mystara-digest Sunday, March 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 117 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Orient - so when did the Mystaran Papacy establish itself? Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent Names Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent Names Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar [MYSTARA] - MOrient Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - MOrient Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread: Floating Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Language [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:43:57 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Orient - so when did the Mystaran Papacy establish itself? > > > > > Anyone can join and participate in the various "projects" if they are > > interested (except loud prima-donnas like yours truely). > > > Grrrr. . .it just occured to me that the above might be taken the wrong > way. When I said "yours truely" I was, of course, refering to myself. Man- don't worry..! :) it's all happy round here... we're not on ADND-L... :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:45:29 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent Names > To be accurate, Thyatian names ought to be derived more from ancient Greek > than Latin, since Thyatis was intended to be inspired from Byzantium. > > I don't recall exactly how these names came about. I *think* Aaron Allston > came up with Davania, Skothar, and all the continent names in the HW; and I > came up with Brun. (It's been awhile...) :o) > > Bruce Heard Until the printing presses of Europe churned out maps, there were always many names, sometimes very beautiful and poetical ones, for all the parts of Earth... might be just as cool to have many names for places rather than just one - similar to the whole 'Pongo' 'Jengu' 'Nihon' 'Japan' situation on earth... :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 19:47:21 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names > >Skothar could be named for a star, in the same way America (al'Mereq) > >was... doesn't establish what language that is in though yet. > > Off-topic, but I thought America was named for Amerigo Vespucci, who > explored or "found" (whatever) the mainland. > > Jenn No... that was late piece of deduction that was widely disseminated circa 1500 after Vespucci's trip of the 1490s. It wouldn't explain why the western or hesperidean continent was known as Merec, Amarec, Merekh or Al-Mereq as early as 1350 and certainly by 1480... [way off-topic so I am stopping there, this is a whole different list (pos)] - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 06:19:36 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent Names In a message dated 05/03/99 22:28:37 GMT, you write: > I don't recall exactly how these names came about. I *think* Aaron Allston > came up with Davania, Skothar, and all the continent names in the HW; and I > came up with Brun. (It's been awhile...) :o) > > Bruce Heard So, If I may ask, who came up with the HW continent names? Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 06:36:00 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar In a message dated 06/03/99 04:22:29 GMT, you write: << How about calling them "Ar-ans" or "Ar-ens"? Sounds pretty good to me! >> Or perhaps "Arkans"? Fairly appropriate since a) Haldemar lives there (unless my memory fails me) and b) Ar himself is now, as an Immortal, called "PalartARKAN". Just a thought... Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 10:04:58 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar That's a good suggestion, given Sharon's message about the Arans of the Isle of Dawn! CQuaif@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 06/03/99 04:22:29 GMT, you write: > > << How about calling them "Ar-ans" or "Ar-ens"? Sounds pretty good to me! >> > > Or perhaps "Arkans"? Fairly appropriate since a) Haldemar lives there (unless > my memory fails me) and b) Ar himself is now, as an Immortal, called > "PalartARKAN". > > Just a thought... > > Carl Q. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Mar 1999 08:39:10 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MOrient Sharon wrote: >Nice name ... and I love Jenn's idea of having >Oriental dragons on the throne! Can't wait to hear >how -- or if -- those are related to the "Western" >versions from the NoD, BTW. Umm...I think you mean *Jenni*, not Jenn! :-) Jenn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 16:24:31 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names In a message dated 3/6/99 3:51:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, geckoes@ozemail.com.au writes: << Off-topic, but I thought America was named for Amerigo Vespucci, who > explored or "found" (whatever) the mainland. > > Jenn No... that was late piece of deduction that was widely disseminated circa 1500 after Vespucci's trip of the 1490s. It wouldn't explain why the western or hesperidean continent was known as Merec, Amarec, Merekh or Al-Mereq as early as 1350 and certainly by 1480... [way off-topic so I am stopping there, this is a whole different list (pos)] >> Actually, I thought Eric the Red was the first to actually set foot on North America, waaay before any "modern" europeans did. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:22:39 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar >That's a good suggestion, given Sharon's message about the Arans of the >Isle of >Dawn! Actually, "Aran" is the name of the city. "Aranea" is the racial name of the planar/giant spider hybrids who originated from there, but have since spread all over the planet. Since the ruined web-city's incredible antiquity (it preceded Herath's founding) and its location on the IoD (original home of the Alasiyans; present site of Thothia) clearly link it to the ancient Middle East, I think of the inhabitants of Old Aran -- and of a HM aranea city of the same name -- as "Aranites". In fact, maybe that's what we should do for the people of Floating Ar: give 'em a name that's got a different suffix from "-an" or "-ian". Arils...? Arytes...? Arese...? Arii...? Something like that. [Is it just me, or do others also think there's a ridiculous number of races/cultures/nationalities on the planet Mystara, whose names begin with "A"...? I mean, it's like half the Mystaran population wanted to be listed early in the phone book's Yellow Pages! :-D] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 18:25:57 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - MOrient >Sharon wrote: > >>Nice name ... and I love Jenn's idea of having >Oriental dragons on the >throne! Can't wait to hear >how -- or if -- those are related to the >"Western" >versions from the NoD, BTW. > >Umm...I think you mean *Jenni*, not Jenn! :-) > >Jenn DOH! I'd forgotten that Jenni was back among us. How embarassing.... :-/ My apologies, Jenn & Jenni ... I'm sure that, IRL, you don't look anything alike! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 11:59:51 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names > << Off-topic, but I thought America was named for Amerigo Vespucci, who > > explored or "found" (whatever) the mainland. > > > > Jenn > > No... that was late piece of deduction that was widely disseminated circa > 1500 after Vespucci's trip of the 1490s. It wouldn't explain why the > western or hesperidean continent was known as Merec, Amarec, Merekh or > Al-Mereq as early as 1350 and certainly by 1480... > [way off-topic so I am stopping there, this is a whole different list > (pos)] >> > > Actually, I thought Eric the Red was the first to actually set foot on North > America, waaay before any "modern" europeans did. He well may have. But he didn't build a chapel in scotland with carvings of maize and aloe on its arches, completed by 1460... Presumably there were many people who visited America before its official discovery / annexation. To put this somewhat back on topic, one could have similar 'secret history' on Mystara - previously unknown remains indicating earlier presences by various cultures on remote coastlines, etc. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 02:16:12 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar > [Is it just me, or do others also think there's a ridiculous number of > races/cultures/nationalities on the planet Mystara, whose names begin with > "A"...? I mean, it's like half the Mystaran population wanted to be listed > early in the phone book's Yellow Pages! :-D] It is funny, but in RW Old Indian ARYA means "the people"; perhaps this A+something racial names come from a Proto-Mystaran world language? ;-) ...just continuing with the linguistic blues... Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 21:24:40 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Continent names In a message dated 99-03-05 08:59:24 EST, you write: << Anyone wondered where the names "Brun", "Davania", and "Skothar" originated? Do you think they were derivations of old Blackmoorian words (as Blackmoor was a world power)? Or something else? Geoff >> "Brun", IIRC, was a region or land of Britain during the time of King Arthur of legend; I am not certain about the RW origins of "Davania" and "Skothar". I must say that I have often wondered about "Davania" and whether it is somehow related to David Cook, one of the writers of X1 and one of the original developers of the Known World... As to the Mystaran origins of the names, I always presumed that they were Traldar/Milenian in origin, adopted for use by the Thyatians, who are (IMC at least) the Milenian/Antalian tribe of the Three Tribes. Here's a bit of mythological origins on the two continents of primary interest in the Known World... Brun: Brunus was a Titan, leader of a group of evil Titans that thought they could challenge the Immortals. They stormed Mount Tarsus and battled the Twelve. The earth shook and split beneath the mighty battle; the Old Lands sank beneath the waves. Eventually, all that remained was Mount Tarsus. The Twelve defeated the titans, and cast them down into the sea, where their bodies formed the isles of the Sea of Dread. The mightiest of all, Brunus, was cast at the feet of Mount Tarsus, where his body formed the greatest land of all. And thus is the home-continent of the Traldar known as Brun. [Elements of the Taymoran Cataclysm influenced this story]. Davania: When Traldar explorers first "discovered" the Southern Continent (circa 1200 BC) it was inhabited by wild tribes [descendants of various slaves of the Serpentine Empire, which ruled in decadence south and east of the region explored by the Traldar]. An ancient city lay on the shore of the Southern Continent, ruled by an Immortal Queen known as Davania [she was actually an ancient Taymoran Necromancer-Queen]. This Queen fell in love with the explorer that discovered her city, which was a terrible crime in the eyes of her people and her Immortal; a crime for which she died. There were great batles against terrible creatures, and the Great Hero (whose name varied depending on the tale the city was told in) defeated them all, save for a tiny scorpion that escaped his notice. This scorpion, a Messenger of the Immortals, slew the Immortal Queen with the merest prick of it's stinger, and she died in the hero's arms. He burned the city, and it's people, and vowed never to return to the Southern Continent, which he then named Davania in her honor... [based on the true adventures of a Traldar Hero] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 12:05:46 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Day of Dread: Floating Ar >the ramifications. I can think of three possibilities: > > 1) Each year they get a little closer to the ground. After an unknown >number of years, eventually they will land (or crash "softly"). > I have another opinion. Let's say an Inmortal was involved in the uprising ;-) of floating Ar. If the Ar-dudes has been faithful to them (why not?), then this Inmortal fixes the altitude problem every Nuwmont the 1st (new year celebrations maybe?). OTOH, due to the chaotic nature of the Ar-dudes and their king, it *may* be possible that they *don't * worship their Inmortal patron properly, whether because of foolish pride or plain ignorance ("hey, we've always been floating, and always will!"). Just my .02 pesos. BTW, I'm not a DM, so if the above paragraph it's non-canon or whatever, please apologise. Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:22:23 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery >Hi Mr. Yager! Hi Dr Hell-man! >> I was wondering... does anyone of you use the *real* weapon mastery rules? >I usually use them to a large extent. The to-hit and damage rules are >used, and some of the extras (like the dagger double damage bonus or bow >range changes). Against higher level monsters, these are needed to keep >fighters and thieves "competitive" in a campaign with any serious amount >of fighting (not necessarily [sp?] hack-n-slash). Some of the extras, >like the AC bonuses, disarming, deflecting, etc. are rarely, if ever, used >in campaigns I'm involved with. These are just too far over-the-top. > Hmmmmm, let me tell you of last night. We -a 14th level mage, two 18th-level fighters, a 20th-level cleric and me, a 9F-level halfling- managed to wipe out one Huge Green Dragon (who was raised fully twice), four Large Black Dragons, and yet another Huge Red Dragon who used haste, mirror image, fireball *and* a meteor swarm on us. With a little help of haste and a very low thaco, one of the fighters blew the Green away IN ONE ROUND. That was 72 points of damage, using your basic long sword! (d8+hell-lot-of-pluses). Plus, I managed to inflict (obviously I was on speed too) a whopping 50 points! (1) Our DM threw us everything he could, and we beat 'em. And we didn't use the weapon mastery rules... just the ones I proposed. :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia (1) As you see, I love my character. 8-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:24:38 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery But a 20th level fighter *can* hit a Mech (twice), while a puny 5th level doesn't even scratch it. :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia Jeff wrote: >Yeah, it bothered me more (before the Master Set came out) how a 20th level >character does the exact same damage as a greenhorn. > >Geoff Gander wrote: > >> Bungo wrote: >> >> >I was wondering... does anyone of you use the *real* weapon mastery rules? >> >We (our group) think they do ridicously high amounts of damage, so we came >> >up with something different. It's pretty simple, but it's been playtested >> >for a while now (5 years more or less), so I can tell you it works. >> >> >> >> This is one way to do it. To tell you the truth, my group uses the Weapon >> Mastery rules "as is", and we've never found that the damage is too high. >> Of course, I also use Weapon Mastery for intelligent monsters, so that >> evens out the balance a bit, as per the Rc... >> >> Geoff >> >> -- >> Geoff Gander, BA 97 >> Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >> Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog >> au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:27:01 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery I say forget the special defenses like deflect, and translate everything to pluses. It's more simple... and that's what oD&D it's all about, right? Bungo Cervezarrubia - -----Original Message----- From: Agathokles To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Lunes 1 de Marzo de 1999 07:03 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapon mastery > > >On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > >> Bungo wrote: >> >> >I was wondering... does anyone of you use the *real* weapon mastery rules? >> >We (our group) think they do ridicously high amounts of damage, so we came >> >up with something different. It's pretty simple, but it's been playtested >> >for a while now (5 years more or less), so I can tell you it works. >> >> >> >> This is one way to do it. To tell you the truth, my group uses the Weapon >> Mastery rules "as is", and we've never found that the damage is too high. >> Of course, I also use Weapon Mastery for intelligent monsters, so that >> evens out the balance a bit, as per the Rc... >> >> Geoff >> > >I used Weapon Mastery when I was playing oD&D, but when I tried to play >the duel with the avengers in CM1, it took hours! No one was able to >score an hit, as all blows were deflected. I think that Weapon Mastery >works well for low-level characters (1st to 9th level), but not for >Companion level campaigns. > > Giampaolo Agosta > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:31:30 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? > Then in D&D and AD&D skills were introduced, mainly for things it was nice >to have mechanics for, layed out and described. Now there are skills for >everything, and subskills for all of that (Ettiquitte {Getting along with >Grandma} cha), and if you don't have the skill you're penalized in effect. > Things are getting out of hand. If I wanted to play RUNEQUEST or DANGEROUS >JOURNEYS, that's what I'd play. > Abosolutely. I've always said that I play D&D just because it's the only game when you can nail donw a skeleton with your trusty crossbow. :-) If I want detail and a 'real life system' I go play Runequest, which I think it's the best system around... since 1978. Also since 1978 it's the incredible crappy world. :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:41:45 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Language I'd recommend you the appendices to The Silmarillion. They include a full list of elven names and words too!. And since Alfheim names were shamelessly *inspired* on JRRT... trust me, you couldn't do better. Bungo Cervezarrubia - -----Original Message----- From: Jennifer Favia To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Viernes 5 de Marzo de 1999 14:35 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elven Language > >Excellent work so far, Jonathan! > >I am making up some elven words as well, mainly clan >names for my expanded Elven Clans of Mystara. I will >certainly use your work as a point of reference! > >Jenn > > >Explore Dark Myst Manor! > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:47:47 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Aaaaaaaargh! How could the guys who wrote the Alfheim GAZ do that to Mr Tolkien!!!! The elf tongue has been warped, twisted and manipulated to fill the needs of these people! It's really disappointing, considering the excellent work found on any other Gaz. And yes, I'm a big Tolkien fan. :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 04:48:34 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar >How about calling them "Ar-ans" or "Ar-ens"? Sounds pretty good to me! > Why not the Ars! :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 16:50:50 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics [This train of thought begun on my mail with Ohad Shaham, who invented the poetically beautiful spells like Brannart's Well Kept Secret and Innocenti's Bells of Warning, so try to keep on my track.] I like to treat Alphatian Magic as monumental and massive ritualistic art and science -- Genevieve's Emotional Terrain sounds Alphatian-like to me. IMC I declared that extensive study and optimization allows a spell to be cast on lower levels. For example, the very basic Fireball is greatly optimized by generations of magic-use, and if a PC would research a spell of equal effect, it would be lvl 5 or something. (It is overpowered spell IMHO) Alphatians have three vast advantages over Glantrians. 1. Alphatians research magic collectively. As Glantrian mages fight against one another and bicker for their spells and restrict magic teaching mostly to the Great School, Alphatians are like free scholars trading their science publicly. Though everyone has their own special spells, the prestige for publishing journals of arcane science and releasing a spectacular (high-level) spell is so great, that even the masters do it. 2. Alphatia is huge. There are millions of people more than in Glantri. Though there are a greater proportion of mages in Glantri, in Alphatia there are masses and masses of mages, whom are respectively richer. As slaves and lower castes do the menial labour and fighting and that, the true aristocrats eat grapes and master their art. 3. Alphatia is old. Therefore Alphatia is practically filled with ancient texts and grimoires full of miracles for the daring who dare to open the ancient books. But, for example, the dynasties (the Imperial dynasty, but also the royal families of the kingdoms) often hold their books accessible to their heirs -- the rightful heir of Eriadna (Zandor, that is) would not be blown up by her grimoire's wardings, though anyone else would. This brings me to the metaphysics of High Magic. This is little like the idea of Alphatian Air Wizards someone brought up. Low Magic -- Spells making certain single effects. ESP, Meteor Swarm, Force Field, Statue, Animate Dead, Geas (Meta Magic -- Spells targeted on magic). Middle Magic -- Spells tapping their power from metaphysical forces and artifact sources. Power Words, Discharge, Transcend Life Force, Call Upon Radiance High Magic -- Spells with free effects or monumental specific effects. Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Cantrip, Wish, Mylsibis's Arcane Contention, Duel Shield, Sleep Curse Rule of thumb: Every spell is Low Magic (or it's subclass Meta Magic) unless it taps it's power from some extraordinary source, or creates a free effect, or creates a truly monumental effect or an effect surpassing the limits of magic. Now the catch is, that Glantrians are experts and masters of low magic. The Seven Secret Crafts would be strongly despised by Alphatian Masters, for they are even lower magic, very restricted in effects and their powers are comparatively weak even in their zenith. Most Glantrians practice low magic for they don't know of better, as even the strongest Glantrians focus on the greatly-hush-hush Radiance Magic, which is 'just' Middle Magic. Alphatian masters, however, consider Low Magic only a step to High Magic, and in the end they research a new spell for every effect they want to take place in their Kingdom, casting it once and being happy. Ar spent centuries to refine a High-Magic spell to make his kingdom float - -- High Magic is the right path for a Paragon. Creating TRULY unique Magic Items, transforming lands, and teaching apprentices so they really learn things to the level 12 and stay alive after that making deeds that honor their master. Glantrians are petty magicians bickering on the secrets in their lust of power, Alphatian arch-magi know that masters come from patience, ambition and deep pondering on the greatest mysteries of magic. Game Mechanics. Low Magic costs 1000dc/level to research and takes 7 days plus a day per level to research, giving 1500xp/level experience (new spell, ordinary spell gives only 1000xp/lvl). Middle Magic can be researched only by name-level Wizards. It costs double or triple, and takes double or triple time. That is 2000-3000dc/lvl, 2*(7+lvl) to 3*(7+lvl) days. Chances of success are halved -- however, Middle Magic gives the diligent researcher quadruple or even quintuple experience. High Magic can be researched only by master wizards (20+ levels). It costs five times as much money, and takes ten times longer time. That is 5000dc/lvl, and 10*(7+lvl) days. Chances of success are only one-third the normal. NOTHING says that High Magic would be more effective than Middle or Low Magic. Sleep is far stronger than Cantrip, and ignorant mages consider Disjunction more a problem than show of genuity. Specifically designed High Magics can cross boundaries of magic (like Wish and Disjunction do), but there often is a price (like Disjunction has). They are often non-dispellable or non-counterable, and have weird conditions of use (Sleep Curse) or material components. But who dares to laugh when Alphatian Master turns his companions to huge gold dragons -- permanently? Power comes to the patient. - Markus Montola -- I might develop this further, if you folks like it. P.S. IMC the best way for a mortal to kill an immortal is Discharge. I generally treat the Radiance spells mortal, but their _effects_ immortal magic. Thus you can't cast Discharge within Anti-Magic Shell, but if you are outside, you can cast the spell and call the immortal power which blasts even inside the shell. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #117 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 118 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses [MYSTARA] - malachie Re: [MYSTARA] - malachie [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - malachie Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [MYSTARA] - Duross, updated (longish) [MYSTARA] - Post Blackmoorian Character Class [MYSTARA] - My take on Blackmoor (Post Cataclysm) Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 17:02:27 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses In addition to basic courses Linguistics Conjure Companion Spell Combination Quick Casting Mandragora Science Agility Training Spellflash following courses are open IMC for *graduated* students Specialization - Student may choose his area of specialization (agreed by DM). His research costs on the field of expertise are cutted down by a quarter. Basics of Construction - Student is taught to create simpler constructions, though the prices are high (and mostly explained in the monster descriptions). The caster must still research the formulas for every creature specifically. Advanced Construction - More complicated constructions (say, 8+ HD or a couple of asterisks) are taught to create. Spell Identification - An Int check tells mage instantaneously which spell his opponent is casting, but the mage must know the spell also. Magical Analysis - As I have disallowed Analyse and Identify IMC, this course is useful. Researching properties of a magical item costs 100dc per level of spell in the item. Monster Lore - Int-check tells the magical properties of any monster encountered by the mage, but this may be modified if the creature is not magically interesting (gnoll) or is exotic or unique. Necrology - Monster-lore for Undead. Cosmology - Basics of planar metaphysics. Allows spell research on planar effects. Enchantment - Unless the caster takes the enchantment course, his enchantment costs are one quarter higher than described in Gaz3. One may be chosen for each level, and they cost one ducat per day until the mage gets a level. More ideas? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 18:46:06 +0100 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - malachie Not-so-long-ago, I asked about more information on malachie du marais. My players were just going to meet him in the module X2, where he is loosely described and much less powered than in the other supplements. I was just thinking to share with you the -somewhat different- way my players choosed to follow, once that Malachie was returned by me to his real, powerful status. In the module X2 players are supposed to go and kill malachie, a M10/werewolf with no firther description, supposed to have all the stats at mean value. I put the canon stats instead, while supposing that, during X2, Malachie is still a level NM werewolf. The result was almost to double his hps, and to power him a lot in all his attacks. Another little change I made was in the magical square in the cellar of the Castle of Amber. One of the demons is supposed to turn the player into a werewolf, 'under the control of the DM'. I used PC4 rules instead, and cheated a bit so that one of my player, a long-term wolf fans that had his degree thesis on wolf population, got the transformation, becoming a werewolf cub. You should have seen his smile when I told him what happened. :))) Now, while the group was looking for the castle of Sylaire (little lost in the forest) this player got his second transformation. He failed the alignmen control, and run away, losing the group. There, he (actually, the character is a she) was found by Malachie in werewolf form and his pack. Malachie told her what happened (I used the werewolf introduction in PC4), and started to teach her how to master the transformation. The remnant of the group, since they were not able to locate the cleric anymore, found Sylaire and asked for the sword they were looking for to Sephora. Then, in agreement with the module, Sephora asked her for the skin of the white werewolf. At this point, the module assumes that Sephora is much too powerful for the group. I powered her just a bit by giving her 2 level 8 male bodyguard, under charm by the sorceress. Luckily, only 2 of my players are human males, and succeeded to resist the charm of Sephora. The elf strongly refused to be the killer of anyone... so they faked to agree, and went out looking for Malachie. The "canon" Malachie had no problems at all in catching a level 5 group looking for him in the forest. A stone wall was enough to block them while he asked what they wanted to do. To make it short, once they found their cleric friend of malachie, the group agreed to trap Sephora. They went back with a frog polymorphed into a white wolf, gagged and tied, out of the tower. Filled with rage by seeing her long-term enemy, Sephora went out of the tower together with their bodyguards, ready to kill the wolf. The problem of high-level mages is that they still have few hps, and if attacked by surprise.... well, she lost initiative for 2 rounds. The 2 bodyguards made something, but Malachie, my werewolf player and their pack engaged them... In the end, when they searched the tower, I added the "Emotional Landscapes" scroll that I have seen on the list. A nice touch, which they loved. :) Congratulations to the authors. Since things went fairly differently from how they was supposed to do, I had to improvixze a lot. I always feel uneasy when I expand in unknown regions, so I would like to know if any of you have some comments on how thigs went (what do you disliked, or liked; what you feel was "wrong", i.e. strongly unrealistic. - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:01:58 -0000 From: "Paul Holroyd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - malachie It really is a tough module if you follow the suggested guidelines. My players were at half-strength before they even left the west wing! Great module, though. I especially liked the dungeon and the 'colour' rooms. Good fun. Hoddie - -----Original Message----- From: Ezio Pignatelli To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: 07 March 1999 17:57 Subject: [MYSTARA] - malachie >Not-so-long-ago, I asked about more information on malachie du marais. >My players were just going to meet him in the module X2, where he is >loosely described and much less powered than in the other supplements. >I was just thinking to share with you the -somewhat different- way >my players choosed to follow, once that Malachie was returned by me to >his real, powerful status. > >In the module X2 players are supposed to go and kill malachie, a >M10/werewolf with no firther description, supposed to have all the stats >at mean value. I put the canon stats instead, while supposing that, >during X2, Malachie is still a level NM werewolf. The result was almost >to double his hps, and to power him a lot in all his attacks. > >Another little change I made was in the magical square in the cellar of >the Castle of Amber. One of the demons is supposed to turn the player >into a werewolf, 'under the control of the DM'. I used PC4 rules >instead, and cheated a bit so that one of my player, a long-term wolf >fans that had his degree thesis on wolf population, got the >transformation, becoming a werewolf cub. You should have seen his smile >when I told him what happened. :))) > >Now, while the group was looking for the castle of Sylaire (little lost >in the forest) this player got his second transformation. He failed the >alignmen control, and run away, losing the group. There, he (actually, >the character is a she) was found by Malachie in werewolf form and his >pack. Malachie told her what happened (I used the werewolf introduction >in PC4), and started to teach her how to master the transformation. > >The remnant of the group, since they were not able to locate the >cleric anymore, found Sylaire and asked for the sword they were looking >for to Sephora. Then, in agreement with the module, Sephora asked her >for the skin of the white werewolf. > >At this point, the module assumes that Sephora is much too powerful for >the group. I powered her just a bit by giving her 2 level 8 male >bodyguard, under charm by the sorceress. > >Luckily, only 2 of my players are human males, and succeeded to resist >the charm of Sephora. The elf strongly refused to be the killer of >anyone... so they faked to agree, and went out looking for Malachie. > >The "canon" Malachie had no problems at all in catching a level 5 group >looking for him in the forest. A stone wall was enough to block them >while he asked what they wanted to do. > >To make it short, once they found their cleric friend of malachie, the >group agreed to trap Sephora. They went back with >a frog polymorphed into a white wolf, gagged and tied, out of the tower. >Filled with rage by seeing her long-term enemy, Sephora went out of the >tower together with their bodyguards, ready to kill the wolf. > >The problem of high-level mages is that they still have few hps, and if >attacked by surprise.... well, she lost initiative for 2 rounds. The 2 >bodyguards made something, but Malachie, my werewolf player and their >pack engaged them... > >In the end, when they searched the tower, I added the >"Emotional Landscapes" scroll that I have seen on the list. >A nice touch, which they loved. :) Congratulations to the authors. > >Since things went fairly differently from how they was supposed to do, I >had to improvixze a lot. I always feel uneasy when >I expand in unknown regions, so I would like to know if any of you have >some comments on how thigs went (what do you disliked, or liked; what >you feel was "wrong", i.e. strongly unrealistic. > >-- >Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova >Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 >mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat >-- >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 15:29:12 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents When portraying demihumans, does anyone out there (as a DM) use accents. I know some of you do so for various human nations, but I was wondering how many of us do the same for demihumans? Myself, I tend to have gnomes speak with a rich Newfoundlander accent: "Gedday there, b'y! 'Ow kin oi be o' service to ye? Would ye loike some noice, fresh fruits 'n' veg, fresh aout o' me own garden?" My players loved this when I did it on the fly once, and it stuck. Dwarves IMC seem to end up with slightly Scottish brogues, and a couple of hin my party encountered had slight Irish lilts. I usually have elves speak in a slightly formal British accent - showing how (IMC, at any rate) elves find themselves more refined than those grubby humans. ;-) Of course, dialects could be wildly different when meeting demihumans from other parts of Mystara. Just wondering if other people did the same in their own campaigns, and if so, what did they do? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 15:36:40 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - malachie In response to your question: I liked what you did with the module. Any result that the players like and where they stay true to character is a good result, in my book. I don't happen to have the module in question, but tinkering is always appropriate when you don't like the printed stuff. You bought it, but that doesn't mean the story has to go as printed. Congratulate your players on a job well done, and maybe an experience point bonus for a novel solution. Now Malachie will know them, and perhaps they have a new ally in Glantri. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 15:39:31 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > When portraying demihumans, does anyone out there (as a DM) use accents. > I know some of you do so for various human nations, but I was wondering > how many of us do the same for demihumans? I suppose I should actually take notes on what accents I use for what demihumans, since I really don't remember and am probably not holding to continuity (bad form, I know). Normally, I just use something that sounds appropriate for the intelligence level of the NPC, and something that will distinguish it from my normal mode of speech. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 20:14:02 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Dwarves have a scottish flavor, gnomes an irish (I prefer the "friends of nature" type of gnomes over the "tinker" style...I think of them as the true "wee folk" of legends)...elves are aristocratic "holier than thou" attitudes due to their being the "firstborn and chosen" of all intelligent life created by the gods I know that these aren't the "official" mystaran attitudes or cultures but they work well for me One Eye *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:55:37 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents I don't usually use accents for demihumans, unless (as with the Belcadiz) they're supposed to have them for cultural reasons. Their facial and throat structures are so similar to those of humans, that I take it for granted they've got similar voices ... although oddities, like a lady dwarf who sings bass, do crop up from time to time. OTOH, for truly exotic races like lizardkin -- hissing lisps -- or giants - -- bellow my head off, even for a whisper :-) -- I'll use vocal gimmicks that reflect their size and/or inhuman anatomy. It's hard to speak "normally" if you've got no lips, for example. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 01:44:07 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Duross, updated (longish) Good morn' to all of ye! Recent events have made mine free time very scant. I've spent weeks travelling across Skothar, searching for a few magical tidbits for an upcoming quest. My patron hath visted me yestereve and set down the path of my near future: to explore the ancient Tomb of a wizard. This, she said, would begin a quest as grand as any that few others have seen in recent decades. She also hinted that my personal vengeance would finally come to fruition, or at least the chance should I survive. I don't know what a tomb has to do with my captured wife, but I am not one to question the ways of Valerias. I feel a renewed surge of energy with this new direction my life hath taken. I write this while in my home gathering the few items of power I've saved over the years for this specific quest. My daughter is apprenhensive, but this is nothing new. She worries over the fact that Valerias refuses to answer her communes over whether I will return to her again. I tell her before every quest I take that we make their own fortunes, no matter what the will of those of a higher station desire. Ah, and as well, I leave in the evening with companions I've gathered on the way back: Targus Blackfoot, a Dwarf Warrior; Annabelle Rothbridge, a Human Cleric of Vanya; Uldras the Wanderer, a Mage and Gervus the Hairfoot, a Halfling Warrior. They know we're seeking an ancient Tomb, but nothing more. I'll fill them in later, if need be. One last thing before I lay down for some rest; my blade hath finally revealed itself fully to me! Some months ago I detailed for all of ye what I knew of it, now I shall reveal the rest. Duross, Silver Sword +3, +5 vs Other Planar Creatures (1d8+3/1d8+5 vs OPC) Duross is a normal sized sword made of the purest silver. Along the blade's length are 2 blood grooves and a pattern of ancient runes inlaid with gold that spell the blade's name. The pommel appears to be a demonic clawed hand grasping a blood stone worth 1,000 gold. I've managed to better place it's date of enchantment closer to 400 B.C. Apparently, it was created in the Land of the Red Sun by a Nithian who was comissioned by an Oltec adventurer having problems with an Azcan Cleric that had a few planar creatures as servants. How it ended up where I found it remains a mystery, but Duross itself confirmed that it was there for many centuries. The sword has several special abilities listed below, but the most important is the fact that this weapon is of Artifact quality! I know not how a mortal human did this feat, but mayhaps he had the help of an unknown power. It constantly Detects Danger 15' radius (as the Druid spell) and grants it's user the ability to Read Languages and Magic (as the Magic-user spells). Against other-planar creatures it inflicts 4x the normal damage (dice damage only, count modifiers after) on evil other-planar creatures. Duross is an intelligent (12) weapon with a strong ego (24). It hates fiends of all kinds and as can be surmised will try to have it's wielder destroy any it comes across unless the wielder has a plan already in motion for the same purpose. The sword is flexible and tries to not put a worthy wielder in a make or break situation if it can help it. (It remembers all the time it spent trapped on a plane in the lair of an evil creature after its wielder died.) It speaks Nithian, Milenian, Traldar, Dwarf (common), Elf (common), Oltec and Tanagoro. Duross is Chaotic (good) that will inflict 2d12 points of damage upon any evil creature trying to wield it and force a Saving Throw versus Paralysis or paralyse the creature for 1d6 rounds. There ye have it, the details I know of this wonder of past ages. I feel weary now, so I shall rest and begin my newest adventure after I rise. With luck, and more than a little skill of mine companions and myself, I'll return to give all of ye details of what we've found. Till then, safe journeys to all! Arminath Wynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:43:18 -0700 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Post Blackmoorian Character Class Here is some more...sorry for the overdose of technology, but we are talking about Blackmoor after all. (Long post) Please let me know what you think. Cyborg These constructs were once completely biological beings. Now they have enhancing technological/mechanical devices integrated into their bodies. These machines can confer enhanced abilities, however in many cases these machines are required for the continued existence of the cyborg. Most cyborgs start their careers as normal, fully biological, individuals. At some point in their lifetime, these individuals have a serious accident. The only way to prevent their death is to enhance their bodies with techno-mantic machinery. Some individuals actually volunteer for these enhancements. Cyborg enhancements take proficiency slots. If no slots are available during the initial process of construction, then one proficiency must be sacrificed. This sacrifice represents the disruption that cyborg implants cause in their host, either mental (for knowledge based proficiencies) or physical (for physical proficiencies). Cyborgs also suffer an additional, and permanent, loss of -1 to their Charisma for each proficiency slot filled with a cybernetic enhancement. The DM may wish to require that multiple slots be spent on the initial cybernetic enhancements, especially for those individuals who are severely damaged. Other cybernetic enhancements may be added when proficiency slots become available. These enhancements are not needed to maintain the life span of the cyborg, in fact the cyborg need never add enhancements after the initial procedure is done. Race and character class are not necessarily affected by cybernetic enhancements. The decision should be up to the DM. For example, if a character with infravision has his head damaged, then it is quite possible that the initial cybernetic enhancements could cause the loss of that ability. Of course it would be possible for that character to add cybernetic eyes which confer infravision, at the cost of a proficiency slot. There are drawbacks to cybernetic enhancements. The cybernetics need a power source in order to function. It is possible for cyborgs to store power internally, but even so they must recharge themselves periodically. If a cyborgs implants cease to function for any reason (including running out of power) that cyborg will die. For this reason cyborgs tend to stay relatively close to available power sources. Most often this means staying near the Chamber of some techno-mage willing to share its power. Cyborg implants: Ability Enhancement - For each proficiency slot spent (up to a maximum of 3) one ability score can be raised by one point. Strength, Dexterity, and Intelligence can be raised in this manner. Racial Characteristic - For each proficiency slot spent (up to a maximum of 3) one racial characteristic can be gained (infravision, improved sight, hearing, or smelling, the ability to detect traps, secret doors, or invisibility, etc) Saving Throw Improvements - For each proficiency slot spent (up to a maximum of 3) one saving throw can be improved by one point. Cosmetics - For each proficiency slot spent, Charisma can be raised by one point. This is the only enhancement that does not cost the cyborg a loss in Charisma. Magical Power - The cyborg gains the ability to reproduce one spell effect. Once the spell effect is chosen, it cannot be changed. The number of proficiency slots spent is equal to the level of the spell effect gained. Thus, spending one slot will allow the cyborg to gain a first level spell ability, while three slots allow the cyborg to gain a third level spell. These implants will only function a certain amount of times per day. Increased Health - This enhancement adds 10 hit points per slot spent (up to a maximum of 3). Charisma lost in this manner cannot be regained with cosmetics. Battery - The cyborg has the ability to store energy for later use. The amount of energy stored depends on the type of battery installed. Without a battery, the cyborg is forced to stay in contact with his power source. Batteries can be interchanged without detriment. [More on power and Batteries later] Cyborgs must have a supply of power in order to survive. There are three ways that they can achieve this. The first way is by establishing a Link with a power source, such as a techno-mage's Chamber. The Link is established by the owner of the power source, and is one way only. The cyborg does not have control over the Link. For the Link to remain open, both the cyborg and the power source must be in the same crystal sphere. The second way for a cyborg to get power is for him to store it internally. For this a battery is needed. Batteries still need to be recharged periodically, so the cyborg still needs to have access to a power supply. The third way is to install a mini-Chamber. These will provide a permanent source of power, but the price they carry is heavy. A mini-Chamber causes the cyborg's flesh to deteriorate. There is a 1% x the cyborg's level, per game year that one of the cyborgs extremities will rot. The cyborg will lose the use of that extremity, and if it is not replaced with cybern etic implants (one proficiency slot must be spent per extremity) then the cyborg must make another roll each month, with the same chances. Batteries are assigned a numerical value to represent how much energy they can store. A battery with a value of 1 can power one cyborg implant for one month when fully charged. Cyborgs can not choose which implants to power and which to not power. Thus a cyborg with two implants needs a battery[3] to stay powered for one month (one point for the initial cybernetics, and one for each of the additional implants). Batteries can be interchanged without detriment, and thus the cyborg can carry extras with him. The higher the value of the battery, the more expensive it will be. John Calvin IBM, San Jose Phone Number (408) 256-7157 Tie Line 276-7157 jtcalvin@us.ibm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 22:40:35 -0700 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - My take on Blackmoor (Post Cataclysm) Hi all, I've been lurking here for several months now, and thought it was time to put my two cents worth in. First of all I'd like to say that I try to keep up with the list, but pleas forgive me if my responses are a little slow...the presures of work and all ;-) Secondly, (and having to do with my writing conventions), being a male, I use hes and hims in my writing. I intend no offense, and hope none is taken. Here is my take on Post Blackmoor...I look forward to your comments. (Long Post) History The Blackmoor civilization was the first civilization to achieve spelljamming status inside of Mystaraspace. They did this by using a unique technology which was magic merged with the science of a race from an alternate plane of existence. The techno-magic was integrated into every aspect of the Blackmoorian's lives. The Blackmoor spelljammers were able to travel great speeds and vast distances without draining their helmsmen of any magic. When the Arcane caught wind of these craft, they were not pleased. They began an intensive program to try and wean the Blackmoorians from their technology, and make them dependent upon Arcane helms. All of their efforts were for naught. The Blackmoorians viewed themselves as the superiors of those who relied purely upon magic. The Blackmoorians viewed Arcane products as sub-standard, and would not buy them. The Arcane became more forceful about insisting that Blackmoor use Arcane goods, and finally Blackmoor expelled all Arcane, and their representatives, from within their borders. The Arcane, angered by this treatment and the refusal of Blackmoor to use Arcane helms, slipped into one of Blackmoor's power storage facilities and tampered with the magical energies contained within. This tampering made the energies unstable, and very volatile. This is what caused the explosion, and the destruction of Blackmoor on Mystara. When the outer colonies in Mystaraspace felt the disturbance caused by the explosion, they rushed back to their home world. To their surprise the immortals themselves were barring their passage. The Blackmoorians suspected that the Arcane had something to do with the disaster, and their clerics relayed this to their respective immortal patrons. The immortals however, would not listen to their pleas. Whether or not the Blackmoorians had caused the explosion was irrelevant, in the eyes of the immortals they were responsible. The Blackmoorian fleets turned to leave Mystaraspace, and vowed to forsake the immortals who had forsaken them, but the immortals were not finished. The immortals could not afford to let an accident like this happen again. They attempted to destroy the Blackmoor fleet. The space fleet was more powerful than even the immortals expected, and a desperate war raged on. Mortal verses immortal. Blackmoorian fleets fought their way out of Mystaraspace and sought refuge in nearby crystal spheres, but the immortals followed them still. In the ensuing battles most of the Blackmoorian fleets were destroyed, along with several immortals. It is rumored that several crystal spheres were also destroyed. In the end the immortals relented, not willing for any more of their rank to fall, and the Blackmoorian fleets escaped to the far reaches of the multiverse. Slowly, over 2000 years, Blackmoor built its civilization back into its former glory. Along the way they have stopped to hunt down every Arcane and immortal or god that they come across. Blackmoor Today The Blackmoor culture is an extremely complex one. There are two main aspects to Blackmoorian culture. They can be divided into those that live in space, and those that live planetside. Blackmoorians in Space Spacefaring culture is centered around the ship, not only because it provides the mode of transport, but because Blackmoorian ships are also the source of their techno-magical powers. Before discussing the social structure of Blackmoorians in space, it is first necessary to discuss their power source. Blackmoorian magic is different from magic used by most other species and cultures in the multiverse. A Blackmoorian techno-mage must draw energy for his spells from an energy store. Blackmoorian ships all have a device which is referred to as a Chamber. This chamber generates and stores vast amounts of magical energy. Although it is possible for a Chamber to 'run dry' if used excessively, this rarely happens due to the enormous amounts of energy which the Chamber holds. Chambers are semi intelligent, and most have a link with a single techno-mage, which allows that mage to use the energy freely. Other techno-mages who attempt to access the Chamber's power, must first wrest control from the linked techno-mage. Non Blackmoorian spell casters can access this power source, but they do so at great risk. Chamber energy is deadly to its wielder. The linked techno-mage is usually the captain of the spelljamming ship, and depending upon his power level may have several subordinates. These subordinates may use the techno-mage's Chamber as a power source, or may have lesser Chambers as power sources of their own. As the techno-mage gains experience, he can actually modify the structure of his Chamber to produce and contain more energy. This is the ultimate goal of every techno-mage. The following table lists techno-mage ranks, and the powers associated with attaining them. Squire :This is the lowest level of techno-mage. These individuals are not linked to their own Chamber, but instead are granted powers by higher ranking techno-mages Knight: Knights are often given control of their own spelljamming ships. However these ships do not have Chambers of their own. They draw their power from a larger mother ship, and thus can never travel far from it. Knight Hunter: A Knight Hunter has proven himself in battle, and is allowed to construct and install a Chamber onto his ship. Although the chamber is a self contained power source, it still maintains links to a more powerful source. Knight Hunters are fully able to set out on their own, but rarely do so unless ordered by their superiors. A Knight Hunter may employ a few Squires. Knight Destroyer: Knight Destroyers have slain super natural beings (Arcane included) and integrated their essences into their Chamber. This has the effect of making the Knight Destroyer less dependent on his former master. The Knight Destroyer still feels a form of loyalty/obedience for his former master, and will often perform certain tasks or quests for him. However a Knight Destroyer is just as likely to be on a mission of his own devising. Knight Destroyers may have several Squires and a few Knights in their employ. Enlightened: One of the Enlightened is a former Knight Destroyer who has killed and integrated one deity or immortal being into his Chamber. After doing so, the Enlightened is physically changed, and is in essence, no longer a mortal being (at least as long as his Chamber is intact and functioning). The Enlightened may take on some attributes of the immortal entity which he has slain. An Enlightened seeks to have techno-mage subordinates, and will never be found without one. An Enlightened may have any of the four previous ranks under his command. Paragon: Paragons are extremely rare entities, and this is fortunate for the deities of the multiverse, for a Paragon has managed to slay more than one god/immortal and integrate it into his Chamber. Paragons function much as one of the Enlightened, however in addition to having subordinate techno-mages, a Paragon may also grant limited clerical abilities to some of his followers. These types of clerics are the only ones which exist in Blackmoorian society. Blackmoorians Planetside Planetside society is a very transient thing. Very few permanent settlements exist (although some do). Most settlements are temporary and are designed to gather resources for their spacefaring brethren. Several unique species of beings exist in Blackmoorian society. These beings are more commonly referred to as automatons or constructs. Although many constructs behave in a manner consistent with constructs throughout the multiverse (in a non intelligent way), many Blackmoorian versions of these creatures are actually sentient. Constructs can not reproduce as such, but sentient constructs do have the ability to create others of their kind if they so choose. Cyborgs: These constructs were once completely biological beings. Now they have enhancing technological/mechanical devices integrated into their bodies. These machines can confer enhanced abilities, however in many cases these machines are required for the continued existence of the cyborg. Androids: These are completely mechanical beings. They are not, nor have they ever been, biological creatures. These entities do not normally need the same kinds of sustenance that mortal beings require (food, water, air), and may function indefinitely without them. Most androids are powered by an energy source, either internal or external. Internal energy sources are most often mini-Chambers. External sources may include Chambers, magical energy, or solar power. Stone Men: Stone men are very much like androids above. They can be powered by internal or external energy sources, and do not require the same resources that biological entities do in order to survive. Stone men are not mechanical in nature however. In appearance the resemble Golems and can be constructed from various stones and metals John Calvin Ijtcalvin@us.ibm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 08:00:22 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >When portraying demihumans, does anyone out there (as a DM) use accents. Oh yes :-) >Myself, I tend to have gnomes speak with a rich Newfoundlander accent: Mmm, I was corrupted by the Warcraft2 gnomes there. "I've got a flying machine!" >Dwarves IMC seem to end up with slightly Scottish brogues, and a couple I think that ones pretty universal. "Awa' wi' you laddie!" >of hin my party encountered had slight Irish lilts. I usually have >elves speak in a slightly formal British accent - showing how (IMC, at any >rate) elves find themselves more refined than those grubby humans. ;-) Hmm. Never gave elves an accent. But rakasta are truly deserving of toff English (Albion StJohn Smythe, rakasta Inheritor, says it all). Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:04:53 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: > Abosolutely. I've always said that I play D&D just because it's the only > game when you can nail donw a skeleton with your trusty crossbow. :-) If I > want detail and a 'real life system' I go play Runequest, which I think it's > the best system around... since 1978. > Also since 1978 it's the incredible crappy world. :-) You are talking about Fantasy Europe or Glorantha here? Anyway, systems that might work with Mystara: SAGA; IMO the best Fantasy system around. It is not a realistic type game like RuneQuest, but focuses on the story. Quick and simple with loads of possiblities and an amazing magic system. Pendragon; A quicker, simpler version of RuneQuest. We have converted all our RQ campaigns into this system cause things tend to be rather slow in the RQ system. Combat takes forever for istance. The downside with this one is that it doesnt have a magic system that works with Mystara. Use the Rune Magic from RQ and Sandys RQ sorcery system which should be available on Web somewhere. GURPS; This is the system I currently use. The mechanics, like those of RQ are a bit slow, but you can create any PC you can imagine. This system also works well if youre planning on doing a Blackmoor campaign. D6; Never tried it in fantasy, but I suppose this should work. Some people even use it in Glorantha. EarthDawn; This could work, but I think the system is too closely connected to the Setting. Håvard PS: I probably wont be checking my email for the next week or so, so if anyone expects replies from me in the near future; sorry, im busy. :) *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #118 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 119 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [MYSTARA] - Davania's name Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics [MYSTARA] - Re: Great School advanced courses Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Orient (LONG) [MYSTARA] - Re: Inhabitants of Ar [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics [MYSTARA] - Re: malachie Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words RE: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff (was: Elf words) RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 11:13:01 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: > How could the guys who wrote the Alfheim GAZ do that to Mr Tolkien!!!! The > elf tongue has been warped, twisted and manipulated to fill the needs of > these people! It's really disappointing, considering the excellent work > found on any other Gaz. I think they were trying to make their own elven-sounding language. Ofcourse, they werent linguists. Also, note that Alfheim is heavily inspired by Wendy and Richard Pinis ElfQuest comics. The names are mainly from norse and celtic sources though. A thought: It might be nice to see some names based on ElfQuests soul names; Lhree, Fahr etc.. > And yes, I'm a big Tolkien fan. :-) Hey, me too. There is a sad thing about Fantasy though; people tend to copy too much of Tolkiens stuff. I have met people who think that the Dragonlance Chronicles are way better than Lord of the Rings. And in a way, maybe that is true; Whats so exciting about a world that has elves, dwarves and halflings? Doesnt every world have those guys these days? And Legolas, an elven archer? Thats such a cliché. :( *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:38:11 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > When portraying demihumans, does anyone out there (as a DM) use accents. > I know some of you do so for various human nations, but I was wondering > how many of us do the same for demihumans? I once used a Yoda-accent (Star Wars, right) for a gnomish gem- dealer, and it has just stuck with my gnomes ever since... Be warned, it's very hard on the throat!! :)) Jacob, Denmark Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 13:02:02 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Davania's name Well, this post doesn't really add anything to the origins of Davania's name (and I liked Mystaros' legend, btw), but it has to do with tongues and wordgames. I recall we were playing a session where one of my PCs wanted to locate a precious diamond of Wishes (2 remaining) that Asterius gave him after WotI. One of the PC's alter-egos, the Evil One (he invented a spell that creates 7 alter-egos identical to him, but I slightly changed it by having each of them characterized by one of his aspects, so there's the Evil One, the Honorable One, the Stupid One, the Dandy one, the Sick one, etc. etc.) stole this item and wished him to be independent from the PC (if the PCs doesn't cast the equivalent of an eighth lvl spell each day they vanish) and identical to him, then got away with the Diamond and with one of the two remaining wishes wished that if he or the PC was killed, the other would have died as well (to prevent repercussions from the PC). So as I was saying, he contacted the Outer Planes and asked "Where is my Diamond of the Wishes?" and the Immortal replied: "IT's in Davania". However, in Italian this sounds a bit like: "It's in Byvania". The guy started looking really puzzled and began to mumble. So I asked him: "What's the problem?" "That drat Immortal must be lying.." "WHy? Why can'it it be in BYvania?" "If it's true, then I'm done! I'll never be able to get it back!" "Uh? why?.. Ahh.. sure, you don't know the place so you cannot teleport there.. but you can still take a boat and.." "What? R u kidding me? What boat can cross planar boundaries?" At this I went completely mad. Only later did I understand: since he didn't know that the southern continent's name was Davania, he thought I had said him the diamond was BY Vanya, in her homeplane!!! Sometimes ignorance can be really amusing... :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:28:50 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics Markus Montola wrote: > P.S. IMC the best way for a mortal to kill an immortal is Discharge. > I generally treat the Radiance spells mortal, but their _effects_ > immortal magic. Thus you can't cast Discharge within Anti-Magic > Shell, but if you are outside, you can cast the spell and call > the immortal power which blasts even inside the shell. That's a pretty wild P.S. !!! Really; mortals shouldn't go around killing immortals. And not just with a single spell...even if it is a Radiance spell. : ] Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:33:50 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Great School advanced courses Hey Markus, I love your ideas; please post more if you got 'em... (: ]) Just don't go around killing off too many immortals, you hear? : ) Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 18:38:20 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR Andrés wrote: >I will start my description of the Five Paths of Old Alphatian Magick (and >I will try to be concise): > >GENERAL GAME RULES> [mega snip] How do these paths relate to the Paths to Inmortality? Are you saying that a 30-odd level Thelemic can only follow the Path of Thought? It'd make perfect sense, I guess. Bungo Cervezarrubia. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:49:29 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses >Magical Analysis - As I have disallowed Analyse and Identify IMC, this Hmmm, that's cool you know. But then again, how do your PCs identify their stuff? Do the have to use their new items until they finally comprehend their powers? Or do they have to go on a quest or something? Doesn't it make your PCs mad? Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 09:59:17 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents One of my fellow PCs is a DM too (AD&D 1st) and he does use demihuman accents, but keep in mind that we play in Spanish! :-) So the dwarves speak with a strong german accent, and the halflings speak like Don Vito Corleone in the movie The Godfather, and -of course- they eat only pasta and drink red wine. :-) What about the elves? Well, in this DM's world, there are none! :))))))) Oh joy oh joy! Bungo Cervezarrubia Geoff wrote: >When portraying demihumans, does anyone out there (as a DM) use accents. >I know some of you do so for various human nations, but I was wondering >how many of us do the same for demihumans? > >Myself, I tend to have gnomes speak with a rich Newfoundlander accent: > >"Gedday there, b'y! 'Ow kin oi be o' service to ye? Would ye loike some >noice, fresh fruits 'n' veg, fresh aout o' me own garden?" > >My players loved this when I did it on the fly once, and it stuck. > >Dwarves IMC seem to end up with slightly Scottish brogues, and a couple >of hin my party encountered had slight Irish lilts. I usually have >elves speak in a slightly formal British accent - showing how (IMC, at any >rate) elves find themselves more refined than those grubby humans. ;-) > >Of course, dialects could be wildly different when meeting demihumans from >other parts of Mystara. Just wondering if other people did the same in >their own campaigns, and if so, what did they do? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:19:45 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? >> Abosolutely. I've always said that I play D&D just because it's the only >> game when you can nail donw a skeleton with your trusty crossbow. :-) If I >> want detail and a 'real life system' I go play Runequest, which I think it's >> the best system around... since 1978. >> Also since 1978 it's the incredible crappy world. :-) > You are talking about Fantasy Europe or Glorantha here? That'll be Glorantha of course. The pantheon is so clumsly laid out that Divine magic ends up being a bad joke. And I'll tell you that our DM did everything he could to run a decent campaign -- and it worked. But he's never going to run a RQ campaign again. :( > Anyway, systems that might work with Mystara: [snip] > Pendragon; A quicker, simpler version of RuneQuest. We have converted all > our RQ campaigns into this system cause things tend to be rather slow in > the RQ system. Read: combat. The battles in RQ tend to be always the same: the PCs against *one*big*guy*, never a swarm of undead, for instance. When there's more than 10 people in a fight, it takes forever. But Pendragon has a character creation process that is a scaled down version of GURPS. > GURPS; This is the system I currently use. The mechanics, like those of RQ > are a bit slow, but you can create any PC you can imagine. This system > also works well if youre planning on doing a Blackmoor campaign. And so in RQ, you can create a half-ogre ninja/bard/witch doctor if you fancy. :-) Hmmm, why do you say that about Blackmoor? Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 10:27:59 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words >> How could the guys who wrote the Alfheim GAZ do that to Mr Tolkien!!!! The >> elf tongue has been warped, twisted and manipulated to fill the needs of >> these people! It's really disappointing, considering the excellent work >> found on any other Gaz. > I think they were trying to make their own elven-sounding language. > Ofcourse, they werent linguists. > Also, note that Alfheim is heavily inspired by Wendy and Richard Pinis > ElfQuest comics. The names are mainly from norse and celtic sources > though. I've never read ElfQuest, should I? >> And yes, I'm a big Tolkien fan. :-) > Hey, me too. > There is a sad thing about Fantasy though; people tend to copy too much of > Tolkiens stuff. Before Tolkien's work, the word 'elf' meant almost the same as goblin, or imp or wight. Nowadays, everyone *knows* that an elf is a fair-skinned slender guy with pointed ears... a description which didn't exist before The Hobbit. > I have met people who think that the Dragonlance Chronicles are way better than Lord of the Rings. And in a way, > maybe that is true; Whats so exciting about a world that has elves, dwarves and halflings? Maybe they're right. But if you see those guys again, tell them to read The Silmarillion. If they pass the first hundred pages, they'll reconsider what they said about DL (which sucks big time :-). FYI, I've read The Silmarillion about 7 times. :-) > Doesnt every world have those guys these days? And Legolas, an elven archer? Thats such a cliché. :( How do you play that elven archer, that's what makes a difference to me. Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 14:50:02 +0000 From: gordon@ucd.ie Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Orient (LONG) > <<[* - Hey, if baiting ol' DM is the only way to get the MOrient material > posted, it'll be worth my getting flamed about it! There's a method to my > madness, tee hee hee.... ;-D]>> > > I am REALLY SORRY, Sharon, if I angered you. I didn't want to, believe me. > I hate causing strifes and flamewars in this or in other lists, and this > surely wasn't my intention. I could never start a flame with nice women > like those found on this list ;) > > Say what: why don't we all flame somebody else together to settle our > disputes? Randomly choosing a name.. mmmmh.. Gordon McCormick: you're a > loserkobold! How's this for a flamewar start? ;p *(patting Gordon on the > shoulder)* I dunno, you name *one* bad guy after a list member and you get dragged into a Flame War :) You don't see Havard or Strawberry Jamm complaining, now do you :) :) (Yes, I finally managed to get Strawberry Jam into my game...at the game we played at Leprecon with Bruce, Strawberry Jam was the contact name of a Darokinian spy in Glantri City...ahem, anyway...) So, is there a seperate race of Loserkobolds distinct from the WinnerKobolds like Kol? If so, are they still around, or did they end up in the Hollow World (or Moon?) > M-China (Chung Yuan, Empire) What sort of time in the Chinese Empire are you thinking of stealing, er, basing M-China on? (still reading up on my Chinese history after seeing mulan...) > Same applies with Thothia: until DotE, we completely ignored the existance > of Thothia, save what was later written in M5 (even the Thadders didn't > mention Thothia in their gaz). See what I'm trying to say? ;) Yup, but it's be nice to be backward compatible, any huge impact that skothar would/should have on the Known World would be a bit difficult to account for. Hmmm, maybe they're incredibly isolationist until something in WotI brings them out of their shell? > Well, we're doing it just in case people are not "tired of" having Asian > cultures around. And besides, I think it's easier to get to Skothar than > going to an invisible moon.. could you agree with me at least on this? ;) I dunno, have you tried getting tickets to Skothar in the holiday season? You, Gordon, on the other hand, are allowed to take it as a personal flame. > And no, no hug for you.. ;p Bah, that's it, I think one recurring bad guy IMC is about to meet his fate :) :) :) > DM > (who's thinking on posting to the MML his long history behind the M-Chinese > migrations..) Please do! gordon Gordon McCormick, System Management UCD Computing Services,Belfield, Dublin 4 ph. +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 16:07:42 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Inhabitants of Ar From: "Jamuga Khan" >To give the inhabitants of (Floating) Ar a name led me by far too >deep into the unpleasant parts of my people. So I have decided >to call them "Arans" with their "Aran" life-style. > >Can you all live with that? As others said, Aran is the name of the Aranean city on the IoD. Not that it is a problem, though - we already have similar instances, like a city in Glantri named after an Alphatian Empress (and that is only one such example). When I wrote events for Floating Ar in the Mystaran Almanac, I was faced with this problem too. I looked up in various books and found that the inhabitants of Floating Ar are called Floating Arians, and used that term. (The exact place where this appears I don't remember, but I guess it's one of the PWA.) That would probably mean that inhabitants of (the non-floating part of) Ar are indeed called Arians. We can cheat a bit though, and say that all inhabitants of Ar call themselves Floating Arians whether they live on the floating isles or on the mainland, and even extend that to Alphatia in the HW by saying that the inhabitants still call it Floating Ar even though there's no obvious reason anymore (except to those who remember) and hence are still called Floating Arians. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 15:56:07 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! Hi all! Ever heard of SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism)? Well, it's the greatest association to organize LIVE ACTION Role Play sessions. I met a guy on the net who sent me to this site, and man, it's AMAZING! Just take a look at this picture to get the feeling: http://members.tripod.com/~Kurak_LightSeeker/pennsic/page1.html And he told me that at the last battle (War of Pensic, held in PA, USA) there were some 10,000 people that camped there for over 2 weeks!! That is really what I'd call "to capture the flavour of the MIddle Ages"! :) Anyone here is member/ever participate to such a large scale campaign? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:31:38 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR > > How do these paths relate to the Paths to Inmortality? Are you saying that a > 30-odd level Thelemic can only follow the Path of Thought? It'd make perfect > sense, I guess. > > Well, I would not be so strict: perhaps a Path Specialist gets a bonus if following Immortality in the appropiate Sphere (for a Thelemic it would be the Path of the Epic Hero), similar in magnitude to that taken for being of the "favored class" (Dynast for clerics, Paragon for M-Us, Polymath for fighters, Epic Hero for thieves and mystics); but I would not limit the choice for some reasons: 1. Paths to Immortality are well-guarded secrets: perhaps a PC may discover a path which does not match his Sphere. Would he continue researching for a more apropiate one or just give a try? 2. Pious PCs which are favored by Immortals are not only influenced by reasons of their Sphere: alignment and areas of interest are important, too (a devout fighter follower of Vanya, if he is sponsored by her, would follow the Sphere of Time, which favours clerics). 3. Most Alphatian mages (including followers of the Secret Paths) would - -IMO- follow the Path of the Parangon: it is favored by their class, they have many potential sponsors and most of the test and trials are best accomplished through magic. EG, Ar could easily have been a Follower of Air-Thelemic, and he undertook the Path of the Parangon. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 12:05:08 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words >>> How could the guys who wrote the Alfheim GAZ do that to Mr Tolkien!!!! >The >>> elf tongue has been warped, twisted and manipulated to fill the needs of >>> these people! It's really disappointing, considering the excellent work >>> found on any other Gaz. So why can't the multiverse's elves have hundreds of different languages, just like IRL humans do? I mean, we've got dozens of language FAMILIES, let along subtleties like dialects ... and we're all on the same planet/plane! Personally, I kinda like the elven tongue (Sperethiel) that's used in Shadowrun and Earthdawn products. The little tidbits that pop up in novels really "scan" like a genuine language -- i.e. something with sentence structure/grammer -- yet there's nothing derivative or Tolkien-esque about it. Not to mention that it's a LOT easier to cuss someone out in Sperethiel, than LotR-speak! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:42:47 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics >Markus Montola wrote: > >> P.S. IMC the best way for a mortal to kill an immortal is Discharge. >> I generally treat the Radiance spells mortal, but their _effects_ >> immortal magic. Thus you can't cast Discharge within Anti-Magic >> Shell, but if you are outside, you can cast the spell and call >> the immortal power which blasts even inside the shell. > >That's a pretty wild P.S. !!! Really; mortals shouldn't go around >killing immortals. And not just with a single spell...even if it is a >Radiance spell. : ] Well, it aint going to kill them permanently (if it at all). It sez in G:KoM that the only defence is magic resistance, which kindof goes against the antimagic shell theory (although, IMHO it should bypass antimagic shell). Perhaps a pierce any shield followed by a discharge spell... ouch! Cheerz Rob (who is now entering the Tomb of Horrors and contemplating 9th level Glantrian spells) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 06:43:11 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: malachie >I was just thinking to share with you the -somewhat different- way >my players choosed to follow, once that Malachie was returned by me to >his real, powerful status. Ezio, that was a pretty good twist you did there - quite wonderful. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:36:00 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words In a message dated 08/03/99 10:14:53 GMT, you write: << Also, note that Alfheim is heavily inspired by Wendy and Richard Pinis ElfQuest comics. >> Well, bits of it, anyway. Not a problem, though, as I'm sure many will agree; it's nice to see some non-tolkien elvishness show up in D&D occasionally, and I've always been a huge Pini fan (whose devotion was somewhat strained with the "FutureQuest" stuff, however. :-/ ). I thought having the "Leetah" variation come from the Belcadiz elves was rather inspired; Hated the use-name "Coolhands", though - made me think of cowboy films, for some reason...;-) Sorry, gone a little off-topic. The Alfheim GAZ has long been one of my favourites. I never quite forgave WotI for completely screwing the country over. Whilst I'm on the topic of elflands, has anyone made a stab at mapping/gazetteering Shiye-Lawr? I'd be interested to hear any ideas for making that land (either the old version or the new HW edition) unique and special. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 13:24:03 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? > Anyway, systems that might work with Mystara: There is also FUDGE. It is as flexible as GURPS but a lot simpler. It is the fastest game I've ever played, even faster than OD&D, and focuses on story more than mechanics. One cool aspect is that D&D character stats and skill map directly into FUDGE (which uses a -3 to +3 scale). Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 17:09:44 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff (was: Elf words) > Whilst I'm on the topic of elflands, has anyone made a stab at >mapping/gazetteering Shiye-Lawr? I'd be interested to hear any ideas for >making that land (either the old version or the new HW edition) unique and >special. > >Carl Q. Wellllll... a while ago, the question of what clan relics the Shiye-Lawr elves possess came up on the MMB. I suggested that Eiryndel's relics might be living, ageless, intelligent animals with magical powers (like vanishing bit by bit, Cheshire Cat style! :-D -D D ), in contrast to Ilsundal's ToLs. The thought of Shiye-Lawr relics' having mobility and minds of their own -- thus, allowing them to run off in a fit of pique, play pranks on their Keepers, and make smart-ass remarks ;-) -- seemed to go over well on the MMB, but nobody actually came up with a description for them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 14:20:50 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > One of my fellow PCs is a DM too (AD&D 1st) and he does use demihuman > accents, but keep in mind that we play in Spanish! :-) > > So the dwarves speak with a strong german accent, ?!? I wonder what a german accent sounds like in spanish...? I can't even begin to imagine! > and the > halflings speak like Don Vito Corleone in the movie The Godfather, > and -of course- they eat only pasta and drink red wine. :-) I like this. :-) FWIW, I never think of dwarves as being german or scottish. I don't normally do accents when GMing, but I think of dwarves as having a gutteral middle-eastern flavor. Halflings and elves do not have any a particular accent to me. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 17:20:23 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, DM wrote: > Hi all! > > Ever heard of SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism)? Well, it's the > greatest association to organize LIVE ACTION Role Play sessions. I met a > guy on the net who sent me to this site, and man, it's AMAZING! Actually, one of my very close friends from high school is a member of SCA and she goes to Pennsic Wars annually. She has nothing but high compliments for it, especially since it's how she met her husband! They even had home-made mead at their wedding. ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #119 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 120 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! Re: [MYSTARA] - Climate change and Nithia [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) [none] [MYSTARA] - RE: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: New monster - Servitor of Ubbeth] Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:45:07 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - You gotta see this! I used to be a member years ago. Some of the rules are pretty stupid and restrictive but the feats and mock fighting (padded weapons, chivalric rules etc.) are fun. You have to get approval of your coat of arms, and the name you choose has to be recorded somewhere from 800 AD to 1453 AD IIRC. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 19:22:18 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Climate change and Nithia Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > So, does anyone else think this might work, to account for both Nithia's > fire-fetish, AND its colonization efforts....? Or am I barking up the > wrong tree here? > No...that sounds just great...I always wondered why Nithia sought new colonies. This gives it a real good reason. Good work. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 19:20:22 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World > I must say that I have often wondered about "Davania" and > whether it is somehow related to David Cook, one of the > writers of X1 and one of the original developers of the > Known World... Speaking of which, I have always wondered where the Known World came from. I always assumed the Karameikos map in the Expert rulebook was first, and that it came from someone's personal D&D campaign. (Perhaps Dave Cook's?) This was partly based on the observation that that map was drawn at 6 miles per hex, and the national boundaries suggested that other borders and nations existed even though they weren't mentioned in the description. Finally the description hinted that Karameikos actually had a history and NPCs and stuff before it was published. I always thought the continent map in X1 was extrapolated from the original Karameikos map. The X1 map seems to be drawn but not based on anything real, and the descriptions are very terse. Of course this was all fleshed out later and ended up not really resembling the version in X1 -- but then I've heard that the published version of Greyhawk doesn't really look much like Gygax's campaign either. Does anyone know the real story of the origins of the Known World? Was it based on a campaign (like Greyhawk) or was it designed just for the Expert boxed set? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 11:36:47 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World > Speaking of which, I have always wondered where the Known World came from. > > I always assumed the Karameikos map in the Expert rulebook was first, and > that it came from someone's personal D&D campaign. (Perhaps Dave Cook's?) > This was partly based on the observation that that map was drawn at 6 > miles > per hex, and the national boundaries suggested that other borders and > nations existed even though they weren't mentioned in the description. > Finally the description hinted that Karameikos actually had a history and > NPCs and stuff before it was published. > > I always thought the continent map in X1 was extrapolated from the > original > Karameikos map. The X1 map seems to be drawn but not based on anything > real, and the descriptions are very terse. Of course this was all fleshed > out later and ended up not really resembling the version in X1 -- but then > I've heard that the published version of Greyhawk doesn't really look much > like Gygax's campaign either. > > Does anyone know the real story of the origins of the Known World? Was it > based on a campaign (like Greyhawk) or was it designed just for the Expert > boxed set? > > Mike > [MURPHY Jason] Yeah, i have always wondered about this as well. For one thing the name "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" inferred that it was part of some larger entity. Noone calls a nation "Grand Duchy" unless it used to be or is still part of some other nation. Otherwise they would just call it a Kingdom. I seem to remember a Module called "The veiled society" that detailed specularum (it might have even been called Mirros in that one). From memory i think some background info was given for Karameikos. There was even a map of the city. And i definitely remeber that the map of specularum didnt match the map found in the gazeteer. Damn shame i dont have the module any more. Does anyone else remeber this module? Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 22:37:32 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World In a message dated 99-03-08 22:22:46 EST, michael.harvey@intel.com writes: << Does anyone know the real story of the origins of the Known World? Was it based on a campaign (like Greyhawk) or was it designed just for the Expert boxed set? Mike >> I had the opportunity to ask Dave Cook that very question once, and he told me that the Known World was created "out of whole cloth", so to speak. That is, it was created then and there, for the expert set, it was not a prior in-house TSR campaign or Dave Cook's own campaign. Sort of like how the DragonLance world was created, except portions of DL were from pre-existing campaigns, and of course DL had a lot more behind it from the get-go, while the Known World just sort of grew... I do suspect, however, that at least for a while it was Tom Moldvay's "Campaign of Choice", based on the modules he worked on in the early days of D&D... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:20:10 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World One thing that fascinates me in the Mystara setting is how, intentionally or not, the Templar / Rosicrucian stuff sort of seeps through. Specularum / Mirros is an example - Specularum can mean mirror, Mirros is obviously only one letter away from the same word. And of course the Hollow Earth at its most basic is another overt adaptation from esotericism. The most intriguing of all is the use of the Platonic eidolon for both magic spells and the planes, married to the very esoteric notion of not only gods that can make themselves mortal bodies but mortal people who can make themselves gods. Perhaps the presence of these features is a reason why the Mystara setting will be permanently beheaded, buried beneath a statue of the Black Madonna? :) Jonathan "caput58" Nolan :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * * Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 * * - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 00:53:33 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) Ever wonder what a court of law might be like in Karameikos? The following exerpt from a lengthy Karameikos campaign makes use of the description provided in the gazetteer. The events described follow the conclusion of module B6 - the Veiled Society: * * * A bailiff loudly proclaimed for all to rise as the Honourable Judge Anastasius made his entrance, and then for all to be seated once the judge took his seat. The judge began, "I've already heard the evidence at the initial hearing this morning, agreeing that it is sufficient to hold a trial. The accused, Cartha Radu, is charged with having committed Murder-Spontaneous, a class 6 crime. The party murdered was Anton Radu, Cartha's brother and former head of the Merchant's Guild of Karameikos. I now call upon the state prosecutor to present his case. "Thank-you, your honor", a man said, rising from the table in front of the party. "I maintain that Cartha Radu, head of the infamous Veiled Society, killed his brother Anton when he refused to join him in his criminal empire. As head of the Merchant's Guild of Karameikos, Anton Radu would have lent immeasurable strength to the already powerful criminal organization. As my first witness, I call upon Zweiss Radu, Anton's eldest son. Cartha Radu glared at Zweiss as the young man made his way to the witness box. "Tell us what happened last night, Zweiss", asked Varis the prosecutor. Zweiss cleared his throat and began. "My uncle had invited my father to the Blue Water Mead Hall last night. Not trusting his motives, I accompanied my ailing father to the Hall. When my uncle took us to a secret chamber and revealed that he was, in fact, the leader of the dreaded Veiled Society; and furthermore demanded that we join his corrupt organization, my father would have none of it. This angered Cartha so much that he lost his temper and slew my poor father. Zweiss avoided Cartha's deepening glare as he spoke, and his voice faltered many times. "Thank-you, Zweiss", said the prosecutor. "I realize that you've had a very traumatic experience. No further questions, your honor. People in the courtroom started murmuring among themselves as Cartha's advocate rose and approached Zweiss. The ratty little man wore a pince-nez, and his voice had a whining quality to it. "Zweiss Radu, is it true that your father favoured your brother Antonito over you, the eldest? "Objection, your honor", exclaimed the state prosecutor. "Objection overruled", said the judge. "Well, no, not really", said Zweiss. "Ah, but if he did, would that not be sufficient reason to kill him and become head of the Merchant's Guild yourself, now, before Antonito was ready? "Objection!", exclaimed the prosecutor, rising to his feet. "Overruled!", proclaimed the judge. "No! I would never kill my father! Our family is loyal to each other! All except Cartha, that is", said Zweiss. "All the same, I maintain that it was you who killed your father when he attempted to hand over the reins of the Veiled Society to Cartha Radu. It was your father who masterminded that criminal empire, wasn't it? He was the real head of the Veiled Society! He - "No!", shouted Zweiss, as the state prosecutor shouted out another "Objection! "Sustained", rumbled the judge. "No further questions, your honor", said the advocate with a sneer. The prosecutor then called upon each of the adventurers in turn, as he and the advocate took turns questioning them. When Manfred took the stand, he felt vertigo overwhelm him. Not from his hangover, (that was making him feel nauseous), but rather, from a vivid flashback . . . The chamber is brightly lit by hundreds of sputtering candles that give the room a warm, yellow glow. In the center of the room is a table piled with books and papers. On the floor is an old man. He lies face down in a small pool of blood. Standing over him is a middle-aged swarthy man holding a sword to a younger man's chest. The younger man shouts "Stop him! He has slain our father! He is a murderer!" "Get back you fools or die now!" says the man. "I've had enough meddling and foolishness." He then leaps forward to attack you. . . ". . . and that's what happened", proclaimed Manfred. After the rest of the party had taken the stand, the judge called upon Cartha's hired advocate to present his case. The little man rose and cleared his throat. "I maintain that Anton Radu, when he attempted to pass his power along to his brother, Cartha, was violently murdered by his own jealous son, Zweiss Radu. Cartha disarmed the excitable youth just before the bungling party entered the room. As my witness I call upon Cartha Radu." Cartha rose ominously from his place and stalked to the witness box. Once seated, he began his statement. "I always knew that there was something funny with my brother's business dealings, but chose to ignore it. When he called me to the Blue Water Mead Hall last night for what he termed "a profitable business venture", I had no idea that he would reveal himself as the head of the dreaded Veiled Society! Imagine my surprise when he told me he was getting to old to run the criminal empire, and that he would like me to take over! Before I could refuse, Zweiss the fool drew his blade and slew the old man before my very eyes. Then he tried to slay me! But I overpowered him and seized the weapon from his grasp. That's when the party burst into the room. Of course I fled them! Wouldn't you? There was some chuckling from the courtroom as the advocate said, "Thank-you, Lord Cartha. I have no questions, your honor". The murmuring resumed anew as the state prosecutor took the floor. "If you were so innocent, why is it that you threatened to kill Yolanda of Luln? "I was trying to save my own life until the constables arrived, you fool! These overstuffed Glantrian brutes were trying to shorten my height by the length of a head! I had no choice!" spat out Cartha. "If that was indeed the case, then why didn't you run straight to the constabulary, instead of taking a circuitous route throughout the city? I understand you passed many gaurd posts, giving them a wide berth. "I wasn't about to let Specularum's finest muck everything up! I had to take things into my own hands. "Yes, you took everything into your own hands, didn't you? Including the law! I have no further questions, your honor" said the prosecutor. "Well, then I'll have to ask both you and the advocate to make your closing remarks before ordering a short recess to make a decision. "Your honor", said the prosecutor, "Cartha Radu is a dangerous criminal who deserves to be hanged. The grip of the Veiled Society has finally loosed it's hold on Karameikos. I have nothing more to say. "Your honor", sniveled the hired advocate, "a great injustice is about to be committed. An innocent man is about to suffer for the transgressions of a criminal mastermind. If Cartha is convicted, Zweiss will simply pick up where his father left off, and we will never be rid of the menace of the Veiled Society. "Thank-you, both. I'm calling a short recess to deliberate, and will come back shortly to inform you of my decision. As the bailiff called for all to rise, there was an explosion of conversation. Many people started moving for the doors to the stuffy courtroom to go outside and get some air. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 22:59:06 -0800 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: [none] At 07:36 PM 08/03/99 , you wrote: > > Yeah, i have always wondered about this as well. For one thing the >name "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" inferred that it was part of some larger >entity. Noone calls a nation "Grand Duchy" unless it used to be or is still >part of some other nation. Otherwise they would just call it a Kingdom. I >seem to remember a Module called "The veiled society" that detailed >specularum (it might have even been called Mirros in that one). From memory >i think some background info was given for Karameikos. There was even a map >of the city. And i definitely remeber that the map of specularum didnt match >the map found in the gazeteer. Damn shame i dont have the module any more. >Does anyone else remeber this module? > I always had the impression that the title of Grand Duchy was a holdover from when the lands were a part of the Thyatian Empire. From the description of the Thyatian use of the land in Gaz1, it probably wasn't even a Grand Duchy until after Stephen Karameikos approached the Emperor with his deal for autonomous control of the land. But since Stephen didn't want to assume the title of King until after he felt he had the support of the people, there was no need to change the official designation of the country from a Grand Duchy to a Kingdom (and I can see some Thyatian beaucrat using this point to include Karameikoes as being part of the Empire, glossing over the fact that it is autonomous from Imperial rule). Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:35:42 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: > I always had the impression that the title of Grand Duchy was a holdover > from when the lands were a part of the Thyatian Empire. > > Richard > [MURPHY Jason] Yup. Thats was what i figured out later. But for a year or so in my younger days i only had the expert set to go by and this made no explanation. Anyway once i got the gaz's everything fell into place. :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 02:09:35 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Richard Drozdik wrote: > > I always had the impression that the title of Grand Duchy was a holdover > from when the lands were a part of the Thyatian Empire. From the > description of the Thyatian use of the land in Gaz1, it probably wasn't > even a Grand Duchy until after Stephen Karameikos approached the Emperor > with his deal for autonomous control of the land. I think it was just knows as the Traladara region. Not really more than a collection of few cities and villages before the coming of Stefan (IMC). > But since Stephen didn't > want to assume the title of King until after he felt he had the support of > the people, there was no need to change the official designation of the > country from a Grand Duchy to a Kingdom (and I can see some Thyatian > beaucrat using this point to include Karameikoes as being part of the > Empire, glossing over the fact that it is autonomous from Imperial rule). IMC, Stefan couldn't take the title of king at all without declaring independence from Thyatis. My view is that all the Thyatians that came to Karameikos were given better treatment than the Traladarans because it was officially a part of the empire that Traladarans hadn't been given citizenship in yet. Stefan's declaration of independence from the Empire effectively gave Traladarans equal citizenship with they Thyatians as they all became Karameikans. For a bit more of what I've done with Karameikos (the family especially) is have one of the early soldiers of Thyatis who helped conquered Traladara became lost in the eastern hills and received a visitation from Halav that his decedent would rule this land. He becomes a Thyatian cleric of Halav (possibly one of the first). He believes his son will rule Traladara one day but it is actually his daughter that marries the duke of Machetos and gives birth to Stefan Karameikos which fulfills the prophesy. Halav also prepares the Traladarans for his chosen king's coming by sending signs to his clergy. One man is mentally unstable. This is Segyev of the Cult of Halav. He misinterprets it as Stefan IS the reincarnation of Halav instead of Halav's chosen king and begins the cult. All in my view :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 08:48:37 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) That was GREAT, DJ! Makes me happy that the PCs hacked up all the Radus when I ran that adventure! ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:10:59 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) > > That was GREAT, DJ! Makes me happy that the PCs hacked up all the Radus when > I ran that adventure! ;) > *************************************************************************** I agree! It made me want to open up an interDIMENSIONAL practice as well as my international one! :) Now... my actual question: Is anyone using the E.G.G. of CooT in their campaign, as an actual villain rather than an ad hominem attack on Gygax? If so, pls reveal your stats and strategies for the twisted god-man-monster. Although it is a lampoon, it is a pretty cool sounding typhonian entity, I thought I would plop it down on a newly-risen island Cthulhu style or similar, but if someone else has already bounced the EGG then by all means impart to me your pearls of enlightenment... :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:22:19 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: New monster - Servitor of Ubbeth] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: New monster - Servitor of Ubbeth Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 09:16:17 -0500 Servitor of Ubbeth (Hresha-rhak): Armour Class: 6 Hit Dice: 2+1 (M) Move: 60' (20') land, 180' (60') swimming Attacks: 2 claws or 1 bite or 1 weapon Damage: 1d4+1/1d4+1 or 2d6 or by weapon No. Appearing: 1d8 (2d10) Save As: F 3 Morale: 9 Treasure Type: U Intelligence: 12 Alignment: Chaotic XP Value: 25 Servitors of Ubbeth (or Hresha-rhak, as they call themselves) are main-sized, fish-like creatures that dwell deep underwater in their shadowy caverns and cities, devoting their lives to Ubbeth, Spawn of the Deep. No one knows where they originated - whether they were created, brought over from the Plane of Water, or converted to the worship of the Outer Beings at some distant time in the past. Regardless, the Servitors of Ubbeth have dwelt in their scattered undersea homes in the western and eastern Seas of Dawn for at least a thousand years, and have recently established outlying colonies in the Aaslan Gulf and the Bellissarian Sea. These creatures stand between 5 ½' to 6' tall, and their bodies are covered with mottled, lumpy green and grey scales. Their hands and feet are webbed and clawed, and their wide mouths are filled with hundreds of needle-like teeth, surrounded by thick, rubbery lips. Protruding from the base of their spines is a vestigial tail, measuring roughly one foot long. Being deep sea creatures, the Servitors of Ubbeth have large, saucer-shaped, fish-like eyes, positioned close to the sides of their heads, just above their gills. This positioning gives them a wide field of vision (almost 180'), thus making it impossible for opponents to make flanking attacks on them with a bonus to hit. Due to their environment, they also possess infravision, being able to see up to 90' away if the water is clear, or if there are no significant obstructions. This ability works also to their disadvantage; they find even moonlight to be uncomfortably bright, and sunlight will painfully blind them. When fighting under moonlight, servitors of Ubbeth have their morale reduced to 7, and have a -1 penalty to hit. Under sunlight, their morale falls to 4, and they fight as if blinded (-4 to all attacks). Even in the water, they are vulnerable; these creatures find the light levels at any depth less than 200 feet to be uncomfortable, suffering penalties as per moonlight. Hresha-rhak, being icthyoid, cannot survive for prolonged periods away from water. They can only spend a maximum of 1d4 turns out of water, after which they begin to drown (a process taking only 1d4 rounds). Accordingly, they are also highly vulnerable to fire and fire-based attacks - taking double damage from them. Despite this limit, these creatures are more than capable of causing considerable damage whenever they raid coastal villages during moonless nights, and returning to the water before they begin to suffer any ill effects. In combat, Servitors of Ubbeth can attack either with a hand weapon, or with a combination of clawing and biting. In the latter case, they can make two clawing attacks per round, or one biting attack, though both clawing attacks must be made against one target. Hresha-rhak, when using hand weapons, prefer spears or daggers. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:51:16 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words - -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Dornhoff To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Lunes 8 de Marzo de 1999 14:19 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words >>>> How could the guys who wrote the Alfheim GAZ do that to Mr Tolkien!!!! The >>>> elf tongue has been warped, twisted and manipulated to fill the needs of >>>> these people! It's really disappointing, considering the excellent work >>>> found on any other Gaz. > >So why can't the multiverse's elves have hundreds of different languages, >just like IRL humans do? I mean, we've got dozens of language FAMILIES, >let along subtleties like dialects ... and we're all on the same >planet/plane! > Exactly! But due to lack of imagination or deadline rush, the Elves of Alfheim tongue and/or names bear a very strong resemblance to the LotR elftongue. OTOH, Mystara's strong point may be (IMHO) exactly that --all the cultures we're familiar with are more or less included in the KW (or HW, for that matter). We have French and German mages in Glantri (let alone the Alien part of the family), muslim arabs in Ylaruam, crazed Aztec warrior-priests in Azca, the mighty Egyptian Empire in Nithia, Spanish fencing locos in the Savage Coast... you get the picture. And why, having this myriad of cultures and civilizations, did they have to (more or less) copy Mr Tolkien's work? That's what I'm talking about. >Personally, I kinda like the elven tongue (Sperethiel) that's used in >Shadowrun and Earthdawn products. The little tidbits that pop up in novels >really "scan" like a genuine language -- i.e. something with sentence >structure/grammer -- yet there's nothing derivative or Tolkien-esque about >it. Not to mention that it's a LOT easier to cuss someone out in >Sperethiel, than LotR-speak! :-) > You have a point there. I can't imagine an angry elf cursin in Quenya or Sindarin! :-) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #120 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 121 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) Re: [MYSTARA] - A journey to the past [MYSTARA] - Origins of the KW RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff (was: Elf words) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the KW RE: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos (off topic-ish) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:59:27 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ALPHATIAN FOLLOWERS OF AIR >> How do these paths relate to the Paths to Inmortality? Are you saying that a >> 30-odd level Thelemic can only follow the Path of Thought? It'd make perfect >> sense, I guess. >Well, I would not be so strict: perhaps a Path Specialist gets a bonus if >following Immortality in the appropiate Sphere (for a Thelemic it would be >the Path of the Epic Hero), similar in magnitude to that taken for being of >the "favored class" (Dynast for clerics, Paragon for M-Us, Polymath for >fighters, Epic Hero for thieves and mystics); but I would not limit the >choice for some reasons: > >1. Paths to Immortality are well-guarded secrets: perhaps a PC may discover >a path which does not match his Sphere. Would he continue researching for a >more apropiate one or just give a try? But come on! If you're the DM, the PC will never really *choose* or discover his path. ;-) >2. Pious PCs which are favored by Immortals are not only influenced by >reasons of their Sphere: alignment and areas of interest are important, too >(a devout fighter follower of Vanya, if he is sponsored by her, would >follow the Sphere of Time, which favours clerics). Yes, I agree whith that... but we're not talking about other classes, we're considering a high level Thelemic, who I don't think he'd be a Vanya fanatic! :-) > >3. Most Alphatian mages (including followers of the Secret Paths) would >-IMO- follow the Path of the Parangon: it is favored by their class, they >have many potential sponsors and most of the test and trials are best >accomplished through magic. EG, Ar could easily have been a Follower of >Air-Thelemic, and he undertook the Path of the Parangon. > Yep, that darn floating island is something to be reckoned with! :-) BTW, the other session a bunch of Ardudes invaded my barony and stole my treasure! Worst of all, they made a strong illusion which duplicated my character in every way, so the peasants weren't suspecting anything... until my evil twin set a curfew and banned the wine & beer caravans (I'm a halfling, mind you). Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:03:56 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >> One of my fellow PCs is a DM too (AD&D 1st) and he does use demihuman >> accents, but keep in mind that we play in Spanish! :-) >> >> So the dwarves speak with a strong german accent, > >?!? I wonder what a german accent sounds like in spanish...? I can't even >begin to imagine! It's basically the same as I think is in English... strong Rs, Fs for Vs, Vs for Ws, zat khind of zeeng, Herr Mikael! BTW, have you ever listened to Kraftwerk? They can give you enough inspiration... :-)) >FWIW, I never think of dwarves as being german or scottish. I don't >normally do accents when GMing, but I think of dwarves as having a gutteral >middle-eastern flavor. Halflings and elves do not have any a particular >accent to me. Middle east? Where exactly? Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 12:36:30 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Law in Karameikos (the Veiled Society revisited) That was some very nice writing there. Keep going. Maybe an occasional post on hot cases in the Karameikan court system? Good stuff. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:05:09 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A journey to the past > There were no Orcs, goblins, trolls and the like arent around at this > time. They are the descendants of the Beastmen, so I suggest that you > replace the goblinoids mentioned with Beastmen. You can use the same > statistics, but change the descriptions slightly. And it is reasonable to assume that some famous Beastmen tribes gave the modern humanoids their names. E.g.: The Goblin tribe, the Troll tribe etc. ... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:31:15 EST From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the KW > Yeah, i have always wondered about this as well. For one thing the > name "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" inferred that it was part of some larger > entity. Noone calls a nation "Grand Duchy" unless it used to be or is still > part of some other nation. [Jason Murphy] Actually, this does not sound right. The concept of "nation" didn't come about until some time in the middle ages, at least in Europe. For example, the Duchy of Burgundy did not consider itself part of "France", and neither did many of what are referred to as "princes" in French history (the Count of Anjou, the Duke of Normandy, etc). It's only after the 100 years war that the concept of "nation" really started to take root in France, at least within the population's mind. It wasn't long after this when the kings of France really could assert their royal authority over the territory that makes up France today. That's just an example. This happened earlier with England, and much later in Germany and Italy (IIRC). As far as the fantasy game goes, large duchies and other powerful political entities don't necessarily belong to a "nation" since, from their ruler's point of view, they *are* a sovereign nation themselves. It's convenient that they do belong to some sort of nation in the game, since player characters are supposed to receive their lands from a king (but that's not an obligation). The Gd Duchy of Karameikos is a mediocre example of this, since originally it was an outpost of the empire which was given to Stephan Karameikos in exchange for his ancestral lands. It remained largely autonomous for some time and eventually became fully independent kingdom. But anyway... back to the original topic... :o) > the Known World was created "out of whole cloth", so to speak. That is, > it was created then and there, for the expert set, it was not a prior in- house > TSR campaign or Dave Cook's own campaign. [Mystaros] That's correct. Dave Cook, Tom Moldvay, and someone else I think were the original creators. This was before my time at TSR, but it's what I found out when I was there. It was created pretty much as is in the Expert and the old X1 module. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:02:15 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Known World >> I always assumed the Karameikos map in the Expert rulebook was first, and >> that it came from someone's personal D&D campaign. (Perhaps Dave Cook's?) >> This was partly based on the observation that that map was drawn at 6 >> miles >> per hex, and the national boundaries suggested that other borders and >> nations existed even though they weren't mentioned in the description. >> Finally the description hinted that Karameikos actually had a history and >> NPCs and stuff before it was published. >> >> I always thought the continent map in X1 was extrapolated from the >> original >> Karameikos map. The X1 map seems to be drawn but not based on anything >> real, and the descriptions are very terse. Of course this was all fleshed >> out later and ended up not really resembling the version in X1 -- but then >> I've heard that the published version of Greyhawk doesn't really look much >> like Gygax's campaign either. >> >> Does anyone know the real story of the origins of the Known World? Was it >> based on a campaign (like Greyhawk) or was it designed just for the Expert >> boxed set? >> >> Mike The way I've heard the story (at a long-ago GenCon seminar about the Gazetteers) was that the X1 map came first. It was something that one of the early oD&D designers -- can't recall who, I'm afraid; Bruce Heard, where are you when we need you...? -- sketched out, and had lying around on his desk. But he'd never actually developed the setting, beyond the capsule descriptions given in X1, or used it in a game. As far as the actual creation-process goes, this designer basically jotted down a list of all the countries and settings he'd wanted to have available, for adventures. ("Lemme think ... well, we need places for demihumans to come from ... realms for knights and for wizards ... maybe a big empire ... hey, how 'bout some Mongols? They're cool ... can't leave out those rich merchants, to hire PCs to fight for them, or lots of humanoids to get fought...."). Then he arbitrarily stuck them on the map wherever they seemed to fit -- a real slapdash effort -- which is why there's such improbable borders between so many of the KW cultures. When a decision was made to include a continental map in the first Expert-level module (so the PCs could start their voyage to the IoDr from the country of their choice), this designer dug out his long-unused map and - -- despite a few jeers, for his having put Arabs next door to Vikings, or the Streel's headwaters only a couple of hexes from the east coast! :-D -- offered it for inclusion. The rest, as they say, is history. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 14:24:55 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos >I think it was just knows as the Traladara region. Not really more than >a collection of few cities and villages before the coming of Stefan >(IMC). I'm more than a little suspicious of the notion that Traladara never had any monarchs of its own. It could easily be the case that the Thyatians -- the ones who conquered it in 900 AC, not Stefan's later cadre of administrators -- took it over, after a genuinely Traladaran royal family died out, or destroyed itself in a war of succession. This happened to quite a number of Eastern European nations IRL, if I'm not mistaken, when their dynasties failed and invaders annexed their disordered lands. There are feudal rulers in Slagovich and other City-States of the Savage Coast setting, so obviously the idea of a feudal monarchy isn't so unheard-of among the Traladarans; it's them, whom the RS boxed set credits with introducing feudalism to the region, in the first place! If anything, you'd expect Traladara's religion to FOSTER the rise and fall of native-born kings: every few generations, an ambitious man could get himself hailed as "the next Halav" ... only to lose the faith of the populace, when his rulership proves less than infallible, and/or saintly, in practice. I've continued my reading of Edward Rutherford's multi-generational novels, and I found out a lot of neat things about old Russian politics in his book, "Russka". As it also describes a Slavic culture that's been inundated/infiltrated by a Greek/Byzantine one (via Orthodoxy and the bold example of Constantinople), I'd recommend the first half of this novel as ideal "source material" by which to see where Karameikos's mixed Traladaran/Thyatian society could be headed, in the years to come. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 13:48:19 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos > > I'm more than a little suspicious of the notion that Traladara never had > any monarchs of its own. It could easily be the case that the Thyatians - -- > the ones who conquered it in 900 AC, not Stefan's later cadre of > administrators -- took it over, after a genuinely Traladaran royal family > died out, or destroyed itself in a war of succession. > Well, I got the impression (and I could be wrong. Folks usually assume that is the "default" anyhow) that pre-Thyatian absorbtion Traladara was a disorganized area with separate entities (not "city states" so much), local areas governed by headmen (or women), basically an area of warlords (though perhaps not very warlike ones) with no overall authority, similar to the Sklavinic (not Bulgarian) areas of the Balkans between 750 AD and circa 900 AD. Emperess Ierene and Emperor Nikephoros I (re)-absorbed significant areas of the Balkans which were occupied by disorganized Sklavinic bands around the turn of the 9th century. Much of Ierene's gains were lost subsiquently (to the Bulgars), but Nikephoros' gains (especially in north Greece) were retained, largely because he had initiated a policy of re-settling the area and creating an organized administration for it. (This Nikephoros is the same dude Bruce was refering to last fall/summer, the guy who ended up as Krum's drinking cup). Anyhow, that was my impression of the situation pre-Thyatian absorbtion; no overall ruler, just distinct bands/enclaves (Marlenev, Dmitrov, Sulescu, etc) lead by a prominent family. The Thyatians largely left these dudes in charge in the back country, it seems (directly administering only Specularuam), till Stefan came in and displaced the traditional rulers with his own cronies. As for the "Grand Duchy" thing, while Bruce is right (re. Burgundy et al. Note that IIRC Luxemborg is technically a "Grand Duchy of" to this day), it should be noted that all these Dukes, Grand Dukes, Princes, etc. who asserted their autonomy and independence were originally given their titles by a suzerian (Chuck "the Big" and his dominate created quite a few, then his heirs made more. The Ottonians in Germany made a bunch more of these fiefs, etc). When central authority became ineffectual, these vassals stoped behaving as vassals and started behaving as sovereigns in their own right. The more powerful ones (like Burgundy, but also plenty more) could ignore the so-called "King" because the King's forces were weak. The Angevin ("English") dominions in Gaul/Frankland/"France" were all technically fiefs held in vassalage to the French King (which is why Phillip Augustus was so ticked off), but since they were so much greater in size and power than the King's own holdings, the Angevin's could largely ignore their "monarch" until Phillip managed to outsmart the rather slow-witted Richard "the Lion Hearted but Spam Brained" and eat away at them. Midieval History is certainly not the history of nation-states, but it is a history of the struggle between the claims of the monarchy/emperor (whichever one) vs. the independence-minded/rebellious vassals. More could be made of this in Mystara, I suppose. But I really doubt anyone is very interested in seeing, for example, the Baron of Kelvin assert his soverignity and rebel against Stefan, or in seeing Selenica decide in favor of becoming a self-governing City State on the Florentine model. I now return you to your discussion of Mystara, already in progress. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 12:23:30 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >> FWIW, I never think of dwarves as being german or scottish. I don't >> normally do accents when GMing, but I think of dwarves as having a >> gutteral middle-eastern flavor. Halflings and elves do not have any >> a particular accent to me. > > Middle east? Where exactly? No place really specific. It's just that I heard that Tolkien based his dwarves on the Jewish people (!!!) and it really seems to fit. I always thought that Khuzdul seemed very exotic, a lot like ancient Chaldean or maybe Assyrian... besides the dwarves have long braided beards just like the ancient Babylonians! So I tend to see dwarves from that perspective. Of course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern languages spoken so there's no way I could do an accent. Besides, it kind of seems like poetic justice to me. A lot of people complain that D&D is too much like Tolkien, but I never thought the "german dwarf" stereotype was very Tolkienish at all. But then neither are D&D elves. ;-) Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:16:17 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf stuff (was: Elf words) In a message dated 08/03/99 22:11:48 GMT, you write: >Wellllll... a while ago, the question of what clan relics the Shiye-Lawr >elves possess came up on the MMB. I suggested that Eiryndel's relics might >be living, ageless, intelligent animals with magical powers (like vanishing >bit by bit, Cheshire Cat style! :-D -D D ), in contrast to Ilsundal's >ToLs. Oh, I like this...can't you just see a group of low-ish level adventurers being hired to quietly retrieve a clan-chief's (or prince's whatever) "beloved pet" which has gone missing, only to come up against a beast that's not only more powerful, but wiser and FAR more intelligent than they are, and having far too much fun to consider going home? "Here, kitty, kitty..." >The thought of Shiye-Lawr relics' having mobility and minds of their own -- >thus, allowing them to run off in a fit of pique, play pranks on their >Keepers, and make smart-ass remarks ;-) -- seemed to go over well on the >MMB, but nobody actually came up with a description for them. Shame!! Well, I'll have a go, if I may; it'll probably take a while, and may not work out, but it'll be fun trying.... :-D Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 14:29:00 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > I'm more than a little suspicious of the notion that Traladara never had > any monarchs of its own. Traladara wasn't really a nation to have kings. With most of its population is destroyed in 500 BC, Traladara was just a collection of villages without one centralized government. The Song of Halav was the only thing that gave any kind of connection. The info on Karameikos mentions that Traladara as a whole begins trading but I suspect this is only Marilenev. The second largest city, Kelvin, was founded by a Thyatian so its not one that rose. Elves moved into the interior so that probably suggests there was little human settlements that far north. What seems to be the nation of Traladara is really the city-state of Marilenev and a very few interior villages. so, it looks like Marilenev and the southern villages were the kingdom of Traladara. Probably resembling Darokin more than the later Grand Duchy of Karameikos. > It could easily be the case that the Thyatians -- > the ones who conquered it in 900 AC, not Stefan's later cadre of > administrators -- took it over, after a genuinely Traladaran royal family > died out, or destroyed itself in a war of succession. War was said to be common among the villages (though which interior villages its hard to say unless they were completely destroyed). I'm more inclined to believe that the Traladaran clans control Marilenev. Possibly there was some type of ruler (merchant-prince? Or a puppet-king) that is disposed but this ruler would have been a Marilenev. > There are feudal rulers in Slagovich and other City-States of the Savage > Coast setting, so obviously the idea of a feudal monarchy isn't so > unheard-of among the Traladarans; it's them, whom the RS boxed set credits > with introducing feudalism to the region, in the first place! Maybe this feudal system is spread before King Halav. This is a problem I find very often with Karameikos. Its not very well explained and what is explained doesn't fit exactly. There are no mentions of kings after Halav, interior villages seem rather new yet they've been around since before the crowning of the Thyatian emperor, it goes through a period of regrowth but only Marilenev is the one that profits, and its spread out as far as the Savage Coast when it could barely support itself. The real question is why the borders of Karameikos exist as they do. There's no way the Traladaran people could hold those against Darokin or Thyatis, yet those borders are the ones Karameikos inherits when we know its mostly a wilderness nation :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 16:44:20 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > > Middle east? Where exactly? > > No place really specific. It's just that I heard that Tolkien based his > dwarves on the Jewish people (!!!) and it really seems to fit. I don't see this at all. Care for explanation as to why it works in your mind? > I always > thought that Khuzdul seemed very exotic, a lot like ancient Chaldean or > maybe Assyrian... besides the dwarves have long braided beards just like the > ancient Babylonians! So I tend to see dwarves from that perspective. I personally perceive dwarves as central European..Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, etc., or at least see them as closer to those groups than any other. I don't see the language as resembling ANY language we know of..pretty harsh sounding, emphasis on strong constonants, concise, to-the-point sentences. > Of > course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern languages spoken so > there's no way I could do an accent. Were they that different from present-day Hebrew or Arabic? > dwarf" stereotype was very Tolkienish at all. But then neither are D&D > elves. ;-) Arrogant, pointy-eared scum. Sounds like they're straight from Tolkien to me. Then again, I could care less for elves. - - Mischa Gelman Pittsburgh, PA Public officials are not always admiring of men who say what the right policy should be. Their frequent need, especially in foreign affairs, is for men who will find persuasive reasons for the wrong policy - John Kenneth Galbraith *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 17:11:08 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos James Ruhland wrote: > > Well, I got the impression (and I could be wrong. Folks usually assume that > is the "default" anyhow) that pre-Thyatian absorbtion Traladara was a > disorganized area with separate entities (not "city states" so much), local > areas governed by headmen (or women), basically an area of warlords (though > perhaps not very warlike ones) with no overall authority, similar to the > Sklavinic (not Bulgarian) areas of the Balkans between 750 AD and circa 900 > AD. That's my impression, too (good gosh, did we just agree? :) > Midieval History is certainly not the history of nation-states, but it is > a history of the struggle between the claims of the monarchy/emperor > (whichever one) vs. the independence-minded/rebellious vassals. More could > be made of this in Mystara, I suppose. But I really doubt anyone is very > interested in seeing, for example, the Baron of Kelvin assert his > soverignity and rebel against Stefan, or in seeing Selenica decide in favor > of becoming a self-governing City State on the Florentine model. Well, I think things have been set-up for the possibility of Kelvin rebelling against Stefan. I rather like the idea of city-states and think them more fitting Mystara better than this hodge-podge of nations. Perhaps covertly at first. And it would make sense for Selenica having thoughts to become a self governing city (city-state) seeing how isolated it is from the rest of Darokan. As the nexus where three (four if Aengmor joins) nations met for trade, it has little reason to defer to Darokin City (though this formation of a city-state could also be done quietly over time). So, that's one interested in seeing the monarchy vs vassals conflict :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 15:31:09 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >>> Middle east? Where exactly? >> >> No place really specific. It's just that I heard that >> Tolkien based his dwarves on the Jewish people (!!!) and >> it really seems to fit. > > I don't see this at all. Care for explanation as to why it > works in your mind? For one, the language looks (to my eye) more middle eastern than European. I'm not talking about their "common" names like Fili, Kili, or Thorin -- those are straight out of the sagas -- but the language just feels very exotic and asian to me. Also the Jews in Europe were often associated with jewelers and bankers -- just as the dwarves were associated with jewelry and wealth. The dwarves were somewhat insular and preserved their own culture and traditions, rather like the Jews have preserved their own heritage through the centuries. Theologically, the dwarves had their own "destiny" in middle earth apart from elves and men, just as some Christians believe(d) that the Jews had their own destiny, yet they were allies and had a common foe. Plus the beard-thing. :-) Anyway I don't think Tolkien did this on purpose -- he did *say* (when asked) that he thought of the dwarves as sort of Jewish, but he didn't give any explanation. The comparison may not really be accurate, but it does fit certain stereotypes that were common 50 years ago. Certainly the very idea of dwarves and many aspects of them were drawn from northern European myth, though I've always wondered where he got the idea for their battle-masks. >> Of course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern >> languages spoken so there's no way I could do an accent. > > Were they that different from present-day Hebrew or Arabic? I don't know, my impressions are based on names I've seen transliterated into English. I've heard that present day Hebrew is rather different from how it was spoken 2500 years ago, but I have no idea personally. I also think the dwarvish names feel similar to some central-Asian names, like around the aral sea or in western China. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:15:18 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metaphysics > That's a pretty wild P.S. !!! Really; mortals shouldn't go around > killing immortals. And not just with a single spell...even if it is a > Radiance spell. : ] The spell only kills the manifestation form that reverts to home plane. To _KILL_ an immortal, he had to Retain Power, and then go to immortal's plane with the power with him and kill him :there:. And if he succeeded, I'm fine with it. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:22:51 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses > >Magical Analysis - As I have disallowed Analyse and Identify IMC, this > Hmmm, that's cool you know. But then again, how do your PCs identify their > stuff? Do the have to use their new items until they finally comprehend > their powers? Or do they have to go on a quest or something? Doesn't it make > your PCs mad? Yes it does. :) Firstly, they can try and find out. That's great if they'll survive it. Or they can sell it without knowing what it is (great source of GM-laughter). Or they can take it to licensed identifier -- costs about 1000dc per item, licenses included. OR an unlicensed one, with *few* risks included. I also introduced a license for possession and use of clerical items, costing mere 1000dc/year. PCs had some time ago a trip to Oenkmar, where they half-accidentally managed to annoy and then kill the high priest Xilochtli (once), taking his magical mace with them. The PC elf then had a magical mace stolen from a priest, which he figured out to be invaluable. He had to buy the license first, because if the mace would have been clerical, he would have been condemned to death for Religion. He wasted 2000dc to find out it was a Mace +1 (PWA). :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:00:40 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the KW > > Yeah, i have always wondered about this as well. For one thing the > > name "Grand Duchy of Karameikos" inferred that it was part of some > larger > > entity. Noone calls a nation "Grand Duchy" unless it used to be or is > still > > part of some other nation. [Jason Murphy] > > Actually, this does not sound right. The concept of "nation" didn't come > about > until some time in the middle ages, at least in Europe. For example, the > Duchy > of Burgundy did not consider itself part of "France", and neither did many > of > > Bruce Heard > [MURPHY Jason] Yup, i may not have been as clear as i could be. My use of nation is not as acurate as i would have wished, but i am sure you knew what i meant :). But the point i was trying to make was that the title "Grand Duchy" infers a current or past membership to some larger entity, which led to a little confusion in my groups early days of gaming in the Karameikos area, as this larger entity wasnt mentioned. And i probably dont need to go on about this as I just read James R's email and he seems to have a good grip on the whole European feudal dynamic :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:37:50 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos (off topic-ish) James Ruhland wrote: >As for the "Grand Duchy" thing, while Bruce is right (re. Burgundy et al. >Note that IIRC Luxemborg is technically a "Grand Duchy of" to this day) Yup, that's right. FYI: it used to belong to the Netherlands in the last century (like Belgium), but when the Netherlands 'got' their first queen, Luxembourg became independant. This was because their laws prohibit (or prohibited, don't know if that's still the case) a female ruler. Their flag resembles the Dutch flag (red, white, blue), but the red is a bit lighter. Thought you'd like to know. Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: James Ruhland [SMTP:jruhlconob@sprynet.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 1999 8:48 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos > > > > > > I'm more than a little suspicious of the notion that Traladara never had > > any monarchs of its own. It could easily be the case that the Thyatians > -- > > the ones who conquered it in 900 AC, not Stefan's later cadre of > > administrators -- took it over, after a genuinely Traladaran royal > family > > died out, or destroyed itself in a war of succession. > > > Well, I got the impression (and I could be wrong. Folks usually assume > that > is the "default" anyhow) that pre-Thyatian absorbtion Traladara was a > disorganized area with separate entities (not "city states" so much), > local > areas governed by headmen (or women), basically an area of warlords > (though > perhaps not very warlike ones) with no overall authority, similar to the > Sklavinic (not Bulgarian) areas of the Balkans between 750 AD and circa > 900 > AD. > Emperess Ierene and Emperor Nikephoros I (re)-absorbed significant > areas > of the Balkans which were occupied by disorganized Sklavinic bands around > the turn of the 9th century. Much of Ierene's gains were lost subsiquently > (to the Bulgars), but Nikephoros' gains (especially in north Greece) were > retained, largely because he had initiated a policy of re-settling the > area > and creating an organized administration for it. (This Nikephoros is the > same dude Bruce was refering to last fall/summer, the guy who ended up as > Krum's drinking cup). > Anyhow, that was my impression of the situation pre-Thyatian > absorbtion; > no overall ruler, just distinct bands/enclaves (Marlenev, Dmitrov, > Sulescu, > etc) lead by a prominent family. The Thyatians largely left these dudes in > charge in the back country, it seems (directly administering only > Specularuam), till Stefan came in and displaced the traditional rulers > with > his own cronies. > As for the "Grand Duchy" thing, while Bruce is right (re. Burgundy > et al. > Note that IIRC Luxemborg is technically a "Grand Duchy of" to this day), > it > should be noted that all these Dukes, Grand Dukes, Princes, etc. who > asserted their autonomy and independence were originally given their > titles > by a suzerian (Chuck "the Big" and his dominate created quite a few, then > his heirs made more. The Ottonians in Germany made a bunch more of these > fiefs, etc). When central authority became ineffectual, these vassals > stoped behaving as vassals and started behaving as sovereigns in their own > right. The more powerful ones (like Burgundy, but also plenty more) could > ignore the so-called "King" because the King's forces were weak. The > Angevin ("English") dominions in Gaul/Frankland/"France" were all > technically fiefs held in vassalage to the French King (which is why > Phillip Augustus was so ticked off), but since they were so much greater > in > size and power than the King's own holdings, the Angevin's could largely > ignore their "monarch" until Phillip managed to outsmart the rather > slow-witted Richard "the Lion Hearted but Spam Brained" and eat away at > them. > Midieval History is certainly not the history of nation-states, but > it is > a history of the struggle between the claims of the monarchy/emperor > (whichever one) vs. the independence-minded/rebellious vassals. More could > be made of this in Mystara, I suppose. But I really doubt anyone is very > interested in seeing, for example, the Baron of Kelvin assert his > soverignity and rebel against Stefan, or in seeing Selenica decide in > favor > of becoming a self-governing City State on the Florentine model. > I now return you to your discussion of Mystara, already in progress. > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #121 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 122 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Killing immortals RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Killing immortals, was and should be "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf relics (was: Elf words; Elf stuff) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:17:07 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Killing immortals >> That's a pretty wild P.S. !!! Really; mortals shouldn't go around >> killing immortals. And not just with a single spell...even if it is >> a Radiance spell. : ] > The spell only kills the manifestation form that reverts to home plane. > To _KILL_ an immortal, he had to Retain Power, and then go to immortal's > plane with the power with him and kill him :there:. And if he succeeded, > I'm fine with it. Umm, yeah. But the "anti"-anti-magic shell sounds a bit too much as well; what level is this Retain Power thingie ?!? And I might be way out of my league here (I haven't done my immortal homework lately), but wasn't there something about magic resistance ? Would that be circumvented as well ? Of course I originally lashed out at you, because I thought the spellcaster would kill the actual immortal, not just his manifestation form. Now, I still think that immortal manifestation forms are also quite powerful compared to ordinary people (though I'm not quite sure here, as I said my immortal homework needs a little update or two); can you destroy it with "ordinary" such as disintegrate and the like ? And there's still a ST at 2 or something like that, right ? But this Retain Power spell also circumvents ST's, right ? I do realize that you wouldn't let a PC kill an immortal on his home plane...At least not just like that .>snaps<. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:35:35 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >> I always >> thought that Khuzdul seemed very exotic, a lot like ancient Chaldean or >> maybe Assyrian... besides the dwarves have long braided beards just like the >> ancient Babylonians! So I tend to see dwarves from that perspective. > > I personally perceive dwarves as central European..Norwegian, Swedish, > Finnish, etc., or at least see them as closer to those groups than any > other. I don't see the language as resembling ANY language we know > of..pretty harsh sounding, emphasis on strong constonants, concise, > to-the-point sentences. Umm, central European ? Isn't that like a little south of the Scandinavian countries you name here ? Oh, well... My knowledge of dwarves is limited, but I *do* live in Scandinavia, right next to Norway and Sweden, and though I'm not a historian, anthropologist, or whatever; here're my thoughts. I recently saw the Ring of the Nibelungen (german opera), based on the viking legends of Asgard, Valhalla, etc. and the dwarves that were portrayed there were greedy (fits well), but of a very dark nature; more like the Duergar (?!?) of Forg. Realms. The vikings had braided beards and their dwarves would probably have those too. But as far as I know these dwarves were more like pixies or something like that, living in the hills (Tolkien, right?), but being of a very prankish nature. They liked to tease people and not in a good-natured way! They were mean and not a little evil. The dwarves were good at gem-cutting and that sort of thing, but I don't think they were great smiths...As I recall it, the giants (especially) and some of the gods, as well as some witches were the great smiths of viking legend. >> dwarf" stereotype was very Tolkienish at all. But then neither >> are D&D elves. ;-) > Arrogant, pointy-eared scum. Sounds like they're straight from Tolkien to > me. Then again, I could care less for elves. Oooh kaaay. ,-) (Odin winking, get it? : )) Jacob, Denmark Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:58:00 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Killing immortals, was and should be "Metaphysics" > > The spell only kills the manifestation form that reverts to home plane. > > To _KILL_ an immortal, he had to Retain Power, and then go to immortal's > > plane with the power with him and kill him :there:. And if he succeeded, > > Umm, yeah. But the "anti"-anti-magic shell sounds a bit too much as > well; what level is this Retain Power thingie ?!? And I might be way > out of my league here (I haven't done my immortal homework lately), > but wasn't there something about magic resistance ? Would that be > circumvented as well ? IMC the Radiance Magic comes from an artifact source as I explained a while ago. Thus, calling radiance energy is normal magic, but it's effects are immortal magic. And the immortal magic-resistance works IIRC against mortal magic -- not against the radiance. > update or two); can you destroy it with "ordinary" such as > disintegrate and the like ? And there's still a ST at 2 or something > like that, right ? But this Retain Power spell also circumvents ST's, > right ? Incorporeal form practically cannot be killed, Mortal Identities have mortal vulnerabilities (can be killed by disintegrate), but the Manifestation Form (Immortal starring as himself) is not easy to beat. > I do realize that you wouldn't let a PC kill an immortal on his home > plane...At least not just like that .>snaps<. They heal all their hp's every round... - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:02:53 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" >>> The spell only kills the manifestation form that reverts to home >>> plane. >>> To _KILL_ an immortal, he had to Retain Power, and then go to immortal's >>> plane with the power with him and kill him :there:. And if he succeeded, >> >> Umm, yeah. But the "anti"-anti-magic shell sounds a bit too much as >> well; what level is this Retain Power thingie ?!? And I might be way >> out of my league here (I haven't done my immortal homework lately), >> but wasn't there something about magic resistance ? Would that be >> circumvented as well ? > > IMC the Radiance Magic comes from an artifact source as I explained a > while ago. Thus, calling radiance energy is normal magic, but it's > effects are immortal magic. And the immortal magic-resistance works IIRC > against mortal magic -- not against the radiance. OK, but what level was the spell ? Not that it matters in this particular discussion, but I'd like to know... BTW do Radiance wizards call upon the power of the artifact itself ? Is this like using an artifact and incurring penalties and handicaps ? I realize that the wasting disease contributed to the Radiance is a pretty strong handicap, but there must be more than this for such a major- greater-super-artifact... >> update or two); can you destroy it with "ordinary" such as >> disintegrate and the like ? And there's still a ST at 2 or something >> like that, right ? But this Retain Power spell also circumvents ST's, >> right ? > > Incorporeal form practically cannot be killed, Mortal Identities have > mortal vulnerabilities (can be killed by disintegrate), but the > Manifestation Form (Immortal starring as himself) is not easy to beat. But still no ST vs. Retain Power ? >> I do realize that you wouldn't let a PC kill an immortal on his home >> plane...At least not just like that .>snaps<. > > They heal all their hp's every round... But they don't make all their ST's every round, right ? So are they vulnerable to any spells ?!? Retain Power, since it is immortal-level magic ? Mind you, I have no idea what Retain Power does... Jacob, Denmark Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:57:45 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" > > IMC the Radiance Magic comes from an artifact source as I explained a > > while ago. Thus, calling radiance energy is normal magic, but it's > > effects are immortal magic. And the immortal magic-resistance works IIRC > > against mortal magic -- not against the radiance. > OK, but what level was the spell ? Not that it matters in this > particular discussion, but I'd like to know... Retain Power is 7th and Discharge 8th level. Via Retain Power mage infuses himself with the Randiance Energy for later release, and Discharge is comparable to Fireball-sized nuclear detonation. > BTW do Radiance wizards call upon the power of the artifact itself ? Is > this like using an artifact and incurring penalties and handicaps ? I > realize that the wasting disease contributed to the Radiance is a > pretty strong handicap, but there must be more than this for such a > major- greater-super-artifact... There are three significant drawbacks with the Nucleus. First is the rotting disease ending in lichdom (at best), and which is incurable even by Wish. Second is the magic-drain on mystara, nearly incurable even by immortal magic. The magic-drain ends eventually on nucleus exploding and turning entire Glantri to Broken Lands. Third is that those trying to Transcend the Life Force and fail the subsequent tests are drawn to the Nucleus and used as power source -- ending in nothingness and utter destruction of soul. Harnessing the energy of Nucleus is a life-long project prducing only few truly useful applications (like the over-powered Control Destiny) with grave risks balanced by a great reward in the end. But yes, the mages use the power produced by the artifact by harnessing it with mortal magics. > > Incorporeal form practically cannot be killed, Mortal Identities have > > mortal vulnerabilities (can be killed by disintegrate), but the > > Manifestation Form (Immortal starring as himself) is not easy to beat. > But still no ST vs. Retain Power ? ? Immortals get the immortal saving throws against artifact (and IMC Radiance) attacks. One good way to kill an Immortal is to take *any* artifact and bash him in the head until he dies. Wife of Ilmarinen is much more effective crushing weapon than any mundane or magical sword against an Immortal. > > They heal all their hp's every round... > But they don't make all their ST's every round, right ? So are they > vulnerable to any spells ?!? Retain Power, since it is immortal-level > magic ? Mind you, I have no idea what Retain Power does... Uh, Retain Power is spell with which mage creates a personal reserve of Radiance Power, by tapping the energy and storing it to his person. Only by Retain Power (or custom design spells) he can take Radiance to the outher planes of existence. THEN he had to go to Immortal's home level and bash him down --in a single combat round-- with Discharge, which is practically even weaker than the Fireball. Theoretically it might be possible if the Immortal had few hp:s and the mage rolled great damage with discharge -- and the Immortal failed his saving throw. Practically this is impossible feat. Why I brought the subjec in my P.S. was to point out that Radiance is an Artifact source of Magic -- comparable to other artifacts. And as well as artifact attacks can destroy artifacts, dispel immortal magics and even do severe damage to the manifestation forms, it is important that it is noted that Radiance can do these things, too! Different kinds of counterspelling magic usually work against the Radiance, for the spells which tap on the Radiance, are mortal spells. But the energy and effects released are Immortal level effects -- therefore undispellable. It is to be noted that here my vision strongly differs from KoM, which says that Anti-Magic Shell would protect from the Discharge, but I mostly use Gaz3, on which I have created my logic of magic. - Markus P.S. Nothing will ever surpass the munchkinity of Slow, Haste and the worst-of-all combination of Magic Defiance Undone and the Feeblemind. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:35:17 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf relics (was: Elf words; Elf stuff) >Shame!! Well, I'll have a go, if I may; it'll probably take a while, and may >not work out, but it'll be fun trying.... :-D > >Carl Q. Be my guest! I'd have run with the relic/animal idea myself, except I'm kind of hip-deep in the Hollow Moon, for the foreseeable future. I'll look forward to reading about these critters: any clan-relic that a wise guy like Eiryndel came up with, is bound to have "trouble" built right in! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:17:18 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos >What seems to be the nation of Traladara is really the >city-state of Marilenev and a very few interior villages. so, it looks >like Marilenev and the southern villages were the kingdom of Traladara. >Probably resembling Darokin more than the later Grand Duchy of >Karameikos. Well, that's more or less what I'd been thinking: that Marilenev, not the whole Traladaran region, might have had kings of its own. Indeed, Marilenev must've had SOME kind of a war-leader, because the forests beyond its immediate domain were crawling with humanoids (goblins, etc) until very recently! So the city would've had to defend itself ... something for which you usually need a single military commander, NOT a bunch of fractious merchant-clans who can't stand each other, in charge. So, perhaps there was a House of Marilenev that ruled the city, and the lesser villages along the coastline owed them fealty. This hypothetical family might have ousted the "royals" of the Slagovich region -- probably just rebellious nobles, not "royalty" as yet -- in the 5th century AC, forcing those SC princes to emigrate to the distant west. The Marilenevs then converted what had been an isolationist fortress-city into a real trading hub, accounting for the gradual rebirth of the Traladaran economy; that's when native noble households, like the Radus and Torenescus, would have gone into shipping and made their fortunes. (Conversely, the exiled households of the West remained old-fashioned and militant, retaining the Knights of Halav and founding their own petty, squabbling city-states.) Such a local dynasty could've reigned over Marilenev for some time, as the Traladarans recovered from their Dark Age and the Church of Traladara, with its polytheistic trio of Immortals, became established. But then, the royal line of Marilenevs died out or was seriously disgraced, and the system of fealty that'd kept the nobles-turned-merchants (a bit like old Russ boyars) from each others' throats broke down. The resulting strife weakened the Traladarans, and left their city -- and their lands, along with it -- ripe for Thyatis to snap up. Families that'd once been nobles were disentitled by the Thyatian governors, demoting them to "clans" (which is merely what outsiders call hereditary nobles whose status they don't want to acknowledge, IMHO ;-D), and the last members of Marilenev's true royal bloodline, if any, were quietly deported or killed. The original Marilenev royals could've intermarried with the still-extant Traladaran noble clans, in times past, giving a lot of different native families a tenuous claim on being the rightful (Traladaran) heirs to the throne ... Stefan and his "foreign" rule, nonwithstanding. Thus, if there's ever a MAJOR falling-out between the native and Thyatian elements of Karameikan society, some ambitious Traladaran clans might go for broke, and throw their weight behind expeling the Thyatians in their bid for the kingship of a "free" Traladara. >> There are feudal rulers in Slagovich and other City-States of the Savage >> Coast setting, so obviously the idea of a feudal monarchy isn't so >> unheard-of among the Traladarans; it's them, whom the RS boxed set credits >> with introducing feudalism to the region, in the first place! > >Maybe this feudal system is spread before King Halav. But back then, the Traladarans were still the Traldar M-Greeks ... not feudal, at all! And the RS boxed set dates the Traladarans' arrival in the Slagovich region to 450 AC. >This is a problem I find very often with Karameikos. Its not very well >explained and what is explained doesn't fit exactly. There are no >mentions of kings after Halav, interior villages seem rather new yet >they've been around since before the crowning of the Thyatian emperor, >it goes through a period of regrowth but only Marilenev is the one that >profits, and its spread out as far as the Savage Coast when it could >barely support itself. That's another thing that's incongruous: the idea that old Traladara was dirt-poor. While the backwoods villages certainly were, Marilenev must've been a pretty impressive place, by the time the Thyatians took it over! Take another look at the map of Specularum/Mirros. See how much of the city lies within the Traladaran-built "old wall"? THAT'S a good-sized port, in itself! The only urban expansion which Stefan and prior Thyatian governors can claim much credit for is the addition of a Foreign Quarter. Maybe this is case of Thyatian propaganda, in which Traladarans were systematically fed a false history by governors who had every reason to let their subject-peoples' past glories be forgotten. Perhaps Traladara DID have its own monarchy, and Marilenev WAS a thriving port, before the Thyatians took it over ... only the Thyatian governors before Stefan suppressed the knowledge of these things, in favor of a "Thyatianized" view of Traladara as a destitute backwater. In a mostly-illiterate region like Traladara, it wouldn't have taken much effort to spread such misinformation - -- particularly when most noble families (who'd otherwise be repositories of tradition) are kissing up to the governors, in hopes of retaining their lands -- and the Thyatians had seventy years of colonial administration, in which to do so. I'm not saying it HAD to be like that ... but it certainly could have. And it opens up new possibilities for the future, if Stefan's successors turn out to be less adept than he, at keeping Traladarans and Thyatians on good terms! While Gaz1 makes out the anti-Thyatian Traladarans to be disorganized and politically naive -- able to cause riots and/or get manipulated by the Veiled Society, but little else -- they could have a lot more potential, as a focus for intrigue-style adventures, if there's some real basis for their long-standing criticism of Thyatians' (not necessarily Stefan's) rule. Even more so, if a lost heir to the royal House of Marilenev -- real or fake -- should turn up at the right (i.e. wrong) moment. Guess I'm just in a rabble-rousing mood right now. Down with the pandering Thyatian oppressors! Up, great Marilenev and Holy Halav's True Heir! :-D >The real question is why the borders of >Karameikos exist as they do. There's no way the Traladaran people could >hold those against Darokin or Thyatis, yet those borders are the ones >Karameikos inherits when we know its mostly a wilderness nation :) Thyatis may have stayed out due to its long-standing treaties with the Vyalia elves, who probably called eastern Karameikos their own, at the time human/elf relations in Thyatis were established. Not that the Thyatians don't break treaties... but the imperial throne knows the elves' value, and that of the Foresters, so wouldn't want to outrage the Vyalia. Annexing Marilenev, later on, performed an "end run" around the elves -- thus, giving those Vyalia west of the erstwhile border (who could now claim Thyatian citizenship) no cause for complaint -- at which point, Thyatis also claimed all the land from its old border to the Five Shires. Darokin might well have owned a chunk of Traladara in the past -- remember, it used to be lots bigger, under the Eastwind kings -- but its borders have shrunk since then and are still just being settled. Why expand into somebody else's wilderness, when you're barely getting your own under control? Later, as Marilenev became prosperous, Darokinians might've been tempted; but the Republic didn't unite until 927, by which time Thyatis had already snapped it up. To be honest, the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why the hin -- who allegedly AREN'T the stay-at-homes that halflings in other worlds are thought to be! - -- let a little thing like a marshy border keep them out of the Karameikan west. The Black Eagle Barony might not have been founded yet, but the unsettled area would have ALWAYS been a breeding ground for humanoid raiders ... one which those ferocious hin of Gaz8, with their loooooong history of hatred for orc-kin, would've surely loved to extirpate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:38:32 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > Such a local dynasty could've reigned over Marilenev for some time, as the > Traladarans recovered from their Dark Age and the Church of Traladara, with > its polytheistic trio of Immortals, became established. But then, the > royal line of Marilenevs died out or was seriously disgraced, and the > system of fealty that'd kept the nobles-turned-merchants (a bit like old > Russ boyars) from each others' throats broke down. The resulting strife > weakened the Traladarans, and left their city -- and their lands, along > with it -- ripe for Thyatis to snap up. Families that'd once been nobles > were disentitled by the Thyatian governors, demoting them to "clans" (which > is merely what outsiders call hereditary nobles whose status they don't > want to acknowledge, IMHO ;-D), and the last members of Marilenev's true > royal bloodline, if any, were quietly deported or killed. This has got me thinking (please, everyone move to the safe areas). We know that Marilenev staged a revolt against Stefan and most of their men are killed. Maybe this unnamed Marilenev possible king was executed? Reading through the Karameikan literature, it does seem they go out of the way to show that there was no single ruling family. Even going as far to suggest Traladara was heading toward a council rule. But if that's true, why so few villages with the other Traladaran clan names. Why is Marilenev the capital of the region? Its possible that the living Marilenev are the Traladaran royal family and Lady Marilenev the leading member who would have been queen (unless the Traladarans have something against women on the throne). Maybe the death of their males was a direct attempt to extingish the Marilenev bloodline. If she keeps stirring up trouble, Stefan could have her beheaded! Poor Stefan could be a real bastard if we'd get rid of that lawful good alignment :D Argh! I guess the only way to settle it is to blame it all on the Thyatian Empire. That the Grand Duchy was just that with Stefan more or less told how his duchy should be run. > The original Marilenev royals could've intermarried with the still-extant > Traladaran noble clans, in times past, giving a lot of different native > families a tenuous claim on being the rightful (Traladaran) heirs to the > throne ... Stefan and his "foreign" rule, nonwithstanding. Thus, if > there's ever a MAJOR falling-out between the native and Thyatian elements > of Karameikan society, some ambitious Traladaran clans might go for broke, > and throw their weight behind expeling the Thyatians in their bid for the > kingship of a "free" Traladara. Perhaps. I'm adding more significance to the Marilenev leading the original revolt. That clan is where the power was (unless they manage to put a male babe in a small raft to hide from the Thyatians ala Moses). The Return of the Traladaran King :) > But back then, the Traladarans were still the Traldar M-Greeks ... not > feudal, at all! And the RS boxed set dates the Traladarans' arrival in the > Slagovich region to 450 AC. That puts it somewhere during the growth of Marilenev. That's my problem with it. Marilenev is slowly growing yet sail around the Serpent Pennisula carrying feudalism. Perhaps a displaced clan carries it. I just can't wrap my mind around them doing this with all these other traders around. Marilenev seems simply to be a gateway to the world for the interior villages (that aren't supposed to be there yet). > That's another thing that's incongruous: the idea that old Traladara was > dirt-poor. While the backwoods villages certainly were, Marilenev must've > been a pretty impressive place, by the time the Thyatians took it over! True but they still say only 500 people lived there when Thyatis conquerored them (I might be wrong though). > Maybe this is case of Thyatian propaganda, in which Traladarans were > systematically fed a false history by governors who had every reason to let > their subject-peoples' past glories be forgotten. Perhaps Traladara DID > have its own monarchy, and Marilenev WAS a thriving port, before the > Thyatians took it over ... only the Thyatian governors before Stefan > suppressed the knowledge of these things, in favor of a "Thyatianized" view > of Traladara as a destitute backwater. In a mostly-illiterate region like > Traladara, it wouldn't have taken much effort to spread such misinformation > -- particularly when most noble families (who'd otherwise be repositories > of tradition) are kissing up to the governors, in hopes of retaining their > lands -- and the Thyatians had seventy years of colonial administration, in > which to do so. That does seem to be the case (time to start redigging into Traladara's history :) But what effect with this have on the emperor's willingness to trade Traladara to Karameikos. Could say the governors lied about Traladara's wealth thought I prefer going with Stefan being the only one thinking he was recieving autonomy. Just a way to swindle him out of his ancestors lands while getting him to bring Traladara fully into the Thyatian Empire. > I'm not saying it HAD to be like that ... but it certainly could have. And > it opens up new possibilities for the future, if Stefan's successors turn > out to be less adept than he, at keeping Traladarans and Thyatians on good > terms! While Gaz1 makes out the anti-Thyatian Traladarans to be > disorganized and politically naive -- able to cause riots and/or get > manipulated by the Veiled Society, but little else -- they could have a lot > more potential, as a focus for intrigue-style adventures, if there's some > real basis for their long-standing criticism of Thyatians' (not necessarily > Stefan's) rule. Even more so, if a lost heir to the royal House of > Marilenev -- real or fake -- should turn up at the right (i.e. wrong) > moment. This is something I find intriguing about Stefan. He's been able to come to the Traladaran people as something other than a Thyatian (for the most part). He's like Bill Clinton. Nothing seems to harm him :) I can't explain either so with Stefan, the best I can do is that he's Halav's choice. > Guess I'm just in a rabble-rousing mood right now. Down with the pandering > Thyatian oppressors! Up, great Marilenev and Holy Halav's True Heir! :-D To the gallows with her!! ;> > Thyatis may have stayed out due to its long-standing treaties with the > Vyalia elves, who probably called eastern Karameikos their own, at the time > human/elf relations in Thyatis were established. Not that the Thyatians > don't break treaties... but the imperial throne knows the elves' value, and > that of the Foresters, so wouldn't want to outrage the Vyalia. Annexing > Marilenev, later on, performed an "end run" around the elves -- thus, > giving those Vyalia west of the erstwhile border (who could now claim > Thyatian citizenship) no cause for complaint -- at which point, Thyatis > also claimed all the land from its old border to the Five Shires. I see the Vyalia elves as considering themselves a nation within a nation. Thyatis or Karameikos may claim their lands as part of their nation but silly human thoughts are no concern of theirs. I'm not sure that I agree with the logic behind the Foresters. Vyalia seem the most hostile elves outside of Alfhiem. > Darokin might well have owned a chunk of Traladara in the past -- remember, > it used to be lots bigger, under the Eastwind kings -- but its borders have > shrunk since then and are still just being settled. Why expand into > somebody else's wilderness, when you're barely getting your own under > control? Later, as Marilenev became prosperous, Darokinians might've been > tempted; but the Republic didn't unite until 927, by which time Thyatis had > already snapped it up. I hadn't considered that. It always seemed like the western border was only lines on paper without anyone controlling much on either side. > To be honest, the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why the hin -- who allegedly > AREN'T the stay-at-homes that halflings in other worlds are thought to be! > -- let a little thing like a marshy border keep them out of the Karameikan > west. The Black Eagle Barony might not have been founded yet, but the > unsettled area would have ALWAYS been a breeding ground for humanoid > raiders ... one which those ferocious hin of Gaz8, with their loooooong > history of hatred for orc-kin, would've surely loved to extirpate. I've played around with having Karameikos annex the Shires. Since I don't give much weight to borders, halflings could inhabit much of the western part of Karameikos (especially the lands around the four rivers) blurring the borders of the Shires. essentially making it a region in Karameikos. The Shires are the extent of where they would fall back to if needed. Halflings are always describe as merging within human and elf cultures without a true culture of their own. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:37:43 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [talking about middle-east dwarven accents] >No place really specific. It's just that I heard that Tolkien based his >dwarves on the Jewish people (!!!) and it really seems to fit. Hmmmm, considering the well-known fact that Tolkien was a rascist S.O.B., I find it quite hard to believe. :-) I mean, the archtypes (sp?!!) of ultimate "good" came from the West, the Beatiful People (the Elves, not Marilyn Manson) are always fair-skinned and VERY tall, coupled with the fact that (later in his books, mainly LotR) the evil men had dark hair & skin, not to mention even asian-like eyes or yellow skin! FYI, I definetely *love* Tolkien's work, but I'm not blind to the obvious. ;-) > I always >thought that Khuzdul seemed very exotic, a lot like ancient Chaldean or >maybe Assyrian... besides the dwarves have long braided beards just like the >ancient Babylonians! So I tend to see dwarves from that perspective. You have a point there. Do you know what kind of weapons did the Babylonians favored? Maybe axes? Hammers? :-) Hammer-abi? :)) >course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern languages spoken so >there's no way I could do an accent. I've heard Idish (an ancient jewish dialect), and let me tell you, it's sounds as harsh as German! :-O OTOH, Hebrew features very open vowel sounds and lots of 'l's and 'd'. Maybe some guys from Israel can shed some light on this! >Besides, it kind of seems like poetic justice to me. A lot of people >complain that D&D is too much like Tolkien, but I never thought the "german >dwarf" stereotype was very Tolkienish at all. They've always reminded me the old Norse mythos. But wait, the Norse dwarves are different from these, the Norse *men* (the way they fought their wars, built their dwellings and lived in general) are the ones like Mystara's dwarves. They liked ships though. :) BTW, Gimli is IIRC some kind of 'heaven' for norse dwarves. Oh yes, JRR liked the old mythos. > But then neither are D&D elves. ;-) I don't understand why no fantasy RPG has yet incorporated the concept of elven miners living in stone palaces. In fact, the elves of the 1st age (Tolkienwise, that is) -the Noldor in particular- were masters in the arts of crafting jewelry. Remember the Silmarils! They were made by Fëanor, an Elf! Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:40:23 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >certain stereotypes that were common 50 years ago. Certainly the very idea >of dwarves and many aspects of them were drawn from northern European myth, >though I've always wondered where he got the idea for their battle-masks. > Japanese warlords (samurais in particular) always wore battle masks. Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:46:54 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses >I also introduced a license for possession and use of clerical items, >costing mere 1000dc/year. PCs had some time ago a trip to Oenkmar, where >they half-accidentally managed to annoy and then kill the high priest >Xilochtli (once), taking his magical mace with them. The PC elf then had >a magical mace stolen from a priest, which he figured out to be >invaluable. He had to buy the license first, because if the mace would >have been clerical, he would have been condemned to death for Religion. > >He wasted 2000dc to find out it was a Mace +1 (PWA). :) > > > - Markus > Man, your PCs must love you very much or you must be some hell of a DM! :) If they still want to play after this kind of 'treatment' I mean. ;) OTOH, it took me almost 50.000 gp to identify my mace +4 (taken from the Neutral Hag at the End of the Test of the Warlords... or was it Red Arrow Black Shield? No, it must be TotW. They were 3 hags, one of each alignment. The Chaotic had a mace +5, with slow, the Neutral my mace +4, and the Lawful a mace +5/+5 to chaotic beings (+10!!!!!). We were able to dispatch just the neutral, mind you) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:52:42 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Hi, I'm in this thread too, but somewhere else... :) >I recently saw the Ring of the Nibelungen (german opera), based on >the viking legends of Asgard, Valhalla, etc. and the dwarves that >were portrayed there were greedy (fits well), but of a very dark >nature; more like the Duergar (?!?) of Forg. Realms. > That's what I was saying. Don't you think that the viking humans are more close to the dwarves than the actual viking dwarves? [what a sentence! ;)] >> Arrogant, pointy-eared scum. Sounds like they're straight from Tolkien to >> me. Then again, I could care less for elves. > >Oooh kaaay. ,-) (Odin winking, get it? : )) > The Noldor (the 1st-age Tolkien elves) rule! Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #122 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 11 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 123 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Fw: Dragon Magazine Distribution Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 00:22:58 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >I don't understand why no fantasy RPG has yet incorporated the concept of >elven miners living in stone palaces. In fact, the elves of the 1st age >(Tolkienwise, that is) -the Noldor in particular- were masters in the arts >of crafting jewelry. The Gray Elves from the old, long-OOP "Elves" game supplement from RoleAids were like that. It was one of the few products I've seen, that broke drastically with the usual AD&D interpretations of elves -- there were half-elven horse nomads, lazy high-elven fops, and dark elves who acted more like sicko serial killers than spider-buffs -- and the enclosed adventure's got a fairly JRRT-style plot and backstory for the elven races, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:47:13 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Karameikos could be, and some of its literature suggests that indeed it is, a place where both a temporal and a religious leader once existed, and that two separate groups each controlled one of these two positions before the final assimilation of the Tral- root race and language into the Thyatian and "Milenian" conquerors. Thus Halav is a Priest-King, with an attendant Tanist (royal double) and a legitimising and probably far earlier matriarchal or mother-goddess tradition covered by the Petra figure. Then, as in Kathmandu's early culture, the kingship was separated out through dynastic machinations and political necessities (death of heirs, suppression, religious struggles) into a religious Heir who was increasingly (and wrongly) seen as a purely ritual and religious figure, and a totally secular administrative leader of later provenance who was simply the current ruler of the area. The current 'King' Stephen may actually be a true descendant of both the priest and king sides of the originally unified bloodline of priest-kings, and thus would be a true inheritor of both secular and religious rights to the land. Overlaying this is the successive political and Thyatian-style concepts of what a stronghold-centred warlord and administrator should do - a role that the original Traldar may have had carried out by a caste of Scribes or even by individual specialised Temples. The deceptive thign aout Karameikos is that its eastern european mask conceals a radically oriental origin and structure of the existing land. As Inoted before, whether by accident or design there is a fair amount of esoterica wrapped up in the 'givens' of the known world. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 09:42:43 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Considering the number of Traladaran nobles existing a couple of centuries before present day (Morphail, Sulescu, the Koriszegy vampire, and probably also the ancestors of some of the SC City-State rulers) it seems that some Traladaran "kingdoms" should have existed before the Thyatian invasion, though most of these had already been destroyed when the Thyatians arrived. Using some of the contributions found on the list or around the web (History of Glantri [HG] and Achelos adventure [AA] are those I recall now), I decided that the following Traladaran holdings existed IMC: the kingdoms of Achelos (Western Karameikos, AA) and Halavos (Kelvin, HG), the Baronies of Volaga and Ivorga (along the rivers in Eastern Karameikos, HG), the Counties of Rimskygrad (between modern Penhaligon and Kelvin, HG) and Korszegy (around Koriszegy Tower), and the State of Halag. These add to the canon estates of Sulescu and Marilenev. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:48:03 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses > >He wasted 2000dc to find out it was a Mace +1 (PWA). :) > > Man, your PCs must love you very much or you must be some hell of a DM! :) > If they still want to play after this kind of 'treatment' I mean. ;) Everything was stated out beforehand. That mace is defined in PWA, and I had earlier in the campaign sold out licenses for religious equipment and established the stable 1000dc price of licensed id. And they picked up the fight with Xilochtli for their own dumbness in the first place. But yes, I am a hell of a DM, or so I've been told. Dunno. > OTOH, it took me almost 50.000 gp to identify my mace +4 (taken from the > Neutral Hag at the End of the Test of the Warlords... or was it Red Arrow > Black Shield? No, it must be TotW. They were 3 hags, one of each alignment. > The Chaotic had a mace +5, with slow, the Neutral my mace +4, and the Lawful > a mace +5/+5 to chaotic beings (+10!!!!!). We were able to dispatch just the > neutral, mind you) Whoosh. Over-power? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 10:35:47 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > >I recently saw the Ring of the Nibelungen (german opera), based on > >the viking legends of Asgard, Valhalla, etc. and the dwarves that > >were portrayed there were greedy (fits well), but of a very dark > >nature; more like the Duergar (?!?) of Forg. Realms. > > > > That's what I was saying. Don't you think that the viking humans are more > close to the dwarves than the actual viking dwarves? [what a sentence! ;)] Umm, well I don't think the viking dwarves fit...and I don't know about the viking humans...Apperance might be very similar (I think), but then the vikings were well known for sailing, and they didn't exactly live in caves...They sure did love fighting and gold though, and loved quality weaponry (who deosn't ?). So I don't know, the viking humans fit reasonably, adn, I think, better than the viking dwarves. (Yes, these sentences get pretty complicated) :& !!! Jacob, Denmark Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 07:59:42 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > >course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern languages spoken so > >there's no way I could do an accent. > > I've heard Idish (an ancient jewish dialect), and let me tell you, it's > sounds as harsh as German! :-O Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew and German, so it *should* sound like German. Both Yiddish and the language developed by Spanish Jewry (whose name I can never recall) developed after Hebrew though, and neither is truly middle eastern. > OTOH, Hebrew features very open vowel sounds > and lots of 'l's and 'd'. Well, just for fun, here're two badly transliterated section from a prayerbook: Halliluyah Hallilu Et (G-d's name) Min Hashamayim Hallilu Bamromim. Hallilu kol malakhav hallilu kol tzvaav. Hallilu shemesh v'yareyakh hallilu kol cokhvay oor. Mizmor L'asaf. Elokim Nitzav B'adat el b'kerev elokim yishput ad matai tishpitu avel oophnei risha-im tisha-oo selah. Shiftu dal v'yatom ani varash hatzdiku. I never notice many 'l' and 'd's sounds in Hebrew personally, but I haven't really ever paid attention. > Maybe some guys from Israel can shed some light on this! Or some American guys with little knowledge of Hebrew ;) Good lord...12 years of Hebrew, 4 years of French and growing up in a household where my parents spoke German alot and all I know well is English. Pathetic, huh? > are different from these, the Norse *men* (the way they fought their wars, > built their dwellings and lived in general) are the ones like Mystara's > dwarves. They liked ships though. :) BTW, Gimli is IIRC some kind of And pointed helmets and axes :) I have little knowledge of ancient Viking culture, so am not sure how true the comparison holds. The dwarves meet the stereotypical Viking image in a few ways at least - whether they compare at all to the true culture is a whole different question. - - Mischa Public officials are not always admiring of men who say what the right policy should be. Their frequent need, especially in foreign affairs, is for men who will find persuasive reasons for the wrong policy - John Kenneth Galbraith *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 08:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > >> Of course I've never heard any ancient middle eastern > >> languages spoken so there's no way I could do an accent. > > > > Were they that different from present-day Hebrew or Arabic? > > I don't know, my impressions are based on names I've seen transliterated > into English. I've heard that present day Hebrew is rather different from > how it was spoken 2500 years ago, but I have no idea personally. Some words in ancient, biblical Hebrew are no longer used, and many new words have come into use, but the sound and tone of the language should sound the same. I, for one, haven't noticed a difference between the two. I cannot answer as to differences in Arabic then and now. - - Mischa Gelman Pittsburgh, PA Public officials are not always admiring of men who say what the right policy should be. Their frequent need, especially in foreign affairs, is for men who will find persuasive reasons for the wrong policy - John Kenneth Galbraith *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:26:35 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: Hebrew, maybe what the person means is the difference betweem ARAMAIC and Hebiru languages - the Aramaic of 0 AD and the Hebrew language of today are not that similar at all. On topic, I never saw the big deal about accents - it seems a bit too racially stereotypical to have eg the Warcraft / Warhammer scottish Dwarves - pretty lame stuff. Same goes for Jewish Dwarves or whatever - sayign Jews are usually jewellers is like saying basketball players are black - it's bollocks. And even were it true on Earth, why would it follow on an alien parallel world like Mystara..? :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:01:04 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos >> That's another thing that's incongruous: the idea that old Traladara was >> dirt-poor. While the backwoods villages certainly were, Marilenev must've >> been a pretty impressive place, by the time the Thyatians took it over! > >True but they still say only 500 people lived there when Thyatis >conquerored them (I might be wrong though). LOL! Why (and HOW, for that matter) would a mere village of 500 people have built defenses as big as the "old wall" of Mirros?! My guess is that the Thyatian census of Marilenev, that gave us that ridiculously small number, came at a time when the city had already been evacuated, either for fear of the imperial invaders or as a consequence of Traladara's own internal strife. "500" might be how many troops stayed behind, trying to hold out against the Thyatians; noncombatants and less-confident boyars would've fallen back, into the forests, before then. Not to mention that the Thyatians may not have counted every man, woman and child, in their census: the Emperor'd be more interested in the number of fit male workers, and potential rebels, living in the city, than in how many rugrats or little old babushki there were. In fact, a massive flight of refugees, in the aftermath of a Marilenev civil war, might account for why so many of the villages in Karameikos seem too "young"! Most could have been founded by Traladarans who took to the woods in 900 AC, in an attempt to avoid the Thyatians' siezing their property or hauling them back to Thyatis City as slaves. (Traladara'd been preyed upon by slavers, most of them Thyatians or in the employ of Thyatians, for generations.) Indeed, the fact that so few of these hypothetical refugees returned to Marilenev, when things calmed down, might suggest that slavers, or goblins, took a heavy toll on them. Maybe we've stumbled upon the first historical stirrings of the Iron Ring! >That does seem to be the case (time to start redigging into Traladara's >history :) But what effect with this have on the emperor's willingness >to trade Traladara to Karameikos. Could say the governors lied about >Traladara's wealth thought I prefer going with Stefan being the only one >thinking he was recieving autonomy. Just a way to swindle him out of >his ancestors lands while getting him to bring Traladara fully into the >Thyatian Empire. So maybe the country WAS well-off, when Thyatis first took over! But, as a colony that'd been grabbed for pure profit, it was methodically run into the ground by greedy or mismanaging governors ... much as Machetos has been pretty well ruined, under Thincol's stewards. By the time Stefan offered to "take it off his hands", Thyatis could have trashed the Traladaran economy and driven the Traladarans into a state of near-revolt! Thinking he's sticking it to his ol' drinking buddy, Thincol trades the no-longer-profitable Traladara for Machetos (yet another region to exploit). Stefan then boots out Traladara's last unpopular governor -- which earns him some respect and gratitude from the long-suffering natives, who'd hated his predecessor's guts -- and the disgruntled but overmatched Traladarans reluctantly give this charismatic newcomer a chance to show he's NOT such a cad, as the detached, indifferent imperial administrators they had previously endured. If we're re-vamping Karameikan history, let's not do it half-way! :-D >> Guess I'm just in a rabble-rousing mood right now. Down with the pandering >> Thyatian oppressors! Up, great Marilenev and Holy Halav's True Heir! :-D > >To the gallows with her!! ;> Hey, they had a LOT more creative means of execution than hanging, for rebels, in Eastern Europe...! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:17:33 -0000 From: "wilson tse" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fw: Dragon Magazine Distribution This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01BE6BFC.327C7360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable - -----Original Message----- From: towonder@concentric.net Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd Date: 11 March 1999 19:25 Subject: Dragon Magazine Distribution This was recently posted on the Realms-L mailing list, and I figured I'd pass it along, as per Keiths's request. [BEGIN INSERTED MESSAGE] Subject: Re: [FR] MISC:Finding TSR Products (was Dark Times at = Bookstores) At 04:13 PM 3/10/99 EST, you wrote: >from the response that i have seen on this list it looks like there is = a >problem. that problem started with the dark times when TSR was not >shipping product and the book store chains were not getting anything = but >questions from customers, along with old product and bad product ideas > that did not sell they might have been leery about getting new product >in. >the problem was that nobody was telling the national distribution or = the book >chains what the problem was or the fact that TSR is back in the game = with the >backing of WOTC and is here to stay.(thanks for saving my game, WOTC) >What needs to be done is to educate the book chains and let them know = TSR is >back and going strong and to get the gamers back from the hobby shops, >unfortitly the people that order for the book chains are not gamers and = as >such don't know what is happening in the industry. >I will state that it is not the fault of TSR or WOTC that the book = chains >don't have product, our friends would have them carry everything. >A two prong fix is for us to call the book chains 800 number and ask = for them >to carry the product and for TSR/WOTC marketing to let them know that = there >here to stay. This was such an important post that I wanted to respond to it personally and let our consumers know exactly what is happening in terms = of bookstore chains and our products. TSR deals with one single distributor to the book trade; that distributor is Random House. Random House services all of the major = book chains and a number of smaller bookstores. As soon as WOTC/TSR started = to move products back into the channel, Random House worked hard to get all = of its previous accounts up to speed on the rebirth of TSR. I've spoken = with Loren Greenwood, VP of Sales for WOTC, and he informed me that all of Random House's accounts that carried TSR products before the buyout currently carry TSR products. So the short of it is, the book trade knows that TSR is back. As far = as not being able to find products, remember that bookstores are not = dedicated hobby stores willing to carry every SKU TSR has ever produced. Shelf = space in successful book chains equals revenue for the store, and they want to fill it with products that will move. Therefore, bookstores are = interested in selling only popular backlist (older products that continue to sell) = and frontlist products; they won't necessarily stock a full line of AD&D = products. If you are having a problem finding relatively new frontlist product at bookstores, call our customer service number at 1-800-324-6496 and let = them know exactly what product you're looking for, as well as the name & location of the store you tried to find it in. They will pass on that information to our sales team, and we'll work with our distribution = partner and try and solve the problem. Our customer service reps can also help = you find retail stores/outlets that do have the product you're looking for = in stock. As far as Dragon Magazine goes, it recently changed its distribution method and can be found in the magazine sections of bookstores and newstands--not in the rpg section of the bookstore where it used to be. This allows Dragon to reach a wider audience. Again, if you're having trouble finding it in a bookstore, please call customer service number = and be specific as to the store's location. If possible, I would like one person to forward this message to all = of the various AD&D discussion groups and usenet groups, as I feel it is = very important for consumers to know what's going on. And most importantly, if you can't seem to find TSR products at your favorite store, please call us. We can't help if we don't know there is = a problem. Keith Strohm Brand Manager AD&D Core Wizards of the Coast ********************************************************************** The REALMS-L FAQ: . To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB REALMS-L in the body of the message. - --=20 Jason http://www.cris.com/~towonder/ Sailor Moon V at http://www.cris.com/~towonder/fanfic.shtml - ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01BE6BFC.327C7360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 towonder@concentric.net = <towonder@concentric.net>Newsgroups:=20 rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: 11 March 1999 19:25
Subject: = Dragon Magazine Distribution

This was recently = posted on=20 the Realms-L mailing list, and I figured I'd
pass it along, as per = Keiths's=20 request.

[BEGIN INSERTED=20 MESSAGE]
Subject:      Re: [FR] MISC:Finding = TSR=20 Products (was Dark Times at Bookstores)

At 04:13 PM 3/10/99 EST, = you=20 wrote:
>from the response that i have seen on this list it looks = like=20 there is a
>problem. that problem started with the dark times when = TSR was=20 not
>shipping product and the book store chains were not getting = anything=20 but
>questions from customers, along with old product and bad = product=20 ideas
> that did not sell they might have been leery about getting = new=20 product
>in.

>the problem was that nobody was telling = the=20 national distribution or the book
>chains what the problem was or = the fact=20 that TSR is back in the game with the
>backing of WOTC and is here = to=20 stay.(thanks for saving my game, WOTC)

>What needs to be done = is to=20 educate the book chains and let them know TSR is
>back and going = strong=20 and to get the gamers back from the hobby shops,
>unfortitly the = people=20 that order for the book chains are not gamers and as
>such don't = know what=20 is happening in the industry.

>I will state that it is not the = fault=20 of TSR or WOTC that the book chains
>don't have product, our = friends would=20 have them carry everything.
>A two prong fix is for us to call the = book=20 chains 800 number and ask for them
>to carry the product and for = TSR/WOTC=20 marketing to let them know that there
>here to = stay.

  =20 This was such an important post that I wanted to respond to = it
personally and=20 let our consumers know exactly what is happening in terms = of
bookstore chains=20 and our products.

   TSR deals with one single = distributor to=20 the book trade; that
distributor is  Random House. Random House = services=20 all of the major book
chains and a number of smaller bookstores. As = soon as=20 WOTC/TSR started to
move products back into the channel, Random House = worked=20 hard to get all of
its previous accounts up to speed on the rebirth = of TSR.=20 I've spoken with
Loren Greenwood, VP of Sales for WOTC, and he = informed me=20 that all of
Random House's accounts that carried TSR products before = the=20 buyout
currently carry TSR products.

   So the short = of it=20 is, the book trade knows that TSR is back. As far as
not being able = to find=20 products, remember that bookstores are not dedicated
hobby stores = willing to=20 carry every SKU TSR has ever produced. Shelf space
in successful book = chains=20 equals revenue for the store, and they want to
fill it with products = that=20 will move. Therefore, bookstores are interested
in selling only = popular=20 backlist (older products that continue to sell) and
frontlist = products; they=20 won't necessarily stock a full line of AD&D products.

If you = are=20 having a problem finding relatively new frontlist product = at
bookstores, call=20 our customer service number at 1-800-324-6496 and let them
know = exactly what=20 product you're looking for, as well as the name &
location of the = store=20 you tried to find it in. They will pass on that
information to our = sales=20 team, and we'll work with our distribution partner
and try and solve = the=20 problem. Our customer service reps can also help you
find retail=20 stores/outlets that do have the product you're looking for=20 in
stock.

   As far as Dragon Magazine goes, it = recently=20 changed its distribution
method and can be found in the magazine = sections of=20 bookstores and
newstands--not in the rpg section of the bookstore = where it=20 used to be.
This allows Dragon to reach a wider audience. Again, if = you're=20 having
trouble finding it in a bookstore, please call customer = service number=20 and
be specific as to the store's location.


   = If=20 possible, I would like one person to forward this message to all = of
the=20 various AD&D discussion groups and usenet groups, as I feel it is=20 very
important for consumers to  know what's going=20 on.

   And most importantly, if you can't seem to find = TSR=20 products at your
favorite store, please call us. We can't help if we = don't=20 know there is a
problem.

Keith Strohm
Brand Manager = AD&D=20 Core
Wizards of the=20 Coast

************************************************************= **********
The=20 REALMS-L FAQ: <http://www.lava.net/~toby/fr= faq.htm>.
To=20 unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with=20 UNSUB REALMS-L in the body of the message.


--
Jason
http://www.cris.com/~towonder/
Sailor=20 Moon V at http://www.cris.com/~= towonder/fanfic.shtml
- ------=_NextPart_000_0137_01BE6BFC.327C7360-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:06:55 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Sharon wrote: >The Gray Elves from the old, long-OOP "Elves" game supplement from RoleAids >were like that. It was one of the few products I've seen, that broke >drastically with the usual AD&D interpretations of elves -- there were >half-elven horse nomads, lazy high-elven fops, and dark elves who acted >more like sicko serial killers than spider-buffs -- and the enclosed >adventure's got a fairly JRRT-style plot and backstory for the elven races, >too. Interesting! That reminds me of my old efforts to design a D&D campaign world before I adopted Mystara. Basically, most of the nations on the continent existed amidst the remnants of a great elvish empire - but these elves (mountain elves) were great stone crafters and city builders. Over several centuries, the subject races revolted, and threw the elves out of most of their provinces, leaving them with what they had before they started their little bout of empire building (a kingdom built on several mountain plateaus). Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:11:30 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Mischa wrote: >Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew and German, so it *should* sound like >German. Both Yiddish and the language developed by Spanish Jewry (whose >name I can never recall) developed after Hebrew though, and neither is >truly middle eastern. IIRC, the language spoken by the Sephardim is "Ladino". I also remember hearing that some dialects of Yiddish included some Polish and Hungarian elements, too. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:26:03 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great School advanced courses >> OTOH, it took me almost 50.000 gp to identify my mace +4 (taken from the >> Neutral Hag at the End of the Test of the Warlords... or was it Red Arrow >> Black Shield? No, it must be TotW. They were 3 hags, one of each alignment. >> The Chaotic had a mace +5, with slow, the Neutral my mace +4, and the Lawful >> a mace +5/+5 to chaotic beings (+10!!!!!). We were able to dispatch just the >> neutral, mind you) > >Whoosh. Over-power? > I can inflict a mere d6+8 per round, and can hit creatures with AC -1 or worse twice. If we used the *real* weapon mastery rules proposed in the Rules Cyclopedia, well..., *that* would overkill. :) Bungo Cervezarrubia PS: Haste works like a charm on halflings! :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #123 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 124 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [MYSTARA] - world mountain Re: [MYSTARA] - world mountain Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Language Thread... Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - Red Hurricane (long-ish) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:27:57 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >> That's what I was saying. Don't you think that the viking humans are more >> close to the dwarves than the actual viking dwarves? [what a sentence! ;)] > >Umm, well I don't think the viking dwarves fit...and I don't know >about the viking humans...Apperance might be very similar (I think), >but then the vikings were well known for sailing, and they didn't >exactly live in caves...They sure did love fighting and gold though, >and loved quality weaponry (who deosn't ?). So I don't know, the >viking humans fit reasonably, adn, I think, better than the viking >dwarves. (Yes, these sentences get pretty complicated) :& !!! > Maybe Tolkien just wanted to portray a a very war-driven race, and he just went off from that. :) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:29:04 -0500 From: "Brian K Deuberry" Subject: [MYSTARA] - world mountain Anyone ever done anything exciting with this impressive sounding mountain? Is their anything available in the GAZs on this area? Thanks, Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:52:31 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - world mountain >Anyone ever done anything exciting with this impressive sounding mountain? > >Is their anything available in the GAZs on this area? > >Thanks, > >Brian Quite a lot, in the Ethengar gaz! World Mountain is the site of a gateway to the Ethie's Spirit World; it's haunted by evil spirts; and it's one of the places where hakomans (Ethengar wizards) go to meditate and invent new magics. Deceased Great Khans are traditionally buried there. Once a year or so, the Wind of Black Madness -- a supernatural wind that drives people insane -- blows down from the mountainside to wreak havoc upon the steppe-nomads. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:08:21 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >>I don't understand why no fantasy RPG has yet incorporated the concept of >>elven miners living in stone palaces. In fact, the elves of the 1st age >>(Tolkienwise, that is) -the Noldor in particular- were masters in the arts >>of crafting jewelry. > >The Gray Elves from the old, long-OOP "Elves" game supplement from RoleAids >were like that. It was one of the few products I've seen, that broke >drastically with the usual AD&D interpretations of elves -- there were >half-elven horse nomads, lazy high-elven fops, and dark elves who acted >more like sicko serial killers than spider-buffs -- and the enclosed >adventure's got a fairly JRRT-style plot and backstory for the elven races, >too. > Interesting! The bad imitations, that's what makes me mad. Every fantasy campaign setting and his brother is doing the 'elves are the Firstborn, whose Destiny is above every other race's, keen at missile weapons and magic' stuff. Why doesn't a setting have the dwarves as the chosen race, for instance? I think the answer is quite sad: the guys who 'created' these worlds where too much inspired in JRRT's stuff, if you know what I mean. Of course, Mystara rules! :) Sheriff Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:19:22 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >Yiddish is a mixture of Hebrew and German, so it *should* sound like >German. Both Yiddish and the language developed by Spanish Jewry (whose >name I can never recall) developed after Hebrew though, and neither is >truly middle eastern. I think that language is Ladino. BTW man are we off topic! :) >Well, just for fun, here're two badly transliterated section from a >prayerbook: > >Halliluyah Hallilu Et (G-d's name) Min Hashamayim Hallilu Bamromim. >Hallilu kol malakhav hallilu kol tzvaav. Hallilu shemesh v'yareyakh >hallilu kol cokhvay oor. > >Mizmor L'asaf. Elokim Nitzav B'adat el b'kerev elokim yishput ad matai >tishpitu avel oophnei risha-im tisha-oo selah. Shiftu dal v'yatom ani >varash hatzdiku. > Cthulhu phtagn! >> Maybe some guys from Israel can shed some light on this! > >Or some American guys with little knowledge of Hebrew ;) Good lord...12 >years of Hebrew, 4 years of French and growing up in a household where my >parents spoke German alot and all I know well is English. Pathetic, huh? > Come on! I bet you could understand quite well an oD&D module written in French or in German if you'd grab one. BTW, our former DM (who now switched places with a PC) lived in France for 7 years, and he bought all his basic stuff (the old books, the Basic, Expter, Companion, Master and Inmortal rulebooks) in French! And -for us- the module Test of the Warlords (some GREAT module, BTW) is known as 'Le preuve du Signor du la Guerre'... or something like that. Very funny. And since we speak Spanish down here, most of our gamer-talk is a weird mix of spanish, english and french! >And pointed helmets and axes :) I have little knowledge of ancient Viking >culture, so am not sure how true the comparison holds. The dwarves meet >the stereotypical Viking image in a few ways at least - whether they >compare at all to the true culture is a whole different question. > Which reminds me, in the Rule Cyclopedia, most of the pics of dwarves shows them wielding hammers, not axes. And if they like axes so much (as we know they do), why couldn't they use them for chopping down trees? I don't like the stereotypes of elves-in-the-woods, dwarves-in-the-mountains, halflings-in-the-hills. Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:33:19 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Hi guys. Can I have your opinion on this? My character is a 9-level halfling, and Lord of a small Barony. All went nice until that dumb king Ericall (more or less King of Norworld) awarded us with another hex of the map... but far from our baronies. That meant that, if we found the right people, we would be Viscounts some day. Well, I happened to find a proper lady for the duty, who's Name level and all, but she hasn't been named a Baron(ess) yet. I can't name her Baron(ess), can I? I think that's a job for the King himself, right? So I can appoint her as a ruler after she's 'baronned'? And when will I be Viscount? The rules are not very clear on this, so I'm asking your opinions and/or experiencies. Bungo Cervezarrubia still a Baron :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:24:38 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents >On topic, I never saw the big deal about accents - it seems a bit too >racially stereotypical to have eg the Warcraft / Warhammer scottish >Dwarves - pretty lame stuff. Same goes for Jewish Dwarves or whatever - >sayign Jews are usually jewellers is like saying basketball players are >black - it's bollocks. And even were it true on Earth, why would it follow >on an alien parallel world like Mystara..? > >:) > Good point, but remember that if you want to flesh out a race (or a place, or a NPC for that matter) without telling your PCs to read the Lord of the Rings, your best shot is to link that to something they can relate. I think it's better to say that a troll's lair smells like a train station bathroom, instead of saying 'it's smell bad'. Just my .02 pesos anyway. Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:00:45 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Demihuman accents > > IIRC, the language spoken by the Sephardim is "Ladino". I also remember > > Geoff > I thought it was Marron ? Who knows. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 21:16:07 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Language Thread... Carlos Yoder meandered fecklessly... > BTW man are we off topic! :) Yup. Some of the posts in this thread still retain Mystara content, but not quite enough to ward off the Admin.... You all know the drill... bring it back, or send it off to private e-mail, yadda yadda yadda... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:51:40 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" wrote: > > The deceptive thign aout Karameikos is that its eastern european mask > conceals a radically oriental origin and structure of the existing land. > As Inoted before, whether by accident or design there is a fair amount of > esoterica wrapped up in the 'givens' of the known world. I'm probably over-looking the obvious but how do you mean "conceals a radically oriental origin"? I can see king-priests rising after the fall of Nithia (I'm still holding that connections between the two existed enough that some practices would be adopted). - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:44:21 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World It... is... done! Well, mostly... I have now placed my just-completed Map of the Taymoran Known World on my web site. This map was created using the hexpics developed by Andrew Theisen. The scale is 1 hex = 24 miles. The posted map only shows the geography; political maps will follow (infrequently), and show the development of the Taymoran Known Wolrd over a thousand-year period, from the early city- states through the consolidation of the empire to the last days before the Taymoran Cataclysm... just don't count on seeing them too soon. This sucker took quite a bit of time... Hope you all find it useful. Oh, and a guide to the political maps will also be posted... someday... :) Here's the URL for my site: www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/index.html Lemme know what you all think... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:54:42 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Agathokles wrote: > > Considering the number of Traladaran nobles existing a couple of centuries > before present day (Morphail, Sulescu, the Koriszegy vampire, and > probably also the ancestors of some of the SC City-State rulers) it seems > that some Traladaran "kingdoms" should have existed before the Thyatian > invasion, though most of these had already been destroyed when the > Thyatians arrived. Don't forget that Taymora may have contributed some of those nobles (becoming Traladaran nobles through the loss of history). Koriszegy especially could have come from almost anywhere since he seems to be away from the central areas of power. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:10:05 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > LOL! Why (and HOW, for that matter) would a mere village of 500 people > have built defenses as big as the "old wall" of Mirros?! Oh, everyone knows Thyatians lie just because they can :) > In fact, a massive flight of refugees, in the aftermath of a Marilenev > civil war, might account for why so many of the villages in Karameikos seem > too "young"! Most could have been founded by Traladarans who took to the > woods in 900 AC, in an attempt to avoid the Thyatians' siezing their > property or hauling them back to Thyatis City as slaves. (Traladara'd been > preyed upon by slavers, most of them Thyatians or in the employ of > Thyatians, for generations.) Indeed, the fact that so few of these > hypothetical refugees returned to Marilenev, when things calmed down, might > suggest that slavers, or goblins, took a heavy toll on them. Maybe we've > stumbled upon the first historical stirrings of the Iron Ring! I like that! Could be they were the true founders of towns like Kelvin in this flight which the Thyatians had to come along and make it 'official'. Nice tie in with the Iron Ring too :) > So maybe the country WAS well-off, when Thyatis first took over! But, as a > colony that'd been grabbed for pure profit, it was methodically run into > the ground by greedy or mismanaging governors ... much as Machetos has been > pretty well ruined, under Thincol's stewards. By the time Stefan offered > to "take it off his hands", Thyatis could have trashed the Traladaran > economy and driven the Traladarans into a state of near-revolt! Thinking > he's sticking it to his ol' drinking buddy, Thincol trades the > no-longer-profitable Traladara for Machetos (yet another region to > exploit). Stefan then boots out Traladara's last unpopular governor -- > which earns him some respect and gratitude from the long-suffering natives, > who'd hated his predecessor's guts -- and the disgruntled but overmatched > Traladarans reluctantly give this charismatic newcomer a chance to show > he's NOT such a cad, as the detached, indifferent imperial administrators > they had previously endured. Yep. That fits. The way Machetos was run down shows that's exactly how the emperor works. Maybe is a pattern so why should we assume Traladara was spared. Stefan considers him a friend (and has that inability to see evil in his family that may extend to his close friends). Besides, Thyatians are conquerors and the most powerful empire in the region (so writing history to make themselves look better is entirely possible). There has to have been a reason why Traladarans would look on Stefan so favorably and him giving Thyatians the best positions just doesn't seem to be the way. > If we're re-vamping Karameikan history, let's not do it half-way! :-D I like to look at as exposing the countless Thyatian lies *grins at James* - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:25:59 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > > Lemme know what you all think... Looks great! I believe I was able to find the current coastline (but if you ever get bored and want to sketch those in.. :) - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:56:04 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World It looks great...but I REALLY like the Greyhawk addition to the known world that you have there. cj *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 10:16:44 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > less King of Norworld) awarded us with another hex of the map... but far > from our baronies. That meant that, if we found the right people, we would _IMHO_ the King must in addition to granting land also grant you the title. The King must also petition any or all of your vassals. Only thing is that you can trade the land away, and someone else can build a keep there and try yo run for baronhood. BTW, am I correct with this, ascending order. Could someone fill me in with my mistakes? Knight Baronet Baron Viscount Count / Earl Marquis Your Grace / Your Excellency Duke Your Grace / Your Excellency Archduke Your Grace / Your Excellency Prince Your Highness Prince (Royal heir) Your Royal Highness Imperial Prince Your Imperial Highness King Your Majesty Emperor Your Imperial Majesty Bishop Your Excellency Archbishop Your Excellency Cardinal Your Eminence Pope Your Holiness > when will I be Viscount? The rules are not very clear on this, so I'm asking > your opinions and/or experiencies. We Glantrians have a great solution; blasting one another in pieces with Fireballs and granting the title to the last man standing. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 08:22:00 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >I can't name her Baron(ess), can I? I think that's a job for the King >himself, right? So I can appoint her as a ruler after she's 'baronned'? And >when will I be Viscount? The rules are not very clear on this, so I'm asking >your opinions and/or experiencies. Well, first off, your character can give himself whatever title he wants. Whether or not people laugh at him is another matter (a bit like how, in the Savage Baronies, Sir John is a Count/Duke and the other barons laugh at him). Although presumably your character is under King Ericall, which means that he ultimately has authority over all titles, though depending on how much of a tight grip he has you may have the ability to appoint any noble ranks lesser than your own. Concerning being a Viscount, IIRC to become a Viscount you normally have to acquire new territory through conquest. You can be a baron and control any number of map hexes :) Still, that doesnt necessarily have to be used.... All my PCs dominions are in Glantri, so when they want to advance it usually involves lots of backstabbing, duels, and voting in the Council of Princes, rather than sticking to a hard definition of what a Viscount is... :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 14:33:50 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Red Hurricane (long-ish) Hi everyone! Do you remember my old post about the Polymar race? I hardly belive you do, but for those of you who're still interested, this post is its proper sequel (the first one about the Polymars' history can be found on my site). It details the Red Hurricane, the Polymars' most hated and oldest nemesis, and his incredible secret.. Enjoy! PS: this is based upon the anime "Hurricane Polymar", just in case u were wondering.. DM http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 The Red Hurricane As long as evil will threaten Mystara, justice will bear my name... - - Hurricane Polymar's battlecry. History The Red Hurricane has always battled the Polymars, the Invisible People as he calls them, since his birth. Tarin Oregar was the first and most successful Red Hurricane so far, but others followed and have always tried to use the powers of the Polymer Helm to fight evil and treachery and to unmask the polymars' hidden plots. The polymars themselves don't know who or what the Red Hurricane really is, only Novar does and he's not telling them the whole truth. He has only ordered the Group to dispose of this devil by crushing his head or by reducing him to ashes, so that the helm will be destroyed without anybody knowing what it really was. The Polymer Helm is an old Blackmoor relic, a technological device that alters the molecular structure of the wearer making him very similar to polymars, only tougher and swifter. The helm also contains a small but powerful micro-computer which stores a large database where the information gathered so far by all the Red Hurricanes have been accumulated. The wearer need simply to concentrate on the desired information to retrieve it and exploit it. It is a veritable repository of arcane lore, as well as an incredible fighting machine. Furthermore, all its effects are not magical in nature, but physical, and so they are not dispellable. However, due to Mystara's strange physical properties, the Helm has been loosing many of its original powers and today it is a much less depowered version even though it still inspires fear in the hearts of the polymars. Loosing one power each century, it will be completely useless in about a millennium, unless it is taken away from Mystara earlier. Appearance The Polymer Helm appears as a red rounded motorcycle helm with the lower frontal part enclosing and protecting the wearer's chin. It is always shiny and perfectly polished and the material used to make it is a strange kind of metal alloy unknown to any Mystaran smith. It is able to adapt itself to the size of the wearer provided he is no taller than 2 meters (6'10'') and no smaller than 1 meter (3'). By using one of its powers, the wearer is also able to change the Helm's appearance while it is donned, although once removed it immediately regains its normal shape. When one of the powers is activated, a transparent blue glass-like (plexiglass) viewer slids down to cover the eyes; when the power is deactivated, it slids back inside the upper part of the helm. Powers Any being no taller than 2 meters can wear the Helm and become the Red Hurricane. Immediately after it is donned, the Helm establishes a telepathic link with its owner and gives him the basic information about its creation and goals. It also gives the wearer access to the secret passwords to call upon the powers left in the Helm. To use one of the powers the wearer must simply concentrate and utter the comman word: this is considered like casting a spell (it takes one full round to operate, during which the wearer can only dodge or move). All the powers can be used simultaneously. These are the powers left in the helm with the Polymer Points needed to activate them (see below for Polymer Points): Power Name Polymer Points Polymar Vision 1 Polymar Scouter 2 Polymar Change 3 Polymar Illusion 4 Polymar Mole 5 Polymar Torpedo 6 Polymar Sparrowhawk 7 Polymar Skin 8 Polymar Strength 9 Polymar Speed 10 Hurricane 20 * Polymar Vision: the wearer gains a thermal infrared vision that allows him to see quite clearly even in darkness (just like the elves' Infravision). The power requires 1 PP each 3 turns it is activated (consumed immediately after activation and every 3 turns thereafter). * Polymar Scouter: the wearer is able to view through the viewer the true form and physical stats of everyone in a 18 meters (60') radius. The wearer has 90% -1% per creature's HD to view its true form, and can evaluate its Strength, Hit Points and Hit Dices (note: HD, not Levels). The power requires 2 PP each turn it is activated (consumed immediately after activation and with each subsequent turn). * Polymar Change: this power functions just like the first level wizard's spell Alter Self. The wearer can assume the form of another humanoid being, changing his clothes and physical appearance. He can grow up to 30 cms (1') more or shrink up to 1' less than his normal height, increasing or decreasing his bodily weight of up to 30 kilos. He can also alter his apparent age (no restrictions) and his clothes, concealing his objects as well, although they will always remain the same. This is only an illusion, and even though it cannot be dispelled, it can be discovered by touch and by the use of Trueseeing. The power requires 3 PP each turn it is activated (consumed immediately after activation and with each subsequent turn). * Polymar Illusion: using this power, the wearer creates illusory duplicates of himself that move and act mirroring the original character but which can be distinguished from him only by touch (exactly the same of the wizard's Mirror Image spell). The images remain in a 5 meters (15') radius from the wearer and each image disappears if touched. The wearer can create 1d4 images for each 4 Polymer Points spent, and they last only 1 turn (or until touched). There maximum number of images that can be created simultaneously is 20. * Polymar Mole: the wearer's body (with his whole equipment) turns into a mechanical excavator of the same size and can dig his way into the earth at the movement rate of 36 (12) mts/yds per round (the encumbrance rate is the normal one but it does not affect the speed). Until he is in this form, the character cannot use his equipment nor speak, but he senses everything normally (can hear and see with infravision and normal vision) and has all his stats. Since the change is physical and not magical, it cannot be dispelled. This power requires 5 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 5 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Polymar Torpedo: the wearer's body (with his whole equipment) turns into a mechanical submarine of the same size and can swim on and under-water with the movement rate of 36 (12) mts/yds per round (the encumbrance rate is the normal one but it does not affect the speed). Until he is in this form, the character cannot use his equipment nor speak, but he senses everything normally (can hear and see with infravision and normal vision), can breathe underwater and has all his stats. Since the change is physical and not magical, it cannot be dispelled. This power requires 6 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 6 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Polymar Sparrowhawk: the wearer's body (with his whole equipment) turns into a mechanical airplane of the same size and can fly at the rate of 36 (12) mts/yds per round (the encumbrance rate is the normal one but it does not affect the speed). Until he is in this form, the character cannot use his equipment nor speak, but he senses everything normally (can hear and see with infravision and normal vision), and has all his stats. Since the change is physical and not magical, it cannot be dispelled. This power requires 7 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 7 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Polymar Skin: the wearer's skin becomes tougher and more resilient, giving him a base AC of 3. The skin however assumes a strange reddish hue, as if the character was wearing a crimson body suit. This power requires 8 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 8 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Polymar Strength: the helm stimulates the muscles of the wearer's body to increase their volume and power, adding 5 points to the character's Strength (even exceeding the maximum stats for his race). The power is not cumulative (the character cannot activate it twice to double the bonus) but can be combined with other powers and spells. This power requires 9 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 9 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Polymar Speed: the helm stimulates the wearer's polymers, nerves and brain making him more reactive and fast in his actions. The character acts as if he was hastened and gains a bonus of +2 to his Initiative roll and -2 to his Armor Class. The power is not cumulative (the character cannot activate it twice to double the bonuses) but can be combined with other powers and spells. This power requires 10 PP to be activated and lasts 1 turn (every other turn another 10 PP must be spent to mantain the power). * Hurricane: the most awesome power of the Polymer Helm, this allows the wearer to perform an incredible physical deed in a short time. The wearer of the helm has his Strength and Dexterity boosted to 18 (or 19 if they already are 18), his movement doubled (he can also jump at his normal movement rate), his THAC0 reduced by 1 point and he also gains 1 level, with all the bonuses and advantages that come with it. This power is not cumulative but can be combined with others or with other spells. While it is activated, a glowing yellow symbol appears in the middle of the torso and on the back of the character's hands: it is the symbol of the Polymar Helm, a strange mix between the letter "P" and a bird. It requires 20 PP to be activated and lasts for 6 rounds, after which the character must rest for another 6 rounds. During this period he is considered "stunned", but this doesn't prevent him from activating other powers of the helm (save the Hurricane). The Polymer Helm is considered like a +5 magical armor in order to understand what kind of weapons or monsters can damage it. It is totally immune to normal or magical cold based attacks and automatically takes half damage from fire and acid based attacks (another ST vs Fire/Magical Fire or Acid is allowed to reduce the damage to 1/4). Electricity damages it normally. It has 100 Hit Points (encumbrance: 20 coins), and for every point of damage taken there is a cumulative 1% of chances that its powers misfunction (roll each time a power is activated). If reduced to 0 Hp, the helm is destroyed utterly. The Helm can heal itself only if it is donned by somebody, drawing upon his stamina. As long as a living character is wearing the helm, the damage taken by the helm can be repaired at the cost of 1 Hp per Hit Point of the subject through a very special non-magical blending. The process takes 1 turn for every Hp to be repaired, and the wounds produced on the wearer are real, but can be cured both in the normal and magical way. Beware however, that this process is not controllable: once the Helm is being damaged, it automatically enters the repairing mode and starts leaking away the wearer's Hit Points to preserve itself. The only possible way to stop it before it kills the wearer is to remove it from one's head. However, if it is still damaged once it is donned again, it immediately restarts the procedure until it is completely repaired. Polymer Points The Helm works stimulating the polymers of the human body according to the programmed patterns inscribed in the helm's micro-computer. The power source used to cause the alteration of the polymers is a miniaturized auto recharging nuclear battery that also draws upon the mental strength and stamina of the helm wearer to operate. Every time the Helm is used, the battery loses part of its energy, until it runs out. The battery however recharges itself automatically so that it always becomes fully recharged after 24 hours. The Polymer Points (PP) of the Helm are calculated adding the wearer's psyco-physical characteristics to the Base Value as follows: Base PP (50) + Intelligence + Constitution = Total PP. The Polymer Points are regained at the rate of 1 per turn (6/hour) when the helm is not worn and 1 every 2 turns (3/hour) if it is worn and used. Since the process is not magical it cannot be blocked or magically slowed in any way. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #124 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 125 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mysteries of the Net (OT) Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" [MYSTARA] - House of Glantri, part 3 Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - Demi-human accents Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:23:18 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mysteries of the Net (OT) Apparently... I wrote ..again: <> Well, really strange. I thought I sent this letter only once, but it seems the letter actually cloned itself on the net and came twice to the list, the first on the 4th of march and this one only yesterday... that's another great mystery of e-mail workings, I believe.. :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:56:22 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > Can I have your opinion on this? My character is a 9-level halfling, and > Lord of a small Barony. All went nice until that dumb king Ericall (more or > less King of Norworld) awarded us with another hex of the map... but far > from our baronies. That meant that, if we found the right people, we would > be Viscounts some day. > Well, I happened to find a proper lady for the duty, who's Name level and > all, but she hasn't been named a Baron(ess) yet. > I can't name her Baron(ess), can I? I think that's a job for the King > himself, right? So I can appoint her as a ruler after she's 'baronned'? And > when will I be Viscount? The rules are not very clear on this, so I'm asking > your opinions and/or experiencies. I think that you're quite welcome to appoint the people you need to rule lands that have been granted to you. By granting you the land, the king has entrusted you with the responsibility of finding the proper people to care for it. As long as the taxes keep coming and there's no talk of rebellions all should be fine. Of course you might be wise to inform the king... As for naming yourself viscount you may want to run this by the king, or at least look to your neighbours. Are any of them viscounts/-esses? And if so how did they become viscounts-esses? Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:05:52 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" > > BTW do Radiance wizards call upon the power of the artifact itself ? Is > > this like using an artifact and incurring penalties and handicaps ? I > > realize that the wasting disease contributed to the Radiance is a > > pretty strong handicap, but there must be more than this for such a > > major- greater-super-artifact... > > There are three significant drawbacks with the Nucleus. First is the > rotting disease ending in lichdom (at best), and which is incurable even > by Wish. Second is the magic-drain on mystara, nearly incurable even by > immortal magic. The magic-drain ends eventually on nucleus exploding and > turning entire Glantri to Broken Lands. Third is that those trying to > Transcend the Life Force and fail the subsequent tests are drawn to the > Nucleus and used as power source -- ending in nothingness and utter > destruction of soul. So when you retain the power of the nucleus of the spheres (right?) you store the power of radiance inside your own body? Seeing how the radiance is sort of radioactivity combined with magic and is usually associated with the rotting disease, wouldn't this be an extremely dangerous and stupid thing to do? There probably isn't an exact rule for this, but I'd say you increase the likelihood of contracting the rotting disease tremendously!!! When spells have a duration you gotta have the magical energies around for the duration. So any radiance spells with a duration submits you to large doses of radiance and thus must increase the level of "rot" by far more than an instant spell, right? I propose keeping a score of radiance points (hope this isn't already how it works) and increasing the points not by the level of the spell in question but rather by its duration (in some form). Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:03:20 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Glantri, part 3 Hadriana Glantri Hadriana was already 42-years-old when she became a leader of the Glantri-faction of the rebels. She was tall, lean, short-haired, plain-looking woman in her prime physical condition. She usually were men's clothes and among the soldiers she was "one of the guys". Titus had sent her to Thyatis in 770 to get education there. After getting through military academy there Hadriana been in the Thyatian army for five years and then began career as professional adventureress. Only reason she gave for her coming back to Glantri was that she wanted to give home for her son. Hadriana was brilliant commander in battles and she fought side-by-side with her men, but she had also some defects. First of all she had no sense of military strategy. And secondly she absolutely hated Alphatians, and that included also Flaems. When asked about this hatred she always gave some vague answers about some difficulties during her adventuring career. She was also very self-willed, things were done either her way or not at all. Because of that and his hostility towards the Flaems it was usually Matteo di Sfonti who kept in touch with the Flaem leaders and tried to co-ordinate their operations against the Alphatian troops. Rebels were slowly pushed back by Alphatian and Hattian troops because of the division of the rebel troops. It was very hard for Matteo di Sfonti to keep the alliance together, because Hattian troops were between his troops and the rest of the rebels. At the Spring of 801 Halzunthram was so confident that he declared that the rebels were vanquished. But then he made mistake, he divided his own troops by removing Hattians to the north to the area west of Aalban river. This was a heaven sent opportunity for Hadriana, when Hattians were on their march to north she harassed their troops and slowly led her own troops west, where they joined Matteo di Sfonti and his troops. She had some reasons to do that. For one Castle Glantri was in ruins, there were only one tower standing after Alphatian battlemages assault last year, and Hadriana wanted to take her son to a safe place. She left Alexander with di Sfonti family where he had a company of his own age amongst Matteo's children. Matteo now left his own troops to the hands of Hadriana, because he wanted to concentrate on his efforts to get more allies to rebels. He sent envoys to don Fernando de Belcadiz, to Morphail Gorevich-Woszlany, to the Ethengarians living eastern side of Colossus Mountains and to the Kaelics, he himself travelled over the Glantrian Alps to visit Etienne d'Ambreville, whose magical capabilities he was well aware of. Only success was with the Ethengarians who were promised area in the west side of mountains. Attack of the Ethengarian horsemen and hakomons over the Colossus Mountains in the summer of 802 took Halzunthram by surprise. Braejr would have fell if the rebels only have co-operated. The Ethengarians were approaching from the east and the Flaems from the north. Hadriana was with her troops at the western side of Isoile river, but at the last moment she decided to go to the north and attack Hattian troops coming from there. Original plan was that she should keep the riverside so that the Alphatians from the south could not enter the city or the defenders could not escape. When the Ethengarians, who of course were not experienced in siege warfare, saw that Hadriana's troop left their positions, they also retreated. This left only the Flaems in the battlefield. Matteo di Sfonti had his hands full, when he tried to assure the Ethengarians and most of all defeated Flaems that no one has betrayed anyone. He was also furious to Hadriana. Hadriana didn't care a bit, she lead her troops north to fight with the Hattians there. During the next three years Hadriana harassed the Hattians and their connections with the Alphatians in south. She didn't care about Matteo's pleas to lead her troops to the south. She even occasionally robbed supplies from the Flaems. Disaster came in 805 when Hattian troops strengthened with some dwarven units beat her totally in the battle near modern Vorstadt. Hadriana and handfull of his men escaped and fled over the Wendarian Ranges to Wendar. In her frustration after the defeat she stayed there for four years. Not until 809 she decided to went back. Before leaving she tried to get Wendarian humans to ally with her. She couldn't persuade them but at least she managed to hire troops, so that she had nearly 100 men when she left. She went first over the mountains to Boldavia. Her plan was to persuade Morphail Gorevich-Woszlany to enter the battle. Plan was good, but when she met the sinister lord of Igorov, it was she who stayed in Boldavia for two years. It was not until 811 when Hadriana led his troop of Wendarian and Boldavian troops till the battle. When Hadriana came back after six years of absence, she was 55-years-old. She was still surprisingly fit and agile, but there was something more harder in her than earlier. She was more ferocious in battle and she had get some very powerful magical items. Most disturbing to both his allies and enemies was that she only attacked at nights. Her troops attacked in the Alphatian villages and troops and usually slaughtered everyone. His troops, although their number seemed to stay at same level, were so small that they had not very great affect on the war. After seven years Hadriana's allies began to suspect that there were something wrong with her. After some consultation with his immortals Matteo di Sfonti realised that Hadriana was totally evil, she would be even greater danger to the Highlands than Halzunthram. He told what he had found out to Alexander Glantri. It took some time to assure Alexander, but at last when he had met his mother for the first time in 17 years, it became very clear of him what his mother has become. Three days later Alexander Glantri strike with his own hands stake through his mothers heart. Matteo di Sfonti then stroke her head off. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 16:48:36 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: > Hi guys. > > Can I have your opinion on this? My character is a 9-level halfling, and > Lord of a small Barony. All went nice until that dumb king Ericall (more or > less King of Norworld) awarded us with another hex of the map... but far > from our baronies. That meant that, if we found the right people, we would > be Viscounts some day. > Well, I happened to find a proper lady for the duty, who's Name level and > all, but she hasn't been named a Baron(ess) yet. > > I can't name her Baron(ess), can I? I think that's a job for the King > himself, right? So I can appoint her as a ruler after she's 'baronned'? You can name her sheriff, seneschal or give her any other title you like, but not a nobiliar title, at least until you are named Viscount. When you reach viscouncy, you are allowed to name any number of Barons to rule parts of your domains. It is possible that the King keeps the right to confirm (or not) any title given by his vassals, though this is not a rule. On the other hand, you cannot appoint another Baron to rule over a part of your land, since this Baron would already have a fief of his own. And > when will I be Viscount? This is entirely up to king Ericall. As others said, you need a "conquest" to become Viscount, but the king can give a "conquest" to any noble he likes. Of course these are only the standard oD&D rules, and your DM can (and probably will) set specific rules for the various countries. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:03:38 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > Agathokles wrote: > > > > Considering the number of Traladaran nobles existing a couple of centuries > > before present day (Morphail, Sulescu, the Koriszegy vampire, and > > probably also the ancestors of some of the SC City-State rulers) it seems > > that some Traladaran "kingdoms" should have existed before the Thyatian > > invasion, though most of these had already been destroyed when the > > Thyatians arrived. > > Don't forget that Taymora may have contributed some of those nobles > (becoming Traladaran nobles through the loss of history). Koriszegy > especially could have come from almost anywhere since he seems to be > away from the central areas of power. > IMC pre-Thyatian invasion Traladara has no true central area of power. Marilenev is important mostly because of its contacts with the Thyatians, but more powerful domains dot the whole country, until a series of wars and other disasters (like the curse of Koriszegy) sends Traladara once more back into a dark age. This happens between 700 AC (Sulescu and Morphail become nosferatus in the next 25 years) and 800 AC (Koriszegy's curse ends this age). Given the number of undeads involved, it is possible that some Entropic Immortal (Alphaks, perhaps) is behind this events, possibly trying to undermine Halav's base of followers. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:10:57 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" > So when you retain the power of the nucleus of the spheres (right?) > you store the power of radiance inside your own body? Seeing how the > radiance is sort of radioactivity combined with magic and is usually > associated with the rotting disease, wouldn't this be an extremely > dangerous and stupid thing to do? There probably isn't an exact rule > for this, but I'd say you increase the likelihood of contracting the > rotting disease tremendously!!! Yes, yes it is, yes it does and yes there are. :) Retain power imbues caster with d20 'rad points'. It is safe to retain one rad / level, and after that there is 1% per rad chance of overdose, which makes 2hp damage per EVERY rad stored in addition to rotting disease spreading. Anyone retaining 12rads or more glows with a visible blue aura. Rad, used in Discharge, makes d6 damage -- save for half; used in Control Destiny modifies a roll by one, decided before the roll. Transcend Life Force needs 50 rads in addition to other miraculous components, granting the caster the immortality. This may not sound too dangerous, but the caster does not know how many rads he has imbued in himself, he does not know how much he will get, and spells like Discharge use lots of Rads. In the beginning he does not even know that the Radiance is dangerous... > When spells have a duration you gotta have the magical energies > around for the duration. So any radiance spells with a duration > submits you to large doses of radiance and thus must increase the > level of "rot" by far more than an instant spell, right? When one of my PC:s enters the Brotherhood of Radiance, I will flesh out the Radiance rules. Not that I ever showed them to players... But yes, I would consider time an important factor. The other thing I will do to Radiance is that the PC will learn his own applications for the energy, as to me the existing related spells are only examples. > I propose keeping a score of radiance points (hope this isn't already > how it works) and increasing the points not by the level of the spell > in question but rather by its duration (in some form). This is slightly like it is. BTW I highly recommend Gaz3. KoM is not _THAT_ good, but they are both excellent. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 17:54:10 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" >Rad, used in Discharge, makes d6 damage -- save for half; used in >Control Destiny modifies a roll by one, decided before the roll. >Transcend Life Force needs 50 rads in addition to other miraculous >components, granting the caster the immortality. Hmm, never knew about the 50 rads. Excellent! Is there any other juicy tidbits of Radiance info that got edited out of G:KoM (my only source on the subject). >This may not sound too dangerous, but the caster does not know how many >rads he has imbued in himself, he does not know how much he will get, and >spells like Discharge use lots of Rads. In the beginning he does not even >know that the Radiance is dangerous... Hmm. Perhaps a candidate for a low level Radiance spell. Detect Radiance, perhaps? with the ability to give you an amount in rads? >When one of my PC:s enters the Brotherhood of Radiance, I will flesh out >the Radiance rules. Not that I ever showed them to players... > >But yes, I would consider time an important factor. > >The other thing I will do to Radiance is that the PC will learn his own >applications for the energy, as to me the existing related spells are >only examples. Thing that interests me is probability here... wild mages, to be precise. There is a probability that you are rotted. And wild magic is all about luck, and influencing probabilities. So a wild mage could perhaps practice Radiance magic with far less risk than a normal wiz. (Although, it has to be said, wild magic has its own risks :) I mentioned this b4 ages ago, but there are new ppl around now, so i'll say it again. The main reason I think it appropriate is because wild mages are studying the "theoretical underpinnings of magic", which seems to naturally lead into the field of the Radiance. I read that, and thought it was just such a smooth fit :) (BTW, speaking of wild mages, do you think Xagyg did the Path of the Paragon? He was acknowledge as the most powerful mage by all within a 1000 miles, and he even played around with the walls of Greyhawk City (thus producing a unique and spectacular magical effect...) :) Cheerz Rob the Chaotic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:55:43 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >_IMHO_ the King must in addition to granting land also grant you the >title. The King must also petition any or all of your vassals. Only thing >is that you can trade the land away, and someone else can build a keep >there and try yo run for baronhood. > But hey, this is King Ericall! :) I think that as long as taxes keep arriving at Alpha, that shouldn't be a problem... or would it? >BTW, am I correct with this, ascending order. Could someone fill me in >with my mistakes? > >Knight >Baronet >Baron >Viscount >Count / Earl Well I actually never been a knight, you know that justing plate is a little bit to heavy for my pony. But Baronet? What's that? And you *can* be a Viscount w/o a conquest, or that's what the RC says. >> when will I be Viscount? The rules are not very clear on this, so I'm asking >> your opinions and/or experiencies. > >We Glantrians have a great solution; blasting one another in pieces with >Fireballs and granting the title to the last man standing. Really? I thought that they'd just wait for the Day of Dread and hire mercenaries. :) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:04:29 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >Well, first off, your character can give himself whatever title he wants. >Whether or not people laugh at him is another matter (a bit like how, in the >Savage Baronies, Sir John is a Count/Duke and the other barons laugh at >him). > >Although presumably your character is under King Ericall, which means that >he ultimately has authority over all titles, though depending on how much of >a tight grip he has you may have the ability to appoint any noble ranks >lesser than your own. > So you're saying that I should proclaim myself Viscount and that's it? :-O >Concerning being a Viscount, IIRC to become a Viscount you normally have to >acquire new territory through conquest. According to the RCyclopedia, the Viscount status doesn't require a conquest, the Count status (and up) does. > You can be a baron and control any number of map hexes :) > Still, that doesnt necessarily have to be used.... But if I have 11 map hexes near the coast of Norworld, and another one near Leeha. So I came up with this: 3 of the 11 coastal hexes go to the soon-to-be Baroness, and the other 8 remain under a seneschal's control. Finally, I move to the 'city' hex near Leeha to establish my new home. I guess I could appoint this female Mage as a seneschal, but I don't think she'd like that. Anyway, we're in the middle of WotI, so this will have to wait (let's hope Norworld doesn't blow up!). >All my PCs dominions are in Glantri, so when they want to advance it usually >involves lots of backstabbing, duels, and voting in the Council of Princes, >rather than sticking to a hard definition of what a Viscount is... :) Don't you have a Day of Dread in Glantri? :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:08:06 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >> I can't name her Baron(ess), can I? I think that's a job for the King >> himself, right? So I can appoint her as a ruler after she's 'baronned'? > >You can name her sheriff, seneschal or give her any other title you like, >but not a nobiliar title, at least until you are named Viscount. >When you reach viscouncy, you are allowed to name any number of Barons to >rule parts of your domains. That's exactly what I want to do. > It is possible that the King keeps the right >to confirm (or not) any title given by his vassals, though this is not a >rule. >On the other hand, you cannot appoint another Baron to rule over a part of >your land, since this Baron would already have a fief of his own. Yep, you're right on that. > > And >> when will I be Viscount? > >This is entirely up to king Ericall. As others said, you need a "conquest" >to become Viscount, but the king can give a "conquest" to any noble he >likes. Not according to the Rule Cyclopedia. You need a conquest to attain Count status, not viscount. >Of course these are only the standard oD&D rules, and your DM can >(and probably will) set specific rules for the various countries. That's why I also was asking for personal campaign experiencies. What abot yourself? Bungo Cervezarrubia The Viscount that would not be. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 14:45:57 -0500 (EST) From: VNTiger@webtv.net (Alejandro Acosta) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Demi-human accents Hello all; This is my 1st post. The Spanish-Hebrew dialect is called Sefardí (Sephardim) pronounced 'Seh-far-DEE' stressing the DEE. Alex/VN *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:22:41 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos Agathokles wrote: > > Given the number of undeads involved, it is possible > that some Entropic Immortal (Alphaks, perhaps) is behind this events, > possibly trying to undermine Halav's base of followers. For an alternative to Alphaks, I believe Orcus has ties to Traladara and was over the undead in AD&D (IIRC). - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 22:57:07 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names > Davania sounds quite Greek, so I find two options: > > 1. Take it as Milenian, perhaps related to a legendary hero). > 2. Take it as Byzantium-RWThyatian, and connect it with the name of one of > the first explorers and mappers of the Hinterlands and Adakkian: "Terra > Davanica" = Davania? Perhaps the explorer was called Davanus or Daunus > (quite similar to the RW Danaus). Well, to explain the origins of the names is sometimes difficult. When writing the story about the discovery of the small continent (or big island respectively) of Bellissaria I've decided to use the names of the discoverers and their ships to name the places. This is not unheard of in the real world. A known Sibirian river, the "Lena", was named after a Swedish exploration ship. (BTW, the other ship of this expedition, the "Vega", even reached the Pacific ocean.) It's the same principle Anne McCaffrey used on Pern in the Dragonriders series. The places were already known, and then she wrote a book, where all the humans landed on the planet who beared exactly those names. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:00:57 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names > Maybe it was the Alphatians that named it. They *were* coming from another > world, so Mystara to them was new and different. If humans travelled to > another planet and settled there, I doubt they'd call it Earth or Ground. > They'd come up with some other name that was descriptive of it in some way. > > Of course that raises the question: why would the Alphatians call it > Mystara? They had both magic and immortals on the Alphatian homeworld, so > there wasn't really anything new or mysterious. Perhaps it was a mistake, comparable to the fact that the islands in the Caribbean Sea were called the West Indian Islands. Or why the most famous Australian animal is called "I don't know" in the language of the natives. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:07:37 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar > Er... actually, that name's been taken. It's the name of the ancient IoD > web-city that the aranea (i.e. "folk of Aran") came from. Aran -- rhymes > with "Iran", I assume, given the Middle Eastern feel of the region > (Thothia) it's near -- is featured in module M5: Talons Of Night. > > Maybe they could be the "Ar-phatians".... ;-D Sigh, I had forgotten those! On the other hand, Aran is nearly unknown. Don't forget, we have "Indians" and "Indians" IRW. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:11:04 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Inhabitants of Ar > How about calling them "Ar-ans" or "Ar-ens"? Sounds pretty good to me! Possible! But never, never, NEVER call them "Arians"! Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 23:33:13 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos > > I always had the impression that the title of Grand Duchy was a holdover > > from when the lands were a part of the Thyatian Empire. From the > > description of the Thyatian use of the land in Gaz1, it probably wasn't > > even a Grand Duchy until after Stephen Karameikos approached the Emperor > > with his deal for autonomous control of the land. > > I think it was just knows as the Traladara region. Not really more than > a collection of few cities and villages before the coming of Stefan > (IMC). Well, as far as I remembered Traladara was a wild, uninteresting and neglected region until the Darokinian merchant lords decided to engage in this southern country around AC 900. Again, IIRC, this was before the Republic of Darokin was even founded, but the merchants were obviously wealthy and powerful. The Thyatian Empire learned about the plans. I assume that the plans of the Darokinians were of economically nature, not military. The Empire decided not to tolerate that and send some legions to conquer the land. Traladar was conquered without any greater problem, and was made the "Protectorate of Traldara". After that the merchantmen lost their interest as they were definitely not interested to increase the THYATIAN wealth and the Thyatians had no other plans than to prevent the Darokinians to lurk in. This situation remained until AC 970 when Duke Stefan came. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #125 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, March 13 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 126 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - New Stuff! [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - Quests for Immortality [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D [MYSTARA] - RE: The Dom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:38:36 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles In a message dated 3/12/99 1:34:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, churlo@microstar.com.ar writes: << So you're saying that I should proclaim myself Viscount and that's it? :-O >> As someone else pointed out, your character had better check and see if the other Viscounts would back you or not. If you are the odd man/Hin out, you might find yourself being looked at as someone else's potential "conquest-to- counthood." BTW/ one thing the book overlooks, but which campaigns should not, is the importance of marriage, politics, and outright bribery involved in noble promotions, especially in the field of a loosely organized nation/land mass like Norwold. So maybe your character can marry his way to a higher title. Especially if there was a female ruler looking to expand her rule and truly did look at it as merely a marriage of convenience. Perhaps she needs a political ally. Maybe she's a widow and needs someone to help fend off her enemies until the heir is old enough to rule. I'm seeing the way an alliance of this kind might be shocking to the whole social structure, but it could spawn some interesting adventures for the character. . . . Scene: In a cold, wintry great hall somewhere in Norwold: A small woman dressed in mourning cloth descends the stairs to confront a gathering of noblemen and knights who are clustered in small conspiratorial knots, whispering and glancing nervously at one another. A hush falls on the group as she moves through them to take her place on a raised marble bench, where the flowers off her dead Lord are still resting on his empty seat. With a raising of her chin, she addresses her tormentors. . . . "My Lords, I know you have all come her to hear my decision, " her voice grows thick with irony as she continues "and I appreciate the trouble you have all taken to visit me in the past few months to offer me 'good counsel' regarding the fate of my dominion." Looking into the many sets of hungry eyes, she softly says,"My thanks to you all," (pause) "Having weighed all the offers I have received, I could only choose the course that would be in the best interests of my people, my land, and most of all . . . my child." Her voice cracks just a little here as her glance unconsciously strays up the stairs to the infant's nursery. With gathering strength, she goes on to say," And so My Lords, I present to you, my intended husband and the next lord of Cold Harbor . . . 'Viscount' Churlo Mycrostar!" All eyes turn to look at the Halfling Warrior sitting quietly by the fire. Looking up from his pipe, the old family friend of the dead Lord speaks his first words as the next Master of this Hall: "Huh?" BoBoII *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:47:44 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Stuff! Hi all! Well, I've expanded the ever-popular Darine into a larger people, the Dom. So the updated Darine material can be found at my site (best way is through the "plain" site, URL below). So, without further adieu, I will send along The Dom--enjoy! Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/nonint.html Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:48:59 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Dom The Dom The Dom ("the people") are the "gypsies" of the Known World. They are descended from the Traldar that migrated west into Sind during the invasion of the Red Orcs circa 1000 BC. Although the Traldar immigrants adapted to and adopted much of Sindhi culture, they never fit into that region's rigid caste system. Consequently, the Dom left Sind (though a few tibes remained) around 600 BC. Dom legend suggests that this second migration was prompted by the bestowing of the Wandering Curse, by an evil priest. This curse damned the Dom to forever wander, never able to settle down. As the Dom are a nature-worshipping people, with close ties to the land, this curse was evil indeed. Since that fateful day, the Dom have become a people divided, scattered to the ends of Brun by their unquenchable wanderlust. But they ultimately remain one people, a fact testified to by their view of the Three Nations in One. The Dom recognize three major natsia, or nations, among their people. All Dom belong to one of the three nations: the Domani, the Daro, or the Lomavren. But people of all three nations recognize that they are first and foremost Dom. This is the concept of the Three Nations in One. Of the three nations, the Domani are closest to the original "branch" of Dom. The names "Dom" and "Domani" are even used interchangeably in most cases, except when referring to a specific clan. (For example, a Lomav would never refer to himself as a Domo.) Historically-speaking, the Domani are the "original" Dom, from whom all other nations split. In the return from Sind, the Domani remained in what is now Darokin. Today they may still be found there, as well as in parts of Ylaruam and Western Thyatis. The Domani tend to be skilled artisans and craftsmen. Clans of Domani include the Domanichal, Gitoros, and Manushk. The Daro are the largest Dom nation. They are also referred to in Traladara as "Darine." The Daro split from the Domani after reaching what is now Darokin; the older, more influential families among the Domani would not agree to plans proposed by the current ruling family. The feud caused a great rift in the Dom, leading to the exodus of a majority of the people. This was the creation of the Daro. Today, Daro are found mainly in Traladara, Ierendi, and the Five Shires, with a few tribes in Minrothad and Vyalia. In fact, the feuds between Daro in Vyalia and Domani in other parts of far-western Thyatis has become the stuff of local legend. [Another interesting fact is that the Daro may very well be the origin of the word "Darokin," as they maintained a close association with a few scattered tribes that remained in the Streel Valley...a region later known as Eastwind.] The Daro are the best-known (and most numerous) Dom today. They are mainly entertainers, fortune-tellers, and thieves. Clans of Daro include the Kaldresh and Vistani. The Lomavren comprise the smallest and least-known Dom nation. When the Dom left Sind in 600 BC, about half of the Lomavren traveled west, out of Sind and into the Great Waste. They braved the journey across the treacherous Black Mountains (which only about two-thirds survived) and into the rich valleys of what is now Huyule (Hule). The other half of the Lomavren remained in Sind. They remained outside of the caste system, but adhered to the same strict standards of purity that characterize Dom culture from the Sindhi period onward (see below). With the rise of the Hagiarchy in Huyule, the Lomavren were ruthlessly persecuted in that state. Today, only about one-fifth of the original number survive. Nearly all of these adhere to the tenets of the national church. In Sind, Lomavren still thrive (in low numbers); many key members of the Sindhi resistance against their Huyulean invaders are, in fact, Lomavren. Clans of Lomavren include Sinthi and Kadi. The Dom, as a whole, have no one culture. As a nomadic, fractured people, their culture evolved as they traveled, picking up bits of local customs and beliefs here and there. Furthermore, no one can be certain of what distinguished the Dom from other Traldar peoples before their flight to Sind. In fact, most of the general cultural traits which are here labeled "Dom" are Sindhi in origin. However, no matter where they roam, the Dom have many things in common, historically and culturally. The Dom are also known as Kadreshi (after the Sindhi province where they lived) and as "tsigani." The term "tsigani" derives from the name of a Dom dance of wild, sensual abandonment, although as a name it has a darker, derisive connotation, implying immorality and dishonour. There are, today, approximately 120,000 Dom on all Mystara. They are one of the most oppressed people in the world, having a reputation for thievery, kidnapping babies, and even the worship of evil spirits (although of these terrible deeds, only occasional thieving is true). The Dom have been ruthlessly persecuted in Huyule, Glantri, and Thyatis in modern times, as well as in Darokin (in the times of independent merchant rule) and Minrothad (during the Silver Purge). To this day, many towns in Darokin have laws against Dom (specifically, Domani) even buying goods from their markets. It is estimated that half the Dom in Thyatis are enslaved. Most people believe that Dom are lazy, irresponsible, and predisposed to criminal behaviour. It is no surprise, considering the attitudes of non-Dom, that the Dom avoid them except when absolutely necessary. Unfortunately, in the modern world, it is more and mroe necessary for the Dom to have contact with outsiders, most notably in Darokin and Traladara, where civilization is burgeoning. Non-Dom are referred to as gajikane or gadji. The Daro refer to Traladarans as gorgios. Gadji laws are regarded as inferior, as they are dynamic while the laws of the Dom never need to be changed. Marriage to gadji is discouraged, or even prohibited outright in certain tribes. Dom trade with gadji for nearly everything, but this is out of necessity. A Dom tribe that can survive without gadji goods will do so. This is mainly due to the Dom codes of behaviour, by which most outsiders are ritually unclean. This state of impurity, brought on a person by the violation of a purity taboo, is called marime. (The expulsion brought about by this violation is also called marime.) There are many rules of purity for Dom to follow in order to avoid the state of marime. Many of these taboos involve water. Dom must wash only in running water (no tubs), and there is a hierarchy of for what that water may be used. For example, water for drinking and cooking is drawn far upstream from the camp; the clothing of men and women must be washed separately, downstream, with the clothing of pregnant and menstruating women farthest away. The rules of marime are especially restrictive of women. Women must not expose their legs; the bottom of their skirts may not brush up against any man but their husband. Pregnant or cycling women are considereed unclean, and must wash and eat separately. When a woman gives birth, all the blankets and clothing of childbed must be burned. The rules of marime encompass many aspects of Dom life, from birth and death to meals (the eating of horseflesh is prohibited) and pets (cats are considered especially unclean since they touch their own waste). The fear of impurity ties closely in with other traditional Dom beliefs and customs. Although contact with other cultures has changed Dom religious beliefs forever (most notably among the Daro of Traladara), while in Sind they were known as devout followers of the triple-aspect fertility goddess, Kali (Valerias). They also worshipped a male horned god (Faunus). Older influences also persisted, including belief in good (del) and evil (beng) spirits, bad luck (bibant), and evil spirits or undead creatures (melo). Dom believe in the power of charms and amulets, as well as curses and non-clerical healing rituals (drabarni). Due perhaps to Sindhi influence, Dom believe in reincarnation (as a person or animal). One may also come back as a mulo, or living dead, to seek revenge on those who harmed them in life. Dom children are typically given three names. The first, the birth name, is given by and known only to the mother. This is similar to the "true names" of other cultures, and serves to confuse evil spirits who might wnt to hurt the child. The second is given at the child's acceptance into the tribe, and is the name he or she will use with the tribe (and Dom society) for life. This acceptance into the tribe is similar to baptism in other cultures, and is occasioned by the father formally and publicly acknowledging the child as his own by either placing a ribbon on the child or by squeezing a few drops of his blood into the child's swaddling. The third name is given at baptism into an outside faith (especially in Huyule), and has little value within the tribe. Marriage traditionally takes place early in life, between the ages of 9 and 14. In some Daro tribes, the young people choose their mates, but traditionally the parents arrange the marriage. Marriage to outsiders is strongly discouraged, and premarital sex is forbidden. A bride-price, or durro is paid. At the pliashka, or engagement ceremony, the young man's father presents a necklace of gold coins to his future bori (daughter-in-law). The actual abiav, or wedding, is not religious in nature, and is more of a handfasting, an agreement between the partners. Different customs symbolize this union: couples may jump over a broomstick together for good luck, or feed each other salt and bread. Feasts and music go on for days; relatives usually present money as gifts. The bride's family escorts her to the young man's home. They unbraid her hair and put on a diklo (head scarf); she will never be seen in public without it again. The couple lives with the groom's family until they have many children. Interestingly, they will not refer to one another as "husband" and "wife" until they are parents. The Dom believe that death is a senseless, unnatural occurrence that should anger those who die. When a person is dying, their relatives gather around to ask for forgiveness for anything they might have done, so that the person's spirit will not haunt them. The person is cleaned and dressed before they die, as it is considered marime to touch the dead. If death was sudden and there was no time to prepare, a gadji is called in to prepare the body. Grief is overtly and publicly shown; no other activities take place in the hours following a death, including washing or eating.The use of the deceased's name is avoided, exept when absolutely necessary. Funerals are very large and crowded, with wourners wearing white (purity and protection) or red (blood, which stands for vitality and life). Some of the deceased's possessions are placed in the coffin, for use in the next life; everything else is destroyed, or sold to gadji. There is a pomana, a dinner held after the funeral at certain intervals, at which times different people announce that they are no longer in mourning: at 9 days, 6 weeks, 6 months, and 1 year after the death. The last to end mourning (at 1 year) are immediate family members. Aside from the taboos of marime, there are other domaniye, or typical customs or behaviours among the Dom. Dom believe that illness (prikaza) can be prevented or cured through natural (non-clerical) means. Some standard cures include shaking a young tree to reduce someone's fever; drinking powdered portions of certain animals, dissolved in liquor, to cure disease; carrying a mole's foot to cure rheumatism; or carrying a hedgehog's foot to prevent toothache. Dom, ever the wanderers, always carry their wealth, the women even sometimes weaving gold coins (galbi) into their hair. Women dress in bright clothing, with their heads and legs covered; men typically wear bright scarves, a hat, and a well-groomed moustache, even if he does not have nice clothing. The Dom diet is made up mainly of fruits and berries, leafy plants, mollusks, or small mammals (i.e., easily-gotten travelling food). The principal drink is coffee, sweetened heavily with sugar. Dom usually have coffee in the morning, no lunch, and then have dinner at sunset. Dinner consists of a thick, fatty stew of game meat and rice or potatoes. At feasts, the traditional meal is roast hedgehog, served with ale, wine, or spirits. Dom do not eat hoseflesh (it is marime), and kill only for food. The Dom adhere to their own law code, which they see as inherently more concerned with justice than gadji law. Dom see their law as superior to gadji law for three reasons: 1) it exists to protect the rights, interests, and traditions of the Dom; 2) it is inherently democratic; it does not discriminate against a person because of financial circumstances or political influence; and 3) it does not change. Dome law recognizes four primary associations (groups) in Dom society: natsia (nation), vitsa (clan), kumpaniya (tribe), and familiya (extended family unit). Disputes are settled from the bottom up; the smallest infractions (like a slight breach of marime or an unruly child) is handled at the family level, and so on. A divano, a kind of mediation council, may be called to iron out differences between clans. The gravest of crimes are tried in a Dom court, called a kris. In a kris, The judge (krisnitori) hears the sudience speak, as well as the accused, as it is recognized that any serious matter will affect the entre nation. Only Domanes (the Dom language) is traditionally spoken in kris, although a few Daro have been known to use Traladaran. The Dom have no jails, and no police or guards; the death penalty is rarely imposed, as it is believed that the spirit of the person the criminal harmed will avenge himself. Typical punishments include fines, corporal punishment, community service, or banishment. Banishment is considered to be the worst punishment a Dom can recieve, as it forever cuts him off from his entire family, culture, and lifestyle. Worse yet, due to the Wandering Curse, a banished Dom will still compelled to walk the world, alone. Only (an estimated) 5 to 10 percent of Dom have permanently settled down, many of these being slaves, or prisoners in gadji jails. Jennifer Favia valerya@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 02:32:57 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > You can name her sheriff, seneschal or give her any other title you like, > but not a nobiliar title, at least until you are named Viscount. > When you reach viscouncy, you are allowed to name any number of Barons to > rule parts of your domains. It is possible that the King keeps the right > to confirm (or not) any title given by his vassals, though this is not a > rule. > On the other hand, you cannot appoint another Baron to rule over a part of > your land, since this Baron would already have a fief of his own. First. You were talking about the Alphatian Empire. Alphatian social classes are ascending Slave Servant Freeman Gentry Aristocrat Lord / Lady Prince / Princess King / Queen Emperor / Empress So there are no 'ordinary' nobility ranks on the mainland. However, the Empire is vast, and for example King Ericall (PG to Alphatia p.17) grants lesser nobilities. "In Norwold this rank may be called Count or Baron, but back in Alphatia it ranks with Lord - this demi-ruler is considered a noble administrator for his King. The imperial throne does not rate this sort of dominion as a true dominion, for Ericall techniclly has the right to take it away from the ruler for breaches of the law". So Ericall grants the nobility under him, and the Empress grants the titles of the kings. Notify also that the Alphatian Kings have taken the fashionable title of a 'baron' for it sounds romantic and cool to them -- so an Alphatian baron is a king, ranking over a duke. In Thyatis also the Emperor grants nobility. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:29:47 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > "Having weighed all the offers I have received, I could only choose the course > that would be in the best interests of my people, my land, and most of all . . > . my child." Her voice cracks just a little here as her glance unconsciously > strays up the stairs to the infant's nursery. With gathering strength, she > goes on to say," And so My Lords, I present to you, my intended husband and > the next lord of Cold Harbor . . . 'Viscount' Churlo Mycrostar!" > > All eyes turn to look at the Halfling Warrior sitting quietly by the fire. > Looking up from his pipe, the old family friend of the dead Lord speaks his > first words as the next Master of this Hall: "Huh?" > Could you think of a halfling Richard III ;-) ? Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 05:44:35 GMT From: "John Polacek" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Quests for Immortality Both the Immortals Boxed Set and the Codex of the Immortals book in the WOTI describe ways that characters may achieve Immortal status. Both give summaries of the different paths that may be taken, but leave the detail up to the DM's, obviously for them to fit into a given character's situation. I was just curious to find out, from those among the list who have participated in campaigns dealing with the pursuit of immortality, what they as DM's or players specifically did. That is, as a DM what trials did you devise for your players, or as a player, what quests did your character embark upon. Basically what I'm after here is the specifics. The rules detail what is involved in each path to immortality, but I'm curious how individual campaigns fit these paths in with the campaign world of Mystara. Also, the Codex mentions that characters must discover where their sponsor entertains petitions from those seeking Immortality and that "each Immortal has one and only one Site where he or she receives candidates." Have any of these Sites been detailed by anyone or is this a juicy piece of Mystara that has yet to be fleshed out? ---- John Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 01:58:04 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Recently I posted the beginning of my character's quest in returning to the Tomb of Horrors. If anyone is interested, I'll post his journal as it is written (we're still running the game). The DM for my group placed it in the Malpheggi Swamp in western Karameikos and had some good background for it (although I probably won't get him to divulge his history until it's all said and done). Anyone interested? Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 02:01:59 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D yes please do post it...I for one would love to read about it One Eye the Dwarf *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 02:07:57 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names >This is not unheard of in the real world. A known Sibirian river, >the "Lena", was named after a Swedish exploration ship. (BTW, >the other ship of this expedition, the "Vega", even reached the >Pacific ocean.) > >It's the same principle Anne McCaffrey used on Pern in the >Dragonriders series. The places were already known, and then >she wrote a book, where all the humans landed on the planet >who beared exactly those names. Call it a pet peeve, but I tend to think there's already BEEN too many Mystaran places -- cities, nations, landforms, whatever -- named after people and/or Immortals! Sure, it's a handy way to account for a place-name, to say it's named for somebody ... but when that becomes the "default" explanation for EVERYTHING that's jotted on a map, we get stuck with abominations of nomenclature (like 'Rafielton' :-P) that make me want to gag. Couldn't we just say 'Davania' is ancient Blackmoorian for "Great Southland", or something...? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:48:08 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > >is that you can trade the land away, and someone else can build a keep > >there and try yo run for baronhood. > But hey, this is King Ericall! :) I think that as long as taxes keep > arriving at Alpha, that shouldn't be a problem... or would it? Nobles are so touchy... :) > >Knight > >Baronet > >Baron > >Viscount > >Count / Earl > Well I actually never been a knight, you know that justing plate is a little > bit to heavy for my pony. But Baronet? What's that? Uh, sorry; that was little more real-worldish thing I came to think of as I have tried to figure out the nobility for a while now. (Baronet is something like vis-baron). You don't need to be anything to become anything in RW. In Alphatia, you have to be magic user (incl. paladins and clerics and so forth), but you can become the Emperor without first being a Prince. > >We Glantrians have a great solution; blasting one another in pieces with > >Fireballs and granting the title to the last man standing. > Really? I thought that they'd just wait for the Day of Dread and hire > mercenaries. :) Whatever. IMC there are couple of years for the DoD, so they just blast one another. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:08:25 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 > >Transcend Life Force needs 50 rads in addition to other miraculous > >components, granting the caster the immortality. > Hmm, never knew about the 50 rads. Excellent! Is there any other juicy > tidbits of Radiance info that got edited out of G:KoM (my only source on the > subject). The "OFFICIAL" components of TLF are 50 rads lich's skull nightwing's tongue 12 ounces of ash from a greater phoenix pint of fresh steamy gremlin blood a tooth from the Star Dragon two mandragoras two malfera's eyes 12 feathers from an archon in addition the caster must be a Prince or an Archduke in glantri (see below) After casting the character falls into slumber, arriving at a golden door. There is 0% chance for a 20th level character, increasing 5%/level thereafter of getting through the door. If he fails, he wakes up (and must gather another set of the components...), if he succeeds, he must fight for a home plane with some outerplanar creature, and if he wins, that's it then. If he loses, he will feed Nucleus for year/level thus stopping the magic drain for a while. Nice catch; by journeying nit the chamber of the nucleus and casting some telepathy, the life forces feeding the artifact can be contacted. Other thing is that the Order of Radiance states the minimum distances of dominions from the City, and no-one is allowed use a receptable outside his or her dominion. Thus, Radiance-spells use nobility ranks as a measure of power; Call Upon Radiance augments spells 10% for Baron, 20% for Viscount and 70% for Prince. There are certain logical problems with this, but the idea is attracting. (Hightower is waaay closer to the City than Sirecchia). Thus Transcender must be Archduke at least. > >rads he has imbued in himself, he does not know how much he will get, and > >spells like Discharge use lots of Rads. In the beginning he does not even > >know that the Radiance is dangerous... > Hmm. Perhaps a candidate for a low level Radiance spell. Detect Radiance, > perhaps? with the ability to give you an amount in rads? Von Geiger's Detect Radiance making funny ticking voice :) > There is a probability that you are rotted. And wild magic is all about > luck, and influencing probabilities. So a wild mage could perhaps practice > Radiance magic with far less risk than a normal wiz. (Although, it has to > be said, wild magic has its own risks :) Dunno... I have never read about the W-Mages, so I don't know. > Rob the Chaotic - Markus P.S. Why is Gerrid Rientha the Duke of Westheath, as Westheath is (was?) the Archduchy in 1000ac? And the only forgotten noble from KoM is Baron of Kutchevski, Piotr-Grygory Timenko, what of him? (For those with no Gaz3 let it be told that he is just a vampire baron under Morphail with *nothing* special. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 09:58:15 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Heh, and if you want, for comparison I can post you mine :) (Im playing it at the moment as well :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 01:55:20 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Karameikos > > As Inoted before, whether by accident or design there is a fair amount of > > esoterica wrapped up in the 'givens' of the known world. > > I'm probably over-looking the obvious but how do you mean "conceals a > radically oriental origin"? I can see king-priests rising after the > fall of Nithia (I'm still holding that connections between the two > existed enough that some practices would be adopted). > > Timothy R. Haney "Amen-Tyris" / Threshold, Threshold has an oriental (ie Orient/Middle East) Egyptian ruin under it; slavers as a default type of rogue; the Magyar style aristocracy of the Kingdom; the god-king syndrome with Kign Stephen; Mirros/Specularum as noted previously; Black Eagle Barony's Fort Doom whilst meoldramatic and comical is also a good approximation of the Eagle's Nest castle of the hashishim; Halav vs. the Beastman is an ancient Indo-European / Middle-Eastern style aetiological myth; The Anubian Hutaaka and their Traldar slaves are Egypto-Koine in dress and manner (other than the HP Lovecraft / CA Smith monster-god in the temple in the lost valley) - the "look and feel" under the public "look and feel" is very strange when you think about it. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:12:10 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom So, if they're called "the Dom," does that make a female a "Dominatrix?" ;-) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:15:45 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D On Sat, 13 Mar 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > Recently I posted the beginning of my character's quest in returning to the > Tomb of Horrors. If anyone is interested, I'll post his journal as it is Sure, I'm interested. I'm _dying_ [:)] to find out how people fare in that thing. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 11:25:19 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: The Dom Bravo! Excellent piece of work! Well thought out, and highly detailled. I especially liked the breaking of the Dom into the 3 tribes - very epic in its own way. I don't suppose we'll learn more about those who went to Hule, would we? :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #126 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, March 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 127 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 Re: [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - Of Armies and Warfare [MYSTARA] - Re: Of Armies and Warfare, and this time off topic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:01:09 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >Bravo! Excellent piece of work! Well thought out, and highly detailled. I >especially liked the breaking of the Dom into the 3 tribes - very epic in >its own way. Thank you! :-))))))) >I don't suppose we'll learn more about those who went to >Hule, would we? :) Tsk, tsk, Geoff, for having to ask that! ;-) ...But, for anyone else who wonders what the heck we mean, the answer is yes, the Lomavren will figure heavily in my Huyulean Gazetteer (if I *ever* finish, that is!), on both sides of the Sindhi invasion, as well as the history of their persecution by the Church. Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 10:02:48 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >So, if they're called "the Dom," does that make a female a "Dominatrix?" > >;-) > >--Frobozz-- ROFL! :-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 14:54:28 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? I was looking over the map to the Krugel Orcs territories, and I can't help but notice how Hulean (ie: Turkish) sounding the place names are: Desert of Izlirun Ayskudag Wastelands (Ayskudag is also the name of a Hulean city) Yenidar River Desert of Boglucubul Karayazbul Outcroppings and of course the towns (Ucik, Ubul, Ukoy, etc...) - ever notice how they all begin with a "u"? Wonder if that has linguistic significance... Taking this into account, I wonder if some Hulean explorer met the Krugels' ancestors, and taught them his language? The connection just begs to be developed... ;-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 16:34:45 -0500 (EST) From: Frederic Ferro Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 This is a list of some Dragons of Mystara whose names are known. This includes mainly the Dragon Rulers of the Known World (Dragon #170) and characters in Gunnarson's novels _Dragonlord of Mystara_. Some names or events are not canonical but just pleased me. This compilation had contributions by members of the MML including Sharon Dornhoff, Haavard Faanes, Jamugha Khan, Solmyr and many others. As usual, corrections or additions are encouraged. - -- Amanth: an old Red female, in Wendar, near Glantri (Dragon Magazine #170) Ambur: a Red male, in Rockhome (Dragon Magazine #170) Arbendael: a Gold female, exalted servant and consort of the Great One, mother of Thelvaenier (Dragonlord of Mystara) Argos the Worrier: a Green male, in the Dymrak forest, Karameikos. (Dragon Magazine #170) Attura: a Green female, in the Atruaghin Plateau (Dragon Magazine #170) Azem: a Gold female, in Hin form in the Five Shires, has the feather of Maat (Dragon Magazine #170) Brulefer: Black male, in Ghyr (X12) Daresha: a Gold female, Marthean's mate and foster mother of Therandael (Dragonlord of Mystara) Diamond: the Star Dragon, Lawful Immortal (used to be Thelvyn the Gold, and briefly incarnated by the human Jaggar von Drachenfels). Druuwor: a White male, in the Makkres Mountains (Northern Reaches) (Dragon Magazine #170) Eruptaar: a Gold male, King of the nation of Dragons, in the MMB, "World in Flames", by Bruce Heard Galishan: a Gold male, in Glantri, may be a friend of Raknaar? (from netMAG2) Gheradaen: Gold male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Great Dragon: the first Dragon Immortal (Immortals set, WotI), was a member of the extinct "Gray" Dragons (Dragonlord of Mystara) Idris: an Immortal of Entropy. Black or Night Draconess/Dracologist? X Jaelynix: Blue female, Sind (Dragon Magazine #170) Jargnir: a Black female, in the Great Marsh (Soderfjord) (Dragon Magazine #170) Jherdar: a Red male, Speaker for the Reds (Dragonlord of Mystara) Kardyer: a Red male, killed by Thelvaenier (Dragonlord of Mystara) Khanistar: a Blue female, Ethengar (Dragon Magazine #170) Kharendaen: Gold female, mate of Thelvyn, went to the Draconic Cluster with the Immortal Diamond (Dragonlord of Mystara) Khordarg: a Red female, in the Orclands (PWA 1014 & 1015) Kirbey, Sir George: A Mandrake, became a Gold male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Lhoran: a Blue male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Lhorandyn: a Gold male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Marudi, a Blue male in Ylaruam (Dragon Magazine #170) Marthaen: a Gold male, Speaker of the Parliament and foster father of Therandael, probably still elder Speaker for the Golds (Dragonlord of Mystara) Murodnir: a Black male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Opal: the Sun Dragon, Neutral Immortal Pearl: the Moon Dragon, Chaotic Immortal Pyre: a Vermilion male, has the Ebony Eye (Savage Coast, Dragon#196) Raknaar: a Gold male, occupies Anton Vlaardoen's body in Glantri Respen-ak-Tarpis: a Red male, Prince of Arentela (GAZ 4, p. 27) Saerna: Ancient Dragon, belonged to the original race of the Great Dragon (Dragonlord of Mystara) Seldaek: Gold male, cleric of the Great One (head of Diamond's clergy, perhaps...?) (Dragonlord of Mystara) Synn: Queen of the Night Dragons, Dolores Hillsbury in Glantri Thalbar: a Black male (Dragonlord of Mystara) Thalkor: a Black male, in the Malpheggi Swamp in Darokin (Dragon Magazine #170) Thelvaenier: a Gold male, Diamond during his mortal life, son of the Great One and Arbendael (Dragonlord of Mystara) Therandael: a Gold female, daughter of Thelvaenier and Khaerendaen, raised by Marthaen (Dragonlord of Mystara) Thundar: a female Sea Dragon, north of the Aloysius Reefs (volcano of Thun, see map of PC2) (Dragon Magazine #170) Verdilith : Green male, in the Dymrak forest (Knight of Penhaligon) "Veronique Gaudin": a Gold female (?) in human form in Glantri, real name unknown (Mark of Amber) Vitriol: Black male, in Ghyr, X12 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:37:33 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? >Taking this into account, I wonder if some Hulean explorer met the >Krugels' ancestors, and taught them his language? > >The connection just begs to be developed... ;-) > Maybe the Krugel orcs are originally from Hule? ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:33:43 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >Uh, sorry; that was little more real-worldish thing I came to think of as >I have tried to figure out the nobility for a while now. (Baronet is >something like vis-baron). A landed lord. ie, someone who is granted land, but is not a baron... Don Luis de Manzanas is a baronet (Baronet of Aranjuez, IIRC) >Whatever. IMC there are couple of years for the DoD, so they just blast >one another. How crass. How... Glantrian. Cheerz Lord Rob, Rakasta Noble of Bellayne *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:38:27 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 >P.S. Why is Gerrid Rientha the Duke of Westheath, as Westheath is > (was?) the Archduchy in 1000ac? And the only forgotten noble from > KoM is Baron of Kutchevski, Piotr-Grygory Timenko, what of him? > (For those with no Gaz3 let it be told that he is just a vampire > baron under Morphail with *nothing* special. Westheath changed when Harald became Prince of Sablestone, so maybe that could explain query #1. As for #2... who knows. Although Sergei Wutyla was supposed to be active, and reading Boldavia in G:KoM inplies a bit of vampire creating/slaying activity, so maybe he was a Casualty of War against clerics or something... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 02:06:33 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - KoM -<>- Gaz3 > >P.S. Why is Gerrid Rientha the Duke of Westheath, as Westheath is > > (was?) the Archduchy in 1000ac? And the only forgotten noble from > Westheath changed when Harald became Prince of Sablestone, so maybe that > could explain query #1. First, Harald was both the Archduke _and_ the Prince at the same time, and second, Westheath is too close to the City to be a duchy. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 18:04:46 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. > > The connection just begs to be developed... ;-) > Well, the Master of Hule has always encouraged an enlightened, tolerant policy towards all races and ethnic backrounds, unlike the cruel discriminatory practices found in other nations such as Karameikos and Darokin (regretably, the attempt to liberate these regions from the opressive grip of their benighted ruling classes failed, for now. But one day the chains of racial opression will be removed, and these lands will be freed, and their rulers tried for their crimes against sentient creation). The Krugel Orcs, I am happy to say, benifited in the distant past from the open-minded policies of Hosadus. However, unfortunately, they came to think that all lands would treat them as equals, and because the Master of Hule imposes no constraints on the populace of Hule, they were free to emigrate, and chose to do so. Unfortunately, in their wanderings beyond Hule they encountered blind prejudice and hatered, and were nearly exterminated by anti-Humanoid campaigns of genocide. They were then hemmed into the Broken Lands, and did not feel strong enough to make the treck back to Hule without being wiped out by the humans and demi-humans who hated them. Shortly theirafter, the clan chief Krugel took service with the forces of Queen Udbala, who was at that time planning a punative expedition into Rockhome in order to free their bretheren from the Dwarves' wicked efforts to drive all non-dwarves from "their" mountains, in a campaign of racial purification and ethnic cleansing. Alas, this War of National Liberation failed, with unfortunate ramifications. Not only was Queen Udbala and most of her army destroyed, but the Dwarves succeeded in turning their nation into a "Dwarves only" enclave, ending all hope for a multicultural nation in that region. Chief Krugel and his band, however, were saved from the Dwarves' efforts to massacre them, and found their home in the Hollow World. Unfortunately, they were hardened by their experiences outside of Hule, and now are suspicious of the strangers they meet. This is "the hate that hate produced," a sad commentary on what can become of a people when they are at the recieving end of racial hatreds. Do not judge them harshly for reacting in ways that preserve their unique culture in the face of the antipathetic reaction of all non-humanoids they meet. The Krugel Horde has been marginalized by the mainstream of Mystaran culture. But on the Day of Liberation, when Master Hosadus brings freedom and equality to all of Mystara, the Krugel will take their rightful place in a truely multicultural world-state. -- Alrethus, Scribe and assistant to Hosadus, Master of Hule. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 00:48:30 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean connection? >>Taking this into account, I wonder if some Hulean explorer met the >>Krugels' ancestors, and taught them his language? >> >>The connection just begs to be developed... ;-) >> >Maybe the Krugel orcs are originally from Hule? More likely, it's the other way around: Hule has a fairly large number of humanoid citizens, so they've probably contributed plenty of orcish "loan words" to the Hulean tongue. After all, "Urzud" is an age-old humanoid (Grruuk?) place-name, that predates Hule by millenia. What's odd about the Krugels is that they seem to have picked up their cavalry-skills, AFTER they'd gotten to the Hollow World, when the SoP SHOULD have inhibited their ability to adapt and develop new cultural attributes! Either Krugel and his troops originally started out as horsemen -- possibly Ethengarians, like the Gostai goblins and other steppe tribes -- back before Sardal Pass, or else Kuraash gave them a few generations of freedom from the SoP's effects, when the orcs first arrived (which would also explain why they were able to adapt to sunlight). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:21:51 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >As someone else pointed out, your character had better check and see if the >other Viscounts would back you or not. If you are the odd man/Hin out, you >might find yourself being looked at as someone else's potential "conquest-to- >counthood." Hope not. Besides, I have a quite powerful army to back me up, because I have made friends with some dwarven tribe which lent me a bunch of dwarves for the army. >BTW/ one thing the book overlooks, but which campaigns should not, is the >importance of marriage, politics, and outright bribery involved in noble >promotions, especially in the field of a loosely organized nation/land mass >like Norwold. Today our current DM told me that there's a table in DotE that shows *exactly* how much money you have to spend to become an ambassador, a counselor... and even a Baron!!!! :) I told him about this you're saying and he was pretty interested! Maybe tomorrow (if we dispatch the 30000 thyatian footmen *and* the 5000 Heldannic knights who are about to lay a siege on Alpha) we'll do something about it. [You read it well, we have 6 thyatian legions just outside our doors!] >So maybe your character can marry his way to a higher title. >Especially if there was a female ruler looking to expand her rule and truly >did look at it as merely a marriage of convenience. You know what? The female mage that's currently ruling 3 of my hexes is no one other than Claransa the Seer. Maybe King Ericall grants her a Barony and I can marry her! :)) >enemies until the heir is old enough to rule. I'm seeing the way an alliance >of this kind might be shocking to the whole social structure, but it could >spawn some interesting adventures for the character. . . . > >Scene: In a cold, wintry great hall somewhere in Norwold: A small woman [megasnip] >All eyes turn to look at the Halfling Warrior sitting quietly by the fire. >Looking up from his pipe, the old family friend of the dead Lord speaks his >first words as the next Master of this Hall: "Huh?" > Man, you sure know how to write! :D x1000. But my name is Bungo Cervezarrubia. ;-) BTW, 'Cervezarrubia' means in Spanish literally 'blonde beer', or ale/lager, as opposed to a bitter like Guinness [why it's so difficult & expensive to have a Guinness here? it's just not fair!] Cya! Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:26:39 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >First. You were talking about the Alphatian Empire. > >Alphatian social classes are ascending >Slave >Servant >Freeman >Gentry >Aristocrat >Lord / Lady >Prince / Princess >King / Queen >Emperor / Empress > >So there are no 'ordinary' nobility ranks on the mainland. However, the >Empire is vast, and for example King Ericall (PG to Alphatia p.17) grants >lesser nobilities. "In Norwold this rank may be called Count or Baron, >but back in Alphatia it ranks with Lord - this demi-ruler is considered a >noble administrator for his King. The imperial throne does not rate this >sort of dominion as a true dominion, for Ericall techniclly has the right >to take it away from the ruler for breaches of the law". > >So Ericall grants the nobility under him, and the Empress grants the >titles of the kings. Notify also that the Alphatian Kings have taken the >fashionable title of a 'baron' for it sounds romantic and cool to them -- >so an Alphatian baron is a king, ranking over a duke. > >In Thyatis also the Emperor grants nobility. > What? I didn't know this! Just to keep my hide safe, I won't tell my DM about this, cos he'd probably took revenge on me for 'knowing too much'. So I think I'll do what my DM tells me to [in the end, we always do]. :) Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 03:28:58 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > >Could you think of a halfling Richard III ;-) ? > Halfling are very serious characters! yeah right. But I never understood why Mr. Gygax made it so hard for the halflings. Come on! The level advancement table is harder than the mage's or elf's! That means we're too powerful right? Right? Bungo Cervezarrubia *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:48:20 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >Man, you sure know how to write! :D x1000. But my name is Bungo >Cervezarrubia. ;-) BTW, 'Cervezarrubia' means in Spanish literally 'blonde >beer', or ale/lager, as opposed to a bitter like Guinness [why it's so >difficult & expensive to have a Guinness here? it's just not fair!] Heh. Ah well. As it sez on the posters, St Patricks day is coming up, leaving 364 practice days :) Cheerz Drunk Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:55:02 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > Today our current DM told me that there's a table in DotE that shows > *exactly* how much money you have to spend to become an ambassador, a > counselor... and even a Baron!!!! :) I told him about this you're saying and That's in Thyatis. Corrupt empires are corrupt empires, but it must be remembered that bribery is *very* delicate skill, and may turn out costly and/or deadly if the briber does not know what he is doing. In Alphatia, at least in mainland Alphatia, that shouldn't work. Norwold, then again, is not that detailed leaving GM quite free hands. > he was pretty interested! Maybe tomorrow (if we dispatch the 30000 thyatian > footmen *and* the 5000 Heldannic knights who are about to lay a siege on > Alpha) we'll do something about it. [You read it well, we have 6 thyatian > legions just outside our doors!] That is probably greater single army gathering than Roman Empire ever got together! If the thyatians were formed in three-file phalanxes, they would need 10km wide battlefield to spread in one line. > beer', or ale/lager, as opposed to a bitter like Guinness [why it's so > difficult & expensive to have a Guinness here? it's just not fair!] Guinness is f**ng expensive in here, too. But then again, bottle of drinkable red wine (.75l) costs around $10 here. We Finns sure know how to make taxation profitable. > Bungo Cervezarrubia - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:05:47 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > > "In Norwold this rank may be called Count or Baron, > >but back in Alphatia it ranks with Lord - this demi-ruler is considered a > >noble administrator for his King. The imperial throne does not rate this > >sort of dominion as a true dominion, for Ericall techniclly has the right > >to take it away from the ruler for breaches of the law". > What? I didn't know this! Just to keep my hide safe, I won't tell my DM > about this, cos he'd probably took revenge on me for 'knowing too much'. So > I think I'll do what my DM tells me to [in the end, we always do]. :) :) If I gamemastered Alphatian characters, I would *feed* them Player's Guide to Alphatia. Alas, I do so in Glantri, so I had to make around 10-15 pages (small font) of summary of how things work in Glantri. But, once again I say that Alphatian laws vary greatly as you go farther from Sundsvall and the mainland. On mainland, f.ex., all nobility is restricted to magic-users (incl. Avengers and clerics and whatever), but the colonies have their own ways. Ericall himself is (IIRC) not a magic user, but he is allowed to rule as Norwold is one of the farthest colonies. Another thing is that Norwold is a melting pot of Thyatian, Alphatian and Heldannic settlers, which makes a difference also. > Bungo Cervezarrubia - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:24:44 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >> he was pretty interested! Maybe tomorrow (if we dispatch the 30000 thyatian >> footmen *and* the 5000 Heldannic knights who are about to lay a siege on >> Alpha) we'll do something about it. [You read it well, we have 6 thyatian >> legions just outside our doors!] > >That is probably greater single army gathering than Roman Empire ever got >together! If the thyatians were formed in three-file phalanxes, they >would need 10km wide battlefield to spread in one line. Impressive. Mind you, the full Thyatian wartime army (ie when reserves have been mustered) is somewhere around 80 legions, of about 3000 men each (IIRC, im not dashing to the PWAs here :). Which is 240,000 men under arms. So, maybe... Not being a student of history.... what sort of size army did RW Rome have? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:49:09 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Of Armies and Warfare > >> he was pretty interested! Maybe tomorrow (if we dispatch the 30000 > >That is probably greater single army gathering than Roman Empire ever got > >together! If the thyatians were formed in three-file phalanxes, they > >would need 10km wide battlefield to spread in one line. > > Impressive. Mind you, the full Thyatian wartime army (ie when reserves have > been mustered) is somewhere around 80 legions, of about 3000 men each (IIRC, I dashed to PWA. Two elite Emperor's Cohorts, totaling 6600 men. Max. 23 Imperial Cohorts, totaling 76000 men. 60 cohorts of poor quality militia; Imperial Defenders, 198000 men. 12 Regular Naval Divisions, 19200 men. So it totals somewhere around 100.000 trained men and 200.000 militia men. But firstly, militia is only raised on a MAJOR conflict, like WotI. Forces like that are supposed to protect the huge empire, most of the forces are on Isle of Dawn (pre-WotI) and the rest are scattered throughout the Empire. If militia is raised, it probably cannot be used on *any* offensive action, poor morale and organization and training make it pretty much useless against fortified troops. I am neither a student of history, but in RW great armies faced three great problems, some of which Thyatis doesn't need to take care. Disease, hunger, slowness and guerilla sabotage. Disease spreads like wildfire on dry grass in such conditions. Filth is everywhere -- 30000 men in one encampment urinate over 60000 times per day. If they do so every time under a tree ( :) ), there are microbes everywhere. The stench soon becomes horrible, as the men bathe once in a week at best. If they are in intensive fights, they bathe practically never. And as they get wounded (RW people did not die of wounds, they died of infection), they get infected and sick, spreading disease around. As the army advances, the peasants burn their barns and fields, and the army runs out of food. Hungry army suffers serious loss of morale and weakening, and weakening speeds up the infections. Army which faces winter with no food is soon no army. Slowness and hard mobility make it very difficult to retreat to friendly territory. To counter these effects, Roman Army had a couple of excellent tactics. First of all, they built fortified encampments where ever they went. You know those Lavdanvm-ish things from Asterix. Second, they built roads to extend supply lines to hostile territories and borders. Romans ever knew something of hygienics and sanitation, thus winning disease. But they rarely massed legions into _huge_ armies. Thyatis (and yes, I know I should compare them with Byzantium in stead of Rome) doesn't have these problems, as the church supplies troops with morale, healing, food, drink and strength. However they have another downside with their massed armies: What is more delicious target for Alphatian combat magic than tight-packed formation? I don't know. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:56:29 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Of Armies and Warfare, and this time off topic > Disease spreads like wildfire on dry grass in such conditions. Filth is > everywhere -- 30000 men in one encampment urinate over 60000 times per > day. If they do so every time under a tree ( :) ), there are microbes > everywhere. The stench soon becomes horrible, as the men bathe once in > a week at best. If they are in intensive fights, they bathe practically > never. And as they get wounded (RW people did not die of wounds, they > died of infection), they get infected and sick, spreading disease around. Two things I forgot. In each and every war even as late as in the American North vs. South, there has been many more casualties made by disease, cold and hunger than by fighting. Other was that in the Finnish Ropecon (Role-Playing Con) we had a "Fright Night" lecture, where a certain pathologist spoke about what happens to person who gets shot in the chest or thrust by a spear. He put it very frankly: The best recipe for a medieval general for winning a war is very simple. Before every fight he had to have all his men plunge their weapons deep in to horse shit, for there are few bacteria that cause very lethal infection from the smallest of scars. Before penicilline, that is. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #127 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 128 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. [MYSTARA] - Roman Armies (was: Noble Titles/Of Armies and Warfare) Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom RE: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:30:44 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. > Well, the Master of Hule has always encouraged an enlightened, tolerant >policy towards all races and ethnic backrounds, unlike the cruel Ah, James, I see our months of playing weren't wasted. You've learned the truth! :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:22:18 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. James wrote: >> Well, the Master of Hule has always encouraged an enlightened, tolerant >>policy towards all races and ethnic backrounds, unlike the cruel LOL! I *loved* this piece! A perfect example of what the Hulean equivalent to a Ministry of Propaganda would issue. Imagine over 100,000 leaflets, in rough Thyatian, containing this message, and "anonymously" delivered throughout the major cities of the KW. Those who could read would be faced with a confusing little expose. I *really* think Hule should be active in the field of agitprop - it's the perfect nation to engage in that sort of thing - issuing words of support to "oppressed minorities" everywhere, promising eternal brotherhood under Hulean hegemony, that sort of thing. "Free humanoids of Ethengar! Smite the evil human foe who even now plots to eradicate you from the steppes that are rightfully yours! Only trust to the mighty Master to care for your interests, and all will be made whole..." Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 09:39:07 -0800 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: [MYSTARA] - Roman Armies (was: Noble Titles/Of Armies and Warfare) >Not being a student of history.... what sort of size army did RW Rome have? I can't really be bothered to go wading through my reference material to get you an exact answer, but if memory serves me, I seem to remember that Rome had somewhere between 10-15 legions of a theoretical size of 10,000 men. In truth, they maybe had only 1 or 2 legions of this size with the rest of them having only 3000 to 5000 men. Richard Drozdik *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 10:24:48 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. >I *really* think Hule should be active in the field of agitprop - it's the >perfect nation to engage in that sort of thing - issuing words of support >to "oppressed minorities" everywhere, promising eternal brotherhood under >Hulean hegemony, that sort of thing. Oh, absolutely! Not just Ethie humanoids, either, but also disaffected Darokinian small farmers, Traladarans, the non-spellcasting class of Glantri... "By the way, Master, who are we at war with today?...No, no! Not Room 101!..." 8-)~ Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:47:24 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World In a message dated 99-03-12 01:28:48 EST, galwylin@airnet.net writes: << Looks great! I believe I was able to find the current coastline (but if you ever get bored and want to sketch those in.. :) >> Thanks! One of the later versions will include the coastlines, but it will be a while. There will also be an Intermediate stage map, ca. 2000 through 1700 BC, showing the Isle of the Serpent as well as a few other surprises... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:48:58 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World In a message dated 99-03-12 02:00:51 EST, GlobalFrog@aol.com writes: << It looks great...but I REALLY like the Greyhawk addition to the known world that you have there. >> Thanks! Some day I will get around to posting the Mystaran Greyhawk History and Gazetteer... hope the map comes in handy! Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:03:51 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Krugel Orcs - Hulean Response. >I *really* think Hule should be active in the field of agitprop - it's the >perfect nation to engage in that sort of thing - issuing words of support >to "oppressed minorities" everywhere, promising eternal brotherhood under >Hulean hegemony, that sort of thing. > Pity you haven't been around in my PBEM :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 03:32:21 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Cynidicea To the Cynidicea group, Would you like me to post the preliminary "Drugs in Cynidicea" work that I have done to the e mail list here or would you like me to e mail it to you so that you can go over it first and put it with the rest of the information that we have done? cj *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:01:26 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: > > That's why I also was asking for personal campaign experiencies. What abot > yourself? > When I played CM1 (as DM) I made Ericall quite generous with his nobles. With a so big country, many rulers would be needed. Most were only Barons or Viscounts, keeping other titles for the most trusted vassals. IMC, you would have been promoted after a useful (to Ericall) deed. The biggest problem would have been demostrating the importance of your actions to the king (wich can be difficult, when you are very far from the court). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:04:19 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom And if I want to translate it to Dutch, how should we call the Dom? ("Dom" means stupid in Dutch... :) Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Jennifer Favia [SMTP:valerya@hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:03 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom > > > > >So, if they're called "the Dom," does that make a female a > "Dominatrix?" > > > >;-) > > > >--Frobozz-- > > ROFL! :-) > > > Jenn > > Explore Dark Myst Manor! > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:05:54 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D Sure, send it to the list. I'd like to know more of his quest!! Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Arminath@aol.com [SMTP:Arminath@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, March 13, 1999 7:58 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tomb of Horrors for OD&D > > Recently I posted the beginning of my character's quest in returning to > the > Tomb of Horrors. If anyone is interested, I'll post his journal as it is > written (we're still running the game). The DM for my group placed it in > the > Malpheggi Swamp in western Karameikos and had some good background for it > (although I probably won't get him to divulge his history until it's all > said > and done). Anyone interested? > > Jim > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 12:34:14 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Karameikos On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Timothy R. Haney wrote: > Agathokles wrote: > > > > Given the number of undeads involved, it is possible > > that some Entropic Immortal (Alphaks, perhaps) is behind this events, > > possibly trying to undermine Halav's base of followers. > > For an alternative to Alphaks, I believe Orcus has ties to Traladara and > was over the undead in AD&D (IIRC). > Considering that Orcus is also tied to lycanthropes, he is a good choice. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:35:13 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >And if I want to translate it to Dutch, how should we call the Dom? ("Dom" >means stupid in Dutch... :) > >Kristian Kramer Oh, my! ;-) Well, anything you think is appropriate will do, of course, but they were based on RL Rom/Romani/"gypsies"...So, you can call them a variation on the RL names, or make up one that isn't quite so insulting! Or, you can call them by the nation name, Domani (if *that's* not a bad thing too!:) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #128 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 16 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 129 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes (Alternate) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Trade Data (Alternate) Re: [MYSTARA] - Essay on Trade in Alphatia Re: [MYSTARA] - Trade in Alphatia (details of some cities). RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:46:37 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes (Alternate) The below is based on some stuff already posted by myself or Bruce Heard (I stole his Port Taxes), but not in a systematic way. I wrote it up for my webpages in prelude to doing a revision of Thyatian ports and trade goods modifiers (originally I planned only to do a section on port taxes, then get into the goods, but decided all the taxes needed to be covered systematically. So ports will have to come later). Thyatian Taxation Within Thyatis there are three types of taxes: the trade/sales tax (the Commercia), income taxes (mainly used here because of their ease in accounting), and land taxes. The Commercia: This is a sales tax of 10% imposed on all transactions with the exception of food, clothing, and fixed assets (like buildings). It is levied on all imports, but rebated on all exports (in an effort to promote the sale of Thyatian goods abroad). Various tolls (including harbor fees) are also levied. The Commercia and the major fees are collected by Imperial tax agents. There is a 10% fee for exchanging foreign currency (all transactions must be in Thyatian currency), the proceeds of which go to the Thyatian mint to fund their operations. Lesser tolls, excises, etc. are collected by local agents. Port fees in Thyatis are as follows1: Port Class A: Port Fee 1gp/HP daily Port Class B: Port Fee 8sp/HP daily Port Class C: Port Fee 5sp/HP daily Port Class D: Port Fee 1gp/HP weekly Port Class E: Port Fee 8sp/HP weekly Port Class F: Port Fee 5sp/HP weekly This income goes to financing the local administration and community, and in Thyatis City in particular it provides major fiscal income, which is used to maintain The City's guard forces (the Deme militias in particular), with significant revenue going to the Imperial Government for its own purposes. Once additional fees are added, a surtax of 4% is added to the above (in other words, a ship of 120 HP docking in Thyatis City for 5 days pays 624 GP). Dispite these taxes Thyatian ports remain among the most popular visited by merchants, because Thyatis (following the sinking of Alphatia) is the largest market in the Known World. Even before the sinking of Alphatia Thyatian ports were popular because the journey to them was much shorter than to Alphatia. Thyatis has a thriving (and, post Wrath, growing) merchant class of its own, and their are indications that Eusebius intends to remake the Thyatian Empire into a merchantilist, rather than military, Imperium2. Income Taxes: These are retained because they are easy for DMs to use to determine what PCs owe. Using this system, all countries (not just Thyatis) should expect their citizens to pay taxes on their incomes. Thyatis assesses income tax of 20% on the poor, with a 25% surtax on all incomes above 100gp/month3 and on the nobility/aristocracy. This means their effective tax rate is 25% instead of 20%. Expensive equipment and magical items recieved in payment for services or gained while adventuring are considered to be income. There is no tax on inheritance, however, mainly to permit landowners to pass on their lands to their heirs without burdensome taxes (many such heirs would have cash on hand to pay taxes and would have to sell off property if a inheritance tax was imposed). Land Taxes: Land Taxes should probably be the most important for most nations. In Thyatis lands are taxed as follows, per month3: good irrigated land: 1 gp/10 acres good unirrigated land: 1 gp/15 acres average irrigated land: 1 gp/15 acres average unirrigated land: 1 gp/25 acres Orchard (includes olive trees, mulberry trees, etc): 1 gp/40 trees. Vineyard or garden: 1 gp/5 acres, (could be up to 1 gp/acre if rich). The above is only a rough guide. Pastorial lands (for herds) are taxed differently (and may differ depending on the type of herds, cattle vs. sheep or horses, for example), and the like. Since players are unlikely to get too involved in the details of agriculture, we'll leave it simplified. Land Taxes only cover the area under cultivation, which should be under two thirds of the total area of the nation, and for some notably "wilderness" realms, might be a third, or even less, of the total area under the jurisdiction of the nation in question (in other words, Bellissaria and even Alphatia, though vast in size but sparsely populated, will not recieve tax income for every square acre of land, the vast majority of which is not under cultivation. Still, the parts that are under cultivation are vast compared to KW nations, and form a main source of revenue without which castles enchanted on rolling wheels and other items that advance human welfare would not be possible). Hearth or Poll Taxes: Hearth, without oxen: 4 sp Hearth, with one ox: 5 sp Hearth, 2+ oxen: 10 sp (1 gp) Hearth, urban: 20 sp (2 gp) Hearth Taxes are included along with Land Taxes because they are a form of property tax. Note that in Thyatis another type of tax is often imposed, and that is the "tax" of military lands (the Stratiotika Ktimata), which are granted out by the government in return for the landholder providing military service (similar to Knightly fiefs in other lands). Corvee Labor ("Standard" income in the terms of the Dominion Rules from the Rules Cyclopedia) is above and beyond the cash tax, and is generally imposed by the local dominion ruler, though for important projects (roads, fortifications) the Imperial Government can commandeer this labor source. Citizens also pay a surtax on all the slaves they own, roughly 25% of their assessed value per year Tax Summary: Recently raided lands/communities may have their taxes partially remited (land and hearth taxes, for example, but almost never income, commercial, and military service). Most free landholder pesants pay only hearth and land taxes, and little in the way of either income or commercial taxes (since the goods they buy and sell are generally the types that are exempt from the Commercia). Wealthy landholders likely pay all three (commercial taxes on the sumptuaries they buy, land taxes on their lands, and income taxes on the rents and other sources of cash income). 1These figures are taken directly from Bruce Heard's article on Port Taxes which can be found at Stan's D&D Site http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/porttax.html The numbers are adjusted for "typical" tax rates (based on the Dominion Income Rules from the Rules Cyclopedia). If using Bruce's "Silver Standard" based system, divide all numbers by 10. 2More along the lines of the British and Byzantine rather than Roman empire. 3Per Year if using the "Silver Standard". The above can all be found at: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/economia.html in full HTML glory. http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis.html Leads to other pages which might interest you if you haven't seen them already. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:03:40 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Trade Data (Alternate) Thyatian Trade Information The following updates various information that will be valuable for commerce and trade within my variant Thyatis. An updated listing taxation information for Thyatis will be placed on a separate page. Thyatian Entrepots Most Thyatian commercial centers are, not surprisingly, ports, or towns along rivers which can be reached by shallow-draft vessels. In Thyatis overland trade is normally limited to caravans transporting goods to the nearest port town or city, where they can be loaded into ships. The main exception to this is the route through the Altan Tepes via Biazzan, importing or exporting across the border into Ylaruam or down the pass into Thyatis. Goods from Buhrohur and Halathius are usually transported down the rivers by barge, or (for the most valuable cargos) via magic. The harbors of Thyatian towns tend to be larger than their Alphatian counterparts, in part because Thyatians are more trade-oriented than Alphatians are (Alphatians buy goods, but aren't known for their merchantile habits, and they are known more for their prestegious pleasure and military airships than for their seamanship). However, because Alphatia has so many more coastal towns, their total port capacity outstrips that of Thyatis. Thyatis City (600,000) Vanya's Girdle harbor: A (15,000 HP) Silk -2, Weapons & tools -3, Armor - -3, Mounts -2, Textiles -3, Cloth -3, Glassware -1. Fur +3, Gems +3, Precious Metals +3, Spices +3, Oil +2, Dye & Pigments +3 Thyatian glassware, though not notably cheaper than other glassware, is among the best in the world, with few bubbles or imperfections.Thyatian irridesent glass is widely sought after (+2 to sale rolls outside of Thyatis). Thyatian silk and textiles are often finely detailed due to the unique methods used in their production. +1 to sale rolls outside of Thyatis for Silk, Textiles, and Cloth. Commercial, theocratic, and merchantile capital of the Known World. Thyatis City (600,000) (Mesonian River docks: C (5,000 HP) Same as above Kerendas (100,000) B (10,000 HP) Beer & ale -2, Animals -2, Wine -2, Grain & Vegetables -3, Common Metals +3, Common Woods +3, Dye +2, Oil +2. Kerendan Horses are widely famed and recieve +2 on sale rolls outside of Thyatis. Horses, Warhorses, Cattle. Port Lucinius (40,000) B (10,000 HP) Fish, preserved -3, Oil -2, Dye & Pigments -2, Common Wood +2, Cloth +2, Beer, Ale +2. Major naval center, which accounts for the wood & cloth imports (and beer). Dye from crustaceans found offshore. Tel Akbir (20,000) D (2,000 HP) Beer, Ale -2, Coffee -2, Oil -2, Cloth -2, Dye & Pigments -2, Hides +2 Dye & Pigments similar to those of Lucinius, crusteceans. Dawnpoint (10,000) C (5,000 HP) Fish -2, Oil -2, Pottery -2 Wine & Spirits +2, Common Wood +2 Major naval base during the Wrath war. Hattias (30,000) E (1,000 HP) Meat -4, hides -4, Animals (sheep, goats) -3, Beer, Ale +2, Weapons +2, Armor +2 Non-Thyatian merchants suffer +/- 1-2 on all trade rolls due to Hattian intolerance. Retebius (15,000) D (2,000 HP) Animals -3 (cows, bulls, horses), Hides, Furs -2 Monsters +4, Weapons +2 Only monsters that are trainable as flying mounts recieve the import bonus. Kantridae (10,000) D (2,000 HP) Grain & Vegetables -2, Fish, preserved -3, Wine, spirits -2 Pottery +2, Glassware +2. Once a city of 30,000 Lonecove (5,000) D (2,000 HP) Wine, spirits -2, Salt -2, Fish -2, Cloth +2, Meat +2 Port town in the Duchy of Lucinius Hillcape (5,000) E (1,000 HP) Common metals -2, Porcelain, fine -2 Meat +2, Tea +2. Town in the Duchy of Lucinius, Torion (5,000) D (2,000) Fish -2, Tea -2, Spices -3 Wood, precious +3, Ivory +3, Spices +3 Estates of the wealthy on Carytion import luxuries. Larger than normal docks for noble yachts and naval ships (not available formerchants). Argevin (5,000) C (5,000 HP) Salt -2, Dye & Pigments -3, Fish -2 Wood, Precious +3, Porcelain, fine +3, Spices +2, Tea +2, Wine, spirits +3 Resort community, port larger than normal to accomodate tourist vessels Actius (8,000) C (5,000 HP) Fish -2, Salt -2 Common Wood +3, Cloth +3 Major shipbuilding center. Grey Bay (5,000) E (1,000 HP) Meat -3, Oil -2, Beer, Ale +2, Pottery +2 Go the Grey Bay Packers! Pilion (5,000) D (2,000 HP) Wine & Spirits -2, Animals (sheep, goats) -2, Beer, Ale +2, Common Metals +2. Main seaport for Hattias. Port Hatti (10,000) C (5,000 HP) Grain & Vegitables -2, Hides, furs - -3, animals -2 Cloth +2, Textiles +2, Common Wood +2 Hattian suburb of Thyatis City, main port for shipment of goods from Hattias to The City. Vinton (5,000) D (2,000 HP) Wine, spirits -3, Porcelain, fine -2, Fish -3 Pottery +2, Textiles +2 Major wine producing region. Hillfork (10,000) E (1,000 HP) Common Metals -2, Grain & Vegetables -2, Animals (pigs, poultry) -2 Textiles +2, Weapons & Tools +2 Market town on the Mesonian river. Julinius (10,000) C (5,000 HP) Salt -2, Dye & Pigments -2 Common wood -2, Common Metals -2 Naval port protecting western end of Vanya's Girdle. Bayville (5,000) D (2,000 HP) Animals -2, meats -2, Common metals +2, Semiprecious stones +2 Market town of eastern Kerendas. Bridleton (10,000) E (2,000 HP) Mounts -2, Grain & Vegtables -2 Wine, spirits +2, Cloth +2 Market town of central Kerendas. Terentias (10,000) C (5,000 HP) Oil -2, Fish -2, Common Wood +2, Weapons & Tools +2 Noted elven buccaneer base. Machetos (2,500) E (1,000 HP) Grain & Vegetables -3, Common Wood -3, Weapons, tools +2, Cloth +2 Prosperous trading gateway into Karameikos. Foreston (5,000) F (500 HP) Spices -2, Fine Porcelain -3, Silk +2, Precious metals +2 Some precious wood gathered, but no treecutting. Foreston also serves the nearby town of Greenheight. Biazzan (12,500) D (no port) Silk -2, Spices -2, Tea -2, Animals +2, Ivory +2, Rare Books +2. Noted university community and trade depot into Ylaruam. Makrast (3,000) D (no port) Common Metals -3, Semiprecious stones -3, Gems -3, Spices +2, Beer & Ale +3, Wine & Spirits +3. Dwarven mining community in the Altan Tepes mountains. Goldleaf (4,000) D (no port) Common Metals -3, Precious Metals -3, Oil +4, Meat +4 Major gold and mineral mines. By the way, that also looks much better on the webpage where it's formating is clearer: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/Trade.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:59:24 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Essay on Trade in Alphatia What follows is the first of two posts. The below is an essay on trade (and the role of merchants) within Alphatia, which will form the basis of a later post describing many of Alphatia's harbors. I *eventually* hope to detail all Alphatian ports in the same way I did for Thyatis recently, but the complete list will take some time, since I estimate their are well over 100 communities (including ports, towns, etc) within Alphatia that could be detailed. Alphatian Trade Information The following updates various information that will be valuable for commerce and trade within Alphatia (pre-Wrath). All information is described to be compatable with the trade rules in the Minrothad and Darokin Gazetteers. For Alphatian communities it is often valuable to differentiate between port capacity (ships in harbor) and the City's trade Classification (size of potential transactions). For example, Sundsvall has rather small harbor facilities, but does have a huge amount of goods available for trade. Alphatian Entrepots Alphatia is not known for its enterprising, merchantile spirit. While its economy is strong, that economy is based on magic and the explotation of labor of the slave and servant classes, not on trade. Alphatian tradesmen can be prominent, valued members of the community, especially insofar as they ingratiate themselves with the magocratic ruling class (becoming a sort of factotum). This works best for craftsmen in particular towns or cities, who are able to maintain a long, benifitial relationship with the local rulers. Actual merchants of the caravan and shipping trades are marginalized members of the gentry, neither seen nor heard by the spellcasting elite (since they deal primarily with other members of the gentry, not with the aristocracy). As such, they do not have nearly the status of their counterparts in Karameikos or Thyatis, much less Darokin or Minrothad. But this makes the life of a trader ideal for adventurers who want to maintain a low profile (they'll be ignored almost as if they were invisible by the powerful). Furthermore, Alphatians tend to adopt aloof and arrogant towards non-Alphatian peoples and places, and thus are not very enterprising on the whole. While the Alphatians will condecend to accept their wares if the Barbarians bring them to Alphatian harbors, and permit the Barbarians to buy Alphatian goods (if the barbarians are sufficiently humble), the idea of going to some filthy foreign port and actually seeking out the goods of these rustics is benieth the dignity of an Alphatian. All this, the lower (and almost disreputable) status of merchantile traders, and the attitude of Alphatians towards foreigners, keeps Alphatian traders proportionally small in numbers compaired to their counterparts in foreign lands. Alphatian traders tend to come from marginal areas of the Empire (free Jennites, Dunadalers) and peoples (former slaves). This also means that a large number of non-Alphatian traders (foreign barbarians) trade in Alphatian areas (Minrothaders, Mineans who are not, or even ones who are sometimes pirates, and even Thyatians: the war of the Spike Assault started over a matter of trade). This is not to say the Alphatian traders are not as cunning and skillful as their foreign counterparts. It would be more accurate to say that they are insufficiently numerous to fully serve Alphatia's trading needs. Still, all things in Alphatia are of such a magnitude that the number of Alphatian's involved in transportation (caravan and sea) trade easily outnumber the combined total of Darokinian and Minrothadian merchants. But clearly they lack the wealth and influence, in addition to the prominence, of the traders in noted merchant-states. This has led to a rough, informal division of labor. Foreign barbarians carry on the majority of the interface trade, bringing their rough goods from their rustic nations for sale in Alphatia's ports and then buying Alphatian goods for export beyond the pristine borders of the Alphatian Empire. Native Alphatian tradesmen conduct most of Alphatia's internal trade, transporting goods from one Alphatian community to another, rarely leaving the confines of the magical Empire. Another note: in Alphatia, the rulers are most often concerned (meaning interested) in improving their comunity's aesthetic appearance, or improving the realm's defences by financing fortifications enchanted to move around on large rollers. Infrastructure for merchants, especially foreign barbarians and even Alphatian guttertrash (non-spellcasters) takes a back seat to this. Which means many Alphatian harbors (except the skyship and naval bases) tend to be poorly maintained. This enhances the tendancy for Alphatian ports to have two Classifications, one for harbor size (usually smaller than might be expected), and another for cargo/transaction size (which can be quite large, considering the productivity of Alphatia's economy). Again, the huge scale of activity within Alphatia means that even though individual towns (and even some cities) may have smaller harbor facilities than their counterparts elsewhere in the world, the agregate total of Alphatia's port capacity (in Hull Points) dwarfs that of any other nation. The above was nessisary because it will provide some of the assumptions I will use regarding Alphatian commercial centers. This will also mean that the outcome may differ from what others have suggested regarding Alphatian ports (notably the Alphatian portion of the recient "Port Capacities" post, which can be found at Stan's site for reference and comparison at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/exp_imp.html Note also that those who are interested in providing suggested information regarding port size, transaction classification, and trade information for various Alphatian ports are welcome to send them to me. This includes, but is not limited to, people who are writting Gazetters for various Alphatian kingdoms and who have ideas as to what goods would be imported and exported from the various cities and towns.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:10:42 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Trade in Alphatia (details of some cities). Below is the first set of Alphatian cities, detailed for use with the trading rules found in the Minrothad and Darokin Gazetteers. I decided to describe them both pre- and post-Wrath of the Immortals. An interesting pattern emerged, whereby it became apparent that many of these cities (and not just the Aasla and Sundsvall) would be going through a period of economic hardship and adjustment. Since these are coastal communities which relied upon the sea for both trade and sometimes for trade goods (fish, ivory), and for their purpose (Eagret notably), this is understandably. Cities and towns in the Alphatian interior would likely show no such difficulty. It is only the periphery/rim of the continent which evidences this. LIKELY ULTIMATE OUTCOME: Over time, predict a movement of the center of Alphatia's population away from the rim of the continent, and into the interior (especially along rivers, however). The new capital rising at Jafilia, near the center of the floating continent, is the first concrete sign of this occuring. By the way, this is all more clearly formated at: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/AlphTrade.html Community Classification Goods Notes Aasla (400,000) A (15,000 HP) (Pre-WotI) A (Transactions) Gems -5, Spice -5, Glassware -2, Ivory -2, Common Metal -2 Fish +4, Monsters +5, Rare Books +5, Precious Metals +6, Silk +5 Main Alphatian export/import harbor, known for its artists, open to outsiders (relatively). Aasla (20,000) C (5,000 HP) (Post-WotI) C (Transactions) Common Metal -2, Glassware -2 Grain and Vegetables +3, Meat +3 Destitute scavengers and impoverished survivors of the city's destruction. Anyone able to has moved elsewhere. Sundsvall (500,000) C (5,000 HP) (Pre-WotI) A (Transactions) (spider) silk -4, rare books -4, Porcelain -4 Animals (slaves) +5, Precious Metals +4, Spices +4, Monsters +3 Capital of the Alphatian Empire, center of Alphatian learning and magic. Sundsvall (50,000) C (5,000 HP) (Post-WotI) C (Transactions) rare books -2, Common metals -2 (scrap), Grain and Vegetables +3, Meat +3 Survivalist community scavanging amid the ruins. Monsters released from bonds (sometimes magical Wards), escaped slaves and other disidents occupy large sections of the devistated city, making it one of the more dangerous areas on the floating continent (second to Blackheart, and for non-spellcasters Bluenose. Possibly the most dangerous area for known spellcasters). Draco (550,000) A (15,000 HP) (Pre-Wrath) A (Transactions) Weapons & Tools -3, Armor -3, Fish -3, Ivory -3 Mounts +4, Common Metals +3, Beer & Ale +3 Largest Alphatian City. No prejudice against non-mages (thus ignored by most Alphatiaphiles). Prominent warrior and merchantile community. Ivory from whalers. Draco (550,000) C (5,000 HP) (Pre-Wrath) A (Transactions) Weapons & Tools -3, Armor -3 Mounts +4, Common Metals +3, Beer & Ale +3 Largest Alphatian City. No prejudice against non-mages. Prominent warrior and merchantile community. Harbor capacity lowered because of lack of ocean or river access (floating continent) leading to port decay. Only ships now docking are of the flying variety, and they are few. Eagret (100,000) B (10,000 HP) (Pre-WotI) B (Transactions) Salt -4, Dye & Pigments -3 Common Wood +4, Cloth +4 Main Alphatian Naval base dominates most of harbor. Eagret (100,000) C (5,000 HP) (Post-WotI) B (Transactions) Grain & Vegetables -2, Cloth +2 Economy suffering badly now that seagoing navy and oceanic ship construction is obsolete. Trollhattan (40,000) E (1,000 HP) (Pre and post-WotI) D (Transactions) Monsters -3, Common Metals -3 Weapons & Tools +4, Hides & Furs +3, Animals (fresh) +3 City of "monsters", atmosphere of "frontier justice" (though not as extreme as found in Bluenose). Bluenose (50,000) C (5,000 HP) (Pre and post-WotI) B (Transactions) Rare Books -3, Wine & spirits +4, Tea +3, Precious Wood +4, Rare Furs +4 Community of arrogant snobs, merchants are advised to confine their activities to the harbor and not deal with the dangerously sociopathic nobles. Denwarf-Hurgon X (no port) (30,000) C (Transactions) (Pre and post-WotI) Weapons & Tools -4, Armor -4, Common metals -3, Grain & Vegetables +3, Beer & Ale +3 Most industrious community in Alphatia, most skilled craftsmen in the continent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:13:00 +0100 From: Stewart James A1C 31MXS/LGMTW Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Hi there, I believe that domani means tomorrow in Italian, in case you wanted to know. James Stewart > ---------- > From: Jennifer Favia[SMTP:valerya@hotmail.com] > Reply To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Sent: Monday, March 15, 1999 7:35 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom > > > > > >And if I want to translate it to Dutch, how should we call the Dom? > ("Dom" > >means stupid in Dutch... :) > > > >Kristian Kramer > > Oh, my! ;-) Well, anything you think is appropriate will do, of course, > but they were based on RL Rom/Romani/"gypsies"...So, you can call them a > variation on the RL names, or make up one that isn't quite so insulting! > Or, you can call them by the nation name, Domani (if *that's* not a bad > thing too!:) > > Jenn > > > Explore Dark Myst Manor! > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:58:23 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom > I believe that domani means tomorrow in Italian, in case you wanted to >know. > >James Stewart Aack! :-) Okay, y'all, I wrote it in English, and picked names that are only a slight variation on the originals (IRL)...I understand that many of you might not be too happy with those names, because it does not fit well with the language in which you play. So change them! I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm flattered that anyone would use my creations in their campaigns, and so I don't mind at all if you tinker around with them a bit to make them fit your version of Mystara (no matter what the language). On a more personal note, I'm a little chagrined that the *only* response to this whole post has been about what "Dom" or "Domani" mean in different languages...sheesh! ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:06:42 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? okay people, I just returned from central Europe and havent checked my email in more than a week. Here is something I shouldve sent last week if I had been connected. On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: [on RuneQuest] > >> Also since 1978 it's the incredible crappy world. :-) > > > You are talking about Fantasy Europe or Glorantha here? > That'll be Glorantha of course. The pantheon is so clumsly laid out that > Divine magic ends up being a bad joke. And I'll tell you that our DM did > everything he could to run a decent campaign -- and it worked. But he's > never going to run a RQ campaign again. :( I had a completely different experience. Glorantha is probably one of the most well detailed settings around. A bit weird, but definately good. I dont know exactly what you mean with that comment on the pantheon. After all there is more than one pantheon. Buying a few extra books, might be a good idea, although they are next to impossible to find, unless you speak french. > > Anyway, systems that might work with Mystara: > > [snip] > > > Pendragon; A quicker, simpler version of RuneQuest. We have converted all > > our RQ campaigns into this system cause things tend to be rather slow in > > the RQ system. > > Read: combat. The battles in RQ tend to be always the same: the PCs against > *one*big*guy*, never a swarm of undead, for instance. When there's more than > 10 people in a fight, it takes forever. Yep. A piece of advice; drop the hit location system and give the characters a few more hit points. > But Pendragon has a character creation process that is a scaled down version > of GURPS. Is this a bad thing? > > GURPS; This is the system I currently use. The mechanics, like those of RQ > > are a bit slow, but you can create any PC you can imagine. This system > > also works well if youre planning on doing a Blackmoor campaign. > And so in RQ, you can create a half-ogre ninja/bard/witch doctor if you > fancy. :-) Yep, but you'll have to start as a half-ogre herder and work your way up... > Hmmm, why do you say that about Blackmoor? Because GURPS has complete rules for high tech stuff which could come in handy in Blackmoor campaigns. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #129 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 16 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 130 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules [MYSTARA] - Prologue II ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:17:18 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules Here is a set of capsule descriptions of some of the more interesting Mystaran nation's governments (or at least the ones I find most interesting). Note that in some cases the "founding document" isn't a formal document (like the US Constitution). In one case (Alphatia) it is a alien philosophical concept (the Melian Dialogue, c.f. Thucididies), and in several cases it is an action. Also, this "foundational document" may not take place at the begining of a country's history (though in most cases it takes place at or near the begining). This is the "document" or doctrine which provides the current political arrangement with its ligitimacy (thus, earlier forms of governmental organization which are superseeded by this doctrine, for example the Darokinian Kings or Glantri before the limitation of nobility to mages only, are ignored). Nation: Alphatia Government Type: MED (Magically Elivated Dictatorship). Founding Document: Melian Dialogue. Notes: Rule by arbitrary fiat. Some rulers diligent and capable, but that is not a requirement of leadership. Nation: Thyatis Government Type: CI/FT (Corporatist Imperium/Feudal Technocracy). Founding Document: Valentia's Citizenship Proclamation Notes: Government by specific individuals for those who agree to be ruled. Corruption currently rampant. Nation: Karameikos Government Type: CD (Charismatic Dictatorship) Founding Document: Thincol's agreement with Stefan. Notes: Government by a single leader and his cronies enjoying the confidence of the citizens. Nation: Ylaruam Government Type: RD (Religious Dictatorship) Founding Document: The Nahmeh Notes: Government by religious leaders decended from the regime of al-Kalim. Religion focused on a cult of personality surrouding the founder. Nation: Ierendi Government Type: IP (Impersonal Bureaucracy) Founding Document: "Mad Creeg's" establishment of the Council of Lords. Notes: Tribulal (in charge of the bureax) arranges yearly moot election/competition for an honorary Kingship. Nation: Minrothad Government Type: SPO (Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy) Founding Document: "Great Uniter"/Foundation of the trading federation. Notes: Government by various guild leaders. May transform under the rulership of Oran Meditor into either a CD (Charismatic Dictatorship) or FT (Feudal Technocracy, with the guild leaders as technocrats under the leadership of Meditor). Nation: Darokin Government Type: CO (Charismatic Oligarchy) Founding Document: The Great Merger Notes: Government by a select class (plutocrats) enjoying the overwhelming confidence of the citizenry. Maintains the formal procedures of a RD (Representative Democracy) to make the authority of the Oligarchs more palitable. Nation: Glantri Government Type: B/MED (Balkanized, Magically Elivated Dictatorships) Founding Document: Light of Rad (council session excluding non-mages from nobility) Notes: Non-Mages excluded from rulership. Many small principalities which squabble among themselves as frequently (or more frequently) than they unite against outsiders. Nation: Norwold Government Type: CC (Captive Government/Colony) Founding Document: Eriadna giving Norwold to Ericall as a present. Notes: Government by a leadership answerable to an outside nation (Alphatia) which occupies the region by fiat. Nation: Hule Government Type: RA (Religious Autocracy) Founding Document: Either "the Comming of the Master" or "The Ten Devotions" or any number of documents and theories. In Hule, its hard to tell. Notes: Government by a single religious leader having absolute authority over the citizenry. As usual, there's a webpage: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/Code.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 15:05:29 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom In a message dated 16/03/99 18:02:01 GMT, you write: << On a more personal note, I'm a little chagrined that the *only* response to this whole post has been about what "Dom" or "Domani" mean in different languages...sheesh! ;-) >> Sorry, Jenn! For myself, let me say that I found your Dom posting to be absolutely fascinating. IMC, I've occasionally used "gypsies", although unfortunately only in the most stereotypical fashion (mysterious gypsy fortune teller - you know). It's delightful to see such a well-thought-out treatise on the subject; I look forward to injecting the Dom into "my" Mystara. Felicitations, Carl Q. PS Dom translates just fine into "British"! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:31:01 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Off Topic: AD&D 3rd Edition or RUNEQUEST? > > That'll be Glorantha of course. The pantheon is so clumsly laid out that > > Divine magic ends up being a bad joke. And I'll tell you that our DM did > > everything he could to run a decent campaign -- and it worked. But he's > > never going to run a RQ campaign again. :( > I had a completely different experience. Having 10 years of experience, I must agree on differing on that. Gloranthan Prospaedia is in it's multitude and mysticism something far better than Mystaran. The worlds are based on different themes, so I don't like comparing them. > Glorantha is probably one of the most well detailed settings around. A bit > weird, but definately good. I dont know exactly what you mean with that > comment on the pantheon. After all there is more than one pantheon. Buying > a few extra books, might be a good idea, although they are next to > impossible to find, unless you speak french. There are pantheons for trolls, sun gods, moon gods, storm gods, sea gods, earth gods... Fun thing on them is the paradoxicality. As in Mystara there is one god for the sun another for elves and so forth; in Glorantha there are plenty of overlapping and contradicting sun gods -- thre are faiths with no gods, gods with no cults, cults with plenty of gods and so forth -- things not meant for mortals to understand. Mystara is not as 'plastic' as Rolemaster's Shadowworld, Glorantha is not as aschetic as Hârnworld. Every world has it's place, and if someone wishes to debate further on Glorantha, I am ready. But not on MML. > > Read: combat. The battles in RQ tend to be always the same: the PCs > > against *one*big*guy*, never a swarm of undead, for instance. When > > there's more than 10 people in a fight, it takes forever. > Yep. A piece of advice; drop the hit location system and give the > characters a few more hit points. Another piece: use storytelling combat. Few dice rolls, lots of description and feeling involved. > Håvard - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:17:17 EST From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes NOTICE (found posted on the Thyatian Imperial Constabulary door, this morning) "Oyez... Oyez..." A certain individual, probably an adventurer whose physical description remains unknown, made away with the entire Thyatian Port Taxes. A reward in the amount of 0.01% of said Port Taxes shall be paid to whomever brave and patriotic enough to seize the nefarious individual in question and bring him, dead or alive and with the said Port Taxes, back to the Imperial Treasurer. In addition to the bounty, two front row seats will be awarded as well to the brave and patriotic citizen, for the disembowelment, beheading, crucifixion, or immolation of the nefarious individual, following his or her eventual resurrection so he or she may be submitted to the aforementioned punishments regardless of any prior death! Let it be known! :D Bruce Heard - ------------ < Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes (Alternate) The below is based on some stuff already posted by myself or Bruce Heard (I stole his Port Taxes), but not in a systematic way. [...] >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:50:04 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >In a message dated 16/03/99 18:02:01 GMT, you write: > ><< On a more personal note, I'm a little chagrined that the *only* response > to this whole post has been about what "Dom" or "Domani" mean in > different languages...sheesh! ;-) >> > >Sorry, Jenn! For myself, let me say that I found your Dom posting to be >absolutely fascinating. IMC, I've occasionally used "gypsies", although >unfortunately only in the most stereotypical fashion (mysterious gypsy fortune >teller - you know). It's delightful to see such a well-thought-out treatise on >the subject; I look forward to injecting the Dom into "my" Mystara. I'll second that! I suspect the lack of comments means everyone's very much satisfied with (or awed into speechlessness by!) the work you've done. Certainly, I'm impressed, and couldn't find anything to nitpick about it. :-) Tying the M-Gypsies into Sindhi culture seems appropriate, given the IRL origins of the Rom as a people. I wonder if Mystaran commoners mistakenly believe the Dom had their roots in Nithia/Ylaruam (since they now know, thanks to recent excavations, that there was SOME big civilization there at one time), in the same way that Europeans long believed the Rom to come from Egypt/the Middle East? As for naming these folks in non-English-speaking campaigns, maybe there's a Sanskrit word-root for "wanderers" or "travelers", that could be used as a basis for the M-Roms' name in other IRL languages. Anybody know the URL of a lexicon for Sanskrit? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 17:33:14 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 The below is a compilation of all the "canon" events of Thyatian history that I could remember/find. If anyone has any others, please let me know. Btw, once again their is a webpage, which some might (or might not) find more interesting, because it includes events up to 1012 AC, the post-1000 events being a synopsis of what occured in my campaign, and thus different in many ways from the official timeline. That page can be found at: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/Timeline.html By the way, regarding the below, if anyone knows of an event that I forgot to include, please let me know. BC 600: Under the preasure of Milenian expansion three related Davanian tribes migrate to Brun, in the region around present-day Thyatis, displacing the Toralai Neathar, subjects of the Nithians. BC 500: Nithia is destroyed by the Immortals. The Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians have conquered and absorbed the natives of the area which will one day become Thyatis. Alphatia enters its first decline. Seafairing Thyatians encounter the Alphatians as they expand into the vaccum left by the vanished Nithians. Thyatians begin raids against Alphatians, who do not reach Brun. BC 200: Alphatians discover that the Altan Tepes Mountains held by the Tribes are rich in gold, and decide to conquer them. BC 192: Alphatian armies invade Brun to conquer the Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians. The Tribes put up a stiff resistance, slaying many Alphatian soldiers and a few Wizards. BC 190: The Tribes prove no match for Alphatia's magic. Alphatia succeeds in conquering the Thyatian region. For two centuries the Tribes will be subjigated by Alphatia, working in mining conditions similar to that of AC 1000 Esterhold. BC 2: Lucinius Trenzantenbium, a Thyatian trained in the Alphatian's magical arts, plots to overthrow the occupiers. Alphatian Wizards in Thyatis are slain and Lucinius declares himself King of Thyatis. War breaks out between Thyatis and Alphatia, eventually spreading to a general revolt against Alphatian rule throughout their despotate. AC 0: Alphatia, ruined by war and bad government, deposes the last Kerothar Emperor and sues for peace. Treaty of Edario signed on Isle of Dawn ends the war. The treaty liberates Thyatis, Ochalea, the Pearl Islands, and the western half of the Isle of Dawn from the Alphatians. Alphatia then turns to crush the other rebellions wracking their Empire. General Zendrolion Tatriokanitas assassinates Lucinius and the Kings of Ochalea and the Pearl Islands and has himself crowned Emperor of Thyatis. AC 1: Thyatis and Alphatia begin to rebuild from the war. Thyatis, under the leadership of Zendrolion and later Valentia, recovers much more quickly and prospers much sooner than Alphatia, which takes 250 years to recover. AC 12: As a barrier to future Alphatian expansionism Thyatis founds a trading port in Norwold on the site of present-day Alpha. AC 15: Alphatian northmen mercenaries attack and destroy the trading port of Cape Alpha. AC 20: Emperor Zendrolion dies and is succeeded by his wife, Valentia. Zendrolion's empire was controled by force and seems likely to collapse now that he is dead. Emperess Valentia makes her Citizens' Proclamation. She also liberates Ochalea and the Pearl Islands, then invites them to re-join the Empire under the terms of her Proclamation. They accept. Valentia is known as "the Justiciar" from this point forward. AC 20-313: The Bright Age of Thyatis. In the centuries after Valentia the Empire expanded and worked to make reality of her promises. Arts and learning flourished, Thyatis City became a cosmopolitan merchantile center, and the security of the Empire was assured. Thyatian rulers support theological and philosophical inquiry, resulting strong clerical orders which help defend the Empire from Alphatian expansionism. AC 150: Thyatis colonizes south eastern Ylaruam. AC 250: Alphatia conquers northeastern Ylaruam. AC 313: Civil War in Thyatis as the Hattians revolt against Thyatis. Emperor Alexian II repells their assault on The City, then subdues Hattias, tearing down its walls in punishment. AC 500: Thyatian and Alphatian colonies in Alaysia begin to clash. These battles go on intermitantly for over three centuries. AC 571: Thyatis builds prisons on the Islands of Ierendi and initiats several penal colonies for hardened criminals. In need of funds and resources to face the Alphatian menace, Thyatis conquers the Ierendi Islands and seizes the shipbuilding facilities there. Halflings resort to piracy in response, find they enjoy rapine and looting, and continue their tradition of reaving down to the present day. AC 600: Penal colonists in Ierendi revolt and drives Thyatis from the isles. AC 650: The Storm Soldiers hate society takes root in Hattias and starts growing. The sect forms autonomous clans hiding in the hills of Hattias, in the south at first and gradually further north. The group is manipulated by Thanatos to hate all non-Thyatians. AC 700: Warfair between Thyatis and Alphatia intensifies in the region of Ylaruam. AC 728: Alphatia launches its "Final Offensive" against the Thyatian colonies in Ylaruam. Though this assault is repulsed with heavy casualties, later Alphatian revisionists and propagandists will attempt to portray this as a victory that drove Thyatis from Ylaruam. In fact, the skirmishing goes on for another century. AC 788: The Alphatian wizard Halzunthram conquers the Flaems on behalf of Alphatia. AC 827: Suleiman al-Kalim's forces drive the Alphatians out of Ylaruam. AC 828: Forces of the desert brigand Suleiman al-Kalim drives the Thyatians out of Ctesiphon and Cubia. A Thyatian, Lord Alexander Glantri, captures Halzunthram and liberates the Flaems from Alphatia. The population names the land Glantri in his honor. AC 830: Ylari forces take Tamerokikas from Thyatis. The Alaysians of Tel Akbir remain loyal to the Empire and reject al-Kalim's cult of personality. AC 900: Thyatis absorbs Traladara, garrisoning the main town which is re-named Specularuam, but leaves the Traladarans and their traditional leaders to run their own day to day affairs. The city of Oceansend is founded in Norwold by Thyatians, and Emperor Gabronius IV initiates a wave of colonization to the western shores of the Gulf of Hule. Most of the colonists are derived from the Ispan ethnic group of Kerendas. Their colonies become known as the Savage Baronies because of their fractious nature. AC 948: The Emperor grants approval to the plan of several priests of Vanya to emigrate from Hattias with their followers and conquer a region of their own. AC 950: Priests of Vanya leave Hattias and land in the Heldann Freeholds, south of Haldisvall. The ruling Haldis clan is defeated and the knights capture their capital city and its vicinity. AC 959: A trade dispute causes Tylion IV, Emperor of Alphatia, to declare war on Thyatis, launching a "spike assault" against the Empire. Thyatian Decline becomes evident. AC 960: The Alphatian Spike Assault reaches Thyatis City. An Alphatian strike force enters the city, reaching the palace to kill Emperor Gabrionus V. They murder most of his family with the exception of his young daughter, Gabriela. Thincol the Brave, a famous gladiator, leads a counter attack which rescues Gabriela and drives the Alphatians from the city. Gabriela marries Thincol, who is crowned Emperor. Oceansend decides to become independent. The Emperor does not oppose this. AC 962: Alphatian occupation forces driven from Thyatian areas of the Isle of Dawn. With the 2nd Alphatian Decline now evident, Tylion IV is deposed and replaced by his daughter Edriana. AC 970: Stefan Karameikos trades his birthright, the Duchy of Machetos to Thincol in exchange for the dominion of Traladara which he will rule as an autonimous Grand Duchy of the Empire. Stefan imediately renames Traladara for himself and replaces native rulers with his own cronies and distant relatives, precipitating a revolt against him almost immediately. That revolt is crushed, and Stefan assumes control over the area. AC 985: Savage Baronies assume roughly their current borders, with 9 fairly stable but disputatious states in existance. Edriana initiates an Alphatian conquest of Norwold. AC 988: Thincol begins a Thyatian invasion of the northern coast of Davania, which becomes known as the Hinterlands. AC 1000: An Alphatian plot to assassinate Emperor Thincol on the Thyatian Millennium is foiled by a band of heros. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:06:58 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Taxes > > NOTICE (found posted on the Thyatian Imperial Constabulary door, this morning) > > "Oyez... Oyez..." > Oh, that reminds me, though: I've got to include information on how the Treasury officials (or, more precisely, the Treasury Goon Squad, aka "Treasury Guard") ferrets out fraud, theft of tax recipts, and other such things. But I'm too sleepy after scripting timelines and government synopsis to do that today. I'll think about that tommorrow. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:45:26 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom In a message dated 99-03-16 18:02:37 EST, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << I wonder if Mystaran commoners mistakenly believe the Dom had their roots in Nithia/Ylaruam (since they now know, thanks to recent excavations, that there was SOME big civilization there at one time), in the same way that Europeans long believed the Rom to come from Egypt/the Middle East? >> IMC the Darine did, in fact, originate in Nithia, as they did apparently IYC, as well... after all, the Darine/Dom originated with the Traldar, and the Traldar were, in fact, originally from Nithia... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 20:34:34 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 > The below is a compilation of all the "canon" events of Thyatian >history that I could remember/find. If anyone has any others, please let me >know. Well, there's a small part that Darius Glantri -- a Thyatian ancestor of Alexander -- played, in the DL novels' events. He was a griffon-rider serving Emperor Cornelius in the first decade of the 6th century, and he evidently married Solveig White-Gold ... who (despite using a Northern Reaches name while adventuring) was actually the adopted daughter of a Thyatian noble house, as well as the old Flaemish Highlands' first Chancellor. So both these characters might deserve a mention, as Thyatians of historic importance in Glantri if not their homeland. While Thyatis was peripheral to much of the DL novels' storyline, the Thyatians did consider attacking Alphatia after the dragons' assaults on Norwold and Alphatian ports had weakened their great rival. The Dragonlord, as the individual charged with controling renegade dragons throughout the continent, also had a friendly diplomatic relationship with Thyatis. The emergence of wererats, and establishment of their vast community in the Thyatis City sewers, was a notable event on the timeline of PC4. Mrikitat the wererat Immortal -- the first of his kind, and a protege of Vanya -- had a mortal career as a notorious Thyatian thief, in his human guise. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:40:02 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >In Alphatia, at least in mainland Alphatia, that shouldn't work. Norwold, >then again, is not that detailed leaving GM quite free hands. > Well, we refer to CM1 as 'the Norworld GAZ', cause is a *huge* module with tons of info on Norworld... maybe the DotE wasn't enough. >That is probably greater single army gathering than Roman Empire ever got >together! If the thyatians were formed in three-file phalanxes, they >would need 10km wide battlefield to spread in one line. > Well, actually do you recall the geography of the Alpha Bay? I don't see why couldn't these legions storm the citadel formed in one line (God forbid!). >Guinness is f**ng expensive in here, too. But then again, bottle of >drinkable red wine (.75l) costs around $10 here. We Finns sure know how >to make taxation profitable. > You remind me of one stunt our evil DM pulled once! He made some crazed Aran [is this naming thing settled now?] mage impersonate *me* and took control of my barony... and he also dared to ban the beer!!! Aaaaaaaaaarrg that sure made me angry. Anyway I managed to blow this freak away --literally, with the aid of three barrels of some gnomish black powder... I think they call it boompowder. Bungo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:34:23 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: [MYSTARA] - First characters >>Man, you sure know how to write! :D x1000. But my name is Bungo >>Cervezarrubia. ;-) BTW, 'Cervezarrubia' means in Spanish literally 'blonde >>beer', or ale/lager, as opposed to a bitter like Guinness [why it's so >>difficult & expensive to have a Guinness here? it's just not fair!] > > >Heh. Ah well. > >As it sez on the posters, St Patricks day is coming up, leaving 364 practice >days :) > Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was actually my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first character? Bungo Cervezarrubia. aka Carlos Yoder *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:43:46 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >If I gamemastered Alphatian characters, I would *feed* them Player's >Guide to Alphatia. Alas, I do so in Glantri, so I had to make around >10-15 pages (small font) of summary of how things work in Glantri. > BTW, does every character in a Glantrian campaign has to be a magic user? > >But, once again I say that Alphatian laws vary greatly as you go farther >from Sundsvall and the mainland. On mainland, f.ex., all nobility is >restricted to magic-users (incl. Avengers and clerics and whatever), but >the colonies have their own ways. Ericall himself is (IIRC) not a magic >user, That's right. He's the dumb son of Eriadna and one stallion whose name I don't recall. Basically, she sent his not-so-apt kid to rule a land so far away that no one cared for -- except the thyatian neighbours. >colonies. Another thing is that Norwold is a melting pot of Thyatian, >Alphatian and Heldannic settlers, which makes a difference also. And don't forget the Republic of Leeha and all the hin who live there! Bungo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:47:06 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >When I played CM1 (as DM) I made Ericall quite generous with his nobles. >With a so big country, many rulers would be needed. Most were only Barons >or Viscounts, keeping other titles for the most trusted vassals. IMC, you >would have been promoted after a useful (to Ericall) deed. The biggest >problem would have been demostrating the importance of your actions to the >king (wich can be difficult, when you are very far from the court). > To be frank, I (my character) doesn't want to mess around with those courts and stuff, I just want to go to my hole when I feel like and smoke my pipe and invite my comrades to share one of our 7 daily customary meals. So if this viscount thing keeps getting bigger, I think I'll drop the issue flat. Bungo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 02:38:14 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules > Nation: Alphatia > Government Type: MED (Magically Elivated Dictatorship). > Founding Document: Melian Dialogue. ;-) Great idea!!!!!! The Melian dialogue is my favorite text on politics (along with Machiavelus). Have you thought of writing a Mystara Melian Dialogue? A RW scholar re-wrote some pieces of Thucidides History during the cold War, just exchanging Pericles with Kennedy and Espartan Kings with Kruschev (spelling???). I wonder who would be the Melians (Thyatis was quite an empire, not a defenseless colony), but, in other respects your association is wonderful (even to an Alphatia lover like myself). Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:56:32 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Prologue II Hope this one goes through... "Hi Vhaletessa, how are you doing? Me, I'm...HEY YOU! Yeah, you anonymous person who brought this chest to Honor Island! I'm talking to you! Stop reading this instant! I told you not to snoop around with other peoples stuff, but no, you had to be a sneak! Well, that's just plain rude! "Oh, maybe there is a good explaination. Maybe, your year is something like BC 300, and there is no Honor Island yet, and you're not a moulder dwarf or something like that, and can't live forever. Gee whiz,(as my chak friends would say) that is a problem. Hmmm...I know. Keep it, as a sort of family heirloom, passed down through the ages, until you reach an appropriate generation to undertake the decidedly uneventful (I hope, I mean, I, uhh...know! Yes, I KNOW, without a doubt, 100% sure, that the trip will be safe) journey to Honor Island. Trust me, your descendant will be amply rewarded, and your family name will live on...well, not quite forever, but pretty close. Okay? NOW STOP READING! "Hmm...now where were we? Ah, yes...Vhaletessa, I am here to warn you of a great threat to our world. Greater than any I have ever seen, and I can't even identify it. You may never see me again. Even as we speak (well, not really speak, but as I write this to you), forces I can hardly recognize are tracking me down. For the past three months (my absolute time, that is), I have been chased across the Multiverse, and beyond, even through time. I am presently in a place called Averoinge, on a planet not altogether unlike our own. I couldn't help but suspect some connection between this Averoinge and Nouvelle Averoigne of Glantri...oh wait, you've already been here. yes, well, it's Laterre, although the inhabitants call it something different entirely (imagine that). The local year is AD 1321, but I shall be gone soon. "I have seen Immortals, yes Immortals, tracking me down; I have seen reptilian monstrosities, things That Should Not Be (yes V., a trite cliched, but I couldn't resist) sniffing for my blood; I have seen hideous abominations of what I can only classify as golems, but golems unlike any I have ever created, (now watch for my poetic ability!) of whose likeness is made of both the mortal flesh and the base metals of the Earth (good, huh?). I do not believe them to be acting in concert, but all three seem to desire nothing more than my utter destruction. Rather unhospitible of them. I can't even understand why. I mean, I hardly saw a thing. "Saw what, you say? Oh yes, that. Well, do you remember Lesliuke? Yes, that little gnomish chap who had the habit of re-arranging furniture? I remember one time we were waiting in the Golden Khan's yurt, and he started to...but I digress. Anyway, we were zooming around in one of those Serraini aero-machines, this being about six months ago, when he said he do a quadruple roll while climbing, and then stop on a dime. I said he couldn't. He said he could. I said he couldn't. He said he could. And so it went, until we hit a mountain somwhere over the Heldanners because he wasn't paying attention. We just barely managed to escape the wreck, and jumped into a hole in the ground. After a good deal of sliding, we came to a tunnel complex. I don't mean to bore you with the details, but there were quite a few traps, all of which had Les squealing with delight at their ingenuity, and me fuming at my twisted thumb (now, I've suffered quite a few pains in my life, but let me tell you, that has to be one of the worst). We entered into a large chamber, the main focus of which was a dwarf slouched over in a throne covered with diamonds. It was a Modriswerg who had committed suicide, (poor fellow, hung himself upside down) but not before apprently torching the entire complex. Everything was destroyed. Everything, that is, except for a most curious device. I simply can't explain what it looked like beyond an unusually shaped and coloured egg. "It seemed to be in perfect working order, and Les acted like...like, umm..., well, like a gnome with a new machine, I guess. He managed to convince me to help him take it out of the cave (no small feat, as it must have been roughly six metres in diametre), and back to his workshop in Serraine (no small feat, as Serraine was now somewhere over Renardy). Well, needless to say, we got it back in one piece, even though I kept telling him, 'You can't mess with moulder gear, Les!', 'It's always cursed, Les.', 'You're going to get yourself into a lot of toruble, and I'm not bailing you out this time, Les.', and 'Stop eating all of the haggis, Les! I went to a lot of trouble to get that from Klantyre!' ...I'm sure you get the point. You know Les. "So three months go by, and Les spends all of his time working on this and convinces me (to this day, I don't know how he does it) to aid him with some of the magical underpinnings. I was inside, staring at this crystal, set in front of a chair (dwarf-size, so decidedly uncomfortable to your archetypical lanky, tall mage). Now, I don't know what happened next, but I was looking deeply into this crystal, and the next moment, the egg started to shake, and I heard loud noises from outside. I stepped out to see what the problem was, and that was when I lost my cool. "The land was desolate, just dust, as far as the eye could see. Completely flat, and devoid of vegetation and animals. Utterly lifeless. The sky had a sickly greenish hue to it, and odd ripples permeated across the horizon. Even the wind was still. I coughed a bit, and wondered what had made the noise I had heard. It only took a minute for me to find out. "A deep rumble came out of the sky, and I crooked my head upward to see what it was. A gigantic ...builing, not unlike Serriane, but much more orderly, much more...consistent in it's design, zoomed above me. Wires, spries, and transcluscent domes spotted the bottom. Well, I thought, here's some intelligent life; if they can build flying cities, then they must have magic, and should thus be favorably inclined to such a mage as myself. So, I teleported aboard the building. "Or tried to, anyway. The spell failed. Now, I had a clear bead on the place I wanted to teleport to, and I haven't failed that spell for a long time. So I tried to scry to building with a couple of spells. "None of them worked either. Now, at this point, I began to get a little suspicious, and not quite a bit worried. I tried a few more miscellanous castings. Not a single one worked. That's when the nausea hit. I felt tired and ill, and could literally feel myself being drained of energy. I picked out a wand of fireballs, and let a few loose. A spark came out of it, and then fizzled. Later, (back in Serraine, and yes, I know it ruins suspense, but this is important) I would discover that it was no longer magical. I used a few more trinkets, and came to the realization that all of my magic was being drained, and at a rather quick rate; whatever was eating it was hungry. "Now, at this point, I decided that I had had enough exploration for the day, and hastened back inside the Moulder Egg, as Les had taken to calling it. Before I could close the door, though I caught a glimpse of four human-like beings. They were about 20 metres away, and didn't look too friendly. They were those golems I mentioned earlier: partly human, or humanoid bodies, I wasn't too sure, but covered with wires and plates and metal coverings. They all looked about the same, so I assume the same mage made them. They raised glass-looking tubes towards me. After a few mage duels, you quickly learn that when someone points something at you, it's not a good thing. I closed the door, and felt a thud hit the side of the ME. "Just as I wasn't sure how I got to that wasteland in the first place, I wasn't sure how I got back to Serraine. The ME shook like the first time, and when I catiously opened the hatch, Les was hopping up and down, grinning like a mad-gnome (he does that about seven times a day, and I've even caught him doing it in his sleep). 'So, how'd ya like it? Was it good, huh? Was it? Was it? Hah ha ha ha ha ha!' He was bouncing like a zzonga-adict in withdrawal. "'How did I like it? I nearly got killed, and all of my magic's gone! What was that place?" "'Killed, hm? That's downright odd. I guess one can't trust future folk.'" "Well, it turned out that our good friend, Mister Modriswerg, decided that he would build a time machine. Yes, a time machine! I've always felt that such ideas are for the birds, but Les assured me that the fantasy phyics principles were sound. However, the ME only worked with one time. It seems that it was hard-wired to go to a point some time in the future. Les hadn't been able to figure out exactly when, but he told me that he had seen a similar relic in gnomish hands before. I wanted to know why it was hard-wired, and Les explained that, with these devices, each point in time had to be calculated entirely in one's head using arcane mathematics, and required over four decades per temporal destination. Add the requiste time to build such a machine, and you have the culmination of a very long life. "I was shaken by the encounter, and I went to rest, to regain both my strength and my spells. The next morning, I went downstairs to see what Les was up to. He had a frown on his face, and it was then that I noticed the damage. Near the door, where the golems' wands had hit, the skin of the ME was pocketed with craters and cracks. Les glumly pronounced the ME dead (I was rather chipper about it's lack of use, given what I had seen on the other side) with a sigh. But he was about to perk up. "It seems that, sometime during the night, our mutual friend Les received a package. Inside was a lovely full-length mirror, made from pure gold, and had an unearthly quality of workmanship to the glass. Gnomes aren't exactly reknown for their vanity (which is good, as they have little to be vain about), but Les decided that he might be able to use it in one of his next meddlesome inventions, and took it down to his workshop. "As Les was performing the post-mortem on the ME, a crackle of energy filled the air, and before any one could respond, blasts of fire came screaming through the room. Les and I are both accomplished adventurers, and we knew how to rumble. Marching through the mirror came a small squad of those cursed golems (although, given their strength, I could make a killing selling them in any, and I mean ANY, magiocracy...if I knew how to make them, that is), firing away with their wands. My magic had returned, but given all of the volatile equipment Les had lying around, I couldn't use any of the really heavy stuff; no problem, as I was rated top-shot with magic missile back in my freshman year. Les activated some defense systems he had been working on (as an aside: I don't think blowing up everything in a three metre radius counts as 'defense'), and joined in the fray. The two of us aren't slugs, but those golems were powerful, and it might have been bad if it weren't for Obistecix (do you remember her? The sphinx that nearly sat on you in Esterhold?), who picked that time to show up for an appointment; Les has been making a nice bundle after having perfected that automatic hair-cutting machine. With her aid, the invaders were defeated, and Les' house was saved for another day. Les and I set about to investigate what crawled through the mirror. "I quickly determined that whatever magic powered the golems and their weapons had left, as I could detect no magic on them.They looked even worse close-up: their flesh was lumpy and ill-shapen, and the metal that oozed over their skin was decidedly unnatural. It was Les, however, who made the really shocking discovery. "'I've seen that before.' "'Seen what?' I asked. "'That mirror. I've seen that exact same sort of mirror before, on some of our adventures, in places.' "He was right. It wasn't exactly an eye-catcher, but when you think about it, you can recall seeing it in certain places, usually in, say, royal bedrooms (don't ask how I know). Something evil was afoot. "We left Les' house the next day; if they had already found us there, they would be certain to strike again. Ever since, we've been on the run. I had to split up with Les in Blackmoor (you've never stayed at the Comeback Inn, so you wouldn't understand; it's a story for another time). I don't know why Immortals and their agents are so interested in what I saw, or where these lizard-things are following me, but I see them, usually out of the corner of my eye. It's getting harder and harder to stay ahead of the competition. "Which is why I've sent you this. Vhaletessa, the wizards of the future (who, I am not sorry to say, I never saw, as if their creations are any measure by which their looks can be judged...) are powerful indeed, and, while I have found little proof of widespread infestation, I have seen these golems disguised in various forms; I saw one a month ago looking exactly like King Hord of Ostland. I killed it, and as far as I know, the current (so to speak) Hord is the real one, but be wary. I suspect an invasion of some sort is under way. I'm trying to return home, possibly in a guise so that I can fool all of my hunters, but V.: I know you, and the Honor Islanders, are powerful. Investigate this, and see what defenses you can raise. I hope that this message finds you. Do not trust anyone." -Locutio Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #130 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 131 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Re: [MYSTARA] - Melian Dialogue: Eureka! Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora I ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:05:51 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters At 10:34 PM 3/16/99 -0300, you wrote: >Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was actually >my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're >beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. >Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first >character? > What I do alot, is whenever I run across a new game world is imagine what I would do if I ever wound up there. Well either me, or someone very much like me. :) Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:54:54 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Hmm, this is the third time I've tried to get back on; perhaps I left the server in a bad mood. :) Well, I'm back (I hope) and while I have been gone for awhile (believe me, it couldn't be helped), I haven't been unproductive, so, as an appeasment of sorts, I am posting all of my work via vis the Oard, my favorite villians (and I have done my best not to make them Borg). Since I have a bit, I'm posting the prologue first, then, after I make sure it works this time, I'll send an article on the politics of the Sphere of time, and then, a gazeteer of sorts of FixedTime, also known as Happy Oard-Land. Any and all feedback is welcome. "Now, you must be wondering why this chest is in your living room, or impressed in your field...No wait, I shouldn't use impressed, you might not know that word, then again, you might not even be literate, or sentient, in which case, why am I talking to you? Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, but this is a rather chancy prospect at best, and I've got a lot on my mind. But anyway, back to what I was saying: You must be curious as to what all this junk is. Well, it's probably best that you don't know. Maintain credible deniability and all that. What I know can't hurt you, or something like that. Well, I assume that the current year, not that that has any meaning for me right now, not that 'now' has much meaning either, but I digress. So, I hope that your year is roughly somewhere around 1000 AC as the Thyatians measure it (if you're Alphatian by any chance, I greatly apologize; to make up for it, let me give you some important advice: learn to swim. Hah!), give or take maybe...umm, let's see...carry the three, divide by pi...(this would go a lot faster if Lesliuke's Fantastically Advanced & Amazingly Proficient Case of Wondrous Auto-Manipulating Numerical Machinations 6000 (R), patent pending, worked worth a goblin's eyes! 'It's missing two, nine, and addition!' I said. 'That's a value-added feature,' he said. But I digress)...six years! Hmph. Well, there you have it, the current year should be between 994 and 1006. I'm mostly sure that I got Mystara, and reasonably certain that you're somewhere in Eastern Brun...I think. "Okay! Thanks for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate it. You don't realize this yet, but you are involved as we speak in an epic adventure/quest/crusade/thing to save the world as we know it. Here's what you need to do: In the case, you should find 500 pieces of pure gold; I don't know where you are, but this should pass as money where ever you are, and/or are going. Take this money, hire a nice caravan, not too ostentatious, some decent guards (stay away from the Otto Bros. Shipping Emporium; I had a nasty arbitration with them once, or will, depending on when you get this) and take this chest (and EVERYTHING in it) to Ierendi, a small archipelago south of Darokin, pleasant waves, good fruit, nice holidays...ah, for those good old days...Anyway, there's an island there, called Honor Island. All the natives will know where it is, you can't miss it, it's usually spouting fire or something like that. There's a boat that carries provisions to the island; get on it, go to the docks, and talk to whoever looks like they're in charge. Give said In-Charge Person the chest, and tell him/her/it to give this chest to: (and this is important; practice saying the name a couple of times to get it right) Vhaletessa. Vhaletessa. One more time, Vhaletessa. She's a druid there (or will be; if it's really early, leave it there for her to get when she arrives, or gets born, whichever happens first). Once you do that, you'll be amply rewarded. Did I say amply? I meant luxuriously. We're talking obscene amounts of wealth. Trust me. "One more thing: (at this point, imagine that I'm speaking in a very deep, very sinister, very powerful voice) I am the am insanely powerful Mage of Mages, Locutio, Master of More Dimensions Than You Can Count, Destroyer of Entire Realities (no, wait, scratch that, it sounds evil, and I really am a good guy)...anyway, DON'T READ OR TOUCH A SINGLE THING IN THIS CHEST! I see all, I know all, and beware, beware! For a great and terrible reckoning shall befall you if you do not heed this warning. If you do heed this warning on the other hand (or tentacle; no offense, but I was kind of hoping for a humanoid-type thing...oh well, c'est la vie, as Gar..., I mean R..., I mean d'Ambrevile used to say), you shall be amply rewarded; see above. "Thank you for your co-operation." Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:07:26 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > Great idea!!!!!! > Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. 8-) > The Melian dialogue is my favorite text on politics (along with > Machiavelus). Have you thought of writing a Mystara Melian Dialogue? > I just wrote a rough draft of it (very faithful to the original, since it was enscribed and posted, on the MMB, because someone asked about it.) I'll post that below. > I wonder who would be the Melians (Thyatis was quite an > empire, not a defenseless colony), > I made the Melians a Thonian survival colony on Belissaria, at least for the rough draft. While I was writting it I gave some thought to having it be a dialogue between a group of Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians in the 2nd century BC (pre-Thyatian Empire, during the first Alphatian invasion), but I wanted it to take place earlier in Alphatian history. Thus it pre-shadows some future events (like the emergence of a rival empire. . .) and some others (like the fact that Mystarans are mostly content, like normal amoral nations, to let Alphatia advance where it will and not take action. I.E. Karameikos during the Wrath war comes to mind). Anyhow, the below is a rough draft version, and I'd be greatful for any suggested improvements, modifications, and the like: Shortly following the invasion of Bellissaria the Alphatians encountered the Melians. Most of the other small communities of Bellissaria submitted or fled without much fuss. The Melians are a colony of the Thonians [Sparta] that would not submit to the Alphatians [Athenians] like the other islanders, and at first remained neutral. But upon the Alphatians using violence and plundering their territory, the Melians assumed an attitude of open hostility towards the Alphatians. The Melians sent a couple of envoys to negotiate with the Alphatian generals, upon which the Alphatians spoke as follows: Alphatians: "Since the negotiations are not to go on before the people of Melos, in order that we may not be able to speak without interuption, and deceive the ears of the multitude by selective arguments which would pass without refutation (for we know that this is the meaning of our being brought before the few), what if you who sit there were to pursue a method more cautious still! Make no set speech yourselves, but question whatever we say that you do not like, and settle that before going any farther [in other words, a dialogue]. And first tell us if this proposition of ours suits you." The Melian commissioners answered: Melians: "To the fairness of instructing each other as you propose we do not object; but your military preparations show you are not here to talk, as we see you are come to be judges in your own cause, and that all we can reasponably expect from this negotiation is war, if we prove to have right on our side and refuse to submit, or if we surrender, then enslavement by you." {from now on the Alphatian/Athenians will be designated by "A", the Melians by "M"} A: "If you have met to reason about presentiments of the future, or for anything else other than than to discuss the safety of your state upon the facts that you see before you [the Alphatian army], we will cease talking; otherwise, we will go on." M: "It is natural and excusable for men in our position to turn more ways than one both in thought and utterance. However, the question in this conference is, as you say, the safety of our country, and the discussion, if you please, can proceed in the way which you propose." A: "For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses -- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Yaniffey, or that we are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us. We will not make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did us no wrong, will aim at what is feasable, arguing the real interests of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." M: "We think it is expedient -- we speak as we are obliged, since you enjoin us discuss moral right alone and want us to talk only of interest -- that you should not destroy what is our common protection, namely the privilege of being allowed when in danger to invoke what is fair and right, and even to profit by arguments that are not strictly valid if they can be persuasive. And you are as much interested in this as any, as your Empire's fall would be a signal for the heaviest vengeance and an example for the world to meditate upon." A: "The end of our empire, if end it should, does not frighten us. The possibility of a rival empire is not worse than the likelyhood of the vanquished subjects who would revolt and overpower us, their rulers, if we showed weakness. This, however, is a risk that we are content to take. We will now proceed to show you that we have come here in the interest of our empire, and that we shall say what we are going to say, for the preservation of your country; as we would desire to excersise that empire over you without trouble, and see you are preserved for the good of us both." M: "And how, pray, coud it turn out as good for us to serve you as for you to rule us?" A: "Because you would have the advantage of submitting before suffering the worst, and we should gain slaves by not destroying you." M: "So you would not consent to our being neutral, friends instead of enemies, even your allies?" A: "No; for your hostility cannot hurt us much while your friendship in a state of independence will be an argument to our subjects of our weakness, and your enmity of our power will inspire them to revolt." M: "Is that your subjects' idea of equity, to put those who have nothing to do with you in the same category with people that are mostly your own colonists and conquered slaves?" A: "As far as right goes they think anyone has as much of it as the other, and that if any maintain their independence from us it can only be that they are strong enough to do so, and that if we do not molest them it is because we are afraid; so that besides extending our empire we should gain in security by your subjection; the fact that you are Mystarans and weaker than us rendering it all the more important that you should not succeed in thwarting the masters of Air magic in gaining anything they desire." M: "But do you see that there is no security in the policy which you indicate? For here again if you bar us from talking about justive and invite us to obey your interest, we must also explain ours, and try to persuade you, that our interest and yours are the same. How can you avoid making enemies of all existing neutral peoples who shall look at our cause and conclude from it that one day or another you will attack them? And what is this but to make greater the enemies that you have already, and to force others to become so who would otherwise never have opposed you?" A: "Why, the fact is that the distant Mystarans generally give us little to fear; the liberty which they enjoy will prevent them from taking precautions against us; it is rather nearby Bellissarian islanders such as yourselves, outside our empire, and subjects smarting under our yoke, who would be the most likelt to take a rash step and lead themselves and us into obvious danger by opposing us." M: "Well then, if you risk so much to retain your empire, and your subjects would prefer to be free of it, it would surely be great baseness and cowardice in us who are still free not to try everything that can be tried before submitting to your yoke." A: "Not if you are smart and realize that the contest is not equal, with honor as the prize and shame as the penalty, but in fact a question of self-preservation and not resisting those who are far stronger than you are." M: "But we know that the fortune of war is sometimes more impartial than the disproportion of numbers might lead one to suppose; to submit is to give ourselves over to despair, while action still preserves for us a hupe that we may stand on our feet rather than serve on our knees." A: "Hope comforts the brave, and it may be indulged in by those who have abundant resources, if not without lose, at all events without ruin; but its nature is to be extravagant, and those who go so far as to stake their all upon hope see its worthlessness only when they are ruined; but so long as they never face the test that would enable them to guard against it, hope springs eternal. Don't this be the case with you, who are weak and hang on a single turn of the scale; nor be like the vulgar, who, abandoning such security as human means may still afford, when visible hopes fail them in extremity, turn to the invisible, to prophets and clerics, and other such inventions that delude men as they march to their own destruction." M: "You may be sure that we are as well aware as you of the difficulty of contending against your power and magic, unless the terms be equal. But we trust that the Immortals may grant us fortune as good as yours, since we are just men fighting against the unjust, and that what we lack in power will be made up by the alliance of the Mystaran nations, who are bound, if only for very shame, to come to the aid of their kindred. Our confidence, therefore, after all is not so utterly irrational." A: "When you speak of the favor of the Immortals, we may as fairly hope for that as yourselves; neither of our pretentions nor our conduct being in any way contrary to what men believe of the Immortals, or practice among themselves. Of the Immortals we believe, and of men we know, that by a necessary law of their nature they rule wherever they can. And it is not as if we were the first to make this law, or to act upon it when made: we found it existing before us, and shall leave it to exist forever; all we do is to make use of it, knowing that you and everybody else, if they had the same power as we have, would do the same as we do. Thus, as far as the Immortals are concerned, we have no fear and no reason to fear that we shall be at a disadvantage. But then we come to your notion about the Mystaran nations, which leads you to believe that shamw will make them help you, here we bless your simplicity but do not envy your folly. The Mystarans, when their own intersts or their nation's survival are in question, are the worthiest barbarians alive; of their conduct towards others much might be said, but no clearer idea of it could be given than by shortly saying that of all the men we know they are the most conspicuous in considering what is agreeable to them honorable and what is expedient just. Such a way of thinking does not promise much for the safety which you now unreasonably count upon. M: "But it is for this very reason that we now trust to their respect for expediency to prevent them from betraying us, their compatriots, and thereby helping you, their enemies, in conquering Mystara." A: "Then you do not adopt the view that expediency goes with security, while justice and honor cannot be followed without danger; and danger the Mystaran nations generally court as little as possible." M: "But we believe that they should be more likely to face even danger for our sake, and with more confidence than if they had to face your armies in their own lands; And our common Mystaran origin insures our fidelity." A: "Yes, but what an intending ally trusts to is not the goodwill of those who ask for his aid, but a decided superiority of power for action; and the Mystarans look upon us and see that we are stronger. Now, is it likely that while we are masters of magic they will cross over the sea to help you?" M: "But they would have numbers to send, and would overwhelm you." A: "Some diversion of the kind you speak of you may one day experience, only to learn, as others have done, that the Alphatians never once yet withdrew from a battle for fear of any. But we are struck by the fact, that after saying you would consult for the safety of your country, in all this discussion you have mentioned nothing which men might trust to be saved by. Your strongest arguments depend upon hope, moral justice, and future danger to us, and your own resources are too scanty as compared to ours for you to resist us. You will therefore show great blindness of judgement, unless, after allowing us to retire, you can find some councel more prudent than this. If you are well advised, you will not think it disgraceful to submit to the greatest Empire, when it makes you the moderate offer of becoming its living slaves, still living in the land you love; nor, when you have the choice given you between death and slavery, will you be so blinded as to choose the worst. Think over the matter therefore after our discussion, and reflect once and again thatit is for your country that you are consulting, that you have not more than one, and that upon this one deliberation depends its survival or ruin." (Adapted from "The Landmark Thucydides," pp.351-356 edited by Robert B. Strassler.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:16:08 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Hmm, this is the third time I've tried to get back on; perhaps I left the server in a bad mood. :) Well, I'm back (I hope) and while I have been gone for awhile (believe me, it couldn't be helped), I haven't been unproductive, so, as an appeasment of sorts, I am posting all of my work via vis the Oard, my favorite villians (and I have done my best not to make them Borg). Since I have a bit, I'm posting the prologue first, then, after I make sure it works this time, I'll send an article on the politics of the Sphere of time, and then, a gazeteer of sorts of FixedTime, also known as Happy Oard-Land. Any and all feedback is welcome. "Now, you must be wondering why this chest is in your living room, or impressed in your field...No wait, I shouldn't use impressed, you might not know that word, then again, you might not even be literate, or sentient, in which case, why am I talking to you? Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, but this is a rather chancy prospect at best, and I've got a lot on my mind. But anyway, back to what I was saying: You must be curious as to what all this junk is. Well, it's probably best that you don't know. Maintain credible deniability and all that. What I know can't hurt you, or something like that. Well, I assume that the current year, not that that has any meaning for me right now, not that 'now' has much meaning either, but I digress. So, I hope that your year is roughly somewhere around 1000 AC as the Thyatians measure it (if you're Alphatian by any chance, I greatly apologize; to make up for it, let me give you some important advice: learn to swim. Hah!), give or take maybe...umm, let's see...carry the three, divide by pi...(this would go a lot faster if Lesliuke's Fantastically Advanced & Amazingly Proficient Case of Wondrous Auto-Manipulating Numerical Machinations 6000 (R), patent pending, worked worth a goblin's eyes! 'It's missing two, nine, and addition!' I said. 'That's a value-added feature,' he said. But I digress)...six years! Hmph. Well, there you have it, the current year should be between 994 and 1006. I'm mostly sure that I got Mystara, and reasonably certain that you're somewhere in Eastern Brun...I think. "Okay! Thanks for taking the time to read this. I really appreciate it. You don't realize this yet, but you are involved as we speak in an epic adventure/quest/crusade/thing to save the world as we know it. Here's what you need to do: In the case, you should find 500 pieces of pure gold; I don't know where you are, but this should pass as money where ever you are, and/or are going. Take this money, hire a nice caravan, not too ostentatious, some decent guards (stay away from the Otto Bros. Shipping Emporium; I had a nasty arbitration with them once, or will, depending on when you get this) and take this chest (and EVERYTHING in it) to Ierendi, a small archipelago south of Darokin, pleasant waves, good fruit, nice holidays...ah, for those good old days...Anyway, there's an island there, called Honor Island. All the natives will know where it is, you can't miss it, it's usually spouting fire or something like that. There's a boat that carries provisions to the island; get on it, go to the docks, and talk to whoever looks like they're in charge. Give said In-Charge Person the chest, and tell him/her/it to give this chest to: (and this is important; practice saying the name a couple of times to get it right) Vhaletessa. Vhaletessa. One more time, Vhaletessa. She's a druid there (or will be; if it's really early, leave it there for her to get when she arrives, or gets born, whichever happens first). Once you do that, you'll be amply rewarded. Did I say amply? I meant luxuriously. We're talking obscene amounts of wealth. Trust me. "One more thing: (at this point, imagine that I'm speaking in a very deep, very sinister, very powerful voice) I am the am insanely powerful Mage of Mages, Locutio, Master of More Dimensions Than You Can Count, Destroyer of Entire Realities (no, wait, scratch that, it sounds evil, and I really am a good guy)...anyway, DON'T READ OR TOUCH A SINGLE THING IN THIS CHEST! I see all, I know all, and beware, beware! For a great and terrible reckoning shall befall you if you do not heed this warning. If you do heed this warning on the other hand (or tentacle; no offense, but I was kind of hoping for a humanoid-type thing...oh well, c'est la vie, as Gar..., I mean R..., I mean d'Ambrevile used to say), you shall be amply rewarded; see above. "Thank you for your co-operation." Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:43:49 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Great to see you back, Nicholas! And an excellent read, as always! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:54:39 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >I suspect the lack of comments means everyone's very >much satisfied with (or awed into speechlessness by!) the work you've done. >Certainly, I'm impressed, and couldn't find anything to nitpick about it. >:-) You are FAR too kind, Sharon...but I'll accept that! 8-)~~ >Tying the M-Gypsies into Sindhi culture seems appropriate, given the IRL >origins of the Rom as a people. I wonder if Mystaran commoners mistakenly >believe the Dom had their roots in Nithia/Ylaruam (since they now know, >thanks to recent excavations, that there was SOME big civilization there at >one time), in the same way that Europeans long believed the Rom to come >from Egypt/the Middle East? That would be a fairly common explanation, I'd imagaine. As Mystaros wrote, they *were* originally Traldar (i.e. Nithian); but, on the other hand, they have all but forgotten their early history, up to the years in Sind, so there would be no memory of Nithia. It's a possibility, now that I think about it, that they came directly *from* Nithia, rather than from the Traldar lands, and later just assumed they were Traldar. Hmmm...(uh-oh, there she goes again!) :-) >As for naming these folks in non-English-speaking campaigns, maybe there's >a Sanskrit word-root for "wanderers" or "travelers", that could be used as >a basis for the M-Roms' name in other IRL languages. Anybody know the URL >of a lexicon for Sanskrit? I don't know, but that's an excellent idea! (Why don't I think of such things?) ;-) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 19:57:37 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >Sorry, Jenn! For myself, let me say that I found your Dom posting to be >absolutely fascinating. Thanks! :-) >IMC, I've occasionally used "gypsies", although >unfortunately only in the most stereotypical fashion (mysterious gypsy fortune >teller - you know). That counts! Actually, in my research on the Rom, I found that the "fortune tellers" would only do so for gadji (non-Rom), in exchange for goods or information...I think this makes an excellent adventure hook! (I think I forgot that part in the article--oops!:) >PS Dom translates just fine into "British"! ;-) :-)) Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 22:59:34 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis Timeline to AC 1000 > > Well, there's a small part that Darius Glantri -- a Thyatian ancestor of > Alexander -- played, in the DL novels' events. > Thanks for the info. I haven't read that series and so I wasn't familiar with that but I'll try and incorporate the info. I'll probably have to try and locate the novels. > > The emergence of wererats, and establishment of their vast community in the > Thyatis City sewers, was a notable event on the timeline of PC4. > Unfortunately that (and the one describing Sea Creatures) is a source I don't have, one of few I lack (but wouldn't you know it, both currently are immortant to some of my endevours. *mutters discontentedly*). Anyhow, if it isn't too much trouble could someone provide me with relivant dates and events regarding that? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 21:42:43 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Thanks, but I know you're just saying that because I'm going to make the Dom the Defenders of Time (how could I not after reading such a moving historical essay?). On a related note, does anyone have any favorite heroes (preferably who didn't obtain immortality) that they would like to see involved in some of these temporal hijinks? "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:40:28 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Melian Dialogue: Eureka! > > I wonder who would be the Melians (Thyatis was quite an > empire, not a defenseless colony). > I've got it! The Nuari/Pearl Islanders will play the role of the Melians, in philosophical dialogue with the Alphatians on the eve of the initial Alphatian conquest of their islands. Nuari are perfect. Re-write with improvements to make the Dialogue more "Mystaran" in character, with the Nuari and Alphatians as the protagonists. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:35:17 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles > BTW, does every character in a Glantrian campaign has to be a magic user? No, but in my one yes. Clerics are highly illegal until ****ac, fighters and thieves necessarily wouldn't wish to stay in Glantri for life. The mysteries and plotlines are designed for elves and mages, or trasonous clerics. > >colonies. Another thing is that Norwold is a melting pot of Thyatian, > >Alphatian and Heldannic settlers, which makes a difference also. > And don't forget the Republic of Leeha and all the hin who live there! We only count white free men here. :) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:01:34 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters > Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was actually > my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're > beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. > Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first > character? Actually, my first char was the test-fighter in the D&D Basic Player's Book, which isn't the best example of role-playing IMO, though a good intro to game mechanics. I can't even remember when I first made up a truly original char but I have never played myself. I wonder how that would look - STR 3, INT 17, CHR 4-7, DEX 6 or so, CON ???, WIS ??? - pretty gosh-darn pathetic. Then again, being short might have helped me appreciate dwarves and halflings more :) - - Mischa Gelman Pittsburgh, PA, USA, World The astronomical evidence leads to a biblical view of the creation of the world - astrophysicist Robert Jastrow *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:09:48 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora I As a preface to this document, and indeed, all others dealing with Oard, I should mention that when I initially visualizing and creating this information, I did not have a copy of Chronomancer (in fact, I don't think that supplement existed when I first began thinking these concepts). I did however posses a copy of Transdimensional Turtles, a supplement for TMNT and other Palladium systems (which I liked, and recommend as material for anyone who can find a copy). I don't think that it matters too much anyway, as I'm not dealing with the game mechanics of traveling through time, but instead more with the world setting of time travel in Mystara (and, in any event, I use OD&D, so Chronomancer technically isn't applicable :), and as Oard use technological, not magical means, they probably would need somewhat different rules). Once I got Chronomancer, I tried updating anything that looked wrong, but I might not have caught it all. If anyone sees anything that grossly violates canon, please post and I'll see if I can rethink the concept. Politica Tempora Introduction Virtually no mortal has the slightest idea of what the Oard are, their intentions, or where they come from. Those who have accidentally encountered them invariably mistake their mundane sciences for novel applications of existing magic, those that survive that is. As mentioned in both the prologue and CM6 Where Chaos Reigns, only with close inspection would a mage recognize Oard technology as anything other than magical, and would likely dismiss most of what they would normally encounter as "third-rate Karameikan U. shop work; I mean, a glove of magic missiles that doesn't even always hit?!?". When one considers the near-total lack of chronomancy on Mystara, as well as the fact that the Immortals of Time have no interest in letting a mage go to the Oard's home time, it is understandable that the most any mage knows is nothing more than the rare existence of a flesh-metal golem (a few mages have created a magical look-alike, but it is nothing like the original); those that learn any more have their memories erased by agents from the Sphere of Time. What may not be obvious is that most Immortals are oblivious to the danger that the Oard pose. Khronous has gone out of his way to ensure that only Immortals of Time deal with Oard, and uses his position as ranking member of the Council of Intrusions to prevent other spheres from learning about the Oard race. He believes that if the Oard were common knowledge amongst his Immortal peers, that many would go instantly go off on a quest to destroy them, and he believes that that course of action may prove the most deadly of possibilities. Khronous is biding his time until he knows enough to stop the Oard menace. Temporal Colours Inside the Sphere of Time Whenever dealing with near-omnipotent entities and their relationships, politics becomes a subject of immense importance, particularly so in Mystara's Multiverse. Unlike the Powers that rule other dimensions, such as Planescape's cosmology, Immortals are not grouped together based on moral or ethical stances (with the possible exception of Entropy, which does tend toward, but as I play, not necessarily reach evil), but instead fit in a tenuous claim of a similar "Grand Interest." While one can assume any Power from Baator is both lawful and evil, one cannot make any such assumption with regard to any sphere (again, see statement about Entropy above). At most, one can simply state that Time tends towards neutrality, and has no tendency towards either good or evil. Furthermore, the Powers are often the physical and spiritual manifestation of some particular ethos, and thus are extremely unlikely to change alignment, whereas most Immortals were once mortal and keep the same freedom to choose their beliefs; most Immortals started on the quest for immortality because, and this is one reason among many, but an important one, they didn't want to die. This lack of ethical banding, and the ability to make new moral choices like mortals help to prevent easy grouping of Immortals inside one sphere. It is possible, however, to make some generalizations about the Immortals of Time. They do have a similar "Grand Interest", but more importantly, they all became Immortal the same way. As a result, most Immortals of Time posses the following characteristics: - They are extremely patient. The Task for the dynast must last at least twenty (!) years. The next longest requirement listed for any path is ten years for the polymath, which doesn't count as much as the polymath will not remember a good deal of that time. Furthermore, that is the time the nation must last; the preparation time to build such a mighty empire would be an important consideration. As a way to cheat death, the dynast isn't all that attractive. - - They are excellent managers and strategists. To carve out a realm of at least 50,000 people in a world filled with so many would-be rulers of All They Purvey requires a good deal of planning and work. As the country needs to last for a long time, the dynast will be involved in all of the elements of empire-building and maintenance. With those four major challenges coming up, the dynasty must be healthy and well-run, and that doesn't just mean that the peasants pay their taxes and you have an army; the dynast must make sure that the economy is up (avoiding irrational exuberance, of course :)), humanoids are down (hostile ones, anyway), and all of your neighbors at least tolerate you. In short, King Stefan would be a great candidate for dynast (after what he's survived, I'm hard-pressed to call him just lucky any more). - They think in the long term. Immortals of Time understand the importance of planning for the future, and take the time (no pun intended) to consider the ramifications of whatever action they are about to undertake. Their Quest and Trial grind this philosophy into them; by helping their descendants in the far future, they see the effects of today on tomorrow. - They tend towards neutrality (see next chapter) and have an affinity for water. What the water implies about their personality, I don't know. Good swimmers? - Although this may be different in your campaign, there are far fewer official Immortals of Time than any other sphere; this may lead to these Immortals being cliquish, reclusive, and/or haughty, regarding themselves as above all the "common" spheres. On the other hand, since there are so few Immortals of Time to hang out with (all the more so as Protius is decidedly anti-social, al-Kalim and Vanya seem to have one-track minds, and Khronous is very, very busy and very, very stressed, see later), perhaps the Immortals of Time must become more cosmopolitan in their outlook and associate with the other spheres more than usual. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #131 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 132 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II [MYSTARA] - First characters RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:12:21 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II Guilt By Association Political Parties of the Gods Like mortals, Immortals have disagreements over the best way to approach any situation, and often form groups to best lobby for a particular philosophy or belief. It is no different inside the Sphere of Time, but the questions the Masters of Eternity discuss are far removed from what a Ethengar diplomat would debate with a Rockhome merchant. The burning question for the Immortals of Time is what to do with the time continuum: should Mystara's timeline be free from any temporal meddling, even that used to fix paradoxes that erupt from mortal time-traveling? If temporal "manipulation" is allowed, how much and when? Should the Sphere of Time use it powers to gain some sort of advantage against the other spheres? These and more are the problems that Time's philosophers argue over, and have formed groups to press for one solution or another. Amalgamated Confederation of Neo-Anti-Re-Establishmentarians, Incarnation IX Partyline: Anarchist Political Punks Policy: Mix-and-Match any paradox from any time-traveler Known Members: None Quote: "And that is why, my freedom-loving friend, that we shall triumph over the forces of the unthinking...hey, is that thing on? I told you, no clairaudience crystal balls! This interview is over!" Synopsis: The ACNAREI-Nine is an outcast organization from the halls of Entrem. Advocating a vague philosophy that whatever happens to the timestream is fine by them, the ACNAREI-Nine Manifesto of Grand Thought and Benevolence is constantly being amended to support whatever inconsequential cause de jour the group decided to espouse that week. They do not believe that it is anyone's place to prevent tampering with the timestream, a view the more verbose defend by invoking fate ("If it's meant to change, it's meant to change), the less eloquent seconding with a cry, "C'mon, it'll be fun!" As an outlaw group (more as a result that they decided they'd look cooler if they were underground), no Immortal officially claims membership. At this time, they wield no real power in the Sphere. Blade of Cycles Partyline: Secret Defense Policy: Protect the multiverse from Oard Known Members: Khronous (head), Ordanna, Protius, Thanatos, Verthandi (until top secret recon mission left her missing), Yav Quote: "I have no knowledge of any such mission, and I am certain that if I did, I would not be at liberty to discuss said mission." Synopsis: The Blade of Cycles is unknown to all Immortals except those who are in it. It is covered extensively in the next chapter. The Clockworkery Partyline: Bureaucratic Operations Policy: To keep time running, watch for chronomantic intrusions, support the Sphere's power Known Members: All Immortals of Time, Khronous (head) Quote: "Time waits for no man, but she does linger on a few Immortals." Synopsis: The Clockworkery is the bureaucratic government of the Sphere of Time. Everyone in the Sphere plays some role in ensuring the Sphere runs properly and that time proceeds as it should. It is not a political party as such, but any party wishing to advance its cause would do well to occupy high positions here. Khronous has the final say on any position or policy, but he is by nature a thoughtful and democratic man, and he has quite a bit on his mind. As a result, it may be possible for a faction that he does not agree with to gain control of the Sphere's activities, but so long as he felt the Sphere was not in dire danger of being run completely into the ground, he would bide his time, as he has quite a bit. The Crest Partyline: Reactionary Policy: To prevent and remove all interference in the Mystaran timeline, from all sources Known Members: Sharpcrest the Squid-Slayer (head) Quote: "They have taken away not just our land, our sea, our children, and our lives, but our very history!" Synopsis: It is a little known fact that the Mystaran timeline as it exists now actually contains several paradoxes at key points, points that have dramatically changed the development of Mystara and its races. Some of these paradoxes are naturally occurring (as much as the more orderly Immortals, especially from Matter, would hate to admit, nature does occasionally really mess up), others have been placed by the Oard as a key to taking over Mystaran time, and others have been created by careless chronomancers, either from Mystara or aliens. While history tends to smooth out these distortions, some are too large to go away, and become ingrained into Mystara history, producing both good and ill effects. The Crest agrees with the Lasting Season (see below) in that new paradoxes should be avoided, but goes further, calling for the removal of the "ingrained" paradoxes so to speak. Sharpcrest investigated these paradoxes, and discovered that one prevented the shark-kin from a pre-eminent position in Mystara, and in fact is contributing to that species' current decline. A few minor Time Immortals believe that their petitioners lives could be improved by such a radical change (for some, such as the shark-kin, it could hardly get worse). Although the Crest doesn't have nearly enough support to push for such an idea, it is possible that they could start to form an alliance, and they have been aggressive in seeking out Immortal candidates. Enlightened Pendulum Partyline: Liberal Policy: Permit chronomancy, minor mortal editing of the timestream Known Members: Al Kalim (more conservative in nature, but this is where Protius is, and so...), Kalla of the Seven Veils (head), Petra, Protius (more by association, and really hates the way Kalim keeps following him) Quote: "Time is a canvas, let all paint what they might." Synopsis: The Pendulum believes that mortals and the timestream is not as bad a mix as many in the Sphere would believe. While the Pendulum avoids the extremism of the ACNAREI-Nines, they feel that mortals should be allowed extensive use of chronomancy, even going so far as to allow minor (by Immortal standards) editing of history, all subject to Immortal review, of course. The incident where the Alphatian chronomancers were annihilated could have been avoided they argue: Time certainly has the resources to make certain times off limits, such as the technological Blackmoor (the Comeback Inn is fine, and has been for a long time, which the Pendulum uses as evidence for their cause), the days of the Carnivex (which has been a problem, see later), and possibly certain Nithian eras. The Enlightened Pendulum, along with the Lasting Season, dominates Time politics, and most Time Immortals belong to one or the other. Normally Khronous leans slightly in this direction, but the stress and paranoia of dealing with the Oard invasion has left him to slide to a more protective, conservative point of view. Hammer of the Epoch Partyline: Nationalistic Fervor, with quasi-Fascist leanings Policy: To use Immortal chronomancy to seize control of non-Prime worlds and planes Known Members: Taroyas (acting head), Vanya (titular head, toned profile down due to an Immortal investigation of the death of the Thyatian Emperor, Immortal media calling it Thincolgate) Quote: "It is not to be thus, but to be safely thus." Synopsis: Believing in the pre-eminence of the Sphere of Time, and recognizing that its control of chronomancy gives it an unbelievable advantage, members of the Hammer call for using the awesome powers at their disposal to take over non-Prime worlds (so as not to attract the notice of Immortal observers) and their attendant planes, until Time is powerful enough to start taking over Prime locations. While the Hammer of the Epoch is officially interested in increasing the dominance of the Sphere, virtually all of the members are concerned with a slightly smaller focus: themselves. In spite of the extreme views espoused (or perhaps due to them), the Hammer strikes a chord with many of the Immortals of Time (remember that they were at one point all heads of major states), and may come to be a major player in time. Lasting Season Partyline: Conservative Policy: Restrict chronomancy, prevent all editing except where desperately needed Known Members: Calithia Starbrow, Ordana (head), Vanya (recently more active), Yav Quote: "... (A)ny Immortal who isn't a Lasting Season by the time they're a temporal has no brain." Synopsis: Primarily opposed to the Enlightened Pendulum (but in a competitive and professional way), the Season feels that mortal interference, or even unnecessary presence in the timestream is disruptive to history. The Season tends to invoke fate, but in a much different fashion than the ACNAREI-Nines do, proclaiming it the Sphere's duty to enforce the natural timestream. They do not support, however, the removal of paradoxes and interference once they have been so established in the timestream removal would cause more disruption than benefit (in opposition to the Crest), but instead seek to prevent such an occurrence in the first place. Tidal Age Partyline: Utopia Policy: Selective editing of timestream by Immortals to create a utopia for all races Known Members: Chardastes (head), Liena, Verthandi (not currently, but she wrote the original document) Quote: "We have within our grasp the potential to create the perfect world!" Synopsis: Discounted as a group of hopeless dreamers ungrounded in the harsh reality of life, the Age nonetheless continues, despite the absence of the honorary founder, Verthandi (the Tidal Age did not exist before she disappeared, but her essay on the matter is the founding document for the Age). Recently, they have begun performing research that seems to indicate that they may have some basis in reality after all: limited experiments in select parts of a planet far from Mystara show promising signs of fruition, despite interference by a few Entropic Immortals. Whether the experiment succeeds, and whether that will be enough to convince the other Immortals of Time to proceed with such a plan, is up in the air. The Age often finds companionship with both the Hammer of the Epoch (which is using them as an excuse to set up their "utopia") and the ACNAREI-Nines (who support just about any and all causes). Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 05:15:09 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - First characters Hi Mystarans ... >Actually, my first char was the test-fighter in the D&D Basic Player's Book, which isn't the best example of role-playing IMO, though a good intro to game mechanics. I can't even remember when I first made up a truly original char but I have never played myself. I wonder how that would look - STR 3, INT 17, CHR 4-7, DEX 6 or so, CON ???, WIS ??? - pretty gosh-darn pathetic. Then again, being short might have helped me appreciate dwarves and halflings more :) It can make a "good" wizard : weak, old, awfull but so clever ... My first characters was a strong warrior called Glaivdor ("GoldenSword") who was very strong (18 i think) but as inteligent as a cow ... Nevertheless he spent his life to run after goblins and Kobold near Highforge ... and died after having insulted a red Dragon (a little one) ... First time i played AD&D it was an half elf that where so good with his bow that most of the time the fight was off before the first missile was hurled ... She miraculously survives all the fight ... Friendly, Marcus à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund //www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:18:39 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters My first character was the cleric from the Basic Set (yup the standard character). He's now retired (after reaching a 'meager' level 5) and has his own inn (Thorvack's Inn) in Threshold. My second character (which I used at the same time as Thorvack the Cleric) was a halfling (Giganti Greenapple, fighter) which I rolled myself. So that was my first real character. Since then (it's about ten years ago that I played my first adventure) I mainly played halflings (fighters, thiefs). He liked beer and adventures (and runs his own brewery together with a friend (Wishlash, fighter) in Kelvin. Kristian Kramer Bungo wrote: > Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first > character? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:40:31 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Nope, that would do fine. And RL names would suffice of course (I must make them just a little different). Kristian Jenn wrote: > Oh, my! ;-) Well, anything you think is appropriate will do, of course, > but they were based on RL Rom/Romani/"gypsies"...So, you can call them a > variation on the RL names, or make up one that isn't quite so insulting! > Or, you can call them by the nation name, Domani (if *that's* not a bad > thing too!:) > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:43:37 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Wow! Slow down! It was excellent and I can fit it in, not right now. But later on in my campaign (when the players are somewhat more involved in the story), I can certainly use it! So don't worry about which name means what. Thanks for your contribution to the list! Kristian Kramer Jenn wrote (a bit dissapointed): > Aack! :-) Okay, y'all, I wrote it in English, and picked names that are > only a slight variation on the originals (IRL)...I understand that many > of you might not be too happy with those names, because it does not fit > well with the language in which you play. So change them! I have no > problem with that whatsoever. > > On a more personal note, I'm a little chagrined that the *only* response > to this whole post has been about what "Dom" or "Domani" mean in > different languages...sheesh! ;-) > > Jenn > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 06:25:26 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II Guilt By Association Political Parties of the Gods Like mortals, Immortals have disagreements over the best way to approach any situation, and often form groups to best lobby for a particular philosophy or belief. It is no different inside the Sphere of Time, but the questions the Masters of Eternity discuss are far removed from what a Ethengar diplomat would debate with a Rockhome merchant. The burning question for the Immortals of Time is what to do with the time continuum: should Mystara's timeline be free from any temporal meddling, even that used to fix paradoxes that erupt from mortal time-traveling? If temporal "manipulation" is allowed, how much and when? Should the Sphere of Time use it powers to gain some sort of advantage against the other spheres? These and more are the problems that Time's philosophers argue over, and have formed groups to press for one solution or another. Amalgamated Confederation of Neo-Anti-Re-Establishmentarians, Incarnation IX Partyline: Anarchist Political Punks Policy: Mix-and-Match any paradox from any time-traveler Known Members: None Quote: "And that is why, my freedom-loving friend, that we shall triumph over the forces of the unthinking...hey, is that thing on? I told you, no clairaudience crystal balls! This interview is over!" Synopsis: The ACNAREI-Nine is an outcast organization from the halls of Entrem. Advocating a vague philosophy that whatever happens to the timestream is fine by them, the ACNAREI-Nine Manifesto of Grand Thought and Benevolence is constantly being amended to support whatever inconsequential cause de jour the group decided to espouse that week. They do not believe that it is anyone's place to prevent tampering with the timestream, a view the more verbose defend by invoking fate ("If it's meant to change, it's meant to change), the less eloquent seconding with a cry, "C'mon, it'll be fun!" As an outlaw group (more as a result that they decided they'd look cooler if they were underground), no Immortal officially claims membership. At this time, they wield no real power in the Sphere. Blade of Cycles Partyline: Secret Defense Policy: Protect the multiverse from Oard Known Members: Khronous (head), Ordanna, Protius, Thanatos, Verthandi (until top secret recon mission left her missing), Yav Quote: "I have no knowledge of any such mission, and I am certain that if I did, I would not be at liberty to discuss said mission." Synopsis: The Blade of Cycles is unknown to all Immortals except those who are in it. It is covered extensively in the next chapter. The Clockworkery Partyline: Bureaucratic Operations Policy: To keep time running, watch for chronomantic intrusions, support the Sphere's power Known Members: All Immortals of Time, Khronous (head) Quote: "Time waits for no man, but she does linger on a few Immortals." Synopsis: The Clockworkery is the bureaucratic government of the Sphere of Time. Everyone in the Sphere plays some role in ensuring the Sphere runs properly and that time proceeds as it should. It is not a political party as such, but any party wishing to advance its cause would do well to occupy high positions here. Khronous has the final say on any position or policy, but he is by nature a thoughtful and democratic man, and he has quite a bit on his mind. As a result, it may be possible for a faction that he does not agree with to gain control of the Sphere's activities, but so long as he felt the Sphere was not in dire danger of being run completely into the ground, he would bide his time, as he has quite a bit. The Crest Partyline: Reactionary Policy: To prevent and remove all interference in the Mystaran timeline, from all sources Known Members: Sharpcrest the Squid-Slayer (head) Quote: "They have taken away not just our land, our sea, our children, and our lives, but our very history!" Synopsis: It is a little known fact that the Mystaran timeline as it exists now actually contains several paradoxes at key points, points that have dramatically changed the development of Mystara and its races. Some of these paradoxes are naturally occurring (as much as the more orderly Immortals, especially from Matter, would hate to admit, nature does occasionally really mess up), others have been placed by the Oard as a key to taking over Mystaran time, and others have been created by careless chronomancers, either from Mystara or aliens. While history tends to smooth out these distortions, some are too large to go away, and become ingrained into Mystara history, producing both good and ill effects. The Crest agrees with the Lasting Season (see below) in that new paradoxes should be avoided, but goes further, calling for the removal of the "ingrained" paradoxes so to speak. Sharpcrest investigated these paradoxes, and discovered that one prevented the shark-kin from a pre-eminent position in Mystara, and in fact is contributing to that species' current decline. A few minor Time Immortals believe that their petitioners lives could be improved by such a radical change (for some, such as the shark-kin, it could hardly get worse). Although the Crest doesn't have nearly enough support to push for such an idea, it is possible that they could start to form an alliance, and they have been aggressive in seeking out Immortal candidates. Enlightened Pendulum Partyline: Liberal Policy: Permit chronomancy, minor mortal editing of the timestream Known Members: Al Kalim (more conservative in nature, but this is where Protius is, and so...), Kalla of the Seven Veils (head), Petra, Protius (more by association, and really hates the way Kalim keeps following him) Quote: "Time is a canvas, let all paint what they might." Synopsis: The Pendulum believes that mortals and the timestream is not as bad a mix as many in the Sphere would believe. While the Pendulum avoids the extremism of the ACNAREI-Nines, they feel that mortals should be allowed extensive use of chronomancy, even going so far as to allow minor (by Immortal standards) editing of history, all subject to Immortal review, of course. The incident where the Alphatian chronomancers were annihilated could have been avoided they argue: Time certainly has the resources to make certain times off limits, such as the technological Blackmoor (the Comeback Inn is fine, and has been for a long time, which the Pendulum uses as evidence for their cause), the days of the Carnivex (which has been a problem, see later), and possibly certain Nithian eras. The Enlightened Pendulum, along with the Lasting Season, dominates Time politics, and most Time Immortals belong to one or the other. Normally Khronous leans slightly in this direction, but the stress and paranoia of dealing with the Oard invasion has left him to slide to a more protective, conservative point of view. Hammer of the Epoch Partyline: Nationalistic Fervor, with quasi-Fascist leanings Policy: To use Immortal chronomancy to seize control of non-Prime worlds and planes Known Members: Taroyas (acting head), Vanya (titular head, toned profile down due to an Immortal investigation of the death of the Thyatian Emperor, Immortal media calling it Thincolgate) Quote: "It is not to be thus, but to be safely thus." Synopsis: Believing in the pre-eminence of the Sphere of Time, and recognizing that its control of chronomancy gives it an unbelievable advantage, members of the Hammer call for using the awesome powers at their disposal to take over non-Prime worlds (so as not to attract the notice of Immortal observers) and their attendant planes, until Time is powerful enough to start taking over Prime locations. While the Hammer of the Epoch is officially interested in increasing the dominance of the Sphere, virtually all of the members are concerned with a slightly smaller focus: themselves. In spite of the extreme views espoused (or perhaps due to them), the Hammer strikes a chord with many of the Immortals of Time (remember that they were at one point all heads of major states), and may come to be a major player in time. Lasting Season Partyline: Conservative Policy: Restrict chronomancy, prevent all editing except where desperately needed Known Members: Calithia Starbrow, Ordana (head), Vanya (recently more active), Yav Quote: "... (A)ny Immortal who isn't a Lasting Season by the time they're a temporal has no brain." Synopsis: Primarily opposed to the Enlightened Pendulum (but in a competitive and professional way), the Season feels that mortal interference, or even unnecessary presence in the timestream is disruptive to history. The Season tends to invoke fate, but in a much different fashion than the ACNAREI-Nines do, proclaiming it the Sphere's duty to enforce the natural timestream. They do not support, however, the removal of paradoxes and interference once they have been so established in the timestream removal would cause more disruption than benefit (in opposition to the Crest), but instead seek to prevent such an occurrence in the first place. Tidal Age Partyline: Utopia Policy: Selective editing of timestream by Immortals to create a utopia for all races Known Members: Chardastes (head), Liena, Verthandi (not currently, but she wrote the original document) Quote: "We have within our grasp the potential to create the perfect world!" Synopsis: Discounted as a group of hopeless dreamers ungrounded in the harsh reality of life, the Age nonetheless continues, despite the absence of the honorary founder, Verthandi (the Tidal Age did not exist before she disappeared, but her essay on the matter is the founding document for the Age). Recently, they have begun performing research that seems to indicate that they may have some basis in reality after all: limited experiments in select parts of a planet far from Mystara show promising signs of fruition, despite interference by a few Entropic Immortals. Whether the experiment succeeds, and whether that will be enough to convince the other Immortals of Time to proceed with such a plan, is up in the air. The Age often finds companionship with both the Hammer of the Epoch (which is using them as an excuse to set up their "utopia") and the ACNAREI-Nines (who support just about any and all causes). Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:15:29 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... hi Mystarans ... I've been away for more a month and just back ... Pleased to see such animation here :^) I've seen many things on oards and time travell ... Aren't oards destroyed at the end of CM8 ? I thought they were ... I'll get soon X10 ( it must arrive next week), what will i find inside exept a "board game" ? When X4 & X5 should be set ? Is the Master realy dead at the end of X5 or does he survive ? For those who are interested (and understand French) i've just finished a new class and a part of the bestiary of my adaptation of the "Lone Wolf Series" to D&D (hum OD&D) ... I'll translate it one days to English ... It lies at : //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 thanks for comments and consulting ... :^) Have a good day, Marcus Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund //www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 07:18:36 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora II Guilt By Association Political Parties of the Gods Like mortals, Immortals have disagreements over the best way to approach any situation, and often form groups to best lobby for a particular philosophy or belief. It is no different inside the Sphere of Time, but the questions the Masters of Eternity discuss are far removed from what a Ethengar diplomat would debate with a Rockhome merchant. The burning question for the Immortals of Time is what to do with the time continuum: should Mystara's timeline be free from any temporal meddling, even that used to fix paradoxes that erupt from mortal time-traveling? If temporal "manipulation" is allowed, how much and when? Should the Sphere of Time use it powers to gain some sort of advantage against the other spheres? These and more are the problems that Time's philosophers argue over, and have formed groups to press for one solution or another. Amalgamated Confederation of Neo-Anti-Re-Establishmentarians, Incarnation IX Partyline: Anarchist Political Punks Policy: Mix-and-Match any paradox from any time-traveler Known Members: None Quote: "And that is why, my freedom-loving friend, that we shall triumph over the forces of the unthinking...hey, is that thing on? I told you, no clairaudience crystal balls! This interview is over!" Synopsis: The ACNAREI-Nine is an outcast organization from the halls of Entrem. Advocating a vague philosophy that whatever happens to the timestream is fine by them, the ACNAREI-Nine Manifesto of Grand Thought and Benevolence is constantly being amended to support whatever inconsequential cause de jour the group decided to espouse that week. They do not believe that it is anyone's place to prevent tampering with the timestream, a view the more verbose defend by invoking fate ("If it's meant to change, it's meant to change), the less eloquent seconding with a cry, "C'mon, it'll be fun!" As an outlaw group (more as a result that they decided they'd look cooler if they were underground), no Immortal officially claims membership. At this time, they wield no real power in the Sphere. Blade of Cycles Partyline: Secret Defense Policy: Protect the multiverse from Oard Known Members: Khronous (head), Ordanna, Protius, Thanatos, Verthandi (until top secret recon mission left her missing), Yav Quote: "I have no knowledge of any such mission, and I am certain that if I did, I would not be at liberty to discuss said mission." Synopsis: The Blade of Cycles is unknown to all Immortals except those who are in it. It is covered extensively in the next chapter. The Clockworkery Partyline: Bureaucratic Operations Policy: To keep time running, watch for chronomantic intrusions, support the Sphere's power Known Members: All Immortals of Time, Khronous (head) Quote: "Time waits for no man, but she does linger on a few Immortals." Synopsis: The Clockworkery is the bureaucratic government of the Sphere of Time. Everyone in the Sphere plays some role in ensuring the Sphere runs properly and that time proceeds as it should. It is not a political party as such, but any party wishing to advance its cause would do well to occupy high positions here. Khronous has the final say on any position or policy, but he is by nature a thoughtful and democratic man, and he has quite a bit on his mind. As a result, it may be possible for a faction that he does not agree with to gain control of the Sphere's activities, but so long as he felt the Sphere was not in dire danger of being run completely into the ground, he would bide his time, as he has quite a bit. The Crest Partyline: Reactionary Policy: To prevent and remove all interference in the Mystaran timeline, from all sources Known Members: Sharpcrest the Squid-Slayer (head) Quote: "They have taken away not just our land, our sea, our children, and our lives, but our very history!" Synopsis: It is a little known fact that the Mystaran timeline as it exists now actually contains several paradoxes at key points, points that have dramatically changed the development of Mystara and its races. Some of these paradoxes are naturally occurring (as much as the more orderly Immortals, especially from Matter, would hate to admit, nature does occasionally really mess up), others have been placed by the Oard as a key to taking over Mystaran time, and others have been created by careless chronomancers, either from Mystara or aliens. While history tends to smooth out these distortions, some are too large to go away, and become ingrained into Mystara history, producing both good and ill effects. The Crest agrees with the Lasting Season (see below) in that new paradoxes should be avoided, but goes further, calling for the removal of the "ingrained" paradoxes so to speak. Sharpcrest investigated these paradoxes, and discovered that one prevented the shark-kin from a pre-eminent position in Mystara, and in fact is contributing to that species' current decline. A few minor Time Immortals believe that their petitioners lives could be improved by such a radical change (for some, such as the shark-kin, it could hardly get worse). Although the Crest doesn't have nearly enough support to push for such an idea, it is possible that they could start to form an alliance, and they have been aggressive in seeking out Immortal candidates. Enlightened Pendulum Partyline: Liberal Policy: Permit chronomancy, minor mortal editing of the timestream Known Members: Al Kalim (more conservative in nature, but this is where Protius is, and so...), Kalla of the Seven Veils (head), Petra, Protius (more by association, and really hates the way Kalim keeps following him) Quote: "Time is a canvas, let all paint what they might." Synopsis: The Pendulum believes that mortals and the timestream is not as bad a mix as many in the Sphere would believe. While the Pendulum avoids the extremism of the ACNAREI-Nines, they feel that mortals should be allowed extensive use of chronomancy, even going so far as to allow minor (by Immortal standards) editing of history, all subject to Immortal review, of course. The incident where the Alphatian chronomancers were annihilated could have been avoided they argue: Time certainly has the resources to make certain times off limits, such as the technological Blackmoor (the Comeback Inn is fine, and has been for a long time, which the Pendulum uses as evidence for their cause), the days of the Carnivex (which has been a problem, see later), and possibly certain Nithian eras. The Enlightened Pendulum, along with the Lasting Season, dominates Time politics, and most Time Immortals belong to one or the other. Normally Khronous leans slightly in this direction, but the stress and paranoia of dealing with the Oard invasion has left him to slide to a more protective, conservative point of view. Hammer of the Epoch Partyline: Nationalistic Fervor, with quasi-Fascist leanings Policy: To use Immortal chronomancy to seize control of non-Prime worlds and planes Known Members: Taroyas (acting head), Vanya (titular head, toned profile down due to an Immortal investigation of the death of the Thyatian Emperor, Immortal media calling it Thincolgate) Quote: "It is not to be thus, but to be safely thus." Synopsis: Believing in the pre-eminence of the Sphere of Time, and recognizing that its control of chronomancy gives it an unbelievable advantage, members of the Hammer call for using the awesome powers at their disposal to take over non-Prime worlds (so as not to attract the notice of Immortal observers) and their attendant planes, until Time is powerful enough to start taking over Prime locations. While the Hammer of the Epoch is officially interested in increasing the dominance of the Sphere, virtually all of the members are concerned with a slightly smaller focus: themselves. In spite of the extreme views espoused (or perhaps due to them), the Hammer strikes a chord with many of the Immortals of Time (remember that they were at one point all heads of major states), and may come to be a major player in time. Lasting Season Partyline: Conservative Policy: Restrict chronomancy, prevent all editing except where desperately needed Known Members: Calithia Starbrow, Ordana (head), Vanya (recently more active), Yav Quote: "... (A)ny Immortal who isn't a Lasting Season by the time they're a temporal has no brain." Synopsis: Primarily opposed to the Enlightened Pendulum (but in a competitive and professional way), the Season feels that mortal interference, or even unnecessary presence in the timestream is disruptive to history. The Season tends to invoke fate, but in a much different fashion than the ACNAREI-Nines do, proclaiming it the Sphere's duty to enforce the natural timestream. They do not support, however, the removal of paradoxes and interference once they have been so established in the timestream removal would cause more disruption than benefit (in opposition to the Crest), but instead seek to prevent such an occurrence in the first place. Tidal Age Partyline: Utopia Policy: Selective editing of timestream by Immortals to create a utopia for all races Known Members: Chardastes (head), Liena, Verthandi (not currently, but she wrote the original document) Quote: "We have within our grasp the potential to create the perfect world!" Synopsis: Discounted as a group of hopeless dreamers ungrounded in the harsh reality of life, the Age nonetheless continues, despite the absence of the honorary founder, Verthandi (the Tidal Age did not exist before she disappeared, but her essay on the matter is the founding document for the Age). Recently, they have begun performing research that seems to indicate that they may have some basis in reality after all: limited experiments in select parts of a planet far from Mystara show promising signs of fruition, despite interference by a few Entropic Immortals. Whether the experiment succeeds, and whether that will be enough to convince the other Immortals of Time to proceed with such a plan, is up in the air. The Age often finds companionship with both the Hammer of the Epoch (which is using them as an excuse to set up their "utopia") and the ACNAREI-Nines (who support just about any and all causes). Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #132 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 133 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World [MYSTARA] - Histories of Glantrian houses [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:42:57 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Government Capsules >Nation: Hule >Government Type: RA (Religious Autocracy) >Founding Document: Either "the Comming of the Master" or "The Ten >Devotions" or any number of documents and theories. In Hule, its hard to >tell. "The Holy Guide to Deceit", actually. I'm currently committing it to paper, so I know. Pure truth, all of it :) >As usual, there's a webpage: > Why, James, no Kleptocracy anywhere? In MBR you seemed fond of labeling folks that way :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:45:29 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 Mystara FAQ version 6.0 by Hervé Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/mystfaq.txt Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is an epic campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is "wrong, wrong, wrong!" In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard of the Known World, and of the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : "Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :)" So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Inmortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? Powers? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Is Rad gone after Wrath? A: No, he's been absorbed into the Radiance, and some of his life force was used to lessen the drain of the artifact on Mystara's magic (thus there is only a Day of Dread each year, and not a week as in Wrath). Rad is not dead though, but he has been put into a slumbering state to reflect on his deeds (and hopefully change). This is covered in detail in the module Mark of Amber. Q: So is Rad back after Mark of Amber? A: The outcome of the module may vary from campaign to campaign, as the actions of the PCs decide his fate. The module's three outcomes are: 1. He returns as a mortal with no chance of being sponsored back to Immortality and no access to the Radiance (failure); 2. He returns as a mortal but can become an Immortal again sometime (normal success and most likely outcome); 3. He returns as a full Immortal (complete success). Later products avoid the issue, and the general consensus is that he should return but be left in the background, keeping low profile for some time, either rebuilding his following (if an Immortal) or attempting to reach Immortality again (if mortal). Few favor him becoming a mere mortal as most love him as an NPC. Q: Does the Radiance draw from Energy or Entropy after Wrath? A: In Wrath, the Radiance is altered to draw from Entropy instead of Energy. Yet in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, the rules for the Radiance are exactly the same as in Gaz3, stating that it drains from Energy. This is a mistake in K:KoA; the authors overlooked that event in Wrath and forgot to update the info from Gaz3. Thus the new rules for the Radiance are undefined, as are the effects of Entropy-draining. Various suggestion have been made on the MML, though. Q: Where is Teldon? Is he dead? A: This is a short excerpt from Dragon Magazine #207 about Teldon's fate: "One of the attractions of the Magicians' Guild, its location in Karameikos' largest city, was its downfall. Such a collection of powerful (and often egotistical or secretive) mages in one location created great potential for conflict. The final straw was the creation of a mechanical beholder by one of the more advanced apprentices, powered by an Immortal's artifact. The resulting creation was turned loose in downtown Specularum, leveling a good section of the South End. The creation was defeated by the head of the Magicians' Guild, Teldon, but at great cost. Both mage and monster disappeared in a pure white ball of fire, and while they are assumed to have both been destroyed, they may instead have been teleported to some far-off location. The fact remained that the Magicians' Guild proved itself too dangerous to remain in Specularum, and lost one of its most valuable supporters." Q: And Bargle, where is he? A: After the fall of the Black Eagle Barony, Bargle is an itinerant villain that pops up here and there. He can easily be used as a recurring villain who the PCs bump into way too often (to their taste). He has been spotted in various place, including Esterhold and Serraine (always helping te evil guys, of course), but can have business just anywhere you wish. Well, good ole Bargle. Q: Is Kol a Shadow Elf or a Kobold? A: Earlier sources always presented Kol as a kobold who, using the rules from Gaz10, could cast spells. In Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, he is said to be one of the deformed shadowelf babies raised by the humanoids, thus explaining both his high intelligence and spellcasting abilities under the AD&D rules. It is both an interestesting plot, and a disappointement to many, as it removes again the humanoids any glint of chance that they can achieve something by themselves. Many people ignore that sentence in G:KoM (or ignore the box altogether, prefering good old Gaz3), and some love the potential of that plot. As always, use whatever version suits your campaign and your taste best. Q: Also you mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:01:05 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters My first character was called Kong (King) Kylie (that's conch in english, I think); he was an elf that I played for three years, who eventually attained immortality in the sphere of energy. He survived all the way through something like 5 published Expert adventures, 6 Companion and 2 Master. He originally lived in the Empire of the Great Khan on Skothar, but during CM1 (Test of the Warlords), he moved to Norwold, where he survived through his quests for immortality... He went through all kinds of rules supplements we made up, and ended his mortal life as a 36th-level Elven fighter with all kinds of spells and weird abilities, and had numbers for the six senses (five + sixth sense). It was great fun. : ) Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:10:26 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... > I'll get soon X10 ( it must arrive next week), what will i find > inside exept a "board game" ? > When X4 & X5 should be set ? > Is the Master realy dead at the end of X5 or does he survive ? I remember X10 as a great way to get around the Mystaran (then) Known World. The Master, of course, isn't really dead. Actually he can't really die... The PC's run around all over the world as emissaries of Darokin, trying to persuade the rulers of all the different nations to ally with Darokin. Meanwhile the Masters' agents are doing the same thing. The first problem is that the time is set as now (AC 1000), where the GAZ-series set in AC 1200, and Wrath of the Immortals sets it around 1005 (or something). The second is that the countries weren't as fleshed out at the time as they are now, so the descriptions are rather short and sometimes vague. You probably need to work A LOT to update it to the current material. The boardgame part is fun, but very time-consuming, and requires you to keep track of a large number of armies; their personnel, fatigue, etc., but it can be great fun as new armies are introduced in places you naver expected and you set up all kinds of fun battles (Ethengarians vs. Minrothad Guilds ?!?). I loved it; but it took a loong time to get finished... Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:05:36 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Map of the Taymoran Known World On Fri, 12 Mar 1999 Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > It... is... done! Purrty cool :) > Here's the URL for my site: > > www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/1437/index.html > > Lemme know what you all think... Okay, cant wait for more maps and political information. Heck, maybe I'll even start a campaign in Taymora. Well, maybe not anytime soon, but I am looking forward to seeing more of this. BTW, id like to se a map covering the Known World _and_ Norwold. Anyone wanna do that? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:13:32 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - Histories of Glantrian houses Hi to all, I just got G:KoM in my hands and found that there were couple of things that I didn't know before. Most of all there was said that the elven principality was founded only in AC 859, next year from Light of Rad decision. In light of that revelation I have written second versions from my histories of the Houses of Ritterburg, Alhambra and Ellerovyn, and send them for your pleasure. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:29:31 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 1 History of House Ritterburg, version 2 Origins The von Drachenfels are an old Hattian family. Their roots lie deep in Hattian history and even further back to the time of Blackmoor, even though it is difficult to retrace their bloodline that much behind in the mists of time. The oldest record in their history book tells how they took part in the revolt of AC 313 as one of the three noble families which led the Hattians against the Thyatians. Forced to emigrate once the revolt was crushed by the Imperial cohorts, the von Drachenfels fled to the Alasiyan colonies, where they lay down for years. During the following centuries they earned the respect and trust of many other Hattian families living in exile and finally led them to Glantri in the eighth century, when the opportunity arose to claim those lands for their own. The Migration Our story really begins after the leader of the family, Heinrich von Drachenfels, fell in a skirmish against Alasiyan nomads in AC 719. His 22 year old son Otto succeeded him as leader of the Hattians. Otto soon realised that the ongoing war against Alphatians and Alasiyans was a lost battle, because the empire did not support its colonies enough. He began to look for a way out of the situation. In AC 728 rumours about the rich and sparsely populated lands behind the mountains in the Flaemish Highlands attracted Otto's attention and he began to plan his followers' migration. The Battle of Hedjazi, where Thyatian forces were decimated by Alaysians, forced Otto to act swiftly and gave him a good opportunity to present his migration plan to other leaders. He immediately contacted some of the surviving leaders of the Thyatian colonies, Graf Hans von Graustein, Barone Giuseppe di Sfonti, Lord Tiberio Glantri and Lord Cesare Fulvina and proposed them to join their forces and migrate westwards, cutting all ties with Thyatis and founding new dominions of their own. They all shared Otto's mistrust towards the current Emperor, Lucinius VII, and had been often mistreated by the imperial Senate, so they accepted Otto's suggestion and began preparations for the migration. The migration started in the late fall of 728 and by the first months of AC 729 the various families reached to Selenica in Darokin. There they met another migrating group of Traladaran refugees from the south led by Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany, who were on their way to the same direction. Leaders of the two migrations thought that it was in the best interest of everyone if they travelled together. After a hard trek through the mountains and the goblinoid infested Broken Lands, the refugees reached the Highlands in AC 730 and separated again. Traladarans claimed the north-eastern forests and hills were only few Flaemish outcasts were living. Thyatians led by Glantri settled between Isoile and Red River in the area of modern Hightower. Hattians under the leadership of von Drachenfels and von Graustein settled at the shores of Red River in the area of later Eriadna and Volnay. Thyatians and Kerendans led by di Sfonti and Fulvina settled between Red River and Arnus. First years in the Highlands Herr Otto was tired man when he reached the Highlands. He was very tired of fighting and only wanted to get some peace. He was a cleric of Vanya but not very religious and not really a wartime leader. He had been the nominal leader of the migration, but only nominal. He made a wonderful figurehead with his imposing frame and noble outlook, but real leaders were Tiberio Glantri and Hans von Graustein, and Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany joined the duo after Selenica. Otto was very disappointed when frictions with the Flaems living in the settled area began to occur rather frequently. Leaders of the Flaems made it very clear that the settlers were not welcome. Otto tried to speak for a peaceful settlement, but Tiberio, who had married Otto's sister Griselda during migration in 729, was adamant: they would not give an inch to the Flaems. Otto gave up and so frictions soon became major skirmishes. Lord Glantri fell in battle in AC 734 and with him the settlers lost the only leader capable of uniting them. Otto gave up the next year and made a deal with local Flaems. They divided the area were Hattians had settled so that both sides were satisfied. Otto promised that they would never settle beyond the Red River and never paid any attention to the settlers' protests. He finally got what he most wanted: peace. After the peace treaty with Flaems Otto concentrated his efforts in building a castle (Schloß Tallenberg) for himself and his family and tried to oversee the welfare of his people. He was always very much loved by Hattians and so the mourning was very deep when he died in a building accident in AC 740 at the age of 43. Der Große Führer Otto's only son Joachim was only 20 when his father died, but he was already a capable ruler. He was nearly 7 feet tall, a robust and well-built young man with cunning eyes and a clever expression. He had a high self-esteem and a hot-blooded nature. He was not capable of staying in one place for too much time: he was very active and worked round the clock, enjoying drinking wine after a hard day's work. And he had a dream: he saw himself as a King of the united Highlands. To realise that dream Joachim understood that he had to maintain a peaceful relationship with the Flaems and to improve and strengthen his ties with the Kerendans. At first that went easy, since he got well along with his cousin Claudio Glantri, having been friends since childhood. Eleven years passed without any great conflicts. The most dramatic even in those years was the coming of the Kaelics led by McGregors from the d'Ambrevilles home world in AC 743. They settled at the feet of the Colossus Mountains between the rivers Fen and Til, where there were few other people living because of the climate. Their coming irritated the Flaems, but not so much to worsen the relations towards other groups. But in AC 751 Joachim made a mistake. He married Luise van Agt, daughter of the one of the Flaemish dukes. Duke Rodolfus van Agt was the most conciliatory of the Flaemish leaders and Joachim hoped to ease tensions with this political marriage. He also hoped to get more power. But he made a big miscalculation. Other Flaems were furious with van Agt for allowing a lowly non-Flaem to "pollute" their bloodline. Joachim's Thyatian and Kerendan allies saw this act as a grovelling towards the Flaems. Relations between Flaems and settlers deteriorated rapidly and minor skirmishes began again. And this time Hattians and Joachim von Drachenfels fought at the side of the Flaems. During the following five years Joachim showed his brilliant military skills. He had trained Hattian troops excellently. When skirmishes stopped in AC 756 everybody acknowledged that Joachim von Drachenfels was the best military leader in the Highland area. The following years were happy for Joachim. He still dreamt about a kingdom of his own, but now he was devoted to family life. He loved his wife and in AC 757 she begot their son Sigmund. Luise was also the only person who had any control over Joachim. Joachim was now somewhat overweighed for much drinking and tired for over-working. During the first five years of life of Sigmund, Joachim rested under his wife's watchful eyes and got his youthfulness back. Then in 761 disaster struck: Luise died at childbed. Joachim was stricken with sorrow and so he decided to concentrate his efforts in his big dream to get over the sorrow. Joachim began to send envoys to the Flaemish archdukes, to McGregors, to Sylaire, to Boldavia, to the elves and even to Ethengarians living on the eastern side of the Colossus Mountains. He proposed negotiations for building a unified state with all the different cultures. He even got some negotiation start but without any concrete results. Flaems didn't want to share their power with others, Ethengarians didn't want to deal with Flaems and elves refused to acknowledge the humans' right to possess these lands, and so on. Joachim tried diplomacy for the following eight years, until in AC 769 he finally understood that his efforts were useless. During these years he adopted the white colour of peace and negotiations, which then became the main colour of House Ritterburg. He dressed up at a white longhemmed coat, white leather trousers and big black leather boots. He also began to feel first signs of gout at this time. From AC 769 on his plan had changed: he now wanted to unite only Hattians, Thyatians and Kerendans first and then he would have conquered the other people using his military strength. In 776 he finally convinced the leaders of the other two groups to sign a military pact with him. In that pact leaders agreed to form a united front against the other groups in the Highlands. The others also agreed to acknowledge Joachim as supreme leader of all their three armies in case of war. During these years Hattians began to refer to Joachim as Der Große Führer, not only for his political and military merits but also because of his enormous size (he weighted over 150 kgs after over-eating and - -drinking in the past years). Joachim started then provocation's against the Flaems hoping that they would start a war. He was surprised by their patience. They withstood insult after insult until AC 784, when the proverbial drop brimmed over the vase. In that spring he met his brother-in-law Willem van Agt, and after drinking heavily they began to argue. When Willem blamed Joachim for Luise's death, Joachim suddenly stroke him death with one blow. Joachim did not intend to do anything like that, but when he understood what he had done it was too late. The Flaems were furious and declared war at the Hattians. At first all went well for Joachim and his allies. They conquered a vast stretch of land and even arrived to the Flaems' capital Braejr in 785, but there Joachim's gout got so bad that he was confined to bed. In the following battle the Flaems were victorious and the allies had to retreat south. The following year Joachim succeeded in negotiation with the elves, who joined the fight against the Flaems. Another lucky strike came at fall of AC 786, when an Alphatian mage named Halzunthram contacted Joachim and offered his help. He would ally with Joachim and bring a contingent of Alphatian battlemages with him. Joachim was suspicious at first, but since he realised that those troops were just what he needed to win the war in a short time, he accepted Halzunthram's alliance. He was sure that Alphatians posed no problem to him, and that he could kick them out after the war if need arose. During the following year Flaems were pushed north step-by-step, until in Flaurmont 17th AC 788 the Flaems were totally defeated at the Battle of Braastar. At the age of 68 Joachim was at the top of his military and political career. As the undisputed leader of the allied troops he accepted the surrender of the Flaemish leaders. But only a few minutes after the Flaemish surrendered the excitement of the moment and the strains of the last decades took their toll. Joachim von Drachenfels' heart failed him in this historic moment and he died. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #133 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 134 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 2 [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:31:20 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 2 The Forty Years War The leaders of the allied troops were dumbfounded by Joachim's sudden death and they didn't know what to do. There was no one else to assume Joachim's position. His 31-year old son Sigmund didn't have any of his father's leadership qualities. He was a slim, weasel-looking man, who enjoyed feasting and celebrations. He looked like a clown compared to his father. Titus Glantri and Ottone di Sfonti, the two most prominent among other leaders both lacked the charisma of Joachim von Drachenfels. They both knew that Joachim would have declared himself King of the Highlands, but they realised that no one else could do that. So together with Sigmund they decided to call the leaders of the elves and the Flaems for secret negotiations for the future. They left Halzunthram out because they assumed that he was leaving the area after the war. In the negotiations all parties agreed to establish Republic of the Highlands. The Flaems withdrew all claims to the lands south of Isoile and Fen rivers and all lands east of Vesubia and Fen rivers were assigned to the elves. The parties also agreed to establish a council composed of 3 Flaems, 2 elves, 1 Kerendan, 1 Thyatian and 1 Hattian to rule the country. Everyone was happy except for Halzunthram: he had no intention to leave the Highlands and now he felt betrayed by the Hattians. But Halzunthram had one ace in the sleeve that the others didn't know. In fact, Sigmund von Drachenfels was totally under his control. Sigmund saw Halzunthram as the man he always wanted to be, a cultivated, sophisticated, good looking leader with superior intelligence, and lived in his shadow, worshipping him much more than he did with his father. With Sigmund's help Halzunthram captured the council when it met for the first time. Halzunthram declared the Highlands an Alphatian colony and proclaimed himself High Governor. The response was immediate. Elves declared their independence and the Flaems revolted. Sigmund left his whole army under the leadership of Halzunthram while he stayed at home to amuse himself with other light-hearted Hattian and Thyatian nobles. He had no intention to take any part in the warfare and trusted Halzunthram's capacities. Halzunthram was also receiving more troops from Alphatia, so Sigmund thought that with his Hattian army it would take only a couple of years to beat the Flaems again. When the war prolonged and Halzunthram's demands to Thyatians and Kerendans began to grow, Sigmund was the only leader who didn't speak against Halzunthram and when Thyatians and Kerendans in AC 796 joined the Flaems Sigmund kept his Hattians at Halzunthram's side. At the spring of 801 Halzunthram declared that the rebels were vanquished. He began to divide the country among his followers and to give titles to them. To Sigmund he offered the position of Count of Ritterburg, but only if he would remove his house and Hattian followers to the area west of Aalban river in the north. He wanted the area were the Hattians have been living for himself. Much to the other Hattians' dismay Sigmund agreed and the Hattians were thus forced to pack their things up and to move to the area assigned to them the following year. There Sigmund ordered a new magnificent castle to be built for his family and guests: this will later be known as Schloß Ritterburg. In AC 802 a revolt threatened Halzunthram's control over the region. Dissidents had been negotiating with elves and Ethengarians living east of the Colossus Mountains and in that year the Ethengarians agreed to join to fight against Halzunthram. The rebels promised them area in the west side of mountains if they won. They had also been negotiating with Etienne d'Ambreville in the west and with Morphail Gorewitch-Woszlany in the north-east, but they both decided to stay out of this fighting. Also the Kaelics, who had retreated to the mountains, didn't want to take any part in these events. Halzunthram's troops were divided: Hattians were in the north and Alphatians in the south. Sigmund was still out of the fighting, being happy with his new hunting grounds in the Wendarian Mountains. During the following two years the rebels slowly beat Halzunthrams troops back. In 804 Halzunthram realised that he could enlist the dwarves (who had rushed in the Highlands after gold findings in 802) as fresh troops. Fatefully, in that same year a plague began spreading in the area and many people started to blame the dwarves for that because they seemed the only ones unaffected. However Halzunthram couldn't care less and besides he needed the dwarves' help badly. He informed the dwarves that he allowed them to stay if they joined his armies. With the help of the dwarves the war reached a stalemate situation until AC 806, when the elves finally joined the fight because of the dwarves fighting for Halzunthram. So Halzunthram had to bring again more troops from Alphatia to compensate the situation. In these years a new generation of people had grown seeing nothing but war. The old leaders' popularity among these folk was very low. The first and foremost representative of this dissatisfied generation was Wilhelm von Drachenfels. When Sigmund died at the age of 56 in a hunting accident, his 25-year old son Wilhelm took his place as head of the Hattian families. Wilhelm was his father's opposite in many ways. He was somewhat plump and didn't like parties. He was a devout follower of Vanya and had been taking part in the war since he was 16… and now he wanted to stop it. Wilhelm didn't like war and despised Halzunthram even more, but for present he chose to continue to fight with him. But in the secret he contacted the rebel leaders and began to negotiate with them to switch side. Negotiations were hard because rebels didn't trust him and he had also to keep the negotiations secret to Halzunthram's spies. Wilhelm went on with this doubleplay for seven years. Then in 820 the information leaked to Halzunthram, who went mad at the young man's treachery. Halzunthram was indeed trusting him all the time: he had even married his niece Charlana to Wilhelm in 811 to keep him in his side. Once discovered, Wilhelm openly switched to the rebels' side. The following year Morphail and his Traladarans joined the fight against Halzunthram and some of the Alphatians also switched side tired of Halzunthram's promises for quick ending of the war. These two years were decisive for the war. Only thanks to the arrival of new Alphatian troops could Halzunthram continue fighting for another six years. Then in AC 828 Lord Alexander Glantri, who had become leader of the rebel coalition, finally ambushed and captured Halzunthram. The Forty Years War was finally over. Wilhelm von Drachenfels At the end of 40-years-war Wilhelm was 40-years old. He had been battling for over 20 years of his life. During the last 15 years he had rebuilt his grandfather's army again in prime shape. During his father's time army's morale had decreased considerably: Sigmund was never in field with his army and there was lack of inspiring leadership. Wilhelm repaired all the damages, he removed one by one all the Alphatian commanders of the Hattian troops and replaced them with his own men. After betraying Halzunthram he rapidly became the second in command among the rebel leaders after Alexander Glantri. When the war was over, negotiations began about the future of the Highlands and the fate of the Alphatians remaining there. The first decree of the new leaders was the expulsion of dwarves from Glantri. They had continued fighting even after Halzunthram's death so there was no mercy for them. Leaders agreed in their negotiations that they would declare Glantri a republic, that was an easy decision. They all agreed in forming a parliament composed of two bodies to rule the republic: the Council and the House of Lords. The House of Lords was open to all the nobles, while the Council would have been formed by six members to represent major population groups: one member for Flaems, one for Ethengarians, one for Thyatians and Kerendans, one for Alphatians who betrayed Halzunthram, one for Traladarans who also joined the Republic and one for Hattians and Alphatians who stayed loyal to Halzunthram. (At this point d'Ambrevilles in the north-west stay outside of the new republic, and also the elves withdraw from the alliance after the war, they both join the land later.) The debate on the presence of the last group was most controversial, because at first most thought that they should have been expelled. But then Wilhelm said that he wanted to invite them among his Hattians, because most of their leaders were his wife's relatives. He also promised that if they started creating any problems then he could have been blamed for it. The others agreed mostly because they thought that in that way they could weaken Wilhelm's powerbase. They also decided that all the aspiring nobles had to make their claims to Council, which then examined them and declared which of them were valid. In 829 Alexander Glantri declared the Republic of Highlands founded. Members of the new Council were Alexander Glantri, Wilhelm von Drachenfels, Frederick Vlaardoen, Birkai Virayana, Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany and Vortram. At the first meeting other members decided that the capital city of Braejr would now on be known as Glantri City. They also divided the Council positions: Vlaardoen was named Supreme Judge, Glantri Chancellor, Vortram Chamberlain and Virayana Treasurer. At that point Wilhelm proposed to build two forts at the borders of the land and that the remaining members both got a responsibility for one of them. So Morphail was charged of building a fort on the Ethengarian border and Wilhelm on the Wendarian Mountains. The following years were peaceful for Wilhelm. He concentrated on building Fort Nordling and devoted his spare time to family life. Then in the end of AC 835 one of the most dramatic Council meetings took place. There were no controversial issues to debate and all was going smoothly until Vortram suddenly blasted Alexander Glantri to ashes. Before others got Vortram down, he had also managed to kill Birkai Virayana. Vortram was promptly executed the day after, declared insane by the three remaining Council members. Wilhelm was then offered Glantri's position as Chancellor but he refused because he wanted nothing more than to build his fort and be left in peace. So Lucchino di Sfonti was appointed new Chancellor, becoming Thyatians' and Kerendans' representative after Glantri. The following week the Council passed a law in memoriam of Lord Glantri and the land was officially renamed Republic of Glantri. Wilhelm von Drachenfels' last years were eventless and he died in 840 at the age of 52. After the war heavy drinking and eating with few exercise deteriorated his health rapidly. Also the stress for wanting to build an impassable fort took its toll, since he made a new addition every month in order to make Fort Nordling the best defended castle in the world. At Wilhelm's death, after 11 years of building the keep was not ready yet. Friedrich von Drachenfels Wilhelm's oldest son was 28 when his father died. He was very much his father's opposite. He was slim, didn't eat nor drink much and was very intelligent. In fact he was the first magic-user since a very long time in the house. His Alphatian mother realised his potential when he was very young and gave him the preliminary teachings about magic. Wilhelm wanted him to become a soldier like himself and his precessors. So when Friedrich was 12 his mother sent him secretly away from the house to Nouvelle Averoigne, where he became the pupil of Etienne d'Ambreville. They liked each other immediately and began a lifelong friendship. Friedrich was a brilliant student and learnt very quickly. When he came back to Ritterburg in 832 at the age of twenty, he had surpassed many older mages. At first his father was furious with him, but when Friedrich took also interest in military matters and began to study ways to mix magic with the common Hattian warfare techniques his father forgave him. Friedrich also began to hunt dragons in the Wendarian Ranges with his brothers. These forays gained great fame to them. This habit had then occupied all later generations of Drachenfels's. In AC 840 Friedrich had already shown brilliant tactical skills with normal and magic-using troops. So there were no objections among his younger brothers when he officially took the leadership of the house. Friedrich was also very stubborn and when after becoming member of the Council he got an argument with Frederick Vlaardoen, Supreme Judge of the Council, about a minor legal problem, he wasn't able to give up and so the two didn't speak to each other for seven years. Friedrich didn't even speak to Frederick's son Moritz. The first Vlaardoen to whom he spoke was Jacob Vlaardoen, Frederick's cousin, who became Council member in 850. Friedrich finished Fort Nordling in 842 and attended Council meetings from that year every time during the next 15 years. In 845 he was the first one to support Etienne d'Ambreville's petition to accept Nouvelle Averoigne in Glantri and to construct a school for magic-users in Glantri City. Both were controversial issues but at the end Etienne had its place in the House and broke the ground for the Great School of Magic. The Principalities of Glantri In 852 Etienne, who was now prominent member in the House of Lords, told Friedrich about his ideas of making Glantri a state ruled by magic-users only. Friedrich was thrilled by this idea and they began thinking about how this could be realised. Friedrich thought that the best way was to prepare the move thoroughly for some years. He was convinced that it should be a declaration made by the Council the best way to herald this change. Shortly after Friedrich began telling some of his trusted friends in the Council about Etienne's plan. Toktai Virayana, Jacob Vlaardoen and Morphail Gorewich-Wozslany all expressed their support to Friedrich during the following year. Two other members were more problematic. The Alphatians had been fighting for over ten years among each other and their current leader, Ambrosion, Treasurer of the Council and niece of Vortram, was challenged by Vortram's daughter Mariadna. The other problem were the Thyatians, whose leadership had always been in the hands of warriors. Their current Council representative was Giovanni di Sfonti, Chancellor of the Council. So all the others decided to wait at least until the Alphatians solved their inner fighting before taking any real action. In 854 both problems were solved. First Giovanni di Sfonti died unexpectedly and was succeeded by his niece Matteo, who was a magic-user. Then both Ambrosion and Mariadna died in two weeks time. Supporters of both side got together and proclaimed Mariadna's 21-year-old son Vitalin Aendyr as the new count. At the first meeting of the Council after these events Friedrich was appointed as new Chancellor. But before the Alliance of the Wizards had any time to make their move, Matteo di Sfonti was murdered and a furious infighting among his relatives to gain the leadership of the house followed. During the first three months about 20 close and not so close relatives of Matteo disappeared or were murdered. At the end only one contender was left to present his claim to viscountship: Matteo's cousin Borso di Sfonti, who luckily was also a magic-user. In the summer of 855 all Council members knew of Friedrich's plan and supported the scheme. They decided that the best moment for the declaration would be the 30th anniversary of Halzunthram's defeat in AC 858. During the following three years all of them gathered secretly their strengths and supporters in the House behind the scheme. They also decided that they would take the hereditary titles of Princes and that each of them would rule over a large principality. When the declaration was issued in 858 during the Light of Rad there was not much opposition. Of course the non-magic wielding nobles rebelled, but they were rapidly crushed without any real efforts. Friedrich, now Prince of Aalban, had tried to get support from all his brothers for the plan. He had given them all hints about what was going to happen but they hadn't realised how big the change was going to be. Some of them didn't mind and gave immediately their support for Friedrich. His oldest brother Franz, Baron of Leenz, was first against the declaration, but when Friedrich, who was some kind of a misogynist and who had never married, promised to make Franz's son Ernst to his heir and to give Franz a position only second to him in new principality, Franz gave him his support. Two younger brothers, Bruno and Kurt, took instead arms against Friedrich and organised a rebellion. It took Friedrich seven years to defeat them, and only in 866 they gave up their arms and stopped fighting. They were then expelled to Darokin. One consequence of the Light of Rad decision was that the elves announced their desire to join the state now. Elven troops also helped somewhat in crushing the resistance in south in 859. This came at some surprise to some of the Princes but in fact Friedrich had opened secret negotiations with Don Fernando de Belcadiz and Charan Erewan already in 856 about this. To Friedrich´s great surprise Don Fernando was easily persuaded and after his acceptance Charan also accepted the proposal. Because of the elven help in past and now new Council of Princes decided to create an elven Principality and took Don Fernando de Belcadiz to the Council, of course this was also agreed already in negotiations between Friedrich and the elves. He was given a task to build a fort against the border of Broken Lands. Der Alte Friedrich did have a major role in crushing the rebellions with his combined fighter-mage troops. For that he was awarded newly created honorary title of Warden of Marches as a nominal head of the army of Glantri. He also had a major role preventing relations with Darokin from breaking. He had to counter all the misinformation expelled nobles were spreading against Glantri in Darokin and also in Wendar. But he succeeded in that. In 868 Friedrich published his celebrated book about warfare and magic, Über Kriege und Magie, which later became a must-read for all Glantrian military leaders. After that, Friedrich mainly concentrated on making his principality richer and its people happy. He became a very much loved figure among Aalbanese, frequently touring the countryside in his old shaggy uniform, and so he earned the nickname of Der Alte. The major events during his last years were the opening of the Great School of Magic in 875 AC and the founding of the Principalities of Nouvelle Averoigne, Klantyre and Erewan. Friedrich supported totally Etienne d'Ambreville when he asked for the enfeoffment of Nouvelle Averoigne after the opening of the Great School. He also supported the establishment of Grand Master title as a Council office and Etienne's claim for that title as founder of the School and most prominent magician in Glantri. Likewise he supported Robert McGregor's plead for enfeoffment of Klantyre in the same year, because he somehow liked the old scot. Council decided to give Robert McGregor the task of building a fort on the western border with Sind. The division of the elven principality was a much more difficult matter. Elves had been quarrelling among themselves for some time already. But then in 884 Erewan elves surprised everyone for demanding their own principality. Friedrich sided with the majority in the Council when they decided that a division would be the best solution for everyone. This broke all friendly relationships between Friedrich and Fernando de Belcadiz, much to Friedrich's grief. This also strained somewhat Friedrich's relations with Etienne, since the Council decided to take Fort Ylourgne from Nouvelle Averoigne under the direct control of the Council and elect Charan Erewan as its viceroy. It was Friedrich's task to reason with Etienne and get him to agree without resistance. It was very much triumph for Friedrich that he succeeded in this without hurting touchy Etienne. Friedrich died in his sleep in AC 886 at the age of 74. The following week was national mourning in the whole Glantri and there was not a bad word said against him. Even the princes of Bergdhoven and Alhambra said some fine words about him. In Aalban all the people was afraid about the future under "Dummkopf", as they called Ernst von Drachenfels. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:32:49 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Ritterburg, part 3 Ernst von Drachenfels Often a lesser person follows after a great leader in history. The same happened also in Aalban in 886 when Ernst followed his uncle as prince and had already happened in 788 when Sigmund had followed his father Joachim. Ernst was already 42-year old and a total failure as magician. He was a big, over-weighted brute. His similarity with his grandfather Wilhelm was astonishing in all other matters except brains. Ernst was 15-years old when Friedrich named him his heir. His father Franz hired immediately a magician to teach Ernst the basics of the arcane art. That was everything he ever learned about magic. He had difficulties even with the most simple spells. But he was nonetheless a magic-user and he couldn't be discarded when Friedrich died. In fact it was rumoured that if Friedrich had lived couple of years longer, he would have passed Ernst and named his son Albrecht as his heir. Albrecht was only 16-years old when Friedrich died. In the Council there was never any discussion about giving Ernst any charge other than viceroy of Nordling. In fact, Etienne d'Ambreville even made a point about not giving even that to him. Ernst started hating Etienne from that point. Ernst thought himself as a great military man and resented Etienne's attitude towards him. The Council also decided that from now on all the nobles had to be graduates from the Great School. This decision was made so that there wouldn't be anymore men like Ernst in the Council or in the House of Lords. Ernst was like his grandfather also in his obsession with Fort Nordling. In his 11 year long reign he spent all the wealth Friedrich had collected in making the fort even more formidable than it was. He ruined the economics of Aalban totally with this obsession. When he died he had taken enormous loans against his possessions. He also neglected the army. One major happening during his reign was the disappearance of Castle d'Ambreville and all the d'Ambrevilles with it in AC 896. The whole Nouvelle Averoigne was also covered with impenetrable mists. This caused turmoil in Glantrian politics, because Etienne d'Ambreville had been major mover in country. The Supreme Judge Toktai Virayana I also happened to die about the same time. Ernst was happy and hoped to get a promotion in the Council. But that was hopeless, he was again passed over. Ernst died in AC 897 at the age of 53 for over-eating. No one was unhappy with his passing. Albrecht von Drachenfels Albrecht was 27-years-old when he took the leadership of House Ritterburg. He was tall and lean, some would even say a handsome young man. He was more intelligent than his father and definitely a better magician. He was an outgoing socialite who had been educated in the Great School in Glantri City. He liked parties and good company and took friends easily. His great-uncle Friedrich had sent him to school to learn from the best possible teacher: Etienne d'Ambreville. During his time at school he also befriended prince Fernando de Belcadiz and young Filippo di Sfonti, who was 12-years younger than him. The old elf-prince liked the easygoing Aalbanese and taught him some basics of elven magic. Albrecht was also a success in the city's social life, he was quite a lady's man. He also met his future wife Selena, cousin of Prince Pelagiri Aendyr, in Glantri City. They married in AC 893. In 902 Albrecht was elected as Chancellor of the Princes after the death of Willem Vlaardoen II. His election was due mostly to the support of Fernando de Belcadiz, who had been selected as Grandmaster after the disappearance of the d'Ambrevilles. Albrecht had great success in this position too. Foreign ambassadors liked him and his parties. The most important event during his term was the dealings with Darokin in 920-21. After hard negotiations an economic agreement was signed with the Republic. Then in early 921 Glantri's ambassador to Darokin began to hear rumours about bribing of some high-position Glantrian officials during negotiations. Investigations revealed that the Treasurer of the Council Owain Aendyr had taken heavy bribes from some Darokinian merchants for his support. It was also discovered that he had stolen money from the treasury. Owain was promptly removed from the Treasury and fell in disgrace. This also broke relations between Albrecht and his wife's relatives in Blackhill. Besides this his life was pretty eventless. He partied in Glantri City, mostly with Filippo di Sfonti, who became Prince of Caurenze in 912 after his brother's murder. Albrecht died in 940 at the age of 70. He had been prince for 43 years and was deeply sorrowed by common Aalbanese. Johann von Drachenfels Johann was already middle-aged, a 45-year old competent wizard, when he followed his father as Prince. In his younger days he had been as social as his father. He had been a good-looking, fun-loving young man. Everyone liked him. However, during the years he had become more reclusive and he was increasingly obsessed with magical research. So when he became Prince he immediately asked his younger brother Georg to help him. And when Johann was made Viceroy of Ylourgne, he sent his cousin Gerhard there and gave him and Georg free hands in military matters. Years went easily on and the only problems were some humanoid raids from mountains. But Johann didn't have to worry about these because Georg took care of these. One major problem was inheritance. Johann and his wife Sophie were childless. Everyone assumed that Georg would be the next prince if he outlived his brother, but Johann didn't comment the question. Major alteration for his reclusive life of studying came in 950. Johann was in every measure the greatest magician of that time and by far the best wizard amongst the von Drachenfels' family. In that year he was chosen as Grandmaster of the Great School of Magic and had to move to Glantri City. In fact he was relieved: now he could leave all matters concerning Aalban to his brother and concentrate totally to magic. He was one of the best grandmasters the Great School had. Students and other teachers liked him and he liked teaching more than politics. Then in 956 many began to spot some changes in Johann. He began to forget thinks, he didn't remember what he was doing or saying, he disappeared and was later found in odd places without any knowledge what he was doing. His erratic behaviour began to affect everyone in the School increasingly. Something had to be done. Georg von Drachenfels came before the Council and proposed that they let Johann to keep his status as Prince but that they removed him from his Grand Master's position. His brother was clearly becoming senile and couldn't take care of his responsibilities anymore. Georg said that because he had already taken care of Aalban for years he didn't want to replace his brother as Prince. He had no ambitions to that position and would have waited for Johann's death. The Council agreed to these proposals and elected Johann as Viceroy of Nordling. Johann's successor as Grandmaster, Charan Erewan, liked Johann and let him keep his quarters at the Great School. Johann von Drachenfels wandered the corridors of the School for the next four years before finally disappearing in 961 at the age of 66. Nobody found him anymore… Georg von Drachenfels Georg was 64-years old when he at last took the formal position of Prince of Aalban and viceroy of Nordling. He was not so great as a magician as his brother, but he was definitely better as administrator and politician. He was an imposing massive man with enormous moustaches and sidebars. He was already nearly bald. He had always been number two in Aalban. He was not so intelligent as his elder brother Johann and he was the first to admit that. But he had a deep sense of responsibility. He had been at first afraid of the possibility to become a Prince: he had no ambitions, he was shy and wanted to stay out of the limelight's. But when his brother asked him to help in governing Aalban, his sense of responsibility was so great that he couldn't refuse. So when he became a Prince in 961 he was probably the best prepared von Drachenfels to ever take that position. He had been de facto Prince for already over 10 years. His succession was secure, his son Morgaithe was already 40-years old and his grandson Jaggar 16. In fact most Aalbanese thought that Georg would step down after couple of years. He was planning to do just that but at first came some financial problems which delayed his resignation, because he knew that his son didn't understand anything about economics. Then in 966 he was quite surprisingly chosen as Chamberlain of Glantri. The elven Princes were Grandmaster and Supreme Judge so Georg was chosen as best available candidate because of his sense of responsibility and because of his knowledge of the Glantrian countryside from his youth in the Army. Georg was a success in this position, he bettered the road conditions all over Glantri and built some new bridges in strategic places. Georg remained Prince of Aalban until his death for natural causes in 978 at the age of 81. Morgaithe von Drachenfels Morgaithe was already 57 when he succeeded his father. He was physically not so big as his father, but an imposing figure anyway with his full beard and shining white uniform. He was more militarily oriented than both his father and uncle together had been. He and his wife Hildegarde had been waiting already over 20 years for the day Morgaithe would have become a Prince and were in a hurry to realise their plans. Morgaithe was chosen as Viceroy of Ylourgne. He immediately began to suppress the orc tribes living in the surrounding mountains. His plan was first to pacify humanoids and then to conquer the Adri Varma Plateau. He was waiting for easy victory, but somehow there seemed to be an endless number of orcs and other humanoids in the mountains. In AC 979 one of the major events in Glantri's history took place: the return of the d'Ambrevilles. This took everyone by surprise. Among the Princes there were only the elves and Morphail who remembered the d'Ambrevilles personally, so there was quite a turmoil. After Etienne was again recognised as a Prince he immediately demanded back his position as Grandmaster. Most Princes, and Morgaithe amongst them, recognised that he had a certain privilege for that. But still majority thought that it would be wrong to force out the current holder, Jherek Virayana III, without any fault on his side, so the demand was turned down. Next happened something that broke Morgaithe's relation with Etienne: he demanded the viceroyalty of Ylourgne for himself. Morgaithe was furious because he had made all his plans on conquering humanoid tribes around Ylourgne for all these years and definitely didn't want to be removed from that place. Morgaithe succeeded in getting the majority of the Council to his side in this issue and Etienne had to be content with the viceroyalty of Monteleone. After this episode Morgaithe was always against everything Etienne supported. Then in AC 983 disaster came: Morgaithe fell in battle against the orcs. Hildegarde was devastated, all their plans were blown away. Hildegarde put all her remaining hope in their 38-years-old son, Jaggar. He had always been at his father's side and accepted his plans, so Hildegarde hoped he would avenge Morgaithe's death. One other soothing matter was that Jaggar was still unmarried, so Hildegarde would have stayed for the time being as mistress of Ritterburg. Jaggar von Drachenfels Jaggar immediately took his father's crusade against humanoids to a new level. Within the following four years he butchered every humanoid he found within 80 mile from Ylourgne. Then he became bored, there was no challenge in killing humanoids. He began to think about marriage. He realised that if he had died, his sister Helgar would have inherited Aalban. Jaggar had begun to dislike his mother's meddling in his matters and Helgar's rulership meant that Hildegarde would have been the real ruler. In the last two years Hildegarde had been presenting young women to Jaggar as possible wives. Jaggar had turned all of them down because he knew that they were all totally under his mother's control. Then in 989 he shocked his mother announcing his marriage with Gertrude Krema, member of the family he knew his mother hated. Hildegarde was born in Ludenburg family, which was one of the few pure Hattian families in Aalban and which had always been proposing about removing Alphatian influence out of Aalban. The Krema family, on the other hand, although originally Hattian, had adopted Alphatian ideas and had made marriages with Alphatian families. Jaggar wanted to heal some of the wounds amongst Aalbaneese nobility with this Alphatian-Hattian marriage, but he also wanted to teach a lesson to his domineering mother. After marriage Jaggar began to search a way to get out of Ylourgne to do something else than scout the mountains. The possibility came when in AC 991 the Supreme Judge Alfonso de Belcadiz was killed. Jaggar immediately announced his candidacy. To his great dismay he lost the competition to Jherek Virayana. Most of the Princes considered Jaggar too militarily oriented to be a good judge. Jaggar took his defeat as an insult and developed deep hatred towards Ethengarians afterwards. Only one month later Chancellor Mario di Malapietra was poisoned in reception of foreign ambassadors. This gave Jaggar a new opportunity. He didn't want a chancellorship, but he knew that Volospin Aendyr wanted that position. Volospin was currently Viceroy of Nordling and Jaggar promised him his support if he would have supported Jaggar's claim to Nordling. If Jaggar was to be stick with some viceroyalty, he would rather be Nordling than Ylourgne. There was no difficulties in the Council session: Volospin was chosen as a new Chancellor, Jaggar got Nordling and the new Prince of Caurenze, Innocenti di Malapietra, got viceroyalty of Ylourgne, much to Etienne d'Ambrevilles great annoy. In AC 994 Jaggar was given the position of Warden of Marches because of his brilliant strikes against humanoids of Broken lands. The position had been open since death of Don Alfonso de Belcadiz, because Princes had not agreed to whom to give it. After Jaggar's victories there was no more obscurity about the best candidate. And the rest is told in official books... Summary Heinrich von Drachenfels b.671 d.719 Otto von Drachenfels b.697 d.740 Joachim von Drachenfels b.720 d.788 Sigmund von Drachenfels b.757 d.813 First Count of Ritterburg Wilhelm von Drachenfels b.788 d.840 Viceroy of Nordling 829-840 Friedrich von Drachenfels b.812 d.886 First Prince of Aalban Viceroy of Nordling 840-854 Chancellor of the Princes 854-886 Warden of Marches 859-886 Ernst von Drachenfels b.844 d.897 Viceroy of Nordling 886-897 Albrecht von Drachenfels b.870 d.940 Viceroy of Nordling 897-902 Chancellor of the Princes 902-940 Johann von Drachenfels b.895 d.961? Viceroy of Ylourgne 940-950 Grand Master of the School of Magic 950-957 Viceroy of Nordling 957-961 Georg von Drachenfels b.897 d.978 Viceroy of Nordling 961-966 Chamberlain of the Land 966-978 Morgaithe von Drachenfels b.921 d.983 Viceroy of Ylourgne 978-983 Jaggar von Drachenfels b.945 d.? Viceroy of Ylourgne 983-991 Viceroy of Nordling 991-? Warden of Marches 994- Chamberlain of the land 1004-1011 Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #134 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 135 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - Quests for Immortality [MYSTARA] - House Alhambra [MYSTARA] - House of Ellerovyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:32:42 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words On Mon, 8 Mar 1999, Carlos Yoder wrote: > I've never read ElfQuest, should I? Yup! The first books are great. Exciting lovely story with excellent artwork. > Before Tolkien's work, the word 'elf' meant almost the same as goblin, or > imp or wight. > Nowadays, everyone *knows* that an elf is a fair-skinned slender guy with > pointed ears... a description which didn't exist before The Hobbit. I dunno about that. I think most of the elements Tolkien used were taken from other sources. Celtic and Norse myths mainly. But these creatures were only described vaguely and often myths were in contradiction with one another. > > I have met people who think that the Dragonlance Chronicles are way better > than Lord of the Rings. And in a way, > > maybe that is true; Whats so exciting about a world that has elves, > dwarves and halflings? > > Maybe they're right. But if you see those guys again, tell them to read The > Silmarillion. If they pass the first hundred pages, they'll reconsider what > they said about DL (which sucks big time :-). FYI, I've read The > Silmarillion about 7 times. :-) Whoha! I only read it once so far. :) > > Doesnt every world have those guys these days? And Legolas, an elven > archer? Thats such a cliché. :( > How do you play that elven archer, that's what makes a difference to me. That is a good point. But its important to realize that not all elves are archers either Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:43:21 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quests for Immortality > character's situation. I was just curious to find out, from those among > the list who have participated in campaigns dealing with the pursuit of > immortality, what they as DM's or players specifically did. That is, as > a DM what trials did you devise for your players, or as a player, what > quests did your character embark upon. Well, seeing how my first character eventually attained immortality, I have been through this. The problem is, that I don't recall it so clearly now...Obviously it wasn't that exciting. : ) It was 10 years ago, though... But, I do remember how I ran all over Norwold, looking for a silly mountain, where I could petition. Actually I don't think I ever quite figured out who my sponsor was... But anyway this sponsor had a great mountain somewhere in the Wyrmsteeth Range and I had to face all sorts of dragons and weird situations while climbing this mountain. I had a sword called Guenther that could grant me the Flying ability, but for some reason I couldn't use it. I think my sponsor made it clear that I should leave it at home, that I had to prove my own abilities. Well, I eventually reached the top and had my petition that went well. Then I went through the quests of the Paragon (I think) and the most memorable one was having to fight all those magic-users. You see my character was an elf, and I had the spell-casting abilities of a 10th-level Elf (though my character was of 30th level or so), and this was shall we say a small problem for me : ) And well, I'm sorry that I can't really give you too many details here; I don't really recall, but eventually I succeeded at all my quests and attained immortality; just a month before I had to move to a different country, thereby effectively retiring my character. (This was also probably why I can't remember those quests; we had to hurry abit here). > Also, the Codex mentions that characters must discover where their > sponsor entertains petitions from those seeking Immortality and that > "each Immortal has one and only one Site where he or she receives > candidates." Have any of these Sites been detailed by anyone or is this > a juicy piece of Mystara that has yet to be fleshed out? I don't think these sites have ever been detailed; I only know of the one i visited, and I don't know which immortal it was dedicated to, but it was in the middle of the Wyrmsteeth Range in Norwold and was quite inaccessible... Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:35:38 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House Alhambra History of House Alhambra, Version 2 First Years in Highlands The Belcadiz elves arrived in the foothills of the Colossus Mounts in the middle of the 6th century. No one knows where they came from and they haven't told it anyone so far. Their leader at that time was a cultivated elder elf, Don Miguel de Belcadiz. He was as diminutive as all male amongst Belcadiz elves, but he had an authoritative aura around him. He had a steel grey goatee and drooping moustaches. His fiery temper had been soften by the age. Elves settled in the area around modern New Alvar. From the beginning they had hostile relations towards denizens of the Broken Lands and there was much fighting. Don Miguel was not happy with this situation and decided that they should move to the north to get more distance from humanoids. This was a fateful decision, because at the shores of the Vesubia river the elves met the Flaems: the clash was immediate. The Flaems had been fighting with all their neighbours since their coming to the Highlands and they considered the elves only as a new threat. Elves had to retreat back to woods around the foothills of the mountains after only a couple of years of war. The raiding went on for another couple of years. Then in AC 565 Don Miguel contacted the leaders of southern Flaem holdings and proposed a meeting. That was arranged at the meetings of Red River and Vesubia. Don Miguel arrived with his retinue only to realise that the Flaems had set up a trap. The elves were seized and ceremoniously sacrificed in the holy fire of the Flaems. The elves were of course furious for this betrayal. This is something that still burns in their memory and is very much the reason for their bad relations with the Flaems. Don Manuel de Belcadiz The next leader of the elves was Don Miguel's eldest son, Don Manuel, a middle-aged elf with a great military talent but a very rash temper. Thanks to his military genius, the less numerous elves were able to keep their positions against the magical might of the Flaems during the 7th century. There were not two peaceful years in a row during the whole century, but one must also acknowledge that one of the reasons that there was no peace was Don Manuel's temper. At first he executed all messengers from the Flaems and when his councillors at last got him at the negotiation table he couldn't stand any demands from the Flaems. At the beginning of the 8th century both sides were finally tired of fighting. In AC 702 they made a truce and the southern Flaemish lords promised the lands between Vesubia and Colossus Mounts to the elves. Don Manuel was relieved but uneasy: he had nothing to do in times of peace. After couple of months he decided to break his daily monotony and began the construction of castle Alhambra in the mountains. This splendid castle-palace was finished in 711. In AC 710 something happened that changed everything: the Erewan elves came to the Highlands from Alfheim. Their leader, Charan Erewan, immediately contacted Don Manuel and acknowledged his authority, asking permission to settle amongst the dark-skinned elves. The alliance between two elven clans was sealed in AC 712, when Don Manuel's eldest son, Don Fernando, married Charan Erewan's sister Charlena. The two young elves had fallen in love immediately after their first meeting two years earlier, but it had taken some time to convince the leaders of the desirability of this marriage. In the same year Don Manuel and Charan Erewan also decided that the area was too crowded for both elven groups. Don Manuel proposed that the Erewan elves would move to the woods between Vesubia and Red River were only a few Flaemish woodcutters were living. Unfortunately Don Manuel didn't even bother to ask permission from the Flaems. So, immediately after the Erewan elves moved there, the Flaemish lords declared that the elves had broken the truce and began raiding again. Many raids were targeted against the Belcadiz elves and in AC 717 Don Manuel fell defending the newly established city of New Alvar. Don Fernando de Belcadiz After don Manuel's death the elves where ruled by the new generation. The new leader don Fernando was only 136, his wife Charlena 125, his younger brother Alfonso 62 and his brother-in-law Charan Erewan 175-years-old. They were all still young for elven standards. Don Fernando had been living all his earlier years in the middle of the fighting against the humanoids or the Flaems, but contrary to most other elves of his generation he was already tired of it. He was more mild-tempered than most other male elves of his clan. All he really wanted was peace, so that he could concentrate on family life with his beloved wife, Charlena. At first it looked as though that would remain only as dream. He couldn't control elder clan leaders who wanted to avenge his father's death, so the skirmishing continued on and on for 13 years without any great gains for either side. Then in AC 730 settlers from Alasiyan and Traladaran lands changed the situation. When the settlers came over the Broken Lands, the elves were at first wary of them. But then Don Fernando realised that if he established good relations with them, he could use them as a buffer against the Flaems. He met the leaders of the settlers and promised them a safe route through the elven forests to the more open areas at the river valleys, if they would protect the forests from the aggressions of the Flaems once they settled there. The leaders realised the motives of don Fernando for making this proposal, but as they had no desire for either settling in the forests or fighting their way through it, they accepted the proposal. The move was brilliant. The other elves were at first against it, but when they realised that the settlers were not a threat to them and that in the future fighting would continue between different groups of humans, even the most reluctant leaders admitted the genius of the move. They could now concentrate their troops against the humanoids. The next years were peaceful for the elves. The settlers and the Flaems were fighting against each other and the elves were left in peace. Don Fernando kept good relations with the first generation of the settlers, but when the second generation came to power the relations began to deteriorate. Especially leaders of the Thyatian settlers demanded more support against the Flaems, so after AC 754 Don Fernando broke all relations with the settlers. When Joachim Von Drachenfels sent his envoys to propose a unified state in the area in AC 762, Don Fernando announced that the elves had no desire to let the humans decide anything concerning their lands. They wanted to keep their independence and if someone tried to take it away from them, they would resist with arms. One thing which affected the decision was that Don Fernando and the other elven leaders recognised Joachim's thirst for power and didn't like it. These were happy years for Don Fernando. There was generally peace in elven forests. Some humanoid raids happened but that was all. The only dark cloud was that he and Charlena didn't get a child. This was not a big problem for them because as elves they had all the time in the world, but anyhow after 40-years trying the thing began somewhat to preoccupy them. The Forty Years War When the all-out war broke between the Flaems and the settlers in AC 784, settler leaders again approached the elves. Don Fernando's answer was same as 20 years earlier: the elves didn't want to take any part in a war among humans. Then in the spring of AC 786 Joachim von Drachenfels came in person to negotiate with the elven leaders. He was well prepared and used just the right arguments. He promised to recognise their independence at the end of the war and he also told them that this was a good opportunity, maybe the last one, to avenge the deaths of Don Manuel, Don Miguel and countless of other dead at the hands of the Flaems. Don Fernando was still against the war, but he knew that he couldn't control the younger generation led by his own brother Don Alfonso. Those younger elves would have joined the settlers' cause anyway, so Don Fernando gave away and promised his support to the settlers. During the next years the elves fought side-by-side with the settlers and the newly-arrived Alphatian battlemages in every major battle. Don Fernando didn't personally take part in the fighting, he left the leadership of elven troops to Don Alfonso and Charan Erewan. At the battle of Braastar the elven longbowmen were decisive in guaranteeing the victory. To Don Alfonso, the battle was personally both a triumph and a tragedy. He slayed alone the Grand Duke Willem van Drees and six of his bodyguards. On the other hand, his only son, Felipe, was among the casualties. Don Fernando arrived in Braastar immediately after receiving the announcement of Joachim von Drachenfels's death. He took the leadership of the elves in negotiations leading to the establishment of the Republic of the Highlands, while Don Alfonso hurried home with his son's body. The negotiations were surprisingly easy because everyone was looking for peace. The Flaems were so totally defeated that they had no objections against anything the allies wanted them to accept, so the settlers got the ownership of the lands they had already occupied and the elves also got the same recognition. Don Fernando also surprised everyone when he announced that the elves wanted to join the new republic. The composition of the new council was also Don Fernando's idea. The settler leaders would have liked a council were there were 1 Flaem, 1 Thyatian, 1 Kerendan, 1 Hattian and 1 elf. Don Fernando's opinion was that this would have been unfair for both the Flaems and the elves, so he proposed that there should be 3 Flaems and 2 elves instead of 1 for both. This was accepted after some negotiations. Don Fernando and Charan Erewan took the elven seats in the council. They were present at the first meeting when Halzunthram made his coup and captured the council members. At first it seemed that everyone had submitted to his coup, but then the elves made a daring strike under the leadership of don Alfonso and released the imprisoned Flaemish and elven council members. The Flaems revolted immediately and the elves declared their independence. Don Fernando was disappointed of the human treachery and once again he wanted to take no part in what was happening in the north-west. Luckily for the elves, Halzunthram was interested in crushing the Flaems more than anything else and so they were left in peace. Only after AC 796, when Thyatians and Kerendans joined the Flaems in the rebellion, were the elves approached. Don Fernando was adamant the elves would have taken no part in the fighting unless someone attacked them first. Don Fernando's opinion began to change only after Halzunthram enlisted the dwarves to his side in AC 804. The elves had had problems with them for two years already. The dwarves had been filtering through the Broken Lands since the gold findings in AC 802 and the elves didn't like them digging in their forested hills. The situation with the dwarves went from bad to worse, until Don Fernando announced in AC 806 that the elves joined the fight against Halzunthram. Again he left the leadership of the elven troops to his brother Don Alfonso. The war went on for 22 years and the elven troops suffered great losses during those years. They were mostly fighting against dwarven and Alphatian troops in the southern Highlands. Don Fernando's greatest contributions were his negotiations first with Wilhelm von Drachenfels and then with Morphail Gorewitch-Woszlany. Without his efforts Morphail probably wouldn't have joined the rebels in AC 822. The Republic of the Highlands The negotiations after the death of Halzunthram were difficult for Don Fernando. His every instinct was against joining the humans in the new regime, but he also realised the advantages that it would bring to elves. They would have allies against the humanoids of the Broken Lands. The other point was that although he was sure that most current human leaders would be his friends, he couldn't be sure about the future generations. His brother Don Alfonso pressed him also very hard for joining, because he could think only its military advantages. But at the end in spite of everything this Don Fernando's decision was not to join the new republic. When Don Fernando heard about Alexander Glantri's death at the hands of Vortram in AC 835 his trust in humans was nearly destroyed: it was the umpteenth proof that one could never trust them. He was saddened also because he had seen in Alexander the only man capable to hold the republic together. Fortunately his foreboding was erroneous. When in AC 858 the Light of Rad decision was declared, Don Fernando had already changed his mind about humans. Friedrich von Drachenfels had contacted him and Charan Erewan in 856 and told them about the coming change. Don Fernando thought that reserving rulership to more intelligent people would lessen the chaos, improve the cohesion of the country and lessen the possibilities of wars. Unfortunately in this his foreboding went wrong. He decided to join the Glantri after the decision and Friedrich promised him a position in Council and status of Prince. So when Don Fernando declared in 859 elves willingness to join the Principalities only Prince to object was Jacob Vlaardoen I. Don Fernando was given place in Council as Prince of Belcadiz and Marquis of Alhambra. At the first meeting of the Council Don Fernando was appointed to build a fort against the border of the Broken Lands. Don Fernando was not pleased with this, but he gave the supervising of the building to his brother. Elves surprised everyone when they announced in 861 that Fort Monteleone was finished. Next year Don Fernando was chosen as Chamberlain of the Land. With this office he was happy. He was by nature a diplomat and an administrator and could now use his talents to their best for building new roads and bridges, and tending forests. Personal Tragedy Year 858 was a happy one for Don Fernando, for his son Don Carlo was born. Every elf was happy for Don Fernando and Dona Charlena, because their long efforts had at last born a fruit. Next two years were the happiest in their life. But then dark clouds began to gather over the Belcadiz. Something seemed to be wrong with their son. He had difficulties learning to speak and when at the age of 5 he could at last speak something, it was obvious that he wasn't mentally at the level of other children of the same age. Don Fernando and Dona Charlena were devastated when it was clear that their son wouldn't ever learn even to read. All this was kept secret to the outside world. They said that Don Carlo had a bad health so they didn't want to strain him by meeting with outsiders. When it was absolutely sure that there was no cure for Don Carlo, Don Fernando was so devastated that he decided that his son should never meet other people. He took him to a secret place known only by him and some clan elders and afterwards announced that his son had died. Dona Charlena guessed what had happened and never forgave his husband that he did that without consulting her first. She was told later where Don Carlo was and given permission to visit him there. Don Fernando hoped that they could give birth to another child to succeed him, but these hopes were crashed in AC 869, when Dona Charlena, on her way back home from a visit to his brother Charan, was slain in an ambush by some orcs. Don Fernando felt like his whole world was crumbling around him. Don Fernando blamed his brother-in-law for his wife's death and broke all relations with Erewans. This hostility culminated in the division of the elven Principality in AC 884. During these 15 years, the Erewans were reduced to second-class citizens in the Principality of Belcadiz. There were harsher sentences for them, harsher taxation and so on. The division of the Principality was a hard pillow to swallow for Don Fernando and it broke his good relations with Friedrich von Drachenfels, but anyhow when Friedrich died two years later even Don Fernando couldn't say a bad word about him. Don Fernando's Last Years When Etienne d'Ambreville asked Don Fernando to give classes in the Great School of Magic after it was opened in AC 875, he was delighted. He could now find relief only in his work in Etienne's school. So it was no surprise that after d'Ambrevilles's disappearance in AC 896 he was chosen as new Grandmaster. He now spent all his time in the school or in rare visits to his mentally retarded son. At first the new responsibilities seemed to revive him, but after AC 910 his state of mind began to worsen. He visited his son more and more frequently and everyone in School realised that every time he came back from Alhambra he was more depressed. Then in AC 912 he made a surprise announcement that he would give up his position as Prince to his brother Don Alfonso, which also meant that he would give up his position as Grandmaster. He went back to Alhambra and only two months later Don Alfonso announced that his brother had died at the age of 331. In fact, Don Fernando hanged himself in his son's chamber. He had considered his life and seen it as a total failure. He had surrendered the independence of the elves to humans, he had caused the division of the elven Principality, he had made everyone's life miserable. He couldn't stand it anymore. He also considered killing his son first, but in the end he couldn't do it. Don Alfonso de Belcadiz Don Alfonso was 257-years old when he became Prince of Belcadiz. He was in many ways the opposite of his elder brother. In his younger days Don Alfonso was quick-tempered, easily insulted, always waving his rapier at the slightest insult. Now he had somewhat calmed down. But anyhow he was more a warrior than diplomat or administrator like his brother had been. Moreover he had four living children so continuity was secured. In his younger days Don Alfonso had led the elven warriors in retaliations against humanoids and northern neighbours when necessary. He had also been the warleader of the elven troops first in the war against the Flaems in 780's and then against Halzunthram. In those years rests his claim as greatest Belcadizian warrior ever. After the wars he had been his Brother's deputy first in ruling Alhambra as Marquisate and then as Principality. After Don Fernando broke relations with Erewan elves, it was Don Alfonso who realised the oppression of the Erewans. He ruled the Erewan part of the Principality like a military dictator for 14 years. In fact, Don Alfonso never liked Erewans, who he considered as intruders. After Don Alfonso became a Prince, he heard from the clan's sage, Don Rodrigo de Belcadiz, that his nephew was still alive. He was surprised but could visit him only after Don Fernando's death. His hatred toward Erewan elves only grew when he saw Don Carlo's condition. He blamed them for polluting the Belcadizan blood and immediately forbade marriages between the two elven groups. He never visited Don Carlo again and even forbade Don Rodrigo to speak of him. The only reason Don Carlo survived further was because Dona Leontina, Don Alfonso's wife, took a pity of him and took care of him, helped first by Don Rodrigo and then by his son Alejandro. After taking a seat in the Council, Don Alfonso was elected as new Supreme Judge, much to his surprise. The previous judge Antonie Vlaardoen V was chosen as the new Grand Master and there was no one else who wanted the position. Don Alfonso was not happy with the situation either, he had hoped to become a Viceroy of some fort, preferably Monteleone. But he realised the advantages of the position and accepted it. He knew that with that position he could harass Erewan elves in Glantri City "legally". Aside from this, Don Alfonso proved a fair Supreme Judge, since he could take a neutral position in human politics; he also relaxed the laws somewhat as his Chaotic nature demanded. In AC 937 he was also given a title of Warden of Marches, because of his superior war experience. Don Alfonso also had one domestic problem: his oldest son Don Hippolito. From the beginning Don Alfonso saw that Don Hippolito would have been a disaster as a ruler, and Dona Leontina had the same opinion. But they didn't agree about who should replace him. They also agreed that their youngest son Don Ricardo was not capable either. Dona Leontina's favourite was the second son Don Diego, while Don Alfonso preferred their only daughter Dona Carnelia, with his husband Don Miguel. In AC 985 Don Alfonso at last decided to settle the question. He called his family together and announced his decision to pass Don Hippolito. He demanded everyone to swear to honour this decision after his death. Don Hippolito understandably was furious for this and left immediately. Don Alfonso put the question of choosing between Dona Carnelia and Don Diego before the others. Don Ricardo immediately made known his support for his brother. But then came a surprise when Don Diego gallantly announced that he supported his sister and his husband Don Miguel to avoid more family quarrels. Nobody at that time expected that Don Alfonso's death would come in six years. Don Alfonso's hot-temper cost him his life. In AC 912 he was challenged to fight during a court session and without much pondering he accepted the challenge from an unknown stranger. Only this time he met a better rapierist than he himself was. Don Alfonso was 336-years old when he died heart pierced in the middle of Alexander-Plaza. His killer vanished immediately after the deed was done. Dona Carnelia de Belcadiz Everyone was shocked when they heard about Don Alfonso´s death. It was so sudden and unexpected. Dona Leontina immediately announced that she had no claims to be a ruler and that she would retire to the Convent. After that Dona Carnelia called his husband Don Miguel back from a mountain expedition, but got no answer. After couple of weeks she realised that she was now sole ruler of Alhambra at the age of 179. She was as shocked as his father when she was told about Don Carlo, now a 133-years old "cretin". Dona Carnelia chose to keep his cousin's existence secret as his father did. Some members of the family have a strange feeling that there is some great secret that is not told to them, but nothing has yet been discovered. Currently, only Dona Carnelia, Dona Leontina, and the clan's sage Don Alejandro know of Don Carlo's existence. Summary Miguel de Belcadiz b.? d.565 Manuel de Belcadiz b.? d.717 Fernando de Belcadiz b.581 d.912 First Marquis of Alhambra First Prince of Alhambra Viceroy of Monteleone 859-862 Chamberlain of the Land 862-896 Grand Master of the School of Magic 896-912 Alfonso de Belcadiz b.655 d.991 Supreme Judge of the Council 912-991 Warden of Marches 937-991 Carnelia de Belcadiz b.812 Vice-Queen of Monteleone 991- Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:38:14 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Ellerovyn House of Ellerovyn, Version 2 Split in Alfheim In AC 700 old king Celedryl had died in Alfheim. There was two prominent contender for the throne: Doriath and Charan, both former advisors of king Celedryl and both from the Erewan clan. Their own clan was evenly divided between their supporters, but among other clans Doriath was looked more favourably because of his more neutral attitude to different clans. So the result was a defeat for Charan. At first it seemed that he would accept the decision. He however bear a grudge not against Doriath but against the other clans who had refused to support him. His pride couldn't stand to stay in Alfheim as a "might-have-been-a-king". He search a place to go. At last he thought about the Highlands behind the Broken Lands. There were already elves, although not like the elves in Alfheim, but elves anyhow and they might need help fighting against humans in the area. Charan informed closest friends and relatives about his decision to go there. He was greatly surprised when they all said that they would come with him. At the end nearly all of his Erewan supporters left with him. It took nearly ten years for them all to get there with all the planning and fighting on the way. They left Alfheim at the fall of 700 and then they stayed over 2 years in the area of Corunglain before they made their first attempt in summer 703. They get through only at their third attempt in summer 709 and arrived to forests of Belcadiz-elves at the winter of 709-710. First Years In Highlands Those ten years changed Charan somewhat. He looked older than his 168 years would assume, he was more matured, determined and he was more modest, although his pride wouldn't have allowed him to recall the trip during the harsh years in Darokin. Charan contacted immediately Don Manuel de Belcadiz, leader of the local elves and acknowledged his authority and asked a permission to settle amongst his elves. The alliance between two elven clan was seal in AC 712 when Don Manuel's eldest son Don Fernando married Charan's younger sister Charlena. Two young elves had fell in love immediately after their first meeting two years earlier, but it had taken some time to convince the leaders of the desirability of this marriage. Charan had immediately liked don Fernando and his father, but there were other elves at both side who needed persuasion. Don Fernando's younger brother don Alfonso was one who they couldn't persuade to accept the marriage. Also for some reason both Charan and don Alfonso immediately disliked each other. At the same year Don Manuel and Charan decided that the area was too crowded for both elven groups. Don Manuel proposed that the Erewan elves would move to the woods between Vesubia and Red River were there was living only a few Flaemish woodcutters. Unfortunately Don Manuel didn't even thought about asking the Flaems what was their opinion. Immediately after the Erewan elves had moved there, the Flaemish lords declared that the truce was broken and began raiding again. Brunt of the raids were targeted towards the Belcadiz elves and in AC 717 Don Manuel fell defending newly established city of New Alvar. Skirmishing between the elves and the Flaemish continued for the 13 years. Erewans also get their part of raids but whereas Belcadiz-elves retaliated, Erewans usually only harassed the Flaems when they were returning and not followed them to their areas. Coming of the settlers from the Alasiayan land in 730 was a lucky strike for the elves. Charan realised immediately their value and supported Don Fernando against the other elven leaders, when Don Fernando had promised settlers a safe route through the elven lands. All skirmishes with the Flaems ended. During the next 56 years there was a peace in Erewan lands. There were some humanoid raids from Broken Lands, but nothing serious. Like Don Fernando Charan also refused to take any part in wars amongst humans. During those years there were build tower of Ellerovyn in AC 754 and town of Erendyl in AC 766. Charan also in AC 756 at last announced his marriage to his distant cousin, Meralia. They have been dating already over one hundred years and some elder relatives had already begun to worry if they would ever marry. War years When Joachim von Drachenfels approached personally Don Fernando de Belcadiz in 786, Don Fernando immediately called also Charan Erewan and other leaders of the Erewan-elves to negotiation. Charan realised soon that Don Fernando have to join with Joachim and his allies because of the pressure from Don Alfonso and younger generation. Charan had no desire for war or meddling with human affairs, but in the end he also decided that his elves would join the fight. He made this decision only because he wanted to reserve the elven solidarity. Charan decided to lead personally his troops. During the fighting in the next two years Charan and Don Alfonso de Belcadiz lead elven troops in the field. Whereas Belcadizian elves fought in hand-to-hand with human troops, Erewan elves were used as longbowmen and in surprise attacks behind the enemy lines. During these years Charan and Don Alfonso developed reluctant respect for each others abilities as warleaders: Don Alfonso was great inspirational leader, who was always with his troops in the forefront, whereas Charan was more planner and strategist. After the Battle of Braastar and the death of Joachim von Drachenfels, Charan stayed in Braastar and take part in the negotiations of the future with Don Fernando. Charan was not very sorry about the death of Joachim, during the last two years he had seen through him and he hadn't liked what he saw. Charan was also very worried when Don Fernando told him during the negotiations that it was his opinion that the elves should join the humans in one state. Charan understood Don Fernandos reasoning, but he didn't like the idea. He also realised that if Belcadiz-elves join the humans, Erewans couldn't stay out. So in the end he had to agree with Don Fernando. So settler leaders were positively surprised when two elven leaders announced their willingness to join the Republic of Highlands. When the Republic was announced Charan took the other elven seat in the new Council of the State. After Halzunthram's coup Charan was imprisoned with Don Fernando and three Flaemish council members. Charan was furious of this and blamed partly Don Fernando of the happening. This would have never happened if they had stayed out of the affairs of the humans. This was first major friction between Charan and Don Fernando. After Don Alfonso had rescued them Charan's attitude softened a bit towards Don Fernando, but anyhow he had decided that he don't want to have anymore dealings with humans. During the 40-years war rebel leaders knew the attitude of Charan, so they tried persuade only Belcadiz-elves to join them. Charan refused to join the fighting still when Don Fernando join the rebels in 806 because of the dwarven troops fighting at Halzunthram's side. Only after Don Fernando's personal appeal to him in AC 808 Charan joined the fighting. He still keep his troops out of the major battles and concentrated only to defend Erewans own areas. Before entering the war Charan mostly concentrated building defences against possible attack. Also in AC 793 his son Celedrin was born. Years after war This time when the negotiations begun after the war the two elven leaders both agreed that they should stay out of the human affairs. Next years were quiet for Charan and his elves. He was of course shocked when he heard about the death of Lord Alexander Glantri in 835. Charan was not happy with Don Fernando's decision to join the principalities after the negotiations with Friedrich von Drachenfels, because he had very great doubts about the state ruled by human magic-users. He saw them as a chaotic bunch of individuals who would probably quarrel with each other about every possible issue. But this time he also realised that his elves would be in a troubles if they stay alone so in the end he accepted Don Fernando's decision and announced Erewans willingness also to join the principalities. Charan now took a seat in the House as a Marquis of Ellerovyn so that there would be at least one voice for some orderliness. He didn't also exactly like the decision to include most of the Erewan areas in the new Principality of Belcadiz. He was afraid that at the long run there would be difficulties between two elven groups. If you leave politics out everything seemed to be fine. But then came the dark clouds. Charan had been happy for his sister and Don Fernando when they had their child at last in 858. Dona Charlena told immediately to his brother about problems with Don Carlo when they become to show up. And after Don Fernando had announced that his son Don Carlo had died and Dona Charlena had told to Charan his suspicions about the death, Charan directly demanded Don Fernando to explain what had happened. This was last straw for Don Fernando, he refused to speak about the matter and two elven leaders never spoke to each other after this. And when Dona Charlena died in orc ambush in 869 all was lost. First Charan could only protest in the House about the treatment of his elves in the hands of Don Alfonso in elven Principality. Only after the enfeoffment of Nouvelle Averoigne and Klantyre in 875 Charan realised what he must do. He began to lobby for an other elven Principality for Erewan elves. Principality of Erewan The reason behind the creation of Principality of Erewan was not so much Charans work for it but the results of the investigations against the alleged misconducts of the ruling Belcadiz-elves against the Erewans. Chancellor Friedrich von Drachenfels was appalled at the results. His support for the division was a decisive factor. Don Fernando de Belcadiz was of course most prominent opponent. In the summer of 884 Charan Erewan found himself member of the ruling Council. At first the Council was somewhat unsure what kind of a charge they should give to Charan. But then Robert McGregor pointed that there was Fort Ylourgne, which was the only major fort in Glantri that was not in direct control of the Council. They should take its control from Etienne d'Ambreville and made Charan as Viceroy of Ylourgne. Most of the Princes agreed with this, they could give a snap to arrogant Etienne. Etienne of course was not happy with this, but Friedrich von Drachenfels reasoned personally with him and managed to calmed him. Charan was not happy at all with this because Ylourgne was so far away. He would have rather stayed without any charge. Council meetings were not so difficult to Charan as he had imagined beforehand. Don Fernando was mostly away tending his duties as the Chamberlain of the Land and they actually met only 5 times during the next 12 years. These were busy years for Charan. He had to divide his time between Council meetings, Fort Ylourgne and creating some kind of infrastructure to his Principality. New Charges Year 896 meant promotion also to Charan Erewan. That year was busy for Council. First died Supreme Judge Toktai Virayana I and then disappeared Castle d'Ambreville and all the d'Ambrevilles. Race for the two highest position was on. Charan watched the humans amazed, he was again disgusted at their power-hungriness. The choice of a new Grandmaster was easy, because everyone acknowledged that Don Fernando de Belcadiz was most able for that charge. But then nearly everyone else wanted to be new Supreme Judge; only Charan and Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany refused to compete. After much behind-the-scenes discussions current Treasurer Kenneth McGregor was chosen. Charan's election as new Chamberlain of the Land after Don Fernando was nearly unanimous; for Charan's great dismay Don Fernando was against this. Charan was satisfied with his new charge. He haven't been content with his viceroyship, he didn't like stone castles or any castles. Now he could done something more suitable for him. When he got engrossed in his duties he was surprised when realised just how good Don Fernando has been in that job. His respect for his brother-in-law was somewhat restored. Soon after becoming Chamberlain, 902 to be exact, Charan found the Radiance. He began to study this strange phenomena and become absorbed with it. He soon found the dangers of these studies, when in very short time his both feet got a withering disease and he lost his ability to walk normally. He continued to tend his duties as Chamberlain but for now on he always moved on horseback if outside or with levitate spell if inside. He continued to be Chamberlain until the crisis with Grandmaster Johann von Drachenfels in 957. When it was decided that the Council should remove Johann from the charge Charan immediately announced his candidacy. Charan had long gone realised that if he wanted to continue his studies with the Radiance, he must get rid of Chamberlainship and now he realised that as a Grandmaster he would have all the utilities of the School in his disposal. Charan was chosen because there was no better alternative. Of course Supreme Judge Don Alfonso de Belcadiz was most prominent opponent. As a Grandmaster Charan was mostly concentrated in studying the Radiance. He left administrative and teaching duties mostly to his aides. Students only saw him at the beginning and the end of the terms. During the years other personnel of the School saw his health gradually weakening, as his strange disease slowly spread. At last in 973 Charan delved too deep and he was turned a zombie-like creature by Radiance. Before he could flee from the School the other mages who didn't recognise him anymore managed to destroy the unknown undead. At the age of 431 Charan Erewan had disappeared like his predecessor Johann von Drachenfels. Celedrin Erewan Celedrin was 180-years old when he followed his father as a Prince of Erewan. He has seen his father's strange disease spreading and had been afraid that it would kill him, but this sudden disappearance was totally unexpected. Celedrin wasn't totally inexperienced in governing, although he hadn't shown any interest to it. Still he had some natural charisma and was very likeable. Some of the "older" princes liked his boyish manners. Celedrin was chosen as Viceroy of Ylourgne. He was at first delighted because he liked to do something new. He was however very soon bored with the fort and spend more time in Broken lands fighting with the humanoids there. So the five years Celedrin was Viceroy of Ylourgne went fast enough and 978 he was chosen as a new Chamberlain after Georg von Drachenfels. Celedrin find this charge more suitable for him because of the variance of the duties. Still he could enjoy the charge only for 5 years. In 983 Celedrin was killed by humanoid raiders in the age of only 190 years. Carlotina Erewan Celedrin's successor was his 172-years old wife Carlotina. Their two boys were still too young to become a Prince. Carlotina was also chosen to continue his husbands duties as a Chamberlain. Summary Charan Erewan b.542 d.973 First Marquis of Ellerovyn First Prince of Erewan Viceroy of Ylourgne 884-896 Chamberlain of the Land 896-957 Grand master of the School of Magic 957-973 Celedrin Erewan b.793 d.983 Viceroy of Ylourgne 973-978 Chamberlain of the Land 978-983 Carlotina Erewan b.811 Chamberlain of the Land 983-1004 Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #135 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 136 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... Re: [MYSTARA] - "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - New PBEM RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:49:49 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OK: "Metaphysics" OK,I dug up a copy of GAZ3 and took a look at the Radiance rules. Well, the problem with GAZ3 in general is that it covers so much so little. That is, there's all kinds of great stuff in it, but most of it is not very detailed. It was the same with the Radiance stuff. There's a 1% chance per casting of a Radiance spell, that you'll rot a body part. Now really, I think that's not quite harsh enough. And there're no duration-related chances... Really, this is not good enough for me. I have no PC's using the Radiance, but these rules definitely need to reflect the inherent dangers far better than this. Retain Power really needs to be far more dangerous than it is... Oh, well, given time someone will probably flesh this out (and I don't have time right now...). : ) Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:53:03 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Hi there, I've written up some troop movements for the years AC 1010-1013 based on the Almanacs. They include army statistics (in War Machine format) and an overview of what armies are fighting each other at what date. Some of the armies have been made up (no statistics available) while the rest come from the Almanac material. Would you like me to post this on the MML ?!? Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:58:46 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elf words >> Maybe they're right. But if you see those guys again, tell them to read The >> Silmarillion. If they pass the first hundred pages, they'll reconsider what >> they said about DL (which sucks big time :-). FYI, I've read The >> Silmarillion about 7 times. :-) >Whoha! I only read it once so far. :) But then again, I'm crazy. :) >> > Doesnt every world have those guys these days? And Legolas, an elven >> archer? Thats such a cliché. :( >> How do you play that elven archer, that's what makes a difference to me. >That is a good point. But its important to realize that not all elves are >archers either. Any personal Mystaran [on topic] experiences on this? The few elves I came across were elven archers --most of them chaotic in nature. Bungo *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 13:04:29 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Jacob Skytte wrote: > Hi there, > > I've written up some troop movements for the years AC 1010-1013 based > on the Almanacs. They include army statistics (in War Machine format) > and an overview of what armies are fighting each other at what date. > Some of the armies have been made up (no statistics available) while > the rest come from the Almanac material. Would you like me to post > this on the MML ?!? > Yes, definitely post it. This will be extremely useful to me in my own campaign right now, and I've been dreading having to gather all the information myself. Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 21:18:35 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters I normally play characters which are a (albeit idealized) reflection of my RW self: MUs (specialists, when I play AD&D) with a bitter sense of humour and a disposition to studying ancient civilizations. My favorite Mystara character is Annecians de Skie, an Alphatian mage from the Kingdom of Ambur; he is a theater stage director (I invented the Stage Mage kit for him) who insulted some powerful aristocrats and made a run out of the empire, visiting Thyatis, Karameikos, Ylaruam, Wendar and Glantri. He is STR 7 INT 18 WIS 13 DEX 9 CON 11 CHA 13 and is presently 8th level. I usually portray him as myself (I was a stage director for some time) and even pieced his past together from cutscenes of my own life (my felow players normally do the same). Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 14:32:25 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue Shortly following the fall of Nithia the Alphatians discovered the islands south of the Island of Dawn, including some rich in pearls, which they christened the Pearl Islands and decided to add to their Empire along with the others. Most of the small communities on the Alatian islands submitted or fled without much fuss. The Nuari on the Pearl islands proved to be another matter, and they would not submit to the Alphatians like the other islanders, and at first remained neutral. But when the Alphatians attacked and plundered their territory, the Nuaris prepaired to defend themselves from the Alphatians. When the Alphatian forces gathered to conquer the Pearl Islands, sending an army into the largest of them, the Nuari sent a couple of envoys to negotiate with the Alphatian generals, to try to reason with them. The Alphatian representatives greeted them as follows: Alphatians: "Since these negotiations will not take place in front of your entire people, so that we may not be able to speak without interuption, and beguile everyone by selective arguments which would not be responded to (for we know that this is why you are meeting with us alone)! Do not make a speech yourselves, but listen to what we say and question any part you do not like, and we will settle that before going any farther. But first tell us if this is acceptable." The Nuari delegation answered: Nuari: "We don't object to such a dialogue. It sounds fair to us. But your fleet and war engines show you have not come here to talk. We see you have already decided what you are going to do, and that all we can reasponably expect from this negotiation is war, if we prove to have right on our side and refuse to submit, or if we surrender, then enslavement by you." Alphatians: "If you have met to talk about alternatives, or for anything else other than than to discuss the survival of your nation confronted by the army that you see before you, there is nothing to discuss; otherwise, we will continue." Nuari: "It is natural and excusable for men in our position to try and persuade you of alternatives to war. However, the question in this conference is, as you say, the safety of our country, and the discussion, if you please, can proceed in the way which you propose." Alphatians: "We shall not trouble you with specious pretenses -- either of how we have a right to our empire because we superseeded the Thothians, or that we are attacking you because of wrong that you have done us. We will not make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did us no wrong, will aim at what is practical, arguing the real interests of us both; since you know as well as we do that morality, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power. The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Nuari: "We think it is expedient -- speaking as you ask, since you don't want us to discuss moral right alone and want us to talk only of practical interest -- that you should not eliminate what is our common protection, namely the privilege of being allowed when in danger to invoke the cosmic order and justice, and even to profit by arguments that are not based on self interest if they can be persuasive. You are as dependent on morality in this as any, because otherwise your Empire's fall would be a cause for the heaviest vengeance and an example for the world to meditate upon." Alphatians: "The end of our empire, if it should end, does not frighten us. The possibility of a rival empire is not worse than the likelyhood that our vanquished subjects would try to revolt and overpower us, their rulers, if we showed weakness. This is a risk that we will not take in the name of abstract virtues. We will now prove to you that we have come here in the interest of our empire, and for the preservation of your country you will listen; as we desire to excersise our authority over you without trouble, and see you are preserved for the good of us both." Nuari: "And how, pray, coud it turn out as good for us to serve you as for you to rule us?" Alphatians: "Because you would have the advantage of submitting before suffering destruction, and we should gain slaves by not destroying you." Nuari: "What if we offered to be neutral, or your friends instead of enemies, even your allies?" Alphatians: "No; for your hostility cannot hurt us much while your friendship in a state of independence will be an argument to our subjects of the possibility of resisting us, and your enmity of our power will inspire them to revolt." Nuari: "Is that your subjects' idea of fairness, to put those who have nothing to do with you in the same category with people that are mostly your own colonists and conquered slaves?" Alphatians: "As far as fairness and justice go they think everyone has as much right to it as anyone else, and that if any stay independent from us it can only be because they are strong enough to do so. So if we do not molest someone it must be because we are afraid; so that besides extending our empire we should gain in security by your subjegation. The fact that you are Mystarans and weaker than Alphatians renders it all the more important that you should not succeed in thwarting wishes of the masters of Air magic in gaining anything we desire." Nuari: "But don't you see that there is no lasting security in the policy which you describe? For here again if you don't want us to talk about justice and invite us to obey your interest, we must try to show that our interest and yours are the same. How can you avoid making everyone your enemy, encouraging all existing neutral peoples who shall look at how you treated us and conclude that one day or another you will attack them as well? Your policy will only make your current enemies hate you more, and force others to fight you when otherwise they never have opposed you?" Alphatians: "Why, the fact is that the distant Mystarans generally give us little to fear; they go about their affairs with little awareness of what we do. This will prevent them from taking precautions against us. It is only nearby islanders such as yourselves, outside our empire, and the subjects smarting under our lash, who would be the most likely to take a rash step and lead themselves and us into obvious danger by opposing us if we allowed you to be an example to them of the possibility of resisting our will." Nuari: "Well then, if you forswear justice to retain your empire, and your subjects would prefer to be free of it, it would surely be greatly ignoble and cowardly for us who are still free not to try everything that we can before submitting to your yoke." Alphatians: "Not if you are smart and realize that the contest is not equal. It is not honor which is at stake here, it is your self-preservation. It would be foolish to resist those who are far stronger than you are." Nuari: "But we know that the fortune of war is sometimes more impartial mere disproportion of power might make you think; to submit is to give up all hope, while resistance still preserves for us a hope that we may live free on our feet rather than serve on our knees." Alphatians: "Hope comforts the brave, and it may be indulged in by those who are rich and powerful, if not without loss then at least without being ruined. But hope is available to anyone, and those who go so far as to stake their very lives upon hope see its worthlessness only when it is to late and they face ruin. Hope will be of little comfort when it is put to the test. Do not let yourself be deluded by hope, because you are weak and your survival hangs by a thread. Do not be like the vulgar, who abandon reality when practical resources are lacking they turn to the invisible, to prophets and clerics, and other such inventions that delude men as they march to their own destruction." Nuari: "You may be sure that we are as well aware as you of the difficulty of fighting against your power and magic. We know the odds are not equal. But we trust that the Immortals may favor us, since we are the just fighting against the unjust. What we lack in power will be made up by the alliance of the Mystaran nations, who are bound, if only for fear of what will happen when you reach them, to come to the aid of their kindred. Our confidence, therefore, after all is not so utterly irrational." Alphatians: "When you speak of the favor of your Immortals, we may as fairly hope for that as you. Our pretentions and our conduct are what men believe of the Immortals, or practice among themselves. Of the Immortals we believe, and of men we know, that by a necessary law of their nature they rule wherever they can. We did not make this law, and we are not the first to act upon it. This law existed before us, and shall exist forever. We only make use of it, knowing that you and everybody else, if they had the same power as we have, would do the same as we do. Thus, as far as the Immortals are concerned, we have no reason to fear that we shall be at a disadvantage. But then we come to your notion that the Mystaran nations will come to your aid. Here we bless your simplicity but we do not envy your folly. The Mystarans only act when their own intersts or their nation's survival are in question. They are barbarians who only face a threat when it is clearly at their own doorstep. They rationalize their behavior and consider what is agreeable to them honorable and what is expedient just. This a way of thinking will cause them to come up with excuses not to help you. Expecting their help does not promise the safety which you now unreasonably count upon." Nuari: "But it is for this very reason that we now trust to their respect for expediency to prevent them from forsaking us, their compatriots, and thus through inaction helping you, their enemies, in conquering Mystara." Alphatians: "Then you do not adopt the view that expediency goes with security, while justice and honor cannot be followed without danger; and danger is something the Mystaran nations generally avoid as much as possible." Nuari: "But we believe that they are likely to face even danger in our lands now, with more confidence than if they wait to face your armies in their own lands later. Our common Mystaran heritage insures our mutual faithfulness." Alphatians: "Yes, but what an intending ally trusts to is not the goodwill of those who ask for his aid, but some benifit for their efforts, like a new school of magecraft, and the possibility of success. The Mystarans look upon us and see that we are stronger. Now, is it likely that while we are masters of magic they will cross over the sea to help you fight us?" Nuari: "But they would have numbers to send, and would overwhelm you." Alphatians: "Something like what you suggest you may one day experience, only to learn, as others have, that the Alphatians never once yet were defeated by any Mystaran barbarians. But we are struck by the fact, that after saying you would negotiate for the safety of your country, in all this discussion you have mentioned nothing which might persuade us. Your strongest arguments depend upon hope of outside aid, moral justice, and possible future danger to us, and your own resources are too scanty when compared to ours for you to resist us. You will therefore show great blindness of judgement, unless, after this meeting ends, you can find some argument more practical than this. If you are wise, you will not think it disgraceful to submit to the greatest Empire, when it makes you the moderate offer of becoming its slaves, still living in the islands you love. Nor, when you have the choice given you between death and slavery, will you be so blind as to choose the worst. Think about what we have said after our discussion, and reflect once again that it is for your people that you are negotiating, and that you have only one nation, and that upon this one deliberation depends its survival or ruin." (Adapted from "The Landmark Thucydides," pp.351-356 edited by Robert B. Strassler.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:50:21 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >>Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was actually >>my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're >>beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. >>Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first >>character? >> >What I do alot, is whenever I run across a new game world is imagine what I >would >do if I ever wound up there. Well either me, or someone very much like me. :) > So... you always play human chars? Bungo churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:56:52 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Prologue I > On a related note, does anyone have any favorite heroes (preferably >who didn't obtain immortality) that they would like to see involved in >some of these temporal hijinks? I don't think a powerful hin in Norworld would fit, right? :-) Anyway, I enjoyed reading your post very much! Bungo Cervezarrubia churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:59:21 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Noble titles >> BTW, does every character in a Glantrian campaign has to be a magic user? > >No, but in my one yes. Clerics are highly illegal until ****ac, fighters >and thieves necessarily wouldn't wish to stay in Glantri for life. The >mysteries and plotlines are designed for elves and mages, or trasonous >clerics. > Would my PC stand a chance *not* to be adopted as a familiar? :) >> >colonies. Another thing is that Norwold is a melting pot of Thyatian, >> >Alphatian and Heldannic settlers, which makes a difference also. >> And don't forget the Republic of Leeha and all the hin who live there! > >We only count white free men here. :) > Hey! We're the best cooks! Bungo Cervezarrubia churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:04:38 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >Actually, my first char was the test-fighter in the D&D Basic Player's >Book, which isn't the best example of role-playing IMO, though a good >intro to game mechanics. I can't even remember when I first made up a >truly original char but I have never played myself. I'm not saying that the PC's stats has to reflect yourself, just the class/alignment/philosophy that's more like yourself. I love to cook and to eat (though I don't smoke) and play music. Plus, I hate sports. That's a halfling alright! >I wonder how that >would look - STR 3, INT 17, CHR 4-7, DEX 6 or so, CON ???, WIS ??? - >pretty gosh-darn pathetic. If you look at the AD&D attrbitutes tables [I know, AD&D sux] there are plenty of abilities relating to the attributes... like weight-lifting and such. So it's not that hard to get YOUR stats! >Then again, being short might have helped me >appreciate dwarves and halflings more :) OTOH, I'm pretty tall, so my halfling-ness is more concealed! :) Bungo Cervezarrubia (PC) Carlos Yoder (real life --sort of) churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:25:27 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters >My first character was called Kong (King) Kylie (that's conch in >english, I think); he was an elf that I played for three years, who >eventually attained immortality in the sphere of energy. Only in three years? Wow! I've been playing for 6 years now, and I'm still at 1.500.000 xp. >He went through all kinds of rules supplements we made up, and ended >his mortal life as a 36th-level Elven fighter with all kinds of >spells and weird abilities, and had numbers for the six senses (five >+ sixth sense). It was great fun. : ) I didn't understand half of that, but it surely was fun. Hey, and this elf, had he anything like you? Bungo Cervezarrubia churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 17:20:53 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >My first characters was a strong warrior called Glaivdor ("GoldenSword") >who was very strong (18 i think) but as inteligent as a cow ... >Nevertheless he spent his life to run after goblins and Kobold near >Highforge ... and died after having insulted a red Dragon (a little one) >... But that character had anything like you? Bungo Cervezarrubia churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 00:06:55 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters > My first character was called Kong (King) Kylie (that's conch in > english, I think); he was an elf that I played for three years, who > eventually attained immortality in the sphere of energy. He survived As you mentioned the lvl36, that means one level per month of real time! Swift, I say... :) This is slightly off-topic, but my third RQ character is still active and living, after eight years of playing. I believe that in D&D he would be on 36th by now -- advancement in RQ is greatly different thing. In my way of mastering games, only the path of Paragon would probably take a year or a few to complete -- in addition to getting to level 20 to begin it! - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 20:26:19 EST From: "Daskal, N." Subject: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... >The boardgame part is fun, but very time-consuming, and requires you >to keep track of a large number of armies; their personnel, fatigue, >etc., but it can be great fun as new armies are introduced in places >you naver expected and you set up all kinds of fun battles >(Ethengarians vs. Minrothad Guilds ?!?). Once more the proud lurker will point out that he has written a computerization of the War Machine part of X10. Check out http://people.delphi.com/ndaskal/redarrow.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:17:27 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... > I've seen many things on oards and time travell ... Aren't oards >destroyed at the end of CM8 ? I thought they were ... Now wouldn't it be a waste of such a unique of insidious villian to let them go out like that? Anyway, the only Oard that are destroyed in CM8 are the Aelosi. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephan Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 19:46:55 -0500 From: Sean Curtin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - "Metaphysics" Jacob Skytte wrote: > There's a 1% chance per casting of a Radiance spell, that you'll rot > a body part. Now really, I think that's not quite harsh enough. And > there're no duration-related chances... These ideas for making the Radiance more dangerous came to me: 1. The chance of rotting a body part becomes 1% per spell level. 2. Instead of a flat 1% chance of rotting one body part, roll 1d100 on this table: 01 Caster must make a system shock roll; success indicates that the caster becomes a lich, failure indicates that the caster dies 02-03 Caster is permanently paralyzed (can only be healed by a Wish) 04-07 Caster rots an entire body part 08-13 Caster weakens a body part (leg: movement slowed by 3; hand/arm: Strength score reduced by 2; torso: Constitution reduced by 3; head: Intelligence & Wisdom both reduced by 4 and caster loses all currently memorized spells) 14-100 No effect 3. The chance remains 1%, CUMULATIVE PER SPELL. On the tenth spell, the chance is 10%; on the thirtieth, the chance is 30%. Kind DMs might want to reset the percentage chance after the caster fails a roll; otherwise, he'll eventually lose a body part with every Radiance spell that he casts. (On the other hand, this would be an excellent incentive to cast Transcend Life Force...) Sean Curtin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:37:16 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >>>Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was >actually my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first >>>character? I always tried to be a radically different person when I played; this was probably easier for me than a regular player, as I usually was a DM, and most of my PCs only lasted a few months real-time (but made for colourful NPCs). Let's see, I was a gnomish shaman (Lesliuke, from the prologue), a dwarf that laughed at anything anyone said, an alcoholic nagpa, a thief/werefox that pretended he was a mage, and a tortle that swore by its shell that it was prophisied to one day rule the world and usher in a new era for the "hardbacks." One character that I've kept and still use semi-reguarly is a mystic/merchant (from the Darokin gaz); I know they seem incongruent, but the mystic's cloister was having some financil difficulties, so my PC decided to become a merchant to increase the wealth. It turned out rather well when the special abilities came rolling in: being able to speak to anything is a huge bonus to an aspiring world mogul, and mind blank was invaluable when enemy mages tried to convinve me to part with my goods. He's now a 14th level mystic, 16th level merchant, and doesn't really act like me: I like the mercantile trade, but I certainly don't live any asetic standard like he does. On the other hand, we do have sort of a similar outlook on life. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:04:54 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New PBEM A new PBEM has been set up, based around the Savage Baronies and Hule. Several positions are still open for players, including all the temples! Anyone interested, surf the website at http://www.image.dk/~jaervosz/index.html If anyone aspires to rule a junta, then look no further... :) Cheerz Rob the DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:52:36 +0100 From: "Laszko van Kessel (DSN)" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Sharon Dornhoff wrote >>As for naming these folks in non-English-speaking campaigns, maybe there's a Sanskrit word-root for "wanderers" or "travelers", that could be used as a basis for the M-Roms' name in other IRL languages. Anybody know the URL of a lexicon for Sanskrit?<< I don't know a lexicon on the web, but I do know some sanskrit words: bhram = to wander janah = people/folk marga = road shapah = curse bahih = outside nis = without param = town So we can make the following names (of course they are not correct sanskrit): bhramjanah = the wander people bhramter/bhramtri = wanderer bahijanah = outside people margajanah = roadfolk shapahjanah = curse(d)people nisparam = without town One of them might be a good substitute, although I like Dom the most. By the way this Dom article was great. But is there going to be something about the Dom travel runes. RL Gypsies have their own signs to tell other Gypsies that the place is dangerous, a house of friends and so on. The Five Shires Halfling runes are a lot like these signs. Swatantra *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:37:14 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MYSTARA] - Just a question ... >>The boardgame part is fun, but very time-consuming, and requires you >>to keep track of a large number of armies; their personnel, fatigue, >>etc., but it can be great fun as new armies are introduced in places >>you naver expected and you set up all kinds of fun battles >>(Ethengarians vs. Minrothad Guilds ?!?). > Once more the proud lurker will point out that he has written a > computerization of the War Machine part of X10. Check out Yeah, I've seen it, proud lurker. It might make life a bit easier, but the interface wasn't too great...sorry, just my opinion. :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #136 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 137 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - "Metaphysics" Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Knights: a Reasessment. RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Universities Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:42:45 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters >> My first character was called Kong (King) Kylie (that's conch in >> english, I think); he was an elf that I played for three years, who >> eventually attained immortality in the sphere of energy. He survived > As you mentioned the lvl36, that means one level per month of real time! > Swift, I say... :) True, but we played for at least two hours each day, more when we had time for it. During holidays we practically played every day from 10.00 to 22.00, twelve hours per day. > In my way of mastering games, only the path of Paragon would probably > take a year or a few to complete -- in addition to getting to level 20 to > begin it! Yeah, my mastering is somewhat like that too, but this was loong ago, and we really wanted to try it out before I left the country! Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:50:57 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters >>My first character was called Kong (King) Kylie (that's conch in >>english, I think); he was an elf that I played for three years, who >>eventually attained immortality in the sphere of energy. > > Only in three years? Wow! I've been playing for 6 years now, and I'm still > at 1.500.000 xp. Yeah, but see my reply to Markus in another post. > >He went through all kinds of rules supplements we made up, and ended > >his mortal life as a 36th-level Elven fighter with all kinds of > >spells and weird abilities, and had numbers for the six senses (five > >+ sixth sense). It was great fun. : ) > > I didn't understand half of that, but it surely was fun. Hey, and this elf, > had he anything like you? We made up all kinds of rules for all eventualities; at one time I think I had ability scores like Str 30, Dex 47, Con 40, etc. That's when we met all kinds of weird undead that drained ability scores, and eventually I was back to normal. :) I played my character like a very smart and wise person, who always thought twice before doing anything, and who was the conscience as well as the driving force in the party. I'm not so sure that this was anything like me at the time. It might have been a hidden side of me that I tapped into...sort of like an ideal me. BTW I was directly opposed to a dwarf in the same party, called Edwin, who always rushed into every situation, stole and made merry at every opportunity and always got ridiculed for being such a short, dumb dwarf...the first character of another player. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:52:31 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > Jacob Skytte wrote: > >> Hi there, >> >> I've written up some troop movements for the years AC 1010-1013 based >> on the Almanacs. They include army statistics (in War Machine format) >> and an overview of what armies are fighting each other at what date. >> Some of the armies have been made up (no statistics available) while >> the rest come from the Almanac material. Would you like me to post >> this on the MML ?!? >> > > Yes, definitely post it. This will be extremely useful to me in my own campaign > right now, and I've been dreading having to gather all the information myself. I'll probably have it ready in a readable format after the weekend...hope you can wait till then. :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:57:14 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - "Metaphysics" >> There's a 1% chance per casting of a Radiance spell, that >> you'll rot a body part. Now really, I think that's not quite >> harsh enough. And there're no duration-related chances... > These ideas for making the Radiance more dangerous came to me: > > 3. The chance remains 1%, CUMULATIVE PER SPELL. On the tenth spell, > the chance is 10%; on the thirtieth, the chance is 30%. Kind DMs > might want to reset the percentage chance after the caster fails a > roll; otherwise, he'll eventually lose a body part with every Radiance > spell that he casts. (On the other hand, this would be an excellent > incentive to cast Transcend Life Force...) I like this one, though I think the chance should increase by 1% cumulatively per time period (such as 24 hours, 1 week, or 1 month) of spells having durations [such as the permanent spell Retain Power :)]. And there should be a check for rotting each time the percentage rises, or something like that. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:37:12 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: First characters >In my way of mastering games, only the path of Paragon would probably >take a year or a few to complete -- in addition to getting to level 20 to >begin it! That means you're lazy? :) Bungo Cervezarrubia churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:10:20 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:45:29 CET "Herve Musseau" Wrote: > >Mystara FAQ > >version 6.0 by Hervé Musseau >[...] Heya Hervé. I see you took some of Johnathon's comments to heart and updated the FAQ here and there. It's looking pretty good. I just had an Idea that I'd share and see what everyone thought -- you know how some FAQ's are divided into sections, and the sections are then provided in detail at the top of the FAQ so that it's easier for new-comers to locate the particular question they are seeking? Perhaps you should think about doing that for the Mystara FAQ -- it is starting to get quite a number of items. Sometimes these FAQ's get divided into two or more shorter files, arranged by section, in order to better accomodate mail and news servers. Some section headings I can already think of are "Introduction to Mystara" (i.e., the basic "What is Mystara?" type questions), "History of Mystara" (i.e., questions like "Why is Alphatia no longer part of Mystara after AC 1009?"), "Personalities of Mystara" (i.e., questions about individuals, such as Rad, and the Immortals), and (of course) "Miscellaneous", for those topics that don't fit into any other sections. Obviously you could invent more section headings, or even use different ones altogether. Anyway, it was just an idea about how you might make the FAQ even more useful. Thats all, Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 09:14:16 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom I like these Sanskrit words, but they sound a little too Sindhi...They'd work for the Lomavren, but probably not for the Daro or the Domani. BUT, I think that perhaps a shortening of some of these (i.e., the word evolved as did their language after the split) would work very well for those who need alternate names. Thanks! >By the way this Dom article was great. But is there going to be something >about the Dom travel runes. RL Gypsies have their own signs to tell other >Gypsies that the place is dangerous, a house of friends and so on. The Five >Shires Halfling runes are a lot like these signs. Great idea! I was next going to work on their "information network" (by which word-of-mouth messages get to Dom countries away), but I think I can integrate both ideas. Any deas anyone would like to contribute, I'm game! Jenn Explore Dark Myst Manor! http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 13:57:52 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). Well, when no one else has any comments I'm reduced to commenting on my own crap, so here we go. Porphyrogenetus wrote: > Shortly following the fall of Nithia the Alphatians discovered the > islands south of the Island of Dawn, including some rich in pearls, > which they christened the Pearl Islands and decided to add to their > Empire along with the others. Actually, I couldn't find any mention of when the Alphatians moved in on either the P.I's or the Alatian islands, so I just guessed. I figured that when Nithia *poofed* away and they moved in on the IoD sounded like a suitable time. > Alphatians: "We shall not trouble you with specious pretenses -- > either of how we have a right to our empire because we superseeded the > Thothians, or that we are attacking you because of wrong that you have > done us. Of course they (and everyone else) had forgotten Nithia, so they refer only to Thothia. They retained a vague notion that Thothia was reciently powerful, stable, and worthy of respect (which is why they accept them alone along with themselves as civilized), but they aren't anymore and so the Alphs. moved in to fill the vaccum on the Isle of Dawn. > Nuari: "We think it is expedient -- speaking as you ask, since you > don't want us to discuss moral right alone and want us to talk only of > practical interest -- that you should not eliminate what is our common > protection, namely the privilege of being allowed when in danger to > invoke the cosmic order and justice, and even to profit by arguments > that are not based on self interest if they can be persuasive. You are > as dependent on morality in this as any, because otherwise your Empire's > fall would be a cause for the heaviest vengeance and an example for the > world to meditate upon." First, regarding the Nuari: No, I can't write in a Jamacan accent so I'm not going to try.Second, regarding the Nuari: IMO their personal concern with Excellence and betterment of body and mind would lead them to have a philosophical bent, thus a concern for justice, cosmic order, and other normative virtues. Here and throughout the dialogue they try to show to the Alphatians that these aren't simply abstract notions, but valuable concerns which it would be in the interest of Alphatia to adopt. > Alphatians: "The end of our empire, if it should end, does not > frighten us. The possibility of a rival empire is not worse than the > likelyhood that our vanquished subjects would try to revolt and > overpower us, their rulers, if we showed weakness. Of course, as we know, five centuries later their is a general uprising of their subjects, which does eventually result in the formation of a rival empire. And the Nuari are a part of that revolt/rival empire. And at the time, the Alphatians evidenced grave weakness, which is why both the revolt and the rival empire succeeded. > This is a risk that > we will not take in the name of abstract virtues. We will now prove to > you that we have come here in the interest of our empire, and for the > preservation of your country you will listen; as we desire to excersise > our authority over you without trouble, and see you are preserved for > the good of us both." The Alphatians understand what the Nuari are trying to say but then argue in the contrary that their self interest is served not by the virtues the Nuari would like them to consider accepting as valid, but by naked power alone, the only means by which they claim, retain, and justify their hegemony. Accepting the Nuari argument would call into question the legitimacy of the Alphatian Empire. Because of this, the Nuari are faced with the only choice the Alphatians find it possible to give: submission/servitude, or elimination (which is highlighted by the subsiquent exchange, which I'll snip for brevity). > Alphatians: "As far as fairness and justice go they think everyone > has as much right to it as anyone else, and that if any stay independent > from us it can only be because they are strong enough to do so. The Alphatians argue that their subjects understand that if one is left free, then all should have the same option/right. This is eventually rather compelling. When the "rival Empire" is formed, at first an attempt is made to govern it on the same basis of legitimacy that the Alphatian Empire ruled. This proves unstable, and after 20 years a new basis is sought. That new basis becomes Valentia's Citizenship Proclamation, which transforms the Thyatian Empire into a realm of member-states with input from the populace. The idea of a government which derives its legitimacy from the consent of the governed is (re) born on Mystara. This is why, contrary to what some would hope to adopt, the modern Mystaran calendar begins not with the Alphatians, but with the Thyatians. From this point on the Alphatian Empire is somewhat anachronistic. Only in Dunadale does a similar political philosophy take root, though in some parts of Alphatia (Stonewall, Greenspur) the old traditions do begin to weaken some. Still, on the whole, the Alphatian Empire remains bound to the doctrine of the strong ruling where they can and the weak suffering what they must, and is thus an anachronism. Most KW nations seem to derive their political legitimacy from some version of the Thyatian philosophy, where the rulers govern at least as stewards (responsible not only for their own betterment, but for the welfare of those they rule as well), and often with some sort of input from the governed (Darokinian Republicanism, for instance). The fact that by AC 1000 Thyatis itself has an often corrupt government means that it, too, is by then deficient by its *own* standards at this time; though anyone can become Emperor, and the current Emperor does what he can to strengthen the Empire for the good of it, popular input is negligable (hereditary nobles appoint much of the Senate, and though other portions are elected one can assume that one element of governmental corruption means that these elections are often rigged/bought.) However, because Thyatis *does* have the Valentian ideal, the possibility of undergoing a renewal/restoration (a Thyatian Reformation) and living up to its own ideals remains. The interesting thing is the comment in the DotE DM Sourcebook regarding the Pearl Islands (and Ochalea) being offered vollentary admittence into the Thyatian Empire by Valentia, and accepting the offer. > Nuari: "You may be sure that we are as well aware as you of the > difficulty of fighting against your power and magic. We know the odds > are not equal. But we trust that the Immortals may favor us, since we > are the just fighting against the unjust. What we lack in power will be > made up by the alliance of the Mystaran nations, who are bound, if only > for fear of what will happen when you reach them, to come to the aid of > their kindred. Our confidence, therefore, after all is not so utterly > irrational." The interesting thing here is that 15 centuries later, when the Alphatians used much the same doctrine they use here to try and get Glantri to obey its (Alphatias) interest, it was the Thyatian Empire which followed the argument the Nuari use here (steping forward to oppose the Alphatians, allying with and defending Glantri). > the vulgar, who abandon reality when practical resources are lacking > they turn to the invisible, to prophets and clerics, and other such > inventions that delude men as they march to their own destruction." And don't turn to the advice of strange women named "Anya". > Alphatians: "When you speak of the favor of your Immortals, we may > as fairly hope for that as you. Our pretentions and our conduct are what > men believe of the Immortals, or practice among themselves. And that certainly proved to be true. > Alphatians: {redacted} But then we come to your > notion that the Mystaran nations will come to your aid. Here we bless > your simplicity but we do not envy your folly. danger is something the > Mystaran nations generally avoid as much as possible." what an intending > ally trusts to is not the > goodwill of those who ask for his aid, but some benifit for their > efforts, like a new school of magecraft, and the possibility of success. Of course I threw in the jab about the School of Magecraft to show how, fifteen centuries later, the Alphatian's argument was still true: nations often given credit for being paragons of virtue falling all over themselves to betray their allies and avoid the danger of opposing Alphatia, even though (once you abstract the argument between the Immortals, which mortals like Stefan knew nothing of) on the face of it the virtuous thing to do would have been to help defend Glantri from Alphatia's agressions. But there is no virtue in getting killed, so Good King Stefan rationalizes his action, and exchanges his honor for a school of magecraft and a treaty. . . We end up seeing that the Alphatians were right about the Immortals as well, for not only do they end up comming out of the WotI without any consiquences to their reputation among Mortals, but the Immortals jump all over themselves to shower Alphatia with benifits (granting them Hegemony over the Hollow World in reward for ? and insuring the prosperity of both their Hollow World *and* Outter World Empires through all kinds of interesting "coincidences" and Deus ex Machinas). Those who stood on the sidelines are rewarded, their new School of Magecraft opening one month, producing students already capable of spellcasting the next month, and becoming a rival to the old established Glantrian Great School of Magic a mere few months later (only the blessings of the Immortals could have produced such an outcome), while it is those who did the philosophically normative thing who suffer ruin, plague, famine, and national disintigration. So, while it is true that Alphatia is, from the standpoint of political philosopy, an anachronism by the begining of the second millenium of the modern era, it is a particularly well-favored anachronism, and will almost surely outlive its rival empire, tetering as it is on the brink of disintigration, awash in death (caused by a weapon of mass destruction deployed by a Alphatian satrapy) and in the midst of political turmoil. Moral of the story: "Anachronistic" and "Morally wrong" isn't the same as "factually incorrect." The winners write the history books. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:49:06 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom > I like these Sanskrit words, but they sound a little too > Sindhi...They'd work for the Lomavren, but probably not > for the Daro or the Domani. BUT, I think that perhaps a > shortening of some of these (i.e., the word evolved as > did their language after the split) would work very well > for those who need alternate names. Thanks! An easy way to disguise a language is to apply a consistent set of transformations to it. For example, I might transform Laszko's pseudo-sanskrit as follows: bhr -> r j -> d h is silent noun precedes adjective in compound words which will alter the sanskrit words as follows: bhram -> ram (to wander) janah -> dana (people/folk, often shortened to "da") marga -> marka (road) shapah -> shapa (curse) bahih -> bi (outside) nis -> nis (without) param -> param (town) So the resulting names look like this: daram: the wandering people teram: wanderer danabi: outside people damarka: roadfolk dashapa: curse(d) people paramnis: without town This is not sanskrit or even close to it, but it is derived from it in a roundabout way and still retains a little of its character. Of course you can play around with different transformations until you get the sound you want. A nice feature is that by rearranging the noun-adjective pattern, "daram" is pretty close to "daro"... One interesting way to transform the language would be to cross it with Traladaran or Thyatian, transliterating the sanskrit sounds into european equivalents, and perhaps borrowing some words and grammar. I don't know enough about either language group to make suggestions (at least not without some study), but this would probably be the most "realistic" approach. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 15:02:33 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Heldannic Knights: a Reasessment. Sniped portion of the First Millennium HK Timeline (by Bruce Heard, originally posted on the MMB): "AC 571: ... Thyatis builds prisons on Ierendi Islands. For the next twenty nine years, Hattian convicts are sent to these festering fiend-holes. During their many years of incarceration, Hattians dream up a secret sect that would one day break the chains of their slavery and overthrow Thyatian power." {Sect becomes Storm Soldiers, which establishes itself in Hattias in the 7th century}. {A goatheard named Ledeia begins preaching the faith of Vanya in the 9th century}. "AC 829: ... The ranks of Ledeia's followers have grown. Their role is mostly to defend the weak and root out the corrupt. More often than not the wealthy Thyatian landowners seem to be paying the price of Ledeia's teachings. Attempts are made to crack down on the church. It is outlawed. The faith and its teachings go underground." "AC 892: ... Some Storm Soldiers, impressed with the teachings of the Church of Vanya adopt the faith as well. The Church of Vanya harbours an increasing number of current or ex-Storm Soldiers." "AC 913: ... A part of the Church of Vanya focuses more on its military capability. A struggle over Hattian followers opposes Thanatos and Vanya. Although the Church of Vanya is outgrowing the Storm Soldiers' sect, Thanatos manages to influence the church with some of the crass ideals of his Storm Soldiers. An order of warriors is formed, the Order of Vanya, and the first draft of their Code of Conduct is written. It is very simple and very vague. " (for the full text of this screed, refer to: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/hk1000.html at stan's site.) The Re-assessment: in previous materiels Vanya was usually portrayed as the patroness of war and conquest, and as a traditional patron of Thyatis (and its militarism/conqest). Based on the above, Vanya has to be re-defined as a Patroness of the Downtrodden, opposer of Opression, and hater of those who Conquer. This leads to a re-assessment of the Heldannic Knights as well. Wheras before one might not nessisarily think of them as nice neighbors, one could respect their vitrue. What virtue, you ask? They were virtuous in that they acted in harmony with the teachings of their Patron Immortal: they fought and conquered, in accordance with their faith and their beliefs. However, based upon this Timeline, and the conclusions regarding the nature of Vanya which it presupposes (that she is not, in fact, a patroness of conquest, but actually opposed to it, and opposed to enforced servitude as well: that her faith is a form of "Liberation Theology), the Knights cannot be respected and they lack all virtue. Why? Because based upon the above, the "Heldannic" Knights are not acting in harmony with the teachings of their Immortal: they are, in fact, acting exactly contrary to those teachings! By conquering through force the region of Heldann and making the Heldanners their servants (rather than, as might have been possible, attempting to convert them peacefully), the Heldannic Knights are acting in direct opposition to the founding precepts of both the original sect from which they drew their inspiration, and against the dictates of their own "Liberation Theology." Under the old system the Knights could be respected for living up to their ideals. Now, the Knights must be scorned for violating their own ideals and acting contrary to the nature of their faith. So not only are they not nice neighbors, but they cannot be respected. I thereby propose that Vanya punish them by removing the spellcasting ability of all Clerics in Heldann who promote, support, and advocate the activities of the Order of the Heldannic Knights, that she Excomunicate them from her until they repent of their activities and humbly return the lands of Heldann to the Heldannic people. That until she does so she stands judged as equally culpable in the corruption of her own belief system. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:03:44 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom >>By the way this Dom article was great. But is there going to be >something >>about the Dom travel runes. RL Gypsies have their own signs to tell >other >>Gypsies that the place is dangerous, a house of friends and so on. The >Five >>Shires Halfling runes are a lot like these signs. > >Great idea! I was next going to work on their "information network" (by >which word-of-mouth messages get to Dom countries away), but I think I >can integrate both ideas. Sounds like yet another application of the "Signalling" skill/NWP, to me. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:17:41 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom > daram: the wandering people > teram: wanderer > danabi: outside people > damarka: roadfolk > dashapa: curse(d) people > paramnis: without town > >This is not sanskrit or even close to it, but it is derived from it in a >roundabout way and still retains a little of its character. Of course you >can play around with different transformations until you get the sound you >want. A nice feature is that by rearranging the noun-adjective pattern, >"daram" is pretty close to "daro"... That IS interesting ... especially because a comparable transformation might also account for the word "Darokin"! Maybe that's a many-times-transformed term the Sindhis used, to refer to the "wandering" paleskins who dwelt the eastern lands, beyond the Turtle and Tiger tribesfolk. Eventually, those who'd settled down and founded towns under the Eastwind dynasty took to calling themselves "daro-kin", being mostly descended from such people (that's long before the more recent immigration-waves to Darokin, of course). :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 17:51:18 -0600 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v6.0 On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 08:10:20 -0800 "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" writes: >On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 16:45:29 CET "Herve Musseau" >Wrote: >> >>Mystara FAQ >> >>version 6.0 by Hervé Musseau >>[...] > > Heya Hervé. I see you took some of Johnathon's comments to heart >and >updated the FAQ here and there. It's looking pretty good. > > I just had an Idea that I'd share and see what everyone thought -- Another idea might be to mark the new and updated questions. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:16:56 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatian Universities Another list, with of course another webpage: http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Olympus/7211/Thyatis/University.html Imperial Academy, Thyatis City Military Theory, Engeneering, Law, Rhetoric, Philosophy, Diplomacy, Economics, Public Policy. Academy of Music, Thyatis City Music, Theatre, Construction of musical instruments. Collegeum Arcanum, Thyatis City (aka College of Lucinius) Magic, Physics, Metaphysics, Alchemy. Great Lybrary, Thyatis City Literature, History. The Hospition, Thyatis City Health Care, Theology, Biology, Investigating abuses of magic. Headquarters of the Imperial Hospitaliers. Collegium Navalis, Port Lucinius (aka Imperial Naval Academy) Navigation, Naval Warfare, Shipbuilding. Retebius Air Academy, Retebius City Aerial Warfare, Aerodynamics, Training of flying creatures. West Reach Cavalry School, Kerendas City Cavalry Tactics, Horsemanship. University of Biazzan, Biazzan Mathmatics, Hollow World Theories. Alaysian University, Tel Akbir History, Linguistics, Mathmatics, Medicine, Music, Alchemy, Astronomy. Newkirk High, Newkirk Linguistics, Seafaring. Beitung Seminary, Beitung Theology, Philosophy, Metaphysics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 22:23:40 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters At 04:50 PM 3/17/99 -0300, you wrote: >>>Which reminds me, this halfling chararcter we're talking about was >actually >>>my first character --that is, not counting computer RPGs... And as you're >>>beginning to see, he doesn't differ too much from myself. >>>Is this commonplace? Does everybody plays him(her)self as his first >>>character? >>> >>What I do alot, is whenever I run across a new game world is imagine what I >>would >>do if I ever wound up there. Well either me, or someone very much like me. >:) >> > > >So... you always play human chars? No, this is actually, before I actually make up any characters. I suppose it gives me a feel for the place. Though, I do play alot of human characters, I've also been playing a lot of dwarven characters. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #137 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, March 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 138 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom RE: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) Re: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). [MYSTARA] - Demi-human accents [MYSTARA] - Save Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 00:58:58 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) Journal of Arminath Wynter Entry 1 After getting a good day's rest mine companions and myself have made ready to leave Shimmergloom. Before leaving there was a great fest and the subjects of mine realm unveiled a grand work of art dedicated in mine name: they carved a great pillar in the central cavern as a tribute to my life! It hath humbled me like no other event in mine life, to see loyal people dedicate a great amount of time and effort to show appreciation to a single person. Everything was there, frozen in stone and gem and magical phantasms. Even more amazing was the fact that it was done totally without mine knowledge! When the last person had gone home, mine companions and myself made ready to leave. Kylie, mine daughter and a priestess of Valerias, was totally silent. We exchanged no words, but it seemed that everything that needed to be said was. Then we left. Entry 2 We've traveled to Mirros to meet a mage named Saren. It seems he has a new magic useful against magical attacks. If we're to enter the tomb of an ancient wizard, this seems a prudent move. The first night in the city proper I've reverted to mine Traladaran native disguise. No use drawing attention of any elves to be seen about. We've agreed to meet at the Black-Heart Lily, a place frequented by myself when visiting this fair human town, after the others have made a few last-minute purchases. After we've waited for 3 days it seems Saren is going to be away for longer than we can wait. Last night while eating in the common room a chill wind blew in and the city was blanketed by a thick fog. One of the tavern patrons was leaving and was forcibly jerked through the door, his screams of protest cut off, as if his very life was extinguished in an instant. The tavern was dead silent for an instant until myself and companions rushed headlong into the fog, to help the unfortunate man. We found him laying not more than 10 feet from the tavern door! The poor man was missing a leg and part of his head was gone, ripped forcibly off. As we examined him shapes formed out of the fog, revealing themselves to be Wights dressed in the tattered remains of sailors' clothes! We fought 10 of the foul creatures and destroyed them all thanks to Anna's Immortal granted powers against the unliving. Unfortunatley Anna and Targus were wounded by the creatures' rending claws and Anna no longer has the power to reverse the damage. The man killed was named Caspan, a hand on a local barge. Talk in the Lily was of the uncanny looks of the wight bodies to the sailors of a local barge that disappeared. The Lily's barkeep told us that the barge captain's name was Payvin and he could be found on the docks during the day, trying to find a new crew. We'll check this out in the morning on our way out of town. I wish not to waste too much time on something that the local guards can check out, but mine interest hath been piqued. Entry 3 We've located Payvin, but something hath come up that frightens me to the core of mine very own being. Payvin was at the docks, soliciting sailors to crew his barge when we approached him. He told us of a run-in he had the night he thought his crew deserted. A creature, human-looking but with sharp fangs and claws awaited him on the barge. He said that it told him that its master, the Devourer, would soon have them all under its power. Once, when I was much younger and newer to the World Above, I joined a brave band of heroes that thought I was a surface elf that just did one magical experiment too many. We travelled to a tomb that had many a deadly trap and confounding puzzles, both mundane and magical in nature. I wish in mine youth I had the foresight to keep journals as I do now. In this tomb we reached the vault of it's deceased owner and battled a terrible creature. In desperation the few left fled, never to meet again. I know not if any of the others made it out. The tomb's owner was Acererak, the Devourer. We consulted with a local sage and he confirmed (after a hefty fee) that an ancient wizard known as the Devourer practiced dark magic dealing with the life essence and sprirts of living creatures. Also found (for an additional fee, this human was more of a con artist than sage methinks) was that a reclusive mage named Verath the Gaunted had taken interest in the Devourer as well, leading an expidition over 2 decades ago. We discovered the location of his last known tower (after some persuasion from Targus) being somewhere northwest of the Barony of Halag in the southern most portion of the Cruth Mountains. We leave in the morning, our pockets more full from the deeds of Gervus (Hin warrior mine left foot, more as not the little cad is more of an acquirer of others property than a warrior!). We leave at the break of dawn for the Verath's tower. - ----- Arminath Wynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:20:30 +0100 (MET) From: Agathokles Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Dom On Thu, 18 Mar 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > One interesting way to transform the language would be to cross it with > Traladaran or Thyatian, transliterating the sanskrit sounds into european > equivalents, and perhaps borrowing some words and grammar. I don't know > enough about either language group to make suggestions (at least not without > some study), but this would probably be the most "realistic" approach. > > Both Greek and Latin are related to Sanskrit, so the there is often a direct correspondence between words in those languages. I could guess, for example, that "janah" (people) is related to the latin gens (family, kin). However, given the abundance of "a" sounds in sanskrit, finding a set of transformation rules can be difficult (sankrit "a" can become "e" or even "i" in Greek/Latin, not to mention the fact that many "a" sounds simply disappear). Some "realistic" suggestions could be: bh=>f or ph, j =>g So Sindhi words like maharajah become (mixed) Greek/Latin (=Thyatian) words like "megas rex" (where rex<=reg-s). Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:28:36 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). James Ruhland was very disappointed and wrote: > Well, when no one else has any comments I'm > reduced to commenting on my own crap, > so here we go. Well James, I must say I rather liked your crap :-) It was not bad crap at all. But it is indeed strange that no one wrote a reaction. Maybe we should have, but we don't HAVE to react on everything you or anyone else writes. Maybe we just like to read it and because it was soooo long, we didn't have time to write to the list ??? :-) Actually I've read the "original" RL dialogue, which is a very interesting read if you're interested in that part of history, but your 'crap' I liked more. So there. Do you mind if I translate it to Dutch and put it on the Dutch part of my website (some time in the future when I have more time to translate). It's a very good read and could help to enhance the overall atmosphere of my campaigns. >> Shortly following the fall of Nithia the Alphatians >> discovered the islands south of the Island of Dawn, >> including some rich in pearls, which they christened >> the Pearl Islands and decided to add to their >> Empire along with the others. > > Actually, I couldn't find any mention of when > the Alphatians moved in on either the P.I's or > the Alatian islands, so I just guessed. I figured that > when Nithia *poofed* away and they moved in on > the IoD sounded like a >suitable time. I agree. Your guess is as good as mine, and since you guessed before I could even begin to guess what to guess, I'll take your guess for granted. I think... > First, regarding the Nuari: No, I can't write in > a Jamacan accent so I'm not going to try. Right on, mon! > Second, regarding the Nuari: IMO their personal > concern with Excellence and betterment of body and > mind would lead them to have a philosophical bent, > thus a concern for justice, cosmic order, and other > normative virtues. Here and throughout the dialogue > they try to show to the Alphatians that these aren't > simply abstract notions, but valuable concerns > which it would be in the interest of Alphatia to adopt. Unfortunatly, the Alphatians think they are too strong for the Nuari, so won't listen anyway. Pity for the Nuari. >> Alphatians: "The end of our empire, if it should end, >> does not frighten us. The possibility of a rival empire >> is not worse than the likelyhood that our vanquished >> subjects would try to revolt and overpower us, their >> rulers, if we showed weakness. > >Of course, as we know, five centuries later their is > a general uprising of their subjects, which does eventually > result in the formation of a rival empire. And the Nuari are > a part of that revolt/rival empire. And at the time, the > Alphatians evidenced grave weakness, which is why > both the revolt and the rival empire succeeded. Than it is as the Nuari said, "You are as dependent on morality in this as any, because otherwise your Empire's fall would be a cause for the heaviest vengeance and an example for the world to meditate upon." >>This is a risk that we will not take >>in the name of abstract virtues. >>We will now prove to you that >>we have come here in the interest >>of our empire, and for the >>preservation of your country you >>will listen; as we desire to >>excersise our authority over >>you without trouble, and see >>you are preserved for the good >>of us both." > >The Alphatians understand what the Nuari are trying to say >but then argue in the contrary that their self interest is served >not by the virtues the Nuari would like them to consider accepting >as valid, but by naked power alone, the only means by which >they claim, retain, and justify their hegemony. Accepting the >Nuari argument would call into question the legitimacy of the >Alphatian Empire. Because of this, the Nuari are faced with >the only choice the Alphatians find it possible to give: >submission/servitude, or elimination (which is highlighted >by the subsiquent exchange, which I'll snip for brevity). They know the Nuari are right, in a way. But since the Alphatians are the stronger (at this moment), they argue different, even though they know they would have used the same arguments if they would have been in the position the Nuari are in. > the vulgar, who abandon reality when > practical resources are lacking > they turn to the invisible, to prophets > and clerics, and other such > inventions that delude men as > they march to their own destruction." > And don't turn to the advice of > strange women named "Anya". I'll keep that in mind!! :-) >> Alphatians: "When you speak of the favor >> of your Immortals, we may >> as fairly hope for that as you. Our pretentions >> and our conduct are what >> men believe of the Immortals, or practice >> among themselves. > >And that certainly proved to be true. Even though the statement is rather bold. Unfortunatly for the other nations, the Alphatians were right... >> Alphatians: {redacted} But then we come to your >> notion that the Mystaran nations will come to your >> aid. Here we bless your simplicity but we do not >> envy your folly. danger is something the Mystaran >> nations generally avoid as much as possible." >> what an intending ally trusts to is not the >> goodwill of those who ask for his aid, but some >> benifit for their efforts, like a new school of >> magecraft, and the possibility of success. > > Of course I threw in the jab about the School of Magecraft > to show how, fifteen centuries later, the Alphatian's > argument was still true: nations often given credit for > being paragons of virtue falling all over themselves > to betray their allies and avoid the danger of opposing > Alphatia, even though (once you abstract the argument > between the Immortals, which mortals like Stefan knew > nothing of) on the face of it the virtuous thing to do would > have been to help defend Glantri from Alphatia's agressions. > But there is no virtue in getting killed, so Good King > Stefan rationalizes his action, and exchanges his honor > for a school of magecraft and a treaty. . . How typical of him! > Moral of the story: "Anachronistic" and "Morally wrong" > isn't the same as "factually incorrect." The winners > write the history books. Amen. Kristian Kramer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:42:30 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) > Journal of Arminath Wynter This is great!!! Keep 'em coming...Thanks for making my day! Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:27:46 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Nuari Dialogue (Commentorium Auctoris). > Do you mind if I translate it to Dutch and put it on the Dutch part of my > website (some time in the future when I have more time to translate). It's a > very good read and could help to enhance the overall atmosphere of my > campaigns. > Thanks for the comments, and sure: go ahead and translate it and use it however you want. 8-) > > Than it is as the Nuari said, "You are as dependent on morality in this as > any, because otherwise your Empire's fall would be a cause for the heaviest > vengeance and an example for the world to meditate upon." > One of the problems, IMO, with WotI, is that the outcome (the humbling of Thyatis, the fall of Alphatia) is only partially handled well in subsiquent products. Thyatis isn't really humbled (though they do get beaten up later, and end up being basically the same old Empire, only ineffectual and thus something to snicker at; worthless), while in the end no real lesson about Hubris can be learned from what happens to Alphatia: they end up, by Joshuan's Almanac, smelling like a rose, portrayed as the heros of Mystara. Thus, IMO part of the intent that (may) have driven the concept behind Wrath of the Immortals was subverted from within by TSR. The only lesson that is learned is the lesson the Melian --er, the Nuari Dialogue teaches: the strong rule where they can, the weak suffer what they must, and the Immortals (in the form of game designers) back 'em up. 8-) > > Even though the statement is rather bold. Unfortunatly for the other > nations, the Alphatians were right... > Right about what? Being stronger? It's certainly true that the strong get what they want (usually) and the weak are best advised to step asside, as they did. Thus the outcome (as depicted in WotI, the PWAs, and especially Joshuan's Almanac) forms the strongest argument in support of the pragmatism behind the Chaotic Evil philosophy I've ever seen in a series of game products. A nice, welcomed break from the usual "justice and virtue triumph and good is rewarded" fantasy campaign. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:21:50 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Demi-human accents OK I know this is WAY out of topic and to Leroy- I am realy realy sorry but I have to respond in order to correct some errors. Hebrew is an ancient language that has been "dorment" for two thousend years. this is because europian jews (who most of them started out in german speaking countries) decided hebrew is to holy for mundane affairs and spoke Idish whish is (to my ears) very close to German. Ladino is the equivilent for Jews who originated in spain and where deported to africa and asia in the 1400. ( I myself am decsended from both groups). Hebrew "awoke" at the end of the previuos century in Israel. and lots of new words have been invented\developed. Hebrew today is differen then biblicle hebrew but the basics are the same. Hebrew and arabic have similer origins but because arabic has been "alive" for the past milleniums they are now VERY different (I cant speak nor understand a word in arabic) they are much more different than spanish is from french. and back in topic- I dont think JRRT was a racist and if he was than I dont see that from his books (at least the ones I read) if any race seemed stereotipicaly jewish to me it was the hobits. as a small minority inside great poplitical powers but not participating in them. when I (used to) DM I used accents for some people and switched to English for others. I now plan to write an adventure based on castle amber and to work hard on french for that. anyway that will be the last time I degress from topic (unless something realy bugs me again...) Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 11:13:53 -0600 From: CW-Mystara-List@cmnwrld.com (CW-Mystara-List) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Save Mystara some time ago we updated our software the hosts the Save Mystara forum. In that change the the 'POST' button was lost. My thanks to the Mystara fans that brought that to our attention. http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara I do wish we (CW gaming group) had the time to finish our web site and online gaming software. In the future we will have it up and running! Our goal is to have an online gaming site in the world of Mystara. If we can ever find the time to sit down and program it we will let you guys know first!! Untill then we will just have to be slaves to our clients and pay the bills. :( Rob Rickard http://www.CWSpot.com/mystara *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:11:14 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > I made the Melians a Thonian survival colony on Belissaria, at least for > the rough draft. While I was writting it I gave some thought to having it > be a dialogue between a group of Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians in the > 2nd century BC (pre-Thyatian Empire, during the first Alphatian invasion), > but I wanted it to take place earlier in Alphatian history. Thus it > pre-shadows some future events (like the emergence of a rival empire. . ) > and some others (like the fact that Mystarans are mostly content, like > normal amoral nations, to let Alphatia advance where it will and not take > action. I.E. Karameikos during the Wrath war comes to mind). > Anyhow, the below is a rough draft version, and I'd be greatful for any > suggested improvements, modifications, and the like: > > Shortly following the invasion of Bellissaria the Alphatians > encountered the Melians. Most of the other small communities of Bellissaria > submitted or fled without much fuss. The Melians are a colony of the > Thonians [Sparta] that would not submit to the Alphatians [Athenians] like > the other islanders, and at first remained neutral. But upon the Alphatians > using violence and plundering their territory, the Melians assumed an > attitude of open hostility towards the Alphatians. > The Melians sent a couple of envoys to negotiate with the Alphatian > generals, upon which the Alphatians spoke as follows: This is obviously a lie! Well, let's call it a legend. When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole island was uninhabited. You don't believe me? O.k., then read "The Expedition to the Great Southland". You can find it on http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:34:45 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole > island was uninhabited. > > You don't believe me? > Of course I don't believe you. You're a propagandist. As a fellow propagandist I see your charade for what it is: duplicity. You'd have us believe no one lived anywhere the Alphatians now rule in order to justify their Imperialism, when what is most likely true is that they simply wiped out or enslaved those they encountered, or (like the Yaniffey) pushed them asside. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:48:17 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > This is obviously a lie! > > http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan > After calling what I've written a lie, you'd better prepair yourself to defend the merits of everything you have written on that website. You have a week. Then the critique will begin. Or, you can appologize for your slander, something I know you'll likely not do considering your personal character. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:18:25 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Like, I don't get it! (said in best valley girl voice) Jamuga Khan wrote: > > I made the Melians a Thonian survival colony on Belissaria, at least for > > the rough draft. While I was writting it I gave some thought to having it > > be a dialogue between a group of Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians in > the > > 2nd century BC (pre-Thyatian Empire, during the first Alphatian > invasion), > > but I wanted it to take place earlier in Alphatian history. Thus it > > pre-shadows some future events (like the emergence of a rival empire. . > ) > > and some others (like the fact that Mystarans are mostly content, like > > normal amoral nations, to let Alphatia advance where it will and not take > > action. I.E. Karameikos during the Wrath war comes to mind). > > Anyhow, the below is a rough draft version, and I'd be greatful for any > > suggested improvements, modifications, and the like: > > > > Shortly following the invasion of Bellissaria the Alphatians > > encountered the Melians. Most of the other small communities of > Bellissaria > > submitted or fled without much fuss. The Melians are a colony of the > > Thonians [Sparta] that would not submit to the Alphatians [Athenians] > like > > the other islanders, and at first remained neutral. But upon the > Alphatians > > using violence and plundering their territory, the Melians assumed an > > attitude of open hostility towards the Alphatians. > > The Melians sent a couple of envoys to negotiate with the Alphatian > > generals, upon which the Alphatians spoke as follows: > > This is obviously a lie! > > Well, let's call it a legend. > > When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole > island was uninhabited. > > You don't believe me? > O.k., then read "The Expedition to the Great Southland". You > can find it on > > http://members.aol.com/JamugaKhan > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:19:34 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] The gifts we have given to the native peoples of Yanifey are twisted for your own vile, political ends. We sir, are not amused! - --Imperial Prince Zandor James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole > > island was uninhabited. > > > > You don't believe me? > > > Of course I don't believe you. You're a propagandist. As a fellow > propagandist I see your charade for what it is: duplicity. You'd have us > believe no one lived anywhere the Alphatians now rule in order to justify > their Imperialism, when what is most likely true is that they simply wiped > out or enslaved those they encountered, or (like the Yaniffey) pushed them > asside. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:31:28 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] >The gifts we have given to the native peoples of Yanifey are twisted for your >own vile, political ends. We sir, are not amused! >--Imperial Prince Zandor > >James Ruhland wrote: > >> >> > >> > When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole >> > island was uninhabited. >> > >> > You don't believe me? >> > >> Of course I don't believe you. You're a propagandist. As a fellow >> propagandist I see your charade for what it is: duplicity. You'd have us >> believe no one lived anywhere the Alphatians now rule in order to justify >> their Imperialism, when what is most likely true is that they simply wiped >> out or enslaved those they encountered, or (like the Yaniffey) pushed them >> asside. Fight, kids, fight! ;-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 18:43:04 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, part 2 Entry 4 'Tis been many days since my last entry, so I wilt try and recall what I canst remember of the recent events. We left Mirros the day following our talk with the sage Ahrens. Traveling westward to Luln our eventual destination was Halag, where mineself and Uldras hoped to find information on a more precise location of Verath's Tower. I've 'visited' the old Fort Doom in the days of Baron von Hendriks and remember a few hidden locations that human scoundrel Bargle set himself in case his own schemings went awry. I'm of the mind that Barge knew of Verath's home, for either conquering or magical trade. The trip to Luln was not without its difficulties. There were minor skirmishes with goblinoids and orc-kin. The more disturbing thing was the amount of undead that we were beset with. It seems like for every creature that was put down, a day or two later undead creatures would attack. Eventually we made our destinations, stopping in Luln long enough for a good night's rest and learning the undead problem was rampant all over the region. We made good time to Halag, with Gervus detailing the fall of the Black Eagle very well. His stories were full of personal comments and he even produced evidence that he was among the hin that kidnapped the good King Stephan to start it all. Amazing what ye can learn of ye're companions when travelling through their old stomping grounds. Halag was uneventful, as far as things go. We had the same monster problems that the rest of the inhabitants of the barony have. More undead as well. They seemed to be in greater numbers here, for some reason. After gaining access to one of Bargle's safeholds we've learnt that he was planning to duel Verath but never got the chance, for Verath disappeared without a trace. This was about 22 years ago, by Bargle's notes. We sacked what was not taken by Bargle on his flight from the barony. A few useful spell scrolls, magical trinkets and blank books mostly. Resting here we will set out for Verath's Tower in the morn. Entry 5 Ahh I love the countryside! I have forgotten much about the other parts of this human realm than those closest to mine cavern realm. We followed the river north till a suitable crossing was found, then skirted the swamp to the west. This area has changed much in the centuries. The whole time we were beset by orc- and goblin-kin and lizard men and by undead of those races. It seems that the farther north we go, the more undead there are. Withing sight of the mountains we were attacked by hill giants! The great brutes actually suprised us by hiding on the fringe of the swamp under tangled mats of weaved swamp grass, then jumped out! It was a terrific battle, with all of us taking terrible wounds, but we all were accounted for thanks to Uldras. It was his timely casting of a spell he calls 'Alter Gravity' on the leader of the giantish band. With their leader shot into the sky by great magic, the giants split up and fled. After travelling to the base of the mountains, we found the formations described by Bargle's notes that lead us to the pass into Verath's canyon tower. It was agreed by all that a night's rest before tackling the defenses the mage left behind would be a good idea. Outside the mountain pass, we found a small defensible area that was surrounded by rock formations, hard enough for us to get into, let alone any attackers. Wounded and tired we made camp, awaiting the morn to see what Verath left behind. Mineself, I wonder what Verath knew of this Devourer and what happened to him. I am apprehensive as to what may await us in the tower. Verath may still be there, in one form or another, using stories of an unguarded tower to lure others to their doom. Arminath Wynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 17:53:50 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > Fight, kids, fight! ;-D > Don't worry, it won't be the first time. As you know, I don't take that kind of crap from anyone, least of all people like Jamuga Khan. He has in the past called what others have written lies (if he doesn't like what it is, at least) and been one of the foremost in crys of "not canonical!" (again, when it comes to things he doesn't like). No one that I know has given him a taste of his own medicine. It's about time he learned what it feels like. I'm fairminded though. He has a week to gather information to support everything he has written and posted with appropriate references to canon (and it better be backed up by canon, Jamuga: live by the sword, die by the sword). *Or* he can admit that being creative is what fantasy RPGs are all about, and to call someone else's work a lie, *without* having anything legitimate to back up that assertion (for example, if I someone were to claim that a Grand Council in a given country has Magic Users, Clerics, and other types of Spellcasters on it, and I were to say no, it consists solely of Magic Users, I'd better have the facts behind me based upon information in some published generally accepted "official" source or sources in contradicting that someone*), otherwise it is a base and ignoble slander, a contemptable thing to do. *And even so, many people consider it fair to re-interpret "canon" materiels and to modify them to suit their own tastes, and then share that interpretation with others in a forum such as this. However, since Jamuga is among the first to step forward to critique people who do that, at least if he doesn't like the outcome, and hide behind the shield of canon, well he doesn't have a privilege to do what he will not permit others to do. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:12:35 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > *And even so, many people consider it fair to re-interpret "canon" > materiels and to modify them to suit their own tastes, and then share that > interpretation with others in a forum such as this. However, since Jamuga > is among the first to step forward to critique people who do that, at least > if he doesn't like the outcome, and hide behind the shield of canon, well > he doesn't have a privilege to do what he will not permit others to do. Yes, we won't get too far maintaining campaigns in a dead game setting if the 'Mystara Papacy' as I have called it in the past tries to wipe out what others write. Why can't Jamuga "we chermanz arent all smilez und zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel Mystarae? Some of which will be congruent with theirs, some of which won't. Works for me. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #138 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, March 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 139 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA WEBPAGE Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 18:18:40 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - MYSTARA WEBPAGE I've added some Elf stuff to the Book of Skulls page together with a very abbreviated work in progress which is essentially an HTML encyclopaedia of Mystara. If you have entries that desparately need to be included, or links or whatever just email them to me SVP. I am currently completing a Psionics Handbook and beginnign work on an Underground netbook to classify and compile (and create) some large scale contiguous dungeons as in the good old days of D&D, particularly my expansions to the Judges Guild series for D&D and some other 3rd party stuff from 1978-1979. Mystara fthagn! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 23:22:30 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) >Kylie, mine daughter and a priestess of Valerias, Wow, you actually let your daughter, your own flesh and blood, become a priestess of Valerias? That seems as though that might be a little... unique in Mystara. On the other, you have a very good story coming along: nice foreshadowing, with a touch of the epic. Good show! "One Empire. One Race. One Time." - Qartanaq Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 07:52:54 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) In a message dated 3/20/99 2:34:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, dr_bombastic@hotmail.com writes: << >Kylie, mine daughter and a priestess of Valerias, Wow, you actually let your daughter, your own flesh and blood, become a priestess of Valerias? That seems as though that might be a little... unique in Mystara. On the other, you have a very good story coming along: nice foreshadowing, with a touch of the epic. Good show! >> It seemed fitting, as she is an Aasimar. Her mother was/is an exalted servant of Valerias and was taken when Kylie was very young. When it came time for her to choose a profession, she was readily accepted into the ranks of Valerias' priesthood. Her desire to see that what happened to her mother and Arminath never happen to other loved ones (They were ambushed by fiends in their own bedchamber and were not prepared for it. Many years of peace and retirement had made Arminath too relaxed, and he had not planned for the eventuality that an enemy could be as so bold.) for she knows the great pain Arminath feels on certain days. Arminath is NOT happy with her decision, but he has grown to accept it. Eventually we all have to learn to let go and see if our kids can fly. As for the story part, thanks! Over the years I've gamed I started keeping journals for my characters, mostly notes on creatures fought and places visited. Arminath's has grown to fill a 3 composition books. Tomb of Horrors was almost a killer for him the 1st time around (10th level elf) so while I know what will happen if I succeed (the DM and I conferred extensively) I'm still not sure I won't fail (now 16th level elf).The companions of Arminath's are: ~Targus Blackfoot, 12th (formerly 15th, damn wights) level Dwarf Warrior (Don Anderson) ~Annabelle Rothridge, 15th (former 20th, freaking wights) level Human Cleric of Vanya (Lori Reed) ~Gevus, 12th level Halfling Thief (Steph Fries) ~Uldras the Wanderer, 19th level Human Mage (Jason Pyle) ~Last, but not least, there's me, Arminath Wynter, 16th level Shadow Elf. While I'm not a good writer, I wanted to share this foray into a advanced module for the OD&D'ers out there. At the end I'll post the conversions for anyone that would like t have them. Jim/Arminath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 14:39:51 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal Part 1 Longish) In a message dated 3/20/99 5:55:35 AM Mountain Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << At the end I'll post the conversions for anyone that would like t have them. >> Please do. I think that a bit of "fiction" would be a refreshing change from the standard fare of "is it canon or not" that we have so very much of. :) One Eye the Dwarf *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 15:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] On Sat, 20 Mar 1999, Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA wrote: > zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel Mystarae? Ack! I think the appropriate term is Mystaras. :) Ethan - trying to lighten up the tense situation. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 22:54:26 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] >> zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel Mystarae? > >Ack! > >I think the appropriate term is Mystaras. :) > Why not "Mystari"? :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 17:56:17 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:10:53 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera > Well, we refer to CM1 as 'the Norworld GAZ', cause is a *huge* module with > tons of info on Norworld... maybe the DotE wasn't enough. Oh, it is? CM-books keep surprising me all the time. Would anyone care to list what have they eaten? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #139 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 140 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera [MYSTARA] - Forwarded Message [MYSTARA] - Apologia [MYSTARA] - Mausoleum of Glantri [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: History [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: Membership [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: Organization [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: using the Great Order. Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) [MYSTARA] - Map scales [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Mausoleum of Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Apologia RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 09:25:13 EST From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera In a message dated 99-03-21 04:12:35 EST, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << CM-books keep surprising me all the time. Would anyone care to list what have they eaten? >> It's been a while since I've looked through most of them, but... CM1 - Test of the Warlords - by Doug Niles - describes Norwold in some detail, including people, places and things, as well as various adventures therein. The best of the series, and most valuable to the Mystara fan... Must Have! CM2 - Death's Ride - by Garry Spiegle - Describes the Barony of Twolakes Vale, found in Norwold, a classic adventure against the forces of Entropy with a chance to win the Dominion in the end. Continues to emphasize Alphatia as "Atlantis"... CM3 - Sabre River - by Doug Niles and Bruce Nesmith - For any setting, though designed for use with Norwold, is basically an extended "Dominon Event" that the characters get involved in, wherein they must end a curse that is killing the people of the Dominion. This module includes illustrated character sketches of the PC's ubiquitous to the first three CM series i.e., Fergus the Justifier, Weston the Tall, etc.). CM4 - Earthshaker! - by Dave Cook - The Original Earthshaker! Gnomes! And a Boldavian/Traladaran Norwold Dominion to boot... though not in much detail, unfortunately. CM5 - Don't have this one... CM6 - Where Chaos Reigns - by Graeme Morris - This is the module where the Oards first appear. The characters are sent on a time-and-space spanning adventure to save Aelos - another world (not Mystara in the past) from the vile Oards. One of the best of the "British Invasion" adventures... CMK7 - The Tree of Life - by Bruce "Mystara Lives!" Heard - Details the Sylvan Realm and the quest to save it from the vile Moorkroft IV, The Elvenbane. Second to CM! in information for Mystara fans... CM8 - The Endless Stair - by Ed Greenwood - A disappointment, from a Mystaran point of view. Good adventure on it's own, placed in the Forgotten Realms it would be perfect, though placed in Glantri, it doesn't work (it *might* work better in southern Darokin or maybe the Five Shires, with some work). CM9 - Legacy of Blood - by Steve Perrin and Katherine Kerr - Decribes, in some detail, the Dominion of Fenhold in Darokin, and the adventures available there, especially as regards the threat coming from the Fens. On par with CM2, though not quite as epic in scope. A solid Mystara adventure... That's all IMNSHO, of course... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 11:47:00 -0500 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Norwold et cetera Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > CM3 - Sabre River - by Doug Niles and Bruce Nesmith - For any setting, though > designed for use with Norwold, is basically an extended "Dominon Event" that > the characters get involved in, wherein they must end a curse that is killing > the people of the Dominion. This module includes illustrated character > sketches of the PC's ubiquitous to the first three CM series i.e., Fergus the > Justifier, Weston the Tall, etc.). An excellent overview Mystaros! I would add to this one though, as there is some mention, in the nature of the curse, of a general from Alphatia from long ago. I add this because of the interesting historical element. The same sort of element that is in CM1 in the form of the ancient fellow Alphas who led men to Norwold, from the east, in ships that "towered to the heavens". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:00:40 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Forwarded Message [Admin: This was bounced to me because it had a majordomo command in it, so I stuck a dash in the middle of that command, so majordomo wouldn't bounce it to me.] Some of you might remember me as one of the first to compile a Mystara timeline; I also typed in Hule Gazeteer, data on Phanatons and Hutaakans, one version of the Mystaran solar system, and I made a pain of myself in a bunch of other ways, too. :) A while ago, I had a fairly limited in-box quota, and the traffic on the list was spiking, so I had to unsu-bscribe. Now, I have double the quota, and more time to read through the messages, so I'm re-subscribing. I've begun to think about a project to contribute to Mystaran fandom, but, knowing the way my life tends to go, I'll probably never be able to complete it. However, I would like to propose it, find out what other people think of it, and, hopefully, con a few people into doing some of the hard work. :) Simply put, I want to create an accurate, 3D computer model of Mystara (and its sun, moons, and the other planets), including such data as Matera's rise-and-set times, the Floating Continents orbits, and scanned surface maps laid onto the right places. I want this model to be in a format that will be readable and usable 10 and more years from now, but, as I've never even looked at a 3D model program (unless you count watching episodes of Reboot), I have no idea what formats are available. One concern I have is the copyright and trademark issues for such a model; if anybody else expresses interest in helping me create this thing, I intend to ask TSR and/or WotC for their comments. So... what do you think? - -- Daniel Boese *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 12:35:37 PST From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Apologia I'm sorry that several of my messages have been published two or three times. I apologize for wasting your bandwidth. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 00:11:46 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mausoleum of Glantri Has anyone created anything out of lord Glantri's Mausoleum? My players show growing intrest on this doorles tower, and I would like to have some ideas if I must improvise on this. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:17:34 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: History The Ordo Magna (aka The Great Order or simply The Order). The Ordo Magna was one of the earliest fighting orders established in Thyatis. In fact, there are indications that its existance predates the Empire itself. During the Alphatian occupation of Thyatis many small resitance groups sprung up, mostly acting in secret. These resistance groups were mostly ineffectual at first, so the Alphatians paid them no real notice. Over time they formed a network, an organization dedicated to overthrowing Alphatian rule in Thyatis. Not much came of their efforts until Lucinius masterminded and led the revolt against Alphatia in BC 2. At that point the various resistance groups were organized into a single entity under Lucinius' leadership, the Ordo Magna, which provided the Thyatian rebels with much of their military power, and was among the first institution to include Thyatians, Hattians, and Kerendans in one "national" organization. When the Alphatians were defeated and Zendrolion murdered King Lucinius and the Kings of Ochalea and the Pearl Islands, establishing the Thyatian Empire, the Ordo Magna was one of the first groups that recieved chartered approval from the Emperor. Zendrolion feared that the Ordo Magna, which had followed the leadership of Lucinius, would oppose his rule. By chartering them and permiting them a degree of autonomy, he hoped to neutralize whatever ill-will they might have towards him. In this, he succeeded, though only on the surface. The Ordo Magna did not organize a revolt against his rule, and seemed to dedicate itself to defending Zendrolion's new Empire against the Alphatians. However, the leaders of the Ordo Magna felt that Zendrolion's new Empire had simply re-created the tyrrany of the Alphatians, however with a Thyatian as its despot rather than an Alphatian. Though some felt that this was a neccissary evil, required to insure that Thyatis would be strong enough to fend off any future Alphatian counter-attacks, others remained committed to the ideals of Lucinius and the original resistance cells, and their goal of a nation which served the common interest with the input of everyone. During Zendrolion's two decade rule, the Ordo Magna resolved this tension between the two factions by extending its ranks to include members from the Pearl Islands, Ochalea, and the Thyatian-held areas of the Isle of Dawn, but they did not actively oppose Zendrolion. This swelled the Ordo Magna's ranks, simoultaniously tilting the balance between the factions: the new members came from areas that were occupied by force, and were strongly opposed to Zendrolion. When he died, these members were among the first to agitate for overthrowing Thyatian rule, and it looked certain that Zendrolion's Empire would not long outlive him. It was at this point that Valentia made her famous Citizenship Proclamation, unifying the Empire on a new basis of legitimacy and largely fullfilling the desires of the Ordo Magna. The Ordo Magna's members then dedicated themselves to insuring that Valentia's ideals were promoted throughout the Empire, and to defending her reforms against all who threatened to undo them, including not only Alphatia but many powerful Thyatians who had benifited from Zendrolion's regime. During the Bright Age that followed, the Ordo Magna was quite possibly the strongest and most influential order within Thyatis. However, its very success, and the achievements of Valentia, proved to be its undoing. Members left the Ordo Magna and joined, or even founded, other organizations that promoted a particular interest. For example, the Sisterhood of the Sword was founded by former Ordo Magna members who wanted to promote the interest of women and their rights as warriors. By the begining of the 4th century, the Ordo Magna was simply a small "gentlman's club" for senators. The Hattian revolt and the following war decimated the order, and it was disbanded. Here, the history of the order ends. . .officially. For while the public part of the Ordo Magna had disapeared, a faction had taken to operating underground. This faction had originated among those who saw no problem with Zendrolion's empire. They were not opposed to Valentia's reforms by any means, but they were firmly commited to the strength of Thyatis. By the end of the third century many in this wing of the Odo Magna had decided that their goals were best achieved by operating behind the scenes, as a secret society not bound by the restrictions of Thyatian republicanism. They organized an offshoot branch of the Ordo Magna, leaving its public membership depleted. The Hattian revolt finished off the Ordo Magna as a public order operating in the open. Using the new vernacular that was comming into vogue, the leaders of the organization termed their sect "the Great Order" or simply "the Order." Their goals were similar to that of the organization at its founding: defending Thyatis from its enemies, both external (Alphatia in particular) and internal. However, their methods began to evolve into the use of hidden hand styles of influence, assassination of people they termed enemies, and other "expedient" means. Also, as a secret society their was no longer a check on their actions. Over time, the leaders of the Order put themselves in the position of deciding who were enemies of the Order's goals, and often this came down to personal political animosities having little to do with the ideals the original Ordo Magna stood for. By the begining of the 10th century the leaders of the Order began to notice Thyatis' overall decline. They became commited to Thyatian expansionism, by any means nessissary, and the destruction of its enemies. Unlike groups like the Storm Soldiers, the Order is not a racial hate group: the Order contains members from every nation and ethnicity within Thyatis. However, by 1000 AC the Order is a virulantly jingoistic secret society, bent upon Thyatian revival by means of the conquest and subjigation of its neighbors, especially those in lands they deem "Thyatian Birthright Lands" (Karameikos, Ierendi, Minrothad, parts of Ylaruam, Norwold, the Isle of Dawn) and all of Alphatia. They are generally hostile to those who they think of as standing in the way of their goals (including Thyatians who advocate diplomacy and consolodation of the Empire as a means to strengthen it and are opposed to conquest). The Order will use any means to achieve their goals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:18:11 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: Membership The Ordo Magna (aka The Great Order or simply The Order). Interests: This order is dedicated to the maintinance and revival of Thyatian power and the subjegation of its foreign enemies (defined as anyone even remotely opposed to Thyatis) by the use of whatever means nessissary. Requirements: Any class or race may join the Great Order, but all members must be Thyatian citizens (though they may operate in disguise in lands outside Thyatis). Paladin and Forester status is incompatable with membership in the modern Great Order, but many Avengers are members of the Order. All prospective members must be approached by current members (the Great Order doesn't operate recruiting centers and there is no one to go to to ask to join). Such prospects are first given missions/undertakings by Order members *without* knowing that the organization is involved. All such missions require the prospect to face some danger and to prove to the sponsor their dedication to "Thyatian ideals" in some fashion, though this is *never* explicitly stated. Most will involve some moral quandary: those who are good candidates for membership in the Great Order will put its goals and the efficient achievement of them above any other ethical value. All members must be 3rd level or higher and must have succeeded in several such missions to the satisfaction of order leaders (who will covertly monitor the result of their activities) before they are even approached for membership. Becoming a member of the Great Order is similar to becoming a "made man" in a thieves guild or mob. The Order will run a backround check, both magical and mundane, to insure the trustworthieness of any candidate. Many people work for the Order without even knowing they do so, and are never approached to become members. Annual Fee: No set fee. Members are required to forward at least 25% of the "take"/booty gotten in any mission to their superiors as "taxes" to the Order, which fund its activities. In return equipment (including magic items and lodging) are often made available to members, especially if it is deemed nessissary for any mission they are given. Benifits: Contacts throughout Thyatis and abroad, including members of law enforcement groups that are on the Order's payroll and will thus botch any investigation of Order-related criminal activities. In addition, as a result of the conditioning provided by the Great Order, members are immune to ESP (spell results will reveal only mundane surface thoughts that the probed person wants the spellcaster to recieve) and are as resistant to Charm (but not sleep) as Elves. Problems: The only way to leave the Great Order is feet-first in a box. Ritual Magic samples will be taken from all members for use by Order mages against any member who rebels against Order disibline, goes rogue, or even is captured and seems likely to reveal (either deliberately or inadvertantly) important Order-related information to outsiders. Geas-type spells are also placed on each member during the initiation rite (which involves a variety of semi-mystical mumbo-jumbo) to insure their compliance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:21:02 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: Organization The Ordo Magna (aka The Great Order or simply The Order). By ancient tradition the Great Order has a tiered, cell-like structure related to ranks. At the lowest rung of the Great Order are the "Lieutenants," all at least third level. The next highest rank is the "Captain," who must be at least 6th level (though not all 6th level "Lieutenants" are promoted to "Captain".) Each Captain supervises 6 "Lieutenants". Above the rank of "Captain" is the "Lord," who must be at least 9th level. each "Lord" supervises 6 "Captains," and has 6 "Lieutenants" as his personal "goon squad," all of which are at least 5th level and who may be next in line for promotion to "Captain" within the "Lord's" "dominion". Above the "Lord" is the "Great Lord," who must be at least 15th level but is often 20th or higher. Each "Great Lord" supervises 6 "Lords" and has as his personal goon squad 6 "Captains" and their collection of "Lieutenants". Above the "Great Lords" is the "Omnicratic Lord," the leader of the Order. This man is reputed to be 36th level as either a Magic-User, Cleric, or Avenger (and perhaps a combination of all three). Rumors that he is a lich of great power cannot be confirmed. Except for the "Great Lords" and the Omnicratic Lord's own personal aides, no one even in the Order has seen him (except in disguse perhaps). There is 1 Omnicratic Lord, in charge of 7 Great Lords, a total of 49 Great Lords, 313 Captains, and 2,191 Lieutenants. In the past, at the height of the Ordo Magna, each Lieutenant supervised a group of Soldiers which formed the bottom rank of the Order, a total of over 15,000 such Soldiers. Now each Lieutenant is responsible for a network of informers, sympathizers, pawns, and the like, persons who exist outside the structiure of the Great Order itself but which forms the its pool of potential recruits. Note: The Great Order doesn't operate solely within Thyatis. Strong indications are that one or more Norwoldian Nobles are members of the Order, and that the six Thyatian "political refugees" that sought assylum in Karameikos in 1013 are secretly there to pursue the goals of the Order. Order cells can be found in almost any land that has contact with Thyatis, and the activities of the Great Order are often what spawn the image of Thyatians as treacherous schemers, though even the existance of the Great Order itself has never been conclusively proven (thus, IMO, the Great Order defeats its own goals. . .) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 17:23:02 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: using the Great Order. The Ordo Magna (aka The Great Order or simply The Order). Firstly, though the Great Order is includes many "nefarious Thyatian schemers," by no means does it include all of them. That wicked Thyatian over there very well may not be an Order member. In fact, the more obvious he is about it, the less likely it is that he's an Order member. Ludwig von Hendricks should never be portrayed as having been an Order member. Desmond Kelvin might be. Order members prize subtlety over brute force, but can be brutal in their methods if they need to. Opponents of the Great Order tend to disapear quietly. . . Secondly, though the Great Order is part of the corruption that is a backdrop of Thyatis, and the corruption of the Order's ideals is symbolic of that, the members of the Order are not themselves corrupt in their dealings with each other. Rarely are they treacherous in their dealings with each other (except, perhaps, in issues of promotion). Almost all members would rather die than betray the Great Order. Members who learn of the Geas or of nasty deaths suffered by Order members who do turn out to be "stool pigeons" react *not* in thinking that their leadership was nasty in putting the hex on that person. They instead think that such traitors/canaries "got what they had comming to them." Most Order members, if caught in the act and sentanced for a crime, will do the time and never "rat out" the Order itself. In return, their prison stays are often fairly comfortable (c.f. the prison life of the mafia members in "Goodfellas.) The Great Order is, however, *secondarily* a criminal organization. They are *not* the Shadow-Hand Thief's Guild or the Mystaran Mafia. They get some income from extortion, bootlegging/smuggling (goods that "fell off the back of a cart") and "protection rackets" in some places, but this is not the purpose of the Great Order and it should not be played as if it were. However, they do have similarities to the images of the Mafia (or the "hollywood mafia") at least, especially in organization, methods, and influence (political and among law enforcement). The Order's purpose is not profit through criminal enterprise. Their activities are centered, and should always be portrayed as being centered, on "Thyatian power," subversion of foreign governments, and the like. The Great Order is perfect for campaigns when the Storm Soldiers become tiresome (or are defeated by the PCs). The Great Order is much more subtle, but no less powerful (and probably more powerful/influential overall) than the Storm Soldiers are. They make a perfect threat to displace Thanatos' minions if/when they are defeated in your campaign. Thwarting the Great Order ultimately should never be based on how many members, including the Omnicratic Master, the players kill (in fact, the players shouldn't likely encounter the Omnicratic Lord except as the climax of a campaign, and defeat should be as likely as victory in such a situation). Oppossing the Great Order should be more a matter of political manuvering and counterscheming, not hacking and slashing. Characters who kill many Order members are likely to be arrested, tried, and convicted of murder. And their stays in prison will be *nothing* like those of the "Goodfellas" crowd. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 19:18:29 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) > Simply put, I want to create an accurate, 3D computer model of Mystara >(and its sun, moons, and the other planets), including such data as >Matera's rise-and-set times, the Floating Continents orbits, and scanned >surface maps laid onto the right places. I want this model to be in a >format that will be readable and usable 10 and more years from now, but, >as I've never even looked at a 3D model program (unless you count watching >episodes of Reboot), I have no idea what formats are available. One >concern I have is the copyright and trademark issues for such a model; if >anybody else expresses interest in helping me create this thing, I intend >to ask TSR and/or WotC for their comments. > > So... what do you think? > > >-- >Daniel Boese Sounds like a cool idea, Daniel. (Nice to have you back "on-list", BTW ... I've read your stuff from the archives, and liked it a lot! :-D) I've no idea where to dig up a 3-D animation program -- heck, I can't even get the complimentary 2D one on my Mac to work right -- but I certainly agree that a model of the solar system would be a wonderful addition to Mystara-lore. So long as you aren't charging anyone $$$ to look at the finished product, I doubt there'd be many legal strings attached. This sort of a project could let us MMLers hash out, and perhaps (just for a change! ;-D) reconcile, the various products' versions of the Mystaran planetary system. Maybe we could also fix those impossible "moon-set" tables from PC4, while we're at it! (BTW, if you haven't looked at my HM material in Stan's Archive, I've fiddled with the orbit of Patera a little bit: it's not quiiiite straight-on circumpolar, if you're using the Hollow Moon IYC.) There might even be room for more than one version of such a model, depending on whether you assume that "extra" planet (Daedelus, IIRC) has blown to smithereens yet, or not. Pre- and post-GRoF versions of Mystara might also be possible, if it's just a question of bitmapping the continental outlines onto a sphere, and choosing its axis of rotation as desired. Sorry I can't point you in the right direction for a graphics-program, Dan ... but if you'd like somebody else to do the scut-work regarding how Matera and Patera may fit into such a model (which I should know, since I've been hip-deep in my HM malarky for months!), I can probably dig up piles of IRL Luna-references when the time comes, and get back to you via e-mail. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 02:20:30 +0100 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) > >as I've never even looked at a 3D model program (unless you count watching > >episodes of Reboot), I have no idea what formats are available. One > >concern I have is the copyright and trademark issues for such a model; if > >anybody else expresses interest in helping me create this thing, I intend > >to ask TSR and/or WotC for their comments. > > > > So... what do you think? > > Try 3d Studio: it is a bit old by now (it was the boom among architecture students in my dorm around 1995), but it is (I have been told) quite easy to use. Best luck, Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:16:58 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3D Mystara (was: Forwarded Message) On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >as I've never even looked at a 3D model program (unless you count watching > >episodes of Reboot), I have no idea what formats are available. One 3Ds MAX is usually the best bet for making things like that, however, it is an expensive program ($~3,000!!!) I would say your best bet is to look at the Free POV-Ray drawring programs, but those may not have the power or texturemapping ability. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:56:18 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Map scales You know, it's unfortunate, but the various cartographers for Mystara seem to have dropped the ball in many of their map conversions. I think we've pointed out here on the list before the errors in the Norwold conversions from CM1 to DotE, wherein Norwold has come out to different sizes. Lately I noticed the same thing with the Isle of Dawn- if you compare Trail Map 2 with the map of the IoD given in the DotE boxed set, you'll see that the coastline of the Provincia Septentriona came out to a different size in the conversion from 24 mile hexes to 8 mile hexes. Just last night, I was going over the Atruaghin and Sind maps, and noticed that the 24 mile hex map of Sind (from the CoM boxed set) doesn't correspond to the 8 mile hex map of Atruaghin in Gaz14. It stinks, because I think the early maps (the 24 mile hexes) that were done in the X-series of modules all came out pretty well, and the designers of those sets did an excellent job of making sure that the maps from one module to the next would match up really well. It just seems that somewhere during the conversion to 8 mile hexes that things got kind of screwed up... :( Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 21:59:59 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master I was rereading some of the old Princess Ark articles by Bruce Heard last night. It was kind of cool how much he foreshadowed the events of Wrath of the Immortals, well before the boxed set ever hit the stands (even before any sort of hints that it was coming out emerged). The only thing that bothers me is that, throughout the course of the series, the Heldannic Knights have serious dealings with the Master and his minions. It is even said at one point that the Heldannic Knights would aid in the Master's assault, keeping the eastern countries for themselves, and allowing the Master to have the Republic, Shires, and Sind, and that the two would jointly crush the Thyatian Empire. So what happened to this alliance between the series and the boxed set, I wonder? Heldann had no such alliance with the Master in WotI- in fact, they allied with Thyatis against Alphatia. Anyone have any thoughts on the evidently disbanded alliance between Heldann and Hule? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:02:50 -0800 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Rereading the modules X4, X5, and X10 last night. There are lots of hints that the Master is in an alliance with very odd powers. It is mentioned in X5 that he made alliances with "other dimensional" entities. And there is the whole "Soul Gem of Thanatos" bit from X10. Has anyone ever developed these ideas in their campaigns? I've never really bought into the whole Loki/Bozdogan theory myself, as it seemed counter to a lot of what was developed in X4 and X5. Perhaps the other dimensional powers the Master allied himself with were the Outer Beings and/or their minions/allies (such as Thanatos). Does anyone else have any theories on this? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:37:51 +0200 (EET) From: a122286@students.cc.tut.fi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mausoleum of Glantri > Has anyone created anything out of lord Glantri's Mausoleum? My players > show growing intrest on this doorles tower, and I would like to have some > ideas if I must improvise on this. Maybe it is a portal to THE dungeon under GlantriCity, You know the one... Guarded offcource by something they would not even consider attacking. At least not Yet. Also guarded by the magics of the machine, you know wich... So none can teleport in, unless they know rad offcource... Just keep up the interest, never letting they in... :) (eeevil grin...) Pasi - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:40:26 +0200 (EET) From: a122286@students.cc.tut.fi Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Apologia > I'm sorry that several of my messages have been published two or > three times. I apologize for wasting your bandwidth. > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com If it works like Yours, forget it. :) Pasi // I'm sorry, I had to... - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:56:35 +0100 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] >>> zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel Mystarae? >> >>Ack! >> >>I think the appropriate term is Mystaras. :) >> >Why not "Mystari"? :) Or Mystarases? :) Kristian Kramer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 03:06:05 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > >>> zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel >Mystarae? > >>I think the appropriate term is Mystaras. :) > >> >>Why not "Mystari"? :) >Or Mystarases? :) Depend : If Mystara daoes come from Latin word : Mystara , ae, f : Mystara => 1st declination => many mystarae Not mystari as i is plural of 2nd declination (ex dominus, i ,m : master) Mystaras : Accusativ plural of Mystara , ae, f Mystarases : Plural of 5th declination (ex dies, diei, f : day) Sorry for such short latin lesson ;^) but it may annoy you. Friendly Marcus, i, m : Marc-Antoine Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund //www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #140 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 141 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Forwarded Message [MYSTARA] - Troop movements [MYSTARA] - Troop movements 2/3 [MYSTARA] - Troop movements 3/3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:32:58 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Forwarded Message On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: Hello Daniel, Welcome back to the list! > Simply put, I want to create an accurate, 3D computer model of Mystara > (and its sun, moons, and the other planets), including such data as > Matera's rise-and-set times, the Floating Continents orbits, and scanned > surface maps laid onto the right places. I want this model to be in a > format that will be readable and usable 10 and more years from now, but, > as I've never even looked at a 3D model program (unless you count watching > episodes of Reboot), I have no idea what formats are available. One > concern I have is the copyright and trademark issues for such a model; if > anybody else expresses interest in helping me create this thing, I intend > to ask TSR and/or WotC for their comments. This sounds interesting. I hope someone more competent than I will give you whatever help you need. I for sure would be interested in seeing the finished model. :) Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:36:32 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements TROOP MOVEMENTS & WAR MACHINE BATTLES AC 1010 Armies are in the format: Name (Troop Class; Personnel; Battle Rating). Most army stats are only presented when the army is first introduced and should be changed according to losses, reinforcements, etc. Outcomes according to history have been given along with my notes. War Machine rules are found in the D&D Companion set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. Siege Rules are found in the Master set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. The Sea Machine rules can be found in M1: Into the Maelstrom as well as M2: Vengeance of Alphaks. NUWMONT 1010 10 Thyatis launches to Isle of Dawn: 4th fleet (Fair; 1,600; 89) & Newly commisioned 3rd, 6th, 17th, 19th fleets (Average; 421; 95) [This force will now be known as 4th fleet & complement] Thyatis launches to Aegos: 20th fleet (Fair; 1,600; 95) Heldann launches to Aegos: 2nd armada (Good; 830; 114) Minrothad launches to Aegos: 2nd fleet (Good; 1,000; 125) 25 Dunadale: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement battle Dunadale's 4 armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) & 3 Alphatian irregulars (Average; 1,050; 111) Helskir: Heldann's 1st armada (Good; 830; 114) & 1 Eye of Vanya Regiment (Excellent; 25; 123) battle Helskir's 4 armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) Battle indecisive. VATERMONT 1010 8 Helskir/Dunadale: Heldann's 1st armada fights Thyatis' 4th, 3rd, 6th, 17th & 19th fleets Numerous deaths. 11 Aegos: Thyatis' 20th fleet & Minrothad's 2nd fleet attack Aegos' 4 home guards (Poor; 125; 27) Aegos' home guards are defeated. 13 Fort Nikos: Thyatis' 3rd & 4th cohorts (Good; 3,310; 97) fight Mecenaries in Fort Nikos (Fair; 400; 78) Mercenaries defeated. 20 Darokin: Legion of Thar (Elite; 375; 150) overruns Crowlerd village volunteers (Untrained; 30; 16) Biazzan: Thyatis' 3rd & 21st cohorts (Good; 3,310; 97) attack Mercenaries in Biazzan (Fair; 600; 78) Mercenaries fight to the death. 22 Aegos: Heldann's 2nd armada briefly fights Thyatis' 20th fleet & Minrothad's 2nd fleet Heldanners retreat. THAUMONT 1010 1 Landfall: Heldann's 1st-10th Glory of Vania divisions (Excellent; 933; 122) & 4th armada (Good; 830; 114) lay siege to Landfall City & Landfall's 2 guards (Fair; 265; 88) 13 Dunadale: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement attack Surviving Dunadale troops from Nuwmont 25th Dunadale is defeated. 28 Heldann: Ethengar's Keshak (Excellent; 1,052; 175) pillages Grauenberg town in Heldannic Territories No war machine battle. Dunadale: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement attack Surviving Dunadale troops from Thaumont 10th Dunadale falls; Alphatian survivors routed FLAURMONT 1010 9 Gaity: .5 of Thyatis' remaining 20th fleet attack Gaity's 3 home guards (Poor; 165; 27) Gaity is defeated. 13 Grauenberg, Heldann: Heldann's 11th, 13th & 16th Glory of Vania divisions (Excellent; 933; 122) & 1 Eye of Vania regiment (Excellent; 25; 123) attack Ethengar's Keshak 25 East Portage: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement + West Portage's 3 guards (Good; 125; 123) attack East Portage's army (Good; 1,250; 123) East Portage eventually falls. YARTHMONT 1010 8 Notrion: Notrion lower classes and army deserters (Poor; 4,000; 27) rebel and attack Notrion's 3 armies (Average; 625 minus the deserters; 136) 17 Denwarf-Hurgon: Aquas' 6th Army of Seashield (Good; 840; 99) seizes Denwarf-Hurgon Darokin: Legion of Thar attacks Akesoli City Guards (Fair; 248; 73) KLARMONT 1010 16 Ekto: Thytis 4th fleet & complement takes Ekto Ekto's 4 armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) & 1 Alphatian irregular (Average; 1,050; 111) skirmish and retreat to Trikelios 20 Landfall: Heldann's 1st-6th Glory of Vania divisions & 4th armada finally conquer Landfall 21 Alpha: Frost giants (Good; 800; 125) attack Alpha's 5 armies (Fair; 1,060; 83) Frost Giants eventually just go home. FELMONT 1010 2 Notrion: Rebellion is quelled. 14 Heldann: Heldann's 7th-10th Glory of Vania divisions reach Grauenberg area FYRMONT 1010 1 Trikelios: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement attack Trikelios' 5 armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) & 2 Alphatian irregulars (Average; 1,050; 111) & Ekto's 4 armed forces & 1 Alphatian irregular. Alphatians have additional catapults (for +40 BR or so). 8 Surshield: Surshield anarchists (Poor; 20,000; 42) fight Surshield's 4 legions (Average; 1,090; 136) 10 Darokin: Legion of Thar battles III, IV & V divisions of the First Army of Darokin (Fair; 1,160; 73) at the Ithel River, north of Lake Amsorak Thar's forces are driven back. 22 Grauenberg, Heldann: Ethengar's Keshak retreats to Ethengar AMBYRMONT 1010 7 Trikelios: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement besieges Trikelios' units SVIFTMONT 1010 3 Landfall: Heldann's Glory of Vanya divisions settle in Landfall Helskir: Heldann's 1st + ? armadas attack Helskir's 4 armed forces & Thyatis' 9th fleet (Fair; 1,600; 89) & mercenaries and adventurers 4 Surshield: Surshield peaceful again. 6 Rockhome: Rockhome's 1st-10th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) enter Broken Lands 20 Trikelios: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement conquer Trikelios KALDMONT 1010 4 Notrion: Notrion crowds (Poor; 3,000;24) revolt and fight Notrion's 3 armies 17 Five Shires: Five Shires' 1st-4th volunteer regiments (Fair; 994; 80) & Navy (Fair; 800; 88) travels to Black Eagle Barony 23 Black Eagle Barony: Five Shires' Navy & regiments fight Banner of the Black Eagle (Excellent; 1,000; 139) The Banner is defeated. 27 Trikelios: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement settle in Trikelios - -- Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:38:34 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements 2/3 TROOP MOVEMENTS & WAR MACHINE BATTLES AC 1011 Armies are in the format: Name (Troop Class; Personnel; Battle Rating). Most army stats are only presented when the army is first introduced and should be changed according to losses, reinforcements, etc. All troops are presented again, and if the outcomes of battles of the previous year were determined, should be changed to reflect this. Please note that D&D stats have been used to calculate War Machine statistics (as the War Machine was made for D&D and not AD&D). Outcomes according to history have been given along with my notes. War Machine rules are found in the D&D Companion set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. Siege Rules are found in the Master set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. The Sea Machine rules can be found in M1: Into the Maelstrom as well as M2: Vengeance of Alphaks. NUWMONT 1011 1 Rockhome: Rockhome's 11th-15th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) of Everast XV go to Klintest Lowlands Rockhome's 16th-20th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) of Denwarf gather 5 Rockhome: Rockhome's 1st-10th dwarf foot return from Broken Lands 9 Rockhome: Rockhome's Dengar 6th-10th & 16th-20th dwarf foot battle Rockhome's Everast XV 1st-5th & 11th-15th dwarf foot at a pass to klintest Lowlands 27 Rockhome: Legion of Thar (Good; 407; 147), Guards of Ogremoor (Below Average; 400; 53) & War Hordes of the Great Crater (Good; 2,253; 121) [Legion of Thar & complement] overrun Fort Denwarf garrison (Good; 248; 98) VATERMONT 1011 5 Rockhome: Legion of Thar & complement attack Stahl city guards (Good; 496; 98) Stahl falls. 6 Rockhome: Legion of Thar & complement battle Rockhome's Denwarf + Everast XV 1st-20th dwarf foot Thar is driven out. 14 Black Eagle Barony: Five Shires' Navy (Fair; 800; 88) & Shire Strikers (Average; 239; 135) fight Fort Doom humanoids (Below Average; 750; 52) Fort Doom falls. Western Sea of Dawn: Heldann's 1st armada (Good; 830; 114) loses 25% troops to a blizzard 28 Black Eagle Barony: Five Shires' forces in return to Five Shires THAUMONT 1011 14 Heldann: Heldann's 1st armada returns home 19 Heldann & Landfall: Heldann's 1st-5th Glory of Vanya divisions (Excellent; 933; 122) & Ethengar's raiders (Good; 1,052; 120) march to Oceansend Heldann's 6th-10th Glory of Vanya & 2nd + 3rd armada sail to Oceansend FLAURMONT 1011 6 Oceansend: Heldann's 2nd & 3rd armadas reach Oceansend 11 Oceansend: Heldann's 6th-10th Glory of Vanya divisions besiege Oceansend's 4 divisions (Fair; 1,060; 83) 16 Vestland: Thar's orc bands (Below Average; 300; 60) skirmish Hammersted village folk (Below Average; 75; 58) Hammersted area is pillaged. 18 Oceansend: Heldann's 1st-10th Glory of Vanya divisions & Ethengar's raiders besiege Oceansend's 4 divisions YARTHMONT 1011 10 Vestland: Thar orc bands ransack Hammersted 14 Rockhome: Rockhome's 1st-10th dwarf foot return to Broken Lands 16 Dawnrim: Aquas' 3 armies (Good; 840; 115) take Town of Bridgeport (no fighting, the town surrenders) 22 Near Oceansend: Alpha's Navy (Fair; 236; 78) engages Regiment 1 & 3 of Heldann's 2nd armada KLARMONT 1011 2 Oceansend: Alpha's mercenaries (Fair; 1,058; 92) & Oceansend's 4 armies fight Heldann's 1st-5th Glory of Vanya divisions 3 Dawnrim: Aquas' 3 armies take Alinquin 15 Thothia: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement fight Thothia's undead forces (Good; 1,275; 140) & special forces (Elite; 491; 343) 18 Notrion: Aquas' 3 armies & 1st regiment of Dawnrim's Navy (Average; 78; 95) take Notrion 26 Notrion: Horken's 2nd Navy (Average; 421; 95) joins with Aquas' armies FELMONT 1011 2 Thothia: Thyatis' 4th fleet & complement are routed in Edairo 17 Oceansend: Heldann's 2 regiments of Eye of Vanya bombard Oceansend 22 Oceansend: 5 large red dragons (Elite; 5; 575) [I know you shouldn't use War Machine for dragons, this was just for kicks_] attack Heldann's 2 regiments of an Eye of Vanya division (Good; 62; 139) 1 dragon is seriously wounded, Heldann forces retreat. FYRMONT 1011 1 Thothia: Thothia's 3 armed forces (Average; 1,460; 115) & 3 naval forces (Average; 840;108) & undead forces march to Trikelios 13 Near Trikelios: Thothia's 2 naval forces & 19th Imperial Alphatian fleet fight Thyatis' 4th fleet Thyatis loses 30% of the troops. Thothia loses 10% (as per difference 25-30 on War Machine Results Table [Rules Cyclopedia p. 120] or 39-50 on the Naval Combat Result Table [M1 p. 4 or M2 p. 24]). 19 Oceansend: Heldann's 4 regiments of Eye of Vanya battle 5 large red dragons 3 dragons are killed, 2 routed. 3 Heldann regiments are forced to retreat. One remains. 20 Isle of Dawn: Thyatis' 6th & 17th Imperial fleets desert to Thothia Thyatis' 3rd Imperial fleet returns home Thyatis' 18th, 21st & 22nd fleets launch to Isle od Dawn Thyatis sends .5 of 20th fleet (Fair; 800; 89) to Trikelios AMBYRMONT 1011 10 Thyatis City: Mobs (Untrained; 15,000; 18) fight Thyatis' 1st Imperial cohort (Elite; 3,310; 126) & 3rd cohort (Good; 3,310; 97) Riots quelled. 15 East of Trikelios: Thothia's armed forces fight Thyatis' Redstone armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) & Westrourke armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) Thyatis loses 10% of troops before retreating. 18 Near Edairo: Thyatis' .5 of 20th fleet engages Thothia's 2 naval forces Thyatis loses 10th regiment (311 troops or 40%) 19 Trikelios: Thyatis' forces retreat to Ekto SVIFTMONT 1011 9 Oceansend: Heldann's 1st-6th & 8th-10th Glory of Vanya divisions & Ethengar's raiders destroy Alpha's mercenaries Oceansend's 4 armies battle Heldann's 7th Glory of Vanya division Heldann's forces are routed. Oceansend's 4 armies are bombarded by Heldann's 1 regiment of an Eye of Vanya division Oceansend takes 20% casualties. 11 Ekto Bay: Thyatis' 4th fleet, .5 of 20th fleet & 18th fleet are sunk by Thothia's 3 naval forces & 6th, 17th & 19th Alphatian irregulars & 3 Alphatian irregulars (Fair; 1,307; 100) 16 Eastern Sea of Dawn: Thyatis' 21st & 22nd fleets engage Thothia's 3 naval forces East Portage: Thothia's 3 Alphatian irregulars harass Thyatis' forces Oceansend: Oceansend's forces surrender to Heldann EIRMONT 1011 1 Ekto: Thothia's undead forces attack Thyatis' remnants of 4th, 18th & .5 of 20th fleet & 2 West Portage city guards & Redstone armed forces & Westrourke armed forces Thothia withdraws. 2 East Portage: Thothia's 3 Alphatian irregulars take East Portage KALDMONT 1011 11 East Portage: Thyatis reinforces East Portage with 11th cohort (Good; 3,310; 97) & 2 Kendach armed forces (Good; 1,250; 123) Thothia reinforces East Portage with 1 armed forces & mercenary Alphatian replacements 12 Ekto: Thothia's 4 armed forces & undead forces battle Thyatis' 11th cohort with complement & 4th fleet with complement 4th fleet with complement is routed. 11th cohort retreats to Ekto's keep. 28 Thyatis City: Slaves & gladiators (Fair; 25,000; 71) revolt and fight Thyatis' 1st & 2nd Imperial Cohorts (Elite; 3,310; 126) + 3rd, 4th, 5th, 7th & 9th Imperial Cohorts (Good; 3,310; 97) - -- Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:40:16 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements 3/3 TROOP MOVEMENTS & WAR MACHINE BATTLES AC 1012 Armies are in the format: Name (Troop Class; Personnel; Battle Rating). Army stats are only presented when the army is first introduced and should be changed according to losses, reinforcements, etc. Please note that stats of armies that participated in battles the previous year have not been reintroduced, and should be used as they were at the end of the previous year. Please note that D&D stats have been used to calculate War Machine statistics (as the War Machine was made for D&D and not AD&D). Outcomes according to history have been given along with my notes. War Machine rules are found in the D&D Companion set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. Siege Rules are found in the Master set as well as the Rules Cyclopedia. The Sea Machine rules can be found in M1: Into the Maelstrom as well as M2: Vengeance of Alphaks. NUWMONT 1012 5 Ekto: Thothia's forces take Ekto after two previous failed attempts this year. 9 South of Surshield: Aquas' 3 armies & Horken's 2nd navy fight Surshield's 4 fleets (Average; 1,037; 95) Surshield retreats. 15 Thyatis City: Riots started last year finally quelled. 17 Karameikos: Frost giants (Good; 12; 159) capture Karameikos' 4th division (Average; 164; 97) (1/3 are sick) Karameikans defeated (loses 20%) and are taken prisoner. 27 Vestland: Thar's orc bands (Average; 350; 88) attack Kirken village (Below Average; 80; 58) Thar plunders the village and escape into the mountains. VATERMONT 1012 26 Broken Lands: Aengmor's II legion (Average; 510; 149) enters Broken Lands THAUMONT 1012 1 Ekto: Thothia releases Thyatian prisoners of war 2 Eastern Sea of Dawn: Pirates (Fair; 400; 84) attack Thothia's naval forces (Average; 840; 108) Thothia launches 2 additional naval forces 23 Oenkmar: Rockhome's 1st dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) fights Defenders of Oenkmar (Average; 2,037; 95) 24 Oenkmar: Rockhome's 3rd dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) enters Oenkmar 27 Oenkmar: Rockhome's 4th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) enters Oenkmar FLAURMONT 1012 3 Broken Lands: Aengmor's I, II & IV (Average; 510; 149) legions attack Rockhome's 8th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) in Broken Lands' tunnels 5 Oenkmar: Rockhome's 1st, 3rd & 4th dwarf foot take Oenkmar 8 Oenkmar: City of the Stars' I, II & III legions (Average; 510; 149) battle Rockhome's 1st, 3rd & 4th dwarf foot Rockhome forces are driven back. 11 Broken Lands: Rockhome's 5th & 6th dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) engage Aengmor's I, II & IV legions & City of the Stars' I, II & III legions YARTHMONT 1012 25 Denwarf-Hurgon: Aquas' 6th army recalled 28 Oenkmar: City of the Stars' IV & V legions (Average; 510; 149) enter Oenkmar KLARMONT 1012 2 Darokin: Aengmor's III & V legions battle Darokin's II legion (Excellent; 1,091; 182), XIII Legion (Fair; 1,160; 73) & Ylaruam's division (Fair; 754; 86) & Five Shires' 3rd volunteer regiment (Fair; 994; 80) & Karameikos' 9th & 10th militia (Average; 996; 108) Aengmor loses 100, others 200 troops. 16 Oenkmar: Aengmor's III & V legions arrive in Oenkmar FELMONT 1012 2 Oenkmar: Alebane's war hordes (Good; 2,253; 121) fights Aengmor's I-V legions & City of the Star's I-V legions & Rockhome's 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th & 8th dwarf foot Aengmor & Rockhome forces also engage each other. Alebane gains terrain. 3 Oenkmar: Shadow Elf forces retreat from Oenkmar 10 Oenkmar: Rockhome's 2nd dwarf foot (Good; 1,250; 98) & mercenaries (Fair; 500; 99) in Oenkmar 11 Oenkmar: Rockhome's forces retreat from Oenkmar 20 Faraway: Faraway Jennites (Untrained; 13,000; 18) rebel against Faraway city troops (Good; 2,500; 126) 28 Skyfyr: Skyfyr Jennites & free Alphatians (Below Average; 6,000; 60) rebel against Skyfyr city troops (Good; 1,000; 126) FYRMONT 1012 12 Skyfyr: Skyfyr rebels go undercover 17 Oenkmar: Alebane's war hordes storm Defenders of Oenkmar 20 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Soderfjord's Ragnar's brigade (Good; 882; 102) enters Hardanger Mountains AMBYRMONT 1012 2 Faraway: Faraway city troops slaughter Rebel forces in Faraway 3 Soderfjord jarldoms: Ragnar's brigade's 1st regiment (Good; 124; 102) fights Hardanger kobolds (Fair; 250; 79) 10 Denwarf-Hurgon: Aquas' 5th & 6th armies arrive 12 Oenkmar: Alebane's war hordes conquer Oenkmar 14 Oenkmar: City of the Stars' I-V legions assault Alebane's war hordes & defenders of Oenkmar Humanoids are driven back. 16 Oenkmar: Shadow Elf forces take Oenkmar 25 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Ragnar's Brigade fights Hardanger humanoids (Average; 1,500; 84) Ragnar retreats. SVIFTMONT 1012 1 Skyfyr: Aquas' 2nd, 3rd & 4th armies return to Aquas 9 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Ragnar's brigade & Vandrad's & Solvi's brigades (Fair; 882; 65) [Ragnar's brigade & complements] enter Hardanger Mountains 13 Skyfyr: Skyfyr's city troops retake Skyfyr 23 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Ragnar's brigade & complements face Humanoids of Hardanger Mountains (Average; 4,000; 84) KALDMONT 1012 5 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Ragnar's brigade & complements in avalanche; 10% are killed 8 Soderfjord Jarldoms: Ragnar's brigade & complements retreat to Soderfjord - -- Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #141 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 142 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: using the Great Order. Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master [MYSTARA] - 3d mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:42:08 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Rereading the modules X4, X5, and X10 last night. There are lots of hints > that the Master is in an alliance with very odd powers. It is mentioned in > X5 that he made alliances with "other dimensional" entities. And there is > the whole "Soul Gem of Thanatos" bit from X10. Other Dimensions? Sounds like our favourite Carnifex to me... > Has anyone ever developed these ideas in their campaigns? I've never really > bought into the whole Loki/Bozdogan theory myself, as it seemed counter to > a lot of what was developed in X4 and X5. I dont care much for Loki/Bozdogan myself. Im planning to have Loki Imprisoned IMC, leaving room for some new guys. Maybe Thanatos or maybe Atzanteotl. Ive been thinking about some closer cooperation between these two. > Perhaps the other dimensional powers the Master allied himself with were > the Outer Beings and/or their minions/allies (such as Thanatos). Does > anyone else have any theories on this? Well, that certainly is possible. If anyone has any constructive ideas on how to bring the Outer Beings/minions into Mystara using the Master as a basis, id love to hear it. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 05:06:23 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Haavard wrote today : >Well, that certainly is possible. If anyone has any constructive ideas on >how to bring the Outer Beings/minions into Mystara using the Master as a >basis, id love to hear it. It reminds me the book called Dark knight of Karameikos ... May be you read it ... The master may even been unaware he's manipulated by this extra planar being. At last this being will have to fight many immortals if he want to get Mystara. One question : - Does an immortal gain power being preyed ? - Can he lose some when not ? - Can he even "die" if he's forgotten by evry one ? (eg trapped by someone or something ... immortal life trapping power of artifact for instance). Have a good day, Marcus from Traladara Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:21:09 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > > > Haavard wrote today : > >Well, that certainly is possible. If anyone has any constructive ideas > on > >how to bring the Outer Beings/minions into Mystara using the Master as > a > >basis, id love to hear it. > > It reminds me the book called Dark knight of Karameikos ... May be you > read it ... The master may even been unaware he's manipulated by this > extra planar being. My only probøem with Dark Knight of Karameikos is that it was too Planescapeish. I dont really have anything against Planascape, but mixing it with Mystara cause alot of problems. Problems that the novel ignored. :( You idea is good though. Maybe Dark Knight of Karameikos actually inovled the Outer Beings aswell? Anyone wanna rewrite it? > At last this being will have to fight many immortals if he want to get > Mystara. Sounds very interesting. This would give us a chance to kill of a few of the least interesting Immortals too... > One question : - Does an immortal gain power being preyed ? > - Can he lose some when not ? > - Can he even "die" if he's forgotten by evry one ? (eg trapped by > someone or something ... immortal life trapping power of artifact for > instance). Immortals fade away if they are forgotten. So their existance depends on them being remembered by their followers. However, other than that, there is no connection between the power of the Immortal and his followers. In the rules that is. I suspect that an immortal´s power grows or weakens according to his followers, but that this was dropped from the rules, not to make things too complicated. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 14:43:18 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Ordo Magna: using the Great Order. On Sun, 21 Mar 1999, James Ruhland wrote: > The Ordo Magna (aka The Great Order or simply The Order). Very Cool! There could be a group of these stirring up trouble in Karameikos, trrying to get the Thyatians to reconquer the young kingdom. I´m pro Thyatis btw, Id join the order today if I could. :) One suggestion Id like to make is that you change the names of the cells into titles from the Knights Templar, rather than modern military titles.. Otherwise; great work. Id loke to see The Order play an active role in reestablishing Thyatian power on the mainland. Forget about the lost colonies. Conquer Ylaruam! :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 06:02:47 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master >Immortals fade away if they are forgotten. So their existance depends on them being remembered by their followers. However, other than that, there is no connection between the power of the Immortal and his followers. In the rules that is. I suspect that an immortal´s power grows or weakens according to his followers, but that this was dropped from the rules, not to make things too complicated. That's very interessing point of view ... Story that can be writen around all of this ... An extraplanar Being, after having watched a long time to find weak point of the immortals try to kill them. How ? Just by making them forgotten ... To do this, he creates someones that will become the precursor of a new religion, a religion where a single god is reverred, where the others (immortals & other gods) have no place and are rejected. At first, this man won't interrest anybody, but he will be persecuted by the master, and will manage to escape all the traps set against him. Because he's persecuted, he'll be listened by anyone who don't like the Master (and there're many). He'll gain followers and may become as popular as were Jesus on Earth. It's clear this is based from facts that happened in 1012 or 1010 (don't truly remember) in Sind ... The master can be aware or not of what he's doing ... After all when the whome continent won't believe in the Immortals, it will be simple for him to crush such belief in his own land. Then can the Extra-Mystaran Being come without threat of the immortals. What do you think about this ? Possible ? Crazy ? IMO enough crazy for a chaotic being ... Marcus Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 15:19:34 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > That's very interessing point of view ... > Story that can be writen around all of this ... > > An extraplanar Being, after having watched a long time to find weak > point of the immortals try to kill them. How ? Just by making them > forgotten ... > To do this, he creates someones that will become the precursor of a > new religion, a religion where a single god is reverred, where the > others (immortals & other gods) have no place and are rejected. At > first, this man won't interrest anybody, but he will be persecuted by > the master, and will manage to escape all the traps set against him. > Because he's persecuted, he'll be listened by anyone who don't like the > Master (and there're many). He'll gain followers and may become as > popular as were Jesus on Earth. An interesting and really scary perspective Marc :) > It's clear this is based from facts that happened in 1012 or 1010 > (don't truly remember) in Sind ... The master can be aware or not of > what he's doing ... After all when the whome continent won't believe in > the Immortals, it will be simple for him to crush such belief in his own > land. Then can the Extra-Mystaran Being come without threat of the > immortals. You are talking about Gareth? This is interesting... > What do you think about this ? Possible ? Crazy ? > IMO enough crazy for a chaotic being ... Perfectly possible. But it requires alot of knowledge for a single mortal... Also, whatabout followers on other Planets/planes? IMC, Followers on other Planes dont count, but followers on other planets do. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 16:38:14 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3d mystara Welcome back Daniel - it's always good to see old faces from the early days of the MML come back! (especially since I always wondered why you had disappeared) <> Looong ago (when the list was young, actually), I myself contemplated the idea of doing something like that, but I too let the idea slip away because it'd be a lot of work. At the time I considered doing it in VRML, so that it could be viewed on the web. I don't know of the exact possibilities of VRML and other web 3d languages, but I hope some of them allow you to play the sequence at the speed you want, zooming in and out, and changing the camera viewpoint. Otherwise you can use more complete softwares, like 3ds or pov for example (these have been mentioned already) but at the cost of not deing able to display them online. I wonder what can be done with Catia. My sister works for Dassault on the sowftware, and though it's designed to modelize things like cars or planes and other mechanical stuff, I wonder if it can be used for Mystara... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 07:40:06 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master >From: Håvard_Rønne_Faanes >An interesting and really scary perspective Marc :) Just have the same feeling of Jupiter/Zeus on Earth in 100-400 : be the greatest during 1500 years and shade just because of the death of a single man ... [it's a point of view of Zeus not mine ... mine isn't interessing here] >> It's clear this is based from facts that happened in 1012 or 1010 >> (don't truly remember) in Sind ... The master can be aware or not of >> what he's doing ... After all when the whome continent won't believe in >> the Immortals, it will be simple for him to crush such belief in his own >> land. Then can the Extra-Mystaran Being come without threat of the >> immortals. >You are talking about Gareth? >This is interesting... Yes ... i've just forgotten his name. I dislike using Gareth IMC as it burries many facts : there's one god OR many immortals but not both >> What do you think about this ? Possible ? Crazy ? >> IMO enough crazy for a chaotic being ... >Perfectly possible. But it requires alot of knowledge for a single >mortal... Gareth is perhaps not a "mortal" >Also, whatabout followers on other Planets/planes? IMC, Followers on other Planes dont count, but followers on other planets do. IMC an Immortal may act where they've followers ... say within 500 km around ... An immortal will not die IMO if he has no follower but be forgotten and unablbe to come back ... unless a special events. Have a good day, Marcus Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:48:33 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > After calling what I've written a lie, you'd better prepair yourself to > defend the merits of everything you have written on that website. You have > a week. Then the critique will begin. > > Or, you can appologize for your slander, something I know you'll likely not > do considering your personal character. Hey, my stuff was before yours, do you remember? When you state that Bellissaria was populated before the Alphatians came you call ME a liar. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:44:13 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > When the first expedition landed on Bellissaria the whole > > island was uninhabited. > > > > You don't believe me? > > > Of course I don't believe you. You're a propagandist. As a fellow > propagandist I see your charade for what it is: duplicity. You'd have us > believe no one lived anywhere the Alphatians now rule in order to justify > their Imperialism, when what is most likely true is that they simply wiped > out or enslaved those they encountered, or (like the Yaniffey) pushed them > asside. If you really think THAT? Oh no, my good propagandist, I'm telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Fact is that there were the Thothians on the Isle of Dawn, but they had been grossly reduced when we decided to colonize the island. The Alatians were thinly populated, and the Pearl Islands were populated much more. In Esterhold we burned down Skyfyr, and we even had to fight enemies on the Alphatian mainland and on the island of Queodhar. But Bellissaria was absolutely unpopulated. This is not too surprising as only 2000 years ago the world had made the experience of a gigantic cataclysm. Perhaps with some more time Mystaran natives would habe settled Bellissaria but it had simply not yet occured when the expedition fleet landed. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 17:49:59 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > Like, I don't get it! > > (said in best valley girl voice) I beg your pardon? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:02:20 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > I think the appropriate term is Mystaras. :) Obviously you are from another parallel world than Jonathan! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:11:05 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > Yes, we won't get too far maintaining campaigns in a dead game setting if > the 'Mystara Papacy' as I have called it in the past tries to wipe out > what others write. Why can't Jamuga "we chermanz arent all smilez und > zunshine" Khan et al just assume that there are many parallel Mystarae? > Some of which will be congruent with theirs, some of which won't. Works > for me. Well, guess in which Mystara I don't want to live... But the real problem is to integrate those stuff you like into your Mystara without using those you don't like especially when those is mixed up by some or even one author. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:38:04 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > Don't worry, it won't be the first time. And not the last time. > As you know, I don't take that kind of crap from anyone, least of all > people like Jamuga Khan. He has in the past called what others have written > lies (if he doesn't like what it is, at least) and been one of the foremost > in crys of "not canonical!" (again, when it comes to things he doesn't > like). No one that I know has given him a taste of his own medicine. It's > about time he learned what it feels like. Oh, your medicine is much more bitter I assure you. Unfortunately nobody have give you your own one yet - me included. > I'm fairminded though. He has a week to gather information to support > everything he has written and posted with appropriate references to canon > (and it better be backed up by canon, Jamuga: live by the sword, die by the > sword). Why should I do that? Even with the best arguments you would argue again and again until I would get tired and give up. > *And even so, many people consider it fair to re-interpret "canon" > materiels and to modify them to suit their own tastes, and then share that > interpretation with others in a forum such as this. However, since Jamuga > is among the first to step forward to critique people who do that, at least > if he doesn't like the outcome, and hide behind the shield of canon, well > he doesn't have a privilege to do what he will not permit others to do. James, I have already re-interpreted canon by myself so why do you say such things about me? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:05:19 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master >>> After all when the whole continent won't believe >in >>> the Immortals, it will be simple for him to crush such belief in his >own >>> land. Then can the Extra-Mystaran Being come without threat of the >>> immortals. I don't know if it's a question of crushing "belief" in the Immortals -- it's pretty hard to deny they exist, given that (unlike Zeus et al) they're always manifesting and granting spells and otherwise demonstrating their presence/power! -- so much as convincing the mortal population that Immortals aren't deserving of all the worship they've garnered in the past. Given how badly Immortals' irresponsible actions trashed the landscape in WotI, thus implying they're a bunch of ruthless cads, this might well be the perfect time for such an "anti-Immortal" faith (bit like the Athar from PS) to take root on Mystara. >>You are talking about Gareth? >>This is interesting... > >Yes ... i've just forgotten his name. I dislike using Gareth IMC as it >buries many facts : there's one god OR many immortals but not both As I've mentioned on the MMB, my theory is that Ann Dupuis introduced Gareth -- actually Benekander -- to give the ol' wrench-slinger something to do, in the Almanacs. Given how big a role he played in the PCs' view of events, in WotI, she probably figured Benekander HAD to warrant SOME kind of appearance (albeit under an alias) in the PWAs. >IMC an Immortal may act where they've followers ... say within 500 km >around ... An immortal will not die IMO if he has no follower but be >forgotten and unablbe to come back ... unless a special events. The problem with the "Immortals/gods die if they've got no followers" argument, is that it doesn't explain how said Immortals/gods survived, before they'd created and/or recruited a following. After all, most mythologies have deities pre-dating (and usually causing) the appearance of humans, not vice versa. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 13:34:32 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > argument, is that it doesn't explain how said Immortals/gods survived, > before they'd created and/or recruited a following. After all, most Well, I'd assume that there is some leeway to that. Also I'd assume that immortals like Ixion and Thanatos have followers on MANY other worlds, not just Mystara. Hmm.. Thinking about it. Isn't Mystra just an avatar of Valerias? Ethan - Riling up the FR ppl :) - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:40:07 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > But Bellissaria was absolutely unpopulated. This is not > too surprising as only 2000 years ago the world had > made the experience of a gigantic cataclysm. > You will be both asked and required to prove the accuracy of that statement, using only reference to the canon you are constantly beating others over the head with. But, as I said last week, you have five days before you will be called to account, during that time I suggest you prepair yourself fully. Your usual ignorance of the subject you are discussing will no longer suffice. > > Hey, my stuff was before yours, do you remember? > Typical response, exactly what I expected from someone of your character: "I got there first, so no one is allowed to post anything at variance with my stuff. If they do, they are a liar. No one can have a Mystara different than mine, or share it with others. If they do, I will call them names." Yep, that's the Jamuga Klan we've come to know and love. . . . > When you state that Bellissaria was populated before the Alphatians > came you call ME a liar. > As Jonnathan said, there can be many different versions of Mystara. We are *NOT* all forced to adopt your view of everything, whether you posted it "first" or not. I posted my materiel without asking or needing your approval, without expecting you to use it in your campaign in any way. Some people may like what I posted, and use it: it is for that purpose that we have a forum such as this. We do not have a forum such as this so that the "Flighty Khan" can attempt to outlaw any opinions and perspectives that he doesn't like. And, for example, I will not use your version of the Alphatian Grand Council because I do not think it accurately represents the what Alphatian Grand Council is or should be. But until now I said nothing regarding your version, and there may be some, even many, people who *do* like your version and attempt to use it. But, if some day someone else posts a description of the Alphatian Grand Council that is different from yours, who are you to complain? You would have the right to say "I have posted my description of the Alphatian Council on my website, and it is different than yours in these ways, and I disagree with how you described yours for these reasons," but you would *NOT* have the right do declare their version "a legend or lie" simply because it varys from yours. Some people might like that version better than they like yours: you are in no position to declare that version "invalid" simply because you created yours "first" (or posted it on a webpage first and told everyone about it. No doubt there are many people who's versions of the Grand Council as used in their own campaigns predate yours and mine both. SO?) In point of fact, some people might adopt portions of "your" Council and ideas from someone else's description of the Council, and create, in effect, a whole new version with elements of both that they'll use in their campaign. *THAT* is what this forum is for, Jamuga: the exchange and cross-pollination of ideas. This forum, this MML, is *NOT* a place for you to put yourself on a throne as the arbitrar of ideas, the person who gets to decide what is acceptable and what is not. Nothing makes your version of anything nessissarily "better" or more accurate simply because you posted it (rather sloppily) first. So, yes: you typically in effect call others liars when their stuff is not in accordance with "canon," or some other description that has the "Jamuga Stamp of Approval" when you don't like what they wrote. So yes: it is now time for someone to call you on it, and in effect point out that you are both a hypocrite and what you term a "liar" when you respond to others. You go around slandering the work of others, giving no reasons for your criticisms, which are always phrased in the most insulting way possible, and then you adopt the stance that if anyone reacts badly to your words, they are to blame, not you: you're only the "innocent victim" I suppose. > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is {dross, as usual}. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 12:45:00 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > Oh, your medicine is much more bitter I assure you. Unfortunately > nobody have give you your own one yet - me included. > Ok, go for it. > > Why should I do that? Even with the best arguments you would > argue again and again until I would get tired and give up. > Well, firstly I doubt you can generate a rational argument. Your usual method of repartee is simply to try to invalidate anything you dislike with a declarative statement ("an obvious lie!"), but you rarely give any reasons for your disagreement with whatever it is you don't like, perhaps because you have difficulty articulating any. Your "best" arguments are almost always just some emotive cry, backed by nothing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #142 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.