mystara-digest Tuesday, March 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 143 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - First characters RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master [MYSTARA] - House of Glantri, part 4? Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 18:45:40 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: [MYSTARA] - First characters Okay, hasten back to 1980. Oi! My nextdoor neighbor had this nifty purple-bordered box with a red dragon on the cover, and dice like I'd never seen before. I barely remember rolling up a wizard character who actually made it to third level before getting squashed to jelly by an iron golem. What did we know? This was the same character that killed five Chromatic dragons by levitating them into a wall of giant spikes. Never mind that there's only one of the things, and forget about things like magic resistance, this was fun, and Tiamat be damned! We didn't know any better...we were nine, for crying out loud. We've since learned our errors of bookkeeping, and that nextdoor neighbor sold me all of his D&D stuff (though only the 20-sider still lives of all the dice in that set), but the excitement is still fresh, and I live for the exultation of telling a good story, or playing in one. I know this thread died out a few days ago, but I've been out of the country. Maybe next time I'll tell the tale of the wizard who bumped off a party member during a discussion with the party's and DM's approval, or the tale of the hour-long round of combat...stay tuned. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:19:59 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters > -----Original Message----- > From: the Wizard of Frobozz [SMTP:sg96d355@drexel.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 7:46 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - First characters > > Okay, hasten back to 1980. Oi! > [MURPHY Jason] OK it was 1983 for me and i was 12. :) > My nextdoor neighbor had this nifty purple-bordered box with a red dragon > on the cover, and dice like I'd never seen before. I barely remember > rolling up a wizard character who actually made it to third level before > getting squashed to jelly by an iron golem. What did we know? This was > the same character that killed five Chromatic dragons by levitating them > into a wall of giant spikes. Never mind that there's only one of the > things, and forget about things like magic resistance, this was fun, and > Tiamat be damned! We didn't know any better...we were nine, for crying > out loud. > > [MURPHY Jason] My games of that time could only have been characterised as EXTREME munchinism. :) As none of our playing group (of which i was the first) was really interested in playing the rules properly we ended up with some bloody phenominal characters. Our interpretations of the rules led my first character to become an Elf (what else would a munchkin want a fighter mage :)) Anyway within a month or so this elf was about 40th level with about 250 hp. Of course this was all done using just the Basic rule set. Imagin our shock when we read in a newly aquired expert set that elves were restricted to 10th level :( After about 2 years of this munchkinism fun we finally settled down and started taking enjoyment in creating and playing proper campaigns using most, if not all, of the rules. And yes i still have this original elf somewhere. I believe i still have 4 of my original die set as well, although the d20 is so worn down that it take a good 30 seconds to stop rolling :) > We've since learned our errors of bookkeeping, and that nextdoor neighbor > sold me all of his D&D stuff (though only the 20-sider still lives of all > the dice in that set), but the excitement is still fresh, and I live for > the exultation of telling a good story, or playing in one. > > I know this thread died out a few days ago, but I've been out of the > country. > Maybe next time I'll tell the tale of the wizard who bumped off a party > member during a discussion with the party's and DM's approval, or the > tale of the hour-long round of combat...stay tuned. > > --Frobozz-- > [MURPHY Jason] My excuse as well, was out of the country and found this thread on returning. And funnily enough i had a character that became a decidely evil bastard during the playing of Test of the Warlords. I successfully conspired to have one of my fellow characters executed and another banished for treason against Ericall, even though my character was the most treasonous of all and sided with Thyatis when the war began :) Ahh the nostalgia of it all :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 21:00:51 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Frederic Ferro wrote: > > This is a list of some Dragons of Mystara whose names are known. > This includes mainly the Dragon Rulers of the Known World (Dragon #170) > and characters in Gunnarson's novels _Dragonlord of Mystara_. > Some names or events are not canonical but just pleased me. > This compilation had contributions by members of the MML > including Sharon Dornhoff, Haavard Faanes, Jamugha Khan, Solmyr > and many others. As usual, corrections or additions are encouraged. > > Jaelynix: Blue female, Sind (Dragon Magazine #170) While its not out of the realm of possibility, I doubt that I would have named a dragon after one TSR created and placed it in the same area. If someone can check that DRAGON, I'm fairly sure you won't find Jaelynix :) Reminds me... I need to work on her some more... - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:58:54 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Greetings Mystarans >From: Sharon Dornhoff >I don't know if it's a question of crushing "belief" in the Immortals - -- it's pretty hard to deny they exist, given that (unlike Zeus et al) they're always manifesting and granting spells and otherwise demonstrating their presence/power! -- so much as convincing the mortal population that Immortals aren't deserving of all the worship they've garnered in the past. >Given how badly Immortals' irresponsible actions trashed the landscape in WotI, thus implying they're a bunch of ruthless cads, this might well be the perfect time for such an "anti-Immortal" faith (bit like the Athar from PS) to take root on Mystara. I thought that woti was an exeption : were not Immortals defended to act directly on Mystara ? I thought they have to use their priests and followers to achieve their goals. IMO WotI is a major transgresion to the rule they set about intervention on Mystara... I'm perhaps wrong ? >As I've mentioned on the MMB, my theory is that Ann Dupuis introduced Gareth -- actually Benekander -- to give the ol' wrench-slinger something to do, in the Almanacs. Given how big a role he played in the PCs' view of events, in WotI, she probably figured Benekander HAD to warrant SOME kind of appearance (albeit under an alias) in the PWAs. Alas i didn't read it ... >The problem with the "Immortals/gods die if they've got no followers" argument, is that it doesn't explain how said Immortals/gods survived, before they'd created and/or recruited a following. After all, most mythologies have deities pre-dating (and usually causing) the appearance of humans, not vice versa. IMO, the major parts of immortals were humans before becoming immortals : they were not there before human exists ! More, unlike gods, immortal have been mortals ! Gods are, have already been and still be mortals ! IMO there's a hierarchy : mortals < immortals < gods/deity I've always thought that the "Old Ones" were some gods playing with mortals and immortals (kind of experiment for them) and stay hidden, trying to amuse themselves by creting some "attraction" to their "creation". Who knows what they are and who ? Who realy cares ? Immortals ? Well it'd be perhaps why some of them on't remember some of their past and are so crazy ... they may have found ! Mystara's protection, that is so special, may be created by these gods to prevent other gods to interfer (Is it an English word ?) with their experiment ... Waw ... i've now a headache ... have a good day Marcus Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 15:28:42 +0200 (EET) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Glantri, part 4? Alexander Glantri Alexander Glantri was 30-years old when he was declared to be Duke of Glantri after his mothers death. He was of medium height and plain looking, but when he started to speak his charisma was overpowering. When people met him first time he at first seemed to be just a one more clumsy fighter. But that was all forgotten when Alexander get a chance to talk about future, his dreams, his plans for Highlands. After Hadriana had left Alexander with the di Sfonti family, Matteo di Sfonti had raised him like his own son. Matteo had 7 chilren of his own, 5 sons and 2 daughters, and Alexander had quite a happy childhood with them. When Alexander grew up, Matteo soon realised that he had more talent for military matters than any of his sons and although not as intelligent than some of them he had more wisdom than all of his son together had. So before Alexander had turned 20, he was already commanding the remaining troops of di Sfonti's. Alexander Glantri was first amongst the rebel leaders to took up the difficult question about the future of the Highlands in 814: What they will do after they have vanquished Halzunthram? Others have been avoiding this question so far in fear of breaking the alliance. Only sure thing was the promise that had been made to Tulai Virayana, leader of the Ethengarians, that they get the area of their own at the western side of Colossus Mountains. And even that was something that the Flaems had difficult to accept. But Alexander Glantri's strong vision of multiracial Highlands was something that broke the opposition even the most of the Flaemish leaders. Besides that Matteo di Sfonti's and Don Fernando de Belcadiz's diplomatic skills were crucial to keeping alliance together in 810's. When Wilhelm von Drachenfels contacted rebels secretly in 813, Don Fernando and Alexander persuaded other leaders to took this seriously. Don Fernando supported the negotiations because in his opinion there were no harm even if this was some plot of Halzunthram and Alexander because he wanted to believe that Wilhelm was as tired to the war as he himself was. This was most serious flaw in the character of Alexander Glantri, he wanted to believe others and the purity of their motives. After 818 the war began at last to go clearly against Halzunthram, rebels were harassing his troops everywhere. Then in 820 Halzunthram found out about Wilhelm von Drachenfels's betrayal. Wilhelm was forced to switch side openly. Next year Don Fernando de Belcadiz at last succeeded to persuade Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany to join the rebels. Also at the same year some of the Alphatians lead by one Vortram, who's father had been made Count of Silverstone by Halzunthram in 803, decide to join the rebels in hoping that they end the war. All seemed to be lost for Halzunthram, but then he brought again fresh troops from Alphatia and managed to keep fighting. In 822 his troops capture Matteo di Sfonti, who is returning from Linden where he has been negotiating with the Flaems. Matteo is promptly executed for high treason. After this Alexander Glantri is clearly leader of the rebels, even the Flaems recognize this. War goes on still for six years. Halzunthram's troops are slowly pushed back everywhere, separated and hunted down. Finally in 828 Halzunthram's headquarters are found. In the ensuing battle, both sides have great casualties. One of the losses is Galeazzo di Sfonti, Matteo's eldest son, who had followed his as a leader of di Sfonti family. Battle was over after Alexander Glantri personally captured Halzunthram, who tried to escape. Others wanted to execute Halzunthram immediately, but Alexander refused that and said they should give him a fair trial later. Republic of Highlands After the war began hard negotiations of the future. Alexander's ideas about multiracialism was accepted by everyone. Biggest disappointment for Alexander was the refuse of the elves to join the Republic. Also Etienne d'Ambreville refused when asked to join the negotiations. Hardest part was to convince Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany of the advantages of joining, but in the end that was achieved. It was also very hard for Alexander to got others to accept the right for Alphatians, both those who join the rebels and those who supported Halzunthram till the end, to stay in Republic. In the end Alexander with the support of Wilhelm von Drachenfels succeeded also in this. At the first meeting of the new Council Alexander was chosen as a Chancellor of the Council. Others also decided against his will to rename Braejr as Glantri City. Also in the first meeting of the House of Lords Alexander was given a title of Archduke of Westheath, he was to be a first amongst the nobles of the Republic. During the next years Alexander Glantri concentrated his efforts to creation of diplomatic relations with Darokin and Thyatis. There weren't any problems with these two countries so task was relatively easy. Much harder were negotiations with imprisoned Halzunthram about relations with Alphatia. He also send some Alphatians back to Sundsvall to obtain recognition of the independence of the Highlands. Finally in 833 Alphatia withdraw all claims and at the same year Halzunthram was released and send back to Alphatia. In 832 Alexander Glantri married Julia di Sfonti, Matteo's younger daughter. They have grown together and this marriage had been in the air already over 10 years, but first there was a war and then Alexander was busy with the creation of the country. But at last in 832 they decided that now was the time to settle down. Next year was born their son Alexius. In 835 Alexander began to get some very disturbing information from Boldavia. At last he connected his mothers condition for his staying with Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany. He contacted Morphail and presented the information he had got to him. Alexander demanded explanation and hinted about his suspicion concerning his mother. Morphail of course denied everything with very arrogant manner. Alexander told to Morphail that he is going to examine the matter until he finds the truth. Alexander Glantri died in Council meeting at the end of 835 at the age of 47. Alphatian member of the Council suddenly blasted him to the ashes. Also Birkai Virayana is killed in ensuing fight before Vortram is captured. For some reason three remaining member, Morphail, Frederick Vlaardoen and Wilhelm von Drachenfels didn't want to examine the matter more and execute Vortram the day after. Alexander is succeeded in Council by Lucchino di Sfonti, Matteo's fourth son. The following week Council pass a law in memoriam of Alexander Glantri and the land is officially renamed Republic of Glantri. They also decide to start building a mausoleum to him in the Glantri City. Alexius Glantri Alexander's son Alexius was only 2-years old when his father died. His mother Julia was to be ruler of Westheath till Alexius comes of age. Julia had idolised his husband and she raised his son in this idolising. When he grew everybody saw that he was externally his fathers image. Difference was that he didn't have his fathers mental capacities. He was rash, hard headed youth, bend on partying and other indescribable vices with some of his cousins. Alexius took the title from his mother in 853. Next year after the death of his uncle Giovanni di Sfonti, he demanded the place in the Council for himself. He was however passed by in favour of his cousin Matteo di Sfonti. This cooled his relations with di Sfonti's somewhat. Alexius renewed his claim after Matteo di Sfonti's murder in the first day of 855. But Thyatians and Kerendans couldn't decide about their Council member for three months because of the infighting amongst the di Sfontis. Finally there were only his other cousin Borso di Sfonti left and the decision was between them. Alexius was again disappointed when Borso was chosen. When the Council announced their Light of Rad decision in 858, Alexius was first to raise his voice against it. He declared that this was not was his father had in mind for the country and that he wouldn't accept the decision. Alexius was logical choice to lead a rebellion but their numbers were too few and he didn't have his fathers military skills. He had to fled to Darokin in 859. He lived there rest of his life, gaining minor fief at the border of Five Shires. He died in 889 at the age of 56. Summary Carlo Glantri b.650 d.711 Tiberio Glantri b.694 d.734 Claudio Glantri b.716 d.789 First Count Glantri Titus Glantri b.722 d.797 First Duke Glantri Hadriana Glantri b.755 d.818 Alexander Glantri b.788 d.835 First Archduke of Westheath Chancellor of the Council 829-835 Alexius Glantri b.833 d.889 Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 17:15:06 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Mon, 22 Mar 1999, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > >From: Håvard_Rønne_Faanes > >An interesting and really scary perspective Marc :) > > Just have the same feeling of Jupiter/Zeus on Earth in 100-400 : be the > greatest during 1500 years and shade just because of the death of a > single man ... [it's a point of view of Zeus not mine ... mine isn't > interessing here] Heh. I'd never really thought about that. > >> It's clear this is based from facts that happened in 1012 or 1010 > >> (don't truly remember) in Sind ... The master can be aware or not of > >> what he's doing ... After all when the whome continent won't believe > in > >> the Immortals, it will be simple for him to crush such belief in his > own > >> land. Then can the Extra-Mystaran Being come without threat of the > >> immortals. > >You are talking about Gareth? > >This is interesting... > > Yes ... i've just forgotten his name. I dislike using Gareth IMC as it > burries many facts : there's one god OR many immortals but not both IMO Gareth is not supposed to present an alternative reality. However, he is clearly using an agressive tactic to gain more followers. Maybe he is an Immortal, or maybe he is something more powerful. Herve Musseau presented alot of theories on what Gareth is. What if he is one of Geoffs outer beings? > >> What do you think about this ? Possible ? Crazy ? > >> IMO enough crazy for a chaotic being ... > >Perfectly possible. But it requires alot of knowledge for a single > >mortal... > > Gareth is perhaps not a "mortal" See above.. > >Also, whatabout followers on other Planets/planes? IMC, Followers on > other Planes dont count, but followers on other planets do. > > IMC an Immortal may act where they've followers ... say within 500 km > around ... An immortal will not die IMO if he has no follower but be > forgotten and unablbe to come back ... unless a special events. That is interesting.. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:54:04 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while While I'm researching the feasiblity of the 3D Mystara model, does anybody care to answer a few questions that I've accumulated over time? :) Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, Pflarr, or Mrikitat? In the Savage Coast, we have dog-people (lupins) and cat-people (rakasta). Given Mrikitat's interests, how long will it be before rat-people appear, in the Savage Coast and elsewhere? (If the Net Almanacs are still being created, I'll gladly work out details for this idea myself... :) ) There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the Law/Neutral/ Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the Immortal boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :) What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? There are a couple of alternate "official" Mystaras - the Expert Module Mystara, the oD&D/Gazetteer Mystara (with no "crystal spheres" and an infinite number of Outer Planes), and the AD&D Mystara (integrated with Spelljammer and Planescape). Has anybody thought of any interesting ways to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the "alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia? Given the fact that the rules for a high-level mortal ascending to divinity given in the back of the High-Level Campaigns rulebook were blatantly stolen from the Immortal ascension rules, are people here still debating the differences between Immortals, Powers, and gods? How about Overgods (ie, Krynn's "Father Chaos" and Toril(?)'s "Ao"), and Old Ones? In the Real World, the phase of the moon and when it rises and sets are inextricably linked - the full moon rises at sunset, and the new moon rises at sunrise. In Mystara, the rules are different, but there are some rules, otherwise the charts we've been given wouldn't be so regular. We can be fairly sure that Matera keeps one face towards Mystara, because the Immortal city of Pandius is there; has anybody figured out an explanation for what causes half the moon to be dark, half light? What other neat stuff has been talked about on the list lately? :) - -- Daniel Boese *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 14:12:53 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the > "alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia? I'm a big fan of Alternate realities, since IMC, The outer planes are exactly as written in WoTI, and Void-travel is done by CoM rules. > debating the differences between Immortals, Powers, and gods? How about > Overgods (ie, Krynn's "Father Chaos" and Toril(?)'s "Ao"), and Old Ones? I'm an ardent D&D player, and firmly believe that beings like Ao, and Mystra, and whatever are no match in any way for The Immortals. And by extension, Draedens ;) > Immortal city of Pandius is there; has anybody figured out an explanation > for what causes half the moon to be dark, half light? Same reason as for earth's moon, which always shows the same face towards the earth. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:17:57 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Daniel Boese wrote: > > Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, > Pflarr, or Mrikitat? Sharon and I had a discussion on Pflarr's role with the Traldar and Hutaakans while talking about the Taymorans. I don't think we came to anything solid. I let it lay while I went to do some more reading (which I never got around to). > There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the Law/Neutral/ > Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the Immortal > boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does > anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :) On the Sphere of Thought, I've about decided that all the spheres are componants of the universe except it. What that means, I haven't decided. I feel Energy is quite strongly attached to chaos so maybe I'm not understanding the question. > What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? I know Bruce is around somewhere lurking. BTW, does anyone have Ann Dupuis's email address? I'd like to ask her something. > There are a couple of alternate "official" Mystaras - the Expert Module > Mystara, the oD&D/Gazetteer Mystara (with no "crystal spheres" and an > infinite number of Outer Planes), and the AD&D Mystara (integrated with > Spelljammer and Planescape). Has anybody thought of any interesting ways > to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the > "alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia? *gasp* *looks around for the canon dogs that will be attacking Daniel for suggesting there are alternate Mystara's in existance* I like the idea that Mystara is part of the Spelljamming and Planescape universes. > Given the fact that the rules for a high-level mortal ascending to > divinity given in the back of the High-Level Campaigns rulebook were > blatantly stolen from the Immortal ascension rules, are people here still > debating the differences between Immortals, Powers, and gods? How about > Overgods (ie, Krynn's "Father Chaos" and Toril(?)'s "Ao"), and Old Ones? I think the High-Level rulebook rules were stolen from AD&D 1st Edition Deities & Demigods really :) But yes, I think you could say the debate continues. There not been anything to convince me that there is a difference between them but I'm told I'm mistaken. And I even see the Old Ones similar to Overgods. Actually, I think they are related more to the Dark Powers of Ravenloft and the Lady of Pain in Sigil. > What other neat stuff has been talked about on the list lately? :) I'll pass on this one :) BTW, good to 'see' the person whose work I read and enjoyed soon after joining this list. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 19:30:20 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] In a message dated 3/22/99 6:09:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, chasnans@hotmail.com writes: << Depend : If Mystara daoes come from Latin word : Mystara , ae, f : Mystara => 1st declination => many mystarae Not mystari as i is plural of 2nd declination (ex dominus, i ,m : master) Mystaras : Accusativ plural of Mystara , ae, f Mystarases : Plural of 5th declination (ex dies, diei, f : day) Sorry for such short latin lesson ;^) but it may annoy you. Friendly >> Awwww, Quit being such a Mystarass. [in jest] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #143 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 144 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:04:41 +1100 (EST) From: Shawn Stanley Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Hello Daniel Welcome back > What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? Ann hasn't been around in ages. For Bruce try looking at the Mystara Message Board, he pops in here occassionally but not too often. > What other neat stuff has been talked about on the list lately? :) To see the stuff which the list has come up with you can visit my site at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 for the comprehensive guide. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 11:33:19 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while From: Daniel Boese << While I'm researching the feasiblity of the 3D Mystara model, does anybody care to answer a few questions that I've accumulated over time? :)>> sure << Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, Pflarr, or Mrikitat?>> I guess so. For this question and most others of yours, I suggest you go see Shawn's site, which is the vault of Mystaran knowledge... http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ << In the Savage Coast, we have dog-people (lupins) and cat-people (rakasta). Given Mrikitat's interests, how long will it be before rat-people appear, in the Savage Coast and elsewhere? (If the Net Almanacs are still being created, I'll gladly work out details for this idea myself... :) )>> You know what Daniel? The almanac still exists, and I'm the editor. And Shawn is in charge of the SC. We do have events in the almanac (1016) for the wererats, the hutaakans etc, of course. Maybe we can use your help on certain areas where we're kinda late... contact me through private mail. << There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the Law/Neutral/ Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the Immortal boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :)>> Why don't you propose your theory? Start the debate! BTW I really like the concept that Sharon (I think) used in her post about Shadows, that life is made of a mix of every sphere and that removing some results in death, undeath, or shadows, concept which if I understood correctly comes from an article in Dragon about Limbo that Bruce wrote. I think we really can work out a coherent sphere / life / multiverse system based on that. << What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately?>> Ann hasn't shown up on the list for a veryyyy long time (like you). Bruce is around though he rarely posts to the MML (he reads through the digests though I think), but he's more active on the MMB. << There are a couple of alternate "official" Mystaras - the Expert Module Mystara, the oD&D/Gazetteer Mystara (with no "crystal spheres" and an infinite number of Outer Planes), and the AD&D Mystara (integrated with Spelljammer and Planescape). Has anybody thought of any interesting ways to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the "alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia?>> Some people have actually worked on this. Read their articles on Shawn's site, then by all means give your opinion and reopen the debate! I'm sure they'd be happy to hear neww ideas on the subject and to update their works. << Given the fact that the rules for a high-level mortal ascending to divinity given in the back of the High-Level Campaigns rulebook were blatantly stolen from the Immortal ascension rules, are people here still debating the differences between Immortals, Powers, and gods? How about Overgods (ie, Krynn's "Father Chaos" and Toril(?)'s "Ao"), and Old Ones?>> Likewise, it's been discussed, some people have scripted things about it, feel free to add your own. << In the Real World, the phase of the moon and when it rises and sets are inextricably linked - the full moon rises at sunset, and the new moon rises at sunrise. In Mystara, the rules are different, but there are some rules, otherwise the charts we've been given wouldn't be so regular. We can be fairly sure that Matera keeps one face towards Mystara, because the Immortal city of Pandius is there; has anybody figured out an explanation for what causes half the moon to be dark, half light?>> ahah, another moon expert ;) I'm sure between you, Andrew and Sharon, and any other interested person, you can come up with a cool system for the two moon's cycles and more... << What other neat stuff has been talked about on the list lately? :)>> oh well lotsa things. just pick up the threads.... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:18:02 CET From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Mystara FAQ version 7.0 by Hervé Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/mystfaq.txt Table of contents: Introduction to Mystara. (no updates) Geography and History of Mystara. (no updates) Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. (no updates) Miscellaneous. (no updates) Introduction to Mystara. Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Geography and History of Mystara. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is an epic campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is "wrong, wrong, wrong!" In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard of the Known World, and of the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : "Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :)" So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Immortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? Powers? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Is Rad gone after Wrath? A: No, he's been absorbed into the Radiance, and some of his life force was used to lessen the drain of the artifact on Mystara's magic (thus there is only a Day of Dread each year, and not a week as in Wrath). Rad is not dead though, but he has been put into a slumbering state to reflect on his deeds (and hopefully change). This is covered in detail in the module Mark of Amber. Q: So is Rad back after Mark of Amber? A: The outcome of the module may vary from campaign to campaign, as the actions of the PCs decide his fate. The module's three outcomes are: 1. He returns as a mortal with no chance of being sponsored back to Immortality and no access to the Radiance (failure); 2. He returns as a mortal but can become an Immortal again sometime (normal success and most likely outcome); 3. He returns as a full Immortal (complete success). Later products avoid the issue, and the general consensus is that he should return but be left in the background, keeping low profile for some time, either rebuilding his following (if an Immortal) or attempting to reach Immortality again (if mortal). Few favor him becoming a mere mortal as most love him as an NPC. Q: Does the Radiance draw from Energy or Entropy after Wrath? A: In Wrath, the Radiance is altered to draw from Entropy instead of Energy. Yet in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, the rules for the Radiance are exactly the same as in Gaz3, stating that it drains from Energy. This is a mistake in K:KoA; the authors overlooked that event in Wrath and forgot to update the info from Gaz3. Thus the new rules for the Radiance are undefined, as are the effects of Entropy-draining. Various suggestion have been made on the MML, though. Q: Where is Teldon? Is he dead? A: This is a short excerpt from Dragon Magazine #207 about Teldon's fate: "One of the attractions of the Magicians' Guild, its location in Karameikos' largest city, was its downfall. Such a collection of powerful (and often egotistical or secretive) mages in one location created great potential for conflict. The final straw was the creation of a mechanical beholder by one of the more advanced apprentices, powered by an Immortal's artifact. The resulting creation was turned loose in downtown Specularum, leveling a good section of the South End. The creation was defeated by the head of the Magicians' Guild, Teldon, but at great cost. Both mage and monster disappeared in a pure white ball of fire, and while they are assumed to have both been destroyed, they may instead have been teleported to some far-off location. The fact remained that the Magicians' Guild proved itself too dangerous to remain in Specularum, and lost one of its most valuable supporters." Q: And Bargle, where is he? A: After the fall of the Black Eagle Barony, Bargle is an itinerant villain that pops up here and there. He can easily be used as a recurring villain who the PCs bump into way too often (to their taste). He has been spotted in various place, including Esterhold and Serraine (always helping the evil guys, of course), but can have business just anywhere you wish. Well, good ole Bargle. Q: Is Kol a Shadow Elf or a Kobold? A: Earlier sources always presented Kol as a kobold who, using the rules from Gaz10, could cast spells. In Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, he is said to be one of the deformed shadowelf babies raised by the humanoids, thus explaining both his high intelligence and spellcasting abilities under the AD&D rules. It is both an interestesting plot, and a disappointement to many, as it removes again the humanoids any glint of chance that they can achieve something by themselves. Many people ignore that sentence in G:KoM (or ignore the box altogether, prefering good old Gaz3), and some love the potential of that plot. As always, use whatever version suits your campaign and your taste best. Miscellaneous. Q: You mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsrinc.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:07:42 -0500 (EST) From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Attachment Converted: "D:\EUDORA\attach\Happy99.exe" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:06:43 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Herve Musseau wrote: > Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? > A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 > http://www.tsrinc.com/periodicals/dragon/backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt > he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the > title for absolution. That link no longer works now that WotC/TSR have changed their site around. The new link is........ http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt Oh and just as a side note....i downloaded all the stuff from all the back issues and i noticed that there is none of the Voyages of the Princess Ark.....What gives with that??? - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #144 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 145 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list Re: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 2) [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 3) Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:01:43 -0800 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list - --=====================_1163282==_.REL Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just a warning to all, the Happy99 virus came down to my computer via the MML. Specifically it arrived in this message: > > X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to > owner-mystara-l@lists.MPGN.COM using -f > Received: from mail.mpgn.com (mail.mpgn.com [206.66.87.250]) > by phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA29860 > for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:07:51 > -0500 > Received: from home.gis.net (home.gis.net [208.218.130.20]) > by mail.mpgn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06661 > for ; Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:07:52 -0500 (EST) > Received: from usa.net (ppp31-122.gis.net [216.41.31.122]) by home.gis.net > (8.8.8/8.8.8+djf) with ESMTP id HAA04834 for ; Wed, 24 > Mar 1999 07:07:42 -0500 (EST) > Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 07:07:42 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: <199903241207.HAA04834@home.gis.net> > From: Jerry Hovenanian > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 > X-Spanska: Yes > Sender: owner-mystara-l@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM > Reply-To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > > > MAIL\Attach\Happy99.exe>6fcf1.jpg MAIL\Attach\Happy99.exe> Happy99.exe > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. As far a I know, all this virus does (after playing a nice firework graphic) is spawn itself by sending copies of itself to everyone contacted from an infected computer. I don't know how to clean up an infected computer, but I'm sure a little websurfing with yield some results. Just a public warning, Richard - --=====================_1163282==_.REL Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="6fcf1.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504547"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-ID: <4.1.19990324065159.009b3f10@mail.0> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="6fcf1.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/2wBDAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/wAARCAAgACADASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx BhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYkNOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElK U1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOEhYaHiImKkpOUlZaXmJmaoqOkpaanqKmqsrO0tba3 uLm6wsPExcbHyMnK0tPU1dbX2Nna4uPk5ebn6Onq8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oADAMBAAIRAxEAPwD9jfiX 8MPBP/BKT9o34c2XxT8O3v7QP/BMLxrpnxYuvBvgrxj4Vb4uaj+wTrvjjx38G4vGnimW01zw/wCJ dQ8QfBi58YX/AIH0nR7gamviSyn8deIY4LHXvijeXdx+0J+62gfs3fseeK9C0XxT4W+An7NXiXwz 4l0nTdf8O+ItA+Fvwu1jQtf0LWLOHUdI1rRdX07QrnT9V0nVdPube+03UrG4ns76znhurWaWCVHY +IWgaF4r/aJ+G3hbxTouk+JfDPiX9mr9qfQPEXh3X9Ns9Y0LX9C1jxz+yrp2r6LrWkajDc6fquk6 rp9zcWOpabfW89nfWc81rdQywSujfzZaT+2P+0F/wR88bfHzwZ4V/ZR+O3xq/YPj0L9oT4i/CTw9 puvy+Pvhh8AfiP4Z/aa/aC+A3w8+E+mftj6VpfiT4a+GdP8AjP4i+GPw/wDGnxF+D3xIng+J37Pz ftA6JYarpnjz4x/D34uyfGr8/wCaXAlVQcnU4LrOUlG7nV4Rk5RUpJaznwq51IKTSb4dlOKf/CLJ f2T/AF2qNL6VmXzrqlTwf0mMup0qNSsoRw+X/SJpRoVp0aU6iUMNhfHuOGwledKEpU4+MtDDVpQX /ETqM34hfvb+1H+zd+zL4U/Zl/aK8U6d8BPgT4a1Dw18Cfi5r9j4isvhb8P9HvNAvNH+H/iHUbXW rTV4NCtp9KudKntkvoNShuIJbGWBLqOaJ4g6/wA6PwU+NPxA/bu/aP8AgD/wT0/aI+LP7Svi3/gn LrfiX4s3v7N3xz8Q/An4yeEdS/4KCt8CFu/FfhH4D/Gz9p24ubzSfEuo+FfDPw8+LXjXTvEF3P4X +JXinwT8HjN8cJbv9q288KfFaP8AAT9qb/guT/wUE/aT8HfELw9+0Z8W/gPqV1BP8PvjDqn7Dfhj w/deBPgTZ6N8OtLi8QX3w+1fXPB/ie2/aS+IkHinTPDeueO/F+ian+0HrFronjG+8Oa/4Rm8F6Po ngTxFD/aVdfFXQvjrrP/AAbefG7wt8PNJ+EXhn4x+Ktb+Kvh34UaBdWd7oXww0L4h/8ABIP9qvxd pHw80W907QvC2n3ek+CtP1e38N6bdWPhnw7Z3FnpkMtroWkQOmn2/NRxtHxCxmMwlGrOPCOV1aMM XScKtGrxXVq0o4ii05whzcKOEk1UpSnHiCpGdJyjlNKpDNPOw+Y5R9F55hgKFbD5h9KmhSw9PHUX TdXDfRsw2Z4KGKw7UqlN4bG+OmMwddSjVoSr4bwdTq0ZTfitTq0/Dn9P/iFr+heFP2ifht4p8U61 pPhrwz4a/Zq/an1/xF4i1/UrPR9C0DQtH8c/sq6jq+ta1q+ozW2n6VpOlafbXF9qWpX1xBZ2NnBN dXU0UETuv8Bn/BYX9svwb8YtG+MOv+Evj78Ifg5oXgmTx74t+Ct/8U/Bvxm+Fnjj9tvSPiZ8eP25 viP8HfEvwo/Z8+Ffw2+IHw18SWPwS1+L4zfAXSfjj8RNG8BS3nxC8W6p48/ap+Kfhjxr8dH+GHg/ 9xf2n/2w/wBmn9uv9oP4Q6z+1b8Z9E/ZB/4JeaXafGPTPhj4y+KHjtfg1rf/AAUN8Q/Dfxt8Fbr4 i+GLOPWdf8P67pXwR0XxbF8O9Vt3g0SXWhd+FNQWTVfDfxWkW0+AX636B/wWN/4I5eFNC0Xwt4W/ 4KAfsU+GvDPhrSdN0Dw74d0D4v8Aw70fQtA0LR7OHTtI0XRdI06/ttP0rSdK0+2t7HTdNsbeCzsb OCG1tYYoIkRfYweLhxjiMPLE5Tk+ZcC4LM8JmdOhnGV0MTPi7H5bDF08K4Yvlo5nheD6c8XOticF hcbh8HxlXw+CnmeHxmSYHCRzH3sDnGP+iBl+Y0MpzrH4b6TPEmU1sszWlleZV6OX+AuSZhS5a+Bz Cjh6ywma+NuMw9SUJ0MVTxGH8HaFarFRfifWn/xD3+D3wT+wj+0H4H/YN/az+M/7cn/BKDxCmifH X4O3/wAOvhv8e/ib4X8I+Cv2hPhh8dfA1j4/0v8AZ++JLeDbnxJ4e+L3wF8Pa78YbbSPDHxQfxr4 Q+G3hb4oeFLn4XeVrvi/wNqvh/4TeKv64/gJZXmm/Bv/AINS9O1G0utP1DT/AAT4Osr+wvbeW1vL K8tf+CJ/7SMF1aXdrOkc9tdW08bw3FvMiSwyo8ciK6kD7f1//gsb/wAEcvFeha14W8U/8FAP2KfE vhnxLpOpaB4i8O6/8X/h3rGha/oWsWc2navoutaRqN/c6fquk6rp9zcWOpabfW89nfWc81rdQywS ujfz0j9qr9iD9kr9uT9iN/gT/wAFAvg5+0D/AME+/ht+0b8VfjF4T+EXgX4j+H/jD8Yf2X/FnxS/ Zp/aA+CfifwxoulW3ihvHHiL4ESXHxkk+KM+p6PY+Nde0m28H+ILO88OzfEfWbrxX8cPErZVl3Av G3HXGuAwLyvhTxGz2jn2cZHluMzWXDPh/mNLDRy7Dx4byHHY7H4fIeDYZXQy7KnhsudOOTYXKsuq Yv6zgoV8ZgOBTofSqyzDYaUsPhvpO5Pg3Sp1ZxoYan9I/BUIcz9tVjGlTj480IxnO8+Wn4wRc+Xk 8TUo+IX/2Q== - --=====================_1163282==_.REL-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 10:30:27 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list I got this happy99 virus from someone else a few weeks ago. I didn't even know it was a virus until you posted this. I found this web page http://www.e-marketing2000.com/happy99_virus_information.html It says how to get rid of it and how to tell if you are infected. - --- -- --Criptonite << Just a warning to all, the Happy99 virus came down to my computer via the MML. Specifically it arrived in this message: >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:11:50 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Umm.. Ok who decided that it would be fun to send a BINARY FILE TO THE WHOLE LIST?!?!?!?! Get a grip people! Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:44:35 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >Okay, hasten back to 1980. Oi! >My nextdoor neighbor had this nifty purple-bordered box with a red dragon >on the cover, and dice like I'd never seen before. I barely remember >rolling up a wizard character who actually made it to third level before >getting squashed to jelly by an iron golem. What did we know? This was >the same character that killed five Chromatic dragons by levitating them >into a wall of giant spikes. Never mind that there's only one of the >things, and forget about things like magic resistance, this was fun, and >Tiamat be damned! We didn't know any better...we were nine, for crying >out loud. My first RPG character dates back about that far, too! She was a 4th level AD&D paladin which my sister's babysitter's boyfriend -- being older (12), I insisted she was ONLY my little sister's babysitter, not mine ;-D -- gave me to play. He'd dropped by to talk to her on his way home from a game-session, and the sitter warned him my parents only allowed her to invite friends into the house, if they'd help her keep us girls occupied. After pawing through the PHB's "paladin" description -- IIRC, I adored the fact that my PC could call a warhorse; being female and 12, horses were THE thing for me just then ;-) -- and getting totally boggled by the neat list of equipment for sale, I proceeded to get my shiny new paladin killed in the first five minutes of play ... a speed record I've never broken (not even in a Paranoia game). Seems my sister's PC just HAD to take a close look at a big, grumpy fire giant on the trail up ahead; running to her rescue as she was being beaten to a pulp, I got surrounded by the giant's hellhounds and eaten, well-barbecued. My one consolation was that my sister's PC died two rounds before mine did. Aah, youth..... :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:02:16 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, SteelAngel wrote: >On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: >> Immortal city of Pandius is there; has anybody figured out an explanation >> for what causes half the moon to be dark, half light? > >Same reason as for earth's moon, which always shows the same face towards >the earth. I'm afraid that this can't be the case. You see, Earth's Moon (Luna) has one light half, and one dark half, and the light half is the half that's currently facing the sun. So, when Luna is between Earth and the Sun, the light half, facing the sun, is facing away from Earth, we get a "new moon", and Luna rises and sets at the same time as the sun. When Earth is between Luna and the Sun, the light half of Luna is facing both the sun and Earth, we get a "full moon", and Luna rises when the sun sets. Between these two extremes, Luna rises later or earlier than the Sun depending on what phase it's in. Which is all fine and dandy. Unfortunately, TSR has published the rise-and-set times of Matera, and these times make it impossible for Matera to obey the simple relationship Luna's phases and rise-and-set times do. (You can find the tables at Shawn's site, http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ ; I've started browsing, and congratulate everybody who's contributed on their enthusiasm - - it's going to take me a while to get through everything. :) ) The light half of Matera rarely points towards its sun, implying that something else either lightens half of it or darkens half of it. Since Matera always keeps the same face pointing to Matera, we can't just say that the same half of the moon is always light and the other half always dark. One possibile answer is to claim that the field which makes Patera (Mystara's second, invisible moon, in a polar orbit) invisible somehow bends the sun's light so that it shines on Mystara from different directions, but this is pretty complicated, and may not be feasible without claiming "It just is!", which is what we're trying to avoid in the first place. Another possibility, and the one I currently favour, is to make Matera hollow (like Mystara), with a sun-like thingy in the middle. Unlike the Hollow World's sun, though, this thingy would only light up half of the inside of Matera at a time, and this light would somehow be able to shine "through" Matera's crust to light up its surface. (This also gives a nifty explanation for why full moons affect lycanthropes...) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:44:57 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) As good ol' Jimmy wants to tear my writings about Alphatia and especially Bellissaria in parts, I do it for myself and send the article about the discovery of Bellissaria to the MML. So all of you will know what's the matter of discussion. So read the excellent article of my good friend, Captain Ebenezum from the Alphatian Imperial Navy about the first steps to and on the continent of Bellissaria. ================================================ Expedition to the Great Southland Written by Captain Ebenezum Prologue When the Alphatians came to this world we landed on the big island now known as "Alphatia". As the Alphatians were only the sad remainder of a once mighty people the main problem was to create a new empire in which we could dwell. From the beginning it was clear that this task would last centuries. The emperor and the Grand Council quickly decided that the Island we had reached was a good place to begin with this task. The generals had to do their work now. The surviving admirals of the Alphatian Imperial Navy could not stand that. They now had to find a way to reestablish their former might. Of course, we had no magical ships in those early years. The knowledge about the construction of such ships was still there, but our new world had different natural laws; some readjustments were inevitable. The dream of the admirals about an air fleet was years, even decades away. Fortunately, even in our grandiose old empire we had great oceans, and bold sailors to ply them. Now in our new world those men and women were quickly promoted to captains and admirals, connected with the task to create a new ocean fleet. Some resources were used to build this fleet as naval support is useful in conquering an island. So the fleet was built. On the other hand, once built a fleet can accomplish all kinds of missions. The first century after the landing saw the famous expeditions of Cpt. Trikelios in AY 37, 39 and 40 and of Cpt. Ekto in AY 38 and 42 to the Isle of Dawn where they discovered the reclusive and civilized people of Thothia. The first explorations did not lead to the foundations of colonies. Instead our leaders decided to establish ties of friendship and commerce with the Thothians. From AY 62 merchantmen started to maintain trade routes to the Isle of Dawn. The colonies of Ekto and Trikelios, named after the first captains who had visited the island, were not established before the 5th century when the decline of the poor Thothians became noticeable. Nowadays we cannot understand why the first explorations occured so sluggish. A look to the map shows that Bellissaria was only a few hundred miles off Alphatia. This is true, but we overlook too easily that the 1st century ships were much smaller and primitive than today, slow and leaking vessels which usually sank when caught by a storm on the high seas. When considering these facts the feats of the early explorers cannot be respected too high. At the end of the 1st century the quality of the ships were much improved as especially the merchantmen had done much work on the design. Additionally we must not forget that the Alphatian Imperial Navy is a warfleet. After the first explorations to the Isle of Dawn the Navy was too occupied with the fight against the wild tribes and the survey of Alphatia to spend ships and crews for more exploration missions. In AY 101 a merchantman cast adrift by a storm reported about a new big land in the southeast. He had sailed the coast for some days but had not landed. The idea was developed to send a new expedition to discover this new land and to create some new bases. So the "Expedition to the Great Southland" began. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:45:06 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] James, you are still making your old mistakes: You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. You refuse me the right to have my own opinion. I have one - but not yours. You are still insulting me - but by now I'm only amused about you. And you haven't understood me - again. Obviously you're not prepared to accept stuff written by me. I don't accept your silly challenge. As I know you well I know that you will never accept my stuff regardless of my arguments. So ignore my work, but don't be too surprised when I will ignore yours. Jamuga Khan "The Mighty Khan is very amused." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:49:30 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 2) The Members of the Expedition As it could be expected, the leaders of the expedition were experienced and skilled men as the voyage to a new land is a difficult and dangerous task. All of them had to boast many years of service for the empire and the had fought in the many battles the empire had led against the wild Yanifeys. For instance, during the conquest of the Yanifeyan town of Rardish in AY 92 Colonel Horken lead a division of marines which landed at the shore. Captain Meriander commanded the transporter HIMS Gargoyle during this operation. Among his crew were Cadet Alinquin and Ensign Lagrius, and Commander Notrion commanded a small courier ship. Without the feats of these men and some other the Rardish Naval Base probably would not have existed in AY 102. Rear Admiral Meriander Leader of the expedition, flag-ship HIMS Bellissaria When reading his biography it seems that the admiral had participated in every naval battle in the second half of the 1st century. Besides he commanded the HIMS Iron Golem which surrounded Alphatia first in AY 88. He not only charted the hitherto unknown north coast of Alphatia, but he even brought back home his ship and most of his crew despite of severe attacks by the jarls of Queodhar. IN AY 92 he commanded the HIMS Gargoyle, which was the first ship to land it's marines ashore Rardish. Admiral Meriander was an unusual man in another meaning as he was a cleric of Protius in a time where we Alphatians did not care very much about Immortals. As his beloved sea he was dangerous and unpredictable and, at the same time, a cool and disciplined naval officer, a shining example for us all. Major-General Horken Leader of the landing team Horken was a skilled war-mage and a even more capable strategist and tactitian. He is loud, rough and sometimes unrestrained, but he has the unvaluable ability to inspire the fighting instinct in the heart of his soldiers. The general always tried to be with the first unit when landing ashore, and usually he succeded to reach the goals of the campaign. Despite being a marine who has needed the assistance of the Navy during his complete career he considered the officers and sailors of the Navy as weaklings. Among his greatest military successes were the conquest of Rardish in AY 92 and the famous punishment campaign against Ystmarhavn in AY 90, where the newly-promoted Colonel burned down the greatest settlement of the Queodharian jarls. Captain Notrion Great Sailing Ship HIMS Bellissaria Notrion was a capable naval officer who used his magical abilities to strengthen his ship and his crew. As he had heard opinions of some marines against the Navy at least once too often he despised those fighters deeply. The naval discipline forced him to cooperate but this did not help very much too improve his opinion about the marines. After the conquest of Rardish he got the command over a pirate hunter and chased down many of the Yanifeyan buccaneers. His greatest success were when he was the flag captain of Admiral Alanthus. After the death of the admiral during the naval battle of AY 100 he took over command and led the fleet to a glorious victory. Captain Lagrius Great Sailing Ship HIMS Aaslin Another good officer from the Alphatian Imperial Navy Lagrius received his baptism of fire in AY 92 during the conquest of Rardish. At this time he was but a young and inexperienced cleric of Protius as his commander, Captain Meriander, had introduced him into the secrets. In AY 93 he was promoted to lieutenant and commanded a small river boat which was sent to explore the lower course of the Llyn River. By doing this he discovered the unknown Lake Llyn but the Yanifeyan pirates from the lake forced him to retreat. His sister Lianna married Horken in AY 99. Captain Alinquin Small Sailing Ship HIMS Alatia Alinquin was another sea-mage, but his career was much less eventful than those of the other members. Nevertheless he was a good naval officer, and when Captain Ulanan of the Alatia were hurted severely through an accident Alinquin was transferred and was made new commander of the ship as Admiral Meriander still knew him from the time he was among his crew. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:54:38 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 3) The Storm Admiral Meriander set sail on Alphamir, 10, AY 102, three days after the Day of Landing, from the military harbour at Eagret. After 12 days the flottilla was hit by a severe storm. The Alatia was scouting ahead around the Khopesh Spur and was drift south. When the other two ships met the storm one day later the admiral decided to hold the eastern course. The first real catastrophe occured on Alphamir, 24, when Admiral Meriander was washed off the deck of his flag-ship. The problem now was that both General Horken as Captain Notrion now demanded the leadership. Captain Lagrius, a brother-in-law of the general, tried to negotiate between the both when he visited the Bellissaria after the storm. For the first Captain Notrion got the command because it is common rule in the navy that after the death of an admiral the flag-captain takes over the command until the admiral can be replaced. The Landing on Bellissaria The flottilla continued their voyage without the admiral and the Alatia. Finally, on Sulamir, 4, land was sighted, and after the usual quarrel between the captain and the general Captain Notrion was the first Alphatian who set his feet on a part of the big Island nowadays known as Kingdom of Notrion. They had come ashore where a river pours down from the great inland lake. Captain Lagrius volunteered to explore the river with a boat but Notrion and Horken agreed to continue the voyage even for similar reasons. Captain Notrion only wanted to find a good place for a naval base, and General Horken wanted to find a good strategic place for a fort. So the river was named "Lagrius River" to appease the disappointed captain. The ships now followed the northern cost to a great bay which both captains estimated as appropiated for the founding of a naval base. As they had experienced now the greatness of the Island the three leaders agreed about the name of this island and named it Bellissaria after the flag-ship as it was the wish of the missing admiral. The bay was named the Bay of Aaslin after the Aaslin. The flottilla remained for three weeks to build a fort. During this time the quarrel between Notrion and Horken escalated. Notrion opted for a return to Alphatia to fetch more troops, personnel and supply and to report the discovery to the admiralty. Horken wanted to continue the voyage around Bellissaria. Lagrius negotiated a compromise. Major Harriman, commander of the marines aboard the Aaslin, manned with his troops the new fort and General Horken transferred his marines to the Aaslin. The Bellissaria returned to Rardish which was only 650 miles off Aaslin, according to Notrion's computations. The Aaslin continued the voyage around the continent. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:14:51 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Timothy R. Haney wrote: >Daniel Boese wrote: >> >> Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, >> Pflarr, or Mrikitat? > >Sharon and I had a discussion on Pflarr's role with the Traldar and >Hutaakans while talking about the Taymorans. I don't think we came to >anything solid. I let it lay while I went to do some more reading >(which I never got around to). I'm glad I've re-subscribed already - this is a question I hadn't even thought of, let alone thought about, and Pflarr happens to be my second-favorite Immortal. If you're still interested in discussing it, feel free to e-mail me privately and/or post publicly with what you and Sharon came up with... >I think the High-Level rulebook rules were stolen from AD&D 1st Edition >Deities & Demigods really :) I'm afraid that I don't agree - influenced, perhaps, but I believe they were more influenced by the Immortals box. The prospective divinity has to locate a friendly diety, give them a gift, and is then assigned some heroic task. The example tasks given are: * Found a dynasty * Create a new magical item or spell that others seek out to imitiate * Find and destroy an artiface from an opposing alignment * Find and defeat the avatar of a rival deity * Build a lasting monument to the deity Sound familiar? :) >And I even see the Old Ones similar to Overgods. Actually, I think they >are related more to the Dark Powers of Ravenloft and the Lady of Pain in >Sigil. This is an interesting idea; would you care to elaborate on it? (I only know the very basics about the Powers and the Lady, though...) >BTW, good to 'see' the person whose work I read and enjoyed soon after >joining this list. You did? I'm glad to hear it. :) Which items did you like best? P.S.: Considering the number of e-mail addresses I've gone through, I would greatly appreciate it if anybody who has copies of anything I've created change the e-mail address from , and to , which I plan on keeping as a "reference" address for at least the next few years, as I have no idea how long the other addresses will still forward mail to me. - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:24:45 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Herve Musseau wrote: >From: Daniel Boese ><< There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the >Law/Neutral/ >Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the >Immortal >boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does >anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :)>> > >Why don't you propose your theory? Start the debate! Alright, here's a controversial idea: Before the two new Old Ones ascended, there were only three Old Ones, and only /three/ spheres, which didn't quite correspond to any of the current five. After each new Old One 'happened', the Multiverse went through a major overhaul as 3 spheres turned into 4, then 5. However, since Old Ones exist "outside of time" (explicitly stated in the Gold Box), the current 5 spheres have existed since the beginning of the Multiverse. (Gotta love trying to make time-travel make sense... :) ) Perhaps the 3- and 4-sphere universes still exist, as "parallel Multiverses". Hm... perhaps the 3-sphere Mystara is the one given in the original rule-books (Law/Chaos/Neutrality), the 4-sphere one is AD&D (elements), and the 5-sphere one is the jumbled combination of the two we work with now? I'll leave off there, and let anybody else who wants to propose modifications, counterarguments or whatnot add their own thoughts. :) ><> > >ahah, another moon expert ;) I'm sure between you, Andrew and Sharon, >and any other interested person, you can come up with a cool system for >the two moon's cycles and more... Andrew, Sharon, feel free to contact me publicly or privately to start discussing ideas... :) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:26:40 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > James, you are still making your old mistakes: > > You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly > everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. > Hmmmn. . .odd that it doesn't show up in your writtings then. > You refuse me the right to have my own opinion. > I have one - but not yours. > Nope, sorry: you have it reversed. I didn't call what you wrote a lie, you called what I wrote a lie. > You are still insulting me - but by now I'm only amused about you. > Another falsehood, because when you slandered my work by calling it lies, you were insulting me. > And you haven't understood me - again. > Oh, but I think I have. Either that or many people misunderstood you - again, because I'm far from alone in taking offense at your attitude in this. > Obviously you're not prepared to accept stuff written by me. > Neither do you, nor are you asked to, accept stuff written by me. But once again you fail to understand the purpose of this forum: I may never accept anything written by you, and you may never accept anything written by me. Be that as it may: some people, perhaps many people, *will* accept what you write and use it, and some people may accept what I write and use that. For you to step forth and call anything written by anyone else "an obvious lie" simply because *you* do not accept it is out of line. > I don't accept your silly challenge. As I know you well I know > that you will never accept my stuff regardless of my arguments. > Well, as I said before regarding the arguments that you would muster. . . > So > ignore my work, but don't be too surprised when I will ignore yours. > I would be more than happy to have you ignore my work if you so choose. That is not what you did in this instance. Had you simply ignored it, that would be one thing. To portray yourself now as simply the innocent victim is risible. And yes, I have typically ignored your work, which is my right to do, and the right of anyone to do if they so choose. In ignoring your work I have not called it "obvious lies" in this forum, nor explained why it is such: I simply ignored it, accepting that some would use it, but we are not all required to use everything that is posted, Jamuga, nor are we required to accept your word as law on anything when you step forth to decree something "an obvious lie." But, yes, I shall do what you ask. I will not put your materiel to the test, even though you have slandered mine. I'll go back to giving it the attention it deserves, and I will as I said be pleased when you return to ignoring mine, and not making pronouncements on them that cannot withstand rational dialogue. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:38:56 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while > Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, >Pflarr, or Mrikitat? I placed some greater wererats inside Matera, in one of my interminable "Hollow Moon" posts (the one about lycanthropy, natch). I borrowed the idea of the Rodemus wererat-clan from that long-ago capsule dungeon demo in the old Basic "red book". I've also planned to present certain details about Pflarr's personal history, in a future HM post ... details he's a wee bit embarassed about, and has been keeping secret from his Hutaakans for millenia. In fact, that's part of why Pflarr didn't send the nocturnal Hutaakans to the dimly-lit Hollow Moon, instead of the HW: so they'd never find out the truth about his background. (Nothing nasty or evil, just VERY humiliating to a fastidious and ultra-civilized snob like Pflarr.) ;-) > There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the Law/Neutral/ >Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the Immortal >boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does >anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :) I thought Energy was supposed to be Chaotically-oriented, also: just not as "evil" in its Chaos as Entropy. I would assume the Thought-Sphere draws upon the intellect and cognition of ALL the sentient beings in the multiverse, as its source/essence/role, so partakes of all three alignments for that reason. I haven't got the IM boxed set. Could you tell us more about what it says, exactly...? It sounds like a good story we could do a lot with. > What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? Bruce shows up on the MMB a lot more than he does here. AFAIK, he figures it's a better place to recruit new fans for Mystara, since so many other gamers who've never heard of the MML, but who visit the TSR website, can see the posts and become interested. > There are a couple of alternate "official" Mystaras - the Expert Module >Mystara, the oD&D/Gazetteer Mystara (with no "crystal spheres" and an >infinite number of Outer Planes), and the AD&D Mystara (integrated with >Spelljammer and Planescape). Has anybody thought of any interesting ways >to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the >"alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia? Personally, I may run with the notion that Mystara's entire galaxy is inside a gargantuan crystal sphere that floats in SJ's phlogiston. The physics inside it works by CoM rules -- slightly modified, IMC -- as a unique property of that particular crystal sphere, much as Krynnspace is unusual in being colder than the norm. I haven't tried to reconcile Mystara with Planescape: I despise the PS setting for a number of reasons ... mainly, because gives us such a cheesy/demeaning view of the afterlife to swallow. Who wants to think their PC's "eternal reward" consists of losing his or her memory, never being reunited with -- or even expecting to be; the petitioners lose ALL their memories, capice...? -- deceased loved ones, and doing the household chores for his or her deity (and slang-spewing touristas from Sigil) till the end of time? > In the Real World, the phase of the moon and when it rises and sets are >inextricably linked - the full moon rises at sunset, and the new moon >rises at sunrise. In Mystara, the rules are different, but there are some >rules, otherwise the charts we've been given wouldn't be so regular. Easy solution: Throw out those charts. Declare them the work of those nasty, evil typo demons. Problem solved. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #145 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 146 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Jamuga: comming, or going? Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Question for Jamuga [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a difference. Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... Re: [MYSTARA] - Tried that. RE: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *wit h* a differe... [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] We Done Yet? I Think So. Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:35:54 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) > > As good ol' Jimmy wants to tear my writings about Alphatia and > especially Bellissaria in parts, I do it for myself and send the article > about the discovery of Bellissaria to the MML. So all of you will > know what's the matter of discussion. > I'd ask that you prove from some official canon reference that Bellissaria wasn't inhabited by sentient creatures before the comming of the Alphatians, but I've decided to do you the courtesy that you refuse to do for me, and not call your writtings lies. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 12:59:10 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jamuga: comming, or going? > I don't accept your silly challenge. As I know you well I know > that you will never accept my stuff regardless of my arguments. > Hmmmn. . .above it sounds like you are declining the challenge, in which case I will as I said do you the courtesy of not critiquing your writings, but below it sounds as if you are accepting the challenge. Please tell me which it is, and I will greatfully oblige you. > > As good ol' Jimmy wants to tear my writings about Alphatia and > especially Bellissaria in parts, I do it for myself and send the article > about the discovery of Bellissaria to the MML. So all of you will > know what's the matter of discussion. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 13:18:41 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The First Question for Jamuga > > As good ol' Jimmy wants to tear my writings about Alphatia and > especially Bellissaria in parts, I do it for myself and send the article > about the discovery of Bellissaria to the MML. So all of you will > know what's the matter of discussion. > Even though he said he did not want to accept the challenge, and yes I will let him decline if he so choses, the above seems to imply that he is accepting the challenge, so under that assumption I'll post the first question for him. If he chooses he can simply decline and as I said I'll let the matter lay. So here's the first question: You, Jamuga, called my writtings regarding the "Melian Dialogue" a lie based on your assumption that Bellissaria was uninhabited before the Alphatians arrived. I was going to be unfairly harsh and ask you to prove that no sentient creatures lived on Bellissaria prior to the comming of the Alphatians, but I'll be somewhat less stringient: Simply show, using the materiel you are so familiar with ("You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly everything ever written about Mystara and D&D.") that no humans lived on Bellissaria before the Alphatians came to it. If you can prove that with some official reference, then I will admit that you were right to call what I wrote "an obvious lie," and I was wrong. It won't matter if Demi-humans, or Humanoids, or other sentient creatures may (or may not) have lived on Bellissaria, We'll be humanocentric: just prove that no humans lived there, and I will bow to your superiority, and admit my writings on the subject were what you called them: "obvious" lies. Note: ambiguous references, where it seems like it *may* be possible or likely that few or no humans lived there, do not qualify, since these ambiguous references also leave open the possibility that some may have. On the other hand, if you find a quote that shows that no one at all lived there, even if it doesn't specifically refer to humans, that will qualify as a proof of my falsehood (for example, a statement that says Bellissaria was uninhabited would qualify; it doesn't have to specifically say "uninhabited by humans.") The ironic thing is that if you find a statement that says, for example, "some humanoids lived in the hills and forests, but there were no humans living on Bellissaria," that would qualify as a proof that I lied, even though humanoids are IMO sentient. Same for Demi-Humans. So you have a lot of leaway. But again, to be clear: you said in another post that you weren't accepting my challenge, so if that is the case then as I said I will respect your wishes, even though you show no respect for me. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 07:23:13 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 >> Jaelynix: Blue female, Sind (Dragon Magazine #170) > >While its not out of the realm of possibility, I doubt that I would have >named a dragon after one TSR created and placed it in the same area. If >someone can check that DRAGON, I'm fairly sure you won't find Jaelynix >:) Some other changes which could be made are >Brulefer: Black male, in Ghyr (X12) to Brulefer: Blue unknown, in Denagoth (X11) >Vitriol: Black male, in Ghyr, X12 to Vitriol: Black male, in Denagoth (X11) You could also add Kindling: Gold male, in Wyrmsteeth Range (MMB - in Bruce Heard's Future of the HK storyline) Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:34:20 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly > everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. Erp. That's a bold statement. Even I wouldn't support that. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:37:09 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > Another possibility, and the one I currently favour, is to make Matera > hollow (like Mystara), with a sun-like thingy in the middle. Unlike the I don't like the "hollow moon" ideas, as well written as they may be. Mystara's Hollowness is IMO a nearly unique feature. To make something else hollow, especially so close only cheapens the coolness of the hollow world. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:00:21 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Warning, Virus Posted to list Well don't i look silly...i have fixed the problem on my puter and am sorry if anyone is harmed but it. It was not an intentional post. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 17:04:15 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a difference. I think a explanation is in order regarding recient exchanges between me and our overlord, "the Great Khan." It may seem to some, perhaps many, that I'm arguing over an insignificant matter. After all, I ended up moving the "Dialogue" from Bellissaria to the Pearl Islands of my own accord anyhow, so why argue over the placement of the original version, in a notional "Melos" on Bellissaria? It is because what is being argued is an important basic premise. A significant difference between what is considered "acceptable" and what is not. On the one hand we are offered a viewpoint that sees anything created/posted first as what is vaid, and anything subsiquent that diverges from that is either a lie or a legend, but cannot be true. (In actuality this is not, however, Jamuga's opinion: things that I, for example, post on any given subject, even if posted before other versions of the same thing, I doubt seriously that he accepts as valid and priveliged as "true" in the same sense that he envisions his own materiel and the materiel of others who's views he agrees with. And I'm far from the only person who's ideas are a priori considered invalid by him.) It doesn't matter in this case if the person posting "contradictory" material is even familiar with the version that has gone before, and is thus in this perspective accepted as the "true and accurate" version: it is their fault for not being familiar with it, and the subsiquent version is none-the-less a "lie or legend," not a valid portrayal. (Here I have to admit that I wasn't familiar with Jamuga's story of the Alphatian discovery and colonization of Bellissaria until he mentioned it in connection with calling the "Mystaran Melian Dialogue" a lie. The only thing on his website that I had even partially read before this discussion was his stuff on the Alphatian Great Council, which I found, in my opinion, to be deficient. So I was ignorant of his story of the discovery of Bellissaria at the time.) This perspective of a single true Mystara is at odds with, and in conflict with, another viewpoint, one that was succinctly defined by our resident barrister, and which formed the basis for the "Canon vs 'non-canon'" thread that took place this past winter. In this viewpoint, there can be versions of Mystara, or an aspect of Mystara, that are mutually incompatable, even contradictory. There can by portrayals of Bellissaria for example, as uninhabited before the Alphatians got there, and portrayals of it as having been lightly, or even heavily inhabited when they conquered it. A version of a dialogue between the Alphatian conquerers and some notional group/people/nation living on Bellissaria, or it could take place between the Alphatians and the Nuari at the Pearl Islands. But in this viewpoint ALL VERSIONS ARE POTENTIALLY VALID. None are "obvious lies." The obvious rejoinder: "But Porphy, you're a hypocrite! You frequently argue against portrayals of Mystara that you don't like, and you're constantly promoting your own viewpoint! You're no different from Jamuga, and it's ironic that you're taking such offense at his calling your stuff lies." On the one hand, touche'. You've got a point. I'm constantly struggling with my own darker tendancies, and I don't always succeed in winning that battle. On the other hand, there is a difference though: One can debate the merits of ideas and viewpoints, promote your own perspective, even rigorously (though at times I do it *to* rigorously), challenge the perceptions of other viewpoints, and even consider them to be based on dubious assumptions/premises, and encourage others to adopt some version of one's own viewpoint. With luck, this type of debate/dialogue will help improve all viewpoints, people will see things in new ways that will add to their enjoyment of the game, get new ideas, arguments will be resolved (that's a utopian goal, however: haven't seen many resolved, but often things are learned by all sides in the discussion irregardless). Everyone's own versions will be enhanced and enriched in some way, even if no one succeeds in "converting" anyone to their own viewpoint. But this kind of exchange, this type of debate, even if sometimes heated, is *NOT* the same as declaring all opposing viewpoints untrue, "obvious lies." And that is a major, not an insignificant, difference. If all other versions are "lies," then we're closed off to new ideas. If Jamuga, or anyone else, wants to consider my a jerk and my ideas as not worthy of being adopted because they are deficient or because he and they don't like them, then so be it. That doesn't bother me. But that's not the same as calling them lies, which IMO is beyond the pale. If anyone disagrees, then correct me. And if one of the conditions of being part of the MML is that we must accept as valid and true what gets presented first, and by certain people (Jamuga and his clique), and everything else is deemed invalid untrue lies or legends, then let me know. If that's the case, then I'm in the wrong forum, and I'll unsubscribe immediately. Hopefully soon we'll be able to move beyond this. I'm ready to get back to discussing Mystara itself. But if anyone has any questions regarding this, or wants to call either of us out of line and recieve a fuller explanation, then I'm at your service. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:24:00 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, SteelAngel wrote: >On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > >> Another possibility, and the one I currently favour, is to make Matera >> hollow (like Mystara), with a sun-like thingy in the middle. > >I don't like the "hollow moon" ideas, as well written as they may be. >Mystara's Hollowness is IMO a nearly unique feature. To make something >else hollow, especially so close only cheapens the coolness of the hollow >world. Since the canon details describing Matera leave it possible that Matera is or is not hollow, I will not disagree with you. However, what I /will/ do is ask you to tell me your own version of Matera, hopefully including your explanation for its full/new vs rise/set periods. (Yes, I know the easiest solution is to throw out those charts they gave us... but I always find it much more interesting to come up with /reasons/ for the apparantly-contradictory details, because those reasons usually have other side-effects which make for a more complicated, more interesting setting... :) ) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:41:16 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >> Has anybody done any work involving the phanatons, Hutaakans, wererats, >>Pflarr, or Mrikitat? > >I placed some greater wererats inside Matera, in one of my interminable >"Hollow Moon" posts (the one about lycanthropy, natch). I borrowed the >idea of the Rodemus wererat-clan from that long-ago capsule dungeon demo in >the old Basic "red book". I've not yet read anything about your version of the Hollow Moon... but I already mentioned a rotating sun-like thingy in the middle of Matera as one solution to the rise/set - full/new problem. :) >I've also planned to present certain details about Pflarr's personal >history, in a future HM post ... details he's a wee bit embarassed about, >and has been keeping secret from his Hutaakans for millenia. In fact, >that's part of why Pflarr didn't send the nocturnal Hutaakans to the >dimly-lit Hollow Moon, instead of the HW: so they'd never find out the >truth about his background. (Nothing nasty or evil, just VERY humiliating >to a fastidious and ultra-civilized snob like Pflarr.) ;-) I'd love to hear more about this, either privately or publicly - I don't know why I'm so interested in Pflarr and his creations, but I am. :) >I haven't got the IM boxed set. Could you tell us more about what it says, >exactly...? It sounds like a good story we could do a lot with. Well, we're told that the basic "alignments" and elements of the Spheres are: Matter - Law - Earth Energy - Chaos - Fire Time - Neutrality - Water Thought - none - Air Entropy - none/evil - none I'm simply trying to come up with a simple, coherent, self-consistent explanation for the apparent anomolies in the observed patterns here. :) >> In the Real World, the phase of the moon and when it rises and sets are >>inextricably linked - the full moon rises at sunset, and the new moon >>rises at sunrise. In Mystara, the rules are different, but there are some >>rules, otherwise the charts we've been given wouldn't be so regular. > >Easy solution: Throw out those charts. Declare them the work of those >nasty, evil typo demons. Problem solved. :-) Ah, but if we eliminate /any/ canon, what's to stop us from getting rid of anything that suits us? Why, we might come up with a setting where Glantri and Alphatia never go to war, where Dorfin IV wars against the Great Khan, or other such nonsenses! As I've said elsewhere, I have fun trying to come up with explanations that explain why the apparant contradictions /aren't/ contradictions, after all - think of the No-Prizes from Marvel. :) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:25:48 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... I may only be in the minority here, but if you have a continuing problem with The Khan (or visa versa) please send all future posts to his and only his attention. I will continue to use stuff from both or neither of you two as the case may be, but I'd ask that you take the really nasty posting "out of public view." Thanks, BoBo II "I really hate these domestic disturbance calls." - -anonymous officer on COPS *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:03:54 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tried that. > > I may only be in the minority here, but if you have a continuing problem with > The Khan (or visa versa) please send all future posts to his and only his > attention. > Tried that a couple months ago in a series of private exchanges. The only thing that was tacitly resolved, or so I thought, was that I wouldn't comment critically on his posts if he would do the same regarding mine. This latest exchange over the "Melian Dialogue" showed how well (or poorly) that worked. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 09:20:43 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *wit h* a differe... > -----Original Message----- > From: BoBoII@aol.com [SMTP:BoBoII@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 8:26 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction > *with* a differe... > > I may only be in the minority here, but if you have a continuing problem > with > The Khan (or visa versa) please send all future posts to his and only his > attention. I will continue to use stuff from both or neither of you two > as > the case may be, but I'd ask that you take the really nasty posting "out > of > public view." > > Thanks, > > BoBo II > > > [MURPHY Jason] LOL....oh PLEASE dont make them take it off the list......this has to be one of the most amusing disagreements i have read in recent times. "IIIIIN THE RED CORNER we have the Khan, claiming intimate knowledge of all things, oops nearly all things Mystara" "And in the blue corner we have the challenger who by his own admission struggles with his darker tendancies on a constant basis." Well its all giving me a little giggle anyway :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:34:24 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] We Done Yet? I Think So. People, Sure it amused Jason, but regardless, the little flamefest dies here. Anyone continuing it earns my ire, and the ire of the man with the administrative password is not a good thing, as bootings tend to follow. No last words, no "I just had to add"'s, yadda yadda yadda. Leroy "Bootings, not booties" Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:00:52 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while >I don't like the "hollow moon" ideas, as well written as they may be. >Mystara's Hollowness is IMO a nearly unique feature. To make something >else hollow, especially so close only cheapens the coolness of the hollow >world. > >Ethan I'm sorry to hear that, Ethan! I never meant for the HM to supplant the original HW concept, or to be redundant ... just to expand upon it, by showing that the Immortals DIDN'T plumb forget that at least half the species on any given planet are nocturnal, and could only be preserved in their natural states in a museum-world where it's always twilit. My apologies, if you thought that I was trying to "upstage" the boxed set; if anything, my Hollow Moon is intended to be something of an afterthought on the Immortals' part, that they whipped up after the original HW was completed. Actually, I've got a fairly decent explanation in mind, for WHY there'd be a hollow moon orbiting a hollow world. (It's not just a coincidence, that Matera wound up in orbit around a similarly-built celestial body, you see....) If you'd like to hear my reasoning, e-mail me privately and I'll let you in on the secret. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 22:50:23 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > (Yes, I know the easiest solution is to throw out those charts they gave Umm.. That's kinda what I did :) Almanac be damned :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:18:13 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters First character? THE first character??? Crud, takes me back to '79 and the first time I saw the Keep on the Borderlands! My very first character was Cedric Shieldmaker, a dwarf. He lasted until we got to the caves and a bunch of kobolds suprised our group and wiped us out. The game lasted about an hour and a half. We all rolled up new characters and started over and I rolled up an elf that time, because they could fight and cast those really neat magic spells. Arminath Wynter, my longest running character was 'born' that day and our 'new' group of adventurers took on those blasted caves and got our butts handed back to us a ton of times! What a blast! Every time someone died, we would retreat back to the keep and 'run into' a wandering adventurer to replace the fallen character. LOL But my dependable elf was there for it from almost the beginning. Mostly retired now, i still break him out for 'special' occasions like the Tomb of Horrors (in progress). Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:23:44 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 In a message dated 3/24/99 3:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) >> I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons were the only metallic dragons on Mystara? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 23:55:18 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Jacob Skytte wrote: > TROOP MOVEMENTS & WAR MACHINE BATTLES AC 1010 > > Armies are in the format: Name (Troop Class; Personnel; Battle > Rating). Most army stats are only presented when the army is first > introduced and should be changed according to losses, reinforcements, > etc. Outcomes according to history have been given along with my > notes. War Machine rules are found in the D&D Companion set as well as > the Rules Cyclopedia. Siege Rules are found in the Master set as well > as the Rules Cyclopedia. The Sea Machine rules can be found in M1: > Into the Maelstrom as well as M2: Vengeance of Alphaks. > This is great work, and is already proving to be extremely useful to me in my campaign. It's currently late 1011 and one of my PCs has decided to "do something" about the Thothians. I've been dreading trying to figure out exactly who's out there fighting and where. Thanks! Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:01:26 -0500 From: Michael Ray Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/24/99 3:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: > > << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) > >> > > I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons were the > only metallic dragons on Mystara? It does say that. The Dracology section in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic also seems to support it, but not all other sources do. PWA III has a copper dragon as the guardian of the staff that Sitara Rohini (did I get that name right?) is sent by Gareth to recover. I think it's just a case of how individual writers interpreted the change to AD&D. The writers of the Monstrous Compendium wanted to keep the selection of dragons the same as in OD&D, but other writers (such as Ann Dupuis for PWA III) felt that the change to AD&D meant they had a chance to use a bunch of AD&D monsters (which has nothing inherently wrong with it, I might add; it's just a different point of view). Ultimately, I think it just comes down to the individual DM's decision as to what dragons exist in his/her version of Mystara, especially since the canon sources don't agree. Michael. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:01:07 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters > First character? THE first character??? Crud, takes me back to '79 and > the > first time I saw the Keep on the Borderlands! My very first character was > Cedric Shieldmaker, a dwarf. He lasted until we got to the caves and a > bunch > of kobolds suprised our group and wiped us out. The game lasted about an > hour > and a half. We all rolled up new characters and started over and I rolled > up > an elf that time, because they could fight and cast those really neat > magic > spells. Arminath Wynter, my longest running character was 'born' that day > and > our 'new' group of adventurers took on those blasted caves and got our > butts > handed back to us a ton of times! What a blast! Every time someone died, > we > would retreat back to the keep and 'run into' a wandering adventurer to > replace the fallen character. LOL > > But my dependable elf was there for it from almost the beginning. Mostly > retired now, i still break him out for 'special' occasions like the Tomb > of > Horrors (in progress). > > > > Jim > [MURPHY Jason] Heyhey....yup Keep on the Borderlands was my first adventure as well. Although my groups youthful munchkinism made the outcome a little different :) Our first serious campaign began about 2 years later with fresh characters. Mine was a Dwarf from Rockhome named Godrak of the Delver clan. It involved a mysterious empire (Called the Angaraks name borrowed from Eddings of course) gradually conquering little known kingdoms from the north. Often during a suddenly appearing Red Moon ( So named because of the CCR song Bad Moon Rising which was redone by The Reels at that time) huge Were creatures would appear and harrass our party. The reason for this we found later was an artifact dagger we had come accross on our first adventure. Clerics had told us it was an item of great evil and essentially didnt want anything to do with it except for giving us a protective case to carry it in with instructions Never to remove it until we had found some means to destroy it. The few times we did remove the dagger in a town a returned to the area later we found the town razed to the ground by some strange army that appeared out of nowhere. Oh damn i have gotten started now. I better stop or i'll end up reciting the entire 3 years of campaign :) Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #146 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, March 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 147 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] [MYSTARA] - hollow pursuits [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 4) [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 5) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:30:13 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly > > everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. > > Erp. > > That's a bold statement. Even I wouldn't support that. > > Ethan schee-itt, I have a set of plastic crates FULL of all the old D&D and 2edn AD&D Mystara stuff, and there is so much of it I still keep finding things I have never seen before (or if I have they have become forgotten). Mystara is in the eyes of the Beholder. :) Mystara fthagn! - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 16:36:23 +1100 (EST) From: "Jonathan Nolan, Barrister & Solicitor, FTIA" Subject: [MYSTARA] - hollow pursuits There is some psycho stuff on the web about hollow world physics - why in our own universe planets seem to have craters (or actual holes) at the poles, this hollow earth, Deroes etc. - the physics and so on of it all is already outlandish, certainly would then allow or indeed mandate that all or most planets and planetoids in Mystara's continuum would have to be hollow (with or without crazy Immortal non sequiturs like inner suns etc.etc.) :) - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Nolan FTIA - International Law practice call 618 89310176 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mystara/RPG Netbooks: www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~ksimpson/netbooks.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Gion Ap Thane's Book of Skulls: www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/8840 - -------------------------------------------------------------------- "people talk of the triumph of the machine. The truth is, the machine will never triumph." -D.H. Lawrence - -------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:43:19 PST From: "Jennifer Favia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions >I'm sorry to hear that, Ethan! I never meant for the HM to supplant the >original HW concept, or to be redundant ... just to expand upon it, by >showing that the Immortals DIDN'T plumb forget that at least half the >species on any given planet are nocturnal, and could only be preserved in >their natural states in a museum-world where it's always twilit. Well, if I may interject my two (or three) cents' worth, I think that the HM is an excellent idea, well thought out with even better execution, at least for the portion I've read. :) It's true that there should be a place for nocturnal species, especially if Ka & Co. are interested in preserving ALL endangered species. As far as the HW and "redundancy" go, I have to respectfully disagree. I don't think at all that the HM takes anything away from the HW, at least no more than Boldavia takes away from Traladara, or Renardy from Averoigne. Apples and Oranges? I don't think so; sometimes similar cultures (or worlds, in this case) serve to *highlight* each other's differences. Just a few thoughts, Jenn Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 00:55:22 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > > << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) >> > > I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons were the > only metallic dragons on Mystara? Well, I think its still undecided if there are or aren't. But I created Valamaeraen as a single entity. All that is known of him is that he was either created from or trapped in a bronze statuette of a dragon. He was released without knowledge of a race of bronze dragons. I left it up to whoever wanted to use him to decide if he was part of a larger population or a construct. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:02:55 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > > > You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly > > > everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. > > That's a bold statement. Even I wouldn't support that. This man is evidently the God. > schee-itt, I have a set of plastic crates FULL of all the old D&D and 2edn > AD&D Mystara stuff, and there is so much of it I still keep finding things ...not to mention that it contradicts itself every now and then more and less seriously. Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized in 1001 (!) iirc. And there are still restrictions on clericism. (Solmyr, BTW, I believe you want your WotI and MoA back, eh? (Sorry it's been a while)) Another thing I've wondered is that there are absolutely no mentions of Paladins or Avengers in the Gazes! - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 16:58:16 -0500 From: Glen Sprigg Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 >Ok who decided that it would be fun to send a BINARY FILE TO THE WHOLE >LIST?!?!?!?! > The person who sent that did so unknowingly; the happy99.exe file is a computer virus that attaches itself to any e-mails sent by the infected system. Anyone who received that file, DO NOT RUN IT!!!! DO NOT RUN THE HAPPY99.EXE FILE!!!! So don't blame the sender; blame the person who wrote the stupid thing. Glen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:04:48 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Hi mystarans, I'm very far from having read all about Mystara that's why i'm stunned by this : Markus wrote : >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized in 1001 They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? >(!) iirc. And there are still restrictions on clericism. Which one ? To lie 3 feets under earth ? How clerics (that have been target of violence for years) have reacted ? IMO they'll never accept this ... In my mind it sounds like : "Well we hate us, but today we need you so help us before i'll hurt you again !" >Another thing I've wondered is that there are absolutely no mentions of Paladins or Avengers in the Gazes! True absolutly true ... the only time i saw avenger was in CM1 when the poor king Erical wanna get married ... Friendly An other Marcus wwith a "c" ;) Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund //www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 04:10:10 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Hi mystarans, I'm very far from having read all about Mystara that's why i'm stunned by this : Markus wrote : >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized in 1001 They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? >(!) iirc. And there are still restrictions on clericism. Which one ? To lie 3 feets under earth ? How clerics (that have been target of violence for years) have reacted ? IMO they'll never accept this ... In my mind it sounds like : "Well we hate us, but today we need you so help us before i'll hurt you again !" >Another thing I've wondered is that there are absolutely no mentions of Paladins or Avengers in the Gazes! True absolutly true ... the only time i saw avenger was in CM1 when the poor king Erical wanna get married ... Friendly An other Marcus wwith a "c" ;) Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara //www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund //www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:15:02 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for > Alright, here's a controversial idea: Before the two new Old Ones > ascended, there were only three Old Ones, and only /three/ spheres, which > didn't quite correspond to any of the current five. After each new Old One > 'happened', the Multiverse went through a major overhaul as 3 spheres > turned into 4, then 5. > However, since Old Ones exist "outside of time" (explicitly stated in the > Gold Box), the current 5 spheres have existed since the beginning of the > Multiverse. (Gotta love trying to make time-travel make sense... :) ) > Perhaps the 3- and 4-sphere universes still exist, as "parallel > Multiverses". Hm... perhaps the 3-sphere Mystara is the one given in the > original rule-books (Law/Chaos/Neutrality), the 4-sphere one is AD&D > (elements), and the 5-sphere one is the jumbled combination of the two we > work with now? So what about the outer planes? As I recall it, the planes have varying degrees of influence from the different spheres; making time pass slower or faster, having matter never decay, or whatever. So are some of the outer planes leftovers from when there were fewer Old Ones, or are they implications that the 5 Old Ones have varying degrees of interests in different planes or what? You may have worked out some alignment problems, but I'm afraid that there's more to it than that... :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:21:43 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions >>original HW concept, or to be redundant ... just to expand upon it, >>by showing that the Immortals DIDN'T plumb forget that at least half >>the species on any given planet are nocturnal, and could only be >>preserved in their natural states in a museum-world where it's >>always twilit. IMC I've transferred the nocturnal species to areas with large floating islands blocking out the sun continually. And some of them could have been transferred to subterranean caverns or under dense foliage, where there would be perpetual twilight. But of course there'd be no moon... But then there wouldn't be a moon in the HM, would there?!? :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:14:59 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 On Wed, 24 Mar 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/24/99 3:27:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, > shawn@leme.anu.edu.au writes: > > << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) > >> > I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons were the > only metallic dragons on Mystara? According to the Dragon Magazine Article "From Hatchling to Immortal Guardian," Bruce Heard mentiones that some dragons are being reincarnated into new different breeds of dragons, so according to this, any type of dragon could exist, though golds are the only "common" OTOH, if you wanna get a bit unofficial, Mystaros Epic Timeline introduces All sorts of Metallic Dragons in a rather nifty way... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:29:27 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > > Markus wrote : > >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and > on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily > allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized > in 1001 > > They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? As I recall the whole story there was this nasty plague during the war with Alphatia and the Master, and seeing the population die as well as getting ill themselves I guess the wizards decided that they had better get some clerical aid. Cure disease sure is a nifty spell. > >(!) iirc. And there are still restrictions on clericism. > > Which one ? To lie 3 feets under earth ? How clerics (that have been > target of violence for years) have reacted ? IMO they'll never accept > this ... > In my mind it sounds like : "Well we hate us, but today we need you so > help us before i'll hurt you again !" The restrictions on clericism is that clerics are not allowed to preach their faiths. I quote Joshuan's Almanac (AC 1013): "In recent years, clerics have been welcomed for the healing benefits they confer - the plague nearly devastated Glantri - but smart clerics will be demure of manner and quiet of proselytizing. While it is no longer a crime to be a cleric in the Principalities, it IS a crime to preach religious beliefs." So I guess that most lawful clerics would care for the Glantrian population and want to save lives from diseases and the like, and they'd just have to accept that they should lay low and find believers by helping out and accepting those that want to convert in gratitude. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:38:31 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > It's currently late 1011 and one of my PCs has decided to "do something" about > the Thothians. I've been dreading trying to figure out exactly who's out there > fighting and where. Well, lots of luck to your poor PC. As you can see the Thothians have a great thing going for them. And though they can't use their special force outside of Thothia itself, they've got that pesky undead force, that they can continually reinforce with casualties from both their own ranks as well as the enemy's. In fact if your have to retreat from Thothians make sure you bring your dead or chop them up real bad, if you've got the time for it. And if they retreat make sure to get rid of the dead or the Thothians will have them fighting you in your next military encounter...They're REAL badasses these Thothians...after all they kicked Thyatis' butt several times in a row (according to the Almanacs)... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:35:05 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jacob Skytte wrote: > > > > Markus wrote : > > >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and > > on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily > > allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized > > in 1001 > > > > They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? > > As I recall the whole story there was this nasty plague during the > war with Alphatia and the Master, and seeing the population die as > well as getting ill themselves I guess the wizards decided that they > had better get some clerical aid. Cure disease sure is a nifty spell. IMC, this will only be a temporary thing. Once the plague is dealt with, the clerics are expelled. I think Glantri is far more interesting without clerics, so thats they way ill keep it. Ofcourse, this limited period will strengthen some of the resistance groups.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:59:21 +0000 From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Håvard wrote: > On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jacob Skytte wrote: > > > Markus wrote : > > > >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and > > > on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily > > > allow' clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized > > > in 1001 > > > > > > They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? > > > > As I recall the whole story there was this nasty plague during the > > war with Alphatia and the Master, and seeing the population die as > > well as getting ill themselves I guess the wizards decided that they > > had better get some clerical aid. Cure disease sure is a nifty spell. > > IMC, this will only be a temporary thing. Once the plague is dealt with, > the clerics are expelled. I think Glantri is far more interesting without > clerics, so thats they way ill keep it. Ofcourse, this limited period will > strengthen some of the resistance groups.. I reckon this is what will happen IMC too, the decision to bring clerics in split the council, and the magocracy really doesn't want these nice clerics to gain a following...and lets face it when your family and friends are dying, along comes some nice chap with his nice robes and cures them, well - it's easy to see how the common people would love these guys... And the clerical orders *raced* to be the first into Glantri, healing the plague, being associated with curing and such. Brand recognition and all that :) The Revolution (which IMC seeks to not-quite-overthrow the magocracy and allow mundaners the same rights as arcaners) warned about the clerics in one of my players stories: http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/stories/baj/mosdoc/mosdoc15.html And then while I'm plugging this, the after effects of when the clerics come marching in: http://seija.ucd.ie/dnd/stories/baj/clerics/ It's going to be much more difficult to keep people hating clerics though, especially now that a lot of Glantrians have seen first hand that not all clerics are evil, or idiots, or both.... gordon Gordon McCormick, System Management UCD Computing Services,Belfield, Dublin 4 ph. +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:15:37 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > In the Savage Coast, we have dog-people (lupins) and cat-people > (rakasta). Given Mrikitat's interests, how long will it be before > rat-people appear, in the Savage Coast and elsewhere? (If the Net Almanacs > are still being created, I'll gladly work out details for this idea > myself... :) ) I like the idea of a rat people. Arent Warhammer's Skaven sort of like that? Anyway I am reminded of a Norwegian Science Fiction novel I read. It was set in a postapocalyptic future where Earth was populated by genetically manipulated animals. (and some other weird things, but thats not so important). The dominant races were the dogs, Felin(the cats) and Gna (rat people). Gna was a dangerous people who lived underground. They differed from the other races in many ways. Firstly, they had strange technological artifacts(magic?); Flame swords for instance. Second, they used slaves. Other rat men and other races. Another curious note about them was that they absolutely hated rats (the normal type). Anyway, I though this might provide some ideas for a rat type people. The novel is called Ker Shus (by Tor Aage Bringsverd), but i dunno if it is translated to any other languages. If it is it is recommended. Maybe the Ratmen of Mystara populate a realm below the Savage Coast? I think that sounds good.... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 10:04:41 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.0 On Wed, 24 Mar 1999, Glen Sprigg wrote: > system. Anyone who received that file, DO NOT RUN IT!!!! DO NOT RUN THE > HAPPY99.EXE FILE!!!! I'm sorry for exploding. I've dealt with binaries sent to lists before.. Wouldn't affect me anyway. I'm a Linux User :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:56:40 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 >> << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) >> >> >> >> I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons >>were the >> only metallic dragons on Mystara? > >It does say that. The Dracology section in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic also >seems to >support it, but not all other sources do. PWA III has a copper dragon as the >guardian of the staff that Sitara Rohini (did I get that name right?) is >sent by >Gareth to recover. Maybe on Mystara, other sorts of metallic dragons are what you get if a gold mates with one of the other ten oD&D dragon-types. A Mystaran "bronze" dragon, for example, might be a gold/sea hybrid, with its gold parent's good nature and its marine parent's affinity for the ocean. Other dragon types might be disinclined to "mixed marriages", and may refuse to raise hybrid young -- we don't want to have to make up TOO many crossbreeds, after all :-) -- but the Lawful and sentimental golds would be more accepting of such hatchlings. And there's a (nasty) incident in the DL novels which shows that other dragons -- even evil renegade reds -- find golds physically attractive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:06:19 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 4) The Return of the Bellissaria Captain Notrion's return to home was uneventful. After a voyage of 9 days he reached the Harbour of Rardish on Sudmir, 11. A report was send to Sundsvall and on Sudmir, 14, Notrion was promoted to admiral and governor of the Aaslin Naval Base. His first officer, Commander Hook, became the new captain of the Bellissaria. Troops and supply were stored aboard the Bellissaria. More troops, ships and personnel were promised but it was clear that none of it would be available in the next months. On Vertmir, 1, Admiral Notrion was back again in Bellissaria. The Aaslin had not returned, and he commanded Captain Hook to search the sister ship. The Aaslin Disaster The Aaslin continued to follow the Bellissarian coast and rounded the north point on Sudmir, 7. After an uneventful voyage along the coast the Aaslin met a thick fog around the Cape Meriander as Captain Lagrius called it some days later. This happened on Sudmir, 22. The Aaslin ran into open waters. This was part good, part bad. The Aaslin did not crush in the fog but they lost their orientation. Four days later the Aaslin met land again. The first time during their voyage they met humans, seafaring dark skinned people. The exact events could not be reconstructured later on, but it seems that General Horken had decided to conquer or sack the village of these Tanagoros. The counter-attack damaged the Aaslin severely, but Captain Lagrius reached an retreat in good order. Pursued by the much smaller and primitive but high-sea going Tanagoron vessels the Aaslin fled westward. Unfortunately Captain Lagrius set a too southern course. So he discovered the big Inner Sea of Horken, as we know it today. After 26 endless and bitter days the Aaslin saw land again. On Vertmir, 20, it hit land, literally! The severely damaged ship did not follow the order of the captain in the wrong moment and crushed into the coast of Horken. Captain Lagrius now had a falling-out with his brother-in-law, General Horken. He left the general and the marines with his sailors in an intact rescue boat and followed the coast. General Horken organized his surviving marines to construct a fort. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 18:08:43 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 5) The Discoveries of the Alatia The small sailing ship Alatia were divided from the rest of the flottilla only days after the departure. On Alphamir, 24, Captain Alinquin reached a great island, Aeria. He decided to survey the island and surrounded it in 12 days. On Sulamir, 14, he discovered Aegos and surrounded it in 13 days. On Sudmir, 1, the Ne'er-do-wells were discovered. The survey of both were accomplishe on Sudmir, 11. On Sudmir, 12, Alinquin discovered Gaity and named the islands the Alatia Archipelago. When the island was charted on Sudmir, 21, Captain Alinquin conferred with his navigator, and both men came to the conclusion that Admiral Meriander and his flottilla had to be in northeastern direction. So the captain set a course along the southern coast of Gaity and finally he reached the Bellissarian coast on Sudmir, 27. He followed the southern coast of Bellissaria and on Vertmir, 21, the Alatia shipped around Cape Spearpoint. Finally, on Islamir, 6, Captain Alinquin, to his big surprise, met General Horken in his new fort. After 4 days of shore leave the Alatia set sail again. Captain Alinquin charted the coast of the Inner Sea of Horken, met the Bellissaria and reached the Aaslin Naval Base on Andrumir, 14. The Rescue Mission of the Bellissaria Two days after Captain Hook left Aaslin with the Bellissaria she met a storm, short, but fierce. The storm drifted her to a cape of the Esterhold Peninsula, which she named Cape Hook. One week she charted the coast of Esterhold where now Port Marlin can be found, but on Vertmir, 13, she was in clear waters with a southern course to the Bellissarian coast. On Vertmir, 18, the Bellissaria was back again in the coastal waters of the big island. The Cape Meriander was transshipped on Vertmir, 28, and the Cairnport Bay, the northern-most point of the Inner Sea of Horken, on Islamir, 11. Here Captain Hook ordered some days of shore leave. Six days later the crew spotted the sails of the Alatia and now Captain Hook learned about the fate of the Aaslin. The both captains agreed to return to Aaslin as the autumn were coming closer and the surviving marines of the Aaslin had settled down in their fort. The Bellissaria reached Aaslin on Andrumir, 20. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #147 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, March 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 148 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while [MYSTARA] - Out of the shadows Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while RE: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a whi le [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Ratlings [MYSTARA] - Ratlings Found! Re: [MYSTARA] - Ratlings Found! Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:19:43 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master >>Given how badly Immortals' irresponsible actions trashed the landscape >in WotI, thus implying they're a bunch of ruthless cads, this might well >be the perfect time for such an "anti-Immortal" faith (bit like the >Athar from PS) to take root on Mystara.<< > >I thought that woti was an exeption : were not Immortals defended to act >directly on Mystara ? I thought they have to use their priests and >followers to achieve their goals. IMO WotI is a major transgresion to >the rule they set about intervention on Mystara... I'm perhaps wrong ? Oh, they didn't actually show up in person and smash things up ... although Alphaks DID jump the gun with a certain giant meteor (quote from Blackhill: "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!") and get chewed out by the rest of Pandius. It's the way the Immortals goaded their followers into the war, merely because of petty bickering among themselves -- at least, "petty" is how an Athar-like cult could characterize it -- that would offend Mystarans' sensibilities and cause embittered WotI-survivors to doubt their Immortals' worthiness. > I've always thought that the "Old Ones" were some gods playing with >mortals and immortals (kind of experiment for them) and stay hidden, >trying to amuse themselves by creting some "attraction" to their >"creation". Who knows what they are and who ? Who realy cares ? >Immortals ? Well it'd be perhaps why some of them on't remember some of >their past and are so crazy ... they may have found ! Call me an old softie, but I'd like to think that Old Ones actually DO have motives which -- though far too complex for mortals, or even Immortals, to grasp their scope -- are well-intentioned, i.e. that they're NOT just another bunch of heavy-handed thugs, butting heads with each other. Perhaps an Immortal who becomes an Old One FINALLY sheds the last of his/her self-centered conceits, and begins acting as a wise and responsible custodian of the cosmos, having at last outgrown the shallow competitiveness of his/her pervious states of being. Naturally this precludes all direct contact with Immortals, who aren't mature enough to comprehend the Old Ones' enlightened and Buddha-like perspective. Hey, a DM can dream, can't she...? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:34:23 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while >BTW I really like the concept that Sharon (I think) used in her post >about Shadows, that life is made of a mix of every sphere and that >removing some results in death, undeath, or shadows, Why, thank you! I hope the shadow-posts are still there, on the MMB; if they are, I'll copy it over for the MML to read too. :-) If not, I can give you the "short form": oD&D shadows are what you get, when the Energy-component of a person's soul is disjoined from the Thought-component (see below). They aren't undead -- at least, the shadows from the RC aren't -- but sentient "half-souls" that must absorb energy from their physical surroundings (light, Strength points, and/or warmth) in order to sustain their Thought-components, in the absence of their Energy-component's "power supply". >concept which if I >understood correctly comes from an article in Dragon about Limbo that >Bruce wrote. Yep, it's from one of the VPA articles (the one where Raman's spirit wanders through Limbo). Bruce evidently got the idea that sentient beings have two parts to them -- the physical body, which is related to Matter and Time; and the soul/spirit, which is related to Energy and Thought -- plus an Entropy-based tether that links the body and soul. If a person dies prematurely, their Entropy component is released into the universe, which is why Entropy is so gung-ho about death. Gordon Maclintock (sp?) apparently wrote an enquiring letter to Dragon Magazine, which gave Bruce the idea for this concept of how the body and soul relate to oD&D cosmology. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:47:15 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics >>Another thing I've wondered is that there are absolutely no mentions of >Paladins or Avengers in the Gazes! > >True absolutly true ... the only time i saw avenger was in CM1 when the >poor king Erical wanna get married ... Remarkably, this issue's just come up on the MMB, too! James and I were talking about that, a few days ago. I've got two "out-of-character" theories: 1) Most of TSR's writers for the Gazetteers hadn't played as much oD&D as AD&D, so they either didn't know or plumb forgot that high-level oD&D fighters could become paladins or avengers. The writers who DID favor the oD&D system -- Bruce, for one -- just happen to have been assigned to work on Gazes that don't have many human fighters in them (e.g. Glantri; the demihuman nations). 2) Until the RC was published, there just weren't enough DMs out there who had a full set of rules (Basic through Masters) for mortal PCs. Thus, many of the folks to whom TSR was marketing the Gazetteers, in the first place, wouldn't have had the paladin/avenger rules available, so wouldn't know what to do with such an NPC. In-character, I've accounted for the discrepancy by saying that the paladin/avenger rules don't apply IMC. There's no reason every oD&D rule has to apply in a Mystara campaign, any more than you have to have wild mages in every possible AD&D setting. As "holy warrior" archetypes go, RC paladins and avengers are much too "generic" for Mystara's wildly-diverse Immortals, anyhow ... at least, IMHO they are. :-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 12:07:36 -0600 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > In-character, I've accounted for the discrepancy by saying that the > paladin/avenger rules don't apply IMC. There's no reason every oD&D rule > has to apply in a Mystara campaign, any more than you have to have wild > mages in every possible AD&D setting. As "holy warrior" archetypes go, RC > paladins and avengers are much too "generic" for Mystara's wildly-diverse > Immortals, anyhow ... at least, IMHO they are. :-D One thing I think works for me is that paladins and rangers are like professions. As semi-professions, they aren't available until a fighter has reached name level (9th). At which time they switch to the new class experience table (I usually use AD&D now). I've changed my thoughts on paladins over the years and now consider them with ideas that don't mesh with gods very well. They serve the cause of good and order only. They usually align with a single Immortal. - -- Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net The Tome of Galwylin - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/ Galwylin's Bookshop - http://www.airnet.net/galwylin/bookshop/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:01:34 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Jacob Skytte wrote: >> Alright, here's a controversial idea: Before the two new Old Ones >> ascended, there were only three Old Ones, and only /three/ spheres, which >> didn't quite correspond to any of the current five. After each new Old One >> 'happened', the Multiverse went through a major overhaul as 3 spheres >> turned into 4, then 5. >> However, since Old Ones exist "outside of time" (explicitly stated in the >> Gold Box), the current 5 spheres have existed since the beginning of the >> Multiverse. (Gotta love trying to make time-travel make sense... :) ) >> Perhaps the 3- and 4-sphere universes still exist, as "parallel >> Multiverses". Hm... perhaps the 3-sphere Mystara is the one given in the >> original rule-books (Law/Chaos/Neutrality), the 4-sphere one is AD&D >> (elements), and the 5-sphere one is the jumbled combination of the two we >> work with now? > >So what about the outer planes? As I recall it, the planes have >varying degrees of influence from the different spheres; making time >pass slower or faster, having matter never decay, or whatever. So are >some of the outer planes leftovers from when there were fewer Old >Ones, or are they implications that the 5 Old Ones have varying >degrees of interests in different planes or what? >You may have worked out some alignment problems, but I'm afraid that >there's more to it than that... :) Actually, each set of Prime Material Plane, Inner Planes, and Outer Planes, forms a single Multiverse, from what I recall. Thus, with each "reboot" of the Multiverse, there's a whole new set of Outer Planes to play with. As for the different degree of each sphere influencing each plane... sure, maybe it's a degree of each Old One's interest, or maybe they're working together "out of time" to try and form a Multiverse with the greatest possible chance of creating the next Old One... Hm... that brings up a curious question - if my initial idea is vaguely correct, what happens to the Multiverse when the next Old One arises? We would have six "spheres"... perhaps the basic AD&D arrangement of earth/air/fire/water/positive/negative inner planes would work best as a template? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:10:03 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >On Tue, 23 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: >> In the Savage Coast, we have dog-people (lupins) and cat-people >> (rakasta). Given Mrikitat's interests, how long will it be before >> rat-people appear, in the Savage Coast and elsewhere? >I like the idea of a rat people. Arent Warhammer's Skaven sort of like >that? Anyway I am reminded of a Norwegian Science Fiction novel I read. It >was set in a postapocalyptic future where Earth was populated by >genetically manipulated animals. (and some other weird things, but thats >not so important). Actually, the idea of evolved rats (or other animals) inheriting the Earth isn't so uncommon in English Sci-Fi, either; I recall two novels without even thinking about it where the Rats take charge after the humans disappear. :) >Maybe the Ratmen of Mystara populate a realm below the Savage Coast? I >think that sounds good.... That's an interesting possibility, which I think I'm going to use. The Known/Old World has a hekuvalotta tunnels and caverns underneath it - for example, the Shadow Elf and the Broken Lands systems. I don't recall anything about the existance or non-existance of Savage Coast cave systems; if they exist, they haven't overtly affected much of the region's history or peoples. (Well, there's the manscorpions, but that's another matter...) The Ratlings (I have to come up with a name for them... "Mrikans" after their patron Immortal? "Not-Wererats" since everybody keeps getting the wrong impression? :) "Ratlings" is probably what other people call them, ala Hin/Halflings.) will probably love any such cavern system they find, and move right in... - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:27:25 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Out of the shadows Hey, folks! Someone voiced an interest in a post I'd previously made, on the MMB, about the (non-undead) oD&D shadow and how it might relate to Mystara's five Spheres. Here's the original MMB-post, for your viewing pleasure: Bringing Shadows Into The Light I've been giving some thought to the recent discussion about the Mystaran shadow -- the monster, not the thing you're standing in when Ixion's shining on the other side of the rock! ;-) -- and I came up with an idea for what might be going on with them. (This is assuming that shadows AREN'T undead, as in the AD&D rules, but weird living creatures as oD&D portrays them.) Please, tell me whether you think this makes sense, people: From Bruce's long-ago article on Limbo (the Mystaran Purgatory, kind of), we learned that Mystarans have five components which correspond to the five Spheres: Matter, Time, Thought, Energy, and Entropy. Matter makes up the physical body, while Time sets the actual duration of life and guides the body's maturation. Thought and Energy make up the soul, which is made sentient by the former and kept in existence by the latter. The Entropic component binds soul to body, wears away as the person ages, and is eroded entirely when natural death occurs. If someone dies prematurely, any "leftover" Entropy passes into the world, which is part of the reason Entropy is so gung-ho about death.* [* - Bruce told us all this; what follows is my own guesswork, based on his ideas.] When someone becomes undead, presumably it's the Entropic part that is doing the damage/inducing the change. If they become something corporeal, this component binds the soul into the carcass even after Time has dictated the body should die, and Matter has ceased to maintain it (i.e. it rots). If they become incorporeal, it links them up to the larger forces of Entropy, keeping the soul in the Physical Plane and granting it whatever powers its undead-type has. In non-sentient undead*, the Thought component of the soul might also be damaged; in energy-draining forms, the Energy component is entirely displaced, and its role is usurped by the Entropic one. [* - I'm thinking of creatures other than skeletons and zombies, here. Those don't have souls in them; they're just bones or meat under necromantic control.] But suppose shadows aren't a result of the Entropic component's alteration? What if, in a Mystaran (i.e. oD&D-style) shadow, the soul's Energy component is the one that's altered, in a way that causes it to absorb light -- hence, their appearance -- and drain vigor -- not levels, i.e. lifeforce, but Strength -- on contact with "normal" living beings? The physical body (Matter plus Time components) gets left behind, making the shadow incorporeal, but the soul never actually "dies", any more than a mage whose body is slain while Magic Jarred into another will be "dead". Think of it like this. Maybe, in the far-distant past*, a cabal of wizards and clergy tried to achieve earthly immortality -- not an ascension to Pandius; just an indefinite lifespan where they'd never grow old -- by disjoining the Time components of their own bodies from the Matter components. In theory, they thought this would spare them from Time's rigors and eventual death, because their Matter components -- i.e. their flesh -- wouldn't get any "instructions" from the Time-components about when to grow old or die. This wasn't a complete severence -- they feared that would leave them with no sense of time's passage at all -- but it DID block Time from giving any "input" to their bodies' Matter. [* - There were shadows in Blackmoor modules, IIRC, so they must have been around a looooong time.] Unfortunately, they'd failed to consider whether the disjunction-magics they used would affect their souls, also. When the cabal actually invoked their ritual of "earthly immortality", the two components of their physical bodies disjoined ... but so did the two components of their souls, Thought and Energy! Just as Time had been cut off from communication with Matter, so Energy was cut off from communication with Thought. Their sentient "selves" -- the Thought portions of their souls -- lost touch with their spiritual source of sustenance/vitality -- the Energy portions -- and immediately started to grow weaker, due to their contact with the Entropy component (normally, the Energy component's energies would have compensated for this drain/erosion). Desperate to escape being drained, each cabal-member's "self" -- technically only HALF a soul -- ripped free of its Entropy component, also severing the link to its physical body. What was left from all this -- the sentient portion of a soul -- is what Mystarans today call a "shadow". The Thought portion of the soul remains battered yet largely unchanged, such that the creature is self-aware and capable of cunning. As this is the strongest remaining portion of the erstwhile person, the shadow manifests itself in a semi-gaseous form (since Air is related to Thought). Its new "body" is mutable and can lie flat like a real shadow; it can slip through small spaces with ease. Because it's basically a disembodied soul -- or at least 50% of a soul -- a shadow is immune to normal weapons, like many undead which share this same makeup. The original, material body -- which wasn't really "killed", but got left behind when the half-soul broke its Entropic tether -- immediately falls into a coma and dies of thirst/starvation. So much for the Matter component of the newborn shadow. The Time component really DID get disjoined, then abandoned along with the flesh: for what it's worth, shadows are unaging and do not suffer natural deaths. They ARE alive, and not undead, because Entropy plays no part in their existence, beyond the Entropic component's having driven the half-soul from its body in the first place. It's the Energy component -- still loosely linked to the Thought portion, yet unable to pass on its energies to the soul's other half -- that's the problem. In its state of disjunction, it can't "feed" the Thought-portion, as in a normal (dead or embodied) soul; more, it can't even sustain ITSELF, without the Thought-component's help! (Tapping into the Energy Sphere is something only a SENTIENT soul can figure out how to do, and on its own, the Energy-component isn't very smart. :-D) That portion of the shadow's soul which had once provided it with vitality, instead becomes an energy "sink", sucking in whatever traces of mundane energy -- light, warmth, the Strength of living bodies -- its incorporeal form can come into contact with. Sucking in MAGICAL energy is another story; as with tapping the Energy Sphere, magic's awfully hard to handle for the (essentially mindless) Energy-component, so that shadows can't become mini-NoS's and absorb energy from spells or from the ambient magics of Mystara. Even natural sunlight is a wee bit too magical for them, as Mystara's two suns - -- inner and outer -- both tap their energies from the Plane of Fire. Light from torches or campfires (or PCs' lanterns ;-D) is much more to their "taste" ... and the physical vitality of corporeal beings -- the next best thing to the spiritual energies their sundered souls can no longer draw upon -- is the best thing of all, to slake their famished need for Energy. Thus, we have the major properties of shadows -- they're neither wholly incorporeal nor truly gaseous, but a bit of both; they drain Strength by touch; they're immune to mundane weapons; their bodies absorb light (hence, they look "shadowy"), yet they avoid Continual Light spells (magical light does them no good) and the sun (ditto); they're alive, yet share many similarities with the bodiless undead -- all laid out ... or at least, all the ones I could think of! ;-D * * * * Bruce later suggested that the victims of shadows become shadows, because a shadow has to disjoin their Energy-component in the process of feeding upon them. If this proves fatal, the victim's Entropic tether breaks, and they assume the same state as the shadow which killed them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 14:32:54 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > correct, what happens to the Multiverse when the next Old One arises? We > would have six "spheres"... perhaps the basic AD&D arrangement of > earth/air/fire/water/positive/negative inner planes would work best as a > template? hmm.. I dunno what would happen. Last thing I think we'd all want to do is reboot the multiverse again :) But if the Old ones live outside of time in the way you propose, then the end of WoTI has a few odd ramifications. And the origin of the NoS is a bit odd too. Let me take the NoS thing. The Old One who modified it did so to play with the sphere of energy, almost as an experiment. If the Old Ones exist at all points in time simultaneously, then why didn't they know that Their experiment would have been tainted by immotal Interference? Unless they wanted it that way.. And Why would the old one appear at the end of WoTI? That still seems to serve little purpose. but it seems odd in this "out of time" idea. Maybe it's just me. Personally, i like the idea someone proposed that the Old ones created the multiverse for a "school project" :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:13:55 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and > on what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily > They allow clericism ? Truly or just a joke ? Why ? [My philosophy is that questions are best answered thoroughly the first time, so] During the Wrath of the Immortals (world war between Glantri, Alphatia Thyatis, Desert Nomads and practically everyone else) plague raised its head in Heldannia, and eventualy ending up in Glantri. Everywhere else it was relatively simple matter to heal, but Glantri suffered severely. Therefore the council requested clerical aid from Darokin. In Kingdom of Magic, which is not by any means word of god, it is stated that clericism is legal, though only healing magic is allowed and preaching is punishable by death. In Mark of Amber is stated that there are licenses for divination and healing magics... BTW; are clerical objects allowed in Glanti? I gave one of my PC:s a Ring of Spell Storing with some invaluable divination and healing spells, but I have been pondering whether it is illegal or not. > Which one ? To lie 3 feets under earth ? How clerics (that have been > target of violence for years) have reacted ? IMO they'll never accept > this ... Mundaners probably love them, arcaners hate them. Boldavians and Brannart are very eager to kick them out -- Golden Khan possibly uses the opportunity and gets his informants everywhere in Glantri. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:18:20 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > thoughts on paladins over the years and now consider them with ideas > that don't mesh with gods very well. They serve the cause of good and > order only. They usually align with a single Immortal. IMC there are also neutral 'Paladins'. Paladin must choose a god to serve, and only few gods accept paladins -- I have used a few paladins of Vanya, a few of Alphatia (PC:s still somehow think that Haldemar is Alphatia's Paladin !?) and so on. Mostly war gods accept paladins, and the paladin must always demonstrate great dedication, selflessness and loyalty. There are few paladins, but every one of them is important person for the gods they serve. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 15:20:52 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while > The Ratlings (I have to come up with a name for them... "Mrikans" after >their patron Immortal? "Not-Wererats" since everybody keeps getting the >wrong impression? :) "Ratlings" is probably what other people call them, >ala Hin/Halflings.) will probably love any such cavern system they find, >and move right in... > > >-- >Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic Well, black and brown rats IRL are in the order Rodentia, family Muridae, genus Rattus. Maybe these creatures could be "murids" or "rodentimen", or some variation of that. There was a race of ratmen in one of Glen Cook's fantasy-novel series, IIRC. They'd originally been created by wizards, who'd frequently used ordinary rats for their experiments in the manner of IRL scientists. Released to eke out a living, the ratmen in TunFaire became its garbagemen, grave-diggers, street-sweepers and so on: latecomers to the city's economy, they got stuck with whatever jobs humans and demihumans disdained. Perhaps these SC rat-people find (demi)human society equally unaccomodating, when they venture out of their subterranean domain. Which could explain why we haven't heard of them before: those who do live among humans may occupy such a low social rank, nobody'd thought they were worth mentioning. ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 13:39:17 -0800 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a whi le > > What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? > > I know Bruce is around somewhere lurking. BTW, does anyone have Ann > Dupuis's email address? I'd like to ask her something. Ann started Grey Ghost Press and is now publishing rules and supplements for the FUDGE RPG. Grey Ghost's website is http://members.aol.com/ghostgames/index.html and its email address is ghostgames@aol.com. Ann also posts occasionally to the FUDGE mailing list using the email address FUDGErpg@aol.com. Mail sent to either of these addresses will almost certainly reach her. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 17:53:19 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Ratlings On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >There was a race of ratmen in one of Glen Cook's fantasy-novel series, >IIRC. They'd originally been created by wizards, who'd frequently used >ordinary rats for their experiments in the manner of IRL scientists. >Released to eke out a living, the ratmen in TunFaire became its garbagemen, >grave-diggers, street-sweepers and so on: latecomers to the city's >economy, they got stuck with whatever jobs humans and demihumans disdained. > >Perhaps these SC rat-people find (demi)human society equally >unaccomodating, when they venture out of their subterranean domain. >Which could explain why we haven't heard of them before: those who do >live among humans may occupy such a low social rank, nobody'd thought >they were worth mentioning. ;-) I like your idea, although I plan on using something similar to Cook's version - the Ratlings suddenly appear in one spot on the Savage Coast, and after some initial kerfluffles ;) , spread across the entire region, filling social niches nobody else wants, plus a few nobody else has yet thought of... Or, maybe, since Mrikitat is an Immortal of Time, he pulls a fast one on a few of his followers and sends them back a few years as an initial "field test" to find out how other people react to his new race... or, maybe, even further back and to a distant region, such as somewhere on Davania, to "breed and multiply"... Hm... Nah, probably not... - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:50:45 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ratlings Found! Ratlings can be found in the OD&D 'starter' module Quest for the Silver Sword in the Thunder Rift setting. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 22:18:25 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ratlings Found! On Thu, 25 Mar 1999 Arminath@aol.com wrote: >Ratlings can be found in the OD&D 'starter' module Quest for the Silver Sword >in the Thunder Rift setting. Jim, thank you. :) I didn't expect this at all, and will do my best to locate and purchase a copy of "Silver Sword". Until then, anybody who is willing to privately e-mail me what the module says about the-race-I-made-up-independantly-even-though-it-seems- it-already-existed-elsewhere :), and believes that doing so will not violate copyright, feel free to do so. - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:34:38 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master On Sun, 21 Mar 1999 22:02:50 -0800, Andrew Theisen wrote: <> From all the monsters encountered in X5, from the statues in Greatrealm and from the pictures on the tables of Hosadus, I always suspected that the creatures from another dimension were in fact Nightmare creatures (lots of malferas in X5). But then I don't see the whole Nightmare lot as terrible creatures, even though IMC I have several Nightmare critters that could fit the role in the Master's story. However, now that you've mentioned it, I think that Hosadus's Epic could have beeen influenced by Outer Beings, but this would lead to an absurd theory: if the OB were in fact responsible for the Master's ascension to power and near immortality, then why does he worship Loki/Bozdogan? Why doesn't he worship the OB? For this reason I tend to believe that he DOES worship Bozdogan and that there were in fact Nightmare Creatures that lent him a hand when he was in dire needs, although which kind of pact he actually sealed with them escapes me at the moment.. On a second thought, he could have also been made a pact with the OB, selling them his soul, and then turned to Bozdogan to cheat the OB. And there Loki taught him how to preserve his soul and not to die, making him the Ultimate Cheater and a loyal minion.. Yes, that could be twisted enough for Loki and the Master, what do you think? But now think of this: what could happen if the OB came to exact their payment? *wink, wink* Hervé, Geoff, we DO know what could happen, don't we? ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:35:02 +0100 (MET) From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:54:04 -0500 (EST), Daniel Boese wrote: << In the Savage Coast, we have dog-people (lupins) and cat-people (rakasta). Given Mrikitat's interests, how long will it be before rat-people appear, in the Savage Coast and elsewhere? (If the Net Almanacs are still being created, I'll gladly work out details for this idea myself... :) )>> You're welcome to join the Mystaran Almanac TM, Daniel. I feel you'd add a great contribution to the SC area. Feel free to contact Hervé or Shawn , I think they're the right people to talk to. << There are two Spheres which don't strongly correspond to the Law/Neutral/ Chaos alignments in Mystara, Thought and Energy. According to the Immortal boxed set, two Multiversal beings have managed to become Old Ones. Does anybody else want to try and explain the connection, if it exists? :)>> Wait, wait. To me Energy is UTTERLY Chaotic in nature, since it fights stagnancy (Matter) and promotes change, and IMHO this is associated with chaos (albeit not as a destructive force like Entropy but rather as a constructive reshaping force). Thought on the other hand escapes definition, as you noted, being someway between Chaos and Neutrality .. but honestly I cannot make any conjectures regarding this and the Immortal became Old Ones (which are, btw? Verthandi is one, and the other one?) << What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately?>> Bruce is still very much active (mainly on the Mystara Message Boards) and wrote a whole net-gazetteer about the Heldannic Territories, along with another strange alternate timeline detailing the invasion of the KW on the part of a huge army of humanoids and the fall of Glantri and some other twisted events. They're all somewhere in Shawn's site. << There are a couple of alternate "official" Mystaras - the Expert Module Mystara, the oD&D/Gazetteer Mystara (with no "crystal spheres" and an infinite number of Outer Planes), and the AD&D Mystara (integrated with Spelljammer and Planescape). Has anybody thought of any interesting ways to reconcile the three (or more, if you include the novels) besides the "alternate reality" suggestion given in the Rules Cyclopedia?>> I did my part in trying and reconcile D&D Mystara with Spelljammer and Planescape. You can find my elaborations and proposals on my site at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Look in the Spelljammer and Mystara section. << Given the fact that the rules for a high-level mortal ascending to divinity given in the back of the High-Level Campaigns rulebook were blatantly stolen from the Immortal ascension rules, are people here still debating the differences between Immortals, Powers, and gods? How about Overgods (ie, Krynn's "Father Chaos" and Toril(?)'s "Ao"), and Old Ones?>> He he.. seems like you spied on us a few months ago.. Anyway, this debate recurs here now and then, and it always ends up with everyone sticking to his own opinion. The recurring opinions are: Deities are equal to Immortals and Old Ones are more powerful than Overgods; Deities are equal to Immortals and Old Ones are Mystara's Overgods; Deities are more powerful than Immortals and OO are Mystara's Overgods; Deities and Overgods would be easily eaten up by a draeden; Alphatia is more powerful than Thyatis; Thyatis is more powerful than Alphatia; Who the heck sent that damn attachement to the whole list? PS: the last one can also be found as: "Who the heck sent that damn binary attachement etc etc." ;) << In the Real World, the phase of the moon and when it rises and sets are inextricably linked - the full moon rises at sunset, and the new moon rises at sunrise. In Mystara, the rules are different, but there are some rules, otherwise the charts we've been given wouldn't be so regular. We can be fairly sure that Matera keeps one face towards Mystara, because the Immortal city of Pandius is there; has anybody figured out an explanation for what causes half the moon to be dark, half light?>> No, and honestly, I couldn't give a damn, nor would my players. And even if I found a sound astronomical explanation (something I doubt) and told it to my players, I'm sure they and I would not remember it for more than 10 minutes.. ;) Sorry, Daniel, but I really don't care about this one :p << What other neat stuff has been talked about on the list lately? :)>> Is Kol a Shadowelf? Is Wulf a pawn of Synn? Is Canon unbreakable? Is war the best way to solve controversies (proposed by Gentle Folk)? Is the world really Hollow? Stay tuned for the answers after the break.. ;) PS: It's a pleasure for me to see the return of you, Daniel. Unfortunately, you got off the list just when I got on, many years ago, and I have always seen you like a sort of ghost that haunted this place. Many actually believed you didn't exist and that your articles had in fact been written by some conspirators that wanted to put up a case and shake Mystara's axis. Now I hope you'll prove this conspiration theory false.. ;) Welcome back! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #148 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, March 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 149 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while [MYSTARA] - Possible Nithian Offshoot Cultures Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master [MYSTARA] - Lie and legend ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:12:36 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: > Maybe the Ratmen of Mystara populate a realm below the Savage Coast? I > think that sounds good.... > > Håvard > Hey, great idea, Hevard. I think I just might incorporate that inot my setting. I like using the lupins and rakasta, so this just might make for a good three-way war in the Savage Coast. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 12:44:30 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while >Wait, wait. To me Energy is UTTERLY Chaotic in nature, since it fights >stagnancy (Matter) and promotes change, and IMHO this is associated with >chaos (albeit not as a destructive force like Entropy but rather as a >constructive reshaping force).< Very true. >Thought on the other hand escapes definition, as you noted, being someway >between Chaos and Neutrality Don't forget: the Full Hierarch of Thought -- Odin -- is of Lawful alignment. Again, the Thought-Sphere seems to partake of all the possible alignments of thinking beings ... which is as it should be. Otherwise, you'd have to call it the Sphere of >insert alignment here< Thoughts, not the Sphere of (all) Thought. Hmmmm... if Energy is the Sphere which is closely associated with magic, might Thought -- i.e. deduction, reasoning, and innovation -- be the Sphere that's most concerned with technology...? > .. but honestly I cannot make any conjectures >regarding this and the Immortal became Old Ones (which are, btw? Verthandi >is one, and the other one?)< Do we know for a fact that only two Immortals have ascended to join the Old Ones, or is this merely what the Immortals believe to be true? If it's the latter, they could of course be wrong about that (as Khoronus was mistaken in Gaz3, in blaming the NoS's effects on Energy-Immortals rather than the Old Ones). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:00:34 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Hmmmm... if Energy is the Sphere which is closely associated with magic, > might Thought -- i.e. deduction, reasoning, and innovation -- be the Sphere > that's most concerned with technology...? Interesting idea. But the actual practice of magic would fall under thought. Magic itself is a wild untamed force. Thus a mage is kind of a combination of the two. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:07:04 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a ... In a message dated 3/26/99 10:45:41 AM Mountain Standard Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << >Wait, wait. To me Energy is UTTERLY Chaotic in nature, since it fights >stagnancy (Matter) and promotes change, and IMHO this is associated with >chaos (albeit not as a destructive force like Entropy but rather as a >constructive reshaping force).< >> Of course, another way to look at it would be that Energy is the Chaotic realm (always changing) and Entropy the Lawful realm (working towards a "sameness" for everything). Entropy works towards the ultimate following of Law, where everything is stagnant due to the very law of Entropy. Would put a whole different point of view to the ideas of Law vs. Chaos. Just a thought. One Eye the Dwarf *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 14:41:15 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: >On Thu, 25 Mar 1999, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >> Maybe the Ratmen of Mystara populate a realm below the Savage Coast? I >> think that sounds good.... >Hey, great idea, Hevard. I think I just might incorporate that inot my >setting. I like using the lupins and rakasta, so this just might make >for a good three-way war in the Savage Coast. "Three-way war"? I hadn't planned on starting that for at least a couple of months, if not longer... :) After all, there's only a few thousand Ratlings to start off with, so they're going to avoid any fights if they can. Of course, they /are/ fairly Chaotic creatures, and if there's an UnderEarth-style cavern system underneath the Savage Coast, they'll be able to use that as a base of operations and transport system... perhaps, if the rakasta take an immediate disliking to the ratlings, we'll see the start of some long-term guerrilla warfare? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:59:08 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while >On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: >>Hey, great idea, Hevard. I think I just might incorporate that inot my >>setting. I like using the lupins and rakasta, so this just might make >>for a good three-way war in the Savage Coast. > > "Three-way war"? I hadn't planned on starting that for at least a couple >of months, if not longer... :) After all, there's only a few thousand >Ratlings to start off with, so they're going to avoid any fights if they >can. Of course, they /are/ fairly Chaotic creatures, and if there's an >UnderEarth-style cavern system underneath the Savage Coast, they'll be >able to use that as a base of operations and transport system... perhaps, >if the rakasta take an immediate disliking to the ratlings, we'll see the >start of some long-term guerrilla warfare? > >-- >Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic On the other hand, if these guys breed anywhere NEAR as quickly as ordinary rats do, there won't be "only a few thousand of them" for long.... ;-) Maybe, instead of the other SC races' launching a full-scale war on them at first sight, the ratlings could begin to integrate themselves into (non-rakastan) society ... only to get blamed -- wrongly or rightly -- for a plague that strikes the Savage Coast shortly after they'd emerged onto the surface. Mystaran healers probably know that mundane rats transmit diseases, so these guys would look like the perfect scapegoats, if that were to happen. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 17:49:47 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters > I'm not saying that the PC's stats has to reflect yourself, just the > class/alignment/philosophy that's more like yourself. I love to cook and to > eat (though I don't smoke) and play music. Plus, I hate sports. That's a > halfling alright! Ah...hmm, a populist,Jewish fantasy lit fan, history-lover and social worker. Magic-user doesn't really match my personality - too theoretical/mystical. Thief and fighter certainly don't match. I don't think I'm as snooty as an elf (I hope not) nor am I a dwarf or gnome at heart due to my temperance. I like nature and am an environmentalist, but I'm no druid or forester. Rakes aren't really close either, nor are sphinxes or gremlins (though I have an odd sense of humor and a love of trivia). I think clerics come the closest - they want to help people, base their political beliefs upon their religious ones and are quite bookish. I doubt I'm as well-rounded as the typical one, but the outlook is quite similar. And while I enjoy playing clerics, I don't believe I've ever modeled a char on myself. I *have* based a MUSH char on myself on occasion, with mixed results. > If you look at the AD&D attrbitutes tables [I know, AD&D sux] there are > plenty of abilities relating to the attributes... like weight-lifting and > such. So it's not that hard to get YOUR stats! Omega (a roguelike game) does something more in depth than this, using D&D-ish stats and scales. My stats come up as - 6 STR, 13 CON, 6 DEX, 6 AGI (agility), 17 INT and 5 POW (magical power). > >Then again, being short might have helped me > >appreciate dwarves and halflings more :) > > OTOH, I'm pretty tall, so my halfling-ness is more concealed! :) Well, I'm working on the dwarven beard, though it's scrawny ATM. - - Mischa Gelman Senior, University of Pittsburgh Feminism and minority rights do not fare well in Africa, the Islamic world, or most of Asia. America, portrayed not so long ago as the center of world imperialism and oppression, turns out to be the best hope - Jim Sleeper *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 01:02:27 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Martins?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions - -----Mensagem original----- De: Jacob Skytte >IMC I've transferred the nocturnal species to areas with large >floating islands blocking out the sun continually. And some of them >could have been transferred to subterranean caverns or under dense >foliage, where there would be perpetual twilight. But of course >there'd be no moon... But then there wouldn't be a moon in the HM, >would there?!? :) Or, an idea I always wanted to toy it, in the under side of the floating continents, in the HW. That would provide full protection from the sun, or, if day ad night are required, just make them rotate. I know the material describing them don´t suport this theory as the gravity in the "down" side of the islands don´t atract people to the islands, but who has checked every island? André Martins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:33:30 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions >>IMC I've transferred the nocturnal species to areas with large >>floating islands blocking out the sun continually. And some of them >>could have been transferred to subterranean caverns or under dense >>foliage, where there would be perpetual twilight. > >Or, an idea I always wanted to toy it, in the under side of the floating >continents, in the HW. That would provide full protection from the sun, or, >if day ad night are required, just make them rotate. I know the material >describing them don´t suport this theory as the gravity in the "down" side >of the islands don´t atract people to the islands, but who has checked >every island? Well... I'd originally passed on the idea of nocturnals' living beneath stationary floating continents, IMC, because the HW's a sphere, so an awful lot of light would reflect off the surrounding, illuminated ground into the "shadow zone" under the FCs. It'd be sort of like trying to block the light from a lamp by sticking your hand between a light bulb, and its lampshade: light-rays bounce at slanted angles off the lampshade's inner surface, so it's only the tiny center part (the "umbra") of your hand's shadow that gets particularly dark. While HW natives might think it's awfully dark under an FC -- they've only experienced the noonday sun, to compare it to! -- it'd fall FAR short of genuine nighttime, near as I can tell ... shorter and shorter of "real" darkness, the higher-up the continent in question floats. Living on the UNDERside of the FCs should work fine, though: nice idea, Andre! Perhaps DMs who use the SJ rules for space travel -- and hence, for gravity -- instead of the CoM rules, could adopt that concept. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 18:44:42 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >>On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: >>>Hey, great idea, Hevard. I think I just might incorporate that inot my >>>setting. I like using the lupins and rakasta, so this just might make >>>for a good three-way war in the Savage Coast. >> "Three-way war"? I hadn't planned on starting that for at least a couple >>of months, if not longer... :) After all, there's only a few thousand >>Ratlings to start off with, so they're going to avoid any fights if they >>can. Of course, they /are/ fairly Chaotic creatures, and if there's an >>UnderEarth-style cavern system underneath the Savage Coast, they'll be >>able to use that as a base of operations and transport system... perhaps, >>if the rakasta take an immediate disliking to the ratlings, we'll see the >>start of some long-term guerrilla warfare? >On the other hand, if these guys breed anywhere NEAR as quickly as ordinary >rats do, there won't be "only a few thousand of them" for long.... ;-) Well, given that ordinary rats have a lifespan of 2-3 years (5 on the outside), and Ratlings almost certainly live about twenty times longer, we'd have to scale the Ratlings' reproductive rate accordingly. Still, given that a healthy female rat can birth up to 12 young per litter, with a bunch of litters per year... and the humanoids think /they/ have a population pressure problem! :) >Maybe, instead of the other SC races' launching a full-scale war on them at >first sight, the ratlings could begin to integrate themselves into >(non-rakastan) society ... only to get blamed -- wrongly or rightly -- for >a plague that strikes the Savage Coast shortly after they'd emerged onto >the surface. Mystaran healers probably know that mundane rats transmit >diseases, so these guys would look like the perfect scapegoats, if that >were to happen. Sharon, please consider your idea stolen (appropriated, imitated, causing inspiration, whichever term you prefer :) ). I've already been thinking vaguely about doing something with a Ratling plague, but, since I like your idea, I'll save myself some skull-sweat and use that. :) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 16:59:23 -0700 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Possible Nithian Offshoot Cultures I sent this post before, but I don't think it was ever received by the list. So here goes again... Nithians had many colonies and outposts. Here is my take on what some of them might have evolved into if they survived the immortal purge (by being on other planes/ planets/ crystal spheres or whatever.) The Tome of Whatever (can't remember the name of it off hand) is supposed to have the name of every Nithian colony inscribed within its pages. If read by the Pharaoh, the Tome opens a gateway to that colony. This would have been useful for the Pharaoh to keep track of his Mystaran colonies, but why not keep track of other planar ones as well? Hope you enjoy, and I look forward to hearing your comments and your own ideas about lost Nithian Outposts. Menkor-Thoth These are magic users devoted to researching and creating magical beings and monsters.  This culture spans several planets in several different crystal spheres.  Their system of gateways are still quite active and in good shape, however spelljamming pyramids have fallen out of use. Each of the colonies/planets is ruled by a separate pharaoh.  The Menkothians have grown away from their immortals, and tend to rely solely upon their magic.  Each of the pharaohs is a wizard king of immense power. Foremost among the magics of the Menkothians is the craft of Lifeshaping. These are the very same wizards, whose ancestors back on Mystara, created the beastmen, or gnolls.  Today several unique species of creatures live with, and serve, the Menkothians. Menkothian society is based upon a strict caste system, with human wizards being at the top of the list.  Next comes the rest of the human population (whose main job is to control the rest of the species in the system).  Each of the species created by the Menkothians has a unique place in the caste system, and the culture. It is rumored that several elite forces in the Menkothian military have been seen weilding weapons made of a red metal.   One of the wizard kings may have found an opperating portal that leads back to Mystara, to one of their old colony outposts along what is now called the Savage Coast.   He will surely use this to his advantage in his dealings with the other pharohs.   If he discovers the properties of the Red Curse, he may even also try to import it to his home world.  The Red Curse, or one aspect of it at least, was developed by the ancient Nithians as a weapon. Ebor (pronounced Eb-Or) These clerical orders are most like their progenitor culture.   The Eborian culture dominates one entire planet, with several small colonies on different planets.  Eborians keep in contact with their colonies in two ways.   First, they still heavily use the ancient Nithian practice of spelljamming pyramids.  This form of communication is very slow however. The second is by using the Portal system.  Eborian Portals are not as powerful as those of their Menkothian cousins.  People looking at the Portal can see and hear across to the other side, but can not physically pass through. Eborian clerics can send their spiritual force across the portals to inhabit the body of a specially prepaired mummy (usually a former cleric of their order).  In this way, the clergy can maintain a firm hold on their colony states. It is rumored that a lone Eborian pyramid ship crashed somewhere on Mystara.  All abord the ship parished, but a working Portal survived the crash.  The Eborian priests have been trying to make contact with suitable recepticles (mummies) on the other side of the Portal.  If the pyramid crashed anywhere near an ancient Nithian outpost, the priests may just be able to accomplish their goal. Does anyone have any ideas about other "lost" Nithian colonies? John Calvin jtcalvin@us.ibm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 20:55:37 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while >>On the other hand, if these guys breed anywhere NEAR as quickly as ordinary >>rats do, there won't be "only a few thousand of them" for long.... ;-) > > Well, given that ordinary rats have a lifespan of 2-3 years (5 on the >outside), and Ratlings almost certainly live about twenty times longer, >we'd have to scale the Ratlings' reproductive rate accordingly. > Still, given that a healthy female rat can birth up to 12 young per >litter, with a bunch of litters per year... and the humanoids think /they/ >have a population pressure problem! :) Yep. If ratlings' litters are even half as large as normal rats', any SC city in which they settle will be up to its rooftops in squalling baby "pinkies", before long! :-D Instead of scaling new races' birth rates in proportion to their lifespan, it's better to calibrate for body size of the newborns. (Otherwise, you get ridiculous figures like elven mothers being pregnant for eight years straight... :-P) How big were you intending these ratlings to be, when they're fully grown...? If they're human-sized, there's probably no way they could have more than one litter per year: the babies wouldn't have time to finish nursing, before their mother whelped another batch. > Sharon, please consider your idea stolen (appropriated, imitated, causing >inspiration, whichever term you prefer :) ). I've already been thinking >vaguely about doing something with a Ratling plague, but, since I like >your idea, I'll save myself some skull-sweat and use that. :) Glad to be of service. Gotta keep the number of sweaty skulls in the world to a minimum! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 21:46:40 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >>>On the other hand, if these guys breed anywhere NEAR as quickly as ordinary >>>rats do, there won't be "only a few thousand of them" for long.... ;-) >> Well, given that ordinary rats have a lifespan of 2-3 years (5 on the >>outside), and Ratlings almost certainly live about twenty times longer, >>we'd have to scale the Ratlings' reproductive rate accordingly. >> Still, given that a healthy female rat can birth up to 12 young per >>litter, with a bunch of litters per year... and the humanoids think /they/ >>have a population pressure problem! :) >Yep. If ratlings' litters are even half as large as normal rats', any SC >city in which they settle will be up to its rooftops in squalling baby >"pinkies", before long! :-D > >Instead of scaling new races' birth rates in proportion to their lifespan, >it's better to calibrate for body size of the newborns. (Otherwise, you >get ridiculous figures like elven mothers being pregnant for eight years >straight... :-P) How big were you intending these ratlings to be, when >they're fully grown...? If they're human-sized, there's probably no way >they could have more than one litter per year: the babies wouldn't have >time to finish nursing, before their mother whelped another batch. Given that the ratlings are humanoid, I think I'll declare the average litter size to be 2. It might be interesting if mother ratlings could nurse more than 2 at a time, but I'll simply point anybody interested in that sort of thing to Doug Winger's art and keep the ratlings similar to humans in that respect. As for how big they grow, and how long pregnancy lasts... Human-size should be the upper limit, halfling-size the lower. Considering how large and small real-life rats grow, why should I limit the ratlings in that respect? :) Nine months should be the upper limit for pregnancy, perhaps six or seven months would be a better figure. Actually, how does this sound - humans can generally have up to one baby per year. My mother's mother, for example, had /22/ siblings. More importantly, humans can, and often do, have /zero/ babies in a given year. Ratlings don't have this choice. Mrikitat based their reproductive cycle on the rat, including a rapid estrus cycle. Since rats go into estrus about every 4 days, let's slow the ratlings down to, say, one lunar month. (Mrikitat is a wererat, after all - we might as well throw something in to do with the moon for his ratlings.) Assuming there are any male ratlings around, a female ratling gives birth to two young, every seven months or so. This is going to put a huge population pressure on them in the future; they're going to fill up the caverns under the Savage Coast within a few decades, unless something happens to slow them down... such as a plague or ten, or starvation, or a few wars, or sending large numbers to found colonies elsewhere... all of which is prime material for role-playing background. What do you think? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 00:19:56 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. Jeff Daly wrote: > Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. > I leave the list for a week and a half....and Jeff looses his marbles....or did i miss something????...lol - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 02:32:16 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master Andrew Theisen wrote: > I was rereading some of the old Princess Ark articles by Bruce Heard last > night. It was kind of cool how much he foreshadowed the events of Wrath of > the Immortals, well before the boxed set ever hit the stands (even before > any sort of hints that it was coming out emerged). > > The only thing that bothers me is that, throughout the course of the > series, the Heldannic Knights have serious dealings with the Master and his > minions. It is even said at one point that the Heldannic Knights would aid > in the Master's assault, keeping the eastern countries for themselves, and > allowing the Master to have the Republic, Shires, and Sind, and that the > two would jointly crush the Thyatian Empire. > > So what happened to this alliance between the series and the boxed set, I > wonder? Heldann had no such alliance with the Master in WotI- in fact, they > allied with Thyatis against Alphatia. Anyone have any thoughts on the > evidently disbanded alliance between Heldann and Hule? > Well when Venya got word than her Knights were plotting against Thyatis...this would have upset her to no end...after all you can have one group of your followers kill another group of your followers. So she most likely manipulated the Knights into not trusting Hule (a difficult task....NOT:) and at the same time made them realize that Alphatia was a bigger threat to them. Anyone else come up with anything??? - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:25:20 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > Sharon, please consider your idea stolen (appropriated, imitated, causing > inspiration, whichever term you prefer :) ). I've already been thinking > vaguely about doing something with a Ratling plague, but, since I like > your idea, I'll save myself some skull-sweat and use that. :) > > > -- > Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic Consider it stolen twice over. :) I'm never one for passing on a good idea when it comes around. Don't worry, I'll remeber to thank you at some point in the game...maybe name the Ratling matron after you? Nah...It's not like I'm mad at you. Maybe you'll be the healer who comes up with the cure for the plague. I'll let you know what happens. :) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 10:30:35 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > This is going to put a huge population pressure on them in the future; > they're going to fill up the caverns under the Savage Coast within a few > decades, unless something happens to slow them down... such as a plague or > ten, or starvation, or a few wars, or sending large numbers to found > colonies elsewhere... all of which is prime material for role-playing > background. > > What do you think? I like it. How about a new character class to go with it: the Exterminator. He can charge high rates and have twenty-four hour service... No. I guess that's been done already. ;-) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 11:16:32 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Marco wrote: >On a second thought, he could have also been made a pact with the OB, >selling them his soul, and then turned to Bozdogan to cheat the OB. And >there Loki taught him how to preserve his soul and not to die, making him >the Ultimate Cheater and a loyal minion.. Yes, that could be twisted enough >for Loki and the Master, what do you think? This is possible. Those who know of the OB (if you use them in your campaign, of course) also know that, in exchange for various "services" (ie: helping the various servitor races of the Outer Beings fulfill their missions, locating artifacts that will weaken their prisons, etc.), the OB will promise many things, power being among them. Many have taken them up on the proposition, pledging eternal servitude for power. Those who have failed, or those who, by the whims of the OB, are marked for some hideous fate after death, end up with their masters in those prison dimensions - of course suffering agonies that are best not mentioned here. Making a deal with them (as in that article I wrote on the subject a while back) always has its price, and it is the intelligent person who, in realizing this, will do everything possible to avoid this fate. So the Master would likely be eager for *any* means to avoid becoming some hideous monster's plaything for eternity upon his death. Of course, woe to the fool (Immortals ot otherwise) who seeks to capitalize on their imprisonment by "stealing their flock", or otherwise trying to take their place... >But now think of this: what could happen if the OB came to exact their >payment? *wink, wink* Hervé, Geoff, we DO know what could happen, don't we? ;) ;-) Of course. While they may be sealed away in prison dimensions, the OB always have ways of reaching those they seek - and the indirect methods they employ can be quite ingenious. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:27:34 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lie and legend Warning: No relation to Mystara - only to the MML! I have just read one of James' last messages in which he said some not so nice things about me. As the BIG and MIGHTY ADMIN has called back us to order I will not answer to them. Of course you can assume that I have a complete other opinion about my person. I must apologize for my message which stood at the beginning of this affair. As I was a little bit disappointed that James had simply ignored my article about Bellissaria it became a little bit to provoking. Now I have learned that he simply didn't know it before. Sorry, James! But in a try to prevent another flame war, please let me tell you some words: I am very occupied with my work and I don't have too much spare time. So when I want to say something I try to to be short. To write one or two sentences is much faster than to write one ore two pages. Some members call this rudeness. Please don't do this. Call it "shortness" and don't interpret too much into it. Unfortunately I'm never absolutely sure how a remark by me is perceived by people who have learned English as little children. And please remember in future that I don't take roleplaying too seriously. It's a game, and it's supposed to make fun. Led by this spirit most of my short remarks are purely humour or irony. When I called James' article a "lie", it was irony of course. Folks, wouldn't it be absolutely ridiculous to call a statement about world a lie, which never has existed, only on much paper and in the brains of many people? Therefore I have weakened my statement down to a "legend" one sentence later. All in all it was no more than an advertisement for my article. So please don't suggest always evil intentions by me. Jamuga Khan "Hear and follow the rules of the Mighty Khan: 1. Have fun! 2. Have more fun! 3. Don't take the whole matter too serious." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #149 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, March 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 150 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 6) [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 7) Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics: Correction. Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... [MYSTARA] - Trying to Get off this LIST Re: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. Re: [MYSTARA] - Trying to Get off this LIST Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:36:29 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics James Ruhland has written to me his opinion about Alphatian clerics. As it might be of interest for the MML I will say something about this matter. The main point is that I have put clerics, paladins and avengers into the Grand Council which is not backed up by the official sources. Here my thoughts about that: Of course I know that according to DotE only "magic-users" are allowed to become members of the Grand Council or emperors but there was a an obvious contradiction. I will not bore anybody with citing from DotE (and I don't have the desire to search all those pages), but it is written in these books that there is no prejudice against clerics and clerical magic. Nor exist a disadvantage for clerics. The prohibition to become a member of the Grand Council or the emperor/empress would imply both. One of those assumptions has to be uncorrect or misinterpreted. After a long thinking I decided for me that the sentences which sounded like a paragraph from a law must be the truth. Originating from this I concluded that "mage" or "magic-user" is (nowadays) the description for anybody able to cast magical spells - regardless of the source of this power. That does not mean that clerical order have as much power than in other countries. The ORDERS don't have the power, but the individual CLERICS can be extremely influential and powerful men or women. The typical Alphatain cleric has only so much faith in his immortal as he needs to become a cleric, but he don't serve in or for a order, but only for his personal goals. The clerical orders, constantly "manned" with only a very low number of unusual faithful clerics are no more than clubs in the real world. The same must be true for avengers and fighters. Of course not all Alphatians like this, but what should they do? The Empire is claiming since its founding that every Alphatian with the ability to cast spells is a noble and can (theoretically) reach all positions. Let's imagine a paladin at a Alphatian court demanding the status of a noble. What kind of judgement the judge would make? Think about it... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 19:08:25 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Melian Dialogue, first draft. [LONG] > > You call me an ignorant - I'm not. I know nearly > > everything ever written about Mystara and D&D. > > Erp. > > That's a bold statement. Even I wouldn't support that. > > Ethan Only a little bit as I have indeed read nearly all stuff. Of course I might forget some details from time to time. Time is the essence as it is a short good. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:40:15 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... > LOL....oh PLEASE dont make them take it off the list......this has > to be one of the most amusing disagreements i have read in recent times. You will have to convince the ADMIN. Hm, I would not bet a cent on it (even not a half one)... Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:46:46 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions > IMC I've transferred the nocturnal species to areas with large > floating islands blocking out the sun continually. And some of them > could have been transferred to subterranean caverns or under dense > foliage, where there would be perpetual twilight. But of course > there'd be no moon... But then there wouldn't be a moon in the HM, > would there?!? :) How do define the term "moon"? (One definition shows some thousands of moons in Earth's orbit) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:52:01 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > "In recent years, clerics have been welcomed for the healing benefits > they confer - the plague nearly devastated Glantri - but smart > clerics will be demure of manner and quiet of proselytizing. While it > is no longer a crime to be a cleric in the Principalities, it IS a > crime to preach religious beliefs." > > So I guess that most lawful clerics would care for the Glantrian > population and want to save lives from diseases and the like, and > they'd just have to accept that they should lay low and find > believers by helping out and accepting those that want to convert in > gratitude. I've never understood this - really! It would be like Hitler had stopped his campaign against Jews because he would have needed them. Would they have trusted him? Probably not! Why should the clerics trust the Glantrinians? My cleric would fear that after fighting against the plague the Glantrinians would put him into fire. (OTOH he is the most paranoid human on Mystara of course.) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 18:56:30 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > Well, lots of luck to your poor PC. As you can see the Thothians have > a great thing going for them. And though they can't use their special > force outside of Thothia itself, they've got that pesky undead force, > that they can continually reinforce with casualties from both their > own ranks as well as the enemy's. In fact if your have to retreat > >from Thothians make sure you bring your dead or chop them up real > bad, if you've got the time for it. And if they retreat make sure to > get rid of the dead or the Thothians will have them fighting you in > your next military encounter...They're REAL badasses these > Thothians...after all they kicked Thyatis' butt several times in a > row (according to the Almanacs)... But one question remains: Why got Thyatis got kicked its ass? The most experienced Thyatian wizards and clerics are of level 36, and there are some hundreds of them! Why they have not fought against Thothia? Even if they had quelled the Thothian plague it would have been useful for Thyatis. Probably the high-level spellcaster have acquired the "Alphatian Disease" of egoism. ("Why should I do that? There are many other who could it.") Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:00:36 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 6) The Adventures of Admiral Meriander I have told you that admiral Meriander was washed off the deck of his flag-ship. Of course he did not die as he was a cleric of Protius who are known to be immune against drowning. On the other hand he drifted some days in the sea before he was washed ashore the Bellissarian coast. He was shaken by the experience, and even if he would have been able to heal such a disease he could not help himself as he had no longer the ability to concentrate his mind on casting his spells. What he met, what he did and how he survived is unknown, but he survived indeed and wandered into the inland, maybe in a try to flee the ocean. The Voyage of the Blue Fish On Vertmir, 20, Captain Lagrius left General Horken aboard the rescue boat Blue Fish. He sailed north to the place where today the city of Princetown is located. He reached this place on Islamir, 8. At this point he could not resist the desire to explore this new river. My personal theorem is that he got an inspiration from his Immortal, as he was like Admiral Meriander a cleric of Protius. From one aspect it was the wrong decision: Had he waited only five more days, the Alatia would have him picked up, but when Captain Alinquin passed the river there was nothing to discover. On Islamir, 16, the crew of the Blue Fish discovered the giant inland lake of Bellissaria. Captain Lagrius followed the north coast and by the end of the month, on Islamir, 28, he left the lake via the Lagrius River. On Andrumir, 20, the captain reached the mouth, where the flottilla had made first landfall more than four months before. Captain Lagrius returned to the lake and completed the circling of the lake. On Cyprimir, 20, two sailors found a man living in a cave. He was obviously insane and ran shouting through the woods. They brought him back to the boat and Captain Lagrius examined him. To his surprise, the man was Admiral Meriander. With his clerical abilities he could calm down the admiral. On Hastmir, 4, Captain Lagrius founded the Blueside Camp, where he planned to pass the winter. In the next months he was finally able to heal Admiral Meriander fully. The End of the Campaign When the Alatia reached Aaslin, Admiral Notrion could sum up the results of the Expedition. One ship was lost, the admiral and one captain missing, but the coast of the continents were nearly charted and two bases were erected. He decided to send back both remaining ships to the naval shipyards in Eagret to be repaired and provisioned during the winter. The faster Alatia got the additional order to complete the charting and left Aaslin on Andrumir, 15. The Alatia complete the charting on Cyprimir, 8. After that Captain Alinquin set a course home and reached Eagret on Hastmir, 8. The Bellissaria left Aaslin on Andrumir, 21, and reached Eagret on Hastmir, 23, more than seven months since departure. Consequences from the Expedition The mission had managed to chart the coasts of Bellissaria in one year and established a naval base, a marine's fort and a camp which were later on developed into the capitals of three of the Bellissarian kingdoms. Further the Alatian Islands were discovered and charted and some parts of the Skotharian coast, hitherto absolutely unknown. To be continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 19:07:19 +0100 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 7) Summary of the Alphatian Year 103 During the winter the admiralty had to consider the results of the expedition. The admirals applied for more funds to develope the two bases into fully functional naval bases. The emperor and the Grand Council granted those funds and started an colonization campaign. Not very much nobles volunteered to settle the new lands, but some commoners were willing to set a distance between them and the nobility on the main island. The promotion of Commander Hook were confirmed but she losed the command over the Bellissaria. Instead she got a new command over the Zamara, another great sailing ship newly assigned to the flottilla of Admiral Notrion. New commander of the Bellissaria became Captain Alinquin because of his seniority. The old Alatia and two additional ships, the Dobar and the Ambur, completed the flottilla. In spring of AY 103 Captain Alinquin led a imposing fleet consisting of the flottilla and a number of transporters back to Aaslin. Half of the supply and colonists were set ashore here, and the the other half were sent to General Horken. Admiral Notrion himself sailed with the Bellissaria to the southern base, while Captain Hook escorted the transporters to the Naval base at Rardish. From there she set sail to the great bay, now known as the Sea of Zamara. The accompanying small saling ship, the Dobar, dared to enter the relatively small Dobar Bay. It was the captain of the Dobar too, who noticed the marlins east of Cape Hook and called the coast east of the Dobar Bay the Rock Coast. Those names were later on used to name the both Alphatian colonial cities on the south coast of Esterhold. On the way to Horken the scouting Alatia found Admiral Meriander, Captain Lagrius and the surviving sailors from the Aaslin, who had left their camp on the shores of the lake. The admirals in far Sundsvall reacted quickly and granted positions to all. Admiral Notrion was affirmed as governor of the territories around his base, General Horken likewise became governor of the southern territories, Admiral Meriander was appointed supreme commander of the navy for the complete island of Bellissaria with the Horken Naval Base as his command post. Captain Lagrius was accused on a court martial for the lost of the Aaslin. He was sentenced guilty and decided to retire. While being in the imperial capital he applied for the territories around the great inland lake with the option to become king later on. Due to an mistake by an scribe in the service of the Grand Council the petition were formulated to become king NOW! The matter was handled late in a night, and most members still present did not realize what they were voting about. No more than a month after his court martial Captain Lagrius was appointed King of Lagrius! Of course the mistake were discovered quickly, and some reorganizations were committed, but to keep the face the Grand Council did not reject the petition. Of course this inspired Notrion and Horken, and they started their own campaigns at once, but those did not end in AY 103. The Bellissarian Navy had to be reorganized now that there were two admirals. Admiral Notrion got the Zamara under Captain Hook as flag-ship, and Admiral Meriander got back the Bellissaria under Captain Alinquin. Not very much is to be reported about this year, only that Admiral Meriander led some ships to the Alatian Islands to do more explorations. One ship, the trustworthy Alatia, even advanced to the south coast of the Isle of Dawn. The Fate of the Discoverers King Lagrius founded a dynasty which lasted until Emperor Zandor came in AY 2011. Notrion and Horken both became kings in AY 107, but they killed each other in a duel only two years later. The both kingdoms were at the edge of a war in this year, but since then the relationships were always cordially. Admiral Meriander died in a naval battle in AY 116. Admiral Alinquin, commander of Alatian Archipelago, participated in that battle and reached a tight victory. After that he retired and founded the colony of Ambur. But that is a other story which shall not be told here. To be continued...somehow, in another time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:45:55 -0600 From: "James Ruhland" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics: Correction. > > James Ruhland has written to me his opinion > about Alphatian clerics. > Actually, that's not precisely correct. I know what was written, and what I sent to Jamuga. On the subject of Clerics and Paladins/Avengers, my theories are fully explained and posted on TSRs MMB, and if anyone is curious to see what they really are can find them there. As for the rest, I'm not going to comment one way or the other, and I consider this episode closed. If Jamuga wants to continue it, as is evidently the case, he can write me directly and privately; otherwise I simply request that he cease refering to me in any way in his posts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:00:39 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Martins?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master - -----Mensagem original----- De: Jerry Hovenanian > > Well when Venya got word than her Knights were plotting against >Thyatis...this would have upset her to no end...after all you can have one >group of your followers kill another group of your followers. So she most >likely manipulated the Knights into not trusting Hule (a difficult >task....NOT:) and at the same time made them realize that Alphatia was a bigger >threat to them. > > Anyone else come up with anything??? I did and you may find it in someone´s web page, I am sure (Tim, I know you are out there and by no means check it, if there is a file about Vanya written by me in a page you check, do NOT read it, unless you want to spoil the fun in the game). Or I could send you and anybody else who might be interested the details, as soon as I bring them to my new computer or send you a small summary. I could repost it, but the idea didn´t seem very popular the 2 times I posted it. Although it did create a lot of discussions (something this listis certainly lacking :), so maybe I should try that again (oh, no, him again!) André Martins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 16:54:21 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Martins?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions >Well... I'd originally passed on the idea of nocturnals' living beneath >stationary floating continents, IMC, because the HW's a sphere, so an awful >lot of light would reflect off the surrounding, illuminated ground into the >"shadow zone" under the FCs. It'd be sort of like trying to block the >light from a lamp by sticking your hand between a light bulb, and its >lampshade: light-rays bounce at slanted angles off the lampshade's inner >surface, so it's only the tiny center part (the "umbra") of your hand's >shadow that gets particularly dark. While HW natives might think it's >awfully dark under an FC -- they've only experienced the noonday sun, to >compare it to! -- it'd fall FAR short of genuine nighttime, near as I can >tell ... shorter and shorter of "real" darkness, the higher-up the >continent in question floats. Not if you make the light of the red sun heavy. This way, it would be easy for it to go down to the surface, but it might lose intensity in the reverse way. The closer a FC was to the sun, the darker it would be its under side, as the light would have more work to get up there. If you also postulate that the light generated by the fires in the cities in the HW are not heavy and goes up normally, then living in the under side of a FC might be like a night where, fom times to times, some short-lived stars appear (fires) and where you can see odd moons ocasionally (other FC flying lower, as the red sun reflected light would be coming from closer areas). While I am in the subject, other ideas I had about the HW was to make its central space curved, so that the real distance to its sun would be much bigger than one would suppose from the geometry of Mystara. Maybe the red sun is as big as a real star and the space was so much curved by Immortals that it fits there. Incidentally, this would open space for a lot of FC and we could have mixed types of FC. The lower ones are exactly like we have seen, with the gravity always pointing to HW crust. However, above a certain altitude, where the effects of spatial distorion get bigger, the types of FC change. Those up there are so far from Mystara that their natural gravity bacomes predominant and they atract everything to themselves. Personally, I would make Alphatia one of those upper continents. These help solves a number of problems, more specifically, what to do about the ocean shores of Alphatia. As I have proposed before, a spherical FC could hold Alphatia, with seas surrounding its main land. And, if it rotates, we would again have day and night. That wouldn´t mean destruction to thousands of poor vampires and other undeads inhabiting the continent, as I am sure many Immortals would want to preserve them together with the Empire. >Living on the UNDERside of the FCs should work fine, though: nice idea, >Andre! Perhaps DMs who use the SJ rules for space travel -- and hence, for >gravity -- instead of the CoM rules, could adopt that concept. Thanks. But, as you see above, you can even use the CoM rules for the whole explored space inside the HW. It just works differently closer to the sun. André Martins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:26:09 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Distinction, and why it is a distinction *with* a differe... Jamuga Khan meandered fecklessly... > > LOL....oh PLEASE dont make them take it off the list......this has > > to be one of the most amusing disagreements i have read in recent times. > > > You will have to convince the ADMIN. > > Hm, I would not bet a cent on it (even not a half one)... That would be a wise choice. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:04:44 +0800 From: "Darren Bradley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Trying to Get off this LIST I have been trying for quite a while to get off this mailing list unsuccesfully I have used and sent the email asking to get off this list with the appropriate syntax, yet still I am on this list. Could somebody please take me off of this list. Thank you. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 08:40:03 +1200 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. You missed something. Jerry Hovenanian wrote: > Jeff Daly wrote: > > > Ann Dupuis had the hots for Broderick. Pass it on. > > > > I leave the list for a week and a half....and Jeff looses his marbles....or > did i miss something????...lol *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:48:08 -0000 From: "Edward Phillips" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Trying to Get off this LIST and me, it keeps coming back with weird error messages. - -----Original Message----- From: Darren Bradley To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: 27 March 1999 19:56 Subject: [MYSTARA] - Trying to Get off this LIST >I have been trying for quite a while to get off this mailing list >unsuccesfully I have used and sent the email asking to get off this list >with the appropriate syntax, yet still I am on this list. Could somebody >please take me off of this list. Thank you. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:48:56 +0200 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Heldann and the Master > Well when Venya got word than her Knights were plotting against >Thyatis...this would have upset her to no end...after all you can have one >group of your followers kill another group of your followers. So she most >likely manipulated the Knights into not trusting Hule (a difficult >task....NOT:) and at the same time made them realize that Alphatia was a bigger >threat to them. > > Anyone else come up with anything??? > Or else the Knights suddenly realized the error of their ways and turned against Hule at the urging of Thyatis. So that now Hule is secretly supporting the Northmen in their attempts to reconquer Heldann :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 02:58:49 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > > So I guess that most lawful clerics would care for the Glantrian > > population and want to save lives from diseases and the like, and > Why should the clerics trust the Glantrinians? My cleric would > fear that after fighting against the plague the Glantrinians would > put him into fire. (OTOH he is the most paranoid human on Glantri called Darokin for clerical aid, so surely DDC arranged the long-time ally and trade partner decent healings. Probably, however, the church of Darokin wanted something in return. What was it? Ideas: 1. Guaranteed security for all invited clerics and paladins. 2. Free entry for any other clerics and paladins except those from hostile countries. 3. Guarantee on that the council would accept clerics even after the plague, on special conditions. (Preaching illegal, only healing magic accepted). Darokinian church (IIRC, Asterius sided with Ring of Fire..?) has a great opportunity for blackmail here. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:02:55 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > The main point is that I have put clerics, paladins > and avengers into the Grand Council which is > not backed up by the official sources. > > Here my thoughts about that: > > Of course I know that according to DotE only "magic-users" > are allowed to become members of the Grand Council or > emperors but there was a an obvious contradiction. CM1 makes the same point, so the DoTE item isn't a stand-alone case. > I will not bore anybody with citing from DotE (and I don't have the desire > to search all those pages), but it is written in these books that there is > no prejudice against clerics and clerical magic. Nor exist a disadvantage > for clerics. There is a disadvantage for clerics, when compared with magic-users. From pg. 17 of the Alphatia book - At level 1, a magic-user is an aristocat. A cleric is gentry. Magic-users can inherit or create dominions on their own, while clerics must petition the Emporer or Empress. It is remarked that it is unusual for clerics to become kings and queens in Alphatia and Bellisaria - if they are treated the same as magic-users, this comment seems odd and improbable to say the least. pg. 21 - "Alphatians mostly aren't interested in clerical teachings" "There are not many clerics in Alphatia" - if they are as respected as magic-users, they would be as common "the magic-user is the top dog in Alphatia" "Clerics are better regarded in the colonies than in Alphatia herself" - none of the colonies are theocracies or even close, so one gets the impression from this statement that Alphatia does possess anti-clerical views I for one prefer to take the source as canon here, that the Council is composed entirely of magic-users. Clerics have it much better than many others in this land of snobbery, but they aren't on par with MUs in terms of respect granted. > The same must be true for avengers and fighters. Of course not all > Alphatians like this, but what should they do? The Empire is claiming DoTE makes no exceptions for avengers and paladins. No fighter type is able to rise above the status of gentry, and I doubt the Alphatians make an exception simply because a swordsman can detect evil. - Mischa Gelman Pittsburgh, PA There are those who believe that, if you will only legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, their propserity will leak down on those below. The Democratic idea, however, has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous, their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them -- W. J. Bryan, 1896 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 21:36:17 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements >The most experienced Thyatian wizards and clerics are of level 36, >and there are some hundreds of them! Why they have not fought >against Thothia? Even if they had quelled the Thothian plague it >would have been useful for Thyatis. Personally, what I wanna know is why the mummy-rot plague didn't just die out on its own, on the Day of Dread! Mummy-rot is a magical disease, IIRC, and it'd been introduced to those Thyatian grain-crops in the form of a magic potion. So, at the very least, the negation of all magic should have instantly nullified the contamination in Thyatis's granaries and bread supplies ... even if one day's respite wasn't long enough for already-infected victims to recover. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #150 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 151 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a w. Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] We Done Yet? I Think So. Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a . Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missingfor a . [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a w. [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Member Directory Needs a New Home RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 13:14:57 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > > Of course I know that according to DotE only "magic-users" > > are allowed to become members of the Grand Council or > > emperors but there was a an obvious contradiction. > CM1 makes the same point, so the DoTE item isn't a stand-alone case. Whaiddamoment! I say that the DotE claims that any user of magic who reaches ultimate mastery is allowed. From the Alphatian point-of-view a magic user and a magic-user are different things. > There is a disadvantage for clerics, when compared with magic-users. > >From pg. 17 of the Alphatia book - > At level 1, a magic-user is an aristocat. A cleric is gentry. Lvl 1 cleric cannot cast spells. DotE naturally forgets the paladins and avengers, but it points out that even a Halfling or Dwarf can become Aristocrats (and Lords), if they can cast spells. As well as Wiccas and Shamans. > It is remarked that it is unusual for clerics to become kings and queens > in Alphatia and Bellisaria - if they are treated the same as magic-users, > this comment seems odd and improbable to say the least. (Is this an academical debate or what?) It is unusual, but easily possible. > "Alphatians mostly aren't interested in clerical teachings" (which is weird anyway, as the religion is the easy way to aristocracy) > "There are not many clerics in Alphatia" - if they are as respected as > magic-users, they would be as common > "the magic-user is the top dog in Alphatia" > "Clerics are better regarded in the colonies than in Alphatia herself" - > none of the colonies are theocracies or even close, so one gets the > impression from this statement that Alphatia does possess anti-clerical > views (How much it took you to research and quote all that?) > DoTE makes no exceptions for avengers and paladins. No fighter type is > able to rise above the status of gentry, and I doubt the Alphatians make > an exception simply because a swordsman can detect evil. Gazes never comment on avengers and paladins, but Dwarven clerics are aristocrats as are the halfling masters. BTW, a fighter who can kill with the point'n'click finger-of-death -interface or raise dead is much more worth aristocracy than a mage who can both detect and read magic! Anyone who proves he can cast a spell is an aristocrat. A slave, an elf, a goblin -- even Darokinan Merchant Prince is aristocrat if he chooses to. Only aristocrats may become Lords, and only those aristocrats who find the ultimate mastery in their craft are allowed in Council. Cleric who can cast Wish is far more potent than a magus who can not, and Alphatians are bound to accept this. (Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a 36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he can't cast 7th level spells...) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:20:47 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Expedition to the Great Southland (Part 1) In a message dated 24/03/99 18:42:53 GMT, you write: << I'd ask that you prove from some official canon reference that Bellissaria wasn't inhabited by sentient creatures before the comming of the Alphatians, but I've decided to do you the courtesy that you refuse to do for me, and not call your writtings lies. >> Without wishing to expand this slanging-match into a three-way thing, could you both please either stop, or take it to email? I've just sat down to read a week's worth on MML posts, and I'm getting tired of "listening" to two intelligent, talented people hurling insults at each other when neither of you have any intention of giving up your opinions in favour of the other. I have limited space in my mailbox, and would rather have it filled with news about your latest interesting creations, rather than a clash of egos! Thanking you most kindly, Carl Q. (who didn't get to be until 6.30 this morning, and is a little cranky :-] ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:26:14 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a w. In a message dated 24/03/99 20:39:07 GMT, you write: << I don't like the "hollow moon" ideas, as well written as they may be. Mystara's Hollowness is IMO a nearly unique feature. To make something else hollow, especially so close only cheapens the coolness of the hollow world. >> Conversely, I think the HM setting is fascinating. Although I find the idea of a nearly-eternal night as uncomfortable as an eternal mid-day sun (that is to say, I couldn't imagine living in either) I was absolutely enthralled by every chapter in the HM saga, and can't wait for the next bit. It's beautifully written; more so than a number of "canon" supplements, IMHO. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:29:42 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] We Done Yet? I Think So. In a message dated 25/03/99 01:40:29 GMT, you write: << People, Sure it amused Jason, but regardless, the little flamefest dies here. Anyone continuing it earns my ire, and the ire of the man with the administrative password is not a good thing, as bootings tend to follow. No last words, no "I just had to add"'s, yadda yadda yadda. >> Sorry, Leroy; I hadn't got this far when I sent my own plea. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:35:28 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > I say that the DotE claims that any user of magic who reaches ultimate > mastery is allowed. From the Alphatian point-of-view a magic user and a > magic-user are different things. But DoTE does draw distinctions between clerics and magic-users. Spellcasters are treated differently from "mundanes" but there are also distinctions among spellcasters, wherein MUs are given more prominence and power. > > "Alphatians mostly aren't interested in clerical teachings" > > (which is weird anyway, as the religion is the easy way to aristocracy) A)How is it easier than training in magic? B)This simply shows the Alphatian dislike of religion and, as a result, of clerics as well. > > "There are not many clerics in Alphatia" - if they are as respected as > > magic-users, they would be as common > > "the magic-user is the top dog in Alphatia" > > "Clerics are better regarded in the colonies than in Alphatia herself" - > > none of the colonies are theocracies or even close, so one gets the > > impression from this statement that Alphatia does possess anti-clerical > > views > > (How much it took you to research and quote all that?) Well, the DoTE Alphatia book is only 32 pages, a good chunk of that being MU-specific (10 pg) and history/geography (another 10 pg). Take out names, calendar, entertainment and all that jazz and it becomes a simple task. When you have to read around 20 books for a paper on the social gospel and race, less than 12 pages of RPG material isn't a big challenge. As for the quoting, my typing speed is around 60 words per minute (possibly higher - I'm not a secretary so don't memorize such things) and such brief selections don't take long to enter. Only on days when my hands are hurting is that really a chore. All of this, of course, is way off-topic. > > DoTE makes no exceptions for avengers and paladins. No fighter type is > > able to rise above the status of gentry, and I doubt the Alphatians make > > an exception simply because a swordsman can detect evil. > > Gazes never comment on avengers and paladins I only have a few GAZes/HWRs so will cede this point to you. Also, as you point out, the comments on dwarf-clerics, masters, wiccas and shaman probably indicate that avengers and paladins would be treated similarily, but lower than clerics. > find the ultimate mastery in their craft are allowed in Council. Cleric > who can cast Wish is far more potent than a magus who can not, and > Alphatians are bound to accept this. And 36th fighters who can trash a 11th level mage are given much less respect than same mage who could barely hurt them and less respect than they should get, if Alphatia was truly based on a merit system, which it by no means is. It's a magocracy, not a meritocracy. - - Mischa Gelman Senior, School of Social Work University of Pittsburgh Writers who wouldn't dream of embarrassing themselves with a faulty calculation of atmospheric density don't even notice when their characters - - whether scientists, government leaders, or gas station attendants; men or women; young or old - all talk and act and relate with other people like smart-mouth schoolboys - Orson Scott Card, discussing some hard sci-fi writers *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 11:48:53 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a . In a message dated 26/03/99 13:37:46 GMT, you write: << . but honestly I cannot make any conjectures regarding this and the Immortal became Old Ones (which are, btw? Verthandi is one, and the other one?) >> Sinbad? Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:38:22 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >getting squashed to jelly by an iron golem. What did we know? This was >the same character that killed five Chromatic dragons by levitating them >into a wall of giant spikes. Never mind that there's only one of the >things, and forget about things like magic resistance, this was fun, and >Tiamat be damned! We didn't know any better...we were nine, for crying >out loud. Hey, I once paralyzed a dragon with a small sword of paralysis! That's a hold *person* per day! :) But you affair with Tyamat is far funnier! :)) >I know this thread died out a few days ago, but I've been out of the country. >Maybe next time I'll tell the tale of the wizard who bumped off a party >member during a discussion with the party's and DM's approval, or the >tale of the hour-long round of combat...stay tuned. An hour-long round? It once happened while running Shadowrun... but D&D?! PS: what if this thread's dead? Bungo churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:40:59 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters > My excuse as well, was out of the country and found this thread on >returning. And funnily enough i had a character that became a decidely evil >bastard during the playing of Test of the Warlords. I successfully conspired >to have one of my fellow characters executed and another banished for >treason against Ericall, even though my character was the most treasonous of >all and sided with Thyatis when the war began :) My character is pondering this issue right now! Thyatis is gonna fry us! And Eriadna is against us too, foolish barons who follow dumb Ericall! Oi oi oi. Bungo churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:44:03 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >After pawing through the PHB's "paladin" description -- IIRC, I adored the >fact that my PC could call a warhorse; being female and 12, horses were THE >thing for me just then ;-) -- and getting totally boggled by the neat list >of equipment for sale, I proceeded to get my shiny new paladin killed in >the first five minutes of play ... a speed record I've never broken (not >even in a Paranoia game). Seems my sister's PC just HAD to take a close >look at a big, grumpy fire giant on the trail up ahead; running to her >rescue as she was being beaten to a pulp, I got surrounded by the giant's >hellhounds and eaten, well-barbecued. > >My one consolation was that my sister's PC died two rounds before mine did. >Aah, youth..... :-) > I think some gaming memories are far more vivid than 'real' ones. At least if you had a very good DM, and of course if the gameworld didn't suck, as Mystara doesn't. Bungo churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:51:46 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - First characters >Were creatures would appear and harrass our party. The reason for this we >found later was an artifact dagger we had come accross on our first >adventure. Clerics had told us it was an item of great evil and essentially >didnt want anything to do with it except for giving us a protective case to >carry it in with instructions Never to remove it until we had found some >means to destroy it. The few times we did remove the dagger in a town a >returned to the area later we found the town razed to the ground by some >strange army that appeared out of nowhere. > Oh damn i have gotten started now. I better stop or i'll end up >reciting the entire 3 years of campaign :) > C'mon! This is what makes Mystara (and D&D in general) so cool! Elaborate! Please! (private mail maybe?) Bungo churlo@microstar.com.ar txurlo@hotbot.com ICQ 3435297 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:09:29 -0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Martins?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missingfor a . - -----Mensagem original----- De: CQuaif@aol.com >In a message dated 26/03/99 13:37:46 GMT, you write: > ><< . but honestly I cannot make any conjectures > regarding this and the Immortal became Old Ones (which are, btw? Verthandi > is one, and the other one?) >> > >Sinbad? > >Carl Q. Wait for the MOrient material (whenever it gets ready). There are a few things there about that. André Martins *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:24:18 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings I was down at my local public library today, and saw a few things which gave me a few ideas about the Ratlings... First, there's the phrases "City Rat", "Sea Rat", "Sewer Rat", "River Rat" and "Desert Rat". Ratlings could easily make niches for themselves in all of these terrains. Second, I saw "The Wedding of the Rat Family", in which Mr. Rat tries to find a suitable husband for his daughter. He wants the most powerful, influental son-in-law possible... so he asks the Sun. Who declines, saying Cloud is more powerful, who says Wind is, who says Wall is, who says rats are. So... I decided to have one of Mrikitat's ratlings (who starts out in Ochalea) is going to go through a similar silly story, asking Ixion, Khoronus, Korotiku, and Ka in turn. What I haven't decided is who Ka foists the parent onto... A rakasta family (who're actually only interested in lunch, not marriage)? Back to the ratlings? Thanatos, perhaps? I'm also still working out /how/ to have this poor, proud ratling go about asking these Hierarchs. Any ideas/comments/suggestions? Anybody from the MOrient project interested in having some ratlings pop up in the area? Third, and final, I saw a book all about how rats have influenced human history by spreading diseases such as the Black Death and typhus. How contagious do you think the ratlings should be? Enough to start a plague that devastates the Savage Coast? Or just enough to make enough people mad enough at them to try and exterminate the pests? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:33:43 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's beenmissing for a w. >Conversely, I think the HM setting is fascinating. Although I find the idea of >a nearly-eternal night as uncomfortable as an eternal mid-day sun (that is to >say, I couldn't imagine living in either) I was absolutely enthralled by every >chapter in the HM saga, and can't wait for the next bit. It's beautifully >written; more so than a number of "canon" supplements, IMHO. > >Carl Q. ****blush**** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:32:27 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Member Directory Needs a New Home Mystarans, Some of you may have noticed that the member directory on my home page has been languishing for some time without any sort of update. The main reason for this has been a lack of time on my part, as well as my attempt at a lifestyle change, where I spend far less time in front of the computer than I did in the past. (Sitting in front of a computer for eight hours a day at work, then coming home and doing for another six doesn't do much for one's social life or health). So, since I feel it is a worthwhile project to keep updated, I am asking if anyone out there would like to take it over for me. It involves periodically posting announcements to the list letting people know about the directory and requesting info for those that would like an entry. Submitted entries would need to be HTML'ized and added. Occasionally, people will submit updates. In other words, it's not all that hard, but the person that takes it on should be willing to stick with it and keep it much more current than I have (i.e. updated once a month). The directory could also be used for other things, such as a directory of the various project teams. So, if you have a site, or want to start one, know enough to build pages, and have an interest in seeing the MML members having a handy resource available to them, raise your hand. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:00:28 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters > >Were creatures would appear and harrass our party. The reason for this we > >found later was an artifact dagger we had come accross on our first > >adventure. Clerics had told us it was an item of great evil and > essentially > >didnt want anything to do with it except for giving us a protective case > to > >carry it in with instructions Never to remove it until we had found some > >means to destroy it. The few times we did remove the dagger in a town a > >returned to the area later we found the town razed to the ground by some > >strange army that appeared out of nowhere. > > Oh damn i have gotten started now. I better stop or i'll end up > >reciting the entire 3 years of campaign :) > > > > > C'mon! This is what makes Mystara (and D&D in general) so cool! Elaborate! > Please! (private mail maybe?) > > > Bungo > churlo@microstar.com.ar > txurlo@hotbot.com > ICQ 3435297 > > [MURPHY Jason] Well i guess if there is enuff interest i might just write up a summary of the adventures and post it to the list. I have been meaning to make up a summary of this campaign anyway, as it was one of the most enjoyable i took part in during my early gaming years. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:13:45 +0200 From: Christian Gotschi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? I was wondering if anybody has any ideas about how immortals become 'immortal'. We know that Immortals can teach you how to become immortal. We know that Radiance can make one immortal. Also Dying in a nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. And being created with the universe/whatever can make you immortal. So my questing is: what makes a mortal and immortal different (in terms of mental/physical things) Another question is: Why do you have to do one of those quests to become an immortal. I would think that it is just to ensure that you are 'worthy' of being am immortal. But in the history of Mystara, how many of these quest can you see completed? I see very few, but there are a huge number of immortals, how did they become immortals if they had to do these huge quests? I would think that anybody can become immortal with the correct training (ok you would have to be reasonably powerful if you want to do anything, 1PP = 10000xp) So how about some immortal getting some(lots) of servants/whatever by training some weak 'adventurers' as immortals. Then of course there are those immortals that only want powerful people to become immortals (most immortals would fall into this category.) But there are quite allot of 'monsters' that have PP's, are these weak immortals or not? Does anybody have a list of immortals Aleksei Andrievski is making a list of immortals, but only one at a time (Aleksei do you have a list anywhere: it ain't on your webpage) and I would like to see with this list how they attained immortality. On quest for Immortality Christian Götschi mailto:christiang@vircom.co.za Developer at Vircom http://www.vircom.co.za *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:16:34 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > > Well, lots of luck to your poor PC. As you can see the Thothians have > > a great thing going for them. And though they can't use their special > > force outside of Thothia itself, they've got that pesky undead force, > > that they can continually reinforce with casualties from both their > > own ranks as well as the enemy's. In fact if your have to retreat > > >from Thothians make sure you bring your dead or chop them up real > > bad, if you've got the time for it. And if they retreat make sure to > > get rid of the dead or the Thothians will have them fighting you in > > your next military encounter...They're REAL badasses these > > Thothians...after all they kicked Thyatis' butt several times in a > > row (according to the Almanacs)... > > > But one question remains: Why got Thyatis got kicked its ass? > > The most experienced Thyatian wizards and clerics are of level 36, > and there are some hundreds of them! Why they have not fought > against Thothia? Even if they had quelled the Thothian plague it > would have been useful for Thyatis. Sure, there are hundreds of 36th level M-U's and clerics in thyatis, but just how many of them do you think there are in the Thyatian army? And if they're not in the army what would be their interest in fighting Thothia? The few 36th-level characters I've had or DM'ed were far more interested in personal matters, not in helping out the emperor of Thyatis or what-have-you, just because he's in some kind of trouble with expanding his empire... As for quelling the plague, perhaps Thothia's clerics had an immortal or two lend a hand. Dispelling immortal magic is hard. And of course the Thothian clerics might very well count a few 36th-level characters among their ranks, and they'd have a more immediate interest in stirring up trouble for the Thyatians conquering terrain right next door. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #151 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, March 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 152 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, Part 3 Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:26:24 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for > >So what about the outer planes? As I recall it, the planes have > >varying degrees of influence from the different spheres; making time > >pass slower or faster, having matter never decay, or whatever. So are > >some of the outer planes leftovers from when there were fewer Old > >Ones, or are they implications that the 5 Old Ones have varying > >degrees of interests in different planes or what? > >You may have worked out some alignment problems, but I'm afraid that > >there's more to it than that... :) > > Actually, each set of Prime Material Plane, Inner Planes, and Outer > Planes, forms a single Multiverse, from what I recall. Thus, with each > "reboot" of the Multiverse, there's a whole new set of Outer Planes to > play with. But actually I seem to recall that immortals can create their own planes by expending a certain amount of Power Points, and these new planes would also have different amounts of influence from the spheres of power, so there would be an "expansion" of the sphere (in a small degree), and the Multiverse isn't static. > As for the different degree of each sphere influencing each plane... > sure, maybe it's a degree of each Old One's interest, or maybe they're > working together "out of time" to try and form a Multiverse with the > greatest possible chance of creating the next Old One... But the next Old One already has been created, or never will be, or, urm...gee... :) > Hm... that brings up a curious question - if my initial idea is vaguely > correct, what happens to the Multiverse when the next Old One arises? We > would have six "spheres"... perhaps the basic AD&D arrangement of > earth/air/fire/water/positive/negative inner planes would work best as a > template? Well, I wonder what it would take to actually create a new Old One? I recall the Immortal rules saying something like attaining Full Hierarch level as an immortal twice, then the blackballs would come for you...but this sounds like pretty far fetched nonsense to me. I think it would take more of a personal enlightenment thing, understanding fully how the Multiverse works and seeing all things in relation to each other. I'd say that you'd have to attain Full Hierarch status in each sphere before you could attain that kind of enlightenment. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:31:31 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > > "In recent years, clerics have been welcomed for the healing benefits > > they confer - the plague nearly devastated Glantri - but smart > > clerics will be demure of manner and quiet of proselytizing. While it > > is no longer a crime to be a cleric in the Principalities, it IS a > > crime to preach religious beliefs." > > > > So I guess that most lawful clerics would care for the Glantrian > > population and want to save lives from diseases and the like, and > > they'd just have to accept that they should lay low and find > > believers by helping out and accepting those that want to convert in > > gratitude. > > > I've never understood this - really! > > It would be like Hitler had stopped his campaign against Jews > because he would have needed them. Would they have trusted > him? Probably not! But these clerics are able to heal the common people who have been afflicted with the plague. As much as they fear for themselves, being lawful they have an obligation to help out where they're able to help, and really, should the Glantrian aristocracy put them to the stake, the general populace would certainly be mighty pissed off at seeing their saviors treated like that! > Why should the clerics trust the Glantrinians? My cleric would > fear that after fighting against the plague the Glantrinians would > put him into fire. (OTOH he is the most paranoid human on > Mystara of course.) So your cleric wouldn't feel obligated to helping others, and I'm sure he/she isn't lawful... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:36:13 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > >The most experienced Thyatian wizards and clerics are of level 36, > >and there are some hundreds of them! Why they have not fought > >against Thothia? Even if they had quelled the Thothian plague it > >would have been useful for Thyatis. > > > Personally, what I wanna know is why the mummy-rot plague didn't just die > out on its own, on the Day of Dread! Mummy-rot is a magical disease, IIRC, > and it'd been introduced to those Thyatian grain-crops in the form of a > magic potion. So, at the very least, the negation of all magic should have > instantly nullified the contamination in Thyatis's granaries and bread > supplies ... even if one day's respite wasn't long enough for > already-infected victims to recover. So maybe the instigation of the plague was of a magical nature, but the plague itself might have been very natural. And what if other diseases followed the plague, seeing how people's immune system would be deficient (I know this isn't AIDS, but when you're exhausted or sick you're more prone to "catch" diseases, right?) they might have been infected with other diseases, or "the real thing". And of course the immortals could have had a hand in the whole affair, or the Thothians could have used an artifact... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 03:42:45 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics >From: "Jacob Skytte" >> It would be like Hitler had stopped his campaign against Jews >> because he would have needed them. Would they have trusted >> him? Probably not! >But these clerics are able to heal the common people who have been >afflicted with the plague. As much as they fear for themselves, being >lawful they have an obligation to help out where they're able to >help, and really, should the Glantrian aristocracy put them to the >stake, the general populace would certainly be mighty pissed off at >seeing their saviors treated like that! We're not speacking of peaples but of peaple ... There're differences ! No peaples will share the same spirit of lawfullness than a single (and chosen) man . >> Why should the clerics trust the Glantrinians? My cleric would >> fear that after fighting against the plague the Glantrinians would >> put him into fire. (OTOH he is the most paranoid human on >> Mystara of course.) >So your cleric wouldn't feel obligated to helping others, and I'm >sure he/she isn't lawful... It's a matter of faith : those who have a true faith won't fear for themselves but for other. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 13:54:59 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? > I was wondering if anybody has any ideas about how immortals become > 'immortal'. > > We know that Immortals can teach you how to become immortal. > We know that Radiance can make one immortal. > Also Dying in a nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. > And being created with the universe/whatever can make you immortal. > > So my questing is: what makes a mortal and immortal different (in terms of > mental/physical things) I see it as a matter of enlightenment. I used to play the RPG Nephilim in which your character strives to become a perfect being, by mastering a certain number of skills and thus attaining enlightenment. You might wanna check it out. What I think is weird is that the radiance or nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. This would imply that immortality is not a question of state of mind but rather state of being. You might say that becoming immortal is a matter of subjecting your mortal body to large amount of radiation (as in emitted energy) thus transforming your whole being into a different one capable of existing in four dimensions instead of three. And this whole four-dimensional existance might be what it takes to obtain Power Points and the abilities associated with immortals. This will definitely not be how it works IMC, as I vote for intellectual/spiritual enlightenment, but it might work for others. > Another question is: Why do you have to do one of those quests to become an > immortal. > I would think that it is just to ensure that you are 'worthy' of being am > immortal. > But in the history of Mystara, how many of these quest can you see > completed? > I see very few, but there are a huge number of immortals, how did they > become immortals if they had to do these huge quests? Yeah, well, what if only other immortals have the necessary power to infuse you with the radiation needed to attain "the immortal state of being". In order to convince one of them to spend the PP's necessary to radiate you, you'd have to do them a number of services, so they wouldn't think it was a waste of energy. These services have for some reason been standardized by some Hierarchs to ensure that the new immortals are "worthy" of hanging out with the whole immortal gang. Naturally some immortals don't always play by rules and cheat a bit here and there, thus some characters bypass all or most of these quests and still attain immortality. The sponsoring immortal might have to answer to it's ruling Hierarch, but it could also have covered it's tracks fairly well. > So how about some immortal getting some(lots) of servants/whatever by > training some weak 'adventurers' > as immortals. Well, the problem is that once the servant figures out that it's power rivals that of it's master, it might soon decide that it can easily break free from the servant/master relationship and become it's own master, striving for it's own goals...This is usually what happens after novices have served their sponsors for a while. > But there are quite allot of 'monsters' that have PP's, are these weak > immortals or not? According to my theory at the start of this reply these "monsters" would be other four-dimensional beings, and as such could be seen as immortal. And if they bear children or whatever you might state that such an event would be the cause of a large amount of "the immortality radiation" and if a character were to be present during such an event, he might attain immortality! This could also introduce "freak" immortal monsters that are mortal three-dimensional beings without Power Points due to some accident during their birth that removed them prematurely from "the immortality radiation". As I stated earlier I don't subscribe to this view, but it could be developed to be a viable alternative to the currently rather vague rulings. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 14:00:08 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > >> It would be like Hitler had stopped his campaign against Jews > >> because he would have needed them. Would they have trusted > >> him? Probably not! > >But these clerics are able to heal the common people who have been > >afflicted with the plague. As much as they fear for themselves, being > >lawful they have an obligation to help out where they're able to > >help, and really, should the Glantrian aristocracy put them to the > >stake, the general populace would certainly be mighty pissed off at > >seeing their saviors treated like that! > > We're not speacking of peaples but of peaple ... There're differences ! > No peaples will share the same spirit of lawfullness than a single (and > chosen) man . I'm sorry, I dont understand what you're saying here. > It's a matter of faith : those who have a true faith won't fear for > themselves but for other. Exactly, if it's a lawful (or good in AD&D terms) faith. Chaotic (or evil) clerics might very well fear for themselves, as they no doubt should, were people to find out your cleric was worshipping Alphaks, they might very well do nasty things to you... :) But then I guess you wouldn't be in Glantri trying to help others, right??? Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:09:52 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics >> We're not speacking of peaples but of peaple ... There're differences ! >> No peaples will share the same spirit of lawfullness than a single (and >> chosen) man . > >I'm sorry, I dont understand what you're saying here. You can't ask to thousand of peaple to react as one, if this one is as lawfull as a cleric ... (Aïe my words miss :o\) >> It's a matter of faith : those who have a true faith won't fear for >> themselves but for other. > >Exactly, if it's a lawful (or good in AD&D terms) faith. Chaotic (or >evil) clerics might very well fear for themselves, as they no doubt >should, were people to find out your cleric was worshipping Alphaks, >they might very well do nasty things to you... :) But then I guess >you wouldn't be in Glantri trying to help others, right??? Well ... it's a good explanation of my thought ... Are you French/English translator ? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:02:32 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics >>> We're not speacking of peaples but of peaple ... There're differences ! >>> No peaples will share the same spirit of lawfullness than a single (and >>> chosen) man . >>I'm sorry, I dont understand what you're saying here. > You can't ask to thousand of peaple to react as one, if this one is as > lawfull as a cleric ... (Aie my words miss :o\) So, you're saying that a single lawful cleric will do what he can to help others while a lawful nation will not act to help as a whole ??? If you are then I agree with you. >>> It's a matter of faith : those who have a true faith won't fear for >>> themselves but for other. >>Exactly, if it's a lawful (or good in AD&D terms) faith. Chaotic (or >>evil) clerics might very well fear for themselves, as they no doubt >>should, were people to find out your cleric was worshipping Alphaks, >>they might very well do nasty things to you... :) But then I guess >>you wouldn't be in Glantri trying to help others, right??? > Well ... it's a good explanation of my thought ... Are you > French/English translator ? Um, no. Actually I'm danish. But I've been reading english literature since I was 13 or so. And there's no french in any of your posts, so what's that about ?!? Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:29:28 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Christian Gotschi wrote: > I was wondering if anybody has any ideas about how immortals become > 'immortal'. > > We know that Immortals can teach you how to become immortal. > We know that Radiance can make one immortal. > Also Dying in a nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. > And being created with the universe/whatever can make you immortal. > > So my questing is: what makes a mortal and immortal different (in terms of > mental/physical things) > > > Another question is: Why do you have to do one of those quests to become an > immortal. > I would think that it is just to ensure that you are 'worthy' of being am > immortal. I agree, but I also think that you have to complete those quests in order to gain your first worshipper base and also the raw power (experience) needed to become immortal. > But in the history of Mystara, how many of these quest can you see > completed? > I see very few, but there are a huge number of immortals, how did they > become immortals if they had to do these huge quests? > Almost every nation in the world has one or more patron immortals, who reached their status by founding that nation (for example Halav Petra and Zirchev for Traladara, Alphatia, Al Kalim, Ilsundal...) Others just followed the path traced by ancient immortals (Mealiden, for example, and most temporal/celestial immortals) > I would think that anybody can become immortal with the correct training > (ok you would have to be reasonably powerful if you want to do anything, 1PP > = 10000xp) > So how about some immortal getting some(lots) of servants/whatever by > training some weak 'adventurers' > as immortals. > > Then of course there are those immortals that only want powerful people to > become immortals > (most immortals would fall into this category.) > But there are quite allot of 'monsters' that have PP's, are these weak > immortals or not? > > Does anybody have a list of immortals There should be one at Shawn's site at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 > Aleksei Andrievski is making a list of immortals, but only one at a time > (Aleksei do you have a list anywhere: it ain't on your webpage) > and I would like to see with this list how they attained immortality. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 15:38:25 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions Here are a few questions on Glantrian subjects: 1)Radiance users should be all nobles (with domains). So how could Angus McGregor join? 2)Brotherhood of Rad members should not know each other identities, but, since the number of glantrian nobles is limited and it seems from the dialogue in Gaz 2 that they can notice accents in the others' voices, it should not be too difficult for them to devise who the other members are (after all, they are highly intelligent mages). 3)In my copy of the Gaz (Italian translation) Prince Innocenti di Malapietra is listed as 17th level, but he is a Grand Master (min level 20). Which is his true level? Thanks in advance for your answers, Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:18:37 EST From: RISPEN@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More on the Master <> I seem to remember the Immortal box set stating something along the lines of to become an Old one an Immortal would have to rise to the top rank of each sphere of influence. This would allow him to have a new perspective. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:43:13 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics On Sat, 27 Mar 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > The same must be true for avengers and fighters. Of course not all > Alphatians like this, but what should they do? The Empire is claiming > since its founding that every Alphatian with the ability to cast spells > is a noble and can (theoretically) reach all positions. Let's imagine > a paladin at a Alphatian court demanding the status of a noble. What > kind of judgement the judge would make? IMC Avengers, Paladins and all other spellcasters are considered part of the aristocracy. However, Paladins and Avengers (assuming they fill the requirements to cast spells, Wis 13?) can never acquire the spellpower of a 36th level Cleric or Magic-user and are thus unable to be a part of the grand council. IMC Clerics can be and are part of the Council. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:25:25 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Christian Gotschi wrote: > Also Dying in a nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. Not just ANY nuclear meltdown. Rafiel was caught at the dead center of the hyperfusion blast that rocked a whole planet. > So my questing is: what makes a mortal and immortal different (in terms of > mental/physical things) Immortals are 4 dimensional beings of immense "godlike" power. If you're Christian, think of "god" That's how most mortals view Immortals. > Another question is: Why do you have to do one of those quests to become an > immortal. It's in the rules :) But seriously, the ranks of the Immortals are designed for those worth enough to wield the power and responsibility. Immortals don't want idiots or Losers to attain Immortality, so they designed these tests. > I see very few, but there are a huge number of immortals, how did they > become immortals if they had to do these huge quests? Not all Quests are recorded in history. Sometimes things happen that noone notices. > I would think that anybody can become immortal with the correct training > (ok you would have to be reasonably powerful if you want to do anything, 1PP > = 10000xp) Nonononononononono!! Immortality is a MAJOR gift. You are elevating someone to a _GOD_. Someone like Elminster could be Immortal. Joe Schmoe from Darokin couldn't. > So how about some immortal getting some(lots) of servants/whatever by > training some weak 'adventurers' > as immortals. That's why they developed Titans. Titans are only exalted. Immortals are a fussy bunch. Status Quo. And I'm sure Hierarchs would NOT want to use the Altar of Diminishing on all those poorly chosen Mortals. > Then of course there are those immortals that only want powerful people to > become immortals > (most immortals would fall into this category.) correction: ALL immortals fall into this category. > But there are quite allot of 'monsters' that have PP's, are these weak > immortals or not? These creatures are exalted/immortal level creatures. They are not "immortals" but can wield similar powers. > Does anybody have a list of immortals Look in WoTI, or the Gold Box. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:28:27 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Jacob Skytte wrote: > But the next Old One already has been created, or never will be, or, > urm...gee... :) I dunno. Atruaghin being another Old one seems unlikely. He was never a full hierarch. He will never make Full hierarch again. Thus the Blackballs will never come to claim his soul.. Sorry Almanac people. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 16:01:50 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics At 11:35 AM 3/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >> > "Alphatians mostly aren't interested in clerical teachings" >> >> (which is weird anyway, as the religion is the easy way to aristocracy) > >A)How is it easier than training in magic? Well it seems to me, if the innate ability to cast magic spells, cleric spells may be the way to go. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:27:01 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, Part 3 PART 3 Entry 6 How stupid of mineself! Tis been a long day, that started a few hours after we'd camped last night. With the fire being tended and kept low by Gervus, the rest of us had lain down for some rest. At some point later, we were all awakened by Gervus' shrill scream. Boulders the size of wagon wheels rained down on us from the cliffs far above. We scattered to avoid being too near the fire, but Targus was a might too slow and was critically wounded, his left arm and leg crushed when one landed on him. Against her better judgement, Anna cast an earthquake and nearly killed us all when the cliffside came tumbling down, with the giants. Methinks we were wounded more from the shaking and falling rock than the enemy. They fell a great distance but appeared to be more angered than injured. With them in sight now Uldas and myself cast spells. Uldas threw a fireball wilst I cast an elemental blast. This seemed to work better than dropping them on their heads. Gervus used his sling (amusing to watch I assure you) wilst Anna tended to Targus. A few more spells followed from Uldas and mineself at the giants until they fled. At first I had thought they were hill giants, but Targus revealed that they were more deadly than that; they were mountain giants. No wonder the fall didn't kill them. Our choice of campsites was poor indeed! The terrain prevented most ground creatures from easily accessing our sleeping forms, but attacks from above actually redirected falling objects into the camp, like an alchemists funnel. No more sleep found us this night, or there could be more of the giants above and the quake caused by Anna probably attracted every beastie within 5 miles. We let her know the importance of thinking before acting. I stopped Targus short of calling her actions unwise...something tells me that questioning her wisdom would start something that I would not want mine companions to finish. Just before dawn Gervus scouted the pass. Upon his return we learnt of a hastily erected barricade of rock with hill giant and ogres hiding behind it farther in the pass. We hit it at dawn with everything we had. In quick succession I cast thunderlance and thunderclap spells whilst Uldras threw blackbolt spells. Targus catapulted himself with his magical ballistic ring. Interesting effect, this ring. It has the ability to fire any object no larger than a 5' cube that it is touched to in any direction the wearer desires. I hadn't known that the wearer could do this to himself! Targus flew high and wide over the barricade, smashing hard into a hill giant. Twas a strange sight to see indeed! A flying dwarf with an audience of giants and giant-kin just staring up into the sky, following his trajectory. Between the spells and Targus' high flying tactics the barricade was overcome relatively easily as far as fighting entrenched giants goes. Within an hour after dawn we arrived at Verath's Tower. The tower itself was dilapidated and partially tumbled and boulders made of uncarved stone littered the box canyon. Expecting attack from above, we spotted a cave opening a full 1,000 feet above the tower. Using the cover of the littered landscape we made the tower with no attack. After exploring the tower all day, nothing but a strange door and a secret passage up have been found. The strange door has glyphs over its surface and feels extremely hot to the touch. We decided to take our chances with the secret door. Arminath Wynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:07:34 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics >>> > "Alphatians mostly aren't interested in clerical teachings" >>> >>> (which is weird anyway, as the religion is the easy way to aristocracy) >> >>A)How is it easier than training in magic? > >Well it seems to me, if the innate ability to cast magic spells, cleric >spells may be the way to go. My view on this is that, while many Alphatian commoners might WANT to be clerics, the Immortals can tell if a person is genuinely faithful -- i.e. is aspiring to clericy out of love and reverence for their patron -- or is just trying to become a noble. Even Entropics aren't going to invest a bunch of nobodies with their power, if all they're in it for is the chance to become aristocrats ... NOT to serve the Immortal patron's interests. Becoming a cleric demands sincere faith, and there's no faith involved in whining: "Hey, God: Gimme spells, I wanna be an aristocrat!" In fact, the failure of priesthoods to admit all-and-sundry might be why the commoners of Alphatia think so little of religion; they might think the Immortals have shut them out of the aristocracy, for no reason. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:13:40 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB After hearing both Jenn and Carl tell me they like the Hollow Moon, so much (YEEE-HAW!), I finally got back to the grindstone, and finished another HM post on the MMB. It's about the Ur-Carnifex, the savage ancestors of the infamous M3 "long pork"-lovers: check it out! 8-) ***staggers off to hit the sack after typing HM malarky all night*** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #152 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, March 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 153 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters RE: [MYSTARA] - Out of the shadows [MYSTARA] - =?iso-8859-1?Q?The_reason_I_don=27t_do_clerical_spells_?= [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? RE: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 21:06:31 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions >1)Radiance users should be all nobles (with domains). So how could Angus >McGregor join? > Maybe Etienne let him in as a little joke on Brannart (heh heh, Brannart's own grandson is using the Radiance, and poor Brannart doesn't even know it). >2)Brotherhood of Rad members should not know each other identities, but, >since the number of glantrian nobles is limited and it seems from the >dialogue in Gaz 2 that they can notice accents in the others' voices, it >should not be too difficult for them to devise who the other members are >(after all, they are highly intelligent mages). > This is a valid question. I myself have wondered why couldn't they just conclude that Etienne and Rad are one and the same since they disappeared at the same time (the same with "Brother Nightfire" and Vanserie Vlaardoen, etc). >3)In my copy of the Gaz (Italian translation) Prince Innocenti di >Malapietra is listed as 17th level, but he is a Grand Master (min level >20). Which is his true level? > I think he should be 20th level, the 17th level was a mistake. Bruce prolly made him 17th level first, then developed the secret crafts rules and forgot to change his level to reflect those. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:19:26 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? >> I was wondering if anybody has any ideas about how immortals become >> 'immortal'. >> >> We know that Immortals can teach you how to become immortal. >> We know that Radiance can make one immortal. >> Also Dying in a nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. >> And being created with the universe/whatever can make you immortal. >> >> So my questing is: what makes a mortal and immortal different (in terms of >> mental/physical things) > >I see it as a matter of enlightenment. I used to play the RPG >Nephilim in which your character strives to become a perfect being, >by mastering a certain number of skills and thus attaining >enlightenment. You might wanna check it out. What I think is weird is >that the radiance or nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. This >would imply that immortality is not a question of state of mind but >rather state of being. You might say that becoming immortal is a >matter of subjecting your mortal body to large amount of radiation >(as in emitted energy) thus transforming your whole being into a >different one capable of existing in four dimensions instead of >three. And this whole four-dimensional existance might be what it >takes to obtain Power Points and the abilities associated with >immortals. This will definitely not be how it works IMC, as I vote >for intellectual/spiritual enlightenment, but it might work for >others. To be honest, I don't think of Immortals as the equivalent of "gods" in the classical sense -- i.e. the "I-created-the-universe", never-wrong-about-anything sense -- so much as beings like that naked blue guy, from the old "Watchmen" graphic novel! They're more like superheroes, than deities: sure, they can perform incredible deeds and wield phenomenal power ... but they still have to roll up their sleeves and DO those things themselves, getting their hands dirty and exerting their resources; they can't just "will" something into happening with impunity, the way an omnipotent God/Yahweh/Allah/Whatever presumably can. This jives much better with the existence of the "Radiation-Immortals" -- in fact, Rafiel's means of ascension was probably taken straight out of "Watchmen", by Gaz13's authors -- and with the overall lack of good judgement or serenity amongst the Immortals we've seen in action, than assuming Immortal status has anything to do with "enlightenment". Immortals certainly have more INFORMATION, about the way the multiverse works, than mortals do ... but that's a far cry from actually being WISE about it. While the paths of Immortality do put a person through some initial tests of faith, commitment, wisdom, and so on, I see this as more of an attempt by the already-instated Immortals to "weed out" the natural-born losers (like neurotic ol' Rafiel, the only 0-level "nobody" ever to attain Immortality!), hubris-driven fools (like Alphaks, the worst walking advertisement Entropy's ever had :-P), and other unreliable "wannabees", who would've abused their Immortal powers unduly. Of the five Spheres, only Time really seems to try to TEACH its recruits a clear moral/ethical lesson, in the process of testing their worthiness for Immortality; for the other four, it's enough that the supplicant can check off each of the requirements, with little or no concern for whether he or she is learning anything, in the process. That's why I like to think that the Old Ones really ARE beings who've attained enlightenment, and exist on a higher plane of consciousness that's above all the pettiness of the mortal (and Immortal) world: there sure isn't much of that sort of thing, at the Immortals' level; and I'd like to think there's not a whole other tier or two (or six, or a hundred...) before we find somebody who actually knows what he/she/it ought to be doing, with all that power. Ironically, by this point of view, a very enlightened mortal, who's attained a perfect state of oneness with the multiverse's cosmic harmonies - -- Mystara's Buddha or Christ, perhaps -- might manage to become an Old One, WITHOUT having to reach Immortality in the interim! Indeed, given how bogged down the Immortals get in their petty politics and hobnobbing/fighting/competing with one another, Immortality might actually be a dead end (!), on the TRUE Path to enlightenment and ascension as an Old One: a false trail, set up by those who've followed the true course, to detour anyone shallow or materialistic enough to think "cosmic harmony" can be found by trouncing monsters and looting treasure vaults (;-D), from actually approaching their goal. A bit like what happened to that evil Time Lord in "The Five Doctors", who'd thought he'd earned the immortality Rassilon promised, but got turned into a statue for his troubles. (Rassilon, of course, knew nobody ambitious enough to complete the various tasks he'd set, could ever be trusted with immortality. :-D) The Paths of Immortality could be the same sort of decoy, for the overly ambitious ... just a lot more subtle than petrification. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 17:48:28 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions >>1)Radiance users should be all nobles (with domains). So how could Angus >>McGregor join? >> >Maybe Etienne let him in as a little joke on Brannart (heh heh, Brannart's >own grandson is using the Radiance, and poor Brannart doesn't even know it). That'd be my bet, too. (That d'Ambreville humor crops up in the oddest places.... ;-D) Plus, technically Prince Brannart isn't eligable to be a noble, in the traditional sense -- being dead kinda disqualifies you from holding a title, even though the Prince of Klantyre's lichdom is a secret ;-) -- so his heir might also be considered an "honorary" prince. And Angus is the one relative Brannart likes enough to bequeath his principality to, were he still a mortal man who'd need to plan for such an eventuality. >>2)Brotherhood of Rad members should not know each other identities, but, >>since the number of glantrian nobles is limited and it seems from the >>dialogue in Gaz 2 that they can notice accents in the others' voices, it >>should not be too difficult for them to devise who the other members are >>(after all, they are highly intelligent mages). Maybe Etienne assured them that the crystals "masked" their voices -- a reasonable precaution -- but he didn't actually incorporate the masking-effect into them. That's another "joke", that'd be very much in keeping with the old X2 module: Angus could chatter away, confident that none of the other Brothers are hearing his actual voice, while the listeners are marveling at how their crystals make him sound sooooo much like a little kid.... :-D >This is a valid question. I myself have wondered why couldn't they just >conclude that Etienne and Rad are one and the same since they disappeared at >the same time (the same with "Brother Nightfire" and Vanserie Vlaardoen, >etc). Remember that the Brotherhood only "meets" through its crystals four times each year. So they wouldn't necessarily know if the disappearances were simultaneous, or if some of the Brothers might have changed their aliases for security reasons, after the war. >>3)In my copy of the Gaz (Italian translation) Prince Innocenti di >>Malapietra is listed as 17th level, but he is a Grand Master (min level >>20). Which is his true level? >> >I think he should be 20th level, the 17th level was a mistake. Bruce prolly >made him 17th level first, then developed the secret crafts rules and forgot >to change his level to reflect those. Maybe he attained High Mastery at 20th level, then lost a few levels to an undead creature. (A difference of opinion with Morphail, perhaps...? ;-D) The rules never say whether or not you'd lose your 5th Circle status if you dropped below level 20, AFAIK. Normally, a High Master who lost levels would probably be deposed, since he or she would get creamed by the first 20th-level challenger who came along ... but if Innocenti'd run his Secret Craft anything like he did, his principality, there might not have BEEN any 4th Circle earth elementalists who were strong enough to best him: they all died horribly, after a cordial visit to the di Malapietra banquet hall. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 19:15:20 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > (Rassilon, of course, knew nobody ambitious enough to complete the various > tasks he'd set, could ever be trusted with immortality. :-D) The Paths of > Immortality could be the same sort of decoy, for the overly ambitious ... > just a lot more subtle than petrification. That was a great line of reasoning, Sharon. I must say I'm very impressed. Did you major in Philosophy or something like it? It would be unfortunate, however, to have characters completely circumventing the Immortal level...I guess most characters aren't inclined to lead a life of meditation and reflection on the wisdom of the universe, though. It might prove interesting for people running an Immortals campaign to have a route to retirement in mastery of all five spheres as well as Taoist-styled meditation and wisdom overlooking their actions. Very interesting indeed... - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:13:07 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? >On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >> (Rassilon, of course, knew nobody ambitious enough to complete the various >> tasks he'd set, could ever be trusted with immortality. :-D) The Paths of >> Immortality could be the same sort of decoy, for the overly ambitious ... >> just a lot more subtle than petrification. > >That was a great line of reasoning, Sharon. I must say I'm very >impressed. Did you major in Philosophy or something like it? No, but I obviously watched much too much Dr. Who....! ;-) Glad you like the idea, though! The whole premise that the secrets of the universe, eternal life, and so on should be reserved for those who can hack-n-slash their way to 36th level might be a convenient premise for an RPG -- let's face it: once you cut through the hype, questing for Immortality was simply a way you could "win" the D&D game -- but it's NOT a very satisfying or fair world-view, when you actually think about it. >It would be unfortunate, however, to have characters completely >circumventing the Immortal level...I guess most characters aren't >inclined to lead a life of meditation and reflection on the wisdom of the >universe, though. It might prove interesting for people running an >Immortals campaign to have a route to retirement in mastery of all five >spheres as well as Taoist-styled meditation and wisdom overlooking their >actions. Very interesting indeed... Here's a thought: now that the four Paths aren't limited to the four core character-classes, but can be pursued by just about anyone, might it be possible for people who AREN'T adventurers, at all (!), to follow a Path successfully? For example, could the greatest chess-player on Mystara complete the Path of the Paragon, by commissioning an unique magical chess set with animated pieces, transforming a region's appearance by mundane methods, and then (here's the sneaky part) deftly "defeating" several powerful wizards AT CHESS...? I know it sounds silly ... but when you look at folklore -- the same folklore which inspired the concept of Immortalized heroes, in the first place -- it's not JUST monster-slayers or tricksters or wise founders of nations, who get memorialized in myth: there's plenty of crafts- or skill-oriented "Immortals" in old stories, too. It's where characters like John Henry and Paul Bunyan (to use some recent examples) fit into legend. In fact, the Immortal Wayland was probably based on the folkloric Wayland Smith ... a fellow who certainly never slew dragons or forged empires, yet who was "legendary" in his blacksmithing skills. Immortals of this sort might never become as prestigious as former heroes and super-wizards, but they'd be there in the background, both as patrons for their respective vocations, and as a calm, sober layman's voice-of-reason that might help keep Pandius's hot-heads in check. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:27:29 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters Please share "your" adventures with us! Three years of campaign should be quite enough to keep us busy for a while. Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au [SMTP:jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 1999 4:00 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - First characters > > > > > > > > >Were creatures would appear and harrass our party. The reason for this > we > > >found later was an artifact dagger we had come accross on our first > > >adventure. Clerics had told us it was an item of great evil and > > essentially > > >didnt want anything to do with it except for giving us a protective > case > > to > > >carry it in with instructions Never to remove it until we had found > some > > >means to destroy it. The few times we did remove the dagger in a town a > > >returned to the area later we found the town razed to the ground by > some > > >strange army that appeared out of nowhere. > > > Oh damn i have gotten started now. I better stop or i'll end up > > >reciting the entire 3 years of campaign :) > > > > > > > > > C'mon! This is what makes Mystara (and D&D in general) so cool! > Elaborate! > > Please! (private mail maybe?) > > > > > > Bungo > > churlo@microstar.com.ar > > txurlo@hotbot.com > > ICQ 3435297 > > > > > [MURPHY Jason] > Well i guess if there is enuff interest i might just write up a > summary of the adventures and post it to the list. I have been meaning to > make up a summary of this campaign anyway, as it was one of the most > enjoyable i took part in during my early gaming years. > > > Jason Murphy > Software Engineer > MITS Limited > EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > PHONE: 08 9481 4066 > FAX: 08 9481 4064 > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:12:33 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Out of the shadows >Thus, we have the major properties of >shadows -- they're neither wholly >incorporeal nor truly gaseous, >but a bit of both; they drain Strength by >touch; they're immune to mundane weapons; >their bodies absorb light (hence, >they look "shadowy"), yet they avoid >Continual Light spells (magical light >does them no good) and the sun (ditto); >they're alive, yet share many >similarities with the bodiless undead -- >all laid out ... or at least, all >the ones I could think of! ;-D I like this more than the AD&D Description! Good job. >Bruce later suggested that the victims of >shadows become shadows, because a >shadow has to disjoin their Energy-component >in the process of feeding upon >them. If this proves fatal, the victim's Entropic >tether breaks, and they >assume the same state as the shadow which killed them. I was just wondering where new shadows came from, but you answered my question before I could even ask it :-) Kristian Kramer > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Dornhoff [SMTP:dornhoff@bio.umass.edu] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 1999 8:27 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Out of the shadows > > Hey, folks! Someone voiced an interest in a post I'd previously made, on > the MMB, about the (non-undead) oD&D shadow and how it might relate to > Mystara's five Spheres. Here's the original MMB-post, for your viewing > pleasure: > > > Bringing Shadows Into The Light > > I've been giving some thought to the recent discussion about the Mystaran > shadow -- the monster, not the thing you're standing in when Ixion's > shining on the other side of the rock! ;-) -- and I came up with an idea > for what might be going on with them. (This is assuming that shadows > AREN'T > undead, as in the AD&D rules, but weird living creatures as oD&D portrays > them.) Please, tell me whether you think this makes sense, people: > > > From Bruce's long-ago article on Limbo (the Mystaran Purgatory, kind of), > we learned that Mystarans have five components which correspond to the > five > Spheres: Matter, Time, Thought, Energy, and Entropy. Matter makes up the > physical body, while Time sets the actual duration of life and guides the > body's maturation. Thought and Energy make up the soul, which is made > sentient by the former and kept in existence by the latter. The Entropic > component binds soul to body, wears away as the person ages, and is eroded > entirely when natural death occurs. If someone dies prematurely, any > "leftover" Entropy passes into the world, which is part of the reason > Entropy is so gung-ho about death.* > > [* - Bruce told us all this; what follows is my own guesswork, based on > his > ideas.] > > When someone becomes undead, presumably it's the Entropic part that is > doing the damage/inducing the change. If they become something corporeal, > this component binds the soul into the carcass even after Time has > dictated > the body should die, and Matter has ceased to maintain it (i.e. it rots). > If they become incorporeal, it links them up to the larger forces of > Entropy, keeping the soul in the Physical Plane and granting it whatever > powers its undead-type has. In non-sentient undead*, the Thought component > of the soul might also be damaged; in energy-draining forms, the Energy > component is entirely displaced, and its role is usurped by the Entropic > one. > > [* - I'm thinking of creatures other than skeletons and zombies, here. > Those don't have souls in them; they're just bones or meat under > necromantic control.] > > But suppose shadows aren't a result of the Entropic component's > alteration? > What if, in a Mystaran (i.e. oD&D-style) shadow, the soul's Energy > component is the one that's altered, in a way that causes it to absorb > light -- hence, their appearance -- and drain vigor -- not levels, i.e. > lifeforce, but Strength -- on contact with "normal" living beings? The > physical body (Matter plus Time components) gets left behind, making the > shadow incorporeal, but the soul never actually "dies", any more than a > mage whose body is slain while Magic Jarred into another will be "dead". > > Think of it like this. Maybe, in the far-distant past*, a cabal of wizards > and clergy tried to achieve earthly immortality -- not an ascension to > Pandius; just an indefinite lifespan where they'd never grow old -- by > disjoining the Time components of their own bodies from the Matter > components. In theory, they thought this would spare them from Time's > rigors and eventual death, because their Matter components -- i.e. their > flesh -- wouldn't get any "instructions" from the Time-components about > when to grow old or die. This wasn't a complete severence -- they feared > that would leave them with no sense of time's passage at all -- but it DID > block Time from giving any "input" to their bodies' Matter. > > [* - There were shadows in Blackmoor modules, IIRC, so they must have been > around a looooong time.] > > Unfortunately, they'd failed to consider whether the disjunction-magics > they used would affect their souls, also. When the cabal actually invoked > their ritual of "earthly immortality", the two components of their > physical > bodies disjoined ... but so did the two components of their souls, Thought > and Energy! Just as Time had been cut off from communication with Matter, > so Energy was cut off from communication with Thought. Their sentient > "selves" -- the Thought portions of their souls -- lost touch with their > spiritual source of sustenance/vitality -- the Energy portions -- and > immediately started to grow weaker, due to their contact with the Entropy > component (normally, the Energy component's energies would have > compensated > for this drain/erosion). Desperate to escape being drained, each > cabal-member's "self" -- technically only HALF a soul -- ripped free of > its > Entropy component, also severing the link to its physical body. > > What was left from all this -- the sentient portion of a soul -- is what > Mystarans today call a "shadow". The Thought portion of the soul remains > battered yet largely unchanged, such that the creature is self-aware and > capable of cunning. As this is the strongest remaining portion of the > erstwhile person, the shadow manifests itself in a semi-gaseous form > (since > Air is related to Thought). Its new "body" is mutable and can lie flat > like > a real shadow; it can slip through small spaces with ease. Because it's > basically a disembodied soul -- or at least 50% of a soul -- a shadow is > immune to normal weapons, like many undead which share this same makeup. > > The original, material body -- which wasn't really "killed", but got left > behind when the half-soul broke its Entropic tether -- immediately falls > into a coma and dies of thirst/starvation. So much for the Matter > component > of the newborn shadow. The Time component really DID get disjoined, then > abandoned along with the flesh: for what it's worth, shadows are unaging > and do not suffer natural deaths. They ARE alive, and not undead, because > Entropy plays no part in their existence, beyond the Entropic component's > having driven the half-soul from its body in the first place. > > It's the Energy component -- still loosely linked to the Thought portion, > yet unable to pass on its energies to the soul's other half -- that's the > problem. In its state of disjunction, it can't "feed" the Thought-portion, > as in a normal (dead or embodied) soul; more, it can't even sustain > ITSELF, > without the Thought-component's help! (Tapping into the Energy Sphere is > something only a SENTIENT soul can figure out how to do, and on its own, > the Energy-component isn't very smart. :-D) That portion of the shadow's > soul which had once provided it with vitality, instead becomes an energy > "sink", sucking in whatever traces of mundane energy -- light, warmth, > the > Strength of living bodies -- its incorporeal form can come into contact > with. Sucking in MAGICAL energy is another story; as with tapping the > Energy Sphere, magic's awfully hard to handle for the (essentially > mindless) Energy-component, so that shadows can't become mini-NoS's and > absorb energy from spells or from the ambient magics of Mystara. Even > natural sunlight is a wee bit too magical for them, as Mystara's two suns > -- inner and outer -- both tap their energies from the Plane of Fire. > Light > from torches or campfires (or PCs' lanterns ;-D) is much more to their > "taste" ... and the physical vitality of corporeal beings -- the next best > thing to the spiritual energies their sundered souls can no longer draw > upon -- is the best thing of all, to slake their famished need for Energy. > > Thus, we have the major properties of shadows -- they're neither wholly > incorporeal nor truly gaseous, but a bit of both; they drain Strength by > touch; they're immune to mundane weapons; their bodies absorb light > (hence, > they look "shadowy"), yet they avoid Continual Light spells (magical light > does them no good) and the sun (ditto); they're alive, yet share many > similarities with the bodiless undead -- all laid out ... or at least, all > the ones I could think of! ;-D > > > > * * * * > > Bruce later suggested that the victims of shadows become shadows, because > a > shadow has to disjoin their Energy-component in the process of feeding > upon > them. If this proves fatal, the victim's Entropic tether breaks, and they > assume the same state as the shadow which killed them. > > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:06:59 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - =?iso-8859-1?Q?The_reason_I_don=27t_do_clerical_spells_?= This is something I've been thinking about for a while and it's an alternative way to treat priests in your campaign. I always felt like in OD&D and AD&D the difference between priests and magic users was ignored by the rules. What I mean is that although we all (I hope) understand the enormous difference between the character of priest and that of the mage but the system treated clerics (especially in OD&D) as something between a fighter and a magic user. While a fighting monk/ battle priest is fine and works well in fantasy, the option of a non-fighting cleric is ignored (OD&D) or misused (AD&D). Yes, there are always those "pacifistic" kits in AD&D but the fact that a priest stays in town and doesn't carry weapons, doesn't make him/her or his/hers Immortal pacifistic. And of course there are always those priest who (god forbid!) don't adventure! IMO adventuring priests should be even more rare than adventuring wizards. All these make the character of "priest" too general to work. As I see it there are four types of adventuring priests: 1. The Battle Priest- those priest of Vanya, Thor etc', who join a party for the same reasons fighters do. (whatever these are) 2. The Paladin/ Defender- the fighter with strong faith who has a few clerical powers bestowed on him. 3. The Renegade - this are normal priests (almost no fighting skills) who are for some reason outside of their church/order and have to use their skills and powers in order to survive in the world. 4. The Missioner/Holy Vessel- these are the most interesting and fun to play. The missioner has a special reason to adventure for a mission by his order or immortal. An example for this could be a priest of Ixion in some undead bashing mission (using powers granted by her immortal- see below), or a priest of Valerias sent to spread love among the hateful Heldannic Knights. After reading the "specialty priests" I decided to take things farther and make every priest really unique. This seems like really hard work but by applying a lot of "DM direction" it makes the game more interesting. (At least IMHO) In the "system" I want to use I rely on a few base assumptions: While an immortal is not all-powerful, its powers are immensely stronger than those of any mortal and therefore if a mortal had access to the powers of immortal he/she could do practically everything. A priest in the prime plane is a window to the powers of his/her immortal. The stronger of faith and more experienced a priests gets, the "bigger" the window and more immortal power can be used. An immortal will grant powers to his priest only to further the immortals goals. This differs for immortal to immortal and depends on the level of the priest. The kind of "miracle" a priest can create depends on the situation, the immortals goal, and the sphere's bias. A special power or miracle will require the priest to do something grand in honor of the immortal. Considering all this, no one knows exactly what a priest can do as its powers come directly from the immortal, a mysterious and super powerful being. As usual the only one who decides anything is the DM. I thought about several guidelines. They are quite general as I never was a fan of complicated rules for everything. Healing- not all priests can heal. Those who can are usually from the sphere of time (as "time heals all wounds") or druids/nature priests. Also immortals of peace and sleep are good examples. The amount of HP that can be healed requires some sort of (simple!) rule system, which I will create one day. (people are welcome to conribute). Heal Disease and Blindness are included in this category. Turn Undead- this is appropriate for some priests from the sphere of energy (as "light banishes darkness") and for Immortals of thought as it opposes entropy. The system in OD&D works well for me. But things can be added to show the individuality of the immortals. For example, a priest of Ixion might throw light on the undead, which makes them cower or ignite. A priest of Valerias may effect those undead who remember there life time and make them stop and remember there loved ones, A priest of Korys maybe can't turn undead away but maybe can "Hold" them in place. Control undead- same as above but only for priests of entropy. Fighting Ability- priests should differ as for the way they were trained. While most Heldannic knights were probably raised on the battlefield, but most priests shouldn't be more fighting capable than a magic user. Battle Powers- should be different than the "strike the enemy with a purple burst of energy" that is common with wizards. Blessing and curses should work especially for battle priests. Control powers are appropriate for most priests as well. Priests of nature (druids) should use "natural" elements in their fighting. Miscellaneous powers- everything that works for the player and DM is appropriate considering game balance and "logic". Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:23:16 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... Desperate Darren Bradley wrote: >I have been trying for quite a while to get off this mailing list >unsuccesfully I have used and sent the email asking to get off this list >with the appropriate syntax, yet still I am on this list. Could somebody >please take me off of this list. Thank you. and Cursed Edward Phillips added: >and me, it keeps coming back with weird error messages. Oh, the poor fellows... they don't know the truth of the matter.. Didn't you know that by signing in you've sold your soul to Leroy van Devil? Didn't you know that once inside you cannot ever leave? Our List is worse than Ravenloft's Mists... there is NO escape from the MML... never ever... Prepare to spend the rest of your eternity with us.. mwauauauhahahaha..... *grin* Wicked DM goin nuts... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:32:47 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? >>> (Rassilon, of course, knew nobody ambitious enough to complete the various >>> tasks he'd set, could ever be trusted with immortality. :-D) The Paths of >>> Immortality could be the same sort of decoy, for the overly ambitious ... >>> just a lot more subtle than petrification. > Glad you like the idea, though! The whole premise that the secrets of the > universe, eternal life, and so on should be reserved for those who can > hack-n-slash their way to 36th level might be a convenient premise for an > RPG -- let's face it: once you cut through the hype, questing for > Immortality was simply a way you could "win" the D&D game -- but it's NOT a > very satisfying or fair world-view, when you actually think about it. I think it's a matter of "what does it take to win?". Is it every Mystaran's dream to attain immortality or Old One status? Most people would have no idea that there are Old Ones around. Actually I don't think the immortals know. Not for sure anyway. They might be guessing that there're some powers even higher than them, and have designated them Old Ones, but they're really just guessing here. And if there are Old Ones, attaining their level of existance would probably require an entirely different approach than becoming immortal. If it's even possible. >>It would be unfortunate, however, to have characters completely >>circumventing the Immortal level...I guess most characters aren't >>inclined to lead a life of meditation and reflection on the wisdom of the >>universe, though. It might prove interesting for people running an >>Immortals campaign to have a route to retirement in mastery of all five >>spheres as well as Taoist-styled meditation and wisdom overlooking their >>actions. Very interesting indeed... > > Here's a thought: now that the four Paths aren't limited to the four core > character-classes, but can be pursued by just about anyone, might it be > possible for people who AREN'T adventurers, at all (!), to follow a Path > successfully? For example, could the greatest chess-player on Mystara > complete the Path of the Paragon, by commissioning an unique magical chess > set with animated pieces, transforming a region's appearance by mundane > methods, and then (here's the sneaky part) deftly "defeating" several > powerful wizards AT CHESS...? > who was "legendary" in his blacksmithing skills. Immortals of this sort > might never become as prestigious as former heroes and super-wizards, but > they'd be there in the background, both as patrons for their respective > vocations, and as a calm, sober layman's voice-of-reason that might help > keep Pandius's hot-heads in check. :-) This is exactly my point of view. IMC you certainly don't have to follow the paths to immortality. People do, but this is because they are meant to be taught lessons, and these obstacles they are supposed to overcome are meant to teach them these lessons. I still subscribe to enlightenment as the primary factor in attaining immortality, though I have to agree that immortals have been portrayed as less than enlightened in published material (as per an earlier string). I think the take is how you tackle that enlightenment. Some immortals (like Alphaks) get bent on destruction, since they can't really cope with it, others, like Korotiku, take a comedian's approach to it all, while some, like Odin, take it all very seriously. But IMO they have all attained enlightenment, and that was what caused them to transcend to immortality. This means that anybody can attain immortality. Doesn't matter if they are blacksmiths, chess players, or superheroes, it's all a matter of attaining enlightenment. Of course no players will actually become immortals, just by pondering the secrets of the Multiverse, but then that's not what they want to. They want to have adventures and excitement and that kind of thing, and they are not at all interested in transcending to immortality. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:46:45 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... >Wicked DM goin nuts... Going nuts? I think he's way past that... but he's right. There is no escape. I tried it once, you can still see the marks on my body. You'd better get used to the idea of spending your time with us. Can't you feel the heat of the burning flames? The laughter of the countless souls gone mad? Fools! Didn't they warn you?! Why didn't you heed the stories the old sages told you? Leroy pretends to be a nice guy (and does a good job), but in fact he can control, ever since you signed your soul (and the soul of your hard drive) away to Mystara. I hope you get used to it (in the end). Kristian "losing it" Kramer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #153 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 31 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 154 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? RE: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB [MYSTARA] - OD&D Tome of Spellcraft, 4th Edition Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:49:32 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals : how do they get there? >>I see it as a matter of enlightenment. I used to play the RPG >>Nephilim in which your character strives to become a perfect being, >>by mastering a certain number of skills and thus attaining >>enlightenment. You might wanna check it out. What I think is weird is >>that the radiance or nuclear meltdown can make you immortal. This >>would imply that immortality is not a question of state of mind but >>rather state of being. You might say that becoming immortal is a >>matter of subjecting your mortal body to large amount of radiation >>(as in emitted energy) thus transforming your whole being into a >>different one capable of existing in four dimensions instead of >>three. And this whole four-dimensional existance might be what it >>takes to obtain Power Points and the abilities associated with >>immortals. This will definitely not be how it works IMC, as I vote >>for intellectual/spiritual enlightenment, but it might work for >>others. > > To be honest, I don't think of Immortals as the equivalent of "gods" in the > classical sense -- i.e. the "I-created-the-universe", > never-wrong-about-anything sense -- so much as beings like that naked blue > guy, from the old "Watchmen" graphic novel! They're more like superheroes, > than deities: sure, they can perform incredible deeds and wield phenomenal > power ... but they still have to roll up their sleeves and DO those things > themselves, getting their hands dirty and exerting their resources; they I don't see immortals as omnipotent either. But I like to see them as much more enlightened than your average Joe Schmuck. Their perspective would also be Mystara and they play an active role in that world, even though I certainly don't think they created the universe (the Old Ones probably did), but they have taken it upon themselves to watch over it and to groom more of their kind in order to expand their own state of enlightenment by observing and sometimes meddling in the affairs of the mortals. > who would've abused their Immortal powers unduly. Of the five Spheres, > only Time really seems to try to TEACH its recruits a clear moral/ethical > lesson, in the process of testing their worthiness for Immortality; for the > other four, it's enough that the supplicant can check off each of the > requirements, with little or no concern for whether he or she is learning > anything, in the process. I don't agree with this. I think that overcoming great obstacles, like the ones in the tests for immortality, yields it's own enlightenment, and helps you see the world around you in a new perspective. Even though Time focuses more on directly teaching enlightenment, the other spheres wish to impart the same knowledge, but rather indirectly. > That's why I like to think that the Old Ones really ARE beings who've > attained enlightenment, and exist on a higher plane of consciousness that's > above all the pettiness of the mortal (and Immortal) world: there sure > isn't much of that sort of thing, at the Immortals' level; and I'd like to > think there's not a whole other tier or two (or six, or a hundred...) > before we find somebody who actually knows what he/she/it ought to be > doing, with all that power. And as for the Old Ones: These are the beings that have attained TRUE enlightenment. Where the immortals have only a limited perspective, and are not adept enough at handling that perspective, the Old Ones ARE omnipotent, they know all, and they know how to deal with that knowledge. IMO anyway. And this is way the Old One encounter in WOTI doesn't make any sense to me at all, and why I will never use it... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:00:06 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... > >Wicked DM goin nuts... > > Going nuts? I think he's way past that... but he's right. There is no > escape. I tried it once, you can still see the marks on my body. > You'd better get used to the idea of spending your time with us. Can't you > feel the heat of the burning flames? The laughter of the countless souls > gone mad? > Fools! Didn't they warn you?! Why didn't you heed the stories the old sages > told you? > Leroy pretends to be a nice guy (and does a good job), but in fact he can > control, ever since you signed your soul (and the soul of your hard drive) > away to Mystara. > > I hope you get used to it (in the end). But really. If you're that desperate to get off, just stop reading your mail. I'm sure Leroy will take action when he starts getting messages that your mail catalog is filled... :) And Leroy, sorry about those duplicate mails; it was my mail program that auto-replied to you as well. ::) Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:50:00 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB >After hearing both Jenn and Carl tell me they like the Hollow Moon, so much >(YEEE-HAW!), I finally got back to the grindstone, and finished another HM >post on the MMB. It's about the Ur-Carnifex, the savage ancestors of the >infamous M3 "long pork"-lovers: check it out! 8-) Could you also send it to the list? YOU know I am an admirer of youre work, but I dont have the time to follow both foroums. or you can e mail me privately. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies ohadshm@inter.net.il *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 08:23:01 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Tome of Spellcraft, 4th Edition I'm working a million different projects nowadays it seems, but the Tome is almost ready for its 4th Edition release to y'all. Anyone have any last minute spells they want included? Y'all have given this pet project of mine alot of support and I hope it keeps up! After this edition, I will be dropping the cleric section, as no new spells have been sent in the last 2 editions, unless y'all want me to keep it for the sake of completeness. Let me know! Jim Bobb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:54:18 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > I was down at my local public library today, and saw a few things which > gave me a few ideas about the Ratlings... > Third, and final, I saw a book all about how rats have influenced human > history by spreading diseases such as the Black Death and typhus. How > contagious do you think the ratlings should be? Enough to start a plague > that devastates the Savage Coast? Or just enough to make enough people mad > enough at them to try and exterminate the pests? Should they be contagious at all? Ive been toying with the idea of a group of Ratling clerics following an Immortal of Plague (IMC called Danobaath). These would be responsible for spreading the plague, blaming it on Ratlings in general. What do you think? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:56:46 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Does anyone on this list run a Savage Coast campaign? I just started one in the Savage Baronies, and Id be interested in hearing about other GMs campaigns. My own campaign started with a short scenario which ended when the heroes failed to prevent the summoning of a sea demon, and the demon killed the heroes. Luckily the players enjoyed it and have created new characters for further gaming. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:12:27 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Questions >Plus, technically Prince Brannart isn't eligable to be a noble, in the >traditional sense -- being dead kinda disqualifies you from holding a >title, even though the Prince of Klantyre's lichdom is a secret ;-) -- so Nah, not in Glantri. In Glantri only not being a wizard disqualifies you from holding a title. Otherwise, you can be dead, a werewolf, a kobold, a dragon, or whatever, nobody will object (too much) :) >Maybe he attained High Mastery at 20th level, then lost a few levels to an >undead creature. (A difference of opinion with Morphail, perhaps...? ;-D) > That's possible too. Actually if we go by G:KoM, he is something like 12th level now, after having a friendly chat with his former relatives who are now wraiths. I guess they didn't like the food at his banquets - too much extraneous stuff mixed in, I think. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:54:35 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? >From: Håvard_Rønne_Faanes >Does anyone on this list run a Savage Coast campaign? I just started one in the Savage Baronies, and Id be interested in hearing about other GMs campaigns. IMO it's hardest to set a campain on SC as it's been developed later and isn't as well described as KW. I've always feeled somewhat troubled by the use of the red curse and the guns/weapon ... >My own campaign started with a short scenario which ended when the heroes failed to prevent the summoning of a sea demon, and the demon killed the heroes. Luckily the players enjoyed it and have created new characters for further gaming. Was it Chtulu ? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:19:11 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: > Does anyone on this list run a Savage Coast campaign? I just started one > in the Savage Baronies, and Id be interested in hearing about other GMs > campaigns. My own campaign started with a short scenario which ended when > the heroes failed to prevent the summoning of a sea demon, and the demon > killed the heroes. Luckily the players enjoyed it and have created new > characters for further gaming. > > Håvard What masochistic players you have, for them to have enjoyed death! Actually, I have been slowly incorporating things from the Savage Coast into my campaign in Karameikos: wandering bands of lupins, raiding parties of aranea. Eventually I will be adding missions to and from the Coast. So far, they are liking things, and its less lethal than yours was :) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:24:40 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: > Should they be contagious at all? > Ive been toying with the idea of a group of Ratling clerics following an > Immortal of Plague (IMC called Danobaath). These would be responsible for > spreading the plague, blaming it on Ratlings in general. What do you > think? > > Håvard It's always a good idea to have some redeeming quality about a whole race when introducing new ones. So making "a few bad apples" be responsible for a nasty plague and generating blame on the Ratlings is a great way to create political intrigue. In other words...I like it. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:59:37 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB >>After hearing both Jenn and Carl tell me they like the Hollow Moon, so much >>(YEEE-HAW!), I finally got back to the grindstone, and finished another HM >>post on the MMB. It's about the Ur-Carnifex, the savage ancestors of the >>infamous M3 "long pork"-lovers: check it out! 8-) > >Could you also send it to the list? >YOU know I am an admirer of youre work, but I dont have the time to follow >both foroums. >or you can e mail me privately. >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) >"and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies I'm reluctant to send it here, or to individuals, because it's such a humungous monster of a post. (I do tend to run on, as if the whole world hadn't noticed...! ;-D) I wouldn't want to fill up people's e-mailboxes, if they aren't interested; and if you recall, Ohad, I've had technical problems with my own (outdated and clunky :-P) e-mail account before, when I tried to send or receive large messages. So no offense, but I'd rather keep using the MMB as my avenue for "netcasting" this stuff: let WotC's computers stagger under the data-load. I'm hoping Stan will archive my Ur-Carnifex post, with the other HM material, soon enough -- you're still out there, right Stan? -- so eventually, it should be available on the MML's website for readers who don't follow the MMB. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:48:16 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings >It's always a good idea to have some redeeming quality about a whole race >when introducing new ones. So making "a few bad apples" be responsible >for a nasty plague and generating blame on the Ratlings is a great way to >create political intrigue. > >In other words...I like it. > >--Frobozz-- I like it, too. It'd be an interesting conflict within the ratling culture - -- plague-spreaders working against the interests of their own people -- as well as a nasty political mess for the Savage Coast. A very tense situation, for well-meaning PCs to get involved in ... especially if they're kept in the dark as to whether or not the "good guy" ratlings, themselves, carry the plague without realizing it (like Typhoid Mary). Assuming the majority of ratlings are non-carriers -- that it's just these evil priests, who are causing all the trouble -- the popular misconception that they ARE infectious, on the part of many SC citizens, would confront PCs with some tough ethical decisions, in the harrowing weeks or months before the plague's true source came to light. They'd have to choose whether to help expel or quarantine the ratlings for safety's sake, by force if necessary -- which is probably what the SC governments would want to do -- or to wait until it's been confirmed that these newcomers actually are infected. If the PCs side with the quarantine-enforcers, they'd have to try and keep the disease-control efforts from turning into a pogrom; conversely, if they side with the wrongly-maligned ratlings, they'd have to protect innocent rodent-folk from lynchings, and attempts by angry mobs to burn their homes and possessions. There are lots of books about plague (both fiction and non-fiction; Camus would be a must-read, here :-D), that'd help out the DM in setting up these situations. Amusing thought: If this disease is anything like the real Black Death, aranea are sure to be immune to it. (Spiders get mites, not fleas.) Lots of Herathians might find themselves having to FAKE symptoms of the plague, because it'd rouse too much suspicion -- not to mention envy -- if every single influential person in Herath was "lucky enough" to avoid infection.... :-) BTW, are we assuming Mrikitat is the ratlings' only Immortal...? If they're a newly-created race, they might not have had time to attract other patrons' attention; this plague-Immortal might be every bit as unknown to the ratlings who don't serve him, as to other races. Or would the ratlings have a complete pantheon, like the other SC "zoomorphic" races? Another bit of rat-trivia I found: While the precise geographic origin of rats is unknown, it's thought that their species started its expansion around the world from the arid lands of Central Asia, possibly around the Gobi Desert. They need very little water -- a mark of desert origins -- which is why they adapt so well to life inside buildings or granaries, where water isn't readily-accessible (unless, of course, you can turn a faucet). Because the central Savage Coast is mostly arid, these ratlings might find they've got an inborn metabolic edge over other races, in carving a homeland from the local wilderness! Long voyages at sea -- a very appropriate lifestyle, for "wharf" ratlings -- are yet another instance, where needing only a fraction of the fresh water a human requires may give ratlings an advantage. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 14:06:17 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Haavard Faanes wrote: >>>Ive been toying with the idea of a group of Ratling clerics following >>>an Immortal of Plague (IMC called Danobaath). These would be >>>responsible for spreading the plague, blaming it on Ratlings in >>>general. What do you think? It's an interesting idea, with some possibilities... the only difficulty I can think of (and which, if solved, will help broaden the role-playing) is how Danobaath (or Thanatos, in a Danobaath-less campaign :) ) discovers the ratlings, and manages to convert some of them. the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: >>It's always a good idea to have some redeeming quality about a whole race >>when introducing new ones. So making "a few bad apples" be responsible >>for a nasty plague and generating blame on the Ratlings is a great way to >>create political intrigue. >> >>In other words...I like it. Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >I like it, too. It'd be an interesting conflict within the ratling culture >-- plague-spreaders working against the interests of their own people -- as >well as a nasty political mess for the Savage Coast. A very tense >situation, for well-meaning PCs to get involved in ... especially if >they're kept in the dark as to whether or not the "good guy" ratlings, >themselves, carry the plague without realizing it (like Typhoid Mary). > >Assuming the majority of ratlings are non-carriers -- that it's just these >evil priests, who are causing all the trouble I'm going complicate matters, and say that the priests cause most of the trouble, and most other ratlings aren't carriers... but that there are a number of non-priests who /are/ "Typhoid Mary"s. >the popular misconception >that they ARE infectious, on the part of many SC citizens, would confront >PCs with some tough ethical decisions, in the harrowing weeks or months >before the plague's true source came to light. They'd have to choose >whether to help expel or quarantine the ratlings for safety's sake, by >force if necessary -- which is probably what the SC governments would want >to do -- or to wait until it's been confirmed that these newcomers actually >are infected. If the PCs side with the quarantine-enforcers, they'd have >to try and keep the disease-control efforts from turning into a pogrom; >conversely, if they side with the wrongly-maligned ratlings, they'd have to >protect innocent rodent-folk from lynchings, and attempts by angry mobs to >burn their homes and possessions. Sharon, I wish I could play in your games. :) Since I've re-subbed to the list, you've consistently come up with neat ideas that I want to use myself. (P.S.: I don't suppose you have any interest in running a PBeM..? :) ) >There are lots of books about plague (both fiction and non-fiction; Camus >would be a must-read, here :-D), that'd help out the DM in setting up >these situations. I fear my lack of a good education now shows, as, in order to find out who Camus is, I'd have to pull out an encyclopedia or do a web-search. Would you mind posting a brief description, if you reply to this message? >Amusing thought: If this disease is anything like the real Black Death, >aranea are sure to be immune to it. (Spiders get mites, not fleas.) Lots >of Herathians might find themselves having to FAKE symptoms of the plague, >because it'd rouse too much suspicion -- not to mention envy -- if every >single influential person in Herath was "lucky enough" to avoid >infection.... :-) As long as everything's internally consistant, I say the more complex, the more interesting. :) >BTW, are we assuming Mrikitat is the ratlings' only Immortal...? If >they're a newly-created race, they might not have had time to attract other >patrons' attention; this plague-Immortal might be every bit as unknown to >the ratlings who don't serve him, as to other races. Or would the >ratlings have a complete pantheon, like the other SC "zoomorphic" races? Mrikitat is the head of the ratlings' pantheon, but the way I'm arranging things for myself, he consulted several other Immortals when he created them - Korotiku, Ka, Terra, and Nyx - who are keeping half of an eye on the new race. Which gives the interesting result of four Heirarchs being subordanate to an Empyreal in this pantheon... :) >Another bit of rat-trivia I found: While the precise geographic origin of >rats is unknown, it's thought that their species started its expansion >around the world from the arid lands of Central Asia, possibly around the >Gobi Desert. They need very little water -- a mark of desert origins -- >which is why they adapt so well to life inside buildings or granaries, >where water isn't readily-accessible (unless, of course, you can turn a >faucet). Because the central Savage Coast is mostly arid, these ratlings >might find they've got an inborn metabolic edge over other races, in >carving a homeland from the local wilderness! Long voyages at sea -- a >very appropriate lifestyle, for "wharf" ratlings -- are yet another >instance, where needing only a fraction of the fresh water a human requires >may give ratlings an advantage. :-) I've been thinking a bit about where the ratlings are going to end up in the near future, and have had a few ideas: A) Graakhalia and the Great Waste. As "Desert Rats", they'd mingle with the Master's humanoids for a while, at least until their numbers increase enough to be able to kick them out... B) North of the Savage Coast: Immediately north is the Yazak Steppes, but according to the world-map from the Hollow World and Rules Cyclopedia, there's an enormouse forest surrounded on the north and east by plains. Perhaps the Mrikans bring along their rat-cattle (rattle?), and form a Masai-like, herding, pastoral culture? C) "Sea Rats": As Sharon said above, they'd have an advantage on ships, and might end up anywhere on Brun, Davania, or Skothar. (A perfect excuse to introduce ratlings to any particular spot on Mystara the DM wants them to be... :) ) D) "River Rats": Between the Immortals' Arm and the Orc's Head Peninsula is Yalu Bay, which is fed from the north by the Yalu River, which is several thousand miles long. Hm... perhaps some Sea Rats start migrating up and down the Yalu, and later some of them settle in Brun's northern plains? If you can think of anywhere else the ratlings should pop up, or feel like expanding any of the ideas mentioned above, I'd like to hear what you have to say. - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:12:31 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? >IMO it's hardest to set a campain on SC as it's been developed later and >isn't as well described as KW. I've always feeled somewhat troubled by >the use of the red curse and the guns/weapon ... Heh. OTOH, my players loved the guns. Instead of buckling on the shining armour and the bastard sword, when the pit fiend appears they are ducking behind cover and letting him have it... The Savage Baronies is detailed enough - you have good descriptions on all the baronies available, there is a fair bit of politics included in there, and so on. You have to keep in mind that they are all really small, so there isnt a lot in them to include (most have one big town (the capital) and one or two sleepy little villages). Red Steel is very different from any other xD&D campaign setting (thats why I like it) - all this stuff on guns, panache, gunpowder and so on all is aimed at a completely different, perhaps less serious style of gaming. ie Swashbuckling! Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 18:56:38 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel I've been thinking about Davania, and placing some ratlings there. However, in "my" Mystara I've established that the ratlings are created in AC 1016, and before that they didn't exist. However... I remembered that Mrikitat (the rat Immortal) is of the Sphere of Time... so there might be a way for him to transport some ratlings from 1016 to 116, or any other year, and give them some time to expand, multiply, create a culture, and so forth, so that they're flourishing quite well when 1016 rolls around again. However... the only thing we really know about Immortals of Time and time-travel is from the Chronomancer book, and Herve Musseau's expansion of that text. Does anybody have any ideas on how Mrikitat might go about re-writing history, and how other Immortals would react (if and when they become aware of his time-tampering)? Also, can anybody think of any previous ret-cons which the Immortals might have performed? The sinking and recovery of Alphatia is probably one such occasion... I'm not sure why Time Immortals weren't able to do anything with Blackmoor during its own catastrophe... any ideas? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:22:37 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings In a message dated 3/30/99 2:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, dboese@niagara.becon.org writes: << I can think of (and which, if solved, will help broaden the role-playing) is how Danobaath (or Thanatos, in a Danobaath-less campaign :) ) discovers the ratlings, and manages to convert some of them. >> What if the priests have nothing to do with the ratlings, but perceive them as a threat to their patrons areas (I.E., decay, the unclean, etc., (whatever)) cause the ratlings move in and do the jobs cheaper and faster than locals, (you figure out the reason). The plague is introduced as a reason to drive them out, and the priests are then ready to step in and "halt" the plague once the ratlings are gone. Ratlings . . . .hm . . . . Roh'dants? . . . Verminids? . . . or name them in honor of the Lahnkmar rat-creatures? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 17:44:12 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The List... the Mists... > > Going nuts? I think he's way past that... but he's right. There is no > > escape. I tried it once, you can still see the marks on my body. > > You'd better get used to the idea of spending your time with us. Can't you > > feel the heat of the burning flames? The laughter of the countless souls > > gone mad? > > Fools! Didn't they warn you?! Why didn't you heed the stories the old sages > > told you? > > Leroy pretends to be a nice guy (and does a good job), but in fact he can > > control, ever since you signed your soul (and the soul of your hard drive) > > away to Mystara. Yeah, but, I am finding that souls take up a lot of space, and as they keep pouring in I am running out of room! Not sure if I should recycle them or have a yard sale... > > But really. If you're that desperate to get off, just stop reading > your mail. I'm sure Leroy will take action when he starts getting > messages that your mail catalog is filled... :) Fear not, they have been summarily exec... erm, unsubscribed. > And Leroy, sorry about those duplicate mails; it was my mail program > that auto-replied to you as well. ::) No problem. Nice to know that out there, somewhere, there is at least an e-mail program that acknowledges my existance. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:21:26 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel > However... the only thing we really know about Immortals of Time and > time-travel is from the Chronomancer book, and Herve Musseau's expansion > of that text. Does anybody have any ideas on how Mrikitat might go about > re-writing history, and how other Immortals would react (if and when they > become aware of his time-tampering)? That kind of depends on whether the rewriting would have any major implications for other races, I think. If Mrikitat dumped the ratlings in an unexplored area, where they would have had little impact on others, maybe nobody cared or even noticed. Of course if he started them near say Glantri (up on the plateau) they may very well have had tremendous impact on that culture. Who knows, perhaps they have been enslaved by the wizards to serve as lab-assistants or test subjects, or whatever... Actually I've had to make a time-altereration for the Savage Coast, since I've had a party travel there during the original Savage Coast adventure module and then introducing cultures out there later. Eek! Most players don't take too well to that kind of thing, but they enjoyed the second visit so much that they forgave me. ;-) > Also, can anybody think of any previous ret-cons which the Immortals > might have performed? The sinking and recovery of Alphatia is probably one > such occasion... I seem to recall that Thanatos attempted some sort of rewriting of history in the HWA-trilogy...I can't seem to remember what it was all about though... > I'm not sure why Time Immortals weren't able to do anything with > Blackmoor during its own catastrophe... any ideas? Well, who's to say that the immortals themselves didn't have a hand in instigating the Blackmoor catastrophe. Perhaps they felt threatened, or perhaps the Time immortals figured out that it was best for the furture of Mystara if it happened the way it did. What I was wondering was why the immortals didn't set up some Blackmoorians in the Hollow World. I mean when they were under the influence of the Spell of Preservation they wouldn't make another disaster, right? And if the HW hadn't been set up at the time, well, THEN the Time immortals could travel back and grab a few of them and send them down there. Of course in your (or my) campaign they may have done just that, and the Blackmoorians are stuck in som eundeveloped territory... On a different note I've kicked off my time-travelling campaign, that I mentioned in my earlier Journey to the Past-string, and if anybody would like to hear what's happening, drop me a note and I'll try to conjure up some adventure journals... Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #154 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, March 31 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 155 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings [none] Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel [MYSTARA] - Re: New HM post on MMB [MYSTARA] - Re: More thoughts on Ratlings [MYSTARA] - Importing Spelljammers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:21:59 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Personally, what I wanna know is why the mummy-rot plague didn't just die > out on its own, on the Day of Dread! Mummy-rot is a magical disease, IIRC, > and it'd been introduced to those Thyatian grain-crops in the form of a > magic potion. So, at the very least, the negation of all magic should have > instantly nullified the contamination in Thyatis's granaries and bread > supplies ... even if one day's respite wasn't long enough for > already-infected victims to recover. Lets say that mummy rot is a bacteria cursed with a strong magical aura that protects the bacteria from being harmed by cure disease, white blood cells, and other curative methods. When the cell splits...bolth cells have the curse. Then during the DoD....it could have lost its protection against cure disease....but that spell doesn't work on the DoD. At that point a persons white blood cells wound combat the mummy rot but in 24 hours the rot regains its protection like a magic item. If magic failed for a long period of time, normal curative methods would heal the person. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 14:36:31 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention Do you remeber that we planned to stage a Mystara Convention this summer? Some of you may even hae expressed their interest in it. Well, we have continued our homework and, though everything is not ready yet, we are indeed going to host that convention! What we need to know now is who is going to come (and when, for hotel booking). With that information we'll be able to determine the price of the convention and hotel rooms (see below). The text below contains more information about the convention. Thank you for letting me know ASAP when you come. Please send you applications to herve@hotmail.com and not this forum. PS: Can someone please forward this post to the MMB? *European Mystara Convention* Site and date: The convention takes places in Paris, France, from August 2nd 1999 to August 4th 1999. The room where we meet is located at: 22 Avenue de la Porte d'Asnières, Paris 17ème (1st building, ground level). Metro: Wagram, Pereire. RER: Pereire. Bus: 53, 94, PC. Train: Pont-Cardinet. Interactive map: http://www.ismap.com/Cgi-Bin/geo/webmap.exe?numero=22&adresse=Avenue+de+la+Porte+d%27Asnieres&type=4&dp=3&sql=&xbmp=400&ybmp=250&model=_is.mod&lng=a&bdd=par The hotel where we book rooms: xxx. Metro: xxx. Interactive map: xxx. Planning: Prior to Day 1: We start on a monday so people can come during the week-end and spend it in Paris if they wish. Day 1: Monday 2. 2pm: 1st meeting. We all gather at the convention room, meet, get our gift , and start discussing about Mystara. Discussion can include things like why we like mystara, how we want it evolve, what makes it stand apart, whether we want it back or only on the net, why we like this country or that culture or that NPC, ... People can stay as late as they wish in the night discussing in broad or small groups on various subjects. During the day it is also possible to sign on for various RPG sessions that will be held tuesday. Items can be sold/purchased if some brought stuff they want to part from. Food and drink available. Day 2: Tuesday 3. All RPGs start at their set time (morning, afternoon... depends on the DM). It is a roleplaying day. Play can continue into the night and morning if needed... Food and drink available. Day 3: Wednesday 4. 2pm: We meet again. We discuss Mystara again. We ask if everyone enjoyed the convention and what they'd want to see next year (or not see again). We vote on the site of next year's convention. When we've had enough, we go together to the Champs and sit at a cafe to drink something together (if alcohol at your own expense). Then we split. After: People who wish to visit Paris more can do it the rest of the week if they can take enough vacation... Also some may reside in the same hotel, or even if they don't they may have made good friends with others, and may then spend some more time together either visiting Paris, or discussing and/or rolepaying more... Fee: EURxxx for the convention including meeting room, food&drink (not alcohol), gift, gaming material and various stuff (paid to us in advance). EURxxx for the hotel room per day (single) or EURxxx per day (twin, if we can find another person who wants a twin room at the same dates) (paid to us in advance, if you reside there). Inscription must be made before April 30th 1999. Payment must be made in euros or in french francs before May 31st 1999 to xxx. Checks, money orders or bank transfer (account number & other relevant banking information needed) accepted. Notes: Hotel: You may wish to book a hotel room somewhere else (or something else than an hotel room), but in that case you should search for yourself. Alcohol/Smoke: Alcohol can be brought in but it is at your own expense (please avoid getting drunk during convention meetings). Smoking is better done outside during breaks (it'll be summer). Gift: What the gift consists in is a secret until the convention. It is Mystara-relevant, and will be available only to people who sign up for the convention. If you cannot make it to the convention, your gift will be sent to you by the post (but we keep your money, see below). Refund: There will be no refunds unless the convention is cancelled altogether. But you will receive your gift by the post soon afterwards. Cost: This document is not finished and lacks some info, especially costs. They will be added when we have them. The more we are the lower the price for each of us (better bargains, fixed costs shared). Current estimates are: around EUR30 for the convention, around EUR50/day for the hotel room. Euro: We have a new currency, let's use it! FYI EUR1=FRF6.55957. Non-European: You can sign up for the convention. You can sign up for the convention just to get the gift if you wish to (anyone can do that, actually). No inscription: If you haven't signed up for the convention in due time, you may decide at the last minute to come anyway. This is at the risk of not having a place (especially no gift). Also, you'll have to book your hotel room yourself. The sooner you warn, the more chance you have we can do something for you. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:49:17 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > Does anyone on this list run a Savage Coast campaign? I just started one > in the Savage Baronies, and Id be interested in hearing about other GMs > campaigns. My own campaign started with a short scenario which ended when > the heroes failed to prevent the summoning of a sea demon, and the demon > killed the heroes. Luckily the players enjoyed it and have created new > characters for further gaming. > I started a SC campaign last year, but now it is paused for lack of time. However, it allowed me to introduce swashbuckling & romance to my players (Not thinking of the weird SC PC races etc). They took it quite seriously, and one of the characters died in a duel with another after arguing over the possibility of giving a honorable death to some goblin prisoner. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 BoBoII@aol.com wrote: > Ratlings . . . .hm . . . . Roh'dants? . . . Verminids? . . . or name them in > honor of the Lahnkmar rat-creatures? What? Call them "Hisvets" or something? :) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 17:31:06 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > I say that the DotE claims that any user of magic who reaches ultimate > mastery is allowed. From the Alphatian point-of-view a magic user and a > magic-user are different things. Exactly my point (if I have understood you correctly!). > (Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a > 36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he > can't cast 7th level spells...) A difficult question: IIRC I have posted my opinion some months ago, but I'll repeat it. If the law says that you must be of absolute power (= level) and capable of wielding magic you have a chance to reach a positive judgement at a imperial court. I have put an avenger into the Grand Council and I have described how this happened: Some members who were his friends or who saw advantages in it made him a candidate. Others were strictly against this idea. He said that he could kill them in one or two rounds and some challenged him so he had to prove it. As a level 36 avenger IS capable to kill every wizard or cleric in an extremely short amount of time the matter was settled very quickly. Jamuga Khan "The things are not always as we like them to be." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:06:36 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions > Living on the UNDERside of the FCs should work fine, though: nice idea, > Andre! Perhaps DMs who use the SJ rules for space travel -- and hence, for > gravity -- instead of the CoM rules, could adopt that concept. This reminds me to "The Alphatian Underside", an article I've written about post-war Alphatia. Of course, as I have decided against a gravity pulling up, inhabitants have to live in caves or in buildings hanging down from the rock. BTW, I have decided against the reversed gravity as it is the normal standard in the D&D universe (look CoM). If I were a fan of AD&D and Spelljammer, it probably would have been the contrary. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:17:49 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > Personally, what I wanna know is why the mummy-rot plague didn't just die > out on its own, on the Day of Dread! Mummy-rot is a magical disease, IIRC, > and it'd been introduced to those Thyatian grain-crops in the form of a > magic potion. So, at the very least, the negation of all magic should have > instantly nullified the contamination in Thyatis's granaries and bread > supplies ... even if one day's respite wasn't long enough for > already-infected victims to recover. Probably it returned at once one day later... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:25:52 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > DoTE makes no exceptions for avengers and paladins. No fighter type is > able to rise above the status of gentry, and I doubt the Alphatians make > an exception simply because a swordsman can detect evil. You're absolutely right: "Dawn of the Empires" did not make any exception for avengers and paladins! But that means that the normal rule must be applied: Who can wield magic, is a aristocrat. Additionally, only fighters who can prove their clerical-magical abilities will become nobles. Remember, to cast spells an avenger or a paladin must have a wisdom of 13+ ... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:27:52 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > It is unusual, but easily possible. Exactly my opinion! > (which is weird anyway, as the religion is the easy way to aristocracy) I have published my opinion before that you must have enough faith to become a cleric, or the immortal must be interest in you. If none of those conditions is fulfilled the poor Alphatian is a simple noble - without any hope to become a noble. (Of course, if he has a chaotic alignment, he could become an avenger. NOBODY awaits FAITH from an avenger!) > (Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a > 36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he > can't cast 7th level spells...) Another interesting matter of justice! What's the opinion of the MML's advocate? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:05:06 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel >That kind of depends on whether the rewriting would have any major >implications for other races, I think. If Mrikitat dumped the >ratlings in an unexplored area, where they would have had little >impact on others, maybe nobody cared or even noticed. Of course if he >started them near say Glantri (up on the plateau) they may very well >have had tremendous impact on that culture. Who knows, perhaps they >have been enslaved by the wizards to serve as lab-assistants or test >subjects, or whatever... Maybe if they've been used/employed in labs for generations, then too-frequent exposure to magic (or the Radiance) could have caused a mutation among them ... one that causes albinism. In other words, "white lab-ratlings". :-) >> Also, can anybody think of any previous ret-cons which the Immortals >> might have performed? The sinking and recovery of Alphatia is probably one >> such occasion... > >I seem to recall that Thanatos attempted some sort of rewriting of >history in the HWA-trilogy...I can't seem to remember what it was all >about though... It wasn't a re-writing of history IIRC, just a way to decoy the other Immortals into the past so they wouldn't screw with his HWA plots. Given that Time-Immortals learn from their Path that it's best to let history run its course, I doubt very many of them would endorse the massive intervention necessary to save Blackmoor. It would also violate the Immortals' obligation not to interfere with mortals: if the Blackmoorians wanted to blow themselves up, the Time-Sphere's attitude might've been that that was THEIR decision, not something the Immortals have any business countermanding. >What I >was wondering was why the immortals didn't set up some Blackmoorians >in the Hollow World. I mean when they were under the influence of the >Spell of Preservation they wouldn't make another disaster, right? And >if the HW hadn't been set up at the time, well, THEN the Time >immortals could travel back and grab a few of them and send them down >there. Of course in your (or my) campaign they may have done just >that, and the Blackmoorians are stuck in som eundeveloped >territory... The HW already existed -- it goes back to the dinosaur era, after all -- but I think the Blackmoor culture was vaporized so totally, there literally wasn't anyone left, to send to the museum-setting. The four HW Immortals presumably had their hands full, just trying to save the cultures which HADN'T been nuked (like the Oltecs and Azcans); performing the kind of "mass resurrection" they did for Alphatia, when there's nothing but radioactive ash left to work with, probably lay beyond even Hierarchs' abilities. Granted, a Time-Immortal could hypothetically have gone back, and collected a few Blackmoorians for later preservation. But remember that the HW Council's Time-Immortal is Ordana ... a treant who'd have been HORRIFIED at the firepower (emphasis on "fire") of Blackmoor's self-destruction; and creator of the Evergrun elves, who'd had her "children" seduced away from her by the lure of (ugh!) technology. Plus, we know Blackmoorians didn't worship any Time-Immortals, themselves -- Khoronus was their first, but he only became Immortal in the GRoF's aftermath -- so there was nobody else from that Sphere, who had a motive to save them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:17:37 +0100 From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings > It's an interesting idea, with some possibilities... the only difficulty > I can think of (and which, if solved, will help broaden the role-playing) > is how Danobaath (or Thanatos, in a Danobaath-less campaign :) ) discovers > the ratlings, and manages to convert some of them. Maybe he doesn't discover them, but they discover him. Watching a group of human clerics bumming about in the sewers working on plagues and other nasty stuff, they may have seen this as spiritual enlightenment and copied them? gordon Gordon McCormick, System Management UCD Computing Services,Belfield, Dublin 4 ph. +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:29:19 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - More thoughts on Ratlings On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: >On Tue, 30 Mar 1999 BoBoII@aol.com wrote: >> Ratlings . . . .hm . . . . Roh'dants? . . . Verminids? . . . or name them in >> honor of the Lahnkmar rat-creatures? >What? Call them "Hisvets" or something? >:) Actually, I've been using the word 'ratling' the way most Mystarans use 'halfling' - it's what everybody else calls them, so it's a convenient label. :) The best name for themselves that I've come up with so far is "Mrikans"... P.S.: Found something neat the other day. There were two television shows with the same premise called "The Tomorrow People", and in one story-arc was a jackal-like humanoid alien race who tyrannized Earth's ancient Egyptian culture, called the Kulthans. Anybody want to try and somehow tie together the Kulthan and the Hutaaka? :) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 16:43:08 -0600 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: [none] Jacob Skytte wrote: >I seem to recall that Thanatos attempted some sort of rewriting of >history in the HWA-trilogy...I can't seem to remember what it was all >about though... IIRC, Thanatos trapped the other immortals in time....but he did not actually try to re-write history. He just needed a place to "store" those other pesky immortals while he tried to corrupt the HW sun. I think that the last module in the series (can't remember the name right off) described time as a river. PCs that entered the river could see what happened in the past, but could not alter events. The only ones they could interact with were the immortals. John Calvin IBM, San Jose Phone Number (408) 256-7157 Tie Line 276-7157 jtcalvin@us.ibm.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:46:45 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >>That kind of depends on whether the rewriting would have any major >>implications for other races, I think. If Mrikitat dumped the >>ratlings in an unexplored area, where they would have had little >>impact on others, maybe nobody cared or even noticed. Of course if he >>started them near say Glantri (up on the plateau) they may very well >>have had tremendous impact on that culture. Who knows, perhaps they >>have been enslaved by the wizards to serve as lab-assistants or test >>subjects, or whatever... >Maybe if they've been used/employed in labs for generations, then >too-frequent exposure to magic (or the Radiance) could have caused a >mutation among them ... one that causes albinism. In other words, "white >lab-ratlings". :-) If I do have Mrikitat send some ratlings into the past, I've been thinking of him drop them either in the plains in north-central Brun, or somewhere flattish in Davania. Mind you, I haven't done nearly enough research to figure out if there's anything already written about those areas, canon or not. (I'm going to take a look at the List's home page soon, to see what's there...) Hm... would anybody be interested in reading what I come up with for a Mrikan/ratling culture that includes following migrating rat-cattle herds, near-constant sneak raids to steal each others' cattle, fur shaved in decorative designs, and so forth, set either in the Yalu Plains in Brun? Or would you prefer some nomadic "Desert Rats" in one of Davania's large deserts? Or do you have any better ideas? >Given that Time-Immortals learn from their Path that it's best to let >history run its course, I doubt very many of them would endorse the massive >intervention necessary to save Blackmoor. It would also violate the >Immortals' obligation not to interfere with mortals: if the Blackmoorians >wanted to blow themselves up, the Time-Sphere's attitude might've been that >that was THEIR decision, not something the Immortals have any business >countermanding. I just thought of one sort-of-canon way around this... according to the Chronomancer book, there are /alternate histories/, which are really really really hard for any mortal to come across, but which an Immortal might have a chance of creating... From Herve Musseau's Chronomancer text: >>Maelstroms: The maelstroms often form around events of particular >>importance to Mystaran history; it is speculated that some vortices that >>are part of such maelstroms go into alternate Mystaras, where the events >>has turned differently, but no chronomancers or Immortals - with the >>possible exception of Khoronus, who is rumored among Immortals to have >>explored all such alternate worlds and carefully recorded their >>histories - is known for sure to have ventured there, or none has ever >>returned. One mentioned alternate is a Mystara in which the Hollow World is never transformed. A few others might be in which the Red Curse never happened, Blackmoor never sank, or Alphatia never exploded... instead of removing events, another possibility would be to /add/ the events of some of the adventure modules, with either the "PCs" or the villains winning... - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 18:17:46 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 jtcalvin@us.ibm.com wrote: >Jacob Skytte wrote: > >>I seem to recall that Thanatos attempted some sort of rewriting of >>history in the HWA-trilogy...I can't seem to remember what it was all >>about though... > >IIRC, Thanatos trapped the other immortals in time....but he did not >actually try to re-write history. He just needed a place to "store" those >other pesky immortals while he tried to corrupt the HW sun. I think that >the last module in the series (can't remember the name right off) described >time as a river. PCs that entered the river could see what happened in the >past, but could not alter events. The only ones they could interact with >were the immortals. Actually, the PCs /were/ able to alter the past... the module just claimed that if they changed things too much (ie, shoving around continents after Asterius gave them some Immortal power), the other Immortals would set things right. :) Another interesting thing was that the modules said the reason the PCs saw time as the Emerald River was because of the specific "spell" used, and that other spells would show time differently. Any suggestions on what these other spells might be, and how they would show time to mortal minds? (The Chronomancer supplement is probably only one of several methods...) - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:09:18 +1000 (EST) From: Shawn Stanley Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: New HM post on MMB > I'm hoping Stan will archive my Ur-Carnifex post, with the other HM > material, soon enough -- you're still out there, right Stan? -- so > eventually, it should be available on the MML's website for readers who > don't follow the MMB. Major Tom to Ground Control I'm still out here . Yes, the files are there already. I did a major update of my homepage just the other day - just shortly after you posted you files to the MMB in fact, I was waiting for the update for you to post em Sharon :o) So everyone can go to my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 to read all the Hollow Moon stuff as well as everything else, yay. The latest HM post file is called urcarn.html or something for those who want to go directly to it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:24:35 +1000 (EST) From: Shawn Stanley Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: More thoughts on Ratlings > From: Daniel Boese > > It's an interesting idea, with some possibilities... the only difficulty > I can think of (and which, if solved, will help broaden the role-playing) > is how Danobaath (or Thanatos, in a Danobaath-less campaign :) ) discovers > the ratlings, and manages to convert some of them. I might be realing misremembering things here but doesn't Thanatos have an avatar or whatever in Thyatis, in Machetos or something? It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that this guy found out about the ratlings. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:58:41 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: [MYSTARA] - Importing Spelljammers I've been staring at my four Spelljammer boxes (which I've stuffed all my other SJ books into :) ), then my Mystara boxes, and back and forth a bit, and thinking... Where on Mystara could I find a Dolphin Shuttle, or a Whaleship, or a Dragonfly or Wasp, or even a munchkin Vipership or run-of-the-mill Hammership? Who on Mystara would - and, more importantly, /could/ - build this sort of skyship? Considering that the Thyatian and Karameikan governments have only recently acquired skyship technology, mostly based on Alphatian designs, it seems most likely that the only people who'd build Spelljammer-style ships would be high-level, cash-heavy, low-wisdom mages and the people who associate with them - in other words, PCs :), and bands of NPC adventurers (with the occasional lone mage thrown in). I'd like to hear why you disagree... :) Another possibility is to have a couple of Spelljammers crash onto Mystara from out-of-the-blue, inspiring an Aegos-like race-of-nations to capture and control the strange skyships. Hm... if they fall in the Broken Lands, and the shamans and wokani there manage to make the helms (or Dynamos of Flying, or whatever you prefer) work, they'd become menacing enough again to prompt to AC 1020 Orcwars: "Joint Darokinian and Thyatian operations to protect their interests. All-out war pits humans vs. orcs." (I can't really see Thyatis joining Darokin unless the Broken Lands orcs were somehow able to threaten Thyatis itself, which implies the orcs are able to /get to/ Thyatis - implying either skyships or really-really-long tunnels...) Of course, in the Hollow World, there are thousands of high-level mages able to create skyships, and at least a few of them will probably model their designs on insect and underwater-critter forms... What do you think? - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #155 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 1 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 156 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia RE: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon [MYSTARA] - Black Eagle ... a story ... [MYSTARA] - Module on Drüt Island ... [MYSTARA] - Give me your opinion [MYSTARA] - Gazes Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon [MYSTARA] - Some more spells... Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon [MYSTARA] - [ALTERNITY] [fluff] News (fwd) Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Re: [MYSTARA] - [ALTERNITY] [fluff] News (fwd) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:01:20 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia How rare is a good condition Rules Cyclopedia? I already have one but a used book store in my area had one come in and it's for sale at a great price (about $15). Is it rare enough that I should consider picking it up for future reference? One Eye the Dwarf *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:23:09 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > How rare is a good condition Rules Cyclopedia? I already have one but a used VERY rare. I've haven't seen one in ~ 5 years. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:22:05 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Well i dont know about the US situation. But here in australia they are fairly rare. One pops up every now and then but not often. I would say go for it. It is a farely good source book. Nearly all rules placed in one convenient volume. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 > -----Original Message----- > From: GlobalFrog@aol.com [SMTP:GlobalFrog@aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 11:01 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia > > How rare is a good condition Rules Cyclopedia? I already have one but a > used > book store in my area had one come in and it's for sale at a great price > (about $15). Is it rare enough that I should consider picking it up for > future reference? > > One Eye the Dwarf > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:26:36 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia In a message dated 3/31/99 10:24:11 PM EST, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << VERY rare. I've haven't seen one in ~ 5 years. >> Wow...I bought mine about 6 months ago from this same store and now they have ANOTHER one in. Maybe I should "splurge" and get it as a "backup" copy. I got my copy of Hollow World there for $15, Dawn of the Emperors for $15, and WotI for $20 there all in mint condition. Now if I can just find a place that has the Gaz series I will be set. One Eye *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:24:29 -0500 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > How rare is a good condition Rules Cyclopedia? I already have one but a used > book store in my area had one come in and it's for sale at a great price > (about $15). Is it rare enough that I should consider picking it up for > future reference? Get it!!!...I don't even play D&D and have 2 copies of it...i usually let the players keep the older copy with them during play for the more or less complete hex map of the known world. I do use the mass combat system as it is easy and fast. Again....GET IT! - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 04:13:32 -0500 (EST) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > WotI for $20 there all in mint condition. Now if I can just find a place that > has the Gaz series I will be set. If you find that mystical place, tell me. I will buy them out ;) Ethan - only 5 more.... - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 04:24:49 EST From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia In a message dated 4/1/99 4:16:04 AM EST, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << If you find that mystical place, tell me. I will buy them out ;) >> You and me both... :) Are the HW modules (Nightwail etc) any good? One Eye *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:40:33 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Here is the last of the lupin Immortals, written by Agathokles. - ---------- Saimpt Ralon (The Holy Queen) Demipower of Arborea, NG/Initiate of Thought, L PORTFOLIO: Life, good food, fun, health, wealth, farmers, merchants, good producers ALIASES: Sister Grain (tortles) DOMAIN: Arborea/Ossa/Les Iles aux Vignes DATE OF ASCENSION: 954 AC SPONSOR: Korotiku ALLIES: Korotiku, Ka, Calitha, saimpt Mâtin, Saimpt Clébard FOES: Yazak goblinoid pantheon SYMBOL: A golden ear of wheat WAL: Any In her mortal life, Ralon was Princess of Renardy and priestess of Saimpt Renard. During the last years of her father's reign, a considerable number of glantrian lupins sought refuge in Renardy. While many Renardois lupins considered the newcomers as a threat, and tried to have the king outlaw them, Ralon saw them as an opportunity to improve the lupin society. Not only she advised her father to welcome the Glantrians, but she also sponsored their leader, Clébard de Clairvault, into the Renardois nobility. The two became first allies on the nation's political scene, then friends, and in the end they married. After the demise of Ralon's father, she became queen, sharing the leadership of the nation with her husband king Clébard. During their reign, she worked to modify the social structure of Renardy, from tribal to feudal. Her greatest accomplishment was the introduction of the "golden leaves" as a method of social status improvement, redirecting the competition between the lupin clans and the newcomers to a sublimated form, the wine contest. She attained immortality under Korotiku sponsorship in 954, as did her husband. The Church CLERGY: Priests, shamans (tortle tribelands) CAL: Any (generally non-evil) WEAPONS: Any bludgeon ARMOR: Any MAJOR SPHERES: All, Animal, Elemental, Healing, Plants, Weather MINOR SPHERES: Creation, Divination GRANTED POWERS: Create food and wine for 1 person/level, once a day BONUS PROFS: Agriculture, and Winery (Renardy only) or Fishing (Tortles only) DOGMA: Ralon is concerned mostly with the production of food and other trade goods. Hospitality and generosity are the most important virtues for a follower of Saimpt Ralon. DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES: Many followers of Saimpt Ralon are commoners, farmer, traders or peasants. Their work itself is a practice of worship. As for the upper classes, the same applies to the wine making. Even the monasteries of the Congregation of Saimpt Ralon keep extensive farmlands and vineyards. IMPORTANT CEREMONIES/HOLY DAYS: The main ceremony is held after the judgement of wines. In the Abbey of Saimpt Vezy, the winning wine is used for the rites. MAJOR CENTERS OF WORSHIP: Ralon is revered everywhere in Renardy, though she is especially patron of the Noijou region. She is also revered by the tortles. AFFILIATED ORDERS: The Brotherhood of Vintages can be considered an affiliated order of the Ralonite clergy, even though it is an independent board of wine tasters. In fact, the President of the Brotherhood is always the Prior of the Congregation of Saimpt Ralon, and the headquarters are in the Abbey of Saimpt Vézy, were the mortal body of Ralon is entombed. PRIESTLY VESTMENTS: During ceremonies, the priests wear white tunics with bright red surplices, and they wreath their heads with shoots of vine. ADVENTURING GARB: When travelling or working, the priests wear earth-brown tunics instead of their brightly-coloured vestments. Ralonite Spells Saimpt Ralon's Mystical Vine (Alteration, Enchantment) Level: 5 Sphere: Plants Range: 10' Components: V,S,M Duration: permanent Casting Time: 1 day Area of Effect: 1 vine Saving Throw: none Through this spell, the priest can permanently enchant a vine, giving it extraordinary powers. Such vine may be used to produce wine, which has powers similar to that of a potion. A vine whose product was awarded at least seven golden leaves is required. If the spell fails, it can never be cast again on the same vine (which otherwise is not damaged). The result is not certain: the probability* that the correct effect is obtained is twice the priest's level, plus his wisdom score, plus the number of golden leaves awarded to the vine. This chance may be adjusted for more or less powerful effects and for more or less faithful priests. The enchantment requires a one day long ceremony, which cannot be interrupted, lest the spell be ruined. Material components are a potion with the power desired, a pearl of at least 1000 gp value (i.e. at least double the normal value), and the priest's holy symbol. The Mystic Wine obtained from the vine has the same properties as the potion, but duration depends on the ageing of the wine (one turn per year of ageing). The wine may easily been ruined if not properly cared. In this case, the magical properties are gone as well. *Faith and co-operative magic are often used to enhance the success chances. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 01:57:33 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Black Eagle ... a story ... Hi all ... I've heard a story, an old Kelven inhabitant told his child at the evening ... They were talking about Ludvig von Hendricks, the Black Eagle ... << He did made many crimes in his time ... - How does our king punish him, ask a young boy ? - Stephan was not king then and did not punish him as Ludvig was cruel and evil but also he was very clever and can't be accused of anythings. - Let's tell us, pope, please ... say the dozen of youngs sitted all around the old man ... - Well, there's not a lot to say ... but let's see if your inteligence is high enough to see behind the facts ... o In fall 1001, the Black Eagle ask the dwarves of Rockhome for thousands weapons and armors ... the command will be ready for the following summer. o During winter 1001, two galleys of war at the end of their building were stolen in a thyatian port of Hattias. These were asked by Stephan ... his navy won't eolve until new galley will be builded. o In the same time, a horde of looters (goblin thieves) block the duke road beetween Penhaligon and Selenica. o At the beginning of spring : the duke and the Black Eagle send troops to re-open the pass. No battle are fought but the road still stay closed : the looters manage surprisingly to avoid the ducal army. o In the same time a great piracy emerge in the Halav gulf ... Nothings seems to be able to stop it. o End of spring : a troop of mercenaries, "Vanya's Punch" , manage to make free passages threw the gulf : most of trading companies use them as escort. The other stop working. o Begining of summer : althought the efforts of Karameikan and darokan troops, the road is not sure enough to let caravans use it ; dwarves decided to travel threw Darokin to get Akoros. There, they'll use ships to reach the Black Eagle. o A party of adventurers are sent by Korrigan to inquire about who are the pirates ... o Summer : Engaged by the dwarf company, the "Vanya's Punch" escorts the boat, but the boat never arrive at Noircastel -hum Fort Doom ?-. Everybody think the boat was lost durig a battle against the pirates. Dwarf company isn't paid ... and stop any relation with Black Eagle for two years. o Korrigan and the adventurers party decide to set a trap to the pirates by creating a false transportation of weapons ... (with help of the dwarven company and many companies ruined by piracy). They won a naval battle and discover the nest of the pirates, who are in fact the mercenaries "Vanya's Punch". They don't find the loots ... o Fall summer : the duke road re open as the looters seems to have disapeared ... Black Eagle is thanked by the Duke for having helped ... with gold mines near Treshold. - So Kids ... These are the events as we learn them ... 20 years later, what do you conclude ? >> Interessing isn't it ? Marcus ... (one of my scenario/module for lvl 4/6) PS : Cedric ... does this remind you something ? ;^) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 02:47:44 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Module on Drüt Island ... Hi Adam, >If you woundn't mind sending my that information, that would be great. >Thanks. These are set after a dominion has been created on Panago island (X1 island) by characters - - First adventure : Drüt Islands pirates .. aim : stop pirat attacks on trading boats coming on Panago Step 1 : Inquiry on Panago Many tarders comply : They are often attacked by pirates as they come to Panago. Up to now 3 boats disapeared and no one survived ... : as htey are governor of he Island the PC must act/inquire. Many fishermen talk about a huge metalic shark ... [false] Two men (strangers of the island) came to the PCs and ask 2000 GP per boats crossing the sea ... If arrested, they began to talk about a mighty island called Drüt, a fortress ... and die [cause of spell, internal poison or sth like that] A Thyatian boat pass. On the bridge, a slave (slavery is common in Thyatis) ask the PC to be bought : he's was former a trader and was kept with his boat. He's been sold on Kerendas Slave Market ... Step 2 : Inquiry on the continent PCs go to Kerendas. [hope the former slave come with them]. They met a group of Drüt Island pirates => stret fights. Pirates flee the port with their boats. Pursuing on the sea ... Random naval encounters ... [ not developed yet] Great naval battle with 4 ships of Drüt pirates : PCs are captured with their men ... Step 3 : Slaves in Drüt ... PCs are questionned by the counsil of Drüt Island : they'll be slaves ... PCs are splitted beetween the different leaders to different tasks : some are body guards, rowers, gladiators, minor (in mines) or worse ... Pollymedia (a leader) fall in love of a PC (the one who is body guard) and promise to "buy" his old friends... But Klor Moar (another leader) disagree : a cold war begins beetween the clans that become a true guerrilla ... 3 parties : with PC, agianst PC, neutral ... Step 4 : A war ... Pollymedia manage to get all the PCs ... thanks her magic capacities Klor Moar take Pollymedia in spite of the PCs ... What will they do ? Beware their alignement if they went away ... => Great fight on the main ship of Klor Moar who dies in the battle Conclusion : Pollymedia lead the island, sign a peace treaty with the traders of Panago Island and free the PCs. [ A thief may take the place of Klor Moar ...] - - Second one : ... to come later ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:27:34 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Give me your opinion Greetings Mystarans ... This message is near off topic ... and i apologise having disturbed you. I've created an adptation of the Lone Wolf series for our beloved game Dungeons and Dragons (old D&D) wich include (up to now) a new class based on the books, monsters, geography and history. (geography and monsters aren't translated up to now ... but it'll come soon (1 or 2 weeks)) Just want you to give me advices and to show me mistakes i did. Thanks for all of these who'll go to help me ... The site is splitted in 2 (as all my sites) first part French : www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/6275/index.html and English http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Comet/6275/indexa.html Thanks for having read this, Friendly, Marcus Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:25:16 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gazes > Ethan - only 5 more.... If you don't have The Northern Reaches, don't bother missing it. Plusungood. But then again, some of the folks here liked the Golden Khan, so perhaps these are matters of opinion. - Markus, whose opinions are naturally objectively correct! ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:47:33 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Solmyr of the Azure Star wrote: > Here is the last of the lupin Immortals, written by Agathokles. > ---------- Now that the lupin pantheon work is over, I have a few general comments to add. All of the lupin Immortals followed the Path of the Epic Hero. This implies that each of them created a unique legendary weapon. This weapons, as their owners, predate renardois history and folklore, so I think it will be interesting to have some ideas on each. Malinois, and Matin are the warrior Immortals, so their weapons should be the actual weapons used by them during their life. Since Matin used a staff or club, that is also his legendary weapon. Some proposals for Saimpt Matin's Club powers: protect the user and his friends from sleep-inducing magic and poisons, gives a substantial bonus to the user's strength, sleep on every creature it strikes (permanent until dispelled). On the other hand, Clebard and Ralon are the less combative Immortals, so their weapons should be more subtle. For example, Ralon weapon should be connected to her wine-making interests. A Graal-like item could fit the role. As for Saimpt Loup, he is the older Immortal, and his weapon is probably forgotten by all but the most knowledgeable renardois sages. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:02:34 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Some more spells... > I'm working a million different projects nowadays it seems, but the Tome is almost ready for its 4th Edition release to y'all. Anyone have any last minute spells they want included? Y'all have given this pet project of mine alot of support and I hope it keeps up! After this edition, I will be dropping the cleric section, as no new spells have been sent in the last 2 editions, unless y'all want me to keep it for the sake of completeness. Let me know! Jim Bobb > Here I have some spells devised by Thyatian Mages. These are less refined than the Glantrian ones, but they are useful and efficient which reflects the Thyatian way of thinking. Lusinius 's Monstrate - -This ancient spell was invented by the great governor Lucinius, the first king of Thyatis. It was one of the spells that composed the battle arch-mage arsenal. after his demise this spell became very populer and it is now known to many mid- powerful wizards around Brun and even some Alphatian ones. at some points in history the spell was used in the gladiatorial arenas. (IMC I am using this instead of the "catch all" "change other" wich is overpowered and kinda boring) level: 4 range: 20 ft + 10 ft per level of caster duration: 10 turns + one turn per level of the caster AoE: one creature saving throw: none this spell will cause one specific small animal to turn into a terrible monster. after the spell is cast the small creature changes into the monster in one round and is not under the control of the caster. it will react to situations as a normal monster would but will probably be enraged. There is no reason (unless precautions have been made) that the monster wont attack the caster or his friends. the kind of monster created depends on the original creature used. an earthworm becomes a -10HD purple worm. (50 ft long) a baby goat - a Chimera. an eal - a sea dragon (creature catalogue) a spider - Hook beast (Hulker, creature catalogue) a lizard - a Wyvern a kitten - a saber touth tiger Protection From Weather level: 3 range: 0 (around the caster) duration: concentration AoE: 1ft per level around the caster This spell will create a field of protection against the effects of harmful weather conditions magical or mundane. inside the protective field the temperature will remain 25 degrees celsius no matter what the temp is ouside. rain or hail can not penetrate the field nor can sand from sandstorms. the field will remain as long as the caster concentrates. he cannot cast spells or go to sleep. this spell will not protect against fire or magical cold (fireball\ icestorm etc'). more to come Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:03:02 -0500 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Err... hate to quibble, but if Princess Ralon inherited Renardy's throne from her father, wouldn't that only make Clebard the "Queen's Consort", rather than the king? That's how European monarchies usually work things, IIRC -- it's why Prince Philip isn't king of England, right now -- and Renardy is similar to France in most other ways. Sorry about the nitpicking; but I've been irked by the same mistake, before, when the PWAs say Stefan's son-in-law expects he'll be the next "king" of Karameikos. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:46:20 -0500 (EST) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ALTERNITY] [fluff] News (fwd) Caught this on the Alternity ML, and thought you all might get a kick out of it. Happy April Fool's ! - --Frobozz-- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:54:46 -0500 From: Daniel McSorley To: ALTERNITY-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [ALTERNITY] [fluff] News In a surprise move today, WOTC, inc announced it was halting all production of Alternity products, in a move designed to cut competition with their popular card games. "Yes, we know CCGs are not actually roleplaying games," a WOTC spokesman said "But if we buy all the real game companies and discontinue their products, everyone will be forced to play our card games." Further speculations surrounds the mysterious fate of the Alternity designers, and WOTC announced that the "A-Team", as they are known, was being reassigned. Rumors leaked out that they were being forced to design cards for WOTC's popular Magic: The Babbling, but WOTC shot back with "We're not that cruel. Any rumors to that effect are false. In fact, we simply beheaded them, it's much more economical, and we can't be brought up on human rights charges as easily." Rampaging Alternity fans rioted outside the company's Renton, Washington headquarters. Sightings were reported of the mysterious figure known only as mlshoe, a cult figure in a subsect of the Alternity movement (known as "hard sci-fi"), but this reporter was unable to contact him/her/it for comment. The riot quickly broke down, due to the mellow nature of Alternityites. After it was discovered that noone knew who, exactly, at WOTC to blame for the cancellation, the disgruntled mob retired for a spam and butter tart break, after which they were too full to riot. A small black-op mission involving one Nephanor of Fraal and something called a "Mees" succeeded in liberating at least one A-Team member from the guillotine, and rogue designer Bolfgang Waur evaded capture on his own. Both figures have gone underground, and if you ask me where they are, the MIB will come for you. They are definitely not in Canada, since no one knows where that is. Nephanor was unavailable for comment. In liberating Ed Billrich, he also came across numerous papers of a sensitive nature. After a quick reading, he discovered that they were the plans for revealing the true nature of the fraal and klicks. Nephanor's head exploded. "Mees", remaining hero of the guillotine, said something, but I couldn't keep up, so I quit trying. In unrelated news, the seven remaining Birthright fans, who had been on a shower strike (similar to a hunger strike, but scarier) outside WOTC headquarters, died sometime last week, but no difference was apparent in the odor, so nobody noticed until today. - -------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------------------------------- - -------------------------------------------------------------- All of this is a lie, happy april foolishness everybody. - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:42:02 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Err... hate to quibble, but if Princess Ralon inherited Renardy's throne > from her father, wouldn't that only make Clebard the "Queen's Consort", > rather than the king? That's how European monarchies usually work things, > IIRC -- it's why Prince Philip isn't king of England, right now -- and > Renardy is similar to France in most other ways. Is this the case in all European monarchies? (You are right about Britian in any case, and I wouldnt go into old Norwegian ways of becoming a king...) Another Question: Is this also the case for lower nobliity? One of the PCs IMC is planning to marry baroness Arteris Penhaligion. He is only a landed lord himself. Does he become a baron? Does he inherit the name penhaligion? > Sorry about the nitpicking; but I've been irked by the same mistake, > before, when the PWAs say Stefan's son-in-law expects he'll be the next > "king" of Karameikos. Yes, that bothered me aswell.... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 00:44:56 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ALTERNITY] [fluff] News (fwd) On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: > Caught this on the Alternity ML, and thought you all might get a kick out > of it. Happy April Fool's ! Lol :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #156 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 3 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 157 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Re: [MYSTARA] - Some more spells... Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who'sbeenmissing for a w. Re: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:07:38 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon >Is this the case in all European monarchies? The Dutch monarchy works the same (the son/daughter of the current ruler becomes the next king/queen), as it does in most European monarchies (UK, The Netherlands, Belgium). Although I can imagine that there are monarchies that cannot have a queen without a king (in other words: cannot have a woman ruler), like the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg in Europe. Or countries in other parts of the world. >Another Question: Is this also the case for lower nobliity? Interesting question, I would like to know that too. Anybody? >> Sorry about the nitpicking; but I've been >> irked by the same mistake, >> before, when the PWAs say Stefan's >> son-in-law expects he'll be the next >> "king" of Karameikos. If you base the monarchie of Karameikos on a (common) European model, then Stefan's son in law won't be the next king automatically. Kristian Kramer "Courage isn't just a matter of not being frightened, you know. .. It's being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway." The Doctor (Planet of the Daleks, 1973) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 00:31:24 PST From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some more spells... >Here I have some spells devised by Thyatian Mages. > These are less refined than the Glantrian ones, but they are useful and efficient which reflects the Thyatian way of thinking. > >Lusinius 's Monstrate > >-This ancient spell was invented by the great governor Lucinius, the first king of Thyatis. It was one of the spells that composed the battle arch-mage arsenal. after his demise this spell became very populer and it is now known to many mid- powerful wizards around Brun and even some Alphatian ones. at some points in history the spell was used in the gladiatorial arenas. >(IMC I am using this instead of the "catch all" "change other" wich is overpowered and kinda boring) > >level: 4 >range: 20 ft + 10 ft per level of caster >duration: 10 turns + one turn per level of the caster >AoE: one creature >saving throw: none > >this spell will cause one specific small animal to turn into a terrible monster. >after the spell is cast the small creature changes into the monster in one round and is not under the control of the caster. it will react to situations as a normal monster would but will probably be enraged. >There is no reason (unless precautions have been made) that the monster wont attack the caster or his friends. > >the kind of monster created depends on the original creature used. > >an earthworm becomes a -10HD purple worm. (50 ft long) >a baby goat - a Chimera. >an eal - a sea dragon (creature catalogue) >a spider - Hook beast (Hulker, creature catalogue) >a lizard - a Wyvern >a kitten - a saber touth tiger > Very interessing and powerfull ... I'd give it a higher level (such as 6/7) instead of 4 ... >Protection From Weather > >level: 3 >range: 0 (around the caster) >duration: concentration >AoE: 1ft per level around the caster > >This spell will create a field of protection against the effects of harmful weather conditions magical or mundane. inside the protective field the temperature will remain 25 degrees celsius no matter what the temp is ouside. rain or hail can not penetrate the field nor can sand from sandstorms. the field will remain as long as the caster concentrates. he cannot cast spells or go to sleep. this spell will not protect against fire or magical cold (fireball\ icestorm etc'). > It'd be interessing to give bonnus to save vs magical cold/fire ... What happen if a wisard that casted this spell tried to cross a lava river ? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:44:03 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > > > Err... hate to quibble, but if Princess Ralon inherited Renardy's throne > > from her father, wouldn't that only make Clebard the "Queen's Consort", > > rather than the king? That's how European monarchies usually work things, > > IIRC -- it's why Prince Philip isn't king of England, right now -- and > > Renardy is similar to France in most other ways. Inheritance law in France was different from the British one, AFAIK. > > Is this the case in all European monarchies? (You are right about Britian > in any case, and I wouldnt go into old Norwegian ways of becoming a > king...) No, it isn't. In some countries female descendants couldn't inherit the throne at all (Salic law). In others, female heirs only passed their feuds to their husbands (IIRC, the Duchy of Burgundy had a similar law, and so it was also for the Kingdom of Sicily, at least before the french domination). > > Another Question: Is this also the case for lower nobliity? One of the PCs > IMC is planning to marry baroness Arteris Penhaligion. He is only a landed > lord himself. Does he become a baron? Does he inherit the name > penhaligion? > > > Sorry about the nitpicking; but I've been irked by the same mistake, > > before, when the PWAs say Stefan's son-in-law expects he'll be the next > > "king" of Karameikos. > > Yes, that bothered me aswell.... The Karameikos Gaz says that the Duke and the Duchess have the same power. So I don't see why Stefan's son-in-law shouldn't be king. However, I think that Queen's Consorts are not so common in the Known World. The Savage Coast may be different, but I believe that a British-like law should apply only in Bellayne. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:01:49 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [IP] Saimpt Ralon >Err... hate to quibble, but if Princess Ralon inherited Renardy's throne >from her father, wouldn't that only make Clebard the "Queen's Consort", >rather than the king? That's how European monarchies usually work things, >IIRC -- it's why Prince Philip isn't king of England, right now -- and >Renardy is similar to France in most other ways. > Well, that probably depends on how forceful/able to exercise influence the "consort" is. Witness Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain (i.e. nobody referred to Ferdinand as "queen's consort"). There are numerous other examples; though I can't think of any right now, I can look them up. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 19:58:29 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > Sure, there are hundreds of 36th level M-U's and clerics in thyatis, > but just how many of them do you think there are in the Thyatian > army? And if they're not in the army what would be their interest in > fighting Thothia? The few 36th-level characters I've had or DM'ed > were far more interested in personal matters, not in helping out > the emperor of Thyatis or what-have-you, just because he's in some > kind of trouble with expanding his empire... As I said: "Alphatian Disease"! Perhaps the clerics and wizards who did not do anything are not too much favored by the commoners after the war. > As for quelling the plague, perhaps Thothia's clerics had an immortal > or two lend a hand. Dispelling immortal magic is hard. And of course > the Thothian clerics might very well count a few 36th-level > characters among their ranks, and they'd have a more immediate > interest in stirring up trouble for the Thyatians conquering terrain > right next door. Rathanos? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:02:31 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > But these clerics are able to heal the common people who have been > afflicted with the plague. As much as they fear for themselves, being > lawful they have an obligation to help out where they're able to > help, and really, should the Glantrian aristocracy put them to the > stake, the general populace would certainly be mighty pissed off at > seeing their saviors treated like that! And other would come to get a lot of money, wouldn't they? > So your cleric wouldn't feel obligated to helping others, and I'm > sure he/she isn't lawful... He would, but he isn't indeed. As we play AD&D alignments, he is CG. So he would go, even if he would have fear, but he would sack a big payment for helping. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:05:43 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics > It's a matter of faith : those who have a true faith won't fear for > themselves but for other. "Hey, quit babbling about things which you don't have the faintest idea about!" You can see, that my cleric has really enough of those lawful good guys. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:12:31 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > My view on this is that, while many Alphatian commoners might WANT to be > clerics, the Immortals can tell if a person is genuinely faithful -- i.e. > is aspiring to clericy out of love and reverence for their patron -- or is > just trying to become a noble. Even Entropics aren't going to invest a > bunch of nobodies with their power, if all they're in it for is the chance > to become aristocrats ... NOT to serve the Immortal patron's interests. Exactly! But never forget: An immortal might have a "special" idea when accepting a non-faithful being. (I hope I'm not too boring in repeating this.) > Becoming a cleric demands sincere faith, and there's no faith involved in > whining: "Hey, God: Gimme spells, I wanna be an aristocrat!" In fact, the > failure of priesthoods to admit all-and-sundry might be why the commoners > of Alphatia think so little of religion; they might think the Immortals > have shut them out of the aristocracy, for no reason. I must admit that I don't have understood this thought. Please could you repeat it? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:24:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > >My own campaign started with a short scenario which ended when the > heroes failed to prevent the summoning of a sea demon, and the demon > killed the heroes. Luckily the players enjoyed it and have created new > characters for further gaming. > > Was it Chtulu ? Heh, no. Im not _that_ evil. But the scenario was inspired by a Call of Cthulhu scenario from a Convention I was at last year. :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:27:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Tue, 30 Mar 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: > What masochistic players you have, for them to have enjoyed death! Hehe, rpgs are good for group therapy ;P > Actually, I have been slowly incorporating things from the Savage Coast > into my campaign in Karameikos: wandering bands of lupins, raiding > parties of aranea. Eventually I will be adding missions to and from the > Coast. So far, they are liking things, and its less lethal than yours was Considered introducing smokepowder weapons to your regular Mystara campaign? Ive toyed with the idea of modernizing all of mystara to a 1600s campaign.... Blasphemy? :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:53:46 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, [iso-8859-1] Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: >Considered introducing smokepowder weapons to your regular Mystara >campaign? Ive toyed with the idea of modernizing all of mystara to a 1600s >campaign.... > >Blasphemy? :) Actually, there was an article in Dragon #199 all about intrudicing gunpowder weapons using oD&D into the Old/Known World... :) Besides, Mystara seems to have a "1500s" flavour to me right now anyway, what with all of the 'modern' inventions, gnomish tinkering, nation-state politics, long-distance transport, and so forth. - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:18:50 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who'sbeenmissing for a w. In a message dated 28/03/99 21:34:44 GMT, you write: >>Conversely, I think the HM setting is fascinating. Although I find the idea of >>a nearly-eternal night as uncomfortable as an eternal mid-day sun (that is to >>say, I couldn't imagine living in either) I was absolutely enthralled by every >>chapter in the HM saga, and can't wait for the next bit. It's beautifully >>written; more so than a number of "canon" supplements, IMHO. >> >>Carl Q. >****blush**** Hey, credit where credit is due! I only wish I could begin to approach your knowledge and invention (not to mention that of most of the talents on this list)! So, don't keep me in suspense (suspenders? sorry, old joke...) - when's the next installment due? Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 16:11:15 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New HM post on MMB In a message dated 30/03/99 17:07:12 GMT, you write: << I'm reluctant to send it here, or to individuals, because it's such a humungous monster of a post. >> I'll say! ;-) Sharon, I've just finished reading it. Fantastic! Quick, quick, get off the 'net and get back to your word processor! Your fans (well. me, anyway) are howling at the doors for more HM!!! Ahem. Sorry. But I'm (semi) serious; like I said in my earlier, blush-inducing post, this easily equals the best of the Gazetteers IMHO, and is considerably better than many. Please keep writing, and I promise you will have a devoted fan for life! Carl Q (getting up from the grovelling position - plays havoc with my arthritis! ;-)) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 21:33:30 -0500 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics At 08:12 PM 3/31/99 +0200, you wrote: > >> Becoming a cleric demands sincere faith, and there's no faith involved in >> whining: "Hey, God: Gimme spells, I wanna be an aristocrat!" In fact, >the >> failure of priesthoods to admit all-and-sundry might be why the commoners >> of Alphatia think so little of religion; they might think the Immortals >> have shut them out of the aristocracy, for no reason. > >I must admit that I don't have understood this thought. >Please could you repeat it? Commoners who tried to become priests just to become aristocrats, would not get spells. They might seize upon the easier explanation that somehow said god doesn't like commoners, instead of said god not wanting clerics with impure intentions. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:40:10 EST From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara Hello everybody, I am new here and I was just wondering what AD&D products are made for Mystara, I have these already Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure Glantri: Kingdom of Magic Dawn of the Emperors (D&D) Champions of Mystara (D&D) Savage Baronies Red Steel Campaign Setting I was just wondering, are there any AD&D products for Rockhome and the Hin kingdom and if there are, anyone know where I can get those products or any other for that matter? I would perfer AD&D but I would settle for D&D. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #157 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 4 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 158 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Re: [MYSTARA] - Some more spells Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea [MYSTARA] - New Islands Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Re: [MYSTARA] - New Islands Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:43:28 EST From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Idea Hello everybody and I just wanted to say something, I like Dragonlance, Red Steel, and Mystara and I had an idea. Since I like all of them, what would one think if I put them all on the same world? Any Ideas? They would all be close together and would trade, I like the idea and since they are all out of print maybe it could help revitalize those settings. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:29:07 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Some more spells >Very interessing and powerfull ... I'd give it a higher level (such as 6/7) instead of 4 ... I'd thought about giving it a higher level but than I saw that the original spell (change other\alter other?) could do the same, even more powerful and multifunctional. >It'd be interessing to give bonnus to save vs magical cold/fire ... What happen if a wisard that casted this spell tried to cross a lava river ? I would say the spell can protect you from the heat near a lava river but not fron contact with the lava. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 09:41:37 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea (Disclaimer: Nearly any idea is a good idea if it's made well, and naturally one of the best tools of dungeon mastering is mixing and crossing over genres and of course IYC you can do whatever you want, bu) > Hello everybody and I just wanted to say something, I like Dragonlance, Red > Steel, and Mystara and I had an idea. Since I like all of them, what would > one think if I put them all on the same world? Any Ideas? They would all be > close together and would trade, I like the idea and since they are all out of > print maybe it could help revitalize those settings. Sounds like desecrating a good world. Inter-continental adventuring is anyway so slow that few campaigns effectively go from one continent to another. Paladine and Rad don't fix together. (Dwarves of Rockhome (D&D) and the Five Shires (D&D) are the books you want, but I don't know from where to find them. I will recommend one net-shop If I will eventually get the stuff I ordered...) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 10:12:23 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Considered introducing smokepowder weapons to your regular Mystara campaign? Ive toyed with the idea of modernizing all of mystara to a 1600s campaign.... Blasphemy? :) I tried that. I dont advise it. When doing the Saga of the Shadow Lord the PCs didnt actually fight Landryn Teriak - they blew up Gereth Minar with lots of smokepowder they had stashed in a bag of holding. Its not the guns that are the problem, its the explosives... 1000 charges of smokepowder can erase anything! Though I still the Savage Coast, with smokepowder and all. The Known World is a different style of play thouhg, i dont think explosives has much place in it... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:31:52 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Rob wrote: > I tried that. I dont advise it. When doing the Saga of the Shadow Lord the > PCs didnt actually fight Landryn Teriak - they blew up Gereth Minar with > lots of smokepowder they had stashed in a bag of holding. > > Its not the guns that are the problem, its the explosives... 1000 charges > of smokepowder can erase anything! I think this could be solved by replacing smokepowder with gunpowder. Im no expert on this, but I dont think gunpowder is all that efficient for blowing things up. You'd need dynamite and that wasnt invented untill the 19th C IIRC. And im aiming for a 1600s style campaign. In any case smoke- or gunpowder should be _expensive_ > Though I still the Savage Coast, with smokepowder and all. The Known World > is a different style of play thouhg, i dont think explosives has much place > in it... Gunpowder will certainly change the style of the setting. But thats not neccesarily a bad thing. Castle Falkenstein anyone? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hello everybody and I just wanted to say something, I like Dragonlance, Red > Steel, and Mystara and I had an idea. Since I like all of them, what would > one think if I put them all on the same world? Any Ideas? They would all be > close together and would trade, I like the idea and since they are all out of > print maybe it could help revitalize those settings. I must agree with Marcus on this one. The strength of each setting lays in the fact that they are different from eachother. Red Steel and Mystara are ofcourse the same setting, but Dragonlance should probably be left out. You could borrow elements from DL if you like. Or Ansalon could replace Skothar, but im not really in favour of such a thing. If I were to combine the two it would be in a SpellJammer or Planescape campaign... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:35:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hello everybody and I just wanted to say something, I like Dragonlance, Red > Steel, and Mystara and I had an idea. Since I like all of them, what would > one think if I put them all on the same world? Any Ideas? They would all be > close together and would trade, I like the idea and since they are all out of > print maybe it could help revitalize those settings. I must agree with Marcus on this one. The strength of each setting lays in the fact that they are different from eachother. Red Steel and Mystara are ofcourse the same setting, but Dragonlance should probably be left out. You could borrow elements from DL if you like. Or Ansalon could replace Skothar, but im not really in favour of such a thing. If I were to combine the two it would be in a SpellJammer or Planescape campaign... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:41:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara On Sat, 3 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure > Glantri: Kingdom of Magic > Dawn of the Emperors (D&D) > Champions of Mystara (D&D) > Savage Baronies > Red Steel Campaign Setting > > I was just wondering, are there any AD&D products for Rockhome and the Hin > kingdom and if there are, anyone know where I can get those products or any > other for that matter? I would perfer AD&D but I would settle for D&D. There are no AD&D products for Rockhome or the Five Shires. For the D&D game, there was one Gazetteer for each of the Known World's countries. Including one called "The Dwarves of Rockhome" and "the Five Shires" describing the countries. To find these inquire on rec.games.marketplace or visit some of the webshops. www.dragonthrove.com might have some. Also you can find more Red Steel stuff on TSRs website. It is listed under SAVAGE COAST. (Dont know the URL). They have those you have plus one book for the Orcs Head Peninsula and a Monsterous Compendium for the entire Savage Coast. Both can be downloaded for free. If you cant find them, ask again and I'll help you. Sincerely, Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:47:10 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Daniel Boese wrote: > Actually, there was an article in Dragon #199 all about intrudicing > gunpowder weapons using oD&D into the Old/Known World... :) Yep, im familiar with that one. Dont think it was very popular among the majority of this list though.. (in spite of the fact that it was written by Bruce....You are the heretics!! :) ) > Besides, Mystara seems to have a "1500s" flavour to me right now anyway, > what with all of the 'modern' inventions, gnomish tinkering, nation-state > politics, long-distance transport, and so forth. I agree on the 1500s flavour, with a few exceptions(Northern Reaches, Athruagin Clans etc.). the 1500s was also the last period of the warrior knights. After this they disappeared due to lower economies, mercenaries, professional soldiers and improved weapons (Longbows, crossbows and gunpowder weapons.) Funny that Mystara still has knights even though it has all these factors(except gunpowder)..... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:54:39 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? I think this could be solved by replacing smokepowder with gunpowder. Im no expert on this, but I dont think gunpowder is all that efficient for blowing things up. You'd need dynamite and that wasnt invented untill the 19th C IIRC. And im aiming for a 1600s style campaign. In any case smoke- or gunpowder should be _expensive_ Mmm. Gunpowder is quite adequate for blowing things up, if its in a confined space... tho not as good as dynamite, of course :-) it was used to destroy stone bridges and the like. Also, how much damage would you say 50 charges could inflict to someone? thats only 50 ounces, just a few pounds of the stuff. And in standard rulz (hopelessly inadequate for gunpowder, really) that would inflict 50d2 damage (ouch) in a pretty sizable blast radius.... Thats not a poke at you, im just interested on how you would deal with this sort of thing... > Though I still the Savage Coast, with smokepowder and all. The Known World > is a different style of play thouhg, i dont think explosives has much place > in it... Gunpowder will certainly change the style of the setting. But thats not neccesarily a bad thing. Castle Falkenstein anyone? Oh, I agree there... :-) Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:29:56 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? > Actually, there was an article in Dragon #199 all about intrudicing > gunpowder weapons using oD&D into the Old/Known World... :) Yep, im familiar with that one. Dont think it was very popular among the majority of this list though.. (in spite of the fact that it was written by Bruce....You are the heretics!! :) ) Was that the article with Cimmaron Six Shooters? Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:03:57 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Continent names At 02.07 13/03/99 -0500, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >Call it a pet peeve, but I tend to think there's already BEEN too many >Mystaran places -- cities, nations, landforms, whatever -- named after >people and/or Immortals! Sure, it's a handy way to account for a >place-name, to say it's named for somebody ... but when that becomes the >"default" explanation for EVERYTHING that's jotted on a map, we get stuck >with abominations of nomenclature (like 'Rafielton' :-P) IMO Rafielton is a nice name, especially if compared to * City, where * stands for Darokin/Glantri/Thyatis... BTW: I'm slowly catching up with the MML (I have about a month worth of messages), but I'm back. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:29:27 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The New Mystara Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hello everybody, I am new here and I was just wondering what AD&D products > are made for Mystara, I have these already > > Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure > Glantri: Kingdom of Magic > Dawn of the Emperors (D&D) > Champions of Mystara (D&D) > Savage Baronies > Red Steel Campaign Setting > > I was just wondering, are there any AD&D products for Rockhome and the Hin > kingdom and if there are, anyone know where I can get those products or any > other for that matter? I would perfer AD&D but I would settle for D&D. Well there is not much AD&D on Mystara....first you should get the Poor Wizards Almanacs...the first 2 were in D&D format...the third one was in AD&D. There was a 4th almanac, Joshuan's Almanac, printed in AD&D but was not as well written. These almanacs give basic info on every know nation on Mystara, events for a year, NPC info, and a LOT of miscellaneous stuff too. TSR published a Gazetteer series for D&D...one for each nation of the Known World.There was a Monstrous Compendium for Mystara also. As for D&D...the Hollow World box set details the inner world of Mystara and The Champions of Mystara details Sind, The Plain of Fire and The Serpent Peninsula. TSR put the Savage Coast and a few bits about Mystara online at.... http://www.tsr.com/ADND/Downloads.html and look at Shawn's site at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ it is the archive of this list and the Mystara Massage Board. If you (or anyone) wants a list of Mystara links I have collected, send me a private E-mail and i'll get them off to you. And lastly....backlist and used games can be bought at.... http://store.wizards.com/ http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://titan-games.com/titansite/rpg_items/SellPub.html http://www.rpgnetmarket.com/ Hope this helps a bit. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:08:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel Boese Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Rob wrote: > >> Actually, there was an article in Dragon #199 all about intrudicing >> gunpowder weapons using oD&D into the Old/Known World... :) > >Was that the article with Cimmaron Six Shooters? No, the Cimmaron Six Shooters were repeating crossbows which appeared in one of the Princess Ark episodes. The article I mentioned was by Bruce Heard, but wasn't part of the Princess Ark or Known World Grimoire series. - -- Daniel Boese, the agnostic Gnostic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 17:49:01 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > I agree on the 1500s flavour, with a few exceptions(Northern Reaches, > Athruagin Clans etc.). the 1500s was also the last period of the > warrior knights. After this they disappeared due to lower economies, > mercenaries, professional soldiers and improved weapons (Longbows, > crossbows and gunpowder weapons.) Funny that Mystara still has knights > even though it has all these factors(except gunpowder)..... It was gunpowder that put an end to knights in the real world, when guns came along you could shoot right through the armor witch made it more of a hindrance, and with no armor....no armored knights riding into battle on their fiery steed. Gun/Smoke powder works in the Savage Coast, no armored knights. It might dramatically change the tone of the Known World...."Who needs a mage in the party....I have my boomstick!" - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:05:05 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea In a message dated 4/4/99 12:36:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << Or Ansalon could replace Skothar >> Can I ask you a question, what's Skothar, and another thing, when I said that I was linking them I meant Ansalon (and, maybe Taladas) would replace one of those continents. I have Champions of Mystara It has something that looks like a map of the world, but that book (and most other D&D books in general) are not as easy to use as the AD&D second edition books, so could someone please clue me in????? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:08:37 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Islands Hello everybody, I was looking at my map of Mystara in the Dawn of the Emperors boxed set and I noticed this large area next to the Heldranic Lands in water that was absolutely empty and I was thinking about adding some islands there that would be celtic, it seems rather cold in that area, but it seems that most of the space of the new world is dominated by Alphatia (That one empire is bigger than the rest of the known world combined!), so I was just wondering. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:31:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/4/99 12:36:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no > writes: > > << Or Ansalon could replace > Skothar >> > > Can I ask you a question, what's Skothar, and another thing, when I said that > I was linking them I meant Ansalon (and, maybe Taladas) would replace one of > those continents. I have Champions of Mystara It has something that looks > like a map of the world, but that book (and most other D&D books in general) > are not as easy to use as the AD&D second edition books, so could someone > please clue me in????? Skothar is a large continent in the far east. It has been partially developed. Some people on this list have been working on developing Skothar into a Mystaran version of Asia. World maps can be found in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, Hollow World boxed set, the old D&D Master Rules(some names are "wrong"), and Champions of Mystara. IIRC there is a migration map in Champions of Mystara. Skothar is the continent in the far east of the northern hemisphere. Another recent email mentioned places on wwww where you can buy old D&D stuff. You say that Champions isnt as easy to use as AD&D books. If you could explain what you mean, I might be able to help. Sincerely, Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:34:23 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Islands On Sun, 4 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hello everybody, I was looking at my map of Mystara in the Dawn of the > Emperors boxed set and I noticed this large area next to the Heldranic Lands > in water that was absolutely empty and I was thinking about adding some > islands there that would be celtic, it seems rather cold in that area, but it > seems that most of the space of the new world is dominated by Alphatia (That > one empire is bigger than the rest of the known world combined!), so I was > just wondering. Are you referring to the Isle of Dawn? Celtic type cultures sounds interesting, IMC the northern kingdoms of the Isle are celtic-ish. Oh, and If you dont like Alphatia, that empire is destroyed (actually just moved elsewhere) in AC 1009 (AY 2009). Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 00:42:16 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Jerry Hovenanian wrote: > Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > > I agree on the 1500s flavour, with a few exceptions(Northern Reaches, > > Athruagin Clans etc.). the 1500s was also the last period of the > > warrior knights. After this they disappeared due to lower economies, > > mercenaries, professional soldiers and improved weapons (Longbows, > > crossbows and gunpowder weapons.) Funny that Mystara still has knights > > even though it has all these factors(except gunpowder)..... > It was gunpowder that put an end to knights in the real world, when guns > came along you could shoot right through the armor witch made it more of a > hindrance, and with no armor....no armored knights riding into battle on their > fiery steed. Actually you are wrong. Crossbows and Longbows could also punch through the armor, and in the early days of gunpowder, those bows had a greater rate of fire than guns. Also, the main reason why the knights disappeared was the introduction of professional soldiers, which marked the end of feudalism. In addition to this, a knights equipment was extremely expensive, and the economic crisis in the 1300s caused major financial problems for knights all over europe. (This seems to be left out of the xD&D games as anyone can buy a horse and a plate armour...it wasnt that easy in the real world.) > Gun/Smoke powder works in the Savage Coast, no armored knights. It might > dramatically change the tone of the Known World...."Who needs a mage in the > party....I have my boomstick!" IMO guns should be very expensive and available only to musketeers and the like. Also, the first guns will be clumsy and ineffective compared to a magic missile spell. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:48:58 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea In a message dated 4/4/99 6:33:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << You say that Champions isnt as easy to use as AD&D books. If you could explain what you mean, I might be able to help. >> I just mean that, first of all, the text is smaller, they always seem to make mention to something I don't have and lastly, I bout Dawn of the Emperors and Champions of Mystara from a shady looking guy at K-B toys for about two dollars, and they're in pretty bad shape (there is a huge indent on the champions of Mystara box, and Dawn of the emperors' books aren't exactly rectangluar...) but I really don't mind too much, it's just that I wish some product out there converted the stats from the books into AD&D (some of them are rreally tricky, especially alignment, like empress 'what's-her-name' of Alphatia, I was thinking maybe true neutral or neutral good, but I'm not sure, and her son, what type of chaotic would he be?) Oh and one more thing, in champions of mystara they have Leo of Le Nerviens as a sky gnome, what are sky gnomes anyway? I mean, I they actual text itself isn't so bad, it's just translating the stats (I've tried using the conversion in the back of Dawn of the emperors, but I could never get it too work right...hmmm...) Oh and one more question, according to the back of DotE, Haldemar of Haaken (captain of the princess ark) should be about level 16, but he should also have access to ninth level spells, which means he would be about level 18 or 21, as the book lists him. One more thing, I have decided to link Mystara and Dragonlance by the ship 'The Princess Ark' by making Krynn and Mystara two planets at the same distance form the sun but at opposites sides at all times (i.e. One would have to travel into space to transverse the void) and since ansalon is in the southern hemisphere, and the known world in the northern, this could explain the differences in the night sky. Personally, I will have the two linked by the Princess Ark and by the Tinker Gnome Spaceships (which, actually, have been detailed in Dragonlance outside of the Spelljammer, in the novel where Kitiara and Sturm travel with a bunch of gnomes to one of krynn's moons, in case anyone out there is also Dragonlance fans). I was also thinking about putting Cerilla there as well (I already have a Hallow World in Cerilla [Home of the Birthright Campaign Setting] and I am planning on making one in Dragonlance. So that's my story, any questions, comments, etc.? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #158 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 159 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Islands Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) RE: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 18:50:16 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Islands In a message dated 4/4/99 6:35:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << Are you referring to the Isle of Dawn? Celtic type cultures sounds interesting, IMC the northern kingdoms of the Isle are celtic-ish. Oh, and If you dont like Alphatia, that empire is destroyed (actually just moved elsewhere) in AC 1009 (AY 2009). >> No I am not, in the map there really is gap that is listed as being controlled by the Heldanic or whatever knights, and it's completely empty. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 01:31:38 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? >Actually you are wrong. >Crossbows and Longbows could also punch through the armor, and >in the >early days of gunpowder, those bows had a greater rate of fire than >guns. >Also, the main reason why the knights disappeared was the >introduction of >professional soldiers, which marked the end of feudalism. >In addition to this, a knights equipment was extremely expensive, and >the >economic crisis in the 1300s caused major financial problems for >knights >all over europe. (This seems to be left out of the xD&D games as >anyone >can buy a horse and a plate armour...it wasnt that easy in the real >world.) Perhaps more importantly, it was far easier to train a musketeer than a longbowman... Also, after twelve months of hard campaigning, living on starvation rations, and generally having a hard time, it became hard to pull a longbow... No problem for the musketeers tho! > Gun/Smoke powder works in the Savage Coast, no armored knights. It might > dramatically change the tone of the Known World...."Who needs a mage in the > party....I have my boomstick!" >IMO guns should be very expensive and available only to musketeers >and the >like. Also, the first guns will be clumsy and ineffective compared to a >magic missile spell. The first guns would probably be pretty darn lethal... Another thing - who will control the production of smokepowder/gunpowder? Presumably mages, as they have cornered the alchemy/chemistry profession. Presumably a lot of mages wont be too happy with the idea of distributing new weapons to the uneducated commoners, so maybe there would be some resistance there. Just a thought... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 03:23:30 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Rob wrote: > Perhaps more importantly, it was far easier to train a musketeer than a > longbowman... Also, after twelve months of hard campaigning, living on > starvation rations, and generally having a hard time, it became hard to pull > a longbow... No problem for the musketeers tho! This is true. But remember that by the time the institution of Musketeers was established, knights had long gone lost their function. > >IMO guns should be very expensive and available only to musketeers >and the > >like. Also, the first guns will be clumsy and ineffective compared to a > >magic missile spell. > > The first guns would probably be pretty darn lethal... I dont know about this. Realistically speaking, a person hit by a bullet or an arrow, shouldnt expect to survive. The reasoning behind various weapon values from weapons in AD&D is hard to grasp. I think two factors apply. 1) the force produced by the weapon. (Larger, heavier weapons cause more damage. and 2) accuracy. (longer or more accurate weapons have a greater chance of hitting something vital. For guns 1) would apply, but the first guns would be vastly less accurate than bows and crossbows. I see no reason why a gun should do all that much more damage than a crossbow. The crossbows should however do much more damage. Id say both should do 2d6 or maybe 2d8 in damage. Pistols would have a ridicolously short range, while rifles might work better at long ranges. > Another thing - who will control the production of smokepowder/gunpowder? > Presumably mages, as they have cornered the alchemy/chemistry profession. > Presumably a lot of mages wont be too happy with the idea of distributing > new weapons to the uneducated commoners, so maybe there would be some > resistance there. Depends on whether the mages realize what they are doing. Also, the guns would probably be sold to kings and nobles. I kind of like the idea of having dwarves as pioneers on the gunpowder front.... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:10:03 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. There are a variety of reasons ending the era of knighthood, most of which you folks have already pointed out. Many historians hold that the last big battle with knights was fought somewhere in Normandy, where English longbowmen massacred the French feudal knights. Other reasons include muskets (& arquebuses) and thrusting swords. > > Perhaps more importantly, it was far easier to train a musketeer than a > > longbowman... Also, after twelve months of hard campaigning, living on > > starvation rations, and generally having a hard time, it became hard to pull > > a longbow... No problem for the musketeers tho! There are slight differences with the modern firearms and muskets. One: loading a musket happens to take minutes of cleaning and reloading. Two, shooting musket makes a horrible cloud of smoke, battles of Napoleon were often fought in practical visibility of zero. Three: an arquebus is 'accurate' at ranges of max 30 meters or so... Four: even thick mist can make a nasty surprise to an army, if the gunpowder gets wet. Five: arquebus is notoriously eager to blow up with little or no reason. It is no easy way of combat. Arming up musketeers is hell of an operation. > I dont know about this. Realistically speaking, a person hit by a bullet > or an arrow, shouldnt expect to survive. The reasoning behind various > weapon values from weapons in AD&D is hard to grasp. I think two factors > apply. 1) the force produced by the weapon. (Larger, heavier weapons cause > more damage. and 2) accuracy. (longer or more accurate weapons have a > greater chance of hitting something vital. Three factors. The type of bacteria infecting the wound was the most crucial. > I see no reason why a gun should do all that much more damage than a > crossbow. I agree that crossbow should do much more damage, and I use weapon mastery system IMC just to boost up the damage values strongly. But musket does a sort of crushing damage, firing a heavy pellet that hitting one's chest crushes a lot of entrails. Not to say that crossbow wasn't deadly, also. It is overkill ratios we are speaking of; and musked does more overkill than crossbow. The renaissance cannon was entirely different matter. Fielding a cannon was EXPENSIVE, as the crew included a master artillerist, few apprentices and a squad of soldiers to haul cast-iron cannon along with stones or cast-iron cannonballs and gunpowder. Shooting a cannon was a complicated operation as the cannon must be aimed, secured on place, loaded (by gunpowder first and then somehow levering the cannonball in), fusing, igniting and running away! A heavy cannon explosion is *deadly*. And why did they do it? There is only one reason worth creating cannons and fielding it; as they were incredibly slow, heavy, expensive and inaccurate. As catapults maybe grind a keep to dust in months, cannons do the same feat in a few weeks. (Scoring a hit to an army with a cannon is practically impossible). > Håvard - Markus P.S. But tell me how come there are armored knights or any kind of armies, as there are Glantrians and Alphatians who blast them with fireballs? ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:43:17 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? >I dont know about this. Realistically speaking, a person hit by a bullet >or an arrow, shouldnt expect to survive. The reasoning behind various >weapon values from weapons in AD&D is hard to grasp. I think two >factors >apply. 1) the force produced by the weapon. (Larger, heavier >weapons cause >more damage. and 2) accuracy. (longer or more accurate weapons >have a >greater chance of hitting something vital. >For guns 1) would apply, but the first guns would be vastly less >accurate >than bows and crossbows. I see no reason why a gun should do all >that >much more damage than a crossbow. The crossbows should however >do much >more damage. Id say both should do 2d6 or maybe 2d8 in damage. >Pistols >would have a ridicolously short range, while rifles might work better at >long ranges. Oh I agree. I meant lethal to the user :-) Though if you use the AD&D rulz on muskets and such, they are pretty darn lethal as well... The Mighty Fortress book is the only HR series book I found useful - when used with Red Steel :-) >Depends on whether the mages realize what they are doing. Also, >the guns >would probably be sold to kings and nobles. >I kind of like the idea of having dwarves as pioneers on the >gunpowder >front.... Seems quite likely, really. "I like to blow stuff up!" "Aye, laddie!" Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:49:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. > > Perhaps more importantly, it was far easier to train a musketeer than a > > longbowman... Also, after twelve months of hard campaigning, living on > > starvation rations, and generally having a hard time, it became hard to pull > > a longbow... No problem for the musketeers tho! There are slight differences with the modern firearms and muskets. One: loading a musket happens to take minutes of cleaning and reloading. Two, shooting musket makes a horrible cloud of smoke, battles of Napoleon were often fought in practical visibility of zero. Three: an arquebus is 'accurate' at ranges of max 30 meters or so... Four: even thick mist can make a nasty surprise to an army, if the gunpowder gets wet. Five: arquebus is notoriously eager to blow up with little or no reason. All of which make the musket inferior to the bow in some reason (AD&D arquebuses certainly are inferior to longbows, anyway). However, none of the above reflects time spent training the army. You have just listed deficiencies in the weapon, but the fact is any old joe with minimal training could fire a musket. Firing a longbow (well, that is) could take a lifetime of practice... All you have said above is... bad accuracy, slow rate of fire, unreliability and poor visibility. All true, but none of this would affect the difficulty to use the weapon, or the difficulty in raising the troops. Like Windows 95, the merits of muskets may be debated, but they were just too easy an option... :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:45:06 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. > One: loading a musket happens to take minutes of cleaning and reloading. > Two, shooting musket makes a horrible cloud of smoke, battles of Napoleon > were often fought in practical visibility of zero. Three: an arquebus is > 'accurate' at ranges of max 30 meters or so... Four: even thick mist can > make a nasty surprise to an army, if the gunpowder gets wet. Five: > > All of which make the musket inferior to the bow in some reason (AD&D > arquebuses certainly are inferior to longbows, anyway). However, none of > the above reflects time spent training the army. You have just listed > deficiencies in the weapon, but the fact is any old joe with minimal Well, on 30 meters or so it is not very hard to hit an army regiment with a longbow. "Point 'n' click -interface" of muskets is handy, but they were not really a long range weapon easily used. The musketeers usually organized in two files, and fired to the general direction of the enemy (as did longbowmen) -- which was *very* inaccurate. Often there were more dead in the ranks of shooters than in the ranks of targets! Muskets were expensive! Longbowmen were also, but the point is that it is no simple matter to reorganize tactics and start a new form of war out of scratch. > All you have said above is... bad accuracy, slow rate of fire, unreliability > and poor visibility. All true, but none of this would affect the difficulty > to use the weapon, or the difficulty in raising the troops. Only the difficulty of getting the enemy dead. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:55:07 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. In a message dated 4/5/99 6:30:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: << I agree that crossbow should do much more damage, and I use weapon mastery system IMC just to boost up the damage values strongly. >> Check out player's option combat and tactics, there they have the crossbow revised, it now deals more damage and has armor piercing ability. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:30:20 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. >> All you have said above is... bad accuracy, slow rate of fire, unreliability >> and poor visibility. All true, but none of this would affect the difficulty >> to use the weapon, or the difficulty in raising the troops. > >Only the difficulty of getting the enemy dead. Well, yeah. I conceded that longbows were better than the early firearms already. However, if you can maintain a bigger army of musketeers coz you can just hire a few unskilled peasants and give them guns, as opposed to having to use people trained for a long time in using longbows, then that will do... Firing a longbow effectively is without a doubt more difficult than firing a gun, even some old matchlock musket. I doubt that the armies were given much formal training in that period anyway... I appreciate that this just didnt happen overnight, that wasnt the point at all... But we are talking about introducing Savage Coast weapons - already at quite an impressive level of technology, not primitive arquebuses and stuff - IMC they are just about using snaplocks in some places, which isnt inappropriate to the period. They arent at the petard stage... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 13:36:12 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. >Firing a longbow effectively is without a doubt more difficult than firing a >gun, even some old matchlock musket. I doubt that the armies were given >much formal training in that period anyway... OTOH, peasants were often competent with short bows, as that's what they used to kill varmits in the fields or to hunt "lesser" game (like rabbits) which wasn't off-limits to commoners. So the mechanics of bowmanship would've been fairly familiar to them. Changing over from a shortbow to a longbow would've been a question of revising a skill they already possessed, not learning a totally new one. Conversely, expecting a peasant who's used to firing arrows -- slow-moving projectiles that are subject to crosswinds, and which have to be pointed slightly higher than their target to allow for gravity -- to hit the enemy with a bullet -- high-velocity missiles for which neither of these factors apply -- is probably wishful thinking, if you don't take the time to re-train him/her in gunmanship. Remember that these hypothetical peasant-recruits would have never even SEEN guns, before ... and they haven't had a lifetime of gunfights on movies and TV, to give them an intuitive sense that you should aim straight at your target. Just because things LOOK easy to us, doesn't mean they'll look that way to a Mystaran. Wanna bet the average medieval peasant would be knuckle-white with terror, riding in a car at the unprecedented speed of (gasp!) 65 mph? ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:14:00 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. >OTOH, peasants were often competent with short bows, as that's what they >used to kill varmits in the fields or to hunt "lesser" game (like rabbits) >which wasn't off-limits to commoners. So the mechanics of bowmanship >would've been fairly familiar to them. Changing over from a shortbow to a >longbow would've been a question of revising a skill they already >possessed, not learning a totally new one. > >Conversely, expecting a peasant who's used to firing arrows -- slow-moving >projectiles that are subject to crosswinds, and which have to be pointed >slightly higher than their target to allow for gravity -- to hit the enemy >with a bullet -- high-velocity missiles for which neither of these factors >apply -- is probably wishful thinking, if you don't take the time to >re-train him/her in gunmanship. Remember that these hypothetical >peasant-recruits would have never even SEEN guns, before ... and they >haven't had a lifetime of gunfights on movies and TV, to give them an >intuitive sense that you should aim straight at your target. Well, as someone already said, you dont pick out a target, you just aim at the approaching army... Still, the second point is correct... Guns to Mystarans would be brand new inventions, which they werent in 16th century Europe (or a fair bit of the Savage Coast). It would take a while for their use to become common knowledge or accepted practice. But probably not a great deal of time - especially if theres a war on. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:36:58 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Hey all. I'm writing up my Southern Vulcanian Empires Gaz, and i would like some imput. The Snartan Empire - Much like how Bruce introduced it in his Snartopolis mini-gaz. I'm thinking a huge gnomish militocracy built on high powered gnomish weapons, ancient blackmoor stuff stolen from the divergans (talk to Alex!) And rebuilt by rogue technomancers from Thimhallan. The empire is powerful, but it has almost no beaurocracy, and is always on the danger of falling apart from the inside. The Kingdom of Vulcal - A small empire in the southern part of the continent, comprising mostly the Vulcanian Line and the southern polar regions. This Kingdom is more appropriately described as a loose confederation of human and half-gnome states that have banded together to stop the Snartan Empire's growth. The Klaump, Smaft and Dumhwiel clans Rule the Vulcanian March, terrorizing the citizens of the minor countries, and harrying the Snartans/Vulcalians, and the Three Kingdoms. The Three Kingdoms - The Kingdoms of Wu, C'hu, and Chao are found at the extreme tip of the Vulcanian Peninsula. These kingdoms are inhabited by a mixture of Tanagoro/asian peoples and humanoids. The three kingdoms fight constantly, but war is an art form, to be fought exactly as laid out in their great military manuals. (MArt-of-war) Berren - A gnomish city in the lost valley, inhabited by technology-hating druid gnomes, humans, and what-not. Am I stepping on anyone's feet here, or has Bruce already detailed some of these areas in the PA series? If he has, is there anything I should know to make my work canon-compliant? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:02:34 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. >Well, as someone already said, you dont pick out a target, you just aim at >the approaching army... Even worse, in some ways. In order to hit a distant target, you have to aim arrows UP, not level. So if you throw a bunch of guns into untrained peasants' hands, those first few volleys of bullets across the battlefield aren't going to hit anything but low-flying pigeons ... and since a moving bullet is invisible to the naked eye, the wielder can't even SEE that the projectile's not moving in an arc, like an arrow. ("They're not dropping! We aimed just right [for bows] and they're NOT dropping! I TOLD the sargeant these new-fangled 'guns' wouldn't work! Quick, throw 'em away before they blow up in our hands, and RUN!") Sure, the officers can try to correct this error, when it happens ... but will the peasants -- who can't see where their bullets are going; and who just KNOW you can't hit anything with an arrow or bolt or thrown rock, that way -- believe them? It'll take target-practice before battle -- a LOT of target-practice, i.e. a lot of expended powder -- to break them of the habits of a lifetime. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, if the peasants are trained carefully. I'm just saying it's not nearly as effortless a mental transition, from archery to firearms, as people seemed to be implying. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:19:45 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) >Am I stepping on anyone's feet here, or has Bruce already detailed some of >these areas in the PA series? If he has, is there anything I should know >to make my work canon-compliant? > > >Ethan No, I don't think Bruce wrote anything about Vulcania; the Princess Ark dropped into the HW, before she could travel that far east along the Davanian coast. You might want to check out Geoff's history for the Varellyans, since they'd probably have had some contact with the places you're working on. I've got some pretty juicy ideas about Vulcania's ancient history in store, for the HM (it was the first land-based satrap of the MPersian kopru Dominarchy). If you are planning to date these gnomish cities back before 1400 BC, there might be contradictions. E-mail me, if you'd like to make the two concepts compatible*, and we can try to blend the timelines cleanly together. Sharon [* - Even if you don't like the HM personally, Ethan, I think it's best for Mystara if we make as much of the "non-canon" material compatible with other non-canon work as possible. That way, people can use whatever bits and pieces they like, without having to re-engineer them to fit their campaign. :-)] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:32:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Dominarchy). If you are planning to date these gnomish cities back before > 1400 BC, there might be contradictions. E-mail me, if you'd like to make > the two concepts compatible*, and we can try to blend the timelines cleanly > together. The gnomes have been a major force in Vulcania since the first ice gnome expansion in 1700 BC. (I have my timeline up at stan's page, or www.wpi.edu/~eand/Mystara) In BC 1700, according to my timeline, the war of the earthshakers occured in the southern polar regions. (The ancient elves' homeland) For the next 200 years, the remaining gnomish earthshakers travelled north. There shouldn't be too much contact between the Kopru and the Gnomes, since the major clans of the marches (Klaump, Smaft, Dumhwiel) weren't created until Clan Skyras broke apart in 1400 BC. Berren was founded in the lost valley in ~1500 BC Thimhallan has been around since about 633 BC, but isn't officially involved in any local politics. In 1900 BC, the tanagoro colony at the tip of Vulcania was created. These colonies are the basis for the MArt-Of-War kingdoms. However, I'm not expecting those colonies to gain power until at least 700 BC. The Snartan Empire (The major force in the region) has been around since 500 BC, when Clan Snarta returned to the area. > other non-canon work as possible. That way, people can use whatever bits > and pieces they like, without having to re-engineer them to fit their > campaign. :-)] I completely agree. I try to make my stuff as compatible as possible. Plus it makes the world more interesting to have other people working on different elements. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:04:27 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia > -----Original Message----- > From: SteelAngel [SMTP:eand@WPI.EDU] > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 5:14 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia > > On Wed, 31 Mar 1999 GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > > > WotI for $20 there all in mint condition. Now if I can just find a > place that > > has the Gaz series I will be set. > > If you find that mystical place, tell me. I will buy them out ;) > > > Ethan - only 5 more.... > > [MURPHY Jason] Got em all so nyerrrrr :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #159 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 6 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 160 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM RE: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? [MYSTARA] - Current projects [MYSTARA] - Gunpowder Re: [MYSTARA] - Gunpowder Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:15:36 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia Should I be going out of my way to find Champions of Mystara? What am I missing out if i don't have it? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 21:24:46 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) Ethan wrote: >The Snartan Empire - >Much like how Bruce introduced it in his Snartopolis mini-gaz. I'm >thinking a huge gnomish militocracy built on high powered >gnomish weapons, ancient blackmoor stuff stolen from the divergans (talk >to Alex!) And rebuilt by rogue technomancers from Thimhallan. The empire >is powerful, but it has almost no beaurocracy, and is always on the danger >of falling apart from the inside. Cool idea! I'd suggest that the Blackmoorian relics would be a mite undependable, though, or at least the reconstruction efforts by the rogue technomancers didn't go *quite* as planned - just a little wrench to throw into the works to ensure that some random elements pop up now and then. >The Kingdom of Vulcal - >A small empire in the southern part of the continent, comprising mostly >the Vulcanian Line and the southern polar regions. This Kingdom is more >appropriately described as a loose confederation of human and half-gnome >states that have banded together to stop the Snartan Empire's growth. Hmm....so we're looking at the extreme south of my maps, then? I'm intrigued about this one... >The Klaump, Smaft and Dumhwiel clans Rule the Vulcanian March, terrorizing >the citizens of the minor countries, and harrying the Snartans/Vulcalians, >and the Three Kingdoms. Suitable thing for them to do - I'd also suggest there be other, minor clans with their own earthshakers - having four is neat, but we need a few more who might band together as well to hold off the Big Three. >The Three Kingdoms - >The Kingdoms of Wu, C'hu, and Chao are found at the extreme tip of the >Vulcanian Peninsula. These kingdoms are inhabited by a mixture of >Tanagoro/asian peoples and humanoids. The three kingdoms fight constantly, >but war is an art form, to be fought exactly as laid out in their great >military manuals. (MArt-of-war) Neat! Anything else on these? >Berren - >A gnomish city in the lost valley, inhabited by technology-hating druid >gnomes, humans, and what-not. Which number on the map would these guys be? >Am I stepping on anyone's feet here, or has Bruce already detailed some of >these areas in the PA series? If he has, is there anything I should know >to make my work canon-compliant? Not really. Of course, that red-bordered inland territory in the Lost Valley is Niscosenia, among the more advanced nations of the valley region itself, or at least the only thing larger than a city-state (but that's not saying much). I've got some info on this from the MMB when I posted it there as rough ideas, and Bruce added some comments, too. Another thing for me to work on.... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Rules Cyclopedia On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > Should I be going out of my way to find Champions of Mystara? What am I > missing out if i don't have it? Only some PA stuff and some mini-gaz's on the serpent peninsula. Everything else is almost recycled rules. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:01:43 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > Cool idea! I'd suggest that the Blackmoorian relics would be a mite > undependable, though, or at least the reconstruction efforts by the > rogue technomancers didn't go *quite* as planned - just a little wrench > to throw into the works to ensure that some random elements pop up now > and then. Oh yes... Technomancers have their own agendas too.. And where _do_ the Snartans find the nice toys? The Divergans have an ancient military bunker... (fitting in my work with Alex's) > Hmm....so we're looking at the extreme south of my maps, then? I'm > intrigued about this one... Yes, extreme south, almost off of your maps. The Vulcalians (vul-cay-li-ans) control the ancient ice gnomish homelands, the ruins of a certain destroyed Earthshaker (Which isn't so destroyed!), and have a small problem with a lich that never died... (read the timeline!) > Suitable thing for them to do - I'd also suggest there be other, minor > clans with their own earthshakers - having four is neat, but we need a few > more who might band together as well to hold off the Big Three. Yes, definitely. Those three clans are just the biggies right now. Until they get destroyed. Then the next-generation takes over. > >but war is an art form, to be fought exactly as laid out in their great > >military manuals. (MArt-of-war) > > Neat! Anything else on these? These three kingdoms have actually the second most work done on them (behind Snarta) In a nutshell, The Emperor of the Kingdoms is chosen as the General who displays the best tactical maneuvers in the sucession wars. As an example, from the Art of War: "To preserve the enemy capital is best, to destroy is second best. To preserve the enemy cities is best, to destroy them second best. To preserve the enemy companies is best, to destroy them second best..." And so on. The greatest generals of the Three Kingdoms are those that conquer the enemy without losing a single soldier. The people of these kingdoms have a terribly rigid code of honor, much like Klingons, and war is the holiest of adventures. > Which number on the map would these guys be? It really isn't on the map yet. However, I will place them as to not step all over Nicosenia. However, if you'd like to, we can see where Berren would fit in. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:56:27 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM In a message dated 4/5/99 9:48:44 PM EST, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << Only some PA stuff and some mini-gaz's on the serpent peninsula. Everything else is almost recycled rules >> I don't have the PA articles (got rid of my Dragon's in the "great RPG purge" several years ago). Are they of any interest or use? Or are they merely "filler". One Eye *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:05:56 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - APB - Vulcania (long) On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Geoff Gander wrote: > Which number on the map would these guys be? To answer your question, Berren is found in the little cachet of trees west of #5 on your map. To put it there isolates it a bit from everyone, since druids are rather exclusive.. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:13:53 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM On Mon, 5 Apr 1999 GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > several years ago). Are they of any interest or use? Or are they merely > "filler". In my opinion.. Filler. All the good articles aren't in that set. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 23:28:06 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM In a message dated 4/5/99 10:14:46 PM EST, eand@WPI.EDU writes: << In my opinion.. Filler. All the good articles aren't in that set. >> Better to wait 'til the Dragon CD comes out then... (if it ever does) cj aka "One Eye the Dwarf" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:46:10 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - RW knights, guns and so forth. > Well, yeah. I conceded that longbows were better than the early firearms > already. However, if you can maintain a bigger army of musketeers coz you > can just hire a few unskilled peasants and give them guns, as opposed to > having to use people trained for a long time in using longbows, then that > will do... > > Firing a longbow effectively is without a doubt more difficult than firing > a > gun, even some old matchlock musket. I doubt that the armies were given > much formal training in that period anyway... > > I appreciate that this just didnt happen overnight, that wasnt the point > at > all... But we are talking about introducing Savage Coast weapons - > already > at quite an impressive level of technology, not primitive arquebuses and > stuff - IMC they are just about using snaplocks in some places, which isnt > inappropriate to the period. They arent at the petard stage... > > Cheerz > > Rob > > [MURPHY Jason] Possibly one of the chief reasons muskets were picked up by european nations is that no nation other than the English had access to the welsh longbow. They simply didnt have the option to use them and so when the musket came along they never had to make the choice between longbow and musket. The longbow was indeed possibly the only truly "secret" weapon as it was never duplicated by any other organised body for use in warfare. Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:43:42 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Great waste (Has anyone made anything out of Jaibul?) > Should I be going out of my way to find Champions of Mystara? What am I > missing out if i don't have it? Don't bother. You miss three books: Designers manual -- n pages rules of sky-ship creation Heroes of the Princess Ark -- fun, but useless unless you intend to create Princess Ark -campaign. Explorers manual -- covers rather badly the desert areas east from Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent Peninsula, badly again. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:44:44 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > Should I be going out of my way to find Champions of Mystara? What am I > > missing out if i don't have it? > Don't bother. > You miss three books: > Designers manual -- n pages rules of sky-ship creation > Heroes of the Princess Ark -- fun, but useless unless you intend to > create Princess Ark -campaign. Its the princess ark story, or at least alot of it, collected. I enjoyed reading it, and it also provides descriptions of the various countries mentioned later. > Explorers manual -- covers rather badly the desert areas east from > Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent > Peninsula, badly again. I thought the Sind and Grakhalia parts were pretty good. I didnt care much for the serpent peninsula though.. ***BUT! The box has some great maps too! *** If you wanna be one of the cool guys, you should buy it! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 12:43:08 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? > Gun/Smoke powder works in the Savage Coast, no armored knights. It might dramatically change the tone of the Known World...."Who needs a mage in the party....I have my boomstick!" > No mages?! Blassphemy!!!! Actualy, the real problam with gonpowder weapons is that ranged combat becomes a lot more effective than close combat. (and I speak from experience... not in role playing though) No more dragons swooping and our heroes, more like our heros blasting the dragon out of the sky. (which doesnt make them very good heroes does it?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:33:47 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel > >have had tremendous impact on that culture. Who knows, perhaps they > >have been enslaved by the wizards to serve as lab-assistants or test > >subjects, or whatever... > > Maybe if they've been used/employed in labs for generations, then > too-frequent exposure to magic (or the Radiance) could have caused a > mutation among them ... one that causes albinism. In other words, "white > lab-ratlings". :-) Hah, hah. :) > >> Also, can anybody think of any previous ret-cons which the Immortals > >> might have performed? The sinking and recovery of Alphatia is probably one > >> such occasion... > > > >I seem to recall that Thanatos attempted some sort of rewriting of > >history in the HWA-trilogy...I can't seem to remember what it was all > >about though... > > It wasn't a re-writing of history IIRC, just a way to decoy the other > Immortals into the past so they wouldn't screw with his HWA plots. Oh yeah. Thx. But what was it he actually did to send them back there? Oh, never mind; I can look it up myself... > >What I > >was wondering was why the immortals didn't set up some Blackmoorians > >in the Hollow World. I mean when they were under the influence of the > >Spell of Preservation they wouldn't make another disaster, right? And > >if the HW hadn't been set up at the time, well, THEN the Time > >immortals could travel back and grab a few of them and send them down > >there. Of course in your (or my) campaign they may have done just > >that, and the Blackmoorians are stuck in som eundeveloped > >territory... > > The HW already existed -- it goes back to the dinosaur era, after all -- > but I think the Blackmoor culture was vaporized so totally, there literally > wasn't anyone left, to send to the museum-setting. The four HW Immortals > presumably had their hands full, just trying to save the cultures which > HADN'T been nuked (like the Oltecs and Azcans); performing the kind of > "mass resurrection" they did for Alphatia, when there's nothing but > radioactive ash left to work with, probably lay beyond even Hierarchs' > abilities. > > Granted, a Time-Immortal could hypothetically have gone back, and collected > a few Blackmoorians for later preservation. But remember that the HW > Council's Time-Immortal is Ordana ... a treant who'd have been HORRIFIED at > the firepower (emphasis on "fire") of Blackmoor's self-destruction; and > creator of the Evergrun elves, who'd had her "children" seduced away from > her by the lure of (ugh!) technology. Plus, we know Blackmoorians didn't > worship any Time-Immortals, themselves -- Khoronus was their first, but he > only became Immortal in the GRoF's aftermath -- so there was nobody else > from that Sphere, who had a motive to save them. So, you only get to be saved if you honor the right immortals ?!? That's rather harsh, I think... I would say that it was their obligation to save all civilizations on the brink of destruction (or even already destroyed). And there are such extreme examples of what civilizations have been saved already (I remember a manscorpion clan mentioned somewhere in HWA. Something about how they were the last ones living in a particular way) that I think the Blackmoorians deserve to be saved. Of course the immortals must obviously have chickened out here, being afraid of the Blackmoorian's power, but some trickster immortal really ought to have saved them; if for no other reason then to annoy the other immortals... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:42:43 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > > Sure, there are hundreds of 36th level M-U's and clerics in thyatis, > > but just how many of them do you think there are in the Thyatian > > army? And if they're not in the army what would be their interest in > > fighting Thothia? The few 36th-level characters I've had or DM'ed > > were far more interested in personal matters, not in helping out > > the emperor of Thyatis or what-have-you, just because he's in some > > kind of trouble with expanding his empire... > > As I said: "Alphatian Disease"! Perhaps the clerics and wizards > who did not do anything are not too much favored by the > commoners after the war. Now, why would the commoners care much about this. I think the commoners care about the problems directly affecting them, not the Emperor's expansionist tendencies. Perhaps the common soldier feels cheated, but then if these 36th-level dudes are not in the military, they've got nothing to whine about. The only person who might hold a grudge would be the emperor of Thyatis. He might have asked some of them for help and been rejected. But what could he do about that. You can't bully 36th-level characters to do your bidding. And "Alphatian Disease" is not something I identified right away... But, OK, I think I get it... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:55:47 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? >> Gun/Smoke powder works in the Savage Coast, no armored knights. It might >dramatically change the tone of the Known World...."Who needs a mage in the >party....I have my boomstick!" >> > >No mages?! >Blassphemy!!!! > > >Actualy, the real problam with gonpowder weapons is that ranged combat becomes a lot more effective than close combat. >(and I speak from experience... not in role playing though) >No more dragons swooping and our heroes, more like our heros blasting the dragon out of the sky. (which doesnt make them very good heroes does it?) Very true at low levels, not so true at the higher levels. A musket does fixed damage, but higher level fighters are able to inflict massive damage, with strength, etc. etc. etc. (not sure how valid this would be in OD&D rulz, but IIRC the grand mastery rules make swordsmen To Be Feared). IMC the party, unwilling to tangle with a green dragon, sailed a small boat up to its lair with a few cannon on board, loaded with shrapnel. The thief enticed the beast out of its lair, and then they "let it have it...". The damage practically decided the battle before it had started. But its certainly a new idea for AD&D, anyway. Firearms certainly makes for a different game, whether you like that or not is up to you. Personally, I dont allow smokepowder to work outside the Savage Coast area - that way I get the best of both worlds. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:53:46 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Current projects I'm working on assembling a list of rulers and important folks, with their levels in different years and with important occasions (year of birth, death, crowning, whatever). What I want to know is: Have anybody done a similar list previously? And can anybody provide me with stats on Savage Coast rulers and notables with the information outlined above? It has to be published material, not your own work (I'm thinking about the AD&D Savage Coast material which I don't have access to). Of course when I'm done with it I'll post it here. And in the works is also an overview of the armies of Mystara at different times (all from published materials). You'll notice that I don't really produce much new work; I'm better at assembling odds and ends from previously published material... But who knows; one day I might share some of my own work with you :) Oh, and Leroy, sorry, I think my mailing program might have targeted you again. Sorry for any duplicate mails... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:24:24 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gunpowder (Yeah, I try to change subject after *just* this mail) > Actualy, the real problam with gonpowder weapons is that ranged > combat becomes a lot more effective than close combat. (and I speak > from experience... not in role playing though) There are *differences* between AK-47 or M16 you probably have used, and the primitive arquebus and musket. Muskets became effective at the era of Louis something-like-XIV, and as Marco Polo brought the gunpowder from China 100 or 200 years earlier, it is not the gunpowder changing the course of the campaign. Besides, ranged combat is more effective than melee, with magic as powerful as it is. Princess Ark, f.ex., has horrible 'Light Ballistas', being triple-barreled magic-missile machine guns -- shooting three bursts of three missiles each round -- 9d6+9. Art of magical warfare is horrible. Luckily the Alphatian masters have had better things to do than forming assembly lines for magical weapons. 2000 years of magical science make literally anything possible. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 06:35:55 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gunpowder >Muskets became effective at the era of Louis something-like-XIV, and as Marco Polo brought the gunpowder from China 100 or 200 years earlier, it is not the gunpowder changing the course of the campaign. IMO, Henri IV or Louis XIII as the "mousquetaires" (you may know d'artagnan Athos Aramis & Portos) have some ... and were protecting sire Louis the 13th ... Their names "mousquetaires" coming from musket ("mousquet" in French). Friendly Marcus (the French one) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:11:15 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent Primary reason I bought CoM. Hule. Oh wait.. Hule isn't included. !*@&^#$%*#!@&^$%!@*!!!!!!! Second biggest waste of money since I sunk $30 into buying Aerotech. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 07:45:38 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >> Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent > >Primary reason I bought CoM. > >Hule. > >Oh wait.. Hule isn't included. > >!*@&^#$%*#!@&^$%!@*!!!!!!! > Hey ... wait ... remember that some of us don't have X4 or X6 ... And they live too far US coast to find anything about Princess Ark. At last ... I've destroyed Hule so who cares ;^) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:15:51 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >> Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent > >Primary reason I bought CoM. > >Hule. > >Oh wait.. Hule isn't included. > >!*@&^#$%*#!@&^$%!@*!!!!!!! Same thing for me, so where could I find more information about this part of Mystara? It seems that there isn't too much material about Hule on the web or maybe I haven't looked at the right place. Krieg! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #160 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 161 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Importing Spelljammers Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - re:MYSTARA] - Gunpowder Re: [MYSTARA] - re:MYSTARA] - Gunpowder Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D [MYSTARA] - Mystara-space Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM [MYSTARA] - Address change! Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara-space Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 08:26:39 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >From: "Christian Constantin" >Same thing for me, so where could I find more information about this part of >Mystara? It seems that there isn't too much material about Hule on the web >or maybe I haven't looked at the right place. > >Krieg! Let's have a look on "Great Hule gazeteer" available on Marco del Monte homepage (i think) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:35:14 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > Explorers manual -- covers rather badly the desert areas east from > > Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent > > Peninsula, badly again. > > I thought the Sind and Grakhalia parts were pretty good. I didnt care much > for the serpent peninsula though.. > > ***BUT! The box has some great maps too! *** Thr map of the Great Waste is excelent and hanging on my wall :)...It links the known world to the Savage Coast and is a wonderful area to put the PCs*cackles evilly*. Sind is an exotic place to take the PC...as few worlds have a place with an Indian tone. If you look around you can find CoM box at a reduced price....I think a paid $10 US for it. Every Mystara fan should have his box. > If you wanna be one of the cool guys, you should buy it! :) Håvard....does this mean in a cool guy???? :) - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:36:52 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >Let's have a look on "Great Hule gazeteer" available on Marco del Monte >homepage (i think) Yeah, I have seen this one and I have read most of the material that can be found on Shawn page. All this is pretty good but, compared with what have been published on the web regarding other regions of Mystara, I think that there is much left to be done (a good map, sub-regional description, a more detailed history, politics inside the hulean system, etc) since Hule is a major power and an interesting bad neighbor. Krieg! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:48:05 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste In a message dated 4/6/99 11:39:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: << an exotic place to take the PC...as few worlds have a place with an Indian tone. If you look around you can find CoM box at a reduced price....I think a paid $10 US for it. Every Mystara fan should have his box. >> Do you live near a K-B toystore? If you do go there, I've purchased a lot of books there and I will list them and their prices. Glantri: Kingdom of Magic $6.00 Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure $7.00 Dawn of the Emperors $3.00 Champions of Mystara $3.00 Mark of Amber $2.50 Night of the Vampire $3.00 Player's Pack (Character sheets and dice) $2.00 I also saw Wrath of the Immortals, but I had no money on me $4.00 'So many relatives, so little poison.' Henri d'Ambreville *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:21:44 -0600 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Daniel Boese wrote: >>IIRC, Thanatos trapped the other immortals in time....but he did not >>actually try to re-write history. He just needed a place to "store" those >>other pesky immortals while he tried to corrupt the HW sun. I think that >>the last module in the series (can't remember the name right off) described >>time as a river. PCs that entered the river could see what happened in the >>past, but could not alter events. The only ones they could interact with >>were the immortals. >Actually, the PCs /were/ able to alter the past... the module just >claimed that if they changed things too much (ie, shoving around >continents after Asterius gave them some Immortal power), the other >Immortals would set things right. :) >Another interesting thing was that the modules said the reason the PCs >saw time as the Emerald River was because of the specific "spell" used, >and that other spells would show time differently. Any suggestions on what >these other spells might be, and how they would show time to mortal minds? >(The Chronomancer supplement is probably only one of several methods...) Thanks for the clarification Daniel...guess I have to go back ar re-read NightWail again. I don't have the Chronomancer supplement, so I don't know how they work time travel there. It might be interesting to figure out several different ways in which time travel could work. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:21:53 -0600 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Importing Spelljammers Daniel Boese wrote: > I've been staring at my four Spelljammer boxes (which I've stuffed all my >other SJ books into :) ), then my Mystara boxes, and back and forth a bit, >and thinking... Where on Mystara could I find a Dolphin Shuttle, or a >Whaleship, or a Dragonfly or Wasp, or even a munchkin Vipership or >run-of-the-mill Hammership? Who on Mystara would - and, more importantly, >/could/ - build this sort of skyship? I've been considering this for quite some time. You missed one of my favorite answers...Nithian Pyramid ships. These could be old lost ships, ones that never left Mystara, or ones that crashed at some point in the past, and could be piloted by numerous undead creatures...or they could be new models. In the latter case, the ships would be piloted by Nithian decendants, perhaps travelers returning from some long forgotten (and untouched by immortal hands) colony. >Another possibility is to have a couple of Spelljammers crash onto >Mystara from out-of-the-blue, inspiring an Aegos-like race-of-nations to >capture and control the strange skyships. Hm... if they fall in the Broken >Lands, and the shamans and wokani there manage to make the helms (or >Dynamos of Flying, or whatever you prefer) work, they'd become menacing >enough again to prompt to AC 1020 Orcwars: "Joint Darokinian and Thyatian >operations to protect their interests. All-out war pits humans vs. orcs." >(I can't really see Thyatis joining Darokin unless the Broken Lands orcs >were somehow able to threaten Thyatis itself, which implies the orcs are >able to /get to/ Thyatis - implying either skyships or really-really-long >tunnels...) Hey, this is a really cool idea! What if one of the ships that just happens to crash in the broken lands is a Scro Mantis. Even if the ship is damaged beyond all repair, Mystara is still in for a big shock! These guys could really get things moving in the Broken Lands. That might be enough to make Darokin and Thyatis join forces... If you wanted orcs flying skyships, the scro could make it happen...or if you prefer less magic, or at least smaller magic items, the scro could provide that as well. After all it would take them some years to unite enough tribes under them, and train them into a fighting force. It would be easier for the scro and their minions to create smaller magical items (still quite potent) as opposed to full scale spelljammers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:55:13 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/6/99 11:39:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: > > << an exotic place to take the PC...as few worlds have a place with an Indian > tone. > If you look around you can find CoM box at a reduced price....I think a paid > $10 > US for it. Every Mystara fan should have his box. >> > > Do you live near a K-B toystore? If you do go there, I've purchased a lot of > books there and I will list them and their prices. > > Glantri: Kingdom of Magic > $6.00 > Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure > $7.00 > Dawn of the Emperors > $3.00 > Champions of Mystara > $3.00 > Mark of Amber > $2.50 > Night of the Vampire > $3.00 > Player's Pack (Character sheets and dice) > $2.00 > I also saw Wrath of the Immortals, but I had no money on me $4.00 *sigh*....sadly i already had them when I saw them there...but that didn't stop me from picking up an extra WotI, DotE, and HW box ($2.00).....hey...maps don't last forever. And it is good if you have friends who don't have these things and "borrow" them. :) - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:31:06 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - re:MYSTARA] - Gunpowder >There are *differences* between AK-47 or M16 you probably have used, and the primitive arquebus and musket. Muskets became effective at the era of Louis something-like-XIV, and as Marco Polo brought the gunpowder from China 100 or 200 years earlier, it is not the gunpowder changing the course of the campaign. > true, but still *eventually* melee combat will obselete. (BTW and outof topic: Ive used M16 ,GALIL-israely made, a belgium mashin gun and several anti tank weapons) > Besides, ranged combat is more effective than melee, with magic as powerful as it is. Princess Ark, f.ex., has horrible 'Light Ballistas', being triple-barreled magic-missile machine guns -- shooting three bursts of three missiles each round -- 9d6+9. Art of magical warfare is horrible. Luckily the Alphatian masters have had better things to do than forming assembly lines for magical weapons. 2000 years of magical science make literally anything possible. - Markus > Yes, the Alphatian horor of industrialized magic reares its ugly head once again. this is also seen in Glantri and Serraine. it seems some writers (sorry oh great and mighty Bruce :-)) find it funny to use magic as modern weapons, vehicles and even kitchen appliances. it was funny the first time (gaz3), its not anymore. even if its logical that magic in magic rich areas will take over every aspect of life (like technology did IRL) it takes the fun out of magic IMO. I'll keep magic mysterious even in a nation like Glantri. And as I said before and probably will again: Im glad the damn thing sank, may the aeromancers of Alphatia rot in the guts of fishes. rule Boldavia! Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 13:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re:MYSTARA] - Gunpowder On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, [iso-8859-1] àéìï ùçí wrote: > Yes, the Alphatian horor of industrialized magic reares its ugly head > once again. this is also seen in Glantri and Serraine. it seems some > writers (sorry oh great and mighty Bruce :-)) find it funny to use magic > as modern weapons, vehicles and even kitchen appliances. it was funny > the first time (gaz3), its not anymore. Magic can be industriaized, but one must remember, henry ford hasn't been born yet. There are no assembly lines. Puttering mages make random devices to make their lives easier, and maybe sell a few. Far from a Laundromagic in every house.. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:36:18 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM >> several years ago). Are they of any interest or use? Or are they merely >> "filler". > >In my opinion.. Filler. >All the good articles aren't in that set. > > >Ethan Well, one good thing from those articles was that each episode had a decent hex map of the area - not those awful sketchy ones in the Red Steel boxed set. Most of 'em actually fit together, too. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:38:50 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste > >You miss three books: >Designers manual -- n pages rules of sky-ship creation >Heroes of the Princess Ark -- fun, but useless unless you intend to >create Princess Ark -campaign. >Explorers manual -- covers rather badly the desert areas east from >Darokin, but leaves (f**k!) Hule out, and then again covers the Serpent >Peninsula, badly again. > > - Markus That may be so (especially about leaving Hule out), but there were some good maps in there, and it's better to have at least some factual information than none at all. At least with what's there you can use it as a foundation for a decent campaign, and hey, it even includes advice on when to stage X6 and X9. :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:54:18 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could help me translate the D&D characters into AD&D terms. Anyone could help me? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:59:18 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D In a message dated 4/6/99 2:09:50 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Magistar2@aol.com writes: << I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could help me translate the D&D characters into AD&D terms. Anyone could help me >> Check the back of the Rules Cyclopedia...it has the "how to" listed there. One Eye *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:35:24 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D >I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could help me translate the >D&D characters into AD&D terms. Anyone could help me? Well, I do that all the time... ;) sure. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:52:04 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D to AD&D In a message dated 4/6/99 6:33:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@easynet.co.uk writes: << Well, I do that all the time... ;) >> Okay, thanks, because I'm not very good at that type of thing, and it never really works just right. It's just that I also have trouble with alignments (like those emperors and empresses). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:14:58 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara-space I am conducting a new campaign in Mystara and it would be good idea if I were to write it all down, so could someone just check me (note: I am making a few changes...) Distance from sun Planet Notes 0 Sun the sun 1 Cyprilli Planet from which the Alphatians and the Flaems came Cyrtia* Small, pale moon 2 Laterre Homeland of the d'Ambreville 3 Mystara The normal planet, has two moons Matera* Populated by a strange elflike race Patera* Home of the Raskasta 3.1 Krynn Perfect copy of Krynn made by immortals Solinari* Populated by good versions of normal races Lunitari* Red, Populated by Bizarre creatures Nuitari* Black, population unknown 3.2 Cerrila Home of birthright campaign setting The Silver Moon* Not populated 4 Marthin Populated by dwarves and gnomes 4.5 Ring of immortals Asteroid range 5 Ether Black gas planet 6 Rad Green gas planet 7 Aserthi White Gas Planet, possibly home of good aligned immortals 8 Entropy Vastly unknown *Moon "He wouldn't recognize evil if it dressed in black robes, clutched a blood-stained dagger, and jumped onto his bed shouting 'I am darkness personified!' A significant character Flaw, even for a human." Jenkin Flintfoot, halfling ambassador when speaking about King Stefan of Karameikos *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:03:39 -0500 From: onesimus@postoffice.swbell.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - CoM Status on the Dragon archive as of last week was "July". GlobalFrog@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/99 10:14:46 PM EST, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > > << In my opinion.. Filler. > All the good articles aren't in that set. >> > > Better to wait 'til the Dragon CD comes out then... (if it ever does) > > cj > aka "One Eye the Dwarf" > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 23:52:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Address change! - --WebTV-Mail-87301991-20819 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Hi All! Just wanted to let everyone know that I am no longer at my Hotmail address (problems, problems!), so please update your address books! Sorry for any inconvenience, Jenn - --WebTV-Mail-87301991-20819 Content-Description: signature Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/HTML; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit

- --WebTV-Mail-87301991-20819-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:55:33 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Jerry Hovenanian wrote: > Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > > ***BUT! The box has some great maps too! *** > > Thr map of the Great Waste is excelent and hanging on my wall :)...It links > the known world to the Savage Coast and is a wonderful area to put the > PCs*cackles evilly*. Sind is > an exotic place to take the PC...as few worlds have a place with an Indian tone. > If you look around you can find CoM box at a reduced price....I think a paid $10 > US for it. Every Mystara fan should have his box. > > > If you wanna be one of the cool guys, you should buy it! :) > > Håvard....does this mean in a cool guy???? :) Yep! You were probably thinking you were just another rpg-nerd who had weird maps on his wall, but actually your life changed when you bought that very boxed set. Soon you will find that everyone likes you and want to be like you. What a boost for the gaming industry! :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:05:40 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara-space On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > I am conducting a new campaign in Mystara and it would be good idea if I were > to write it all down, so could someone just check me (note: I am making a few > changes...) This looks pretty cool. Its one of the best ways to integrate other settings into Mystara so far. :) > "He wouldn't recognize evil if it dressed in black robes, clutched a > blood-stained dagger, and jumped onto his bed shouting 'I am darkness > personified!' A significant character Flaw, even for a human." > Jenkin Flintfoot, halfling ambassador when speaking about King Stefan of > Karameikos Would Jenkin Flintfoot be related to one E. Blackadder? :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:12:14 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control the problem with introducing guns into Mystara is that it changes the setting. the developement of the gun was not only a technological progression, it also mirrored and influenced social changes. guns destroyed (quite literally) the divinity of the knightly caste and eventually undermined the yeomanry class of the longbowman. though gunnery was stifled to a privileged few, time made for more common use by the peasants who themselves became a force to deal with. the line between serf and divine monarch/noble had eroded. of course all of this diminishing of divinity did little for the Church. all of that is fine for the real world, but this is Mystara a fantasy setting. since guns killed the nobility and yeomanry you can imagine what it will do for the fringe adventurer sect. the gun is the great equalizer. enough to knock down any menacing hill giant or humanoid raiding party. of course, gun proponents will cite restricting guns. however, that would be difficult to stimy production and deployment. all it would take would be one aggressor nation to start things by outfitting a brigade of fusiliers. to counter this neighboring nations would do the same. every gun issued is one that can fall into the hands of locals. since every town and village seems to have its own blacksmith, the design could be easily copied and sold to the masses. if they can consruct a crossbow and economically cheap suit of chainmail, they can surely fashion a pipe with a touchhole to make a rudimentary gun. gunpowder itself is relatively simple to make. potassium nitrate, charcoal, and sulfer can be found fairly easily even in a fantasy setting. allotting damage from a gun is a problem as well. the TSR hit point system has its faults, most notably in regard to higher level PCs. even a mid-level pc could take numerous hits before going "teets up". of course infection could be brought in. but then i would have to interject why infection is not automatically included in all wounds. an antagonist's blade and dank dungeon are not going to be sterile. of course infection can always be remedied by the local clergy...the one in the temple next to the blacksmith :-). gunshot traits such as shock, shattered bones, and bleeding (including internal hemorrhaging) would require rolls along the lines of critical hits and the dreaded roll to decide whick body part is dangling uselessly by a sliver of meat. toss in system shock and possible fear checks and the dice roller is subject to repetative stress injuries :-). guns in mystara is a pandora's box, awaiting to be opened. the fantasy/feudal aspect is stressed as is with trade and social structures of certain nations... cough-cough...Darokin...cough-cough. guns could be the proverbial nail in the coffin for the fantasy flair. if you want guns in your campaign, then fine. but beware of the possible repercussions of the contraptions upon the setting. i am exploiting some of these tendencies in a Blackmoor project of mine. for this i am drawing heavily upon RW examples of guns in RW battles. i also made a customized damage system based on percentage instead of d6, or even d20 rolls. guns used range from early blackmoor examples of matchlocks, more modern cartridge weapons, repeating weapons, and culminating in what i term powerguns (based on David Drake's weapon of choice for his Hammer's Slammers series). i do not utilize lasers due to their limited physical damage upon a target and their power needs that limit their RW use on the battlefield as a personal weapon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #161 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 162 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste RE: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - B8 [MYSTARA] - B8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:06:13 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > Commoners who tried to become priests just to become aristocrats, would not > get spells. They might seize upon the easier explanation that somehow > said god doesn't like commoners, instead of said god not wanting clerics > with impure intentions. Now I have understood you! OTOH at least one Immortal should have gotten the idea to pose as the friend and protector of the lower classes during these centuries. On the long term this would have created quite a number of really faithful men and women. And don't forget the old immortals' saying: "A follower is a follower." Koryis or Alphatia seem to be appropiate candidates for this kind of job. If we assume that this never happened this is another sign for the foolishness of the immortals. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:37:20 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > > As I said: "Alphatian Disease"! Perhaps the clerics and wizards > > who did not do anything are not too much favored by the > > commoners after the war. > > Now, why would the commoners care much about this. I think the > commoners care about the problems directly affecting them, not the > Emperor's expansionist tendencies. Perhaps the common soldier feels > cheated, but then if these 36th-level dudes are not in the military, > they've got nothing to whine about. The only person who might hold a > grudge would be the emperor of Thyatis. He might have asked some of > them for help and been rejected. But what could he do about that. You > can't bully 36th-level characters to do your bidding. The commoners had some <*damn*> good reasons to develop a hate against the high-level spellcasters. Or have you forgotten that the grain disease started by the Thothians has caused a terrible famine among the lower classes? > And "Alphatian Disease" is not something I identified right away... > But, OK, I think I get it... Alright! Or would you prefer if I would explain the term? Or anybody else? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:48:41 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia Could anybody recite me the sources of info for Heldannic Territories and Hule. Tnx! - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 21:06:05 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! - ---------- > Von: Jennifer Favia Guerra > An: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Betreff: [MYSTARA] - Address change! > Datum: Mittwoch, 7. April 1999 06:52 > Hi All! Just wanted to let everyone know that I am no longer at my Hotmail address (problems, problems!), so please update your address books! Sorry for any inconvenience, Jenn Hey Jenn, your problems have not yet ended! I could read your mail only when I started to examine it thoroughly - what I don't do too often. And of course I could read it when I clicked "Answer". Otherwise I only saw a black screen with two blue HTTP adresses. BTW, my mailing program told me that there was an attachment but it refused to open it. A really funny thing... Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:39:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! >your problems have not yet ended! I could >read your mail only when I started to examine i>t thoroughly - what I don't do too often. >And of course I could read it when I clicked >"Answer". Otherwise I only saw a black screen >with two blue HTTP adresses. >BTW, my mailing program told me that there >was an attachment but it refused to open it. Yeah, LeRoy reminded me that my WebTv mail was done up with html. I've gone back to the plain version--is this better? Sorry--just trying to get someone to tell me if it's okay now! :-) Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 21:00:06 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while At 13.17 23/03/99 -0600, Timothy R. Haney wrote: >> What have Bruce Heard and Ann Dupuis been up to lately? > >I know Bruce is around somewhere lurking. BTW, does anyone have Ann >Dupuis's email address? I'd like to ask her something. Try , that's the address she told me to use to send her the 1015 Almanac. Anyway don't expect her to answer questions about the darkest part of the Almanac (Gareth identity, for example). ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:37:30 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel >So, you only get to be saved if you honor the right immortals ?!? >That's rather harsh, I think... I would say that it was their >obligation to save all civilizations on the brink of destruction (or >even already destroyed). < Under normal circumstances, I'm sure Ka & Co. would try to save representatives of every collapsing civilization they've ever heard of. However, we're talking about the GRoF: an event that must've strained the preservation-minded Immortals' resources to their limits. It would've taken the better part of the HW Immortals' power, just keeping the whole planet from being destroyed ... let alone, saving representatives of EVERY race or species of life imperiled by the global climate-shift! (That's darned near everyone in the world but the Karimari, as far as I can tell.) And the devastation hit SO fast, without any warning, that they didn't see Blackmoor's demise coming and save some of its inhabitants in advance. Afterward, only Ordana had the power to go back in time and retrieve some Blackmoorians, but she wouldn't want to do so for the reasons I've already mentioned. Remember that the HW Immortals are a minority, within the larger community of Pandius. Plenty of other Immortals are content to let their worshippers' cultures die out, or change into something else, whenever they feel those cultures have run their course. To do otherwise would violate the principles of the Sphere of Time (the only Sphere with the power to perform a "retroactive rescue") as it's committed to eternal change and rebirth. Why do you think there's no pre-Blackmoor, tech-free version of Evergrun -- a realm which had only Time-Immortals, Ordana and Calitha, for patrons -- in the Hollow World...? Ordana helped terraform the HW, but she's NOT sent any races there, AFAIK ... just plants, like those on the feathered serpents' sky-island. To her, the HW might be just a big garden for endangered vegetation, not a cultural preserve. Heck, if EVERY Mystaran culture got represented in the HW, there'd be no room to breathe, what with all the Skandaharians and Afridhi and pre-Nithian Alasiyans and nomadic Renardois and Sylvan Land elves and old Highlands' Flaem and pre-disaster Glantrian elves and mainland Yannifey and Urzud humanoids and....! >Of course the immortals must obviously have >chickened out here, being afraid of the Blackmoorian's power, but >some trickster immortal really ought to have saved them; if for no >other reason then to annoy the other immortals...< I'm sure Korotiku would've found it amusing, as might Loki. Unfortunately, they're in the wrong Spheres to do so: only Time-Immortals have such liberty to mess around with history. The sober-minded Path of the Dynast doesn't attract many pranksters, it seems. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:15:26 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > > to pose as the friend and protector of the lower classes > during these centuries. On the long term this would have > created quite a number of really faithful men and women. > > And don't forget the old immortals' saying: > "A follower is a follower." > > Koryis or Alphatia seem to be appropiate candidates > for this kind of job. I agree with this idea; many people would see clerical careers as an alternative to a life of near-servitude (as RW peasants in the Middle Ages would see becoming monks as an alternative to a lifetime of ploughing the earth), but, do not forget that it takes more than mere desire or devotion to become a cleric. Otherwise, all lay worshippers in Mystara who are normal humans and are not atheists would be x Lvl clerics instead of 0 level people!!! I think that, even if it is not a kind of native "gift", becoming a cleric requires both personal and social optimal conditions: 1) personal: faith and interest in the Immortal is OK, but perseverance, attention to study rituals and myth, concentration to learn and cast spells, body and mind control to meditate are mandatory. This skills are not granted to everybody in Mystara. Many people are not interested or just do not get the "knack" for it. 2) social: clerical skills must be taught and learnt, be it through a single mentor or a church institution. If everbody wanted to be a cleric (and do not forget that some churches may impose fees for tuition or "deals" that not everybody is willing to assume), institutions would soon become massificated and be unable to accept the increasing demand of aspirants. 3) especifically for Alphatia, at least IMC, I see clerical training, as well as any kind of intellectual pursuit, connected with literacy. This is a personal point of view and many of you will, probably, disagree. Even if many other cultures may present oral tradition in the training of clerics (and even magic-users), I see Alphatia as both traditionalistic, elitist and quite-of-snobbish (no offence, Alphatia is my favorite country, but I can be realistic, too), so, tradition is linked to an elitist and archaic written world. IMC, I portray Alphatian language as a sort of RW Babylonian-Hebrew-Aramaic mixture and its writing as a complex cuneiform (think of around 700 signs instead of our 29 letters), so it would require training, patience and aptitude just to learn how to read primers for a clerical tuition program in any church!! Nevertheless, the idea of "proletarian revolution" through priesthood would make for a nice campaign plot. I can, on the spur of this e-mail, think of the following: 1) A benign but not very powerful immortal decides to shake the traditionalistic basis of clerical training to improve the lot of Alphatian downtrodden commoners. Cleric numbers rise meteorically through the Empire. 2) Kings start reporting to Eriadna: "Thy Highness, peasants are revolting!!!" Eriadna answers: "Yes, they are ;-) 3) Negotiations between top-level clerics of the seditious immortal and Alphatian "old" nobility. 4) An Entropic Immortal has a bright idea and starts granting very minor clerical powers to commoners, without revealing his/her identity. If cleric proportions had been rising, now there is a true avalanche of pseudo-clerics on the run!!! Society and economics begin to collapse. 5) Conclusion??? I vote for Alphatian mages making pressure to remove aristocratical privileges from ALL clerics. Just mages and elves. I love the idea.... Suggestions????? Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:43:59 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste I'm looking for a comprehensive map of Hule, the only material I have covering this area (the CoM Great Waste map and the PA Southern Hule map, not talking about the X10 map that stops in Sind) provides info only on the south-western part of it. What's up North or East? Where's the capital of Hule (BTW what's its name)? If there isn't anything already done on this matter, I would then consider creating a map showing the missing parts. For this project, I will need everybody's advices on the following questions: 1-How far should Hule go to the North and the East? 2-Are there any neighbors in those directions (I'm thinking of some kind of M-Caucasian/Kurdish/Central Asian cultures)? 3-Is there any canon materials on those regions (north and east of Hule)? 4-How densely populated should the northern and eastern provinces of Hule be compared to the south- western ones? 5-What kind of geographical features should I put in there (the RC map is showing a thick forest going down to the gulf of Hule, what should I do with it since this forest is not appearing in either CoM or PA)? 6-Last but not least, is this a good idea? Thanks! > > If you wanna be one of the cool guys, you should buy it! :) > > Håvard....does this mean in a cool guy???? :) I have this one unfortunately it's not on my wall. I once had both Trail Maps hanging on a wall, does it mean that, at that time, I was super-cool? mega-cool? hyper-cool? ;-) Krieg! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:57:41 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Great waste > I'm looking for a comprehensive map of Hule, the only material I have > covering this area (the CoM Great Waste map and the PA Southern Hule map, > not talking about the X10 map that stops in Sind) provides info only on > the > south-western part of it. What's up North or East? Where's the capital of > Hule (BTW what's its name)? > > If there isn't anything already done on this matter, I would then consider > creating a map showing the missing parts. For this project, I will need > everybody's advices on the following questions: > 1-How far should Hule go to the North and the East? > 2-Are there any neighbors in those directions (I'm thinking of some kind > of > M-Caucasian/Kurdish/Central Asian > cultures)? > 3-Is there any canon materials on those regions (north and east of Hule)? > 4-How densely populated should the northern and eastern provinces of Hule > be > compared to the south- > western ones? > 5-What kind of geographical features should I put in there (the RC map is > showing a thick forest going down to > the gulf of Hule, what should I do with it since this forest is not > appearing in either CoM or PA)? > 6-Last but not least, is this a good idea? > Thanks! > > [MURPHY Jason] X6-The Temple of Death has a fairly complete map of Hule IIRC. And as far as i know the capital is the Temple where the Master resides which is in a rather large forest in the North East of the country. I cant say for certain as i dont have the map in front of me. Hope this helps Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 02:42:17 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste > [MURPHY Jason] > > X6-The Temple of Death has a fairly complete map of Hule IIRC. And >as far as i know the capital is the Temple where the Master resides which is >in a rather large forest in the North East of the country. I cant say for >certain as i dont have the map in front of me. > Hope this helps mystara-l' as the body of the message. Thanks. Of course this is one of the OD&D product I don't have, I'll try to find it somewhere... In the meantime, is there anybody out there who has the module and an acces to a scan who would be kind enough to send me that map? What about my neighbor countries/cultures ideas? Krieg! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 04:10:33 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Address change! looks fine now Jenn! ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:10:04 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > > > As I said: "Alphatian Disease"! Perhaps the clerics and wizards > > > who did not do anything are not too much favored by the > > > commoners after the war. > > > > Now, why would the commoners care much about this. I think the > > commoners care about the problems directly affecting them, not the > > Emperor's expansionist tendencies. Perhaps the common soldier feels > > cheated, but then if these 36th-level dudes are not in the military, > > they've got nothing to whine about. The only person who might hold a > > grudge would be the emperor of Thyatis. He might have asked some of > > them for help and been rejected. But what could he do about that. You > > can't bully 36th-level characters to do your bidding. > > The commoners had some <*damn*> good reasons to > develop a hate against the high-level spellcasters. Or > have you forgotten that the grain disease started by the > Thothians has caused a terrible famine among the lower > classes? I am perfectly aware of that. But what you said was why didn't all those 36th-level dudes do something about Thothia. And I assumed that you meant why didn't they go to the Isle of Dawn and kick Thothia's butt (since that was what the troop movements string was actually about). And that was what I was referring to when I said that the commoners have no reason to whine. They certainly don't care about the Emperor's war (sure, some of them do), it's his expansionist tendencies not something that affects their lives. And as for curing the grain disease, they had people working on it, but it was far too massive a problem for even a few hundred cool clerics to deal with. I'm assuming that literally hundreds of thousands of people were affected here, and there really *are* limits to a cleric's power. So yes, the common peolple might be mad at some clerics but not for the reasons I was talking about. And since there were some clerics trying to clear up the problems, they might actually not be mad at all... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:21:14 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel > >So, you only get to be saved if you honor the right immortals ?!? > >That's rather harsh, I think... I would say that it was their > >obligation to save all civilizations on the brink of destruction (or > >even already destroyed). < > > Afterward, only Ordana had the power to go back in time and retrieve some > Blackmoorians, but she wouldn't want to do so for the reasons I've already > mentioned. > Remember that the HW Immortals are a minority, within the larger > community > of Pandius. Plenty of other Immortals are content to let their > worshippers' cultures die out, or change into something else, whenever they > feel those cultures have run their course. To do otherwise would violate > the principles of the Sphere of Time (the only Sphere with the power to > perform a "retroactive rescue") as it's committed to eternal change and > rebirth. Why do you think there's no pre-Blackmoor, tech-free version of > Evergrun -- a realm which had only Time-Immortals, Ordana and Calitha, for > patrons -- in the Hollow World...? Oops. You've just convinced me. It has been so long since I actually read any of the Hollow World material that I've been living with this misconception that all the Immortals used the HW. Of course there's just a small clique of Immortals. Eek! > Ordana helped terraform the HW, but she's NOT sent any races there, AFAIK > ... just plants, like those on the feathered serpents' sky-island. To her, > the HW might be just a big garden for endangered vegetation, not a cultural > preserve. Heck, if EVERY Mystaran culture got represented in the HW, > there'd be no room to breathe, what with all the Skandaharians and Afridhi > and pre-Nithian Alasiyans and nomadic Renardois and Sylvan Land elves and > old Highlands' Flaem and pre-disaster Glantrian elves and mainland Yannifey > and Urzud humanoids and....! *BUT*, I really do recall this little manscorpion tribe in HWA that represented the last of a certain way of life for manscorpions, and it seems to me that this is just plain weird, considering all the cultures that got ditched. And yes all those cultures you've mentioned might be there...somewhere. There's a lot of undeveloped HW to inhabit. > >Of course the immortals must obviously have > >chickened out here, being afraid of the Blackmoorian's power, but > >some trickster immortal really ought to have saved them; if for no > >other reason then to annoy the other immortals...< > > I'm sure Korotiku would've found it amusing, as might Loki. Unfortunately, > they're in the wrong Spheres to do so: only Time-Immortals have such > liberty to mess around with history. The sober-minded Path of the Dynast > doesn't attract many pranksters, it seems. But then, being tricksters, couldn't they have gotten their hands (or whatever appendage) on a time-artifact allowing them to go back and wreak havoc? Well, IMC I just decided that they have. And there are some Blackmoorians hanging around in the HW, being protected by the Spell of Preservation, and the rule of no direct Immortal intervention... Of course they're stuck where nobody has any real contact with them (like the Gentle Folk), and they have huge limits on their technology. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:04:47 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control This is a reply to Alex295@aol.com: Yep, introducing guns changes the setting. If it didnt, I'd see no point in introducing them in the first place. For gam with guns _and_ fantasy flair I'd recommend a look at Castle Falkenstein, a fantasy game set in an alternative 1870s. xD&D is not a realistic game. To keep the flair, Id rule that guns dont do all that much more damage than crossbows, but with some rules that make them more effective against armour. This will reduce the power of knights, but it will let us keep the dragons and Hill giants as pretty nasty enemies. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:12:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Christian Constantin wrote: > I'm looking for a comprehensive map of Hule, the only material I have > covering this area (the CoM Great Waste map and the PA Southern Hule map, > not talking about the X10 map that stops in Sind) provides info only on the > south-western part of it. What's up North or East? Where's the capital of > Hule (BTW what's its name)? > > If there isn't anything already done on this matter, I would then consider > creating a map showing the missing parts. For this project, I will need > everybody's advices on the following questions: > 1-How far should Hule go to the North and the East? I'm not sure how far east the Black mountains go, but Hule shouldnt reach further north than that. Maps for the western border are found in the Red Steel box. To the east it streches to the Sind Desert. > 2-Are there any neighbors in those directions (I'm thinking of some kind of > M-Caucasian/Kurdish/Central Asian > cultures)? Where exactly would you up them? > 3-Is there any canon materials on those regions (north and east of Hule)? Are you sure you dont mean west? If so check out Red Steel. There are also fragments of info here and there about the black mountains, which i am trying to compile into something... > 4-How densely populated should the northern and eastern provinces of Hule be > compared to the south- > western ones? beats me. > 5-What kind of geographical features should I put in there (the RC map is > showing a thick forest going down to > the gulf of Hule, what should I do with it since this forest is not > appearing in either CoM or PA)? Id suggest light forest, or forested hills. > 6-Last but not least, is this a good idea? Yep :) > Thanks! > > > If you wanna be one of the cool guys, you should buy it! :) > > > > Håvard....does this mean in a cool guy???? :) > > I have this one unfortunately it's not on my wall. I once had both Trail > Maps hanging on a wall, does it mean that, at that time, I was super-cool? > mega-cool? hyper-cool? ;-) No, youre just cool :) I've been considering putting up the trailmaps too, but im too concerned about damaging them... Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:29:59 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - B8 Hi Mystarans ... Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") ... Have a good day ... Marcus from Treshold ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:31:06 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - B8 Hi Mystarans ... Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") ... Have a good day ... Marcus from Treshold ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #162 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 163 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - B8 [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 1 [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1010)] [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1011)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:37:05 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B8 On Thu, 8 Apr 1999, GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine wrote: > Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") It isnt set anywhere on Mystara. But it can be fitted into Darokin or Karameikos. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:46:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 1 Here is first part of the history of House of Sirecchia. In my version di Sfonti's are first family in the house and di Malapietra's second from the middle of the 10th century. History of House of Sirecchia Giuseppe di Sfonti Di Sfonti's were an old Kerendan family that have migrated to the western Alasiyan Marches in the early 6th century. They had got a title of baron in the beginning of the 7th century and had established after that their position as one of the leading families in the area. In AC 707 Giuseppe di Sfonti followed his father Enrico as a baron, in the early age of 23. Giuseppe was a handsome young man with a long blond hairs. He had got a best possible education there was, he spoke besides Thyatian, Alphatian, Alasiyan, elvish and dwarvish, all fluently. He was much admired by others, but not loved because of some of his characteristics. Giuseppe was highly intelligent and could not cover it up. He despised people of lower intelligence and he had a very nihilistic view of world. He was also cynic and very violent under his pleasant appearance. Giuseppe also didn't care about military very much. He wanted to solve problems with the Alphatians and Alasiyans negotiating not fighting. When he told this to Carlo Glantri in AC 708, he was accused of treason and only Cesare Fulvina's mediating saved him. When Lord Pontius Gardius followed Carlo Glantri as a military governor in AC 711, Giuseppe was more careful and only put forward a question if negotiating was possible. It was not. After that Giuseppe left military matters to the others and concentrated on his favourite pastime: hunting with hawks. He also married again in AC 715. His first wife had died in childbed in AC 713, when his second son Massimo was born. Giuseppe brought also this time his wife from Thyatis City. When the war with the Alasiyan nomads and Alphatian intensified year by year Giuseppe saw clearly that there was a disaster coming. He tried to speak with his influential friends in Thyatis City about the matter, but to no avail. When the disaster came in the Battle of Hedjazi in AC 728, Giuseppe supported from the beginning Otto von Drachenfels' idea of leaving the area. Giuseppe had not so bad relations with the nomads, because he had always treated them better than the other Thyatians. But he also knew that it would be a suicide to stay alone in the area. His third wife was also pregnant and he wanted to get her somewhere where she could give birth safely. During the migration to the Highlands Giuseppe was a constant annoyance to the other leaders. He complained about everything and when he was needed he was mostly somewhere hunting. Only time during the migration he was of any use, was when the migration reached the woods of Belcadiz elves. Giuseppe was the only leader capable of speaking elvish, so it was he who succeeded in negotiating safe passage for them through the woods. Giuseppe absolutely charmed some of the elven leaders and especially some of the elven ladies. Giuseppe was already nearly 50-years old, but with his flowing blond hair and boyish manners he still looked like 30-years old. His manners and language were faultless. Giuseppe later spoke often about this as an example of the benefits of the good education. Giuseppe led his followers to the banks of the Red River . There he began to build a new home for himself and his family. Village of Oreggiano was founded in AC 731. At the same year Giuseppe was nearly killed in an assassination attempt. He was furious when it was revealed that the culprit was his eldest son Enrico. Everyone else was horrified when Giuseppe himself tortured his son to death. Giuseppe's folk was mostly spared from the fighting with the Flaems in 730-34 because their area was farthest away from the areas of the Flaems. Giuseppe began to use the title of Baron of Oreggiano. In AC 743 his son Massimo disappeared when in hunting trip in Glantrian Alps. (It was only in AC 788 revealed that the Flaems had captured him and that he had died in prison in AC 764.) Giuseppe's end came suddenly in AC 750. He was already 66-years old, when he died in fever, but he still looked at least 20 years younger. Corrado di Sfonti Corrado was 21-years old when his father died. He was born during the migration in Selenica and as a third son, he was not intended to follow his father as a leader of the family. It was only after Massimo's disappearance that his education was started as a future leader. Corrado was in appearance like a mirror image of his father, but that was the only similarity they had. Corrado didn't have his fathers intelligence and so he was also much more simple person. He also didn't have his fathers tolerance towards others, his father had always spoken for peace with the Flaems, but Corrado was thirsty for military glory. So when Joachim von Drachenfels married a Flaem in AC 751, Corrado was amongst the first to blame him as a traitor. When the skirmishes began Corrado led personally his troops with his younger brother Manfredo. He left the matters in Oreggiano to the hands of his fathers cousin Ottone. Fighting went from bad to worse, Corrado had no military capabilities. Problem was that he couldn't admit that. Corrado led his troops from defeat to defeat until in AC 754 he died in fever. Manfredo di Sfonti Manfredo was 22-years old when he became a baron. He had inherited his looks more from his mother than his father. He was still a handsome, but dark-haired and taller than his brother. He was also more capable in military matters. He had long gone realised that Joachim von Drachenfels and his troops were superior to their army. So after his brother had died, he made a peace with Joachim and returned to Oreggiano. Manfredo now lived a peaceful life concentrating mostly hunting and settling his people over Red River. In AC 759 he married his cousin Constanza. When Joachim von Drachenfels proposed a unified state in AC 761, Manfredo's answers were evasive. He didn't believe that a unified state was possible and he didn't like the idea of a leadership of Joachim von Drachenfels. In AC 766 Manfredo went to a hunting trip with his cousin Carlo. That was the last time he was seen. Carlo return from the trip badly wounded and told that they have encountered a group of ogres. He had escaped only after he had seen Manfredo killed. (In fact Carlo had planned all this, he had himself killed Manfredo.) Manfredo's son Ruggiero was only 2-years old so Carlo was chosen as a nearest relative to be a guardian during his minority. Carlo di Sfonti Carlo was a son of Giuseppe's younger brother Alessandro, who had died with his wife during the migration in Ac 729. Giuseppe had taken 3-years old Carlo and his sister Constanza to be raised with his children. Giuseppe's third wife, mother of Corrado and Manfredo, had never let him to forget that he was not her child. Carlo had grown to hate his younger cousins who get always what they wanted from their mother. Carlo was happy when Corrado died, because he knew that after Manfredo he was next in line to barony. Carlo was cruel and vindictive but he managed to control these traits so good that Manfredo never realised that Carlo hated him. Carlo had begun to plan killing Manfredo immediately after Ruggiero was born. Only thing Carlo was happy in Ruggiero´s birth was that Constanza died in child bed, so if Manfredo didn't marry again there would be no more children. It took Carlo over two years to realise his plan. Ruggiero lived only 3 months longer than his father. Carlo took the title of baron before the end of year 766. As a ruler Carlo was efficient but hard. There were no rights to complain about his decisions and his taxes, but then again everything worked. He took care about everything, there were not so a small detail that he didn't interfere in. During the years his relatives began one by one to disappear or die in accidents. Until in AC 777 there were left only old Ottone and his young nephew Matteo. In the previous year Carlo had at last agreed to make a military pact with Joachim von Drachenfels and Titus Glantri against the possible Flaemish aggression. Joachim and Titus knew however that they couldn't trust Carlo. So when Ottone and Matteo attacked suddenly against Oreggiano in 777, Joachim and Titus refused to help Carlo. Most of Carlo's troops switched side during the battle and Matteo killed his cousin at the steps of his palace. Carlo was 51-years old. After the battle Ottone was announced as a baron of Sirecchia and people accepted him as their new leader. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:54:29 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects OK, so here's the deal: I'm trying to write a list of famous Mystarans. The list currently appears somewhat like this: Scythus, Jacobus (985-) (MU:1/MU:4/MU:4/Mg:4/Mg:5) Thyatian scribe Stillian (x-) (MU:xx/...) Queen of xxx (y-z) Etc. With the class and level at different times (AC1000/1010/1011/1012/1013 by default) Unfortunately I lack a few materials to make the list complete. I haven't got GAZ14: Atruaghin Clans, and I haven't got any of the AD&D Mystara material. I would therefore appreciate it if someone would take the time and help me out here by mailing me stats from any of these products. Especially year of birth, year of crowning , etc. of the Savage Coast and Red Steel personalities. I've got the original Dragon articles, but I don't know how much new material I can find in these products. Unless anyone mails me their statistics I'll just finish the list with what information I have, and share it with you when it's done. I would of course like it to be as complete as possible, though... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:57:01 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Savage Coast anyone? On Sun, 4 Apr 1999, Rob wrote: > > I think this could be solved by replacing smokepowder with gunpowder. Im > no expert on this, but I dont think gunpowder is all that efficient for > blowing things up. You'd need dynamite and that wasnt invented untill the > 19th C IIRC. And im aiming for a 1600s style campaign. In any case smoke- > or gunpowder should be _expensive_ > > Mmm. Gunpowder is quite adequate for blowing things up, if its in a > confined space... tho not as good as dynamite, of course :-) it was used > to destroy stone bridges and the like. Also, how much damage would you say > 50 charges could inflict to someone? thats only 50 ounces, just a few > pounds of the stuff. And in standard rulz (hopelessly inadequate for > gunpowder, really) that would inflict 50d2 damage (ouch) in a pretty sizable > blast radius.... I think the main problem with using gunpowder to blow up things is to direct the explosion. Ie: if you wanna blow up a mountain, you have to drill holes in the rock and put dynamite in it, not just lay a barrel of gunpowder on the outside, because too much of the explosion will be wasted. That doesnt mean being close to a barrel of gunpowder when it blows up isnt dangerous... > Thats not a poke at you, im just interested on how you would deal with this > sort of thing... Yep, Im having trouble with this part myself. I think im gonna post a question about this on news or sumething.. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:16:55 -0700 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock >Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") It wasn't orginally placed anywhere specific, but when they reproduced it as part of the In Search of Adventure module pack (B1-9) they placed it into Karameikos with the Forest of Cam being several hours north of Threshold. Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 08:44:55 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock >From: Richard Drozdik >>Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") >It wasn't orginally placed anywhere specific, but when they reproduced it >as part of the In Search of Adventure module pack (B1-9) they placed it >into Karameikos with the Forest of Cam being several hours north of Threshold. He he thanks for your answears ... My question was silly : what can't we found around Treshold ! ;^) Good evening ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:16:40 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel >*BUT*, I really do recall this little manscorpion tribe in HWA that >represented the last of a certain way of life for manscorpions, and >it seems to me that this is just plain weird, considering all the >cultures that got ditched. < Yes, I remember those manscorpions too. IIRC, though, they weren't really an independent culture per se ... more like a spin-off of the Nithian Empire. They spoke Nithian and used Nithian weapons; their culture wasn't unique to themselves, any more than the Gaz10 humanoids' various "copycat" cultures -- Yellow Orkia, Ogremoor, Red Orcland, South Gnollistan; respectively copied from Ethengar, Sind, the Atruaghin lands, and Ylaruam - -- are unique to the humanoids. My guess is that these guys weren't preserved for their own sake, but got "piggy-backed" into the HW, along with Nithia itself, because manscorpions had some special cultural significance to the Nithians (e.g. they're a traditional foe for a major Nithian fighting-order or cadre of mages). This is comparable to how horses -- hardly an endangered species! -- got sent to the HW along with the Jennites, who couldn't have maintained their nomadic culture without their steeds. >And yes all those cultures you've >mentioned might be there...somewhere. There's a lot of undeveloped HW >to inhabit.< Not as much land as it'd take, to put stuff like another Thonia or "Blackmoor 2.0" there. Remember that the largest continent is already pretty jam-packed with empires: the Azcans, Nithians, and Milenians each occupy a HUGE region, and are extremely well-informed about the neighboring territories; so you'd think, if there was another major power on Iciria, one of them would've discovered (and declared war on) it, by now. There's room for little valleys, and perhaps one empire or a pair of warring empires on each of the other 3 continents, in the as-yet-undeveloped parts of the HW, IMO. >But then, being tricksters, couldn't they have gotten their hands (or >whatever appendage) on a time-artifact allowing them to go back and >wreak havoc? < Okay, I suppose they could do that. I doubt if even Korotiku could get away with it more than once, though -- at least, not without the whole Sphere of Time getting royally cheesed off at him -- so please, don't have the ol' Spider make a habit of it...! ;-) >Well, IMC I just decided that they have. And there are >some Blackmoorians hanging around in the HW, being protected by the >Spell of Preservation, and the rule of no direct Immortal >intervention... Of course they're stuck where nobody has any >real contact with them (like the Gentle Folk), and they have huge >limits on their technology.< I guess the reason I'm leery about this, is that it sounds an AWFUL lot like the situation for the Blacklore elves: trapped in the middle of nowhere with their technology, cut off from contact with outsiders, and probably bored out of their minds. How would you make these HW Blackmoorians sufficiently unlike the Blacklores, to make a visit to the former culture any different from a visit to the latter...? I'm just wondering how you plan to keep your players interested, is all. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:26:43 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: B8 Journey to the Rock >>From: Richard Drozdik >>>Where the module B8 is set up ? (it's "Journey to the rock") >>It wasn't orginally placed anywhere specific, but when they >reproduced it >>as part of the In Search of Adventure module pack (B1-9) they placed >it >>into Karameikos with the Forest of Cam being several hours north of >Threshold. Karameikos became the "default" location for so many adventures, simply because that was the portion of the KW which was being marketed the most by TSR! There's a "non-canon" timeline for Tuma -- part of one, anyway -- on Stan's MML Archive. It places the lost city from B8 in Darokin, and is considerably more interesting than B1-9's lame retro-fit, IMHO. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:36:27 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1010)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1010) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:39:21 -0400 An Alternate Timeline for Alphatian Events After the Wrath of the Immortals: Opening Note: The events described herein are to be considered alternate events to what was published in the Poor Wizard's Almanac (TM) series, and the Wrath of the Immortals (TM) boxed set. Under no circumstances should this effort be construed as a denigration of either of these works, or of the Mystaran Net Almanac. This is merely an effort to explore "what might have been", had events in Alphatia been slightly different following the Wrath War. Fall, AC 1009: A great bolt strikes from the blue, touching upon Sundsvall. The entire city glows with a white-hot intensity, and explodes in a mighty pillar of fire. The shockwaves extend for 600 miles in all directions, toppling buildings, opening crevasses, and altering the courses of rivers. At the epicentre, a mile-wide crater sits where the imperial capital once graced the landscape, surrounded by broken lands, toppled boulders, and pools of magma. The explosion also hurls many tons of dust, dirt, and ash into the atmosphere, blanketing the region in a dark grey haze. The Doomsday Weapon created by Rad has been successful. All over the empire, chaos ensues as news travels of the event, and as the total damage is estimated. Empress Eriadna and the Grand Council are no more, and a large portion of the skyfleet stationed over the mainland has likewise been destroyed. In the surrounding region, thousands have died due to collapsing buildings, explosions, and fires raging across the land. Many of the central kingdoms, suffering the brunt of the disaster, descend into anarchy. Those farther away try to close their borders to the strife. Alphatian soldiers outside the empire, who were engaged in a planned assault on Glantri, withdraw to Alphatia once news spreads of the disaster. Discipline breaks down as soldiers, eager to return home to ensure the safety of their families, find any means possible to leave. Those soldiers occupying Thyatian regions of the Isle of Dawn are quickly thrown out during the ensuing strife. Winter, AC 1009: Due to the heavy dust clouds in the sky, the winter in Greater Alphatia is unusually harsh, with extremely bitter winds blasting over the land. Many more people die from exposure to the elements, especially those still living in the mostly-depopulated kingdom of Vertiloch. Elsewhere, some members of the Grand Council, who survived the disaster only because they were not in Sundsvall at the time, meet in Skyreach, Floating Ar, to try to rebuild the central government, and hopefully choose a suitable heir to the imperial throne. Among the outlying kingdoms of the empire, Thothia alone is relatively unscathed. Having its own traditions dating from before Alphatian domination, as well as a high level of autonomy - even for a kingdom on the Isle of Dawn - the absence of contact with the Alphatian motherland does not cause very many adverse effects. The people simply carry on, and heed their pharaoh and his advisors. Many towns throughout Esterhold erupt in civil strife as Jennite slaves, hearing of the blow struck against the empire, revolt in a bid for freedom. Although in some places the revolts manage to displace the oppressive colonial regimes, they are rapidly put back into place, and repercussions are severe. Thousands of slaves manage to flee into the interior, but thousands more are brutally tortured and executed, their deaths made into examples to prevent such uprisings from happening again. Spring, AC 1010: By this time some of the dust has fallen back to earth, but the damage has been done. Many agricultural fields are covered with a thick layer of dirt and ash, and the reduced sunlight has meant that crops will not grow as tall and healthy as in previous years. Imperial officials conclude that the empire could very well starve unless more food is brought from the colonies - not even the total magical power of the surviving wizards is enough to deal with the problem. Elsewhere, the some Alphatian kingdoms on the Isle of Dawn begin instituting their own government policies, some of which openly contradicting Sundsvall's old ones, to deal with the social unrest, since the central government, what remains of it, is paralyzed. This is also complicated by the fact that the kingdom of Thothia, seeing the power vacuum that has developed, has undertaken a policy of state-building. Envoys are sent to Trikelios and Ekto, urging them to look to Thothia for protection and guidance in the hard times ahead. Thothia portrays neighbouring Thyatis as a predatory empire, waiting to pounce upon the eastern colonies of the Isle of Dawn, now that the empire is in disarray. Reactionary, imperialistic elements have gained political influence in Thothia over the past months during the turmoil, to the extent that even the Pharaoh is partially sympathetic to their speeches in favour of a resurgent Thothia - a Thothia Mystarans will be forced to respect, and above a kingdom that will be able to live outside the Alphatian shadow. The kingdoms of Bellissaria withdraw from the outer world, in an attempt to stabilize conditions within their own borders. Summer, AC 1010: News of the great disaster, and the resulting unrest and disorder in Alphatia, has spread to the free Jennites living east of Esterhold. The great chieftains of the various tribes decide to hold a meeting to discuss the significance of this development. The consensus developed is that the hordes of the free people of the plains should assemble in readiness, but that they should wait for a sign from Rathanos before going west. One Jennite shaman, inspired by Rathanos, begins to spread the word of the impending wave of retribution against the Alphatians. In Skyreach, which has now become the de facto new capital city of Alphatia, a proclamation is issued on the reformation of the Grand Council. Heralds travel throughout the empire, asking for news of any surviving Council members, and asking those who are found to come to Skyreach to help restore public order, and choose a new heir. Also, the continuing food shortage is discussed, and a draft measure is promulgated, to the effect that more food will be requisitioned from the outer colonies of the empire to help feed the motherland. In the Alphatian Sea, skirmishes between Alphatian and foreign fishermen erupt. With the increasing instability on the mainland, many troops were recalled to restore order, and as a result, patrols of the territorial waters in the north, not deemed to be a priority, have slackened. Now, many fishermen from such places as Helskir, Ostland, Littonia, and Heldann have begun to encroach on Alphatian territorial waters, in search of bigger catches. Fall, AC 1010: A Jennite shaman travels throughout free Jennite lands, preaching that the word of Rathanos will soon be heard, and that the mighty hordes of Jen may at last ride against the Alphatian heathens who have stolen their rightful lands. He then ventures into Esterhold, to preach to the free Jennites living in the interior of the peninsula, in the hopes of encouraging them to rise up against the Alphatians. Elsewhere, a public demonstration takes place in Ydroyas, Frisland. Led by a small group known as the Sons of Argonath, the crowd marches to the town hall, and demands that the flag of Frisland be removed from the topmost spire of the building. They say that, since the Alphatian government has never looked after the needs of Frislanders, and since it seems impotent now, Frisland should go its own way, and not remain subservient to the symbols of the Alphatian empire. The mayor of the town refuses, saying that what the Sons are preaching is rank sedition, and that if they do not break up the demonstration, the Town Guard will be summoned. Immediately, a fight breaks out between the demonstrators and the town officials, which is broken up by the Guard. No one is killed, but there is injured pride on both sides. In the kingdom of Eadrin, the continuing food shortage causes a riot among the populace. Granaries throughout the kingdom are ransacked, and town markets are plundered of whatever edible goods they have. Many Eadrin sailing ships face mutinies as the common sailors discover that many officers are still receiving normal food rations, while theirs have been cut to a subsistence level. Along the coast, several cargo vessels from the Bellissarian kingdom of Dawnrim are attacked by many of these ships, as the sailors quickly plunder them of whatever foodstuffs they are carrying. News of the unrest in Eadrin spreads to Randel, and more troops are sent to its border with the kingdom to ensure that the instability, thus far contained, does not spread. Winter, AC 1010: Queen Eadra XIII of Eadrin issues a proclamation denouncing the attacks on Dawnrim shipping, and on the rampant looting that is still plaguing the countryside. She apologizes to the king of Dawnrim, and orders the capture of the most prominent mutineers. She also orders her soldiers to use "whatever means necessary" to bring order to the kingdom. In Esterhold, Harumaz, the travelling shaman, preaches to a large gathering of free Jennites in the central badlands of the peninsula. He tells them that the blessings of Rathanos are coming, and that if the Jennite people are to prove themselves worthy of receiving His blessings, they must rise up against the Alphatian oppressors who continue to enslave and brutalize those around them, even in their moment of weakness. He portrays the Alphatians as heartless fiends, intent only on despoiling the land and oppressing all free peoples who stand in their way. Many of those present enthusiastically support Harmuaz, remembering their own suffering at the hands of their colonial overlords. Those who do not agree are cowed into silence. In Skyreach, an official proclamation is issued, which states that all kingdoms in Bellissaria and on the Isle of Dawn must increase their agricultural exports to Greater Alphatia by 30% by the end of AC 1011 (AY 2011), in order to avert a food crisis. The response from some kingdoms is immediate. Those on the Isle of Dawn angrily denounce the proclamation, saying that they are too busy trying to maintain their independence in the face of increasing turmoil in the region. Thothia is especially cool to Skyreach, saying that Alphatia's time of dominance is at an end, and that it would be more suitable as a regional leader. Representatives from Norwold echo this response, saying that a large part of Norwold's best agricultural lands are now under the rule of the Heldannic Knights, and more are being lost every day. Both of these regions ask why Alphatia has not sent more troops to help them maintain their own borders. Several Grand Council members snort derisively, and say that they are too busy trying to restore order to the motherland; all available troops are trying to ensure that food is being distributed properly, and that no region tries to go its own way. The representatives from the Isle of Dawn break contact in disgust. In Trikelios and Ekto, clashes erupt between Alphatian and Thothian residents - each blaming the other for the current hardships. Agitators from Thothia also make frequent public speeches in the two cities, claiming that only Thothia can provide the security needed in these tough times. Thothian diplomats have also been applying pressure to the rulers of the city-states, going as far as to threaten military action if they do not enter the Thothian sphere. Elsewhere on the Isle of Dawn, the nations of Dunadale and Hillvale meet to discuss events in the south. Both nations are well aware of Thothia's recent aggressive stance, and they also know that Thothia has long had claims to a large portion of the Isle itself. In the interests of security, the two nations sign a mutual defence pact. Bellissaria sends its own response to the proclamation, saying that while it supports the motion to increase imports of foodstuffs to Greater Alphatia in principle, it must contend with domestic unrest of its own before anything can be sent north. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:36:59 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1011)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1011) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:40:28 -0400 Spring, AC 1011: Another public demonstration, led by the Sons of Argonath, takes place in Witival, Frisland. Again, the demonstrators call for a severing of ties with the rest of Alphatia, and for a concerted effort to look after the needs of the people of Frisland first. Once more, they justify their call for independence by saying that the rest of Alphatia has always ignored Frisland. The Town Guard of Witival attacks the demonstrators with a vengeance, and many are killed. While many people flee, some are captured by the Guard, and are later executed, as an example to the people of the consequences of sedition. The anonymous leaders of the Sons of Argonath proclaim an end to peaceful protest, and pledge to restore to kingdom of Argonath, by force if need be. In Shiye Lawr, a council of the elven clan leaders meets. The increasing instability of Alphatia is discussed at length, the all present agree to close the kingdom's borders to all outsiders, in order to protect their own people. During the following weeks, all humans, dwarves, and halflings present in the kingdom are asked to leave, "for their own protection." In Archport, Eadrin, a massive revolt is staged against the queen. Over the winter, Eadrin's army has crushed many revolts brutally, and several villages have been razed in the process - though this was not ordered by the queen. They demand that Eadra make all food in the kingdom freely available to the people, as food prices have increased so much due to scarcity that most families must steal to survive. Many sailors also demand that officer rations either be cut to the level of the common seaman, or some balance be reached between them. They also ask that all captured mutineers be freed from the dungeons. Eadra refuses to acknowledge these demands, and has a division of the Royal Eadrin Army disperse the crowd. The ensuing fight lasts for an hour, but in the end the army is victorious, using both superior arms and spells. Over a thousand protesters lie dead in the main square. In Trollhattan, Limn, a dwarven trader from the neighbouring kingdom of Stoutfellow is attacked on the main street, and killed. The ambassador from Stoutfellow demands that the troll responsible for the attack be punished, the public opinion is in favour of the troll, Ub-zakk. The government of Limn issues a declaration saying that, due to the continuing food shortage, it cannot be held responsible if visitors from other nations are killed for sustenance, since domestic order is of paramount importance. Residents of Stoutfellow are furious, and all diplomatic contact between the two kingdoms is suspended. On the Isle of Dawn, the cities of Ekto and Trikelios are attacked by a large host of Thothian soldiers. Quickly retreating to their defences, the armies of the city-states are able to hold of the first few assaults, but their common enemy has now overrun the countryside, settling in for a long siege. Thousands of countryfolk flee their homes before the Thothian advance, and within hours each city's population swells far beyond what it originally was. Messages are sent by magical means to Dunadale and Hillvale, pleading for aid. The Thothians, for their own part, do not anticipate this campaign to be very difficult; already plans are being drawn up in Edairo for the conquest of the rest of the Isle of Dawn, and the establishment of a Thothian Empire. While several thousand troops lay siege to Ekto and Trikelios, thousands more are already marching onto the Great Escarpment to claim it for Thothia, while others are heading north, towards East Portage. Summer, AC 1011: While preaching openly in Anchorage, Harumaz is arrested by the authorities. Later, he is put on a public show trial, in which he is accused of fomenting rebellion against the Alphatian authorities. Within moments, he is found guilty, and is publicly executed. Before the executioner's blade descends, he screams, "The Will of Rathanos shall be done, may His blessings fall upon the free children of Jen!" Word of this event spreads like wildfire across Esterhold, and by the time it reaches the free Jennites east of Esterhold, they realize in their hearts that this is the sign they have waited for. As one, they proceed to ride westwards - a force of more than 30,000 horsemen. In Skyreach, the Grand Council meets once again. They review their efforts to restore order to the continent, and they find that they have not been totally successful. The nations of the Isle of Dawn no longer respond to their inquiries, and Norwold is unable to secure a safe shipping line to Greater Alphatia, due to the increased presence of pirates in the Alphatian Sea. A resolution to increase Alphatia's naval presence in the west is discussed, but it soon become apparent that its armies are tied down in too many places, trying to restore order and ensure no fighting arises, to be effective. Magical means to increase crop yields have been successful in kingdoms such as Arogansa and Haven, but most of that produce ends up in local markets. Increased tensions in Frisland, Eadrin, and Stoutfellow also cause some concerns, not to mention the closing of Shiye Lawr's borders. The Council comes to the decision that it might assert more control over the situation, and rule directly. In Trollhattan, Limn, many buildings outside the city walls are put to the torch during the night. As the residents flee, they are cut down by mysterious assailants. The next day, the total damage is substantial - one-tenth of the city has been destroyed in this manner, and over 400 inhabitants have been killed. King Drushiye of Limn issues a formal complaint to Stoutfellow, saying that the animosity of the dwarves towards humanoids is no secret, and that full compensation is expected. Stoutfellow reply is terse, "Know of what you speak, and know yourself, before making such accusations." Just a few weeks after the attack, several villages in the kingdom of Stonewall are attacked by a band of humanoids. Although the casualties are relatively light, King Koblan of Stonewall demands an apology from Drushiye, saying that, as protector of humanoids in western Alphatia, he should account for their actions. No response is forthcoming. On the Isle of Dawn, the Thothian advance is halted roughly 250 miles southwest of East Portage, where stiff resistance from Hillvalian and Dunadaler forces is encountered. Though the Thothian troops possess a greater number of mages and clerics, the defenders know the territory far better, and are able to use it to their advantage. After several hours of pitched battles, the Thothians are forced to pull back to the vicinity of Ekto, where the siege is still underway. Fall, AC 1011: Waves of refugees from the Isle of Dawn begin arriving in the ports of Haven and Greenspur, saying that Thothian forces are gaining the upper hand against the beleaguered defenders of Ekto and Trikelios. Panic spreads among the populace of these kingdoms, as speculation about a possible Thothian regional superpower spreads. In Archport, Eadrin, the royal palace is stormed by a great horde of peasants and sailors. Their number is three times that which was present in front of the palace during the last demonstration, and the soldiers who attempt to hold them back are quickly overwhelmed, and their weapons taken. Some wizards among the group use their spells against the defenders as well, aiding the cause of the insurgents. Within half an hour, and after many loud booms and flashes of light emanate from the palace, the battered and bloodied body of Eadra is dragged through the streets. The leaders of the rebellion, the Vanguard Council, issue a proclamation of their own. They say that the kingdom of Eadrin is no more, and that this land is now the Republic of Alerin. They also say that, as an independent nation, Alerin is open to peaceful traders from all over the world. Those wizards who supported the old queen are given one day to leave, as is Idon II, who was next in line for the throne. Upon hearing news of the revolution in Eadrin, King Verothrics of Randel orders an increase in the number of divisions along the southern border. That border is also closed, and people from Alerin are forbidden from entering Randel. A private meeting is held between Randel's top officials, and it is decided that the Republic of Alerin could become a hotbed of instability for Alphatia. That, and the fact that it has declared independence, make the decision to prepare to invade easy. Many officials present state that Alphatia has been leaderless for too long. The new Grand Council is incompetent, and the various kingdoms are pulling away as Alphatia's neighbours take advantage of the situation. The time has come, they say, for Randel to lead the way and restore order to Greater Alphatia. The queen of Theranderol, Eldrethilia, upon hearing of the revolution in Eadrin, also closes her kingdom's borders with that land. Seeing a chance to gain some territory, she privately issues an order to mobilize the army, and to bolster defences along all frontiers. In Ambur, conditions are so bad that large portions of the kingdom's population abandon their unproductive farms and head south, in search of better lands, after unsuccessfully trying to cope with the worsened climate for two years. The northern regions of Alphatia are still hard-hit from the disaster of AC 1009 (as are other northern realms): Starvation is rampant, and many people are so desperate that the theft of food, and killing for it, is becoming commonplace. In Esterhold, an Alphatian patrol is overwhelmed by a large host of Jennite warriors south of Faraway. A handful of survivors manage to flee to the city, and they report their encounter to their commander. Thinking that this is just another token raid that slipped by the forts, he orders a group of 200 soldiers to chase off the Jennites. Later that week, a lone Jennite warrior rides up to the city gates, holding a small sack. He drops it on the ground, and rides away before any archers of wizards can attack him. The sack is brought to the garrison commander, and, when he opens it, he finds a grisly surprise. In the sack lie the severed heads of the three commanders of Verdan's main eastern forts, and of the leader of the 200 soldiers he sent to deal with the Jennite "nuisance". Before he can react, frightened soldiers run out into the city, screaming that the main forts have fallen, and that an invasion is immanent. Within hours, panic paralyzes the city, and the harbours are clogged with people trying to board whatever ships are present in order to flee the city. Many slaves take advantage of this situation to revolt against their masters. Since they make up roughly 80% of the population, many Alphatians are slaughtered before the city garrison can restore order. Aware of the growing chaos on the mainland, King Norlan of Qeodhar decides his kingdom would be better off on its own. Emissaries are sent to Thyatis, Heldann, and other nations, requesting diplomatic recognition. On the Isle of Dawn, Thothian soldiers break through Ekto's defences, and proceed to rampage throughout the city. Defenders are hunted down and slaughtered without mercy, and shops are looted and burned. Even in this dark hour, stiff resistance is met on almost every street, and the Thothians pay dearly for every neighbourhood they bring under their control. Before the day is done, however, the banners of Pharaoh Ramenhotep XXIV fly above Ekto's spires. Of the 22,000 people living in Ekto before it fell, almost 8,000 died during the siege and subsequent conquest of the city. Trikelios' defences, while heavily damaged from repeated Thothian assaults, manage to hold. What the defenders do not realize, though, is that Thothia has drawn a large number of its besiegers away from the city to finish off Ekto. The city-states have put up far more resistance than the Pharaoh or his advisors thought possible, and they realized that a victory was necessary to bolster morale. Winter, AC 1011: The Alphatian city of Faraway finds itself under siege, as thousands of Jennites march northwards towards the Bay of Thorin. Any ship in the harbour that was seaworthy has already left the city, and those who remain are those too poor to afford passage, and the garrison. Although Faraway's defences are formidable, the defenders are too few to maintain order within the city. Outnumbered four-to-one by the Jennite slaves, they soon find themselves facing a full-fledged revolt, as the slaves, seeing a chance at freedom, try to aid their brethren outside by rioting. By midday, a group of slaves overpowers the guards at the main gate by sheer numbers, and opens the gates. Within an hour, the streets are teeming with mounted free Jennite warriors, who ride around slaughtering any Alphatian they find. Many buildings are set on fire, and anything of value is plundered. By evening, anyone who stood up to the Jennites has been killed, and those Alphatians who survived the attack, numbering less than 500, are bound, and led eastwards into Skothar's interior, for a lifetime of servitude as captured enemies. Angered over continued Heldannic, Littonian, and Ostlander poaching in Qeodharian waters, King Norlan orders the few fighting ships he owns to give chase to the foreign fishermen. In the ensuing skirmishes, many unarmed fishing vessels are sunk, all hands lost. News of these conflicts reaches the other three nations, and they lodge formal protests with the king. True to form, Norlan ignores them. In Shiell, Frisland, King Edjer "the Twisted", while strolling in his private gardens, is attacked by four cloaked individuals. Within seconds, they overpower his guards, and manage to stab the king several times before being forced to flee by palace guards. None of them are caught, but, later that day, a palace attendant finds a folded piece of parchment in the king's bedchambers. Recovering from his injuries, the king examines the note, which reads, "Argonath will rise again!" In the western spurs of the Kerothar Mountains, the gnomish village of Haggem is attacked by a large group of spellcasting goblins. Initially the gnomes manage to hold off the attackers through the use of good tactics, but the destructive power of the goblins' spells soon inflicts too much damage on the town, and the gnomes are forced to flee. Weeks later, the government of Stoutfellow issues a scathing letter to the king of Limn, blaming his kingdom for the attack on Haggem, and demanding that he turn over the goblins in question so that they might be punished. Queen Buthra of Stoutfellow also issues a private order to mobilize the kingdom's army, and advises the king of Stonewall to do the same. She declares that the presence of humanoids on Alphatia has been a threat to civilized folk for too long, and in the absence of central authority, actions must be taken to ensure that Limn never becomes a threat to anyone. News of the fall of Ekto has spread all over the Isle of Dawn, and the leaders of Dunadale and Hillvale meet once more. Though Trikelios is reported to be holding out, spies report that, with Ekto conquered, more forces are available to lay siege to the city. Were it not for the aid convoys carrying food and other supplies from the two nations, Trikelios would surely have fallen by now. Even so, Thothia is bringing an increasing number of ships into the region, and some convoy ships have been destroyed. It is only a matter of time before Trikelios' own battered navy is no longer able to prevent the Thothians from blockading the city by sea. Scouts from both nations have also reported the presence of Thothian patrols further north; full-scale war seems inevitable. The Alatian Islands, having weathered the chaos considerably well thus far, begin to cast nervous eyes towards nearby Thothia. Aeria begins a plan to bolster its military forces, signing a defensive pact with Aegos and Gaity in the process. Ne'er-do-Well proclaims itself to be a neutral state, wishing to take no part in the conflict it knows will come. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #163 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 164 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - Warriors of the Eternal Sun writeup Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia [MYSTARA] - Glantri Questions Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:39:33 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSARA] - Questions from a guy who's been missing for a while At 14.35 26/03/99 +0100, DM wrote: > >He he.. seems like you spied on us a few months ago.. Anyway, this debate >recurs here now and then, and it always ends up with everyone sticking to >his own opinion. The recurring opinions are: >Deities are equal to Immortals and Old Ones are more powerful than Overgods; >Deities are equal to Immortals and Old Ones are Mystara's Overgods; >Deities are more powerful than Immortals and OO are Mystara's Overgods; >Deities and Overgods would be easily eaten up by a draeden; >Alphatia is more powerful than Thyatis; >Thyatis is more powerful than Alphatia; >Who the heck sent that damn attachement to the whole list? > >PS: the last one can also be found as: "Who the heck sent that damn binary >attachement etc etc." ;) >Is Kol a Shadowelf? >Is Wulf a pawn of Synn? >Is Canon unbreakable? >Is war the best way to solve controversies (proposed by Gentle Folk)? >Is the world really Hollow? Marco, you forgot (in random order): Ethengar can conquer Glantri; Glantri can easily destroy Ethengar; The Khan word is law; The Khan word is a lie; Can a RW NATO tank kill a Mystaran mage of 36th level? Can a RW NATO tank conquer Glantri? Can a RW armored platoon conquer Brun? What happened to Daniel Boese? .... :-) ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:53:55 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian Clerics At 13.02 25/03/99 +0200, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: >Which brings up one question: When did Glantri legalize clericism and on >what degree? In the WotI the council is claimed to 'temporarily allow' >clerics in Glantri, in MoA they say that clericism was legalized in 1001 >(!) iirc. And there are still restrictions on clericism. > From PC4: "Night Howlers", DM's booklet, page 43. "Year 1001: Political lobbyists introduce a bill allowing the practice of clerical magic under very strict conditions. Clerics must obtain a letter of sanction from the ruler of the dominion they wish to practice clerical mage within. The ruler has free rein over the term of sanctions–fees imposed, types of magic allowed (healing only, etc.), expiration of the letter, and so forth. Clerics are still forbidden to preach their beliefs, regardless of any letter of sanction, and only Parliament or the Council of Princes may grant a letter of sanction to clerics operating within the free territories of Glantri." Later, during WotI, restriction are temporarily loosened beacuse of the plague. PS: I remember a discussion about this in the early days of the MML (I mean, when Daniel Boese was still here and the list wasn't yet at MPGN.com). Maybe you could check the archives. Good luck. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:44:25 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >> 2-Are there any neighbors in those directions (I'm thinking of some kind of >> M-Caucasian/Kurdish/Central Asian >> cultures)? >Where exactly would you up them? I'm thinking about the forested valleys north of lake Halli across the Black Mountains that are showned on the CoM map of the Great Waste for the mountain dwellers (M-Caucasian/M-Kurds), as for a M-Central Asia setting, I really don't know, it would probably be more appopriate if this kind of culture is located in Skothar as some kind of more civilized Jennites doing trade between M-China and Alphatia (that is if we are following what has been developed by the M-Orient team. BTW what's happening with them? I've been trying to mail something to them for some time but haven't had any answers yet.). >> 3-Is there any canon materials on those regions (north and east of Hule)? >Are you sure you dont mean west? If so check out Red Steel. There are also >fragments of info here and there about the black mountains, which i am >trying to compile into something... Yep, that was west, been for too long in HW it seems... Unfortunately, I've been out of the RPG thing for a while, and I'm just trying to catch up with what has been created since, haa, let me see... 1993! So, I don't have anything connected to the Red Steel setting but what is freely accessible from TSR (Savage Coast+ Orc Head Peninsula). As for the Hule map somebody told me that there is one in X5, which I'm freneticaly trying to find on the web or in the stores (nearly impossible mission, though!). A compilation about Hule and the surrounding regions would be a very useful thing to have since there are bits of information here and there in different products published at different moments, if I can give a hand, let me know. >No, youre just cool :) >I've been considering putting up the trailmaps too, but im too concerned >about damaging them... Refrain the appeal of the coolness, mine are now seriously damaged on most edges :-( Krieg! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:45:22 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system has anyone tried to take Mystara into Hero games Fuzion or Fantasy Hero? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 02:50:17 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste I found the map for Hule in X5, X6 was Quagmire. I sent a copy of the map to Chris. If anyone is intreasted in getting a copy of it email me. I also have the maps for Sind, Quagmire, the Savage Coast & Norwald. Please put ATTN: XXXX Map in the subject section so I don't miss it. Daniel *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:43:21 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >>Where exactly would you up them? > >I'm thinking about the forested valleys north of lake Halli across the Black >Mountains that are showned on the CoM map of the Great Waste for the >mountain dwellers (M-Caucasian/M-Kurds), as for a M-Central Asia setting, I >really don't know, it would probably be more appopriate if this kind of >culture is located in Skothar as some kind of more civilized Jennites doing >trade between M-China and Alphatia Replying to myself, that's a shame... But now that I have a map of Hule, thanks to Daniel, I see that there is much more space left to plant my pet cultures. The M-Caucasians/Kurds would stay where I put them in the previous message. The M-Ouzbeks/Tadjiks could be place either north of Hule (along river Gree or between Rockwater and the Bylot Hills) or in the sout-west just north of the edge of The Great Escarpment (another one!!!), altough the latter seems less likely since there has been a lot of development in the region without any mention of a semi-nomadic trading culture . Any comments about these propositions? Should I go on and add some new cultures in a world that is already quite complex and diversified? Anyone interested? Krieg? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 15:55:41 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: [MYSTARA] - Warriors of the Eternal Sun writeup A few months ago, I promised a writeup of the Sega Genesis game set in Mystara's Hollow World, called Warriors of the Eternal Sun. While I still have only a rough draft, one of the original playtesters of the game has beaten me to it, providing detailed maps and descriptions of the valley and caverns surrounding it. The site is located at: http://www.dnai.com/~opus/games/wotes/valley.html Note that in the walkthrough, there is a link to a more detailed walkthrough at another site, which provides more detail on the actual plot of the game. Between these two sites, you have enough information to construct a campaign or adventure in the valley. Hopefully, I can soon put up a list of monster encounters in the valley, about the only thing left out on the web site. I am still currently working on the other game The Order of the Griffon. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:55:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > to become a cleric. Otherwise, all lay worshippers in Mystara who are > normal humans and are not atheists would be x Lvl clerics instead of 0 > level people!!! I think that, even if it is not a kind of native "gift", > becoming a cleric requires both personal and social optimal conditions: I'd compare it to becoming a rabbi or priest, only needing the deity's direct acknowledgement of your worth. Most people go to church or synagogue, but almost none enter the ranks of the clergy. I, for one, know there are three strong reasons for my not deciding to study to become a rabbi - 1)I don't think I'm smart enough. Mathematics professor I think I could have done - historian as well. The knowledge of scripture, of ritual, of law and of theology...it's just too intimidating for most people. Rabbis who taught me in school always seemed to know everything and I just wouldn't feel capable of possessing all the brainpower required. I could certainly see a similar reason for people shying away from entry into the church of Pflarr or Tarastia or other groups with a heavy emphasis on some type of knowledge. 2)I don't think I have the people skills. You have to deal with many people who look to you for all kinds of advice, and in the case of Catholic priests, you have to be willing to listen to peoples' problems. I am willing to be a social worker and take on other situations and dilemmas, but there is something more involved in being a clergyman or woman. 3)I don't think I can be that moral. You have to be a person your congregation can respect. Practically everybody has sinned - they might not feel themselves deserving of such respect. Many people on Mystara might also fear having to look to their deity, seeking their blessing - they would think "what if I'm not worthy" and never try to become a cleric. Many people IRL probably worry about their ability to live up to G-d's commands and this might sway them from a role in the ministry or other clergy positions - in a world where the power of the immortal(s) is even more visible, how much more fearful the populace would be. > Nevertheless, the idea of "proletarian revolution" through priesthood would > make for a nice campaign plot. I can, on the spur of this e-mail, think of > the following: Sounds interesting. > 2) Kings start reporting to Eriadna: "Thy Highness, peasants are > revolting!!!" Eriadna answers: "Yes, they are ;-) She would say that, wouldn't she? > 4) An Entropic Immortal has a bright idea and starts granting very minor > clerical powers to commoners, without revealing his/her identity. If cleric > proportions had been rising, now there is a true avalanche of > pseudo-clerics on the run!!! Society and economics begin to collapse. Or an entropic immortal encourages the magi to fight back against the evil religious folks. I don't think an anti-religious attitude is too far-fetched among egotistical beings who think themselves superior to any arcane power. Or a non-entropic immortal encourages clerics to create a more just state where religion is taken seriously...heck, if someone like Vanya is behind this a state where fighters, thieves, clerics and all non-mages are taken seriously. The public vs. the mages...sounds good by me. - - Mischa Ordinary men will always be sentimentalists: for a sentimentalist is simply a man who has feelings and does not trouble to invent a new way of expressing them. - G. K. Chesterton *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:06:52 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > Could anybody recite me the sources of info for Heldannic Territories and > Hule. > Heldannic Territories: Bruce Heard wrote a Gazetteer for the Heldannic Knights, which was posted on the MMB. Hule: AFAIK only the X4, X5 and X10 modules, plus sparse info in SC material. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:26:32 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri Questions This time, I have a question for you about the majority quorum in the Council. The Gaz says that 81 or more votes are needed for a law to be approved by the Council. Question is, is this fixed number compatible with the varying total number of votes in the Council? In AC 1000, not even simple majority is needed. As four more Principalities are enfeoffed in the following years, the needed/total votes ratio becomes even lower. This means that two contradictory laws may both be approved, if the Council has a seriours divergence. On the other hand, should the number of Principalities be drastically decreased (one or two more meteors, for example), it could become impossible to make any new law. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:21:01 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ret-cons and Time Travel > >*BUT*, I really do recall this little manscorpion tribe in HWA that > >represented the last of a certain way of life for manscorpions, and > >it seems to me that this is just plain weird, considering all the > >cultures that got ditched. < > > My guess is that these guys weren't preserved for their own sake, but got > "piggy-backed" into the HW, along with Nithia itself, because manscorpions > had some special cultural significance to the Nithians (e.g. they're a > traditional foe for a major Nithian fighting-order or cadre of mages). > This is comparable to how horses -- hardly an endangered species! -- got > sent to the HW along with the Jennites, who couldn't have maintained their > nomadic culture without their steeds. Ok, but should they be protected by the SoP, then? I mean they'd have to have a culture of their own or something to be preserved, right? Or is everything in the HW preserved? And whatever relevance they might have for the Nithians can hardly be preserved when there's a single tribe left... > >And yes all those cultures you've > >mentioned might be there...somewhere. There's a lot of undeveloped HW > >to inhabit.< > > Not as much land as it'd take, to put stuff like another Thonia or > "Blackmoor 2.0" there. Remember that the largest continent is already > pretty jam-packed with empires: the Azcans, Nithians, and Milenians each > occupy a HUGE region, and are extremely well-informed about the neighboring > territories; so you'd think, if there was another major power on Iciria, > one of them would've discovered (and declared war on) it, by now. There's > room for little valleys, and perhaps one empire or a pair of warring > empires on each of the other 3 continents, in the as-yet-undeveloped parts > of the HW, IMO. Yes, I wasn't suggesting Iciria, but that other large continent (that I can't recall the name of). > >But then, being tricksters, couldn't they have gotten their hands (or > >whatever appendage) on a time-artifact allowing them to go back and > >wreak havoc? < > > Okay, I suppose they could do that. I doubt if even Korotiku could get > away with it more than once, though -- at least, not without the whole > Sphere of Time getting royally cheesed off at him -- so please, don't have > the ol' Spider make a habit of it...! ;-) Not to worry; he only did it once - to put some Blackmoorians in the HW. And this really ticked Ordana off (it was a master stroke), but the other Immortals wouldn't allow her to destroy them. So instead she's done just about all she can to make them obscure and to prevent them from interacting with the rest of the HW. > >Well, IMC I just decided that they have. And there are > >some Blackmoorians hanging around in the HW, being protected by the > >Spell of Preservation, and the rule of no direct Immortal > >intervention... Of course they're stuck where nobody has any > >real contact with them (like the Gentle Folk), and they have huge > >limits on their technology.< > > I guess the reason I'm leery about this, is that it sounds an AWFUL lot > like the situation for the Blacklore elves: trapped in the middle of > nowhere with their technology, cut off from contact with outsiders, and > probably bored out of their minds. How would you make these HW > Blackmoorians sufficiently unlike the Blacklores, to make a visit to the > former culture any different from a visit to the latter...? I'm just > wondering how you plan to keep your players interested, is all. I've never used the Blacklores IMC. And the reason that I'm using the Blackmoorians, is because my PC's are in the middle of a time- travelling adventure to ancient Blackmoor. And when they've eventually experienced the Great Rain of Fire and all that, they're going back to the present time (AC 1003 at the moment). And guess where they'll be going next... :) Ordana sure won't like what I've got planned for the Blackmoorians; I wonder if the SoP will kick in here... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:18:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >>Any comments about these propositions? Should I go on and add some new cultures in a world that is already quite complex and diversified? Anyone interested?<< Actually, I am in the (l-o-n-g) process of developing Hule as M-Turkiye (Turkey). I've also pieced together those bits and pieces of Hule from the maps in CoM, SC, SB, etc., and I think all of it is there except for the northwest (unfortunately, this is where Niwhelm, Tros, and Greatrealm are!). I would be happy to brainstorm with you on the matter, if you email me privately. Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:56:40 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control In a message dated 4/8/99 7:18:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << Yep, introducing guns changes the setting. If it didnt, I'd see no point in introducing them in the first place. For gam with guns _and_ fantasy flair I'd recommend a look at Castle Falkenstein, a fantasy game set in an alternative 1870s.>> my point exactly...well sort of. certain cultures lend the need for guns of some form and could be easily adapted to boast them. but to introduce them will offer them to everyone. while guns could fit with Darokin or Minrothad, nations such as the Northern Reaches could not mesh well. in other words, as a whole the AC1000-1020 Mystara may not be a good setting to introduce guns. the reference to an 1870s setting bothers me.due to the industrialization of the world and the most easily recalled time period event of that time, the American Civil War or as we Southerners call it The War of Northern Aggression. However, guns could work well with a Blackmoor period setting...or even in a Mystaran variant such as the non-magical based Heretic World. <> once again...i agree to a point. D&D is not realistic. its fantasy flair is what draws one to it. we agree that guns would cause change, but does one want to undermine one of the key aspects of the fantasy setting? the sword toting fighter is the first PC most gamers utilized...sans the red Basic Rules Box. guns are a powerful entity to introduce into a fantasy setting. given RW timeframes, a matchlock could evolve into a flintlock in little time. heck...using fantasy engineering rules you could have an operating gas recoil weapon in a few game sessions. keeping with the late 1800's timeframe....a Colt lever action or even a carbine such as the famed Mauser could be produced. just imagine what a Colt 45 Peacemaker could do. that's a major jump from matchlocks that are as equally prone to explode in the weilder's face. giving them stats similar to a crossbow is a bit pointless as there is little to gain from it. a modifier against armour could be useful, but would it be any different than what a heavy crossbow should be. the crossbow was the nemesis of heavy armour...though in D&D rules they (and longbows) are underpowered IMHO. just offer a modifier for a heavy crossbow. the rate of fire was roughly the same in RW terms. the 1870's and the Civil War saw the last major battles of the old way of waging war. even then, shifts between the old order and the new were showing as traditionalists like Lee met military noncomformists such as Grant and Sherman. weapons and tactics changed to reflect the massed firepower and attrition that industrialization provided. by WW1 the discrepancies of the old way in a new industralized world were seen by all. eventually, a Mystara with guns introduced will see a "WW1" type conflict where the old knightly order meets the new gun toting industrial order. i am glad that you recognize the changes to society that guns would influence and accompany. i figured that that aspect would have been the least accepted. however, i really did not want to reintroduce my stance from the last time gun in Mystara was discussed here: a tech army's superiority over the local Mystarans. IMO guns are linked to technology and industrialization. guns would bring those aspects into prominence in Mystara, greatly eroding the fantasy flair and the heroic nature of the setting. if you want to bring guns into your own campaign go ahead. it's not like i can stop you :-). just do the weapons justice. don't sugar coat or water them down. portray them as they are and how they would affect the flesh of its targets. i'd suggest using Alternity rules for guns. but since guns and fantasy weapons are to be intermixed in Mystara, i'd suggest a percentage system. afterall a hit by a bullet is a hit. since early types are to be seen, big calibre (50-60) low velocity (subsonic) guns are going to cause some viscous wounds...not to mention amputations. i may post the percentage system i came up with for my Blackmoor project, as well as a few sample weapons. it's a bit harsh on those hit by a bullet...alotting some heavy damage to the victim no matter how many HD he or she has. the gun is the great equalizer...therefore a first level trooper should face roughly the same chances of dying as a 36th level superwarrior. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:53:19 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste In the later issues of the princess ark series they discussed Hule and the Master. I'll have to find what issues their in though. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennifer Favia Guerra To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste > >>Any comments about these propositions? Should I go on and add some new > cultures in a world that is already quite complex and diversified? > Anyone interested?<< > > Actually, I am in the (l-o-n-g) process of developing Hule as M-Turkiye > (Turkey). I've also pieced together those bits and pieces of Hule from > the maps in CoM, SC, SB, etc., and I think all of it is there except for > the northwest (unfortunately, this is where Niwhelm, Tros, and > Greatrealm are!). I would be happy to brainstorm with you on the matter, > if you email me privately. > > Jenn > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:54:29 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia Ok, I'm new here...MMB? Wouldn't mind seeing info on everyone's favorite bad guy (though it seems like the Master is slowly over taking them) - ----- Original Message ----- From: Agathokles To: Mystarophiles assembled Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 4:06 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule, Heldannia > > > On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > > Could anybody recite me the sources of info for Heldannic Territories and > > Hule. > > > Heldannic Territories: Bruce Heard wrote a Gazetteer for the Heldannic > Knights, which was posted on the MMB. > > Hule: AFAIK only the X4, X5 and X10 modules, plus sparse info in SC > material. > > Giampaolo Agosta > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 00:04:03 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system Well.....its' really bad when you have to reply to yourself. I haven't heard any yeahs or nay's yet so I don't know if anyone has tried this or not. With some minor alterations I will be converting Mystara over to the Fuzion system. It'll be in the rough...it'll be in the playtesting stage, but hey, at least it's being PLAYED. I'll be posting a simple character to my website soon, you can find the fuzion rules @ http://wwww.herogames.com/fuzion/ If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. flamers (like kender) will be shot on sight though. - ---- Original Message ----- From: Daniel To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 2:45 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system > has anyone tried to take Mystara into Hero games Fuzion or Fantasy Hero? > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 13:20:28 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Daniel wrote: > Well.....its' really bad when you have to reply to yourself. > I haven't heard any yeahs or nay's yet so I don't know if anyone has tried > this or not. > With some minor alterations I will be converting Mystara over to the Fuzion > system. It'll be in the rough...it'll be in the playtesting stage, but hey, > at least it's being PLAYED. I'll be posting a simple character to my website > soon, you can find the fuzion rules @ http://wwww.herogames.com/fuzion/ Sorry no one replied to your post, Dan. For myself, I've never heard of the systems you mentioned, so I can hardly say I've tried converting. I tend to convert things into D&D rather than to other systems. The closest I've come is using the James Bond system for character creation and combat, but I stalled on that project a while back. Maybe I'll pick it up again at some point. Good luck. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #164 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 165 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system [MYSTARA] - ShoreCon '99 Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule, Heldannia [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Re: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 02:12:30 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system Hero System is what they used to get Champion's, Fuzion is used in BubbleGum Crisis, Champs New Millennium, ATM Votoms, and supposedly what they'll use for Cyberpunk 203x - ----- Original Message ----- From: the Wizard of Frobozz To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system > On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Daniel wrote: > > > Well.....its' really bad when you have to reply to yourself. > > I haven't heard any yeahs or nay's yet so I don't know if anyone has tried > > this or not. > > With some minor alterations I will be converting Mystara over to the Fuzion > > system. It'll be in the rough...it'll be in the playtesting stage, but hey, > > at least it's being PLAYED. I'll be posting a simple character to my website > > soon, you can find the fuzion rules @ http://wwww.herogames.com/fuzion/ > > Sorry no one replied to your post, Dan. For myself, I've never heard of > the systems you mentioned, so I can hardly say I've tried converting. I > tend to convert things into D&D rather than to other systems. The > closest I've come is using the James Bond system for character creation > and combat, but I stalled on that project a while back. Maybe I'll pick > it up again at some point. > > Good luck. > > --Frobozz-- > > ________________________________________________________ > "Evil powers disappear > demons worry when the Wizard is near." > --Black Sabbath > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:38:43 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [MYSTARA] - ShoreCon '99 Greetings. I'm the RPG coordinator for ShoreCon '99, which will be held on September 9-12 1999 at the Hilton in Cherry Hill, NJ. In that capacity, I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for RPG events at the convention. The deadline for event submissions is June 1st, and by visiting you can find complete information on hotel accomodations, online GM registration, and even get on the mailing list to have our pre-registration book sent directly to you. If you are interested in GMing an event, the time to sign up is now! This year I'd like to be able to schedule a wide range of World-Specific events, as well as World-Bridging events (like Planescape or Spelljammer). This year ShoreCon will will be having several special guests, including Peter Adkison - President and CEO of WotC/TSR, Steve Jackson (of Steve Jackson Games) and Jolly Blackburn, creator of KotDT! (Several other guests are as yet unconfirmed... watch our website for updates!) Thanx for your time... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:49:24 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste In a message dated 08/04/99 03:53:23 GMT, you write: << I once had both Trail Maps hanging on a wall, does it mean that, at that time, I was super-cool? mega-cool? hyper-cool? ;-) >> Me too! (and none of the AD&D Trail Maps came anywhere NEAR the Mystara ones for coolness - although, to my shame, I bought them too...:-/ ) Carl Q (who fondly remembers the time he had enough disposable income to buy practically EVERY new TSR product each month...and whose game shop were so pleased, they gave a discount for cash and an annual free TSR catalogue so I could plan my spending for the next year! Ah, the memories...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 07:32:20 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Hule, Heldannia >Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 23:54:29 -0500 >From: "Daniel" > >Ok, I'm new here...MMB? Wouldn't mind seeing info on everyone's favorite bad >guy (though it seems like the Master is slowly over taking them) The MMB is the Mystara Message Board. You can get there by accessing the news server tsronline.wizards.com them MMB is the group TSR.OOP.Mystara But since ike most newsgroups the old messages go by the wayside then you can find old articles catalogued at my homepage, in my .sig. The interesting articles from this mailing list are also collected there. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 17:57:51 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer I am working on a new gazetteer style land called the northlands. These lands will consist of Wendar, The New Alphatian Empire (Which now is centered in Alpha, the largest city in Norwold) and a new kingdom ruled by six houses (two human, and one of each other race) called Orsikland which is located north of Wendar, northeast of Heldanna, west of the Great Plateau, and now controls parts of Norwold. Too my knowledge these areas have only been detailed in a few products, Wendar in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, Norwold in Dawn of the Emperors (I know there are more adventures, but as of yet I have seen anything that would cause a contradiction of the words presented about Norwold) and finally Orsikland has never been detailed and, apparently, the land there has never been detailed either. Any ideas? (Note: I am already way into Orsikland so if this would be totally impossible, any ideas on how I could rework them?) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 17:39:22 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics At 13.14 28/03/99 +0300, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: >I say that the DotE claims that any user of magic who reaches ultimate >mastery is allowed. >(Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a >36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he >can't cast 7th level spells...) Well, IMO he has reached Ultimate Mastery in _his_ craft: i.e. Avenger's (or Paladin's) Magic. This is the requirement to enter the Council, isn't it? PS: IMC I allow only 36th level mages to be part of the Grand Council, anyway I agree with Jamuga here. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:33:43 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram I've just finished reading M1: Into the Maelstrom and I noticed that the leader of the Gammarians is His Radiance Halzunthram. Any connection with the Alphatian warlord Halzunthram, that conquered Glantri in 788 AC and was later defeated and captured by Lord Glantri in 828 AC? Opinions? Bruce? ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@lunet.it rafiel@geocities.com brizio@gdr.net DM in City Of The Stars - Mystaran Almanac Assistant Student of Aerospace Enginnering - ICQ #1688817 Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 09:05:47 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention >Non-European: >You can sign up for the convention. You can sign up for the >convention just to get the gift if you wish to (anyone can do that, >actually). Just an added plug for non-European members. If you want to come to the convention, but cost is a problem, there is a possible way for you to recoup the expense. There are a few RPG shops in the Latin Quarter (near Notre Dame Cathedral, the one Esmeralda got tossed off by the hunchback). They have D&D and AD&D material on sale for hundreds (and thousands) of Francs (hundreds of Canadian or American dollars). They might be willing to buy used stuff you don't need anymore for very respectable prices. Just a thought - Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 16:24:25 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > >(Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a > >36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he > >can't cast 7th level spells...) > Well, IMO he has reached Ultimate Mastery in _his_ craft: i.e. Avenger's > (or Paladin's) Magic. > This is the requirement to enter the Council, isn't it? I'm not going to start a debate on this subject; but _*IMC*_ Ultimate Mastery on avenging or paladinhood is not enough, as the requirement is the ultimate mastery in magic-use (magical or clerical). - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:38:38 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > I agree with this idea; many people would see clerical careers as an > alternative to a life of near-servitude (as RW peasants in the Middle Ages > would see becoming monks as an alternative to a lifetime of ploughing the > earth), but, do not forget that it takes more than mere desire or devotion > to become a cleric. Otherwise, all lay worshippers in Mystara who are > normal humans and are not atheists would be x Lvl clerics instead of 0 > level people!!! I think that, even if it is not a kind of native "gift", > becoming a cleric requires both personal and social optimal conditions: It seems that I should have written my idea a little bit more explicite: Of course, by posing as a protector of the lower classes an immortal does not instantly create hundreds or thousands of clerics. But by helping those under-privileged people an immortal would create a broad basis of devote followers. This alone is not too bad for an immortal as he cannot know what might happen to his old followers. On a long term there will be many men and women from these followers who could become clerics. To become one a series of special traits and abilities are necessary. In this point we agree. Of course many people should have those. At this point I'm wondering if this has already happened in Alphatia. As we all know, after reaching level 2 a cleric will become a noble and he is no longer a commoner. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #165 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 11 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 166 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Gun Control [MYSTARA] - Secret Art of Shadow Mastery [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:47:46 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > I am perfectly aware of that. But what you said was why didn't all > those 36th-level dudes do something about Thothia. And I assumed that > you meant why didn't they go to the Isle of Dawn and kick Thothia's > butt (since that was what the troop movements string was actually > about). And that was what I was referring to when I said that the > commoners have no reason to whine. They certainly don't care about > the Emperor's war (sure, some of them do), it's his expansionist > tendencies not something that affects their lives. At least it was against the Thyatian nature as magic is "effective", but it were the Thothians to use this effective way. Of course this did not pose a problem for the commoners. Some legionnairies were fighting and dying in a distant country - business as usual. > And as for curing the grain disease, they had people working on it, > but it was far too massive a problem for even a few hundred cool > clerics to deal with. I'm assuming that literally hundreds of > thousands of people were affected here, and there really *are* limits > to a cleric's power. So yes, the common peolple might be mad at some > clerics but not for the reasons I was talking about. And since there > were some clerics trying to clear up the problems, they might actually > not be mad at all... There are at least 250 wizards of level 36. It is reasonable to assume that there were even more clerics of level 36. All those spellcasters together should be able to quell the plague in only one day or so. They didn't. Why? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 20:02:20 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram At 05:54 PM 4/10/99 -0400,Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > >I've just finished reading M1: Into the Maelstrom and I noticed that the >leader of the Gammarians is His Radiance Halzunthram. >Any connection with the Alphatian warlord Halzunthram, that conquered >Glantri in 788 AC and was later defeated and captured by Lord Glantri in >828 AC? > >Opinions? Bruce? I noticed the same thing myself. I imagine it's just a matter of liking the name, and reusing it later on (if you notice, Bruce wrote GAZ3 and M1). He does the same thing in other places, notably the use of Cucurbita Pepo, a druid, in module CM7: Tree of Life, and in the Voyage of the Princess Ark (in Robrenn). If you'd like, you can certainly make a connection between them (they're both Alphatians, after all- IIRC, the Gammarians are one of the surviving Alphatian groups that remained in Old Alphatia, fleeing to one of the larger moons or shards of the planet). Probably a distant cousin or relative. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:28:13 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste >In a message dated 08/04/99 03:53:23 GMT, you write: > ><< I once had both Trail > Maps hanging on a wall, does it mean that, at that time, I was super-cool? > mega-cool? hyper-cool? ;-) >> > >Me too! (and none of the AD&D Trail Maps came anywhere NEAR the Mystara ones >for coolness - although, to my shame, I bought them too...:-/ ) Back when I was an undergrad, I managed to fit ALL the maps from Gazetteers 1-12 on the long wall of my dorm room! Thus, my collection of maps now has thumbtack-holes in the corners. My suitemate thought I was nuts, of course.... ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 23:40:27 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control ><< Yep, introducing guns changes the setting. If it didnt, I'd see no point > in introducing them in the first place. For gam with guns _and_ fantasy > flair I'd recommend a look at Castle Falkenstein, a fantasy game set in an > alternative 1870s.>> There's very few games that incorporate guns with fantasy, but there are some rather good novels that blend the two. Some good ones that spring to mind are "Goblin Moon" and "The Gnome's Engine" -- their author is Teresa Edgerton; I think they're OOP, so check used bookstores for them -- and a fairly recent Earth-plus-magic novel (first in a series; I'm blanking on the author's name) called "Newton's Cannon". For a "folk magic" series set in colonial America, check out Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" novels. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 11:35:29 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Roger Zelazney's Amber Chronicles comes to mind, mixing Fantasy and Guns. True, it was a mix of modren to fantasy, the character going from modren day to amber, then back again for guns. the 2nd book expecialy when Corwin and his commandos storm Amber and beat back an entier fantasy army. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Dornhoff To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 1999 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control > ><< Yep, introducing guns changes the setting. If it didnt, I'd see no point > > in introducing them in the first place. For gam with guns _and_ fantasy > > flair I'd recommend a look at Castle Falkenstein, a fantasy game set in an > > alternative 1870s.>> > > There's very few games that incorporate guns with fantasy, but there are > some rather good novels that blend the two. Some good ones that spring to > mind are "Goblin Moon" and "The Gnome's Engine" -- their author is Teresa > Edgerton; I think they're OOP, so check used bookstores for them -- and a > fairly recent Earth-plus-magic novel (first in a series; I'm blanking on > the author's name) called "Newton's Cannon". For a "folk magic" series > set in colonial America, check out Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" novels. > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 00:00:16 -0700 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Mystaran Gun Control >There's very few games that incorporate guns with fantasy, but there are >some rather good novels that blend the two. Some good ones that spring to >mind are "Goblin Moon" and "The Gnome's Engine" -- their author is Teresa >Edgerton; I think they're OOP, so check used bookstores for them -- and a >fairly recent Earth-plus-magic novel (first in a series; I'm blanking on >the author's name) called "Newton's Cannon". For a "folk magic" series >set in colonial America, check out Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" novels. My personal favorites for dealing with the emergence of guns and/or engineering technology on a fantasy world would have to be "Guardians of the Flame" by Joel Rosenberg (7 books) and "The Seventh Sword" by Dave Duncan (3 books). Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:49:01 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Secret Art of Shadow Mastery Hello All Here's a new Secret Arts for Alphatia, running along pretty similar lines for the Glantrian Secret Crafts. Any and all ideas and comments gratefully accepted. Secret Art of Shadow Mastery "Now I'm going to do demented rabbit." - - Alec, first circle Shadow Master With thanks to Bruce Heard for his suggestions and ideas. This power was first created in the Alphatian Kingdom of Stonewall where it was powers were first laid down by Lothar and Meliande, twins - one of whom is a Magic User and the other a Thief. At this time the secret craft was a single entity as it were but as time went on new powers were created, and original powers were used in such a way that the practitioners used them in competition against each other. The sense of competition is not two-sided*, it is more simply any Master of Shadows for themselves. In this way Masters initiate new members into their craft more so as minions which they might employ against another Master of Shadows rather than fellow seekers of knowledge. But a great number of Shadow Masters do not merely rely on initiates as pawns in their power games, many a slave has been used to undertake less savoury tasks. [* I'm not intending this to be a thief vs mage sought of competition, the secret craft start with these two factions more so to allow both classes to use the powers in the present. Though of course the nature of competition between two individual Masters of Shadow may involve a thief vs mage aspect.] Rules The rules for the Secret Art of Shadow Mastery are similar to the rules for the secret crafts of Glantri. Students must learn new powers, and they must find someone to teach them those powers. Attainment of new circles of power also require additional experience points to reflect the learning required for the new powers. The powers gained through this art are natural abilities and do not affect any spell casting powers of the Shadow Master. The cost to acquire new powers is not given to any central body of Shadow Masters, it is usually used by the teaching Shadow Master to further their own studies, costs can also vary widely. Circle Cycle Cost Experience Experience Level # of Uses (days) (crown)(Magic User) (Thief) 1st 14 500 5 000 10 000 5th 3 a day 2nd 28 1 000 10 000 20 000 7th 2 a day 3rd 42 1 500 20 000 40 000 10th 1 a day 4th 56 2 000 35 000 70 000 15th 1 a week 5th 70 2 500 55 000 110 000 20th 1 a month Thieves as Shadow Masters As said above thieves can enter the secret art of Shadow Masters. Those who intend to enter the craft must have a minimum intelligence of 13 or more, this is a restriction based upon the learning required to gain knowledge of the circle powers. As in the table above, thieves also require additional experience points to acquire new circle powers, this is a further restriction based upon the learning required. Innate Powers Study in the Art of Shadow Mastery gives the participants certain innate powers which have no cost or restrictions, these powers are gained once two first circle powers have been attained and are learnt merely through constant study and usage of shadows. Shadow Masters gain the ability to see normally within shadowy areas, their sight is not affected by diminished light - although darkness affects them normally. Shadow Masters of the magic user bent gain the ability to Hide in Shadows as a thief of one third, rounded down, their level; Shadow Masters of the thief bent increase their ability to Hide in Shadows as a thief of two levels higher. Shadow Mastery and Infravision All of the Shadow Master's powers are described herein in terms of their effects on the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum - light, but of course there are other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. There's the near infra-red part of the spectrum that some species have access to, and gain information from. There seems to be no reason why Shadow Mastery should not also be able to affect this part of the electromagnetic spectrum though a Shadow Master wishing to directly affect the infra-red spectrum would conceivably need to have infravision to have a knowledge of what they are affecting. Known Powers of the Craft Below are a summary of the most commonly known and utilised of the craft powers, though new powers can, and are created through continuous study and field-usage. Circle Powers 1st Shadow Puppetry Shadow Ward The Melting 2nd Expel the Shadow Lowering the Shroud Meld Shadow Post 3rd Form Inversion Shadow Hop Shadow Manipulation Substance 4th Infuse Shadow The Harrowing 5th Shadow Forge 1st Circle Shadow Puppetry This power allows a certain surface area of shadows to be manoeuvred and played with at the Shadow Master's whim. When utilising this power the Shadow Master needs to concentrate on an area of shadow no greater than 1 square metre per level and they can move the shadows over any surface at will. The Shadow Master can manipulate shadows of a desired degree of darkness and move them into slightly more well lit locations, as long as the shadows maintain a visual connection with the darker area. This power can not be used to move shadows into well lit areas or into areas, any attempt to do so fails. This ability to manipulate shadows lasts for 1 hour or until the Shadow Master looses has their concentration broken. Recent utilisation of this power has enabled Shadow Master's who have attained the second circle of Shadow Mastery to create a looping shadow effect that lasts for 1 hour without concentration. A single loop of the shadow effect can be no longer than 30 seconds and continues during the duration until magically dispelled or until the area becomes well lit. Shadow Ward With the employment of this power the Shadow Master creates a halo of bright light which emanates from the Shadow Master and extends 5 metres away from their person. No shadows, or shadow-like creatures can enter bright halo around the Shadow Master and any that attempt to do so are repelled away. The effect lasts until dispelled, or until the Shadow Master attacks any shadows or shadow-like creatures. This power has recently been employed by Shadow Masters onto other objects. If the other object is a living being then the power lasts until dispelled, or the warded being attacks any shadows or shadow-like creatures. If the power is invoked upon an object then the power lasts until dispelled. The Melting When invoked this power forces shadows within an area of 20 metres in diameter to disappear. The process manifests itself with the shadows visually falling into themselves and appearing to melt - the power is quite obvious and would be noted by anyone in the area. The effect lasts until dispelled and any objects entering the area of effect also loose their shadows in a similar fashion as above. Any large objects which cast shadows into the area of effect loose their shadows at the border of the effect, whilst any large objects in the area of effect which cast their shadows outside the area of effect gain shadows at the border of the effect. 2nd Circle Expel the Shadow With this ability a Master of Shadows can effectively cause the shadow of the target to disappear, the subject essentially casts no shadow. The subject of this power can be any inanimate object or it may be a living being and to successfully employ the power the Shadow Master must touch the subject - if this power is being used in a combat environment then a successful to-hit roll must be made. Once employed the shadow of the subject disappears instantly as if a source of light existed coming from all directions for the subject, and unless they are observant a living subject might not notice the removal of their shadow. Once a shadow has been expelled from something then the effect remains on the subject regardless of whether the subject moves and the power lasts until dispelled. This power has been used by practitioners harass superstitious or simple people, and in such circumstances once the person realises - or is made to realise - that they may become quite unsettled. The power has also be used by Shadow Masters to mark particular items or people that are of interest, and it is rumoured that the power was once used to perform a secret aerial attack from an airship once. The power can also be used in lieu of Dispel Magic to expel a shadow being otherwise used by another Shadow Master. If this is the case, then those powers explain further the chance of success and effects of this power - though for any powers created within the campaign this power will tend to have more serious consequences than Dispel Magic is used to affect shadows used or employed by other Shadow Masters. The size of the item which may be affected is dependant upon the level of the Shadow Master, * [* I'm not sure what limits to put to this. The power when first gained should be able to be used on most sized people, though I intend at the higher levels 30+ that an enterprising Shadow Master could conceivably expel the shadow from say … a floating continent, things like airships fit somewhere in between] Lowering the Shroud With this power the Shadow Master can divert light from their vicinity. To use this power the Shadow Master concentrates on the desired darkness level they want within 100 meters radius, plus 10 meters per level. The desired level of light is then effected almost as a ripple emanating from the Shadow Master as light is diverted away from the desired area. This power lasts for up to 1 hour, plus 1 turn per level, although no further concentration is required to maintain the power during this time. The area of effect can be adjusted during this time with concentration from the Shadow Master, although any such adjustment reduces the time remaining by 1 turn. This power cannot be used to completely remove the light from an area. Meld With the use of this power the Shadow Master may meld their body into that of their shadow and to maintain this form for a number of turns equal to their level. Whilst in this form a Shadow Master is aware of things occurring within the vicinity of the shadow although they may only see things in one direction at once. Also whilst melded a Shadow Master may not communicate by normal means with other people, may not cast spells or use abilities that require action on the part of the Master - other abilities which only require thought may be undertaken as normal. Also whilst in this form the Master of Shadows may not move their shadow except through means such as the first circle power Shadow Puppetry. When this power is employed the Shadow Master can be seen to be drawn into their shadow. Anything that being carried by the Shadow Master is similarly affected by the Shadow Master though if another creature is being grappled when this power is employed that creature may make a successful saving throw vs spells to save from being drawn into the shadow. Another person may successfully dispel a Master whilst they are melded, which requires the surface on which the shadow is appearing to be touched. If a Master of Shadows is drawn back from their shadow in this way they must make a roll on d20 against their constitution to stop from being knocked unconscious for a few minutes by the transfer. Shadow Post When instigating this power the Master of Shadows concentrates wholly on a certain shadow that they believe to exist, for example they must have visited the area before, or have seen the area through other means. If a shadow exists in the area when the power is instigated then the Master of Shadows need only to concentrate to re-establish contact with the shadow and begin to hear and see as if they were situated where the shadow was. If the shadow has been removed from when the Shadow Post was first instigated then the power needs to be re-invoked to form another Shadow Post. If the area where the shadow is being used is lit up whilst the Master of Shadows is using it, or the power is dispelled, or if the Master of Shadows is still using the power when it comes to it's natural conclusion, then they are deafened and blinded for a few minutes unless they make a successful d20 roll against their constitution. If the shadow being used is removed via the second circle power Expel the Shadow whilst it is being used then the Shadow Master must make a successful d20 roll against their constitution to save from being knocked unconscious for a few hours due to the sensory assault. Once a Shadow Post has been instigated then the Master of Shadows can reuse it any number of times within a number hours equal to their level. Any number of Shadow Posts may be maintained at any one time, though of course only one may be used at any one time. 3rd Circle Form Inversion This power turns a person into a living two dimensional shadowy version of themselves, or back again if the power is being used on a person who has already been affected. A person in this form can move, see and hear things normal but they can have no physical affect on the world around them. They cannot touch things or communicate verbally with other people. They can also not cast spells requiring the manipulation of physical things, though they can cast spells or use powers that do not have these restrictions. The shadowy version of the person can pass through areas of shadow whilst in this form though. If the person attempts to move through areas of bright light or sunlight, or areas of utter darkness then their movement rate is halved. If light or darkness spells are cast at a person whilst they are in this form they suffer 1d8 points of damage each round whilst in the area of effect, this also occurs if sunlight or bright light is specifically collected and directed at them. This power has been used by powerful Shadow Masters to affect the minions of rival Shadow Masters, or as a unique form of torture. They also use the power on their own minions to make instant spies. Shadow Hop When invoked the Shadow Master can hop from a shadow that they are inhabiting to another shadow within 500 meters. The Shadow Master thinks of a location that they want to hop to within a 100 metre radius and then they are teleported to the nearest shadow to the desired location. When the power is invoked the Shadow Master has 5 "hops" which they can use within the period of 1 hour, if all the "hops" are not used within this time they are lost. Shadow Manipulation This power is an extension of the first circle power Shadow Puppetry, though with this power the shadows being affected are perceived to be three- dimensional. The volume of shadow being affected can be up to 1 cubic metre per level of the Shadow Master, the power is otherwise similar to Shadow Puppetry - above. Substance Without this power the shadows dissipate naturally in sunlight, bright light or utter darkness, but with the activation a Master of Shadows can lend an area of shadows a degree of substance so that they can exist even in the brightest sunlight or the pitchest darkness. To activate this power the Shadow Master picks out a given area (or volume if this power is being used in conjunction with the third circle power Shadow Manipulation) of shadow within in area of 20 metres diameter, the specific area of shadow is then immune to dissipation through sunlight or darkness or other natural means for a number of turns equal to the Shadow Master's level. Once an area of shadow has been given substance the Shadow Master can manipulate or otherwise use the shadow for whatever purpose without affecting it's substance. 4th Circle Infuse Shadow This power allows the Shadow Master to imbue an area of shadow with a limited degree of intelligence, the shadowy area also has a number of hit points equal to the level of the Shadow Master employing it. The shadow which has been infused is under the absolute control of the Shadow Master creating it and it can follow simple orders given to it. The Shadow Master can communicate telepathically with the shadow, and issue it commands telepathically, and can choose to see and hear through the shadow as the second circle power Shadow Post. The infused shadow has a movement rate of 90'(30') and can only travel through areas shadow. The shadowy area can be dispelled normally and if light or darkness spells are cast on it, it suffers 1d8 hit points of damage whilst in the area of effect; similar damage is suffered if sunlight or bright light is concentrated and aimed at the shadow. The shadowy area cannot be armed in any other way. If the shadowy area is killed or dispelled the Shadow Master creating it suffers a loss of hit points equal to their level (equal to the hit points which the shadowy area itself had). The shadow area remains sentient for a number of hours equal to the level of the Shadow Master, at the end of this time the shadowy area looses it's sentience though the Shadow Master suffers no hit point loss due to this. The Harrowing This is a particularly nasty power that has been used to drive other people mad, or cause their deaths through increasing their unease. When used the Shadow Master locks a particular shadowy effect onto an individual. The effect follows the targeted individual constantly and haunts them whilst awake and in their dreams. The person affected believes that they are being haunted by evil creatures or dark forces that are either just in the corner of their vision, or lurking in a nearby shadow. The individual sees manifestations of three- dimensional shadows groping towards them out of darkness, or even attacking them at times whilst they are being harrowed. To invoke the power the Master of Shadows has to have concentrated on a set of guidelines for the exact effects of the harrowing to affect the individual, the effects can be as general or specific as the Master of Shadows desires but they must consider the effects of the harrowing for a little while before using the power. The harrowing of the individual continues until it is lifted by the Shadow Master who called it or until it is dispelled. Use of light spells or other powers such as Expel the Shadow have no real effect on the harassing effects, such powers may remove particularly visible effects of the harrowing but the effects just outside the corner of the eye still continue. The person who is being harassed by this power must make an horror rating check* at level 5 when this power is first invoked against them and then every week thereafter that the power is still affecting them at a +1 increased level. [* the whole horror rating thing is part of Geoff Gander's rules on horror and insanity in Mystara. He should be making the rules available for everyone shortly] 5th Circle Shadow Forge Once invoked the Master of Shadows can use this power to create objects made out of solid shadows. These objects once made are permanent and exist until dispelled, or until a light or darkness spell is cast directly upon them though the objects exist even in sunlight. The objects made look like pale ghostly imitations of real objects and are obviously not natural, they also cast no shadows in and of themselves. The power can only be invoked if the Shadow Master is in a shadowy area, and it lasts for as long as the Shadow Master stays at the task of shadow-forging and only whilst they stay in an area of lighting present when the power is invoked - therefore a significant change of lighting discontinues the ability to mould shadows, as does activity requiring a significant degree of concentration, and sleep. When the power is being used the Master of Shadows can create 1000 cn worth of shadow matter per hour of forging. There is no limit to the size of object that can be made with this power, the only constraints exist in the amount of time needed to be spent on the object. An object not finished with one use of this power has a 50% chance of dissipating when used. The objects created by this power function exactly as normal objects would. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:52:55 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani Hello All Here's a new Secret Arts for Azca, running along pretty similar lines for the Glantrian Secret Crafts. Any and all ideas and comments gratefully accepted. Thanks to Mytaros for the name, it was the Secret Art of Essence Manipulation prior to his help. Secret Art of Xolotlani This is a discipline which, although not prevalent, is practised in the Azcan culture by some of the few mages that exist within it. A similar system can be discovered by any other culture that practices sacrifice of living victims, though practitioners of this craft should be kept under the purview of the DM and NPCs. 1st Circle Gain Essence: This is the basic power of draining off the essence of a still living victim and gaining it in ones-self. The essence gained is limited to the amount of unhealed hit points that the mage has though they may temporarily, for 3 rounds, gain an excess of essence equal to their level. If this essence is not expended within 3 rounds it dissipates. The amount of essence that may be gained from the victim is limited to the number of hit points that they currently have, and a loss of essence is directly translated into a loss of hit points on their part. A roll of 01 causes the mage to transfer to the victim the number of hit points that they themselves were attempting to gain. If this power is being used on a Soul Store, see the third Circle power Soul Storage, the receptacle is broken on a roll of 01. Heal: With this power the user may by touching a person transfer their own essence to that person, thereby healing them. An amount of hit points worth of essence equal to the level of the mage may be transferred using this power. A roll of 01 causes the essence to be expended upon the part of the mage though the intended receiver of the essence doesn't gain anything. 2nd Circle Essence Transference: This power allows the mage to act merely as a conduit between two other people, one of whom is having essence transferred from themselves and the other to whom is receiving the essence. The amount of essence to be transferred is restricted to twice the level of the mage. A roll of 01 causes the essence taken from the first person to be lost, whilst the intended recipient gains their essence from the mage. 3rd Circle Mass Heal: This improvement on the first circle power allows the mage to transfer essence to other a group of people equal in number to the level of the mage within an area of 50' of the mage. The mage may expend an amount of hit points equal to twice their level using this power. A roll of 01 causes the essence to be expended to no effect. Power-up: This ability allows the mage to expend hit points to temporarily increase a physical attribute. Physical attributes that may be gained using this ability include increase of 1 point of strength, constitution, dexterity or charisma or increasing movement rate by a third. The use of this power requires the user to expend 4 hit points of essence per use for an increase of the ability for 6 rounds. The ability may also be used to increase the chance by 50% of performing some difficult physical task such as jumping over something - the use of the power also requires the expending of 4 hit points but the power only lasts for an instant. A roll of 01 causes the essence to be expended but for either a temporary, 12 rounds, decrease of 1 point of strength, constitution, dexterity or charisma or one third decrease of movement rate. A roll of 01 when the power is being used for an instant event decreases by 50% the chance of that event occurring. Soul Storage: To use this power a mage must have a suitable receptacle, a Soul Store, for which the essence is to be stored. To make this receptacle should cost 100 gp per hit point of essence to be stored and should take 1 day per 8 hit points of essence to be stored to make. With a suitable receptacle the mage may transfer their essence into the storage receptacle using this power. Essence may be released from a container using the gain essence power. A mage may use the receptacle of other mages if those mages are silly enough to leave them lying around. A roll of 01 causes the mage to loose the amount of essence they were intending to pour into the receptacle and for that receptacle to be broken. 4th Circle Mass Drain: This improvement of the first circle power allows the mage to transfer essence from a group of people equal in number to the level of the mage within an area of 50' of the mage. Similarly to the Gain Essence power the amount of hit points that may be gained is limited to the amount of unhealed hit points that the mage has though they may temporarily, for 6 rounds, gain an excess of essence equal to their level. If this essence is not expended within 3 rounds it dissipates. The amount of essence that may be gained from the victims is limited to the number of hit points that they currently have. A roll of 01 causes the mage to transfer to the victims the number of hit points that they themselves were attempting to gain. 5th Circle Expend Essence: This awesome power allows the mage to permanently increase a physical attribute as outlined above. 8 hit points of essence need to be expended to employ this power and these hit points can only be healed by natural rest at the rate of 1 hit point per seven nights of uninterrupted sleep. A roll of 01 causes the mage to permanently loose in equal proportions whatever physical attribute they were trying to effect, similarly the hit points expended on an unsuccessful usage of this power are lost permanently. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #166 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 167 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control Re: [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea [MYSTARA] - Secret Art of Shadow Mastery Re: [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:35:55 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control >Roger Zelazney's Amber Chronicles comes to mind, mixing Fantasy and Guns. >True, it was a mix of modren to fantasy, the character going from modren day >to amber, then back again for guns. the 2nd book expecialy when Corwin and >his commandos storm Amber and beat back an entier fantasy army. Anyone ever read a book called Grunts? It was a lot younger than I am now, but I remember it being really funny. It was about some orcs who found some AK-47s in a dragons lair... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:36:54 GMT From: Lyndon@pobox.com (Lyndon Baugh) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control The four book (so far) shared world of LIAVEK, edited by Will Shetterly and Emma Bull, with a host of others contributing, has magic and gunpowder, and early steam power, railroads and airships. It also has how nervewracking it is having a naval battle with enemy mages trying to blow up your gunpowder ... They are out of print now, but if you see one at a library or used book store they are well worth getting. The stories vary of course in quality and tone, from excellent to just depressing, but 90% of them are ones I'd recommend to a friend. Poul Anderson's OPERATION CHAOS had magic and WWII level technology, in fact it was having WWII when the first story opened. MIDSUMMER TEMPEST has early industrial revolution and magic. Harry Turtledove's CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL DUMP is set in late 20th century America where magic works, so of course you have magical pollution ... the hero is an overworked member of the Environmental Protection Agency needing to decide, among other things whether letting Leprechauns into Los Angeles will disturb the spiritual ecology. The CIA agent really is a "spook". ETc. James Schmitz's WITCHES OF KARAS has starships and stuff that acts an awful lot like magic. Melissa Scott has a trilogy with alchemically powered starships starting with FIVE TWELTHS OF HEAVEN Tim Powers DRAWING OF THE DARK has Merlin and the return of King Arthur at the siege of Vienna by the Ottoman Turks in 1522, and lots of puns. Several of his other books ON STRANGER TIDES, ANUBIS GATES ... have magic and various technology levels. And of course any vampire or werewolf story that has silver bullets mixes magic and fairly advanced technology. Note: Many of these were written before D&D rules were, and none are concerned with being TSR rule compatible. Some of the stories will shoe-horn into D&D rules, some won't fit in D&D rule magic system without a lot of folding, spindling and crunching. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:09:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control > There's very few games that incorporate guns with fantasy, but there are > some rather good novels that blend the two. Some good ones that spring to > mind are "Goblin Moon" and "The Gnome's Engine" -- their author is Teresa > Edgerton; I think they're OOP, so check used bookstores for them -- and a > fairly recent Earth-plus-magic novel (first in a series; I'm blanking on > the author's name) called "Newton's Cannon". For a "folk magic" series Also check out Martha Wells' City of Bones, which is somewhat futuristic, but also very much a fantasy setting. Plus, thankfully, it is contained in one novel. I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but the module IM1 offers rules for firearms in OD&D. - - Mischa One of the great inconsistencies of the welfare "reformers" of recent years has been their insistence that welfare mothers go to work while simultaneously opposing the child care facilities that would make that possible - Walter Cronkite, 1996 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 10:11:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani > Here's a new Secret Arts for Azca, running along pretty > similar lines for the Glantrian Secret Crafts. Any and all > ideas and comments gratefully accepted. Thanks to Mytaros Sounds interesting, but I don't have GAZ3 - can someone explain the Secret Crafts concept to me so I can better understand these? - - Mischa *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 12:05:14 -0300 From: "Carlos Yoder" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Idea DL got cancelled? Whoopie! Bungo ICQ 3435297 >Hello everybody and I just wanted to say something, I like Dragonlance, Red >Steel, and Mystara and I had an idea. Since I like all of them, what would >one think if I put them all on the same world? Any Ideas? They would all be >close together and would trade, I like the idea and since they are all out of >print maybe it could help revitalize those settings. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:51:53 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Secret Art of Shadow Mastery Wow, Stan. A Masterpiece. I am quite worried about the presence of magic powers in thieves, that could unbalance them some. Here is some changes I _would_ suggest: 1) In D&D, thieves cannot use scrolls before level 9. I would change the table of the powers so that the level required to a thief is different from that of a mage - may be as different as to double it. (or, may be better adding 5 levels). This will prevent them from using any magical power before level 10. 2) In GAZ3, to any magical power, is associated a -usually nasty- countereffect if a 1 over a d100 is rolled. The effect is nastier if the power is more powerful. Did u think to something like that for your powers? 3) IN D&D, thieves have some chances of failure reading a magical scroll. May be, such problems could be well represented by increasing the chance of failure of pooint 2) for thief class. 4) The problem I have is that I do not want my thieves to be as good in magic as wizards... not even in one special field as shadows. The problem you could have is that -if I understand well - with such changes the thieves will never be as good as wizards in this secret art... but the difference in the Hide in Shadow will loikely be enough in balancing it. Of course, as usual, just suggestions. - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:58 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Secret Art of Xolotlani On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Here's a new Secret Arts for Azca, running along pretty > > similar lines for the Glantrian Secret Crafts. Any and all > > ideas and comments gratefully accepted. Thanks to Mytaros > > Sounds interesting, but I don't have GAZ3 - can someone explain the Secret > Crafts concept to me so I can better understand these? > The Secret Crafts are (secret) societies of wizard within the Great School of Magic. Wizard who join a Craft receive extra powers, similar to spells but treated as natural abilities (no memorization). Gaining a power requires a time of studies, a price to be payed to the teacher, and the "sacrifice" of a quantity of XPs. Using a power requires a d100 roll. Success chances depend on the difficulty ("circle") of the power and on the wizard's level. There are 5 circles for each Craft. First circle may be joined at fifth level, while the others are available at higher levels. Fifth circle is reserved to the Grand Master of each Craft, and this position is assigned by duel. Currently, there are 10 Crafts: Alchemy, Witchcraft, Illusionism (or Dream Magic), Elementalism (4 different Crafts), Necromancy, Dracology, Cryptomancy. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 11:14:29 +0100 From: Michael K Jones Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara in Fuzion or Hero system Well I'm in the process of converting Mystra over to RoleMaster, it's just taking time and will probabily be a few more months before I finish it. Flossy the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: > On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Daniel wrote: > > > Well.....its' really bad when you have to reply to yourself. > > I haven't heard any yeahs or nay's yet so I don't know if anyone has tried > > this or not. > > With some minor alterations I will be converting Mystara over to the Fuzion > > system. It'll be in the rough...it'll be in the playtesting stage, but hey, > > at least it's being PLAYED. I'll be posting a simple character to my website > > soon, you can find the fuzion rules @ http://wwww.herogames.com/fuzion/ > > Sorry no one replied to your post, Dan. For myself, I've never heard of > the systems you mentioned, so I can hardly say I've tried converting. I > tend to convert things into D&D rather than to other systems. The > closest I've come is using the James Bond system for character creation > and combat, but I stalled on that project a while back. Maybe I'll pick > it up again at some point. > > Good luck. > > --Frobozz-- > > ________________________________________________________ > "Evil powers disappear > demons worry when the Wizard is near." > --Black Sabbath > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #167 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 168 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Maps and Such [MYSTARA] - Alt. Timeline: Shadow Elves Re: [MYSTARA] - Alt. Timeline: Shadow Elves [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia Needed ... Re: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control [MYSTARA] - A couple dozen spells... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:46:38 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps and Such For those of you who asked for maps..I forgot all about it (dodging stale pizza an empty coke cans) I'm kidding I'm kidding! FYI the only chance I get to see my son is on certain weekends. Seriously I'll be scanning them all today (and rescanning the one from Hule btw). I will be makign them all .pdf files so you'll need adobe reader for them (but..but..I thought EVERYONE had that program). As for the Hero/Fuzion question, I'll let it rest for now. I am converting the Known & Hollow World over to those systems (slowly, REAL slowly) and putting up a web site as I go along. (Now all I have to do is find my copies of GAZ13 & Red Steel (sighs) bet my ex-wife has those.....any SINGLE woman who's into role-playing email me @..what? I can't advertise? man, it's one of those lifetimes.....) AHEM...sorry, this is what i get with 2 hours sleep....I would like to thank the people on the list for making me feel welcome. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:48:44 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alt. Timeline: Shadow Elves Just a dumb question for the group. Has anyone ever done an alternete timeline where the Shadow Elves didn't take over Alfheim but instead left exodus style west towards the Savage Coast or north towards Norwold? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:12:36 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alt. Timeline: Shadow Elves On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Daniel wrote: > Just a dumb question for the group. Has anyone ever done an alternete > timeline where the Shadow Elves didn't take over Alfheim but instead left > exodus style west towards the Savage Coast or north towards Norwold? I dunno why the SElves would do this, however. They have a lot at stake in their caves, and it really would take a lot to get them to close up shop. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:36:56 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia Needed ... Hear Ye Hear Ye ... Ciao all ... I e-met a young (19) italian called Alessandro (rol@mail.clio.it) from Vasto ... This poor man want to play rolegame but it seems he can't find anyone who knows rolegame by where he lives. I know you're many Italian on the MML that's why i forward this "Call for Help" ... Roleplayers are a great family ... and i'm sure one one you might help him (certainly more thant me ...). The call is launched Marcus, Foreign Knight >From: Alessandro Roberti >Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 18:45:39 +0200 >>>No, sorry, even if I'd love to play rolegames. Once, I played a MUD, but there was no RPG, just xp-run and eq-run. :( >> Try it once to see ... Don't you know some that play rolegames in >>your town ? there might be ... >No, this is the reason for I don't play rolegames. :( >Unfortunately, they are nearly unknown here in Vasto... >I know this may sound strange to you, but I myself was aware of them >through the internet... >Perhaps now you see what I mean by boring, with regard to my town. :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:00:42 PDT From: "GUIDAULT Marc-Antoine" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention >From: "DJ Sahlas" >>Non-European: >>You can sign up for the convention. You can sign up for the >>convention just to get the gift if you wish to (anyone can do that, >>actually). > Just an added plug for non-European members. If you want to come to the >convention, but cost is a problem, there is a possible way for you to recoup >the expense. > There are a few RPG shops in the Latin Quarter (near Notre Dame >Cathedral, the one Esmeralda got tossed off by the hunchback). They have >D&D and AD&D material on sale for hundreds (and thousands) of Francs >(hundreds of Canadian or American dollars). They might be willing to buy >used stuff you don't need anymore for very respectable prices. > > Just a thought - > > Jim Sahlas You're right Jim ... but beware some stuff are not so costly : Here, X1, X2 B2 -> B7, CM1 are not looked for as there're plenty in French ! Beware too to Red boxes, Expert and companion boxes as they were edited in French. Gaz 1 and 2 is also not seeked (i saw them last week at 30 FF (~$6US$)). I live in Paris but won't be able to be in vacation at that time ... (sniff :^( ). I'm furthermore looking for B9 B10 B11 X9 CM5 and CM9 and ready to pay from 100FF to 150 FF each ... Send me e-mail if interested ... Marc-Antoine GUIDAULT à mag@mel.teamlog.fr ou chasnans@hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/7837 // Mystara http://www.geocities.com/Area51Comet/6275 // Magnamund http://www.geocities.com/Cavern/4867 // Intro to D&D & RPG ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:13:36 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Gun Control In a message dated 4/10/99 11:41:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: << There's very few games that incorporate guns with fantasy, but there are some rather good novels that blend the two. Some good ones that spring to mind are "Goblin Moon" and "The Gnome's Engine" -- their author is Teresa Edgerton; I think they're OOP, so check used bookstores for them -- and a fairly recent Earth-plus-magic novel (first in a series; I'm blanking on the author's name) called "Newton's Cannon". For a "folk magic" series set in colonial America, check out Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" novels. >> I can add: Someone has already mentioned Harry Turtledove. you can add a couple of other books by him. "In the Balance" is part of a trilogy about aliens invading earth. earth's peoples have evolved greatly and are more advanced than the hunter gatherers they expected. the aliens land amid WW2 in full bloom. Axis and Allies ally to meet this threat. There is also a Civil War period novel "Guns of the South" where anti-American agents use timetravel to go back and offer Lee and his troops a few thousand AK-47s. though the AK-47 toting Rebels beat the Yankees, the whole thing blows up in the timetraveler's faces and their goals to disband the USA are dashed. David Drake's "Ranks of Bronze". a novel about a Roman Legion taken captive and sold as slaves to ... what turns out to be...aliens. the aliens use them to fight corporate backed wars against worlds whose own armies are considered primative. something about thei laws forbid them from using their technological advantage. the alien tech allows the romans a sense of immortality and they fight on. Drake also put out a trilogy based on his "HammersSlammers" series called "The General". in it you'll see rapier toting soldiers marching alongside fusion powered, iridium alloy hull hover tanks. Ken Mitchum's "New Barbarians". book 2 in a series on a Rome that never fell. i cannot recall the title of the first book. the book itself is interesting as tech is used in the roman sense. you also have the Romans discovering and settling North America, where they meet with the native americans and throw down with the Aztecs. Michael Kirkland's "Tomorrow Knight" is about a false earth created to amuse interplanetary tourists. the planet is regionalized to showcase different historic periods...the majority centering upon wars. the protagonist is a young Crusade period soldier who stumbles upon the true nature of the planet. with the help of fellow conspiracy buffs and a sympathetic tourist chickie babe he sets across the psuedo earth seeing these different period pieces. his goal is to catch a starship and travel to the real earth to report this atrocity in lives for amusement purposes and get some answers. it's a fun read with the characters trying to rationalize some of the inconsistencies and regular peculiarities of daily life. massing of Guests aboard Flitter Ships before major battles. regularity of epic battles with the same recycling of the same tactics which lead to the same outcome. Mark Twain's "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court". demonstration of turn of the century tech being introduced into a feudal society. portrayed in Twain's style it is an easy and fun read. You could also view the movie "Army of Darkness". a fun movie with a definite fantasy setting. you could also view "Krull" and see ax toting criminals, a trident toting cyclops, a shapeshifter, a mage, and a armor clad knights duking it out against a techno-magical entity and his minions bent on world domination. not to mention that killer three bladed quasi boomerang and prophesies..i love prophesized heroes. also falling into the movie category is "Dune". imo the movie came across as more feudal than the book. set in the future, it has some definite feudal aspects. There are also several books that would fall into the category. Unfortunately, i cannot remember the exact particulars for title and author. "Vault of the Ages" (forget author) is about a futuristic post nuclear war earth where society has reverted to a simpler feudal system. tech is all but forgotten even shunned as taboo magics. the protagonist's (btw- son of chief) home domain is threatened by the Lan, a people living in the wastelands to the north. the nearby ruined city offers salvation, but the old tribesmen are against it. the first encounter with the Lan is disasterous for the locals. the chief's son is blamed for his frequent trespasses into the ruined city and his want to use the discovered technology. as the war progresses the hardliners (and the Lan) are convinced that not all tech is evil. the waning chapters has the war being for control of the tech as much as the domain's farmlands. btw- i suspect this book had some influence in the DA series. "Camelot" (author forgotten) is about a planet named Camelot that has the fantasy/feudal atmosphere...they got magic, knights, and dragons. the more advanced governing planetary federation sends in an agent to assert authority and prevent a potential/prophesized disaster/plot. this guys has all these normal looking techno enhanced weapons and armour. (cannot remember title or author) is about a false earth created to amuse interplanetary tourists. the planet is regionalized to showcase different historic periods...the majority centering upon wars. to name a few the Crusades, the Civil War (aka War of Northern Aggression), and WW2 are seen. the protagonist is a young Crusade period soldier who stumbles upon the true nature of the planet. with the help of fellow conspiracy buffs and a sysmpathetic tourist chickie he sets across the psuedo earth seeing these different period pieces. his goal is to catch a starship and travel to the real earth to report this atrocity in lives for amusement purposes and get some answers. the fun part of the book is his coing with the new gizmos and events he encounters. he (and others) also ponders many of the inconsistencies of the wars. he ponders the centuries long stalemate of the crusades. he notes the southerners remarking on the regularity of the climactic gunnery battles of the Monitor and the Mirremack (sp). also he notes the regularity of a daily slave revolt in one town and the weekly epic battles between the Saracens and Crusaders. he also notes the fact that the planet has two moons whereas his history lessons and common earthly lore tells that earth has but one moon. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:42:21 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - A couple dozen spells... Gratitude for these Glantrian dweomers go to my players. If you want to add these to any compendium or grimoere, please do notify me where you are putting them. But they are free to use. Spelling (etc.) may also be changed freely. - ------- Giverny Vingot (978-1000), an Averoignian werewolf-mage, who died betrayed by his friends as they found out he was a werewolf. Dal-Kher Virayana (980-), a Krondaharian generalist mage, believing in diplomacy and politics instead of 'nuking them till they glow'. Sire Halfar Erewan (1002-), an Erewan elf, adopted in 1002 by Carlotina Erewan. No one knows from where he came, as there exists absolutely no records of his past. He worked in the Glantri City as an emissary from Darokin until he got fired accused of murder of Alphatian wizard in Darokin 1004. Baron Valentino of Ylourgne (978-), a Klantyrian mage, who was latter known as kin of the Shadow Elves. His eventful life begun from being a son of a traitor, raising eventually to holding the barony of Ylourgne. Sire Halfar's Noise Level: 1 Range: 0 Duration: 20min AoE: 15m radius The caster can make any sounds come from the borders of the radius, like distant music, crowd speaking, horses galloping... Only people within hear the sounds, the noise cannot be loud enough to prevent conversation inside. Sire Halfar's Elven Form Level: 1 Range: touch Duration: 6h AoE: one elf or human The Elven Form can only be cast on unresisting elf or human. The caster may create an illusion changing the appearance of the target of any kind of elves he knows. So, he could make a Belcadizan appear a Shiye elf, or a Karameikan appear a Shadow Elf or a Schattenalf appear an Erewan, and so on. The spell changes ears, pattern of skin and eyes, but does not make the target unrecognizable -- Stefan Karameikos the Shadow Elf will be recognized as himself. The voice of the target is not changed. Sire Halfar's Distraction Level: 1 Range: 25m Duration: special AoE: one person Distraction puts the target (who gets no saving throw) into a trance-like state, he does not notice this spell cast on him. While this spell is in effect, he can only see things usual to him or directly dangerous. He can see his son walking on the street, and a crossbow pointed at him on point blank range, but not a horde of orcs passing by a gate he is guarding. Loud noise, direct attack or anything that would awake a sleeping person dispels the distraction. Sire Halfar's Fake Sickness Level: 1 Range: 10m Duration: 12h AoE: 1 person The target of the spell is deluded to think he has gotten ill. The caster may produce any weakish symptoms of any known diseases, from nausea to tickling and from high temperature to constant sneezing. These effects do not game technically hinder the victim, but can be very unpleasant. The target is allowed to save vs. spells to cancel the effects of Fake Sickness. Tracking Spell Level: 1 Range: 50m Duration: 1h / level AoE: a mark with 1'' diameter. Tracking Spell creates a small but visible bright red mark on target's skin or clothes. The mark cannot be removed without cutting it away, but if cast on skin, the target is allowed a save vs. spells. The caster knows the exact location of the mark as long as they are on a same plane of existence. The target never notices when the Tracking Spell is cast on him -- even if he makes his saving throw. Photograph Level: 1 Range: touch Duration: instantaneous AoE: 8'' * 8'' cm picture Target piece of parchment 'catches' the rays of light hitting it perpendicularly. In effect, taking a photo. There is no need for flashlight, but the caster should take care that the parchment is straight when taking a photo. Practice makes perfect with this spell. Don Alfonse's Cloak of Shadows Level: 1 Range: 0 Duration: special AoE: self Cloak of Shadows protects caster from being seen (normally or with infravision), if he is in shadows or behind even a small object (like crouched behind a chair). He must stay still or he is visible. The spell lasts until the caster is hit by direct sunlight or the spell is dispelled with Light or Dispel Magic. Dal-Kher's Puddle of Glue Level: 1 Range: 10y Duration: 2 minutes AoE: 10 square yards The spell creates a free-formed puddle of glue, looking like water. It may be cast directly underneath a person or an object. Everything touching the glue (or running into it) is sticked hard into it. The person who is standing in the puddle can be torn free with combined strength +d10 of 26, but it is much harder to free someone laying in the glue. Dal-Kher's Counterspell Level: 1 Range: 50m Duration: Instantaneous AoE: one spell Counters one spell cast by someone. The Counterspell may be cast at the same moment the counterspeller SEES someone beginning a spell -- he must know that spell is coming. The Counterspell only works on wizard spells, not clerical (etc.) magic or magic items. The chance of success is seen from the following table (caster being the counterer). spell level Caster level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1-5 3 3 4 5 6 - - - - 6-10 2 3 3 4 5 6 - - - 11-15 2 3 3 4 5 6 6 - - 16-20 2 2 3 4 4 6 6 6 - 21-25 2 2 3 3 4 6 6 6 6 26-30 1 2 2 3 3 5 6 6 6 31-35 1 1 2 2 3 5 6 6 6 36 1 1 1 2 3 5 6 6 6 The success is rolled on d6. Dal-Kher's Hypnosis Level: 1 Range: 10' Duration: 10min + 1min/level AoE: 1-4 persons The targeted intelligent humanoids, who fail the saving throw vs. spell, become very easily persuable by this spell. If the spell is targeted on a single target meeting the caster's gaze, he rolls save with -2 modifier, but if the targets suspect something or are wary towards the caster, the DM may adjust the save for their favor. Targets making their saves know that the caster tried to enchant them, but the caster does not know that his spell failed. Dal-Kher's Vomit Level: 1 Range: 100y Duration: Instantaneous AoE: 1 person The target's stomach is instantaneously emptied in a rather vulgar way. He is unable to do anything on the round the spell hit him, and is too weak to do anything on the next round either. His strength is temporarily lowered by six, but he regains one point on every subsequent round. If the target has 9 HD, he is allowed a save vs. spells. This spell has no effect on ingested potions, but against alchemical or natural poisons it may have an effect. Dal-Kher's Propeller Level: 1 Range: touch Duration: 2 min or 1h AoE: one propeller This spell creates a force field in a shape of propeller, with 30cm diameter. It can be attached or detached from any nonliving surface during the duration. It can be used with full power (for 2 minutes), giving an aquatic vessel propulsion for reaching 40mph speed, or with economic settings (for an hour) giving 15mph speed. It weighs 10lbs, so it cannot be used as a weapon, but it can be used as a hybrid of a chainsaw and an axe, for cutting trees etc. Dal-Kher's Glamour Level: 1 Range: 10m Duration: 1h / 12h AoE: 1-10 persons, within 20 square feet / level of caster Glamour gives its all targets a glamorous aura, keeping their hairdo fine and ties straight, making jewelry glitter and keeping their makeup good. The spell only affects the persons as long as they are on designated area, which is also given a dim lighting. If a target leaves the area, and then re-enters it again, the spell is returned and works on him again. Within the area, the caster can create infinite minute cantrips concerning lights, illusions, shadows and auras. If anyone on the area opposes the spell, it wears off in an hour, otherwise it lasts for 12 hours. Dal-Kher's Nobility Enchancement Enchantment Level: 1 Range: 25y Duration: 1h AoE: 1 being This spell gives the target four points of Cha, with the identical restrictions to the Dexterity Enchancement Enchantment, and it's reverse (Dal-Kher's Uglity Utterance) drops target's Cha by four points, as the Anti-Agility Aura). Sir Valentino's Partial Paralyzation Level: 1 Range: 200y Duration: varies AoE: 1 arm or leg This spell paralyzes one caster-chosen arm or leg of the target. Target is not allowed a save vs. spells, but on every subsequent round, he gets a save -4 to regain the control of his arm. The arm doesn't feel anything on do anything while the spell is in effect. Works only on man-sized creatures arms, legs and wings. Sir Valentino's Manhole Level: 1 Range: touch Duration: 1h AoE: 6' deep and 4' wide manhole Manhole creates an illusion-covered traphole on ground. The spell affects only natural landscape, not paved streets or marketplaces. The hole forms slowly (10s), so anyone standing on the area of effect may easily jump away. The illusion does not vanish as someone touches it, but the people in the manhole can see through it. After the spell ends, it fixes the landscape as it was before the spell, and anyone still trapped in the manhole is freed. Sir Valentino's Warmth Level: 1 Range: touch Duration: 5h AoE: 1 target Sir Valentino's Warmth protects one man-sized creature or object from natural coldness, keeping his body temperature in 36 celsius degrees. Unwilling target (this spell would be lethal to many creatures) is allowed a saving throw. Warmth protects also against magical coldness, reducing d6 points of cold damage every round. Sir Valentino's Fly-Form Level: 2 Range: 0 Duration: 1h AoE: the caster Fly-Form changes the caster into a fly. The transformation takes one round after casting the spell, during which the caster can do absolutely nothing (even defend himself). The objects carried are infused into his new form. If caster is damaged in any way during the transformation or after it, he reverts to normal form, taking still the damage from the strike. The flying speed of a Fly-Formed mage is about twice his walking speed. In addition, the Fly-Form gives the caster an invisibility to relatively small birds and frogs. Sir Valentino's Field of Protection Level: 2 Range: 0 Duration: 1min AoE: the caster This spell creates a faintly glittering ellipsoid-shaped field around its caster. It protects against physical damage for two points for every level of the caster. It does not help against magic (except magical weapons), acid, heat, suffocation... After absorbing the damage, the spell ends. In addition, if the caster is damaged with magic, the spell is weakened -- if he gets on a way of a Fireball, both he and his field are devastated. Sir Valentino's Life and Death Level: 2 Range: touch Duration: 1 round AoE: 1 living target. This spell drains target's life force (hitpoints) transferring them to the caster. On the first round, the Life and Death must be casted, and it takes its effects on the next round. On the next round, the caster must touch the victim (armor does not protect against the spell). If he scores a hit, he drains d10 points plus a point per caster level hitpoints to himself, save for half. Only one of these spells can heal the caster every day, and it doesn't regrow limbs or do anything similar. Sir Valentino's Earth-Staff Level: 2 Range: touch Duration: varies AoE: 1 earth-staff Earth-Staff transforms a piece of stone into a stone quarterstaff +2. It retains its form as long as the caster touches it physically. If the caster lets it go for more than five minutes, it turns back into a piece of rock. Seal Level: 2 Range: touch Duration: until broken AoE: coin-sized seal This spell creates a little wax seal, bearing any symbols the caster wishes. The spell ends when the seal is broken or dispelled or enters anti-magic spell. Also, the spell ends if the object it protects is cut or destroyed. When this happens, the caster knows the seal has been broken, and magically sees the face of the person who broke the seal. The range is unlimited. Dal-Kher's Fishform Level: 2 Range: 0 Duration: 1h AoE: self Fishform changes the caster into a ½' long fish. The transformation takes one round after casting the spell, during which the caster can do absolutely nothing (even defend himself). The objects carried are infused into his new form. If caster is damaged in any way during the transformation or after it, he reverts to normal form, taking still the damage from the strike. The swimming speed of a Fishformed mage is about 1,5 times his walking speed. In addition, the Fishform gives the caster an invisibility to relatively small fish and birds. Sire Halfar's Crumble Level: 2 Range: 10m Duration: instantaneous AoE: 30cm cube Crumble crumbles a cube of nonliving matter. The matter is crumbled into pieces, that can be fixed with adaldite and patience, as the ming-vase would be a really hard puzzle to put back together. The crumbled cube can be a piece of larger object. Magical matter is affected in no way by this spell. Sire Halfar's Swiftsword Level: 2 Range: touch Duration: 2 rounds / level AoE: one sword Swiftsword gives a specially crafted Belcadizan sword a glittering field making it weightless, quick and excellently sharp. Practically the wielder fights as with one level higher weapon mastery. This spell does not enchance fighting abilities of a master or a grandmaster swordsman. Works only on specially crafted Belcadizan rapiers. Sire Halfar's Spell Armor Level: 2 Range: 0 Duration: 6h AoE: caster Spell Armor creates a glittering, oval protective field to the target. The field slows any hits directed at the caster, practically enchancing his AC by two points. Spell Armor is cumulative with armor, other protective spells and magic armor. Spell Armor only affects physical damage. Sire Halfar's Gremlins Level: 3 Range: 20m Duration: 5min AoE: one person The spell creates one little humanoid for every two levels of the caster, up to five humanoids. These 5-10cm tall humanoids appear on victim, walking on him as it was level ground. These creatures attack the victim with everything from chainsaws, mauls and drills to little explosives and boiling liquids. Every gremlin makes d3 points of damage every round, and the target's attack and dexterity rolls and AC are modified by -1 for every active gremlin. The gremlins can be killed with a successful modified dexterity check -- while fighting, this gives a further -4 modifier to attacks. The victim can also roll on the ground full-time, thus getting an unmodified DEX check against the gremlins. In addition, every kind of damage (drowning, suffocation, dragon breath...) kills gremlins. Also, they fear lots of things, among which fire, darkness, arachnids, being eaten... Sire Halfar's Swift Travel Level: 3 Range: touch Duration: 6h tai 5min AoE: one person The Swift Travel can be cast two ways. First one, 'the Charles Chaplin Mode', triples the target's walking and running speeds for six hours, without tiring any more than when walking ordinarily. Alternatively, he can use 'the Maniac Mode', where his running speed is multiplied by ten for five minutes. The latter has absolutely no safety measures, so the person running 100 metres in a few seconds is in real trouble when controlling himself. The Maniac Mode also turns the character into a glowing line when he runs. Dal-Kher's Boxing Glove Level: 3 Range: 10y / 350y Duration: 10min (special) AoE: 1 force-fist 1' long and ½' wide The spell creates a visible Boxing Glove, which hits with the caster's THAC0, but counts as a +5 weapon to hit. The fist strikes once in a round, up to five times. The first four hits cause d6+2 points of damage each, and range of these is 10y. The final strike comes really hard, up to the maximum range, causing 3d6 points of damage. In addition to damage, the target is blown 3d10 yards to direction chosen by the caster, usually falling or hitting something for d6 more points of damage. After this, the victim must save vs. paralyzation or be unable to act for one round. The Final Strike may be used before the first strikes, but the fist dissipates after it. Dal-Kher's Dexterity Enchancement Enchantment Level: 3 Range: 25y Duration: 1h AoE: one creature This spell enchances target's reflexes and agility, raising his Dex with 6 points (within racial limits), but no more than doubling it. The spell has also reversed form, Dal-Kher's Anti-Agility Aura, lowering target's dexterity, halving it at best. This also functions only within racial limitations. Target with 9 HD can save vs. spell to halve the spell's effects. Dal-Kher's Gigantization Level: 3 Range: 0 Duration: d20h AoE: self The first result of researching the Strength Strengthening Spell produced Dal-Kher's Gigantization. This spell usually raises the caster's Strength and Constitution by d8 points, over the racial limits. In addition, the caster grows 10 percents for each point added to both, thus growing 10%-80%. Every time the spell is used, there is a one in ten chance of the spell being cast reversed, thus reducing Str and Con (into the minimum of one), and diminishing the caster. This spell cannot be ended by the caster except by using Dispel Magic or similar spell, and Gigantization usually destroys the clothes of the mage. Giverny's Ice Sphere Level: 3 Range: 0 Duration: 1h AoE: 10' radius Ice Sphere looks like a glittering light blue sphere around the caster. Everything within, is frozen to -10 degrees nearly instantaneously, this makes one point of damage per round to everyone, including the caster. Thick fur or arctic clothing protect against the spell. The caster may walk on water, which freezes under him as he goes on. Sir Valentino's Body Control Level: 3 Range: 200y Duration: varies AoE: 1-4 limbs The victim of this spell must roll four saving throws (-4) against this spell, one for every limb. Limbs failing their saving throws are under caster's control until they manage their saves; every round victim gets a saving throw (-4), and if successful, regain control of one limb. Limbs targeted by this spell are immune to pain, and can potentially be very distracting! Sir Valentino's Chasm Level: 4 Range: touch Duration: 2 hours AoE: one chasm 10' wide and d8x10 yards long Sir Valentino's Chasm must be cast on naturally formed terrain; fortifications and pavements prevent functioning of this spell. It is 10 feet wide at the top and 6 feet wide at the bottom, 10 feet deep and d8x10 yards long. Everyone on the way of the Chasm must roll dexterity, if successful, they manage to jump away from it's way before they fall in. The caster must touch the beginning of the chasm, but can give it any form he wishes. The chasm is magically reinforced so it can not be dug conventionally. When the spell ends, the terrain reforms itself, looking again exactly as it was before. Dal-Kher's Strength Strengthening Spell Level: 5 Range: 25y Duration: 2h / 30s AoE: one creature The first way of casting this spell gives nine points of strength to target, as the Dexterity Enchancement Enchantment, or if reversed (Dal-Kher's Weakening Ward) reduces it as the Anti-Agility Aura. In addition, there is a third way of casting this spell; giving target strength of a giant (25) for half minute. Étienne d'Ambreville's Anchor Level: 5 Range: 50 miles, line of sight Duration: max 6h / level AoE: two nonliving objects. This spell must be targeted to two separate objects, one of which must be larger than three elephants (could be as large as Mystara itself), and the other smaller than one cubic yard. As long as the spell is in effect, virtually nothing can move the objects relative to one another. If one is moved, the other moves respectively. This can be very interesting when calculating momentum with a 50 miles long lever. The caster may not cancel this spell at will, but may choose the duration when casting the spell. This spell is not affected by Dispel Magic or Anti-Magic Shell (or similar spells), the effect should be considered nonmagical in every way, until the duration ends. Sire Halfar's Understanding Level: 5 Range: 0 Duration: 10min / level AoE: self This spell grants the caster all the knowledge from a single book, with the ability to Understand the principles of the lore. For example, a high-school caster Understanding a college math book, would be able to solve complex mathematical equations. If someone who never studied any math Understood the same book, he could make very complex equations, but could not solve them because the book doesn't go to the basics. When the duration lapses, the learned lore is forgotten quickly. Sire Halfar showed sometimes surprising ability in tactics, taxation procedures and Darokinian diplomacy, and in his elder days he was nearly always seen a book in a hand, but never reading them. Prolonged use of this spell causes madness. - markus.montola@iki.fi ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #168 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.