From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #404 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 404 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Translation English-French [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? [MYSTARA] - Question of value Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value Loki vs Bozdogan (was Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View on Loki/ Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the Faeries? Re: [MYSTARA] - update of the site [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: Loki vs Bozdogan (was Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View onLoki/ Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient RE: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) Re: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:15:11 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Translation English-French is this trash talking? redrobyne a écrit: > Merde! > > I'm sorry I had to get my one cuss word that I know in a foreign language > out. > > Stewart 3 > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Then the Mapping zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finnally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:16:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) - --- "Murphy, Jason" wrote: > Yup...i managed to get a copy of the green cover B3 > recently for a mere $7 > australian. An absolute bargain in my book :) > Especially as i rate this module and and the Rahasia > one as the best basic > modules produced...actually they are posibly my fave > module ever released. > I wasn't nearly as impressed w/ Palace of the Silver Princess as Rahasia. Rahasia was really good but it doesn't really fit the vibe of Mystara all that well, IMO. Still, it's a killer module. My instant personal fave is B10: Night's Dark Terror. I just got my copy in the mail over the weekend and was completely amazed. The level of detail is unparalleled... it competes w/ the Gazetteers as far as info & background and blows 'em all away when it comes to maps. Most of Northern Karameikos is mapped out at 3miles/hex(!). The story is completely epic! Fisrt rate stuff from the same guys at TSR/UK who did CM6: Where Chaos Reigns and O2: Blade of Vengeance, also superior modules. Needless to say, I was very impressed even for the ungodly sum of cash I parted with for it. auf wiedersehen, Damon === If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:19:05 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? I've noticed throughout my travels in the worlds and realms that many of us exist in, that there are a certian, let's say, archeotype that seem to prefer this sort of game. Many of us here in fact, are set in our ways and cannot begin to comprehend themindless drivel we put others through in our attempt to preserve that which is nearly dead already. What I am specifically addressing, are the OD&D bigots out there that feel the need to stick 100% to the rules spoon fed to them by a few people in the marketing department of a company that has been bought twice over now. There are those of you who read these books as if they were the Bible or something, a divine writing sent to you by the Immortals in search of perfection, when even the stupidest moron can see the obvious flaws, contradictions, and shortcomings in them. When a new idea is offered that can increase gaming pleasure, or at least put some new ideas on the table, don't step on the creative genes we were all given. Either accept it, and possibly incorporate it into the campaign, or say, "it's not for me" and work on your own way to spice things up. Face it, this console was designed several years ago, and instead of trying to bash the attempts made at fixing it, we should rejoice in the additions, the alterations, and welcome the new. The world of Mystara, while it in itself falls into the category of nearly dead (in the marketing eye that is) is far from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if there are those that want to adapt a new class to it, or change an existing one, don't smite them for it! I've said my piece, now lets hear yours. I'll be waiting . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:19:45 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question of value What is the value of a mint condition still in shrink wrap copy of the Judges Guild product: Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign? ASEO out *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:30:47 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value What is this? I have never heard of this. Does it have anything to do with Blackmoor of Mystara? - -- On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:19:45 Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX wrote: >What is the value of a mint condition still in shrink wrap copy of the >Judges Guild product: Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign? > >ASEO out >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:32 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Loki vs Bozdogan (was Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View on Loki/ Don't forget the even simplier solution. Bozdogan is NOT Loki, and Loki is NOT Bozdogan. Many people blindly follow Mystara material without thinking. It is common sense to anyone that Bozdogan cannot be related with Loki, and that their priorities could conflict. The blind following of Mystara will no doubt someone try to justify this by making up all kinds of wild justifications, but this still cannot deny common sense. What I see happen is that the creators of Mystara strived for simplicity, but at the same time they sacrificed basic continuity in some regards. This is such the case of Bozdogan and Loki. The solution is to: 1) Substitute alternative god(s), 2) Seperate Bozdogan and Loki 3) Create a dramatic and/or imaginative story, or 4) Create bizarre justificiations. On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 10:27:44 Aaron E Nowack wrote: > This cameabout because I never could understand the differences between >the prankster Loki and the evil mastermind Bozdogan. It just dosen't >make sense to me how they ould be the same. So this is my way to explain >it away without simply saying they're different. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:55:30 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Where are the Faeries? >conquest of Alfheim, whatever happened to the Fairy Court? > >Here are my ideas on the matter: > >1. They are still there. The Dreamlands after all don't belong completely in >the Prime Plane, and exist somewhere between dimensions. The faeries don't >have the same understanding as mortals do with regards to geography or >politics, and they would still play their games and pranks on the new >inhabitants of the forest, although they find these elves less fun than the >old elves. Where does it say tha the DreamLand is some other dimension? I like this idea, but I cannot find this anywhere in the texts. If things were played out, the fairy court would most likely be in the same spot, and the tree would still be an interdimension gateway of some sorts. However this gateway might not be functionality, as other nodes of the forest stops functioning. The fairy, would probaly wage war upon the Shadow Elves, as they would be scene as the defilers of nature. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:56:42 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - update of the site I don't like the website because it has those pop-up windows that annoy the crap out of me. Just thought I would let you know. Use angelfire or something. They only have a popup on the first page. - -- On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:08:34 thibault sarlat wrote: >hello fellow mystara maniacs. >just a note to inform you that i have added the names and boundaries on >3 of my last maps: >Alphatia. >Bellissaria east. >Bellissaria west. > >I hope you would find them more attractive and easy to use. >I would update some other tomorow. > >thib > >-- >Thibault Sarlat >ICQ 16622177. >Check out my sites : >The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi >Then the Mapping zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi >And finnally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi > > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:29:23 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! Hey guys! Someone's posted B1-9 to Ebay, and it's presently at around $7.00 US. Just figured that some of you might be interested. By the way, I'll post that stuff on Oceania / Orient in a few days. Would anyone be interested in discussing those settings (list or private)? Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:09:52 -0500 From: "The Rusty" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Hey Kevin, my name is Rusty....new to the list about a week ago, and I would love to discuss this with you. I am so glad to see that Mystara is alive and well. I do have one question for the group, what year is it in your worlds? I was thinking of starting my party (a new campaign, all veteran roleplayers) at about 1006 to let them get involved in the war. Thoughts? Feelings? Complaints? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Powers To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 6:29 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! > Hey guys! Someone's posted B1-9 to Ebay, and it's presently at around > $7.00 US. Just figured that some of you might be interested. > > By the way, I'll post that stuff on Oceania / Orient in a few days. > Would anyone be interested in discussing those settings (list or > private)? > > Kevin > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:30:03 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard >> I think assuming elves are concerned to the petty political affairs of humans is is showing typical Thyatian arrogance. >> >Well, I suggest you re-read the entry on the County of Vyalia in Dawn of >the Emperor box, and *then* tell me those elves are not interested in >Thyatis. Sure thing. I think the term I used before is mutual cooperation for mutual benefit. But this does not mean going to war for humans. That is ubsurd. Do you have a passage you are referencing that Elves will go to war for humans??? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:30:03 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard >> I think assuming elves are concerned to the petty political affairs of humans is is showing typical Thyatian arrogance. >> >Well, I suggest you re-read the entry on the County of Vyalia in Dawn of >the Emperor box, and *then* tell me those elves are not interested in >Thyatis. Sure thing. I think the term I used before is mutual cooperation for mutual benefit. But this does not mean going to war for humans. That is ubsurd. Do you have a passage you are referencing that Elves will go to war for humans??? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:33:54 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard as an elf, i would say basically a big HELL NO to the idea of going to war for a human, even an "honorable" human, if such a specimin does exist. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:11:23 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Loki vs Bozdogan (was Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View onLoki/ <> <> I, and at least a few other members of the list, can easily understand that Bozdogan and Loki are one and the same. Personally, I enjoy the fact that the same immortals are understood differently in dfferent cultures (remember, Ixion is an immortal of death!). If Bozdogan and Loki are incompatible in your campaign, then by all means make them different immortals. I simply don't understand why there is suddenly such a hostile opinion on both the MML and the MMB about those who try to keep their campaigns generally in line with TSR-produced material. Personally, any time I post anything to either forum I am more than willing to hear arguments against it or arguments for improving it, primarily because my knowledge of Mystara products is incomplete and, if I am posting anything in public, I try to keep it generally in line with the standardized Mystara on which most of our campaigns are more or less based. I cannot speak for everyone on the list, but if I have offered comments in this vein when they were not wanted I certainly offer my apologies. Certainly anyone is free to ignore any aspect of Mystara, whether from a TSR product or from a fan, but I really am rather disturbed about this hostility to those who attempt to rectify the conflicts within Mystara literature. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:46:28 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient There already was a group that did some work about a M-Orient located on Skothar. Currently, the project seems to be dormant, but it's up to you to revive it. Nevertheless, I recommend you to give a look to what has already been done, you can find it on the following site: http://www.jamm.com/mystara/morient/index.html also, what I've read there inspired me a map of Skothar, which you might find here: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/Graphs/Maps/Skothar.JPG IMHO, it might be better to do something along the lines that have been drawn in earlier MML work, if we don't want to see a proliferation of Oriental cultures in a world that was originally deprived of this type of cultures. However, you are absolutely free to do what you want to do with Oceania! I'm certainly not the one who will stop somebody from doing any kind of work on Mystara :-) Meanwhile, I once was interested to develop a oriental side for Mystara and I'm still interested by the idea, even if Hule takes up most of my Mystaran schedule right now. But if you want to discuss about it then count me in! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin >Hey Kevin, my name is Rusty....new to the list about a week ago, and I would >love to discuss this with you. I am so glad to see that Mystara is alive >and well. I do have one question for the group, what year is it in your >worlds? I was thinking of starting my party (a new campaign, all veteran >roleplayers) at about 1006 to let them get involved in the war. Thoughts? >Feelings? Complaints? >----- Original Message ----- >From: Kevin Powers >To: >Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 6:29 PM >Subject: [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! > > >> Hey guys! Someone's posted B1-9 to Ebay, and it's presently at around >> $7.00 US. Just figured that some of you might be interested. >> >> By the way, I'll post that stuff on Oceania / Orient in a few days. >> Would anyone be interested in discussing those settings (list or >> private)? >> >> Kevin >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> >> > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:09:53 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >also, what I've read there inspired me a map of Skothar, which you might >find here: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/Graphs/Maps/Skothar.JPG I didn't know you made this--it looks great! Makes me wish the MOrient project hadn't stalled... but then again I don't have much spare time to work on it right now. Perhaps the time to revive it is coming up again though... André Martins, one of the original contributors, is back on the MMB again. BTW--welcome to the new members :~) Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:55:05 -0500 From: "Daniel " Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value If memory serves me correctly it's the reprint of the original Blackmoor (back when D&D was the smaller books) - -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Monday, September 20, 1999 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value >What is this? I have never heard of this. Does it have anything to do with Blackmoor of Mystara? >-- > >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:19:45 Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX wrote: >>What is the value of a mint condition still in shrink wrap copy of the >>Judges Guild product: Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign? >> >>ASEO out >>************************************************************************** * >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >>with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> >> > > >HotBot - Search smarter. >http://www.hotbot.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:12:47 EDT From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient In a message dated 9/20/99 11:08:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: << I didn't know you made this--it looks great! Makes me wish the MOrient project hadn't stalled... but then again I don't have much spare time to work on it right now. Perhaps the time to revive it is coming up again though... André Martins, one of the original contributors, is back on the MMB again. BTW--welcome to the new members :~) Patrick >> Any thought to the fact that the DoE set states that the Nuar have dark skin, similar to that found in the black empires of the far east? Anyone else notice this or develop it in any way? BoBoII *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:20:30 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) Unfortunately i dont have B10, otherwise i have a sneaking suspicion i might agree with you :). Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 > -----Original Message----- > From: Damon Brown [SMTP:habgyp@yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:16 AM > To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver > Princess) > > > --- "Murphy, Jason" > wrote: > > Yup...i managed to get a copy of the green cover B3 > > recently for a mere $7 > > australian. An absolute bargain in my book :) > > Especially as i rate this module and and the Rahasia > > one as the best basic > > modules produced...actually they are posibly my fave > > module ever released. > > > I wasn't nearly as impressed w/ Palace of the Silver > Princess as Rahasia. Rahasia was really good but it > doesn't really fit the vibe of Mystara all that well, > IMO. Still, it's a killer module. > My instant personal fave is B10: Night's Dark > Terror. I just got my copy in the mail over the > weekend and was completely amazed. The level of detail > is unparalleled... it competes w/ the Gazetteers as > far as info & background and blows 'em all away when > it comes to maps. Most of Northern Karameikos is > mapped out at 3miles/hex(!). The story is completely > epic! Fisrt rate stuff from the same guys at TSR/UK > who did CM6: Where Chaos Reigns and O2: Blade of > Vengeance, also superior modules. > Needless to say, I was very impressed even for the > ungodly sum of cash I parted with for it. > > auf wiedersehen, > Damon > === > If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' > be another name for a 'Cannibal'? > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > ************************************************************************** > * > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:17:37 +0200 From: Frank Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) I have a B10, but am not so impressed by the story of it... The background material is good, though. But then again, I'm also not impressed by CM6... My personal favorite is still Castle Amber (X2), followed by War rafts of Kron (X7) and Rahasia (B7)... "Murphy, Jason" wrote: > Unfortunately i dont have B10, otherwise i have a sneaking suspicion i > might agree with you :). > > Jason Murphy > Software Engineer > MITS Limited > EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > PHONE: 08 9481 4066 > FAX: 08 9481 4064 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Damon Brown [SMTP:habgyp@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:16 AM > > To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com > > Subject: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver > > Princess) > > > > > > --- "Murphy, Jason" > > wrote: > > > Yup...i managed to get a copy of the green cover B3 > > > recently for a mere $7 > > > australian. An absolute bargain in my book :) > > > Especially as i rate this module and and the Rahasia > > > one as the best basic > > > modules produced...actually they are posibly my fave > > > module ever released. > > > > > I wasn't nearly as impressed w/ Palace of the Silver > > Princess as Rahasia. Rahasia was really good but it > > doesn't really fit the vibe of Mystara all that well, > > IMO. Still, it's a killer module. > > My instant personal fave is B10: Night's Dark > > Terror. I just got my copy in the mail over the > > weekend and was completely amazed. The level of detail > > is unparalleled... it competes w/ the Gazetteers as > > far as info & background and blows 'em all away when > > it comes to maps. Most of Northern Karameikos is > > mapped out at 3miles/hex(!). The story is completely > > epic! Fisrt rate stuff from the same guys at TSR/UK > > who did CM6: Where Chaos Reigns and O2: Blade of > > Vengeance, also superior modules. > > Needless to say, I was very impressed even for the > > ungodly sum of cash I parted with for it. > > > > auf wiedersehen, > > Damon > > === > > If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' > > be another name for a 'Cannibal'? > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > ************************************************************************** > > * > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:37:40 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard This is totally ubsurd. >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #404 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #405 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 405 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard [MYSTARA] - Opinions. Re: [MYSTARA] - Opinions. [MYSTARA] - New D&D computer game [MYSTARA] - Oriental settings [MYSTARA] - Question Re: [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! [MYSTARA] - RE: Opinions [MYSTARA] - Judges guild/Blackmoor/City State of the Invincible Overlord Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Opinions [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:46:46 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: (Someone): > >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current > >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all > >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the > >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not > >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised > >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. > >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. > This is totally ubsurd. I´ve always found that emails with arguments backing up the statements they present are far more interesting than those containing just statements. Come on people, lets try to post things that the rest of the MML actually can take some interest in. I dontr mean to sound rough, but I felt that this needed to be said. Haavard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:23:28 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard I don't know what is absurd about it. Give a reference that they WOULDN'T go to war for Thyatis. They are, after all, given a place in the empire. That place would demand certain responsibilities. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: ; Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard > >> I think assuming elves are concerned to the petty political affairs of humans is is showing typical Thyatian arrogance. > >> > >Well, I suggest you re-read the entry on the County of Vyalia in Dawn of > >the Emperor box, and *then* tell me those elves are not interested in > >Thyatis. > > Sure thing. I think the term I used before is mutual cooperation for mutual benefit. But this does not mean going to war for humans. That is ubsurd. > > Do you have a passage you are referencing that Elves will go to war for humans??? > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:25:33 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard I totally disagree. You haven't really stated what is absurd about it. The elves of Mystara have always been a little more sociable than their snotty otherworld relatives. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:37 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard > > This is totally ubsurd. > > >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current > >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all > >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the > >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not > >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised > >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. > >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. > > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:26:22 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard I agree. Well...that's a kind of argument too...and yet I have nothing backing it up...but still... - ----- Original Message ----- From: Håvard Rønne Faanes To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard > On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > > (Someone): > > >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current > > >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all > > >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the > > >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not > > >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised > > >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. > > >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. > > > This is totally ubsurd. > > I´ve always found that emails with arguments backing up the statements > they present are far more interesting than those containing just > statements. Come on people, lets try to post things that the rest of the > MML actually can take some interest in. > > I dontr mean to sound rough, but I felt that this needed to be said. > > Haavard > > *** > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr > Garrison, South Park. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:57:55 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Opinions. Hello All, First off, let me apologize for a couple of things. 1) For those lists which have "key words" sorry- I wasn't about to go through the keywords for 10 different mailing lists just to post a msg, 2) For cross-posting, those of you who are on multiple lists are going to get this missive in multiplet. My apologies again. Unfortunately, what I have to say is relevant to all of the lists and rather than say it 10 different ways to 10 different groups, I'm saying it once to gamers in general. I'm not posting this for purposes of debate, but more to express a dissatisfaction and see how many others feel the same way. For those who feel the same way that I do about all this, please write me- I'd love to hear from you and maybe discuss alternatives to the problem. A short bit of history, and the problems will reveal themselves I think. I started role-playing in 1975 using a water works game to randomly determine dungeons and dice counters to use as monsters because I'd heard just enough about D&D to get my mind working. By Christmas of 1976 I had the D&D Basic rules boxed set, and started playing that day. It was not long before I made a transition from D&D to AD&D because it made more sense to me in the ability to mix-match classes and races. (For those of you who don't know, "Elf" in D&D meant your class/race was an Elf. The equivalent of an Elven Fighter/Magic-User, "Hobbit" was a Thief, etc.) About 1990, they cancelled Greyhawk as the predominent setting and brought the Realms out. Now, in 2000, WotC is planning to do the same thing again to the Forgotten Realms. While this may be somewhat of a pleasure/relief to Greyhawk gamers, it definitely isn't to those who enjoy the Realms (And no I'm not one of them). Alright, now on to the problems. Those who never played 1st edition because 2nd was already out might wish to take some notes, because many of you will be up on the soapbox one day wishing to hell that you'd listened to this, just like I'm wishing I could remember the talk when we went to 2nd. When 1st edition ended, there were something like 15 hardback books. TSR's statements at the time were that they were going to cut back to two hardbacks and a couple monstrous compendium notebooks. The plan with the notebooks was that each monster would take up a page (Front and back) so that they could be inserted into the books and alphabetized for quick reference. The basic statement was that they were "stream-lining" the system. The truth of the matter turned out to be that TSR was going broke and they needed to boost sales. Putting out 2nd edition and a new world fulfilled that need for them. Not too long ago, statements were made by various TSR staff-members that the Realms, Planescape, and Ravenloft would not be cut with the advent of 3rd edition. Guess what? Bullshit. They've cut Ravenloft. I don't know about the other two, because I'm not as involved in them. Currently, TSR has produced the following worlds: Al-Qadim, Kara-Tur (Both were shifted to the Realms AFTER their inception), Dark-Sun, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Birthright, Mystara, Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljjammer. Out of these, countless dollars were spent on all of these by gamers. Virtually every one of these systems had at least a boxed set and a hardback book to them. Bringing the minimum investment to $60. When you discuss the added product we're talking hundreds of dollars. From 11 stated settings, TSR (as of year 2000) will support 3. What about the gamers in the other settings? Straight-up, they're turning their backs on you. They say "we cannot afford to support every line". Alright, we can handle that... explain this... Why did they stop Mystara? It's reported that it was doing anything but running in the red. What about Ravenloft? The support on that list is almost as strong as it is on the Realms list. I've play-tested 3rd edition, played the game for 23 years, and studied the company for about that long. Has TSR told you that they're "streamlining" the system again? Look at their FAQ on the subject, they've stated 11 books in there that they "might" produced. Stream-lining. I have signed NDA's with WotC and I dropped out of the 3rd ed. play-testing because myself and the rest of my group (a very diverse group of players ranging in age from 16-33 and gaming experience from brand new to 23 years. Fans of 6 different genres, and both sexes). None of us liked the new work. WotC has stated that conversion isn't that difficult. Here's some questions on that fact. 1) I've got 23 years worth of adventures, monsters, npc's, magic items. How many do you have? Try converting them in numbers and power from 2nd edition to any other game system on the market and consider the time involved there. That's what WotC is talking about, 2) How many times have you heard a A BOOK (Emphasis not shouting) to convert from one edition to another in a game? That's what WotC talks about in their FAQ, 3) How many times have you ever heard of needing to buy a book to convert from an old edition to a new one? More often than not, conversion charts are in the new material. While I do have respect for many of the designers that I've met and worked with through WotC, I am finished with AD&D. In MY book- D&D will always be the game that existed before 1st edition, and 3rd edition will never exist !!!!! TSR's history has always been "expand the market" and forget about the customer base that they've already got. If you don't believe it, just ask the fans who've been turned off by their discontinuing any one of the gaming worlds. Maybe in 5 years, after WotC has milked every penny possible out of 3rd edition, I'll come back for a bit and see if Hasbro can do anything to fix the problems. To all of you, who've been great talking to, listening to, arguing with, and wonderful for ideas in my (once) favorite gaming system, and favorite gaming worlds... I guess it's "later"... Feel free to write me at the e-mail address below, maybe one day in the not too distant future, I'll have a mailing list established to cater to those who are boy-cotting WotC/TSR as I will be now. Anyway, finally to those who've been supporting the "dead world" lists- Dark Sun, Mystara, Dragonlance, Greyhawk (until recently), Birthright, Planescape, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, and Ravenloft (as of 2000)- I salute you and fare thee well for those worlds will never die in your hearts and minds. Jesse vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:20:30 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Opinions. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jesse LaBranche To: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 6:57 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Opinions. SNIP SNIP > When 1st edition ended, there were something like 15 hardback books. > TSR's statements at the time were that they were going to cut back to two > hardbacks and a couple monstrous compendium notebooks. The plan with the > notebooks was that each monster would take up a page (Front and back) so > that they could be inserted into the books and alphabetized for quick > reference. > The basic statement was that they were "stream-lining" the system. The > truth of the matter turned out to be that TSR was going broke and they > needed to boost sales. Putting out 2nd edition and a new world fulfilled > that need for them. I don't know about you, but isn't that exactly what happened? TSR cut AD&D down to DM Guide, Players Guide and the Monstrous Compendium. Then come the "optional" expansions which need not be purchased if they don't fit your campaign. For example, all the monster packets for specific worlds such as FR, Ravenloft, and Dragonlance. It was very simple to start playing because there were only the 2 main books. If you wanted more options on a specific class or race, they had the handbooks. Granted it was hard to keep up with all the handbooks, but who really needs ALL of them? Not to mention, the FR world opened a new wave of fantasy novels, most of which are very good. In contrast, how many good books are out for other realms besides the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance? The Mystara books are not up the caliber of the these 2 areas. And again, why should TSR go broke because people who are done purchasing their products might not like the new system? TSR is still a company and its still the best for RPG in the traditional might and magic genre, IMO. If/when TSR goes under, it will be a great loss to the gaming environment. But isn't it true that computers and computer games are severely cutting into the RPG market? When I started playing RPGs, the only pc competition was Atari and Commodore 64. And TSR effectively used these markets to enhance interest in their products with the gold box sets, etc. Now, with all the 3d environment "role-playing" games, why should new young gamers be interested in sitting at a table with no visuals and roll a bunch of dice, when they can all sit at computers and get "into" the game, while still chatting and "adventuring"? This is the downfall of the broad tabletop RPG market. SOoooo.... when TSR can't support a product line, its a shame but you can't really blame them. I can't think of a solution to the problem, either. How do you revive interest and more importantly sales in an old product? > From 11 stated settings, TSR (as of year 2000) will support 3. What > about the gamers in the other settings? Straight-up, they're turning their > backs on you. They say "we cannot afford to support every line". Alright, we > can handle that... explain this... Why did they stop Mystara? It's reported > that it was doing anything but running in the red. What about Ravenloft? The > support on that list is almost as strong as it is on the Realms list. Don't know about the 11 down to 3, but why boycott them for not printing more stuff in your favorite line? All that means is that they will have to cancel more lines. Comments? > I've play-tested 3rd edition, played the game for 23 years, and studied > the company for about that long. Has TSR told you that they're > "streamlining" the system again? Look at their FAQ on the subject, they've > stated 11 books in there that they "might" produced. Stream-lining. > I have signed NDA's with WotC and I dropped out of the 3rd ed. > play-testing because myself and the rest of my group (a very diverse group > of players ranging in age from 16-33 and gaming experience from brand new to > 23 years. Fans of 6 different genres, and both sexes). None of us liked the > new work. Thats interesting, and also a shame. Hopefully the new system will have some merits. I will probably get the new edition, but I probably won't use it unless other players in my group like it, etc. > WotC has stated that conversion isn't that difficult. Here's some > questions on that fact. 1) I've got 23 years worth of adventures, monsters, > npc's, magic items. How many do you have? Try converting them in numbers and > power from 2nd edition to any other game system on the market and consider > the time involved there. That's what WotC is talking about, 2) How many > times have you heard a A BOOK (Emphasis not shouting) to convert from one > edition to another in a game? That's what WotC talks about in their FAQ, 3) > How many times have you ever heard of needing to buy a book to convert from > an old edition to a new one? More often than not, conversion charts are in > the new material. Where else should you find conversion charts? Maybe I don't understand the point, but, are you saying that they should put conversion info into 2nd edition products as to how to move that the 3rd? Or are you suggesting that there will be a separate book only for converting to the new system? My understanding is that when you buy 3rd ed., In the DM guide or Players guide, or both, there will be a section on how to use your older edition stuff. This makes sense to me. Comments anyone? > To all of you, who've been great talking to, listening to, > arguing with, and wonderful for ideas in my (once) favorite gaming system, > and favorite gaming worlds... I guess it's "later"... Feel free to write me > at the e-mail address below, maybe one day in the not too distant future, > I'll have a mailing list established to cater to those who are boy-cotting > WotC/TSR as I will be now. > Anyway, finally to those who've been supporting the "dead world" lists- > Dark Sun, Mystara, Dragonlance, Greyhawk (until recently), Birthright, > Planescape, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, and Ravenloft (as of 2000)- I salute you > and fare thee well for those worlds will never die in your hearts and minds. > Jesse > vanquer@email.msn.com I, too, applaud all the members of this and other lists, and all the creative minds that continue the best of the gaming environments. I, too, have misgivings about WotC. I gave up m:tg because of the pace of expansions. I couldn't keep up and couldn't afford to collect them. Anyway, I know people who have been turned off by TSR and its new editions, but IMO you just take what you like and ignore the rest. Anyway, just my take. Comments; epaynter@iupui.edu Later, Myrkul aka Ed Paynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:24:51 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: [MYSTARA] - New D&D computer game This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BF040A.C6A2B800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this is probably off topic, but the makers of Baldurs Gate have = begun work on a new multi-player environment that can also be used by = DMs to run adventures. Get more details here at: = http://www.neverwinter.net It looks like it will be really cool and allow DMs to create their own = adventures and worlds. Its set up to use 3rd Edition D&D rules, but = otherwise it looks like a great idea/system. Check it out. - ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BF040A.C6A2B800 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I know this is probably off topic, but = the makers=20 of Baldurs Gate have begun work on a new multi-player environment that = can also=20 be used by DMs to run adventures. Get more details here at: http://www.neverwinter.net=
 
It looks like it will be really cool = and allow DMs=20 to create their own adventures and worlds. Its set up to use 3rd Edition = D&D=20 rules, but otherwise it looks like a great idea/system. Check it=20 out.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0059_01BF040A.C6A2B800-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:05:42 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Oriental settings Hello. I have read the responses to the mention of the new Oriental setting. Unfortunately, what I must admit is that the setting which I have created was in large part written long before I ever saw the work of the MOrient team. I essentially created a separate massive continent in the Sea of Steam and put the necessary isles at its periphiary. My problem at this point is that adapting the information written (circa eighty pages, I'll post a summary of it soon) would be an impossible task. As a setting, it would have to be taken or left the way it is... though it could easily be internally modified. My sincerest apologies, for I did not realize that there was such a passion for the MOrient setting. The work which I have done cannot compete in terms of sheer volume of letters (those orient.txt, etc. compilation files are massive!), but I daresay that they are a wee bit more compressed. I would be interested in working with anyone who would like to work further on an oriental setting, be it MOrient or my Orient. At this point, we can't afford to lose any ideas for our world, and I would not be the one to pick conceptual winners and losers. Could the two co-exist? Probably not; as far as I can see they are both attempts to create an entire Oriental spectrum of nations and cultures. Could the two each be used in different campaigns? Yes... What if I ran a campaign that took place in ancient Blackmoor and needed to throw in an exotic traveling band of wu jen to stir things up a bit? I could use my Oriental setting. What if my interpretation on AC1000 Jen settlements does not lend credence to the large empire which would be necessary to occupy much of Skothar? I could use the MOrient setting. BOTH SETTINGS COULD WORK IN DIFFERENT CAMPAIGNS, they would simply be utilized based on circumstance and necessity. For those who asked, I am presently running a 1004 campaign set (currently) in the Azcan Empire, though this is just one of the many stops along the way. I know that some of you loathe Wrath of the Immortals, but for me it is a beautiful epic quest. That's a separate issue from this email, though. |:-) Kevin kjp@student.umass.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:05:46 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Question Hello All, My post regarding TSR's financial situation around the time that 2nd edition was released has been challenged, so I was wondering if any of the "insiders" on this list who were there at the time could confirm or deny my statement on that end? I am posting this to the list, because I know that there are a few "old-timers" from TSR on it. Unfortunately, a recent re-formatting of my HD lost their addys. I can't confirm where I got the information from, so I was hoping to get direct feedback. Anyone? Thanks. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:27:22 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Someone's selling B1-9 In Search Of Adventure! >By the way, I'll post that stuff on Oceania / Orient in a few days. >Would anyone be interested in discussing those settings (list or >private)? > >Kevin I would! I head the Davania team, and since Oceania falls into our little zone, I'm sure I am speaking for the others in the case. :) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:35:56 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - RE: Opinions Hi all, First, it's nice to see Jesse is still alive and well, and it's a shame to see him go. :-( Although I do not quite agree with all of his statements, one thing he did mention - a conversion book - struck a chord of dread in me. This is exactly what Palladium does. Not a pretty sight. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:48:47 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Judges guild/Blackmoor/City State of the Invincible Overlord With the Judges Guild Blackmoor, First Fantasy Campaign, it is now possible to run an entire Pre-destruction campaign. (No need to time travel to run the DA series now) I was wondering if any body out there has ever done this, and if the other Judges Guild products link up with the Judges Guild Blackmoor book? There is some mention of the edges of the Blackmoor maps linking to the Judges Guild "Known World" maps as shown in the City State Campaign guide. ASEO out *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:47:59 -0700 From: "Jesse LaBranche" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - RE: Opinions > Hi all, > First, it's nice to see Jesse is still alive and well, and it's a shame to > see him go. :-( > Although I do not quite agree with all of his statements, one thing he did > mention - a conversion book - struck a chord of dread in me. This is > exactly what Palladium does. Not a pretty sight. > Geoff > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster Hello Geoff, A couple of things. Real quick. I apologize for having been a "lurker" for so long. The new baby (10 mos now), starting a business, moving, and writing a game system have taken up almost all of my time. And no I'm not kicking WotC to promote my own system, I'm writing the system due to my disapproval of WotC's directions with what were my favorite worlds and games. Anyway, that opinions e-mail went directly to 11 TSR mailing lists, not just this one. In all honesty, WotC is completely finished with Mystara and a couple (or few) of the other worlds and I will be staying on whereever WotC isn't. Basically, I am still fully supporting the D&D, 1st and 2nd edition lines and will be continuing selling those products as well as other RPG's. Hoping to start getting hold of some of the more "obscure" products from the various designers of these editions too. Things like Legendary Adventure- EGG, and whatever else I can find from Frank Metzer (sp?), Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, and Harold Johnson, just to name a few. I've been doing some research (not a whole lot with time constraints and all) trying to find out what other products these people wrote, but have had little success other than with Gary's works. The book for conversions was mentioned by Kim Mohan on the FAQ that WotC released on their site regarding 3rd edition, along with 10 other books in their great new "stream-lined" system. I'm kind of curious how everyone on this list feels about the "advanced" being removed from the AD&D 3rd edition though? I mean, my figuring is that it kind of seals the fact that WotC has no plans for the future of D&D period. What are everyone else's thoughts on the matter? Especially the Mystara-writers? Jeff? Later. Jesse. vanquer@email.msn.com http://www.gryffon.com/leta for all your role-playing needs ICQ. 8004143 or 30334260 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:56:32 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign Evidently this was the first (or at least one of the first) Judges Guild product published and it was not done so in great numbers. This 1980, Judges Guild publication is written by Dave Arneson (the author of the DA Series). It contains a 64 page book ant two poster size maps of the Blackmoor region revealing the history and details of the original fantasy role-playing game. Visit the dread Egg of Coot, Loch Gloomen, and the underworld beneath Blackmoor castle. The game started out as fantasy war gaming and the first portion of the book details the various armies that waged war across Blackmoor (Duchy of Ten, Egg of Coot, City of Maus, Earl of Vestfold, and others). The more infamous Characters are detailed (Egg of Coot, The High Duke of Ten ie. #3428-B34-Ex.2, Mello and the Hobbits, others) Information on the City of Blackmoor, including maps of the city and the Haunted, Blackmoor Castle and the 10 levels of it's dungeon. This was at one time to be written into the module DA5 Blackmoor Castle. (Amazon.com actually has DA5 listed as OOP and orderable, even though it was never published) And more. It seems to be the background for several other Judges Guild products and I believe that Judges Guild's adoption of this as a backbone led to its abandonment and destruction as a D&D setting. ASEO out - -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Darknerd [mailto:darknerd@hotbot.com] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 5:31 PM To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Question of value What is this? I have never heard of this. Does it have anything to do with Blackmoor of Mystara? - -- On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:19:45 Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX wrote: >What is the value of a mint condition still in shrink wrap copy of the >Judges Guild product: Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign? > >ASEO out >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #405 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #406 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 406 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Judges guild/Blackmoor/City State of the Invincible Overlord Re: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Arts Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) Re: [MYSTARA] - New D&D computer game Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:47:34 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient One question: The thing I never understood about the MOrient Project is why an MChina in Skothar, when you've got Ochalea? IMHO, Ochalea is very similar to the Han Chinese of central plains China (i.e. not Nepal, Tibet, Manchuria, Mongolia, Taiwan, etc.). I don't think Ochalea is MJapan, and I disagree with the reference to a Shinogawa river or something in the last few Almanacs. Besides, there's an MJapan in Skothar. Answer to my own question: Maybe Ochalea and MChina are like RWChina of different eras and time periods, the way Sind and Shajapur are like RWIndia of different times (Shajapur=16th century Moghal period, Sind=umm... I dunno... not familiar with Indian history). Kevin Powers suggested that Ochalea is like RWChina Confucian period... so... that would make MChina... ummm... hmmm.... Even I would have to hit the history books again on that... I do like the hints that the "pre-Ochaleans" (as I call them) came from Skothar. IMO, the ancient Skothari people were a kind of generic MOriental/MAsian race, some of whom went to Ochalea, most of whom remained, and differentiated into the different MOrient cultures in Skothar. Another question: Dawn of Emperors hints that the Nuari came from the east... and checking my D&D Rules Cyclopedia (my only map of Skothar), the southern coast of Skothar has the Tangor Coast, Gulf of Tangor, Tangor Bay, and the Tangor Jungles... So how do we fit the Tangor/Tanagoro and the MOrientals in the same continent? Have all the Tangor/Tanagoro been transported into the Hollow World, leaving Skothar for the MOrientals to occupy? (Makes sense though...) Anyways, I hope this new interest will jump start the MOrient project! My contribution: I've come up with a listing of Ochalean Immortals, in keeping with RWChinese Buddhist-Taoist-Confucian style of religious philosophy and worship. It can be found in Shawn Stanley's site: http://dnd.starflung.com/och_imm.html (I've also sumbitted an improved more comprehensive article on Ochlaean Immortals and religion in the up and comign Tome of Mystara, and I do hope it comes out on October 1!) http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081/index.html My two tengs worth Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:28:17 -0500 From: "Daniel " Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Judges guild/Blackmoor/City State of the Invincible Overlord If you look back in the EARLY days of D&D (1975 or so) the rulebook, Monster Manual, Deities & Demigods etc were small booklets that came from doing role playing with minitures. One of the books was Blackmoor and offered the first real D&D setting (outside of Gygax's Greyhawk) In the 80s (90s?) The Judge's Guild released a more updated version for AD&D as part of a move to release the original Greyhawk (repenned by Gygax). - -----Original Message----- From: Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX To: 'mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com' Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:49 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Judges guild/Blackmoor/City State of the Invincible Overlord >With the Judges Guild Blackmoor, First Fantasy Campaign, it is now possible >to run an entire Pre-destruction campaign. (No need to time travel to run >the DA series now) I was wondering if any body out there has ever done >this, and if the other Judges Guild products link up with the Judges Guild >Blackmoor book? There is some mention of the edges of the Blackmoor maps >linking to the Judges Guild "Known World" maps as shown in the City State >Campaign guide. > >ASEO out >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:41:28 -0300 From: Victor Caminha Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) >> > I wasn't nearly as impressed w/ Palace of the Silver >Princess as Rahasia. Agreed. I think the storyline is a bit too much overpowered. But with some arragements could make a darn good story :) Rahasia was really good but it >doesn't really fit the vibe of Mystara all that well, >IMO. Still, it's a killer module. Again I agree. Rahasia is a very good module (but i preferred Veiled society and Eye of Traldar..the best IMHO) but the story itself is somewhat loose and too powerful..i think it could be changed well to an expert or even companion module (obviously bolstering the challenges there, of course) >Fisrt rate stuff from the same guys at TSR/UK >who did CM6: Where Chaos Reigns Hurray for this jewel! Along with Legacy of Blood and The endless stairs (to a lesser degree) they were the best CM modules i ever played! Perhaps my only complaint for CM6 was the amount of fighting (the counting of the dead monsters was record) included. []s Victor Caminha "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:57:07 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! I was just reading in PC4 that Lycanthopy was introduced by Alphatia. I really do not like the idea, because it does not seem to make sense. Why did Alphatians have lycanthropy? How did Alphatians get lycanthropy? I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or Gaia. She wanted to create warriors of the forest. However, some warriors were corrupted by [insert favorite Entrophic Immortal here]. This idea makes more sense, and is more fun and exciting. Also, people can use lycanthropy in other timelines and campaigns such as: Hollow World, Nithia, Olmecs, Blackmoor. Any comments? What do people think? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:18:25 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard 1. Elves live for thousands of years and there are oodles of reasons that they would not get involved in human affairs. The GAZ5 has several descriptions of Mystaran Elven attitude. Also, humans constantly shift their borders, etc. Thyatis would be considered a young nation. 2. Elves cannot advanced the same level of the human magic users in both D&D and AD&D. The idea is that elves have minor magical ability, but not to the degree as human magic-users whom dedicate their lives to magic. a. In paticular Thyatis to use magic in warfare. They have organized schools and universities to teach and encourage magic practice for use in the war efforts against Alphatia. b. Alfheim and other elven magic tend to specialize in non-warfare style magic. Much of their magic is oriented towards the forest. 3. The humans of Karameikos to not have a strong magical base. Most of the citizens are Traladarans. Most Traladarans are illiterate. The few Thyatians there are not readily interested in magic, and the magic users that are there, exception being the ambassador of Glantri, are not powerful magic users. 4. Considering that it takes a whole society rich in magic craft and arcane research to create skyships, it is extremely doubtful that Karameikos could be able to create such skyships, given the short amount of time and lack of magical prowess. a. Furthermore, Alphatians would not want to teach this to anyone as this power could and would eventually be used against them. b. Followers of Air also do not like to share their secrets to non-followers of Air. 5. Elves loving the forest and concerning themselves with their own lives and livelyhood would never involve themselves in human warfares, esepcially at the expense of their precious lives. They would amost certainly never be in expeditionary forces. IMHO, to use elves in this manner is an extreme abuse and manipulation of elves. This idea to use elves in human wars more commonly reflects Forgotten Realms or Kyrnn elves. 6. Elves loving their forest would most certainly never serve as marines for ships. They for one, perfer the forest, and two do not have experience. The Admirals under Duke Stefan would not use them in any extent (assuming elves wanted to sacrifice themselves for humans) as they would be a danger due to their inexperience in serving in a military compacity. 7. It is not snotty to not want to sacrifice your life or the lives of others brethen for humans that for 1) do not share the same values, 2) constantly change their borders and war amongst each other, 3) breed at a rapid rate, 4) are always killing each other for resources, and 5) do not wish to take life for anyone's ideals (human or otherwise). Like I said. It is ubsurd. It is ubsurd that people cannot see that it is ubsurd. - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:25:33 jdaly wrote: >I totally disagree. You haven't really stated what is absurd about it. The >elves of Mystara have always been a little more sociable than their snotty >otherworld relatives. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mr. Darknerd >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:37 AM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard > > >> >> This is totally ubsurd. >> >> >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current >> >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all >> >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the >> >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not >> >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised >> >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. >> >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. >> > >> >> >> >> HotBot - Search smarter. >> http://www.hotbot.com >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:18:25 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard 1. Elves live for thousands of years and there are oodles of reasons that they would not get involved in human affairs. The GAZ5 has several descriptions of Mystaran Elven attitude. Also, humans constantly shift their borders, etc. Thyatis would be considered a young nation. 2. Elves cannot advanced the same level of the human magic users in both D&D and AD&D. The idea is that elves have minor magical ability, but not to the degree as human magic-users whom dedicate their lives to magic. a. In paticular Thyatis to use magic in warfare. They have organized schools and universities to teach and encourage magic practice for use in the war efforts against Alphatia. b. Alfheim and other elven magic tend to specialize in non-warfare style magic. Much of their magic is oriented towards the forest. 3. The humans of Karameikos to not have a strong magical base. Most of the citizens are Traladarans. Most Traladarans are illiterate. The few Thyatians there are not readily interested in magic, and the magic users that are there, exception being the ambassador of Glantri, are not powerful magic users. 4. Considering that it takes a whole society rich in magic craft and arcane research to create skyships, it is extremely doubtful that Karameikos could be able to create such skyships, given the short amount of time and lack of magical prowess. a. Furthermore, Alphatians would not want to teach this to anyone as this power could and would eventually be used against them. b. Followers of Air also do not like to share their secrets to non-followers of Air. 5. Elves loving the forest and concerning themselves with their own lives and livelyhood would never involve themselves in human warfares, esepcially at the expense of their precious lives. They would amost certainly never be in expeditionary forces. IMHO, to use elves in this manner is an extreme abuse and manipulation of elves. This idea to use elves in human wars more commonly reflects Forgotten Realms or Kyrnn elves. 6. Elves loving their forest would most certainly never serve as marines for ships. They for one, perfer the forest, and two do not have experience. The Admirals under Duke Stefan would not use them in any extent (assuming elves wanted to sacrifice themselves for humans) as they would be a danger due to their inexperience in serving in a military compacity. 7. It is not snotty to not want to sacrifice your life or the lives of others brethen for humans that for 1) do not share the same values, 2) constantly change their borders and war amongst each other, 3) breed at a rapid rate, 4) are always killing each other for resources, and 5) do not wish to take life for anyone's ideals (human or otherwise). Like I said. It is ubsurd. It is ubsurd that people cannot see that it is ubsurd. - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:25:33 jdaly wrote: >I totally disagree. You haven't really stated what is absurd about it. The >elves of Mystara have always been a little more sociable than their snotty >otherworld relatives. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mr. Darknerd >To: >Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 3:37 AM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard > > >> >> This is totally ubsurd. >> >> >2. Utter magical superiority. Around one third of the current >> >Karameikan population are spell casters. Yes, they are almost all >> >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the >> >death. Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim. Plus this is not >> >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants. I would not be surprised >> >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. >> >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. >> > >> >> >> >> HotBot - Search smarter. >> http://www.hotbot.com >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:18:36 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard "Mr. Darknerd" wrote: > > Do you have a passage you are referencing that Elves will go to war for humans??? > Yes, based on the official material, I would venture to say that if the Emperor asked, the elves would provide at the very least some elite troops and adventurers. Not many, but not nothing as people are suggesting. Remember that the Count of Vyalia is part of the Thyatian nobility system, and as such he owes loyalty and assistance to the Emperor. - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:05:24 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard Cobaye wrote: > > i would like to remind you that population of the county is about 70% of humans. > 70% of 20000 (wich is the approximately the population between) this makes elves about 6000. But beyond numbers, both humans > and elves are working to preserv wilderness, and i can't think they would be of a great help in a war beetween thyatis and > karameikos. Certainly because foresters like nature, not war, even if the Treeshields are of a war being, i don't think they > could give thyatis more than a single elite unit. > True, but they would help *Thyatis* and not Karameikos as someone suggested. - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:04:28 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) John Hofmann wrote: > > As I look through the various books, I come up with Ixion as the best > possibility. He's 36th level (WotI book 1, p.23), so he could have very Good thoughts, all. However, there is a problem. Gareth is gaining power in Sind, which means that if he is Ixion he is basically competing against himself (and quite fiercely, too... his old established clerics are persecuting the followers of Gareth). This doesn't quite tie in with the notion that Gareth wants to guard mortals from Immortal excesses, since if he "gained" power in Sind by pitting his followers against each other the exact opposite effect would be achieved. - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:37:39 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Mr. Darknerd wrote: >5. Elves loving the forest and concerning themselves > with their own lives and livelyhood would never > involve themselves in human warfares, esepcially > at the expense of their precious lives. They > would amost certainly never be in expeditionary > forces. IMHO, to use elves in this manner is an > extreme abuse and manipulation of elves. This > idea to use elves in human wars more commonly > reflects Forgotten Realms or Kyrnn elves. *Most* elves may love forests, but that doesn't stop a handful of ambitious elves from selling their services to the highest bidder. A troop of 30 mercenary elves, for example, could practically name its price on most battlefields. As with any race, there is no one set attitude to which everyone subscribes. >6. Elves loving their forest would most certainly never serve as marines for ships. They for one, perfer the forest, and two do not have experience. Well, sea-elves do exist, in GAZ 9 (The Minrothad Guilds). They are not aquatic elves, but a clan of elves who are adept sailors and navigators, and excellent merchants to boot. They could easily turn their skills to privateering, should they so desire. The Meditor elves are proof that not all elves are tree-dwellers. If they can become adept sailors, any elf could. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:32:59 -0500 From: "Jeff & Lauri Fox" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alphatian Arts The emptiness >benieth the strand is endless and someone who fell from one would never >hit the bottom. Bonded Walkers have no problem at all of staying on >the strand, and in fact treat it as having the center of gravity in the >pocket universe, which means that they can walk just as easily along >the bottom of the strand as along the top. OK, explain to me( as if to a child) how you can fall away from the plane's center of gravity? Lurker, Jeff & Laurie Fox Great Plains RPGA Regional Directors BransCon IV Coordinators GAM President & Vice-president All-around fun folks fror@gte.net (417)561-2030 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:13:07 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:04:28 +0300 Solmyr of the Azure Star writes: > John Hofmann wrote: > > > > As I look through the various books, I come up with Ixion as the > best > > possibility. He's 36th level (WotI book 1, p.23), so he could > have very > > Good thoughts, all. However, there is a problem. Gareth is gaining > power > in Sind, which means that if he is Ixion he is basically competing > against himself (and quite fiercely, too... his old established > clerics > are persecuting the followers of Gareth). This doesn't quite tie in > with > the notion that Gareth wants to guard mortals from Immortal > excesses, > since if he "gained" power in Sind by pitting his followers against > each > other the exact opposite effect would be achieved. Good point. Although Ixion is one of the oldest immortals, and that's one thing that we're forgetting. The Gareth thing was around for two years of Mystara time (in the Poor Wizard's Almanacs) and Ixion has been around for thousands. I'm sure he's thinking long-term here. There's going to be resistance at first, but Gareth should eventually catch on. I think that Ixion is thinking that the Gareth plot will be in full-swing around 1100 AC or so (just a guess as to the timeframe). He's just trying to get off to a good start now, sort-of laying the groundwork for later. I'm sure he'll slowly start to "phase out" his old churches in favor of Gareth. Perhaps the fighting could even start to work to his advantage. His old clerics persecute Gareth clerics. Eventually, he stops granting spells to his old clerics. Everybody in the world has to notice this "testimony to the power of Gareth." Gareth's popularity explodes. That was a good point that you had, and it definitely helps me sharpen my ideas. Thank you. John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:58:10 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - New D&D computer game In a message dated 9/21/99 9:24:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, epaynter@iupui.edu writes: << It looks like it will be really cool and allow DMs to create their own adventures and worlds. Its set up to use 3rd Edition D&D rules, but otherwise it looks like a great idea/system. Check it out. >> Big changes planned - 2nd edition rules are going to power the game. Interplay announced that they can't use a set of rules that won't be published for another 11 months yet by the parent company that holds their contract (ie WotC/TSR). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:19:11 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) >Good point. Although Ixion is one of the oldest immortals, and that's >one thing that we're forgetting. The Gareth thing was around for two >years of Mystara time (in the Poor Wizard's Almanacs) and Ixion has been >around for thousands. I'm sure he's thinking long-term here. There's >going to be resistance at first, but Gareth should eventually catch on. >I think that Ixion is thinking that the Gareth plot will be in full-swing >around 1100 AC or so (just a guess as to the timeframe). He's just >trying to get off to a good start now, sort-of laying the groundwork for >later. I'm sure he'll slowly start to "phase out" his old churches in >favor of Gareth. I can understand the argument, but if Ixion were to look down on Mystara he'd see plenty of areas where he could establish a new religion that could, evetually, be embraced by his old followers without causing huge tensions between them. You have to figure that Ixion must still hold grudges against at least a few of the WotI immortals--most notably Hel, Loki, and Vanya--so it makes the most sense for him to try to sabotage their followings rather than his own. After all, there's no reason he couldn't have appeared in dreams in Heldann, Thyatis, or the Northern reaches. BTW--has anyone figured out how much power would havve gone into that staff? I'm curious because new immortals don't ahve endless amounts of PP to spend, and most older immortals would be reluctant to spend so many points that they'd drop a level. That could potentially give us a clue to the mystery immortal's identity. >Perhaps the fighting could even start to work to his advantage. His old >clerics persecute Gareth clerics. Eventually, he stops granting spells >to his old clerics. Everybody in the world has to notice this "testimony >to the power of Gareth." Gareth's popularity explodes. I like this idea, but I still think Ixion would rather sabotage someone else's following than his own. Also, Ixion is lawful, and it just doesn't seem as if lying to potential followers is quite his style. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:21:48 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard >>6. Elves loving their forest would most certainly never serve as >marines for ships. They for one, perfer the forest, and two do not have >experience. > >Well, sea-elves do exist, in GAZ 9 (The Minrothad Guilds). They are not >aquatic elves, but a clan of elves who are adept sailors and navigators, >and excellent merchants to boot. They could easily turn their skills to >privateering, should they so desire. The Meditor elves are proof that not >all elves are tree-dwellers. If they can become adept sailors, any elf >could. Remember the example of Lathan in XSolo. He is a sailing elf from, IIRC, Karameikos. He might be from Alfheim, but it makes little difference--he's not from Minrothad. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:15:33 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Thyatis's backyard it's right that there's good reasons vyalians send troops, but, as i said before, they can't send a lot of themselves (elves), but the county can provide to thyatian army excellent foresters as explorers (humans). THIS is, i think a point we do not have to neglect. Solmyr of the Azure Star a écrit: > "Mr. Darknerd" wrote: > > > > Do you have a passage you are referencing that Elves will go to war for humans??? > > > Yes, based on the official material, I would venture to say that if the > Emperor asked, the elves would provide at the very least some elite > troops and adventurers. Not many, but not nothing as people are > suggesting. Remember that the Count of Vyalia is part of the Thyatian > nobility system, and as such he owes loyalty and assistance to the > Emperor. > > -- > ****************** > Aleksei Andrievski > aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star > solmyr@kolumbus.fi > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #406 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #407 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 407 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! [MYSTARA] - Travelers of Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View on Loki/ Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:31:29 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard <<1. Elves live for thousands of years and there are oodles of reasons that they would not get involved in human affairs. The GAZ5 has several descriptions of Mystaran Elven attitude. Also, humans constantly shift their borders, etc. Thyatis would be considered a young nation.>> I may very well be wrong, but I thought the average lifespan for a Mystaran elf was 500 to 1,000 years. I don't have GAZ5, so I can't really comment on it, but, as someone mentioned, the "Elven attitude" is, at best, a generalized stereotype. > idea to use elves in human wars more commonly > reflects Forgotten Realms or Kyrnn elves. There are several examples from published material supporting the idea of elves fighting for humans. The abundance of elven adventurerers, for one, indicates that at least a strong minority are willing to join adventuring parties and risk their lives for the betterment of all. X10 clearly indicates that the elves of Alfheim will join Darokin in fighting the Master if the PCs prove willing to help them. Carnelia and Carlotina will both send a division in the same adventure if the PCs convince/bribe them sufficiently. The elves of Graakhalia will give their lives for . The Aquarendi are allied with the Tritons and Merrow of Undersea and the Sunlit Sea, and we have every indication there that the elves will risk their own lives to fight for their friends. Frankly, its absurd to take the stereotypical attitudes of one group of elves and project them onto all of Mystan elvenkind. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:24:32 -0500 From: "The Rusty" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! > I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or Gaia. And I like the idea that lycanthropy was something brought to Mystara from the home dimension of the Alphatians. To me it makes perfect sense, but to each their own, I guess. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:56:13 +0200 From: "J.W.K. \"X\" Kramer" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Well, you put it a bit harsh, but you are right. The books provided by TSR (or WotC or Hasbro) are just a guideline. They are not meant as straight jackets and are not *the Law*. Of course this is all IMO. When I buy a module or a rulebook I read it and use it to get inspiration. Not to follow each and every rule that's provided in it. If I did that my players would run away from my games faster than the orcs run from my 3rd level Dwarven Battlerager... and they would scream at the top of their lungs. Instead of playing we would sit at a table and debate and compare rules. And even though sometimes I don't mind that (for about a minute or two), I really like to play! >>>>>> Many of us here in fact, are set in our ways and cannot begin to comprehend themindless drivel we put others through in our attempt to preserve that which is nearly dead already. >>>>>> I've noticed that. Mostly it results in flames, sad but true (although a bit of a flamewar can be fun to read, as long as I'm not the one being flamed! :) >>>>>>> What I am specifically addressing, are the OD&D bigots out there that feel the need to stick 100% to the rules spoon fed to them by a few people in the marketing department of a company that has been bought twice over now. >>>>>>> Hmmm, well, you've got a point there. But I'm glad that the majority of the members on this list are quite tolerant and even react positive on ideas of others. So lighten up and delete the post from those poor buggers who degenerate ideas from other peoples, just because they couldn't think of it!! (oops... let the flamewar begin!! But please flame me in private: kramerus@xanthus.demon.nl. Thank you very much :) >>>>>>> There are those of you who read these books as if they were the Bible or something, a divine writing sent to you by the Immortals in search of perfection, when even the stupidest moron can see the obvious flaws, contradictions, and shortcomings in them. >>>>>>> *grabs hold of monitor and yells in utter surprise: "What? Are those books not send to us by Immortals? How can that be?" * :-) >>>>>>> When a new idea is offered that can increase gaming pleasure, or at least put some new ideas on the table, don't step on the creative genes we were all given. Either accept it, and possibly incorporate it into the campaign, or say, "it's not for me" and work on your own way to spice things up. >>>>>>> Right on! That's what this list is for, AFAIK. Kristian "X" Kramer AD&D Fellowship Holland   "Cold be hand and heart and bone... till the Sun fails and the moon is dead." LotR, J.R.R. Tolkien Rest of original message: Face it, this console was designed several years ago, and instead of trying to bash the attempts made at fixing it, we should rejoice in the additions, the alterations, and welcome the new. The world of Mystara, while it in itself falls into the category of nearly dead (in the marketing eye that is) is far from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if there are those that want to adapt a new class to it, or change an existing one, don't smite them for it! I've said my piece, now lets hear yours. I'll be waiting . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:28:32 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! > I was just reading in PC4 that Lycanthopy was introduced by Alphatia. I really do not like the idea, because it does not seem to make sense. > > Why did Alphatians have lycanthropy? How did Alphatians get lycanthropy? I'm pretty sure that lycanthropy is pretty well explained in PC4. The Alphatians wanted to create a way to all become shapeshifters - Some Alphatians were shapeshifters naturally. Except that their viruses went awry, and spread the disease throughout Mystara. Lycanthropy is in the Hollow World too!! There have been a few races that have gone to the HW since Alphatia was around, so they may have had infected people too! Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Ramius Ironsword Subject: [MYSTARA] - Travelers of Mystara Greetings fellow Mystarans! I just wanted to thank all of you who have signed up to the club in the past couple of weeks. The support has been wonderful and I truly appreciate it. I would also like to extend the offer of membership to everyone on the MML who may be interested in joining... For those who have not heard, it is a Yahoo!Club dedicated completely to Mystara. All you need to join is an account with Yahoo!, which I believe most of us have. =) My intention is for it to be a living forum for live chats (using the chat room and the Yahoo!Pager) and a center hub for Mystaran resources (Links page and Calendar). It is in no way intended as a replacement for this list (that would be impossible), but more of an extension of it. I hope you all may find it useful in your journeys in, on, or near Mystara. =) We are holding a scheduled chat on Wednesday 9/22 at 8:30pm EST, and everyone who can make it is invited. The chat room is open 24/7 so feel free to enter at any time or even schedule your own Mystara-related chats. If you have any questions/comments feel free to reply to this address. Oh and for those who are still curious as to my true identity...well nevermind that now. =) Well I must be off. I have an urgent errand to run in Sind before tommorrow and I would hate to be late for my own meeting. =) Good journeys to you all! === Ramius Ironsword (austaran@yahoo.com) http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/travelersofmystara __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:57:23 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) > I can understand the argument, but if Ixion were to look down on > Mystara > he'd see plenty of areas where he could establish a new religion > that could, > evetually, be embraced by his old followers without causing huge > tensions > between them. You have to figure that Ixion must still hold grudges > against > at least a few of the WotI immortals--most notably Hel, Loki, and > Vanya--so > it makes the most sense for him to try to sabotage their followings > rather > than his own. After all, there's no reason he couldn't have > appeared in > dreams in Heldann, Thyatis, or the Northern reaches. That's all very true. Another point to consider is that Ixion's intelligence and wisdom scores are 78 and 56, respectively. He's sharp enough to realize that he probably COULD outfox any of the other immortals that he doesn't like, but that it would be easier for him to compete with himself. Ever play a boardgame by yourself? You're bound to win, and it's easy to fix the outcome. Going head-to-head with another immortal introduces a random element, and if Ixion is trying to reform the view that mortals have of immortals and vice versa, then he's probably going to want the least number of random elements as possible. Also, by competing with himself, he can minimize the damage and "pull punches" when necessary to try to smooth over the transition, and he's not interfering with mortals as much as if he fought Hel, Loki, or Vanya for their followers. They'd just whip their followers up into a frenzy, and Ixion would have his hands full with them. Look at it from his point of view, he doesn't lose any followers in the end, (except for some crazy radicals, but they wouldn't fit well into the new scheme anyway) he just converts followers to his new way of thinking. Plus, he's not lying to anyone, just trying to show them what he feels is the right way. If he feels that a policy of noninterference is the only way for immortals to advance to the next level (and this is what the Old One was saying in WotI), then I think that it's in his best interests to start converting mortals to a more Gareth-like way of thinking, and it's easiest to start with his own followers. Then, once the rest of the world has seen the validity of Gareth (he will have converted a large portion of the Sind population if Ixion/Gareth is successful), they might start taking a look at him more seriously. > BTW--has anyone figured out how much power would havve gone into > that staff? > I'm curious because new immortals don't ahve endless amounts of PP > to spend, > and most older immortals would be reluctant to spend so many points > that > they'd drop a level. That could potentially give us a clue to the > mystery > immortal's identity. > This is my figuring, and I was trying to be as conservative as possible so that I could eliminate the LEAST number of immortals as possible. Staff of Gareth from Poor Wizard's Almanac III p.233 - -- assuming that it is a staff of healing (so that it can cast the healing spells without using PP), it still needs to be a staff +3, and cast detect evil (15 PP) and hold monster (DnD equivalent of paralyze, I am assuming) (35 PP) and one of the following: regenerate, reincarnate, restoration, raise dead fully. Of these, regenerate requires the most PP (95 PP). This is 145 PP so far, plus making it a weapon that does d6 damage (3 PP) with a +3 attack bonus vs. all creatures (30 PP). This is the most conservative estimate that I came up with. If you assume that the curative powers are immortal level (which is never implied anywhere that I've seen, although it is likely), then you're dealing with a very powerful artifact. My guess would be in the 400-500 PP range, since "heal" alone would be another 100 PP, plus all the others (which would make the minimum level Immortal required to create it around 20 if it's less than 500 PP, and 27 if more than 500 PP) This is a big reason as to why I think it's NOT Benekander, which would otherwise be a pretty reasonable explanation (also, Benekander doesn't have a record of flat-out lying to mortals, but he would be if he were Gareth -- Gareth said he's back from the Void). > >Perhaps the fighting could even start to work to his advantage. > His old > >clerics persecute Gareth clerics. Eventually, he stops granting > spells > >to his old clerics. Everybody in the world has to notice this > "testimony > >to the power of Gareth." Gareth's popularity explodes. > I like this idea, but I still think Ixion would rather sabotage > someone > else's following than his own. Also, Ixion is lawful, and it just > doesn't > seem as if lying to potential followers is quite his style. > > Patrick > You are coming up with a lot of good points. I hope that you come up with more! The more holes that get poked in my idea, the more I have to re-evaluate it, and perhaps I'm dead-wrong, who knows? John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:33:21 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth (a bit long and involved and speculative) John Hofmann wrote: > > Good point. Although Ixion is one of the oldest immortals, and that's > one thing that we're forgetting. The Gareth thing was around for two > years of Mystara time (in the Poor Wizard's Almanacs) and Ixion has been > around for thousands. I'm sure he's thinking long-term here. There's > going to be resistance at first, but Gareth should eventually catch on. > I think that Ixion is thinking that the Gareth plot will be in full-swing > around 1100 AC or so (just a guess as to the timeframe). He's just > trying to get off to a good start now, sort-of laying the groundwork for > later. I'm sure he'll slowly start to "phase out" his old churches in > favor of Gareth. > > Perhaps the fighting could even start to work to his advantage. His old > clerics persecute Gareth clerics. Eventually, he stops granting spells > to his old clerics. Everybody in the world has to notice this "testimony > to the power of Gareth." Gareth's popularity explodes. > Interesting idea. I have a little further expansion for it if you want (and it's evil, as is my style :) When Ixion "phases out" his old churches and clerics, many of the will undoubtedly feel bitter (they just got dumped by their old Immortal and saw the rise of a new, unfriendly one). Sindhi clerics (Rishiya) strike me as being extremely conservative and traditionalist, so I think they wouldn't simply convert to the new faith, even if their Immortal told them so. The Rishiyas also hold vast amounts of wealth and power in Sind... Here, Bozdogan once again steps in. Since Ixion is now devoting himself full-time to being Gareth, Bozdogan disguises himself as Ayazi/Himayeti/Aksyri (Ixion's old Sindhi manifestations), and tells the Rishiyas that any requests they received from Ixion to convert to the new religion are in fact fake and "work of fiends", and the Rishiyas believe him (after all, they have no reason not to - those words sound more like their old patron). Before anyone knows it, the elite of Sind is following a disguised Bozdogan, being none the wiser. Although most common people are likely to follow Gareth at this point (and there will probably be quite many who wish to keep to the old religion), that doesn't mean he'll easily assume control. Now we have a stage set for a nice bloody civil war and general chaos, food and drink for Bozdogan and the Master of Hule :) - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:06:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Forgive me if this is a repeat... Yahoo booted me out just before I sent my original response. - --- Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > I've noticed throughout my travels in the worlds and > realms that many of us > exist in, that there are a certian, let's say, > archeotype that seem to prefer > this sort of game. Many of us here in fact, are set > in our ways and cannot > begin to comprehend themindless drivel we put others > through in our attempt > to preserve that which is nearly dead already. What > I am specifically > addressing, are the OD&D bigots out there that feel > Well, even though this list is primarily for Mystara related topics, keep in mind that general disussion of OD&D rules is permissible (see the FAQ on Leroy's site - - --). Granted, there’s no excuse for maligning AD&D rules. > the need to stick 100% to > the rules spoon fed to them by a few people in the > marketing department of a > company that has been bought twice over now. There > are those of you who > read these books as if they were the Bible or > something, a divine writing > sent to you by the Immortals in search of > perfection, > I can see your point about blindly following any rules. But you must remember that the canon material is what gave birth to the world we now know as Mystara. Are there flaws in the canon? No doubt. Everybody's campaign (no matter how homegrown) will have some flaws and contradictions. My attitude, however, is to stick with canon unless there's an obvious reason not to. Of course, campaigns vary... > when even the stupidest > moron can see the obvious flaws, contradictions, and > shortcomings in them. > Now that sounds a bit harsh. In fact, to me that echoes a common sentiment in the AD&D camp that I find a bit condescending: AD&D is better than OD&D because it's 'advanced'. Well, that to me is the opinion "spoon fed to them by a few people in the marketing department of a company that has been bought twice over now" ;~> I bought into that myself when I was about 12 or 13 and shelved my Basic & Expert stuff in favor of the AD&D hardbacks. Afterall, it's the next logical step, right? Well, yeah, I had fun over the next several years, but not as much fun as I did in the early days. Finally, I got back into the older rules and was a lot more inspired. I still particpate in AD&D campaigns from time to time as a player but I still prefer the OD&D rules. Now I don't bring up my personal role-playing history to bore everyone(tho' I'm sure I probably did ;~p), but to demonstrate that everyone's experience is going to be different. What's wrong with the OD&D rules? They work for many people's campaigns... just like AD&D works for others. My point is simply that each lends itself to a different style of gaming and has advantages and disadvantages. Pick the one that works for you and respect the other(not to mention all the other rule-systems Mystara has been adapted to). > When a new idea is offered that can increase gaming > pleasure, or at least put > some new ideas on the table, don't step on the > creative genes we were all > given. Either accept it, and possibly incorporate > it into the campaign, or > say, "it's not for me" and work on your own way to > spice things up. > I agree totally. > Face it, this console was designed several years > ago, and instead of trying to bash > the attempts made at fixing it, we should rejoice in > the additions, the > alterations, and welcome the new. > Keep in mind, however, that not everyone believes that it needs fixing or feels that everything new is necessarily 'improved'. > The world of > Mystara, while it in itself > falls into the category of nearly dead (in the > marketing eye that is) is far > from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if > there are those that > want to adapt a new class to it, or change an > existing one, don't smite them > for it! > Absolutely! We all have to remember that there are alot of opinions out there and we all need to show respect for them, regardless of whether we agree or not. Anyway, I hope I said my peace without offending anyone. If I did, I apologize. It wasn’t my intention. If anyone would like to discuss this topic further, please e-mail me privately – habgyp@yahoo.com. By the time this gets posted, I’m sure there will have been quite a bit of ground covered (pro and con), so I don’t think we need to waste any more time/space on the MML with it. auf wiedersehen, Damon === If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:03:42 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! >>I was just reading in PC4 that Lycanthopy was introduced by Alphatia. I really do not like the idea, because it does not seem to make sense.>> >Why did Alphatians have lycanthropy? How did Alphatians get lycanthropy? I'm not sure I follow your logic here. Why would it be illogical for Alphatians to have lycanthropy? A race of humans from an alien world would likely have more exotic and unique diseases than RW explorers coming in contact with new continents seperated for millenia. Smallpox and Syphillis both crossed oceans with European explorers, so why shouldn't Alphatia have had lycanthropy first? >I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or Gaia. She wanted to create warriors of the forest. However, some warriors >were corrupted by [insert favorite Entrophic Immortal here]. This is a cool idea, although I'm not sure Terra or Gaia are the best choices for immortals. >This idea makes more sense, and is more fun and exciting. Also, people can use lycanthropy in other >timelines and campaigns such as: Hollow World, Nithia, Olmecs, Blackmoor. I'm not sure that it makes more sense, but if you like it more, go for it. Lycanthropy has spread all over the world since Alphatian Landfall, and PC4 includes the Werejaguar that is commonly found in the Hollow World IIRC. A relatively recent introduction of lycanthropy works well with the massive lycanthropy epidemics of the Sea of Dread region in relatively recent memory. On the other hand, if you want pre-landfall lycanthropes, go for it. It does kind of reduce the effect of Alphatians within the hollow world post-wrath, though--no smallpox-style epidemics of lycanthropy raging across the known world. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:49:05 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? > The world of Mystara, while it in itself > falls into the category of nearly dead (in the marketing eye that is) is far > from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if there are those that > want to adapt a new class to it, or change an existing one, don't smite them > for it! I've said my piece, now lets hear yours. I'll be waiting . . . While I don't disagree that there are some people out there who are canon-philes and bash _every_ new idea, there are some of us "OD&D Bigots" who prefer to keep Mystara from becoming a hodgepodge of half-hearted ideas. On the MMB, Bruce Heard himself came up with an idea to add the Thri-Keen (A Dark Sun Race) to Mystara. There were some people up in arms about it. Their point was that we can't just toss a race into Mystara without having a well thought out background. To this point, I heartily agree. In my very few works that I have submitted to the list's/board's inspection (The Snartan Gaz, Thimhallan, Southern Vulcanian Timeline, etc..) I have made it a point to spend a whole hell of a lot of time making my "product" compatible with: A) The Mystaran History as portrayed in the HW set, and various other OD&D sources B) The Rest of the Davanian Group's ideas. C) The already-fan-published material out there, so I don't step on anyone's toes. In other words, I support a coherent Mystara. You can pick and choose what you like, but it will all fit together nicely, or at least somewhat nicely, reducing the amount of hassle with incompatible ideas. Hell, I even bought "CM4: Earthshaker!" to help with background info on the Snartan stuff (Unfortunately it wasn't much help, 'scept for a nice background legend). I guess what I'm trying to say is that coming up with different ideas is fine and welcome. Just _PLEASE_ take time to not just throw things into Mystara without a good explaination why!! Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:48:55 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? there you go, see, someone has taken to heart what i was saying. that's good. see, my whole intent was to get some attention, to get people's heads to pop up and start thinking for themselves. glad to see it worked for someone. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:15:54 -0500 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] An Alternate View on Loki/ On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:32 -0700 "Mr. Darknerd" writes: >Don't forget the even simplier solution. Bozdogan is NOT Loki, and >Loki is NOT Bozdogan. Yes, but that wouldn't have made for an interesting post, would it? :) However, I was just trying to come up for a way to explain the contradictions for those who DON'T want to completely ignore the canon view. Not that ignoring ots wrong or anything. ") Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? - --- Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > there you go, see, someone has taken to heart what i > was saying. that's > good. see, my whole intent was to get some > attention, to get people's heads > to pop up and start thinking for themselves. glad > to see it worked for > someone. > Umm.. who were you referring to? === If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:17:54 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? I got a lot of personal emails not submitted onto the list, that's who i was referring to. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:24:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? - --- Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > I got a lot of personal emails not submitted onto > the list, that's who i was > referring to. > Just checkin'... :~) auf wiedersehen, Damon === If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:48:28 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth At Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:06:23 -0400, John Hofmann wrote: >I haven't been on the list long, so please excuse me if this is a dead >horse, but I was reading through the Poor Wizard's Almanacs, and I was >wondering what was up with Gareth. Does anyone have any idea where they >might have been going with this? What thoughts did you guys have about >it? My take on it is that Gareth is well.. simply Gareth. IMC I had a wonderful opportunity of introducing him to the players when they run the adventure about the One God I designed (where they had to help Sartori release the One God in exchange for the secret of the Craft). At one point, they manage to get past the labyrinth below the Hinge, where the key to free the One is located (actually, it's only the knowledge they must go to the Shadowmaster in the Nightmare Dimension to get the True Key they find). In the ensuing battle with the last guardians, they release three First Generation Immortals that Sartori had sealed in that room to guard the key (knowing that only another Sartori could defeat them, so the key was safe!). One is annihilated totally, another one is absorbed and the third is subdued by the PC Sartori (long story). Well, at the end the PC Sartori gets disintegrated, and from his body the lifeforce of the First Generation Immortal he had assimilated exits and introduces himself to the PCS: Gareth, none the less (and he's indeed returned from the Vortex, since his prison was inside the Barrier). Next what he does is roaming around the Multiverse to see how it's changed, and after he sees the power the Immortals wield now, he begins thinking: "Hey, I'm a lot more powerful. Let's change this and supplant all of them. Let's hit them where it hurts, in Mystara.." And so he introduces himself as a Messiah who will free people from the Immortals' yoke.. while in fact he only wants to guide their path as HE pleases.. Now, if his goals are truly wonderful or simply egotistic I do not know, but that's what happened IMC.. ;) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #407 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #408 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 408 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Thyatis and Karmeikos - my .02]] Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient [MYSTARA] - What's going on? Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:07:08 +0300 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: [MYSTARA] - [Fwd: Thyatis and Karmeikos - my .02]] Some gems of thought from our friend James Ruhland (who isn't currently on the list btw). James Ruhland (jruhlconob@sprynet.com) wrote: > > > Magic Earring Rob wrote: > > > > > > I figured I'd throw my .02 into this debate before it goes away. While > > > there is a lot of pro and anti bias for each country, I think we can > look > > > at this logically. > > > > > > Well, first off the top, I assume by "logically" you likely meant > "objectively," without the pro or anti bias you allude to. However, this > being a fantasy game world, there is only one logical & objective statement > that applies, and it begins and ends with one line: who would win (if > anyone) would depend on the direction the players & DM wanted their > campaign, and their campaign world, to go in. This is evident because, IMO, > there are successful defensive strategies Karamekios could employ, and > successful offensive strategies Thyatis could employ, and thus ultimate > success or failure of either side is in the DM's (& interfiering player's) > hands. > For example, for every logical argument you made, there is a > "solution"/counterargument - strategies that the Emperor could use to turn > apparent weaknesses into advantages. > Lets start with one you didn't mention, but which may form a partial > backdrop to why people think that Thyatis "obviously" would fail in any > effort to recover Traldara. Thyatians have a reputation for treachery, and > for winning more fights by "treachery" than by military force (c.f. > Challenge of the Warlords). Broadly speaking there are two ways to > interpret this: > 1) The average Mystarophile interprets this as meaning Thyatian's are > innefectual schemers who deserve bad treatment (thus, for example, Errul > Zaar could turn on Thyatis and not be considered a nasty traitor, because > the Thyatian's reputation excuses anything he does to them. Similarly > Stefan can sell out his old friend Thincol and that isn't considered > betrayal because "the Thyatians deserve it, because of their own > treachery.") Thyatians scheme wickedly like Snidely Whiplash - nasty, but > incompetently and uncreatively. > 2) A second way to look at "Thyatian treachery" however is interpreting it > as meaning that Thyatis is skilled at "Covert (black) Ops", taking > advantage of another nation's difficulties and weaknesses, employing 5th > collumns, and other "unfair" (in the midieval "Chivalry" sense) forms of > warfare. Instead of being uncreative, cartoonish figures, this means that > Thyatian scheming rivals that of a Dragon - foil one plot only to see they > have achieved their goals by other means, because anything you can think of > they have already considered and incorperated into their plans, predicting > your actions and insuring they work to Thyatis' benifit. . . > > Now, step by step lets go through your logical arguments: > > > > 1) The Callari seem to have a good realtionship with King Stefan. While > > > they might not fight to the death to defend him, I don't see why they > > > would side with Thyatis or ignore the invasion. > > > The Callari would be among Stefan's greatest supporters. Thus, making sure > they aren't able to send much support would be a priority. Infiltration > might work here, co-optation, or. . .well, the Callari live near a 'noid > infested wilderness; "encouraging" the local monsters to raid them, thus > tying down Callari forces, would distract them from the main event. > Plus, ultimately long lived Elves are indifferent to this or that short > lived human ruling them. Should Karameikos be deposed, well numerous > Callari remember the last time the Thyatians were in control of Traldara, > and they left the elves alone (per all the info we have on Kara history for > that period, Thyatis concentrated on controling Specularuam & left the rest > untouched). *Shrug* no big deal. New century, new humans anyhow. . . . > > > > 2) I'll be honest, I don't know much of anything about the Vyalia. > Their > > > relationship with Stefan seems distant and their loyalties might lie > with > > > their Thyatian kin. But I can't see elves being too eager to > participate > > > in a human war of mere conquest, especially if other elves line up with > > > Stefan. > > > The Vyalia definately have much stronger ties to Thyatis than to > Karameikos: they completly ignor Stefan's "authority," while on the other > hand the only humans who have been alowed to learn "Elven Magic" are > Thyatians. While they may not care about a war of "mere conquest," this is > arguably a war to recover a rebelious province (Traldara) stradling the > lands inhabited by Vyalia elves, an area who's King is claiming authority > over at least part of the clan's population and territory. . . . > > > > 3) The Alfheim and Alphatian refugees might not have any particular > > > loyalty to Stefan, and they might just ramble on to the next welcoming > > > country. Yet both groups are running out of places that would welcome > them > > > and I'm sure they are tired of being kicked around. I think their > > > gratitude towards Stefan and the Alphatian's hatred of Thyatis would > cause > > > them to side with Karameikos > > > Yes, he gave them nice, monster-infested areas to clear right after they > survived a harrowing exodus from their homeland. They are likely greatful > enough not to actively harm Stefan's cause, but not grateful enough to help > him save his nation ("did he help you save Alfhiem?"). He'll get some help > here, but even moreso than the Callari, the Alfheimers (given they were > settled in inhospitable areas of Karameikos) will not be able to divert > their whole forces to fending off Thyatians and leaving their people > exposed to the monsters Stefan saddled them with. > > > > 4) The native Traladarans have plenty of reasons to hate some of > Stefan's > > > Thyatain Barons, but Stefan's reforms have won over many of them. They > may > > > not be too eager to side with the Thyatian lords of Karameikos, but > they > > > would hardly welcome the conquest. Why would they want to replace > > > Thyatians with...more Thyatians?? ("Meet the new boss...same as the old > > > boss.") > > > A significant portion of the Traldaran's are happy with Stefan. However, > some will also be indifferent to his fate for the same reason you site > ("meet the new boss. . ."): "one Thyatian interloper fighting against other > Thyatians isn't my battle" - so some will not go out of their way to hurt > him, nor will they nessissarily lift a finger to help him. After all, under > the previous Thyatian administration, Traldarans outside Specularuam were > left largely to live as they always have - the only effect of the > occupation was a slight increase in trade and security (c.f. Kara. history > again). Traldaran traditionalists might see this as preferable to rule by > the guy who came in, changed things wholesale, brought with him a bunch of > aristocrats of dubious character which he set up to rule over them > (deposing previous, native Traldaran, aristocratic families), gave away a > bunch of "Traldaran" land to his Thyatian cronies, settlers, etc - the > first in a long wave of immigrants (Elves, Alphatians) who have benifited > "at our [Traldaran] expense." While the Traldarans who support Stefan get > much of the press, Traldarans who don't certainly exist for all these > reasons and more. If Eusebius wants to send Stefan packing, they couldn't > care less. > On the other hand, a small but not insigificant minority of Traldarans > actively oppose Stefan - even after the "Thyatian Invasion" their power was > undisturbed. When Stefan came, all that changed. I'm thinking here of the > Marlenev family (located dangerously close to Mirros/Specularuam) - > promises and gold could lead them to revolt (again) against his rule, > leading to "Thyatian intervention"/peacekeeping forces (vs. Stefan's > "ethnic cleansing of Traldarans"). They could also serve as spies and 5th > collumnists. At an inoportune time, a band of (Traldarans) who infiltrated > Karameikos' armies, but dislike his rule, could open one of the city's > gates (it's happened IRL. . .) > If Eusebius promises some of these people that he'll replace Stefan with a > Traldaran, and restore the priviliges of the Traldaran aristocrats in I.E. > Marlenev, he can count on their help. Heck, some "spies" precieding the > invasion may not even know they are working for the Emperor - they may > believe they are working with some sort of "Traldaran Liberation Front." > And it doesn't take many people (a small but active fraction of the > population will do) to disrupt Karameikos' defence efforts. . . > > > > 5) There are many Thyatian nobles in Karameikos that have no particular > > > love for Stefan, but that does not automatically meant they would > become > > > traitors to their oaths of fealty and side with an invader. > > > > > > Not "automatically," but again, be real - treasonous nobles who rebel > against (or, almost as bad, are unsupportive of) their liege are de rigur > in history (I.E. Burgundy's support of England vs. the King of France on > too many times than I care to mention). This one's easy, and Kelvin is "in > the bag" without a shot being fired. Give him Duchal status and the > Northeast of Traldara. A key city, along a key road (one allied armies need > to control if they are to help Stefan), falls into the Emperor's lap > ('noids in the western swamps can cut supply lines, temporarily but > helpfully, along the Shires - Specularuam road, and that virtually isolates > Stefan even if the WDL wants to save his bacon). > > > > 6) Thyatians in general in Karameikos may come from the empire but do > not > > > necessarily have any loyalty to it; they are now citizens of > Karameikos. > > > Most of them would likely side with Karameikos, just like the vast > > > majority of German and Japanese Americans were loyal to the US in World > > > War II. > > > > > > On the other hand, this is also an excellent way to infiltrate spies into > Karameikan society. . . . > > > > 7) The WDL may be pretty impotent (the Mystara equivalent of the UN) > but > > > now that Alphatia is gone, there is no large power to keep the > ambitions > > > of Thyatis in check. The known world nations would become quite nervous > if > > > Thyatis turned its ambitions west instead of east. They may side with > > > Karameikos fearing that they would be next if Stefan falls. > > > > > > I'm of the opinion the WDL would *want* to intervene (and that they are > more like NATO than the UN). However, if Eusebius merely times things so > that Darokin et al are distracted by the Master/events in Hule/Sind, then > their hands are tied. Since it works to both parties benifit, getting the > Master to time *his* next action with the Thyatian one shouldn't be hard. > And if things work out just so, Eusibius can later "rescue" Darokin from > Hule's invasion, earning brownie points (just like Stalin kept half of > Poland and all the Baltic states by "helping" crush Hitler. . .) > > > > 8) Whatever divisions exist in Karameios or the known world, when > > > confronted with a common foe, differences tend to be forgotten, at > least > > > temporarily. > > > > > > Unless things get really bitter. For one thing, I can easily see Eusebius > waiting until the religious/Oderby strife erupts in Karameikos, then > encouraging little (but damaging) brushfire TLF (Traldaran Liberation > Front) revolts/strikes, Thyatian immigrants demanding increased protection, > things spiralling into a "cycle of violence," then "interveening to restore > peace after Stefan's failed experiment with independence" rather than an > overt, blunt invasion of conquest. This uses the frictions within > Karameikan society against them, rather than giving them Stefan as a focal > point to unite beind against the Thyatians, the Thyatians may become a > focal point to unite behind in restoring "the good old days, when this kind > of thing didn't happen." > > > > 9) Thyatis is still consolodating its hold on the captured Alphatian > > > territores and no doubt is interested in exploiting the hollow world. > Its > > > resources are still drained from the war and its post war conquests. > > > Another war might strain the military or the economy of Thyatis to the > > > breaking point. > > > > > > Well, obviously I wouldn't do it while Thyatis is weak and "in ruins." > Timing is everything, of course. Patience is important, as is siezing > oportunities when they arise. Paving the way (infiltration, organizing 5th > collumnists, etc) is the hard part. Once the troops roll accross the > border, that should be the *last* stage of the recovery of Traldara, not > the first step. . . > > > > 10) Could the military of Thyatis destroy the forces of Karameikos? Of > > > course, eventually. Could they hold the country? Most likely not, > > > especially in their current state. Remember that Thyatis was driven out > of > > > Ylauam by the natives. The reason that Karameikos is a nation is > because > > > the emperor traded it to Stefan because he did not want to devote the > > > resources necessary to tame the natives. Why would things change? > > > > > > Partially because the natives are already somewhat tamed (this is 60 years > later, things in Traldara *have* changed). Plus, remember Thyatis & > Alphatia controled the fertile areas of Ylaruam for centuries, not months, > before being driven out. And when they both were driven out it can be > argued that Al-Kalim succeeded at least in part because the two empires > distracted each other (they spent most of their resources vs. the other > empire, not in trying to hold some smallish towns in Ylaruam). Now Alphatia > is gone, so that distraction no longer exists. > > But, I reiterate, this being a fantasy world, "objective" factors will not > determine who wins and who loses - the only thing that makes a real > difference in the outcome is what the players & DM want to see happen. If > they are Karameikan heros, then after a long, hard, challenging battle they > will repel the invader and secure Karameikan liberty. If they are Thyatian > heros then after a long, hard, challenging struggle they will depose the > treasonous betrayer Stefan and restore Thyatian authority & the rule of law > over Traldara, freeing the inhabitants (blah blah blah). > That is the only "objective and logical" response. But I love debating, so > I gave the other as well 8-) - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:14:39 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth I didn't understand much of what you wrote .. I have a few questions for you. Perhaps I'm ignorant or just haven't read enough about Mystara to keep up with you here ... > My take on it is that Gareth is well.. simply Gareth. IMC I had a > wonderful > opportunity of introducing him to the players when they run the > adventure > about the One God I designed (where they had to help Sartori release One God? Did I miss something? I don't recall ever hearing of this before. Who's Sartori? > the > One God in exchange for the secret of the Craft). At one point, they What is the Craft? > manage > to get past the labyrinth below the Hinge, where the key to free the What is the Hinge? Where is it? What does it do? Where did it come from? > One is > located (actually, it's only the knowledge they must go to the > Shadowmaster > in the Nightmare Dimension to get the True Key they find). In the Who is the Shadowmaster? You lost me completely on your paranthetical statement. I don't understand any of that, in fact, I can't even make any sense of it whatsoever. When does this happen, I can't make that out? Is that something that your PCs still have to do, or is it somthing that they already did, do they have to go BACK to the Nightmare Dimension? What exactly does that statement mean? > ensuing > battle with the last guardians, they release three First Generation > Immortals that Sartori had sealed in that room to guard the key First Generation Immortals ... I'm assuming that they are the Immortals that were around before Thanatos, Odin, Ixion, and crew came about. They're the ones that the oldest Immortals can't remember; their Sponsors. Am I close here? How did the First Generation Immortals become sealed in "that room?" Also, which key are you referring to? You mentioned a key, a True Key, and I believe you aluded to the fact that the key is just information. Are any of these correct? > (knowing > that only another Sartori could defeat them, so the key was safe!). Sartori, are they a race, a group, a person? > One is > annihilated totally, another one is absorbed and the third is > subdued by One what? The One God you spoke of earlier? > the PC Sartori (long story). Well, at the end the PC Sartori gets PCs can be Sartori? I would REALLY appreciate it if someone brought me up to speed at these Sartori. > disintegrated, and from his body the lifeforce of the First > Generation > Immortal he had assimilated exits and introduces himself to the PCS: So, Sartori can imprison the First Generation Immortals. What could disintegrate a Sartori then? > Gareth, none the less (and he's indeed returned from the Vortex, > since his > prison was inside the Barrier). > So, Gareth is a First Generation Immortal. I get this part, and it's intriguing. > Next what he does is roaming around the Multiverse to see how it's > changed, > and after he sees the power the Immortals wield now, he begins > thinking: > "Hey, I'm a lot more powerful. Let's change this and supplant all of > them. > Let's hit them where it hurts, in Mystara.." And so he introduces > himself > as a Messiah who will free people from the Immortals' yoke.. while > in fact > he only wants to guide their path as HE pleases.. Now, if his goals > are > truly wonderful or simply egotistic I do not know, but that's what > happened > IMC.. ;) > > > DM > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about here. If you, or someone else, could bring me up to speed about what I've been missing, I'd very much appreciate it. Thanks! John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:35:42 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? I think one of the beautiful things about the MYSTARA Campaign world (Gazetteers, D&D modules, PWAs and all) is that for all its in-depth details, there's always space for creative development by the DM and tailor-fitting for the PCs and the campaign. The detailed accounts of the Gazetteers for example give a lot of good ideas for any campaign, though they have their share of lame ideas as well. But one thing I never see is strict restrictions forbidding any improvements or changes. I don't see something like this in any of the Gazeteers: "The ruler of Belcadiz is Princess Carnelia de Fedorias y Belcadiz. DMs are NOT allowed to suggest that the she is a puppet ruler, and that true ruler of Belcadiz is an undead Crone of Chaos who is the first High Mistress of Wokanism. DMs are also FORBIDDEN to introduce a dashing Erewan paramour of Carnelia's, who is using his personal relationship with the Princess to gain social and political clout in Belcadiz and perform criminal acts of political corruption." "Princess Carnelia has three children, named Miguelito, Sancho and Maria. DMs are NOT allowed to change this number or their names. Under NO circumstances should the DM give them nicknames from "their old school days at the Great School." DMs CANNOT introduce any secret illegitimate children of Princess Carnelia, and by all means PCs from your campaign CANNOT be a long-lost bastard child with Prince Jaggar from a short-lived secret affair decades ago that no one knew of until now." On a philosophical note, there's this idea I have about reality and the perception of reality of a campaign world like Mystara. What the PCs see/experience/perceive as reality makes the reality of the campaign world. Hmmm... How do I explain? Examples: So my PCs have heard of this Sind place and this Gareth Immortal. Hey, but they're Glantrians, and have no intentions of going to Sind, much less are they bothered to find out if Gareth is Benekander, Rad, Ixion, Hel, Loki, Thanatos, or Princess Carnelia's illegitimate bastard son with Prince Jaggar! As the DM, I don't wrack my brains about who Gareth is. Discussions are interesting, but ultimately, who Gareth is won't bother my PCs and won't affect my campaign. They'll never know, never need to know, and probably would never care. Another example: I bought the Blackmoor adventure of the "Temple of the Frog." I totally don't like the hi-tech DNA mutating stuff about the Frog Folk, but them Frog people sure make a nasty opponent. (I know one of my PCs is totally grossed out with frogs, and HIS reaction--a mixture of valley girl ICK-ICK-ICK-EEUWWW!!! with ANNAHILATE THEM IN THE FIERY RAGE OF ALPHAKS!!!--is something that can't be missed!) So IMC, the PCs cross a swamp, Frog People pop out from everywhere, the Alphaksan cleric has fun destroying them, I have fun watching the Alphaksan cleric squirm and gross out, and that makes for a fun game. Do they have to know that these Frog Folk are genetically engineered and not magical at all, ruining the feel of my high-magic fantasy campaign? No. Will they ever know? No. Is the reality of Mystara affected? Not really. Did I offend any "rules bigots"? I don't think so. My two tadpoles worth Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "No, no, no! Princess Dolores takes ONLY one lump in her tea! To even suggest that she takes TWO is absurd! It's definitely NOT canon! And where does it say that she makes her own crumpets?!" - --quoted from some rules bigot who's not enjoying the game... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:26:26 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? What may I add... Christian "Krieg!" Constantin - -----Message d'origine----- De : SteelAngel À : mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Date : 21 septembre, 1999 17:47 Objet : Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? > > >> The world of Mystara, while it in itself >> falls into the category of nearly dead (in the marketing eye that is) is >far >> from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if there are those that >> want to adapt a new class to it, or change an existing one, don't smite >them >> for it! I've said my piece, now lets hear yours. I'll be waiting . . . > >While I don't disagree that there are some people out there who are >canon-philes and bash _every_ new idea, there are some of us "OD&D Bigots" >who prefer to keep Mystara from becoming a hodgepodge of half-hearted ideas. >On the MMB, Bruce Heard himself came up with an idea to add the Thri-Keen (A >Dark Sun Race) to Mystara. There were some people up in arms about it. Their >point was that we can't just toss a race into Mystara without having a well >thought out background. > >To this point, I heartily agree. In my very few works that I have submitted >to the list's/board's inspection (The Snartan Gaz, Thimhallan, Southern >Vulcanian Timeline, etc..) I have made it a point to spend a whole hell of a >lot of time making my "product" compatible with: > >A) The Mystaran History as portrayed in the HW set, and various other OD&D >sources >B) The Rest of the Davanian Group's ideas. >C) The already-fan-published material out there, so I don't step on anyone's >toes. > >In other words, I support a coherent Mystara. You can pick and choose what >you like, but it will all fit together nicely, or at least somewhat nicely, >reducing the amount of hassle with incompatible ideas. Hell, I even bought >"CM4: Earthshaker!" to help with background info on the Snartan stuff >(Unfortunately it wasn't much help, 'scept for a nice background legend). > >I guess what I'm trying to say is that coming up with different ideas is >fine and welcome. Just _PLEASE_ take time to not just throw things into >Mystara without a good explaination why!! > > >Ethan > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:45:16 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >One question: The thing I never understood about the MOrient Project is why >an MChina in Skothar, when you've got Ochalea? IMHO, Ochalea is very similar >to the Han Chinese of central plains China (i.e. not Nepal, Tibet, >Manchuria, Mongolia, Taiwan, etc.). I don't think Ochalea is MJapan, and I >disagree with the reference to a Shinogawa river or something in the last >few Almanacs. Besides, there's an MJapan in Skothar. I think that the only reason to add a M-China (whereever it is) is that Ochalea is not enough. The explanation of the Alphatians changing to M-chinese is a fragile one, IMHO. Also, having a chinese culture vassal of Thyatis always seemed strange to my sinophile eyes. Also, the Chinese Empire is one of the few "constants" in the RW, I always thought that it deserved more than a small island lost in the sea without much of a cultural influence. > >Answer to my own question: Maybe Ochalea and MChina are like RWChina of >different eras and time periods, the way Sind and Shajapur are like RWIndia >of different times (Shajapur=16th century Moghal period, Sind=umm... I >dunno... not familiar with Indian history). Kevin Powers suggested that >Ochalea is like RWChina Confucian period... so... that would make MChina... >ummm... hmmm.... Even I would have to hit the history books again on that... Even if my campaign never went to Ochalea or Skothar, I always thought about proto-Ochalea as being an Alphatian colony in which the colonists were slowly integrated into natives of proto-Ethengar origin, so, the original population would be the close cousins of the bigger M-Chinese Empire. > >I do like the hints that the "pre-Ochaleans" (as I call them) came from >Skothar. IMO, the ancient Skothari people were a kind of generic >MOriental/MAsian race, some of whom went to Ochalea, most of whom remained, >and differentiated into the different MOrient cultures in Skothar. I have aproximately the same idea about their origin, as you can see... > >Another question: Dawn of Emperors hints that the Nuari came from the >east... and checking my D&D Rules Cyclopedia (my only map of Skothar), the >southern coast of Skothar has the Tangor Coast, Gulf of Tangor, Tangor Bay, >and the Tangor Jungles... So how do we fit the Tangor/Tanagoro and the >MOrientals in the same continent? Have all the Tangor/Tanagoro been >transported into the Hollow World, leaving Skothar for the MOrientals to >occupy? (Makes sense though...) You put the finger on the main problem of having M-Oriental in Skothar: where should we put the M-Africans then? I know that the M-Orient team had the idea to leave a M-Ethiopia in the middle of Skothar's mountains, but I must admit that this idea was most dissatisfying for me. I still have no answers on this one... > >Anyways, I hope this new interest will jump start the MOrient project! This project still "you yisi" (is interesting) as the M-Chinese would probably say! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:55:04 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: [MYSTARA] - What's going on? > Umm.. who were you referring to? Increasingly within the past couple days I have felt this same sentiment when reading messages on this list. I keep seeing things quoted that I don't remember reading from the list. Are only some of the messages posted to the list coming through? It could be that my server is acting up, and if I see much more stuff quoted that I never read I'll go look up the digests, but I was curious as to whether the upcoming transition to the tsr server. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:06:56 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >>Another question: Dawn of Emperors hints that the Nuari came from the >>east... and checking my D&D Rules Cyclopedia (my only map of Skothar), the >>southern coast of Skothar has the Tangor Coast, Gulf of Tangor, Tangor Bay, >>and the Tangor Jungles... So how do we fit the Tangor/Tanagoro and the >>MOrientals in the same continent? Have all the Tangor/Tanagoro been >>transported into the Hollow World, leaving Skothar for the MOrientals to >>occupy? (Makes sense though...) > >You put the finger on the main problem of having M-Oriental in Skothar: >where should we put the M-Africans then? I know that the M-Orient team had >the idea to leave a M-Ethiopia in the middle of Skothar's mountains, but I >must admit that this idea was most dissatisfying for me. I still have no >answers on this one... Well, IIRC we decided that the bulk of the Tanagoro had either moved to the Hollow World, settled on the coast in the Minaean City-States, or merged with Jennite/MOriental populations. In my opinion, there is already a great outer-world MAfrica in Yavdlom, but this is, admittedly, only part of RW African culture. One of our concerns was that, if indeed there are advanced cultures on Skothar, they would have pushed out more primitive HW-style Tanagoro or assimilated them. >>Anyways, I hope this new interest will jump start the MOrient project! >This project still "you yisi" (is interesting) as the M-Chinese would >probably say! I posted a quick note on the MMB that this has again come up for discussion on the MML, and I posted a link to your map--I hope you don't mind (if you do, I can take it out still, let me know) patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:38:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? > > to preserve that which is nearly dead already. What > > I am specifically > > addressing, are the OD&D bigots out there that feel > > the need to stick 100% to > > the rules spoon fed to them by a few people in the > > marketing department of a > > company that has been bought twice over now. Who has voiced such attitudes here? Everyone I've heard realizes that the game allows for a great deal of flexibility. Also, why do you condemn"OD&D" bigots? AD&D is IMO a far more rigid system that allows for less deviation. > Now that sounds a bit harsh. In fact, to me that > echoes a common sentiment in the AD&D camp that I find > a bit condescending: AD&D is better than OD&D because > it's 'advanced'. "My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday." - G.K. Chesterton > What's wrong with the OD&D rules? They work for many > people's campaigns... just like AD&D works for others. > My point is simply that each lends itself to a > different style of gaming and has advantages and > disadvantages. Pick the one that works for you and > respect the other(not to mention all the other > rule-systems Mystara has been adapted to). Or mix-and-match as you want, or ditch both systems and use whatever works. It's a game, people. - - Mischa The biggest problem of prejudice we face today is not black versus white...but rich versus poor - Jimmy Carter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:39:17 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard ARGH... I'm sorry I ever brought the subject up! Let's face one important fact, we all have our own opinions and plans for a Mystara campaign. Myself, I'm going to set it in the year 999 A.C., and well before WotI. So I'm not all that concerned with this argument. Plus, in a lot of ways, we all can forget that the world is for more than just the DungeonMaster. The players have as much effect as NPC's do, and we shouldn't pidgeonhole our expectations based on dry War Machine statistics. Adamantyr Håvard Rønne Faanes wrote: > On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > > (Someone): > > >2. Utter magical superiority.  Around one third of the current > > >Karameikan population are spell casters.  Yes, they are almost all > > >elves, but I think they would defend their eastern forest lands to the > > >death.  Especially the new immigrants from Alfheim.  Plus this is not > > >taking into account the Alphatian immigrants.  I would not be surprised > > >if the Karameikans didn't have a few skyships by now, built in secret. > > >Probably with the old Elvenguard serving as marines aboard the ships. > > > This is totally ubsurd. > > I´ve always found that emails with arguments backing up the statements > they present are far more interesting than those containing just > statements. Come on people, lets try to post things that the rest of the > MML actually can take some interest in. > > I dontr mean to sound rough, but I felt that this needed to be said. > > Haavard > > *** > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr > Garrison, South Park. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #408 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #409 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 409 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient [MYSTARA] - Alternate planar arrangement [MYSTARA] - Continuity-Lovers vs. World-Builders and OD&D-Users vs. AD&D-Users (was Loki vs Bozdogan) [MYSTARA] - What does the NoS drain now? [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan [MYSTARA] - Mystara fan from Italy Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient RE: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) RE: [MYSTARA] - Question of value Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate planar arrangement Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:55:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient In a message dated 1999-09-21 00:14:54 Eastern Daylight Time, BoBoII@aol.com writes: > Any thought to the fact that the DoE set states that the Nuar have dark skin, > similar to that found in the black empires of the far east? Anyone else > notice this or develop it in any way? Certainly the region labeled "Tangor" should have dark-skinned natives. If the M-Orient project made them into M-Asians, shame on them! BTW -- Demi-ogres whose human ancestors came from Tangor are mentioned in the "Known World Grimoire" article in Dragon #200. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:54:43 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Alternate planar arrangement Here is a scheme that would enable us to make use of most of the existing Planescape material without accepting the good/evil alignment axis added in AD&D or any of several other items that are incompatible with the Mystara setting: Inner Planes: These can be lifted from AD&D sources intact with one single exception -- no Immortals/Powers claim the Prime Material, Ethereal, or any Elemental plane as home. Suggestions for relocating such Immortals will be given later. Also, the Inner and Outer Planes have more inter-connec- tions than in the standard cosmology, as explained later. Prime Material Plane: This can also be lifted from AD&D sources intact, right down to the crystal spheres and phlogiston. However, the crystal sphere corresponding to "Mystaraspace" has one rather nasty characteristic: it exists and is accessible only from the outside. One a spelljamming ship enters that sphere, it cannot return the way it came -- its only options are to wander out into the vacuum between the stars (to almost certain doom, as magic works only within the Mystara solar system) or to land on a planet and then use planar travel to get back home. Furthermore, the exact "twist" one takes when entering the Prime Material Plane in general and Mystaraspace in particular govern which dimensional aspect of it one reaches. Most travelers reach the "Normal" dimension and never find out about the alternatives. The opposite from normal approach lands one in the "Nightmare" dimension, home of the diaboli. A truly perverse method of entry (possible only for somebody of Immortal or better intellect) will land one in the "Vortex" dimension. Astral Plane: The Astral Plane is the realm of mental constructs and thus its form is based on the expectations and beliefs of those who travel in it. The only Outer Planes that an astral traveler can reach voluntarily are those that the traveler believes in. Travelers from Mystara have the advantage of believing in the connection between the Astral and Ethereal planes and thus do not need to observe the restrictions on invoking ethereal or elemental spell effects on the astral plane or vice versa. However, their lack of belief in the connection between the Prime and Astral planes prevents astral projec- tion spells and effects from working for them. Of course, with proper experi- ence and education any Mystaran or non-Mystaran planar traveler can learn to overcome either of these limitations. Outer Planes: Since the Law/Chaos alignment axis is intact, those planes that correspond to the "pure" alignments of Law (Mechanus), Neutrality (Outlands), and Chaos (Limbo) also remain intact. The "Lower Planes" are associated with Entropy or Destruction in some form, while the "Upper Planes" are associated with Creation (the other four Spheres). The main Powers associated with these planes would be Primus (Mechanus), Azathoth (Limbo), and Ao (?) (Outlands). Lower Planes: The change of these planes from "Evil" to "Entropic" should leave these planes mostly intact, with one exception: "Evil" Powers who correspond to non-Entropic Immortals are evicted from these planes and relocated to the Upper Planes. The principal Lower Planes known to Mystarans are Pyts (aka the Abyss -- the home plane of most Immortals of Entropy), Baator (the source of the lawful fiends who trouble the Nightmare Dimension), and the Gray Waste (the main battleground of the Blood War). Upper Planes: Replacement of the "good" alignments with the four creative Spheres completely changes the available upper planes. From Law (Mechanus) to Chaos (Limbo), the new planes are as follows: Brynn (Matter) Beastlands (Matter/Time conflict --> life) Entrem (Time) Elysium (Time/Thought conflict --> dreams) Mirage (Thought) Radiance (Thought/Energy conflict --> arcane power) Draesten (Energy) Obviously the inhabitants of the "good" planes would have to be radically rearranged under this scheme, but from the above descriptions (along with the Sphere assignments in WotI), it should not be too difficult to work out that rearrangement. Mortal inhabitants can generally be left in place unless they live in unusual environments -- for example, aquatic inhabitants of the Upper Planes would tend to be concentrated in the Plane of Entrem, or perhaps in the "Archomental Plane of Water" that is connected with it. Archomental Planes: These planes are the philosophical counterparts of the physical elemental planes. They are connected not only to the corresponding elemental planes but to the corresponding "Upper" planes. Elementals may be summoned from these planes as well as from the standard Elemental planes -- but the elemental dominance rules, based as they are on the relationships among the Immortal Spheres, affect only those beings summoned from the Archomental planes. Powers who supposedly claim Elemental Planes as their home planes actually dwell in the corresponding Archomental planes. Draconic Planes: The home planes of lawful, neutral, and chaotic dragons, respectively, would be connected to the Beastlands, Elysium, and Radiance, respectively. The home plane of the Great One would be hidden among the home planes of the other draconic Immortals. Okay -- the target has been set up, now fire away! Please let me know of any omissions or inconsistencies that I have not at least pointed to a way of addressing. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:15:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: [MYSTARA] - Continuity-Lovers vs. World-Builders and OD&D-Users vs. AD&D-Users (was Loki vs Bozdogan) - --- Patrick Sullivan wrote: > I simply don't understand why there is suddenly such > a hostile opinion on > both the MML and the MMB about those who try to keep > their campaigns > generally in line with TSR-produced material. > Personally, any time I post > anything to either forum I am more than willing to > hear arguments against it > or arguments for improving it, primarily because my > knowledge of Mystara > products is incomplete and, if I am posting anything > in public, I try to > keep it generally in line with the standardized > Mystara on which most of our > campaigns are more or less based. I cannot speak > for everyone on the list, > but if I have offered comments in this vein when > they were not wanted I > certainly offer my apologies. Certainly anyone is > free to ignore any aspect > of Mystara, whether from a TSR product or from a > fan, but I really am rather > disturbed about this hostility to those who attempt > to rectify the conflicts > within Mystara literature. > Patrick I'd like to second Patrick's stance. I have no problem whatsoever with people having Mystaran campaigns that ignore or alter elements of canon, as this is all within the fine D&D tradition of "World-Building". But the recently expressed condescension and hostility towards those who enjoy applying their creativity towards finding solutions to Mystara's continuity conundrums (and I would say that this is a pastime which is as equally creative as world-building) is both unsettling and baffling. For an analogy, I wouldn't think that the members of the "Continuity-Lovers" faction of the Star Wars RPG Mailing List would be thought of as being mindless drones for trying to synchronize their home campaigns and fan-writings with that of the Star Wars canon, or for trying to think up possible "fixes" for canon continuity snags. I believe this sort of hostility would seem odd to those on the SWRPG ML, since most members there would find the desire to take canon into account (to a greater or lesser degree) would be almost a "given" for a Star Wars fan. Perhaps some of the World-Builders don't realize, that for many of us, Mystara is a uniquely created "universe" (no less so than the Star Wars and Star Trek universes, for example), which we've grown up with, and even have a sort of "love" for, and who, for this reason, wish to respect all existing canon elements of this beautiful world. Having said that, I don't wish to imply the reverse -- that the World-Builders are heathen savages who have no respect for Mystara, as this would deny the great creativity they use in reshaping Mystara to fit their needs. There are also many who feel love for the OD&D rules system as well. I suspect that the Continuity-Lovers tend towards using the looser, less rules-intensive OD&D system since this is what most of the 20 years worth of Mystaran material is described with, while the World-Builders may tend towards the more explicitly detailed AD&D system. In my opinion, the existence of both OD&D-Users and AD&D-Users on the Mystara forums, is entirely natural, since Mystaran materials have used both systems. One thing I'd add, is that since this is an explicitly Mystara and OD&D mailing list (this is the only forum on Earth for discussing OD&D, whereas there are several others available for discussing AD&D rules), that general AD&D rules-based discussions should try to be avoided, though AD&D discussions (or for that matter, SAGA, GURPS, Palladium, Rolemaster, etc.) that explicitly deal with Mystara should be (and are) welcome. As far as my own opinion on this matter, I view OD&D and AD&D (and its various editions) as two entirely distinct and equally valid methods for discribing Mystara's physical reality -- so much so that I view the OD&D Mystara Multiverse (which I call "Elder Mystara" or "Mystara of the Mystery Path" [which is the name of Mystara's home galaxy in the OD&D cosmology]), to be a seperate Reality than the AD&D Mystara Multiverse ("Greater Mystara" or "Mystara of the Crystal Sphere" [since the AD&D Mystara solar system probably lies within the Spelljammer cosmology]). So, I view the debate on the merits of OD&D Mystara vs. AD&D Mystara as moot, since my players could conceivably set foot in both of the differing Realities. For more on this dual, but separate OD&D/AD&D Mystara cosmology, see Marco's site at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/myssjrps.html. The last campaign I DMed was OD&D, but I own, and am familiar with, pretty much all of the AD&D (1E and 2E) rule books, including the Complete Handbooks and Player's/DM's Option books, so I do understand the love of detail and rules-clarity that the AD&D-Users are so fond of. However I think it's totally incorrect to simply say that the OD&D-Users are a bunch of Luddite ignoramuses, as OD&D has a beautiful simplicity, similar in some ways to the recent SAGA rules system used for Dragonlance and Marvel Super Heroes. Even though I am firmly a member of the Continuity-Lovers group, I feel that there is definitely a place for looser Mystara-based World-Building discussion as well. For instance, I find Savage Al's on-going MMB adventure journal -- which is based on a Savage-Coast-adapted "generic" AD&D2E module -- to be quite interesting (along with his various suggestions for other adaptations of non-Mystaran AD&D modules), and Mr. Darknerd's adaptation of "Cult of the Reptile God" (detailed on his now-defunct? website), though it differed from Mystaran canon, was rather good, and I even downloaded his map that showed where to place the module's village in northeastern Karameikos. I would hope that neither the Continuity-Lovers, nor the World-Builders (nor the OD&D-Users, nor the AD&D-Users) would feel left out on the MML/MMB, and I am opposed to members of either group saying that that other is silly or ignorant. My main wish on this whole controversy would be for members of the two factions of each axis (Continuity-Lovers vs. World-Builders, and OD&D-Users vs. AD&D-Users) to simply recognize the existence of each other, and that they are coming at Mystara from two different directions, and that therefore some posts will be relevant to one group, but irrrelevant to the other. For example, saying that Loki isn't really Bozdogan may be an interesting new interpretation for use in World-Builders' campaigns, but this is post, though valid, isn't really useful for Continuity-Lovers; and likewise, a seemingly endless, and impeccably canonically-referenced, debate on who Gareth really is, may be useless to World-Builders, who just want to "get on with it" and choose one (or none) of the above. Finally, I'd be interested in knowing what sorts of posts have made the World-Builders feel unwelcome, apparently so much so that they'd have the need to denigrate their fellow Mystarans of the Continuity-Loving and OD&D-Using factions. Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:24:49 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - What does the NoS drain now? I think I have worked out an explanation of what happened to the Nucleus of the Spheres during and after WotI that is most consistent with most available published information. In WotI, a group of adventurers did indeed succeed in altering that artifact so that it drained the Sphere of Entropy rather than the Sphere of Energy. In game terms, from late AC 1009 through the end of AC 1010 the Nucleus basically worked in reverse -- the number of Radiance users contributed to reducing rather than increasing the Rad force drain level. Had that process been able to continue indefinitely, the Rad force drain level would have eventually declined to zero and then had totally unanticipated effects as it went into negative levels. But there was no way that the Entropic Immortals would let that happen. At the end of AC 1009, the Rad force drain level had been reduced from the 500+ level to the 100+ level. However, since a "Week of No Magic" had occurred within the past year, nothing special happened on the "Day of Dread" at the end of that year. But the next "Day of Dread" would occur normally if that negative drain did not get out of hand. The night dragon Synn was drawn to Glantri and took advantage of the concentration of Entropic energy in Glantri (the one pro-Entropic side effect of the drain of Entropy) to manifest as Princess Dolores and insinuate herself into Glantrian politics. In addition to advancing her own power, Dolores used all of the resources at her disposal to hunt down and destroy members of the Brotherhood of the Radiance. Her victims that year included Danira Voshane (p. 121 of GKoM: The Grimoire) and Maximilian Hiltier (p. 119 of same book) -- and also note that Prince Etienne had been lost to Glantri in late AC 1009. Dolores' efforts were successful -- when the "Day of Dread" at the end of AC 1010 occurred as expected, the Nucleus of the Spheres went inert for that day. When magic returned the next day, the drain of Entropic energy into the Sphere of Energy was reversed -- from that point on the usual drain from Energy to Entropy resumed. From that point on, barring further intervention such as occurred during WotI, the Nucleus of the Spheres would continue draining the Sphere of Energy into the Sphere of Entropy as it had always done. That temporary "hiccup" of slightly over a year in which the drain occurred in the other direction was over, apparently for good. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:10:00 +-200 From: Mirko Pellicioni Subject: [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan Hello, my name is Mirko and it is the first time i there write. (sorry for my english) I'm iterest in mystara from the 1988 when in my country the first gazzetter are traslate in Italian. Now i have much module in english (very difficult to read for my sob!). From when Mystara line has stayed closed i have looked material in Internet. This Mailing-list is fantastic and the net book of Mystara very useful. Now i have a question. I love Maya, Aztech and sud american culture and i have Maztica of Forgotten Realm. ( i'm play Mystara in Ad&d now) There are the possibility to introduce this culture in Mystara ? I have Hollow word but i search to introduce this culture in discovery of the America campagn stile. Thank for your disponibility Ciao at all by Mirko italy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:17:25 +-200 From: Mirko Pellicioni Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara fan from Italy Hello, my name is Mirko and it is the first time i there write. (sorry for my english) I'm interest in mystara from the 1988 when in my country the first gazzetter are traslate in Italian. Now i have much module in english (very difficult to read for my, sob!). From when Mystara line has stayed closed i have looked material in Internet. This Mailing-list is fantastic and the net book of Mystara very useful. Now i have a question. I love Maya, Aztech and sud american culture and i have Maztica of Forgotten Realm. ( i'm play Mystara in Ad&d now) There are the possibility to introduce this culture in Mystara ? I have Hollow word but i search to introduce this culture in discovery of the America campagn stile. Thank for your disponibility Ciao at all by Mirko italy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:34:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient After reading through some of the M-Orient material (which has great potential), I decided to share some unorganized, random thoughts on the matter. One thing that I'm really not so sure about, is the fact that the Skothar countries will be humongous compared to Known World and Savage Coast nations (see http://chat.carleton.ca/~jduncan2/morient.html for a map of the M-Orient). If you could have a planetary map showing national boundaries, you'd find that, for example, M-Myanmar, M-Thailand, and M-Indochina are each going to be as large as the *entire* Known World! Admittedly, this problem was also evident for Alphatia, but this is possibly(?) one reason why the designers decided to sink Alphatia and make her colonies independent countries (wondering if this problem has been addressed in the Davania project as well). I think the concerns about having two M-Chinas is valid, as I think Ochalea seems meagre mainly because it hasn't been filled out enough -- I saw a provincial map of Ochalea somewhere on the web, and the place-names really inspired me, and captured the feel of Wuxia (the Chinese equivalent of "sword & sorcery"). Christian's point about Ochalea being subservient to Alphatia and Thyatis is valid [though isn't Ochalea finally independent after WotI? if so, couldn't we turn this into a grand national awakening equivalent to China's throwing off of centuries of foreign (Manchu, and earlier, Mongol) rule in 1911?], but if both are kept, Francisco's suggestion to make them M-Chinas of two different Chinese eras is good, or at least have some explanation as to why there are two similar cultures. As far as the M-Africans go, I really don't think the one M-East African/Swahili nation of Yavdlom is representative of the vast diversity of RW African culture (as many languages are spoken in RW Africa as in the rest of the world put together). Random note: for those not following the MMB, Sharon has a M-Bushman doglike race coming for the Hollow Moon. How about Asian and African versions of demihuman and humanoid nations? Is there an explanation as to why M-Asia won't be as "mixed-up" as the Known World (which isn't really a M-Europe), with its Norse, Arab, Balkan, Byzantine, German, Italian, Hawaiian, and Indian cultures side-by-side, or the Savage Coast's Balkan, Ottoman, Latino, French, Elizabethan, Australian, and Mesopotamian cultures? I'd hope, even though a region may have a general cultural theme, that the newly described regions were as mixed up and diverse as, and would have similar country-sizes as, the Known World and Savage Coast. I think any M-Orient should differ from the FR-Orient (Kara-Tur) in the same way that the M-Occident differs from the FR-Occident -- namely, that compared to Toril and Oerth, Mystara is a sorta zany tongue-in-cheek melting pot. Another suggestion is, instead of just M- versions of RW-Asian countries, how about independent M-equivalents of realms which only existed in Asian (and African) folktales and fairytales? Perhaps, we're taking things a bit too fast, as the KW took 15 years to develop, so we shouldn't feel the need to try to fill up *all* of Mystara's blank spaces at one time, necessarily (this could apply to the Davania project too). I mean, since TSR's most-likely *not* going to make new material for Mystara anytime soon (though I hope for a CD Atlas and CD Archive), we probably therefore have *decades* to fill out Mystara, so IMO we have plenty of time to make things just right. I know this may cause the M-Orient team to cringe, since they have already laid the foundation, but how about keeping the existing country names (eg. "Chung-Eun") and details, but shrinking M-Asia and reworking the boundaries so that there's room enough for a M-Africa on the Tangor Peninsula (assuming it's not being covered by the Davania team), shrinking the country-sizes to KW/SC size (though some may be as large as Thyatis, and a sparsely populated area [such as the Jennite lands] may be as large as Norwold), sprinkling in a goodly amount "out-of-place" cultures, a number of independent non-European demihuman and humanoid nations, adding a few "whimsical" nations which don't have RW-counterparts (like Alphatia), and leaving a large portion of Skothar blank for the time being. I know it's kinda jerky to critique something I haven't helped with, but since we were on the topic, I wanted to bring these issues up. I have no problem with the details I've read concerning particular M-Asian cultures, I only have concerns about the larger structure, and how well it stylistically matches existing Mystaran regions. Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:14:58 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient What do we REALLY know about Ochalea? Here's my two tengs worth about Ochalean mystique... It the 1014 and 1015 Almanacs, there has been a recent discovery that the Ochaleans are NOT descendants from Alphatians, but that Ochaleans are descendent from the MOrientals from Skothar (which makes more sense, IMO!). Hmm... "recent discovery"... This makes me wonder, where does our information about Ochalea come from? The Ochaleans? I don't think so. Why would a reclusive, conservative, highly-culutred, highly-educated, quiet nation, with attitudes bordering on xenophobia, bother with: a) wizards who consider them second class for not being able to cast ungodly wizard spells (Alphatians), b) disruptive, decadent, corrupt, war-mongerers (Thyatians), c) uncivilized savages (Hinterlanders), d) thieves and pirates (Minrothadders), e) naked hedonists (Pearl Islanders. OK, so maybe this is too extreme. They've got good relations, but they're too fun-loving and frivolous for the Ochalean sensibilities...), f) superstitious folk and creepy shapeshifters (Furmenglaivers from Isle of Dawn, their nearest neighbors), g) backward mystics of a dead civilization, whose mysticism borders on heresy (Thothians), h) and all "foreign demons" in general, who are all uncouth, uncultured, and cannot speak, much less read and write their beautiful language anyway? The Alphatians? I don't think so either. Alphatian attitude: "Why would our great empire of wizards bother with these spellcaster-wanna-bes, who live too far away, in a dumping ground of non-spellcasters, and can't even speak proper Alphatian? If it's just for clerical affairs, we've got our own cathedrals in Bettelyn on the mainland." Seriously, Alphatian interests probably went as far as the Isle of Dawn (and maybe because of the Thyatian presence there). But Alphatia never expanded its interests that far. Bellissaria is just another dumping ground for non-spellcasters, and the Alatian Islands is a great example of imperialist disasters! Ochalea is even farther than that. So what would Alphatians REALLY know about Ochalea? (Another factor against: I don't think the rest of the Thyatian-speaking world of Brun would really bother with Alphatian texts regarding some strange dull faraway land, no doubt written with Alphatian bias, and probably written in Alphatian too! If they didn't all sink at the bottom of the ocean...) The Thyatians? This is probably where most of our information comes from. But what do they REALLY know? IMO, very little. And the little they know, comes with a very strong Thyatian-bias. Even in the RW, it has only been in recent decades that the Western mind is beginning to really study and understand China and Chinese culture, what with its closed-doors policies, its conservativeness and (dare I say it?) xenophobic attitudes. Never mind the language barrier! In RWChina, the geographic boundaries of the Pacific Ocean to the east, and mountain ranges in the other 3 directions, naturally sheltered the Chinese from outside influence for centuries. In Ochalea, the sea would do the same thing. In Mystara, I suggest that Ochalea is still a mysterious land that the Westerners still do not comprehend completely. And the Ochaleans are NOT the most eager people to open their doors to outsiders! (And you thought elves were reclusive!) The "recent discovery" of their ancestry and connection with Skothar is an example of this. (Of course, the Ochaleans knew this all along! They just never bothered telling these Minrothadders or Nuari...) Oh, and I don't believe the "fact" that Ochaleans are all priests who pray and study and meditate all day, worshipping only Koryis and his ways of peace, and that they don't drink and gamble and steal and lie and rape and kill. I think Ochaleans, being very genteel and high on etiquette, are just very good at hiding the fact. The goody-goody-to-the-point-of-being-boring is just very good PR to the foreigners. After all, Ochaleans wouldn't show their dirty linen in public, and "a boring and dull nation" means "those Western demons won't bother to come here." I definitely think Ochalea has a DARK SIDE, and perhaps an even more dangerous dark side, cuz it's so well-hidden and secretive. (That's why I chose Nyx to be Koryis' main foe in Ochalea. If there's an Immortal who can hide her agendas, move only in shadows and mysteries, and keep everyone in the dark about it, it'll be Nyx!) So, my point? I think there's A LOT of space we can work in when it comes to Ochalea. Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph Top 10 Things You WON'T Hear in Ochalea, #7: "O welcome, foreign stranger! Let me share with you the innermost secrets of our religious studies, a product of 10,000 years of meditation, so that you may share it with the rest of the ungodly world of Western demons." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:35:21 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Shane Henry wrote: > After reading through some of the M-Orient material > (which has great potential), I decided to share some > unorganized, random thoughts on the matter. OK, let me share my thought (and replies to Shane's thoughts) in an organized matter: 1. MOrient and Skothar: A BIG PLACE!!! I've looked at my world map in the Rules Cyclopedia and Skothar IS a big place. I think the MOrient Project team should size down the MOrient countries. We can fit the M-Africans in the southern Tangor regions, the Jennites to the west, and there will still be a big space for the MOrientals in the north and east. 2. MOrient and RWOrient Countries: 1 is to 1? IMO, I don't think we have to have a 1 to 1 ratio of RW and MOriental countries. I recently attended a cultural show on the Ramayana, produced by the ASEAN (Alliance of South East Asian Nations), celebrating the cultural diversity and commonalities between all the SEAsian nations. (FYI, the Ramayana appears in almost all SEAsian cultures, with variations of course. But the fact that it's common is just amazing!) We had common origins culturally and ehtnically, and we still have very strong today, despite the modern divisions and borders, that are mostly political. I think MOrient nations should reflect the cultural diversity, rather than RW political differences. The only risk is that MOrient nations becoming hodge-podge like Kara-Tur... 3. MOrient and Kara-Tur (FROrient) No way! I never liked Kara-Tur. Too hodge-podge. Filled with stereotypes. Too heavy on RWJapanese and RWChinese cultures (more the former) with only token additions of Malaysian, Thai, or other Asian cultures. 4. Fantasy MOrient (and MAfrican) lands Sure! Whimsical, fantasic, legendary, dream lands found in RWOriental and RWAfrican cultures... What we are in fantasy-role-playing for? 5. MOrientals on Mystara doubling with MOrientals in the Hollow Moon Hmmm...... gotta think about that one... 6. Ochalea and MChina This I will write separately about. I've got more than 2 tengs to say about this. (Let's just say for the meantime, I don't think we need an MChina when we've got Ochalea...) Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:28:10 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) I hate to say it on the Mystara list, but my absolute favorite modules of all time have to be A1-4 the Slavers series, and T1-4 The Village of Hommlet and The Temple of Elemental Evil, both of which happen to be Greyhawk Modules. ASEO out *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:34:29 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Question of value No, The little Blackmoor Supplement II was basically the initial release of The Temple of the Frog which later became DA2. This book was going to be made into DA5, Blackmoor Castle, but TSR apparently decided to allow Judges Guild to run with the Blackmoor civilization as a backbone for their game world. ASEO out If memory serves me correctly it's the reprint of the original Blackmoor (back when D&D was the smaller books) >What is this? I have never heard of this. Does it have anything to do with Blackmoor of Mystara? >-- > >On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:19:45 Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX wrote: >>What is the value of a mint condition still in shrink wrap copy of the >>Judges Guild product: Blackmoor, The First Fantasy Campaign? >> >>ASEO out *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:51:45 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Alternate planar arrangement > Prime Material Plane: This can also be lifted from AD&D sources intact, > right down to the crystal spheres and phlogiston. However, the crystal > sphere corresponding to "Mystaraspace" has one rather nasty characteristic: > it exists and is accessible only from the outside. One a spelljamming > ship enters that sphere, it cannot return the way it came -- its only options > are to wander out into the vacuum between the stars (to almost certain > doom, as magic works only within the Mystara solar system) or to land on > a planet and then use planar travel to get back home. I _severely_ dislike the concept of crystal spheres. And I prefer that magic be able to be used anywhere in Mystara's prime (but Magic-space is not isotropic.. there would be singularities/denser distributions) Someone said at one point that a spelljammer entering mystara-space would encounter a crystal sphere, but a voidship would not. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:03:33 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Ok, wow, I'm going to try to answer at least some of the comments/criticisms/concerns recently posted regarding the MOrient. I have a feeling, though, that this is probably getting away from general list interest, and perhaps it should soon be taken to private e-mail. First off, regarding size/placement of MOriental cultures--that map was never intended to be a final draft, it was just something i made with paintbrush based at least loosely on our discussions up to that point because none of us had easy access to a scanner. The boundaries there were never intended to be restrictive political boundaries, but rather general cultural regions to provide at least one option for relative placement. One of the biggest problems we were facing was the terrain shown on the world map (which we were assuming to be generally accurate (see Christian Constantin's map at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/Graphs/Maps/Skothar.JPG to see the general terrain). The size of these areas is generally an attempt to give them similar terrain types as their RW counterparts. Another major concern is that the MOrient had to be either completely unworthy of Alphatian conquest (which really raises the question of why the Jennites haven't already destroyed them) or somehow strong enough that the Alphatians are reluctant/afraid to disturb them. We pretty much opted for the second, since the list's concensus was that MChina should be a major power, moreso than Thyatis, and enough to frighten Alphatia. Chung-Eun is still smaller than RW China (although the addtional territories added in Christian's map could bring it close), and we felt that it needed to be fairly large in order to frighten Alphatia, stand up to the Jennites, and occupy/border areas similar to the RW China and its neighbors. Regarding Ochalea v. Chung-Eun: I don't think the details on Ochalea were on the web yet when we were working on this. Since we never got terribly far with any of this, it would certainly make sense to make Chung-Eun=RW China at different time periods than Ochalea. Ochalea, IMO, is awfully small for a counterpart to China, but as a lost colony of Chung-Eun it would certainly make sense. Regarding MAfrica--I agree that there's a great deal more to do with MAfrican cultures. At some point this year I hope to begin posting details of the Nakakande and Konumtali regions of northern Yavdlom, trying to take inspiration from all over RW Sub-Saharan Africa. Nonetheless, I certainly understand the reluctance to take up such a large area which the Tanogoro used to inhabit. One of our dilemmas was that MAfrican cultures would have to hold their own against other potential rivals. If there is a culturally/technologically advanced MOriental culture on Skothar, it would make sense that most of the Tanogoro have either married into the MOrient or been diplaced (and removed to the Hollow World to save MTanogoro culture). The exceptions would have been those who settled in the Minaean City-States and those in the highland empire of MEthiopia. BTW--I seem to remember discussing the possibility that the world maps in the RC and HW are immortals' maps, and they would have named those areas based on the most significant inhabitants to the most immortals, namely the Tanogoro who were removed, with great immortal effort, to the Hollow World. >explanation as to why M-Asia won't be as "mixed-up" as >the Known World (which isn't really a M-Europe), with Well, in part, we intentionally decided to make the MOrient pretty big, which meant that we didn't need to squeeze everything in as much as in the Known World. Other than that, I suppose we were trying to be a bit more conscious of logical coherence than whoever initially drew the map of the Known World. The initial design of the known world seemed an attempt to squeeze as many cultures as possible into a very small area--we were, instead, trying to make a huge, impressive MOrient, nearly rivaling Alphatia in its scope. >melting pot. Another suggestion is, instead of just M- >versions of RW-Asian countries, how about independent >M-equivalents of realms which only existed in Asian >(and African) folktales and fairytales? Perhaps, we're Absolutely. As I said, those borders were never meant as anything more than general cultural boundaries. IMO we should try to keep cultures based on Vietnamese legends in MIndochina, etc. Regarding Kara-Tur, I've never looked at it, although I think other project members had IIRC. I really don't know what to say. If someone would like to make specific suggestions on how to develop this area, please feel free to do so. Also, if anyone is interested in developing Tanogoro cultures on the Tangor peninsula, please say so. However, IMO, Yavdlom and the Hollow World make sense for most of the MAfrican presence on Mystara, although there should certainly be a strong Tanogoro heritage in the southern parts of the MOrient. When the MOrient group broke off the list, it was simply because we were pretty much the only people who wanted to work on developing Skothar. The list has quite a few new members now, so perhaps there are different opinions, and I, and (i think) the rest of the team, are certainly willing to listen to comments, critiques, and suggestions, but the project seems pretty dormant at the moment, so I don't know if it will ever really go anywhere anyway. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #409 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #410 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 410 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! [MYSTARA] - Kudos to Shane and Patrick [MYSTARA] - (No Subject) [MYSTARA] - Topic of Continuity Re: [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan Re: [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention [MYSTARA] - Definition of OD&D-Bigot Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:13:00 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > I was just reading in PC4 that Lycanthopy was introduced by Alphatia. > I really do not like the idea, because it does not seem to make sense. I didn't care much for that idea myself. > Why did Alphatians have lycanthropy? How did Alphatians get lycanthropy? The idea is that Alphatians had shapechanging abilities which were somehow turned into the lycanthropy we know today. Maybe the whole thing was a failed magical experiment. > I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or > Gaia. She wanted to create warriors of the forest. However, some > warriors were corrupted by [insert favorite Entrophic Immortal here]. Sounds cool. At about what time do you think this would have happened? > This idea makes more sense, and is more fun and exciting. Also, > people can use lycanthropy in other timelines and campaigns such as: > Hollow World, Nithia, Olmecs, Blackmoor. Mystaros uses lycanthropes in his description of the Taymor Empire which existed at the same time as Nithia. Ie before Landfall. > Any comments? What do people think? IMC ive stated that lycanthopy has several sources. Landfall created a large plague, but a form of lycathropy already existed on Mystara at that time. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:33:27 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient IMO, we've got Ochalea, we don't need MChina. 1. Geography: RWChina is insulated/isolated from the rest of Asia by the Pacific to the east, and the tallest mountain ranges on the other 3 sides. Ochalea has the seas on all sides, and I think that would be isolation enough. RWChina is composed of about 50 ethnic groups located in several geographic territories. There are the Manchu in Manchuria (northeast), the Mongols in Inner Mongolia (north), the Uigurs in Xinjiang (northwest, related to the Turks, and more Caucasian- looking than other Chinese), the Tibetans in Tibet (southwest), and the Han Chinese in the Central Plains (These compose 90+% of the Chinese population and are the more popular idea of "Chinese" as a culture and race). I propose, Ochalea will compose of just these RWHan Chinese, since Skothar already has MTibet and Brun has the Ethengar (M-Mongols-Huns-Turks). I think this ethnic group can fit in the island of Ochalea. I've taken out my Known World map from Dawn of Emperors, and Ochalea is even bigger than Glantri! Hey, if we can fit the Belcadiz, the Erewan, the Aalbanese, the Boldavian, the Caurenzan, the Flaemish, the Sylaire, the Kaelic, the Ethenegar, and the Humanoids (Did I miss anyone?) in that small space, why can't we fit one ethnic group in their very own island that's bigger than Darokin! And we don't even have to put the MTibetans, M-Mongols and M-Manchurians! 2. Ethnicity: It was recently discovered that the Ochaleans originated from the MOriental people of Skothar, and NOT descended from the Alphatians. I say that erroenous idea was just Alphatian bragging. Hey, they even considered Thyatis as just one of their little rebellious dominions for a time. But, well, I don't hear them bragging about the Alatian Islands! And besides, I've got two words to say to these Alphatian braggarts: Sunken Continent! :P 3. History: Some of the MML expressed their opinion, that one main reason why Ochalea can't be MChina, is that it was "conquered" by the Alphatians and the Thyatians. For one thing, the RWChinese were for a time ruled by the Mongols and later by the Manchurians, whom even the Han Chinese considered as foreigners. And another thing, most of the known Ochalean history was written from the point of view of the Alphatians and the Thyatians. I propose an Ochalean point of view, to examine what is means that Ochalea was "conquered": The pre-Ochalean people (from Skothar) live in Ochalea, and non-spellcasting Alphatians join them there. They work together and form an independent, peaceful, and isolated kingdom in the middle of the sea, focused on clerical concerns. The Alphatian wizards finally take notice of that "faraway dumping ground for wizard-wanna-bes" and recognizes their considerable clerical power. They treat them nicely, thanks to the influence of Koryis (whom the Ochaleans learned of from the Alphatians), maybe with the same respect as the Thothians, and invite them to be part of the Alphatian Empire. The Ochaleans, well, acquiesce... since they'll still be a "Kingdom" (as all Alphatian nations are called), and these Alphatian "imperialists" (Ha! Big joke! Can you say: Alatian Islands?) would probably have no real power in Ochalea which is so far away from the main continent, and sure enough, the Alphatian adopt a laissez-faire policy in the Ochalea, tapping them only for rice and grain and livestock every now and then. The Ochaleans would like to be left alone, and the Alphatians give them just that. (Of course, the Alphatians will always brag about "conquering" Ochalea in their history books...) Then, the Alphatians war with these Thyatian rebels, and the Ochaleans manage to avoid it for the most part. But there is this one particularly stoopid Ochalean King, so foolish and blinded by ambition, that he allies himself with the Thyatian rebel leader Lucinius. Most Ochaleans think this King is stoopid to go with this bloodthirsty, villanous, treacherous, war-mongering Thyatian, and they're justified when the Ochalean King goes to Thyatis and gets himself killed. The Ochaleans go: "Serves himself right! Good riddance to him and his rotten dynasty! We'll find a new King for ourselves to start a new dynasty!" So, this new Ochalean King, wise and backed by popular support, sends envoys to Thyatis, properly informing the new Thyatian Emperor Zendrolion that he is the new Ochalean King, and that Ochalea would like to be left alone now. This power-mad Zendroloin has the audacity to call Ochalea his "Grand Duchy" and "appoints" this Ochalean King as the "Grand Duke." The Ochaleans are like, "Hokay! What-ever! Can we just go back to meditation now? Call us what you want, just leave us alone"--in Ochalean, of course. Does Thyatis have a real political and military presence in Ochalea? Well, first the Thyatian navy will have to cross the Sea of Dawn, defeat the Ochalean navy (Remember, Ochalea is an island nation from the very start!), land on Ochalea, and defeat the Ochalean army. Can you say, "Paper tiger"? Can you say, "Paper tiger in water"? How about, "Prayer to Protius"? How about, "Koryis, please protect us from these western demons of war"? In any case, the Ochaleans allow a perfunctory Thyatian naval fort in Beitung (as written in DoE), but that's just about it. When the Thyatians find out just what a "pearl" Ochalea is with all its festivities and nightlife and drinking and dancing and music halls... NOT!!! They realize that maybe they shouldn't have bothered in the first place. (Of course, when the Thyatian navy returns home, they'll surely boast of their daring exploits in conquering the land of chinky-eyed oriental devils!) A few years later, Empress Valentia makes the Ochaleans and the Pearl Islanders "citizens of Thyatis". "Whoopie-doo!" So while the adventorous Nuari scramble on their boats to send envoys and go explore the Great Empire of Thyatis... the Ochaleans...well... . To them, they are still the Kingdom of Ochalea, and they couldn't be bothered with these foreign labels. In any case, the Thyatians ended up to be as laissez-faire as the Alphatians. Thanks to Ochalean traditionalism, conservativism and xenophobia, the Thyatians did not really influence them culturally or economically, despite the 1,000 year of "vassalhood". DoE says that the Ochalean ruler, Archduke Teng "considers himself as much Thyatian as Ochalean." Hyeah right! And in the first opportunity 5 years later, he decides to drop the pretenses, dumps that Archduchy title to be recognized as a King and ruler of an independent nation. So you see, from the Ochalean standpoint, they were never conquered. 4. Conclusion: We don't need an MChina in Skothar. Give it to the Tangor/M-African people. Or maybe make MChina into M-Manchuria. My ten-thousand tengs worth... Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:54:49 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Well. Lcanthropy existed before the Blackmoor era. The Neathar used to wear animal clothing and beleived that they were the actual animals. They gained powers, and eventually through worship and sacrifice they became the animals themselves. (This is based on true religions practiced long ago. If anyone has seen the movie called 13th warrior, they will witness a good example of this practice) The Immortals of Entropy corrupted the people and made this transformation contageous. Those affected are warped and become servents of Entropy over time. They became a menace of the land threatening to destroy advanced civilizations. Eventually, nature's wrath destroyed lycanthropy. A disease was introduced from an unknown source. This disease only affected Lycanthropes. Thus Lycanthropy disappeared for many years to come, until during the time of the Nithian Empire and Taymor Empire. Lycanthropy was re-introduced by Gaia/Terra as a way to make nature's warriors (werewolves). They warriors were responsible for protecting nature against the ravages of Entropy. The warriors constantly combat the forces of Entropy (demons and such). Some warrior tribes were seduced by the Immortals of Entropy. These twisted warriors and their chaotic with their passionate murderous lust for blood, These servents of Entropy give lycanthropes a bad reputation, but even good lycanthropes have opposed forces of man to protect nature. Other pockets of lycanthropy survived the plague and Great Rain of Fire. They exist today as natural animals, some evil, some good. Some even worship the old gods of Entropy. Few tribes in existance practice older rituals to created unknownlycanthropes types of untold power. (Remember the movie called Relic) - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:13:00 =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= wrote: >On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > >> I was just reading in PC4 that Lycanthopy was introduced by Alphatia. >> I really do not like the idea, because it does not seem to make sense. > >I didn't care much for that idea myself. > >> Why did Alphatians have lycanthropy? How did Alphatians get lycanthropy? > >The idea is that Alphatians had shapechanging abilities which were somehow >turned into the lycanthropy we know today. Maybe the whole thing was a >failed magical experiment. > >> I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or >> Gaia. She wanted to create warriors of the forest. However, some >> warriors were corrupted by [insert favorite Entrophic Immortal here]. > >Sounds cool. At about what time do you think this would have happened? > > > This idea makes more sense, and is more fun and exciting. Also, >> people can use lycanthropy in other timelines and campaigns such as: >> Hollow World, Nithia, Olmecs, Blackmoor. > >Mystaros uses lycanthropes in his description of the Taymor Empire which >existed at the same time as Nithia. Ie before Landfall. > >> Any comments? What do people think? > >IMC ive stated that lycanthopy has several sources. Landfall created a >large plague, but a form of lycathropy already existed on Mystara at that >time. > >H?ard > >Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >"Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr >Garrison, South Park. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:03:54 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Kudos to Shane and Patrick I just wanted to give thanks to Shane and Patrick to the well developed comments. I really enjoyed reading their well thoughout statements. cheers, Joaquin Menchaca (Mr. Darknerd) - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:15:20 Shane Henry wrote: >--- Patrick Sullivan wrote: > >> I simply don't understand why there is suddenly such >> a hostile opinion on >> both the MML and the MMB about those who try to keep >> their campaigns >> generally in line with TSR-produced material. >> Personally, any time I post >> anything to either forum I am more than willing to >> hear arguments against it >> or arguments for improving it, primarily because my >> knowledge of Mystara >> products is incomplete and, if I am posting anything >> in public, I try to >> keep it generally in line with the standardized >> Mystara on which most of our >> campaigns are more or less based. I cannot speak >> for everyone on the list, >> but if I have offered comments in this vein when >> they were not wanted I >> certainly offer my apologies. Certainly anyone is >> free to ignore any aspect >> of Mystara, whether from a TSR product or from a >> fan, but I really am rather >> disturbed about this hostility to those who attempt >> to rectify the conflicts >> within Mystara literature. >> Patrick > >I'd like to second Patrick's stance. I have no problem >whatsoever with people having Mystaran campaigns that >ignore or alter elements of canon, as this is all >within the fine D&D tradition of "World-Building". But >the recently expressed condescension and hostility >towards those who enjoy applying their creativity >towards finding solutions to Mystara's continuity >conundrums (and I would say that this is a pastime >which is as equally creative as world-building) is >both unsettling and baffling. For an analogy, I >wouldn't think that the members of the >"Continuity-Lovers" faction of the Star Wars RPG >Mailing List would be thought of as being mindless >drones for trying to synchronize their home campaigns >and fan-writings with that of the Star Wars canon, or >for trying to think up possible "fixes" for canon >continuity snags. I believe this sort of hostility >would seem odd to those on the SWRPG ML, since most >members there would find the desire to take canon into >account (to a greater or lesser degree) would be >almost a "given" for a Star Wars fan. Perhaps some of >the World-Builders don't realize, that for many of us, >Mystara is a uniquely created "universe" (no less so >than the Star Wars and Star Trek universes, for >example), which we've grown up with, and even have a >sort of "love" for, and who, for this reason, wish to >respect all existing canon elements of this beautiful >world. Having said that, I don't wish to imply the >reverse -- that the World-Builders are heathen savages >who have no respect for Mystara, as this would deny >the great creativity they use in reshaping Mystara to >fit their needs. > >There are also many who feel love for the OD&D rules >system as well. I suspect that the Continuity-Lovers >tend towards using the looser, less rules-intensive >OD&D system since this is what most of the 20 years >worth of Mystaran material is described with, while >the World-Builders may tend towards the more >explicitly detailed AD&D system. In my opinion, the >existence of both OD&D-Users and AD&D-Users on the >Mystara forums, is entirely natural, since Mystaran >materials have used both systems. One thing I'd add, >is that since this is an explicitly Mystara and OD&D >mailing list (this is the only forum on Earth for >discussing OD&D, whereas there are several others >available for discussing AD&D rules), that general >AD&D rules-based discussions should try to be avoided, >though AD&D discussions (or for that matter, SAGA, >GURPS, Palladium, Rolemaster, etc.) that explicitly >deal with Mystara should be (and are) welcome. As far >as my own opinion on this matter, I view OD&D and AD&D >(and its various editions) as two entirely distinct >and equally valid methods for discribing Mystara's >physical reality -- so much so that I view the OD&D >Mystara Multiverse (which I call "Elder Mystara" or >"Mystara of the Mystery Path" [which is the name of >Mystara's home galaxy in the OD&D cosmology]), to be a >seperate Reality than the AD&D Mystara Multiverse >("Greater Mystara" or "Mystara of the Crystal Sphere" >[since the AD&D Mystara solar system probably lies >within the Spelljammer cosmology]). So, I view the >debate on the merits of OD&D Mystara vs. AD&D Mystara >as moot, since my players could conceivably set foot >in both of the differing Realities. For more on this >dual, but separate OD&D/AD&D Mystara cosmology, see >Marco's site at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/myssjrps.html. >The last campaign I DMed was OD&D, but I own, and am >familiar with, pretty much all of the AD&D (1E and 2E) >rule books, including the Complete Handbooks and >Player's/DM's Option books, so I do understand the >love of detail and rules-clarity that the AD&D-Users >are so fond of. However I think it's totally incorrect >to simply say that the OD&D-Users are a bunch of >Luddite ignoramuses, as OD&D has a beautiful >simplicity, similar in some ways to the recent SAGA >rules system used for Dragonlance and Marvel Super >Heroes. > >Even though I am firmly a member of the >Continuity-Lovers group, I feel that there is >definitely a place for looser Mystara-based >World-Building discussion as well. For instance, I >find Savage Al's on-going MMB adventure journal -- >which is based on a Savage-Coast-adapted "generic" >AD&D2E module -- to be quite interesting (along with >his various suggestions for other adaptations of >non-Mystaran AD&D modules), and Mr. Darknerd's >adaptation of "Cult of the Reptile God" (detailed on >his now-defunct? website), though it differed from >Mystaran canon, was rather good, and I even downloaded >his map that showed where to place the module's >village in northeastern Karameikos. I would hope that >neither the Continuity-Lovers, nor the World-Builders >(nor the OD&D-Users, nor the AD&D-Users) would feel >left out on the MML/MMB, and I am opposed to members >of either group saying that that other is silly or >ignorant. My main wish on this whole controversy would >be for members of the two factions of each axis >(Continuity-Lovers vs. World-Builders, and OD&D-Users >vs. AD&D-Users) to simply recognize the existence of >each other, and that they are coming at Mystara from >two different directions, and that therefore some >posts will be relevant to one group, but irrrelevant >to the other. For example, saying that Loki isn't >really Bozdogan may be an interesting new >interpretation for use in World-Builders' campaigns, >but this is post, though valid, isn't really useful >for Continuity-Lovers; and likewise, a seemingly >endless, and impeccably canonically-referenced, debate >on who Gareth really is, may be useless to >World-Builders, who just want to "get on with it" and >choose one (or none) of the above. Finally, I'd be >interested in knowing what sorts of posts have made >the World-Builders feel unwelcome, apparently so much >so that they'd have the need to denigrate their fellow >Mystarans of the Continuity-Loving and OD&D-Using >factions. > >Shane > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:28:28 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - (No Subject) I have to say that I'm both a World-Building and Continuity-Lover. I really wish to follow Mystara material to the tee, but not at the sacrifice of good imagination combined with some realistic reasoning. However, there are severe elements within the Mystara campaign that are not continuous. In fact, some elements are IMHO completely ludicrous. I think that these need to be patched, but in a way where everyone can accept the patch. This is done for the sake of continuity. However, I really do not like it when people disagree and maybe get abusive because it may disagree with the printed material. I don't like people mindlessly following the books (OD&D and Mystara) like it is the Bible. sincere regards, Joaquin Menchaca PS - I think there needs to be a new category added: Mystara-Bible-Lovers. These are Continuity-Lovers, but are not willing to change Mystara even though it would make it have continuity HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:29:01 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Topic of Continuity I have to say that I'm both a World-Building and Continuity-Lover. I really wish to follow Mystara material to the tee, but not at the sacrifice of good imagination combined with some realistic reasoning. However, there are severe elements within the Mystara campaign that are not continuous. In fact, some elements are IMHO completely ludicrous. I think that these need to be patched, but in a way where everyone can accept the patch. This is done for the sake of continuity. However, I really do not like it when people disagree and maybe get abusive because it may disagree with the printed material. I don't like people mindlessly following the books (OD&D and Mystara) like it is the Bible. sincere regards, Joaquin Menchaca PS - I think there needs to be a new category added: Mystara-Bible-Lovers. These are Continuity-Lovers, but are not willing to change Mystara even though it would make it have continuity HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:36:02 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan if you prefer gazetteers in french, call me Mirko Pellicioni a écrit: > Hello, my name is Mirko and it is the first time i there write. > (sorry for my english) > I'm iterest in mystara from the 1988 when in my country the first gazzetter are traslate in Italian. > Now i have much module in english (very difficult to read for my sob!). > >From when Mystara line has stayed closed i have looked material in Internet. > This Mailing-list is fantastic and the net book of Mystara very useful. > Now i have a question. > I love Maya, Aztech and sud american culture and i have Maztica of Forgotten Realm. ( i'm play Mystara in Ad&d now) > There are the possibility to introduce this culture in Mystara ? > I have Hollow word but i search to introduce this culture in discovery of the America campagn stile. > Thank for your disponibility > > Ciao at all by Mirko italy > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:46:06 +0100 From: "Hoddie" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - fron Italian Mystara fan > (sorry for my english) Why is it that everybody who says this usually writes better English than the, er, English? Hoddie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:43:42 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry I have been criticized abusively sometimes for contributing ideas to Mystara because I introduced material in AD&D2 format. I even saw Bruce Heard, one of the creators of Mystaran material at TSR, criticized because of his idea to introduce the Thri-Kreen as the mortal enemy of the Herathians. They criticized him for using a AD&D2 monster. I really think this type of attitude has gone too far, and I do not welcome foul or critical comments from people whom feel everything non-OD&D is unacceptable. There are wonderful ideas that can be apart of Mystara, and it does not matter what rule system the ideas are presented in (GURPS, Vampire, AD&D2, OD&D, D&D5, etc.). Ideas are Ideas. Monsters are Monsters. These things can be described in any gaming rule system. It is really demoralizing to have your contribution criticized harshly because they are not pure OD&D in their presentation. People may not want to contribute any longer after having their imaginative ideas belittled and ripped apart. Personally, if I have an audience on a particular idea, and I get requests to have an OD&D presentation, I will do so. I introduced the Selenii clan of elves, and I did a OD&D write-up as well and also included some new spells as well. I did this under the understanding and respect that there are indeed OD&D players out there. However, I might not be so inclined to do something like this if people bash my ideas. If I see my ideas based on the merit of being non-D&D, or someone else's ideas bashed for not being OD&D, then I will likewise give them some of their own medicine. I will not tolerate OD&D Bigotry. regards, Joaquin Menchaca HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:47:02 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Mr. The Rusty, Why do you like the idea that lycanthropy is from Alphatia? Do you have some insight on the matter that you would like to contribute to the discussion? - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:24:32 The Rusty wrote: >> I like the idea that lycanthropy was introduced by immortal Terra or Gaia. >And I like the idea that lycanthropy was something brought to Mystara from >the home dimension of the Alphatians. To me it makes perfect sense, but to >each their own, I guess. > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:01:20 EDT From: M76762@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention I have recently re-signed up for the Mystara mailing list. Hello to you all again. I have just a few questions for you all. 1. Where can I find some good maps of Mystara? If any of you have them on your webpages, or know any good books to find them in, please let me know! I am in need of good maps for adventures, PCs to find, etc etc etc. 2. The second is likely to be more interesting. I run conventions from time to time and next year will be my third. Originally I have been doing conventions for an OOP TSR game called "Star Frontiers." But next year I intend to welcome all Sci-Fi AND OOP games. This will include OD&D and AD&D 1st edition. It will also include the world of Mystara, which is one of my personal favorites. My question is, would you guys be interested in attending a convention like this in East Tennessee. I would need people to volunteer to run games, and reliable people at that. Plus players would need to come and play. What do you guys say? NOTE: SciCon (my convention) is sanctioned by TSR. If any of you are Star Frontiers players please let me know if you would like more information about SciCon2 coming up in late October. Thanks. Matt & Yazin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:04:14 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Definition of OD&D-Bigot Or the more politically correct term "OD&D-Lover" crowd. I think this quote of Meltheim basically describes the cult of OD&D-Lovers: "Many of us here in fact, are set in our ways and cannot begin to comprehend the mindless drivel we put others through in our attempt to preserve that which is nearly dead already." HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:10:41 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? The Mindless-Mystaran-Bible Group will smite you were you stand you blasphemer for not following the Holy Texts of Gazetteer!!!! You shamelessly disobeyed the rules of Gygax and corrupted the sanctity of the frog of DA3. Repent son, Repent, or suffer the consequences. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:09:19 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > I have been criticized abusively sometimes for contributing ideas to > Mystara because I introduced material in AD&D2 format. I even saw > Bruce Heard, one of the creators of Mystaran material at TSR, > criticized because of his idea to introduce the Thri-Kreen as the > mortal enemy of the Herathians. They criticized him for using a AD&D2 > monster. Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to constructive criticism. But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid. I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of resources which can be easily adapted. I've never seen the thri-kreen stuff you mention. Is that from the message board? > I really think this type of attitude has gone too far, and I do not > welcome foul or critical comments from people whom feel everything > non-OD&D is unacceptable. foul comments are definately out. I personally havent seen much of it, but then again, I havent been able to read all the posts on the MML lately. > It is really demoralizing to have your contribution criticized harshly > because they are not pure OD&D in their presentation. People may not > want to contribute any longer after having their imaginative ideas > belittled and ripped apart. Yep. I agree with you here, and if you have received such messages I completely sympathize with you. This is not what the MML is for. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:15:51 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? I think you fail to see the point. You have an opinion about OD&D and AD&D. That is fine. But others here and elsewhere have criticized others to introduced material that is not in the OD&D format. Bruce Heard even got a tast of an OD&D-Bigots foul medicine for introducing a Thri-Kreen. I myself am sick of this, and will not tolerate ridiculing ideas because they did not originate in the OD&D rule system. The mailing list is about Mystara, not OD&D. - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:38:12 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> > to preserve that which is nearly dead already. What >> > I am specifically >> > addressing, are the OD&D bigots out there that feel >> > the need to stick 100% to >> > the rules spoon fed to them by a few people in the >> > marketing department of a >> > company that has been bought twice over now. > >Who has voiced such attitudes here? Everyone I've heard realizes that the >game allows for a great deal of flexibility. Also, why do you >condemn"OD&D" bigots? AD&D is IMO a far more rigid system that allows for >less deviation. > >> Now that sounds a bit harsh. In fact, to me that >> echoes a common sentiment in the AD&D camp that I find >> a bit condescending: AD&D is better than OD&D because >> it's 'advanced'. > >"My attitude toward progress has passed from antagonism to > boredom. I have long ceased to argue with people who prefer > Thursday to Wednesday because it is Thursday." - G.K. Chesterton > >> What's wrong with the OD&D rules? They work for many >> people's campaigns... just like AD&D works for others. >> My point is simply that each lends itself to a >> different style of gaming and has advantages and >> disadvantages. Pick the one that works for you and >> respect the other(not to mention all the other >> rule-systems Mystara has been adapted to). > >Or mix-and-match as you want, or ditch both systems and use whatever >works. It's a game, people. > >- Mischa > >The biggest problem of prejudice we face today is not black versus >white...but rich versus poor - Jimmy Carter > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #410 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #411 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 411 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Facations of the MML Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Irregardless? [OT] Many lists (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own?) [MYSTARA] - WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Re: [MYSTARA] - Irregardless? Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:28:14 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Facations of the MML I'm seeing the following groups: OD&D-Lovers - Those that appreciate OD&D OD&D-Bigots - Those that appreciate OD&D, but also feel the need to bash others for for introducing Mystara material in a non-OD&D format, or not accepting Mystaran contributions because the the content was originally presented in a non-OD&D format, or was introduced in a non OD&D fomat. AD&D-Lovers - Those that appreciate AD&D. Mystara Gamers - Those that don't care and will play or accept any Mystara material irregardless of the orgin or game rules. Continuity-Lovers - Those that want sensible continuity in the campaign, but are unwilling to dramatically change the Mystaran campaign material. Things can be patched as long as it makes sense and does not disrupt the continuity. Mystara-Bilble-Lovers - Those that will never accept any changes despite the logic involved. Mystara is like the Bible to them, and nothing can ever change, no matter how absurd the material presented is. World-Builders - Those that will change anything for the fun of it despite whether it fits with the rest of the Mystaran world. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:41:52 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? Well said. I agree with you a 100%. I try to have well developed ideas to make the campaign work. Some elements are missing, or vaguely mentioned in the gazetteer, and I try to present a good throughtful explanation and relate to the other material out there. Personally, I have acquired a large collection of Mystaran material for reference. So I do the same. However all to often I see people's ideas bashed, not because they don't fit with Mystara, but rather that it was introduced with AD&D2 rules or orgins. In the case of Thri-Kreen there were good discussions, and the Thri-Kreen was molded into the MantisFolk. However one OD&D-Bigot didn't like Bruce's contribution solely because it had an AD&D2 writeup orginally in the MM. - -- On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:49:05 SteelAngel wrote: > > >> The world of Mystara, while it in itself >> falls into the category of nearly dead (in the marketing eye that is) is >far >> from it. It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad, and if there are those that >> want to adapt a new class to it, or change an existing one, don't smite >them >> for it! I've said my piece, now lets hear yours. I'll be waiting . . . > >While I don't disagree that there are some people out there who are >canon-philes and bash _every_ new idea, there are some of us "OD&D Bigots" >who prefer to keep Mystara from becoming a hodgepodge of half-hearted ideas. >On the MMB, Bruce Heard himself came up with an idea to add the Thri-Keen (A >Dark Sun Race) to Mystara. There were some people up in arms about it. Their >point was that we can't just toss a race into Mystara without having a well >thought out background. > >To this point, I heartily agree. In my very few works that I have submitted >to the list's/board's inspection (The Snartan Gaz, Thimhallan, Southern >Vulcanian Timeline, etc..) I have made it a point to spend a whole hell of a >lot of time making my "product" compatible with: > >A) The Mystaran History as portrayed in the HW set, and various other OD&D >sources >B) The Rest of the Davanian Group's ideas. >C) The already-fan-published material out there, so I don't step on anyone's >toes. > >In other words, I support a coherent Mystara. You can pick and choose what >you like, but it will all fit together nicely, or at least somewhat nicely, >reducing the amount of hassle with incompatible ideas. Hell, I even bought >"CM4: Earthshaker!" to help with background info on the Snartan stuff >(Unfortunately it wasn't much help, 'scept for a nice background legend). > >I guess what I'm trying to say is that coming up with different ideas is >fine and welcome. Just _PLEASE_ take time to not just throw things into >Mystara without a good explaination why!! > > >Ethan > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:55:42 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > I think you fail to see the point. You have an opinion about OD&D and AD&D. That is fine. But others here and elsewhere have criticized others to introduced material that is not in the OD&D format. Bruce Heard even got a tast of an OD&D-Bigots foul medicine for introducing a Thri-Kreen. > > I myself am sick of this, and will not tolerate ridiculing ideas because they did not originate in the OD&D rule system. The mailing list is about Mystara, not OD&D. Um, I hate to burst your bubble, Sir Darknerd, but this list IS for OD&D as well as Mystara and Blackmoor. From what I understand, it was to be the list for those disenfranchised OD&D products, of which Mystara is the most popular. Myself I play a strange combination of 1st and 2nd edition AD&D and some OD&D thrown in for good measure. Whatever your flavor, as long as it's in Mystara it belongs here. I empathize if your work has been shot down here. Mine tends to be ignored. But if you understand what makes you and your players happy as far as rules systems go, what else is there? Ignore the nay-sayers and the "bigots." Eventually your work will be appreciated by those who care little for systems and more for ideas. For what it's worth, - --Frobozz-- ________________________________________________________ "My, my, this here Anakin guy may be Vader some day later, now he's just a small fry. And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye, saying, "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi. Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi." --"Weird Al" Yankovic, "the Saga Begins" (sung to the tune of "American Pie.") *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:57:47 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to constructive criticism.<< [Håvard] I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin was trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't fit one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How to make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid.<< ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should accept this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or the MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of resources which can be easily adapted.<< Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not necessarily mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about something like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. The point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:15:02 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so are twofold: 1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. OD&D is something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the game looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only one with any) and generally do not have as much fun. 2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I made and played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he worked beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations and multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy it, play it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what works best for you. Adamantyr "It's Specularum, damn it!" Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to > constructive criticism.<<  [Håvard] > > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin was > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't fit > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How to > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. > > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid.<< > > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should accept > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or the > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. > > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of > resources which can be easily adapted.<< > > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not necessarily > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about something > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. The > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. > > Bruce Heard > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:19:10 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > > > I think you fail to see the point.  You have an opinion about OD&D and AD&D.  That is fine.  But others here and elsewhere have criticized others to introduced material that is not in the OD&D format.  Bruce Heard even got a tast of an OD&D-Bigots foul medicine for introducing a Thri-Kreen. > > > > I myself am sick of this, and will not tolerate ridiculing ideas because they did not originate in the OD&D rule system.  The mailing list is about Mystara, not OD&D. > > Um, I hate to burst your bubble, Sir Darknerd, but this list IS for OD&D > as well as Mystara and Blackmoor.  From what I understand, it was to be > the list for those disenfranchised OD&D products, of which Mystara is the > most popular.  Myself I play a strange combination of 1st and 2nd edition > AD&D and some OD&D thrown in for good measure.  Whatever your flavor, as > long as it's in Mystara it belongs here. I don't think Darkherd is arguing that OD&D shouldn't be discussed. It's that Mystara is the one true subject here, and that comparing rules systems is a total waste of time, and not something I want to see debated day in and out. (Like what that Jesse guy posted about 3rd edition, that was a complete abuse of this mailing list.) > I empathize if your work has been shot down here.  Mine tends to be > ignored.  But if you understand what makes you and your players happy as > far as rules systems go, what else is there?  Ignore the nay-sayers and > the "bigots."  Eventually your work will be appreciated by those who care > little for systems and more for ideas. > > For what it's worth, > --Frobozz-- > > ________________________________________________________ > "My, my, this here Anakin guy > may be Vader some day later, now he's just a small fry. > And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye, > saying, "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi.  Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi." >         --"Weird Al" Yankovic, "the Saga Begins" >         (sung to the tune of "American Pie.") > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, the Wizard of Frobozz wrote: > Um, I hate to burst your bubble, Sir Darknerd, but this list IS for OD&D > as well as Mystara and Blackmoor. From what I understand, it was to be > the list for those disenfranchised OD&D products, of which Mystara is the > most popular. Well, it was started primarily as a Mystara resource, but with OD&D discussion being permitted. Now though there is a separate D&D list, something not in existance previously, so this forum need not be devoted to non-Mystara OD&D discussion, but rather Mystara discussion in general. If I'm wrong of course, Leroy can correct me. > I empathize if your work has been shot down here. Mine tends to be > ignored. Or more generally, appreciated but not commented on. I know I rarely thank those who come up with interesting rules (like the sand folk class) or various timelines yet this doesn't mean I don't like their work. When I've written stuff (and begged for feedback) I rarely get commentary, pro or con, but if I specifically ask an individual for their response, I get constructive criticism and realize that people do actually read what I write (always a helpful feeling). So, IOW, don't be so concerned if you don't hear back from the list as a whole. - - Mischa I know one day I'll play in the majors, even if it's only for one day - Jeff Bannister, who would get one major league at-bat in his career and promptly got a hit. Bannister battled bone cancer and osteomyelitis and had 7 operations on his left leg and ankle as a teen ager *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:55:21 -0400 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? and where does one find the d&d list Ken who thinks to him self do I really need a another list to read. LOL > Well, it was started primarily as a Mystara resource, but with OD&D > discussion being permitted. Now though there is a separate D&D list, > something not in existance previously, so this forum need not be devoted > to non-Mystara OD&D discussion, but rather Mystara discussion in general. > If I'm wrong of course, Leroy can correct me. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:51:31 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? OK, I'll admit it. I play second edition, sans Skills & Powers. I tend to use first edition mudules because they are the best ones written. I DM in a generic home melded world that comprises Greyhawk and Mystara. My campaigns run 1st through ~15th level. My campaigns are usually a string of TSR modules with a common theme and modifications. Some examples: Anti Slaver senerio. Characters sent to investigate reports of unnatural creatures and missing people in some small towns. The party starts out as strangers on a slaving ship in "N4, Treasure Hunt" then I run "Terrible Trouble at Tragidor", coupled with "N2, The Forest Oricle". I change N2 so that the local Druid has been corrupted by Drow (Which I like). The characters get help from a neighboring druid after helping him out, then proceed to the corrupted grove where I run "The Forest of Doom" out of an old DRAGON Magazine. After defeating the drow at the grove and restoring the druid they are invited by Dame Gold, a friend of the druid, to a party. I then run the super module "A1-4, Scourge of the Slave Lords" (sometimes I use a portion of GAMMA WORLD module "GW1, Lefion of Gold" (The sub-aquatic labratory) as an alternative excape route from the island at the end of A4 (just as a twist). I keep the brothers cure plot going through out this series and have the characters try to deliver the cure to the sick brother in the southern contanant's jungles. I then run "X1, Isle of Dread" and sometimes "X8, Drums on fire Mountain" as sea based adventures while the party travels. I usually ship wreck them on X8 and have a boat belonging to the wereboar hidden away so that the party can excape. The Si-Fi aspects of this module are a neat link if I have run the previously mentioned GW1. The party eventually arrives at the southern contanant where I sometimes run "X6, Quagmire" as a way for them to get in on the native's good side. The natives point them in the brother's direction and the party stumbles into "C1, The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan" befor finding the brother in "I2, The Tomb of the Lizard King". The party then returns to the Northern contanant with a few additional sea based adventures and an encounter with a pirate or three from DUNGEON Magazine. So, there you have it. N4 Terrible Trouble at Tragidor N2 The Forest of Doom A1-4 super module GW1 X1 X8 X6 C1 I2 and Several DUNGEON Side-Treks. - -- Desert modules which I've linked include B7 X4 X5 I3-5 Super Module I9 X10 and again Several modules from DUNGEON - -- I am currently working on a Vs. The Giants Campaign. So, There you have it. I've broken about every OD&D/Mystara Bigot/Purist code out there. And after 21 years of playing all the incarnations of D&D, I'm still having a ball. ASEO out *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:55:03 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention well for the maps you can go to Shawn's site at http://dnd.starflung.com/ , Christian Constantin's site http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/ , or my own.(see the adress at the end of the message). thib M76762@aol.com a écrit: > I have recently re-signed up for the Mystara mailing list. Hello to you all > again. I have just a few questions for you all. > > 1. Where can I find some good maps of Mystara? If any of you have them on > your webpages, or know any good books to find them in, please let me know! I > am in need of good maps for adventures, PCs to find, etc etc etc. > > 2. The second is likely to be more interesting. I run conventions from time > to time and next year will be my third. Originally I have been doing > conventions for an OOP TSR game called "Star Frontiers." But next year I > intend to welcome all Sci-Fi AND OOP games. This will include OD&D and AD&D > 1st edition. It will also include the world of Mystara, which is one of my > personal favorites. > My question is, would you guys be interested in attending a convention > like this in East Tennessee. I would need people to volunteer to run games, > and reliable people at that. Plus players would need to come and play. What > do you guys say? > NOTE: SciCon (my convention) is sanctioned by TSR. If any of you are > Star Frontiers players please let me know if you would like more information > about SciCon2 coming up in late October. Thanks. > Matt & Yazin > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:06:24 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? There is one on "onelist.com" . Go there and look for the list "bdnd". There aren't a lot of people who use that, so there's not a lot of discussion. I think that the major problem is that there are only so many things that you can bring up about the rule system without getting into world-specific topics. John Hofmann On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:55:21 -0400 Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch writes: > and where does one find the d&d list > Ken > who thinks to him self do I really need a another list to read. LOL > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:15:08 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Irregardless? > Mystara Gamers - Those that don't care and will play > or accept any Mystara material > irregardless of the orgin or game > rules. Sorry, just a pet peeve here.... Irregardless? Without having lack of regard? or Regardfull? Or do you mean perhaps just Regardless? Not bashing, just laughing :-) I agree with the definitions, though. Also... Can't everybody just get over with it? Not to be too critical, but really, haven't we all heard enough about bashing? I'd much rather hear about others campaigns and ideas, than complaints about complaints about disagreeing about somebodies personal campaign. SO, in the interest of subject-changing, what does everyone think about the time period to campaign in? I'm currently trying to play just prior to WotI, but as I'm just the player, I have no idea where it will lead or how involved we'll get to be. I'm also one of the poor few that do not have the WotI set. Any suggestions where to look? Myrkul, Mystic of the Andrew Theisen Order aka Ed Paynter epaynter@iupui.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:19:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: [OT] Many lists (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own?) > and where does one find the d&d list Neil Daskal runs it IIRC. He shouldn't be too hard to track down, but I don't have his email handy. > who thinks to him self do I really need a another list to read. LOL Oh, I don't bother keeping track anymore. Off-hand, I can think of the following that I'm on - (talk about variety) Mystara world-creation Pgh. Pirates Alliance for Democracy (2 lists) Sojourners Black Radical Congress COEJL (Coalition on the Environment and Jewish life IIRC) fanfic-writers Amnesty Itl. Focus on the Corporation Environmental Defense Fund "pitt-left" D&D Thomas Merton Center MUSH-admin femmes-unite (for fans of "female" Transformers) The Art of Game Mastering and who knows what else. (Of course that overlooks the numerous lists I've left or that have vanished, such as several PFRPG lists, a Dragonlance one, another MU*-admin one, several specific MUSH ones, a Toronto Blue Jays list, etc, etc.) - - Mischa I know one day I'll play in the majors, even if it's only for one day - Jeff Bannister, who would get one major league at-bat in his career and promptly got a hit. Bannister battled bone cancer and osteomyelitis and had 7 operations on his left leg and ankle as a teen ager *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:30:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: [MYSTARA] - WotI - --- Ed Paynter wrote: > I'm currently trying to play just prior to WotI, but > as I'm just the player, > I have no idea where it will lead or how involved > we'll get to be. > I'm also one of the poor few that do not have the > WotI set. Any suggestions > where to look? > If you're involved as a player, DON'T GET IT!!!! You'll ruin all the fun. It's a DM's reference (and a mighty fine one at that). There's not really anything for players unless you've made it to Immortality, in which case it has the revised rules for rolling up an Immortal level character. My advice is just sit back and enjoy the ride... ;~) auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:56:06 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? <> This is a sore mischaracterization of the discussion regarding the mantisfolk that has taken place on the MMB. For those who do not regularly check the board, I'd recommend looking there because, despite my initial reluctance, there have been some excellent ideas presented there. To quote a part of Bruce's intitial post, "I thought of a nasty foe for the Herathians. What if there were a Davanian nation just across the pond from Herath that was home for a race of nasty Thri-Kreens?" This, in my opinion, is phrased in such a way as to invite comments, and, since it was posted in a public forum, it has generated a great many responses. I did not initially respond because I've never read their description in the Monstrous Manual, and my knowledge of them is limited to old Gold Box computer games when I confused them with Ankhegs. The first response to Bruce's initial, very brief, post has since been removed from the board, but it politely pointed out the reluctance to add an AD&D monster "just because." While I believe that the arguments which followed unfortunately grew more heated then they should have, the reluctance to add monster without careful consideration and caution to make it uniquely Mystaran is a grave mistake, IMHO. As in most past arguments on the MML, I believe that the problem can largely be traced to the difficulties of an international list with many non-native speakers of English. Perhaps in some areas words like "bias" and "bigot" do not have the same negative connotation that they carry in the United States. At any rate, i think this has gone long enough, but I do feel that the "OD&D-Bigot" referred to above has been unfairly and overly-harshly criticized. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:01:26 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Irregardless? >Can't everybody just get over with it? Not to be too critical, but really, >haven't we all heard enough about bashing? I'd much rather hear about others >campaigns and ideas, than complaints about complaints about disagreeing >about somebodies personal campaign. SO, in the interest of subject-changing, >what does everyone think about the time period to campaign in? I absolutely agree that this thread has gone too far and it is time to take it to private e-mail unless something pertinent is going to be added. On the other hand, are you sure you're prepared for the fury that could come of your suggestion? A lot of people seem to take WotI pretty personally ;~) >I'm currently trying to play just prior to WotI, but as I'm just the player, >I have no idea where it will lead or how involved we'll get to be. >I'm also one of the poor few that do not have the WotI set. Any suggestions >where to look? I agree with Damon here--don't get it. Also, you will enjoy it most if you don't read other posts about WotI, since we're not very good about putting spoiler warnings on stuff. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:07:39 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Hey there and welcome back. Thibault probably gave you the best sites, but if you're at all interested in the Savage Coast, check out the downloadable stuff available at tsr.com. Some of it's really good. As for the Convention, are you planning on holding the third one in october again? I'd like to go to a convention with OD&D at some point, but I doubt I'll be able to in October. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #411 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #412 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 412 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry [MYSTARA] - Flamewars Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention [MYSTARA] - Mystara en français [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:20:41 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! <> Well, I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer it for myself anyway. Personally, I think the idea of virulent lycanthropy as the result of magical experiments that backfired is more unique and more uniquely Mystaran than guardians of nature somehow corrupted. There are innumberable different defenders of nature, and I think the idea of a recent introduction of lycanthropy not only makes more sense (as someone mentioned, lycanthropy would eventually wipe out humanity) but it also adds a great unique element to the setting. If i ever run M1, I plan to add some remnants of the old shapeshifting population somewhere in the old Alphatian homeplane. This doesn't necessarily limit lycanthropes to the post-landfall Mystara either. IMC one of the PCs to go back in time to save Quagmire was a Werewolf, and there's no reason that other lycanthropes couldn't have gone back even farther and introduced at least a little bit of lycanthropy. However, there needs to be a good explanation as to why the first massive outbreaks in Mystara were post-landfall, and I think that PC4 does a good job of explaining that. Out of curiousity, do other AD&D settings or other FRPGs explain why lycanthropy hasn't wiped humankind (directly or by demihuman purges) from the planet? Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:17:17 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Matt, Yazin, Welcome back to the MML. I'm sure you've found out obout our fabulously-talented map-makers by now, so I won't repeat the obvious. As to the Con, I'd love to come...but there's a BIG puddle of water between Tennessee and my home country (England), so I'll just have to be with you in spirit, I'm afraid! Carl (wishing he were in America even more...*sigh*) Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:17:13 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry In a message dated 22/09/99 18:45:00 GMT Daylight Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > I have been criticized abusively sometimes for contributing ideas to Mystara > because I introduced material in AD&D2 format. I even saw Bruce Heard, one > of the creators of Mystaran material at TSR, criticized because of his idea > to introduce the Thri-Kreen as the mortal enemy of the Herathians. They > criticized him for using a AD&D2 monster. Whoa just a minute. "They" did not criticize him; no faceless "they" exists here. A member of the MMB stated a (IMO quite mild) objection to introducing an AD&D monster to Mystara NOT precisely because it was AD&D, but because it was well entrenched in another milieu (Dark Sun, in this case) and did not, in its original form, sit well with Mystara (again, an opinion, but one I personally agree with). This was after the first posting; said posting generated a plethora of ideas for incorporating and adapting Mantids/Mantisfolk/MantiX/what-have-you into Mystara-creatures - one of the best round-robin efforts I have seen - and both the MMBer in question, AND the originator, input some excellent suggestions, even bouncing off each other. We all tend to agree that the idea now has considerable merit, so what's the problem? the MMB and the MML are all about sharing ideas positively, and that includes constructive criticism. > I really think this type of attitude has gone too far, and I do not welcome > foul or critical comments from people whom feel everything non-OD&D is > unacceptable. But aren't you being critical about those who prefer oD&D here? > There are wonderful ideas that can be apart of Mystara, and it does not > matter what rule system the ideas are presented in (GURPS, Vampire, AD&D2, OD& > D, D&D5, etc.). Ideas are Ideas. Monsters are Monsters. These things can > be described in any gaming rule system. I couldn't agree more. > It is really demoralizing to have your contribution criticized harshly > because they are not pure OD&D in their presentation. People may not want to > contribute any longer after having their imaginative ideas belittled and > ripped apart. Agreed. But for the most part, any crits have been constructive. That's how we learn, after all. > Personally, if I have an audience on a particular idea, and I get requests > to have an OD&D presentation, I will do so. I introduced the Selenii clan of > elves, and I did a OD&D write-up as well and also included some new spells as > well. I did this under the understanding and respect that there are indeed > OD&D players out there. However, I might not be so inclined to do something > like this if people bash my ideas. Your Selenii, and the rest of your creations, are fascinating and exciting, IMHO; please don't ever stop submitting them. But I'm curious; does the above mean that if someone points out something that could possibly be improved in one of your works, you won't consider it? > If I see my ideas based on the merit of being non-D&D, or someone else's > ideas bashed for not being OD&D, then I will likewise give them some of their > own medicine. I will not tolerate OD&D Bigotry. Bigotry of any kind is hateful. I can't stand it myself. There's room for both AD&D AND oD&D material for Mystara. Wouldn't you agree? Carl Q. PS as is stated elsewhere, this thread has pretty much run its course (don't want the Curse Of Leroy descending on us...;-), so if you'd like to reply, could you do it direct, on cquaif@aol.com? Thanks. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:03:33 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars PLEASE, folks! A good debate is always a good debate, but any flamewar is always a bad flamewar. Please do not take things personally. Please accept constructive critic. Please do not mail non-constructive critic on the list. Please learn some tolerance. Let all the flowers bloom. I can far too easily imagine a MML-meeting, where cold stares and muttered insults are the most popular ways of communication. Are we here to argue or to create Mystara? Are we here to exchange experiences on the world or argue whose experiences have been the best? Are we here to bicker on the details or to further the hobby? Prove you are adults you claimed to be; quit bickering. If someone posts something I don't like, I just think "blaah!" and hit delete. The idea I was presented exists no more in my life. It doesn't bother me at all! We are not creating an official unofficial Mystara here; we are developing our own campaigns by taking and sharing ideas and concepts. No-one uses all the material on the list, no-one accepts it. I just browse it and pick ideas, occasionally even the whole concepts. Every argument on the list weakens the Spirit of the game, the Spirit of Mystara and the collectivity of the list. After my fight with some of you (which was pointless, but which I probably would fight again) I lost some interest on the list; why give ideas to people I don't care, why take ideas from people whose judgement I must question? [I did not do this at my time as I was too involved in the argument.] Remember all of you. Every time you flame here, someone might get enough of it and leave. This INCLUDES the public mails from Admin. After my personal war I got some support mails from peaceful people who are very bored on the fights here and don't contribute anymore. Well, who am I to say; I don't contribute much anymore, either. Let's begin a campaign. In the next few mails you post, please add one thing in the end: ADD THE REASON WHY YOU ARE ON THE MYSTARA-L. - Markus, who wants to get new ideas to his campaign and exchange experiences with other Mystarans. P.S. And please one more thing. Please either build a statue to him or please quit worshipping a living person; even if he is the Great Maker of Gaz3 and whatever else. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Putting out a fire with gasoline ---------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:11:47 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention "fabulously-talented map-makers" hum thanks very much Carl. thib CQuaif@aol.com a écrit: > Matt, Yazin, > > Welcome back to the MML. I'm sure you've found out obout our > fabulously-talented map-makers by now, so I won't repeat the obvious. As to > the Con, I'd love to come...but there's a BIG puddle of water between > Tennessee and my home country (England), so I'll just have to be with you in > spirit, I'm afraid! > > Carl (wishing he were in America even more...*sigh*) Q. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:28:12 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars bien dit - 'oups' forget this. i think it could be parts of the 10 cmdt of the MML. Markus Olavi Montola a écrit: > PLEASE, folks! > > A good debate is always a good debate, but any flamewar is always a bad > flamewar. > > Please do not take things personally. Please accept constructive > critic. Please do not mail non-constructive critic on the list. Please > learn some tolerance. Let all the flowers bloom. > > I can far too easily imagine a MML-meeting, where cold stares and > muttered insults are the most popular ways of communication. > > Are we here to argue or to create Mystara? > Are we here to exchange experiences on the world or argue whose > experiences have been the best? > Are we here to bicker on the details or to further the hobby? > > Prove you are adults you claimed to be; quit bickering. > > If someone posts something I don't like, I just think "blaah!" and hit > delete. The idea I was presented exists no more in my life. It doesn't > bother me at all! We are not creating an official unofficial Mystara > here; we are developing our own campaigns by taking and sharing ideas and > concepts. No-one uses all the material on the list, no-one accepts it. I > just browse it and pick ideas, occasionally even the whole concepts. > > Every argument on the list weakens the Spirit of the game, the Spirit of > Mystara and the collectivity of the list. After my fight with some of you > (which was pointless, but which I probably would fight again) I lost some > interest on the list; why give ideas to people I don't care, why take > ideas from people whose judgement I must question? > > [I did not do this at my time as I was too involved in the argument.] > Remember all of you. Every time you flame here, someone might get enough > of it and leave. This INCLUDES the public mails from Admin. After my > personal war I got some support mails from peaceful people who are very > bored on the fights here and don't contribute anymore. > > Well, who am I to say; I don't contribute much anymore, either. > > Let's begin a campaign. In the next few mails you post, please add one > thing in the end: ADD THE REASON WHY YOU ARE ON THE MYSTARA-L. > > - Markus, who wants to get new ideas to his campaign and exchange > experiences with other Mystarans. > > P.S. And please one more thing. Please either build a statue to him > or please quit worshipping a living person; even if he is the > Great Maker of Gaz3 and whatever else. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Putting out a fire with gasoline > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:32 -0500 From: "The Rusty" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Mr. The Rusty, > Why do you like the idea that lycanthropy is from Alphatia? Do you have some insight on the matter that you would like to contribute to the discussion? > -- I'm sorry, Darknerd, I thought I already had. To me, it seems perfectly reasonable that Lycanthropy is an "alien disease" of magical origin that the Alphatians brought with them from their home dimension, and has spread through the world with them once they reached here. The Glantrians too, could have inadvertently spread such a thing. To me, I would think that if the Immortals had set out to make "Protectors of the forrest" or whatever, they would have gotten the job done right. But this is just my opinion. Your ideas were kind of interesting though, as it was something I had never really sat down and thought about before, though. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:48:07 -0500 From: "The Rusty" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Where in East Tennessee? I and my friends might be able to attend. I'm in the South Central part of the State. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:59:38 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism I am playing a 3rd party system that beats them all. But D&D will always be my first love, and yes, I do agree that D&D has certain um...traits, that make it better for Mystara than AD&D. Doesn't mean conversion can't happen, just that one must take care. I think the 3rd party system I use is more appropriate for Mystara even than D&D. *grins* - ----- Original Message ----- From: IronWolf To: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism > Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so are > twofold: > > 1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. OD&D is > something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the game > looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only one with > any) and generally do not have as much fun. > > 2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I made and > played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he worked > beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations and > multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. > > I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy it, play > it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what works best > for you. > > Adamantyr > > "It's Specularum, damn it!" > > Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > > > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should > > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to > > constructive criticism.<< [Håvard] > > > > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin was > > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't fit > > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How to > > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. > > > > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid.<< > > > > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should accept > > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this > > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or the > > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the > > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. > > > > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other > > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff > > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of > > resources which can be easily adapted.<< > > > > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not necessarily > > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about something > > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. The > > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. > > > > Bruce Heard > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:06:33 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Aren't they building a tunnel to connect us now? *grin* - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention > Matt, Yazin, > > Welcome back to the MML. I'm sure you've found out obout our > fabulously-talented map-makers by now, so I won't repeat the obvious. As to > the Con, I'd love to come...but there's a BIG puddle of water between > Tennessee and my home country (England), so I'll just have to be with you in > spirit, I'm afraid! > > Carl (wishing he were in America even more...*sigh*) Q. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:25:30 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara en français - --------------2A6C292DCE605B6B3810122A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some news, for everyones feel concerned, a Mystara list is now created in french only. We still stay connected with Original MML, and of course if something interest us, we will talk about around both in french and in english pour ceux qui se sentent concerné: voici l'adresse de la messagerie Mystara en français. (Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez Thibault) mystara@com.bi mml pour les french mml frenchy - --------------2A6C292DCE605B6B3810122A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some news, for everyones feel concerned, a Mystara list is now created in french only.
We still stay connected with Original MML, and of course if something interest us, we will talk about around both in french and in english
pour ceux qui se sentent concerné:
voici l'adresse de la messagerie Mystara en français.
(Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez Thibault)
mystara@com.bi
mml pour les french mml frenchy <mystara_french@listbot.com>
 
  - --------------2A6C292DCE605B6B3810122A-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:28:45 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys hello all. i took upon myself to create a french mailing list dedicated to mystara. It has nothing to do with the recent arguments (i don't give a damn about them i just delete them). My point was to allow those of us who share the same passion as us for Mystara but who are blocked by the language barrier. As for me , i will keep on sharing stuff with all of you. To register to the list go to my site and you will find the form at the bottom of the index. I hope that it will act as a complement of the mml and not as a competitor. If some posts on the mystara_french list are worth sharing then i will post them (once translated ) to the mml. the adress to send messages to this list is mystara_french@listbot.com. And as someone asked why i joined the mml, i answer: i don't play d&d anymore, because my old players are all gone living their lives. But i am so keen on Mystara that i wanted to be a part of its combat to stay alive. I like speaking english (or at least trying to), and i wanted to contribute. So as english is not my mother tongue i decided to make maps (and i do love maps , just like Bilbo ). I am amazed to see the creativity of some members and sometime i envy them. But i keep doing my maps.I found friendship on the mml, and that's more than i wished at first. thib. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:53:12 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism What is the 3rd party system?? Just curious. - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:59:38 jdaly wrote: >I am playing a 3rd party system that beats them all. But D&D will always be >my first love, and yes, I do agree that D&D has certain um...traits, that >make it better for Mystara than AD&D. Doesn't mean conversion can't happen, >just that one must take care. > >I think the 3rd party system I use is more appropriate for Mystara even than >D&D. > >*grins* > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: IronWolf >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:15 PM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism > > >> Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so >are >> twofold: >> >> 1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. OD&D >is >> something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the >game >> looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only one >with >> any) and generally do not have as much fun. >> >> 2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I made >and >> played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he worked >> beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations and >> multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. >> >> I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy it, >play >> it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what >works best >> for you. >> >> Adamantyr >> >> "It's Specularum, damn it!" >> >> Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >> >> > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard >should >> > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to >> > constructive criticism.<< [H?ard] >> > >> > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin >was >> > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't >fit >> > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How >to >> > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. >> > >> > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is >valid.<< >> > >> > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should >accept >> > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this >> > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or >the >> > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the >> > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. >> > >> > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the >other >> > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff >> > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great >range of >> > resources which can be easily adapted.<< >> > >> > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not >necessarily >> > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about >something >> > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. >The >> > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. >> > >> > Bruce Heard >> > >*************************************************************************** >> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:08:47 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars Ohh, well, sorry i kinda started this whole thing, i was really pissed about seeing the kind of blind followers that there are in every sort of organized group. I am not an adult, and never claimed to be however, but that isn't the point. When I see something such as the Selenii Clan, of which i am a member, get rejected, slammed, or ignored just because it's not an original "artifact" from gygax and the rest, that discourages me from roleplay. Opinions to a specific person should be sent to that person only, and opinions to a specific subject should be addressed on the MML, or the MMB. The reason i joined the MML, is because there are hardly any Mystara resources out there, and i hoped this would be one . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:04:41 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! For lycanthrophy development, I like to have some rich background. There is little information available on Alphatia (before the civil war), and there is no information about lycanthropes from Alphatia except PC4. I feel that just targeting Alphatians is an easy explanation, with no real thought or development put into the matter. It is an easy way to patch lycanthropes into Mystara without having imaginitive background for lycanthropes. I do not wish to offend the authors of the material (which overall I think is excellent stuff), but for this one matter, I feel that it is poorly thought out, and is a quick and easy dirty fix. If anyone's peeped outside of Mystara and OD&D/AD&D in general, they will realize that there are several rich resources on Werewolves and lycanthropes for RPG and fantasy novels. These wonderful materials make OD&D lycanthropes look a little bland (as they are just a Alphatian thing anyhow). I continue on the lines of my ideas, and if anyone has some good suggestions about lycanthropes of Alphatia before Landfall, I would be eager to read. Ideas on Alphatians before Lanfall would be interesting as well. For example, did Alphatians have druids? Or were they all Magic users? Were there elemental priests? Maybe the Alphatians worhiped Elmental Immortals of different philosphies? Maybe they didn't worship. If there were nature priests, did they have they worship a new element of Nature or just a combined elements like in DarkSun. Maybe Alphatia was rich in nature and the elments. Maybe they have fairies in their world as well? There's so much we don't know. - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:32 The Rusty wrote: > Mr. The Rusty, >> Why do you like the idea that lycanthropy is from Alphatia? Do you have >some insight on the matter that you would like to contribute to the >discussion? >> -- > I'm sorry, Darknerd, I thought I already had. To me, it seems perfectly >reasonable that Lycanthropy is an "alien disease" of magical origin that the >Alphatians brought with them from their home dimension, and has spread >through the world with them once they reached here. The Glantrians too, >could have inadvertently spread such a thing. To me, I would think that >if the Immortals had set out to make "Protectors of the forrest" or >whatever, they would have gotten the job done right. But this is just my >opinion. Your ideas were kind of interesting though, as it was something I >had never really sat down and thought about before, though. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #412 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #413 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Wednesday, September 22 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 413 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Ogre Steps In Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Question!! (was: Bigotry vs. Criticism) Iron Wolf's Campaign (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism) [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Ogre Steps In Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:12:25 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! >Out of curiousity, do other AD&D settings or other FRPGs explain why >lycanthropy hasn't wiped humankind (directly or by demihuman purges) from >the planet? None of the other settings, exception of Ravenloft, explain this or go into detail about lycanthropy except provide monsterous statistics so players can have something to slay. But then again I don't play other AD&D FRPGs, only Mystara!!! In Ravenloft, I lycanthropy can spread into demi-humans as well. I think that the twisted plane somehow controls lycanthropy so that people remain terrorized. I also feel that there are always bigger and badder hideous secrets that will whipe out lycanthropes, as these secret persons wish to be the sole person to terrorize its subjects. In non-AD&D FRGPs they do have good explainations. The most popular will probaly be Werewolf from WhiteWolf. There WildWest version also looks inticing as there would be possible ideas for a Savage Coast tie-in. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:17:16 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! >and I think that PC4 does a good >job of explaining that. This is where I'll politely disagree. I don't think it does a good job, because there is no description of lycanthropes of Alphatia pre-LandFall. I thought of three creators of lycanthropes (possibly all three sources can be used): 1. The PC4 canon explanation of Alphatian wizards did it! 2. Early creations by priests of Immortals tied to the Sphere of Entropy. Similar to RW cultures. 3. Later creations by Gaia or Terra as a creation of warriors of nature. Some of her children were corrupted by Immortals from the Sphere of Entropy. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:20:22 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities Kit Navarro here. Reason for being here: - --I want to feel that Mystara is alive and well - --I want to know what's going to happen next in Mystara - --I need material for an Oriental campaign - --I need to know, does Princess Dolores put one lump or two in her tea? And what does she put in them crumpets. Let me share my experience with one very fun, albeit short-lived campaign: a chronomancy campaign. I started a Chronomancy campaign in Mystara. The 3 PCs were a Boldovian chronomancer, an Ylari cleric of Protius, a Karameikan bard (with some ties with Dian de Moriamis, giving him chronomantic devices), and I added 2 NPCs to the party: a mysterious rumor-mongering elven oracle/diviner a not-so-malevolent undead lich historian from Alphatia. Then, I did a radical thing, I opened the DM books to the PCs. At that time, the party was in Glantri, so I let them read as much as they wanted about Glantri, secrets about Dolores, the Radiance and all! (Not that they didn't know much already, they were are DMs themselves.) Then what I did was pull the rug from under them! While they were enjoying the Chronomancer powers, I changed the Mystara reality, or at least some of it. When the got back to the Prime one time, Glantri was a magophobic theocracy ("The Patriarchies of Caventry"). Though they avoided being burned as a witch by Prince Santiago de Maldequiz, Patriarch of Rafiel in the Patriarchy of Maldequiz, they got out of the Prime quickly and regrouped. (Awww! They didn't even get to have tea with Princess Dorothy Hillsbury, Matriarch of Tarastia!) The next time they came back to Glantri, it seemed like the old Glantri, exept Nouvelle Averoigne was ruled by an eccentric family of wizards called the d'Amaranthes.... Well, the campaign ended there, unfortunately. But I did have a couple more alternate realities for them to jump into, much like the "Sliders" TV show. In one reality, the Princes of Glantri would have been revealed as all dragons in human guise, no doubt affected by the "Dragonlord of Mystara" series (Etienne=gold, Jaggar=white, Julianna=red). In another, I was planning to make Glantri into an group of oriental nations (kinda like a wizardly Ochalea), and I had plans in making Princess Dolores, the good guy for once! My point: I totally played around with continuity, threw away all the Mystara bibles, broke all the rules, and had lots of fun doing it. I hope the rest of you guys in the MML can have the same fun. Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:20:30 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Lycantrhopes from Alphatia? Insane! <> While I admit that I'm not up to detailing pre-war Alphatia, I personally think such a setting would be a great setting for your idea of a nature-immortal creating forest guardians. Perhaps it wasn't even an entropic immortal who tampered, but the Alphatians themselves... "Pshaw! What do those immortals know? We mages can certainly do better...." Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:58:31 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Ogre Steps In I love Mystara. You may not be able to tell from how often I participate on the list, but it is one of my favorite settings. I also love the MML. As most of you know, I started it, and have been running it for over four years now. But lately, every once in a while, I want to just leave the list behind, give adminship over to someone else, and leave the work to someone else. Because it is work. Trust me. If it isn't error messages filling my mail box, it's breaking up flame wars or having to stand my ground on not letting people use profanity on the list because they feel it is their right. Or a multitude of other things. If I left I know a few people that would probably be happy to see me leave. But then I stop and think about how many people out there have written me in support of what I do and the decisions I have made. It seems after every incident that I have to put my foot down and be the List Ogre, I wonder if I did the right thing, if I handled it correctly. Then the mail comes in, and I feel better about it all. When I laid down the law on the profanity, the amount of support mail was surprising, which helped a lot. Other than the occasional pot-shot at me (such as in a recent e-mail on the list), it seems most people have little problem with how I run things. Why am I telling you this? Well, this latest round of nonsense has left me with the idea that I do not watch some threads closely enough, and that perhaps I need to be a wee bit more strict in how I take care of things. Not to the level I see on some lists, but enough to end problems while still blossoming. Will it work? Will I piss people off? I guess we will find out... As of right now the threads on cannon vs. non-cannon, AD&D vs. D&D, different Mystara gamer types and other related debates/flamewars will end. Even if you have something you feel you just _need_ to say, don't say it. Even if you feel it is really constructive and not a flame, keep it to your self. It is not that everything that has been said is a flame - much of it wasn't, and some of it was well spoken. It is just that it isn't going to acheive anything. Intelligent, well spoken things were said the last _three_ times we had this debate, so it is obvious intelligent well spoken arguements do no good. From now on, if you have any comment whatsover that negatively _criticizes_ something for being non-canonical, non-OD&D, or non-Mystara-feeling, write it on a piece of paper and stick it in your scrapbook. Don't post it here. I emphasize "criticize" because pointing out something that someone might have missed isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you feel the need to state a preference for any one game system, feel free, as long as it somehow has some Mystara relevance. If you feel the need to comment negatively on another game system, keep it to yourself. It has nothing to do with Mystara. Realize that there are comments that achieve nothing other than pissing people off, without helping in any way. It seems to me people should be able to tell the difference, but this isn't often the case. If you can't tell, you will now be informed by me, should I catch them. Make them often enough and you will be warned. Read the FAQ. Read it again. It can be found at... http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/mmlfaq.html That is the straight address. No frames, no navigating, and thus no excuses. After I write this I am going to be away from the net until later tonight. At that point I am going to look over the posts and determine if I need to send out a reminder to end it all. Then starting fresh and early tomorrow morning, I am going to be paying close watch on things, and handing out warnings like candy, should I need to. Anyone breaking the rules outlined above or in the FAQ is going to get a personal e-mail from me. And I am going to start keeping track of warnings as well. To some this may all sound pretty harsh. And possibly a bit fascist. But, please be assured that this is not necessarily a step towards an overtly admin dominated and controlled list. It is simply me making an attempt at ending threads or posts that achieve nothing other than inciting flamewars or making others mad. Will it work? I guess we will see. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net ICQ #20039817 "You know, not kneeing you in the groin is a constant struggle." MST3K *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:52:21 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry > I have been criticized abusively sometimes for contributing ideas to Mystara because I introduced > material in AD&D2 format. I even saw Bruce Heard, one of the creators of Mystaran material at > TSR, criticized because of his idea to introduce the Thri-Kreen as the mortal enemy of the > Herathians. They criticized him for using a AD&D2 monster. They criticized Bruce because he dropped the thri-keen in. Thri-keen is a monster from the Dark Sun world, for those who don't know, and really shouldn't be dumped on Mystara without a reason. Some members of the MMB jumped on bruce for that, and we all fleshed out what the Mystaran "Mantis-folk" would be. Thus we got a thri-keen-like society, but with a Mystaran, NOT Athasian theme. > There are wonderful ideas that can be apart of Mystara, and it does not matter what rule system the ideas are presented in (GURPS, Vampire, AD&D2, OD&D, D&D5, etc.). Ideas are Ideas. Monsters are Monsters. These things can be described in any gaming rule system. You're missing the point of Mystara. On Mystara, we have societies, not lone monsters. You can't find a "random" orc in the Broken Lands, or a "random" gnoll tribe in Karameikos. Everything is VERY well ordered, and since OD&D allows beast-PCs, you have to have well-developed societies for all manner of humanoids/monsters!! > It is really demoralizing to have your contribution criticized harshly because they are not pure OD&D in their presentation. People may not want to contribute any longer after having their imaginative ideas belittled and ripped apart. That's NOT true. There are lots of people who present ideas in AD&D2. But Mystara, by it's design, is an OD&D world. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:03:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) - --- CQuaif@aol.com wrote: > As to > the Con, I'd love to come...but there's a BIG puddle > of water between > Tennessee and my home country (England), so I'll > just have to be with you in > spirit, I'm afraid! > Even though I'm here in the States, Tennessee is a *long* way from the West Coast. So, as much as I would love to check it out, I must send my regards as well. The reason I bring this up, however, is to toss an idea out that I've been toying with. What does everyone think of the idea of trying to organize some mini-cons, maybe on a regional level? Keep in mind, this idea is very embryonic but I initially envisioned maybe folks getting together in various areas on a semi-formal basis. I'm not talking about anything rivaling the established cons - more just a way for some of us Mystara-philes to get together for a weekend and have a few game sessions, discussion panels, and *gasp* actual face to face conversations. This is just food for thought but here's some examples of different regional groupings: North America as follows - Northwest, Southwest, Midwest, Northeast, Southeast. Maybe one or two in Europe, another in Australia, one in South America. Like I said I'm just tossing ideas out here... Anyway, what do you folks think? auf wiedersehen, Damon PS In light of recent tensions(which seem to thankfully be resolved), this might be a nice way for us all to build some bridges... ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:06:22 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Question!! (was: Bigotry vs. Criticism) > With Kits, race/class combinations and > multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. So many options, so many things that are so complex. Why is it that AD&D has to be so darn complex?? I just played a friendly game of AD&D (one-shot Desert of Desolation-based adventure) recently. I don't really like AD&D, as most people here know, but hey, it's my favorite module. Ok, so anyway, we had so much to choose from in character creation. Players handbooks/Rules options, etc. It takes me about 10 minutes to roll up a character in OD&D. It took slightly longer (about 1/2 hr) in AD&D. No biggie, I can deal with that. During the adventure, we had about 3 elf multi-classes, a human mage, and a tinker gnome (me). Every battle those crazy elves pulled out another bonus, and the DM went scrambling for rules clarification through like 3 books. Oi. It's bad enough my little gnome was rather useless, I don't have all those cool spells/theif abilities etc. My DM shot down an AD&D translation of a Serrainian Gnome, so I was stuck being a dumb short guy with a bag of toys that blow me up.. Anyway, my point is for all the AD&D people out there, if you allow your characters all these "options" how do you keep them all straight? When I DM OD&D games I have a problem remembering everything, and I have the RC right in front of me. With AD&D it just gets exponentially harder IMHO. Ethan - I had fun though. Even when I got dropped from the top of the pyramid. 20d6 damage.. yum :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:15:09 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Iron Wolf's Campaign (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism) Great. I utilize AD&D2 for my Mystara campaigns for many reasons. However, I do keep in line with some concepts. I don't allow every multi-class combination available without restrictions. Typically elves can ONLY be fighter/mage, mage, or fighter. If there are other roles, that are not normally allowed in OD&D, then I define kits to explain their exisistance. For example, I have the Selenii, which are not typically the fighter/mage of OD&D. They are more like thief/mage. I allow people to be thief/mage, but to perserve continuity, I have an explanation for the existance of such a combination and a rich background. If you create any interesting Mystara-only kits, it would be interesting to see the works. ciao, Joaquin - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:15:02 IronWolf wrote: >Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so are >twofold: > >1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. OD&D is >something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the game >looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only one with >any) and generally do not have as much fun. > >2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I made and >played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he worked >beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations and >multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. > >I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy it, play >it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what works best >for you. > >Adamantyr > >"It's Specularum, damn it!" > >Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >> >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should >> be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to >> constructive criticism.<> >> I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin was >> trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't fit >> one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How to >> make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. >> >> >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid.<< >> >> ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should accept >> this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this >> mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or the >> MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the >> sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. >> >> >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other >> AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff >> especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of >> resources which can be easily adapted.<< >> >> Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not necessarily >> mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about something >> like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. The >> point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. >> >> Bruce Heard >> *************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:29:40 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County This is my idea. I see the Vyalians have a mutual agreement with the Emperor. The Emperor gave the Vyalians an official status to recognize them for more favorable relations. The Vyalians in turn enjoy an autonomy. They will not ally themselves, nor trade with an known enemy, and they will not do anything to undermine the Empire of Thyatis. Beyond this, the Vyalians are not expected to do anything for the Emperor or Thyatis. If they were told to kill, which is against their moral code, for humans, they would not choose to do so. If they were to sacrifice themselves, they would not choose to do so either. If Thyatis invaded Vyalian (because they didn't obey the Emperor), they would defend themselves valiantly. Thyatis could win with sheer numbers of troops, but the losses on the Thyatian side, would be gortesque. The Vyalians would rather die defending themselves rather than kill for humans, or risk their lives for human matters. Both sides have this understanding, and both sides do not press the issue to avoid uneeded confrontation. The Vyalians do however patrol the forests and trade with humans. This increases the economy of Thyatis in general. It also allows Thyatis to retain less troops to patrol and guard Thyatis, and the Vyalians will do this for Thyatis. These valuable troops can be re-deployed elsewhere. I think this is sensible. Do people still think the Vyalians would kill/sacrifice their lives for human affairs? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:41:42 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Remember after the success of TSR, how there were all sorts of piddly little games that came out on the heels? Ysgarth, 3rd edition, was a bright spot in an entire league of copycats. I swear, this game has it all. Unfortunately, it is also out of print. Ysgarth as a system, is going to be put out in 7th edition, but it is now a hopeless copy of GURPS. It tries too hard to be other systems, when it had a beautiful system to begin with. The nice part is, I don't spend any money on rules systems anymore, since our hybrid Ysgarth campaign is perfect. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism > What is the 3rd party system?? Just curious. > -- > > On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:59:38 jdaly wrote: > >I am playing a 3rd party system that beats them all. But D&D will always be > >my first love, and yes, I do agree that D&D has certain um...traits, that > >make it better for Mystara than AD&D. Doesn't mean conversion can't happen, > >just that one must take care. > > > >I think the 3rd party system I use is more appropriate for Mystara even than > >D&D. > > > >*grins* > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: IronWolf > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:15 PM > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism > > > > > >> Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so > >are > >> twofold: > >> > >> 1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. OD&D > >is > >> something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the > >game > >> looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only one > >with > >> any) and generally do not have as much fun. > >> > >> 2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I made > >and > >> played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he worked > >> beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations and > >> multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. > >> > >> I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy it, > >play > >> it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what > >works best > >> for you. > >> > >> Adamantyr > >> > >> "It's Specularum, damn it!" > >> > >> Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard > >should > >> > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to > >> > constructive criticism.<< [H?ard] > >> > > >> > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin > >was > >> > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't > >fit > >> > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How > >to > >> > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. > >> > > >> > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is > >valid.<< > >> > > >> > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should > >accept > >> > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this > >> > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or > >the > >> > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the > >> > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. > >> > > >> > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the > >other > >> > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff > >> > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great > >range of > >> > resources which can be easily adapted.<< > >> > > >> > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not > >necessarily > >> > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about > >something > >> > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. > >The > >> > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. > >> > > >> > Bruce Heard > >> > > >*************************************************************************** > >> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >> > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >> > >> > >*************************************************************************** > >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > >*************************************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:50:03 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The List Ogre Steps In Listen Leroy...how much do you get paid? That much eh? Count me as the first to support you on this (unless someone else has already, in which case, "count me as the next"). As far as I am concerned, feel free to step on my insensitive noggin if I ever say anything that is inappropriate. We all need to think about how our posts affect the rich elitist Leroy, making his millions from our paid list subscriptions. After all, every time we have a flamewar erupt, it takes that much time away from his jaccuzzi, and lovely wife, and margerita. Not to mention all the high publicity charity work he puts in, giving an ample amount of the money we send him to the little starving children in Ethiopia... I'm so tempted to send this off without a sarcasm warning...but I better not. See, I'm really trying to make the point that Leroy, for all his ogrishness, is a great guy. He is putting lots of volunteer hours in...and as much as any of us get stressed about flames...his stress is 10 times worse. We need to be very careful what we bring to the forum. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:52:49 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County I think you ideas are fine, if you feel that way about elves. But yes, I do believe elves would fight and die in wars. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:29 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County > This is my idea. I see the Vyalians have a mutual agreement with the Emperor. The Emperor gave the Vyalians an official status to recognize them for more favorable relations. The Vyalians in turn enjoy an autonomy. They will not ally themselves, nor trade with an known enemy, and they will not do anything to undermine the Empire of Thyatis. > > Beyond this, the Vyalians are not expected to do anything for the Emperor or Thyatis. If they were told to kill, which is against their moral code, for humans, they would not choose to do so. If they were to sacrifice themselves, they would not choose to do so either. If Thyatis invaded Vyalian (because they didn't obey the Emperor), they would defend themselves valiantly. Thyatis could win with sheer numbers of troops, but the losses on the Thyatian side, would be gortesque. The Vyalians would rather die defending themselves rather than kill for humans, or risk their lives for human matters. > > Both sides have this understanding, and both sides do not press the issue to avoid uneeded confrontation. > > The Vyalians do however patrol the forests and trade with humans. This increases the economy of Thyatis in general. It also allows Thyatis to retain less troops to patrol and guard Thyatis, and the Vyalians will do this for Thyatis. These valuable troops can be re-deployed elsewhere. > > I think this is sensible. Do people still think the Vyalians would kill/sacrifice their lives for human affairs? > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #413 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. From: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com (mystara-digest) To: mystara-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: mystara-digest V1999 #414 Reply-To: mystara@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk mystara-digest Thursday, September 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 414 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars [MYSTARA] - Conventions! (and perhaps a light in this infinite tunnel...) Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient [MYSTARA] - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BMYSTARA=5D_-_Mystara_en_fran=E7ais?= Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? MAfrica (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:37:07 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities WOOHOO! that's what i'm talking about! first, you played around with chronomancy, which is always fun, then you altered the "known" perception of a country and it's politics, which is always encouraged. As long as you have some sort of continuity within your campaign, (e.g. Glantri doesn't start having Blackmoorish weapons powered by elven urine or something one day, and then be back to throwing sticks and rocks the next), then kudos to you and your campaign! Hope you have fun! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ps. Does anyone have any tips for PBEM campaigns? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:52:54 -0500 From: "Jeff & Lauri Fox" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Flamewars >Let's begin a campaign. In the next few mails you post, please add one >thing in the end: ADD THE REASON WHY YOU ARE ON THE MYSTARA-L. OK I don't post much, But this is really starting to annoy me. So, here goes. PLEASE, stop this drivel!!!!! I am here to absorb new ideas into my Mystara world. It is currently in hyatis, but I have plans to start a campaign soon. And you have all been very, very helpful. Jeff & Laurie Fox Great Plains RPGA Regional Directors BransCon IV Coordinators GAM President & Vice-president All-around fun folks fror@gte.net (417)561-2030 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:25:10 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Conventions! (and perhaps a light in this infinite tunnel...) Yes! Great idea. What if we asked area conventions for a room when they are planning theirs. In my area, northeastern U.S., there is a large convention called Total Confusion that I go to anyway. We could use this as a meeting-place for the mini-Mystara New England convention, and model others after similar concepts. This way, we wouldn't be making ridiculously extravagant plans (yes, I know... nothing too good for Mystara and her minions) and spending excessively large quantities of cash. Besides, I would expect that local conventions nationwide are waning and could use the insurgence of a setting-specific portion to help bolster their popularity or, at the very least, give those who already go to the conventions a little bit more reason to keep coming back. We can survive without a pool of players to draw from (what little we do), but it is (was?) far easier to continue to grow with new blood. While I'm on the topic of drawing new players, there is no reason why the Net-Almanac or that obscure "Estlor's Mystara NetBook" (if anyone ever formats the tables in it!) can't be used as the basic book of the setting. Couple either of those titles with Thibault's INCREDIBLE maps and we've got ourselves the rough equivalent of a "setting starter set." Yes, I know that the reason why Mystara succeded in the first place was the gradual, piece-by-piece assembly of setting bits into an eventual massive entirety. But new players of today don't have the luxury of the 100+ books necessary to fully glorify Mystara in the breadth and depth which it ought to be imparted. If we concede this one sacrifice and promote the setting out of a collosal single tome while advertising by conducting seminars, sessions, etc. at conventions, there just might be a snowball's chance in hell that we could rejuvinate Mystara. To the Sphere of Entropy with TSR! We don't need them! This setting is alive today only because of our persistence. Can we branch out? WE ARE POISED TO "SELL" A PRODUCT WHICH IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY OF THE 99% FECULENCE WHICH TSR HAS ISSUED SINCE MYSTARA! PEOPLE BUY WHAT IS BEST! WE, THROUGH A QUALITY PRODUCT AND ENJOYABLE PROMOTION, CAN SALVAGE MYSTARA AND STOP KOW-TOWING TO TSR ALL IN ONE EPIC BLOW! And now, I'll step off of my pulpit. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:58:08 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County as an elf, we would fight and die in wars for elven kind, for the fey, and against the unseelie. any other war is not worth fighting for us. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:01:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Francisco Navarro wrote: > > After reading through some of the M-Orient material > > (which has great potential), I decided to share some > > unorganized, random thoughts on the matter. > > OK, let me share my thought (and replies to Shane's thoughts) in an > organized matter: > > 1. MOrient and Skothar: A BIG PLACE!!! > > I've looked at my world map in the Rules Cyclopedia and Skothar IS a big > place. I think the MOrient Project team should size down the MOrient > countries. We can fit the M-Africans in the southern Tangor regions, the > Jennites to the west, and there will still be a big space for the MOrientals > in the north and east. And also we should leave quite a bit undeveloped. We don't need to parcel out every space of land to someone. > 2. MOrient and RWOrient Countries: 1 is to 1? > > IMO, I don't think we have to have a 1 to 1 ratio of RW and MOriental > countries. I agree. I think this makes more sense in the HW, but even there many are composites. > The only risk is that MOrient nations becoming hodge-podge like Kara-Tur... What's Kara-Tur? > 4. Fantasy MOrient (and MAfrican) lands > > Sure! Whimsical, fantasic, legendary, dream lands found in RWOriental and > RWAfrican cultures... What we are in fantasy-role-playing for? I third this notion! > 6. Ochalea and MChina > > This I will write separately about. I've got more than 2 tengs to say about > this. (Let's just say for the meantime, I don't think we need an MChina when > we've got Ochalea...) Again, I agree. What if the two handle different eras of Chinese history or highlight different aspects of Chinese culture though? We have more than one "Roman" society and more than one "Greek" one and several "Viking" ones. Covering similar things from different angles never hurt anyone. - - Mischa It's...stupid to dislike someone simply because of the color of their skin, just like it's stupid to like someone simply because of their skin color -- Charles Barkley *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient > map of the M-Orient). If you could have a planetary > map showing national boundaries, you'd find that, for > example, M-Myanmar, M-Thailand, and M-Indochina are > each going to be as large as the *entire* Known World! If they're not heavily developed, I am not *as* concerned. I like the idea of relatively similar nations in terms of power though, with some exceptions (ex. Thyatis now, Thonia 4000 years ago). > two similar cultures. As far as the M-Africans go, I > really don't think the one M-East African/Swahili > nation of Yavdlom is representative of the vast > diversity of RW African culture While I am fairly ignorant of African history and society, I definitely agree. Much of the continent has been overlooked in RPG systems - then again, so have many oceanic peoples and some Eurasian ones (the Jennites are the only example I've ever seen of a Scythian culture) - there's plenty of room for expansion. Is any Western African culture represented on Mystara? > together). Random note: for those not following the > MMB, Sharon has a M-Bushman doglike race coming for > the Hollow Moon. How about Asian and African versions > of demihuman and humanoid nations? I have to really check out the HM stuff in detail one of these days. Great idea obviously, Shane. > Is there an > explanation as to why M-Asia won't be as "mixed-up" as > the Known World (which isn't really a M-Europe), with > its Norse, Arab, Balkan, Byzantine, German, Italian, > Hawaiian, and Indian cultures side-by-side, or the > Savage Coast's Balkan, Ottoman, Latino, French, > Elizabethan, Australian, and Mesopotamian cultures? Or the HW, with Egyptians, Scythians, Zulus and Greeks all lined up next to one another, or numerous demihuman-human intersections (Antalian-Icevale-Beastmen, Schattenalfen-Azcan). I don't like the idea of solid blocks of an M-Asia or M-whatever either. > melting pot. Another suggestion is, instead of just M- > versions of RW-Asian countries, how about independent > M-equivalents of realms which only existed in Asian > (and African) folktales and fairytales? Again, cool idea. > Perhaps, we're > taking things a bit too fast, as the KW took 15 years > to develop, so we shouldn't feel the need to try to > fill up *all* of Mystara's blank spaces at one time, > necessarily (this could apply to the Davania project > too). Yep. We've been working ?4? years and have many more to go. I mean, the Cynidicea project itself has been going on for years IIRC :) > I mean, since TSR's most-likely *not* going to > make new material for Mystara anytime soon (though I > hope for a CD Atlas and CD Archive), we probably > therefore have *decades* to fill out Mystara, so IMO > we have plenty of time to make things just right. Or offer alternative versions. We don't need one net-canon interpretation for each area. > boundaries so that there's room enough for a M-Africa > on the Tangor Peninsula (assuming it's not being > covered by the Davania team) This is the ideal locale for an M-African culture IMO, as it is the ancestral homeland for Mystaran black humans. What about M-Mesoamericans? Are the Atraughins the sole surviving descendants of the Azcans? > being. I know it's kinda jerky to critique something I > haven't helped with, but since we were on the topic, I > wanted to bring these issues up. I would hope the M-Asia folks can take criticism, and alternative ideas, especially as you don't try to make major changes with their work. - - Mischa You never win if you can't play it straight You only beat me if you get me to hate - -- Billy Joel, "Great Wall of China" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:00:59 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >I posted a quick note on the MMB that this has again come up for discussion >on the MML, and I posted a link to your map--I hope you don't mind (if you >do, I can take it out still, let me know) > I really don't, in fact, I'm honoured and also glad that you found this map useful. Thanks! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:01:02 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >After reading through some of the M-Orient material >(which has great potential), I decided to share some >unorganized, random thoughts on the matter. One thing >that I'm really not so sure about, is the fact that >the Skothar countries will be humongous compared to >Known World and Savage Coast nations (see >http://chat.carleton.ca/~jduncan2/morient.html for a >map of the M-Orient). [Snip] This is a good point indeed, and it would be well-worth to discuss it if the M-Orient team is ever to be revived! It would also leave much more space for M-African cultures. Also, we have to keep in mind that all the M-Orient setting was at an embryonic stage of development and that all the work done there was mainly propositions, which needed some further work. > I think the concerns about having two M-Chinas >is valid, as I think Ochalea seems meagre mainly >because it hasn't been filled out enough -- I saw a >provincial map of Ochalea somewhere on the web, and >the place-names really inspired me, and captured the >feel of Wuxia (the Chinese equivalent of "sword & >sorcery"). Christian's point about Ochalea being >subservient to Alphatia and Thyatis is valid [though >isn't Ochalea finally independent after WotI? if so, >couldn't we turn this into a grand national awakening >equivalent to China's throwing off of centuries of >foreign (Manchu, and earlier, Mongol) rule in 1911?], Grand national awakening! Well, ask the warlords ;-) >but if both are kept, Francisco's suggestion to make >them M-Chinas of two different Chinese eras is good, >or at least have some explanation as to why there are >two similar cultures. Would be my guess too, I would see the Ochaleans a technologicaly and magicaly more advanced than their Skothar cousins (like the Ming versus the Han). It might be interesting to see how both people would react if they ever are to meet! As for the rest of the post, I think that we would need to discuss all of this in some kind of revived M-Orient team. Anyone interested? I hope that most of the first team's members are still interested by the project! Christian "Krieg!" Constantin >As far as the M-Africans go, I >really don't think the one M-East African/Swahili >nation of Yavdlom is representative of the vast >diversity of RW African culture (as many languages are >spoken in RW Africa as in the rest of the world put >together). Random note: for those not following the >MMB, Sharon has a M-Bushman doglike race coming for >the Hollow Moon. How about Asian and African versions >of demihuman and humanoid nations? Is there an >explanation as to why M-Asia won't be as "mixed-up" as >the Known World (which isn't really a M-Europe), with >its Norse, Arab, Balkan, Byzantine, German, Italian, >Hawaiian, and Indian cultures side-by-side, or the >Savage Coast's Balkan, Ottoman, Latino, French, >Elizabethan, Australian, and Mesopotamian cultures? >I'd hope, even though a region may have a general >cultural theme, that the newly described regions were >as mixed up and diverse as, and would have similar >country-sizes as, the Known World and Savage Coast. I >think any M-Orient should differ from the FR-Orient >(Kara-Tur) in the same way that the M-Occident differs >from the FR-Occident -- namely, that compared to Toril >and Oerth, Mystara is a sorta zany tongue-in-cheek >melting pot. Another suggestion is, instead of just M- >versions of RW-Asian countries, how about independent >M-equivalents of realms which only existed in Asian >(and African) folktales and fairytales? Perhaps, we're >taking things a bit too fast, as the KW took 15 years >to develop, so we shouldn't feel the need to try to >fill up *all* of Mystara's blank spaces at one time, >necessarily (this could apply to the Davania project >too). I mean, since TSR's most-likely *not* going to >make new material for Mystara anytime soon (though I >hope for a CD Atlas and CD Archive), we probably >therefore have *decades* to fill out Mystara, so IMO >we have plenty of time to make things just right. I >know this may cause the M-Orient team to cringe, since >they have already laid the foundation, but how about >keeping the existing country names (eg. "Chung-Eun") >and details, but shrinking M-Asia and reworking the >boundaries so that there's room enough for a M-Africa >on the Tangor Peninsula (assuming it's not being >covered by the Davania team), shrinking the >country-sizes to KW/SC size (though some may be as >large as Thyatis, and a sparsely populated area [such >as the Jennite lands] may be as large as Norwold), >sprinkling in a goodly amount "out-of-place" cultures, >a number of independent non-European demihuman and >humanoid nations, adding a few "whimsical" nations >which don't have RW-counterparts (like Alphatia), and >leaving a large portion of Skothar blank for the time >being. I know it's kinda jerky to critique something I >haven't helped with, but since we were on the topic, I >wanted to bring these issues up. I have no problem >with the details I've read concerning particular >M-Asian cultures, I only have concerns about the >larger structure, and how well it stylistically >matches existing Mystaran regions. > >Shane >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:01:05 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >Ok, wow, I'm going to try to answer at least some of the >comments/criticisms/concerns recently posted regarding the MOrient. I have >a feeling, though, that this is probably getting away from general list >interest, and perhaps it should soon be taken to private e-mail. Or in a smaller group... >First off, regarding size/placement of MOriental cultures--that map was >never intended to be a final draft, it was just something i made with >paintbrush based at least loosely on our discussions up to that point >because none of us had easy access to a scanner. The boundaries there were >never intended to be restrictive political boundaries, but rather general >cultural regions to provide at least one option for relative placement. One >of the biggest problems we were facing was the terrain shown on the world >map (which we were assuming to be generally accurate (see Christian >Constantin's map at >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cauldron/5014/Graphs/Maps/Skothar.JPG >to see the general terrain). The size of these areas is generally an >attempt to give them similar terrain types as their RW counterparts. >Another major concern is that the MOrient had to be either completely >unworthy of Alphatian conquest (which really raises the question of why the >Jennites haven't already destroyed them) or somehow strong enough that the >Alphatians are reluctant/afraid to disturb them. We pretty much opted for >the second, since the list's concensus was that MChina should be a major >power, moreso than Thyatis, and enough to frighten Alphatia. Chung-Eun is >still smaller than RW China (although the addtional territories added in >Christian's map could bring it close), and we felt that it needed to be >fairly large in order to frighten Alphatia, stand up to the Jennites, and >occupy/border areas similar to the RW China and its neighbors. One way to downsize the M-Orient countries without making them easy prey would be to multiply their number. Taken alone they would be easy conquests for Alphatia, but such an outside intervention woudl probably force some of them to regroup and fight back to reestablish the statu quo. Then Alphatia would rapidly find it costly to keep colonies in the region, or even dangerous, if it forces the Empire to move some troops away from more vital regions. Also, we shouldn't overestimate Alphatia's power, after all it isn't able to crush the comparatively small Thyatians nor are they able to control the Jennites. >Regarding Ochalea v. Chung-Eun: I don't think the details on Ochalea were >on the web yet when we were working on this. Since we never got terribly >far with any of this, it would certainly make sense to make Chung-Eun=RW >China at different time periods than Ochalea. Ochalea, IMO, is awfully >small for a counterpart to China, but as a lost colony of Chung-Eun it would >certainly make sense. This is the way I have used both region IMC >Regarding MAfrica--I agree that there's a great deal more to do with >MAfrican cultures. At some point this year I hope to begin posting details >of the Nakakande and Konumtali regions of northern Yavdlom, trying to take >inspiration from all over RW Sub-Saharan Africa. Nonetheless, I certainly >understand the reluctance to take up such a large area which the Tanogoro >used to inhabit. One of our dilemmas was that MAfrican cultures would have >to hold their own against other potential rivals. If there is a >culturally/technologically advanced MOriental culture on Skothar, it would >make sense that most of the Tanogoro have either married into the MOrient or >been diplaced (and removed to the Hollow World to save MTanogoro culture). You can give them an edge in the magical field, this way they will be able to hold their ground against the M-Orientals. [snipped, because I don't want to be redundant] Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:01:13 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: [MYSTARA] - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BMYSTARA=5D_-_Mystara_en_fran=E7ais?= This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF0556.C036B3C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't know if I agree with this initiative my friends. I'm as much = against MML-Balkanization as I'm against MML-Babelization... Maybe, it = could have been a better idea to take a period of time in the Mystara = chat schedule, rather than creating a whole new list where we will = always be the same four or five. Well, time will tell :-\ Christian "Krieg!" Constantin =20 =20 =20 Some news, for everyones feel concerned, a Mystara list is now = created in french only.=20 We still stay connected with Original MML, and of course if = something interest us, we will talk about around both in french and in = english=20 pour ceux qui se sentent concern=E9:=20 voici l'adresse de la messagerie Mystara en fran=E7ais.=20 (Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez Thibault)=20 mystara@com.bi=20 mml pour les french mml frenchy =20 =20 =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF0556.C036B3C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't know if=20 I agree with this initiative my friends. I'm as much against=20 MML-Balkanization as I'm against MML-Babelization... Maybe, it could = have=20 been a better idea to take a period of time in the Mystara chat = schedule,=20 rather than creating a whole new list where we will always be the = same four=20 or five.
Well, time = will tell=20 :-\
Christian "Krieg!" = Constantin
 

 
Some news, = for everyones=20 feel concerned, a Mystara list is now created in french only.
We = still=20 stay connected with Original MML, and of course if something = interest us, we=20 will talk about around both in french and in english
pour ceux = qui se=20 sentent concerné:
voici l'adresse de la messagerie = Mystara en=20 français.
(Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez = Thibault)=20
mystara@com.bi=20
mml=20 pour les french mml frenchy <mystara_french@listbot.com> =
 =20
 =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_00D9_01BF0556.C036B3C0-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:01:10 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention >"fabulously-talented map-makers" Well, thanks Carl, and thanks to Thib who recommended my work, and thanks to my mother, my cat [Snap, Snap, Snap, said the volley of arrows] Christian "Krieg?" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:23:04 EDT From: RLaRue@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry In a message dated 9/22/99 7:50:46 PM Central Daylight Time, spymaster@planetfortress.com writes: << Thri-keen is a monster from the Dark Sun world, for those who don't know, and really shouldn't be dumped on Mystara without a reason. >> Actually, the Thri-keen have been around for longer than Dark Sun has been. The first appearance I can remember (outside an adventure) was the AD&D 1st Edition Monster Manual II. It was only because Dark Sun added them as possible PCs that they became widely known. So, this would seem to place them as Greyhawk creatures by default since in 1983 (when MMII came out) everything AD&D was also Greyhawk (for the most part). Rick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:39:25 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D Bigotry SteelAngel wrote: > They criticized Bruce because he dropped the thri-keen in. Thri-keen is a > monster from the Dark Sun world, for those who don't know, and really > shouldn't be dumped on Mystara without a reason. Some members of the MMB > jumped on bruce for that, and we all fleshed out what the Mystaran > "Mantis-folk" would be. Thus we got a thri-keen-like society, but with a > Mystaran, NOT Athasian theme. Actually, Thri-Kreen are from Monster Manual 2, 1st Edition. (Page 119) They're definitely a well-developed part of the Dark Sun Campaign world, but they did appear in 1st Edition first. Adamantyr "It's Specularum, damn it!"   *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:26:01 EDT From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Do gamers have a brain of their own? In a message dated 9/22/99 2:16:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: << I think you fail to see the point. You have an opinion about OD&D and AD&D. That is fine. But others here and elsewhere have criticized others to introduced material that is not in the OD&D format. Bruce Heard even got a tast of an OD&D-Bigots foul medicine for introducing a Thri-Kree >> I've been away for a while, but I see I missed another "My version of the game is better than your version of the game" war. I don't know exactly who you speak of that has criticized others loudly for introducing one format of things for Mystara over another (and sorry Bruce, I missed out totally on the Thri-kreen, but I bet they would have fit in the great plains of Davania just fine), but in the past I know some of my favorite projects have been either AD&D or OD&D specific. The main reason the Tome of Spellcraft has been so long in between volumes is because 90% of the spells I have are AD&D in format. I love alot of them, but this is my project for OD&D, since there are some of us that still play that system. It takes time to test and make changes to these spells to bring them into line with the OD&D power structure...AD&D is just too power hungry. As for the Bible-canon wielding bigots out there, Mystara (and the Known World before it) was created for and around the OD&D rules before being bastardized for AD&D. I play both game systems, but my Mystara game will always be OD&D (with house and new rules devised by players everywhere), while my AD&D game will always be Greyhawk (through thick n thin, it's been my AD&D campaign world for 15 years). If you think that there are OD&D bigots out there, remember that there is 1 AD&D bigot for each OD&D bigot and no matter what, neither will admit that his system isn't perfect. This may be just a game where reality is concerned, but think about this: How many other non-rpg games would have allowed us all to meet as many new people and kept us coming back each session to see what happens next? No matter what the system is, it's what the game does for us that we need to remember sometimes, not how it's played. Jim Bobb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:07:50 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: MAfrica (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient) >While I am fairly ignorant of African history and society, I definitely >agree. Much of the continent has been overlooked in RPG systems - then >again, so have many oceanic peoples and some Eurasian ones (the Jennites >are the only example I've ever seen of a Scythian culture) - there's >plenty of room for expansion. Is any Western African culture represented >on Mystara? > >This is the ideal locale for an M-African culture IMO, as it is the >ancestral homeland for Mystaran black humans. What about M-Mesoamericans? >Are the Atraughins the sole surviving descendants of the Azcans? I've been planning for the past couple months to try to flesh out northern Ylaruam, through the Nakakande Rainforest and Konumtali Savannah up to the Great Waste (I know I've been planning to draw maps of pre- and post-X10 maps of Akesoli for a year, but I actually have a campaign heading north through the Nakakande, so I think this might happen) as a general equivalent to RW West Africa. I am no expert on African cultures, but I'm going to attempt to take general ideas from the RW jungle areas around the Gulf of Guinea for the southern Nakakande, ranging north to the Sahel/Sahara borderlands in the Yavdlom Outer Reaches (cf. Savage Coast). What do people think of this idea? Is anyone interested in helping with such a project? If a group does form to create MAfrican cultures on the Tangor Peninsula, perhaps some of my ideas will be of some use, even if they won't be set there IMC. Also, I plan to post whatever I work up on the MMB--if anyone would like to discuss this beforehand or receive copies of whatever I work up, just go ahead and e-mail me. Patrick pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #414 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, September 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 415 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara en français Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Sartori Re: [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys Re: [MYSTARA] - Conventions! (and perhaps a light in this infinite tunnel...) [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI [MYSTARA] - Re: Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:16:26 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) > The reason I bring this up, however, is to toss an >idea out that I've been toying with. What does >everyone think of the idea of trying to organize some >mini-cons, maybe on a regional level? I really like this idea. After all, Milwaukee, while (sarcasm alert!) tempting as a summer vacation destination, isn't really all that handy for a lot of us. Personally, I would love to try to participate in such a convention somewhere in the western US. Of course timing and location could make it awfully difficult for more than a handful of people to show up. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:43:39 +0200 From: Cobaye Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara en français - --------------DDB0AE65F2FF21BF69030CE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Some precisions: this list in french is for members of the official MML in english, who feel better in french than in english to express better the things they've done...... So we think that it would have an english translation in the english MML of questions if desired by members. Christian Constantin a écrit: > > > Don't know if I agree with this initiative my friends. I'm > as much against MML-Balkanization as I'm against > MML-Babelization... Maybe, it could have been a better idea > to take a period of time in the Mystara chat schedule, > rather than creating a whole new list where we will always > be the same four or five.Well, time will tell :-\Christian > "Krieg!" Constantin > > Some news, for everyones feel concerned, a Mystara list is > now created in french only. > We still stay connected with Original MML, and of course if > something interest us, we will talk about around both in > french and in english > pour ceux qui se sentent concerné: > voici l'adresse de la messagerie Mystara en français. > (Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez Thibault) > mystara@com.bi > mml pour les french mml frenchy > > > > - --------------DDB0AE65F2FF21BF69030CE1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some precisions:
this list in french is for members of the official MML in english, who feel better in french than in english to express better the things they've done......
So we think that it would have an english translation in the english MML of questions if desired by members.

Christian Constantin a écrit:

 
Don't know if I agree with this initiative my friends. I'm as much against MML-Balkanization as I'm against MML-Babelization... Maybe, it could have been a better idea to take a period of time in the Mystara chat schedule, rather than creating a whole new list where we will always be the same four or five.Well, time will tell :-\Christian "Krieg!" Constantin 

 Some news, for everyones feel concerned, a Mystara list is now created in french only.
We still stay connected with Original MML, and of course if something interest us, we will talk about around both in french and in english
pour ceux qui se sentent concerné:
voici l'adresse de la messagerie Mystara en français.
(Vous pouvez vous inscrire en passant chez Thibault)
mystara@com.bi
mml pour les french mml frenchy <mystara_french@listbot.com>
 
 

  - --------------DDB0AE65F2FF21BF69030CE1-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:58:27 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard should > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to > constructive criticism.<< [Håvard] > > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point Joaquin was > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't fit > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. How to > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. I totally agree with you on this one. If my post was interpreted otherwise I appologize. Scuttling discussions as you say shouldn´t be tolerated in any case. Discussions are what we´re here for in the first place, isn´t it? > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is valid.<< > > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should accept > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML or the > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. Thats not exactly what I meant. Although, my scandinavian background might have some impact on my reasoning here :) What I´m saying is that an email stating that "this or that sucks cause it introduces AD&D stuff" shouldn´t be tolerated. But if i post and say, "shouldnt we try to make this a bit different from the Forgotten Realms. Here are some suggestions to how, and this will make it cooler IMHO" that is a good thing :) Mind control policemen (and women, Loretta) are not welcome on this list or the MMB i´d imagine. > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the other > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great range of > resources which can be easily adapted.<< > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not necessarily > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about something > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. The > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. I agree. Friends now? :) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:06:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > This is my idea. I see the Vyalians have a mutual agreement with the > Emperor. The Emperor gave the Vyalians an official status to > recognize them for more favorable relations. The Vyalians in turn > enjoy an autonomy. They will not ally themselves, nor trade with an > known enemy, and they will not do anything to undermine the Empire of > Thyatis. This makes great sense to me. > Beyond this, the Vyalians are not expected to do anything for the > Emperor or Thyatis. If they were told to kill, which is against their > moral code, for humans, they would not choose to do so. If they were > to sacrifice themselves, they would not choose to do so either. If > Thyatis invaded Vyalian (because they didn't obey the Emperor), they > would defend themselves valiantly. Thyatis could win with sheer > numbers of troops, but the losses on the Thyatian side, would be > gortesque. The Vyalians would rather die defending themselves rather > than kill for humans, or risk their lives for human matters. You mention the elves moral code. Could you expand on your thoughts about this code? :) > Both sides have this understanding, and both sides do not press the > issue to avoid uneeded confrontation. > The Vyalians do however patrol the forests and trade with humans. > This increases the economy of Thyatis in general. It also allows > Thyatis to retain less troops to patrol and guard Thyatis, and the > Vyalians will do this for Thyatis. These valuable troops can be > re-deployed elsewhere. What does this patrol consist in? Would they let an invading army pass though? (From Karameikos or Thyatis) > I think this is sensible. Do people still think the Vyalians would > kill/sacrifice their lives for human affairs? The problem is IMO the Alfheimers. If they get involved in a conflict between Karameikos and Thyatis, I think the Vyalia might easily be drawn in aswell. For this reason, I think the Vyalia will do their best to discourage Alfheimers to participate in the war. Because they know that humans will get the impression that the Elves are on this or that side of the war if either group gets involved. Comments? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:37:59 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Sartori At Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:14:39 -0400, John Hofmann wrote: >I didn't understand much of what you wrote .. I have a few questions for >you. Perhaps I'm ignorant or just haven't read enough about Mystara to >keep up with you here ... Nope, you're not ignorant. The key word you seem to have missed is the "IMC" magic acronym I inserted at the beginning, meaning In My Campaign. The whole letter attaches itself to another one I posted previously where I detailed the One God's and Sartori's story. For the sake of your mental sanity, I'll repeat it here... :) >What is the Craft? It's more than Magic, it's being One with the Universe. >What is the Hinge? Where is it? What does it do? Where did it come >from? The Hinge is a gargantuan tower/castle where Sartori lives, it's hideout in the Outer Planes, completely surrounded by the Barrier... the place where he is mostly near to his father, the One God. Its origins are unknown, altho the Cult of the One tells Sartori made it, while some Immortals speculate that only the One God could have been capable of building it. The whole outer plane of the Hinge (named Yzorderrex) is a big city where all people are mortals (even the Immortals are forced to assume a Mortal Identity when they enter there) except the ruler, known as the Autarch (in fact, Sartori). >Who is the Shadowmaster? You lost me completely on your paranthetical >statement. I don't understand any of that, in fact, I can't even make >any sense of it whatsoever. When does this happen, I can't make that >out? Is that something that your PCs still have to do, or is it somthing >that they already did, do they have to go BACK to the Nightmare >Dimension? What exactly does that statement mean? It relates to an epic adventure my PCs accomplished a couple of months ago.. >First Generation Immortals ... I'm assuming that they are the Immortals >that were around before Thanatos, Odin, Ixion, and crew came about. >They're the ones that the oldest Immortals can't remember; their >Sponsors. Am I close here? How did the First Generation Immortals >become sealed in "that room?" Actually, among First Generations Immortals I count three still living: Ixion, Thanatos (who came to be when Death first happened in the universe) and the ruler of the Nightmare Dimension. The three Immortals imprisoned below the Hinge were put there by Sartori when they tried to kill him millennia ago.. >Also, which key are you referring to? You mentioned a key, a True Key, >and I believe you aluded to the fact that the key is just information. >Are any of these correct? Indeed. the Key is the information necessary to complete a complex ritual that would have united the universe once more making the Barrier (Vortex) collapse and the One God (who's imprisoned behind it) return to the universe. > >Sartori, are they a race, a group, a person? Son of teh One God. >> the PC Sartori (long story). Well, at the end the PC Sartori gets > >PCs can be Sartori? I would REALLY appreciate it if someone brought me >up to speed at these Sartori. Actually, that's a bit complex. Sartori was defeated by the First Immortals many aeons ago, as I told in my last post. However, he cast a spell that could reincarnate him in the Hinge before dying. The problem is, he did not foresee that by killing him, the Immortals had also weakened the fabric of the universe, and the UNIverse became the MULTIverse. Similarly, the soul of Sartori was broken up and reincarnated into five different bodies (one for each Domain -Prime Plane, Ethereal, Elementals, Astral and Outer Planes). Each time one of the "reincarnations" of Sartori dies, its soul is reincarnated in another newborn body in that same Plane, and it keeps going on and on since th beginning of the Multiverse. Problem is, only the one living in the Hinge knows his real ID, all others do not suspect of the true story. And it happened In My Campaign that one of the PCs was indeed the reincarnation of the Sartori who lived in the Prime.. >So, Sartori can imprison the First Generation Immortals. What could >disintegrate a Sartori then? Technically he's still mortal, and it can be (and in fact it was) killed, altho that's REALLY difficult. I dare say: "Only another Sartori could kill a Sartori.." :) > >So, Gareth is a First Generation Immortal. I get this part, and it's >intriguing. I'm glad u (at least) read this post :) > >I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm just trying to figure out what you're >talking about here. If you, or someone else, could bring me up to speed >about what I've been missing, I'd very much appreciate it. Hope I've shed some light. Just in case u want to know more, read the following part: it deals with the origins of Sartori and the one. Ok, time to explain a bit more of my cosmology. This doesn't take into account the origins of the Old Ones nor of the Outer Beings. What I'm giving to you is the history of the universe as told by the Cult of the One God. This is not the TRUE story, however (I'll tell u that in a later time). Note that I have borrowed many things from Clive Barker's masterful novel "Imajica". "In the Beginning, three things existed in the universe: Chaos, Vacuum and the One God. Then the One God discovered the Craft and with his power he gave Order to Chaos and put Life into Vacuum. This way, the first planets were created and the tiniest and most primitive lifeforms moved the first tentative steps on those worlds. Time passed, and the living began to know the Love and the Power of the One God, and they started worshipping him as Hapexamendios. Then Hapexamendios decided it was time to create a companion, and using the Craft he took Chaos and gave it a shape, then took Life and breathed it in the shape. Thus the First Goddess was born, and Hapexamendios named her Tishalullè. She was devout to the One God, who taught her how to use the Craft and they ruled the universe together. "However, after a while the First Goddess began to envy the power that her Husband had over his Universe, and she craved the absolute power for herself. From her malign thoughts the seeds of Evil were born, and they infected many of the living species in the universe, who, mislead by her obscene promises, sworn fealty to Tishalullè. In reward for their loyalty, she taught to the most vicious the secrets of the Craft, and these became the First Generation Immortals. With them, the First Goddess plotted to overthrow the First God, since Death was not known to the people who lived in the Universe. But Hapexamendios foresaw his mistress's plans, and so he gave birth to his beloved Son, the First Sorcerer, who would have helped him in his battle against the Immortals. But Tishalullè and the Immortals managed to trick the One God and they created the Barrier, later called the Vortex, where they imprisoned the One God, hopefully forever. "But they had not taken into account the First Sorcerer, Sartori. Once grown to full power and having achieved the mastery of the Craft, he challenged the First Goddess, still weakened by the creation of the Barrier, and managed to slay her. From her womb Death came out, and the living became Mortals, while the Immortals, who knew the power of the Craft, were safe from its touch. Thus Thanatos was created. "The Immortals came far too late to help the Mother of all Troubles and gave chase to Sartori. To hide from the mischievous beings, Sartori created his own hideout, the massive Tower of the Hinge, very close to the Barrier, where his Father laid prisoner. Sartori knew the way to free the One God from his prison, but he also knew he did not have the power to perform the ritual after the taxing battle with the First Goddess. He also knew the Immortals would have tracked him soon, so he started taking drastic measures. Foreseeing his doom, the First Sorcerer created the Shadowmaster and sent him to the ND to guard the secret that will have allowed him to open the gate where his father had been imprisoned. Since the First God was the linchpin that made the universe one, when the first Immortals confined him beyond the Barrier with the help of Tishalullè the Universe was shaken. But when they came and together killed Sartori (who had fled outside the Hinge to meet them and avoid they discover his hideout) the fabric of the Universe collapsed and the Multiverse was formed. Then the Immortals, without a leader, divided and vied for supremacy, allying themselves to one another and forming the Spheres of Power. The First Generation Immortals who still live today are three: Thanatos (who however didn't participate in the Betrayl or the Murder), Ixion (who led the Immortals against Sartori after Tishalullè's demise) and Kal-hoven (who left the Multiverse after the formation of the Five Domains and is believed dead). "But Sartori's plan had only began to work. He had cast a powerful spell on himself, and when slain, his body began to reform in the secret chambers of the Hinge. Unfortunately, he did not foresee the breaking of the Universe, and as the universe collaped and was divided into the different Domains (Planes), so was his life essence, so tied to the Universe itself. For this reason, now there are Five Sartori living in the Five Domains, but only the one living in the Outer PLane of Yzorderrex (where the Hinge lies) knows the truth. "But Sartori was no fool, and he arranged for his rebirth. So we all believe the time will come when all the Sartori will reunite and together they will find the Key to open the Barrier and free the One God once more. That day we will be by his side and will finally become part of the Craft. That day the oppressive reign of the Immortals will end, and the new Reign of the One God and his followers will begin anew!" Note 1: the Craft is not just Magic, is something more powerful and now forgotten. Magic is what is left of the Craft after the division of the universe and the formation of the immortal Spheres of Power. Note 2: IMC the Nightmare Dimension has its own Elemental Spheres and Ethereal plane, but NO Astral nor Outer PLanes whatsoever. The Dimension is a seemingly neverending flat land with many different terrain types and kingdoms (called Domains), each ruled by its own Column (a most powerful being of near-immortal status). However, all beings swear loyalty to the one true Immortal of the ND, the Kal-hoven (or Nightmare Lord) and to his henchman the Shadowmaster (Kai-hevek). What is most frightening to the Immortals of the Multiverse is the knowledge that their powers are strangely warped in the ND (reduced and altered), and that the Kal-hoven is somewhat similar to them, but belongs to no clear Sphere of Power (the same applies for the Shadowmaster). The truth is, the Nightmare Lord is a creature as much old as the oldest immortal. He belongs to the first Generation Immortals, but he never took part in the creation of the Immortal Factions (spheres of power) since he left the Multiverse before their creation. He established himself as the sole ruler of the Nightmare Dimension, which he saw fitter to his (nearly insane) mind and there he still stands, sole ruler of the whole Dimension. The Shadowmaster is, on the other hand, a being created by the First Sorcerer (Sartori), a powerful demi-immortal entity who was defeated long ago in the battle that created the Multiverse. Okay, that's all for now... I hope I haven't annoyed you ;) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:07:00 From: "katri w" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys > thibault sarlat kirjoitti: > hello all. > i took upon myself to create a french mailing list dedicated to mystara. cool... being neither native english- or frenchspeaker, i've found it very useful to keep my skills of foreign languages alive by using em as much as possible and different ways.. so i'll certainly join that list and lurk there too :o) > And as someone asked why i joined the mml, i answer: > i don't play d&d anymore, because my old players are all gone living > their lives. But i am so keen on Mystara that i wanted to be a part of > its combat to stay alive. I like speaking english (or at least trying > to), and i wanted to contribute. So as english is not my mother tongue i > decided to make maps (and i do love maps , just like Bilbo ). > I am amazed to see the creativity of some members and sometime i envy > them. But i keep doing my maps.I found friendship on the mml, and > that's more than i wished at first. > thib. why i joined this list: im DMing.. and all the time seeking new ideas for game... people like you Thib, dedicated to create and keep alive Mystara really are making the reading of this list worth!!! and again.. i want equally to thank you ALL who keep posting all sorts of great stuff here... im still shamelessly stealing ideas! only thing what resently have annoyed me a bit (and obviously some others aswell) is ..umm.. kind of an athmosphere of intolerance... debate is good... and sometimes best ideas born that way... but trying to "convert" others isnt -i think- the idea of this arena... there is slight difference between telling one's opinion/sharing it/disagreeing and narrow-minded preaching of one truth and i admit its sometimes very hard to draw a line between them we come from different cultures, age-,social- etc groups and the possibility of misunderstanding is a continuous threat I follow one rule... I do with MY campaigns what I feel is fun/good/logical etc.. and others do whatever they feel is fun... doing things my way dont prevent me to respect the creations of people who thinks differently or even use their ideas, whether they are using different rules or having their campaings in totally different time/space as mine is I keep myself the right to disagree, but I dont think i have right to judge... only purpose of sharing my humble opinion with you (and i do think you have right to disagree!) of this matter is simply this: I want thus express my full 101%(listlurker's) support to Leroy's 'declaration'!!!!!!!!!!!! Katri Wallenius who cant tolerate intolerance ______________________________________________________ 100 000 uutta ystävää. Artic. http://www.artic.net/ads/go.cgi?go=124&r=email *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:53:45 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Conventions! (and perhaps a light in this infinite tunnel...) "Thibault's INCREDIBLE maps" stop i'm blushing!!! - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:48:58 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Anyone interested in or know of a good Mystara Play by email? Most of my old gamer buddies are spread all over the US now and so the only games I get to be in are PBEM, at least until I find some new RPGers. Sooo... Addresses or ideas welcome. Also, thanks guys for the "WotI" warnings. I'm looking for the set for my DM knowledge. I've been good at separating player knowledge from character knowledge in the past, so I'm not too worried about spoiling anything. Not to mention that I still haven't finished reading and absorbing the Gaz's et al that I have already. So any insite as to places to look or what price to expect for the WotI set would be appreciated. Myrkul, ATheisen order of Mysticism Ed Paynter epaynter@iupui.edu I hope to soon have a mini-web page that can at least be viewed. I am a web-novice as far as design goes. All the stuff you guys have is really cool, and I've been getting great ideas! But I don't think I'll ever be ready for "suggestions" (sigh) Maybe I'll take a web design class next semester, if I can find time in my school/work schedule. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:59:26 -0700 From: Eleanor Williams Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Have you been to the Yahoo Chat site? There's no reason why a second game site couldn't be set up. I, for one, would play, and am sure there are others on the mailing list that would also. 2c worth E *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:45:54 From: "katri w" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI > Ed Paynter kirjoitti: > Anyone interested in or know of a good Mystara Play by email? by e-mail??? huh... sounds...umm...i dunno...complicated(?) im actually planning to start an online-rpg, on irc, with few friends and if anyone has any experience about that type of rpg I would be very grateful to have comments/tips etc bout it... there was sometime ago discussion about the chatroom for mystara-fans; irc could be one option. anyone can create a temporary channel and operate it for permanent channel...well.. that requires bit more... i know that that there are in different irc-servers already existing channels for rpg and fantasy in general (but can't remember any name right now...) - -- KATRI "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." (Tweedledee) ______________________________________________________ Sokkotreffit tänään? http://www.artic.net/ads/go.cgi?go=106&r=email *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:21:25 +0200 From: Gotrek Morwarf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Favorite Modules (Was RE: - Palace of the Silver Princess) Damon Brown wrote... > My instant personal fave is B10: Night's Dark >Terror. I just got my copy in the mail over the >weekend and was completely amazed. The level of detail >is unparalleled... it competes w/ the Gazetteers as >far as info & background and blows 'em all away when >it comes to maps. Most of Northern Karameikos is >mapped out at 3miles/hex(!). The story is completely >epic! Fisrt rate stuff from the same guys at TSR/UK >who did CM6: Where Chaos Reigns and O2: Blade of >Vengeance, also superior modules. I like it also very much. The maps was great IMHO as the entire campaign. I considered it like a complement of the Karameikos Gazetteer, because the description of Threshold and Northern Karameikos is completed IMHO. I'm afraid because I own the Italian version, and I didn't see the English version, then I can't say if my version is different from yours. I never saw the other two modules, but if they are made from the same staff of B10, I believe that they are very good too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Gotrek Morwarf Kurtar, Buhrodar clan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:16:28 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI > > Anyone interested in or know of a good Mystara Play by email? > > by e-mail??? huh... sounds...umm...i dunno...complicated(?) Play-by-email can be tough, but it rids you of the time contstraints involved otherwise. It makes the DM more of a story-guide, where he/she sends general info and asks for the plan of action from each character. Then hs/she coordinates this together and moves the situation ahead as far as he can until he needs more player input. The last PBeM I was in, the DM took liberty to conduct combat himself, according to guidelines given by players. Example: Player: Myrkul ranges out in front of the party. If he encounters hostile persons/monsters, he will yell out a warning and immediately rush the enemies, unless outnumbered. Otherwise, he will approach non-hostile persons and greet them cordially, trying to get a first impression before they know how many people are in "our" party DM response: Myrkul ranges out in front, using his experience and training to alert the party to any problems before they get too close. Boldar and Varis stay to the rear (As dictated by their players' intents). As you proceed, Myrkul spots a group of humanoids that appear to be tearing up a camp site. You hear occassional shouts and cries from the camp in a language you are not familiar with. As the party gets closer, Myrkul signals trouble and sprints off toward the camp, leaving the rest of the party to decide if they should follow. (The DM makes assumption that Myrkul would prefer to maintain surprise rather than yell out and be noticed) Actual mesaages might be more descriptive, but the best part was the way the DM could show eveything in story format, plus private info is easy to keep private with email. > im actually planning to start an online-rpg, on irc, with few friends and if anyone has any experience about that type of rpg I would be very grateful to have comments/tips etc bout it... I have run a short, "real-time" adventure through a chat. I worked okay, but can be difficult to maintain. You can scroll back to get individual messages, but it seemed to bog down and you need to limit the number of players. either way, running a game is more difficult when you can't see and talk directly to the players. But it can still be great fun! > -- > KATRI > "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." > (Tweedledee) > > ______________________________________________________ > Sokkotreffit tänään? > http://www.artic.net/ads/go.cgi?go=106&r=email > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:16:17 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) >You mention the elves moral code. Could you expand on your thoughts about >this code? :) The Vyalians have a strong code to protect life and nature. Some of their code includes the following: - - Never act to kill life unless in self-defense. (1) - - Never give into hatred or anger, as that leads to the path of Entropy. - - Do not give into fear, as fear will destroy them. - - When two paths lead to the same result, choose the path of peace. (1) There are some that take this further. They add: - Always avoid to take life if possible. Defend oneself and others, but do not take offense. Many commonly agree with this, but they make exceptions for hunting game, and some are more devote vegatarians. Many also make an exception for forces of Entropy and forces that seek to destroy nature. Though they will not take direct offense, many will position themselves to that they are forced to defend themselves against destroyers of life and nature. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #415 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, September 23 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 416 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Sartori Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Question!! (was: Bigotry vs. Criticism) Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard [MYSTARA] - Seelie History (Part 1) Re: [MYSTARA] - Seelie History (Part 1) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:18:12 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism Sounds interesting. It always seems out of print stuff is better. - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:41:42 jdaly wrote: >Remember after the success of TSR, how there were all sorts of piddly little >games that came out on the heels? Ysgarth, 3rd edition, was a bright spot in >an entire league of copycats. I swear, this game has it all. >Unfortunately, it is also out of print. > >Ysgarth as a system, is going to be put out in 7th edition, but it is now a >hopeless copy of GURPS. It tries too hard to be other systems, when it had >a beautiful system to begin with. > >The nice part is, I don't spend any money on rules systems anymore, since >our hybrid Ysgarth campaign is perfect. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mr. Darknerd >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 7:53 PM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism > > >> What is the 3rd party system?? Just curious. >> -- >> >> On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:59:38 jdaly wrote: >> >I am playing a 3rd party system that beats them all. But D&D will always >be >> >my first love, and yes, I do agree that D&D has certain um...traits, that >> >make it better for Mystara than AD&D. Doesn't mean conversion can't >happen, >> >just that one must take care. >> > >> >I think the 3rd party system I use is more appropriate for Mystara even >than >> >D&D. >> > >> >*grins* >> > >> > >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: IronWolf >> >To: >> >Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 3:15 PM >> >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Bigotry vs. Criticism >> > >> > >> >> Well, I am going to be running Mystara in AD&D. My reasons for doing so >> >are >> >> twofold: >> >> >> >> 1) Nearly all my players are used to and have the materials for AD&D. >OD&D >> >is >> >> something most of them don't recognize or know, and they spend half the >> >game >> >> looking through manuals (MY manuals to be precise, since I'm the only >one >> >with >> >> any) and generally do not have as much fun. >> >> >> >> 2) AD&D is a better system for characters, in my personal opinion. I >made >> >and >> >> played an Honorbound Rakasta Warrior using the AD&D system, and he >worked >> >> beautifully. (Plus he kicked butt.) With Kits, race/class combinations >and >> >> multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of >options. >> >> >> >> I am not arguing that you abandon OD&D. If you and your players enjoy >it, >> >play >> >> it! It's largely dependent on the environment, your players, and what >> >works best >> >> for you. >> >> >> >> Adamantyr >> >> >> >> "It's Specularum, damn it!" >> >> >> >> Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >> > >>Criticism is part of the game too. And I dont see why Bruce Heard >> >should >> >> > be left out of the criticism. Ofcourse, people should stick to >> >> > constructive criticism.<< [H?ard] >> >> > >> >> > I don't mind criticism when it is useful. That's not the point >Joaquin >> >was >> >> > trying to make. Attempting to scuttle a discussion because it doesn't >> >fit >> >> > one's perception of the game IMO does not qualify as constructive. >How >> >to >> >> > make the idea work does, and that's often part of a new thread. >> >> > >> >> > >> But I think the leave AD&D2 stuff out of the game argument is >> >valid.<< >> >> > >> >> > ...in your campaign. In others it is perfectly fine and you should >> >accept >> >> > this or simply ignore the thread. What's wrong with this? Why this >> >> > mind-control-police mentality? Nothing that is brought up on the MML >or >> >the >> >> > MMB strikes me as being final or obligatory to anyone, including the >> >> > sacro-sanct canon-Mystara. >> >> > >> >> > >> I like to try and keep mystara as different as possible from the >> >other >> >> > AD&D worlds. However, I can see why people want to include AD&D stuff >> >> > especially if they are using the AD&D rules as they provide a great >> >range of >> >> > resources which can be easily adapted.<< >> >> > >> >> > Good for you. Adapting elements used in other campaigns does not >> >necessarily >> >> > mean imitating these other campaigns. Giving a discussion about >> >something >> >> > like this a chance to go on before pouncing on it should also happen. >> >The >> >> > point is to have fun talking about the game. That's all. >> >> > >> >> > Bruce Heard >> >> > >> >>*************************************************************************** >> >> > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >> >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> >> > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> >> >> >> >> >>*************************************************************************** >> >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >> >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> > >> >>*************************************************************************** >> >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. >> > >> > >> >> >> HotBot - Search smarter. >> http://www.hotbot.com >> >*************************************************************************** >> To unsubscribe from this list send mail to >majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >> with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) - --- Patrick Sullivan wrote: > I really like this idea. After all, Milwaukee, > while (sarcasm alert!) > tempting as a summer vacation destination, isn't > really all that handy for a > lot of us. Personally, I would love to try to > participate in such a > convention somewhere in the western US. Of course > timing and location could > make it awfully difficult for more than a handful of > people to show up. > Patrick > Yeah, GenCon would be great (even if it *is* in Milwaukee ;~p), but traveling even as far as Wisconsin is not terribly feasible for me... but I could manage to make it to pretty much anywhere in Washington, Oregon, Idaho or British Columbia for a weekend. That's the reason I suggested doing regional ones. With that in mind, is there anyone in the Pacific Northwest(or able to travel up here) interested in maybe participating in something like this(maybe within the next 6 months or so)? E-mail me privately if you're interested (habgyp@yahoo.com). If people in other areas aren't interested, etc., I'm not trying to talk anyone into anything. I just suggested different regions because I didn't want other people to feel excluded if I brought up the idea of a Mystara-Con NW. Anyway, not trying to speak for anybody, but I think it would be great if we could add yet another forum to the excellent Mystara resources (MML,MMB, various websites, etc.) already available. auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:13:20 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! hi since the orient project seems to be a hot subject presently, i've decided to to draw the eastern part of skothar in 72 miles per hex but i would not set frontiers so that YOU (emphasize) can do it.Everyone will then be able to propose the frontiers he thinks would fit and so the debate would be made visual. i think i would have finnish it by the end of the week. be patient. thib - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:29:53 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Looking at all these great maps everyone has drawn, I sometimes get lost. Does anyone have a political map, with just countries/kingdoms and major water features? You know, like those global maps that just label cities, capitals and countries. I'm interested in multiple time periods. I'd like to eventually have an interactive political map that you can point and click to get the more detailed maps everyone has been drawing. Suggestions, commenst and references are all welcome, and in fact are requested. :-) Myrkul the Andrewite Mystic epaynter@iupui.edu "Who'd have thought, IU, Purdue, both sharing a campus? Scary..." Ed Paynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:30:14 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! In a message dated 9/23/99 11:13:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: << hi since the orient project seems to be a hot subject presently, i've decided to to draw the eastern part of skothar in 72 miles per hex but i would not set frontiers so that YOU (emphasize) can do it.Everyone will then be able to propose the frontiers he thinks would fit and so the debate would be made visual. i think i would have finnish it by the end of the week. be patient. thib >> The maps look great but I do have one question...does everyone else have the individual city and terrain icons show up pointing the wrong direction from "north" on the maps or is it just me? ;) froggy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:42:10 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gareth and Sartori On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:37:59 +0200 DM writes: > At Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:14:39 -0400, John Hofmann > wrote: > > Nope, you're not ignorant. The key word you seem to have missed is > the > "IMC" magic acronym I inserted at the beginning, meaning In My > Campaign. > The whole letter attaches itself to another one I posted previously > where I > detailed the One God's and Sartori's story. > > For the sake of your mental sanity, I'll repeat it here... :) <> Thank you for clarifying those things. This is interesting stuff!!! John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:38:20 -0500 From: "Jeff & Lauri Fox" Subject: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) I love this idea!!!!! I already run several gaming cons a year in the rpga great plains region. We could tag Myatara meatings to any of them. Jeff & Laurie Fox Great Plains RPGA Regional Directors BransCon IV Coordinators GAM President & Vice-president All-around fun folks fror@gte.net (417)561-2030 What does >everyone think of the idea of trying to organize some >mini-cons, maybe on a regional level? > Keep in mind, this idea is very embryonic but I >initially envisioned maybe folks getting together in >various areas on a semi-formal basis. I'm not talking >about anything rivaling the established cons - more >just a way for some of us Mystara-philes to get >together for a weekend and have a few game sessions, >discussion panels, and *gasp* actual face to face >conversations. > This is just food for thought but here's some >examples of different regional groupings: North >America as follows - Northwest, Southwest, Midwest, >Northeast, Southeast. Maybe one or two in Europe, >another in Australia, one in South America. Like I >said I'm just tossing ideas out here... > > Anyway, what do you folks think? > >auf wiedersehen, >Damon > >PS In light of recent tensions(which seem to >thankfully be resolved), this might be a nice way for >us all to build some bridges... > >===== >If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:06:07 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:29:53 -0500 "Ed Paynter" writes: > I'm interested in multiple time periods. I'd > like to > eventually have an interactive political map that you can point and > click to > get the more detailed maps everyone has been drawing. Suggestions, > commenst > and references are all welcome, and in fact are requested. :-) > I've been kicking around the idea of making a map of Mystara with Campaign Cartographer 2, which allows you to link other maps or files to your map. That means you could click on Karameikos and pull up a smaller-scale map of Karameikos. You could click on Threshold, and bring up a map of Threshold or a Word document describing Threshold and some personalities that live there. Or you could click on the Cruth mountains and get encounter tables and sites of interest. CC2 doesn't make tiled Gazateer-style maps (at least, I haven't been able to figure out how to do it), which is bad because I'm very fond of Gazateer style maps. But my point is, someone with CC2 could make a good Mystara map. John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:04:21 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - skothar new maps to come!! yes it's one of the main default of the prog i use to draw the maps, the hex are oriented east. but otherwise it works ok.i am used to it now. thib GlobalFrog@aol.com a écrit: > In a message dated 9/23/99 11:13:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > > << > hi > since the orient project seems to be a hot subject presently, i've > decided to to draw the eastern part of skothar in 72 miles per hex but i > would not set frontiers so that YOU (emphasize) can do it.Everyone will > then be able to propose the frontiers he thinks would fit and so the > debate would be made visual. > > i think i would have finnish it by the end of the week. > be patient. > > thib >> > > The maps look great but I do have one question...does everyone else have the > individual city and terrain icons show up pointing the wrong direction from > "north" on the maps or is it just me? ;) > > froggy > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:06:56 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? "But my point is, someone with CC2 could make a good Mystara map. " you mean that my maps are not good??? just kidding. i have CC2 but i don't like it . as for the interactive maps i intend to do that with mine.be patient. thib John Hofmann a écrit: > On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:29:53 -0500 "Ed Paynter" > writes: > > I'm interested in multiple time periods. I'd > > like to > > eventually have an interactive political map that you can point and > > click to > > get the more detailed maps everyone has been drawing. Suggestions, > > commenst > > and references are all welcome, and in fact are requested. :-) > > > > I've been kicking around the idea of making a map of Mystara with > Campaign Cartographer 2, which allows you to link other maps or files to > your map. That means you could click on Karameikos and pull up a > smaller-scale map of Karameikos. You could click on Threshold, and bring > up a map of Threshold or a Word document describing Threshold and some > personalities that live there. Or you could click on the Cruth mountains > and get encounter tables and sites of interest. > > CC2 doesn't make tiled Gazateer-style maps (at least, I haven't been able > to figure out how to do it), which is bad because I'm very fond of > Gazateer style maps. > > But my point is, someone with CC2 could make a good Mystara map. > > John Hofmann > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? - --- thibault sarlat wrote: > "But my point is, someone with CC2 could make a good > Mystara map. " > you mean that my maps are not good??? > just kidding. > i have CC2 but i don't like it . > When I got CC2, I was kinda overwhelmed. I mean, sure, it was easy to use. But, WOW, the potential seems almost unlimited. I didn't really know where to start. I think it's much more suited for making player maps, though. IMHO, the style of maps from the Gazetteers, as well as your site (not to mention Hoddie's, Geoff's, Christian's, and oh... I know I'm leaving someone out), is much more useful as a DM reference. > as for the interactive maps i intend to do that with > mine.be patient. > Cool. I look forward to seeing that. Keep up the good work, Thib! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:50:56 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - AD&D Question!! (was: Bigotry vs. Criticism) - -- On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:06:22 SteelAngel wrote: > >> With Kits, race/class combinations and >> multi/dual class, AD&D gives the players a much wider variety of options. > >So many options, so many things that are so complex. Why is it that AD&D has >to be so darn complex?? I just played a friendly game AD&D1 has a lot of innovative ideas which many people liked. Many ideas were from Dragon articles. But they game became inconsistant. AD&D2 was introduced to simplify things. The class were structured and organized to have WARRIOR, PRIEST, ROGUE, and WIZARD groups. New classes developed would fit well into these categories. But TSR chose not to develop new classes. The Handbooks introduced Kits. They started out a campaign roles the players could use to encourage role-play, and then new kits were added to augment classes, and new kits were added to give bonuses and special abilities. Thus most groteaque was Elven Handbook which seems to grant more benefits to those that have more classes. :-( The kits made everything confusing again. Then there came Skills&Powers, Spells&Magic, and Combat&Tactics. Many ideas and rules were introduced, and nothing was consolidated. Now just to play own role someone needs a forklift. Now there comes D&D3. There will be several new books and expansion rules upon these rules, and then expansion rules on those rules. And further expansion upon those rules, into D&D4 is released. :-( I think we all see the pattern. Even though I prefer AD&D2, I am not blind to what is going on. However, I should make one point. I think it is important to define campaign roles that the PCs will roleplay. As these roles are defined, people can make kits up (for AD&D2) or simply classes up (for OD&D) or just act out a role using a generic class. This adds flavor to the game without suffering from muckinism of being able to play everything and min/max, e.g. drow fighter/mage/priest with wild talent psionics and a fighter/mage/priest kit and speciality priest. of AD&D (one-shot >Desert of Desolation-based adventure) recently. I don't really like AD&D, >as most people here know, but hey, it's my favorite module. > >Ok, so anyway, we had so much to choose from in character creation. Players >handbooks/Rules options, etc. It takes me about 10 minutes to roll up a >character in OD&D. It took slightly longer (about 1/2 hr) in AD&D. No >biggie, I can deal with that. > >During the adventure, we had about 3 elf multi-classes, a human mage, and a >tinker gnome (me). Every battle those crazy elves pulled out another bonus, >and the DM went scrambling for rules clarification through like 3 books. Oi. >It's bad enough my little gnome was rather useless, I don't have all those >cool spells/theif abilities etc. My DM shot down an AD&D translation of a >Serrainian Gnome, so I was stuck being a dumb short guy with a bag of toys >that blow me up.. > >Anyway, my point is for all the AD&D people out there, if you allow your >characters all these "options" how do you keep them all straight? When I DM >OD&D games I have a problem remembering everything, and I have the RC right >in front of me. With AD&D it just gets exponentially harder IMHO. > > >Ethan - I had fun though. Even when I got dropped from the top of the >pyramid. 20d6 damage.. yum :) > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:54:31 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? However, I'm trying to get just the boundary info, without the terrain, except for oceans. Like the US map they use in elementary school. Just different colors for each state. etc... If anyone has one or knows of one, drop a note :-) epaynter@iupui.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:01:21 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thyatis's backyard >Well, sea-elves do exist, in GAZ 9 (The Minrothad Guilds). They are not >aquatic elves, but a clan of elves who are adept sailors and navigators, >and excellent merchants to boot. They could easily turn their skills to >privateering, should they so desire. The Meditor elves are proof that not >all elves are tree-dwellers. If they can become adept sailors, any elf >could. This is very correct. How does this relate to the Vyalia elves (or even Calarii elves) being involved in a war between Thyatis and Karameikos. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:11:01 -0700 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Seelie History (Part 1) I was creating some background work on the Seelie, Unseelie, and Selenii. I thought others might like this. Below: - ------------------------------------------------------ The Understanding Beyond Existence - Story of the Fey In the beginning there was only oblivion and within this oblivion there was something. The contest between Entropy and Creation continued. Time, Matter, Energy, and Thought awaited for the change towards Creation. Life was very powerful, but there was no order to define Life. As Entropy and Creation struggled, there was chaos. As Thoughts formed the Dreams, Energy was weaved into Matter, and the order of reality was thus established. Only pockets of this reality was formed between the wild chaos. Pathways or trods navigated the chaotic storms between these realities. In the beginning, Mystara was a small pocket of reality amongst the chaos and was formed by the Dreams of Immortals. There were no mortals as mortality could not be conceived at this time. The Immortals walked through all Time and realities and freely navigated the chaos. There were some that were confined to live within the Dreams of Immortals, and these people were known as the Fey. The Fey descended to Mystara to live amongst the Dreams. Here they could forge their own reality as they desire. In the beginning magic was very free and uncontrolled. Magic was unrestricted by the threads of reality. Surrounding the dreams of Mystara was the frenzy of chaos. Immortals and fey alike could wield magic to their every desire, and use it to define the very reality. Great care was needed to wield such magic. If every fey with their varying desires and passions formed their own separate reality, there would only chaos. Chaos would then destroy the very Dreams that made Mystara. Mystara would then be dissolved into oblivion. Immortals concerned with their Dream of Mystara had to take precautions. They could not permit the Fey to destroy Mystara with their passions and reckless usage of magic. The Immortals organized a group of Fey sworn to protect Mystara from the oblivion of Entropy. This group was to be named the Seelie. The Seelie roamed Mystara policing wild and irresponsible uses of magic. Where one Fey changed reality, the Seelie would alter and patch reality again so that it reverts to its original state. The benign nature of the Fey is to play freely without responsibility. There were those Fey that felt the Seelie were absurd for "cleaning" up after other Fey's use of magic. These Fey became determined to make a joke out of the Seelie, and sought to destroy the work of the Seelie all in the name of fun. These group of pranksters became more popular and more of a nuisance. As there numbers grew, the group of pranksters were titled Unseelie. Eventually the Immortals of Entropy took notice of the Unseelie's activities. The Immortals of Entropy decided to help organize some grand festivities with the ultimate goal of dissolving the workings of the Seelie Fey, and in turn threatening to erase Mystara from existence. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:22:03 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Seelie History (Part 1) Hey, i think that's a good background for the Seelie! Keep it coming! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #416 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, September 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 417 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) [MYSTARA] - Reconquest Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest [MYSTARA] - Thri Kreen (was Bigotry vs. Criticism) [MYSTARA] - About Synn Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:51:47 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) I have a general post (see below), but first a local question: Does anyone live in the New England area (MA, CT, RI, VT, NH, ME)? We can start planning for this February's Total Confusion if I can get a list of names. THE GENERAL POST: For anyone not in the Northeast United States, I would reiterate what I wrote a day ago. At that time, I put the wrong "SUBJECT" line on it, so I'll re-post it one last time: What if we asked area conventions for a room when they are planning theirs? In my area, northeastern U.S., there is a large convention called Total Confusion that I go to anyway. We could use this as a meeting-place for the mini-Mystara New England convention, and model others after similar concepts. This way, we wouldn't be making ridiculously extravagant plans (yes, I know... nothing too good for Mystara and her minions) and spending excessively large quantities of cash. Besides, I would expect that local conventions nationwide are waning and could use the insurgence of a setting-specific portion to help bolster their popularity or, at the very least, give those who already go to the conventions a little bit more reason to keep coming back. We can survive without a pool of players to draw from (what little we do), but it is (was?) far easier to continue to grow with new blood. While I'm on the topic of drawing new players, there is no reason why the Net-Almanac or that obscure "Estlor's Mystara NetBook" (if anyone ever formats the tables in it!) can't be used as the basic book of the setting. Couple either of those titles with Thibault's INCREDIBLE maps and we've got ourselves the rough equivalent of a "setting starter set." Yes, I know that the reason why Mystara succeded in the first place was the gradual, piece-by-piece assembly of setting bits into an eventual massive entirety. But new players of today don't have the luxury of the 100+ books necessary to fully glorify Mystara in the breadth and depth which it ought to be imparted. If we concede this one sacrifice and promote the setting out of a collosal single tome while advertising by conducting seminars, sessions, etc. at conventions, there just might be a snowball's chance in hell that we could rejuvinate Mystara. To the Sphere of Entropy with TSR/WOTC/HASBRO! We don't need them! This setting is alive today only because of our persistence. Can we branch out? WE ARE POISED TO "SELL" A PRODUCT WHICH IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ANY OF THE 99% FECULENCE WHICH TSR HAS ISSUED SINCE MYSTARA! PEOPLE BUY WHAT IS BEST! WE, THROUGH A QUALITY PRODUCT AND ENJOYABLE PROMOTION, CAN SALVAGE MYSTARA AND STOP KOW-TOWING TO TSR ALL IN ONE EPIC BLOW! And now, I'll step off of my pulpit. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:29:22 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) That's neat. Elves in my campaign go the other way though. I see a trend among some people to make elves into long-haired, hippy, peacenik, vegetarians. They seem to think that this fits elves, since elves live in forests. But in my own experience, the only long-haired, hippy, peacenik, vegetarians I know, are rich college students with too much time on their hands, who have never spent a night in the woods. Now, I say that partly to be funny, but also because I can shamefacedly admit to the same bias, when I wasn't thinking coherently enough about it. The true nature lovers, in my opinion and in my campaign, are those who hunt, fish, and live beneath the sky. So elves do hunt, elves do eat meat, and elves do chop down trees when needed. This doesn't mean they make systematic war on the trees. No, that would be orcs and goblins. But they make use of them when they need to. As for the subject of war, I consider it a bogus idea that elves would not be concerned with human politics. I believe that even dragons (save for their arrogance, NOT their long lives!) concern themselves with what sort of a human ruler lives nearby. After all, these things affect their health and livelihood. I don't see elven longevity as a good reason NOT to be interested in human affairs. Thyatis has existed for a little over an elven lifespan. Since a human generation is 20 years (Roughly 1/5 of a human lifespan) perhaps an elven generation is about 160 years. So Thyatis has been around for several elven generations. To say that Thyatis has not been around long enough for an elf to take notice, would be like Kosovo has not been independent long enough for an American to take notice. Yes, I do go along with elven absentmindedness. Rather, not so much absentmindedness, but that even matters of urgency have a "I'll get around to it" feel. So they do not necessarily make the greatest of allies in a pinch. Elves, like humans, certainly have an interest in who is driving the economy, the ecology, and matters of war. The emperor of Thyatis has an interest in attaining elven troops. As for Karameikos, we know that Duke Stephen has the Elven Guard (Callarii, if I'm not mistaken...) But if I was going to go with elves as being superior to humans, both in moral character, and in consistency of character, I might go with something similar to the code you've devised. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 12:16 PM Subject: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) > > >You mention the elves moral code. Could you expand on your thoughts about > >this code? :) > > The Vyalians have a strong code to protect life and nature. Some of their code includes the following: > > - Never act to kill life unless in self-defense. (1) > - Never give into hatred or anger, as that leads to the path of Entropy. > - Do not give into fear, as fear will destroy them. > - When two paths lead to the same result, choose the path of peace. > > (1) There are some that take this further. They add: > > - Always avoid to take life if possible. Defend oneself and others, but do not take offense. > > Many commonly agree with this, but they make exceptions for hunting game, and some are more devote vegatarians. Many also make an exception for forces of Entropy and forces that seek to destroy nature. Though they will not take direct offense, many will position themselves to that they are forced to defend themselves against destroyers of life and nature. > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:44:41 +0300 (EET DST) From: a122286@students.cc.tut.fi Subject: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest After long silence I thought to write something. Have been here all the time, jumping over the tons of flamewars, accusations, explanations and just bad netiquet. By the way, I will strongly oppose some things said about my beloved homeland Finland on this forum by some other natives. Please do visit the country to see the facts yourself. ~the text is a bit long, hope you dont mind. - -- X Pasi Anias X p.03 - 2533536 X \\|// X X Sammonkatu 8-10 G 62 X a122286@proffa X (o o) X X 33540 Tampere X .cc.tut.fi X o000--(_)--000o X Having enjoyed the late discussion about a war between Karameikos and Thyatis, I wrote up this open ended campaign to present my thoughts on the matter. As allways, its from my head, for my campaign, You should feel free to change anything to suit your taste, or just ignore if its impossible. If You like it, I wouldn't mind hearing that. The dates are for my campaign, You can easily put this anywhere from 1005-1025. Reconquest 1.5.1020 The mercenaries and peasant-troops start gathering in Machetos. 1.6.1020 Troops leave Machetos, heading to Rugalov Keep. 6.6.1020 Siege of Rugalov keep. With the help of a hired wizard, Armaur, and of the staff of the Blackpoint Citadel, Machetos invades Rugalov in one night. On the morning of 7th, new flag flies in the tower of Rugalov, the flag of Baron Armaur of Borderhold. 7.6.1020 Mercenaries belonging to the army of Machetos storm rugalov float and village, looting, raping and finally burning most of the village. Duke disagrees with the burning of the village, making Armaur burn the leader of the mercenaries. Within 2 days one tenth of the mercenaries flee the army. On the evening, Old King Karameikos gets message of the attack from Lord Viktor Lutescu, heir to Lord Vlad, who was slain in the battle. King calls a counsil to discuss the matter. 8.6.1020 Duke of Machetos sends emissaries to lady Marilenev and Chief Gro'tol of dymrak forest, promising titles and fiefs within the conquested Karameikos, for help in the war. Karameikos starts mustering troops, naming slightly unwilling Lord Justin Marshal and leader of the defence act. 10.6.1020 The treachery of Kelvin is revealed, as he denies messangers to north. 12.6.1020 Alfric Oderbry named Patriarch of Specularum and head of the church. 14.6.1020 The army attacks the Barony of Bach at the Lake of Lost Dreams. At the absence of the adventuring Baron, the barony is taken with ease. Baron Halaran jailed at Kelvin. 19.6.1020 The forces of Penhaligon and Treshold start attacs against Kelvin. 27.6.1020 The battle of Tears field, halfway between Krakatos and Rugalov. Both sides take heavy casulties and there is no clear victor. 1.7.1020 Caracallus is joined by a group of Kerendan nobles with some cavalry, hoping to earn some dominion in the duchy. Karameikos is joined by a small troupe of halfling bowmen, eager to help in the war, to keep Thyatis off their border. One half of the men in duke's Road keep join the Kelven front. The Magic school sends 30 of their students (levels 2-6) to aid Karameikos. PARTICIPANTS Duchy of Machetos The Duke of Machetos is the key figure in the scenario. Duke Caracallus Jowdynities is a nephew of late Callastian Jowdynities. In his youth Caracallus was a officer in the Thyatian Army, eventually raising to some fame in battles at Isle of Dread and then in battles against rebels at hinterlands. At his uncles death he elbowed, bribed and bought the duchy to his name. Using his strategic mind and leadership skills he got the duchy to its feet, paid the handsome dept he had to take to get the duchy, and even bought the title and post of General of the Blackpoint Citadel. On the process he had to use most of the natural recourses (wood) of his duchy. Duke Caracallus is a shrewd and power-hungry man. At his forties he is not yet satisfied with his achievements. He plans his plots carefully and puts them through efficiently. However he is not prone to self-deception or denial: at the need he will change his plans and act with speed to answer any new situations. The Duke has no wife nor legitimate children, but is a solitary figure, enjoying high arts, hunting and strategic planning more than home-life. At his death the most likely heirs would be his sister or one of the cousins. Empire of Thyatis The most important thing to note is, that this campaign is not war between Thyatis and Karameikos. In such a war, the Karameikos would surely have no chance whatsoever to keep independence. Should the Emperor want Karameikos, he would take it. As it is, the Emperor will not openly go to war against Karameikos. The trade between Thincol and Stefan Karameikos vas legitimite, and at the time wery good for both. The Emperor, let it be Thincol or Eusebius, could not break the contract without losing face, at least as long as Stefan was alive. Emperor Eusebius surely has plans, or at least options, for karameikos for the future, but only after Stefan is dead, and the word given to him counts no more. Duke Caracallus knows this of course. He also knows that there has been bad words with Thincol and Stefan, and that Eusebius has newer been close with Karameikos at all. Thus it is safe for him to assume, that should some minor noble clash steel with an unpopular neighbor, the Emperor would not likely intervene. The basic idea in Duke Caracallus's plan is to take Karameikos before the Emperor turns his eyes towards it, and as Karameikos is wery old, the time is now or never. County of Vyalia The count of Vyalia does not want to take part to the campaign. Count Yldysul Greenhight, an elf of over 500 summers, is above all, horrified of the prospect of having to fight with the Callarii elves of Karameikos. Under no condition will the count take part into a kins-slaying. Some younger elves, belonging mainly to Clan Treeshields, will however join the action, even if just as scouts and hunters for the army. Many human citizens of Vyalia join the expedition too, wishing for more land in Karameikos. The foresters will not join, being utterly loyal to the count and to the emperor. Barony of Kelvin Duke Caracallus knows, that his mercenary troops are not enough to fight an united Karameikos. Thus he needs allies. It has been commonly known for a long time, that Desmond Kelvin II has not been satisfied with his position in Karameikos. His ambitious and often fanatic nature has alienated him with the King, and with most of the society. Thus, when the Duke approached Kelvin, and offered him the County of Kelvin, consisting of all areas between the rivers Castellan and Windrush, the baron was taken. To fortify the union, the Duke has promised his sister to the baron as a wife, thus making Desmond one of possible heirs to the duchy too. The importance of this union is great beyond the 500 men garrison and the other forces Kelvin is able to muster. Fist of all, it cuts the Northern Karameikos of from the southern, keeping such forces as Penhaligon with her knights and Baron Sherlane Halaran with his sturdy mountaineers at bay. Secondly, it gives Duke Caracallus some more influence to the Church of Karameikos. Church of Karameikos The church of Karameikos is basicly an independent part of the Church of Thyatis.As such the church members find their loyalties in contradiction. Duke Caracallus has the blessing of the Thyatian Church at his side. He has even employed some clerics of Vanya to act as healers for his officers and troops. The more peaceful wing of the church dreads the economical and cultural effects of a war, rather liking King Stefans calmer ways to take care of the kingdom, and the enlightened monarchy of Karameikos. Then again, the more fanatic wing of the church sees the war as a way to get rid of the church of traladara, and to spread the influence of their church. After the peaceful death of Patriarch Oliver Jowett, opposition leader Alfric Oderbry has gained more and more favour within the church. As Patriarch Kelvin gets to Duke Caracalluses side, he gives his votes to Alfric, making him the Patriarch of Specularum, and acting head of the Church of Karameikos. In return, Kelvin is named the High Knight and commander of the Order of Griffon, thus taking Karameikos the only airforces he had. As the church moves strongly, even if never totally out of Karameikos hand, the threat of the invasion suddenly becomes a truly great one. Kingdom of Karameikos King Stefan is old and tired. Even if he has feared the invasion of Thyatian forces all these years, he still finds it hard to cope with. Especially as it comes from his old fief. Stefan is in no shape to fight the war himself, and so he is lessened to an advisor, waiting at home for any news of the war. The treachery of kelvin and the clergy gets him into rage, with no power to supress the mutiny. His only chance is to hold into his oldest allies and to the traladaran population, who mainly opposes the thyatian invasion wholeheartedly. Prince Justin is less than happy with his appointed charge as the Marshal of Karameikos. He would have hoped for his sister and lord Devon Hyraksos to handle the war, but The King is definite in his demand that the moral of the troops need an Karameikos to lead the war. Suprisingly the best support he gets comes from his brother Valen, who seems to know a lot about what's going on everywhere. Master Terari is also a great aid, and reveals a great deal of knowledge about common military strategies of thyatians and about the uses of magic in a war. Princess Adriana keeps away from the war as an protest against his father. Justin is forced to leave the western Karameikos open, and to take troops from the western forts to the war in the eastern front. He gains some extra troops from the Callarii, but they deny their help in the main war, only promising to defend their forest and the city of Specularum. The Gnomes of Highforge send vast amounts of weapons for the King in secrecy to be used in the war. Marilenev and the Traladaran nobles At Duke Caracalluses approach the old Matron Magda Marilenev kills the messanger and goes to the King to promise all the help she can offer to be used against the thyatians. This gesture, even if not so important in itself, raises the hope of King Stefan to be able to go through the war. He offers Lady Marilenev a rank of a knight, which she declines, telling him, that she will help in this war, but after that everything will go back to normal, as it has been.Marilenevs gesture doesn't go unnoticed with the other traladaran peoples either, who soon flock to Stefan, understanding, that the Kingdom of Karameikos will be infinitely better option to them, than the Grand Duchy of Machetos. The Church of Traladara also gives its total support to King Stefan, thus filling the hole left by the Karameikan clergy. The Thyatian nobles The treachery of Kelvin and the Church troubles the rest of the Karameikan- Thyatian nobility too. To most it poses an religious question, but to halaran and to Penhaligon it is an military threat too. Patriarch Sherlane Halaran tries to approach Kelvin, but is eventually jailed in Castle Kelvin. Sherlanes daughter and his husband join forces with Lady Arteris Penhaligons Knights of the Three Suns (no Flinn there. no) and wake war to Kelvin. Arteris sends for Duke's Road keep too, to get more troops. In south the Vorloi's collect a massive fleet and join Justin's navy. Orcs of Dymrak forest the orcs are far less numerous than Duke Caracallus thinks. Chief Gro'tol promises his help, but takes his tribes north to avoid the war. The tribes unite with some northern cousins, waking Havok along the Highreach. WHAT WILL FOLLOW I will not tell who will win. One or the other. You decide for your game. Both sides are rather even i think. Caracallus gets a good start, but is suprised by the loyalty of the traladaran nobles. Even if karameikos wins, the country might be heading for a civil war. The heir of the King is not named, and vill cause some critisism what ever it will be. The church is in trouble, should they go along the line set by Vanya (Kelvin and Oderbry), or rather hear the teachings of Tarastia (Halaran). Or rather choose a new leader amongst the other god's priests. The traladaran wont forget that it was them who saved Karameikos, which might give them new ideas. Etc. Then again if Caracallus wins, the traladaran peoples will not be handled kindly. Caracallus would need money to strengthen his precense, and he would get it from the natives. The thyatian nobles might find the new overlord not to their liking either. Personally, I think i'll continue the war for a year or two, then get some balance. But we will see. WHAT IF'S (Story Hooks) - - What if Armaur was actually Bargle? - - What if Sherlane Halaran was able to get through to Desmond Kelvin? - - What if Caracallus would die? - - What if Stefan would die? - - What if Justin would die? - - What if the count of vyalia was forced to take part, either by the orcs or Karameikan forces? - - What if the Orcs were a bigger force? The players could be (on either side): nobles, officers, soldiers, politics, emissaries, spies, assassins, traders, hunters, or just innocent victims. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:43:46 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) I am sure that my Vyalian brethren would assure you that we are not weak, nor are we any more concerned with human politics as you humans are concerned with elven politics. The Calarii are truly an honorable clan, yet also they are foolish. The humans have done little for us, save give us a chance in Alfheim, which we would have taken anyway when the need arose. If , for one second, you think that we are "hippies," (i think is the human term for it) then you shall be sadly mistaken. If anything, we mirror the "native american" way of life once adopted among several human clans. We get only what we need, never more, and we get it only when we need it, never before. It's simple that way, and we have been living that way for several thousand years. Violating the bond we have made with Nature is far above and beyond anything we are willing to do. We do not take from the land what we need, the land gives to us its excess. The only case in which I personally could conceive of fighting in the name of humans, would be if an Entropic form attacked my people, and humans were there to help, but even then, I would be fighting in the name of Nature, not humans. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:47:00 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest sounds like a winner! send me some more if you've got them! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:57:37 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thri Kreen (was Bigotry vs. Criticism) Actually, the Thri Kreen (mantis warrior) was part of the Forgotten Realms monster compandium, even before Dark Sun came up. I usually do not like new monsters from the MCs (and no, this had nothing to do with the D&D-AD&D flamewarthread) byt I did like the Thri Kreen alot. it had lots of potential for Mystara. I once made a list of different races in "my" Mystara. And I placed lots of Thri Kreens in Skothar. I think Thri Kreen cam work great in Mystara, but as always, changes should be made for whatever society you want them to have. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:37:10 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - About Synn Hi again! Has any of you ever found a bit puzzling the fact that a Greater Night Dragon like Synn, who in her TRUE DRAGON FORM (which is supposed to the most powerful form) could normally cast five 1st lvl wizard spells, five 2nd lvl spells, four 3rd lvl spells, three 4th lvl spells and two 5th lvl spells, then polymorphs into a human and can cast (guess what?) spells as a 36th level MAGE??? Where the heck come this power from? Is Synn a sort of Immortal or what? have other Greater Night Dragons the same ability (for it's not written in the monster entry in Champions of Mystara..) Thanx for paying attention. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:01:39 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn > Has any of you ever found a bit puzzling the fact that a Greater Night > Dragon like Synn, who in her TRUE DRAGON FORM (which is supposed to the > most powerful form) could normally cast five 1st lvl wizard spells, five > 2nd lvl spells, four 3rd lvl spells, three 4th lvl spells and two 5th lvl > spells, then polymorphs into a human and can cast (guess what?) spells as a > 36th level MAGE??? You just said the important word - polymorphs. She can't cast as a 36th level mage. She pretends to, and everyone thinks that she's some powerful wizard, but she isn't, she's just a polymorphed dragon with a ego-complex :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:18:25 -0300 From: Victor Caminha Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn At 00:37 24/09/99 +0200, you wrote: >Hi again! > Hi Marco :) >Has any of you ever found a bit puzzling the fact that a Greater Night >Dragon like Synn, who in her TRUE DRAGON FORM (which is supposed to the >most powerful form) could normally cast five 1st lvl wizard spells, five >2nd lvl spells, four 3rd lvl spells, three 4th lvl spells and two 5th lvl >spells, then polymorphs into a human and can cast (guess what?) spells as a >36th level MAGE??? > >Where the heck come this power from? Is Synn a sort of Immortal or what? >have other Greater Night Dragons the same ability (for it's not written in >the monster entry in Champions of Mystara..) > IMC, where Synn is the Ultimate Nemesis of the PC (its an one-to-one this campaign) i decided to accept the 36th magic-user statistics (i am thinking in doubling her hp when she assumes the Dragon form only..) as it was described that Synn was a near-immortal entropic draconic being. I also (IMC, again) credit she is the queen of all night dragons of Mystara. So i disregard the spell list given and use instead a 36th MU table (one of the little tricks Synn have done was the time warping of Princess Ark to the future, so i think she deserves a better stat). Adding to this i decided to imput on her a) A resistance to sunlight in Dolores Form and b) a degree of Anti-magic (just some creatures of M3 have) against mortal-magic only, which she normally supresses as this could be downright disastrous to her ID in Glantri. []s Victor Caminha ps: i do not remember/know about the origin of the Night Dragons. IMC i decided that all began when Synn (a powerful red dragon) fell to the corruption of Atzanteotl, renegating her patrons ( The dragon Rulers) and embracing the entropy. After that, she "evoluted" to Night Dragon and all her descendants carried this corruption. Of course, all dragonkind considers these traitors as the vilest creatures. Any comments? "Receive the bounty of your hero's deed Tainting thy life by the gift of the dead Eternally running from a priestly bead Unable to bear the Orb in your head You'll walk in the darkness so alluring Without Hope to cleanse your sin Away from the joy of the living Forever to serve your Twin" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:50:37 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest I liked this idea a lot. While I'm not quite convinced by your assertion that Eusebius would lose too much face if he attacked Karameikos before Stefan's death, I think it makes things much more balanced. Personally, I disagree with your characterization of Ladies Marilinev and Arteris, but, again, I can see that it is necessary for balance. Personally, my greatest reluctance toward using this scenario is that it makes the Thyatians (yet again) into the corrupt, abusive villains. IMC I'd rather give Eusebius a chance to use guile to justify his occupation of Karameikos as necessary to establish peace, but I can understand the attraction of a more balanced campaign. Another idea your posting gave me: Stefan, by this time, is an old man. He's always had a penchant for self-delusion, so perhaps as Thyatis or Machetos attacks, he would slip into complete dotage. He would firmly insist that "Thincol would never attack the Grand Duchy" and ask "Mirros? Where's Mirros?" when told that the Thyatians were laying siege to Mirros. Ah well, I'm sure that idea won't be terribly popular, but I never particularly liked Stefan much anyway. To each his Karameikos... (I just realized that that fits perfecctly the song "To each his Dulcinea," perhaps it's all this talk of crazy old men ;~) ) Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:57:17 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest In a message dated 9/23/99 6:52:51 PM, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: << Personally, my greatest reluctance toward using this scenario is that it makes the Thyatians (yet again) into the corrupt, abusive villains>> the dirty Thyatians are corrupt, abusive villains! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:15:24 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Has this idea been kicked around before? I need an idea to base my Vulcalian States (The Snartan's enemy) around, and pre-Tsarist Russia seems a good choice. Any ideas? Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:20:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Mystara-Con(?) (Was Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention) - --- Kevin Powers wrote: > For anyone not in the Northeast United States, > I would reiterate what I > wrote a day ago. At that time, I put the wrong > "SUBJECT" line on it, so > I'll re-post it one last time: > > What if we asked area conventions for a room when > they are planning > theirs? > Great idea, Kevin. Sorry, I meant to respond earlier. But yeah, I think that's definitely something to consider. The more areas we can infiltrate... > While I'm on the topic of drawing new players, > there is no reason why > the Net-Almanac or that obscure "Estlor's Mystara > NetBook" (if anyone > ever formats the tables in it!) can't be used as the > basic book of the > setting. Couple either of those titles with > Thibault's INCREDIBLE maps > and we've got ourselves the rough equivalent of a > "setting starter > set." Yes, I know that the reason why Mystara > Also a great idea. Unfortunately, that might run into copyright issues. I'm not a lawyer or anything, so I can't really say for sure - I just think it's something we all need to be aware of. Maybe someone out here on the MML knows for sure... > eventual massive entirety. But new players of today > don't have the > luxury of the 100+ books necessary to fully glorify > Mystara in the > breadth and depth which it ought to be imparted. If > we concede this one > sacrifice and promote the setting out of a collosal > single tome while > advertising by conducting seminars, sessions, etc. > at conventions, there > just might be a snowball's chance in hell that we > could rejuvinate > Mystara. > It would be really cool if we all could pull something like that off. Pretty ambitious... but well worth it, I'd say. > To the Sphere of Entropy with TSR/WOTC/HASBRO! We > don't need them! > I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I certainly can sympathize with anyone who feels that way. We Mystarans have become orphaned children out here... > This setting is alive today only because of our > persistence. Can we > branch out? WE ARE POISED TO "SELL" A PRODUCT WHICH > IS FAR SUPERIOR TO > ANY OF THE 99% FECULENCE WHICH TSR HAS ISSUED SINCE > MYSTARA! PEOPLE BUY > WHAT IS BEST! WE, THROUGH A QUALITY PRODUCT AND > ENJOYABLE PROMOTION, > CAN SALVAGE MYSTARA AND STOP KOW-TOWING TO TSR ALL > IN ONE EPIC BLOW! > Once again, we need to be aware of copyright issues. I know some people have the attitude that since it's OOP that it's fair game. I certainly wouldn't tell people what to do, but I do think everyone should be aware of the ramifications. As unfair as it may be, TSR/Wizards/Hasbro unfortunately still retains the copyrights (read: commercial rights) to Mystara in the eyes of the law. > And now, I'll step off of my pulpit. > That's OK, Kevin. Speak your mind... that's the purpose here (at least that's my impression). auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:24:45 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County In a message dated 1999-09-22 21:30:41 Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > Both sides have this understanding, and both sides do not press the issue to > avoid uneeded confrontation. > > The Vyalians do however patrol the forests and trade with humans. This > increases the economy of Thyatis in general. It also allows Thyatis to > retain less troops to patrol and guard Thyatis, and the Vyalians will do this > for Thyatis. These valuable troops can be re-deployed elsewhere. > > I think this is sensible. Do people still think the Vyalians would kill/ > sacrifice their lives for human affairs? There is one other service that Vyalia elves provide for Thyatis, and it is one that is very significant militarily: They train humans to become fighter/mages ("Foresters") with most of the abilities of elven fighter/mages. This training, even with strings attached, is a great deal for the Thyatians, and they are certainly not going to do anything to mess it up. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #417 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, September 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 418 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities Re: [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:24:47 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient In a message dated 1999-09-22 23:14:05 Eastern Daylight Time, megst19+@pitt.edu writes: > What about M-Mesoamericans? > Are the Atraughins the sole surviving descendants of the Azcans? Davania is a pretty big continent -- surely there is room for a few dozen Mesoamerican cultures down there? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:35:07 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? >Has this idea been kicked around before? I need an idea to base my Vulcalian >States (The Snartan's enemy) around, and pre-Tsarist Russia seems a good >choice. Any ideas? > Well, Adrian Mattias already has done some extensive work on Zuyevo (Medieval M-Russia), which is located along the Yalu River on Brun. In fact, he is almost ready to send it to the MML, so maybe you could discuss it with him beforehand... Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:12:58 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Reconquest > In a message dated 9/23/99 6:52:51 PM, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: > > << Personally, my greatest > reluctance toward using this scenario is that it makes the Thyatians (yet > again) into the corrupt, abusive villains>> Of course, there is one interesting twist that cannot be ruled out -- Machetos really botches their invasion and makes a lot of enemies for themselves and Thyatis -- to the point that the only option left to the emperor is to intervene on the Karameikan side! It is after Thyatis and Karameikos negotiate peace terms that things REALLY get interesting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:20:54 +0800 From: "Francisco Navarro" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn Where does her power come from? It's them Fenswick crumpets she keeps on taking at tea time, I'd say! :) Hweh-hweh-hweh! Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph - ----- Original Message ----- From: SteelAngel To: Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:01 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About Synn > > > Has any of you ever found a bit puzzling the fact that a Greater Night > > Dragon like Synn, who in her TRUE DRAGON FORM (which is supposed to the > > most powerful form) could normally cast five 1st lvl wizard spells, five > > 2nd lvl spells, four 3rd lvl spells, three 4th lvl spells and two 5th lvl > > spells, then polymorphs into a human and can cast (guess what?) spells as > a > > 36th level MAGE??? > > You just said the important word - polymorphs. She can't cast as a 36th > level mage. She pretends to, and everyone thinks that she's some powerful > wizard, but she isn't, she's just a polymorphed dragon with a ego-complex :) > > Ethan > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:13:13 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... Hey gang! I just wanted to tell all of you that I am working on making a new Mystara site. As I don't know s$!t about how to make a web site, I convinced a couple of freinds to work for me (sockers!). So what will be on this new site you ask? I have a lot planned. It will probably gain speed when Ill get out of the army in a month or so. Here is some stuff I think the site will contain- 1. Several articles I made on different subjects, some of them already posted to the list. 2. A full Glantrian Nobles spell book (from previous posts and more). 3. A totaly new Mini Gazeteer dealing with Deepreach, the underwater gnome city. This is well in progress- I already done general info, new monsters, new tech, new race, and there will be lots of other surprises. (like a new kind of social structure, never seen on Mystara before!). 4. Elaborations on several NPCs (I already stated with prince Morphail, don't be so surprised...) 5. New ieas about Clerics, Humanoids, and other stuff. 6. The Ambassador Project (this already exists in Greg Weatherup's page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/ambassadors/index.html). The project is kind of in a stand still. But maybe Ill work on it more when I have the time. 7.possibly- another Mini-Gaz, inspired by Jenn's wonderful Belcadiz gaz (which I helped to enrich), detailing Boldavia. If any of you have ideas for these subjects, or if you already covered these by your own, I would like to hear about it. May your nights be dark and cold... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:00:12 PDT From: "adrian mattias" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? The Empire of Zuyevo will be ready shortly for your reading (and viewing) pleasure. Christian and I have been working on detailing the Yalu River region. The maps are almost ready (thanks to Christian) and mini-gazeteers have been prepared for Zuyevo (based on 16th-18th Century Russia). Christian is also writing one for the Yezchamenid Empire (based on Persia). This should be posted very shortly - if anyone wants info before this - feel free to e-mail me privately. Adrian Mattias >From: "Christian Constantin" >Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com >To: >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:35:07 -0400 > > > > >Has this idea been kicked around before? I need an idea to base my >Vulcalian > >States (The Snartan's enemy) around, and pre-Tsarist Russia seems a good > >choice. Any ideas? > > >Well, Adrian Mattias already has done some extensive work on Zuyevo >(Medieval M-Russia), which is located along the Yalu River on Brun. In >fact, >he is almost ready to send it to the MML, so maybe you could discuss it >with >him beforehand... >Christian "Krieg!" Constantin > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:46:54 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, àéìï ùçí wrote: > Hey gang! > > I just wanted to tell all of you that I am working on making a new > Mystara site. As I don't know s$!t about how to make a web site, I > convinced a couple of freinds to work for me (sockers!). So what will > be on this new site you ask? I have a lot planned. It will probably > gain speed when Ill get out of the army in a month or so. Here is some > stuff I think the site will contain- Hi Ohad, This sounds very interesting. Especially the gazetteer part. Keep up the good work and keep us informed when the thing is ready. Oh by the way, constructing a website isn't all that difficult. Depends on how fancy you want it ofcourse, but i'd encourage you to look into it. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:49:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, SteelAngel wrote: > Has this idea been kicked around before? I need an idea to base my Vulcalian > States (The Snartan's enemy) around, and pre-Tsarist Russia seems a good > choice. Any ideas? Pre-Tsarist? Why? Doesnt things get much more interesting after the Tsardom is established? If youre gonna do anything M-Russia-ish, I suggest picking up a copy of GURPS russia. I dont have the book myself, but I've been told that its an excellent source for running a fantasy campaign in a russian mileau. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:01:51 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, adrian mattias wrote: > The Empire of Zuyevo will be ready shortly for your reading (and viewing) > pleasure. Christian and I have been working on detailing the Yalu River > region. The maps are almost ready (thanks to Christian) and mini-gazeteers > have been prepared for Zuyevo (based on 16th-18th Century Russia). Christian > is also writing one for the Yezchamenid Empire (based on Persia). This > should be posted very shortly - if anyone wants info before this - feel free > to e-mail me privately. Looking forward to seeing it. For some reason I dont see a russian culture along the yalu as especially locial. But hey, this is Mystara so I guess anything goes :) Maps are a definitive bonus too. By Christian, I assume you mean Christian Constantine? If so I really liked his black and white historican maps of Hule. Any chance of seeing some of these for the Yalu region? Keep up the good work :) Haavard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:08:41 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: Vyalian Code (was Re: [MYSTARA] - Vyalian County) On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Mr. Darknerd wrote: > > >You mention the elves moral code. Could you expand on your thoughts about > >this code? :) > > The Vyalians have a strong code to protect life and nature. Some of > their code includes the following: > > - Never act to kill life unless in self-defense. (1) > - Never give into hatred or anger, as that leads to the path of Entropy. Star Wars-ish! Thats a good thing :) > - Do not give into fear, as fear will destroy them. > - When two paths lead to the same result, choose the path of peace. > (1) There are some that take this further. They add: > > - Always avoid to take life if possible. Defend oneself and others, > but do not take offense. > > Many commonly agree with this, but they make exceptions for hunting > game, and some are more devote vegatarians. Many also make an > exception for forces of Entropy and forces that seek to destroy > nature. Though they will not take direct offense, many will position > themselves to that they are forced to defend themselves against > destroyers of life and nature. Why would humans be treated differently from animals? Maybe its just me reading too much ElfQuest. "no Elf must die", that was the basis of Cutters ideology. Too bad it didnt apply to humans... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:39:39 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Political maps? On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, John Hofmann wrote: > to figure out how to do it), which is bad because I'm very fond of > Gazateer style maps. I dont really see the need for all Mystara maps to be on the gaz style. They tend to get a bit messy, and I'd love to see some alternatives. > But my point is, someone with CC2 could make a good Mystara map. And you're volunteering? ;) Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:39:53 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >> Perhaps, we're >> taking things a bit too fast, as the KW took 15 years >> to develop, so we shouldn't feel the need to try to >> fill up *all* of Mystara's blank spaces at one time, >> necessarily (this could apply to the Davania project >> too). Mischa responded >Yep. We've been working ?4? years and have many more to go. I mean, the >Cynidicea project itself has been going on for years IIRC :) Well, I can speak for the Davania Team in saying that we're nowhere near filling up all of Davania - nor do we have a desire to develop all of it. Every member has a little project they're working on, and in most cases the Davania cultures we have developed cover defined areas (and often these areas are not contiguous - lots of intervening "no man's land" for adventures and DM fiat to fill up. As for Cynidicea - yes, it's taking a long time (1 1/2 years so far! woohoo! Maybe I should secure government funding and turn it into one of those multi-year expnditures that no one knows much about, yet always seems vitally important so no one questions the millions of dollars that are being spent on it.. 8-P), but there *is* a light at the end of the tunnel, and it *should* (pray pray pray) be done before long. It's just that one project that gets shifted aside when Almanac and university-related work come along. Anyhow, I'll just quietly announce it when it's done... Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:53:49 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >In a message dated 1999-09-22 23:14:05 Eastern Daylight Time, >megst19+@pitt.edu writes: >> What about M-Mesoamericans? >> Are the Atraughins the sole surviving descendants of the Azcans? KaviyD wrote: >Davania is a pretty big continent -- surely there is room for a few dozen >Mesoamerican cultures down there? Certainly! You could put twice that number down there, and have plenty of room for other things! Just because we (the Davania Team) don't write about it, it doesn't mean it can't exist down there. We aren't trying to be the sole authority on the region; anyone can take and morph our ideas as they wish. :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:27:01 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention In a message dated 22/09/99 23:11:56 GMT Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > "fabulously-talented map-makers" > hum thanks very much Carl. > > thib Credit where credit is due, Thib! Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:27:07 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - a new mailing list for the french spoking guys In a message dated 23/09/99 00:29:09 GMT Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > And as someone asked why i joined the mml, i answer: > i don't play d&d anymore, because my old players are all gone living > their lives. But i am so keen on Mystara that i wanted to be a part of > its combat to stay alive. I couldn't have said it better myself. In any language. ;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:27:14 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [MYSTARA] Chronomancy and Alternate Realities In a message dated 23/09/99 01:21:48 GMT Daylight Time, fanavarro@pacific.net.ph writes: > --I need to know, does Princess Dolores put one lump or two in her tea? And > what does she put in them crumpets. Well, considering her true nature, I'm reminded of the lines from "Jack and the Beanstalk":- "be he alive, or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread." Eeeurrgh....think I'll send my regrets to Dolores next time.....;-)) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:13:10 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Coming soon to a PC near you... If you need some maps to illustrate your site , just ask. if you are not familaiar with the html code ( like myself) use frontpage 98.it works just like word but with enhenced capabilities all oriented to make a web site.If you have questions, mail privately. thib. =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= a écrit: > Hey gang! > > I just wanted to tell all of you that I am working on making a new Mystara site. As I don't know s$!t about how to make a web site, I convinced a couple of freinds to work for me (sockers!). > So what will be on this new site you ask? > I have a lot planned. It will probably gain speed when Ill get out of the army in a month or so. > Here is some stuff I think the site will contain- > > 1. Several articles I made on different subjects, some of them already posted to the list. > 2. A full Glantrian Nobles spell book (from previous posts and more). > 3. A totaly new Mini Gazeteer dealing with Deepreach, the underwater gnome city. This is well in progress- I already done general info, new monsters, new tech, new race, and there will be lots of other surprises. (like a new kind of social structure, never seen on Mystara before!). > 4. Elaborations on several NPCs (I already stated with prince Morphail, don't be so surprised...) > 5. New ieas about Clerics, Humanoids, and other stuff. > 6. The Ambassador Project (this already exists in Greg Weatherup's page http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/ambassadors/index.html). The project is kind of in a stand still. But maybe Ill work on it more when I have the time. > 7.possibly- another Mini-Gaz, inspired by Jenn's wonderful Belcadiz gaz (which I helped to enrich), detailing Boldavia. > > If any of you have ideas for these subjects, or if you already covered these by your own, I would like to hear about it. > > May your nights be dark and cold... > Morphail (Ohad Shaham) > "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:07:35 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Maps of Mystara and D&D convention In a message dated 23/09/99 05:02:41 GMT Daylight Time, gf691805@er.uqam.ca writes: > [Snap, Snap, Snap, said the volley of arrows] Jamuga!! Haven't your horsemen learnt not to "shoot first, reanimate later" yet? Carl Q (still with occasional zombie fingers...;-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:11:51 EDT From: GlobalFrog@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient In a message dated 9/24/99 10:41:28 AM Mountain Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: << As for Cynidicea - yes, it's taking a long time (1 1/2 years so far! woohoo! Maybe I should secure government funding and turn it into one of those multi-year expnditures that no one knows much about, yet always seems vitally important so no one questions the millions of dollars that are being spent on it.. 8-P), but there *is* a light at the end of the tunnel, and it *should* (pray pray pray) be done before long. It's just that one project that gets shifted aside when Almanac and university-related work come along. Anyhow, I'll just quietly announce it when it's done... Geoff >> Hey...can I help it that my wife is having a baby so I can't work on the new Apothecary class for Cynidicea right at this moment? ;) froggy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:33:55 PDT From: gwxup@excite.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Play by email? And WotI Hello, I'm very far behind on the digests but I wanted to reply to this one. If something has happened in one of the newer digests I apologize. I have been running an email game for a while now. It has many pro's and con's. I think its better for the players but harder for the DM. My group, I'm still trying to figure stuff out. They just finished their second combat encounter and I did both in different formats, one was story line/descriptive, and the other was detailed/time-stamped. I just sent a message asking which they prefered. You can see the outdated page (including the transcript) for the campaign at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html but keep in mind that it hasn't been updated in nearly two months as college and work permits me only enough time to run it and not to keep the webpage updated. If you'd be interested in joining, I'm looking for someone to play minor characters. Or you could lurk (that way my players will think that that misterious email addy is a person controlling one of the players.) Ya interested? (if so email me privately, see below for addy) One note of warning though, the campaign is set after WotI in AC1011 so both the transcript and the webpage have WotI spoilers. Greg Weatherup aka "Gecko" GWxup@excite.com <- my primary email which has been having problems lately so please cc any private messages to...... -> Gecko_G@xoommail.com http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:51:55 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? > The Empire of Zuyevo will be ready shortly for your reading (and viewing) > pleasure. Christian and I have been working on detailing the Yalu River > region. The maps are almost ready (thanks to Christian) and mini-gazeteers > have been prepared for Zuyevo (based on 16th-18th Century Russia). Christian > is also writing one for the Yezchamenid Empire (based on Persia). This > should be posted very shortly - if anyone wants info before this - feel free > to e-mail me privately. Ahh good :) My M-Russia predates that by a while (About 10th century!) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:53:36 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - M-Russia? > > Has this idea been kicked around before? I need an idea to base my Vulcalian > > States (The Snartan's enemy) around, and pre-Tsarist Russia seems a good > > choice. Any ideas? Pre-Tsarist isn't any more interesting, but I want to deal with the mythologies - Father Winter, Baba Yaga, etc. Plus, there is a STRONG eastern european flavor also, so it's more of a hodgepodge of Slavic cultures. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:40:52 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient >Hey...can I help it that my wife is having a baby so I can't work on the new >Apothecary class for Cynidicea right at this moment? ;) > >froggy Ohhh, alright! I suppose *that* is an acceptable excuse...this time! A note to all other MMLers who work under me on various projects - death is no excuse for missing a deadline, unless you provide me with at least 3 weeks' notice.* :-) Geoff *This goes for you, too, zombie Carl - undeath is no excuse for decreased productivity. I don't care if your fingers fall off when you type out your documents - production quotas must be met! :-) - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #418 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.