mystara-digest Tuesday, April 13 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 169 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia Needed ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Crafts [MYSTARA] - D&D Players [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.1 Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps and Such Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Idiot Savante ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:04:39 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia Needed ... At 08.36 12/04/99 PDT, you wrote: > Ciao all ... I e-met a young (19) italian called Alessandro >(rol@mail.clio.it) from Vasto ... This poor man want to play rolegame >but it seems he can't find anyone who knows rolegame by where he >lives. I know you're many Italian on the MML that's why i forward >this "Call for Help" ... > Roleplayers are a great family ... and i'm sure one one you might >help him (certainly more thant me ...). Thanks Marc. I'll immediately provide him with the info he needs. I don't know any roleplayer in Vasto, but I cooperate in the two biggest italian websites devoted to RPG, so it won't be too hard to find some gaming group in the area. BTW: please don't use "Forza Italia" as subject. It is the name of a political party, and, AFAIK, the Italians on this list don't like it very much. Right, Ezio? ;-) Bye ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:20:53 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Great waste At 13.12 08/04/99 +0200, Hĺvard Rřnne Faanes wrote: >No, youre just cool :) >I've been considering putting up the trailmaps too, but im too concerned >about damaging them... I decided to put them up (spending a lot of money BTW) after noticing that by folding and unfolding them several times I would have damaged them really a lot. Now the problem is that I cannot move those maps easily, so I'm either forced to play in the "Trail Map Room", or to play without using those nice maps... - --------------------- Fabrizio "cool" Paoli :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:56:10 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:51:53 +0200 >From: Ezio Pignatelli > >Wow, Stan. A Masterpiece. >I am quite worried about the presence of magic powers in thieves, that >could unbalance them some. >Here is some changes I _would_ suggest: > >1) In D&D, thieves cannot use scrolls before level 9. > I would change the table of the powers so that the level required > to a thief is different from that of a mage - may be as different as > to double it. (or, may be better adding 5 levels). > This will prevent them from using any magical power > before level 10. I might consider adding some levels for thieves but I'm not sure about adding 5 extra levels. >2) In GAZ3, to any magical power, is associated a -usually nasty- >countereffect if a 1 over a d100 is rolled. The effect is nastier if the >power is more powerful. Did u think to something like that for your >powers? I tried to come up with side effects, but I was unable to come up with side effects for all the powers so I just left that be at the moment to see if anyone notices, I guess someone did :o) >3) IN D&D, thieves have some chances of failure reading a magical >scroll. May be, such problems could be well represented by increasing >the chance of failure of pooint 2) for thief class. Yeah, I was thinking of that when you mentioned it. With the additional XP required for each circle and increase failure chances do you think that increased levels as per suggestion 1 are also required? >4) The problem I have is that I do not want my thieves to be as good in >magic as wizards... not even in one special field as shadows. The >problem you could have is that -if I understand well - with such changes >the thieves will never be as good as wizards in this secret art... Well I don't think that one secret art makes thieves as good as magic users with magic. It justs gives them an interesting option. But I don't want thieves to be too inferior to magic users in the art - they did help to found the art. >but >the difference in the Hide in Shadow will loikely be enough in balancing >it. I don't understand what you mean here. >Of course, as usual, just suggestions. and gratefully accepted. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:56:15 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Crafts >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:51:58 +0200 (METDST) >From: Agathokles > >On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > >> > Here's a new Secret Arts for Azca, running along pretty >> > similar lines for the Glantrian Secret Crafts. Any and all >> > ideas and comments gratefully accepted. Thanks to Mytaros >> >> Sounds interesting, but I don't have GAZ3 - can someone explain the Secret >> Crafts concept to me so I can better understand these? >> >The Secret Crafts are (secret) societies of wizard within the Great School >of Magic. Wizard who join a Craft receive extra powers, similar to spells >but treated as natural abilities (no memorization). Gaining a power >requires a time of studies, a price to be payed to the teacher, and the >"sacrifice" of a quantity of XPs. sacrifice gives the wrong connotation, it just requires additional XP to go up circles of power. >Using a power requires a d100 roll. >Success chances depend on the difficulty ("circle") of the power and on >the wizard's level. There are 5 circles for each Craft. First circle may >be joined at fifth level, while the others are available at higher levels. >Fifth circle is reserved to the Grand Master of each Craft, and this >position is assigned by duel. >Currently, there are 10 Crafts: Alchemy, Witchcraft, Illusionism (or Dream >Magic), Elementalism (4 different Crafts), Necromancy, Dracology, >Cryptomancy. The idea of the additional crafts in areas other than Glantri is to give other mages an opening to similar powers etc. The Mystara message boards came up with quite a few of these. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:23:33 WST From: "Ally D" Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D Players I'm just now learning to play D&D, and my b/f is an old hand. We were wondering if there are any groups around that we could join up with? We live in northern suburbs of Perth. Thank you. Shannen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:24:48 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.1 Mystara FAQ version 7.1 by Hervé Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/mystfaq.txt [US] http://212.198.157.210/Mystara/mystfaq.txt [France] Table of contents: Introduction to Mystara. (no updates) Geography and History of Mystara. (no updates) Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. (no updates) Miscellaneous. (updated links to TSR's site) Introduction to Mystara. Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Geography and History of Mystara. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is an epic campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is "wrong, wrong, wrong!" In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard of the Known World, and of the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : "Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :)" So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Immortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? Powers? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Is Rad gone after Wrath? A: No, he's been absorbed into the Radiance, and some of his life force was used to lessen the drain of the artifact on Mystara's magic (thus there is only a Day of Dread each year, and not a week as in Wrath). Rad is not dead though, but he has been put into a slumbering state to reflect on his deeds (and hopefully change). This is covered in detail in the module Mark of Amber. Q: So is Rad back after Mark of Amber? A: The outcome of the module may vary from campaign to campaign, as the actions of the PCs decide his fate. The module's three outcomes are: 1. He returns as a mortal with no chance of being sponsored back to Immortality and no access to the Radiance (failure); 2. He returns as a mortal but can become an Immortal again sometime (normal success and most likely outcome); 3. He returns as a full Immortal (complete success). Later products avoid the issue, and the general consensus is that he should return but be left in the background, keeping low profile for some time, either rebuilding his following (if an Immortal) or attempting to reach Immortality again (if mortal). Few favor him becoming a mere mortal as most love him as an NPC. Q: Does the Radiance draw from Energy or Entropy after Wrath? A: In Wrath, the Radiance is altered to draw from Entropy instead of Energy. Yet in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, the rules for the Radiance are exactly the same as in Gaz3, stating that it drains from Energy. This is a mistake in K:KoA; the authors overlooked that event in Wrath and forgot to update the info from Gaz3. Thus the new rules for the Radiance are undefined, as are the effects of Entropy-draining. Various suggestion have been made on the MML, though. Q: Where is Teldon? Is he dead? A: This is a short excerpt from Dragon Magazine #207 about Teldon's fate: "One of the attractions of the Magicians' Guild, its location in Karameikos' largest city, was its downfall. Such a collection of powerful (and often egotistical or secretive) mages in one location created great potential for conflict. The final straw was the creation of a mechanical beholder by one of the more advanced apprentices, powered by an Immortal's artifact. The resulting creation was turned loose in downtown Specularum, leveling a good section of the South End. The creation was defeated by the head of the Magicians' Guild, Teldon, but at great cost. Both mage and monster disappeared in a pure white ball of fire, and while they are assumed to have both been destroyed, they may instead have been teleported to some far-off location. The fact remained that the Magicians' Guild proved itself too dangerous to remain in Specularum, and lost one of its most valuable supporters." Q: And Bargle, where is he? A: After the fall of the Black Eagle Barony, Bargle is an itinerant villain that pops up here and there. He can easily be used as a recurring villain who the PCs bump into way too often (to their taste). He has been spotted in various place, including Esterhold and Serraine (always helping the evil guys, of course), but can have business just anywhere you wish. Well, good ole Bargle. Q: Is Kol a Shadow Elf or a Kobold? A: Earlier sources always presented Kol as a kobold who, using the rules from Gaz10, could cast spells. In Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, he is said to be one of the deformed shadowelf babies raised by the humanoids, thus explaining both his high intelligence and spellcasting abilities under the AD&D rules. It is both an interestesting plot, and a disappointement to many, as it removes again the humanoids any glint of chance that they can achieve something by themselves. Many people ignore that sentence in G:KoM (or ignore the box altogether, prefering good old Gaz3), and some love the potential of that plot. As always, use whatever version suits your campaign and your taste best. Miscellaneous. Q: You mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsr.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:07:24 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer Isnt the region that you mention (see below) part of Denagoth? Denagoth is described in "Saga of the Shadowlord" and some of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, as is Wendar. See also: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/geog.html Orsirikland sounds interesting. I'm not sure that you have, but if you have placed it within Denagoth, you could probably just move it a bit further to the north or west? Haavard On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > I am working on a new gazetteer style land called the northlands. These > lands will consist of Wendar, The New Alphatian Empire (Which now is centered > in Alpha, the largest city in Norwold) and a new kingdom ruled by six houses > (two human, and one of each other race) called Orsikland which is located > north of Wendar, northeast of Heldanna, west of the Great Plateau, and now > controls parts of Norwold. Too my knowledge these areas have only been > detailed in a few products, Wendar in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, > Norwold in Dawn of the Emperors (I know there are more adventures, but as of > yet I have seen anything that would cause a contradiction of the words > presented about Norwold) and finally Orsikland has never been detailed and, > apparently, the land there has never been detailed either. Any ideas? > (Note: I am already way into Orsikland so if this would be totally > impossible, any ideas on how I could rework them?) > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:11:03 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps and Such On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Daniel wrote: > Seriously I'll be scanning them all today (and rescanning the one from Hule > btw). I will be makign them all .pdf files so you'll need adobe reader for > them (but..but..I thought EVERYONE had that program). I didnt get around to asking yet, but id like a map of Hule myself. But .pdf? Surely you can convert it to .gif or .jpeg? > As for the Hero/Fuzion question, I'll let it rest for now. I am converting > the Known & Hollow World over to those systems (slowly, REAL slowly) and > putting up a web site as I go along. (Now all I have to do is find my copies > of GAZ13 & Red Steel (sighs) bet my ex-wife has those.....any SINGLE woman > who's into role-playing email me @..what? I can't advertise? man, it's one > of those lifetimes.....) Sorry, I forgot to reply to that topic. I havent used any of those systems with Mystara, but I do use GURPS which isnt all that different from HERO AFAIK... Haavard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:18:36 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Nah, I disagree. I think it is important for Alphatians to make a distinction between fighter and spellcaster. The way I see it, Alphatians reluctantly admit paladins as aristocracy, but are relieved that they don't have to go any further with it. I could go along with (and have) a rare paladin or avenger making it to king, but not as a general rule. We do have at least 2 mainland kings who are clerics though...so that much is not really debatable from the DotE's standpoint. Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > At 13.14 28/03/99 +0300, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > >I say that the DotE claims that any user of magic who reaches ultimate > >mastery is allowed. > > > > >(Matter of Avengers, Paladins and such is a lot more interesting; can a > >36th level paladin claim that he has reached the Ultimate Mastery as he > >can't cast 7th level spells...) > > Well, IMO he has reached Ultimate Mastery in _his_ craft: i.e. Avenger's > (or Paladin's) Magic. > This is the requirement to enter the Council, isn't it? > > PS: IMC I allow only 36th level mages to be part of the Grand Council, > anyway I agree with Jamuga here. > > > ************** > Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net > Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560 > ************** > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:23:42 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Idiot Savante Understand the purpose of the term "idiot". In the following article it is used closer (though not with precision) to its older meaning, the technical term for a certain mental disorder. It is not intended to equate people with mental deficiencies with the jerks who cut you off in the fast lane (today's use of the word idiot). ******************* Dangerous, deadly, beautiful, elegant, embarrassing; these are the words used to describe a people within Alphatian society. 1 in 1000 people in Alphatia are born both with the gift of magic, and with certain mental deficiencies that render them unable to lead a normal life. The deficiencies discussed, are not simple slowness, or retardation, but a problem that reaches beyond reason. Generalities are difficult. One cannot simply say, "They are not bright". Quite the contrary. How many Alphatians today can name all Emperors, past or present, in order, backwards, and in strange combinations which, though seemingly without logic, are perfectly patterned in some way or the other upon close examination. This was the case with one such individual, a "Humakan" of Draco. Though he could do these amazing feats with lists, he could not tie his own robe. The "malady" comes in various severities, the worst being unable to continue existence without some sort of protection. The matter becomes more complicated when one considers Alphatian law. These "Idiot Savantes" have the ability to produce magic. Therefore they are considered nobles under Alphatian law. We cannot simply experiment on them, or lock them away in some vault. They have to be free. They have to have the same protection under Alphatian law. One could say, "Simply let them be." While such pacifistic thoughts are enticing, they do not address the crux of the problem. These fellows, for whatever reason, seem able to effortlessly produce magical effects, though they be incapable of learning actual magic formulae (not entirely true, but true enough for our purposes here). These effects can run the range of beautiful, complex illusions, to gates, to fireballs suddenly detonating a mile away. They seem to be able to, quite easily, unlock the magic and let it fly, in whatever form presents itself to their enigmatic minds. This has led to the craft of the Savante. The Savante seeks to control, in some way, the effects of this maddening "gift". This can range from anti-magics on the Idiot Savante himself (only in extreme cases) to encouraging the person to live away from human settlements. High placed families often set aside acres of land for estates housing their Idiot Savante relatives. They furnish the estates with plenty of servants to attend to the idiot's needs. The estates themselves tend to take on some strange characteristics as time goes by, warped by the mind of the idiot into a beautiful paradise where dreams come true, to a hideous nightmare in which visitors will not awaken. An idiot is not necessarily insane, but the servants sometimes end up being insane after years of service. There are also religious monastaries in some areas of Bettelyn that take care of less fortunate idiot savantes, and loyal servants from other estates, who can not go on any longer with their service. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #169 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 13 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 170 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Spell Components [MYSTARA] - [Thyatis] Holy Oils [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] The Kingdom of Greenspur [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Kingdom of Arogansa ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:25:39 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Spell Components Much of a spellcaster's life is devoted to the acquiring of power. In the great game, the winner will be the one with the most toys. An old saying of Blackmoor, "You can't take it with you." An old saying of Nithia, "Oh yes you can!" These thoughts on power, further bring to mind a saying of Darokin and Minrothad, "Life is a game, money is just a means of keeping score." The saying in Alphatia, were it to exist, would be the same with the substitution of "power" for "money". Many archmages spend decades in seclusion, studying ancient tomes for that knowledge that will give them the one up on their fellows. Others experiment on new forms of magic, while still others study cultures both modern and ancient, in the hopes of finding some unknown magic. Though common consensus among Alphatian mages is that the latter are wasting their time on primitives. Besides spells, scrolls, and items, Alphatian mages often seek out new uses for rare objects. It is common knowledge among all mages that the proper gem or metal or creature part will enhance a magic item. But Alphatian mages know that even common spells can be enhanced by the proper item, used up in the casting. They jealously guard this knowledge from each other, lest the usage become common knowledge. An herbalist (or mineralist, or any other skilled profession that is applicable) will add +5 to all chances of finding the proper reagents. The chance of finding the reagent, in the appropriate spot, is 1% per searcher. The bright mage will have plenty of apprentices with him, in order to help search, and to keep watch lest wandering monsters accost him. Examples: Spideroot Plant--found in the bogs of Dunadale, this rare plant will cause binding spells (such as Web, or Hold Person) to be slightly stronger. A -1 applies to any save vs these spells, or attempts to cut through (in the case of webs). 1 to 3 plants are found per successful roll. Tyranium Ore--this item really needs an appropriate skill set, as the yellow ore looks very akin to gold. It aids Magic Missles, giving an extra point of damage to each magical arrow produced by the spell. The ore found, and properly extracted, can be forged into 1 to 4 coins of sufficient size (one does not wish to produce an object large than a coin, as the whole of the substance is used up, and does not seem to produce any added benefit). The GoGha Berry--This fruit may be found in northern Norwold, where the toughest of barbarians benefit from their shamans against the mighty Frost Giants of Frosthaven. The shamans mix the berry into a potion, and give it to the barbarians. Just before a battle, the barbarians drink the potion, and the shaman cast strength spells upon the warriors. The potions magnify the strength spells to twice duration, and add an extra point of damage. Each bush grows alone, and produces only one berry. It is rumored the shaman actually know of a knot of bushes growing together, but no outsider has ever seen such a thing. Fire Gem--Laying along the volcanic pools of the Arch of Fire, these gems will focus the might of a fireball into a single blast, directed at an individual. This can be useful for close combat. There is no extra damage, but the range is double that of a fireball. 1 to 3 gems are found. Rahidian Marble--This marble, named for an odd "male medusa" which tends to inhabit quarries of this stone, aids Statue, Flesh to Stone, and Stone to Flesh. In each case, saving throws are reduced or aided by 1 (depending on what is appropriate), and duration (if applicable) is doubled. The stone is good for carving, but dangerous to extract, given the Rahid which guard the quarries. On other worlds, these creatures are called "Maedar". They seem to be able to cross to and from the Plane of Earth at the site of these quarries. One may extract one chunk of marble/week. The time, in hours, is divided by the number of specialists with the party. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:27:34 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Thyatis] Holy Oils In honor of Easter Vigil: Holy Oils of Thyatis "A power that exists, except by the consent of the magocracy? Improbable at best. Take the so-called Korotiku's Oil of Shadows. What is it, but simply a magical oil? There is no alternate power source at work here. The Immortals are mere puppets on the strings of a specialist mage known as "the priest"." - --Ilyana Radovich, apprentice to Prince Morphail The oils are special and unique to the temples from whence they originate. Oils are generated, through secret rites and prayers, at the central base of each religion, and distributed to each of the child temples. As the oils are only produced during special holy days, robbers are prosecuted to the fullest extent. Each temple has a reserve amount, sold off at the end of each year, in order that the proper oil will be on hand for each sacred occassion. The faiths of Korotiku and Astinus(?) each have a particular method of sharing their oils between temples. During certain times of the year, each subordinate temple of Korotiku must make an attempt to steal the oil they need from another temple. The High Priests keep in touch regarding exactly how much oil each temple has, and in the end they see to it the oil is distributed evenly enough. The temples that do the best job stealing their supply of oil, are considered to gain karma. Astinus temples must bargain, haggle, and attempt to swindle the best price from other temples. The exact method used to ensure a sufficient distribution are obscure, and perhaps only understood by the upper echelons of the Astinus faith. The incentive to sell, for the lesser temples, is the ability to purchase nicer goblets, altars, and icons. A "really good deal" is considered to gain a temple karma. Karma, for the purposes of this article, has no real meaning. It is just a measure of that particular temple's belief in its own achievements within its faith. Perhaps there will be later revelation as to the real benefits of gaining karma. Each oil lasts for 10 minutes, or the duration of one combat. Certain times of the year, they can be bought, and they can be found in treasure, though in the latter's case, the temple would surely appreciate having the likely stolen property returned. Each vial of the oil is small, and contains only 1 application, no matter the actual amount used. The Temple of Korotiku Oil of Shadows: This oil, properly placed on the eyelids of the recipient, allows a 20% base chance of hiding in shadows to non-thieves, or a bonus of 20% to thieves. The holidays that surround this oil, are secret, and known only to the faithful. They are called "Days of the Holy Tea" due to the stock answer given by any one of the faithful when questioned by the authorities. "Just what is it you do on the holy days of Korotiku?" the town guard asks the believer. "Drink tea." The Temple of Astinus Oil of Bargaining: This oil is applied to the lips of the faithful, on a certain holiday each year. Of course, most countries will not deal with Thyatian merchants during this time of year, so the holiday ends up being mostly symbolic. The oil gives a bonuse of +3 to all die rolls concerning reaction and bargaining. The Temple of Vanya Oil of the Conqueror: The oil is placed on the back of the faithful's right hand (no matter the actual hand used to draw a weapon). If the recipient finds himself in a fight, he is able to score a +3 to his hit roll, on any round after striking a successful hit. Once he misses, he has to score another successful hit to gain the bonus for the following round. These holidays are marked by exceedingly violent tavern parties. The Temple of Koryis Oil of Peace: This one, simply makes a believer feel exceedingly nonviolent. Adventurers often consider it a "cursed" item, though remove curse and curse detection spells will not work on it. Combat, even to protect one's own life, is not possible when under the influence of this oil. It is placed on the believer's hands. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:39:12 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] The Kingdom of Greenspur Personality/Philosophy/Society Greenspur is one of the more populated nations, with 600k people crowded into an area of average Alphatian size. This, as well as ancient national character, contributes to the strict laws in Greenspur. While there are no more rights for nonspellcasters, than in any other Imperial Kingdom, the laws that exist are strictly prosecuted, and punisments are carried out equitably. Understand, there is still a discrepancy between classes, and a nonspellcaster still faces a harsher sentence for any given infraction than do spellcasters. Nevertheless, Arogansan nobles who visit Greenspur are often shocked that their word is not taken at face value, that the Greenspur courts actually deign to hold trials, and that nobles can actually face penalties. It should be noted, the similar view of law in Greenspur, as a whole, makes the nation naturally more inclined toward a happy relationship with Arogansa, again, as a whole. Neither nation particularly likes the other's system of justice, and members of both populations criticize the other kingdom for their backward ways. But these conversations inevitably end with, "But even given their methods, run their country quite effectively." While all people of Alphatia enjoy their own particular quirks, Greenspur is the only nation that could truly be said to be "lawful" in its societal makeup. While the people love the law, they have also managed to keep the number of laws to a minimum, further encouraging all people to maintain respect for the laws themselves. All people are required to carry citizenship papers, whether foreign or natural born. Religion One could say, while the Arogansans worship themselves, the people of Greenspur worship the law. And this has some literal truth, as "The Law" is believed to have been handed down through the ages, eventually coming directly from the great Poo himself. Poo was an ancient archmage from the old world, named so for the pleasant sound of the word. There was no vulgar connotation in the ancient language. So to the question, "Do the Greenspurians worship?" Well yes, in their own way. And in fact, the few Alphatian Immortals who care for law (especially Alphatia), contribute to Greenspur's prosperity, but are hardly spoken of by name. Military It is customary for each new emperor to appoint a king as commander of his military forces. The position could be equated with "Minister of Defense" or "Chief of Security", though the Alphatians use the term "Lord Warmage". The king who is so designated, disperses much of the direct responsibility to various magists and seneschals beneath him. But the effect of this customary designation, is to propel a kingdom into the major supplier of military force for the Empire. Theranderol appointed the king of Randel, a tried and true kingdom for military purposes, for the entire time that Theranderol has held the throne. So far, this has been 3 centuries. Greenspur has coveted Randel's preferred status for the entire time. While this does not set them at direct odds with Randel, they do see their bread being buttered on the side of Arogansa, more than Theranderol. Their support though, usually consists more of political/diplomatic overtures, rather than direct help in any physical squabbles. Undoubtedly, if Greenspur lended its overwhelming air support to Arogansa during its frequent, but small, border raids, then Randel would feel compelled to enter on the side of Theranderol. The ensuing civil war would be disasterous. Cities/Towns Afass(14k): While the port of Eagret boasts of its excellent navy, Afass spends its resources on fast moving, civilian transport. The secret of creating these "airskimmers" is closely guarded by the family which runs the Afass local government and shipbuilding facilities. They began their work in response to the commuter wormholes which are prevalent the closer one gets to Sundsval. Because Greenspur does not have the use of these wormholes, yet has just as much need for transport, the old archmage Fasstaff set about a solution. In the intervening time, he attracted apprentices (whom he called his children) and a wife, eventually achieving a dynasty of sorts in the little settlement that came to be known as Afass. It should be noted, that all his true children were hopelessly nonmagical, yet are given a place in town as dockworkers and physical laborers. The "family of Afass" further has influence on the Grand Council, with no less than 5 members of the family sitting upon it. Afotir(9k): This town is the only noncoastal town in Greenspur. It began as a haven for the nonspellcasting gentry. Unfortunately, in the intervening centuries since its founding, Afotir has developed a fairly harsh class division. Spellcasters are less numerous here than any other town in Greenspur, yet they rule the town with an iron grip. It is only a matter of time till violence erupts. The town is very important for the wood it produces for both Afass and Eagret. Those two towns would be very concerned if riots broke out. Ashipun(2k): A huge, fortress like, wooden keep sits atop a high cliff here. Within, one may find one of the greatest libraries in the Empire. A small settlement exists nearby, but a little further down the slope and away from the coast. There is no port in Ashipun, but there is a large clearing, suitable for flying ships, outside the keep. While there are 3 Grand Council members who live here, they like to be strictly left to their studies. Other Grand Council members, and indeed many other archmages, travel here to partake of the library. Eagret(100k): Named for the beautiful, magic sea bird which makes its home on the beaches near the city, this is a major naval base and shipbuilder. Where the Kingdom of Floating Ar conducts research into new designs, and the Mighty Randel focuses on battle training, Greenspur has the best facilities for building the massive airships which are so feared throughout the world. Eagret is home to 20 Grand Council members. King Sildreth II, a high level priest of the philosophy of law, maintains a spartan, though magical, palace nearby. Several small islands, housing monsters of various types, are maintained by the navy of Greenspur for the purposes of training. Gufetir(1.5k): In Gufetir, fishing is an art. Whether by net or line, deep sea or coastal, fishing is considered the highest of livings. The fabled gufish is the major catch of the day, weighing a pound to 2 and a half pounds, and of entirely golden scales. The scales may be sold for 10 to 12 gold. Not a king's ransom, but definitely ensuring a higher level of wealth for the fishermen who live here. There is only a slightly large ratio of spellcasters to nonspellcasters here in Gufetir, but the tension is not nearly as high, due perhaps to the larger amount of gentry here. One of the spellcasting fishermen, believe it or not, is a Grand Council member. Limi (10k): Limi is concerned with the constant dueling in Avadz. Many refugees come through Limi, which has been forced to adopt a "no stopping" policy. Refugees are encouraged to continue traveling. There is one Grand Council members who makes his home here. Despite this unfriendly attitude, it is a major shipping port. Telsatus(14k): This town has been called, "The transportation capital of the south". It has high arched streets, and marble walkways, lovingly hugging the buildings at the base, and sweeping upward into the sky. These streets lead often to gates, the ones with the most common use having magic mouths or constructs to inform travelers of the destinations. Of course, there are the other gates too, located in alleys and forgotten turns. Sometimes there is a vague etching or scribble hinting at the destination, but most often the other side of the gate is a mystery. All people traveling into or out of Telsatus by foot, pay a 10 gold piece fee. This is to offset the cost of human guards and such who have to maintain the physical gateway. The other gates have their own wards, which vary from gate to gate, but all of which had to have been approved by the town council at some time during the city's history. Examples are: automatically bonding blades to scabbards, setting an anti-magic on travelers, faery fire... Flag The flag of Greenspur is a green star on a red background. Things to See Within the white-marbled city of Eagret, there are the Halls of Law. This denotes several huge, columned buildings sporting the statues of ancient judges all along the outside and in the streets. The greatest of these buildings, a huge domed, cathedral-like structure, is where the 9 Great Justices sit, and rule on legal matters brought before them. Their word is law, and so are their methods. Whether they use spells to ferret out the truth, or whether they simply decide based on their own opinions, there is no questioning their word. Xafan! --this is a small settlement of blue goblins who wield magic. It is rumored they are the result of an Alphatian experiment to produce a magical, servitor race. Unfortunately, they proved more independant than expected, and begged the 9 Great Justices to grant them protection under Alphatian law. The Justices agreed, and that has been that. Well...except for the occassional raids on caravans...but the blue goblins are smart enough to concentrate on those caravans which are run by gentry, not aristocracy. They always write the name of their settlement with an exclamation point. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:40:20 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Kingdom of Arogansa WHAT PEOPLE SAY ABOUT AROGANSA "That's about as smart as vacationing in Arogansa." - --Ierendi wise saying "Did you speak? Did you speak? Boy! Fetch me a magistrate!" - --Felyrana, an Arrogansan noblewoman, just after the shocking event of being addressed by Galyn, a nonspellcasting member of the gentry "Well, the orgasmic ring might fetch a good price in Arrogansa, but I would opt for the longer trip to Sundsvall were I you." - --Captain Stubby, in response to a question from visiting nobles of Norwold "Even our longtime rivals in Arogansa--Nay, especially our longtime rivals in Arogansa, must be welcomed as the dearest brethren in my reign." - --Empress Eriadna the Wise PHILOSOPHY/SOCIETY The Kingdom of Arrogansa, one of the southernmost kingdoms of Alphatia, is known for its very strict demarcations between classes. A nonspellcaster may not even speak to a spellcaster unless addressed first. Even then, he should be careful. When a spellcaster feels himself put out by a nonspellcaster (whether due to the underclassman speaking out of turn, or some other insult), he may send for a magistrate. All major towns have as many magistrates as the real world has lawyers. In fact, the magistrate is something like a lawyer, and something like a policeman. This similarity may be due to the closeness of the Kingdom of Greenspur, where paperwork is a way of life. The Kingdom of Arogansa is the place to retire, once one has lived a full life as a mage. From the beautiful, scenic beaches, to the lovely grasslands and forests, Arogansa offers visitor, and retiree alike, much to see and explore. There are a few dungeons, maintained by the crown as "protected from cleansing", in which tourists may risk their lives in pursuit of long lost knowledge. Then there are the "civil dungeons", as the aristocracy calls them. Here, one can satisfy the meanest desires, whether it be in humiliation of another human being, or in the delivering of pain to a line of slaves. While many Arogansans enjoy giving pain, it is considered rude and base to enjoy the receiving of pain. Therefore, the nickname "scarback", is NOT a compliment. It is customary among the elite to feign disinterest in all topics, no matter how interesting. A man shouting FIRE! in a crowded room will find most people chuckling in a patronizing manner, while making their way unhurriedly toward the door. This can go to far extremes when the door is so crowded, that a few nobles wander with aimless precision to a window, yawn, and carelessly fling themselves out. THE MAGESTRATE The magestrate, garbed in a leather halter over his robes, and with a strip of leather binding his right wrist, arrives to judge simple matters of social law. The noble voices his complaint, the magestrate may or may not ask the nonspellcaster for his story (generally, as a courtesy, they DO ask gentry, and DON'T ask slaves. Anything in between is anybody's guess). But no matter the story, it is usual for the magestrate to deliver 20 lashes to the nonspellcaster, on the spot. There is no need for the state to waste time on the case, or for the noble to be put out any further by having to present his story in court. This does not mean the magestrate cannot order a trial. He can. But it is in the best interest of the noble, the magestrate, and to some extent, the nonspellcaster, to have the punishment delivered quickly so that the spellcaster is satisfied, and the nonspellcaster can go freely, though painfully, about his business. Magic Item The Magestrate's Whip is an item carried by every magestrate. It is a symbol of office, as well as a practical tool. The leather strip which hugs the magestrate's right wrist, is a magical item which produces a whip in the hands of the wearer, when the proper gesture is made. The proper gesture involves bringing the hand up to the forehead, and flicking the hand down and away most suddenly. The produced whip may be used 3 times per day, and has no other powers. Spell: Air Whip Level: 1 Range: 3' Duration: 1rnd Effect: With a flick of his hand, the mage may cause the air to churn in a suddenly violent, concentrated, manner. While there is no visible connection between the flicking motion, and the sudden shredding of flesh, the results are fairly spectacular at the higher levels. The Air Whip causes d4 points of damage, per level of the mage, up to level 20, upon a successful to hit roll. RELATIONS WITH NEIGHBORS The Kingdom of Greenspur: The two kingdom get along fairly well. Most of the time, they appreciate each other's laws and ways. Greenspur doesn't cotton to the Arogansan debauchery, but admires the strict discipline displayed so openly in the streets. Arogansa sees Greenspur as being a bit of a stick-in-the-mud, but recognizes them as always a potential ally. The Kingdom of Eadrin: Early on, when this kingdom broke off from the monolithic early Alphatian kingdom, Arogansa supported their rights as an independent kingdom. This has earned Arogansa the enmity of Randel, but they aren't too worried about this because they do not share a border with that military power. Besides, Randel has always been a supporter of the crown of Theranderol, a fact which annoys Arogansa to no end. The Kingdom of Theranderol: From ancient times, these two kingdoms have waged a bitter political war over the imperial crown. Over the centuries, the crown has passed mainly between them. Right now, Arogansa finds itself in a particularly weak position, but is constantly seeking ways to strengthen it. The taste of victory turned bitter, when Tylion IV, so beautifully weakened by the failed Spike Assault, was replaced by his daughter. Gombar the magnificent, a Grand Council member and Arogansan supporter, had been quite successful at manipulating several younger members of the council to challenge Tylion. Then, once Tylion was defeated, he would further manipulate them into supporting Queen Delillia(called "Scarback" by most people of Theranderol). But that was when Eriadna made her move. The Queen, and her supporters, still grind their teeth over this near victory. NAMING CONVENTION The royal family of Arogansa tends to put some form of "alpha" in the names of children destined to rule. So one may have Alphas, Alphar, Dalpheg, Boralphor, etc. Alphaks is not typically used, due to its historic significance. GEOGRAPHY At one time, dophins swam and danced off the beaches of Arogansa. Now one may visit the magical aquariums to see the dolphins, all while luxurating in the fine climate controlled villas and mansions that clutter the beaches. The countryside is beautiful, though there is little in the way of untamed real estate. Most of it is given to vineyards, the rocky, hilly areas and the land along the rivers especially. It is the dream of the Arogansan gentry to own a plot of land and raise wine grapes, as Arogansan wine is a hot item, and drunk at every social occassion. There are also about 80 Grand Council members who live on wine producing estates, though these plots of land are much larger than anything the gentry can afford. They are usually divided into smaller sections, each run by a member of the gentry who reports to a nobleman on the Council member's staff. Somewhere within darkest portion of the Forest of Char Borlon (located in the center of the kingdom, and slightly east), lies the ruins of the ancient city of Meldrae. This haunted place has not known man since shortly after Landfall. The indigineous people of the continent, first defeated at Sundsvall, later slaughtered bloodily on the banks of the Greenlake River, made their last stand here. Calling forth strange, alien magic (at least alien to the Alphatians), the people destroyed themselves, their city, and many of the invaders, proclaiming, "This place will be closed to you, forever after!" Despite the fact that it is the only non protected ruin in Arogansa, it has indeed remained closed to any sort of cleansing. TOWNS Ascopal(10k) This large town contains one of the largest bridges in the world. Higharch is an ornate, intricately carved marble bridge that spans the delta between Ascopal and Archport. Twenty miles long, and 10 miles high at the very center, it is a massive testament to the greatness of Alphatia. Avrads (12k) Avrads and Kirn were once one city (Kirnavrads). The town is more often the site of combat between the kingdoms of Theranderol and Arogansa, than the fortified border itself. Patriotic mages from both kingdoms often take it upon themselves to challenge building owners, to the death, with the winner taking the building for himself and his country. This causes the border to wander quite a bit, in this one small area. It is rumored that there are a group of 20 Grand Council members on both sides(8 in Avrads, and 12 in Kirns) who actually call the shots, and play the duelings as a kind of massive chess game. Conquered buildings have value depending on whether they have been designated "secret storehouse", "stronghold", "research", "trade", or "governmental". Whether this is true or not, there have been rare occassions when an important portion of the city has been fought over by Grand Council members. Dhobig(10k) Another large town, Dhobig sends forth many pleasure cruises from its sizeable port. The party boats are wide, flat, and two-decked. They do not have a fast movement rate, and are propelled by elemental power. Hajura(4k) Small town, not very remarkable. It is a town of retirees, mostly consisting of villas and estates, with Grand Council members fairly numerous here, comparitively speaking. There are no less then 10 Grand Council members in Hajura, the largest concentration in Arogansa. Nasperid(2k) Though little more than a village, Nasperid boasts the best place to find ship or import wine. Almost as much wine merchanting is done here as Bluenose, and it is the only port beside Bluenose and Ascopal that can accept the larger vessels. The remaining ports have to tender from large ship to the shore. Perponaz(4k) Perponaz is a quite town, and the retired nobility likes it that way. One of the more "lawful" of Arogansan settlements, wild behaviors are kept in the dark. Gelemon is a very unfriendly Grand Council member who encourages the general unfriendliness toward outsiders. In truth, he is the head of a major thieves' guild in Arogansa. Rhuboka(2k) Most of the population here consists of vintners, their employees, and those who buy and sell grapes. Wine tasters come from all over the world (read: All over Alphatia, for the most part) to help judge the famous Rhubokan reds and burgundys. The winner travels to Shavadze to pit his wines against the Shavadze whites and the blushing sorceresses. Three Grand Council members live here and tend wine as a hobby. Shavadze(3k) The people here also tend to be vintners, workers, and traders. They specialize in white wines and gentle pink brews called "blushing sorceress". "Blushing slave" refers to a cheap wine coming from the same area. The tasting contests in both Rhuboka and Shavadze are used to set the prices of the wines when they are taken to Bluenose and Nasperid. This makes the vinting towns the best place to buy (if one has a skill in tasting) as the wines are not yet priced. Four Grand Council members live here. THE ARMY The army of Arogansa is small, and the country offers little to the Imperical army. The magestrate police force is strong and swift in punishment, keeping interior trouble to a minimum. There are druids which roam the wilds around the dungeons, helping to enforce the royally protected spots. The domestic army is found mainly along the border, stationed in the forts which look across a small no man's land, at the opposing Theranderol forts. Because of the outlet for violence in Kirnavrads, there are only rare outbreaks of battle between forts. The force consists mainly of spellcasters who have rejected the hedonism of the main kingdom, rejected so thoroughly, that they would rather live a life of dangerous duty, in an extremely underfunded military, than live among the useless aristocracy. No more than 500 men are stationed in each fort. There are about 3000 additional men who patrol the countryside and the ports. PLACES TO SEE Ruins of Charmath This is an ancient tower, dating from a century before the last millenium celebration (AY900). A reclusive archmage died in a hideous green fire, and his tower has remained haunted ever since. Many heroes have died in the place, and some few have returned with minor treasures. The greatest treasures, which belonged personally to Charmath, have never been recovered. Shortly after the disastrous millenium celebration, in which the Thyatian slave colony declared its independence, the Arogansan crown declared the ruins protected. This means, no priest or paladin may willfully attempt to bless the area, or attempt to consecrate any portion thereof. If the dungeon should ever be conquered by any group of heroes, or powers, then the property consisting of the geographical area of the dungeon, and everything the heroes consider "controlled territory", will be immediately handed over to the crown and repopulated with monsters. The king at the time, did not want any further morale losses from failed attempts at cleansing the area. Smarg's Dungeon of Delights Located in Nespirid, this playhouse is one frequented by all manner of spellcasters with itchy whip fingers. Only the liveliest, loudest, slaves are tied to poles for the guests' enjoyment. Anything goes, though death is frowned upon, and a higher fee must be paid to the establishment. Bartolek’s Pleasure Dome Situated in the port district of Bluenose, this massive edifice dominates the local scenery. A great dome, measuring 100’ high and 400’ in radius, and constructed of solid pink granite, is a regular meeting place of the jaded Bluenose elite. Here, one can procure any form of drug known to the empire, including opium imported from Ochalea, Ylari hashish, the more exotic Five Shires pipeweeds, and of course the highly illegal zzonga fruit. All drugs are sold at market value, which means they can be prohibitively expensive, even for the most established nobles. Many an unwary member of the gentry, caught in the web of drug addiction, has found their estate ruined by this evil pleasure. Also available is a wide variety of alcoholic beverages, from the most potent dwarvish grog to the gentlest elvish wine, for those patrons who come to socialize, or to lose themselves in drink. In addition to the prices paid for the drugs and alcohol, there is a 10 gp cover charge to enter the Dome itself. The dome itself is divided into five floors, each subdivided by coloured silk curtains into many lounges and salons, in which patrons relax and partake of the narcotic of their choice. To aid in producing the "ultimate high", a small staff of wizards is on hand to cast phantasms and other illusions to make the dream worlds produced by the drugs as real as possible. For those drug-induced fantasies involving other people, professional actors are also available to provide a "physical anchor" to that imaginary person. All in all, the Dome is a place where the wealthy (aristocratic or gentry) may go to have their secret desire fulfilled. Though most fantasies are rather benign, or at least cause very little disturbance, outbreaks of extreme violence are known to happen. To ensure that this sort of thing does not drive away future customers, Bartolek, a practicing wizard and lifelong resident of Bluenose, has a squad of battle-hardened gnolls at his disposal to quell any disturbances quickly and efficiently. While on the surface the Dome is not as abhorrent as, say, institutions where sadism and other base pleasures are served, it does pose a threat of its own. Long-time patrons of the establishment, craving that elusive high that will take all their troubles away, have been known to spend days at a time in drug-induced hazes. Dreading the inevitable crash to reality, regular customers always swarm back to the Dome, frantically trying to recapture that golden glow of being high. This has ruined the lives of many a promising person, from the enterprising gentryfolk to the boldest leaders - which has caused Arogansan society to slowly, but surely, slide deeper and deeper into decadence. Hard Drugs opium (1 dose): 5 gp hashish (1 dose): 7 gp arogansan cherry (1 cherry): 10 gp zzonga fruit: 20 gp each zzonga essence* (1 dose): 50 gp *Zzonga essence is the distilled juice of the zzonga fruit, served in a tiny (size of a shooter) glass. It has twice the effect of eating a zzonga fruit. The Arogansan Cherry is a small, black fruit, which gives the user 10% additional hit points for the duration of one combat. At the end, he loses the same amount (temporary). After 3 uses, he is hooked. He'll have to take one cherry each day or have those 10% gone all day. The Temple of Alphatia, in Rhuboka This temple is considered the capital for all Arogansan Alphatia worshippers. Unlike Haven and Bettelyn, which have their own views of peace, these Alphatia worshippers believe in a philosophy of "peace through strict discipline". In other words, the slightest infraction of the law should be punished severely, that society will remain at peace. They consider it a moral duty to support the magistrates, and support all laws. The Temple of Rathanos in Bluenose This is the major religion in Arogansa. There are probably more worshippers of Rathanos here, than in any other mainland kingdom of Alphatia. This is not to say, however, that the religion has a sway over the community. Only about 30% of Arogansans are religious at all, and about 18% worship Rathanos. And even that number, is filled with lukewarm worshippers and those merely mouth the faith due to the pressures of the particular community they live in. This is why Rathanos has to move carefully in Arogansa. Open disagreement with a law, such as the dungeon preservation law, could result in suspicion from the local authorities. Indeed, the temple often sends clerics secretly into these protected dungeons in order to consecrate even a small portion. When caught, the priests are supposed to try desperately to rid themselves of their holy symbols, in order that the religion will not be recognized. Even so, the temple will disavow any knowledge of the priest's actions. THINGS TO DO Arogansa may seem, at first glance, to be an odd realm in which to seek adventure. Dungeons are available, but it is a crime to have complete victory over the evil therein. This of course, only makes the adventure more exciting, especially if a priest of Rathanos has asked for help in cleansing the area, and then making his getaway before the cops come. Then, there is the option of helping out a slave, commoner, or nonspellcasting gentryman, who finds himself on the receiving end, of the harsh justice of Arogansa. That could lead anywhere, with the rescued victim possibly becoming a friend, and possibly turning the heroes in, for thwarting justice, and further exacerbating his crime. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #170 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 171 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part II [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part III [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part IV Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer Re: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention (repost) [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia NOT needed. [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:47:37 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I "Picture all the crystals as a huge, multidimensional web, with the crystals themselves being the place where strands are joined, and the strands being links. The Greatest Crystal lies at the center, and a strand, or link, connects each greater crystal to it. And remember, there are secrets within secrets within secrets..." - --Master Terari Crystals of Communication These items, varying in color from clear to pink to red-black, allow a certain amount of communication over vast distances. Beyond communication, there is even some level of interaction. The range is infinite, while both parties are on the same plane, or not under the influence of anti-magic (such as being in the Hollow World). In a sense, it is not simply one item, rather an entire setting which is accessed by that item. There are strong incentives to keeping the fashioning, use, and even existence of these crystals a secret. There are 2 basic elements to the crystal. One is the crystal itself, which must be attuned to the user, and the other is the link. Links are the nonmaterial paths over which communication and interaction occurs. Attunement When one picks up a crystal, he becomes aware of "something" attached to the crystal. It is an empathic sense of a bundle of strands leading off into the void. If the holder concentrates on a strand, he establishes contact and becomes attuned to the crystal. A newly created crystal has only one link. Therefore, contact is established with the holder of the parent crystal. If the crystal is older, and has more than one link, then the particular down which contact is established, is random. Links There are 2 ways in which a link is established: 1) Parent and child crystals(explained further down) are automatically linked 2) Any person already attuned to a crystal, who presses a bleeding finger to another crystal has established a link. Wards may be placed on links to prevent unwanted contact. There are several spells and skills which may temporarily, or, in some rare cases, permanently sever a link. Establishing contact After becoming properly attuned to the crystal, one may easily establish contact along a link, simply by concentrating for one round. The initiator of the contact sends his mind along the link, and "requests" interaction. The destination is the person who is attuned to the crystal at the other end, as long as he is within 100' of the crystal. If not, then no contact may be established. The recipient feels a brushing in the back of the mind, easily recognizable as a request for contact, provided he has ever been contacted before. However, there is no means of discerning precisely who is contacting. Communication/attack The first part is easy, provided the recipient is willing. If the person feels the brush at the back of his mind, and opens his end of the link, then communication may occur. It is completely mental, but requires concentration to maintain. An attack occurs in any of the following scenarios: 1) Instead of requesting contact, the initiator states his desire to attack, 2) Instead of simply refusing contact, an unwilling recipient states his desire to attack, 3) If an initiator is attempting to break a ward. The first scenario may present a surprise for the recipient (rolled for normally) and the 2nd may be a surprise for the initiator. The attack itself is determined by having both sides add up as many of the following as apply, and add that number to a d100. The higher roll wins, and the difference is applied to the table below the bonuses. Mage: +1 Pure Alphatian: +1 Greatest Crystal: +15 Greater Crystal: +5 Will Training Skill: +1 to +5 Additional "temporary" bonuses: Surprise: +10 Distracted: -10 Results of Will Battle(based on the difference between victor andloser) 10--stunned 1 round. victor has surprise for next round, if combat is continued 30--damage 1d10 50--damage 2d10 80--paralysis 2d4 rounds 95--unconscious 100--death *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:48:10 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part II There are 3 different versions of the Crystal of Communication. The Greatest Crystal is an altar-sized object that lies at the heart of the Imperial Palace and is attuned to the Empress herself. The Greater Crystals are created by sacrificing a slave atop the Greatest Crystal. The blood congeals into crystals much smaller than the Greatest. They are about heart-size, and when washed, are completely clear. From the time of Kerothar till the reign of Tylion III, imperial princes and princesses were brought before the Greatest Crystal to have greater crystals made for them, or passed to them. By the latter, I mean as an inheritance. Tylion III put a stop to the creation of the greater crystals, as he felt the methods involved were needlessly barbaric. In his words, "Are we Alphatians? Are we Thyatians? I daresay we are the former!" Lesser crystals are created through the sacrifice of any being (not just human or sentient). A greater crystal must rest atop the victim's heart in order to work, and the resulting lesser crystals are the size of a man's palm. Crystal Maximum number of links Greatest Unknown Greater 12 Lesser 6 "Picture all the crystals as a huge, multidimensional web, with the crystals themselves being the place where strands are joined, and the strands being links. The Greatest Crystal lies at the center, and a strand, or link, connects each greater crystal to it. And remember, there are secrets within secrets within secrets..." - --Master Terari It is not required for a crystal holder to be a mage or a priest. There are, however, dangers involved for those who don't know what they are doing. It is rumored that one trained in the Craft of the Crystal Seer, can sever links, force unwanted links, and even send creatures through a link to do battle. The "Crystal world" can be imagined, as Terari said, as a huge web radiating from the central crystal. Simple communication may be achieved with the different points along the web, and if the way is known, travel may be had between the various points. Strands are joined at the crystal, so one may well assume the joinings also represent those who are attuned to the crystal. This is not always the case. In some rare instances crystals have become attuned to an area. Depending on how long the attunement has been in place, the crystal (and the place itself) may have gained sentience. In this case, contact and combat occur with a very elemental intelligence. The results do of combat do not really apply as normal in these situations, rather it is more like "beating to submission". When an initiator of contact battles and wins against a place, he is free to move to that place, or gate creatures there. But he does not ever "kill" the intelligence. To do that, one must actually travel to the place, and cast all sorts of purification spells. One might also find crystals that have been attuned to any sort of intelligent creature...orcs, dragons...rarely undead. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:48:46 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part III "I have told you of the blood crystals, and of the links, and of the typical usage of the items. You now understand how a link may be made, and you have a rudimentary concept of the sorts of things that may pass along a link, communication and attack. Finally, you know of wards, and their uses in defense, if you should ever find yourself possessed of a crystal. "I touched on one of the specific skills involved, which may be learned if one is fortunate enough to find someone willing to teach. Keep in mind, the Greatest Crystal is in the possession of the Imperial Crown, and from it, all crystals and links descend. So too, are all the skills originating from that central repository of knowledge. A member of the imperial family teaches a loyal lord, who in turn teaches an apprentice. Over the centuries, the knowledge has gotten more and more away from the crown, though an attempt, to at least keep the the knowledge out of the public eye, is made." - --Master Terari Common Skills These skills are learnable by anyone. 1) Crystal Will Enhancement--this provides a direct modifier to will battles involving the crystal and involving intelligent weapons. 2) Mental Block--this is a simple, nonmagical skill, involving the user concentrating on a mundane object (usually a brick wall) and visualizing it in explicit detail. A successful skill check will act as a blocking ward to anyone trying to contact the person. He will still feel the attempt to contact him, even through the ward. To maintain the block, strict concentration must be held. Therefore, the person may only move at half speed, and will lose concentration if attacked. 3) Sever contact--while this skill does not actually sever the link, it will sever contact and is useful if one is losing a will battle. The skills are learnable by anyone, but typically are taught only within the circles of the secret Craft of Crystal Seeing. It is rare to find anyone willing to teach a nonmember, and likely the tutor would be contacted by other Seers after dispensing such information. The Craft of Crystal Seeing These fellows know a little more about the crystals, and perceive the crystals and links as a vast world/plane/universe. This "place" is known as Tirna Cryst'ogh, and is spoken of as a theoretical place, or a metaphor, among the lower members. The higher members are actually aware of its real existence, but whether the place is an actual plane, crystal sphere, or a mutual delusion among the Seers, is unknown. 1st Circle: Crystal Hopping--successfully accomplished, this allows the mage to bypass the termination of a link, and move his mind along a link connecting to that termination. In this manner, communication is astronomically increased. Failure leaves one helpless and open to attack from the termination point. The being at the termination point may choose to attack or communicate. If he attacks, he does so with the surprise bonus. Whether communication or attack happens or not, once the contact is severed from the termination point, the Seer will find himself back at the beginning and must start over again. 2nd Circle: Domination--a result of "stun" or "paralysis" from the crystal will battle will give the Seer the option to attack again, with the victory being a Magic Jar-like effect. The Seer's original body will be mostly unresponsive, almost comatose, responding only to general directions like "go forward", "eat", "sleep" and such. The Seer would be wise to have very trusted servants on hand. 3rd Circle: Crystal Sending--the Seer may send a creature along an open link. The other end of the link either had to be willing to communicate, or be stunned, paralyzed, unconscious, or dead. The creature has to be present and either willing, or unable to flee (caged, chained, tied). Only living things may be sent through the link, so the chains, cages, and rope will all be left behind. 4th Circle: Hidden Contact--success means the Seer has opened contact, along an unwarded link, with a termination point. This allows the Seer to listen in on conversations, and to send creatures with a little more subtlety. Set/Slam Ward--once a week a ward may be set. The ward may be of any of the spell types, known by the caster. The same skill allows the Seer to "slam" a ward down on a link. This can be useful in severing contact. 5th Circle: Enter Tirna Cryst'ogh--the mage may actually enter the land of the crystals. He perceives this world as a series of crystal globes, connected by crystal tubes. Outside of the globes, visions and portents may sometimes be seen. The mage may travel along the links (tubes) and arrive at termination points, from which he may make a second throw to re-enter the real world. Wards are perceived as magical symbols, and must be handled through the same methods as "Symbol", or by attempting to break the link. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 16:49:21 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part IV Wards Wards may be established through spell or craft. The spells follow, listed by level. They may be either clerical or mage, and they come in a variety of flavors. All may be cast on self or on another creature by touch. Level 1: Single Shield--blocks one link. It is as if a wall seperates the user from the receiver. 2 hour duration. Level 2: MindMask--the spell we all know and love, will sever all links for a duration of 2 hours. Level 4: Improved Ward--this sets a permanent until broken or dropped ward, similar to Single Shield. Level 6: Trap Ward--attempting to break this ward results in one of the following effects, each a seperate spell: fire, lightning, acid, cold, monster, stun, and mind. - --Each of the damaging wards cause d6 per level of the caster in damage. - --The monster ward releases a monster (usually a shadow), effectively breaking concentration. - --Stun lasts for 2d4 rounds and leaves the victim open to attack from the other end of the link. - --The Mind Trap Ward actually imprisons the mind of the attacker along the link. The attacker's mind cannot leave the link until the ward is broken. The disadvantage is that the mind of the attacker may still be able to attack the formerly warded individual. - --Since each effect is a seperate spell, you have Fire Trap Ward, Lightning Ward, Acid Ward, etc. Each may be discovered and learned seperately. The ward is permanent until broken or dropped. Level 7: Death Ward--effects are identical to the 8th level spell, Symbol. A given Death Ward is only useable on one link. Level 8: Mind Barrier--straight out of the book, this will last for one hour per level of the caster, and is unbreakable. There are two methods of following a link. One, the most clumsy way, is to barrel along the link to the destination. This leaves one open to the effects of any damaging wards. The second method is more of a gentle touch, slowly moving along the link with one's mind until either the destination is reached, or a block is encountered. The ward's presence may be sensed in this manner, but there is only one way to find out exactly what the ward is. It is unlikely that a first-time user of a crystal will even be aware of the option to move slowly. Therefore, an ignorant user can easily get himself killed. To Break a Ward Once one realizes a ward is in place, either through having blundered into it, or through having sensed it, one may attempt to break the ward. Any tampering with a ward, causes the being at the other end to immediately be aware of the attempt. Therefore, surprise may only be gained by breaking through the ward in the first round. After that first round, surprise is rolled as normal for combat. A crystal will battle occurs, rolled as above, but with none of the results. If the attacker wins, the ward is broken. If he loses, he takes whatever effect is designated by the ward. Multiple attempts may be taken in this manner. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:38:31 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer In a message dated 4/13/99 5:52:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: << Isnt the region that you mention (see below) part of Denagoth? Denagoth is described in "Saga of the Shadowlord" and some of the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, as is Wendar. >> Sorry, I have like five Mystara Products, so I just wanted to know which PWA Wendar is in? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:28:19 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I Jeff Daly meandered fecklessly... > "Picture all the crystals as a huge, multidimensional web, with the > crystals themselves being the place where strands are joined, and the > strands being links. The Greatest Crystal lies at the center, and a > strand, or link, connects each greater crystal to it. And remember, > there are secrets within secrets within secrets..." > --Master Terari Been reading a lot of cyberpunk lately, Jeff? : ) Or playing a lot of of it? Good stuff. I'll have to save it. Reminds me of a couple of ideas I had in the past. One was for a series of astral conduits that connected a web-work of library vaults, and a mage had to have a special type of crystal ball to astrally project himself into it. The vaults were all warded by their owners, but there were special spells to get through, or trace other people's movements, or for attack. In other words, cyberspace for D&D. The other is one I will be using for a fantasy world of my own design, were the members of the only significant sorcerers guild have access to The Engine, a huge magical construct, and one of its powers is communication to anyone wearing the guild's symbolic, though magical, gauntlet. Anyway, keep up the good work. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 10:45:50 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention (repost) Hey all, I remind you that we are hosting a Mystara Convention in Paris in August, and we'd love to see as many Mystarafans come as possible! Please drop me a note at herve@hotmail.com to let me know if you're coming. Note: The convention's primary goal is to allow European Mystarans to meet and talk and play, but we welcome non-Europeans too of course. *European Mystara Convention* Site and date: The convention takes places in Paris, France, from August 2nd 1999 to August 4th 1999. The room where we meet is located at: 22 Avenue de la Porte d'Asničres, Paris 17čme (1st building, ground level). Metro: Wagram, Pereire. RER: Pereire. Bus: 53, 94, PC. Train: Pont-Cardinet. Interactive map: http://www.ismap.com/Cgi-Bin/geo/webmap.exe?numero=22&adresse=Avenue+d e+la+Porte+d%27Asnieres&type=4&dp=3&sql=&xbmp=400&ybmp=250&model=_is.m od&lng=a&bdd=par The hotel where we book rooms: xxx. Metro: xxx. Interactive map: xxx. Planning: Prior to Day 1: We start on a monday so people can come during the week-end and spend it in Paris if they wish. Day 1: Monday 2. 2pm: 1st meeting. We all gather at the convention room, meet, get our gift , and start discussing about Mystara. Discussion can include things like why we like mystara, how we want it evolve, what makes it stand apart, whether we want it back or only on the net, why we like this country or that culture or that NPC, ... People can stay as late as they wish in the night discussing in broad or small groups on various subjects. During the day it is also possible to sign on for various RPG sessions that will be held tuesday. Items can be sold/purchased if some brought stuff they want to part from. Food and drink available. Day 2: Tuesday 3. All RPGs start at their set time (morning, afternoon... depends on the DM). It is a roleplaying day. Play can continue into the night and morning if needed... Food and drink available. Day 3: Wednesday 4. 2pm: We meet again. We discuss Mystara again. We ask if everyone enjoyed the convention and what they'd want to see next year (or not see again). We vote on the site of next year's convention. When we've had enough, we go together to the Champs and sit at a cafe to drink something together (if alcohol at your own expense). Then we split. After: People who wish to visit Paris more can do it the rest of the week if they can take enough vacation... Also some may reside in the same hotel, or even if they don't they may have made good friends with others, and may then spend some more time together either visiting Paris, or discussing and/or rolepaying more... Fee: EURxxx for the convention including meeting room, food&drink (not alcohol), gift, gaming material and various stuff (paid to us in advance). EURxxx for the hotel room per day (single) or EURxxx per day (twin, if we can find another person who wants a twin room at the same dates) (paid to us in advance, if you reside there). Inscription must be made before April 30th 1999. Payment must be made in euros or in french francs before May 31st 1999 to xxx. Checks, money orders or bank transfer (account number & other relevant banking information needed) accepted. Notes: Hotel: You may wish to book a hotel room somewhere else (or something else than an hotel room), but in that case you should search for yourself. Alcohol/Smoke: Alcohol can be brought in but it is at your own expense (please avoid getting drunk during convention meetings). Smoking is better done outside during breaks (it'll be summer). Gift: What the gift consists in is a secret until the convention. It is Mystara-relevant, and will be available only to people who sign up for the convention. If you cannot make it to the convention, your gift will be sent to you by the post (but we keep your money, see below). Refund: There will be no refunds unless the convention is cancelled altogether. But you will receive your gift by the post soon afterwards. Cost: This document is not finished and lacks some info, especially costs. They will be added when we have them. The more we are the lower the price for each of us (better bargains, fixed costs shared). Current estimates are: around EUR30 for the convention, around EUR50/day for the hotel room. Euro: We have a new currency, let's use it! FYI EUR1=FRF6.55957. Non-European: You can sign up for the convention. You can sign up for the convention just to get the gift if you wish to (anyone can do that, actually). No inscription: If you haven't signed up for the convention in due time, you may decide at the last minute to come anyway. This is at the risk of not having a place (especially no gift). Also, you'll have to book your hotel room yourself. The sooner you warn, the more chance you have we can do something for you. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:57:32 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia NOT needed. Fabrizio Paoli wrote: > BTW: please don't use "Forza Italia" as subject. It is the name of a > political party, and, AFAIK, the Italians on this list don't like it very > much. Right, Ezio? ;-) > Eheh... I almost jumped on my chair when I first noticed the subject. :))) Of course, anyone is allowed to have his political opinions... If and only if I agree with them. :) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:00:54 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery stan wrote: > >3) IN D&D, thieves have some chances of failure reading a magical > >scroll. May be, such problems could be well represented by increasing > >the chance of failure of pooint 2) for thief class. > > Yeah, I was thinking of that when you mentioned it. With the additional > XP required for each circle and increase failure chances do you think that > increased levels as per suggestion 1 are also required? Well, let'see... thieves pay higher xp to gain circles, have *much* better Hide in Shadow skills than the corresponding thieves, increased failure chances... a couple of levels? Oh, well. As you like. :) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 03:33:51 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 >> << Valamaeraen: Bronze male, in Karameikos (MML) >> >> >> >> I thought the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix said Gold Dragons were the >> only metallic dragons on Mystara? > >It does say that. The Dracology section in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic also seems to >support it, but not all other sources do. PWA III has a copper dragon as the >guardian of the staff that Sitara Rohini (did I get that name right?) is sent by >Gareth to recover. >I think it's just a case of how individual writers interpreted the change to AD&D. >The writers of the Monstrous Compendium wanted to keep the selection of dragons >the same as in OD&D, but other writers (such as Ann Dupuis for PWA III) felt that >the change to AD&D meant they had a chance to use a bunch of AD&D monsters (which >has nothing inherently wrong with it, I might add; it's just a different point of >view). >Ultimately, I think it just comes down to the individual DM's decision as to what >dragons exist in his/her version of Mystara, especially since the canon sources >don't agree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a bronze dragon in the original blue book? I can't find my copy, but I'm almost certain that stats were given for it. Since most of the early D&D stuff was retrofitted to either the future or the past of "present-day" Mystara (ca. 1000-20 AC), perhaps bronze dragons are now extinct, or haven't been formed yet. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:22:15 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram > I noticed the same thing myself. I imagine it's just a matter of liking the > name, and reusing it later on (if you notice, Bruce wrote GAZ3 and M1). He > does the same thing in other places, notably the use of Cucurbita Pepo, a > druid, in module CM7: Tree of Life, and in the Voyage of the Princess Ark > (in Robrenn). Actually I thought that Cucurbita Pepo was supposed to be the same character in CM7 and VotPA. After all Robrenn isn't that far from the Sylvan Realm. Jacob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:32:32 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > At least it was against the Thyatian nature as magic is "effective", > but it were the Thothians to use this effective way. Of course this > did not pose a problem for the commoners. Some legionnairies > were fighting and dying in a distant country - business as usual. Yes, exactly. > > And as for curing the grain disease, they had people working on it, > > but it was far too massive a problem for even a few hundred cool > > clerics to deal with. I'm assuming that literally hundreds of > > thousands of people were affected here, and there really *are* limits > > to a cleric's power. So yes, the common peolple might be mad at some > > clerics but not for the reasons I was talking about. And since there > > were some clerics trying to clear up the problems, they might actually > > not be mad at all... > > There are at least 250 wizards of level 36. It is reasonable to > assume that there were even more clerics of level 36. All those > spellcasters together should be able to quell the plague in > only one day or so. They didn't. Why? Ok, let's say that about 1/2 of the clerics felt that they should do something about it. Each of them can pray for 9 (?) Cure Disease spells per day. Gee, there'd have to be 1 cleric per ca. 10 people. If there's 10.000 people you need 1.000 clerics for one day, right. And if there's 100.000 people, that makes 10.000 clerics. And the disease is spreading. It's a plague! The sanitary conditions in Thyatis City are immensely inadequate (there're like 600.000 people (?) in the city)! The plague will spread throughout the city as quickly as it possilby can. And the clerics themselves will contract the plague if they're in contact with it; meaning that they'd have to reserve cures for themselves. The only reasonable way to quell it would be to eliminate the source; that is the grain. But how does Cure Disease affect grain? And what about the people that are dying while the clerics are curing the grain? I think that the people would want the clerics to cure them and not the grain. And I'm assuming that the clerics actually know that the disease comes from the grain, which I'm not so sure is correct. And if they don't eliminate the source the plague will just be reintroduced whenever bread is distributed to the general populace. I hardly think taht the clerics were able to quell the plague; even if there were say 500 36th-level clerics working on it. Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #171 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 172 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Insanity, Horror, and the Outer Beings in Mystara] Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram [MYSTARA] - Re: - Forza Italia Needed ... [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:34:02 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a bronze dragon in the > original blue book? I can't find my copy, but I'm almost certain that > stats were given for it. Since most of the early D&D stuff was > retrofitted to either the future or the past of "present-day" Mystara > (ca. 1000-20 AC), perhaps bronze dragons are now extinct, or haven't > been formed yet. What's the original blue book ? Expert? There're no bronze dragons in Expert... Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:35:15 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New Gazeteer > << Isnt the region that you mention (see below) part of Denagoth? Denagoth is > described in "Saga of the Shadowlord" and some of the Poor Wizard's > Almanacs, as is Wendar. >> > > Sorry, I have like five Mystara Products, so I just wanted to know which PWA > Wendar is in? Wendar is mentioned in PWA AC 1011, 1012 and given a whole section in Joshuan's Almanac, I think. Jacob, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:32:47 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a bronze dragon in the >original blue book? I can't find my copy, but I'm almost certain that >stats were given for it. Since most of the early D&D stuff was >retrofitted to either the future or the past of "present-day" Mystara >(ca. 1000-20 AC), perhaps bronze dragons are now extinct, or haven't >been formed yet. Stats for the brass dragon were included in that ancient, blue-on-white edition of the oD&D rules (the one with a red dragon on its cover), some time before the Basic boxed set came out. The gold dragon was not in that edition, however. Maybe prehistoric brass dragons evolved into the golds.... ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:10:37 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Insanity, Horror, and the Outer Beings in Mystara] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Insanity, Horror, and the Outer Beings in Mystara Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:43:48 -0400 Insanity, Horror, and the Outer Beings in Mystara: by Geoff Gander This article is intended to add some basic insanity and horror rules to the Mystara setting, as well as provide some additional information about the Outer Beings, and how these rules apply to them. Who Are the Outer Beings?: Those who have become aware of the Outer Beings have always been given to pondering their nature. These entities are extremely powerful - mightier even than the Immortals on an individual basis, and their origins are obscure to all but the oldest of Immortals. It is thought that the Outer Beings themselves do not remember their own origins. Despite their vast reserves of strength, the Outer Beings have been constrained for untold millennia by arcane powers, so that they would not be able to interfere in the world's affairs. Sages, wizards, and their like who know of the Outer Beings, know that they are horrible, both in their physical appearance and nature, but also in terms of what they would do if they were ever released into the world once more. Beyond this, and the theorized connection between certain forms of insanity and their influence, little is known about these beings. The truth about the Outer Beings is something known only to the Old Ones, current and former Hierarch Immortals, and, of course, the DM. Untold aeons ago, the Outer Beings co-existed with the Old Ones; indeed, they were in many ways "cousins" to these enigmatic beings, equal in power. They co-operated in the shaping of many worlds, and both Outer Being and Old One tended their charges in their own ways. Even in the beginning, the Outer Beings' worlds were chaotic and unstable, producing nothing but strife in those regions they controlled. Though they shared many of the powers held by the Old Ones, the Outer Beings lacked the discipline and the sense of order necessary to wield them responsibly. Thus, their creations rarely lasted long, and even when they did, they were fundamentally flawed. Always they coveted the beautiful worlds tended by the Old Ones, above all the planet known as Mystara (and the rest of the Prime Plane for that matter), for it, above all other worlds, lay at the nexus point of powerful energies, imbuing it with its own potent source of magic. Eventually, the Outer Beings staged an attack against the Old Ones, assaulting them personally, and sending their legions of servitors to all the worlds they could find, so that they could be brought under control. This great battle lasted millennia, and in the process whole galaxies were destroyed by the titanic energies that were released. Eventually, some of the less abhorrent Outer Beings switched sides, and aided the Old Ones in securing a final victory against their former companions. In the aftermath, the Outer Beings were stripped of many of their powers, and the most powerful ones were sealed away into their own pocket dimensions, from which they could not escape. Lesser Outer Beings were also locked away, but they were not separated from each other, as they were deemed to be less dangerous. Many of their servitor races were also locked away, or destroyed outright, for the abominations that they were. The Old Ones then spent the next several millennia stabilizing the multiverse, after which they elected to remove themselves from the planes, so that such mighty powers could not be unleashed freely again. Before doing so, however, they created a new breed of caretakers for the multiverse - the Immortals. Shortly before withdrawing from the multiverse, the Old Ones told the first Hierarch Immortals about the threat posed by the Outer Beings, and bid them keep that sacred knowledge to themselves. Only upon reaching the exalted rank of Hierarch in a Sphere of Immortality, would the knowledge be conveyed, as well as the stricture that it must not be shared with anyone. No records exist of any Immortal breaking this sacred trust; even former Hierarchs, who retain the knowledge even after their fall from grace, do not violate this rule. Now, the Old Ones simply watch the affairs of the multiverse, their aims unknown. In the meantime, sentient life developed on many worlds, some of which managed to attain Immortality in its own right. The Outer Beings noticed this and, eager to rebuild their armies of servitors, immediately sought means of weakening the barriers imprisoning them, and corrupting the minds of those who would pry too deeply into the sealed regions of the planes. Today, the Outer Beings still plot to free themselves from their prisons, eager to wreak revenge on those who deprived them of what they see as their destiny. Some inhabitants of Mystara have come into contact with them, and while some have been won over by their dark promises of easy power, most who deal with them are driven mad by their contact with such horrible beings, and their utterly alien thoughts - eventually. The Outer Beings and Insanity: Although Mystara is considered by and large to be a world of epic fantasy, a realm of bold warriors and cunning sorcerers, a place of magic and wonder; it also harbours dark secrets. The threat posed by the Outer Beings since their imprisonment so long ago by the Old Ones, while indirect, is very real. Some of their lesser servitor races are known to inhabit certain less-frequented regions of the planet, and small portions of the indigenous races of Mystara have sworn allegiance to these utterly evil entities. Knowledge of the Outer Beings and their foul machinations has always existed among the various peoples of Mystara, in one form or another, though in more recent times that knowledge has begun to spread. Rumoured sightings of strange creatures are also on the rise, though many still dismiss these as products of overactive imaginations, or at worst sightings of humanoids mistakenly identified as something else. Making matters all the more suspicious is the appearance of the Day of Dread. On that day, the absence of magic is thought by some to temporarily weaken the seals on the Outer Beings' prisons, even though those were not fashioned with mortal magic. On those days, mental illnesses are believed to worsen overall, and the prevalence of nightmares increases. Treatment and Therapy for the Mentally Insane: Charitable organizations, temples, and the like have noted increasing numbers of people seeking counsel and aid against "horrible monsters" and "things which should not be". Some of these are surely the products of overactive imaginations, or chance encounters in dark alleys, but others continue to boggle observers and scholars. Although most people coming to these facilities are in a state of mild shock, or otherwise stunned, others have been admitted as raving lunatics, screaming about things they have seen that are just too horrid to behold, creatures that do not even remotely resemble any normal creature they have seen. In more developed nations, where there are means to care for such individuals, some of these victims might be treated, and possibly cured. In less-developed nations, such raving madmen are often abandoned, and left to wander the streets. Availability of Treatment: In a medieval world such as Mystara, there are few places where those who are driven insane may find treatment. In most cases, the life of a madman is cruel, and short. Most people tend to shun them, seeing them as cursed, or possessed by evil spirits or in the service of some evil Immortal, but this unfriendly treatment can extend all the way to open hostility towards the insane person, or treating them as some sort of amusement. Nations where treatment is available may not view the insane any more kindly - they may even consider treatment facilities as a means of getting rid of the problem - but the facilities are there for those who can afford them. Exceptions to this include sanctuaries run by religious orders or charities. In the former case, services might be provided in exchange for conversion to the faith providing the treatment, the provision of an annual tithe to the church or temple, or the performance of various tasks benefitting the religious order. Charities are much rarer, being run by wealthy "philanthropists" as a means of reducing their tax burden (in nations where tax deductions are given for charitable acts), or out of an honest desire to help others. In the latter case, such operations often survive through frequent donations, and their stability is tenuous at best, or, in very rare cases, a true humanitarian is providing some of his or her own wealth to run the facility. In addition to these, some facilities are also run by wizards, though not for the benefit of the patient. Scattered across the more developed nations of the Known World are institutions run by wizards whose sole aim is to perform heinous experiments on their patients, out of a morbid curiosity concerning their insanities and how they might have been caused. In these places, patients are considered little more than test animals, and they are treated as such; the wizards who run them know that few people will care whether a mentally ill person lives or dies, and so they operate with impunity in many nations. In the Known World of Mystara, the following nations are sufficiently developed to provide psychiatric treatment of the sorts described above, on a wide scale (ie: one facility available per 10,000 people): Alphatia, Darokin, Glantri, Shadowelven Kingdoms, Thyatis, Ylaruam. The following nations can provide psychiatric treatment of the type described above on a moderate scale (ie: one facility available per 20,000 people): Alfheim, Heldannic Territories, Kastelios, Minrothad Guilds, Rockhome, Wendar, Yavdlom. The following nations can provide psychiatric treatment of the type described above on a low scale* (ie: one facility per 40,000+ people): Five Shires, Karameikos, Hule, Ierendi, Sind. *Please note that "low scale" does not imply a lack of social development. The nation might be too poor to make such facilities financially feasible, or the population base is not large enough to support them. Other reasons could include a low incidence of insanity among the populace, different methods of treating insanity that do not require formal care, or a reverence of insanity as an exalted state of being (as might be the case in Hule). This also applies to nations not listed here. DMs should also note that, just because a given nation has a stated availability of treatment, this does not mean that such treatment is readily available at that level, or even affordable. For example, Darokin is listed as being capable of supporting one facility per 10,000 people, such that, for a city like Selenica (pop.: 40,000), there may be up to four asylums within its walls. It could only have one asylum, though, and even then, that one asylum could be a small one, capable of treating only up to 30 people. The figures given above should be considered as a guideline; just because a person is in a developed nation, it does not mean that treatment will be accessible, or affordable. Type of Treatment: The types of treatment available to the insane at these facilities is quite different from that we come to expect in our own world. In a world of magic, there would be very little incentive to develop medicinal or surgical techniques to resolving the problem. In those countries where psychiatric care is more widely available, there are growing fields of research in the areas of the causes of insanity, its effects on the average person, and magical cures to aid victims in recovering from the illnesses. The length of treatment can vary, depending on the nature of the ailment, but as a general rule, it lasts at least 3d6 months, and possibly as long as a year or more. Magical treatment can consist of regularly-prescribed potions or salves, and can extend to spells cast upon the victim. Nonmagical treatment, where it exists, would consist of regular interviews or discussions with the patient, in which the therapist attempts to help the patient deduce what is bothering him or her, and find a way of resolving it - psychoanalysis. In facilities run by religious groups, insanity is sometimes attributed to heresy, and only through conversion or the admission of sins will it be cured. In Sind, where emphasis is placed upon sound minds and bodies, some monasteries have been known to shelter the insane, using yogic exercises and meditation to treat people, sometimes with miraculous results. As a final note, "quackery" is rife in Mystaran psychiatry, with roving "experts" travelling the byways of the Known World, plying their "magical" cure-alls and imploring upon the Immortals to cure the afflicted, all in exchange for readily available sums of money. Some of them have been known to falsely diagnose people of mental problems they did not know they had (and which do not even exist), in order to boost their own standards of living. Due to the relative novelty of psychiatry on Mystara, no nation has yet enacted a series of laws, or a code of conduct, by which all psychiatrists and therapists must act. As such, quackery is not illegal in itself, but the associated acts (theft, willful deceit, peddling without a license) most certainly are. The Typical Asylum: Most facilities for treating the insane are simple affairs: average-sized buildings containing living quarters for patients, and offices and general purpose rooms for the usage of staff. Living conditions in these asylums vary greatly, ranging from comfortable in well-funded facilities, to abysmal in those that have fewer resources. The better-equipped, and more expensive, facilities often have large walled enclosures surrounding the building itself, where patients can walk outside and relax, or exercise. In most cases, well-funded asylums are kept separate from urban areas, in order to isolate the patients from the rigours of the city, as well as keep them out of sight. Asylums in urban areas, especially those that are squalid, offer little insulation for their patients, and in some cases, cityfolk will visit these places as a means of amusing themselves, by watching the insane go about their activities. Most asylums tend to be rather small, being capable of treating 11-30 (10 + 1d20) patients at any one time, plus a few rooms for overnight staff (in case patients get violent during the night). Staff is also quite small, being roughly 3-8 people (1d6+2) in most asylums, most of these being caregivers or supervisors. In all asylums there is at least one psychiatrist, or at least a general theoretician in the study of mental illnesses. This person may or may not be a magic user or cleric. In larger facilities, there is also a small group of administrative clerks as well, who balance the books and maintain records of each patient's progress. Where there are not enough resources to hire such people, the caregivers or supervisors themselves will take on these jobs. Cost of Treatment: Due to its rarity on Mystara, psychiatric care, even that of poor quality, is very expensive. Even in developed nations, most people would have to travel considerable distances to find an asylum, and even then their capacity to handle patients is very limited. Most average-sized asylums could not greatly exceed their maximum capacity, before the workload would begin to exhaust the staff. Fees are usually assigned on a weekly or monthly basis, covering accommodation, food, staff salaries, and treatment. Most asylums will "encourage" payment in advance, for a specified period of time according to a contract, as well. This of course does not apply to those facilities run by wealthy philanthropists, or religious groups, who will provide services for a nominal fee, or a tithe or conversion in the latter case. If the facility in question is not run by a wealthy religious group or a philanthropist, funding is always a concern. There are always problems in ensuring staff is paid regularly, and enough food is available for the patients. Some facilities, desperate to make ends meet, or morally bankrupt, have been known to sell their "hopeless" patients - those they do not think they will be able to cure - to any who offer a decent price. All too often, these patients are sold to wealthy, misanthropic wizards, some of whom run asylums of their own. As mentioned above, life in these facilities is anything but pleasant, nor is it likely to be very long. In general, the basic cost of caring for a patient depends on the location of the asylum. In large urban areas, where resources are abundant, the cost will tend to be lower than in isolated locations. The chart below provides some guidelines for determining the monthly costs of treating someone, based on the type of locale and size of facility: Type of Locale* Size of Facility** Minimum Monthly Cost of Treatment*** Urban Small 4 gp Rural Small 6 gp Urban Medium 7 gp Rural Medium 10 gp Urban Large 12 gp Rural Large 20 gp *The type of locale is divided into urban and rural regions. "Urban" is defined as a region in which the population is centred on a settlement that is town-sized or larger (1,000 inhabitants or more). "Rural" is defined as a region in which the local population is less than 1,000. **The size of the facility is subdivided into "small", "medium", and "large" facilities. Small facilities can house 11-30 (10 +1d20) patients, and have 3-8 (1d6+2) staff members. Medium facilities can care for 21-40 people (20 +1d20), and have 8-16 (8 + 1d8) staff members. Large facilities can accommodate 31-70 (30 + 2d20) patients, and employ 16-25 (15 +1d10) staff members. ***By adventurers' standards, these fees may seem small, but they are very expensive to the average peasant. Large, well-equipped facilities charge more per month than many families make in an entire year. This cost takes into account salaries for staff (with psychiatrists being the most expensive, and large facilities possibly attracting spellcasters willing to spend a few hours per month providing magical aid), food, the cost of accommodation itself, and other factors. Although a larger size does defray some of the costs, having a larger number of patients erodes much of the advantage. Some asylums have been known to offer their services in exchange for services rendered, especially to those families clearly in need, yet lacking the necessary money. As a rule, this happens rarely, but when it does, relatives of the patient often find themselves performing menial tasks the staff do not wish to do. Horror Ratings & Horror Checks: Mystara is a world of magic and wonder, but it still contains its menaces. Though adventurers become accustomed, over the course of their careers, to monsters of many types, there are still some creatures that fundamentally disturb even the staunchest minds. Many of these creatures are the foul progeny of the Outer Beings, while others have their origins in the Dimension of Nightmares. Regardless, all of these creatures have certain attributes which, for whatever reason, have been known to disturb fundamentally the mental balance of many people. The table below classifies each otherworldly or horrifying creature according to a "Horror Rating", which is measured on 1d20. When such a creature is encountered, the DM makes a secret "Horror Check" by rolling against the creature's Horror Rating. If the number rolled is equal to or less than the creature's Horror Rating score, the person who met the creature may develop an insanity as a result of the encounter. Please note that the descriptions of the creatures listed here are available in the source indicated. Creature Source Horror Rating Athach Rules Cyclopaedia 4 Beholder (& Undead Beholder) Rules Cyclopaedia 6 Brain Collector (Neh-Thalggu) AC 9: Creature Catalogue 10 Diabolus Wrath of the Immortals 2 Hag, Sea Rules Cyclopaedia 7 Haunt Rules Cyclopaedia 3 Lich Rules Cyclopaedia 3 Malfera Rules Cyclopaedia 11 Medusa Rules Cyclopaedia 4 Mummy Rules Cyclopaedia 3 Nekrozon (Catoblepas) Rules Cyclopaedia 2 Nuckalavee Rules Cyclopaedia 6 Outer Being The Book* 20 Phantom Rules Cyclopaedia 3 Servitor of Ubbeth The Book* 2 Servitor of Yurrgh-Thal, Greater The Book* 13 Servitor of Yurrgh-Thal, Lesser The Book* 7 Spectral Hound Rules Cyclopaedia 3 Spirit Rules Cyclopaedia 5 Zhochal (Minion of Akh'All) The Book* 3 *"The Book" denotes "Geoff's Big Book of Unspeakable Outer Being Lore" - available on several websites. Determining Insanity: Having determined whether or not a person has failed their horror check, the DM must then find out what sort of insanity will be inflicted upon the victim. This is determined in part by the creature's Horror Rating, as well as other modifiers, which are described below: Horror Rating Modifier: This modifier, positive or negative, reflects how frightening or otherworldly the creature in question appears. Negative modifiers derive from low Horror Ratings, and reflect beings that either do not appear very frightening (or they just appear "odd"), or their forms do not deviate very much from what most people interpret as "normal". Positive modifiers are the result of higher Horror Ratings, which signify that the creature is either very horrible to look at, or their appearance is just so bizarre that people have a great difficulty reconciling its existence in a "rational universe". The simple table below presents the various Horror Ratings, as well as the modifier that is derived from them. Horror Rating Insanity Check Modifier 1-2 -20% 3-6 -10% 7-9 NA 10-14 +10% 15-18 +20% 19-20 +30% Wisdom Modifier: This modifier reflects the bonuses derived from having a high Wisdom. Those with high Wisdom scores are blessed with more common sense, and have a greater ability to see through illusions to the truth the lies underneath. Such people, given their greater mental fortitude, know that there are certain things in the universe that conventional knowledge does not touch; they are better able to rationalize the existence of "darker" creatures. The table below presents the Wisdom modifiers for use in an Insanity Check: Wisdom Score Insanity Check Modifier 3 +15% 4-6 +10% 7-8 +5% 9-12 NA 13-15 -5% 16-17 -10% 18 -15% Other Modifiers: The table below, by no means exhaustive, presents other modifiers the DM may wish to consider in rolling an Insanity Check. These modifiers are situational, and cumulative: Situation Insanity Check Modifier Victim is already suffering a mental disorder +10% Victim has lost 50% of hit points or more +5% Victim has already made a successful Horror Check* -10% Victim has been blessed -5% Victim is carrying a holy symbol of some form -5% Per level of experience -1% *This bonus is applicable only in Horror Checks against that same creature, not against a different one; it is not cumulative. For example, a PC encounters a Zhochal for the second time in one day. In the first encounter with these creatures, a Horror Check was made successfully, and thus the PC gains a bonus of -10% to the Horror Check against this particular Zhochal. If he or she makes this Horror Check and encounters a third Zhochal, the PC does not gain a -20% bonus. If the second creature encountered is different, this bonus does not even apply. If, in subsequent encounters, the Horror Check is failed, this bonus is lost, and must be regained by passing a Horror Check once more. Once all of the relevant modifiers have been summed, that final number is the modifier that is applied against an Insanity Check. The base chance of suffering some form of mental malady as a result of the encounter is 50%. If the number rolled is less than the modified Insanity Check score, the person in question momentarily loses their sanity, and may suffer some form of ailment afterwards. Losing Sanity: When an Insanity Check has been failed, the victim momentarily loses his or her sanity, in which the victim is stunned and gibbering for 1d4 rounds, and could also acquire a permanent mental illness. The chance of developing such a malady is determined by how much the victim fails his or her Insanity Check. If the check is failed by 20% or more, the person develops a permanent insanity, in addition to temporarily "going insane". Permanent insanities vary according to the situation, and the DM should exercise his or her own discretion in assigning a specific insanity. The sample table of insanities below should not be construed as a definitive one; efforts have been made to cover the various mental illnesses on as general a level as possible, so as to be of use to those DMs who wish only the basic details. A more comprehensive, but by no means clinically accurate, overview of mental illnesses should consult the Complete Guide to Sanity for Fantasy Role-Playing Games, a netbook that is readily available on many websites. 1d12 Roll Type of Permanent Insanity Developed 1-2 Phobia 3-4 Personality Disorder 5-6 Nervous Breakdown 7-8 Multiple Personality 9-10 Delusion 11-12 Amnesia Phobia: The victim acquires an intense fear of an object, place, being, or other element deriving directly or indirectly from the encounter. For example, a traumatic encounter that took place in a dungeon might make the victim claustrophobic (as they might subconsciously equate enclosed spaces with the encounter), or an insanity developed at sea might make the person hydrophobic. The DM has the final word as to what sort of phobia this might be. Regardless of the phobia type, whenever the person is subjected to the trigger for that fear, he or she must make a save vs. Spells at -4 or be rendered helpless with numbing fright for 1d6 turns. His or her only thought will be to flee from the source of the trauma. Personality Disorder: This is a catch-all for a host of psychological problems a person may develop, such as obsessive-compulsive behaviour, paranoia, avoidant personality disorder, or passive-aggressive tendencies. The DM is also free to develop other disorders in this vein. All of these disorders are present at all times; there is no event or object to "activate" them. Some of them, such as paranoia, may lead to alienation from society as a whole. Nervous Breakdown: The insanity-inducing experience is so traumatic that the victim cannot function as an individual. Everything is a potential stimulus for further aggravation of the person's condition, and what he or she really needs is a nice, quiet place to recuperate. Shorter-lived races usually require several months of such treatment, while longer-lived races may require several years. It is the DM's discretion as to how much time is needed. Multiple Personality: Though technically this could be considered a personality disorder, its effect has such a great impact that it merits its own mention. The traumatic experience was so difficult for the victim that he or she "shuts it out" by means of submerging their personality and creating a new one to deal with the situation. Although the original personality should remain dominant for the most part, stressful situations (such as combat) could lead to the re-emergence of the others. Have the afflicted person make a save vs. Spells at -2, and if the save is failed, another personality comes to the fore for a duration determined by the DM, sometimes only as long as the stressful situation itself. Each new personality should be treated as a different character, possibly with a different alignment and skills. The player and the DM should discuss these alternate personalities privately, so as to make roleplaying easier. The DM should decide beforehand whether alternate personalities should be allowed to be of a different class. Delusion: The insanity-inducing experience changes fundamentally the way the victim sees and interacts with the world. This could take the form of an alignment change, for example, or lead to a proper delusion. Delusions are firmly-held conceptions about oneself, others, or the world in general, which are so forceful as to interfere with a person's everyday life, possibly leading to alienation. A delusional person could believe, for example, that his or her thoughts are being broadcasted to everyone within a certain area, or that everything being said has a reference to themselves. Other delusions include megalomania (the person thinks they are the greatest at everything), or delusions of grandeur, nihilism, persecution, guilt, or others. As already mentioned, the victim's perception of everything in general is highly skewed, such that relating to other people is very difficult. Amnesia: This disorder arises when a severe trauma is experienced, and the victim's subconscious blocks out all memories associated with that experience. This could take the form of not being able to remember any events during the time of the trauma, or nothing during the trauma or beforehand. For example, a person may have lost an arm in a battle against a lesser spawn of the Outer Beings, but he or she afterwards would only know that they lost the arm somehow. Such a memory loss could entail the loss of levels, spells, or skills - as determined by the DM. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:39:43 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Jacob Skytte wrote: > > I noticed the same thing myself. I imagine it's just a matter of liking the > > name, and reusing it later on (if you notice, Bruce wrote GAZ3 and M1). He > > does the same thing in other places, notably the use of Cucurbita Pepo, a > > druid, in module CM7: Tree of Life, and in the Voyage of the Princess Ark > > (in Robrenn). > > Actually I thought that Cucurbita Pepo was supposed to be the same > character in CM7 and VotPA. After all Robrenn isn't that far from the > Sylvan Realm. The problem was that he joins the party in Alfheim, before they get to the Sylvan Realm. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:01:20 +0200 From: "Andrea Ungaro" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: - Forza Italia Needed ... >BTW: please don't use "Forza Italia" as subject. It is the name of a >political party, and, AFAIK, the Italians on this list don't like it very >much. Right, Ezio? ;-) OK. Please, for "par condicio" (equal conditions) don't use the acronym PC (player character) or someone might say it means Partito Comunista (Communist Party) ;-) - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrea Ungaro Via G.B. Vico 6/2 16146 Genova Italia E-MAIL semperfi@tin.it ICQ# 28117234 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:53:21 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Secret Art of Shadow Mastery >From: Ezio Pignatelli > >> >3) IN D&D, thieves have some chances of failure reading a magical >> >scroll. May be, such problems could be well represented by increasing >> >the chance of failure of pooint 2) for thief class. >> >> Yeah, I was thinking of that when you mentioned it. With the additional >> XP required for each circle and increase failure chances do you think that >> increased levels as per suggestion 1 are also required? > >Well, let'see... thieves pay higher xp to gain circles, have *much* >better Hide in Shadow skills than the corresponding thieves well magic users have an infinitly better Hide in Shadow skills than the corresponding magic users - I did this because a Hide in Shadows skills for Shadow Masters seemed in order, but it would be unfair for magic users to gain the power and thieves not to have an increase in the power. >increased failure chances... a couple of levels? Oh, well. As you like. :) well I dunno, is there any other views out there? stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:30:57 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Spelljammer In Mystara Space there is different gravity, less air, and lots of cold. The wayI convert the two of them is not to convert them. If you have read any of the Spelljammer stuff it is accepted that there are some pretty odd things in Wildspace.....why not a sphere that has different laws of fantasy physics? This would explain why there are no known records of Spelljammer incursions into Mystara. They would enter the sphere, the lower decks would get tossed about, they would lose all their air, and turn into spelljammer-cicles :) Ships leaving Mystara would only have to deal with the gravity issue and the fact that they travel so slow compared to spelljamming ships. Planescape The Prime Plane - it contains Mystara, The Dimension of Myth, and Many other prime worlds. There are 3 roads (Rule of 3s?) leading from Mystara and the prime to other places. 1 The Ethereal Plane - it contains The Demiplane of Nightmares and leads to the Elemental Planes. 2. The Vortex Dimension - as it is fatal to mortals and immortals alike, could this be the home of The Old Ones? It leads to the dimension that the Beagle came from. This explains why the Federation never went looking for the Beagle. And if this is the case, are the Old Ones responsible for the Beagle going to Mystara? A test of the Immortals perhaps? 3. The Astral Plane - it leads to the The Outlands and the Outer Planes. It also leads to the Mystaran Outer Planes and Old Alphatia. In some of the Planescape material they refer to the fact that there might be other hidden planes. You could easily say that Brynn, Entrem, Mirage, Draesten, and Pyts are some of these hidden planes. Old Alphatia could also be one as it is a very large thing that couldn't fit into a normal crystal sphere. It's extra-planarness would explain why everyone there has the abilities of a first level mage. A Mystaran View The Inner (Elemental) Planes | The Ethereal Plane (The Demiplane of Nightmares) | The Prime Plane---The Vortex Dimension----The Dimension of the Beagle (Mystara) (The Dimension of Myth) (Many other prime worlds) | ------Astral Plane | | | ------------------------------------------ Old Alphatia | | | | | | | Brynn---Entrem---Mirage---Draesten---Pyts | | | | | | | ------------------------------------- | | ---------The Outlands and the other Outer Planes Questions, comments, flames? - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #172 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 16 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 173 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora III Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:15:50 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [Alphatia] Blood Crystals, Part I Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Jeff Daly meandered fecklessly... > > "Picture all the crystals as a huge, multidimensional web, with the > > crystals themselves being the place where strands are joined, and the > > strands being links. The Greatest Crystal lies at the center, and a > > strand, or link, connects each greater crystal to it. And remember, > > there are secrets within secrets within secrets..." > > --Master Terari > > Been reading a lot of cyberpunk lately, Jeff? : ) Or playing > a lot of of it? Good stuff. I'll have to save it. Thanks! Your words mean alot to me. Actually, I had this in mind for a long time, inspired by the Amber series by Roger Zelazney (by a broad definition, could be termed cyberpunk I suppose). I didn't want to steal shadow walking, prime reality, and gating trumps directly, so I adjusted it to the blood crystals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:16:56 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 The original blue book! The Basic set by Gary Gygax!!! Naked harpies, bronze dragons, and a tower destroyed by green fire. Who could ask for more? Jacob Skytte wrote: > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a bronze dragon in the > > original blue book? I can't find my copy, but I'm almost certain that > > stats were given for it. Since most of the early D&D stuff was > > retrofitted to either the future or the past of "present-day" Mystara > > (ca. 1000-20 AC), perhaps bronze dragons are now extinct, or haven't > > been formed yet. > > What's the original blue book ? Expert? There're no bronze dragons in > Expert... > > Jacob, Denmark > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:09:13 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara In a message dated 4/14/99 7:30:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: << Spelljammer In Mystara Space there is different gravity, less air, and lots of cold. The wayI convert the two of them is not to convert them. If you have read any of the Spelljammer stuff it is accepted that there are some pretty odd things in Wildspace.....why not a sphere that has different laws of fantasy physics? >> Think about it, in Greyspace gunpowder no longer works and it is much colder as well, not to mention that technically speaking each sphere is a different prime material plane, and therefore a different plane altogether. And, it says quite clearly that each dimension can have different rules, so such changes would not only be interesting, but expected as well (especially since mystara is kinda like earth, and IMOC Mystara is Earth and the original Blackmoor civilization is a high level earth that was destroyed, but a few did survive, and that was the other Blackmoor that we all know and love). <> I'm pretty sure there's a reference in some spelljammer book to a Rakasta or a Mystaran, but I am really not sure. <> Also, the surrounding planets in the Mystara Solar System <> So far so good... << 2. The Vortex Dimension - as it is fatal to mortals and immortals alike, could this be the home of The Old Ones? It leads to the dimension that the Beagle came from. This explains why the Federation never went looking for the Beagle. And if this is the case, are the Old Ones responsible for the Beagle going to Mystara? A test of the Immortals perhaps?>> Maybe its just the paraelemental plane of vacuum, that would make more sense... <<3. The Astral Plane - it leads to the The Outlands and the Outer Planes. It also leads to the Mystaran Outer Planes and Old Alphatia. In some of the Planescape material they refer to the fact that there might be other hidden planes. You could easily say that Brynn, Entrem, Mirage, Draesten, and Pyts are some of these hidden planes. Old Alphatia could also be one as it is a very large thing that couldn't fit into a normal crystal sphere. It's extra-planarness would explain why everyone there has the abilities of a first level mage.>> very good idea, after all, such timeline is what is believed to have occurred, not what actually happened A Mystaran View << The Inner (Elemental) Planes | The Ethereal Plane (The Demiplane of Nightmares) | The Prime Plane---The Vortex Dimension----The Dimension of the Beagle (Mystara) (The Dimension of Myth) (Many other prime worlds) | ------Astral Plane | | | ------------------------------------------ Old Alphatia | | | | | | | Brynn---Entrem---Mirage---Draesten---Pyts | | | | | | | ------------------------------------- | | ---------The Outlands and the other Outer Planes Questions, comments, flames? >> Okay, IMC I have the immortals being gods under a different name (after all, why would EVERY culture or different dimensions call them gods? Maybe their is such a division because of alignment clerics worshipping gods...this is rather complicated and I will post it later) so anyway, I think the immortals would live in the outer planes (note: does anyone know a source where I can get good AD&D stats for immortals, I mean I really would like to know alignment and stuff...well okay.) And (due all the Italian themed posts) Ciao! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:42:06 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > < into Mystara. They would enter the sphere, the lower decks would get tossed > about, they would lose all their air, and turn into spelljammer-cicles :) > Ships leaving Mystara > would only have to deal with the gravity issue and the fact that they travel > so slow compared to spelljamming ships.>> > > I'm pretty sure there's a reference in some spelljammer book to a Rakasta or > a Mystaran, but I am really not sure. Mystarans are mentioned in the Planewalkers Handbook. A Mystaran could get to Spelljammer via a planar gate or if the captain of the ship leaving Mystara Space knew what was waiting for him on the other side could prepare for it. > << 2. The Vortex Dimension - as it is fatal to mortals and immortals alike, > could this be the home of The Old Ones? It leads to the dimension that > the Beagle came from. This explains why the Federation never went > looking for the Beagle. And if this is the case, are the Old Ones > responsible for the Beagle going to Mystara? A test of the Immortals > perhaps?>> > Maybe its just the paraelemental plane of vacuum, that would make more > sense... In the Codex of the Immortals form WotI states that even immortals can't survive the Vortex Dimension and IIRC the Dustmen have a fortress there. Couldn't an immortal, or mortal just polymorph into a native of vacuum to survive....The Vortex Dimension sounds a bit more harsh. > <<3. The Astral Plane - it leads to the The Outlands and the Outer Planes. > It also leads to the Mystaran Outer Planes and Old Alphatia. In some of > the Planescape material they refer to the fact that there might be other > hidden planes. You could easily say that Brynn, Entrem, Mirage, > Draesten, and Pyts are some of these hidden planes. Old Alphatia could > also be one as it is a very large thing that couldn't fit into a normal > crystal sphere. It's extra-planarness would explain why everyone there > has the abilities of a first level mage.>> > > very good idea, after all, such timeline is what is believed to have > occurred, not what actually happened If I might ask, what timeline? Thanks for the imput....I might be putting a larger project along this line, detailing the Mystaran planes in Planescape format. > And (due all the Italian themed posts) Ciao! I'm learning so much about Italian politics too :) - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:05:38 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Politica Tempora III "Nor stony tower, nor walls of beaten brass..." The Blade of Cycles The Ultimate War Hidden within the highest echelons of the Sphere of Time lurks a secretive organization that has managed to hide its existence from all other Immortals, the Blade of Cycles. Dedicated to the eradication of the Oard menace from the timestream, the Blade will not rest until OardTime is annihilated. An eternal conflict, only one side may become victorious. No quarter is asked, and none given. History is their battlefield, and time their weapon. Since both sides have access to the most advanced magical and technological time-travelling spells and equipment that will ever exist, the battle known to the Blade as The Terminal War and the Oard as The Ascendancy can and does occur everywhere and everywhen. History Even though the Oard possess fantastically advanced technology, capable of damaging and even killing Immortals, the Oard know that they would not stand a chance against the aggregate Immortal community in physical combat. The Oard plan is a subtle reworking of history, so as not to attract Immortal attention, and that is why the Oard have not simply invaded, say, Thyatis or Alphatia. Oard are extremely thorough and meticulous is their planning, and managed to conceal most of their interference for most of history; if it were not for a university student, Oard victory would be a foregone conclusion. Six hundred years after the founding of New Blackmoor by the legendary Dr. Khronous, a computer science sophomore at Uther U. (Go Fighting Hide Hunters!) by the name of Caspian Dore wrote a database program for the Municipal Waste Treatment System payroll to help pay his way through college. A month after the database was implemented, Dore was called back to fix an unanticipated glitch: a municipal employee accidentally entered a negative number for hours worked, and the monitor started displaying unintelligible symbols. Dore was justifiably puzzled: he had naturally foreseen such a problem, and had written a class to catch the input error before it caused the program to abnormally terminate. Investigation revealed that an insidious virus had lain sleeping deep within the core code of the municipal server, and had been programmed to activate when a specific sequence of events occurred. The virus had been prematurely opened when the faulty input had been given to the database, quite by accident. Too caught up in midterms to think much of the origin of the virus, an over-stressed Dore quickly deleted the virus, allowing the safe input of incorrect data, and inadvertently saving New Blackmoor from alien invasion. As per Municipal Ordinance 234.5-7B6/D, Dore filled out a 27-N8EZ form, which was sanguinarily filed and forgotten. Forgotten until Khronous appeared, that is. On his third and final time-travelling escapade as a mortal, Khronous arrived five years after Dore's graduation to save New Blackmoor, this time from an internal threat, the likes of which New Blackmoor had never seen before: Information Implosion. Characterized by a neurotic need to record every minute detail in triplicate, Neo-Blackmoorites had acquired more information than they could hold, and the impending overrun could end life as they knew it (which would have really annoyed clerks in the Bureau of History Division of Disasters, as they would have had to file more than a few forms to record the shutdown of basic civilization). Elected officials were frozen, and the populace panicked. Khronous developed new archiving software, discovered a new source of material for memory storage, and implemented paperwork reduction procedures, saving the day. During the overhaul, Khronous unearthed Dore's report, along with a copy of the virus. Intrigued by what the virus meant, Khronous kept a copy for his own research. Although he wasn't able to delve into the virus during his mortal life, Khronous created an avatar to investigate it after reaching Immortality. Not finding it worth the effort to expend any considerable amount of energy, the virus was not unravelled for some time. As it turned out, this was fortunate, because Khronous completed analyzing the program just as he became Full Hierarch, and noticed a few problems in the timestream. Verthandi, Full Hierarch prior to Khronous, and a member of the Council of Intrusion, overheard while in a mortal identity, quite by accident, three Thyatian nobles discussing the Nithian Empire. While that was not in and of itself unusual, the location of the palaver was: Surra-Man-Raa. The Bead of Oblivion, buried beneath the sands, should have prevented the nobles from being more than vaguely aware of the great empire's former existence, but the men were speaking of such things that they should not have known. Verthandi informed Khronous of the occurrence, but decided to delay telling the other Hierarch's. Khronous agreed with this counsel, and the two of them began spying on the nobles, and were shocked to find that they had disappeared from the present day via a "spell" that neither Immortal knew; this spell was, of course, the Oard mirror. Greatly alarmed, the Temporal Duo began sojourning eras and ages to find the fugitive nobles. In one of these expeditions, around 600 AC, Verthandi vanished without a trace, and Khronous took over as Full Hierarch of Time. In the intervening years, Khronous, through careful observation and extreme thought, discovered what the nobles were (Oard, of course), and what their plan is. Recognizing them as a threat at least as powerful as the draeden, burrowers, Outer Beings, or the Mystara line being cancelled, Khronous began organizing the counter-offensive. Membership Khronous Description: The head of the Blade of Cycles, containing the Oard menace has taken up a great deal of his tenure as an Immortal, and caused unbelievable amounts of stress; a lesser being would have cracked under the pressure by now. The fact that he must appear normal, ie, calm and collected, so as not to arouse any suspicion from the other Immortals places him under even more stress. The lesser members believe that this stress is why Khronous allowed Thanatos in the Blade, but, in deference to his power, knowledge, and ability, there haven't been any open dissensions. Role in the Blade: Khronous is the head of the Blade, and as the Full Hierarch of all but one of the members, he wields considerable authority over the group. Khronous is, however, a deliberate and democratic Immortal, not given to autocratic displays of power at all. He will always seek input and suggestions from the group; Khronous recognizes that it is only through a unified wall of force can the Oard invasion be withstood. As the Blade's head, Khronous does wield ultimate veto power over any action, and approves, or not, new members. Goals for the Blade: Khronous believes that if the Oard menace were known to the rest of the Immortal community, he would not be able to prevent them from moving forward with a full frontal assault on OardTime, and research indicates (to Khronous, at least) that such an attack may actually ensure the Oard dominance (see future chapters for more information on this). Khronous realizes that the Immortals (and their creations) and the Oard are ultimately mutually exclusive, so while he is careful in his methods, they are ruthless. Ordanna Description: Along with Protius, Ordanna was recruited by Khronous at the Blade's founding, after the disappearance of Verthandi. Ordanna was chosen due to her great power and age, and her extensive knowledge of history, as well as plenty of followers for use in anti-Oard plots. Khronous also brought her in for another purpose: although normally an Immortal of preservation, there is nothing as far removed from her philosophy of Natural Life than the Oard. Once she saw what the Oard are up to, her anger swelled, and it hasn't gone down since. Her assistance will also be used once the Oard are defeated, to prevent other Immortals from supplanting Oard to the Hollow World. Role in the Blade: Ordanna, like all of the Time Immortal members, extensively scans the timestream and compares various histories, both for Oard plots, and in an attempt to find the Oard home time. Ordanna's massive following is often used to counter Oard interference; as a result, elves are often (unknowingly) cannon fodder in a war they would have difficulty understanding. Ordanna also provides valuable reconnaissance in the Hollow World. Goals for the Blade: Ordanna wholly and unrestrictedly despises the Oard, and is one of the most active proponents for an aggressive assault on the OardTime, when it is found. Although she would be more confrontational than Khronous, for now she is content to follow his lead. Protius Description: Like in most things, Protius seems to be somewhat disinterested in the Oard intrusion. What some make take for complacence, is actually the cover for a complex, inhuman mind. Along with Ordanna, Protius has a very long history, and has seen much happen over the ages. His chaotic nature is readily apparent though, and he is something of a wildcard in the Blade. Role in the Blade: Most Oard plots seem to occur on land, but that may just mean that their Undersea actions are extremely covert. Protius keeps a careful eye on events beneath the waters, and offers his considerable following to the cause: often extremely useful, as Protius' followers are both varied and many. Goals for the Blade: Protius' interest lies solely in the sea; he acts against the Oard so that the oceans will be safe for eons to come. Since he has a relative lack of interest in the campaign, he tends not to come up with many actions, but is a dutiful agent. Thanatos Description: The manifestation of death and destruction, universally reviled as the Source of Evil, its only true goal the complete end of all life, including its own, not even a member of the Sphere of Time: what could Thanatos possibly have to offer the Blad of Cycles? Is Khronous crazy? Yes, crazy like a fox. After all of the other members had joined, Khronous realized there was a problem: the quest for Time encourages Time Immortals to be creators and shapers, not ravagers. Although they possess more knowledge of time and its lessons than any other Sphere, Time lacked the practical knowledge to completely eradicate civilizations. They could try on their own, but there was too much at stake. Then Khronous had an epiphany: who better to wipe a race off the face of the timestream, such that they would never had existed? Thanatos. Although the other members were apprehensive at first, they came to accept the necessity of the situation. For its part, Thanatos readily accepted: the Oard, perhaps the most orderly and lawful race to ever populate any multiverse, were anathema to Entropy, and Thanatos can't very well end reality if its dead, now can it? Furthermore, Thanatos has found some other benefits from its new association (see below). Role in the Blade: Thanatos' minions count among their number the most twisted, diabolical, and vile creatures in existence, wielding unholy magic and blasphemous powers: perfect for a war. As an Entropic Immortal, Thanatos also provides a very nice scapegoat for any activities that draw the attention of the Immortal community. Most importantly, however, is Thanatos' planning: recognizing the importance, it is crafting its most vicious scheme ever. Goals for the Blade: Thanatos wants the Oard eliminated, but it naturally has a few ulterior motives as well. The most obvious is that Thanatos now has (however reluctant they are) actually allies from another Sphere. Just as Time has gained some Entropic knowledge, so too has Thanatos gained important information on Time, which it will most certainly use to its advantage in the future. Thanatos also uses the activities of the Blade to help further its own ends, such as in the Nightwail/rage/storm series (see below). However, Thanatos is plotting against Khronous, widely acknowledged as the most intelligent, knowledgeable, and perhaps powerful (remember, he is closest to becoming an Old One) Immortal: just as Thanatos seeks its own ends, so too does Khronous oppose it; given their respective talents, this combat is extremely subtle and no one else is quite aware of this contest. Yav Description: Khronous recruited Yav to use his and his followers prophetic ability. Yav accepted the mission, but not without some reservation. Secretly, he believes that they may be tempting fate, and engaging on a course of greater destruction than the other Immortals realize. Yav feels that perhaps OardTime is meant to be, that the current multiversal cycle is coming to a close, and that it is destiny for Oard supremacy. He follows his orders though, and keeps his reservations to himself. Role in the Blade: Yav and the Yavdlom serve primarily as an early-warning system, identifying possible sources of Oard intrusion and attempting to locate where the Oard home time is. Yav has created a symbol for the Oard, a metal mask, of an almost human face, and the Yavdlom's prophets report any and all visions of this symbol. Goals for the Blade: Yav joined because he was told to, but is increasingly uneasy with the whole concept of the Blade of Cycles: involving himself in the wars of the timestream violates his personal beliefs of what he should be doing, and is non-interventionist by nature. Although reluctant, Yav will do what he is told to, for now. Activities The Blade has three goals: 1) Seek out Oard Interference 2) Eliminate Oard presence in the current timestream 3) Locate and destroy the Oard home time The goals are listed in the order of how well they have been accomplished, which is, sadly, very little. Although the Blade has been successful in fending off enough assaults to prevent the destruction of reality as they know it, they cannot help but feel as though the Immortals are slowly losing the war. This sense of failure only propels them further in their determination, however, and if they lose, it will be an epic fight. An Example Mission Code Named: Nightscream On Denagoth's northern border, Oard machinations had reached critical mass: the Ascendancy would be guaranteed if the plot were successful. Even though the Blade knew that direct intervention would only exacerbate the problem, they decided that they needed to respond with their followers with such force (involving loaned artifacts) and speed that the other Immortals would certainly notice and begin to investigate. The other Immortals needed to be removed from the scene for the duration of the siege, which could easily last several months. Normally, this would be unthinkable, but the combined mental might of Khronous and Thanatos came up with a plan... Ordanna announced in Pandius that it appeared as though a group of Carnivex mages had developed chronomancy, and were preparing to leave their time before they would be imprisoned. Greatly alarmed, all of the Immortals interested in Mystara, aside from Asterius, left with Ordanna to stop the outbreak; no Immortal noticed that Khronous and Thanatos seemed rather stiff and mechanical. They were actually avatars of the two Immortals; Khronous stole the other Immortals time markers and gave them to Thanatos, who hid them in the Temple of the Eight Sweet Winds. While the Immortal community was gone from Mystara, Khronous oversaw the destruction of the Oard plot in northern Denagoth. Meanwhile, Thanatos had plans of its own, and instigated the events as detailed in the Nightwail/rage/storm series; although not sanctioned by the Blade of Cycles, Thanatos was kept in the Blade, as the others recognized that such side-line actions would be inevitable, and the Blood Brethren were foiled in any event (unknown to Thanatos and Asterius, Khronous weakened the vampire sheath to allow Asterius to contact a group of adventurers, and prevent the corruption of both the Hollow and the Outer World). By prior arrangement, Thanatos took the fall for the stolen markers, and lost its position as Full Hierarch of Entropy; Khronous had assured Thanatos that it would soon be back on top, and as Wrath of the Immortals proved, Khronous was correct. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:10:31 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara In a message dated 4/14/99 11:41:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: << If I might ask, what timeline? >> In basically Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Dawn of the Emperors they have timelines but just one thing, in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic it says that Alphatia was founded in 400 AC, but Karameikos and DotE says 1,000 BC, which one is right. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:11:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara > In basically Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Dawn of the Emperors they > have timelines but just one thing, in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic it says that > Alphatia was founded in 400 AC, but Karameikos and DotE says 1,000 BC, which > one is right. Alphatians came to Mystara in 1000 BC (0 AY), but de facto the empire was founded in the Old Alphatia, in -n AY. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:22:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara On Thu, 15 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > have timelines but just one thing, in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic it says that > Alphatia was founded in 400 AC, but Karameikos and DotE says 1,000 BC, which > one is right. Alphatia is 2000 years old as of 1000AC. Anything else is completely wrong. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:06:39 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara >> In basically Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Dawn of the Emperors they >> have timelines but just one thing, in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic it says >>that >> Alphatia was founded in 400 AC, but Karameikos and DotE says 1,000 BC, >>which >> one is right. G:KoM doesn't say that Alphatia was "founded" in 400 AC. It only says that 400 AC is the year when the Flaem (latecomers to Mystara) learned that the Alphatians had beaten them to the KW. So Alphatia was "found" -- i.e. discovered by the Glantrians -- that year, not "founded" (created). I hate how the English language makes things so difficult.... :-( *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:12:06 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects On Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:54:29 +0100 (I'm late, I know..), "Jacob Skytte" wrote: <> Hi Jacob! I did a similar thing last year when I compiled the complete list of Mystaran Wizards. It basically features all M-Us of Mystara, their name, title, level and race, location and alignment as per 1000 AC. If you feel it could help you, feel free to peruse it: it's the most complete one ever done. You can find it in my site at this URL: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mages.html PS: where the heck did u find Scythus Jacobus..? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:35:20 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Forza Italia Andrea Ungaro" wrote: > OK. Please, for "par condicio" (equal conditions) don't use the acronym PC > (player character) or someone might say it means Partito Comunista > (Communist Party) ;-) > :-DDDDD - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #173 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 16 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 174 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - Dungeons & Dragons Movie [MYSTARA] - RE Politica Tempora part III [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1012)] [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatia Timeine (AC 1013)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:07:29 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram > > > I noticed the same thing myself. I imagine it's just a matter of liking the > > > name, and reusing it later on (if you notice, Bruce wrote GAZ3 and M1). He > > > does the same thing in other places, notably the use of Cucurbita Pepo, a > > > druid, in module CM7: Tree of Life, and in the Voyage of the Princess Ark > > > (in Robrenn). > > > > Actually I thought that Cucurbita Pepo was supposed to be the same > > character in CM7 and VotPA. After all Robrenn isn't that far from the > > Sylvan Realm. > > The problem was that he joins the party in Alfheim, before they get to > the Sylvan Realm. Oh, right. Could he have wandered to Robrenn afterwards? I don't remember what role Cucurbita had in VotPA. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:09:42 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Dragons of Mystara v. 2.0 > The original blue book! The Basic set by Gary Gygax!!! Naked harpies, bronze > dragons, and a tower destroyed by green fire. Who could ask for more? > > > > > What's the original blue book ? Expert? There're no bronze dragons in > > Expert... Oh, WOW ...!!! Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:43:28 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > Nah, I disagree. I think it is important for Alphatians to make a distinction > between fighter and spellcaster. The way I see it, Alphatians reluctantly > admit paladins as aristocracy, but are relieved that they don't have to go any > further with it. I could go along with (and have) a rare paladin or avenger > making it to king, but not as a general rule. We do have at least 2 mainland > kings who are clerics though...so that much is not really debatable from the > DotE's standpoint. Assumption: There must be clerics in the Grand Council as they can definitely reach the ultimate level of experience. This is undisputable. And now imagine: A group of MGCs, mostly clerics or mages who like clerics start an campaign to introduce an avenger or a paladin. The procedure I have introduced in my article about the Grand Council resemble to the world-famous hearings of the US senate. The candidate must answer question, more questions and even more question. After that he has to answer questions, and so on, and so on. And now such a despised fighter answers a question what he would do against a "real" member of the Grand Council that he is of course able to kill them in ore or two rounds of battle. This is a fact some of the proud MGCs cannot stand, and they challenge him. He KILLS each challenger in one or two rounds, and afterwards he RAISES all of them. Is it so astonishing that they accepted him afterwards? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:47:24 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - GAZ3, M1 and Halzunthram > > I noticed the same thing myself. I imagine it's just a matter of liking the > > name, and reusing it later on (if you notice, Bruce wrote GAZ3 and M1). He > > does the same thing in other places, notably the use of Cucurbita Pepo, a > > druid, in module CM7: Tree of Life, and in the Voyage of the Princess Ark > > (in Robrenn). > > Actually I thought that Cucurbita Pepo was supposed to be the same > character in CM7 and VotPA. After all Robrenn isn't that far from the > Sylvan Realm. Well, only a few thousand miles... That does not pose a too big problem as druids are master of quick travels. (BTW, has Cucurbita Pepo already reached level 12?) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:53:13 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > Ok, let's say that about 1/2 of the clerics felt that they should do > something about it. Each of them can pray for 9 (?) Cure Disease > spells per day. Gee, there'd have to be 1 cleric per ca. 10 people. > If there's 10.000 people you need 1.000 clerics for one day, right. > And if there's 100.000 people, that makes 10.000 clerics. And the > disease is spreading. It's a plague! The sanitary conditions in > Thyatis City are immensely inadequate (there're like 600.000 people > (?) in the city)! The plague will spread throughout the city as > quickly as it possilby can. And the clerics themselves will contract > the plague if they're in contact with it; meaning that they'd have to > reserve cures for themselves. The only reasonable way to quell it > would be to eliminate the source; that is the grain. But how does > Cure Disease affect grain? And what about the people that are dying > while the clerics are curing the grain? I think that the people would > want the clerics to cure them and not the grain. And I'm assuming > that the clerics actually know that the disease comes from the grain, > which I'm not so sure is correct. And if they don't eliminate the > source the plague will just be reintroduced whenever bread is > distributed to the general populace. I hardly think taht the clerics > were able to quell the plague; even if there were say 500 36th-level > clerics working on it. Well spoken! But I thought about "Wishes". And don't argue with the wisdom. There should be enough level 36 spellcaster with enough INT/WIS to raise the other, and don't forget, that it was a really big threat for the country. The spellcaster themselves were endangered too, but they seem to have locked themselves in their castles, towers and houses. Jamuga Khan "With 'Best Wishes' from the Thyatian clerics and wizards." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > him. He KILLS each challenger in one or two rounds, and afterwards > he RAISES all of them. Bah. A good mage (36th level) can dispatch any fighter. Creative use of the contingency spell. I personally don't want any non-MU's in my campaign's Grand council. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:42:25 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dungeons & Dragons Movie Found this in my issue of Cinescape, then checked their web site... I don't know if anyone heard about this before or not... This was on the website at http://www.cinescape.com/ <> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:29:27 -0600 From: jtcalvin@us.ibm.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE Politica Tempora part III Hey, this was great! But where are the first two parts. I've scanned back in the digest and can't seem to find them. Is there a site I could find this on or can you e-mail the rest of it to me? e-mail at chimpman@geocities.com Thanks in advance! Keep this stuff coming. John Calvin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:14:58 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1012)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1012) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:20:55 -0400 Spring, AC 1012: The town of Ybod declares independence from the kingdom of Frisland. Claiming that his town has been neglected for too long, the mayor proclaims himself lord over the City-State of Ybod. He sends personal messengers to Stonewall, Qeodhar, Helskir, and Ostland in order to gain official recognition and military support. Over the ensuing weeks, many Frislander towns follow suit, declaring independence for themselves as speculation spreads concerning the king's failing health. In Skyreach, Floating Ar, the Grand Council members from Randel convene an emergency meeting. In it, they angrily berate the other members for bickering amongst themselves and ignoring the pleas from Alphatians living in overseas possessions. Reading off a list of recent political problems, every member present is made aware as to how perilously close Alphatia is to breaking up. Eadrin's queen has been deposed, and the Bellissarian kingdoms seem to be going their own way, as is Qeodhar. Thothia is showing no respect towards the Imperium, as it advances upon its neighbours in an apparent effort to become a regional hegemon. Heldannic gains in Norwold are also reducing much of the empire's territory. Some of the wizards present question the audacity of the Randelian representatives, but they are shouted down as incompetents unworthy of rulership. The representatives from Randel storm from the building, saying that, one way or another, order will be restored. Qeodharian warships sail into the port of Widzif, Frisland, much to the surprise of the locals. Before any resistance can be organized, the ships disgorge their troops, and the town is quickly overrun. Some skirmishes take place in the southern edges of town, but within a day Widzif is firmly under the control of Norlan's forces. Having established a secure landing point, more Qeodharian troops arrive over the next few days. In Shiell, Edjer, king of Frisland, dies in his sleep, after having suffered from a mysterious illness for several weeks. There are no direct successors to the throne, and many members of the court begin to raise questions as to what this bodes for Frisland's future. Just as this news begins to spread, information concerning the loss of Widzif to Qeodhar reaches the capital. Military leaders are at a loss as to what should be done. With pro-independence sentiments spreading among the coastal communities to the west, and continuing agitation from the Sons of Argonath all over the kingdom, the times are grim, indeed. The Vanguard Council of the newly-formed Republic of Alerin is dismayed to receive news that several settlements bordering Theranderol have apparently been annexed by that nation. The towns of Deipan and Ecem, both important manufacturing centres for the coastal nation, are rumoured to house over 5,000 troops from Theranderol. The council orders a general mobilization of all available soldiers to meet this threat, as well as the creation of "peasant brigades" to maintain order within the heartland of Alerin. On the Isle of Dawn, Thothian forces manage to punch a hole in Trikelios' defences, providing them with an opportunity to storm the city. As hundreds of soldiers pour through the breach, cityfolk frantically stampede to the docks, in the hopes of securing passage to a safe haven. Those ships that are present are soon filled to overflowing, as the din of battle grows steadily louder. Even as the ships head out to sea, the ordeal is not over; five Thothian warships round a peninsula to the east, heading towards the city. Mages on board the Trikelian ships use their spells to good effect, managing to sink one of the Thothian ships while buying enough time to allow them to escape. Those who are left behind are not so fortunate - sandwiched between advancing Thothians from the landward side of the city, and disembarking soldiers at the docks, the remaining defenders are overwhelmed within an hour. Summer, AC 1012: In Esterhold, the citizens of Anchorage are shocked to see a thick black line appear over the southern horizon one morning. Within an hour, the thundering hooves of thousands of horses is clearly audible, accompanied by the faint shouts of their riders. Knowing this to be a large host of Jennite warriors, clearly on the warpath, the residents of the town flee to the port, and crowd themselves onto any ships sitting in the harbour. Some become so overloaded that they capsize, while others sit dangerously low in the water. Those wizards who are present in the city cast long-distance spells at the advancing Jennites, and manage to destroy a large number of them, but the best this seems to accomplish is a delaying action - nothing more. They manage to buy enough time to allow all those who are able to flee the town, to do so, though the wizards among the Jennites cast spells of their own, damaging the outer walls in several places. By the second day of the siege, hardly a soul is left within Anchorage's walls, and the wizards cast their last spells to allow themselves to escape, having done their best to hold off the enemy. When the Jennites finally enter the town, they find only a handful of infirm Alphatians, too weak to flee. Not far from the town of Ecem, the forces sent by the Vanguard Council of Alerin meet those from Theranderol. Though highly motivated, the Alerinian forces are much weaker in terms of magic and in numbers, and within one hour of battle lose 70% of their personnel. Routed, they flee southeast, towards the coast. Along the Randel-Alerin border, a large force of Randel soldiers, and a small fleet of eight airships, begins the long trek south... In Limn, residents of the city of Trollhattan are surprised to find a large host of dwarves marching from the east, and a host of humans coming from the south, along the coast. The city's defenders watch in a mixture of contempt and anger as the humans and dwarves begin building siege towers and assembling catapults, while human wizards cast horrible flying phantasms that, while they do not scare the guards, do manage to unnerve the populace. In Haven, Queen Kryndylya orders that all borders with other kingdoms be closed until the current period of unrest has passed. On the Isle of Dawn, Thothian, Dunadaler, and Hillvalian forces clash roughly 100 miles southwest of East Portage. The past couple of months have gone badly for the two remaining Alphatian kingdoms. With the fall of Trikelios, Thothia has been able to bring ever larger numbers of soldiers to the north, knowing that it no longer has any enemies close to home. Over the past few weeks, skirmishes have broken out between the two forces, and, though the northern kingdoms have managed to win more battles than they lost, they have ultimately lost ground. Thothia now controls all former Alphatian territories more than 100 miles southwest of East Portage. Making matters worse are the increasing numbers of undead soldiers being used against the northern kingdoms - many of whom are recognizable as being former defenders of Ekto and Trikelios. Both kingdoms agree to make overtures to Thyatis for aid, knowing they cannot stand long against the Thothians. Fall, AC 1012: The Vanguard Council of Alerin is surprised to receive news that not only has Theranderol been steadily advancing from the west; Randel has begun to advance from the north as well. What remains of Alerin's army has taken flight, and those peasant brigades who challenged the invaders were decimated within seconds. Seeing their dream of a revolutionary state being shattered, the council decides to declare Archport, so close to the battle lines, a point of no return - it must be defended at all costs. Messengers are sent to Dawnrim and Notrion, begging for aid. The residents of Ybod are surprised to see the unmistakable square sails of Ostlander longships appear to the west. Thinking that his pleas for support and recognition have not been in vain, the mayor goes to the docks to await the newcomers. In a few hours, the ships pull into port, and several dozen warriors from Ostland disembark. Their leader, a jarl named Audun, proclaims Ybod to be under the protection of Ostland, and the first of its overseas possessions. He also says that the town is to be renamed Řstfjord. The mayor begins to protest, but before he can say much Audun loudly denounces him to be a coward, and challenges him to one-on-one combat if he wishes to retain rulership of the town. The mayor quietly declines. Qeodharian officials meet with Audun, jarl of Řstfjord, to discuss mutual interests concerning northwestern Frisland. Audun is impressed by Norlan's representatives, who are themselves warriors of considerable repute. The two nations come to an agreement over the border that they will share between their new possessions, and they clarify their ambitions in the kingdom. Audun makes it clear that Ostland has claimed the entire western coast of Frisland for its own; more ships are already on the way to annex them. In turn, Qeodhar indicates that it wishes to control the northern coast of Frisland. In western Alerin, north of Archport, Theranderolian troops are surprised to encounter soldiers from Arogansa. A quick discussion between the generals ensues, and it is made apparent that Arogansa has long had designs on the rich lands of western Eadrin, with their bountiful vinyards. Now that civil order is apparently absent, and central control is all but nonexistent, the time was deemed ripe to invade, as the kingdom must look after its own interests. The Theranderolian general disagrees, saying that his troops arrived first, and though Arogansa certainly has a legitimate claim, Theranderol will decide what may be conquered. Although dissatisfied at the exchange, both generals agree to co-operate for now, and divide their gains in the future. In Limn, the capital city of Trollhattan continues to struggle in the face of a tough siege. Dwarvish and human forces have foiled several attempts to break it, and twice they have almost broken into the city. While the city's wizards pour magic on the attackers, dwarven engineers busily dig tunnels under the walls, trying to undermine them in places. All the while, boulders, fireballs, and lightning bolts rain down upon the buildings and the populace. In a lightning raid, the Sons of Argonath surprise the defenders of Ydroyas, and overwhelm them. Expecting a rag-tag band of guerrillas, the citizens are surprised to find a disciplined force of 900 men march into town, under the forgotten flag of Argonath. The Sons spent the intervening time building up their strength and drilling hard, though speculation soon becomes rife that the group is receiving support from an outside power. West of Qeodhar, Littonian warships clash with Qeodharian vessels. Word of the attacks against foreign fishing vessels near Qeodharian waters has reached Littonia, and King Uldis VI has decided to take action. The initial battles are inconclusive, but many lives are lost on both sides. As Thothian forces draw near East Portage, slowly whittling away the defenders ranged against them, a meeting takes place in Newkirk between the rulers of Dunadale, Hillvale, and Westrourke. The Alphatian rulers state their case, providing information on Thothian actions taken since AC 1009, and requesting aid in stemming the invasion that is taking place. A decision is quickly reached between the three to make the defeat of Thothia their common cause. Winter, AC 1012: In Rock Harbour, Esterhold, the town guards are surprised to see a small group of Alphatian farmers camped in front of the main gate. They demand to be let inside, saying that large groups of Jennites are encroaching from the highlands, driving all settlers before them. As the faint sound of thundering hooves echo from the north, the farmers begin to panic, begging the guards to open the gate. Realizing the danger of the situation, the guards refuse, and sound a general alarm. Ships are dispatched to Port Marlin, and Notrion, requesting troops to hold back the impending assault. Theranderolian troops scouting eastward come across the ruins of the Alerinian town of Idongor. Nearby, several charred bodies, wearing the uniforms of the Randel army, lie near. Before long, the main host of the army of Randel marches into view. Quickly, the two forces confer, and it soon becomes clear that an expeditionary force from Randel came through the area a few days before, and fought with the defenders of Idongor, resulting in the town's destruction. The Randelian general tells the Theranderolians that Randel is on a mission of mercy, putting down Alerinian revolutionaries and seeking out an heir to the throne of Eadrin who still lives. The entire eastern half of the nation has been secured, and a provisional government has been installed in that region. Both forces soon agree to put aside whatever differences they may have, and concentrate on destroying the last remnants of Alerin. With a cry of glee, dwarvish engineers manage to undermine a large section of Trollhattan's walls. With moments, thousands of troops from Stonewall and Stoutfellow storm over the debris, slaughtering every humanoid they can find. Wizards and clerics among the allies also lend their talents to the effort, raining magical death upon the populace. If this were not bad enough, large gnomish flying machines swoop in low from the surrounding hills, dropping boulders and flaming oil on the city. Although the defenders manage to rally in certain regions of the city, it is too little, too late. The combined effects of the six-month siege, and the almost constant bombardment, have destroyed the resolve of the inhabitants. After three days of hard fighting, and wading ankle-deep through blood and carrion, the humans, gnomes, and dwarves are victorious - Trollhattan has fallen, and its king, Drushiye, has fled. Only 575 inhabitants remain alive, these being humans, and a handful of elves. In northern Frisland, the port of Mafertat is surrounded by a large host of warriors, some bearing the banners of Ydroyas. Under a flag of truce, the leader of this group approaches the town's walls, and states that the time has come for all people of Frisland, "Alphatian and Argonathian", to renounce their ties to the old empire, and build their society anew. He says that if the town surrenders peacefully, no violence will be inflicted on the population. Seeing the battle-readiness of the newcomers, and the relatively poor shape of his own troops, the mayor of Mafertat agrees. By nightfall, the flag of Argonath flies over Mafertat. Around the Qeodhar-held port of Witival, Qeodharian troops fan out into the countryside, annexing additional territory, particularly towards the east. Along the Randel-Bettellyn border, a division of Bettellyn battle-mages unleashes their magical might on the Randel forces opposite the border, near Dmireton, on the order of their commander. Caught by surprise, the nearest Randel forces are decimated, and the troops led by the Bettellynian commander surge southwards. By magical means, news of this attack reaches Rardish in moments, and King Verothrics angrily asks Queen Llynara of Bettellyn why her forces have attacked his nation. She is perplexed, saying that she has no knowledge of the attack. Disgusted, Verothrics breaks contact. In fact, this attack was orchestrated by a small group of disaffected Bettellynian generals, who wish to see their kingdom become dominant now that central authority is effectively gone. News of the destruction of Trollhattan, the Bettellynian attack on Randel, the uprising in Frisland, the continuing isolation of Shiye Lawr, and the Jennite invasion of Esterhold finally reaches the Grand Council in Skyreach. After quick deliberation, they resolve to issue orders to all kings of the various Alphatian nations to submit to their authority, so that order may be restored. Their proclamation is received by all surviving Alphatian kings living in Greater Alphatia, and is soundly rejected by the kings of Randel, Stoutfellow, Stonewall, Haven, and Theranderol. Randel's reply is succinct: "Your effectiveness as leaders of the empire is questionable; we will restore order in our own way, and we are doing so regardless of whether you permit it or not. Join us, or stand aside, but the greater good of Alphatia must prevail over all, including your bureaucratic dithering." Incensed, the Grand Council members declare Randel to be a rogue state, and issues an arrest warrant for Verothrics. The city of East Portage finally faces the encroaching Thothian forces in Kaldmont this year. Having fought the southern kingdom's forces on several occasions since the fall of Trikelios, the defenders of the port city are by no means raw recruits. Despite their smaller number, they are able to hold their ground, and, bolstered by Dunadaler skirmishers, manage to inflict casualties upon the attackers. Even so, the Thothians slowly push their way towards the western gate of the city, and, just when it appears the defenders are about to break, loud explosions are heard - near the Thothian rear guard! Suddenly, several large shadows appear overhead, and just as quickly vanish to the east, while on the ground the invaders try to regain their composure. Just as the Thothians regain control of the situation, the mysterious attackers appear again, and once more loud explosions and gouts of fire erupt amongst the Thothians. Realizing that their Thyatian allies have joined the fight, the beleaguered defenders fight with renewed vigour, managing before the day's end to drive away their foes. The village of Piwelta, in eastern Aeria, is assaulted by a host of Thothian soldiers, who quickly overrun the village and assume control. King Dormin of Aeria, upon hearing of the assault, issues a plea to Aegos and Gaity to lend their assistance in repelling the invaders. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:14:02 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatia Timeine (AC 1013)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatia Timeine (AC 1013) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:22:10 -0400 Spring, AC 1013: Ships from Notrion, bearing soldiers to aid the beleaguered defenders of Rock Harbour, come across a grisly spectacle. It seems they are too late; the town is still smoking from the fires set within its walls, and the smell of rotting flesh is prevalent. A squad of soldiers enters the town, and within moments comes running out, saying that the populace has been butchered. Shocked, the Notrion commander enters the ruined town himself, and discovers it to be full of rotting corpses, many wearing the blood-spattered uniforms of Alphatian soldiers. Although many Jennite corpses are in evidence, most of the dead appear to be civilians. A large number of them have been nailed to the walls of various buildings, and, judging by their expressions, while they were still alive. Horrified, he orders his men to return to their ships, and head home. The Vanguard Council of Alerin holds an emergency meeting in the cellars beneath what was once the queen's palace. Judging by reports from what remains of their intelligence network, almost all of the nation has fallen to the combined forces of Randel, Theranderol, and Arogansa. Only the capital city of Archport holds out, and even then only by the smallest of margins. The city has been under siege for two weeks, and the battle mages of the three kingdoms have unleashed a deadly torrent of lethal magic on the city's defences. Formidable as they are, the walls have begun to melt in certain places, and the citizens have suffered high casualty rates. The Frislander port town of Azafez is attacked by a large force of Ostlander longships. Although the defenders fight bravely, they are ultimately overwhelmed when the more powerful spellcasters among them are felled by cruelly-thrown axes and spears. The jarl leading this group of Ostlanders, named Hodar, renames the town Lodgaard. Within days he learns of the existence of Řstfjord, and of its ruler, Audun. He sends a representative to him, both to declare his presence in the area, and to reassure him that he has no designs on the other town, being concerned mainly with expanding in the immediate area. In the foothills of the western Kerothar Mountains, a large force of dwarves returning home to Denwarf-Hurgon come across a ragged group of goblins, apparently refugees from Trollhattan who somehow escaped the notice of the besiegers. The dwarves fall upon them immediately, and exterminate every last one of them. In Shiell, Frisland, while local nobles continue their year-old argument about who should take the throne, a general alarm is sounded. Within moments, an exhausted guard runs into the throne room, telling all the nobles present that a great force of monsters has crossed the Rainbow River into Frisland, and already they are laying waste to the countryside. Some nobles immediately teleport to their retreats, not wishing to risk their lives in putting down the menace, while others go to Shiell's immense battlements to see the situation for themselves. The entire southern horizon seems to be engulfed in a black tide of writhing forms and shambling monsters, accompanied by large numbers of humanoids and human soldiers. Elsewhere in Frisland, Qeodharian forces based in Widzif have gained control of all lands south of the port town to the border with Řstfjord and the northernmost spur of the Kerothar Mountains, and east to the Yaniv River, near Ydroyas. Forces stationed near Ydroyas are heavily-armed, and preparations are made to build a small fortress on a hill overlooking the town across the river. In Shiye Lawr, a similar force crosses the Elfripple River from Blackheart, but before it even penetrates more than three miles into the forest, it suffers ferocious attacks from all sides. Within minutes, hundreds of invaders lie dead on the forest floor. Realizing that they must flee, the Blackhearters try to retreat in an orderly fashion, but it soon becomes a rout as lightning bolts incinerate large numbers of humanoids, and treants seem to just appear out of the trees and crush all they see. By the time the Elfripple River comes into view once more, only one-fifth of the original invasion force remains. On the Isle of Dawn, the Thothians' fortunes have finally changed; for once, they are on the defensive. Several Thothian encampments in southern Hillvale come under attack in the early months of this year, as Thyatian, Dunadaler, and Hillvalian troops press their advantage and liberate more territory. By the end of Thaumont, almost all of southern Hillvale is free once more, and defensive positions are established along the former frontier with Ekto. Further advances are blocked by the Thothians, who maintain their grip on Ekto and Trikelios, and the surrounding region. Advances in Aeria continue; the eastern third of the island is now firmly under Thothian control, though these lands were not won without a fight. Local resistance, though largely ineffectual, has been persistent, which has slowed the Thothian advance considerably. Troops that could be used in the planned assault on Featherfall are instead needed to ferret out guerrillas, as well as maintain the peace among the restive population. This has bought the defenders extra time to prepare themselves. In western Aeria, a force of 300 soldiers from Aegos draws ashore to aid its ally, and 200 warriors from Gaity land south of Featherfall to lend their aid. Summer, AC 1013: The town of Witival, in central Frisland, awakes to find itself surrounded one summer's morning by a force of over two thousand soldiers. Their leader comes forth, and requests that the town submit to the authority of Caradon Maras, leader of the Sons of Argonath, so that they might be protected against the growing anarchy in the region. Realizing that, although she could resist the invaders, it would impose undue hardships on the people, the mayor of Witival agrees to submit to the Sons, but on the condition that all soldiers enter the town unarmed. The army's leader ponders this, but reluctantly agrees. With a tremendous crash, the northern walls of Archport collapse under the sustained assault of the war-wizards from Randel, Arogansa, and Thernaderol. As soldiers pour into the city, citizens flee to the safety of their homes, while soldiers loyal to the Vanguard Council put up as best a fight as they can. Outnumbering the defenders by more than six to one, the allied invaders manage to take the city with a minimum of casualties. Those members of the Vanguard Council who are captured are put on trial for treason against the Alphatian empire, regicide, and for inflicting undue harm on the people of Eadrin. They are quickly found guilty and executed. Bettellyn troops under the command of the rogue generals press deeper into Randelian territory. Dmireton is overrun within three days, as are several surrounding villages. Before they reach the town of Telsadun, they begin to come against concerted resistance on the part of the local forces. Soon, it becomes apparent that not all of Randel's forces were dispatched to Eadrin, as preliminary sources seemed to indicate. In Bettellyn's capital city of Citadel, Queen Llynara issues a formal apology to the King Verothrics of Randel, as she has determined that one of her top generals has gone rogue. She tells her regal counterpart that efforts will be made to bring the errant general to heel, and that he will be disciplined. Verothrics thanks Llynara for the news, but again reiterates his desire to see all Bettellynian troops, loyalist or rebel, removed from Randelian soil as soon as possible. He tells her that, once Randel's business in Eadrin is concluded, it may have to turn its attention northward if the situation is not resolved to its satisfaction. In Esterhold, a great battle takes place roughly halfway along the southern coast, between Port Marlin and the ruins of Rock Harbour. Scouts from Port Marlin, who witnessed the aftermath of Rock Harbour's siege, hurried back home to warn the port's ruler of the danger. In the intervening period, a network of scouts has ridden the hinterlands between the town and the westward-riding Jennites, and had spotted them, roughly 500 miles eastwards. Now, the two forces clash. Although the Jennites outnumber the Port Marliners by four-to-one, the Alphatians have a considerable number of wizards on their side, and these are employed to great effect! While the Alphatian footsoldiers use pikes to keep the mounted Jennites at bay, the wizards rain down fireballs, lightning bolts, and cloudkill spells on the invaders. Within two hours, over 2,000 Jennites lay dead, but more keep on coming. By the end of the day, the Alphatians are forced to carry out a fighting withdrawal, slowly giving ground, but exacting a deadly toll for every foot of ground gained by the Jennites. Soon, the Jennites give up their pursuit, and the surviving Alphatians return to Port Marlin. Although they lost one-third of their forces, or roughly 1,000 men, the strategic use of their wizards, and disciplined tactics, resulted in the deaths of almost 4,500 Jennites. In Skyfyr, Esterhold, news of the steadily nearing Jennite offensive filters down to the street level. In northwestern Esterhold, Blackrock scouts have encountered roving Jennite patrols no more than 200 miles away from the kingdom's southern borders. Ticket prices on passenger vessels heading for the Alphatian mainland double almost overnight as anxiety spreads. Mercifully, the reports of what happened to those Alphatians who could not escape Faraway, Anchorage, and Rock Harbour is kept secret by the authorities. Elsewhere in Esterhold, one mounted horde of Jennites reaches the western coast of the peninsula. As they see the waters of the Sea of Esterhold wash upon the rocky beaches, they let out a ragged cheer. They have successfully pushed westwards through Esterhold. They have also cut off the two remaining Alphatian strongholds from each other, save by ship or magical means. Splitting into two groups, they ride north and south, where they know the enemy lies. In Shiye Lawr, Acroshiye, king of the Alphatian elves, gives a moving speech to his subjects in front of his palace. Describing the audacity of the forces from Blackheart in attacking the elves, and their evil intent, he encourages his soldiers to be brave, to be valiant, and above all to work ceaselessly to purge the region of the evil influences of that foul nation to the north once and for all. He exhorts all present to use whatever means are at their disposal to achieve this, saying that the time is at hand where the deaths of all elves who have suffered at the hands of Blackheart may be avenged. His speech is interrupted by the sudden appearance of an exceedingly ancient elf. Named Beryshiye, she proclaims weakly that she is the last living elf who remembers the lost kingdom of Ilmaryll. In a rasping voice, she describes how, as a child over 1,200 years ago, she saw the maddened flight from Dor-Addon, and the subsequent corruption of the forests she once called her home. With tears in her eyes, she asks those present to remember the lost souls of Ilmaryll, so that when she dies, she may at least do so with the knowledge that her kingdom has not been left unavenged. Exhausted by her efforts, she collapses, but her words have not gone unheard. The siege of Shiell, in Frisland, begins to go badly for the defenders. Though those wizards who remain lay waste to large numbers of monstrous invaders, but more continually come north from the Ugly Wood. Messages are sent to Skyreach, urgently requesting aid to break the siege, but the response is not encouraging. Authorities in Floating Ar are facing the same problems as in Ambur - many peasants are leaving for Foresthome and other, more southerly, kingdoms in search of a better life. As a result, not as much work is being done in the kingdom, and Floating Ar is suffering. This, the fact that the front in Esterhold appears to be collapsing, continued Thyatian and Heldannic incursions in Norwold and the Isle of Dawn, and the continuing conflicts between Randel and Bettellyn, make it impossible for Skyreach to send aid at this time. The Gaitian expeditionary force encounters the advancing Thothians approximately 40 miles south of Featherfall, and, seeing the size of the invading force (roughly 1,000 men and 1,500 undead), quickly orders a retreat. Fall, AC 1013: Ten thousand elvish warriors cross the Elfripple River northwards, into Blackheart. Within hours, the advancing host comes across the town of Jondor, which, after putting up some resistance, is overwhelmed by magical superiority and razed. None of the monstrous inhabitants are spared, and the handful of humans living there are driven north. Planting his banner in the centre of the smoking ruins, king Arcoshiye proclaims the land to be cleansed of Blackheart's evil. The Frislander town of Gowola is conquered by Qeodharian marines, after a brief skirmish outside the town walls. Although Gowola's defences are quite adequate for repelling bandits, they are not sufficient to hold off the seasoned troops invading it. Once order is restored, and a new governor is appointed to quell domestic unrest, several hundred soldiers fan out into the surrounding countryside, especially eastwards - towards the Fris River. The small fishing village of Bridock, which lies 100 miles north of Port Marlin, on the western coast of Esterhold, is surrounded by a southward-moving Jennite host before dawn. The terrified villagers are forced from their homes, and tied up. They are then forced to watch as their village is burned to the ground. Once the last ashes dim during the late afternoon, one quarter of them are slaughtered. The Jennites then resume their southward march, with the surviving Alphatians, still tied, forced to run to keep pace with the cantering horses. All the while, the Jennites jeer at them in crude Alphatian, and throw garbage at them. In Bettellyn, rogue units come into conflict with those loyal to the queen, and great conflicts erupt near Vonboby and Sabetta. The battle is fierce, and it soon becomes apparent that the rogue soldiers are not without magical resources of their own. Though the loyal forces manage to defeat the rebels, many casualties are suffered on both sides. The occupied region of Dmireton and environs, however, remains firmly under the control of other rogue elements. With a shout of frenzied glee, the invaders from Blackheart manage to overwhelm the outer defences of Shiell, and storm to outer ring of the city. Fortunately, everyone within that part of the city has evacuated to the inner city. After a few days of looting and burning, the horde sets its sights on the inner gate. In the remnants of the kingdom of Vertiloch, some villages bordering the kingdom of Haven petition Queen Kryndylya to annex their lands, so that they might be protected from the dangers stalking the land. Within weeks, Havenite soldiers cross the border into western Vertiloch, and set up camps in the region. Villages in southeastern Vertiloch soon find themselves under the protection of Theranderol, even though they did not request it. The border between the two kingdoms is now the Greenlake River. After months of repeated petitions, King Sildreth II of Greenspur allows his army to close the border with Arogansa, in much the same manner as Haven has already done with the rest of Alphatia. Domestic sentiment is turning away from continued ties with the more traditionalist kingdoms of the empire, as more liberal-minded refugees from the Isle of Dawn share their views with the locals. The relative quiet along the front line in southern Hillvale is broken by a new Thothian offensive. Thousands of undead storm the positions of the allies, in some places overwhelming the defenders. Despite their best efforts, the allies cannot hold off enemies who feel no pain nor show any fear, and some begin to lose heart. Thyatian clerics present among the troops manage to turn some of the weaker undead, but the sheer number of them forces a fighting withdrawal to more defensible positions further north. On the island nation of Aeria, the city of Featherfall comes under siege as the advancing Thothians quickly encircle it. News of Gaity's retreat from Aeria has reached Dormin, who, disheartened, orders his soldiers to defend the city with all their might. He also sends an urgent message to the Aegosian soldiers advancing from the west, to arrive with all due speed. Winter, AC 1013: At Sulmner's Vale, Esterhold, a great battle takes place between the army of the Alphatian kingdom of Blackrock and the northward-moving Jennite horde. Over the course of four days, magical volleys rain death down upon the Jennites, while hundreds of Alphatian soldiers fall to Jennite arrows and spears. Despite their best efforts, though, the Alphatians cannot hold the line, and soon the sheer numbers of the Jennites push them northwards. Using a final deadly barrage of fireballs and lightning bolts, as well as the aid of two skyships, the Alphatians manage to pull back safely. The Jennites, seeing the power of the defenders, decide not to pursue. They hold their position, roughly 60 miles southeast of Skyfyr. The people of Port Marlin brace for the event they know has been coming. Advance scouts return one morning, breathlessly reporting that large Jennite hosts have been spotted to the east, and to the north. Preparations are made for the evacuation of all nonmilitary inhabitants of the town, and the outer walls soon bristle with armed guards. Within a day, the Jennites come within sight of the town, and, letting out a cry of joy, mount a massive charge. Almost immediately, magical defences carefully laid out hours before are triggered, slaying the attackers by the hundreds as great explosions boom around Port Marlin. Even so, the Jennites soon reach the walls, and, under a constant barrage of boiling oil, arrows, and magic spells, proceed to use battering rams to try to break the main gates down. Elsewhere, Jennites equipped with crude ladders try to scale the walls, only to be pushed back by the Alphatians. After one whole day of fighting, Port Marlin's defences still hold, allowing some of the civilians to sail for Notrion. At the ruins of Idongor, Eadrin, representatives from Randel, Theranderol, and Arogansa meet to discuss the fate of this ruined kingdom. Although the last Alerinian forces have long since been destroyed, efforts to locate a legitimate heir to the throne of Eadrin have been unsuccessful. As a result, all three kingdoms have come to the conclusion that Eadrin should be partitioned between them, so that order may be retained, and each kingdom may come out of this a winner. The representative from Randel says that, since her nation bore the brunt of the resistance, and since Randel liberated over half of Eadrin, the share that it currently occupies should go to it. Theranderol agrees, but says that, as an early combatant, it should be granted at least one-third of Eadrin, plus a corridor to the sea and eastern Archport. Arogansa refuses to relinquish any part of Archport or the surrounding area, and it has claims of its own as far as the Randel zone of occupation. The three representatives agree to meet once more in the spring. In embattled Shiell, Frisland, a surge of hope strikes the hearts of all living within the city when guards atop the tallest towers report the advance of a large host to the north. In soon becomes apparent that this is not a reserve force of Frislanders; the banner of Argonath flies at the head of this force. With a loud cheer, the Argonathians charge those humanoids they find outside the city, destroying them utterly. They rapidly gain entrance to the outer ring of the city, and are soon turning the tables against the Blackhearters, who did not expect anyone to be attacking them. Emboldened by the turn of events, many of Shiell's defenders leave the inner city to attack the monstrous invaders as well. Soon, the Blackhearters realize that they are trapped between two forces. They were already running low on supplies - the siege lasting far longer than they expected - and many of the humanoid warriors surrender. The situation soon becomes a rout, in which the fearful army of Blackheart breaks under the pressure. Only a handful escape. During the stunned silence afterwards, Caradon Maras, leader of the Sons of Argonath and general of its army, demands to see the ruler of the city. Soon, he meets with those public officials who remained during the siege, and commends them for their bravery. He also asks that, in recognition for his aid, they recognize him as ruler over the city. Seeing that Caradon and his forces are the sole saviours of Shiell, and that the public is already praising Caradon, most of the wizards and gentry present agree. Caradon then walks into the streets, boldly proclaiming that "the city of Argondor has been reclaimed by the Sons of Argonath. The old kingdom is restored, and Argonath shall stand evermore!" The streets erupt in the cheers of Caradon's men, and of many commoners. In southern Blackheart, fierce resistance slows the elvish advance, but every day several miles are gained. Already, many towns and villages have fallen to the army of the Shiye, and zealous scouts advance deep behind enemy lines to discover the defenders' weaknesses, as well as the location of certain sacred places lost to the elves after the founding of Blackheart. Some go as far as the Rainbow River, and report after returning to their commanders that the northern host of Blackheart's forces has apparently been defeated in Frisland. Taking heart at this, the elves press northwards with more vigour. The fighting retreat in southern Hillvale continues, as the pursuing undead forces of Thothia drive their living enemies before them. While the defenders may be quicker, and sentient, the undead require no rest or food, and this places them at a tremendous advantage. The fact that the animated remains of allied soldiers, who fell during the first counterattack, are also spotted among the invading horde reduces morale even further. As the Thothians tighten their grip on the region surrounding Featherfall, the city's air mages lend their efforts to its defence, casting offensive spells at enemy soldiers, and creating phantasms to deceive their enemies. During one of these fierce battles, the Aegosian soldiers arrive from the west, cutting into Thothian lines where no attack was expected. Despite their efforts, however, the Aegosians are poorly trained, and soon they are forced to retreat due to the greater prowess of the Thothians. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #174 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 16 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 175 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1014)] [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1015)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:16:23 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1014)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1014) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:23:27 -0400 Spring, AC 1014: Caradon Maras, leader of the Sons of Argonath, officially crowns himself king of Argonath, and makes an official declaration to all the people of Frisland, saying that the nation is no longer part of the Alphatian empire, but is a free state. All those who do not support Argonath in its bid for independence are asked to leave the kingdom in peace. Elsewhere, the Frislander towns of Bogotus and Ubdazi pledge loyalty to Caradon. The past few years since northern Alphatia became highly destabilized have gone very badly for many isolated communities in what was once Frisland. Seeing Caradon and his growing army as a source of stability and safety, placing themselves under his rulership is far more preferable to the two towns than fending for themselves. Upon hearing of the developments in Frisland, the Grand Council in Skyreach issues a formal note of congratulations to Caradon Maras, and it also warns him not to stray too far from the empire. As the weeks pass, no response is forthcoming from Caradon, and the wizards order the soldiers of Ambur, Floating Ar, and Foresthome to mobilize against Argonath. It soon becomes apparent how weak the Grand Council's influence has become - only Floating Ar fully mobilizes its troops. Foresthome acknowledged the request weeks after receiving it, and has sent a token force, while Ambur has sent a mere 1,500 men. The remainder are apparently needed to aid in the distribution of food and in the sowing of this year's crop. The dust clouds have finally dissipated in the north, but much work needs to be done to bring Ambur to a level where it can sustain itself once more. Weeks later, the central Frislander town of Okadia, until now a neutral territory, is seized by Council forces. The local militia, seeing the larger force sent by Skyreach, as well as its battle mages, decides to surrender peacefully rather than risk destruction. Near Qeodhar-occupied Gowola, troops continue their march into the countryside to secure more lands along Fris River border with Floating Ar, and south of the town. Initially, no significant resistance is encountered, but before long, reports begin to come in of isolated patrols being attacked by shadowy monsters, and of carnivorous vegetation preying upon them. Over the following weeks, large tracts of forest and pastureland are put to the torch, in an effort to flush out or destroy the creatures thought to inhabit the region. Though many unwholesome beasts are killed, others flee further inland. Unsettled by the experience, the Qeodharians press on. On the northwestern coast of what was once Frisland, the coastal town of Nasta is suddenly attacked by a large host of Ostlanders, marching southwards. Although the defenders are quickly overwhelmed, the defeated are not killed outright. A bold, imposing man, by the name of Eric, assembles all of the townspeople by the coast, and proclaims himself jarl of Nasta, to be renamed Grřnmark. He tells them that, as his subjects, they will have his protection, but all able-bodied men must swear a blood oath of fealty to him, or die. Seeing how these men fought, no one refuses to do as Eric tells them. Elsewhere on the Frislander coast, the port town of Igdor is invaded by a different host of Ostlander raiders. They storm the beaches, killing anyone they see, and rampage towards the town itself. Lacking defensive walls, Igdor falls to the invaders within an hour, and the victorious Ostlanders pillage the town. After a second day of drunken looting, the Ostlanders are brought by their leader, Leif the Bold, into some semblance of order. He orders the surviving town administrators to be brought to him, and when they are dragged to the inn that serves as his hall, he orders them to pledge allegiance to him, or die. Seeing that Leif is serious, they do so. After receiving their oaths of fealty, Leif proclaims to his warriors that the town of Sjřvard, as Igdor will now be known, is theirs, and that he will lead them as jarl. The assembled Ostlanders let out a throaty cheer, and proceed to plunder the taverns for what ale they still contain. The representatives of Arogansa, Theranderol, and Randel meet once again in Idongor to discuss the fate of Eadrin. The representatives of Arogansa and Theranderol still cannot come to an agreement regarding the border between their new territories, and the Arogansan threatens his counterpart with war if he does not relent. The Randelian representative cautions the Arogansan against acting so rashly, and warns the representative from Theranderol that some concessions may have to be made to Randel, as well. Intense bickering ensues, and all three depart, disgusted. On the Isle of Dawn, the retreating allied armies are given a reprieve - in the form of fresh troops from the three nations, as well as a small host of high-level Thyatian clerics. The empire had been receiving regular reports of events on the Isle, and had determined that a cadre of experienced clerics would greatly aid efforts in defeating the Thothians, not to mention reinforcements. Their numbers bolstered, the defenders are better able to hold their ground, and with the aid of the clerics, large numbers of undead are quickly destroyed. Thothian soldiers and clerics present in the invading force decide to retreat, and with them departs the much-reduced undead horde. The allies give pursuit for several days, harrying the Thothians and managing to kill several of their clerics. After losing over half of its defenders to continued Thothian assaults, and suffering considerable damage from the frequent magical barrages of its attackers, Featherfall capitulates. King Dormin, knowing that what aid his allies could give to him was not sufficient to hold off the Thothians, agrees to the invaders' demands in the hopes of saving his people from further bloodshed. Aeria is to surrender unconditionally to Thothia, and accept a Thothian regent - appointed by the Pharaoh himself - as their ruler. King Dormin is to leave Aeria within two days, never to return. Likewise, those who swore an oath of allegiance to Dormin are under a similar obligation, unless they renounce that oath publicly. Disheartened, but at the same time seeing no other option, Dormin issues an order, to be carried throughout the kingdom, for all forces loyal to him to lay down their arms and submit to Thothia's authority. Summer, AC 1014: Troops loyal to the Grand Council in Skyreach attack the Argonathian city of Mafertat, and are met with sound resistance. While a large host of Aran soldiers are tied down trying to take the coastal town, the remainder - composed of Arans, Amburians, and Foresthomers - penetrate deeper into the countryside, in search of towns to attack. In the newly-renamed city of Argondor, King Caradon receives news from spies that not only are forces loyal to the Grand Council invading from the east; elvish forces are steadily advancing northwards. Some rumours brought to the king are to the effect that Shraek itself is under siege. Intrigued by this possibility, he issues a proclamation, ordering half of his forces to meet the apparently scant forces sent from the east, and drive them out. The remainder he charges with the task of "aiding Argonath in restoring its ancient borders, to reclaim those lands south of the Rainbow River that were lost to us so long ago." At his words, loyal followers cry out in joy, and anxious young men and women eagerly enlist in the growing army of Argonath. Many are refused, however, told that they must work to till the soils to ensure that Argonath will survive the coming winter. The matter of increased Ostlander activity along the western coast is also brought to his attention, but he decides to do nothing about it at the moment; far more pressing matters demand his attention. In Blackheart, the streets of the capital city of Shraek bustle with panicking civilians, as word spreads that the armies of Shiye Lawr have been spotted only two miles south of the city. Commoners load up those possessions they can easily take with them into wagons and carts, goaded by the chilling tales told by refugees from southern towns and villages, of how the elves spared only those who could run, and how they razed every settlement they came across. Within minutes, the streets around the northern gate of Shraek becomes clogged with screaming people, fighting to escape. Soon, it becomes apparent that those fevered tales are true, as pillars of smoke become visible around the southern gate, and the sounds of magic battles and screams echo throughout the streets. Despite their frantic efforts, however, the fleeing inhabitants of Shraek cannot leave in time. Soon, a force of over a hundred elves, mounted on warhorses, rounds a corner and charges into the crowd, casting deadly offensive spells at the massed people, and laying about with swords and spears. Before nightfall, the battle is over, and the defenders are vanquished. Only a thousand inhabitants remain within Shraek's walls after the last of the echoes die down, and there are forced, at swordpoint, northwards. As the last elves leave the city, plumes of smoke can be seen rising above the gutted buildings. In Port Marlin, Esterhold, the brave attempts by the defenders to hold off the Jennite assault finally fail. After being under siege for almost six months, and holding off an enemy force more than three times its size, the town guards' morale breaks, realizing that no help is coming, and they cannot win this war of attrition. Repeated blasts of horns signal the guards to abandon their posts, and they quickly form a rear guard as the last of the civilians are escorted to five ships, constructed from shipyard scraps, where they lay waiting in the harbour. The flight is fraught with peril, as Jennites scramble over the walls and rampage throughout the empty streets, trying to surround the fleeing Alphatians. Other Jennites open the gates from within, allowing hundreds of riders to pour into the abandoned town. As the civilians are brought on board, the last of the guards fight a desperate battle to hold off the invaders just long enough to allow the ships to pull up anchor and leave. Although the ships do manage to escape without any problems, the cost is high - of the roughly 150 guards protecting the refugees, only 70 manage to swim to the ships to join their families. As the tiny flotilla sails south for Notrion, the shouts and jeers of the victorious Jennites fade into the distance. The citizens of the Bettellynian town of Sabetta are surprised to see a large force of Randelian soldiers march from the south, and surround them! The force's commander, under a flag of truce, approaches the town, and asks to see the mayor. When she is escorted out to meet the soldier, she is told that, in retaliation against continued rebel Bettellynian attacks along the coastal region, the town of Sabetta and its environs will be occupied until such time as a negotiated settlement is possible. He then informs the mayor that, so long as the locals do not resist, no harm will befall anyone. Realizing what is happening, and knowing that there was a force of Bettellynian soldiers to the south - who must have been defeated - she agrees to surrender to the Randelians. Queen Llynara, upon hearing the news, orders a general mobilization of the Bettellynian army. In the Greenspurian capital of Eagret, a secret meeting takes place with representatives from Theranderol. Outlining the increasingly tense situation with their southern neighbour, Arogansa, the Theranderolians ask Greenspur to sign a pact of military co-operation, in the event that Arogansa decides to attack any Theranderolian positions. In exchange for this aid, Greenspur will the allowed a free hand in the western regions of Arogansa, and uncontested control over all territories that it manages to conquer. Feeling increasingly nervous about the military posturing of its eastern neighbour, Greenspur reluctantly agrees. While allied soldiers force the Thothians into a slow retreat in southern Hillvale, a small flotilla lands just east of Ekto, and several hundred Dunadaler and Thyatian forces quickly take up defensive positions along the beaches. The Thothians send out a reconnaissance force to test the resolve of the allies, though few of these return to make a report, so efficient were the invaders. Seeing that their enemies are both resourceful and skilled, the Thothians decide to harry them with the occasional patrol, and cast offensive spells at them whenever they are spotted. With the fall of Aeria to Thothian forces, King Heldeberan No-Man's-Fool of Aegos orders his son, Dromedon, to venture to nearby Furmenglaive, in the hopes of securing aid against the invasion he knows will eventually come. The Aegosian force that was sent to aid its ally was decimated by the enemy; only 150 of the 500 soldiers managed to return. With a population of only 5,000, Heldeberan knows that Aegos cannot stand long against Thothia's might, and that allies must be found. Thyatis, being a powerful empire, might be well disposed to aid the kingdom. On Gaity, Queen Timalta orders her recently-returned forces to make preparations to defend the kingdom. Fall, AC 1014: The residents of Kirn, Theranderol, are shocked to hear the sounds of explosions, coming from the southern districts of the port city! Quickly, the city's defenders rush to uncover the menace, and come face-to-face with a small army of Arogansan soldiers. Immediately, a pitched battle erupts, as the Theranderolians try to push back the invaders, and the Arogansans cast spells of destruction against buildings, civilians, and anything else in their path. The defence is too little, too late, and within hours the defenders of Kirn are routed, fleeing to the north. With a raucous cheer, the Arogansans proceed to systematically loot the city. In what was once Eadrin, Arogansan soldiers march against Theranderolian positions northeast of Archport, successfully pushing them northwards, while other divisions capture more territory to the east, towards the Randelian-controlled port of Nafertin. Receiving messages by magical means that Arogansa has launched its offensive against Theranderol, the military commanders of the army of Greenspur give the order to attack Arogansan positions in Perponaz, Bluenose, and Avrads. Within hours, thousands of soldiers quickly cross the border, overwhelming defensive positions nearby, and laying siege to the cities of Avrads and Perponaz. The force dispatched by the remainder of the Grand Council to conquer Mafertat manages to overcome the defences and assume control of the region. Many Argonathian soldiers, seeing that the Alphatians have the upper hand, retreat into the wilderness to conduct guerrilla warfare. Within days, it soon becomes apparent to the invaders that they are trapped in Mafertat. Those soldiers who venture outside the town's walls are ambushed and killed, and those mages unfortunate to show themselves are attacked by a hail of arrows, crossbow bolts, and the odd spell. South of Mafertat, scouting parties sent by the Grand Council encounter not only hostile Argonathians; westward-roving partols of Qeodharians clash with them as well. Though the battles with the Qeodharians are more of a nuisance than anything else (being inconclusive battles), they do pose a danger to Council forces in that they tie down troops who could be used for flushing out Argonathian guerrillas, or for relieving the defenders of Mafertat. The camp of King Acroshiye, settled in the midst of the Ugly Wood, is disturbed by the reports of returning scouts. Apparently, there is a ragged party of elves, coming from the southwest, led by none other than King Drushiye of Limn! Quickly, Acroshiye dispatches an escort to bring the elves to his camp, where they may be looked after. Within the hour, the band of elves - twenty in all - is brought before Acroshiye, and greeted warmly. As soon as they are fed and made comfortable, Drushiye tells his tale of woe, from the siege of Trollhattan in AC 1012, to the expulsion of the survivors of that siege from what was once Limn a year later, and of the two-year trek up the western coast of Alphatia, and then eastwards through the Kerothar Mountains. Many of those present weep openly at the tale, and seeing the impact Drushiye has made upon his warriors, Acroshiye makes a solemn vow, that once Blackheart has been laid low forevermore, the Shiye shall turn their might against Stoutfellow and Stonewall. In the Bettellynian rebel-held territory of Dmireton, troops loyal to Queen Llynara storm rebel positions north and west of Dmireton itself, quickly seizing them. They then proceed to assume control of the surrounding countryside. Occasional skirmishes between the Bettellynians and local Randelian forces erupt, most of these being inconclusive. In Skyfyr, Esterhold, a lone Jennite warrior rides up to the city's southern gates, and requests, in Alphatian, a meeting with the rulers of the Kingdom of Blackrock. Intrigued, the Jennite is allowed, under heavy guard, to pass the gates, and is led to the palace, where King Xanthus is holding court. All conversation stops the moment the Jennite enters, and, assured that he has everyone's attention, the warrior issues the ultimatum he was ordered to deliver. He recounts the successive victories of the Jennites against the Alphatians, and of the often horrific acts inflicted upon those Alphatians who could not escape in time, saying that the oppressors are merely receiving due payment for the wrongs inflicted upon the Jennites. He tells them that the massed might of the free Jennites is "like unto the blackest sea, inundating all before it", and he says this: "The people of Skyfyr will be granted until the coming of the spring flowers to depart in peace from this land, and to never return, upon pain of death. Outlanders, this realm is no longer yours; we have fought your best warriors, and rent them asunder; we have lain your greatest mages low. We give you this one chance to leave unmolested, in honour. If you do not, the punishment meted upon the people of Rock Harbour, Faraway, and other places shall pale in comparison to those we shall inflict upon you for your audacity!" As his last word echoes about the audience hall, before anyone can react, he makes a bounding leap to the nearest window, crashing through the glass. A thorough, but fruitless, search of the city is begun afterwards; the lone Jennite is nowhere to be seen. Realizing that his city is the sole remaining Alphatian holding in Esterhold, Xanthus decides to begin preparations for the evacuation of all civilians from Skyfyr, though he intends to remain in the city to the end, along with his soldiers, to fight the Jennites. Once more, the allied forces of Thyatis, Dunadale, and Hillvale manage to push the Thothians back to the former border with Ekto, and their positions soon become entrenched. Despite considerable magical might being brought to bear against the defending Thothians, they have picked excellent positions in the surrounding hills and valleys from which to hold off their opponents. On the second front east of Ekto, the diminished allied forces who recently gained a beachhead are bolstered by fresh Thyatian and Hillvalian troops from East Portage. Having greater numbers, the force is able to lay Ekto to siege. In Furmenglaive, Dromedon of Aegos meets with Count Phileus to discuss recent events in Aeria, and the Thothian menace to the region. Phileus listens patiently, and then explains to Dromedon that Thyatian forces are currently allied with those of Dunadale and Hillvale in an effort to repulse Thothian advances on the Isle of Dawn itself. Dromedon, not knowing of this, is surprised, and requests, on his father's behalf, the aid of Thyatis against the Thothians. Knowing that, if Aegos were to fall to Thothia, Thyatian holdings on the Isle of Dawn could be attacked directly, Phileus agrees to send the message to Thyatis City as soon as possible. Winter, AC 1014: After many weeks of pounding at Avrads' walls with catapult boulders and magical spells, and of blockading the port with twenty warships, Arogansa's only port on the Aaslan Gulf falls to the massed might of Greenspur. Quickly, the soldiers rush into the city, ordering all civilians to remain in their homes, and all remaining defenders to lay down their arms. Scattered fighting persists in the northern quarter, but this, too, is silenced before the day is out. Once Avrads is fully under Greenspurian control, the general in charge of the assault assembles those city administrators still present, and informs them that, in accordance with her orders from the king of Greenspur himself, she is to be recognized as military governor of Avrads, with her orders carrying the weight of law. Seeing no chance of resisting at present, the remaining administrators recognize her authority. In southwestern Arogansa, invading Greenspurian forces encounter many difficulties in their advance on Perponaz. Although their soldiers are highly disciplined, and many clerics are counted among their numbers, the defending battle mages of Arogansa are able to disrupt the advance sufficiently to induce heavy casualties, and to allow the defenders to regroup. Although the Greenspurians manage to get within a few hundred feet of the city walls, they are ultimately pushed back. The Argonathian port of Mafertat is regained from the invading Alphatian armies after a prolonged period of guerrilla warfare. Demoralized because of their inability to break out of the Argonathians' blockade of the port, and by the ongoing campaign of terror conducted against any soldiers who ventured outside the town walls, the invaders surrender. In all, 960 Aran soldiers are captured. The governor of Mafertat then dispatches a messenger to Floating Ar, with the instructions to deliver a message to the Grand Council that their attempted invasion of Argonath has failed, and that King Caradon would be interested in discussing terms of a peace treaty with its eastern neighbour. In northern Blackheart, a force of 1,500 men crosses the Rainbow River southwards, encountering no resistance. The movement south does not remain unhindered; within hours, the Argonathians encounter stiff resistance from humanoids in the employ of Blackheart's army. Despite their numerical superiority, they are poorly organized, resorting to massed attacks and disdaining stealth. The invading Argonathians, on the other hand, use whatever cover is available, and utilize hit-and-run tactics to draw the enemy into vulnerable positions, and then mount quick, brutal assaults before melting into the woods. After two days of this kind of fighting, the humanoids are demoralized, and flee. The Argonathians then resume their southward march. A few weeks after the fall of Mafertat to the Argonathians, the Frislander town of Okadia reinforced with fresh troops from Floating Ar and Foresthome. Clashes with Qeodharian soldiers in the Fris River valley in recent weeks have inflicted some losses on Council forces in the region, and news of the loss of Mafertat has reached Skyreach. Having no wish to see their attempt to regain control of what was once Frisland fail, the Grand Council is trying to ensure that at least one significant settlement in the region will remain under their control, if only to serve as a safe landing point for their airships. In Argondor, Argonath, King Caradon orders emissaries to Ostland and Thyatis, in the hopes of securing agreements for the shipment of foodstuffs and other essentials the newly-formed nation lacks. Royal officials have inspected all the granaries within Argonath's borders, and have reported to Caradon that there is enough food to last this winter, but no more. Without the trade agreements with neighbouring Alphatian kingdoms that kept Frisland from starving, Argonath will have to look farther afield in search of a means to sustain itself. Caradon also commissions those wizards remaining in the city to research a means of boosting agricultural yields, or of otherwise improving the climate. In northern Randel, the rebel-held town of Dmireton falls to loyalist Bettellynian forces after several hours of intense fighting. It soon becomes apparent that several squads of crack assault troops were teleported into the town, who then managed to secure key positions. Those rebel leaders who were not killed in the assault are rounded up and sent to Citadel. In Skyfyr, Esterhold, King Xanthus watches the last of the civilians board a ship bound for Foresthome. Once the ship is heading safely out to sea, he issues orders to his officers to assess the fortifications, and to ensure that food stocks are well-protected. He is well aware of the continuing turmoil on the mainland, and that there is little chance of receiving reinforcements, or support of any kind. The people remaining in the city are Alphatian soldiers and battle-mages. Despite excellent defensive positions, the Thothians are forced to give ground to the advancing allied forces. The past several weeks of battle have seen fresh troops, most of whom are Thyatian, thrown against them, all the while reducing the Thothians through attrition. Making matters worse is the continued siege of Ekto. Defending units posted to the city have been unable to break the siege, and supplies are beginning to run low. In Aegopoli, King Heldeberan receives a note from Emperor Thincol Torion of Thyatis, stating that, as Thyatis is aware of Aegos' precarious position, it would be willing to aid the island kingdom in defending itself from Thothian aggression. Several batallions have been sent already, and, if Heldeberan deems it necessary, more could be made available. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:17:42 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1015)] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Alternate Alphatian Timeline (AC 1015) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:24:30 -0400 Spring, AC 1015: Along a line of forested hills in northern Blackheart, northward-marching Shiye elves and southward-marching Argonathian soldiers come face-to-face. After a few tense moments of surprise, it soon becomes apparent that neither side is a hostile force. Quickly, relief gives way to joy, as the realization dawns that Blackheart is now all but beaten. Whoops of joy erupt among both sides, and soon King Acroshiye meets with the general of the Argonathian forces. After quickly agreeing that their meeting place should form the border between their realms, they then jointly declare that Blackheart has been defeated, after months of hard campaigning. The meeting place soon becomes a festive place, as soldiers from both sides share tales of their battles. After a whole day of celebrations, both forces agree to co-operate in securing all of Blackheart. Weeks later, a final counterattack from the remaining Blackhearter forces inflicts considerable damage upon the allies. The combined force of humans and elves had successfully advanced eastwards, confining the remaining hostile forces to a pocket in the northeastern reaches of Blackheart, when the counteroffensive came. Within three days, two weeks' worth of gains is lost to the forces of Blackheart, but then the battle lines stabilize as the retreating allies entrench themselves in better defensive positions. In Greenspur, the eastern port of Telsatus finds itself under siege, as the southeastern offensive of 1014 against Perponaz and Bluenose gives way to a full rout under the disciplined response of the Arogansans. Within days, the people of Telsatus are already suffering from food shortages and falling morale, and soon pressure builds for the city's governor to surrender to the invaders. Elsewhere in Greenspur, Arogansan forces plunge deep into the interior of their western neighbour, overrunning many towns and villages, and expelling the inhabitants. Though they meet with some resistance from reserve forces, it is largely ineffectual; casualties are very high for the defenders. Near the Theranderolian town of Lidyem, local troops attack Randelian forces marching southwest. The battle is fierce, but the Randelians are forced to retreat eastwards. Word of the incident finds its way to both sides. The Randelians say they were merely marching through Theranderol to attack Arogansan positions, while the Theranderolians say the troop movement was a precursor of a larger invasion by Randel. Positions harden on both sides, and orders are given to their armies that another enemy has entered the fray. In Citadel, Bettellyn, the rogue military commanders responsible for the unsanctioned attacks on Randel are put on trial, and executed for treason. Word of the deed is sent to King Verothrics of Randel. Although he applauds the results, Verothrics says that, due to ongoing military tensions in the south, he will be unable to order a withdrawal of his forces from Sabetta and the surrounding region until all fronts are secure, owing to the strategic location of the Randelian-held town north of the Grey Mountains. Disheartened with the response, Queen Llynara responds by saying that loyalist Bettellynian forces stationed in Dmireton will likewise remain where they are. Afterwards, she meets with her top generals to draw up plans for the retaking of Sabetta, and the "neutralization" of Randel. In the occupied city of Kirn, Theranderolian forces manage to inflict heavy casualties upon the Arogansans, and to drive them out. After establishing defensive positions, troops are sent further south, into Arogansan territory, where they meet little resistance from the defenders. Days later, the Greenspurian-held port city of Avrads is besieged by a large host of Arogansan soldiers, fresh from looting the interior of their western neighbour. Within two days, the city is suffering from heavy bombardments from catapults, and a handful of battle-mages on skyships owned by Arogansa. Lacking battle-mages of their own, the defending Greesnpurians punch a hole in the besiegers' western positions, and make a frantic push home. Not paying attention to their fleeing opponents, the victorious Arogansans move into the port city, and secure it, sending token forces westwards in pursuit of their enemies. In Thothia, news reaches the Pharaoh and his advisors that their forces in Ekto are increasingly hard-pressed, as are those near Hillvale. The past several weeks have seen the Thothian lines almost collapse on a few occasions, as fresh troops from Thyatis give the advancing allied forces renewed strength. Now, the battle lines in the west are only 30 miles from Ekto, which is itself still under siege. Realizing that it is only a matter of time before his forces are totally demoralized, Ramenhotep instructs his advisors to sound the order for a general retreat. Forces stationed west of Ekto shall regroup in Trikelios, to bolster defending units there, and those in Ekto shall be given the choice, they may try one last time to break the siege and flee, or they are free to surrender. In Aegos, the eastern coastal village of Arnilston is attacked by several Thothian warships, which quickly pull into port and disgorge their troops. Within an hour, Arnilston is under Thothian control with minimal loss of life. In Aegopoli, the first Thyatian soldiers arrive, immediately taking up positions in the city to better defend it. Summer, AC 1015: The newly-reconquered port of Avrads finds itself under siege once more - this time by Theranderolian forces coming from the east, and resurgent Greenspurians from the west. Seeing the massed might arrange against them, the Arogansan defenders decide to capitulate to the Theranderolians, who had already broken into the city, in the interest of sparing the inhabitants from more bloodshed. The Theranderolians accept the surrender, and, after disarming the defenders, arrange to ship them by boat to Kirn, where they will be held as prisoners. The civilians are told that they may stay if they are willing to accept Theranderolian suzerainty; otherwise, they are to head south, behind Arogansan lines. Most opt to leave, sickened at what has happened to their once-beautiful city. Not long afterwards, Greenspurian forces arrive, and, taking stock of the situation, redeploy themselves several miles west of Avrads, securing that territory. In southern Greenspur, the westward-marching Arogansan invaders make considerable progress, covering almost half the distance to the western coast before encountering stiff resistance. After the surrender of Telsatus at the end of Thaumont, they faced largely disorganized resistance units during their advance, but now they see thousands of battle-hardened Greenspurian soldiers and battle-clerics ranged in front of them. With a great yell, the defenders charge into the advancing Arogansans, who are driven back by the sheer ferociousness of the assault. By the time they get their bearings, over one-third of the invading force has either been killed or wounded, with many battle-mages numbering among the casualties. The rear guard, seeing what is happening, breaks ranks and flees eastwards, leaving the main host without reinforcements. Although they put up a fierce fight, and inflict heavy casualties with their own magical might, the Arogansans are simply too weary and outnumbered, and soon the survivors offer to surrender to the defenders. The next day, 2,300 unarmed Arogansan soldiers are marched to Eagret, where they will be held as prisoners. In Theranderol, the eastern town of Lidyem is overrun by invading Randelian forces. Quickly, the troops fan out into the countryside, securing several strategic forts in the region. Queen Eldrethilia of Theranderol angrily demands of King Verothrics why his forces have decided to attack her nation unprovoked, but no response is forthcoming. In the Imperial Territories, westward-roving Bettellynian soldiers encounter a large stretch of forest, which, from their own knowledge, none existed before. As they probe into the woods, they are met by a small group of armed Shiye elves. The elves tersely inform them that the southwestern reaches of the Imperial Territories are now under Shiye control, and that, as trespassers, they should return to the east. Wordlessly, the soldiers return to their original encampment, and send word back to Bettellyn proper that Shiye Lawr has staked a claim in part of the Imperial Territories, and that Bettellyn should do the same in the regions bordering it. After months of fruitless skirmishes, emissaries from the forces of Blackheart approach the camps of the elves and the Argonathians, proposing a truce. Quickly, the representatives state that this continued fighting is getting them nowhere, and is draining precious men and resources from all sides. They say that Blackheart is willing to surrender to the enemy, in exchange for an end to all attacks against what remains of Blackheart, and a return of any prisoners. Surprised by this offer, and eager to end the fighting, the invaders agree to the terms, but insist upon the right to maintain a fortified presence along the new border. Near Skyfyr, Esterhold, the long-anticipated Jennite offensive finally materializes, as thousands of horse warriors stampede into view with a great cheer. The initial assault, though vicious, is successfully repulsed by the defenders with little loss of life through the judicious use of powerful offensive spells. Seeing that this final conquest will not be easy, the Jennites proceed to lay Skyfyr to siege. Late in the summer, just as Argonathian farmers are preparing to harvest the small amount of produce they could grow, news spreads quickly of several cargo vessels, lying low in the water, pulling into Ydroyas and Mafertat. It soon becomes apparent that the ships are laden with grain - from Thyatis! Over the next few days, it soon becomes apparent that the diplomatic efforts to secure recognition for the new nation have borne some fruit. There is enough grain and other food staples to see the kingdom through this winter, and most of the next year, if need be. Accompanying the cargo vessels is a smaller vessel, bearing Julius Torsarius, the Thyatian ambassador to Argonath. On the Isle of Dawn, the Thothian-occupied city of Ekto surrenders to the allied forces. Unable to break the siege gripping the port city, the Thothians, upon hearing of the Pharaoh's order, opt to preserve their own lives. The defenders, demoralized and starving after a relentless siege, eagerly lay down their weapons in exchange for food, a promise of fair treatment, and medical attention, while Thyatian, Dunadaler, and Hillvalian soldiers take up defensive positions along the walls. In nearby Trikelios, defensive positions are bolstered by Thothian soldiers retreating from their positions west of Ekto. In Aegos, more Thyatian troops arrive, and proceed eastwards to secure more of the island. It is not long afterwards that, just north of Pittston, Thyatian advance scouts meet westward-roving Thothian forces. The intial encounter is brief, and the Thyatians are forced to pull back to the nearby village of Rundsol. Fall, AC 1015: The Theranderolian city of Mersepolis comes under a heavy barrage of Randelian magic might, delivered by battle mages on the ground and in a handful of skyships. Mersepolis' own air fleet, numbering four small ships, stages several daring sorties against the invaders, and manages to inflict some casualties before being forced to flee westwards. Aside from the success of the initial assault, the invading Randelians are unable to advance any farther. In the former kingdom of Eadrin, the Theranderolian-claimed town of Ecem is overrun by advancing Randelian soldiers. Although the defenders fought bravely, they lacked the unity and professionalism of their opponents. After securing the town, the Randelian commander in charge of this battalion orders his forces to man the walls, and proceed to restore order. Captured Theranderolian forces are disarmed, and marched eastwards. After weeks of negotiations, the joint Argonathian-Shiye forces in Blackheart devise a system of maintaining joint defences over the lands that they have acquired during their offensives. Their common border will have a minimum number of soldiers along its length, with the bulk of their forces concentrated in the east, along the new frontier with Blackheart. Those soldiers left over from both sides are sent home. Weeks later, in Argondor, Argonath, King Caradon receives his returning soldiers heartily, proclaiming a nationwide holiday to commemorate the decisive victory against Blackheart, and of the restoration of the old southern borders. To show his appreciation for their efforts, he awards each soldier with a new set of armour and weapons - gifts from "our trusted ally and benefactor, the empire of Thyatis." Julius Torsarius, who is also present, looks on. During that same speech, Caradon also announces that refugees from those towns being threatened by "belligerent Alphatian and Qeodharian forces" will be granted land in the newly-acquired southern territories. This is an effort not only to cement his claim on those lands, but also to bring their fertile soils under the plough, so that Argonath will not starve. In Greenspur, the disorganized Arogansan retreat continues. Every week, more occupied towns are liberated by the defending armies, though the Arogansans make their enemies pay in blood for every mile they are forced to retreat. Towards the end of Ambyrmont, large swaths of formerly-occupied territory in central Greenspur have been reclaimed, though reports begin to arise concerning guerrilla activities on the part of Arogansans soldiers who did not retreat with the main body of their forces. Resolving to push the invaders out of their country first, the Greenspurians decide to ignore the reports for the time being. Randelian positions east of Sabetta come under intense magical bombardment, as Bettellynian forces strike westwards in a pincer movement to encircle the town and retake it. Although the Randelians resist mightily, the attackers had the element of surprise by means of battle mages teleporting near their positions and casting fireballs, meteor swarms, and lightning bolts at them. There is little they can do but retreat to Sabetta, and take up defensive positions. Further north, Bettellynian settlers, under the escort of veteran soldiers, move westwards into the Vertiloch Hills, and establish improvised settlements. This is in response to thr earlier encounter with the Shiye elves; seeing that central authority appears to be well and truly gone, Bettellyn sees the former Imperial Territories as prime lands in which to expand. In Skyfyr, several major assaults against this last Alphatian holdout in Esterhold are staged, all to no avail. On several occasions, some Jennites manage to reach the tops of the walls, only to find scores of battle-hardened soldiers and mages waiting for them. Though the Jennites know they are fighting a war of attrition they know they will ultimately win, the tribal chieftains are impatient to destroy Skyfyr so that they may return to their traditional hunting grounds. This leads to poorly-planned assaults that cost more lives than necessary. In Skyreach, news of the defeats in Argonath, and of the seemingly inevitable loss of Esterhold, finally reaches what remains of the Grand Council. The past several years have seen nothing but a string of reversals and infighting that have not only lost Alphatians territories in Skothar; they have also alienated the kingdoms of Randel, Theranderol, and Haven, among the three most powerful kingdoms. To most observers, it is clear that the disaster in AC 1009 destroyed not only the imperial family; it also killed off the best and brightest of the Grand Council, leaving only the most incompetent and uninspiring leaders. Realization of this fact sets in among the people of Floating Ar, Ambur, and Foresthome. In eastern Aegos, Thyatian and Aegosian forces encounter scattered elements of Thothian advance forces, many of whom are undead. Although the initial encounters are not in the defenders' favour, as time passes information is gained from allied forces stationed in Ekto concerning the best tactics to use against the Thothians, among them judicious use of clerical abilities. Armed with this knowledge, The Thyatians and Aegosians manage to secure several important victories, and the front slowly moves eastwards. Winter, AC 1015: In Argondor, Argonath, King Caradon gives a speech to an assembled group of minor nobles and military officers. Outlining the current military situation in northern Alphatia, Caradon says that the time has come for the kingdom to turn its attention eastwards. Though the army is exhausted, and supplies are short, Argonath cannot afford to wait any longer in reclaiming its old frontiers. The kingdom of Foresthome, he says, was awarded a swath of fertile farms and woodlands, which once belonged to Argonath. To restore the old kingdom fully, and to punish the Alphatians to the east, the Argonathian armies will march on Foresthome in AC 1016, both to establish a more defensible border (along the Roaring River), and to acquire fertile lands upon which the nation can better feed itself. Also, action must be taken to expel Qeodharian forces occupying the ports of Ybod and Gowola, and their surrounding regions. The reaction to the speech is mixed, but hopeful. Theranderolian forces marching eastwards from Errolyn smash into the western flank of the Randelian troops trying to take Mersepolis. The Randelians were not expecting an attack of such size, or of such vigour. Within hours, the Randelians lose a considerable amount of ground, and before the day is out they are forced away from Mersepolis. Over the next few days, the Randelians are able to maintain their discipline, but they cannot hold the line against the Theranderolians, and so are forced to give ground steadily, but slowly. In southern Greenspur, the port city of Telsatus is regained from Arogansan occupiers. At this stage in the war between Arogansa and Greenspur, the advancing Greenspurians have the advantage, with high morale, fresher troops, and a burning desire to expel all enemy forces from their nation. What has also spurred them to fight tenaciously are the tales told by refugees from the occupied lands - tales of being expelled from their towns and villages, and seeing Arogansans move in to replace them. Everywhere that territories are regained, Arogansan settlers are given an ultimatum: swear allegiance to Greenspur, or leave. Many opt for the latter option, though some remain. Along the northern region of Arogansa, thousands of Greenspurian and Theranderolian troops march south, after gathering their forces over most of the past year, while holding the line against their enemy. Over the next few weeks, the southward-marching armies fight numerous skirmishes, and occupy several towns and villages along the way. Scouts from the Arogansan-held city of Archport report to their commander that a large force of Randelian soldiers has been spotted, heading southwest along the coast. Surprised, the commander sends an urgent message to Bluenose, saying that more troops will be needed if Archport is to remain under Arogansan control. The response is equally disheartening - Greenspurian forces have retaken Telsatus, and Perponaz is likely the next target. Also, almost the entire northern half of Arogansa is now under enemy occupation, and thousands of enemy troops are moving south. Realizing that he is on his own, the commander orders his forces to entrench themselves, and prepare for a vicious battle. After several weeks of near-constant bombardment from Bettellynian battle mages, the Randelian forces stationed in Sabetta announce their surrender. As the captured soldiers are marched northwards, the victorious Bettellynians survey the damage - over half of Sabetta is in ruin, and over three-quarters of its population has fled. Moments later, King Verothrics of Randel receives the news of the defeat at Sabetta. Seeing that Llynara has no desire to return Dmireton to his nation, he issues the order for several batallions to take it back by force. With that, the Randelian war machine gears up even more. Another brutal assault commences against Alphatian positions in the city of Skyfyr. Unlike the previous attempts, the Jennites do not mount a massive charge against the gates and scale the walls. Instead, their mages use their magical prowess to cast magic missiles at any visible defenders, as well as create phantasms to try to demoralize the enemy. Some offensive spells are also cast against the walls, but these have little effect. The magical bombardment is almost constant, far more intense than the Alphatians believed the Jennites were capable of doing, though it is still pitiful by Alphatian standards. Several buildings catch fire within the city, and troops are pulled away from the walls to deal with the resulting fires. As this happens, the Jennites attempt to scale the walls on several occasions, though they are repulsed. Though Skyfyr remains unconquered, the defenders have suffered considerable casualties during the siege. Over one-quarter of the Alphatians are now dead, and of those who remain, one-fifth are either ill or injured. Having spent several months rebuilding Ekto's defences, restoring proper authority, and resettling former refugees, allied forces stationed in this port city prepare to advance eastwards - to Trikelios. Morale is high, reinforcements from Thyatis and Hillvale have arrived, and relations between the three forces, cordial at first, have now grown into strong friendships. Talk is spreading among the leaders of the three armies of a more comprehensive alliance between their nations. In Aegos, despite some initial successes against the Thothian invaders, Thyatian and Aegosian advances soon grind to a halt, as concerted resistance on the part of the Thothians, combined with large numbers of powerful undead and golems, manifests itself. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #175 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 176 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants (LONG) [MYSTARA] - Re: Politica Tempora part III [MYSTARA] - Alternate Timeline - Shadow Elves RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:51:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants (LONG) Here's a little something I adapted from a book (citation follows), for Minrothad. As always, it can be seen fully at my "regular" site: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/nonint.html This probably doesn't conform to "canon"; to be truthful, I didn't even look. Other comments are, of course, welcome. ;-) Jenn ___________________________ The Success of the Minrothad Merchant Class Averoignian economist Jean-Jacques Chretien, from a special lecture series ("The Future of the Magocracy in a Trade-Based World Economy") given at the Great School of Magic, Flaurmont 1016: ...Minrothad has replaced the sacrosanct notion of the commercial balance with the idea of working for commissions. They have become the great carriers over the seas. Enormous stocks of raw materials and tons of manufactured goods are transported from one country to another in their flat-bottomed, round-sterned ships. They buy only to sell again, and the major part of their vast commerce consists of taking supplies in every part of the world in order to supply the whole world in turn. Minrothad City, in fact, seems to be the warehouse of the world's goods, if you will. Merchandise from everywhere is sometimes stored there for several months, then sold when the best prices are available. Who are these Minrothaddans? How have "a handful of humans and elves reduced to a corner of the world where there is nothing but water and rocks," as Prince Etienne d'Ambreville has put it, managed to attain such affluence? What might the observations of a Glantrian be upon visiting their country? Let us imagine a fictitious trip taken by the son of an Averoignian merchant to the Minrothad Guilds. Suppose that the father of our traveler, like so many other merchants in Vyonnes, has a contact in Minrothad, a rich merchant who invites the young man to stay in his home in Minrothad City. When our young traveler visits Minrothad, he is astounded by the fact that the country is essentially urban. The inhabitants of the town represent two-thirds of the population, an enormous proportion compared to essentially rural Glantri. Rising out of a world of sea cliffs and fog, the city--admirable, spacious, airy--is lined with red-brown, black, or pink houses on piles around its semicircular and concentric paved streets. Street life is intense and disciplined, always within hearing of the city's countless bells. The appearance of the city is mostly neat and clean. The commercial areas are full of life, but without the deafening uproar heard in Glantrian streets. Numerous warehouses line the streeets; the state does not attempt to control economic activity in the cities as the Glantrian government does, although the power of the guilds over the various crafts is often tyrranical. While walking from one store or workshop to another, our traveler observes with astonishment the amount of metallic currency in circulation. Good coin is so hard to come by in Glantri! Even in Glantri City, a merchant or craftsman often has difficulty in obtaining payment. Nearly all work is done on credit, because of the monetary famine of the times. Intrigued, the Glantrian promises himself he will get an explanation of all this from his host. The home of his host is fairly large, comfortable, clean, but without ostentation. On the wall are hung paintings that show scenes of family and city life in all their truthfulness, all their simplicity. In the main room there is a portrait of the master of the house, by an artist who is doubtlessly struggling against poverty. Here a painter is one tradesman among others. Patronage is an unknown concept. A rich patrician pays for his order, and that is all. Art does not contribute in any way to illustrating the grandeur of the state. Our traveler, accustomed to the diversity of dress among the Glantrians, who are always careful to reveal their social stature or acquired privilege through their clothes, notes with some surprise the somber black or violet clothing of his host family. He is aware of their great fortune, and notes the near absence of servants. The mistress of the house does her own shopping. This simplicity of life extends to the important personages of state. Helka Ruyter, wife of a celebrated naval hero, does her own shopping too; and Oran Meditor himself sometimes goes about on foot (albeit with a contingent of bodyguards). Meals are taken in near-silence. The food is not especially refined. Our traveler dreams of the lively feasts of Averoigne. he has further occasion to speak with his hosts in their little private garden, which almost all the Minrothad burghers possess, over a cup of tea, coffee, or chocolate, all commodities brought in by the ships of the great trade companies. The Minrothaddans ask the young Glantrian his plans for the future. It is their turn to be surprised by the limited interest he shows in his father's export business. The young man's preoccupations seem to be the office of treasurer that his father wants to buy for him soon and the beautiful estate that his family is preparing near Ximes. The son of the household, about the same age as the guest, also speaks to him about his future. He evokes with enthusiasm the ships that adventure to the far reaches of the world in search of rare goods; he describes the fantastic commerical activity that animates the quays of his city. What is his ambition? It is to become a rich merchnat like his father. For him, trade is a sort of epic. He is even learning the languages of far-off lands. Minrothad possesses the greatest center in the world for the study of languages. How will he invest his profits? As his parents did, in his townhouse. The properties of the landed aristocracy, few in number, hold no interest for him. A few paintings, some fine porcelain, and polished copper cookware will adorn his only investment in real estate: a fine urban residence where he can lead a simple, virtuous, and closed family life. All this talk gives the young Glantrian a glimpse of a new idea: Success confirms virtue. Minrothaddans read a tremendous amount. Greater intellectual freedom and lax censorship have made this watery corner of Brun a publisher's paradise. Perhaps nowhere else in the world can one find such a wealth of non-magical reading in a personal library. Our traveler finds numerous botanical works (a legacy of the country's elven heritage) and popularizations of science in his host's library. The Minothaddans know how to combine their live of the concrete and of science with their commercial genius. Thanks to the advanced techniques of their processing industries (such as certain ways of dyeing cloth), they dominate major markets. Our traveler might then wish to observe more closely "the world's greatest warehouse" and Brun's leading financial marketplace. The extraordinary activity on the quays and docks of Minrothad City astonishes every visitor. Among the peculiar mobile cranes, Karameikan cereals, Darokinian wool, rice from Ochalea, wine from Narvaez, iron and wood from the Northern Reaches, spices from Sind and the Midlands, sugar from the Serpent Peninsula or Davania, and countless other goods from everywhere are loaded or unloaded before the ships depart for destinations all over the globe. Around Fyrmont the Sindhi/Peninsular fleet returns: twenty enormous ships with fabulous cargoes. In Flaurmont nearly two hundred vessels raise anchor for the northern Sea of Dawn. Because of its geographical situation, Minrothad finds itself not far from major river routes as well. Remarkable shipbuilders, the Minrothaddan elves design ships for each sea or water route and for each particular trade. The approach to the coasts is particularly dangerous, where the sea is at once violent and shallow. The merchants' spirit of enterprise does not allow itself to be intimidated by the wrecked ships broken up by the waves. All foreign visitors note the appetite for work and the extreme frugality of the Minrothaddans. All the world's goods pass through their hands, and they consume almost none of them. Even the best products of Minrothad are meant for exportation. Everything is designed for the best possible return on the lowest possible investment. The famous "flutes" (from the elven word fluit), flat-bottomed ships with round sterns and narrow decks, are inexpensive to build but can hold vast amounts of merchandise. Transportation costs are by far the lowest in the world. Thus the Minrothaddans have become indispensible go-betweens in world trade. In order to deal with the tremendous risks of the sea, Minrothaddan shippers have organized two remarkable systems: that of defensive magics, and that of maritime insurance. As defensive magics are more this institution's domain than my own, I shall consider the Minrothaddan insurance industry. Insurance companies have multiplied in the capital, to such a degree that they can lower their rates to ten percent and even eight percent of insured value. By comparison, the Darokinian rate of insurance on an over-land caravan is about 25 percent. Minrothaddan trade has invaded the world. Whereas in Darokin the great merchant houses struggle to establish separate markets, the Minrothaddan merchants spontaneously form associations to conquer the trade of both East and West. To the great consternation of the Thyatian trade ministry, part of Thyatian production (notably from the Isle of Dawn dominions) wind up in the warehouses of Minrothad City. The great Minrothaddan merchants have utilized with formidable efficiency the weapon of information in the service of commerce. No country possesses a regular messaging service so perfected, although a private Darokinian company is making gains in this field in recent years (Master Guido Umbarth shall speak on magical applications to trade tonight). Nowhere are there so many gazettes, nor are any as well-informed of economic events worldwide. Minrothaddan businessmen are always the first to know of shifting prices in distant markets, as well as of shipwrecks and natural calamities. Because they are also largely responsible for transporting raw materials and manufactured goods, speculation has become easy. These merchants can sometimes dictate prices in foreign ports, which hampers local trade considerably. The Minrothaddans have also had the genius to connect commercial and financial power in a manner never before seen. Economists rightly say that only trade can bring a country metallic currency. But Minrothaddan methods are different. After having seen the foremost port in all Mystara, our young traveler visits the leading financial market in all Brun (and perhaps the world, since Alphatia's demise). This is the famous Stock Exchange of Minrothad City, a sort of permanent commercial fair where world commerce is discussed. The building is classic, elegant. Some thirty columns support covered galleries, where the great merchants meet. Regular visitors know that they will find the Sea of Dawn merchants by one column, and those of the Savage Coast by another. Here a ship is chartered; a few steps farther on, it will be insured. In the courtyard, the talk is of real estate values, of long-term deals, of speculations in universal trade. All the world's goods, or nearly all, are given their price there. Perhaps in part because of this, the Minrothaddan crona is the most secure of world currencies. Another reason for the success of the currency is that the Central Bank always keeps on hand at least enough silver to cover all deposits. And, as Corwyn Mauntea of Darokin has been heard to say, Minrothad has the "enormous audacity" to make no effort to protect the metallic currency in its posession through prohibiting the exit of precious metals. Resolutely anitbullionist, the Guilds allow the exportation of currency, and even ingots. Furthermore, a merchant knows he can withdraw at any moment whatever he had depositied in the bank, without having to borrow. That certainty has attracted massive amounts of capital. Depositors accept the low interest that the bank offers them, in exchange for absolute liquidity, which as you know is unheard of in other countries. In this way, the bank accumulates considerable holdings in metal without charging large fees. This is the explanation for the abundance of metallic currency in circulation in Minrothad. All is not idyllic in Minrothad--much is needed. The efficient and unbending capitalism largely profits the bourgeios class--a very large class, it is true--but it also engenders widespread poverty, as a visit to the edge of any city could demonstrate. There, miserable agglomerations of slums contrast sadly with the neat comfort of bourgeois neighborhoods. But this is also true of other major cities, from Darokin to our own capital. Due to the absence of strict class distinctions and the Minrothaddans love of freedom, it can be said that social mobility is even more of a reality here than in Darokin or Thyatis. And it is the tireless ambition of the upwardly-mobile merchant class who will continue to make the Minrothad Guilds an economic force to be reckoned with. _________ [This passage was adapted from "Mercantilism and War: The Dutch Obsession," a chapter in _Colbert_ by Ines Murat, translated by Robert Francis Cook and Jeannie Van Asselt (Chalottesville: University Press of Virginia, 1984), 136-46.] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:17:47 +1000 From: stan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Politica Tempora part III >Hey, this was great! But where are the first two parts. I've scanned back >in the digest and can't seem to find them. Is there a site I could find >this on or can you e-mail the rest of it to me? Any of this older stuff can be found on my website, that's what the website is there for. Nicholas' Oard stuff can be found under Races then under Oard. stan http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 05:42:32 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate Timeline - Shadow Elves In one of the campaigns i played in the sylvan lands (Tree of life) suffered about 80% causalties. When it was found that the shadow elf population equaled about the same as alfheim the idea came up to take those who wanted on an "exodus" to the sylvan land. Think it was part of our Dm's way of getting us out of the "known world" and towards the salvage coast. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:00:06 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants (LONG) First: I love your description of the city! But I do have a few questions... > The famous "flutes" (from the elven word fluit), > flat-bottomed ships with round sterns and narrow > decks, are inexpensive to build but can hold vast > amounts of merchandise. Would such a ship be seaworthy? I thought that round-bottomed ships rode much better on the open sea. OTOH I suppose you could attribute this to the arcane craft of the sea elves. > Another reason for the success of the currency is that > the Central Bank always keeps on hand at least enough > silver to cover all deposits. How can this be? If all deposits are held in trust, then there is no pool of money available for lending. Why would the bank pay interest on deposits if it receives no revenue from them? This sounds like a money-losing policy. > In this way, the bank accumulates considerable holdings in > metal without charging large fees. But the metal does not belong to the bank; it belongs to the depositors, who can demand it at any time. I just don't see what good all these deposits are to the bank. I really enjoyed the article; it sounds like a great place for campaigning. I am no expert on ships or finance, so if anyone can answer my questions I'd be satisfied. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:41:55 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements And if they don't eliminate the >> source the plague will just be reintroduced whenever bread is >> distributed to the general populace. I hardly think taht the clerics >> were able to quell the plague; even if there were say 500 36th-level >> clerics working on it. > > >Well spoken! > >But I thought about "Wishes". And don't argue with the wisdom. >There should be enough level 36 spellcaster with enough INT/WIS >to raise the other, and don't forget, that it was a really big threat >for the country. The spellcaster themselves were endangered too, >but they seem to have locked themselves in their castles, towers >and houses. Historically, locking yourself away in a fortified place when a plague is raging is a popular and time-honored tradition; you can help and possibly die, or you can stay away, and survive (interesting aside; we can perhaps place Newton's genius at the feet of the Black Death: his best works were invented during one summer he spent in a rural farm to avoid the bubonic plague), although fortification often proved less than satisfactory (read the Mask of Red Death, by Poe). While the cowardly response isn't exactly noble, and one would tend to expect more from clerics especially, there are ploenty of arguements a preist could use to not get in involved, ranging from a fatalistic "It is 's will," to a Panglossian "What ever happens is good, and the best possible outcome." A very popular excuse would most likely be one along the lines of "secluded petitioning": "Father Mendius, why won't you come save us?" "Er, I'm, ummm.... praying for you! Yeah, praying for you, petitioning the almighty Immortals to end this terrible devastation. They say, uh... wait! Yes, wait! And bring me some food, but don't touch it, you understand?" Other responses, such as blaming a sinful community, are equally useful. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:49:50 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) >)I don't think I can be that moral. You have to be a person your congregation can respect. Practically everybody has sinned - they might not feel themselves deserving of such respect. I dont think this one aplise to all Mystaran churches. not all relegions are as totalitarian as ours, Mischa, and fewer things are considered "sins". the church of Ixion for ex' might want its priest to preform ceremonies several times a day and "always battle darkness" and fight undead but I whould think their wont be laws conscerning every aspect of life like in judaism. rulls on chastity for example could be much more easy to follow and probably much more fun. so this relegion could be more attractive to would be priests. I guess to be a pries would be very hard in the church of Ak Kalim as it corresponds to the RW relegion of islam. >Many people on Mystara might also fear having to look to their deity, seeking their blessing - they would think "what if I'm not worthy" and never try to become a cleric. Many people IRL probably worry about their ability to live up to G-d's commands and this might sway them from a role in the ministry or other clergy positions - in a world where the power of the immortal(s) is even more visible, how much more fearful the populace would be. but in a world where there are miracles all around more people would be awed and will want to become priests, as they wont have douts about the existence of deities in their wourld as we do. but a problam you didnt mention for priests on Mystara you didnt mention is "what immortal should I chose?" as some societis i.e. Thyatis are very tolerable, there is alwais more than one option on which church to follow. to some people this will come naturaly , but some will be in serious theological dilemas, as all religions in thier wourld are "real" but some dont go along with others. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:24:03 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara In a message dated 1999-04-15 11:07:11 Eastern Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > G:KoM doesn't say that Alphatia was "founded" in 400 AC. It only says that > 400 AC is the year when the Flaem (latecomers to Mystara) learned that the > Alphatians had beaten them to the KW. So Alphatia was "found" -- i.e. > discovered by the Glantrians -- that year, not "founded" (created). But G:KoM says for the year 400 AC: "Alphatians establish their empire in the east." Given what other sources say, this statement is just plain wrong. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:04:46 +1200 From: Richard Vowles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1999-04-15 11:07:11 Eastern Daylight Time, > dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > > > G:KoM doesn't say that Alphatia was "founded" in 400 AC. It only says that > > 400 AC is the year when the Flaem (latecomers to Mystara) learned that the > > Alphatians had beaten them to the KW. So Alphatia was "found" -- i.e. > > discovered by the Glantrians -- that year, not "founded" (created). > > But G:KoM says for the year 400 AC: "Alphatians establish their empire in > the east." Given what other sources say, this statement is just plain wrong. Maybe by "east" it means what is to become Ylarum? That would work... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:49:55 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics I agree, not unless they got there through deception. If a paladin or an avenger started whacking members of the Grand Council, it would be called "murder". SteelAngel wrote: > On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > him. He KILLS each challenger in one or two rounds, and afterwards > > he RAISES all of them. > > Bah. > > A good mage (36th level) can dispatch any fighter. Creative use of the > contingency spell. > > I personally don't want any non-MU's in my campaign's Grand council. > > Ethan > > -- > Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 > www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #176 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 177 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) [MYSTARA] - Treatsire on Glantri Preview RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:54:28 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) ŕéěď ůçí wrote: > >)I don't think I can be that moral. You have to be a person your > congregation can respect. Practically everybody has sinned - they might > not feel themselves deserving of such respect. > > I dont think this one aplise to all Mystaran churches. not all relegions are as totalitarian as ours, Mischa, and fewer things are considered "sins". the church of Ixion for ex' might want its priest to preform ceremonies several times a day and "always battle darkness" and fight undead but I whould think their wont be laws conscerning every aspect of life like in judaism. rulls on chastity for example could be much more easy to follow and probably much more fun. so this relegion could be more attractive to would be priests. I guess to be a pries would be very hard in the church of Ak Kalim as it corresponds to the RW relegion of islam. I disagree. I think there is an underlying truth to what constitutes immorality. So the lawful churches will pretty much all consider the same types of things sinful (perhaps those things which go against the state, or an idea of "what a proper state is"), and chaotic churches would consider the same types of things sinful (mostly concerning those things which restrict an individual's freedom). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:43:14 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Treatsire on Glantri Preview I am working on a pamphlet for the land of Glantri that is meant for PCs, tell me what you think (It contains Aalban and The City of Glantri): Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, or Malice? Astrius Hilltopper Gnome Illusionist-Adventurer Glantri was once a land of joy, incantations and a complete feeling of wonder so that I, awestruck as I was, became enchanted with it at a level that could transverse any magical bonds. However, ever since the great event that was so entitled 'The Wrath of the Immortals', such a name brought more then great horror and pain unto the people of the world than ever before conceived, the land itself has changed. I have toured the land of Glantri both prior and subsequent to the great upheaval that I have so described, I will begin at first with the great city itself that was at one time such a shining force, nay a gem of cultivation, in the known world. Glantri City Erstwhile the Wrath Such great effort was placed within the city that it forced such an insight into me that my very fantastic mind was so instructed with an essence of power and beauty, all of which was fused with the very essence of the land: magic. Calm, cool waters, brightly painted gondolas pushed along by long, red poles held by friendly gondoliers, and the sounds of the passerby merchants and those of who live within the city talking to each other so well; these were phrases that came to mind when one spoke of the canals of the great city of Glantri. The city itself was (and still is) divided into a great many of sectors (one more sector has henceforth been added, but upon the time in which I had visited, was not in existence). These sections are so extensive that an attempt to try to trivialize their vast differences would be sent to futility, therefore, I will give them a separate subsection for each district. The Citadel District Governmental quarters dominated this district, as well as governmentally run facilities. The first and foremost was the great School of Magic, which was used basically to aid the magocracy of the land and to allow magical applications to reach a new level of practicality and usefulness in the lives of all men, women and people of not just Glantri, but the entire world. The next great area was given the appellation 'The Citadel.' Such a fitting name for such a place it was. It was, and yet still is, a huge pentagonal building that housed the highly allegiant troops of the great battalions, called banners in this country, was housed here to be used in fortification for the city in the extreme case of invasion (which occurred during the great Wrath). The two administrative buildings in this land, denominated The House of Ministers, which houses the people in charge of the maintenance of the city, and the Parliament, which is used by the nobles, echoed with the very force of magic. (It is worth note to comment on the law of the land, it is ruled not by a king, but by a council of thirteen princes who meet and vote, as well as the nobles voting as well, this is how the land is governed). The great penitentiary of the land, the Tower of Sighs was well populated, of course, but nearly as crowded as it is now. The final place is the Alexander Platz, it was a loud, social place that was filled with so many people of affluence that one could not feel the culture in the air. This was the portion of town that was the great center of the land. The Merchant's Quarter This name was, and still is, a bit of a misnomer, as it was not the only center of commerce in the land. However, it is populated almost exclusively by the members of the merchant class. The spokesmen's guild, merchant's guild, and other guilds all were based here. The open market, a loud, lively place, was a place that was held in high esteem as a place of were both members of the lower echelon and those of a higher caste to mingle in the same locality, and was a place of greatness and equality. Port Quarter The very gateway into the very heart of the city, which is situated on the very nexus of the greater Isoile and Vesubia rivers, and saw treasure and spice laden ships from far off lands and was greatly related to the forms of travelers and tourists of who came in to revitalize the city. Entertainer's Quarter This was a place which was the very epitome of both culture and magic. The largest and greatest thespian performances in the land was held at the great Metropolitan Theater, a huge, beautiful building that was as common for the outsiders in the land, but also a favorite trysting place for the local inhabitants of the land as well. Another great place was the Mages' Hostelry, a store which treated the visitors with the largest amount of convenience and respect through the use of great magical incantations. Such places drew in nearly half of all the visitors to the land. Nobles' Quarter Prosperity is the very essence of the land that is held within such an area that I remember the scent of expense and the sight of silk was as common as water in this area. The people were open, friendly and generous, and they acted so much in grace that I wished only that so many men of wealth of the world were blessed with such a generosity. Two other sites of importance, the expensive Silver Tower Inn and the great Temple of Rad which was, at the time, the only religion tolerated in the land, were in this area as well. West Side Quarter The poorer district of the town was not one that was so frequented by myself, but according to my research that was conducted at the time, it was not so severely rooted with crime, and the great rampart organized crime that is now so rampant was not nearly so evident. Middle Class Quarter This land is held with a great throng of the average people in the land. These people, mostly of a scholarly pursuit, work as a major percentage of the wizards in the city. It holds the four greatest scholarly institutes in the land that is not associated solely to effort of magic. These four edifices, the Scribes Association, The City Library, The Sages' League, and the Scholars' Fraternity, were at one time filled with generous scholars who worked in order to aid mankind, and such aid was surely in great demand. Since the Wrath The first and foremost feeling that has been implanted into the very psyche of the land is that of utter mistrust. Now the once cool and crisp water have been replaced by murky depths with a sharper lesser number of people walking the streets, most of which are silent and rude. The land itself is marked by a lower average temperature and far more cloudy days and a greater number of both crimes and a feeling of unease. The most strange feeling that has befallen the city, however is the fact that now the continual light spells that have been used to illuminate the streets are starting to fail, making most of the areas dark and mysterious. The feeling has caused a sharp decline for people to travel to this land, as it has seemed to become a bit less desirable as a place to be visited. The Citadel District The most startling changes of which I noticed are that the people of the various institutions have become much more self-serving. Instead of the schools and judges working in order to aid the common man have now seemed only to serve themselves. Also, a strange event has caused a sharp increase of crime, the Tower of Sighs is now greatly overpopulated and such criminals have been known to vanish, no one looks into such disappearances. The Merchant's Quarter The mercantile district has not changed in such a dramatic way, however, it is more diversified along a cultural level set towards the rich, while a decrease in the importation of goods from lands beyond the border. It is now very difficult to purchase goods without almost being run down by a noble, and a feeling of unease and mistrust has extended to outsiders, especially dwarves, gnomes and halflings. Port Quarter This is an area which has suffered the lowest level of change in recent years. This area is now slower and a bit less lively, it is a rarity that foreign ships come these days, and such ships are treated with indifference. The oddest thing is that murder has sharply inclined in this area, while the amount of constables has sharply declined within this precinct. Entertainer's Quarter This area manages to retain an air of utter joy and grace within a land that has started what appears to be a descent into darkness. Such happiness, however, is quite obviously a mask for feelings of both unease and a sense towards dread. Noble's Quarter This district, which used to be the very body and exemplary force for the greatest charitable force in the land. Now, however, the nobles are using only their wealth and social facilities to serve only themselves. Also, the sense of fashion that was at one time spread towards optimism now highlights people of beauty to be pale with dark hair and dark clothing and a sullen attitude. Do to this stark contrast the feeling of discomfiture is not situated by the visitors to the residents, but the citizenry to the guests. The West Side Quarter Although this area of less affluence was also marked by a steady wave of both crime and corruption, such areas of the underbelly of the city have blossomed in the recent years. Now, various thievery factions vie for control of the land, including the evil thieves in the Fellowship of the Pouch to the indecorously dark 'Beggars' Court.' Do not frequent this area unless it is of most importance. Middle Class Quarter The land that was, at one time, the household for the greatest scholarly workers in the land and remains mostly unchanged, and yet, something is amiss. The scholars themselves are no longer focused on arts such as medicine and science, but now seem geared towards darker arts, despite the fact very few texts in a magical nature and situated here. Also, the libraries and gargoyles that adorn this area seem to be in a state of terminal decay, and no effort has been placed to rectify the now ominous decorum. Outer District Although the areas directly outside of the city gates always were inhabited, it is now a time for a rush towards the city itself. This area has grown in popularity for the lowest level of people to live in squalor without any protection from the ravaging monsters that now stalk the countryside. Such workers, however, appear ignorant of any danger that might befall them; I only hope that they survive long enough for the walls to encompass their districts as well. Aalban Erstwhile the Wrath Aalban always was a militaristic country that was ruled by the great prince Jagger von Drachenfels, the powerful mage who also was placed as the head of the Glantrian Army, personally leading the first (magical) banner of the great army. However, his militaristic ways were curbed by the understanding nature of his wife, Gertrud. Another fantastic enigma that I found most interesting was the complex mechanical devices that were so common in this land to aid in life. Such inventions were not nearly as advanced as a gnome's inventions, of course. Since the Wrath After the great upheaval in the land, Gertrud died and there was no one to stay the violent nature of the prince. The number of people forced into military servitude has raised sharply, and most of the mechanical devices have become offensive in nature. Such people now seem concerned with defense against all side, even allies like Wendar. Their anxious nature has caused the men and women to feel a seething enmity towards anyone related to their age old enemies, those of Ethengar, especially the principalities of Bramya and Krondahar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:06:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants First: I love your description of the city! Thank you! Unfortunately, I can't take the credit for the writing this time, but I do hope that people liked my idea, to adapt that particular passage for Minrothad. :-) >>But I do have a few questions... >>Would such a ship be seaworthy? I thought that round-bottomed ships rode much better on the open sea. OTOH I suppose you could attribute this to the arcane craft of the sea elves. >>How can this be? If all deposits are held in trust, then there is no pool of money available for lending. Well, I wish that I could elaborate on this, but these are real events taken from a brief Dutch history, as written my Murat in the book listed. I merely adapted the thing wholesale. Obviously, the boats and the financial system worked, as the Netherlads became the richest country in the world in the seventeenth century. I don't know much of their history; perhaps one of the Dutch members of this list could contact you privately. OTOH, if you want to find a reason for why it works IYC, then yes, you can attribute the vessels to the "arcane craft of the sea elves." Sorry I couldn't be of more help. :-) Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:34:11 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > But I thought about "Wishes". And don't argue with the wisdom. > There should be enough level 36 spellcaster with enough INT/WIS > to raise the other, and don't forget, that it was a really big threat > for the country. The spellcaster themselves were endangered too, > but they seem to have locked themselves in their castles, towers > and houses. I don't know how you handle wishes, but I sure set severe restrictions on them. Any cleric wishing just once a day is certainly asking his/her patron for severe penalties IMC. I don't think that Wish is just another spell for the character to fire at whatever problem crops up... I don't know if this is the "wisdom" you didn't want me arguing... Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #177 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 178 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - New to list RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants Re: [MYSTARA] - New to list Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - New to list Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:16:39 +0100 From: Alan Robichaud Subject: [MYSTARA] - New to list Hi I just joined and had a question Does anyone have or know where I could buy or download a copy of the D&D Battlesystem of War Machine rules? Also the same question about the Gazetteers? Thanks Alan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:20:44 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants > Well, I wish that I could elaborate on this, but these are real events > taken from a brief Dutch history, as written my Murat in the book > listed. I merely adapted the thing wholesale. Obviously, the boats and > the financial system worked, as the Netherlads became the richest > country in the world in the seventeenth century. I don't know much of > their history; perhaps one of the Dutch members of this list could > contact you privately. OTOH, if you want to find a reason for why it > works IYC, then yes, you can attribute the vessels to the "arcane > craft of the sea elves." Sorry I couldn't be of more help. :-) No, that is very helpful. Guess I need to make a trip to the library! Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:54:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New to list Hi, and welcome to the MML! The War Machine Rules are available on my page, at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/warmachine.html As for out-of-print products, I like to do business at the Hit Pointe http://www.hitpointe.com ...Others prefer Dragon's Trove at http://www.dragontrove.com Other links can be found at stan's site, http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304 , which is also the official MML archives site. Happy hunting! Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:55:07 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara > In Mystara Space there is different gravity, less air, and lots of > cold. The wayI convert the two of them is not to convert them. If you > have read any of the Spelljammer stuff it is accepted that there are > some pretty odd things in Wildspace.....why not a sphere that has > different laws of fantasy physics? This would explain why there are no > known records of Spelljammer incursions into Mystara. They would enter > the sphere, the lower decks would get tossed about, they would lose all > their air, and turn into spelljammer-cicles :) Ships leaving Mystara > would only have to deal with the gravity issue and the fact that they > travel so slow compared to spelljamming ships. Really?? I thought that the spelljammers were incredibly slow compared to voidships - at least at interplanar speed. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:29:47 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New to list >Hi > >I just joined and had a question > >Does anyone have or know where I could buy or download a copy of the D&D >Battlesystem of War Machine rules? > >Also the same question about the Gazetteers? > >Thanks >Alan New to the list, eh? Ha! You can't fool us, you're Gareth! Reasoning? Since we don't know who you are, you must be unknown, and if you're unknown, you're Gareth, until proven otherwise. In a slightly less whimsical tone, willkommen, bienvenue, welcome. Gazetteers can be rather difficult to find, unlike certain modules, say, X1 Isle of Dread. Ylaruam, Ierendi, Northern Reaches, Darokin, Ethengar, and Atruaghin, as well as Creature Crucibles 2-4 are available straight from Wizards of the Coast: go to www.tsrinc.com and select "Online Store". They range from 7.95 to 10.95. Also at the TSR site, the text of GAZ13 The Shadow Elves, for free. As for the others, try www.ebay.com for auctions; you can probably pick up most of the others, although if you find Minrothad (the only one I don't have), I'll be very unhappy. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:38:48 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Troop movements > I don't know how you handle wishes, but I sure set severe > restrictions on them. Any cleric wishing just once a day is certainly > asking his/her patron for severe penalties IMC. I don't think that > Wish is just another spell for the character to fire at whatever > problem crops up... I don't know if this is the "wisdom" you didn't > want me arguing... > > Jacob Skytte You said it: IYC! I refer only to the rules, the whole rules and nothing but the rules. And according to these rules, a level 36 cleric with a wisdom of 18 (and likewise the wizards) can use "Wish" and in such a desperate situation it would be VERY appropiated (with the exception of such guys as Alphaks' clerics, of course). But nobody did it. Hell, all those spellcaster could even "wish" to be immune to the disease (what they probably did!) so that they could have fought against the disease without any danger. Very egoistic people, I say! They are really resembling to Alphatian nobles... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:41:31 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > I agree, not unless they got there through deception. If a paladin or an > avenger started whacking members of the Grand Council, it would be called > "murder". Have you got this impression? If yes, it would be absolutely wrong. A paladin or avenger with a wisdom of 13+ is a spellcaster and he is a noble. So he is subject to the law about challenges. And when those MGCs ask to be killed it is no wonder that an avenger fulfills their wish. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:45:59 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > Bah. > > A good mage (36th level) can dispatch any fighter. Creative use of the > contingency spell. Not necessary! It's a good spell, but no match for a level 36 fighter with special fighting abilities, spells like a level 12 cleric and probably masses of magical items. Some good "Wishes" might help though... > I personally don't want any non-MU's in my campaign's Grand council. I'm sure that there are many Alphatian wizards who have the same opinion. Some of them even wish to have a cleric-free Grand Council. OTOH in the real world some U.S. Republicans wish to get rid of a distinct Democratic president... Jamuga Khan "You cannot always get what you want - especially in the politic." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 01:39:15 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > I refer only to the rules, the whole rules and nothing but the rules. *bore* Rules are a servant to the Story and the World. There are no rules complete enough to run a completely logical world. If you hold rules superior to the DM or to a world-builder, your players gain a weapon too strong to use against you. Wish cast by an Immortal costs permantent power (IIRC). Thus it would seem logical that supplying such power to a mortal follower would cost approximately the same. IMC there are very few C36:s. Alas, the developers overfilled te DotE with 36:s; are there any such characters in any other book? There is not a single M36 in Glantri, not a single E36 in either Shadowelves' territories or Alfheim. No F36, T36 or C36 in Karameikos... > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." Shall we reform: "Read and obey, because the Mighty Rules' words are law!" - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:50:55 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics I'm not sure what law you are referring to. The only duels that happen, are those between mages in the safety of a duel shield. No one ever said anyone was free to start swinging a sword at a spellcaster. A very unlikely prospect at best. Jamuga Khan wrote: > > I agree, not unless they got there through deception. If a paladin or an > > avenger started whacking members of the Grand Council, it would be called > > "murder". > > Have you got this impression? If yes, it would be absolutely wrong. > A paladin or avenger with a wisdom of 13+ is a spellcaster and he > is a noble. So he is subject to the law about challenges. > > And when those MGCs ask to be killed it is no wonder that an > avenger fulfills their wish. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:52:12 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Really, I think your political comment below is unnecessary, irrelevant to the topic, and irrelevant to any Mystara discussion. Please keep your opinions about American, or any other real world controversial issue, off the list. Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Bah. > > > > A good mage (36th level) can dispatch any fighter. Creative use of the > > contingency spell. > > Not necessary! It's a good spell, but no match for a level 36 fighter > with special fighting abilities, spells like a level 12 cleric and probably > > masses of magical items. Some good "Wishes" might help though... > > > I personally don't want any non-MU's in my campaign's Grand council. > > I'm sure that there are many Alphatian wizards who have the same > opinion. Some of them even wish to have a cleric-free Grand Council. > > OTOH in the real world some U.S. Republicans wish to get rid of > a distinct Democratic president... > > Jamuga Khan > > "You cannot always get what you want - especially in the politic." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 22:07:48 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Jamuga Kahn wrote: > And when those MGCs ask to be killed it is no wonder that an > avenger fulfills their wish. Whatever. I like fighters/paladins too. But they don't have a place in Alphatia. It's all an interpretational issue, but Thyatis is for fighters. Alphatia is for MUs. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:19:11 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics >> Bah. >> >> A good mage (36th level) can dispatch any fighter. Creative use of the >> contingency spell. > >Not necessary! It's a good spell, but no match for a level 36 fighter >with special fighting abilities, spells like a level 12 cleric and probably masses of magical items. Some good "Wishes" might help though... No offense, but I don't see why this debate ever continues. Arguing the relative merits of a class is one thing, but at 36th level, you simply cannot make such blanket statements. Telling me that a character is 36th level does nothing more than assure me that said character is very powerful and rare. By this point in his/her career, the charcater has likely amassed some of the most poweful magic items in existence, possibly including some artifacts, is undoubtably grand master in some weapon, or 4th/5th circle (or something similar), or something like that. At the levels that are being debated, each character is so unique and individual that statements such as "Class X and beat Class B hands down," are irrational in the extreme. To state whether a particular 36th level paladin can defeat a particular 36th level magic-user can only be determined by carefully reviewing the characters, their equipment, retainers, other forces at their disposal, et c., to say nothing of the importance of tactics; a better strategy than your opponent's is the surest way to insure victory. Really, the only way to judge how well one character will do against another is to actually pit them against each other. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:58 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Ottone di Sfonti Ottone was already 70-years-old, when he was proclaimed as a new leader of the Kerendan faction. He waa a cousin of Giuseppe and had followed him with his younger brother Massimo from the Alasiyan lands in AC 728. Ottone was a reclusive mage who had only taken part in politics when he had been helping young Corrado after Giuseppe's death. After Corrado's death he moved to Sirecchia where he built a tower for himself. Ottone had been handsome when young, but now he was bald, clean shaven, stooped old man. He had never been married and had no children. He was also as cynical as Giuseppe has been, uncaring and somewhat unscrupulous. He had waken to Carlo's dealings only after his brother's death in AC 776. Matteo fled to Sirecchia and told about his father's and mother's deaths in the hand of assassins and how he had barely escaped. They planned carefully their attack to Carlo. Matteo travelled to get promise of support from Joachim von Drachenfels and Titus Glantri. When that was obtained Ottone declared that Carlo was unfit to rule and Matteo led troops to Oreggiano. After Carlo's death Ottone declared Matteo as his heir and went back to Sirecchia. He left most of the ruling to Matteo and interfered only in the most important things, like relations with the allies. Ottone was actually satisfied when it seemed that Joachim couldn't provoke Flaems to attack. He was happy with his magical experiments and was afraid that war might interfere with them. When the war broke up in AC 784 he however honoured his promises and gave his support to Joachim. Ottone gave actually all his troops to Joachim, because both he and Matteo weren't actually warleaders. Ottone stayed whole war in Sirecchia whereas Matteo was with Joachim and Titus in war field as an advisor and negotiator. Ottone only left Sirecchia in AC 788 immediately after hearing Joachim's sudden death. He took some part of the negotiations after reaching Braastar, but because of his advanced age he mostly left them to Matteo. He tried to warn others about the dangers of overlooking Halzunthram, he had from the first seen through him, but others didn't care his warnings. After Halzunthram's coup Ottone let everyone know that he had been right. But on the other hand he didn't much care, it was same for him who ruled the country if there was a peace. Ottone submitted to coup and went back to Sirecchia as a viscount. Ottone left ruling again to Matteo and went back to his experiments. Ottone didn't leave his tower never again. He died in his bed in AC 795 at the age of 88. In that time most of the residents of Oreggiano had already forgotten that he, not Matteo, was their Viscount. Matteo di Sfonti Matteo was 40-years-old when he became a leader of his people also nominally. He had been real leader already nearly twenty years because Ottone had left nearly everything to him. Matteo was a quiet, unimposing man. But everyone liked him. He was friendly with the people, he was nearly everyday seen walking amongst the commoners. He has large family, five sons and two daughters. He was more like a benign merchant than a noble. It was very hard for people to imagine that Matteo had killed Carlo di Sfonti 20 years earlier. When Matteo became a viscount he had already been negotiating with the rebel Flaems and in 796 he switched with Titus Glantri to their side. At first he tried to lead his troops against the Hattian troops but he soon realised that he was not a warleader. He left the leadership of the troops to his eldest son Galeazzo, who show himself to be a good leader. Matteo concentrated on keeping the rebel alliance together and trying to get new allies to them. He send envoys to the elves, Ethengarians and Kaelics and to Morphail Gorevitch-Woszlany. He personally tried to persuade d'Ambreville's to join the rebels. Negotiations took years and in the end he succeeded persuade only the Ethengarians join the rebels in 801. In AC 802 combined rebel forces attacked to Braejr and might have conquered it if only Hadriana Glantri hadn't left his positions to attack Hattians in the north. This rashness of Hadriana nearly destroyed the alliance. Matteo had a busy time trying to ensure the Ethengarians and the Flaems, who had got the most of the beating, that no one hadn't betrayed. He was so furious to Hadriana that he called his own troops to come back. He had given them to Hadriana's command in 801. His son Galeazzo however refused the command and stayed with Hadriana with the troops. During this time Matteo also removed his family from Oreggiano to the more secure Sirecchia. In 804 he also again contacted don Fernando de Belcadiz after the dwarves had joined Halzunthram. He realised that this was the best time to approach the elves again. It took however two years to convince the elves to join the rebels. Galeazzo came back to Sirecchia in the end of 805. He had managed to escape with some of his men from the disastrous battle of Vorstadt. He had followed Hadriana some way to Wendar, but then decided to turn back and go to Sirecchia. Matteo took him back with open arms, he didn't mention his disobedience in any way. But Galeazzo had to submit to the command of Alexander Glantri now. Matteo had raised Alexander like his own son since Hadriana had left him to Sirecchia in 801. Alexander was more capable in military matters than Matteo´s own younger sons, so he had been clear choice. After AC 806 Matteo was always in some journey to negotiate with the other leader of the allies or trying to obtain new allies for the rebels. He tried tried for many occasions to persuade d'Ambreville's, but they were adamant in their refusal to take any part of the fighting. For some reason also Halzunthram honoured their neutrality. Kaelics were other group that always refused to take part. They stayed in their mountain fastnesses. Hadriana Glantri had returned to the warfield in 811 with Wendarian and Boldavian troops. After couple of years Matteo began to sense that there was something terrible wrong. It was however only in AC 818 than he got his suspicions confirmed. There had been some hints, Hadriana and his troops only fought and travelled in night time, they were unusually efficient and ferocious and so on. It was his most difficult task ever to told about his findings to Alexander Glantri and then to convince him that he is telling the truth. When Alexander had met his mother, he at last believed Matteo. They then destroyed Hadriana and dispersed his troops. They told to others only that Hadriana had died without any explanations. Major break came when envoys of Wilhelm von Drachenfels contacted Don Fernando de Belcadiz in AC 813. Matteo and most of the others took it as a hoax, but Alexander Glantri and don Fernando persuaded them to take it seriously. After some years even Matteo recognised Wilhelm's sincerity. There went however seven years before Wilhelm switched side openly. After this war began to go against Halzunthram. He had to bring again more troops from Alphatia. In 822 travelling cost at last Matteo his life. Alphatian troops captured himn, when he was returning from Linden where he had been negotiating with the Flaems. Matteo was promptly executed for high treason. He was 67-years old. Galeazzo di Sfonti Matteo was succeeded as Viscount by his 45-years old son Galeazzo. He was already tired man, he had seen war since he was 11 and been in war since he was 18. 27-years of war had clearly left their mark on him. He was grim, humourless, bitter man, who lacked his fathers intelligence. He was bitter for his father for putting Alexander Glantri before him. He probably was better warrior than Alexander, but he lacked totally his charisma. He was blunt, rude and only his wife and son made him smile. Even his brothers were afraid of him. He was however steady, upright, fair and square with his rulings. He was killed in the battle of the Fourty-years war. When Alexander's troops finally in 828 find the headquarters of Halzunthram, Galeazzo was among the first to die. He was 51-years old. Azzo di Sfonti Galeazzo's son Azzo was 27-years old when his father died. He was more cultivated than his father, his mother had taken care of that. He had not been taken in any part of the fighting. His father had wanted to spare him from his own unhappy years. Azzo was confirmed as a Viscount of Sirecchia by the House of Lords in 829. He was not very interested in parliament matters and let his uncle Lucchino to represent him. He spent his time mostly in hunting and parting with his relatives. Azzo was however interested in literature and he managed to collect very sizeable library to Sirecchia. Azzo was very much liked by people and it was a quite a shock when the wild boar killed him in AC 834 in the age of 33. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:02:19 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 2 Invasions and Early Kingdoms (2400 through 1700 BC) In 2400 BC the moderately peaceful lifestyle of the Oltec Savages was destroyed by the invasion of clans of Bronze Age Antalians and Neathar, who came from Norwold via the Helskir Land Bridge. The Antalians were fleeing the invasions of the Nentsun from far-away Skothar, and the Neathar were fleeing the depredations of the Beastmen of Urzud. The Antalians and Neathar that migrated to the Dawn Territories brought with them numerous clans of Faerie Folk, including Alfar (a.k.a. Sidhe), Sprites, and Pixies among others. These beings eventually mingled with the Giants, Elves and Spirits. It is only through the influence of the Giants, Elves, Spirits and Faeries that the Antalians and Neathar did not conquer the entirety of the Dawn Territories. The Antalians and Neathar were limited to settlement of the lands north of the Kendach Plateau. Over the next two hundred years, under the sponsorship and active participation of the Giant/Elf/Spirit/Faerie alliance, the Antalian and Neathar clans assimilated the northern clans of Oltec Savages and the merged Antalian/Neathar/Oltec culture evolved and swiftly diverged from its antecedents Not all of the Giants, Elves and Faeries agreed with the creation of the new Human society, or even with the basis of the alliance of the Giants, Elves, Faeries and Spirits. In 2300 BC, during the formation of the new Human society, this group of dissident Giants, Elves and Faeries, led by the Fomor Clan of Giants, migrated west across the Hardangar Isthmus. There they allied with the Necromancer-Kings of Taymor, and learned the darker ways of magic and power. Also during this period, the plains and deserts east of the Great Escarpment had become home to an isolated race of Giants that had evolved from the Giants of Gandhar. The Hunakoi, red-skinned cousins of modern Stone Giants, had built their kingdom in these lands, called Hunak. They revered the Sollux, and Tarastia was their Patron Immortal. They built huge stone monuments to their Patron Immortal, some of which survive to this day. By 2200 BC, the combined Antalian/Neathar/Oltec people had evolved a new language, culture and society; they called themselves the Dunael, which was simply "The People", in the Dunael language. They were a Bronze Age society, led by warrior-chieftains and ruled by a caste of Druids and Bards. They followed the ways of the Spirits and Faeries, but revered the Immortals as well, most notably Dana (Terra), Danoia (Djaea), Cernuinn (Faunus) and Arduinn (Diulanna). [The culture and language that evolved among the Dunael was closely related to that of the Neathar of the High Plains, on the mainland to the west (ancestors of the Traldar). Their culture also was related to the cultures of other Oltec/Neathar tribes of the Midlands, from which the peoples of Robrenn are descended]. In 2200 BC an army of Fomorian Giants, Elves and Faeries invaded the lands of the Dunael via the Hardangar Isthmus. Finnegar, the Chieftain of the most powerful clan of the Dunael, led the battle against the Fomorian Horde. Backed by groups of Human warriors from Taymor and armed with Taymoran wizardry, the Fomorians and Taymorans attempted to gain a foothold in the Dawn Territories. The Dunael united for the first time under Finnegar and allied with Giants, Elves, Spirits and Faeries from the Otherworld. Together they were able to throw the Fomorians back across the Hardangar Isthmus. After his victory Finnegar became the first High King of the Dunael. He also created his Golden Throne high in the mountains that now bear his name [The Golden Throne of Finnegar, among other things, provides the person sitting in it with a clear view of anything within the horizon, making it perfect for watching for invading Fomorians]. Finnegar went on to become an Immortal, and is revered by the Dunael to this day. The battle with the Fomorians convinced many of the remaining Giants, Elves, Spirits and Faeries that their presence on Mystara was as much a bane as a boon to the Dunael (for the primary goal of the Fomorians was the destruction of their kindred peoples). Therefore they decided to retreat further into the Otherworld, hoping that the vengeful Fomorians would turn their rage elsewhere. A number of Giant clans, still tied more to Mystara than to the Otherworld, remained on Mystara as guardians of the Dunael. The Firbolg Clan led the Giants that remained on Mystara. They settled in the south central region of the territories, in the modern Province of Redstone, right on the "gates" to the Hardangar Isthmus. From 2200 BC through 2000 BC the Dunael and Firbolg (with assistance from their Otherworld patrons) resisted several additional attempts on the part of the Fomorians to return to the Dawn Territories. During this period the southern Oltec Savages had continued to evolve in their savage splendor. They had divided into several different tribes of peoples. In the western forests, in the shadow of the Great Escarpment were the clans of the Asieni (a people not unlike the modern Haruqua (Children of the Elk) of the modern Atruaghin Clans). The peoples of the Great Escarpment were divided into two major tribes. The Asieri were found in the plains east of the lands of the Stone Folk, while the Asuri were located in the forests of the eastern plateau. All three groups were known for their savagery and xenophobia. The Asieni revered Spirits of Forest, Meadow and Stream; the Asieri revered Elemental Spirits; and the Asuri revered Animal and Ancestor Spirits. All three groups avoided the forested region north of the Aurora River as though it was plagued, and in a sense, it was. It is said that in 2100 BC a group of Elves, fleeing from the far west, arrived in this region and built a city they name Aran. These Elves, green skinned and dark in countenance, slew or enslaved every Human they found, and used Human slaves their labor to build their kingdom. The Elves were allies of the spider-kin, and many of the arachnid species and their kindred were found in the new kingdom. [Of course, the Aran Elves were actually Aranea that had taken on Elvish form; this group revered Entropic Immortals, which was the reason for their falling out with their kindred to the west]. In 2000 BC, the Empire of Taymor destroyed itself in a cataclysmic battle between the followers of Thanatos and Nyx. The ensuing cataclysm destroyed not only the Taymoran lands, but also caused the collapse of the Helskir Land Bridge. The resulting earthquakes and upheaval destroyed much of the infrastructure of Dunael civilization. It also collapsed numerous gates between the Otherworld and Mystara. The Fomorians, fleeing the destruction of Taymor, were able to take advantage of the chaos in the Dunael territories, and conquered much of the southern lands of the Dunael, including all the lands held by the Firbolg (modern Redstone, plus East and West Portage, Kendach and southern Westrourke). They then instituted a reign of terror that decimated the Dunael under their control, which cast most of them back to Stone Age savagery. During this time they also converted many of the Firbolg to their way, and through their magical power were able to keep the Otherworldly Giants, Elves, Spirits and Faeries from regaining a foothold in Fomorian held territory. At this time another group of Taymoran refugees, mostly Human in this case, fled to the eastern side of the Isle of Dawn, where they conquered the Hunakoi Giants. They named their new kingdom Shumar, after their Necromancer-King and -Queen Shumar and Shumara (the Shumarans were Nosferatu followers of Nyx, not Vampire followers of Thanatos). Most of the Hunakoi were captured and enslaved. Those that could, fled into the Valley of the Dawn and onto the Great Escarpment, where they became allied with the local Asuri tribes, who they converted to the worship of Tarastia (they also brought the Asuri out of the stone age and into the bronze age). Also by BC 2000 it became obvious to the Dwarves, Gnomes and Stone Folk of the Dawn Territories that the Dwarven race was dying. At that time there lived a Stone Folk Philosopher known as Thinker of Deepest Form. Thinker was a great friend of the Dwarves; he was a famous builder in stone, a metal smith of legendary ability, and an unparalleled lapidary. His manner fit his name, and he thought long and hard on the Dwarven situation. Eventually, he determined that he would need to learn more on the origin of the Elder Dwarves, so he went on a great quest. With him went his Dwarven companion known only as Laughing Axe. For over 200 years the pair traveled the world in search of a way to save the Dwarven race, having many adventures in the process. Eventually they discovered that the Dwarven race had been the target of a special Technomantic Curse that had originated during the Great Rain of Fire; combined with the energies of that war, the Curse continually put the Dwarves into a genetic spiral of doom. No mortal beings on Mystara in those days had the knowledge of Technomancy to reverse the Curse, so Thinker and Laughing Axe decided to consult the Immortals. The pair was eventually able to bring the plight of the Dwarves to the attention of the Immortal Kagyar. As Kagyar felt an affinity for the Dwarves (his own race, the Brute Men, were the cousins of the Dwarven race), he decided to save the Dwarves. Upon the transformation of the Dwarven race in 1800 BC Thinker returned to the Dawn Territories, and under the sponsorship of Kagyar set out on the path to Immortality. Thinker became the first King of the High Land of the Stone Folk. The Fomorians learned the method for the smelting of iron from captured Stone Folk and Gnomes in the 18th century BC. The Fomorians achieved even more success against the Dunael and the Stone Folk with the use of this technology, but before the Fomorians could press this advantage to its maximum extent there occurred yet another invasion of the Dawn Territories from the north. In the 1720's BC, whole clans of Iron Age Norse-Antalians from Norwold took to the seas to escape the depredations of King Loark and his Great Horde. These Norse-Antalians, with their iron weapons and their battle prowess, changed the balance of power and neutralized the advantage the Fomorians held over the Dunael. While the Antalians raided both the Fomorians and the Dunael, the Fomorians were the richer targets, and thusly received the brunt of Norse-Antalian fury. Battles raged across the land for over twenty years until 1700 BC, when a great battle was fought on the Western Plains (where now stands the Dust Reaches). The Battle of Dust and Ashes raged for a week, yet not one of the three armies ever gained an advantage over the others. The Fomorians were armed with ancient Taymoran wizardry and iron weapons, while the Antalians were armed with iron weapons and grim determination, and the Dunael were armed with hearts of steel and Druidic magic, as well as what little aid they could acquire from their allies in the Otherworld. Then, during the height of a similar battle over a thousand miles away (the Elves of the glacier-haunted Highlands were resisting the attack of King Loark and his Great Horde), members of the Elven Shadowstrider Clan set off an ancient Blackmoorian Device. This Device (the Technomantic equivalent of an Atomic Bomb of massive proportions) set off a chain reaction of events, physical and mystical, that would end both conflicts and cause much death and destruction worldwide. The great cataclysm created the Dust Reaches of the Isle of Dawn. The Battle of Dust and Ashes was ended most decisively by the destruction of all three armies in the sudden and violent creation of the plateau. Very, very few Norse-Antalians, Fomorians and Dunael returned home from that battle... continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #178 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 179 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 3 [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 1 RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:03:43 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > > I refer only to the rules, the whole rules and nothing but the rules. I was going to freak out here, but it seems someone beat me to it. :) > *bore* > > Rules are a servant to the Story and the World. There are no rules > complete enough to run a completely logical world. If you hold rules > superior to the DM or to a world-builder, your players gain a weapon too > strong to use against you. Yes, yes, and yes again! > IMC there are very few C36:s. Alas, the developers overfilled te DotE > with 36:s; are there any such characters in any other book? There is not > a single M36 in Glantri, not a single E36 in either Shadowelves' > territories or Alfheim. No F36, T36 or C36 in Karameikos... Well, even with GAZ-rules and all that there still can't be an E36. E20 is stated as an (optional) alternative to E10 in the regular rules. But actually Porphyriel is E22 (I think), and has therefore broken the rules. And she is in the Shadow Elves GAZ. The only E36 I ever heard of, was my original character, and he broke all rules I ever heard of ! (well, just about, anyway) But it is true that only DotE went completely overboard with 36th- level characters. I suppose the reasons are that "ancient" empires breed higher levels. I, for one, have no idea how they manage to gain all those XP, seeing how they must have been thoroughly "plundered" and policed over and over again. Oh, I suppose the wizards conjure a few monsters now and then and slaughter them for XP. :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:03:23 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 3 Age of Chaos (1700 through 1400 BC) The destruction caused by the Blackmoorian Device in the battle between the Elven Shadowstrider Clan and the Great Horde of King Loark caused not only a great deal of physical damage throughout the Known World, it also caused an incredible amount of damage throughout the Otherworld. The mystical components that formed the Device were attuned to planar energies; unfortunately, the Device was set off at a nexus point between Mystara and the Otherworld. The reverberations between the two planes caused a shift in the points of conjunction; many gates and nexus points were lost, and many new ones created, or reinforced. This, however, was a mere side effect, and the main effect of the Device on the Otherworld was far more destructive. The explosion caused a shift in the Otherworlds' mystical relationship with the Sphere of Entropy, much to the detriment of the Otherworld and its residents. The Otherworld had until that point been derived from almost equal portions of each of the four Spheres of Life, with little or no relation to the Sphere of Entropy. With the shift in planar relation, a wave of Entropy passed throughout the Otherworld, causing whole regions of the Otherworld to burn, as though the very land itself was on fire. Whole regions of the Otherworld became wastelands, covered in naught but dust and ashes (this effect also occurred in several places on Mystara, especially those areas that were strongly attuned with the Otherworld). Quite naturally this had a negative impact on the cities and lands of the Giants, Elves, Spirits and Faeries of the Otherworld. Many were slain outright in the fires and many more were grievously injured and driven mad or turned toward Entropy. The shift also made it possible for entities from the Sphere of Entropy to enter the Otherworld, and through the Otherworld, they were able to enter Mystara. For centuries after the advent of the World Fire (as the explosion and resultant fires became known on the Spirit Plane), the native Spirits, Giants, Elves and Faeries were too busy battling the encroaching forces of Entropy to involve themselves in the battles occurring on Mystara. On Mystara, the cataclysm and resultant earthquakes caused the Hardangar Isthmus to slowly sink over a period of ten years. During this time numerous clans of Beastmen Tribes, fleeing the destruction on the mainland, migrated east over the collapsing land bridge. These hordes settled in the newly formed Dust Reaches and surrounding bogs, adding even more chaos and terror to the lands. [As a side note, for the first time in history the Dawn Territories, now cut off from the mainland, became known as the Isle of Dawn.] At the same time as the Hardangar Isthmus was collapsing, a new series of islands rose in the Western Sea of Dawn. The Ostland Isles were formed, and through a stroke of luck (or perhaps through the connivance of the Immortal Odin), the Isles were right in the midst of a series of positive nodes from the Spirit Plane. Within a few short decades the isles were populated with verdant vegetation and numerous animal species, attracted by the positive energies of the Otherworld. With the destruction of the Serpent Isle in the Sea of Dread in 1700 BC, the Over King of Nithia, Orisis, ascended from this world and became an Immortal (actually, he began the final portions of his quest for Immortality). He left control of the growing Nithian Empire in the capable hands of his son, the First Pharaoh of Nithia, Horon Ausar. For a time the energies of the Nithians were turned inward, as they developed their culture and explored their new society. By 1675 BC most of the Norse-Antalian clans that had settled on the Isle of Dawn some fifty years before returned to the mainland; however, a number of clans (the most faithful and spiritual) were guided by the Immortal Odin to settle on the new Ostland Isles. A fair number of the Norse-Antalians opted to remain on the Isle of Dawn, as they had come to view it as their homeland. These peoples became known as the Helska, after the most powerful clan of their tribe. Also at this time the Fomorians, under King Conann, allied with the newly arrived Beastmen hordes of bog and waste. With the Beastmens' assistance the Fomorians increased their oppression of their Firbolg and Dunael subjects. Most of the Firbolg naturally found this situation intolerable, and began to rebel against the Fomorians. The Dunael of the Fomorian lands continued to live in abject slavery, and much of their earlier culture and history was destroyed during this period of Giantish strife. Meanwhile, the Dunael and the Helska clans of the northern lands were occupied with internecine strife and warfare. The destruction of 1700 BC had destroyed many of the clan centers as well as the few towns they had built. The north became a patchwork of Helska and Dunael clans, with the Dunael predominating in the east and the Helska in the west. Both groups maintained their iron-age level of technology, though they continue to otherwise slip into primitive savagery [the Dunael took the "Secret of Steel" from the battlefield after the Battle of Dust and Ashes]. The Beastmen, rampaging north from the bogs and wastes at the behest of the Fomorians, continued to add more chaos to the mix. In the south, the Stone Folk and Gnomes lived on in relative peace, under the protection of the powerful forces of their Great King, Thinker. The Asieni and Asieri generally ignored the Kingdom of the High Land during this period, being more preoccupied with the darker things that crawled out of the ravaged Spirit Plane; many Asieni and Asieri clans turned to the ways of Entropy at this time. The Asuri, however, with their allies the Hunakoi Giants, took the opportunity of the chaos brought on by the cataclysm to invade the Kingdom of Shumar. They were able to single out and destroy the ruling Nosferatu, though the Human Shumarans of many towns continued to resist the attacks of the Asuri. The Kingdom of Shumara was shattered, and the plains and deserts east of the Great Escarpment became a patchwork of Shumaran, Asuri and Hunakoi tribes and city-states. The Asuri and Hunakoi built their own city, named Ashura, and by 1650 had conquered many of the Shumaran City States, and formed the Kingdom of Ashuria. In 1600 BC the Firbolg finally managed to overthrow the rule of the Fomorians and the Beastmen Tribes. The Fomorians, their earthly power shattered, at this point became totally corrupted by the forces of the Sphere of Entropy. They fled to the darker regions of the Isle of Dawn, under the seas, and into the Otherworld, where they plotted their vengeance against the Firbolg. The Firbolg proclaimed the leader of their rebellion, Parlann as their new king, and named themselves the People of Parlann and their kingdom the Land of Parlann after him. The Firbolg of Parlann controlled the Isle of Dawn from the Dust Reaches in the north to the Kendach Plateau in the south. The Human Dunael Tribes of these lands continued to be dominated by the Firbolg, and they assimilated parts of Firbolg culture. By this time, these Dunael were quite distinct in language and culture from their cousins to the north, though they still referred to themselves as Dunael [For sake of clarity, henceforth these peoples shall be referred to as the Southern Dunael, versus the Dunael of the northern, free territories]. The Fomorian allies, the Beastmen, either fled with the Fomorians to dark corners of the Otherworld or escaped to the bogs and wastes of the north. At this time they were merely normal Beastmen of the various different sub-races, with no unusual powers or prowess. Both groups, however, were not unchanged by the alliances that they made. Those Beastmen that fled with the Fomorians were changed by the nature of the energies that the Fomorians dealt with, and were altered by the dark natures of those energies. Henceforth the Beastmen allies of the Fomorians were also known as Fomorians, for they became as warped and vile as their masters. As for the second, and greater group of Beastmen that fled into the wastes of the north, they had another fate awaiting them. Hel, Dark Immortal of the North, determined that she needed servitors in the lands near to the Helska, who at this point still revered Odin. Thus, she took the most powerful of the Beastmen in the northern region of the Isle of Dawn and remade them. She fused the spirits and power of renegade Elves and Faeries from the Spirit Plane that had been warped by the World Fire and merged them with the Beastmen she favored. The result was a new race of beings, infused with the power of Chaos, the vileness of the Beastmen and the prowess of the Elves and Faeries. These creatures became known as the Drouw to the Helska, Norse and Heldann and as the Tuatha De Annwyn to the Dunael. Annwyn is the name that Hel is known under to the Dunael; it is also the name for an Entropic region of the Otherworld that lies in close conjunction with the Dunael territories. With this infusion of power, the Beastmen of the north became an even greater threat to the Helska and Dunael. Old rivalries put aside, the Humans of the north spent their days and nights combating the new, inhuman threat. The Drouw, leading hordes of unaltered Beastmen, threatened even the borders of the Kingdom of Parlann, though the Giants of that land were able to eventually push them back into the bogs and wastes. Chaos reigned in the north for centuries, the only peace in all that land being found in the land of the People of Parlann, where the Southern Dunael continued to live out their days as slaves. [The power of the Drouw waned over the millennia as the bloodlines grew weaker and their power was dispersed among the more mortal Beastmen followers, until in the modern day the Drouw of the north are of three types: Royal, Noble and Common]. In 1500 BC Thinker, the Stone Folk Great King, ascended to the ranks of the Immortals, where he became known as Thoth. The Kingdom of the High Land continued under a line of kings, picked by the Stone Folk Priesthood of Thoth. As Thoth once again enjoyed a close relationship with Orisis and the other Nithian Immortals the culture of the Stone Folk continued to evolve more along Nithian lines, so that within 100 years, there was little difference between the culture of Nithia and the culture of the Stone Folk. [Save in language, for the language of the Stone Folk continued to be their own, though the hieroglyphs used by the Stone Folk had always been the same as those used by the Nithians. Thus, though the two spoken languages were mutually unintelligible, the written word could readily be used to communicate much like Chinese in the RW]. The Stone Folk began an era of expansion, and conquered or pushed out the local Asieri tribes. Many Asieri moved into the forests of the Asuri, where they assimilated the few remaining clans of those people. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:01:04 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 1 Been kind of quiet lately, so I will use up some bandwidth to post the completed portion of my History of the Isle of Dawn... My usually warnings, provisos, etc.. not Canon, blah, blah, blah... Elder History of the Isle of Dawn (To 3000 BC) Two major civilizations were found in the Dawn Territories prior to the Great Rain of Fire in 3000 BC. The Thonian Colony of New Thonia, which was little more than a conglomerate of corporate-owned plantations worked by thousands of Oltec slaves, lay in the south. This colony consisted of most of the Dawn Territories south of Hardangar Isthmus (NOTE: the Great Escarpment did not exist at this time). The second major civilization was the Kingdom of Gandhar, a realm of Giants that had held the northernmost portion of the Dawn Territories since time immemorial. Gandhar continued a precarious existence by maintaining its neutrality and by creating a political balance of interests between the Draconian Empire, the Free Dwarven Principalities and the Kingdom of Blackmoor. There were also isolated groups of Rock Men found in the mountains that now form the shattered western edge of the Great Escarpment. After the Great Rain of Fire (3000 through 2400 BC) In 3000 BC the Great Rain of Fire destroyed the civilization of the Thonians of Blackmoor. The planet raged out of control; the Great Escarpment was thrust up, and most of the peoples of New Thonia were destroyed. The Oltec slaves slaughtered most of the surviving Thonians. Some Thonians escaped to the west and joined their brethren who later went on to found the Taymoran Empire, while others escaped to the Pleasure Islands of the south (the modern Alatian and Pearl Islands), where they eventually formed the core of the Makai culture. The Oltec slaves of the Dawn Territories reverted to a stone-age culture; they spread throughout the territories, obliterating any remnant of Thonian occupation. These folk later became known as the Oltec Savages. The Kingdom of Gandhar was also decimated by the catastrophe, and the Giants reverted to a bronze-age technology. Meanwhile, the remaining Rock Men of the Dawn Territories were affected by the energies released by the Great Rain of Fire in such a manner that they quickly began to evolve, physically and culturally. The Rock Men of the Dawn Territories were not the only beings affected by the energies of the Great Rain of Fire; the energies were of such a nature that they decimated much of the ecosystem of Mystara, and usually mutated that which they did not destroy. In order to repair the damage dealt to the ecosystem in as "natural" a manner as possible, while faster than nature would do so, the Immortals decided to bring Mystara into conjunction with an Outer Plane that was aspected with the Spheres of Life. That is, a plane that is equally aspected with the Spheres of Matter, Energy, Time, and Thought. The Spirit Plane, known as the Spirit World by the Ethengar Tribes and the Atruaghin Clans and as The Otherworld to the Dunael and their descendant peoples, was the natural choice, as it had long ago been brought into "balance" between the four Spheres of Life. [See "A Treatise Concerning the Mystaran Multiverse and Beyond", by Mystaros, Pandius Press, 965 AC]. Once the energies released by the Great Rain of Fire were purged from the Mystaran ecosystem by the Immortals, Mystara's ecology began to heal quite rapidly, as the positive energies brought through vortices and wormholes from the Spirit Plane entered into the Prime Plane. Spirits of the Spirit Plane also entered into Mystara, especially in places where the conjunction between the planes was stronger; this included most of the Dawn Territories. These Spirits eventually contacted the Oltec Savages of the Dawn Territories, and the shamanic worship of these Spirits formed the basis of the Oltec Savages' developing religion. Yet another notable event occurred in 3000 BC. Seven clans of Elves passed through the Dawn Territories en route to Brun from the ruin of Blackmoor on Skothar. Three of the Elven Clans, the Finadiel, Goristyr and Falador, remained in the Dawn Territories and settled among the remaining Giants of Gandhar, while four of the clans (the Celebryl, Porador, Felistyr and Gelbalf) continued on to the west. The Spirits of the Spirit Plane contacted the Giants and Elves for they saw in them a kindred "spirit" and love of life. A strange new society grew up between the two worlds and by 2700 BC the Elves of the three tribes had removed themselves from Mystara entirely and founded new cities in the Otherworld. Several clans of Giants had also done so by this time, most notably the Muroch clan. The four cities that were founded in the Otherworld were: Findias by the Finadiel Clan, Gorias by the Goristyr Clan, Murias by the Muroch Clan, and Falias by the Falador Clan. The movement of Elves and Giants to the Otherworld was spurred on in part by the migration of the Oltec Savages into the northern lands of the Dawn Territories. The Giants and Elves could easily have resisted any intrusion, as they were at that time not only magically more powerful, but also armed with bronze-age weaponry. However, the alliance between the Spirits, Elves and Giants would have been sorely tested by interference with the Human followers of the Spirits, especially when the Elves and Giants were more than welcomed in the Otherworld. In 2500 BC several clans of Elder Dwarves and Gnomes migrated east from the mainland across the Hardangar Isthmus, where they encountered the Giants and Elves of the north. They were made distinctly unwelcome (ancient enmities die hard) and retreated to the south, where they settled on and in the Great Escarpment among the newly-emerging Stone Folk, who were the descendants of the mutated Rock Men. The Dwarves and the Gnomes were naturally very attracted to the region that the Stone Folk resided in, as it was replete with all manner of precious metals and gems. In those days one could hardly step anywhere in the region without stumbling over a pile of gold nuggets or rough gemstones. Thus, with plenty and to spare, the Stone Folk welcomed the Dwarves and Gnomes to their Land. The Stone Folk learned civilized ways from the two peoples, including all manners of crafts. The Stone Folk eventually excelled their teachers in stone carving and gem cutting, as they were closer to the nature of these things than either the Dwarves or Gnomes. The Dwarves and Gnomes in turn prospered from what the Stone Folk could teach them about the ways of earth and stone. 2500 BC also marked the foundation of the Empire of Taymor on the mainland to the west. Necromancer-Kings ruled the Empire under the leadership of their overlord, the Eternal Emperor of Taymor, who ruled from the City of Night, Colhador on Hadas. By this time the Oltec Savages had settled over the entirety of the Dawn Territories, even in the north, among the Giants and Elves. The Oltec Savages built huge earthen mounds that were designed as centers for worship, as well as for the burial sites of the clan chiefs and shamans. They carved huge animal-shaped forms in the earth at points at which the space between Mystara and the Otherworld was "weak" (i.e., Planar Nodes); these were centers of worship for the totem animal in question. They also erected huge menhirs and stone circles at the major loci of these mystical points, in vague imitation of their tales about ancient Oltec pyramids. The Oltec Savages were still in the Stone Age however, and had little reason to "advance" technologically, as population was still relatively light and widespread. They also had little competition, with the exception of the Stone Folk and the new population of Dwarves and Gnomes, whom the Oltec Savages gave wide berth. continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:43:23 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Minrothad Merchants Fluits were 100 to 115 feet long, sometimes even 125 feet (a feet in Amsterdam at that time was 28,3 cm). The fluits weighed between 200 and 400 tons. They were round-bottomed, carried a lot of cargo and didn't need a large crew to sail it. Fluiten (plural) were even used to for whalehunting in North Russian seas. It was a real multi-purpose ship. The "fluit" was invented approx. 1595. At that time Holland blocked the "Schelde" the only way for ships to reach the harbour of Antwerp (which belonged to Spain at that time;1585). The merchants and shipowners of Antwerp moved to cities in Holland, which were 'blooming' already at that time. Ships from Holland sailed to England, France, Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia. Even though Holland and Spain were in a state of war, Dutch ships sailed to Spanish ports. Sometimes ships were confiscated, but most of the time they were left unharmed... Anyway, that's what I could find about the "fluit", no pictures (yet, can't mail 'em to this list anyway). Hope this helps. Cheers, Kristian Kramer If you want to know more, mail me off the list. > >>But I do have a few questions... > > >>Would such a ship be seaworthy? I thought that round-bottomed ships > rode much better on the open sea. OTOH I suppose you could attribute > this to the arcane craft of the sea elves. > > >>How can this be? If all deposits are held in trust, then there is no > pool of money available for lending. > > Well, I wish that I could elaborate on this, but these are real events > taken from a brief Dutch history, as written my Murat in the book > listed. I merely adapted the thing wholesale. Obviously, the boats and > the financial system worked, as the Netherlads became the richest > country in the world in the seventeenth century. I don't know much of > their history; perhaps one of the Dutch members of this list could > contact you privately. OTOH, if you want to find a reason for why it > works IYC, then yes, you can attribute the vessels to the "arcane craft > of the sea elves." Sorry I couldn't be of more help. :-) > > Jenn > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ================================================================ De informatie verzonden met dit E-mail bericht is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Gebruik van deze informatie door anderen dan de geadresseerde is verboden. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding en/of verstrekking van deze informatie aan derden is niet toegestaan. Comsys staat niet in voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden E-mail bericht, noch voor tijdige ontvangst daarvan. Evenmin kan Comsys worden gebonden door de eventuele acceptatie van een vermeend aanbod in een verzonden E-mail bericht. The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. 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Comsys can never be legally bound by the acceptance of any supposed offer in an electronic message. ================================================================ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:04:43 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - History of the Isle of Dawn Part 4 The Middle Kingdoms Era (1400 through 900 BC) Meanwhile, on the mainland, the Nithian Colonies west of the Altan Tepes failed by 1400 BC. The Ptahr-Al-Dar Clan, which led the colonization effort and assimilated the native tribes and the combined peoples then became known as the Traldar. The Traldar regressed to a bronze-age level of technology, characterized by cyclopean architecture, city-states and warrior-kings. Denied further colonies on the mainland by the bellicose Traldar, the Nithians began to explore the Isle of Dawn. Their first colony was Ausarnak, founded in 1400 BC at the mouth of the River of Skulls. Ausarnak became the first center for the Nithian slave trade, as they captured many of the native Asieni for use as slaves on the mainland. Nithian efforts to conquer any part of the Land of the People of Parlann failed miserably, however, some intermittent trade did occur between the two nations. The Kingdom of Laticas (modern Laticea) was founded around this time by Traldar allies of the Nithians of Ausarnak, and represented the only major independent colonization effort of the Traldar outside the mainland for the next 400 years. Lack of further colonization by the Traldar was due mostly to the fact that the Latican Traldar held a monopoly on Traldar trade on the Sea of Dread outside the Traldar Isles, thanks to their Nithian alliance. Also around this time the Helskan tribes underwent a cultural revolution. The many clans and tribes were becoming organized into a series of kingdoms, each under the leadership of a single noble clan. The Helskan Kingdoms each warred with one another as often as they warred with the Drouw and the Dunael, but they usually were able to cooperate when faced with the concerted efforts of their enemies. This was through the influence of Alfar from the mainland, a group of Otherworldly Sidhe who foresaw the danger implicit in the Drouw threat; they knew that should the Drouw successfully conquer and eliminate the Helska that the mainland and Ostlander Norse would be next on Hel's list. So the Alfar, under the guidance of Frey and Freyja, assisted the Helska with magical and military aid. They were responsible for the creation of the series of Ley Lines built across the northern reaches of the Isle of Dawn. These Ley Lines, which tapped into the power of the Spirit Plane, were used for magical communication and travel as well as for the augmentation of magical spells (these Ley Lines are connected to the network of Ley Lines found in the Northern Reaches and Norwold). They also established a class of Helskir Magicians, who were taught the ways of Faerie Magic and the use of the Ley Lines; these Magicians were the advisors of the various kings and nobles of the Helskan Kingdoms. The Dunael also received Otherworldly aid at this time. Groups of Elves, Faeries and Spirits contacted various peoples of the Dunael and instructed them in the advanced ways of magic and war. Recognizing their common goal, these Elves, Faeries and Spirits formed an alliance, called the Seelie Court, which was organized to assist the Dunael against the Tuatha De Annwyn. The members of the Seelie Court felt that if the Tuatha De Annwyn should conquer the Dunael of the Isle of Dawn, they would have an open path to invade the uncorrupted regions of the Otherworld. The Seelie Court, being of a more chaotic nature than the Alfar of the Helska, did not have any great organizing influence on the Dunael. Rather, the Dunael continued to be as clannish and disorganized as before, though they were better empowered to deal with the threat posed by the Tuatha De Annwyn. By the middle of the 14th century BC, it seemed as though evil and chaos were on the defensive across the Isle of Dawn. The Helska were effectively counterattacking the Drouw threat, as were the Dunael to the east. The People of Parlann ruled a peaceful if oppressive kingdom in the middle of the isle. And the Entropy-dominated Oltec Savages of the southern reaches were on the run from the forces of Order, represented by the Stone Folk and the Ashurians, with their Hunakoi allies. Then, in 1350 BC, a plague struck the Firbolg. Less than one in ten of the People of Parlann survived the plague, though the other races of the Isle were unaffected. The remaining Firbolg battled each other, each clan blaming the other for the plague (suspicions were sown by the Fomorians, who were the real progenitors of the plague). Chaos ruled among the Firbolg for decades, and the Fomorians began moving into the power vacuum. The hopes of the Fomorians were dashed, however, in 1300 BC when King Nemmu-Ptahr of the Nithians invaded the lands of the People of Parlann with a massive host (which included no small numbers of Traldar mercenaries). The Nithians conquered the lands readily, as the plague and civil war had devastated the Firbolg. The majority of the remaining Firbolg fled into the hills, wastes and plateaus of the southern lands. Some fled into the Otherworld and joined their brethren. The Southern Dunael folk, expecting better treatment from other Humans, were sorely disappointed upon the founding of the Nithian Kingdom of Ptahrmonak. The rule of the Nithians ended up being even harsher than that of the Firbolg. Nithian rule over the area was never very solid, however, as they were continually resisted by Fomorians, Firbolg and the Southern Dunael. The rule of the Nithians, garbled through years of tales told around the campfire and the interference of the Immortals, is regarded by the modern Aran as the Reign of the Nemedians, the people of King Nemed (King Nemmu-Ptahr). The Nithians of the kingdom of Ptahrmonak are referred to as Nemedians in many chronicles. Actually, the Nemedians were properly a mixture of Nithians and Traldar, as the Nithian invasion had been facilitated with large numbers of Traldar mercenaries, most of whom settled down and stayed in Ptahrmonak/Nemedia. Also at this time the Nithians once again came into contact with the Stone Folk of the High Land, through the colony of Ausarnak. The Stone Folk were slow to open themselves and their lands to the Imperial Nithians, even though their cultures were very similar. The Nithians, with their ancient tales of Thoth and his peoples, regarded the land of the Stone Folk as the ancient, mythical land of O-Ptahr, known as the Kingdom of Gold. Wisely, the Nithians chose to ally with the Stone Folk rather than attempt to conquer them. The Nithians traded various finished products and unusual minerals in return for gold and precious gems. Riches from the trade with O-Ptahr poured into the treasuries of the Nithian Pharaohs, which fueled further exploration and colonization. The Firbolg that fled to the Otherworld after the Nemedian conquest were not idle during this period. During the century following the conquest by the Nithians, the Firbolg drew together an alliance with the Spirits, Elves, Faeries and Giants of the Otherworld. The express purpose of this alliance: the re-conquest of the lands once held by the Giants, Elves, Faeries and Spirits in elder days (which included the lands of Ptahrmonak, the Helska and the Dunael). In order to perfect the alliance, the Firbolg agreed to the inclusion of the Southern Dunael in the alliance. For it was the belief of their Otherworldly allies that the Humans were originally under their protection, and by this time had culturally evolved to the point where they should be treated as equals. This mixed group of beings became known as the Tuatha De Danoia, the "Children of Danoia". The Immortal Danoia, revered by both the Giants and the Dunael, was the Patron Immortal of the group and it's cause. In 1200 BC the Tuatha De Danoia elected Nuada, a Giant of the Otherworld, to be King of the Tuatha De Danoia. The alliance spent over a century plotting, calculating and gathering allies before making its first move. In 1100 BC Nuada and his followers placed a stronghold in Mystara atop the Kendach Plateau. Said in myth and legend to have been built in a single day, the fortress was actually assembled in the Otherworld and transported whole to Mystara. Nuada named the fortress Caer Tiarchnach, "Regal Castle" (bastardized over the centuries into the modern "Kendach"). Though the transfer of the citadel was secret and known only to the members of the alliance, a mysterious figure stood at the gate even before it had fully appeared in Mystara. This being, which claimed to be a Wizard named Mystaros, was quickly brought in to confer with King Nuada. Whatever passed between the King and the Wizard at that time, no one knows, however, Mystaros joined the ranks of the Tuatha De Danoia before the end of that day. During this time there were few major events elsewhere on the Isle of Dawn. The only event of note was the Latican War. This war was fought between the Traldar of the Kingdom of Mesonias and the Kingdom of Laticas, and lasted from 1190 BC through 1150 BC. The Nithians did not become involved in this war for several reasons, foremost of which was that they did not care which side won. The Traldar had been a thorn in the side of the Nithians since they had severed cultural ties with their motherland, and the Nithians were more than pleased to see the best of the Traldar fall under each other's blades. Also, while the ostensible cause of the war was yet another wife-stealing noble of the Traldar, the actual issue was the control of the Traldar trade from the Isle of Dawn, and again, the Nithians didn't really care either way, as they would still get their cut. The Laticans and Mesonians decimated the Traldar social and economic infrastructure over their forty-year war. In the end, the Laticans were destroyed, mostly because the Mesonians were able to bring their various allies from the mainland into the fray, notably, all of the cities that Laticas had gouged at one time or another. The mainland Traldar cities were also devastated, and thus were easier prey for the legions of the Pharaoh. These side effects had grave consequences for the Traldar in the next century. Several of the Traldar kingdoms fell to the Nithians by 1100 BC (Horonak, the modern city of Harbortown, was founded by the Nithians at this time), and the Kingdom of Mesonias itself fell to the Nithians in 1040 BC. The Nithians founded yet another colony on the Isle of Dawn in 1100 BC. This time a great fleet, sponsored by the leading clans of the Nithian city of Thothis (seat of the Nithian Priesthood of Thoth), rounded the southern expanse of the Isle of Dawn and landed among the tribes and cities of the Shumarans, Ashurians and Hunakoi. The forces of that region could not resist the power of the Thothite forces, and city state and tribe fell to the Nithians. By year's end, the Nithian colonial Kingdom of Thothia was well and strongly founded, with only the Kingdom of Ashuria standing in the way of Nithian dominion. Within 10 years time the Nithians reduced and conquered Ashuria and the Hunakoi were again pushed to the east. The Shumarans and Ashurians were enslaved, and eventually assimilated into the Thothian culture. By 1000 BC the Nithians had grown to a level of power and civilization the world had not seen since the days of Blackmoor. The Nithians were occupied with many projects, foremost of which was the colonization of the Southern Continent, including the war against the ancient Serpentine Empire, and the relocation of their slave servitors, the Nuari. The Nithians also assisted the migration of the Alphatians from their world to Mystara. During this time the Nithians were still occupied with their numerous and various dynastic and religious conflicts as well as the exploration of the ruins of Blackmoor on Skothar. There were also other issues diverting Nithian attention: the Beastmen Invasion and the Traldar Migration being most noteworthy. Imperial Nithian power was strong, but spread very thin. Taking advantage of this situation, the Southern Dunael, led by the Tuatha De Danoia, pushed the Nemedians out of the eastern portions of Ptahrmonak, on a line nearly equating the modern border between Thyatian and Alphatian territory. As the Nemedian clans were followers of the Immortal Ptahr, and the Priesthood of Ptahr was on the losing side of the last dynastic struggle, little help was forthcoming from the Empire (which was ruled at the time by the Seventh Dynasty, Amonite). King Balor, leader of the Fomorians after the death of King Conann, decided to ally his people with the much-reduced Nemedians against the Tuatha De Danoia and Southern Dunael, but to little effect. The Tuatha De Danoia were joined at a pivotal moment in this series of battles by the mysterious and multitalented Leugh (believed by many to have been the Traldar hero Zirchev on his path toward Immortality). As mentioned above, the Traldar of the mainland were nearly destroyed at this time in a great war with the Beastmen. Many of the Traldar fled by sea, a large group of which was lead by King Milen of the City-State of Marlenas (modern Specularum). The Traldar who fled by sea became known in general as Milenians, after that Great King. Many of these Milenians settled in the Nithian colonies on the Isle of Dawn, where they obliterated or assimilated the last remnants of the Asieni, or on the Alatian Islands, where they assimilated the native Makai peoples. The Traldar founded a number of city-states during this era. These cities included Daropolis (modern West Portage), Heliopolis (modern East Portage), the former with the approval of the Nemedians, the latter with the approval of the Tuatha De Danoia, as well as Trikelios and Ekto (the last two having been settled by large numbers of Nemedians, as well). A small group of Traldar was shipwrecked on the modern Isle of Ochalea, where they eventually assimilated the native Oltec Savages and formed the barbarian Dairu culture. The main body of Milenians, of course, continued on to the Southern Continent, where they eventually built their own empire. Also in 1000 BC the Alphatians arrived on the continent to the east, assisted in their migration by the Nithians. For the first several centuries after landfall the Alphatians were too busy building their own kingdoms on that continent to think of interfering with the events on the Isle of Dawn, but during this time several groups of Alphatians, notably Common Alphatians, sought their fortunes on the Isle of Dawn. Generally, these minor colonies were absorbed and assimilated by the local peoples. This was often the case among the Dunael, who absorbed a large number of Common Alphatians into their culture, and the Thothians, who did so to a lesser extent. In 900 BC King Balor of the Fomorians was able to persuade the Pharaoh Amon Harakhate, ninth and last Pharaoh of the Amonite Dynasty, to sponsor an invasion of the lands of the Tuatha De Danoia. With a levy of thousands, and thousands of mercenary troops, the Pharaoh himself arrived at Daropolis to lead the war. The Pharaoh and King had underestimated the valor and power of the Tuatha De Danoia, however, and the battle quickly went against the Nithians and Fomorians. The war lasted for seven years; the Pharaoh himself was grievously wounded in battle in 895 BC, after which he withdrew to return to the mainland (he was deposed shortly thereafter). Most Imperial support for the war, and for Nemedia in general, dried up after that time, as the new Dynasty (the Eighth Dynasty, Ranite) had other goals. Eventually, the Tuatha De Danoia pushed the Nithians, Nemedians and Fomorians back into the core of the lands of Nemedia, where they fought the pivotal Second Battle of Neagh Flats [the First Battle of Neagh Flats was fought during the war between the Firbolg and the Fomorians, ca. 1325 BC]. Many chiefs and nobles of the Fomorians and Tuatha De Danoia fell on that day, including King Balor of the Fomorians and King Nuada of the Tuatha de Danoia. [Refer to "Artifacts and Relics of the Isle of Dawn" for the description of the Redstone of Aran, which was created during this battle]. In the end, the Tuatha De Danoia held the field, and the remaining Fomorians and Nemedians fled for their lives. The Tuatha de Danoia spent the rest of the century in relative peace, leaving the Nemedians to their small strip of lands in the west. The "Other Goals" of the Ranite Dynasty included the conquest of the lands of the Helska and the Dunael tribes to the north. Their efforts began even before the Ranite Dynasty came to power, as the various noble clans allied with the Ranite Priesthood of Rathanos (a Chaotic Evil sect of the Priesthood of Rathanos) sponsored forays into Helskan and Dunael territory beginning in 920 BC. They had some success against the Dunael, but kept encountering difficulty in battles against the Helska. The Nithian attacks against the Helska galvanized those people, and in 900 BC they elected their first High King of the Helska. End... for now... Enjoy! Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #179 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 180 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Alternate Alphatian Timeline now available on site Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Fw: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) [MYSTARA] - Secret Craft: Phantasm [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:03:15 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate Alphatian Timeline now available on site My alternate Alphatian timeline, covering the years AC 1009 - 1015, is now available in HTML format on my geocities website. www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:01:26 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > I disagree. I think there is an underlying truth to what constitutes immorality. So the lawful churches will pretty much all consider the same types of things sinful (perhaps those things which go against the state, or an idea of "what a proper state is"), and chaotic churches would consider the same types of things sinful (mostly concerning those things which restrict an individual's freedom). And I disagree to your disagreement. It would be like that two "good" rulers could impossibly lead war against each other. (They do!) Sharing some general beliefs does not lead to agreements in details. One lawful church votes for priest's celibacy and against divorces while another is of a complete contrary opinion as their clerics marry and the followers can get a divorce. And this was my honest opinion... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:28:25 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in error). Jamuga Khan wrote: > > I disagree. I think there is an underlying truth to what constitutes > immorality. So the lawful churches will pretty much all consider the same > types of things sinful (perhaps those things which go against the state, or > an idea of "what a proper state is"), and chaotic churches would consider > the same types of things sinful (mostly concerning those things which > restrict an individual's freedom). > > And I disagree to your disagreement. It would be like that two "good" > rulers > could impossibly lead war against each other. (They do!) > > Sharing some general beliefs does not lead to agreements in details. > One lawful church votes for priest's celibacy and against divorces while > another is of a complete contrary opinion as their clerics marry and > the followers can get a divorce. > > And this was my honest opinion... > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:35 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) >Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt >very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in >error). Unfortunately, such wars are sadly common throughout history: the Thirty Years' War comes to mind immediately. In Mystara terms, let's not forget that the Wrath of the Immortals was the result of a division inside the Sphere of Energy. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:04:13 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism I, for one, have no idea how they manage to gain >all those XP, seeing how they must have been thoroughly "plundered" >and policed over and over again. Oh, I suppose the wizards conjure a >few monsters now and then and slaughter them for XP. :) Hah! Does any one remember the Levelmaker from The Book of Wondrous Inventions? A dwarf and a mage sit inside a big box; a hero comes up and puts a gem in a slot. If the dwarf decides the gem is of enough quality, the mage moves an animated skeleton underneath an anvil, that falls when the hero pulls a lever, thus getting five experience points. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:21:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in > error). Well, minor religious differences (in the eyes of outsider groups) have led to big-time conflicts between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, in 19-th century America and elsewhere. And there really isn't great difference between Judaism and Christianity, yet conflict between them has been common throughout history. I doubt the leaders of any lawful Mystara religion would declare a jihad on another religion, but I could easily see a faction of one, headed by a charismatic cleric, take on the faction of another. One key thing we also have to remember - immortals can remove spell-casting powers, which would show a cleric is not true to his/her religion, which very well might occur if they declare such a conflict. Off-hand, can anyone name likely conflicts between lawful churches on Mystara? - - Mischa Anvils have a limited appeal, you know - Charlie Cowell, "The Music Man" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:33:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > Hah! Does any one remember the Levelmaker from The Book of > Wondrous Inventions? A dwarf and a mage sit inside a big box; a hero There was an even nicer device in that book that transferred metal to gold. If a party hauled all of demolished Earthshaker from CM4 there... I did the calculations once, for the heck of it. Scary. - - Mischa Anvils have a limited appeal, you know - Charlie Cowell, "The Music Man" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 03:59:01 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > Off-hand, can anyone name likely conflicts between lawful churches on > Mystara? > 1. Internal conflicts in Ylaruam (as portrayed in the Net Almanacs): both are factions of Al-Kailm's thoughts (a L Immortal). 2. Chruch of Karameikos vs. Church of Traladara (they look quite "lawful" to me, as I talk of churches, not of scheming patriarchs). 3. Chruch of Thyatis vs. Church of Karameikos (the Mystaran event most similar to RW Lutheran Reform): I fancy some Thyatian crusaders (with a bit of help of Thyatian intrigue) falling upon Eastern Karameikos. 4. The "church of Rad", albeit not true clerical, is a L organization (Rad is) which would not tolerate any other organized religion operating in Glantri.I guess that, after WotI, some miscared Principalities (mainly Erewan) could feel that the authorization of non-preaching clerics after the Great Plague is too little for them (1st, elves have a very organized and quite powerful and ancient pantheon. It is quite absurd to think that, just for becoming Glantrians, religious inquietude would disappear from the populace. 2. In dire straits, people show a tendence to look up to heavens). Similar reasons could motivate a religious rebirth in Boldavia (grounded upon Traladaran spiritual traditions). After WotI and the Invasion of Ethengar (besides Synn's corruption efforts, if they are turned up), populace may start feeling that the magocracy has failed them when they most needed. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:26:47 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) At 11:01 PM 4/20/99 +0200, you wrote: >> I disagree. I think there is an underlying truth to what constitutes >immorality. So the lawful churches will pretty much all consider the same >types of things sinful (perhaps those things which go against the state, or >an idea of "what a proper state is"), and chaotic churches would consider >the same types of things sinful (mostly concerning those things which >restrict an individual's freedom). > > >And I disagree to your disagreement. It would be like that two "good" >rulers >could impossibly lead war against each other. (They do!) Are they really 'good' then? Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:20:24 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Fw: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) I think that yes to "good" leaders could go to war with each other over really anything! Such as the holy crusades of medieval times comes particularly to my mind over the possesion and the fact that they didn't allow them to visit there holy ground. So yes I think they could (note: more likely this will happen with churches of opposing beliefs not necessarilly alignment). - -----Original Message----- > Off-hand, can anyone name likely conflicts between lawful churches on > Mystara? > 1. Internal conflicts in Ylaruam (as portrayed in the Net Almanacs): both are factions of Al-Kailm's thoughts (a L Immortal). 2. Chruch of Karameikos vs. Church of Traladara (they look quite "lawful" to me, as I talk of churches, not of scheming patriarchs). 3. Chruch of Thyatis vs. Church of Karameikos (the Mystaran event most similar to RW Lutheran Reform): I fancy some Thyatian crusaders (with a bit of help of Thyatian intrigue) falling upon Eastern Karameikos. 4. The "church of Rad", albeit not true clerical, is a L organization (Rad is) which would not tolerate any other organized religion operating in Glantri.I guess that, after WotI, some miscared Principalities (mainly Erewan) could feel that the authorization of non-preaching clerics after the Great Plague is too little for them (1st, elves have a very organized and quite powerful and ancient pantheon. It is quite absurd to think that, just for becoming Glantrians, religious inquietude would disappear from the populace. 2. In dire straits, people show a tendence to look up to heavens). Similar reasons could motivate a religious rebirth in Boldavia (grounded upon Traladaran spiritual traditions). After WotI and the Invasion of Ethengar (besides Synn's corruption efforts, if they are turned up), populace may start feeling that the magocracy has failed them when they most needed. Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:16:41 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Secret Craft: Phantasm Phantasy and Reality: A Dissertation On The Nature Of Our Art- by Jherek Virayana IV, Prince of Krondahar. Delivered in a covert meeting to the Sect of Phantasmagoria, Flaurmont 14, 1000 AC. From its humble beginnings as mere sleight of hand, the art of Illusion, the practice of deceiving the perceptions of others, is one of the staples of magic worlds over. Practitioners of the art are known to have arisen on Mystara and on the original Alphatian homeworld independently of one another. There is every reason to believe they exist on other worlds and planes of existence as well. Many wizards employ spells of Illusion in their craft, and there are those who are known to specialize in their employment. From these, the School of Illusion was first developed- a formalized curriculum of education in the craft of altering and manipulating the perception of reality as others know it. Though many divisions of the School exist, most teach the same skills and practices, though their theories may differ slightly. One division of the School of Illusion was founded on Mystara some two thousand years ago. Certain Illusionists of Alphatian origin began to investigate the nature of the sleeping mind. They were intrigued by the apparent different state of consciousness that comes with dreaming. In particular, the phenomenon of nightmares- those horrifying dreams all men seem to have at some point in their lives- fascinated them. If they could figure out the common denominator behind such phenomenon, they reasoned, perhaps they could use them to create waking nightmares in their victims- the ultimate in perception altering experiences. It perhaps goes without saying that these Alphatian sorcerors were researching the phenomenon for use as a weapon against the cultures that surrounded the Alphatian continent. Their researches eventually bore fruit, as the existence of the nightmare causing factor was finally discovered. Nightmares, it was learned, were due to the influence of another realm of existence that lay side by side with our own. The creatures inhabiting this realm were horrifying, evil, and just as superfluous in their realm as we are in our own. Fortunately, their realm was permanently removed from ours, such that none of the creatures had ever been encountered in the flesh. Strangely, though, it appeared that the sleeping mind was able to contact this realm. Freed from the perceptions of waking life, the unconscious brain was capable of bridging the gap between worlds. If they could bring the conscious brain into a state resembling sleep, then the Illusionists would have found the weapon they sought after so diligently. Shortly, this sect of Illusionists had devised a number of magical abilities that utilized their new principles. Their branch of the school, dubbed the Sect of Phantasmagoria, quickly rose to prominence in certain areas of Alphatia, notably the forest realm currently known as Blackheart. Unfortunately, the early Phantasmers did not fully comprehend the powers they utilized. Their use and abuse of their new abilities began to tear rifts in the barriers between the Nightmare Dimension and so-called "Normal Space." Great, hideous beasts poured forth from the other realm, causing havoc and warping the forest. Eventually, in response to hostilities between the elves and sorcerors of the central forests, the Council of Wizards became involved. When the Council realized the extend of damage wrought by the Phantasmers, they quickly outlawed their sect. For the first time in Alphatian history, the study of magic was illegal, at least in this form. Not until many centuries later would the Council repeal this new law. Of course, the study of the Nightmare Dimension persisted in secret, though it never reached the extent of influence in Alphatia as it had before being outlawed. The services of Phantasmers were still sought after by Alphatian citizens- even the Grand Council itself. Halzunthram, the notorious leader of the Alphatian expeditionary force here in Glantri a century ago, personally recruited more than three dozen Phantasmers for his army. Their effectiveness during the Forty Years is noted in many historical texts, and need not be repeated here. Following Halzunthram's defeat, many Phantasmers remained in Glantri, settling with the rest of the populace. They kept their specialty secret, as much due to tradition as to hide from those who might seek retribution for their Alphatian allegiances. Several of these sorcerors were instrumental in forming the Great School of Magic. It is here that their legacy lives on, among us, the practitioners of Phantasmagoria. *************** With the release of Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, and the change from OD&D to AD&D, the Secret Craft of Illusion described by Bruce Heard in Gazetteer 3: Principalities of Glantri, was altered from its original presentation. Part of the problem was that the distinction between Illusionists (the AD&D specialty) and Illusionists (called Dream Masters in G:KoM) wasn't very clear. Another difficulty was that the cosmology of OD&D, upon which the Gaz 3 Illusionist was based, didn't mesh with the larger cosmology of AD&D. To that end, I have endeavored to retool both types of Illusionists for the AD&D campaigns. Note that this retooling utilizes the cosmology as originally presented by Frank Mentzer in the Gold Box Immortals set. Also note that, though mostly designed for AD&D usage, this new take can also be utilized in OD&D settings with little modifications necessary. To that end I have developed two distinct (but related) fields of study: the School of Illusion and the Sect of Phantasmagoria (a branch of the School of Illusion). Illusionists are just as common on Mystara as they are in most AD&D campaigns, and follow much the same rules as set out in the Player's Handbook. The Phantasmers, however, are slightly different, and have additional rules. **************** The Illusionist Description: Illusionists are those who specialize in sorceries that change a person's perceptions of the outside world. To this end, they utilize magics that affect the senses directly or indirectly, by altering the sensory input. They can change light and auditory patterns, physical appearances, and more, all with the intent of fooling the victim into believing things are not as they appear. Special Name: Illusionist. Allowed Races: Humans (and gnomes in AD&D). Elves (and half-elves in AD&D) are able to enter into the secret craft taught at the School of Magic in Glantri, but cannot otherwise specialize in the field of Illusion. Ability Requirements: Illusionists play with the very perceptions of the outside world. As a result, a high degree of willpower and strong grasp on reality is a prerequisite to become an Illusionist. A score of 16 or higher in Wisdom is sufficient to meet this requirement. (Note that this is a change from the AD&D rules on Illusionists.) Saving Throw Modifiers: Illusionists add a +1 bonus when rolling saving throws against any type of illusion. Opponents suffer a -1 penalty when rolling saving throws against illusion/phantasm spells cast by an illusionist. These modifiers are only used against illusions where a saving throw is applicable. Bonus Spells and Acquired Powers: Illusionists can memorize an extra spell at each spell level, provided that at least one of the memorized spells is from the school of illusion. Upon reaching 18th level, the illusionist gains an additional +1 bonus when saving against illusions (bringing his total to +2 on saves). When the illusionist reaches 20th level, he gains the ability to cast a special dispel illusion spell three times per day. The spell's range is 30 yards, and has a casting time of 1. The illusionist need merely point at the subject to be dispelled and concentrates; no material or vocal components are required. The spell enables the illusionist to dispel any form of phantasmal force. It is only effective on spells cast by non-illusionists, however. There is a base 50% chance of success for the dispel ability. For each level of the illusionist above the caster of the phantasmal force, the chance of success is increased +5%. Conversely, a lower level illusionist has a -5% chance of success per level of difference between himself and the phantasmal force's caster. Oppositional Schools: Illusionists are forbidden to learn spells from the schools of Necromancy, Invocation/Evocation, and Abjuration. Illusionist Spells: Audible Glamer (1st) Cantrip (1st) Change Self (1st) Nystul's Magic Aura (1st) Phantasmal Force (1st) Spook (1st) Ventriloquism (1st) Blindness (2nd) Blur (2nd) Deafness (2nd) Fools' Gold (2nd) Hypnotic Pattern (2nd) Improved Phantasmal Force (2nd) Invisibility (2nd) Leomund's Trap (2nd) Mirror Image (2nd) Misdirection (2nd) Whispering Wind (2nd) Confusion* (3rd) Hallucinatory Terrain* (3rd) Illusionary Script (3rd) Invisibility, 10' Radius (3rd) Phantom Steed (3rd) Spectral Force (3rd) Wraithform (3rd) Fear (4th) Illusionary Wall (4th) Improved Invisibility (4th) Minor Creation** (4th) Phantasmal Killer (4th) Rainbow Pattern (4th) Shadow Monsters** (4th) Vacancy (4th) Advanced Illusion (5th) Demi-Shadow Monsters** (5th) Dream/Nightmare** (5th) Major Creation** (5th) Seeming (5th) Shadow Door (5th) Shadow Magic** (5th) Demi-Shadow Magic** (6th) Eyebite (6th) Mirage Arcana (6th) Mislead (6th) Permanent Illusion (6th) Programmed Illusion (6th) Project Image (6th) Shades** (6th) Veil (6th) Mass Invisibility (7th) Sequester (7th) Shadow Walk** (7th) Simulacrum (7th) Screen (8th) Weird (9th) Special Spell Notes: Spells marked with one asterisk (*) are available as 3rd level spells to members of the secret craft of Phantasmagoria (below). Note that Phantasmers still are subject to the -15% penalty to learning Confusion (an Enchantment/Charm spell). Regular Illusionists must learn these spells at their normal levels and chances of success. Spells marked with two asterisks (**) are not available to regular Illusionists. As (with the cosmology utilized) there is no Plane of Shadow, these spells do not exist. Similar spells are available to those members of the secret Sect of Phantasmagoria described below, however. The Masters of Phantasm The secret craft of Phantasmagoria is an offshoot of the school of Illusion. Practitioners of the illusory arts came to realize the affinity between their perception altering craft and the Dimension of Nightmares. Investigating the relationship further, they developed the ability to reach the Nightmare Dimensions, and bring it into alignment with "normal" space with varying degrees. The resultant effect provides them with some devastating powers. Though not all Phantasmers (as they call themselves) are members of the school of Illusion, most find the perceptual training provided by that school to be invaluable in their practice. The result is that there are more Illusionists who are also Phantasmers than there are of any other specialization. As their history is laid out by Jherek Virayana (introduction, above), Phantasmers may be found in isolated locations in Alphatia. This is an optional rule, however. If DMs prefer to have Phantasmers exist only in the Great School of Magic, simply rule that persecution among Alphatians and the development of differing areas of study (such as Dimensionalists, described elsewhere) caused the study of Phantasmagoria to die out on the continent in Alphatia. Circle Advancement for AD&D (from Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, p. 99) Cir Days Cost XP Level Success # Uses 1 14 500 5,000 5th 60+2/level 3/day 2 28 1,000 10,000 7th 50+2/level 2/day 3 42 1,500 20,000 10th 40+2/level 1/day 4 56 2,000 35,000 14th 30+2/level 1/week 5 70 2,500 55,000 18th 20+2/level 1/month Special Abilities of Phantasmers (Note: You may either utilize these abilities in 3 ways: 1) as originally laid out in Gaz3, p. 73, 2) as per the AD&D spells of similar effects (listed after the name in the descriptions below), or 3) as laid out in the following descriptions: Hypnosis (First Circle) [AD&D: Hypnotism, 1st level] Periods of sleep are the most common instances during which normals come into contact with the Nightmare Dimension. The reasons for this are not fully understood, but there are many theories. One prevalent one has it that the sleeping brain, unhindered by the constant sensual perception of the first three dimensions, is somehow capable of understanding the greater dimensional reality. Hypnosis is the ability to influence others into a state of suggestibility similar to sleep. This is the first ability learned by a Phantasmer, and in many ways forms the basis of all their powers. The ability works as per Gaz3: Principalities of Glantri, p. 73 (or Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, p. 108). Dream/Nightmare (Second Circle) [AD&D: Dream/Nightmare, 4th level] The caster may attempt to affect the dreams of one intelligent person, up to 1 mile away per level. He may send a message through the dream, which the dreamer will recall completely upon awakening. False messages may be sent as well, possibly affecting the dreamers reasoning upon rising (Intelligence check for NPCs; PCs should roleplay their characters interpretation of the dream as appropriate.) Alternatively, the caster may attempt to disrupt the dreamer's sleep with horrid nightmares- a glimpse of the Nightmare Dimension itself. The victims are allowed a saving throw vs. spell to avoid the effect. Such nightmares cause 1d10 points of damage, negate the effects of a night's sleep, and keep the victim from recovering his spells for the day. If the Phantasmer fails two attempts against the victim in a row, he cannot affect this particular victim ever again (and his true face is revealed in the victim's dream). Additionally, if rolling a 01 on the ability check, the caster is caught in a nightmare of his own and awakens with the same effect as if casting a successful nightmare on his victim (1d10 damage, loss of rest, no spell recovery). Nightmare Creatures (Second Circle) [AD&D: Shadow Monsters, 4th level] The Phantasmer is able to bring one sleeping victim's mind into partial conjunction with the Nightmare Dimension. One intelligent creature, up to 1 mile away per level of the caster, can be affected. The total Hit Dice of the creatures appearing cannot exceed the level of the caster- eg, a 9th level caster can summon a Malfera into the dreamer's mind. All Nightmare Creatures appearing must be of the same sort. If the creatures win the dream combat, the victim awakens screaming, and temporarily loses 1 point of Constitution. All lost points are recovered after 1 full night of uninterrupted sleep. At 0 points of Constitution, the victim goes insane. A Heal spell is needed to cure this insanity. Suspicious characters may identify the origin of the nightmares (ie, the Phantasmer) by casting a Contact Outer Planes spell. As with Dream/Nightmare, if the Illusionist fails two attempts in a row, he may not contact this victim ever again. On a roll of 01, the Phantasmer must face a Nightmare Creature himself. If beaten, he permanently loses one point of Constitution. (Optionally, you can have the victim make a Horror check using Geoff Gander's rules, upon awakening. Note that during combat, they will not need a Horror check, as the sleeping mind is able to adapt to the Nightmare Dimensions horrors more easily than the waking consciousness.) Delirium Tremens (Third Circle) [AD&D: No true equivalent; use Shadow Magic, 5th level] By means of this ability, the Phantasmer can cause the victim's waking mind to come into contact with the Nightmare Dimension. The effect is similar to those caused by the illusionist spell Spectral Force, in that the caster can create whole landscapes and images in the victim's mind. These scenes are not illusions, however (they are actual places and images that exist in the Nightmare Dimension), and thus victims do not gain a saving throw to disbelieve them. Up to 1 HD or level of persons can be affected for each level of experience the caster possesses. The spell's effective range is a radius of 120'. If used to create damage causing images- ie, falling from a cliff, duplication of spell effects (such as a Fireball)- all damage is real. The damage caused is equal to 1d6 points per level of the caster (up to 10d6 maximum). If the caster rolls a 01, he himself falls victim to a waking nightmare of the sort he intended to create. Even if he or she survives the damage caused by the nightmare effect, he will be trapped between Normal and Nightmare space until he either finds a way to escape the Nightmare Dimension (via magicks worked there) or is awoken in Normal space by another person. Demi-Nightmare Creatures (Third Circle) [AD&D: Demi-Shadow Monsters, 5th level] This ability is similar to Nightmare Creatures (Second Circle), except that the Phantasmer can bring Nightmare creatures into phase with a victim even while they are awake. Such Nightmare creatures have statistics similar to those of the Second Circle spell (1 HD per level of the caster). The caster can affect multiple victims, as well (unlike with the lower level spell). Up to 1 HD or level of victim per caster level may be affected, within a radius of 120'. Those who are unaffected by the spell see the victims fighting invisible enemies. On a roll of 01, the caster is attacked by the very Nightmare Creatures he was attempting to summon. Further, even if he survives their attacks (all damage suffered is real), his mind will be trapped in the Nightmare Dimension until he is awoken in Normal space or manages to otherwise escape. In Normal space, his body falls into a coma-like state, and is vulnerable to any actions taken against it there. Nightmare Walk (Fourth Circle) [AD&D: Shadow Walk, 7th level] The Phantasmer may enter into the Nightmare Dimension itself through the use of this spell. Passage to the Nightmare Dimension may only be accomplished through areas of shadow. The reasons for this are unclear, but there are many different theories (such as that proposed by the Dimensionalists, that light and darkness are caused by emanations from the Nightmare Dimension). The ability lasts for 1 round per level of experience of the Phantasmer. The caster may affect an area of 1 yard per level. While using this ability, the caster may travel from shadow to shadow (the effect of which is identical to a Dimension Door spell), by crossing the dimensional boundaries between Normal and Nightmare space. He may also shift himself partially into the Nightmare Dimension while remaining in place. The effect of this dimensional shift is that the caster becomes immaterial and invisible. His presence may only be detected by Detect Invisible or similar spells, and he may only be affected by magical weapons. The caster may not cast normal spells while out of phase with normal space, though he may use other Phantasmer abilities. The Phantasmer may only remain immaterial while in the cover of darkness. On a roll of 01, the caster actually shunts himself completely into the Dimension of Nightmares, and cannot use this ability to return himself to normal space. He must find another way to return, or be trapped in the Dimension of Nightmares forever. Nightmare Molding (Fourth Circle) [AD&D: Major Creation, 5th level] With this ability, the Phantasmer may bring items from the Nightmare Dimension into phase with normal space. Only items of nonliving, vegetable nature or inanimate mineral matter may be thus called forth. Such objects may only be called forth from areas of darkness or shadow, but once called forth, they remain in existence for varying periods of time (equivalent to those suggested in the spell Major Creation, PHB p. 170). The range of this spell is 1 yard per level, with a duration of 1 round per level (note that the duration of the spell and the period of existence of items thus summoned are not the same thing). Light spells cast on summoned objects act similar to a Dispel Magic spell, with the same chances of success. Shadows created by Darkness spells may be Dispelled normally; naturally occuring shadow areas may not be Dispelled. On a roll of 01, all of the caster's items carried are themselves shunted into the Dimension of Nightmares. There they will remain until recovered by the caster, or picked up by denizens of that realm. Dreamlands (Fifth Circle) [AD&D: No equivalent] The High Master of Phantasmers may fully enter or leave the Nightmare Dimension once per month. Once there, he may create a stronghold of solid shadow matter. This stronghold will remain in permanent existence until physically destroyed. Any creatures native to the Nightmare Dimension that wander into the stronghold (25% chance per week) must save vs. spell or fall victim to the High Master's control. A number of creatures equivalent to twice the caster's level may thus be controlled at any single time. While under the caster's control, the creatures will be utterly loyal and will serve and protect the High Master's territory to the best of their intellect and abilities. On a roll of 01, the caster causes a rupture between Nightmare and Normal space. His Nightmare stronghold collapses, and any Nightmare creatures residing therein are pulled into Normal space to wherever the High Master is. The shock of transport will have driven them insane, and they will seek to destroy the caster. They will seek him every night until either he or they are destroyed. Horrors (Fifth Circle) [AD&D: Shades, 6th level] With this spell, the High Master of Phantasmers may bring Nightmare Creatures into full phase with Normal space, there to do his bidding. The total HD of creatures thus summoned may be up to 1 HD per level of the caster. The High Master may then bequeath the Nightmare Creatures with a mission, which they will perform to the best of their ability. The casting of this spell requires the burning of a Nightwing's tongue as the prime materal component. The creatures thus summoned arrive from the High Master's Nightmare stronghold (as in Dreamlands, above). While present in Normal space, the High Master may see and hear all that the creatures themselves see (similar to Clairvoyance and Clairaudience), and he may communicate through them. There is no range limit to this connection. Upon completion of their mission, the creatures return to the Nightmare Dimension, and are freed of the caster's control. A roll of 01 summons the creatures, but the shock of transport drives them insane. They will seek to destroy the summoner, coming after him every night until he or they are destroyed. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:44:58 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism My cousin, who just started playing OD&D a year ago or so, recently let me look through an adventure, he had written. In it there was a 15th-level mage with 140 hp. I asked him how this could be, and this is what he told me: In the cellar the mage kept a pet spectre. Once in a while he'd visit the spectre and let it drain him of 2 levels, losing the minimum number of hp's each level. Then he'd gain another two levels, gaining the maximum number of hit points. Thus over a period of time the mage managed to build up several "extra" hp's (3 per energy drain). Eventually he tired of it and gained his additional levels (up to 15). :) Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #180 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 181 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline] Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism [MYSTARA] - PC Professions RE: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions R: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:45:06 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline] Geoff, great job with the Randel mindset in the Alternative Timeline. i guess someone actually read my leviathon Randel Gaz. :-) thanks for not putting up a Randel emperor/ess. i have the Randel like being a prominent figure of influence in the Imperium, but do not want the burden of actually running the empire. one other note though- you mention the bulk of the good Council Members being killed. why not a brief change to further muddy the waters? have Alphatia's chaotic nature surface. when the empire starts dissolving, many GC mages opt to show their loyalties to their respective home kingdoms... sort of like many of the American officers did during the War of Northern Aggression. ah what heck...make it two notes- what about the Alphatian Expeditionary Forces (AEF) on Brun awaiting to hit Glantri? i may have missed a reference to the AEF...i am missing one portion of the thread...but imo these troops could have struck at Glantri or even at Thyatis, possibly razing everything in their withdrawal back to the IoD and back to their own respective kingdoms....like the GC mages. of course Thyatis would probably witness some dissolving as well. The PWAs even mentions the independence movements of certain Thyatian kingdoms. and there are frequent mentionings on the MML of the stagnant borders on Mystara. with the Empires in dissaray, there is a great opportunity for those high level PCs to embark upon a bit of Kingmaking. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:42:40 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism >My cousin, who just started playing OD&D a year ago or so, recently >let me look through an adventure, he had written. In it there was a >15th-level mage with 140 hp. I asked him how this could be, and this >is what he told me: > >In the cellar the mage kept a pet spectre. Once in a while he'd visit >the spectre and let it drain him of 2 levels, losing the minimum >number of hp's each level. Then he'd gain another two levels, gaining >the maximum number of hit points. Thus over a period of time the mage >managed to build up several "extra" hp's (3 per energy drain). >Eventually he tired of it and gained his additional levels (up to 15). > >:) LoL. Is that serious? Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:28:44 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > But it is true that only DotE went completely overboard with 36th- > level characters. I suppose the reasons are that "ancient" empires > breed higher levels. I, for one, have no idea how they manage to gain > all those XP, seeing how they must have been thoroughly "plundered" > and policed over and over again. Oh, I suppose the wizards conjure a > few monsters now and then and slaughter them for XP. :) Well, this was a peace of anger from the beginning, but I don't have the wish to rewrite TSR's material. BTW, there is one information from the PWAs which CAN explain why Alphatian nobles are able to get so much XPs. The mentioned wages are tremendously high. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:36:13 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics > Whatever. > > I like fighters/paladins too. But they don't have a place in Alphatia. > It's all an interpretational issue, but Thyatis is for fighters. Alphatia > is for MUs. > > Ethan Is Alphatia the bigger version of Glantri, only more boring? I don't think so. Your statement is definetely NOT my opinion. Remember: Glantri is a magocracy, a land from and for mages. Alphatia is a magical empire, a land for magic in all appearances. There might be wizards who wish back the good old days from the time of the first empire even after two thousand years, but they have to face the clerical situation. Additionally there are elves who are good fighters, dwarven clerics, halfling masters and, the probably most recent developement, humanoid spellcasters who have the same rights only in Limn so far. To allow avengers and paladins to become MGCs may be a hot discussed matter in Alphatia over the last few decades, and there might be as much Alphatian opposing this idea as there are MML members, but nevertheless I have started this IMC and I have written down this in my description of the Grand Council. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:53:37 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > Rules are a servant to the Story and the World. There are no rules > complete enough to run a completely logical world. If you hold rules > superior to the DM or to a world-builder, your players gain a weapon too > strong to use against you. Sad enough! BTW, there is no logical system without contradictions (Kurt Goedel). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:41:26 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) In a message dated 99-04-20 17:31:56 EDT, you write: << Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in error). >> Why not? England tore itself apart over the question of one man's divorce. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:13:13 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism That sounds like a good idea!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:21:34 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics I completely agree so there might be a few fighters but I think they would be a mercenary group for the larger part just to keep the heat of battle off the Alphatian wizards while they conjure up some stuff. Stewart the 3rd - -----Original Message----- From: Jamuga Khan To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics >> Whatever. >> >> I like fighters/paladins too. But they don't have a place in Alphatia. >> It's all an interpretational issue, but Thyatis is for fighters. Alphatia >> is for MUs. >> >> Ethan > > >Is Alphatia the bigger version of Glantri, only more boring? >I don't think so. Your statement is definetely NOT my opinion. > >Remember: > >Glantri is a magocracy, a land from and for mages. > >Alphatia is a magical empire, a land for magic in all appearances. > >There might be wizards who wish back the good old days from >the time of the first empire even after two thousand years, but >they have to face the clerical situation. Additionally there are >elves who are good fighters, dwarven clerics, halfling masters >and, the probably most recent developement, humanoid spellcasters >who have the same rights only in Limn so far. To allow avengers >and paladins to become MGCs may be a hot discussed matter >in Alphatia over the last few decades, and there might be as much >Alphatian opposing this idea as there are MML members, but >nevertheless I have started this IMC and I have written down this >in my description of the Grand Council. > > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:26:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > > Rules are a servant to the Story and the World. There are no rules > > complete enough to run a completely logical world. If you hold rules > > superior to the DM or to a world-builder, your players gain a weapon too > > strong to use against you. > Sad enough! That's an Argument! Anyway, the point of this mail is to suggest that you folks close the case of the Alphatian Avengers. If you agree, please do it without those onelastcomments, stretching the 'discussion' for further n+1 posts. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:46:03 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism >> >>In the cellar the mage kept a pet spectre. Once in a while he'd visit >>the spectre and let it drain him of 2 levels, losing the minimum >>number of hp's each level. Then he'd gain another two levels, gaining >>the maximum number of hit points. Thus over a period of time the mage >>managed to build up several "extra" hp's (3 per energy drain). >>Eventually he tired of it and gained his additional levels (up to 15). > > LoL. > > Is that serious? Oh yes. Said cousin is the same one who wrote up stats for the "Tank Golem", having 90 HD (650 hp) and firing Meteor Swarms every 3rd round. Having immunity to every spell, except Gate (I think) and to weapons of less than +8 (meaning you need a Sword+x; +y vs Constructs). I for one miss the frolics of misguided youth. And BTW the first time I saw M3, I thought that the Carnifex +to hit was meant as + NEEDED to hit. Yikes! Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:00:19 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our occupations. It all began when our witch-PC (an optional class the DM had summoned from an Outer Plane) started collecting all the "small" magic items we had found. Potions of Gaseous Form, Swords+1, Scrolls of Protection from Lycanthropes...All of these she put on display and started selling at rather low prices. Seeing the profit she easily made, my character decided to follow suit and "get a job". Having selected the Animal Training skill, but never actually having found a good use for it, I decided to start a pet shop. Not an ordinary one of course, but a shop of magical pets and monsters. For a small sum I had a "hunting lodge" built in the nearby woods, and started hunting for all sorts of creatures. Initially I stocked the place with ordinary forest animals, and the odd monster. The venture quickly grew out of scope and I hired a lot of retainers and animal trainers and started expanding the lodge. Eventually it turned into quite a succesful business, that also gave a lot of adventure opportunities, as well as my faithful companion, Leo, a lion that I caught in the Thyatian Hinterlands and brought back to Karameikos in a grand adventure. Afterwards I spent years training it and it accompanied me on several adventures before being disintegrated by a Glantrian mage. Others in the party opened training halls (the barbarian) or a smuggling guild (the thief). And all this led to several profession- related adventures and gave us a greater sense of living in a campaign and experiencing a real world. Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:48:14 +0200 From: Kristian Kramer Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Yup, most of my characters have a profession: My first character (a Thorvack priest) bought an Inn and made a lot of profit with it (you know, Thorvack's Inn in Threshold, close to the West Gate). Some adventures were sponsored by Thorvack's Inn. Thorvack sometimes made more profit with the Inn, than with adventuring. He also did some small services for the local church (healing sessions). My second character (Giganti Greenapple (halfling fighter) started a brewery with another fighter (Wishlash). At one time they thought that Giganti's family in the Shires would realy like to have some real Gigan Beer and they bought two wagons and went travelled from Threshold to the Shires. It was quite an adventure I can tell you. At the moment I play a dwarven battlerager (Unwit Orcripper), but he doesn't do anything but adventure... but his companion Neron Shadowmage (necromancer) has a small scroll shop. There he sells maps, ancient scrolls and books. He doesn't make a lot of money, but he just likes to meet other people interested in that sort of thing. Always good for an adventure hook! Cheers, Kristian Kramer kristian.kramer@comsys.nl > -----Original Message----- > From: Jacob Skytte [SMTP:SKYTTE@VIRGIL.ruc.dk] > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:00 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions > > Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart > from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, > but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for > nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander > adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our > occupations. > > It all began when our witch-PC (an optional class the DM had summoned > from an Outer Plane) started collecting all the "small" magic items > we had found. Potions of Gaseous Form, Swords+1, Scrolls of > Protection from Lycanthropes...All of these she put on display and > started selling at rather low prices. Seeing the profit she easily > made, my character decided to follow suit and "get a job". > Having selected the Animal Training skill, but never actually having > found a good use for it, I decided to start a pet shop. Not an > ordinary one of course, but a shop of magical pets and monsters. For a > small sum I had a "hunting lodge" built in the nearby woods, and > started hunting for all sorts of creatures. Initially I stocked the > place with ordinary forest animals, and the odd monster. The venture > quickly grew out of scope and I hired a lot of retainers and animal > trainers and started expanding the lodge. > > Eventually it turned into quite a succesful business, that also gave > a lot of adventure opportunities, as well as my faithful companion, > Leo, a lion that I caught in the Thyatian Hinterlands and brought > back to Karameikos in a grand adventure. Afterwards I spent years > training it and it accompanied me on several adventures before being > disintegrated by a Glantrian mage. > > Others in the party opened training halls (the barbarian) or a > smuggling guild (the thief). And all this led to several profession- > related adventures and gave us a greater sense of living in a > campaign and experiencing a real world. > > Jacob Skytte > Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ================================================================ De informatie verzonden met dit E-mail bericht is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Gebruik van deze informatie door anderen dan de geadresseerde is verboden. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding en/of verstrekking van deze informatie aan derden is niet toegestaan. Comsys staat niet in voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden E-mail bericht, noch voor tijdige ontvangst daarvan. Evenmin kan Comsys worden gebonden door de eventuele acceptatie van een vermeend aanbod in een verzonden E-mail bericht. The information contained in this communication is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. Comsys is neither liable for the proper and complete transmission of the information contained in this communication nor for any delay in its receipt. Comsys can never be legally bound by the acceptance of any supposed offer in an electronic message. ================================================================ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:47:13 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions of the best group of players I played with this is how it turned out. Faendril Greycloak - built a small magical empire in glantri, darokin & karameikos selling spell components. His main headquarters was a in the mountians of karameikos (yeah I gotta pay the import fee in glantri but d**n at least I don't have to pay the taxes) Magda Crystaphiles - Half Traldear/Thyatian human Fighter. Founded the Knights of the Dragon, a semi-merecnary group that opposed the Heldannic Knights As a former Gladiator in the Thyatian Arenas she opened up a number of training halls/"dojos"in Thyatis & Karameikos for Gladitorial combat. (Not legal in Karameikos, true, but it does help fighters keep on their toes) Bjorn Ericsson & Thyra Bjorndotter - Father & daughter Vestlanders(?). Started a shipping business that brought items not over by sea but overland as well with the help of Greycloaks transportation spells. After the WotI, Thrya began expiditions into the Broken Lands/Crater area for rare minerals and metals. (Side note, when last played her and her party of 5 helpers were caputred somewhere inside the broken lands (adventure hint!) IF you like I'll send out stats for her) Randel (Never knew if he had a last name) - Hin "adventurer". through old contacts with the Aturaghin Clans he sells natives items in and around Karameikos. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Skytte To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 5:00 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions > Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart > from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, > but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for > nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander > adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our > occupations. > > It all began when our witch-PC (an optional class the DM had summoned > from an Outer Plane) started collecting all the "small" magic items > we had found. Potions of Gaseous Form, Swords+1, Scrolls of > Protection from Lycanthropes...All of these she put on display and > started selling at rather low prices. Seeing the profit she easily > made, my character decided to follow suit and "get a job". > Having selected the Animal Training skill, but never actually having > found a good use for it, I decided to start a pet shop. Not an > ordinary one of course, but a shop of magical pets and monsters. For a > small sum I had a "hunting lodge" built in the nearby woods, and > started hunting for all sorts of creatures. Initially I stocked the > place with ordinary forest animals, and the odd monster. The venture > quickly grew out of scope and I hired a lot of retainers and animal > trainers and started expanding the lodge. > > Eventually it turned into quite a succesful business, that also gave > a lot of adventure opportunities, as well as my faithful companion, > Leo, a lion that I caught in the Thyatian Hinterlands and brought > back to Karameikos in a grand adventure. Afterwards I spent years > training it and it accompanied me on several adventures before being > disintegrated by a Glantrian mage. > > Others in the party opened training halls (the barbarian) or a > smuggling guild (the thief). And all this led to several profession- > related adventures and gave us a greater sense of living in a > campaign and experiencing a real world. > > Jacob Skytte > Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:17:01 +0200 From: "Matteo" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions On the same line A) Kalandril (strong in knowledge) of Rafiel, a shadow elf diplomat in Norwold, has started collecting books in order to exchange with information for the Heal of the twisted forest of Aengmor. he ended in a big library open to every one. for very day you spend in the library studing he earns a little cash. if you want to copy a book 8 no rent is allowed) you must bring a new book to the library in order to be copied. B)Treicar of Treictur a human thief, starting from a little illegal import export, he now hold the control of one of the best merchant fleet along the cost of brun. especially norwold Coast. there is no need to say thatsometimes he doesn't dislike some pirate action (especially toward heldannic ships) C)Jemore the Patriarch of frey, has open a healing place. he took the control of a little termal valley and built his temple there. after few years evry norwold adventurer and commoner need some special heal go to the valley of Jerome. now in his temple works a 50 clkerics, and about 100 common folk expert in medicine. D) I also have seen in my years of play a human bard that had created a very big business of song trading, a dwarf that has became one of the most appreciated builder of castle and dungeon of the region ( if you remember the cost table for building in old expert rules you can easily understand how is rich this little dwarf now). I think that is normal for every player, trying to find new way of realization for their characther. also the most hack and slash player will get bored with the normal stuff at late. Matteo the man who don't remember how write in english ^__^ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:19:38 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions > Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart > from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, My group: Sire Halfar is our mr. businessman. He worked first for a global news agency (USG served me an inspiration), but was kicked out after certain scandals in Darokin, so he is putting up a security company in Glantri city. GLANSEC just won a double-victory in the Gondola games by manning two boats with ruthless gents & nobles -- he got his PR, as everyone thought that the passengers were GLANSEC:s security personnel. He's got a new alarm/tracking spell he casts to customers houses, and after an intrusion, GLANSEC:s gondola will be there in less than three minutes! Baron Valentino of Ylourgne is a baron, but he is putting up his own wine business by putting peasants grow wine for tax. If he gets his Ylourgnian as good brand as Château Sylaire has, he will be a rich man. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:01:57 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Thus far, my favorite character Arminath has run several successful business ventures while adventuring and semi-retired. Early on, he ran a 5 person operation of mountain guides for travelers and miners in the Cruth Mountains. The office located in Threshold, called Wynter's Mountain Guides, was popular with adventurers looking for ways to access areas of the trecherous mountains that had rumors of dangerous, but rich, beasties. It's still running today, under Katarina Ivanovich (hf M10), a longtime friend and former adventuring companion. The Weary Wanderer, a roadside inn and tavern, was built by Arminath to provide a steady income after he began traveling the countryside and helping those that hadn't the means to help themselves (mostly Traldar natives in the beginning of the Thyatian takeover). This resembles a small keep with a moat on the road between Kelvin and Threshold. It has enough room to hold 10 wagons, stables large enough to hold and feed 25 horses, a common room for up to 100 patrons and 10 private rooms. The guest rooms and common room take up the first 2 floors, the tavern is on the 3rd floor and rooms for the help are on the 4rd floor. Private rooms for Arminath and any companions he may be travelling with are on the 5th floor. Private and common baths are located outside, as is a practice yard (for those fighter/guards to keep busy). The Inn is run by Mischa Mischev (hf B7), the stables by Thoman Sergov (hm 0-level) and the tavern by Baldrak (dm F5/Th5), 'ol Rotgut to his regular patrons. Ilyana Yakonovich (h-ef f7/m6) oversees the entire operation for Arminath, and can be found nearly anywhere, assisting the common help. Several others staff the place as well. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:59:03 +0100 From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions > Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart > from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, > but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for > nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander > adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our > occupations. Yup,yup, IMC: Moskva Koranov, Private Investigator, pre-campaign was a member of the Glantrian Constabulary, during campaign was a Judge and is now leading the Revolution... Jan Hogel, once a Private Investigator working for Moskva, then a noble rising through the ranks, then (after being stripped of title for being a werewolf, sentenced to death, then off the hook when the new laws came in) adviser to Prince Malachie and Princess Julianna, and lately a wanted criminal on the run for killing Dolores Hillsbury (not that she's dead of course :) ) Alonzo de la Mancha, one time Private Investigator working for Moskva, then joined the Army full time when war broke out with Alphatia. Rose through the ranks, eventually got forced into politics and ended up winning the Principality of Bramyra. Actually, with that bunch the one thing they seem not to do is wander around the countryside looting things. Their jobs are the adventures. It's fun... (I run another game where all they do is wander around killing bad guys for Kings, running missions for Rheddrian etc, lots of fun but for very different reasons...) gordon Gordon McCormick, System Management UCD Computing Services,Belfield, Dublin 4 ph. +353 1 7062017 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:08:49 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) On Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:24:03 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > G:KoM doesn't say that Alphatia was "founded" in 400 AC. It only says that > 400 AC is the year when the Flaem (latecomers to Mystara) learned that the > Alphatians had beaten them to the KW. So Alphatia was "found" -- i.e. > discovered by the Glantrians -- that year, not "founded" (created). <> G:KoM.. Pfah! I'm amazed you still try to find something good out of to it.. DM Crusader against "Glantri: Keg of Mistakes (aka Killer of Mystara)" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:20:37 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Hi Everyone :) I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. I just got done reading an article on the net about the shootings in Colorado. The article that described the shooters was written by Marc Fisher of the Washington Post. The reason that I am writing is that Marc in his article said that D&D was an inspiration for the "gothic" subculture and a possible influence on the shooters. Here is part of his article: " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has become a fascination of many American high schoolers, some of whom simply dress and paint their fingernails black while others immerse themselves in a pseudo medieval world of dark images." I am passing this on to let everyone know that once again our wonderful and fun game system has been trashed and we now again have to fight a negative and harmful rep. The text of the article Michele refers to is available at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm The e-mail address of the author is mfisher@washpost.com Do what you want with this... DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #181 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, April 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 182 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - denver post article Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline] Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:30:07 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: [MYSTARA] - denver post article This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_UL6QJ5G4DvKVIQvp1inVWQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I sent him a letter mfisher that is and chewed him a new ass! Just = thought everyone should know. =20 Stewart the 3rd - --Boundary_(ID_UL6QJ5G4DvKVIQvp1inVWQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 


 
I sent him a letter mfisher that is = and chewed=20 him a new ass! Just thought everyone should know.
 
          &nbs= p;  =20 Stewart the 3rd
- --Boundary_(ID_UL6QJ5G4DvKVIQvp1inVWQ)-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:41:25 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions Yes one of my PCs runs a small shire and tours using a custom made boat with a spell jamming helm, he found on an adventure, through the air ways of the known world, a pricey trip! (this has spawned a few adventures),and one former PC (now an NPC) built several hospitals a fter the great war,free for those of lesser wealth or struck by a great calamity (this has had many adventures in setting up and protecting them, Sometimes even on adventures to find a rare herb) Stewart E. Lentz - -----Original Message----- From: Jacob Skytte To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 5:06 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions >Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart >from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, >but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for >nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander >adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our >occupations. > >It all began when our witch-PC (an optional class the DM had summoned >from an Outer Plane) started collecting all the "small" magic items >we had found. Potions of Gaseous Form, Swords+1, Scrolls of >Protection from Lycanthropes...All of these she put on display and >started selling at rather low prices. Seeing the profit she easily >made, my character decided to follow suit and "get a job". >Having selected the Animal Training skill, but never actually having >found a good use for it, I decided to start a pet shop. Not an >ordinary one of course, but a shop of magical pets and monsters. For a >small sum I had a "hunting lodge" built in the nearby woods, and >started hunting for all sorts of creatures. Initially I stocked the >place with ordinary forest animals, and the odd monster. The venture >quickly grew out of scope and I hired a lot of retainers and animal >trainers and started expanding the lodge. > >Eventually it turned into quite a succesful business, that also gave >a lot of adventure opportunities, as well as my faithful companion, >Leo, a lion that I caught in the Thyatian Hinterlands and brought >back to Karameikos in a grand adventure. Afterwards I spent years >training it and it accompanied me on several adventures before being >disintegrated by a Glantrian mage. > >Others in the party opened training halls (the barbarian) or a >smuggling guild (the thief). And all this led to several profession- >related adventures and gave us a greater sense of living in a >campaign and experiencing a real world. > >Jacob Skytte >Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:56:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy In case anyone's interested, here's a copy of that letter I sent to Marc Fisher. ***BTW, the correct email address for him is fisherm@washpost.com and for the Post is webnews@washpost.com. I sent to both. __________ Mr. Marc Fisher: I am writing concerning your comment in the article concerning the Colorado school shootings. In tracing the origins of the "Gothic" subculture, you specifically referenced the Dungeons and Dragons(TM) game as a root of the movement. While it is true that Dungeons and Dragons (TM) and other fantasy role-playing games are a common tie to many "Goths," they are not the underlying cause of the movement. Perhaps a more common factor would be the Vampire books of Anne Rice? Or gothic/industrial rock bands? Of course not; it would be silly to blame the cause of a violent shooting on a novel, or music, would it not? Then why blame it on a fantasy rpg? FRPGs are a popular pastime among thousands of bright, well-adjusted professional adults. RPGers are professors, attorneys, doctors, and government employees. Unfortunately, in an outbreak of hysteria twenty years ago, religious fundamentalists labeled FRPGs as "evil." Even worse, the media homed in on the sensationalism of these stories, and printed the accusations. What's more, many journalists continue to publish such nonsense even to this day. No link has ever been found between FRPGs and violent behaviour, including shottings, satanism, suicide, or anything else. On the other hand, many psychologists have come to use role-playing as a valuable tool in therapy, as imagination plays a strong role in emotional recovery. I offer you two suggestions, based upon the above: 1)Visit the Mining Co.'s site, and search the AD&D index; there is an interesting article there debunking the fundamentalist charges versus FRPGs. 2)Print a retraction, or at the very least a correction. Thank you for your time. Jennifer Favia Guerra McAllen, TX *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:53:52 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions At 11.00 22/04/99 +0100, Jacob Skytte wrote: >Have any of you ever wondered what your PC's do for a living (apart >from adventuring)? I mean adventuring can be a full-time occupation, >but at some point you tire of seeking treasure and monsters for >nothing but cash and violence (or whatever). many of the grander >adventures of the former campaign I had a PC in were spawned of our >occupations. Many of the adventures I run were not just about seeking treasures and monsters, usually my PCs had something else to do, like carrying precious stuff in a far off land through dangerous terrain. Anyway my PCs always tried to associate adventuring with a secobdary occupation, like trading. One of my first PCs, a cleric of the CoK and member of the Order of Griffon, spent lot of his money in setting up a trading company based in Specularum. He bought a ship, hired sailors and a captain, and started moving goods from Karameikos to Ierendi and also to Thyatis. Unfortunately neither him, nor the man he choosed to lead his company were skilled traders, so he quickly lost a lot of money. Another PC, while in Glantri, bought a license as Beast Hunter (or something like that) and started chasing big cats and selling their furs. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:57:32 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara > Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in > error). This was not your point in the beginning (at leats I haven't understood it that way), but I cannot agree nonetheless. Something like an "absolute good" simply do not exist. One master I played with see LG as better than CG and plagues me with LG NPCs trying to cpnvert my CG cleric to the "true faith". From this it's only a small step to start a war against other good guys. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:05:23 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and take up another. The underlying truth does not change. Nicholas Hudson wrote: > >Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but > > I doubt > >very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without > > one being in > >error). > > Unfortunately, such wars are sadly common throughout history: the > Thirty Years' War comes to mind immediately. In Mystara terms, let's > not forget that the Wrath of the Immortals was the result of a > division inside the Sphere of Energy. > > "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was > Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen > > Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:06:49 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Ireland is more of a political squabble. As for Protestants vs Catholics, it would be difficult to isolate a single MORAL issue over which they disagree. Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I doubt > > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being in > > error). > > Well, minor religious differences (in the eyes of outsider groups) have > led to big-time conflicts between Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, > in 19-th century America and elsewhere. And there really isn't great > difference between Judaism and Christianity, yet conflict between them has > been common throughout history. I doubt the leaders of any lawful Mystara > religion would declare a jihad on another religion, but I could easily see > a faction of one, headed by a charismatic cleric, take on the faction of > another. One key thing we also have to remember - immortals can remove > spell-casting powers, which would show a cleric is not true to his/her > religion, which very well might occur if they declare such a conflict. > Off-hand, can anyone name likely conflicts between lawful churches on > Mystara? > > - Mischa > > Anvils have a limited appeal, you know - Charlie Cowell, "The Music Man" > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:08:11 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Hm, I wonder what sort of metal comprises the Earthshaker. How many weapons could be made from it? How many walls? Buildings? Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > Hah! Does any one remember the Levelmaker from The Book of > > Wondrous Inventions? A dwarf and a mage sit inside a big box; a hero > > There was an even nicer device in that book that transferred metal to > gold. If a party hauled all of demolished Earthshaker from CM4 there... > > I did the calculations once, for the heck of it. Scary. > > - Mischa > > Anvils have a limited appeal, you know - Charlie Cowell, "The Music Man" > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:10:57 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism The problem is, you are considering only one method of xp acquiring. Killing monsters and acquiring gold is just the way the CHARACTERS do it. One has to assume that training and study provide the skill for most npcs. Though one also has to admit, that practical application provides the highest gain (and the fastest). Jamuga Khan wrote: > > But it is true that only DotE went completely overboard with 36th- > > level characters. I suppose the reasons are that "ancient" empires > > breed higher levels. I, for one, have no idea how they manage to gain > > all those XP, seeing how they must have been thoroughly "plundered" > > and policed over and over again. Oh, I suppose the wizards conjure a > > few monsters now and then and slaughter them for XP. :) > > Well, this was a peace of anger from the beginning, but I don't have > the wish to rewrite TSR's material. BTW, there is one information > from the PWAs which CAN explain why Alphatian nobles are able > to get so much XPs. The mentioned wages are tremendously high. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:12:25 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) The "without one being in error" part is the key phrase. BoBoII@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-04-20 17:31:56 EDT, you write: > > << Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I > doubt > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being > in > error). >> > > Why not? England tore itself apart over the question of one man's divorce. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:14:18 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - PC Professions I believe it was David Eddings' novel character "Silk" who turned me on to having a mundane profession. Robert Herrick (my fighter/thief, named after the Renaissance poet) does a little merchant activity on the side, as he stays one step ahead of a certain powerful thieves' guild. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:18:45 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Write the politicians!!!!! Its absolutely ridiculous how politicians from both sides of the aisle come out before the bleeding even stops, to try and use such a tragedy for their own gain. We are being doused by these anti-rpg types and anti-gun ownership types and the situation is going way too far. Liberty! Anyway, sorry for carrying this on. I do strongly urge everyone to write the appropriate people, encouraging them to see through the veil of smoke. DM wrote: > Hi Everyone :) > > I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. > I just got done reading an article on the net about the shootings in > Colorado. The article that described the shooters was written by Marc > Fisher of the Washington Post. > > The reason that I am writing is that Marc in his article said that D&D was > an inspiration for the "gothic" subculture and a possible influence on the > shooters. > > Here is part of his article: > " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture > that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes > of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. > Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has > become a fascination of many American high schoolers, some of whom > simply dress and paint their fingernails black while others immerse > themselves in a pseudo medieval world of dark images." > > I am passing this on to let everyone know that once again our > wonderful and fun game system has been trashed and we now again have > to fight a negative and harmful rep. > > The text of the article Michele refers to is available at: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm > > The e-mail address of the author is mfisher@washpost.com > > Do what you want with this... > > DM > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:13:53 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism >The problem is, you are considering only one method of xp acquiring. Killing monsters and acquiring gold is just the way the CHARACTERS do it.One has to assume that training and study provide the skill for most npcs. >Though onealso has to admit, that practical application provides the highest gain (and the fastest). And don't forget that rulers receive experience from their dominions; the rules deliberately made this amount low so that PCs would actually go out and adventure, but if one is a full-time ruler, one could probably make a nice piece of change, especially if one is a mage-ruler who has been on the throne for a few hundred years. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 03:19:07 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting You see, D&D gets the rep because it's been out the longest. Personaly I think if anything has created a "goth movement" it's been white wolf with Vampire:The Masquerade. And no, I'm not blaming that game or the company. VtM is a very goth orientated game, much more then D&D - ----- Original Message ----- From: DM To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 12:20 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > Hi Everyone :) > > I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. > I just got done reading an article on the net about the shootings in > Colorado. The article that described the shooters was written by Marc > Fisher of the Washington Post. > > The reason that I am writing is that Marc in his article said that D&D was > an inspiration for the "gothic" subculture and a possible influence on the > shooters. > > Here is part of his article: > " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture > that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes > of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. > Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has > become a fascination of many American high schoolers, some of whom > simply dress and paint their fingernails black while others immerse > themselves in a pseudo medieval world of dark images." > > I am passing this on to let everyone know that once again our > wonderful and fun game system has been trashed and we now again have > to fight a negative and harmful rep. > > The text of the article Michele refers to is available at: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm > > The e-mail address of the author is mfisher@washpost.com > > Do what you want with this... > > DM > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:11:16 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism > >>In the cellar the mage kept a pet spectre. Once in a while he'd visit > >>the spectre and let it drain him of 2 levels, losing the minimum > >>number of hp's each level. Then he'd gain another two levels, gaining > >>the maximum number of hit points. Thus over a period of time the mage > >>managed to build up several "extra" hp's (3 per energy drain). > >>Eventually he tired of it and gained his additional levels (up to 15). > > > > LoL. > > > > Is that serious? > > Oh yes. Said cousin is the same one who wrote up stats for the "Tank > Golem", having 90 HD (650 hp) and firing Meteor Swarms every 3rd > round. Having immunity to every spell, except Gate (I think) and to > weapons of less than +8 (meaning you need a Sword+x; +y vs > Constructs). > > I for one miss the frolics of misguided youth. And BTW the first time > I saw M3, I thought that the Carnifex +to hit was meant as + NEEDED > to hit. Yikes! BTW, as we see it this never could work. We write down the hit points for every level, and it's impossible to reach more when regaining a level. But the idea was cool... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:24:35 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Alternate Alphatian Timeline] > >Geoff, > great job with the Randel mindset in the Alternative Timeline. i guess >someone actually read my leviathon Randel Gaz. :-) thanks for not putting up >a Randel emperor/ess. i have the Randel like being a prominent figure of >influence in the Imperium, but do not want the burden of actually running the >empire. Thanks! That's how I saw Randel's role - more as a guardian and a kingdom that stays the course, rather than a controller. >one other note though- you mention the bulk of the good Council Members being >killed. why not a brief change to further muddy the waters? have Alphatia's >chaotic nature surface. when the empire starts dissolving, many GC mages opt >to show their loyalties to their respective home kingdoms... sort of like >many of the American officers did during the War of Northern Aggression. In fact, that's sort of what was implied in the whole scenario. Eldrethilia, Llynara, Sildreth II, Acroshiye, and many others began a slow process of state-building, once they saw the centre wasn't holding anymore. For example, in one event, Theranderol (under Eldrethilia) annexed some surviving towns in Vertiloch, and bettellyn settled large swaths of the eastern Imperial Territories. Unspoken in all this is that some GC mages did survive (just a large chunk of them died), and they either went to Skyreach or to their home nations to help their rulers. Even those who went to Skyreach switched their allegiance to that Randel-led coalition (which soon dissolved as Theranderol, Arogansa, and Randel proved unwilling ot give ground in Eadrin). Still, what you suggest is a neat twist, and there's no reason at all why anyone couldn't do that. >ah what heck...make it two notes- what about the Alphatian Expeditionary >Forces (AEF) on Brun awaiting to hit Glantri? i may have missed a reference >to the AEF...i am missing one portion of the thread...but imo these troops >could have struck at Glantri or even at Thyatis, possibly razing everything >in their withdrawal back to the IoD and back to their own respective >kingdoms....like the GC mages. There likely would have been some damage in the pullout, and hey, some of the troops may have gone to Glantri anyway. I left Brun events out of the picture because Alphatia alone was a pretty tall order - the actual .doc file is about 26 pages long! I may revisit those areas and work them out, or just be content to let others fill in the blanks as they wish. The Alphies could very well have done their share of razings, but I figured, once news reached them of Sundsvall's destruction, many would have broken ranks and returned home to see their families, especially when the full scale of destruction was known. Also, some might have feared an invasion by hostiles, so it would be best to return home and defend the motherland. >of course Thyatis would probably witness some dissolving as well. The PWAs >even mentions the independence movements of certain Thyatian kingdoms. and >there are frequent mentionings on the MML of the stagnant borders on >Mystara. with the Empires in dissaray, there is a great opportunity for >those high level PCs to embark upon a bit of Kingmaking. Of course! I decided to script Thothia as a resurgent menace, so restive Thyatian colonies might have opted to shelve plans for independence until the threat was eliminated. I stopped at 1015, but there's nothing stopping anyone from sharing their musings as to what might happen in the future. There are a lot of conflicts, some simmering, and some out in the open. Speaking of stagnant borders, I guess I'd better get around to computerizing that map of the Alphatian continent, as of 1015 in my timeline.... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Part-Time High Priest, Ottawa Chapter of the Church of Y'hog au998@freenet.carleton.ca *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:49:40 -0400 From: Bruce Pierpont Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Does anyone know TSR/WotC's or GaMA's addresses? GaMA regular refutes these claims, and TSR/WotC's lawyers might be interested in the possible anti defamation suit they could file... DM wrote: > > Hi Everyone :) > > I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. > I just got done reading an article on the net about the shootings in > Colorado. The article that described the shooters was written by Marc > Fisher of the Washington Post. > > The reason that I am writing is that Marc in his article said that D&D was > an inspiration for the "gothic" subculture and a possible influence on the > shooters. > > Here is part of his article: > " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture > that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes > of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. > Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has > become a fascination of many American high schoolers, some of whom > simply dress and paint their fingernails black while others immerse > themselves in a pseudo medieval world of dark images." > > I am passing this on to let everyone know that once again our > wonderful and fun game system has been trashed and we now again have > to fight a negative and harmful rep. > > The text of the article Michele refers to is available at: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/april99/suspects21.htm > > The e-mail address of the author is mfisher@washpost.com > > Do what you want with this... > > DM > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 18:19:31 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) In a message dated 4/22/99 11:14:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << DM Crusader against "Glantri: Keg of Mistakes (aka Killer of Mystara)" >> I really like Glantri Kingdom of Magic, it was my fifth d&d thing (hey, for two bucks it was worth it) and I have a very successful campaign, here's my plan... The group consists of a few characters Kylion-a ranger Alexander-a fighter Rei-mage Par Thanar (NPC)-a cleric Alesia (NPC)-a thief Mellissa Goldmoon (NPC)-a mage, here is my adventure plot: 1. Night of the Vampire to set the scene. 2. Journey to Glantri to get Bargel the Infamous (They would do anything for 500,000 gold pieces). During this time they talked to Terari/Tylion and now are plan to use seven special orbs to drain any part of his magic and release them on the day of no magic so that the immortals will drain away the magic (no magic rule!, by the way, this is Tylion's idea). The thing is that they will really be transported to the Nucleus of the Spheres and Tylion and Bargle will fight in battle in which I plan on having the PCs try to convince Bargle to enter the Nucleus, since that would permanently replenish it (its their theory [One of them uses the Radiance] that a powerful magic user who enters the nucleus would replenish it, maybe it will work or maybe not. 3. They have so far three orbs, one from the Temple of Rad, one in the adventure 'into the darkness', and one from a gnome adventurer. Any comments? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #182 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 183 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - denver post article & PC Professions [MYSTARA] - survival kits Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - denver post article & PC Professions [MYSTARA] - Glantri? RE: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) [MYSTARA] - RE: PC Professions [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - undead realm back soon Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy Re: [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy [MYSTARA] - OT: That article URL Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - survival kits Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:40:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture > that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes > of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. > Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has A similar comment was in the local paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. > I am passing this on to let everyone know that once again our > wonderful and fun game system has been trashed and we now again have > to fight a negative and harmful rep. The only appropriate response is to show that there is no correlation between D&D and violence. I saw some information a few years back, when I used to read rec.games.frp.dnd, about how roleplayers are less likely to have psychological problems or commit violence (the exact nature of the study totally escapes me since it has been some time. Research or asking around should track it down.) Simply defending this as a matter of liberty is not appropriate. People use the same logic to explain the ownership of guns by teens, the racism, hate and destructive opinions of the individuals involved, the glorified violence on TV and film daily that has helped corrupt our culture, the libertine parenting methods that neglect discipline or teaching morals. It is sad to see people use mass murder as a political tool for various ideologies or as a ratings tool for the news media. Tragedies like these teach us something though - there is a problem in this culture, probably numerous ones, that led to such actions. Simplifying things by pinpointing one aspect won't solve a thing but nor will drawing in unrelated things like D&D and associating them with such tragedies. - - Mischa Medicine is founded on the premise that the physician will always act in the best interests of the patient. For-profit medicine demands that the physician act in the best interests of the investor. These two mandates are irreconcilably in conflict - pediatrician Alan Meyers, on managed care *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > Hm, I wonder what sort of metal comprises the Earthshaker. How many weapons > could be made from it? How many walls? Buildings? This could get pretty far from munchkinism and certainly shows imagination on the part of players. If DMed and moderated properly, it could be the most interesting part of a (IMO) weak module. Often it seems the events stemming from modules are more interesting than the events included. - - Mischa Medicine is founded on the premise that the physician will always act in the best interests of the patient. For-profit medicine demands that the physician act in the best interests of the investor. These two mandates are irreconcilably in conflict - pediatrician Alan Meyers, on managed care *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:47:22 -0400 From: Mitch Anderson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - denver post article & PC Professions First of all I have to say I am very impressed with the "conduct" I guess you could call it on this mailing list. The discussion of the recent Colorado shooting is very interesting, and I have to commentd Jennifer Favia Guerra (Valerya@webtv.net) for a very well writen letting. Also everyone's PC professions are v.fun to read. --Mitch :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:32:56 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - survival kits Hi i was just wondering exactly what is in the DM/PC survival kits? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:54:55 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara At 08:57 PM 4/22/99 +0200, you wrote: >> Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I >doubt >> very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one >being in >> error). > >This was not your point in the beginning (at leats I haven't understood it >that way), but I cannot agree nonetheless. >Something like an "absolute good" simply do not exist. Sure it does. >One master I played with see LG as better than CG and plagues >me with LG NPCs trying to cpnvert my CG cleric to the "true faith". >From this it's only a small step to start a war against other good guys. Course, if you try to convert others to your faith by other than reason by example, you can't really consider yourself good anymore. If you use force, than you are less concerned with the convertee's(this is a word?) welfare, and more concerned with how you look, or in the solidarity of belief. Example, if everyone believes the same thing you do, no one can ask embarassing questions you can't answer. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:33:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) >>The thing is that they will really be transported to the Nucleus of the Spheres and Tylion and Bargle will fight in battle in which I plan on having the PCs try to convince Bargle to enter the Nucleus, since that would permanently replenish it Sounds very interesting. Any grand scheme as to what Tylion gets out of it? Does this somehow fulfill part of his Quest, perchance? ;) Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:36:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - denver post article & PC Professions >>I guess you could call it on this mailing list. The discussion of the recent Colorado shooting is very interesting, and I have to commentd Jennifer Favia Guerra (Valerya@webtv.net) for a very well writen letting. Thank you! :-) BTW, I haven't been in all day; has anyone let the newsgroups and WebRPG know? What about TSR/WotC?? Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:56:45 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Does anyone here have the Glantri Campaign or just maps and info on people and places in Glantri? I f so I am willing to trade some info and other stuff for it ! just write me at redrobyne@ellijay.com . Thankyou, Stewart the 3rd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:01:06 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? TRADE!!!! Sorry but we have a free exchange of ideas system here. If you want the Glantri info your going to have to accept it for free. :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 > -----Original Message----- > From: redrobyne [SMTP:redrobyne@ellijay.com] > Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 11:57 AM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > > Does anyone here have the Glantri Campaign or just maps and info on people > and places in Glantri? I f so I am willing to trade some info and other > stuff for it ! > just write me at redrobyne@ellijay.com . > > Thankyou, > Stewart the 3rd > > > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the > line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:20:42 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wish-munchinism > > a single M36 in Glantri, not a single E36 in either Shadowelves' > > territories or Alfheim. No F36, T36 or C36 in Karameikos... > Well, even with GAZ-rules and all that there still can't be an E36. You must be a shaman-36 to cast Transcend via the Soul Crystals, and the shaman-level may never exceed one's ordinary level. As if I cared. > But it is true that only DotE went completely overboard with 36th- > level characters. I suppose the reasons are that "ancient" empires > breed higher levels. I, for one, have no idea how they manage to gain > all those XP, seeing how they must have been thoroughly "plundered" > and policed over and over again. Oh, I suppose the wizards conjure a > few monsters now and then and slaughter them for XP. :) Ruler XP's are outrageously high for kings, so... I just wonder why Alphatia wastes all that good experience on the Thousand Wizards, for whom it is obsolete. If they wanted all Grand Councilors to be on the 25th level, and kicked them out on the 36th, they could put much more experience to use. Cost efficiency is the theme of the decade. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:54:01 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism >>>>In the cellar the mage kept a pet spectre. Once in a while he'd visit >>>>the spectre and let it drain him of 2 levels, losing the minimum >>>>number of hp's each level. Then he'd gain another two levels, gaining >>>>the maximum number of hit points. Thus over a period of time the mage >>>>managed to build up several "extra" hp's (3 per energy drain). >>>>Eventually he tired of it and gained his additional levels (up to 15). > > BTW, as we see it this never could work. We write down the hit points > for every level, and it's impossible to reach more when regaining a level. > > But the idea was cool... IYC, right? I haven't seen any rules dealing with this...Of course the original message was just for laughs; even though my cousin thinks it's a perfect explanation! Jacob Skytte Skytte@virgil.ruc.dk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:07:44 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) In a message dated 4/22/99 11:39:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Valerya@webtv.net writes: << Sounds very interesting. Any grand scheme as to what Tylion gets out of it? Does this somehow fulfill part of his Quest, perchance? ;) >> think about hit, Tylion plans on getting bargle into the nucleus so that magic would be saved, he is a twentieth level mage who can live for as long as he wants, he would really like to save the magic... 'That's right! Join the Save the Magic foundation...' *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:36:37 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: PC Professions Hello again! Thank you all for your interesting replies. I think I might very well include some of your characters IMC as NPC's. I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that having a job besides adventuring is fun. And often a great starting point for adventures! It's fun reading about your ideas, and I kind of like this sort of thing on the MML. Jacob Skytte, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:45:21 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects Greetings & salutations to all of you! During my work assembling all rulers and titled people in a single list (it's just rounding 21 pages!) I've come across a list of clan heads in the Northern Reaches. I was wondering if any of you know of any work being done on these personalities. If not then I'm planning to flesh them out considerably... I'm talking about the people listed in the Player's Book of GAZ7 The Northern Reaches as rulers of the different jarldoms etc. Jacob Skytte, Denmark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:23:49 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting >You see, D&D gets the rep because it's been out the longest. Personaly I >think if anything has created a "goth movement" it's been white wolf with >Vampire:The Masquerade. And no, I'm not blaming that game or the company. >VtM is a very goth orientated game, much more then D&D Not to mention that I have yet to see an AD&D character -- medieval fantasy, remember...? -- who shoots off semiautomatic pistols, shotguns and carbine rifles. "Gothic" clothing didn't even get its start with White Wolf, although the WoD craze (and Marilyn Manson) is presently associated with that style of clothing; one of the teenagers from "The Breakfast Club" was black-clad and morbid, years before the WW company was founded! Most clinchingly, no connection to RPGs was drawn in any of the previous cases of schoolyard gun-violence which have graced our headlines, over the last couple of years. There's nothing these kids were reading, playing, listening to, or watching on TV that Alice Cooper and the 1970s slasher-films didn't expose a previous generation of kids to ... kids, who never unleashed the kinds of senseless IRL violence America's been suffering, again and again. All that's different is the grotesquely easy access such borderline nut-cases - -- of any age -- now have, in the U.S., to powerful firearms. I'll be writing to the Post as well ... just as I'm sure gamers and Goths across the country have been ... and if the article's author has any shame, the newspaper will turn its attention away from spurious connections, and try advocating the enforcement of safety-locks for guns. Sharon D., who's as outraged as anyone *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:51:54 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - undead realm back soon Hi Jen, well, first, i'm sorry i've been so long to be back on line, but i was very, very busy. But now, let's talk about. I've seen last informations on tv and of course on the web about shooting, and gothics mvmts. In France, same problems but no assimilation between goths and rpg (really a surprise). For my point of view, the problem is that some adolescents are 'fragiles' and can be easilly manipulated by others. I'm a bit afraid of mediatisation of these sort of acts, because it could be possible to be an exemple for other youngs without social marks (don't know if it's correctly expressed). In France, fire weapons are forbidden, even a knife if it's longer than an established law. It's right that if somebody wants to have a gun he can find one, but not so easily.... After that parenthesis, I would like to have your opinion about undead realm. I would like to make this more detailed, but i'm a bit afraid of translation (it's why there's so poor things about). friendly, Fred'Cobaye'DeLaval; *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 11:51:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects >I've come across a list of clan heads in the Northern Reaches. I was wondering if any of >you know of any work being done on these personalities. If not then I'm planning to flesh >them out considerably... Ariel, when he developed the Marauders, did a little bit of history for their clan (in Soderfjord). I'm not sure if they're from the Gaz or not, but you're welcome to check it out. Follow the link to "The Marauders and the Stalkers," at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/nonint.html Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:52:12 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara I'm sorry, this is unrelated...but I thought it was a pretty good joke. I shall try to relate it after I er...um...relate it... There came a day when President Clinton was to meet with the Pope. The summit was to only last an hour, but ended up taking a week, with the two closeted away in intense discussion. Eventually, President Clinton emerged, smiling his half smile, and the reporters asked him about the meeting. "Oh," he drawled, "I think our meeting was a complete success. We agreed on 80% of what we discussed." Wow, the reporters thought, that's pretty amazing. Then the Pope came out of the meeting room, and they asked him how it went. He shook his head sadly and said the discussion was an abyssmal failure. "But how can that be?" They asked him, "the President said you two agreed on 80% of what was discussed!" "We were discussing the Ten Commandments." There is a lesson there, about what I mean when I say "underlying morality". I'm not certain I can make it any clearer than to say, "Poking Jamuga in the eye, for no reason whatsoever, would be morally wrong in any good religion." Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I > doubt > > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one > being in > > error). > > This was not your point in the beginning (at leats I haven't understood it > that way), but I cannot agree nonetheless. > Something like an "absolute good" simply do not exist. > > One master I played with see LG as better than CG and plagues > me with LG NPCs trying to cpnvert my CG cleric to the "true faith". > >From this it's only a small step to start a war against other good guys. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:08:31 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy Yeah Jenn! I've always wanted to do something similar, but just couldn't get away from the hysterics of "Dummy! Of course it's not D&D's fault!" You did a great job of putting it down succinctly and logically. I hope you meet with a favorable response, and keep us posted as to what it was. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "Evil powers disappear demons worry when the Wizard is near." --Black Sabbath *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:22:00 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Letter and correct addy Thanks! :-) I will let everyone know if I get any response. On a related note, I just read an article on the Mining Co.'s site talking about how another article blamed it on the game Doom. I'll see if I can find the URL. Jenn ________ >>Yeah Jenn! I've always wanted to do something similar, but just couldn't get away from the hysterics of "Dummy! Of course it's not D&D's fault!" You did a great job of putting it down succinctly and logically. I hope you meet with a favorable response, and keep us posted as to what it was. - --Frobozz-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:26:28 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - OT: That article URL Here's the URL for that MiningCo article, concerning Doom: http://compactiongames.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa042199.htm Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:00:55 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting At 19.40 22/04/99 -0400, Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> " Black trench coats are a consistent theme in the Gothic subculture >> that has attracted many teenagers to the poetry, music, and costumes >> of a scene that ranges from benign fantasy to violent reality. >> Inspired by fantasy games such as Dungeons and Dragons, Gothic has > >A similar comment was in the local paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Here in Italy an almost literal translation of that comment appeared on the local paper. I immediately signalled the thing to the Italian association concerned about the correct info about RPGs. They're usually very active in that field. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:48:28 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >TRADE!!!! >Sorry but we have a free exchange of ideas system here. If you want the >Glantri info your going to have to accept it for free. :) > Trade Glantri stuff? Are you mad? Glantri stuff must be greedily hoarded and treasured, for it is the most precious possession you could ever have. Especially the sacred scriptures known as "GAZ3", which were written by that holiest of the holy, Bruce Heard. If you get it, you shall be immediately elevated to the ranks of the chosen few, for it is a book of which not even the Immortals are worthy :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:43:42 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) > DM > Crusader against "Glantri: Keg of Mistakes (aka Killer of Mystara)" >> > > >I really like Glantri Kingdom of Magic, it was my fifth d&d thing (hey, for Don't listen to DM. He's crazy :) Hey, you know what? I think he actually owns G:KoM and secretly thinks it's the best thing ever to come out for Mystara. So, unable to bear the thought of the best Mystaran accessory being an AD&D one, he tries to convince us all that he hates it :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:44:35 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - survival kits >Hi i was just wondering exactly what is in the DM/PC survival kits? Nothing that you need :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:53:58 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. ((No offense meant, national generalizations of course exclude every individual, though they may work on the national level!)) The problem is not the gothics, it is the Americans. When the British lunatic shot a classroom of schoolkids, the British banned firearms. When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. If the British lunatic were an American lunatic and would have shot a classroomful of kids, the Americans would probably have banned a) being a lunatic b) schools c) probably the both. Remember the Holy Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth: firearms do not kill people; rpg:s do. - Markus, frustrated and temporarily a cultural racist P.S. Hey, I didn't kill him! I SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD! ...his dying was between him and the God! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:58:16 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Real quick since this is so far offtopic: Whoa! Saying its the gun's fault is just as imbecilic as saying it is the fault of an rpg or a trenchcoat! The reason these things continue is because people do not wish to believe in evil. Stop ignoring the fact that the individual who does these things is a free-willed human being who would commit evil acts no matter what object was in hand! Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > I know it's off-topic so I'll make it brief. > > ((No offense meant, national generalizations of course exclude every > individual, though they may work on the national level!)) > > The problem is not the gothics, it is the Americans. > > When the British lunatic shot a classroom of schoolkids, the British > banned firearms. > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > If the British lunatic were an American lunatic and would have shot a > classroomful of kids, the Americans would probably have banned a) being > a lunatic b) schools c) probably the both. > > Remember the Holy Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth: > firearms do not kill people; rpg:s do. > > - Markus, frustrated and temporarily a cultural racist > > P.S. Hey, I didn't kill him! > > I SHOT HIM IN THE HEAD! > > ...his dying was between him and the God! > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #183 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, April 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 184 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) [MYSTARA] - Earning XPs by Ruling RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Colorrado Incident Thread Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Colorrado Incident Thread Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - survival kits Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:25:12 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > The "without one being in error" part is the key phrase. > > BoBoII@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 99-04-20 17:31:56 EDT, you write: > > > > << Two different churches may disagree over a matter like celibacy, but I > > doubt > > very seriously they would go to war over it (or even COULD without one being > > in > > error). >> > > > > Why not? England tore itself apart over the question of one man's divorce. Who can decide it? I think nobody even if religious and political groups have demanded the wisdom and the right to decide such matters in our history. So this merely more than a theoretical concept. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:22:29 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and take > up another. The underlying truth does not change. Most Europeans and Americans wouldn't agree today. And what can change over the centuries can cause a dispute between contemporary groups. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:28:16 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Earning XPs by Ruling > The problem is, you are considering only one method of xp acquiring. Killing > monsters and acquiring gold is just the way the CHARACTERS do it. One has to > assume that training and study provide the skill for most npcs. Though one > also has to admit, that practical application provides the highest gain (and > the fastest). Well, earning money IS one way to get XPs. Another way is ruling, and while a small barony does not give too much XPs there might be exceptions: To rule the City of Thyatis earns you at least three levels the year regardless your class and already achieved level. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:07:50 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like gun licensing or something. But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's with the people. BRINGING THIS ON-TOPIC: It seems that most Mystaran countries allow citizens to bear arms, having fewer restrictions even than the U.S. does. What if there were a rash of mass-murders? Granted the situation is a little different, since you have to work a little harder to massacre 20 children with a sword than with a gun. But what if this resulted in arms controls? It could make for some interesting roleplaying. Of course, magic could be abused even more than guns. A few mid-level magicians with some magic missiles and fireballs could kills dozens of people, or burn half a village. A few lunatic mages could result in magic being outlawed. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:23:24 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Markus Olavi Montola meandered fecklessly... > > - Markus, frustrated and temporarily a cultural racist Good for you. Vent it elsewhere. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:28:40 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Colorrado Incident Thread Mystarans, I know we are all upset at the unfortunate incident in Colorado; not only was it a senseless tragedy, but it also was fodder for the media to attack two groups that had no real involvement in it all: gamers and goths. You will notice that I did not step in and stop the thread, because even though it is off-topic, it is hardly something that can be ignored. Feel free to discuss it further, as long as it is all in a calm, rational manner. Don't use it as an opportunity to whip out your cultural or national biases, or I will have to hand out warnings like they were candy. We're all adults here (I think : ), so let's keep things polite. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:24:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) In a message dated 1999-04-23 18:18:08 Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > > Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and > take > > up another. The underlying truth does not change. > > Most Europeans and Americans wouldn't agree today. > > And what can change over the centuries can cause a dispute > between contemporary groups. I suspect that few modern Americans or Europeans would have much sympathy for Henry VIII's position, even if they effectively side with him religiously. His exact motives and arguments provide an exercise in hypocrisy that might make an interesting plot for gaming purposes. The problem that Henry VIII had, of course, is that his first wife had failed to provide him with a male heir. He believed that another woman would succeed here where his first wife had failed. Of course, in hindsight it is obvious that he put his country through a lot of suffering for this purpose without even achieving his goal, as his only son was sickly and died, childless, a few years after Henry himself died. The argument that Henry used to justify annulling his first marriage was an interesting one. His first wife, Catherine, was his older brother's widow. At that time marriage to one's sister-in-law was not permitted without special permission from the Pope, which in this case was granted. Henry attempted to argue that the Pope did not have the authority to grant such special permission, and therefore his first marriage was null and void. Naturally, the Pope was not about to buy that argument. But how is all of that relevant to an RPG campaign? Just imagine a campaign in which the local monarch has broken with the local religious leader over such an issue. He then requires his followers to take oaths that basically indicate that they swallow an argument like the preceding. Whether they agreed with his position or not, most people would probably be a bit queasy about the self-serving purpose to which that argument was put. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 23:58:52 -0500 (CDT) From: CronoCloud@webtv.net (Ron Rogers) Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting There are weapons control laws in some Mystaran cities. You know tying weapons in sheaths or leaving them at guardhouses that sort of thing. If I remember correctly carrying a weapon unbound in Specularum, Karameikos is a crime in itself. Shade and Sweet Water CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) aka Elcalear Dracul, Elven Knight of the Grand Duchy/Kingdom of Karameikos, Licensed Necromorph Exterminator. Dracologist of the Fourth Circle (Gold) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:53:42 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Ron Rogers wrote: > There are weapons control laws in some Mystaran cities. You know tying > weapons in sheaths or leaving them at guardhouses that sort of thing. > If I remember correctly carrying a weapon unbound in Specularum, > Karameikos is a crime in itself. > IIRC, in Glantri you need a licence for almost everything, included armor and weapons. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:15:35 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights > activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What > usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but > never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like > gun licensing or something. > > But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's > with the people. While you can't avoid the existance of evil people, you can avoid the existance of evil people armed with guns. > > BRINGING THIS ON-TOPIC: > > It seems that most Mystaran countries allow citizens to bear arms, having > fewer restrictions even than the U.S. does. What if there were a rash of > mass-murders? Granted the situation is a little different, since you have > to work a little harder to massacre 20 children with a sword than with a > gun. But what if this resulted in arms controls? It could make for some > interesting roleplaying. > > Of course, magic could be abused even more than guns. A few mid-level > magicians with some magic missiles and fireballs could kills dozens of > people, or burn half a village. A few lunatic mages could result in magic > being outlawed. > It could be possible, but do not forget that using magic requires more training than using weapons. This should have two effects. First, estabilished mages can control (to a certain degree) who becomes a mage, by "teaching only the worthy". Second, after you passed a lot of years learning magic, you don't want to go on a suicidal mission (you have more important things to do, such as research). The tipical lunatic mage is more the Bargle type. However, I would suggest that the ban applies only to destructive magic (Necromancy and Invocation in AD&D terms), since banning all magic would be like banning all metallic tools instead of guns only. Giampaolo Agosta PS By the way, I remember now that wizard spellcasting is outlawed in Threshold and Kelvin. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:27:52 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > Whoa! Saying its the gun's fault is just as imbecilic as saying it is the > fault of an rpg or a trenchcoat! Yes and no. Individual shooting may or may not be gun's fault, but there *is* significant empiric and statistical evidence, that proves the connection between the availability of guns and shooting kills. - Markus P.S. Cigarettes don't kill people either. RPG:s do. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:31:15 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) You are now WAY far from the original point. The point is temples, religions... Europeans and Americans are not religions. Jamuga Khan wrote: > > Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and > take > > up another. The underlying truth does not change. > > Most Europeans and Americans wouldn't agree today. > > And what can change over the centuries can cause a dispute > between contemporary groups. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:34:28 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Interesting question, actually I did something with bannings in Darokin. As the characters were going through Corunglain, they happened to walk through a political debate. One candidate was trying to oust the traditionalist with, "There is no reason for anyone to own a weapon as powerful as a heavy crossbow or a 2-handed sword..." Sort of a humorous play on modern events. Harvey, Michael wrote: > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights > activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What > usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but > never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like > gun licensing or something. > > But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's > with the people. > > BRINGING THIS ON-TOPIC: > > It seems that most Mystaran countries allow citizens to bear arms, having > fewer restrictions even than the U.S. does. What if there were a rash of > mass-murders? Granted the situation is a little different, since you have > to work a little harder to massacre 20 children with a sword than with a > gun. But what if this resulted in arms controls? It could make for some > interesting roleplaying. > > Of course, magic could be abused even more than guns. A few mid-level > magicians with some magic missiles and fireballs could kills dozens of > people, or burn half a village. A few lunatic mages could result in magic > being outlawed. > > Mike > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:35:17 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Colorrado Incident Thread Wow! Thank you Mr. Admin! Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Mystarans, > I know we are all upset at the unfortunate incident in Colorado; > not only was it a senseless tragedy, but it also was fodder for > the media to attack two groups that had no real involvement in > it all: gamers and goths. You will notice that I did not step in > and stop the thread, because even though it is off-topic, it is > hardly something that can be ignored. Feel free to discuss it > further, as long as it is all in a calm, rational manner. Don't > use it as an opportunity to whip out your cultural or national > biases, or I will have to hand out warnings like they were candy. > We're all adults here (I think : ), so let's keep things polite. > > Leroy Van Camp III > malacoda@lesbois.com > ICQ #20039817 > > "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." > > Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:41:31 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Agathokles wrote: > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > > > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > > > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > > > Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights > > activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What > > usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but > > never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like > > gun licensing or something. > > > > But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's > > with the people. > > While you can't avoid the existance of evil people, you can avoid the > existance of evil people armed with guns. But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed citizen is not a threat. Quite the opposite, he helps insure that bad guys keep their actions within some amount of reason, and he helps insure the local government stays within reason as well. I've often wondered if Mystara is not a much better representative of fantasy, given its Renaissance bent, than the other more totalitarian fantasy worlds (yes, I know, Mystara has its share of totalitarian governments, but I think you get what I mean). In other words, is it reasonable to have an absolute monarchy in which the citizens all own weapons comparable to the monarch's army? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:42:18 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Incorrect. The statistical evidence shows less crime in states that have liberalized (meaning less) gun restrictions. Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > > Whoa! Saying its the gun's fault is just as imbecilic as saying it is the > > fault of an rpg or a trenchcoat! > > Yes and no. Individual shooting may or may not be gun's fault, but there > *is* significant empiric and statistical evidence, that proves the > connection between the availability of guns and shooting kills. > > - Markus > > P.S. Cigarettes don't kill people either. RPG:s do. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:20:45 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - survival kits At 21.32 22/04/99 EDT, Magistar2@aol.com wrote: >Hi i was just wondering exactly what is in the DM/PC survival kits? Two of the worst accessories ever made for Mystara, probably even worst that G:KoM (Marco?) :-) Now, seriously. Players's Survival Kit - - A useful dictionary of common names from the many antions of the KW, - - A simple (very simple) guide to heraldry, - - Several nice handouts including a Diploma of the Karameikan School of magic, a Letter of Marque, a Darokinian CLOC... - - A quick system to generate PC's family - - Some scketched B&W maps of the KW - - Fame&Fortune cards - - An Adventurer's log too nice to be used :-) DM's Survival Kit - - Magical items cards - - Deck of the spheres - - Dwarvish, Elvish and Magescript alphabet - - A few maps (typical tavern, typical wizard tower...) - - Other almost useless (IMO) handouts for DMs - - A Campaign Log IMO the Player's Survival Kit is not bad, while the DM's one is almost useless. ************** Fabrizio "'Brizio" Paoli brizio@gdr.net - rafiel@geocities.com - ICQ #1688817 Mystaran Almanac Assistant - Aerospace Enginner http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:50:33 -0400 From: Dan Groves Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting At 12:27 PM 4/24/99 +0300, you wrote: >> Whoa! Saying its the gun's fault is just as imbecilic as saying it is the >> fault of an rpg or a trenchcoat! > >Yes and no. Individual shooting may or may not be gun's fault, but there >*is* significant empiric and statistical evidence, that proves the >connection between the availability of guns and shooting kills. > There are three types of lies - "Lies, Damned lies, and statistics". A friend of mine pu ton his webpage a study he did, using ratings HCI applied to each state (from a F- for Vermont because they don't regulate the carry of firearms there (yay! there is some sense in the U.S.!) to an A for Nebraska (and one or two others) that ban concealed carry) and the crime statistics for the year those ratings were given. Crime statistics were taken from the FBI. And he plotted them. There is no correlation between the regulation of concealed carry and crime rates. Because of things like this: New Hampshire (where I live now) was given an F, and has the second lowest crime rate in the U.S. (and incidentally lower than most Canadian provinces) Pennsylvania (where I'm originally from btw) was given an F also. It has a very high crime rate. Nebraska which I believe was given an A, had a low crime rate. New Jersey was given an A- and has a very very high crime rate. If you want, I'll dig up the url where he posted it. Dan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:37:11 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting >But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed >citizen is not a threat. Quite the opposite, he helps insure that bad guys keep >their actions within some amount of reason, and he helps insure the local >government stays within reason as well. Well, if weapons are everywhere, the bad guys will have weapons too, so no one gains (except possibly the gravediggers). As the governmental part - that is more of a reason, I suppose, but that kindof implies a right to armed revolution if the citizenry dont agree with the government... Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:33:26 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? In a message dated 23/04/99 21:06:02 GMT Daylight Time, solmyr@kolumbus.fi writes: > >TRADE!!!! > >Sorry but we have a free exchange of ideas system here. If you want the > >Glantri info your going to have to accept it for free. :) > > > Trade Glantri stuff? Are you mad? Glantri stuff must be greedily hoarded and > treasured, for it is the most precious possession you could ever have. > Especially the sacred scriptures known as "GAZ3", which were written by that > holiest of the holy, Bruce Heard. If you get it, you shall be immediately > elevated to the ranks of the chosen few, for it is a book of which not even > the Immortals are worthy :) > Hey, great!! Now I'm not only "cool" (with the Trailmaps on my wall), but also amongst the Ranks of the Chosen Few!! Heh...and my Mother always said I was wasting my money on D&D stuff....:-D Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:07:29 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) >> Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and >take >> up another. The underlying truth does not change. Heck, it wasn't particularly "moral" for the law to favor a male heir over a female one -- the reason he'd wanted a new wife was to have a legitimate son, IIRC -- in the first place! However, I'm not sure it's a question of one side being good, and the other being evil. Both sides were TRYING to be good -- to do what they'd believed was morally right -- yet slipped into, not "evil" (i.e. spiteful or malicious) behavior, so much as "neutral" (i.e. pragmatic) behavior. That's actually a much more common source of conflict, IRL, than deliberate evil, if you ask me. If there's going to be an absolute standard of Good and Evil in your campaign, you need to allow for a big stretch of Neutrality in between these extremes. THAT'S where the kind of things which benign religions disagree with each other about -- divorce, church property, ordination of women, etc -- tend to lie, in the spectrum of moral/ethical issues. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:36:43 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting >Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights >activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What >usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but >never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like >gun licensing or something. No, it's unlikely that guns will ever be banned in the U.S. What I'm hoping for is that this tragedy will kill the bills which the gun industry - -- scared spitless by the liability-fees "Big Tobacco" has been hit with -- is promoting, that would exempt gun manufacturers from class action suits. That way, gunmakers will FINALLY have to start incorporating such basic precautions as locks and grip-safeties into all firearms, just as auto-makers finally started recalling defective cars and including airbags in steering wheels, when civil lawsuits reared their ugly heads. >It seems that most Mystaran countries allow citizens to bear arms, having >fewer restrictions even than the U.S. does. Not to mention the irony that most commoners in medieval cultures -- European or Asian -- weren't allowed to own so much as a sword! That's why there were so many weapons derived from agricultural implements (flails, most pole arms) in medieval times, and why martial arts flourished in the Far East. >Of course, magic could be abused even more than guns. A few mid-level >magicians with some magic missiles and fireballs could kills dozens of >people, or burn half a village. A few lunatic mages could result in magic >being outlawed. There's a scene in Simon Green's "Hawk and Fisher" series -- they're gritty, captivating books; basically an American police action/drama like "Homicide: Life on the Street", but set in a fantasy-world city -- where the husband-and-wife team of beat cops has to stop a "sniper" from blasting and polymorphing and disintegrating everyone on a busy stretch of street. The sniper turned out to be a teenage invoker whose girlfriend had just dumped him. He'd killed her in a flash of rage, then totally lost it -- and "gone postal" -- rather than admit she was dead. (He animated her corpse in a frantic act of denial, then began zapping everybody in sight so his "true love" wouldn't be taken from him.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #184 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, April 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 185 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapons control (Was O-T: Colorado Shooting) [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 14:43:17 -0500 From: "Timothy R. Haney" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Daly > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed > citizen is not a threat. Interesting thread but I did want to comment on this. I find any person with a gun a threat. I don't know if he's lawful or not. You can't read a person's mind. All you know is he has a weapon. Assuming we're talking about a handgun, a weapon who's sole purpose is to kill another human being. So I don't see how a lawful person with a gun is anything but a threat. I've known too many lawful people that just happen to get very angry once and shoot their wife, brother inlaw, kid, or themselves. So many guns in so many hands creates a feeling of fear. You don't even feel safe with the police since they feel that fear just as much if not more. If it was the evil people being killed, maybe it would make sense. But going to the funeral of a five year old who died with a bullet to the head from a gun owned by a man who never suggested he was capable of such an act makes you wonder why handguns are even made and sold. Timothy R. Haney galwylin@airnet.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 02:57:50 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Weapons control (Was O-T: Colorado Shooting) In several the campaigns I've played (and run) weapons weren't controlled so much as monitored. There are several things in the D&D/Ad&D worlds you'll have to remember. 1: Not EVERYONE can afford weapons. Remember starting money (or even equipment) has been saved up over a "lifetime" Not everyone can afford a long or broadsword, with the most common "poor" weapons being things commonly found (to me those would be staffs, bows, daggers/knifes, etc). A peasent farmer or townsman has too many other bills to pay (taxes (and remember, the KW DOES have taxes), food, family, etc) to be paying it on weapons. If he does have an expensive weapon it'll be used more for home or store security. 2: The City Guard, milita, police, whatever. Outside of a dagger or shortsword how much of it is REALLY concealible in a normal persons hands? yeah he can hide it in a bundle or under a cloak, I think the guard would be trained to spot something like that though. 3 (aka 2b): If you take the fact that weapons are on the high scale of ownership (not everyone can afford them) then unless you have a LARGE number of adventurers running around, people in armor and weapons are going to be noticed. The city guards will stop and ask them questions (hm...your wearing platemail in this peaceful town, why?)...the normals are going to stop and gawk (exp if they've seen very few people outside of the guards like that) and generaly if they don't know you, you will be noticed. True your going to have cities who are less obseverent (in a city with 2,000 adventurers coming and going it would be kinda hard), there are goign to be percautions though. Perhaps weapons above a certain size taken at the city gate. More city guard patrols where "adventurers" hangout. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 21:21:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control > BRINGING THIS ON-TOPIC: > > mass-murders? Granted the situation is a little different, since you have > to work a little harder to massacre 20 children with a sword than with a > gun. But what if this resulted in arms controls? It could make for some > interesting roleplaying. I think you answered your own massacre example by bringing up magic. I think it would be very interesting if a society came up with magic-control laws or devices to prevent such abuses. It would certainly make for a different setting. Has anyone done anything along these lines? - - Mischa The end of racism wouldn't solve black problems; it would only make the solutions possible -- William Raspberry,1984 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 22:59:49 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > BRINGING THIS ON-TOPIC: > > > > mass-murders? Granted the situation is a little different, since you have > > to work a little harder to massacre 20 children with a sword than with a > > gun. But what if this resulted in arms controls? It could make for some > > interesting roleplaying. > > I think you answered your own massacre example by bringing up magic. I > think it would be very interesting if a society came up with magic-control > laws or devices to prevent such abuses. It would certainly make for a > different setting. Has anyone done anything along these lines? > > - Mischa > The Dark Sun campaign kind of does this. In all cities,save the city of Tyr, it is against the law to be a mage or cast mage spells with the punishment being death. IMC most cities have some sort of restriction on the casting of magic. Whether it is that magic can't be cast on the street or all mages must register when they enter a city. In most cases it also makes a crime worse if magic is involved. It is a bit harder to ban clerical spells, even Glantri couldn't manage that one forever. It works well putting some restrictions on magic,at least IMC. It makes the mages think twice before casting that web spell in the middle of town. This means that they can't stop the person that might have picked their pocket, they have to chase them. I love a good chase scene ;). This would also explain why so few mages live in big cities. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:22:01 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Multiverse and Mystara Jamuga Khan wrote: > > In Mystara Space there is different gravity, less air, and lots of > > cold. The wayI convert the two of them is not to convert them. If you > > have read any of the Spelljammer stuff it is accepted that there are > > some pretty odd things in Wildspace.....why not a sphere that has > > different laws of fantasy physics? This would explain why there are no > > known records of Spelljammer incursions into Mystara. They would enter > > the sphere, the lower decks would get tossed about, they would lose all > > their air, and turn into spelljammer-cicles :) Ships leaving Mystara > > would only have to deal with the gravity issue and the fact that they > > travel so slow compared to spelljamming ships. > > Really?? > > I thought that the spelljammers were incredibly slow compared to > voidships - at least at interplanar speed. > Voidships are only faster when they are free of the gravity of a system. In the flow they would move at a speed faster than light but it would take them much longer to get there. In the CoM Box it says that it but traveling insystem might take a month or more. So if you were traveling from Toril to Krynn the spelljammer would make it out of greyspace first, the voidship would wizz past it in wildspace and the spelljammer would pass it in Krynnspace beating it to Krynn by a month or so. In normal combat voidships are faster only if a low level mage is at the helm of the spelljammer. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:52:21 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > >Yes and no. Individual shooting may or may not be gun's fault, but there > >*is* significant empiric and statistical evidence, that proves the > >connection between the availability of guns and shooting kills. > There are three types of lies - "Lies, Damned lies, and statistics". Yes I agree. That depends on how-you-read-them. > taken from the FBI. And he plotted them. There is no correlation between > the regulation of concealed carry and crime rates. There may be no connection between that (don't know, but I believe you). BUT there *IS* a connection between the availability of guns and shooting kills. It may also be true (as Jeff said) that easy legal access to firearms lowers the crime rates, but it doesn't counter my statement taken from Finnish newspapers. Of course both pacifists and RU-groups want to twist the statistics and researches their way. ON-TOPIC As for the using of magic in maniacal civilian murders, remember the Glantrian ELF and FAERY terrorist groups. Suicidal fireball-attacks and such are indeed very efficient ways to employ pressure against governments. > Dan - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:17:54 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Hola! I like gnomes...no I LOVE gnomes, apparently the only gnome kingdom, other then tiny highforge, is the island of Oostdock in the hollow world, I don't have hollow world or the knowledge or moola to find it, therefor are there any webpages that have any info on Oostdock? Me gusta gnomos! Adios! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 15:31:37 +0100 From: "Hoddie" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock > Hola! I like gnomes...no I LOVE gnomes, apparently the only gnome kingdom, > other then tiny highforge, is the island of Oostdock in the hollow world. What about Serraine? Hardly a kingdom I know, but probably the most fun Gnome settlement known. Hoddie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:34:46 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock In a message dated 4/25/99 10:34:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk writes: << What about Serraine? Hardly a kingdom I know, but probably the most fun Gnome settlement known. >> what is serraine? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 11:41:58 EDT From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock In a message dated 4/25/99 11:37:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Magistar2@aol.com writes: << what is serraine? >> Serraine's a flying city of gnomes and other air-borne creatures detailed in the D&D accessory PC2 (?): Top Ballista. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 13:19:37 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock >In a message dated 4/25/99 11:37:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >Magistar2@aol.com writes: > ><< what is serraine? >> > >Serraine's a flying city of gnomes and other air-borne creatures detailed in >the D&D accessory PC2 (?): Top Ballista. PC2 should still be available from online used game suppliers. Be warned that it's VERY tongue-in-cheek, and many of its jokes are dated now that the motion picture "Top Gun" has grown a bit stale. ;-D If you can't find a copy of PC2, the Flying City of Serraine is also (briefly) described in one of the "Poor Wizard's Almanac" books ... the third one, IIRC. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:54:59 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Munchkinism > IYC, right? I haven't seen any rules dealing with this...Of course > the original message was just for laughs; even though my cousin > thinks it's a perfect explanation! Of course. The example of your cousin is the best truth why not to handle it that way. There was a negative example though. A dwarf (D8 per level) level 8 had 72 hit points. It was rolled fair, but of course everybody had problems to believe it really. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #185 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 186 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons Fw: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons [MYSTARA] - Completely off-topic: Sorry. Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:23:18 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > There's nothing these kids were reading, playing, listening to, or watching > on TV that Alice Cooper and the 1970s slasher-films didn't expose a > previous generation of kids to ... kids, who never unleashed the kinds of > senseless IRL violence America's been suffering, again and again. All > that's different is the grotesquely easy access such borderline nut-cases > -- of any age -- now have, in the U.S., to powerful firearms. I'll be > writing to the Post as well ... just as I'm sure gamers and Goths across > the country have been ... and if the article's author has any shame, the > newspaper will turn its attention away from spurious connections, and try > advocating the enforcement of safety-locks for guns. > > Sharon D., who's as outraged as anyone We all should be outraged. I have read that the U.S. president plans to make stronger laws against weapons, and the weapon lobby is strongly opposing it. We have many role-players in Europe too, but that does not mean that we all are going rampaging - perhaps because of stronger weapon laws in most European countries. At least role-playing is not the reason for such terrible deeds. More probably the reason are all those TV series we all see day for day. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:34:55 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Religion on Mystara > There is a lesson there, about what I mean when I say "underlying morality". > I'm not certain I can make it any clearer than to say, "Poking Jamuga in the > eye, for no reason whatsoever, would be morally wrong in any good religion." How hard and how deep? Well, it's good to have an ideal, and it might be cynic but I simply don't believe that there is such like a "underlying morality" in real life, at least nothing really working. And to circle back to Mystara and role-playing: I believe that it were ridiculous to enforce a concept in a fantasy world which don't work in the real world. Of course we can introduce organizations in Mystara which have the aim to support this "underlying morality". But they should not be too successful. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:44:28 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > Trade Glantri stuff? Are you mad? Glantri stuff must be greedily hoarded and > treasured, for it is the most precious possession you could ever have. > Especially the sacred scriptures known as "GAZ3", which were written by that > holiest of the holy, Bruce Heard. If you get it, you shall be immediately > elevated to the ranks of the chosen few, for it is a book of which not even > the Immortals are worthy :) Oh come, don't overdo it! O.k., as a stand-alone product it's fine, but in the whole Mystaran context is it one of worst products ever published. It's nearly impossible to integrate it into the other stuff, and should only 10 % of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide to settle in Glantri we could throw away nearly all informations about Glantri. Jamuga Khan "This statement was inspired by a love to the Ethengar Khanates, but this was definitely not the sole reason, perhaps not even the main one." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:50:24 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > ((No offense meant, national generalizations of course exclude every > individual, though they may work on the national level!)) > > The problem is not the gothics, it is the Americans. > > When the British lunatic shot a classroom of schoolkids, the British > banned firearms. > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > If the British lunatic were an American lunatic and would have shot a > classroomful of kids, the Americans would probably have banned a) being > a lunatic b) schools c) probably the both. > > > Remember the Holy Truth, the Whole Truth and nothing but the Truth: > firearms do not kill people; rpg:s do. > > - Markus, frustrated and temporarily a cultural racist I'm sure that our U.S. (ex-) friends won't like this, but I believe that this is the truth nevertheless. As a whole it's a clear proof for the effectiveness and handling of fire-weapons. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:05:40 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons I've talked with a friend about the introduction of fire weapons IRW. He's a historian and is well versed in such things. 1. It's easy to learn firing a rifle. Even superstition and being used to firing bows/crossbows did not pose too much problems. After being telled the handling and firing some shoots everybody can use a fire weapon. 2. It's much faster to learn using a fire weapon than any weapon before. Swords and bows need years of training while learning firing a gun requires only some months or even weeks. This is even true for the loading cycle of the first fire weapons. 3. Fire weapons are effective. Like longbows they were effective against the armoured knights usually used in these times. But, as somebody already had mentioned, longbows were available only to England. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:22:40 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault One of the reason D&D got a bad rep is because when it shortly after it first came out it became a huge hit with most college students. Soon after that people started dressing like there characters and thinking that the game was real ( note: some did this because they were mentally disturbed or because there friends did it), Soon after some one killed several college students while dressed up in there regalia (the reason why is not known) many non players thought that this new game had caused the killers to think that it was real and that they thought real life was the game (however I think it was a mere coincidence however some people are easily very impressioned). So then more people thought that these game players could even be a cult! as you can see things got blown out of proportion. Stewart the 3rd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:26:28 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Thankyou I also think he went overboard over my proposal also Ive found some one to sell me one. So thankyou for your responces Stewart the 3rd - -----Original Message----- From: Jamuga Khan To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 4:55 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >> Trade Glantri stuff? Are you mad? Glantri stuff must be greedily hoarded >and >> treasured, for it is the most precious possession you could ever have. >> Especially the sacred scriptures known as "GAZ3", which were written by >that >> holiest of the holy, Bruce Heard. If you get it, you shall be immediately >> elevated to the ranks of the chosen few, for it is a book of which not >even >> the Immortals are worthy :) > > >Oh come, don't overdo it! > >O.k., as a stand-alone product it's fine, >but in the whole Mystaran context is it >one of worst products ever published. > >It's nearly impossible to integrate it into >the other stuff, and should only 10 % >of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide >to settle in Glantri we could throw away >nearly all informations about Glantri. > > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"This statement was inspired by a love to the Ethengar Khanates, >but this was definitely not the sole reason, perhaps not even the >main one." >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:32:29 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons just a note that dosnt really have to much to do with this but, early on men or troops were digraced because of the simpple training of the gun compared to the years of crossbows and that originally some guns actually fired missiles like bolts for crossbows!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Jamuga Khan To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 5:22 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons >I've talked with a friend about the introduction of >fire weapons IRW. He's a historian and is well versed >in such things. > >1. It's easy to learn firing a rifle. Even superstition > and being used to firing bows/crossbows did > not pose too much problems. After being telled > the handling and firing some shoots everybody can > use a fire weapon. > >2. It's much faster to learn using a fire weapon than any > weapon before. Swords and bows need years of training > while learning firing a gun requires only some months > or even weeks. This is even true for the loading cycle of > the first fire weapons. > >3. Fire weapons are effective. Like longbows they were > effective against the armoured knights usually used > in these times. But, as somebody already had > mentioned, longbows were available only to England. > > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:03:55 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons >I've talked with a friend about the introduction of >fire weapons IRW. He's a historian and is well versed >in such things. > >1. It's easy to learn firing a rifle. Even superstition > and being used to firing bows/crossbows did > not pose too much problems. After being telled > the handling and firing some shoots everybody can > use a fire weapon. > >2. It's much faster to learn using a fire weapon than any > weapon before. Swords and bows need years of training > while learning firing a gun requires only some months > or even weeks. This is even true for the loading cycle of > the first fire weapons. > >3. Fire weapons are effective. Like longbows they were > effective against the armoured knights usually used > in these times. But, as somebody already had > mentioned, longbows were available only to England. Wow, someone agrees with me - thanx Jamuga (and Jamugas Friend) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:20:16 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons I do agree that the weapons are pivotal but more as a siege or similar attack not as an adventuring weapon for fighting your occasional monster because of the time to fire and the upkeep needed on it i.e. cleaning the barrel which many forget and the price for arming it in AD&D - -----Original Message----- From: Rob To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons > > >>I've talked with a friend about the introduction of >>fire weapons IRW. He's a historian and is well versed >>in such things. >> >>1. It's easy to learn firing a rifle. Even superstition >> and being used to firing bows/crossbows did >> not pose too much problems. After being telled >> the handling and firing some shoots everybody can >> use a fire weapon. >> >>2. It's much faster to learn using a fire weapon than any >> weapon before. Swords and bows need years of training >> while learning firing a gun requires only some months >> or even weeks. This is even true for the loading cycle of >> the first fire weapons. >> >>3. Fire weapons are effective. Like longbows they were >> effective against the armoured knights usually used >> in these times. But, as somebody already had >> mentioned, longbows were available only to England. > > >Wow, someone agrees with me - thanx Jamuga (and Jamugas Friend) > >Cheerz > >Rob > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:22:03 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Fw: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons I do agree that the weapons are pivotal but more as a siege or similar attack not as an adventuring weapon for fighting your occasional monster because of the time to fire and the upkeep needed on it i.e. cleaning the barrel which many forget and the price for arming it in AD&D Stewart the 3rd >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob >To: mystara-l@mpgn.com >Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 6:15 PM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fire Weapons > > >> >> >>>I've talked with a friend about the introduction of >>>fire weapons IRW. He's a historian and is well versed >>>in such things. >>> >>>1. It's easy to learn firing a rifle. Even superstition >>> and being used to firing bows/crossbows did >>> not pose too much problems. After being telled >>> the handling and firing some shoots everybody can >>> use a fire weapon. >>> >>>2. It's much faster to learn using a fire weapon than any >>> weapon before. Swords and bows need years of training >>> while learning firing a gun requires only some months >>> or even weeks. This is even true for the loading cycle of >>> the first fire weapons. >>> >>>3. Fire weapons are effective. Like longbows they were >>> effective against the armoured knights usually used >>> in these times. But, as somebody already had >>> mentioned, longbows were available only to England. >> >> >>Wow, someone agrees with me - thanx Jamuga (and Jamugas Friend) >> >>Cheerz >> >>Rob >> >>************************************************************************** * >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:28:39 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Completely off-topic: Sorry. I hereby apologize my generalizing rant against the US political system. The intention was not to offend anyone in person, even though I find many political and judicial systems very strange and non-ethical. While I still retain my opinions on what I said, I do not want to offend anyone's person or beliefs or patriotism. Generalizations were strong to ensure that everyone understood they were *generalizations*. If someone wants to hear more about my offended and offending opinions, I will discuss further privately. This list is not the place. - Markus Montola P.S. I am a pacifist. I saw how people handled weapons in the Finnish military. ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:31:35 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault In a message dated 4/25/99 5:43:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: << So then more people thought that these game players could even be a cult! as you can see things got blown out of proportion. >> Also, there was a real stupid movie about it, a whole expose on its evil evil evilness of it all...truly evil. One more thing, ever since I started playing D&D my grades have gone from Bs to As, I am healthier, happier, friendlier and more religious as well as less violent. Not to mention an increase in my vocabulary and history (my knowledge of AD&D actually has caused by to get a 115 average in my world history class, not to mention how my campaign in the Aztec lands helped me with Mexican culture). So it must be evil! Oh, one more thing, the people were not killed, but were lost...while high on LSD...maybe thats why they were not well liked (my library teacher made me do a report on it, boy did it get her mad!) Well anyway, D&D is a hobbey, and its perfectly fine when people treat it as such, I know this one kid who is now pale white, ninety pounds who hasn't showered in a while and spends his days in some sort of D&D haze...I don't like him...:-) Anyway, just to keep it Mystara related, I'm working on a Thyatis campaign expansion in AD&D, any ideas? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 18:56:09 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Thanks for informing on the LSD:-o! and I have some ideas on Thyatis e-mail me. Oh and I have extensively expanded my dictionary of names of clothes and names for certain medieval objects for me to! Stewart the 3rd - -----Original Message----- From: Magistar2@aol.com To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault >In a message dated 4/25/99 5:43:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: > ><< So then more people thought that these game players could > even be a cult! as you can see things got blown out of proportion. >> > >Also, there was a real stupid movie about it, a whole expose on its evil evil >evilness of it all...truly evil. One more thing, ever since I started >playing D&D my grades have gone from Bs to As, I am healthier, happier, >friendlier and more religious as well as less violent. Not to mention an >increase in my vocabulary and history (my knowledge of AD&D actually has >caused by to get a 115 average in my world history class, not to mention how >my campaign in the Aztec lands helped me with Mexican culture). So it must >be evil! Oh, one more thing, the people were not killed, but were >lost...while high on LSD...maybe thats why they were not well liked (my >library teacher made me do a report on it, boy did it get her mad!) Well >anyway, D&D is a hobbey, and its perfectly fine when people treat it as such, >I know this one kid who is now pale white, ninety pounds who hasn't showered >in a while and spends his days in some sort of D&D haze...I don't like >him...:-) >Anyway, just to keep it Mystara related, I'm working on a Thyatis campaign >expansion in AD&D, any ideas? >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:11:33 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault the book was Ronald Jafe's Mazes and Monsters (gee, not really trying to hide it huh?) and the movie was made for TV staring a then unknown Tom Hanks. Pesonaly I think D&D was blamed because it's in people's memories more. Talk to any non-player about RPg's and his answer will more then likely be "oh, like D&D" It's become as ingrained in our culture as Star Wars and Star Trek. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:32:25 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock >PC2 should still be available from online used game suppliers. Be warned >that it's VERY tongue-in-cheek, and many of its jokes are dated now that >the motion picture "Top Gun" has grown a bit stale. ;-D > >If you can't find a copy of PC2, the Flying City of Serraine is also >(briefly) described in one of the "Poor Wizard's Almanac" books ... the >third one, IIRC. Last I checked, it was still available from TSR site. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:00:00 +0100 From: "Hoddie" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock Serraine I believe it was mentioned in the first Poor Wizard's almanac. I seem to remember a giant's footprint in the mountains? We used the city once in an old campaign and it was great fun testing some of the Gnome inventions. I wonder what has happenned since the gnomes were expelled? Hoddie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 21:21:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Oostdock In a message dated 1999-04-25 21:06:36 Eastern Daylight Time, pjh@ephtl.demon.co.uk writes: > Serraine > > I believe it was mentioned in the first Poor Wizard's almanac. I seem to > remember a giant's footprint in the mountains? > > We used the city once in an old campaign and it was great fun testing some > of the Gnome inventions. > > I wonder what has happenned since the gnomes were expelled? Since the gnomes were the majority of the population of Serraine, expelling them would have been quite a feat. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:49:26 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault >the book was Ronald Jafe's Mazes and Monsters (gee, not really trying to >hide it huh?) and the movie was made for TV staring a then unknown Tom >Hanks. I vaguely recall hearing that Rona (not Ronald) Jafe's son actually disappeared, for a few weeks, after he'd been chewed out by his family for coming out of the closet. The persistant rumor that he'd slinked off into the steam tunnels beneath his college -- where he and his friends had often gone to smoke pot and play proto-LARPs -- got started, when she hired a private investigator to track down her "runaway" son. The P.I. found out about his gaming hobby, and played upon on his mother's fears with stories of "evil games in dark tunnels underground", in order to justify hitting her up for more $$$. :-P As it turned out, the young man had been living with an occasional (adult) boyfriend of his, the whole time he was missing. Naturally this wasn't something his mom -- who'd hounded him out of the house for being gay, in the first place -- was going to admit, either to herself OR the newspapers, so she's been publicly and privately blaming AD&D for "leading her dear boy astray", ever since. (With a mom like that, who NEEDS an RPG, to drive them nuts...? :-l ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:00:48 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault I stand corrected. I do recall seeing a book by the P.I. at the local library that was supposed to be the "real" story behind it. has anyone ever read Norton's Quag Keep? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Dornhoff To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 12:49 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault > >the book was Ronald Jafe's Mazes and Monsters (gee, not really trying to > >hide it huh?) and the movie was made for TV staring a then unknown Tom > >Hanks. > > I vaguely recall hearing that Rona (not Ronald) Jafe's son actually > disappeared, for a few weeks, after he'd been chewed out by his family for > coming out of the closet. The persistant rumor that he'd slinked off into > the steam tunnels beneath his college -- where he and his friends had often > gone to smoke pot and play proto-LARPs -- got started, when she hired a > private investigator to track down her "runaway" son. The P.I. found out > about his gaming hobby, and played upon on his mother's fears with stories > of "evil games in dark tunnels underground", in order to justify hitting > her up for more $$$. :-P > > As it turned out, the young man had been living with an occasional (adult) > boyfriend of his, the whole time he was missing. Naturally this wasn't > something his mom -- who'd hounded him out of the house for being gay, in > the first place -- was going to admit, either to herself OR the newspapers, > so she's been publicly and privately blaming AD&D for "leading her dear boy > astray", ever since. > > (With a mom like that, who NEEDS an RPG, to drive them nuts...? :-l ) > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #186 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 187 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG) Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG) RE: [MYSTARA] - Weapons control (Was O-T: Colorado Shooting) [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:22:19 +0100 From: "Jacob Skytte" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Current projects >>I've come across a list of clan heads in the Northern Reaches. I was >> wondering if any of >you know of any work being done on these >> personalities. If not then I'm planning to flesh >them out >> considerably... > > Ariel, when he developed the Marauders, did a little bit of history for > their clan (in Soderfjord). I'm not sure if they're from the Gaz or not, > but you're welcome to check it out. Follow the link to "The Marauders > and the Stalkers," at > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/nonint.html The page won't load correctly, unfortunately. Probably the setup of the computer here at the university. But am I correct in assuming that this is a single clan, and that it is not one of those mentioned as "official" clans in the Players Book of GAZ7? If so then there is plenty of space for work here. And I'll get to it if and when I find the time. Right now I'm immersed in lots of projects - Mystaran and non-Mystaran, hobby- and work-related. Geez, I don't even know how I find the time to read all my mail, much less answer it! :) Jacob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:27:09 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > Agathokles wrote: > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > > > > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > > > > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > > > > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > > > > > Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights > > > activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What > > > usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but > > > never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like > > > gun licensing or something. > > > > > > But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's > > > with the people. > > > > While you can't avoid the existance of evil people, you can avoid the > > existance of evil people armed with guns. > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed > citizen is not a threat. People don't go around with labels saying "I'm a lawful citizen". You cannot distinguish a lawful citizen from crazed killer. Quite the opposite, he helps insure that bad guys keep > their actions within some amount of reason, and he helps insure the local > government stays within reason as well. > > I've often wondered if Mystara is not a much better representative of fantasy, > given its Renaissance bent, than the other more totalitarian fantasy worlds (yes, > I know, Mystara has its share of totalitarian governments, but I think you get > what I mean). > > In other words, is it reasonable to have an absolute monarchy in which the > citizens all own weapons comparable to the monarch's army? > No and it is really uncommon a state where this situation exists, even in other political systems. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:02:59 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Arms Control On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Jerry Hovenanian wrote: > > > > I think you answered your own massacre example by bringing up magic. I > > think it would be very interesting if a society came up with magic-control > > laws or devices to prevent such abuses. It would certainly make for a > > different setting. Has anyone done anything along these lines? > > > > - Mischa > > > > The Dark Sun campaign kind of does this. In all cities,save the city of Tyr, > it is against the law to be a mage or cast mage spells with the punishment being > death. IMC most cities have some sort of restriction on the casting of magic. > Whether it is that magic can't be cast on the street or all mages must register > when they enter a city. In most cases it also makes a crime worse if magic is > involved. It is a bit harder to ban clerical spells, even Glantri couldn't > manage that one forever. It works well putting some restrictions on magic,at > least IMC. It makes the mages think twice before casting that web spell in the > middle of town. This means that they can't stop the person that might have > picked their pocket, they have to chase them. I love a good chase scene ;). This > would also explain why so few mages live in big cities. > The availability of psionics in the Dark Sun campaign allows such anti-magic laws. That's why no Mystaran country could last long with a ban against clerical or wizard magic. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:54:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > >)I don't think I can be that moral. You have to be a person your > >congregation can respect. Practically everybody has sinned - they > > might not feel themselves deserving of such respect. > > I dont think this one aplise to all Mystaran churches. not all relegions > are as totalitarian as ours, Mischa, and fewer things are considered > "sins". I wouldn't call the major religions in the world totalitarian. Few have ways to punish someone for not following the commandments but rather rely on divine justice. You're right about this one, but remember that immortals can directly deprive priests of power in Mystara and that many immortals are selective in who they trust. While some are less totalitarian, some are also moreso. > the church of Ixion for ex' might want its priest to preform > ceremonies several times a day and "always battle darkness" and fight > undead but I whould think their wont be laws conscerning every aspect of > life like in judaism. It would be fun to draw up such tenets for a group which would have them though. Hmm...any thoughts, anybody? > but in a world where there are miracles all around more people would be > awed and will want to become priests, as they wont have douts about the > existence of deities in their wourld as we do. You'll always find doubters. Look at Alphatia, where the deities earn little respect from the magi. Just as on Earth, you can't "prove" G-d's existence. > but a problam you didnt mention for priests on Mystara you didnt mention > is "what immortal should I chose?" as some societis i.e. Thyatis are > very tolerable, there is alwais more than one option on which church to > follow. to some people this will come naturaly , but some will be in > serious theological dilemas, as all religions in thier wourld are "real" > but some dont go along with others. True. Great campaign fodder. Oo..my .sig is on-topic for once, sorta. - - Mischa Gelman Pittsburgh, PA The Religious Right is trying to saw a two-by-four with a hammer. People know that something needs to be fixed, but are searching for the right tools to fix it. Right now the Christian Right claims to have the only tools. But more and more of us aren't sure that they really do - evangelical church leader from Michigan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:43:41 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG) Foreword This timeline takes into consideration the official TSR sourcebooks for Mystara ("canon") as well as Ohad Shaham's original idea about the gnomes of the elements and the sea-gnomes timeline. Thanks to Ohad and Geoff Gander for their contributions and ideas. DM Gnomish Timeline 3060 BC: Garal Glitterlode creates a new species he calls Gnomes and places them in the outer fringes of Evergrun, near the south pole. These are the ancestors of the Ice Gnomes. 3000 BC: The Great Rain of Fire hits Mystara and the planet shifts on its axis, causing the poles to cover new previously inhabited areas. Earthquakes, storms and volcanic eruptions abund everywhere. (HW) 2900 BC: Seeing that his creation, the gnomes, are in great danger and have little chances of surviving, the Immortal Garal creates another stock of gnomes (much like Kagyar will do with dwarves) and places them in Brun (Rockhome and Northern Reaches area). These gnomes prove to be more tinkering and more versed in fantasy physics than the first breed. However, the first breed is tougher and more resourceful than what Garal predicted and they manage to survive, migrating from Evergrun to Vulcania and beginning their new life in that harsh land. Some of them are common earth-gnomes while others begin to live very close to volcanoes or high up in the mountain caves. 2700 BC: Within two centuries, two different cultures develop among the gnomes who live in Vulcania and the clans split. The so called Ice Gnomes live up the mountains in inhospitable conditions, but thanks to their particular stamina they have now become masters of the cold climates (somewhat between Icevale Elves and Kogolor dwarves). The second group is an offshot of the Ice Gnomes who has adapted to live inside the volcanoes, using and benefitting from the hot energies of the gases and the elemental plane of fire. Some of them have even invented a technology capable of traveling through any wormhole in a volcano and pop out in the Elemental Plane of Fire, so there are gnomes in that plane too. These are called Fire Gnomes (they are unknown to anyone but the Ice Gnomes and Thimhallan). The two groups do not go along well with each other because of their different biases. (Ice Gnome: Fire is bad: remember the Great Rain of Fire! Fire Gnome: What the heck are you talking about? Fire makes life confortable!) 2500 BC: Gnomes living in the Rockhome area start exploring the neighbouring sites. Some of them move permanently in the Northern Reaches when the ice sheet recedes, establishing both seaside aboveground and underground complexes (the Falun Caverns) where they live. Others migrate at the foothills of the Cruth Mountains and settle south west of Rockhome territory (in what will be later called Darokin). Among these are the gnomes who will found the city of Serraine. Gnomes keep contacts with the dwarves living in the Northern Reaches area. 2000 BC: Antalians move south to nowadays Vestland. The gnomes keep away from the humans. 1800 BC: The old dwarven race is replaced by Kagyar with the modern dwarves. Some of them are placed in Rockhome, where they will eventually found their kingdom in BC 1400. Others inhabit the mountains of Vestland and Soderfjord: these dwarves (the ones in the Northern Reaches) call themeselves "Modrigswerg". They have not yet been tainted by the Dark Elves by this time. (HW) 1500 BC: To the south, the Nithian culture begins its climb to greatness. Pflarr creates the Hutaaka and puts them in the southern Altan Tepes mountains. (HW) 1100 BC: The Nithian Empire expands in all directions. Colonies are settled in islands nowadays known as the Isle of Dawn, Minrothad and Ierendi. On the land the Nithians push south into nowadays Thyatis and north into the Northern Reaches. First contact is made with the dwarves and gnomes. (HW) 1060-1050 BC: Antalians and dwarves with bronze technology fall before the Nithias with their iron and magic. Humans are enslaved, while dwarves get killed for resisting. Half the gnomes of the Falun clan are taken to the dungeons of Nithia for arcane magical experiments. To be noted that this clan is made of earth-gnomes and so called sea-gnomes, who are experts at sailing and building ships (much like the Minrothad sea-elves). The other half (mostly earth-gnomes) manage to avoid capture by retreating deep into their cavern complex and devising new traps to hinder the Nithian conquerors. First Gnomish Exodus: Gnomes flee to avoid the Nithian persecution and their gruesome experiments. Many flee where the Nithians haven't gone yet, that's to say Davania.. and the more southwards the better. They avoid landing on the Jungle Coast (Nithian colonies there - at its peak the Nithian Empire stretched from the Isle of Dawn to the Savage Coast and from Norwold to the Jungle Coast) and sail until they arrive in the Vulture's peninsula - the Empire of Varellya at that time. They are however mistaken for halflings or halfling-kin and after the first squabbles erupt, the gnomes move inland and resettle south of the Aryptian desert in a secluded valley. [*] 1050 BC: Evil Nithian necromancers research a way of creating a servitor race resembling the Hutaakans by reincarnating gnomes using the blood of trolls. The entire Northern Reaches have been conquered in the attempt to get more specimen. After a few years the first hundred gnomes are turned into gnolls. (GAZ10) 1000 BC: The Nithian experiment goes bad as the gnolls are not submissive as the Nithians predicted. They are strong, barbaric and they bred at a frightening rate. Thousands gnolls break free from their masters and invade the Traldar lands. [**] In Nithia, the remaining gnomes are put to slavery working in the pyramids. 800 BC: The Nithian colony of Thothia experiences a heavy drought. Assistance is needed from the mainland but the Nithian galleys are too slow to bring grain in time. 795 BC: Empress (Pharaoh) Shadla "the Learned" discovers the gnomish slaves affinity to water and their skill with technology. She promises the gnomes partial freedom if they manage to design advanced vessels that do not require rower slaves (at that point in history oceanic vessels were yet to be invented). [***] 773 BC: The gnomes finish building a huge ship shaped as a wood and metal whale. They name it "Leviathan". Pharaoh Shadla is skeptic about putting humans in the ship and is also afraid of losing grain. She orders that the gnomes be put into the leviathan to operate it and to simulate the weight of grain. The Leviathan is set on a test sail accompanied by Nithian war galleys to prevent escape. Once deep at sea the Leviathan suddenly begins to sink in the water. The Nithian captains try to rescue the ship but without success. The truth is that, using their technological knowledge, the sea-gnomes created a submersible ship powered by water elementals and used it to escape slavery. 772 BC: In a fit of rage, Shadla orders the death of hundred gnomes in Nithia. Then she issues a proclamation promising to spare all those gnomes who would have helped the Nithians building sea-going vessels. Many gnomes begin to collaborate with Pharaoh Shadla to save their lives. Those who refuse are put to death. Ranivorous contacts Shadla and she is slowly corrupted by his false promises of greatness. The entropic corruption of Nithia begins. 771 BC: The Leviathan settles on the floor of the Alphatian Sea. Gnomes contact the local sea races and with their help start building an underwater city where to live. 750 BC: After learning all she wanted from the gnomes, Pharaoh Shadla (inspired by Ranivorus) orders all the gnomes living in Nithia to be sacrificed to the gods in order to protect the first great Nithian sea expedition to the west. In fact, her real fear is that gnomes could reveal others the secrets of their skills and Shadla wants to prevent this from occurring. 730 BC: The sea-gnomes finish the construction of the city of Deepreach, an impressive submersed city very similar to Aquas but powered by gnomish technology mainly. With the help of the local merfolk, they begin to explore the Alphatian Sea. 700 BC: Thanatos, Immortal of the Sphere of Entropy, helped by the Immortal Ranivorus, completes the corruption of the pharaoh of the Nithians. The pharaoh turns the Nithian empire toward worship of Entropy. (HW) The Nithian colonists in Thothia turn away from the Entropic faith of their homeland and increasingly turn to a new form of mysticism. (HW) Nithians arrive on the Savage Coast. They interbreed somewhat with Oltecs. (RS) 500 BC: The Nithian Empire, having incurred Immortal dislike, abruptly ends. The Immortals alter the climate, divert the headwaters of the River Nithia, promote social unrest, deny magical powers to their clerics, and take other actions which cause the Empire to collapse catastrophically. The Immortals use magic to ensure that almost all trace of the Empire is wiped from the face of the Known World. The colonies are systematically destroyed - - except for Thothia, which has already turned away from the Entropic faith which led to the destruction of Nithia. (HW) 492 BC: At the battle of Sardal Pass, the humanoids are routed, the orcs utterly massacred. Ubdala dies. Hordes routed south and west, crowding Cruth mountains and Altan Tepes. Gnomes kicked out of their former position in the south and west of Rockhome, where the humanoids spread. (GAZ10) 490 BC: Kobold clans are driven into the uplands of the Northern Reaches from the west. They overrun and exterminate the surviving gnomes living in the Falun Caverns, and occupy their subterranean kingdoms. (GAZ7) The Immortals transport the Valoin Gnomes on a Floating Continent in the HW. (PWA2) 495-490 BC: Second Gnomish Exodus. Many gnomes flee the goblinoid invasions that are rocking the Known World going in two directions: southwards (Davania) and westwards (Hule and the Savage Coast). Many run westwards, where they establish their colonies (the ancestors of the Hulean and Savage Coast gnomes). A few clans build ships and take for Davania instead, settling for a brief period in the Milenian lands. 440 BC: The gnomes living in Davania hear of some strange short fellows, not halflings for sure, dwelling south near the Varellyan empire. They take interest in these rumors and think they could be descendants of the Lost Clans, who according to the legends sailed southwards many centuries before. One third of them moves south to uncover the truth, while the others stay in northern Davania. Contacts with the explorators are lost within the year. [****] 330 BC: After many centuries of natural crossbreeding, the first waterborne gnomes are born in Deepreach. The majority of the sea-gnomes remain normal air-breathing gnomes with an incredible affinity for water and sailing, though. 300 BC: During the exploration of the Sea of Dread, the sea-gnomes of Deepreach discover the Twaelar civilization in the southern area near Tanegioth. After hearing of the misdeeds and corruption of the surface dwellers from the gnomes, the Twaelars wov to mistrust them and to stay away from them as much as possible. This is just one of the causes of the Twaelars' isolation policy which still applies in the present. 251 BC: A legendary gnome craftsman named Glimreen Gemeye discovers a jet engine artifact of the destroyed Blackmoor civilization near Serraine. (PC2) 150 BC approx.: Gnomes start building the flying city. Nagpa and Tabi soon joins the gnomes. (PC2) 91 BC: Sphinxes join the group working on the flying city. (PC2) 14 BC: The outer shell of Serraine is completed. (PC2) 0 AC: Highforge Gnomes settle in Traladara territories. (GAZ 1) 9 AC: Gnomes contact Faenare to join the group that is building Serraine. (PC2) 16 AC: Building of the Great Library of Serraine started. (PC2) 39 AC: On Ambyrmont 1st the Flying City of Serraine makes its maiden flight. (PC2) 91 AC: The Great Library is completed. (PC2) 200 AC: Gnomes from the flying city of Serraine make contact with the Alphatians. Some of them respond to their invitation and remain in the Alphatian continent to establish a colony of earth-gnomes in Stoutfellow. 400 AC approx.: The amazing Gnomish city of Torkyn Fall is destroyed by Dragons. ("Dragonlord of Mystara") V cent. AC: On Serraine the whole Flaemeker clan is hurled into the Void by an experiment went awry. The immortals transport the clan on a Floating Continent in the HW (PWA2) 778 AC: The flying islands of Valoin and Flaemeker collide giving birth to the new flying continent of Oostdok. (PWA2) 978 AC: Heldannic Knights invade Oostdok. (PWA2) 1010 AC: With the help of Alphatia the Gnomes on Oodstok free themselves from the Heldannic Knights. (PWA2) 1011 BC: After Alphatia's sinking and the Behemoth's awakening, numerous problems arise for the sea-gnomes in the Alphatian Sea, including attacks from sea-beholders and new merfolk immigrants. (see Underocean Timeline) 1016 AC: With the Thyatians passing more and more frequently in their seas, the Twaelar fear they will be soon discovered and enslaved, and thus have declare war on the terrestrian, helped by the sea-gnomes living with them. (see Mystaran Almanac AC1016) [*] Once pushed away by the Varellyan, these gnomes split quite by accident. A few of them discovered Thimhallan (city of Technomancy) and went to live there. The others popped up in the Lost Valley and began to brood and to seek revenge against the humans. There is now one gnomish kingdom in the Lost Valley region founded by these fleeing gnomes, who dream one day of returning and freeing their brethren. They have no idea the Nithian Empire collapsed millennia ago, and still think there are enslaved gnomes in the northern continent. All their life has been devoted to build the ultimate weapon to defeat their enemies and once they are sure of their victory, they will head north once again. They are now a very dark folk, obsessed with the past and their flight (a sense of guilt is also haunting them and they want to atone by killing their old enemies -similar to Feadiel clan) and bent over a personal vendetta. As for the object of this revenge, it was primarily the old oppressors (Nithians), but as the years have passed and the experiences with the humans have taught them, the entire human race is to be blamed for their suffering (they may have got clues about the humans' involvement in the Great Rain of Fire as well). First Nithians, then Varellyans and now the human race (at least until a human culture proves its valor and trustworthiness, something which has not yet happened - after all, after thousand years passed in a segregated valley, there haven't been so many opportunities to meet new people). [**] There is a very interesting note to make here. If the gnolls were created in BC 1050 (as HW says), that means they bred into the thousands within 50 years (according to HW)! Assuming a few years to get to the Traldar lands, and several more for word of the war to spread (so Milen can flee), we're looking at no more than 40 years or so between the conversion of gnomes to the appearance of a great horde. If this is correct, then the Nithians would have to have carried out mass alterations (unless it's possible that gnolls could breed so much) - so a lot more than hundred gnomes would have to be captured. Two theories can be used to describe what happened. The first is that gnolls really breed too fast, even though this doesn't explain why the Known World is not yet overwhelmed with gnolls by now. The second one involves a bit more of imagination. It deals with Outer Planes and basically we can assume that the creation of the gnolls took place in an outer plane where time flows faster than on Mystara (there are many). The Nithians didn't want to risk anything with their magical mass-breed alteration and so decided to run their experiment in an outer plane connected to Nithia via wormholes. Unfortunately for them, the gnolls were able to fight off their control and rebelled, then found the wormholes and many of them used them to reach Mystara before all the gates could be closed. So the gnolls' invasion came to pass only 50 years after their creation, while in fact 200 years had passed in that Outer Plane (the creation process required a great deal of time and was later followed by a decades long attempt to teach the gnolls the basics of the nithian culture, obviously with nefarious results: the gnolls gained too much willpower and intelligence to rebel against their masters). [***] By BC 1,000 the Nithians had colonies on the Isle of Dawn, Ierendi and Minrothad, and this could have been achieved even without seagoing vessels (the Phoenicians were master sailors but didn't have oceanic vessels). However, by BC 700 the Nithians were already in the Savage Coast, so even if the Nithians hadn't ocean-going vessels by BC 795, they certainly invented them by the middle of the eighth century. The sea-gnomes' knowledge was indeed used to produce fine sea-going vessels that helped the Nithians become master sailors as well. [****] These gnomes actually stumbled upon a very interesting site during their trek and stopped there. In this secluded valley not far from the Diamond Ring, they found a very precious mineral (Mystara's version of adamantium) and started mining it out. However, they were soon attacked by great metallic beings who seemed to patrol the area and were forced to flee. The truth is that there are some Mek Masters buried under this specific location in the Vulcanian range. The meks who patrol the area saw the gnomes' excavations as assaults to their masters and their duty was to blast them. But the gnomes were not discouraged by the first losses and tried to regain their mine during the next decades. After the first disastrous battles the gnomes devised a countermeasure to fight off the meks: earthshakers. Originally they built three samples (one being the mecha depicted in CM4) and used them against the meks. However, these proved extremely bulky, difficult to control and took too much time to build. So they went with a new design, trying to scale things down. After centuries of failed projects and useless junk, they managed to capture a mek and to dismantle it in order to study it. They were finally able to produce their own version of meks: Advanced Gnomish Exoskeleton Battle Armors (AGEBA), basically smaller earthshakers manned by one gnome only stationed inside the mecha. The AGEBA is average 6' to 7' in size, so a gnome is quite confortable inside it. The only problem with these mecha is that they tend to break up and loose pieces quite often during the battle, and the gnome pilots are not so quick at using them to respond to the meks' attacks. For this reason there is a secret project going on in this gnomish clan (possibly with the help of some gnome technomancer from Timhallan) to update and modify the AGEBA into the new-era superior combat chassis: the EVA (Empathic Variform Armor), a more resilient battle armor made with the special mineral the gnomes have been able to mine out so far. Theorically, it should be capable of adapting itself to its pilot's mental orders much like an external part of his body, but each pilot has to be "magically" attuned to each armor before using it. It's still under construction though... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:44:24 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:58 +0300 (EET DST), Harri Mäki wrote: <> Err.. well, not to be mean or obnoxious, but well, eh eh, "Azzo" is not a name I'd use, not in Italy at least. It's the short (or slang) version we use to say.. uhmm, well, there's nothing like this in English, but it's something similar to SH*T.. I advise u to change the name into something like Angelo, Lorenzo or Giacomo or maybe even Astolfo (old style). DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:24:41 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, DM wrote: > On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:10:58 +0300 (EET DST), Harri Mäki > wrote: > > > <> > > Err.. well, not to be mean or obnoxious, but well, eh eh, "Azzo" is not a > name I'd use, not in Italy at least. It's the short (or slang) version we > use to say.. uhmm, well, there's nothing like this in English, but it's > something similar to SH*T.. I advise u to change the name into something > like Angelo, Lorenzo or Giacomo or maybe even Astolfo (old style). > > DM > I definitely didn't know that. I didn't invent it myself but took it from real person. I don't exactly remember in which medival town there was a ruler of that name, maybe Modena or Milano. But I think Astolfo sounds find. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:05:34 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG) [snip] Nice work DM :) It's good to see a completely different take on the Vulcanian gnomes. I had completely forgotten about using Meks in my works beyond the War of the Earthsakers. Oi.. Thanks for reminding me. have to keep the Snartans on their toes :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:42:27 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Weapons control (Was O-T: Colorado Shooting) 4 (aka 2c): if a crime is committed, such as a murder, and it obviously involved the use of weapons, then anyone who has been seen carrying weapons will be an immediate suspect. Imagine the adventuring party being questioned and possibly arrested every time someone is murdered in the theives' quarter? Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:54:05 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep > has anyone ever read Norton's Quag Keep? I tried but I don't think I ever finished. IMO it was poorly written, and didn't seem to conform to D&D rules anyway. Though it did make me wonder what Gygax's personal Greyhawk campaign was like; I've heard that it differed quite a bit from the published version. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:19:57 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 >Err.. well, not to be mean or obnoxious, but well, eh eh, "Azzo" is not a >name I'd use, not in Italy at least. It's the short (or slang) version we >use to say.. uhmm, well, there's nothing like this in English, but it's >something similar to SH*T.. I advise u to change the name into something >like Angelo, Lorenzo or Giacomo or maybe even Astolfo (old style). > Hmm. Then you are saying that many medieval Italian nobles were named "sh*t"? Azzo was a pretty common name among them... ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:15:28 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >Oh come, don't overdo it! > I'm not overdoing it. Really :) >O.k., as a stand-alone product it's fine, >but in the whole Mystaran context is it >one of worst products ever published. > >It's nearly impossible to integrate it into Why is that? I've had no problems integrating it. >the other stuff, and should only 10 % >of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide >to settle in Glantri we could throw away >nearly all informations about Glantri. > Should only 5% of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide to settle in Ethengar, there won't even *be* Ethengar anymore, there would be the Thyatian colony of Ethengaricus :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:12:29 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 He means that it is now and it is not a good idea to be named that today remember he said slang not a real word and remember that Thyatis dosnt have quite that many wizards they have more fighters. - -----Original Message----- From: Solmyr of the Azure Star To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 4:02 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 >>Err.. well, not to be mean or obnoxious, but well, eh eh, "Azzo" is not a >>name I'd use, not in Italy at least. It's the short (or slang) version we >>use to say.. uhmm, well, there's nothing like this in English, but it's >>something similar to SH*T.. I advise u to change the name into something >>like Angelo, Lorenzo or Giacomo or maybe even Astolfo (old style). >> >Hmm. Then you are saying that many medieval Italian nobles were named >"sh*t"? Azzo was a pretty common name among them... > >****************** >Aleksei Andrievski >aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star >aka Azure Star Dragon >solmyr@kolumbus.fi >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #187 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, April 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 188 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - Weapons in Fantasy Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Newly Awakened Gun Control Thread [MYSTARA] - MISC: ShoreCon '99 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:50:32 -0700 From: harold@wizards.com (Harold Johnson) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep Yeah, I read it. It wasn't on a par with other Andre Norton stories, and I'm a big Norton fan. But I didn't find it bad. It was one of the first attempts at adapting a fantasy game to a novel format and pre-dated TSR's own novels by nearly 8 years. Though I only played in Gary's campaign a few times, it seemed that he didn't take himself seriously and willing mixed fantasy with science fiction with english literature, with historical tales and mythology. Gary did work with Norton while she was writing the book and actually ran a gaming session for her to help inspire the story. Whether you find the book wonderful or weak, it did mark an important turning stone in the world of adventure games. Harold "Wisconsin" Johnson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:34:39 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Hi, I just got the hollow world boxed set...were in it is Oostdock! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:37:04 -0400 From: Bruce Pierpont Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault So now I'm mentally disturbed because I attend ren faires in costume? Dressing up doesn't make some one disturbed, rampaging through a school with semi-automatic weapons makes you disturbed. D&D has a bad rep because some woman's kid committed suicide and she and the police blamed D&D because they didn't understand it. This woman founded B.A.D.D. (Bothered About D&D) she and some of her colleagues invented several cases whole cloth to base their movement on, and blamed any murder/suicide they could find on D&D. Only once did anyone ever claim that D&D made him kill someone. He later stated that he said that only to see if he could get a lesser sentence. I'm afraid I can't seem to find the page that lists this story (its the link everyone has been talking about, supposedly at miningco.com) redrobyne wrote: > > One of the reason D&D got a bad rep is because when it shortly after it > first came out it became a huge hit with most college students. Soon after > that people started dressing like there characters and thinking that the > game was real ( note: some did this because they were mentally disturbed or > because there friends did it), Soon after some one killed several college > students while dressed up in there regalia (the reason why is not known) > many non players thought that this new game had caused the killers to think > that it was real and that they thought real life was the game (however I > think it was a mere coincidence however some people are easily very > impressioned). So then more people thought that these game players could > even be a cult! as you can see things got blown out of proportion. > > Stewart the 3rd > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:35:52 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hi, I just got the hollow world boxed set...were in it is Oostdock! If memery serves me it isn't in the box set. It was in Voyage of the Princess Ark that was published after the box set. It is also in the PWAs. - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 23:16:11 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) > You are now WAY far from the original point. The point is temples, > religions... > > Europeans and Americans are not religions. > > Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > > Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and > > take > > > up another. The underlying truth does not change. > > > > Most Europeans and Americans wouldn't agree today. > > > > And what can change over the centuries can cause a dispute > > between contemporary groups. O.k., replace it by "European and American Christians". Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:53:02 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A > lawful, armed > > citizen is not a threat. > > Interesting thread but I did want to comment on this. I find any person > with a gun a threat. I don't know if he's lawful or not. You can't read a > person's mind. All you know is he has a weapon. Assuming we're talking > about a handgun, a weapon who's sole purpose is to kill another human being. > So I don't see how a lawful person with a gun is anything but a threat. > I've known too many lawful people that just happen to get very angry once > and shoot their wife, brother inlaw, kid, or themselves. So many guns in so > many hands creates a feeling of fear. You don't even feel safe with the > police since they feel that fear just as much if not more. If it was the > evil people being killed, maybe it would make sense. But going to the > funeral of a five year old who died with a bullet to the head from a gun > owned by a man who never suggested he was capable of such an act makes you > wonder why handguns are even made and sold. A remarkable letter! Bravo to it! We can't ever say if a person with a weapon is really lawful. Some lunatics were known as lawful persons. Nobody knows when this might change or why. Modern weapons, even pistols, are far too effective and too deadly to be allowed for everybody. Reasonable persons don't have a need for weapons, and those persons who are not reasonable should be kept away from weapons at all costs. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:46:48 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Weapons in Fantasy > Not to mention the irony that most commoners in medieval cultures -- > European or Asian -- weren't allowed to own so much as a sword! That's why > there were so many weapons derived from agricultural implements (flails, > most pole arms) in medieval times, and why martial arts flourished in the > Far East. Of course the medieval world was not nearly as dangerous as a fantasy world. Hostile armies, marauders, plagues an so on are worse enough, but a typical fantasy world has to face magical disastrous effects, brutal humanoids, greedy dragons and many more. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:50:17 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > Incorrect. The statistical evidence shows less crime in states that have > liberalized (meaning less) gun restrictions. The statistics I know don't say that. Countries with easy access to weapons see much more murder than those with harsh laws against weapons. Of course there must be seen how good such laws are used. In Germany and AFAIK most European countries it is indeed very difficult to get a weapon. In countries where the policemen can be bribed easily or simply cannot care for the laws as they are too much occupied with other problems the situation is much worse of course. Jamuga Khan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:53:51 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > There are three types of lies - "Lies, Damned lies, and statistics". > > A friend of mine pu ton his webpage a study he did, using ratings HCI > applied to each state (from a F- for Vermont because they don't regulate the > carry of firearms there (yay! there is some sense in the U.S.!) to an A for > Nebraska (and one or two others) that ban concealed carry) and the crime > statistics for the year those ratings were given. Crime statistics were > taken from the FBI. And he plotted them. There is no correlation between > the regulation of concealed carry and crime rates. > > Because of things like this: > > New Hampshire (where I live now) was given an F, and has the second lowest > crime rate in the U.S. (and incidentally lower than most Canadian provinces) > > Pennsylvania (where I'm originally from btw) was given an F also. It has a > very high crime rate. > > Nebraska which I believe was given an A, had a low crime rate. > > New Jersey was given an A- and has a very very high crime rate. > > If you want, I'll dig up the url where he posted it. > > Dan This statement has not too much value as a citizen of a US "A" state can easily travel to an "F" state to buy a weapon. Or are nowadays controls when passing the state's borders? I have never heard that. OTOH when buying a weapon in another country you must face the possibility to be caught when passing the border. So when comparing crime rates and access to weapons in different countries we must compare nations, and not simply part of one nation. Besides, AFAIK crime rates are much higher in densely populated areas with much cities then in sparsely populated rural areas. Contain the cited statistic this fact? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:37:03 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault No but wearing what ever your character wears EVERYWHERE is a bit strange which is what they did Stewart the 3rd - -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Pierpont To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Colorado shooting why D&Ds fault >So now I'm mentally disturbed because I attend ren faires in costume? >Dressing up doesn't make some one disturbed, rampaging through a school >with semi-automatic weapons makes you disturbed. D&D has a bad rep >because some woman's kid committed suicide and she and the police blamed >D&D because they didn't understand it. This woman founded B.A.D.D. >(Bothered About D&D) she and some of her colleagues invented several >cases whole cloth to base their movement on, and blamed any >murder/suicide they could find on D&D. Only once did anyone ever claim >that D&D made him kill someone. He later stated that he said that only >to see if he could get a lesser sentence. I'm afraid I can't seem to >find the page that lists this story (its the link everyone has been >talking about, supposedly at miningco.com) > > > >redrobyne wrote: >> >> One of the reason D&D got a bad rep is because when it shortly after it >> first came out it became a huge hit with most college students. Soon after >> that people started dressing like there characters and thinking that the >> game was real ( note: some did this because they were mentally disturbed or >> because there friends did it), Soon after some one killed several college >> students while dressed up in there regalia (the reason why is not known) >> many non players thought that this new game had caused the killers to think >> that it was real and that they thought real life was the game (however I >> think it was a mere coincidence however some people are easily very >> impressioned). So then more people thought that these game players could >> even be a cult! as you can see things got blown out of proportion. >> >> Stewart the 3rd >> >> *************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >> 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:35:12 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes In a message dated 4/26/99 6:36:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: << It was in Voyage of the Princess Ark that was published after the box set. >> Okay, where is that...I went way out of way! Sheesh! Can someone just help me, I am making a real gnome kingdom south of Minrothad that most people ignored, so could anyone help me? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:48:22 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting The bad guys will have weapons anyway. Bad guys have this nasty tendency to ignore laws. That's another good reason to keep guns legal. Rob wrote: > >But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A > lawful, armed > >citizen is not a threat. Quite the opposite, he helps insure that bad guys > keep > >their actions within some amount of reason, and he helps insure the local > >government stays within reason as well. > > Well, if weapons are everywhere, the bad guys will have weapons too, so no > one gains (except possibly the gravediggers). > > As the governmental part - that is more of a reason, I suppose, but that > kindof implies a right to armed revolution if the citizenry dont agree with > the government... > > Rob > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:49:41 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Religion on Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian clerics) Right, and that is the LAW which favored the male heir over the female one. It wasn't the temple of the god named Britain. Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >> Not really. It was morally wrong for the king to put aside his wife and > >take > >> up another. The underlying truth does not change. > > Heck, it wasn't particularly "moral" for the law to favor a male heir over > a female one -- the reason he'd wanted a new wife was to have a legitimate > son, IIRC -- in the first place! > > However, I'm not sure it's a question of one side being good, and the other > being evil. Both sides were TRYING to be good -- to do what they'd > believed was morally right -- yet slipped into, not "evil" (i.e. spiteful > or malicious) behavior, so much as "neutral" (i.e. pragmatic) behavior. > That's actually a much more common source of conflict, IRL, than deliberate > evil, if you ask me. > > If there's going to be an absolute standard of Good and Evil in your > campaign, you need to allow for a big stretch of Neutrality in between > these extremes. THAT'S where the kind of things which benign religions > disagree with each other about -- divorce, church property, ordination of > women, etc -- tend to lie, in the spectrum of moral/ethical issues. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:51:23 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Do you also find criminals armed with pipe bombs a threat? Do you wish to regulate pipes and keep them out of the hands of minors? Disarming me is just an attempt to remove one freedom, which is a barrier to you taking away all of my freedoms. Timothy R. Haney wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Daly > > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A > lawful, armed > > citizen is not a threat. > > Interesting thread but I did want to comment on this. I find any person > with a gun a threat. I don't know if he's lawful or not. You can't read a > person's mind. All you know is he has a weapon. Assuming we're talking > about a handgun, a weapon who's sole purpose is to kill another human being. > So I don't see how a lawful person with a gun is anything but a threat. > I've known too many lawful people that just happen to get very angry once > and shoot their wife, brother inlaw, kid, or themselves. So many guns in so > many hands creates a feeling of fear. You don't even feel safe with the > police since they feel that fear just as much if not more. If it was the > evil people being killed, maybe it would make sense. But going to the > funeral of a five year old who died with a bullet to the head from a gun > owned by a man who never suggested he was capable of such an act makes you > wonder why handguns are even made and sold. > > Timothy R. Haney > galwylin@airnet.net > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:55:33 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Agathokles wrote: > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed > > citizen is not a threat. > > People don't go around with labels saying "I'm a lawful citizen". You > cannot distinguish a lawful citizen from crazed killer. So you wish to disarm lawful citizens? And that will somehow magically disarm criminals as well? There IS a way to distinguish the criminal from the citizen. Criminals commit crimes. When the government wants to put more controls on citizens, on the "off chance" that one of them might be a criminal, then you better start thinking real hard about the agenda behind the action. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:56:52 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Quag Keep Yeah, it wasn't Mrs. Norton's best work. But it was alright. It wasn't really negative either...not really... Harvey, Michael wrote: > > has anyone ever read Norton's Quag Keep? > > I tried but I don't think I ever finished. IMO it was poorly written, and > didn't seem to conform to D&D rules anyway. Though it did make me wonder > what Gygax's personal Greyhawk campaign was like; I've heard that it > differed quite a bit from the published version. > > Mike > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:05:08 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting If you wish to control yourself, fine. But once you try forcing your beliefs on others (myself in particular) I have a great deal of trouble with it. I think the problem in Colorado was due more to parents who don't teach their children proper respect for guns, than having them available. Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A > > lawful, armed > > > citizen is not a threat. > > > > Interesting thread but I did want to comment on this. I find any person > > with a gun a threat. I don't know if he's lawful or not. You can't read > a > > person's mind. All you know is he has a weapon. Assuming we're talking > > about a handgun, a weapon who's sole purpose is to kill another human > being. > > So I don't see how a lawful person with a gun is anything but a threat. > > I've known too many lawful people that just happen to get very angry > once > > and shoot their wife, brother inlaw, kid, or themselves. So many guns in > so > > many hands creates a feeling of fear. You don't even feel safe with the > > police since they feel that fear just as much if not more. If it was the > > evil people being killed, maybe it would make sense. But going to the > > funeral of a five year old who died with a bullet to the head from a gun > > owned by a man who never suggested he was capable of such an act makes > you > > wonder why handguns are even made and sold. > > A remarkable letter! Bravo to it! > > We can't ever say if a person with a weapon is really lawful. Some > lunatics were known as lawful persons. Nobody knows when this > might change or why. > > Modern weapons, even pistols, are far too effective and too deadly > to be allowed for everybody. Reasonable persons don't have a need > for weapons, and those persons who are not reasonable should > be kept away from weapons at all costs. > > Jamuga Khan > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:24:16 -0700 From: Dave Keyser Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting I guess I will add my comments. After suffering several terrorist incidents in schools, Israel made it a policy to encourage teachers and parents volunteering at the school to carry firearms on the grounds. This is a well- known fact in the Middle East. Since this occured there were two attempts to infiltrate Israeli schools by terrorists, both failed. No one has tried since, and there have been no mass murders committed by students or teachers either(at least in the schools). In the US, the Second Amendment prevents the federal government from banning firearms(so far). Anyone without a felony conviction can buy one. However, laws in almost all the states make it illegal to bring a firearm within 1000 feet of a school. This, of course, deters law-abiding citizens from bringing guns near a school. On a personal note, a friend of mine in Arizona once woke up to hear a half-dozen men banging on the front door and front windows. It was after midnight. They were trying to smash their way in, when he chambered a round in his shotgun. That alone was enough to send them fleeing. Dave Keyser *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:57:44 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 > > <> > > Err.. well, not to be mean or obnoxious, but well, eh eh, "Azzo" is not a > name I'd use, not in Italy at least. It's the short (or slang) version we > use to say.. uhmm, well, there's nothing like this in English, but it's > something similar to SH*T.. I advise u to change the name into something > like Angelo, Lorenzo or Giacomo or maybe even Astolfo (old style). > > DM Well, DM, quite a few people are named Dick, after all ;-) I would suggest changing it to Adzo (it is a medieaval name, Adso in Latin). But, in fact, many Italian nobles from the Renaissance had quite lewd names or surnames, like Coleoni or Cazzolongo. I find those lacking in Glantri and Darokin, and it would be FUN having your PCs forced to avoid laughing when before a powerwul MU with such a name (remember "Life of Brian" movies?) Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:07:42 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes The Princess Ark stories started in #153 of Dragon Magazine I belive, don't honestly remember when they did the Gnomes. Oosdock is supposed to be one of the floating islands inside the Known World, currently it has been taken over by the Heldannic Knights. I'll go through my back issues and see if i can find the ifnormation for you - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes > In a message dated 4/26/99 6:36:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > clumsydwarf@usa.net writes: > > << It was in Voyage of the > Princess Ark that was published after the box set. >> > > Okay, where is that...I went way out of way! Sheesh! Can someone just help > me, I am making a real gnome kingdom south of Minrothad that most people > ignored, so could anyone help me? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:08:33 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Newly Awakened Gun Control Thread Mystarans, I see that the discussion of the Colorado shooting has been transmogrified into a debate over gun control, which is one of those things that is likely to acheive nothing, but very likely to get some people upset. So at this point I think it is time to let the whole thing go. Private e-mail is the best place for further discussion. Thanks. It all went very well; let's keep it that way. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com ICQ #20039817 "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:24:29 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [MYSTARA] - MISC: ShoreCon '99 Greetings. I'm the RPG coordinator for ShoreCon '99, which will be held on September 9-12 1999 at the Hilton in Cherry Hill, NJ. In that capacity, I'm looking for GMs (and players, too) for RPG events at the convention. The deadline for event submissions is June 1st, and by visiting our website at you can find complete information on hotel accomodations, online GM registration (now guaranteed to work!), and even get on the mailing list to have our pre-registration book sent directly to you. If you are interested in GMing an event, the time to sign up is now! This year ShoreCon will will be having several special guests, including Peter Adkison (President and CEO of WotC/TSR), Steve Jackson (President of Steve Jackson Games) and Jolly Blackburn (creator of Knights of the Dinner Table)! We'll also be boasting Target Games' 1st Annual Games Expo, several LARPs (Vampire, Star Wars, and Toon!), as well as a large selection of RPGs, CCGs, Miniature events and Network Gaming! Thanx for your time... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #188 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, April 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 189 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - The ORIGINAL Judges Guild is BACK! Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 3 Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - Funny names (was: House of Sirecchia, part 2) Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Newly Awakened Gun Control Thread Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:47:29 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) At 08:07 AM 4/27/99 -0500, Daniel wrote: >The Princess Ark stories started in #153 of Dragon Magazine I belive, don't >honestly remember when they did the Gnomes. Oosdock is supposed to be one of >the floating islands inside the Known World, currently it has been taken >over by the Heldannic Knights. I'll go through my back issues and see if i >can find the ifnormation for you You know, I think that the information about which issues of Dragon had the Princess Ark stuff is common eneough that it would be a good addition to the Mystara FAQ. If there was a brief run-down of what areas were covered in each issue it would be more helpful. Jenni - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:04:32 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) I'll see what I can start - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenni A. M. Merrifield To: Cc: Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) > > At 08:07 AM 4/27/99 -0500, Daniel wrote: > >The Princess Ark stories started in #153 of Dragon Magazine I belive, don't > >honestly remember when they did the Gnomes. Oosdock is supposed to be one of > >the floating islands inside the Known World, currently it has been taken > >over by the Heldannic Knights. I'll go through my back issues and see if i > >can find the ifnormation for you > > You know, I think that the information about which issues of Dragon had > the Princess Ark stuff is common eneough that it would be a good addition > to the Mystara FAQ. If there was a brief run-down of what areas were > covered in each issue it would be more helpful. > > Jenni > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs > strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ > <------------------------------------------------------------------> > God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. > Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" > And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:57:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hi, I just got the hollow world boxed set...were in it is Oostdock! It isn't. Oostdok was a later creation by Bruce heard. Personally I still don't understand where the piece of serraine broke off, given the map in PC2. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:57:55 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomes On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 Magistar2@aol.com wrote: > Hi, I just got the hollow world boxed set...were in it is Oostdock! It isn't. Oostdok was a later creation by Bruce heard. Personally I still don't understand where the piece of serraine broke off, given the map in PC2. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:25:15 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 In a message dated 1999-04-26 16:10:31 Eastern Daylight Time, redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: > and remember that Thyatis dosnt have quite that many wizards they have more > fighters. Actually I would bet that the same is true in Glantri -- the composition of the Glantrian army suggests that Glantri has many times more warriors than wizards available for service. And Thyatis does have a fair number of wizards -- but since Thyatians tend to respect combat effectiveness, they will have far more admiration for a wizard who fries the enemy with fireballs than for a "sissy" who relies on illusions, charm spells, or detection spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:20:06 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - The ORIGINAL Judges Guild is BACK! And what does this mean for Mystara? Well, not much, but for Mystara Fans who have always wanted a copy of The First Fantasy Campaign, by Dave Arneson (i.e., the ORIGINAL Blackmoor DA1 Module), it could mean a lot... As they apparently have some available for sale, at a mere $12 each! Here's their URL... http://www.judgesguild.com/ Tons of other stuff is available as well... all at GREAT prices (when I think of how much I spent putting my JG collection together)... :( Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:13:50 +0300 (EET DST) From: Katri Wallenius-m{ki Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 > Well, DM, quite a few people are named Dick, after all ;-) I would suggest > changing it to Adzo (it is a medieaval name, Adso in Latin). But, in fact, > many Italian nobles from the Renaissance had quite lewd names or surnames, > like Coleoni or Cazzolongo. I find those lacking in Glantri and Darokin, > and it would be FUN having your PCs forced to avoid laughing when before a > powerwul MU with such a name (remember "Life of Brian" movies?) OH YES! I agree... I´ve always named my PC's like that.. I mean I try to make their names sound like "proper" which they actually aren´t (Stupidix Idiotiscu etc). And as a DM I name my NPCs like that aswell... - -- ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, ¤ Katri ¤ it would be: but as it isn't, it ain't. ¤ kw50538@uta.fi ¤ That's logic. ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ -Tweedledee- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:23:33 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting This is a long-debated thread, that usually put most european on one side and most american on the other one. Removing the debate on how to change american laws (which frankly I don't care about; if you are happy with these ones, it is your choice) there is something NEARLY in-topic that I think can be added. The main difference in having free weapons around the town or not is basically due to whether or not the culture of the country you are in is a "frontieer" one. I mean with "fronteer" a country where the "official" law is not fully able to defend the citizens, and cannot deny to these citizens the right to defend themselves. Sometimes (as, for instance, in the Texas of Far West) it has to demand the citizens to do so, because no real law officer is in the place. This is -I think- the main cultural bias that will make most european think that the only one allowed to shoot is a policemen, and most american that there is a (constitutional in the US! I boggle at that!) right to have a weapon in your home. My personal opinion is that you will have "Colorado" problem in a country where even a child can go to the school with a gun. Now look at the Mystara controlling weapon laws. In Glantri City you need a (highly expensive) license to have weapons in town, and another one to be able to use offensive or dangerous spells (the equivalent of weapons) in town. IN Specularum,. it is just the same... while every adventurer is expected to have a weapon and to be able to defend himself, there are "peaceful" spot in the country where only the authority is allowed to do that,,, thus identifying criminal has the one walking in the street withb a crossbow. Yes, I know, just rambling. Sometimes it happes... I am writing so rarely. :) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:36:32 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark Some time ago, someone claimed to have collected all the material appeared in the different Dragons number about the Princess Ark in one (or more) file. I have the Chapions of Mystara game, but this is not as complete as the original articles. Is the author of the collection still around? Could I have a copy by private e-mail? 0:-))) - -- Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:01:05 +0300 (EET DST) From: Harri M{ki Subject: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 3 Lucchino di Sfonti Astolfo's successor as Viscount was his 47-years old uncle Lucchino. This was the last time di Sfonti's were unanimous when selecting the new leader of the family. Whereas all his brothers were fighters, he was more like his father Matteo. He was by far most intelligent of the brothers and consequently his father had given him the best education of the lot. From the very early age he had been with his father in his negotiations during the Fourty Years War and it was sheer good luck that Lucchino wasn't with his father when he was captured. After that he was family's negotiator during his brother's leadership and was only possible choice for parliament representative after the war. When Alexander Glantri was murdered in AC 835 there was no question amongst the Thyatian and Kerendan nobles that Lucchino should succeed him as their representative in Council. Lucchino was also chosen to succeed Alexander as the Chancellor of the Council, because Wilhelm von Drachenfels who was only alternative refused the position. Lucchino now used his position to bring architects from the Thyatis to build a new town of the Lizzieni in the area where his folks lived. He constructed Lizzieni to replacement for Oreggiano as main town in the area. Lizzieni was filled with marble buildings and great avenues. He also began the building of Circus Lizzieni in AC 838. Lucchino was loved by common people but he had his enemies also. Soon after assuming the viscountship he drove Astolfo's young sycophants out of Sirecchia. This got him some very dangerous enemies. But it was not till AC 849 than they succeeded. Lucchino was murdered in the age of 62, when he was opening newly-built Circus Lizzieni. Giovanni di Sfonti Selecting Lucchino's successor wasn't anymore easy. He didn't have any child, so main contenders were his only living brother Giovanni and Borso, son of his deceased brother Mario. Mario has been older than Giovanni and Borso put his claim on that fact. After much quarrelling Giovanni was chosen. Giovanni was 59-years old when chosen. He was already somewhat fat and had always been clumsy, ugly and slow-moving. In the horseback he was mainly embarassing. Lucchino had also been somewhat fat, but he had been good rider. Selection of Giovanni was mostly caused by the reason that most of his relatives thought him more easy to control than young Borso. For his great surprise Giovanni was also chosen to succeed his brother as a Chancellor, because that time nobody else wanted the position. Giovanni however showed himself to be a good Chancellor and Viscount. He surprised everyone. He was more independent and intelligent than nobody had suspected. He had always been in the shadow of his brothers and now he showed to everyone one that he has talents too. Giovanni also continued Lucchino's lavish building plans in Lizzieni, which nearly destroyed his finances. In AC 850 childless Lucchino adopted his older sisters Filippa's son Matteo to confirm his succession. Everyone had waited him to name Borso to his successor but Giovanni showed his independence also in this question. He chose Matteo because he had shown no interest in ruling. Giovanni died in bubonic plague in AC 854 in the age of 64. Matteo di Sfonti Matteo was 36-years old, when Giovanni died. His position was not secure, because Borso and his supporters were against it. However House of Lords confirmed his position as new Viscount. His selection as a representative in the Council was also contested by Alexius Glantri. But other Thyatians and Kerendans favoured more him than somewhat arrogant Alexius. He was chosen as a Treasurer of the Council. Matteo's father and mother had died in the last years of the War and he had been raised by his uncle Lucchino. He had realised boy's intelligence and decided to make him a magic-user. Matteo was handsome, lively and pleasant mannered man. Everyone waited very much from him. His murder in AC 855 was a great shock to everyone in Glantri. Borso di Sfonti Matteo's murder was followed by furious infighting among his relatives to gain the leadership of the house. During the first three months of AC 855 about 20 close and not so close relatives of Matteo disappeared or were murdered. At the end only one contender was left in Sirecchia to present his claim to viscountship: Matteo's 35-years old cousin Borso. He was also chosen to be representative in the Council in spite of Alexius Glantri's protestations. He succeed Matteo also as a Treasurer. Borso's father Mario had died in AC 826 and he was also raised by Lucchino and also raised as a magic-user. He had been very good friend of Matteo until Giovanni had chosen Matteo as his successor. Borso had inherited his father's and uncle's tendency to fatness, but was however attractive and cultured. It was difficult for people to believe that he was behind his relatives murders and disappearances, but appearances can be deceiving. Inside he was vindictive and petty-minded and very power-hungry. Borso also had something his predecessors didn't have since Galeazzo. Borso had married in AC 840 Barbara Löwenroth, daughter of one Hattian baron from the north. And they had a son Galeazzo. So Borso had a legitimate heir. Which was especially important after the Light of Rad decision and the establishment of the Principality of Caurenze. Borso proved to be a good ruler in his principality. People generally liked him and he managed balance the finances of both Caurenze and Glantri after the brief rebellion in AC 859. There were some restlessness in Caurenze, but nothing very serious. In the Council Borso supported enfeoffment of both Nouvelle Averoigne and Klantyre in 875. He was not in friendly relations with Etienne d'Ambreville but he recognised his power and understood the benefits of his becoming a Prince. In his last years Borso also called his last living cousin Bernabo to Sirecchia from Thyatis. He was not sure about his son capabilities and informed that if he would die before Galeazzo was 30-years old Bernabo should succeed him as a Prince. Borso died in AC 878 at the age of 58 for food-poisoning. Everyone suspected at first murder but there was found no proof of that. Harri Mäki hihama@uta.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:13:24 EDT From: Magistar2@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark In a message dated 4/27/99 3:40:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pignatelli@pd.astro.it writes: << but this is not as complete as the original articles. Is the author of the collection still around? >> Yeah, I would really like the one from 163, I here that one has gnomes! One more thing, how much has Oostdock been detailed??? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:50:40 -0400 From: Bruce Pierpont Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting I found this link on the page of a comic strip I read daily called User Friendly... http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml Its an interesting commentary on how gun control, violent tv, video games, D&D, and goths aren't really the real issue. I thought some people might like to read it, both as a defense for their, well essentially, their lifestyle, and as an understanding of what's really going on. Agathokles wrote: > > On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Jeff Daly wrote: > > > > > > > Agathokles wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > > > > > > > When the Amerikan lunatic goths shot a kid, the Americans will more > > > > > probably ban being gothic and everything even distantly related (like > > > > > sadomasochist, role-player or even SciFist), than ban the firearms. > > > > > > > > Nah, they'd never get away with *banning* anything. Too many civil rights > > > > activists to let that happen. I doubt guns will be banned either. What > > > > usually happens is that politicians and various groups argue and argue but > > > > never really do anything except to propose some sort of restriction, like > > > > gun licensing or something. > > > > > > > > But like Jeff said, the problem isn't with the guns or the legislation, it's > > > > with the people. > > > > > > While you can't avoid the existance of evil people, you can avoid the > > > existance of evil people armed with guns. > > > > But its a knee-jerk reaction to a symptom, rather than the cause. A lawful, armed > > citizen is not a threat. > > People don't go around with labels saying "I'm a lawful citizen". You > cannot distinguish a lawful citizen from crazed killer. > > Quite the opposite, he helps insure that bad guys keep > > their actions within some amount of reason, and he helps insure the local > > government stays within reason as well. > > > > I've often wondered if Mystara is not a much better representative of fantasy, > > given its Renaissance bent, than the other more totalitarian fantasy worlds (yes, > > I know, Mystara has its share of totalitarian governments, but I think you get > > what I mean). > > > > In other words, is it reasonable to have an absolute monarchy in which the > > citizens all own weapons comparable to the monarch's army? > > > > No and it is really uncommon a state where this situation exists, even in > other political systems. > > Giampaolo Agosta > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 20:59:29 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Funny names (was: House of Sirecchia, part 2) >like Coleoni or Cazzolongo. I find those lacking in Glantri and Darokin, >and it would be FUN having your PCs forced to avoid laughing when before a >powerwul MU with such a name (remember "Life of Brian" movies?) > Yeah. Have them meet a Thyatian senator named Biggus Diccus and throw their butts to the arena if they so much as let out a snicker :) ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:07:38 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Some good points here. If we think of them in terms of Glantri, Darokin, Thyatis, and Alphatia as "civilized" or perhaps a better term "older civilizations", vs the more frontier countries like Karameikos and the Savage Coast...then we get a glimpse, perhaps, of what is realistic for attitudes among the countries. I think it is further realistic to suggest that all governments will tend to seek more and more control of any kind, especially over a citizens ability to defend himself against a government that might make a future negative decision. And just a slight correction...the right to keep and bear arms, the right to defend oneself, is considered a right endowed by the Creator, merely recognized by the Constitution. Actually, I suppose that is more of a clarification than a correction. Ezio Pignatelli wrote: > This is a long-debated thread, that usually put most european on one > side and most american on the other one. Removing the debate on how to > change american laws (which frankly I don't care about; if you are happy > with these ones, it is your choice) there is something NEARLY in-topic > that I think can be added. > > The main difference in having free weapons around the town or not is > basically due to whether or not the culture of the country you are in is > a "frontieer" one. I mean with "fronteer" a country where the "official" > law is not fully able to defend the citizens, and cannot deny to these > citizens the right to defend themselves. Sometimes (as, for instance, in > the Texas of Far West) it has to demand the citizens to do so, because > no real law officer is in the place. > > This is -I think- the main cultural bias that will make most european > think that the only one allowed to shoot is a policemen, and most > american that there is a (constitutional in the US! I boggle at that!) > right to have a weapon in your home. > > My personal opinion is that you will have "Colorado" problem in a > country where even a child can go to the school with a gun. > > Now look at the Mystara controlling weapon laws. > > In Glantri City you need a (highly expensive) license to have weapons in > town, and another one to be able to use offensive or dangerous spells > (the equivalent of weapons) in town. IN Specularum,. it is just the > same... while every adventurer is expected to have a weapon and to be > able to defend himself, there are "peaceful" spot in the country where > only the authority is allowed to do that,,, thus identifying criminal > has the one walking in the street withb a crossbow. > > Yes, I know, just rambling. Sometimes it happes... I am writing so > rarely. :) > > -- > Ezio Pignatelli - Dipartimento di Astronomia - Padova > Tel: +39-49-8293459 - Fax: +39-49-8759840 > mailto:pignatelli@pd.astro.it http://leda.pd.astro.it/~epignat > -- > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:02:25 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Newly Awakened Gun Control Thread Consider it done sir! *snaps a sharp salute* And thanks for the temporary relaxed rules policy. Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Mystarans, > I see that the discussion of the Colorado shooting has been > transmogrified into a debate over gun control, which is one of > those things that is likely to acheive nothing, but very likely > to get some people upset. So at this point I think it is time to > let the whole thing go. Private e-mail is the best place for > further discussion. > Thanks. It all went very well; let's keep it that way. > > Leroy Van Camp III > malacoda@lesbois.com > ICQ #20039817 > > "Let's show this prehistoric bitch how we do things downtown." > > Dr. Venkmen, Ghostbusters > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:58:56 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Princess Ark - FAQ Material? (Was Re: Gnomes) I think this can help you. List of Dragon Magazine containing Mystara Stuff v.4 (Original list is by Daniel Boese, later additions by Fabrizio Paoli, Glenn Sprigg and Shawn Stanley) A quick list of the Dragon Magazines which mention Mystara: The first column is the issue #, the second which part of the Princess Ark saga (if any) it contains, and the 3rd the subject of whatever's in it. 148 - "Around the World in 36 Levels" 153 1 1964: Nyxmir 11, 1965: Alphamir 15, Sulamir 10, 25, Sudmir 3, 25, 26, Vertmir 1, 4 154 2 1965: Vertmir 7, 17, 18, Tsalmir 8, 11, 18 155 3 1965: Tsalmir 19-Andrumir 11 156 4 1965: Andrumir 12, 24, 26, 28, Cyprimir 1 157 5 1965: Cyprimir 10, 16, 18-21, 24, 25 (Vulture Peninsula) 158 6 1965: Hastmir 4, 6-8, 16, 17, 25 (Vulture Peninsula/ N'djatwa) - The Mightiest of Dragons 160 7 1965: Hastmir 26-Eimir 15 (Myoshima/The Second Moon) - Up, Away and Beyond 161 8 1965: Eimir 16-18, 22-26, Burymir 1-5, 12, 19, 26, Nyxmir 5, 12, 15, 16, 19, 21-25 (Trench of Ka/White Peninsula, monster: Vulcanian sloth) 162 9 1965: Nyxmir 26, 28, Amphmir 3, 5, 7-12, 16-18, 22 (Oostdok trade houses) 163 10 1965: Amphimir 23-26, 28, 1966: Alphamir 15, 19-25 (monster: night dragon) 164 11 2000 Alphamir 26-28, Sulamir 1-25 (hero: Haldemar of Haaken (mage), hero: Talasar Ecbashur (cleric), monster: sky wyrm) 165 12 2000: Sulamir 26, Sudmir 17, 19, 20, 25, 26 (Isle of Dawn, hero: Myojo Katamura (fighter), hero: Abovombe (fighter), hero: Nabonidus Raman (mage) ) 166 13 2000: Vertmir 11, 13, 15, 16, 28, Tsalmir 1-5 (Kingdom of Emerond) 167 14 2000: Tsalmir 8-12 (Thothian enchantment, heroine: Ashari Sunlil (thief), hero: Tarias of Arogansa (fighter), hero: Leo of Le Nerviens (gnome), hero: Ramissur Zumrulim (mage) ) 168 15 2000: Tsalmir 12, 16, 17, 20-22 (Deck plans) 169 16 2000: Tsalmir 23-26, 28, Andrumir 4, 8, 12, 14-19 (Kingdom of Sind) 170 17 2000: Cyprimir 12, 18. 24-28 (Yavdlom Divinarchy, map errata: Kingdom of Sind)-(life cycle of dragons in OD&D) 171 18 2000: Hastmir 1, 3-5, 10, 16-18, 24 (Savage Coast, Slagovich, seed of cinnabar, cinnabryl) - Who's Who Among Dragons (dragon kingdoms of the Known World)-(review: B11, B12, DDA1, DDA2) 172 19 2000: Hastmir 25-28, Eimir 1 (essence of cinnabar, cinnabryl, Hule) 173 20 2000: Eimir 5 (Hule) 174 21 2000: Eimir 7-10 (monster: errant soul, The Savage Baronies) 175 22 2000: Eimir 12-15, 22 (The Savage Coast, Almarron, Gargona, Guadalante, Saragon) 176 23 2000: Eimir 24, 25, 28, Burymir 1, 3-5, 8 (Claw Peninsula) 177 24 2000: Burymir 14-18, 20 (Confederated Kingdom of Robrenn) (review: Rules Cyclopedia) 178 25 2000: Burymir 23-28 (Kingdom of Eusedria) 179 26 2000: Burymir 28, 2001: Nyxmir 1-3, 6-10 (Kingdom of Renardy) 180 27 2000: Nyxmir 18-20, 22, 23 (Kingdom of Bellayne, Limbo) 181 28 2000: Nyxmir 24-28, Amphimir 1-5 (Kingdom of Bellayne) 182 29 - (miscellany) 183 30 2001: Amphimir 11, 13-15 (Lands of the Great Magus, Magocracy of Herath) 184 31 - (miscellany) 185 32 2001: Amphimir 23-25, Alphamir 4, 8-11, 13, 14 (Squamous Kingdoms, Ah'roog City, Kingdom of Ator, Bayou, Kingdom of Cay, Tu'eth City) 186 33 2001: Alphamir 17-21 (Land of Wallera) 187 34 - (retainer costs/fief-holder income) 188 35 2001: Alphamir 25-28, Sulamir 1 (phanatons/Land of Jibaru) 189 - Known World Grimoire (economics/population/food/terrain) 190 - Known World Grimoire (population growth/deforestation/mining) 191 - Grimoire: armies and warfare 192 - Grimoire: manscorpions of Nimmur 193 - Grimoire: castle design/servents/operation 194 - Grimoire: advice 196 - Grimoire: Dark Jungle pantheon/Orc's Head Peninsula 197 - Grimoire: AD&D conversion, misc 199 - Grimoire: heraldry; combat: gunpowder/ballista/siege weapons 200 - lords of the skies/Aeryl/Eshu/Ee'aar - The Color of Magic 206 - "Karameikos, Ho!" 207 - The Magic of Karameikos 216 - Bazaar of the Bizarre (Limited collector's editions of the works of Bargle the infamous) 232 - En Garde! 237 - Campaign Classics: Lupins of the Mystara setting 247 - Rakasta of Mystara ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #189 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, April 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 190 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - Movies campaign inspiration Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade Module [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.2 Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - ??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 19:49:19 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 you hit it right on the nose. Oh and my Glantri campaign armies consist of a lot more mercenary armies than enlisted armies from local town - -----Original Message----- From: Kaviyd@aol.com To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 12:54 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 >In a message dated 1999-04-26 16:10:31 Eastern Daylight Time, >redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: > >> and remember that Thyatis dosnt have quite that many wizards they have more >> fighters. > >Actually I would bet that the same is true in Glantri -- the composition of >the >Glantrian army suggests that Glantri has many times more warriors than >wizards available for service. > >And Thyatis does have a fair number of wizards -- but since Thyatians tend >to respect combat effectiveness, they will have far more admiration for a >wizard who fries the enemy with fireballs than for a "sissy" who relies on >illusions, charm spells, or detection spells. > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:37:18 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Movies campaign inspiration Dear MMListers last Saturday I saw the film "Plunkett and MacLeane", which at last arrived in Spain, and I think that its main plot would do for a very nice Mystara short campaign. Think: Alphatia: a fop of a mage aristocrat associating with a band of non-mages to rob wealthy wizards blind: just follow them to parties and find out when they are to celebrate an orgy of zzonga-plant, then just a matter of a few crossbows and shouting: hands up! I found the mood of the movie very fitting in a decandent Alphatian nobility setting. Besides, it should give the PCs quite a lot of possibilities for creative thinking: to be a highwayman in a land full of magical power would demand lots of planning and inventive. It could be a roguish campaign or have a "social" streak a la Robin Hood (it could even be against the PCs' intentions. They are just for themselves, trying to get money to set shop in other land, but Alphatian commoners start seeing them like heroes, because they are non-magical people able to mock aristocrat mages' powers. They could put PCs in jeopardy by asking difficult missions for them). If played during WotI, as I plan to do, it could be madness: the simple roguish PCs might be charged wiht treason, being seen as allies of Glantrian terrorists and be forced to flee with the army on their heels... Feedback, please? Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 22:14:37 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting At 08:05 PM 4/26/99 -0400, you wrote: >> We can't ever say if a person with a weapon is really lawful. Some >> lunatics were known as lawful persons. Nobody knows when this >> might change or why. >> >> Modern weapons, even pistols, are far too effective and too deadly >> to be allowed for everybody. Reasonable persons don't have a need >> for weapons, and those persons who are not reasonable should >> be kept away from weapons at all costs. >If you wish to control yourself, fine. But once you try forcing your beliefs >on others (myself in particular) I have a great deal of trouble with it. > >I think the problem in Colorado was due more to parents who don't teach their >children proper respect for guns, than having them available. I think it the problem was with the parents of the kid, still... Would you say that everyone has a right to own a atomic bomb? How about the a hand gun? Whats the difference? A matter of degree. One can kill millions in an instant, and the other takes awhile to do the same, and requires more ammo. I assume that people think we shouldn't have nuclear warheads in individual homes, is this not forcing your beliefs on others. Who knows, maybe someone out there wants one? Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:58:36 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting Well i must say what a wonderful article. It presents a point of view i was lucky enough not to experience in my days at high school. I was what would have to be considered one of the "popular" geeks. An aptitude for sport and generally amicable nature forced the beautiful people to respect me. Although i did have at least one good friend who was considerable alienated from the mainstream in a way that is not obvious to anyone but the person experiencing it. Anyhow....a well thought out article and i can recommend to anyone. :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Pierpont [SMTP:bpierpon@attila.stevens-tech.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 11:51 PM > To: mystara-l@mpgn.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting > > I found this link on the page of a comic strip I read daily called User > Friendly... > > http://slashdot.org/articles/99/04/25/1438249.shtml > > Its an interesting commentary on how gun control, violent tv, video > games, D&D, and goths aren't really the real issue. I thought some > people might like to read it, both as a defense for their, well > essentially, their lifestyle, and as an understanding of what's really > going on. > > > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:49:18 +0800 From: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Skin Trade Module Hello everyone. It just occured to me. I dont believe that i ever recieved the final episodes of this most interesting module. So if any kind soul out there happens to have an entire copy of "The Skin Trade" i would most appreciate it if you could send it to me.... That is of course if the author doesnt mind :) To be honest i am not sure who the author is, but if they are lurking out there, Good Job.....the rest please if you dont mind :) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:13:23 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara FAQ v7.2 Mystara FAQ version 7.2 by Hervé Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/mystfaq.txt [US] http://212.198.157.210/Mystara/mystfaq.txt [France] Table of contents: Introduction to Mystara. (no updates) Geography and History of Mystara. (no updates) Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. (7.2 corrected typo in Radiance answer) Miscellaneous. (7.1 updated links to TSR's site, 7.2 added link to Dragon mag list) Introduction to Mystara. Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Geography and History of Mystara. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is an epic campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is "wrong, wrong, wrong!" In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exagerated on this map... Q: I've already heard of the Known World, and of the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are revelant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millenia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systamatically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : "Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :)" So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I whant to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I dind't find any list of Immortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? Powers? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/170jun91/170FromHatchlingTo.txt he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Is Rad gone after Wrath? A: No, he's been absorbed into the Radiance, and some of his life force was used to lessen the drain of the artifact on Mystara's magic (thus there is only a Day of Dread each year, and not a week as in Wrath). Rad is not dead though, but he has been put into a slumbering state to reflect on his deeds (and hopefully change). This is covered in detail in the module Mark of Amber. Q: So is Rad back after Mark of Amber? A: The outcome of the module may vary from campaign to campaign, as the actions of the PCs decide his fate. The module's three outcomes are: 1. He returns as a mortal with no chance of being sponsored back to Immortality and no access to the Radiance (failure); 2. He returns as a mortal but can become an Immortal again sometime (normal success and most likely outcome); 3. He returns as a full Immortal (complete success). Later products avoid the issue, and the general consensus is that he should return but be left in the background, keeping low profile for some time, either rebuilding his following (if an Immortal) or attempting to reach Immortality again (if mortal). Few favor him becoming a mere mortal as most love him as an NPC. Q: Does the Radiance draw from Energy or Entropy after Wrath? A: In Wrath, the Radiance is altered to draw from Entropy instead of Energy. Yet in Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure, the rules for the Radiance are exactly the same as in Gaz3, stating that it drains from Energy. This is a mistake in G:KoM; the authors overlooked that event in Wrath and forgot to update the info from Gaz3. Thus the new rules for the Radiance are undefined, as are the effects of Entropy-draining. Various suggestion have been made on the MML, though. Q: Where is Teldon? Is he dead? A: This is a short excerpt from Dragon Magazine #207 about Teldon's fate: "One of the attractions of the Magicians' Guild, its location in Karameikos' largest city, was its downfall. Such a collection of powerful (and often egotistical or secretive) mages in one location created great potential for conflict. The final straw was the creation of a mechanical beholder by one of the more advanced apprentices, powered by an Immortal's artifact. The resulting creation was turned loose in downtown Specularum, leveling a good section of the South End. The creation was defeated by the head of the Magicians' Guild, Teldon, but at great cost. Both mage and monster disappeared in a pure white ball of fire, and while they are assumed to have both been destroyed, they may instead have been teleported to some far-off location. The fact remained that the Magicians' Guild proved itself too dangerous to remain in Specularum, and lost one of its most valuable supporters." Q: And Bargle, where is he? A: After the fall of the Black Eagle Barony, Bargle is an itinerant villain that pops up here and there. He can easily be used as a recurring villain who the PCs bump into way too often (to their taste). He has been spotted in various place, including Esterhold and Serraine (always helping the evil guys, of course), but can have business just anywhere you wish. Well, good ole Bargle. Q: Is Kol a Shadow Elf or a Kobold? A: Earlier sources always presented Kol as a kobold who, using the rules from Gaz10, could cast spells. In Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, he is said to be one of the deformed shadowelf babies raised by the humanoids, thus explaining both his high intelligence and spellcasting abilities under the AD&D rules. It is both an interestesting plot, and a disappointement to many, as it removes again the humanoids any glint of chance that they can achieve something by themselves. Many people ignore that sentence in G:KoM (or ignore the box altogether, prefering good old Gaz3), and some love the potential of that plot. As always, use whatever version suits your campaign and your taste best. Miscellaneous. Q: You mentionned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reedition, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was cancelled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is cancelled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanach was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site of MPGN at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com and http://www.tsr.com. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to majordomo@mpgn.com. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 224 people, as of end April 98. Not quite a billion served, but we're getting there. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (source : Leroy Van Camp, MML admin). There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb/system/addnewuser.shtml where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/ Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting aricles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). The list of the Dragon magazines that mention Mystara, including the Voyage of the Princess Ark series, can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/5304/dragon.html . Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.rpgspot.com/main.htm http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ http://www.sentrybox.com/ the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm . AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:11:49 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 At 02.57 27/04/99 +0200, Andrés Piquer Otero wrote: >Well, DM, quite a few people are named Dick, after all ;-) You got right to the point! Naming someone Azzo is exactly like naming him Dick :-) >I would suggest >changing it to Adzo (it is a medieaval name, Adso in Latin). But, in fact, >many Italian nobles from the Renaissance had quite lewd names or surnames, >like Coleoni or Cazzolongo. Cazzolongo? Whoa... that's a name! :-) In my hometown there was a famous military leader named Castruccio Castracani, sort of "Geldy the Doggelder" in English. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 21:04:12 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > >It's nearly impossible to integrate it into > > Why is that? I've had no problems integrating it. Glantri doesn't fit to the rest of Mystara as nothing of the magic ever appeared there, not even in the empires. OTOH of course the empires are much to powerful compared with the smaller countries > Should only 5% of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide to settle in > Ethengar, there won't even *be* Ethengar anymore, there would be the > Thyatian colony of Ethengaricus :) Yes, I know! (Sniff!) :-( Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:25:57 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 >you hit it right on the nose. Oh and my Glantri campaign armies consist of a >lot more mercenary armies than enlisted armies from local town One thing that seems to be missing from the Glantrian armed forces, but that REALLY ought to be there, is more of a contribution by the principalities' unique magical creations. For example, you'd think that the Averoignese forces might include special "shock trooper" units of magen - -- certainly, there were loads of those things guarding the mansion, in X2 - -- while the Aalbanese might have a few clockwork/golemized "tanks" to try out on the battlefield. Morley-Malinbois might dispatch units of wolf-handlers (either the mundane animals under human-form weres' control, or werewolves working "undercover" in collars), as scouts and sentries, in support of non-lycanthropic forces. Morphail's and Brannart's undead are a fairly obvious magical resource to call upon, but I'd bet the Flaem have a few domesticated fire-beasts -- maybe hidden from non-Flaemish as their ace-in-the-hole, in case they ever get the chance to take over "their" country again -- as well. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:47:40 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Well Aalbanese HAVE wind up litle things that look like knomes that zoom forward and when they hit something they explode. and the were wolves were used as scouts at night and also raiding parties. The undead was of course common and I created a spell so that instant undead soldiers could rise from the ground while the fight still raged on (this is a high level spell) Also the Flaems started a rebellion or civil war while Glantri was fighting in my Great War this caused some neat story line! also King Kol was forced by intimidation and money to send in some troops (these were the first to go). Thought Id tell you on my creations for Glantri all of these except for the undead were few even though the clock work knomes were made in large numbers most of them weren't used. and for my mercenaries they were mainly pikemen, long bowmen and light & cavalry units - -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Dornhoff To: mystara-l@mpgn.com Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 >One thing that seems to be missing from the Glantrian armed forces, but >that REALLY ought to be there, is more of a contribution by the >principalities' unique magical creations. For example, you'd think that >the Averoignese forces might include special "shock trooper" units of magen >-- certainly, there were loads of those things guarding the mansion, in X2 >-- while the Aalbanese might have a few clockwork/golemized "tanks" to try >out on the battlefield. Morley-Malinbois might dispatch units of >wolf-handlers (either the mundane animals under human-form weres' control, >or werewolves working "undercover" in collars), as scouts and sentries, in >support of non-lycanthropic forces. Morphail's and Brannart's undead are a >fairly obvious magical resource to call upon, but I'd bet the Flaem have a >few domesticated fire-beasts -- maybe hidden from non-Flaemish as their >ace-in-the-hole, in case they ever get the chance to take over "their" >country again -- as well. > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:54:33 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: [MYSTARA] - ??? Does anyone know exactly what the undersea kingdom that plagues Minothrad Id like to know *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #190 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 191 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin's Leave of Absence Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin's Leave of Absence Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? [MYSTARA] - Hule in RS [MYSTARA] - re: Traldar immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? [MYSTARA] - Jaibul ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 08:55:22 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >you hit it right on the nose. Oh and my Glantri campaign armies consist of a > >lot more mercenary armies than enlisted armies from local town > > > One thing that seems to be missing from the Glantrian armed forces, but > that REALLY ought to be there, is more of a contribution by the > principalities' unique magical creations. For example, you'd think that > the Averoignese forces might include special "shock trooper" units of magen > -- certainly, there were loads of those things guarding the mansion, in X2 > -- while the Aalbanese might have a few clockwork/golemized "tanks" to try > out on the battlefield. Morley-Malinbois might dispatch units of > wolf-handlers (either the mundane animals under human-form weres' control, > or werewolves working "undercover" in collars), as scouts and sentries, in > support of non-lycanthropic forces. Morphail's and Brannart's undead are a > fairly obvious magical resource to call upon, but I'd bet the Flaem have a > few domesticated fire-beasts -- maybe hidden from non-Flaemish as their > ace-in-the-hole, in case they ever get the chance to take over "their" > country again -- as well. > > Probably the Princes have some reasons to keep these forces for themselves. For example, Brannart and Morphail could want to avoid the use of undead troops as this could expose their own undead nature, while some of the other special troops (magen and werewolves) might be too expensive, so that their use would be limited to castle guard for the Princes, or too unreliable (as for the Aalbanese monsters). So this troops might be used only for defense purposes in their home principalities. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:41:29 +0200 From: Lostboy@t-online.de (Klaus Kischkat) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals From the Song of King Halav "The Immortals descended to Lavv, a Traldar village, to find clever youths and give them secrets they could use to defeat the beast-men." Halav`s Sponsor was Odin. Petra`s Sponsor was Vanya. Zirchev`s Sponsor was Illsundal. The Question is now. Which Immortals honored the Traldar in the past, which honor the Traladaran now (Only Halav, Petra and Zirchev ?). The Cult of Halav. Do the Clerics of the Cult of Halav get their spells from Halav. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:36:04 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Klaus Kischkat wrote: > >From the Song of King Halav > "The Immortals descended to Lavv, a Traldar village, to find clever youths > and give them secrets they could use to defeat the beast-men." > > Halav`s Sponsor was Odin. > Petra`s Sponsor was Vanya. > Zirchev`s Sponsor was Illsundal. > > The Question is now. Which Immortals honored the Traldar in the past, which > honor the Traladaran now (Only Halav, Petra and Zirchev ?). IMC, Halav, Petra and Zirchev are not the only deities honoured by the Traladarans, but they have a privileged role as protectors and patrons of Traladara, while the other Immortals fill the role of patrons of specific activities or places. There is a list of Traladaran Immortals made by some listmember out on the net, although I don't remember who was. > > The Cult of Halav. > Do the Clerics of the Cult of Halav get their spells from Halav. > This is a degree of freedom for the DM. It is also linked to the choice of having Stephan as Halav reborn or not. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:54:25 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals In a message dated 99-04-29 03:37:10 EDT, Lostboy@t-online.de writes: << The Question is now. Which Immortals honored the Traldar in the past, which honor the Traladaran now (Only Halav, Petra and Zirchev ?).>> IIRC the Traldar Immortals from my campaign are posted on Shawn Stanleys website... they were worshipped by the Traldar and by the Milenians (though the Hero Cults of Halav, Petra and Zirchev grew to be the "state religions" in all but name in both the Milenian Empire and the Traladaran City States). Someone else also posted a different Traldar Pantheon a while back, I think it was based on the Immortals from IM2, but I'm not sure if it's out there still or not... <> That would depend on the position of the Cult of Halav in your campaign. If you want them to be inspired by Halav, then they are; if you want them to be dupes falling into the hands of Thanatos, that could work also. Depends on what you want the cult to be in your campaign... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:57:31 MDT From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin's Leave of Absence Mystarans and Spacefarers, I haven't checked my e-mail since Monday, around five o'clock a.m., and may not be able to do so until tommorrow evening. Monday night I started a massive hardware upgrade on my computer (motherboard, CPU, memory, graphics card, modem, case, and so on), and due to some problems, I did not actually wrap it all up until last night (Wednesday) around 1 a.m. And tonight I will be busy and may not have a chance to check it until tomorrow. I am just letting people know this in case someone tried to contact me (i.e. like the other judges in the NPC contest on the Spelljammer list). I created this Hotmail account at work (might as well, since I am sitting around bored. At least I have a modem on my computer here :). I am unlikely to ever check this account again, so sending me e-mail here probably won't due you a lot of good. So, if you are breaking the list rules, knock it off! : ) Leroy Van Camp III Spur of the Moment Quote: "Hey, give me back my sock you goat bastard!" The Family Guy, to a Narnian satyr _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:00:46 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? >Does anyone know exactly what the undersea kingdom that plagues Minothrad Id >like to know< IIRC, the tritons' kingdom of Undersea -- that's its name, honest! -- isn't the real source of the Thadders' troubles. Rather, it's kna merchants, and perhaps some merfolk in their employ, who are messing with Minrothad's shipping. PC3:"The Sea Peoples" has the kna working to break Minrothad's monopoly on trade, in that part of the Sea of Dread, but without any official support from the triton government. More recently, the Net-Almanacs have got Thyatian vessels being harassed by Twaelar merfolk. (Their empire is located in the shallow waters of the Thanegioth Archipelago.) But I don't recall the Twaelar as having a beef with Thadders, just Thyatian colonists on their way to Davania.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:02:45 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals In a message dated 99-04-29 03:37:10 EDT, Lostboy@t-online.de writes: << Halav`s Sponsor was Odin. Petra`s Sponsor was Vanya. Zirchev`s Sponsor was Illsundal. >> Oh, also, a while back I mentioned the anachronism in the sponsorship of Petra by Vanya... note that Vanya did not attain Immortality until centuries after Petra! Three main reasons why this could be: bad editing, the vagaries of the nature of the Sphere of Time or something else... I chose the third option. I think my post on that is also on Shawn's site; if not I'm pretty sure it is still on Havaard's... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:42:37 -0400 From: Jerry Hovenanian Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin's Leave of Absence WOOOO HOOOOO....the "ogre" is gone......PARTY!!!!!!!!!!! JK Leroy :) Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > Mystarans and Spacefarers, > I haven't checked my e-mail since Monday, around five o'clock > a.m., and may not be able to do so until tommorrow evening. Monday > night I started a massive hardware upgrade on my computer > (motherboard, CPU, memory, graphics card, modem, case, and so on), > and due to some problems, I did not actually wrap it all up until > last night (Wednesday) around 1 a.m. And tonight I will be busy and > may not have a chance to check it until tomorrow. > I am just letting people know this in case someone tried to > contact me (i.e. like the other judges in the NPC contest on the > Spelljammer list). I created this Hotmail account at work (might > as well, since I am sitting around bored. At least I have a modem on > my computer here :). I am unlikely to ever check this account again, > so sending me e-mail here probably won't due you a lot of good. > So, if you are breaking the list rules, knock it off! : ) > > Leroy Van Camp III > Spur of the Moment Quote: > "Hey, give me back my sock you goat bastard!" > The Family Guy, to a Narnian satyr > - -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net 'Life has no meaning but what we give it. I wish a few more of ye would give it a little.' - -Elminster of Shadowdale *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:54:21 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > Oh, also, a while back I mentioned the anachronism in the sponsorship of > Petra by Vanya... note that Vanya did not attain Immortality until centuries > after Petra! Three main reasons why this could be: bad editing, the vagaries > of the nature of the Sphere of Time or something else... I chose the third > option. I think my post on that is also on Shawn's site; if not I'm pretty > sure it is still on Havaard's... Yep, its on my site at www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mystara.html Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:56:19 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals > < Do the Clerics of the Cult of Halav get their spells from Halav. Mine actually get theres from Thanatos (he likes playing games) he is slowly actually converting themto do whatever he says without there questioning him! Stewart the 3rd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:58:01 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? Thankyou Sharon Stewart the 3rd >IIRC, the tritons' kingdom of Undersea -- that's its name, honest! -- isn't >the real source of the Thadders' troubles. Rather, it's kna merchants, and >perhaps some merfolk in their employ, who are messing with Minrothad's >shipping. PC3:"The Sea Peoples" has the kna working to break Minrothad's >monopoly on trade, in that part of the Sea of Dread, but without any >official support from the triton government. > >More recently, the Net-Almanacs have got Thyatian vessels being harassed by >Twaelar merfolk. (Their empire is located in the shallow waters of the >Thanegioth Archipelago.) But I don't recall the Twaelar as having a beef >with Thadders, just Thyatian colonists on their way to Davania.... > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:16:03 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hule in RS This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01BE9253.325AB9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am currently working on a Hule/Northern Neighbours timeline (might be = posted soon), but, as it is indicated in the Mystaran Timeline available = on Marco's website, it seems that RS contains some more info about the = region. Is RS worthy of being chased and paid for? Is the info there = really different from what is included in the SC sourcebook available on = the web?=20 Thanks! Krieg! - ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01BE9253.325AB9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am currently working on a = Hule/Northern=20 Neighbours timeline (might be posted soon), but, as it is indicated in = the=20 Mystaran Timeline available on Marco's website, it seems that RS = contains some=20 more info about the region. Is RS worthy of being chased and paid for? = Is the=20 info there really different from what is included in the SC sourcebook = available=20 on the web?
Thanks!
Krieg!
- ------=_NextPart_000_00D7_01BE9253.325AB9A0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:28:38 +0200 From: Lostboy@t-online.de (Klaus Kischkat) Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: Traldar immortals Another Immortal the Traladran honor must be Chardastes, the patron of healing and medicine. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:50:54 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? In a message dated 99-04-28 19:52:34 EDT, redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: << Does anyone know exactly what the undersea kingdom that plagues Minothrad Id like to know >> I think you mean the City of Suthus from the module X7: War Rafts of Kron. Suthus is an undersea Triton kingdom and Kron is an "airbreather" city of rafts that floats upon the Sea of Dread... Unfortunately Suthus and Kron were missed and not further detailed in PC3: The Sa People... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:16:30 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? >In a message dated 99-04-28 19:52:34 EDT, redrobyne@ellijay.com writes: > ><< Does anyone know exactly what the undersea kingdom that plagues Minothrad >Id like to know >> > >I think you mean the City of Suthus from the module X7: War Rafts of Kron. >Suthus is an undersea Triton kingdom and Kron is an "airbreather" city of >rafts that floats upon the Sea of Dread... Unfortunately Suthus and Kron were >missed and not further detailed in PC3: The Sea People... > >Mystaros Perhaps the authors of PC3 demoted the "kingdom" of Suthus into a vassal-state, so it's now just one of the several provinces of Undersea. If we can accept that so many other adventures from the X-series are set in different eras from the Gazetteers or PWAs -- the war from X10 supposedly breaks out in 1200 AC; the d'Ambrevilles escaped from X2's Chateau in 967 AC; various "Savage Coast" modules depict that region at earlier times in its history than Red Steel or VotPA did -- then perhaps we can reconcile X7 with PC3, if we assume Suthus was once an independent nation, as portrayed in the module, but was annexed by Undersea some time in the last few centuries. In other words, "War Rafts of Kron" may be concurrent with X6 and X9, rather than with the 'modern' KW products. As for the raft-city of Kron, don't forget that it's mobile. Maybe it moved someplace more hospitable -- or lost that artifact which kept it afloat, and sank -- long ago. Just trying to wriggle free of the contraditions, here.... ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 20:35:38 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >> Oh, also, a while back I mentioned the anachronism in the sponsorship of >> Petra by Vanya... note that Vanya did not attain Immortality until >>centuries >> after Petra! Three main reasons why this could be: bad editing, the >>vagaries >> of the nature of the Sphere of Time or something else... Well, Vanya'd hardly be the ONLY Time-Immortal, who's been pulling strings long before his or her mortal existance! Apart from Khoronus's self-sponsorship, Protius's debute as an Immortal seems to pre-date his own species -- cetaceans aren't all that old a taxon, compared to some of the marine creatures which he's alleged to have created -- and oak trees like Ordana have no business running around, terraforming Hollow Worlds, back in the dinosaur era (there were only conifers back then). It's probably easiest if we allow Time-Immortals to "back-date" themselves, whenever it's necessary or convenient for them to do so: that's their Sphere's chief "edge", in its neverending competition with the other four. As for the Traldar, when you think about it, there MUST be some other, pre-Halav Immortals whom they still worship in the HW: the Traladaran "clique" only ascended to Immortality in the wake of the gnollish invasions, by which time their mortal countrymen had already been plunked down on Iciria! So even if the majority of HW Traldar DID get contacted/converted by Halav, Petra and Zirchev, once those three had attained Immortal status, there'd be traces of the old-time Traldar patrons' religions left over -- the SoP guarantees that -- just as there are still worshipers and clergy of the Umpty-Thousand Rabbits among the Azcans. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:10:39 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Yes I agree all tough in my campaign these are typically isolated or small villages not commonly traveled to they still worship these older immortals but for the most part in my campaign they favor the Traladar but these are not there chosen people and therefore do not give them there spells. Stewart the 3rd >As for the Traldar, when you think about it, there MUST be some other, >pre-Halav Immortals whom they still worship in the HW: the Traladaran >"clique" only ascended to Immortality in the wake of the gnollish >invasions, by which time their mortal countrymen had already been plunked >down on Iciria! So even if the majority of HW Traldar DID get >contacted/converted by Halav, Petra and Zirchev, once those three had >attained Immortal status, there'd be traces of the old-time Traldar >patrons' religions left over -- the SoP guarantees that -- just as there >are still worshipers and clergy of the Umpty-Thousand Rabbits among the >Azcans. > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:12:15 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ??? Thankyou also Mystaros! Stewart the 3rd >I think you mean the City of Suthus from the module X7: War Rafts of Kron. >Suthus is an undersea Triton kingdom and Kron is an "airbreather" city of >rafts that floats upon the Sea of Dread... Unfortunately Suthus and Kron were >missed and not further detailed in PC3: The Sa People... > >Mystaros >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:46:36 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Jaibul Is Jaibul detailed anywhere else than in the Champions of Mystara? - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #191 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, April 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 192 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule in RS Re: [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:53:15 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - European Mystara Convention We want you for the European Mystara Convention! Sign up now! No, really, it will be fun. And it's open to non-Europeans too, just make sure you can make it to Paris in the first week of August. So that more Mystarans can sign up and attend the convention, as the more we are the more fun we'll have, we have decided to push the deadline for inscription by two weeks, until the middle of May. Use this opportunity to plan your summer vacation so that you can attend! Hope to hear from you soon, and see you at the MCon! *European Mystara Convention* Site and date: The convention takes places in Paris, France, from August 2nd 1999 to August 4th 1999. The room where we meet is located at: 22 Avenue de la Porte d'Asničres, Paris 17čme (1st building, ground level). Metro: Wagram, Pereire. RER: Pereire. Bus: 53, 94, PC. Train: Pont-Cardinet. Interactive map: http://www.ismap.com/Cgi-Bin/geo/webmap.exe?numero=22&adresse=Avenue+de+la+Porte+d%27Asnieres&type=4&dp=3&sql=&xbmp=400&ybmp=250&model=_is.mod&lng=a&bdd=par The hotel where we book rooms: xxx. Metro: xxx. Interactive map: xxx. Planning: Prior to Day 1: We start on a monday so people can come during the week-end and spend it in Paris if they wish. Day 1: Monday 2. 2pm: 1st meeting. We all gather at the convention room, meet, get our gift , and start discussing about Mystara. Discussion can include things like why we like mystara, how we want it evolve, what makes it stand apart, whether we want it back or only on the net, why we like this country or that culture or that NPC, ... People can stay as late as they wish in the night discussing in broad or small groups on various subjects. During the day it is also possible to sign on for various RPG sessions that will be held tuesday. Items can be sold/purchased if some brought stuff they want to part from. Food and drink available. Day 2: Tuesday 3. All RPGs start at their set time (morning, afternoon... depends on the DM). It is a roleplaying day. Play can continue into the night and morning if needed... Food and drink available. Day 3: Wednesday 4. 2pm: We meet again. We discuss Mystara again. We ask if everyone enjoyed the convention and what they'd want to see next year (or not see again). We vote on the site of next year's convention. When we've had enough, we go together to the Champs and sit at a cafe to drink something together (if alcohol at your own expense). Then we split. After: People who wish to visit Paris more can do it the rest of the week if they can take enough vacation... Also some may reside in the same hotel, or even if they don't they may have made good friends with others, and may then spend some more time together either visiting Paris, or discussing and/or rolepaying more... Fee: EURxxx for the convention including meeting room, food&drink (not alcohol), gift, gaming material and various stuff (paid to us in advance). EURxxx for the hotel room per day (single) or EURxxx per day (twin, if we can find another person who wants a twin room at the same dates) (paid to us in advance, if you reside there). Inscription must be made before May 15th 1999. Payment must be made in euros or in french francs before June 15th 1999 to xxx. Checks, money orders or bank transfer (account number & other relevant banking information needed) accepted. Notes: Hotel: You may wish to book a hotel room somewhere else (or something else than an hotel room), but in that case you should search for yourself. Alcohol/Smoke: Alcohol can be brought in but it is at your own expense (please avoid getting drunk during convention meetings). Smoking is better done outside during breaks (it'll be summer). Gift: What the gift consists in is a secret until the convention. It is Mystara-relevant, and will be available only to people who sign up for the convention. If you cannot make it to the convention, your gift will be sent to you by the post (but we keep your money, see below). Refund: There will be no refunds unless the convention is cancelled altogether. But you will receive your gift by the post soon afterwards. Cost: This document is not finished and lacks some info, especially costs. They will be added when we have them. The more we are the lower the price for each of us (better bargains, fixed costs shared). Current estimates are: around EUR30 for the convention, around EUR50/day for the hotel room. Euro: We have a new currency, let's use it! FYI EUR1=FRF6.55957. Non-European: You can sign up for the convention. You can sign up for the convention just to get the gift if you wish to (anyone can do that, actually). No inscription: If you haven't signed up for the convention in due time, you may decide at the last minute to come anyway. This is at the risk of not having a place (especially no gift). Also, you'll have to book your hotel room yourself. The sooner you warn, the more chance you have we can do something for you. _____________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/8932/ Net Almanac: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/9037/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:41:23 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil Hi guys! I've got a question. I was reading thru the spells description in the Expert set and I noticed something odd I never paid attention to: Dispel Evil's duration is listed as 1 turn. But then it says that it can be directed against one target.. now my problem is: given the power of the spell, what do u think is the right duration, istantaneuos or 1 turn?? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:42:51 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) ON Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:43:42 +0300, "Solmyr of the Azure Star" wrote: <> Uhmm, very logical.. for a psychopath!... uhmm, but well, I never said I wasn't one.. :) But anyway, you're confusing me! One thing I'm sure of: I DO NOT own G:KoM and never will (unless somebody gives it to me as a gift, but then I'll have to kill him in retaliation, of course) ;) uhmm, regarding the last comment: ignore it. It could be misinterpreted by some farseeing journalist were he to stumble upon this mailing list looking for clues about our (meaning D&D players) mentally disturbed nature.. And Aleksei also rambled on: >Hi i was just wondering exactly what is in the DM/PC survival kits? <> Clearly you have both, Aleksei.. right? :) I myself have the DM's one.. SIGH! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:19:54 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > > >It's nearly impossible to integrate it into > Glantri doesn't fit to the rest of Mystara as nothing of the > magic ever appeared there, not even in the empires. > OTOH of course the empires are much to powerful compared > with the smaller countries Expressing negative emotions towards the Holy Gazetteer is like signing one's death warrant... ;-> Glantri is quite dominating place in the Brun, and certainly many adventurer groups accidentally stumbling there will love the place and stay for a life. But keeping the Glantrian magic within the country is certainly rather easy -- the Council probably has understood that magic leakage to the neighboring and competing countries is very bad for their supreme domination of magic. Therefore, there probably are serious restrictions on the magic export. Licenses, taxes, customs... Naturally magical people can use magic to export magic items and books, but then again -- the Council uses magic to catch the offenders. I agree that Glantri doesn't work perfectly with the D&D spell system. Free trade and exchange of spells would be far too easy (in Alphatia also) way to gain power. IMC I declared that as Rad wants only the best of the best wizards to gain supreme levels of power, he has influenced the land so that most of free magic trade is *illegal/HIGHLY taxed* except during the Arcanium. > > Should only 5% of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide to settle in > > Ethengar, there won't even *be* Ethengar anymore, there would be the > > Thyatian colony of Ethengaricus :) I doubt it. They have already moved to Glantri. Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? There are the provinces, the isle of Hattias and the mainland. Provinces are (_IIRC_) not very civilized, and in RW no empire had any real wish to enchance the schooling system in the colonies. Then there are the militaristic Hattians, who are militaristic and suppress the freedom of thought and individuality. Powerful magic requires individuality. Military mages are not *powerful* as individuals. Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). The Thyatian mainland is not that big, anyway. One more thing. There are bloodlines strong in magic and bloodlines weak in magic. Alphatian, pure alphatian, flaemish and laterran blood seems to flow strong. Thyatian, Karameikan and Darokinian masses are people of mixed blood, that cannot challenge The Pure Flaemish Power. More refernces on that subject can be seen at Vanserie Vlaardoen's library. :-) - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 12:50:37 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:57:44 +0200, "Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" wrote: <> Eh eh, quite true, but I challenge you to find a person now living in Italy named Azzo and not wanting to change his name (not that there are any..) :) << I would suggest changing it to Adzo (it is a medieaval name, Adso in Latin). >> Indeeed, in The Name of the Rose the assistant of William of Baskerville is named Adso.. Anyway, I'm not that sure that "Azzo" was so common in medieval Italy.. but then, I'm not an expert on medieval names myself ;) <> Cazzolongo??? ROTFLMAO! Well, since those names were given because of real traits (both physical, personal and associated with birthplace, works, etc..), I suspect this guy was very popular among women.. ;) << I find those lacking in Glantri and Darokin, and it would be FUN having your PCs forced to avoid laughing when before a powerwul MU with such a name (remember "Life of Brian" movies?)>> Sure, It'll be fun, but then you'll lose the epic atmosphere... oh, well, once in a time it can be done, however (I did it myself using many Italian accents and funny surnames while playing in Thyatis and Darokin ;)). I bow to your ethnographic knowledge of Italy, Andrés! :) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:03:51 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - O-T: Colorado Shooting David Keyser wrote: >After suffering several terrorist incidents in schools, Israel made it a policy to encourage teachers and parents volunteering at the school to carry firearms on the grounds. This is a well- known fact in the Middle East. Since this occured there were two attempts to infiltrate Israeli schools by terrorists, both failed. No one has tried since, and there have been no mass murders committed by students or teachers either(at least in the schools). >In the US, the Second Amendment prevents the federal government from banning firearms(so far). Anyone without a felony conviction can buy one. However, laws in almost all the states make it illegal to bring a firearm within 1000 feet of a school. This, of course, deters law-abiding citizens from bringing guns near a school. >On a personal note, a friend of mine in Arizona once woke up to hear a half-dozen men banging on the front door and front windows. It was after midnight. They were trying to smash their way in, when he chambered a round in his shotgun. That alone was enough to send them fleeing. >Dave Keyser You are forgetting (or not knowing) one thing about Israel: In Israel almost everyone have served in the army (like I do now). Men and women are trained and given weapons, but before they enlist they go through some psichyatric tests. people who are disturbed (or pretend to be) get a "dont call us well call you" and are released. (thats the easy way out of service). while this is not a fail proff system, people who want a lisence for a firearm later in life wont get it if they didnt go to the army. its true that the increaced level of firearms in society decresses crime, but it is importenet to know who to give them too. after the start of the palestinian riouts, the army decided to let the soldiers take thier weapons home with them in order to increace security in urban cities (as I take my personal firearm home to this day). this had led to only very few cases of violenence, but it could lead *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:42:15 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG Hey DM , its great how you integrated all of out ideas into one fluent timeline. cant wait to working again with you two. just a few comments: >1050 BC: Evil Nithian necromancers research a way of creating a servitor race resembling the Hutaakans by reincarnating gnomes using the blood of trolls. The entire Northern Reaches have been conquered in the attempt to get more specimen. After a few years the first hundred gnomes are turned into gnolls. (GAZ10)> I didnt get this from GAZ10 ( I read it but I dont have it) but figured it out myself from different sources in canon. maybe this is also found in the orcs of Thar, but it seemed more appropriate than the gnolls being a *cross* between gnomes and trolls. >300 BC: During the exploration of the Sea of Dread, the sea-gnomes of Deepreach discover the Twaelar civilization in the southern area near Tanegioth. After hearing of the misdeeds and corruption of the surface dwellers from the gnomes, the Twaelars wov to mistrust them and to stay away from them as much as possible. This is just one of the causes of the Twaelars' isolation policy which still applies in the present. > remind me who are the Twaelars again, cant find them in PC2. I also want it to be noted that much of the "sea gnome" story, is (unintentionaly) based on the bible, and the jewes exudus from Egypt to the promised land. (slavery, evil pharoh, building pyramids, trickery against the opressors and such) Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:29:52 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hule in RS On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Christian Constantin wrote: > I am currently working on a Hule/Northern Neighbours timeline (might > be posted soon), but, as it is indicated in the Mystaran Timeline > available on Marco's website, it seems that RS contains some more info > about the region. Is RS worthy of being chased and paid for? Is the > info there really different from what is included in the SC sourcebook > available on the web? Thanks! Krieg! You can find all the Red Steel material on web for free! Its on TSRs site and MPGN. Go there. And yep, I think its pretty good. Btw, looking forward to seeing your timeline. Haavard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 07:33:44 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil The spell, IMC, can be cast on a person or directly at the target. If cast on yourself or another, the first applicable creature they attack successfully within 1 turn suffers the effects of the Dispel. Otherwise, the spell has a duration of instantaneous. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 15:09:22 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - House of Sirecchia, part 2 ><names or surnames, like Coleoni or Cazzolongo.>> > >Cazzolongo??? ROTFLMAO! >Well, since those names were given because of real traits (both physical, >personal and associated with birthplace, works, etc..), I suspect this guy >was very popular among women.. ;) < Oh, so THAT'S what that name means! I was trying to think of some way to request a translation, without sounding like a pervert, but I think I've figured it out now.... ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:13:35 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) >Uhmm, very logical.. for a psychopath!... uhmm, but well, I never said I >wasn't one.. :) > I'm slowly getting to know your evil secret... :) >But anyway, you're confusing me! One thing I'm sure of: I DO NOT own G:KoM >and never will (unless somebody gives it to me as a gift, but then I'll >have to kill him in retaliation, of course) ;) Denial won't help you DM. We know the truth :) > uhmm, regarding the last comment: ignore it. It could be misinterpreted by >some farseeing journalist were he to stumble upon this mailing list looking >for clues about our (meaning D&D players) mentally disturbed nature.. > Hmm, I can just see the headlines: Demented D&D player Shoots a Dozen Owners of G:KoM :) >Clearly you have both, Aleksei.. right? :) > I do. I even got some use out of them. Now if only I could remember exactly what it was... ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:19:43 +0300 From: "Solmyr of the Azure Star" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >> > Should only 5% of the best Thyatian wizards ever decide to settle in >> > Ethengar, there won't even *be* Ethengar anymore, there would be the >> > Thyatian colony of Ethengaricus :) > >I doubt it. They have already moved to Glantri. > Well, that's why I said it in a hypothetical manner. What would Thyatian wizards want with a stretch of steppe, anyway? :) >Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? There are the > >Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). The Thyatian mainland is >not that big, anyway. > Well, the Thyatian mainland is more populous than anything else (3/5 of Alphatian mainland's population on a fraction of Alphatia's size). Certainly there can be a bunch of magic schools there. Perhaps not as prominent as the Glantrian one, but there nonetheless. ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star aka Azure Star Dragon solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:16:22 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) >Uhmm, very logical.. for a psychopath!... uhmm, but well, I never said I >wasn't one.. :) > >But anyway, you're confusing me! One thing I'm sure of: I DO NOT own G:KoM >and never will (unless somebody gives it to me as a gift, but then I'll >have to kill him in retaliation, of course) ;) > uhmm, regarding the last comment: ignore it. It could be misinterpreted by >some farseeing journalist were he to stumble upon this mailing list looking >for clues about our (meaning D&D players) mentally disturbed nature.. LOL the sad thing is hes probably right! Stewart the 3rd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 21:41:09 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >Expressing negative emotions towards the Holy Gazetteer is like signing >one's death warrant... ;-> Yeah uh huh I'm sure....>:-p >Glantri is quite dominating place in the Brun, and certainly many >adventurer groups accidentally stumbling there will love the place and >stay for a life. But keeping the Glantrian magic within the country is >certainly rather easy -- the Council probably has understood that magic >leakage to the neighboring and competing countries is very bad for their >supreme domination of magic. First thing most of the PCs I know like Karamiekos and for the retireees they tend to like Minothrad or Five Shires there was a mage who stayed in Glantri for a feww years to collect some spells but moved to Darokin/Atraughgin Clans Border.And there not all powerful there are ways around magic >Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? Thyatis City. >Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). In 1014 its no longer part of the Thyation Empire. > The Thyatian mainland is >not that big, anyway. What its pretty big? but its the pop. not the size that counts anyway Stewart the 3rd - ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:42:58 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >Well, Vanya'd hardly be the ONLY Time-Immortal, who's been pulling strings >long before his or her mortal existance! Apart from Khoronus's >self-sponsorship, Protius's debute as an Immortal seems to pre-date his own >species -- cetaceans aren't all that old a taxon, compared to some of the >marine creatures which he's alleged to have created -- and oak trees like >Ordana have no business running around, terraforming Hollow Worlds, back in >the dinosaur era (there were only conifers back then). It's probably >easiest if we allow Time-Immortals to "back-date" themselves, whenever it's >necessary or convenient for them to do so: that's their Sphere's chief >"edge", in its neverending competition with the other four. I'll detail my own spin on such temporal sponsorship hijinks in my next enstallment in the heart-wrenching drama, the Oard Epic, nominated for three Academy Awards, winner of two Golden Globes! >As for the Traldar, when you think about it, there MUST be some other, >pre-Halav Immortals whom they still worship in the HW: the Traladaran >"clique" only ascended to Immortality in the wake of the gnollish >invasions, by which time their mortal countrymen had already been plunked >down on Iciria! So even if the majority of HW Traldar DID get >contacted/converted by Halav, Petra and Zirchev, once those three had >attained Immortal status, there'd be traces of the old-time Traldar >patrons' religions left over -- the SoP guarantees that -- just as there >are still worshipers and clergy of the Umpty-Thousand Rabbits among the >Azcans. Perhaps the pre-Halav Traldar simply worshipped the "Immortals." As GAZ2 reads, pre-al-Kalim Ylaruam followed the teachings of the Immortals in general, without specific Immortals named, and that sort of worship is what the Nahmeh teaches. The same thing happens in Ethengar, where all Immortals are included under the "World Yurt" philosophy. Another possibility, albeit remote, is the lack of worship: in B10 Night's Dark Terror, the Traldar in the Lost Valley are explcitly listed as having no clerics. Their isolation should make those Traldar more representative of the old Traldar culture than those in Karameikos. True, the Lost Valley Traldar might have been "corrupted" by the Hutaakan influence, but it seems to me as though they had removed the Hutaakan civilization when they overthrew their masters, and had gone back to the "old ways," which doesn't seem to include any worship. Perhaps a better option is that the pre-Halav Traldar worshipped Pflarr (exclusively) along with the Hutaakans, but when the Hutaakans abandoned the Traldar, those outside of the valley rejected Pflarr by name, feeling that he had withdrawn his favor, and they vaguely recalled from ancient legends that Pflarr was a member of a pantheon (I doubt the Hutaakans would have worshipped any other of the Nithian Immortals, and thus wouldn't have spread their worship among the Traldar), and began to worship "The Pantheon", without any specific named Immortals. When the Thyatians invaded, they chose to translate whatever the Traldar word for The Pantheon as "The Immortals." "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:47:00 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - G:KoM (was: The Multiverse and Mystara) > >Hi i was just wondering exactly what is in the DM/PC survival kits? > ><> > >Clearly you have both, Aleksei.. right? :) > >I myself have the DM's one.. SIGH! The PC kit is fairly decent: the list of names are useful for any country you don't have a gazeteer for, the family generator is useful, and I really like the cards; I've always enjoyed Torg, and I thought the deck was one of the best and most innovative ideas in a very innovative series. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:58:03 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG > >1050 BC: Evil Nithian necromancers research a way of creating a servitor >race resembling the Hutaakans by reincarnating gnomes using the blood of >trolls. The entire Northern Reaches have been conquered in the attempt to >get more specimen. After a few years the first hundred gnomes are turned >into gnolls. (GAZ10)> > >I didnt get this from GAZ10 ( I read it but I dont have it) but figured it >out myself from different sources in canon. maybe this is also found in the >orcs of Thar, but it seemed more appropriate than the gnolls being a >*cross* between gnomes and trolls. According to GAZ10, Nithian wizards created gnolls using parts of both, but it doesn't seem to be a reproductive kind of cross (which would be really disgusting to watch); in the history of the humanoids, it says Nithian wizards could create dozens of gnolls from one troll body and a pint of gnomish blood, which also solves the problem of how so many gnolls could be created from only a hundred gnomes. Assuming that a gnome can (semi-)safely "donate" a pint of blood every two months, and also assuming enough trolls are available, then in one year, from 100 gnomes, you can get 14,400 to 28,800 gnolls a year, depending on how many dozen you get from one pint. If the Nithians were decidedly unscrupulous in their methods, ie draining the gnomes dry and then magically healing them back, hundreds of thousands could easily be produced in a year. Why the Nithians would want so many gnolls is another question. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:04:47 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? >Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? There are the >provinces, the isle of Hattias and the mainland. Provinces are (_IIRC_) >not very civilized, and in RW no empire had any real wish to enchance the >schooling system in the colonies. Then there are the militaristic >Hattians, who are militaristic and suppress the freedom of thought and >individuality. Powerful magic requires individuality. Military mages are >not *powerful* as individuals. > >Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). The Thyatian mainland is >not that big, anyway. > In the Thyatian province of Sclaras, there are 250 36-th level magic users, who each have their own domain they can treat however they like, in (I assume) return for a few favors for the Empire. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #192 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, May 1 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 193 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaibul Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals [MYSTARA] - Alphatian- Nithian relations Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG [MYSTARA] - IM3 - Immortals of the Known World Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals [MYSTARA] - Elven Age Conversions Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Age Conversions Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian- Nithian relations Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:16:44 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? In a message dated 1999-04-30 06:20:51 Eastern Daylight Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > Glantri is quite dominating place in the Brun, and certainly many > adventurer groups accidentally stumbling there will love the place and > stay for a life. But keeping the Glantrian magic within the country is > certainly rather easy -- the Council probably has understood that magic > leakage to the neighboring and competing countries is very bad for their > supreme domination of magic. I would have to question that -- many foreigners and Glantrian exiles are reported to have knowledge of Glantrian secret crafts. But there is one point that helps Glantri considerably in staying on top magically -- whenever a knowledgeable wizard desires to return to the Great School of Magic for additional study, he is required to divulge to the School every new spell that he has learned. In addition, since wizards are taxed according to their spell knowledge, the authorities do find out about new spells and may exert pressure on wizards below the rank of Prince to cough up their secrets. > I agree that Glantri doesn't work perfectly with the D&D spell system. > Free trade and exchange of spells would be far too easy (in Alphatia > also) way to gain power. IMC I declared that as Rad wants only the best > of the best wizards to gain supreme levels of power, he has influenced > the land so that most of free magic trade is *illegal/HIGHLY taxed* > except during the Arcanium. However, if you use the XP rules from Gaz 3 for learning spells, trading spells is primarily of use for the spell knowledge itself rather than the experience. The experience granted for acquiring a new spell depends on how the spell was obtained, as follows: Magical research of new spell: 1500 XP/spell level Magical research of common spell: 1000 XP/spell level Spell discovered in treasure: 500 XP/spell level Spell given by master: 250 XP/spell level Trade, purchase, or theft: 100 XP/spell level And the last line would suggest that spells have a commonly accepted economic value and thus are hardly ever taught freely -- some sort of exchange nearly always occurs. > Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? There are the > provinces, the isle of Hattias and the mainland. Provinces are (_IIRC_) > not very civilized, and in RW no empire had any real wish to enchance the > schooling system in the colonies. Then there are the militaristic > Hattians, who are militaristic and suppress the freedom of thought and > individuality. Powerful magic requires individuality. Military mages are > not *powerful* as individuals. Thyatis does not have to encourage magic research -- with their high population, it is sufficient for them not to discourage it as the Ylari do. And I think you may have accepted a rather blanket generalization about Hattians -- it seems probable that the racist attitudes of the Storm Soldiers are not shared by most Hattians, if you examine the available source material closely. > Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). The Thyatian mainland is > not that big, anyway. Mainland Thyatis has about half the land area of Glantri -- and about four times the population. As another poster indicated, it is the population that matters. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 00:16:45 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Jaibul In a message dated 1999-04-30 03:49:55 Eastern Daylight Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > Is Jaibul detailed anywhere else than in the Champions of Mystara? Additional information is given in the issue of Dragon that details the Princess Ark's visit to that nation as well as in the PWAs (under the entry for Sind). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 01:06:40 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >>As for the Traldar, when you think about it, there MUST be some other, >>pre-Halav Immortals whom they still worship in the HW: the Traladaran >>"clique" only ascended to Immortality in the wake of the gnollish >>invasions, by which time their mortal countrymen had already been plunked >>down on Iciria! So even if the majority of HW Traldar DID get >>contacted/converted by Halav, Petra and Zirchev, once those three had >>attained Immortal status, there'd be traces of the old-time Traldar >>patrons' religions left over -- the SoP guarantees that -- just as there >>are still worshipers and clergy of the Umpty-Thousand Rabbits among the >>Azcans. Well you could have where each town or village worshipped there own immortals which is likely since there was few trade or contact with other villages so there was no signified immortal so that each village would worship the immortal they had to rely on for help.Or earlier said that all the immortals *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:21:29 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian- Nithian relations I was wondering , if the alphatians made landfall in the year 1000BC (AY 0) did they have any kind of relations with the nithian empire (aside from the touthian colony). or were they to busy with colonizing their own continent? Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:17:06 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG > According to GAZ10, Nithian wizards created gnolls using parts of both, but it doesn't seem to be a reproductive kind of cross (which would be really disgusting to watch); in the history of the humanoids, it says Nithian wizards could create dozens of gnolls from one troll body and a pint of gnomish blood, which also solves the problem of how so many gnolls could be created from only a hundred gnomes. Assuming that a gnome can (semi-)safely "donate" a pint of blood every two months, and also assuming enough trolls are available, then in one year, from 100 gnomes, you can get 14,400 to 28,800 gnolls a year, depending on how many dozen you get from one pint. If the Nithians were decidedly unscrupulous in their methods, ie draining the gnomes dry and then magically healing them back, hundreds of thousands could easily be produced in a year. Why the Nithians would want so many gnolls is another question.> >"In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen >Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire I dont like the idea of gnolls being made from troll parts and gnome blood. it is not diabolic enough... it is more cool (IMO) to make gnolls by mutating gnomes using troll blood. the way I see it is: the nithians have always revered the chosen race of Pflarr- tha hutakkans. but what trigered the creation of gnolls was not relegious but the practical need for slaves. the Nithians needed a stronger slave race than the gnomes, since gnomes are too week to move around the huge stones for the pyramids. so the (evil) nithian necromancers discovered a way of "monstrating" (see a spell of mine with a similar name...) gnomes into something more work able. they needed the blood of a big strong humanoid creature. they send parties of adventurers (of course) to hunt trolls in the mountains and swamps to the north as they are very common over there praying on the norse and dwarvish populations. Pflarr the Immortal has been eyeing the project and not liking a single thing about it. Pflarr was enraged that the pumy human mortals were daring to try and create a race to use for their service as he himself as a mortal was created and used in the same way. knowing a great deal about magic and creature creation (after all he was a 36 leveled spell user) he cursed the troll blood to contain not only the strength and constitution of the troll race but also the essence of its monstrous nature and savage temper. as a last warning he sent his hutakkan priests through the empire warning the necromancers they are dealing with things better left to the immortals. but the vain nithian pharohs too obsessed with the "immortalizing" themselves using the monumental pyramids ignored the hutaakan plea. Pflarr seeing that he was ignored turn his back on the nithian empire and all of humanity, granting spells only to his favored hutakkan preists. when the nithian necrmancers completed the ceremonies that were to release the improved gnomish race what sprang into existance where the gnolls- a race cursed by Pflarr to be the crull and barabaric race that they are. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 15:56:49 +0200 From: Lostboy@t-online.de (Klaus Kischkat) Subject: [MYSTARA] - IM3 - Immortals of the Known World I`m seeking for the stats of the following Immortals from Adventure IM3: Harrow Liena Marwyn Tiresias Since I don`t have this adventure I will be glad if somebody can send me the stats! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:56:43 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >Well you could have where each town or village worshipped there own >immortals which is likely since there was few trade or contact with other >villages so there was no signified immortal so that each village would >worship the immortal they had to rely on for help.Or earlier said that all >the immortals I think I like this idea best, that each Traldar city had a specific patron Immortal or two. That fits in well with the M-Greek motif of the culture, as ancient Greek cities also had patron gods, whom they credited with having founded specific human communities to worship them. It'd also be consistent with B4's city of Cynidicea -- it seems to have been founded by expatriot Traldar, judging by the Greek-style names of the NPCs there -- as that former surface-world kingdom also had a trio of minor Immortal patrons, who were exclusive to it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:06:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Elven Age Conversions Ariel and I have completed a conversion system for elf-to-human and human-to-elf ages. It's our own version of the 2nd edition AD&D ages, so I won't post it here. But everyone is welcome to have a look, at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/elfages.html Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/nonint.html Dark Myst Manor: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:36:48 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_9uuqyTJa8yz7XN/h6QkKxw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Well Im glad you agree but isnt it a russion or polish style for = traladar? Baron, Von Lentz the 3rd "Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!" Tom Bombadillo=20 (Lord = of the Rings) >I think I like this idea best, that each Traldar city had a specific = patron >Immortal or two. That fits in well with the M-Greek motif of the = culture, >as ancient Greek cities also had patron gods, whom they credited with >having founded specific human communities to worship them. It'd also = be >consistent with B4's city of Cynidicea -- it seems to have been founded = by >expatriot Traldar, judging by the Greek-style names of the NPCs there = - -- as >that former surface-world kingdom also had a trio of minor Immortal >patrons, who were exclusive to it. > > >************************************************************************= *** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the = line >'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - --Boundary_(ID_9uuqyTJa8yz7XN/h6QkKxw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 
Well Im glad you agree but isnt it a russion or polish style for=20 traladar?
 
           &n= bsp;   =20 Baron, Von Lentz = the=20 3rd
 
"Hey dol! merry dol! ring a = dong=20 dillo!
Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal = the=20 willow! 
Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom=20 Bombadillo!" 
         = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;   =20 Tom Bombadillo
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;     =20 (Lord of the Rings)
 
 
>I think I like this idea best, that each Traldar city = had a=20 specific patron
>Immortal or two.  That fits in well with the = M-Greek=20 motif of the culture,
>as ancient Greek cities also had patron = gods, whom=20 they credited with
>having founded specific human communities to = worship=20 them.  It'd also be
>consistent with B4's city of Cynidicea = - -- it=20 seems to have been founded by
>expatriot Traldar, judging by the=20 Greek-style names of the NPCs there -- as
>that former = surface-world=20 kingdom also had a trio of minor Immortal
>patrons, who were = exclusive to=20 it.
>
>
>**********************************************= *****************************
>To=20 unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the=20 line
>'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the=20 message. 
- --Boundary_(ID_9uuqyTJa8yz7XN/h6QkKxw)-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 15:37:37 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Elven Age Conversions Sounds interesting I'll check it out! Stewart *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 14:46:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >isnt it a russion or polish style for traladar? Not for the ancient Traldar. The Traldars (i.e., before the Beast-Men invasion) were a lot like the Bronze Age Greeks. An offshoot, the Milenian Empire, is a lot like Classical Greece. Modern Traladara, though, is very similar to the Eastern European states (who had a heavy Greek/Byzantine influence; see James Ruhland's site for good info on Thyatis as Byzantium). Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 12:58:44 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG >I dont like the idea of gnolls being made from troll parts and gnome blood. >it is not diabolic enough... >it is more cool (IMO) to make gnolls by mutating gnomes using troll blood. > >the way I see it is: You're right, your version does sound much more diabolic, but then the question of where did all of the gnolls come from arises: given how many gnolls there are, and how quickly they developed, then we must assume, using your theory, that the Nithians had many more gnomes than anyone realized. Perhaps at one point, gnomes were just as populous as the humanoids, but Nithian experiments devastated the gnomish population world-wide; no gnome remembers this due to the spell of oblivion. Although the "elder races", ie demi-humans, traditionally have a low fecundity and thus low populations, kobolds are theorized to be such a race, and they certainly have made themselves known throughout the world."In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 13:04:38 PDT From: "Nicholas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian- Nithian relations >I was wondering , >if the alphatians made landfall in the year 1000BC (AY 0) >did they have any kind of relations with the nithian empire (aside from the >touthian colony). >or were they to busy with colonizing their own continent? > >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) >"and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies Perhaps cross-cultural exchanges where the reason for Alphatian dominance: according to HWR2 The Nithian Empire, at its peak, the Nithians were even more skilled in magic than the Alphatians. Suppose that Alphatian magic, which is generally assumed to have been stronger in Old Alphatia, drew on forces unique to their plane, much as the Glantri radiance magic draws upon the NoS. After Landfall, the Alphatians discovered that much of their magic was "gone" (not actually, gone, but the power source was missing). Only after a few hundred years of contact and learning with the Nithians were the Alphatians able to recapture some of their lost power, and do not remember this now due to the Oblivion. This could also explain why the Alphatians did not take over an even larger portion of the world, given their supposed powers."In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:11:29 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals > >From the Song of King Halav > "The Immortals descended to Lavv, a Traldar village, to find clever youths > and give them secrets they could use to defeat the beast-men." > > Halav`s Sponsor was Odin. > Petra`s Sponsor was Vanya. > Zirchev`s Sponsor was Illsundal. > > The Question is now. Which Immortals honored the Traldar in the past, which > honor the Traladaran now (Only Halav, Petra and Zirchev ?). > > The Cult of Halav. > Do the Clerics of the Cult of Halav get their spells from Halav. Some good questions: Perhaps Halav is providing the clerics of the cult with spells as "follower are followers", as an old Immortals' saying told us. But perhaps a much more sinister Immortal is behind it (Thanatos?) and Halav is desperately investigating WHO is providing the cultists with spells in his name. Another interesting question is that VANYA was the patron of PETRA. Petra in mortal life was a contemporary of those Traldar people who settled in Davania and became the Milenians while Vanya was harrassed by the Milenians. The most probable explanation is that both are Immortals of the Sphere of Time. Jamuga Khan "Alle deutschen Rollenspieler seien gegrüßt!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:11:45 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > Where in Thyatis is the magic research encouraged? There are the > provinces, the isle of Hattias and the mainland. Provinces are (_IIRC_) > not very civilized, and in RW no empire had any real wish to enchance the > schooling system in the colonies. Then there are the militaristic > Hattians, who are militaristic and suppress the freedom of thought and > individuality. Powerful magic requires individuality. Military mages are > not *powerful* as individuals. > > Lastly, there is the mainland (+ Karameikos). The Thyatian mainland is > not that big, anyway. But very densely settled! > One more thing. There are bloodlines strong in magic and bloodlines weak > in magic. Alphatian, pure alphatian, flaemish and laterran blood seems to > flow strong. Thyatian, Karameikan and Darokinian masses are people of > mixed blood, that cannot challenge The Pure Flaemish Power. But there are at least 250 mages level 36 in Thyatis and most probably twice the number of clerics! We don't have even ONE level 36 mage in Glantri. Even Etienne d'Amberville is a mage level 35, and he is the best of all Glantrinians! > More refernces on that subject can be seen at Vanserie Vlaardoen's > library. :-) Well, more Glantrinian propaganda! :-) Jamuga Khan "I say you, those bloody Glantrinians are much better politicians and public relation managers than wizards." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 22:11:41 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dispel Evil > I've got a question. I was reading thru the spells description in the > Expert set and I noticed something odd I never paid attention to: Dispel > Evil's duration is listed as 1 turn. But then it says that it can be > directed against one target.. now my problem is: given the power of the > spell, what do u think is the right duration, istantaneuos or 1 turn?? > > DM Both is correct! When casting the spell you will destroy your target at the very moment IF IT FAILS ITS SAVING THROW! When not been destroyed the target is hindered in approaching you nevertheless! Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:49:45 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals >But perhaps a much more sinister Immortal is behind it (Thanatos?) >and Halav is desperately investigating WHO is providing the cultists >with spells in his name. Not sure why, but impersonating another Immortal sounds more like Atzanteotl's style, if you ask me.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 17:12:26 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gnomish Timeline (LONG > You're right, your version does sound much more diabolic, but then the >question of where did all of the gnolls come from arises: given how many >gnolls there are, and how quickly they developed, then we must assume, >using your theory, that the Nithians had many more gnomes than anyone >realized. Perhaps at one point, gnomes were just as populous as the >humanoids, but Nithian experiments devastated the gnomish population >world-wide; no gnome remembers this due to the spell of oblivion. There's soooo many problems with having gnolls be a gnome/troll hybrid -- the gnolls' lifespans and rapid reproductive rate; the fact that neither parent-race looks the least bit dog-like (kobolds, or even rakasta, would make better "raw materials" than gnomes, if that's the "look" the Nithians were going for); gnolls' total lack of gnome-like qualities, such as inventiveness or magic resistance; Bruce's remarks in his lupin article that gnolls and lupins can interbreed (huh?) -- that I've decided IMC that it wasn't REALLY gnomes which the Nithians used, at all! Rather, it was another race of canine humanoids, enslaved by Nithia and now extinct in the KW, who were crossed with trolls: called "aardovai", they were physically puny, yet very abundant at the time. Thanks to the Spell of Oblivion, all records of this race's previous existence were lost along with the Nithian civilization. Generations later, archaeologists who translated the tale of gnolls' creation simply mistook the ancient hieroglyph for aardovai (a symbol meaning "earth-pawers"), for the nearly-identical one representing gnomes (i.e. "earth-delvers"). Heck ... if TSR could invent the "gnoll" monster, because of a typographical error which juxtaposed the words "gnome" and "troll" in some long-ago rulebook, then why shouldn't an editorial screw-up ALSO account for gnolls' alleged genetic parentage, on Mystara? ;-D *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:06:30 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals What's the URL for his site? I'd be intreasted in looking at it. I agree from what I've seen modren Traladar is very close to Eastern Europe during the dark ages (with the Carpathaians(sp) being the sterotype). Look at Glantri's Boldavia. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennifer Favia Guerra To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals > >isnt it a russion or polish style for traladar? > > Not for the ancient Traldar. The Traldars (i.e., before the Beast-Men > invasion) were a lot like the Bronze Age Greeks. An offshoot, the > Milenian Empire, is a lot like Classical Greece. > > Modern Traladara, though, is very similar to the Eastern European states > (who had a heavy Greek/Byzantine influence; see James Ruhland's site for > good info on Thyatis as Byzantium). > > Jenn > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line > 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 17:09:05 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? Personaly I'd say that was a misprint. Also remember that though Etienne is also the Immortal Rad, and that's nothing to laugh at. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamuga Khan To: Sent: Saturday, May 01, 1999 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantri? > But there are at least 250 mages level 36 in Thyatis and most > probably twice the number of clerics! We don't have even ONE > level 36 mage in Glantri. Even Etienne d'Amberville is a mage > level 35, and he is the best of all Glantrinians! > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 18:12:51 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traldar Immortals This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_gCTWFlEhkNKfpJAUm2Exbw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable >isnt it a russion or polish style for traladar? Not for the ancient Traldar. The Traldars (i.e., before the Beast-Men invasion) were a lot like the Bronze Age Greeks. An offshoot, the Milenian Empire, is a lot like Classical Greece. =20 Modern Traladara, though, is very similar to the Eastern European states (who had a heavy Greek/Byzantine influence; see James Ruhland's site for good info on Thyatis as Byzantium). =20 Oh I see! That makes sense since almost all of the KW are based of RW = countries. Baron Von Lentz the 3rd "Hey dol! merry dol! ring a dong a dillo! Ring a dong! hop along! fal lal the willow! Tom Bom, jolly Tom, Tom Bombadillo!" =20 Tom = Bombadillo (Lord = of the Rings) - --Boundary_(ID_gCTWFlEhkNKfpJAUm2Exbw) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
 

 
>isnt it a russion or polish style for = traladar?

Not for=20 the ancient Traldar. The Traldars (i.e., before the = Beast-Men
invasion) were=20 a lot like the Bronze Age Greeks. An offshoot, the
Milenian Empire, = is a lot=20 like Classical Greece. 

Modern Traladara, though, is very = similar=20 to the Eastern European states
(who had a heavy Greek/Byzantine = influence;=20 see James Ruhland's site for
good info on Thyatis as = Byzantium). =20
 
 
Oh I see! That makes sense since = almost all of=20 the KW are based of RW countries.

Baron = Von Lentz the=20 3rd
 
"Hey dol! = merry dol!=20 ring a dong a dillo!
Ring a dong! hop = along! fal=20 lal the willow!
Tom Bom, jolly = Tom, Tom=20 Bombadillo!"
          =20
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;      =20 Tom Bombadillo
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;     =20 (Lord of the Rings)
- --Boundary_(ID_gCTWFlEhkNKfpJAUm2Exbw)-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #193 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.