mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 473 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Entry: Nueva Ispanola Part 2 of 2 Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread [MYSTARA] - Map of Nueva Ispanola [MYSTARA] - Bruce, WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) [MYSTARA] - A request... Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - Ierendi Mentats Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:11:45 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Almanac Entry: Nueva Ispanola Part 2 of 2 These expeditions all occurred during the era known as the "Years of Unrest", a time when the Thyatian Empire was battling rebels throughout their lands, especially in the Grand Duchy of Ispañola. Eventually Thyatian oppression became so great that many Ispan families decided to flee from their home and seek their fortunes elsewhere; they turned to their great explorers for advice, foremost among them Don Sancho. Eventually eight score and eight ships left the grand Duchy under the leadership of Don Sancho; slightly more than 6,000 souls and all their treasures, animals and goods set sail for Nueva Ispañola in 975 AC. 112 ships made the passage and arrived at Puerto Florida one month later. Don Sancho was declared by all the leading families to be the savior of their people, and in the waters at Florida Beach he was declared to be their sovereign and leader, and thus he became Conde Sancho I Esteban de Nueva Ispañola. The first decade was very difficult for the settlers, as they continually fought against the Karakara Orcs as they cleared the jungles and built their plantations. The settlement was made even more difficult when it was discovered that horses and oxen did not long survive settlement upon the isle; some native disease killed all such beasts of burden within two years. However, the Ispans were able to domesticate the giant boars the Karakara used as steeds. These beasts were used both for plantation labor as well as for riding until the discovery of the giant lizards of the Black Hills (a beast related to the giant tuatara lizard, only far less vicious and more easily trained). The colonists also made contact with the native Merfolk and formed an alliance with the Kingdom of Twaelar that lasts to this day. By 900 AC the colony was well established and had domesticated both the giant boar and the giant lizard. Puerto Segundo was founded in 910, and Puerto Margarita in 915; the Western and Eastern Baronies were formally organized in 940, with the leaders of the greatest of the local aristocratic families becoming barons. [Baronia Ispaña is held by the Count, though it is usually granted into the hands of the Count's heir when he (or she) reaches 21 years of age.] Trade with Minrothad picked up in the 950's, which helped spur the growth of the plantations further into the jungles until the current border was reached in the 970's. The only real threat to the sovereignty of Nueva Ispañola came in 988 AC, when Emperor Thincol of Thyatis began his settlement program in Davania; initially he felt it would be simpler to conquer Nueva Ispañola than to deal with the proud Ispans. However his magist Demetrion (correctly) felt that the Twaelar would not look kindly upon any such invasion, and successfully dissuaded the Emperor from any such action (similar discussions with the Minrothian ambassador also affected his decision). Today there are Thyatian, Minrothian and Twaelar consulates in Puerto Florida, while the current count, Conde Grande Enrico II Sancho de Nueva Ispañola, mulls over offers of official Imperial Thyatian status (as an Archduke) versus further exploration and conquest in the Thanegioth Archipelago. Important Figures: Conde Grande Enrico II Sancho de Nueva Ispañola (widower); Baroña Isabella Enrico de Ispaña (daughter, eldest child and heir of Count Enrico); Don Sancho Enrico de Puerto Florida (Lord of Puerto Florida, Isabella's younger brother); Doña Marcela Vittoria de Fortaleza Vittoria (Bishop of Vittoria (Vanya), Governor of the Fortress of Victory, and rumored mistress of the Conde Grande); Baron Xavier Gaspar de Occidental (Baron of the West); Baron Diego Yago de Oriental (Baron of the East); Magister Gregorio, Don del Sur (Court Magist and semi-autonomous Lord of the South); Tanokora Nuar (current "leader" of the Nuari Pirates). Flora & Fauna: The civilized portion of the isle is well patrolled, thus few non-domesticated creatures will be encountered. However, there are still the rare raids by the giant boar mounted Karakara on the verge of the eastern jungles; there is also the rare sea raid by the various Thanegian natives from the west. Domesticated beasts include the giant boar (nearly as large as an ox, though as docile as one) and the giant lizard (slightly longer than a horse, though somewhat lower to the ground). Chickens, pigs and dogs abound; though cats are rare outside the cities. A few mountain lions are still found in the Black Hills, though the hills are otherwise as tame as the farmlands. The jungles are another matter altogether. Faerie creatures, including pixies, sprites and treants, dominate the western jungle; they are inimical to any human intrusions, though they tend not to be vicious. The residents of the eastern jungles, however, are a thoroughly vile and despicable breed; the Karakara Orcs of Nueva Ispañola are cannibals (eating the flesh of their own as well as of humans and other sentients). The Karakara Orcs ride giant war boars and keep domesticated normal boars. The jungles are otherwise home only to natural beasts, such as panthers, snakes, lizards (normal and giant) and spiders (normal and giant), as well as no small number of deadly plants. There are no dragons on the isle, though sea serpents are said to swim in the great southern bay. Note that there are no horses or cattle on the island, as all such creatures invariably die after more than one year on the island (short term exposure of a month or two is not quite as deadly). End! Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:13:18 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 99-10-29 10:53:48 EDT, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: << BTW, I really liked your "History of the Ispan People". Shane >> Thanks! I hope you find the Almanac entry for Nueva Ispanola as useful and enjoyable... hopefully I'll get around to describing Cubia Occidental in a similar fashion in the next week or so... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:14:18 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Map of Nueva Ispanola For those interested I will be putting the map of Nueva Ispanola on my website sometime this weekend, when time permits... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:13:56 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bruce, WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! >>All done! Okay -- we can chuck a lot of this stuff, but it was fun seeing >>what we were planning... nah, "planning" is too strong a term here, I'd say >>- -- what our letter to Santa read like back in 1991. :D [Bruce Heard] Nay, you don't give yourself enough credit, sir! Mr. Heard, would it be too ambitious of me to propose that the Mystara Mailing List finish your un-written Mystara materials? Certainly, we have the resources; it would simply (perhaps that is too strong a word) be a matter of collaborating and putting some hard work into this stuff. Your conceptions are too good to never see realized; I would at this point propose the formation of design teams under your ultimate authority (perhaps reviewing the final products) to write these pieces and give Mystara what she should have long-since had. In fact, a fellow on the Internet has ALREADY written something of a Blackmoor GAZ; how difficult would bulking that one up with the extras intended for your fabled boxed set be? I'll list the possibilities that were "entirely" unwritten, and never released. Some have been partially written for the list by either Mr. Heard or others. We can therefore count on having a "base" of writings from which to start, and not needing to do everything from absolute scratch. Here's that list (sorry about the long snippet, guys, but this might perhaps be worth it; separating those which were produced from those which weren't): PAS1 — The Heldannic Knights, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This is a successor to the old D&D® Gazetteer series. This new supplement focuses on the Heldann Freeholds and the chaotic knighthood that rules the nation. The Heldannic Knights have been long time foes of the Princess Ark. Includes an in-depth look at an order of knights in the D&D® Game, an expanded background and new powers for Clerics and Avengers. PAA1 — The Crown of Synn: This adventure module is for use with the Princess Ark boxed set. The player characters are part of a landing party in the evil land of Glantri. They are to retrieve the Crown of Synn, an instrument of Glantrian hegemony in the Known World and return to the ship. The ultimate plan is to provoke Synn, Queen of Darkness and long-time rival of the Princess Ark, to risk an attack against the fabled ship and perhaps to meet her demise. DCr1 — Fantasy Cities™ #1, Specularum AC 1011: This new supplement provides a new look at the classic city of the D&D® Game, during the game year of 1011 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical information, etc. We may develop a link with the electronic games based upon Karameikos. Blackmoor Reborn Adventures in Blackmoor™ Boxed Set: This campaign set allows the return of the Blackmoor civilization in the Known World. A bit of history: Blackmoor destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World. Blackmoor re-establishes itself on the Known World, after being copiously trashed by their Immortal (ex)- patrons. Blackmoor distinguishes itself from the traditional fantasy genre because of modern technology equipment that keeps showing up in their setting. These are rare, poorly understood items that become very dangerous in the wrong hands. In a nutshell, Blackmoor qualifies as "dark-age medieval fantasy with technology"! BMa1 — Blackmoor #1 of 2, The Egg of Coot: This adventure takes traditional player characters from the usual Known World to the chaotic Land of Blackmoor. They discover the secret and dark wonders of Blackmoor and realize the risks they pose to their way of life. They must shut down one of the known sources of technology—the strange and mysterious Egg of Coot. But it is indeed a deadly place. BMa2 — Blackmoor #2 of 2, The Doomsday Rod: An adventure for native Blackmoor characters. These adventurers hear of a secret weapons cache forgotten by the powerful entities of their land. Contrary to the wisdom of characters in the traditional Known World setting, these fellows want these lethal contraptions to fulfill their dreams of power! The player characters are allowed to get their hands on the deadly weapons, but in so doing trigger a doomsday machine. The characters must use (and hopefully deplete) their newly acquired equipment to destroy the frightening machine. A typical shoot'em up escapade for gun powder-crazed players! PAS2 — The Winds of Sind, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: Focuses on the Kingdom of Sind. It details this vast realm of gurus, beggars, and wealthy maharajahs. A common port of call for the Princess Ark lies in the city of Jahore, Pearl of Putnabad. The captain of the Princess Ark, Haldemar, narrates his visit of Sind. DCr2 — Fantasy Cities™ #2, Thyatis AC 1012: This supplement provides a new look at the ancient Imperial City, during the game year of 1012 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical information, etc. RSa1 — Red Steel #1 of 2, The Rif-Raf Barons: This adventure brings player characters from the traditional Known World to the Savage Coast. They have been hired to seek valuable merchandise from a local baron, and ship it back to a Minrothad Guild merchant prince. They are authorized to buy the secret merchandise with weaponry that could allow the baron to crush a rebellion. Will they side with their employer? Will they turn to the insurgents? Will they listen to rival barons? RSa2 — Red Steel #2 of 2, The Slagovich Conspiracy: The wealthy Hierarch of Slagovich dreams of becoming a greater king and is plotting to have various rif-raf barons marry his sisters. But the rebels are watching and plan mischief of their own. The player characters are hired to escort the youngest sister safely across the Gulf of Hule to one of the baronies. The Hierarch plans to have the barons assassinated later and seize power for himself in the name of Greater Slagovich. The plot thickens when the PCs discover the Slagovich Maidens are not the true sister of the Hierarch either. They are impostors serving The Master, Ruler of Hule. PAS3 — The Swords of Wendar, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This supplement focuses on the Kingdom of Wendar, city-building elves. It details its people, their history and their land. Elven magic, architecture and engineering skills are revealed. Haldemar narrates his journey across Wendar and his discoveries. DCr3 — Fantasy Cities™, Ylaruam AC 1013: This supplement provides a look at the Fabled City of the Desert, Jewel of Al Kalim, during the game year of 1013 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player characters, historical info, etc. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:57:05 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie > Isn't there a Lord of the Rings movie in the making? > When does it come out? I heard that their was from some friends, but I don't bother to check into things, sorry! Their is a hobbitt movie by the way, but it is a cartoon. Stewart 3 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:12:58 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie Arwen is to have a bigger part > > than in the Novel (but she is supposed to wield a sword!!!! (arghhh , this a > > crime against the original story...)), and there would be no Tom bombadil in > > the first episod (i wonder how they would escape the Wraith in the > > galgal...). Actually I sorda of like the change in Arwen, But NO Tom Bombadil!!! That makes me mad, aw well something is better than nothing (most of the time anyway). Stewart 3 - ---"Does the sun not shine even though the skies are laced in clouds?"--- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:12:34 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish Yes, Gufetir is really on the map. Its north of Eagret and Afass. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Patrick Sullivan To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Guf Fish > This is good--i like it. I don't have DotE with me--is Gufetir really on > the map? > patrick > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:24:20 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) >Easter Mysticism is Chi healing, and shattering stone walls >by vibrating hands. Mystic talents come about by fusing body >and mind over YEARS of practice, not because you happened to >be born with a gift. Those who happen to be born with a gift are wild talents. True psionicists indeed spend years of practice. Personally, if I was using the OD&D rules I would just stick with the Mystic class - you don't really need anything else. As I'm using the AD&D rules, I would use the existing psionicist class, if only to save myself the hassle of trying to convert the mystic class over. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:34:30 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - re: D&D movie > Actually, Sean Bean has been cast to play Boromir. He's the guy who was the bad > guy Janus on the James Bond movie "GoldenEye". Rumor holds, but it's not > confirmed, that Faramir, his brother, may be played by Ethan Hawke. > > As for Sean Connery, I'm sorry, but he is totally wrong for the part of Gandalf. > He'd probably be a better Denenthor, (Faramir and Boromir's father) although I > favor Patrick Stewart myself for that role. Yeah I'm afraid he dosn't fit the the bill for a wizard but Denethor or maybe Theoden(although Connery isn't as frail as Theoden should be) . Who will be playing Aragorn/Strider does any one know ? and one last thing, I personally cannot wait to see what the Ring Wraiths will look like! Stewart 3 - ---"Does the sun not shine even though the skies are laced in clouds?"--- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:33:29 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) >I almost posted this very idea (that psionics are >simply limited to the areas of the Red Curse), but I >shot it down in my own mind since the Orc's Head >Peninsula -- which is explicitly psionic according to >the OHP Sourcebook -- doesn't have a Legacy region >(according to the map of Legacy regions in the SC >Campaign Setting). Therefore, if psionics are tied to >the Red Curse, I couldn't think of a reason how the >inhabitants of that peninsula would be psionic if they >don't have Legacies. Well, just because the Red Curse triggered the phenomenon doesnt mean that those outside the curse region don't have psionics. I assume that first of all wild talents turned up in the Curse area, and were studied by the local scholars - some of whom may have become the first true psionicists. Once the technique has been sorted out, maybe it could spread elsewhere. But IMC, it hasn't. Psionics just does not, to me, fit well into the Known World. It's not mentioned in any Gazetteers, it's not needed for anything, so why bother. However, the concept of psionics seems quite appropriate, IMC, to the araneas of Herath. There isn't a great deal written about them and their powers, and though they are primarily mages, psionics does not seem inappropriate to their character. It adds something to them, in my opinion. Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:42:14 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) > No i am sure i read that Arwen was to wield a sword (heresy!!!!). > As for the part they would skip i wonder how they gonna explain to the > audience where the Hobbits got their Dunadan blades....which incidently > lead them to "kill" the Witch King. (I know there is a debate regarding > who killed the king of Angmar but....) > Well they could either have a no encounter Tom Bombadil (they hear him but he is gone before they get up/out), they could have a peaceful trek through the forest, and last but not least they could not include or have them go around the forest. Stewart 3 - ---"Does the sun not shine even though the skies are laced in clouds?"--- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:35:31 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: [MYSTARA] - A request... I remember a couple years ago Bruce and perhaps others posted an overview of the old TSR people who had worked on Mystara and where they are now. If someone still has those posts, I think the list would benefit from seeing an overview of where all the founders of Mystara are now, particularly as we are seriously considering attempting to fill those shoes with the 3E conversion. I know Ann Dupuis occasionally shows up on the list, and it would seem that she, at the very least, would be another excellent resource in expanding Mystara :~) Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:45:19 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) > And the OD&D mystic was never used much per Mystara in any event... > Thus, although the OD&D mystic was certainly an option for Mystara PCs, >any change in powers wouldn't affect the NPCs in the slightest, in the Known >World at least. Actually, Champions of Mystara detailed (albeit briefly) six major Mystic Orders in Sind and at least imply that many more exist. One of the main characters of the Almanacs was a Sindhi Shehid mystic named, IIRC, Anand Brishnapur (or was it Sitara Rohini? or something totally different?). He (the mystic) was one of the first people to receive visions from Gareth. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:49:27 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past Were these two ever released? Or their sequels? I know that Son of Dawn and Rogues to Riches were both published under the First Quest label, but were these? >D&D® Young Reader's Books: >The Unicorn Hunt >Pawn's Prevail (and it's planned sequels) If so, do they have much information specific to Mystara? Are they worth picking up? Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:54:50 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) I have heard conflicting reports on whether or not Psionics will be included in 3E. My basic understanding is that psionics will not be covered in the initial release, but may be added at some later date in an extra supplement. If there will be no Psionics rules for 3E for the first few years, then this seems like a good excuse to simply make a ruling that there are no psionics in 3E Mystara, or, at the very most, are simply an optional rule. After all, we need to provide rules for anything in 3E Mystara that is not yet covered by the rulebooks, and we seem to have at least a fairly strong concensus that Psionics don't really belong on Mystara (they were even removed from the SC on-line supplement, one of the only significant differences). Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:06:12 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ierendi Mentats I was toying with this idea to adapt White Island into something more deceiving. My idea is that there is a cult of pscionicist on White Island called Mentats. They are able to combine their powers into a single force. This makes them fairly powerful. Others pscionicists will be "touched" by them and they will somehow desire to find the source that is haunting them. The special properties of White Island affect only non-pscionists. Non psionists will eventually become rather insane. Normal pscionists are not affected by this bizarre effect on the island. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:58:37 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) At Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:54:28 -0700 (PDT), Shane Henry wrote: > >The emerging consensus seems to be that psionics are >not present on, and are alien to, Mystara (and the >rest of Mystara's multiverse as well?). I assure you that there have been non-canon efforts to introduce psionics in Mystaraspace. I have written a pretty detailed history of a race of psionics living in one of Mystaraspace planets, so as you can see, there is room for psionics in Mystara (at least IMHO). They cannot be originary of Mystara itself though, given the historical background of Mystara. >I agree that, >since magic is the main focus of Mystara, and since >OD&D Mystara didn't have psionics, that psionics >should not be a significant part of 3E Mystara. >However, there *are* a few canon references to >Mystaran psionics that need to be explained before I >personally can support a total absence of psionics in >the canon 3E conversion: >a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook (available free >at WotC's site) includes rules for psionic characters. OPTIONAL RULES is the key point here. One thing is allowing psionics originary of some Mystara regions in the campaign, another is providing a sound background for the existance of these psi characters. >b) There's apparently an explanation (in "Mark of >Amber"?) of how mind flayers (AKA illithids), which >are the ultimate psionic creature, came to dwell on >Mystara. Uhmm. ok I have Mark of Amber (purchased for 3 bucks at Margareth Weis's hobby store) but I admit I haven't read thru it exstensively. I have seen the illithid in Etienne's tomb, but frankly I have not understood the reason of his presence there. It is a BLATANT way to translate D&D Mystara into AD&D terms, and in this case translating an OD&D monster (neh-thalgghu) with the closest AD&D monster (mind-flayer). I don't think this is the way to do a translation from a game system to another. And frankly I am at a loss here, since I believe the AD&D Mystara Monstrous Compendium had the AD&D stats for the Brain Collector (IIRC mind you, I don't have it), so why the authors didn't use that?? >c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are >psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. I haven't seen any references to kenkus in any Mystaran product, but then I have not many AD&D Mystara products. However, since kenkus are oriental creatures and there have never been Mystaran products for oriental settings (besides Ethengar, but there are no kenkus there), I wonder where you saw that reference.. :) >Anyway, if the above examples are indeed canon, then >instead of saying that there are *no* psionics on >Mystara, I'd prefer that we simply say that psionic >beings are even rarer on Mystara than they are in >other settings. In other words, on Mystara, psionics >are *practically*, though not *absolutely*, >nonexistant I for one am not against psionics in Mystara, PROVIDED they have a sound background to explain WHY NOBODY NOTICED THEM so far. One explanation could be that the only psionicists in Mystara are the Alphatians, and the cause of this could be their alien nature. This way you can have psi characters roaming around Mystara masking their real powers with the obvious excuse: "What? Strange powers? What are u babbling about, you ignorant! Don't u recognize the typical Alphatian magics!" (obviously Alphatians know they exist, but I don't think non-Alphatians know much about them, so they could pass as strange Alphatian wizards..) Alternatively, you can use the "Superman effect": once the Alphatians have been bathed by the red sun of the Hollow World, some of them have started exhibiting strange psichic powers and the first psionic schools have been founded in the floating continent of Alphatia. From there, they can travel thru the Hollow World and the outer world to adventure. :) Another theory: psionic powers require immense concentration and great conscience of one's psychic patterns. Such intimate connection between body and mind has so far only be attained by the masters of some oriental cloisters (Ochalea or MOrient, if u support that project) and they cannot be acquired easily by outsiders since it takes great devotion and a great deal of time to learn how to master one's mind (approx. 15+ years of studies and meditation). This way it's explained why THERE ARE psionicists in Mystara but they are not widely known nor spread. On a similar note, I have allowed Japanese rakastas from Bellayne, just contained them to the nomadic tribes that roam the Bellaynish grasslands. They can be descended from Myoshima a long time ago and remained loyal to their savage ways, breeding feliquines as mounts and now travel like bushi or samurai to serve the more civilized Bellayne citizens. It's not that far fetched IMO. It's just a matter of combining different but interesting scenarios. PS for Bruce: did u refer to Tim Beach when u said "the guy who took charge of Mystara conversion to AD&D"? >(I'm not sure if this is a feature of just >the planet and moons of Mystara, or if it applies to >all of the planets and planes of Mystara's multiverse, As I said before, I have written something interesting (I think) about a nation of psionics living in the same planet (one of Uranus'/Hel's moons) with hordes of neogi in the far reaches of Mystaraspace. If anyone's interested let me know (this is all part of the Mystaraspace working group, that consists of me and Haavard, basically... hi Haavard! ;)). DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:05:10 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) At Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:57:06 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >> What do you think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at the >Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to Mystara's multiverse? > >No connection with Spelljammer; it belongs to another dimension and so is >irrelevant to Mystara. Perhaps some links with Planescape -- these are DM >options I would think. Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, I reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with Spelljammer more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to understand..) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #473 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 474 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1-5] (??) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] Chronomancy (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Brain Collecting) Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1-5] (??) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) SpellJammer (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:36:05 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] At Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:03 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >Tentative 1993 Plan [Can you say Kablooey!? BH.] Kablooey! ;p > Princess Ark™ Boxed Set: This set describes the Princess Ark ship and >life aboard. Players get to play either crew members under the authority of >the various heroes from the Princess Ark series (see Haldemar in the Heroes & >Villains section in this Reference Guide), or become the commanding officers >at higher levels. Includes a summary of Haldemar's ship log (from DRAGON® >Magazine), an overview of the Known World in AC 1010, and many adventures for >all levels of play. The Princess Ark should also mark the beginning of a new >series of accessories continuing the old Gazetteers' task of exploring the >Known World (see next). I see this has been published at least. It was really a wonderful piece of artwork, Bruce, kudos to you and your contributors. anyway, one thing got me wondering: since the Heldannic Knights gaz was scheduled for 1993 and Sind's gaz for 1994, how is that there is a great deal of info on Sind and the Serpent Peninsula (mini gazetteers we can say) in the Princess Ark Champions of Mystara boxed set, and no single word on the Heldannic lands? > PAS1 — The Heldannic Knights, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This is a >successor to the old D&D® Gazetteer series. This new supplement focuses on >the Heldann Freeholds and the chaotic knighthood that rules the nation. The >Heldannic Knights have been long time foes of the Princess Ark. Includes an >in-depth look at an order of knights in the D&D® Game, an expanded background >and new powers for Clerics and Avengers. New powers for clerics and avengers, that I suspected from the very beginning! It's a pity u didn't edit those! > PAA1 — The Crown of Synn: This adventure module is for use with the >Princess Ark boxed set. The player characters are part of a landing party in >the evil land of Glantri. They are to retrieve the Crown of Synn, an >instrument of Glantrian hegemony in the Known World and return to the ship. >The ultimate plan is to provoke Synn, Queen of Darkness and long-time rival >of the Princess Ark, to risk an attack against the fabled ship and perhaps to >meet her demise. Did u plan this adventure at some level or was it just an idea that popped up in your mind? Anyway, did u really wanted to kill off Synn just one year after the end of the Great War?.. or did the module take place in a far future? > DCr1 — Fantasy Cities™ #1, Specularum AC 1011: This new supplement >provides a new look at the classic city of the D&D® Game, during the game >year of 1011 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player >characters, historical information, etc. We may develop a link with the >electronic games based upon Karameikos. uhmm... dunno if these City mini gazetteers could have been that useful. Sure, we would have bought them, but I don't think that a DM really needs so much information about ONE SINGLE city to run a campaign.. :) > Champions' DM Screen: This replaces the old AC7 Master Player's Screen >(9156). This eight panel screen features a unique piece of art on one side >(or a huge DUNGEON & DRAGONS logo), and useful charts on the inside. The >product is packaged in a 4p disposable paper cover. I don't think it would have been that useful considering Rules Cyclopedia didn't introduce many new rules and old AC7 stuffed in the Master Set was good enough. > AC1011 D&D® Almanac: This yearly Christmas item continues to expand the >historical data of the Known and Hollow World settings. This supplement >provides global game events for the Game Year of AC 1011 (one year after the >Wrath of the Immortals). This I am glad u were able to finish and publish! :) >Tentative 1994 Plan [Where fiction did NOT meet w/reality... BH.] > >Blackmoor Reborn > > Adventures in Blackmoor™ Boxed Set: This campaign set allows the return >of the Blackmoor civilization in the Known World. A bit of history: Blackmoor >destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World >sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally >upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World. >Blackmoor re-establishes itself on the Known World, after being copiously >trashed by their Immortal (ex)- patrons. Blackmoor distinguishes itself from >the traditional fantasy genre because of modern technology equipment that >keeps showing up in their setting. These are rare, poorly understood items >that become very dangerous in the wrong hands. In a nutshell, Blackmoor >qualifies as "dark-age medieval fantasy with technology"! THIS is a real SHOCK to me! DId u really intend to bring back Blackmoor from the ashes? I didn't understand this: did u want to create a campaign back in Mystara's old days when Blackmoor was still alive (sort of Netheril in FR) or did u plan a FAR FUTURE campaign, where Blackmoor tech resurfaces in Mystara and we have magic in the west and technology in the east, with Davania being the hotbed between these two cultures? Or was it the usual Time traveling campaign à la DA1-4 adventures? >1995 — Red Steel > > Red Steel, Campaign Boxed Set: Our tentative plan for '95 includes the >development of the Savage Coast, west of the Known World. This region was >colonized by the more disreputable and ruthless people of the Known World: >criminals, unscrupulous adventurers, and pawns of Entropy on a quest for >power and wealth. Ignored by their Known World cousins, the conquerors forged >new empires, unbound by the laws or philosophies of civilization. > There, they discovered Red Steel, a very precious but poisonous metal >that provides special powers, but also can kill if improperly handled. Red >Steel affects everyone and everything there, from the kingdoms' economies to >their philosophies. > The result is a setting where wars and treachery are as common as >dragons in the uplands. Magic, science, or common wealth are a thing of the >past, rarities in this violent world. Only ferocious rivalries now remain, >opposing the Dark Kingdoms to the native rebels of the Savage Coast. Well, this was basically done with the Red Steel boxed set and the Savage Coast campaign supplements. Funny that TSR actually promoted these unknown products for this unknown setting rather then continuing exploiting Mystara trademark. And they doomed Savage Coast by producing boxed sets with jewel cased Cds, which are just too expensive (even though I must say I liked these CDs very much). > PAS3 — The Swords of Wendar, Princess Ark™ Gazetteer: This supplement >focuses on the Kingdom of Wendar, city-building elves. It details its people, >their history and their land. Elven magic, architecture and engineering >skills are revealed. Haldemar narrates his journey across Wendar and his >discoveries. This is strange: you planned a gaz on an unknown and ignored country like Wendar and didn't promote a Hule gazetteer instead, also knowing the fact that Hule was much more important (politically speaking)? >All done! Okay -- we can chuck a lot of this stuff, but it was fun seeing >what we were planning... nah, "planning" is too strong a term here, I'd say >- -- what our letter to Santa read like back in 1991. :D Well, this was incredibly interesting Bruce. Did this stuff belong to the previously mentioned Mystara KW boxed set or what? I have seen there is an incomplete summary with page numbers in the first part of your mails, so this prompted me this question. It seems to me you ripped here and there parts of this product, as if you still had hopes to have it published one day... am I right here? ;) Whatever the truth, thanks for having shared this behind the scenes information with us. :) Marco DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:21:54 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Understandable. However, it is unknown if chi is unrelated to "pscionics". It is understood by those that can manipulate chi (or correctly written as qigong in Chinese pinyin) can acomplish amazing feets and manipulation of natural energy. However, this manipulation is triggered by the mind. The qigong has very ways it is used in martial arts, mysticism, religion, medicine, and culture. Pscionics are a bunch of powers collectively batched together. Some of the powers can be verified as to their existance, while other powers could be plain fiction. - -- On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:59:18 SteelAngel wrote: >> is that psionics can be used to represent >> eastern type mysticism which could easily fit into various >regions of >> Mystara. > >Mysticism and Psionics are different though. Psionics is >things like Pyrokenisis, and Telemechanics. > >Easter Mysticism is Chi healing, and shattering stone walls >by vibrating hands. Mystic talents come about by fusing body >and mind over YEARS of practice, not because you happened to >be born with a gift. > > >Ethan > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:25:08 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] > > DCr1 - Fantasy CitiesT #1, Specularum AC 1011: This new supplement > >provides a new look at the classic city of the D&D® Game, during the game > >year of 1011 AC. Includes street maps, building layouts, non player > >characters, historical information, etc. We may develop a link with the > >electronic games based upon Karameikos. > > uhmm... dunno if these City mini gazetteers could have been that useful. > Sure, we would have bought them, but I don't think that a DM really needs > so much information about ONE SINGLE city to run a campaign.. :) Oh I totally disagree. Look at how big the Greyhawk City set was, and how big the...um...the big one in FR...Waterdeep! Look at how those are detailed and how useful they are. They're great sets! I would have loved some in depth looks at cities! > >Tentative 1994 Plan [Where fiction did NOT meet w/reality... BH.] > > > >Blackmoor Reborn > > > > Adventures in BlackmoorT Boxed Set: This campaign set allows the return > >of the Blackmoor civilization in the Known World. A bit of history: > Blackmoor > >destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World > >sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally > >upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World. > >Blackmoor re-establishes itself on the Known World, after being copiously > >trashed by their Immortal (ex)- patrons. Blackmoor distinguishes itself from > >the traditional fantasy genre because of modern technology equipment that > >keeps showing up in their setting. These are rare, poorly understood items > >that become very dangerous in the wrong hands. In a nutshell, Blackmoor > >qualifies as "dark-age medieval fantasy with technology"! > > THIS is a real SHOCK to me! DId u really intend to bring back Blackmoor > from the ashes? I didn't understand this: did u want to create a campaign > back in Mystara's old days when Blackmoor was still alive (sort of Netheril > in FR) or did u plan a FAR FUTURE campaign, where Blackmoor tech resurfaces > in Mystara and we have magic in the west and technology in the east, with > Davania being the hotbed between these two cultures? Or was it the usual > Time traveling campaign à la DA1-4 adventures? Yeah, a shock to me too! Wow. > > PAS3 - The Swords of Wendar, Princess ArkT Gazetteer: This supplement > >focuses on the Kingdom of Wendar, city-building elves. It details its > people, > >their history and their land. Elven magic, architecture and engineering > >skills are revealed. Haldemar narrates his journey across Wendar and his > >discoveries. > > This is strange: you planned a gaz on an unknown and ignored country like > Wendar and didn't promote a Hule gazetteer instead, also knowing the fact > that Hule was much more important (politically speaking)? Personally, I've always felt that Bruce likes Wendar for some reason. I'm not sure why, and I could be wrong...just a feeling I get... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:30:00 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) I just wanted to comment on the psionic system itself. I think psionics is a really great optional additional, but I think the rules strongly need to be revised. I would like the pscionic powers to work similar to the magical system of D&D3 and have the same resolution system. The acquisition of powers and regeneration of PSPs can be unique to psionics, but the overall system should be balanced. IMC, we have one psionicist. Everyone is roughly around 3rd level. The psionicist in our group was able to single-handedly attack a band of gnolls and survive. He managed to defeat the leader and several gnolls before the fled for reinforcements. Any other character could not accomplish this feat. Also, we had a cleric that felt rather useless. His character's role skald and he saw himself as a translater and diviner for the party. However the psionicist stepped in with another power and was able to fullfill the same roles, rendering the cleric useless. The pscionicist has too many powers too rapidly and can replenish those powers quickly. Also the powers are inconsist with the spell system used by clerics and mages (now one system in D&D3E) HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:35:59 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) I think that Mystara has room for pscionics. In the campaign, people really do not realize that a person is using pscionics, cleric spells, or magic spells. The just know that the person has "extrodinary" powers. Whose the say that a mage in our histories past was not indeed a pscioncist himself. No one understood these powers, so the claimed he was a "warlock", a "sorcerer", or perhaps he received the powers from a "god". My only concern is that the D&D3E unified the spell system. I think the pscionic powers should be unified under this system. - -- On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:27:42 Shane Henry wrote: >--- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >> Argh... Let me put it this way... :o) >> >> I consider OD&D Mystara as "canon" Mystara. 2E >> Mystara was an ill-fated >> attempt at converting it and it failed. > > > >> I think psionics are right out of Mystara, or at >> least should remain merely >> an option for those DM's who'd have a brain seizure >> if they didn't have them! > >OK, OK, I cry "uncle!" ;oD. > >This >well-explained-straight-from-the-mouth-of-the-Mystara-guru-behind-the-scenes >look into the misdevelopment of Mystara is about the >only thing that could've made me a total convert to >the canonicity of a psionics ban on Mystara. Since I'm >a real stickler for canon, you're one of the few >people from whom I would accept an "overruling" of >published material (even 2E material). I now firmly >believe that canon 3E Mystara should explicitly >exclude psionics, and that Mystara was never really >meant to have psionics (and that Bellaynians don't >speak Japanese ;-)). > [snip unrelated discussion] HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:38:32 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - Ann Dupuis I saw Ann at a convention called Total Confusion last February; apparantly, she's still in Massachusetts and working on her new game system (FUDGE?)- the one that doesn't use dice. She mentioned something about wanting to get the rights for Mystara and porting it to the FUDGE system so that the world could be further expanded, but knowing that she'll never have the funds with which to do so. But I make no claim as to the accuracy of this reference, it was many months ago, so I may be slightly mistaken. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:40:46 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > >b) There's apparently an explanation (in "Mark of > >Amber"?) of how mind flayers (AKA illithids), which > >are the ultimate psionic creature, came to dwell on > >Mystara. > > Uhmm. ok I have Mark of Amber (purchased for 3 bucks at Margareth Weis's > hobby store) but I admit I haven't read thru it exstensively. I have seen > the illithid in Etienne's tomb, but frankly I have not understood the > reason of his presence there. It is a BLATANT way to translate D&D Mystara > into AD&D terms, and in this case translating an OD&D monster > (neh-thalgghu) with the closest AD&D monster (mind-flayer). I don't think > this is the way to do a translation from a game system to another. And > frankly I am at a loss here, since I believe the AD&D Mystara Monstrous > Compendium had the AD&D stats for the Brain Collector (IIRC mind you, I > don't have it), so why the authors didn't use that I don't think it had anything to do with the Brain Collector, which was used in Tale of the Comet and one or two other products. The mind flayer was an ally of "Hazelthorn" the reincarnated Halzunthram. Why they used a rakshasha and a mind flayer, without any nifty explanations, is beyond me. They could have drawn some interesting connections, in my opinion, or made use of more appropriate monsters. They were clumsy. I like to think of it as a bunch of elitist fellows overlooking D&D, and figuring they were bringing their vast improvements over to the poor Mystara setting, only to have themselves look incredibly foolish in the process. Again, I'm not saying psionics, flayers, and rakshasas have NO place in Mystara. But all three could use some explanation, and would benefit from it. > >c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are > >psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. > > I haven't seen any references to kenkus in any Mystaran product, but then I > have not many AD&D Mystara products. However, since kenkus are oriental > creatures and there have never been Mystaran products for oriental settings > (besides Ethengar, but there are no kenkus there), I wonder where you saw > that reference.. :) I could have sworn there was one of those Chinese unicorns in a Known World Grimoire. Aren't they psionic? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:42:09 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) I think these comments are seem a little hostile. I hope this message board does not become discouraging. I've noticed other comments before that seemed like an attack towards Bruce. >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should >pretty much be ignored all together in relation to >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some >percentage of that material as canon. If you accept >some of it, what sort of elements do you generally >accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) >Thanks. > >Shane HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:42:27 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1-5] (??) Did all five parts of this "really old file" reach the MML? I e-mailed all five roughly at the same time but I'm not sure if they got delivered without any trouble (their size may be a problem). Else, they arrived on the MMB OK. I'm out of time, so I'll try dealing with your questions hopefully during the weekend. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:53:36 -0500 From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) >. If > there's psionic references in the RS box, please > someone post it, or summarize it, so that the material > could be used in this discussion. IIRC, there is a mention that a wild talent could be substituted for a legacy, though it would suffer the same restrictions as legacies [ie, not working outside the Savage Coast] Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:55:03 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] In a message dated 99-10-29 19:28:26 EDT, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << > uhmm... dunno if these City mini gazetteers could have been that useful. > Sure, we would have bought them, but I don't think that a DM really needs > so much information about ONE SINGLE city to run a campaign.. :) Oh I totally disagree. Look at how big the Greyhawk City set was, and how big the...um...the big one in FR...Waterdeep! Look at how those are detailed and how useful they are. They're great sets! I would have loved some in depth looks at cities! >> Yeah, cities rock! One of the first campaigns I played in was in the City State of the Invincible Overlord, by Judges Guild (check out their web site; they are back, more or less, and have reprinted the CSIO and are releasing their magazine, Pegasus). Another early favorite was Sanctuary, from Thieves World (as developed by Chaosium) and Carse and Tulan of Midkemia Press. Then of course, like Jeff mentions, there was the City of Greyhawk (eh, not so well done as I would have liked) and Waterdeep (no comment). And now for some self-aggrandizement... My first published item is out (Hoody-Hoo)! Unfortunately, it only gives me an "Additional material" credit, though I wrote more than half of it. Check out the Kenzer & Company Kalamar Quest SV1, "Unguarded Hoard". I wrote all the materials pertaining to the Free City of Bronish (page 7 through 16). Unguarded Hoard is available from all better hobby and game shops and retails at a measly $3.95. Bronish would fit in as a small city (it's a town by Mystaran standards) on the Davanian coast; substitute Daro (or maybe Thyatian) for Brandobian and Davanian for Meznam and it will fit right in (major faiths will easily translate too, such as the House of Solace being a temple to Koryis, etc.)... And here's some more evidence that cities rock: Today I just got in the mail a copy of BaDGe Publications latest supplement, the City of Telndar; haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it looks totally kewl! And what does this have to do with Mystara, might you ask? Well, CoT was written by none other than Brant Guillory, our very own B1Bard! Like Bronish, I'm certain that with some work Telndar can be adapted in part or in whole into Mystara; check it, and the World of Esaene out at www.badgepubs.com... Mystaros *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:56:34 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Chronomancy (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) I remember dicussions on Chromancy. There were several ideas. There are many oppertunities for Chronomancy in Mystara. Though there is no explaination to explain how Chromancy exists on Mystara. Perhaps the Nithians had the secret and are chronomancing the times in Mystara's past and future. The whole Blackmoor era and the possible oppertunities are limitless. I myself had one alternative timeline to the Great Rain of Fire event. I had Shadow World. Instead of the Great Rain of Fire occuring on Mystara, the explosion and descrution occurred inside Hollow World. The result is that the surface world remained unscathed. The surface world was eventually dominated by a Mayan-Aztec style of culture with tidbits of advanced technology such as hover-skifts, light-lances, light-pistols, transport mats, flying pyramidal temples, and some limited robotics. The inner world was devasted. The inner sun turned dark and forever the inner world was lit by a dim twilight. Forever this inner-world was known as Shadow World. There were civilizations that developed here, but much different than Hollow World. In Shadow World, there were several races of Beastmen, Gnolls, Trolls. There were also dwarves, dark elves (GAZ11), and dragon men. There were tribes of humans as well. But a new race developed. These were the mechanoids. No one understands how these race was developed or came into existance, but they are unstoppable. The mechanoids consider all biological life inferior and must be enslaved or destroyed. The weakness of the black claddened mechanoids is that they do not have a strong grasp of magic. They employ some mages to assist in this weakness, but sometimes the mages exploit and take advantage for the mechanoids ignorance of magic. The surface world was not without problems. A powerful lich has been threatening the empire. He has united bands of humanoids and other undesirable creatures as well as barbaric peoples. He has vast resources. However, he recently has new unstopable forces. Newly created undead-mechanoids are at his desposal. It is not known where these black claddened warriors come from. The technology is far more advanced than that of the Empire. >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should >pretty much be ignored all together in relation to >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some >percentage of that material as canon. If you accept >some of it, what sort of elements do you generally >accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) >Thanks. > >Shane HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:57:06 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Brain Collecting) >I don't think it had anything to do with the Brain Collector, which was used >in Tale of the Comet and one or two other products. I've seen several mentions of Tale of the Comet here and on the MMB, but I never had the time to read them thoroughly. IIRC, this is a generic AD&D adventure. Can someone briefly explain how well it fits into Mystara and, if available, where there is specific information on setting it in Mystara. Thanks! Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:22:25 -0400 From: redrobyne Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1-5] (??) I didn't see number Part 2 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:42 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 1-5] (??) > Did all five parts of this "really old file" reach the MML? I e-mailed all > five roughly at the same time but I'm not sure if they got delivered without > any trouble (their size may be a problem). Else, they arrived on the MMB OK. > I'm out of time, so I'll try dealing with your questions hopefully during the > weekend. > > Bruce Heard > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:31:03 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) > Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, I > reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed > universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with Spelljammer > more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to > understand..) Not quite. We can completely disregard officially the existence of such blashphemies as Spelljammer (sorry Leroy!) in the Mystara contiuum, simply by placing Mystara's Multiverse in a seperate dimension (a la WoTI's Dimensions!) I have always done this in my campaigns. AD&D worlds exist in a different dimension, and transferred characters have to deal with the change (i.e Clerics lose all their spells until they find an Immortal, etc. ) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:35:54 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: SpellJammer (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) The SpellJammer is an all encompassing genre, so I do not see any reason that this cannot be apart of Mystara. Already the Alphatians seem to be able to SpellJam themselves. I think the SpellJammer rules need to be tailored to fit Alphatian and possibly Heldannic Knights designs, assuming they are space worthy. Various campaign worlds have things like GreySpace of KyrnnSpace. It would be most interesting to see something like MystaraSpace. There is already information on Miyoshima, the invisible moon. It would be nice to see these more detailed. One interesting idea could work in conjunction with my prior idea for Chronomancy. Perhaps there could be any alternative Mystaran world placed by the gods in the event of two unique time lines. This planet (Mystarros and Shadow World) exists within the same solar system, but at the opposite side of the sun. This planet could never be observed from Mystaras by atrologists or astronomers. However, with SpellJamming Alphatian technology, this world could be visited. >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should >pretty much be ignored all together in relation to >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some >percentage of that material as canon. If you accept >some of it, what sort of elements do you generally >accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) >Thanks. > >Shane HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #474 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 475 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: PlaneScape (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) Re: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2 -- duplicate] [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:38:26 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: PlaneScape (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) Planescape has many possibilities, but this is difficult because there are some strong opinions about multi-verse and its relationship to Mystara. PlaneScape is one of these all-encompassing developments. Personally, I really admire the descriptions presented in the Companion Set. It is really sound and logical. >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should >pretty much be ignored all together in relation to >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some >percentage of that material as canon. If you accept >some of it, what sort of elements do you generally >accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) >Thanks. > >Shane HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 20:39:57 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) I'm not getting the hostility. I think you might be misreading it. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:42 PM Subject: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) > I think these comments are seem a little hostile. I hope this message board does not become discouraging. I've noticed other comments before that seemed like an attack towards Bruce. > > > >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on > >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that were > >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? Do > >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, > >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should > >pretty much be ignored all together in relation to > >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some > >percentage of that material as canon. If you accept > >some of it, what sort of elements do you generally > >accept, and which do you generally reject? What do you > >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at > >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to > >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara Summary" > >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate > >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the > >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors > >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your opinion > >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that I'm > >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter to me > >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) > >Thanks. > > > >Shane > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:48:57 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) To me, there's only one viable place to have Psionics in Mystara: Yavdlom. When developing my campaign handbook, I worked long and hard on the subject, and came up with this: Psionics are extremely rare on Mystara, so rare that there are no schools whatsoever for it, and 95% of any manifested are wild talents. As a result, players would really be working uphill, there is no Psionicist class, because the cultural background doesn't exist to supply it. Yavdlom is a minor exception to the above, because of the artifact which causes latent psionic ability to manifest more frequently, but it tends to favor more temporal/ESP powers, and typically such player characters must become Specialty Priests of Yav to develop their talent. (Likely Yav would be the most experienced Immortal on the use and development of Psionics.) However, if you read the material carefully in Champions of Mystara, all Yavi powers fade as they go further from the artifact! So, this neatly contains your psionics in a given area and prevents it from spreading out. (Good job on that one, Bruce!) IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" Rob wrote: > I can understand why you have a problem with psionis as they are presented > in the Complete Psionics handbook (and other AD&D rules), since they are > as you say overpowered and unbalanced. > > Mmm, the telepathy rules are a bit OTT.  When I introduced psionics I just > invented a new > saving throw (vs psionics), and then it worked fine.  I've used psionics for > four years game time > in a Mystara setting, no problems.  Just adds a bit more to the game. > > Cheerz > > Rob > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:52:59 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] I think the Avenger should become a completely new and unique class for D&D3E much like the Assassin. The Druidic Knight can also become a class, or perhaps a kit of the Ranger. - -- On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:39:12 Shane Henry wrote: >--- Ambreville@aol.com wrote: >> Based on what we do know, why not start >> drafting a tentative list >> of questionable features (perhaps using 2nd Edition >> as a starting point)? > >I agree that the relatively small amount of 2E >material will be useful in guiding the OD&D to 3E >conversion. However, one major problem with the 2E >stuff is that only tidbits of the Known World (and the >KW's unique classes and races) were covered in 2E, >namely, just Karameikos and Glantri, along with >scattered conversions in the Almanacs. The Red >Steel/Savage Coast setting also gave hints at how to >convert some KW features into 2E, such as the OD&D >avenger and druidic knight classes becoming variations >on the fighter(defender) class-kit combo. The RS/SC >material is less helpful however, since, though it's >2E, it doesn't overlap geographically with the OD&D >material, so there's only a few instances where we can >clearly see how OD&D was "supposed" to be converted to >2E. It would be really helpful if we could see the >working notes of the TSR team that was preparing the >never-released Mystara boxed set that you [Bruce] >mentioned. I wonder if there's any chance in hell that >that you could use your mysterious connections to find >out if that information still exists, and if it could >be collected and shared with you or us to provide us >with an intermediate, almost canon, step between OD&D >and 3E? > >***OK, I'm back from dreamland ;-)*** >Another thing we'll need to take into account when >using the 2E Mystara materials to guide the 3E >conversion, is that 3E is dropping the "kit" format -- >which was the main format used in the description of >2E Mystara character types. The obvious solution would >be to elevate the *substantial* Mystaran kits back to >classes for 3E. When I say "substantial", I mean kits >like the "philosopher" (=OD&D cleric) and the >"defender" -- professions which are unique enough to >stand on their own as 3E classes (and which probably >*should've* been distinct Mystaran *classes* in 2E). >"Unsubstantial" kits would be those that are really >just little flavor packages, such as the "veteran" >warrior kit, or the "city rogue" kit, both from K:KoA. >The teeny-weeny special benefits and hinderances of >these "unsubstantial" kits *should* be taken into >account, and perhaps retained for describing the >special characteristics of the 3E Mystaran core >classes, but they aren't special enough to stand on >their own as full 3E classes... "Ooh goody! I get the >Endurance NWP as a bonus, I must choose one NWP from >the "City Proficiencies Table", and I begin the game >with a nonmagical set of armor and shield of AC5 or >less!" [Says the fighter with the veteran kit, >sarcastically.] I get the feeling that the 2E Mystara >designers (RS/SC included) went a little overboard on >the whole "kit" concept -- many of those "kits" (ie. >the "substantial" ones) should've simply been >described as new, Mystara-specific classes, while the >unsubstantial ones are more appropriate as kits. I >mean the *other* 2E settings got their very own >selection of classes (in addition to a bunch of >setting-specific kits as well) -- Forgotten Realms got >the "mystic" [not the same as the OD&D mystic], >"harper", and "spellfire wielder", and several others; >Dragonlance got the "tinker", "wizard of high >sorcery", "cleric of the holy order of stars", >"solomnic knight", and "dragon knight", Dark Sun got >the "gladiator", Birthright got the "magician", >Ravenloft the "avenger" [not similar to the OD&D >avenger], and Greyhawk got the "monk of the scarlet >brotherhood" and the "assassin of the sb". I wonder >why all of Mystara's interesting character types were >described at the kit level? I think we'll need to >rework the class system for 3E Mystara to make it more >consistent. > >Finally, if we'd done a full 2E conversion of Mystara, >which also fully took into account the "Complete >Handbook" series and the "Option" series, we'd be more >preprared for this 3E conversion...Oh well, it'll >still work out in the end ;-). > >Shane > >===== > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:00:05 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2 -- duplicate] Subj: An even older file... [PART 2] Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com The Known World Most fantasy games are set in a universe, an imaginary world shared by common people and heroes, destitutes and kings. Dungeons, cities, kingdoms, and even whole planets are invented and detailed, offering locations where adventures could take place. The intent of a game world is to provide a familiar background to the players that encourages them to interact with the game's imaginary personalities played by the Dungeon Master. These ties help the Dungeon Master develop plausible adventures in a tangible environment — just like in a movie. This allows players to better relate to their game characters, which makes the game more fun and attractive to the players. In the D&D® Game, there is the Known World. It is a small region on the World of Mystara, where most adventures take place. D&D players are familiar with this setting, because it was introduced in the core rules system — the D&D® Game Cyclopedia. It is called the Known World because for centuries little was known about what lay beyond its shores. With great explorers and invasions however, the Known World slowly grew to include other lands. Mystara is a strange world. It was shaped by ultra-powerful beings called The Immortals. They are the ones who created this world, and then brought it life. Some advocated human cultures, others fostered the civilizations of dwarves, elves, halflings, and even the monstrous kingdoms of the orcs and of the dragons. For the Immortals, a reason exists for all life on Mystara. Mystara has three main continents, Brun, Skothar, and Davania, and several large islands such as the Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, and Bellissaria. Nowadays, the Known World mostly covers the territories of two rival empires, Thyatis and Alphatia, and neighboring kingdoms located in the northern hemisphere, between Skothar and Brun. The best known, most detailed region remains in a very small area of the southeastern corner of Brun. There, in a territory no more than 1,700 miles across, lie over fifteen sovereign kingdoms. Like a mosaic, they offer a wide variety of background flavors, ranging from the sun-baked dunes of Ylaruam to the gentle hills of the Five Shires. All theses nations were fully developed in a collection of supplements called the Gazetteers, one of the best selling Dungeons & Dragons® game products. All of these nations show up on the two D&D® Trail Maps, along with useful information for travellers! The Known World is a setting whose cultures and level of technological development resemble the Europe of our Earth around the 15th century. The Known World hasn't yet developed gunpowder or the printing press, but in many other ways the two worlds are similar. In many regions, the more powerful people rely heavily on magic, perhaps a bit more so than is customary in other fantasy worlds. What makes the Known World so popular is its consistency, its coherence, and its refreshing blend of cultures. Great attention was paid to historical backgrounds, civilizations and philosophies, the people and their leaders, and intricate geographical features of their lands. Relative to its size, the Known World is the most detailed and varied game setting in our field. After the World of Greyhawk™ Setting, developed for the AD&D® Game, the Known World is the oldest game setting and still registers sustained sales in the industry. Even today, the Known World is the object of further expansion. It is described initially in the D&D Game Cyclopedia, and further detailed by a series of accessories (the Gazetteers). Most game worlds are initially described in an accessory product that is separate from the game rules — as is the case with the Hollow World in the D&D Game and all of the AD&D Game worlds. Here are a few of the nations that make the Known World: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos Where it all starts. This nation of the Known World has been the starting point of many of our Entry Level adventures (most B-series modules, for example, were set in Karameikos, as were computer games). This heavily-forested region used to be known as Traladara, a "nation" that was really a loose confederation of independent baronies. Thirty years ago, Stefan Karameikos, an ambitious nobleman of the nearby Empire of Thyatis, traded his ancestral lands to the Thyatian emperor for Thyatian recognition of Karameikos' right to independent rule of Traladara. Spending all his family fortunes on mercenary armies, Stefan Karameikos invaded Traladara, quickly conquering the nation's largest sea-port, Marilenev, and settling garrisons in all the region's larger communities. He renamed the nation after himself: It became the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The Thyatian rulers, though they control the nation's economic and military might, don't have complete control of the nation. Karameikos is a land where thousands of square miles of dark forests are populated only by animals, by hermit-like loggers and foresters, by forest folk such as elves and centaurs, even by monsters — the Traladaran forests are an ancient home to vampires, werewolves and other dark creatures of legend. Secret Traladaran popular movements oppose the Thyatians, occasionally sabotaging the plans and activities of their rulers. Karameikos is a divided land, its majority Traladaran population ruled by the invader Thyatian population. The Traladarans are a very free-spirited, spiritual people with clothing and names similar to inhabitants of our Earth's Eastern Europe. The Thyatians are a pragmatic and self-centered people, with the conquering instincts of Earth's ancient Romans (with their tastes in entertainment, too). Naturally, the two population elements tend to dislike one another greatly. Ref. GAZ 1 — The Grand Duchy of Karameikos The Empire of Thyatis The Warrior Empire Thyatis is a seaside empire infamous for its violent history, the cunning and treachery of its leaders throughout the millennia, the decadence of its entertainments, and the might of its army. In many ways, it resembles Earth's Roman and Byzantine Empires during the periods when their armies were achieving their greatest victories and their courts were well on their sliding way into decline. Thyatis is the nemesis of Alphatia, its eastern neighbor. They have been at war many times with Alphatia, and the current truce is but a fragile peace that may easily cede to yet another great war — the stakes: control of the Known World seas and the rich colonies on Skothar and Davania. The people of Thyatis admire fighting ability above all else. They tend to be very clever traders. Their politicians, merchants, and ambitious military officers tend to be none too trustworthy, but adventurers don't have to have this personality trait. The capital and perhaps the greatest city of the Known World, the City of Thyatis is justly renowned for the magnificence of its marble architecture and the sophistication and decadence of its noble ruling class. The City of Thyatis is the empire's greatest seaport, with an enclosed and defended harbor, and is the seat of the empire's trade and naval fleets. Like ancient Rome at the height of the Roman Empire, it is avibrant, teeming city whose population is so great that it strains against the very walls, whose people are enthralled by gladiatorial spectacle (the Coliseum seats nearly one-tenth of the city population at a time), and whose Senate is virtually a school for intrigue and deception. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Empire of Alphatia The Magical Empire Master of Magic, Alphatia is a mighty power to the east of the Thyatian Empire, ruling the Islands of Alphatia and Bellissaria, the northeastern coast of Brun, and many other small nations. The original Alphatians are not native to this dimension. Their original very magical home, far away in another plane, was destroyed in a philosophical war of magic. The Alphatians came to the Known World and settled, building a new empire based on magic. There are two kinds of Alphatians: Common and Pure. Common Alphatians have coppery skin and brown (sometimes red) hair; Pure Alphatians, a distinct minority, have very pale white skin and dark hair. Neither race has a cultural advantage in the empire. Unlike the Principalities of Glantri (see later in this Chapter), all people using clerical or wizard spells — spellcasters — are considered nobles; non-spellcasters have few rights. Spellcasters and non-spellcasters live under different sets of laws, laws which (naturally) favor the spellcasters. Prejudice in Alphatia isn't based on skin color, culture, or mystical philosophies; it is based on magical ability or its lack. The imperial capital of Alphatia lies in the southwestern region of the continent. As the capital of a magical empire, it is heavily decorated by and protected by magic spells, and is often called the "city built by magic." It is also the port of call for the awesome Alphatian skyships. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Emirates of Ylaruam The Arabian Desert This is a desert land, all blazing sun, rolling dunes, and widely-separated oases, similar in appearance and the culture of its people to the medieval-era Arabian peninsula of our Earth. In recent centuries, the Thyatians to the south and Alphatians to the far east have come to Ylaruam to conquer; they moved in, the Thyatians from the south and the Alphatians from the north, and fought in the center, their wars going on for decades until the Ylari people threw them out. The Alasiyan culture which is dominant in Ylaruam is as harsh as the desert that spawned it. The Ylari greatly admire the desert warrior, the turbaned hero with his flashing scimitar and noble desert steed. Magic use is forbidden here; magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known. On the other hand, clerics are venerated in this land. The Ylari follow the philosophies of Al-Kalim, a warrior and teacher who embarked on a Path to Immortality a century ago. His dream was of the Desert Garden, all the desert lands of Ylaruam transformed by work and cooperation into the greenest and fairest of lands; when the Ylari need something to unite them, they use the words of Al-Kalim. Though the clans and tribes of Ylaruam often war with one another, they willingly forget their differences to band against foreign invaders... and then just as willingly renew their internal struggles once the invasion is thrown back. Ref.: GAZ 2 — The Emirates of Ylaruam. The Principalities of Glantri The Eccentric Wizards This mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. In this country, clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found). Glantri is divided into many principalities, each of which has its own ruler, and laws. Aalban is famous for the machines and devices its craftsmen make. Belcadiz is home to elves who are famous for their metalworks and their fine black lace; the elves in this nation live more like humans than elves, dwelling in fine houses and cities rather than woodland communities. Bergdhoven is famous for its flowers (and the dyes and perfumes which come from them), its cheeses, and its jewelry and gemcutters. Blackhill is best-known for the quantity of its fruits and vegetables, and for the coal mined here. Boldavia is a major supplier of salt (mined by convicts and slaves) and ice (shipped hastily to Glantri City and other places). Caurenze is best known for its graceful marble architecture, its gold mines and fine weaponry. Erewan is a land of more traditional sylvan elves, who are fine bowyers, woodworkers, and artists. Klantyre is a major supplier of wool and mutton, lumber and heavy woodwork. Krondahar is a producer of silk and leather goods, fine beef and yogurt. New Averoigne is best-known for its wines and the culinary arts. The population is a blend of many ancient cultures, including very urban elves, sylvan elves, descendants of Alphatians, Thyatian colonists, Traladarans, and even races from other dimensions. Ref.: GAZ 3 — The Principalities of Glantri The Islands of Ierendi A Tropical Adventurers' Paradise It is a very peculiar kingdom — the Known World's capital for adventurers, and a vacation spot for retired dungeoneers! Even the King and Queen are chosen among the best adventurers, and get to rule over some of the richest people ever, as well as the true native Ierendians, the very kind Makai tribes. Ierendi consists mostly of a large tropical island in the Sea of Dread, just south of Brun. The kingdom includes such colorful places as Safari Island where mockup dungeons and monster hunts are available for would-be adventurers among the common folk! Depending on how much a customer is willing to pay for entertainment, treasures can be just as fake as the monsters. Other places nearby also include Fletcher Island, a place for medieval tourists seeking peace and tranquility under a coconut tree, Alcove Island, a nest for buccaneers and pirates, or Aloysius Island further to the south which is a harsh penal colony, as well as a heaven for gold miners and lizard men. Come to Ierendi, again and again! Ref.: GAZ 4 — The Kingdom of Ierendi The Forest of Alfheim The Faerie Woods This is the homeland of sylvan elves. Once a featureless plain, it was magically transformed into a deep, dark forest — one that is ominous to humans and other races but cheerful to elves. This is a land of enormous trees, of elven cities made up of tree-houses hundreds of feet in the air and connected by wooden catwalks. It's a place where few non-elves come unless they are invited... or invading. The people of Alfheim are all elves — except residents of Alfheim Town (10,000 humans, 300 dwarves, 800 halflings, and a few others). The elves here are much as they are in other parts of the world: Lithe and mysterious, magical and merry, they are followers of nature and growing things. They are no friends of the dwarves in Rockhome or the humanoids in the Broken Lands. Alfheim is located entirely within the Republic of Darokin, with whom they maintain cordial ties. Their worst foes are the Shadow Elves whose realm lies deep underground. Their gloomy caverns can reach the heart of Alfheim (see Shadow Elves later in this section). Ref.: GAZ 5 — The Elves of Alfheim The Mountains of Rockhome The Dwarven Citadel This is a land of fertile valleys surrounded by high, treacherous mountains. Rockhome is the land of the world's dwarves, and its thick ring of mountains is well-suited to them both defensively and aesthetically. The dwarves build their communities of strong stone; they're famous for their engineering skills. Many of Rockhome towns and villages are either partially or completely built underground, particularly in the large natural caverns which riddle this territory. This potent combination of surrounding mountains, defensive stone fortifications, and underground communities makes Rockhome difficult to invade. Almost all residents of Rockhome are dwarves. The dwarves of Rockhome seem aloof, surly and suspicious to outsiders, but they are merry and friendly when among their own kind. Ref.: GAZ 6 — The Dwarves of Rockhome Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland Three Flavors of Norsemen These three nations, living in chilly northern seaside lands, are all similar to Earth's ancient Viking cultures at various eras. The Soderfjord Jarldoms is a poor nation full of contentious jarls (earls) and plagued by humanoid invaders. Vestland is a mainland country with a history of military achievement. Ostland is an island nation with a great tradition of seamanship and piracy. The men and women of Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland are a tall, fair, rugged breed. Shaped by their environment and their histories of warfare and noble adventure, they're a very aggressive lot. Ref.: GAZ 7 — The Northern Reaches The Five Shires The Halfling Lands This seaside nation north of Ierendi is the homeland of the halflings ("hin"). Though the hin here have been three times ruled by outsiders (twice by orcs, once by dwarves), the Five Shires are now ruled entirely by hin, and constitute a strong, independent nation with a strong army and navy. The Five Shires region is a broad, deeply-forested piece of rolling land. The land is very fertile and hin farmers can get two or three harvests per year; the Five Shires export a lot of grain to Darokin, Glantri and Karameikos. The Five Shires really is a nation divided into five regions, called shires, each of which is semi- independent and ruled by a sheriff. The Shires include Seashire, Highshire, Eastshire, Heartshire, and Southshire. The great majority of residents of the Five Shires are halflings. But, while most humans think that halflings are peace-loving and harmless, there are many halfling adventurers and buccaneers in this region. Ref.: GAZ 8 — The Five Shires The Minrothad Islands The Sea Merchants They are located east of Ierendi, next to the Empire of Thyatis. Also called the Minrothad Guilds, they are notorious for their naval power and great wealth. It is a nation run by Merchant Princes, literal barons of the Sea of Dread and life line for many of the coastal cities on the Sea of Dread. A large proportion of the people are elves who developed an attraction for things of the sea. On Traders Island, the population is evenly divided among humans and elves, but on the next largest island of the Guilds, Alfeisle, the vast majority consists of elves. These are a peaceful people who acquired great knowledge of the sea, navigation, ship building, and commerce. They benefit from a friendly relationship with their great neighbor, the Empire of Thyatis, and are rumored to have ties with many other distant realms such as Alphatia, mysterious kingdoms in Davania, and the Great Hule far to the west of the Known World. The Minrothad Guilds keep their navigation rutters very secret. They are the naval counterpart of the land-based Republic of Darokin (see later in this Reference Guide). Ref.: GAZ 9 — The Guilds of Minrothad The Broken Lands The Unhuman Tribes This is a wasteland of rugged hills and mountains, infertile valleys and canyons, and blasted plains and deserts. Long ago, it was a rich land, but it was smashed by a techno-magical disaster which changed the very face of the world. Since then, it has been an ugly and useless land shunned by humans and demi- humans. Because none of these races want the Broken Lands, this region has become home to the humanoids — the orcs, kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, and other races who resemble humans but hate them and cannot seem to compete with them. The humanoids of the Broken Lands are divided into countless numbers of loosely-allied tribes. They are united only in that they obey King Thar and mass together under his decree to raid surrounding nations for food, slaves and wealth. A vast network of caverns and tunnels exists underneath the Broken Lands. Occasionally, humanoids venture into galleries that lead them far into the heart of neighboring countries, especially Rockhome, Alfheim, and Darokin. Some go deep enough to even reach the dark lands of the Shadow Elves (see later in this Reference Guide). Earthquakes regularly wreak havoc on these tunnels, sometimes obliterating entire migrating tribes. Ref.: GAZ 10 — The Broken Lands The Republic of Darokin The Caravan Empire It is the third largest nation of the Known World, after the Empires of Thyatis and Alphatia. This republic is one of the greater economic and diplomatic powers in the region because it maintains common borders with ten other nations. Darokinians are the wheelers and dealers of the Known World. For them, all is fine as long as business is good. Darokinians are known as the Trail Builders. They are the ones who mount expeditions into wildlands to open new routes to distant kingdoms. The Darokinians are fond of creating enterprises that will seek new wealth far beyond the common trails. They own many of the caravans that travel the Known World, from Norwold to the Great Hule. The worst foe of Darokin lies on the northern border: The Orcs of King Thar. These non-human creatures constantly raid the caravans travelling between Glantri and Darokin. The orcs also sacked the city of Corunglain several times in history. Ref.: GAZ 11 — The Republic of Darokin [END OF PART 2] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:00:36 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] Subj: An even older file... [PART 4] Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com The Future of the Known World (ha,ha... almost comical) The Known World has seen a number of savage wars and migrations, but one of its biggest upheavals is yet to come. The two largest empires, Thyatis and Alphatia, are on the eve of another major clash over the fate of a magical artifact in the Principalities of Glantri. This conflict and the background of events that will affect the Known World during the next ten game years will be the focus of 1992, in the accessory Wrath of the Immortals. Many Champion Level products not directly related to the Great War will be affected in some fashion. Imagine an adventure in ancient Greece during the war against Troy. Although the adventure is separate from the conflict, the war still goes on and sets a distinct atmosphere. The Origins of the Great War: The Immortals are the ones who ultimately provoke the Great War. It starts with a quarrel between them that soon spreads to their mortal followers in the Known World. Immortals are divided among Spheres of Power representing their main areas of influence and power, and also determining their opinion toward the Glantrian artifact. There are five spiritual spheres: Thought, Time, Matter, Energy, and Entropy (the forces of darkness) with diverging interests. Phase I — The Prelude Immortals of the Sphere of Energy discovered that the powers the Glantrian artifact provides to wizards drains magical energy to the point where magic's very existence on Mystara may be threatened. These Immortals decide to intervene and conspire to destroy the artifact. Their scheme would break an age-old pact with the other Spheres that forbade any direct involvement with the affairs of mortals. This causes a catastrophic schism in the Immortals' pantheon. The spiritual patron of the Glantrian wizards, Etienne d'Ambreville (see d'Ambreville in the previous Chapter) adamantly opposes the artifact's destruction. It is his conviction that the time of magic has passed on Mystara and that it should yield before true science and technology. Magic should be reserved to Immortals only. For this reason he opposes the artifact's destruction. His opponents form the Ring of Fire, a loose alliance set against d'Ambreville and the artifact. In response, d'Ambreville establishes the Fellowship of the Star, an alliance with several other Immortals opposed to direct intervention among mortals. The two factions run into a stalemate. They cannot defeat each other and decide to fight the conflict down at mortal level. Phase II — The Build-Up The Immortals start building up their forces, trying to increase the number of their followers — the more followers, the more power to the Immortals and their causes. This leads to a fierce race for magical power. One after another, states, kingdoms, and empires fall under the control of an Immortal. Adventurers are sent on quests benefitting one faction of Immortals over another. Immortals of the fifth sphere (Entropy) so far remained quiet. They secretly and systematically help weaker factions. Their plan is to ensure no faction gets a cheap victory, since Entropy feed upon misery and destruction. These Immortals are known as the Brotherhood of the Shadow. Phase III — The Great War Immortals assembled large forces of mortal followers. Raids and local wars break out. Soon the conflict degenerates into massive campaign wars (Alphatia clashes with Thyatis, the Orcs of Thar invade Darokin, the Shadow Elves seize Alfheim, and Ethengar plunders the Northern Realms, etc). The Brotherhood of the Shadow causes conflicts to be as devastating as possible according to their plan, and quietly keeps switching sides. The Brotherhood of the Shadow becomes the leading faction. Phase IV — The Aftermath At the end however, the Brotherhood of the Shadow openly sides with d'Ambreville and his allies, hoping to ruin an all out attempt from the Ring of Fire to destroy the artifact. The Ring of Fire rallies the Thousand Archmages of Alphatia and throws them against Glantri. Their bold move succeeds and the artifact is neutralized. Although not destroyed, the artifact no longer drains magical power from Mystara. Instead, it feeds upon the evil powers of Entropy's grimmer fiends, vampires, liches, and other servitors of darkness, greatly weakening the Immortals of Entropy in the process. With fear, they now sense their possible doom in centuries to come. Alas, the cost of the battle remains very dear to many. The Alphatian archmages are destroyed in their assault of Glantri. They were the source of an arcane power upon which Alphatia was built, and their demise causes the destruction of the arcane empire. With horror, the wizards see Alphatia's mainland sink into the cold Sea of Dawn. Unbeknownst to mortals in the Known World, the Wizard Empire becomes a floating continent in the Hollow World, while its remaining colonies fall under Thyatian occupation. Etienne's Immortal soul is trapped in the artifact and corrupted. He becomes a minion of the Sphere of Entropy, along with all his followers in the Brotherhood of the Radiance. Glantri is ravaged by the war, becomes a pawn of darkness, and sinks into a dark age. Glantri and the Orcs of Thar become the new threat against mighty Thyatis. In the mean time, the face of the Known World has forever changed. Phase V — (The Secret Phase No One Knows about) The twin brother of d'Ambreville, under the guise of a wizard's janitor, pulls the plug on TSR and all the lights go out. (Just checking to see if you are really reading all this stuff -- BH.) World Events The Known World uses a common chronology, based on the year the first Thyatian emperor was crowned. Today, all adventures in the Known World take place in AC 1,000 (AC — After Crowning) All current products are written for that year. Alphatians use a different chronology. For them, the current year is AY 2,000 (that is 2,000 years after the arrival of the first Alphatian in the Known World). The timeline given here presents some past and future background related to Wrath of the Immortals and Haldemar (the Captain of the Princess Ark). Both backgrounds have to do with the Great War and the future of the Known World. A much more detailed timeline on the history of the nations and the peoples of the Known World is provided in the Hollow World boxed set (see also Hollow World Reference Guide). Historical Timeline BC 2800? The adventurer Vanya attains Immortality in the southern continent after defeating a monstrous red dragon. Her mortal body remains in a vault, a site that is taboo for local tribesmen. AC 775 A 23 year-old Hattian adventurer, Gustav Grunturm, discovers ancient scriptures on Vanya's history. Gustav leaves on a life-long journey across the world in search of Vanya's treasures. AC 805 Gustav discovers Vanya's vault and sacred scriptures telling of Vanya's saga. Gustav is 53. AC 810 Gustav returns to Hattias, and starts a new temple. Minrothad merchants provide initial funds. AC 823 Gustav incites Hattians to overthrow Emperor Gabrionus IV and conquer Thyatis. AC 825 Thyatian troops burn down the original temple, killing 73 year-old Gustav and destroying his original maps and books. Followers of Vanya are branded as heretics and flee to more tolerant Heldann Freeholds. The Immortal Ixion begins to build up followers among mortals. AC 833 Etienne d'Ambreville attains Immortality in Glantri. Eccentric Glantrian wizards vote themselves Wizard Princes. AC 845 The Power of the Radiance is discovered in Glantri. Construction of the Great School of Magic begins above the source of the Radiance. AC 875 Construction of the Great School of Magic is completed in Glantri. The Power of Radiance is first used. AC 885 The Temple of Vanya's power grows among the Heldann Freeholds. Dissensions among the clans and the followers of Vanya causes wars. AC 888 The Brotherhood of the Radiance is founded in Glantri. Minor magic drain begins in the Sphere of Energy. AC 912 The Temple of Vanya creates the Order of the Heldannic Knights. Hattian mercenaries are recruited and shipped north to the Heldann Freeholds. Holger von Kaltstein joins up at age 18. AC 919 The Heldannic Knights defeat the Ethengarian invaders under Toktai Khan, and annex several areas of the Heldann Freeholds. Fortifications begin around the town of Freiburg, siege of the Great Temple of Vanya. AC 926 The Heldannic Knights kill Toktai Khan at the Battle of Hayavik. The Heldannic Knights begin the construction of a series of small forts along the Ethengarian border. Herr Holger loses an eye and becomes a Heldannic hero at the age of 32. AC 930 The Heldannic Knights "pacify" the remainder of the Heldann Freeholds, imposing their law and authority. AC 937 The Citadel of Freiburg is completed. Holger the Blind (at 43 years old) becomes the High Priest of the Heldannic Order. He sends his closest Knights to discover the lost Vault of Vanya. (Wulf von Klagendorf, aka Herr Rolf in Princess Ark, is 19) AC 946 Herr Wulf returns to Freiburg with proof of the sacred vault's location. The Heldannic Knights send a small army, enslave the local tribes, and build a secret fortress on site. AC 947 Herr Wulf discovers the remains of Vanya are a holy relic with magical powers. AC 949 The Heldannic Knights exploit the power of the relic and begin the construction of a fleet of flying ships. AC 951 The Heldannic Knights breach the Sky Shield, and begin space exploration. AC 953 The Heldannic Knights build trading posts in various areas of space. They discover and visit the Hollow World. AC 961 Thincol becomes Emperor at age 23. AC 962 Eriadna becomes Empress at age 42. AC 966 Princess Ark jumps to the future (2,000 AY). Wulf is killed at age 48 by a Synn. First cathedral consecrated to Ixion is completed in Thyatis. The movement expands into Karameikos and Darokin, but fails in Ylaruam. AC 979 Holger the Blind dies at age 85 of old age in Freiburg. Synn's Immortal Patron, returns Wulf von Klagendorf with extra powers to Freiburg. He succeeds Holger at the head of the Heldannic Order (still at age 48). AC 982 The Heldannic Knights conquer a large portion of the Known World's 1st moon. A new, strange metal ore is discovered. Natives become hostile. AC 994 Ixion discovers the magical drain from the Sphere of Energy and traces it back to Glantri and d'Ambreville. Phase I of Wrath of the Immortals starts. AC 995 Etienne d'Ambreville becomes a renegade. Immortals Rathanos and Eiryndul secretly help him. Ixion and Alphatia head the Fire Ring -- a loose alliance including other Immortals from various sphere -- against d'Ambreville. Most notable supporters of the Fire Ring are Valerias (Matter) and Ilsundal (Energy). AC 996 Immortals mostly from other spheres dispute the Fire Ring's goals, headed by Asterius (Thought), Ka (Matter) and Rafiel (Time). They form the Fellowship of the Star. Most notable supporters of the Fellowship include Korotiku (Thought) and Vanya (Time). A number of other Immortals remain neutral. AC 997 Immortals of Entropy claim their neutrality, but in fact secretly help the weaker faction — no matter which one it may become, in order to cause as much damage as possible to the other four spheres. The more active Immortals of Entropy are Alphaks, Atzanteotl and Hel. GAZETTEERS BEGIN AT THIS TIME AC 1000 Princess Ark emerges at the Alphatian Imperial Palace. Wulf is 69 (level 32 Cleric). Haldemar is 51 (Level 21 Wizard). Thincol is 62. Eriadna is 80 (apparent age is 30, magically altered). Heldanners and expatriated Hattians form a mixed race in the Freeholds. Renewed fervor for Al-Kalim grows in Ylaruam. Envoys of The Master contact the Heldannic Knights. Phase I of Wrath of the Immortals ends. AC 1001 Phase II of Wrath of the Immortals begins now. Haldemar's recent interference with The Master's plans provokes an argument between the Heldannic Knights and The Master. The Heldannic Order sends missionaries into Norwold and Ethengar. The Alphatian Council of Wizards accuses Glantri's Great School of Magic of harboring dangerous entropic followers and of using forbidden magics. AC 1002 Spring: Glantrian lycanthropes found their own Principality in Glantri. They immediately ally with their neighbor, the Principality of Sylaire (Etienne d'Ambreville). See PC4 Night Howlers. Summer: Spies sent by The Master to set up Glantrian adventurers in Alphatia. They are framed as the perpetrators of a political assassination against an outspoken opponent of Glantri. The Glantrian Council denies any involvement. Fall: Alphatia breaks diplomatic ties with Glantri. Secret deal between The Master and the Heldannic Knights fails. Winter: Several Glantrian nobles are assassinated (by followers of The Master). Thyatis warns Alphatia to back off. Alphatia denies any involvement. AC 1003 Spring: The Temple of Vanya builds up mystic fervor in Norwold. Thyatis becomes progressively decadent. Summer: Heldannic missionaries massacred in Ethengar. AC 1003 Fall: Heldannic Knights mount several punitive raids into Ethengar. Alphatian spies burn down several Temples of Asterius and set Glantrian adventurers up as culprits. Winter: Glantrian adventurers start a fire that burns down an Alphatian skyship armada in Aasla. AC 1004 Spring: Phase III of Wrath of the Immortals begins. Alphatia declares war on Glantri. Thyatis and the Heldannic Knights side with Glantri. The Master captures Sind. Summer: Alphatia and Thyatis build up their armies on the Isle of Dawn. Alphatian wizards conjure hordes of monsters from other planes and release them in Glantri. Fall: The Alphatian army attacks Thyatian colonies on the Isle of Dawn and captures the Fortress of Kendach. The Ylaruam zealots ally with Alphatia and besiege Biazzan. Winter: The Master invades the Known World. AC 1005 Spring: Glantrian wizard adventurers harass Alphatian nobles in Sundsvall. The Province of West Portage on the Isle of Dawn falls to the Alphatian army. A swarm of red dragons sent by Synn and a coalition of Known World armies wrecks The Master's army and force him to retreat back to Sind permanently. Summer: In revenge of his defeat, The Master releases a meteor that hits Northern Darokin, blasting a huge crater. A black cloud covers Darokin, Alfheim, and the southern half of Glantri. Fall: The Shadow Elves cause the Alfheim forest to mutate and begin their infiltration under the cover of darkness. The dwarves of Rockhome lock themselves up in their caverns. Winter: The Khan of Ethengar invades the Heldann Freeholds and besieges Freiburg. Glantrian adventurers steal a major artifact from the Imperial Palace in Sundsvall. The Alphatian army besieges Redstone Castle on the Isle of Dawn. Biazzan surrenders to the Ylari zealots. AC 1006 Spring: Freiburg still is under siege. The Khan's armies spill over into Vestland and Soderfjord. The Heldannic Knights sign an alliance treaty with Thyatis. Summer: Broken Lands humanoids join with hordes from the Khurish Massif and the Dwarfgate Mountains, under King Thar's authority. They take over the Northern Darokin Crater and invade the south of Glantri. The Alphatian army storms the City of Newkirk on the Isle of Dawn. The Eastern Thyatian Legion ships out and retreats to Thyatis. Fall: Glantri City is under siege from the Orcs of Thar. Redstone Castle surrenders to the Alphatian army. Winter: Alfheim elves flee Canolbarth and split up. Half go north through Ethengar toward Wendar, the others go south toward Karameikos. Allied lycanthropic hordes and mixed Glantrian troops annihilate Thar's forces in a bloodbath at Les Hiboux. AC 1007 Spring: Plague ravages Freiburg. The Khan's hordes retreat to Ethengar, spreading the plague into Ethengar. Ochalea and Nuar claim their independence to avoid war. The Shadow Elves occupy Alfheim. Summer: A Five Shires contingent joins the remainder of the Darokin army in southern Darokin. The City of Helskir betrays Thyatis and sides with Alphatia. The plague spreads into Vestland, Soderfjord, and northern Ylaruam. Fall: The plague spreads into Glantri. Ostland and Heldannic forces trap and massacre remaining Ethengarians at Tromso. The Alphatian fleet defeats the Thyatian navy off the coast of Ylaruam. Winter: Ethengarians pursue Alfheim refugees in Ethengar. The Brotherhood of the Radiance in Glantri begins the construction of a doomsday machine. AC 1008 Spring: Humanoid hordes in Southern Darokin clash with joint Darokin/Five Shires forces. The Alphatian army lands at Cubia, in Ylaruam. Summer: A coalition of Vestland and Heldannic Knights crosses deserted Rockhome, and slams into Thar's rear- guard. The Alphatian army storms the Thyatian border, near Fort Zendrol. AC 1008 Fall: Thar retreats back to the crater and fortifies. Several Alfheim clans resettle woodland areas in Karameikos. The Duchy of Tel Akbir surrenders to the Alphatian army. Winter: The other Alfheim elves cross the northern Glantrian mountains and enter Wendar. The plague spreads to Wendar. The Alphatian army overruns the last Thyatian Legions at the Battles of Kantridae and Retebius. The Brotherhood of the Radiance finishes the construction of their doomsday machine. They use it to conjure a magical storm over the City of Sundsvall, almost killing Empress Eriadna in the process. AC 1009 Spring: Phase IV of the Wrath of the Immortals begins. Empress Eriadna sends the Thousand Arch-mages from the Alphatian Council into Glantri to destroy their doomsday machine. Haldemar (from the Princess Ark) is involved and steals a key component of the doomsday machine. It allows the arch-mages to stop the doomsday machine, but also causes it to explode. The archmages along with many Glantrians die, and d'Ambreville becomes a minion of Entropy, with all disciples of the Brotherhood of the Radiance. Summer: Glantri falls into chaos. Mainland Alphatia "sinks" into the ocean (...and magically reappears as a floating continent in the Hollow World). Prince Eusebius Torion dies in a skirmish, despite a heroic relief effort led by the famous Anaxibius. His galant effort allows the tattered remains of the Thyatian Legions to retreat back into the Imperial Capital. Fall: The Alphatian army surrenders at the gates of the Imperial Capital in Thyatis. Winter: Ylari zealots are defeated and booted out of Biazzan. Alfheim elves settle various woodland areas in Wendar. This marks the end of Wrath of the Immortals. AC 1010 1ST ALMANAC IS WRITTEN. Thyatis begins the reconquest of lost territories. Heldannic Knights annex the Landfall region in Norwold. Surviving Alphatian skyships become pirates (Haldemar becomes a renegade). The dwarves come back out of their caverns. [This is where it gets wierd based on what we know happened... BH.] AC 1011 The balance of power stabilizes. The Glantrian Council is dissolved. Synn takes over the the Glantrian nation. AC 1012 Haldemar prevents Herr Wulf (Rolf) from attaining Immortality — and kills him at age 81. Haldemar is 63, Thincol the Brave is 74. Max der Stutz becomes the High Priest of the Order. Tension grows between the Heldannic Knights and the Thyatians. Glantri turns the Broken Lands and the Darokin Crater into a Glantrian colony. [YOWZA! None of this stuff ever happened! BH.] AC 1013 Using obscure self-defense reasons as a pretext, the Heldannic Knights invade the Oceansend Kingdom in Norwold. Upon the Knights victory at the capital, the local ruler, King Yarrvik, dies in a mysterious "accident". A pro-Heldannic leader immediately replaces Yarrvik. Oceansend becomes the "Most Pious Protectorate of the Heldannic Order". Thyatis breaks its alliance with the Heldannic Knights and denounces the Order's act of outrageous brutality and treachery against an ally of the empire. AC 1014 Although no war is declared, Thyatis and the Heldannic Knights become hostile and compete in their endeavor to colonize distant lands. Synn names herself Queen of Darkness and becomes the Known World's major public enemy. Rumors fly of a secret pact between Synn and Heldannic Max der Stutz. Thincol the Brave dies of old age. Princess Stefania Torion becomes the Empress of Thyatis. Haldemar obtains a Letter of Marque from the new Empress to act as a corsair... and an explorer. Yeah... right. ;o) [END OFPART 4] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #475 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 476 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Chronomancy) -- duplicate e-mail [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics [MYSTARA] - Thanegioth Archipelago & My Article [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [Part 2A] (duplicate) [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [Part 2B] (duplicate) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) -- duplicate [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) -- duplicate Re: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:02:07 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads I think there are two governing philosphies used within D&D: the humanization approach and the fey approach. The humanization is the concept that other races can intermix with humans as they are genetically similar. Thus Half-Dryads and Half-Satyrs can exist. There was an excellent article in one Dragon Magazine issue detailing these half-breeds and their class combinations. Perhaps these races can be converted into OD&D classes. The fey concept is that all races intermix with humans will magically always be fey and will never change. Thus when a dryad mixes with a human, the offspring will always be dryads. Then a satyr impregnates a human female, the child will always be satyr. Similarly, if elves and human mix, the result will always be elf or perhaps human. Never will there be a half-elf. Personally, I like the humanization in the aspect that there is more diversity, however this does lead toward munchkinism and overcomplex rules. The OD&D system does not seem to support the concept of a half-elf class or any other half-? class. regards, Joaquin - -- On Fri, 29 Oct 1999 02:29:11 Patrick Sullivan wrote: >Since I don't have the Halfling or Dwarven Gazetteers (and it might be at >least somewhat pertinent to the current 3E conversion discussion), I'm >curious as to whether rules are given for either of these races' couplings >with humans. It seems logical that these races would be more likely to be >able to produce half-breeds with humans than would elves, but then again PC1 >seems to indicate that elves and men are a bit more closely related than one >might think since they can each reproduce successfully with dryads or >hamadryads (although the offspring will always be another dryad) and >halflings and dwarves cannot. With a PC dryad in my current Yavdlom >campaign, I'm trying to figure out exactly what she can do. I'm thinking >that, rather than a "charm person" restricted only by gender, she should be >able only to charm males of those races with which she can reproduce. What >do people think about this possible interpretation? >Thanks >Patrick > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:02:39 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Chronomancy) -- duplicate e-mail Subj: 3E Mystara (Chronomancy) Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com [I apologize in advance for any duplications of my e-mails. I suspect some go lost this afternoon.) > Since OD&D Mystara never mentioned chronomancy, does that mean that the canon 3E Mystara conversion should forbid chronomancy, just like it's been suggested psionics? [Shane] Actually... :o) I recall implying in the original Gaz 3 that time travel was a possibiliy, at least as one of the ways of destroying the Nucleus of the Spheres (that is, preventing its creation in the first place). This does not mean specifically that chronomancy is OK, but that it might be. Naturally, I wouldn't make use of it too often since it could really mess up a campaign, IIRC. I would make this a rare option. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:08:16 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics Greetings. I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Psionics do exist in Mystara, before any AD&D material. They are a part of the Yavdlom culture. Although their powers are not quantified in the rules given in Champions of Mystara, they can easily be done so. In addition the background mentioned that it was an Artifact of Time which caused Yavdlom to be like this, and that their powers fade as they leave the Serpent Peninsula, so it fits quite neatly in the Known World. (Perhaps they're called Yavi powers, rather than Psionics, eh?) IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:10:32 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: [MYSTARA] - Thanegioth Archipelago & My Article Greetings. Just wanted to thank everyone for their submissions for the Archipelago! It's unfortunate, though, that most of the material conflicts, and it's certainly odd to consider that an entire bustling culture could reside in an island chain that's supposed to be haunted and remote. After some thought, I've decided to take all the material given and.. dodge the issue like a dragon hopped up on dandelions. :) I'll let you all wonder what I'll do. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:15:50 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [Part 2A] (duplicate) [For some bizarre reason Part 2 does not seem to get through to the MML -- I've broken it down into two parts. Sorry for the mess). The Known World Most fantasy games are set in a universe, an imaginary world shared by common people and heroes, destitutes and kings. Dungeons, cities, kingdoms, and even whole planets are invented and detailed, offering locations where adventures could take place. The intent of a game world is to provide a familiar background to the players that encourages them to interact with the game's imaginary personalities played by the Dungeon Master. These ties help the Dungeon Master develop plausible adventures in a tangible environment — just like in a movie. This allows players to better relate to their game characters, which makes the game more fun and attractive to the players. In the D&D® Game, there is the Known World. It is a small region on the World of Mystara, where most adventures take place. D&D players are familiar with this setting, because it was introduced in the core rules system — the D&D® Game Cyclopedia. It is called the Known World because for centuries little was known about what lay beyond its shores. With great explorers and invasions however, the Known World slowly grew to include other lands. Mystara is a strange world. It was shaped by ultra-powerful beings called The Immortals. They are the ones who created this world, and then brought it life. Some advocated human cultures, others fostered the civilizations of dwarves, elves, halflings, and even the monstrous kingdoms of the orcs and of the dragons. For the Immortals, a reason exists for all life on Mystara. Mystara has three main continents, Brun, Skothar, and Davania, and several large islands such as the Isle of Dawn, Alphatia, and Bellissaria. Nowadays, the Known World mostly covers the territories of two rival empires, Thyatis and Alphatia, and neighboring kingdoms located in the northern hemisphere, between Skothar and Brun. The best known, most detailed region remains in a very small area of the southeastern corner of Brun. There, in a territory no more than 1,700 miles across, lie over fifteen sovereign kingdoms. Like a mosaic, they offer a wide variety of background flavors, ranging from the sun-baked dunes of Ylaruam to the gentle hills of the Five Shires. All theses nations were fully developed in a collection of supplements called the Gazetteers, one of the best selling Dungeons & Dragons® game products. All of these nations show up on the two D&D® Trail Maps, along with useful information for travellers! The Known World is a setting whose cultures and level of technological development resemble the Europe of our Earth around the 15th century. The Known World hasn't yet developed gunpowder or the printing press, but in many other ways the two worlds are similar. In many regions, the more powerful people rely heavily on magic, perhaps a bit more so than is customary in other fantasy worlds. What makes the Known World so popular is its consistency, its coherence, and its refreshing blend of cultures. Great attention was paid to historical backgrounds, civilizations and philosophies, the people and their leaders, and intricate geographical features of their lands. Relative to its size, the Known World is the most detailed and varied game setting in our field. After the World of Greyhawk™ Setting, developed for the AD&D® Game, the Known World is the oldest game setting and still registers sustained sales in the industry. Even today, the Known World is the object of further expansion. It is described initially in the D&D Game Cyclopedia, and further detailed by a series of accessories (the Gazetteers). Most game worlds are initially described in an accessory product that is separate from the game rules — as is the case with the Hollow World in the D&D Game and all of the AD&D Game worlds. Here are a few of the nations that make the Known World: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos Where it all starts. This nation of the Known World has been the starting point of many of our Entry Level adventures (most B-series modules, for example, were set in Karameikos, as were computer games). This heavily-forested region used to be known as Traladara, a "nation" that was really a loose confederation of independent baronies. Thirty years ago, Stefan Karameikos, an ambitious nobleman of the nearby Empire of Thyatis, traded his ancestral lands to the Thyatian emperor for Thyatian recognition of Karameikos' right to independent rule of Traladara. Spending all his family fortunes on mercenary armies, Stefan Karameikos invaded Traladara, quickly conquering the nation's largest sea-port, Marilenev, and settling garrisons in all the region's larger communities. He renamed the nation after himself: It became the Grand Duchy of Karameikos. The Thyatian rulers, though they control the nation's economic and military might, don't have complete control of the nation. Karameikos is a land where thousands of square miles of dark forests are populated only by animals, by hermit-like loggers and foresters, by forest folk such as elves and centaurs, even by monsters — the Traladaran forests are an ancient home to vampires, werewolves and other dark creatures of legend. Secret Traladaran popular movements oppose the Thyatians, occasionally sabotaging the plans and activities of their rulers. Karameikos is a divided land, its majority Traladaran population ruled by the invader Thyatian population. The Traladarans are a very free-spirited, spiritual people with clothing and names similar to inhabitants of our Earth's Eastern Europe. The Thyatians are a pragmatic and self-centered people, with the conquering instincts of Earth's ancient Romans (with their tastes in entertainment, too). Naturally, the two population elements tend to dislike one another greatly. Ref. GAZ 1 — The Grand Duchy of Karameikos The Empire of Thyatis The Warrior Empire Thyatis is a seaside empire infamous for its violent history, the cunning and treachery of its leaders throughout the millennia, the decadence of its entertainments, and the might of its army. In many ways, it resembles Earth's Roman and Byzantine Empires during the periods when their armies were achieving their greatest victories and their courts were well on their sliding way into decline. Thyatis is the nemesis of Alphatia, its eastern neighbor. They have been at war many times with Alphatia, and the current truce is but a fragile peace that may easily cede to yet another great war — the stakes: control of the Known World seas and the rich colonies on Skothar and Davania. The people of Thyatis admire fighting ability above all else. They tend to be very clever traders. Their politicians, merchants, and ambitious military officers tend to be none too trustworthy, but adventurers don't have to have this personality trait. The capital and perhaps the greatest city of the Known World, the City of Thyatis is justly renowned for the magnificence of its marble architecture and the sophistication and decadence of its noble ruling class. The City of Thyatis is the empire's greatest seaport, with an enclosed and defended harbor, and is the seat of the empire's trade and naval fleets. Like ancient Rome at the height of the Roman Empire, it is avibrant, teeming city whose population is so great that it strains against the very walls, whose people are enthralled by gladiatorial spectacle (the Coliseum seats nearly one-tenth of the city population at a time), and whose Senate is virtually a school for intrigue and deception. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Empire of Alphatia The Magical Empire Master of Magic, Alphatia is a mighty power to the east of the Thyatian Empire, ruling the Islands of Alphatia and Bellissaria, the northeastern coast of Brun, and many other small nations. The original Alphatians are not native to this dimension. Their original very magical home, far away in another plane, was destroyed in a philosophical war of magic. The Alphatians came to the Known World and settled, building a new empire based on magic. There are two kinds of Alphatians: Common and Pure. Common Alphatians have coppery skin and brown (sometimes red) hair; Pure Alphatians, a distinct minority, have very pale white skin and dark hair. Neither race has a cultural advantage in the empire. Unlike the Principalities of Glantri (see later in this Chapter), all people using clerical or wizard spells — spellcasters — are considered nobles; non-spellcasters have few rights. Spellcasters and non-spellcasters live under different sets of laws, laws which (naturally) favor the spellcasters. Prejudice in Alphatia isn't based on skin color, culture, or mystical philosophies; it is based on magical ability or its lack. The imperial capital of Alphatia lies in the southwestern region of the continent. As the capital of a magical empire, it is heavily decorated by and protected by magic spells, and is often called the "city built by magic." It is also the port of call for the awesome Alphatian skyships. Ref.: Dawn of the Emperors Boxed Set The Emirates of Ylaruam The Arabian Desert This is a desert land, all blazing sun, rolling dunes, and widely-separated oases, similar in appearance and the culture of its people to the medieval-era Arabian peninsula of our Earth. In recent centuries, the Thyatians to the south and Alphatians to the far east have come to Ylaruam to conquer; they moved in, the Thyatians from the south and the Alphatians from the north, and fought in the center, their wars going on for decades until the Ylari people threw them out. The Alasiyan culture which is dominant in Ylaruam is as harsh as the desert that spawned it. The Ylari greatly admire the desert warrior, the turbaned hero with his flashing scimitar and noble desert steed. Magic use is forbidden here; magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known. On the other hand, clerics are venerated in this land. The Ylari follow the philosophies of Al-Kalim, a warrior and teacher who embarked on a Path to Immortality a century ago. His dream was of the Desert Garden, all the desert lands of Ylaruam transformed by work and cooperation into the greenest and fairest of lands; when the Ylari need something to unite them, they use the words of Al-Kalim. Though the clans and tribes of Ylaruam often war with one another, they willingly forget their differences to band against foreign invaders... and then just as willingly renew their internal struggles once the invasion is thrown back. Ref.: GAZ 2 — The Emirates of Ylaruam. [END OF PART 2A) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:15:56 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [Part 2B] (duplicate) The Principalities of Glantri The Eccentric Wizards This mountainous northern land is a magocracy, a land ruled by magic-users. In this country, clerics are outlawed (they're sentenced to death when found). Glantri is divided into many principalities, each of which has its own ruler, and laws. Aalban is famous for the machines and devices its craftsmen make. Belcadiz is home to elves who are famous for their metalworks and their fine black lace; the elves in this nation live more like humans than elves, dwelling in fine houses and cities rather than woodland communities. Bergdhoven is famous for its flowers (and the dyes and perfumes which come from them), its cheeses, and its jewelry and gemcutters. Blackhill is best-known for the quantity of its fruits and vegetables, and for the coal mined here. Boldavia is a major supplier of salt (mined by convicts and slaves) and ice (shipped hastily to Glantri City and other places). Caurenze is best known for its graceful marble architecture, its gold mines and fine weaponry. Erewan is a land of more traditional sylvan elves, who are fine bowyers, woodworkers, and artists. Klantyre is a major supplier of wool and mutton, lumber and heavy woodwork. Krondahar is a producer of silk and leather goods, fine beef and yogurt. New Averoigne is best-known for its wines and the culinary arts. The population is a blend of many ancient cultures, including very urban elves, sylvan elves, descendants of Alphatians, Thyatian colonists, Traladarans, and even races from other dimensions. Ref.: GAZ 3 — The Principalities of Glantri The Islands of Ierendi A Tropical Adventurers' Paradise It is a very peculiar kingdom — the Known World's capital for adventurers, and a vacation spot for retired dungeoneers! Even the King and Queen are chosen among the best adventurers, and get to rule over some of the richest people ever, as well as the true native Ierendians, the very kind Makai tribes. Ierendi consists mostly of a large tropical island in the Sea of Dread, just south of Brun. The kingdom includes such colorful places as Safari Island where mockup dungeons and monster hunts are available for would-be adventurers among the common folk! Depending on how much a customer is willing to pay for entertainment, treasures can be just as fake as the monsters. Other places nearby also include Fletcher Island, a place for medieval tourists seeking peace and tranquility under a coconut tree, Alcove Island, a nest for buccaneers and pirates, or Aloysius Island further to the south which is a harsh penal colony, as well as a heaven for gold miners and lizard men. Come to Ierendi, again and again! Ref.: GAZ 4 — The Kingdom of Ierendi The Forest of Alfheim The Faerie Woods This is the homeland of sylvan elves. Once a featureless plain, it was magically transformed into a deep, dark forest — one that is ominous to humans and other races but cheerful to elves. This is a land of enormous trees, of elven cities made up of tree-houses hundreds of feet in the air and connected by wooden catwalks. It's a place where few non-elves come unless they are invited... or invading. The people of Alfheim are all elves — except residents of Alfheim Town (10,000 humans, 300 dwarves, 800 halflings, and a few others). The elves here are much as they are in other parts of the world: Lithe and mysterious, magical and merry, they are followers of nature and growing things. They are no friends of the dwarves in Rockhome or the humanoids in the Broken Lands. Alfheim is located entirely within the Republic of Darokin, with whom they maintain cordial ties. Their worst foes are the Shadow Elves whose realm lies deep underground. Their gloomy caverns can reach the heart of Alfheim (see Shadow Elves later in this section). Ref.: GAZ 5 — The Elves of Alfheim The Mountains of Rockhome The Dwarven Citadel This is a land of fertile valleys surrounded by high, treacherous mountains. Rockhome is the land of the world's dwarves, and its thick ring of mountains is well-suited to them both defensively and aesthetically. The dwarves build their communities of strong stone; they're famous for their engineering skills. Many of Rockhome towns and villages are either partially or completely built underground, particularly in the large natural caverns which riddle this territory. This potent combination of surrounding mountains, defensive stone fortifications, and underground communities makes Rockhome difficult to invade. Almost all residents of Rockhome are dwarves. The dwarves of Rockhome seem aloof, surly and suspicious to outsiders, but they are merry and friendly when among their own kind. Ref.: GAZ 6 — The Dwarves of Rockhome Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland Three Flavors of Norsemen These three nations, living in chilly northern seaside lands, are all similar to Earth's ancient Viking cultures at various eras. The Soderfjord Jarldoms is a poor nation full of contentious jarls (earls) and plagued by humanoid invaders. Vestland is a mainland country with a history of military achievement. Ostland is an island nation with a great tradition of seamanship and piracy. The men and women of Soderfjord, Vestland, and Ostland are a tall, fair, rugged breed. Shaped by their environment and their histories of warfare and noble adventure, they're a very aggressive lot. Ref.: GAZ 7 — The Northern Reaches The Five Shires The Halfling Lands This seaside nation north of Ierendi is the homeland of the halflings ("hin"). Though the hin here have been three times ruled by outsiders (twice by orcs, once by dwarves), the Five Shires are now ruled entirely by hin, and constitute a strong, independent nation with a strong army and navy. The Five Shires region is a broad, deeply-forested piece of rolling land. The land is very fertile and hin farmers can get two or three harvests per year; the Five Shires export a lot of grain to Darokin, Glantri and Karameikos. The Five Shires really is a nation divided into five regions, called shires, each of which is semi- independent and ruled by a sheriff. The Shires include Seashire, Highshire, Eastshire, Heartshire, and Southshire. The great majority of residents of the Five Shires are halflings. But, while most humans think that halflings are peace-loving and harmless, there are many halfling adventurers and buccaneers in this region. Ref.: GAZ 8 — The Five Shires The Minrothad Islands The Sea Merchants They are located east of Ierendi, next to the Empire of Thyatis. Also called the Minrothad Guilds, they are notorious for their naval power and great wealth. It is a nation run by Merchant Princes, literal barons of the Sea of Dread and life line for many of the coastal cities on the Sea of Dread. A large proportion of the people are elves who developed an attraction for things of the sea. On Traders Island, the population is evenly divided among humans and elves, but on the next largest island of the Guilds, Alfeisle, the vast majority consists of elves. These are a peaceful people who acquired great knowledge of the sea, navigation, ship building, and commerce. They benefit from a friendly relationship with their great neighbor, the Empire of Thyatis, and are rumored to have ties with many other distant realms such as Alphatia, mysterious kingdoms in Davania, and the Great Hule far to the west of the Known World. The Minrothad Guilds keep their navigation rutters very secret. They are the naval counterpart of the land-based Republic of Darokin (see later in this Reference Guide). Ref.: GAZ 9 — The Guilds of Minrothad The Broken Lands The Unhuman Tribes This is a wasteland of rugged hills and mountains, infertile valleys and canyons, and blasted plains and deserts. Long ago, it was a rich land, but it was smashed by a techno-magical disaster which changed the very face of the world. Since then, it has been an ugly and useless land shunned by humans and demi- humans. Because none of these races want the Broken Lands, this region has become home to the humanoids — the orcs, kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, trolls, and other races who resemble humans but hate them and cannot seem to compete with them. The humanoids of the Broken Lands are divided into countless numbers of loosely-allied tribes. They are united only in that they obey King Thar and mass together under his decree to raid surrounding nations for food, slaves and wealth. A vast network of caverns and tunnels exists underneath the Broken Lands. Occasionally, humanoids venture into galleries that lead them far into the heart of neighboring countries, especially Rockhome, Alfheim, and Darokin. Some go deep enough to even reach the dark lands of the Shadow Elves (see later in this Reference Guide). Earthquakes regularly wreak havoc on these tunnels, sometimes obliterating entire migrating tribes. Ref.: GAZ 10 — The Broken Lands The Republic of Darokin The Caravan Empire It is the third largest nation of the Known World, after the Empires of Thyatis and Alphatia. This republic is one of the greater economic and diplomatic powers in the region because it maintains common borders with ten other nations. Darokinians are the wheelers and dealers of the Known World. For them, all is fine as long as business is good. Darokinians are known as the Trail Builders. They are the ones who mount expeditions into wildlands to open new routes to distant kingdoms. The Darokinians are fond of creating enterprises that will seek new wealth far beyond the common trails. They own many of the caravans that travel the Known World, from Norwold to the Great Hule. The worst foe of Darokin lies on the northern border: The Orcs of King Thar. These non-human creatures constantly raid the caravans travelling between Glantri and Darokin. The orcs also sacked the city of Corunglain several times in history. Ref.: GAZ 11 — The Republic of Darokin [END OF PART 2B] Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:25:35 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Multiverse) -- duplicate Subj: 3E Mystara (Multiverse) Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com This well-explained-straight-from-the-mouth-of-the-Mystara-guru-behind-the-scenes look into the misdevelopment of Mystara is about the only thing that could've made me a total convert to the canonicity of a psionics ban on Mystara. [Shane} LOL! I'm glad you see it this way! > Since I'm a real stickler for canon, you're one of the few people from whom I would accept an "overruling" of published material (even 2E material). I now firmly believe that canon 3E Mystara should explicitly exclude psionics, and that Mystara was never really meant to have psionics (and that Bellaynians don't speak Japanese ;-)). If anything, psionics are totally absent from the Known World and may be an option in the Savage Coast, at least to accomodate 2E players that have been running their SC campaign with psionics. In this case I think they should be limited to the SC. Another option would be to say that psionics are alien to this world -- they don't occur among native life and cannot be genetically passed along to progeny on Mystara. In other words, outer-planar or non-Mystaran space visitors might have them. > Do you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed sets, RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should pretty much be ignored all together in relation to canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some percentage of that material as canon. I think I would accept historical and/or factual data about the setting, but not changes made that had anything to do with 2E rules. It would be otherwise too hard to back-pedal and rewrite historical data that's already published. It's not an easy subject, that's for sure. > What do you think, IYO, would be the most proper way of looking at the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to Mystara's multiverse? No connection with Spelljammer; it belongs to another dimension and so is irrelevant to Mystara. Perhaps some links with Planescape -- these are DM options I would think. > I know your "3E Mystara Summary" says that 3E Mystara will officially be a separate universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new "Warriors of Heaven" book contradict this? It does. I don't have "warriors of heaven" so I can't really comment on this. Since "WoH" isn't kosher with 3E, and since I generally do not consider 2E as "canon", the point is moot, IMO. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:25:58 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Subj: 3E Mystara (Psionics) Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com > The brain collector, though superficially similar to the mind flayer, is a very different creature (the BC walks on 6 crab-like legs vs. the bipedal illithid, for just one of several obvious examples), and should have its own separate monstrous compendium sheet. [Shane] Agreed. That one sounds really silly. > Anybody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC, kenkus are Oriental psionic bird-men. Like I said, I have no idea what Mystaran product they appeared in, but someone on the MMB mentioned that there are Mystaran kenkus. Can someone clarify this more? I don't recall any kenkus being used in Mystara. Must have been an off-hand comment (???). Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:26:20 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? Subj: 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com > It would be really helpful if we could see the working notes of the TSR team that was preparing the never-released Mystara boxed set that you [Bruce] mentioned. [Shane] I have no idea where this may be, especially following TSR's move to Seattle. (I don't have it if that's what you were hoping for). > I wonder if there's any chance in hell that that you could use your mysterious connections to find out if that information still exists, and if it could be collected and shared with you or us to provide us with an intermediate, almost canon, step between OD&D and 3E? (Mysterious connections???) I'll check on that... > Mystaran kits back to classes for 3E. When I say "substantial", I mean kits like the "philosopher" (=OD&D cleric) and the "defender" -- professions which are unique enough to stand on their own as 3E classes. Any others? > I get the feeling that the 2E Mystara designers (RS/SC included) went a little overboard on the whole "kit" concept -- many of those "kits" (ie. the "substantial" ones) should've simply been described as new, Mystara-specific classes I agree entirely with you here. On the other hand, were they all warranted and useful? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:26:45 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Mystics) -- duplicate Subj: 3E Mystara (Mystics) Date: 10/29/99 To: mystara-L@lists.imagicon line.com >> is that psionics can be used to represent >> eastern type mysticism which could easily fit into various regions of >> Mystara. > Mysticism and Psionics are different though. Psionics is things like Pyrokenisis, and Telemechanics. [SteelAngel] BTW, the Monk has been included in the 3E rules. It looks very decent and could be used as the Mystic's closest equivalent in 3E Mystara. It isn't identical to the OD&D Mystic, but the description is exciting enough players probably won't lose much sleep over the translation. I won't otherwise belabor the point about psionics since you already know my views on this (Mysticism: Yes! Cynicism, No!) :o) Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics)) I think I'd have to agree w/ Jeff. I can't speak *for* either Bruce or Shane, but I've chatted with both of them on the Mystara-chat almost every Wednesday for the last month or so and they both seem to play nicely there :) - --- jdaly wrote: > I'm not getting the hostility. I think you might be > misreading it. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mr. Darknerd > To: > Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 7:42 PM > Subject: Shane vs Bruce (was Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E > Mystara (Psionics)) > > > > I think these comments are seem a little hostile. > I hope this message > board does not become discouraging. I've noticed > other comments before that > seemed like an attack towards Bruce. > > > > > > >While we're here, Bruce, what's your opinion on > > >chronomancy in Mystara? Any other "Things that > were > > >Never meant to Be" that you could share with us? > Do > > >you view the 2E Mystara stuff (incl. the M-boxed > sets, > > >RS, SC, and the Almanacs) as material that should > > >pretty much be ignored all together in relation > to > > >canonicity, or would you prefer to accept some > > >percentage of that material as canon. If you > accept > > >some of it, what sort of elements do you > generally > > >accept, and which do you generally reject? What > do you > > >think, IYO, would be the most proper way of > looking at > > >the Spelljammer/Planescape cosmos in relation to > > >Mystara's multiverse? I know your "3E Mystara > Summary" > > >says that 3E Mystara will officially be a > separate > > >universe from the SJ/PS worlds, but doesn't the > > >inclusion of Mystara's Immortals in the new > "Warriors > > >of Heaven" book contradict this? What's your > opinion > > >on WoH's inclusion of Immortals then? Note that > I'm > > >undecided on these matters, so it doesn't matter > to me > > >which way you lean. (Ie. don't pull any punches.) > > >Thanks. > > > > > >Shane > > > > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > > http://www.hotbot.com > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body > of the message. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of > the message. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #476 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 477 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - A request... [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara - The Blackmoor Set [MYSTARA] - Bruce's files Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics and 3E Mystara Options) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there? Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics and 3E Mystara Options) Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:41:47 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics >I just wanted to call attention to the fact that Psionics do >exist in Mystara, before any AD&D material. They are a part >of the Yavdlom culture. Although their powers are not >quantified in the rules given in Champions of Mystara... While I admit that I am not especially knowledgeable about psionics, but how does prescience equate to psionics? Champions of Mystara clearly indicates that one of the specific powers of the artifact is to grant beings of mixed elven and human blood the power to see the future. While this ability may well equate to a psionic ablilty, I disagree that it could accurately be called "psionic." This is an innate ability of some people of Yavdlom which has nothing to do with mental powers but rather with the manifestation of the powers of a specific artifact. The seers of Yavdlom have clearly established a well-defined system, but they do not improve these abilities with time nor do they gain any other psionic abilities. IMO, this is nowhere near as strong of evidence as the text in the Red Steel stuff. Also, this is one of the reasons that I'm reluctant to have half-elves running around Mystara unless they are confined to the Savage Coast by the Red Curse. If half-elves bred true and were not restricted to a very specific area, they could easily conquer the world, starting with even just a small island in the Western Thanegioth Archipelago. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:10:33 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore At 03:57 PM 10/29/99 -0400, DM wrote: > >Okay, I'm aiming right at the spoiler at the beginning: if you say they >were Christian warriors in the introduction, then what should we think of >Brother Simon's patron? And who granted him his spells once in Mystara?... >this could be a little tricky, don't u think? Not really, though I think some people may find some of my proposals a bit disconcerting, depending on their religious convictions. 1) Simon recieves no spells. Easy one. 2) Simon is not a Christian, but follows a native Mystaran Immortal. 3) Some other Immortal (for reasons of his/her/its own) is granting the Christian clerics their spells. 4) Christian clerics gain their spells seemingly without any sort of Immortal patronage. Something that astounds many other clerics. (Here comes the controversial one) 5) The "God" of Christianity is simply another Immortal. Two possibilities here: 5a) Jesus Christ is the Immortal in question, having ascended to Immortality following his crucifixion. 5b) Christ was simply the mortal avatar of an Immortal that is known as God. His "real" name may be Yahweh, or any similar combination. Justification for 5 can be found among the transplanted belief systems of other cultures- the "Gods" of the Norse and Greek pantheons, Egyptian, Sumerian... I don't recall offhand if Buddhist or Hindu belief systems were ever made into AD&D "Gods", but if so, then why not Christian/Judaism belief systems? Again, this part is probably going to be very controversial, and it is very easy to divorce the Christian connections I made in the article and substitute them with either generic "Laterran" Immortals, or else with just a general "faith" that the Klantyrians had. >Why didn't u simply establish McGregors on Laterre, which is something >different than RW earth, it's a low fantasy earth (Dimension of Myth?)? IMO, the world of Laterre *is* the RW earth. It is based on the short stories by Clark Ashton Smith, which are set in medieval France. I personally really dig the option of tying it into our RW earth, and when the Followers discussion came up a week or so ago on this list, that was sort of the general idea that led to this writeup. Again, it is easy to divorce the RW connections without totally dismissing the origin story. Back to the question, though. If you take the short stories as is, with the characters that appear there, you cannot (IMO) also divorce the RW ties that are firmly established in most of the short stories (there are dates and places that are directly mentioned in the stories that connect to the RW earth). If you are going to divorce the characters from their connections to the stories, then I don't personally see the point in keeping the characters in the first place, really. The whole point of making the connection to the CAS stories was to (in spirit anyway) gain access to the rich, RW feel they provided. But, again, this was just an optional way of viewing the origins of the McGregors, d'Ambrevilles, and the Followers of the Claymore. It is really easy to divorce any non-essential RW information that individual DMs feel uncomfortable with, without destroying the gist of the article. (BTW, I really hope this doesn't turn into a religious discourse here on the list, save where it might be applicable to Mystara. If it does, I apologize in advance for broaching the subject in any way, shape, or form.) - ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:07:49 -0500 From: Theron Bretz Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A request... Well, freelancer Aaron Allston is busy writing Star Wars (and other) novels and getting his name on the best seller list. The last I heard, the only gaming material he's working on currently is a series of Champions supplements to be distributed electronically. His web site, for the curious, is at http://www.io.com/~allston Theron Bretz Houston, TX - -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Sullivan To: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 5:47 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - A request... >I remember a couple years ago Bruce and perhaps others posted an overview of >the old TSR people who had worked on Mystara and where they are now. If >someone still has those posts, I think the list would benefit from seeing an >overview of where all the founders of Mystara are now, particularly as we >are seriously considering attempting to fill those shoes with the 3E >conversion. I know Ann Dupuis occasionally shows up on the list, and it >would seem that she, at the very least, would be another excellent resource >in expanding Mystara :~) >Patrick > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:14:46 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara - The Blackmoor Set Mr. Heard, Oh Knowledgable One, Is there any information from that planned Blackmoor set in existance, and if not then were there ideas in your mind as to how that whole "reappearance" would take place. I would relish an opportunity to write that set for you, I just need some specs on what you envishioned. I am something of a Blackmoor fanatic. Feel free to reply via private email, if you wish. Kevin Powers kjp@student.umass.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:32:48 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: [MYSTARA] - Bruce's files Just wanted to write a quick "Thank You" to Bruce for posting those files. It was good to see a little behind-the-scenes of what was going on and what was planned for TSR. Some of those products looked like they would have been truly cool (I would have LOVED to have seen those Fantasy City products, especially!), and it would have been very interesting to see what things would have been like. Thanks, John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:31:42 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore - ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Theisen > (BTW, I really hope this doesn't turn into a religious discourse here on > the list, save where it might be applicable to Mystara. If it does, I > apologize in advance for broaching the subject in any way, shape, or form I'm very much against Christianity being brought into the game, except by allegorical means. This is due to being pro-Church, rather than anti-Church. I don't want to see anyone muck it up. I'm saying this minutes after watching a straight-to-video Joan Of Arc, in which history has been chucked out the window. People really burn me up... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:06:00 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore >I'm very much against Christianity being brought into the game, except by >allegorical means. This is due to being pro-Church, rather than >anti-Church. I don't want to see anyone muck it up. Personally I agree. >I'm saying this minutes after watching a straight-to-video Joan Of Arc, in >which history has been chucked out the window. >People really burn me up... Well, you might have to wait awhile to be canonized..... But sitting through such a video where Joan is played by someone other than Leelee Sobieski certainly makes you sound like a martyt ;-P Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:25:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara via 2E Mystara? [was (Flying on Fumes)] In a message dated 1999-10-29 20:55:33 Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > I think the Avenger should become a completely new and unique class for D&D3E > much like the Assassin. The Druidic Knight can also become a class, or > perhaps a kit of the Ranger. There is just one problem with making the Mystaran Paladin, Avenger, Druidic Knight, and Druid into classes -- they actually seem to work better as multi- class combinations. In each case the character starts out as a member of a simpler class (Cleric for the Mystaran Druid, Fighter for the other three) and only much later acquires the abilities of another class (Cleric for the Paladin and Avenger, Druid for the Druid and Druidic Knight). If you makes these character types into "classes", then a player must select them from 1st level -- which goes very much against the intent of these character types as "advanced options". A better way to work these types is to have a character who wishes to pursue one of these options join the appropriate organization. Then, when he next gains a level, he gains 1st level ability in the new class. We could then come up wih rules for each organization to define how he is to advance in his two classes from then on. I think this approach would be more flexible than making new classes to cover these character types. If we want to come up with unique classes for Mystara, maybe we should consider the rake and the forester as possibilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:25:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - LOTR movie (was D&D movie) In a message dated 1999-10-29 01:03:17 Eastern Daylight Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: > [MURPHY Jason] From what i heard....the writers may have merged the > Arwen and Eowyn characters. This sort of thing cannot be entirely unexpected > as books have so many characters. The writers will have to cater to a low > common denominator (hopefully not the lowest) and making an audience keep > track of many important characters may simply be too much for people looking > for light entertainment. I sincerely hope that isn't so! In fact, I doubt that it is -- I could have sworn seeing the two roles of Arwen and Eowyn being assigned to different actresses, although at the moment I cannot recall either of their names. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:25:03 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - No Mermen in Mystara? In a message dated 1999-10-29 11:31:03 Eastern Daylight Time, ohadshm@inter.net.il writes: > But evolutionaly speaking, if there ever was a mutation like that, it will > spread out very fast as it gives a tremendous advantage to swimming velocity. > (compare a human scubadiver with a dolphin...) The mutation would spread if they could breed -- which would be doubtful given the major rearrangement of their reproductive organs that would be required. > Also, someone mentioned that inorder to breed with humans (ala Zindryl) > merrow would have to be two tailed. well Im not going to get into too graphic > (and gruesome) details, but how the hack do merrows mate in the first place? > (with each other). If they have hidden penis-like organs (like sharks and I > think whales two) they woudnt have a problem "doing it" with humans, but an > open system like most fish have can cause some problems... Guppies have no problems mating -- in fact, they do it often enough that you can easily catch them in "the act" while watching at them at a pet store. To complete the analogy, guppies do not lay eggs but give birth to live young. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:32:14 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore > > >I'm saying this minutes after watching a straight-to-video Joan Of Arc, in > >which history has been chucked out the window. > >People really burn me up... > Well, you might have to wait awhile to be canonized..... But sitting > through such a video where Joan is played by someone other than Leelee > Sobieski certainly makes you sound like a martyt ;-P > Patrick Hey! You know the one! I didn't have much trouble with her. She's pretty, and she has a husky voice. She could have been alright, had the movie been more historically accurate. Why did they feel the need to bring in the King Arthur stuff, for instance? And why...oh why...did some idiot think it would be kewl to have the king played by Doogie Howser MD?? Okay, enough off topic... *sigh* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:39:30 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics and 3E Mystara Options) On the topic of Psionics: I've never actually *used* psionics in any RPG I've played (including 1E AD&D), however, I have always thought it was an intriguing concept. With respect to Mystara and Psionics, I have recently been developing a variant of FUDGE rules specifically for *my* Mystara campaign (No, they aren't finished; Yes, I'll share them with the list when they are more-or-less done). In this context, I have been toying with the idea of including a very basic set of Psi rules. Specifically, I was thinking of applying a limited form of Psi as an explanation of the unusual precognitive powers available to the Divinarchy of Yavdlom. Another place where it seemed, to me, that Psi rules would be an interesting "counter explanation" is with the "charm" abilities of the Kopru. From an "In Game" point of view, those rare instances where psionics play a role, the "average man on the street" probably perceives them as some form of standard Magical control. However, if it is described appropriately by the DM, standard Magic casters would be able to tell that there was something "not quite right" about these particular powers. (As an aside, one advantage to a psionics based power is that it shouldn't STOP during the "times of no magic"!) So, you see, I sort of like the idea that "psionics" *might* be available, in some very limited and/or specific ways within some areas of Mystara, but that, on the whole, they are not. Or at least, not in main areas of the "Known World". Getting back to 3E Mystara... Assuming Psionics is included in 3E (I know that they don't plan to included in the initial 3E PHB) I like the suggestion made by a several individuals that our conversions should recommend that (a) Psionics should generally not be available to PC's and NPC's from the primary "Known World" area (i.e., from Alphatia to Darokin) and (c) if the DM wishes to to use Psionics, it can be made available, for PC's and NPC's from some of the other areas of Mystara, like the Savage Coast. With those suggestions in place, I wouldn't mind seeing our 3E Mystara conversion page include some examples of "Optional Rules" for some *limited* forms of psionics for those Mystara communities, races and/or monsters where they can be neatly explained within existing "canon" OD&D history and other details. By providing these 3E inspired psionics rules as "Optional" for 3E Mystara, we give those DM's who like to use Psionics quick samples of how to fit them in without "disturbing" the flavour and concept of Mystara too much, without appearing to imposing them on DM's who prefer to keep their Mystara "psionics free". In fact, now that I think about it, the idea of "Optional" 3E inspired rules could be applied to any thing about converting Mystara to 3E that are particularly 'controversial': We start by defining the "standard" race/classes of 3E Mystara as the ones we all know and love from OD&D for the Known World. Then the rest of the conversion document consists of "options" with details of how 'non-standard' class/races could be fit into the existing "canon" of Mystara -- i.e., due to rare or unusual circumstances, by allowing them in regions not part of the "Core" of the Known World, by defining a "Fringe" group/region/etc. where they could appear, etc. The advantage of this approach would be that we could make it very clear how to mesh 3E Mystara and the OD&D canon, but still provide existing 3E players access to as many of the rules they are familiar with. What do other's think of this idea? Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:51:37 -0700 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) IronWolf wrote: > To me, there's only one viable place to have Psionics in Mystara: Yavdlom. When > developing my campaign handbook, I worked long and hard on the subject, and came > up with this: > [...snip interesting explanation...] See, this is exactly the kind of "option" for psionics that I was thinking of. It is a "limited form", that fits within the existing history and details for Mystara. But, if the DM doesn't like to use Psionics, then she can still explain the Psychic abilities of Yavdlom as just some kind of Magical Effect of the Artifact and nothing more. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:12:03 +0100 From: "Paul George Dooley" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there? The fabled 1000 36th level mages of Alphatia. How many actually could get what they 'wished' for? Scarily enough if we grant them the same priveliges as PC's then quite a few. IIrc in oD&D you can raise an ability 1 point by sacrificing 2 points from elsewhere. This means that 75% of those with 17 Int could have 18 and well over half of those with a 16 could also have an 18 right the way down to the mage with base Int 12 and 17+ in Str and Wis. Then you add on the magical effects of items such as the 'wheel of fortune' and those items in AC4 and it could be as much as 1 in 10 if not more, (Someone else can do the math), and what with clerics of Rad and Razud both getting a Wis bonus its even easier for a cleric to get 18 Wis. So there could be at least a couple of THOUSAND wishes EVERY day on Mystara if all those who could possibly take it did so. Reminds me of that old Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' This probably explains the whole Wrath snafu, as the Immortals couldn't keep track what each other was doing due to the high static level of 'background wishing'. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:25:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Dragon Magazine CD? In a message dated 1999-10-29 06:12:47 Eastern Daylight Time, jason.murphy@mitswa.com.au writes: > Orcwars wouldnt happen to be the tongue in cheek game that came out > with the "Orcs of Thar" gaz would it? Yep, that's it! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:25:00 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads In a message dated 1999-10-29 05:40:40 Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: > Since I don't have the Halfling or Dwarven Gazetteers (and it might be at > least somewhat pertinent to the current 3E conversion discussion), I'm > curious as to whether rules are given for either of these races' couplings > with humans. It seems logical that these races would be more likely to be > able to produce half-breeds with humans than would elves, but then again PC1 > seems to indicate that elves and men are a bit more closely related than one > might think since they can each reproduce successfully with dryads or > hamadryads (although the offspring will always be another dryad) and > halflings and dwarves cannot. Actually PC 1 is silent on the issue of whether dryads can mate with dwarves and humans -- it simply omits them from the list of races that dryads can mate with. My guess is that dryads prefer the listed races but can mate with any male humanoids. As for half-dwarves or half-halflings arising from matings with humans -- these hybrids should be easier to work out in 3E with level limits and lists of allowed classes and multi-class combinations going out the window. Averaging the abilities of the two parent races should not be too difficult, especially if you hold on to a copy of "Skills and Powers". > With a PC dryad in my current Yavdlom > campaign, I'm trying to figure out exactly what she can do. I'm thinking > that, rather than a "charm person" restricted only by gender, she should be > able only to charm males of those races with which she can reproduce. What > do people think about this possible interpretation? In a sense dryads cannot reproduce with humans or elves -- since the offspring are invariably dryads, it seems that mating with these races simply stimulates dryads to reproduce asexually. I would let a dryad charm any male humanoid, but she will probably limit herself to the "desirable" races given the tendency of charmed males to try to "give her what she obviously wants". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:24:58 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) In a message dated 1999-10-29 04:49:15 Eastern Daylight Time, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > a) The Orc's Head Peninsula Sourcebook (available free > at WotC's site) includes rules for psionic characters. But the Orc's Head Peninsula is subject to the Red Curse and is thus an exception to the usual rules in many ways. Characters from regions subject to the Red Curse may have it manifest in the bizarre way of granting a wild talent in place of a legacy, or they may become full-fledged psionicists instead of Inheritors. Psionics as a manifes- tation of the Red Curse seems to work just fine. > A related question: are psionics mentioned at all in > the Red Steel boxed set? I only have the RS Savage > Baronies set and the online Savage Coast Campaign > Setting and Monstrous Compendium Appendix, none of > which mentions psionics as far as I can tell. If > there's psionic references in the RS box, please > someone post it, or summarize it, so that the material > could be used in this discussion. Yes. Every new race is given a level limit in the Psionicist class (not relevant to 3E, of course). Psionicists gain access to the same kits that wizards do. The relevant paragraph of concern on this issue reads as follows: "The psionicist can be used in a RED STEEL campaign if the DM so desires. However, a psionicist cannot take the Inheritor kit and gain more than one legacy. A character with a psionic wild talent does not gain an initial Legacy (in essence, the wild talent is the Legacy), but can take the Inheritor kit and later gain legacies. > b) There's apparently an explanation (in "Mark of > Amber"?) of how mind flayers (AKA illithids), which > are the ultimate psionic creature, came to dwell on > Mystara. No there isn't -- the encounter with a "mind slayer" takes place in what is basically a nightmare of Prince Etienne. > c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are > psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. They are also mentioned in Dragon #200 as dwelling on the Arm of the Immortals peninsula. However, the material available to me describes them as innate spellcasters (of the illusionist variety) rather than actual psionicists. I think that I once proposed that Mystics be treated as psionicists who use a kit from "Will and the Way" that seemed to have much in common with the Monk class, but given that "real" monks will be restored in 3E there seems to be little reason to retain that proposal. So in summary the only place where psionics seem to be native to Mystara is the Savage Coast, where it can be regarded as a peculiar manifestation of the Red Curse. And of course all bets are off for parties who leave Mystara to adventure in other planes and dimensions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:24:20 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics and 3E Mystara Options) Hey Jenni > With respect to Mystara and Psionics, I have recently been developing a >variant of FUDGE rules specifically for *my* Mystara campaign (No, they >aren't finished; Yes, I'll share them with the list when they are >more-or-less done). I was just looking at the FUDGE system for the first time this evening after someone mentioned that Ann Dupuis is working on it. While I found what little I looked at to be quite interesting, it would be nice if, when you post this, you could include a general overview of the system. >(As an aside, one advantage to a psionics based power is that it >shouldn't STOP during the "times of no magic"!) Actually, this does tie in well to IronWolf's suggestion that the prescience of Yavdlom's natives is psionic, since the artifact continues to function (as would these powers) despite the failure of magic. patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:35:04 +0100 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics >with time nor do they gain any other psionic abilities. IMO, this is >nowhere near as strong of evidence as the text in the Red Steel stuff. Well, keep in mind that "even" in AD&D, psionics is optional. Aside from Dark Sun and a couple of other oddities, every reference I've seen to them (Mystara or otherwise) makes that point very clear. In short, you are not going to find definite "evidence" of there being psionics on Mystara. You may well find a number of potential hooks for including psionics, should you so wish, but thats about it. After all, it IS optional! Me personally, I'm not too bothered about the arguments whether to include them or not - thats upto the individual DM, whether he feels comfortable with them or not. I do include them, I've used psionics in game for several years now, and yes, I think that as they stand they are somewhat overpowered (so I changed the rules). What I am interested about is whether other people have included psionics or not, how they have justified its existence (if they did), and that sort of thing. OK, you've got my angle ;) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:24:58 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > > c) On the MMB, there was mention of kenkus (which are > > psionic AD&D creatures) in some product. After further investigation, I can confidently report that there seems to be no canon material that describes kenku as psionic. The Monstrous Manual (which has psionic statistics for a variety of creatures) gives none for the kenku, and the Complete Psionics Handbook does not mention them. So unless somebody can cite a source that I missed, kenku are not psionic. That means that psionics can be safely disregarded in a 3E Mystara cam- paign (good thing too, since WotC has no plans to publish any new psionic rules until many months after the initial rules are published -- the Dark Sun fans will be hurting for a while), at least at first. But when they do return, we really should use them to refine the Legacies of the Red Curse on the Savage Coast -- psionic "Legacies" make a lot more sense than Japanese rakasta in Bellayne. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #477 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 478 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Immortals and Powers (was 3E Mystara, etc.) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara ckasses Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] [MYSTARA] - Half-Elves (was Yavdlom and Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore [MYSTARA] - Chinese curse (was Just how many 18 Int mages are there?) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara ckasses [MYSTARA] - Kenku, Ki Rin (was 3E Mystara (Psionics)) Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanegioth Archipelago & My Article [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Psionics Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens, Part 4 - PCs & NPCs (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens, Pt. 2 - new spells (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens ... Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign in Darokin Re: [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:25:01 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Immortals and Powers (was 3E Mystara, etc.) In a message dated 1999-10-29 09:55:22 Eastern Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > Your question seems a bit convoluted -- I'm not sure I can answer it > intelligently. What I think is that such discussion is never pointless, > regardless of assumptions. Obviously, there will be deities in 3E and related > rules -- therefore a discussion about involving Mystara-style Immortals makes > sense. At any rate, better that we discuss this now and be ready to be > involved if this becomes an option, than wait until the book is written and > be sorry Mystaran Immortals were ignored once again. It seems to me a > possible opportunity is better than none at all. Another possibility to consider is that if we play things right, we could establish a playable form of Mystaran Immortals as the standard descrip- tion of the Powers for any setting -- especially if the abilities of an Immor- tal/Power are not dependent on a particular cosmological scheme (not out of the question from what I have read of the plans for 3E). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:56:16 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Alignment Languages) In a message dated 1999-10-29 15:01:13 Eastern Daylight Time, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > I...um...think (very unsure though) that alignment > languages had something to do with either Jack Vance's > work (which was definitely the basis for the D&D > fire-and-forget spell system) or the world of Elric of > Melnibone, but these are only vague recollections of > other peoples' theories. I'm hoping someone with a > greater knowledge of fantasy fiction can give a more > informed explanation. I have not read enough of Jack Vance's work for a judgment there, but I can definitely say that the Eternal Champion cycle by Moorcock is not the source of the alignment language concept -- although there is a "High Melnibonean" language that is understood by Chaotic gods and powerful sorcerers. However, ordinary minions of Chaos would not understand that language. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:07:38 -0700 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Yavdlom and Psionics Well, here's my take on the subject. First, just chuck the Red Steel stuff out. If you don't want Psionics on the Savage Coast, don't let them take them. Simple enough. The book says they can have it? No, I say that they can't have it, because I'm the DM, and that's my rule. We shouldn't feel obligated to follow some half-thought idea of psionics in a setting that clearly wasn't developed for it, even though it made it to print. These products are out of print now, and we can (and have) taken creative liberties elsewhere. And Bruce Heard himself said to ignore them! I think a large area of the issue here is that Psionics are a questionable thing for a fantasy campaign in general. It's been my experience that most players who play them are just angling for a way to play a character that isn't shortchanged by magical effects and can get past magical resistance. This is clearly a tactical decision, and severely detracts from gameplay. So I'm not surprised most of us have somewhat of a disgusted attitude towards them, they are clearly something that the hardcore hack-n-slasher gamer and rules lawyer likes, since they're a relatively uncommon medium they can use to manipuate the game system. My favorite aspect of Mystara, one that sets it apart from other campaign worlds, is that we, the creators and players, try to develop the background and culture to support the game system. And I see Yavdlom as an excellent place you can develop psionics for players in a culture and background form, where they are part of something far greater than a set of statistics. The Yavdlom background is very fertile ground in this regard, I urge everyone to read it thoroughly to see what I mean. It's controlled environment, the fading of powers away from the Serpent Peninsula, also means you have control. So what's wrong with that, I ask? Plus, as stated previously, 3e won't probably have them right away anyway, so we don't really need to sweat it. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" Now then, on to Yavdlom. Rob wrote: > >with time nor do they gain any other psionic abilities.  IMO, this is > >nowhere near as strong of evidence as the text in the Red Steel stuff. > > Well, keep in mind that "even" in AD&D, psionics is optional.  Aside from > Dark Sun and a couple of other oddities, every reference I've seen to them > (Mystara or otherwise) makes that point very clear. > > In short, you are not going to find definite "evidence" of there being > psionics on Mystara.  You may well find a number of potential hooks for > including psionics, should you so wish, but thats about it.  After all, it > IS optional! > > Me personally, I'm not too bothered about the arguments whether to include > them or not - thats upto the individual DM, whether he feels comfortable > with them or not.  I do include them, I've used psionics in game for several > years now, and yes, I think that as they stand they are somewhat overpowered > (so I changed the rules).  What I am interested about is whether other > people have included psionics or not, how they have justified its existence > (if they did), and that sort of thing. > > OK, you've got my angle ;) > > Cheerz > > Rob > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:40:27 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara ckasses I think you hit the nail on the head below with your suggestions, assuming that you're talking about 3E Mystara. It seems that with the 3E rules, we'll be able to very accurately 'simulate' many of the cool classes that sprout from Basic DnD, like the Avenger, Halfling Master, and Druidic Knight. With the ability to have more than one class in 3E, it looks like you can take another class even after you've started playing, no matter what your race, so there's quite a lot of flexibility built in to the 3E rules. The more I hear about 3E rules, the easier a 3E Mystara sounds to create. One question on a slightly different vein that came up earlier ... how are humanoid/monster classes going to be dealt with? There was a discussion about humanoid characters having either barbarian or fighter as their base class, and I wonder how WotC is going to get around kobolds and goblins with d12 hit dice (which is what I thought barbarians use for rolling for hit points). Maybe kobolds will be thieves? That almost seems to fit, since they're often portrayed as not-the-greatest-warriors. I'm just shooting some thoughts out here, and wondering what take other people have come up with on this potential issue. John Hofmann > There is just one problem with making the Mystaran Paladin, Avenger, > Druidic > Knight, and Druid into classes -- they actually seem to work better > as multi- > class combinations. In each case the character starts out as a > member of > a simpler class (Cleric for the Mystaran Druid, Fighter for the > other three) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:05 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... In a message dated 1999-10-30 02:55:51 Eastern Daylight Time, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > While we're on the subject, I'd like to throw out > question that anyone can feel free to respond to. What > do you think the list of 3E Mystaran "priestly" > classes should include? Here are the ones that can't be accounted for by known or suspected "standard" rules: Dervish (from Gaz 2) Wise Woman (from Gaz 7 -- possibly a wizard class) Master (Halfling, from Gaz 8) Shaman (Goblinoid) Shaman (Ethengar) Shaman (Shadow Elf) Shamani (Atruaghin) Mendoo (Wallara) War Priest (from Red Steel -- may be replaced by Crusader) Obviously one thing we need to do is come up with alternate names for all of these different varieties of "shaman". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:03:33 Eastern Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > Phase V — (The Secret Phase No One Knows about) > > The twin brother of d'Ambreville, under the guise of a wizard's janitor, > pulls the plug on TSR and all the lights go out. (Just checking to see if > you are really reading all this stuff -- BH.) The strange thing is -- this one looks as though it might be a milder version of what really did happen. After all, we all know that the real reason that TSR nearly went bankrupt was because of the way they were abusing Mystara, right? ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:10 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Half-Elves (was Yavdlom and Psionics) In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:56:06 Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: > Also, this is one of the reasons that I'm reluctant to have half-elves > running around Mystara unless they are confined to the Savage Coast by the > Red Curse. If half-elves bred true and were not restricted to a very > specific area, they could easily conquer the world, starting with even just > a small island in the Western Thanegioth Archipelago. I have always subscribed to the theory that there are indeed many "half-elves" wandering around Mystara but that they are not recognized as such -- they are generally regarded as "mostly human", especially by elves. In 3E terms, they generally would have the same class options as humans except that they almost invariably have wizardly talent, which enables them to become wizards even after they start play. Foresters, by this interpretation, would be mostly half-elves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:09 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads In a message dated 1999-10-29 22:15:20 Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > Personally, I like the humanization in the aspect that there is more > diversity, however this does lead toward munchkinism and overcomplex rules. > The OD&D system does not seem to support the concept of a half-elf class or > any other half-? class. I beg to differ -- Bruce Heard introduced half-elves in his Princess Ark series. Of course, his half-elves were more human than elf in terms of abilities. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:08 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:22:54 Eastern Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > Again, I'm not saying psionics, flayers, and rakshasas have NO place in > Mystara. But all three could use some explanation, and would benefit from it. Okay, how's this -- during the time when Etienne was absent from Mystara, he visited such unsavory places as Oerth and Toril. When he was being restored to Mystara in "Mark of Amber", he was still having nightmares about those places. ;) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:13 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore In a message dated 1999-10-29 23:35:00 Eastern Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > I'm very much against Christianity being brought into the game, except by > allegorical means. As I see it, the best way to handle Laterran clerics is to treat them as "philosopher" clerics who gain their powers from their alignments. In terms of their beliefs and rituals, they would obviously have much in common with medieval Christian clergy -- but by making them philoso- phers rather than followers of Immortals you neatly avoid the thorny theological questions that would otherwise be raised. It seems likely from available material that any clerics who came to Mystara from Laterre lost part of their sanity and even more of their memories -- so they would be carrying crosses as their holy symbols without quite remembering just what those crosses are supposed to represent other than being one of the most effective symbols for keeping vampires at bay. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:12 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Chinese curse (was Just how many 18 Int mages are there?) In a message dated 1999-10-30 01:13:44 Eastern Daylight Time, dooley@cableinet.co.uk writes: > Reminds me of that old Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' An interesting point -- no Chinese person that I have asked about this curse is familiar with it from any Chinese source. The best available evidence is that Robert Kennedy made it up in a speech he gave, and nobody bothered to check up on his sources (which in this case don't seem to exist). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:14 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara ckasses In a message dated 1999-10-30 03:42:01 Eastern Daylight Time, djemonk@juno.com writes: > One question on a slightly different vein that came up earlier ... how > are humanoid/monster classes going to be dealt with? There was a > discussion about humanoid characters having either barbarian or fighter > as their base class, and I wonder how WotC is going to get around kobolds > and goblins with d12 hit dice (which is what I thought barbarians use for > rolling for hit points). Maybe kobolds will be thieves? That almost > seems to fit, since they're often portrayed as not-the-greatest-warriors. > I'm just shooting some thoughts out here, and wondering what take other > people have come up with on this potential issue. That would be one possibility -- another would simply be to assume that there is a bigger gap between a level 0 kobold (with d4 or d6 hit points) and a level 1 kobold than there is between a level 0 hobgoblin (with d8+1 to d12 hit points) and a level 1 hobgoblin. At the other end of the scale, there are many races based on monsters with multiple hit dice. Has anyone else given any thought as to how to handle these races? I have my own ideas on this score, but I would rather hold them back if anybody can come up with something semi-official about how such creatures should be handled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:11 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Kenku, Ki Rin (was 3E Mystara (Psionics)) In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:22:54 Eastern Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > I could have sworn there was one of those Chinese unicorns in a Known World > Grimoire. Aren't they psionic? That would be a ki rin. Kenku are mischievous bird-men who are best described as fighter/thief/illusionists in D&D terms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:56:30 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Thanegioth Archipelago & My Article At 09:38 PM 10/29/99 -0400, IronWolf wrote: > >Just wanted to thank everyone for their submissions for the >Archipelago! It's unfortunate, though, that most of the >material conflicts, and it's certainly odd to consider that >an entire bustling culture could reside in an island chain >that's supposed to be haunted and remote. As far as that goes, recall that many of the regions discovered by Prince Haldemar of Haaken in the Voyage of the Princess Ark were once thought to be uninhabited and/or remote, so that alone isn't a reason to *not* put a bustling civilization somewhere (such as the TA) if one decides it would make for an interesting development. That being said, I'm certainly looking forward to whatever it is you might be planning. :) - ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 04:00:22 -0700 From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara and Psionics Just to toss in my two cents, I personally wouldn't be that averse to Psionics on Mystara in some form, though certainly limited. I wouldn't want it to just up and appear across the face of the planet, simply because they are available under (in this case) 3rd Edition rules, but I think there is certainly precedent for their isolated existence. Some have mentioned the Yavdlom people as being possible "carriers" (as it were)- I'd say that's a possibility, but it's probably limited to those of Yavdlom blood (perhaps even only allowed to Yavdlom people living on the Serpent Peninsula, given that their prophetic powers vanished when they moved to the Arm of the Immortals). I.E., distance from the artifact that resides under the Serpent Peninsula would dictate the extent of a Yavdlom's psionic powers (keeping it nicely isolated to the Serpent Peninsula). Other possibilities are the Brain Collector (which has been mentioned), as well as the Kopru- a mind-flayer like creature that has been described as possessing similar sorts of powers to psionics. - ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:58:52 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens, Part 4 - PCs & NPCs (long) In a message dated 17/10/99 13:23:27 GMT Daylight Time, jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: << Inspired by David Eddings perhaps? >> Just a little...;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:59:01 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens, Pt. 2 - new spells (long) In a message dated 17/10/99 19:07:27 GMT Daylight Time, sg96d355@drexel.edu writes: << Good Lord, Carl! You've been mighty busy. When I have a chance to read the whole thing, I'll give you critical commentary, but in the meantime, you've been reading David Eddings' _Belgariad_ again, haven't you? I certainly like yours better, though. Keep up the great work >> Thanks! Hmm...shows how many Mystaran read Eddings, doesn't it? ;-) Carl Q. PS apologies for my silence the last two weeks - just after I set the Sisterhood post, my hard drive died - it's taken two weeks to get it replaced! I'm back, though - and will now work my way steadily through 517 emails....:-) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:59:11 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - The Sisterhood of the Fens ... In a message dated 17/10/99 21:16:21 GMT Daylight Time, strawberry@jamm.com writes: >Omigosh Carl. I'm utterly STUNNED by this AWESOME post of yours. >The back-story, the new spells, new skills and NPC's.... Wow. I don't > know what else to say except that, if I haven't mentioned it before, I > truly love the depth of your creativity when it comes to the stuff you > post. Gosh, that's high praise indeed! Many, thanks, Jenni. This one took a long time to put together - I'm glad it passed muster. >Now then, having gotten the Very Sincere Flattery out of the way, I have > one question about the Spell "Evil Eye": Ah, there's always something....;-) > In this section you say "... magical creatures with more than one 'plus' > in the HD description are immune to the spell." By "more than one > 'plus'", do you actually mean "more than one 'star'" (i.e., the stars that > are generally used in a creature description as an indication of magical > capabilities) or did you mean that a magical creature which is 2+2 HD or > 3+3 HD is immune but one that is 1 HD or even 4+1 HD is not? I suspect it > is the former, but I wanted to make sure... You're quite right; I DID mean stars, not plusses. D'Oh! Thanks for spotting that! > BTW: If it wasn't clear to you from the Very Sincere Flattery, there is > an extremely high chance that The Sisterhood of the Fens is going to end > up in my Darokin Based Campaign :-) Wow! The Highest Praise Of All!! Many thanks again for the kind comments! (and apologies for the late response....no computer for the last two weeks...:-(( ) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:59:13 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Campaign in Darokin In a message dated 17/10/99 21:16:36 GMT Daylight Time, strawberry@jamm.com writes: > I just realized I never answered Jim's question about Darokin Campaigns: This sounds great, Jenni! I love hearing about other people's campaigns (now I no longer have one of my own :-( ). "Map of the Dread Pirate Roberts", huh? Yep. I like "The Princess Bride", too...;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:59:18 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About metallic dragons in Mystara In a message dated 26/10/99 00:02:04 GMT Daylight Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: > PS. Coming soon to a lair near you... the PAPER DRAGON!!! ....who follows that great (if unknown) Dragon-Immortal, Ori'Gami? ;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:59:16 EDT From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Shadow Elves In a message dated 21/10/99 15:12:05 GMT Daylight Time, mmontola@cc.hut.fi writes: > Has anybody developed Shadow elves any further? Or created magic items > and spells of Shadow-elven origin? Well, I created the Skinwing Jerkin as a Shadowelf magic item...which I'm sure must be on Stan's site by now. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:16:48 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) In a message dated 10/29/99 8:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, I reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with Spelljammer more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to understand..) >> I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies making factual changes to "Mystara space". I do not entertain the idea of paying lip service to yet another OOP campaign setting that happens be an OPTION for 3E. As you pointed out in your post above, if Spelljammer is just an option in 3E, it means just that: it is not an obligation, therefore it is insufficient as a reason to alter Mystara. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:25:31 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] In a message dated 10/29/99 7:38:43 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com writes: >> how is that there is a great deal of info on Sind and the Serpent Peninsula (mini gazetteers we can say) in the Princess Ark Champions of Mystara boxed set, and no single word on the Heldannic lands? >> The CoM boxed set primarily dealt with the general region of Sind/Yav and not with the northern Known World region. If you want to have an idea of what the HK would have probably looked like, check the stuff I've written for the HK on Shawn's site. Barring another author's views on this, most of what I've described would have eventually transpired into an HK Gaz (minus anything related to the Simbasta, since I came up with that part about a year ago). >>New powers for clerics and avengers, that I suspected from the very beginning! It's a pity u didn't edit those!>> No kidding. That would have been cool. >>Did u plan this adventure at some level or was it just an idea that popped up in your mind? Anyway, did u really wanted to kill off Synn just one year after the end of the Great War?.. or did the module take place in a far future?>> This was a rough idea. Remember, this had been written in 1991 (WotI had not been published yet). So there was a fair bit of guessing and speculation on my part. >>dunno if these City mini gazetteers could have been that useful. Sure, we would have bought them, but I don't think that a DM really needs so much information about ONE SINGLE city to run a campaign.. :)>> Depends on players and their gaming styles. >>I don't think it would have been that useful considering Rules Cyclopedia didn't introduce many new rules and old AC7 stuffed in the Master Set was good enough.>> Actually, this was published and did "okay" for us. No new rules, but a better screen than the one that had been available at the time. >>THIS is a real SHOCK to me! DId u really intend to bring back Blackmoor from the ashes? I didn't understand this: did u want to create a campaign back in Mystara's old days when Blackmoor was still alive (sort of Netheril in FR) or did u plan a FAR FUTURE campaign, where Blackmoor tech resurfaces in Mystara and we have magic in the west and technology in the east, with Davania being the hotbed between these two cultures? Or was it the usual Time traveling campaign à la DA1-4 adventures?>> I thought the description was pretty clear. Did you read it? (see below) >Blackmoor >destroyed itself 1,000 years ago and was "cloned" inside the Hollow World >sanctuary by the Immortals. The Blackmoorians' technological antics finally >upset the Immortals who literally kick them out of the Hollow World. >Blackmoor re-establishes itself on the Known World, after being copiously >trashed by their Immortal (ex)- patrons. [...] Actually, Blackmoor couldn't not have re-established itself in the Known World per se. More likely on Skothar, else I would have had the Immortals create a new island just for them -- perhaps a sort of "Brigadoon". Immortals would have created a magical barrier of some sort (hence the "Brigadoon" idea) to prevent Neo-Blackmoor from messing (too much) with the rest of Mystara. Yes -- this was for real, folks. Could have been a hoot. >>Funny that TSR actually promoted these unknown products for this unknown setting rather then continuing exploiting Mystara trademark.>> You have no idea the kinds of political wrangling and used-car salesmanship that was needed in these days in order to sell any product idea to what appeared to me as an irrational upper-management. The result often seems just as bogus -- although in its own bizarre way, there were actual reasons for how these project eventually developed. Yeah, well the CDs were an unexpected by-product of creative-corporate synergy at work: i.e. you can die now or you can try to survive a certain fiery crash at Tugunska on a certain fateful day!!! We chose the latter, hoping somehow we'd pull a rabbit out of a fur cap. We kinda did... and THEN we died. :D (You have to be an old TSR manager to truly appreciate the "humor" of the above.) >>This is strange: you planned a gaz on an unknown and ignored country like Wendar and didn't promote a Hule gazetteer instead, also knowing the fact that Hule was much more important (politically speaking)?>> Hey, that was the last Known World nation (with the HK). Leave it to me, Marco, and I would have made sure Wendar could no longer be ignored! If you read some of the stuff I wrote about the HK, and later on a series of posts on the MMB about Wendar and the World in Flames timeline, Wendar was getting fairly interesting... so was Thyatis for that matter. ;o) >>Well, this was incredibly interesting Bruce. Did this stuff belong to the previously mentioned Mystara KW boxed set or what?>> No. >>I have seen there is an incomplete summary with page numbers in the first part of your mails, so this prompted me this question. It seems to me you ripped here and there parts of this product, as if you still had hopes to have it published one day. The page numbers refer to the printout's pages. This was the old "in-house" Mystara reference bible. It was never used. I saved it nevertheless. I figured some day I might have some use for it. Whaddaya know? I might indeed... Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #478 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 479 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] re: [MYSTARA] - Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! [MYSTARA] - Player Registry Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! [MYSTARA] - The 3e Mystara Project (was 3E Mystara (Spelljammer)) [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Please Move to the New List ASAP Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [Repost] [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:26:22 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] n a message dated 10/29/99 7:38:43 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com writes: >>Personally, I've always felt that Bruce likes Wendar for some reason. I'm not sure why, and I could be wrong...just a feeling I get... << [Jeff] They got cool mages and very little has been written about them... therefore, they make perfect victims... Ahh, I meant they make a perfect subject to tinker with. :D Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:27:28 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! In a message dated 10/29/99 7:56:15 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com writes: >>All done! Okay -- we can chuck a lot of this stuff, but it was fun seeing >>what we were planning... nah, "planning" is too strong a term here, I'd say >>- -- what our letter to Santa read like back in 1991. :D [Bruce Heard] >>Nay, you don't give yourself enough credit, sir! >> [Kevin Powers] Nice of you to think so, Kevin. Thanks! (Tho, drop the "Mr." -- it kinda feels funny; just plain "Bruce" will do). >>Mr. Heard, would it be too ambitious of me to propose that the Mystara Mailing List finish your un-written Mystara materials? >> We'd have to get them started in te first place! Thanks for the suggestion. How about hashing out the basics first -- such as.... how we're going to handle the gridlock of petty disagreements and hair-splitting revolving around the 3E-Mystara project? :o) >>Certainly, we have the resources; it would simply (perhaps that is too strong a word) be a matter of collaborating and putting some hard work into this stuff.>> No doubt about that. If things go the way I hope, there may indeed be a quite a bit to do. Who else would be better suited to this task but a true & tried group of Mystara fans? >>Your conceptions are too good to never see realized; I would at this point propose the formation of design teams under your ultimate authority (perhaps reviewing the final products) to write these pieces and give Mystara what she should have long-since had.>> Again -- thanks for the nice compliment. Would you be willing to refer to my opinion to "adjudicate" unresolved disputes about what exists or not in Mystara (Spelljammer, Planescape, Psionics, Fuzzy Cubes of Death, ...) ? Assuming of course that we ever get the 3E-Mystara project going AND that I have the physical time to help out. Once we get past 3E-Crash-n' Burn-101 class, maybe then we can think of doing all these neat things from TSR's past! :o) >>In fact, a fellow on the Internet has ALREADY written something of a Blackmoor GAZ; how difficult would bulking that one up with the extras intended for your fabled boxed set be?>> Which extras would these have been? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:28:06 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) n a message dated 10/29/99 7:56:15 PM Central Daylight Time, owner-mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com writes: >>PS for Bruce: did u refer to Tim Beach when u said "the guy who took charge of Mystara conversion to AD&D"?<< Do you have any idea who else that could possibly be? :o) Bruce *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 23:30:27 +1000 From: anakin Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D movie just in case anyone is interested here are some pics from the movie http://www.darkhorizons.com/news.htm erewan laubgaenger wrote: > DM wrote: > > > Hi Pals! > > > > Thanx to Brad McMillan's URL I was able to do an extensive research on the > > topic D&D movie, and these are the interesting parts I thought useful to > > share with you: > > > > "Dave Arneson, the Co-creator of the Dungeons and Dragons game gave the > > lecture on the history of role playing at GenCon this august. He also just > > recently visited the set of the movie. His impression was that the movie > > was going to be great. > > ....... > > If you're interested in the plot, then let me know... > > I am interested in the plot. > could you sen me more informations? > thanks > IBON > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:27:19 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] Then he heads up to Canada, and right in front of Ed Greenwood, slugs Elminster in the jaw. Then he giggles all the way home... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 3:55 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 4 -- duplicate] > In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:03:33 Eastern Daylight Time, > Ambreville@aol.com writes: > > > Phase V — (The Secret Phase No One Knows about) > > > > The twin brother of d'Ambreville, under the guise of a wizard's janitor, > > pulls the plug on TSR and all the lights go out. (Just checking to see if > > you are really reading all this stuff -- BH.) > > The strange thing is -- this one looks as though it might be a milder version > of what really did happen. After all, we all know that the real reason that > TSR nearly went bankrupt was because of the way they were abusing > Mystara, right? ;) > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:28:55 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) *chuckle* Actually, I was thinking in my own campaign, of having the Alphatians responsible for BARRING psionics. When they are gone, all sorts of nasty things can happen. I figure I'm going to introduce psionics by having the illithids invade and beat the snot out of much of the world. Then maybe I'll destroy and remake... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 5:25 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:22:54 Eastern Daylight Time, > jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > > Again, I'm not saying psionics, flayers, and rakshasas have NO place in > > Mystara. But all three could use some explanation, and would benefit from > it. > > Okay, how's this -- during the time when Etienne was absent from Mystara, > he visited such unsavory places as Oerth and Toril. When he was being > restored to Mystara in "Mark of Amber", he was still having nightmares > about those places. ;) > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:32:12 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) *wipes a tear* I love you Bruce. *sniff* - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 9:16 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) > In a message dated 10/29/99 8:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, > mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > > << Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, I > reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed > universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with Spelljammer > more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to > understand..) >> > > I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies > making factual changes to "Mystara space". I do not entertain the idea of > paying lip service to yet another OOP campaign setting that happens be an > OPTION for 3E. As you pointed out in your post above, if Spelljammer is just > an option in 3E, it means just that: it is not an obligation, therefore it is > insufficient as a reason to alter Mystara. > > Bruce Heard > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:00:34 -0500 (CDT) From: CronoCloud@webtv.net (Ron Rogers) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru I just had a thought. What if the Kopru are the ancestors of the Illithids of the other worlds. The functional equivalent of an Illithid Australopithecus or Homo Habilis. They do look a bit similar, especially in the head. Or perhaps the Kopru are the mutated descendants of Illithid explorers. When they entered Mystara their Psionic powers became magical mind influencing powers. Of course, if there is a canon information about Kopru let me know, because I always found them interesting and I have practically no information about them except X1. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:52:09 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 5 of 5] Would anyone be interested in a writeup for Blackmoor in the Hollow World, located on the isle of Jomphur? I can do this one, if there is interest. Kevin Powers kpj@student.umass.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:56:44 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: re: [MYSTARA] - Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga Hey Marco! > I was wondering if anyone has got the adventure Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga. If so, could somebody tell me if it's a good/bad module and why? also, could u tell me the plot of this adventure? > I don't have what you asked for, but I once had an idea about Baba-Yaga in Mystara. I thought about her being the single most powerful and anciant sorceress on Mystara. She is an ogre no less. I don't have WotI and as an alternate timeline, I blamed Baba-Yaga for the great war and the sinking of Alphatia. As she was mad about the humans folishness in dealing with magic (and the cusing of the DoD) she used her power and tricked the immortals, creating the background for the events in wrath. Just a ramble. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:07:11 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) > Would anyone be interested in a writeup for Blackmoor in the Hollow > World, located on the isle of Jomphur? I can do this one, if there is > interest. Hm.. I was looking thru a lot of information dealing with Blackmoor in the Hollow World. In WoTI, it specifically states that Blackmoor blew up before the Immortals could save it. Now I'm not saying this to quash anyone's ideas, but that's what's written. Personally I'd like to see Blackmoor again (I'd make a fun counter to Thimhallan!) On another note, even if Blackmoor was saved, wouldn't the Immortals pull a "Bait and switch" like they did with the Blacklore Elves, and stick the city in some remote region? Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:12:29 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru >Of course, if there is a canon information about Kopru let me know, >because I always found them interesting and I have practically no >information about them except X1. PC3 has quite a few details of the Kopru and makes them a bit less creepy than they are in X1, but I don't think it has anything on Kopru history. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:22:08 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! >We'd have to get them started in te first place! Thanks for the suggestion. >How about hashing out the basics first -- such as.... how we're going to >handle the gridlock of petty disagreements and hair-splitting revolving >around the 3E-Mystara project? :o) IMO these minor details should be worked out. If we're creating a new Mystara canon, I really don't think we've even begun to see the level of argument likely. For example, do we start where Joshuan left off, or do we add the net-almanacs, converted to 3E, to canon? >Again -- thanks for the nice compliment. Would you be willing to refer to my >opinion to "adjudicate" unresolved disputes about what exists or not in >Mystara (Spelljammer, Planescape, Psionics, Fuzzy Cubes of Death, ...) ? >Assuming of course that we ever get the 3E-Mystara project going AND that I >have the physical time to help out. Once we get past 3E-Crash-n' Burn-101 >class, maybe then we can think of doing all these neat things from TSR's >past! :o) It seems like you're the natural arbiter of what goes what stays, and personally I'm willing to support you if you're willing to take that on :) Nonetheless, I think it's important to give people some time to discuss issues before laying down the law. And also to allow quite a lot "to the DM's discretion" if it won't have an earth-shaking impact on the world. For example, if we try to list all 80 PC races and 60 or so classes on Mystara on the main page, we will scare everyone away. But if we make it clear that they are options (heck, I'll never allow giants or sphinxes IMC), I think that can solve a lot of the bickering. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:18:43 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Player Registry Anyone used the player registry feature available on the TSR web site to locate players? Unfortunately, it does not list Mystara as one of the campaign games (or OD&D as a game system). Anyone interested in having something like that on the official Mystara site, but only for Mystara gamers? How tough is that to establish? Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:29:21 EDT From: Ambreville@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! In a message dated 10/30/99 12:41:38 PM Central Daylight Time, pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu writes: >>IMO these minor details should be worked out. If we're creating a new Mystara canon, I really don't think we've even begun to see the level of argument likely. For example, do we start where Joshuan left off, or do we add the net-almanacs, converted to 3E, to canon?<< [Patrick] Actually.. what I suggested earlier is that we take into consideration historical events described in 2E Mystara products, and otherwise refer to OD&D Mystara as the default source of "canon" material. It won't cover everything, but I suspect it may cover a lot. >>It seems like you're the natural arbiter of what goes what stays, and personally I'm willing to support you if you're willing to take that on :)<< ::shrugs:: (What am I getting myself into this time...) >>Nonetheless, I think it's important to give people some time to discuss issues before laying down the law.<< Really??? Awwww.... :o( >>And also to allow quite a lot "to the DM's discretion" if it won't have an earth-shaking impact on the world.<< Darn, you just said out loud what I was quietly thinking of doing... >> For example, if we try to list all 80 PC races and 60 or so classes on Mystara on the main page, we will scare everyone away. But if we make it clear that they are options (heck, I'll never allow giants or sphinxes IMC), I think that can solve a lot of the bickering.<< Indeed. Bruce Heard *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:35:10 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - The 3e Mystara Project (was 3E Mystara (Spelljammer)) Bruce Heard meandered fecklessly... > I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies > making factual changes to "Mystara space". I do not entertain the idea of > paying lip service to yet another OOP campaign setting that happens be an > OPTION for 3E. As you pointed out in your post above, if Spelljammer is just > an option in 3E, it means just that: it is not an obligation, therefore it is > insufficient as a reason to alter Mystara. There probably isn't a bigger Spelljammer fan and supporter than me on this list, but I would certainly agree. The way I see this kind of thing, the best way to do it would have some sort of aboslute baseline conversation. No options, no other settings such as SJ or Planescape. Just the Mystara as presented in OD&D products. Some sort of core conversion document (e.g. converting OD&D NPC's and monsters to 3e stats) and core source material document (e.g. Avengers, Treekeepers, Masters and so on in 3e terms). In addition, though, all sorts of other stuff, as secondary material on whatever site is established. Like psionics, Spelljammer, Planescape, Chronomancer, and so on. These wouldn't be a part of the core, but rather "options". Which leads me to ask: Has there been a lot of discussion on structure? [My new hard drive went bad, and I lost a lot of mail, and figured it would be easier to ask than go back and pore over the many digests] As in, is this going to be a project, with a group of editors, who perhaps vote on what is to be in a "core" document? A central website? Or is it going to be a site with many different versions of conversion rules? Has anything been discussed along these lines? Sure, it is a bit early, as 3e is not even out yet, but I think a lot of guidelines could be developed, and some things can be theorized with some degree of accuracy with all the info that has been released. Bruce? Anyone? Sorry to possibly rehash old material. I am just curious because, depending on how things are organized, I am very interested in. I love Mystara, and intend to move onto 3e (from what I have seen), so working on a conversion seems a natural. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:15:39 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Please Move to the New List ASAP Folks, OK, not to be an Ogre and all, but... I am asking people to move to the new list as soon as they can. As in, if you sit down to post to the old list, stop, suubscribe to the new list, then post there. The two week time frame was not so people could suubscribe to the new list at their leisure, but rather so people who might not be able to check their e-mail in a week or so won't miss out (e.g. some one vacation). So, if you have the time to post, you should have the time to send off some e-mail to Listserv, as per my previous post, which I will resend, just in case. I am now putting a one week limit on posting to the old list. One week from today, posting to the old list will result in being unsuubbed from that list (though not the new list). Feel free to post to both for the next couple of days. Yes, that means people will get it twice, but let's face it, a move like this is going to be a pain either way, so lets grit our teeth and get through it. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 16:10:02 -0400 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! > ::shrugs:: (What am I getting myself into this time...) Isn't Bruce an Old One anyway? hehe I'm pretty sure I trust him to be arbiter of all things canon, since he wrote all things canon. (or something). Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:21:37 -0600 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [Repost] [Note: I am not mispelling the word s u b s c r i b e below accidentally. It is like that so the list serving software doesn't kick this message back since it has list commands.] Mystarans, The new list on WotC's servers is now open for business. Some of you have already suubscribed, and do not need to do so again. Everyone else needs to suubscribe themselves to the new list. For various technical reasons I cannot do this for you as a bulk transfer. To suubscribe send e-mail to... listserv@oracle.wizards.com ...with the following command in the body of the e-mail... suubscribe MYSTARA-L [Name] ...where the [Name] is removed and replaced with your name. This includes removing the brackets []. Remove the extra "u" in the command as well. Name must be two different words, such as... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Ron Jeremy ...or... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Dark Knight When you suubscribe you will receive an e-mail message asking for confirmation of you suubscription. This is a security feature. Simply follow its instructions. You will then recieve a confirmation message that you are on. Once suubbed you can then post. The address to post to is... mystara-l@oracle.wizards.com There is no seperate Digest for this list. It is an option for the main list. Everyone that suubscribes is set to normal. Everyone that already suubscribed was reset to normal. To get mail in digest mode, send the following command to the same address... set MYSTARA-L digest That is pretty much all you need to do and know that is different for now. I will be updating the FAQ for the list and should hopefully be posting it tomorrow on my site. I will make an announcement at that point. You do not have to unsuubscribe from the old list. Two weeks from now I will be unsuubbing everyone from it. I will be posting this notice every so often before then to catch new suubscribers. Also, a few of you on this list are also on the Spelljammer list, which I am the admin for as well. Please note that the SJ list is not fully functional yet, and there will be a similar announcement when it is ready. As always, if you have problems, let me know. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:11:06 EDT From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters Thri-kreen, mind flayers, and kenkus...oh my! Recently, there's been quite a bit of discussion about these creatures on the MML regarding their acceptability in a Mystara campaign. Some folks have gone so far as to say that if a great explanation for their appearance on Mystara can't be given, then such creatures shouldn't be allowed. While this is fine for those keeping their campaigns in OD&D, such thinking in the 3E conversion process will scuttle it before it even gets off the ground. All three of the aforementioned monsters are in the AD&D 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, that system's CORE resource. Therefore, they should be acceptable in all AD&D campaign settings. When E3's Monster Manual comes out, EVERY monster in it should be considered "fair game" for 3E Mystara--unless a VERY compelling reason can be given for its exclusion from the setting. Having a list of banned monsters that don't fit in with Mystara's "flavor" will simply alienate the new players we are hoping to draw in. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #479 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Saturday, October 30 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 480 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... Re: [MYSTARA] - Player Registry Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past (long) Re: [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there? Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires [MYSTARA] - Tim Beach [MYSTARA] - D&D 3Ed and Mystaraspace Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:29:22 EDT From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Kopru In a message dated 1999-10-30 11:02:16 Eastern Daylight Time, CronoCloud@webtv.net writes: > I just had a thought. What if the Kopru are the ancestors of the > Illithids of the other worlds. The functional equivalent of an Illithid > Australopithecus or Homo Habilis. They do look a bit similar, > especially in the head. > > Or perhaps the Kopru are the mutated descendants of Illithid explorers. > When they entered Mystara their Psionic powers became magical mind > influencing powers. If we take the "Illithiad" as canonical, then Illithids owe much of their form to their unsavory practice of ceremorphosis (basically letting their mature tadpoles eat out the brains of humanoids and then merge with them to form a bizarre brain-eating chimera). I don't know about you, but I would really prefer not to let anything that nasty get anywhere near Mystara. At least brain collectors have the excuse of being extradimensional monsters that really don't understand what they are doing. Mind flayers, on the other hand, are evil geniuses who are biologically compelled to commit gross atrocities on a monthly basis. Kopru, on the other hand, are not depicted as having any desire to eat the brains of sentient creatures, and they seem to enslave aquatic humanoids out of laziness rather than active malice. A kopru can become a "nice guy" if he so chooses -- but a mind flayer would have no such choice. > Of course, if there is a canon information about Kopru let me know, > because I always found them interesting and I have practically no > information about them except X1. As somebody else mentioned, they are described as a player character race in PC 3, "The Sea People". *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:36:29 -0400 From: "Christian Constantin" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters >Recently, there's been quite a bit of discussion about these creatures on the >MML regarding their acceptability in a Mystara campaign. Some folks have >gone so far as to say that if a great explanation for their appearance on >Mystara can't be given, then such creatures shouldn't be allowed. While this >is fine for those keeping their campaigns in OD&D, such thinking in the 3E >conversion process will scuttle it before it even gets off the ground. I thought that a rule of thumb had been set for new monsters in Mystara: They could be present in the rest of Mystara but are inexistant (or at least very rare) in the KW (or maybe all of Brun). That leaves a lot of space to put these creatures, and, of course, its up to the DM's discretion to add/create new monsters for their campaign. I think that it was the best way to address this question and move forward toward the creation of a common language that will help modernize Mystara and bring new people to our small community ('cause it still is the main objective behind the conversion of "canon" Mystara into 3E, right?) Christian "Krieg!" Constantin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:14:42 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:05 EDT Kaviyd@aol.com writes: > Here are the ones that can't be accounted for by known or suspected > "standard" rules: > Standard rules of what, 3E? > Dervish (from Gaz 2) > Wise Woman (from Gaz 7 -- possibly a wizard class) > Master (Halfling, from Gaz 8) > Shaman (Goblinoid) > Shaman (Ethengar) > Shaman (Shadow Elf) > Shamani (Atruaghin) > Mendoo (Wallara) > War Priest (from Red Steel -- may be replaced by Crusader) > If I recall the 3E rules correctly, it seems that it will be relatively simple to convert most classes over to 3E rules. For example, I think that a halfling master would be a halfling fighter (or thief) that adds the cleric class later. I think that the dual classing works this way in 3E -- correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, though, then a Mystaran fighter can add the cleric class once he reaches 9th level and become equivalent to a Basic DnD Paladin or Avenger. The different Shaman classes would probably be specialty priests (I think they're still around), as would a Dervish. Like I said, I'm not totally positive about the 3E rules. I'll have to check the 3E website again for a little clarification. But, with the amount of flexibility we're going to be given in 3E dual- and triple-classing, this could be an easier job converting than one might think. That's my 1.5 cents (it may not be worth two ... ;-) ) John Hofmann ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:27:41 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Player Registry That might not be a bad idea ... I'll check it out. If it's on the WotC website, I'm sure that it's doable. I'm a web programmer (currently looking for a web design position -- if anyone knows of any), and I'd be more than happy to at least help out with the design. I'd do as much as needed. John Hofmann On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:18:43 EDT Ambreville@aol.com writes: > Anyone interested in having something like that on the official > Mystara site, > but only for Mystara gamers? How tough is that to establish? > > Bruce Heard ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:40:01 EDT From: Mystaros@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Those itching to do a "new" Blackmoor should check out the description for Khoronus... remember, the empire he built and protected as part of his path to Immortality is a direct descendant of Blackmoor... and I don't recall anyone developing that yet... Mystaros In a message dated 99-10-30 13:08:55 EDT, spymaster@planetfortress.com writes: << I was looking thru a lot of information dealing with Blackmoor in the Hollow World. In WoTI, it specifically states that Blackmoor blew up before the Immortals could save it. Now I'm not saying this to quash anyone's ideas, but that's what's written. Personally I'd like to see Blackmoor again (I'd make a fun counter to Thimhallan!) On another note, even if Blackmoor was saved, wouldn't the Immortals pull a "Bait and switch" like they did with the Blacklore Elves, and stick the city in some remote region? Ethan >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 18:41:11 EDT From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters In a message dated 10/30/99 5:40:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gf691805@er.uqam.ca writes: << I thought that a rule of thumb had been set for new monsters in Mystara: They could be present in the rest of Mystara but are inexistant (or at least very rare) in the KW (or maybe all of Brun). That leaves a lot of space to put these creatures, and, of course, its up to the DM's discretion to add/create new monsters for their campaign. I think that it was the best way to address this question and move forward toward the creation of a common language that will help modernize Mystara and bring new people to our small community ('cause it still is the main objective behind the conversion of "canon" Mystara into 3E, right?) >> Christian--thanks for jogging my memory. I recall that post now, but I thought it was just a suggestion, not an official decision. If it WAS a decision, then maybe we should re-think it. If we ban certain CORE monsters from Brun, we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Mind-flayers are popular, standard AD&D fare--so much so that they got their own accessory, "The Illithiad." Yet many folks here scream that one shouldn't have been in "Mark of Amber," and that a brain-eater should have been substituted. This kind of thinking--while not entirely illogical from a Mystara-phile's point of view--is suicidal if we hope to increase Mystara awareness using 3E as a vehicle. From what I've heard, 3E is about expanding the possibilities in the game, not limiting them. If we were to ban a monster like a mind-flayer from Brun, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to imagine the following (fictitious) conversation about a year from now: New Player: "Hey! Check out my new mind flayer miniature!" Karameikos DM: "Cool! Great job painting it!" New Player: "Any chance you could have our party run into one of these?" Karameikos DM: "Nope; they don't exist in Karameikos." New Player [Dejected]: "Why not?" Karameikos DM: "It was decided that they didn't fit in with the campaign's flavor or history. We decided that brain eaters fit in better." New Player [Perking up]: "Brain eaters??!! They sound cool! Do they make minis of them?" Karameikos DM: "Nope. Sorry." New Player [hopefully]: "Well, what page of the Monster Manual are they on? I'd like to at least see a picture of them." Karameikos DM: "Well, they're not in the Monster Manual either." [DM goes on to explain what out-of-print sourcebooks/modules the brain eater can be found in.] New Player [disappointed]: "Do they have mind flayers in the Forgotten Realms?" Karameikos DM: [wincing at the mention of FR]: "Yes, they do." New Player [beaming]: "Cool! See ya!" I admit my example's a bit melodramatic, but I feel its point is legitimate. I think that meshing Mystara with 3E shouldn't include a lot of limitations but should instead stress Mystara's strength's (its rich history, relationships between cultures, Immortals-vs.-gods issue, etc.). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:51:38 -0400 From: Kevin Powers Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - WE CAN COMPLETE YOUR PRODUCT LINE! Okay! Here are a few thoughts on what has been said with regards to writing the lost products and the advent of "New Cannon." Also are a few remarks for Blackmoor and other items which will be in need of design. Re: New Cannon I am of the school of thought that would relegate the cannon v. non-cannon decisions to Our Lord and Saviour Bruce. Perhaps I am biased, because I have tended to agree with almost everything which he has said, from psionics to spelljamming on down, but it is necessary that we have one figure serve as the final judge and jury. Bruce, as the original creator of a great bulk of the Mystara information which we possess and write derivative works from these days, is the only qualified person in existance to fill those hefty boots. Certainly, Ann Dupuis or Aaron Allston might also make good choices, but I would have to say that Bruce has been an integral figure in Mystara for far longer than Ann, and Aaron seems impossible to locate. Re: "But I Play THIS WAY..." Leroy, I am aware of the probing search beam which seems to be projected toward any who speak of this unholy topic, but I must make just a few brief remarks. I will silence myself with regards to this topic shortly thereafter :-). Plenty of folks have made a whipping boy of the word "cannon." Plenty of list members declare freely that "since the world is no longer being published by TSR, there is no cannon." YES! Play as you wish, but Bruce Heard must be entrusted with the authority to make final decisions on what we designate to be cannon for our setting. Derivative works will certainly be showcased along with the originals, but there must be a designated "official Mystara." I don't want to hear a collosal stream of replies consisting of whining about how "everyone plays as they want to," because we are all intelligent enough to figure that out for ourselves. Simply do what you want in your own campaign but please understand that if we are to move forward then we cannot mire Mystara in a haphazard mound of feculence in which the only consistency is a range of time somewhere between AC 990 and AC 1250. I love derivatives! I love creative take-offs on cannon Mystara. But I also accept the fact that the single way to, instead of perpetuating Mystara, actually drive the world forward, is to have one standard. Therefore, I propose that Bruce be the single judge, jury, and hangman of this single standard. (BTW, I actually prefer NOT to use 3E as the standard, but am happily accepting Bruce's arbitration that we do so. There are plenty of things that I could complain about, and I am requesting that we all remember that sometimes we do not get our way.) Thank you, and please DO NOT follow up on this "Re: 'But I Play THIS WAY...'" mini-thread; it is intended to be one remark without summoning forth the daemons and wrath of pointless bickering. Re: Blackmoor Dead Or Alive? The mini-catalogue which Bruce posted mentioned Blackmoor being transplanted to the Hollow World, and someone else (pardon me for forgetting your name, I am answering without the digest handy) suggested that the nation be placed in a remote location. I whole-heartedly agree! What if it were placed in Jomphur, an isle which is mighty far away from everything. I'm sure that either Geoff Gander (caretaker of the inhabitants of Suridal, I believe? The Selhommarians?) or myself (for indeed I seem to be headed for the HW-Blackmoor post) could come up with a reasonable excuse as to why the Empire of Selhommar (should that one be cannon, Bruce? I would tend to vote for it to become official, since it is so well-written) has never come into contact with the Blackmoorians. If this is an idea which works with people, then I can get working on it. But I need to hear back on this one. Re: This question: >>In fact, a fellow on the Internet has ALREADY written something of a >>Blackmoor GAZ; how difficult would bulking that one up with the extras >>intended for your fabled boxed set be? >Which extras would these have been? Hollow World Blackmoor, reviving the country's corpse so-to-speak, etc. Stuff that you mentioned in your 5-part post. Re: Other Nations Now, of course, the inevitable question comes up: Who will be writing the other stuff? I can take a stab at Blackmoor, but someone will have to do Wendar in it's entirety. Someone else will have to compile the writings of Bruce with regards to the Heldannic Knights. Etc. Here's the list, as I see it: 1. Blackmoor (myself?) 2. Wendar (?) 3. Heldannic Knights (compiling thereof?) 4. Sindh (bigger, longer, and uncut?) 5. Slagovich, etc. (?) 6. Post-Wrath Adventures (Synn scenario, Slagovich modules, etc.) Did I miss anything? Correct me if I'm wrong. Kevin Powers kjp@student.umass.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:39:01 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past (long) At Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:58:27 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com wrote: > >Here's a copy of an old file (circa '93 or '94) -- this document was supposed >to be part of a small "Guide to Mystara" to be used withing TSR (I'm looking >for the missing doc.) Some of this is no longer factual, but I thought it >would be interesting to post it here... Just a question: where can the modules and supplements like Rage of the Rakasta, In the Phantom's Wake et alii (all detailing that small mini-setting whose name I don't recall) be located in this Mystara Project? I mean, because they were part of Mystara, right? Maybe that First Quest Introduction to AD&D?.. >The History of Mystara in Novels > >D&D® Penhaligon Trilogy Hey, from the review here the book seems actually much better than what I expected by listening to the opinions of the people who read it.. many in fact dismissed it as "highly irrespectful of Karameikos as a setting." What's your opinion, Bruce? Btw, who did commission these novels in the first place? Was it something you HAD to do for marketing strategy or something you WANTED to do to make the campaign greater .. >About the Author: D. J. Heinrich is a pseudonym used in collaboration for the >D&D Penhaligon Trilogy. The author of the first two books, Dori Watry, most >recently has written a short story for the Tales of Ravenloft anthology. She I remember that one: Sight and Sound (a story about Bluebeard). And I tell you man, that is one of the scariest stories of the book, very well written! If the Penhaligon books are the same style, then I might be giving them a chance after all.. :) >The Future of Mystara in Novels > >In 1994 and 1995, novels about the world of Mystara will branch into two new >categories: epic tales for series fantasy saga fans, and shorter books for >younger readers. The first in the new line of epic novels is Dragonlord of >Mystara, which comes out in July of 1994. It is written for the AD&D® Game. Were these only planned or had the writers actually become working on them at this stage? And what happened to these books? >The Dragonlord Chronicles >by Thorarinn Gunnarsson Well, we know the trilogy found its way to the shelves, so I was not referring to this one.. :) Although (I'm speaking here without knowing the facts, since I'm basing myself on the opinions of those who read the books) there seem to be a constant in Mystaran books, and that's the ignorance of the writer regarding the world he/she was writing about... is it really this way? I mean, do these people knew anything about Mystara before starting their books? Because IMHO, what sets other novels and short stories (RL or FR line) apart from Mystara books is that the former ones have usually been written by experts and fans of those settings, while the fiction books dealing with Mystara seemed to have been written by outsiders... > The Dragonlord Chronicles comprise an epic fantasy on a scale to be >expected from TSR, Inc., the publishers of the highly popular Dragonlance® >Saga. Book Two, Dragonking of Mystara, is scheduled for late spring 1995, >with the finale, Great One of Mystara, set for winter of 1996. Great One of Mystara???? What kind of title is that?.. Fortunately they changed it into Dragonmage of Mystara... uhmm... did I say fortunately?.. :) >D&D® Young Reader's Books >Rogues to Riches, J. Robert King: When two thieves don the armor and clothes >of knights, hoping to steal a king's treasure, their troubles only begin. >Rogues is a romp that leads northward from Norwold onto the ice to rescue a >beautiful princess who may be more than she appears. The text is loaded with >slapstick humor, puns, and even some gaming in-jokes. While younger readers >will find it entertaining, older readers will see all sorts of silliness >going on beneath the surface. Hey, this seems really interesting! What's been done with it? I seem to recall it being in one of TSR yearly catalogs, but without the MYstara label on it.. am I remembering right? >Computer Games > >So far, only two SSI computer games connected with the World of Mystara have >been released. Both were created for the D&D Game, although anyone can play >then will equal enjoyment. WHAT???? I didn't know this! I know there are FR and SJR and RL and DS games out there, but didn't know there was a Mystara PC game! > The first game, Strongholds, reflects am unusual aspect of Mystara >products where heroes often endeavor to gain a nobility title and eventually >build a kingdom. Stronghold allows a player to chose among several types of >heroes, fighters, wizards, thieves, and set them up as vassals of a center >character. Each starts with a simple tower and strive to build up their >dominions, from small shops and taverns, to major castles and arenas. Each >building modifies the dominions' economic and military abilities. The player >central character attempts to become a "king" and defeat hordes of nasty >monsters who will eventually overun the player's kingdom if not dealt with in >time. The world where all this takes place is randomly generated and the >game's difficulty level can be set by the player. Very straight and simple. Much like Might & Magic, Magic Carpet, and even Civilization, if understood it right... Is this still available somewhere? And are there the actual names of Mystaran countries? > The second release, Fantasy Empires, actually uses the Known World. This >is more of an actual war and diplomacy game where up to five players build >large-scale armies and attempt to conquer the various nations of the Known >World. The players must successfully deal with the Dungeon Master (a critter >hunching over the top of the screen!) to build their empires. The DM in this >game acts both as a consultant for the players and a referee working to keep >the players on their toes. Gosh! I MUST HAVE THIS ONE!!!! Thanx for the tips Bruce, as usual! :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:53:59 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there? At Sat, 30 Oct 1999 06:12:03 +0100, "Paul George Dooley" wrote: >The fabled 1000 36th level mages of Alphatia. How many actually could get >what they 'wished' for? >Scarily enough if we grant them the same priveliges as PC's then quite a >few. >IIrc in oD&D you can raise an ability 1 point by sacrificing 2 points from >elsewhere. >This means that 75% of those with 17 Int could have 18 and well over half of >those with a 16 could also have an 18 right the way down to the mage with >base Int 12 and 17+ in Str and Wis. >Then you add on the magical effects of items such as the 'wheel of fortune' >and those items in AC4 and it could be as much as 1 in 10 if not more, >(Someone else can do the math), and what with clerics of Rad and Razud both >getting a Wis bonus its even easier for a cleric to get 18 Wis. > So there could be at least a couple of THOUSAND wishes EVERY day on >Mystara if all those who could possibly take it did so. Woohh, wait Paul, you don't seem to have clear one point: in order to cast a Wish you sure must have 18 points of Intelligence (18 WIS for clerics) AND being at least 33rd level (36th for clerics). And I don't think there are so many 33rd+ level mages in the world. BUt even if there were thousands, you must also remember that in order to cast a Wish, you have to actually HAVE THAT SPELL! And how u manage to have a Wish scroll spell? You cannot simply buy it (I DO NOT ALLOW BUYING WISH IN A MAGIC SHOPPE!!), nor you can expect to trade it for some other spell with another wizard. So, you must either go and find one in a most dangerous place where nobody dares (without even being sure there IS a Wish scroll) OR you have to manufacture and research the spell by yourself. AND this means TIME, GOLD and LUCK my friend. IMC I rule that to research a Wish you must gather ALL the materials required for ALL the known spells of ALL the nine levels of power AND a last element which should be almost IMPOSSIBLE to gather (like the sweat of a golem or the wail of a banshee..). With these restrictions, I do not think there are many wizards casting Wishes around, mind you... there might be many who qualifies, but very few of those do actually HAVE that spell. As for the clerics, the issue is easiest: sure, they only have to pray the Immortal to get the Wish, but remember that this is a powerful spell, so the Immortal may not grant it to the priest if he misbehaves or uses it improperly (like say to raise his scores, something useless to further the Immortal's goals and principles..) I hope I have made my point clear. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 02:41:17 +0200 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters At Sat, 30 Oct 1999 17:11:06 EDT, Demmero@aol.com wrote: >Recently, there's been quite a bit of discussion about these creatures on the >MML regarding their acceptability in a Mystara campaign. Some folks have >gone so far as to say that if a great explanation for their appearance on >Mystara can't be given, then such creatures shouldn't be allowed. While this >is fine for those keeping their campaigns in OD&D, such thinking in the 3E >conversion process will scuttle it before it even gets off the ground. > >When E3's Monster Manual comes out, EVERY monster in it should be considered >"fair game" for 3E Mystara--unless a VERY compelling reason can be given for >its exclusion from the setting. Having a list of banned monsters that don't >fit in with Mystara's "flavor" will simply alienate the new players we are >hoping to draw in. So you're basically saying that every campaign world should feature all the monsters supported in the 3ed Monstrous Compendium, uh? So you want drows, dracoliches, sahuagins and illithids suddenly popping out here and there on Mystara for no obvious reasons? This is again the same old story that Ezio brought about with the issue about the dwarf-mage. IMHO there are things and monsters WHICH DO NOT BELONG TO MYSTARA. This is not to be obnoxious, just to stay in line with the setting. Else if muls, doppleganger plants, tarrasques and the Immortals know what else appeared in the 3ed compendium, we'll have to incorporate them all in Mystara... I for one don't think WotC will tell everyone : "Hey, we've got rakastas and lupins in the 3Ed MC, now you've got to have rakastas in the woods of FR or in the deserts of Dark Sun" Sorry, just my opinion.. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 02:42:30 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Hi everyone! JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 02:46:42 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Tim Beach At Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:28:06 EDT, Ambreville@aol.com wrote >>>PS for Bruce: did u refer to Tim Beach when u said "the guy who took charge > of Mystara conversion to AD&D"?<< > >Do you have any idea who else that could possibly be? :o) Was he that much of an ogre with D&D? DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 02:50:03 +0200 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D 3Ed and Mystaraspace At Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:32:12 -0400, wrote: >> In a message dated 10/29/99 8:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, >> mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: >> >> << Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, >I >> reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed >> universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with >Spelljammer >> more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to >> understand..) >> >> >> I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies >> making factual changes to "Mystara space". I do not entertain the idea of >> paying lip service to yet another OOP campaign setting that happens be an >> OPTION for 3E. As you pointed out in your post above, if Spelljammer is >just >> an option in 3E, it means just that: it is not an obligation, therefore it >is >> insufficient as a reason to alter Mystara. Actually what I wanted to say is that PLanescape is OPTIONAL, while from what I've gathered (which might be inconclusive) Spelljammer is going to be the "official" layout of the D&D universe of 3Ed. This way I was suggesting how we can best cope with this fact (IF this is true, I don't know how much trusted can be my source). DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:55:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? It's got the KW nations and makes them somewhat realistic at least - no clerics in Glantri, for instance. I only played once or twice at a friend's house, so don't recall the quality. - - Mischa Shortstop Jake Stephens, on former teammate Satchel Paige: "The most overrated player ever G-d put breath into" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:30:48 -0400 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires It's OK. It's a wargame type of deal, but without a lot of strategy. The nations don't exist as political units themselves, but as a collection of "territories" that you get a bonus for aquiring all of them. If you're looking for a game with a Mystara flavor, then, well, let's get together and write one because this isn't it. John Hofmann On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Mischa E Gelman writes: > > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth > buying? > > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general > setting? > > It's got the KW nations and makes them somewhat realistic at least - > no > clerics in Glantri, for instance. I only played once or twice at a > friend's house, so don't recall the quality. > > - Mischa > > Shortstop Jake Stephens, on former teammate Satchel Paige: "The most > overrated player ever G-d put breath into" > > ************************************************************************* ** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #480 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, October 31 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 481 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread Wishes (wa Re: [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there?) [MYSTARA] - About 3rd Edition... Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters [MYSTARA] - More on Structure of the Project (was 3E Mystara--The Monsters) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara -- Requirement Specification [LONG] (Was: The Monsters) [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Canon Compliancy [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Getting Rid of List Acknowledgements Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara -- Requirement Specification [LONG] ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 00:15:20 -0400 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires I liked it! If you can get it cheap, then it is worth it. It does have the KW nations...and you can play various npcs from the gazetteers... Its not terribly heavy on detail or depth though. - ----- Original Message ----- From: DM To: Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 8:42 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires > Hi everyone! > > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? > > DM > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 01:38:56 -0500 From: onesimus@swbell.net Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires I have FE. It was a mediocre when it was new (the strategic game was pretty good but the tactical interface was laughable). If I recall correctly, I usually just wound up building large garrisons and using magical artillery hammered the large clusters of enemy troops. Once they were weakened enough, I moved across the borders with 10 to 1 or so odds. It was a formulaic approach, but won the game on a regular basis. God bless, Spencer DM wrote: > Hi everyone! > > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? > > DM > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:26:39 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - A whiff from the past <> Well, the first Penhaligon book really is very good, even if it's not incredibly loyal to Mystara canon. The second book is also fairly good, but the third goes very far from canon sources. It really shows the change in D.J. Heinrichs midstream :-) I'd recommend that you read the first one at least, at which point you'll probably continue and read the others anyway. >D&D® Young Reader's Books >Rogues to Riches, J. Robert King:... <> This was published under the "First Quest" label and begins, IIRC, in Landfall. It is the only Mystara novel that I own that I haven't finished--I simply couldn't bring myself to continue after the first couple pages, and then I got too busy.... At any rate, it is set on Mystara, and might be a very good book. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:55:53 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 26/10/99 18:55:03 GMT Daylight Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > Didn't the venerable Carl set his fascinating story for the first issue of > the Tome (featuring the lost Northman colony) on the Thanegioths? Yes, I did (and thank you for the compliment!), although I'm afraid there's little useful geographical information there...magic items? Spells? you got 'em; but geography is not my strong suit. Still if Neogana Isle might be useful to you, IronWolf, then feel free to check it out. "Venerable", Geoff? I may never see my 30th birthday again, but there's no need to depress me further! ;-)) The *young, sprightly* Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 05:56:11 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Tales from the Known World: The Isle of Dread In a message dated 29/10/99 11:37:01 GMT Daylight Time, shane_henrymml@yahoo.com writes: > "Tervine's Travels" by Carl Quaif, describes "Neogana > Isle" where a mysterious people dwell. [BTW, Carl, > which island in the Thanegioths would you prefer to > designate as Neogana?] Unfortunately, I don't have access to my Archepelago maps (or indeed any other maps, at present - it's all back up in the loft) - however, Neogana is/should be one of the smaller islands. Any suggestions? Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 03:34:48 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Wishes (wa Re: [MYSTARA] - Just how many 18 Int mages are there?) IMC, I have taken the rule that wishes cannot be found on scrolls to mean that they cannot be copied into a spellbook either. If you get a ring with two wish spells in it, then you have two wish spells--no more. I consider those rings to be or to contain intelligent beings who grant the wishes but also try to twist them as much as possible. Clerics can occasionally obtain a wish from their immortal patrons, but IMC this is only allowed for dramatic effect in true emergencies. If a high-ranking cleric prays for "Wish," I generally refuse to allow it to be cast, but only alow it to come into play at the immortal patron's (actually my) discretion and in exactly the way that I (as the immortal) decide. This is an awfully expensive escape clause, since it involves taking up at least one 7th level spell slot per day, but I like that system. Also, Clerics might sometimes be able to obtain wishes from rings, etc., but they act just as I mentioned before. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:52:28 +0100 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: [MYSTARA] - About 3rd Edition... About 3rd edition...I wonder if there's any "anticipation" available upon the Net of the 3rd Edition Ad&d. Skarm The Warlock *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:33:33 +0200 From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires DM wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? > I have it. It's okay and fun to play if you like warfare and conquest with some finance management mixed in. It's played on the KW map, but the KW nations have minimal effect (the only thing they do is if you control all the provinces of a single nation, you receive more income from them... there aren't any characters or such). - -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:46:50 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters This is just my take on the whole 3e monsters in Mystara debate. It seems there are really three points of contention: (1) Monsters in the 2e version (2) Monsters in people's campaigns (3) Donsters in the 3e conversion. (1) What's done is done. These thing have already been published, so I am not sure what debating them really serves. Some people are fine with illithids in MoA, so think it is stupid. In the ends, it won't change anything. (2) Who cares? If I want Giff, aarakocra, kenku or muls in my Mystara games I am going to have them. Not sure why anyone would care one way or the other. (3) This seems to be the most heated, the debate on what should be included in a 3e conversion. To be honest, I think I am missing the point. It seems to me the only thing that needs to be mentioned about them is a list that says "These creatures are not normally a part of the Mystara setting, as they were never a part of the OD&D game or mentioned in any official product." followed by a list of creatures. What more needs to be said? There are a few creatures in the AD&D products that would require some thought on inclusion, but then again I prefer that the conversion be based exclusively on OD&D products. I think we should base it on a "OD&D is Canon" concept. Perhaps I haven't a different view of what the project entails. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:52:06 +0100 From: "Pierre-Paul Durastanti" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters Leroy Van Camp III wrote: > This is just my take on the whole 3e monsters in Mystara > debate. It seems there are really three points of contention: > (3) This seems to be the most heated, the debate on what should > be included in a 3e conversion. To be honest, I think I am missing > the point. It seems to me the only thing that needs to be > mentioned about them is a list that says "These creatures are > not normally a part of the Mystara setting, as they were never > a part of the OD&D game or mentioned in any official product." > followed by a list of creatures. What more needs to be said? Just putting my 2 Eurocents here... :) Wouldn't it be nice for listmembers (or others) bent on introducing these monsters to the setting to design specific adventures (introductory material, only for monsters, LOL) in order to do so? These could be put up for grabs on whatever site hosts the conversion material, be written as 3E material so people can play them as soon as 3E is out, giving an edge for Mystara, and clearly separate them from OD&D material. Just a thought. Also, some monsters may have been present from the start, or for a long time anyway, and have chosen to reveal themselves only recently. Illithids shun sunlight, for example... but they could have found an access to a dense forest, rarely traveled, where sunlight would not be a bane for them, etc. Pierre-Paul *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:57:58 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - More on Structure of the Project (was 3E Mystara--The Monsters) Again, I want to say I have lost a lot of back e-mail due to a hard drive crash, and the digests since this issue came up are vast, so sorry for going over a possibly old topic. jdaly meandered fecklessly... > I'm tired of discussing this issue. Bruce said no psionics, so no psionics. Ok, with this, I want to ask: What is the general stucture of this project going to be? Is it going to be one guy who has final word, or a group of people, who vote as necessary on issues? Is it a full-scale rewrite of Mystara or a series of documents designed to facilitate playing in the Mystara setting with the 3e rules? Is it desgined to show how what has come before can be expressed in 3e, or on how to make other 3e things wwork with Mystara? All of the above? None? Depending on the direction of the project, I am very interested in it all, so I would love to hear what other people think, especially Bruce. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:29:51 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters Timothy R. Haney meandered fecklessly... > > It seems to me the only thing that needs to be > > mentioned about them is a list that says "These creatures are > > not normally a part of the Mystara setting, as they were never > > a part of the OD&D game or mentioned in any official product." > > followed by a list of creatures. > > I don't even think that's needed. Let's take drow, for example. If no > Mystara material includes drow ever then why bother with listing them as > a monster not in Mystara. The lack of them in any material shows they > aren't there. Why bother in creating such a list at all? If someone > comes up with a unique concept for drow in Mystara, why not? They might > have drow as living above ground as part of an African type area instead > of black-skinned humans (I know, that's not fresh but I hadn't given > them much thought). I guess I'm wondering what the purpose of such a > list is and to who is it for. Purely informational. if one of the key purposes of this document is to interest future Mystara fans who would approach the game through 3e, giving them as much a taste of the Mystara setting is a good thing. Personally, I am all for people doing whatever they wan't with there games. Heck, I deleted an entire country from the Known World (Atruaghin), completely altered another (Ierendi), and stuck it all in the SJ/PS cosmology. I am certainly not someone to have a problem with these kinds of things. But, there are AD&D creatures that were never a part of the Mystara setting, and I think it would be handy to let newcomers know this. You'll notice my statement was very neutral. It doesn't say that you can't use them, or that using them makes you a heathen. Just that they weren't originally there. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:48:13 -0800 From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara -- Requirement Specification [LONG] (Was: The Monsters) Hmm... First, I have to admit I haven't waded through all the many posts on "The Monsters" topic yet, so I don't know where it's actually gone, and as a result the comments and suggestions I am about to make may or may not be needed. However, they are, I think, something that we might want to consider in any case. Basically, I wanted to make an interesting observation about something that occurred to me as I was reading the Monster thread and thinking about some of the comments made in several other threads. First, in explanation, my Primary "real life" job is as a User Interface Designer and Usability Specialist for a software development company. What I have suddenly realized is that the process we are in the midst of coming to terms with -- figuring out how we are going to convert Mystara to a 3E "standard" -- is very similar in nature to the process in software of defining the Requirements Specifications for a new program. PLEASE bear with me as I describe some things on this topic in detail -- I will be bringing it all back to 3E Mystara eventually. :-) Essentially, without a well defined set of Requirements, it is almost impossible for developers to create software that is not only functional but actually USABLE by the target users. Even when Requirements are defined, if the company doesn't have a good mental grasp of what target user the software is ACTUALLY being developed for "Feature Creep" may become a problem. When the developer's target is simply the standard "elastic" user -- one who is sometimes the "Total Novice" who needs to be walked through the steps of a process but is at other times the "Advanced User" who not only knows what to do but wants to customize things in special ways -- the question of "would this new feature requirement be useful to the user?" can ALWAYS be answered "Yes". One of the primary "Analysis Tools" that I have used as a Usability Specialist is what are known in the industry as "Personas". This is a process where user data is collected and eventually synthesized down to ONE "fake person" who is actually an "Archetypal User" for each distinct Interface in the software. These Personas should also represent a large part of the "market share" that the product is intended for. The main idea is that each Interface is then designed to satisfy that Archetypal user 100%. Individuals who do not fall into the same categories as the "Archetypal Users", although they may only be 50% satisfied, should STILL be able to use the software to get their work done. These "Personas" are also developed in extreme detail, right down to giving them a name, finding a photograph or picture to represent them, their job description and even what kind of car they drive (which, in North America anyway, is a defining characteristic of individual personality). This makes them extremely inelastic, and thus it becomes easier to decide when to say NO about a particular feature -- If our Persona, "Bill" doesn't want or need to be able to do something then it doesn't need to be added to the software (at least not YET). This also makes them more like "real people" and helps people in program development, design and marketing treat them that way instead of the 'nameless elastic user' who might and could want to do almost anything. To be honest, sometimes more than ONE "persona" is used for a given interface, especially when several potential user archetypes have "conflicting" requirements. In this case, the "Primary Persona" is the one which represents the largest market segment and is the one who's requirements "win" when there is a conflict. However, the other ones are still used as a touchstone to ensure that haven't made it IMPOSSIBLE to do their work, and any feature that they can use that the Primary Person doesn't need but that also doesn't conflict with their goals, may also be added to the program -- but perhaps in Version 2.0. (Normally, when using this process, the goal is to have no more than three Personas for each interface) Building for just one well defined person initially seems totally illogical to most people, ESPECIALLY scientific type programmers. However, here's a good example of why this actually works: A car company wants to develop a new vehicle and they talk to the following three people: Ann, a Soccer Mom who needs to transport kids and make grocery runs; Mike, a Carpenter who needs to carry wood and tools between job sites; and Hellene, a Marketing Executive who wants a small compact car with a convertible roof. If the car company tried to make them ALL happy, they'd end up with a vehicle that combined some of the features they all want -- and NO one would want it or buy it! (Imagine a Convertible Mini Van with an attached Truck Bed ... YUCK!) However, if they instead decide that "Ann" is the Archetypal User that they are primarily interested in, they'll make a new Mini Van. And if they decide they want to keep "Mike's" market open (for those who like the look of a Mini Van but still need to move big things around) they can add removable rear seats. But Hellene -- well, she'll just have to go to another company (or this company can consider developing a second new model) so she can get the sports car she really wants/needs. OKAY, lets bring this back on topic to the 3E Mystara conversion. In our situation, we can look at it as if there are two "interfaces" -- one for the DM and one for the Player (Obviously there will be some cross-over, but that's a normal situation). Thus we end up with the "nameless elastic users" of "the DM" and "the Player". Up until now, there have been *several* messages where someone has said "What if 'the DM' wanted to..." or "but 'the Player' might need to...", and, as can be seen, it is always possible for someone to want to say "Well, We should include that then...". If we actually TRIED to include in all these bits and pieces that "some" DM or "some" Player *might* want to do, we'd could get mired down in the unnecessary complications, and assuming we ever actually got the conversion of the ground, it would end up as a big, ugly, UNUSABLE mess! So, I'd like to put forth the suggestion that we consider the Personas concept as a first step in getting a handle on the basic "Requirements Specifications" for 3E Mystara. To do this we need to get someone to develop some Personas for the 3E Mystara "Interface". This involves collecting 'user data' about REAL DM's and Players and then synthesizing it down to the one, two or three Archetypes for each. Then (if we have multiples, which I suspect will be the case) we can discuss which of the Archetypes cover the largest portion of our "target market" and make them the PRIMARY 'DM' and the PRIMARY 'Player'. Once we've done THAT, we now have a much better understanding of WHO we are developing the 3E Mystara "Interface" for, and it makes it easier to decide what to include and what to discard (or put off until later), and what to make "Core" vs. "Optional", etc. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and offer my time to do the basic legwork -- although if there is anyone willing to help me do this it would be greatly appreciated. Since I know and understand how to develop Personas, it is something I can do to help with the project as a whole. If people (especially Bruce) think this would be a worth while effort, I'll post something to the list in order to get some "Raw Data" that I can use to put something together as soon as possible. BTW: Having these Personas should also make it easier for everyone to understand WHY certain decisions are being made about the 3E Mystara Conversion. Basically, if the PRIMARY Archetypal DM or Player wouldn't need or want it, then we have a good reason not to do the extra work required to include it. But, if the PRIMARY Archetypal DM or Player NEED or WANTS something ... well, we'd better include it in the 3E Mystara Conversion or we're not doing our jobs! Well, there it is. Sorry about the length of this post, but after watching the various threads wander back in forth, already getting mired in "what ifs" and such, I just had to put this forth as a suggestion. I really think it will help -- I *know* it helps to direct Software Development. Still, I don't want to do the work if no one else thinks it will be useful, so let me know what you think. Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:27:34 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters Timothy R. Haney meandered fecklessly... > > But, there are AD&D creatures that were never a part of the > > Mystara setting, and I think it would be handy to let > > newcomers know this. You'll notice my statement was > > very neutral. It doesn't say that you can't use them, or that > > using them makes you a heathen. Just that they weren't > > originally there. > > I'm just questioning the creation of such a list as the list has become a > project focus. Seems to be creating conflict and adding little for it. Right, but with how I view how the project would work, such arguements are moot. It would boild down to this one rule: If the monster has appeared in a Mystara project, it ain't on the list. If it hasn't, it's on there. The only point that would need to be raised would be whether AD&D Mystara supplements would count. And that would be decided by whatever project structure was decided upon, once it got started. Not that how I view things is how it will be. Just my opinion on it all. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:37:40 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Canon Compliancy SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... > First of all, we need a definition of "canon". What products > do we take as the basis for what Mystara is? Also, if canon > contradicts itself, which is "more valid"? > > From all the discussion of the board, it seems that the > consensus for canon stands with: > > 1) all oD&D materials are canon. Agreed. > 3) What Bruce says is canon, is canon. Disagreed. > I would like to note that canon is _campaign independant_. Agreed. This seems to be one of those points that seem to be missed in these kinds of discussion. People seem to take this word too seriously, like saying that something is non-canonical is somehow an insult. Being canon or non-canon is not a value statement. It either is or it is not. [Lots of snips] All very well put, Ethan. Many points everyone should keep in mind, in my opinion. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 12:41:42 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Getting Rid of List Acknowledgements Here is the instructions for getting rid of the acknowledgements from Listserv, from the list guidelines that are delayed for a day or two due to some computer problems. When you send e-mail to the list, Listserv sends you an e-mail indicating that the post was received and sent to the list. This is handy, but not everyone will want this, especially if they post often. The commands to shut it off, and its reverse are: set mystara-l noack set mystara-l ack Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:54:39 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara -- Requirement Specification [LONG] ... In a message dated 31/10/99 18:53:00 GMT Standard Time, strawberry@jamm.com writes: > Still, I don't want to do the work if no one else thinks it > will be useful, so let me know what you think. Jenni, Sounds like a very good idea - get us all working together positively. Not sure how I can help, but count me in - anything you want, I'll do, if possible. Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #481 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 482 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] I Think We Have Had Enough Canonical Discussions for One Day [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) [MYSTARA] - Mystara 2000 AC, or "That aranea gaucho woman stole my car!" Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D 3Ed and Mystaraspace Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters Re: [MYSTARA] - About 3rd Edition... Re: [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map [MYSTARA] - 3E Project Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Project Re: [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map Re: [MYSTARA] - Volume and 3E Project Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:59:54 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] I Think We Have Had Enough Canonical Discussions for One Day Folks, I think it is time to put an end to the discussion on canonical creatures and stuff. As far as the 3e Project is concerned, until some sort of organization is decided upon, it is all really a moot point anyway. So, feel free to discuss ideas about the project as long as it doesn't involve what is or is not canon. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:33:13 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3rd Edition Hi guys! I've just come back from a gaming convention in my country and talked with the guys who're doing the translation and playtesting of 3rd Ed here in Italy. Besides getting very interesting news about and peeks at their 3rd Beta version, I had also the time to talk a bit with them about the pourpose of this 3rd Edition (which IMHO is going to be in many ways SIMILAR to OD&D and even to MY D&D :)). They said to me that basically WotC's main goal was to write an efficient gaming engine that could have been considered easy and solid enough to be used by both veterans and newbies. So, WotC decided to focus on the general rules and not much on the campaign settings because with the core rules, everyone would have been able to play whatever setting they wished or liked best. THAT IS TO SAY that we are not bound to use ALL MONSTERS that will appear in 3rd Ed Monstrous Manual ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE THERE. Every DM should use imagination and decide if said monster is applicable to his campaign or not, and this is the same for classes and races. If there are no thri-kreens nor have ever been on Mystara, then it's obvious there won't be thri-kreen PCs, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE THE RULES TO PLAY THRI-KREENS in the PC's Handbook! This is what they wanted to say when they said: PLaying an Evil gnoll ranger will be possible, that there are rules to make it so, but the DM must ultimately decide IF that is realistic for his campaign. That said, I have only two last things to say: IMHO we should make a list of monsters commonly found in Mystara (derived from RC and DMR2 or AC9 Creature Catalog) and a list of monsters whose frequency is rare or very rare in Mystara from AD&D Monstrous Compendiums. There remaining monsters (those not included in these lists) should be considered non-existant in Mystara, but this doesn't mean the DM cannot use them In His OWn Campaign. And finally, if there's something to be decided about this 3Rd ED conversion for Mystara, I'd like to have a democratic poll to take the final decisions. Bruce should coordinate the efforts, but I think we should all vote (MMLers and MMBers) the proposed solutions. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:20 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara--The Monsters In a message dated 1999-10-30 17:13:28 Eastern Daylight Time, Demmero@aol.com writes: > When E3's Monster Manual comes out, EVERY monster in it should be > considered "fair game" for 3E Mystara--unless a VERY compelling reason > can be given for its exclusion from the setting. Having a list of banned > monsters that don't fit in with Mystara's "flavor" will simply alienate the new > players we are hoping to draw in. I believe that you listed kenku, thri-kreen, and mind flayers as monsters to consider for use with Mystara. Here is my evaluation of them: Kenku: Canonical. Bruce Heard may not remember doing it, but he mentioned them as being present on the Arm of the Immortals in his Known World Grimoire article in Dragon #200. Converting this creature into an OD&D race/class would not be too difficult. Thri-kreen: Not canonical, and not a problem to include. Nothing about the setting precludes the introduction of yet another race of sentient monsters with relatively non-extraordinary abilities. Mind Flayer: A truly nasty race with no redeeming features, in addition to powers (psionics) that pose some problems for the setting. At the very least I would insist that they are not native to Mystara -- if they are included, it should be as extra-dimensional or extra-planar invaders. The use of this monster in "Mark of Amber" is acceptable because the scene in which the monster appears is a dream that is removed from Mystara proper. A further argument against the mind flayer can be found in such works as the "Illithiad" and the "Astromundi Cluster", both of which clearly place the mind flayers in the "Spelljammer" universe, from which they have easy access to the Planescape, Greyhawk, and Forgotten Realms settings. Access to the Mystara setting from such a starting point should be considerably more difficult. Finally, I would not consider it acceptable to count each and every creature in the Monstrous Manual as acceptable for inclusion in Mystara. Many of them still show their dependencies on their original setting or incorporate cosmological assumptions that are incompatible with Mystara. However, I would accept that the burden of proof is on anyone who would exclude a particular monster. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:21 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Treekeepers of Ilsundal & 3E Mystaran Priest classes [was Dwa... In a message dated 1999-10-30 18:15:45 Eastern Daylight Time, djemonk@juno.com writes: > The different Shaman > classes would probably be specialty priests (I think they're still > around), as would a Dervish. I suspect that all of the priest classes I listed would convert to some form of specialty priest in 3E -- but I don't know enough about the rules to guess just how it would be done. All I am sure about at present is that there will be "cleric" and "druid" classes with abilities analogous to the present AD&D classes by those names. I don't know whether the specialty priest rules as first presented will be sufficient to describe the various Mystaran priest classes or whether we will have to stretch them a bit to do so. Actually, the various elven "Keeper" classes will almost certainly be trickier to handle. Since their spells are for the most part tacked on to their mage spell lists, "Keepers" must be some type of wizard, albeit with access to at least some priestly spells. Another point that must be kept in mind for the Mystara setting is that one of the major nations of the Known World (Glantri) outlawed priests for a couple of centuries and got away with it. In order for their magocracy not to have been overthrown by the first band of Glantrian adventurers to reach high level, alternate sources of healing must exist. This point was glossed over in the OD&D version of the setting and no attempt was made to main- tain it in the AD&D version. Note that the method of healing need not be quite as effective as priestly healing but must be good enough for Glantrian adventurers without priests to be able to form viable parties. Note that by excluding psionicists from Mystara we lose the most viable candidate for a Glantrian healer -- monks and wizards must somehow fill the gap. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:23 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) In a message dated 1999-10-30 17:42:18 Eastern Standard Time, Mystaros@aol.com writes: > Those itching to do a "new" Blackmoor should check out the description for > Khoronus... remember, the empire he built and protected as part of his path > to Immortality is a direct descendant of Blackmoor... and I don't recall > anyone developing that yet... Yes, that is why I argued against having Blackmoor transported to the Hollow World (in addition to the direct statement in the Hollow World boxed set that the Immortals did not do so -- a reference that I must admit that I overlooked). Khoronus did indeed ensure the survival of the original Blackmoor civilization on an alternate plane. But this form of survival does not preclude Bruce Heard's idea for a "return of Blackmoor", although it does modify it slightly. The extra- planar Blackmoor colony has thrived and grown in the millennia after the Great Rain of Fire. Eventually they would begin exploring yet other planes and spread out yet further. At some point (apparently in the 11th century AC by Bruce Heard's plans) they would find the Prime Plane and Mystara and establish a small colony on that world. This development would probably catch the Immortals by surprise, as they would not have been able to keep control over them in the Hollow World as the original plot would permit. Khoronus would have enough "pull" among the Immortals to veto any attempt to stop them by force -- so it would be up to mortal adventurers to figure out just how to deal with these strange invaders. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:25 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara 2000 AC, or "That aranea gaucho woman stole my car!" While I must admit that this idea came to me in a dream/nightmare brought on by eating reheated pizza late at night, various items that I have seen on the Mystara lists have enabled me to work out just how such a strange world could come into existence. Needless to say, the second part of my subject line precludes my ideas from coming into being for several centuries after 1000 AC. Anyway, the critical event to starting my future history of Mystara is the destruction of Princess Dolores/Synn by powerful adventurers. With her destruction, the forces of Entropy are unable to find a way to reverse the drain of the Sphere of Entropy by the Nucleus of the Spheres, so it continues unchecked through the succeeding centuries. The "Glantri: Kingdom of Magic" correctly states that the Rad drain level in 1012 AC is at 478 but fails to note that the drain now proceeds in a negative rather than a positive direction. So the Day of Dread will continue to occur annually for at least a century, but the next event afterwards will not be another Week of No Magic but a temporary return to pre-Wrath condiions. When the Rad drain level drops below 100, Mystarans (who by this point will be used to the annual Day of No Magic) will be stunned the first time it fails to occur. The Day of No Magic will become an increasingly rare event as the negative drain continues. When the Rad drain level reaches -100, Mystara starts becoming even more magical in various subtle ways. True dweomers, quest spells, and psionic wild talents make their effects known. When the Rad drain level reaches -500, magical talent becomes universal among those races that have mages, and mages become possible among anti-magical races such as dwarves and halflings. The "Night of the Red Moon" in Glantri becomes a full week of chaos. A few individuals become full-fledged psionicists. When the Rad drain level reaches -1000, all sentient beings become capable of magic use, to at least the extent described for the plane of Old Alphatia in WotI. Glantri and other nations face a crisis as priestly magic is granted to all adventurers (at a level equal to the character's level in any other class!). When the Rad drain level reaches -2000, an arcane "golden age" begins. At this point all sentient creatures have psychic wild talents, 1st level mage ability, and priestly ability equal to character level, and anyone who is willing to expend the necessary effort can advance as a wizard or psionicist. Glantri uses its access to the Nucleus of the Spheres to become the dominant power in southeastern Brun. The cataclysm that occurs at a Rad drain level of -5000 catches the people of Mystara completely by surprise, since it is completely indistinguishable from the cataclysm that would have occurred at a Rad drain level of 5000, but without the warnings that would otherwise have clued people in as to what was happening. Not only is Glantri devastated, but a chain reaction of explosions destroys every other center of magical power in the outer world of Mystara -- Aengmor/Alfheim, the Shadow Elf City of the Stars, and Herath, among others. The Immortals intervene to rescue the destroyed civilizations and transport the few survivors to the Hollow World. The transportation of so many magical civilizations to the Hollow World eliminates its last remaining restrictions on magic -- in fact, at this point the Hollow World becomes the only place where normal wizardly and priestly magic work. Elves, gnomes, and dragons are among the magical races that are transported to the Hollow World in antici- pation of their immediate extinction in the outer world. Meanwhile, conditions in the outer world become truly hellish as the Red Curse spreads unchecked throughout Brun as the "Red Plague". With neither magic nor cinnabryl available to ameliorate the worst effects, the inhabitants of Brun become fully afflicted, and many die horribly. The region once known as the Savage Coast becomes the center of civilization. Eventually the plague spreads throughout the world, to Skothar, Davania, and nearly every island in between. However, the "Red Plague" is followed by the "Red Hope", which spreads the mitigating effects of cinnabryl (which is mined to exhaustion during the spread of the Red Plague) to local water supplies. Eventually the "afflicted" become "balanced" and are able to keep the worst effects of the Red Curse under control as long as they are able to drink from streams of red water. As the year 2000 AC approaches, the "Red Hope" has caught up with most of the world. All people have Legacies and/or psionic wild talents and some are full fledge psionicists, but there are no priests or wizards. Technology has advanced, slowly at first but with increasing speed in the last century. The more advanced devices are powered by a combination of mundane power sources and psionic energy. Those of you who have access to the "Amazing Engine" supplement "Magitech" will have little trouble picturing the shape of this "brave new world". As the third millennium approaches, the Alphatian Empire, which has comfoably guarded the Hollow World for nearly a thousand years, decides that the time has come to embark on a great magical project to move the floating continent of Alpahtia through one of the polar openings and out to the outer world. It is believed by many that doing so will restore the lost magic to the outer world. Will the Alphatians succeed in this seemingly mad plan? And will the magic come back if they do? These questions are among the many that people are speculating on as he 3d millennium dawns. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:26 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Fantasy Empires In a message dated 1999-10-30 19:46:24 Eastern Standard Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > JUst a quick question: if anybody has Fantasy Empires, is it worth buying? > Has it got the KW nations and such or is it just a general setting? Picture it as a sophisticated game of "RISK" that uses a map of the Known World rather than of the real world. So yes, it does use Known World nations, in that sense. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:27 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - D&D 3Ed and Mystaraspace In a message dated 1999-10-30 19:53:54 Eastern Standard Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > Actually what I wanted to say is that PLanescape is OPTIONAL, while from > what I've gathered (which might be inconclusive) Spelljammer is going to be > the "official" layout of the D&D universe of 3Ed. This way I was suggesting > how we can best cope with this fact (IF this is true, I don't know how much > trusted can be my source). Of course there is a very easy way to handle "Mystaraspace" if a Spelljammer- like arrangement of crystal spheres is made "official" for 3E. Set aside, at any desired location, a crystal sphere called "Mystaraspace". However, this sphere contains not a normal solar system but a one-way gate into an alternate dimen- sion. As a result, spelljammers can travel to the Mystaran solar system, but once they reach it they are stuck, as the "real" Mystaran solar system offers no way back to the "phlogiston". This arrangement would make Mystara slightly less isolated than Athas, since outsiders can get in fairly easily but have a real challenge in leaving (as they must leave by inter-planar or inter-dimensional travel and not by spelljamming). DMs could use this approach to introduce any sort of outsiders who do not otherwise fit into the setting -- but note that these outsiders will be rather des- perate as they will be unsure of how to get back home. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:32 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] 3E Mystara--The Monsters In a message dated 1999-10-31 12:39:34 Eastern Standard Time, malacoda@uswest.net writes: > (2) Who cares? If I want Giff, aarakocra, kenku or muls in > my Mystara games I am going to have them. Not sure why > anyone would care one way or the other. Aarakocra and kenku are canonical -- both are mentioned in that final "Known World Grimoire" article in Dragon #200. Muls are products of evolution in the harsh setting of Athas -- if you introduce them to Mys- tara, it might be a good idea to tone them down a bit. As for giff -- they would be yet another application of the "What is yet another race of sentient monsters gonna hurt?" principle. I would say, go ahead and put them down anywhere except in the Known World, where they would have been noticed by now if they existed in any large numbers. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 02:55:31 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - About 3rd Edition... In a message dated 1999-10-31 09:00:09 Eastern Standard Time, gio_sga@uol.it writes: > About 3rd edition...I wonder if there's any "anticipation" available upon > the Net of the 3rd Edition Ad&d. Oh yes! There are a lot of information, rumors, speculation, and debate about 3E. Opinions vary about 3E as being anything from the final doom of D&D to its "second coming". I can certainly understand the unfavorable opinions from those whose favorite settings work well with 2d edition rules, but I must admit that I am puzzled by the few Mystara fans who know a fair amount about 3E and yet think it is anything but a vast improvement over 2d edition from a strictly Mystaran point of view. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:10:23 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard_R=F8nne_Faanes?= Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, thibault sarlat wrote: > the map is in the south section. Cool! And the icons are correct (tops pointing north). How did you manage that? Håvard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people." -Mr Garrison, South Park. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:09:59 -0800 (PST) From: Jenn Subject: [MYSTARA] - 3E Project Hi everyone, This will probably not be a highly popular suggestion, but I'm going to make it for my own sanity's sake. While I can certainly see the merit of the ongoing 3E project, and appreciate all the effort that those involved are expending, it is just that: a project, not dissimilar to the Net Almanac or the Davania project. And so, I suggest that - at least in this stage of organization and debate - the 3E project move (like other list projects) to private mail. It's not that it isn't interesting, but that 1) not all of us are wrapped up in the details of conversion just yet, and 2) the volume is getting absolutely ridiculous. Thanks, Jenn ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 10:16:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Project On Mon, 1 Nov 1999, Jenn wrote: > This will probably not be a highly popular suggestion, > but I'm going to make it for my own sanity's sake. > > While I can certainly see the merit of the ongoing 3E > project, and appreciate all the effort that those > involved are expending, it is just that: a project, > not dissimilar to the Net Almanac or the Davania > project. And so, I suggest that - at least in this > stage of organization and debate - the 3E project move > (like other list projects) to private mail. It's not > that it isn't interesting, but that 1) not all of us > are wrapped up in the details of conversion just yet, > and 2) the volume is getting absolutely ridiculous. I suppose Jenn has a point.. Moving this "offline" onto a special "3E Project" list would make a lot of sense, and reduce the traffic for those who just aren't interested right now. As long as we post updates to the MML and the MMB when/if people become interested they can get involved. I currently moderate a mailing list for another purpose at an online site called Egroups.com (http://www.egroups.com). The lists are free (messages have advertising in them to compensate for this), they have a good security policy and every list has space for a 'home page' which includes a document vault for storing files and a database for compiling useful information, like Contact list information, or Persona details, or whatever ;-). It's even possible to "group" a bunch of lists together so that, if necessary, there could be related sub-group lists as well as a large list for the whole project. Lists can even have more than one "manager" so that administration may be spread out among several individuals. The UI is also fairly straight forward (though not, perhaps, ideal -- what UI ever is). It would be really easy to set up a 3E Mystara mailing list there ... and that would certainly clear up some of the unnecessary volume we're dealing with here. Just say the word and I can even get it set up... Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:19:43 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - isle of dawn map i am no wizard in that case because the original map was drawn this way so i just hadn't to rotate it 90° once done.... - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 11:09:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jenn Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Volume and 3E Project - --- "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" wrote: > I suppose Jenn has a point.. > > Moving this "offline" onto a special "3E Project" > list would make a lot of > sense, and reduce the traffic for those who just > aren't interested right > now. As long as we post updates to the MML and the > MMB when/if people > become interested they can get involved. [snip] > It would be really easy to set up a 3E Mystara > mailing list there ... and > that would certainly clear up some of the > unnecessary volume we're dealing > with here. Just say the word and I can even get it > set up... This sounds like a great alternative. Jenn ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:20:15 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) "I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies making factual changes to "Mystara space". " Could you elaborate further on this. What type of changes? - -- On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:16:48 Ambreville wrote: >In a message dated 10/29/99 8:45:53 PM Central Daylight Time, >mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: > ><< Pardon Bruce, but I beg to differ. From what I know (which is not much, I > reckon ;)), Crystal Spheres and phlogiston will be the standard of 3Ed > universe, so if we want Mystara in it, we'll have to deal with Spelljammer > more than with Planescape (which will be OPTIONAL, as we are given to > understand..) >> > >I do not endorse the support for Spelljammer in Mystara because it implies >making factual changes to "Mystara space". I do not entertain the idea of >paying lip service to yet another OOP campaign setting that happens be an >OPTION for 3E. As you pointed out in your post above, if Spelljammer is just >an option in 3E, it means just that: it is not an obligation, therefore it is >insufficient as a reason to alter Mystara. > >Bruce Heard >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:23:57 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Yes I do remember this. Perhaps these people were in tune with nature and the environment, so magicaly and spiritually they were compatable. However, elsewhere, the general notion of half-breeds does not seems to promulgated within the Mystaran campaign. IMC, I let the players decide on the direction. I just try to avoid having players power-play. The only reason I have one player playing half-elves is because he wants to be multi-class, but yet he hates elves. - -- On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 03:55:09 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-10-29 22:15:20 Eastern Daylight Time, >darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > >> Personally, I like the humanization in the aspect that there is more >> diversity, however this does lead toward munchkinism and overcomplex rules. > >> The OD&D system does not seem to support the concept of a half-elf class or >> any other half-? class. > >I beg to differ -- Bruce Heard introduced half-elves in his Princess Ark >series. >Of course, his half-elves were more human than elf in terms of abilities. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 11:25:45 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) How's this idea for an explanation: Perhaps the aliens from the Beagle (spaceship whose nuclear reactor is not the artifact under Glantri). These aliens had psionic potential. When they interbreeded with other races, this potential was passed down through generations. - -- On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:08 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:22:54 Eastern Daylight Time, >jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > >> Again, I'm not saying psionics, flayers, and rakshasas have NO place in >> Mystara. But all three could use some explanation, and would benefit from >it. > >Okay, how's this -- during the time when Etienne was absent from Mystara, >he visited such unsavory places as Oerth and Toril. When he was being >restored to Mystara in "Mark of Amber", he was still having nightmares >about those places. ;) >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #482 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, November 2 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 483 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The 3E Project on the MML [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Digest size [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Want your responses to this ... Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) Re: [MYSTARA] - Gravity planes Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads [MYSTARA] - PLEASE READ: User Profiles for 3E Mystara Personas [LONG] [MYSTARA] - D&D Movie Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Digest size ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:35:34 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The 3E Project on the MML Jenn meandered fecklessly... > Hi everyone, > > This will probably not be a highly popular suggestion, > but I'm going to make it for my own sanity's sake. Popular is not always right. > While I can certainly see the merit of the ongoing 3E > project, and appreciate all the effort that those > involved are expending, it is just that: a project, > not dissimilar to the Net Almanac or the Davania > project. And so, I suggest that - at least in this > stage of organization and debate - the 3E project move > (like other list projects) to private mail. It's not > that it isn't interesting, but that 1) not all of us > are wrapped up in the details of conversion just yet, > and 2) the volume is getting absolutely ridiculous. You beat me to the punch, but I was going to suggest that a Onelist mailing list be started up for the project. They're free, and it will eliminate the project-specific traffic on the list. So, we need a brave volunteer to start up such a list. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:37:22 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Digest size Greg Weatherup meandered fecklessly... > Hello, Hiya. > Is there any way to scale down the size of the new lists digests? That last > one was 183K! Yes. Less traffic. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 14:23:44 -0800 (PST) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Want your responses to this ... John: On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, John Hofmann wrote: > In an effort to lighten the load, both on people not interested in this > discussion and on people interested in it, I've made a mailing list with > a service called onelist.com that's just for this project. I signed up for this and have tried sending a message -- both from my email account and from their "post a message" web interface and each time I got a Send failure message telling me I wasn't subscrbed -- even though I'm listed in the Member directory (twice in fact, I signed up with both e-dresses I tend to post from...) If we can't get this to work, I'm willing to try doing the same thing at EGroups to see if that will work better (it's basicly the same idea as onelist) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:23:26 -0500 From: "SteelAngel" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) > Could you elaborate further on this. What type of changes? Everything. Mystara exists in the most "realistic" universe in any AD&D system. No "Phlogison", crystal spheres, or psychic space helmets. The only thing i don't like about Mystara is "gravity planes", so I delete them. Gravity works _exactly_ like in the real universe on my Mystara. (well, with a few magical helps :) Ethan *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:42:32 -0500 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) I'm not familiar with these gravity planes. Can someone enlighten me as to what they are, or, better yet, where I could research them on my own? Thanks, John Hofmann On Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:23:26 -0500 "SteelAngel" writes: > The only thing i don't like about Mystara is "gravity > planes", so I delete them. Gravity works _exactly_ like in > the real universe on my Mystara. (well, with a few magical > helps :) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 18:05:04 -0700 From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Gravity planes >I'm not familiar with these gravity planes. Can someone enlighten me as >to what they are, or, better yet, where I could research them on my own? They're described in the Champions of Mystara Designer's Manual, which explains things about world building, airship creation, and the rules for using skyships. Patrick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:56:25 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore >Here's a writeup for a possible origin for the Followers of the Claymore. >Note that if you don't like the Christian connections, they can easily be >removed from the origin, and it should still make for a very plausible >origin story. Good stuff, Andrew! Similar to my own musings, but phrased as a coherent whole. A couple of things, though: I always thought that the McGregors had "crashed the gate" to Mystara, so to speak. The understanding in my own campaign was that the d'Ambervilles were passing through this alternate world gate, and then a clan of wild Scotsmen (perhaps with other Scotsmen in pursuit) charged through, causing the premature collapse of the gate. This stranded lots of folk from Averoinge, separating loved ones and so forth, and led to the current friction between the two groups. (Any words on this, Bruce?) On the other side, a battle (followed by a hasty truce) between the two groups of Scotsmen resulted. This could explain intra-Klantyran politics generations later. As an aside, a major latter-day theme in my own campaign was of a construction of a similar world gate in Klantyre, with the return of many of the Followers of the Claymore to La Terre. (This had a lot to do with the political situation in Glantri by that time!) Actually, I always thought the Christian influence was implied, with statements like "by the Holy Blade" in Gaz3 and such. I wholeheartedly agree with you, Professor Theisen, that the rich tapestry of C.A.S. stories set in Averoinge is also consistent with this. Reading those short stories really helps flesh out the flavour of medieval Christianity that would add character to the Followers of the Claymore. As for their immortal patronage: >3) Some other Immortal (for reasons of his/her/its own) is granting the Christian clerics their spells. Certainly a possibility, perhaps the most pragmatic. (But then, who?) >4) Christian clerics gain their spells seemingly without any sort of Immortal patronage. Something that astounds many other clerics. I like this! But it does beg certain questions, perhaps fine in some campaigns, not in others. >(Here comes the controversial one) >5) The "God" of Christianity is simply another Immortal. Two possibilities here: >5a) Jesus Christ is the Immortal in question, having ascended to Immortality following his crucifixion. >5b) Christ was simply the mortal avatar of an Immortal that is known as God. His "real" name may be Yahweh, or any similar combination. My biggest objection to this is that the La Terrans switched worlds, and I think that's where their communion with their God ended. This would especially be true if the "God" of Christianity is simply another immortal. He would have to be something greater if communication with the Followers of the Claymore was still possible. This makes option (4) attractive, but whether (3) or (4) the PCs don't have to know which. In my campaign, the Followers worshipped the "Spirit of the Claymore" and I left it at that. Mind you, the idea of philosophers of Law (and Good) is a workable one as well, and your writeup could easily be used with that explanation instead. Jim Sahlas P.S. I like "Brotherhood of the Claymore" rather than "Brothers of the Claymore", if only out of grammatical tradition. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:55:08 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads In a message dated 1999-11-01 14:26:25 Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > IMC, I let the players decide on the direction. I just try to avoid having > players power-play. The only reason I have one player playing half-elves is > because he wants to be multi-class, but yet he hates elves. I would heartily endorse that idea. In both 1st and 2d edition AD&D there are certain character class combinations that are available only to half-elves. That should not be the case on Mystara -- we really should have things set up so that a min/maxer would prefer to play a purebred human or elf. The only reason for playing a "half-elf" would be for the interesting background it might provide, along with the role-playing challenge that would occur when most Mystarans tend to ask, "Are you human or elf? Which are you? You must choose!" -- a totally illogical reaction with a disturbing real world counter- part. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 09:53:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: [MYSTARA] - PLEASE READ: User Profiles for 3E Mystara Personas [LONG] Hello all: I've developed a list of user profile questions as the first step in collecting the user data needed to create Persona's for 3E Mystara. I will post them to both the MML and the MMB. They are attached to the end of this message, along with 5 examples based on some of the FRPG players I know. Hopefully, this will give you a better idea of how it is all intended to work. Note that much of the information isn't specifically geared to 3E Mystara and this is intentional. I'm interested in creating Archetypes which are as "realistic" as possible, and I need this sort of extra data to do that. Some of the specific responses you send may not end up be important to the Personas that we develop, but we need to get the data before we know for sure whether it is needed or not. :-) If you have any questions or concerns about the user profile form, feel free to ask. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield - -=> strawberryJAMM <=- - -=-=-=- 3E Mystara User Profile - ------------------ Basic Instructions - ------------------ Please fill in the form for as many individual FRPG players that you know personally and that you feel inclined to tell us about. You may even fill in the form once for yourself. (If you want to get your friends to fill it in themselves, that would be even better, but it is not required) Answer as many of the questions as you can for each person. Don't worry if you can't answer all the questions for a given person, or can only answer some of the questions in part -- some information is always better than none. - ------------------ Completed Profiles - ------------------ Send completed profiles to: mystara3e@jamm.com (It is nice having access to my own domain name...) ***************************************************** ***!! DO NOT send them to the MML or the MMB. !!*** ***************************************************** - ------------ User Profile - ------------ 1) Gender: M F 2) Age: <10, 10-15, 16-20, 21-25, 26-30, 31-35, 36-40, 40+ 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: 1 2 3 4 5 na b) The rules for "Original" D&D: 1 2 3 4 5 na c) The rules for 1E AD&D: 1 2 3 4 5 na d) The rules for 2E AD&D: 1 2 3 4 5 na 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. EXAMPLES: * To convert a Mystara NPC into 3E format * To learn about the World of Mystara in order to decide if she wishes to use it for her campaign * To read about the peculiarities of Mystara in order to determine what sort of PC Race/Class he might wish to develop for an upcoming campaign. 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. - -------- EXAMPLES - -------- - -=-=-=- EXAMPLE 1 1) Gender: M 2) Age: 26-30 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: 5 b) The rules for "Original" D&D: 5 c) The rules for 1E AD&D: 2 d) The rules for 2E AD&D: 4 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. YES Ravenloft 2 Forgotten Realms ? (don't know) 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games besides the various D&D Editions? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. YES Jorune 1 Paranoia 3 Call of Cthulu 3 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. * To learn 3E core rules in case one of the people he DM's under wishes to run a campaign using those rules. * To adapt a new 3E Module to fit in his OD&D campaign * To adapt magic items described in 3E into OD&D format 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. This person is not likely to actually use the adapted 3E Mystara directly, since he currently campaigns in Mystara with OD&D. However he would definitely be interested in having a well defined conversion to help him convert new 3E Modules, Spells, and Monsters into OD&D format. - -=-=-=-=- EXAMPLE 2 1) Gender: F 2) Age: 26-30 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? NO 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: 1 b) The rules for "Original" D&D: 2 c) The rules for 1E AD&D: na d) The rules for 2E AD&D: na 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. NO 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. NO 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. * To have fun in the Mystara campaign of her DM after it has been converted to 3E 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. This person *hates* reading reams of rules! She will probably only learn 3E things that her DM makes her learn. The easier and more clearly this information is presented, the better. - -=-=-=-=- EXAMPLE 3 1) Gender: F 2) Age: 31-35 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: 4 b) The rules for "Original" D&D: 4 c) The rules for 1E AD&D: 3 d) The rules for 2E AD&D: 2 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. YES Ravenloft 1 Grayhawk 1 Forgotten Realms 2 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. YES FUDGE (basic rules) 4 FUDGE (modified) 5 Jorune 1 Paranoia 1 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. * To convert a personal Mystara Campaign into 3E * To convert a personal Module written for Mystara into 3E * To write a new 3E Mystara Module * To develop new Spells that fit into 3E Mystara * To develop new Magic items that fit into 3E Mystara 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. This person is particularly interested in how the Magic found in 3E D&D can be fit into the world of Mystara while still keeping the different "Magic Rich" regions both balanced and unique. - -=-=-=-=- EXAMPLE 4 1) Gender: M 2) Age: 21-25 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: na b) The rules for "Original" D&D: na c) The rules for 1E AD&D: 3 d) The rules for 2E AD&D: 5 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. YES Forgotten Realms ? Krynn ? 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. I Don't know 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. * To learn about 3E D&D in order to determine if he wishes to begin running campaigns using those rules. * To find useful resources to use with the 3E D&D core rules 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. This person is an avid Role Player who has not yet been exposed to the world of Mystara. There is a high chance that he would be interested in converting to 3E when it is released. - -=-=-=-=- EXAMPLE 5 1) Gender: M 2) Age: 10-15 3) Does this person ever act as a DM/GM in Fantasy Role Playing Games? NO 4) Does this person ever act as a Player in Fantasy Role Playing Games? YES 5) Please specify an approximate rank of familiarity this person has with the following, using a scale from 1 to 5. 1 = "barely familiar" 5 = "intimately familiar" (Use 'na' if they are not familiar with it at all.) a) The world of Mystara: na b) The rules for "Original" D&D: na c) The rules for 1E AD&D: na d) The rules for 2E AD&D: 1 6) Is this person familiar with other TSR Fantasy Worlds? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those worlds. NO 7) Is this person familiar with the rules for other Fantasy Role Playing Games? If so, please list as many as you know of along with an approximate rank of familiarity for those FRPGs. NO 8) Please list some high level goals that this person might have with respect to 3E D&D and/or the 3E Mystara Conversion. * To learn the core rules for the current D&D game 9) Please note anything else about this person that you think is important about them, with respect to FRPGs, Mystara in general and 3E Mystara specifically. This person has only ever played one 2E D&D game after receiving the "Intro to AD&D" boxed set for his 10th birthday. He said he enjoyed it, and would like to play again, but hasn't done so. - -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:12:00 EST From: CRlPTONITE@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - D&D Movie This web site has recently put some new D&D movie pictures and info on their site. http://www.tnmc.org/batcave/dandd.html - --- -- --Criptonite *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:19:16 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Digest size In a message dated 01/11/99 21:27:26 GMT Standard Time, malacoda@uswest.net writes: > > Is there any way to scale down the size of the new lists digests? That > last > > one was 183K! > > Yes. Less traffic. Smooth, Leroy, real smooth...;-)) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #483 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Wednesday, November 3 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 484 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2] Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1016 - Eirmont 3 message [MYSTARA] - update ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:39:49 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file... [PART 2] > The Empire of Thyatis > > Thyatis is a seaside empire infamous for its violent history, the cunning > and treachery of its leaders throughout the millennia, the decadence of its > entertainments, and the might of its army. This description (except for the seaside part) fits Alphatia fine as well yet Alphatia is descriped in fairly moral-neutral terms. Why? > Master of Magic, Alphatia is a mighty power to the east of the Thyatian > Empire, ruling the Islands of Alphatia and Bellissaria, the northeastern > coast of Brun, and many other small nations. Subject colony states who desire freedom, yes. While I would have loved more Mystara products, it looks like the pro-Alphatia, anti-Thyatis turn that began with DOTE wasn't about to end anytime soon. At least we have one reason to be thankful TSR killed the line. - - Mischa Learn from children. Notice how much time they spend on whether the game is "fair." They're on to something. - Sam Smith *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:52:49 -0500 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) Excellent idea! My intention was to introduce psionics with mind flayers laying waste to the world. The heroes would discover those with "the legacy of Blackmoor" to save the day. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr. Darknerd To: Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Psionics) > > How's this idea for an explanation: > > Perhaps the aliens from the Beagle (spaceship whose nuclear reactor is not the artifact under Glantri). These aliens had psionic potential. When they interbreeded with other races, this potential was passed down through generations. > > -- > > On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:25:08 Kaviyd wrote: > >In a message dated 1999-10-29 21:22:54 Eastern Daylight Time, > >jdaly@friend.ly.net writes: > > > >> Again, I'm not saying psionics, flayers, and rakshasas have NO place in > >> Mystara. But all three could use some explanation, and would benefit from > >it. > > > >Okay, how's this -- during the time when Etienne was absent from Mystara, > >he visited such unsavory places as Oerth and Toril. When he was being > >restored to Mystara in "Mark of Amber", he was still having nightmares > >about those places. ;) > >*************************************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:19:51 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads I think the biggest thing in the way of choosing to play elf, 1/2 elf, or human, based on the role-playing merit only is the rules. Elves have beneifts that are irresistable, humans have none except dual class and no level limits, and 1/2 elfs have broader combinations but lesser abilities. For OD&D, elves have magic and combat skills, why play anything but elves in OD&D. IMC, I allow humans to multi-class. However there is a catch. Age is a serious consideration. Thus multi-class humans will be very venerable. I am hoping to get a glance at D&D3E rules about multi/dual classing. Apparently both humans and demi-humans share the same multi-classing rules. Anyone on this list know about D&D3E rules on this regard? - -- On Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:55:08 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-11-01 14:26:25 Eastern Standard Time, >darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > >> IMC, I let the players decide on the direction. I just try to avoid having >> players power-play. The only reason I have one player playing half-elves >is >> because he wants to be multi-class, but yet he hates elves. > >I would heartily endorse that idea. In both 1st and 2d edition AD&D there >are certain character class combinations that are available only to >half-elves. >That should not be the case on Mystara -- we really should have things set >up so that a min/maxer would prefer to play a purebred human or elf. The >only reason for playing a "half-elf" would be for the interesting background >it might provide, along with the role-playing challenge that would occur when >most Mystarans tend to ask, "Are you human or elf? Which are you? You >must choose!" -- a totally illogical reaction with a disturbing real world >counter- >part. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:20:56 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - 3E Mystara (Spelljammer) psychic space helmets? That sounds interesting. - -- On Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:23:26 SteelAngel wrote: >> Could you elaborate further on this. What type of >changes? > >Everything. > >Mystara exists in the most "realistic" universe in any AD&D >system. No "Phlogison", crystal spheres, or psychic space >helmets. > >The only thing i don't like about Mystara is "gravity >planes", so I delete them. Gravity works _exactly_ like in >the real universe on my Mystara. (well, with a few magical >helps :) > > >Ethan > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 20:47:44 -0500 From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads >From what I understand about the 3E rules, there is going to be a big emphasis on balancing the races. 3E will not have level limits for any race, and any race (including humans) can multiclass. Plus, they can all dual-class. For example a gnome can start off as a 1/1 Paladin Wizard and once he rises a few levels can add, say, an Assassin class (of course, alignment will probably be a problem here -- the point is that 3E is going to be REALLY flexible on classes). I think that demihumans are going to have a more difficult time at higher levels, in that they might require more XP per level once they hit a certain point, but I'm not sure about that. This would probably compensate for their racial abilities. I think that 3E is going to be pretty cool, given the amount of flexibility we'll have in character creation. John Hofmann On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:19:51 -0800 "Mr. Darknerd" writes: > I think the biggest thing in the way of choosing to play elf, 1/2 > elf, or human, based on the role-playing merit only is the rules. > > Anyone on this list know about D&D3E rules on this regard? > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 03:51:13 EST From: Alex295@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) In a message dated 10/30/99 12:08:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, spymaster@planetfortress.com writes: << > Would anyone be interested in a writeup for Blackmoor in the Hollow > World, located on the isle of Jomphur? I can do this one, if there is > interest. Hm.. I was looking thru a lot of information dealing with Blackmoor in the Hollow World. In WoTI, it specifically states that Blackmoor blew up before the Immortals could save it. Now I'm not saying this to quash anyone's ideas, but that's what's written. Personally I'd like to see Blackmoor again (I'd make a fun counter to Thimhallan!) On another note, even if Blackmoor was saved, wouldn't the Immortals pull a "Bait and switch" like they did with the Blacklore Elves, and stick the city in some remote region? >> Well...there is another option for a HW Blackmoor. Instead of picking a Tech Blackmoor and placing it as a counterpart to te Blacklore Eves, go back 500 more years to the Blackmoor of old (DA Series) before the exploitation of the Beagle. Transplantation to HW could be explained as 1) during its wars with mother Thonia or the Afrhidi, Blackmoor was on the verge a couple times. facing extinction the Immortals jumped the gun and moved some Blackmoor folks to HW. 2) the Beagle's discovery and the cache of tech could have been seen as forever altering Blackmoor and even Mystara itself. More fantasy oriented aspects could have been transplanted to HW to keep them preserved. For that matter Thonia should also be a candidate for transplantation. IIRC Thonia pretty much fell to corruption and decadency as per Milenian Empire. If I ever get around to finishing my Tech Blackmoor Gaz, Divergan Gaz, and the Divergans' immediate neighbors' Gazs I may try to do something on a section of HW devoted to DA series period nations. This project was discussed at some length in the respective almanac team. Imagine the HW-Blackmoor being transplanted. HW-Thonia is there too. However the Thonians were transplanted earlier and have no idea about the Black King's bid for his own kingdom. Conversely the HW Blackmoor are well aware of that tie to Thonia. Therefore you have a lean and mean Thonian Empire and a tough and progressive Blackmoor Kingdom both in HW....perhaps even as neighbors. Personally I'd stay away from a Tech Blackmoor in HW. Not only would they be technologically beyond the Blacklore, but they would no doubt not share the elves' lethargic nature. Everything I have ever seen about the Blackmoor had them as progressive thinking (even without the Beagle) and very ambitious. With Tech they may be just too powerful for HW's less sophisticated peoples. Even as preTech a HW Blackmoor may be a bit overpowering to the majority of the peoples of HW. As a medieval/rennaissance culture they'd have better tactics and weaponry. You'd have to have an equal rival nearby to keep them in check. I'd suggest Thonia and possibly a couple other DA series period peoples for this role. And as an aside you'd have a bit of a paradox as the SoP would stifle yet promote the Blackmoor progressive nature. You could actually create new cultures not specifically noted in DA series to add to the ranks of potential rivals. Ideally these peoples would have to be kept on some continent away from the lesser peoples. And some microsphere would have to be established to keep their actions from imposing on other peoples. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 02:54:18 PST From: "Joshuan Gallidox Publishing" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystaran Almanac AC 1016 - Eirmont 3 message "So, in the early afternoon, the Zuyevan forces entered the town triumphantly and the Cimarron governors left on a merchant ship tied up in the harbor." Read about this and more in the upcoming Mystaran Almnanac, AC 1016. This almanac contains the full year in review, atlas and maps of many countries - some of which you most certainly never heard of before!, and much more, in a 500+ pages volume published by Joshuan Gallidox Publishing in Mirros, Karameikos. Available on Numwont 1, AC 1017 for a mere price of one hundred royals from Joshuan Gallidox Publishing (check your local library for prices outside Mirros). _________________________________ Joshuan Gallidox Publishing publisher of the Mystaran Almanac ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 22:41:32 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: [MYSTARA] - update small update done on my gaz site. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #484 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, November 4 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 485 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - X8 for sell Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - X8 for sell Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:05:54 -0500 From: Kevin Powers Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Sorry, guys, but this one got moved to the other Mystara Mailing List location, at ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM. It is there that we have resolved a few of the disputes over technology. Briefly, the decision is looking like this: 1. Legit technology (not technomancy) 2. Location on Jomphur 3. Nation preserved based on very-late-stage Blackmoor 4. Distinct isolation 5. Distinct differences between Blackmoor Humans and Blacklore Elves 6. even more... follow Leroy's advice and sign up for the new list location! As for reasoning, please refer (the setting will proceed as described above, this is not going to become a protracted pro-tech/con-tech battle under any circumstances; sorry if you disagree with our decisions) to the "old Mystara pamphlet" posted a week or so ago by Bruce Heard. We are following his one/two-paragraph writeup on the planned "Blackmoor Boxed Set." That INCLUDES technology, Hollow World presence, etc. Thank you and please email me for more information and/or discussion. We would love to have any interested folks aboard for this long ride into the lost land of Blackmoor! If you send me email indicating that you are interested in Project Blackmoor (as it is now being referred to), I can update you. I am also in the process of getting Blackmoor it's own list. Heh-heh. UTHER, ONCE AND ALWAYS! Kevin Powers "The Fetch Of Blackmoor" kjp@student.umass.edu > > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 03:51:13 EST > From: Alex295@aol.com > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) > > In a message dated 10/30/99 12:08:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, > spymaster@planetfortress.com writes: > > << > Would anyone be interested in a writeup for Blackmoor in > the Hollow > > World, located on the isle of Jomphur? I can do this one, > if there is > > interest. > Hm.. > I was looking thru a lot of information dealing with > Blackmoor in the Hollow World. In WoTI, it specifically > states that Blackmoor blew up before the Immortals could > save it. Now I'm not saying this to quash anyone's ideas, > but that's what's written. Personally I'd like to see > Blackmoor again (I'd make a fun counter to Thimhallan!) > On another note, even if Blackmoor was saved, wouldn't the > Immortals pull a "Bait and switch" like they did with the > Blacklore Elves, and stick the city in some remote region? >> > > Well...there is another option for a HW Blackmoor. Instead of picking a Tech > Blackmoor and placing it as a counterpart to te Blacklore Eves, go back 500 > more years to the Blackmoor of old (DA Series) before the exploitation of the > Beagle. Transplantation to HW could be explained as 1) during its wars with > mother Thonia or the Afrhidi, Blackmoor was on the verge a couple times. > facing extinction the Immortals jumped the gun and moved some Blackmoor folks > to HW. 2) the Beagle's discovery and the cache of tech could have been seen > as forever altering Blackmoor and even Mystara itself. More fantasy oriented > aspects could have been transplanted to HW to keep them preserved. > > For that matter Thonia should also be a candidate for transplantation. IIRC > Thonia pretty much fell to corruption and decadency as per Milenian Empire. > If I ever get around to finishing my Tech Blackmoor Gaz, Divergan Gaz, and > the Divergans' immediate neighbors' Gazs I may try to do something on a > section of HW devoted to DA series period nations. This project was discussed > at some length in the respective almanac team. Imagine the HW-Blackmoor being > transplanted. HW-Thonia is there too. However the Thonians were transplanted > earlier and have no idea about the Black King's bid for his own kingdom. > Conversely the HW Blackmoor are well aware of that tie to Thonia. Therefore > you have a lean and mean Thonian Empire and a tough and progressive Blackmoor > Kingdom both in HW....perhaps even as neighbors. > > Personally I'd stay away from a Tech Blackmoor in HW. Not only would they be > technologically beyond the Blacklore, but they would no doubt not share the > elves' lethargic nature. Everything I have ever seen about the Blackmoor had > them as progressive thinking (even without the Beagle) and very ambitious. > With Tech they may be just too powerful for HW's less sophisticated peoples. > > Even as preTech a HW Blackmoor may be a bit overpowering to the majority of > the peoples of HW. As a medieval/rennaissance culture they'd have better > tactics and weaponry. You'd have to have an equal rival nearby to keep them > in check. I'd suggest Thonia and possibly a couple other DA series period > peoples for this role. And as an aside you'd have a bit of a paradox as the > SoP would stifle yet promote the Blackmoor progressive nature. You could > actually create new cultures not specifically noted in DA series to add to > the ranks of potential rivals. Ideally these peoples would have to be kept on > some continent away from the lesser peoples. And some microsphere would have > to be established to keep their actions from imposing on other peoples. > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 02:13:49 EST From: BoBoII@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari In a message dated 10/30/99 2:18:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, Ambreville@aol.com writes: << The Emirates of Ylaruam The Arabian Desert This is a desert land, all blazing sun, rolling dunes, and widely-separated oases, similar in appearance and the culture of its people to the medieval-era Arabian peninsula of our Earth. In recent centuries, the Thyatians to the south and Alphatians to the far east have come to Ylaruam to conquer; they moved in, the Thyatians from the south and the Alphatians from the north, and fought in the center, their wars going on for decades until the Ylari people threw them out. The Alasiyan culture which is dominant in Ylaruam is as harsh as the desert that spawned it. The Ylari greatly admire the desert warrior, the turbaned hero with his flashing scimitar and noble desert steed. Magic use is forbidden here; magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed when their presence becomes known. On the other hand, clerics are venerated in this land. >> This quote reveals something about the Ylari which wasn't as heavily dealt with in the Gaz., but which is harped on by both the Rules Compendium and the Almanacs. Why was this so left out of the Gaz. itself, with references to how the Emirates detect, try, and punish M-U's? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 19:16:19 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore At Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:56:25 -0500, "DJ Sahlas" wrote: > My biggest objection to this is that the La Terrans switched worlds, and >I think that's where their communion with their God ended. This would >especially be true if the "God" of Christianity is simply another immortal. I agree with this. I think that a deity could not give spells to his priests in DIMENSIONS where he is not worshipped, has no access to or has not an established shrine at least. > In my campaign, the Followers worshipped the "Spirit of the Claymore" >and I left it at that. uhmm.. interesting.. somehow I seem to envision the TRUE BLADE as the Relic of the Brotherhood, a sentient sword-artifact with an archangel's soul trapped inside that gives the followers and priests their spells.. how does this sound? :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 00:00:28 -0800 From: IronWolf Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari As I stated previously, someone apparently completely misinterpreted the Gazateer and wrote that section for the Cyclopedia, which was sadly replicated in the Almanacs. The fact that they have practiced armed forces that use magic which are detailed in the Gazateer tells me that the latter entries are incorrect. In most cases latter entries may be considered to override previous, but in this case I would have to rule in favor of the Gazateer. Of course, it's open to interpretation, but IMHO, I think we have enough countries that persecute based on race/class. The only magic user persecution in Ylaruam's history is of Alphatians, whom were former conquerers. I've no doubt that clerical magic is preferred in Ylaruam, and that magic users are rare, but I can think of numerous Arabian tales with dark sorcerers, flying carpets, and genies in bottles who don't look like pop stars... Why should we strike all that out? It's silly. I still think someone had GURPS Fantasy fresh in their head when that entry in the Cyclopedia was written, because it sounds almost identical to the nation of al-Haz there. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" BoBoII@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/30/99 2:18:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Ambreville@aol.com writes: > > << The Emirates of Ylaruam >  The Arabian Desert > >     This is a desert land, all blazing sun, rolling dunes, and >  widely-separated oases, similar in appearance and the culture of its people >  to the medieval-era Arabian peninsula of our Earth. In recent centuries, the >  Thyatians to the south and Alphatians to the far east have come to Ylaruam > to >  conquer; they moved in, the Thyatians from the south and the Alphatians from >  the north, and fought in the center, their wars going on for decades until >  the Ylari people threw them out. >     The Alasiyan culture which is dominant in Ylaruam is as harsh as the >  desert that spawned it. The Ylari greatly admire the desert warrior, the >  turbaned hero with his flashing scimitar and noble desert steed. Magic use > is >  forbidden here; magic-users and elves are hunted down, tried and executed >  when their presence becomes known. On the other hand, clerics are venerated >  in this land. >> > > This quote reveals something about the Ylari which wasn't as heavily dealt > with in the Gaz., but which is harped on by both the Rules Compendium and the > Almanacs.  Why was this so left out of the Gaz. itself, with references to > how the Emirates detect, try, and punish M-U's? > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:58:33 -0500 (EST) From: au998@freenet.carleton.ca (Geoff Gander) Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) Kevin wrote: > > If you send me email indicating that you are interested in Project >Blackmoor (as it is now being referred to), I can update you. Hi Kevin! I would be interested in seeing what you people are up to. If you do set up a list, let me know. :-) Geoff - -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 11:54:16 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads Yes the flexibility will be offered to create anything. Everyone including humans can have multiple class, and the powers of those classes are duplicated, not averaged. However a XP penalty is incurred. One thing extremely important to note is that each race has tendancies to move towards certain classes and multi-class combinations. This will be defined per race, but one should note that is is most certainly campaign specific. One ought to pay extreme attention to Mystara's campaign world. The restrictions and penalities for multi-class should be based upon the Mystaran races, cultures, and societies. For example, dwarven or elven theives will incurr massive penalities for being a rogue. This is because elves do not value monetary acquistion and dwarves are horrified at the thought of stealing anothers hard earned gold. regards, Joaquin - -- On Wed, 3 Nov 1999 20:47:44 John Hofmann wrote: >From what I understand about the 3E rules, there is going to be a big >emphasis on balancing the races. 3E will not have level limits for any >race, and any race (including humans) can multiclass. Plus, they can all >dual-class. For example a gnome can start off as a 1/1 Paladin Wizard >and once he rises a few levels can add, say, an Assassin class (of >course, alignment will probably be a problem here -- the point is that 3E >is going to be REALLY flexible on classes). > > >I think that demihumans are going to have a more difficult time at higher >levels, in that they might require more XP per level once they hit a >certain point, but I'm not sure about that. This would probably >compensate for their racial abilities. > > >I think that 3E is going to be pretty cool, given the amount of >flexibility we'll have in character creation. > > >John Hofmann > > >On Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:19:51 -0800 "Mr. Darknerd" >writes: >> I think the biggest thing in the way of choosing to play elf, 1/2 >> elf, or human, based on the role-playing merit only is the rules. >> > >> Anyone on this list know about D&D3E rules on this regard? >> >> > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:03:40 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - demi-Demihumans and Dryads wellllllll, i do have to agree much with my friend joaquin. the idea of there being an elven paladin or a dwarven theif strikes many of you as "odd" to say the least. While there would not be an elven paladin persay, there would be an elven fighter that held up truth, justice, and the elven way above all else, and had been bestowed with special religous beliefs and powers. And although the dwarven mind does not usually bend towards that of stealing, I have met a few that were outcast from the society, and had resorted to the life of a deep dwarf (although you haven't lived as long as I, I'm quite sure you've at least heard stories of these men?) which entails theft and murder as commonplace actions. Remember, for every rule you try to set, there are limitless exceptions, and no matter how hard you attempt to enforce it, someone, somewhere, will bend it to the breaking point. So just accept it all and move on with your lives. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:04:18 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Wizards are extremely powerful and with a simple set of spells a wizard could destroy whole kingdoms or cause major power shifts is the used correctly. Just imagine a general (wizard disguised with spells) tells an officer to attack from this position or recind another order. The army could be destroyed, or loose a chance to protect a city. Or perhaps, an impersonated king sets forth a law of religious intolerance within Karameikos. The resulting effect could be inquisitions against Traldarans, dissruption to trade, and possible revolt by the Traldarans. The usage of wizards within Mystara has not been used effectively. If they were used effectively, powerful wizards could topple the kingdoms of the known world rapidly. I cannot fathom what Alphatia could do to the world if truely determined. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:15:39 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Blackmoor (circa 1000AC) In a message dated 04/11/99 15:00:37 GMT Standard Time, au998@freenet.carleton.ca writes: > Kevin wrote: > > > > If you send me email indicating that you are interested in Project > >Blackmoor (as it is now being referred to), I can update you. > > Hi Kevin! > > I would be interested in seeing what you people are up to. If you do set > up a list, let me know. :-) Me too! Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:15:42 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles I have always wondered the questions: Where do wizards get their power? Apprenticeship: If a wizard takes on an apprentice, would that apprentice rise in power and perhaps betray his teacher. Wizards whom can become near immortal would never teach a possible competitor to their art. Under these circumstances, the wizard and apprentice must be of one mind and have a sense of uncanny trust. If this trust is misplaced, then only doom will be in the future for the teacher. Such was the case for Merlin and his love for his pupil. Colleges: If a single wizard will not teach his art to another, why would a group of wizards encourage others to learn the craft? These wizards could do untold destruction to the instructor's life and also pose a threat to the instructor's affiliates, friends, and nation. There needs to be some control as to the type of students that are brought into the university or college. Not everyone will be invited or accepted. In societies where there is general loyalty to a cause, such as Glantrian freedom versus the subjugation by Wizards of Air, many recruits can be accepted. Circles/Secret Orders: These groups are very selective. They bring in people only of a certain philosophy. They share and practice magic under this philosophy and will not teach another person whom does not share the same beliefs. This way, there is a less of a worry that the student can pose a threat and the group and student will have mutual goals. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:19:42 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles Hey, Joaquin, where does the Circle of the Raven get it's power (hint, hint, update the site!) Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 15:28:56 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > Wizards are extremely powerful and with a simple set of spells a wizard > could destroy whole kingdoms Which set of spells is this? > army could be destroyed, or loose a chance to protect a city. Or > perhaps, an impersonated king sets forth a law of religious intolerance > within Karameikos. The resulting effect could be inquisitions against > Traldarans, dissruption to trade, and possible revolt by the Traldarans. Okay, which spell lets you impersonate another individual so that the change is unrecognizable, especially to the confidantes of said individual? > The usage of wizards within Mystara has not been used effectively. Who would use these wizards? Why would they consent to being used in such a fashion? > of the known world rapidly. I cannot fathom what Alphatia could do to > the world if truely determined. Well, thanks to human nature, arrogance and drug abuse, that isn't a real concern. Plus the intolerance for religion is bound to draw powerful enemies, and any attempt to dominate the world would certainly be opposed by the immortal powers. I see clerics as a much greater threat, given powerful spells like holy word or earthquake, and for druids creeping doom. Plus they are more easily united into one coherent body, without squibbling threatening disintegration of a union. - - Mischa Suppose you go to Washington and try to get at your government. You will always find that while you are politely listened to, the men really consulted are the men who have the biggest stake - the big bankers, the big manufacturers, the big masters of commerce...the government of the United States at present is a foster child of special interests - Woodrow Wilson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:58:50 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - X8 for sell Hi everyone! Is anyone intersted in buying a MINT copy of X8, Drums on Fire Mountain, for only 8 bucks (Shipping & Handling INCLUDED ONLY WITHIN USA!)? If so, please let me know ASAP. The first who mails me PRIVATELY (mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it) gets the adventure, it's not an auction.. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:06:18 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards is there a problem here with imagination? I believe such spells that were aptly placed, such as "flaming sphere" in the King's Barnyard or even "Disguise" could in fact, ruin many a kingdom. Besides, speaking from experience, who needs to disguise themselves as the king, why not just use the "Mimicry" proficiency coupled with the "Ventriloquism" and "Phantasmal Force" spells, a perfect combination to create a king, hmmm? Think, for there to be order, there must be chaos, for something to be abolished in one area, it must thrive in another. This is why the Elven kind has such a strict code for behavior, to try to balance the use of power within the realms. Otherwise we'd end up destroying ourselves like the Humans. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:58:50 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - X8 for sell Hi everyone! Is anyone intersted in buying a MINT copy of X8, Drums on Fire Mountain, for only 8 bucks (Shipping & Handling INCLUDED ONLY WITHIN USA!)? If so, please let me know ASAP. The first who mails me PRIVATELY (mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it) gets the adventure, it's not an auction.. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:07:27 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards ps. haven't you ever heard of a war wizard, or a battle mage? Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:17:01 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > is there a problem here with imagination? I believe such spells that were > aptly placed, such as "flaming sphere" in the King's Barnyard or even Just as much havoc as a non-mage can produce. A thief with the right poisons can do as much damage as any mage spell. > experience, who needs to disguise themselves as the king, why not just use > the "Mimicry" proficiency coupled with the "Ventriloquism" and "Phantasmal > Force" spells, a perfect combination to create a king, hmmm? Because anyone who casts detect magic would discover the ruse? Because things like limited range and duration prevent such abuses? > area, it must thrive in another. This is why the Elven kind has such a > strict code for behavior, to try to balance the use of power within the > realms. Otherwise we'd end up destroying ourselves like the Humans. Of course, pragmatism wins over all, which is why dwarves don't need to be placed in the Hollow World every few weeks to keep their species going. - - Mischa Suppose you go to Washington and try to get at your government. You will always find that while you are politely listened to, the men really consulted are the men who have the biggest stake - the big bankers, the big manufacturers, the big masters of commerce...the government of the United States at present is a foster child of special interests - Woodrow Wilson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:24:29 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards so are you saying that you don't believe that a mage could destroy a kingdom, or areyou saying that anyone can destroy a kingdom? Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of theStarwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:26:33 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > so are you saying that you don't believe that a mage could destroy a kingdom, > or areyou saying that anyone can destroy a kingdom? Anyone can. Heck, a "normal man" can. All kinds of things can lead to the ruin of a kingdom. I just don't think mages have any greater power than anyone else on this front (at least in comparison to the other classes). - - Mischa Suppose you go to Washington and try to get at your government. You will always find that while you are politely listened to, the men really consulted are the men who have the biggest stake - the big bankers, the big manufacturers, the big masters of commerce...the government of the United States at present is a foster child of special interests - Woodrow Wilson *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 16:40:24 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards funny I got the reply before I got the statement that generated the reply LOL Ken Scoooman@aol.com wrote: > so are you saying that you don't believe that a mage could destroy a kingdom, > or areyou saying that anyone can destroy a kingdom? > > Meltheim the Shadowstalker > Infiltrator to the Immortals > Devotee of Fate > Eyes of theStarwatcher > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:40:27 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards well, I guess that since you seem to be one of those cannon players, my character would really disturb you. See, I am an Infiltrator of the Selenii Army, basically we are trained in the art of magic use, theivery, as well as many forms of combat. I by myself could very easily destroy a kingdom, as can many of my brethren, but as to a "normal man" as you so deftly put it, being able to, I have strong doubts to that. Many things can lead to the ruin of a kingdom, but actually destroying a kingdom is another matter entirely. A simpleton can poison food, but it takes an expert to not get caught doing so. The mere fact that such spells as "Stinking Cloud" are at the fingertips of a beginner mage can only cause the mind to wonder what the power would be of an experienced mage. And quite possibly a "Command" spell would just as easily cause a king to send his army to the north, instead of the south. Those under the king's power are mere peons, and do not doubt the king's word lest the be charged with treason. For this reason, magic has to be limited to those which have proved themselves capable of controlling it, the Elves. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of theStarwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #485 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Thursday, November 4 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 486 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - [OT] X8 for sale Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:42:29 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 11/4/99 3:34:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, megst19+@pitt.edu writes: << > Wizards are extremely powerful and with a simple set of spells a wizard > could destroy whole kingdoms Which set of spells is this? << I think a well placed charm person, along with the use of a few invisibility, ventriloquism and polymorph self spells would allow a mage to get his fingers into a high official, especially if said mage had an Amulet vs Detection and Location. Come to think of it, a well-placed Magic Jar would be even more devastating if the mage crushed the jar after taking control of the target's body. > army could be destroyed, or loose a chance to protect a city. Or > perhaps, an impersonated king sets forth a law of religious intolerance > within Karameikos. The resulting effect could be inquisitions against > Traldarans, dissruption to trade, and possible revolt by the Traldarans. Okay, which spell lets you impersonate another individual so that the change is unrecognizable, especially to the confidantes of said individual? << I have to agree with her here, unless the mentioned Magic Jar trick could be used. > of the known world rapidly. I cannot fathom what Alphatia could do to > the world if truely determined. Well, thanks to human nature, arrogance and drug abuse, that isn't a real concern. Plus the intolerance for religion is bound to draw powerful enemies, and any attempt to dominate the world would certainly be opposed by the immortal powers. I see clerics as a much greater threat, given powerful spells like holy word or earthquake, and for druids creeping doom. Plus they are more easily united into one coherent body, without squibbling threatening disintegration of a union. >> Remember that while the Empress wanted Alphatia to expand its borders while it was on the Outer Wolrd, 99.9% of the mages there just wanted to be left alone to do their studies. Besides, politics was part of their magely duties at home, so why bother to muck about in someone else's business when you have enough bother doing it where you already live? Jim Bobb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:47:11 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >Okay, which spell lets you impersonate another individual so that the >change is unrecognizable, especially to the confidantes of said >individual? Seeming, plus a bit of enchantment to make it more believable? >> The usage of wizards within Mystara has not been used effectively. > >Who would use these wizards? Why would they consent to being used in such >a fashion? Use? Significant portions of Mystara are run by wizards. Alphatia, Glantri and Herath spring to mind. Glantrians and Alphatians may be considered too fractious, but Herathians seem to be team players. They would not be "used", they would be doing it for themselves. Probably they are up to no good already, trying to cover up their little secret... Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 22:48:06 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - [OT] X8 for sale Hi all! This is just to inform u all that you don't need apply anymore for the adventure, it's been already sold .. :) Thanx DM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:52:25 -0500 From: "Ed Paynter" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > > so are you saying that you don't believe that a mage could destroy a kingdom, > > or areyou saying that anyone can destroy a kingdom? > > Anyone can. Heck, a "normal man" can. All kinds of things can lead to > the ruin of a kingdom. I just don't think mages have any greater power > than anyone else on this front (at least in comparison to the other > classes). Now this is a strange line. Can 1 mage physically destroy a kingdom through destructive spells? Obviously not. Can 1 mage (or 1 person) destroy a kingdom through trickery, magical or otherwise? Doubtful. Certainly there can be one person who is the root of the trouble, the mastermind, but kingdoms rise and fall historically/generally/realistically [pick one] due to politics and the art of creatively backstabbing your competition. Leave him (your ally/friend) in his hour of need, or leave a knife in his back... whichever you prefer. Of course there are many powerful spells that can be used to bring about the downfall of a nation. But honestly, in a strong nation, there should be strong mages in the court to prevent just this sort of thing. [The lower mage who whispers quietly into the ear of the magistrate when someone seeking judgement is lying; to the scrying wizard who seeks the fortunes to come; to the Minister of Magic that coordinates sanctioned mage school efforts and is in charge of magical defense.] For me, the greatest adventure is in the politics of the situation. Now I don't mean the votes cast one way or another, or who is in office, but the hidden agendas that EVERYONE has. Even in daily life, we all have our own agendas. I come to work to earn enough money to live and finish school. My boss comes because she is interested in the work and enjoys being paid for it... Agendas make roleplaying interesting. Why did the baron send you to the haunted caves? To retrieve the item he wanted. Why does he really need the item? To blackmail? To build his popularity? To get the characters out of the way for a few days? Its the twists that build the fun in the adventure. Hence, I don't think that 1 individual can really destroy a kingdom/nation, no matter how powerful in person. But they sure could think they have th power to... Megalomania :-) These make great recurring villains. Anyway, just my 200 cents. (sorry its so long... I guess I'm rambling) Myrkul the Theisenite Mystic Ed Paynter epaynter@iupui.edu http://php.iupui.edu/~epaynter *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:50:53 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >> is there a problem here with imagination? I believe such spells that were >> aptly placed, such as "flaming sphere" in the King's Barnyard or even > >Just as much havoc as a non-mage can produce. A thief with the right >poisons can do as much damage as any mage spell. Ho ho. Ever run a game for some high level mages before? The party thief is not a problem... The mages, however, are. >> experience, who needs to disguise themselves as the king, why not just use >> the "Mimicry" proficiency coupled with the "Ventriloquism" and "Phantasmal >> Force" spells, a perfect combination to create a king, hmmm? > >Because anyone who casts detect magic would discover the ruse? Because >things like limited range and duration prevent such abuses? There are ways around detect magic (at least, in AD&D, I can't see why not a D&D wiz who is into skulduggery could not invent a D&D equivalent of Misdirection or Non Detection). Detect magic has an even shorter duration still, in any case, and most of these illusion spells mentioned have a reasonably long duration if cast at high level (an hour per spell?). >Of course, pragmatism wins over all, which is why dwarves don't need to be >placed in the Hollow World every few weeks to keep their species going. LoL. What about the Kogolor dwarves? Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:54:48 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >area, it must thrive in another. This is why the Elven kind has such a >strict code for behavior, to try to balance the use of power within the >realms. Otherwise we'd end up destroying ourselves like the Humans. Nahh, the elves are wusses. Herath has survived curses put on them by Immortals and has been around a lot longer than any elven kingdom :) Cheerz Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:55:54 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 11/4/99 4:42:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, Scoooman@aol.com writes: << For this reason, magic has to be limited to those which have proved themselves capable of controlling it, the Elves. >> Hrmph! For all of the delusions that this world has to offer, you seem to cling to one that is normally associated to the humans: megalomania. Having great power and possessing the wisdom of how to use it have been the debate of scholars for milennia and I'll not be drawn into it, but for you to assume that one race in general is the most wise and trustworthy above all others is a deadly flaw that will be the downfall of those that see with such singleminded vision. Perchance you could remove the wizardry from all but the elves, would every elf be worthy or only some? What of the elves of the World Below? Are they worthy? They are elves, but sworn enemies of those of the World Above. Mayhap you need some council friend? Arminath Wynter, Old Man of the North *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:04:44 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Hooray! everyone listen to Rob, he is on my top 10 list now! When I finally do go crazy, my friend Rob, you shall be spared with the rest of the elves. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:05:53 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards forget what i said about your Rob, I will make sure you are the first to go !!!! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:10:29 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Well, the elves are naturally superior, I'm just sorry it has to be that way for the rest of you. i however, should not be a reflection on all elves, as my powers are far beyond those of the ordinary, and my mind is rotting faster than a cantelope after harvest in Traldar. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:23:43 EST From: FreddiePal@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of all the modules that are based in Mystara (or even those that COULD be based in Mystara), and exactly where they are set. For people such as myself who don't already possess every Mystara item, this would be extremely useful in figuring out which modules will help flesh out the areas in which we are campaigning. Anyone? If such a thing doesn't exist, maybe I should put together something myself. People can email me privately with the information on the modules they personally have, and I can build it from there. I know there's a Mystara-related product list out there somewhere. Perhaps that's a good place to start (and it anyone has THAT, please do email it to me) Ideally, a list such as this wouldnt have to stop at module settings, but it could contain a brief description of the module as well, and maybe even ratings that anyone on the list who likes can vote on. Sound interesting or useful to anyone? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:44:40 +0100 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizards About a wizards destroying a whole kingdom with "a simple set of spells"...this makes me VERY dubtful!... sure a wizard can make tabula rasa of a whole kingdom with a heavy-damage 10th level spell (such a spell would be the magical equivalent of a full-fledged nuclear armament)...but that's not a simple spell and anything less has a more limited power (try to destroy a kingdom with fireballs!! You'd die of old age before finishing!!!)... However an high-level wizard is surely a wandering army...A simple 9th level wizard can blast to ashes over 100 charging bandits (playtesting result)... On the other hand is true that "normal people" can make troubles...any person with enough will-power and fearlessness could kill even the better protected person in a non-magical world (just think about the many powerful persons who were killed by fanatics)...but that'd, very likely, be their end. Magic is just another kind of power...a wizard who lived enough to reach high level can send a fireball in the chamber of a king on the other corner of the world and then take his kingdom with an undead army... ...but a very rich thief could bribe the guards, have the king killed and then take power just by "buying" the kingdom or by raising a powerful mercenary army... ...the only difference is that the wizard could be money-less and do that...the thief has to be very rich! Then causing troubles, taking power and making tabula rasa of a kingdom are three wholly different things (a thief'd need to build a nuclear armament to destroy a whole kingdom...but surely he could slay the king, take power and/or cause troubles)! Skarm The Warlock *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:57:10 +0100 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Wizards ...the second problem could be this : Why bother? Yes...why should a wizard mind to kill a king to take power? Ruling a kingdom takes time and time could be better employed in searching new spells (that's why wizard build - not always, but most times - towers and they don't attract followers)...why taking a throne, even if this could bring you riches, if you can just search a chest who multiplies gems and sponsor your magical searches with that? There are a lot of ways a wizard could earn money without running a kingdom...they can make a brothel of zombies (where prostitutes are zombies...just make them from "stone to fleshed" statues and disguise them with spells...and you'll have a 24-hours-running brothel!!)...they can make a zoo out of a dungeon (take those 100 boring rats and turn each one in something more interesting with Polimorph Others!!)...they can have huge fields cultivated by zombies (just go to the local battlefield, raise a few hundreds of zombie, give them a spark of intelligence or teach them agriculture with a new spells and watch your money grow!)...they can make entertainment parks (look in the Ierendi Gazeteer for an example of this)...a kingdom is just a boring thing that a wizard with any wit will leave to the local fighter... Skarm The Warlock *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:10:23 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >forget what i said about your Rob, I will make sure you are the first to go >!!!! Hmm... You never heard that, I'm an elf, really... Rob aka Aranea in Elven Form Eyes of the Wizard King Keeper of the Eternal Secret Obtainer of Elven...delicacies... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:36:39 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? I think the old Blue Box Expert Set had a map of the known world that had the locations of the B and X modules, but I'm not sure any more. Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:50:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? > I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of all the modules that are based in > Mystara (or even those that COULD be based in Mystara) http://dnd.starflung.com/prodlist.html > and exactly where they are set. For people such as myself who don't > already possess every Mystara item, this would be extremely useful in > figuring out which modules will help flesh out the areas in which we are > campaigning. Anyone? I don't believe it's been done but it can't be that hard. If you list the areas the group plays, it's easier to list those that take place there. Anyways, here's a start: Basic Rule Set (Red Box, Bargle intro) Adventure - Karameikos B2 - Any wilderness area, though the Expert set map recommends a specific hill range B6 - Specularum B10 - Karameikos X1 - Isle of Dread; some distance S of Thyatis X3 - Vestland? X6 - Serpent Peninsula X8 - Isle south of Thyatis DA1-DA4 - Blackmoor CM1 - Norworld CM4 - Norworld CM8 - ?Glantri? M1 - any DoTE area is usable M2 - Norworld M3 - starts in Glantri IIRC IM2 - Darokin > Ideally, a list such as this wouldnt have to stop at module settings, but it > could contain a brief description of the module as well, and maybe even > ratings that anyone on the list who likes can vote on. Sound interesting or > useful to anyone? Ratings systems don't strike me as too good. I think Daniel Boese wrote up a list with descriptions but I can't find it ATM. - - Mischa Ultimately, fantasy depends not on cleverness, but on human truth - Lloyd Alexander *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 22:03:35 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards woohoo! then you shall be saved! I appreciate those that have acheived titles. with all the racism out there, it is really hard for us to rise above the hatred and earn some respect. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:18:19 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore >uhmm.. interesting.. somehow I seem to envision the TRUE BLADE as the Relic >of the Brotherhood, a sentient sword-artifact with an archangel's soul >trapped inside that gives the followers and priests their spells.. how does >this sound? :) As a matter of fact, I did flesh out a grotto in Klantyre with a pool containing the Holy Claymore in its depths, with the hilt coming up just below the surface. It was an artifact and it bestowed certain bonuses to initiates of the Followers of the Claymore. Man, I should dig that stuff up. I *love* the idea of an archangel's (or maybe just a seraphim's?) soul bound to the artifact! Perhaps the artifact itself could be viewed as a vessel for an emissary of the heavenly hosts from La Terre, to shepherd the flock , so to speak. Heck, even an avatar of some sort (at least that would explain the spells given to it's followers, as you said). I like the way this is developing! Jim Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:27:01 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - An even older file..or Ylari In a message dated 1999-11-04 03:02:43 Eastern Standard Time, ironwolf@ewa.net writes: > As I stated previously, someone apparently completely misinterpreted the > Gazateer and wrote that section for the Cyclopedia, which was sadly replicated > in the Almanacs. The fact that they have practiced armed forces that use magic > which are detailed in the Gazateer tells me that the latter entries are incorrect. > In most cases latter entries may be considered to override previous, but in this > case I would have to rule in favor of the Gazateer. Of course, it's open to > interpretation, but IMHO, I think we have enough countries that persecute > based on race/class. I would prefer that approach too, as it makes Glantri's attitude towards wizards (even with their "liberalization" of laws in dealing with them) seem rather back- wards to most of Mystara. Otherwise, you would have Ylaruam go from an open-minded nation that accepts all races and classes into a nation that is as barbaric as Glantri in its "bad old days" over the course of less than a decade, without even the mention of a triggering event as occurred in the case of Glantri. As I recall, the gazetteer mainly mentioned fire spells and necromantic spells as causing problems in Ylaruam -- so any mage who refrained from using such spells while in Ylaruam had no problems there. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:27:02 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 1999-11-04 16:42:57 Eastern Standard Time, Scoooman@aol.com writes: > And quite possibly a "Command" spell > would just as easily cause a king to send his army to the north, instead of > the south. Those under the king's power are mere peons, and do not doubt > the king's word lest the be charged with treason. But there are very few things that an army could do outside of battle that would devastate that army. For example, if a hostile wizard is success- ful in ordering an army to march the wrong way, the real leader of the army should be able to get them turned back in the right direction in a fairly short time, with only a slight loss of time to that army. On the other hand, charm and confusion spells cast during battle could be quite devastating.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:45:09 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Perhaps a summoning spell which brings forth rust monsters. There are numerous spells for illusions which can redirect orders and create miraculous affects for a superstitious medieval culture. There are spells that change the mentality of an individual such as suggestion, charm person, hypnotism. Charm Person can work wonders to seduce a princess and become her secret lover as the wizard whispers poisons into her ears. Maybe she'd even poison the king. Infiltration can be made easy for those of the magecraft, far easier than any normal spy, especially during medieval times. Assassination is all easy once infiltrated into a place or transportation spells such as Teleport. Reconnaissance is made easy with invisibility spells or astral projection. The plans of troop movement are made revealed. Sabotage would work well, especially for destructive spells that can be triggered by a certain person, or a spell that has a time delay. I am sure even the Nithians had spells to target an exact person. I'm sure other sabotage, espionage, and assassination type spells can be created. Here is a Heroes Feast for thought: Just because the players cannot think beyond combat spells or use imagination and creativity, does not mean that NPCs cannot. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:51:04 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:26:33 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> so are you saying that you don't believe that a mage could destroy a kingdom, >> or areyou saying that anyone can destroy a kingdom? > >Anyone can. Heck, a "normal man" can. All kinds of things can lead to >the ruin of a kingdom. I just don't think mages have any greater power >than anyone else on this front (at least in comparison to the other >classes). > >- Mischa I fail to see your logic. Are you saying that a mage has no paticular advantage? So let's a person teleports into a complex, invisibly infiltrates the palace from within, and then assassinates the king while using the illusions to appear as the prince who was next in line to be king which would place the previously charmed younger prince into power. This plot which is executed in one night could be done by a "normal man"? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:54:00 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > > Okay, which spell lets you impersonate another individual so that the > change is unrecognizable, especially to the confidantes of said > individual? << > >I have to agree with her here, unless the mentioned Magic Jar trick could be >used. > How about the spell cast by Merlin called Impersonation. This is a logical spell. The text for this is from Legends & Lore which is freely downloadable from Hasbro/TSR/WotC. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:48:15 -0500 From: "DJ Sahlas" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Mystara Modules? >I wonder if anyone has compiled a list of all the modules that are based in >Mystara (or even those that COULD be based in Mystara), and exactly where >they are set. For people such as myself who don't already possess every >Mystara item, this would be extremely useful in figuring out which modules >will help flesh out the areas in which we are campaigning. Anyone? Alright, in honor of the new incarnation of the list, I'll spew out what I know. B1, B2, B3 in Karameikos as detailed on the map in the 3rd edition Expert Set. B4 in Ylaruam as detailed likewise. B5 bugs me, as it seems like a 3rd edition "Thunder Rift" forerunner (ie. nothing to really tie it to Mystara) but the reshuffled compilation "B1-9" (which should be recognized as a different thing entirely, not merely an anthology) sticks it and everything else in Karameikos. Personally, the most logical location has always seemed to me just east of Malpheggi swamp in Darokin, with the River Shrill being a corruption of the name for the Streel River. The swamp in the adventure is said to extend for miles and miles west and north of the fort, which is at "the end of the trader's road". Tying it all together neatly, the module could be placed way in the past, and Guido's Fort could actually be the original settlement upon which the city of Athenos was built. (What were you thinking, Doug?). B6 in Specularum. B7 can take place in Karameikos, as implied in "B1-9" but the module only states "the elven wood". I think in its original incarnation as RPGA1 and 2 it was set in Alfheim (the eastern part of Canolbarth, explaining the Middle Eastern feel to some elements of the module, with its proximity to Ylaruam). I would place it there, as part of a Darokin campaign. B8 lists two possible locations (Karameikos, or western Darokin). Again, I prefer the non-Karameikan location, just to spread things around a bit. B9 is another one that bugs me. The first two mini-adventures could be placed in Karameikos, as later references (ie. the PWA) mention Clifton Caldwell there. The next two mini-adventures are set in a realm of three unnamed kingdoms. Where are there three adjacent kingdoms in Mystara? Sheesh. Why not stick them in early Darokin as well (there were a bunch of kingdoms there, once) and then send the group to B5 afterwards. As for the last mini-adventure, it's also generic in locale, although why not stick it in Karameikos (since it, too, was included in "B1-9"). B1-9 in Karameikos (with the B4 segment in Ylaruam). B10, B11, B12 all in Karameikos (and work very well with GAZ 1, which came out around the same time). And as for the "X" series: X1 in the Thanegioth archipelago, of course. X2 in Glantri. X3 in Vestland. X4 across the Sind. X5 in Hule. X6 (in 425 BC) on Serpent Peninsula. X7, X8 in Minrothad. X9 (actually the sequel to X6!) along the Savage Coast. X10 all over the place. X11 in Wendar and Denagoth. X12 in Karameikos. X13 in the Northern Reaches. The "CM", "M", and "IM" modules are a lot more explicit in their locale. Jim (how do I remember this stuff?) Sahlas *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #486 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 487 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] List Archives Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] List Archives Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 20:57:29 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >Use? Significant portions of Mystara are run by wizards. Alphatia, Glantri >and Herath spring to mind. >Glantrians and Alphatians may be considered too fractious, but Herathians >seem to be team players. They would not be "used", they would be doing it >for themselves. > >Probably they are up to no good already, trying to cover up their little >secret... I think there is confusion over the "used" terminology. I meant that a GM could utilize a single ambitious wizard (and we know they are out there) in such a plot. In Alphatia, Glantri, and Herathia there are patrons loyal to the race, nation, or ethnicity. These patrons would coordinate their magical powers for a common goal. If this goal is to conquer Mystara, then Mystara beware. The situation especially with Alphatia and the league of a 1000 wizards is incomprehensible. Such a force could destroy any nation or army. Just imagine 1000 Power Word Kills. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:00:13 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards As far as the Detect Magic idea goes, note that a clever wizard, and most wizards are, could simply use spells to make another person light of like a christmas tree. One such minor spell in AD&D is Nystul Magic Aura. I am sure that OD&D could have a Magic Aura spell as well. Further expansion of this spell could make other people themselves glow. - -- On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:50:53 Rob wrote: > > >>> is there a problem here with imagination? I believe such spells that >were >>> aptly placed, such as "flaming sphere" in the King's Barnyard or even >> >>Just as much havoc as a non-mage can produce. A thief with the right >>poisons can do as much damage as any mage spell. > > >Ho ho. Ever run a game for some high level mages before? The party thief >is not >a problem... The mages, however, are. > >>> experience, who needs to disguise themselves as the king, why not just >use >>> the "Mimicry" proficiency coupled with the "Ventriloquism" and >"Phantasmal >>> Force" spells, a perfect combination to create a king, hmmm? >> >>Because anyone who casts detect magic would discover the ruse? Because >>things like limited range and duration prevent such abuses? > >There are ways around detect magic (at least, in AD&D, I can't see why not a >D&D >wiz who is into skulduggery could not invent a D&D equivalent of >Misdirection or Non Detection). > >Detect magic has an even shorter duration still, in any case, and most of >these illusion spells mentioned >have a reasonably long duration if cast at high level (an hour per spell?). > >>Of course, pragmatism wins over all, which is why dwarves don't need to be >>placed in the Hollow World every few weeks to keep their species going. > >LoL. What about the Kogolor dwarves? > >Cheerz > >Rob > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:08:27 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards About money. A wizard can simply create money, at least for a temperary basis. The money could raise the army. The wizard cannot keep mounds of gold lying around like as if electronic banks exist. These needs to be spent on building things, owning things, or else the wizard will be robbed of his financies. On another note, slaying the king is not always the simple answer. The society would just respond by appointing a new king, other than the wizard. They wizard could not kill every heir as he needs subjects to rule. One could module X10. "Saga of the Shadowlord" was it? Here is one single wizard that has the potential to conquer Wendar and elsewhere. This is just "one" wizard. The world is politfric with wizards with no social boundary limiting the wizards. - -- On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:44:40 G. SGARBI wrote: >About a wizards destroying a whole kingdom with "a simple set of >spells"...this makes me VERY dubtful!... >sure a wizard can make tabula rasa of a whole kingdom with a heavy-damage >10th level spell (such a spell would be the magical equivalent of a >full-fledged nuclear armament)...but that's not a simple spell and anything >less has a more limited power (try to destroy a kingdom with fireballs!! >You'd die of old age before finishing!!!)... >However an high-level wizard is surely a wandering army...A simple 9th >level wizard can blast to ashes over 100 charging bandits (playtesting >result)... >On the other hand is true that "normal people" can make troubles...any >person with enough will-power and fearlessness could kill even the better >protected person in a non-magical world (just think about the many powerful >persons who were killed by fanatics)...but that'd, very likely, be their >end. >Magic is just another kind of power...a wizard who lived enough to reach >high level can send a fireball in the chamber of a king on the other corner >of the world and then take his kingdom with an undead army... >...but a very rich thief could bribe the guards, have the king killed and >then take power just by "buying" the kingdom or by raising a powerful >mercenary army... >...the only difference is that the wizard could be money-less and do >that...the thief has to be very rich! >Then causing troubles, taking power and making tabula rasa of a kingdom are >three wholly different things (a thief'd need to build a nuclear armament >to destroy a whole kingdom...but surely he could slay the king, take power >and/or cause troubles)! > >Skarm The Warlock > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:09:46 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards This is an example of an enterpeneural wizard. - -- On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:57:10 G. SGARBI wrote: >...the second problem could be this : > >Why bother? > >Yes...why should a wizard mind to kill a king to take power? >Ruling a kingdom takes time and time could be better employed in searching >new spells (that's why wizard build - not always, but most times - towers >and they don't attract followers)...why taking a throne, even if this could >bring you riches, if you can just search a chest who multiplies gems and >sponsor your magical searches with that? >There are a lot of ways a wizard could earn money without running a >kingdom...they can make a brothel of zombies (where prostitutes are >zombies...just make them from "stone to fleshed" statues and disguise them >with spells...and you'll have a 24-hours-running brothel!!)...they can make >a zoo out of a dungeon (take those 100 boring rats and turn each one in >something more interesting with Polimorph Others!!)...they can have huge >fields cultivated by zombies (just go to the local battlefield, raise a few >hundreds of zombie, give them a spark of intelligence or teach them >agriculture with a new spells and watch your money grow!)...they can make >entertainment parks (look in the Ierendi Gazeteer for an example of >this)...a kingdom is just a boring thing that a wizard with any wit will >leave to the local fighter... > >Skarm The Warlock > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:12:32 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his right mind change the orders of a general or king. Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The army cannot be "quickly" turned around. If the leader has good reason to question the orders (which is doubtful), he would have to get confirmation, which would not be a matter of moments. - -- On Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:27:02 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-11-04 16:42:57 Eastern Standard Time, >Scoooman@aol.com writes: > >> And quite possibly a "Command" spell >> would just as easily cause a king to send his army to the north, instead >of >> the south. Those under the king's power are mere peons, and do not doubt >> the king's word lest the be charged with treason. > >But there are very few things that an army could do outside of battle that >would devastate that army. For example, if a hostile wizard is success- >ful in ordering an army to march the wrong way, the real leader of the >army should be able to get them turned back in the right direction in a >fairly short time, with only a slight loss of time to that army. > >On the other hand, charm and confusion spells cast during battle could >be quite devastating.... > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:06:14 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] List Archives Kevin Powers > This archive is a piece of garbage! Does anyone know where one could > find an archive of the digests, as opposed to the mailing list itself? > Or has anyone been compiling an archive? That is pretty much it, unless someone wants to create a site devoted to keeping such archives. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 01:20:13 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 1999-11-05 00:14:54 Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his right mind > change the orders of a general or king. > > Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The army > cannot be "quickly" turned around. If the leader has good reason to question > the orders (which is doubtful), he would have to get confirmation, which > would not be a matter of moments. But slow communications would also work against the wizard. If the leader of the army and his troops knew that the king was a week's march away from them, they would be VERY suspicious if he suddenly showed up and started giving orders -- and it is also likely that the leaders would be given certain clues to look for so that they would be better able to catch such attempts to impersonate the king. There is no point in mentioning magical means of transportation or communication in this context -- that would negate the stated assumption of primitive communications, which is clearly not the universal situation on Mystara. I was actually thinking more of the case where the wizard impersonated a leader who was in the general area. That leader could very quickly get his troops turned back around if the wizard does not take the precaution of killing him first. If the wizard does kill the leader first, then his lieutenants will again be very suspicious if it is obvious that the dead leader could not have given the last orders that he was seen and heard giving. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:47:31 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: Re: [MYSTARA] List Archives Kevin Powers meandered fecklessly... > But the OLD MML had the full digests in text format! Does this mean > that the server switch has annihilated the convenient storage of > Mystara-Digests? That would be pretty G.D. rotten. The archived > digests were a wonderful way to read up on Mystara. To kill that means > of information-storage off would be tantamount to something really > awful. It is not something really under my control. The old list was run under Majordomo list server software, while the new one is run under Listserv. They do not operate quite the same. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:54:53 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 21:12:32 -0800 "Mr. Darknerd" writes: >I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his >right mind change the orders of a general or king. > >Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The >army cannot be "quickly" turned around. If the leader has good reason >to question the orders (which is doubtful), he would have to get >confirmation, which would not be a matter of moments. REmember, both sides are going to have wizards. Confirmation can be a matter of momments:: ESP, teleport, those scrolls that display whatever is written on the other. It works both ways. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:49:16 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his right > mind change the orders of a general or king. Because he's in his right mind? If told to perform an act of highly questionable strategy, a leader is bound to question precisely because he IS a leader and not a follower. Do you tell me that everyone you know immediately follows orders at work, however loony, without question? If so, I'd hate to be in your job. > Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The > army cannot be "quickly" turned around. Communication back in WHAT days? The days of instantaneous (sp?) magical communication? - - Mischa The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:17:44 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards What the hell is going on here? It is obvious that Mischa is somewhat confused as to what is going on, Joaquin is pretty close to it, and I know that I missed a lot of messages cause i had to go to sleep (stupid me!) but it's all getting out of hand here! There are 3 points that have been raised. 1. A Wizard of high level is potentially the most powerful class available, this is demonstrated not only by the availability of spells, the manipulative powers, but the myriad of restrictions applied to the wizard, such as no metal armor and a limited use of weapons. 2. In time, anyone (theoretically) could destroy a kingdom. Heck, as a follower of Fate, I have to recognize the fact that even a mouse could miraculously destroy a kingdom through some bizarre twist of circumstances. But the fact remains that because, as noted earlier, the Wizard is the most powerful (potentially) of all, that a wizard would automatically have better odds at destroying a kingdom, especially a clever wizard with great knowledge of the spells at his disposal against a weakened kingdom. 3. Communication in those days was NOT instantaneous. If you believe it was, then you are contradicting yourself more than you ever could, backpeddling so fast you're doing the moonwalk even. You say "REmember, both sides are going to have wizards. Confirmation can be a matter of momments:: ESP, teleport, those scrolls that display whatever is written on the other. It works both ways" Um, last time I checked, ESP is not a form of communiaction, it's merely "Extra Sensory Perception" not "Telepathy" which is a psionic ability (which we'll get into later). But see, you also said that wizards and magical use was not common, I mean, why would it be, all the wizards are trying to be greedy with magic, and in some places, magic use is even illegal. So if the use of magic was so rare, and outlawed in some places even, why would a king use his wizards to communicate with his army, at the risk of breaking his own laws? Remember, in most places, a king could still get "impeached" as it were if he were thought to be an unfit ruler. Well, I believe that I have said enough now, and i will probably get a lot of mail in my box because of this, but who cares, I mean, I've destroyed a kingdom before myself, and I know first hand how easy it is when the use of magic is available. See you in battle. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:31:38 EST From: CQuaif@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 05/11/99 05:14:54 GMT Standard Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his right mind > change the orders of a general or king. Fair enough that the original point is lost, but you bring up a new one. "Why would a leader in his right mind change the orders of a general or king"? If a given command made that leader believe (correctly or otherwise) that the General or King was himself "not in his right mind". There's precedent for that in various novels, if not IRL (but please don't ask me to quote just where. ;-). > Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The army > cannot be "quickly" turned around. If the leader has good reason to question > the orders (which is doubtful), he would have to get confirmation, which > would not be a matter of moments. Again, Mediaeval/"fantasy" armies don't necessarily follow the chain-of-command as well as modern armies do (or are supposed to). What if this hypothetical commander is a nobleman in his own right, leading his own men in the King's service? If he considers an order to be suspect, he might well turn his men/women/kobold irregulars round at a few moments' notice. Just playing Fiend's Advocate here. ;-) Carl Q. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:58:10 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > What the hell is going on here? It is obvious that Mischa is somewhat > confused as to what is going on Simply because I disagree with you? If there is a flaw in my logic, please point it out rather than resort to ad hominem attacks. > 1. A Wizard of high level is potentially the most powerful class available, > this is demonstrated not only by the availability of spells, the manipulative > powers, but the myriad of restrictions applied to the wizard, such as no > metal armor and a limited use of weapons. Every class has restrictions and limitations. A 16-th level mystic is in many ways superior. A 36th level cleric has access to far more destructive magicks than a 36th level magic-user, plus is much tougher in situations where magic usage is prevented. A 36th level druid has the most damaging spell in the game. A 36th level fighter who is a grand master with a good blade can do an easy 60 points of damage each round for a long duration, whereas mages have few spells that can reliably inflict that amount and a limited number of castings. I just don't see what's special about a lone mage. > 3. Communication in those days was NOT instantaneous. Again, I want to know WHAT days. This is a fantasy setting, darn it, and not a historical one. - - Mischa The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:14:35 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Oh but this is a historical setting. What year is your campaign running in? 1999 AD? I'm sure it is, right? Well, if is pre 1900AD, I'm guessing that there weren't many telephones around. Oh wait, your general has a cell phone, right? Or does he just have a pager? No, he has neither, for him to get a message, either a runner must go to him, or a messenger pigeon must get to where he's headed (but your pigeons can probably identify people, right)? Other than that, short of shooting a boulder with a not attached from a catapult in his direction, it would take at least a day for him to get a message, if not a week. And since when does a 36th level ANYTHING pop up running around the Known World? Anyone of that power should be more concerned with whether or not the Immortals will sponsor him for Immortality training, not on how to destroy a kingdom. And like you said, "LEVEL RESTRICTIONS" come into play. I'm starting to think that you wanted to be a mage, and your GM refused it, or that you were taken by one, or something. I mean, what do you have against them? Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher Ps. A 36th level Cleric would have to be questing for Immortality, a 36th level fighter has his own kingdom, and a 36th level druid wouldn't destroy a kingdom (it's against their nature). And both druids and clerics don't cast spells dear, only magus do that ;-P *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:25:37 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards > Oh but this is a historical setting. What year is your campaign running in? > 1999 AD? No, it's set in a world with immortal beings of tremondous power, of magic and mysticism. Therefore it allows for more methods of communication than existed in the medieval era. > message, if not a week. And since when does a 36th level ANYTHING pop up > running around the Known World? Well, with all the talk of thousands of wizards with power word kill, I had presumed you were using a high-powered setting. > concerned with whether or not the Immortals will sponsor him for Immortality > training, not on how to destroy a kingdom. And like you said, "LEVEL > RESTRICTIONS" come into play. Which are as true for MUs as any other class. > I'm starting to think that you wanted to be a > mage, and your GM refused it, or that you were taken by one, or something. Err, no. But thanks for yet another ad hominem attack. > I mean, what do you have against them? You mean: why do I not place them on a higher plane than other classes? Because they don't deserve such a placement. The game was designed for balance and that design was carried out well, as things are balanced. Why anyone would want to tinker with that is beyond me. > Ps. A 36th level Cleric would have to be questing for Immortality, I didn't see where this is written or presumed. All a cleric HAS to do is serve his or her deity. > a 36th level fighter has his own kingdom, and a If he prefers a dominion. The CM rules clearly allow for variations on that path. > 36th level druid wouldn't destroy a kingdom (it's against their nature). If destroying that kingdom helps right the balance of the world, it is in their nature. > And both druids and clerics don't cast spells dear, only magus do that ;-P Fine, then what do they cast? - - Mischa The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:53:22 -0500 From: "jdaly" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, November 05, 1999 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >...a 36th level druid wouldn't destroy a > kingdom (it's against their nature I wouldn't be too quick to assume that. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:06:38 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards At Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:44:40 +0100, "G. SGARBI" wrote: >About a wizards destroying a whole kingdom with "a simple set of >spells"...this makes me VERY dubtful!... >sure a wizard can make tabula rasa of a whole kingdom with a heavy-damage >10th level spell (such a spell would be the magical equivalent of a >full-fledged nuclear armament)...but that's not a simple spell and anything >less has a more limited power (try to destroy a kingdom with fireballs!! >You'd die of old age before finishing!!!)... You want to bet? I just need five spells to do that: Gate, Timestop, Conjunction, Delayed Blast Fireball, Dispel Magic. I admit I need three 9th level spells, but I assure you I could desroy (and I mean It LITERALLY) any medium sized kingdom (say Alpha) in less than a day. You want to guess how? ... if you're interested, let me know and I'll explain that to you (actually, one of my players did that on a smaller scale :)). PS: Leroy, how long should we continue to post BOTH to the old and the new server? DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 20:11:57 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore At Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:18:19 -0500, "DJ Sahlas" wrote: > As a matter of fact, I did flesh out a grotto in Klantyre with a pool >containing the Holy Claymore in its depths, with the hilt coming up just >below the surface. It was an artifact and it bestowed certain bonuses to >initiates of the Followers of the Claymore. Man, I should dig that stuff >up. Sounds like a subterranean Excalibur.. do we get a shadowelf Lady of the Lake as bonus? :) > I *love* the idea of an archangel's (or maybe just a seraphim's?) soul >bound to the artifact! Oh, one thing that has always bugged me: have angels anywhere been described in a TSR supplement, put to stats and given a background? I have Deities & Demigods 1st ed but they are not there (there are many deities and things, even Cthulhu, but no angels) >Perhaps the artifact itself could be viewed as a >vessel for an emissary of the heavenly hosts from La Terre, to shepherd the >flock , so to speak. Heck, even an avatar of some sort (at least that would >explain the spells given to it's followers, as you said). Yes, that would definitely seem logical to me, and would answer many questions.. It could also be the key to REOPEN the gate to Laterre... (maybe it was thru the use of that artifact that it was closed as well..) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #487 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Friday, November 5 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 488 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles R: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - I missed something Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - The continued story (was: A new project) Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [Repost] [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Posting to the Old List Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:24:00 +0100 From: "Pierre-Paul Durastanti" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Followers of the Claymore DM asked: > Oh, one thing that has always bugged me: have angels anywhere been > described in a TSR supplement, put to stats and given a background? I have > Deities & Demigods 1st ed but they are not there (there are many deities > and things, even Cthulhu, but no angels) The best resource out there is fairly new -- about three or four months old, I think. It's called "Warriors of Heaven", and it's a Core AD&D product (not published under the Planescape [PS] imprint). It does not contradict previously published information from the PS line, just rephrases it while dispensing with the PS cant that some people find annoying. Angels are now called devas, solars, planetars, etc. Go for this book... and use caution, as it allows players to play angelic PCs with, ahem, *great* powers. :) As an aside, "Warriors of Heaven" also includes a fairly comprehensive list of the powers (gods) to be found on the Upper Planes, including Mystaran immortals (I'm not sure this is kosher with how the majority of the listmembers here view Immortals, but it's a handy reference all the same, in my opinion). Warriors of Heaven, by Christopher Perkins TSR11361 ISBN#: 0-7869-1361-4 96 pages, US $18.95 CAN $27.95 Hope this helps, Pierre-Paul *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 18:57:38 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards "Mr. Darknerd" wrote: > > One could module X10. "Saga of the Shadowlord" was it? Here is one single wizard that has the potential to conquer Wendar and elsewhere. This is just "one" wizard. > A wizard with the Elvenstar, yes. It amplified spell effects (expecially range and area) so that fireball or protection from evil 5' could affect entire cities. Without such a powerful help, he couldn't have done it, probably. - -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 19:05:08 +0000 From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizard Colleges, Apprentices, Circles "Mr. Darknerd" wrote: > > I have always wondered the questions: Where do wizards get their power? > > Apprenticeship: > > If a wizard takes on an apprentice, would that apprentice rise in power and perhaps betray his teacher. Wizards whom can become near immortal would never teach a possible competitor to their art. Under these circumstances, the wizard and apprentice must be of one mind and have a sense of uncanny trust. If this trust is misplaced, then only doom will be in the future for the teacher. Such was the case for Merlin and his love for his pupil. > Not all wizards are so powerful. There are many lesser mages who cannot extend their lifespan through their magic. They are the better candidates for teaching magic. Also, apprentices can be a source of power: a single wizard can memorize a limited amount of spells. A wizard with some apprentices as an edge over is less sociable brethren. > Colleges: > > If a single wizard will not teach his art to another, why would a group of wizards encourage others to learn the craft? These wizards could do untold destruction to the instructor's life and also pose a threat to the instructor's affiliates, friends, and nation. > As before, the number of apprentices determines the ability of a Circle or College to affect the society: apprentices can go on quests that their masters will never have the time to complete, and so on. - -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:56:17 +0100 From: "G. SGARBI" Subject: R: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Ok...tell me how you'll destroy a kingdom with these spells. Skarm The Warlock - -----Messaggio originale----- Da: DM A: mystara-l@lists.imagiconline.com Data: venerdì 5 novembre 1999 21.00 Oggetto: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >At Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:44:40 +0100, "G. SGARBI" wrote: > >>About a wizards destroying a whole kingdom with "a simple set of >>spells"...this makes me VERY dubtful!... >>sure a wizard can make tabula rasa of a whole kingdom with a heavy-damage >>10th level spell (such a spell would be the magical equivalent of a >>full-fledged nuclear armament)...but that's not a simple spell and anything >>less has a more limited power (try to destroy a kingdom with fireballs!! >>You'd die of old age before finishing!!!)... > >You want to bet? I just need five spells to do that: Gate, Timestop, >Conjunction, Delayed Blast Fireball, Dispel Magic. I admit I need three 9th >level spells, but I assure you I could desroy (and I mean It LITERALLY) any >medium sized kingdom (say Alpha) in less than a day. > >You want to guess how? ... if you're interested, let me know and I'll >explain that to you (actually, one of my players did that on a smaller >scale :)). > >PS: Leroy, how long should we continue to post BOTH to the old and the new >server? > >DM >Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac >First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > >Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > >Join the Mystara Webring at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > >Join the Starfleet Academy at: >http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) >************************************************************************** * >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:57:29 EST From: Scoooman@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 11/5/99 11:59:32 AM, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: <> As you can see as per Marco's example, it is not that hard to do as I said before, is it? And as for my attacks being based on prejudice instead of intellect, i'll have you know that this was based completely on the intellect of a 17 year old staying home from school cause he's sick and on extremely odd medication, k? Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:18:19 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 11/5/99 2:16:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Scoooman@aol.com writes: << Ps. A 36th level Cleric would have to be questing for Immortality, a 36th level fighter has his own kingdom, and a 36th level druid wouldn't destroy a kingdom (it's against their nature). And both druids and clerics don't cast spells dear, only magus do that ;-P >> Only characters that prove WORTHY will be granted knowledge of the immortals and how to attempt ascention to their ranks. Just because one is a cleric or at their maximum level doesn't mean the characer is worthy enough to become an Immortal. And why wouldn't a druidic circle destroy a kingdom? If said kingdom gained an evil ruler working to deforest the druids protected lands or heavily strip mining and area, thus unbalancing and destroying the ecosystem, I see no reason why the druids cannot act to put things back into balance...by any means nescesary. Druids and clerics would agree that they do not wield the clumsy spell magic of the magus; they channel the will of the immortals. Arminath Wynter, Old Man of the North *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 17:24:18 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: [MYSTARA] - I missed something Is there a new list? I missed a lot of posts late last month. Jim Bobb *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 16:27:14 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >3. Communication in those days was NOT instantaneous. If you believe >it >was, then you are contradicting yourself more than you ever could, >backpeddling so fast you're doing the moonwalk even. You say >"REmember, both >sides are going to have wizards. Confirmation can be a matter of >momments:: >ESP, teleport, those scrolls that display whatever is written on the >other. >It works both ways" Um, last time I checked, ESP is not a form of >communiaction, it's merely "Extra Sensory Perception" not "Telepathy" >which >is a psionic ability (which we'll get into later). But see, you also >said >that wizards and magical use was not common, I mean, why would it be, >all the >wizards are trying to be greedy with magic, and in some places, magic >use is >even illegal. So if the use of magic was so rare, and outlawed in >some >places even, why would a king use his wizards to communicate with his >army, >at the risk of breaking his own laws? Remember, in most places, a >king could >still get "impeached" as it were if he were thought to be an unfit >ruler. I have never said that magic use was uncommon. Yes, a wizard could easily take out a kingdom, but only if there was not another wizard trying to protect the kingdom. I mean, every single ruler on Mystara either has a court wizard or is a mage him/herself. In the scenarios given, what is this wizard doing? Sitting around playing games? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:49:21 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards You are applying modern society views to a medievil culture. If a leader disobey's the king, you can guarantee that that leader will be beheaded by next sunfall. Not only that, depending on the situation, his entire family would be strip of their status and his lands forfieted. I don't want to change the topic to general access magical communication and transportation. I doubt anyways that most armies (except Alphatian, Herathian, and Glantri) would have such facilities for all of their armies. - -- On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 10:49:16 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> I would beleive that the point is lost. Why would a leader in his right >> mind change the orders of a general or king. > >Because he's in his right mind? If told to perform an act of highly >questionable strategy, a leader is bound to question precisely because he >IS a leader and not a follower. Do you tell me that everyone you know >immediately follows orders at work, however loony, without question? If >so, I'd hate to be in your job. > >> Also, communication back in those days is deplorably primative. The >> army cannot be "quickly" turned around. > >Communication back in WHAT days? The days of instantaneous (sp?) magical >communication? > >- Mischa > >The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and >embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is >good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 23:55:24 +0100 From: Jamuga Khan Subject: [MYSTARA] - The continued story (was: A new project) > Greetings. > > While war wages upon the planes of the Immortals over rules > systems, I've been considering something else... > > I've been planning, half-heartedly and sometimes with greater > vigor, the idea of writing my own net series of stories based > in the world of Mystara. Naturally, Bruce Heard's work with > "The Voyage of the Princess Ark" is a great source of > inspiration in this regard. I've also considered lately that > I really, for myself, need to start writing something, > anything at all, because unfortuantely, I seemed to be cursed > to become a writer, and I'd best be good at it. > > My tentative title for the series is "Tales from the Known > World". I don't intend it to be a narrow field, but possibly > to have multiple storylines and characters. My initial story > idea is of a Minroth Merchant-Prince, who is contracted by > the Guilds to circumnavigate the world and find new ports > and cultures to establish trading relations with. I envision > a sailing ship, and a host of crew that are from many > cultures, nations, and races. (The crew of the Pequod from > Moby Dick is an extremely good visual of this.) > > So why am I bringing it up? Well, I could gladly use some > help. Submissions of story ideas and characters would be > greatly welcomed, and aid in designing areas the ship and > crew will be visiting would also be good. If none can do so, > then I'll do it all myself, but I'd expect it to take a bit > longer than usual in that case. I've not decided yet if I'm > going to write it in a journal format like the Princess Ark > was, or in a direct 1st or 3rd person format. > > I should add here, as a personal rant of sorts, that to me, > it's always stories that make a campaign world come alive. > Most of the campaign settings have done little for me, until > I read an exceptional story based upon it. (Faerun was just > a hokey name so far as I was concerned, until I read the > Icewind Dale trilogy.) More than anything, stories can not > only bring life to the setting, but also continue it. > (Consider Battletech and Shadowrun, which keep a continuous > narrative with every book, and as Forgotten Realms has > started to do.) > > Well, let me know what you think. > > IronWolf > > "It's Specularum, damn it!" Funny, that some ideas pop up at the same time in different places, as I was developing the idea about something similar. The difference is that I was planning to organize the thing as a game: Every member of the game writes one little chapter, and in the end we'll see the result. Is anybody interested in participating in that game? With a little luck the result is a story we could present to others. Jamuga Khan "Hear and obey, because the Mighty Khan's word is law!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:13:34 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >> 3. Communication in those days was NOT instantaneous. > >Again, I want to know WHAT days. This is a fantasy setting, darn it, and >not a historical one. But this is just your opinion. Others may like the historical and cultural emphasis placed into the Mystara campaign. Some players might enjoy role-playing historical or fantasy cultures in the pseudo-historical campaign rather than being pupperteered by the whims of a GM. As a student of history, sociology, anthropology, and over 7 languages, I attempt to offer a little more and try to make systems more realistic and interesting. I wish the players to have a sense that they are interacting within a world and can actually change the state of affairs. And in doing this, I think that the power of wizards is not well thought out. Most of D&D is presented as if magic never existed. However magic does exist, and it does impose an imbalance if deployed creatively by ambitious wizards. For wizards in Mystara there is no basis of social norms that will confine a wizard to a given set of guidelines in which to use his powers. In most societies of this time, and even in modern times, possession of such power will undoubtedly be self-serving. It is questionable why other wizards of like mind would promulgate their knowledge. With priest, there are a set of rules that forms the identity of the priest. If the priest does not these ideas and share a common philosophy, his powers will be forever lost. This limits the usage of such powers of a given priest through social norms and by their constituents and affiliates. A wizard given its presentation in Mystara has no foundation or beleifs. The common beleif expressed by others is that wizards will be self-serving, including those of Alphatia. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:13:45 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards A quick comment about magical communication. If magical communication was taken place, which I feel IHMO that this would be rare, the communicator could be that very same wizard attempting to usurp the king's power. When a wizard is hired, how can one trust his loyalties. How is one to say he is not manipulating and plotting in the background. The wizards are far superior in intelligence than most average people, and with such power, it is all too tempting - -- On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:58:10 Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > >> What the hell is going on here? It is obvious that Mischa is somewhat >> confused as to what is going on > >Simply because I disagree with you? If there is a flaw in my logic, >please point it out rather than resort to ad hominem attacks. > >> 1. A Wizard of high level is potentially the most powerful class available, >> this is demonstrated not only by the availability of spells, the manipulative >> powers, but the myriad of restrictions applied to the wizard, such as no >> metal armor and a limited use of weapons. > >Every class has restrictions and limitations. A 16-th level mystic is in >many ways superior. A 36th level cleric has access to far more >destructive magicks than a 36th level magic-user, plus is much tougher in >situations where magic usage is prevented. A 36th level druid has the >most damaging spell in the game. A 36th level fighter who is a grand >master with a good blade can do an easy 60 points of damage each round >for a long duration, whereas mages have few spells that can reliably >inflict that amount and a limited number of castings. I just don't see >what's special about a lone mage. > >> 3. Communication in those days was NOT instantaneous. > >Again, I want to know WHAT days. This is a fantasy setting, darn it, and >not a historical one. > >- Mischa > >The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and >embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is >good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:33:45 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards >A quick comment about magical communication. If magical communication was taken place, which I feel IHMO that this would be rare, the communicator could be that very same wizard attempting to usurp the king's power. > >When a wizard is hired, how can one trust his loyalties. How is one to say he is not manipulating and plotting in the background. The wizards are far superior in intelligence than most average people, and with such power, it is all too tempting Reminds me of an old Dragon mag article - the Long Arm of the Law, concerning the justice system in D&D. It didn't mention magic, but a subsequent note (in Forum I think) did. It made the point that any magical evidence is only as reliable as the magic user doing to the divination. Such evidence would generally not be considered as 100% proof - circumstancial evidence, perhaps. (I suppose it would be a bit like forensic science). The same thing applies for ANY service provided by a wizard, including magical communications. I would say that only in comparatively rare cases (Imperial Alphatian Navy, Jaggars Grand Army, that sort of thing) would mages be trusted to deliver these sorts of service. Rob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 16:23:55 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards However, unlike cellular phones and pagers, wizards with such abilities are people. Why would they serve someone? Could the general trust them? How could his loyalties be verified? What countries would permit usage of spellcasters in their culture? What countries can afford these mages? How many mages can they afford? Are these mages available for hire or contract (like Mana-Temps :)? What is the frequency of available mages that have these communication and/or transportation abilities? - -- On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 14:25:37 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> Oh but this is a historical setting. What year is your campaign running in? >> 1999 AD? > >No, it's set in a world with immortal beings of tremondous power, of magic >and mysticism. Therefore it allows for more methods of communication than >existed in the medieval era. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:15:04 EST From: Demmero@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something In a message dated 11/5/99 5:26:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: << Is there a new list? I missed a lot of posts late last month. >> Yup. You can sign up from the WotC site (www.wizards.com). I believe the list of lists can be found in the Community section, then Discussion Lists. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:37:11 EST From: Arminath@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something Thanks, got it now :) Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:01:04 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] The New List is Open For Business [Repost] [Note: I am not mispelling the word s u b s c r i b e below accidentally. It is like that so the list serving software doesn't kick this message back since it has list commands.] Mystarans, The new list on WotC's servers is now open for business. Some of you have already suubscribed, and do not need to do so again. Everyone else needs to suubscribe themselves to the new list. For various technical reasons I cannot do this for you as a bulk transfer. To suubscribe send e-mail to... listserv@oracle.wizards.com ...with the following command in the body of the e-mail... suubscribe MYSTARA-L [Name] ...where the [Name] is removed and replaced with your name. This includes removing the brackets []. Remove the extra "u" in the command as well. Name must be two different words, such as... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Ron Jeremy ...or... suubscribe MYSTARA-L Dark Knight When you suubscribe you will receive an e-mail message asking for confirmation of you suubscription. This is a security feature. Simply follow its instructions. You will then recieve a confirmation message that you are on. Once suubbed you can then post. The address to post to is... mystara-l@oracle.wizards.com There is no seperate Digest for this list. It is an option for the main list. Everyone that suubscribes is set to normal. Everyone that already suubscribed was reset to normal. To get mail in digest mode, send the following command to the same address... set MYSTARA-L digest That is pretty much all you need to do and know that is different for now. I will be updating the FAQ for the list and should hopefully be posting it sometime on my site. I will make an announcement at that point. You do not have to unsuubscribe from the old list. On November 13th I will be unsuubbing everyone from it. I will be posting this notice every so often before then to catch new suubscribers. Note that this two week period is not so everyone can take their time, but rather to allow people away from their e-mail accounts to have time to find out about what is up. Starting on November 6th anyone posting to the old list will be unsuubbed from it (though not the new list). Feel free to post to both for the next couple of days. Yes, that means people will get it twice, but let's face it, a move like this is going to be a pain either way, so lets grit our teeth and get through it. As always, if you have problems, let me know. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 20:02:23 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Posting to the Old List DM meandered post scriptly... > PS: Leroy, how long should we continue to post BOTH to the old and the new > server? Feel free to stop now, if you want. The absolute time limit on posting to the old list is November 6th. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:25 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - I missed something In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:26:39 Eastern Standard Time, Arminath@aol.com writes: > Is there a new list? I missed a lot of posts late last month. Yes. You should move to the new list at once -- the old list is being shut down soon. The easiest way to join the new list is to send an e-mail to: listserv@oracle.wizards.com with no subject line (or "(no subject)" if you are still using a very old version of the AOL software) and the following command in the body of the message: SUBSCRIBE MYSTARA-L Firstname Lastname SET MYSTARA-L NOMIME INFO REFCARD END The first command will subscribe you to the new list. The second command prevents you from receiving MIME files -- an option that is inconvenient at best for AOL -- and will also list the current list options. The third command tells you the commands for changing the various options -- so be sure to save them. The last command simply tells the listserver to ignore your signature and anything else that may follow. Of the various options available through the list server, you should definitely select the NOMIME option (AOL seems to have a fit with MIME) and seri- ously consider NODIGEST. You should also select the SUBJECTHDR option if it turns out that Leroy was mistaken about being able to make it the default header setting. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #488 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Sunday, November 7 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 489 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards [MYSTARA] - Magical warfare Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:28 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:41:13 Eastern Standard Time, anowack@juno.com writes: > I mean, every single ruler on Mystara > either has a court wizard or is a mage him/herself. Does that include the sultan of Ylaruam and the king of Ostland? How about the king of Rockhome and the Sheriffs of the Five Shires? I can think of quite a few Mystaran rulers who do quite well without mages -- although most of them do make up for that lack by having powerful priests nearby. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:29 EST From: Kaviyd@aol.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:51:50 Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > You are applying modern society views to a medievil culture. > > If a leader disobey's the king, you can guarantee that that leader will be > beheaded by next sunfall. Not only that, depending on the situation, his > entire family would be strip of their status and his lands forfieted. But he could just as easily be beheaded for obeying the orders of an obvious imposter. Remember, a wizard who uses illusion spells to impersonate a king is likely to make mistakes -- and the commander of an army, who should have some personal acquaintance with the king, would be on the lookout for such mistakes if his king shows up in a suspicious manner. Remember, in a magical world even people who are not spellcasters learn elementary precautions against such tricks -- especially military leaders who would have reason to be expecting them. In fact, if the wizard has not had the chance to do his homework, he could blow it so badly that the common troops catch him -- for example, if his accent is wrong, or if he waves a hand with a missing left thumb when all of the soldiers know that it was his right thumb that he lost in the legendary battle that made him king. An imposter that clumsy and stupid might be killed by the common soldiers even without orders to do so from their leader. Needless to say, most wizards would not attempt that sort of impersonation if they haven't personally met the VIP in question, for just that reason. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:16:43 +0200 (EET) From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: [MYSTARA] - Magical warfare Here be spoilers for WotI, year 1005AC. Inspired by the ultimately stupefying "Wizards" -thread, I began my gran'ol' pondering about the Glantri-Alphatia -war. As the Alphatia begins the magical assault, what kinds of attacks do they use? {For convenience, I do not use 1000*M36 -Grand Council IMC, there are instead a thousand wizards who can cast 9th level spells (1000*M21+), just to keep the game a little more balanced. And in my game, there is no queue to M36-estates of Sclaras in Thyatis} In my game, we live Ambyrmont 1005. The Alphatian assault begun with the grand monster invasion in Thaumont. Alphatia had prepared and organized itself for some months before attacking Glantri. As the analytics said during the Monster's Fair (Vatermont), the monster prices plunged in Thaumont. Glantrians never saw any of the wizards summoning the critters, they just saw the results. As the fighting against the generic monsters begun to bore me in the Klarmont, the Council of the Princes voted "yah" for the national Teleport-shield. The shield was rised by Harald Haaskinz and Volospin Aendyr to prevent any dimensional travel within the Principalities. As the downside, you can't 'port around these days. Now Glantrians must travel the normal way in the land still full of interdimensional monsters. In Felmont, the Alphatia attacked a new way. As the southern Glantri was practically roasted (temperature 40-50 degrees celsius (!)), the northern Glantri was striken by very cold nights. Practically this destroyed the most of the food production. The council immediately elected a committee of weather controlling, led by Volospin Aendyr, but the damage was done - -- the mundaners will be hungry in wintertime. In Felmont, Alphatia struck mentally in some problems of Glantri. They had finally identified some members of ELF, FAERY, Followers of the Fire and Followers of the Claymore. All of the factions have mustered their forces, blaming their own little nemesises, preparing to fight to death. In Ambyrmont, Belcadizans begin by blowing up Carlotina Erewan's flat in the City, and the ELF of course retaliates. Meanwhile, the Fire-ists try to murder Volospin Aendyr who is considered a traitor. In Fyrmont, Alphatia tried to disable the Glantrian commanders. IMC, the council divided the defence in military and magical defence. Military is commanded by Jaggar von Drachenfels, Magical coordination is done by Brannart McGregor (!). Both Ritterburg and Crownguard are attacked simultaneously by overkilling magical assaults. Both keeps are practically levelled. Jaggar managed to escape to City, Brannart was beheaded by an Alphatian paladin. Moments after the Alphatians retire, Brannart puts his head back to its place and goes on with his business. In Ambyrmont, the Alphatians assault the Glantrian leaders mentally. Stupid orders were given and obeyed. F.ex. the Baron of Ylourgne ordered his men to burn the food storages of Morlay, and the Morlay-ans retaliated by burning down the storages of Ylourgne. What WILL happen soon: In Sviftmont, the Glantrians make their new coldness records, as the winter is both early and cold. The coldness in Morlay area leads into the spread of the lycantrophy, as some of the people rather become werewolves than freeze to death during the long and cold winter. In Boldavia area, people just die. In Eirmont, a massive ritual spell attacks Klantyre and Boldavia, taking control of the most of the local undead. The undead fight the local populace, striking down the morale of the people, who accuse the Necromancers of treachery. In Kaldmont, as the war has raged for a year, the situation looks grim to the Glantrians. But, what next..? What e l s e ? How would the magocrats respond? What would they do against a magical force that seems to be superior? In my game, I assumed that Alphatia attacks Thyatis conventionally and Glantri magically, while ignoring the most of the Heldannia. Heldanners are kept busy against the Khanates, but they still can use their warbirds against the Imperial Air Fleet. When the war ends, there will be only smoking and frozen ruins of the Principalities left. - Markus ----------------------------------------------------------------- W A R I S P E A C E F R E E D O M I S S L A V E R Y I G N O R A N C E I S S T R E N G T H ----------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 23:25:39 +0100 From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards "Does that include the sultan of Ylaruam and the king of Ostland? How about the king of Rockhome and the Sheriffs of the Five Shires? I can think of quite a few Mystaran rulers who do quite well without mages -- although most of them do make up for that lack by having powerful priests nearby." yes of course there are no official magist in the five shire but there is a very old gold dragon in disgise, always ready to help and defend. - -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. Check out my sites : The main page is at http://www.mystara.com.bi Also, the Mapping Zone is at http://www.mystara-maps.com.bi And finally the Gazeteer zone is at http://www.mystara-gazeteers.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:42:17 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards This naturally makes sense. Priests are affiliated with an order and structure. They would act within that role and be trusted in that regard. For example, the religious clan of DenWarf (RockHome in dwarven) worship Kagyar the supposed creator of dwarves. They would not betray their race, nor king, but they might political oppose other clans that are in disagreement with their goals. Wizards however do not come from such a cohesive structured order. They are most likely self serving in some sense. Some may not. But how can a king tell, or verify one's works. I think magic use and wizards are far too common and abundant. There are no checks and balances. - joaquin - -- On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:28 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:41:13 Eastern Standard Time, >anowack@juno.com writes: > >> I mean, every single ruler on Mystara >> either has a court wizard or is a mage him/herself. > >Does that include the sultan of Ylaruam and the king of Ostland? >How about the king of Rockhome and the Sheriffs of the Five Shires? >I can think of quite a few Mystaran rulers who do quite well without >mages -- although most of them do make up for that lack by having >powerful priests nearby. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 15:59:01 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards There are lot of "what if's" in your points. One big question is how intimately does a leader know the king. Yes the generals could know the king closely, but those under that rank may not. I think the question of the success of such a stunt depends on the intelligence of the impersonator. For a wizard, whom normally has a high intelligence, this can be very great. Of course impersonation is not the only way of re-deploying an army. There are other ways which will not raise suspicion. As far as training against impersonation. It is highly doubtful given medieval times to the past. There are countless times this has been done by normal people in the history and in fiction. As for magical impersonation, this would be extremely doubtful that a common ranking officer would even have the opportunity for such training. - -- On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:29 Kaviyd wrote: >In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:51:50 Eastern Standard Time, >darknerd@hotbot.com writes: > >> You are applying modern society views to a medievil culture. >> >> If a leader disobey's the king, you can guarantee that that leader will be >> beheaded by next sunfall. Not only that, depending on the situation, his >> entire family would be strip of their status and his lands forfieted. > >But he could just as easily be beheaded for obeying the orders of an >obvious imposter. Remember, a wizard who uses illusion spells to >impersonate a king is likely to make mistakes -- and the commander >of an army, who should have some personal acquaintance with the king, >would be on the lookout for such mistakes if his king shows up in a >suspicious manner. Remember, in a magical world even people who >are not spellcasters learn elementary precautions against such tricks -- >especially military leaders who would have reason to be expecting them. > >In fact, if the wizard has not had the chance to do his homework, he could >blow it so badly that the common troops catch him -- for example, if his >accent is wrong, or if he waves a hand with a missing left thumb when all >of the soldiers know that it was his right thumb that he lost in the legendary >battle that made him king. An imposter that clumsy and stupid might be >killed by the common soldiers even without orders to do so from their leader. >Needless to say, most wizards would not attempt that sort of impersonation >if they haven't personally met the VIP in question, for just that reason. >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:31:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards Wow, this has gotten into some debate > However, unlike cellular phones and pagers, wizards with such abilities > are people. But magical devices that allow communication are not. In fact, they closely resemble cell phones in the sense that they are tools that allow for long-distance communication. > Why would they serve someone? Could the general trust > them? How could his loyalties be verified? What countries would permit > usage of spellcasters in their culture? What countries can afford these > mages? How many mages can they afford? Are these mages available for > hire or contract (like Mana-Temps :)? What is the frequency of > available mages that have these communication and/or transportation > abilities? Most of these same questions explain why the logistics of the 1000 mages (or army of mages) arguments you've been using are unrealistic. If you are conceding that mages aren't trustworthy and don't unite well and few have strong powers, then we're back to the question as to why one mage is any greater a power than one cleric or one mystic. Or more accurately, why one mage is a greater power than a temple of priests or a cloister of mystics, as those groups tend to be organized and united. - - Mischa The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:01:49 -0800 From: "Mr. Darknerd" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards I think the original point presented is that mages are powerful and can pose an imbalancing factor to the game. I am not saying that priests are not powerful as well. I would assert that mages will be more powerful than a priest, simply by the nature of spells accessible to a wizard, such as wish. Thus the simplicity of this arguement is that mages are powerful. If people could agree to this (which it seems some people don't agree), then I could move on to am more prevailing point. regards, Joaquin Menchaca PS - I agree with your points presented here. Just one note though. The magical communications devices were fabricated by a singular person with his own ambitions. Cellular phones are mass produced by corporations. Thus I wouldn't believe that kingdoms and armies would have general acessability to such items. - -- On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 19:31:32 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >Wow, this has gotten into some debate > >> However, unlike cellular phones and pagers, wizards with such abilities >> are people. > >But magical devices that allow communication are not. In fact, they >closely resemble cell phones in the sense that they are tools that allow >for long-distance communication. > >> Why would they serve someone? Could the general trust >> them? How could his loyalties be verified? What countries would permit >> usage of spellcasters in their culture? What countries can afford these >> mages? How many mages can they afford? Are these mages available for >> hire or contract (like Mana-Temps :)? What is the frequency of >> available mages that have these communication and/or transportation >> abilities? > >Most of these same questions explain why the logistics of the 1000 mages >(or army of mages) arguments you've been using are unrealistic. If you >are conceding that mages aren't trustworthy and don't unite well and few >have strong powers, then we're back to the question as to why one mage is >any greater a power than one cleric or one mystic. Or more accurately, >why one mage is a greater power than a temple of priests or a cloister of >mystics, as those groups tend to be organized and united. > >- Mischa > >The modern man says, "Let us leave all these arbitrary standards and >embrace liberty." This is, logically rendered, "Let us not decide what is >good, but let it be considered good not to decide it." - G.K. Chesterton > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 01:14:16 +0000 From: "michael.jones" Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards So Guilds and learning particular spells don't ring bells! "Mr. Darknerd" wrote: > This naturally makes sense. Priests are affiliated with an order and structure. They would act within that role and be trusted in that regard. For example, the religious clan of DenWarf (RockHome in dwarven) worship Kagyar the supposed creator of dwarves. They would not betray their race, nor king, but they might political oppose other clans that are in disagreement with their goals. > > Wizards however do not come from such a cohesive structured order. They are most likely self serving in some sense. Some may not. But how can a king tell, or verify one's works. > > I think magic use and wizards are far too common and abundant. There are no checks and balances. > > - joaquin > > > -- > > On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:28 Kaviyd wrote: > >In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:41:13 Eastern Standard Time, > >anowack@juno.com writes: > > > >> I mean, every single ruler on Mystara > >> either has a court wizard or is a mage him/herself. > > > >Does that include the sultan of Ylaruam and the king of Ostland? > >How about the king of Rockhome and the Sheriffs of the Five Shires? > >I can think of quite a few Mystaran rulers who do quite well without > >mages -- although most of them do make up for that lack by having > >powerful priests nearby. > >*************************************************************************** > >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > >with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. > > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:08:37 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 14:49:21 -0800 "Mr. Darknerd" writes: >You are applying modern society views to a medievil culture. You are forgetting that Mystara has a large number of modern society views in it. MYstara is by no means a purely medeviel world. >I don't want to change the topic to general access magical >communication and transportation. I doubt anyways that most armies >(except Alphatian, Herathian, and Glantri) would have such facilities >for all of their armies. DEspite the fact that every single mYstaran country has plenty of wizards to provide these facilities? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:08:47 -0600 From: anowack@juno.com Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards On Fri, 5 Nov 1999 22:48:28 EST Kaviyd@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 1999-11-05 17:41:13 Eastern Standard Time, >anowack@juno.com writes: > >> I mean, every single ruler on Mystara >> either has a court wizard or is a mage him/herself. > >Does that include the sultan of Ylaruam and the king of Ostland? >How about the king of Rockhome and the Sheriffs of the Five Shires? >I can think of quite a few Mystaran rulers who do quite well without >mages -- although most of them do make up for that lack by having >powerful priests nearby. OK, so I was making a generalization (mainly because I don't have all the Gaz). Change that statement to "Every Mystaran ruler has access to powerful magic of some form or another." Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 01:35:47 +0100 From: DM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] - Wizards At Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:56:17 +0100, "G. SGARBI" wrote: >Ok...tell me how you'll destroy a kingdom with these spells. Ok, since I received many questions regarding this topic, I'll explain you how a high level mage could destroy a middle sized kingdom in one day. First, in order for this plan to work, the mage has to know a certain outer plane where time passes differently from the Prime, that's to say it goes FASTER. One such plane is Night, where Nyx has one of her minor projects (see Isle of Night in M5). If this plane is chosen, the mage has to cast a Shapechange onto himself and take the guise of a high level undead (a lich may be the best choice) in order to survive in the Sphere of Death. If another safer plane is chosen, no Shapechange is needed. Then cast Gate and enter the plane. TO obtain access to the plane the mage must know its name and its ruler's name IMC, but that shouldn't be a problem if the mage has studied it/has already been there. Then he only needs to find a remote area and there he will cast all his Delayed Blast Fireball spells set to 2 rounds and all his Permanence spells on them. Then he uses all the Contingency spells he has with this sentence: "When Fireball is cast within 6 mts of this DBF seed, a Dispel Magic is cast upon the location of this DBF seed." After making himself a huge provvision of permanent DBF, he then returns to the Prime and sets about "planting" the soil of the territory he wants to destroy, planting one DBF seed every 108 sq. mt (each distant 6mts from one another). When he's done, he starts the big explosion by launching a Fireball near the soil, the first Dispel is activated, it dispels the Permanency but not the DBF, which explodes one round later, setting off the Contingency of the nearest DBF which in turn expand the chain... You'd wager that the mage still needs a good deal of time to plant the seeds and he could be spotted, but if he's hasted and is invisible... I think he can do it in less than a day. Check out M5 in order to understand how fast the time can go in an outer plane in comparison to the Prime. The player of this PC mage IMC was able to fight three different battles in less than an hour resting three times in this outer plane and returning to the Prime in less than one minute! DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #489 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message. mystara-digest Tuesday, November 9 1999 Volume 1999 : Number 490 Mystara is a trademark of TSR Inc. All Rights Reserved. The following topics are covered in this digest: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Angels [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Posting to the Old List is Now Punishable by Death! [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Isle of Dread - A surprising discovery [MYSTARA] - I am back ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 01:21:10 +0100 From: DM Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Angels At Fri, 5 Nov 1999 21:24:00 +0100, "Pierre-Paul Durastanti" wrote: >The best resource out there is fairly new -- about three or four months >old, I think. It's called "Warriors of Heaven", and it's a Core AD&D >product (not published under the Planescape [PS] imprint). >Angels are now called devas, solars, planetars, etc. Go for >this book... and use caution, as it allows players to play angelic PCs >with, ahem, *great* powers. :) > I should have been clearer. I already have Warriors of Heaven and bought it just to see how powerful could an angelic PC be.. and also cause in one of my groups there's an NPC archon in disguise, so I wanted to know his powers.. but anyway, that's not what I was looking for. I was actually looking for something on the line of Mayfair's D&D Role Aids on Demons, which thoroughly describe the different types of demonic beings and their hierarchy, providing DMs with stats and also a very detailed background of their social structure and their homeplane. Is there anything like this for D&D made by TSR or any other? And I don't mean Planescape, I mean something using the Christian mythology and calling those exalted beings with their proper (and more evocative) names! I know there are some manuals called Monsters of Myth and Legend that describe many mythical creatures from different mythoi, but I have seen no christian "mythos" so far.. Hope I've made myself clear this time. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 18:32:26 -0700 From: "Leroy Van Camp III" Subject: [MYSTARA] - [ADMIN] Posting to the Old List is Now Punishable by Death! Mystarans and Spacefarers, Ok, maybe not death, but as of this moment posting is not allowed to the old lists at MPGN/ImagicOnline. All posts should be directed at the new servers at WotC. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 05:58:57 -0500 (EST) From: Brad McMillan Subject: [MYSTARA] - Re: [MYSTARA] Isle of Dread - A surprising discovery >Obviously, since both maps are 'canonical' this presents an >amusing conundrum. Which one is right? Well, from a strickly role-playing point of view, I like the idea that both are in fact right. Consider each as being mapped by separate 'Known World' cartographers, the discrepencies reflect their styles, if you like - perhaps even their cultural bias (coming from Karameikos, Thytas, Minrothad, etc..)? You could even create these NPC cartographers! Perhaps they've disputed with each other over who is right, or wrong. Perhaps there are legal documents in the courts of various sea bordering nations that record this dispute? You could probably have a lot of fun with that little "error". ;) Slainte! Brad - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McMillan/Brude Mac a'Mhaoilein "Armchair" Celtic Archae-Anthropologist & Historian Goderich, Ontario, Canada Email: bmcmillan@odyssey.on.ca - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 23:36:02 -0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Martins Subject: [MYSTARA] - I am back Hi, all I will try to keep signed for a while now (at least while I am on vacations and can spare sometime for it, anyway) and would like to know a few things about how things are going. First, I remember having read something about MOrient in the MMB and, as I didn't get anything about that, I am curious if you have created a new group to get it moving. Finally, does anybody knows what has happened to the MMB? Everytime I try to connect there, it tells me the server doesn't exist. Is anybody else having the same problem? André Martins, back in the list (for a little while, at least) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara-l' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of mystara-digest V1999 #490 ******************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe mystara' as the body of the message.