mystara-digest Sunday, October 24 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 455 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara's Flavor Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? RE: [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price Re: [MYSTARA] - Thib's Maps Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals to Gods? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines RE: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 00:26:28 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara's Flavor One idea for dealing with some of the arbitrary limitations of Mystara (such as all elves being spellcasters and no non-gold metallic dragons) is to treat them as peculiarities of the "Known World" region of southeastern Brun, with exceptions possible in regions remote from that area. Thus, Mystara may well have silver or bronze dragons, but they are not found in south- eastern Brun, which already has a full dragon population that does not include them. Similarly, Alfheim and the other elven cultures of the Known World do indeed train all of their children in magic and thus ensure that they are all multi-classed mages -- but we already know of elves in the Hollow World and along the Savage Coast who are not mages. I would suggest that the various cultures of Mystara impose rather rigid restrictions on character types available at 1st level -- but that once these adventurers leave home, all bets are off as to how they may develop. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 02:47:08 -0500 (CDT) From: CronoCloud@webtv.net (Ron Rogers) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Until it is released, the 3rd edition is vaporware. Once it is released I can judge how well Mystara will work with the system. Any time a setting is converted to a different rules system some flavor is lost. For example, I could convert the Realms to OD&D, but it would not be the same. I reserve judgement on the 3rd edition until it is actually on the shelves. Does that make me narrow minded or just cautious. And as I said, I currently play in a 2nd edition campaign. Besides if we want new players, then TSR/WoTC/Hasbro has to do their part too by aggressively going after the mass market. They need to get their products in every K-Mart/ Wal-Mart/small town bookstores in the nation. I simply can't buy TSR products in my hometown. And they have to be sensitive to price issues, right now RPG's are mostly an upper middle class/upper class hobby. One of the great things about OD&D/Mystara was the fact that you got more bang for your buck since the supplements were less expensive. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 01:04:23 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price Greetings. Not to get off the Third Edition brohaha going on and all, but did the module B10: Night's Dark Horrors, come with a loose insert and counters of some kind? I spent an unthinkable amount of money getting a lot of old OD&D materials today (Including BOTH Trail Maps!) and he wanted $40 for the darn thing, but then he claimed they came with some kind of counters. I didn't think so, there were no notes in the byline about them, and upon investigation I also discovered that a page with very important maps (which is why you would buy the module in the first place, really) was missing, called the 'loose insert'. Anyone help me out here? He wouldn't even sell it to me, unfortunately, he wants to complete it first. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" P.S. Does anyone know any place on the net someone's posted digitized pics from the 1st edition of B3, the one they recalled and destroyed as many as possible of? Frankly, I'm just curious to see what the big deal was about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 04:10:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara In a message dated 1999-10-24 03:47:37 Eastern Daylight Time, CronoCloud@webtv.net writes: > Until it is released, the 3rd edition is vaporware. Once it is released > I can judge how well Mystara will work with the system. A product is "vaporware" if we have no reasonable assurance that it will be released on schedule. That is not true of 3E -- we have heard from the playtesters that an actual manuscript of the rules does exist, and we have no reason to believe that Wizards will fail to meet their August 2000 release date. Furthermore, they have released a surprising amount of information about what they are planning -- certainly far more than we ever saw of the 2d edition rules prior to their release. We already know in broad outline what the most significant changes to the game will be -- it is the details of those changes that will remain unknown to us until the actual rules are published next summer. Between now and then we should, I hope, find out enough previously unknown tidbits to help us with the conversion process. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 10:24:54 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Lurking since a lot of time... ok, you got my attention. And I will drop my 0.02$ into the discussion. I don't think Bruce Heard was asking you to be _forced_ to write anything new in the 3E format. And if he did, he's wrong, 'cos most old contributors won't spend their money in upgrading their rule set. But he got a serious point in the fact that we can't ask newbie (if there is any such thing in Mystara right now) to find an old copy of the RC. The alternative is that we keep going this way: most writing their stuff in the OD&D format, someone in the AD&D, and someone in the new 3E. Which surely will be, for anyone is free to contribute in any way he likes. But the idea of gathering many contributors in one only language is certainly useful. I am an old fan of OD&D system. I am boringly trying to stick to 'canon' as far as I can, and I guess I could be considered one of the less 'open' to new ideas in the whole list. :) Still, what I dislike -more than being forced to learn a new game system- is a poor convertion of a good game to a new system. AD&D Mystara is the main reason why most of the Mystara players dislikes AD&D. A poor convertion, so badly written that it is easy to give the fault to the new set of rules. I completely agree that the flavor of Mystara is in the world, and not in the rules. But I see the danger of changing the world by changing the rules. Honestly, I really don't think that the OD&D and the AD&D Glantri are the same country, just with different rules. And I think that this is the main 'communication problem' between people using different system - -not the fact that AC 9 in D&D is AC 10 in Advanced. For instance: 3E will make any class available to any race. Try to imagine the presence of dwarf wizards in Mystara, and their impact on the culture. There is a good reason in Mystara why dwarves cannot be wizard -this is a point where 3E rules should be adapted to Mystara. Psionic is another point. And I guess, in the hundreds of spells that come out, not all of them could be available in Mystara -just because they WILL change the flavor. 3E -like AD&D- will be a generic set of rules. WoTC will never write a 3E guide of Mystara, and I guess that if someone will write it, will be surely on the MMl or MMB. And I am not thinking just to an easy stats converter from OD&D to 3E and viceversa, but of the obvious limitations that you have to introduce (and may be special rules) when applying a set of rules to any specific setting. Not all the classes/races will be available, some with special limitations. Not all the spells. The cosmology will be different. The immortal thing will be different. It is a large amount of work, that certainly need lot of playtesting. I recently changed town, and find myself again with some spare time. So, if there is people willing to try to write a joint "3E convertion rule to Mystara" - I could agree in changing the rule setting at my home to playtest for a while. But to be more to the point: we have to wait the 3E official exit, or there is something on the 3E pages -which I haven';t checked still- that can be used right now? Ok, I guess it's enough rambling, - -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:00:46 +0200 From: Caroletti Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? I've read a lot of messages about the D&D, AD&D and 3E problem, and I would like to say a word or two about the thing. (I apologize if my English is not perfect, I'm Italian and this is my first posting to the list). I think that there is basically no need for a unifying system for Mystara, and that because of the TSR/WotC commercial policy. In 1973 D&D was born; in 1977 AD&D came out, then it was AD&D 2nd edition (1986?), then the additional rules of Player's Option (1995), and next year 3E (2000). In 2004 there will be Advanced 3E, in 2009 4E, in 2013 5E, if there will ever be people to play role games and the WotC will still exist. It is not important what sort of rules we use for the game, especially because the thing that keeps alive a gaming world is FANTASY & IMAGINATION, not rules. Rolemaster is the most realistic game system in the world, nut it is impossible to play. If you take a look at Shawn's site, or at Marco Dalmonte's, you can see that most of the material is made of maps, historical references, geographical notes, adventure ideas, that are beyond the rules problem. So use whatever system you want, and don't lose your time thinking what system you want to use. Me and my Mystara players have developed an alternative Dungeons and Dragons system that contains rules taken from all the different game system for D&D...and we enjoy it very well, even if it not WotC official, or if it is not Mystara ML official. By the way, I think that the only way to attract new players is to play with new people- because no one will ever search for the Mystara pages or subscribe to this list without knowing anything of Mystara- and this problem won't be solved by adapting continually to the new rules TSR/WotC will produce in the future. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 09:33:10 -0400 From: "Simon B. Sinister" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price Ironwolf asked "did the module B10: Night's Dark Horrors, come with a loose insert and counters of some kind?" It does come with a sheet of counters, mostly goblins, wolves, horses and such. There's also a folder full of maps (the "inner folder" listed in the contents), and a double-sided fold-out map (the "loose insert" that's also listed in the contents) too. I hope this helps.. - ----------------- SIMON B. SINISTER - ----------------- http://members.home.net/simonbsinister/trod.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 18:24:59 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? Shane Henry wrote: [...] >However, > when stats *are* included in fan material, I think > *any* rules system will remain acceptable (including > GURPS, Rolemaster, etc.), but, if the fan-writer has > access to (ie. owns) 3E rulebooks, then IMO D&D3E > would be the best rules to use, ideally with OD&D > parallel stats. If the writer *doesn't* have access to > 3E books (chooses to remain a OD&D purist for whatever > reason -- preference, bugetary restraints, etc.), then > purely OD&D stats would be fine, of course. (On a side > note, I don't think anyone will miss AD&D2E Mystara, > but 2E would still be acceptable too.) > I, for one, play Mystara with AD&D2 rules, and I will probably stick with that, since I don't see any real improvement in D&D3. However, if a standard is needed, it should be easy to convert to the other systems. Now, OD&D and AD&D2 are quite similar. The only major difference is the class/race system. Converting OD&D classes to AD&D2 class/race(/kit) combinations isn't that easy, since an OD&D demihuman cannot be simply transformed into a fighter or fighter/mage, ignoring the other AD&D2 classes. OTOH, an AD&D2 race/class combination can be easily converted to OD&D race (with appropriate skills, if necessary). The same probably applies to D&D3, which should have more combinations than even AD&D2. So, on a complexity ranking, D&D3 seems the better candidate for the "standard" position. Since I do not know much more about D&D3, I'm not going to compare other issues like spell format or skill/proficiency system now, but I think that similar considerations could apply for these as well. - -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:07:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - B10 Contents and Price - --- IronWolf wrote: > Greetings. > > Not to get off the Third Edition brohaha going on > and all, > but did the module B10: Night's Dark Horrors, come > with a > loose insert and counters of some kind? I spent an > unthinkable amount of money getting a lot of old > OD&D > materials today (Including BOTH Trail Maps!) and he > wanted > $40 for the darn thing, but then he claimed they > came with > some kind of counters. I didn't think so, there were > no > notes in the byline about them, and upon > investigation I > also discovered that a page with very important maps > (which > is why you would buy the module in the first place, > really) > was missing, called the 'loose insert'. Anyone help > me out > here? He wouldn't even sell it to me, unfortunately, > he > wants to complete it first. > Yes, the original product included counters. When I bought my copy it didn't have them but was otherwise complete. There are actually 3 inserts(aside from counters) that should be included: a huge 2-sided fold-out map sheet; a 4-panel cardboard insert with maps and illustrations; & a multi-page appendix with, among other things, some excellent info on local humanoid tribes. I wouldn't really be concerned about the counters too much, but the other three items are critical to the module. Cross your fingers and hope that he can get the rest of the stuff, 'cuz it's well worth it. Just my two kopecs... auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 11:10:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thib's Maps - --- thibault sarlat wrote: > I just found what was wrong about the links, i think > they work fine > now.If someone else could be kind enough to check > the links and report > it to me please.thank you. > Woohoo! Everything seems to be working fine now. As usually, the maps look great! Good work, Thib! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 22:35:57 +0200 From: Jamuga Khan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals to Gods? > Could you provide some examples? > Personally, I agree that Immortals should be like Gods in most senses > (with onvious exceptions), but I can't say I like having them wandering > around in the Forgotten Realms or anything. If they do they should at > least kick some serious butt! :) > > Nahh. Probably just get killed by some weedy little drow goddess (like > Orcus). > > (Is Orcus more D&D than AD&D do you think? Orcus, Demogorgon and Alphaks > are supposed to be the three Immortal Fiends in WotI - Orcus and Demogorgon > are alive and well in the Abyss, though I imagine it would be pretty > pointless bringing > Alphaks along into AD&D without Alphatia to kill...) According to GAZ 13 Atzanteotl is a Screaming Demon... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:54:52 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara For what i think i understood about the debate, i have just this to say.Let's wait till ADD3 is on the shelves.No need to argue before.If someone has any info (leaks and the kind) let share it with us so that we can all prepare.Then when the time would come , we'll see what best we can do to make our beloved setting blossom around the world and get back to its real rank that is the first one. Fortunately my maps would works for all the systems.As for the statistics it should not be too much to set a way to talk about a add2 20th level mage as a "very high level" mage.Most of the npc we share can easily be transposed.I have never seen a post on the list concerning the way we play some situations (we all share about the same rules).I cannot believe that the changes between the ODD and the 3rd edition are that big.i can ever remember someone saying that there was no need for us to buy the newer edition because it looked like the ODD we already knew. Most of the project we share were not D&D oriented nor AD&D oriented but Mystara oriented (more like Mystara-rooted).The flavour would be safe , no doubt about it.Those who don't want to share ideas are not members of this list nor will they ever be.But for all the would be creative minds that could be recruted thanks to the 3 rd edition release, i thinks it's worth it. If Mystara goes first for you , before the games systems ,then , let's compromise.Not with TSR or WotC but with all the fans that will be brought to play on Mystara WotC is making all the work for us, let's take advantage of the event to promote our setting.We all know for having tried others that it is the best.If we act like the old experienced players/DM then we will be an exemple for the newbies and they would start turning to Mystara. I don't know if i was clear there.Maybe i will add something more tomorow. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 19:44:40 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara In a message dated 1999-10-24 17:55:33 Eastern Daylight Time, thibsylv@club-internet.fr writes: > For what i think i understood about the debate, i have just this to > say.Let's wait till ADD3 is on the shelves.No need to argue before.If > someone has any info (leaks and the kind) let share it with us so that > we can all prepare. A LOT of information has been leaked, both officially and unofficially. For anyone who is interested, this page has a lot of info about 3d edition, along with links to the official Wizards site and a few other sites of interest: http://www.mailbag.com/users/ericnoah/dandd3e.htm or Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:50:22 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines By the time I get finished writing this, I'm sure more posts on this subject have gone by. I'll try to answer them later as my time allows. Meanwhile, here are rough guidelines for what I was suggesting earlier. Perhaps we can build upon this unless anyone else comes up with a better proposal -- those of you are interested anyway. Again, I'm only looking for a consensus with the majority of Net-Mystarans. A. You favor OD&D Mystara A1. You don't have to change one iota of your setting. Play at home as you always do. A2. Keep an eye on the few things that define 3E-Mystara (hopefully, a 3E-FAQ will take care of that entire issue). See below as well. B. You favor 3E Mystara (and have been playing with another set of rules) B1. The World Setting: world features listed earlier and which presumably define the original Mystara do not change (the list is still open for additions — I'll list a summary/reminder at the end of this post; please remind me if I forget) B2. Immortals: their descriptions, history, character, and general feel remain unchanged. However, they should be adapted to match mechanics available in 3E (probably some tweaking on both ends, especially as regards to mechanics for mortals to attain Immortality). This impacts their actual abilities and they should probably be treated as "deities" in the 3E version. B3. Monsters: convert those OD&D monsters not available with 3E, else use/modify the closest equivalents for the sake of simplicity. I'm still waiting for a sample 3E monster description from WotC; judging from what's included in the 3E PHB, I suspect monsters stats will include several new and useful ratings. A list of "illegal" monsters should be drafted, not because I'm a power-crazed tyrant, but simply because some monsters may adversely affect the setting itself (like the drow and I'm sure some others -- fire away, folks!). Finally, open up the rest of the list to 3E DM's. B4. Characters: convert existing NPCs as closely as possible to available 3E equivalents so as not to alter the world setting. Possibly disallow 3E NPC characters that just can't be converted back to OD&D (although I suspect this one's too restrictive). Open-up all of the PC character options available in 3E. Alignments need to be looked at carefully. Evil in 3E often means Chaotic in OD&D, but Chaotic in OD&D does not always convert back to Evil in 3E (and so on...) B5. General Game Mechanics: identify the truly "offending" 3E mechanics that are definitely "out" for Mystara (I'd think psionics would fit in this category — fill free to add more if there's a good reason). Else... open up the 3E game mechanics entirely since they should have no noticeable impact on the world setting. That's a no-brainer. C. You don't know anything but 3E C1. Get a copy of the 3E FAQ and try to follow the settings guidelines when posting messages. Hopefully, most of the info showing on the MML/MMB will remain familiar to you, if not plain 3E material already. D. Putting it together D1. Non-3E Mystarans should check out the 3E-FAQ and the list of Mystara-specific guidelines. Try to present your stuff in accord to the above guidelines, provided you want to make that effort. Else, do as you please. Most of the effort consists in simply converting relevant OD&D stats to 3E and listing either the 3E stats or both(*). D2. Hopefully, a majority of people will deliberately support the concept of a standardized 3E platform to communicate on the net. Actually, something that may be useful in a 3E-FAQ would be pointer for non-OD&D players on how to create NPC characters for Mystara that aren't too difficult to translate back to OD&D (don't you start making up non-spellcasting elven barbarian-thief NPCs, alright!). (*) I'm thinking about listing 3E stats normally in the text with OD&D-relevant details either following in brackets or as footnotes. That's something I've been doing in the recent past, especially when I run into something that's not immediately obvious to all readers. For example, I had some 2E AD&D antipaladin-like Lawful-Evil monsters whom I've ended up listing as plain "Chaotic" for OD&D. I didn't even list most of stats, giving only their HD and adding simply that they had the size/strength of ogres. They had spells, which I defined using a 2E-relevant format (such as "mind-affecting and/or charm spells") — in this case I ended up listing the appropriate OD&D spells by name. This sort of stuff requires a bit more work, but at least it's user-friendly with both systems. Anyhoo... these are rough guidelines for what I was envisioning. Please feel free to amend/question/etc. Thanks! Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:00:17 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? > I have to disagree with most of the posters. Mystara is OD&D and OD&D > is Mystara. Yes, you can convert the world to other systems, but why? > Is any edition of AD&D truly superior to OD&D? Sure you've got added > options and rules for everything with AD&D, but does that make it > better, especially for newbies? OD&D is by far the easiest to learn of > the D&D systems and it is not overly complex. > > Sometimes it seems to me that people are ashamed of the OD&D system. > They shouldn't be, it is well balanced, plays quickly and it basically > just works fine as it is. > > By the way I play in an AD&D campaign so I am no OD&D only partisan. > > CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) > > [MURPHY Jason] I think the point being made here isnt that OD&D is an inferior system, simply that OD&D will attract very few new players. Any new players out there will not go searching for out of print OD&D books, they will buy the latest off the shelf rules available at their local distributor. Then when they go searching for a campaign setting they will look first at officially published material and secondly at 3rd party material created for the gaming system that they have purchased. A distant 3rd place would be campaign material created generically or able to be adapted to there rules system. With the 3ed D&D coming out the present mystara material, official and 3rd party, could at best fit into the 3rd bracket. This will make attracting new interest in our campaign setting difficult. If the suggestion to standardise Mystara to 3ed D&D is taken up then we gain the advantage of picking up new interest from people who own the new 3ed system and are looking for some campaign world other than officially published material, that is still readily usable without much conversion. I guess i should qualify my position, I am a die hard OD&D player and will probably never DM any other system unless my players suddenly refused to use it. Somehtin i believe will never happen as my gaming group is very satisfied with the game as it is. I do see that interest in the Mystara world will gradually decline, simply from attrition as players move on to other game systems and worlds. This is something that doesnt particularly bother me, however it is always nice to have some new persons opinions and input into the development of our favourite campaign world. So, Yes i also think that we should probably try to keep Mystara current with the 3ed D&D rules. Even though i will forever be converting the new material back to OD&D. :) Cheers Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:24:37 -0500 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Note: The basic premise of this post is that unless something radical happens, Mystara is most likely never going to be reprinted, especially with TSR cutting back on strong sellers like Ravenloft and Planescape. [Although whether we should actually want it to be reprinted is another question... after all we get more new stuff since the line was canceled than before, and it's all free.] Anyway, I was looking at the Kargatne website (for those who don't know, the Kargatne is the official fan site for Ravenloft), and I noticed that the Kargatne is going to produce free, official products to continue the line once it is cut back in 2000. Now this set me to wondering if we could perhaps get a similar agreement with TSR for Mystara. The benefits of this are pretty large: official recognition of net-products like the NAs and a possible greater chance of getting permission to scan and post OOP products (possibly updated to 3E) or have them sold on a compilation CD. Of course, there is also a downside, which is that TSR would have to approve whatever things we want made official. So what do you all think? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:26:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future In a message dated 1999-10-24 22:15:40 Eastern Daylight Time, anowack@juno.com writes: > Anyway, I was looking at the Kargatne website (for those who don't know, > the Kargatne is the official fan site for Ravenloft), and I noticed that > the Kargatne is going to produce free, official products to continue the > line once it is cut back in 2000. Now this set me to wondering if we > could perhaps get a similar agreement with TSR for Mystara. The benefits > of this are pretty large: official recognition of net-products like the > NAs and a possible greater chance of getting permission to scan and post > OOP products (possibly updated to 3E) or have them sold on a compilation > CD. > > Of course, there is also a downside, which is that TSR would have to > approve whatever things we want made official. > > So what do you all think? >From what the maintainer of the Kargatane site told me, the first thing you will need to do is establish a Mystara site as being of the same professional level of quality (including the ability to set and meet deadlines) that they demonstrated long before WotC approached them with that offer. So if anyone has made you such an offer, then by all means please accept it. Otherwise, I would recommend that you see what you can do about bringing at least one Mystara site up to standards that would impress WotC enough that they make you such an offer. One other possibility -- Bruce Heard's voice is probably the voice that carries the most weight in regard to all things Mystaran. If he is willing to act as a go-between in this matter, his endorsement should go a long way towards getting at least one Mystara site recognized as "official" by WotC. From there it should be possible to do many great things. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #455 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, October 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 456 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future [MYSTARA] - Jomphur in the Hollow World Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara's Flavor [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on Bruce Heard's suggestion. Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:45:52 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future This is an excellent idea, sir. The concept of taking the now-informal Mystara work-groups and putting them to task and giving them deadlines may seem a wee bit like drudgery to many of us, but if it would make the difference between operating without WotC's official recognition or being granted a full seal of approval then may I be the first to sign up! What I hear in your words is the opportunity which this list has sought after for years- a chance to be the official, authorized keeper of Mystara. Certainly, there will be cynics who would say "it doesn't make a difference," but I would say to them that indeed it could be the single realistic way to bring Mystara back into WotC's product listing and campaign chest four to five years after it lost that distinction. And that could draw the few role-players currently starting up (though, as I wrote a few days ago, there are extraordinarily few of those) into our setting. Every little bit counts, and for certain this is a far cry from a "little bit." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future - --- Aaron E Nowack wrote: > Now this set me > to wondering if we > could perhaps get a similar agreement with TSR for > Mystara. > So what do you all think? This topic has come up before, and I think most would agree that this would be a good thing overall. Shawn's site would be the obvious choice (at http://dnd.starflung.com/ for anyone who's still in the dark ;-)). Shawn has David Wise's (of WotC) email address posted at the top of his site, and everyone is encouraged to email him to express their support for an official Mystara website. Anytime I get in a conversation with a WotC-type on the WotC Message Boards, I shamelessly look for opportunities to push this very idea. ;-) A webmaster of Kartagane recently stated that WotC has no plans to post OOP Ravenloft products at their site. Also, a WotC rep has said that the chances for a future line of OOP CD-ROMs (Mystara, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Birthright, etc.) is dependent on the sales of the upcoming Forgotten Realms OOP CD-ROM. Likewise, any future Mystara (or Greyhawk, etc.) Atlas CD-ROM depends on the sale of the just-released FR Atlas CD-ROM. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:39:12 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future This topic has come up before, and I think most would agree that this would be a good thing overall. Shawn's site would be the obvious choice (at http://dnd.starflung.com/ for anyone who's still in the dark ;-)). Shawn has David Wise's (of WotC) email Another choice could be the Tome of Mystara, which seems to be attempting to impose deadlines on itself. Of course there has only been one issue of this, but the material presented in it was quite good. The people creating this work also seem to be rather dedicated to Mystara as a genre not a game system. Note i am not part of the Tome editors, i just happen to appreciate the work these people have done :), not to discount all the great work done at other sites such as Shawns either. I am a shameless slut when it comes to feeding of other people hard work and creativity :-) Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:04:10 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future My two cents is this: We need a Poor Wizard's Encyclopedia! The biggest mistake they made in attempting to convert Mystara to 2eAD&D was that they didn't try and consolidate all the material into a single hardcover or form of publication. Obviously there's no way you could get everything in there, realistically, but it would have gone a lot further towards staying in line with what Mystara fans expected and wanted, and would have also cost a LOT less money. (Especially if they cut out the corny CD's.) There's nothing more frustrating than reading the Almanacs and being told "Sorry, but you should have bought that module when you were six years old for that reference material." (Okay, I'm not THAT young, but bear with me.) I think an Encyclopedia and database for every place, person, object, and reference for Mystara would be a very professional piece of work that could catch WotC's attention. The only sour note here is that it would probably be absolutely best if all statistical data was presented in... 3rd Edition. There's little chance that WotC would resurrect Mystara, regardless of the system it's in, it would be the best way to keep their attention. (Yell at me all you want, but the chances of WotC readopting OD&D is absolutely nil.) IronWolf Reigning (and sole) member of the Committee to Rename the Capital of Karameikos to it's Proper and Much Cooler Name (No, the acronym doesn't work) "Murphy, Jason" wrote: >         This topic has come up before, and I think most would >         agree that this would be a good thing overall. Shawn's >         site would be the obvious choice (at >         http://dnd.starflung.com/ for anyone who's still in >         the dark ;-)). Shawn has David Wise's (of WotC) email > > Another choice could be the Tome of Mystara, which seems to be attempting to > impose deadlines on itself. Of course there has only been one issue of this, > but the material presented in it was quite good. The people creating this > work also seem to be rather dedicated to Mystara as a genre not a game > system. > Note i am not part of the Tome editors, i just happen to appreciate the work > these people have done :), not to discount all the great work done at other > sites such as Shawns either. I am a shameless slut when it comes to feeding > of other people hard work and creativity :-) > > Jason Murphy > Software Engineer > MITS Limited > EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au > PHONE: 08 9481 4066 > FAX: 08 9481 4064 > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:12:08 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future > The only sour note here is that it would probably be absolutely best if > all > statistical data was presented in... 3rd Edition. There's little chance > that > WotC would resurrect Mystara, regardless of the system it's in, it would > be the > best way to keep their attention. (Yell at me all you want, but the > chances of > WotC readopting OD&D is absolutely nil.) > > [MURPHY Jason] Sadly i have to agree with you here. But we can all live with at least a little hope. Anyway all is not lost, the members of this list (and others) are still churning out excellent material on a regular basis. Paying service to the new 3ed may simply help bring in new blood. Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 02:26:58 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Jomphur in the Hollow World As I think back to the many aeons ago when I first laid eyes upon the archives of the Mystara-Digest, I presumed that by the time I ever became involved with it, the entirety of Mystara would have been detailed in one form or another. But perhaps I was wrong! HAS THE CONTINENT OF JOMPHUR BEEN DESCRIBED YET? Could it be that there is still a realm entirely untouched by Mystaran authors? If so, may I ask whether anyone would be interested in writing a GAZ/HWR with me for it? Feel free to email privately to prevent list bombardment by anyone interested. If anyone HAS already written-up the continent, feel free to correct me. I was simply under the impression that the realm is unknown as of yet. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 02:31:48 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara's Flavor Well, there's one more thing that defines Mystara's flavour (spoken gingerly). That Mystara has evolved over time at a rate unknown to other game worlds. I consider the RC the *fourth* edition of OD&D, and Mystara grew and changed from the second to the third to the fourth edition of that game system. So, why stifle the evolution? OD&D reached an evolutionary dead-end (in that it became extinct, or OOP). Perhaps Mystara should continue to flourish in the FRPG world by side-stepping extinction and continuing to grow. (And it can't do that in a game system frozen in time). Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:05:04 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thoughts on Bruce Heard's suggestion. 1) I don't know if Bruce intended to say this, but his original post on the topic could be read in this manner: This mailinglist (and other internet forums) should only use the AD&D 3E game mechanics. On this I totally disagree and give my support to Leroy in saying that any game system could and should be discussed. 2)The OD&D system is flawed, but IMO superior to AD&D2. Especially when dealing with Mystara. OD&D and Mystara have a special connection and the setting and the system have had a heavy impact on oneanother. Having said that, I no longer use the OD&D system. Also, I believe that the D&D3E system is as good as D&D will ever get. 3) As stated in 1) I will continue to discuss and support discussions about Mystara with various systems including two of my favourites; GURPS and SAGA. However, I think what Bruce is looking for is a major Mystara 3E project. I'm totally positive to this and will contribute to such a project in any way I can. I also don think a FAQ is enough. We should have an entire web site devoted to Mystara 3E. 4) It is pretty obvious that people use several different systems for Mystara. Because of this, I'd like to encourage people to write more non-system-specific articles as they provide very useful, interesting information that easily can be used by all fans of Mystara. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 13:01:35 +0100 From: "michael.jones" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines Hi everyone, I've been listening to the debating over the future of Mystra with interest. As a GM who doesn't use either D&D or AD&D 2nd ed I need to try and understand discussions where reference to game mechanic is used instead of role playing description and I have a horrible feeling that when you try to standadize the game mechanic talk, you stifle role playing freedom. It's a trueism that the game system will impact on the setting, there is far more to it than checking what aliment system is being used, there is the general 'power level' that the system will create, each and every spell needs to be checked, relative power levels of creatures need to seen. So again I would stess that when discussions take place, an actual description of what is meant to be described is given, and not some lazy referanced to a particular game mechanic. If you ask me why I'm saying these things, I have to say that it's because I know I'm not going to fork out £40 + just to try and undertstand what is being discussed. I have no problem with what ever game system is being used to describe Mystra, as long as the above points are being bourn is mind, and yes, using 3 edition will make it easier for new players,.GMs particularly if a good faq of Mystra and 3 edition is made available. Anyway, I needed to say something Flossy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:26:08 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: I mentioned in My other mail (Thoughs on Bruce Heards Suggestion) that I was positive to a project detailing 3E Mystara. Looking at this as such a project, I have a few comments.. > B. You favor 3E Mystara (and have been playing with another set of rules) > > B1. The World Setting: world features listed earlier and which presumably > define the original Mystara do not change (the list is still open for > additions — I'll list a summary/reminder at the end of this post; please > remind me if I forget) Your other post on this issue was very interesting, and I think, included most of these elements. > B2. Immortals: their descriptions, history, character, and general feel > remain unchanged. However, they should be adapted to match mechanics > available in 3E (probably some tweaking on both ends, especially as regards > to mechanics for mortals to attain Immortality). This impacts their actual > abilities and they should probably be treated as "deities" in the 3E version. Ideally, as 3E is released we should produce a new rules system for playing Immortals in Mystara. I've been toying with such a system for a while now, but I wont elaborate more on that at the moment. I agree that in general (in a mortal campaign) they should be regarded as "deities". The rules for attaining Immortality seem to me to be easily converted. OTOH I've never really liked the original rules, so if anyone has alternatives I'd love to see em. > B3. Monsters: convert those OD&D monsters not available with 3E, else > use/modify the closest equivalents for the sake of simplicity. I'm still > waiting for a sample 3E monster description from WotC; judging from what's > included in the 3E PHB, I suspect monsters stats will include several new and > useful ratings. A list of "illegal" monsters should be drafted, not because > I'm a power-crazed tyrant, but simply because some monsters may adversely > affect the setting itself (like the drow and I'm sure some others -- fire > away, folks!). Finally, open up the rest of the list to 3E DM's. >From what I hear ability scores will be incuded in the monsters descriptions. New monster stats are needed. I'm also in favour of providing alternative monster statistics for Mystaran versions of 3E monsters, even when found in official 3E material. Mystaran gnolls for instance, don't have to be the same as official 3E gnolls, depending on how the first ones turn out. IMO, this is especially true for creatures like Elves, Hin and Dwarves who often are assumed to be the same, but who in fact are quite different comparing Gaz material and AD&D2 material. I'm also in favour of the "illegal" monsters list. It should be noted that this is not a rule that cannot be broken, but that these monsters arent found in most Mystara campaigns. Query: should metallic dragons, other than gold be on this list? > B4. Characters: convert existing NPCs as closely as possible to available > 3E equivalents so as not to alter the world setting. Possibly disallow 3E NPC > characters that just can't be converted back to OD&D (although I suspect this > one's too restrictive). Open-up all of the PC character options available in > 3E. Alignments need to be looked at carefully. Evil in 3E often means Chaotic > in OD&D, but Chaotic in OD&D does not always convert back to Evil in 3E (and > so on...) I agree on this one, although I have no problem with having NPCs who cannot easily be converted back to OD&D. > B5. General Game Mechanics: identify the truly "offending" 3E mechanics > that are definitely "out" for Mystara (I'd think psionics would fit in this > category — fill free to add more if there's a good reason). Else... open up > the 3E game mechanics entirely since they should have no noticeable impact on > the world setting. That's a no-brainer. I'm actually less sceptical about including psionics than including sorcery. I dont feel that I know enough about the 3E to comment on this yet though. Also, it could be possible to say that this is OUT of the Known World, but could exist elsewhere... > C. You don't know anything but 3E > D. Putting it together > > D1. Non-3E Mystarans should check out the 3E-FAQ and the list of > Mystara-specific guidelines. Try to present your stuff in accord to the above > guidelines, provided you want to make that effort. Else, do as you please. > Most of the effort consists in simply converting relevant OD&D stats to 3E > and listing either the 3E stats or both(*). I dont like the wording here. People who dont feel comfortable with prestenting their ideas in 3E terms should not be discouraged to post their ideas. Rather I'd encourage others to assist people not comfortable with the 3E and help provide game mechanics for ideas presented with other stats. Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 14:35:29 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > I have to disagree with most of the posters. Mystara is OD&D and OD&D > is Mystara. [CronoCloud] > Pardon me if I beg to differ with you entirely. That's the kind of > narrow-minded, intolerant opinions that turn people off. While I don't completely agree with the original poster, OD&D has had quite an impact on how Mystara was formed. I feel kinda funny telling you this, Bruce.. :P Also, don't you think your reply to CronoCloud was a bit harsh? Håvard *** Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:49:18 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? Shane wrote: >I think that this is not always a huge problem in the >first place, since very little Mystara fan-produced >material (ie. the *only* new Mystara material for the >immediate future) includes stats, which would be where >various rules systems would vary the most. I agree with you here, Shane. Most descriptions of new NPCs and the like focus on the character's personality, and not so much the stats. In the case of monsters, I don't think conversion would be too onerous; nor would it be the case for spells, either. The only place where I can see using 3E would be in the case of submissions to Dragon or Dungeon. The venerable Tome of Mystara would likely accept submissions in OD&D/AD&D/3E format, so long as it's Mystaran. No need to worry here. Perhaps, when the 3E game does come out, we should sit down and work out conversion rules for OD&D -> 3E, if it isn't already done for us? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:40:47 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom Greetings, Anyone interested in writing Yavdlom-related material for the Net Almanac? If so, please email me at ganderg@tc.gc.ca. Thanks, Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:54:12 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1EF0.82E1426C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="x-user-defined" >My two cents is this: We need a Poor Wizard's Encyclopedia! >The biggest mistake they made in attempting to convert Mystara to 2eAD&D was >that they didn't try and consolidate all the material into a single hardcover or >form of publication. Obviously there's no way you could get everything in there, >realistically, but it would have gone a lot further towards staying in line with >what Mystara fans expected and wanted, and would have also cost a LOT less >money. (Especially if they cut out the corny CD's.) >IronWolf A very interesting idea, there was a Greyhawk Adventures hardback, a Dragonlance Adventures hardback, and a Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback. Why was there never a Known World or Mystara Adventures hardback? There was more than enough source material/modules to have made a Known World Adventures hardback as easily as the GH, DL or FR hardbacks. This would have been a nice book to have had. (Not that I ever expect to see one published now.) ASEO out - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1EF0.82E1426C Content-Type: text/html; charset="x-user-defined" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback

>My two cents is this: We need a Poor Wizard's = Encyclopedia!

>The biggest mistake they made in attempting to = convert Mystara to 2eAD&D was
>that they didn't try and consolidate all the = material into a single hardcover or
>form of publication. Obviously there's no way = you could get everything in there,
>realistically, but it would have gone a lot = further towards staying in line with
>what Mystara fans expected and wanted, and would = have also cost a LOT less
>money. (Especially if they cut out the corny = CD's.)

>IronWolf

A very interesting idea, there was a Greyhawk = Adventures hardback, a Dragonlance Adventures hardback, and a Forgotten = Realms Adventures hardback. 

Why was there never a Known World or Mystara = Adventures hardback?
There was more than enough source material/modules = to have made a Known World Adventures hardback as easily as the GH, DL = or FR hardbacks.

This would have been a nice book to have had. (Not = that I ever expect to see one published now.)

ASEO out

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1EF0.82E1426C-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:14:22 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Murphy, Jason wrote: > Another choice could be the Tome of Mystara, which seems to be attempting to > impose deadlines on itself. Of course there has only been one issue of this, > but the material presented in it was quite good. The people creating this > work also seem to be rather dedicated to Mystara as a genre not a game > system. It's very kind of you to make such a suggestion of us, Jason. Yes, we are attempting to stick to deadlines. The Winter holiday season is kind of throwing that for a loop, but we're expecting mid-January release for issue #2. And the forum is exactly as you suggest: any game system is welcomed as long as it pertains to Mystara for its subject matter. Flattery is, of course, always appreciated. Thanks. :) Kevin Turner for Tome of Mystara *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:50:29 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines I think my posts from yesterday aren't going to make it, especially since I accidently used the wrong e-mail server (sorry, Leroy). Basically, I've been following this for a few days, and I have some responses. 1. If there is any chance of getting Mystara republished (or getting permission to publish official materials on-line ourselves), we need to standardize the system to 3E as Bruce suggested. My question is whether this is a realistic possibility. Bruce? Anyone? TSR realizes that Ravenloft hax great potential for once again turning a profit for them, and the last thing TSR wants is to lose all those Ravenloft fans who might say they won't buy 3E if their favorite setting is not included. Unfortunately, Mystara seems to face an even greater challenge--what, honestly, are the chances that we can hope for anything more than a Dragon or Dungeon article every few years? 2. I completely support Leroy in saying that the MML (and also the MMB) must remain open to any gaming system. The way to do this is to create a website dedicated to the 3E conversion and convert and publish anything and everything that we can. Hopefully this could be a sister-site of Shawn's starflung site so that we won't have competing sites for the "official" status. 3. Any conversion that occurs must involve compromise on all sides. I think most of us agree that OD&D Mystara was better than 2nd Edition Mystara (I'm not trying to imply any superiority of one game over the other, only the settings), so I think we should try to stay generally faithful to OD&D, making the necessary changes to fit the new rules. On specific issues like immortals, I think our best bet is to try to establish a strong working relationship with TSR (first rule--no "T$R" or Hasbro-bashing) and do everything possible to encourage them to support Mystara, even if only minimally, in their 3E publications. For example, the new 2nd Edition supplement on gods mentions several Mystaran Immortals. When the 3E equivalent comes out, we should push for something, even if only a page or so, explaining the differences between gods and immortals. If the WotI rules were abbreviated and given in 3E terms in the official supplement, I think TSR would find that quite a few people are interested in the notion of paths to Immortality, even if they're playing in FR or Greyhawk. 4. This must be done well! Hopefully TSR will be willing to give us at least a little support (a page or two in each of the initial releases that are not world-specific). But we need to be willing to do our part--meeting self-imposed deadlines, converting everything as quickly as possible to 3E, standardizing and agreeing upon rules for the 3E conversion, carefully avoiding copyright violations, and producing quality products. If we don't do this, and use the 3E rules to do so, Bruce Heard's article on Tortles will likely be the last we see of official Mystara. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:40:15 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > But it seems that Bruce Heard may be hinting at ways for us to get access to some of the information earlier than we might otherwise be able to. Of course, the question is at what cost? I must admit that I rather enjoy getting information about 3E by means of various leaks and rumors and being able to discuss them freely because I never had to sign an NDA (non-disclosure agreement). The playtesters and others who have access to the real material know slightly more than we do, but every time they post to a mailing list, message board, or Usenet newsgroup they have to weigh what they know vs. what they are allowed to say -- which is something that I am very glad I don't have to do. [Kavyid] Yeah, no kidding. That's somting I'm investigating with WotC. Not sure if I'll get a clear answer on this. More later... > In any case, unless Bruce is planning to set up a small working group involving only some members of the list, this list should definitely be regarded as an insecure channel [...] If anything, I'd like people to start thinking about how to approach this whole issue at least. I'd like to be able to square away all the issues we can without having direct access to the new rules. If we can have more before their release, all the better. > On the other hand, it might be useful for us to know more about the bard and sorcerer classes if either of them might prove useful for handling some of the more exotic spellcasters such as shamans, wokani, and fairies. [...] Indeed. That's were some of the 3E conversion guidliens could help. In most cases, this really does not look like a big problem. > I vaguely recall reading some mention of such notes being added to the conversion book -- is that the plan now? If it isn't, will Bruce Heard be able to apply any influence to ensure that such material is added? To cite a case in point -- without having reference to the older D&D rules, would any of you have any idea how to convert a "10th level elf, attack rank F" into its AD&D equivalent? [...] Good points all. Do you mean making sure OD&D conversion guidelines to 3E are officially sanctionned in a product by WotC.... I wasn't aware of this project. Not sure if I'll be able to have a direct impact on this. I'll check into that. Thanks. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #456 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, October 25 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 457 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - A new project [MYSTARA] - Modriswerg Dwarves [MYSTARA] - what titan has to offer this week ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:40:19 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > There never has been, nor will there ever be, any sort of officially sanctioned roleplaying game that is designated as the point of referrence for discussing Mystara on this mailing list. This list is here to focus on Mystara, and people are free to discuss it in terms of whatever rolepaying game them choose to explore it in, as long as the topic remains focused on Mystara. [Leroy] SO in fact, what you're saying is that OD&D and other game system never have been and never will be a standard on this site. That's okay by me. :o) One the other hand, if (and I insist on "IF") there is a consensus among Mystarans on this mailing list that 3E should become even an informal standard, then this should be no concern of yours. No one is being forced to do anything here. I think the guidelines I suggested last night made that pretty clear. > Mystara is a made up fantasy world, and the only set of rules that is "best" used to explore it is whatever works best for you and you group. Anyone who feels otherwise needs to put down their dice get out more often. Once again... no one ever said (certainly not I) that anyone's game should be changed as a result of what I'm suggesting. > 3e is on its way to being the standard in the xD&D field, but before it was 2e and we all still seemed to get along just fine. If people want to post stuff using the 3e rules, they are free to do so. If they want to use the 2e rules, or the 1e rules, or OD&D, or GURPS, or Creeks and Crawdads, more power to them. As long as it is Mystara, it is welcome. I don't disagree with you -- although I think this approach remains a bit myopic in the long run. I won't even attempt to argue the point with you since your opinion is your prerogative and yours only. On the other hand, I don't see that others should be discouraged from discussing the issue if they feel like it. This very much IS about Mystara. > As far as the rest of the discussion goes, I will be watching it very closely. Any more confrontational nonsense (i.e. "Grow up") will result in warnings. Either make a point, explore some options, come to a conclusion, or move on. (I thought that's what I was doing all along). Judging from the example you picked, it seems you aimed this in my general direction. I certainly applaud your efforts in keeping discussions nice and polite on the MML (looking at the past, I've seen some doozies in this respect). I know where you're coming from; trying to play net-cop is neither an exciting nor an easy task. Thanks for all the hard work. Naturally, the last thing I'd want to do is offend you. Therefore I, Bruce Heard, pledge to treat everyone here politely and respond factually to their points, even though some might deserve it more than others, and provided of course I have the time to do so. I will thusly apply the technique suggested above, as follows: 1. Proceed with bowel movement as efficiently as possible 2. Stand up and walk away from the proverbial container This sounds eminently feasable. I hope it does to everyone else too. I certainly wish your version of the above matches mine, else of course, it is your prerogative to thrown me out. That's entirely fair. I sympathize with your concerns, on the other hand, it is also my prerogative to do what I think is right. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:40:27 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > To sum up: do a 3ED conversion guide for OD&D Mystara please (which will then work both ways, mind u), and if this will later save u from typing stats both for OD&D and D&D 3Ed in every Mystara article you'll write on the net. [DM] Yep, agreed. This thing has to be flexible so both ends of the spectrum get what they want. I think the the guidelines I posted last night take into consideration both goals: ** Making 3E Mystara appealing to people who want to run 3E games ** Making sure that 3E does not go overboard to cause problems with "canon" Mystara (i.e. the OD&D-based campaign or anyone else's version). It's mostly a question of being aware of each other's concerns and needs. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:10 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara >>On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 16:07:08 EDT Ambreville@aol.com writes: >> > I think that OD&D is not too difficult to understand, and not too >> foreign >> to AD&D players. >> >> Yes, but you're missing a point. Although I don't necessarily agree >> that OD&D is simpler than 3E (see below) Actually, if you would have continued to read the post, you may have noticed that the idea was that there are volumes of Mystara detail already in the format of OD&D rules, simpler than 3E or not, and that it is unlikely that as much detail will be produced in 3E format. Why reinvent the wheel? [John Hoffman] To me, we reinvent the wheel if we try to teach an old game to people who already know one. That WotC comes up with a 3E game is completely outside of anyone's control. One the other hand, what remains under our control, us the Mystara fans, is dealing with 3E on our own terms so that we can turn this situation to our advantage as early as possible. Ignoring the issue will do absolutely no good to anyone. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:17 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > From which I come to one more point. I would like to point out to Mr. Heard that in my opinion he is being not so slightly rude on the handling of this matter. Answering ap. 10 times in a row with the same subject is in my book an offense. [Pasi] Let me be as polite with you, Pasi, as I may. I'm truly sorry that you feel offended by the number of posts I've mailed to this list. Such was not my intention. To be factual on the other hand, since I am responding to other people's posts, including yours, I don't expect this trend to slow down in the immediate. Once again, I deeply apologize for any inconvenience and suggest that you kindly delete from your mailbox all future e-mails from yours truly. I thank you in advance for your understanding. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:23 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Until it is released, the 3rd edition is vaporware. Once it is released I can judge how well Mystara will work with the system. [Cronocloud] Actually... there's already plenty of 3E stuff floating around that you can have a peek at. Else, if what you're implying is that WotC may drop their plan to release 3E (??) you can forget that. I've been in the business for 15 years and it's pretty obvious to me that their plan is not vaporware. Outside signs of this were the commitment of WotC CEO, Peter Adkison, in front of the public at GenCon along with such celebrities as Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax. The presentation itself was very good and obviously, it is pretty clear the WotC machinery is in gear for an on-time release. I have a copy of the 3E PHB next to my keyboard to attest that the work has been done in earnest. Does this alleviate your concern? > Any time a setting is converted to a different rules system some flavor is lost. For example, I could convert the Realms to OD&D, but it would not be the same. I don't agree with you. If we do the job ourselves, I doubt it'll be as bad as you say. > Besides if we want new players, then TSR/WoTC/Hasbro has to do their part too by aggressively going after the mass market. They need to get their products in every K-Mart/ Wal-Mart/small town bookstores in the nation. It is a fallacy to assume traditional D&D can make it into mass-market. D&D is a hobby game by definition and, although some mass-market retail stores may indeed pick it up, it remains very difficult for WotC to sell D&D to them. Some retail companies don't even want to hear about D&D. If WotC manages to get either WalMart or KMart to pick it up, I'll be very impressed. Besides, what should this matter to anyone here? The goal is not necessarily to please or help WotC in any way, but merely to make it easier for new players to get into Mystara. The next wave of players is very likely to be 3E - -- and that's where we should be if we want to benefit from it. If finding 3E material in your hometown is your concern, you can always order the ones you're pretty sure about, like a PHB or a DMG for example. Price should be pretty competitive. I think I remember Peter Adkison at GenCon pledging that the PHB and the DMG will remain at or less than $20 each. Granted that's a total of $40 for both PHB and DMG if you decide to buy both, plus a Monstrous Manual, I presume. This compares to $25 back in 1991 for the single Rules Cyclopedia. Sure, this adds up -- but you can't really fault WotC here. They are in fact offering hardbacks for five dollars less today than back in 1991. Nowadays, they should probably go for $30 each. Their profit margin on these two books has got to be fairly small. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:20 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > One idea for dealing with some of the arbitrary limitations of Mystara (such as all elves being spellcasters and no non-gold metallic dragons) is to treat them as peculiarities of the "Known World" region of southeastern Brun, with exceptions possible in regions remote from that area. [Kavyid] This does bring up a point. We know we'd probably NOT change NPCs from their original descriptions, regardless of the number of game options at hand with 3E. This implies (please correct me if I'm wrong) that *in general* original Alfheim elves are of the fighter/wizard type, and that halflings of the Shires and dwarves of Rockhome are of the fighter type, etc... This is all fine and dandy. One the other hand, I'd leave it to DM's and players to determine whether they can run other versions of these races in their campaigns. If someone wants to run a dwarven-wizard (ugh), let them. At worst, they'll remain the one oddity in their campaign. PCs ARE oddities anyway so it should not matter. Actually I'd love one of my players to come up with such a dwarf -- I'd have a ball sending Glantrian wizards after that amazing "specimen" just to see what's inside that makes it so different! "By Rad, and if this were a trend? We must act at once!" :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:26 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > And I guess, in the hundreds of spells that come out, not all of them could be available in Mystara -just because they WILL change the flavor. [Ezio] Okay -- let's get productive here. Which spells specifically do you think would change the setting (using 2E as a basis for the moment)? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:32 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > So, Yes i also think that we should probably try to keep Mystara current with the 3ed D&D rules. Even though i will forever be converting the new material back to OD&D. :) [Jason] Yeah. Nothing wrong with this! :o) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:36 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > One other possibility -- Bruce Heard's voice is probably the voice that carries the most weight in regard to all things Mystaran. If he is willing to act as a go-between in this matter, his endorsement should go a long way towards getting at least one Mystara site recognized as "official" by WotC. >From there it should be possible to do many great things. [Kavyid] I'll do what I can to help! Obvioulsy I cannot accomplish all this alone nor do I care to try. That's why I'm hoping we can all work as a team here and get something we all feel comfortable with. Thanks again for your patience and support -- I have posted way-more messages here than I care to brag about! I'll be out for a little while (I guess I have phone calls to make now). Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:30 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > I, for one, play Mystara with AD&D2 rules, and I will probably stick with that, since I don't see any real improvement in D&D3. [Giampaolo Agosta] You may need to have a better look. Were you able to sit down and flip through the pages of the 3E playtesters printout? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:34 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > Anyway, I was looking at the Kargatne website (for those who don't know, the Kargatne is the official fan site for Ravenloft), and I noticed that the Kargatne is going to produce free, official products to continue the line once it is cut back in 2000. Now this set me to wondering if we could perhaps get a similar agreement with TSR for Mystara. [Aaron] I think you're on the right track, Aaron. Trying to get Mystara reprinted is darn near impossible at this time. It may not be so forever, OR, there may be other alternatives in the future that could prove satisfactory to everyone involved. The one you're hinting at is a very good one indeed. Doing the ground work to keep Mystara current with WotC latest tools should help in this respect (as least as far as common language is concerned). > Of course, there is also a downside, which is that TSR would have to approve whatever things we want made official. That's the unavoidable flipside. On the other hand, the alternative is not have anything "official" at all. Not this matters to established Mystara players since they are usually able to come up with their own stuff anyway. But, once again, having ANYTHING officially endorsed by WotC is a good way to attract attention from the rest of the gaming community, and that's good if the goal is to attract more fans and keep Mystara going. The trick is being capable of influencing how this is done so we're not stuck with something everyone feels is actually harmful to the setting. Cooperating and maintaining friendly contacts with WotC should go a long way toward helping "our cause". Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:41:28 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara > I think that there is basically no need for a unifying system for Mystara, and that because of the TSR/WotC commercial policy. [Caroletti] Again, we not talking about uniting systems but merely the language we use. This has nothing to do with TSR/WotC present, past, or future policies. We're not trying to create an us vs. them situation, which I think will produce nothing but more bad feeling. What we are trying to do is benefit from a situation that could be to *our* advantage -- namely getting in more people into the folds of Mystara. Whether there will be more versions of the game in the future remains irrelevant since there's nothing we can do about it. The best we can do is try not to become so obscure and distant from the rest of the gaming universe so that this mailing list does not become an insignificant forum for eccentric and antisocial old geezers! :D Bruce Heard "If you can't beat it... JOIN IT!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > > I vaguely recall reading some mention of such notes being added to the > conversion book -- is that the plan now? If it isn't, will Bruce Heard be > able to apply any influence to ensure that such material is added? To cite a > case in point -- without having reference to the older D&D rules, would any > of you have any idea how to convert a "10th level elf, attack rank F" into > its AD&D equivalent? [...] > > Good points all. Do you mean making sure OD&D conversion guidelines to 3E are > officially sanctionned in a product by WotC.... I wasn't aware of this > project. Not sure if I'll be able to have a direct impact on this. I'll check > into that. Thanks. On this topic: I wrote to WotC just after the 3E FAQ came out asking about the "Conversion Guide" mentioned in the answer to the second question in that document: Q: When will it be released? A: The first book, the Player's Handbook, will be released in August of the year 2000. The Dungeon Master's Guide will be released in September of 2000, and the Monster Manual in October of 2000. Also in August we will release a Conversion Guide to help ease the transition between previous editions and 3rd Edition. I asked if the guide would contain oD&D to 3E details. The response I got was not conclusive but was positive (i.e., it would be considered). I believe a few other MML individiuals also wrote to the e-dress listed in the 3E FAQ asking about the same topic, and got similar replies. Obviously the more people who ask for these kind of conversions to be placed in the 'official' conversion guide book, the more likely it will happen. Please feel free to add YOUR voice by sending email to the FAQ maintainer at dancey@wizards.com. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 10:52:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenn Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future - --- "Murphy, Jason" wrote: > Another choice could be the Tome of Mystara, which > seems to be attempting to > impose deadlines on itself. Of course there has only > been one issue of this, > but the material presented in it was quite good. The > people creating this > work also seem to be rather dedicated to Mystara as > a genre not a game > system. Thanks for the compliments, Jason! Tome of Mystara is, indeed, still a new format - we have one issue under our belts, and I think that went quite well, thanks to the superb calibre of the contributions (thanks, everyone!). As an online "magazine," we do impose deadlines upon ourselves - Issue #2 will be out in January 2000. We are, indeed, dedicated to Mystara as a genre. Every game system is welcome in the Tome, even (as Leroy wrote) "Creeks and Crawdads." :-) Kevin and I feel that it is critical to Mystara's survival that no readers - whether they're veteran OD&D DMs or novice GURPS players - be alienated by an imposed format. Mystara is our common love, and that alone should unite us, regardless of system. > Note i am not part of the Tome editors, i just > happen to appreciate the work > these people have done :)] Thanks again! :-) Jennifer Favia Guerra Editor, Tome of Mystara http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:01:14 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > This does bring up a point. We know we'd probably NOT change NPCs from their > original descriptions, regardless of the number of game options at hand with > 3E. This implies (please correct me if I'm wrong) that *in general* original > Alfheim elves are of the fighter/wizard type, and that halflings of the > Shires and dwarves of Rockhome are of the fighter type, etc... This is all > fine and dandy. One the other hand, I'd leave it to DM's and players to > determine whether they can run other versions of these races in their > campaigns. If someone wants to run a dwarven-wizard (ugh), let them. At > worst, they'll remain the one oddity in their campaign. PCs ARE oddities > anyway so it should not matter. Actually I'd love one of my players to come > up with such a dwarf -- I'd have a ball sending Glantrian wizards after that > amazing "specimen" just to see what's inside that makes it so different! "By > Rad, and if this were a trend? We must act at once!" :D I agree. No absolute nonos, but lets include information about whats considered rare and almost unique. This is what makes the setting exotic, which is a good thing IMO. I always liked stuff like that there were no orcs in Krynn for instance. I've probably said these things before but I guess these things can't be said enough. As for wizard dwarves, like I mentioned in another mail, the Moulder Dwarves could have wizards among them... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:04:43 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - A new project Greetings. While war wages upon the planes of the Immortals over rules systems, I've been considering something else... I've been planning, half-heartedly and sometimes with greater vigor, the idea of writing my own net series of stories based in the world of Mystara. Naturally, Bruce Heard's work with "The Voyage of the Princess Ark" is a great source of inspiration in this regard. I've also considered lately that I really, for myself, need to start writing something, anything at all, because unfortuantely, I seemed to be cursed to become a writer, and I'd best be good at it. My tentative title for the series is "Tales from the Known World". I don't intend it to be a narrow field, but possibly to have multiple storylines and characters. My initial story idea is of a Minroth Merchant-Prince, who is contracted by the Guilds to circumnavigate the world and find new ports and cultures to establish trading relations with. I envision a sailing ship, and a host of crew that are from many cultures, nations, and races. (The crew of the Pequod from Moby Dick is an extremely good visual of this.) So why am I bringing it up? Well, I could gladly use some help. Submissions of story ideas and characters would be greatly welcomed, and aid in designing areas the ship and crew will be visiting would also be good. If none can do so, then I'll do it all myself, but I'd expect it to take a bit longer than usual in that case. I've not decided yet if I'm going to write it in a journal format like the Princess Ark was, or in a direct 1st or 3rd person format. I should add here, as a personal rant of sorts, that to me, it's always stories that make a campaign world come alive. Most of the campaign settings have done little for me, until I read an exceptional story based upon it. (Faerun was just a hokey name so far as I was concerned, until I read the Icewind Dale trilogy.) More than anything, stories can not only bring life to the setting, but also continue it. (Consider Battletech and Shadowrun, which keep a continuous narrative with every book, and as Forgotten Realms has started to do.) Well, let me know what you think. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:11:51 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Modriswerg Dwarves Well, with dwarven wizards entering the conversation, I suppose I should show this. I wrote this up for my AD&D Player Handout Book for Mystara, let me know what you think: New Subrace: Modriswerg (Moulder Dwarves, Rot Dwarves) The Modriswerg are an ancient clan of dwarves exiled from Rockhome for pursuit of forbidden lore and traffic with dark powers. Only the gnomes are their peers as artificers, but the Modriswerg are said to be cursed by the Darkness, condemned forever to suffer distrust, treachery, and madness. Modriswerg reside in underground warrens in the hills and mountains of the Northern Reaches. They are aloof and generally dislike visitors. They share their race's traditional conservative attitudes, they are loath to abandon ritual, and adopt new ways reluctantly. They are masters of traps and fiendish devices; the best work in this field is done by Modriswerg craftsdwarves. Modriswerg can be wizards, priests, warriors, or thieves. Ability Score Adjustments: Modriswerg dwarves have a +1 to their Intelligence and a +2 to their Constitution. They have a -1 to their Strength, and a -2 to their Charisma. Alignment: They cannot be of good alignment, the majority of the race is Chaotic Neutral. Modriswerg Dwarf Ability Scores Ability  Minimum Maximum Strength  6  16 Dexterity 3  17 Constitution 12  20 Intelligence 3  19 Wisdom  3  18 Charisma 3  12 Languages: Dwarf (Modriswerg dialect), Dwarf (Rockhome), Gnoll, Kobold Special Advantages: Modriswerg have the basic dwarf package of abilities listed in the Player's Handbook, with these adjustments: · Their Infravision has a range of 90'. · Their Mining abilities are equivalent to that of a gnome, rather than a basic dwarf. · They do not have the dwarvish bonus to hit humanoids, nor do any humanoid foes suffer the -4 penalty listed. This is due to the Modriswerg's long existence more in cooperation with these creatures, and their avoidance of direct combat. · To put it bluntly, Modriswerg have cast-iron stomachs. They can eat almost anything, despite its age, and still gain sustenance from it. A Modriswerg has a +3 bonus to any saves verses Poison taken through ingestion. They can also eat tainted or spoiled food, or drink impure water; they have a +5 to their Constitution check verses nausea. If the roll is successful, they gain sustenance, if not, they only gain half; they never get nauseous. (See the Wilderness Survival Guide, pages 58 and 60, for more details.) Special Disadvantages: Modriswerg suffer a number of penalties, due to their history, detailed below: · They suffer a general +2 reaction from all, due to their eating habits, which gives them a rather unpleasant odor. They have an additional +1 penalty with Dwarves and Gnomes, who view them as outcasts and miscreants. · All Modriswerg suffer from madness and periods of depression and suicidal behavior. They tend to lose it in periods of high stress, such as near death (hovering at death's door), seeing a valuable project destroyed, or being grossly insulted. After they reach the age of 400, they must automatically make these checks once a year. When this happens, the Modriswerg must make a saving throw verses Petrification, without their racial modifiers. (If the moon is full at the time, he makes the check at -2 penalty.) If he fails, he enters into a period of madness. If not already Chaotic Neutral, he automatically becomes so, and will earn no further experience until he reverts. (If he is already Chaotic Neutral, he suffers no penalty.) While 'insane' the Modriswerg is irrational, unpredictable, erratic, obsessive, and apathetic, to name a few. They become NPC's under the DM's control during this period, which lasts for 1d8+4 days. The player can attempt a Wisdom check and break out of the madness once during the madness, with a -4 penalty, any roll above 10 fails automatically. At the end of the period, he can make a new saving throw verses Death Ray to snap out of it. If he fails, he enters another bout, and he suffers a -1 penalty on the next cycle, which is cumulative. (Some Modriswerg never come out of the madness.) Spells such as heal have no effect on a Modriswerg, their condition is natural, not magical. Racial Enmities: None of note. Rockhome and Northern Reaches dwarves despise Modriswerg, but both tend to stay out of each other's way, and thus there is no bonus or penalty on either side. Additional Experience Cost: None Life Expectancy: 500 years     *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:19:16 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - what titan has to offer this week TSR: (Top Secret) TS004: Operation: Fastpass (7603) [$8.5, F] (Original D&D) Greyhawk (11th printing, April 1979) (2003) [$42, VF] Blackmoor (4th printing, December 1977) (2004) [$43, F] (D&D) (Mystara Campaign) Champions of Mystara Boxed Set (1094) [$16.5, Box VF-Contents NM] (AD&D - 1st Edition) (Generic Modules) D1-2: Descent into the Depths of the Earth (9059) [$26.5, F] I5: Lost Tomb of Martek (9054) [$25, NM] I6: Ravenloft (9075) [$32, VF] UK6: All That Glitters (9126) (insert loose)[$16, VF] (Greyhawk Campaign) WG4: The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun (9065) [$19, F] WG7: Castle Greyhawk (9222) [$61.5, VF] (Rulebooks) Monster Manual (1st Cover) (2009) (name inside cover)[$17, VF] Dungeon Masters Guide (2nd Cover) (2011) [$16.5, F] Fiend Folio (2012) (name inside cover)[$45, VF] Fiend Folio (2012) [$50, NM] Oriental Adventures (2018) [$39, F] (AD&D - 2nd Edition) (Birthright) Player's Secrets of Endier (3105) [$5, NM] (Dark Sun) The Ivory Triangle (2418) [$15, Boxed-N] (Dungeon Master's Rule Supplement) DMGR1: Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide (2112) [$14, NM] (Forgotten Realms) FR9: The Bloodstone Lands (9267) [$29, F] (Misc.) The Magic Encyclopedia, Volume One (9293) [$9, NM] Country Sites (9482) [$11, VF] (Mystara Campaign) Karameikos - Kingdom of Adventure Boxed Set (2500) [$20.5, Box NM-Contents M] Karameikos - Kingdom of Adventure Boxed Set (2500) [$21, Boxed-N] (Player's Handbook Rules Supplement) PHBR1: The Complete Fighter's Handbook (2110) [$14, NM] (Player's Option) (Adventure) The Gates of Firestorm Peak (9533) [$14, NM] (Rulebooks) Player's Handbook (1st Cover) (2101) [$13, VF] - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #457 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 458 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? [MYSTARA] - How about a 3-E conference? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:10:24 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? - ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroletti > I've read a lot of messages about the D&D, AD&D and 3E problem, and I > would like to say a word or two about the thing. (I apologize if my English is > not perfect, I'm Italian and this is my first posting to the list). > I think that there is basically no need for a unifying system for Mystara, Dear brother Mystaran (and everyone else for that matter), I apologize for singling you out. But does it not strike you as ironic that, here you are using a unifying language (English) to discuss and describe the Mystara setting? Game systems are very much like languages. I do not play with the OD&D system, but for me it is a unifying system for this very list. Using the OD&D rules, I can discuss game-related topics with people from all over the world. What Bruce suggests is not BEGINNING to use a unifying system. No, he is suggesting that we make use of another unifying system in order to spread our influence. I am sure he is getting tired of making the following disclaimer... This does not mean tossing out OD&D. Nor does it even mean that anyone is bound by this proposal. I do think we would be well advised though to heed his advice. The MMB is what, a couple of years old now? I have seen several people from other boards come over to the MMB to see what is going on. How could they not? The messages generated there dwarf all the other boards. Often, these players like what they see and ask about material to get started in Mystara. Just imagine if we could point them to 'net material already done in 3rd Edition! Imagine if this group of new players grows, and adds their voices to ours! Even so much hoping, is getting far ahead of the ball. But in my mind, what Bruce is suggesting is common sense. To reject all 3rd Edition material is to put on a pair of myopic glasses. To demand other Mystarans NOT pick up 3rd Edition is to force your narrow view on everyone else. I hope it was clear that this was not directed at one single person. If not, then let me make it clear: This was not directed at one single person. JDaly *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Oct 99 16:21:12 -0500 From: austaran@yahoo.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - How about a 3-E conference? Just a random thought to everyone out there but with the scale of this project I was thinking that it might save bandwidth considerably if we were to use a live forum to air things out. A full record of this chat could then be posted online or even to the MML directly in one big post instead of hundreds of little ones. I don't know about anyone else but it's getting a bit crazy to keep track of this thread. Poor Bruce opened a veritable Pandora's Box here, but I suppose it's for the best since the topic would have come up eventually anyway. I just feel sorry for his poor keyboard. =) But anyways, I'm going on a trip to Texas on wednesday for a week so it will probably be up to everyone else as to the time/day of such an event. I'm offering the use of the Travelers of Mystara message board and chat room for this cause. I know most of the active voices on the list have already signed up so it shouldn't be a problem. For anyone who hasn't heard, visit http://clubs.yahoo.com/travelersofmystara . Everyone on the MML is invited to join. Good luck to everyone and may the Immortals never rain fire on your parades. =) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 17:18:21 EDT From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback there were Mystara Books, and I have them. That's how I got interested in the realm of mystara, was because of the books. They're offered at Titan Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 15:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - OD&D, AD&D2, 3E-D&D -- Standard Net language for Mystara? - --- jdaly wrote: > > This does not mean tossing out OD&D. Nor does it > even mean that anyone is > bound by this proposal. I do think we would be well > advised though to heed > his advice. > I completely agree here. As Leroy pointed out (and he has taken on the personal responsibilty for these things), there is no *official* format for this list. What this means, at leat IMO, is that everyone can feel free to keep posting, discussing, singing the praises of what ever system they feel works best for them as long as it applies to Mystara. However, the more of us that use a common 'vocabulary' to discuss our beloved setting, the more likely that we will attract new lifeblood. Let's face it: newcomers to D&D are going to be 3E players & DMs. Like or not, that is a reality. Whether or not oD&D is easier to learn is, unfortunately, a moot point. Wizards(TSR no longer even exists) will *not* be reviving oD&D. Realistically, you're not going to attract a signifigant amount of new players based solely on OOP material. Therefore, regardless of which system each of uses in our own campaigns, we are serving the greater Mystara community the best by trying to maintain some consistency. Oh yeah, lest anyone think I'm just bashing oD&D, keep in mind that I currently use oD&D and am a major proponent of that system. I am, however, willing to take an objective look at 3E when it becomes available and see if it might be a better choice for "my Mystara" - and even if it isn't and I stick with oD&D, I'm still willing to discuss Mystara topics in a 3E format as a 'common dialog'. Feel free to agree or disagree. But please, folks, let's all at least try to weigh the pro's & con's of the various perspectives before making up our minds. Anyway, just my two kopecs worth... auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 15:08:45 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project >My tentative title for the series is "Tales from the Known >World". I don't intend it to be a narrow field, but possibly >to have multiple storylines and characters. My initial story >idea is of a Minroth Merchant-Prince, who is contracted by >the Guilds to circumnavigate the world and find new ports >and cultures to establish trading relations with. I envision >a sailing ship, and a host of crew that are from many >cultures, nations, and races. (The crew of the Pequod from >Moby Dick is an extremely good visual of this.) I like this idea a lot. I wrote something along the general lines of one entry in this story for the MOrient project. My narrator was an Alphatian from Mafertat, but nonetheless, it might prove useful. You can check it out at http://dnd.starflung.com/mmyanmar.html I'd be flattered if you decided to use the Land of a Thousand Pagodas in your story, or, once you get it started somewhat, I could perhaps write that chapter once they reach the Tangor Peninsula (if they even go that way). Good luck! Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:59:16 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara Did I say metallic dragons? Haha! Fooled ya all! :D What I meant was of course, PLASTIC dragons, complete with psionic-like strip on their bellies to prevent the nefarious Count Erfeight from duplicating them. Plastic dragons come in various colors, including silver, gold, and platinum. They all have in common absolutely no cash mounty haul but instead, they benefit from unlimited credit rating from the DM. The number of eggs in their lairs varies with their credit rate, of course. I'll stop before someone catches me! :D Bruce Heard PS. Coming soon to a lair near you... the PAPER DRAGON!!! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 16:39:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback - --- Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > there were Mystara Books, and I have them. That's > how I got interested in > the realm of mystara, was because of the books. > Did I miss something? I've never even heard of any hardback releases for Mystara let alone seen any... What are the titles of these books? I'd love to check 'em out! Thanks! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 18:27:15 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Aye, that was my thoughts, that we could use such a storyline to introduce many of the player-created places. One thing, though, is that my own feelings are that on Skothar and Davania that there'd be no empires or human dominating cultures, likely Davania would be mostly wild and savage lands, dominated by tribes of many race forms, and Skothar would be really way off stuff, plus the potential remnants of Blackmoor. Your Myanmar sounds extremely promising, but my initial urge is to somewhat scale back their claims of great empires. I know a lot of Mystara fans have been trying to place the equivalent of China somewhere as well in the region, my sentiments are that Myoshima and Ochaela serve well in this regard. (Who said they had to be human? :) I'll keep you apprised of details. IronWolf Patrick Sullivan wrote: > >My tentative title for the series is "Tales from the Known > >World". I don't intend it to be a narrow field, but possibly > >to have multiple storylines and characters. My initial story > >idea is of a Minroth Merchant-Prince, who is contracted by > >the Guilds to circumnavigate the world and find new ports > >and cultures to establish trading relations with. I envision > >a sailing ship, and a host of crew that are from many > >cultures, nations, and races. (The crew of the Pequod from > >Moby Dick is an extremely good visual of this.) > I like this idea a lot.  I wrote something along the general lines of one > entry in this story for the MOrient project.  My narrator was an Alphatian > from Mafertat, but nonetheless, it might prove useful.  You can check it out > at http://dnd.starflung.com/mmyanmar.html > I'd be flattered if you decided to use the Land of a Thousand Pagodas in > your story, or, once you get it started somewhat, I could perhaps write that > chapter once they reach the Tangor Peninsula (if they even go that way). > Good luck! > Patrick > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:36:09 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project > cultures, likely Davania would be mostly wild and savage lands, dominated by > tribes of many race forms, The Davania team has spent many months compiling cool Davanian Lore for projects just like this! (or something..) Talk to Geoff! (or Me, or Alex, or..) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:44:15 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project I personally like this idea, like a M-Magellan(did I spell his name right?)! I would like to see it come out, one interesting thing point though (and I'm sure Jenn and Kevin like this) is that you should maybe submit it to the tome? My thoughts and all, Stewart 3 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:07:25 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Ironwolf, Although I am usually just a lurker on this list. I would love to help in any small way to your project. Matt Wang ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [MYSTARA] - A new project Author: ironwolf (ironwolf@ewa.net) at unix,mime Date: 10/25/99 2:04 PM Greetings. While war wages upon the planes of the Immortals over rules systems, I've been considering something else... I've been planning, half-heartedly and sometimes with greater vigor, the idea of writing my own net series of stories based in the world of Mystara. Naturally, Bruce Heard's work with "The Voyage of the Princess Ark" is a great source of inspiration in this regard. I've also considered lately that I really, for myself, need to start writing something, anything at all, because unfortuantely, I seemed to be cursed to become a writer, and I'd best be good at it. My tentative title for the series is "Tales from the Known World". I don't intend it to be a narrow field, but possibly to have multiple storylines and characters. My initial story idea is of a Minroth Merchant-Prince, who is contracted by the Guilds to circumnavigate the world and find new ports and cultures to establish trading relations with. I envision a sailing ship, and a host of crew that are from many cultures, nations, and races. (The crew of the Pequod from Moby Dick is an extremely good visual of this.) So why am I bringing it up? Well, I could gladly use some help. Submissions of story ideas and characters would be greatly welcomed, and aid in designing areas the ship and crew will be visiting would also be good. If none can do so, then I'll do it all myself, but I'd expect it to take a bit longer than usual in that case. I've not decided yet if I'm going to write it in a journal format like the Princess Ark was, or in a direct 1st or 3rd person format. I should add here, as a personal rant of sorts, that to me, it's always stories that make a campaign world come alive. Most of the campaign settings have done little for me, until I read an exceptional story based upon it. (Faerun was just a hokey name so far as I was concerned, until I read the Icewind Dale trilogy.) More than anything, stories can not only bring life to the setting, but also continue it. (Consider Battletech and Shadowrun, which keep a continuous narrative with every book, and as Forgotten Realms has started to do.) Well, let me know what you think. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:28:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project - --- redrobyne wrote: > I personally like this idea, like a M-Magellan(did I > spell his name right?)! > I would like to see it come out, one interesting > thing point though (and I'm > sure Jenn and Kevin like this) is that you should > maybe submit it to the > tome? We would love to see this! Just a reminder, though, anything submitted to the Tome should not have been submitted to any other forum (including the MML) previously. That being said, send away! :) Our submission address is mystaratome@yahoo.com - please send submission text in the body of your email. Deadline for Issue #2 is December 1st. Jennifer Favia Guerra Editor, Tome of Mystara ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:54:45 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Bruce Heard meandered fecklessly... > SO in fact, what you're saying is that OD&D and other game system never have > been and never will be a standard on this site. That is correct. > One the other hand, if (and I insist on "IF") there is a consensus among > Mystarans on this mailing list that 3E should become even an informal > standard, then this should be no concern of yours. That is not wholly correct. Everything on this list is, in some ways, a concern to me. That's what I am here for. To clarify, those who wish to post stuff in terms of 3e are free to do so. Those that wish to use this list to discuss a formal approach to using 3e with Mystara are free to do so. If someone posts something in non-3e terms, and you want to do a quick conversion for the list, go ahead. I think that pretty much covers it, there. No one is being forced to > do anything here. I think the guidelines I suggested last night made that > pretty clear. Which is why I said... "Looking over all the posts, it seems to me there is some confusion on what is being discussed. Some feel to think it is about some sort of official specific game that is to be used to talk about Mystara on the list. I don't think that is what is really being brought up, but to avoid any confusion, I will lay down the word on that particular point:" > > Mystara is a made up fantasy world, and the only set of rules that is > "best" used to explore it is whatever works best for you and you group. > Anyone who feels otherwise needs to put down their dice get out more often. > > Once again... no one ever said (certainly not I) that anyone's game should be > changed as a result of what I'm suggesting. Right. Which is why I said the above. What you are quoting there was not related to your proposal. It was aimed at the system-jingoism that was starting to rear its head, which is a rather flammable topic. > On the other hand, I > don't see that others should be discouraged from discussing the issue if they > feel like it. This very much IS about Mystara. People can talk about, as long as they remain civil and non-flammable about it all. This is the kind of topic that grows into flames easily. I know this from experience. When I see these kinds of discussions, I know I am going to have to keep a sharp eye on it all. As experience has proven. > > As far as the rest of the discussion goes, I will be watching it very > closely. Any more confrontational nonsense (i.e. "Grow up") will result in > warnings. Either make a point, explore some options, come to a conclusion, > or move on. > > (I thought that's what I was doing all along). Possibly, but the discussion involved dozens of other people. The discussion is now going quite well, for the most part, and I am far less concerned about it. But at that point things were going downhill. > Judging from the example you > picked, it seems you aimed this in my general direction. No, not exactly. It was a clear, memorable example chosen because it easily illustrates my point about what is and is not acceptable. Trust me, when I want to aim something at you, you will get a private e-mail. = ) > Naturally, the last thing I'd want to do is offend you. And you will know when you have offended me. And I don't offend that easily. Again, the discussion is going just fine, and may it continue that way. I am still going to keep a close eye on it, but for now everything seems lovely. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:20:44 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, redrobyne wrote: > I personally like this idea, like a M-Magellan(did I spell his name right?)! > I would like to see it come out, one interesting thing point though (and I'm > sure Jenn and Kevin like this) is that you should maybe submit it to the > tome? Of course we like it! Flattery is the spice of life to people putting out new creative pieces. Seriously, if you want to submit them to the Tome, by all means, do so (mystaratome@yahoo.com, submission in body of e-mail). We're trying to avoid re-posting things that have already appeared on the List or in other formats. If you'd like to do an original piece specifically for the Tome and post your other stuff to the List, that can work too. We're flexible. In any event, I'm looking forward to your stories. Kevin for Tome of Mystara ________________________________________________________ One look in her lusting eyes, savage fear in you will rise Teeth of terror sinking in: the bite of the She-Wolf. --Megadeth, "She-Wolf" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:00:32 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project The Tome of Mystara seems a fine place for it. I should warn you, though, that I'm thinking of starting the 'voyage' closer to 1,000 AC, rather than the 1,015 AC. (May be millennium fever, but I also want to give everyone leeway on defining stuff.) IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" Jenn wrote: > --- redrobyne wrote: > > I personally like this idea, like a M-Magellan(did I > > spell his name right?)! > > I would like to see it come out, one interesting > > thing point though (and I'm > > sure Jenn and Kevin like this) is that you should > > maybe submit it to the > > tome? > > We would love to see this! Just a reminder, though, > anything submitted to the Tome should not have been > submitted to any other forum (including the MML) > previously. That being said, send away! :) Our > submission address is mystaratome@yahoo.com - please > send submission text in the body of your email. > Deadline for Issue #2 is December 1st. > > Jennifer Favia Guerra > Editor, Tome of Mystara >   > > ===== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:08:20 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Just my two piastres I haven't followed this discussion, since I'm not addicted to rules and game system and since I know that I won't change from OD&D to any other game system to play on Mystara (don't have the time to learn a new system, don't have the cash to buy new rulebooks, and happy while playing some kind of loose-rules OD&D). Also, I don't think that I would feel comfortable writing things for the MML or any other electronic mean of publication in any other language than OD&D, for the above-mentionned reasons. However, I agree with Bruce and the other posters who are thinking that a common (and modern) language is needed if Mystara is to continue to live and grow. So, if anybody would provide me with a short file explaining how to translate OD&D into 3E D&D, I would be glad to post it on my website along the stuff I write. In the meantime, I will continue to post things according to OD&D since it is the game that I know the most, and I hope that people will like/use what I send even if it isn't in the same format they use at home. Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 21:17:04 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Greetings. As I was rereading GAZ9 for some needed material and reference, I noticed an NPC listed on page 57 that seems perfect for my story, Saroso Elsan. Even his description matches just what I had in mind! I decided to see what everyone else thought first, though, perhaps someone else has already written something around this character and would prefer it left alone? (Making a character is easily done, I just thought it may be far better to use an existing canonical NPC, at least for the captain.) IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:28:11 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, IronWolf wrote: > The Tome of Mystara seems a fine place for it. I should warn you, though, that > I'm thinking of starting the 'voyage' closer to 1,000 AC, rather than the 1,015 > AC. (May be millennium fever, but I also want to give everyone leeway on > defining stuff.) Older timelines aren't a problem, just so long as they don't re-use or borrow too heavily from published materials. What the heck, just let it fly, see what comes out and send it to us. We have until January to make revisions if necessary. You have my curiosity up, and I can't wait to see it in whatever form you present it. Kevin for Tome of Mystara ________________________________________________________ One look in her lusting eyes, savage fear in you will rise Teeth of terror sinking in: the bite of the She-Wolf. --Megadeth, "She-Wolf" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #458 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 459 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [long] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - Slightly OT: The D&D Movie Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Slightly OT: The D&D Movie Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids [MYSTARA] - Dwarven Mages re:[MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:40:23 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain >As I was rereading GAZ9 for some needed material and >reference, I noticed an NPC listed on page 57 that seems >perfect for my story, Saroso Elsan. Even his description >matches just what I had in mind! I decided to see what >everyone else thought first, though, perhaps someone else >has already written something around this character and >would prefer it left alone? (Making a character is easily >done, I just thought it may be far better to use an existing >canonical NPC, at least for the captain.) Well, I don't have my copy of Gaz9 here, so I can't comment specifivally, but I guess it depends at least partially on when you want to set this. If the Gazetteers are AC 1000 and you wanted to set this in the "present," he'd be 15-20 years older--a big difference if he's not an elf. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 20:41:56 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project >> The Tome of Mystara seems a fine place for it. I should warn you, though, that >> I'm thinking of starting the 'voyage' closer to 1,000 AC, rather than the 1,015 >> AC. (May be millennium fever, but I also want to give everyone leeway on >> defining stuff.) How did I miss this originally? Oh well. >Older timelines aren't a problem, just so long as they don't re-use or >borrow too heavily from published materials. What the heck, just let it >fly, see what comes out and send it to us. We have until January to make >revisions if necessary. You have my curiosity up, and I can't wait to >see it in whatever form you present it. Does the Tome have an "official" present? Or is pretty much anything open game? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:46:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [long] Just got back from a great wedding weekend (not my own, no) to find the important ongoing thread that Bruce Heard began. I was quick to respond to Bruce's proposal when he first posted it since I felt the way it was written was rather profound in plan and meaning. Indeed, even Bruce admits in his initial write-up... "Here's a topic that may prove unpopular for some (sorry!)." Thus my rather passionate response. Yes, his INITIAL idea as written was unpopular with me, and therefore I replied strongly to his proposal in an effort to remind him, and everyone, the purpose of this Mailing List; a forum of -preserving- all things Mystara, which in turn means both OD&D and AD&D game mechanics. I have had a chance to read through all the posts since then, including the insulting reply Bruce later made to my initial post. As he is someone I have come to admire for his efforts in the Mystara field, his words really hurt! But feel entirely justified with what I said! He wanted feedback... "Again, this is just a suggestion. I'm interested in your opinions and ideas." ...I gave him my opinions! In his own words to Leroy Van Camp III, "I sympathize with your concerns, on the other hand, it is also my prerogative to do what I think is right." In all fairness, I share in your conviction, Bruce, and will always uphold what I think is right as well. Thus, my initial reply to your post. Like Leroy and others, this List should NOT be exclusively conducted in the language of 3E D&D, but CERTAINLY in the language of Mystara, however you may define it. I must apologize to Bruce for being suspicious of his position with TSR/WotC. I don't really know him that well, though I hope that will change. My initial post hinted that perhaps Bruce was working to promote 3E D&D for TSR/WotC, rather than Mystara itself. He later clarified in his reply to my initial post, "I'm not being put up to anything by anyone. I don't work for WotC and I've disclosed my personal opinions honestly." I thank him for his honesty in this matter. Now I have only to earn his appreciation for my own honest! ;) For instance, when Bruce said, "I don't feel that OD&D or any other set of game mechanics exclusively "define" Mystara as what it is....", I disagree with him. Like IronWolf, I love the Story of the game moreso than the mechanics. Unfortunately, when it comes to products you can't help but have to wade through the mechanics to get to the meat of the story, partly because the mechanics sometimes need to be interpreted to understand aspects of the Story. They help in defining statistically aspects of the Story, a character or creature, and so to some extent we must respect game-mechanics. They have become a part of the expression of the story, characters, or creatures created or encountered. It is for this very reason that the a game setting can not be completely exclusive in feel from the mechanics. D&D, be it OD&D or AD&D, has traditionally been identified in the gaming world with, for example, the attributes it uses: STR, INT, WIS, DEX, CON, CHA (,COM). So I truly don't think the mechanics can be completely taken out of the Story, even in the social setting of the game. For instance, if I was RPing a guy with a 14 Charisma, and my DM described some bar- maid (heh, yeah, nice choice :P) with as being very attractive in manner and look, I might want to know what the DM would express her Charisma in, statistically, so that I can flesh out my image of the barmaid. So there is an undeniable connection between the setting of the game and the game-mechanic. STILL, whatever the case, this matter is one of personal choice, and the thread has gone beyond this topic. I leave all to decide for themselves on that. :) Bruce has posed many many messages to the List clarifying his ideas for 3E Mystara and this Mailing List. Thanks to these and other clarifications on the List, I must admit to liking some of what he has proposed, as well as the constructive ideas from other List contributers. It is correct to say that I can not stop the coming of 3E D&D, but I would not even try to do so. I've played an Immortal of Time, I understand the concepts of Change, heh.(who says ya don't learn anything from RPGs, eh?) ;D I agree, also, that Mystara can ride the wave of success that 3E D&D will have upon the newcomers it attracts. I see the Fall of 2000 as being a huge advertising campaign for WotC, with the 3E D&D products corresponding with the release of the Dungeons & Dragons movie. "If you built it, they will come."...and they will! :) For this reason, I agree with how things are shaping themselves for the promotion of Mystara in the gaming world. And as it has been mentioned, if we can act now to make the conversions ready for the predicted success of 3E D&D, then Mystara will collect upon this success equal to the amount of effort we put in to it. Again, this does not mean discontinuing the discussion of OD&D and AD&D Mystara, in fact, I think doing so will help to enrich the Mystara gaming background. It is clear, nothing is truly discarded in the corporate business world, so long as their is a market for it. We keep Mystara alive - even contemporary - and it is possible WotC will back it again. I like what I'm seeing. The compromises and clarifications from the many productive posts that I've seen is the main reason for my apparent "turn-around". I was more concerned with this List and it's theme, than any game mechanic, like 3E D&D. I was fighting for the preservation of Mystara, as it is traditionally known, and I will continue to do so, but I also agree there is room for another format of Mystara, so long as it is true to the Heart of Mystara. I'm sure Bruce will help us all maintain that, and I thank him for his backing. We are on track to preserving Mystara together. The glue of preservation that immortalizes the Mystara of our past and present will now work to preserve Mystara in its 3E D&D format, with our efforts. Sounds good to me! Finally, I just want to comment on one last quote from a post Bruce made to Kavuyd, "Obviously I cannot accomplish all this alone nor do I care to try. That's why I'm hoping we can all work as a team here and get something we all feel comfortable with." There's no doubt there's a team here. But part of being a team is being honest in your opinions and putting them forward, even if it means you are in disagreement with an idea. When I disagreed with Bruce to his initial post, that was constructive, even if Bruce didn't like it. I am nothing if not honest. I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade. Still, after clarifications, compromises were made, and I think most of us are happy with where we are now with things. So here's to Mystara. May it forever remain True, regardless of the 'construct' (format) it might reside in. Brad McMillan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 05:54:38 +0100 From: "Hoddie" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara Hi People I don't often post to the list but I have been reading with interest all the posts regarding the proposed use of a common system for Mystara discussion. I am wondering why this is such an important issue as very few new people are likely to play in a Mystara campaign so why everyone feels the need to accomodate them is beyond me - those new/returned to (A)D&D who do choose Mystara over the other fully supported (and lets face it, popular) campaigns are likely to already know of it from their oD&D days, otherwise why would they choose it? Besides, I don't often see rules being discussed on this list - its usually material related to the game world which would fit quite happily into most game systems and not just the various levels of D&D, therefore the game system used by the author is usually academic. The reason I subscribe to this list is because of my enjoyment of oD&D - my love of Mystara stems solely from the relationship it enjoys with that game system. If it was an AD&D campaign, I doubt I'd have actually heard of it. oD&D may be dying and AD&D will soon join the fight for survival but the simple fact remains that Mystara will never be supported for 3E and it is this simple fact which begs the question; Is it really worth all the effort for the sake of the new people (and we're not even talking 3 figures here) who will choose to use the Mystara campaign in years to come. Those who subscribe here do so for their own reasons, but I doubt many of us believe that the future is bright for oD&D or Mystara, so the chances of it luring new players is slim to say the least. I also doubt that many existing subscribers will opt to discuss Mystara using only one game system, so the argument (discussion?) is pointless to start with. At the end of the day, the very fabric of Mystara is embedded within oD&D, so if people still feel the need to associate it with one particular system, then surely this is the easiest and most sensible choice? Not that it will make a blind bit of difference - people will discuss Mystara using terms and rules which they favour and understand - whether this be AD&D or the very first rules covered in the 3 volume set. I hope I haven't offended anyone here, and I realise that everyone is entitled to an opinion. The above is mine. Thanks Paul Holroyd *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:15:43 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Slightly OT: The D&D Movie If anyone out there hasnt heard, which seems unlikely for most D&D roleplayers, there is a D&D movie that is well into preproduction, maybe even production by now. I was wondering if anyone knew whether it is actually going to be set in a particular campaign world? Am just wondering if we are likely to recognise any place names and such. Cheers Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 22:23:21 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain I'm setting it in 1,000 AC. And he is an Elf. :) IronWolf Patrick Sullivan wrote: > >As I was rereading GAZ9 for some needed material and > >reference, I noticed an NPC listed on page 57 that seems > >perfect for my story, Saroso Elsan. Even his description > >matches just what I had in mind! I decided to see what > >everyone else thought first, though, perhaps someone else > >has already written something around this character and > >would prefer it left alone? (Making a character is easily > >done, I just thought it may be far better to use an existing > >canonical NPC, at least for the captain.) > Well, I don't have my copy of Gaz9 here, so I can't comment specifivally, > but I guess it depends at least partially on when you want to set this.  If > the Gazetteers are AC 1000 and you wanted to set this in the "present," he'd > be 15-20 years older--a big difference if he's not an elf. > Patrick > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:47:10 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara >oD&D may be dying and AD&D will soon join the fight for survival but the >simple fact remains that Mystara will never be supported for 3E and it is >this simple fact which begs the question; Is it really worth all the effort >for the sake of the new people (and we're not even talking 3 figures here) >who will choose to use the Mystara campaign in years to come. While I understand your argument, I think this is an overly pessimistic view of Mystara's future. Given what WotC has released to the public and what Bruce has relayed to us of his discussions with them, the TSR magazines will continue to support many different worlds, and Dragon has already said they want Bruce's Tortles article in 3E terms (I think--correct me if I'm wrong). WotC has been, IMO, fairly accomodating to Mystara fans, posting plenty of stuff, both new and old, for free download, and including Mystara not only in the occasional Dragon article but also in at least one 2nd Edition rulebook (the new deities book) released fairly recently. If we can at least convince TSR to give Mystara comparable treatment to worlds such as Dark Sun or Birthright, at least, we can pique people's curiousity. The amount of free information available on the web for Mystara makes it very attractive for anyone who happens to read, say, a description of Mystaran Immortals, who were once heroes who became immortal, and decides to find out what more they can about the setting. I agree that OD&D and 2nd Edition are doomed, and I think Mystara's fate is very iffy. But, if we do commit to a lot of TSR's grunt work, I think we have at least a fairly good shot at either getting "official" status like Ravenloft or, perhaps, an actual re-release. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:21:57 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project IronWolf wrote: > > The Tome of Mystara seems a fine place for it. I should warn you, though, that > I'm thinking of starting the 'voyage' closer to 1,000 AC, rather than the 1,015 > AC. (May be millennium fever, but I also want to give everyone leeway on > defining stuff.) Woohoo! Circa AC 1000 Stuff! I can't wait and am already trembling in anticipation... Jenni (my-campaign-is-in-999AC) Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:44:30 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Greetings. For the first installment of the series, I am planning that the ship and crew of the M.S. Egret (Captain Sosaro's ship) will visit the Thanegioth Archipelago and the Isle of Dread, following the voyages of Rory Barbarosa. To my knowledge, this region is still a wild and fairly unknown area of Mystara. Even assuming a visit by player characters, the region likely remains isolated and unknown. (Despite modern assumptions, it wouldn't be easy to cross the Sea of Dread, even with a long-distance sailing ship.) Aside from the materials in X1, the region is also the location of a large population of Merrows, as detailed in PC3: The Sea Peoples. This is the extent of my knowledge. If anyone has any suggestions or material already prepared they would like to submit, please don't hesitate to let me know! IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:55:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tentative 3E Guidelines In a message dated 1999-10-25 08:42:12 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Query: should metallic dragons, other than gold be on this list? I would repeat my original suggestion -- that they not be available in well detailed regions such as the "Known World", on the grounds that their dragon populations are already given in thorough detail and there is no room for any other dragons. But I see no reason to prohibit such dragons from less detailed regions such as Skothar and Davania. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 03:55:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara In a message dated 1999-10-25 12:44:17 Eastern Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > Actually I'd love one of my players to come > up with such a dwarf -- I'd have a ball sending Glantrian wizards after that > amazing "specimen" just to see what's inside that makes it so different! "By > Rad, and if this were a trend? We must act at once!" :D I should point out that I once hinted at such a development in my own campaign, although the lack of occasion to start a war between Glantri and Ethengar prevented me from making full use of it. What I did was use the analogy of korobokoru wu jen from Oriental Adventures to justify the possibility of dwarves becoming hakomon by studying under Ethen- garian masters of that craft. Naturally, these dwarvish hakomon eagerly join the Ethengars in their next war with Glantri -- and the Glantrians are stunned to see dwarves casting wizard spells back at them. At a much later time, I would have had dwarves learn the craft of the sha'ir in Ylaruam, with similar results in other places. In fact, one interesting result of this would be that non-dwarves would reach an interesting conclusion about dwarves -- for a people who don't like wizardly magic, they seem to be amazingly adept at picking it up in its more exotic varieties. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:23:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Slightly OT: The D&D Movie At 01:15 PM 10/26/99 +0800, you wrote: >If anyone out there hasnt heard, which seems unlikely for most D&D >roleplayers, there is a D&D movie that is well into preproduction, maybe >even production by now. I was wondering if anyone knew whether it is >actually going to be set in a particular campaign world? Am just wondering >if we are likely to recognise any place names and such. > >Cheers >Jason Hiya Jay! Yep, a D&D movie is in the works. I'm not sure where is it in production either, but I can recommend the following site to you to check out what they know about it (and other movies to come!): http://www.islandnet.com/~corona I think there's a link you have to follow to the Production, or Screenings, or movie related site of the place. They have a great up-coming movie list which you can search through specifically or in general, by genre, etc... I haven't been there in a while, but I highly recommend it! If you go there, and find the D&D info, can you post to the List, updating us with what you know? Thanks! :) Brad McMillan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:55:06 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara In a message dated 1999-10-26 00:12:22 Eastern Daylight Time, gf691805@er.uqam.ca writes: > However, I agree with Bruce and the other posters who are thinking that a > common (and modern) language is needed if Mystara is to continue to live and > grow. So, if anybody would provide me with a short file explaining how to > translate OD&D into 3E D&D, I would be glad to post it on my website along > the stuff I write. Most of us would love to see a file like that, but I doubt we will before fall of 2000. Meanwhile all we have to go on are the various pieces of information that have been released, leaked, or rumored about how 3E has developed. It is a lot of information (certainly far more than we knew about 2d edition in the months leading up to its release, for example), but it is still rather incomplete for conversion purposes. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:55:04 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids Okay, the following item should take care of quite a few of the non-standard races if we can get a good handle on it. The various goblinoid races seem to follow a pattern that is repeated for a lot of "monster" races -- we have a default character type that corresponds to some sort of warrior (with advance- ment to level 36 possible), with options for becoming shamans (priests) or wokani (wizards) with very limited level advancement at some point after starting play. How would we convert these character types to 3E? I suspect that the default class for such characters should be the barbarian class, which I assume will be very much toned down from "Unearthed Arcana". Since "evil gnoll rangers" were mentioned around the time of the original 3E announcement, I suspect that the ranger class might be used to represent the elite scouts of that race -- in the absence of further information, I have no idea how well that character type would fit into Mystara. The fighter class probably should not be available to goblinoids who have trouble getting a full suit of armor together. Shamans by default could be treated as standard clerics, although they could be customized to give up some combination of spell spheres and/or standard granted powers (turning undead) for broader weapon access and/or more exotic granted powers. Further elaboration must await revelation of details of the cleric/priest classes for 3E. Wokani are simply primitive mages, who have a slightly more limited repertoire of available spells and who surround their spellcasting with religious rituals that move civilized mages dispense with. One point that is not clear is whether wokani should have the "armored wizard" ability as elves would -- available information from such sources as the Hollow World boxed set on the one hand and the gazetteers and creature crucibles on the other is contradictory on this point. I suspect that all other classes, which in theory would be open to goblinoids, would in practice be unavailable because of the lack of availability of training. However, there is nothing to prevent unusual characters from gaining quite bizarre skills -- for example, an orc who is captured and made to fight in the gladiatorial arena of Thyatis City could become a true fighter, and then after escaping or earning his freedom could become a thief or assassin (if he stays in the city) or perhaps even a druid (if he leaves the city and somehow befriends a druid, for example). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:25:35 GMT From: "Nicolas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dwarven Mages >From: Kaviyd@aol.co >I should point out that I once hinted at such a development in my own >campaign, although the lack of occasion to start a war between Glantri >and Ethengar prevented me from making full use of it. What I did was >use the analogy of korobokoru wu jen from Oriental Adventures to justify >the possibility of dwarves becoming hakomon by studying under Ethen- >garian masters of that craft. Naturally, these dwarvish hakomon eagerly >join the Ethengars in their next war with Glantri -- and the Glantrians are >stunned to see dwarves casting wizard spells back at them. > >At a much later time, I would have had dwarves learn the craft of the >sha'ir in Ylaruam, with similar results in other places. In fact, one >interesting result of this would be that non-dwarves would reach an >interesting conclusion about dwarves -- for a people who don't like >wizardly magic, they seem to be amazingly adept at picking it up >in its more exotic varieties. A possible interpretation: what if the rarity of dwarven mages is not the result of a natural inability or genetic predisposition, but a long-held cultural bias? With the exception of the Kogolors and, to a lesser degree, the Modriswerg, all dwarven culture seen has been of the Rockhome variety, or the Children of Kagyar. According the gazeteer, Dwarves of Rockhome, Kagyar modified these dwarves to prevent Blackmoor's catastrophe from happening again. To this end, Kagyar "encouraged" the dwarves to avoid magic, but left them with the capacity. Why would avoiding magic help prevent another Rain of Fire? Remember that Kagyar was originaly a Brute-Man, or a neandethal, and, although Immortal at the time of the dwarven modification, may not have understood the difference between technology and magic very well. Over the millenia, Kagyar came to realize the difference, and allowed his protege, Garal Glitterlode, to invent a new specie that would be inclined towards magic, the gnomes, so as to see the results. Another possibility: Blackmoor, as many on theis list have suggested, as not powered by pure tech, but a magic-science hybrid, being incapable of fully replicating the Beagle's systems with the limited resources at hand. Kagyar, not as ignorant in this version, decides that the dwarves should be inclined towards one but not the other, so as to be best avoid the humans' mistakes. An artisian at heart, Kagyar chose to encourage the technological arts in his new children. An interesting aside, a careful reading of DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor seems to imply that the dwarves of Blackmoor's time are even less technologically developed than the humans - a blurb in one of the dwarven NPCs bio states that he has been trying to get the conservative dwarven elders to start utilizing the technology being created at the University of Blackmoor, which, since this is DA1, ie, prior to any introduction of alien technology, and based on other information in the module, is what we would call "modern", or 1000+ AC-level weapons and techniques. So how do we know that dwarves are capable of magic-use? First of all, as there are dwarf-clerics, this would indicate a capacity for magic power. Now, I know that clericry (heh, I don't think that's a real word, but I 'll use it anyway) is not the same as wizardry, but a look at the humanoids, such as those in the Orcs of Thar and the Creature Crucibles, leads to a conclusion: most species capable of becoming shamans may also become wokani, and vice versa. Even elves, paragons of spell-book magic, can become, or imitate functions of, shaman/clerics: the shamans of Rafiel, the Treekepers' assitants of Illsundal, and the elves of Graakhalia who follow the gnollish path. Does it make sense that a goblin may become either a shaman (cleric), a wokani (magic-user), or even both, but a dwarf is limited a specific one? Some supplementary evidence: dwarves are capable of crafting magical weapons, by injecting said weapons with their life-essence, or experience. If the dwarves inherently were non-magical, then how could their essence power magic items? This gives rise to another interesting aside: although not required, a Forge of Power can greatly assist a dwaf in the fabrication of magical items. Unlike the clan relics of the elves and the Hin, the other demihumans, Gaz6 presents nothing of real interest via vis the origin or true nature of the dwarven relic: it is not an avatar of Kagyar, it does not contain the energy of another dimension, and, in fact, apparently does nothing more than collect darkness and help forge weapons and armor. Indeed, nowhere does the gazeteer even mention whether the Forge was even created by Kagyar, or whether there are a limited number, as the Trees of Life. Another member of this list (I apologize, I cannot remember who) proposed a while back that the Forge of Power is a hold-over from a proto-Kagyar cult, the focus of worship of the dwarves before the Rain of Fire. An alternate, or supplementary, possibility is it is a remnant of time when dwarves could use magic (great, now I'm starting to sound like Erich von Däniken). The elves of Graakhalia present an intriguing explanation for the current lack of dwarven magic-users: note that the elves who become shamans here do so by progressing under the gnoll experience chart, being, in effect, a gnoll character. Just as there are no Treekeepers in Graakhalia, and no elf-gnoll shamans in the City of the Stars, there are no crystal-shamans in Alfheim (prior to the invasion). What is missing is not some genetic factor, or inherent possibilities, but culture. What if the only reason there are no dwarf magic-users is that there is no opportunity for training in Rockhome culture? A dwarf who was interested in developing such powers as a human magic-user he or she once saw would have to go through a long and difficult period of self-experimentation and research, ultimately culminating in a wokani (he or she could only start at the most primative and basic form of magic-use), the inititation into of such being painful and draining (see the rules about the inititation of wokani and shaman in any work that details them). Furthermore, the dwarf would find him- or herself as a level one wokani (very weak), with only a few, mostly useless spells, the prospect of having to gain vast amounts of additional experience just to gain a few mediocre powers, more draining inititation rituals to come anywhere near the versatility of the human mage, and, from a dwarven view, worst of all, shunned and avoided by all "decent" dwarves. No small wonder that a Rockhome dwarf would not be overly interested in wizardry. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:11:48 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: re:[MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara >Did I say metallic dragons? Haha! Fooled ya all! :D >What I meant was of course, PLASTIC dragons, complete with psionic-like strip on their bellies to prevent the nefarious Count Erfeight from duplicating them. Plastic dragons come in various colors, including silver, gold, and platinum. They all have in common absolutely no cash mounty haul but instead, they benefit from unlimited credit rating from the DM. The number of eggs in their lairs varies with their credit rate, of course. >I'll stop before someone catches me! :D >Bruce Heard I think the old one has lost it... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:24:22 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project >Aye, that was my thoughts, that we could use such a storyline to introduce many of the player-created places. One thing, though, is that my own feelings are that on Skothar and Davania that there'd be no empires or human dominating cultures, likely Davania would be mostly wild and savage lands, dominated by tribes of many race forms, and Skothar would be really way off stuff, plus the potential remnants of Blackmoor. Your Myanmar sounds extremely promising, but my >initial urge is to somewhat scale back their claims of great empires. If you have read Mystaros Epic Timeline, you may believe that these places (and Brun too) where ONCE really "way off". (go back and see "the golden empire" and th "draconian empire"). I agree with you about things in Skothar and Davania could be way different. In Davania they are, according to what the Davania team is doing. I also agree with you about , there isnt a need for an oriental campaign in Skothar (sorry MOrient team...) but since there isn't a more detailed work (is there?) I cant say I have better ways to popukate the continent. I once had ideas about filling it with a few dwarven kingdoms, and Thri Kreen, and remenents of a mighty Giant empire (not a big empire, an empire OF giants). But Skothar has been worked on a lot by the MOrient team, so you should at least concider reading their sork. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #459 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 460 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara [MYSTARA] - Immortals I Have Known Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids Re: [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value [MYSTARA] - [3E] Dwarf wizards. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 00:43:44 -0500 (CDT) From: CronoCloud@webtv.net (Ron Rogers) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara >>Until it is released, the 3rd edition is >>vaporware. Once it is released I can judge >>how well Mystara will work with the system. >>[Cronocloud] >Actually... there's already plenty of 3E stuff >floating around that you can have a peek at. >Else, if what you're implying is that WotC may >drop their plan to release 3E (??) you can >forget that. I've been in the business for 15 >years and it's pretty obvious to me that their >plan is not vaporware. Outside signs of this >were the commitment of WotC CEO, Peter >Adkison, in front of the public at GenCon along >with such celebrities as Dave Arneson and >Gary Gygax. The presentation itself was very >good and obviously, it is pretty clear the WotC >machinery is in gear for an on-time release. I >have a copy of the 3E PHB next to my >keyboard to attest that the work has been >done in earnest. Does this alleviate your >concern? Actually it does alleviate my concern a bit. I just think we need to temper enthusiasm with caution. For example the conversion of Mystara into an AD&D setting was supposed to be a good thing. We were supposed to get lots of new products and more people were going to know what we were talking about. But we got overpriced CD based products and TSR seemed to throw all their marketing efforts and money behind Dark Sun and Planescape. Which was to be understandable since the TSR staff was and is composed of grognard hard core gamers who want more complexity and rules, not less. >>Any time a setting is converted to a different >>rules system some flavor is >>lost. For example, I could convert the >>Realms to OD&D, but it would not be the >>same. >I don't agree with you. If we do the job >ourselves, I doubt it'll be as bad as you say. I am not saying it would be bad, just that some flavor is going to be lost no matter what. I do think that we could do a better job at it than TSR/WOTC. >>Besides if we want new players, then >>TSR/WoTC/Hasbro has to do their part >>too by aggressively going after the mass >>market. They need to get their products in >>every K-Mart/ Wal-Mart/small town >>bookstores in the nation. >It is a fallacy to assume traditional D&D can >make it into mass-market. D&D is a hobby >game by definition and, although some >mass-market retail stores may indeed pick it >up, it remains very difficult for WotC to sell >D&D to them. Some retail companies don't >even want to hear about D&D. If WotC >manages to get either WalMart or KMart to >pick it up, I'll be very impressed. Besides, what >should this matter to anyone here? The goal is >not necessarily to please or help WotC in any >way, but merely to make it easier for new >players to get into Mystara. The next wave of >players is very likely to be 3E -- and that's >where we should be if we want to benefit from >it. My first D&D rules set (the Tom Moldvay edited Red Basic Box) was ordered from the old Sears Wish Book back in '81. Sears is as mass market as it gets. I can buy those infernal Magic cards in my town. I consider Magic to be a "hobby" game so why not get 3rd edition D&D into as many places as possible. Dragon Magazine is actually printed in my hometown, but you can't buy it on the shelf either. Video game console RPG's used to be considered "niche" products, but now look at them. By the way I consider TSR's electronic gaming efforts to be too PC focused. >If finding 3E material in your hometown is your >concern, you can always order the ones you're >pretty sure about, like a PHB or a DMG for >example. Price should be pretty competitive. I >think I remember Peter Adkison at GenCon >pledging that the PHB and the DMG will >remain at or less than $20 each. Granted >that's a total of $40 for both PHB and DMG if >you decide to buy both, plus a Monstrous >Manual, I presume. This compares to $25 >back in 1991 for the single Rules Cyclopedia. >Sure, this adds up -- but you can't really fault >WotC here. They are in fact offering >hardbacks for five dollars less today than back >in 1991. Nowadays, they should probably go >for $30 each. Their profit margin on these two >books has got to be fairly small. >Bruce Heard Recently, I was in a bookstore and saw paperback versions of some of the AD&D core books. I thought that it was a good idea unitl I saw the price. The paperback version of the Tome of Magic did not cost any less than my hardbound version. I can understand inflation and all, but wages have not kept pace with inflation. For example, if wages had kept up with paperback book prices the minimum wage would be around $12.00 an hour. I do plan on picking up the 3rd edition material when it comes out, And I do hope to be able to buy the core books for less than $20.00 each I always thought that the RC was a better deal at $25.00 than the PHB was at $20.00 because the RC contained everything you needed to start, player rules, DM rules, monsters, and some info about the setting. ( I missed picking one up though.) I do hope this clarifies my position. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) AKA Elcalear Dracul, Knight of the Grand Duchy/Kingdom of Karameikos, Graduate of the Great School of Magic (Glantri), Dracologist of the Fourth Circle, Licensed Necromorph Exterminator. Perhaps Elcalear should invite Dolores Hillsbury to have tea with HIM. As IronWolf says, "It's Specualum, damn it." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:42:16 GMT From: "Nicolas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortals I Have Known Are Immortals the only beings of their respective level of power that sentient, mortal beings can acheive, and does immortality vary from plane to plane? Before I explain, I would like to introduce some vocaublary I will use in this discusssion, for the sake of clarification: athanasia (adj.): the quality of being deathless, of being immortal athanasist (n.): in this context, refers to any being of Immortal-level power, but not necessarily an Immortal, a being possesing athanasia; any being that is capable of using Power, and is of a higher-level than Exalted, as exalted is presented in Wrath of the Immortals Gold Box (n.): the Immortals Set, the fifth set, the original rules for Immortals, being the sucessor to the Masters Set; Wrath of the Immortals was based on the Gold Box Immortality (adj.): the state of being Immortal (note the capital "I") Immortal (n.): a specific type of being, that which is described in the Immortals Set (Gold Box) and Wrath of the Immortals, typically divided into five spheres; most Immortals were at one time mortal, and achieved Immortality through one of several Quest-Paths, but there are exceptions immortal (adj.): see athanasia immortal (n.): an athanasist, a being that only faces true and final death on its home plane, or under other such specific and rare circumstances Quest-Path (n.): a set of specific and delineated trials and obstacles a prosceptive candidate for Immortality must overcome before a sponsoring Immortal will grant Immortality to candidate; at present, six exist, but only five have been detailed: the Dynast (Sphere of Time), the Epic Hero (Sphere of Thought), the Paragon (Sphere of Energy), the Polymath (Sphere of Matter), and the Conqueror (only open to humanoids, indefinite Sphere); the Quest-Path for the Sphere of Entropy has not yet been detailed To better explain the vocabulary, Immortality is a specie of the genus athanasia, while Immortal is a specie of athanasist (under an Aristoliean classification system). At this point I will also disclose a preference for the Gold Box over Wrath of the Immortals; I do not, however, believe them to be incompatabile in almost any regard, and see Wrath of the Immortals as being a simplified version of the Gold Box, designed to present Immortals as powerful, campaign forces, while the Gold Box was primarily interested in presenting Immortals as PCs; since they can be both, and the Gold Box explains in more detail such things as the Nightmare Dimension (rather more complicated than the description given in Wrath of the Immortals; I would also recommend readin a copy of Flatland by Abbott to better understand the dimensions), I would recommend accquiring both. It seems to me, based on my readings of various Mystara material, that Immortals are not the only beings of their level of power, and here I do not refer solely to beings obviously created to serve as monsters for an Immortal-level campaign, such as draeden, repeaters, and demons (who are Immortals in any event). These beings are athanasists, and I include among their number the elemental rulers, the spirit lords, the Immortal Dragons, the great giants, and other miscellany. These beings are all at the same level of power as Immortals, but are clearly not Immortals. Most of them officially are listed as having Power, and it would seem appropriate to give Power to the others who were not included in the Gold Box. It would seem further appropriate to label each of the above as the "Immortals" of their plaane/race/et c., although I prefer to label them athanasists. But what of their nature? Size equates to power amongst the elementals, and the Elemental Rulers are the largest of their kind. In the Immortal modules, IM1-3, they are lsited as possesing Power, and are more than a match for the low-level Immortals that will be encountering them in the course of the adventure. Elemental Rulers can also grow in strength and power, just as Immortals can, and can grant wishes. As the ultimate powers on their plane, it seems as though the immortality that elementals acheive is not that of humans and their ilk, but is instead a variant of their own, Elemental Rulership. A brief aside on the Elemasters: for those of you who do not have the Gold Box, their are four Immortal Elemasters (Immortal as defined above, not Elemental Rulers), and the Box describes them as being the highest power of their respective elemental planes. However, since they seem to be more than a little deranged, and constantly plot to prevent any from achieving their rank, I theorize that the Elemental Rulers pretend the Elemasters are in charge, giving them meaningless powers and responsibilities, all the while running everything by thmselves. The Elemasters spend all of their time making pronouncements, to which the elementals nod revertly, and then promptly forget. The only Known World humans who seem to know of the Spirit World are the Ethengars; Dawn of the Emperors specifically states the Planar Geography skill gives no knowledge of its existence (which makes perfect sense under my theory of cosmology, which I will present in a slightly later post). Although information is sketchy, we do know that the Spirit World faces the same sort of strife and conflict found in Mystara, and that creatures from this world can grow in power, from basic spirits, all the way to Spirit Lords. Although not described as such, the power and rank of the Spirit Lords is immense, and I believe it is appropriate to term Spirit Lords the Ultimate Power of the Spirirt World, just as the Elemental Rulers above. I also feel that they should have Power attacks, just as Elemental Rulers. Immortal Dragons are a little different; according to the Gold Box, they cannot rise above their current stats, and thus, although they are labeled Immortal, they do not seem to fit in with standard Immortals. It also seems, from such evidence as Gaz3 and AC10 Bestiary of Dragons and Giants, that Pearl, Opal, Diamond, and The Great One are positions rather than individuals, and that there can be many Immortal Dragons. Perhaps the most striking difference between standard Immortals and Immoral Dragons is the path each takes: dragons achieve Immortality by accquiring treasure, not by undertaking one of the Quest-Paths. Similar statements apply to the great giants; giants can achieve Immortality, AC10 states, by becoming masters at whichever art their particular race is a specialist at, and they would seem to thus be in the same boat as the dragons. Gaz7 briefly describes great giants, as a means of reconciling the powerful, god-like giants of the Norse sagas with the relatively underpowered giants of the D&D game. Immortal giants would not seem to be quite the same as Immortals, but information is regrettably lacking. According to the rules, however, a particular mortal is not necessarily limited to their form of immortality, with respect to their plane or race. Terra was supposedly once an Earth Elemental, Yamuga, Tubarak, and Cretia are spirits than attained Immortality, rather than Spirit Lord-ship (according to Gaz12, Wrath of the Immortals assigns Terra, Ixion, and Loki to them respectively, but I prefer the gazeteer's view), human mages from the School of Dracology can reach Dragon Immortality, as can Elementalist with respect to their elemental plane. Even Harrow, a diaboli, achieved Immortality. The above has been the answer to the question I poised at the beginning, but I would enjoy list input on this subject. Is Immortality better than the other forms? Why would one seek immortality outside of one's plane/race? What does this pose for the Old Ones? "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:35:28 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Okay, the following item should take care of quite a few of the non-standard > races if we can get a good handle on it. The various goblinoid races seem > to follow a pattern that is repeated for a lot of "monster" races -- we have a > default character type that corresponds to some sort of warrior (with advance- > ment to level 36 possible), with options for becoming shamans (priests) or > wokani (wizards) with very limited level advancement at some point after > starting play. > > How would we convert these character types to 3E? I suspect that the > default class for such characters should be the barbarian class, which > I assume will be very much toned down from "Unearthed Arcana". > Since "evil gnoll rangers" were mentioned around the time of the original > 3E announcement, I suspect that the ranger class might be used to > represent the elite scouts of that race -- in the absence of further > information, I have no idea how well that character type would fit into > Mystara. The fighter class probably should not be available to goblinoids > who have trouble getting a full suit of armor together. I've never seen a fighter as anything but a character who fights alot. And I haven't thought that any military training would be required to assume this class. This is also why I dont see the need for the introduction of a barbarian class. Anyway, I still think the fighter should be an available class, but it depends on how it is presented in the rulebook... > Shamans by default could be treated as standard clerics, although > they could be customized to give up some combination of spell spheres > and/or standard granted powers (turning undead) for broader weapon > access and/or more exotic granted powers. Further elaboration must > await revelation of details of the cleric/priest classes for 3E. Sounds reasonable. I think we should open up for having Humanoid clerics being just as powerful as human and demihuman ones.. > Wokani are simply primitive mages, who have a slightly more limited > repertoire of available spells and who surround their spellcasting with > religious rituals that move civilized mages dispense with. One point > that is not clear is whether wokani should have the "armored wizard" > ability as elves would -- available information from such sources as > the Hollow World boxed set on the one hand and the gazetteers and > creature crucibles on the other is contradictory on this point. Maybe the sorcerer class could be an option here? Possibly not though, as charisma is the prime requisite for that class... Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:37:32 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > PS. Coming soon to a lair near you... the PAPER DRAGON!!! Why is the paper dragon so rare? It breathes fire.... POOF! Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:17:42 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB4.7D920A0B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you? As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If you are talking about something else, Please elaborate. ASEO our - -----Original Message----- From: Scoooman@aol.com [mailto:Scoooman@aol.com] Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 4:18 PM To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback there were Mystara Books, and I have them. That's how I got interested in the realm of mystara, was because of the books. They're offered at Titan Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB4.7D920A0B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback

You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you?  =

As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red = Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the = Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items = published.

If you are talking about something else, Please = elaborate.

ASEO our

-----Original Message-----
From: Scoooman@aol.com [mailto:Scoooman@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 4:18 PM
To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures = Hardback


there were Mystara Books, and I have them.  = That's how I got interested in
the realm of mystara, was because of the = books.  They're offered at Titan
Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be = worth it to you.

Meltheim the Shadowstalker
    Infiltrator to the = Immortals
        Devotee = of Fate
          &nb= sp; Eyes of the Starwatcher
***************************************************************= ************
To unsubscribe from this list send mail to = majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com
with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of = the message.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB4.7D920A0B-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:37:06 -0700 From: Eleanor Williams Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback - --------------AE8369420250DD428BCD65EB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have them in hardback, got a couple in paperback. Decided not to buy anymore, because didn't think they bore much resemblance to Mystara, myself. Have found that books that take place in a game setting usually haven't been good! Tho, perhaps I'd have enjoyed them if I'd been younger and less "jaded." > You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you? > As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), > some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor > Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If > you are talking about something else, Please elaborate. > -----Original Message----- > From: Scoooman@aol.com [mailto:Scoooman@aol.com] > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback > there were Mystara Books, and I have them. That's how I got > interested in > the realm of mystara, was because of the books. They're offered at > Titan > Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you. - --------------AE8369420250DD428BCD65EB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have them in hardback, got a couple in paperback. Decided not to buy anymore, because didn't think they bore much resemblance to Mystara, myself. Have found that books that take place in a game setting usually haven't been good! Tho, perhaps I'd have enjoyed them if I'd been younger and less "jaded."
You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you?
As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If you are talking about something else, Please elaborate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scoooman@aol.com [mailto:Scoooman@aol.com]
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback
there were Mystara Books, and I have them.  That's how I got interested in
the realm of mystara, was because of the books.  They're offered at Titan
Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you.
- --------------AE8369420250DD428BCD65EB-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:55:35 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB9.DFB45432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" There are no Mystara/Known World hardbacks! That was my original point. There is one for FR, GH, and DL, even Oriental Adventures, but no "Mystara/Known World Adventures" hardback. I was wondering why? Now maybe the Almanacs have made up for the lack of a "Mystara Adventures" hardback. What do you all think? Is there a Mystara product that equates to the hardbacks that were published for the other game worlds? (remember, the other settings all have "world x box sets" as well) ASEO out - -----Original Message----- From: Eleanor Williams [mailto:ewilliams@onlinemac.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 8:37 AM To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback I don't have them in hardback, got a couple in paperback. Decided not to buy anymore, because didn't think they bore much resemblance to Mystara, myself. Have found that books that take place in a game setting usually haven't been good! Tho, perhaps I'd have enjoyed them if I'd been younger and less "jaded." You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you? As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If you are talking about something else, Please elaborate. - -----Original Message----- From: Scoooman@aol.com [ mailto:Scoooman@aol.com ] Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback there were Mystara Books, and I have them. That's how I got interested in the realm of mystara, was because of the books. They're offered at Titan Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB9.DFB45432 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
There are no Mystara/Known World hardbacks!  That was my original point.  There is one for FR, GH, and DL, even Oriental Adventures, but no "Mystara/Known World Adventures" hardback.  I was wondering why?
 
Now maybe the Almanacs have made up for the lack of a "Mystara Adventures" hardback.
 
What do you all think?  Is there a Mystara product that equates to the hardbacks that were published for the other game worlds? (remember, the other settings all have "world x box sets" as well)
 
ASEO out
-----Original Message-----
From: Eleanor Williams [mailto:ewilliams@onlinemac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 8:37 AM
To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback

I don't have them in hardback, got a couple in paperback. Decided not to buy anymore, because didn't think they bore much resemblance to Mystara, myself. Have found that books that take place in a game setting usually haven't been good! Tho, perhaps I'd have enjoyed them if I'd been younger and less "jaded."
You aren't talking about the GAZ set are you?
As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If you are talking about something else, Please elaborate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scoooman@aol.com [mailto:Scoooman@aol.com]
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback
there were Mystara Books, and I have them.  That's how I got interested in
the realm of mystara, was because of the books.  They're offered at Titan
Games, but like I said before, the wait may not be worth it to you.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FB9.DFB45432-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:11:53 GMT From: "Nicolas Hudson" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value I was wondering whether anyone on the list used the armor value rules given in the Thyatian Player's Guide in Dawn of Emperors. I would appreciate anyone who has andecdotes and suggestions on using these rules to comment; I'm thinking about integrating them into my campaign, but would like to hear from other people who have used it first. Thanks in advance. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:18:16 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - [3E] Dwarf wizards. Actually I'd love one of my players to come up with such a dwarf -- I'd have a ball sending Glantrian wizards after that amazing "specimen" just to see what's inside that makes it so different! "By Rad, and if this were a trend? We must act at once!" :D [Ambreville] What I did was use the analogy of korobokoru wu jen from Oriental Adventures to justify the possibility of dwarves becoming hakomon by studying under Ethengarian masters of that craft. [Kaviyd] Well, I can surely see many interesting -and funny- application of 'dwarf magic'. Still, I see a major problem in that. >From what I remember, the reason why there are not dwarf wizard is not a cultural one, but a physical one: i.e. that the dwarf race has been build in such a way to be highly resistant to magic ... including the one casted by themselves! This is the reason why dwarf clerics are not able to turn undead... ... this means that -in a 'canon' D&D Mystara- : 1) You are certainly in your own right to allow a player character dwarf wizard, if he enjoy it. But you should at least come up with some reason why this resistance is somewhat lower in this specific character -and this is not for balance, but just for coherence. A physical barrier is much harder to circumvent than a cultural one: I guess that -for instance- a dwarf wizard could find himself fumbling with his spells rather often >:-) 2) For the same reason, you could create a couple of NPC that have some peculiar history behind them, and are able to cast some spells. 3) On the other hand, I don't think you could have groups of medium size of dwarves able to cast spells, just because they studied something somewhere... and surely they should NOT be particularly adept to pick spells. This is of course sticking to 'canon', which I understand could be pretty boring, but it's just an attempt to not change the world of my players under their feet, so to speak. I completely agree that you campaign could be very funny with these changes. This led me -to become more productive, as Bruce says- to the first 3E question: should dwarf wizards be allowed in 3E or not? In my opinion, in Mystara not. And this of course does not mean that single, very specific situation can not be allowed (any rule can be violated). But the flavor of a world is given by the GENERAL, and most -IMHO- of the peculiar Rockhome culture is tied to their _physical_, peculiar resistance to magic. Thus enforcing the disallowing of dwarf wizard (may be the only combination really not allowed in Mystara, the other I agree can be dependant only from OD&D) and a peculiar class of dwarf clerics, without turning undead and with some little more peculiarity (can';t remember them all). - -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #460 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, October 26 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 461 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (two versions) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (don't have to buy 3E after all) Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread [MYSTARA] - GH, FR, DL, Mystara equivalents? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (two versions) Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals I Have Known [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (A Hopeless Future) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Flying on Fumes) [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: the Wizard of Frobozz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Patrick Sullivan wrote: > Does the Tome have an "official" present? Or is pretty much anything open > game? The only thing "Official" about the Tome is that it must be original work, and must have something to do with Mystara. Timelines, older material, alternate timelines, game system don't matter. Kevin for Tome of Mystara ________________________________________________________ One look in her lusting eyes, savage fear in you will rise Teeth of terror sinking in: the bite of the She-Wolf. --Megadeth, "She-Wolf" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A new project - --- IronWolf wrote: > The Tome of Mystara seems a fine place for it. I > should warn you, though, that > I'm thinking of starting the 'voyage' closer to > 1,000 AC, rather than the 1,015 > AC. (May be millennium fever, but I also want to > give everyone leeway on > defining stuff.) If it's Mystaran, and it's good, it can be written in 1000 BC! ;-) Seriously, though, we realy do accept submissions of anything Mystaran, regardless of game system, setting, timeline, etc. Even your own version of Mystara, where it's 1700 Ac and the countries are barely recognizeable. We can't wait to see what you come up with! Jenn for Tome of Mystara > "It's Specularum, damn it!" Sorry, I _like_ Mirros. ;-) ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 08:38:24 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Adventures Hardback Well, it may not be hardback (and I doubt form matters too much to anyone), but B1-9: In Search of Adventure seems like it is basically what you're talking about. Unfortunately, it seems very rare and fairly expensive. I think large compendiums of such products as B10-12 and the X, CM, M, and maybe IM adventures would be great, but I'm not sure they're very realistic. There's a massive wealth of Mystara information available for TSR to print, but before they do so they must be convinced that 1) they will be able to turn a profit (expect to pay around $30 for a 5-module series); 2) there is a significantly large market (plenty of people didn't buy the $30 2nd Edition products, at least not new, so they'll be very leery); and 3) the Mystara reprints will not hurt sales of their other mainstream products. If something like this were to have any chance at success, I would expect that it would come after MML members have done a great deal to convert older Mystara stuff to 3E. TSR would not release 1 big book of everything--after all, the other adventure hardbacks were designed to attract players to the setting. I'd figure they'd pick around five adventures that could fit together. For example, Lion's Castle (is that MSolo? I forget), X3, X11, and X13--ok, so it's four--could fit well into a single compendium, or all the CM and M Adventures in Norwold, perhaps. Prices would be very high--in the order of $25-35 each. The adventures within would likely be slightly updated where they need it (X4 would be changed significantly, X6 and X9 might be left out entirely) and converted to 3rd Edition. There are no Mystara/Known World hardbacks! That was my original point. There is one for FR, GH, and DL, even Oriental Adventures, but no "Mystara/Known World Adventures" hardback. I was wondering why? Now maybe the Almanacs have made up for the lack of a "Mystara Adventures" hardback. What do you all think? Is there a Mystara product that equates to the hardbacks that were published for the other game worlds? (remember, the other settings all have "world x box sets" as well) As far as I know those, the modules (box sets/Red Steel/Hollow World), some articles in DRAGON/DUNGEON Magazine and the Poor Wizard's/Joshua's Almanacs are the only Mystara items published. If you are talking about something else, Please elaborate. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:38:57 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 99-10-26 02:45:50 EDT, ironwolf@ewa.net writes: << If anyone has any suggestions or material already prepared they would like to submit, please don't hesitate to let me know! IronWolf >> As discussed waaay back, I placed an Ispan settlement on the easternmost island, named Nueva Ispan~ola... I could send you some basic details if you like. It still a fairly primitive colony... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:51:52 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (two versions) > What Bruce suggests is not BEGINNING to use a unifying system. No, he is suggesting that we make use of another unifying system in order to spread our influence. I am sure he is getting tired of making the following disclaimer... [Jeff Daly] Well, that's not entirely correct. I'll crosspost here something I submitted elsewhere, which I think addresses this issue more specifically. One big misconception about what I'm proposing is this presumed "standardization" of the rules or of the Mystara setting. I DON'T want to standardize, unify, or otherwise combine anything at all. I'm envisioning a "canon" Mystara mostly revolving around OD&D and probably another *separarate* version based upon the prevailing game system (nowadays 3E and no doubt some other version ten-fiften years from today). This requires a guide to use a common LANGUAGE on the net when dealing with Mystara in order to more easily bridge the two versions. The OD&D Mystara remains the baseline, the reference standard to which the other version draws its roots -- this does not change regardless of what's out there. The 3E version, on the other hand, does change according to the evolution of D&D over the decades. If and when we get to 4E, then another adaptation needs to take place, not from 3E to 4E, but from OD&D Mystara directly to 4E, perhaps using experience acquired in the process of creating the 3E version earlier. Does this make more sense? But, yes, you're right saying I'm getting tired of making the same disclaimers! I guess this is unavoidable considering the number of members in this list and the number/length of posts in this thread. :o) Bruce heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:51:53 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (don't have to buy 3E after all) > I agree with Bruce and the other posters who are thinking that a common (and modern) language is needed if Mystara is to continue to live and grow. So, if anybody would provide me with a short file explaining how to translate OD&D into 3E D&D, I would be glad to post it on my website along the stuff I write. [Christian Constantin] Thanks. Actually, I'll crosspost another piece from the MMB which I think will make everyone's lile easier... :o) > I sure hope such guidelines would be available to everyone (place them on Shawn's site for example). I think we need to establish general parameters on how to proceed with this project and what we want to accomplish, at least until we feel comfortable we have enough details on 3E to start work in earnest. This alone could take a while. > Hopefully, the guidelines will be clear enough for non-3E players to be able to follow and then that their posts on the net give the "illusion" that they were written for 3E in the first place! Therefore, you might NOT need to purchase 3E after all. > I also want these guidelines to be useful to 3E players as regards to OD&D and respecting the flavor and characteristics specific to Mystara. I'd like to avoid as much as practical any major rifts between the two versions of Mystara. More later... Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:11:27 +0200 From: Jamuga Khan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? > The "Ecology of..." DRAGON magazine articles are > usually written IC, with the OOC stats given as > footnotes. With the new DRAGON Archive CD-ROM, it'd be > easy to use Adobe Acrobat (I believe that's the > Archive's format) to edit out the OOC notes, and give > the rest to the character/player. Is this DRAGON Archive CD-ROM worth its prize? I've seen it today and it costs DM 135.00 (appr. $65). I've decide to buy it not, at least not today... Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:22:50 -0500 From: Theron Bretz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? (unlurking) I ordered it through Amazon.com and paid $US 30.70 including UPS shipping. Theron Bretz Houston, TX - -----Original Message----- From: Jamuga Khan To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? >> The "Ecology of..." DRAGON magazine articles are >> usually written IC, with the OOC stats given as >> footnotes. With the new DRAGON Archive CD-ROM, it'd be >> easy to use Adobe Acrobat (I believe that's the >> Archive's format) to edit out the OOC notes, and give >> the rest to the character/player. > >Is this DRAGON Archive CD-ROM worth its prize? I've >seen it today and it costs DM 135.00 (appr. $65). >I've decide to buy it not, at least not today... > > > > Jamuga Khan > > >"Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law!" >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:52:37 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread > >In a message dated 99-10-26 02:45:50 EDT, ironwolf@ewa.net writes: > ><< If anyone has any suggestions or material already prepared > they would like to submit, please don't hesitate to let me > know! > > IronWolf >> Didn't the venerable Carl set his fascinating story for the first issue of the Tome (featuring the lost Northman colony) on the Thanegioths? Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:18:43 -0500 From: "Albert Edward Capt. 552 CSG/SCXX" Subject: [MYSTARA] - GH, FR, DL, Mystara equivalents? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FDE.8626CAAE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Well, it may not be hardback (and I doubt form matters too much to anyone),> >but B1-9: In Search of Adventure seems like it is basically what you're >talking about. While B1-9 is nice, GH has GDQ1-7 (which IMHO is better than B1-9), T1-4 and A1-4, FR has I3-5. These are just super modules and don't really equate to the information contained in the hardbacks. Now, a lot of the hardback information is also covered in the "World X" box sets. I know that FR and GH both have these. In what TSR product can you find a map of the entire Known World? Where do you find a listing of the various Immortals and their Powers? Where do you find information on Mystara specific Character Classes/Social Organizations? I know all these items are out there in TSR print, but they are all separate, aren't they? This is the type of information that has been consolidated in the other worlds hardbacks. Is there a TSR print Poster Map of the Known World? Which product did it come in? Here is how I see Mystara items comparing to FR, GH, and DL items. B,X,C,CM,IM series modules = GH A,U,T,G,X,Q,WG series modules = DL DL,DLE,DLS,DLQ series modules = FR Some I,FRQ,LC series modules GAZ1-14 = GH world of GH box set,GH folio = DL Dwarven Kingdom, DL16, DL atlas = FR FR1-16,world or FR box set Almanacs/WotI = GH GH:WARS,GH:From the Ashes, = DL Time of the Dragon,Tales of the Lance,(and as much as I hate it)DL5th Age, Novels = FR The novels seem to be the main force in changing the face of this world ????????(perhaps the closest that Mystara gets is: the Basic,Expert,Companion,Master and Immortal rules) = GH Greyhawk Adventures hardback = DL Dragonlance Adventures hardback = FR Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback What do you think? ASEO out - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FDE.8626CAAE Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GH, FR, DL, Mystara equivalents?

>Well, it may not be hardback (and I doubt form = matters too much to anyone),>
>but B1-9: In Search of Adventure seems like it = is basically what you're
>talking about.

While B1-9 is nice, GH has GDQ1-7 (which IMHO is = better than B1-9), T1-4 and A1-4, FR has I3-5.
These are just super modules and don't really equate = to the information contained in the hardbacks.  Now, a lot of the = hardback information is also covered in the "World X" box = sets.  I know that FR and GH both have these.

In what TSR product can you find a map of the entire = Known World?

Where do you find a listing of the various Immortals = and their Powers?

Where do you find information on Mystara specific = Character Classes/Social Organizations?

I know all these items are out there in TSR print, = but they are all separate, aren't they?

This is the type of information that has been = consolidated in the other worlds hardbacks.  Is there a TSR print = Poster Map of the Known World? Which product did it come in? =

Here is how I see Mystara items comparing to FR, GH, = and DL items.

B,X,C,CM,IM series modules
=3D GH A,U,T,G,X,Q,WG series modules
=3D DL DL,DLE,DLS,DLQ series modules
=3D FR Some I,FRQ,LC series modules

GAZ1-14
=3D GH world of GH box set,GH folio
=3D DL Dwarven Kingdom, DL16, DL atlas
=3D FR FR1-16,world or FR box set

Almanacs/WotI
=3D GH GH:WARS,GH:From the Ashes,
=3D DL Time of the Dragon,Tales of the Lance,(and as = much as I hate it)DL5th Age, Novels
=3D FR The novels seem to be the main force in = changing the face of this world

????????(perhaps the closest that Mystara gets is: =
the Basic,Expert,Companion,Master and Immortal = rules)
=3D GH Greyhawk Adventures hardback
=3D DL Dragonlance Adventures hardback
=3D FR Forgotten Realms Adventures hardback


What do you think?

ASEO out

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF1FDE.8626CAAE-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:39:10 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (two versions) On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:51:52 EDT Ambreville@aol.com writes: > One big misconception about what I'm proposing is this presumed > "standardization" of the rules or of the Mystara setting. I DON'T > want > to standardize, unify, or otherwise combine anything at all. I'm > envisioning a "canon" Mystara mostly revolving around OD&D and > probably > another *separarate* version based upon the prevailing game system > (nowadays 3E and no doubt some other version ten-fiften years from > today). This requires a guide to use a common LANGUAGE on the net > when > dealing with Mystara in order to more easily bridge the two > versions. > The OD&D Mystara remains the baseline, the reference standard to > which > the other version draws its roots -- this does not change regardless > of what's > out there. The 3E version, on the other hand, does change according > to > the evolution of D&D over the decades. If and when we get to 4E, > then > another adaptation needs to take place, not from 3E to 4E, but from > OD&D > Mystara directly to 4E, perhaps using experience acquired in the > process > of creating the 3E version earlier. Does this make more sense? > > > Bruce heard Oooooh. This does help me understand what you are talking about, Bruce. I like this idea very much. I had mixed feelings about it at the start, but the more I hear about it, the more I like it. I think that the idea presented earlier about a Mystara 3E website that we could present to TSR sounds like a good idea, also, along the lines of the Ravenloft site. I checked it out, and it seems very do-able. If no one else wants to do it, I would be more than happy to write it when the time comes. What does everyone else around here think about the Mystara 3E website? John Hofmann P.S. Are my posts coming out looking like they were formatted by some type of maniac? This Juno thing doesn't seem to be working out as well as I thought, and I was wondering how it looked to receive posts originating from here ... ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Immortals I Have Known > The above has been the answer to the question I poised at the >beginning, but I would enjoy list input on this subject. Is Immortality >better than the other forms? Why would one seek immortality outside of one's >plane/race? What does this pose for the Old Ones? Great write-up, btw, Nick! :) I, too, find the philosophies of Immortality and the Spirit Realm very interesting. To your question: is Immortality better than the other forms? I would like to reply with my own thoughts. With my own character experience in attaining Immortality, and later finding out that my character was in fact a Fae all along (long story! 4+ years worth of story to be honest), I find that I like to establish a system of beliefs for my characters based around who they are and where they come from (culturally & geographically), amongst other things. This leads to why my character would also consider attempting to attain Immortality, which can also be said for any being, Prime Planar, or otherwise. If they have the opportunity and desire to strive for something greater, they are open to such ascension. As you can see from the example of my own character, you can imagine there would be some strange expressions of belief between him being an Immortal and a Fae, but both allow for insight in to the "bigger picture" of the universe. Indeed, these two factors and the experience of coming across Dragons, pursuing Dracology as a mortal, and encountering and studying the various beings as an Immortal have allow me to weigh the differences of such "forms", as you say, with each other. Ultimately, I have found that by applying a bit of Taoist philosophy ("What is, -is-.", kinda thing), I feel I have a complete understanding of the these various "forms" of immortals, fundamentally speaking. My primary angle is to understand the -nature- of the being and respect it, since it is what the being is, no more and no less. A being is bound by the bias of their nature, be they mortal or immortal, and ultimately each serves a purpose in the cosmic play of existance. The Immortals - those humans and other Prime Planar beings - each correspond to a specific sphere, which is conceptual in nature. Time, Thought, Matter, Energy, and Entropy. It is by belief that the level system within the Immortal hierarchy represents ones ascension towards ultimate conceptuality. In other words, as a Novice Temporal (who was once a mortal human, for example) would be 10% Immortal and 90% "Mortal". What I mean by "Mortal" has more to do with the humanity of the individual - the young Immortal clearly doesn't fully understand their role in the big picture, has yet to find their niche, and is basically a baby with a shotgun, so to speak. This is expressed through their Intelligence score ranging in the Temporal catagory from 3-25, then 26-50 as Celestials, and so on. The Temporal only has so much potential within them to understand the universe. Their role is essentially simplified as Immortals go, because of their limitation. As one rises in rank and level, one becomes more and more what their Sphere is, be it Time, Thought, etc... until finally as a Hierarch they -are- Thought, or Time, or Energy, etc.... Conversely, the higher one rises in rank and level, the less they retain their humanity, or that which links them to their mortal self. They are metamorphesizing. No matter where they are in their Immortal climb towards Hierarch level they are in the position of power they are suppose to be. For the balance of the multiverse, whether they are a Hierarch, or a Initiate level Temporal, each is vitally important for the stability of their Sphere as it pertains to the multiverse. But perhaps I digress. Does reaching Immortality make one better than a Dragon, a Great Giant, or an Elemental Ruler? I guess I could just simply answer this by saying, "No. Each serves their own purpose in existance, and their Natures, by design, help to insure their purpose (or Destiny) is fulfilled. As a result, the multiverse remains stable and/or in balance." All immortal beings are a part of the orchestra that manages the universe, which is why it is so darn difficult to get rid of them! Maybe I should have said this right from the start. ;) Interestingly, one should also examine the Natures of the Planes, and the Multiverse overall, since it, too, with it's bias', is a living "entity" which influences how these immortal beings act/react. Anyhow, I hope I've given you an answer, although I'm sure I've just left you more confused with more questions than before! :P :) I apologize for that is the case! Brad McMillan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:02:26 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (A Hopeless Future) > oD&D may be dying and AD&D will soon join the fight for survival but the simple fact remains that Mystara will never be supported for 3E and it is this simple fact which begs the question; Is it really worth all the effort for the sake of the new people (and we're not even talking 3 figures here) who will choose to use the Mystara campaign in years to come. [Paul Holroyd] It sounds like you're saying this: "Mystara is dying, but since I'm still having fun with it just the way it is, why should anyone bother?" It is a valid opinion although I don't share it. Even though Mystara is now an obscure setting centered around a deader-than-dead rules system, I still think it can go on at least for a while longer. I'm just not ready to dismiss Mystara's future. Just looking at what members of the MML, for example, have accomplished demonstrates it. Obviously, no one is going to join the Mystara bandwagon without some help. As I pointed out earlier, I think the best way to attract some interest for Mystara is promoting it ourselves, in our games at home or at conventions, inviting new players to join. The more we can get this way, the better chances Mystara has of surviving. This may not work -- but at least I think it's worth a try. It's clear to me that "pushing" a version of Mystara that relies upfront on 3E would be more capable of achieving that goal than convincing 3E players to learn a long-OOP game system. Since the next wave of D&D players will most likely be 3E players, let's get ready for them now. Or at least, let us consider the possibility and talk about it instead of dismissing it entirely on fears that one's game habits might be affected. Other than this, you made a series of other points. They are fine but just as valid counterpoints have been made earlier. I don't care to belabor the point (check them out if you have the time/desire). One more thing -- perhaps an easier path here is to provide guidelines good enough that the massive amounts of existing data need NOT all be converted. I can see one benefit of doing so: once new people start showing up to use a 3E Mystara, then we can work at converting a few of them to the OD&D system. Give them *enough* good stuff in 3E to attract them, make them feel comfortable among the internet groups, BUT give them even more in OD&D to pull them in totally! Isn't this a great trap!? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:02:34 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Flying on Fumes) > Most of us would love to see a file like that, but I doubt we will before fall of 2000. Meanwhile all we have to go on are the various pieces of information that have been released, leaked, or rumored about how 3E has developed. It is a lot of information (certainly far more than we knew about 2d edition in the months leading up to its release, for example), but it is still rather incomplete for conversion purposes.[Kavyid] Most of the posts are of stat-free persuasion anyway. It was suggested elsewere that posts focus on this particular "style" during the interim (from the moment there is a consensus about a 3E Mystara version and the moment 3E rules are indeed available). So the urgency of devising a true conversion for game mechanics is not overbearing. Either we can find ways that are acceptable with WotC to deal with specific 3E mechanics before the release of the PHB, or obviously we'll have to wait. So far, they've been pretty clear -- I'm not entitled to reveal anything specific (I'm still looking into this). Every month they do release some tidbits on the WotC website and we can look at that -- I can guide you a bit if you trust me. Other than that, I think the focus should be on studying general parameters for this 3E project, seing what it should accomplish, if/what/how 3E Mystara may be affected, etc. People have mentioned monsters, character abilities, spells (and so on) as being potentially troublesome. The MMB has a thread going about "Gods vs. Immortals". Based on what we do know, why not start drafting a tentative list of questionable features (perhaps using 2nd Edition as a starting point)? Etc. There's some groundwork that needs to be done before we start messing with details and personal preferences. One things that's been coming up elsewhere is taking this as an opportunity to modify existing aspects of Mystara even though these modifications have nothing to do with 3E. I'm not in favor of that, but some may disagree. There's plenty to talk about. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:06:49 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons > Why is the paper dragon so rare? > It breathes fire.... > POOF! No, no, no... It breathes paper clips! What else!? What if it's an aluminum foil dragon, huh, huh? :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #461 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 462 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - GH, FR, DL, Mystara equivalents? Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future [MYSTARA] - Site update! [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts Are Not Allowed on the List Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Flying on Fumes) Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts Are Not Allowed on the List [MYSTARA] - More ideas for "Path of Conqueror" Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:25:54 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons In a message dated 99-10-26 15:09:09 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com writes: << What if it's an aluminum foil dragon, huh, huh? :D Bruce Heard >> Just don't go lobbing Melf's Microwave Ray in it's direction... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:15:02 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - GH, FR, DL, Mystara equivalents? While I am not very familiar with most of these products for other settings, I have no doubt that Mystara's products (except for the RC, probably the single most useful and cost-effective product TSR has ever released) are less useful than their equivalents in other settings. I think there are several reasons for this: 1) OD&D products packed a lot more information into a much smaller package than do more recent WotC products--K:KoA and G:KoM have about the same amount (if not less) of information as the Gazetteers for three times the price and in 4-5 times as much space. 2) Greyhawk's rerelease was an attempt to attract new players to that world, particularly in light of the 3E announcement that only Greyhawk and FR will be the only widely-supported systems--it makes a lot more sense to make stuff available for these settings then to risk it on a dead or dying setting, especially since most of that setting's fans would complain that they already have all those adventures, so they're not going to pay to get stuff they already own. 3) 2nd Edition Mystara was an experiment with cd adventures. This was at least a significant part of its failure, but who would have paid $15 for Hail the Heroes if they could have had ten times as much information without the lousy cd for a comparable price? 4) The Almanacs, like them or not, did a great job of providing an overview of the world, and they included a lot of the stuff that other settings needed a boxed set for. 5) You're asking too much per book, IMO. 14 gazetteers in one book? Plenty of people weren't happy with the job they did converting Gaz1 and 3 into two large boxed sets! Remember, the original gazetteers contained close to 100 pages each, with much smaller and tighter print than is standard in later TSR and WotC releases--that's easily a 2,000 page book you're asking for, not even including all the color maps, punch-out things, and counters in the Gazetteers. Nor does it include anything from DotE, which, IMO, was insufficient anyway. Basically, I completely agree with everything you've said, I just don't think it's at all realistic. It's nice to dream, but WotC, Hasbro, or whoever's making the decisions are all profit-driven corporations. If WotC cancelled Ravenloft and Dragonlance because they were cannibalizing FR and Greyhawk sales, it is a complete pipe dream to think they might be willing to support Mystara, especially if we insist on sticking to the OD&D rules. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 02:56:27 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A Possibility for Mystara's Future At Sun, 24 Oct 1999 21:24:37 -0500, Aaron E Nowack wrote: >Note: The basic premise of this post is that unless something radical >happens, Mystara is most likely never going to be reprinted, especially >with TSR cutting back on strong sellers like Ravenloft and Planescape. Okay, now I HAVE to step in to clear a minor but IMPORTANT point. Since I've seen a couple of you referring to Ravenloft as a term of comparison, let me just say that Ravenloft was not a "strong seller" campaign, not in the last two years anymore, at least. According to WotC and TSR surveys, it was one of the favourite campaign worlds back in 1993-95, but the "fave world to play" never really corresponded to a "strong sales campaign." This became quite obvious in the late 90s and it was because of this that TSR stopped the ongoing trend to produce MANY supplements (for each campaign world in general and for RL in particular) each year and focused just on 2-3 supplements. Quality over quantity they said, but somebody had already guessed the truth. To make a long story short, Ravenloft has been cut because WotC thought to be better to stop supporting the line with published products and tried to use RL's popularity among the fans to experiment the first attempt at supporting the setting officially on the net. (see below) >Anyway, I was looking at the Kargatne website (for those who don't know, >the Kargatne is the official fan site for Ravenloft), and I noticed that >the Kargatne is going to produce free, official products to continue the >line once it is cut back in 2000. Why the Kargatane site could achieve this incredible result? This is because the Kargatane guys (which IMHO are very smart as well as incredibly creative and determined) were already deeply linked with the Kargat (RL designers at TSR) and had a good relationship with WotC's staffers and managers. They had their support from the beginning, and the fact that a couple of them even worked for the company as writers or playtesters (on top of them all, John Mangrum even put his name on the last published product for RL, near the name of Steve Miller, one of the first fathers of the setting) only reinforced the feeling that the Kargatane site could have been used to further RL on the net. But there's a last consideration to make in order to understand why RL got this special treatment : the Kargat WANTED to make RL live on. There are several TSR authors that have volounteered to help the Kargatane produce high quality products for their site and the RL line simply because they love the setting and hope it will live on, maybe to be returned to paper products one day. These people will get NO MONEY from TSR for their work, mind you, but they'll give some of their time and intellectual resources to the creation of these net products simply because they love writing for RL and the RL fans. Now this and the fact that TSR is officially sponsoring their efforts is obviously something to keep into consideration before making comparisons.. >Now this set me to wondering if we >could perhaps get a similar agreement with TSR for Mystara. The benefits >of this are pretty large: official recognition of net-products like the >NAs and a possible greater chance of getting permission to scan and post >OOP products (possibly updated to 3E) or have them sold on a compilation >CD. Well, not to be pessimistic Aaron, but I don't think WotC really cares about Mystara. "So," you could object, "they will have nothing against sponsoring an official Mystara site, since they don't care, right?" Well, I don't know how things work in WotC, but I seriously doubt they'll give away their copyrights to the first who asks for them. I mean, one thing is not caring about a campaign, another one is giving permission to write and distribute on the net something "officially endorsed by TSR". Ravenloft is a big deal and they don't want to lose it, obviously. Besides, there are people inside TSR who can oversee what's going on and set the guidelines for what's acceptable and what's not, so they have the thing under control. With Mystara, it's a big question mark. How many newbies could be attracted by a long dead world? How much resources should we devote to this kind of project? And also, if we approve an official Mystara site that produces canon net-products, it will have to keep in line with TSR's rules, and that means everything will be published in 3Ed format (which is what the Kargatane will do). Also, this means the site must be of high-quality standard to attract the visitors and give decor to the line, and that's no easy feat man. >Of course, there is also a downside, which is that TSR would have to >approve whatever things we want made official. Indeed, and this is not a minor point at all. What did I want to say with my letter? Am I in favour or against an official Mystaran site? I for one would love to be part of the chosen ones who could keep Mystara alive as an official product of TSR on the net, but if this means I have to comply to restricting rules and fixed deadlines I'm sorry but I'd rather decline. I think it's good to have many unofficial Mystaran net-products, and with a single official Mystaran site, all other Mystaran net-stuff could probably soon plunge into oblivion, and that's a shame. Well, call me a chaotic, but I'm definitely in favour of a pluralistic view of Mystara, at least over the net... ;) I'm not telling you not to try to establish such a site and to convince TSR to officially support Mystara. In fact, in a little corner of my heart I hope you'll realize this project, maybe cause this would mean Mystara has awakened from her slumber and we'll finally see great online products like what the Kargatane is publishing right now. I do hope you'll realize this, but in case u don't, it doesn't really matter, since we're already keeping Mystara alive ;) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:42:38 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: [MYSTARA] - Site update! Hello everyone! Just a quick note to say that my geocities site has been updated yet again - - another installation of Gerhard's journal is now availale for your perusal. The next installment will cover the most recent session: a friendly little emissary from Those That Should Not Be pays the Party a little visit - available soon! :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:02:57 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) For example the conversion of Mystara into an AD&D setting was supposed to be a good thing. We were supposed to get lots of new products and more people were going to know what we were talking about. But we got overpriced CD based products and TSR seemed to throw all their marketing efforts and money behind Dark Sun and Planescape. Which was to be understandable since the TSR staff was and is composed of grognard hard core gamers who want more complexity and rules, not less. [Cronocloud] ...which clearly illustrates what can happen if there is no involvement at all from people who have at least an interest. 2E Mystara was a really bad example of how things can go wrong. None of the people originally involved in the development of Mystara participated in the updated setting, the creative directors got switched at least three times after I had left, but on top of that the team in charge was denied at the last minute the plan that they had come up with. They had to reshuffle everything they had designed AND deal with loaded issues such as being ordered to include CDs produced on the west coast by the CEO's own brother (not to mention their key creative lead quitting in the middle of that project). Talking about bad examples... Obviously, we don't have such issues to plague us! This just isn't relevant here. Dark Sun you say??? Eh, nope. That was not a product in favor with TSR's upper management back then. Actually it had been on the line between life and death for a while already. Planescape was just marginally better treated. The real money back then went into FR, DragonDice, and various ill-fated attempts at hitting the mass-market. Remember the Dragonstrike video? Hooya! If you only knew... :D > I am not saying it would be bad, just that some flavor is going to be lost no matter what. I do think that we could do a better job at it than TSR/WOTC. Hey, at least we agree on something! Have you seen the standing list of main features that have been judged as establishing Mystara's flavor the best? So far, NONE of these features have anything to do with game mechanics. This is even less meaningful to people who concentrate on roleplaying rather than stats. It becomes even less meaningful when you realize this is all done merely to establish a common language for communicating on the net -- i.e., most posts are "stat-free" anyway. So yes, there may be some changes with a 3E Mystara version, but in my opinion they will not detract from the original feel. Furthermore, that should not be a concern to "canon" Mystara hardliners, since they are not likely to play with this setting. This boils down to a tempest in a teapot. > My first D&D rules set (the Tom Moldvay edited Red Basic Box) was ordered from the old Sears Wish Book back in '81. Sears is as mass market as it gets. Actually... what you just wrote tends to support what I said earlier. What we have here is "one" of a short list of mass market retailers distributing D&D for a limited period of time in nearly 20 years. If D&D were a natural mass-market product, I think we'd know by now. Did you see ANY roleplaying product lasting very long on a mass market shelf? And it's not TSR's fault in this case. They tried until blue in the face to have WalMarts and KMarts pick it up; they just ran into tightly closed doors. Period. > I can buy those infernal Magic cards in my town. I consider Magic to be a "hobby" game so why not get 3rd edition D&D into as many places as possible. Dragon Magazine is actually printed in my hometown, but you can't buy it on the shelf either. It's a question of proportion. Sales of Magic far exceeded those of D&D. There was no lengthy explanations needed to sell them. "Bah, it's a collector card game... Okay, put it over there with the baseball cards". A wonderful no-brainer and a brilliant marketing victory! Of course you can find them in mass market retail stores. WotC's Pokemon license is an even greater success. Dragon Magazine is lo-o-o-ong way before ever achieving such numbers. The market just isn't the same. > Video game console RPG's used to be considered "niche" products, but now look at them. By the way I consider TSR's electronic gaming efforts to be too PC focused. What does this have to do with the 3E Mystara discussion, Ron??? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:03:08 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) > I think that the idea presented earlier about a Mystara 3E website that we could present to TSR sounds like a good idea, also, along the lines of the Ravenloft site. I checked it out, and it seems very do-able. If no one else wants to do it, I would be more than happy to write it when the time comes. What does everyone else around here think about the Mystara 3E website? [John Hoffman] Sure. Actually, WotC is working on the idea of an official Mystara web site hosted on a WotC server. Maybe what you are suggesting could be created there too. I could see one Original Mystara site (focusing on OD&D) and another, perhaps smaller and specifically designed to attract newbies (focusing on the prevailing D&D rules -- 3E obviously). There could be links between corresponding topics on both sites... as well as MML/MMB links (etc). This is yet one more BIG reason why we must look very carefully at a 3E Mystara version and begin serious thinking soon. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:03:03 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) > This led me -to become more productive, as Bruce says- to the first 3E question: should dwarf wizards be allowed in 3E or not? In my opinion, in Mystara not. [Ezio] By "Mystara" you meant "Know World", right? Surely there could be other sorts of characters, races, and monsters in other continents than Brun. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:44:42 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts Are Not Allowed on the List Folks, In the recent spurt of e-mail I have seen several people post on HTML rather than plain text. HTML is not allowed on the list, as it tends to cause problems with the digest version and some people's e-mail programs. So please check you e-mail program's settings and preferences to insure you are posting only in plain text. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:25:17 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Ironwolf- there has been some discussion recently about possibly incorporating the nations of Cathos and Vacros (from module MSolo2: Maze of the Riddling Minotaur) into the Thanegioth Archipelago (ie, transplanting them onto one or more of the islands in the chain). Unfortunately, we didn't really get much of a consensus on things, but if you're interested, I can show you a map I've done for a possible location, as well as some notes on what I've come up with for possibly putting Cathos there in the chain (history, culture, NPCS, etc.) - ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:40:51 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) > Sure. Actually, WotC is working on the idea of an official Mystara web site > hosted on a WotC server. Maybe what you are suggesting could be created there > too. I could see one Original Mystara site (focusing on OD&D) and another, > perhaps smaller and specifically designed to attract newbies (focusing on the > prevailing D&D rules -- 3E obviously). There could be links between > corresponding topics on both sites... as well as MML/MMB links (etc). This is > yet one more BIG reason why we must look very carefully at a 3E Mystara > version and begin serious thinking soon. I'm not sure whether I'd like an Official Mystara again. I think it's doing just fine as a _fan_ created world. Or maybe it's just that I'm working my free time away on fleshing out Bruce's Snartan Empire, and I don't want some "official" WoTC floozy cramming up "my" area with "canon" :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:50:42 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Flying on Fumes) In a message dated 1999-10-26 15:06:29 Eastern Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > The MMB has a thread going about "Gods vs. > Immortals". Based on what we do know, why not start drafting a tentative > list of questionable features (perhaps using 2nd Edition as a starting point)? If we take Immortals as an example, the worst problems with trying to convert them from OD&D to 2d edition AD&D seem to evaporate if we convert to 3E instead. 2d edition has two major stumbling blocks to achieving Immortality and then quantifying a character who has succeeded in doing so: 1) Demi-human advancement limits, and 2) Ability score limits (nothing above 25) In 3E both of those problems go away -- all characters can advance to any arbitrary level, and the ability score charts are open-ended. So I would imagine that once we have the 3E PHB in hand, it should be almost a no-brainer to dig up an old copy of WotI and convert the stats directly. I can foresee some minor problems with converting characters of certain monster races, of course -- but if figuring out the strength of a sea giant Immortal is the worst of our problems, we would be in great shape. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:50:44 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? In a message dated 1999-10-26 13:14:19 Eastern Daylight Time, JamugaKhan@gmx.net writes: > Is this DRAGON Archive CD-ROM worth its prize? I've > seen it today and it costs DM 135.00 (appr. $65). > I've decide to buy it not, at least not today... Let's see -- that's 250 magazines plus all issues of its predecessor "Strategic Review". And given how long it has been since the last Mystara article in Dragon magazine, you get EVERYTHING that has ever been written about Mystara in Dragon by Bruce Heard or by anybody else, for that matter. I thought it was worthwhile even though I have paper copies of every issue from #40 or so on. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:09:17 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 This general list summarizes major features defining Mystara's feel as a world setting. It includes comments made by several people and remains open, should other relevant features come to light. 1) Mystaran Cosmogony: Mystara is a separate universe independent from the Spelljammer/Planescape reality. Mystara has a magical sky shield, and anti-magic ring, polar openings, an entire hollow world, an invisible moon, etc. 2) The Known World's Structure: Distinctions by culture in smaller areas vs. distinctions mostly by race across larger areas. All areas of the Known World are clearly defined by their borders and very well detailed (geographic features, population figures, etc). 3) Real World Inspiration: Mystaran cultures are fantasized adaptations of RW historical models. On the other hand, very different cultures are often immediately adjacent regardless of RW racial or geographic models. 4) Cultural Dynamics: most Mystaran cultures and races show complex interactive links between each other and on-going master-plots driving their past and present histories. No culture is considered truly evil or good, as such perceptions are based upon local misconceptions and biases. 5) Politics/Economy: Well-developped economy and politics among people and nations remain a trademark of Mystara. Decisions made by the various rulers have a direct impact on everday life. Seeking either to become rulers or get involved with the business of established heads of states is a recurrent feature for adventurers. 6) High Fantasy/High Magic: Mystara blends a high degree of magic into its system. Regions like Nithia, Alphatia, and Glantri have developed specific fields of magic (constructs, flying ships, Secret Crafts, etc) to a high degree. Nearly every region has its own brand of magic -- some cultural, some job-oriented, some racial, etc. 7) Multifaceted NPCS: Each realm harbors a multitude of well-developed heroes, villains, and leaders (and as many guilds and secret sects) cast interchangeably as allies OR enemies on the whim of the DM and the PCs' own biases. Mystaran NPCs demonstrate motives, misconceptions, and alliances DESIGNED to entangle with one another, behind the scenes. 8) Role-Reversals: Where else would lycanthropes seek to PUBLICLY establish themselves as a political lobby, or subterranean elves be NICER than some of their surface-elves rivals, or merfolk cheerfully explain how humans evolved from THEM...? Mystara frequently allows what-ifs, thought-experiments, and in-jokes to be explored, where other settings would dismiss them as silly or frivolous. 9) Immortality: Characters and monsters can become divine beings, which in turn affects "religion" in Mystara. The personality, motivations, and abilities of Immortals are highly detailed, as well as their interaction with mortals. Immortals are not related to gods of other game settings. 10) Game Restrictions: These are legacies of Mystara's original game system which limited in particular racial and character abilities as well as certain monster types. It is generally assumed that NPCs created for the Known World should conform to the original model. However, character and racial features available in 3E should remain largely available for PCs. Regions outside of the Known World are also fairly tolerant of 3E character types and monsters. Highly intelligent monsters are usually adapted specifically to one of Mystara's settings. Gun powder is not available, except for smokepowder in the Savage Coast region. Psionics are also alien to Mystara. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:25:35 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World - The Captain Nations in a legendary lost world region? That doesn't sound right to me... Unfortunately I don't have that module, so I am unable to make use of it. Unfortunately as well, it's become apparent that as I write, I'm going to have to shoot down some people's ideas of what goes where, and I'll probably end up making enemies as a result. (Oh well.) IronWolf Andrew Theisen wrote: > Ironwolf- there has been some discussion recently about possibly > incorporating the nations of Cathos and Vacros (from module MSolo2: Maze of > the Riddling Minotaur) into the Thanegioth Archipelago (ie, transplanting > them onto one or more of the islands in the chain). Unfortunately, we > didn't really get much of a consensus on things, but if you're interested, > I can show you a map I've done for a possible location, as well as some > notes on what I've come up with for possibly putting Cathos there in the > chain (history, culture, NPCS, etc.) > ----- > > Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen > Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout > jsmill@wans.net > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:55:14 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 In a message dated 1999-10-26 23:11:36 Eastern Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > 4) Cultural Dynamics: most Mystaran cultures and races show complex > interactive links between each other and on-going master-plots driving > their past and present histories. No culture is considered truly evil or > good, as such perceptions are based upon local misconceptions and > biases. As an example to support this thesis, we need look no further than the mind flayer as depicted in the "Illithiad". I suspect that few on this list would argue against my suggestion that mind flayers as depicted in this work are just too nasty for Mystara. If you want to create real conflict on Mystara, just get two Lawful Immortals into a major quarrel.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:55:17 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids In a message dated 1999-10-26 08:37:48 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > I've never seen a fighter as anything but a character who fights alot. And > I haven't thought that any military training would be required to assume > this class. This is also why I dont see the need for the introduction of a > barbarian class. > Anyway, I still think the fighter should be an available class, but it > depends on how it is presented in the rulebook... I would agree with that point -- it all depends on how barbarians are depicted in the 3E rulebook. I am currently assuming that barbarians are a bit tougher than fighters (rolling d12 rather than d10 for hit points) and have more stealth and survival skills as opposed to raw power with weapons and armor. If these assumptions are true, then goblinoids would probably work better as barbari- ans than as fighters. Of course, I am perfectly willing to do an abrupt "about face" if the information about he 3e barbarian class is very different from what I am expecting. As for the issue of whether such a class is even necessary -- there is no point in debating that one, WotC has pretty much said that they will include that class in 3E. The only remaining question for us is what we will do with it, if anything. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:55:46 -0400 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] HTML Posts Are Not Allowed on the List >In the recent spurt of e-mail I have seen several people post >on HTML rather than plain text. HTML is not allowed on the list, >as it tends to cause problems with the digest version and some >people's e-mail programs. Yes, this is true. Thank goodness you said something (and now I hope those your message was referring to will realize you were referring to them!) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:25:19 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - More ideas for "Path of Conqueror" At one time I think I mentioned that I thought of using the "Path of the Conqueror" as the path to Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy. Upon further reflection it occurred to me that this idea would work if we but added one feature to distinguish it from the Sphere of Time's "Path of the Dynast" -- namely, the issue of succession. While a Dynast (who may also be a conqueror) needs to establish a stable succession for two generations, a Conqueror hoping to achieve Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy is forbidden to do so. On the contrary, it is necessary not only for a Conqueror to destroy a civilization superior to his own but to leave the issue of succession in such an uncertain state that a civil war will immediately break out upon his removal from mortal affairs. He can achieve this goal in one of two ways -- by having no named successor, or by having three or more successors, with no way to resolve the claims of one as superior to those of another. Either way, the resulting civil war should be more than enough to wipe out every non-spiritual gain of the Conqueror who just became an Immortal. Needless to say, the fate of any candidate for Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy who has a peaceful succession when he is removed from the scene would be quite unpleasant. An interesting implication of my ideas is that Alexander the Great would be the best real world candidate for Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy. Genghis Khan might have come close except that his heirs were not at one another's throats quickly enough.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:38:29 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Defining Mystara -- Version 2 >This general list summarizes major features defining Mystara's feel as a world >setting. It includes comments made by several people and remains open, >should other relevant features come to light. I would also suggest 11) the vast array of races available for PCs. I wrote out a list a while ago, and I figured out that there are somewhere around eighty different PC races available in canon sources alone, from gnolls and Rakasta to Ee'ar and Nagpa. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #462 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 463 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Fwd: Online Gaming in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) [MYSTARA] - [3e] Dwarves and elves. [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? [MYSTARA] - The Isle of Dread [MYSTARA] - the dragon CD Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: [MYSTARA] - the dragon CD Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value [MYSTARA] - Updated Guidelines for 3E Mystara Project [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (on web sites) Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (on web sites) Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 20:48:54 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fwd: Online Gaming in Mystara Hey all André posted this to the MMB and asked that it be forwarded to the list: Hi, all I know I have never seen a gaming post here, I hope you don't mind this, as it is Mystara related. I have an Irc campaign going on for a little more than two years and a few players have had to drop from the game now (they might come back later, but right now they are not showing up). So we need a few players to round things up. We play at Tuesday's nights, starting at middnight, GMT, or 7pm, american eastern time. One of the players has been posting the logs of our sessions at http://www.waveone.net/whytemage/menu.htm so, if any of you get interested, just check te site and you can read most of the story. And please, don't answer to the board, answer me privately at acrmartins@sol.com.br Thanks, André Martins P.S. If someone could please post it in the MML also, I would really appreciate it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 01:45:04 -0500 (CDT) From: CronoCloud@webtv.net (Ron Rogers) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) You have made some excellent points. I am not opposed to 3rd edtion Mystara conversion faq or anything else. I was surprised at some of the inside management info in your posts. I became a regular reader of Dragon for quite a while thanks to the VotPA. I consider the glory days of Dragon being from about #153 to the low #200's What is the Admiral up to now? Did he ever marry the Lady Abovombe? I actually made up some "April issue" Princess Ark songs, some years back, but never sent them in. I have always thought that Elves and N'djatwa would make the best "Red Shirt" security officers for skyships. They can fight and cast spells. Is N'djatwa pronounced like one,two,three in French? Too bad Etienne or Haldemar couldn't have visited the "Wizards Three". He He He. Ron Rogers *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:47:33 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - [3e] Dwarves and elves. This led me -to become more productive, as Bruce says- to the first 3E question: should dwarf wizards be allowed in 3E or not? In my opinion, in Mystara not. [Ezio] By "Mystara" you meant "Know World", right? Surely there could be other sorts of characters, races, and monsters in other continents than Brun. [Ambreville] Yeah, yeah, you are perfectly right in here. I just point to the Rockhome branch (and derivates). And now, to move to the neightbour Alfheim... it's quite easy to agree that the only reason why all alfheim elves are mage/fighter is because of the limitation in OD&D rules. In fact, the Alfheim Gaz made an attempt to circumvent those rules with more specialized elves. So, I guess there should be no problems in allowing elves fighters, wizards, and thieves. And -for non Alfheim elves- clerics of any sort. But for the mass of Alfheim elves, my question is: are the Treekeepers the clerics of Ilsundal? Because if this is the answer, we have to convert what is basically a wizard into a cleric... *gulp*. Or a druid. - -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:24:57 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Okay, here is an outrageous idea that I will prove before the end of the week if nobody else on this list catches on -- that there are no "mermen" on or in the world of Mystara. For a definition of "Merman" I will reference the AD&D 2d edition Monstrous Manual (reinforced by "Sea of Fallen Stars"), and for my proof of that race's absence I will reference PC 3, "The Sea People", along with at least one of the PWAs. So -- does anybody have any idea of the form my argument will take? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:06:10 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Isle of Dread I would really like to see what you did about this settlement in the thanegioth archipelago. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:10:13 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - the dragon CD i just recently saw it on the shelves of my gameshop but its price (450 f = 70$) makes me think that at WotC they are consuming some mushrooms too. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:28:59 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) "I have always thought that Elves and N'djatwa would make the best "Red Shirt" security officers for skyships. They can fight and cast spells. Is N'djatwa pronounced like one,two,three in French? Too bad Etienne or Haldemar couldn't have visited the "Wizards Three". He He He. Ron Rogers" As for the pronunciation , "the N'djatwa" it would not be pronounced like "un , deux , trois". As for the Wizard three , i have always been a great fan of their meeting and i think it would be fun to have a few wizards meet once in a while to share their magical mystaran knowledge.This could be an elegant way to introduce new (or old ) spells and artifacts into mystara.(I am thinking about oyur post Carl).But the problem at the beginning would be to find some 3 well known arch-mage.Terrari could be one, the magist of Thyatis could be another (but maybe those two wouldn't get along) and another one (maybe Claransa or Haldemar). The names of the mages are just my first thoughts.If you have any other idea, please share them with us... - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:58:23 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - the dragon CD Quick FYI, I just ordered th Dragon Magazine CD for $28.89 plus shipping... from amazon.com. I don't know if this is helpful to any MMLers outside the US, but TSR's website still shows it as "Coming Soon", while Amazon claims to ship within 24 hours. Sooo, I'm hoping to get it by Friday. Hope this helps those facing huge prices... :-) Ed Paynter epaynter@iupui.edu - ----- Original Message ----- From: thibault sarlat To: Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 1999 5:10 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - the dragon CD > i just recently saw it on the shelves of my gameshop but its price (450 > f = 70$) makes me think that at WotC they are consuming some mushrooms > too. > > -- > Thibault Sarlat > ICQ 16622177. > Check out my sites : > The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi > Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi > And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi > Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma > page de garde en bas. > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:08:59 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Nicolas Hudson wrote: > I was wondering whether anyone on the list used the armor value rules > given in the Thyatian Player's Guide in Dawn of Emperors. I would appreciate > anyone who has andecdotes and suggestions on using these rules to comment; > I'm thinking about integrating them into my campaign, but would like to hear > from other people who have used it first. Thanks in advance. I've used it. It takes alot of work to convert the armor classes of all the monsters, but it makes alot more sense. Note that using these rules make quite a few changes in the power of various spells. But don't use the partial armor rules in Orcs of Thar. They are too tedious IMO. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:30:46 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Updated Guidelines for 3E Mystara Project "TALKING 3E FOR MYSTARA" THE GOAL: Since it is getting increasingly difficult to win over new players for Mystara, I suggest that a standard game system be used when discussing Mystara on the net or at conventions, as much as is possible. Obviously, I'm not asking anyone give up their preferred game. Whatever they play at home is of course fine. I'm only suggesting that a standard game LANGUAGE be used for the purpose of net discussions. Please understand that I neither advocate dropping OD&D or anyone's favored game system as their gaming platform at home, nor getting rid of "canon" Mystara as we all know it. The main idea is to offer a version of Mystara that is readily useable by the next big wave of new D&D players -- we can work later on convincing them to explore OD&D, once they have developed a genuine interest in Mystara. One way of accommodating them is that 3rd Edition D&D be used as the default game language on the net and possibly at conventions. This would alleviate the difficulty of them handling both an OOP game world and OOP game rules. This entails establishing a 3E-friendly version of Mystara that everyone feels comfortable with, and the creation of 3E-Mystara Guidelines that define differences with "canon" Mystara and conversion mechanics. Here are some initial guidelines on how this could work.. A. You favor OD&D Mystara A1. You don't have to change one iota of your setting. Play at home as you always do. The 3E Mystara version is separate from "canon" Mystara, probably with a minimum of differences. Some changes are to be expected to accommodate 3E rules as is practical without adversely affecting the look and feel of Mystara (see "Defining Mystara", appended at the end of this file). A2. Keep an eye on the key differences between 3E- and "canon" Mystara. You don't have to purchase 3E rules since hopefully 3E-Mystara Guidelines will be clear and complete enough to help you use its language just as if you were a 3E veteran! B. You favor 3E Mystara (and have been playing with another set of rules) B1. The World Setting: world features listed earlier and which presumably define the original Mystara do not change much (see "Defining Mystara", appended at the end of this file). B2. Immortals: their descriptions, history, personailties, motivations, and general feel remain unchanged. However, they should be adapted to match mechanics available in 3E (probably some tweaking on both ends, especially as regards to Immortal abilities and mechanics for mortals attaining Immortality). They should probably be treated as "deities" in the 3E version (although they have no ties to existing namesakes in other campaign worlds since Mystara belongs to a separate universe). B3. Monsters: convert those OD&D monsters not available with 3E, else use/modify the closest equivalents for the sake of simplicity. I'm still waiting for a sample 3E monster description from WotC; judging from what's included in the 3E PHB, I suspect monsters stats will include several new and useful ratings. A list of "illegal" monsters should be drafted especially for the Known World, not because I'm a power-crazed tyrant but simply because some monsters may adversely affect the setting itself (possibly like the drow and I'm sure some others -- fire away, folks!). Finally, open up the rest of the list to 3E DM's. B4. Characters: convert existing NPCs as closely as possible to available 3E equivalents so as not to alter the world setting. Possibly disallow 3E NPC characters that just can't be converted back to OD&D (although I suspect this one's too restrictive). Open-up all of the PC character options available in 3E. Alignments need to be looked at carefully. Evil in 3E often means Chaotic in OD&D, but Chaotic in OD&D does not always convert back to Evil in 3E (and so on...) Not necessarily ALL existing stats in "canon" Mystara need be converted for this project — just enough to be attractive to new 3E players (else, the conversion guidelines should be good enough to enable 3E players to easily achieve the same). This otherwise can be achieved over time. B5. General Game Mechanics: identify the truly "offending" 3E mechanics that are definitely "out" for Mystara (I'd think psionics would fit in this category — fill free to add more if there's a good reason). Else... open up the 3E game mechanics entirely since they should have no noticeable impact on the world setting. That's a no-brainer. C. You don't know anything but 3E C1. Get a copy of the 3E-Mystara Guidelines and try to follow the settings guidelines when posting messages. Hopefully, most of the info showing on the MML/MMB will remain familiar to you, if not plain 3E material already. D. Putting it together C1. Non-3E Mystarans should check out the 3E-Mystara Guidelines. Try to present your stuff in accord with these guidelines, provided you want to make that effort. Else, do as you do normally. Most of the effort consists in simply converting relevant OD&D stats to 3E and listing either the 3E stats or both. Fortunately, most of the posts are "stat-free" which should make life fairly easy for everyone. Cooperation would be appreciated. C2. Hopefully, a majority of people will deliberately support the concept of a standardized 3E platform to communicate on the net. Actually, something useful in 3E- Mystara Guidelines would be pointers for non-OD&D players on how to create NPC characters for Mystara that aren't too difficult to translate back to OD&D. DEFINING MYSTARA This general list summarizes major features defining Mystara's feel as a world setting. It includes comments made by several people and remains open, should other relevant features come to light. 1) Mystaran Cosmogony: Mystara is a separate universe independent from the Spelljammer/Planescape reality. Mystara has a magical sky shield, and anti-magic ring, polar openings, an entire hollow world, an invisible moon, etc. 2) The Known World's Structure: Distinctions by culture in smaller areas vs. distinctions mostly by race across larger areas. All areas of the Known World are clearly defined by their borders and very well detailed (geographic features, population figures, etc). 3) Real World Inspiration: Mystaran cultures are fantasized adaptations of RW historical models. On the other hand, very different cultures are often immediately adjacent regardless of RW racial or geographic models. 4) Cultural Dynamics: most Mystaran cultures and races show complex interactive links between each other and on-going master-plots driving their past and present histories. No culture is considered truly evil or good, as such perceptions are based upon local misconceptions and biases. 5) Politics/Economy: Well-developed economy and politics among people and nations remain a trademark of Mystara. Decisions made by the various rulers have a direct impact on everyday life. Seeking either to become rulers or get involved with the business of established heads of states is a recurrent feature for adventurers. 6) High Fantasy/High Magic: Mystara blends a high degree of magic into its system. Regions like Nithia, Alphatia, and Glantri have developed specific fields of magic (constructs, flying ships, Secret Crafts, etc) to a high degree. Nearly every region has its own brand of magic -- some cultural, some job-oriented, some racial, etc. 7) Multifaceted NPCS: Each realm harbors a multitude of well-developed heroes, villains, and leaders (and as many guilds and secret sects) cast interchangeably as allies OR enemies on the whim of the DM and the PC's own biases. Mystaran NPCs demonstrate motives, misconceptions, and alliances DESIGNED to entangle with one another, behind the scenes. 8) Role-Reversals: Where else would lycanthropes seek to PUBLICLY establish themselves as a political lobby, or subterranean elves be NICER than some of their surface-elves rivals, or merfolk cheerfully explain how humans evolved from THEM...? Mystara frequently allows what-ifs, thought-experiments, and in-jokes to be explored, where other settings would dismiss them as silly or frivolous. Many non-human races are also available as PCs in Mystara. 9) Immortality: Characters and monsters can become divine beings, which in turn affects "religion" in Mystara. The personality, motivations, and abilities of Immortals are highly detailed, as well as their interaction with mortals. Immortals are not related to gods of other game settings. 10) Game Restrictions: These are legacies of Mystara's original game system which limited in particular racial and character abilities as well as certain monster types. It is generally assumed that NPCs created for the Known World should conform to the original model. However, character and racial features available in 3E should remain largely available for PCs. Regions outside of the Known World are also fairly tolerant of 3E character types and monsters. Highly intelligent monsters are usually adapted specifically to one of Mystara's settings. Gun powder is not available, except for smokepowder in the Savage Coast region. Psionics are also alien to Mystara. Did I forget anything? (Sorry for the repetitions). Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:38 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (on web sites) > With Mystara, it's a big question mark. How many newbies could be attracted by a long dead world? [Marco] Unknown. It depends on the efforts of the present fan base in recruiting new players for their games or at conventions. A web site properly designed may help greatly in this respect (maintaining a calendar of convention events that include Mystara wouldn't be bad either; what about "gamers wanted" ads for Mystara clubs?) -- especially one based on WotC servers. > How much resources should we devote to this kind of project? Beats me. It might not have to be as big as you think, especially if we pace outselves a bit. The object is not necessarily to do everything right now -- just enough to prime the pump. > And also, if we approve an official Mystara site that produces canon net-products, it will have to keep in line with TSR's rules, and that means everything will be published in 3Ed format (which is what the Kargatane will do). I'm not sure this is necessarily true either. I'll have to get back with you about this since I'm presently talking with WotC about this very issue. Non-"canon" material may be entirely acceptable, probably provided it is clearly labelled that way. What I suggested in another post is that there be a page devoted specifically to 3E and to attracting new interest, and another section geared more toward OD&D Mystara. Over time, I would expect more and more people contributing 3E material to the first page, as they become more familiar with 3E rules and 3E Mystara Guidelines (see update in my previous post). Within that framework, if we can blend in non-"canon" with "canon" material while labelling submissions as such, then wouldn't that alleviate your concerns? > Also, this means the site must be of high-quality standard to attract the visitors and give decor to the line, and that's no easy feat man. Hey, we can always hope... and talk about it. At least, if it can be pulled off, that's more attention paid by WotC to Mystara. I would hope to chalk that up to the "plus-column". :o) > I for one would love to be part of the chosen ones who could keep Mystara alive as an official product of TSR on the net, but if this means I have to comply to restricting rules and fixed deadlines I'm sorry but I'd rather decline. I don't think this is what WotC had in mind. What restricting rules were you thinking of, may I ask? > I think it's good to have many unofficial Mystaran net-products, and with a single official Mystaran site, all other Mystaran net-stuff could probably soon plunge into oblivion, and that's a shame. ...not if the official site has links to these other sites. Why would that be a problem? You're not dealing with TSR of old, here. So far, my experience of WotC has unveiled a company that is far more flexible and open-minded than what I recall of TSR. More on this later... Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:44 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons What do plastic dragons breathe???? Saran Wrap? That could be nasty... :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:23:41 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC Web Site) > I'm not sure whether I'd like an Official Mystara again. I think it's doing just fine as a _fan_ created world. > Or maybe it's just that I'm working my free time away on fleshing out Bruce's Snartan Empire, and I don't want some "official" WoTC floozy cramming up "my" area with "canon" :) LOL! As a matter of fact, I don't think you'll be getting much else BUT fan-created material on an official Mystara site anyway. Bruce Heard Long live the Snartans! Long be their Noses! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:52:21 -0700 From: Richard Drozdik Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value >On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Nicolas Hudson wrote: > >> I was wondering whether anyone on the list used the armor value rules >> given in the Thyatian Player's Guide in Dawn of Emperors. I would appreciate >> anyone who has andecdotes and suggestions on using these rules to comment; >> I'm thinking about integrating them into my campaign, but would like to hear >> from other people who have used it first. Thanks in advance. > >I've used it. It takes alot of work to convert the armor classes of all >the monsters, but it makes alot more sense. Note that using these rules >make quite a few changes in the power of various spells. > I also use a set of Armour Value rules in my campaign, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they had their roots in the Dawn of Emperors set (originally introduced by my old DM with some additional tweaks as I adopted them myself). I've never found it to be that much work to convert from Ac-only stats to Ac-Av stats, but then again I've got so many special house rules running in my campaign that I have to covert all monster stats anyways when running a module, one more little thing doesn't really effect me much. Richard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 08:56:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Jenn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) - --- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > but on top of > that the team in charge was denied at the last > minute the plan that they had > come up with. All right, Bruce, now you've piqued my curiosity ;-) ... So what were the boxed set conversions _supposed_ to entail?? Jenn ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:11:34 EDT From: FreddiePal@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: [MYSTARA] - Metallic Dragons In a message dated 10/27/99 11:26:28 AM, you wrote: <> Silly String? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:01:42 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (on web sites) This website idea is a good one. I would love to help supporting it. Is your plan to have WotC host the site? It would be cool if they did, and if they arent interested it isnt really a big problem to set it up elsewhere. The important thing is that it has lots of cool information and that it still doesnt get too messy and chaotic. Links to other Mystara sites is a good idea. Other companies, like Steve Jackson Games have links to fan pages, so I dont see why WotC would mind that. Good luck, and keep us updated! Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:11:07 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 1999-10-26 08:37:48 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no > writes: > > I've never seen a fighter as anything but a character who fights alot. And > > I haven't thought that any military training would be required to assume > > this class. This is also why I dont see the need for the introduction of a > > barbarian class. > > Anyway, I still think the fighter should be an available class, but it > > depends on how it is presented in the rulebook... > > I would agree with that point -- it all depends on how barbarians are depicted > in the 3E rulebook. I am currently assuming that barbarians are a bit tougher > than fighters (rolling d12 rather than d10 for hit points) and have more > stealth > and survival skills as opposed to raw power with weapons and armor. If these > assumptions are true, then goblinoids would probably work better as barbari- > ans than as fighters. Of course, I am perfectly willing to do an abrupt > "about > face" if the information about he 3e barbarian class is very different from > what > I am expecting. I agree. This all sounds reasonable. As for the issue of whether such a class is even necessary -- there is no > point in debating that one, WotC has pretty much said that they will include > that class in 3E. The only remaining question for us is what we will do with > it, if anything. Yeah. I probably shouldnt have brought that up. Just my personal annoyance at all these new classes. If I were to use 3E id probably use only the old classes and use kits ala AD&D2. Kits are out of the 3E, right? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #463 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 464 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value [MYSTARA] - re: the dragon CD Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) [MYSTARA] - Not so Metallic Dragons [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) [MYSTARA] - D&D movie [MYSTARA] - D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - Updated Guidelines for 3E Mystara Project [MYSTARA] - gaz4-7-11 Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 10:07:59 -0500 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? > Okay, here is an outrageous idea that I will prove before the end of > the week > if nobody else on this list catches on -- that there are no "mermen" > on or in > the world of Mystara. For a definition of "Merman" I will reference > the AD&D > 2d edition Monstrous Manual (reinforced by "Sea of Fallen Stars"), > and for > my proof of that race's absence I will reference PC 3, "The Sea > People", > along with at least one of the PWAs. Uh, p. 24 of PC3 has the rules for merrow, the OD&D equivalent of AD&D mermen. THere are differences (two tails instead of one, and the society is different than described in the Monster Manual), but they are basically the same. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:47:49 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value At Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:11:53 GMT, "Nicolas Hudson" wrote: > I was wondering whether anyone on the list used the armor value rules >given in the Thyatian Player's Guide in Dawn of Emperors. I would appreciate >anyone who has andecdotes and suggestions on using these rules to comment; I DO use them. The rules tell you to use AV and avoid reducing AC when u wear an armor, but IMC armors both grant AV and lower AC, so fighters are happier :). I know that it would be more realistic the way DotE says, but since this is a rule I discussed with my players and they all agreed on combining both rules, we finally did it this way. >From my experience AV is vital if you want to throw nasty opponents to your PCs at low levels. In fact, the owlbear could kill a single person with his blows in 1 round, but if the victim wears a chain mail (AV4), then he can resist the owlbear much better! However, do subtract damage points ONLY when the blow lands on an area covered by armor. To determine where the blows land, I use the Critical Rules taken directly from Skills & Options (roll d10): 1-2 left leg 3-4 right leg 5 abdomen 6-7 torso 8 left arm 9 right arm 10 head Keep in mind that: leather armor protects only torso + abdomen scale armor protects torso, abdomen and head chain mail protects torso, abdomen, head and legs banded, plate and field armors protect everything. One final thing: if u use AV, you'll have to determine how much damage can the armors take before they fall to pieces. If you're interested in Damage Points rules, I can provide u with those. To keep it simple, use these stats: Armor Damage Points Taken Leather 80 Scale 120 Chainmail 160 Banded 200 Platemail 240 Field 280 Whenever the DP of the armor reach the lower level, reduce AC and AV accordingly. (ex: if a plate mail Damage Points are reduced to 197, then said plate mail now gives an AC of 4 instead of 3 and an AV of 5 instead of 6 because it's much more damaged and offers less protection). Hope this helps. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:07:28 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: the dragon CD From: thibault sarlat >i just recently saw it on the shelves of my gameshop but its price (450 f = 70$) makes me think that at WotC they are consuming some mushrooms too. I bought it from EB yesterday for 45$. of course shiping to Israel is 35$ so you probably can make a better deal than I made... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:37:58 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Request for Information - Armor Value On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, DM wrote: > However, do subtract damage points ONLY when the blow lands on an area > covered by armor. To determine where the blows land, I use the Critical > Rules taken directly from Skills & Options (roll d10): Do you really think that is worth it? >From my experience, this takes too much time to be worth using the table. I just use an average AV for the entire body. This speeds up combat alot. > Keep in mind that: > leather armor protects only torso + abdomen > scale armor protects torso, abdomen and head > chain mail protects torso, abdomen, head and legs > banded, plate and field armors protect everything. > > One final thing: if u use AV, you'll have to determine how much damage can > the armors take before they fall to pieces. If you're interested in Damage > Points rules, I can provide u with those. To keep it simple, use these stats: This is another thing I'd skip. This isn't too bothersome for the game master, but its just a pain in the butt for the players. Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:36 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) >> but on top of that the team in charge was denied at the last >> minute the plan that they had come up with. >All right, Bruce, now you've piqued my curiosity ;-) >... So what were the boxed set conversions _supposed_ >to entail?? [Jenn] What happened is that the Mystara "boxed set" had been nearly completed on a format similar to the Forgotten Realms campaign set -- basically a box about the entire Known World, kind of like an uber-Almanac w/chrome -- when the order came down to follow the Gazetteer series instead. This meant a box for Karameikos, a box for Glantri... etc until the pile collapses and crushes someone horribly. The AD&D Mystara team had to reshuffle everything they had, PLUS, add the darn audio CDs and the manufacturing costs of the boxes themselves which gobbled away a significant part of their production budgets. Meanwhile, overall sales at TSR were just beginning their death dive. They weren't happy campers... Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:39 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Not so Metallic Dragons <> > Silly String? LOL! What if the aluminum foil dragon breathed the earlier-mentioned microwave cone of death? Knights in metal armor could prove to be a problem (can you say "SPARK"?) . It could also arc and fuse together all the parts of the knight's armor! :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:41 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) > This website idea is a good one. I would love to help supporting it. Is your plan to have WotC host the site? [Havard] Actually, no. It's theirs. I just kicked open the ant-hill ahead of time. They are very much interested in an official Mystara web site under their wing. More later on this... > The important thing is that it has lots of cool information and that it still doesnt get too messy and chaotic. I don't think it will be, tho the beginning presents some difficulties. WotC as I suspected wants the main page of this site to be written for 3E (eventually) and that it MUST be 100% "canon" as regards to material already in print. In the mean time, they want it in 2nd Edition. I got around this by suggesting a non-game specific Mystara in the interim, until we're ready with 3E. Other than this, they seemed pretty flexible. The good news is that a second page (or section/whatever) is entirely devoted to the fans, including all OD&D and/or non-"canon" submissions, as well as links to informal Mystara fan sites and possibly even Mystara player info. The real good news is that the official site has access to original art used with Mystara (provided it is still available). More later on this... So... back to 3E. It seems more than ever, the new game system has to be looked at very seriously! :o) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) - --- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > real good news is that > the official site has access to original art used > with Mystara (provided it > is still available). More later on this... > Oh, please tell me this includes the awesome work of Stephen Fabian from the GAZ's!!! IMHO, his artwork is an inseparable part of Mystara. - -Damon ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:31:05 -0500 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:47:36 EDT Ambreville@aol.com writes: > >> but on top of that the team in charge was denied at the last > >> minute the plan that they had come up with. > > >All right, Bruce, now you've piqued my curiosity ;-) > >... So what were the boxed set conversions _supposed_ > >to entail?? [Jenn] > > What happened is that the Mystara "boxed set" had been nearly > completed on a > format similar to the Forgotten Realms campaign set -- basically a > box about > the entire Known World, kind of like an uber-Almanac w/chrome -- > when the > order came down to follow the Gazetteer series instead. Now that is dissapointing. Somehow I have the spooky suspicion that AD&D Mystara might have been far more sucessful had the original plan been followed... What really makes me mad about AD&D MYstara is the "might have beens". Mark of Amber is a prime example of how good it could have been... Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:39:11 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) > What happened is that the Mystara "boxed set" had been nearly completed on a > format similar to the Forgotten Realms campaign set -- basically a box about > the entire Known World, kind of like an uber-Almanac w/chrome -- when the > order came down to follow the Gazetteer series instead. This meant a box for > Karameikos, a box for Glantri... etc until the pile collapses and crushes > someone horribly. The AD&D Mystara team had to reshuffle everything they had, > PLUS, add the darn audio CDs and the manufacturing costs of the boxes > themselves which gobbled away a significant part of their production budgets. > Meanwhile, overall sales at TSR were just beginning their death dive. They > weren't happy campers... What the heck! I would have shelled out lots of money to get that!! It just goes to show how inane TSR had become. You don't know how happy I was to hear that they got bought out. They had took all the best elements of every game they ever made, and tossed them in favor of stupid CD's and lame ideas. Ethan - Hopeful future contributor to the WoTC Site *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:33:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie Hi Pals! Thanx to Brad McMillan's URL I was able to do an extensive research on the topic D&D movie, and these are the interesting parts I thought useful to share with you: "Dave Arneson, the Co-creator of the Dungeons and Dragons game gave the lecture on the history of role playing at GenCon this august. He also just recently visited the set of the movie. His impression was that the movie was going to be great. "The movie is hoped to be released next August, to go along with the release of the 3rd edition of the Dungeons and Dragons Game. The movie may end up not coming out until halloween, however, depending on post production time. "They are due to finish shooting sometime this week. [August 1999] "A trailer may be available for the SHOWEST convention early next year. "They confirmed that Tom Baker does have a cameo role in the film. As does Dave Arneson, the co-creator of the Dungeons and Dragons game. The actor who played the butler from the Rocky Horror Picture show has a small part. They also mentioned that there would be other cameos that they couldn't mention yet. "A movie website is supposed to be online sometime in September. They hope to update it with character bios, trailers, and other goodies throughout the next year. "The budget is said to be between 30-35 million dollars, the exact figure is not known at the moment, pending post production costs. "Bruce Payne plays Damodar, the bald headed fighting bad guy who works with Profion. "Justin Whalen plays Ridley, the thief hero of the story. "Marlon Wayans plays Snails, another thief and Ridley's pal. He is the comic relief in the movie. They said that Whalen and Wayans have tremedous on screen chemistry. It was compared to Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. "Zoe McClellon plays the mage of the group and is the love interest of Ridley. "Jeremy Irons plays Profion, the bad guy wizard in the film. "Damodar is Profion's sidekick in crime. Damodar is played by Bruce Payne (who was the bad guy in Passenger 57) although we're told "he has a totally different look... "Lee Arenberg plays Elwood, a tough dwarf fighter. "Thora Birch plays the 17 year old Empress. They said that she had some great scenes with Jeremy Irons. "Kristen Wilson plays Norda, a half-elf ranger, who was described as the best tracker/ranger in the land. "There will be between 12-20 spells in the movie, and they will be based on spells from the game. "There will be between 12-20 different types of monsters, all from the role playing game. Some will be costumed actors, while others will be digitally created. "An effort has been made to remain true to the source material. The characters are of classes that fans of the game will recognize. Minor changes will be noted by gaming experts, such as in this world, Red dragons are more powerful than Gold dragons. "The film is being made with the hopes of sequels to come. There will be small clues and info given in this movie that might become more important should sequels occur. "The movie will be PG-13. Different camera angles are being shot in the battle scenes to enable the director (who is an avid D&D player), to use the most violent combat possible for a PG-13 rating. "The tone of the movie was described as serious, but with touches of humor in appropriate places. The tone of the original Star Wars was used for comparison. "They are already in the process of planning for role playing supplements based on the movie, as well as other things such as computer games, etc. "They said that the film will look as good as a film with twice the budget. This is because they hired the best people in the industry for just a few of the key positions. That way the quality would remain high, while the budget wouldn't. "They said that the scenery in the film is very beautiful. Some of the Castles, Monasteries, Churches, and other locations in the film have never been seen on film before. "They said that James Cameron was at one point interested in doing the movie, but do to studio problems he couldn't do it. "They also talked about how the director, Corey Solomon, has been trying to make this movie for 9 years. He has built his career around it, and is working very hard on it. He has had the chance to sell off the rights to low budget film studios who put out cheap films, but he has refused the money, wanting to make sure it gets done right. "The presentation left me feeling very positive about the movie. There seems to be an absolute dedication to make sure that the movie is done correctly." If you're interested in the plot, then let me know... DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 01:35:14 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie Oh, one last thing about the movie is the setting: it's nothing from TSR campaign worlds, but a new one invented for the movie alone. There was rumors about a possible Dragonlance movie as well, but it has either been postponed or discarded... DM DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:05:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Brad McMillan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Updated Guidelines for 3E Mystara Project >THE GOAL: Since it is getting increasingly difficult to win over new players >for Mystara, I suggest that a standard game system be used when discussing >Mystara on the net or at conventions, as much as is possible. Obviously, I'm >not asking anyone give up their preferred game. Whatever they play at home is >of course fine. I'm only suggesting that a standard game LANGUAGE be used for >the purpose of net discussions. Please understand that I neither advocate >dropping OD&D or anyone's favored game system as their gaming platform at >home, nor getting rid of "canon" Mystara as we all know it. I'm not going to summon up any Dracology breath weapon on this subject again, but I do want to mention that I would like to continue discussing Mystara in an OD&D (and for others, AD&D) light on this List. I believe Leroy made it clear this would be the case, that all Mystara discussion on the List was not going to be exclusive to any one game mechanic. The alternative is to have separate Lists, one for OD&D/AD&D and one for 3ED&D. I hope that won't become the case. With that said, I would be interested in seeing how Mystara fairs in a 3ED&D setting, on this List. Moreover, the plan withwhich Bruce has mentioned looks VERY good (hey, the guy was a Product Manager, can't ya tell? ;) His support is a Good Thing(tm)! Also, everyone else contributions to the subject are excellent as well. Who am I to judge? Just another gamer like the rest of you. :) Hope that's enough.(?) ;) Brad McMillan - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 17:17:54 -0700 From: Eleanor Williams Subject: [MYSTARA] - gaz4-7-11 Titan Games has these, if you don't Mystara Campaign Gaz4: The Kingdom of Ierendi (9215) [$14, VF] Gaz7: The Northern Reaches (9230) [$17.5, NM] Gaz11: The Republic of Darokin (9250) [$17.5, NM] titan-games.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:18:10 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? The fact that mermen and mermaids call themselves Merrow in Mystara? Which in AD&D are aquatic ogres? (Ha! I was just reading PC3 for ideas for my storyline, so I was up on this one.) IronWolf Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Okay, here is an outrageous idea that I will prove before the end of the week > if nobody else on this list catches on -- that there are no "mermen" on or in > the world of Mystara.  For a definition of "Merman" I will reference the AD&D > 2d edition Monstrous Manual (reinforced by "Sea of Fallen Stars"), and for > my proof of that race's absence I will reference PC 3, "The Sea People", > along with at least one of the PWAs. > > So -- does anybody have any idea of the form my argument will take? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:29:54 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > What happened is that the Mystara "boxed set" had been nearly completed on a > format similar to the Forgotten Realms campaign set -- basically a box about > the entire Known World, kind of like an uber-Almanac w/chrome -- when the > order came down to follow the Gazetteer series instead. This meant a box for > Karameikos, a box for Glantri... etc until the pile collapses and crushes > someone horribly. The AD&D Mystara team had to reshuffle everything they had, > PLUS, add the darn audio CDs and the manufacturing costs of the boxes > themselves which gobbled away a significant part of their production budgets. > Meanwhile, overall sales at TSR were just beginning their death dive. They > weren't happy campers... Sheesh, the first plan definitely was the better one. The only reason I purchased the box sets myself was because at the time I didn't have copies of GAZ1 and GAZ3, so I needed the material. I obtained the Gazateers later anyway, disgusted because they had the same material at a much more affordable price. (I think I still paid less money for the Gazateers, even though they're even more valuable.) The box sets were just the same material with a lot of unnecessary color artwork and information, almost a decadent amount, really. And yeah, the CD's were lame too. The problem is that good voice talent is expensive, so most get fair-to-middling, which always shows. (Blizzard Software is one of the few game companies I've seen that hires high-quality, and it shows. Compare the voice talent in Starcraft to Baldur's Gate, and you'll see what I mean.) I don't hold high hopes for Mystara to make a comeback myself, but a final Archive Encyclopedia product on CD perhaps, a compilation of all modules and materials ever produced, would be something I'd want. IronWolf P.S. Yeah, I'll have to go with the naysayers on GAZ3, Bruce. The material was okay, but the organization is what really was frustrating, I couldn't find seperate sections for players and DM's, and there was no clear-cut creation system for Glantri PC's. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:27:12 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? In a message dated 1999-10-27 12:59:43 Eastern Daylight Time, anowack@juno.com writes: > Uh, p. 24 of PC3 has the rules for merrow, the OD&D equivalent of AD&D > mermen. THere are differences (two tails instead of one, and the society > is different than described in the Monster Manual), but they are > basically the same. Actually you highlighted the critical difference -- "two tails instead of one". That is a very significant difference to the physical form -- among other things, for example, it controls who and what they can mate with. A single-tailed merman cannot mate with humans and demi-humans, while a triton with fish tails for legs can. According to available Mystara material, the Alphatian king of Aquas did indeed have a daughter by a mermaid. So if we go by physical form rather than game stats, then it is quite clear that the Mystaran "merman" is actually a mostly non-magical subspecies of triton. Ergo, Mystara has two types of triton and no mermen of the single fish tailed variety. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 04:10:14 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? In a message dated 1999-10-27 21:19:57 Eastern Daylight Time, ironwolf@ewa.net writes: > The fact that mermen and mermaids call themselves Merrow in Mystara? Which in > AD&D are aquatic ogres? (Ha! I was just reading PC3 for ideas for my > storyline, so I was up on this one.) Not quite -- I was going by form rather than name, although the difference in name helps a bit. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:32:54 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s > And yeah, the CD's were lame too. The problem is that good voice > talent is expensive, so most get fair-to-middling, which always > shows. Now that you said it, the CD:s SUCK. Mark of Amber is nearly mediocre, but Kingdom of Magic CD is pure HORROR. The 'spells' sound like the good'ol' C64, the voices are horrible. The "Player" Characters speak and refer to each other as "Thief", "Wizard" and "Fighter". And they sound like coming straight out of Enid Blyton's books. I have had a vision. When I am REALLY bored some day, I will gather a group of people I don't exactly like, and a lot of booze, and go into some creepy dungeon playing out the Test of Darkness... WITH the audio CD. The Mark of Amber qualifies as a good try. The actors are mostly okay, and the musics are not heard too much. The adventure with lots of new charactes gets easier to master, as every NPC has a strong personality. But still, if the GM uses a CD, the adventure feels both plastic and rail-roaded. If the GM plays CD whatever I do, I can't feel I am doing something -- it is like listening to a show. > frustrating, I couldn't find seperate sections for players and DM's, > and there was no clear-cut creation system for Glantri PC's. There was no section for players even in the Gaz3. First thing I did was to write approx. 10 or 15 pages of text for the players. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #464 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 465 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Future of The List and the Chageover to WotC's Servers Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:07:48 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie >They confirmed that Tom Baker does have a cameo role in the film. As does Dave Arneson, the co-creator of the Dungeons and Dragons game. The actor who played the butler from the Rocky Horror Picture show has a small part. They also mentioned that there would be other cameos that they couldn't mention yet. > That would be Richard O'Brian, the best actor and song writer, who ever lived! Some of you Europian's might know him as the host of the game show "the Crystal Maze". (Im kind off a Rockyphile...) >"The movie will be PG-13. Different camera angles are being shot in the battle scenes to enable the director (who is an avid D&D player), to use >the most violent combat possible for a PG-13 rating. Pardon my ignorence, but does that mean it is intended for ages 13 and up? If so this is the best way to make it popular among kids, at least here in Israel. I rememner when I was a teenager and movies were age restricted, that was good enough of a reason to go and see that movie, aspcialy if I was 2-3 years younger than alowed. Such a movie will be regarded automaticaly by young teenagers as "cool", and as a result I predict a major influx of new young players. (this remark is not intended to offend any young member of the mailing list, it is just how things go...) >"The tone of the movie was described as serious, but with touches of humor in appropriate places. The tone of the original Star Wars was used for >comparison. Oh good. I was afraid it was going to be silly. I understand this is an american film right? (not British?) >"They are already in the process of planning for role playing supplements based on the movie, as well as other things such as computer games, etc. oh, so it IS an american movie... >If you're interested in the plot, then let me know... I know I am. Send it if you can please. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? When does it come out? Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:22:16 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? I seem to remember Merrow could be either two tailed or one tailed. Although it sais otherwise in their descreptiones, look at the picture in page 8 of the PC3. I figured the the lower bunch are merrow whie the upper 3 are tritons. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:24:51 GMT From: "Clenarius 36th level wizard" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s I remember the joy i felt when i first heard about those CD adventures modules.I ran to my gamestore and bought the mark of amber on the spot.I ahad always liked the glantri setting and i wanted to know what happened to Etienne.My feelings about the product were and still are confused.The scenario is not that bad but the CD force the players into doing certain actions , thus leading to a linear adventure.But i have always thought that the "plus" RPG had over books where you are the hero is that the adventures possibilities are unlimited. It was fun to hear (english spoken)actors trying to sound French in an effort to render the Averoigne accent.Since then i decided not to buy the other cd adventures and only the boxed setting (glantri, karameikos, and the red steel sequence). thib (from his other adress). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:36:32 GMT From: "Clenarius 36th level wizard" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie yes there is a Lord of the rings movie in the making.In fact it would be a trilogy, each episod having a budget about 100 million $ , it will be directed by Peter Jackson and the links on the net are numerous , just use a search engine.But there are not a lot of clues regarding the cast, just rumours. I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), but i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir ( what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger part than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a crime against the original story...)), and there would be no Tom bombadil in the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the galgal...). Anyway , as a meticullously die-hard person regarding the subject, i would stop talking about it because it only makes me nervous and angry. thib >From: àéìï ùçí >Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com >To: "Mystara Mailing List (E-mail)" >Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 +0200 > >Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? >When does it come out? > >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) >"and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:29:50 -0400 From: Bruce Pierpont Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Check out http://www.imdb.com if you want more info. Just search on "Lord of the Rings". So far no mention of Sean Connery has been made (he's not Gandalf or Saruman). Bruce Willis is not playing Boromir, but John Ryhs-Davies is playing Gimli and Liv Tyler is Arwen. They have most of the cast list up. Clenarius 36th level wizard wrote: > > yes there is a Lord of the rings movie in the making.In fact it would be a > trilogy, each episod having a budget about 100 million $ , it will be > directed by Peter Jackson and the links on the net are numerous , just use a > search engine.But there are not a lot of clues regarding the cast, just > rumours. > I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), but > i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir ( > what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger part > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a > crime against the original story...)), and there would be no Tom bombadil in > the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the > galgal...). > Anyway , as a meticullously die-hard person regarding the subject, i would > stop talking about it because it only makes me nervous and angry. > > thib > > >From: àéìï ùçí > >Reply-To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com > >To: "Mystara Mailing List (E-mail)" > >Subject: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie > >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 +0200 > > > >Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? > >When does it come out? > > > >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) > >"and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies > > > > > >*************************************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:51:32 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The Future of The List and the Chageover to WotC's Servers Mystarans and Spelljammers, The issue of our change over to WotC's servers has come up lately, plus some people have found the new servers, which are mostly functional. I have had some people ask me some questions, so I wanted to address a few things in one post. The current plan is for the MPGN lists to close down, and all list activity will take place on the new servers some time in the future. When this will happen is still up in the air, as I am currently working to fix a few problems. When the time comes I will make an announcement explaining it all. Until that time please continue to use these lists (Mystara and Spelljammer, as I am the admin for both). Now, the MPGN lists are supposed to be closed down at some point, and it is theoretically possible that they may close before I can resolve the issues (my work requires on the work of others, so there isn't much I can do to speed things up). If this happens I will put something up on my web page, as soon as I find out. Everyone should head over there and bookmark it for the time being. If it seems to you that the list might not be up, check it out. If it says nothing, please wait at least 24 hours before e-mailing me and asking. To insure things are fine you may see the occasional test message from me to insure thigns are still rosey. Thanks. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:48:26 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > > This website idea is a good one. I would love to help supporting it. Is > your plan to have WotC host the site? [Havard] > > Actually, no. It's theirs. I just kicked open the ant-hill ahead of time. > They are very much interested in an official Mystara web site under their > wing. More later on this... Very interesting! Who would maintain this website? Would you take it upon yourself to do this job? Or would WotC hire a person to do it? Or would it be possible for someone on this list to do this work? > > The important thing is that it has lots of cool information and that it > still doesnt get too messy and chaotic. > > I don't think it will be, tho the beginning presents some difficulties. WotC > as I suspected wants the main page of this site to be written for 3E > (eventually) and that it MUST be 100% "canon" as regards to material already > in print. In the mean time, they want it in 2nd Edition. I got around this by > suggesting a non-game specific Mystara in the interim, until we're ready with > 3E. Other than this, they seemed pretty flexible. The good news is that a > second page (or section/whatever) is entirely devoted to the fans, including > all OD&D and/or non-"canon" submissions, as well as links to informal Mystara > fan sites and possibly even Mystara player info. The real good news is that > the official site has access to original art used with Mystara (provided it > is still available). More later on this... This sounds very good! Original Mystara art! yum-yum! Do you think it would be possible for us of this list to write material for the official canon page aswell? Or is the plan to scan in information from various already published products and put that on the site? This is also a good oportunity to bring the Mystara and the SAVAGE COAST/Red Steel settings together. I dont see any reason why we should keep these presented separately as all true Mystarans know that they are the same. Plus, that the already scanned Savage Coast stuff is really good and might attract new people to Mystara. Links are a good thing. Also, do you think they it would be possible to add this site to the Mystara webring? > So... back to 3E. It seems more than ever, the new game system has to be > looked at very seriously! :o) Yes indeed. I'm looking forward to seeing those Mystara 3E guidelines. Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:54:31 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? Has anyone seen the CD yet? Is the VotPA stuff included? Any other interesting D&D/Mystara/Known World articles? Overall, is the CD worth it? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:36:04 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) > Oh, please tell me this includes the awesome work of Stephen Fabian from the GAZ's!!! IMHO, his artwork is an inseparable part of Mystara. [Damon] It all depends how much of Steven's orginal art pieces are still available in Seattle. Scanning out of a book isn't all that great otherwise. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:36:02 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... One more bit of info. The conversion book prepared by WotC will only have guidelines to convert OD&D PC stats and spells to 3E. Nothing related to Mystara otherwise. WotC is presently tied up with their present strategy of not supporting OOP worlds directly within printed releases, however the amount of goodwill I encountered as I made all these inquiries has been encouraging. For example, I may be able to get a few people involved on a standard non-disclosure agreement to go over out these conversion guidelines and see if we can contribute anything else to it as well. I'll have more about this next week. What I'm suggesting is that we start off with these conversion guidelines at least to cover our bases with OD&D rules, and then that we elaborate with all the Mystara-specific data on our own. This would be the basis for establishing a 3E language on the net. This document becomes key to preparing the 3E section on the official Mystara web site as well. If we can complete the document's first part early enough we then stand a good chance at launching the official 3E page before the release of the new PHB. Actually, another thing that would be useful is to officially schedule 3E Mystara events at GenCon, specifically to attract new players right from the beginning. Advertising these events on the official Mystara site wouldn't be bad thing either. Wouldn't it be nice if we used GenCon as an opportunity to hand out to new players a well-designed pamphlet including our 3E-Mystara guidelines and genuine "ads" for the MML/MMB, the official Mystara web site and other cool fan sites? As a matter of fact, it occurred to me that a very short "summary" of what Mystara is could help in the recruitment process. I might have something in my files for this (it's old and will need updating). This pamphlet could eventually be completed in PDF format so anyone can print it or view it on the net... Sorry for rambling on. :o) I've also shamelessly plugged with the WotC folks our Immortal rules as a possible starting point or a source of inspiration for the development of 3E rules on gods. In addition to this or as an alternate approach, I've also suggested consideration be given within this product to converting/adapting in some way OD&D Immortals. This one's a "toughie" considering the prevalent policy on OOP properties so I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I pointed out that some people may be interested in helping out with this (again -- this will requires the ubiquitous non-disclosure agreement). Keep your fingers crossed. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:36:07 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) What the heck! I would have shelled out lots of money to get that!! [Ethan] Yeah... I'm not too sure that it would have fared all that well either. What I saw of the original design draft looked more like a big Joshuan/touchy-feely clone that just didn't do it for me. I understand why it was written that way, so I'm not faulting the design team. It's just that it departed so drastically from the kind of hard core gamer info that I had become used to in Gazetteers and Almanacs that I didn't feel comfortable with it at all. There was a high proportion of white space left for art and big margins, large font/sophisticated graphic layout, and basically what I considered fluff text. I'm not sure that the entire manuscript for the box would have contained anywhere near as much info as the first Almanacs did -- and for what price! Yes, the box otherwise was more valuable in this format than an actual redo of the existing Gazetteers, but I suspect there still would have been a lot of unhappy faces among established fans. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:50:45 -0400 From: Matthew.Wang@wdr.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions Bruce, The pamphlets sound like a great idea! I have access to free color copies and I would be willing to donate that production ability to any effort to advertise the Mystara world. Matt Wang ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Author: Ambreville (Ambreville@aol.com) at unix,mime Date: 10/28/99 11:36 AM One more bit of info. The conversion book prepared by WotC will only have guidelines to convert OD&D PC stats and spells to 3E. Nothing related to Mystara otherwise. WotC is presently tied up with their present strategy of not supporting OOP worlds directly within printed releases, however the amount of goodwill I encountered as I made all these inquiries has been encouraging. For example, I may be able to get a few people involved on a standard non-disclosure agreement to go over out these conversion guidelines and see if we can contribute anything else to it as well. I'll have more about this next week. What I'm suggesting is that we start off with these conversion guidelines at least to cover our bases with OD&D rules, and then that we elaborate with all the Mystara-specific data on our own. This would be the basis for establishing a 3E language on the net. This document becomes key to preparing the 3E section on the official Mystara web site as well. If we can complete the document's first part early enough we then stand a good chance at launching the official 3E page before the release of the new PHB. Actually, another thing that would be useful is to officially schedule 3E Mystara events at GenCon, specifically to attract new players right from the beginning. Advertising these events on the official Mystara site wouldn't be bad thing either. Wouldn't it be nice if we used GenCon as an opportunity to hand out to new players a well-designed pamphlet including our 3E-Mystara guidelines and genuine "ads" for the MML/MMB, the official Mystara web site and other cool fan sites? As a matter of fact, it occurred to me that a very short "summary" of what Mystara is could help in the recruitment process. I might have something in my files for this (it's old and will need updating). This pamphlet could eventually be completed in PDF format so anyone can print it or view it on the net... Sorry for rambling on. :o) I've also shamelessly plugged with the WotC folks our Immortal rules as a possible starting point or a source of inspiration for the development of 3E rules on gods. In addition to this or as an alternate approach, I've also suggested consideration be given within this product to converting/adapting in some way OD&D Immortals. This one's a "toughie" considering the prevalent policy on OOP properties so I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I pointed out that some people may be interested in helping out with this (again -- this will requires the ubiquitous non-disclosure agreement). Keep your fingers crossed. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:20:00 +0200 From: Jamuga Khan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Orient > > Perhaps I should send some of my better healers to poor Carl. > > It seems that their work wasn't sufficient the last time... > > How about I just post my fingers to you direct? Saves on air fare...;-)) > > Carl Q. Sigh! I WISH the problem would be solved once and for all! Oops! Carl, where have you gone? Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:18:37 -0500 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s > The Mark of Amber qualifies as a good try. The actors are mostly > okay, > and the musics are not heard too much. The adventure with lots of > new > charactes gets easier to master, as every NPC has a strong > personality. > But still, if the GM uses a CD, the adventure feels both plastic and > rail-roaded. If the GM plays CD whatever I do, I can't feel I am > doing > something -- it is like listening to a show. I think Mark of Amber was an excellent example of how the CD concept should have worked. It just consists of some backround music and NPC dialog. (And IMO, if I run it, it will be a pleasure not to have to imitate French accents perpetually). Abouit railroading, you might as well say, "If the GM reads the boxed text whatever I do, I can't feel I am doing something." All that only applies for a good CD, however. A bad CD does contribute to railroading, particuarly when it has the PCs talking on its tracks Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:55:00 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (of bad examples) Bruce Wrote: > What I saw of the original design draft looked more like a big > Joshuan/touchy-feely clone that just didn't do it for me. I understand why it > was written that way, so I'm not faulting the design team. It's just that it > departed so drastically from the kind of hard core gamer info that I had > become used to in Gazetteers and Almanacs that I didn't feel comfortable with > it at all. *sigh* I guess it wouldn't have been as cool as it could have. I miss the days of really high class hard core game info. I hope that the D&D3 materials are not so much fluff and pictures, but text, numbers, charts and the occasional liner art. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:29:35 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Thibault: > My feelings about the product were and still are confused.The > scenario is not that bad but the CD force the players into doing > certain actions , thus leading to a linear adventure. As I am a great fan of Sierra's "Colonel's BeQuest", Mark of Amber is IMHO the best RPG module I have ever come across. At least among the best, at least better than any other D&D / AD&D -modle that I have read. But still, the using the CD is probably an easy way of ruining the adventure. However, the CD can be used as a GM resource, which he can use himself to flesh out the characters to himself! > It was fun to hear (english spoken)actors trying to sound French :-) Aaron: > I think Mark of Amber was an excellent example of how the CD concept > should have worked. It just consists of some backround music and NPC > dialog. Background music would be grat for an adventure. I have constructed MiniDisc -soundtracks for my Mage -- the Ascension game. That works very well, I always have something appropriate music for every scene. Let it be a night club, a laboratory or a sanctum -- it is there. But MoA includes (AFAIK) two plain music tracks, of which at least one sounds really cheap. > Abouit railroading, you might as well say, "If the GM reads the boxed > text whatever I do, I can't feel I am doing something." You got it exactly RIGHT! But, if GM uses a module book, he can pretend he is reading a box or pretend he is *not* reading a box -- besides, the boxes are usually (hopefully) only descriptions of places or people, and only rarely (luckily) NPC speeches. > "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." Never let the reality get in the way of a good story... - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:06:17 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie > >Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? >When does it come out? > >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) >"and all the while as vampires feed- I bleed..." /the Pixies Last I heard it is supposed to come out around Dec. 2000. AFAIK they are still shooting/just finished shooting in New Zealand, and it's supposedly another big budget flick. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 15:10:54 EDT From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie << Last I heard it is supposed to come out around Dec. 2000. AFAIK they are still shooting/just finished shooting in New Zealand, and it's supposedly another big budget flick. Geoff >> Yes, I've heard Christmas 2000. I recently heard they were having a big problem because one of the major actors quit. I don't think it's been reported who that was. - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #465 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 466 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] [OT] Lord of the Rings Movie Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Re: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] [OT] Lord of the Rings Movie Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) RE: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:52:26 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] [OT] Lord of the Rings Movie At Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 +0200, wrote: > >Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? >When does it come out? That's all about it I found in Corona's site. It deals with episode 2. I haven't found anything bout episode 1 except there were rumors about an unconfirmed prequel made on the Hobbit book... PS: and just in case anyone's interested, other interesting movies to hit the theatres in 2000 are: X-men (starring Patrick "Picard" Stewart as Xavier) Final Fantasy (nearly all animated) Matrix 2 and 3 Terminator 3 Blade 2 DM The Two Towers Genre: Fantasy/Adventure. Studio: New Line Cinema. Production Company: Wingnut Films. Project Phase: Development Hell. Who's In It: Ian McKellen (Gandalf); Sean Bean (Boromir); Christopher Lee (Saruman); Elijah Wood (Frodo Baggins); Sean Astin (Sam Gamgee). Who's Making It: Peter Jackson (Director); Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh (Screenwriters, Producers); Saul Zaentz, Harvey Weinstein, Bob Weinstein (Executive Producers); Alan Lee, John Howe (Conceptual Artists); Weta Digital (Special Visual Effects); based upon the J.R.R. Tolkien book The Two Towers from the trilogy The Lord of the Rings. Premise: The saga continues as every character is scattered over the face of Middle Earth, each with their own errands trying to stem the tide of darkness. Release Date: Winter 2001. Comments: None. Rumors: Unknown. Scoop Feedback: [Page draft submitted by Widgett.] October 4, 1999... Most of the fun from our page for The Fellowship of the Ring was trying to determine who's cast as who. Since we're fairly certain that most of the insanity has calmed down, it's time to break out, go crazy, and start another page. But first, let's sum up a couple of things before we go any further. This film, along with the one before it and after it, are all being shot back-to-back in New Zealand. They're looking at a budget that has been reported between US$130 million and US$190 million for all three films. Expect a slew of extras of all shapes and sizes, an even bigger slew of CGI effects to alter the actors involved or create characters from scratch, and also expect big ass battle scenes. Now--let the scoops begin. [Information taken from too many Fellowship of the Ring scoopers to mention & theonering.net; summarized by Widgett.] *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:04:07 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s >As I am a great fan of Sierra's "Colonel's BeQuest", Mark of Amber is >IMHO the best RPG module I have ever come across. At least among the >best, at least better than any other D&D / AD&D -modle that I have read. While I can't say that it's the best I've read, I really kept wanting to hear that clock chime between acts like in Colonel's Bequest :~) >But still, the using the CD is probably an easy way of ruining the >adventure. However, the CD can be used as a GM resource, which he can use >himself to flesh out the characters to himself! I thought the cd was very well-done. There were occasional problems, and I skipped a few tracks when my players moved away from the standard series of actions, but otherwise MoA seemed like an excellent cd. >But MoA includes (AFAIK) two plain music tracks, of which at least one >sounds really cheap. There are at least four pieces of theme music on the cd. Some are better than others, but I thought overall they were done very well--especially the way the background music blends with actions that take place during those times, i.e. NPCs at the reception have the music for that scene playing in the background of their speeches. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:06:59 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie >oh, so it IS an american movie... I believe the production crew is primarily American, but Jeremy Irons, at least, is British, and the film was shot in and around Prague to get a medieval feel without constructing too elaborate a set. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:28:50 +0300 (EET DST) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CD:s > While I can't say that it's the best I've read, I really kept wanting to > hear that clock chime between acts like in Colonel's Bequest :~) Now as I come to think of it, I think I should master the Bequest as it is in my campaign... :-) I haven't had the opportunity to use MoA, as my campaign is still in the fall 1005. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:45:43 +1000 From: anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] [OT] Lord of the Rings Movie If you are after information on the film the best site I have found is www.theonering.net it is a very interesting fan site with casting and shoting information Anakin DM wrote: > At Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:09:34 +0200, wrote: > > > >Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? > >When does it come out? > > That's all about it I found in Corona's site. It deals with episode 2. I > haven't found anything bout episode 1 except there were rumors about an > unconfirmed prequel made on the Hobbit book... > > PS: and just in case anyone's interested, other interesting movies to hit > the theatres in 2000 are: > X-men (starring Patrick "Picard" Stewart as Xavier) > Final Fantasy (nearly all animated) > Matrix 2 and 3 > Terminator 3 > Blade 2 > > DM > > The Two Towers > Genre: Fantasy/Adventure. > Studio: New Line Cinema. > Production Company: Wingnut Films. > > Project Phase: Development Hell. > > Who's In It: Ian McKellen (Gandalf); Sean Bean (Boromir); Christopher Lee > (Saruman); Elijah Wood (Frodo Baggins); Sean Astin (Sam Gamgee). > Who's Making It: Peter Jackson (Director); Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh > (Screenwriters, Producers); Saul Zaentz, Harvey Weinstein, Bob Weinstein > (Executive Producers); Alan Lee, John Howe (Conceptual Artists); Weta > Digital (Special Visual Effects); based upon the J.R.R. Tolkien book The > Two Towers from the trilogy The Lord of the Rings. > > Premise: The saga continues as every character is scattered over the face > of Middle Earth, each with their own errands trying to stem the tide of > darkness. > > Release Date: Winter 2001. > > Comments: None. > > Rumors: Unknown. > > Scoop Feedback: > > [Page draft submitted by Widgett.] > > October 4, 1999... Most of the fun from our page for The Fellowship of the > Ring was trying to determine who's cast as who. Since we're fairly certain > that most of the insanity has calmed down, it's time to break out, go > crazy, and start another page. But first, let's sum up a couple of things > before we go any further. This film, along with the one before it and after > it, are all being shot back-to-back in New Zealand. They're looking at a > budget that has been reported between US$130 million and US$190 million for > all three films. Expect a slew of extras of all shapes and sizes, an even > bigger slew of CGI effects to alter the actors involved or create > characters from scratch, and also expect big ass battle scenes. Now--let > the scoops begin. [Information taken from too many Fellowship of the Ring > scoopers to mention & theonering.net; summarized by Widgett.] > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 19:37:18 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie > I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), but > i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir ( > what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger part > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a > crime against the original story...)), and there would be no Tom bombadil in > the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the > galgal...). Actually, Sean Bean has been cast to play Boromir. He's the guy who was the bad guy Janus on the James Bond movie "GoldenEye". Rumor holds, but it's not confirmed, that Faramir, his brother, may be played by Ethan Hawke. As for Sean Connery, I'm sorry, but he is totally wrong for the part of Gandalf. He'd probably be a better Denenthor, (Faramir and Boromir's father) although I favor Patrick Stewart myself for that role. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:55:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? In a message dated 1999-10-28 07:25:05 Eastern Daylight Time, ohadshm@inter.net.il writes: > I seem to remember Merrow could be either two tailed or one tailed. Although > it sais otherwise in their descreptiones, look at the picture in page 8 of > the PC3. I figured the the lower bunch are merrow whie the upper 3 are > tritons. Based on the text descriptions, it is the pictures that are a bit off. It is possible for a merrow or triton to have a single fish tail instead of "legs" if the appropriate roll is made on the "Waves of Fate" tables. Basically, having a single fish tail would be a rare and mostly undesirable mutation -- I suspect they would be able to breed at all given that they are not "normal" members of their respective species. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:16:36 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Here's a writeup for a possible origin for the Followers of the Claymore. Note that if you don't like the Christian connections, they can easily be removed from the origin, and it should still make for a very plausible origin story. Followers of the Claymore On their original homeworld, the family McGregor was just one branch of a larger clan (clan Gregor) in Scotland. Clan Gregor was notoriously belligerent and warlike, and the family McGregor was even more renknowned for harboring sorcerors and committing vile rites. The rumors of their Satanic allegiances were offensive to their Christian neighbors. In truth, while there were many members of the family that did engage in magical practices, the majority were mere warriors and farmers who were just as horrified at their relatives' activities as everyone else. Fortunately, the McGregor's reputations as fierce warriors was sufficient to stave off the attacks of enemy clans, and won the McGregors several allies among their neighbors. As Scottish lands were increasingly being occupied by hated Englishmen, the McGregor family found themselves ever more persecuted for their supposed Satanic beliefs, and they began to be pushed out of their ancestral lands. A McGregor sorceror proposed leaving Scotland by way of magicks he had learned from a member of the d'Ambreville family years earlier. After much deliberation, the rest of the family agreed, and began to make preparations to move to the new world of Mystara, free from the persecution and domination of the English. Several members of allied families also opted to join them in this journey. The McGregors and their allies arrived in the highland valleys of Braejr, where they settled. The land was sufficiently like their former home of Scotland that they were able to readjust quickly. Less agreeable was the preponderance of magical practices in this new land, which equated to evil and Satanic ritual to the mostly Christian transplants. Many moved to other, surrounding lands, but most remained in the highlands, free to live their lives as they did in Scotland prior to the arrival of the English. When the Braejr Council of Lords outlawed all clerical teachings in 747 AC, there was an outrage among clerics in Braejr. Located in the highlands, most of the Scotsmen were ignorant or uncaring of the new law, confident that distance would keep them safe. Several recalled the stories of the Roman persecution of the Christians back on their home world. In an attempt to fight back against this declaration, the Brothers of the Claymore were founded- a band of warriors and priests who committed acts of terrorism- on their own and in conjunction with other illegal clerical groups- against the mages of Braejr. Such activities only inflamed the Flaemish people of Braejr even more and led to clashes between the clerics and mages of the nation, the most notable being the Great Burnings of 750 and 754 AC. The underground nature of the Brothers' organization was the only thing that spared them from Flaemish retaliation during the rebellion of 754, when the Flaems wiped out nearly all able-bodied men of Thyatian and Traladaran descent. When war broke out once more between the Thyatian and Flaemish communities in 784 AC, the Brothers of the Claymore (now a much more organized faction) formed one of the pillars of Thyatian aggression. Throughout the next four years, they would work closely with their Thyatian neighbors to try and wipe out the Flaemish across the land. Tensions between the clergy and magic-users of Braejr took a backseat during the Forty Years' War (788-828 AC) when the Alphatian wizard Halzunthram appeared in Braejr. Shortly after the defeat of the Flaemish by their opposition, Halzunthram and his army declared the nation a protectorate of Alphatia. Feeling a sense of deja-vu, the Scotsmen of the highlands (the Brothers of the Claymore among them) took up arms against the Alphatians. They were determined not to be driven out of yet another land by oppressive conquerors. Together with their allies living in the rest of Braejr, they were able to defeat Halzunthram and drive out the Alphatians. An accord was signed among the allied peoples, dividing the lands of Braejr (now the Republic of Glantri) more or less equally between them, and giving the rulers autonomy from one another. The Brothers of the Claymore, satisfied that they could live in peace, free from religious persecution in their new home (now known as Klantyre), hung up their claymores and retired from their terrorist activities. The Light of Rad decision in 858 AC changed everything. The momentous decision reserved the right to rule in Glantri to magic-users only- all other rulers were to be immediately stripped of their lands and rights. Overnight, Glantri changed from a Republic to a Magocracy. Only the fact that most of the rulers were already magic-users kept the nation from erupting into immediate revolt. Some rulers gave up their titles quietly, while others (such as the notorious Count Urnst Blofeld) fought a bitter battle to retain their titles. In the end, the magocracy won out. For the Scottish families in Klantyre, the change to a magocracy was even worse. The new ruler, a McGregor, once again instituted the anti-clerical policies that the Braejr Council had passed many years previously (a process that was to take place elsewhere in Glantri). Prince McGregor's brutal militia began to persecute the Christians in Klantyre, burning their churches and slaying their priests. Former members of the Brothers of the Claymore, once heroes in Klantyre, were now outlaws, and were executed for their previous deeds. Prince McGregor's policies didn't fully succeed in their efforts however. Many Klantyrians saw the Brothers of the Claymore as martyrs, and their sons and daughters reformed the group. The words and deeds of the Brothers spread quickly across the lands of Glantri, where they found equal sentiments among other clerical groups that were being persecuted. The Brothers of the Claymore reformed and renamed themselves the Followers of the Claymore as they attracted allies among the dispossessed priests and malcontent warriors of the Glantrian population. Today, the Followers of the Claymore still persevere as an underground faction. They are led by Sir Duncan McGregor and are most active in the Sablestone region (which remains largely uncontrolled, despite the establishment of the Principality of Sablestone). They are closely associated with the Free Fundamentalist Farmers of Glantri. Both groups actively plot and plan for the day that they will be able to overthrow the magocracy and reinstitute the republic first established by Lord Alexander Glantri. The relaxing of laws in regards to the practice of clerical magic has helped the cause of the Followers, but they still long to be allowed total freedom of religious practice. - ------------- As this stands, then, the Brothers of the Claymore were a strictly Christian group, similar to the Teutonic Knights of the Real World (except that they were an underground movement, not sanctioned in any way). The current Followers of the Claymore is more of a non-denominational movement (at least in the sense that the clerics of the order are from a variety of different belief systems, mostly native to Mystara). - ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:25:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re:- D&D movie In a message dated 1999-10-28 07:24:57 Eastern Daylight Time, ohadshm@inter.net.il writes: > >"The movie will be PG-13. Different camera angles are being shot in the > battle scenes to enable the director (who is an avid D&D player), to use > >the most violent combat possible for a PG-13 rating. > > Pardon my ignorence, but does that mean it is intended for ages 13 and up? > If so this is the best way to make it popular among kids, at least here in > Israel. I rememner when I was a teenager and movies were age restricted, that > was good enough of a reason to go and see that movie, aspcialy if I was 2-3 > years younger than alowed. Such a movie will be regarded automaticaly by > young teenagers as "cool", and as a result I predict a major influx of new > young players. (this remark is not intended to offend any young member of the > mailing list, it is just how things go...) That is pretty much how things work here in the States. The vulgar cartoon "South Park" is very popular among children even though (or perhaps because) it is rated "TV-MA" (for ages 17 and up only). Children in the 10-12 range will definitely be attracted to a PG-13 movie. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:25:03 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) In a message dated 1999-10-28 08:38:46 Eastern Daylight Time, clenarius@hotmail.com writes: > I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), but > i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir > (what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger part > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a > crime against the original story...)), Are you sure you are not referring to Eowyn, who legitimately wields a sword? > and there would be no Tom bombadil in > the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the > galgal...). They would probably just skip everything from Old Man Willow until they reach Bree. That is one of the few excisions that could be carried out cleanly. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:25:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? In a message dated 1999-10-28 10:06:56 Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@nvg.ntnu.no writes: > Has anyone seen the CD yet? > Is the VotPA stuff included? Any other interesting D&D/Mystara/Known World > articles? Overall, is the CD worth it? The answer to each and every one of these questions is "Yes". Absolutely everything from the first 250 issues of Dragon magazine (with the exception of a few game components -- so "Orcwars" is not all there) is included in the archive. TSR basically lost interest in Mystara shortly after issue #200, so all of the VotPA and Known World Grimoire articles are in there, along with Bruce Heard's later lupin and rakasta articles. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:55:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) After some thought, I've decided IMO, that even though alignment languages (ALs) are a canon "in character" aspect of OD&D Mystara, that I now agree with most others, and think that ALs shouldn't be an *explicit* part of 3E Mystara canon. I still believe however, that ALs should be *optional* for 3E Mystara, with this issue of "the 3E alignment languages option" reserved for the later, more detailed 3E conversion materials, and left out of the initial wave of conversion material (where new D&D players might be confused). The topic of 3E ALs was discussed during the last Mystara chat, and during the chat I was trying to find the canon passage that describes how AL works "in character". Unfortunately, that passage wasn't in GAZ1 like I thought at the time (unless I'm blind)...so Jeff, you're probably right that there's no explanation of ALs in the Gazetteers. I think I was confusedly remembering the explanation of how class level titles aren't relevant in Karameikos [p6]. Be that as it may, I swear I've read such a canon explanation of ALs...can anybody help me out with where to find that passage? (My Mystara stuff is in disarray from recent household rearranging.) IIRC, the passages said that ALs are composed of infinitely subtle gestural enhancements of normal spoken language, and can be used for simple, secret communication between similarly aligned sentient beings, (no matter what planet or plane they're from in the Mystaran Multiverse!). If the beings don't share a spoken language, then IIRC (I may be remembering this wrong), ALs can only be used to identify that the two communicating beings are of the same alignment, but not for communication (please correct me if anyone has the relevant text). Also, the character's previous AL is irrevocably lost as soon as a character changes alignment, and the proper AL is immediately gained (how odd!). With this canon explanation, the only explanation of the acquisition and loss of ALs that I could think of, was that ALs are cosmically-bestowed/Old One-bestowed skills which are immediately forgotten when a being's personality shifts to an new cosmic alignment. The new AL is gained in the same way. Does this make sense? Assuming that the passage actually exists (ie. I'm not crazy), then ALs actually *do* exist in canon OD&D Mystara. Therefore properly, a truly faithful 3E adaptation of Mystara would include ALs (though only 3 ALs -- L, N, & C, as opposed to AD&D1E's 9 ALs, since Mystara was never described using 1E rules), even if the other TSR settings dropped them without explanation in the switch from AD&D1E to 2E (though the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover may've given an IC explanation for the loss of ALs during the Time of Troubles...if anybody has that book, please share that IC explanation). Having said that, ALs were never filled out, or meaningfully used in any XD&D setting, but I feel they *could've* been, if modules and accessories would've included opportunities where ALs were needed. This could've especially been so for Mystara where Law and Chaos are more tangible concepts than in the other settings. ALs could've been a secret cosmic bond which united all sentients in the multiverse-spanning war between the forces of Stasis and Entropy. IMC, I make use of AL using this explanation. Ah well, the canon use of ALs never really came to fruition, so... ...since most people think of ALs as kooky, and since AL is only passingly mentioned in Mystara canon (or for that matter, in *any* setting's canon), I'd be satisfied with a 3E Mystara conversion that simply *ignored* the issue altogether. Similarly, I'd prefer that the conversion *not* explicitly say "3E Mystara has no ALs", but rather leave that to the DMs. If ALs are mentioned at all in the document (for instance, ALs may have to be explained somewhat, so that Mystara newbies won't be confused by references to ALs in OD&D products), I'd like to see something on the order of "Though OD&D Mystara includes ALs, the use of ALs in 3E Mystara is solely up to the DM". Alongside this statement, maybe the passage that explains AL in Mystara could be reprinted. Comments? Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:59:41 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) > In a message dated 1999-10-28 08:38:46 Eastern Daylight Time, > clenarius@hotmail.com writes: > > > I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), > but > > i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir > > > (what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger > part > > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , > this > a > > crime against the original story...)), > > Are you sure you are not referring to Eowyn, who legitimately wields a > sword? > [MURPHY Jason] From what i heard....the writers may have merged the Arwen and Eowyn characters. This sort of thing cannot be entirely unexpected as books have so many characters. The writers will have to cater to a low common denominator (hopefully not the lowest) and making an audience keep track of many important characters may simply be too much for people looking for light entertainment. So no matter how good the intention of the director are i am going to be prepared for a slight disapointment, and then when i actually see the movie i may be plaesantly surprised :) Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:55:02 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) The major reference to alignment languages that I have been able to find is in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, page 11. That reference says that upon change of alignment a character forgets his original alignment language and immedi- ately acquires his new one. Some AD&D 1st edition reference more realisti- cally says that a character who changes alignment goes through a brief period (the time required to regain the lost level) of knowing no alignment language before learning the new one. In any case, I would suggest that "alignment languages" should be severely limited in what they can convey -- and that the very first message one conveys by using an alignment language is to reveal one's own alignment, for good or for ill. I think the best way to handle use of an "alignment language" is to give a bonus for non-verbal communication between any two characters who share the same alignment, on the basis that they have an intuitive understanding of each other's general motives. For some suggested limitations as to how much information can be conveyed via an alignment language, I would recommend referring to the "Sign Language" proficiency in the "Complete Barbarian's Handbook". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:08:03 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) Excuse my ignorance.... but is there any sort of precedent for the Alignment Language rules in fantasy literature and such. Or is it simply a device that the game designers thought would be groovy? Jason Murphy Software Engineer MITS Limited EMAIL: jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au PHONE: 08 9481 4066 FAX: 08 9481 4064 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:42:07 +0000 From: "Mike Harvey" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) > Excuse my ignorance.... but is there any sort of precedent for the Alignment > Language rules in fantasy literature and such. Or is it simply a device that > the game designers thought would be groovy? FWIW, I figure that alignment languages were originally meant to represent "meaningful looks" and "knowing what so-and-so is thinking". Probably in an early game of D&D some enterprising player wanted to communicate with an NPC or monsters of similar alignment, and argued that since they had similar values and goals they should understand each other. My guess is that this evolved into the notion of "alignment languages" and went downhill from there. Personally I like the idea that similarly aligned creatures can communicate to a limited extent. But I don't like to think of it as a language. However, in defense of the language idea, I think there is some "real world" precedent. Using an example I am most familiar with, Christians can communicate certain ideas related to their religion through the use of certain jargon and nonverbal cues. It is not just religions either; two physics majors can tell "inside jokes" at a party and know exactly what each other means, but it will be meaningless gibberish to other folks. Jargon is language, or at least a modified subset of a language. Seen this way, alignment language could just be double meanings and innuendos related to a shared alignment background. As far as "forgetting" alignment langauges when you switch alignment, that is a bit far-fetched. Even the most dramatic change in lifestyle doesn't make you forget what you were like before; you'll still remember the jargon and the mindset. I think the reason this is in the rules is for game balance; otherwise it would encourage everyone to switch alignments so they could learn additional alignment languages -- which of course would make the whole idea of alignment languages kind of pointless. Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:15:29 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie "As for Sean Connery, I'm sorry, but he is totally wrong for the part of Gandalf. He'd probably be a better Denenthor, (Faramir and Boromir's father) although I favor Patrick Stewart myself for that role." Maybe we all are too used to see sir Sean as a hero so that we cannot help imagining him in Gandalf.But i would like to hear your arguments anyway as to why he cannot fit to the role of Gandalf.Maybe my problem figuring anybody else in the role comes from my not knowing who most of the cast is (apart from P. Stewart and i am just realizing that their is irony in the choice of the actor because Denethor is the last steward of Gondor.) - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #466 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 467 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads RE: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:20:14 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) > I cannot think of this movie without Sean Connery (saruman or gandalf), but > i have read somewhere that Bruce Willis could be picked to play Boromir > (what a curious Numenorian he would make) , Arwen is to have a bigger part > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a > crime against the original story...)), Are you sure you are not referring to Eowyn, who legitimately wields a sword? > and there would be no Tom bombadil in > the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the > galgal...). They would probably just skip everything from Old Man Willow until they reach Bree. That is one of the few excisions that could be carried out cleanly. No i am sure i read that Arwen was to wield a sword (heresy!!!!). As for the part they would skip i wonder how they gonna explain to the audience where the Hobbits got their Dunadan blades....which incidently lead them to "kill" the Witch King. (I know there is a debate regarding who killed the king of Angmar but....) - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:22:05 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) [MURPHY Jason] From what i heard....the writers may have merged the Arwen and Eowyn characters. This sort of thing cannot be entirely unexpected as books have so many characters. The writers will have to cater to a low common denominator (hopefully not the lowest) and making an audience keep track of many important characters may simply be too much for people looking for light entertainment. So no matter how good the intention of the director are i am going to be prepared for a slight disapointment, and then when i actually see the movie i may be plaesantly surprised :) Jason i do agree with you Jason .We just have to wait.... - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) The emerging consensus seems to be that psionics are not present on, and are alien to, Mystara (and the rest of Mystara's multiverse as well?). I agree that, since magic is the main focus of Mystara, and since OD&D Mystara didn't have psionics, that psionics should not be a significant part of 3E Mystara. However, there *are* a few canon references to Mystaran psionics that need to be explained before I personally can support a total absence of psionics in the canon 3E conversion: (All of these examples were brought up on the MMB. If anyone has found other canon references to psionics or typically-psionic creatures on Mystara, please say so.) a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook (available free at WotC's site) includes rules for psionic characters. Every PC race in that book is allowed to become a psionicist (but only "if you use psionics in your campaign"). There's even a "Savage Psionicist" kit detailed (which is the essentially the same as the "Savage Wizard" kit though). Though this would seem to be irrefutable evidence of psionics in Mystara's canon, the designers, after every mention of psionics, go to some length to consistently add: "only if psionics are allowed in your campaign". A related question: are psionics mentioned at all in the Red Steel boxed set? I only have the RS Savage Baronies set and the online Savage Coast Campaign Setting and Monstrous Compendium Appendix, none of which mentions psionics as far as I can tell. If there's psionic references in the RS box, please someone post it, or summarize it, so that the material could be used in this discussion. b) There's apparently an explanation (in "Mark of Amber"?) of how mind flayers (AKA illithids), which are the ultimate psionic creature, came to dwell on Mystara. Someone has suggested changing the reference to "mind flayers" to the more specifically Mystaran "brain collectors". This is not a bad idea IMO, but ideally I'd prefer to keep the canonicity of the original reference. Could someone who has access to this product please post at least a summary of this material? I'd like to see the explanation (if any) of their origin on Mystara, because if the canon text suggests that they are from another planet or dimension, then we could say that psionics *do* theoretically *work* on Mystara, but that no *native* Mystarans are psionic (though, see below -- I prefer to say that psionics are just abnormally rare on Mystara). c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. Again, I think it'd be useful for the discussion, for someone to post at least a summary of the kenkus' place on Mystara, and to what degree there psionic powers are dealt with in the product. Someone suggested that Mystaran kenkus' "psionic powers" simply be reinterpreted as inherent non-psionic powers. [On a side note, in addition to these canon psi-references, there are also, as expected, several mentions of psionics in fan-material -- just enter "psionics" and "psionicist" on Shawn's "search page", and you'll see a listing of these articles. Of course, fan-material is of secondary concern in our 3E conversion project, but if there are canon references to back them up, I feel there's nothing wrong with being aware of how the conversion would affect existing non-canon material.] Anyway, if the above examples are indeed canon, then instead of saying that there are *no* psionics on Mystara, I'd prefer that we simply say that psionic beings are even rarer on Mystara than they are in other settings. In other words, on Mystara, psionics are *practically*, though not *absolutely*, nonexistant (I'm not sure if this is a feature of just the planet and moons of Mystara, or if it applies to all of the planets and planes of Mystara's multiverse, but I suppose, since there's not much canon material on extraplanetary locales, then we don't need to worry about this for the immediate future). This explanation would retain the canonicity of the above psionic references, while keeping Mystara a *virtually* psionic-free planet. We could even say in the 3E conversion rules (just as the designer of the Orc's Head Peninsula implied) that due to its rarity on Mystara, the psionicist is explicitly an *optional* class, requiring DM permission (which is theoretically true for *any* class, but we could particularly stress this in regards to the psionicist). Similarly, wild talents, if allowed by the DM, must successfully roll on the "Testing for Wild Talents" chart *twice* in a row, instead of the normal single successful roll (see PO:S&P, p156 for this chart, or the equivalent chart in the CPsiH). This would make wild talents *very* rare, as the player would need to roll under about a 1-5% chance (depending on the character's ability, class, level, etc.) *two* times in a row. Rolling twice on the table would also double the chances of the character suffering mental and/or bodily damage from the testing attempt, which would also help make Mystaran psionics users rarer than usual. If the DM prefers *not* to use psionics in his or her campaign, then for any psionic Mystaran creatures (eg. kenkus, mind flayers...both very rare on Mystara, I assume), they can simply use the "mundane versions" of the creatures' psionic powers. When I say "mundane versions", I'm referring to the way that psionic creatures' powers will be described in the 3E Monster Manual, as the 3E psionics guide won't be out yet, so, just as in the 2E Monstrous Compendium (which came out before the new 2E psionics rules) the psionic powers of those creatures will most likely be described simply as inherent natural abilities in the meantime. Finally, I've heard it mentioned several times by WotC employees (on the WotC message boards) that though psionics will *not* be included in the 3E PH or DMG, there *are* plans to do a 3E psionics rulebook after the first wave of 3E core books, so I don't believe that anyone should think that we can just ignore psionics as if they were going to be simply dropped from 3E...so I think it's still important that we deal with "Psionics in Mystara" in some fashion, especially since there are existing canon references to psionics, coupled with the fact that it'd probably be good for Mystara to support most future "generic" 3E rulebooks (including the psionics guide), as long as the material has some precedent in Mystaran canon. Comments? Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:13:41 +0200 From: Frank Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) I think psionics SHOULD be a part of the mystara universe, but only in a very controlled way. The way psionics are presesented in the skills &powers book suits Mystara better then. You could imagine having more characters some sort of minor wild power, which can actually enhance the 'heroic-factor' in your characters. Real psionicist should be 1) rare (by raising the ability requirements for many powers) and 2) less powerfull as described in the psionicist handbook, restricting some options... This way psionics will be rare and less powerfull, probably even a little less than a wizard, though more versatile... Frank *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:30:24 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... At Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:36:02 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >The conversion book prepared by WotC will only have guidelines to convert >OD&D PC stats and spells to 3E. Nothing related to Mystara otherwise. Well, that's good enough to me! This could prompt old timers to buy the conversion guide and the 3Ed.. better than nothing. >WotC is >presently tied up with their present strategy of not supporting OOP worlds Yes, they made that perfectly clear. And after they discontinued RL and PS this year, I am not surprised nor ashamed by this decision. They'll support FR and GH only, so they said, so it's perfectly logical not to await anything related to Mystara in 3Ed. We'll see if this strategy will repay them.. >I may be able to get a few people involved on a standard non-disclosure >agreement to go over out these conversion guidelines and see if we can >contribute anything else to it as well. I'll have more about this next week. >What I'm suggesting is that we start off with these conversion guidelines at >least to cover our bases with OD&D rules, and then that we elaborate with all >the Mystara-specific data on our own. One basic question Bruce: how are "we" (meaning the standard D&D guy with no access to 3Ed rules save a few scant info leeked from TSR chatrooms or NG) supposed to write or contribute to the creation of conversion rules from one system to another if we DON'T KNOW one of the two systems involved (namely 3Ed, which should still be a secret IIRC, known only to the playtesters and the creators)? >This would be the basis for establishing a 3E language on the net. This >document becomes key to preparing the 3E section on the official Mystara web >site as well. If we can complete the document's first part early enough we >then stand a good chance at launching the official 3E page before the release >of the new PHB. Uh, really? Should we be allowed to do such a scoop? I got the impression that we had to start producing the first things with 3Ed rules AFTER the 3Ed had been released... in fact, if we started before 3ed is published, then not everyone will be able to participate, since not everyone will have access to the 3Ed guidelines.. (me for example ;)) I bet this could be considered a bit annoying by many... >Actually, another thing that would be useful is to officially >schedule 3E Mystara events at GenCon, specifically to attract new players >right from the beginning. Advertising these events on the official Mystara >site wouldn't be bad thing either. Wouldn't it be nice if we used GenCon as >an opportunity to hand out to new players a well-designed pamphlet including >our 3E-Mystara guidelines and genuine "ads" for the MML/MMB, the official >Mystara web site and other cool fan sites? That would be great, IMHO! If we can help, I'm sure we'll be able to promote gaming sessions and give out the pamphlet even here in Italy at the most important gaming conventions.. >I've also shamelessly plugged with the WotC folks our Immortal rules as a >possible starting point or a source of inspiration for the development of 3E >rules on gods. Sorry, I don't think I have understood this one properly: what do u mean with "our Immortal rules"? you mean the gold set and WotI? >In addition to this or as an alternate approach, I've also >suggested consideration be given within this product to converting/adapting >in some way OD&D Immortals. This one's a "toughie" considering the prevalent >policy on OOP properties so I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I pointed >out that some people may be interested in helping out with this (again -- >this will requires the ubiquitous non-disclosure agreement). Keep your >fingers crossed. Well, the possibility to play an exhalted creature has still a great appeal to many D&D players and writers as well, considering the lastest publication of Warriors of Heaven, where PC classes for Angels are given. I bet the rules for making one's PC immortal should gain a favorable amount of good responses from the fans if WotC puts them in their new 3Ed. And surely the immortal rules are a good starting point, I agree. However, since WotC won't be supporting a COMMON outer planar geography (the new Manual of the Planes will just tell DMs how to create their cosmology -with Planescape being only a POSSIBLE WAY of handling the issue), what could this mean in terms of Immortal Entities? Is there a possible connection between WotC's policy on generic setting in the outer planes and the possibility offered to players to play an outer planar creature? I mean, will this still be possible with 3Ed? If not, than the whole discussion about Immortals and Gods is pointless. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:18:22 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) In case anyone is likely to play through Mark of Amber or Chateau d'Ambreville, this contains some quasi-spoilers and would best be avoided by anyone hoping to be completely surprised... >a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook... I remember reading several references such as "...if the DM allows Psionics in your campaign," and I think such references exist in both the Red Steel box and the SCMC (free download), as well as Orc's Head. Unfortunately, i don't have my Red Steel set here, so I can't post the exact reference. >b) There's apparently an explanation (in "Mark of >Amber"?) of how mind flayers (AKA illithids), which >are the ultimate psionic creature, came to dwell on >Mystara. Someone has suggested changing the reference >to "mind flayers" to the more specifically Mystaran >"brain collectors". This is not a bad idea IMO, but >ideally I'd prefer to keep the canonicity of the >original reference. Could someone who has access to >this product please post at least a summary of this >material? I'd like to see the explanation (if any)... - --SPOILER WARNING-- There's no real explanation. While I do not own X2, my understanding is that there is a Brain Collector in that adventure. In Mark of Amber, a mind flayer is in the same place that the Brain Collector was in X2. There might be some brief statement that the mind flayer has been sent by the same evil powers that sent Halzunthram the now-Rakshasa (I ran the adventure, and I'm still not too clear on either of these monsters). At any rate, it seems that the Mind Flayer was stuck in there not as a means of introducing Psionics, but rather as the easiest 2nd Edition substitute for a Brain Collector. >c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus I don't know what a kenku is nor where this reference came from--and I've seen almost all of the AD&D Mystara material. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:29:11 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Since I don't have the Halfling or Dwarven Gazetteers (and it might be at least somewhat pertinent to the current 3E conversion discussion), I'm curious as to whether rules are given for either of these races' couplings with humans. It seems logical that these races would be more likely to be able to produce half-breeds with humans than would elves, but then again PC1 seems to indicate that elves and men are a bit more closely related than one might think since they can each reproduce successfully with dryads or hamadryads (although the offspring will always be another dryad) and halflings and dwarves cannot. With a PC dryad in my current Yavdlom campaign, I'm trying to figure out exactly what she can do. I'm thinking that, rather than a "charm person" restricted only by gender, she should be able only to charm males of those races with which she can reproduce. What do people think about this possible interpretation? Thanks Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:03:33 +0800 From: "Murphy, Jason" Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? > The answer to each and every one of these questions is "Yes". Absolutely > everything from the first 250 issues of Dragon magazine (with the > exception > of a few game components -- so "Orcwars" is not all there) is included in > the archive. TSR basically lost interest in Mystara shortly after issue > #200, > so all of the VotPA and Known World Grimoire articles are in there, along > with Bruce Heard's later lupin and rakasta articles. > [MURPHY Jason] Orcwars wouldnt happen to be the tongue in cheek game that came out with the "Orcs of Thar" gaz would it? Cheers Jason *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:38:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread - --- IronWolf wrote: > If anyone has any suggestions or material already > prepared > they would like to submit, please don't hesitate to > let me > know! Since I'm still catching up on MML messages from being out-of-town, forgive me if someone has already answered your question. Here's some material you might want to use for reference: 1) http://dnd.starflung.com/dwthaneg.html "Dark Worship in the Known World - The Thanegioth Archipelago" by Geoff Gander, describes the twisted inhabitants of the elongate isle ("Bararna Isle")just to the east of the Isle of Dread. Geoff said, on the MMB, that the large bight which is visible on the southeastern edge of the island would be a good place to locate the story's "Discovery Cove". 2) http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan.html AND http://dnd.starflung.com/ispan2.html "The History of the Ispan People" by James Mishler, details two islands in the archipelago [overviews quoted from the second URL]: - --Nueva Ispañola is the easternmost island in the Thanegioth Archipelago. It was settled in 875 AC by several thousand Ispans and remains an Ispan stronghold to this day. AND - --Cubia Occidental is the largest isle in the Western Thanegioth Archipelago, settled by groups of Ispans that did not complete the journey to the Savage Coast; subsequently, many Yavi, Sindhi and Huleans settled in the region. Many of these islands are now occupied by Ispan pirates. The entire region is now known as the "Karakarine", named after the indigenous tribes of Humanoids that were discovered to occupy the isles. [BTW, James, if you're reading this, exactly which island is the "largest" in the Wrn. Thanegioths? With the maps I have, I'm having a hard time picking which is obviously the largest.] 3)http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081/tomevol1/tervine/tervine.html [in Tome of Mystara Issue #1] "Tervine's Travels" by Carl Quaif, describes "Neogana Isle" where a mysterious people dwell. [BTW, Carl, which island in the Thanegioths would you prefer to designate as Neogana?] 4) There are several smaller bits of fan-information on the Thanegioths. If you're interested, I suggest you simply enter "Thanegioth" at Shawn's "search page". Hope this helps. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 3E -- Goblinoids - --- H嶡rd_RFaanes wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > > How would we convert these character types to 3E? > I suspect that the > > default class for such characters should be the > barbarian class, which > > I assume will be very much toned down from > "Unearthed Arcana". > The fighter class probably should not be > available to goblinoids > > who have trouble getting a full suit of armor > together. > > I've never seen a fighter as anything but a > character who fights alot. And > I haven't thought that any military training would > be required to assume > this class. This is also why I dont see the need for > the introduction of a > barbarian class. > Anyway, I still think the fighter should be an > available class, but it > depends on how it is presented in the rulebook... IMO, I think we need to try to take into account not only how a straight OD&D to 3E conversion could work (as if AD&D never existed), but also how relatively mundane features of a campaign world that are common to both OD&D and AD&D compare in their rules depiction. What I mean is, in this particular example, I think it's important to note that there is a long tradition in both AD&D1E and AD&D2E of using the fighter class as the basic, most natural class for all monstrous PCs (including the Mystara-specific humanoids of the Savage Coast setting, along with the plethora of humanoid PC articles in Dragon magazine), and that these monstrous PCs will likely be converted from AD&D2E to D&D3E as fighters. If there'd been an 2E boxed set covering the Broken Lands, I'm pretty sure that all of the goblinoids would've been given the fighter class as their baseline, in which case these characters would've mostly been converted to 3E fighters for the new edition. (However, I understand that the 2E "barbarian fighter" class [from the "Complete Barbarian's Handbook"] wouldn't have been chosen as the base class for AD&D goblinoids, even if it was appropriate, as it isn't a core class). It seems natural that barbarian goblinoid (and other humanoid) characters may be a fairly common occurance in 3E settings, but I agree with Haavard that the fighter class should still remain the most common humanoid class, no matter which campaign world. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 04:30:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Character Monster guides? - --- Jamuga Khan wrote: > Is this DRAGON Archive CD-ROM worth its prize? I've > seen it today and it costs DM 135.00 (appr. $65). > I've decide to buy it not, at least not today... IMO it's definitely worth the price. It has every single article, illustration, advertisement, cover, etc. from every issue up to #250 (minus anything that was originally included as an insert, such as posters and boardgames). The pages are directly scanned in -- without reformatting, reediting, or abridgement -- so it's just like having the whole stack of Dragon mags. It would cost a *lot* more that $65 to collect all of those issues (especially considering the earlier, more collectible ones), and even if you could, it'd be a bugger trying to leaf through them all for game reference. BTW, I'd think you could find it somewhere cheaper than $65 -- for Europe, you might want to try http://www.amazon.de or http://www.amazon.co.uk. Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:41:11 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > "only if psionics are allowed in your campaign". This is an Important Phrase. Mystara has NEVER had mention of Psionics before the AD&D2. conversion and I don't consider ANY of the AD&D2 Mystara material as part of canon. Bruce's VotPA articles are the only canon mention of the Savage Coast (save for X9). IMHO, of course. > c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are > psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. Much like just simply dropping any AD&D monster on Mystara without explaination, solving this problem should be a no-brainer. I have a real problem with psionics in D&D. This is the major source of my ill-will towards the idea. Personally, I find them to be far overpowered, and just dumb in a fantasy setting, Psionics is a great tool when in _modern_ games where magic is not as widely known (i.e Heroes Unlimited games, or Rifts, or whatever) However, and again, this is my opinion, psionics have no place on Mystara. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:17:12 +0200 (CEST) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, SteelAngel wrote: Ah! The Psionics debate...again! > > "only if psionics are allowed in your campaign". > > This is an Important Phrase. Mystara has NEVER had mention > of Psionics before the AD&D2. conversion and I don't > consider ANY of the AD&D2 Mystara material as part of canon. > Bruce's VotPA articles are the only canon mention of the > Savage Coast (save for X9). Ofcourse, Bruce mentioned introducing psionics to OD&D in the letters column in one of the VotPA series.... It is true that OD&D didnt have psionics, and thus it wasnt introduced to the setting. But OD&D had other things. The powers of the Mystic for instance, that could be translated into psionics in AD&D. > I have a real problem with psionics in D&D. This is the > major source of my ill-will towards the idea. Personally, I > find them to be far overpowered, and just dumb in a fantasy > setting, Psionics is a great tool when in _modern_ games > where magic is not as widely known (i.e Heroes Unlimited > games, or Rifts, or whatever) However, and again, this is my > opinion, psionics have no place on Mystara. I can understand why you have a problem with psionis as they are presented in the Complete Psionics handbook (and other AD&D rules), since they are as you say overpowered and unbalanced. But I disagree with you that they only belong in non-fantasy settings. Psionics aren't neccesarily of the sci-fi type. What I've argued before (and probably will again) is that psionics can be used to represent eastern type mysticism which could easily fit into various regions of Mystara. Yavdlom, Sind, Glantri, Isle of Dawn (Thothia) The Federation (Thats the sci-fi version) Where else? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #467 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 468 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:28:51 -0500 From: Theron Bretz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? I got mine yesterday from Amazon. It consists of five(!) CDs containing every page of every issue of Dragon 1-250 (and The Strategic Review 1-7) including the advertisements, supplements, and everything else. The issues are stored on disk in .pdf format; the archive comes with a built in reader with complex search capabilities, or you can just read a particular issue with Adobe Acrobat Reader if you know what you're looking for. So yes, it has all of the VotPA material and much, much more. Theron Bretz Houston, TX - -----Original Message----- From: Håvard Rønne Faanes To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:06 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? Has anyone seen the CD yet? Is the VotPA stuff included? Any other interesting D&D/Mystara/Known World articles? Overall, is the CD worth it? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:35:08 GMT From: "Nicolas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads >From: Patrick Sullivan >Since I don't have the Halfling or Dwarven Gazetteers (and it might be at >least somewhat pertinent to the current 3E conversion discussion), I'm >curious as to whether rules are given for either of these races' couplings >with humans. They do not seem to be capable of cross-breeding with humans, I cannot think of any examples, and certainly no rules are given, a la Elves of Alfheim, for determining effective race. I seem to recall a very small blurb in some product, maybe even a module, that explicity states only elves can reproduce with humans, but I may be mistaken. On the other hand, CM6 Where Chaos Reigns, introduces a very short human, and several of the dwarves in that module remark that he might have dwarven blood. It is a module, which many on the list seem to interpret as less canon than the gazeteers, and the dwarves could have been joking in any event. Several gazeteers, however, have explicitly noted that orcs can interbreed with humans, and the resulting child may look like a mix, but will effectively be one or the other (generally a very ugly one) for class terms. Unlike elf-human matings, the orc-human crossbreed is not dependant on the sex of either parent for determing what the offspring will be. We also know from Orcs of Thar that all of the humanoids listed therein can breed amongst themselves, producing intermediate races. Thus, it would seem reasonable that kobolds (perhaps not them, I'll get back to that in a minute), goblins, ogres, et al., can succesfully, more or less, mate with humans. Also of note is the Shadow Elves plan via vis their sickly born: it appears that one of the goals of the abandoning of Shadow Elf unfit babies is to dilute the humanoid bloodstream. This, along with several other vague phrases, implies that humanoids and elves can cross-breed, which would make sense, given that humans can with both. Probably the largest obstacle to a potential corss-breed among these similar races would be relative size: while an elf and an ogre might be capable of reproducing, an ogre fetus in an elf body would be an immense strain. This would seem to encourage dwarven and Hin females to not mate with humans, but does not, of course, prevent males of either race from amting with humans. Ultimately, there does not appear to be any "genetic" reason to prevent such cross-breeds if the DM so chooses, and I feel, as far as I know, that the canon material is insufficient to make a hard ruling. Side Note 1: Although not mentioned in ORcs of Thar, the Northern Reaches raises he possibility that the kbolds are, in fact, one of the Elder Races, more akin to the elves and dwarves than orcs and goblins. No evidence is given for this claim, aside from the fact that scholars theorize of such a possibility. Side Note 2: In the Dark Sun setting, humans and dwarves can cross-breed, resulting in a mul, who are usually trained for Athas' arenas as gladiators, and are invariably sterile. With a PC dryad in my current Yavdlom >campaign, I'm trying to figure out exactly what she can do. I'm thinking >that, rather than a "charm person" restricted only by gender, she should be >able only to charm males of those races with which she can reproduce. What >do people think about this possible interpretation? I always thought of the dryads' charm as consisting of beauty, and thus any sentient creature, regardless of race or culture, that appreciated that beauty would be attracted; in my use of them, I took a Platonic view, and held that dryads gave off an aura of the Beauty Itself, and thus people who were more cultured, wise, and intelligent would be more suspetible, given that they were more likely to appreciate anything Itself. I do not have PC1 though, and I do not know how the material therin would affect this interpretation. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:39:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] - --- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > Based on what we do know, why not start > drafting a tentative list > of questionable features (perhaps using 2nd Edition > as a starting point)? I agree that the relatively small amount of 2E material will be useful in guiding the OD&D to 3E conversion. However, one major problem with the 2E stuff is that only tidbits of the Known World (and the KW's unique classes and races) were covered in 2E, namely, just Karameikos and Glantri, along with scattered conversions in the Almanacs. The Red Steel/Savage Coast setting also gave hints at how to convert some KW features into 2E, such as the OD&D avenger and druidic knight classes becoming variations on the fighter(defender) class-kit combo. The RS/SC material is less helpful however, since, though it's 2E, it doesn't overlap geographically with the OD&D material, so there's only a few instances where we can clearly see how OD&D was "supposed" to be converted to 2E. It would be really helpful if we could see the working notes of the TSR team that was preparing the never-released Mystara boxed set that you [Bruce] mentioned. I wonder if there's any chance in hell that that you could use your mysterious connections to find out if that information still exists, and if it could be collected and shared with you or us to provide us with an intermediate, almost canon, step between OD&D and 3E? ***OK, I'm back from dreamland ;-)*** Another thing we'll need to take into account when using the 2E Mystara materials to guide the 3E conversion, is that 3E is dropping the "kit" format -- which was the main format used in the description of 2E Mystara character types. The obvious solution would be to elevate the *substantial* Mystaran kits back to classes for 3E. When I say "substantial", I mean kits like the "philosopher" (=OD&D cleric) and the "defender" -- professions which are unique enough to stand on their own as 3E classes (and which probably *should've* been distinct Mystaran *classes* in 2E). "Unsubstantial" kits would be those that are really just little flavor packages, such as the "veteran" warrior kit, or the "city rogue" kit, both from K:KoA. The teeny-weeny special benefits and hinderances of these "unsubstantial" kits *should* be taken into account, and perhaps retained for describing the special characteristics of the 3E Mystaran core classes, but they aren't special enough to stand on their own as full 3E classes... "Ooh goody! I get the Endurance NWP as a bonus, I must choose one NWP from the "City Proficiencies Table", and I begin the game with a nonmagical set of armor and shield of AC5 or less!" [Says the fighter with the veteran kit, sarcastically.] I get the feeling that the 2E Mystara designers (RS/SC included) went a little overboard on the whole "kit" concept -- many of those "kits" (ie. the "substantial" ones) should've simply been described as new, Mystara-specific classes, while the unsubstantial ones are more appropriate as kits. I mean the *other* 2E settings got their very own selection of classes (in addition to a bunch of setting-specific kits as well) -- Forgotten Realms got the "mystic" [not the same as the OD&D mystic], "harper", and "spellfire wielder", and several others; Dragonlance got the "tinker", "wizard of high sorcery", "cleric of the holy order of stars", "solomnic knight", and "dragon knight", Dark Sun got the "gladiator", Birthright got the "magician", Ravenloft the "avenger" [not similar to the OD&D avenger], and Greyhawk got the "monk of the scarlet brotherhood" and the "assassin of the sb". I wonder why all of Mystara's interesting character types were described at the kit level? I think we'll need to rework the class system for 3E Mystara to make it more consistent. Finally, if we'd done a full 2E conversion of Mystara, which also fully took into account the "Complete Handbook" series and the "Option" series, we'd be more preprared for this 3E conversion...Oh well, it'll still work out in the end ;-). Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:03:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) - --- Patrick Sullivan wrote: > >a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook... > I remember reading several references such as "...if > the DM allows Psionics > in your campaign," and I think such references exist > in both the Red Steel > box and the SCMC (free download), as well as Orc's > Head. Unfortunately, i > don't have my Red Steel set here, so I can't post > the exact reference. I used WordPad's "find" function to search the SCMC for any word with "psio-" in it. Nothing came up, so unless there's some psionic creatures in there whose powers are only talked about in a roundabout way, I don't think there's any psionic references present in that product (if I missed them, please someone correct me though). Can anybody confirm that the RS boxed set does or doesn't talk about psionics, and if so, could they post or summarize that text? > There's no real explanation. While I do not own X2, > my understanding is > that there is a Brain Collector in that adventure. > In Mark of Amber, a mind > flayer is in the same place that the Brain Collector > was in X2. There might > be some brief statement that the mind flayer has > been sent by the same evil > powers that sent Halzunthram the now-Rakshasa (I ran > the adventure, and I'm > still not too clear on either of these monsters). > At any rate, it seems > that the Mind Flayer was stuck in there not as a > means of introducing > Psionics, but rather as the easiest 2nd Edition > substitute for a Brain > Collector. OK, even though I feel 2E Mystara has *some* claims to canonicity, this is perfect example of where I *would* ignore the heavyhanded 2E conversion, and stick to the original. The brain collector, though superficially similar to the mind flayer, is a very different creature (the BC walks on 6 crab-like legs vs. the bipedal illithid, for just one of several obvious examples), and should have its own separate monstrous compendium sheet. In this instance, I'd say that, in a 3E conversion of "Mark of Amber", the brain collector, not an illithid, should be in that room. > >c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus > I don't know what a kenku is nor where this > reference came from--and I've > seen almost all of the AD&D Mystara material. Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, kenkus are Oriental psionic bird-men. Like I said, I have no idea what Mystaran product they appeared in, but someone on the MMB mentioned that there are Mystaran kenkus. Can someone clarify this more? Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:54:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) - --- SteelAngel wrote: > > "only if psionics are allowed in your campaign". > > This is an Important Phrase. Mystara has NEVER had > mention > of Psionics before the AD&D2 conversion Can't argue with ya there...since OD&D didn't have psionic rules (yet?), and Mystara was bound to OD&D rules. > and I don't > consider ANY of the AD&D2 Mystara material as part > of canon. > Bruce's VotPA articles are the only canon mention of > the > Savage Coast (save for X9). > > IMHO, of course. Of course...and though we're all free to do what we wish in our own campaigns, *IMO* it would be a *bad* idea to completely ignore the 2E Mystara/Red Steel/Savage Coast material as you suggest. I do think that the 2E material needs to be reworked, streamlined, and fully integrated with the OD&D material, and also when there is a blatant disregard for an explicitly established OD&D-based piece of Mystara (eg. the switch from the brain collector to the illithid), then I would use the OD&D version as the default. However, though you are correct that OD&D never said there is psionics on Mystara, at the same time, it never said there *isn't*. Of course, there's lots of other stuff that OD&D didn't address (it never said there weren't drow on Mystara either), but the difference is that psionics *are* explicitly mentioned in the 2E Mystara products, so I feel that 3E psionics needs to be addressed. A similar deal would be the presence (or absence) or chronomancy and chronomancers on Mystara. Now...Mystara has NEVER had mention of chronomancy before the AD&D2 conversion. There is however, a fairly lengthy piece in the back of the Chronomancer accessory which tells how chronomancy works in 2E Mystara, and which is even expanded at the D&D Downloads page. Since OD&D Mystara never mentioned chronomancy, does that mean that the canon 3E Mystara conversion should forbid chronomancy, just like it's been suggested psionics? I think it'd be a shame to not allow the chronomancy and psionics rules to have *some* presence in Mystara, even if they are only "officially" listed as "optional". > > c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which > are > > psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. > > Much like just simply dropping any AD&D monster on > Mystara > without explaination, solving this problem should be > a > no-brainer. I'm not even sure if there *are* kenkus in a Mystara product, as I just picked up that possibility from a MMB post. But, if there *are*, then we could either take their presence as a case for Mystaran psionics (especially if the kenkus explicitly use their psi-powers in the module), or if we decide that, no matter what, there's not gonna be any of that high-falutin' psionics stuff in our canon 3E Mystara, then we can just say that Mystaran kenkus are different than other worlds' kenkus (our kenkus have no powers, or their powers aren't psionic-based, or something like that). Basically, I disagree with your implication that the Mystaran kenkus (again, assuming that they're present in some canon product) should simply be wished out of existence, when there are more creative, less drastic, ways of maintaining continuity. > I have a real problem with psionics in D&D. This is > the > major source of my ill-will towards the idea. > Personally, I > find them to be far overpowered, and just dumb in a > fantasy > setting, Psionics is a great tool when in _modern_ > games > where magic is not as widely known (i.e Heroes > Unlimited > games, or Rifts, or whatever) However, and again, > this is my > opinion, psionics have no place on Mystara. Then you'll be glad to know that, with Patrick's help, I think we've "shot down" the mind-flayer evidence for psionics. The jury's still out on the veracity of the supposed presence of kenkus in Mystara canon (anybody know which product kenkus are supposed to be in?). And, as I said (and you restressed), the detailed inclusion of psionics in the Orc's Head accessory could be interpreted either way, since the accessory explicitly states that psionics are optional. If everyone is totally opposed to psionics -- and are also opposed to my suggestion that 3E canon psionics be: a) explicitly optional AND b) even if psionics *are* accepted in one's personal campaign, that the canon conversion document state that Mystaran psionics are rarer than in other settings (and include rules-based support for this stance, such as a requirement that Mystaran wild talents have to have rolled successfully twice) -- then I'm not going to pout. I just want any alleged canon references to psionics to be thoroughly discussed, and dealt with one way or the other, rather than just be skipped over without comment. Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:52:46 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook (available free at WotC's site) includes rules for psionic characters. [Shane] Argh... Let me put it this way... :o) I consider OD&D Mystara as "canon" Mystara. 2E Mystara was an ill-fated attempt at converting it and it failed. Because OD&D Mystara was the original version and that there is far more of it out there for a longer period of time, I would tend to think that D&D is the prevailing source. When I created the Savage Coast cultures, I did not envision officially adding psionics. The fellow who did the development for AD&D, on the other, personally liked psionics and worked them into the SC. That was done against my advice. Ditto the Japanese feel of Bellayne rakastas -- he just personally like the idea of the Japanese rakasta and ignored the fact they already existed in Myoshima. He wanted them right there in Bellayne so he'd have a chance to play with them right away. Along with adding psionics, it's just an example of this guy's ego and unprofessional behavior run amok. (You can tell by now this is a touchy subject with me). I think psionics are right out of Mystara, or at least should remain merely an option for those DM's who'd have a brain seizure if they didn't have them! Psionics feel more like an SF feature than one belonging in a medieval-fantasy setting. Smokepowder technically belong in that category as well, except for two reasons. RW gunpowder was very much a reality in the late medieval age and smokepowder is an expensive alchemical/magical compound limited strictly to the SC, so it's less of a problem than psionics. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:52:42 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions > The pamphlets sound like a great idea! I have access to free color copies and I would be willing to donate that production ability to any effort to advertise the Mystara world. [Matt Wang] Thanks a bunch! I'm sure that'll come handy! Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:52:39 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Official WotC/Mystara Web Site) > Very interesting! Who would maintain this website? [Haavard] Until an official agreement is made between all involved parties, I don't think I should be the one to make the final, "official big announcement". I am not the person in charge of maintaining the site, provided I knew anything about site maintenance. It's a bit premature to ask about further specifics. All I can say in this respect is that it'll be in good hands. (Sorry!) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:52:48 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara -- Conversion Book, Conventions, 3E Deities... > One basic question Bruce: how are "we" (meaning the standard D&D guy with no access to 3Ed rules save a few scant info leeked from TSR chatrooms or NG) supposed to write or contribute to the creation of conversion rules from one system to another if we DON'T KNOW one of the two systems involved (namely 3Ed, which should still be a secret IIRC, known only to the playtesters and the creators)? [Marco] As I wrote earlier -- this could only be done under a non-disclosure agreement. What does this mean? Basically, a limited number of people would sign this agreement with WotC and receive both 3E rules and conversion mechanics to go over. I can't see a better way to do this. Once we have the OD&D conversion guidelines hashed out, I'm hoping that these be made available to the public (i.e. MML/MMB) so we begin work on the next few steps. > Uh, really? Should we be allowed to do such a scoop? I got the impression that we had to start producing the first things with 3Ed rules AFTER the 3Ed had been released... in fact, if we started before 3ed is published, then not everyone will be able to participate, since not everyone will have access to the 3Ed guidelines.. (me for example ;)) I bet this could be considered a bit annoying by many... Well, if you have the 3E conversion guidelines, there's a lot that can be done without necessarily owning the 3E rules per se. Furthermore, most of the info may be written in "stat-light" format anyway at least to alleviate that concern, especially in the interim until the 3E rules are widely available. If the guidelines are done well enough, then this should remain a minor problem. I hope this can be done before 3E rules are out. Failing this, at least we'll hit the ground running: by the time the 3E rules come out, it'll be crystal-clear to everyone what to do. It would be a waste of time to begin the discussion only then. > Sorry, I don't think I have understood this one properly: what do u mean with "our Immortal rules"? you mean the gold set and WotI? What other Immortal rules are there? :o) > However, since WotC won't be supporting a COMMON outer planar geography (the new Manual of the Planes will just tell DMs how to create their cosmology -with Planescape being only a POSSIBLE WAY of handling the issue), what could this mean in terms of Immortal Entities? Is there a possible connection between WotC's policy on generic setting in the outer planes and the possibility offered to players to play an outer planar creature? I mean, will this still be possible with 3Ed? If not, than the whole discussion about Immortals and Gods is pointless. Your question seems a bit convoluted -- I'm not sure I can answer it intelligently. What I think is that such discussion is never pointless, regardless of assumptions. Obviously, there will be deities in 3E and related rules -- therefore a discussion about involving Mystara-style Immortals makes sense. At any rate, better that we discuss this now and be ready to be involved if this becomes an option, than wait until the book is written and be sorry Mystaran Immortals were ignored once again. It seems to me a possible opportunity is better than none at all. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:01:10 -0400 (EDT) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Shane wrote: >I'd prefer that we simply say that psionic >beings are even rarer on Mystara than they are in >other settings. In other words, on Mystara, psionics >are *practically*, though not *absolutely*, >nonexistant (I'm not sure if this is a feature of just >the planet and moons of Mystara, or if it applies to >all of the planets and planes of Mystara's multiverse, >but I suppose, since there's not much canon material >on extraplanetary locales, then we don't need to worry >about this for the immediate future). This explanation >would retain the canonicity of the above psionic >references, while keeping Mystara a *virtually* >psionic-free planet. We could even say in the 3E >conversion rules (just as the designer of the Orc's >Head Peninsula implied) that due to its rarity on >Mystara, the psionicist is explicitly an *optional* >class, requiring DM permission (which is theoretically >true for *any* class, but we could particularly stress >this in regards to the psionicist). This is certainly one very workable way of approaching the problem. Alternatively (though perhaps less diplomatically), we could simply rule out the bulk of the 2E AD&D Mystara materials, since most people here seem to agree that at lot of important campaign details seem to have fallen through the cracks, or were changed for no apparent reason (ie: Bellayne changing from a decidely English setting to one that has a strong Japanese flavour). If this is untenable, then we could, as Shane suggested, rule that psionics are exceedingly *rare*. Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:56:48 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) I can understand why you have a problem with psionis as they are presented in the Complete Psionics handbook (and other AD&D rules), since they are as you say overpowered and unbalanced. Mmm, the telepathy rules are a bit OTT. When I introduced psionics I just invented a new saving throw (vs psionics), and then it worked fine. I've used psionics for four years game time in a Mystara setting, no problems. Just adds a bit more to the game. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:07:01 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) - ----->I used WordPad's "find" function to search the SCMC >for any word with "psio-" in it. Nothing came up, so >unless there's some psionic creatures in there whose >powers are only talked about in a roundabout way, I >don't think there's any psionic references present in >that product (if I missed them, please someone correct >me though). The psi aspects are not included in the electronic version available on the Internet. However, they are mentioned in the actual paperback Red Steel book, that comes in the boxed set. >Can anybody confirm that the RS boxed set does or >doesn't talk about psionics, and if so, could they >post or summarize that text? There are various notes in the bit on character kits ("this kit is suitable for a psionicist") stuff. The real crux of it is one paragraph in the character creation bit as well... and I quote... "The psionicist can be used in the Red Steel setting if the DM so desires. However, a psionicist cannot take the Inheritor kit and gain more than one Legacy. A character with a psionic wild talent does not gain an initial Legacy (in essence, the wild talent is the Legacy) but can take the Inheritor kit and gain extra Legacies". Aranea can be multiclassed mage/psionicists. Aranea, lupins, rakasta and tortles can all be single (or dual, I suppose) classed psionicists - at least, they have level limits listed for psionicists in the table. IMC psionics is a brand new phenomenon (at least, as the Psionicist class - I use monks for certain other settings, like Sind) which was triggered by the Red Curse. The aranea studied it, and it's starting to catch on in Herath somewhat, though it is still only known by a minority. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:21:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) - --- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > > This led me -to become more productive, as Bruce > says- to the first 3E > question: should dwarf wizards be allowed in 3E or > not? In my opinion, in > Mystara not. [Ezio] > > By "Mystara" you meant "Know World", right? Surely > there could be other sorts > of characters, races, and monsters in other > continents than Brun. All of the IC explanations that Ezio gave seem to be fine approaches to dealing with the new "wrong" race-class combos. However, this "problem" isn't just Mystara-specific -- I can assure you that our cousins on the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Dragonlance (etc.) mailing lists and message boards are trying to come up with ways to deal with the same IC explanations. I don't know when our Mystara 3E document will be finished in relation to the release of the 3E rulebooks and the FR Worldguide hardcover, but I'd be interested in seeing to what degree FR and GH (and other worlds) integrate these new options into their respective established continuities. Ideally, I'd hope that Mystara was no more, and no less, accepting of these new *extremely rare* race-class combos. At this point, I'm generally "for" the new options, as these options' existence are mostly there to provide for a set of balanced rules to describe "one-in-a-million"-type characters, such as the orphaned dwarf who was raised by a human wizard. Right now, I'm leaning toward allowing *all* of the race-class combos for use in 3E Mystara, but at the same time, making sure that existing characters and cultural *tendencies* are maintained pretty much as they are (eg. *most* Alfheim elves are fighter/wizards, etc.). Perhaps this could be done by having a chart for each Mystaran nation giving what percentage of the population (broken down by race and ethnic group) belongs to each class, or multiclass combination. The PCs, since they're heroes, wouldn't have to follow this chart (though they *could*, if they wanted their PC to follow the cultural norm in this regard), but the chart *would* give DMs an idea as to which classes NPCs of each nation would likely belong to, and would give Mystara-newbie DMs a useful shorthand example of how Mystara is unique. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #468 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 469 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwarves and elves] [MYSTARA] - 3E Psionics Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CDs Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish [MYSTARA] - update [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map Re: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:22:02 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 99-10-29 06:37:01 EDT, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: << Cubia Occidental is the largest isle in the Western Thanegioth Archipelago, settled by groups of Ispans that did not complete the journey to the Savage Coast; subsequently, many Yavi, Sindhi and Huleans settled in the region. Many of these islands are now occupied by Ispan pirates. The entire region is now known as the "Karakarine", named after the indigenous tribes of Humanoids that were discovered to occupy the isles. [BTW, James, if you're reading this, exactly which island is the "largest" in the Wrn. Thanegioths? With the maps I have, I'm having a hard time picking which is obviously the largest.] >> It is difficult to make out on thos large-scale maps from the Almanacs; you really need X6: Quagmire! to be able to tell. Cubia Occidental is the large island two hexes north and one hex northeast of the town of N'Goro on the AC 1011 map. Most of the other larger islands are inhabited by the Cubia Ispan peoples, though a number of the smaller isles are still held by the Karakara Orcs... though travelers from the Known World have difficulty determining which group of pirates is more savage and barbaric... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:39:14 +0200 From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie DM wrote: > Hi Pals! > > Thanx to Brad McMillan's URL I was able to do an extensive research on the > topic D&D movie, and these are the interesting parts I thought useful to > share with you: > > "Dave Arneson, the Co-creator of the Dungeons and Dragons game gave the > lecture on the history of role playing at GenCon this august. He also just > recently visited the set of the movie. His impression was that the movie > was going to be great. > ....... > If you're interested in the plot, then let me know... I am interested in the plot. could you sen me more informations? thanks IBON *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread - --- Mystaros@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-10-29 06:37:01 EDT, > shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > > [BTW, James, if > you're reading this, exactly > which > island is the "largest" in the Wrn. Thanegioths? > With the maps I have, I'm > having a hard time picking which is obviously the > largest.] >> > > It is difficult to make out on thos large-scale maps > from the Almanacs; you > really need X6: Quagmire! to be able to tell. Cubia > Occidental is the large > island two hexes north and one hex northeast of the > town of N'Goro on the AC > 1011 map. OK, I've got X6: "Quagmire!", but I don't see "N'Goro" on any of its maps (I don't own "Champions of Mystara" if that's where the map is you're referring to). Which island is Cubia Occidental on "DM Map 1: The Wild Lands" (p16-17) of X6? Thanks for your help. BTW, I really liked your "History of the Ispan People". Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:07:30 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? >Basically, having a single fish tail would be a rare and mostly undesirable mutation -- I suspect they would be able to breed at all given that they are not "normal" members of their respective species. But evolutionaly speaking, if there ever was a mutation like that, it will spread out very fast as it gives a tremendous advantage to swimming velocity. (compare a human scubadiver with a dolphin...) Also, someone mentioned that inorder to breed with humans (ala Zindryl) merrow would have to be two tailed. well Im not going to get into too graphic (and gruesome) details, but how the hack do merrows mate in the first place? (with each other). If they have hidden penis-like organs (like sharks and I think whales two) they woudnt have a problem "doing it" with humans, but an open system like most fish have can cause some problems... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:27:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) - --- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > Argh... Let me put it this way... :o) > > I consider OD&D Mystara as "canon" Mystara. 2E > Mystara was an ill-fated > attempt at converting it and it failed. > I think psionics are right out of Mystara, or at > least should remain merely > an option for those DM's who'd have a brain seizure > if they didn't have them! OK, OK, I cry "uncle!" ;oD. This well-explained-straight-from-the-mouth-of-the-Mystara-guru-behind-the-scenes look into the misdevelopment of Mystara is about the only thing that could've made me a total convert to the canonicity of a psionics ban on Mystara. Since I'm a real stickler for canon, you're one of the few people from whom I would accept an "overruling" of published material (even 2E material). I now firmly believe that canon 3E Mystara should explicitly exclude psionics, and that Mystara was never really meant to have psionics (and that Bellaynians don't speak Japanese ;-)). While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should pretty much be ignored all together in relation to canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some percentage of that material as canon. If you accept some of it, what sort of elements do you generally accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) Thanks. Shane __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:59:18 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > is that psionics can be used to represent > eastern type mysticism which could easily fit into various regions of > Mystara. Mysticism and Psionics are different though. Psionics is things like Pyrokenisis, and Telemechanics. Easter Mysticism is Chi healing, and shattering stone walls by vibrating hands. Mystic talents come about by fusing body and mind over YEARS of practice, not because you happened to be born with a gift. Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:13:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwarves and elves] - --- Ezio Pignatelli wrote: > my question is: > are the Treekeepers > the clerics of Ilsundal? Because if this is the > answer, we have to > convert what is basically a wizard into a cleric... > *gulp*. Or a druid. Nawww...I say simply keep all of the OD&D Treekeeper skills, convert the skills individually to 3E, maybe add a little more juicy detail, and "voila!" you've got a 3E Treekeeper class. 3E will include rules for creating new character classes -- there's no need IMO to try to stuff a unique class into any sort of preconceived mold. The same goes for the Hin Master class, and for any other OD&D class which won't have a close 3E equivalent. In regards to the Treekeepers being wizardly "clerics" of Ilsundal, the most up-to-date format for priests and their deities is the Faiths & Avatars series of the Forgotten Realms. In F&A, depending on their style, gods may have members of several different priest classes as their clergy, including clerics [proper], druids, specialty priests [with each deity having their own special priest class], monks [from Player's Option: Spells & Magic], shamans [from PO:S&M], crusaders [from PO:S&M], and mystics [a FR-specific class, not like the OD&D mystic really] -- and sometimes even non-priest classes can be clergy: a goddess of nature allows rangers as her clergy. I'm bringing this up since, if we decided to explicitly make Treekeepers "clergy" of Ilsundal, then that'd just mean that the Treekeeper class would be one of the accepted classes of Ilsundal's church -- there's no need to actually make the Treekeeper class more "cleric-like". While we're on the subject, I'd like to throw out question that anyone can feel free to respond to. What do you think the list of 3E Mystaran "priestly" classes should include? Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:14:55 +0200 From: Ezio Pignatelli Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Psionics Just dropping my 0.02$ here.... I hated the AD&D version of Mystara. But I don't agree in just dropping everything was done there as 'non-canon'. Becaseu someone could be crazy enought to like it. :-D But about psionic: 1) There are *no* OD&D or AD&D canon reference in the Known World. And given their peculiar nature, that is enough for me to say that they do not exist. 2) The only canon AD&D reference to psionic is in the Orc's Head supplement, and is esplicitely pointed as optional. Now, in making a 3E conversion, I think we should try to make it so that anyone could use the conversion with minimum effort, either coming from the side of Mystara or from 3E fan of other setting. Which would led me to the following conclusion: a) *If* WoTC is not going to make a psionic class, I would not add a new class for that. Just discard the optional rule in one supplement... is not that hard. b) if, AND WHEN, on the other hand, WoTC is going to do that, we can add an *optional* rule for psionic classes in Red Steel, and I will quote Rob for that, because I like his explanation: IMC psionics is a brand new phenomenon (at least, as the Psionicist class I use monks for certain other settings, like Sind) which was triggered by the Red Curse. The aranea studied it, and it's starting to catch on in Herath somewhat, though it is still only known by a minority. [Rob] This seems to me the minimum effort conversion for anyone... - -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html - -- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:03:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Sound CDs Though I'm...er...disappointed...with the Mystaran Audio CDs, I must admit I've found one element I'm fond of. I think that talking Nithian statue in K:KoA sounds really cool and creepy. The track is even bilingual in Common and Nithian! What more could you ask for? ;-) Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:30:46 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) >This is an Important Phrase. Mystara has NEVER had mention >of Psionics before the AD&D2. conversion and I don't >consider ANY of the AD&D2 Mystara material as part of canon. >Bruce's VotPA articles are the only canon mention of the >Savage Coast (save for X9). While I agree with your complaints about psionics, when we do the 3E conversion we certainly cannot discount the Savage Coast material available for free download. Not only is it in a more handy package than all the VotPA articles, it remains faithful to the spirit of the Dragon articles and is free. Psionics certainly isn't a major part of the SC stuff, but we must, nonetheless, avoid statements discounting any previous sources from TSR as non-canon on the 3E website. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:36:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: RE: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) - --- "Murphy, Jason" wrote: > Excuse my ignorance.... but is there any sort of > precedent for the Alignment > Language rules in fantasy literature and such. Or is > it simply a device that > the game designers thought would be groovy? I...um...think (very unsure though) that alignment languages had something to do with either Jack Vance's work (which was definitely the basis for the D&D fire-and-forget spell system) or the world of Elric of Melnibone, but these are only vague recollections of other peoples' theories. I'm hoping someone with a greater knowledge of fantasy fiction can give a more informed explanation. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Shane Henry Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) - --- Rob wrote: > "The psionicist can be used in the Red Steel setting > if the DM so desires. > However, a psionicist cannot take the Inheritor kit > and gain more than one > Legacy. A character with a psionic wild talent does > not gain an initial > Legacy (in essence, the wild talent is the Legacy) > but can take the > Inheritor kit and gain extra Legacies". > IMC psionics is a brand new phenomenon (at least, as > the Psionicist class - > I use monks for certain other settings, like Sind) > which was triggered by > the Red Curse. The aranea studied it, and it's > starting to catch on in > Herath somewhat, though it is still only known by a > minority. I almost posted this very idea (that psionics are simply limited to the areas of the Red Curse), but I shot it down in my own mind since the Orc's Head Peninsula -- which is explicitly psionic according to the OHP Sourcebook -- doesn't have a Legacy region (according to the map of Legacy regions in the SC Campaign Setting). Therefore, if psionics are tied to the Red Curse, I couldn't think of a reason how the inhabitants of that peninsula would be psionic if they don't have Legacies. Shane ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:31:50 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) >All of the IC explanations that Ezio gave seem to be >fine approaches to dealing with the new "wrong" >race-class combos. However, this "problem" isn't just i remember a fairly recent discussion either here or on the MMB describing what might happen if the Nucleus of the Spheres continued to suck power from Entropy, as per the end of WotI. Perhaps in the few years between WotI and G:KoM, the nucleus was taking from entropy and giving to energy, but it had slightly different effects than might otherwise be imagined. What if the day without magic is now permanent unless the nucleus is again recharged by immortal-eating or Old One fiat, but as energy gains new strength away from entropy (since we would assume that Rafiel goes full-steam ahead with his researches and more Glantrians find easier access to the Radiance, this might not take very long), new spells (2E & 3E spells) become more feasible, Dwarves (and perhaps a few other races) find the ability to learn magic, and montrous Wiccas can now use more spells. Eventually, perhaps, there will be another major stroke by some immortals of entropy, and perhaps Thought and Time, to reprogram the nucleus back to its original pattern of sucking from energy and giving to Entropy. Pretty soon, Energy immortals will do everything in their power to limit the drain on the Radiance for any purpose that is not of utmost importance. But, once it reaces a certain level of rad points, the week without magic will begin again, while the changes from the entropy-sucking period will remain (for now at least). I definitely agree with Shane's point that we should try to allow most of the new race-class combinations, particularly since it sounds like other settings are having to find ways to accept the new 3E rules. If we do our best to adapt Mystara to the new rules in most cases, we have a better chance of being better-supported by WotI and Dragon Magazine. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:48:07 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2214.3AFE5520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Guf Fish" is the name for a species of fish about 1 to 2 feet long = (though some rare=20 specimens have been seen as long as 5). It swims off the coast of = Gufetir (pronounced "guff=20 eater"), a town of the Kingdom of Greenspur, in the Empire of Alphatia. = Fishermen of this=20 town hope and pray to catch a Guf Fish or two during the year, as a = single fish can fetch=20 anywhere from d6 to 5d6 gold pieces! Quite a hefty sum for a single = fish. The meat of the Guf Fish tastes terrible. The fisherwives of Gufetir = mix it heavily with spices,=20 to cut down on the bitter taste. But it is not the meat that holds the = price. The Guf Fish's=20 scales are of pure gold. Research reveals nothing of the origins of the = Guf Fish. The natives=20 of the Alphatian continent, what few remain, tell fantastic tales of an = ancient hero, driven to=20 death by an unbeatable foe, who sacrificed himself to the sea rather = than give in. His eyes=20 "that saw all truth", became two golden fish. The Alphatians consider = this story=20 preposterous, and deny any possibility of common origin between the tale = and the fish. Such=20 a fish was undoubtedly the result of some magical experiment gone awry. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2214.3AFE5520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Guf Fish" is the name for a species of fish about 1 = to 2 feet=20 long (though some rare
specimens have been seen as long as 5).  = It=20 swims off the coast of Gufetir (pronounced "guff
eater"), a town of = the=20 Kingdom of Greenspur, in the Empire of Alphatia.  Fishermen of this =
town hope and pray to catch a Guf Fish or two during the year, as a = single=20 fish can fetch
anywhere from d6 to 5d6 gold pieces!  Quite a = hefty sum=20 for a single fish.
 
The meat of the Guf Fish tastes terrible.  The=20 fisherwives of Gufetir mix it heavily with spices,
to cut down on = the bitter=20 taste.  But it is not the meat that holds the price.  The Guf = Fish's=20
scales are of pure gold.  Research reveals nothing of the = origins of=20 the Guf Fish.  The natives
of the Alphatian continent, what few = remain,=20 tell fantastic tales of an ancient hero, driven to
death by an = unbeatable=20 foe, who sacrificed himself to the sea rather than give in.  His = eyes=20
"that saw all truth", became two golden fish.  The Alphatians = consider=20 this story
preposterous, and deny any possibility of common origin = between=20 the tale and the fish.  Such
a fish was undoubtedly the result = of some=20 magical experiment gone awry.
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BF2214.3AFE5520-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:10:26 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - update I just added a map of the isle of dawn to my site. I am also working on a Yavdlom map (24 miles per hex) i hope it would help the guy who is developping Yavdlom (Geoff i think). - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:11:06 +0200 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map the map is in the south section. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:57:07 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish This is good--i like it. I don't have DotE with me--is Gufetir really on the map? patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:54:23 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread >OK, I've got X6: "Quagmire!", but I don't see "N'Goro" >on any of its maps (I don't own "Champions of Mystara" >if that's where the map is you're referring to). Which >island is Cubia Occidental on "DM Map 1: The Wild >Lands" (p16-17) of X6? Thanks for your help. BTW, I >really liked your "History of the Ispan People". Well, I don't have the PWAs with me, but combining CoM and Quagmire! I believe that James is referring to the long island near the center of the Western Thanegioth. On DM map 1 in X6, it is the island whose norhtern coastline has the letters "ARPHIP" running along it--a spelling error I never noticed before ;) N'Goro is at the eastern point of Thanegia Island, so i came to the conclusion that it was this island by estimating what would be 2 hexes north and 1 NE on a 72-mile per hex map. On the CoM map, this island is referred to as Kupanua. While I haven't yet read the history of the Ispan People (which I probably ought to do), isn't Cubia a coastal city in Nithia or Dythestenia, Ylaruam? Why would this be Western Cubia? Or are they unrelated? Or am I just plain confused? :) patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:58:50 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore At Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:16:36 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote: >Here's a writeup for a possible origin for the Followers of the Claymore. >Note that if you don't like the Christian connections, they can easily be >removed from the origin, and it should still make for a very plausible >origin story. > >Followers of the Claymore > > On their original homeworld, the family McGregor was just one branch of >a larger clan (clan Gregor) in Scotland. Clan Gregor was notoriously >belligerent and warlike, and the family McGregor was even more renknowned >for harboring sorcerors and committing vile rites. The rumors of their >Satanic allegiances were offensive to their Christian neighbors. >As this stands, then, the Brothers of the Claymore were a strictly >Christian group, similar to the Teutonic Knights of the Real World (except >that they were an underground movement, not sanctioned in any way). The >current Followers of the Claymore is more of a non-denominational movement >(at least in the sense that the clerics of the order are from a variety of >different belief systems, mostly native to Mystara). Okay, I'm aiming right at the spoiler at the beginning: if you say they were Christian warriors in the introduction, then what should we think of Brother Simon's patron? And who granted him his spells once in Mystara?... this could be a little tricky, don't u think? Why didn't u simply establish McGregors on Laterre, which is something different than RW earth, it's a low fantasy earth (Dimension of Myth?)? DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #469 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 470 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1] [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 3] [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:06 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) This well-explained-straight-from-the-mouth-of-the-Mystara-guru-behind-the-scenes look into the misdevelopment of Mystara is about the only thing that could've made me a total convert to the canonicity of a psionics ban on Mystara. [Shane} LOL! I'm glad you see it this way! > Since I'm a real stickler for canon, you're one of the few people from whom I would accept an "overruling" of published material (even 2E material). I now firmly believe that canon 3E Mystara should explicitly exclude psionics, and that Mystara was never really meant to have psionics (and that Bellaynians don't speak Japanese ;-)). If anything, psionics are totally absent from the Known World and may be an option in the Savage Coast, at least to accomodate 2E players that have been running their SC campaign with psionics. In this case I think they should be limited to the SC. Another option would be to say that psionics are alien to this world -- they don't occur among native life and cannot be genetically passed along to progeny on Mystara. In other words, outer-planar or non-Mystaran space visitors might have them. > Do you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should pretty much be ignored all together in relation to canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some percentage of that material as canon. I think I would accept historical and/or factual data about the setting, but not changes made that had anything to do with 2E rules. It would be otherwise too hard to back-pedal and rewrite historical data that's already published. It's not an easy subject, that's for sure. > What do you think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to Mystara's multiverse? No connection with Spelljammer; it belongs to another dimension and so is irrelevant to Mystara. Perhaps some links with Planescape -- these are DM options I would think. > I know your "3E Mystara Summary" says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors of Heaven" book contradict this? It does. I don't have "warriors of heaven" so I can't really comment on this. Since "WoH" isn't kosher with 3E, and since I generally do not consider 2E as "canon", the point is moot, IMO. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:03 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (dwarven mages) > Ideally, I'd hope that Mystara was no more, and no less, accepting of these new *extremely rare* race-class combos. [Shane] Well put. I hope people will show some tolerance here so as not to build too many restrictions in Mystara 3E. > Right now, I'm leaning toward allowing *all* of the race-class combos for use in 3E Mystara, but at the same time, making sure that existing characters and cultural *tendencies* are maintained pretty much as they are That's where I'm going too. NPCs remain largely faithful to the original setting, else PCs are considered oddities or strangers from outside the Known World. This should relax the restrictions enough that new players won't feel their options are unduly limited. The rest is really the realm of any DM anyway. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:10 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > The brain collector, though superficially similar to the mind flayer, is a very different creature (the BC walks on 6 crab-like legs vs. the bipedal illithid, for just one of several obvious examples), and should have its own separate monstrous compendium sheet. [Shane] Agreed. That one sounds really silly. > Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, kenkus are Oriental psionic bird-men. Like I said, I have no idea what Mystaran product they appeared in, but someone on the MMB mentioned that there are Mystaran kenkus. Can someone clarify this more? I don't recall any kenkus being used in Mystara. Must have been an off-hand comment (???). Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:22 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? > It would be really helpful if we could see the working notes of the TSR team that was preparing the never-released Mystara boxed set that you [Bruce] mentioned. [Shane] I have no idea where this may be, especially following TSR's move to Seattle. (I don't have it if that's what you were hoping for). > I wonder if there's any chance in hell that that you could use your mysterious connections to find out if that information still exists, and if it could be collected and shared with you or us to provide us with an intermediate, almost canon, step between OD&D and 3E? (Mysterious connections???) I'll check on that... > Mystaran kits back to classes for 3E. When I say "substantial", I mean kits like the "philosopher" (=OD&D cleric) and the "defender" -- professions which are unique enough to stand on their own as 3E classes. Any others? > I get the feeling that the 2E Mystara designers (RS/SC included) went a little overboard on the whole "kit" concept -- many of those "kits" (ie. the "substantial" ones) should've simply been described as new, Mystara-specific classes I agree entirely with you here. On the other hand, were they all warranted and useful? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:33 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1] Here, I think that's what I was looking for... much of this is no longer current. :o) - --------------- REFERENCE GUIDE June 1991 What is the D&D® Game? 2 The Known World 5 Heroes and Villains 15 The Future of the Known World 20 World Events and Timeline 22 The D&D® Game Now & Tomorrow 30 The prophet poured himself a cup of the black beverage. "Fate, you see, is the result of Immortal will. And who would I be to meddle with the wishes of Immortals? I was indeed blessed with the power of true sight, but it is wise not to use it inconsiderately. Would you want to incur the Wrath of the Immortals? My own destiny is already written in the Annals of Yav, and so is yours, Haldemar. Our fate was to meet. Here or in Jaibul, what difference does this make? You did come. And you did safely return me here, didn't you?" He knew it all, from the beginning. Although I admired the Great Prophet's style, I could neither share his incredible fatalism nor his blind respect for the Immortals. I am a gambler. If I can't win, I make it so that I don't lose either. I make my own destiny — and to heck with what Immortals think! With a power like his, I could do amazing things. The prophet chuckled softly, "Tsk, tsk. Such amusing thoughts! You'll learn, however, at your own time and place. But until then, please listen to my advice and heed your vision. Great powers are growing in the dark and you, my friend, have a place in their future. As you so eloquently pondered, you will indeed weave your own destiny. But then, you've yet to discover it." So what is the D&D® Game? Imagine that you and your friends are the heroes of a fantastic and magical world. You make it your business to battle terrible monsters, explore their ancient dungeons, and recover the lost treasures of forgotten kings. The DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® Game is a role- playing game set in this kind of world. In the game you pretend to be a character. You might be a proud warrior, a shrewd wizard, a nimble elf, or a boisterous dwarf. You use the rules to play out a story. Along the way, you can earn fame, treasure, and power for your character. You and your friends work together against common foes instead of against each other. But who wins the game then? You win or lose as a team. Each game session challenges you and your friends to finish a tough task. It might be chasing an evil wizard out of town, overpowering a fierce dragon, or escaping a deep, dark dungeon. If you and your friends complete the task, you all win! Game after game, if your characters survive, they acquire experience which makes them tougher, better at combat, or gives them more spells. An arbitrator runs the game. He or she is the Dungeon Master, a cross between a referee and a story- teller. He interprets the game rules and plays the roles of all the other people — and monsters — the players' characters meet during the game. The Dungeon Master never takes sides. He makes sure that all the players are treated fairly and enjoy themselves. The D&D® game is not a single product. It consists of a set of rules and commercial adventure booklets that the Dungeon Master uses to create the game and entertain the players. There are many adventures available today, as well as accessories expanding various aspects of the game. What you will find the in D&D Game line is explained a bit later. About this Reference Guide Hopefully by now, you should have a general idea what role-playing is about! This reference guide explains how the product line is structured, what basic types of products exist in a role-playing game and their function, and what it is that makes up the world of D&D. This guide will take you on journey into the Known World where you will discover fascinating kingdoms and empires. Their more savory and unsavory critters are described next, along with their ties with the imminent Great War. A timeline gives you a feel for what has been happening in the Known World, as well as what is to come next. Our products are designed to fit this historical background. Finally, a more complete tour showing which major products are available so far and those to yet come, will help you find your way around the D&D Game. Product Structure The D&D® Game breaks into two main blocks: — The Entry Level Game — The Champion Level Game The Entry Level Game includes all those products connected to the D&D® boxed set. It deals with the task of teaching new gamers the basics of role-playing. The material in that category is very simple, quick to play, easy to understand, and non-world specific. It is also intentionally limited to the first five levels of game play. This product line is described separately, in the DUNGEON & DRAGONS® Entry Level Game Reference Guide. The Champion Level Game is what this Reference Guide is all about. The Champion category involves the products connected with the D&D® Game Cyclopedia. This version of the game includes all the rules taught by the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® boxed set, as well as all the material needed to play the complete D&D Game. The products in this category are designed for a specific game world, either the Known World or the Hollow World. The next chapter of this Reference Guide details these two game settings (also called campaign settings). Product Categories Champion Level products are designed to fit either the Known World or the Hollow World. They form the two main sublines in the D&D® Game. Each subline breaks down into a number of different product types. The two most obvious are the adventure modules and the game accessories. Modules: These are adventures, usually booklets, that a Dungeon Master can use to run a game. They explain who the major players' friends and foes are and describe areas where the players' characters can have adventures. They are called modules because they can often be played separately. Accessories: (also called supplements) This is a very broad category of products that develop a particular aspect of the game. Although very popular, accessories are optional to the game. Accessories describe fantasy kingdoms where adventures can take place, provide extra game rules, 3D cardboard foldups to create dioramas, new monsters to throw at the players' characters, new equipment or spells, etc. Accessories come in a variety of packaging (booklets, boxed sets, folders, etc). There are many other types of products that can relate to role-playing games, such as novels, computer games, comic books, toy miniatures, etc. Modules and accessories in the D&D® Game, regardless of the game setting, revolve around the use of D&D® Game Cyclopedia — a single book providing all the rules on characters, monsters, spells, and treasures, as well as a general description of the D&D Game settings. Most modules and accessories are written for one game setting or another, such as: — The Known World: All of the older D&D Game Products (prior to 1990) are set in the Known World. They include all of the B, X, CM, M, and DDa adventure modules. Also in this game line belong the Gazetteers and the Creature Crucibles. The Gazetteers are important in that they describe each nation of the Known World, their geography, history, culture and secrets. The Creature Crucibles develop the unusual use of various monsters as player characters in the Known World. — The Hollow World: It was created in 1990. So far, this product line includes a boxed set describing the Hollow World and a trilogy of adventure modules introducing this new game setting. Coming soon is a series of accessories similar in style to the Known World's Gazetteers, describing the lands of the Hollow World in greater detail. All the information you'll need on this setting comes separately in the Hollow World Reference Guide. — And then some! There are a few products that are non world-specific, such as Player Character Sheets and the Dungeon Master Screen. These can be used with any of the game settings. What about the AD&D® Game? Advanced Dungeons & Dragons® 2nd Edition Game is a different product line. It is designed for the ultimate hobby player. The goal of the D&D Game, in general, is to bring new players into the role-playing field (with the Entry Level line) and then offer them a game system that is relatively simple as far as role- playing games generally go, yet complete enough to really get the feel of a full-fledged role-playing game — all this in a single, neat package. That's what the Champion Level line does. The goal of the D&D Game is to give a customer a general idea on how to play, without developing a long list of very specific rules to remember. The D&D Game is addressed to both younger players who prefer a "faster, looser" system, and also to more mature players who no longer feel the need for ultra-complete and complex rules to have fun! Finally, the D&D Game Cyclopedia explains to potential AD&D Game players the differences between the two games, and how to convert from one to the other. The big strength of the AD&D® Game relies in the fact it has virtually a rule for everything! Many other players enjoy this type of gaming, which requires great experience and skill. The AD&D Game is a huge and popular product line that offers gamers many gaming options, world alternatives, and fascinating detail on many topics. The AD&D Game compares with the D&D Game like big league hardball would with softball in many respects. Yet, softball has its own merits, and so does D&D. [END OF PART 1] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:27 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) >> is that psionics can be used to represent >> eastern type mysticism which could easily fit into various regions of >> Mystara. > Mysticism and Psionics are different though. Psionics is things like Pyrokenisis, and Telemechanics. [SteelAngel] BTW, the Monk has been included in the 3E rules. It looks very decent and could be used as the Mystic's closest equivalent in 3E Mystara. It isn't identical to the OD&D Mystic, but the description is exciting enough players probably won't lose much sleep over the translation. I won't otherwise belabor the point about psionics since you already know my views on this (Mysticism: Yes! Cynicism, No!) :o) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:41 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 3] The Ethengar Khanates The Golden Hordes of the Steppes These are northern steppes: Broad, flat, windswept grasslands where nomadic riders rule. Moglai, the Golden Khan, is the ruler of a confederacy of khanates. A mighty fighter, widely traveled and very intelligent, he lets his friendly manner and cheerful demeanor conceal his shrewd mind and cunning heart. His goal is to hold the scattered and contentious khanates together in a single, powerful horde. Ethengarians are steppes riders very similar to our Mongols. Oriental in coloration, clothing, and manner, they are a spiritual people, seeking (and receiving) guidance and power from the spirit world. They are very warlike, and when they choose to stay organized they are a great danger to nations all around them. Ref.: GAZ 12 — The Golden Khan of Ethengar The Caverns of the Shadow Elves The Underground Elven Kingdom These are enormous series of caverns deep, deep in the earth beneath the Broken Lands. Grey and cheerless, they are home to a sub-species of elf known as the Shadow Elves. Long ago, descendants of elvish survivors of the disaster which created the Broken Lands fell under the sway of the evil Immortal Atzanteotl. He bade them build an underground city to his glory, and showed them how to do so. But when it was done, he sealed it off from the rest of the world with a lava flow (see "The Broken Lands," above). The survivors of this disaster descended into the earth, finding deeper and deeper series of caverns to shelter them. Ultimately they fell under the protection of a more kindly Immortal by the name of Rafiel, who showed them how better to survive their environment. The shadow elves are very pale and frail; outer-world elves are comparatively robust. Their society is very community-oriented and very insular; they fear and distrust representatives of outside races. The Shadow Elves know ways that lead just about anywhere to the surface of the Known World, including to the deep elven forests of Alphatia, and also as far downward as the Hollow World. Ref.: GAZ 13 — The Shadow Elves The Atruaghin Clans The People of the Totem This is a nation inspired by the Amerindians. They live atop a giant plateau, southwest of Darokin. There are many different tribes with colorful names such as the Children of the Bear, or the Children of the Tiger. These free-spirited people follow the way shown by their natural leaders, the shamani, and respect the magical totems that represent spirits of nature. These reclusive people remain isolated from the Known World, except for a few who trade with Darokin. To the south grows a deep, dark forest that is magical. There, hidden in old ruins exists a powerful artifact, Atruaghin's Mystical Conveyor. It is a magical elevator that links the Hollow World to the Known World. Beware, it is guarded by a fearsome people! Ref.: GAZ 14 — The Atruaghin Clans The Heldannic Knights The Iron Fist This powerful order of knights is located in the Heldann Freeholds. Before the knights' arrival, Heldanner were essentially farmers and fishers who migrated from Vestland — very similar in style to our Icelanders. The knights were pariahs expelled from Thyatis, brutal and cruel warriors who eventually conquered the Heldann Freeholds and established their theocracy: the Heldannic Order. Unpublished — Due out 1993 There is far more to the Known World than this atlas reveals. The World of Mystara also has two moons: Matera and Patera. Matera's celestial pattern is similar to our Earth's moon. The second moon, Patera, is invisible. Mystara also is hollow! The inside of the planet hides new continents and mysteries that perhaps only a handful of people in the Known World have ever heard of. This fantastic setting is fully described in the Hollow World Reference Guide. A planetary map and a complete historical timeline for the Known World exist in the Hollow World boxed set. Heroes & Villains Player characters, their friends and their foes, are what brings life to the role-playing game. They allow interaction between players and the Dungeon Master. Characters have the same basic motivations of true people — the quest for a better life, wealth, power, curiosity, or simply excitement! The players bring their characters to life by impersonating them during the adventures. The Dungeon Master does the same for all other creatures in the game, be they friend or foe. Their personalities are the key color component of all role-playing games. What makes the greatest difference between the D&D Game and other games is that D&D Game characters can become immortal, like mythological heroes. The Immortals, as they are called, are nearly invincible beings that mortals sometimes adopt as spiritual patrons. For many powerful characters (including those run by the players), attaining immortality can become the ultimate goal, and the source of endless adventures and fantastic quests! Here are just a few of the more important personalities of the Known World, and their goals. Amanth The Evil Red Dragon She is an incredibly old red dragon, and almost blind. Amanth uses magic, smell, and cunning to remain ahead of the pack. She is very cautious and will avoid confrontations she is not sure to win. Pride and jealousy are her flaws. Amanth has but a few decades to live before she dies of old age. She has been seeking a powerful artifact, the Ivory Plume of Maat, from Azem (see Azem later) to complete a last attempt at becoming an Immortal herself. Amanth does not know where Azem hides the coveted relic. She is contemplating the idea of making a pact with the evil Synn if her next attempt at immortality fails (see Synn later). Amanth and her draconic followers would seek to destroy The Master should he succeed in weakening the Empire of Thyatis, in exchange for which Synn would reveal to her the location of the ivory plume (see The Master in a later entry). d'Ambreville An Immortal in Disguise Etienne d'Ambreville is one of the Wizard Princes of Glantri. To most people, Etienne appears to be a very old man with tremendous magical skill. He also heads the Great School of Magic in Glantri City. In truth he is an Immortal who took fancy of mortals and their efforts to tame their world. He is under the opinion that one day magic should vanish from Mystara. The true tool of mortals should be science and technology — not magic which is the stuff of Immortals. To that effect he created the secret Brotherhood of the Radiance: wizards that gain great power at the expense of magical energy available on Mystara. This would eventually drain Mystara forever of its magic and all life that is related to it, like elves and dragons for example. Although he is a good entity, Etienne's support of the Brotherhood of the Radiance may eventually bring his downfall and that of Glantri as a whole. The rare wizards aware of this danger, especially those in Alphatia and their Immortal Patrons disagree with Etienne. The current year of AC 1000 has become the dawn of a Great War like the Known World never has seen before. Whatever the outcome, it will forever change its face. (See next chapter about The Future of the Known World). Anaxibius The Famous Gladiator Once a famous adventurer, Anaxibius became a celebrity in the Arenas of Thyatis. His sword and his might bought him respect and a rich estate on Emperor's Hill, near the Imperial Palace. This very popular figure begun an affaire d'amour with Emperor Thincol's daughter Stephania. Azem The Gentle Dragon Azem is a powerful gold dragon. Her lair, no more than a halfling cottage, hides in the village of Wereskalot, in the Five Shires. Azem appears to be a very common-looking, little old halfling lady. This very sweet, unassuming creature loves growing flowers in her garden. No one knows of Azem's true identity. She keeps the Ivory Plume of Maat in her lair, an artifact the red dragon Amanth covets (see earlier entry on Amanth). Azem is a secret protector of the Five Shires and of all that is good in the Known World. She would certainly oppose the dark plans of The Master and even more so, those of Synn. Azem nurtures a particular distaste for Bargle who long preyed on halfling folk near the border (see Bargle, The Master, Synn). Bargle A Wizard Foe Also called "the Infamous", this wizard is Baron von Hendriks' companion (see Von Hendriks later). Not necessarily loyal to his liege nor tremendously skilled as a sorcerer, he is a good foe to use against player characters of average experience. In his earlier life, Bargle killed a number of wizards to steal their spells, including a few Glantrian and Alphatian citizens. He is wanted in those two realms, under various pseudonyms. Bargle is likely to strike some sort of deal with either envoys of The Master or Synn (see The Master, Synn later) to further his own interests — with or without the Baron. Bargle would definitely cause the end of Karameikos and of his Grand Duchy if given the opportunity. Eriadna The Empress of Alphatia She rules over the Great Empire of Alphatia and its Council of a Thousand Wizards. Eriadna was the one who removed the last in a long dynasty of incompetent, decadent emperors. She has returned Alphatia to a greater might in the Known World. In the forty years since, she has ruled well, despite her western rival, the Empire of Thyatis. She is Thyatian Emperor Thincol's opposite number in practically every respect (see Thincol later). Eriadna prefers diplomatic treachery at a distance to head-on clashes whenever possible. She is not ordinarily accessible to novice player characters. High level clerics or wizards, such as Haldemar of Haaken, might easily become regulars at her court (see Haldemar later). Eriadna recently discovered the existence of the Brotherhood of the Radiance (see d'Ambreville earlier) and diplomatic tension has grown between Alphatia and the Principalities of Glantri. Haldemar Captain of the Princess Ark Lord Haldemar of Haaken is a noble wizard from the Alphatian Court. He is the hero of a long series of adventures currently published in the DRAGON® MAGAZINE. Haldemar commands the Princess Ark, a fantastic flying ship that harbors the soul of a powerful creature, Berylith. Although made of wood and cloth, the ship is actually a thinking, living creature. Haldemar explores Mystara for the benefit of Her Imperial Majesty, Eriadna the Wise (see Eriadna above). He and his crew have had many adventures during their discovery of Davania and Brun. Their journey took them into space, the Hollow World, and then to the land of The Master (see The Master later). There, he discovered a Great War about to break out, and d'Ambreville's involvement (see d'Ambreville earlier). He suspects it might lead to the destruction of Alphatia and its wizards. Haldemar hopes to prevent the war, or at least further the interest of wizardry and his liege, Empress Eriadna of Alphatia. Karameikos Grand Duke and Model Lord Duke Stephan Karameikos III once was a Thyatian noble. He sold his ancestral property to the Emperor in exchange for which he was given sovereign control of the wildlands that are now the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The Duke is allied with Thyatis. Stephan is a peaceful man whose only weakness is his inability to understand and deal with raw evil — like his cousin Ludwig (see Von Hendriks later). Duke Stephan is a character many players are familiar with since he rules the game area most beginning players usually start from. He is some sort of fabulous creature the player characters only hear of but never meet. At a more experienced level, the characters could meet him at the court, and perhaps undertake special missions for him, stumbling on plots to harm the Grand Duke. The Grand Duchy of Karameikos is one of The Master's targets (see next entry). The Master The Waiting Threat Also known as Hosadus, he is a dark, evil figure ruling the Great Hule, a remote, western realm whose goal is to carve itself an empire out of the Known World. The Master is aware of the tension between Glantri and Alphatia (see Eriadna, Synn, Wulf) and hopes it will drag Thyatis away into a colonial war on the Isle of Dawn. Once Thyatian Legions overseas, The Master would then launch his fiendish armies, unopposed, into Thyatis' backyard. His goal is to capture Sind, The Five Shires, Darokin, and Karameikos. His greatest enemy so far remains Haldemar (see Haldemar) who thwarted The Master's attempts to assassinate him and to destroy his skyship. Synn The Evil in the Dark She is a powerful creature of the shadows, an undead dragon who masters the art of treachery and deceit. She often takes the shape of a young women, either human or elven. She is privy to information normally limited to her Immortal Patron. Upon her discovery of the Brotherhood of the Radiance (see d'Ambreville earlier), she subtly communicated information to The Master (see The Master above), and then set him up to seek a possible alliance with the Heldannic Order (see Wulf later). Her goal is to cause the downfall of Alphatia and Glantri, for which her Immortal Patron would establish an evil realm in the place of Glantri for Synn to rule, and ravage the remains of the Known World. Synn presently is Haldemar's archenemy (see Haldemar earlier), for she knows of a prophesy placing Haldemar at the heart of the Glantrian intrigue. Thincol Emperor of Thyatis Thincol was once an adventurer from Norwold who sought fame and fortune. He became the greatest gladiators in Thyatis. In the course of a war against Alphatia, he was propelled up to the Imperial Throne of Thyatis after leading his gladiator friends into a desperate battle that threw the invader out. Since then, Thincol I Torion, became one of the best military commanders in the Known World. This hard, ruthless, uncompromising man is the archetype of the mighty warrior and a great hero. Thincol is the old rival of Empress Eriadna of Alphatia. Their greatest challenge remains in the control of colonies on the large Isle of Dawn that marks the longest border between the two empires. Peace so far has remained a fragile thing. Thincol sees the growing tension between Alphatia and the Principalities of Glantri (see d'Ambreville, Eriadna above) as an opportunity to acquire loose colonies at Alphatia's expense. Although still neutral, Thincol may side with Glantri. Von Hendriks A Treacherous Noble Also known as the Black Eagle Baron, he is related to Duke Stephan Karameikos (see Karameikos). He grew up in the shadow of his great cousin and has hated him all along. This villain, with the help of his sidekick (see Bargle earlier), plots the downfall of the Grand Duke in order to gain the throne of Karameikos. The Baron sympathizes with the Heldannic Order (see Wulf below), upon which he relies for help should things turn sour in his barony. Wulf Lord of the Heldannic Knights Also known as Herr Rolf in the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar earlier), he now heads the Heldannic Order, a brutal brotherhood of knights. Haldemar was directly involved in Wulf's death, for which Haldemar was never absolved. Synn's Immortal Patron (see Synn earlier) later returned Wulf to life, in order to succeed the dying Heldannic High Priest (and become Synn's puppet). So far, the Heldannic Order is an ally of Thyatis, although Wulf infiltrated the Thyatian Storm Soldiers' fellowship, just in case... Wulf keeps secret ties with the Black Baron (see Von Hendriks) who provides Heldannic ships with a safe heaven on the Sea of Dread. Wulf has vowed Haldemar's death, and that of all Alphatians. The Heldannic Order is an imperialist force that desires nothing but glory and conquest in the name of their Immortal Patron. Unfortunately, most of the land in the vicinity was either claimed by Thyatis, or lies in the empire's backyard. The Heldannic Order has been contacted by envoys of The Master for a potential alliance (see The Master earlier). [END OF PART 3] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:55 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4] The Future of the Known World (ha,ha... almost comical) The Known World has seen a number of savage wars and migrations, but one of its biggest upheavals is yet to come. The two largest empires, Thyatis and Alphatia, are on the eve of another major clash over the fate of a magical artifact in the Principalities of Glantri. This conflict and the background of events that will affect the Known World during the next ten game years will be the focus of 1992, in the accessory Wrath of the Immortals. Many Champion Level products not directly related to the Great War will be affected in some fashion. Imagine an adventure in ancient Greece during the war against Troy. Although the adventure is separate from the conflict, the war still goes on and sets a distinct atmosphere. The Origins of the Great War: The Immortals are the ones who ultimately provoke the Great War. It starts with a quarrel between them that soon spreads to their mortal followers in the Known World. Immortals are divided among Spheres of Power representing their main areas of influence and power, and also determining their opinion toward the Glantrian artifact. There are five spiritual spheres: Thought, Time, Matter, Energy, and Entropy (the forces of darkness) with diverging interests. Phase I — The Prelude Immortals of the Sphere of Energy discovered that the powers the Glantrian artifact provides to wizards drains magical energy to the point where magic's very existence on Mystara may be threatened. These Immortals decide to intervene and conspire to destroy the artifact. Their scheme would break an age-old pact with the other Spheres that forbade any direct involvement with the affairs of mortals. This causes a catastrophic schism in the Immortals' pantheon. The spiritual patron of the Glantrian wizards, Etienne d'Ambreville (see d'Ambreville in the previous Chapter) adamantly opposes the artifact's destruction. It is his conviction that the time of magic has passed on Mystara and that it should yield before true science and technology. Magic should be reserved to Immortals only. For this reason he opposes the artifact's destruction. His opponents form the Ring of Fire, a loose alliance set against d'Ambreville and the artifact. In response, d'Ambreville establishes the Fellowship of the Star, an alliance with several other Immortals opposed to direct intervention among mortals. The two factions run into a stalemate. They cannot defeat each other and decide to fight the conflict down at mortal level. Phase II — The Build-Up The Immortals start building up their forces, trying to increase the number of their followers — the more followers, the more power to the Immortals and their causes. This leads to a fierce race for magical power. One after another, states, kingdoms, and empires fall under the control of an Immortal. Adventurers are sent on quests benefitting one faction of Immortals over another. Immortals of the fifth sphere (Entropy) so far remained quiet. They secretly and systematically help weaker factions. Their plan is to ensure no faction gets a cheap victory, since Entropy feed upon misery and destruction. These Immortals are known as the Brotherhood of the Shadow. Phase III — The Great War Immortals assembled large forces of mortal followers. Raids and local wars break out. Soon the conflict degenerates into massive campaign wars (Alphatia clashes with Thyatis, the Orcs of Thar invade Darokin, the Shadow Elves seize Alfheim, and Ethengar plunders the Northern Realms, etc). The Brotherhood of the Shadow causes conflicts to be as devastating as possible according to their plan, and quietly keeps switching sides. The Brotherhood of the Shadow becomes the leading faction. Phase IV — The Aftermath At the end however, the Brotherhood of the Shadow openly sides with d'Ambreville and his allies, hoping to ruin an all out attempt from the Ring of Fire to destroy the artifact. The Ring of Fire rallies the Thousand Archmages of Alphatia and throws them against Glantri. Their bold move succeeds and the artifact is neutralized. Although not destroyed, the artifact no longer drains magical power from Mystara. Instead, it feeds upon the evil powers of Entropy's grimmer fiends, vampires, liches, and other servitors of darkness, greatly weakening the Immortals of Entropy in the process. With fear, they now sense their possible doom in centuries to come. Alas, the cost of the battle remains very dear to many. The Alphatian archmages are destroyed in their assault of Glantri. They were the source of an arcane power upon which Alphatia was built, and their demise causes the destruction of the arcane empire. With horror, the wizards see Alphatia's mainland sink into the cold Sea of Dawn. Unbeknownst to mortals in the Known World, the Wizard Empire becomes a floating continent in the Hollow World, while its remaining colonies fall under Thyatian occupation. Etienne's Immortal soul is trapped in the artifact and corrupted. He becomes a minion of the Sphere of Entropy, along with all his followers in the Brotherhood of the Radiance. Glantri is ravaged by the war, becomes a pawn of darkness, and sinks into a dark age. Glantri and the Orcs of Thar become the new threat against mighty Thyatis. In the mean time, the face of the Known World has forever changed. Phase V — (The Secret Phase No One Knows about) The twin brother of d'Ambreville, under the guise of a wizard's janitor, pulls the plug on TSR and all the lights go out. (Just checking to see if you are really reading all this stuff -- BH.) World Events The Known World uses a common chronology, based on the year the first Thyatian emperor was crowned. Today, all adventures in the Known World take place in AC 1,000 (AC — After Crowning) All current products are written for that year. Alphatians use a different chronology. For them, the current year is AY 2,000 (that is 2,000 years after the arrival of the first Alphatian in the Known World). The timeline given here presents some past and future background related to Wrath of the Immortals and Haldemar (the Captain of the Princess Ark). Both backgrounds have to do with the Great War and the future of the Known World. A much more detailed timeline on the history of the nations and the peoples of the Known World is provided in the Hollow World boxed set (see also Hollow World Reference Guide). Historical Timeline BC 2800? The adventurer Vanya attains Immortality in the southern continent after defeating a monstrous red dragon. Her mortal body remains in a vault, a site that is taboo for local tribesmen. AC 775 A 23 year-old Hattian adventurer, Gustav Grunturm, discovers ancient scriptures on Vanya's history. Gustav leaves on a life-long journey across the world in search of Vanya's treasures. AC 805 Gustav discovers Vanya's vault and sacred scriptures telling of Vanya's saga. Gustav is 53. AC 810 Gustav returns to Hattias, and starts a new temple. Minrothad merchants provide initial funds. AC 823 Gustav incites Hattians to overthrow Emperor Gabrionus IV and conquer Thyatis. AC 825 Thyatian troops burn down the original temple, killing 73 year-old Gustav and destroying his original maps and books. Followers of Vanya are branded as heretics and flee to more tolerant Heldann Freeholds. The Immortal Ixion begins to build up followers among mortals. AC 833 Etienne d'Ambreville attains Immortality in Glantri. Eccentric Glantrian wizards vote themselves Wizard Princes. AC 845 The Power of the Radiance is discovered in Glantri. Construction of the Great School of Magic begins above the source of the Radiance. AC 875 Construction of the Great School of Magic is completed in Glantri. The Power of Radiance is first used. AC 885 The Temple of Vanya's power grows among the Heldann Freeholds. Dissensions among the clans and the followers of Vanya causes wars. AC 888 The Brotherhood of the Radiance is founded in Glantri. Minor magic drain begins in the Sphere of Energy. AC 912 The Temple of Vanya creates the Order of the Heldannic Knights. Hattian mercenaries are recruited and shipped north to the Heldann Freeholds. Holger von Kaltstein joins up at age 18. AC 919 The Heldannic Knights defeat the Ethengarian invaders under Toktai Khan, and annex several areas of the Heldann Freeholds. Fortifications begin around the town of Freiburg, siege of the Great Temple of Vanya. AC 926 The Heldannic Knights kill Toktai Khan at the Battle of Hayavik. The Heldannic Knights begin the construction of a series of small forts along the Ethengarian border. Herr Holger loses an eye and becomes a Heldannic hero at the age of 32. AC 930 The Heldannic Knights "pacify" the remainder of the Heldann Freeholds, imposing their law and authority. AC 937 The Citadel of Freiburg is completed. Holger the Blind (at 43 years old) becomes the High Priest of the Heldannic Order. He sends his closest Knights to discover the lost Vault of Vanya. (Wulf von Klagendorf, aka Herr Rolf in Princess Ark, is 19) AC 946 Herr Wulf returns to Freiburg with proof of the sacred vault's location. The Heldannic Knights send a small army, enslave the local tribes, and build a secret fortress on site. AC 947 Herr Wulf discovers the remains of Vanya are a holy relic with magical powers. AC 949 The Heldannic Knights exploit the power of the relic and begin the construction of a fleet of flying ships. AC 951 The Heldannic Knights breach the Sky Shield, and begin space exploration. AC 953 The Heldannic Knights build trading posts in various areas of space. They discover and visit the Hollow World. AC 961 Thincol becomes Emperor at age 23. AC 962 Eriadna becomes Empress at age 42. AC 966 Princess Ark jumps to the future (2,000 AY). Wulf is killed at age 48 by a Synn. First cathedral consecrated to Ixion is completed in Thyatis. The movement expands into Karameikos and Darokin, but fails in Ylaruam. AC 979 Holger the Blind dies at age 85 of old age in Freiburg. Synn's Immortal Patron, returns Wulf von Klagendorf with extra powers to Freiburg. He succeeds Holger at the head of the Heldannic Order (still at age 48). AC 982 The Heldannic Knights conquer a large portion of the Known World's 1st moon. A new, strange metal ore is discovered. Natives become hostile. AC 994 Ixion discovers the magical drain from the Sphere of Energy and traces it back to Glantri and d'Ambreville. Phase I of Wrath of the Immortals starts. AC 995 Etienne d'Ambreville becomes a renegade. Immortals Rathanos and Eiryndul secretly help him. Ixion and Alphatia head the Fire Ring -- a loose alliance including other Immortals from various sphere -- against d'Ambreville. Most notable supporters of the Fire Ring are Valerias (Matter) and Ilsundal (Energy). AC 996 Immortals mostly from other spheres dispute the Fire Ring's goals, headed by Asterius (Thought), Ka (Matter) and Rafiel (Time). They form the Fellowship of the Star. Most notable supporters of the Fellowship include Korotiku (Thought) and Vanya (Time). A number of other Immortals remain neutral. AC 997 Immortals of Entropy claim their neutrality, but in fact secretly help the weaker faction — no matter which one it may become, in order to cause as much damage as possible to the other four spheres. The more active Immortals of Entropy are Alphaks, Atzanteotl and Hel. GAZETTEERS BEGIN AT THIS TIME AC 1000 Princess Ark emerges at the Alphatian Imperial Palace. Wulf is 69 (level 32 Cleric). Haldemar is 51 (Level 21 Wizard). Thincol is 62. Eriadna is 80 (apparent age is 30, magically altered). Heldanners and expatriated Hattians form a mixed race in the Freeholds. Renewed fervor for Al-Kalim grows in Ylaruam. Envoys of The Master contact the Heldannic Knights. Phase I of Wrath of the Immortals ends. AC 1001 Phase II of Wrath of the Immortals begins now. Haldemar's recent interference with The Master's plans provokes an argument between the Heldannic Knights and The Master. The Heldannic Order sends missionaries into Norwold and Ethengar. The Alphatian Council of Wizards accuses Glantri's Great School of Magic of harboring dangerous entropic followers and of using forbidden magics. AC 1002 Spring: Glantrian lycanthropes found their own Principality in Glantri. They immediately ally with their neighbor, the Principality of Sylaire (Etienne d'Ambreville). See PC4 Night Howlers. Summer: Spies sent by The Master to set up Glantrian adventurers in Alphatia. They are framed as the perpetrators of a political assassination against an outspoken opponent of Glantri. The Glantrian Council denies any involvement. Fall: Alphatia breaks diplomatic ties with Glantri. Secret deal between The Master and the Heldannic Knights fails. Winter: Several Glantrian nobles are assassinated (by followers of The Master). Thyatis warns Alphatia to back off. Alphatia denies any involvement. AC 1003 Spring: The Temple of Vanya builds up mystic fervor in Norwold. Thyatis becomes progressively decadent. Summer: Heldannic missionaries massacred in Ethengar. AC 1003 Fall: Heldannic Knights mount several punitive raids into Ethengar. Alphatian spies burn down several Temples of Asterius and set Glantrian adventurers up as culprits. Winter: Glantrian adventurers start a fire that burns down an Alphatian skyship armada in Aasla. AC 1004 Spring: Phase III of Wrath of the Immortals begins. Alphatia declares war on Glantri. Thyatis and the Heldannic Knights side with Glantri. The Master captures Sind. Summer: Alphatia and Thyatis build up their armies on the Isle of Dawn. Alphatian wizards conjure hordes of monsters from other planes and release them in Glantri. Fall: The Alphatian army attacks Thyatian colonies on the Isle of Dawn and captures the Fortress of Kendach. The Ylaruam zealots ally with Alphatia and besiege Biazzan. Winter: The Master invades the Known World. AC 1005 Spring: Glantrian wizard adventurers harass Alphatian nobles in Sundsvall. The Province of West Portage on the Isle of Dawn falls to the Alphatian army. A swarm of red dragons sent by Synn and a coalition of Known World armies wrecks The Master's army and force him to retreat back to Sind permanently. Summer: In revenge of his defeat, The Master releases a meteor that hits Northern Darokin, blasting a huge crater. A black cloud covers Darokin, Alfheim, and the southern half of Glantri. Fall: The Shadow Elves cause the Alfheim forest to mutate and begin their infiltration under the cover of darkness. The dwarves of Rockhome lock themselves up in their caverns. Winter: The Khan of Ethengar invades the Heldann Freeholds and besieges Freiburg. Glantrian adventurers steal a major artifact from the Imperial Palace in Sundsvall. The Alphatian army besieges Redstone Castle on the Isle of Dawn. Biazzan surrenders to the Ylari zealots. AC 1006 Spring: Freiburg still is under siege. The Khan's armies spill over into Vestland and Soderfjord. The Heldannic Knights sign an alliance treaty with Thyatis. Summer: Broken Lands humanoids join with hordes from the Khurish Massif and the Dwarfgate Mountains, under King Thar's authority. They take over the Northern Darokin Crater and invade the south of Glantri. The Alphatian army storms the City of Newkirk on the Isle of Dawn. The Eastern Thyatian Legion ships out and retreats to Thyatis. Fall: Glantri City is under siege from the Orcs of Thar. Redstone Castle surrenders to the Alphatian army. Winter: Alfheim elves flee Canolbarth and split up. Half go north through Ethengar toward Wendar, the others go south toward Karameikos. Allied lycanthropic hordes and mixed Glantrian troops annihilate Thar's forces in a bloodbath at Les Hiboux. AC 1007 Spring: Plague ravages Freiburg. The Khan's hordes retreat to Ethengar, spreading the plague into Ethengar. Ochalea and Nuar claim their independence to avoid war. The Shadow Elves occupy Alfheim. Summer: A Five Shires contingent joins the remainder of the Darokin army in southern Darokin. The City of Helskir betrays Thyatis and sides with Alphatia. The plague spreads into Vestland, Soderfjord, and northern Ylaruam. Fall: The plague spreads into Glantri. Ostland and Heldannic forces trap and massacre remaining Ethengarians at Tromso. The Alphatian fleet defeats the Thyatian navy off the coast of Ylaruam. Winter: Ethengarians pursue Alfheim refugees in Ethengar. The Brotherhood of the Radiance in Glantri begins the construction of a doomsday machine. AC 1008 Spring: Humanoid hordes in Southern Darokin clash with joint Darokin/Five Shires forces. The Alphatian army lands at Cubia, in Ylaruam. Summer: A coalition of Vestland and Heldannic Knights crosses deserted Rockhome, and slams into Thar's rear- guard. The Alphatian army storms the Thyatian border, near Fort Zendrol. AC 1008 Fall: Thar retreats back to the crater and fortifies. Several Alfheim clans resettle woodland areas in Karameikos. The Duchy of Tel Akbir surrenders to the Alphatian army. Winter: The other Alfheim elves cross the northern Glantrian mountains and enter Wendar. The plague spreads to Wendar. The Alphatian army overruns the last Thyatian Legions at the Battles of Kantridae and Retebius. The Brotherhood of the Radiance finishes the construction of their doomsday machine. They use it to conjure a magical storm over the City of Sundsvall, almost killing Empress Eriadna in the process. AC 1009 Spring: Phase IV of the Wrath of the Immortals begins. Empress Eriadna sends the Thousand Arch-mages from the Alphatian Council into Glantri to destroy their doomsday machine. Haldemar (from the Princess Ark) is involved and steals a key component of the doomsday machine. It allows the arch-mages to stop the doomsday machine, but also causes it to explode. The archmages along with many Glantrians die, and d'Ambreville becomes a minion of Entropy, with all disciples of the Brotherhood of the Radiance. Summer: Glantri falls into chaos. Mainland Alphatia "sinks" into the ocean (...and magically reappears as a floating continent in the Hollow World). Prince Eusebius Torion dies in a skirmish, despite a heroic relief effort led by the famous Anaxibius. His galant effort allows the tattered remains of the Thyatian Legions to retreat back into the Imperial Capital. Fall: The Alphatian army surrenders at the gates of the Imperial Capital in Thyatis. Winter: Ylari zealots are defeated and booted out of Biazzan. Alfheim elves settle various woodland areas in Wendar. This marks the end of Wrath of the Immortals. AC 1010 1ST ALMANAC IS WRITTEN. Thyatis begins the reconquest of lost territories. Heldannic Knights annex the Landfall region in Norwold. Surviving Alphatian skyships become pirates (Haldemar becomes a renegade). The dwarves come back out of their caverns. [This is where it gets wierd based on what we know happened... BH.] AC 1011 The balance of power stabilizes. The Glantrian Council is dissolved. Synn takes over the the Glantrian nation. AC 1012 Haldemar prevents Herr Wulf (Rolf) from attaining Immortality — and kills him at age 81. Haldemar is 63, Thincol the Brave is 74. Max der Stutz becomes the High Priest of the Order. Tension grows between the Heldannic Knights and the Thyatians. Glantri turns the Broken Lands and the Darokin Crater into a Glantrian colony. [YOWZA! None of this stuff ever happened! BH.] AC 1013 Using obscure self-defense reasons as a pretext, the Heldannic Knights invade the Oceansend Kingdom in Norwold. Upon the Knights victory at the capital, the local ruler, King Yarrvik, dies in a mysterious "accident". A pro-Heldannic leader immediately replaces Yarrvik. Oceansend becomes the "Most Pious Protectorate of the Heldannic Order". Thyatis breaks its alliance with the Heldannic Knights and denounces the Order's act of outrageous brutality and treachery against an ally of the empire. AC 1014 Although no war is declared, Thyatis and the Heldannic Knights become hostile and compete in their endeavor to colonize distant lands. Synn names herself Queen of Darkness and becomes the Known World's major public enemy. Rumors fly of a secret pact between Synn and Heldannic Max der Stutz. Thincol the Brave dies of old age. Princess Stefania Torion becomes the Empress of Thyatis. Haldemar obtains a Letter of Marque from the new Empress to act as a corsair... and an explorer. Yeah... right. ;o) [END OFPART 4] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #470 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 471 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:03 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] The D&D® Game Now & Tomorrow The D&D Game was published nearly twenty years ago. It has undergone a series of updates and revisions, the latest being this year's with the D&D boxed set and the Game Cyclopedia. The older D&D Game came in five boxed sets: Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, and Immortals. Each set had a particular goal. The Basic set was an introduction to role-playing. Like the present boxed set, it dealt essentially with teaching the game up to level 3 of experience, and adventuring in dungeons. The Expert set dealt with experience levels 4-14 and wilderness adventuring. The Companion set was limited to levels 15-25 and to the topic of how to become the ruler of a dominion. Master covered levels 26-36, and gave guidelines to players on how to have their characters start a quest for immortality. Finally, Immortals set explained all about them. These five sets are no longer in use. The present D&D boxed set (the large black box with the Dungeon Map and the Dragon Cards), and the Game Cyclopedia (the 300-page hardback book) replace the first five sets completely. The replacement of the last one, Immortals, is the focus of 1992 — with Wrath of the Immortals. So far, there are many products available for the game. Here are the more important of them. Entry Level Modules: These adventures are designed for novices. However, only the Dymrak Dread module works specifically with the new D&D boxed set. More of these are due early in 1992. The others were designed for the older Basic set. They are nevertheless good adventures that a Dungeon Master familiar with the Game Cyclopedia could use to break novice players in. B1-9 — In Search of the Unknown: Written for the old Basic set, this module provides the best parts of the first nine D&D modules. B11 — Queen's Harvest: A simple starter module for written for the old Basic set. It also helps a rookie Dungeon Master learn about role- playing to entertain his audience. B12 — King's Festival: Written in the same style as B11, King's Festival is the sequel of the adventure started in B11. It is set in the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. DDa1 — Arenas of Thyatis: A module for low level characters, this adventure requires more experience to play compared to B11 and B12. Recommended for the Game Cyclopedia, it teaches special DMing techniques. DDa2 - Legions of Thyatis: As with Arenas, Legions was written more specifically for Dawn of the Emperors, a boxed Gazetteer on Thyatis and Alphatia. DDa2 is a follow-up adventure for Arenas of Thyatis. DDa3 — Eye of Traldar: An excellent adventure for beginners, this module is also compatible for the new D&D boxed set. It takes the characters into the gloomy fortress of Baron Von Hendriks in Karameikos. DDa4 — The Dymrak Dread: This is the first module exclusively designed for the new D&D boxed set. This 16 page adventure also contains a colorful mapsheet representing Dymrak's dungeon, plus stand-up characters and monsters (available December 1991). Champion Level Modules Here are several modules for higher levels of play to look for. Although these adventures were designed for the older D&D game sets, they are perfect for use with the Game Cyclopedia. These adventures all take place in the Known World. X10 — Red Arrow Black Shield: This module depicts the part of the Great War that deals with The Master. Its contents will be largely reused as part of Wrath of the Immortals. X11 — Saga of the Shadow Lord: This popular adventure brings the player characters in Wendar and Denagoth, two realms north of the Known World. X12 — Skarda's Mirror: A powerful bandit found the magical mirror of Skarda and uses it to imprison people into another plan. A great adventure set in Karameikos. X13 — Crown of Ancient Glory: Adventurers discover the Realm of Vestland and leave on a quest to find a magical crown. The fate of the rightful successor is at stake. CM1 & CM2 — Test of the Warlord, Deathride: These are Adventures in Norwold for characters levels 16 and higher. Great for characters who already became Barons or rulers of greater dominions. M1 & M2 — Into the Maelstrom, Revenge of Alphaks: These two modules take characters on sagas that begin their quest to Immortality. They discover the world of outer space and the true origins of the ancient Alphatians. Major Game Accessories The largest and best known series of accessories in the D&D® Game are the Gazetteers. You can find references to the Gazetteers in the Known World section of this Reference Guide. Here are some of the more important accessories in the D&D Game line. Unless indicated otherwise, all are for use with the Game Cyclopedia. Gazetteers and Creatures Crucibles all contain an adventure section. PC1 — Tall Tales of the Wee Folk: Deals especially with the fairy races and other woodland beings in the Known World (pixies, dryads, centaurs, wood imps, etc...) PC1 tells of their customs, their kingdoms, and how to create player characters in this new environment. PC2 — Top Ballista: The gnomes are at it again! In this light-hearted product, they have built a giant flying city. They travel the Known World, peddling their curious inventions, and seeking fuel for their gargantuan contraption. Players get to be part of the Top Ballista Squadron, an elite force of flying machines that defends the city. PC3 — The Sea People: The strange nations of the Known World's undersea are detailed in this accessory. The Sea People way of intreacting with the surfact folk is explained here. Players get to create new characters and discover the secret of the tritons and the fearsome kopru. AC4 — Book of Marvelous Magic: A must have for the completist. This accessory offers many magical objects the players can use in the game, some innocuous, some practical adventuers' items, others very deadly. AC6 — Character Sheets: A classic accessory that everyone buys sooner or later. This stock of blank forms allows players to record their characters' descriptions. It can be used with all the D&D game products. AC7 — Master DM Screen: A practical item for Dungeon Masters. It is a cardboard screen the Dungeon Master sets up on the table to hide vital information from the players. It also displays a number of useful charts and tables. It will do well with the Game Cyclopedia. AC8 — Book of Wondrous Inventions: This accessory expands on PC3, providing the Dungeon Master and the players with a collection of the Known World's weirdest inventions! AC9 — Creature Catalog: A great addition to the D&D Game Cyclopedia, this accessory provides a wealth of different creatures and monsters that the DM can throw at the players' characters. AC10 — Bestiary of Dragons & Giants: This accessory provides information on the various dragon and giant types of the Known World, a series of mini-adventures related to that theme, and a neat spell card for dragons. TM1 & TM2 — Known World Trailmaps: All the Gazetteer maps are assembled and updated in these two huge 36" by 57" road maps. Includes a nifty travellers guide to the Know World on weather, road conditions, taxes and currencies. A must have for true specialists of the Known World. Ride Safely! and last but not least... Hollow World: this boxed set is an accessory to the D&D Game. It tells how The Immortals made the World of Mystara hollow and why. It describes the lands and people therein. Although the Hollow World now is a line of products separate from the Known World, the two worlds often connect. Tunnels, caves, and magical artifacts lead from the Known World to the Hollow World, such as those described in GAZ13 The Shadow Elves, or GAZ14 The Atruaghin Clans. A number of Hollow World adventure modules and accessories for use with the Game Cyclopedia are now available. All of these products are fully described in a separate Reference Guide for the Hollow World. Tentative 1992 Plan Wrath of the Immortals 1992 is the year we reintroduce a completely revised Immortals set. All of the Champion Level products that year will revolve around the new accessory Wrath of the Immortals, and its theme of the Great War. Many other products will be available for the D&D Game, either in the Entry Level category, or for the Hollow World. These are described separately in their respective Reference Guides. Wrath of the Immortals boxed set: In truth it really does qualify both as an accessory, and a mega- adventure! Wrath provides a set of rules about Immortals, who they are, what they do, where they live, how to become and role-play one. But that's only half the product. The other half provides an adventure saga — actually three of them! The first adventure is for novices, the second for established heroes, and the last for dukes and kings. All have their place and effects on the Great War. These sagas can be played simultaneously by three different groups of players, or one after the other in a game that could last many months! They also provide a dramatic campaign background for the rest of the Known World. We explained quite a bit about Wrath (see previous chapters in this Reference Guide: Heroes & Villains, and The Future of the Known World). PC4 - Night Howlers: This Creature Crucible describes in great detail famous lycanthropes in the Known World, their backgrounds and abilities. As with previous Creature Crucibles, players get to create lycanthropic characters and role-play them. This accessory is set in Glantri which legitimately qualifies as the Grand Capital of Lycanthropy (see GAZ3), near the spiritual home of Etienne d'Ambreville, a major personality in Wrath of the Immortals. A series of adventures in PC4 lead to the creation of a Patron Immortal of Lycanthropes allied to Etienne. This adventure links with PHASE II — The Build-Up in the Wrath of the Immortals. AC1010 D&D® Almanac: a 256-page trade paperback booklet providing general information about the Known World and the Hollow World (geographic, political, and historical info, a who's-who of the D&D® Game world, etc) and a full gaming year's worth of future "historical" events that keep the D&D® Game world literally alive. The Almanac very easily incorporates all new information generated by the Wrath of the Immortals campaign. At the very least it could provide another gaming year's worth of events that reflect the situation during PHASE IV -- The Aftermath in Wrath of the Immortals. The Almanac is a must have item for those customers who missed the earlier gazetteers. Tentative 1993 Plan [Can you say Kablooey!? BH.] The Princess Ark The Princess Ark is presently published in the DRAGON® Magazine as an on-going series. 1993 will see its development into a product line in D&D. Princess Ark™ Boxed Set: This set describes the Princess Ark ship and life aboard. Players get to play either crew members under the authority of the various heroes from the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar in the Heroes & Villains section in this Reference Guide), or become the commanding officers at higher levels. Includes a summary of Haldemar's ship log (from DRAGON® Magazine), an overview of the Known World in AC 1010, and many adventures for all levels of play. The Princess Ark should also mark the beginning of a new series of accessories continuing the old Gazetteers' task of exploring the Known World (see next). PAS1 — The Heldannic Knights, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This is a successor to the old D&D® Gazetteer series. This new supplement focuses on the Heldann Freeholds and the chaotic knighthood that rules the nation. The Heldannic Knights have been long time foes of the Princess Ark. Includes an in-depth look at an order of knights in the D&D® Game, an expanded background and new powers for Clerics and Avengers. PAA1 — The Crown of Synn: This adventure module is for use with the Princess Ark boxed set. The player characters are part of a landing party in the evil land of Glantri. They are to retrieve the Crown of Synn, an instrument of Glantrian hegemony in the Known World and return to the ship. The ultimate plan is to provoke Synn, Queen of Darkness and long-time rival of the Princess Ark, to risk an attack against the fabled ship and perhaps to meet her demise. DCr1 — Fantasy Cities™ #1, Specularum AC 1011: This new supplement provides a new look at the classic city of the D&D® Game, during the game year of 1011 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical information, etc. We may develop a link with the electronic games based upon Karameikos. Champions' DM Screen: This replaces the old AC7 Master Player's Screen (9156). This eight panel screen features a unique piece of art on one side (or a huge DUNGEON & DRAGONS logo), and useful charts on the inside. The product is packaged in a 4p disposable paper cover. AC1011 D&D® Almanac: This yearly Christmas item continues to expand the historical data of the Known and Hollow World settings. This supplement provides global game events for the Game Year of AC 1011 (one year after the Wrath of the Immortals). Tentative 1994 Plan [Where fiction did NOT meet w/reality... BH.] Blackmoor Reborn Adventures in Blackmoor™ Boxed Set: This campaign set allows the return of the Blackmoor civilization in the Known World. A bit of history: Blackmoor destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World. Blackmoor re-establishes itself on the Known World, after being copiously trashed by their Immortal (ex)- patrons. Blackmoor distinguishes itself from the traditional fantasy genre because of modern technology equipment that keeps showing up in their setting. These are rare, poorly understood items that become very dangerous in the wrong hands. In a nutshell, Blackmoor qualifies as "dark-age medieval fantasy with technology"! BMa1 — Blackmoor #1 of 2, The Egg of Coot: This adventure takes traditional player characters from the usual Known World to the chaotic Land of Blackmoor. They discover the secret and dark wonders of Blackmoor and realize the risks they pose to their way of life. They must shut down one of the known sources of technology—the strange and mysterious Egg of Coot. But it is indeed a deadly place. BMa2 — Blackmoor #2 of 2, The Doomsday Rod: An adventure for native Blackmoor characters. These adventurers hear of a secret weapons cache forgotten by the powerful entities of their land. Contrary to the wisdom of characters in the traditional Known World setting, these fellows want these lethal contraptions to fulfill their dreams of power! The player characters are allowed to get their hands on the deadly weapons, but in so doing trigger a doomsday machine. The characters must use (and hopefully deplete) their newly acquired equipment to destroy the frightening machine. A typical shoot'em up escapade for gun powder-crazed players! PAS2 — The Winds of Sind, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: Focuses on the Kingdom of Sind. It details this vast realm of gurus, beggars, and wealthy maharajahs. A common port of call for the Princess Ark lies in the city of Jahore, Pearl of Putnabad. The captain of the Princess Ark, Haldemar, narrates his visit of Sind. DCr2 — Fantasy Cities™ #2, Thyatis AC 1012: This supplement provides a new look at the ancient Imperial City, during the game year of 1012 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical information, etc. AC1013 — #3 in the D&D® Almanac Collection This yearly Christmas item continues to expand the historical data of the Known and Hollow World settings. This supplement provides global game events in 1012 AC (two years after Wrath of the Immortals). 1995 — Red Steel Red Steel, Campaign Boxed Set: Our tentative plan for '95 includes the development of the Savage Coast, west of the Known World. This region was colonized by the more disreputable and ruthless people of the Known World: criminals, unscrupulous adventurers, and pawns of Entropy on a quest for power and wealth. Ignored by their Known World cousins, the conquerors forged new empires, unbound by the laws or philosophies of civilization. There, they discovered Red Steel, a very precious but poisonous metal that provides special powers, but also can kill if improperly handled. Red Steel affects everyone and everything there, from the kingdoms' economies to their philosophies. The result is a setting where wars and treachery are as common as dragons in the uplands. Magic, science, or common wealth are a thing of the past, rarities in this violent world. Only ferocious rivalries now remain, opposing the Dark Kingdoms to the native rebels of the Savage Coast. RSa1 — Red Steel #1 of 2, The Rif-Raf Barons: This adventure brings player characters from the traditional Known World to the Savage Coast. They have been hired to seek valuable merchandise from a local baron, and ship it back to a Minrothad Guild merchant prince. They are authorized to buy the secret merchandise with weaponry that could allow the baron to crush a rebellion. Will they side with their employer? Will they turn to the insurgents? Will they listen to rival barons? RSa2 — Red Steel #2 of 2, The Slagovich Conspiracy: The wealthy Hierarch of Slagovich dreams of becoming a greater king and is plotting to have various rif-raf barons marry his sisters. But the rebels are watching and plan mischief of their own. The player characters are hired to escort the youngest sister safely across the Gulf of Hule to one of the baronies. The Hierarch plans to have the barons assassinated later and seize power for himself in the name of Greater Slagovich. The plot thickens when the PCs discover the Slagovich Maidens are not the true sister of the Hierarch either. They are impostors serving The Master, Ruler of Hule. PAS3 — The Swords of Wendar, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This supplement focuses on the Kingdom of Wendar, city-building elves. It details its people, their history and their land. Elven magic, architecture and engineering skills are revealed. Haldemar narrates his journey across Wendar and his discoveries. DCr3 — Fantasy Cities™, Ylaruam AC 1013: This supplement provides a look at the Fabled City of the Desert, Jewel of Al Kalim, during the game year of 1013 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical info, etc. AC1013 — #4 in the D&D® Almanac Collection: This yearly Christmas item continues to expand the historical data of the Known and Hollow World settings. This supplement provides global game events for the Game Year of 1013 AC (13 years after the beginning of Wrath of the Immortals). [END OF FILE] All done! Okay -- we can chuck a lot of this stuff, but it was fun seeing what we were planning... nah, "planning" is too strong a term here, I'd say - -- what our letter to Santa read like back in 1991. :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:18 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2] The Known World Most fantasy games are set in a universe, an imaginary world shared by common people and heroes, destitutes and kings. Dungeons, cities, kingdoms, and even whole planets are invented and detailed, offering locations where adventures could take place. The intent of a game world is to provide a familiar background to the players that encourages them to interact with the game's imaginary personalities played by the Dungeon Master. These ties help the Dungeon Master develop plausible adventures in a tangible environment — just like in a movie. This allows players to better relate to their game characters, which makes the game more fun and attractive to the players. In the D&D® Game, there is the Known World. It is a small region on the World of Mystara, where most adventures take place. D&D players are familiar with this setting, because it was introduced in the core rules system — the D&D® Game Cyclopedia. It is called the Known World because for centuries little was known about what lay beyond its shores. With great explorers and invasions however, the Known World slowly grew to include other lands. Mystara is a strange world. It was shaped by ultra-powerful beings called The Immortals. They are the ones who created this world, and then brought it life. Some advocated human cultures, others fostered the civilizations of dwarves, elves, halflings, and even the monstrous kingdoms of the orcs and of the dragons. For the Immortals, a reason exists for all life on Mystara. Mystara has three main continents, Brun, Skothar, and Davania, and several large islands such as the Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, and Bellissaria. Nowadays, the Known World mostly covers the territories of two rival empires, Thyatis and Alphatia, and neighboring kingdoms located in the northern hemisphere, between Skothar and Brun. The best known, most detailed region remains in a very small area of the southeastern corner of Brun. There, in a territory no more than 1,700 miles across, lie over fifteen sovereign kingdoms. Like a mosaic, they offer a wide variety of background flavors, ranging from the sun-baked dunes of Ylaruam to the gentle hills of the Five Shires. All theses nations were fully developed in a collection of supplements called the Gazetteers, one of the best selling Dungeons & Dragons® game products. All of these nations show up on the two D&D® Trail Maps, along with useful information for travellers! The Known World is a setting whose cultures and level of technological development resemble the Europe of our Earth around the 15th century. The Known World hasn't yet developed gunpowder or the printing press, but in many other ways the two worlds are similar. In many regions, the more powerful people rely heavily on magic, perhaps a bit more so than is customary in other fantasy worlds. What makes the Known World so popular is its consistency, its coherence, and its refreshing blend of cultures. Great attention was paid to historical backgrounds, civilizations and philosophies, the people and their leaders, and intricate geographical features of their lands. Relative to its size, the Known World is the most detailed and varied game setting in our field. After the World of Greyhawk™ Setting, developed for the AD&D® Game, the Known World is the oldest game setting and still registers sustained sales in the industry. Even today, the Known World is the object of further expansion. It is described initially in the D&D Game Cyclopedia, and further detailed by a series of accessories (the Gazetteers). Most game worlds are initially described in an accessory product that is separate from the game rules — as is the case with the Hollow World in the D&D Game and all of the AD&D Game worlds. Here are a few of the nations that make the Known World: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos Where it all starts. This nation of the Known World has been the starting point of many of our Entry Level adventures (most B-series modules, for example, were set in Karameikos, as were computer games). This heavily-forested region used to be known as Traladara, a "nation" that was really a loose confederation of independent baronies. Thirty years ago, Stefan Karameikos, an ambitious nobleman of the nearby Empire of Thyatis, traded his ancestral lands to the Thyatian emperor for Thyatian recognition of Karameikos' right to independent rule of Traladara. Spending all his family fortunes on mercenary armies, Stefan Karameikos invaded Traladara, quickly conquering the nation's largest sea-port, Marilenev, and settling garrisons in all the region's larger communities. He renamed the nation after himself: It became the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The Thyatian rulers, though they control the nation's economic and military might, don't have complete control of the nation. Karameikos is a land where thousands of square miles of dark forests are populated only by animals, by hermit-like loggers and foresters, by forest folk such as elves and centaurs, even by monsters — the Traladaran forests are an ancient home to vampires, werewolves and other dark creatures of legend. Secret Traladaran popular movements oppose the Thyatians, occasionally sabotaging the plans and activities of their rulers. Karameikos is a divided land, its majority Traladaran population ruled by the invader Thyatian population. The Traladarans are a very free-spirited, spiritual people with clothing and names similar to inhabitants of our Earth's Eastern Europe. The Thyatians are a pragmatic and self-centered people, with the conquering instincts of Earth's ancient Romans (with their tastes in entertainment, too). Naturally, the two population elements tend to dislike one another greatly. Ref. GAZ 1 — The Grand Duchy of Karameikos The Empire of Thyatis The Warrior Empire Thyatis is a seaside empire infamous for its violent history, the cunning and treachery of its leaders throughout the millennia, the decadence of its entertainments, and the might of its army. In many ways, it resembles Earth's Roman and Byzantine Empires during the periods when their armies were achieving their greatest victories and their courts were well on their sliding way into decline. Thyatis is the nemesis of Alphatia, its eastern neighbor. They have been at war many times with Alphatia, and the current truce is but a fragile peace that may easily cede to yet another great war — the stakes: control of the Known World seas and the rich colonies on Skothar and Davania. The people of Thyatis admire fighting ability above all else. They tend to be very clever traders. Their politicians, merchants, and ambitious military officers tend to be none too trustworthy, but adventurers don't have to have this personality trait. The capital and perhaps the greatest city of the Known World, the City of Thyatis is justly renowned for the magnificence of its marble architecture and the sophistication and decadence of its noble ruling class. The City of Thyatis is the empire's greatest seaport, with an enclosed and defended harbor, and is the seat of the empire's trade and naval fleets. Like ancient Rome at the height of the Roman Empire, it is avibrant, teeming city whose population is so great that it strains against the very walls, whose people are enthralled by gladiatorial spectacle (the Coliseum seats nearly one-tenth of the city population at a time), and whose Senate is virtually a school for intrigue and deception. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Empire of Alphatia The Magical Empire Master of Magic, Alphatia is a mighty power to the east of the Thyatian Empire, ruling the Islands of Alphatia and Bellissaria, the northeastern coast of Brun, and many other small nations. The original Alphatians are not native to this dimension. Their original very magical home, far away in another plane, was destroyed in a philosophical war of magic. The Alphatians came to the Known World and settled, building a new empire based on magic. There are two kinds of Alphatians: Common and Pure. Common Alphatians have coppery skin and brown (sometimes red) hair; Pure Alphatians, a distinct minority, have very pale white skin and dark hair. Neither race has a cultural advantage in the empire. Unlike the Principalities of Glantri (see later in this Chapter), all people using clerical or wizard spells — spellcasters — are considered nobles; non-spellcasters have few rights. Spellcasters and non-spellcasters live under different sets of laws, laws which (naturally) favor the spellcasters. Prejudice in Alphatia isn't based on skin color, culture, or mystical philosophies; it is based on magical ability or its lack. The imperial capital of Alphatia lies in the southwestern region of the continent. As the capital of a magical empire, it is heavily decorated by and protected by magic spells, and is often called the "city built by magic." It is also the port of call for the awesome Alphatian skyships. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Emirates of Ylaruam The Arabian Desert This is a desert land, all blazing sun, rolling dunes, and widely-separated oases, similar in appearance and the culture of its people to the medieval-era Arabian peninsula of our Earth. In recent centuries, the Thyatians to the south and Alphatians to the far east have come to Ylaruam to conquer; they moved in, the Thyatians from the south and the Alphatians from the north, and fought in the center, their wars going on for decades until the Ylari people threw them out. The Alasiyan culture which is dominant in Ylaruam is as harsh as the desert that spawned it. The Ylari greatly admire the desert warrior, the turbaned hero with his flashing scimitar and noble desert steed. Magic use is forbidden here; magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known. On the other hand, clerics are venerated in this land. The Ylari follow the philosophies of Al-Kalim, a warrior and teacher who embarked on a Path to Immortality a century ago. His dream was of the Desert Garden, all the desert lands of Ylaruam transformed by work and cooperation into the greenest and fairest of lands; when the Ylari need something to unite them, they use the words of Al-Kalim. Though the clans and tribes of Ylaruam often war with one another, they willingly forget their differences to band against foreign invaders... and then just as willingly renew their internal struggles once the invasion is thrown back. Ref.: GAZ 2 — The Emirates of Ylaruam. The Principalities of Glantri The Eccentric Wizards This mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. In this country, clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found). Glantri is divided into many principalities, each of which has its own ruler, and laws. Aalban is famous for the machines and devices its craftsmen make. Belcadiz is home to elves who are famous for their metalworks and their fine black lace; the elves in this nation live more like humans than elves, dwelling in fine houses and cities rather than woodland communities. Bergdhoven is famous for its flowers (and the dyes and perfumes which come from them), its cheeses, and its jewelry and gemcutters. Blackhill is best-known for the quantity of its fruits and vegetables, and for the coal mined here. Boldavia is a major supplier of salt (mined by convicts and slaves) and ice (shipped hastily to Glantri City and other places). Caurenze is best known for its graceful marble architecture, its gold mines and fine weaponry. Erewan is a land of more traditional sylvan elves, who are fine bowyers, woodworkers, and artists. Klantyre is a major supplier of wool and mutton, lumber and heavy woodwork. Krondahar is a producer of silk and leather goods, fine beef and yogurt. New Averoigne is best-known for its wines and the culinary arts. The population is a blend of many ancient cultures, including very urban elves, sylvan elves, descendants of Alphatians, Thyatian colonists, Traladarans, and even races from other dimensions. Ref.: GAZ 3 — The Principalities of Glantri The Islands of Ierendi A Tropical Adventurers' Paradise It is a very peculiar kingdom — the Known World's capital for adventurers, and a vacation spot for retired dungeoneers! Even the King and Queen are chosen among the best adventurers, and get to rule over some of the richest people ever, as well as the true native Ierendians, the very kind Makai tribes. Ierendi consists mostly of a large tropical island in the Sea of Dread, just south of Brun. The kingdom includes such colorful places as Safari Island where mockup dungeons and monster hunts are available for would-be adventurers among the common folk! Depending on how much a customer is willing to pay for entertainment, treasures can be just as fake as the monsters. Other places nearby also include Fletcher Island, a place for medieval tourists seeking peace and tranquility under a coconut tree, Alcove Island, a nest for buccaneers and pirates, or Aloysius Island further to the south which is a harsh penal colony, as well as a heaven for gold miners and lizard men. Come to Ierendi, again and again! Ref.: GAZ 4 — The Kingdom of Ierendi The Forest of Alfheim The Faerie Woods This is the homeland of sylvan elves. Once a featureless plain, it was magically transformed into a deep, dark forest — one that is ominous to humans and other races but cheerful to elves. This is a land of enormous trees, of elven cities made up of tree-houses hundreds of feet in the air and connected by wooden catwalks. It's a place where few non-elves come unless they are invited... or invading. The people of Alfheim are all elves — except residents of Alfheim Town (10,000 humans, 300 dwarves, 800 halflings, and a few others). The elves here are much as they are in other parts of the world: Lithe and mysterious, magical and merry, they are followers of nature and growing things. They are no friends of the dwarves in Rockhome or the humanoids in the Broken Lands. Alfheim is located entirely within the Republic of Darokin, with whom they maintain cordial ties. Their worst foes are the Shadow Elves whose realm lies deep underground. Their gloomy caverns can reach the heart of Alfheim (see Shadow Elves later in this section). Ref.: GAZ 5 — The Elves of Alfheim The Mountains of Rockhome The Dwarven Citadel This is a land of fertile valleys surrounded by high, treacherous mountains. Rockhome is the land of the world's dwarves, and its thick ring of mountains is well-suited to them both defensively and aesthetically. The dwarves build their communities of strong stone; they're famous for their engineering skills. Many of Rockhome towns and villages are either partially or completely built underground, particularly in the large natural caverns which riddle this territory. This potent combination of surrounding mountains, defensive stone fortifications, and underground communities makes Rockhome difficult to invade. Almost all residents of Rockhome are dwarves. The dwarves of Rockhome seem aloof, surly and suspicious to outsiders, but they are merry and friendly when among their own kind. Ref.: GAZ 6 — The Dwarves of Rockhome Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland Three Flavors of Norsemen These three nations, living in chilly northern seaside lands, are all similar to Earth's ancient Viking cultures at various eras. The Soderfjord Jarldoms is a poor nation full of contentious jarls (earls) and plagued by humanoid invaders. Vestland is a mainland country with a history of military achievement. Ostland is an island nation with a great tradition of seamanship and piracy. The men and women of Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland are a tall, fair, rugged breed. Shaped by their environment and their histories of warfare and noble adventure, they're a very aggressive lot. Ref.: GAZ 7 — The Northern Reaches The Five Shires The Halfling Lands This seaside nation north of Ierendi is the homeland of the halflings ("hin"). Though the hin here have been three times ruled by outsiders (twice by orcs, once by dwarves), the Five Shires are now ruled entirely by hin, and constitute a strong, independent nation with a strong army and navy. The Five Shires region is a broad, deeply-forested piece of rolling land. The land is very fertile and hin farmers can get two or three harvests per year; the Five Shires export a lot of grain to Darokin, Glantri and Karameikos. The Five Shires really is a nation divided into five regions, called shires, each of which is semi- independent and ruled by a sheriff. The Shires include Seashire, Highshire, Eastshire, Heartshire, and Southshire. The great majority of residents of the Five Shires are halflings. But, while most humans think that halflings are peace-loving and harmless, there are many halfling adventurers and buccaneers in this region. Ref.: GAZ 8 — The Five Shires The Minrothad Islands The Sea Merchants They are located east of Ierendi, next to the Empire of Thyatis. Also called the Minrothad Guilds, they are notorious for their naval power and great wealth. It is a nation run by Merchant Princes, literal barons of the Sea of Dread and life line for many of the coastal cities on the Sea of Dread. A large proportion of the people are elves who developed an attraction for things of the sea. On Traders Island, the population is evenly divided among humans and elves, but on the next largest island of the Guilds, Alfeisle, the vast majority consists of elves. These are a peaceful people who acquired great knowledge of the sea, navigation, ship building, and commerce. They benefit from a friendly relationship with their great neighbor, the Empire of Thyatis, and are rumored to have ties with many other distant realms such as Alphatia, mysterious kingdoms in Davania, and the Great Hule far to the west of the Known World. The Minrothad Guilds keep their navigation rutters very secret. They are the naval counterpart of the land-based Republic of Darokin (see later in this Reference Guide). Ref.: GAZ 9 — The Guilds of Minrothad The Broken Lands The Unhuman Tribes This is a wasteland of rugged hills and mountains, infertile valleys and canyons, and blasted plains and deserts. Long ago, it was a rich land, but it was smashed by a techno-magical disaster which changed the very face of the world. Since then, it has been an ugly and useless land shunned by humans and demi- humans. Because none of these races want the Broken Lands, this region has become home to the humanoids — the orcs, kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, and other races who resemble humans but hate them and cannot seem to compete with them. The humanoids of the Broken Lands are divided into countless numbers of loosely-allied tribes. They are united only in that they obey King Thar and mass together under his decree to raid surrounding nations for food, slaves and wealth. A vast network of caverns and tunnels exists underneath the Broken Lands. Occasionally, humanoids venture into galleries that lead them far into the heart of neighboring countries, especially Rockhome, Alfheim, and Darokin. Some go deep enough to even reach the dark lands of the Shadow Elves (see later in this Reference Guide). Earthquakes regularly wreak havoc on these tunnels, sometimes obliterating entire migrating tribes. Ref.: GAZ 10 — The Broken Lands The Republic of Darokin The Caravan Empire It is the third largest nation of the Known World, after the Empires of Thyatis and Alphatia. This republic is one of the greater economic and diplomatic powers in the region because it maintains common borders with ten other nations. Darokinians are the wheelers and dealers of the Known World. For them, all is fine as long as business is good. Darokinians are known as the Trail Builders. They are the ones who mount expeditions into wildlands to open new routes to distant kingdoms. The Darokinians are fond of creating enterprises that will seek new wealth far beyond the common trails. They own many of the caravans that travel the Known World, from Norwold to the Great Hule. The worst foe of Darokin lies on the northern border: The Orcs of King Thar. These non-human creatures constantly raid the caravans travelling between Glantri and Darokin. The orcs also sacked the city of Corunglain several times in history. Ref.: GAZ 11 — The Republic of Darokin [END OF PART 2] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #471 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 472 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Chronomancy) [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) [MYSTARA] - Really Old Stuff!! [MYSTARA] - Please read this!!! [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Just a Test [MYSTARA] - Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread [MYSTARA] - Almanac Entry: Nueva Ispanola Part 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:31 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Chronomancy) > Since OD&D Mystara never mentioned chronomancy, does that mean that the canon 3E Mystara conversion should forbid chronomancy, just like it's been suggested psionics? [Shane] Actually... :o) I recall implying in the original Gaz 3 that time travel was a possibiliy, at least as one of the ways of destroying the Nucleus of the Spheres (that is, preventing its creation in the first place). This does not mean specifically that chronomancy is OK, but that it might be. Naturally, I wouldn't make use of it too often since it could really mess up a campaign, IIRC. I would make this a rare option. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:27 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past (long) Here's a copy of an old file (circa '93 or '94) -- this document was supposed to be part of a small "Guide to Mystara" to be used withing TSR (I'm looking for the missing doc.) Some of this is no longer factual, but I thought it would be interesting to post it here... Parts could be redeveloped and used in a Mystara promotion pamphlet. (???) So it goes. Mystara — Before and After The D&D® Game's Version The World of Mystara™ was originally designed as an integral part of the D&D Game (often referred to as the Basic D&D Game). This campaign setting goes back to the revised Expert Rules set, the version published in 1981. It consisted then of more or less three pages of text and about as much of black-and-white maps describing a score of nations and the Village of Threshold where new heroes would presumably start their Expert-Level careers as adventurers. This was the Known World. To date, this is the longest-lived game world created by TSR. During the following twelve years, the D&D Game line developed this little world with the publication of the best- selling Gazetteers. These 96-page booklets, for the most part, were individually devoted to single nations of the Known World. They provided in-depth studies of these realms, focusing on their unique traits. Today, about fourteen of these accessories have been produced, plus a boxed set covering the Empire of Thyatis and its nemesis, the wizards' Empire of Alphatia. Part of the success of the D&D Gazetteer line in the U.S.A. came from its format. Gazetteers often called for dialogues and narratives to entertain and inform the reader, innovative page presentations, adventures included within the accessories, and poster-sized mapsheets of the nations. The latter were greatly-detailed hex maps that precisely connected with each other. Eventually, they led to the release of two huge road maps, each about 1½ m. high by 1 m. wide, displaying what had been almost a decade ago a modest two-page, black- and-white map of the Known World in the Expert Rules set! In the mean time, the Hollow World feature was added to the world of Mystara, along with its own line of modules and accessories inspired from the Known World Gazetteers. The D&D Game's World of Mystara was a popular game setting for those who had discovered its wealth of colorful detail, its unique political and magical intricacies, and a vast amount of published information. By the early 1990's more than 2,000 pages-worth of material had been released within the product line, in addition to an impressive array of neat color mapsheets. It wasn't uncommon to see Dungeon Masters adapting the D&D Game world, in whole or in part, to their AD&D® Game campaigns. The Known World had the advantage that most AD&D Game players were totally unfamiliar with it — to the great delight of their DMs! The culmination of the D&D Game's world came with the release of the Rules Cyclopedia, a single hard-cover book which compiled and packed all 300 pages from various rules sets. The D&D Game had up to five different rules sets at the time, from the Basic to the Master's Sets. This new book provided all these rules from level 1 to 36, spells, monsters, magical items, and even a summary of the World of Mystara. This made the D&D Game more playable, and finally put the Mystara within reach of the players who shunned game conversions. One of the most recent products designed for the World of Mystara include Wrath of the Immortals. This important campaign adventure portrays a major clash between the Empires of Thyatis and Alphatia, which swept through the entire Known World and beyond. The conflict ended ten game years after the standard era described in the Gazetteers, with Alphatia sinking into the oceans much like mythical Atlantis did. Its biggest contribution to the Mystara is a revision of the old D&D Immortals Set. Wrath of the Immortals provides a complete set of rules to create and role-play the Immortals, entities with god-like powers, either as NPCs quietly pulling the strings of Mystara's backstage, or player characters in the mood to create a new race of followers, or to chew up a few worlds for dinner! One of the "classical" goals of heroes in Mystara is to start as first-level adventurers and complete heroic quests that will perhaps earn them to the keys to true immortality. The last major product released for the D&D Game was Champions of Mystara. This boxed set provides a compilation of a long series of articles published in TSR's Dragon® Magazine from early 1990 to late 1993. The regular magazine feature, called Voyage of the Princess Ark and later The Known World Grimoire told the adventures of a famous Alphatian explorer and his magical flying ship as a way to unveil obscure regions of Mystara. In particular, Champions of Mystara developed a complete set of rules on designing magical flying ships, creating new game settings to explore, and the captain's log book where all of his adventures are told. The captain's tribulations take him far to the west of the Known World, where he unveils clues about the impending war between Thyatis and Alphatia, the Wrath of the Immortals. The AD&D® Game's Version In July 1994, following a major effort at TSR to simplify the structure its product lines and redirect its marketing focus, it was decided to repackage the World of Mystara for the AD&D Game. Of course, part of the thinking was to preserve this unique game world and make it fully available to TSR's largest customer base. A "home world" that could also be played with both the AD&D Game's First Quest — the long- awaited introduction to the AD&D Game — and the full range of AD&D Game rules was needed. First Quest is an introduction to role-playing, much like the older D&D Basic set was. It is designed, however, specifically for the AD&D Game, and uses audio CD disks as a new tool to help novice Dungeon Masters handle the game and create a unique atmosphere during play. As a result, the new AD&D Game's World of Mystara also becomes the product line spearheading the use of audio CDs as a central game feature. The CDs in the World of Mystara products have a dual goal. The World of Mystara will see its first release with the Kingdom of Karameikos. Expected around August 1994 in the U.S.A., this is the first in a series of upcoming boxed sets. Karameikos picks up where the D&D Game's Known World stopped, providing an entire campaign set devoted to what was the Grand Duchy of Karameikos before the Great War in Wrath of Immortals. The historical events, famous people, and notorious places that stood as hallmarks of the D&D Game's Known World are still there, freshened up in their post-war era, and rewritten in proper "advancese". The new campaign set will break new grounds with its exquisite graphic design and a very special care toward the colorful detail and mood of Karameikos. It will offer new insights on the links between the noble families, their coats of arms, their rivalries, and the secret societies thriving in the capital city. Kingdom of Karameikos will definitely set a new pace not only for the new World of Mystara, but for all of TSR's campaign accessories. Don't miss that one! Later this year will follow two audio CD adventures, Hail the Heroes and Night of the Vampire. Design-allowing, the first adventure ties into the first Mystara novel, Dragonlord of Mystara (see novels later in this article) and may unveil a strange artifact hidden in Karameikos. It is thought to have been created by the Hutaakans, a mysterious race of jackal- headed men that disappeared centuries ago. At the time this article was written, Night of the Vampire was taking a group of fearless heroes to an ancient abode. The heroes participate in a masquerade at the old manor-house when the master unexpectedly returns from a long journey. Evidence shows that he is a vampire lord who, as the heroes might soon discover, also has blood ties with King Stephan of Karameikos... The audio CDs provided in these two adventures, as well as the one in the Kingdom of Karameikos campaign setting, offer essentially adventures. What normally had been boxed text for the DM to read to the players is now provided in audio format in these three products. Other elements, such as introductory narratives and sound effects are also included. Late in the year, the popular Almanac series continues despite the shift from the D&D Game to the AD&D Game. The original Almanac provided a summarized compilation of the famous places and people of Mystara, along with a whole year's-worth of new events. These went from miscellaneous, minor happenings to annoy and waylay heroes, to historical milestones keeping the campaign world in perpetual motion. Two such Almanacs have already been published in the past years, with the third one continuing the series into the AD&D Game line. The '94 Almanac is perhaps the product among the new AD&D Game line that will initially remain the most familiar to previous D&D Game players. Although the new World of Mystara does not provide two sets of game statistics, one for AD&D Game players and a second for supporters of the D&D Game, the elements it features will, however, remain mostly unchanged. The Almanac is there to prove it. Of note also is the Red Steel™ Campaign Set due for release in the U.S.A. around November 1994. Although not apparently part of the World of Mystara product line, it has a direct connection with it, very much like the Al Qadim™ setting had with the Forgotten Realms® product line. Red Steel describes a cursed land west of Mystara's Known World, on the far western end of the continent. Red Steel is based upon the unusual setting created in the Princess Ark and Known World Grimoire articles (see the D&D Game's Champions of Mystara earlier). It is a land that is home to an ancient curse and a magical metal. The Red Curse grants wondrous magical powers to people, but unless they protect themselves, the curse also twists them into hideous parodies of their former selves. Fortunately, the magical metal cinnabryl counteracts the worst effects of the curse and allows people to use the magical powers without harm. Unfortunately, cinnabryl is rather rare, and as it is used its magical power gradually depletes. Cinnabryl must be hunted constantly to hold off the detrimental effects of the Red Curse. As cinnabryl's protective magic diminishes, it transforms into red steel. Half the weight of regular steel, red steel is just as strong, and is magical as well. It is in high demand for weapons. The more red steel one has, the more power one gets. Red steel and cinnabryl are the focal points of a campaign- wide power struggle. The Red Steel campaign setting is a savage land blending disparate kingdoms of outcasts who migrated from the Known World in search of power and glory, and native humanoid races of cat- and dog-man knights, shape-changing spider wizards, lizard man and manscorpion warriors, and half-a- dozen more. The land holds a druidic kingdom, swashbucklers, beast-riding knights, and much more. Red Steel also offers an audio CD disk, but unlike the ones in the World of Mystara products, it is specifically geared toward the more sophisticated core of established AD&D Game players. The disc provides an assortment of DM tools designed to enliven a typical game session, including background music suited for a variety of game circumstances, mood music with sound effects, and dramatic narratives and scenes. The History of Mystara in Novels The first-ever novel line for the World of Mystara, written for the original D&D® Game, was the Penhaligon Trilogy, set in the Barony of Penhaligon in the Duchy of Karameikos. The trilogy begins with the story of one orphan girl and ends in a pre-Wrath of the Immortals peril to the whole of Mystara. D&D® Penhaligon Trilogy The Tainted Sword, Book One, D. J. Heinrich: The Penhaligon Trilogy begins when Johauna Menhir, an young orphan from the streets of Specularum, sets out to find Flinn the Mighty, hero of her childhood. She finds instead Flinn the Fallen, Flinn the Fool, who has lost status as a Knight of Penhaligon after being accused of denying mercy to an enemy on the battlefield. As Flinn trains young Johauna to become a squire of Penhaligon, he rediscovers his honor, regains his tainted sword, pursues the dragon Verdilith who had brought about his downfall, and is reinstated into the knighthood. In a final conflict with Verdilith, Flinn falls nobly to his old foe. The Dragon's Tomb, Book Two, D. J. Heinrich: Johauna leaves the funeral pyre of her mentor and love Flinn to track down Verdilith. She follows the beast to his lair and tries to slay him with Flinn's sword Wyrmblight, but the dragon escapes. Returning to Castle Penhaligon, Jo is instated as a squire to Flinn's mentor, the Castellan Sir Graybow. On her first mission, Jo and her companions pursue a terrible artifact that Verdilith and his master, archmage Teryl Auroch, have unleashed upon the world. The artifact is the abaton, a box that drains magic from anything around it. To stop her and gain his revenge, Verdilith, in a polymorphed form, dogs their trail and even joins the party. Jo, discovering the enemy among them, slays Verdilith, but not before the Great Green's master activates the magic-draining abaton and brings Mystara to the brink of destruction. The Fall of Magic, Book Three, D. J. Heinrich: The magic- draining abaton, when activated, becomes a gateway to the world of the abelaats, evil shadow-creatures that have slumbered since their life-blood, magic, was taken from them. Now, with the pouring of magic from Mystara into the abelaat world, the monstrous creatures are awakening en masse and pouring through the abaton in armies that decimate the countryside. With the sword of Flinn at her side, Jo sets out to the abaton, crosses through to the world of the evil abelaats, and takes on their master, Teryl Auroch. She is unknowingly aided by Flinn, who has returned from the place of immortals to gather into himself the essence of each good race of Mystara and thereby become empowered to defend the world from the menace of the abelaats. About the Author: D. J. Heinrich is a pseudonym used in collaboration for the D&D Penhaligon Trilogy. The author of the first two books, Dori Watry, most recently has written a short story for the Tales of Ravenloft anthology. She balances her life as a writer with her work as a product-group leader for TSR's Game Department. Under her purview are lines as dynamic and diverse as the Ravenloft® and Dark Sun® settings. The second author, Kevin Stein, assisted with The Dragon's Tomb and wrote all of The Fall of Magic. As an author, poet, and screenwriter, Kevin Stein has worked on various projects in and out of the gaming industry. He wrote Brothers Majere for the Dragonlance® saga as well as numerous game products for TSR and other companies. The Future of Mystara in Novels In 1994 and 1995, novels about the world of Mystara will branch into two new categories: epic tales for series fantasy saga fans, and shorter books for younger readers. The first in the new line of epic novels is Dragonlord of Mystara, which comes out in July of 1994. It is written for the AD&D® Game. The young reader's series of D&D® novels begins in 1995 with six novels, including The Unicorn Hunt, Rogues to Riches, and the beginning of a novel triad, Pawn's Prevail. The Dragonlord Chronicles by Thorarinn Gunnarsson July 1994 marks the exciting debut of The Dragonlord Chronicles, a brand-new epic fantasy book trilogy. The author, 36-year-old Thorarinn Gunnarsson, jokingly refers to his name as "destined to go down in the annals of science fiction and fantasy as the most consistently and inventively misspelled." Gunnarsson is a native of Iceland who has had previous occupations as a professional opera singer and film actor and producer before embarking on his current career as an established fantasy writer. He presently makes his home in the southwestern United States. Not surprisingly, The Dragonlord Chronicles feature plenty of dragons, but these are not your everyday, run-of-the-mill, huge, dangerous creatures. Huge and dangerous they are, but they are also sentient, highly intelligent creatures with dreams of establishing something better for their kind. The immortal Great One is attempting to organize his dragon brethren into a cohesive force so that, one way or another, they may assume their deserved lofty station in life. This, of course, places them at odds with the humans of Mystara, who have like ambitions for themselves which do not include concern for the status or welfare of dragons. The first book, Dragonlord of Mystara, begins with a perilous nighttime rescue by the Flaemish Highlanders of a female stranger who has been pursued through the rugged mountains by a covey of dragons. Adding to the mystery surrounding the stranger is the fact that she is about to give birth. Semi- retired, one-armed adventurer Sir George Oldyke, the only villager who may be able to understand the stranger's unfamiliar dialect, is summoned to her bedside. Sir George is left alone with her for a short time before the beleaguered, exhausted woman gives birth to a son, then dies. Sir George denies having been able to learn anything. More than a decade and a half pass before we meet young Thelvyn Fox Eyes, the handsome, copper-skinned, dark-haired offspring of the mysterious stranger. The orphaned young man, whose foreign appearance sets him apart from the fair- haired Flaems, has been raised by the villagers, as is their custom, under the watchful eyes of Sir George. Apprenticed to the village smith, Thelvyn is grateful for the villagers' care, but somehow feels his destiny lies elsewhere. When the dragons once more begin to raid villages in the foothills to the north, Sir George organizes a party of adventurers to investigate, and young Thelvyn is enlisted. As the story unfolds, Thelvyn discovers undreamed-of powers and the secret behind a mysterious prophecy that points to a destiny beyond his wildest imagination. The Dragonlord Chronicles comprise an epic fantasy on a scale to be expected from TSR, Inc., the publishers of the highly popular Dragonlance® Saga. Book Two, Dragonking of Mystara, is scheduled for late spring 1995, with the finale, Great One of Mystara, set for winter of 1996. D&D® Young Reader's Books The Unicorn Hunt, Elaine Cunningham: The first book in the new Young Reader's line is the tale of young adventurers on a quest to find one of the most beautiful and elusive creatures of all in Mystara, the unicorn. In addition to a shorter length (280 pages rather than 320) and a larger trim size, The Unicorn Hunt features lots of fast-paced adventure, mystical creatures, exciting battles, and places of wonder and awe, the stuff that made fantasy in the first place. About the Author: Elaine Cunningham has loved stories and songs from a very early age. She started reading folklore and mythology at the age of nine, and her interest has grown ever since. A transplanted New Englander, Elaine lives with her husband and two children in a cat-infested home filled with books and computer stuff. Rogues to Riches, J. Robert King: When two thieves don the armor and clothes of knights, hoping to steal a king's treasure, their troubles only begin. Rogues is a romp that leads northward from Norwold onto the ice to rescue a beautiful princess who may be more than she appears. The text is loaded with slapstick humor, puns, and even some gaming in-jokes. While younger readers will find it entertaining, older readers will see all sorts of silliness going on beneath the surface. About the Author: Despite the fact that his first two novels, Heart of Midnight and Carnival of Fear, were Gothic horror, Rob is not the son of Stephen. As though to distance himself from that association, Rob third book, Rogues, is lighthearted. While awaiting the publication of this book, King has written short stories for Tales of Ravenloft, Realms of Infamy, and the DARK SUN module Forest Maker. Pawn's Prevail, Book One of the Quest Triad, Douglas Niles: The immortals Daliphree and Pusanth have decided to play a game with mortal pawns. One pawn is Princess Danis, born with a silver spoon in her mouth. The other is a farmhand named Holt, born with nothing. As Mystara's mortals cannot interfere directly in the lives of mortals, the game between Daliphree and Pusanth is a very controlled one, indeed. Their pawns seek an artifact, each hoping to find it first, but the evil Nightshade is drawn to the magic item as well, coveting its power. About the Author: Having written three trilogies (Moonshae, Maztica, and Druidhome) for the Forgotten Realms® world, Doug recently turned his attentions to the D&D® Known World with his upcoming Quest Triad. He reread the works of Lloyd Alexander in preparation for writing the triad, seeking a tone both heroic and light. Doug's other credits include The Kinslayer Wars, Flint, the King (coauthored with Mary Kirchoff) and Emperor of Ansalon, all set in the Dragonlance® world. He is currently working on a fantasy trilogy for Ace publishing. Computer Games So far, only two SSI computer games connected with the World of Mystara have been released. Both were created for the D&D Game, although anyone can play then will equal enjoyment. The first game, Strongholds, reflects am unusual aspect of Mystara products where heroes often endeavor to gain a nobility title and eventually build a kingdom. Stronghold allows a player to chose among several types of heroes, fighters, wizards, thieves, and set them up as vassals of a center character. Each starts with a simple tower and strive to build up their dominions, from small shops and taverns, to major castles and arenas. Each building modifies the dominions' economic and military abilities. The player central character attempts to become a "king" and defeat hordes of nasty monsters who will eventually overun the player's kingdom if not dealt with in time. The world where all this takes place is randomly generated and the game's difficulty level can be set by the player. The second release, Fantasy Empires, actually uses the Known World. This is more of an actual war and diplomacy game where up to five players build large-scale armies and attempt to conquer the various nations of the Known World. The players must successfully deal with the Dungeon Master (a critter hunching over the top of the screen!) to build their empires. The DM in this game acts both as a consultant for the players and a referee working to keep the players on their toes. [EOF] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:32:12 GMT From: "Nicolas Hudson" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) >From: Ambreville@aol.com >BTW, the Monk has been included in the 3E rules. It looks very decent and >could be used as the Mystic's closest equivalent in 3E Mystara. It isn't >identical to the OD&D Mystic, but the description is exciting enough >players >probably won't lose much sleep over the translation. And the OD&D mystic was never used much per Mystara in any event. The only substantial canon references were in the modules, and only the Master series at that (I believe). Outside of the modules, not only are mystics almost unknown (aside from Lhamsa in Glantri), information is changed to avoid mentioning them: Dawn of the Emperors makes Ramenhotep, originally a 15th level mystic, a 15th level cleric of the Night Spider; now, if you read the module, such a change wouldn't affect the game much, and makes some degree of sense, as Ramenhotep is a worshipper of the Nigth Spider, but if the Thothi were Entropic worshipping clerics, then they would not have survived the Spell of Obliteration; mysticism is how they avoided that catastrophe. Thus, although the OD&D mystic was certainly an option for Mystara PCs, any change in powers wouldn't affect the NPCs in the slightest, in the Known World at least. "In the Beginning, there was Darkness, but before there was Darkness, there was Frog." - St. Stephen Mr. Nicholas, Oard Extraordinaire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:38:57 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Really Old Stuff!! Woah. I'm impressed by what could have happened. Allston and Dupuis would have had their hands full! I would have loved to see a Princess Ark box, tho. CoM wasn't bad, but it wasn't as comprehensive as I expected. I'd also have loved to have Gazetteers on Wendar and Heldann and Sind and Denagoth, and ... :) The Future history was a bit wierd though. I can't see Rad being corrupted. The Old One seemed to be quite impressed with Rad, and unimpressed with Ixion ("Leave and learn" comes to mind). I don't see the Old One allowing Rad to be a minion of Entropy. Personally I thought that Rad would become an Old One himself! This was very informative though, Bruce! Now, do you have any notes back there on who Gareth is? 8) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:47:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: [MYSTARA] - Please read this!!! First of all, let me clarify a few things. I am posting this message to the MML, MMB, MystaraWorlds & Travelers of Mystara so that I can reach as many Mystara fans as possible. If anyone knows of any other forum to discuss our favorite setting, please let me know! This message is for anyone who enjoys Mystara whether they live in the Pacific Northwest or not… A while back, I posted a suggestion on the MML about organizing a mini-con in the Pacific Northwest dedicated to Mystara. Now, with Bruce Heard’s excellent suggestions about a 3E version of Mystara, I think this is an idea whose time has come. I’m currently trying to organize the event but it’s still in the embryonic stage… I need your help. I’d like to get some sort of support or at least official approval from the WotC & the RPGA, but I can’t do this alone. If you are interested in the future of Mystara, let your voice be heard! Here’s my lastest concept (I’ll apologize in advance for the RAH! RAH! cheerleader tone :-p) After checking around on the MML, MMB, MystaraWorlds & Travelers of Mystara, I’ve found out that there are a lot of us up here in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, & Idaho that are interested in Mystara. What I’m proposing is putting together a small-scale gaming convention devoted exclusively to Mystara. What I envision is having it take place on a Saturday and/or Sunday at the Wizards of the Coast Gaming Center in Seattle, WA. Why *my* hometown? Easy: first of all, Seattle is the most centrally located of the major-cities in the NW (only a few hours away from both Portland & Vancouver). Also, WotC is headquartered here… if we can pull this off in their own backyard (at their own facility, no less!), they’ll see first hand how supportive and loyal we are to Mystara. Here are some of the activities I had in mind: 1. Gaming sessions: This is the heart of any convention. In fact, I’ve even talked to Bruce Heard about the possibilty of getting permission from WotC to set up some 3E scenarios for Mystara (at least on the level of the recent playtesting). I make no promises… but I’m trying! (Thanks for your help, Bruce!) 2. Discussion panels: There’s a lot of hot topics concerning Mystara flying around the net right now – I’m sure we can find a thing or two to get people to discuss in a face-to face format : ) 3. Speakers: Let’s face it, we Mystara supporters are some falt-out old creative people. Just look at all the original work out there! There are scores of sites dedicated to Mystara that have some amazing new material – classes, spells, adventures, etc. Wouldn’t it be great if some of those people put together some presentations? And if we can show folks how serious we are, maybe we can get some more “official” speakers… who knows? Now that I’ve told you what I’d like to set up, tell me what you guys would like to see! C’mon folks, this is a great time to get involved in the future of Mystara! Thanks! Damon Alexander Brown habgyp@yahoo.com ===== If a 'Vegetarian' is someone who eats vegetables, shouldn't 'Humanitarian' be another name for a 'Cannibal'? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:51:36 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [Note: I am not mispelling the word s u b s c r i b e below accidentally. It is like that so the list serving software doesn't kick this message back since it has list commands.] Mystarans, The new list on WotC's servers is now open for business. Some of you have already suubscribed, and do not need to do so again. Everyone else needs to suubscribe themselves to the new list. For various technical reasons I cannot do this for you as a bulk transfer. To suubscribe send e-mail to... listserv@oracle.wizards.com ...with the following command in the body of the e-mail... suubscribe MYSTARA-L [Name] ...where the [Name] is removed and replaced with your name. This includes removing the brackets []. Remove the extra "u" in the command as well. Name must be two different words, such as... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Ron Jeremy ...or... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Dark Knight When you suubscribe you will receive an e-mail message asking for confirmation of you suubscription. This is a security feature. Simply follow its instructions. You will then recieve a confirmation message that you are on. Once suubbed you can then post. The address to post to is... mystara-l@oracle.wizards.com There is no seperate Digest for this list. It is an option for the main list. Everyone that suubscribes is set to normal. Everyone that already suubscribed was reset to normal. To get mail in digest mode, send the following command to the same address... set MYSTARA-L digest That is pretty much all you need to do and know that is different for now. I will be updating the FAQ for the list and should hopefully be posting it tomorrow on my site. I will make an announcement at that point. You do not have to unsuubscribe from the old list. Two weeks from now I will be unsuubbing everyone from it. I will be posting this notice every so often before then to catch new suubscribers. Also, a few of you on this list are also on the Spelljammer list, which I am the admin for as well. Please note that the SJ list is not fully functional yet, and there will be a similar announcement when it is ready. As always, if you have problems, let me know. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:56:10 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Just a Test Just a quick test. Purple monkey dishwasher. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:50:29 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga Hi everyone! I was wondering if anyone has got the adventure Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga. If so, could somebody tell me if it's a good/bad module and why? also, could u tell me the plot of this adventure? Thanx Marco *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:06:41 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 99-10-29 14:20:38 EDT, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: << Well, I don't have the PWAs with me, but combining CoM and Quagmire! I believe that James is referring to the long island near the center of the Western Thanegioth. On DM map 1 in X6, it is the island whose norhtern coastline has the letters "ARPHIP" running along it--a spelling error I never noticed before ;) N'Goro is at the eastern point of Thanegia Island, so i came to the conclusion that it was this island by estimating what would be 2 hexes north and 1 NE on a 72-mile per hex map. On the CoM map, this island is referred to as Kupanua.>> Exactly! Sorry, I should also have mentioned which exact one it was on the Quagmire! map... oops! Note that Kupanua is the name used by the Yav, which is derived from the name used by the karkakara natives (IMC). << While I haven't yet read the history of the Ispan People (which I probably ought to do), isn't Cubia a coastal city in Nithia or Dythestenia, Ylaruam? Why would this be Western Cubia? Or are they unrelated? Or am I just plain confused? :) patrick >> In my history of the Ispans (note: NON-Canon), the distant ancestors of the Ispans were Kwerendans that had settled in what is now Ylaruam. During their migration the Ispans were joined by a number of Ispans that had remained in Ylaruam after the Ylari conquest (these peoples later mostly settled down in Saragon, IIRC; that much is Canon), though a fair portion of the Ispans that settled Cubia Occidental were from such origins... thus the name Cubia appearing so far west... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:10:48 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Entry: Nueva Ispanola Part 1 Note: The computer system will not send the tilde above the "n" in "Ispanola"; just remember that it is there :) Note: As with all things by Mystaros, this is not Canon, just my own stuff... :) Grand (Arch) County of Nueva Ispañola Location: The easternmost isle of the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago in the Sea of Dread, about 650 miles due south of Alfisle in the Minrothad Guilds. Area: 2,240 sq. mi. Population: 33,280, including the capital of Ciudad Florida (2,480) and the towns of Puerto Segundo (1,560) and Puerto Margarita (1,340); Fortaleza Vittoria (Fortress of Victory) accounts for another 1,000 souls. This population figure does not include the several score Thyatian and Minrothian merchants of Puerto Florida, nor the itinerant Nuari pirates or the unknown numbers of Karakara Orcs. Languages: Ispan, plus most town folk speak Thyatian and/or Minrothian; Nuari and Thyatian are spoken in the Nuari Pirate Village. Coinage: Dubloon (gp), Peso (sp), Real (cp); Thyatian and Minrothian coins are accepted at face value, all others are deeply discounted. Government Type: Ruled by the Conde Grande (Arch, or Sovereign Count) advised by the Baronial Council (which includes the three Barons, the Bishop of Vittoria (Vanya), Gregorio the Wizard and the Dons and Doñas (Lords and Ladies) of the seven largest families of the land. Industries: The primary industry of the countryside consists of growing foodstuffs for subsistence and growing coffee, tobacco, sugarcane and cocoa for export (note that farmers use giant boars as dray animals instead of horses or oxen, see below). The extremely rich soil of the isle allows for an extra growing season, which enables both surpluses of food as well as significant exports. The rich waters around the island also provide fish and clams that supplement the Ispan diet (and pearls to export). Puerto Florida has also become a favorite victual station for Thyatian and Minrothian merchants and military heading for Davania and other southern ports. The giant lizards raised on the ranches of the Black Hills (see below) are for domestic use only; none have ever been exported off the isle. Some precious metals are found in the Black Hills, but all such are used by the Count to mint new coins. Description: The Grand County of Nueva Ispañola occupies the northern half of the Isle of Ispañola; the civilized half of the isle is dominated by great plantations owned and run by a small number of aristocratic families. The patrons, as the aristocrats are known keep their peons, or villeins, in a state not unlike slavery; though they are treated far better than the slaves of the continent are they are serfs nonetheless. The aristocrats also tend to keep townhouses in the nearest town; the greatest of the families keep townhouses in the capital as well. Most freemen are found in the three towns or along the coast in the small fishing villages, and live peaceful, if unremarkable lives. The ranches in the Black Hills raise the giant lizards that are used as steeds by the aristocrats. The southern regions of the isle are unsettled and covered in dense jungles, and are dominated by either the Karakara Orcs (in the eastern jungles) or by nature spirits (in the western jungles). Notable Sites: Puerto Florida is the largest town on the island; it is the capital of the county as well as the capital of the local barony. The town is most noted for the citadel of the count, the temple of Protius and the grand marketplace. Puerto Margarita is renown for its beaches and beautiful waters; many aristocrats vacation in this eastern town, consuming large quantities of the native drink, known, of course, as margaritas. Puerto Segundo is a very colorful town, as it is a jumping-off point for adventurers and merchants seeking treasure and adventure in the western islands (though few ever return). The Torre de Gregorio is officially off-limits to anyone not granted license to visit by the count, for the Wizard cherishes his privacy. The Nuari Pirate Village (the name changes with every change in leadership; it is currently known as "Tanokora's Port") is the wildest place on the island, home to several hundred pirates and their families (usually, but not always granted letters of marque by the count). The village is usually half-Nuari; the other residents are a polyglot of all nations and races found on the Sea of Dread. Ancient ruins are said to exist in the center of the western jungles, but none have ever returned from expeditions into the depths of the jungle. Similar legends state that the Karakara Orcs of the isle are ruled by a giant orc that holds his court at an ancient, ruined temple in the eastern jungles. History: The prehistory of the Isle of Ispañola is lost in the howling mists of time, for any civilization that existed here prior to the arrival of the Karakara Orcs was utterly decimated in their wrath. The Karakara are known to have inhabited the isle before the mid-ninth century, when Minrothian merchants accidentally discovered the island. The Minrothians were merchants, not really explorers, and though there was certainly wealth to be had in the isles, they were more interested with finding civilized trading partners, and did not follow up on their discovery. However, in 860 AC an Ispan explorer, one Don Sancho Estaban de la Villa Florida, of the Grand Duchy of Ispañola, followed up on the Minrothian reports, and extensively explored the easternmost isle, which he named Nueva Ispañola in honor of his homeland. Don Sancho followed up his initial expedition with further exploration, both of the Isle of Ispañola and the other Thanegian isles. Eventually, a small settlement of a few hundred souls grew upon the northern shore of Ispañola, and became a revictualling station for explorers of the region. continued... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #472 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.