mystara-digest Thursday, July 8 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 287 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unnamed Moor [MYSTARA] - good campaign? Re: [MYSTARA] - good campaign? Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladar relics (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Priest of Ixion [MYSTARA] - Chainmail [MYSTARA] - test 8 July 9:30am ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 21:46:03 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Unnamed Moor In a message dated 7/5/99 7:58:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: << I would like to know the reference of the dungeon mag which contained the tomb fo the traldar warrior please.Can anyone tell me? thib >> Dungeon Adventures #27. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 00:24:11 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - good campaign? Does anyone here have any good campaigns for a group of level one characters (2 fighters, a mage, a mage/theif, and a priest) that could end up taking them to level 4 or so? I've been looking for original campaigns that could take maybe 2 months to complete, that would result in the characters gaining a few levels. Nothing too big mind you, just good. If you do, please send them to me at Scoooman@aol.com (no file attachements), or with attachments, at MC_Megahertz@yahoo.com. Thanks, Sco *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 03:17:09 EDT From: Remoh76@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - good campaign? If anyone has a good idea would you please send it to me at Remoh76@msn.com or post it publicly. Thank you, Vinny *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:34:46 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladar relics (long) > Not to mention that an ax or warhammer would seem too much like a Northern > Reaches-style weapon! As Karameikos was designed to be the Known World's > stereotypical "knights-in-armor" realm, a regular ol' sword seems like a > must-have, for their patron Immortal of warfare and leadership. > > Hmmmm... maybe, given that Karameikos is chock full of mounted knights now, > Halav ought to find himself a gallant (Exalted) steed to ride upon! Odin's > got his eight-legged Sleipner (sp), to travel around on, and Frey's got his > golden boar to accompany him into battle; what might Halav's noble warhorse > be like...? Perhaps the mortal Halav never used a sword but created the artifact later on when the people thought that he should have used one. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 20:31:05 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Priest of Ixion > David Eddings gave one reason for using chain mail in his Elenium series. > In this trilogy, a group of knights had long refused to use other armour > than chain. When the preceptor tried convincing them to use plate mail, > they threw him into the river in his plate mail. Down there he'd have > plenty of time figuring out the advantages of lighter armours. > > Håvard Actually, the many rivers in their home country were the reasons for wearing nothing heavier but chain mail. The preceptor was thrown into the waters of one of the greater harbours. Preceding to this another knight was thrown into the harbour wearing a chain mail - and this knight reappeared without his armour! The preceptor must have found something interesting on the bottom of the harbour. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 00:34:44 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail A friend of mine, who has made himself a chainmail (long-sleeved IIRC) tried once swimming in armor. He said, that if the water is calm, it is relatively easy (though tiresome) to swim even with a chain mail. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 09:32:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: [MYSTARA] - test 8 July 9:30am test *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #287 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, July 10 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 288 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters [MYSTARA] - re:Valdemar's Tome of Advanced Necromancy vol 1.0 Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters [MYSTARA] - TSR website RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR website [MYSTARA] - roolz Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website Re: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:18:37 +0200 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail Well...I think your friend's not the only one to put a chain mail and swim... I've seen at least two documentaries where skin - divers wore chain mails in order to be protected against mako sharks (Obviously that don't work against the big white one...) I think the problem with most metal armors (I'm thinking about plates) is that there's not much free space inside to room air in and there're not watertight...should they had enough space for air in them (and be watertight, so water doesn't flow in), I think it'll float. (Think about ships...they're made of metal, but even when they're still, they don't sink...why?...because they've enough air in them!...The same for submarines... they've compartments where they've air and they let flow in water when they want to "sink"). Chain mail has not this, but I don't think it's heavy as a plate and it's more flexible...so you can swim with it... Skarm The Warlock - -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Markus Olavi Montola A: Mystarophiles assembled Data: mercoledì 7 luglio 1999 23.40 Oggetto: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail >A friend of mine, who has made himself a chainmail (long-sleeved IIRC) >tried once swimming in armor. He said, that if the water is calm, it is >relatively easy (though tiresome) to swim even with a chain mail. > > > - Markus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >************************************************************************** * >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 05:22:32 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters Hmm.. Why is it that Hin Masters can go all the way to 35th level of magic use, while Elven treekeepers are limited in their levels. Last time i checked, elves live 3-4 times as long as halflings. Shouldn't a relatively ambitious Alfheimer be able to acheive mastery of his craft? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 15:38:03 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, SteelAngel wrote: > Why is it that Hin Masters can go all the way to 35th level of magic use, > while Elven treekeepers are limited in their levels. Last time i checked, > elves live 3-4 times as long as halflings. Shouldn't a relatively > ambitious Alfheimer be able to acheive mastery of his craft? Expecting these rules to be founded on logic? In my old campaign, I changed the rules allowing everyone to reach lvl 36. However, spellpower of level 20 was maximum for all demihumans. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:35:19 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters > Why is it that Hin Masters can go all the way to 35th level of magic use, > while Elven treekeepers are limited in their levels. Last time i checked, > elves live 3-4 times as long as halflings. Shouldn't a relatively > ambitious Alfheimer be able to acheive mastery of his craft? Rules are guidelines. Function of a rule is to be overruled. Role-playing books are to be exploited, abused and perverted. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:15:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin Turner Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > Rules are guidelines. > Function of a rule is to be overruled. > Role-playing books are to be exploited, abused and perverted. > > - Markus Ah, Markus, you non-conformist, you. I don't know about the "overruled" bit, but I like the "perverted" bit... Just me, I guess... ;-) - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ Wanting Mystara material in your hands instead of in your computer? Your wait is almost over: the Tome of Mystara is in production! Come see what we're about at www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081 Mystara Fthagn! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 00:05:04 +0300 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - re:Valdemar's Tome of Advanced Necromancy vol 1.0 >George Orwell wrote the novel 1984, where facistic "Party" uses that slogan. The idea of the book (one of them) is: how can one communicate or think if there are no words for negative meanings. The Party has twisted or removed all the negative words, removing negative meanings and thus enslaving the people. >There have been "Ministries of Peace" in the RW also -- meaning the defence ministry. Which means WAR ministry. Of course. I read 1984 but it was in hebrew so youre signature hasnt reminded me of the book. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:26:34 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters At 05:22 AM 7/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Hmm.. > >Why is it that Hin Masters can go all the way to 35th level of magic use, >while Elven treekeepers are limited in their levels. Last time i checked, >elves live 3-4 times as long as halflings. Shouldn't a relatively >ambitious Alfheimer be able to acheive mastery of his craft? > As was said, rules can be broken or bent, IYC. But I think the reasoning behind this was, since elves live a long time, they tend to view thing with a somewhat lackdaisical attitude. As if they had all the time in the world, which, they tend to have. So things tend to not get done, resulting in them not achieving as high levels. Just to take an extreme example. On the show Star Trek Voyager was a race called the Occampe for which 9 years was the normal lifespan. Did this hinder their development, not really, they just managed to fit more into those 9 years. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:58:49 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hin Masters >As was said, rules can be broken or bent, IYC. But I think the reasoning >behind >this was, since elves live a long time, they tend to view thing with a >somewhat lackdaisical attitude. As if they had all the time in the world, >which, they tend to have. So things tend to not get done, resulting in >them not achieving as high levels. > >Just to take an extreme example. On the show Star Trek Voyager was a race >called the Occampe for which 9 years was the normal lifespan. Did this >hinder their development, not really, they just managed to fit more into >those 9 years. > I agree with Andrew on this: just because a race has more (or less) time to do or learn things in, doesn't mean they're going to use that time with the same efficiency as we human beings would. If you look at it from a human's perspective, an elf may seem to take ages to get around to the next adventure ... in fact, the Alfheim Gaz recommends that DMs space their adventures several YEARS apart, in all-elf campaigns! Conversely, from an elf's perspective, human adventurers seem to rush around like hyperactive toddlers, getting into new messes every time the elves turn their backs for a second ... and learning things with the same phenomenal speed with which an infant IRL picks up language and motor-skills. If you've ever tried to keep up with an excited three-year-old, you've got the right idea of how most elves feel, trying to keep pace with humans and equally short-lived races. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:12:17 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSR website It seems that the TSR/WotC site has been changed yet again, and now I can't find the on-line articles from back issues of Dragon Magazine. Does anyone know where they are or if they'll be put back up? Thanks Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:57:52 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR website > It seems that the TSR/WotC site has been changed yet again, > and now I can't find the on-line articles from back issues > of Dragon Magazine. Does anyone know where they are or if > they'll be put back up? http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/Welcome.html Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 01:29:28 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - roolz > > Rules are guidelines. > > Function of a rule is to be overruled. > > Role-playing books are to be exploited, abused and perverted. > Ah, Markus, you non-conformist, you. I don't know about the "overruled" > bit, but I like the "perverted" bit... Just me, I guess... ;-) :-) But it is a fact that different people wrote different gazes. Some of them are on entirely different power levels. DotE is the 'worst' case, but seriously; who thinks that the High Masters of Cryptomancy or Witchcraft are 'balanced'? I can't take rules seriously, if a sword slash hurts barely enough to spoil a spell the victim is casting *just* when he was hit. No other effects. For me, playing D&D is an excuse of playing without rules. BTW; I played some time ago my first session of Warhammer Fantasy RPG. Funny system; first massive hit of 14pts of damage doesn't even slow up the bad guy. Next hit doing one point of damage cuts his hand off neatly and cleanly. BTW*2; Deadlands has rules that are really fun to use. Playing cards, dice, and even roulette chips work neatly together. Beautiful system. > --Frobozz-- - Markus www.hut.fi/~mmontola ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:22:29 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website >> It seems that the TSR/WotC site has been changed yet again, >> and now I can't find the on-line articles from back issues >> of Dragon Magazine. Does anyone know where they are or if >> they'll be put back up? > >http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/Welcome.html Thanks for the help, but even when I go there, I can't follow any of the links to the actual issues--is anyone else having the same problem? I really hope WotC hasn't decided to stop allowing access to these! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:49:32 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - TSR website > Thanks for the help, but even when I go there, I can't follow > any of the links to the actual issues--is anyone else having > the same problem? Yeah, I just tried it and had the same problem. A little experimentation shows that the main directory page is just screwed up; when I added an "/index.html" to the URL it worked fine. For example, clicking on "May - 145" under 1989 takes you here... http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/ Change it to this... http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/index.html ... and it works. This fix works for all the issues that I tried. Most web servers have an option to automatically return a standard page (often "index.html") when given a directory as a URL. I'd guess that they changed this and forgot to update the page. Someone should notify their webmaster, but I didn't see an email address. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 22:36:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jennifer Favia Guerra) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website <> Yes - I clicked on a couple of issues and got "403: Forbidden." Anyone have an idea wha's going on??? Jenn http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:45:56 -0400 From: "DM-Shocker" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website - ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Sullivan To: Sent: July 09, 1999 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website > Thanks for the help, but even when I go there, I can't follow any of the > links to the actual issues--is anyone else having the same problem? I > really hope WotC hasn't decided to stop allowing access to these! No, I just went to the ones that I had looked at just this past weekend, but thanks to TSR/WotC, for not keeping the site up to date, I had figured it was a matter of time. Perhaps they pulled the site off to update, or to make us salivate for the Dragon magazine CD-ROM that's suppose to be coming out. Only time will tell. Mike "So let me get this straight? The dragon swoops down and uses his breath weapon, and like idiots, you stand there while the Kender, god help me, says that the dragon's mother WERE footman's boots?" dm-shocker@worldnet.att.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 23:04:14 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website For my two cents maybe their getting ready to close that area? In the latest (the "pokemon") issue of Inquest I saw an ad for the Dragon Magazine CD-ROM coming out in August. Perhaps their closing/reworking the site since it's due out? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jennifer Favia Guerra To: Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 10:36 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website > < the links to the actual issues--is anyone else having the same > problem?>> > > Yes - I clicked on a couple of issues and got "403: Forbidden." Anyone > have an idea wha's going on??? > > Jenn > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/4270/ > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 21:07:13 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website >http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/ > >Change it to this... > >http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/index.html > >... and it works. This fix works for all the issues that I tried. Cool--thanks! Now if only we can get them to put more stuff up there--I scanned, converted to text, and sent the article about the Orcs of the Dark Jungle almost a year ago and it's still not there! I also can't find the old page they used to have explaining their back issue web policy that solicited such submissions--does anyone know whether they're still adding articles? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:36:38 -0400 From: "DM-Shocker" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSR website > >http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/ > > > >Change it to this... > > > >http://www.tsr.com/Dragon/Backissues/145may89/index.html > > > >... and it works. This fix works for all the issues that I tried. As I said, they aren't keeping the sites up to date. That is just sloppy work. Thanks though for the info. Mike "So let me get this straight? The dragon swoops down and uses his breath weapon, and like idiots, you stand there while the Kender, god help me, says that the dragon's mother WERE footman's boots?" dm-shocker@worldnet.att.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:24:22 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail > A friend of mine, who has made himself a chainmail (long-sleeved IIRC) > tried once swimming in armor. He said, that if the water is calm, it is > relatively easy (though tiresome) to swim even with a chain mail. IIRC Eddings' Genidian Knights from Thalesia use horses like all other knights in this world which they would use to cross rivers. But in case thrown from their horses they want to be able to reach the shore savely after dropping their armours. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #288 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, July 11 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 289 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - About merchant... [MYSTARA] - D&D Stuff for Sale [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? [MYSTARA] - Re: Children of Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Children of Immortals Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 21:19:51 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About merchant... > The advantage of being a Merchant is that the trade-rules presented in the > Gaz are a bit more generous to Merchants (IIRC), plus you gain access to > some spells which are specifically designed to help mercantile enterprises. > These spells are NOT the sort that can wipe out orc-hordes or save > kingdoms; rather, they assist the caster in running a caravan, handling and > packaging wares, making a good impression on buyers, keeping accounts, and > other business-related chores. They don't run any higher than 4th-level > magic, and even the high-level Merchants don't receive an especially large > number of spells per day ... just enough to give them an edge over the > competition. :-) I haven't ever played a merchant nor have I ever senn one being played, but I love this idea. What's really fascinating is that all those "spells" are no more than abilities every trader should have. As those have a much better chance like a similar ability I would prefer to describe those as a mixture of abilities and "merchanter's luck". Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 12:48:58 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D Stuff for Sale Hey everyone, I wanted to let you guys know that I have a copy of B1-9: In Search of Adventure up for grabs. It's in fair ondition, with cover scuffing, but the inside is near mint. Anyone interested in buying or trading (b10?...) should e-mail me personally. Thanx! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 16:18:39 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Looking through the list of minor Immortals from the Codex, I noticed an interesting fact: Liena, patron of Norwold, was actually the mother of Emperor Thincol in her mortal life. Having helped her son claim the Thyatian throne and assisted him in holding onto it, she then vanished from the Known World, eventually ascending to Pandius as an Initiate in the Sphere of Time. The interesting thing here is that, since she'd been pursuing the Path of the Dynast, Liena's very existance among the Immortals implies that -- barring historical paradoxes that retroactively deprive her of her Immortality -- the Torion family will UNQUESTIONABLY rule Thyatis, for at least three more generations! Eusebius is Liena's grandchild and (presumably) her "official heir" as a Dynast, so her Task of founding a dynasty is complete as of 1012 AC. The events of her Trial, however, haven't yet been played out in the Known World -- indeed, they can't even get started until Eusebius's reign is over -- and they'll need to be spread out among, at a minimum, three different Torion emperors. That means one of Eusebius's children will definitely inherit the crown (not necessarily his eldest son; it could be any biological child of his), and at least two subsequant emperors will also be descended from Eusebius. Whether or not these future heirs are a part of the official "Torion dynasty" is uncertain -- if an emperor leaves no male heir somewhere along the line, the surname of Liena's descendents might change -- but the fact that they'll be Thincol's descendents seems guaranteed ... or at least, as guaranteed as anything CAN be, when we're dealing with one of those history-warping Time-Immortals! So I guess ol' Porphy can finally relax, about his favorite KW nation's future: while it may have gotten knocked around a bit in the Almanacs, it looks like the Empire of Thyatis won't be collapsing on us for quiiiiiite a while, yet. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 22:49:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? > Looking through the list of minor Immortals from the Codex, I noticed an > interesting fact: Liena, patron of Norwold, was actually the mother of > Emperor Thincol in her mortal life. What is the Codex? Is this WOTI or fan-created? Either way, I don't like this. Why must every immortal meddle in affairs and why can't a leader actually come from the peasant classes? It's all greek myth done over - I prefer having a little difference for once. Have Thincol a lower class guy who took the throne on his own, like earlier sources made it out to be. - - Mischa (and yes, I do quote conservatives too, when I like the quote) "Senators and representatives... weigh every decision against the question, "How will this affect my fund-raising prospects?" rather than, "How will this affect the national interest?" - Barry Goldwater *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:07:02 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? >> Looking through the list of minor Immortals from the Codex, I noticed an >> interesting fact: Liena, patron of Norwold, was actually the mother of >> Emperor Thincol in her mortal life. > >What is the Codex? Is this WOTI or fan-created? It's WotI. The Codex is the rulebook for Immortals (NPC or PC). >Either way, I don't like >this. Why must every immortal meddle in affairs and why can't a leader >actually come from the peasant classes? It's all greek myth done over - I >prefer having a little difference for once. Have Thincol a lower class >guy who took the throne on his own, like earlier sources made it out to >be. At the time she helped her son's climb to power, Liena wasn't an Immortal yet! It's by helping Thincol out, AS A MORTAL, that plain ol' Aline Sigbertsdottir eventually earned her Immortality. Can't a guy even get a little support and advice from his mom -- who just happens to be a high-level cleric, and who DID come from a lower-class family in Norwold -- without people questioning his accomplishments...? Immortals can't have children, BTW, unless they surrender their Immortality completely to do so. And even if they DO resort to becoming 100% mortal for a time, in order to become a parent, the kid's got no better chance to succeed -- either in life OR on a quest for Immortality -- than any other mortal! So all those Greek heroes' being arbitrarily descended from gods isn't just a misplaced analogy: it's one that point-blank CAN'T happen on Mystara ... and which I, like Mischa, was happy to see outlawed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:25:16 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? On Sat, 10 Jul 1999, Mischa E Gelman wrote: > What is the Codex? Is this WOTI or fan-created? Either way, I don't like WoTI > this. Why must every immortal meddle in affairs and why can't a leader > actually come from the peasant classes? It's all greek myth done over - I Thincol did come from the lower classes. Thincol's MOTHER became immortal through simple Sphere of Time methods - I.e. create a dynasty. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 01:26:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Immortals can't have children, BTW, unless they surrender their Immortality Nope. WoTI gives optional rules for Immortal's Children. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 03:02:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Children of Immortals Boy, I haven't come out of the wood-work in a long time to make a post, but anyways... As always, please note that my views are pre-AD&D Mystara and thus my comments reflect this. >Immortals can't have children, BTW, unless they surrender their Immortality >completely to do so. And even if they DO resort to becoming 100% mortal >for a time, in order to become a parent, the kid's got no better chance to >succeed -- either in life OR on a quest for Immortality -- than any other >mortal! So all those Greek heroes' being arbitrarily descended from gods >isn't just a misplaced analogy: it's one that point-blank CAN'T happen on >Mystara ... and which I, like Mischa, was happy to see outlawed. I think it's important to maintain that having children is a matter of perspective, -especially- for Immortals. I believe that Immortals -can- have children, and this can be done in a number of ways; from creating a mortal child (race optional), to creating a being that possesses immortal power, but is itself still mortal (eg. Jumpers - "servants" of Time). How "birth" takes place depends upon what is giving "birth". Humans, and humanoid beings give birth in similar ways, but this does not mean that Immortals, or other obscure beings, must also create offspring in a like way. It's also important to note that an Immortal who creates a living being (and perhaps calls it their child) will, more often than not, be created within an outer plane (the immortals home-plane, for instance), or "inner" plane (ethereal, elements, etc...). Because of this, the being created will be an unbalanced creation, possessed of more of one sphere, less of another. For example, an Immortal of Time creates a mortal humanoid being. That being will have a high affinity/affiliation to the sphere of Time due to who created the being (Immortal of Time), but the sphere balance will also be influenced by the dominant sphere, or bias, of the plane they were "born" on. As we know, the Prime Plane, for mysterious reasons, is the only completely balanced plane of existance, while all others will still have a dominant sphere influencing them: a bias. So the characteristics of the dominant Sphere(s) present will play in to the nature of the being created, whereas those created upon the Prime Plane will be balanced unless we take in to account the Sphere of the immortal creating the being. This balance in a being created on the Prime is one of the main reasons so many of the Immortals were once prime planar beings, while so few are outer planar beings. Of course, there is the no-interference rule on the Prime that the Immortals are suppose to abide by...but what Immortal in their right mind would -not- meddle in the affairs of Mystara, eh? ;) It is possible, though unlikely, for an Immortal to aid that chances of a mortal ascending to Immortality since the granting of Immortality to anything is a highly scrutinized decision. Still, I wouldn't put it past the likes of Atzanteotl to interfere in such a way where it benefitted his skemes to promote Entropy. At any rate, if you find my reasonings offensive or just mad drivel, tag me a villian and kill me on sight. ;) Slainte! Brad - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 03:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: Children of Immortals On Sun, 11 Jul 1999, Brad McMillan wrote: > influenced by the dominant sphere, or bias, of the plane they were "born" Bias? That sounds like a gold box rule thingy. I don't have my old Immortals set handy, any special roolz for this? Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:25:00 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? >> Looking through the list of minor Immortals from the Codex, I noticed an >> interesting fact: Liena, patron of Norwold, was actually the mother of >> Emperor Thincol in her mortal life. > >What is the Codex? Is this WOTI or fan-created? Either way, I don't like >this. Why must every immortal meddle in affairs and why can't a leader >actually come from the peasant classes? It's all greek myth done over - I >prefer having a little difference for once. Have Thincol a lower class >guy who took the throne on his own, like earlier sources made it out to >be. Its Codex. I cant see why Thincols mother being an Immortal means that she was a noble - merely an adventurer. Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #289 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, July 11 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 290 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian mages spells Part 4 [MYSTARA] - Fw: [Fwd: [Fwd: Make a Wish!]] [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:05:39 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? I was wondering if anyone knew whatever happened to Mr. Alex Benson, the author of Operation Hydra. He left the Thyatian Navy right before all the good action was about to commence! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:28:59 -0400 From: Urklore The Iron Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Glantrian mages spells Part 4 I missed Posts 1-3, could someone email them to me or please repost. ************************************************************************ * Bill Schwartz, Billcutis of Borg, Iceman Incarnate, Internet Lord * * Galaxy Ranger (With Series-5 Brain Implant and Bio-Defenses) * * Leader of ANIME ADVENTURERS, Finisher of the World of XEEN, Tea Lord * * Level 7.7 DM, Keeper of the NetHOARD, Keeper of 81 RPG Systems * * Slave to the all powerful JOLT, Forever Knight Vampire Fledgling * * Hot Chocolate King, "Welcome", "You've got Mail", ROBOTECH Master * * Muad'dib Disciple, "Predacons TERRORIZE!" "Maximals MAXIMIZE!" * * "Die Autobots!!", "Clearly I can not choose the wine in front of me" * * "It musst give usss our preciousss!", "Warp 7.....Engage!." * * "Orbots Unite!", "Blood and Souls for my Lord Arioch!" UNIX Neophyte * * "Yes my lord?" "Ready to serve" Remember, Computers never ever lie * * Visit my lair brave adventurer @ http://www.anime-adventurers.com * ************************************************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:31:33 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fw: [Fwd: [Fwd: Make a Wish!]] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --Boundary_(ID_JR+yw/ZFPoE+aEvZQg1D/g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sorry this is just junkmail dont get mad at me please! - --Boundary_(ID_JR+yw/ZFPoE+aEvZQg1D/g) Content-type: text/plain; name=FwdMakea.txt; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-disposition: inline; filename=FwdMakea.txt Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Return-Path: Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net ([24.88.1.79]) by stmls01.atl.mediaone.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA23006 for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:50:37 -0400 Received: from chmls04.mediaone.net (chmls04 [24.128.1.114]) =09by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17554 =09for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (stsml01.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.1.7= 9]) =09by chmls04.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA23262 =09for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mediaone.net (client24105.atl.mediaone.net [24.88.24.105]) =09by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA17550 =09for ; Sat, 10 Jul 1999 15:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37868825.20C62254@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:39:17 -0400 From: judy sternad X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-MOEATL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Sternad Subject: [Fwd: Make a Wish!] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"------------A1C8791127E34FFD7C6C7= 5A5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------A1C8791127E34FFD7C6C75A5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >From Ms. Bramblett...... - --------------A1C8791127E34FFD7C6C75A5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from stsml01.atl.mediaone.net ([24.88.1.79]) by stmls01.atl.mediaone.net (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA4521 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:32:46 -0400 Received: from chmls04.mediaone.net (chmls04 [24.128.1.114]) =09by stsml01.atl.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA11184 =09for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: boheme@mindspring.com Received: from smtp3.mindspring.com (smtp3.mindspring.com [207.69.200.33]) =09by chmls04.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA08296 =09for ; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-37ka4ja.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.18.10= 6]) =09by smtp3.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA27335; =09Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201bec8d1$4b560040$6a1245cf@oemcomputer> To: "MaryG" , "Judy" , "Jeanette" , "Karen" , "Linda" , "Matthew" , "Milford" , "Susie" , "Tammy" , "Steve" Subject: Make a Wish! Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 19:32:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; =09boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_0067_01BEC8AF.78B4CF20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=3D_NextPart_000_0067_01BEC8AF.78B4CF20 Content-Type: text/plain; =09charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,,:cc,,,;. >> >>> >>>>>>>> cc$$$$$$$$$$$$$$cc >> >>> >>>>>>>> cc$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$cc >> >>> >>>>>>>> c$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$c >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,c$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,c$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,d$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$h$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,$$$$$u$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> J$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$b$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$$$MMMMM`$$$$$$$$MMMMM`$$$$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$$MMMM.$$$$$$$,MMMM $$$$$$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$,M";;; =3D `$$$$$$$$$$'M",,`",$$$$$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> ?$$$$,<( `) $$$$$$$$$$ ,(' =3D `)J$$$$? >> >>> >>>>>>>> ?$$$, <( ) $$$$$$$$$$$ ( )$$$$? >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$.`--' $$$$$$$$$$$$$,`--',$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> $$$$$$$$$$$????$$$$$$$$$$$' >> >>> >>>>>>>> d$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$b >> >>> >>>>>>>> $$$$$$$$$$$c,,,,c$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> "?$$$$P"" "$$$$$$???$$$$??" >> >>> >>>>>>>> $$$$$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> 4$$$$$c >> >>> >>>>>>>> ,$$$$$$$"c >> >>> >>>>>>>> z$<$$$$$$$`$, >> >>> >>>>>>>> z$<$$$$$$$$$`$c >> >>> >>>>>>>> <$$$$$$$$$$$;?$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$<$$$$$$$$$$$:$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> ?L$$$$$$$$$$$:$ >> >>> >>>>>>>> ?$$$$$$$$$$$d' >> >>> >>>>>>>> `$$$$$$$$$$F >> >>> >>>>>>>> `?$c`??3$F >> >>> >>>>>>>> CCC CCC >> >>> >>>>>>>> .,,,,,. =3D .,,,,,. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> > You have been seen by the tweety bird. He will grant you 1 >> >wish!!! Make Your wish when the count down is over!!! >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 10.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 9.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 8.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 7.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 6.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 5.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 4.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 3.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 2.. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> 1. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> **** MAKE A WISH****** >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> > Send this to 10 people within the hour you read this. >> > If you do, Your wish will come true. If you don't it will >> > become the opposite. Good luck!-- - ------=3D_NextPart_000_0067_01BEC8AF.78B4CF20 Content-Type: text/html; =09charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D             &=3D nbsp;=3D20 cc$$$$$$$$$$$$$$cc
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D   =3D20 ,c$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D  =3D20 ,c$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;        =3D20 ,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$h$$$'
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;       =3D20 ,$$$$$u$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;       =3D20 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;       =3D20 `$$$$$$$MMMMM`$$$$$$$$MMMMM`$$$$$$'
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;         =3D20 `$$$$$$MMMM.$$$$$$$,MMMM $$$$$$$$'
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;          =3D20 `$$$$$,M";;; `$$$$$$$$$$'M",,`",$$$$$$$'
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D =3D20 ?$$$$,<(   `) $$$$$$$$$$ ,('   =3D `)J$$$$?
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D             &=3D nbsp;  =3D20 z$<$$$$$$$`$,
>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>       =3D ;            =3D              =3D z$<$$$$$$$$$`$c
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>> >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>
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>> =3D >>>=3D20 >>>>>>>>
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- ------=3D_NextPart_000_0067_01BEC8AF.78B4CF20-- - --------------A1C8791127E34FFD7C6C75A5-- - --Boundary_(ID_JR+yw/ZFPoE+aEvZQg1D/g)-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:54:39 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? I've been snooping through my recently-acquired copy of the gold box's old IM rules. (Actually, I've been busting my lil' brain, trying to make heads or tails of its bizarre "physics"; if you don't have those rules, this probably isn't gonna make a shred of sense, folks! ;-D) And it occurs to me that the "Outer Beings" which Geoff, Andrew, and others have devised could fit into its cosmology, rather nicely ... provided, that is, we give the OBs permission to break just a few of the Immortals' "proven facts" about life forms, the multiverse, and how dimensional geometry works. (Hey, ANY Cthulhoid monstrosity that's worthy of the name oughta violate a known law of physics or two, eh...?) So, here's a bit of revisionist "cosmic theory" I'd like to test out, on all you IM-set experts and collectors of Unspeakable Outer Being lore: According to the IM books, the multiverse has five dimensions -- "dimensions" in the length/width/depth sense, not the "stacked paper plates" of the WotI Codex; such 'layered realities' might better be referred to as "continua" instead of dimensions, in order to prevent confusion -- known to the Immortals, plus an untold number of higher dimensions which the Vortex prevents them from reaching. Mortal races exist in four dimensions and perceive three: the first, second and third, for 'Normal' beings; the third, fourth, and fifth, for 'Nightmare' beings. Normal creatures and Nightmare creatures each sense the other's continuum in dreams, and are horrified by the 5th (or 1st) dimension and disoriented by the 4th (or 2nd). Immortals exist in all five dimensions, but can't perceive one of those five: either the 5th, if they'd been Normals in mortal life; or the 1st, if they used to be Nightmare natives. Old Ones, presumably, see all five of these dimensions and exist in six or more. Certain life forms, of a lower evolutionary grade than mortals, may exist in only three dimensions and perceive two, or in two dimensions and perceive one. The big "proven fact" that the Immortals have deduced from all this -- along with the characteristics of "nippers" on the Astral Plane, that exist in the second, third, and fourth dimensions -- is that no being can exist if its dimensions aren't contiguous: there's no combining dimensions 1, 2, and 4 while omitting the third dimension, for example. THAT kind of cosmic geometry just doesn't happen, so far as the Immortals know; it isn't feasible, given everything they believe they've discovered about the nature of reality. It's ludicrous. It's delusional. It just plain makes no sense! Which is where the OBs come in, natch. :-) The Immortals are dead wrong, you see. There CAN be creatures which exist in discontiguous dimensions ... they're just not a form of life which contiguously-comprised creatures can fully conceive of*! Rather, they're alien and abhorrent by the standards of BOTH Normals and Nightmares: baffling/mind-wrenching in their geometry, incomprehensible/deranged in their intellects, and unearthly/abnormal in their bodily composition. Just as Normal and Nightmare beings each exist within the Prime Plane, but in separate dimensional 'continua', so do the "Discontiguates" exist within the same multiverse as Contiguous beings; yet geometrically-contiguous life forms can perceive these weird entities only in nightmares, or if part of their dimensional makeup happens to mimic that of Contiguous creatures. [* - Just TRY to picture a critter with dimensions that don't "match up" -- that's got volume without any width, or a fourth dimension without any third. Go on, I dare you! Can't do it...? See, I proved they're "inconceivable"! :-D] Most of the "Servitors" which Geoff has described could easily be classified as mortal (four-dimensional) Discontiguates. Those having material substance -- servitors of Yurrgh-Thal, Zhochal, Hresha-rhak -- exist in the 1st through 3rd dimensions, plus the 5TH ... the same one, that makes Nightmare creatures so horrid-looking to Normals! Thus, they appear hideous to all Normals, and can potentially drive onlookers mad by their very appearance. (Presumably there are Servitors in the Nightmares' continuum, who exist in the 1st dimension as well as the Nightmares' usual three; they'd freak out diaboli, just as much!) They resemble Contiguous life in their three visible dimensions, yet that extra dimension that's also a part of them gives Normals the screaming heebie-jeebies, just from being around them. To a Normal-derived Immortal (who can't perceive the 5th-dimensional component), such servitors might initially "pass" for mortals under cursory examination, but closer study reveals that there's something innately-abnormal about them: their bodies and living energies, though they appear whole and intact in the three dimensions Normals can perceive, also seem to "trail off" as if to attach to additional body parts and structures, in directions which the Immortal's close-peering eyes can't manage to follow. The X'yeth leeches have already been described as Ethereal beings who extend tendrils of mental energy into the Prime; but perhaps a better alternative would be to call them Discontiguates of the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 5th dimensions. Lacking the 3rd dimension's volume, they'd appear two-dimensional (as well as horrific!), to both Normals and Nightmares. This might help them to insinuate their bodies into the tissues of a host, when feeding on the Prime Plane; it'd also let these "merchants" trade with/prey upon both continua's inhabitants. Existing within the 2nd and 4th dimensions -- i.e. the two that make Teleportation possible, for the different continua's natives -- as well as within the nightmare-inducing ones, they would have a capacity to twist the fabric of Euclidian space inside-out, in a suitably-Lovecraftian manner. Since X'yeth leeches are mortal, they'll be "blind" to one of their four dimensions; perhaps those who are blind to the 1st dimension prey upon Nightmares, while others who are blind to the 5th prey on Normals. The so-called "Outer Beings" -- the big, powerful ones worshipped by Carnifex and other cultists -- are the Discontiguates' equivalent of Immortals. They are five-dimensional beings, comparable to Immortals in this respect ... but the series of dimensions they occupy aren't consecutive. Instead of the 1st through 5th, the ruling OBs exist in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and SIXTH dimensions! (Yes, they're impinging on "Old One" turf.) They lack any presence in the 3rd dimension -- the one that gives both Normal and Nightmare beings their 'volume' -- and so are fundamentally alien to Normal beings, Nightmare beings, Immortals of either continuum... and nippers, for that matter! Because the Outer Beings exist in the 1st and 5th dimensions, they are horrific to ALL non-Discontiguates, whether Normal or Nightmare. Since they also exist in the 2nd and 4th dimensions -- the two dimensions that endow a world with magic, from the respective continuums of Nightmare and Normal life -- they have access to a LOT of magical power, of a kind that combines the two hyperspace-dimensions' qualities and is equivalent to, yet inherently UNlike, Immortals' unique magic. Of course they may also warp the fabric of space, like X'yeth leeches do. As they do NOT exist in the 3rd dimension, the Outer Beings can't perceive non-Discontiguates as having 'volume', i.e. substance. Thus, Contiguous forms of life -- even Immortals - -- seem inherently "unreal" to them, such that their lives and endeavors don't, and CAN'T, be deemed significant or deserving by the OBs. Conversely, since their own bodies lack the usual 3rd dimension but partake of the 6th, their material substance -- study as an Immortal's, yet "alien" to all Contiguous life -- differs greatly from that of the Normal or Nightmare continua, making them seeming impervious to any mortal weapon or spell. Because the Outer Beings also exist in the 6th dimension, on common ground with the Old Ones, they have otherworldly properties which the Immortals, themselves, aren't equipped to quantify or understand ... let alone, mere mortals! This puts the OBs right where other writers have said they belong, on the scale of things: beyond Immortals' comprehension and of greater strength than they, yet (since they lack the 3rd dimension) not quiiiiiite a match for the Old Ones. Note that their 6th-dimensional facet also makes an Outer Being -- which, under other circumstances, would look two-dimensional to Normals or Nightmares -- seem "massive" and imposing to an overwhelming degree, in a way that mere physical bulk can't even come close to. The Outer Beings can't perceive the 6th dimension -- it's their "blind" dimension, just as Immortals are blind to the 5th or 1st -- but greater-than-Immortal power is available to them because of their existence in that obscure 'angle' of the cosmos. Soooo... we've got suitably-alien Outer Beings, whose geometry is inherently warped/"impossible", in a way ol' HPL would like. We have them driving people insane with their looks and (since they're partially in the 5th and 1st dimensions) contacting and hassling/propositioning Normals and Nightmares, alike, in their dreams. We have some of them popping between planes, Hound-of-Tindalos style, and others -- the really nasty, BIG, munch-small-planets-for-breakfast kind! -- possessed of powers and weird characteristics which even the Immortals haven't been able to cope with or figure out. Now all we have to do is imprison the ugly muthahs. Suppose the Old Ones didn't REALLY create the Vortex, just to corral the Immortals in the five dimensions which make up these potential Old Ones' playpen? Suppose they originally did it, so they could cut off the Outer Beings' multiversal facets -- the 1st-, 2nd-, 4th-, and 5th-dimensional parts of them -- from their SIXTH-dimensional facet ... the same component that'd made them the Old Ones' near-equals? And suppose it's their having DONE this, to sever the OBs' connection to such power, that created both the Normal AND Nightmare continua, in the first place? Sure, the IM book SAYS that the Vortex's creation is what kicked off the Nightmare creatures' evolution, and the Normals had appeared well before then ... but given how the boxed set's written for Normal Immortal-campaigns only, that seems like a pretty whopping huge conclusion to jump to. How could Pandius's Immortals possibly KNOW whether their own (i.e. Normal) life forms had actually pre-dated the Nightmare ones, or not? How, for that matter, could they tell it wasn't the NIGHTMARE creatures (!) who were first to exist, and that NORMAL life forms weren't the ones who only arose with the Vortex?! (We shouldn't necessarily take Mentzner's word on this. After all, Frank IS a human rather than a diabolus -- at least he was, the last time I saw his picture in Dragon! ;-) -- and his conclusions about the issue might easily have subject to personal bias. :-D) Who's to say there isn't a city full of Nightmare Immortals, off in the other continuum, who are just as convinced that it's THEY, who came first, and that it's the Normal version of everything which is a mirror-inverted copy...? Maybe the Nightmare and Normal Immortals should get together and toss a coin for it, because neither bunch is going to conclusively PROVE they were the original form of life in the multiverse. Instead, given how Normal and Nightmare beings ARE such exact "photographic negatives" of one another -- not just to the cursory degree to which they might, if one took shape from the others' nightmares; but in every conceivable respect, from their dimensional makeup to the magical energies they employ to their moral/ethical compass -- I have to conclude the most plausible history for the multiverse is for Normal and Nightmare beings to have originated simultaneously. Life as we know it kicked off, in each of these continua, shortly after the Outer Beings had been confined behind the Dimensional Vortex; up until that point, higher-dimensional entities and their constructs may have been the ONLY living beings, within the cosmos! Normal and Nightmare life's proliferation on the Prime was a "side effect" of the Barrier's having been erected to control the OBs ... an event which no living Immortal of either sort can remember, and which neither continuum's Immortals, therefore, can truly claim to have preceded. The Old Ones only discovered that these new life forms had the potential to attain Immortality, after the Vortex had already been established; that the Barrier happens to block Immortals from higher dimensions, as well as hold the Outer Beings in check, was a happy accident for the Old Ones ... NOT the intended purpose for which they created the Vortex, in the first place. Furthermore, I propose that ever since the Vortex was laid, each continuum has undergone the eternal "cosmic cycle" described in PC1, with the two continua's Spheres being exactly out-of-phase with one another (i.e. Chaos and Entropy are now "good guys" in the Nightmare continuum, as it moves from disorder to order via an inversion of Normal thermodynamics). Wait a few trillion years for the Prime Plane to run down -- eroding into pure entropy for the Normals' continuum, and stagnating into pure stasis for that of Nightmares -- and the Spheres of the two continua will switch polarity. Finally, I propose that the "sixth dimension" of the Old Ones is NOT next to the 5th -- which is, after all, an arbitrary number; Nightmare-Immortals count off these same dimensions the other way around -- but adjacent to what Immortals call the THIRD dimension: the sole angle held in common by both Normal and Nightmare life forms, and from whence sprang both the Prime-planar continua (not to mention the Astral Plane!). This means that geometric dimensions in the oD&D multiverse display a "Y"-shaped pattern of adjacency, with the 1st and 2nd comprising one arm of the 'Y', the 5th and 4th forming the other, and the 3rd dimension constituting a nexus where the two arms -- and thus, both of the Prime Plane's continua -- converge. The 6th and higher dimensions, branching off from the 3rd dimensional nexus-point, make up the stem of the 'Y'. 1 5 2 4 3 <- This is how it looks. 6 7 + In this view of things, Normal and Nightmare beings really ARE dimensional mirror images of one another -- diametric opposites equidistant from the higher dimensions -- and both are equally eligable to attain Immortal or, potentially, Old One status. That makes more sense than having the 6th dimension adjacent to the 5th ... which would imply Normals are the LAST bunch of mortals you'd expect to evolve into Old Ones, since they'd be starting out several "angles" further from the 6th dimension (the one they need to gain access to) than their Nightmare-born counterparts! On the other hand, placing the 6th and higher dimensions adjacent to the 3rd means that not only are Immortals not finding the higher dimensions, due to the Vortex's being in the way ... but they've ALSO been looking in the wrong 'direction', to begin with (!), by assuming that the 5th dimension (or the 1st, for Nightmare-Immortals) is the right frame of reference from which to commence their search. Moreover, this arrangement means that the Outer Beings, if they lack the 3rd dimension, are missing the very "hub" that would otherwise unite their three facets -- 1st/2nd, 4th/5th, and 6th dimensional parts -- into an unbreakable whole, as it does for the (Contiguous) Old Ones. By laying the Barrier between the 6th dimension and the other five, the Old Ones could deny the Outer Beings any use of their Old-One-level powers ... yet not cut off their OWN 6th-dimension-derived magics (accessible to the Old Ones via their contiguous 3rd dimensions), in the process! The Outer Beings lost their ability to do anything beyond Immortals' capacities, when the Barrier disrupted their tenuous Discontiguates' connection to the 6th dimension. Furthermore, without those 6th-dimensional facets of their natures to keep their remaining, TWOfold facets replenished with Old-One-level strength, the Outer Beings' two-dimensional 1st/2nd and 4th/5th facets also lost considerable Immortal-level power, such that the Old Ones succeeded in draining away the OBs' Power Points until their Discontiguate enemies collapsed into the stupor of hibernation. Since the Old Ones can perceive all four dimensions (1, 2, 4 & 5) on which the Outer Beings' multiversal components exist, they aren't befuddled by their discontiguous nature (well, not much...) the way mortals or Immortals are. Indeed, once the Beings had been "tranquilized" by the Vortex's appearance, the OOs quickly took advantage of their 'disconnected' makeup, dividing up the multiversal facets of each Being and imprisoning them in separate, hidden locations throughout the cosmos. While those Immortals and others who are "in the know" about the Outer Beings believe their sleeping bodies are confined in one place, and their minds/spirits, in another, this is merely an analogy: what's REALLY been sealed "beneath the seas or within the hearts of stars" are the separated 1st/2nd dimensions, and 4th/5th dimensions, of Outer Beings in an Old One-induced coma. Reuniting these facets would bring the OBs back to consciousness (or at least whatever passes for it, in Discontiguates), but only a fraction of their original power: try as the OB-cultists might, there's no WAY that mortal or even Immortal characters are going to breach the Dimensional Vortex, reunite their 6th dimensional facets with the other ones, and let the Beings' full, Old-One-equivalent powers run amok! But since an OB whose other facets are brought back together will have four out of five dimensions to draw upon -- the same four that it could always perceive, and the four which give them access to spacial travel and magic from BOTH the Normal and Nightmare realms -- they'll be able to do anything within the bounds of either continuum's mortal OR Immortal (but not Old One) magic. Not a particularly comforting prospect even for the Old Ones, considering these buggers are bound to be irked about having had their dimensions torn asunder. No matter how bizarre or discontiguous or preposterous your body's geometry is, that kind of treatment's gotta HURT! Still here? Have I given you all a headache, yet...? Got you seeing round corners and knocking down walls with your head, like I've been with those blasted IM booklets? Sorry, I'll stop typing this gibberish now! But do let me know what you think of this 'too-weird-to-be-weird' idea, all right...? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #290 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 12 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 291 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: RE: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? [MYSTARA] - retailers in Chicago area Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? [MYSTARA] - [Off-Topic] Boycott of Yahoo!/Geocities is Over... Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:13:43 +1000 From: Murphy Jason Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? I'm sorry Sharon, I had to give your Thesis a failing grade which means your Phd in Outer Planer Geomentry will be held back another year. When will you grad students learn to write a bibliography dammit ;-) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 > -----Original Message----- > From: Sharon Dornhoff [SMTP:dornhoff@bio.umass.edu] > Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 9:55 AM > To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? > > I've been snooping through my recently-acquired copy of the gold box's old > IM rules. (Actually, I've been busting my lil' brain, trying to make > heads > or tails of its bizarre "physics"; if you don't have those rules, this > probably isn't gonna make a shred of sense, folks! ;-D) And it occurs to > me that the "Outer Beings" which Geoff, Andrew, and others have devised > could fit into its cosmology, rather nicely ... provided, that is, we give > the OBs permission to break just a few of the Immortals' "proven facts" > about life forms, the multiverse, and how dimensional geometry works. > (Hey, ANY Cthulhoid monstrosity that's worthy of the name oughta violate a > known law of physics or two, eh...?) > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:38:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? > It's WotI. The Codex is the rulebook for Immortals (NPC or PC). Okay - thanks for the clarification. > At the time she helped her son's climb to power, Liena wasn't an Immortal > yet! Again, the clarification helps - my rant can be formally cancelled now that I have the facts. > It's by helping Thincol out, AS A MORTAL, that plain ol' Aline > Sigbertsdottir eventually earned her Immortality. It's time mothers got some respect! > mortal! So all those Greek heroes' being arbitrarily descended from gods > isn't just a misplaced analogy: it's one that point-blank CAN'T happen on > Mystara ... and which I, like Mischa, was happy to see outlawed. I didn't even know it was outlawed, but am glad it is. One or two isn't bad, but it should not be the rule. I really like the meritocracy concept of Mystaran immortality where you have to do a heckuva lot to earn it. While I don't like being wrong, this time I am glad I was. - - Mischa The primary standard the Bible gives us for judging any economic system is the priority of the poor. The righteousness of a people is to be seen in how they treat the weakest members of society - Danny Duncan Collum, in "Who is my neighbor? Economics as if values matter" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:55:42 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Ooo.. My head hurts.. Shame on you for making me conceive 13 sided regular polyhedrons! I just lost 10 SAN points.. Anyhoo, that whacky dimensional physics works in describing the OB's 'existence'. However, my question (as a physicist) is this: If spatial dimensions 1-2-3 are length-plane-volume, then spatial dimensions 5-4-3 would be antilength-antiplane-volume, right? Well, that leaves us in a quandary. Volume has to be shared between both 'real' dimensions and 'nightmare' dimensions, ergo, the units should work out between them. What if we consider antilength and antiplane to be in units of imaginary length and negative area. However... i cubed is -i the third dimension - 'volume' is actually negative imaginary volume. exactly the opposite than what we need. Therefore, we cannot term 5-4-3 as antilength-antiplane-antivolume, and since that idea doesn't work, we cannot also term 1-2-3 as length-plane-volume. what if 1-2-3 are simple orthogonal basis vectors? i.e. we can think of those vectors creating a x-y-z coordinate axis, restricted to positive x-y-z. according to your Y-model, then, if vector 3 is to be shared between 1-2 and 5-4, then vectors 5-4 have to be simply the negative forms of vectors 1-2 respectively. therefore, vector 3 covers the real axis, while vectors 1-2 cover only the positive reals, and 5-4 cover the negative reals (With zero belonging to both). This solution then solves volume the same way for both types of creature - Nightmare creatues have negative width and length, positive height, and positive volume. Similarly for Normals, who have positive length, width and height, and positive volume. This also opens the way for negative volume, but that makes no sense. However, OBs or OOs may be able to manifest this. Whew. The fourth spatial dimension (the 6th D&D dimension) has to be orthogal to the previous coordiante axis. THAT I don't want to get into, since that requires a bit of hypergeometry that I am not ready to describe. Ethan - Now, if e want to, we can remove this Y-idea, and work with 5 mutually orthogonal functions... Ooo.. Linear Algebra! What's my Hamiltonian? - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 04:45:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? A very interesting write-up! :) You were definitely on a roll there, weren't you. ;) I have a consideration of my own after reading what you posted... >This means that >geometric dimensions in the oD&D multiverse display a "Y"-shaped pattern of >adjacency, with the 1st and 2nd comprising one arm of the 'Y', the 5th and >4th forming the other, and the 3rd dimension constituting a nexus where the >two arms -- and thus, both of the Prime Plane's continua -- converge. The >6th and higher dimensions, branching off from the 3rd dimensional >nexus-point, make up the stem of the 'Y'. > >1 5 > 2 4 > 3 <- This is how it looks. > 6 > 7 > + > >In this view of things, Normal and Nightmare beings really ARE dimensional >mirror images of one another -- diametric opposites equidistant from the >higher dimensions -- and both are equally eligable to attain Immortal or, >potentially, Old One status. In looking at what you wrote above, would it then make sense to suggest that the barrier, or Void/Vortex, exists not only beyond the 5th dimension, but also "beyond" the 1st -- in reverse? You made the comparison of a mirror image between 1-3rd and 3-5th dimensions. We know of the barrier (AKA the 6th dimension) beyond the 5th, but perhaps the barrier exists "below" the 1st dimension as well? This creates a bit of symmetry to the mirror image concept. So then we have... 6 6 1 5 2 4 3 6 7 + What do you think? Brad > > >Still here? Have I given you all a headache, yet...? Got you seeing round >corners and knocking down walls with your head, like I've been with those >blasted IM booklets? Sorry, I'll stop typing this gibberish now! But do >let me know what you think of this 'too-weird-to-be-weird' idea, all >right...? :-) > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 11:03:33 +0200 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?=" Subject: [MYSTARA] - retailers in Chicago area Dear MMListers, next october I am tavelling to Chicago to attend a congress. Boring and serious business, but, as it is the first time I am travelling to USA, I would like to go treasure-hunting in my free time and look for some OD&D items, expecting to have more luck there than in Europe. I would be very grateful if you people in the list from the States could give some info on especialized game and RPG stores in the Chicago area. Thanks, Andrés *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:20:02 +0100 From: Flossy Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Hi there, I can see you've been thinking about this far too much :-D I've always preferred the Gold Box rules on Immortals than the stuff that came in WOTI, Immortals are just too samey in game mechanic terms according to the WOTI set. Anyway, onto what you wrote about. I think it does explain an awful lot about Lovecraftian being, and I like that, and making some of the existing material a more 'opinionated' description helps keep players in the dark about exactly what the truth of the matter is. Well done on your bizarre physics essay:-) One thing though, surely the Outer Beings must have some sort direct relationship to the Old Ones, where you thinking of an Elder Race versus Old Ones dichotomy going on? Are Old Ones being brought into existence to fight a war against the Outer Beings? Anyway, it'd be nice to hear some more thoughts on the matter :-) Bye for now Flossy > I've been snooping through my recently-acquired copy of the gold box's old > IM rules. (Actually, I've been busting my lil' brain, trying to make heads > or tails of its bizarre "physics"; *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Flossy wrote: >One thing though, surely the Outer Beings must have some sort direct >relationship to the Old Ones, where you thinking of an Elder Race versus >Old Ones dichotomy going on? Are Old Ones being brought into existence to >fight a war against the Outer Beings? According to my writings, the Outer Beings do have a direct link with the Old Ones. It's contained in my article on insanity rules for Mystara, a revision of which is due to be posted shortly. :) The OBs and OOS, IMC, were equal in power at some distant time (before the Vortex imprisonment incident). Both created worlds on vast scales, but it was the OBs, who lacked discipline and balance (being evil and chaos incarnate) who threatened the young multiverse, setting off a great war of titanic proportions. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:48:24 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? >> So all those Greek heroes' being arbitrarily descended from gods >> isn't just a misplaced analogy: it's one that point-blank CAN'T happen on >> Mystara ... and which I, like Mischa, was happy to see outlawed. > >I didn't even know it was outlawed, but am glad it is. One or two isn't >bad, but it should not be the rule. I really like the meritocracy concept >of Mystaran immortality where you have to do a heckuva lot to earn it. >While I don't like being wrong, this time I am glad I was. > >- Mischa > Yes, I like the way would-be Immortals all have to start out on the same footing ... no matter WHO their parents were. :-) Have you ever read the novel "The King Must Die", Mischa? It re-tells the legend of Theseus and the Minotaur, but based upon what IRL Minoan Crete was actually like ... kind of one possible "true history", that could've given rise to the myth. The author makes use of the anthropological theory that any child conceived during ceremonies dedicated to one of the early Greeks' gods -- during a sacred festival, as a fertility-priestess's initiation, at big drunken parties after Zeus's athletic games, etc -- might have been referred to as that god's "child". This would've been a bit like how children have godparents nowadays, in that actual, biological parentage was never implied. But somewhere along the line, the original meaning of the expression was lost to history, so the recorders of old Mycenean legends assumed the gods actually conceived or bore all those heroes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 13:50:51 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >i cubed is -i > >the third dimension - 'volume' is actually negative imaginary volume. >exactly the opposite than what we need. > >Therefore, we cannot term 5-4-3 as antilength-antiplane-antivolume, and >since that idea doesn't work, we cannot also term 1-2-3 as >length-plane-volume. > >what if 1-2-3 are simple orthogonal basis vectors? i.e. we can think of >those vectors creating a x-y-z coordinate axis, restricted to positive >x-y-z. > >according to your Y-model, then, if vector 3 is to be shared between 1-2 >and 5-4, then vectors 5-4 have to be simply the negative forms of vectors >1-2 respectively. therefore, vector 3 covers the real axis, >while vectors 1-2 cover only the positive reals, and 5-4 cover the >negative reals (With zero belonging to both). Ack, now MY head hurts...! ***whimper*** ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:49:40 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? > In looking at what you wrote above, would it then make sense to >suggest that the barrier, or Void/Vortex, exists not only beyond the 5th >dimension, but also "beyond" the 1st -- in reverse? You made the comparison >of a mirror image between 1-3rd and 3-5th dimensions. We know of the barrier >(AKA the 6th dimension) beyond the 5th, but perhaps the barrier exists >"below" the 1st dimension as well? This creates a bit of symmetry to the >mirror image concept. So then we have... > > 6 6 > 1 5 > 2 4 > 3 > 6 > 7 > + > > What do you think? Yes, there ought to something that keeps the Immortals from pursuing the arms of the "Y" any further, as well. That's another detail the IM boxed set doesn't seem to address: what dimensions, if any, might lie BELOW the 1st? Is there more Vortex there? Does the cosmos just dead-end? Or would an Immortal checking "beneath" the 1st dimension (or 5th, for a Nightmare Immortal) be reduced to a 0-dimensional singularity and become trapped forever? Perhaps the Old Ones, once they saw how this new five-dimensional multiverse was shaping up, wanted to keep the Immortals from exploring in the wrong "direction" -- eventually they want them to become OOs, after all; if they evolved along another path, who knows WHAT they might turn into...? -- and so extended the Vortex to "cap off" the arms of the Y. That would give us this picture: ? ? V V 1 5 2 4 3 V 6 7 + "V" indicates locations where Immortals run into the Vortex, if they explore too far. (That's why they keep hitting it, while probing the tips of the Y's arms ... even though the stem is the part they should be TRYING to access.) The plus-sign indicates dimensions which the Old Ones might be trying to figure out, much as the Immortals try to figure out the sixth. The question-marks could be just about ANYTHING the Old Ones didn't want the Immortals to go wandering into, from other realities (like the AD&D multiverse) to structurally-unstable realms where dreams might originate (since the adjacent 1st and 5th dimensions influence dreamers), to a whole lotta nothing: just vacant, neverending oblivion. Hey, look out gang: another idea just struck me. Perhaps becoming an Old One shouldn't JUST involve becoming Full Hierarch twice, but becoming one in each of the two continua ... once as a Normal, once as a Nightmare! This would mean that the Immortal gets to experience reality from the viewpoints of BOTH "arms" of the Y, in the course of his or her advancement; and thus, to become as familiar as possible with all five known dimensions, having learned to inhabit and perceive each one in turn. Moreover, would-be Old One could also shed their parochial belief -- a prejudice common to Normal and Nightmare Immortals, alike -- that their own continuum must be older and more important than the other, in the process. This prepares the character for his or her future role as an Old One, in overseeing both these realms as an equitable and broad-minded custodian. This means that Old Ones might not be quiiiiite as impartial as we thought, when it comes to what "mere" Immortals are up to. Rather, they may lend a subtle hand in guiding Immortals to eventually join their ranks, just as Immortals work to shepherd mortals along the Paths of Immortality. In the Old Ones' case, this means they need do nothing more than pull a 'switcheroo' on any Full Hierarchs who choose to become mortal again, by transferring their spirits into mortal bodies in the opposite continuum, instead of into whichever bodies they'd intended to assume, in their own. Memory of the previous continuum is wiped away so that they won't find their new forms horrific, and those memories aren't recovered until Old One status is attained, and the character can accept both Normal and Nightmare beings as worthy forms of life. That'd certainly explain why the "Path of Old One-ness" has to be taken TWICE ... a strange requirement, otherwise, since you'd think that mastery of all FIVE Spheres would be required, for someone to transcend "mere" Immortals' limitations! (Not that many Immortals would survive the process of becoming an Old One, if they had to relinquish their Immortality four times, instead of just once...!) But attaining a Full Hierarchy once in each continuum -- and thus, learning about a different part of the cosmos's dimensional framework, each time -- makes sense, and sounds a LOT less arbitrary than just "climb ladder, return to bottom, repeat". :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:29:28 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >One thing though, surely the Outer Beings must have some sort direct >relationship to the Old Ones, where you thinking of an Elder Race versus >Old >Ones dichotomy going on? Are Old Ones being brought into existence to >fight a >war against the Outer Beings? Well, I'd had it in the back of my mind that the Outer Beings might be constructs created by the Old Ones. We know that the OOs can't 'breed true', any more than Immortals can, so maybe they were trying to create entities that were six-dimensional like themselves, and would become their "children". Something went wrong; the 3rd dimensional aspect of their creations was lost; and instead of turning out like the Old Ones wanted them to, the Outer Beings became inherently alien and dangerous to their makers. This continues a pattern in which no power -- Old One, Immortal, or mortal - -- can artificially create life forms that are of their own caliber. Immortals create mortals all the time, yet they CAN'T produce new Immortals in the same way, and the Old Ones' one attempt at creating more Old Ones was a disaster! Presumably, Old Ones can create Immortals as easily as the Immortals do, mortals -- that might be where Sinbad comes in -- but they avoid this because such "ready-made" Immortals seldom have what it takes, to become Old Ones themselves. ("Become a grubby, breakable little mortal ... who, ME!?") Mortals may be inherently incapable of creating other mortal life forms via magic -- they can alter or combine existing creatures as when the Nithians created the gnolls, and they can mimic life with non-living constructs, but AFAWK they can't create true species from nothing -- although the creation of humble, two-dimensional life forms is hypothetically possible. What really got the Old Ones' attention, of course, is that MORTAL life -- adapted to live in the restricted confines of the five Vortex-bound dimensions -- can reproduce itself biologically ... perhaps due to the fact that mortal lifeforce is so self-contained, its entire essence concentrated within four dimensions. As soon as the Old Ones realized this, they knew they'd stumbled upon a MUCH better way to increase their numbers -- regardless of long it might take, for Normals and Nightmares to evolve into their equals -- than trying to construct offspring directly. So the "Outer Being" project was a success, in the sense that it indirectly led to the Old Ones' gaining new members ... even though their actual CREATIONS, the Beings themselves, turned out to be a bunch of creepy, defective, ungrateful brats. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:29:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Off-Topic] Boycott of Yahoo!/Geocities is Over... Heya: I remember a flurry of activity here about the Yahoo!/Geocities TOS. They've apparently completly re-worded the offending passage and the boycott has been officially ended. Read about it here: Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:38:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >Perhaps the Old Ones, once they saw how this new five-dimensional >multiverse was shaping up, wanted to keep the Immortals from exploring in >the wrong "direction" -- eventually they want them to become OOs, after >all; if they evolved along another path, who knows WHAT they might turn >into...? -- and so extended the Vortex to "cap off" the arms of the Y. >That would give us this picture: > >? ? > V V > 1 5 > 2 4 > 3 > V > 6 > 7 > + I'm liking these ideas! :) I agree. I think the Old Ones confined/isolated the Immortals to control their learning environment. By containing them in such a way, the possibilities for exploration become limited; Immortals are forced to acquire specific knowledge from this selective environment. Therefore, Immortals could potentially learn exactly what they needed to learn to ascend to "Old Onehood". I always wondered about the system of becoming a Hierarch twice as the formula to ascending further. I think your thoughts have merit! They make sense, at least (which is bloody strange considering exactly what we're talking about here, hehe)! :) Brad - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:58:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? On Mon, 12 Jul 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > an Immortal checking "beneath" the 1st dimension (or 5th, for a Nightmare > Immortal) be reduced to a 0-dimensional singularity and become trapped > forever? Well, below 1 spatial dimension is a singularity. Just a point. A finite mathematical point. The OOs didn't need to cap it off, since it is by itself a cap. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:16:53 +0200 From: Francesco Specchio Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail >..... (Think about ships...they're made of metal, but even >when they're still, >they don't sink...why?...because they've enough air in them!...The same for >submarines... >Skarm The Warlock Dear boy, i bet u're not so clever in engineering... Ships don't sink cause of a principle that Archimede thought centuries ago. What about a boat with a big hole...air doesn't run out from it...but water comes in! Forget my ital-english Tornado - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- ...o bella mia...io vado via...e non ti porto con me... ...c'e' un viaggio che...ognuno fa...solo con se'... - ------------------------------------------------------------tuono@freenet.hu t.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:24:49 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Is Thincol's legacy "insured" by his mom? > the Torion family will UNQUESTIONABLY rule Thyatis, for at > least three more generations! This might be true. OTOH I've read once that there is still the possibility that a dynast's actions could create a parallel version of the multiverse which need not to have consequences for the mainstream universe. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:32:54 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? This discussion recalls the major problem that I have always had with the gold box Immortals' Rules -- namely, just which dimensions are the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd? While we know that there are three dimensions of space in the "normal" universe, just which direction would each one be? In reality, we answer this question arbitrarily, by picking a direction as the first dimension, picking another direction 90 degrees off from it as the second, and picking one of the two directions that are 90 degrees off from both as the third. Since no coordinate system is in any sense "privileged", it does not matter which directions we pick -- we still know that our space appears three dimensional because we run out of dimensions after arbitrarily selecting any three. But in the Mystaran cosmos, the third dimension is privileged, as it is the intersection of the "Normal" universe with the "Nightmare" universe. If we define dimensions in geometric terms as the old gold box rules seem to do, then that intersection is a straight line through space from either the "Normal" or the "Nightmare" point of view. How far is Mystara from that line? Is that distance constant, or does it change? And why is this line never mentioned as a location? The available material makes no mention of this line but instead says that the way to get from "Normal" to "Nightmare" or back is by plane shifting from one to the other via the Astral Plane. The Astral Plane presents similar problems, except that its intersection with the both the "Normal" and "Nightmare" universes is a plane that would split each space in two. Again, no suggestion of the location or existence of such a thing is ever given. And I am not sure what is meant by dimensions being "contiguous" or "non-contiguous". It is my understanding that all dimensions of space would be contiguous, as the way to get from any dimension to any other would be to make a 90 degree turn in the proper direction -- and that would apply to ANY number of directions. Unless I am missing some very important point, the system of dimensions in the old Immortals' set is mathematically incoherent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #291 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 13 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 292 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Outer Being History 966 - A primer] Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? R:[MYSTARA] - Chainmail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 18:17:02 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? At 09:54 PM 7/11/99 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >The Immortals are dead wrong, you see. There CAN be creatures which exist >in discontiguous dimensions ... they're just not a form of life which >contiguously-comprised creatures can fully conceive of*! Rather, they're >alien and abhorrent by the standards of BOTH Normals and Nightmares: >baffling/mind-wrenching in their geometry, incomprehensible/deranged in >their intellects, and unearthly/abnormal in their bodily composition. Just >as Normal and Nightmare beings each exist within the Prime Plane, but in >separate dimensional 'continua', so do the "Discontiguates" exist within >the same multiverse as Contiguous beings; yet geometrically-contiguous life >forms can perceive these weird entities only in nightmares, or if part of >their dimensional makeup happens to mimic that of Contiguous creatures. That's an interesting point of view. My personal viewpoint was (up until now) that they were actually multi-dimensional creatures- encompassing dimensions beyond the five that Immortals and lesser creatures know of- that is, that they exist beyond the Great Dimensional Barrier. Creatures like those would also seem monstrous and incomprehensible to Five Dimensional beings, not to mention being vastly more powerful. As I saw it, they were the "evil" counterparts of the Old Ones. But, your idea has some different merits to it. Perhaps the Old Ones are the 6+ dimensional creatures, whereas the Outer Beings are, as you say, discontiguous dimensional creatures. Which means that just maybe, some of those Outer Beings might be on a par with the Old Ones themselves... >The so-called "Outer Beings" -- the big, powerful ones worshipped by >Carnifex and other cultists -- are the Discontiguates' equivalent of >Immortals. They are five-dimensional beings, comparable to Immortals in >this respect ... but the series of dimensions they occupy aren't >consecutive. Instead of the 1st through 5th, the ruling OBs exist in the >1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and SIXTH dimensions! (Yes, they're impinging on "Old >One" turf.) They lack any presence in the 3rd dimension -- the one that >gives both Normal and Nightmare beings their 'volume' -- and so are >fundamentally alien to Normal beings, Nightmare beings, Immortals of either >continuum... and nippers, for that matter! I like it. I like it a lot! :) >Suppose the Old Ones didn't REALLY create the Vortex, just to corral the >Immortals in the five dimensions which make up these potential Old Ones' >playpen? Suppose they originally did it, so they could cut off the Outer >Beings' multiversal facets -- the 1st-, 2nd-, 4th-, and 5th-dimensional >parts of them -- from their SIXTH-dimensional facet ... the same component >that'd made them the Old Ones' near-equals? And suppose it's their having >DONE this, to sever the OBs' connection to such power, that created both >the Normal AND Nightmare continua, in the first place? That was sort of my theory as well, even before you discontiguate idea, but I think it works a bit better with your thoughts on the matter. >Still here? Have I given you all a headache, yet...? Got you seeing round >corners and knocking down walls with your head, like I've been with those >blasted IM booklets? Sorry, I'll stop typing this gibberish now! But do >let me know what you think of this 'too-weird-to-be-weird' idea, all >right...? :-) Wow. that is a lot to digest. BTW, Sharon, if you're interested in reading a bit more about dimensional theory (which I think applies really well to the dimensions as laid out by Frank Mentzer) there's a good book called "Hyperspace" that really talks a lot about it, and in fairly readily comprehensible terms. It's part of what I've been using for my own recent workup on the dimensional relations in Mystara. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:41:56 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >But in the Mystaran cosmos, the third dimension is >privileged, as it is the intersection of the "Normal" >universe with the "Nightmare" universe. Actually, the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th dimensions have defining properties in the IM-rules, too, over and above their being perpendicular to other dimensions. The 1st and 5th have the unique property that they can be perceived in dreams of Nightmare and Normal mortals, respectively. The 2nd and 4th are unique in that Teleportation magics -- again, of Nightmare beings and Normal ones, respectively -- can access such dimensions and use them to travel instantly between points within three-dimensional space. Neither of these things would be true, if "dimensions" had no larger significance within the oD&D multiverse than as arbitrary mathematical coordinates. Instead of picturing the dimensions as axis-lines on a coordinate map, imagine that each one that's added to a plane's or being's structure confers some new property upon that entire plane/being, OTHER than its shape/geometry. For instance, acquisition of a fifth-dimensional component is what turns a mortal into an Immortal, and the lack of a fourth-dimensional component is what prevents magic from working inside a trispace. You can't just rotate a plane or a creature so that it's facing another direction, and change which of its "dimensions" are which: its physical orientation will differ if you rotate it, yet it'll still be PRESENT on the same set of coordinate-axes as before, and each of those axes continues to imbue the being/plane with the same qualities. If you try to rotate something in a direction that doesn't exist for it -- for instance, if you try to spin a human so they'd face the 5th dimension -- you simply can't do it, because it's only in the three Normal dimensions that there's any substance to the human's body, for you to manipulate. Just as you can't grab a two-dimensional being by gripping the edges (there's no thickness to grip!), so you can't take hold of a three-dimensional being by its fifth-dimensional "edges", and move it "5th-wards". >If we define >dimensions in geometric terms as the old gold box rules >seem to do, then that intersection is a straight line >through space from either the "Normal" or the "Nightmare" >point of view. How far is Mystara from that line? Is >that distance constant, or does it change? And why is >this line never mentioned as a location? The available >material makes no mention of this line but instead >says that the way to get from "Normal" to "Nightmare" >or back is by plane shifting from one to the other via >the Astral Plane. That would apply if Normal space had three dimensions, Nightmare space had three, and they intersected only at one of them. But all FIVE dimensions are present, everywhere in the Prime; it's just that natives of the two continua can't detect each others'. Beings with the appropriate configurations can move up and down, side to side, back and forth, plus-or-minus 4thward, and/or plus-or-minus 5thward from any point in the Prime! Isn't saying that there's one line of intersection through which beings could cross between these two continua a bit like saying that ONLY from the Z-axis of an X-Y-Z graph can an X-Y vector have a Z-vector added to it? >And I am not sure what is meant by dimensions being >"contiguous" or "non-contiguous". It is my understanding >that all dimensions of space would be contiguous, as the >way to get from any dimension to any other would be to >make a 90 degree turn in the proper direction -- and that >would apply to ANY number of directions. Only for directions that exist to the one who's making the 90-degree turns. To the best of the Immortals' knowledge, there's a set sequence by which dimensions are acquired -- again, each with specific qualities that distinguish it from others, in addition to its directional orientation; we're talking fantasy physics, not IRL math -- but the Outer Beings' structure violates this pattern. Heck, Lovecraft's "alien geometry" doesn't hold up under close examination, either. But that's my whole purpose in adding the OBs to the IM-rules' cosmology: in THAT version of reality, HPL's concepts CAN work! ;-) >Unless I am missing some very important point, the system >of dimensions in the old Immortals' set is mathematically >incoherent. Not incoherent, just different from the mathematics we know. It's not intended to be a perfect replica of higher-dimensional theory -- which probably wouldn't make for a very interesting game -- but since it's not describing our IRL universe anyway, why SHOULD it be identical...? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 21:51:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >This continues a pattern in which no power -- Old One, Immortal, or mortal >-- can artificially create life forms that are of their own caliber. >Immortals create mortals all the time, yet they CAN'T produce new Immortals >in the same way, and the Old Ones' one attempt at creating more Old Ones >was a disaster! Presumably, Old Ones can create Immortals as easily as the >Immortals do, mortals -- that might be where Sinbad comes in -- but they >avoid this because such "ready-made" Immortals seldom have what it takes, >to become Old Ones themselves. It would seem that Darwinism applies even to the extent of the Immortals; survival of the fittest or "natural selection". The Old Ones must have understood this well since not just anyone can ascend to their ranks. Immortals may be ni-invulnerable, able to survive almost any form of physical or mental attack, but their knowledge (their source of potential) is as finite or infinite as the nature of the Immortal makes it out to be. The Immortal who accepts their Immortality more readily than the one that continues to see themselves as a 36th level mage, will likely have better focus and be progressive enough and have the potential to become a Hierarch. Interestingly, the question of the Primordeals comes in to the picture a bit when we consider that they are similar to the Hierarchs in that they embody a concept and are thus focused solely upon that. Examples of Primordeals are Ordana, Hel, Tempus Fugit, and Proteus to name a few. Because of their focus (their embodiment), they are incapable of progressing to the Full Hierarch level. So it can be said that Primordeals, although a vital part of the Immortal system, are stagnent "children" of the Old Ones; Immortals that learned to understand the nature of their Sphere to deeply that it rooted them in it. Whereas the Hierarchs were once up-and-coming Immortals who understood their Sphere, but didn't limit their growth to it alone. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:28:48 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail +AD4APg-..... (Think about ships...they're made of metal, but even +AD4APg-when they're still, +AD4APg-they don't sink...why?...because they've enough air in them+ACE-...The same for +AD4APg-submarines... +AD4APg-Skarm The Warlock +AD4- +AD4-Dear boy, i bet u're not so clever in engineering... +AD4-Ships don't sink cause of a principle that Archimede thought centuries ago. +AD4-What about a boat with a big hole...air doesn't run out from it...but water +AD4-comes in+ACE- +AD4- submarines are air tight so that water dosn't sink them but what makes them float and dive are ballast tanks that fill with water (to sink) and fill with air (to goto the surface). athough ships stay afloat because of water displacement simply by wieghing down aship to much will make it sink while yes its true that some larger ships have airtight compartments this is merely to slow down the sinking process. Stewart 3 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:46:06 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? In a message dated 1999-07-12 21:52:00 Eastern Daylight Time, bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca writes: > Interestingly, the question of the Primordeals comes in to the > picture a bit when we consider that they are similar to the Hierarchs in > that they embody a concept and are thus focused solely upon that. Examples > of Primordeals are Ordana, Hel, Tempus Fugit, and Proteus to name a few. > Because of their focus (their embodiment), they are incapable of progressing > to the Full Hierarch level. There is just one problem with that explanation: Hel is a Full Hierarch in the Sphere of Entropy. WotI has her as 36th level. The older rules do not help in this regard, as they name as Full Hierarchs such beings as "Father Time" and "Mother Earth". Of course, any Immortals who have been around for thousands or millions of years must by definition not be very ambitious, as they would otherwise have become Old Ones or perished in the attempt long ago -- at the very least, they should have reached maximum Immortal level. Failure to do even that suggests that they have little in common with ex-mortal Immortals. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:46:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? In a message dated 1999-07-12 21:42:49 Eastern Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Actually, the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th dimensions have defining properties in > the IM-rules, too, over and above their being perpendicular to other > dimensions. The 1st and 5th have the unique property that they can be > perceived in dreams of Nightmare and Normal mortals, respectively. The 2nd > and 4th are unique in that Teleportation magics -- again, of Nightmare > beings and Normal ones, respectively -- can access such dimensions and use > them to travel instantly between points within three-dimensional space. > Neither of these things would be true, if "dimensions" had no larger > significance within the oD&D multiverse than as arbitrary mathematical > coordinates. But those gold box rules do try to treat these dimensions as corresponding to dimensions of space -- remember those descriptions of how mortals and their spells appear "flat" on the Astral Plane? The problem is that my grasp of mathematics is good enough that I readily recognize such references as leading to incoherence. To me, the entire account of "higher dimensions" in those rules would make a lot more sense if the clearly fallacious geometric references were removed. Your explanations above actually make more sense -- that they are the component structures of the universe that enable different sorts of magic to work, not literal directions in space. > Instead of picturing the dimensions as axis-lines on a coordinate map, > imagine that each one that's added to a plane's or being's structure > confers some new property upon that entire plane/being, OTHER than its > shape/geometry. For instance, acquisition of a fifth-dimensional component > is what turns a mortal into an Immortal, and the lack of a > fourth-dimensional component is what prevents magic from working inside a > trispace. > > You can't just rotate a plane or a creature so that it's facing another > direction, and change which of its "dimensions" are which: its physical > orientation will differ if you rotate it, yet it'll still be PRESENT on the > same set of coordinate-axes as before, and each of those axes continues to > imbue the being/plane with the same qualities. If you try to rotate > something in a direction that doesn't exist for it -- for instance, if you > try to spin a human so they'd face the 5th dimension -- you simply can't do > it, because it's only in the three Normal dimensions that there's any > substance to the human's body, for you to manipulate. Just as you can't > grab a two-dimensional being by gripping the edges (there's no thickness to > grip!), so you can't take hold of a three-dimensional being by its > fifth-dimensional "edges", and move it "5th-wards". And again you show that the geometric interpretation that is actually given in the gold box rules makes no sense. The five dimensions must be something that is inherent in the structures of "Normal" and "Nightmare" beings in order for them to be immune to each other's magic, even though they would presumably encounter each other as fully three dimensional beings when they start throwing spells at each other. And any encounter between humans and diaboli outside of each other's dreams would indeed require that one be in some sense "rotated" into the dimensional perspective of the other, while somehow preserving their "other dimensional" nature. (I would assume that this process of rotation would involve the Immortal equivalent of a spatula, which does a very neat job of rotating nearly two dimensional pancakes through that dreaded third dimension.) > That would apply if Normal space had three dimensions, Nightmare space had > three, and they intersected only at one of them. But all FIVE dimensions > are present, everywhere in the Prime; it's just that natives of the two > continua can't detect each others'. Beings with the appropriate > configurations can move up and down, side to side, back and forth, > plus-or-minus 4thward, and/or plus-or-minus 5thward from any point in the > Prime! Isn't saying that there's one line of intersection through which > beings could cross between these two continua a bit like saying that ONLY > from the Z-axis of an X-Y-Z graph can an X-Y vector have a Z-vector added > to it? Sorry, I was being a bit imprecise. Those lines and planes are the intersections of what "Normal", "Astral", and "Nightmare" beings would perceive of the apparent trispaces in which each type of creature moves around, again based on a literal geometric interpretation of the dimensions. I think we would all prefer an interpretation that puts anything not in the same continuum outside of mundane vision. > Only for directions that exist to the one who's making the 90-degree turns. > To the best of the Immortals' knowledge, there's a set sequence by which > dimensions are acquired -- again, each with specific qualities that > distinguish it from others, in addition to its directional orientation; > we're talking fantasy physics, not IRL math -- but the Outer Beings' > structure violates this pattern. Then the idea of the Outer Beings being discontiguous would seem to be mere Immortal prejudice, right? It would seem that the Immortals view the Outer Beings the way "Normals" view "Nightmare" creatures. > Heck, Lovecraft's "alien geometry" doesn't hold up under close examination, > either. But that's my whole purpose in adding the OBs to the IM-rules' > cosmology: in THAT version of reality, HPL's concepts CAN work! ;-) I think I will have to read more of Lovecraft's stories -- unfortunately, most of my information in that regard is purely second hand. Which of his stories explain that "alien geometry" concept? Clearly that is where I should start. > >Unless I am missing some very important point, the system > >of dimensions in the old Immortals' set is mathematically > >incoherent. > > Not incoherent, just different from the mathematics we know. It's not > intended to be a perfect replica of higher-dimensional theory -- which > probably wouldn't make for a very interesting game -- but since it's not > describing our IRL universe anyway, why SHOULD it be identical...? Okay, then maybe we should try to define just what those dimensions are, anyway, and what it is about them that makes them "contiguous" in numerical order but not in any other order. I suspect that the proper way to define them would not be in terms of geometry (which leads to the absurdities that I outlined) but in terms of some sort of ancient or medieval mysticism. Just as the old alchemical concept of the four elements turns out to be an accurate description of the structure of the Inner Planes of any D&D/AD&D universe, perhaps there is some other concept we can use to explain those "dimensions". Clearly, n-dimensional geometry is NOT the way to go. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology All these discussions are cool! Just a note that I'm sending along part of my article on insanity. SOme parts of it I think are relevant to our discussions here, especially those elements dealing with the relationship between the Outer Beings and the Old Ones. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:47:11 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology I just noticed something!! In the gold box DM's guide, there is mention of this fact: "If an object exists in only a few of the five dimensions, the first dimension by which it is measured - eben if this is actually the second or third dimension - is viewed by creatures who perceive dimensions from the same perspective as the object's length. Dimensions that cannot be perceived do not appear to exist to the character's perceptions." - -DM's guide to the Immortals p.3 So therefore A human sees a human as 3 dimensional, and a diabolus sees a diabolus as 3 dimensional. BUT - since a human exists in 1-2-3 and diaboli cannot perceive 1, and cannot see 2, does a human look only 1 dimensional? And vice versa? This statement here contradicts the basis of D&D cosmology. Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Outer Being History 966 - A primer] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Outer Being History 966 - A primer Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:02:16 -0400 All of this revived speculation on the Outer Beings is great! Here is a reposting of part of my article on insanity - the section containing my own perspective on the historical relationship between the Old Ones and the Outer Beings: Who Are the Outer Beings?: Those who have become aware of the Outer Beings have always been given to pondering their nature. These entities are extremely powerful - mightier even than the Immortals on an individual basis, and their origins are obscure to all but the oldest of Immortals. It is thought that the Outer Beings themselves do not remember their own origins. Despite their vast reserves of strength, the Outer Beings have been constrained for untold millennia by arcane powers, so that they would not be able to interfere in the world's affairs. Sages, wizards, and their like who know of the Outer Beings, know that they are horrible, both in their physical appearance and nature, but also in terms of what they would do if they were ever released into the world once more. Beyond this, and the theorized connection between certain forms of insanity and their influence, little is known about these beings. The truth about the Outer Beings is something known only to the Old Ones, current and former Hierarch Immortals, and, of course, the DM. Untold aeons ago, the Outer Beings co-existed with the Old Ones; indeed, they were in many ways "cousins" to these enigmatic beings, equal in power. They co-operated in the shaping of many worlds, and both Outer Being and Old One tended their charges in their own ways. Even in the beginning, the Outer Beings' worlds were chaotic and unstable, producing nothing but strife in those regions they controlled. Though they shared many of the powers held by the Old Ones, the Outer Beings lacked the discipline and the sense of order necessary to wield them responsibly. Thus, their creations rarely lasted long, and even when they did, they were fundamentally flawed. Always they coveted the beautiful worlds tended by the Old Ones, above all the planet known as Mystara (and the rest of the Prime Plane for that matter), for it, above all other worlds, lay at the nexus point of powerful energies, imbuing it with its own potent source of magic. Eventually, the Outer Beings staged an attack against the Old Ones, assaulting them personally, and sending their legions of servitors to all the worlds they could find, so that they could be brought under control. This great battle lasted millennia, and in the process whole galaxies were destroyed by the titanic energies that were released. Eventually, some of the less abhorrent Outer Beings switched sides, and aided the Old Ones in securing a final victory against their former companions. In the aftermath, the Outer Beings were stripped of many of their powers, and the most powerful ones were sealed away into their own pocket dimensions, from which they could not escape. Lesser Outer Beings were also locked away, but they were not separated from each other, as they were deemed to be less dangerous. Many of their servitor races were also locked away, or destroyed outright, for the abominations that they were. The Old Ones then spent the next several millennia stabilizing the multiverse, after which they elected to remove themselves from the planes, so that such mighty powers could not be unleashed freely again. Before doing so, however, they created a new breed of caretakers for the multiverse - the Immortals. Shortly before withdrawing from the multiverse, the Old Ones told the first Hierarch Immortals about the threat posed by the Outer Beings, and bid them keep that sacred knowledge to themselves. Only upon reaching the exalted rank of Hierarch in a Sphere of Immortality, would the knowledge be conveyed, as well as the stricture that it must not be shared with anyone. No records exist of any Immortal breaking this sacred trust; even former Hierarchs, who retain the knowledge even after their fall from grace, do not violate this rule. Now, the Old Ones simply watch the affairs of the multiverse, their aims unknown. In the meantime, sentient life developed on many worlds, some of which managed to attain Immortality in its own right. The Outer Beings noticed this and, eager to rebuild their armies of servitors, immediately sought means of weakening the barriers imprisoning them, and corrupting the minds of those who would pry too deeply into the sealed regions of the planes. Today, the Outer Beings still plot to free themselves from their prisons, eager to wreak revenge on those who deprived them of what they see as their destiny. Some inhabitants of Mystara have come into contact with them, and while some have been won over by their dark promises of easy power, most who deal with them are driven mad by their contact with such horrible beings, and their utterly alien thoughts - eventually. The Outer Beings and Insanity: Although Mystara is considered by and large to be a world of epic fantasy, a realm of bold warriors and cunning sorcerers, a place of magic and wonder; it also harbours dark secrets. The threat posed by the Outer Beings since their imprisonment so long ago by the Old Ones, while indirect, is very real. Some of their lesser servitor races are known to inhabit certain less-frequented regions of the planet, and small portions of the indigenous races of Mystara have sworn allegiance to these utterly evil entities. Knowledge of the Outer Beings and their foul machinations has always existed among the various peoples of Mystara, in one form or another, though in more recent times that knowledge has begun to spread. Rumoured sightings of strange creatures are also on the rise, though many still dismiss these as products of overactive imaginations, or at worst sightings of humanoids mistakenly identified as something else. Making matters all the more suspicious is the appearance of the Day of Dread. On that day, the absence of magic is thought by some to temporarily weaken the seals on the Outer Beings' prisons, even though those were not fashioned with mortal magic. On those days, mental illnesses are believed to worsen overall, and the prevalence of nightmares increases. - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? KaviyD wrote: >Then the idea of the Outer Beings being discontiguous would seem to be >mere Immortal prejudice, right? It would seem that the Immortals view the >Outer Beings the way "Normals" view "Nightmare" creatures. More than likely. Of course, it's up to the DM to decide just who among the Immortals knows about the Outer Beings. The way I worked it out, only Hierarchs (or former Hierarchs) are trusted with the knowledge of their existence. The threat of some lower-level Immortal (or worse yet, one who has just attained Immortality) falling under the sway of the OBs, because they looked too deeply where they shouldn't have, is too frightening to contemplate. Of course, knowledge in a diluted form has somehow reached mortals.... ;-) >I think I will have to read more of Lovecraft's stories -- unfortunately, >most of my information in that regard is purely second hand. Which of his stories explain that "alien geometry" concept? Clearly that is where I should start. "The Call of Cthulhu" is a good story to start with. In it, the characters go to the isle of R'lyeh, where its odd geometry is described (ie: doorways that look straight and crooked at the same time). Another story that might help in this regard is...darnit...can't remember the title, maybe someone can help me out here? It's that one where the mad scientist builds a device that allows the user to see the creatures that coexist with us in the same times and spaces, but which we normally can't see. I'll look through my collection tonight. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:47:30 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology >I just noticed something!! > >In the gold box DM's guide, there is mention of this fact: > >"If an object exists in only a few of the five dimensions, the first >dimension by which it is measured - eben if this is actually the second or >third dimension - is viewed by creatures who perceive dimensions from the >same perspective as the object's length. Dimensions that cannot be >perceived do not appear to exist to the character's perceptions." >-DM's guide to the Immortals p.3 > >So therefore A human sees a human as 3 dimensional, and a diabolus sees a >diabolus as 3 dimensional. > >BUT - since a human exists in 1-2-3 and diaboli cannot perceive 1, and >cannot see 2, does a human look only 1 dimensional? And vice versa? > >This statement here contradicts the basis of D&D cosmology. > > >Ethan A one-dimensional object -- plane, creature, whatever -- can't be seen, touched, or otherwise interacted with by a three-dimensional one. It took the Immortals a long time, merely to discover that there WERE monospacial planes and life forms; mortals aren't equipped to do even that much. So, even if the 3rd dimensions of humans and diaboli ARE technically extant to each other, they just pass right through one another without noticing. Kinda creepy, when you think about it: there might well be a diabolus passing through your body right now, and neither you nor he would be aware of it.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:14:54 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >Of course, any Immortals who have been around for thousands or millions of >years must by definition not be very ambitious, as they would otherwise have >become Old Ones or perished in the attempt long ago -- at the very least, >they should have reached maximum Immortal level. Failure to do even that >suggests that they have little in common with ex-mortal Immortals. > Except that many of the ancient Immortals WERE previously mortal -- Ka and Protius are two examples -- yet they haven't chosen to pursue a Full Hierarch's position, for reasons of their own. I suspect that most Primordeals who aren't FHs have made strong personal commitments to the worlds they are affecting -- be it for good or for evil -- and simply spend too many PPs in the pursuit of those goals (Ka saves entire species, Protius mucks with the oceans, Thanatos conspires on a massive scale, etc) to attain 36th level in the first place or to keep that position for long, once they've got it. By Old Ones' standards, they must seem like "stillborn" progeny, who are squandering their hard-earned Immortality on minutia. OTOH, they probably lead more fulfilling lives, being satisfied with their current levels of power, than Immortals who single-mindedly pursue advancement. While becoming an Immortal, and eventually an Old One, might SEEM like the ultimate objective of oD&D "evolution", there's no reason every being would - -- or should! -- make that his or her goal in life. Lots of organisms on Earth haven't evolved into significantly different forms in millions of years (even billions, if you count bacteria), yet they're still around and aren't left at any real disadvantage, for having found a stable "niche" to fill. Immortals like Ka or Protius have done this, choosing roles within the cosmos with which they are quite satisfied, as have millions of mortals who never sought Immortality because they're happy being regular folks. Would you rather be an Old One or a Karimari...? Which one's life is more content, do you think...? :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:48:21 +0200 From: "renadia" Subject: R:[MYSTARA] - Chainmail About the possibility of swimming with a chian-mail I have read that in the Feudal Japan there is a specificy +ACI-Martial Art+ACI- , named +ACI-suiei+ACI- for the swimming with armour. Renato *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #292 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 14 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 293 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? [MYSTARA] - A new way to illustrate mystara... [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN} The Admin Was Away Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 06:42:21 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? At 00:46 13 07 99 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > >Of course, any Immortals who have been around for thousands or millions of >years must by definition not be very ambitious, as they would otherwise have >become Old Ones or perished in the attempt long ago -- at the very least, >they should have reached maximum Immortal level. Failure to do even that >suggests that they have little in common with ex-mortal Immortals. Unlike mortals immortals can and do go around spending their permanent power points - so a failure to reach the maximum level could merely suggest that the immortal is merely pretty active. As to how ambitious the Immortals who aren't Old Ones are, I believed that Old Ones wee basically not really all that well known even to the Immortals. As opposed to the mortal-Immortal relationship where mortals know a fair bit about their Immortals the Old Ones are unknown. And any rate, perhaps the processes for becoming an Old One are unimaginably long winded - I mean the candidates are immortal after all, they've got enough time. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:04:54 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >But those gold box rules do try to treat these dimensions as corresponding >to dimensions of space -- remember those descriptions of how mortals >and their spells appear "flat" on the Astral Plane? The problem is that my >grasp of mathematics is good enough that I readily recognize such references >as leading to incoherence. To me, the entire account of "higher dimensions" >in those rules would make a lot more sense if the clearly fallacious >geometric references were removed. Your explanations above actually >make more sense -- that they are the component structures of the universe >that enable different sorts of magic to work, not literal directions in space. Perhaps the number of dimensions a being exhibits in space is merely a visible indicator of how many of the 5 'component structures' they're made of. It's just a "symptom" of having a certain number of these structures, such that a creature is PERCEIVED as being solid, flat, or linear by beings who share at least one of the same components as it. The Immortals only call these components "dimensions" because that's how they recognize them - -- sort of like how oranges are named after their color -- but the significance of each component is greater than just the shape it confers. This would explain why Normals or Nightmares on the Astral Plane, though they might LOOK two-dimensional, can bend their limbs and otherwise move in three dimensions, rather than being "stuck" in a particular (flat) plane of movement. The other hypothetical possibility is that there may actually BE a "universal coordinate map", overlaying the whole of the Prime and other planes ... mortals just aren't aware of it. These coordinates would be absolute, and correspond exactly to the five dimensional components. If so, there might be five different classes of "one-dimensional" beings -- one for each direction -- and four different classes of contiguous two-dimensional ones, living in Outer Planar monospaces and bispaces. As with Normals and Nightmares, none of these would be aware of each others' existence. >And again you show that the geometric interpretation that is actually given >in the gold box rules makes no sense. The five dimensions must be >something that is inherent in the structures of "Normal" and "Nightmare" >beings in order for them to be immune to each other's magic, even >though they would presumably encounter each other as fully three >dimensional beings when they start throwing spells at each other. And >any encounter between humans and diaboli outside of each other's >dreams would indeed require that one be in some sense "rotated" into >the dimensional perspective of the other, while somehow preserving their >"other dimensional" nature. (I would assume that this process of rotation >would involve the Immortal equivalent of a spatula, which does a very >neat job of rotating nearly two dimensional pancakes through that dreaded >third dimension.) That IS a problem! One could argue that rotating a Normal spellcaster into Nightmare, or vice versa, has no effect on the MAGIC which is cast by that spellcaster -- mortal magic seems to be four-dimensional, as trispaces lack it -- such that the spell doesn't adjust itself to the caster's orientation and can't affect the caster's environs. A diabolus in Normal space would still be casting magic into the 3rd-5th dimension, and a human in Nightmare space is still casting into the 1st-3rd. However, the caster's own body should not be immune. Perhaps a spellcaster "translated" into the other continuum should be subject to local spell-effects, after all, but finds it necessary to re-learn the use of magic, before he or she can affect indigenous matter and creatures. The brain collector from X2 (the first module to include this monster) and the one encountered by Haldemar were proficient in Normal magic, which implies that's something any "translated" being can acquire over time. Indeed, that might be why the Nel-Thaggu journey to Normal space and eat brains -- preferably mages' brains -- in the first place! On the other hand, the original IM rules on Nightmare creatures seem designed to prevent Nightmares and Normals from visiting one anothers' continua: they tend to become insane when forced, and simply CAN'T be "translated" voluntarily! The writers might have realized the logic breaks down, here, and concocted this prohibition to skirt the issue of cross-continuum travel. Most often, Normal and Nightmare beings from the boxed set would encounter one another on the Astral Plane. There, it'd make perfect sense for each type's magic to be impotent against their opposites: despite being visible to one another, within the context of Astrality, they haven't been "translated" and remain in separate frames of reference. >Sorry, I was being a bit imprecise. Those lines and planes are the >intersections of what "Normal", "Astral", and "Nightmare" beings would >perceive of the apparent trispaces in which each type of creature moves >around, again based on a literal geometric interpretation of the dimensions. >I think we would all prefer an interpretation that puts anything not in the >same continuum outside of mundane vision. Maybe what's absent is the fact that mortals DO exist in four dimensions, although they're only tangible and capable of perception in three. This gets back to the chain of reasoning where objects that exhibit X dimensions can only be observed if they're occupying X+1 dimensions. (Kind of a shaky argument, given that you don't necessarily have to be observed in order to exist ... but it's evidently valid for the oD&D cosmos, so let's take it at face value.) Immortals perceive four dimensions and must therefore exist in five; mortals perceive three and must exist in four. This "blind" additional dimension is evidently the one which each grade of being derives its level of magic: mortal spells fail in a trispace, and Immortal magic fails in a tetraspace. So, by that argument, Normals and Nightmares actually overlap the others' continua in TWO dimensions, not one: Normals are intangibly present in the 4th, and Nightmares are intangibly present in the 2nd. We need to see how FOUR-dimensional frames of reference intersect, to find where there'd be potential points of contact between the two. Cross two perpendicular one-dimensonal continua, and their intersection is a point. If we cross two two-dimensional planar continua, and the intersection is a line. Cross two three-dimensional continua, and they intersect in a flat plane ... which, I assume, is the location you said should've been mentioned in the books. But if we cross two FOUR-dimensional frames of reference -- the range of axes encompassed by the bodies of each continuum's inhabitants, PLUS their magic! -- then the zone of intersection between them is a three-dimensional region ... a region which, by virtue of its "double magic", would become a focal point for the ascension of Immortals (whose magic works in both frames of reference) from both Normal and Nightmare continua. It won't encompass the whole of the Prime -- there'll be a great deal of Normal space which does NOT lie within the Nightmare beings' 4th and 5th dimensional frame of reference, and much of Nightmare space will be outside Normals' 1st and 2nd -- but that three-dimensional region where they DO overlap will be reachable by each others' magics, and therefore at least partially accessible (via Wishes) to both. Mystara presumably lies within that portion of the Prime where the continua can contact each other; as for what's on the Nightmares' side, we don't know what's there ... except that it seems to be full of diaboli, Nel-Thaggu, and malferas. ;-) >Then the idea of the Outer Beings being discontiguous would seem to be >mere Immortal prejudice, right? It would seem that the Immortals view the >Outer Beings the way "Normals" view "Nightmare" creatures. It'd fit, wouldn't it...? "As above, so below" seems to be a recurrent theme of IM cosmology. Giving the Immortals their own 'alien' bunch to get the heebie-jeebies from seemed like the logical thing to do, to carry on the "stepladder" relationship of mortal to Immortal, Immortal to Old One. This doesn't mean the Outer Beings and Immortals could become best buds, if they'd just sit back and talk out their differences; I'm not trying to "humanize" the OBs, by any means! Discontiguates' psyches and motivations are TOTALLY foreign to Contiguous beings', leaving NO potential common ground at all, unlike the Normals and Nightmares who share similar thought-processes and emotions despite their physical and ethical differences. But my interpretation of OBs DOES open up the possibility that Outer Beings' alleged "evil" vastly overstates the case. While prejudice on the Immortals' part and its Discontiguous equivalent on the OBs' certainly contribute to their enmity, it's total, flabbergasted incomprehension of each other which poses the REAL obstacle to Outer Beings' and Immortals' coexistence. How can you possibly relate to someone whose thoughts, structure, emotions, objectives, and underlying concept of reality are totally contradictory and/or foreign to your own...? Lovecraft's bizarre oogey-boogeys weren't something he depicted as "evil" ... just soooo alien and outside mere humans' understanding, for any point of understanding to exist, between them. HPL loathed how the pulp-writers of his day attributed human motivations and feelings to extraterrestrials or monsters, and he wrote with the express purpose of making his aliens truly ALIEN to what our shallow, humanocentric conceits say is important. Later authors treated the Great Old Ones as truly evil and malicious -- August Derleth is the prime offender here, so watch out for their transition from otherworldly to villainous, in his pastiches! -- but the ones in Lovecraft's own works go beyond such petty, human attributes as hate, anger, or cruelty: they'll kill you because you're a puny organic life form that happens to have infested their planet while they were off sleeping, NOT because they have anything against you. >I think I will have to read more of Lovecraft's stories -- unfortunately, >most of >my information in that regard is purely second hand. Which of his stories >explain that "alien geometry" concept? Clearly that is where I should start. Explaining it wouldn't make it alien enough, for Lovecraft's tastes! He figured if he -- a mere human, who was writing for other mere humans -- could explain HOW his own monsters did things, they wouldn't be nearly as scary as if their powers and attributes remained a mystery. (He was right too.) You don't read Lovecraft to have the monsters explained at the end of the story; you read Lovecraft for the phenomenal atmosphere his prose and imagery create, and for the slowly-building suspense, as his protagonists learn reality's not what they'd believed it to be. The HPL story that's got the most 'alien geometry' is "Dreams In The Witch House", although the titular witch's motives are atypically-human for a Lovecraft creation. The story that's the best example of how 'otherworldly' his aliens could get, is "The Colour Out Of Space", widely regarded as the finest work of his career. Of his contemporaries' tales, F.B. Long's "The Hounds of Tindalos" has a geometric premise and reads a LOT like the IM-rules, in places... although the corny/implausible circumstances of its closing paragraph will make you snicker, not shudder*. [* - It's one of those instances where the protagonist's "death rattle" is cheesily transcribed onto paper, in his handwritten, deathbed warning to others. ;-)] I hope you'll enjoy the stories. Just keep in mind that they were written in the 1920s and '30s, at a time when Einstein had recently overturned numerous long-established laws of physics, and ANY maxims as to how the universe worked seemed vulnerable! Lovecraft read extensively in several fields of science, and while he didn't always grasp the concepts entirely, he comes close enough in his stories to be convincing. >Okay, then maybe we should try to define just what those dimensions >are, anyway, and what it is about them that makes them "contiguous" >in numerical order but not in any other order. I suspect that the proper >way to define them would not be in terms of geometry (which leads to >the absurdities that I outlined) but in terms of some sort of ancient or >medieval mysticism. Just as the old alchemical concept of the four >elements turns out to be an accurate description of the structure of >the Inner Planes of any D&D/AD&D universe, perhaps there is some >other concept we can use to explain those "dimensions". Clearly, >n-dimensional geometry is NOT the way to go. That might be a good idea. If we come up for a notation for each 'structural component', that's distinct from the word "dimension" -- even if it's something as simple as "Component A", "Component B", etc -- we can set aside the term "dimension" to refer solely to the perceived configurations of creatures and planes. Normals can be described as three-dimensional beings (ABC + D for magic), as can Nightmares (EDC + B for magic), with the components listed alphabetically for Normals and reversed-alphabetically for Nightmares. On the Astral Plane they'd both be referred to as two-dimensional beings, because that's what they look and function like, but each would retain the same sequence of structural components. Their respective Immortals would be four-dimensional (ABCD + E) beings, and four-dimensional (EDCB + A) beings. Discontiguates could have a gap (AB DE = X'yeth leech) in their sequence, in this sort of shorthand. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:07:11 -0400 From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? He had an accident a while back that makes it difficult to type. But he has returned periodically. Buck Satan wrote: > I was wondering if anyone knew whatever happened to Mr. Alex Benson, the > author of Operation Hydra. He left the Thyatian Navy right before all the > good action was about to commence! > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 00:21:19 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - A new way to illustrate mystara... Hello everybody. I recently found a nice freeware(2.2meg) called terragen (ie terra generator) which purpose is to help people visualize fantasy worlds.In short it generates 3D landscape (in BMP format) based on topographic maps wich you can generate randomly then change or affect with erosion so that it remained realistic.The results are spectaculars I think.I know that what makes rpg rich and colorful is that everyone imagine a place described by his beloved/hated DM in his own unique way thus creating numerous interpretations of what a location could look.But it would surely be fun to confront our views.The freeware is available at http://www.planetside.co.uk/ My intelligence is not 18 and i figured out how it worked in less than a day (and i am sure that every day rhereafter will bring its discoveries).So don't be afraid.It would work best on powerful cpu but the results were good and fast achieved with my K6 300. I hope I would have feedback concerning this freeware.It would be cool to have a mystaran galery of landscape pictures.I have made the few picts i made today available so that you can see what it is like. http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/terragen.htm Be patient the picts are all there (6 picts) and the largest is 95k). Enjoy Thibault. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:05:37 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN} The Admin Was Away Mystarans and Spacefarers, Just for the record, I was unable to access the internet since Sunday, and it is likely that any e-mail sent to me, whether privately or through the list never reached me. So, on the off chance anyone tried, you'll have to do so again. I was just wiping some stuff clean on my system, preparing for the transition from a NT4 system to a 98/2000 dual-boot, and since 98 mostly sucks, it took a while. _But_, I can now play Descent 3 and Alien vs. Predator in all their 3D glory... Leroy Van Camp III *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:14:55 -0400 From: Andrew Toth Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? At 02:14 PM 7/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>Of course, any Immortals who have been around for thousands or millions of >>years must by definition not be very ambitious, as they would otherwise have >>become Old Ones or perished in the attempt long ago -- at the very least, >>they should have reached maximum Immortal level. Failure to do even that >>suggests that they have little in common with ex-mortal Immortals. >> Maybe, just maybe they are Old Ones, who are 'slumming' in Immortal guise. Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- |/ "Ours is not to reason why, but to blow this joint before we die" -Ratrap, BeastWars *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:41:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >>Primordeals are Ordana, Hel, Tempus Fugit, and Proteus to name a few. >>Because of their focus (their embodiment), they are incapable of >>progressing to the Full Hierarch level. > >There is just one problem with that explanation: Hel is a Full Hierarch in >the Sphere of Entropy. WotI has her as 36th level. The older rules do not >help in this regard, as they name as Full Hierarchs such beings as "Father >Time" and "Mother Earth". My apologies. Normally I'll mention my disclaimer as a pre-AD&D Mystara gamer before making comments. I've never agreed with the addition of AD&D "language" in to Mystara, feeling it took away from the nature of that gaming system. Basically, my belief in the timeline diverges upon WotI. A WotI does exist IMC, but it is quite unlike the one printed by T$R. So with that said, we are technically both right, since Hel isn't a Full Hierarch before the AD&D/WotI took effect (at least IMC), while through the various transitions made in WotI she has attained that position of power. Additionally, IMC, it is believed that should someone attain the position of Full Hierarch, they loose all trace of their original identity to become the complete embodiment of their Sphere, taking up such names as Chronos (Father Time), Nix/Nicks/Old Nick, Terra (Mother Earth), Numina, etc...which are not only traditional, but a "part of the package" as it were in reaching that level. It is also believed that the further you ascending in the ranks of Immortals, the less of your humanity (or whatever your races nature is) you retain due to the fact that your essence, motivations, responsibilities, etc...are gradually becoming more of a "true immortal" - more of a concept, or intangable meaning such as the epitome of Time, Thought, Matter, Energy and Entropy. Again, sorry for the confusion. Brad - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:55:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology >So therefore A human sees a human as 3 dimensional, and a diabolus sees a >diabolus as 3 dimensional. > >BUT - since a human exists in 1-2-3 and diaboli cannot perceive 1, and >cannot see 2, does a human look only 1 dimensional? And vice versa? I believe that's correct. What appears the norm for us humans, would seem alien or mind-boggling to the diaboli, and vice versa. Bare in mind that perception is defined by the properties of the dimension(s) perceived (hieght-1, width-2, depth-3, etc...) So the diaboli would perceive the human in the 3rd dimension - depth or volume - which may be more revealing to them than us humans trying to perceive just the 3rd without 1st and 2nd. It's kind of hard to really interpret what the world looks like through their eyes, afterall. I suspect that perception should include all 5 (sometimes 6) of our senses, so that if humans can only perceive the 3rd which is shared with the diaboli, than the human could physically feel the presence of something, but could not mentally identify it's shape. Speaking of the 5 (or 6) senses, it would be interesting to see if there was a reasonable matching sense for each dimension. Something to consider, hehe ;) Brad - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:54:27 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Outer Being Cosmology In a message dated 1999-07-13 11:47:48 Eastern Daylight Time, eand@WPI.EDU writes: > BUT - since a human exists in 1-2-3 and diaboli cannot perceive 1, and > cannot see 2, does a human look only 1 dimensional? And vice versa? > > This statement here contradicts the basis of D&D cosmology. Certainly it would seem that humans and diaboli should see each other as one dimensional, which would basically make them invisible to each other. It would certainly explain why they would be immune to each other's magic, but it would also preclude any other sort of interaction. I can only assume that any magic that brings humans and diaboli into contact would rotate one or the other so that they can fully perceive each other, but that this magic would somehow leave them immune to each other's spells. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:54:26 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? In a message dated 1999-07-13 22:07:49 Eastern Daylight Time, beyowulf@pipeline.com writes: > Maybe, just maybe they are Old Ones, who are 'slumming' in Immortal guise. Could be. In face, any Immortal whose mortal history is unclear could be an Old One in disguise -- as, for that matter, could one whose mortal history is completely known. Presumably, just as Immortals have the ability to assume mortal identities, Old Ones can assume the forms of any lesser beings and be undetectable as anything other than what they purport to be. Only the dimensional peculiarities of Outer Beings would prevent them from pulling the same trick. That last comment, if true, would suggest a limitation on the mortal identity forms of Immortals. Presumably, an Immortal would have to have access to all of the dimensions of the form that he is assuming, so it would be impossible for an Immortal of human origin to create a convincing diabolus identity or vice versa. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:41:33 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade >Je viens de penser à quelque chose qui serait pas mal.Je pourrai créer des zones >reactives sur mes cartes afin de renvoyer aux descriptions ou a des articles >concernant la zone en question... >Ainsi Ciudad real renverait à la correspondance que tu as publié. >comments welcome (heu les commentaires sont les bienvenus...) Salut, désolé de n'avoir pas pu répondre plus tôt mais j'étais à l'extérieur pour des vacances on ne peut plus nécessaires. J'avoue que j'ai déjà eu une telle idée, mais je ne sais pas du tout comment faire pour intégrer des zones réactives sur des images online. Ce que j'aurais voulu faire aurait été de scanner une carte de Mystara et de renvoyer aux différents projets, sites web et articles qui touchent aux différents continents. Quant à l'idée de faire correspondre une intervention de Mr Dragovic avec une ville ça pourrait être une bonne idée surtout si l'on ajoute l'itinéraire au fur et à mesure. Néanmoins, j'hésite actuellement à continuer de traduire la correspondance de ce dernier pour pouvoir me concentrer plus à fond sur la description des pays. Peut-être que l'utilisation d'une carte pourrait le mettre plus en valeur... Autre carte interactive intéressante: cliquer sur une ville nous donne ses statistiques commerciales. Je finis les descriptions de Bulzan et Antasyn que j'ai entamées et on pourra en discuter plus à fond. Christian PS: as-tu essayer de faire des cartes avec ma technique? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:55:27 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Christian Constantin wrote: > Je finis les descriptions de Bulzan et Antasyn que j'ai entamées et on > pourra en discuter plus à fond. > Christian > PS: as-tu essayer de faire des cartes avec ma technique? Je parle un peu de francais, translate dans anglais s'il vous plait :) Ethan - I'm not even sure what I said made sense! - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:54:38 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Sorry, the last message was supposed to be a personal reply, I haven't seen that it had been first posted to the MML. Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 18:57:02 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? > This discussion recalls the major problem that I have > always had with the gold box Immortals' Rules -- namely, > just which dimensions are the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd? Well, the first one has to be the time! An example: We live in a four-dimensional world. So we can define WHERE a point is by three dimensions and WHEN he is by the forth dimension. A creature in a plane would define a point in space by two dimensions and in time by one. Likewise a being in a straight line would use one space and one time dimension. We could even theorize about a one-dimensional point where only time exists. So the logic demands that TIME has to be the first dimension (and not the forth as it is usually called). Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 14:25:47 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >Well, the first one has to be the time! > >An example: We live in a four-dimensional world. >So we can define WHERE a point is by three dimensions >and WHEN he is by the forth dimension. A creature in a >plane would define a point in space by two dimensions and >in time by one. Likewise a being in a straight line would use >one space and one time dimension. We could even theorize >about a one-dimensional point where only time exists. > >So the logic demands that TIME has to be the first dimension >(and not the forth as it is usually called). Sorry, Jamuga, but that's not how the IM rules lay things out. H.G. Wells might've called time the 4th dimension, but the Immortals call Time a Sphere instead. All the "dimensions" we're talking about are spacial ones. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:15:25 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Is anyone else out there having trouble accessing the Mystara Message Board? I seem to be locked out of TSR's bulletin-board system; it doesn't recognize my name and/or password, for some reason. Given that I'd been planning to post more Hollow Moon stuff there, tonight -- my clunky ol' Eudora account would strangle on posts that big, so I can't e-mail them to the MML -- this is rather inconvenient. :-( Are other folks having MMB-problems, or is it just me? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:23:44 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? I dunno if I'm having the same kind of problems you are, but mine is REALLY slow. It took like 5 minutes after I logged in before I got anything on the screen. I think the server could be having problems, like too many users or something. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:12:20 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? >Is anyone else out there having trouble accessing the Mystara Message >Board? I seem to be locked out of TSR's bulletin-board system; it doesn't >recognize my name and/or password, for some reason. Given that I'd been >planning to post more Hollow Moon stuff there, tonight -- my clunky ol' >Eudora account would strangle on posts that big, so I can't e-mail them to >the MML -- this is rather inconvenient. :-( > >Are other folks having MMB-problems, or is it just me? Yesterday (13 July) I couldn't get on there all day, but today I'm not having any problems. Then again, I'm accessing it with Outlook Express rather than my browser, so it could be that there are still problems from the continuing TSR/WotC website redesign. If you still are having trouble, just break up the Hollow Moon posts into several smaller e-mails and send them to the list. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:59:04 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > So the logic demands that TIME has to be the first dimension > (and not the forth as it is usually called). Silly Ethengar.. No wonder you can't conquer Glantri! The "fourth dimension" of time is not a spatial dimention, i.e. it doesn't define position, but rather, defines a point in time on a space time axis. Remember, it's always (x1+x2+x3)-c^2t for relativity. But isn't all just naming convention anyway? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #293 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, July 15 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 294 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade [MYSTARA] - Darokin [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Fixed! Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 19:16:53 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Ethan said: >Je parle un peu de francais, translate dans anglais s'il vous plait :) > >Ethan - I'm not even sure what I said made sense! "I speak a bit of French, <> English, please." :) D'accord, Christian, j'attends avec plaisir votre prochaine histoire au sujet de Hule, ou bien le co^te sauvage. :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 01:32:38 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade Helas non pas encore.je suis un big lazy boy.Mais je vais m'y mettre.Pour ce qui est des zones reactives c'est super facile avec frontpage98.Je crois que ce sera mon prochain travail. thib Christian Constantin a écrit: > >Je viens de penser à quelque chose qui serait pas mal.Je pourrai créer des > zones > >reactives sur mes cartes afin de renvoyer aux descriptions ou a des > articles > >concernant la zone en question... > >Ainsi Ciudad real renverait à la correspondance que tu as publié. > >comments welcome (heu les commentaires sont les bienvenus...) > > Salut, désolé de n'avoir pas pu répondre plus tôt mais j'étais à l'extérieur > pour des vacances on ne peut plus nécessaires. J'avoue que j'ai déjà eu une > telle idée, mais je ne sais pas du tout comment faire pour intégrer des > zones réactives sur des images online. Ce que j'aurais voulu faire aurait > été de scanner une carte de Mystara et de renvoyer aux différents projets, > sites web et articles qui touchent aux différents continents. > > Quant à l'idée de faire correspondre une intervention de Mr Dragovic avec > une ville ça pourrait être une bonne idée surtout si l'on ajoute > l'itinéraire au fur et à mesure. Néanmoins, j'hésite actuellement à > continuer de traduire la correspondance de ce dernier pour pouvoir me > concentrer plus à fond sur la description des pays. Peut-être que > l'utilisation d'une carte pourrait le mettre plus en valeur... > > Autre carte interactive intéressante: cliquer sur une ville nous donne ses > statistiques commerciales. > > Je finis les descriptions de Bulzan et Antasyn que j'ai entamées et on > pourra en discuter plus à fond. > Christian > PS: as-tu essayer de faire des cartes avec ma technique? > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 22:26:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jenn) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Yes, I've been having the same problems, Sharon; it won't recignize my user name and password. When I tried to log in as a guest, it caused some kind of fatal error and shut down my system. So I'd imagine that the problem is on their side. Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:46:50 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? In a message dated 1999-07-14 14:17:31 Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > So the logic demands that TIME has to be the first dimension > (and not the forth as it is usually called). And of course the gold box rules muddy the waters a bit by excluding time from the dimensions. Remember that we did not regard time as a dimension prior to the discovery of relativity, which almost certainly does not apply to the alternate cosmos of D&D. And the D&D worlds do have characteristics that would be precluded by relativity, not to mention older scientific laws. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:51:40 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Can we just call it quits on this outer geometry thing? it's starting to get kinda annoying. I mean, we don't understand it in this world, why should we in the other worlds? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 13:37:37 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 3: Western Trade >>Je parle un peu de francais, translate dans anglais s'il vous plait :) >> >>Ethan - I'm not even sure what I said made sense! > >"I speak a bit of French, <> English, please." :) > >D'accord, Christian, j'attends avec plaisir votre prochaine histoire au >sujet de Hule, ou bien le co^te sauvage. :) > >Geoff Coming soon on any mail account near you: the Bulzanian Voivodina, starring Zoran Dragovic, the Master, and many others... I'll try to double-check next time I'll send something in the d'Averoigne dialect ;-) Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 99 14:33:12 EDT From: Erik Waddell Subject: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Hello all, I'm new to the whole Mystara thing, but I'm quite interested in the Republic of Darokin as a setting for a D&D campaign. I'm curious as to how many of you out there have made good use of the Darokin material, and how you have decided to run (or what happened when you played in) your games. I'm not sure exactly what I want to do with the campaign yet, but I'm considering directing the PC's towards adventuresome merchant careers that will take them to all corners of the republic. Any thoughts? Erik *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 99 14:38:52 EDT From: Erik Waddell Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Hello again, One thing I've been considering for use in my campaign is allowing PC's to make Sprite player characters (as detailed in the "tall tales of the wee folk" book). I don't want to open the whole range of fairy races to PC's, as some would be a real problem when the group has to move to distant places or interact with other folk (i.e. Treants). My campaign will be taking place in the Republic of Darokin, which seems a reasonable place for sprites to look for adventure, as Darokin surrounds Alfheim and thus the home forests of the little bugs. Plus, I'm kind of nostalgic for old Tunnels and Trolls where PC's could play fairies. Has anyone had any roleplaying experience where Sprites were mixed into the PC group. Does it cause any major problems, or maybe it has some unforseen benefits? I was thinking that perhaps Sprites could be an uncommon, though not unheard of race in Darokin, and thus PC sprites would be able to better fit into the overall setting. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Erik Waddell Political Science III Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 14:52:52 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - TSROnline problems? Fixed! >Yes, I've been having the same problems, Sharon; it won't recognize my >user name and password. When I tried to log in as a guest, it caused >some kind of fatal error and shut down my system. So I'd imagine that >the problem is on their side. > >Jenn I wrote to Sean Reynolds yesterday, and now the problem is fixed, at least with my own account. :-) If you still can't get into the MMB, Jenn, you should write to him c/o skreyn@wizards.com. Thanks for confirming it wasn't just my clunky ol' Netscape, that was messed up! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:27:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin Erik: On Thu, 15 Jul 1999, Erik Waddell wrote: > Hello all, And hello to you to :-) > I'm new to the whole Mystara thing, but I'm quite interested in the > Republic of Darokin as a setting for a D&D campaign. I'm curious as to how > many of you out there have made good use of the Darokin material, and how > you have decided to run (or what happened when you played in) your games. My campaign has been based in Darokin and my players, while not actually becoming merchants, have been buying and selling with a "minor" house I invented. I used B1: In search of the Unknown with major modifications and plunked it in the North Western Darokin mountains to get them started. You can find copies of the extra information I attached to the module on Shaun Stanley's MML Archive Site (whose new URL I've forgotten...) or I could send you the MS Word 97 versions if you'd like to see them. I also wrote a module called "Jet Black", based on an adventure idea out of the Darokin Gazetteer, which (I've been told by a few other MML'ers) is actually quite entertaining, and which you can get from my own Mystara web site at > I'm not sure exactly what I want to do with the campaign yet, but I'm > considering directing the PC's towards adventuresome merchant careers that > will take them to all corners of the republic. Sounds like neat fun! Do let us know how it all works out. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:33:22 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's >One thing I've been considering for use in my campaign is allowing PC's to >make Sprite player characters (as detailed in the "tall tales of the wee >folk" book). I don't want to open the whole range of fairy races to PC's, >as some would be a real problem when the group has to move to distant >places or interact with other folk (i.e. Treants). An understandable choice. I doubt if many people ever DID play treant PCs, when the rules first appeared, given their limited mobility and sky-high XP demands! Sprites seem the most reasonable of the true fairy folk, to introduce as player characters. >My campaign will be taking place in the Republic of Darokin, which seems a >reasonable place for sprites to look for adventure, as Darokin surrounds >Alfheim and thus the home forests of the little bugs. If you're playing after the events in WotI, the whole forest of Alfheim has been transformed into a dark realm that fairies find inhospitable, by the shadow elf invaders. While Oberon's court has transferred itself to the Celtic-style lands on the northern Isle of Dawn, plenty of sprites and others might've slipped into Darokin instead, in hopes they might one day return to a restored Canolbarth. If that's the era when you set your games, it'll even give your sprite PCs a shared, long-term mission: making life difficult for the shadow elves who've stolen their homeland, with Curses, pranks, and other forms of harassment. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 12:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Hey there all: Remember how we were switched from MPGN.com to imagiconline.com a short while ago? Well I just discovered that the mailing list archives at stop as of April 14th, 1999. Does anyone know where the newer archives are now maintained (if they are at all)? Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM<=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:53:03 +0200 From: fantasy@post2.tele.dk Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's >Has anyone had any roleplaying experience where Sprites were mixed into >the PC group. Does it cause any major problems, or maybe it has some >unforseen benefits? I was thinking that perhaps Sprites could be an >uncommon, though not unheard of race in Darokin, and thus PC sprites would >be able to better fit into the overall setting. I have had a lot of weird PC's in my group. At first, a player wanted desperately to play an AD&D cambion, together with the rest of the group who were all lvl 1 at that time. My first reaction was "Get a grip", but we sat down and found out how to make him fit into the campaign, letting him get his special powers at various levels. It worked very well, though we had to grant the character a special ability to magically disguise his face to that of a common elf, though with big ears. He was very adept at slipping away when anyone tried to dispel any magic near him, btw :) After that, I told my group that they could play anything at all they wanted, as long as they accepted any restrictions I set for that character. All in all, it worked more than well. There were problems, of course, and some vert short-lived characters, but everyone had great fun. The main thing I emphasized to those making characters was, that they would be very well off with the group if they could at least disguise their characters as humans. Otherwise, they would have a lot of trouble to enter civilized lands. Actually, a player of mine played a sprite once, and that also worked well. In my campaign, many people use old european folklore, where they fairies were often considered as benevolent, as long as they were not hurt in any way. So lots of people viewed the little sprite as a sort of "good luck charm", and asked for her blessing. On the other hand, others saw her as a very handy spell component or lab experiment-to-be, which also caused quite some fun for all. I think that if you balance it as best you can, having your players choose from many races will just add more spice to the campaign, and allow you to create a very wide variety of adventures. We now play with a game system called Visual Reality, which is not level based, but more like GURPS with classless characters, using a wide variety of skills, and it made it even easier to allow "foreign" races as characters. Among the more weird characters played on the team was Vampire, Lich, Demon, Fallen God, dragon, and Sidhe. All of them were not long-lived, like the vampire who died 5 minutes after meeting the others, but others again was in the campaign for a long time, like the poor fallen God who had no more followers, and just went along with the others to preach about this unknown deity, to get followers to regain his powers :) I hope this was of any help, Alvin Gellert *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 06:14:51 +1000 From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Darokin > You can find copies of the extra information I attached to the module >on Shaun Stanley's MML Archive Site (whose new URL I've forgotten...) or >I could send you the MS Word 97 versions if you'd like to see them. the new site is at http://dnd.starflung.com shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:45:57 EDT From: Rendclaw@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Hello to all! I am an AD&D player/DM for 17 years now, and my campaign has always been Mystara. I found the format for cities found in FR Adventures to be excellent for bringing the towns and cities on Mystara up to speed (2nd Ed.), and I have the Duchy of Karameikos almost done. But what I need is information on the Minothrad Guilds, because I have been looking for years for the original Gazeteer, to no avail. Can someone help? Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 17:05:22 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Brian, What kinda of help do you need? I am not familiar with the FR adventures format, but i own a mint copy of the original gazetter. BTW this is my first posting on this list. Matt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Author: Rendclaw (Rendclaw@aol.com) at unix,mime Date: 7/15/99 4:45 PM Hello to all! I am an AD&D player/DM for 17 years now, and my campaign has always been Mystara. I found the format for cities found in FR Adventures to be excellent for bringing the towns and cities on Mystara up to speed (2nd Ed.), and I have the Duchy of Karameikos almost done. But what I need is information on the Minothrad Guilds, because I have been looking for years for the original Gazeteer, to no avail. Can someone help? Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:06:19 EDT From: Rendclaw@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds ::chuckles:: how much would it take for you to part with it? Seriously though, I have most of the other Gazetteers that I want, and I plan on bringing them all up the 2nd Edition (a gallant undertaking, I know) , I need the Guilds to complete the set, since I have never actually laid eyes on the supplement, I woudn't know what to ask for. Jenni: a *masterful* job on the expansion of B1: In search of the Unknown. I did the same kind of job on modules I2: Tomb of the Lizard King and a couple of others (though nowhere *near* as well thought out as what you did with B1). You should submit that to TSR for a remake. As you may have guessed, my own campaign is about 13 years behind the current standard year, even though I have two campaigns running in the year AC 1002.. The only thing I disagreed with is Alfheim falling in AC 1009 (I think), so I decided to give the PCs a chance to end this threat to the kingdom. Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:21:26 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Brian, Sorry I can't part with it. It is a pretty well written Gazetteer with a strong focus on the campaign and less on the numbers / stats. Isn't TSRonline selling a copy? Matt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds Author: Rendclaw (Rendclaw@aol.com) at unix,mime Date: 7/15/99 6:06 PM ::chuckles:: how much would it take for you to part with it? Seriously though, I have most of the other Gazetteers that I want, and I plan on bringing them all up the 2nd Edition (a gallant undertaking, I know) , I need the Guilds to complete the set, since I have never actually laid eyes on the supplement, I woudn't know what to ask for. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:48:01 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Erik wrote: >Has anyone had any roleplaying experience where Sprites were mixed into >the PC group. Does it cause any major problems, or maybe it has some >unforseen benefits? I was thinking that perhaps Sprites could be an >uncommon, though not unheard of race in Darokin, and thus PC sprites would >be able to better fit into the overall setting. Hey, a fellow Carletonian! I was in the PoliSci program too, but I received my pardon in '97. :) IMC< I ran a pixie NPC for my party, who were in Darokin and Karameikos at the time. Pixies aren't too dissimilar, so I'll go over what I remember: The pixie's (and sprite's) tiny size need not be a liability; in fact, Flit (the pixie NPC) was a very valued scout, as he could sneak around with ease, and his ability to turn invisible was no small benefit, either. His only real limitation was the near-impossibility in finding equipment scaled for his diminutive stature, though the PCs came across some dwarven craftsmen who were up to the challenge - for a hefty fee. I came up with stats for pixie and sprite-sized gear, if you're interested. It should be on Shawn Stanley's website at http://dnd.starflung.com. Overall, the players enjoyed having Flit around, especially when he tried to get into his cups with the rest of them one night....a cheap drunk. :) Darokin is a good place to stage pixies and sprites in "normal" parties, the same could be said for Glantri, Wendar, Thyatis, Alphatia, and Karameikos, though. Hope that helped, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds On Thu, 15 Jul 1999 Rendclaw@aol.com wrote: > ::chuckles:: how much would it take for you to part with it? > > Seriously though, I have most of the other Gazetteers that I want, and I > plan on bringing them all up the 2nd Edition (a gallant undertaking, I know) > , I need the Guilds to complete the set, since I have never actually laid > eyes on the supplement, I woudn't know what to ask for. You should check out e-bay -- things come up there from time to time. If you do a "past auction" search you might get an idea about the price range for that Gaz. > Jenni: a *masterful* job on the expansion of B1: In search of the Unknown. I > did the same kind of job on modules I2: Tomb of the Lizard King and a couple > of others (though nowhere *near* as well thought out as what you did with > B1). You should submit that to TSR for a remake. -=>blush<=- Thank you for your kind words. I actually remodeled the dungeon to some degree too, but wasn't able to share that with the list. I should really make the whole kit-and-kaboodle available as a zip file on my Mystara page... > As you may have guessed, my own campaign is about 13 years behind the current > standard year, even though I have two campaigns running in the year AC 1002.. > The only thing I disagreed with is Alfheim falling in AC 1009 (I think), so I > decided to give the PCs a chance to end this threat to the kingdom. Heck, my campain is still in 999AC and I don't expect WotI to ever occur (even though I own the material). You are not alone ;-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:17:05 EDT From: Rendclaw@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds In a message dated 7/15/99 7:09:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jamm@jamm.com writes: << You should check out e-bay -- things come up there from time to time. If you do a "past auction" search you might get an idea about the price range for that Gaz. ::winces:: I try to stay away from Ebay for the most part.. what little money I have now would disappear as if Flameflicker herself picked my pockets... ::grins:: > Jenni: a *masterful* job on the expansion of B1: In search of the Unknown. I > did the same kind of job on modules I2: Tomb of the Lizard King and a couple > of others (though nowhere *near* as well thought out as what you did with > B1). You should submit that to TSR for a remake. -=>blush<=- Thank you for your kind words. I actually remodeled the dungeon to some degree too, but wasn't able to share that with the list. I should really make the whole kit-and-kaboodle available as a zip file on my Mystara page... From what I read, it would make a great fleshing out of a stock-it-yourself dungeon.. when I think about I must have stocked and re-stocked Quasqueton at least five times.. for varying party levels, of course.. > As you may have guessed, my own campaign is about 13 years behind the current > standard year, even though I have two campaigns running in the year AC 1002.. > The only thing I disagreed with is Alfheim falling in AC 1009 (I think), so I > decided to give the PCs a chance to end this threat to the kingdom. Heck, my campain is still in 999AC and I don't expect WotI to ever occur (even though I own the material). You are not alone ;-) >> ::breathes a sigh of relief:: you have no idea how much better that make me feel. Would you like to exchange each other's campaign status? I would be very interested in how you have tailored your own campaign. Brian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #294 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, July 17 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 295 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? RE: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues [MYSTARA] - Reference for KaviyD and others Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:59:41 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's In a message dated 1999-07-15 15:34:16 Eastern Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > An understandable choice. I doubt if many people ever DID play treant PCs, > when the rules first appeared, given their limited mobility and sky-high XP > demands! Sprites seem the most reasonable of the true fairy folk, to > introduce as player characters. I would have thought that dryads, fauns, brownies, drakes, or sidhe would be more reasonable, since they can more easily pretend to be humans or demi-humans. Sprites would have the minor problem of being significantly smaller than the other characters, which would definitely impact their weapon and equipment use. But sprites and pixies are certainly more playable than most fairy/woodland races other than those that I listed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:20:18 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Jenni A. M. Merrifield >Hey there all: > > Remember how we were switched from MPGN.com to imagiconline.com a >short while ago? Well I just discovered that the mailing list archives >at >stop as of April 14th, 1999. > > Does anyone know where the newer archives are now maintained (if they >are at all)? Wow, thanks for the headsup, Jenni, I have no idea what is up, but I will look into in. In the mean time, anyone that archives the digests themselves, please drop me a line, since we may have to replace them manually. Leroy Van Camp III Sig currently AWOL *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 23:24:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Hi, when I went to I had no problem accessing the digests, including the most recent posts. This is on the night of Wed, July 14. Shane - --- Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > > >Hey there all: > > > > Remember how we were switched from MPGN.com to > imagiconline.com a > >short while ago? Well I just discovered that the > mailing list archives > >at > > >stop as of April 14th, 1999. > > > > Does anyone know where the newer archives are now > maintained (if they > >are at all)? > > > Wow, thanks for the headsup, Jenni, I have no > idea what is > up, but I will look into in. In the mean time, > anyone that archives > the digests themselves, please drop me a line, since > we may > have to replace them manually. > > Leroy Van Camp III > Sig currently AWOL > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of > the message. > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 21:54:42 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? Shane Henry did spake thusly... >Hi, when I went to > I >had no problem accessing the digests, including the most recent posts. >This is on the night of Wed, July 14. Yup, I went there myself, and Shane is right, everything seems copacetic. So, I guess t isn't a problem. Leroy Van Camp III Sig currently AWOL *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:03:39 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - What happened to the MML Digest Archives? At 11:14 PM 7/15/99 PDT, gwxup@excite.com wrote: >Just try hiting refresh/reload. THanks for the suggestion ... except that I *did* try that at the time, before I Posted my comments to the list. How odd ... it does, in fact, seem to be okay now... Sorry for the scare folks. :-) Jenni - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:50:29 CEST From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues Sharon, In your great piece of work on outer geomancy you ask who among the Normals and the Nightmares were the first to be created. Well, what if, as we do for the geometrical values, we consider that time also has a negative value in the Nightmare dimension, thus flowing backwards, completing the mirror? In that case the Nightmares would be devolving, going from an entropic state to primordial law, while the Normal is going the normal way. It would mean that time is not infinite, but when one dimension reaches the primordial singularity both change course and go the other way round. That seems like a good moment for the Immortals/Faeries switch and for the Entropy/4Spheres to switch too. In that case, the Nightmare would currently have its Immortals of the 4 lawful spheres and the chaotic one as Faeries, while the Faeries are the Immortals of the dominent 4 spheres of chaos and the one of law who is opposing them. Of course that would solve the problem of who came first: the answer is nobody, as one type of dimensional creatures are evolving while the other are devolving, and it's switching back and forth between such eras of law/Immortals/evolution and chaos/Faeries/devolution. Immortals (or Faeries) who are blind to the 5th or 1st dimension yet exist in it, are immortal (because they both evolve and devolve) yet view time as something going in one way because of they bias/blindness (Immortals of the Sphere of Time may know more). The Outer Beings, who exist and see both in the 1st and 5th, are immortal and have a very good understanding of time and of the evolution/devolution of the Prime, a knowlegde that few Immortals can grasp and its part of what scares the Immortals. What do you think? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:23:39 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds >::breathes a sigh of relief:: you have no idea how much better that make me >feel. Would you like to exchange each other's campaign status? I would be >very interested in how you have tailored your own campaign. > >Brian My campaign is still in AC 1000, and I'm not sure how things will turn out over the next few years, either. Despite all the neat things that happened during WotI, I still prefer Mystara during the time of the Gazetteers. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:01:45 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > Silly Ethengar.. No wonder you can't conquer Glantri! Well, we HAVE conquered Glantri indeed, but we have bribed the Almanac's correspondent to write that we have lost. Fact is that we have killed all the princes who have not fled in time, and Jherek Virayana and Urmahid Krinagar, now freed from the century-old "Geas", are the new rulers of Glantri, under the wise rulership of the Golden Khan, of course. Soon, we will tell the whole world the truth, now as we have Glantri in a tight grip. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 18:10:20 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Oh no, here we go again. . . . *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 00:38:36 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri seems that the ethengar have once again drunk too much rice alcohol...... Jamuga Khan a écrit: > > Silly Ethengar.. No wonder you can't conquer Glantri! > > Well, we HAVE conquered Glantri indeed, > but we have bribed the Almanac's correspondent > to write that we have lost. Fact is that we have killed > all the princes who have not fled in time, and > Jherek Virayana and Urmahid Krinagar, now freed > from the century-old "Geas", are the new rulers of > Glantri, under the wise rulership of the Golden Khan, > of course. Soon, we will tell the whole world the truth, > now as we have Glantri in a tight grip. > > Jamuga Khan > > "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:04:40 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues >Well, what if, as we do for the geometrical values, we consider that time >also has a negative value in the Nightmare dimension, thus flowing >backwards, completing the mirror?< I don't know about that. Messing with time seems like it ought to be the exclusive province of Immortals of that Sphere -- it's Time's main "edge", to keep it equal with Matter's strength, Energy's firepower, and Thought's cunning -- but if the two continua's clocks run in opposite directions, anyone who pops into the other continuum for a little while would return before he/she left! This would be pretty awkward to deal with, in terms of game logistics (i.e. it's too easy a way to change history in the short term), and would detract from Time's legitimacy as a Sphere, since Time-Immortals -- as much in the dark about the Nightmare continuum, as any Immortal Normal -- wouldn't have any special insight into or control over the phenomenon. In any case, time's direction of flow doesn't seem to be limited to the Prime. Visitors who travel to other planes still experience time's passage in the same direction, albeit sometimes at different rates. So time and its passage would seem to be a multiverse-wide phenomenon, rather than something that's confined to the Normals' and Nightmares' continua within the Prime. >In that case the Nightmares would be devolving, going from an entropic state >to primordial law, while the Normal is going the normal way. It would mean >that time is not infinite, but when one dimension reaches the primordial >singularity both change course and go the other way round. That seems like a >good moment for the Immortals/Faeries switch and for the Entropy/4Spheres to >switch too. In that case, the Nightmare would currently have its Immortals >of the 4 lawful spheres and the chaotic one as Faeries, while the Faeries >are the Immortals of the dominent 4 spheres of chaos and the one of law who >is opposing them. Even if time runs in the same direction -- i.e. from past to future, birth to death, etc. -- in both worlds, this can still happen. All it takes is that we allow thermodynamics to be running the other way, in the Nightmare continuum, such that chaos diminishes over the course of (forward-running) time. If it's Stasis that is the "big baddie" Sphere there, rather than Entropy, then it'd make just as much sense for stasis to be increasing in that continuum, as for entropy to be increasing in the Normals' realm. Once the continua have been reduced to their respective final states -- the Normal, to total entropy; the Nightmare, to total stasis -- the once-divided "good guy" Spheres of each continuum merge, shatter their antagonist-Sphere into four parts, and start their continuum's thermodynamics running in the opposite direction. OTOH, if you try to have time, ITSELF, running in the opposite direction in the Nightmare continuum, then you get weird outcomes like people being removed from graves at the beginnning of life, growing younger over the years, and then being reabsorbed into their mothers' bodies at the end. Not only would this seem icky and/or silly -- it's like something "Mork & Mindy" used as a gag -- but it'd leave too little for PCs to do there, if all around them they're seeing effects turning into causes, instead of vice versa. They can't find gold, just watch it being buried in the ground by miners. They can't train apprentices in their class or pass on their skills or even give advice, because if they teach people things, they're making them forget things they'd previously known. They wouldn't even be able to kill monsters, just find their carcasses and "un-slay" them back to life! Reversed time makes a decent short sci-fi story -- I forget the title, but I remember reading a very famous one where time ran backwards -- but it'd make a pretty poor game, if all the PCs get to do is UNdo things for which they can already see the consequences. It takes away all the players' choices. >Of course that would solve the problem of who came first: the answer is >nobody, as one type of dimensional creatures are evolving while the other >are devolving, and it's switching back and forth between such eras of >law/Immortals/evolution and chaos/Faeries/devolution. Again, this can work even if time isn't running backwards ... just thermodynamics. Note that increasing stasis doesn't necessarily mean "devolution", because things that are well-suited to survive in a changing world will keep right on passing on their traits better than others which aren't well-suited (i.e. evolving). This remains true, even if the changes they are adapting to ARE those of an increasing order, rather than increasing disorder. To get "devolution" to occur, nature would have to be intentionally selecting for traits that get a life form killed or prevent it from breeding, which is preposterous: natural selection is not intentional, it is passive. >The Outer Beings, who exist and see both in the 1st and 5th, are immortal >and have a very good understanding of time and of the evolution/devolution >of the Prime, a knowledge that few Immortals can grasp and its part of what >scares the Immortals. The way I'd pictured it, what scares the Immortals isn't things the OBs know ... it's that they aren't even sure if the Beings "know" things -- or "feel", "choose", "exist", "think", etc -- at all! The OBs' nature is SOOOOO alien, it's not even all that accurate to say they're 'alive', let alone have specific "understanding" as Contiguous beings define it. Whether the Outer Beings perceive time's passage even occurs, as other beings do -- heck, whether they "perceive" at all! -- is open to question. So just saying the Immortals are scared, because the OBs know something they don't, would reduce their fundamental 'weirdness' too much, IMO. If we grubby little small-minded humans could understand what the Outer Beings are REALLY like and/or up to, they wouldn't be the Outer Beings, would they...? The point is that they're too alien for Contiguous creatures -- which includes us humans who are reading the MML! -- to figure out, entirely. All I did was suggest what frame of reference they might've originated in, in the context of the IM rules; actually assigning them motives, knowledge, and/or a detailed explanation we readers could understand would be counterproductive. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Reference for KaviyD and others Hi all, Remember just a couple of days ago, when we were discussing the appropriate HPL mood that can be used as an inspiration for protraying the Outer Beings, Nightmare creatures, and the like? Well, I found that story that discusses the possibility of "other" creatures inhabiting the same spaces as ourselves. The story is "From Beyond" - a good little short story that I think would provide a good example of how the idea of the Nightmare DImension being superimposed on the Normal one might work. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:54:07 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri In a message dated 1999-07-16 19:24:52 Eastern Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > seems that the ethengar have once again drunk too much rice alcohol...... Where would the Ethies get rice from? Ethengar is not exactly good rice growing country.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #295 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, July 18 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 296 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated Re: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's [MYSTARA] - a challenge to you all Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? Re: [MYSTARA] - a challenge to you all Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra: Day 16 Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra: Day 17 Re: [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:25:15 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated just a quick note to inform you that my page has been updated. http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/ thibault *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:50:36 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Whatever happened to Operation Hydra? In a message dated 7/11/99 7:09:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave_is_rabid@hotmail.com writes: << I was wondering if anyone knew whatever happened to Mr. Alex Benson, the author of Operation Hydra. He left the Thyatian Navy right before all the good action was about to commence! >> hey guys, yep it's been a while since i was active here...being a lurker more than anything else. as jeff pointed out i have been preoccupied with a series of surgeries to deal with an old sports injury. so far i have had my shoulder essentially rebuilt, one of my ribs removed, my wrist rebuilt, and tendon repair my right hand. heck...even now i sit here with a bew half cast of plaster and fiberglass from the last surgery performed a mere two weeks ago. i actually had the stitches removed today. with five incisions my hand looks like its been through a plate glass window. to top it all off i have the promise of yet one more bout later this year to finish the tendon repairs. my medicinal, occupational, and net almanac duties have placed hydra upon the proverbial back burner for some time. admitedly i have also recently become addicted to Baldur's Gate. the strange thing is that hydra is pretty much finished. albeit the unposted portions are on notebook paper inside a handy black binder and need to be keyed in. i still have at least two more weeks of down time from work so maybe i'll fire hydra back up. all in all the war with the thadders is pegged to slow down to reflect the state of siege that exists in the campaign. you'll see more multi-day entries. of course there are a few key battles to resolve. for those not aware, operation hydra is a scenario where a post wrath thyatis invades minrothad. already posted entries can be found at Shawn Stanley's Site. there should also be some battle maps there that were not posted to the mml. hydra was fun to do. it really needs to be finished. i think i'll devote some time to posting the rest of it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:56:29 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues Sharon wrote: >The way I'd pictured it, what scares the Immortals isn't things the OBs >know ... it's that they aren't even sure if the Beings "know" things -- or >"feel", "choose", "exist", "think", etc -- at all! The OBs' nature is >SOOOOO alien, it's not even all that accurate to say they're 'alive', let >alone have specific "understanding" as Contiguous beings define it. Exactly! That's why I called them "Beings From Beyond", and later "Outer Beings" - their experiences and their perspectives (or at least our closest approximation to them) lie totally outside anything Immortals (much less mortals!) can comprehend. Hence, they literally are "outside" everything that is known; they don't follow any of the "rules". This is one reason why seeing them in the flesh, or even delving too deeply into their thoughts (as with the Contact Outer Being spell) can easily lead to permanent insanity. >Whether the Outer Beings perceive time's passage even occurs, as other >beings do -- heck, whether they "perceive" at all! -- is open to question. >So just saying the Immortals are scared, because the OBs know something >they don't, would reduce their fundamental 'weirdness' too much, IMO. I agree with you here. This is another reason why I have decided not to come up with stats for them, as I had originally planned. By doing so, I would have made them quantifiable, limitable, and killable. You don't see stats for Old Ones, why should you for Outer Beings? They've evolved as a definite menace that any evil DM can insert into their campaigns; they're not in your face, but they are there, and that, alone, makes them deadly. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:50:14 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? I didn't even think immortals could become Old Ones cause weren't Old Ones from the beginning of time (meaning that they created mortals and everything or am I just mislead) >>Of course, any Immortals who have been around for thousands or millions of >>years must by definition not be very ambitious, as they would otherwise have >>become Old Ones or perished in the attempt long ago -- at the very least, >>they should have reached maximum Immortal level. Failure to do even that >>suggests that they have little in common with ex-mortal Immortals. > >Unlike mortals immortals can and do go around spending their permanent >power points - so a failure to reach the maximum level could merely suggest >that the immortal is merely pretty active. > >As to how ambitious the Immortals who aren't Old Ones are, I believed that >Old Ones wee basically not really all that well known even to the Immortals. >As opposed to the mortal-Immortal relationship where mortals know a fair >bit about their Immortals the Old Ones are unknown. And any rate, perhaps >the processes for becoming an Old One are unimaginably long winded - I mean >the candidates are immortal after all, they've got enough time. > >shawn stanley >http://dnd.starflung.com > >what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:51:47 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri It was just a way to mock them.Let's say they've robbed a glantrian caravan conveying some brandy from Averoigne to Rockhome.Happy now? They seem to get succeptible too... Kaviyd@aol.com a écrit: > In a message dated 1999-07-16 19:24:52 Eastern Daylight Time, > thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > > > seems that the ethengar have once again drunk too much rice alcohol...... > > Where would the Ethies get rice from? Ethengar is not exactly good rice > growing country.... > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:33:00 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > Silly Ethengar.. No wonder you can't conquer Glantri! > > Well, we HAVE conquered Glantri indeed, > but we have bribed the Almanac's correspondent > to write that we have lost. Fact is that we have killed > all the princes who have not fled in time, and > Jherek Virayana and Urmahid Krinagar, now freed > from the century-old "Geas", are the new rulers of > Glantri, under the wise rulership of the Golden Khan, > of course. Soon, we will tell the whole world the truth, > now as we have Glantri in a tight grip. > Oh, you mean your Khan is still deceived by those illusion and charm spells we cast on him all those years ago? He still doesn't realize that Glantri actually has 14 principalities, one being the Principality of Ethengar? Well, as long as he is happy in the asylum we built for him in the Land of Black Sand, we should be fine. - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:53:16 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's At 21.59 15/07/99 EDT, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >I would have thought that dryads, fauns, brownies, drakes, or sidhe >would be more reasonable, since they can more easily pretend to be >humans or demi-humans. Sprites would have the minor problem of >being significantly smaller than the other characters, which would >definitely impact their weapon and equipment use. But sprites and >pixies are certainly more playable than most fairy/woodland races >other than those that I listed. I once had a Pooka PC for a few adventures, but they tend to be rather overpowered. Their time-warping abilities could be really dangerous for game balance IMO. ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:11:36 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - a challenge to you all I have a challenge for all you skilled artists out there. I am looking for someone to be able to draw my character. He is an elven infiltrator (F/M/T), and the race is that of the Selenii (created by my GM), the skin color would be something like a coppery color, like a mix between sylvan and drow, but more towards the sylvan. If you would like to take this task on, I would be most honored, and would supply all and any information needed to assist you on this. Thanks. Melf the Shadowstalker *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:25:28 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri In a message dated 7/17/99 5:52:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: << It was just a way to mock them.Let's say they've robbed a glantrian caravan conveying some brandy from Averoigne to Rockhome.Happy now? They seem to get succeptible too... >> or just go with good ole fermented mares milk. ah....the pause that refreshes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:28:59 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Minothrad Guilds In a message dated 16/07/99 00:09:01 GMT Daylight Time, jamm@jamm.com writes: > -=>blush<=- Thank you for your kind words. I actually remodeled the > dungeon to some degree too, but wasn't able to share that with the > list. I should really make the whole kit-and-kaboodle available as a > zip file on my Mystara page... Yes, you should. You really, really should. Would now be convenient? ;-)) Hey, I'm nothing if not encouraging (that is, pushy ;-). Carl Q (back from a week's holiday in sunny Wales) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:40:46 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic All, As I'm back, I thought I'd bring the tone down a little from the rarified dimensional heights it reached in my absence. ;-) Here, for your edification, are a few items produced by the Itinerant Archmage, Tervine Culver. Carl Q. - - Tervine's Travel-Magic: The following items were devised by the Thyatian Archmage, Tervine Culver. Tervine, a fussy little man who was well-known and respected for creating useful and powerful magic items, became irritated by the difficulty he had in transporting his magical implements, or "clutter", as he referred to them. Consequently, he spent several years designing magical items which would be easy to carry, yet ready for use when he wanted them. Some of these proved so useful that he was deluged with requests for copies by fellow Mages, resulting in a good many of these items appearing all over the Known World. A few of his creations are noted below:- Tervine's Multi-Wand: Tervine created or reproduced many magical Wands over the years (including most of those listed in the Rules Cyclopedia), but found it impossible to carry more than two in easy reach, which to him was unacceptable. He devised this versatile item to allow him to access the powers of many different Wands without "overloading himself with bits of wood", as he put it. The Multi-Wand is a slender, 12" long piece of rowan wood. One 4 " portion - the grip end - is stained a darker hue than the rest of the Wand; at the beginning of the stained area, a shallow indentation encircles the Wand. There are no other markings. If Detect Magic is cast, the Wand radiates only the faintest trace of enchantment; this is because it is a channel for magic, rather than a magical item itself. The magic is contained in a number of rings, designed to fit over the Wand and rest in the indented spot; Tervine carries these in a small pouch at his waist, next to the Wand's holster. Each ring is charged with the power of a single normal Wand (Fireballs, Lightning, Polymorph etc.), and contains 1d6 charges. Exchanging one ring for another takes 1 round. The rings cannot be used without first placing them on the Multi-Wand. The rings are made of a rare and difficult-to-make alloy of platinum, iron and mithril, and have individual command words inscribed on their edges. They may be recharged. Tervine paints his in different colours, to allow easy identification in combat. Tervine's Fast-Draw Daggers: Frustrated with the time required to arm himself in battle with daggers and throwing-knives, Tervine created this item to ensure he always had a weapon to hand. This multi-part magical item includes one ring, one Dagger +2, and two Throwing-Knives +1, all made and enchanted by Tervine. The ring is made of Dragon-bone, as are the carved and inlaid handles of each blade; these items were all made from the same bone. The Dagger is worn at the waist, and the knives are kept in sheaths strapped to the wearer's left wrist and right ankle, respectively. The ring should be worn on the wearer's dominant hand. While wearing the ring, Tervine can teleport the Dagger, or either throwing-knife, directly to his hand for easy use; alternatively, he can exchange any of the three items at will. The transfer takes a fraction of a second; for instance, he could exchange the Dagger for a throwing-knife, hurl it at a foe, and rearm himself with the Dagger in a single round. Alternatively, a spellcaster could empty his hands of weaponry, cast a spell, then immediately re-arm himself to help defend against attacks. Unless a weapon is in its sheath, it cannot be summoned - Tervine could not hurl a throwing-knife in one round and summon it back to his hand in the next, for instance - and must be recovered manually. Of the many Fast-Draw weapon-sets in existence, most share the same arrangement as this version; however, any combination of small hand-to-hand and thrown weapons is possible. Tervine's Transpocket: Tervine's former lover, Delivane Crookback, once described to him an item she had seen on another world which could store multiple items in an extra-dimensional space, rather like a Bag of Holding. Intrigued by this, Tervine came up with the Transpocket, a limited version of that item. The Transpocket is a large ring made of electrum, about the diameter of a man's head - indeed, Tervine usually wears it as a circlet, keeping his hair neat. when held in the hand and commanded, the circlet generates a hole in space within its bounds; the user may place any item small enough to fit through the aperture into this hole, which then fades from view. The Transpocket can store upto 15 separate items in this way; any additional items placed in the Transpocket will vanish forever. Whenever the user wishes to withdraw an item, he speaks the command word ("Farrune", for most circlets), then names the item to be retrieved; this pops out of the aperture into his hand. One item may be placed in the Transpocket, or retrieved, per round. The Transpocket may be utilised in this fashion as often as required. Note: Living things cannot be placed in the Transpocket; the aperture will simply fade if this is attempted. This includes animals and other organic life-forms, but not magically-intelligent weapons, like swords. The Transpocket itself, unlike most items of this type, can be safely stored in a Bag of Holding, so long as it is not activated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:18:27 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer Geometry 801: How do OBs fit in...? >I didn't even think immortals could become Old Ones cause weren't Old Ones >from the beginning of time (meaning that they created mortals and everything >or am I just mislead) The "Secret of the Multiverse" -- I swear, that's what the IM books' topic-headings call it! -- is that the Old Ones, despite their phenomenal power, are in exactly the same predicament as Immortals: they can't reproduce their own kind. The only way they can incease their numbers is to "recruit" potential Old Ones from among Immortals, just as Immortals have to find new candidates for Immortality among mortals. Even if some of them pre-date the multiverse as we know it, any Old Ones who now join their ranks have to start out as Immortals ... and thus, as mortals, before that. Whether or not the Old Ones created the cosmos has never been revealed by "canon" sources. They were intended to be mysterious, so the role of Old Ones in the cosmos' creation (if any) was left up to individual DMs to define ... and the game doesn't continue beyond Immortal levels, so there isn't much need to define them anyway. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 23:28:57 +0200 From: Erewan Laubgaenger Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - a challenge to you all Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > I have a challenge for all you skilled artists out there. I am looking for > someone to be able to draw my character. He is an elven infiltrator (F/M/T), > and the race is that of the Selenii (created by my GM), the skin color would > be something like a coppery color, like a mix between sylvan and drow, but > more towards the sylvan. If you would like to take this task on, I would be > most honored, and would supply all and any information needed to assist you > on this. Thanks. > > Melf the Shadowstalker i want to have these paintings too. i sorry that i am no an artist. thanks IBON *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:17:46 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra: Day 16 Operation Hydra: Day 16 Force A: The seige of Minrothad City continues. Adm. Helena continues to have her forces erect seige equipment and construct battlements. Several subordinate officers express the men's want to attack. Adm. Helena orders them to continue as is. She instructs the officers to place disgruntled troops with the entrenchment crews working their way towards the river bank. Force B: Shortly after midnight, Adm. Serpico orders his ships to lay down artillery fire to cover the landing of his marines. Thinking it but a continuation of artillery barrages, the Harbortown defenders react slowly. It is only with the marines offloading that they react and move troops to meet them. This pause is enough to allow the Thyatians ample time to secure their presense upon the docks, the wreckage providing cover and hindrences to both sides. Resistance intensifies as more defenders move to the docks. Fighting is intense and casualties are high for both sides. By morning the Thyatian marines claim roughly half of the docks. Around noon resistance collapses as the defenders pull back into the city. The marines rush forward taking ground and striking down the retreating Thadders. Serpico orders his troops to halt and establish positions. His men are tired and he sees them as being in poor shape to immediately face the seaward side of Harbortown's walls. Hearing of Serpico's early assault upon the docks, an enraged Gen. di Cicero orders a hasty assault of his own. He had expected the naval assault to begin much later. By midmorning the assault begins. With the 26th Assault Cohort laying down a blanket of artillery fire, the 9th Cohort charges towards the battered walls. The 17th and 20th Cohorts are to be held in reserve. The assault is met by the defenders, who launch their own missiles into the ranks of troops assembling in the city's drymoat. It comes as quite a shock when they begin tossing vials of alchemical concoctions upon the Thyatians. Some of these ignite, others offer acidic burns. With the comittment of the 17th Cohort, the Thyatian assault is too much for the defenders. As more surmount the walls, they organize and begin clearing them of defenders. Ignoring the inner city, the Thyatians turn their attentions towards the gatehouses. By nightfall, the Thyatians hold both gatehouses and have managed to set the main keep on fire. With the opening of the gates, Gen. di Cicero moves his forces in and has the 20th Cohort establish defensive positions for the night. He plans to continue his push into the city the following day. Force C: In the early dawn, Gen. Nikkos and his occupation troops are awakened by the warcries of an approaching army. As they bear down upon the battered defenses of Malfton, Nikkos identifies them as Thadder Marines. He instructs the troops of 4th Cohort to assemble as the are and hold them off while the horse troops of the 28th Cohort don their weapons and armor. Nikkos sends dispatch riders to inform the 6th Cohort of this arrival. Without their armor, the 4th pays a heavy price. However, they do hold back the Thadder Marines long enough for the 28th to properly equip themselves. Foregoing their mounts, the mounted infantry move up to relieve the beleaguered troops of the 4th Cohort so that they too can properly equip themselves with their own weaponry. Seeing their delimma, some Hin leave their homes to take up arms and join the attack marines. Greatly outnumbered, the mounted infantry are pushed back into the Hin town. Their lines solidify as properly equipped troops of the 4th Cohort return to their positions. The tide of battle turns as the troops of the 6th Cohort begin arriving on scene. With the Light and Medium Cavalry ready, Nikkos orders a counterattack. With themselves outnumbered, the troops of the MMF break. Many surrender outright. Those retreating are cut down by the pursuing cavalry. Master of Marines Matin Dirkson and a few marines establish a redoubt in an abandoned building, content to fight it out to the death. Their wish is granted and they fall under a wave of Thyatian troops. The battle is over in a little over an hour. Nikkos surveys the scene. His own losses are high, many of the fallen wearing little more than their tunics. The majority of Hin had stayed in their homes and out of the battle. Those that had rebelled were mostly dead. The rest had surrendered and were taken prisoner. Seething at their betrayal, Nikkos orders their deaths. Later on, he calms down and offers an option. Those under arrest will be ransomed for 1000GP each. Those not ransomed within three days will become slaves. The proclamation is unpopular with the Hin, but after the more vocal are also arrested they calm their protests. Nikkos later meets with an enraged Kimber Nimblefingers who tries to negotiate their release. Nikkos is unmoved by the plea, stating that the decision is far more lenient than the normal punishment. After the Hin leader leaves, Nikkos uses magic to report the incident to Adm. Helena, who supports his decision. Likewise, they decide that all prisoners taken will be ransomed as well. Nikkos orders an increased military presence on the streets of Malfton and Prosperity Hill. He also sends mounted patrols to insure that no additional Minrothad forces are in the area. Force D: Adm. Pentalon's fleet of treasure ships travels on. Despite their loads the weather holds and they make good time. As darkness comes upon them, lookouts spot ominous clouds on the distant horizon. The ships' crews secure their vessels for the oncoming storm. Force E: With their target before them, Capt. Ostenphius orders his troops onto Bright Cliff. The village is small and its militia stand little chance at meeting the invaders. The town surrenders after a brief show of resistance. Ostenphius moves in, billets his men, and declares marshal law. The ships of 23rd Fleet sail back to Minrothad waters and continue their patrols, hoping to catch the ships they had spotted while acting as escorts for Pentalon's Force D. Later in the day word reaches them of the battle at Malfton. Putting two and two together, they decide that the troops had been landed by those Minrothad vessels. The 23rd Fleet begins prowling the waters for these ships. Oran Meditor and Warheart Cleaver are told that Thyatian forces had breached the walls of Harbortown and defeat was likely. Feeling that the Harbortowners are exaggerating the situation, Warheart urges them to carry on as best they could. He falsely tells them that troops would be on hand to relieve them. In Minrothad City, the populace remain uneasy and on the verge of panic. To aid morale, Warheart Cleaver takes a chance and sends out small bands of troops. Their task is two-fold. Primarily they are to gain precise information on the Thyatian forces and damage them in some way. Hopefully this will boost morale. Under the cover of darkness several small groups of soldiers leave the city and cross the river in small rowboats. Due to the darkness, little information is gathered. They do manage to set fire to several tents, a couple of seige engines, and some supply crates. The flames inspire cheers from the beseiged, however they are fleeting. Amid the swarms of Thyatian troops, the infiltrators are soon discovered. Many are killed or captured while in the Thyatian camps. Only two groups returned to their boats. Both boats were sunk as they crossed back over to the city. Still the sight of the fires was uplifting for the Thadders. The damage itself is minimal. In Harbortown things are really going bad. The bulk of their defense forces have been killed or are exhausted from the assaults. With their landward walls breached and their seaward defenses threatened, their few remaining garrison troops and conscripted irregulars are in ill shaped to resist much longer. With the docks under Thyatian control food supplies cannot be brought in. Factions of the city are proposing surrender while others want to await help from elsewhere. They decide to soldier on. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:17:54 EDT From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Operation Hydra: Day 17 Operation Hydra: Day 17 Force A: The seige continues. Activies are slight. The previous night's raid has gotten the Thyatians' attention to the reality of the situation. Adm. Helena spends the majority of the day confiring with her subordinates. The previous day's battle at Malfton intensifies Thyatian resolve to destroy what remains of the Thadder Naval Forces. She orders her admirals to reorganize the Thyatian Fleets to destroy them. Force B: Not to be outdone by Gen. di Cicero, Adm. Serpico orders his ships and landed marines to enter the city from the seaward side. With his galleys docked at the water's edge, they focus their artillery upon the southernmost coastal gatehouse. After about an hour, he orders the marines to assault the battered gatehouse. With the defenders spread throughout the city , they make haste in battering down the barred doors. Those few defenders they meet offer but a slight fight, many surrendering outright. The Marines take the gatehouse and quickly move into the city. With Serpico's marines assaulting the city, Gen. di Cicero sends all three of his infantry cohorts into the city. Both forces move into the city, each intent upon reaching the Olde Wall in the city's center. The Harbortown defenders have lost all of their fight. The streets are littered with the discarded uniforms and weaponry of the defenders. Those that choose to fight surrender after a minimal resistance. By noon elements of the marines meet with contingents of the infantry at the Olde Wall. About an hour later city officials approach the Thyatian lines and formally surrenders the city. Gen. di Cicero accepts the surrender and declares marshall law. He informs Adm. Helena of the city's capture. With Serpico expected to lead his forces on patrol, Gen. di Cicero is given the role as military governor. The remainder of the day sees the Thyatians dealing with the wounded and establishing themselves within the city. Serpico rests his marines and has his crews begin preparing to depart. Force C: Gen. Nikkos spends the day cleaning up from the previous day's battle. He places 4th Cohort in Malfton and 6th Cohort in Prosperity Hill. He tasks the cavalry of 28th Cohort to overseeing the prisoners and patrolling the surrounding countryside. The Hin produce enough gold to buy the ransoms of several of the prisoners. Kimber Nimblefingers promises more gold soonafter, though it is doubtful that enough is on hand to buy all of the prisoners' freedom. Force D: Adm. Pentalon's fleet of treasure ships spends most of the day fighting the gale force winds of the storms. Scattered during the storm, it takes the rest of the day for them to reassemble. Though most ships suffer some degree of storm damage, only one vessel is lost. The crews offer praise to Protius and work through the night to make repairs. Force E: Capt. Ostenphius is informed that the bodies of several of his officers have been found. The guilty party is quickly discovered as they eagerly confess to the deed. The murderers were the family that the soldiers had been billetted with. It seems that during the night they had become quite patriotic and killed the sleeping troops in their sleep. Ostenphius assembles the populace and pronounces punishment. The father, a widower, is executed outright. The two daughters are sentenced to a life of slavery. Their spacious home and properties would be confiscated as property of the Empire. The ships of 23rd Fleet forego their hunt of the Minrothad ships and set a course for the Thyatian Sealane. Oran Meditor tries to contact Harbortown, but to no avail. He can only assume that the city has fallen. He summons Ambassador Andrea Secuva and proposes an armistice with Thyatis. For a peace agreement, Oran offers trade concessions and gold as tribute. Secuva tells him that such a negotiation is not up to her. Oran allows her to use magical means to forward the offer to Thyatis City. The response is quick and to the point. The offer is denied as being insufficient. Oran makes several more offers, however each of these are turned down. With Harbortown lost, Warheart Cleaver sends individual messages to both Stronghold on Fortress Island and the elven cities on Alfeisle. He tells them of the continued seige of the capital and the loss of Harbortown. He requests that they send forces to Trader Island. The elves protest his request, citing their own need for forces to protect their island. The dwarves are a bit more open and offer assistance if they could. However the presense of Thyatian ships makes this difficult. Warheart tells them to focus on defending Fortress Island. With aid not forthcoming, Warheart intensifies training of the conscripts gathered from the capital's populace. In Minrothad City, the morale boost from the previous night's raid begins to fade. Despite their joy, the dawn's light reveals the Thyatians to still be there. To worsen matters, it is discovered that the food supply is worse than expected. An inventory check reveals a clerical error. Word of this spreads quickly. Soon, rumors run rampant of sabotage and food hoarding. Warheart Cleaver declares marshall law and places troops at the food warehouses. He also reduces rations for nonmilitary personnel. He hopes that this move will promote recruitment. Warheart then sends a magical message to the NACE lands. He does not request military aid, he offers to hire NACE troops as mercenaries. With pay rates double the normal fare, the response is positive. However it would take weeks to mobilize the troops and get them to Minrothad waters. With Minrothad not having the luxery of that much time, the deal dies. The 2nd Privateer Fleet sent to Fire Island arrives early in the morning just prior to sunrise. Throwing caution to the wind, the four vessels set sail for Cove Harbor. They habitually stop at the barricade only to find it gone. Sailing up the Reedy River they spot several bodies caught in snags at the banks. Making the turn they come across the surprisingly quiet town. The pirates decide to dock and see the city up close. The carnage is beyond their expectations. The buildings are in ruins and bear the signs of being torched. Strewn about the streets are the corpses of their fallen brethren. As they survey the wrecked buildings, some of the bodies begin to stir. Before they know it the corpses are staggering towards them, their clawed fingers reaching for their throats. Horrified the pirates rush back to their ships. Not all make it past the zombies. Those that do make it hurry to cast off before the approach undead reach them. Their efforts are in vain. The mages that created the undead appear high above the vessels. They bombard the vessels with spells, sending them down in pieces. Those that survive the sinkings are cut down as they thrash about in the waters of the Reedy. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:59:33 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic Carl wrote: >Tervine's Multi-Wand: Neat idea, Carl! I could see people IMC killing for one of these. Incidentally, if one were to try to buy one off of Tervine, how much would the wand and each ring cost? What would happen, for example, if a wizard were to put a ring of spell-storing on the wand? Could he/she then be able to cast the stored spells through the wand? >Tervine's Fast-Draw Daggers: >The ring is made of Dragon-bone, as are the carved and inlaid handles of each blade; these items were all made from the same bone. Is dragon bone the only acceptable material, or could other bones be used? >Of the many Fast-Draw weapon-sets in existence, most share the same >arrangement as this version; however, any combination of small hand-to-hand >and thrown weapons is possible. How about throwing axes? Ooh, deadly! Dwarves would like this one!! :) >Tervine's Transpocket: >The Transpocket is a large ring made of electrum, about the diameter of a >man's head - indeed, Tervine usually wears it as a circlet, keeping his hair >neat. when held in the hand and commanded, the circlet generates a hole in >space within its bounds; the user may place any item small enough to fit >through the aperture into this hole, which then fades from view. The >Transpocket can store upto 15 separate items in this way; any additional >items placed in the Transpocket will vanish forever. Hmmmm...what would be the encumbrance limit of the transpocket, or is there simply a weight limit for each item? >Note: Living things cannot be placed in the Transpocket; the aperture will >simply fade if this is attempted. Darn! Can't stuff fifteen rabid pizza-eating hamsters into it, and then toss them out in rapid succession at a foe! 8-D >The Transpocket itself, unlike most items of this type, can be safely stored in a >Bag of Holding, so long as it is not activated. Okay, Carl, this sounds really ominous. What would happen? :) Great stuff, Carl! Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #296 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 297 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Hurrah for Operation Hydra! Re: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated Re: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 6 and the ubour [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 7 [MYSTARA] - Woodland Folks and spirits [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 8 [MYSTARA] - Janizary Lands [MYSTARA] - Janizary Lands (real file, sorry) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:17:44 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hurrah for Operation Hydra! Well, I think its great that Operation Hydra is back, and it's even better to hear from you, Alex. I remember you telling something about your injuries personally through email reguarding Hydra a while back. I just hope that you heal quickly and well. Can't wait for more Hydra! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:36:47 EDT From: DrklngMuse@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated In a message dated 7/17/99 1:14:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: << http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/ >> Very nice site!! Ryan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 04:27:21 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - mystaran page updated Thanks and new maps are to come soon. DrklngMuse@aol.com a écrit: > In a message dated 7/17/99 1:14:15 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > > << http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/ >> > Very nice site!! > Ryan > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:05:33 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 6 and the ubour Kulnovo, Flaurmont 1, AC 1010 Dear old friend, Now it is certitude, those strange cats are magical creatures, I've seen one emitting sparks at night! After a little questioning of the local population I've been able to establish that what they call an Ubour is, in fact, some kind of lesser vampire. They do not act as if they were aggressive in any ways though. People told me that as long as they are correctly nourished they do not attack human or drink blood, they seem to prefer table leftovers and milk! However, once upon a time an aggressive Ubour will rise and attack humans, and even organize the others against human. Then, as an old woman told me, the vampirdzhija (vampire hunter) will be asked to clean the streets from the Ubours. It seems that, normally, Ubours like their cat form and take pleasure from their new living conditions (what I can understand since the only thing they do is to sleep all day and eat the food given by the humans). People tend to both respect and fear the Ubour, they always keep a watchful eye on them and they never let them inside their homes. The easiest way to distinguish a Ubour is to watch them at night: if a cat emits electrical sparks, it's a Ubour. The really evil Ubours, or greater Ubours, are rarely seen and are supposed to be a really fearful encounter. There are still a lot to see and to learn here in Kulnovo, however, the current political and military situation is too tense for me to stay here. Tomorrow, I'm taking a small shuttle boat toward the small village of Yablan where I could more easily conceal my true identity behind the disguise of a fortuneteller. I hope that I will later be able to cross the Olgar-Bulzan border without much trouble. The Huleans are everywhere and they are particularly paranoid in Olgar. Your friend, Zoran Dragovic Cat Ubour Greater Ubour Armor Class: 5 3 Hit Dice: 3** 6** Move: 120' (40') 90' (30') Attacks: 2 claws/1 bite or 2 claws or 1 spark 1 spark Damage: 1d4/1d4/1d6 +disease 1d8/1d8 + energy drain or 1d8 or 1d12 No. Appearing: 1d8 (2d6) 1d4 (1d6) Save As: F3 F6 Morale: 8 10 Treasure Type: None F Intelligence: 5 9 Alignment: Neutral Chaotic XP Value: 65 825 Ubours are the most common type of undead encountered in the converted lands. They harbor the soul of beings who have been killed suddenly or violently but unjustly. These souls are granted the permission to reincarnate in big fat cats and to live the peaceful life of those creatures. However, once upon a time, the spirit of the dead being may try to remain in the corpse by the sheer force of will and later come back to seek vengeance as a greater ubour. The cat ubour looks like a bigger cat than the average, one that also look like being more intelligent than most of its brethren. This kind of ubour constantly emits small electrical sparks, so that they seem to glow at night. They aren't usually aggressive and live mainly on what the human community gives them. However, a hungry cat ubour may attack humans to drink their blood. In surplus of their natural manifestation attacks (claws and bites), when it is not in melee combat, the cat ubour may attack by projecting an electrical ark on a distance of 40' which does 1d8 damage unless the victim succeeds in doing a saving throw against dragon breath (which halves the damage). Wounds inflicted by direct contact with the cat ubour have 50% chance of transmitting a disease to the victim. This disease is similar to the one transmitted by mummies (prevents magical healing and slows normal healing to 10% of the normal rate) but can be either magically cured or cured after a full week of complete rest. The greater ubour can both be seen in its cat manifestation form (similar to the cat ubour) or as a zombie like creature. The greater ubour can transform in 1 round from one form to the other. In its humanoid form its gelatinous flesh, its barbed tongue and its sole nostril help identify the ubour; they also emit sparks and glow in the night as their cat equivalent. The greater ubours have the same weaknesses as vampires though; their reflection in mirrors only depicts the inner skeleton of the Ubour. They normally attack with their claws-ended hands but can also throw an electrical beam on a distance of 60' when they aren't in melee combat. This beam does 1d12 damage unless the victim succeeds a saving throw against dragon breath (which halves the damage). Direct contact with a greater ubour results in the drain of one experience level. A greater ubour may summon 3-18 cat ubours if they are within 300 feet (300 yards outdoor). Greater ubours control other kinds of undead as a nonspell-using vampire of 7 or 8 Hit Dice. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:06:43 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 7 Yablan, Flaurmont 3, AC 1010 Dear old friend, My journey on the lazy Sarja River has ended without much trouble and now I'm in the big village of Yablan. What wasn't my surprise when I saw to centaurs at the village marketplace! Normally, these creatures tend to be secretive and live in remote forest; however, here in the Converted Lands they seem to be a not so uncommon sight. This was the only beginning of a series of surprises. Later on I saw a small group of fauns, that the locals call satyri, drinking at the same table as a group of peasant and fortunetellers. Since it seemed quite easy to talk with them I took the opportunity to learn a little more about the interaction of the Woodland creature and the humans in the converted lands. They informed me that most of their likes were expelled generations ago from the great forest of Niwhelm (now the Dark Wood) by the Master and the evil Leshii (which seems to be an evil kind of creatures from the forest allied with the Master). Since then, they were forced to mix with the surrounding human community. They also told me that the biggest communities of woodland denizens were concentrated in Bulzan and at the southern edge of the Zdredanyan Forest in Antasyn and Monzag where they could find more forested areas than here in Olgar. It seems that, as the Olgarians, they really like divination and fortunetelling, and this is why so many of their kind are here in Yablan for this festival. I was invited to demonstrate my powers as a fortuneteller, which forced me to impress the audience with carefully selected spells. If my art made great impression on the common populace, I should say that much of the other fortunetellers and diviners are charlatans. Nevertheless, I've met a small black man who, according to the local populace, came from a distant jungle realm of the far south (I suspect the Yavdlom, but can't be sure). This man had great divining powers, I must admit, but I wasn't able to talk directly to him. He made some troubling predictions: he talked about a powerful object that sustains the Master's power, about three glorious beings fighting to reach immortality and of a great war to come between them for the control of this powerful item. I wonder if this story is connected with the diplomatic contacts that the Olgarian rebels have made with other forces opposed to the Master… While I was eating and drinking at the fair's camp. I have been invited by locals to try the village bathhouse (I wonder if I should take that as a message after such a long journey and so many researches). I was quite interrogated by the local custom of giving offering to the local bath spirit, since my hosts enjoin me to do the same, I did. After the offerings were given, I was surprised by the tranquility of the place and the feeling of peace that submerged me. I wasn't able to keep me from using a little Detect Magic to see if this feeling was magically induced. Again, to my complete surprise, I saw, in the corner of the bathhouse, a dog-like creature that glowed with magic. I'm sure that it wasn't there moments before I've cast the spell and as soon as the spell ended, it disappeared again. At the sight of my surprised expression, my hosts told me that what I saw was the Bannik, the guardian spirit of the bathhouse. They also warned me that to see a Bannik was a bad presage, a sign that death would come around me. Intrigued, I've asked some more questions to them. They went on describing the four guardian spirits of the Converted Lands (the bannik, the domovoi, the dvorovoi and the ovinnik). They also told me that good care should be taken of these spirits since they provide a good protection from evil beings and also provides magical powers to their human summoners and since no one want to face an angered spirit. All this seemed at first very strange to me, but I have seen and felt the presence of this creature, and the strong discipline surrounding the offerings and rituals tell me that there is much truth into these believes. Even here in the rural Olgar, you can sense the tension between the Olgarians and the Master's power. I've seen many Holy Men and dervishes around the fair, but they were looking more for the Church of Traladara and the rebels' envoys than to an old fortuneteller like me. Nevertheless, I know that a hard part of my journey still lies ahead. Indeed, the Huleans are particularly overlooking the frontier between Bulzan and Olgar since they suspect the rebels to try to export their uprising in the peaceful Voivodina. I hope that I will be able to board a boat with the same identity I already have. I've met many people who came to the fair from Bulzan and I'm looking to hide myself amidst them. Anyway, I'll take no chance and will memorize some powerful spells in case… well in case. Your friend, Zoran Dragovic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:17:36 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Woodland Folks and spirits Woodland Folk and Guardian Spirits of the Converted Lands The Hulean Region of the Converted Lands is a region filled with magical creatures that were driven out of the Dark Wood by the Master's evil powers. Scores of woodland creatures were forced to look for smaller hideouts throughout the region in hope to come back to their homeland once the Master would have disappeared. Since most of the region southern woods were cut down to make place for the field of the human agrarian societies, these woodland creatures do not have the choice but to interact with the humans of the region. This constant interaction between humans and the woodland creatures and spirits has forged the rural culture into one of deep superstitious believes and the constant use of petty magic rituals. If, at first, these rituals would make laugh any serious magic user, they are not so benign and may have important effects on the everyday lives of the common peoples of the region. When travelling into the Converted Lands it is important to remember that magic is everywhere and that the simplest ritual can bear a deep magical situation or summon magical entities. The Woodland Folk The Woodland creatures of Niwhelm were forced out of their home forest when the Master took control of Hule four centuries ago. Since then they have been forced to merge into the surrounding human societies or to flee to the colder Zdredanyan forest. All kinds of Woodland creatures can be found in the Converted Lands some being highly integrated in the human societies as others, being more secretive, have preferred to stay hidden in the smaller woods that dot the entire region. Centaurs: The man-horse folk are probably the Niwhelm inhabitants that most easily merged with the surrounding human communities. Although this cohabitation isn't always without problems, centaurs can be found around most of the villages that are near to a wood or a forest and even, in rarer occasions, in cities. The biggest communities of centaur in the Converted Lands can be seen near Chetniu in Bulzan, in the forested hills of the Zorab Gur in Antasyn and in Northern Monzag, where they cooperate with the rebel to fight the Huleans. Wila (Dryads): Adventuring dryads are present in the entire region they mix with humans while keeping their secret identity hidden to their human counterparts. Hamadryads, or dryads attached to a soul-tree, can, however, only be seen in the deepest forest of northern Antasyn and Monzag. Satyrs (Fauns): Satyrs usually don't interact too much with the human communities of the Converted Lands. Their chaotic behavior usually doesn't help them to integrate into some more "civilized" areas. Nevertheless, the Master's control over Niwhelm has forced them to flee to more secure areas nearer to human communities. Many of them found shelter in the farther part of the Dark Wood at the edge of Olgar; others fled to La Pineda or to the Marmureg Wood, south of the Empire and a last group decided to brave the weather of the Zdredanyan Forest in northern Antasyn and Monzag. A smaller group of satyrs decided to settle in the Antasynian communities near Leqan and the Zorab Gur, there, they were able to mix into the local population and adopt some of their custom even though animosity is still palpable between the two people, most of the time in the evening after the last-call of the local taverns. Kurin (Hsiao): the legendary Sage-Owl of the Converted Lands is a respected and revered creature throughout the region. Even though that they are few in the region (the Master has ordered his armies to shoot at sight) they are very important in the regions customs and beliefs. People usually go to see them in their hideouts to ask for advises or for knowledge. Some of them are renown to be among the most powerful magic-user in the Converted Lands. Leshii: They often appear as peasants, either without a belt or with shoes on the wrong feet. Sometimes they are said to have wings and a tail and be covered in black hair. Many assigned them goat's hooves and horns like fauns. They are usually attributed with green eyes. They can change their size from that of a blade of grass to that of the highest tree. Usually they carry a club to show their rulership over the forest creatures. The Leshii can take the shape of a familiar person and lead you astray with the sound of their voice. Once in their domain, they might tickle their victims to death. They can also become a hare, wolf, bear, raven, pig, horse, rooster, flaming firtree or even a mushroom. The Leshii are fond of trees and are said to be heard weeping when one is cut down. They are the protectors of the forest and all it's creatures. Their favorite animal is the wolf - the king of the beasts in the Converted Lands folklore. They are also said to be often seen in the company of bears. The Leshii are the evil spirit of the woods. No one knows exactly their original appearance, but it is said that they look like particularly ugly and big winged fauns. Leshii are able to Polymorph Self at will into any kind of non-magical forest being (plants as well as animals) or into humanoid forms. They can also use a Mass Charm-like power once everyday (there is no penalty to the victim's saving throw, contrarily to the normal spell). They usually appear with a small pack of wolves (1-8, normal) or, on rarer occasions, with one or two bears (black or grizzly). They are opposed to treants and will challenge any if it comes on the Leshii territory. Their favorite meals are young fairies and dryads, although they don't dislike grabbing a human for dinner or just for the fun of seeing it suffer. Leshii Armor Class: 5 Hit Dice: 6*** Move: 150' (50') Attacks: 2 claws or 2 branches, or 1 weapon Damage: 1d8/1d8 or by weapon No. Appearing: 1 (1d4) Save as: T9 Morale: 7 Treasure Type: D Intelligence: 12 Alignment: Chaotic XP value: 750 Leshii are the traditional opponents of the treants for the control of Niwhelm. With the arrival of the Master in Hule, they have passed an agreement with him so that the Dark Wood will be protected from further human expansion in exchange of the alliance of the Leshii with the Master. Leshii can be found mainly in the Dark Wood and in the surrounding forests and, less frequently, in the Zdredanyan forest or in the forested valleys of the Black Mountains. Musail (Treants): Before the Master's takeover, Niwhelm (Dark Wood) was a great forest full of Treants to protect the smaller beings of the forest. Now, it is rumored that some of them have stayed in the Dark Wood to fight the evil forces brought in by the Master, but most of them were destroyed or force in exile to the Northern Zdredanyan forest by the growing power of the Leshii. Surviving treants of the Converted Lands tend to be quite angry about their situation and protect more jealously than everywhere else their territories. They can be seen mostly in the forests going from northern Monzag down to the Zorab Gur in Antasyn. Poludnik (Wood Imps): Wood Imps are rare in the Converted Lands since, in opposite to the rest of the Woodland Folk, they accepted the Master's Rule and even cooperated with him. As they revere the same entropic immortals than the Huleans, they accepted to serve the Master as long as the Dark Wood is protected from excessive development. It is said that they, with the Leshii, now rule the entire forest of the Dark Wood as agents of the Master. The Fair Folk: Pixies, sprite, pookas, and all the rest of the Fair Folk aren't usually seen near human settlements. However, as the number of undead and humanoids grew in the Dark Wood they were also forced to quit Niwhelm. Before the Master's Takeover of the forest, there were three great fairy kingdoms in Niwhelm: Bram, Ja and Minuar. The first two were force to leave in hurry toward the Zdredanyan forest in northern Antasyn, where Brami's and Jaja's courts were transferred; the third one caught off guard by the sudden arrival of skeletons and goblins on its territory was decimated and forced to merge with the dwindling kingdom of Fey in La Pineda. The Guardian Spirits of the Converted Lands Guardian spirits are ethereal creatures found everywhere in the Converted Lands' rural areas. People tend to respect them and give offerings to appease them or to bring their protection upon the household. The worshippers of the Bulzanian Agrarian Cult (The Patriarchs' sect) are particularly disciplined when it come to the respect due to the different kind of spirits. Guardian spirits of the Converted lands are helpful if correctly respected but can become annoying or even deadly if someone's behavior offend them. The way to get a guardian spirit to watch over an area is somewhat the same for all kind of spirit, though the nature of the offerings and the ritual may change a little. The oldest family member to the next generation usually tells the rituals. The daily offerings needed to get a guardian spirit in a specific area are usually made of goods worth between of 10 sp per day, for a peasant family, and 10 gp per day, for a rich family. Each day in which the correct rituals are made brings 1% of chance that a spirit will come with a maximum of 60%. Every skipped day reduce the chances of getting a spirit by the same 1%. If somebody fail to do the correct rituals during a week or more, his chances are brought back to 0%, and the entire process must be redone from the beginning. Once a guardian spirit decide to live in a building or area, offerings of the correct nature to the spirits must still be made daily, otherwise some of the bad aspects of the spirits may materialize. As for the offerings needed to bring a guardian spirit, the standard daily offering needed to keep a spirit varies in function of the wealth of the household or person doing the ritual. Failure to do the offerings and rituals brings a daily cumulative 5% chance that the spirit will leave or be angered (the spirit will leave on a roll of 1-4 on 1d6, and be angered on a roll of 5 or 6). There is no way to keep a guardian spirit from leaving once it has decided to do so and a new one must be summoned. An angry spirit won't leave on the spot, he will try to play tricks against his former masters or even hurt them, his protection against evil will disappear and it won't give any great power. There is two ways to get rid of an angry spirit: to destroy him in combat (their combat statistics are given at the end of the description) or to appease him. To appease a guardian spirit, one must give two times more offering to him during at least a week, after this lapse of time the spirit may simply leave, he may be appeased and will grant back its powers, or he may stay angry, then the only way to get rid of it would be to destroy it. Normally, an angered spirit won't attack on the spot, it will prefer to play malicious tricks to the entire household. However, if someone tries to destroy it, it will materialize and defend itself with the last of the energies. In combat, only magical weapons can reach the guardian spirit ethereal substance. Also, spirits are immunized from any mind-controlling spells. All guardian spirits have two kind of magical powers. Their common power is to protect from evil (the same way as the clerical spell Protection from Evil 10' radius) the entire building or area in which they live. This common power is in effect as long as they stay in the building or area that they have to protect or as long as they aren't angered. The second, the greater power differs from one kind of guardian spirit to the other and is not automatically granted to the summoner or to the area where the spirit lives. For it to be used, the summoner of the spirit must prove his total worship by giving additional offerings and rituals. For the guardian spirit to accept to use its greater power offerings must be multiplied by three as should be the time allowed for the rituals. This must go on for at least a month, after which there is a cumulative 5% per day that the spirit will accept to use its greater power. Usually, guardian spirits can't use more than four times their greater power in a given year. As ethereal creatures, they are invisible most of the time, however, each spirit has is own preferred material manifestation, which it will utilize to reward or to punish people. The presence of a guardian spirit in a particular place can always be discovered by a Detect Magic spell. There are currently four different type of guardian spirits, each of which inhabiting a different place and interacting with human in different ways. (Parts of the following descriptions were taken from the Slavic Gods & Goddesses website) Bannik: Bathhouse spirit. In the Converted Lands, bathhouses are like saunas with an inner steaming room and an outer room for changing. They are dark and frightening and like many scary places, are considered perfect for divinations. They are also the place most often used for childbearing. No newborn is left there long, though, lest the fairies would steal him. No religious icons are allowed in the bathhouse, neither, as they may offend its true occupant - the Bannik. It is customary to offer every third firing of the sauna, or sometimes the fourth to the Bannik. One did not want to disturb him while bathing, though, or he might just throw hot water on them. Other times he would use his sharp claws to flay his victim alive. Besides a firing of the sauna, they like offerings of soap, and fir branches. The Bannik usually takes on the ethereal appearance of a member or friend of the family. The Bannik is responsible for the protection of the bathing house and of its users; its Protection from Evil power extends to the entire building and may be enjoy by any of its occupants if they do the required offerings and rituals. It manifests himself in times of danger to warn people using the bath. The greater power the Bannik may grant to somebody is the ability to Commune, as with the clerical spell. The person must ask three question, which the Bannik will answer to by yes or no. In combat the Bannik will take the material form of a big dog with steam coming out of its ears. A successful attack made by the bannik will result by the paralysis of its victim (for 2-8 turns) if it can't make a saving throw against paralysis. Domovoi and kikimora: Male and female house spirits. The Domovik and kikimora are the commonest spirit to be found in the Converted Lands. They usually live in the attic, behind the stove, under the threshold or in the stables or cattle barn. They are thought to be responsible for all domestic prosperity and tranquility and finish chores when family members forget. They will howl and moan to warn of approaching trouble, and pull hair to warn a woman in danger of abuse from a man. He can be heard laughing if good times are ahead, and if you hear him strumming a comb, there is a wedding in the future. The Domovoi should be fed nightly or he may cause trouble, much like a poltergeist. Usually, if neglected, he will simply leave. To attract a domovoi, one should put on his finest clothing, go outside and say "Dedushka Dobrokhot (grandfather well-wisher), come live with us and tend the flocks." Special care is taken in the Converted Lands to only obtain pets and farm animals in the Domovoi's favorite color. Each new horse is introduced formally to the Domovoi for the spirit took especially good care of the animals he liked but tormented the ones he didn't. When a new house is built, the owner would put a piece of bread down before the stove went in, to attract the domovoi. When a person moved, the coals from the stove were taken with them and the formal invitation "Domovoi, Domovoi, don't stay here. Come with our family" is recited to ensure that the Domovoi came along to the new home. Salted bread, wrapped in a white cloth will appease the domovoi as will putting clean white linen in his favorite room - an invitation to eat with the family. You can also hang your old shoes in the yard to brighten the Domovik's mood. The domovik and kikimora usually resembles in their material form as a male or female head of household, living or dead. If he shows himself, it is usually to warn of death. He can also be heard weeping when death approaches a member of the household. In addition to their power to protect the entire household from evil, Domovoi may also use its Cureall greater power on any member of the household four times a year. Also, any food or water brought into a building inhabited by a Domovoi will be purified as with the clerical spell Purify Food and Water. In combat, the Domovoi will keep it's human appearance and throw anything at hand (pots, pans, utensils, chairs, etc) against its opponent. One gaze of the angered Domovoi is enough to get a mental disease (-2 to intelligence, the character will feel down and desperate, there is even a risk that he may try to commit suicide, until the disease is magically cured). Dvorovoi: Yard spirits. Like the domovoi, his material form usually resembles the male head of household and has preferences as to the color of pets and livestock. He is usually malicious and sometimes, but not often, deadly. Placing a shiny object appeases him, slice of bread and piece of sheep's wool in the stables while saying "Master Dvorovik, I offer you this gift in gratitude. Please look after the cattle and feed them well." The dvorovoi protect the entire yard or field from evil. If correctly and rigorously served he can also accept to use its powers of Growth of Plant, as the magic-user spell and of Growth of Animals as the clerical spell (each of which may be ask and granted up to for times a year). In combat, the dvorovoi keeps its human manifestation attacking with bare hands. However, its blows are so powerful that they may even affect the best-protected person. Also, a successful hit will paralyze the victim if they fail their saving throw. Ovinnik: Barn spirit. The threshing barn of the Converted Lands is a 2 story building with a furnace entrenched in earth on the first floor and the second floor for drying the grain. It is ruled by the ovinnik. You could sometimes hear him laughing or barking like a dog from the corner of the barn in which he lived. Offerings of blini or the last sheaf were left to him. If angered, he is known to burn down the barn, usually with its owner or the owner's children in it. The ovinnik protect the barn and the people inside it from evil, it also grant the building the power to Resist Fire as the clerical spell does. The greater power of the ovinnik is the power to Create Food as a cleric of the ninth level. An angered ovinnik will appear as a huge disheveled black cat with burning eyes. It will attack with its claws, but can also breath fire once every two rounds. The fire breath causes only 1d10 damage but will ignite any kind of paper, cloth, wood or straw that it touches, thus adding 1d2 damage per round to the bearer of such an item unless the fire is brought down. Combat statistics Bannik Domovoi Dvorovoi Ovinnik Armor Class: 4 3 3 2 Hit Dice: 5** 4** 6** 5** Move (Flying): 60' (20') 60' (20') 90' (30') 90' (30') Attacks: 2 claws 2 missiles/1gaze 2 fists 2 claws/1 breath Damage: 1d6/1d6 + 1d8/1d8/ 1d8/1d8 + 1d4/1d4/1d10 + Paralysis Disease Paralysis Fire No. Appearing: 1 (0) 1 (0) 0 (1) 1 (0) Save as: C9 C9 C9 C9 Morale: 9 10 10 9 Treasure Type: None None None None Intelligence: 11 13 12 11 Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Chaotic Neutral XP Value: 425 175 825 425 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:18:47 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 8 Ekhva, Flaurmont 6, AC 1010 Dear old friend, Things aren't going easily around here. The Huleans forces are everywhere. I'm currently hidden in the small village of Ekhva near the frontier with Bulzan. The Master's forces won't let anybody cross the frontier by boat since an Olgarian attack against the Suklujkir Reserve in the Janizary Lands have cost the lives of many goblins. Goblins are everywhere looking for revenge and all the native Olgarians who were travelling with me were taken to an unknown place. I've been able to deal with the goblins with my scarce notion of the Hulean language, but I don't know if this ruse will work against the Holy Men. A young Bulzanian proposed me to cross the frontier near the ruins of the Castle Venestiu, a haunted place that the goblins avoid by any means. I will try that way tomorrow evening, since I'm not sure how this undercover expedition will work, you will find with this letter some more information that I've learned about the military province of the Janizary Lands. I hope that this won't be the last letter that I'll send you… Your friend, Zoran Dragovic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:19:32 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Janizary Lands Ekhva, Flaurmont 6, AC 1010 Dear old friend, Things aren't going easily around here. The Huleans forces are everywhere. I'm currently hidden in the small village of Ekhva near the frontier with Bulzan. The Master's forces won't let anybody cross the frontier by boat since an Olgarian attack against the Suklujkir Reserve in the Janizary Lands have cost the lives of many goblins. Goblins are everywhere looking for revenge and all the native Olgarians who were travelling with me were taken to an unknown place. I've been able to deal with the goblins with my scarce notion of the Hulean language, but I don't know if this ruse will work against the Holy Men. A young Bulzanian proposed me to cross the frontier near the ruins of the Castle Venestiu, a haunted place that the goblins avoid by any means. I will try that way tomorrow evening, since I'm not sure how this undercover expedition will work, you will find with this letter some more information that I've learned about the military province of the Janizary Lands. I hope that this won't be the last letter that I'll send you… Your friend, Zoran Dragovic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:20:38 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Janizary Lands (real file, sorry) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BED17C.86E72E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dark Wood and the Janizary Lands In the old times, the Dark Wood was the central part of the great forest that covered most of Central Brun from the Yalu Sea to the Gulf of Hule. Niwhelm, as it was known back to these ancient times, was a dense temperate forest inhabited by strange woodland beings and avoided by most humans. For the first human settlers of the Great Valley and of the Yazak Plain, Niwhelm provided most of the game and timber that these primitive societies needed. But, as the human populations surrounding the great forest grew in number and evolved technologically the constant axe blows made it slowly recede to its actual dimensions. Constant wars on one side or the other of the forest drove people deeper and deeper in the forest and closer to its original inhabitants: the woodland folks. After some small conflicts between the two groups of being a more or less peaceful cohabitation was established, and cooperation even developed. For centuries, the fragile balance was kept until the rise of the Master in Hule. When the Master decided to move his capital to the heart of the Dark Wood in 603AC was accompanied by a much grander change. This decision was justified by the will to better protect the heart of the Empire from external aggression, but also for the Master own secrets and experiments to be kept secret. Greatrealm, his temple and capital, was constructed in a way that it radiates evil on the entire forest. Hence, most of the woodland creatures uncomfortable with the new presence moved to the colder Zdredanyan Forest or to the smaller woods south or west of Niwhelm. Since then, only few creatures still resides in the Dark Wood, they are mostly animals or evil creatures allied to the Master. Even the animals are part of the Master's magic control over the forest since he can see and hear what most of them see or hear. For administrative purposes, the Dark Wood was separated in two different units. The first one called the Sanctified Lands is the Master's own dominion. This is a restricted place where strangers are spied and captured at the first occasion, it also serves as a test ground for government candidates. The second part, is made up by the southwestern portion of the Dark Wood and by Rockwater, the flooded part of the forest, it is called the Janizary Lands and is considered as a big humanoid reserve. The Dark Wood: The local people fear this large forest for it is rumored to be haunted. Humans do not live in it and most of the non-humans beings (even the evil ones) avoid it. The most common trees of the forest are oak and aspen. The underbrush in this forest is very thick. Thorn bushes abound. Animals found in the wood include bear, boars, deer, small game, owls, crow, ravens, toads, and bats. People going into the wood always have the sense that these creatures watch them as they travel. Running waters in the forest are enchanted. There is a cumulative that one drinking this water will be transformed into a boar or a deer (the transformation occurs after four saving throws vs. Spells consecutive or not). Groups of skeletons patrol the skies of the forest aboard flying barges. At the center of the Dark Wood is Lake Tros, a large (4,500 sq. mi.) and seemingly bottomless freshwater lake. Greatrealm, the Master's capital city, lies on the shore of this lake. Greatrealm consists mainly of a vast temple complex built inside a walled compound. Fields tended by the temples' novices surround the land around the temple. A large path lined by the statues of the different deities revered by the Huleans links the Temple to the shore of Lake Tros. All the buildings are heavily decorated with statues, friezes, elaborate eaves, towers, banners, and paintings. The Janizary Lands: the Master created the administrative region of the Janizary lands in 651AC. The Greatrealm Declaration creating the new region was a move to control the western part of the Darkwood and thus putting more pressure on the western kingdoms to abide to the Master's rule. The first concrete result of this declaration was that scores of humanoids invited by the Master settled the region and forced the local human population (Huleans and Bulzanians) into exile. It also further encouraged the woodland folk to move out of the area. Two major castles were build to increase Hule's military control of the region: Castle Üskedoz is responsible of the Northern Janizary Lands and is the Key to the Central Military Route which links directly Greatrealm to the Western part of the Hulean Empire, it is one of the biggest military work west of Darokin; Castle Karçil, is build over an older Hulean military construction, it controls the Southern Military Route, which skirts the Dark Wood by the south. It is also a key position at the source of Rio Tuntos; in short it is overlooking all of the Savage Baronies river system. Another important inhabitant of the Janizary Lands is the great Voysava, a huge green dragon that is one of the only living being in the Dark Wood beside the Master and his close minions. Voysava is known to like gratuitous destruction and terror, however it hasn’t been seen for years, rumors want it dead, killed by a group of Torreonese adventurers or asleep. The northernmost part of the Janizary Lands consists of a large bog called Rockwater. This marsh was formed 25 centuries ago when the mighty river Gree changed its course toward lake Tros instead of the Gulf of Hule following major telluric activity. Rockwater is the home of a big Troll community. Their ancestors were magically brought there by the Master about 400 years ago to serve in his armies. Since then they have grown up in number and are a constant threat for the surrounding human communities. The only human communities that can still be seen in the Janizary Lands are concentrated in the central plain near Rockwater and at the border with Olgar. These Hulean and Bulzanian communities have accepted to live under the threat of the humanoids in exchange of the personal protection guaranteed by the Master himself. They are involved in agriculture and herding and are responsible for the supply of the region's garrisons and reserves. - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BED17C.86E72E00 Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-ID: <002401bed19e$0de80520$5cb7d084@conc01077505> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== - ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BED17C.86E72E00-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #297 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, July 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 298 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 9 [MYSTARA] - Bulzan (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:21:54 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 9 Miriestiu, Flaurmont 12, AC 1010 Dear old friend, Once again, the immortals have been with me! With their help and, I should say, thanks mainly to my magic, I and a group of Bulzanians and Olgarians led by my young acolyte have been able to cross the frontier by Castle Venestiu. This wasn't an easy task since the place is really haunted. In fact, the castle's ruins are the lair of a powerful vampire that we have been able to defeat, after many long combats against his own controlled undead. For the first time I saw the terrible greater ubour who was at the service of the Vampire. I count myself lucky to have survived, since only five of the original group of eight persons have been able to make the trip to Miriestiu. The young Bulzanian, Georghe, who was the first to introduce the alternate road to me proved to be a fierce warrior, even though is young age. Also, I was surprised to see that a Church of Traladara's envoy was with us, she was a powerful ally against the undead. Even better is the fact that Katerina will travel with me to the north, as she must deliver a message to the Kyurduks. The third member of our group, Xhemil, told us that he was returning to Antasyn from a trade mission in Olgar, but I believe that his motives were darker than what he accepted to say; he is also supposed to travel with me until we reach Antasyn. The last member of our small clandestine band, Ion, was more frightened than useful in the combats against the undead, but he knows how to play the lute, which is better than nothing. With them I felt confident enough to described the real purpose of my journey, I hope I haven't made a mistake. This new orientation of my journey told, I should say that Miriestiu is the nicest city I have ever seen. Even Glantri pales in comparison! You should see the "Corporatie" (corporations) quarter near the Council building, this is a pure wonder of the world. It is all delicate constructions overlooking the Ostrita River falling into the Dinretul River some 75 meters lower. All the city's official buildings are covered with copper dome and the streets of the high city are paved with granite. Of course, all the city isn't that beautiful, the lower city is one of the worst slum that I've ever seen but the overall poverty is eclipsed by the grandeur of the Corporations' Quarter. Strangely, the Bulzanian society doesn't allow most of its peoples to work independently: they should be part of a corporation to work or else they should be paid a wage by the corporations' members. You could guess that most of them, the "Proscris", live in terrible conditions. But, I have heard of a religious sect that is trying to establish a new system, they want everybody to vote for the Bulzanian council, I'm pretty sure that if they ever win the region will be in total chaos! Talking about religious sect, the Bulzanian society on this topic is quite fragmented. Numerous religious sects can be found throughout the country, each of which with its own philosophy and its own pantheon. They are all much or less in conflict on against the other as they are all trying to win followers among the Bulzanians. The biggest one is the Agrarian Cult, known here as the Patriarchs' Temple. The Temple of Chaos, the Huleans religion is just one among other recognized and accepted sect. The Church of Traladara was once another recognized Bulzanian sect but, since the troubles in Olgar, it has also been outlawed. The Bulzanians seem to accept the Master's domination as normal. They say that without him and his troops the country would be a mess. The Bulzanian Council, Bulzan's supreme political body, seem to cooperate totally with the Holy Men, although I have sensed that some delegates, mostly merchants, were dissatisfied with the current orientation of the Master's policies. Also, there are some complaints about the level of taxation needed to finance the occupation armies in Sind. After some researches, Miriestiu's university has a very impressive library, I must admit that I still don't know what may be the object that keeps the Master at the head of his armies. Maybe the Yavdlom diviner was wrong or maybe this wasn't the good place to find the information I needed. I think about visiting some of the upper city's temples, maybe the religious have some answers. Your friend, Zoran Dragovic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:23:58 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bulzan (long) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BED17C.FE96D400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Bulzan Voivodina Location: Continent of Brun, in the Converted Lands west of the Dark Wood and Hule, and south of the Bylot Hills. (For a map of the Bulzan Voivodina, click here: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/hule/Olgarmap.JPG) Area: About 48,500 sq. mi. Population: 125,000 humans (75% Bulzanian, 15% Olgarian, 10% Hulean) plus some elves and halflings. Language: Bulzanian, Olgarian, and Hulean. Coinage: Lei (gp), Kuru (sp), Bani (cp). Government type: Oligarchic council headed by a Hulean representative. Industries: handicraft, agriculture, animal breeding, metalworking, and woodcutting Important figures: Dogut Zaganos (C23, of Masauwu), The Master's delegate to the Bulzanian Council; Sorin Cardei (M31), secretive wizard of the Lotev Hills, head of a network of Bulzanian resistance against the Master (other important figures are described in the attached document about the sects). Description: Bulzan is a land made mainly of large valleys separated by rolling forested hills. Numerous small villages and hamlets dot these large valleys. People of these rural communities live mainly from agriculture and animal breeding, almost any kind of crops or herds can be found in the rich and fertile Bulzanian lands. The country is divided in three historical provinces, Oltania (north), Nantenia (southwest) and Bradjina, each of these marked by specific religious, cultural and economical traits. The biggest human communities are also the three provincial capitals: Miriestiu (which is also the historical capital), Dishinau and Chetniu. The Bulzanian lands extend to the north to the southern edge of the mineral rich Bylot Hills where some mining occurs. To the east, the main natural border of Bulzan is made of the large marshes of Rockwater and the western edge of the Dark Wood. The southern and western borders of Bulzan are a little less clearly defined as the southern border with Olgar is still somewhat in dispute and as there is some remote Bulzanian communities at the fringes of the Yazak Steppes outside the reach of the Hulean Empire. Weather in Bulzan is temperate and a wetter than in the southern parts of the Hulean Empire. In winter the cold winds of inner Brun brings heavy snowfalls and cold rain. Spring is characterized by the collision of the northern cold winds and of the atmospheric systems coming from the Western Sea of Dread, which result in violent thunderstorm and heavy rain. Summer is somewhat dryer, although the country keeps most of the Spring humidity thanks to the shelter provided by the Lotev and Bylot Hills which insulate the valleys from the strong dry winds coming from the Yazak Steppes. Fall is similar to Spring, but less rainy since the southern hot winds reach the region more rarely. An important landmark of Bulzan is the Rockwater marshes. Even though that, since the Master's Greatrealm Declaration, this bog is part of the Janizary Lands and infested with Troll, it remains an important feature geographically as well as economically and culturally. Indeed, dozens of small communities live on the resources taken from these inundated lands: peat is taken from its shallow waters as strange fish can be caught in the deeper regions, the hides from the several reptilian species living in the Rockwater microclimate is prized throughout the Hulean Empire as are the various types of medicinal, hallucinogens or poisonous flowers and mushrooms that Rockwater harbors. Petrified wood and amber are also rarer riches that this march provides to the surrounding peoples. Also, as the Bulzanians usually give their deads to the mighty river Dinretul, which empties in the bog, it is believed that the spirits of the dead Bulzanians haunt this land. So, for the people of Bulzan, this march is both the symbol of the country's riches and the places where a lot of frightening stories or epic legends take place. The origin of the Bulzanian people is responsible of the different type of people that one can find in Bulzan. The Bulzanians descent from the Yazak colonists that settled the region prior to the cataclysm that brought the end of Blackmoor. Since these colonists came mainly from the distant realms of Blackmoor and Thonia, people of Bulzan are of lighter completion and hair than their southern neighbors of Traladaran ascent. However, as the original Yazak people needed to interact with the surrounding Neathar and post-Oltec tribes, most of these "pure Blackmoorian" aspect were altered during the centuries. This is even truer since waves of Hulean colonists have been assimilated by the Bulzanian society throughout the different Hulean Imperial era and since the Traladarians have arrived in the region some four centuries ago. Thus, Bulzan is a land of varied looks, customs, religious believes, and cultures. One of the only aspects that the Bulzanians have kept from their Yazak ancestor is a very rigid social division of labor. Indeed, the Bulzanian society is characterized by the importance of the various "corporatie" (corporations) that structure the society. Those corporations are active in most of the sector of the society: every recognized trade (masonry, woodcutting, mining, military, landowners, etc.) has its own corporation representing its interest and protecting its advantages. Each religious sect can even become a corporation if it represents a fair number of followers, but the only members that form a religious corporation are the priests of this faith. Only the members of those corporations are allowed to own a land or a business. People that are not members of those corporation (roughly 75% of the population) can only work for someone who is member in exchange of a (normally) ridicule wage. The only advantage of being a "Proscris" (outcast) is that they are not taxed since only the members of the corporations are required to pay the (tithe) to their corporation, which, in exchange, provides for the state budget. This situation is responsible for abnormal number of "Proscris" involved in semi legal activities like adventuring. There is a multitude of small corporations in Bulzan responsible to a specific sector of activity. These corporations are all involved to diverse degrees in the politics of the country. However, since some of them only regroup a few dozens of people and other may represent thousands of members, corporations usually regroups in fronts called "Frunte". These "Frunte" normally regroups corporations with similar interests or political goals, they are not as tightly knit than corporations, so it is not rare that tactical alliances are made between corporations of different or even antagonist fronts. There have been 6 traditional "Frunte" in the Bulzanian society: The "Armata" (military): This "Frunte" regroups the military and administrative corporations of Bulzan. Historically, it has represented the interests of both the military and civil servants of the central states. However, in times of strong political power, when the military was less needed, or when the military corporations were detached from the state (as mercenary), this "Frunte" have proved to be divided by conflicting interests. Actually, the Huleans have been able to co-opt most of the corporations represented by this front. The "Sectar" (religious sects): This "Frunte" is more a useful grouping that the Bulzanians use to do than a front in itself since, throughout most of the Bulzanian history, the religious groups were opposed and looking for allies in other corporation to increase their power over the Bulzanian society. Nowadays, some Bulzanian sects are allied with the Hagyarchy as other are outlawed, however, none (except, of course, the Bulzanian Temple of Chaos) as real power in the Hulean dominated society The "Voivod" (Landowners): this front represents several regional corporations of rural landowners, it is a real power in the Bulzanian society as they give much of the jobs and taxes in Bulzan. This front is responsible for the annexation of Bulzan by the Master's empire since they decided, in 732AC, to pay their taxes to Greatrealm instead of Miriestiu, thus leaving the militaries without any resources. The "Mestesugar" (Craftsmen): this is one of the biggest corporation union in Bulzan for its number of members. It regroups all kind of craft industry and, thus, is the real power in Bulzanian cities. The corporations it represents could be as disparate as the Carpenter Corporation and the Rockwater marshes Fishers Corporation. At first opposed to the Hulean invasion they have accepted to live with it as long as the Master's doesn't intervene too much in the council decision process. The merchants' (Negustor) corporation is usually allied with this "Frunte", however, since Hule has closed the Converted Lands frontiers with the outer world the merchants are somewhat in opposition with the front's policy to accept the Hulean control. The Shadow Corporations (Umbrar): Although, this "Frunte" doesn't have recognition from the others, it is a well-known secret that the criminal corporations active throughout the country have an important weight in the political process in the Bulzanian council. They ordinarily do so by bribing the other corporations' delegates to the council. The "Generos" (liberal professions): this is probably the weakest "Frunte" in Bulzan since it regroups only a few dozens members in corporation like the academicians' corporation, the judges' guild or the Magicians' syndicate. However, since they provide most of the civil intelligentsia, their influence over the council tends to be bigger than their handful number of members would let think. The different Bulzanian corporations and fronts interact in the Council, a centuries-old political institution. Even though the council has sometimes been abolished when a single corporation (usually of military or religious origin) was strong enough to hold to power without the help of other corporations, the council has been a regular political manifestation of the Bulzanian society. In the council every corporation is supposed to be equal, but at some point of the Bulzanian history some corporation have held far more power than the others have. This evolving balance of power have led to various type of government in Bulzan: there have been times were a single corporation held so much power that it was able to impose it's will to the council (resulting in Monarchy, when the civil or military servants of the states were in control; in theocracy when a sect was able to impose its view over the council; and even in plutocracy, at times when the merchants or landlords were in power); other part of the Bulzanian history have been characterized by an oligarchic system (when few corporations were allied to manage the country; finally, the council sometimes gave way to some kind of limited democracy when all the forces were balanced. The current political system is of oligarchic essence as the craftsmen and landlords corporations hold much of the weight in the council with the support of the civil servants, the traditional religious or military counterweight being inhibited by the Hulean domination of the country. However, the landlords and craftsmen aren't in a position of complete oligarchy since the Master's delegate to the Bulzanian council can veto any law or rules adopted by the council. The council is made of a varying number of delegates (the maximum number was reached in the fifth century BC when the council is said to have counted more than five hundred delegates, currently the council counts 125 members). Each corporation is represented proportionally of its number of members or elections of delegates take place inside the different "Frunte" History: the history of the Bulzanians can be traced back as far as the Blackmoorian culture zenith. It is during these times of widespread technology and magic that was founded the colony of Yazak by settlers from Blackmoor and Thonia. When the Great Rain of fire destroyed these ancient civilizations, Yazak was miraculously saved by its remote localization at the edge of the Arctic Circle. As a matter of fact, Yazak even profited from this cataclysm as the Mystaran axis shift brought it to more temperate regions. However, since Yazak was totally dependent on Blackmoor for its technology, the colony rapidly fell back to some kind of Iron Age. For more than two millenium the city thrived and expanded it's influence across most of the region that is now known as the Savage Coast: new settlements are founded nearby, colonies are developed in the Bylot Hills where rare minerals can be found and cooperation with the neighboring post-Oltec and Neathar tribes expands. This golden age of the Yazak civilization will be abruptly put to an end after the repeated humanoid invasions of the late eighteen century BC that preceded the cataclysmic earthquakes that rocked the region in response to the activation of a powerful Blackmoorian device in faraway Glantri. During the ensuing decades, survivors of the Yazak civilization migrated to the dense Midland forest where they found shelter from the humanoids among the woodland folks (elves, centaurs, and fairies). There they learned how to revere the woodland creatures and how to exploit the riches of the forming Rockwater. As new waves of refugees arrived in the valleys bordering the edge of the great forest however, keepers of the Yazak customs preferred to reject the forest cults for an agrarian pantheon and decided to found new agriculture-based communities. The first human civilization encountered by the Bulzanian at that moment were the people of Antasyn, which were in fact the long-lost cousins of the Bylot colonies. These first encounter wasn't peaceful since, at that moment, the Antasynians were dominated by beastmen rulers and because both people were competing for the same fertile valleys and hunting grounds. When the Antasynians rejected their beastmen tyrants, they were military expelled in the lands of the Bulzanians which quickly organized a military force able to resist and defeat the beastmen and, in the end, to conquer the Antasynians' lands in 1619BC. Vasile Serbanescu, a village chief, was the instigator of the united Bulzanian resistance and the head of the militias that annexed Antasynian, he is designated king of Bulzan by the other villages leaders as a reward for these great achievements. It is under his rule and the rule of his heirs that the current socio-political structures of Bulzan will be forged. The first corporation to appears will be his own: the state servants' corporation, which will be rapidly followed by the military organization and some city-based craftsmen corporation. However, at this epoch, the counselors are only there to provide the king with military or economic advice and don't own any intrinsic power. This social organization will be able to transcend the cleavage between the Antasynians and the Bulzanian and will proved itself to be superior to the Hulean kingdoms when, in 1502BC, the Bulzano-Antasynian Kingdom will invade the kingdom of Kuliye in the southwestern part of the Great Valley. The rise of the Bulzano-Antasynian Kingdom will reach its climax during the fortieth century BC after the decisive victory of 1391BC over the humanoids of the Yazak Steppes. However the growing complexity of the Bulzanian administration and multiplying conflicts between the king and the corporations will weaken the kingdom on the eve of a new influx of humanoids. Thus, in 1300BC, when the hordes of Wogar arrive in the region, they find a divided country and easily conquer the Bulzanian heartland, leaving the northern Antasynian forests free of their former masters. The humanoid domination of Bulzan won't last very long albeit: in 1245BC, a rebellion led by Anton Lupescu, will bring them out of Bulzan and the monarchy will be reestablish, although the corporations will demand more power to be given to the council. If the humanoid domination over Bulzan was short, this new period of independence will be too: engaged in a conflict to regain control over the Antasynians, in 1212BC, the Bulzanians will face a new threat in the form of a unified Hule asked for help by the king of Antasyn. In 1142BC, Bulzan will be integrated in the first Hulean Empire after decades of resistance. The iron hand of the Hagyarchy will only be challenge in 890BC when religious restriction will push most of the Bulzanians into open revolt against the Empire. It is during this first period of Hulean domination that the Temple of Chaos is first introduced in Bulzan. In 702BC, the Hulean military administration of Bulzan, under the direction of Mehmet Kasparoglü, decides to secede from the crumbling empire. The Bulzanian land is given to his closest lieutenants, they will be allowed to regroup into a political union but are forbidden to operate autonomous armies. To avoid unrest in the Bulzanian population, the new administration accepts to grant to the other religious congregations, a political status equal to the one the Temple of Chaos already own: the right to incorporate themselves and to send delegates to a new council. Twenty years later, the old Church of Bulzan (the agrarian pantheon, and the biggest Bulzanian sect) is accepted as a new pantheon, from this time this sect will be called "the Patriarchs" since the delegates they will send to the Council will only be the oldest clerics of this faith. The eroding power of the military administration over the Council will force the abdication of the Hulean dynasty in 578BC. The new head of the council is called the regent and is elected among the members of the council for a 3 years term. In 515BC, after 45 years of growing influence and corruption among the member of the council the (regent) is, for the first time, chosen among the Patriarchs delegates notwithstanding strong opposition from the other religious corporations. In 509BC, the Church of Bulzan is erected as the national faith; the other sects are striped of their corporate title. In response to the religious takeover of the council, a new sect named the People's temple begins to advocate the end of the Patriarchs' power, the end of the corporate system and the democratic designation of the Council. From 497BC to 474 the adherents to this new politico-religious group will rapidly grow in number recruiting mainly in the dissatisfied "Proscris" of the campaigns and cities but also in the ranks of the craftsmen corporation among the young generation eager to choose their own life. In 473BC, after weeks of mass protest and the public support given to the People's Temple by the craftsmen and scholars fronts, the Patriarchs, backed by the Landlords Association, will ask the military corporations to put an end to the civil disorder. A divided Bulzanian will thus be engulfed in a 75 years long civil war, at the end of which the conservative forces will keep their privileges. After the 10 months long siege of Chetniu, which tolled the bell of the progressive forces, the Patriarchs are able to consolidate their power in an oligarchy of three regrouping the military and the landlords. The growing land owned by the Patriarchs and the forming of religious militia will undermine the cohesion of this alliance. Facing growing discontent among the landlords over territory issues and having lost important military operations against the humanoids of the Yazak Steppes are answered by the dissolution of the Council (in 342BC) and the abolition of the national army. Soldiers and officers are forced to join the ranks of the Patriarchs militia or to choose the mercenary life. Unfortunately for Bulzan, the Patriarchs won't be able to keep the country in order, as they will sink into intestine disputes, the mercenary bands will evolve in open banditism, leaving the country to chaos. Profiting of the Bulzanian chaos, the Hulean armies, helped by their Yazak allies, invade Bulzan in 199BC; there they met little or no resistance and are even cheered in some part of the country as they put a halt to the widespread banditism. The Patriarchs are left with most of their privileges, since their internal divisions impede them of being a real threat to the Hulean control of the country but the religious paramilitary are disbanded. As the Patriarchs continue to sink into their disputes, the Temple of Chaos rise in power thanks for the help of the new administration and for the influx of new Hulean settlers. Meanwhile, as the influence of the Temple of Chaos grows in the Bulzanian society, the Patriarchs will slowly overcome their divisions and unite with other sect to counter this new threat. From 20BC to 38BC, the challenge posed by the rise in importance of the Temple of Chaos and the response of the other Bulzanian sects will erupt into a full-fledge religious revolt against Hule and the Holy Men. Trying to end the religious conflict, the Hulean authorities will forge an alliance with the other segments of the Bulzanian society by taking away the political power wielded by the religious sects and by creating a new council made of representatives of the civil corporations. This move will prove to be benefic to the Hulean administration as the revolts slowly settle down because the Bulzanian civil society gets its traditional structures of power back. The following two centuries were marked by prosperity under an effaced Hulean domination represented by the corporation's rule. This period of peace and prosperity will give place to discontent from 231AC to 291AC. The problems mainly derived from the war that takes place between the Hulean Empire and the Crystal Pact. Even though this war doesn't affect directly the Bulzanian region, the growing need for founds to finance the war will pressurize the Bulzanian economy to the point that the locals will revolts against the increasing taxes. Even worst for the Hulean Empire, missionaries of the Loyal Brotherhood sent by the Crystal Pact will found in 256AC a new sect in Bulzan and attract dozen of Bulzanians. As Hule is slowly loosing it's war against the Crystal Pact, the ranks of the new sect will swell with new adherents until 292AC when Cyril Zayetscu, a follower of the Way of the Law, will trigger an uprising that will easily defeat the crumbling Hulean army. As the new Bulzanian army win over the former allies of Hule, the Yazak humanoids, in 297AC, Cyril Zayetscu is crowned King of the Bulzans and a new Council open to all type of corporations is formed. In the ensuing years, the Patriarchs will try to regain their influence in the Council in a struggle against the Lawful Brotherhood. They will finally win in 334AC when Zayetscu's grandson will adopt the Patriarchs' faith. Both as the Patriarchs' power in the Council is reinforced and as the civil servants' corporation is pushed to the margin of the political spectrum, corruption will become widespread in all the state's apparatus and will lead to the paralysis of the Council. From 454AC to 512AC, waves of Traladaran migrants will arrive in the southern Bulzanian province of Valkhia. With them will come the Church of Traladara, which will be at first accepted as a new sect among others. But, as its number of followers will grow in the Bulzanian population, the King of Bulzan, Adrian II, and some corporations will welcome this new faith as a mean to counterbalance the Patriarchs' control over the Council. Adrian II dies mysteriously in 514AC without an heir to take his place, politico-religious struggles among the divided Council lead to the abolition of the kingdom. The King's army is disbanded, and the military corporations transform themselves into mercenary units. The followers of the Church of Traladara installed in the southern province will use this period of disorganization to revolt and establish a new kingdom, Olgar, out of Bulzanian lands. In 527AC, an army made of the Patriarchs' paramilitaries and mercenaries financed by the landlords will be defeated by Milko Levtsky's militia during the siege of the Castle Venestiu, the Patriarchs' stronghold in southern Bulzan. This defeat opens an era of chaos in Bulzan. The lost of the rich and religious southern province will force a realignment of the forces at the Council between those who want large-scale retaliations against the Olgarian insurgents and those who want peace and the development of economic relations with the new country. During this period the council will only serve as a tribune of the different factions' disputes thus becoming an ineffective legal body. Its power will further erode as the disputes will extend beyond the strict political arena into street fights and even into open military actions between the factions' paramilitary units. The division of the Bulzanian forces is so deep that no one is able to react to the Master's Greatrealm Declaration of 651AC. And, when a dispute over woodcutting rights at the fringe of the Dark Wood arise between Hule and the Woodcutters Corporation, no unified Bulzanian army will be able to face the Master's troops. Nevertheless, the Hulean troops will have a hard time against the Bulzanian population and corporations unwilling to abdicate their independence. So, it is only when the Landlords and Craftsmen accept to send their taxes to Greatrealm in 732AC that the resistance will be finally crushed. A new council will be established during the following year, a council in which the Landlords and the crafts-oriented corporations will have the upper hand. Since the designation of the new council, Bulzan has been mainly peaceful. Some corporations hostile to the Master are still trying to stir the discontent of the Bulzanians, but most of them recognize that the Hulean administration have been discreet and that the current council have been able to bring stability and prosperity into the Bulzanian lands. Religion: The religious landscape of Bulzan is one of the most diversified west of Sind. No religion as been able to establish its cult over the entire population. Instead numerous sect cohabit in the population. Normally, a given Bulzanian will only follow the teachings of one of the sects, but it is not rare to see someone change its obedience more than once in a lifetime. This somewhat original religious behavior is thought to come all the way back to the times of the Blackmoorian Yazak colony when numerous religious and philosophical believes were observed without one being superior to the others. The Bulzanian society has also been traditionally open to alien religious influence as every new cult is accepted as a new sect among others. Each sect has its own pantheon and, sometimes, the same immortal may be revered by people of different sect under different names. The agrarian cult of the Patriarchs is the predominant cult among the Bulzanian population, however, it never have been able to impose itself over the other faiths for more than a few year in a row. Every faith with more than 5oo followers can claim the title of a corporation, which provides it with the right to send delegates to the Council. Here is a short list of the Bulzanian religious corporation in order of importance: The Patriarchs: also named the Church of Bulzan or the Agrarian Faith the Patriarchs' corporation is the biggest faith in Bulzan and one of the oldest. It is characterized by the emphasis put on the respect due to elders and the acceptance of the fatalities that life brings upon everyone. The Cult of the Builders: This is a genuine urban Bulzanian cult dedicated to the immortals that favor creative activities, crafts or arts. Most of the followers of this sect are found in the craftsmen corporations. The Woodland Cult: this is one of the oldest sects of Bulzan. Its followers are found particularly in forested areas and around Rockwater. It reveres the woodland creatures and seeks a perfect integration of the human society with the nature. The Temple of Chaos: Brought into Bulzan by Hulean settlers and armies, this faith is important among the Hulean population of Bulzan and in the criminal organizations throughout the country. The Way of the Law: Brought in by wandering missionaries from the Northern Plains and by Sardjik merchants, this cult has the favor of some city-dwellers mainly in the administrative circles and of the semi-nomadic Bulzanian communities of the Yazak Steppes border. The followers of the Way of the Law and of the Temple of Chaos are always opposed in, sometime violent, conflicts The People's Temple: this sect is dedicated to the goal of establishing more equality in the Bulzanian society. It encourages learning as a mean of political emancipation and the end of the strict corporate system. It is particularly active when it comes to help the poorest Bulzanian. It is sometimes found in the Dasarian's shelters educating people. Many Bulzanian scholars are part of this sect. The Church of Traladara: Found mainly in southern Bulzan, this faith was brought by the Traladaran settlers during the fifth century AC. Its tolerance and the belief of a Golden Age to come over the Traladarans and their allies characterize it. Since 983 AC, when the troubles initiated by the Church of Traladara in Olgar were quelled, the Church of Traladara is also outlawed in Bulzan. The Dasarian: This philosophy comes from a now semi-extinct western civilization. It seeks the ultimate victory of the Good against the evil forces. This is a minor cult in Bulzan but it provides shelter and care for the poorest Bulzanians. It is particularly opposed to the Fiendish Cult. The Fiendish Cult: This sect would probably be hunted down in many other society as its followers put their faith into the hands of the worst immortal creatures, but in the Bulzanian society they are seen as a part of the natural balance of the world as long as they do not bring to much destruction. This sect finds its roots in the fiends believing tribes that once traded and conflicted with the Yazak cities. Notable sites: The city of Miriestiu is the historical capital of Bulzan, it is also the biggest and the richest city of the converted lands. Miriestiu is build atop a steep cliff where the Ostrito River drops in the Dinretul 75 meters below. The most impressive parts of the city are the Council neighborhood, the Market and the university quarter. The quarter surrounding the massive granite building of the Council is dotted with the official representation of the Bulzanian corporations. All of these official buildings are made in a way to represent in the best of their corporation. It is there that you can find the biggest temples of all Bulzan, you can also see the best realization of all the corporations: the Carpenter Hall is some kind of airy cathedral made entirely of wood, the Sculptors Guild is a tower in which every stone is sculpted in a way to represent the entire history of Bulzan, the Engineers Mansion is a massive round building rotating around a central axe with its main door always indicating the hours on a paved clock. The Market is Miriestiu's most populous area, there you can find the exquisite Bulzanian productions, be it automatons, clocks, fine cloth, jewels, artwork, etc. The Market is also the place where the sects try to recruit new member, there always is somebody standing on a box or a chair trying to attract the attention of the population on its cult's believes or perpetrating miracles of any sorts. The University is also a major attraction of the city. It is a succession of big towers harboring the different fields of study where the courses are given in the lower floors and the scholars and libraries lie in the upper parts. The city in itself is renown for its granite buildings topped by copper roofs. Chetniu, Bulzan second most populated city, is built among a hilly landscape. It is renown for it's numerous thermal sources of supposedly miraculous properties. Beside this, Chetniu is an agreeable city to live in even though its municipal council is always in conflict with the neighboring landlords. It is not so rare to see centaurs and other woodland beings in this city. Dishinau, the capital of the province of Bradjina, is probably Bulzan worst place to live: located at the edge of Rockwater this a humid city infested by mosquitoes and always under the threat of being attacked by the trolls. There, people are among the poorest of all Bulzan as they thrive to survive in this harsh environment and toiled to ripe the Rockwater's riches. Many people of Dishinau are the descents of the Huleans and Bulzanians that where expelled from the Janizary Lands following the Greatrealm Declaration. The Vrancea and Lotev Hills are the home of some giants they also are a good protection against the raiding goblins from the Yazak Steppes. The Vrancea Basin at the center is the home of most of the semi-nomadic Bulzanian population. The Vrancea hills are also supposed to be the hideouts of powerful undeads. The Lotev Hills harbor most of the Bulzanians opposed to the Hulean domination; there they can count on the help of the Olgarian insurgents. Also located in the Lotev Hills is the dark tower of Sorin Cardei, a powerful and secretive wizard, which even the Master prefers not to bother. The Mastrisei Hills and the Chetniu forest are protected lands where some of the Woodland Folk displaced of the Darkwood by the Master are trying to revive the woodland way of life. Centaurs, fauns, pixies and small communities of fairies can be found there. They generally live in peace with the surrounding human community and are more open to human than much of their likes on Mystara. - ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BED17C.FE96D400 Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-ID: <003401bed19e$8586e240$5cb7d084@conc01077505> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== - ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01BED17C.FE96D400-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #298 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #299 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Monday, July 19 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 299 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 10 [MYSTARA] - Bulzanian Sects [MYSTARA] - nightmare and entropy [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, Part 5 *SPOILER* [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:25:07 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Hulean Correspondence 10 Miriestiu, Flaurmont 14, AC 1010 Dear old friend, Finally, going to the different churches in a quest to get some more information about Hule and the Master wasn't such a good idea. First, I wasn't allowed in their library: you should be a member of the religious corporation (in other words, a priest of that order) to have access to the books. Second, most of the sects' members preferred not to talk about the Master. Even the Temple of Chaos' followers remain silent when asked about the Master. And, third, I have been afraid that, by asking too many questions, I would wake up the suspicion of the Master's agents in Miriestiu. As a matter of fact, I think that I have been followed for a while during today's investigations… Well, a well-placed Invisibility spell can always do a good job. Out of despair, I was heading back to our small room to ready my belongings when I stopped to help an old beggar with a small piece. At my great surprise, he addressed me in the Slagovitch's dialect! Even though he was blind, he had recognized the origin of the given piece. He asked me for news about the city, told me that he came from there years ago in a quest to find an old Traladaran relic, and got wounded while fighting a group of goblins led by a Hulean magic user. But, he told me that the streets were talking to him, and that was quite interesting. He told me that a great peril was waiting to fall on the City-States and that, this time, Hule was to be victorious. I have been quite afraid by this terrible prophecy. And I beg you, my old friend, if you could send a messenger to my friend in Slagovitch and warn them of the risk of an imminent Hulean attack. I have no other way to reach than through your help. I know that you won't fail me and I thank you in advance. I will keep you informed of my future discoveries, but just send me a reply by my instant messenger (just put it in the box I've given you) to tell me if you have been able to find someone to undertake this quest. Your friend, Zoran Dragovic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:26:00 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bulzanian Sects This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BED17D.4723D380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Bulzanian Sects The Patriarchs (Church of Bulzan, the Agrarian Faith) The Patriarchs' order is the biggest faith in Bulzan and one of the oldest. Its main aim is the respect of the old Bulzanian ways and the development of the Bulzanian nation through procreation, colonization and war. Its ultimate goal would be to revive the power that represented Bulzan during the fourteenth century BC. The Patriarchs diffuse a philosophy of respect to the elder and they encourage the cult of the ancestors. They consider that all people should be able to increase their happiness through hard work and the respect of the established institutions. For them, the only way for somebody to grow is to confront the obstacles that are always sown in the way to happiness. People must accept these obstacles and try to succeed by their own means without looking for exterior help. The Patriarchs believe that religion is so important in everybody's life that it should have a bigger place for it in the Bulzanian politics. They disregard the other sects as being a decoy bringing the Bulzanians out of the rightful path and so they are in conflict with most of the other sects. Immortals revered: - Dazhbog (Ixion) - Perun (Odin) - Gozhar (Razud) - Taras (Tarastia) - Matka (Terra) - Jarila (Valeria) - Forsetta -Dzarovit (Thor) -Striborg (Cretia) Delegates to the council: Dragos Iorgan (C28, of Razud), Tibor Mazilu (C25, of Odin) and Felicia Torok (C18, of Terra) The Cult of the Builders (the Craftsmen Church) This is a genuine urban Bulzanian cult dedicated to the immortals that favor creative activities, crafts or arts. Most of the followers of this sect are found in the craftsmen corporations. Its philosophy strongly supports creative activities and sees creation as the only way to avoid living an absurd and meaningless life. Creation is seen as a divine act that bring the humans closer to the immortal and even provide them with a part of immortality as their creation will survive their mortal end. This cult is animated by the idea that if all people from around the world create only one thing in their life the human race will regain their long-lost demigod status [a reference to the technological age of Blackmoor]. The Cult of the Builders is strongly opposed to all chaotic or evil faith that may seek to destroy or alter any kind of creation. Immortals revered: - Steriag (Asterius) - Svarog (Kagyar) - Svarozhic (Rathanos) - Karzelek (Garl) - Weles (Tiresias) - Doregar (12 Watchers) - Palarok (Palartarkan) Delegates to the council: Steliana Kobori (C25, of the 12 Watchers), Emil Vulpes (C21, of Tiresias) and Virgil Toda (C16, of Kagyar) The Woodland Cult (The Way of Nature, the Forest Church) This is one of the oldest sects of Bulzan. Its followers are found particularly in forested areas and around Rockwater. Followers of the Forest Church put a particular importance on the preservation of the forests and of their inhabitants. The sect philosophy enjoins to live in a way that will not disrupt the balance between man and nature. It is seen as a pacific Church as war is seen as threat toward nature. However, its followers are ready to fight to protect the forests. This sect is secretly opposed to the Master as it sees his Greatrealm declaration as the first step toward the destruction of the great forest of Niwhelm (the Dark Wood). It is also somewhat opposed to the Patriarchs and the Cult of the Builders as those two faiths represent for them a threat to the balance between men and nature. Immortals revered: - Bilbog (Djaea) - Yarilo (Faunus) - Svaroz (Ka) - Simargl (Ordana) - Mati (Terra) - Simorg (Zirchev) - Chiron - Lado (Frey)/ Lada (Freyja) Delegates to the council: Mattias Dobre (C27, of Ordana), Tibor Bojin (C24, of Zirchev) and Zaharia Osadci (C17, of Djaea) The Temple of Chaos Brought into Bulzan by Hulean settlers and armies, this faith is important among the Hulean population of Bulzan and in the criminal organizations throughout the country. This faith is in open conflict with the Way of the Law. It is also opposed to the Fiendish Cult as it seeks to take the latter place in the Bulzanian society. The relation with the Patriarchs is also quite tense. (See James Mischler's a.k.a. Mystaros work for more details). Immortals revered: - Bozdogan (Loki) - Yalamenek (Masauwu) - Savashan (Orcus) - Veleketer (Alphaks) - Eylenmek (Faunus) - Yazibali (Talitha) - Buyulome (Thanatos) - Guzelik (Pearl) Delegates to the council: Dilara Kazaz (C22, of Loki), Ekber "The Choleric" Nursel (C22, of Alphak) and Harika Lacusta (C17, of Talitha) The Way of the Law Brought in by wandering missionaries from the Northern Plains and by Sardjik merchants, this cult has the favor of some city-dwellers mainly in the administrative circles and of the semi-nomadic Bulzanian communities of the Yazak Steppes border. The followers of the Way of the Law and of the Temple of Chaos are always opposed in, sometime violent, conflicts. (More details to come) Immortals revered: - Odin - Thor - Terra - Frey - Ka - Diamond - Freyja - Ostara Delegates to the council: Magda Beklea (C20, of Freyja) and Vlad Mazilu (C18, of Odin) The People's Temple (The Church of the Scriptures) This sect is dedicated to the goal of establishing more equality in the Bulzanian society. It encourages learning as a mean of political emancipation and the end of the strict corporate system. It is particularly active when it comes to help the poorest Bulzanian and it is sometimes found in the Dasarian's shelters educating people. For them everybody is equal at birth and should have the equal chance to develop through learning. For the followers of this sect, the only thing that distinguishes the sentient races from the animals is their capacity to learn. The ultimate goal of life for this religion is to add to the world knowledge by one's experiences, studies or achievements. Many Bulzanian scholars are part of this sect. This sect is opposed to the forces of conservatism in the Bulzanian society, be it the Patriarchs or the Corporations. It has good relation with the forces that seek to help the poor and the Bulzanian "Proscris" as the Dasarians. Immortals revered: - Dodola (Diulanna) - Bilbog (Djaea) - Swaroz (Ka) - Khoron (Khoronus) - Volos (Koryis) - Taras (Tarastia) - Dvorov (Ssu-Ma) Delegates to the council: Mihas Grul (C22, of Ssu-Ma) and Adelina Ilie (M19) The Church of Traladara Found mainly in southern Bulzan, this faith was brought by the Traladaran settlers during the fifth century AC. Its tolerance and the belief of a Golden Age to come over the Traladarans and their allies characterize it. Since 983 AC, when the troubles initiated by the Church of Traladara in Olgar were quelled, the Church of Traladara is also outlawed in Bulzan. (For more details see GAZ1 or The Olgarian Levtja entry) Immortals revered: - Halav - Petra - Zirchev The Dasarian This philosophy comes from a now semi-extinct western civilization. It seeks the ultimate victory of the Good against the evil forces. This is a minor cult in Bulzan but it provides shelter and care for the poorest Bulzanians. It is particularly opposed to the Fiendish Cult. (More details to come) Immortals revered: - Chardastes - Tarastia - Patura - Terra Delegate to the council: Janos Troester (C19, of Chardastes) The Fiendish Cult This sect would probably be hunted down in many other societies as its followers put their faith into the hands of the worst immortal creatures. But, in the Bulzanian society, they are seen as a part of the natural balance of the world as long as they do not bring to much destruction. This sect finds its roots in the fiends believing tribes that once traded and conflicted with the Yazak cities. It is dedicated to the goal of destroying all living things. It despised everything that may extend the reign of the living over the world. Their philosophy is somewhat nihilistic as it looks forward to the destruction of everything as a legitimate life goal. Usually this sect is torn apart by intestine rivalry, but, since a cleric of Swiatonid (Atzanteotl) is at the head of the sect, their approach is more methodical and clever. Immortals revered: - Swiatonid (Atzanteotl) - Baba Jaga (Nyx) - Triglav (Demogorgon) - Chernobog (Bartziluth) - Rugievit (Bagni) - Leptar Delegate to the council: Aurel Paraska (C23, of Atzanteotl) - ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BED17D.4723D380 Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-ID: <004401bed19e$ce24aaa0$5cb7d084@conc01077505> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== - ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BED17D.4723D380-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 09:31:07 PDT From: "Herve Musseau" Subject: [MYSTARA] - nightmare and entropy Yes you're right Sharon, the issue at hand is not negative time but negative entropy, as you formulated from my not-so-clear post. The confusion orginated from the way the idea came to me, and from the fact that I wrote as I was further elaborating... Basically the idea came from the fact that IRL we know the opposite of everything that comes from the quantic equations (antiparticules etc), except for the time variable (though there is nothing in the equation that would prevent time from flowing backwards and still give a solution, we just don't know if it's actually possible and have no way of seeing it). [Quantum physicists will correct me if I'm wrong.] Thus as you were introducing the Nightmare dimension as a mirror to the Normal one, and since it introduced the question of which one appeared first, I wondered, what if we complete the mirror analogy and have the time flow in opposite directions as well? Since we can hardly imagine time flowing backwards, the correct analogy should have been to have reversed thermodynamics as you noted, and which is actually what I ended up describing; albeit in a confused way (probably because it wasn't clear in my head - thanks for helping clearing this up). Thus the Nightmare dimension would be one where entropy can only decrease (delta S < 0) with time, making law the evil yet ground-gaining sphere. What would life be like under such laws of thermodynamics? Certainly, very different. Everything should happen with a negative entropic delta. That'd explain the blackflame theory posted a few weeks ago. What does it mean to the various races native to the Nightmare dimension? Well, for them it means they started at a peak (golden age, really), and are devolving. In such a world, babies would probably be born with all knowlegde of their genitors, passed down genetically, but they would tend to forget as they mature (like senility, just starting at birth). As each generation procreates at a mature age, there is a global loss with each passing generation. It doesn't mean that there would be no teaching in such a society, as masters would teach to those who would have forgotten (or whose forefathers had forgotten and thus never passed the knowlegde down the line), but overall the society would be in decline. Until the moment where they would be unable to even survive in their world and would die out. Those most capable of withstanding the devolution would be the simpler forms of life, so that the most evolved forms of life (the equivalent of humans who appear last in a dimension in evolution) would be the first to die while the simpler bacterias or unicellular lifeforms would remain last. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 13:17:24 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Arminath's Tomb Journal, Part 5 *SPOILER* PART 5 - 6/27/99 Entry 9 The journey back to Halag was worse than when we had left. I'll not recount it here, but it will suffice to say that should I ever have the power to destroy the unliving, then they shall be no more. Gunther is a formidible warrior and impressed Targus several times with his great axe he calls 'Elsie'. The weapon is powerfully enchanted, and bears even stronger enchantments when used against the unliving...a very useful weapon indeed. I have to admit privately though, the first time we got into battle whilst traveling back to Halag I was nearly killed by a lowly skeleton. Gunther hefted his axe and screamed "Make them little bits Elsie!" as I was drawing my blade to attack a nearby skeleton. I began laughing so hard that I threw my blade and proceeded to dodge into one of the unliving warrior's thrusts. Unable to get its blade out of me, the foul thing began raking me with its bony fingers. I thought my life was near its end, with this old blade run clear through my body and its owner clawing me to shreads. Anna finally got to me, nearly too late. It had to be a human that enchanted the axe, for no elf, or even a dwarf for that matter, wouldst curse a worthy weapon such as that with the name 'Elsie'. Human humor is twisted. We tried to spend a quiet night in Halag, but to no avail. An upstart elf that I missed spotting whilst approaching town immediately challenged me to a duel of magical wits. I accepted so long as concession would be acceptable for victory, so as not to have to resort to killing her. We cast prepatory magic as the others cleared the area, then let loose against each other. In quick succession she cast lightning bolts, magical missiles, some sort of blast spell, and a few other, more exotic magics that even I couldn't identify. I, for my part, only cast 1 spell the entire time; the Wychlamp's Aura. Every magic that came at me was deflected or negated. I just waved my arms about and uttered fragments of incantations in order to look like I was doing actual work. This elf was powerful, but must have been book taught by her mentor; she threw everything she knew without regard for any others that may have been caught in a backblast or miscasting. She finally ran out of spells and was forced to concede when I cast a minor magecraft spell and tweaked her backside, proving I still had magic left to battle with. She left in a huff. The rest of the night was uneventful as far as real threats are concerned. In my dreams though, I was pursued by a pair of red eyes. Why am I being hounded even in my dreams over this? Why does not my patroness guide me through this? I pray, but yet she no longer answers. I feel so alone now, on this fool's mission. An aging elf looking to find the fire of his own youth...by the serpent's tongue I sound like a human! Entry 10 In the morn we let Gunther lead us the his 'pretty lady'. He led us out of town about a mile to a small, unassuming hovel. A ancient woman answered our calls, demanding to know why her peace hath been disturbed. When she opened her door and saw Gunther she cracked a small smile and apologized as she hugged the gigantic man. Something about this haggered woman was familiar, but the recognition wasn't there. After allowing her and Gunther the satisfaction of catching up, Anna introduced us. The old woman's name was Sather Uth'Marl...The High Priestess of Valerias! It was through her that Valerias allowed my wife to become mortal for my lifetime! And through her that our daughter had become ordained in the priesthood of Valerias as well! At that time she was a vibrant woman in her late 20 years. Now she appeared to be in her late 120 years, over twice her natural age it seems. When she learned of our intent to enter the tomb, she said little else, but gave us a Journal that Verath kept during their failed foray. The more we questioned her, the more she retreated, until she finally had a nervous breakdown, trembling and screaming to make the voices of the fallen stop! Gunther told us to stop hurting his friend and leave. Unable to set right the damage we had inadvertantly done, we turned to go. Sather stopped us and uttered a final warning: "The tomb is a trap for the heroic, Arminath...if it doesn't kill you and yours outright, it will destroy your hope, then your vitality, and finally, your faith. What enters never returns." I finally realized there were no holy objects to Valerias, or any other immortal at all to be seen about...this bodes ill indeed. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:35:57 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West I'm looking for any references about dragons in the region west of Darokin (Sind, Hule, Savage Coast, etc.) to build a Who's Who Among Dragons of the Western Lands. Any recommendations of official TSR products talking about the topic or any personal creations would be welcomed. Thanks! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:23:26 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Christian, Didn't Bruce Heard write an article in Dragon Magazien detailing the Dragons of Mystara by Bruce Heard? Matt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Author: gf691805 (gf691805@er.uqam.ca) at unix,mime Date: 7/19/99 6:35 PM I'm looking for any references about dragons in the region west of Darokin (Sind, Hule, Savage Coast, etc.) to build a Who's Who Among Dragons of the Western Lands. Any recommendations of official TSR products talking about the topic or any personal creations would be welcomed. Thanks! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:43:34 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West I think it was published on tsr site among other articles which were made available.i think it was who's who among dragons.But there was just two big dragons in the west (pyre , and a blue dragon in the desert of sind). by the way i am currently mapping Hule (based on C.constantin work and also the map in the Champions of mystara but i would like your advices concerning the kind of desert sind is.Since there is a region called sand flats it's probably because the rest is maily a rocky desert.It means a lot to me to know what you think of it because the choice of the hex could ruin the all map (i mean its accuracy). thanks. Matthew.Wang@wdr.com a écrit: > Christian, > > Didn't Bruce Heard write an article in Dragon Magazien detailing the > Dragons of Mystara by Bruce Heard? > > Matt > > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West > Author: gf691805 (gf691805@er.uqam.ca) at unix,mime > Date: 7/19/99 6:35 PM > > I'm looking for any references about dragons in the region west of Darokin > (Sind, Hule, Savage Coast, etc.) to build a Who's Who Among Dragons of the > Western Lands. Any recommendations of official TSR products talking about > the topic or any personal creations would be welcomed. Thanks! > Christian "Krieg!" Constantin > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > This message contains confidential information and is intended only > for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please > notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this > e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. > > E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free > as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, > arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents > of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If > verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This > message is provided for informational purposes and should not be > construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or > related financial instruments. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:51:06 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Christian Constantin wrote: > I'm looking for any references about dragons in the region west of Darokin > (Sind, Hule, Savage Coast, etc.) to build a Who's Who Among Dragons of the > Western Lands. Any recommendations of official TSR products talking about > the topic or any personal creations would be welcomed. Thanks! > Christian "Krieg!" Constantin AFAIK, there arent too many dragons in the Savage Coast. There is ofcourse one on the Orcs Head peninsula. I seem to recall Galwylin making a blue dragon living in Hule...am i mixing this with something else? Hope that helps. good work on hule Christian :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:45:55 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West I finnaly found it on my computer. Who's Who Among Dragons by Bruce A. Heard In DRAGON issue #170, ancient secrets of the dragons in the D&D game world were revealed. But nothing was said about the major draconic personalities in the Known World. Unbeknownst to humankind, their home is the setting for a whole network of kingdoms a nd dominions ruled by dragons. The more important dragon kingdoms in the Known World are now revealed here, along with their rulers and their personality quirks. These are by no means the only realms of this nature. A multitude of other draconic states-some insignificant domains that a re vassals to other states, and others truly gigantic, sovereign empires- exist elsewhere in the D&D game world, but these are for you to sketch out. The borders of these dragon kingdoms are accurate as of 1000 AC (2000 AY). Almaruddya: The ruler is Marudi, a 14-HD blue dragon. His lair is located at the southernmost end of a rocky desert strip, near the center of the Emirates of Ylaruam. Marudi's territory covers a 40- mile radius, including the oasis of Hedjazi, his main wa tering point. Marudi's invisible lair is a typical Alasyian palace with a large throne room, except that it is guarded by lesser djinn. Marudi is a mischievous creature who enjoys fooling others, especially his foes. He is a master at illusions. When he sees a worthy victim for his pranks, he may cause his palace to appear as a small oasis. Marudi is likely to assume the shape of a desert prince or a rich merchant. His pranks, as annoying as they may be, are most often inoffensive except to true enemies. Marudi tends to underestimate his foes to the point of being outright cocky. Aside from his jovial habits, Marudi is a rather peaceful creature. The youngest among the Known World's huge dragons, he is 98 years old and particularly skillful as a thief amo ng humans and dragons. Marudi is the impudent son of Khanistar, described later. Amanthyr: The ruler is Amanth, a 19-HD red dragon. Amanthyr covers a great part of the Wendarian Reaches, a chain of mountains north of the Principalities of Glantri, separating the famous magocracy from the elven Kingdom of Wendan. Amanth's lair is locat ed on Mt. Amador, exactly 200 mites north of Glantri City. It opens on a cliff inside a narrow, hidden gorge guarded by a small army of wyverns. Amanthyr openly supports Druuwor, essentially to harass Ambur (both described later). Amanth is 332 years old and is almost blind. She uses magic, her sense of smell, and cunning to remain ahead of the pack. Amanth has mated twice, once with Ambur. She is very cautious and will avoid any confrontation she is not sure to win. Pride and jeal ousy are her only flaws. Amanth has but a few decades to live before she dies of old age. She has been seeking an opportunity to steal the ivory plume of Maat from Azem (see later) to complete one of her last attempts at attaining Immortality. Amanth still does not know where Azem hides the coveted artifact. She is contemplating the idea of making a pact with Entropy if her next attempt at Immortality fails. Amburyr: The ruler is Ambur, a 17-HD red dragon. Amburyr covers the Altan Tepes Mountains within Rockhome and the Dwarfgate Mountains separating Darokin from Ethengan. Ambur's lair is located in the ruins of Jhyrrad, 50 mites northwest of the City of Stah l. It occupies a large, dwarven-made hall under the city. The city is crawling with his followers, especially hobgoblins. Ambur is a young, successful dragon, merely 152 years old. Impulsive and bloodthirsty, he seeks to destroy whatever stands in his way. He uses fear and raw power to rule. Ambur has been relying on a greater talisman of elemental travel to surprise his foe s. Ambur will save this item until he is ready to attain Immortality. Ambur became a direct rival of Amanth after he mated with her. He also is an ally of Jargnir (see later) against Druuwor, whose mountain territory he covets. Akgosyl: The ruler is Argos, a 14-HD green dragon. Argosyl occupies the Dymrak Forest in Karameikos, on both sides of the Rugalov River. Argos' lair lies 48 miles north of Rugalov Village, in a cave under a small hill on the east side of the river. The dr agon must immerse himself completely in the Lake of Lost Dreams in order to reach the entrance. The forest is guarded by several tribes of wolf-riding goblins that have submitted to his rule. Argos is 148 years old. Very quiet, he always prefers stealth and trickery to violence. Argos' sphere of influence has spread steadily to the north, seeking to rally further humanoid tribes. Argos' worst enemy is Attura (see later), with whom he once atte mpted to mate. He was almost bound to her as a result but narrowly escaped. Argos fears Attura and has been seeking an alliance with Marudi in case of all-out aggression. Argos's flaw lies in his inability to make quick decisions. He hesitates and worries far too long for his own good. Other dragons taunt Argos by calling him Argos the Worrier. Atturamak: The ruler is Attura, a 16-HD green dragon. Atturamak covers the large forested area in the southern Atruaghin Clans. Attura's lair is located at the center of the forest, very deep underground. It has more than a dozen entrances, some as far as 80 miles away. These entrances are overgrown with vegetation or are protected with magic. A large part of her lair is sculpted in Azcan fashion, Attura is familiar with the Hollow World. Attura is 202 years old. She is a treacherous creature, quite skillful at politics among dragons or humans. She gained most of her power by tricking weaker dragons to come closer, then challenging them in order to bind them. She has never mated. She disli kes Argos for escaping her, and Azem for criticizing her evil ways. Attura currently plans on establishing her dominance over Thalkor (see later) to gain control over his lizard man army. She also was approached by a wizard, a follower of the Sphere of En ergy, who promised great wealth and increased magical power in exchange for her oath. Attura is a power-hungry fool and an unscrupulos beast, which presently puts her at risk becoming a puppet and follower of the Sphere of Energy. Azemur: The ruler is Azem, an 18-HD gold dragon. Azem's lair is located in the village of Wereskalot, in the Five Shires. Her territory covers an 80-mile radius. Her lair is no more than a small halfling cottage, but it is laced with powerful magic. It ac tually contains a gate to a pocket plane that is fully attuned to Azem's mind. This microdimension is bigger than a large cavern and physically responds to Azem's commands and moods. Azem appears to be a common looking, little old halfling lady. She appears as a very sweet person who loves growing flowers in her well-kept garden. She commonly has to leave the house to go sell her flowers in nearby villages. Three cats live in the hous e as her pets; they really are three shape-changed dragonnes bonded to Azem (see AC: Creature Catalogue, page 69). No other dragon knows of Azem's second identity. Azem is 323 years old. She keeps the ivory plume of Mast in her microdimensional lair. Azem has mated once and is on good terms with Marudi, whose constant irreverence amuses her. Khanistar and Azem respect each other. Azem's flaw lies in her love for com mon halfling delights and especially for wines of the Shires, sometimes causing her to lose control of herself. Druuwmet: The ruler is Druuwor, an 11-HD white dragon. Druuwmet covers the Makkres Mountains stretching between Rockhome, Vestland, and Soderfjord. Druuwor's lair is located 24 mikes south of the town of Rhoona. It is an ancient fortress built millennia a go by a forgotten civilization, before the Makkres became high mountains. White dragons and other creatures of the cold have lived and ruled from there, maintaining the dismal fortress. Druuwor occupies the cavernous hall in the keep. Frost giants guard t he ancestral fortress. Druuwor is a very old dragon, now 112 years old. His power has been waning ever since he battled Jargnir, twenty years ago. Druuwor lost the right side of his face to Jargnir's acid breath and bears other battle scars. His lair became magical when Druuwor grew into a huge white. It prevents aging from occurring within the fortress, but the sense of isolation and boredom that this place creates slowly causes the fortress inhabitants to go insane. Acutely paranoid, Druuwor hardly ever leaves his lair, feari ng theft of his treasure by his rather unstable followers. Jargnara: The ruler is Jargnir, a 12-HD black dragon. Jargnara includes the Great Marsh in Soderfjord, the hills to the south between the Great Marsh and the Hardanger Mountain Range, and part of western Rockhome Jargnir's lair is in the western part of t he marsh, below the muck. Jargnir rules from there, with the help of trolls, oozes, slimes, and other swamp things. Druuwor and Jargnir have been longtime foes, separated by their mutual claims over the Three Volcano Lands in western Rockhome. Jargnir is a relatively young wyrm who arose to power in a mere 105 years, She is a vicious lizard bent on destroying all human life in her path to satisfy her voracious appetite and that of her trollish minions. Jargnir is a swamp horror, a glistening bl ack, winged serpent with slightly glowing, green eyes. Aside from weak claws at her wings' main articulation, and a thorny, prehensile tail. Jargnir is a limbless serpent. Jargnir nourishes a profound hate for Druuwor, who killed her progeny while she was off at a dragon gathering. Jargnir's weakness is her sadism, which often causes her to stall the destruction of an dangerous foe in order to gloat and torment it. Khanistan: The ruler is Khanistar, a 17-HD blue dragon. Her lair is located on the World Mountain, at the center of the Land of the Black Sand in eastern Ethengar. Khanistan stretches 80 mikes from there in all directions. Khanistar's lair lies deep insid e a tall mountain that is dotted with sinister towers. The towers, built by magic over the centuries, are covered with stone barbs and talons. Minor dragons and other lesser minions occupy these towers, remaining constantly on the watch. Khanistar is a long, coiling, serpentlike wurm, Oriental in style, with large globular eyes and light blue scales. She has no wings but is skillful enough a spell-caster to overcome that limitation. She spent most of her 180 years of life seeking magic. S he built an impressive library of rare and ancient spells, including a few abominations dating from Nithia. Khanistar relies heavily on magic manipulation for reaching her goals. Khanistar is famous among dragons for using pocket dragons as spies or messe ngers. These are specially bred strains with blue scales, She mated once and so far has remained neutral with other dragons. Her weakness lies in her excessive attraction to magic. She may agree to suspicious deals just to acquire an old spell or lost artifact that she's been seeking for so long. Thalkoria: The ruler is Thalkor, a 13-HD black dragon. Thalkoria covers all of the Malpheggi Swamps in Darokin, with Thalkor's lair in the middle, inside the petrified remains of a very large, ancient ship built by a race of forgotten giants. It is mostly overgrown now with lichen, Spanish moss, and glowing growths. Thalkor is the current king of the lizard men, imposing his brutal authority on the primitive tribes. Thalkor is 118 years old. He has been defeated in combat several times by Azem, who stole many of his dragon followers. Thalkor had to gain control over new dragons several times from scratch, for which he has vowed to kill Azem. Thalkor is allied with Am anth in a plan to discover Azemur. Thalkor's lizard men have been quietly exploring the wilderness and the fringes of the Five Shires under various disguises. They do not suspect Azem to be in Wereskalot. Thalkor's weakness lies in his incredible greed fo r gems and jewelry, especially crowns and scepters. Thundiara: The ruler is Thundar, a 13-HD sea dragon. Her lair is located within an underwater inactive volcano crater called Thun, just north of the Aloysius Reefs in legends. The lair is the hollowed, out hulk of a fossilized kraken. The huge eyes have b een replaced with thick crystal panes, and the entrance is located underneath the hulk, where the kraken's beak should be. The beak can be opened or closed magically. Algae overgrow the outside of the hollow fossil. A dozen lesser sea serpents keep the la ir safe at all times. The magic affecting Thundar's lair causes the water surrounding it to be permanently breathable by surface dwellers. Thundiara has an 80-mile radius. Treat Thundar as a huge green dragon as far as aging and ceremonies go. Thundar is 163 years old and has a colorful personality. Under a magical guise, she often mingles with tritons, whom she sees as her pet people. She h opes to influence their philosophy toward rebuilding an empire over the ruins of the past Undersea Kingdom, when she attains immortality. In so doing, she plans to become their patron Immortal in the Sphere of Matter, while the lair would become their tem ple. Thundar is a megalomaniac. She mated once, many decades ago. She does not involve herself with dragons of the Known World's surface. Thundar: AC - 1; HD 13***; hp 73; AT 1 bite or spit; Dmg 3-24 or poison; MV (swim or fly) 180'; Save F24; ML 9; TT H X 2, I; AL N; SA fin-wings allow Thundar to glide for up to 6 rounds, poison glob breath 3 X /day to 100' (Saving Throw vs, Breath Weapon or die); spell-casting as a huge green dragon. For sea serpent statistics, check the Masters DM's Book, page 44, or AC: Creature Catalogue, page 64. ÿ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #299 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 22:50:09 -0400 (EDT) From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #300 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com X-Lines: 607 mystara-digest Tuesday, July 20 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 300 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question [MYSTARA] - religions Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin May Possibly Be Aunavailable for a While ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:27:40 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West I think the Champions of Mystara map does a great job of distinguishing between rocky desert, sandy desert, broken terrain, and barren lands. I'd recommend simply adhering to it as closely as possible. The Explorer's Manual states very clearly that the Sind Desert is very rocky, but the portion of the Great Wate bordering Hule is the Plain of Fire, not the Sind. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 17:19:55 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragons of the West >I'm looking for any references about dragons in the region west of Darokin >(Sind, Hule, Savage Coast, etc.) to build a Who's Who Among Dragons of the >Western Lands. Any recommendations of official TSR products talking about >the topic or any personal creations would be welcomed. Thanks! There's Pyre over in the Dark Jungle (Dragon #196 and probably Orc's Head). Then there's the Copper Dragon mentioned in PWA number three, although I've been told that the Mystara Monstrous Compendium addendum says there are no Coppers on Mystara (change it to another sort, perhaps). Champions of Mystara says that there are several Blues in the Konumtali Savannah, several Reds and at least one mated pair of Golds in the Black Mountains, a black dragon in the Okwanga lowlands of the Serpent penninsula, and some greens in the Nakakande rain forest--but as far as I know, none have been detailed. I seem to remember someone on this list or perhaps a website describing the tribe of Fire Giants in the barren plain and stating that they are allied with a dragon, but I don't remember when. Verminthrax, an ancient spellcasting red dragon, lives in the Moktor Fire Pits within the Graakhalian cave system and occasionally hunts near-humans (again, Champions of Mystara). I hope this helps :~) Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 10:36:50 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Hi guys! Got a quick question for ya. If a mage scryed (using a Crystal Ball, Clayrvoiance or any other scrying device) a person protected by an Anti-Magic Shell or inside an Anti-Magic Barrier or Resistant to magic, would the mage see the target or not? Thanx for answering to those who will do it. DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 02:53:46 -0700 From: "Paul L. Ming" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question > Hi guys! > Got a quick question for ya. > > If a mage scryed (using a Crystal Ball, Clayrvoiance or any other scrying > device) a person protected by The spell in question would have direct effect on a yes or no answere...except for the Anti-Magic part. > an Anti-Magic Shell or inside an Anti-Magic > Barrier Target won't be seen. This is just my interpretation of "Anti Magic". IMC's, AMShell is THE highest power spell. Even higher than a wish as far as 'top of the food chain' goes. It is still 6th level and all, but to me, it represents the most "final" spell. IMC's not even deities magic can penatrate this puppy. ...so, your milage may vary...;-) > or Resistant to magic In the case of a spell that doesn't "look" through someone else, but acts as a kind of "magic chase cam", the target will be seen...on one condition: the scryer knows where the person is to begin with. The resistant creature would have whatever MR his chance is of 'avoiding' the initial finding part of the scry (after all, the scry spell is trying to locate, or 'home in' on the target..magically). If the scryer knew that the target was in "Room #3 of the Laughing Pig Inn", then he could try and "scry" into that room and see. In the case of a spell that does "look" through someone else (like Clairavoyance, Clairaudience, for example), I would say that is completely up to the resistant creature. If he has, say, a 35% chance vs. magic, he gets his roll first. Success indicates he isn't "scryable" by that particular casting of the spell at that time. ^_^ Denakhan the Arch-Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 09:42:26 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, DM wrote: > If a mage scryed (using a Crystal Ball, Clayrvoiance or any other scrying > device) a person protected by an Anti-Magic Shell or inside an Anti-Magic > Barrier or Resistant to magic, would the mage see the target or not? I would have to say that the anti-magic barrier would keep the scryer from seeing the things inside the barrier. Resistance is, in my opinion, another matter entirely. To me, resistance is something that only comes into play when the character is directly the target of a spell or effect. The scrying seems to be a general location thing, so resistance wouldn't come into it. for what it's worth - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ Wanting Mystara material in your hands instead of in your computer? Your wait is almost over: the Tome of Mystara is in production! Come see what we're about at www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081 Mystara Fthagn! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 11:30:13 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Paul L. Ming wrote: > it represents the most "final" spell. IMC's not even deities magic can > penatrate this puppy. That makes it a bit overpowered for a 6th level spell, doncha think? Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 00:07:35 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > seems that the ethengar have once again drunk too much rice alcohol...... Unlikely! This rice thing is a product from Ochalea if I recall correctly, and we don't get it on the Sea of Grass too often. You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:23:24 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > Oh, you mean your Khan is still deceived by those illusion and charm > spells we cast on him all those years ago? He still doesn't realize that > Glantri actually has 14 principalities, one being the Principality of > Ethengar? Well, as long as he is happy in the asylum we built for him in > the Land of Black Sand, we should be fine. Those Glantrinians are really charming! They can get a deep look to the truth face by face, and they STILL don't believe it. O.k., OTOH nobody has ever said that Glantrinians have a strong grip to reality! "Great Khan to all officers from the operations staff! Report to the operations center immediately!" Oops! I have to go now. Bye! Jamuga Khan "Computer! Save running program as 'Jamuga Glantri 4' and cancel it. Exit!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:31:02 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tervine's Travel-Magic In a message dated 18/07/99 17:00:21 GMT Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > >Tervine's Multi-Wand: > > Neat idea, Carl! I could see people IMC killing for one of these. > Incidentally, if one were to try to buy one off of Tervine, how much would > the wand and each ring cost? You've got me there; I hadn't thought in terms of purchase.....I'd say the Wand itself wouldn't be too costly (it has no intrinsic power of its own, other than as a channel), but the rings would be rather expensive, both to purchase and (to a lesser extent) to recharge. You're better at these estimates than I am; what do you think a "reasonable" (yeah, RIGHT! ;-) price would be? What would happen, for example, if a wizard > were to put a ring of spell-storing on the wand? Could he/she then be > able to cast the stored spells through the wand? A normal Ring of Spell-Storing won't fit the Wand; likewise, the Wand's power rings won't fit (or work on) a Wizard's finger. No reason why Tervine can't make a Spell Storing Ring for the Multi-Wand, though.... > >Tervine's Fast-Draw Daggers: > Is dragon bone the only acceptable material, or could other bones be used? Dragonbone is one of the most useful substances for making magical items out of, IMC, that's why I (or Tervine, rather) chose it; but there's no reason you couldn't substitute some other bone, so long as every part of the set (ring, weapons/handles, grips, etc) are made from the same single bone. > How about throwing axes? Ooh, deadly! Dwarves would like this one!! :) :-)) And wouldn't THAT be a surprise for a party, when they come across an apparently-unarmed Dwarf and think "easy pickings"....;-) > >Tervine's Transpocket: > Hmmmm...what would be the encumbrance limit of the transpocket, or is > there simply a weight limit for each item? You're right; no encumbrance limit, in this case. The only limitations are that the item must be small enough to fit through the circlet; be one item (or a few in a small bag); and be something liftable (no dwarf star material, for instance). > Darn! Can't stuff fifteen rabid pizza-eating hamsters into it, and then > toss them out in rapid succession at a foe! 8-D LOL! I love that image; maybe Tervine can be prevailed upon to make ONE hamster-firing Transpocket....;-)) > >The Transpocket itself, unlike most items of this type, can be safely > stored in a > >Bag of Holding, so long as it is not activated. > > Okay, Carl, this sounds really ominous. What would happen? :) You don't want to know.....;-) > Great stuff, Carl! I thank you, sir! Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 14:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? I think _you_ mean "kumiss" Outside Jamuga's Yurt, (shake) (shake) Gotta keep that stuff well stirred :) Ethan - -- Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 01:18:52 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question > > device) a person protected by an Anti-Magic Shell or inside an Anti-Magic > > Barrier or Resistant to magic, would the mage see the target or not? > I would have to say that the anti-magic barrier would keep the scryer > from seeing the things inside the barrier. Resistance is, in my opinion, > another matter entirely. To me, resistance is something that only comes > into play when the character is directly the target of a spell or > effect. The scrying seems to be a general location thing, so resistance > wouldn't come into it. One thing might be worth thinking; the ball first *locates* the target, and then scryes him. Folks with either the Shell or magic resistance, might (ought to) be resistant to the locating effect. Thus; it is hard to spy a resistant person with a crystall ball, but if you watch someone he is speaking with, you can see also the resistant person. IMHO, the shell looks like a black silhouette through a crystal ball. > --Frobozz-- - Markus the metaphysician, who just heard that he got into the Helsinki University to study communications, which is approximately the most difficult line to get in in the university. :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 00:59:27 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri You've got the happy happy shake.I see. SteelAngel a écrit: > On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? > > I think _you_ mean "kumiss" > > Outside Jamuga's Yurt, > > (shake) (shake) > Gotta keep that stuff well stirred :) > > Ethan > > -- > Ethan Deneault - PH/MU '99 > www.wpi.edu/~eand - wpi.flame Quote Archive. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:10:09 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Basically, I share the same views on the matter as Markus. The shell would block it completely, and everything else around the shell wouldn't, so you'd have a silhouette-like thing going there. Now, with the resistance stuff, I think that it would be hazy, not a complete scry, but a hazy scry, and i'd roll probability dice to see what actually got through the shield to the scryer. Melf the Shadowstalker, Devotee of Fate *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 16:14:59 -0700 From: "Paul L. Ming" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question > One thing might be worth thinking; the ball first *locates* the target, > and then scryes him. Folks with either the Shell or magic resistance, > might (ought to) be resistant to the locating effect. Thus; it is hard to > spy a resistant person with a crystall ball, but if you watch someone he > is speaking with, you can see also the resistant person. > > IMHO, the shell looks like a black silhouette through a crystal ball. Hiya. Yes, I think I wrote that very thing down in that post somewhere (or I intended to). As "scrying and area" doesn't target the person with the resistance, his resistance is moot. I wouldn't do the black silhouette thing, however. After all, the vision isn't "magical"; jsut the location of the 'magic camera'. The light reaching the 'magic camera' would just be regular old light, and should work as such even if the light is bouncing off of something inside an AM Shell. ^_^ Denakhan the Arch-Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:17:58 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - religions I was wondering what religions/Immortals would be available to a chaotic neutral Elven Infiltrator (F/M/T) from Alfheim? It doesn't have to be official, in fact, original religions are even better than the official ones in my opinion. Thanks Melf the Shadowstalker, Devotee of Fate *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:54:54 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Markus Olavi Montola wrote: > - Markus the metaphysician, > who just heard that he got into the Helsinki University to study > communications, which is approximately the most difficult line to get > in in the university. :-) Hey! Congratulations, Markus! Now you're going to learn how to tell us all how to speak to each other more effectively, eh? (Had a friend who majored in comms at U of Delaware...she reitred already at age 28 to have a kid. She made GOOD money.) Good luck to you. - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ Wanting Mystara material in your hands instead of in your computer? Your wait is almost over: the Tome of Mystara is in production! Come see what we're about at www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081 Mystara Fthagn! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:11:11 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Admin May Possibly Be Aunavailable for a While Mystarans and Spacefarers, The last two times I did some upgrade on my computer things didn't turn out as I would have liked them to, and was subsequently rendered unavailable for several days. So, I am going to get the jump on things and announce my possible AWOL in advance... Tomorrow I will be installing a hard drive (14.4 gig, 7400 rpm IBM Deskstar. Yummy.) in my system, and then installing Windows 2000. Thus it is very likely I will be unavailable for a day or two (The drive oughta go in fine, be 2000 is a beta and a Microsoft product. You do the math.) So, if you have anything you need to contact me about, please do so before 5:30 Wednesday (MST). Thanks. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@lesbois.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #300 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, July 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 301 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question Re: [MYSTARA] - religions [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question [MYSTARA] - Site update [MYSTARA] - Scrying Solution!!! [MYSTARA] - Job Offering Re: [MYSTARA] - Job Offering [MYSTARA] - The job has been filled Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:58:54 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question >Basically, I share the same views on the matter as Markus. The shell would >block it completely, and everything else around the shell wouldn't, so you'd >have a silhouette-like thing going there. Now, with the resistance stuff, I >think that it would be hazy, not a complete scry, but a hazy scry, and i'd >roll probability dice to see what actually got through the shield to the >scryer. > I agree I think it should be hazy like those things they put over people on shows to protect there identity. perhaps Clairaudience would end up murmured *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 03:27:59 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question In a message dated 7/20/99 4:40:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << If a mage scryed (using a Crystal Ball, Clayrvoiance or any other scrying device) a person protected by an Anti-Magic Shell or inside an Anti-Magic Barrier or Resistant to magic, would the mage see the target or not? >> IMC, if a creature with Non-detection or that is 100% magic resistant or immune to magic is scryed upon, the attempt automatically fails. If the caster or user of a crystal ball scryes an area and a creature with the above resistances/immunities is on the area, then a 'dead zone' around the creature is seen. If the creature in either instance has anything less than 100% resistance to magic, then they may make a check to resist being detected. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:02:17 +0200 (METDST) From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - religions On Tue, 20 Jul 1999 Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > I was wondering what religions/Immortals would be available to a chaotic > neutral Elven Infiltrator (F/M/T) from Alfheim? It doesn't have to be > official, in fact, original religions are even better than the official ones > in my opinion. Thanks > Eyrindul is probably the known Immortal with the most fitting portfolio and alignment, even if he isn't really popular in Alfheim. However, there is no reason why a CN alfheimer could not worship Mealiden or even Ilsundal. Giampaolo Agosta *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:47:19 +0100 From: "F.Peronnet" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sylvan Realm what is the timeline of the Sylvan Realm ? who live in the Sylvan Realm today (AC 1000-1015) ? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 09:15:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Valerya@webtv.net (Jenn) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Clairvoyance question >Markus the metaphysician, >who just heard that he got into the Helsinki >University to study   communications, which is >approximately the most difficult line to get   in >in the university. :-) Congratulations, Markus! :-)) Jenn *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:44:29 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Site update Hi all, Just a quick note to say I've done a little update to my geocities cite. The Outer Being-related monsters have been reworked slightly, and some ambiguities worked out. So, if you have them on any of your sites, you may wish to copy over the updated versions. Geoff (who has set the wheels in motion to bless his players with a little visit from a friendly lesser servitor of Yurrgh-Thal....) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:46:27 -0400 From: "Patrick Rannou" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Scrying Solution!!! Hello everybody! I'm Pax, or Paradak, or Patrick if you prefer. If you want to see what I look like, go to: www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Castle/8600 It's not much of a personal page at all, but at least it's got my photo. Anyway I just connected to the list ah WOAH is this place alive or what? And I thought that D&D wasn't played much anymore. Well, more about me later! I have my two cents here about the Scrying thread. IMHO, it's very easy to solve. 1) Targeting. The targeting of the desired scrying location is done in one of two ways: 1a) As a target spell i.e. "Crystal ball, show me my enemy!" In which case activating the scrying fails if the person resists (anti-magic) 1b) Or it is directly done on the the area where the person is i.e. "Crystal ball, show me the magical laboratory of my enemy's castle!" "(where I know he passes most of his free time)" In which case unless the location has anti-magic the targeting will work. 2) The spell effect itself is a location/area spell. Treat exactly like all location/area spells, then, The best example is to treat Scrying just like a Fireball works. If you target an immortal, or 5' near it, you're out of luck and your spell doesn't even work. But if you target near where an Immortal is, you will see the area, but the Immortal itself won't appear, all you will see is a 10' wide bubble (or more if the anti-magical being is really big) where the Scrying doesn't work AT ALL. So, if your 100% anti-magic Immortal is with two accomplices and only one is standing near him, then if you succesfully target their area then you will be able to see (and/or hear) only one of the three. The mage perceive the areas where the spell doesn'T work. Even if it's clairaudience scrying, the mage detects that an area doesn't have any sound at all. If you've gone even once in your life in a soud-proof room (the kind with walls that absorb sound), the feeling of being surrounded without any sound at all is simply... deafening! Thrust me on this one: detecting a complete lack of sound is VERY easy. Well, good day everyone! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:18:59 -0400 From: saint_carl Subject: [MYSTARA] - Job Offering - --------------3A5305E68BB2A414BC95A89E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone. I was wondering if any of you out there would like to write Mystara reviews for The Montreal RPG Hub web site. Seeing as how we don't have that many products for Mystara we thought it would be best to get someone with more experience with the world and products to write the reviews. If any of you are interested, just let me know. I hope this message doesn't inconvenience the list in any way. Thank you for your time. Saint Carl The Montreal RPG Hub - --------------3A5305E68BB2A414BC95A89E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone. I was wondering if any of you out there would like to write Mystara reviews for The Montreal RPG Hub web site. Seeing as how we don't have that many products for Mystara we thought it would be best to get someone with more experience with the world and products to write the reviews. If any of you are interested, just let me know. I hope this message doesn't inconvenience the list in any way. Thank you for your time.

Saint Carl
The Montreal RPG Hub - --------------3A5305E68BB2A414BC95A89E-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:20:58 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Job Offering Saint, I would love to write reviews for your web site. Please email me when you get a chance. Matt ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [MYSTARA] - Job Offering Author: saint.carl (saint_carl@geocities.com) at unix,mime Date: 7/21/99 1:18 PM Hello everyone. I was wondering if any of you out there would like to write Mystara reviews for The Montreal RPG Hub web site. Seeing as how we don't have that many products for Mystara we thought it would be best to get someone with more experience with the world and products to write the reviews. If any of you are interested, just let me know. I hope this message doesn't inconvenience the list in any way. Thank you for your time. Saint Carl The Montreal RPG Hub This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 13:55:47 -0400 From: saint_carl Subject: [MYSTARA] - The job has been filled - --------------C83C4E4EA199F0283BC24BD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone once again. I'm just want to thank everyone for the quick responses for the job. I'm just here to say that the job has been filled by two people but if anyone has anything relating to Mystara such as adventures, classes, ect, please send it to my address. Thank you for your time. Saint Carl The Montreal RPG Hub - --------------C83C4E4EA199F0283BC24BD6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone once again. I'm just want to thank everyone for the quick responses for the job. I'm just here to say that the job has been filled by two people but if anyone has anything relating to Mystara such as adventures, classes, ect, please send it to my address. Thank you for your time.

Saint Carl
The Montreal RPG Hub - --------------C83C4E4EA199F0283BC24BD6-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:22:22 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > SteelAngel wrote: > > > On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Jamuga Khan wrote: > > > > > You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? > > > > I think _you_ mean "kumiss" > > > > Outside Jamuga's Yurt, > > > > (shake) (shake) > > Gotta keep that stuff well stirred :) > > Khan. Jamuga Khan. Likes his kumiss shaken, not stirred :) - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:57:35 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! If anybody's still slogging through my Hollow Moon posts on the Mystara Message Board -- wow, you are? what stamina! -- I've just wrapped up my latest submission about the pteryx. Read it, and you'll understand why I'm reluctant to send a 65-page megapost down the pipe here on the MML, to clog up peoples' e-mailboxes! :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 19:26:49 +0100 From: "Harmony" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Dornhoff To: Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 2:57 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! > If anybody's still slogging through my Hollow Moon posts on the Mystara > Message Board -- wow, you are? what stamina! -- I've just wrapped up my > latest submission about the pteryx. Read it, and you'll understand why I'm > reluctant to send a 65-page megapost down the pipe here on the MML, to clog > up peoples' e-mailboxes! :-) > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > Hi in your message you mentioned a Mystara message board can you tell me how to find it Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #301 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, July 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 302 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! Re: [MYSTARA] - ...the MMB! [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:00:17 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! >Hi in your message you mentioned a Mystara message board can you tell me how >to find it >Thanks. > The MMB is one part of Wizards Of The Coasts' public webpages. You can 'surf' directly into the message boards at TSROnline -- WotC's online forum for gamers -- at: http://tsronline.wizards.com:80/mb Guests can browse through the messages, but you'll need to set up a login for yourself before you can post anything. (Mine is "Rotipher". :-D) It's an iChat bulletin board, with the usual perks, quirks, and delays that iChat entails. It's also accessible as a newsgroup, but I don't personally use that method (my newsreader doesn't let you edit previous posts), so you'll need to ask someone else how to get to the MMB that way. Enjoy! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:21:07 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - ...the MMB! >It's also accessible as a newsgroup, but I don't personally use that method >(my newsreader doesn't let you edit previous posts), so you'll need to ask >someone else how to get to the MMB that way. To access it through a newsreader (such as MS Outlook or Netscape Navigator or Communicator) just connect to the news server: tsronline.wizards.com You don't have to log in. You should definitely try to get on the MMB one way or another--it often parrallels the MML, but there's also a lot of stuff that's only posted to one or the other. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" A few weeks ago I found an interesting Mystara webpage that detailed someone's theory on the 3? "dialects" of Traladaran being equivalent to RW Russian, Romanian, and Serbo-croatian (I think, IIRC). I tried to find the page again and have had no luck. Does anyone know where or who's this is? Shane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:12:45 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sprite PC's On Thu 15 Jul 99 14:38:52 EDT, Erik Waddell wrote: << One thing I've been considering for use in my campaign is allowing PC's to make Sprite player characters (as detailed in the "tall tales of the wee folk" book). My campaign will be taking place in the Republic of Darokin, which seems a reasonable place for sprites to look for adventure, as Darokin surrounds Alfheim and thus the home forests of the little bugs. Has anyone had any roleplaying experience where Sprites were mixed into the PC group. Does it cause any major problems, or maybe it has some unforseen benefits? I was thinking that perhaps Sprites could be an uncommon, though not unheard of race in Darokin, and thus PC sprites would be able to better fit into the overall setting. >> Hi Erik! Many people already answered this, but I thought one more mail wouldn't harm anyone. I HAVE currently a wooddrake in one of my campaigns and he's kicking along quite fine. I introduced him in a very devious way: with one of his alter egos (halfling thief) he stole a Traladaran artifact for an Alphatian spy in order to cause major political strife in Karameikos. One of the PCs happened to be framed for the theft by this same spy and the wooddrake (under his second alter ego -elven maiden) offered his help to capture the real culprit. At the end the party accepted him after retrieving the artifact, altho they still don't know his real nature nor that he stole the artifact in the first place. From my experience, the fairy PCs are not all-powerful, especially because they get the powers with experience. The truly powerful skill they have is the Invisibility to mortals at will, but hey, they're near-Immortals after all.. I think Darokin is the best place to start for a fairy PC together with Alfheim, Wendar and the Isle of Dawn. Darokin however offers so many types of terrain and cultures that it can really be defined the small-scale KW, so it's a good choice. Many farmers will probably tell tall tales about the wee folks, while city dwellers probably ignore their existance, altho powerful personalities and sages might well know of them. Last thing I'd like to say is that the XP tables in PC1, PC2 and some of the tables in PC3 as well are flawed. I recalculated the XP using the rules given in PC3 and they sound now much more affordable for players. IMNSHO also HALFLING XP tables should be reworked, since halflings tend to be the least valued and slowest characters (in terms of level progression) to play. Anyway, this is just an example of my XP table for sprites: NM 0 1 1,700 2 3,400 3 7,000 4 14,000 5 28,000 6 60,000 7 120,000 8 240,000 9 500,000 10 800,000 +300,000 per level thereafter Not very different from the one given in PC1, but look at the brownie table: - - -1,800 NM 0 1 1,800 2 4,000 3 8,000 4 16,000 5 30,000 6 60,000 7 120,000 8 240,000 9 500,000 10 750,000 + 250,000 per level thereafter You could say it's a lot less than the table in PC1, but think for a second of the powers of the brownie and compare it with a fighter and you'll see that a 9th level brownie can be easily defeated by a 9th level fighter.. without considering that a 9th lvl fighter must make less XP than a 9th level brownie (half the same XPs IIRC!). Hope this helps! DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:04:18 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" In a message dated 99-07-23 03:00:30 EDT, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: << A few weeks ago I found an interesting Mystara webpage that detailed someone's theory on the 3? "dialects" of Traladaran being equivalent to RW Russian, Romanian, and Serbo-croatian (I think, IIRC). I tried to find the page again and have had no luck. Does anyone know where or who's this is? >> I'm pretty sure that it is my article you read, but I can't find it anywhere! I thought it was on Shawn's page... I'll have to look through my old computer... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:12:39 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > > You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? > > I think _you_ mean "kumiss" > > Outside Jamuga's Yurt, > > (shake) (shake) > Gotta keep that stuff well stirred :) > > > Ethan Different spelling, obviously. (Sometimes I SHOULD reread "The Golden Khan of Ethengar"!) Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:50:16 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" Well, my GM has a site up for Mystara which includes about 30 languages and dialects, and their origins. His site is at Shadows of the Triad - Homepage . I don't know if that's the site you were talking about, but it has similar information Meltheim the Shadowstalker *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:17:55 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" ><< A few weeks ago I found an interesting Mystara webpage that > detailed someone's theory on the 3? "dialects" of Traladaran being > equivalent to RW Russian, Romanian, and Serbo-croatian (I think, IIRC). > I tried to find the page again and have had no luck. Does anyone know > where or who's this is? >> > >I'm pretty sure that it is my article you read, but I can't find it anywhere! >I thought it was on Shawn's page... I'll have to look through my old >computer... I don't know where it is in Shawn's site, but you can find it on Marco's (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/ ) in Miscellenea under the title Linguistic Issues. Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:36:07 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars While I was looking for the ancient origins of the Ethengars I found two different explanations: in GAZ 12, the Ethengars, were a people living at the edge of the Blackmoor cultural area driven to its current location by the Great Rain of Fire and, in the HW DM's sourcebook, the Ethengars were a mix of Oltec and Neathar who settled the region at approximately the same time that the Antalians arrived in the Northern Reaches. Did anybody ever worked on the Ethengars origins? If yes, where could I find what have been done? What I would really like to know is if anybody has figured out the geographic origin of the Ethengar since GAZ12 suggest a primary location on Skothar and the HW DM's would rather let me believe that they were from Brun in the first place. Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:12:22 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! In a message dated 22/07/99 02:58:42 GMT Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > If anybody's still slogging through my Hollow Moon posts on the Mystara > Message Board -- wow, you are? what stamina! -- I've just wrapped up my > latest submission about the pteryx. Read it, and you'll understand why I'm > reluctant to send a 65-page megapost down the pipe here on the MML, to clog > up peoples' e-mailboxes! :-) But Sharon, I haven't figured out how to download MMB posts - couldn't you just clog up my direct e-mailbox? Please? ;-) Carl Q, Groveller extraordinaire *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:26:55 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri >> > You might be thinking of "kurmiss", aren't you? >> >> I think _you_ mean "kumiss" >> >> Outside Jamuga's Yurt, >> >> (shake) (shake) >> Gotta keep that stuff well stirred :) >> >> >> Ethan > >Different spelling, obviously. > >(Sometimes I SHOULD reread "The Golden Khan of Ethengar"!) > > > > Jamuga Khan > > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law." > Well, what do you expect? Ethengars probably write in kanji -- pictographic symbols which make "spelling" unnecessary -- not a phonetic alphabet. ;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:32:53 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri In a message dated 23/07/99 19:27:41 GMT Daylight Time, dornhoff@bio.umass.edu writes: > Well, what do you expect? Ethengars probably write in kanji -- > pictographic symbols which make "spelling" unnecessary -- not a phonetic > alphabet. ;-) When they're not stoned out of their brains on Kumiss, that is....;-D Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:54:48 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >While I was looking for the ancient origins of the Ethengars I found two >different explanations: in GAZ 12, the Ethengars, were a people living at >the edge of the Blackmoor cultural area driven to its current location by >the Great Rain of Fire and, in the HW DM's sourcebook, the Ethengars were a >mix of Oltec and Neathar who settled the region at approximately the same >time that the Antalians arrived in the Northern Reaches. Did anybody ever >worked on the Ethengars origins? If yes, where could I find what have been >done? What I would really like to know is if anybody has figured out the >geographic origin of the Ethengar since GAZ12 suggest a primary location on >Skothar and the HW DM's would rather let me believe that they were from Brun >in the first place. >Christian "Krieg!" Constantin > The two origins aren't mutually incompatible. Just assume that it took the Ethies quite a while to cross over from Skothar (3000 BC) to the Brunnish steppes (~2200 BC), and it works out all right. Since the area they started out in -- Blackmoor -- was freezing over after the GRoF, and the glacial ice sheets of Brun were just starting to melt, they could've traveled over the ocean's ice cap, Eskimo-style, and not even realized they'd left land. Personally, I changed the Ethengars' Blackmoor-era ancestors from humble hunter-gatherers to a second ethnic group within the Blackmoorian nation. (Why should Blackmoor be an 'all-white' enclave? East Asia is just as addicted to high technology as Europe or North America, after all! :-D) They'd originally fled to Brun, in the hopes of joining the (shadow) elves who had lived there in Blackmoor's era. But the hardships of a nuclear winter and confrontations with arctic Beastmen cost the proto-Ethies so many lives, during the journey from Skothar, that they were reduced to near-barbarism, forgot their original destination, and settled in the first unglaciated region (the steppes) they came upon. Only then did the spirits contact them and help them rebuild their society along low-tech, shamanistic lines. The one other detail I came up with, for Ethie origins, is that they're not just a Neathar/Oltec cross. (To judge by how all the other N/O ethnic groups shake out, that combination of genes produces brownish skin -- e.g. Nithians, Sindhis -- rather than the golden-yellow pigmentation of eastern Asians.) Instead, Ethies IMC are unknowingly descended from intermarriages between native Blackmoorians (Caucasians), and the original survivors of the FSS Beagle (pale green skin), having inherited the yellow -- but NOT the pale blue -- skin pigments of their Federation forebearers. Later marriages with Oltecs, upon reaching Brun, gave them Asiatic-style eyes and hair, but the aliens' yellow-gold pigment genes were dominant to the Oltecs' reddish-brown ones. All this about their role in the Blackmoor era and their long-forgotten alien ancestry is just my own idea, however. The only "canon" material for the Ethies' origins are the two dates you've cited, yourself. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:43:42 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >The two origins aren't mutually incompatible. Just assume that it took the >Ethies quite a while to cross over from Skothar (3000 BC) to the Brunnish >steppes (~2200 BC), and it works out all right. Since the area they >started out in -- Blackmoor -- was freezing over after the GRoF, and the >glacial ice sheets of Brun were just starting to melt, they could've >traveled over the ocean's ice cap, Eskimo-style, and not even realized >they'd left land. Well, that's approximately the twist I thought to use IMC. But, I'd rather think that they would have used the bridges linking Skothar and Brun on both sides of the Frosthaven Sea (see the precataclysmic map in HW), but that's details. Those bridges would have been there for a while since in the years after the GRoF, there have been some kind of Ice Age meaning less water in the oceans. However, I think that it's the best way to deal with the two origins. > >Personally, I changed the Ethengars' Blackmoor-era ancestors from humble >hunter-gatherers to a second ethnic group within the Blackmoorian nation. >(Why should Blackmoor be an 'all-white' enclave? East Asia is just as >addicted to high technology as Europe or North America, after all! :-D) Or even more... See the Japanese cities' techno orgies ;-) >They'd originally fled to Brun, in the hopes of joining the (shadow) elves >who had lived there in Blackmoor's era. But the hardships of a nuclear >winter and confrontations with arctic Beastmen cost the proto-Ethies so >many lives, during the journey from Skothar, that they were reduced to >near-barbarism, forgot their original destination, and settled in the first >unglaciated region (the steppes) they came upon. Only then did the spirits >contact them and help them rebuild their society along low-tech, >shamanistic lines. Seems quite realistic, maybe they have left some cousins back in the northern lands, some kind of M-Eskimos/Siberians, still fighting against the humanoids in northern Brun and Skothar... > >The one other detail I came up with, for Ethie origins, is that they're not >just a Neathar/Oltec cross. (To judge by how all the other N/O ethnic >groups shake out, that combination of genes produces brownish skin -- e.g. >Nithians, Sindhis -- rather than the golden-yellow pigmentation of eastern >Asians.) Instead, Ethies IMC are unknowingly descended from intermarriages >between native Blackmoorians (Caucasians), and the original survivors of >the FSS Beagle (pale green skin), having inherited the yellow -- but NOT >the pale blue -- skin pigments of their Federation forebearers. Later >marriages with Oltecs, upon reaching Brun, gave them Asiatic-style eyes and >hair, but the aliens' yellow-gold pigment genes were dominant to the >Oltecs' reddish-brown ones. That could be a good explanation but I should admit that I'm not a Blackmoorian specialist to say if intermarriages were that common betweeen the people of Blackmoor and the aliens of the FSS Beagle. Then, there is the question of Ochalea: would the non-spellcasting Alphatians who settled this land have met some natives that would be long lost cousins of the Ethies? That would explain why the names and cultural traits of the Ochaleans are so far from those of the mother land's Alphatians (I always have been dissatisfied by the DotE explanations for the Ochalean society, but haven't had to work on that IMC). > >All this about their role in the Blackmoor era and their long-forgotten >alien ancestry is just my own idea, however. The only "canon" material for >the Ethies' origins are the two dates you've cited, yourself. > Thanks a lot Sharon for the sharing of these well-thought ideas. You provided me with interesting ways to deal with the Ethies' origins and you have been able to write them down in a much clearer way than I could have done. Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #302 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, July 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 303 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:16:20 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars > Then, there is the >question of Ochalea: would the non-spellcasting Alphatians who settled this >land have met some natives that would be long lost cousins of the Ethies? >That would explain why the names and cultural traits of the Ochaleans are so >far from those of the mother land's Alphatians (I always have been >dissatisfied by the DotE explanations for the Ochalean society, but haven't >had to work on that IMC). Well, if you go by the history of Patera that's presented on Stan's Archive, Ochalea was invaded and annexed by Oriental rakastas from the invisible moon back in 800 BC, shortly after the Ochalean colony was founded. These Paterans were later driven out by the continental Alphatians, who re-asserted their rule over the (previously independent) Ochaleans; but the legacy of the rakastas' culture persisted among the island's humans, even as the retreating rakastas took home Alphatian ideas of imperialism and founded the nation of Myoshima. This, of course, leaves us wondering how Patera became an Oriental realm in the first place! My guess is that the invisible moon, like the Ethengar steppes, has strong cross-planar links to the Spirit World, and it's from there that the Far Eastern elements of both cultures can ultimately be traced. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:59:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Traladaran "dialects" The article (by James Mishler) I was looking for is indeed found on Marco Dalmonte's site. Thanks to everyone for the help. Shane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:17:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri - --- Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > Well, what do you expect? Ethengars probably write > in kanji -- > pictographic symbols which make "spelling" > unnecessary -- not a phonetic > alphabet. ;-) Well, perhaps there are dialectal differences within the Ethengars' language to explain the kurmiss/kumiss controversy. But for what it's worth, my Merriam-Webster's dictionary says that both "koumiss" and "kumiss" are acceptable forms, but hey, RW-dictionaries don't include Mystaran spellings ;-) Anyway, I believe the Mongolian word for "horse-milk liquor" is "airag" (English "koumiss" is borrowed from Russian "kumys"). Ah, I think some sages have maybe been misled by Glantrian rumors on the nature of the Ethengar script (assuming Ethengars write like RW-Mongols :-) The Mongolian orthography is indeed an alphabetic one, with vowels and consonants--and is called Classical Mongolian, Uighur/Uyghur script, galica, or kalika. Mongolian is one of the few languages that is written vertically instead of horizontally (though it is written left-to-right). The script was borrowed from the Uighurs, a Turkic people of NW China, who borrowed it from the Sogdians, an Iranian people, who adapted it from a Semitic (eg. Phoenician, Hebrew, Arabic) script--which explains why Mongolian writing sorta looks like Arabic turned on end. During the period of Soviet domination, Outer Mongolia (=the Republic of Mongolia) was forced to use the Cyrillic script, but since the end of the Cold War, Mongolia has tried to switch back to the native alphabet. The Inner Mongolian Autonomous Region (I've been there! :-) of China has used the Classical Mongolian script up to the current day. It's my personal opinion that no self-respecting Ethengar would be caught dead defiling his mother tongue with "decadent scribblings" of Ochalean or Myoshiman origin;-) (Though RW-Mongols did use a quasi-Chinese orthography in the 13th-14th centuries). Finally, here's a couple informative websites (there really aren't too many Mongolian pages on the net!): http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~corff/mf.html http://home.powertech.no/pioe/ and here's an example of what Classical Mongolian writing looks like: (check out the last font on the bottom; though note that this font sample is written vertically for computer use--so you'll just have to imagine it being vertical :-) http://hopi.dtcc.edu/~berlin/font/mongol.htm Here's the only sample, though brief, of proper vertical Classical Mongolian I could find on the net: http://www.kiku.com./electric_samurai/virtual_mongol/index.html Shane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 04:39:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri - --- Shane Henry wrote: > and here's an example of what Classical Mongolian > writing looks like: > (check out the last font on the bottom; though note > that this font > sample is written vertically for computer use--so > you'll just have to > imagine it being vertical :-) > > http://hopi.dtcc.edu/~berlin/font/mongol.htm Er...it should say "...this font sample is written HORIZONTALLY for computer use...". But, you knew what I meant :-) Shane _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 08:02:04 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Sharon wrote: >Personally, I changed the Ethengars' Blackmoor-era ancestors from humble >hunter-gatherers to a second ethnic group within the Blackmoorian nation. >(Why should Blackmoor be an 'all-white' enclave? East Asia is just as >addicted to high technology as Europe or North America, after all! :-D) This is a neat idea! IMC, I just made the Ethengarians the direct descendants of the Peshwah horse warriors. Despite the cataclysms of the GRoF, their horse-based culture remained essentially intact (and indeed, this is what might have saved them in the end). Another branch fled south to the great plains of Skothar, and later mixed with some migrating Oltecs to produce the Jennites. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 18:55:22 +0200 From: "Jamuga Khan" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Ethengar versa Glantri > Khan. Jamuga Khan. Likes his kumiss shaken, not stirred :) Nearly perfect! I take my kumiss stirred, not shaken! :-) Jamuga Khan "Only barbarians will drink their kumiss 'shaken'." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #303 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, July 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 304 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - some pearl islands food recipes. [MYSTARA] - Wendar's Currency Re: [MYSTARA] - Wendar's Currency Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers [MYSTARA] - Spellkin spell level? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:20:14 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - some pearl islands food recipes. As an addition to my site i would like to offer a few recipes ... enjoy. http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/cuisine/indexcook.htm thibault. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 01:41:26 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wendar's Currency Does anyone know where the names for Wendar's currency (Di, On, and Teci), as given in the PWAs, came from? Are they taken from X11 or a Dragon article? And, either way, does anyone know the inspiration for the names? Are they taken from any RW counterparts? The currencies that I looked at that I figured had never before been described (Heldannic and Hulean) seemed to be modelled after RW German and Italian coins. I'm wondering if the Wendarian language is based on a RW language. Also, while I'm thinking of it, were the currencies of the Savage Coast, or even the City-States, ever detailed/named? I can't remember ever seeing them (although this could well be because I haven't read that material for a couple years). Thanks Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:13:57 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wendar's Currency On Sun, 25 Jul 1999, Patrick Sullivan wrote: > Does anyone know where the names for Wendar's currency (Di, On, and Teci), > as given in the PWAs, came from? Are they taken from X11 or a Dragon > article? And, either way, does anyone know the inspiration for the names? I'm not sure, but I dont think it was mentioned in a Dragon magazine. Maybe it comes from the Western Trailmap? > Are they taken from any RW counterparts? The currencies that I looked at > that I figured had never before been described (Heldannic and Hulean) seemed > to be modelled after RW German and Italian coins. I'm wondering if the > Wendarian language is based on a RW language. > Also, while I'm thinking of it, were the currencies of the Savage Coast, or > even the City-States, ever detailed/named? I can't remember ever seeing > them (although this could well be because I haven't read that material for a > couple years). I believe that these were described in the Princess Ark series although I do not recall which issue or their names right now. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 16:01:29 +0200 From: Fabrizio Paoli Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Outer geomancy: time issues At 19.04 16/07/99 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >OTOH, if you try to have time, ITSELF, running in the opposite direction in >the Nightmare continuum, then you get weird outcomes like people being >removed from graves at the beginnning of life, growing younger over the >years, and then being reabsorbed into their mothers' bodies at the end. >Not only would this seem icky and/or silly -- it's like something "Mork & >Mindy" used as a gag -- but it'd leave too little for PCs to do there, if >all around them they're seeing effects turning into causes, instead of vice >versa. They can't find gold, just watch it being buried in the ground by >miners. They can't train apprentices in their class or pass on their >skills or even give advice, because if they teach people things, they're >making them forget things they'd previously known. They wouldn't even be >able to kill monsters, just find their carcasses and "un-slay" them back to >life! Reversed time makes a decent short sci-fi story -- I forget the >title, but I remember reading a very famous one where time ran backwards -- >but it'd make a pretty poor game, if all the PCs get to do is UNdo things >for which they can already see the consequences. It takes away all the >players' choices. This reminds me of a reversed-entropy RPG idea that was posted a few years ago on an italian newsgroup about RPGs. It was very funny. Imagine for example the PCs healing monsters by hitting them with their swords... :-) > > > >>Of course that would solve the problem of who came first: the answer is >>nobody, as one type of dimensional creatures are evolving while the other >>are devolving, and it's switching back and forth between such eras of >>law/Immortals/evolution and chaos/Faeries/devolution. > >Again, this can work even if time isn't running backwards ... just >thermodynamics. Note that increasing stasis doesn't necessarily mean >"devolution", because things that are well-suited to survive in a changing >world will keep right on passing on their traits better than others which >aren't well-suited (i.e. evolving). This remains true, even if the changes >they are adapting to ARE those of an increasing order, rather than >increasing disorder. To get "devolution" to occur, nature would have to be >intentionally selecting for traits that get a life form killed or prevent >it from breeding, which is preposterous: natural selection is not >intentional, it is passive. > > > >>The Outer Beings, who exist and see both in the 1st and 5th, are immortal >>and have a very good understanding of time and of the evolution/devolution >>of the Prime, a knowledge that few Immortals can grasp and its part of what >>scares the Immortals. > >The way I'd pictured it, what scares the Immortals isn't things the OBs >know ... it's that they aren't even sure if the Beings "know" things -- or >"feel", "choose", "exist", "think", etc -- at all! The OBs' nature is >SOOOOO alien, it's not even all that accurate to say they're 'alive', let >alone have specific "understanding" as Contiguous beings define it. >Whether the Outer Beings perceive time's passage even occurs, as other >beings do -- heck, whether they "perceive" at all! -- is open to question. >So just saying the Immortals are scared, because the OBs know something >they don't, would reduce their fundamental 'weirdness' too much, IMO. > >If we grubby little small-minded humans could understand what the Outer >Beings are REALLY like and/or up to, they wouldn't be the Outer Beings, >would they...? The point is that they're too alien for Contiguous >creatures -- which includes us humans who are reading the MML! -- to figure >out, entirely. All I did was suggest what frame of reference they might've >originated in, in the context of the IM rules; actually assigning them >motives, knowledge, and/or a detailed explanation we readers could >understand would be counterproductive. :-) > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > ************** Fabrizio Paoli brizio@gdr.net http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/4560/ ************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 12:09:39 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >This, of course, leaves us wondering how Patera became an Oriental realm in >the first place! My guess is that the invisible moon, like the Ethengar >steppes, has strong cross-planar links to the Spirit World, and it's from >there that the Far Eastern elements of both cultures can ultimately be >traced. > Could be an answer, another way of putting it would be to have the Rakastas created by a mage of that proto-Ethengar culture as "guinea pigs" for the exploration of space. But, then again, I should admit my ignorance on most of the moon stuff that has been produced on the web... "Hiding under my desk out of shame" :-o Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 17:11:59 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >Could be an answer, another way of putting it would be to have the Rakastas >created by a mage of that proto-Ethengar culture as "guinea pigs" for the >exploration of space. Bruce's Dragon article about the various breeds of rakasta has already accounted for their race's origin, I'm afraid. But the question of how the heck they got to the invisible moon is still unresolved, AFAIK. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:14:11 +0100 From: "Harmony" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Monster HM post on the MMB! Thanks for answering so quickly *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 23:32:48 +0100 From: "Harmony" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers I came to Mystara quite late with the Cyclopedia rules and did not manage to get many of the Gazzetters can anybody tell me where to get them??? As i dont want to tie up the mailing list with information you probaly already know please feel free to mail me direct :: harmony@harmonysplace.demon.co.uk as you probaly noticed I'm a uk resident so places outside the uk that don't do mail order are not too useful. thanks in advance. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 20:01:41 PDT From: "Buck Satan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Spellkin spell level? Does anyone have an idea of what spell level would be appropriate for creating spellkins (from the World In Flames scenario)? It's a Glantrian spell which I'm thinking of using IMC. I was thinking around 5th or 6th level, but I'd like some suggestion. For those of you wondering what the hell I'm talking about, the World In Flames scenario can be found on Stan's site, under adventures and campaigns. Help, anyone? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #304 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, July 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 305 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars [MYSTARA] - Willingham Ads Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars [MYSTARA] - Ebay: Champions of Mystara at low prices! R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:36:38 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:43:42 -0400, "Christian Constantin" wrote: >Sharon Dornhoff wrote: >The two origins aren't mutually incompatible. Just assume that it took the >Ethies quite a while to cross over from Skothar (3000 BC) to the Brunnish >steppes (~2200 BC), and it works out all right. Since the area they >started out in -- Blackmoor -- was freezing over after the GRoF, and the >glacial ice sheets of Brun were just starting to melt, they could've >traveled over the ocean's ice cap, Eskimo-style, and not even realized >they'd left land. < Well, that's approximately the twist I thought to use IMC. But, I'd rather think that they would have used the bridges linking Skothar and Brun on both sides of the Frosthaven Sea (see the precataclysmic map in HW), but that's details. > Ok, let me join and put forth my take on this matter, which could also explain something on the first inhabitants of the proto-Alphatian continent. IMO the Ethies and the Jennites come from the same ethnic group, but instead of advocating a migration from Skothar to Brun I imagined that the cradle of their civilization was somewhat in the middle between the two continents: the proto-alphatian contintent. They lived in the northern part and were a society of hunter/gatherers, rather wild if compared with the southern dwellers who had already established permanent settlements in the XXVIII century BC. A great war followed between these two cultural groups (I say two groups but in fact the northmen were in fact divided into many small tribes and the southern state was comprised of many city-states) and it ended with many of the northern tribes chased away from their territories. Following their leaders they chose to relocate both west and east of Alphatia, riding on the great earth-bridges that connected the three continents at those times, and so they arrived in Skothar and later in the Ethengar steppes as well. The southern lords were displaced much later, with the Alphatians' arrival, and some sailed south colonizing Ochalea while others fled to Skothar forming the great Oriental kingdoms.. This way I try to explain without too much resorting to genetic combinations and breeding habits the similarities between the four ethnic groups (Ethies, Jennites, Ochaleans, Chung-Yuanese) mentioned. Obviously the geographical barriers and time then created cultural, linguistic and genetic differences in these groups, but they all still retain some comune features. Just another thought on the matter ;) DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:59:41 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers Hello Harmony! I dont think this topic has been discussed to death (yet :), so i'm posting it on the list. Questions or comments can be sent to the list or to me in private. The Gazetteers are going to be tricky to find, but not impossible. If you havent already, try some of the larger gaming stores in the UK. If you dont live far from London, dropping by some of the stores there might be a good idea. It is also possible to buy products online at these sites: http://www.dragonscroll.com Dragonscroll http://www.hitpointe.com The Hit Pointe http://www.amazon.com Amazon Books (There is a UK version of this one) http://www.outer-realms.com Outer Realms Gaming http://members.aol.com/aleeder454 Aaron Leeder's Out of Print Games http://www.dragontrove.com Dragontrove http://www.crazyegor.com Crazy Egor's http://www.titan-games.com Titan Games http://www sagesguild.com The Sages' Guild http://www.math.auth.gr/~bchr/Bookst.html Links with a number of stores, some of which are included above http://www.Ebay.com (online auction house) I havent tried any of these stores myself, but I've had them recommended by several people on web. Hope this helps Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 20:00:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars On Sun, 25 Jul 1999, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >Could be an answer, another way of putting it would be to have the Rakastas > >created by a mage of that proto-Ethengar culture as "guinea pigs" for the > >exploration of space. > > Bruce's Dragon article about the various breeds of rakasta has already > accounted for their race's origin, I'm afraid. But the question of how the > heck they got to the invisible moon is still unresolved, AFAIK. Is it just me who likes to have several theories explaining these phenomena to confuse my players? :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:21:36 -0500 From: "Daniel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Ads Does anyone remember the old D&D comic ads that Bill Willingham did for D&D years ago? I've found one I've never seen before, involving a gnome, ranger & flying ship. Anyone seen this or the ones before/after it? I've seen the ones with the fighter/mage/elf/cleric but not the ranger/gnome..... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:11:34 +0100 From: "Harmony" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers My Thanks Mr Garrison *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:23:32 +0100 From: "Harmony" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gazzatteers Wow ! thanks again for the QUICK responses Now all i need to do is find the money.................Hmm! Adventures Required for one Days Work : Venue: Darokin National Bank Task : Removals Skills required: Pick locks 70% + Alignments: Chaotic Good anyone interested in a bank heist let me know!!!!!!! This Cunning plan was sponsered by Baldric *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:05:58 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >This way I try to explain without too much resorting to genetic >combinations and breeding habits the similarities between the four ethnic >groups (Ethies, Jennites, Ochaleans, Chung-Yuanese) mentioned. Obviously >the geographical barriers and time then created cultural, linguistic and >genetic differences in these groups, but they all still retain some comune >features. I like your idea of a common pre-Alphatia cradle for these peoples. It isn't totally opposed to what Sharon has proposed earlier since a branch of that first group may have adopted the Blackmoorian technology. However, IMHO the Jennites are better kept apart from the Ethies/Ochalean/Oriental Realms filliation. Even if they are nomads many traits (names, dress, etc.) aren't that compatible with the ones of the more oriental cultures. > >Just another thought on the matter ;) And a really interesting one, thanks! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 10:33:55 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ebay: Champions of Mystara at low prices! Hi everyone! I was skimming thru Ebay and couldn't but notice this incredible offer for Champions of Mystara boxed sets! Since I already have it, I thought to inform u! Check out these sites and make quick offers if you're interested!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=134679428 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=136072060 DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:18:37 +0200 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail Well...I think your friend's not the only one to put a chain mail and swim... I've seen at least two documentaries where skin - divers wore chain mails in order to be protected against mako sharks (Obviously that don't work against the big white one...) I think the problem with most metal armors (I'm thinking about plates) is that there's not much free space inside to room air in and there're not watertight...should they had enough space for air in them (and be watertight, so water doesn't flow in), I think it'll float. (Think about ships...they're made of metal, but even when they're still, they don't sink...why?...because they've enough air in them!...The same for submarines... they've compartments where they've air and they let flow in water when they want to "sink"). Chain mail has not this, but I don't think it's heavy as a plate and it's more flexible...so you can swim with it... Skarm The Warlock - -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Markus Olavi Montola A: Mystarophiles assembled Data: mercoledì 7 luglio 1999 23.40 Oggetto: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail >A friend of mine, who has made himself a chainmail (long-sleeved IIRC) >tried once swimming in armor. He said, that if the water is calm, it is >relatively easy (though tiresome) to swim even with a chain mail. > > > - Markus > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > W A R I S P E A C E > F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y > I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >************************************************************************** * >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:44:41 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars > However, IMHO the >Jennites are better kept apart from the Ethies/Ochalean/Oriental Realms >filliation. Even if they are nomads many traits (names, dress, etc.) aren't >that compatible with the ones of the more oriental cultures. > I agree that Jennites don't fit the Oriental motif, very well. The HW books portray them as Scythians, not Eastern Asiatics. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #305 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, July 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 306 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art RE: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail [MYSTARA] - update of my site. Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art RE: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art [MYSTARA] - Joshuan's Treasure Map Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art [MYSTARA] - Site Update - New Map! Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:49:14 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail >Well...I think your friend's not the only one to put a chain mail and >swim... >I've seen at least two documentaries where skin - divers wore chain mails >in order to be protected against mako sharks (Obviously that don't work >against the big white one...) The only problem with that is that the divers in question were presumably also wearing wetsuits, under the armor. (Chainmail would be pretty darned uncomfortable on bare skin!) A wetsuit is so bouyant that you need to wear heavy SCUBA gear AND a weight-belt, in order to submerge yourself; as for divers with shark-suits on, they probably just cut back on the poundage of their belts. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:34:36 -0500 From: Daniel Subject: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:34:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art On Tue, 27 Jul 1999, Daniel wrote: > Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? Yep I did. I have no idea what youre talking about. Sorry :) Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:30:53 -0700 From: "Paul L. Ming" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art > Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? Hiya. Yes. I remember them. They are quite cool. I believe they are only in Mavel comics. ^_^ Denakhan the Arch-Mage *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:55:58 -0700 From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: RE: R: [MYSTARA] - Chainmail > The only problem with that is that the divers in question > were presumably also wearing wetsuits, under the armor. > (Chainmail would be pretty darned uncomfortable on bare > skin!) A wetsuit is so bouyant that you need to wear > heavy SCUBA gear AND a weight-belt, in order to submerge > yourself; as for divers with shark-suits on, they probably > just cut back on the poundage of their belts. I'd also guess that the chainmail was made of much lighter and stronger material than is available to medieval technology. Perhaps aluminum or titaniam or something. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:38:55 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - update of my site. just a quick note to inform you that my site has been updated with a big map of Hulean territorries (based on Christian Constantin own map). thib http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:58:23 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art > >> Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? > > Yes. I remember them. They are quite cool. I believe they are only in >Mavel comics. > >Denakhan the Arch-Mage Wait a minute - are those the ads that had Indel the elf, Saren the cleric(?), and Valerius the fighter? I remember one comic where green slime ate the fighter's sword, and another where a dragon said to Indel, "Greetings, mortal worm!" If so, I remember those!! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 21:28:47 -0500 From: Daniel Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. Geoff Gander wrote: > > > >> Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? > > > > Yes. I remember them. They are quite cool. I believe they are only in > >Mavel comics. > > > >Denakhan the Arch-Mage > > Wait a minute - are those the ads that had Indel the elf, Saren the > cleric(?), and Valerius the fighter? I remember one comic where green > slime ate the fighter's sword, and another where a dragon said to Indel, > "Greetings, mortal worm!" > > If so, I remember those!! :-) > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:47:27 -0400 From: "Simon B. Sinister" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art I'd love to see them -- it's been a long time! I always figured Willingham stopped working for TSR when he starting writing and illustrating games for FGU, but I wasn't sure. Still, he did some wonderful artwork for D&D and AD&D, and those ads were a large part of my initial interest in the game(s)! SIMON B. SINISTER - -----Original Message----- From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com [mailto:owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Daniel Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 10:29 PM To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 04:12:10 -0700 From: "Patrick Sullivan" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Joshuan's Treasure Map I've been looking at the map on p. 126 of Joshuan's Almanac, and I'm trying to figure out how to use it. I've come up with several ideas that I'd like to bounce off everyone, and I'd appreciate any suggestions that anyone can give me for using it. First off, I'm torn as to what exactly the "kingdom lost" should be. I'm thinking about using the city of Tuma in (B8). I like this adventure, but I'm not sure exactly how to fit it into the area portrayed in the map or alter it to fit the couplets. Another thought was using the Sheyallia elves. This has several advantages: it means that the tree could represent either the lost Sheyallia tree of life or one of the Guardian trees of Ulimwengu. It also would make sense as far as returning "to lands kiss't by sun," as the adventure's goal could be rescuing the elves from Graakhalia (or perhaps just helping them repel humanoid invasion--they might not want to be "rescued," although a pushy Alfheimer would think it simply absurd). I don't think the couplets should refer to Nithia itself, since the Nithians would hardly be writing poetry about their own destruction. I also thought about placing it somewhere in the Savage Coast where it refers to some ancient lost civilization of one of the local races. Or perhaps I could place it on the Isle of Dread, but I haven't read through that module in a couple years, so I'm not sure how well it would fit. Physical placement is another problem, since there aren't many coasts shaped similarly to the one in the map. I'm thinking it could fit fairly easily into the coastline of the Savage Baronies or, if we assume that the map represents a fairly small area, one of the islands of Ierendi or the Thanegioth Archipelago. I've also come up with an alternate explanation that will allow the map to be used in a lot more places: the map is inaccurate due to baseless assumptions by those who copied it. What appears to be a compass rose in Joshuan's is actually a Nithian directional arrow, representing the sun (the big stylized sunburst in the center) on it's track (the spearheads protuding from each side) with a directional arrow at top pointing in the direction of the sun's trek across the sky (west--but mistaken for a Thyatian "N" by a translator). I believe this makes sense, because the Nithian culture would obviously recognize the significance of the sun, and West would naturally be "up" for them, since the River Nithia flowed Eastward from near Selenica to the Sea of Dawn. So few Nithian maps have been discovered that this is all but unknown (or perhaps completely forgotten--don't underestimate the spell of oblivion) among mortals, and it is no longer done in the Hollow World, where the sun is always stationary and the new River Nithia flows from north to south. Using this alternate explanation, somewhere in Soderfjord could easily be made to fit the map, with it's varied terrains and fjords that could easily be heart-shaped. I think my favorite placement, though, is somewhere on the east coast of the Serpent Peninsula. This fits particularly well for several reasons: the coastline in this area has changed fairly significantly as terrain sank beneat the sea (cf. X6 Quagmire!), so it could have matched the map 1500 years ago and look completely different now; there was a Nithian presence in this area (see the tips for using Quagmire! in the Champions of Mystara Explorer's Manual); placing it on the Serpent Peninsula allows for either a guardian tree or the Sheyallia Tree of Life to make sense; and I just like Yavdlom a lot ;~) The biggest problem with a Yavdlom location is that the apparent destination opposite the heart-shaped bay seems to be a rugged mountain range--and the Serpent peninsula doesn't have one. I'm thinking if I use the Sheyallia scenario I could have one of the three paths lead the party to a cave system which could take them to the foot of the Black Mountains (a rather long walk, I know) near an entrance to Graakhalia. "The right way at twelve..." seems perhaps to imply that the path straight ahead (at 12 o'clock) must be the last of the three paths, but I don't think the Nithians had clocks. I'm really not sure how i'm going to use this yet, but I'd appreciate any ideas that anyone can give me, particularly if you've used this map in your own campaign. Thanks Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 07:45:54 -0500 From: onesimus@postoffice.swbell.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art I'd be intrested in a copy of those scans (always intrested in good "Gotcha" humor) Spencer Daniel wrote: > yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and > ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. > > Geoff Gander wrote: > > > > > > >> Ok, did no one see the msg I posted about the Willingham ads? > > > > > > Yes. I remember them. They are quite cool. I believe they are only in > > >Mavel comics. > > > > > >Denakhan the Arch-Mage > > > > Wait a minute - are those the ads that had Indel the elf, Saren the > > cleric(?), and Valerius the fighter? I remember one comic where green > > slime ate the fighter's sword, and another where a dragon said to Indel, > > "Greetings, mortal worm!" > > > > If so, I remember those!! :-) > > > > Geoff > > > > -- > > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > > Carnifex Loremaster > > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:06:46 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art >yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and >ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. I'd be interested. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:08:08 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Site Update - New Map! Hello all, Just a quick note to say my geocities site has been updated once more, this time with a new map (more a sketch) depicting where Lhomarr was located relative to Davania, in response to some questions I've received lately. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:16:48 -0700 From: Eleanor Williams Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art I also would be interested! Just recently found this site and joined. Been using Mystara for quite some time now. Geoff Gander wrote: > >yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and > >ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. > > I'd be interested. > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 08:56:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art What the hay--I'm always greedy for for D&D memorabilia ;-)--so sign me up too. Shane > Daniel wrote: > > > yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found > one that fetured a gnome and > > ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to > scan it and send it to peple. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:57:21 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars At 05:52 PM 7/24/99 -0400, au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) wrote: > >This is a neat idea! IMC, I just made the Ethengarians the direct >descendants of the Peshwah horse warriors. Despite the cataclysms of the >GRoF, their horse-based culture remained essentially intact (and indeed, >this is what might have saved them in the end). Another branch fled south >to the great plains of Skothar, and later mixed with some migrating Oltecs >to produce the Jennites. This is what I do as well, and it seems to work out pretty well, particularly given the names of certain tribes- in particular the Bortai clan(Peshwah) and the Bortak clan (Ethengar). Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #306 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, July 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 307 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art [MYSTARA] - one more update. [MYSTARA] - Minions of the Devourer [MYSTARA] - test ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 22:55:13 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars At 05:52 PM 7/24/99 -0400, Sharon Dornhoff wrote: > >Well, if you go by the history of Patera that's presented on Stan's >Archive, Ochalea was invaded and annexed by Oriental rakastas from the >invisible moon back in 800 BC, shortly after the Ochalean colony was >founded. These Paterans were later driven out by the continental >Alphatians, who re-asserted their rule over the (previously independent) >Ochaleans; but the legacy of the rakastas' culture persisted among the >island's humans, even as the retreating rakastas took home Alphatian ideas >of imperialism and founded the nation of Myoshima. I was the original poster of that particular timeline, and the Rakasta-inspired Oriental culture of the Ochaleans was my suggestion and implementation. The main reason for this, of course, was to explain how two cultures that were so remote ended up so similar, and I am sort of fond of it as it stands. I think, though, that my theory was that the Rakasta actually adopted the indigenous Ochalean culture, even as they dominated the "mere" humans who lived on that island. It could very easily work either way, though. For the record, though, I would make an amendment to the "return" of the "Oriental" Rakasta to Patera. As I have it now, the Alphatians transport them to the invisible moon with their vast abilities. Instead (and when I get around to working more with Patera, I'll amend this), I'd say that it was a "Hollow World" effect. The Rakasta, threatened with extermination by the Alphatian/Ochalean alliance, were transported by the Immortals (particularly Ka and Basteh) to Myoshima on Patera, where they set up their Empire as it currently stands. >This, of course, leaves us wondering how Patera became an Oriental realm in >the first place! My guess is that the invisible moon, like the Ethengar >steppes, has strong cross-planar links to the Spirit World, and it's from >there that the Far Eastern elements of both cultures can ultimately be >traced. I would strongly agree with this sentiment, particularly given the Sindhi/Rajahstan connections elsewhere on Patera. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:47:13 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art In a message dated 28/07/99 01:59:11 GMT Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > Wait a minute - are those the ads that had Indel the elf, Saren the > cleric(?), and Valerius the fighter? I remember one comic where green > slime ate the fighter's sword, and another where a dragon said to Indel, > "Greetings, mortal worm!" > > If so, I remember those!! :-) Me too - I read those some time before I actually played the game. When a friend asked if I played the D&D game, I answered "oh, that's the thing with Indel the Elf in it", all nonchalantly. Show's how much I knew. Ah, the memories....;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:47:16 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art In a message dated 28/07/99 17:02:05 GMT Daylight Time, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > What the hay--I'm always greedy for for D&D memorabilia ;-)--so sign me > up too. And me, if you please. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:48:41 -0400 From: Sharon Dornhoff Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Origins of the Ethengars >For the record, though, I would make an amendment to the "return" of the >"Oriental" Rakasta to Patera. As I have it now, the Alphatians transport >them to the invisible moon with their vast abilities. Instead (and when I >get around to working more with Patera, I'll amend this), I'd say that it >was a "Hollow World" effect. The Rakasta, threatened with extermination by >the Alphatian/Ochalean alliance, were transported by the Immortals >(particularly Ka and Basteh) to Myoshima on Patera, where they set up their >Empire as it currently stands. The only problem with that -- at least, for me personally -- is that I'D planned to put some pre-Imperial rakastas from the Myoshiman islands (=MAinu) into the Hollow Moon! Having the Immortals uproot one culture of cat-people from Patera to Matera, just so they can install another endangered group on the invisible moon, seems like a little too much reshuffling and/or favoritism on Ka's part. I'd rather stick with the notion that the rakasta warlords left Ochalea in the same way their ancestors came: by flying tiger. >>This, of course, leaves us wondering how Patera became an Oriental realm in >>the first place! My guess is that the invisible moon, like the Ethengar >>steppes, has strong cross-planar links to the Spirit World, and it's from >>there that the Far Eastern elements of both cultures can ultimately be >>traced. > >I would strongly agree with this sentiment, particularly given the >Sindhi/Rajahstan connections elsewhere on Patera. If the pachydermion and rakasta Immortals from Patera, Ganetra and Kata Ng, have played a role in the cultural development of Sind, this could account for the South Asian elements' appearing on both worlds. That would mean that the Spirit World contacted Patera in the ancient past -- perhap the "invisible moon" effect creates portals to their plane, as with the Land of Black Sand -- and gave it its Oriental motif. The Rajastani Immortals later "imported" M-Indian culture to Sind, while the Spirit World's breaking through to the steppe in the GRoF turned the Ethengars into M-Mongols. Finally, Ochalea's subjugation by Pateran tiger-riders transformed the local Cypri -- who'd previously been Alphatian in their culture, albeit with a bent towards clericy and mysticism -- into M-Chinese. For those who have adopted the 'Skothar = Asia" motif, of course, connections to the Spirit World and to Patera's Immortals can also account for those regions' similarities. :-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 23:10:19 +0200 From: Erewan Laubgaenger Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Willingham Art Daniel wrote: > yes, there was a whole series for it.....I found one that fetured a gnome and > ranger...if anyone is intreasted I was going to scan it and send it to peple. i want to have it. if you have both then i would have them both. sorry maybe you have send them to the others, but i am coming home to day - from spain. please send them to me. thanks IBON *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 00:32:46 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - one more update. Just a quick note to inform you that the last map of the Savage coast in 8 miles per hex is now available. thib http://perso.club-internet.fr/thibsylv/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:25:36 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Minions of the Devourer In my AD&D campaign Acererak the Devourer defeated the brave heroes that delved into the Tomb of Horrors and used the soul energy he had been collecting to empower himself and propel himself into the ranks of the Immortals. His chosen servants of the planes are his servitor Minions, the souls of high level followers transformed into frightening creatures that can better serve their dark master's plans. Minion of the Devourer Climate/Terrain: Any Frequency: Very Rare Organization: Solitary Activity Cycle: Any Diet: Nil Intelligence: 14-19 (High to Supra-) Treasure: V Alignment: Chaotic Evil No. Appearing: 1 Armor Class: 0 Movement: 12 Hit Dice: 12 THAc0: 9 No. of Attacks: 3 Damage/Attack: 3d4+5/1d6+5/2d4+7 Special Attacks: Disease, Spells, Tail Wrap Special Defenses: See below Magic Resistance: 25% Size: Man-sized (5-6' tall) Morale: Fearless (20) XP Value: 17,000 Minions of the Devourer are 6' tall human-shaped creatures with beautiful, emotionless elven or human faces. The resemblance to living creatures ends there however; their bodies are covered in wrinkled, rotting skin and bony plates. Yellowed bone-spikes project from the bone plates, giving them a fearsome appearance. Their eyes are two small points of sickly green and they possess a bony tail almost 10' long that ends in a wickedly spiked pincher the length of a short sword. Although they possess the form of a humanoid, being bipedal with two legs and 2 hands, their left hand possesses a projection of 3 bony daggers outward from the wrist. Combat: Minions of the Devourer are savage and without mercy. They are all exceptionally strong, with a strength score of 18/91, recieving a +2 bonus to hit and +5 to damage. The wicked strikes of a Minion's dagger-claws inflict 3d4+5 points of damage and their deadly pincher-tail may be used to either stab or snap on an opponent for 1d6+5 points. Opponents of size M or smaller that are hit with the snap attack will entangled the next round unless they break free, requiring a successful open doors roll. If the target is entangled, he may attempt to break free with a bend bars/lift gates check once per round. The tail may attack opponents in any direction, but attacks out of the Minion's area of sight are at -2. If attacked specifically, the tail has an AC of 2 and can sustain 20 hit points of damage before being severed. In addition to these attacks, Minions are usually armed with a conventional melee weapon with which it can attack with. These are usually a jagged-edged bone long sword (wt 4, size M, sf 3, dmg 2d4/2d6) and are +2 enchanted weapons. The bare handed touch of a Minion can be dangerous. If hit, the target must save versus poison with a -2 penalty or contract a deadly rotting disease. The character won't show any signs of being afflicted with any disease, but after 1d10 days the character will begin losing 1 point of constitution and charisma per day thereafter. If either score reaches 0, the character moulders and falls into a pile of rotted flesh. Before the onset period ends, a cure disease by any level caster will end it. After the disease takes hold, only a remove curse and cure disease spells, cast in that order by at least a 12th level caster, will halt the process. Lost scores will return at the rate of 1 point per day of bedrest, but the character will have lost 1 point permanently from each score. Magical healing will not speed up the process or restore lost points. Minions are immune to all forms of cold and normal fire, sleep, charm and hold spells and effects. They cannot be affected by any form of mind or emotion control and are immune death magic attack forms and spells. Minions take half damage from magical fire, slashing or peircing weapons and regenerate 3 hit points per round. Only weapons of +2 or greater enchantment can harm them. Against attacks that affect bone specifically, they save at -2 and suffer double damage, where applicable Minions cast spells as 12th level priests, with access to the all, chaos, healing (reversed only) and necromancy spheres. They may be turned as specials, but can never be controlled or destroyed. Once per day a Minion can plane shift at will. Habitat/Society: Minions of the Devourer are planar creatures from the negative material plane. When they are encountered on any other plane, they are performing a specific task in the service of their diety. Being undead, they have no social needs and contribute nothing to the places they visit. If two or more encounter each other, they may join forces for a short time to ensure the success of another Minion's mission before returning to their own tasks. Ecology: Minions of the Devourer are the transformed souls of creatures the Devourer has hold on that were at least 12th level in their class before they died. The process involves bathing the soul in an energy bath of focused negative energy and several arcane rituals of binding and animation. Each minion knows its place and obeys their dark diety without question; they know their place as servants of the Devourer are the higest the faithful of the diety has. They have no natural place in the world and give nothing back to the areas they visit, leaving a wake of death and destruction wherever they go. Jim Bobb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:16:56 +0200 From: "renadia" Subject: [MYSTARA] - test Test. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #307 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.