========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:32:15 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Stalker ha scritto: > -- > AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH! > > I *HATE* ALIGNMENTS! > > ...and I *HATE* DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEM! > > [Successfully casts Emotion (Friendship version) on himself] > > ehrm.. well.. that was.. better! Sorry for the outburst, but I'm also on DND-L and it seems that they go through endless essays on this very subject at least once every other week. And that is precisely why I *loathe* alignments: you can never agree on how they are supposed to be applied. I use them as the DM, but I've *FORBIDDEN* my players to use them - it's just causes more problems than it solves. Have people write up descriptions of the characters instead - it's a lot more insightful IMO. You can *NEVER* describe anybody within the rigid 9 categories system of AD&D or even the much broader 3-categories system of OD&D. > > I know that this is very much IMO, but I must say it: > > BAN ALIGNMENTS! > > (thanks - it was good to get it off my chest!) > > - Jens (aka The Stalker of Alphatia) Already done it. Are you thinkin' we here in Port Lucinius are stupid? No alignement. Jail to everybody that causes unrest, obedience to the Empire. And that's all. [Out of character: I hate alignements too. I never used them, because fortunately my characters and players were round enough to avoid that half ridicolous concept] Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:49:07 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: The Changing Face of Glantrian Polit MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > But there is another question that has not been addressed that threatens to > divide the d'Ambrevilles: the Sephora/Marais rivalry. The "nicer" Etienne > will > not want to put too much pressure on Genevieve, especially if he is still in > love with her -- so he may prove totally ineffective in influencing her for > the > better. Would Genevieve let her hatred of Malachie so consume her that she > openly deserts the d'Ambrevilles and sides with Dolores, or would she simply > become a pawn in Dolores's next scheme? My guess is the latter. Genevieve has lived for about 400 years. If she is so consumed with hatred, she would probably such an eeeeevil person already, focued only on destroying Malachie and all werewovles in Mystara (a la Moorkroft Elvenbane to elves). But as it is, she is quite well-adjusted. She's got a strong support system (read: Hey, she's the lover of the most powerful mortal--and Immortal--in Glantri! What else could she want?) and emotionally balanced. I think her long life has given her some wisdom--and patience--and being with Etienne probably rubbed off some Immortal wisdom on her. At the least, I think Genevieve will want some form of compensation from Malachie, although an eeeevil vengeance might not be want she wants now. Perhaps Dolores will approach Genevieve and offer some way to get back at Malachie, which will probably turn out to be more than she bargained for. Could it be that after all these years, Genevieve is not 100% sure that it was Malachie who murdered her father? Maybe after all this time, she is still searching for proof that it was... or maybe was NOT Malachie. As the centuries go by, memories become more blurred and finding the truth would be more difficult for Genevieve. Oh, if only we could travel back in time to that fateful night in Laterre... maybe we could learn the truth! But where can Genevieve ever find such a time-traveller? Hmmm.... Kit Navarro Speaker for House Marais fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "I need to know the truth, Moriamis. For your sake and for Malachie's, I need to know the truth. Will you help me?" --overheard at a soiree in Chateau Sylaire . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:10:14 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Tactics vs Magic - I hate it when I use the wrong email account! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Well, I've seen it happen. A high level hero can always run afoul of > something as simple as a hold person off a 3rd level priest. 1 2 or 3 is > always a fail in high level campaigns :) >And its hard to draft in replacement heroes as well.>> > >however, the Save favors the hero and as a hero the chances are good they >possess enchanted items to better protect themselves from the spells. if >affected the hero has the option of plenty of sword toting bodies around him >to buffer him while incapacitated, perhaps even dragging him back to safety. >as a hero, his worth is worth the sacrifice of several regular troops to >insure the hero fights again. imagine a moderately equipped 10th level >fighter hero. how many standard issue F1s equal his presence on a >battlefield? imo you could easily justify ten F1s being risked to block a >killing assault and to pull him to safety. even if most are lost a 10th lvl >fighter could easily make up for the losses and then some. either way, the >hero has the better save than his contemporary F1 or F2 trooper. Well, a 1 2 or 3 natural roll is always a fail in AD&D. And it comes back to attrition again, even if the hero only has to make one "save or die" in a week of fighting, eventually he's going to be unlucky and get killed. Of course the 1st level fighters will get killed more often, but they are more easily replaced. Besides, I always assume that the "Hero Content" of both sides will generally even it out. > Well, yes, the possession of magic does not insure victory. I thought that > was what this whole thread was about...>> > >nah...my part of the thread dealt with the depiction of alpher fighter troops >and their relationship to alpher magic on the battlefield. but as with most >threads the subject matter ends up covering more and more attributes....often >overshadowing the original subject of the thread. Well, and I quote... from the only paragraph in DoE that concerns itself with the Alph army... "...because the noble classes are disinterested in the doings of the military, the nonmagic users in charge of the military tend to be very practical in their choice of weapons, you dont see troops being ordered into battle with bagpipes and daggers for example..." That does not strike me as a ringing endorsement of the quality of the Alphatian armed forces. That strikes me as a comment which means that the Alphie army is not a complete joke, which you may otherwise believe. So the Alphers have just about managed to arm their troops with weapons that actually work, fortunately because the nobility havn't meddled yet. >i won't dispute the napoleonic ties of the sharpshooter. however given that >most mystaran nations are wedged into a medieval/renaissance mold...the >napoleonic period and its rifles are a bit beyond them. of course >contemporary fantasy weapons could be tweaked to offer sharpshooters type >tactics, either through refined crossbows or elite bowmen. in fact i use a >sharpshooter in the a few of the Davanian peoples. these are mostly skilled >and trained troops that weild a specialized super heavy crossbow to afford >greater range. they work in teams; one or two shooters with a spotter to >assist in target acquisition and reloading. Sounds cool! > No, I agree that the 1000 have certainly not all got invovled. But there > are more than that in Alphatia. Just because the archmages havnt deigned to > acknowledge the war doesnt mean to say that the midlevels and lowlevels > arent heavily involved. And there must be some militants in those 1000 > wizards...>> > >oh yes i agree that some would become more involved. whether it be >nationalism, the thrill of war, or by imperial decree certain mages would see >action. as nobles...alpher mid and high level mages would fall into a >position to be more selective in their participation...either as officers or >heroes....and able to offer themselves additional protections and enchanted >weaponry. low level mages would fill out the magical rank and file (4-5% of >the total force; based on general alpher spellcaster/nonspellcaster >population ratios). True. And the presence of the mages (ie, the nobility) will doubtless have an effect on the tactics used. ie, you would expect, from a nation where magic is the only thing that is respected, that magic will be the only respected tactic on the battlefield. Especially when the battle tactics (in war) are probably being made up by the 4-5% of the force that are the Alphatian aristocracy, ie mages. ><< When thinking about what would be on the battlefield I kept the levels > generally as low as possible really (while still providing a challenge to > the PCs). The highest level mage I used actually in the fight was level 7, > but there were quite a few mages around the level 3 area. Enough to make a > difference.>> > >that sounds about right in my thinking. while i propose a more skilled alpher >melee fighter, i also am against an army of mages. imo armies should be a >representation of a society. and war is a burden the nation bears. therefore >the armies should be an equal representation of the populace; low level >troops of classes demonstrative of the nation as a whole. however, troop >diversity should be enough to make an army workable on the battlefield. True enough of reservists and conscripts, but you would expect regulars to be a bit more capable. >yep....there was still a bit of that residual napoleonic aspect in warfare. >troop quality was seen as the deciding factor in a battle. the widespread >deployment of machineguns and the refinement of artillery made the matter of >troop quality a lessened factor. industrialization made these possible. it >also added to the fixed positions as logistic demands and structures were not >as flexible to allow support of advances without a good degree of time. >usually this time saw the advances nullified by counterattack and the >positions retaken. WW1 was a meatgrinder and as long as men were available to >fill the ranks it would continue. Logistics is a good point. The supply of expendables usually limited the duration of a battle prior to the 20th century, but modern transportation and the ability to constantly supply troops on the battlefield meant that a battle could go on indefinitely. Magic could quite easily help here, from the lowly create food right up to teleport without error. Both sides (every nation on the planet, in fact) have access to at least some of this. >well...i think that for wrath maneuver was less of a matter on the kingdom >level, but more of a matter of individual units maneuvering against an >opposing force's units. imo battles were "set piece" in layout. the IoD >offensive seems the best campaign where both armies were feeling each other >out and trying to win superiority. i like to think that there were two or >three inconclusive battles, before one side could claim an area and lay siege >to a city. that city taken, the forces engaged at the next objective. i wish >that the 2+ years of IoD fighting had been described a bit more. Well, even if you say that, assuming that there was not constant fighting, the front line must have been quite heavily fortified by both sides. They were sitting there for nigh on 2 years after all... > < maneuver which encircles and breaks the northern Thyatian line. And when > the Alphatians start rolling the line up, heading south, the Thyatians find > themselves in real trouble. This is the point in the timeline when the > Thyatians start losing - aside from the early loss of some strategic > locations due to incompetence, of course.>> > >Helskir's siding with alph also implies a realization of thyatian forces >weakening with undertones of defeatism. if the war was going thyatis's way or >inconclusive, Helskir's siding with alph would have been doubtful....better >to sit on the fencepost. by allying with alph, the northern third of the IoD >head was freed up and those alph forces could be used in the central part of >the island. reinforced and the thyatian troops diminished, the ball gets >rolling. the problem with this theory is that Wrath sees so many quirky >alliances. so the rationale behind Helskir jumping fence can be attributed as >much to scripting as it could be to recognizing the way things were heading. Well, yeah. In military terms it means that Thyatis is now fighting on two sides - defending against the north as well as the east. This is quite late on in the war too so you can expect some war weariness from both sides. That could be the last straw. > Yeah, but 1 mobile mage is not a problem. I'm talking about shifting > military units of troops about - say, a couple of hundred individuals.>> > >as a kit, those hundred war mages could be trained. the Gazs abound with kits >and exceptions to the rules. though intended to add local variety and kingdom >individuality, the kits/variations can be implemented into a PC/NPC and >therefore a soldier. Glantri's military mage is probably the most known troop >kit. though not magical, i'd also include the Ethie horse archer...who breaks >a number of riding and archery rules. i have no problems with kits as long as >they are used with common sense and demonstrate the time needed to train and >develop. Well, I've got Imperial Boltman as a kit, so in theory I agree with you there. However, some stuff is pretty well Enshrined in Stone. Mages cannot cast if they get hit before they get the spell off. Mages cannot cast from the back of a galloping horse. This stuff is set in stone IMO. If you fool around with this stuff, you may as well throw game balance out the window. You practically force yourself to make a kit for fighters, the Mage Killer, to compensate. Its just an arms race. I think making up kits is a cheap shot, personally. Thats just rewriting the rules - far better to work within the rules and find solutions IMO. >well...with the mass burning of the skyships at Aasla i figured that the >boltmen would be used elsewhere without their warships. you could also >theorize that boltmen...or a variant...were used in imperial forces. >anyway...a magic missile may be outranged by a long bow and be of slightly >lesser damage. however it is an automatic hit...no save, no attack roll, no >range modifiers. if the caster can see you, you're hit receiving 2-5 points >of damage. if you were a 2nd level fighter and had lost a quarter of your >hitpoints, would you charge into a group of equally armed and armored >opponents....even if they were F1. just imagine your favorite PC, reduced to >5 hps, would you jump into a group of orcs, where one hit could do you in? Well, I always say that 1st level characters get maximum hit points - seems a common enough rule. In AD&D your level 2 fighters will have 10+1d10 hit points, and a magic missile is just a flyswat. Course, the boltmen will have 4+2d4 hit points, and a worse armour class, and very limited ammunition. And less attacks in melee, doing less damage. 2-5 points of damage on the fighter before he gets into melee is irrelevant, the boltmen are going down. Depending on what rules you use fighters could even be getting things like shield parries and so on. This is assuming the boltmen havnt been splattered all over the ground by archer fire or even by hurled javelins as the Thyatians charge. I hate to labour the point, but in an open field the boltmen would be shot by archers before they even got close, and in close quarter fighting, such as forest, they probably wouldnt get off a volley till the fighter was in range. >no...i mean that a boltmen would form a fire line, for a steady flow of 10-20 >magic missile bolts. as for longbow shots, they would be protected by their >own longbowmen and distance. if need be they can be removed from fire by a >withdrawal of a few feet and brought up to the line in moments. they could >also find cover behind a shield bearer or shield wall. Essentially they >provide a precise short to medium range missile weapon. their use in this >manner denotes a defensive posture. however it could be part of a paced >assault formation like the Roman Tortoise Formation (raised shields) until >the enemy comes within magic missile range. that is where the fighter troops >around the boltmen or mages come in. they have to be able to hold their own >and support the boltmen. you can match enemy longbows with your own >longbowmen, forming an overlap area where attack rolls and range modifiers >apply to both sides. in close range you have to have a strong sword arm and >stout shield to keep the enemy off the boltmen so they can offer their magic >missiles. it also keeps it from a slugging match and introduces th need for >regimental and even divisional maneuvering to pierce or avoid the enemy >longbow umbrella. OK, if they are in a firing line I hardly expect the enemy just to charge straight into them. The presence of boltmen seems to suggest less, if any, archers - assuming a force of equal size. How many troops do want geared to ranged fighting, after all? And against arrows the boltmen are more of a liability than an asset, with their mage hit points and armour class. In the War of Wrath I imagine these boltmen would be advancing towards a heavily dug in Thyatian position (after all, it was the Alphies who were on the offence), possibly having to cross all sorts of little surprises (fire trap mines, caltrops with poison on them, (even caltrops without poison on them prove nasty to mages), tanglefoot spells (who needs razor wire?), cavalry deterring spikes, large boulders to break up the enemy formation, perhaps something like a fence for them to climb over (happened to Pickett) coming under fire from troops probably in 90% cover, who are quite likely to have things like catapults even farther back throwing such undesirables as pots of greek fire. >well they do have a history as an imperialist people...though admitedly most >of their expansion is based within their first century or so upon mystara. >with every nonAlpher a potential enemy a formidable armed forces are in >order. my vision of the alpher forces are: an imperial army, an imperial sea >navy, an imperial air navy, and alpher kingdom forces. the kingdom forces >being the bulk of the alpher military and including their own land, sea >(coastal kingdoms), and some air units. They have a history of just moving in by weight of numbers, and then being ousted when their odious tyranny looks too much. Read the Ylaraum gaz, the Alphatians were a soft option for the Ylari, due to their incompentence. They threw them out no probs, while it says that the Thyatian troops proved to be much harder to dislodge. >anyway....Alph is weird, hence its appeal. why travel abroad for adventure >and intrigue when you step out into the street. though chaotic...yes i >believe that even the mundaners share a good degree of that attribute...there >is a sense of "order in the chaos". just look at the US, if we Americans >aren't chaotic i don't know what is. however we sport one of the finest >armies in the world. >chaos also breeds variation and individualism. this would apply to the >military as well, making an alpher war machine seeing a variety of >configurations and tactics. their performance in battle could be an excellant >litmus test to tactics to use against a more uniform thyatian military >machine. if kingdoms A,B, and C do well or moderately, then their tactics are >adopted. Individualism is not exactly a desirable trait in a well ordered fighting machine. Just look at Planescape for some extreme alignment examples. The well oiled fighting machines can be found on Mechanus, Arcadia, Acheron and Baator - ie, all the lawful planes. I also note that this is sort of mentioned in the morale rules - chaotic troops get a penalty, while lawful troops get a bonus. ie, if you are an individual, with no sense of "capbadge honour" as they call it in the British army, you are more concerned with your own hide rather than that of your unit. So, you are more likely to run away when the going gets tough. An army should not be a collection of individuals. Its all about teamwork. All the tactics you mention are about teamwork. It all flies in the face of their alignment and national character. Boltmen hiding behind shieldbearers? Sure, it may be a good tactic, but it doesnt strike me as an Alphatian tactic. >well the 1000 wizards constantly draw fire as being unbalancing and is >usually diluted by reinterpreting the DotE sections on it. as i see it the >council is a nonfactor in mainstream gaming. it's not like your pcs are going >to kick down a door and find them in a room sitting on chests filled with a >gazzillion gps and a bookoodles of enchanted items. the council is a setting >characteristic; much like the thyatian 250 wizards of sclaras, the immortals, >or even the mages of Honor Island. these spellcasting bodies are not >considered as "unbalancing" to the setting. I agree that the council is basically irrelevant in the game. Sclaras is something the players dont even know about IMC :) I justify some of it due to scale, Alphatia has a population of around 5 million, which is probably about equal to the entire Flanaess as far as I can make out. > < Thyatians, who presumably have thought about this problem a lot, being a > warlike nation and "worshipping an Immortal called Efficiency".>> > >actually i agree that thyatis would have a degree of magic within their >forces beyond the RAF and clerical contributions. however, the efficiency >clause may limit their integration of mages into the armed forces. mages are >a minority, even in those up to adventurer standards. they take time to train >and develope. as already established, spells usually are outranged by missile >weapons. individually mages are physically weak, especially in melee combat. >so mages, especially low level ones, may not be the most efficient troop type >for thyatis. You are highlighting all the problems that I pointed out with the use of boltmen. I refer you to your earlier comments on Roman Tortoises (doubtless called Thyatian Tortoises on Mystara) and shieldbearers. This is the sort of stuff Thyatians use, lawful Thyatians, as opposed to chaotic Alphatians. Lawful Thyatians with a highly disciplined and well trained army (the army is constantly being harped on about in the Empire of Thyatis leaflet thingy. In the Alphie book the army gets a paragraph). > >>and adapt spells, troops, and mages into an army. > Ahh, S&P. Well, the less that about that the better. I'm talking about > mages here - you know mages? the guys in the Players Handbook? That have > graced this game since the seventies? Lets leave the modern equivalent of > cavaliers and assassins out of it.>> > >i'll agree with the apprehensions of S&P to a degree. given time and enough >slots you can create all manner of variations on the theme. i do think that >they do serve a purpose in acquiring talents, but i see them as often being >overused for power attributes and unneccessary for obvious skills such as >swimming. still, i think they can be used as long as you stay away from >overdoing things especially if the support a reasonable kit. and speaking of >kits, if we introduce the sharpshooter kit we should introduce a improved >mage kit. fair is fair. Well, I always feel guilty bringing up AD&D stuff in this setting personally, let alone S&P. You dont need a sharpshooter kit, I was assuming 1st level fighters (say, Myrmidon kit I would guess, existing stuff) with specialisation in longbow. Hardly a rewrite, you could even ditch the kit and make do with a 1st level, no kit, Players Handbook fighter. >if they are so wigged out then why isn't the thyatian standard flying above >sundsvall...or at least the entire IoD or Belly. imo the cold war rivalry of >thy and alph were detrimental to the two as they were grouped together in >DotE as a lump sum. for their size, each really needed its own Gaz to added >the needed details and descriptions. i mean jeez louise ierendi and atruaghin >got their own gazs. >anyway...decline and drunken stuppors are also found in thyatis through >corruption. and the general inference of DotE is that thyatis was in its own >decline approaching Wrath. Valerias corrupted Thyatis, so probably the Thyatian officer corps is just like the Alphie one. Just look at the strengths of the two armies. Basically, in a nutshell, you have Alphie magic versus Thyatian quality. Valerias removed that quality, leaving the Thys with nothing. Due to the fact that she only corrupted the top layers, the Thy footsoldier, lions led by donkeys that they were, still managed to hold off the Alphatian hordes for several years. If Valerias didnt corrupt the Thyatian ranks, I reckon the war would have been an entirely different story. >let me check around. iirc there are several gungho kits in Dragon Mag that >use existing S&P to make fighting mages. let me check what i dub "the pile". >if i am going to offer an example i'd prefer a justification in S&P overt a >simple scripted explanation like the glantri military mages. Well, I've seen stuff in Dragon like Teleport any Object, a level 3 spell, which duplicates a level 7 spell (Vanish) except better. I dont have much respect for Dragon either I'm afraid :) >in a 100 mage vs. 100 fighter encounter the levels of each respective class >group comes in to play. obviously a F1 vs. M1 scenario is going to have the >fighters prevail as they absorb the singular low level spell. as you increase >the class levels things begin to go the mages' way as more spells come into >play, especially those area affect ones. however, if those fighters can get >in close and use those better ACs, THAC0s and weapons profs against the >unarmored and melee weak mages. I think fighters remain superior to mages till level 7, where the mages get some defences against the fighters. At level 12 mages get contingency which shifts it even more in their favour. Hold person is also good stuff against fighters. But lower than level 5, and the mages have a major, major problem. Which is the levels we are talking about. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:26:22 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >i never said magic was a flaw. nor did i say that magic was not vital to the >alpher warmachine. from what i have seen the high magic would have been more >readily seen on the homefront in a logistical sense. on the battlefield magic >would have probably been lower level mages in a 1:4 or 1:5 ratio to fighter >based troops. much like those presented in the pwas. magic itself has much >more a use on the logistical front and does not have to be the core of an >assault spike. anyway...it's safer for the mage...who is afterall the nobles >of alphatia. one thing that needs to be remembered is that in Warmachine >Rules, individual actions are a nonfactor to the results of a battle. Well, even the stuff you were talking about earlier (mages covered by shieldwalls) is basically what I was on about in the original Thyatis versus Alphatia post. ie, the Alphatians use mages to do damage, and the fighters to cover them. However, I seriously doubt the Chaotic Army would be able to use such tactics, which require such discipline. They arent the Spartans. Thyatis maybe, but Alphatia is not :) >as for time being demonstrative towards qualities...i'd like to point out >that the war was declared in spring AC1005. actual fighting begins in fall of >AC1005 on the IoD and lasts until spring of AC1008....that's just under 3 >years of hard fighting with both empires being at roughly full strength and >on equal terms (remember this period saw the thyatian officers seeing >corruption and zzonga addicts; troops in bad shape). >in summer of AC1008 thyatis is still strong enough (zzonga addicts gone and >army fit) to repel an alphatian naval assault...but realizes its >screwed....die is cast. >by the winter of AC1008 alpher forces had reached ylari lands. by the summer >of AC1009 they were in thyatis and by fall AC1009 fought the aforementioned >battles of retebius and kantrium. soonafter (also fall of ac1009) Thyatis >ends its part in the war and alpher forces prepare to march on glantri. Well, Thyatis must have lost the cream of its troops due to ineptitude. Attrition again. The regulars were not used to their full effect, and by the time decent officers did come in, the regulars had been mauled. By the time the zzonga addiction had been quelled in canon material, I think Redstone Castle had fallen. Its a bit late by then for a Thy comeback! The damage had been done. >so it wasn't six years of fighting. more like it was a bit over four years. >the war wasn't a constant series of battles either. from what is given >battles are paced out over a period of time. given the general >medieval/renassaince nature of the armies involved much of this could be >attributed to the time needed to move into position, engage, and reposition >for subsequent battles. and it should also be remembered that the wrath >timeline is not set in stone....and is designed to allow an event to be moved >up or back depending on the actions of the pcs. Six, four, its a long time for constant warfare. >while DotE mentions that military matters are left to fighter types. it also >mentions that the fighters handle the military in a practical manner. >practicality and a need for defense (and possible offense) verifies a degree >of adequate funding. with the existance of the imperial sky navy with its >untold billions of gps worth of man-of-wars, a need for a heavy military >presence is established. i'd also like to point out that the mobilization >periods for both alph and thyatis were short before the opening shots of >wrath, denoting strong existing armies for both. also remember that before >wrath you had General Torenal....who was a devout fighter and planned his >fate with an epic fight with thyatis and thincol. imo he'd be a great >proponent for the alpher fighting men and given his relation with eriadna >he'd have a good deal of influence in funding. I've answered this one already... > < Alphatian tactics. They won, after all, didn't they?>> > >just pointing out that alpher fighter forces are not necessarily the low end >of the mystaran troop pool. since Wrath is set to which way it went and >Warmachine is not focal on individual action the question really goes to >description of a battle and war to the pcs. Well, I personally dont like the Warmachine after using a fair bit. I tend to just go really by DM call and shifting bodies of troops around on the floor :) > I seriously doubt that. Look at the WW2 OOB for, say, the UK in 1939, and > then again in 1945. Or for that matter 1914 and 1918. After 6 years of > bloody conflict you would expect them to learn something, after all. I'm > sure the Alphie armies as listed after reorganisation are significantly > better off than those pre Wrath.>> > >conversely, 2000+ years of existance on mystara would also be demonstrative >to further refinements of weapons and tactics. the ongoing dilution of >magically endowed offspring from 99% to 25% is a recognized factor. as the >shift from mage majority to mage minority developed the role of imperial >defense had to be assumed more and more by the fighter forces. Hmm. Looking at the real world, even with its technology leaps, tactics as of 1900 and 1000 were not incredibly different or refined. I think the Alphies are not happy about the shift of magically endowed offspring. I seriously doubt that is something that comes up, I can imagine it now... Air Wizard #1 - I beg to move that we increase the strength of the army, paying particular attention to training mundane troops better, as it seems that we mages are in the decline. For Greater Alphatia to survive, we must take immediate action. Air Wizard #2 - Get real! So, the mages are in decline? Just make sure the army never finds out, I - I mean, we - will do just fine. Its all about national character again anyway. > <>> > >that'll be interesting to see. how are you handling the bulk of the alpher >fleet being burned? what numbers are you giving the RAF? DotE does offer a >sample contingent of the RAF in thycity. i guess you could use that to base >them on, as a proportional representation of the RAF. Well, I didnt handle the burning in Aasla, I thought that a bit ridiculous personally. I had it happen, but the PCs werent about. As for the battle, I havnt really thought about it seriously, but I was guessing on about 50 Alphatian skyships, with say 10-20 men'o war in there, versus about 3000 air warriors from the RAF. I think this is vastly inflating the RAF from canonical sources, but I'll assume that after they suffer mass casualties they never really get brought back up to full strength. One of my PCs is working on making some Glantrian skyships, so there may be a couple of Glantrian skysloops in there too... Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:01:15 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: FW: [GPD] -- Updated! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brace yourself,=20 As Markus, the great scribe of Montola, has updated the scrolls and = tomes that compose the marvel we call GPD. Come and behold the secrets that up till now have been hidden away by = the conniving Glantrian nobles. See the spells that the mages are trying to hind from the rest of the = world, and learn the real, untold history of this land of wizards. The GPD project is one of the most active on this list. Us members = discuss the everchanging political map of Glantri, and the complicated = psyches of its charachters. May the light of Rad shine on you all- Ohad Shaham, contributor.=20 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Saturday 22. 1. 2000 So THERE. Right out of an exam, straight to the computing centre and updating! Added Tereis Haaskinz and her spells. Added Pieter Eeuwke Vandehaar and his spells and magical items. Fixed the link to the House Linden history. Added the GPD Submission Guidelines under the faq, here. Added some links, and joined the Mystara WebRing. Hopefully the webring will spontaneously begin working. Sometimes it = just happens, dunno. Probably the very next update will be Lady Wilhelmine Vlaardoen, and I recommend you to keep your eyes open for that one. - Markus ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:43:44 +0100 Reply-To: mystara@com.bi Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: FW: [GPD] -- Updated! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit could you give us the url of the GPD stuff? -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:16:15 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. In-Reply-To: ; from alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:17:05PM +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 10:17:05PM +0100, The Stalker wrote: > (actual discussions snipped) > > AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH! > > I *HATE* ALIGNMENTS! There's so much agreement coming from me here, it's just silly :) Just as a point, talking about black and white worlds, one of the easiest ways to make the world a *little* bit more grey is to remove alignments. It's difficult not to be black and white when the books have someone listed as evil. > ...and I *HATE* DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEM! Here, here, which is why it's always good to have discussions clearly labeled in the subject line, which I must admit this list is very good at doing compared to some others I'm on :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:31:37 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Shades of Grey - So what can we do? In-Reply-To: <200001212345.SAA00967@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from jruhlconob@sprynet.com on Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:43:14PM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Jan 21, 2000 at 05:43:14PM -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > > > Yah, I was just telling someone else today who has a similar attitude that > I wish I could emulate her and not be so hung up on some of this, but For > some reason such stuff as the PWA timeline and the > probably-soon-to-be-canon MAs are still important to me, still maintain the > grip of an atmosphere of "you can have any Mystara you want but this is the > real one" I used to have a very similar attitude, but I've been getting better :) It helped to play an epic campaign with very good players - playing in the world means you have to change it, and I now prefer my version to the 'real' one. Back when I wasn't playing Mystara (for a few years), I was much more interested in the 'real' Mystara. And the 'canon' Mystara is important in many ways, it does give a commonality that allows groups like this to exist. But a thought occurs, note that I agree with most of the content of James's ranting screeds, and I wonder what can be done about the 'Dupiusian' problem. OK, first is what I think the problem is: The Problem: Inconsistancy. Basically the latter products flat out contradict the earlier ones. And for those of us that like the earlier ones more, it's kind of annoying. The Solution: Do things the way you want in your own campaign! Weeeee, like we didn't know that already :) As noted above, the 'real' Mystara is important as well, and it's in that context that I look for a solution. So is there one? To put it simply, what can be done to make the world a better place without simply removing the offending material? Working on the Net Almanacs would be one way, and any comments on this from folk more in the know that me would be appreciated. So, any comments on this, note that I am assuming there is a problem with the way events are depicted in later almanacs, anyone that's fine with the way things are can disregard this of course ;) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit King STEFAN KARAMEIKOS, the Dark Ruler of Traladara WARNING: I don�t want a million of posts that says how a stupid idiot imperialistic Thyatian and Karameikos-hater I am- I am NOT. It�s just an alternative view on things that could appeal to persons that like devious and sinister explanations to what�s happening in Mystara. It can be seen as a joke, as an adventure idea etc etc. 1. Stefan III Karameikos, Duke of Machetos, was born in 948 in Castle Karameikos, now Castle Jowdynites, son of Cymon Karameikos and Adriana Pallacratis. Stefan III inherited the title very early in his life, in 959, when both his parents remained killed in the Alphatian Spike�s Assault at Thyatis. Luckily, Stefan had remained in Machetos with his tutor, a mage whose name was Assaran. Assaran was a Sindhi exile who had travelled in the Eastern lands for about ten years before settling down in Thyatis City in 947. Assaran met Cymon Karameikos at a party at the Imperial Palace. There, Assaran told him that he would have a child that one day would become a King. Cymon and Adriana had never had a child in their ten years of marriage. But a few weeks after that encounter, Adriana Karameikos was pregnant. 2. Cymon Karameikos called for Assaran very soon, and asked his new friend to become the educator of his son, whom he named Stefan. So when, at the age of 11, Stefan became orphan, it was Assaran who became his father and mother, educator, conselour. Assaran had left Sind, charged of black magic and worship of Entropic beings. Assaran was in fact also a devotee of Bozdogan, and this was not a great thing to be in Sind before the Hulean conquest. Karameikos grew up in the worship of the Hulean Immortal, and learned to view himself as the man destined to be King in the name of the Patron of Lie. 3. This destiny of power seemed to fullfil itself in 970, when finally Stefan, with the helping hand of Assaran, managed to obtain the Grand Duchy of Traladara from the Emperor Thincol Torion, not before he completeted the stripping of all wealth in the Duchy of Machetos. When Thincol grabbed the duchy to obtain the funds he needed for his political actions, he discovered that no wealth were there�and preferred to be blamed for the act, than mocked for the ingenious way the Duke of Machetos had deceived the great Emperor of Thyatis. 4. Stefan Karameikos asked some of his loyal friends of Machetos and Thyatis to join his expedition. Among these, Ludwig Von Hendriks,his cousin; Philip Vorloi, a quite honest merchant; Desmond Kelvin; Arthur Penhaligon. An interesting thing about Assaran that I forgot to tell you, is that Assaran was in fact a woman. When Stefan married Olivia Prothemian in 979, Assaran magically jarred herself in the young and fascinating body of the Arch Duchess, then had the woman imprisoned in a secret chamber of the Castle. It is unknown wheter the poor woman still dwells there in the guise of a mad Sindhi� 5. Stefan Karameikos knew that his cousin Von Hendriks was a despot and an awful person. After the reprisal of a big revolt in Specularum, put up by the Marilenev family, Stefan needed a way to appear in a better light among his subjects, so he begun to search for possible Traladarian candidates for some public roles. Von Hendrik�s ruling in Halag helped also to his reputation of a just ruler, by simple comparison. 6. In the following years, Stefan begun to increase the power of his newly founded nation, and at the same time worked to create trouble and havoc in other countries of the Known World. He contacted secretly Alphatian wizards and provided ingent quantities of zzonga fruit to the Thyatian market, helping the decadence of its army drugging and corrupting its officials. He employed pirates to attack the Shires and ships that sailed near Western Karameikos, and gave the blame of it to his cousin. He contacted the Master of Hule and promised him to support an eventual invasion of Darokin, attacking from the south. And, as Bozdogan told him a Great War would have been near, he carefully prepared himself to intervene to haste its beginning. 7. In 1004, when the first problems aroused between Glantri and Alphatia, he intervened hastily, sending a group of Glantrian and Alphatian traitors to their countries and act destructively pretending to be of the other one; he managed to burn to ashes the city of Aasla; had Torenal killed; when the Alfheim elves fled from their lost nation, he payed the humanoids of the mountains to kill the most possible number of them. Then, his two masterpieces, that allowed him to gain the approval and sponsorship to Immortality by Bozdogan: the first, the betrayal of Thyatis; the second, his betrayal of Hule, that at the same time justified his �selling out� of his homeland, and proved the ability of a man daring enough to lie to the Master of Lies himself! 8. Then the war went toward an end, and Stefan�s plans were continuing for the best. He encouraged refugees from all the nations in trouble to join Karameikos, especially Alfheimers and Alphatians, knowing that this would have surely led to great problems and conflicts, both between the Thyatians and Alphatians and between humans and elves. Some financial help to the Alfheim Avengers, especially in Darokin, created difficulties to the diplomatic process in Aengmor. Unfortunately he was forced by the Hin to do something with his cousin Von Hendriks�but it�s just a minor flaw in a great plan of destructiveness. Stefan is a master liar, a very patient fellow, a villain of immense strategic capacity. And the best is that he knows the people know him as a good, although maybe a little unwise, ruler. 9. Stefan is now preparing for the ultimate coup: allied with Master Terari, he will give new dominions to Alphatians, but not to Traladarans. He is intending to act like he is becoming very senile, a pawn in the hands of Terari, an Alphatiaphile with the paranoia of being killed by Thyatians because he didn�t help them in the War with Alphatia. �I abandoned my homeland�and now they will kill me�only Alphatians can help me��. Obviously this will begin with only slight hints of paranoia and develop into a nearly complete madness, when he will declare that the Cult of Halav is the official religion of the land, put to death Desmond Kelvin for conspiracy and declare the Church of Karameikos illegal in its borders! And, suddenly, Stefan will begin to tell he is Adriana Karameikos, whose mind has been put in his father�s body by a mysterious witch. A few days later, Adriana will tell to a mournful nation that her father Stefan, completely mad, died during the night, while he cried that �Thyatians are coming�. 10. Adriana Karameikos is obviously Stefan, whose mind and soul were transplanted using one of Assaran�s Sindhi Black Magic spells (see later). Naturally, unrest will spread very quickly in the country, because the Cult of Halav and the new Alphatian landowners pretend that Stefan�s folly begun AFTER they received their benefits�But Adriana/Stefan thinks it differently. She wants back all the land from the Alphatians, declares the Church of Karameikos the ONLY legal religion, thus enraging the Traladaran population. By this time, the new Patriarch of the Church of Karameikos is Alfric Oderbry (Gaz1). While Alphatians protest her actions through Master Terari, the latter is killed by a nationalist cleric of the Church of Karameikos. When unrest starts all over Karameikos, Adriana/Stefan will call for help from its allies of the Western Defense League� 11. At the end of the war, Karameikos will be a very different nation. Bozdogan can be quite satisfied of his servitor. He has managed to help Entropy for nearly 20 years in the Known World without exposing himself directly, and all only by the use of lies and deceit. Except for the burning of Aasla, obviously! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ASSARAN�s BLACK SINDHI SPELLS (HOPEFULLY) SOON TO FOLLOW!!! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 12:46:17 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Jeremy Morris wrote: > > > Again, most people don't wake up with the > intention "I'm going to actively > > try and be evil today." Not even the baddest of the > badguys do that, I'd > > say. Well, ok maybe a few very exceptional ones, > but I doubt Bargle & > > Ludwig's conversation consists of "what evil > should we commit today, > > Bargle?" "Well, we could kill people just to watch > them die, that would be > > pretty evil." "I don't know, that's a bit old hat. > We need to commit some > > new evil to maintain our reps as wicked fellows." > - They don't consciously > > intend to do evil, they *are* evil; their outlook > & behavior makes them > > evil, not their intentions. > > Hehe. Snidley Bargle twisting his mustache. I > COULD argue that both > Bargle and Ludwig are portrayed exactly this way, > but I won't because I > don't use them this way. Ludwig is evil because he > does believe that the > ends justify the means - there is no depth he can > sink to that is too low > for him. While, I wouldn't say that evil people necessarily wake up and go about their schemes like their only intention was to BE evil, I think most of them are aware that their actions are considered evil by most folks. For example, both Ludwig and Bargle would have no doubt that kidnapping, slavery, and murder are just plain wrong from both a moral and ethical standpoint. Now the question becomes: Why DO they kidnap, enslave, and murder people(directly or indirectly)? Well, I'd say that it's because they are selfish and greedy. Participating in such behavior is a shortcut for them to attain the wealth and power they desire. Of course, they may develop a sadistic sense of pleasure from said lifestyle along the way but that gets into a psychological discussion that's pretty OT. The point is, Ludwig and Bargle would be well aware that they are evil people (by action not default), and most likely don't care whether people know it or not. Of course, when interacting with Stefan or his higher echelon minions they would probably put on a pretty good act ("Why, dear cousin, these rumors of kidnapping are simply a misunderstanding..."). Obviously, both are somewhat pragmatic. But when kickin' it around Fort Doom, they are the big dawgs ("Yeah, I'm evil. What are YOU gonna do about it?"). Also to the point of character of similar alignments "sticking together" - I don't think Bargle and Ludwig would really be able to trust each other. Either one would sell the other one out if they stood something to gain (in the long run). Keep in mind, the two aforementioned nasties are just specific examples and certainly NOT very universal but I think it *begins* to address the whole evil issue. IMO, most people who are considered evil know why they are considered evil. Whether they agree that they should be considered evil is another issue. But many wouldn't be surprised that the average person thought they were pondscum. But hey, that's just me. I could be wrong. ;-p auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:54:05 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) In-Reply-To: <388A1636.97CA611F@tin.it>; from Scarole@TIN.IT on Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:42:30PM +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 09:42:30PM +0100, Caroletti wrote: > King STEFAN KARAMEIKOS, the Dark Ruler of Traladara Wow. That is so cool, it's scary because it actually *works* (I'd change a few minor things here and there for personal taste, but still...) See, without changing much history there's a whole slew of adventure oppertunities! Cool :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:13:52 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could either of you please send me a list of which topics are and aren't permissable, and I will promise to discuss only those. Thank you in advance. > > > ...and I *HATE* DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEM! > > Here, here, which is why it's always good to > have discussions clearly labeled in the subject > line, which I must admit this list is very good > at doing compared to some others I'm on :) > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:22:40 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. Comments: To: James Ruhland In-Reply-To: <200001222116.QAA10382@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from jruhlconob@sprynet.com on Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 03:13:52PM -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Jan 22, 2000 at 03:13:52PM -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > Could either of you please send me a list of which topics are and aren't > permissable, and I will promise to discuss only those. Thank you in > advance. They're in the FAQ. Sorry I wasn't being clear, there's a few topics on this list that I don't want to read so I just delete them, no one's forcing me to read them, and no one's forcing anyone else not to have the discussion. I was just commenting that by having a relevant subject line it's easy to decide what to delete without reading through the whole lot. And this group is very good at that. So everyone is happy :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:30:43 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh, I didn't have any idea that alignments were such a problem. What's not typically known is that the original printing of the OD&D rules system actually had five alignments: Good, Evil, Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. They removed the first two when they went to the third run of box sets, though, so that's where we got left off. It seems to me that if you hate debate on the subject, you could simply use these five. Good means you do the right thing. Evil means you think only of yourself. Lawful means you try and obey 'rules'. Chaotic means you think rules are for suckers. Neutral means you don't give a crap about anything. Personally, I just don't worry about problems in relation to alignment. In my game last night my player's NPC cleric was torn apart (literally) by a gang of Bhuts. When they made light of the matter, I reminded them that they're the good guys, the heroes, and they tried to act more solemn on the matter. A harder-nosed GM may have punished them for being jerks, but I don't do that. The game's supposed to be fun, after all, and they had only met the guy. If it was a longtime companion or a dedicated henchman, then I'd not be so nice. They're also going to return a ring of wishes to it's owner's family in Robrenn, despite the item's obvious value. So they're doing okay. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:52:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: Ideas for Karameikan Conflict Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:31:23 Mr. Darknerd wrote: >If everything stays the same mundane boring world, then what's point to existing as a PC. So here's some ideas for possible conflict. > Agreed. Thanks for the adventuring ideas mr. , er, 'Nerd' (?), one can *never* have too many ideas for adventures. I especially liked the first (Traladaran rebellion) and the third (Church of Karameikos) although I'll probably make changes to the latter if I use it. But still very inspiring none-the-less. Keep 'em coming if you got 'em ;) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:06:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: It's coming... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Calamity Star will arrive... SOON! Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:18:44 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: National Strengths, Cont. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 01/22/2000 12:33:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, Alex295@AOL.COM writes: << while i am on it....equipment, weapons, and armors are pretty evenly represented throughout mystara. for national and regional character specialize the basic weapon to appear specific to an area. for example, thy and alph platemail probably differs in design. apparance is different but the stats are the same. equipment deviations can be seen in the rw and those created in different nations can be told apart by their style and configuration. >> I guess that very style element of also what I was after. What strikes people accross Brun when stories are told, that kind of thing. This is also in conection with the Merc. thread on the MMB. Sure everyone can have polearms, and there are no special stats, but maybe soldiers quake at the mention of Hulean Halberdiers, etc. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:39:35 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > WARNING: I don�t want a million of posts that says how a stupid idiot > imperialistic Thyatian and Karameikos-hater I am- . > Instead, send all such mails to: Porphyrogenitus cc: Official Karameikos Hater's Club augustium@geocities.com Thanks in advance 8-)~ Anyhow, all joking asside, it was a very interesting post, Caroletti. Very creative 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:59:06 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes!!! This is perfect, Giulio! I've been beating my head against the wall for quite some time about how to get my characters up to Norwold when they are high-level(they started out in Karameikos) and now you've given me the perfect solution! I thought it would be lame to have them meet with Stefan at around 15th level or so and be told, "Gee, guys, I know you're like these awesome butt-kicking heroes and all. But you know this is a pretty small country so I can't really make you guys the high-level nobles you deserve to be. On the bright side, my buddy Ericall from the Heads-of-State-Convention is looking for a bunch of Companion level PC's, though. I could write you a nice letter of reccomendation." Now, I can have 'em find out down the road that their good-hearted leader isn't really what he appears to be. Of course, by that point, they will have saved his life on at least one occassion and surely helped forward many of his schemes. Then I can make it so they can't really defeat him outright and are kicked out of the country as traitors. Next thing they know, they find themselves in Norwold trying to rebuild their reputations and careers so that they might be able to one day go back to Karameikos to finish off Stefan and liberate their people... Oh yes. This will be perfect. Plots within subplots. My dear Captain Scaevola, you do justice to the Thyatian tradition of scheming. ;-p Yes, Giulio, your whole concept is incredibly creative and very well thought out. Great stuff, indeed!! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:00:21 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeremy Morris Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) In-Reply-To: <388A1636.97CA611F@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 22 Jan 2000, Caroletti wrote: > King STEFAN KARAMEIKOS, the Dark Ruler of Traladara That was amusing ;) I don't think it's what I'll use for my campaign, but it is amusing. (I don't think I'll let Pyotr see it, though. He might not take it as a joke, and he gets a little defensive of the Princess at times...) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 01:46:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've come to wonder about something. It seems that Mystara is densely populated by all sorts of adventurers and other crafty folk, but what about Mystara's past? Some time ago, I think that a player IMC read a priest spell description that required a bone from a high-leveled priest of the cleric's order. The player was playing a Cleric of Ixion, so he asked me what famous priests of Ixion he had heard of. A reasonable question that took me completely by surprise - it seems that we don't have a well defined cast of NPCs from Mystara's past, except for those of truly history-changing personalities like several Alphatian and Thyatian Emperors, Kings of Darokin, later Immortals (like Halav et al.), and people like Alexander Glantri. I took it upon myself to make a few such characters, but we can never have enough. I also like such characters because the paladin who wants to get a Holy Avenger sword should go out and look for 'the legendary sword, Grummer, which was wielded by Aurelius the Pure, but lost long ago' rather than saving up the cash and buying it in the next magic shop. Finding such weapons by random is next to impossible. So I want people to come up with historical NPCs for Mystara, but there are two criteria: 1) These people must all be DEAD! 2) Please no super-duper my-all-mighty end-all characters of ultimate power or skill (whatever the class). It's fine with heroic people (that's encouraged), but I doubt anyone here would appreciate Elminster's twin... Let me go first with several of my own NPCs - it's a long list, so sorry. Note that they are *ALL* dead (and note that there are only two Alphatians, and one of them isn't even a mage :) ). [One warning though, several of the NPCs make references to powerful swords because I made a group of swords IMC. Naturally you can use the NPCs as you wish, but if I ever put those swords on this list, then these are the people their story will refer to.] ----------------------------------------------- Allaindar, Elven Hero of Alfheim (dead). Allaindar was an experienced elven fighter-mage around 550 AC when the human wizard Illodious led an army of humanoid monsters against Alfheim. The invaders smashed upon the elven defenses, and elven wizards, including Allaindar, used their spells against the monsters. Almost immediately Illodious appeared himself to aid his monster hordes with his powerful magic. A small group of elven wizards, among them Allaindar, then began a magical duel with Illodious, though the human was far more powerful. Mighty spells destroyed the land around the site, but though the elves could not defeat Illodious through magic, Allaindar succeeded in using his own magic to get close enough to physically attack Illodious, and some believe that he actually managed to slay Illodious with his sword though he perished himself. The land around the site of the magical battle was so utterly ruined that the elves could never succeed in growing any vegetation there, and the area was therefore named the "Wizard's Glen", the site at which Alfheim Town was later built. Oliver Attleson, Darokinian Paladin (dead). Oliver Attleson lived around 500 AC in the city of Corunglain in northern Darokin right on the border to the Broken Lands, which naturally means that he had many opportunities to protect the city from invading humanoids. People of Darokin have claimed that he was successful at this partially because he wielded a powerful magical sword. Eventually, many Darokinian troops went south to fight in the brief Elfwar against Alfheim. Since Oliver Attleson knew the elves not to be evil, he refused to fight against them and remained in Corunglain, which sealed his fate as the reduced troops in the city meant that the the orcs finally succeeded in conquering Corunglain, and though the city was reclaimed by Darokin a few years later, Oliver is believed to have been killed during the failed defense of the city. Aurelius the Pure, Knight of Thyatis (dead). Aurelius was a paladin of Maat from Thyatis. There are many stories of his heroic and selfless deeds. For example, he has defeated red dragon attacks against Kerendas, and defended villages in the Duchy of Machetos from giants. He is also said to have traveled with various other adventurers in underground locations such as the caverns under the Altan Tepes mountains. Some sages claim to have found evidence that he collaborated with other adventurers (including the dwarf Oic, the human fighter Tiberius Tullus, a cleric of of Diulanna called Messalina, and a mysterious, unnamed wizard) in a successful attempt to repel an undead attack in the catacombs under Thyatis City. The group is usually referred to as The Companions of the Pure. Aurelius' magical sword "Grummer" is believed to have been a holy avenger sword. Belden Battlebur, Halfling Hero (dead). Belden was one of the halfling heroes who helped his people rebel against the orcs that had conqured what would later be known as the Five Shires. Though Belden was killed during the early parts of the revolt, his bravery inspired many halflings to stand up to their orcish lords and it thus an important part of halfling history. Julius Drusarius, Thyatian High Priest of Ixion (dead). Drusarius was a typical cleric of Ixion, who served his Immortal in Thyatis City for most of his life. He is a prime example of priests who serve their Immortals and rise to great experience and power without resorting to much adventuring. It is possible that Drusarius did do some adventuring, as he certainly traveled Thyatis and possibly other lands as well, though some say that this was only in order to acquire materials needed for his spells or research. Drusarius is a revered priest of Ixion in Thyatis and is buried in Ixion's temple in Thyatis City. Duric Orcsbane, son of Morur, Dwarven Hero of Rockhome (dead). Duric was one of the great dwarven heroes when the dwarves defeated the orcs in the Battle of Sardal Pass in 492 BC and founded their nation of Rockhome. It is said that during that battle, Duric killed many orcs with his magical sword, which was called "Orcslayer" (it has been considered strange by many scholars that Duric wielded a sword, so there has been much speculation about this sword). Duric is a famous and important figure of Rockhome's history, and it is probably not a good idea to insult his name in front of dwarves unless one is prepared for a fight. Endracomt of Aasla, Alphatian Wizard (dead). Endracomt is one the heroic wizards of Alphatia's past. Some stories claim that he has worked various adventurers on many occasions, including the Company of the Golden Dragon. He is famous for saving people of Starpoint from a flight of dragons with his magic and Staff of the Magi, and there are many other stories of his heroic and selfless deeds. Strangely, some stories suggest that he wielded a rapier during some point of his career. The sword therefore became known as Amicus Magi ("mage's friend"). Sadly, Endracomt disappeared some years ago, when he traveled into the foul Alphatian nation called Blackheart to check on rumors of a powerful vampire archmage in the nation. Philip Faulconbridge, Darokinian High Priest of Ixion (dead). Priests of many Immortals abound in Darokin's history, and Faulconbridge is the most famous cleric of Ixion to date. He fought fiercely against the Shadow Elves when they tried to invade Alfheim, and the accounts of his battles against hordes of goblinoids and various undead are legendary. Faulconbridge's early life as a cleric was spent in relative peace, but once he became experienced enough to found his own church, he instead founded a group of adventurers called The Scale of Ixion with himself as leader and senior member. The Scale of Ixion traveled most of Darokin and righted wrongs where they could. Eventually, Faulconbridge disappeared during an orcish attack of Darokin's northern borders, and not even his own adventurers knew what became of him. Hrafn, son of Cnute, Warrior of Ostland (dead). Hrafn was the youngest son of King Cnute of Ostland, and since he would probably never inherit the throne, he joined his older brother Sven's campaign to settle the later Vestland and Soderfjord. There he helped fight and drive off the hordes of humanoids who already lived there. Hrafn was known as a silent and lonely man, which caused his sword to be known as "Hrafn's Tongue", as he was known for letting his sword speak rather than his tongue. Gaius Keldonion the Elder, Thyatian Knight (dead). Keldonion was a military man during most of his life, and served for a long time in the Retebius Air Fleet, during which time he fought griffons and other flying monsters, maybe even a dragon or two. He also had the opportunity to combat the Alphatians on a few occasions. Though he was hardly an adventurer, he did have a few encounters with more common monsters, when he worked with the military in Kerendas. It has been suggested that a powerful magical sword may have fallen into his hands during one of these encounters, and that he later passed the sword onto his son, Gaius Keldonion the Younger, even though his son became the sort of free-spirited adventurer that he hated. Sadly, Keldonion the Younger was killed during a later adventure, and this broke the old man's heart, and he died within six months of hearing of the death of his son. Gaius Keldonion the Younger, Thyatian Warrior (dead). The son of Gaius Keldonion the Elder was much more of an adventurer than his father, which was one of the major disappointments of his father's life. During his years of shearing, the young Keldonion is believed to have been an early member, perhaps even founding member, of the adventuring group called the Lions of Kerendas. After his shearing years he returned to his father who demanded that he joined the Retebius Air Fleet, which he did. But after a few years, he had had enough of the boring military service and resigned as an active member to be only a reserve member of the fleet in the case of war. This angered his father, but young Keldonion followed his heart and adventured with the Lions of Kerendas for many years. Eventually, his father had to retire due to age, and when the Alphatians attacked Thyatis in 959 AC, young Keldonion rejoined the Retebius Air Fleet to fight for his homeland. At this time, his father decided that he would prefer to pass his magical sword on to his son during the war rather than not having it used at all, even though he strongly disagreed with the life-style of his son and never forgave him. After the war, young Keldonion kept the sword, but was eventually killed during an adventure. Kogatai the Fierce, Ethengarian Raider (dead). Though few warriors other than Khans ever become famous, Kogatai is one of the exceptions, for he raided the surrounding lands to a degree that made him infamous. However, there are also stories of how he has fought and killed monsters, and thereby indirectly saved villages or towns of foreign lands through his actions. Sir Magnus, Thyatian Knight (dead). Sir Magnus is a famous Thyatian knight from recent history. He is believed to have worked with the group of adventurers called the Lions of Kerendas on some occasions, but is mostly known as a lonely knight who trarveled Thyatis and fought evil where he met it. He was a rather large man, known for always wearing full plate armor and wielding a huge magical Silver Sword. The sword was probably a two-handed sword, though it is quite likely that it was not made of silver, but rather some metal that looked a lot like silver. Sir Magnus traveled Thyatis for decades and fought dragons, giants, and orc invasions where he could until 989 AC, at which point he suddenly disappeared. It seems obvious that his adventuring against evil eventually caused him to meet a monster more powerful than he was himself, and which he fell victim to. "Sneaky", Thief of Thyatis (dead). "Sneaky" was the name given to a famous thief from Thyatis City. He stole many valuable objects during his career, though it seems clear that he stole mostly for the challenge of the theft and never for the potential profit. The true identity of "Sneaky" was never revealed, though he had to fight for his freedom on a few occasions, which he did very well with a powerful short sword. Some sages have also speculated that "Sneaky" was actually a mortal identity of Korotiku, the Immortal of trickery also called the Trickster or the Spider. Valera the Righteous, Thyatian Priestess of Ixion (dead). Valera was a courageous cleric from Thyatis, who adventured for many years with the famous group of adventurers known as the Lions of Kerendas. She was one of the founding members, and became a very experienced adventurer over the years as the group faced many challenges and group members came and went. Eventually, Valera had to sacrifice herself to fulfil her mission to destroy the undead and save her friends; in a huge series of caverns far under the earth, she was badly hurt when she and her allies fought a group of vampires and other undead, and Valera stayed behind and sacrificed herself so that her friends could escape alive. The Lions of Kerendas still exist, though few believe that it still consists of any of the original members. Zacralum of Draco, Alphatian Warrior (dead). Zacralum of Draco was a warrior in the Alphatian army during his youth, and eventually became an officer. He participated in the Alphatian attack on Thyatis City in 959 AC, and was one those Alphatians who escaped alive, when the Alphatians were driven from the city by Thincol the Brave, the later Emperor of Thyatis, and his legion of gladiators and soldiers. Back in Alphatia, Zacralum decided to leave the Alphatian army, and instead became an adventurer. He was one of the founding members of the adventuring group later known as the Company of the Golden Dragon. The group was very successful in its early days, defeating many monsters and claiming many magical treasures. Eventually, Zacralum's dangerous life as an adventurer caught up with him, and he is said to have been annihilated by a beholder in deep caves under the Kerothar Mountains in the Alphatian nation of Stoutfellow. ----------------------------------------------- (Gee, I hope I'm not just wasting everybody's time with this). - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:07:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Mr. Darknerd" Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Ideas for Karameikan Conflict Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just try not to use all at once, because the players will be confused. I just keep the resentment and religion there in the game, but it is currently under control. Any moment it can go out of control (DM's discretion). What I like to do is put players at the apex. The players can perhaps stop the mess, but if they don't the whole society begins to transform. The player's indirectly cause a sequence of events or prevent these events from happening. Though, some players might not be ready for the spotlight to be upon them. Just mix in good role-playing, but don't go overbored on one style, or players get tired. One idea that I have in the background, but I might not use the idea, becuase one player is not interested. INFILTRATION OF DESERT NOMAD SPIES As the Master of Hule is busy with conquering Sind and building his massive armies, his spies are sent into Eastern Burn to gather allies to aid his cause, start religions, and start coups and inner strife. In paticular, he has organized allied with another evil Immortal to conquer Karameikos and eventually cause the downfall of Alphatia. There are several modules that fit this area. I use T1-4 Temple of Elemental Evil and place it in The Lost Valley of Hutaaka (good B10 tie in). I replace the cathedral structure with a more egyptian-greco style temple, but the dungeons remain the same for the most part. I rename Hommlet to Verge. This seems to work out find. I make the "Old Faith" equal to a druidic cult, and change the Church of St. Cuthbert to the Church of Karameikos. I also use Nulb as is, but I place it in western karameikos. This is a town for smugglers. The Iron Ring goes through this town often. Other good module tie-ins are U1-U3 which involves a huanted house and smugglers. The smugglers can be replace with official Iron Ring members. Perhaps the Iron Ring could be in league with the Desert Nomads. There are two evil gods used in the module. One god is trapped in the Temple, while the other is free to roam around. I have to replace these gods with Mystaran Immortals naturally. Bogodan (spelling?) is the replacement for the main Immortal there, and the trapped Immortal could be a god of one's choosing. A natural selection could be the god from the Silver Princess module. I use some good maps of giant cities of MiddleEarth to describe Haven to the players. I think it works. I also use Haven as a city existing interdimensionally between the dreaming world of the faerie (good use of PC1 here) and that of Mystara. Personally, I don't like Bogzdon being related to Loki, so I replace him with Set. This is good for historical Nithian relations to Traldara. For the imprisioned elemental type Immortal, I use Tiamat. Those those sticking to pure canon can use the above suggestion and leave Bogzodan as is. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 17:24:34 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hey, just thought I'd mention this to anyone who might be interested. There has been discussion on the Ravenloft message board about a Ravenloft domain known as Rokushima Taiyoo. Basically, someone was asking whether the Kargatane was planning on describing this domain, and John Mangrum of the Kargatane said yes, someday, but not anytime soon. I noticed this, and posted about possibly making it another Mystara Ravenloft domain populated by evil Rakasta. I haven't really heard anything about it since (I'm hoping to hear some feedback from the Kargatane), but if they think it sounds cool, I was wondering if anyone would like to help me with the creation of such a place. Again, it may be a little premature, but I just thought I'd mention it and see if there were any interested parties... ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:05:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I wonder what kinds of adventures folks have run for Atruaghin chars in their home land? Intertribal rivalries are obvious, but there doesn't seem much material to work with from my limited imagination perspective. The lack of adventures in the GAZ itself also proves limiting, as those samples usually give me better ideas for the feel of the land and what would work there. So, what all have you done with this land? - Mischa America imprisons five times as many people per capita as Canada and seven times as many as most European countries, yet we have similar crime rates. From:Sam Smith's Great American Political Repair Manual:How to Rebuild Our Country so that the Politics Aren't Broken and the Politicians Aren't Fixed ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:30:13 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: It's coming... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i don't know about you guys but this elf is worried . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:57:24 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-22 4:31:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, ironwolf@EWA.NET writes: << What's not typically known is that the original printing of the OD&D rules system actually had five alignments: Good, Evil, Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. They removed the first two when they went to the third run of box sets, though, so that's where we got left off. >> No official set of D&D rules ever had those five alignments. The original D&D had only three alignments -- Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. In a Sorcerer's Scroll column in Dragon magazine Gygax added the good/evil scale to create a system of five alignments: LG, CG, LE, CE, and N. That scale was carried forward into the first edition of the Basic D&D (not "OD&D") set. Later editions of Basic/Expert/etc. D&D reverted to the three alignment system, while 1st edition AD&D went to the familiar nine alignment system some time between the printing of the Monster Manual and the printing of the PHB. Also, I think we need to come up with a different term for the rule set that most Mystara material is written for. It is NOT "original D&D" but a set of rules that was developed mostly in parallel and in some cases subsequent to 1st edition AD&D -- and it is debatable which one really strayed further from the original. I am not meaning to put the Basic/Expert/etc. rules down -- far from it, I think they were in most ways superior to either edition of AD&D -- but I think it might be a good idea to try and describe the different rule sets accurately, before we have a whole generation of gamers convinced that the rules in those colorful boxed sets really were the original D&D rules. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:57:22 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 2000-01-22 3:40:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 Scarole@TIN.IT writes: << WARNING: I don=E2=80=99t want a million of posts that says how a stupid i= diot imperialistic Thyatian and Karameikos-hater I am- I am NOT. It=E2=80=99s ju= st an alternative view on things that could appeal to persons that like devious and sinister explanations to what=E2=80=99s happening in Mystara. I= t can be seen as a joke, as an adventure idea etc etc. >> Well,=20 I don't have any particular beef against the "canonical" Stefan -- I am quite willing to accept him as being well meaning, incompetent, and generall= y lucky -- but I love the twist you put on him! Great work! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:57:25 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: National Strengths, Cont. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-22 5:19:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: << I guess that very style element of also what I was after. What strikes people accross Brun when stories are told, that kind of thing. This is also in conection with the Merc. thread on the MMB. Sure everyone can have polearms, and there are no special stats, but maybe soldiers quake at the mention of Hulean Halberdiers, etc. >> No, what they quake at is the thought that they have been accused of a crime and that their case will be heard by a Hulean judge. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:29:22 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: National Strengths: Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> > I guess that very style element of also what I was after. What strikes > people accross Brun when stories are told, that kind of thing. This is also > in conection with the Merc. thread on the MMB. Sure everyone can have > polearms, and there are no special stats, but maybe soldiers quake at the > mention of Hulean Halberdiers, etc. > Well, here's a bit of my take, re. mainly Thyatis: Hattias is known for its footmen, but what type? I'd imagine that the coastal areas, and the region around Hattias City, are known for heavy footmen - spear-and-polearm boys who stoically wear heavy armor. The "mules" of the infantry. The folk Century Hills raise sons who make great skirmishers and bowmen (slingers and javalineers if those suit your fancy); that's sheepherd country, and sheepherds have traditionally been good light foot. Kerendas is known for its cavalry, but again what type? I'd imagine that the areas around Kerendas City through Bridleton are the aristocrat-cavalry; those folk can afford the biggest and best steeds, and the best armor. These mounts can, IMO, move as fast as medium cavalry but have the HD and burden-bearing capacity of Heavy Cavalry (conversely, the best steeds of Ylaruam move like the wind and have wonderful endurance. Stats comparing & contrasting Kerendan horses with Ylari horses some other day, perhaps). The areas northwards, further away from the major settlements (and thus less prestigeous lands) are where more or less light cavalry comes from. The Heavy Cavalry uses chain or chain-lammelar barding, with the cavalryman armored likewise. A good lance is used (Kontos), along with a sabre or longsword (Spathia), and the best troops are also good with a bow (composite), firing from horseback. The light cavalry specialize in skirmish tactics, using a lighter lance, a sabre, and a composite bow. Most are specialized in the latter, as well as skilled in firing from horseback. They are expert at flanking tactics. Duchy of Thyatis itself: a mixture - this is a "jack of all trades, master of none" land. It is, per the DotE description, a center of trade and warfare, having been so for a thousand years and possibly will be for a thousand more. Both of the troop types found in Kerendas and Hattias exist here. It is also known for its Imperial Guard formations (and the Order of the Golden Eagle - more on them another time perhaps). Likewise can be found here stout northmen wielding large battle axes but also using shields - men strong enough and skilled enough to employ the great axe with one hand, in effect. These are mercenaries, however - men from Ostland, Vestland, Soderfjord, Heldann, and even Norwold. But only the pick of the litter are hired by the Emperor, paid good money (IRL Harald Haardrade, of Stanford Bridge fame, was a guardsman in Constantinople before his misadventure in England). Thyatian footmen also use bows (Long if you aren't picky about what nations employ them, short or composite if you are). This area, and Lucinius to the east, is also known for its crossbowmen - marines trained in using crossbows (as well as ship-borne artillery) to great effect. Both heavy and light crossbows are used, as are such gagets as repeating ballistae (I have an image of one somewhere I can sort out if anyone is interested). As a result, if there is a place on Mystara outside of "MOrient" (btw, anyone still working on that MOrient project?) that has developed a repeating crossbow, it is here. Other areas of Thyatis: Biazzan is known for its skirmishers and/or slingers. Tel Akbir is known for its light cavalry and spearmen. Machetos & Vyalia for its longbowmen. Terentias is known for dudes with cutlasses and eypatches (or hook hands, if you go in for that). Retebius is well known for a certain type of warrior so no need to elaborate. Ochalea: a pacific place, but when they do fight they use heavy foot primarily, well ordered, well drilled, and very well coordinated, acting almost as if they were one being with many bodies. Pearl Islands: skirmishers. They are alike with the Ochaleans but different - alike in the sense that they are very self-disciplined, but different in the sense that they do not fight in order. They tend to excell at a given weapon (always specialized in something), the weapons tend to vary based upon the choice of the warrior - spears are very common, but always well made (non-magical +1 bonus to damage), as are bows. Pearl Islanders tend to make good "complimentary" troops, fighting best in conjunction with Hattian or Ochalean footmen. The P-Islanders form the skirmishers and fast-moving flankers while the others form the basis of the battle line. Hinterlanders: Though different in culture and elan, the Hinterlanders have much in common with the Pearl Islanders. Blowguns are common with the folk of the jungles, as are slings and javalins, but also swords (some use particularly nasty two-handed swords) and throwing axes (mostly coastal dudes). Isle of Dawn: virtually any weapon type is common here. The Isle of Dawn is so intermixed with troops from the mainland, and having been in long contact with the Alphatians, that they cannot truely be said to specialize in or be particularly renowned for any one weapon. But the troops here, including the reservists, are exceptionally tough, "rough and ready" as it were - hardened by many campaigns, from skirmishes and raids to major wars. Though the (Thyatian) Alphatians of the Isle of Dawn have a carefree attitude towards life, they have also benifited from Thyatian discipline and efficiency - the Isle of Dawners (on both sides of the border, I'd say), are the "minute men" of Mystara - ready at a moment's notice when the trumpet sounds. Anyhow, that's my take as far as the various components of Thyatis' national strengths are concerned. In practice Thyatis tends to gather recruits from all over the Empire and form them into combined-arms units (at least with respect to the Imperial forces) - regional auxillaries tend to be composed of the troop type that area is best known for (which, btw, is another part of the Thyatian army I have to get around to detailing at some point, once I've finally posted the Palatine Guard forces). This mixture helps make the Thyatian military what it is - specialists from all over, blended in with the "jacks of all trades" of Thyatis proper, supported by a variety of regional auxilliary units and special task forces. If Thyatis as a whole is known for one thing, it is known for balance (just like Jaws always stresses). It is known for military efficiency. For "force multiplication" and combined arms. It is also known for a scholastic approach to warfare - the study of strategy, tactics, operations, and logistics. Thyatis has a number of "military academies" each with its own discipline, and a "War College" in the Zendrolium/Thyatis City. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:37:36 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: National Strengths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Knott wrote: > Some history, perhaps? The Thyatian Empire has been > around for a thousand > years, and its people go back even further. The > Vyalia elves will probably > warm > up to Karameikos once it has been around for another > century or two, if that > nation still exists then. Keep in mind that, according to Gaz1, the Traldar/Traladaran people have been interacting with the elves of that region for at least 1000 years prior to the founding of the Thyatian Empire. Now that may be just the Callarii (it doesn't really specify), but I would think the Traldar would have at least made contact with the Vyalia somewhere in that time. Personally, I think the only reason that the Vyalia are shown as a part of the actual nation in Thyatis(DotE) but aloof and mysterious in Karameikos(Gaz1) is that Aaron Allston hadn't really developed them early on. By the time DotE came out, he had an opportunity to give them more detail. Of course, that's just completely unconfirmed speculation... Now for an after-the-fact explanation: the Traldar probably left the Vyalia alone for most the most part. They really didn't have much reason to interact with the eastern elves. There were several human communities in the vicinity of the Callarii, so the interaction would be a natural. The Thyatians on the other hand had more of an "expansionistic" philosophy, so they would obviously put the Vyalia in a position to either get along our dig-in for the long haul. Just a way of explaining a situation that occurred, IMO, by accident... auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:01:33 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mischa E Gelman wrote: > > I wonder what kinds of adventures folks have run for Atruaghin chars in > their home land? Intertribal rivalries are obvious, but there doesn't > seem much material to work with from my limited imagination perspective. > The lack of adventures in the GAZ itself also proves limiting, as those > samples usually give me better ideas for the feel of the land and what > would work there. So, what all have you done with this land? Ugh... not much, myself. I don't know about anyone else from the U.S., but myself I would not feel comfortable playing a character from the Atruaghin clans because I would fear maligning Native Americans with cheesy cliche behavior. I know very few people who wouldn't feel self-concious, and those that could get over it would probably be viewed with disdain by his fellow players. If I was a munchkin hack-n-slasher who thought roleplaying was something psychologists did, I'd probably avoid them due to their distain for metal weapons, low 'kill' factor and all that. And anyone who played one anyway would also be viewed likely as maligning Native Americans, portraying them as savages. Sheesh, just talking about it makes me feel guilty. IronWolf "It's Specularum, damn it!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:13:49 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Alignment Dialogue. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hm.. you are correct on the alignment charts. My apologies for the errors. As for the OD&D references, is it really necessary to start debating minute differences in editions? IronWolf David Knott wrote: > > In a message dated 2000-01-22 4:31:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ironwolf@EWA.NET writes: > > << What's not typically known is that the original printing of the OD&D rules > system actually had five alignments: Good, Evil, Lawful, Neutral, and > Chaotic. > They removed the first two when they went to the third run of box sets, > though, > so that's where we got left off. >> > > No official set of D&D rules ever had those five alignments. > > The original D&D had only three alignments -- Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic. > In a Sorcerer's Scroll column in Dragon magazine Gygax added the good/evil > scale to create a system of five alignments: LG, CG, LE, CE, and N. That > scale was carried forward into the first edition of the Basic D&D (not "OD&D") > set. Later editions of Basic/Expert/etc. D&D reverted to the three alignment > system, while 1st edition AD&D went to the familiar nine alignment system > some time between the printing of the Monster Manual and the printing of the > PHB. > > Also, I think we need to come up with a different term for the rule set that > most Mystara material is written for. It is NOT "original D&D" but a set of > rules that was developed mostly in parallel and in some cases subsequent > to 1st edition AD&D -- and it is debatable which one really strayed further > from the original. I am not meaning to put the Basic/Expert/etc. rules down > -- far from it, I think they were in most ways superior to either edition of > AD&D > -- but I think it might be a good idea to try and describe the different rule > sets > accurately, before we have a whole generation of gamers convinced that the > rules in those colorful boxed sets really were the original D&D rules. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 02:20:13 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ron Rogers Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: IronWolf 's message of Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:01:33 -0800 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Actually Gaz 14 is respectful of the cultures involved and the book tries to make you see them as more than "savages" I think many adventures in the region would be more "man vs environment" types than anything else. You know gathering enough food for winter, driving off the wyverns preying on the buffalo, gathering the herbs that assist the shaman deliver babies. That sort of thing. This setting seems to be more oriented towards role playing rather than hack and slash "roll-playing". No Hackmaster +12 swords here. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) Knight of the Square Table http://members.tripod.com/CronoCloud/index.html Member of the Knights Knoble http://knightsknoble.cjb.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 04:27:39 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron Rogers wrote: > > Actually Gaz 14 is respectful of the cultures involved and the book > tries to make you see them as more than "savages" Oh, total agreement. I wasn't criticizing the Gazateer, though, and I apologize if I gave that impression. > I think many adventures in the region would be more "man vs environment" > types than anything else. You know gathering enough food for winter, > driving off the wyverns preying on the buffalo, gathering the herbs that > assist the shaman deliver babies. That sort of thing. This setting > seems to be more oriented towards role playing rather than hack and > slash "roll-playing". No Hackmaster +12 swords here. Yep, agreed as well. That sort of reminds me of the GURPS Fantasy 2 setting, which was a tribal people in a nasty land where magic was malignant and gods insane, and that the simple things of life and pure survival were heroic. Plus, the monsters were hideously nasty and powerful, no pushovers at all, and PC's had to use their wits, not muscles, to survive encounters. This may be a good take with Atruaghin adventures, actually. The takeover of the plateau by the Alphatian mages detailed in the PWA1011 was sort of disappointing, since it portrayed the clans in a dim light. Modern hunter-gatherer cultures are not stupid, they know what's outside their world, they just live as they always have as best they can. I don't think the clans would have bought the claims of the charlatan wizards so easily as that. Plus, if it was that easy, wouldn't foreign mages have destroyed the clans long ago? Clearly, there must be other factors that prevent this from happening. Beyond the obvious, such as the watchful nature of Atruaghin the immortal and his priests, perhaps magic itself doesn't quite behave as it does elsewhere. An idea may be that magic on the plateau behaves in a similar manner as in the Hollow World. Perhaps only 'natural' magics are available, those that derive from the land. There's a lot of room for interpretation and adjustment there to make the Clans truly unique both in roleplay AND in the rules. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 13:36:53 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm. I'm going to thank all people who congratulated my work. The good thing is that that's how things are going to go in my own campaign...even if Karameikos in the end will probably not destroy his own country. So I hope not forgetting anyone: > Thanks to: Damon David Gordon James Jeremy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:27:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >(Gee, I hope I'm not just wasting everybody's time with this). > - The Stalker of Alphatia God no! This is one of the most productive stuff Ive seen on the list (and Ive been here for a few years). Thank you for a fine job. Thes heroes may find there way to my (upcoming) camoaign. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ Oh, and the GPD at- http://sato.helsinki.fi/~montola.valt/mystara/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 07:41:52 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:57:24 EST David Knott writes: > -- but I think it might be a good idea to try and describe the > different rule > sets > accurately, before we have a whole generation of gamers convinced > that the > rules in those colorful boxed sets really were the original D&D > rules. The way that I had always heard the rule sets described was that Original DnD, or ODnD, is the original, or "White Box" rule set, the one that came out significantly before ADnD or BDnD -- the rule set that is a derivative of Chainmail and has four books (I believe) in the rule set. Basic DnD is the boxed set/cyclopedia collection and everything that goes with it. And no one questions what ADnD means. If you'd want to get real technical, ODnD might even be the original, hand-printed, 1000 copy run of the rules produced by Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, and someone else whose name disrepectfully escapes me at the moment. I've been reading this list long enough to rest assured that my statements will very possibly be denounced as nitpicky, or at the very least will garner a sideways mention in a list of things that are wrong with this mailing list (Please! Prove me wrong!) ... but I still think that the distinction in important. The progression of the rule sets is a piece of the history of what has become our hobby, and in some cases, our art. I think it is important to be respectful to that tradition and to learn about it. It should be as important to those of us that take DnD seriously as American history is to a patriot or veteran, and I think that newer players should at least be exposed to the history of Dungeons and Dragons (even though they may bristle at us the way I bristled at my social studies teachers ...) On the other hand, there are many gamers who want nothing more out of the game than a good adventure, a good time, and some good friends, and that's fine. They may not be interested in how things became The Way They Are Now. They're just looking for a way to differentiate the Rules Cyclopedia/Boxed Set rules from ADnD, and they're going to want to ignore any discussion about this, but it's here if they ever want to know. And that's all I have to say about that. John Hofmann ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 08:17:27 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Along the lines of my previous thoughts on this subject, there is a very good history of TSR and Dungeons and Dragons on the Wizards of the Coast website. I'm sure many of you have seen this, but for those that haven't, I stongly recommend you check it out. It's in the "Archives" section of "DnD Game" or something like that. Look around, you'll find it. John Hofmann ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 09:29:14 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: National Strengths MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit . > Just a way of explaining a situation that occurred, > IMO, by accident... > I have developed an explanation. All will be revealed in due time 8-) (Of course, it's only one explanation, no better or worse than the one you gave, but it's integrated with a large history of Thyatis that I'm still working on. Finished the Bright Age yesterday, now working on a period of civil war.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:13:15 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wait a sec, add me to the list! i'm historical, and i'll be dead pretty soon, unless Larethias and Golthar decide they like me . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 12:17:39 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i have never bought a DnD, ADnD, BDnD, WhateverDnD anything, I used to make up my own worlds and everything, based on whatever information i had available, which was, of course, the "core rules" information. I would have inconsistancy all over the place, because one day the adventuring party was in um, Frostland, and the next day they were in a tavern in Faen Luria, the elven homelands. Although a long campaign wasn't possible, every session was EXTREMELY fun, for both the players and the GM, no matter who it was, because you didn't have to worry about whether or not the Traldarans and the Thyatians were warring in this part of the country due to the fact that the refugee elves prayed to a false god that messed up the Darokinian trading and canceled a guild meeting in Minrothad, which also just happened to spur a war in Wendar because they weren't getting the supplies they needed from Darokin, because of the war that is going on between Thyatis and Traldar, which in turn was because of the . . . . . . . . . See how confusing that can be to a small boy of 8 years old? Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:39:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:27:47 `ilo ygm wrote: >>(Gee, I hope I'm not just wasting everybody's time with this). > >> - The Stalker of Alphatia > >God no! >This is one of the most productive stuff Ive seen on the list (and Ive been here for a few years). >Thank you for a fine job. Thes heroes may find there way to my (upcoming) camoaign. Thanks! It's always most inspiring when someone appreciates what you do. I have to admit, though, that this post was merely a number of NPCs I cut out of a list of NPCs I did several months ago, so I didn't really slave so much over it (in fact, I'm working on something else), but thanks for the comments... Oh, and send any dead NPCs you have lying around (awful pun fully intended - especially in Morphail's case ;) ) to the list so we can all enjoy them... Well - maybe not in the same way you would, obviously :) Meltheim the Shadowstalker wrote: > >wait a sec, add me to the list! i'm >historical, and i'll be dead pretty >soon, unless Larethias and Golthar decide they >like me . . . > Okay, but remember that you'll have to die first! Make sure that we get a note once you're dead, and we'll consider putting you on the list then. And if Larenthias and Golthar (?) can't get the job done, just drop me a line - I can contact Terari and Broderick, and between the three of us we can probably finish you off... ;) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:44:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: It's coming... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:30:13 Meltheim Shadowstalker wrote: >i don't know about you guys but this elf is worried . . . He-he, I was wondering when people would start to get spooked ;) But you can relax. My latest project is a historical project, so I'm *not* about to hit Mystara with some lame, unoriginal, non-canon (uh-oh - not that word again...) catastrophe. My project might seem a bit unoriginal, though, but the players IMC loved it... Actually, I won't send it all at the same time anyway, so expect the first part within the next few hours.... Ahem, that is [putting on phony theatrical voice]... 'The Calamity Star is upon us....' - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 10:46:18 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Term for Mystara Rule Set (was Re: Alignment Dialogue.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > Also, I think we need to come up with a different term for the rule set that > most Mystara material is written for. It is NOT "original D&D" but a set of > rules that was developed mostly in parallel and in some cases subsequent > to 1st edition AD&D -- and it is debatable which one really strayed further > from the original. I am not meaning to put the Basic/Expert/etc. rules down > -- far from it, I think they were in most ways superior to either edition of > AD&D -- but I think it might be a good idea to try and describe the different > rule sets accurately, before we have a whole generation of gamers convinced > that the rules in those colorful boxed sets really were the original D&D > rules. Well, I've started calling it "0E D&D" (that's a 'zero' not an 'oh'), or even just "0E" (like many people just call the upcoming version "3E"). I came up with it when I started talking about the other editions for the Mystara 3E project. "OE" fits well vs. "1E AD&D", "2E AD&D" and "3E D&D". It's also sort of in line with the age old 'tradition' of calling it "OD&D" (since a 'zero' and 'oh' are very similar) without actually calling it that. The other option I thought of is to call it "BD&D" (for Basic D&D). I don't particularly like that option myself though, because the rule set encompasses much more than just the Basic boxed set. That and the fact that too many people equate the term "Basic" with "simple and for kids". In any case, I'm going to continue using "0E" and "0E D&D" until someone gives me a good reason not to. :-) Jenni PS: Note, of course, that "OD&D" can also be for "old" D&D, but most people do think it means "original" and usually expand the abbreviation that way. -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:36:50 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are my suggestions, utterly completist: OD&D (Old D&D): Brown Box Set; White Box Set; Greyhawk; Blackmoor; Eldritch Wizardry; Gods, Demigods & Heroes. ID&D (Intermediate D&D): Blue/Purple Box [The first to be called "Basic Dungeons & Dragons"; this system showed elements of BOTH D&D and AD&D. Would have been real interesting to see what would have happened if this continued as the template for the system... though TSR had to differentiate D&D from AD&D for various $$$ purposes, so D&D evolved distinctly for AD&D]. BD&D (Basic D&D): Red Box Basic (first edition); Blue Box Expert (first edition). ED&D (Expanded D&D): Red Box Basic (second edition); Blue Box Expert (second edition); Green Box Companion; Black Box Masters; Gold Box Immortals. CD&D (Cyclopedic D&D): D&D Cyclopedia; Wrath of the Immortals Box. 1.0 E AD&D: 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide; 1st Edition Player's Handbook; 1st Edition Monster Manual; 1st Edition Fiend Folio; 1st Edition Deities & Demigods (both versions, + 1st Edition "Legends & Lore"). 1.5 E AD&D: 1.0 E PLUS Unearthed Arcana; Monster Manual II; Dungeoneers Survival Guide; Wilderness Survival Guide; Manual of the Planes; Dragonlance Adventures; Greyhawk Adventures. 2.0 E AD&D: 2nd Edition DMG; 2nd Edition PHB; Monstrous Manual (folio & book versions); Monstrous Compendium Series; Complete "X" Handbook Series (red books); DMG Rules Supplement Series (blue books); Historical Reference Series (green books); Legends & Lore 2nd Edition; Book of Artifacts; Tome of Magic; Forgotten Realms Adventures. 2.5 E AD&D: 2.0 E PLUS Player's Option Series; DM Option Series; Campaign Option Series; Domains of Dread. 3.0 E (A)D&D: ??? Magister Mystaros Exalted Mage of Mystara Chronicler of Pandius All-around Party Animal ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 11:40:28 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set (was Re: Alignment Dialogue.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" wrote: > > The other option I thought of is to call it "BD&D" > (for Basic D&D). I don't > particularly like that option myself though, because > the rule set encompasses > much more than just the Basic boxed set. That and > the fact that too many > people equate the term "Basic" with "simple and for > kids". Well, I think the solution may ironically be TSR's designation: Challenger. Of course, then how do you abbreviate that? CD&D just seems a little too weird to me. Suggetsions? auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:04:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Meltheim the Shadowstalker wrote: > > > >wait a sec, add me to the list! i'm >historical, and i'll be dead pretty > >soon, unless Larethias and Golthar decide they >like me . . . > > > > Okay, but remember that you'll have to die first! Make sure that we get a note once you're dead, and we'll consider putting you on the list then. And if Larenthias and Golthar (?) can't get the job done, just drop me a line - I can contact Terari and Broderick, and between the three of us we can probably finish you off... ;) > > - The Stalker I KNEW IT! ALPHATIANS ARE NOT CHANGED! DRAW YOUR SWORDS, BALD LEGIONS OF THYATIS! CHARGE!!! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:11:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:04:46 Caroletti wrote: >> Meltheim the Shadowstalker wrote: >> > >> >wait a sec, add me to the list! i'm >historical, and i'll be dead pretty >> >soon, unless Larethias and Golthar decide they >like me . . . >> > >> >> Okay, but remember that you'll have to die first! Make sure that we get a note once you're dead, and we'll consider putting you on the list then. And if Larenthias and Golthar (?) can't get the job done, just drop me a line - I can contact Terari and Broderick, and between the three of us we can probably finish you off... ;) >> >> - The Stalker > >I KNEW IT! ALPHATIANS ARE NOT CHANGED! >DRAW YOUR SWORDS, BALD LEGIONS OF THYATIS! >CHARGE!!! Yikes! The Thyatian legions are *BALD* now?? Will the tricks they try to throw our fine Alphatian troops off guard never cease [sorry, Giulio - I just couldn't resist :) My bad!] Still, remember that he wanted to get onto that list (for which he would *have* to be dead) - as a nice and liberated Alphatian I was merely trying to oblige! [Boy, am I going to get it now!] So put away your puny weapons before we unleash our mighty Alphatian armies on you - not to mention my not-quite-so delayed blast fireballs ;) - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:20:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: The Calamity Star (part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm. I tried sending this to the list a little while ago, but it seems it didn't arrive. Well, no matter - I'll just try again. Sorry if it shows up twice though! ----- This is an idea for use during the Wrath of the Immortals adventure/campaign, so if you're playing that or planning to you might want to take a look. It's working well beyond my expectations IMC, so maybe other people will find it interesting too (well, I can hope, can't I?) -------------------------------------------- "The Calamity Star" The Prophecies of Jarrot the Mad. Jarrot "the Mad" was an Alphatian diviner who lived over a thousand years ago and was much revered in his younger days, for he was said to be able to foretell the future. As time passed, more and more people came to rely on his predictions, but when he failed, Jarrot felt guilty, especially if people had suffered great loss from believing his predictions. Because of this, Jarrot kept pushing himself to the limit of his abilities. At one point his prophecies apparently convinced him that Mystara itself was threatened by some great cataclysmic event. He foretold the possible destruction of the world, and some believed him. His claims stated that "with the end of the first millennium of the new empire, a new star will appear in the sky as a harbinger of doom, for it will foretell the end of the world". He was much rediculed in Alphatia when the Empire passed well beyond the year 1000 AY (year 0 AC to Thyatians) and his predictions did not come true! Yet Jarrot felt that he needed to find out more from his predictions and kept pushing his divining abilities to their limits in order to discover more information about the end of the world. Eventually, the strain broke his mind, and Jarrot went insane. Yet rumor has it, that he wrote his doomsday-prophecies down in a secret text called "The Calamity Star". This is the lost document of Jarrot the Mad. (1) As the new empire, mighty and sly, its first millennium passes in bloom a strange, new star will appear in the sky as the omen and harbinger of doom. (2) The Calamity Star foretells conflict and how the world will end and be no more, dividing mighty as none could predict giving opportunities to cause war (3) Leaving so without hope those seeking peace against those wishing order to harass, succeeding in unseen war to release as above the sun and the moon do clash (4) Nations will behave strangely and traits lose so none recognize them the slightest bit, as the much skilled it cannot rightly use while those with no incentive now have it (5) A death and consequent situation seems random, yet causes further decay as suspect debates yield no solution and thus it will only cause more dismay (6) The foul murder of an innocent man will serve to further dim the lights of peace as the deaths of devout men peace will ban where those involved wish it only to cease (7) And those men of murder falsely accused will flee helped by those seeking peace restored though fate its power otherwise abused for the opposite, as evil implored (8) The slaughter of innocents at a feast will thus turn brother against another. Stern announcements solves not matters the least but reveal pacts as brother wars brother (9) In lands where none wish it, war comes about while none involved seek it, though there be blame. Without cause the dwellings of the devout will be sought out and then consumed by flame (10) The accused through those who peace desire will succeed to escape, but cause much death bringing so the burning blaze of fire and so dooming peace to draw its last breath (11) The lord from beyond armies does summon leading them against allies without trust defeating all, heroic or common, old grudges must fall, lest people be crushed (12) Shadow falls withering peaceful flower in lands between seas where the sun does stroll as arcane artists then unleash power to freely roam where it's beyond control (13) In lands of daybreak first casualties fall while then to the civilized lands of gold the lord from beyond his armies will call so innocents feel conquest's bitter cold (14) Ancient brother will try with greatest art his ancient brother in rage to destroy as with secrets of old neither will part and so to kill both great power employ (15) Thus the reluctant king lion to be abandons allies who cannot be told seeking out new ones, great trust is the key, to find in the enemies of the old (16) For the quest for allies someone must care and calls for someone who into this delves and they will meet with peril and despair and be opposed by Immortals themselves (17) Agreements are made, to some treachery, to some freedom they dare not rely on old friends and new foes form conspiracy stopped not, assassins slay the king lion (18) To find peace, the lands united must be forcing the lord from beyond to defeat his curse, the Calamity Star, all see and so land and wilderness doom must meet (19) The Calamity Star grows in the skies as all realize that the time is near and it will cause despair and endless cries mark the fall of hope - the coming of fear (20) For then out of the skies the stars will fall and the world with flames engulf and so drown ruining land and town, destroying all, killing men, knocking mighty mountains down TO BE CONTINUED... ------------------------- Yes, I'm evil - I know it ;) If this is at all interesting to you and you want to see part 2, then comment on this part: It's the best way to inspire me to get part 2 finished (I'm a bit stuck in one of the later quatrains). I admit that the whole concept may seem a bit unoriginal, but the players loved it! I gave them the first 20 quatrains (which I just sent to the list) and they spent an entire gaming session wondering about it and trying to interpret it, so I just leaned back and watched their speculation and paranoia - it was most satisfying I assure you! :) - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:03:41 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set (was Re: Alignment Dialogue.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-23 2:40:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, habgyp@YAHOO.COM writes: << Well, I think the solution may ironically be TSR's designation: Challenger. Of course, then how do you abbreviate that? CD&D just seems a little too weird to me. Suggetsions? >> One term that I used for a while was "RC D&D" (RC = "Rules Cyclopedia"). The main problem that I see with that term is that the D&D Rules Cyclopedia is a relatively late development (about contemporary with the "Challenger" designation, in fact) and so may be a bit tricky to apply to the brightly colored boxed sets. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:03:51 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set (was Re: Alignment Dialogue.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-23 1:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, strawberry@JAMM.COM writes: << In any case, I'm going to continue using "0E" and "0E D&D" until someone gives me a good reason not to. :-) Jenni PS: Note, of course, that "OD&D" can also be for "old" D&D, but most people do think it means "original" and usually expand the abbreviation that way. >> The only problem that I see is that as far as I am concerned these rules did not really take off until the publication of the gazetteer series -- and as near as I can tell most if not all of the gazetteers post-dated the core 2E books. That is one reason that I really have a tough time thinking of those rules as "old". I played 1E AD&D during my last year of college -- but I started a Mystara campaign nearly a decade later, with both Gaz 3 and the 2E PHB among the recently published material that I referenced. Somewhere in between I had picked up all those colorful boxed sets and many of the modules, but I did not even think of running my own game until Gaz 3 gave me the perfect place to start things out. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:47:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:30 +0100 Caroletti writes: > King STEFAN KARAMEIKOS, the Dark Ruler of Traladara > > WARNING: I don�t want a million of posts that says how a stupid idiot > imperialistic Thyatian and Karameikos-hater I am- I am NOT. It�s > just an > alternative view on things that could appeal to persons that like > devious and sinister explanations to what�s happening in Mystara. It > can > be seen as a joke, as an adventure idea etc etc. > ROTFL! A very amusing idea, and not only that but it could actually _work_ as a campaign. Great stuff! Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:49:54 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A long, long time ago, I was thinking about creating some Mystaran Ravenloft domains. The main problem I ran into was that most of the really evil Mystaran personalities end up Immortal, and aren't available. The only one who dosen't is Hazulnuthram (sp?) but then he's in MoA and isn't available either. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:48:04 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set (was Re: AlignmentDialogue.) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my take on this debate: The main thing that matters is "do people know what you're talking about when you use a certain abreviation?" The main reason "OD&D" is used is to distinguish it from D&D as a whole and from AD&D specifically - and when 3E comes out under the appelation "D&D", a quick & easy designator to separate it from what "we" understand to be the rules set most commonly (& originally) used with this game world, Mystara. As far as AD&D 1st edition & AD&D 2nd edition are concerned, for the purpose of this list it hasn't usually been important to distinguish between the versions of AD&D, it's been more important to differentiate between AD&D (either edition) and what has normally been abreviated as "OD&D" - even though for the purpose of Mystara that rules set ("OD&D") was effectively contemporanious with 1st edition AD&D. Perhaps the designation "OD&D" came about because Mystara was only translated into AD&D terms rather late in its existance, thus the "original" or "old" rules for the world we discuss on this list are the D&D ("OD&D") rules sets. I propose for the sake of convenience and clarity we continue to use the abreviations we are familiar with already: OD&D, AD&D, and 3ED&D or 3E. But if folks want to use other abreviations of their own design, it probably isn't a big deal - the only thing that matters, ultimately, is when you write them, people should be easily able to recognize what you're refering to. For that purpose I think our currently-used/common abreviations serve their purpose. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:58:30 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > A long, long time ago, I was thinking about creating some Mystaran > Ravenloft domains. The main problem I ran into was that most of the > really evil Mystaran personalities end up Immortal, and aren't available. > The only one who dosen't is Hazulnuthram (sp?) but then he's in MoA and > isn't available either. > Well, there are alternatives. What about Zendrolion? Perhaps he didn't die in AC 20, that could have just been the explanation that was used when he suddenly disapeared (taken by the mists) - of course, I'm going to use him for something else in a bit (that timeline I'm working on will contain a clue), but that doesn't mean other people can't use him for something else (put him in Ravenloft). I think if we looked through the modules & other materiels, we could probably find guys who "richly deserve" a "long" (read=permanent) vacation to the Domain of Dread. I'll have to think about that. I don't know much about Ravenloft (it being one of a few TSR campaign worlds I for some reason never really got involved in), but I might be able to find some really nasty dudes that belong there. Hey, how 'bout a Domain of Carnifex in Ravenloft? Perhaps it's the "other dimension" where their Castle (from Twilight's Calling) is stuck in, at least IYMU. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:35:30 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [snip] Hear Hear. Why muddy the waters with acronyms! OD&D or BD&D are fine to use, I can't see why anyone has a problem with that. Noone still plays the archaic brown and white box rules do they? Therefore, creating a whole set of acronyms to describe that is redundant. OD&D just describes a blanket of rules systems that are not AD&D, or D&D3. There. I'm happy. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:06:29 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:58:30 -0600 James Ruhland writes: > > > > A long, long time ago, I was thinking about creating some Mystaran > > Ravenloft domains. The main problem I ran into was that most of > the > > really evil Mystaran personalities end up Immortal, and aren't > available. > > The only one who dosen't is Hazulnuthram (sp?) but then he's in > MoA and > > isn't available either. > > > Well, there are alternatives. > What about Zendrolion? Perhaps he didn't die in AC 20, that > could have > just been the explanation that was used when he suddenly disapeared > (taken > by the mists) - of course, I'm going to use him for something else > in a bit > (that timeline I'm working on will contain a clue), but that doesn't > mean > other people can't use him for something else (put him in > Ravenloft). THe problem is that the only thing that seems to really qualify as Dark Power attention getting is his betrayl and slaying of... damn it, the mage fellow who helped start off Thyatis... and he was still around for twenty years after that, and the Mists don't seem to generally have delayed reactions... > I think if we looked through the modules & other materiels, > we could > probably find guys who "richly deserve" a "long" (read=permanent) > vacation > to the Domain of Dread. I'll have to think about that. I don't know > much > about Ravenloft (it being one of a few TSR campaign worlds I for > some > reason never really got involved in), but I might be able to find > some > really nasty dudes that belong there. Well, good luck. Maybe Baron Norlan from the Norwold modules, but he's still around too... > Hey, how 'bout a Domain of Carnifex in Ravenloft? Perhaps > it's the "other > dimension" where their Castle (from Twilight's Calling) is stuck in, > at > least IYMU. Well, IMC Ravenloft is where the Outer Beings are, though the demiplane the AD&D multiversers think is Ravenloft is just a gigantic gateway to the Outer Being's prison, but anyway putting the Carnifex in with their master's would defeat the point I think... Anyway, the clsest thing to a Ravenloft thingie that's happened in "canon" Mystara is Ettienne d'Ambreville and the whole "Land of the Mists" buisness (X2/MoA). Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:17:38 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Iulius Sergius Scaevola Part Two MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IULIUS SERGIUS SCAEVOLA-Part Two Part One finished when Iulius Sergius Scaevola, prisoner of the Alphatians after the succesful siege of Redstone (summer 1007), managed to escape with the help of former members of the XXth Cohort and other Thyatian units dislocated on the Isle of Dawn. Here comes Part Two: Iulius leaves for Furmenglaive, where he is heavily involved with the guerrilla troops, and gets in touch with Count Phileus Furmenglaive. In 1008, he returns to Port Lucinius, with the survivors of the XXth Cohort, and is made Praefect (Captain), being one of the survivors with the highest rank. The XXth Cohort is then completed with many young recruits, and he spends the whole year first training them, and then guiding some occasional support troops in the naval skirmishes with Alphatia. When Alphatians enter Thyatis in 1009, Iulius and the XXth Cohort fight in the most bloody battles of the War, among which is notable the Battle of Retebius, a bloodbath that will be remembered as the worst in nearly two centuries of Alphatian/Thyatian conflicts. Iulius Sergius Scaevola loses his left eyes, and receives wounds that make his right arm unusable- a macabre irony for a man whose surname Scaevola in the Thyatian (RW: Latin) language means 'Left-Handed'. Fortunately for him, when the war is over, Iulius succeeds in finding clerical help that can cure his physical damages, although severe scars still show his past wounds. The brave Captain has also fought agains the Thotian undead in year 1012 and 1013, then he returned to Port Lucinius, with the duty of re-organizing his Cohort, according to the new armies' improvements designed by Thincol and his counselors; this was again interrupted by the War of the Crown, where he sided definitely with emperor Eusebius. Appearance: Iulius Sergius Scaevola is now 36 years old, and has spent half his life in the Army. He is a tall man, although he doesn't seem the fighter-type, being not particularly muscled, and rather of thin building. He has dark brown eyes and black hair, kept very short, and a short beard that begins to show hints of grey. He has a deep scar over his left eye, and his right hand and arm are full of burning scars, caused to him by an Alphatian fireball [hint hint!heh heh heh] during the Battle of Retebius. Personality: Iulius Sergius Scaevola is a two-faceted man. When he is in duty in the Army, he is a humorless officer that dislikes frimly every incompetence, a pragmatic, practical, overly efficient son-of-a-bitch; he hates indiscipline, and is takes too seriously all matters concerning his duties; when he is not in service, he is a humorous person, a very nice and tolerant guy who is especially fond of jokes and non-senses, and spends every permit travelling through the Old World. he has been twice in Glantri, a nation he finds very interesting, but he isn't fond of Karameikos, especially after the War of the Crown, and believes Ylarians and Ethengarians are savages out of place in a civilized world. He is a very patient person, and is very calm and cold, so he can be very useful in difficult moments, but he is a very ponderative man, and can also become very irritating when quick decisions are to be taken. This could also be a reason why he is just a Praefect, and not a General: he is the perfect lieutenant, but is not really bright and daring enough to be a commander. Anyway, he's a capable and honest official. Iulius Sergius Scaevola is a long-term friend with Vivianna Romanones, but is in very bad relationships with his younger brother Phileus.He is a strong supporter of Eusebius, because he thinks that the nation needs more than everything stability, now, and Eusebius could be the right man for providing it to the Empire. OD&D Game Stats: Str 11, Int 12, Wis 15, Dex 11, Cos 13, Cha 14 Fighter 24th level Alignment: Lawful (LN) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:14:13 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey! What? No Glantrian notables? Well, I guess with Glantri's history so planned out, thanks to Harri Maki, it will be easy (and hard) to make up one. Perhaps our past princes or nobles or past headmasters of the Great School? Hello to the GPD out there? Any takers in writing about dead Glantrians? (As if writing about living and recently dead Glantrians weren't time-consuming enough!) But what you've written so far is great! Kit Navarro GPD fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Oh, we have so many distinguished dead in history! But what is death in Glantri? There are those of who have been alive since before the Principalities! There are those of us who have died once, and again, and yet again, and are still with us among the living. And of course, there are those who have come back from the dead, in a less than 'alive' manner... if you know what I mean. Being dead in Glantri is just different from being dead elsewhere." --Princess Isidore d'Ambreville discussing her views on death over dinner. No one lost their appetite, save the Karameikan ambassador. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:23:41 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I KNEW IT! ALPHATIANS ARE NOT CHANGED! > >DRAW YOUR SWORDS, BALD LEGIONS OF THYATIS! > >CHARGE!!! > > Yikes! The Thyatian legions are *BALD* now?? Will the tricks they try to throw our fine Alphatian troops off guard never cease [sorry, Giulio - I just couldn't resist :) My bad!] I think our dear captain issued some Potions of Invulernabity to his troops, which he bought in his recent trip to trip to Glantri, from a certain Dame Diane de Moriamis. Heh-heh-heh! Them is some nasty drinks, eh mon capitaine? Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Oh, why go to war? Let those Thyatians do the dirty work. We'll pick up the spoils later" --Dame Diane de Moriamis, giving military advice to Prinz Jaggar von Drachenfels at a party ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:28:13 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Glantrian Joke MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What do you call someone who speaks four languages? Glantrian What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Darokinian What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Karameikan What do you call someone who speaks only one language? Thyatian Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Excuse me! Did you just call me a Thyatian?... Actually, I'm from Hattias." --a Thyatian tourist to Glantri City ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 01:45:25 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:14:13 Francisco V. Navarro wrote: >Hey! What? No Glantrian notables? > >Well, I guess with Glantri's history so planned out, thanks to Harri Maki, >it will be easy (and hard) to make up one. Perhaps our past princes or >nobles or past headmasters of the Great School? > >Hello to the GPD out there? Any takers in writing about dead Glantrians? (As >if writing about living and recently dead Glantrians weren't time-consuming >enough!) > >But what you've written so far is great! Why, thank you! I would like to point out, though, that one reason why there aren't any Glantrians is (at least partially) because Glantri is a rather young nation. My dead NPCs go back a long time, and Glantri, or rather what later became Glantri, didn't even exist until around 500 AC. But I admit that I didn't put enough Glantrians in there. There should also have been more people from Ylaruam and Wendar. But you are more than welcome to add your own to the list. I would certainly like to see them, myself! - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 18:45:52 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > THe problem is that the only thing that seems to really qualify as Dark > Power attention getting is his betrayl and slaying of... damn it, the > mage fellow who helped start off Thyatis... > Lucinius. > and he was still around for > twenty years after that, and the Mists don't seem to generally have > delayed reactions... > Well, indications seem to be that he reigned as somewhat of a tyrant (at least that's my take on it) - slaying the kings, then occupying Och & P.I. and simply replacing Alphatia's magical despotism with a military one. Of course that in and of itself isn't enough, prolly (or lots more dudes would be in Ravenloft), but one can add in all sorts of details building up to some big whammie that functions as the last straw. Perhaps he was unkind to children or something. Perhaps he did what he did for some Really Dark Long-Term Purpose and was about to slaughter X number of people to bring it to fruition or something. The great thing about fellows like Zendrolion is 1) we know they aren't completely nice fellows but 2) Asside from that there's a lot of gaps that can be filled in. Perhaps Zendrolion was ok except for a few murders. Or perhaps he was a truely wicked psychopath. The "canon" leaves it a bit open ended - all you need to do is create the backstory that is suitable for someone who gets Mistnapped. > > Well, IMC Ravenloft is where the Outer Beings are, though the demiplane > the AD&D multiversers think is Ravenloft is just a gigantic gateway to > the Outer Being's prison, but anyway putting the Carnifex in with their > master's would defeat the point I think... > Ahhh, ok. Quite. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:49:06 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John R Hofmann wrote: > > I've been reading this list long enough to rest assured that my > statements will very possibly be denounced as nitpicky, or at the very > least will garner a sideways mention in a list of things that are wrong > with this mailing list (Please! Prove me wrong!) ... but I still think > that the distinction in important. Oh I agree that the distinction isn't irrelevant, John. What worries me is the 'attitude' that I perceive sometimes on this list, a very defensive attitude on the part of the users of the original D&D/OD&D system. (Or whatever you wish to call it.) I tried running an OD&D game recently, but it didn't work. Nobody took it seriously, and nobody wanted to play. This is mostly due to the fact that in my local area, the only system most are familiar with is AD&D. (In fact, we were just discussing last night that there's a new generation of gamers who didn't even start gaming on D&D. Isn't that something?) I was the only one with books too, so nobody had any of their own reference material. AD&D is a good system, most everyone has materials for it, and most of them know it well. So that's what I run. Just to illustrate my worries, look at this particular thread of discussion. It started with alignment debates. Then it completely went off tangent onto the minute detail of editions of older rules. No discussion of the alignments in question at all. I'll admit that alignments aren't that deep of a discussion anyway, but this is why I lurk more than I post. We say that this list is open to anyone who runs Mystara, regardless of what rules system they use. And in practice it usually is. I'm just a little defensive myself, I guess, and the twisting of my post into this particular discussion I found very disheartening. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:14:08 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain In-Reply-To: <20000123.164957.-219239.3.anowack@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:49 PM 1/23/00 -0600, you wrote: >A long, long time ago, I was thinking about creating some Mystaran >Ravenloft domains. The main problem I ran into was that most of the >really evil Mystaran personalities end up Immortal, and aren't available. > The only one who dosen't is Hazulnuthram (sp?) but then he's in MoA and >isn't available either. You could probably still do an Averoignian Ravenloft domain- perhaps it was created when Chateau D'Ambreville was pulled into the mists, and, even though the Immortal Etienne d'Ambreville later managed to pull the Chateau and most of his relatives out of the Mists, perhaps some vestige of the realm remains in Ravenloft... and perhaps not all of the d'Ambrevilles made it out... ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:09:14 +0000 Reply-To: bing@iccom.com Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > I wonder what kinds of adventures folks have run for Atruaghin chars in > their home land? Intertribal rivalries are obvious, but there doesn't > seem much material to work with from my limited imagination perspective. > The lack of adventures in the GAZ itself also proves limiting, as those > samples usually give me better ideas for the feel of the land and what > would work there. So, what all have you done with this land? Well, when I first started playing in the Known World in 1983 or so, the only information I had on Atruaghin was module X1. It was pretty vague, describing clans descended from an ancient hero but nothing about their culture. Anyway I interpreted this as a bleak, foggy plateau inhabited by barbarian clans of the "Conan" variety. They lived in small city states, carried around giant two-handed swords, and fought incessantly, pausing only for occasional raids on the borders of Darokin. Of course they worshipped a brooding Crom-like god. (We didn't have immortals in those days either; gods were GODS, not puny mortal upstarts!) The forests down below were filled with giant monsters such as dragons and hydra, and mostly uninhabited. It was only many years later that I discovered what Atruaghin as *supposed* to be. The concept didn't sound very adventurous, and since American Indians seemed REALLY out of place on the outskirts of Darokin, and since there was no obvious replacement for my barbarian clans, I stuck with my original idea. Sometimes violating canon is lots more fun. :-) I had a few other odd interpretations back in those days too. For example, east of Darokin was more broken lands, with the City of the Dead as an adventuring destination. The Ierendi isles (again X1 was pretty vague and failed to mention anything polynesian) were patterned vaguely on the Wizard of Earthsea, being lightly inhabited by fishermen and pirates. The interiors of the isles were mountainous and hid strange ruins. Ylaruam was virtually uninhabited except for Ylaruam City, and the desert was a sea of dunes prowled by giant sandworms (stolen from Dune). Thyatis resembled France or Spain more than it did Rome. Anyway, things were different. In some ways I still like my version better, although it lacked the depth and history of the "real" Mystara. Anyway, my suggestion is: if it doesn't work for you, change it. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:17:24 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > If this is at all interesting to you and you want to see part 2, then comment on this part: It's the best way to inspire me to get part 2 finished (I'm a bit stuck in one of the later quatrains). > Well, I don't know what to say as far as comments except that it was interesting. I'm usually bad at commenting on such things - heck, I haven't even deciphered what all the quatrains were alluding to yet, but perhaps when I have I'll have more queries. In any case, don't let that stop you from finishing it. Will be waiting for the next section 8-). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:35:42 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Magical SAT's etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/20/00 1:24:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << I personally assume that a wizard can only cast core spells (ie, Players handbook, ToM, and the rest) and not campaign specific stuff (Glantrian spells, Planescape spells, whatever). If you want to do this, your looking at a five year apprenticeship to see how their magic works. The Ancient Mighty Empire of Alphatia is the product of 4000+ years of magical excellence, and having some PC just wander in, collect the choice nifties and wander out again - one word, No. >> Well, I dot own the nifty Tomes of magic, but in the spirit of 3E conversion, maybe someone who has though about this could post lists of kW appropriate "common" spells by region? On a bigger scale, It's my take that Alphatia has the greatest penetration of magic into day to day living, not unlike Magitech Amazing Engine system, or some of the FR appendices on the sorcerous empires of the South. But with a decidely convienience driven, laisez fair attitude, perhaps no two items or places being identicle. Glantri, by contrast (with the exception of the oddly eclectic capital city) is much more of your traditional FRP land with the Mages replacing the nobility. [Their magical applications have both the eccentric alphatian everyday uses, and the Military practicality of their Thyatian roots. They, more than the empire, have the deadly combo of Magical Might and Military efficiency. They have needed it to survive in the face of their opposition, and they have taken it too a zealotous extreme.] IMO, a way to look at Glantri Vs other FRP nations is essentially the same old system, but with a group traditionally relegated to the "enemy" or "trusted advisor" capacity actually holding the reigns of power. Jealously holding, for that matter. Outsider mages coming in are not readily welcomed, but seen as foreign profiteer trying to cash in on a system the old families of Glantri have fought and bled to maintain. The wizards of Glantri are the Gentry, and anyone coming in from outside is potentially taking the place of a native son or daughter in the elaborately convoluted Sequence of Radiance. Just trying to get a grip on how to "style" these different land and this goes to the heart of Magic SAT thread. The great school is the first big step to the reigns of power, and I think they would have a natural interest in keeping a close watch on the entrance to the Ivory Tower. Perhaps this is one of the biggest advantages in getting appointed to the position of Headmaster . . . he or she has the final say on who gets in or not . . . who gets to advance or not . . . who gets to do what research . . . and ultimately who gets to graduate. Favors must be paid, political interest weighed, etc. While some see it as the training ground of the idle rich, those in the know are aware that it is the very heart of the Glantrian hierarchy. Friendships and enemies made in the School will decide the fate of Glantri for years to come. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:38:27 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:17:24 James Ruhland wrote: >Well, I don't know what to say as far as comments except that it was >interesting. I'm usually bad at commenting on such things - heck, I haven't >even deciphered what all the quatrains were alluding to yet, but perhaps >when I have I'll have more queries. In any case, don't let that stop you >from finishing it. Will be waiting for the next section 8-). Thanks James - I *really* couldn't wait for someone to comment. Naturally deciphering the quatrains *SHOULD* be hard - almost impossible. In fact, though The Master of the Desert Nomads is a great and well-known threat IMC at the moment and one that the PCs are actually trying to combat, there is still one player IMC who is utterly convinced that 'The Lord from Beyond' is some ghost-lord who'll soon march all over Mystara's surface with his vast armies of undead. Naturally I haven't set him straight yet (he'll be *SO* disappointed) ;) Still, if you have the Timeline from WotI it's not really that difficult to decipher the whole thing. I pretty much take all the events in the order they are described there. But once I've done part two, I plan to make a little document which I think I'll call "Oh, the Wisdom of hindsight - interpretations of The Calamity Star by Master Terari". One clue though. The 'King Lion' I refer is naturally Stefan Karameikos. He's called so because IMC he used to be loosely connected to a group of adventurers called 'The Lions of Kerendas' in his younger days. If you look closely at my list of dead NPCs you'll actually find references to this group. Well, sorry for babbling on like this, gotta get back to writing some more quatrains to confuse my players with. - The Stalker PS: In case anyone's wondering - yes, I *did* get a book on the Prophecies of Nostradamus for Christmas :) but I had already done a great amount of work on this project by then. The inspiration for The Calamity Star came more from tv-shows like First Wave and Millennium (damn - why did they have to cancel that...) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:39:01 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Stalker wrote: > "The Calamity Star" > > The Prophecies of Jarrot the Mad. > [SNIP] Very cool. It isn't that easy to 'invent' Prophetic Quatrains, even when you know what they really refer to. I'm impressed, even though I've never read the plot for the WotI campaign (a promise made to someone else who owns it, along with no desire to really use such a world shattering campaign). Please do send the rest. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:39:47 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I have noticed something that explains why certain nations fared so poorly in WotI (and afterwards) despite indications that they should have done much better. First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal should have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of that nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and recent plots against the Alfheim elves. However, there are a couple of ways he let himself get distracted. First of all, during WotI Eiryndul was a far more visible foe than Rafiel. Without the chance to dig deeper, Ilsundal would naturally believe that Eiryndul was carrying out the plans of the Fellowship of the Star against Ilsundal. Given that Eiryndul's mischief did not have very serious effects, Ilsundal believed that he could ignore the situation in Alfheim and concentrate on subverting Ochalea and the Pearl Islands. Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in disregarding events in Alfheim. The major disadvatage that Thyatis faced is that many Immortals were actively working against Thyatis but none were favoring Thyatis for its own sake -- they all intended to use Thyatis to shield the Glantrian Nucleus of the Spheres against Alphatia. The problem was that Alphatia had over twice the manpower and other resources that Thyatis did, so Thyatis would be doomed if Alphatia ever devoted its undivided, long term attention to destroying Thyatis. In 960 AC the Alphatians had nearly done just that, but at the time they moved as directly as they could against Thyatis City, figuring that once that city had fallen the rest of the empire would fall apart. During WotI the Alphatians bided their time and waged a major campaign of propaganda and intimidation against the allies and subject nations of Thyatis. Their message: Thyatis has been abandoned by the Immortals and is doomed, along with anyone who sides with them. This propaganda was devastatingly effective, as every fact that one could gather from observing either the mundane events of the mortal world or the intrigues among the Immortals confirmed that conclusion. Rad and Vanya were sufficiently committed to their cause to keep Glantri and Heldann loyal to their cause, but the conviction that Thyatis was going to lose severely affected the morale of Thyatians and their subjects and allies. Thus, Ylaruam went to war with Thyatis, and Karameikos, Ochalea, and the Pearl Islands all distanced themselves from Thyatis. While Korotiku, the main Immortal revered in the Pearl Islands, favored the cause of Rad, he was not willing to sacrifice his Nuari followers (who would have been unable to do much to slow down the Alphatians anyway) for the little bit of time that would have bought for his allies. Even after the war it was next to impossible for Thyatians to view their future in a favorable light. While Alphatia proper had sunk beneath the waves, enough remained to pose a major threat to Thyatis proper -- the real question was which nation could reunify first. However, Thincol could not do that, as to all the world he seemed to be (as he indeed was) a dying man cursed by the Immortals. Not until he died and his son Eusebius succeeded him did Thyatis have any real chance of restoring Thyatis to its former glory -- and as of the end of 1016 AC it remains to be seen whether he will succeed in doing so. However, the broad support that Eusebius has received from other nations certainly suggests hope for reversing the Thyatian decline of the preceding years. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 02:51:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 17:39:01 Jenni A. M. Merrifield wrote: >The Stalker wrote: >> "The Calamity Star" >> >> The Prophecies of Jarrot the Mad. >> >[SNIP] > > Very cool. It isn't that easy to 'invent' Prophetic Quatrains, even when >you know what they really refer to. Oh, my, yes... tell me about it! If I'd known from the start I might not even have begun. And English isn't even my native language. > I'm impressed, even though I've never >read the plot for the WotI campaign (a promise made to someone else who owns >it, along with no desire to really use such a world shattering campaign). Thank you! And don't worry: Having seent he misinterpretations from my players I'm pretty sure that you won't spoil anything by reading these quatrains. As James Ruhland just said, it's really hard to decipher them even if you know the plot. Well, that was pretty much the whole point anyway, right ;) > > Please do send the rest. :-) I will once I finish it (I pretty stuck in quatrain 34 at the moment - I'll get it though, I'm much too stubbo... ahem, PERSISTENT not to). - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:15:18 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gee, what about all those Glantrian mages who've died in 'lab accidents'? ----- Original Message ----- : > : THe problem is that the only thing that seems to really qualify as Dark : Power attention getting is his betrayl and slaying of... damn it, the : mage fellow who helped start off Thyatis... and he was still around for : twenty years after that, and the Mists don't seem to generally have : delayed reactions... : : > I think if we looked through the modules & other materiels, : > we could : > probably find guys who "richly deserve" a "long" (read=permanent) : > vacation : > to the Domain of Dread. I'll have to think about that. I don't know : > much : > about Ravenloft (it being one of a few TSR campaign worlds I for : > some : > reason never really got involved in), but I might be able to find : > some : > really nasty dudes that belong there. : : Well, good luck. Maybe Baron Norlan from the Norwold modules, but he's : still around too... : : > Hey, how 'bout a Domain of Carnifex in Ravenloft? Perhaps : > it's the "other : > dimension" where their Castle (from Twilight's Calling) is stuck in, : > at : > least IYMU. : : Well, IMC Ravenloft is where the Outer Beings are, though the demiplane : the AD&D multiversers think is Ravenloft is just a gigantic gateway to : the Outer Being's prison, but anyway putting the Carnifex in with their : master's would defeat the point I think... : : Anyway, the clsest thing to a Ravenloft thingie that's happened in : "canon" Mystara is Ettienne d'Ambreville and the whole "Land of the : Mists" buisness (X2/MoA). : : : Aaron Nowack : "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." : http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ : : ________________________________________________________________ : YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! : Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! : Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: : http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. : : ******************************************************************** : The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp : Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp : To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM : with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:45:02 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Quick Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What was Corwyn Mauntes's class/level in the PWA's? Thanks. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:09:50 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Quick Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > What was Corwyn Mauntes's class/level in the PWA's? > He's a 6th level Thief. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:18:46 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Quick Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Corwin Mauntea: >From PWA 2: OD&D stats: T6; AC(0); hp 20 S13 I15 W10 D18 Co12 Ch11 >From PWA 3: AD&D stats T6; hp24 no AC given, Abilities same. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:18:41 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > as > of the end of 1016 AC it remains to be seen whether he will succeed in doing > so. However, the broad support that Eusebius has received from other nations > certainly suggests hope for reversing the Thyatian decline of the preceding > years. Technically, the 1016 PWA is not canonical. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:26:56 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Term for Mystara Rule Set MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-23 6:32:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, spymaster@PLANETFORTRESS.COM writes: << OD&D or BD&D are fine to use, I can't see why anyone has a problem with that. Noone still plays the archaic brown and white box rules do they? Therefore, creating a whole set of acronyms to describe that is redundant. >> While very few people play the oldest rules, people still do talk about them. And I must admit that on one occasion I lifted some material from the very oldest rules for one "home brew" game because I liked the idea of using d6s as much as possible. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:26:59 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >A long, long time ago, I was thinking about creating some Mystaran >Ravenloft domains. The main problem I ran into was that most of the >really evil Mystaran personalities end up Immortal, and aren't available. > The only one who dosen't is Hazulnuthram (sp?) but then he's in MoA and >isn't available either. Actually Halzunthram might work -- he only appears in dreams and so may "really" be elsewhere, such as in Ravenloft. Of course, nothing in the available material suggests that he was truly evil enough to qualify for Ravenloft -- conquering and then unsuccessfully suppressing a revolt in the region that would later become Glantri is about all he is recorded as doing in a "historical" sense. How about the last Nithian pharaoh? The Nithian Empire was unique in the negative attention that it attracted from the Immortals, with only the Carnifex receiving worse treatment. Maybe the dark lords of Ravenloft reached out and grabbed the court of the last Nithian pharaoh when he committed some ultimate act of blasphemous obscenity. The Immortals, shocked by this massive disappearance that they had nothing to do with, decided to suppress all memory of this event and in the process finished off the Nithian Empire and eliminated all mortal memory of it. Another possibility might be Hosadus, but what evil act could he yet commit that would be noticeably worse than anything he has done before? Detailing the Hulean culture for Ravenloft and working out the effects of the resulting power vacuum in the Mystaran Hule would both be interesting projects. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:37:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Houses of Darokin: Mauntea House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the first in a series of writeups of the Great Houses of Darokin, cerca 1000 AC. This one deals with the greatest of all Houses: Mauntea House, a name that for many is synonumous with the Republic of Darokin. A Brief History of Mauntea House: Mauntea House was established in 714 AC, during the reign of Santhral II, the Last King of Darokin. Already, the King was no more than a relic, and the Kingdom of Darokin was fragmentng into city-states. Mauntea House's first claim to fame was its masterful handling of the Akesoli-Akorros war following Santhral II's death and the official dissolution of the Kingdom of Darokin. Thomas Mauntea, then head of the family, played both cities against each other, selling weapons to both. When Akorros eventually truimphed, forcing Akesoli to cede territories along Lake Amorsak, both cities were desperatly in debt to Mauntea House. Mauntea House would later use this debt to stop a threatened war between Darokin and Akkoros, firmly establishing itself in Darokin's power stucture. Mauntea House was the de facto ruler of Darokin City by 927 AC, and it did a vast amount of trade with forgein powers, including Alfheim, Heldann, Rockhome, Soderfjord, and Thyatis. When the Great Houses met to discuss the Great Merger, there was only one logical person to lead the nation... Charles Mauntea. In hindsight, the leaders of the other Houses would regret not establishing a firm constitution then and there, but they made the foolish mistake of not doing so. In the six years of Charles's regin, he ruthelessly exploited his position, nearly bankrupting many of the Great Houses and actually bankrupting many minor ones. With no checks on his power, Charles could run rampant... and he did. Upon his death, the new Republic was ready to fragment. At the instigation of Corun House, Linton House was threatening to withdraw from the Merger, and with it would go most of the other Houses. Lydia Mauntea, Charles's widow, knew that something had to be done, as forgein powers were greedly awaiting the nation's collapse: Thyatis hoping to seize Darokinian assets in its territories, and Alphatia hoping to establish a vassal state to threaten Thyatis with. The humanoids of the Broken Lands were already sharpening their swords in anticipation of the bloodshed to come. So, Lydia, regretting what was to come, gave an order her reputation would never recover from. For one night, the streets of Darokin's cities ran red with blood, as assasians in the pay of Mauntea House struck, slaying the leaders of every major House and all of Mauntea's main enemies. The House most greiviousy hit was Corun House, with every person bearing the Corun name dying in a fire set at their mansion. It would be a minor branch of the family that would eventually emerge to once again take control of Corun House's assets. With the other Houses in disarray, Lydia unilateraly declared herself Chancellor of Darokin. By the time any other leaders could protest, troops in Mauntea colors were outside their homes and marching down the streets of the major cities. In 934 AC, Lydia called a Second Great Merchant's Council, and forced the other leaders to confirm her takeover. It would be over forty years before Mauntea House was trusted enough to even have a chance in the Chancellor elections, when Corwyn was elected. [The vote in the inner council to elect Corwyn was: Corwyn Mauntea: Mauntea, Corun, Pennydown, Franich Bertram Hallonica: Hallonica, Al-Azrad Lucius Linton: Linton, Toney, Umbarth] Mauntea House Assets Far too many to list here. Hundereds of caravans, warehouses all over the Known World, and more. Mauntea House Relations Al-Azrad: Neutral. The two house's buisnesses don't overlap, and neither is a threat to the other politically. Corun House: Friendly. Despite the incident during Lydia's takeover,these two houses have always complemented each other. Corun House is settled enough to not be a threat to Mauntea's trading, and far enough down the political chain to not be a threat politically. Franich House: Friendly. Franich did not suffer during Lydia's takeover, and owes its prominance partly due to that event. Hallonica House: Neutral verging on hostile. Corwyn Mauntea sueeded a Hallonica as Chancellor, and as such Hallonica is slightly hostile toward Mauntea. Linton House: Hostile. Linton has always been second to Mauntea, and the amount of hostility that has generated is astounding. Linton fierecely competes with Mauntea in the forgein markets as well. Pennydown House: Friendly. Pennydown often serves as a domestic outlet for Mauntea's forgein goods. Toney House: Neutral. Neither House is particuarly involved with the other, comercially or politically. Umbarth House: Neutral verging on hostile. An ally of Linton, Umbarth is slightly hostile to Mauntea. Mauntea House Personalities Corwyn Mauntea (6th/25th level thief/merchant, NG) Corwyn is the great-grandson of Charles and Lydia. He has spent much of his life trying to restore his house's honor from his great-grandparent's actions. He has sharp blue eyes which shine with intellegance, though his once black hair has turned gray. He has a piercing wit and is well suited to the job of leading Darokin into the new millenium. He is married and has two children. Allana Mauntea (0/10th level normal woman/merchant, N) Allana is Corwyn Mauntea's wife. Their marriage was a political one, but has deepened into true love. She has gray hair and green eyes. If a adventuring party is hired to work for Mauntea House, she is likely the one they speak to. Allana is quite popular in Darokin City society, and is in charge of organizing the annual Masked Ball. Charles Mauntea (4th/8th level fighter/merchant, NG) Charles is Corwyn and Allana's eldest child. He has brown hair and blue eyes, and is being groomed to be the next leader of Mauntea House. He is quite adventerous, and might join a party for a time. Ellisa Mauntea (5th/3rd level thief/merchant, CG) Ellissa is Corwyn and Allana's second child. She chose to train as a thief after her father. Fortunatly for Mautea House's fragile reputation, she was never caught. Since then, she has settled down, and is managing House Mauntea's assets in Thyatis. Jons Brandifirth (2nd/11th level fighter/merchant) Jon is a Senior Merchant at the Streel Bank, which is owned by Mauntea House. For more information, see Gaz11. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:41:23 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Quick Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:18:46 -0500 SteelAngel writes: > Corwin Mauntea: > > From PWA 2: OD&D stats: > > T6; AC(0); hp 20 > S13 I15 W10 D18 Co12 Ch11 > > From PWA 3: AD&D stats > > T6; hp24 > no AC given, > Abilities same. On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:09:50 -0600 James Ruhland writes: > > > > What was Corwyn Mauntes's class/level in the PWA's? > > > He's a 6th level Thief. Thanks to both of you. I'm sure you know why I asked now. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:36:11 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Technically, the 1016 PWA is not canonical. > I do think Herve' would want me to point out that it is *not* called a "PWA" - as a means of differentiating the "net almanac" from TSR Copywrited materiels (PWA, PWA II, PWA III, and JA) it is called the "Mystaran Almanac" or "MA". (Btw, it also clearly says on something like the first page that "this materiel is not endosed in any way by TSR," so I think in general it can be assumed that folks who have read the MAs know that they are technically not canonical. But I digress pedantically). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:27:06 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-23 10:39:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << (Btw, it also clearly says on something like the first page that "this materiel is not endosed in any way by TSR," so I think in general it can be assumed that folks who have read the MAs know that they are technically not canonical. But I digress pedantically). >> And just to make things more complicated, there is a chance that WotC may declare certain Net produced Mystara works (notably including the Net almanacs) as "canonical". It was no big deal back when WotC had dropped and almost completely forgotten about Mystara, but there is now a chance that some of the Net material may get an official blessing. As near as I can tell no such "official canon" declarations have yet been made, but we cannot completely dismiss the possibility. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:46:32 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: The Changing Face of Glantrian Polit In-Reply-To: <68.f1ae77.25baa7ad@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:26 AM 1/22/00 EST, you wrote: > >But there is another question that has not been addressed that threatens to >divide the d'Ambrevilles: the Sephora/Marais rivalry. The "nicer" Etienne >will not want to put too much pressure on Genevieve, especially if he is >still in love with her -- so he may prove totally ineffective in >influencing her for the better. Would Genevieve let her hatred of Malachie >so consume her that she openly deserts the d'Ambrevilles and sides with >Dolores, or would she simply become a pawn in Dolores's next scheme? That's a good question, and one I'm not sure where to place myself on. On the one hand, since it isn't exactly known about how sinister Dolores is, I could see Sephora allying with this (quite obviously) opponent of Malachie's. On the other hand, I'd say it depends more on not Etienne's influence (since he is still not known to have returned) but rather on what Sephora and Isidore's relationship is. If Isidore is closer to Malachie than Sephora, then Sephora would probably be feeling rather isolated from the House of Sylaire nowadays... and given the Isidore/Malachie/Werewolf connections, this could very much be the case. On the other hand, if Isidore doesn't have terribly good relations with Malachie (which could be the case- perhaps conflicting views on lycanthropy and who should be in charge), then I could see her being more strongly in favor of Sephora's charges and actions against Malachie, which means that Malachie really only has one ally he can definitively count on in the Council (Jaggar- and that only so long as their interests coincide). ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:04:16 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > And just to make things more complicated, there is a chance that WotC > may declare certain Net produced Mystara works (notably including the > Net almanacs) as "canonical". It was no big deal back when WotC had > dropped and almost completely forgotten about Mystara, but there is now > a chance that some of the Net material may get an official blessing. As > near as I can tell no such "official canon" declarations have yet been made, > but we cannot completely dismiss the possibility. That would be beyond a doubt the most stupid thing ever done. Have they done that with other OOP D&D campaign settings? IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:39:15 +0000 Reply-To: bing@iccom.com Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I was thinking about the current state of Aengmor (the colony) and thinking about it's future. Personally I think it is more interesting if Alfheim is *not* restored. Some possibilities: (1) Fire could ravage the tinder-dry forest. It could be a natural fire (started by lightning) or it could be arson, perhaps set by a bitter and deranged Alfheim elf. By this time next year, all that is left are charred stumps. (Alternately, the trees could slowly die and the forest recede, the fungus dies, and finally nothing remains but grass.) This leaves a arid wasteland filled with grass, cacti, and bandits. The shadow elves still live in tunnels beneath the region, though monsters have moved into the abadoned tunnels. The stone buildings of the shadow elves form the nucleus of trading posts and outlaw villages. Darokin has been unable to subdue the area, and some Ethengars have been crossing the mountains into the northern part of the plain, expanding their territory. Due to bandit activity, Selenica has become isolated and largely independent, and though still nominally Darokinian, has been flirting diplomatically with the Ylari and the Karameikans. There are frequent skirmishes between various factions: Darokinians, bandits, Ethengars, humanoids, Selenican patrols. (2) The evil magic spreads and strengthens, and prevents the disappearance of the forest. Monsters continue to move in, and even the Shadow Elves withdraw from the more wild areas. A powerful Black Hag moves into the eastern wood, supported by an army of goblins and ogres; she becomes known as the Witch of Aengmor. (3) The region dries out and the forest disappears as in (1). With the trees (and shade) gone, the shadow elves leave. Darokin claims the land and opens it for colonization; a few hardy souls move in. Then humanoids from the Dwarfgate Mountains begin crossing the plain and raiding Selenica and the settlers; Mealidor becomes a base for adventurers (hired by Darokin) to protect the settlers. One adventurer builds a castle (with Darokin's blessing) and begins to pacify the region. But the adventurer is Chaotic and has ulterior motives; he strengthens his power base and declares himself king of an independent country. Darokin has problems elsewhere and only mounts a halfhearted response. A new kingdom is born. (this is a little farfetched but would be a good adventure for a high level PC) Anyway, just some wild speculation on what *could* happen in the next decade or two. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:14:12 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Anyway, just some wild speculation on what *could* happen in the next > decade or two. > All cool ideas. #1 was probably my personal favorite, not because I'm entropic (ok, perhaps a little bit), but because IMO the whole nearby area could use some shaking up (ok, I guess WotI shook things up some, but lots of monsters got creamed in WotI, Thar et al). The area seems so settled, that one would create a huge "wild zone", a big "frontier area" smack in the middle of the KW. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:20:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit IronWolf wrote: > > David Knott wrote: > > > > And just to make things more complicated, there is a chance that WotC > > may declare certain Net produced Mystara works (notably including the > > Net almanacs) as "canonical". It was no big deal back when WotC had > > dropped and almost completely forgotten about Mystara, but there is now > > a chance that some of the Net material may get an official blessing. As > > near as I can tell no such "official canon" declarations have yet been made, > > but we cannot completely dismiss the possibility. > > That would be beyond a doubt the most stupid thing ever done. Have they done > that with other OOP D&D campaign settings? Yes - most notably Ravenloft. This fact about Mystara net products was mentioned as part of the announcement that Stan's Web site at Starflung was going to be the "official" Mystara Web Site. And, there was much debate, lamentations and pulling of hair about it at the time... so there's probably little reason to bring it all up again at this point. Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:10:27 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I KNEW IT! ALPHATIANS ARE NOT CHANGED! DRAW YOUR SWORDS, BALD LEGIONS OF THYATIS! CHARGE!!! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis > ehh... I think you mean BOLD. Reminds me of two of my funny misteaks in English: 1. The 27 SLUTS Morphail has, 2. Sinaria Verlien is not HAIRLESS, she has children... Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:12:07 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Site Update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more character added on my site - getting there, albeit slowly... http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/rmunch/boys.htm Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:32:43 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ���� ��� ha scritto: > > > I KNEW IT! ALPHATIANS ARE NOT CHANGED! > DRAW YOUR SWORDS, BALD LEGIONS OF THYATIS! > CHARGE!!! > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > > > ehh... I think you mean BOLD. Reminds me of two of my funny misteaks in English: > 1. The 27 SLUTS Morphail has, > 2. Sinaria Verlien is not HAIRLESS, she has children... Oh, yes. I meant BOLD, obviously...but who knows? Maybe the XXth Cohort is made only by over 60 with not so much...heir (obviously joking). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:32:38 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Stalker ha scritto: > -- > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:17:24 James Ruhland wrote: > >Well, I don't know what to say as far as comments except that it was > >interesting. I'm usually bad at commenting on such things - heck, I haven't > >even deciphered what all the quatrains were alluding to yet, but perhaps > >when I have I'll have more queries. In any case, don't let that stop you > >from finishing it. Will be waiting for the next section 8-). > > Thanks James - I *really* couldn't wait for someone to comment. > Naturally deciphering the quatrains *SHOULD* be hard - almost > impossible. In fact, though The Master of the Desert Nomads is a great and well-known threat IMC at the moment and one that the PCs are actually trying to combat, there is still one player IMC who is utterly convinced that 'The Lord from Beyond' is some ghost-lord who'll soon march all over Mystara's surface with his vast armies of undead. Naturally I haven't set him straight yet (he'll be *SO* disappointed) ;) > > Still, if you have the Timeline from WotI it's not really that difficult to decipher the whole thing. I pretty much take all the events in the order they are described there. > > But once I've done part two, I plan to make a little document which I think I'll call "Oh, the Wisdom of hindsight - interpretations of The Calamity Star by Master Terari". One clue though. The 'King Lion' I refer is naturally Stefan Karameikos. He's called so because IMC he used to be loosely connected to a group of adventurers called 'The Lions of Kerendas' in his younger days. If you look closely at my list of dead NPCs you'll actually find references to this group. > > Well, sorry for babbling on like this, gotta get back to writing some more quatrains to confuse my players with. > > - The Stalker > Well, get players confused on WotI is pretty easy...wihout a hint, just by telling them how the war goes on, my Darokinian party firmly believes that Alphatia and Hule are somewhat allied, that Alphatia paid Ethengar to attack Heldanna and that Thyatis will never lose, because they will surely manage to slay Alphatians when they get on the mainland. So wrong they are! And the dwarf is wondering what happened to Rockhome since 1006. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:46:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Poll Results: Preferred Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I want many more posts, guys, too few votes...and I ask especially LURKERS, but I could tell many more who didn't vote, also among persistant voters! The Results until now: VOTES 33 Glantri 23% Karameikos 18% Thyatis 15% Darokin 11% Alphatia 6% Hule 6% Ylaruam 6% Wendar 4,5% Bellayne 3% Rockhome 3% Alfheim 3% Northern Reaches 1,5% ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:00:55 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is interesting... but was it written in hindsight? Or is there more to come about the future? Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanvarro@pacific.net.ph ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:04:53 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Martin Mathes Subject: Re: Poll Results: Preferred Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I want many more posts, guys, too few votes...and I ask especially > LURKERS, but I could tell many more who didn't vote, also among > persistant voters! > > The Results until now: > > VOTES 33 > > Glantri 23% > Karameikos 18% > Thyatis 15% > Darokin 11% > Alphatia 6% > Hule 6% > Ylaruam 6% > Wendar 4,5% > Bellayne 3% > Rockhome 3% > Alfheim 3% > Northern Reaches 1,5% > You want it, you get it. Uh, I'm scared, no votes for the Five Shires? So I have to vote for them. If everybody live like the Hin, there would be a lot less problems in any world. As you called for votes for nations, I prefer the Hin. Actually I would prefer the Flying City and the Sky Gnomes. Martin ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:17:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Giovanni Porpora Subject: R: [MYSTARA] Poll Results: Preferred Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, ok Giulio, since my preferred one, Glantri, is winning, I'll vote for Norwold ;) Yes, I know I'm min-maxing(?) here. Bye Giovanni > I want many more posts, guys, too few votes...and I ask especially > LURKERS, but I could tell many more who didn't vote, also among > persistant voters! > > The Results until now: > > VOTES 33 > > Glantri 23% ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:57:12 -0500 Reply-To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) Great work, Guilio! Now we know the "truth" behind Stefan's actions. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 07:18:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Matthew Wang Subject: Savage Coast Ravenloft Domain? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii After purchasing Domains of Dread (The Ravenloft Sourcebook) a couple of months ago, I had discovered the online Savage Coast material, I immediately thought that the Red Curse and Ravenloft would be a great combination. Has anyone thought about the possibilities of a Savage Coast Domain in Ravenloft? There are a wealth of possibilites: 1) An Inheritor Lich, a Lich with the Red Curse, could run a swashbuckler domain with undead pirates and enslaved humans mining for cinaybral. 2) A powerful Orc Shaman from the Dark Jungle could rule a small Jungle island. 3) The Nimmerian Manscorpions would also be a great fit for Ravenloft. With they tatoos and masks, they provide some exotic horror to the Domain of Dread. I think they are some great possibilities in their and with almost no canon, there are really no limits on what we can think of. Matt Wang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:27:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Historical Dead NPCs of Mystara (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Hello to the GPD out there? Any takers in writing about dead = Glantrians? (As if writing about living and recently dead Glantrians weren't = time-consuming enough!) Well, besides the semi-dead people we have done, there are several ones = who are dated 1000, they could be "distinguished dead" by net-almanac = time. And besides, at the corrent rate the net-almanac is slaughtering = arch-mages, this list of dead people could grow at an alarming pace. But realy, if you want dead nobles, the GPD and Harri's lists are a very = good way to find some. Glantri (mainly thank's to Harri's efforts) has the most detailed = history and society on Mystara. And of course, as Kit said, in Glantri being dead doesn't mean you can't = have fun... Morphail (Muhahaha) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- = http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:43:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >How about the last Nithian pharaoh? The Nithian Empire was unique in = the negative attention that it attracted from the Immortals, with only the Carnifex receiving worse treatment. Maybe the dark lords of Ravenloft reached = out and grabbed the court of the last Nithian pharaoh when he committed some ultimate act of blasphemous obscenity. The Immortals, shocked by this massive disappearance that they had nothing to do with, decided to = suppress all memory of this event and in the process finished off the Nithian = Empire and >eliminated all mortal memory of it. I don't know much about the last Pharoh of Nithia, but if you check out = my "history"* part of the Deepreach gazateer (oh god, I know I should = update it ,but the lazyness...), you can learn about one of the first = evil pharohs, Shadla the Learned. She is one major badgirl and really Ravenloft matereal. *http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/history.html Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- = http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:14:19 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > So I have to vote for them. > If everybody live like the Hin, there would be a lot less problems in any > world. > True as far as it goes. And I'm not posting this response to pick on your selection (too each their own opinion, for sure). I'm mainly posting this because most of the other discussions have died or are dying. but when there are "a lot less problems" in Mystara there's, IMO, a lot less oportunity for adventure. The Shires are nice, tranquil, idyllic; there are no really major problems (but more later on this), and everyone gets along very well (there's no really significant inter-Shire's rivalry - oh, sure there are peaceful disagreements, but it's hard to make them fodder for adventure because the disagreements are handled in an agreeable fashion). Shires places are typically described as follows "This village is another place where halflings and elves dwell peacefully together. . ." (p.46). This means, for the most part, that to generate adventure in the Shires one has to import it from outside. Which is increasingly hard if the Black Eagle is gone, because the Shires borders two very friendly nations that the Hin are allied to. Of course, the Shires has Shireton Port, but it comes off seeming like a "problem" mainly because it's dirtier than other towns - all it needs is a good scrubbing. The port itself is described as ". . .clean and well - policed. . .", so it's already started. The Shires is a nice place to live (IRL), but one wouldn't want to adventure there. Of course their's Hin piracy, but this is mostly fodder for campaigns not set in the Shires - and not really for campaigns set in the nearby nations that the Hin have friendly relations with. Hin piracy isn't a "threat to the Shires" that adventurers based in the 5 Shires would go after. And to the extent to which PCs would *become* pirates, again that shows how in order to spark any adventure, it must be "externalized" from the Shires, since they aren't likely to raid places in the Shires or strike at Shires shipping (or the shipping of neighboring nations). I will say that only with regard to the Shires (and only at the pen of the author of the Shire's gaz) could kidnapping ladies be portrayed as making one lovable scamps instead of kidnappers. "She wanted it" - right. I doubt the activities of the pirates of Ne'er-do-Well or Terentias would, or should, be portrayed that way. But it goes along with the theme of the Shires, wherein nothing really bad ever happens to anyone. Again, we might find that admirable and wish that things IRL were so beatific, but without conflict where is the source of adventure? Anyhow, that's just my take. I could be wrong. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:51:04 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike & Rebecca Harvey wrote: > > I was thinking about the current state of Aengmor (the colony) and > thinking about it's future. Personally I think it is more interesting > if Alfheim is *not* restored. Some possibilities: > Another possibility: At some point in the future, someone (Al Kalim himself, in a future incarnation, perhaps) finds the way to fulfill the Desert Garden prophecy: just as the elves pulled the water out of Ylaruam centuries ago, enough weather magic could be gathered to restore the climatic conditions. Since Ilsundal has enough problems with the elves outside Aengmor and Rafiel is mostly ignorant of the nithian empire history, there are few adverse forces, while Al Kalim and Protius will support the attempt (and perhaps so will do Atzanteotl, for his own reasons). As rain is reduced in Aengmor, the land dries, and the dying trees cannot be supported anymore. In order to prevent the deforestation, which would prove fatal to the Shadow elven control of Aengmor, the Shadow elven mages are in need of another massive incantation. Unfortunately, Atzanteotl steps in once more, and corrupt shadow elves help him, persuading their collegues that the forest cannot be saved without extreme measures: with an enormous magical effort, the entire forest is petrified. The shadow elven wizards collapse from exaustion, and the weaker among them die. While Aengmor is deprived of mages, followers of Atzanteotl attack from Oenkmar. At this point, they conquer at least half of the forest, which becomes a battle field for the following decade. Meanwhile, the increased rains on the Alasiyan desert cause great transformations: the land is now able to support a population three times higher than those of the Emirates. There is a sudden influx of immigrants from bordering lands, as Al Kalim cause the Kin faction to fall from power (he needs the immigrants, now). Many nomads settle in now rich lands, and the Ylari culture evolves deeply. The underground city of Cynidicea is flooded, and as its population is forced to surface, the surface Cynidicea is rebuilt. As in other scenarios, Selenica is virtually insulated from Darokin, and it is probably destined to become the seventh emirate of Ylaruam. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:52:36 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Stefan, Dark King of Karameikos (very long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Aaron E Nowack wrote: > > On Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:42:30 +0100 Caroletti writes: > > King STEFAN KARAMEIKOS, the Dark Ruler of Traladara > > > > WARNING: I don�t want a million of posts that says how a stupid idiot > > imperialistic Thyatian and Karameikos-hater I am- I am NOT. It�s > > just an > > alternative view on things that could appeal to persons that like > > devious and sinister explanations to what�s happening in Mystara. It > > can > > be seen as a joke, as an adventure idea etc etc. > > > > ROTFL! A very amusing idea, and not only that but it could actually > _work_ as a campaign. Especially if the players have already played campaigns in Mystara, and know Stefan! -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:56:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.com:80) Subject: Re: The Calamity Star (part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:00:55 Francisco V. Navarro wrote: >It is interesting... but was it written in hindsight? Or is there more to >come about the future? I'm not so sure what you mean. The basic idea is that Jarrot the Mad made his predictions about The Calamity Star before or perhaps very close to the first millennium of the Alphatians. Reading the first quatrains, Alphatian aristocrats (i.e., spellcasters, mostly wizards) assumed in the common arrogance that Jarrot was talking about Alphatia's first millennium when he was, in fact, talking about the first millennium of Thyatis! That's the really cruel and bitter irony of the predictions because they could have been *SO* helpful to the Alphatians if only they hadn't dismissed them so soon. When did Jarrot write the prophecies? I intentionally left that vague, but it could have been no later than the first millennium of the Alphatians (AC 0), and probably a little earlier. I had an idea about Jarrot being banished to the Alphatian-controlled areas of Ylaruam at one time, because that would explain why the PCs might find them all over the Known World. Naturally there will be a part 2 with predictions that go all the way to the end of the war. Did Jarrot make predictions after that ? Perhaps - we'll have to wait and see (I have no plans for that), but I will write an interpretation of the quatrains once they are all done, probably in the voice of Master Terari (because having texts like that is always fun - besides, the DM can give those interpretations to the players once it's all over... It won't make a difference by then because WotI is over anyway). Eh, sorry for the length - got a bit carried away ;) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:47:24 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a project I've been tinkering on and of with, a little thing detailing a possible future for Mystara, everything seemed to be headed toward a lasting peace between the AE and SE. Then disaster struck. At some big event where all the major peace proponents were, a tremendous explosion occured wiping out all present. Both sides blamed the other, and all out war broke out, eventually drawing in all elves everywhere. By the as yet undetermined date for this project, elves are generally believed to be extinct due to this war. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:16:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Mystaran Immortals in Planescape? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi there everyone! I remember some time ago somebody said that there was a Planescape supplement that put Mystaran deities into the PS cosmology, and I'm now wondering what was its name. I have On Hallowed Ground and it's not there (it's basically a rewrite of the old Deities & Demigods, but much better) and the only other PS supplement I have is Warriors of Heaven, which incidentally has the complete list of powers and includes the Mystaran deities. Now I am wondering: is this the supplement that was been quoted in this forum or is there another one (more focused on the various powers and their portfolio - please don't tell me there's Wrath of the Immortals, I already have that)? Thanx for the info. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gilda.it/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:01:09 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Immortals of Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone out there thought about compiling/creating a list of Alphatian= Immortals? I mean Old World Alphatian Immortals- Immortals that were worshipped/followed before the Alphies ever arrived on Mystara and adopted/came into contact with Mystaran Immortals. I don't really know of any offhand. Razud, I believe, was mentioned as on= e of the Cypri people who became Immortal, but I think he's the only one that = has been mentioned who would have lived at the time of Old Alphatia. Neither Koryis nor Alphaks were known to the Alphatians, though Thanatos may have= been (he sponsored Alphaks, IIRC.) The same holds true for Palartarkan, Alphat= ia, and Talitha (I think that's her name- I may be thinking of Tarastia... no= , it's Talitha.) I'd say the "Venerable" Immortals were probably worshipped by the Alphies= (though under other names), and there's at least one other Immortal menti= oned as being Alphatian in a "canon" product- Kersey, from module M1: Into the= Maelstrom (she's the Alphatian/Mystaran version of Circe from the Odyssey= =2E) Leosus, King of the Winds (from the same module) is described as an Immor= tal being, but I don't think it explicitly says he's Immortal. So that leaves us with only this so far- Immortal Old Alphatian Name Interests Ixion (Ouranos?) Sun, Fire (patron of the Flaemish?) Thanatos (?) Death Odin (?) Wisdom Valerias (?) Love, Beauty Hel (?) Death, Reincarnation Razud Razud I forget... Korotiku (?) Luck, and... umm... Kersey Kersey Shapeshifters? Leosus(?) Leosus(?) Air, Wind? *Arachne Prime (?) Planar Spiders, Entropy (Note that Leosus did stay behind in Old Alphatia, so if he is an Immorta= l, perhaps he stayed behind from regret that his Followers of Air destroyed = the homeworld, and has abandoned them?) *I included Arachne Prime for the same reason I included Korotiku- that b= eing, that if (from evidence in M5: Talons of Night and the Red Steel set) the Aranea/Planar Spider races were as ancient as they seem to be, then they = may have come into contact with other civilizations (such as the Alphatians/C= ypri) during their extraplanar wanderings. Also, note that there would be Cypri Immortals as well as Alphatian Immortals... = Well, that's about it. Anyone want to help me flesh this out a bit? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:05:03 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Mystaran Immortals in Planescape?] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >DM wrote: >Hi there everyone! > >I remember some time ago somebody said that there was a Planescape >supplement that put Mystaran deities into the PS cosmology, and I'm now >wondering what was its name. I have On Hallowed Ground and it's not ther= e >(it's basically a rewrite of the old Deities & Demigods, but much better= ) >and the only other PS supplement I have is Warriors of Heaven, which >incidentally has the complete list of powers and includes the Mystaran >deities. Now I am wondering: is this the supplement that was been quoted= >in this forum or is there another one (more focused on the various powers >a= nd their portfolio - please don't tell me there's Wrath of the >Immortals, I= already have that)? It's Warriors of Heaven that you're looking for. Unfortunately, it only h= as some of the Immortals, and it got some of the power levels wrong (when I = asked about this on the Planescape board, the designer mentioned that he had be= en working from the Kingdom of Karameikos boxed set, and going by the descriptions of the Immortals and their levels of Influence there, so tha= t's why people such as Rad got higher listings than, say, his superior in the= Sphere of Energy Rathanos.) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:53:53 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Has anyone out there thought about compiling/creating a list of Alphatian Immortals? I mean Old World Alphatian Immortals- Immortals that were worshipped/followed before the Alphies ever arrived on Mystara and adopted/came into contact with Mystaran Immortals.<< Remember, the Alphatians don't worship/follow Immortals, they are worshiped/followed *BY* Immortals 8-)~ >>I'd say the "Venerable" Immortals were probably worshipped by the Alphies (though under other names), and there's at least one other Immortal mentioned as being Alphatian in a "canon" product- Kersey, from module M1: Into the Maelstrom (she's the Alphatian/Mystaran version of Circe from the Odyssey.) Leosus, King of the Winds (from the same module) is described as an Immortal being, but I don't think it explicitly says he's Immortal.<< IMO, Kersey comes off as either not-quite-an-Immortal (a Titan perhaps) OR as a relatively young one - not likely to have been an Immortal during the time of Old Alphatia. > So that leaves us with only this so far- > That's ok, see below. > Immortal Old Alphatian Name Interests > Ixion (Ouranos?) Sun, Fire (patron of the Flaemish?) > Thanatos (?) Death > Keep the Thanatos name. > Odin (?) Wisdom > IMO, Odin wouldn't have been known to the O-Alphers. He just doesn't seem to fit their style. Not that the Alphers wouldn't be interested in Wisdom (some of 'em, at least), but IMO he just doesn't mesh well with them because of the very different attitudes. > Valerias (?) Love, Beauty > Keep that name. > Hel (?) Death, Reincarnation > See above re. Odin for Hel; let Thanatos be the death guy. > Razud Razud I forget... > Self-reliance (in the sense of getting a whole lot of "lucky breaks" and other Immortal support). > Korotiku (?) Luck, and... umm... > Luck & Tricksterism; craftiness. Keep the Korotiku name. > Kersey Kersey Shapeshifters? > See above re. her. > Leosus(?) Leosus(?) Air, Wind? > Ok > *Arachne Prime (?) Planar Spiders, Entropy > I don't think she would have been known to the Alphers until they got to Mystara. > Also, note that there would be Cypri Immortals as well as Alphatian > Immortals... > I'm not sure there would be that many, though - it doesn't seem like the Alphatians paid that much attention to Immortals until after they got to Mystara, per DotE PGA - they all had "real" magic and only seemed to really turn to Immortals when they got to Mystara and some "unfortunates" who couldn't become mages turned to clericism as a way to overcome their "handicap". See also p.6 under "Fragmentation of Belief" - that seems to imply that the Alphers weren't familiar with most of the Immortals we would be, the Immortals who were interested in Mystara. If they were, they wouldn't have had to start studying them, since they'd already have knowlege of them (a tautology). So they'd either have a whole litany of other Immortals back on Old Alph that we wouldn't be aware of (except perhaps for Razud & Leosus) OR they would only have been aware of a subset of the Immortals we are familiar with (one other alternative is that they paid absolutely no attention to Immortals on Old Alphatia, didn't venerate them, save for the very few that got to high levels and stumbled upon the idea that they could become Immortals themselves - reach another level of power, sought out how, and gained a sponsor theirby). But again, the Immortals lavish a lot of favorable attention on the Alphatians not because the Alphatians are devout (they aren't), but because the Immortals* are devout Alpher-worshipers. 8-)~ *This is especially true of the Immortals of Game Design. > Well, that's about it. Anyone want to help me flesh this out a bit? > Sure, you left out: Siupudann, Immortal of Windfalls, Unearned Bounty/Prosperity, and Revisionism. An Immortal the Alphatians owe a lot to, who possibly recently re-discovered them (could have known of the Alphers on Old Alph but lost track of them for a couple millenia, then rediscovered their existance on Mystara). Seriously, though, I'd say the Alphers were only aware of a few Immortals before they got to Mystara; at least that's what DotE seems to indicate. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:10:16 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Actually, I've always thought of the place as a retirement home for adventurers. Sort of a Mystaran Florida. So... are there unscrupulous individuals taking advantage of aging adventurers? Retirement scams? Aging adventurers going insane? Or could we just do what Papa Tolkien did - set it up as an idyllic place that will get ravaged in an upcoming world-spanning war? For myself, I'd like to see the beginnings of a Known World / Savage Coast crossover war - instigated by the Hollow World folks... or something like that. ----- Original Message ----- : I will say that only with regard to the Shires (and only at the pen of the : author of the Shire's gaz) could kidnapping ladies be portrayed as making : one lovable scamps instead of kidnappers. "She wanted it" - right. I doubt : the activities of the pirates of Ne'er-do-Well or Terentias would, or : should, be portrayed that way. But it goes along with the theme of the : Shires, wherein nothing really bad ever happens to anyone. Again, we might : find that admirable and wish that things IRL were so beatific, but without : conflict where is the source of adventure? : Anyhow, that's just my take. I could be wrong. : : ******************************************************************** : The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp : Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp : To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM : with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:16:40 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Stefan's opposite number MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit By the same token, is there by chance an outwardly villainous character in Karameikos that would consequently arise in heroic opposition to him? (Yeah, the Black Eagle's a possibility, assuming he regained some measure of sanity and humanity, but I doubt it). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:28:14 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal should > have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of that > nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and recent plots > against the Alfheim elves. > Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in > disregarding events in Alfheim. > An ironic outcome for him, perhaps. But this was always odd - even if Ilsundal was busy, shouldn't Mealiden been "watching his back" as it were, protecting Ilsundal's interests in Alfheim while the boss was busy elsewhere? After all, that's supposedly Mealiden's only real job, protecting Ilsundal. He really dropped the ball there - one of the puzzling developments in WotI. > The major disadvatage that Thyatis faced is that many Immortals were > actively working against Thyatis but none were favoring Thyatis for its > own sake -- they all intended to use Thyatis to shield the Glantrian > Nucleus of the Spheres against Alphatia. > Rad and Vanya were sufficiently committed to their cause to keep > Glantri and Heldann loyal to their cause. . . > Another inexplicable thing - Glantri and Heldann were not "loyal to THEIR cause. . ." Glantri is/was a Rad-only enclave, neither Vanya nor any other Immortal had any significant influence there. Ditto Heldann re Rad - the HKs owed him no loyalty or reverence. This is another of the more inexplicable things about WotI - why would Vanya put the two areas where she is revered most strongly on the line for Rad? Why risk either or both of them getting cremed on his behalf (remember, IMO the strongest Anti-Glantri strategy for Alphatia is through Heldann, not Thyatis, in conjunction with the Ethengar as allies. But even so:) Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save Thyatis? Vanya had everything to lose their and nothing to gain by prolonging the struggle on Rad's/Glantri's behalf - she probably has more followers in Thyatis than in any other Mystaran nation, and since her followers tend to be militant types, they were the ones getting killed. She was sacrificing her base of worshipers, for no good reason. WotI certainly provides no real rationale for her fanatical devotion to Rad's cause. One can see, just barely, why Korotiku might support Rad (but his followers, in the Pearl Islands, bail on the whole project early on), and - again, with slightly but not much more rationale - why Rafiel, Ka, and Rathanos might (though Eiryndul is inexplicable, as is Asterius. Eiryndul has as much to lose from the abuse of the Radiance as Ilsundal does. Asterius has absolutely no dog in this fight whatsoever - they join Vanya in the "I gotta scratch my head as to what is going on here" category.) In some cases, no attempt is even made to try and explain why these Immortals support Rad, much less why they do so with such fierce fanaticism in open disregard of their own interests (getting their own followers slaughtered on Rad's behalf in exchange for nothing seems like the fast track to Immortal Fadeout). If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em posted, because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of Alphatia (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the Immortals, where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who are only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality of their own). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:52:33 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? Comments: To: ironwolf@ewa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. Personally. I choose not to play them for that very reason. I have done some research on Native Americans, but I had to stop because it was very emotionally involved process. This country has commited so many atrocities against these people, and has not really documented the truth in the history books that socialize young children today. I thought of some adventures, but I think that most players could not handle playing a role which might be considered "savage" by our cultural values. Some people I talked to could not even handle understanding that "Traldarans" are indeed not content with the matters on hand by the Thyatian invaders, even though Stefan might be in a more positive light than other Thyatians. For anyone wanting to deal with this aspect, I just ask that they do indeed study up on Native/Meso-Americans. One good book is "Native American Testimony" which is from commentary of the native people themselves. ciao, Joaquin -- On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:01:33 IronWolf wrote: >Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> >> I wonder what kinds of adventures folks have run for Atruaghin chars in >> their home land? Intertribal rivalries are obvious, but there doesn't >> seem much material to work with from my limited imagination perspective. >> The lack of adventures in the GAZ itself also proves limiting, as those >> samples usually give me better ideas for the feel of the land and what >> would work there. So, what all have you done with this land? > >Ugh... not much, myself. > >I don't know about anyone else from the U.S., but myself I would not feel >comfortable playing a character from the Atruaghin clans because I would fear >maligning Native Americans with cheesy cliche behavior. I know very few people >who wouldn't feel self-concious, and those that could get over it would probably >be viewed with disdain by his fellow players. > >If I was a munchkin hack-n-slasher who thought roleplaying was something >psychologists did, I'd probably avoid them due to their distain for metal >weapons, low 'kill' factor and all that. And anyone who played one anyway would >also be viewed likely as maligning Native Americans, portraying them as savages. > >Sheesh, just talking about it makes me feel guilty. > >IronWolf > >"It's Specularum, damn it!" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:57:10 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had hope that people stopped babbling over ODnD vs BDnD vs CDnD vs ADnD1 vs ADnD2 vs DnD3e vs GURPS vs FHero vs vs vs... Does this really matter? I'm more interested in campaign, stories, adventures, spells, ideas, etc. that can be used in any rule system people wish to use. I also really dislike it when people twist peoples messages and be abusive or inconsiderate because their perferred system is ODnD. Some people on the list were not even born when ODnD boxed sets were in print. Please stop or do not mail to the list anymore. Thank you... HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:22:34 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:28:14 -0600 James Ruhland writes: > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see > 'em posted, > because I can find no rime or reason; One thing to do is to throw away the idea of two monolithic groups. Let's see: Asterius: Is fascinated with technology, and as such wants to be able to study the Nucleus. Therefore, he ingratiates himself with Rad. He joins Ixion after the activation of the Doomsday weapon, because he does not want to see Great Rain of Fire Mark II. Eiryundal: Once Ilsundal starts fighting Rad, Eiryundal starts fighting Ilsundal. Eiryundal is _not_ allyed with Rad., it is merely an enemy of my enemy type buisness. He joins Ixion after the Week With No Magic. Ka: Ka is against the war, not for either side. Since Ixion is the attacker, he fights against Ixion in Pandius. If Rad started threatening Ixion, he would fight that too. When the Doomsday Weapon is activated, he joins Ixion. Korotiku: Is merely stirring things up. Snce his friends Eiryundal and Asterius are working with Rad, his "pranks" tend to hurt Ixion et al. Once he discovers the Brotherhood of the Shadow, he gets serious in working against them, and once the Doomsday Weapon is used he throws his support behind Ixion. Vanya: The big one. Part of this is "enemy of my enemy". Once Alphatia joins in, Thyatis will oppose it, Immortal intervention aside. Vanya follows along with this trend. As for her fanaticism, I say throw it into the pile of evidence that Thanatos has some sort of power over her. The whole thing becomes an excuse for an Immortal free-for-all basically. You'll also notice that Rad's "allies" start to abandon him in droves once the true dangers of the Nucleus are revealed. The only ones who stand by him are Rafiel, Rathanos, and the Brotherhood of the Shadow (who I think are being manipulated by Thanatos, but that's another story.) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 03:21:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, that's about it. Anyone want to help me flesh this out a bit? 1) Well, it may be a personal idea, but I have always played with Alphatian Immortals having names looking like RW Akkadian and Sumerian... Shamshu would be nice for Ixion, Mutu, Nergal or Erra for Thanatos, Inanna for Valerias, Athtaru for Ka, Kotharu for Korotiku... I can build a longer list.... 2) Oh, James, I think that O-Alphatians would have a big deal of Immortals, so many top level mages would surely seek immortality and some would succeed... it's just that just a few would be well-known, and perhaps some of them totally ignored... But, after O-A being destroyed, a few of them could take care of the exiles-in Mystara... and "appear" (for good or selfish reasons). 3) I agree with James in that Norse Immortals look kinda out of place... GAZ7 implies that norse Immortals form their own "private society" spanning different worlds linked by the World Ash... I doubt that O-A would be high in their priorities... 4) Thanks to the laws of paradox, Khoronus, Hierarch of Time, could be known in any culture or planet... it's a big figure and O-A should not have escaped him... 5) For the same reason you include Aranean immortals, you could include Immortals from Diaboli, O-A archmages would surely know the nightmare dimension. 6) Stingy thing: dragon rulers... should we assume that dragons are species unique to Mystara or should we include Dragon rulers, too?? Given that killing one ruler makes another one be created in due time, it could happen in any planet, not just M? I could see Alphatian names like Hedammu, Tiamat, Apshu, Dagon. That's all for now, Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:00:40 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI) In-Reply-To: <20000124.202235.-192153.1.anowack@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Aaron E Nowack wrote: > On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:28:14 -0600 James Ruhland > writes: > > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see > > 'em posted, > > because I can find no rime or reason; > > One thing to do is to throw away the idea of two monolithic groups. > > Let's see: > > Asterius: Is fascinated with technology, and as such wants to be able to > study the Nucleus. Therefore, he ingratiates himself with Rad. He joins > Ixion after the activation of the Doomsday weapon, because he does not > want to see Great Rain of Fire Mark II. > But isn't Asterius a guy from Blackmoor who rejected the technology of his time and took up the study of magic instead, after spending a period of time as a thief? John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:02:00 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia In-Reply-To: <20000125000109.19055.qmail@awcst094.netaddress.usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Immortal Old Alphatian Name Interests > > Ixion (Ouranos?) Sun, Fire (patron of the Flaemish?) Wrath of the Immortals says he is known as Solarios on 'other worlds', so perhaps they knew him by that name. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:34:45 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:00:40 -0600 Ranma Al'Thor writes: > On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Aaron E Nowack wrote: > > > On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:28:14 -0600 James Ruhland > > > writes: > > > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to > see > > > 'em posted, > > > because I can find no rime or reason; > > > > One thing to do is to throw away the idea of two monolithic > groups. > > > > Let's see: > > > > Asterius: Is fascinated with technology, and as such wants to be > able to > > study the Nucleus. Therefore, he ingratiates himself with Rad. > He joins > > Ixion after the activation of the Doomsday weapon, because he does > not > > want to see Great Rain of Fire Mark II. > > > But isn't Asterius a guy from Blackmoor who rejected the technology > of his > time and took up the study of magic instead, after spending a period > of > time as a thief? Grrk... there goes that part of my theory. Put Asterius back in the "scratch your head category." Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:56:15 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: LOTR site Comments: To: FIFAlover@aol.com, muse@cwia.com, suavecali@hotbot.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.theonering.com/ cool site for info on the upcoming movies in the LOTR series. interesting cast, i wonder who'll get to play Elrond . . . Enjoy! Meltheim the Shadowstalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:31:29 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just had an evil thought: What if some chaotic high level Master reached the conclusion (with some urging from an Entropic Immortal that he unknow- ingly serves) that the only way for the Hin to be safe is for them to control all of their neighbors? Furthermore, suppose that he is charismatic enough to sway most of the population of the Five Shires to his way of thinking? The result would shake up all of those nations that seem to have it too good, as Karameikos and Darokin would be torn by war and at least partially under the domination of hostile demi-humans, and the Five Shires would go from being the idyllic Hin homeland as presented in Gaz 8 to the center of the newest Great Evil Empire. And it would certainly give Mystara a unique twist -- what other setting has evil halflings intent on (and perhaps even capable of) world domination? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:31:37 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-24 3:42:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, anowack@JUNO.COM writes: << In a project I've been tinkering on and of with, a little thing detailing a possible future for Mystara, everything seemed to be headed toward a lasting peace between the AE and SE. Then disaster struck. At some big event where all the major peace proponents were, a tremendous explosion occured wiping out all present. Both sides blamed the other, and all out war broke out, eventually drawing in all elves everywhere. By the as yet undetermined date for this project, elves are generally believed to be extinct due to this war. >> That seems to be a tall order. Assuming that you have decided to disregard the Hollow World elves (who certainly will escape becoming involved), there are many groups of elves that you would have to draw into this war, including: Aquatic Elves Elves of Norwold Elves of Wendar and Denagoth Elves of the Savage Coast Elves of the Sylvan Realm Glantrian Elves (especially those of Belcadiz) Minrothad Elves (Water and Wood Elves) Callarii Elves of Karameikos Vyalia Elves of Thyatis Grakhalian Elves Killing off all of those elves (or even making it seem that they were all killed off) would seem to me to be a most formidable task. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:28:06 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmmm. I was under the impression that this was a sidebar where several of us were discussing our opinions and feelings about the chronology of our favorite game. I don't remember anyone expressing any value judgements about anyone else's opinions or preferred method of playing this game. No one has twisted any messages nor been abusive in this thread, and I'm sure that those of us involved in this discussion are as saddened by abusiveness as you are. I've only been reading this list for a few months, but I've never seen anyone but put down for liking ADnD. In fact, the only rudeness that I've witnessed in the past few months has been people calling ODnD players "bigots" or "abusive." I realize that these statements wouldn't be directed at all ODnD players, but they still make me sad to have to see, being a fan of all the rule systems. With all due respect, I'm sorry that you're not interested in this thread, but we all have the right to discuss what we want here, within the limits defined in the FAQ or Mission Statement or whatever that is that outlines what we can talk about here. I don't know much about HOTBOT.COM, but I'm using Juno, which is free and has a "Delete" button that I, personally, make extensive use of to avoid reading threads that just don't interest me. I'd be more than happy to point you to a website where you can download it free of charge if your email program doesn't seem to have a similiar feature. This has been an honest thread, with honest people expressing honest opinions. I truly apologize if it somehow offended anyone, but I don't think that participation in this thread should warrant being told to stop mailing to this list. As for the comment about people not having been born when the boxed sets came out ... you are absolutely correct! That's why this thread started, for people like that who haven't had the ability to watch the rule sets grow and mature. Some of us are hoping that through a discussion about this, younger gamers might become motivated to learn about the history of this game that we all love. That's all. We're not crusading here, I promise! John Hofmann On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:57:10 -0800 Darth Darknerd writes: > I had hope that people stopped babbling over ODnD vs BDnD vs CDnD vs > ADnD1 vs ADnD2 vs DnD3e vs GURPS vs FHero vs vs vs... > > Does this really matter? I'm more interested in campaign, stories, > adventures, spells, ideas, etc. that can be used in any rule system > people wish to use. > > I also really dislike it when people twist peoples messages and be > abusive or inconsiderate because their perferred system is ODnD. > Some people on the list were not even born when ODnD boxed sets were > in print. > > Please stop or do not mail to the list anymore. Thank you... > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:38:05 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 2) Oh, James, I think that O-Alphatians would have a big deal of Immortals, > so many top level mages would surely seek immortality and some would > succeed... > It would only matter to them then, and even if there are top level mages there aren't "so many" as a proportion of the population. Much is made of Alphatia having 1,000 36th level mages in the "present" (present being AC 1000 in this case), but what % is that of their population? Something like ..015% (yes, %: 0.00015 out of the whole). I did clearly state that the upper-level dudes would be mildly interested in the Immortals to the extent that the Immortal will help them gain Immortality. If you think the Alphers as a whole are devout followers of the Immortals, then more power to you. . .but you're playing the Alphatians differently than they're described in DotE (again, more power to you if you are, to each their own version). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:40:40 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/24/00 11:32:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << And it would certainly give Mystara a unique twist -- what other setting has evil halflings intent on (and perhaps even capable of) world domination?>> Hmmm... wasn't Athas (the Dark Sun world) once ruled by Halflings? Hmmmm... maybe Athas is Mystara far in the future after Mystara was conquered by the Hin of the Five Shires! Yikes! I guess that would answer the question about psionics in Mystara once and for all... :) Magister Mystaros Exalted Mage of Mystara Chronicler of Pandius All-around Party Animal ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:46:33 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia Comments: To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com In-Reply-To: <200001250056.TAA30884@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:53 PM 1/24/00 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: > >IMO, Kersey comes off as either not-quite-an-Immortal (a Titan perhaps) OR >as a relatively young one - not likely to have been an Immortal during the >time of Old Alphatia. That's true. She doesn't exactly seem the sort to be a sophisticated Immortal (though the entry says she's an Empyreal, I think...), but I was just looking for something. :) Maybe Kersey in M1 is just a more or less free willed and snotty avatar? Or maybe you're right and she didn't become Immortal during the time of Old Alphatia, or at least not before the planet was blown up... that could explain why she's still hanging out there. >> Immortal Old Alphatian Name Interests > >> Thanatos (?) Death >> >Keep the Thanatos name. You think? That might work... Thanatos was a Greek name, and M1 has a distinctly Greek flavor to it. I was looking for this page on Phoenician mythology that I found a few weeks ago (for Cypris Immortal inspiration) but darned if I can't find it now... >> Odin (?) Wisdom >> >IMO, Odin wouldn't have been known to the O-Alphers. He just doesn't seem >to fit their style. Not that the Alphers wouldn't be interested in Wisdom >(some of 'em, at least), but IMO he just doesn't mesh well with them >because of the very different attitudes. Maybe among the Cypri then? It does mention that the Cypri influence is what tempered the Alphatian aggression (at least for a little while). >> Valerias (?) Love, Beauty >> >Keep that name. 'Kay. >> Hel (?) Death, Reincarnation >> >See above re. Odin for Hel; let Thanatos be the death guy. I was thinking the same; again, I was just tossing out some ideas. AFAIK, these are really the "big Oldies" and the most likely to be known somewhere on Old Alphatia. (Yet see below for another idea...) >> Razud Razud I forget... >> >Self-reliance (in the sense of getting a whole lot of "lucky breaks" and >other Immortal support). That's right. I always confuse him with Rathanos... too many "R" Immortals... hey... wait- ARRRH! - the Immortal sponsor of Pirates? >> Korotiku (?) Luck, and... umm... >> >Luck & Tricksterism; craftiness. Keep the Korotiku name. 'Kay. >> Kersey Kersey Shapeshifters? >> >See above re. her. Just a "Post-Blowup" Alphatia Immortal then? (Ie, not known on Mystara?) Or are you more in favor of "Not Immortal?" >> *Arachne Prime (?) Planar Spiders, Entropy >> >I don't think she would have been known to the Alphers until they got to >Mystara. Possibly. I doubt any of them followed her (she's a little too self-interested) I mainly threw her out as one the Old Alphers might have been familiar with. Though they've probably long since forgotten her (as would be her wish. >I'm not sure there would be that many, though - it doesn't seem like the >Alphatians paid that much attention to Immortals until after they got to >Mystara, per DotE PGA - they all had "real" magic and only seemed to really >turn to Immortals when they got to Mystara and some "unfortunates" who >couldn't become mages turned to clericism as a way to overcome their >"handicap". See also p.6 under "Fragmentation of Belief" - that seems to >imply that the Alphers weren't familiar with most of the Immortals we would >be, the Immortals who were interested in Mystara. If they were, they >wouldn't have had to start studying them, since they'd already have >knowlege of them (a tautology). So they'd either have a whole litany of >other Immortals back on Old Alph that we wouldn't be aware of (except >perhaps for Razud & Leosus) OR they would only have been aware of a subset >of the Immortals we are familiar with (one other alternative is that they >paid absolutely no attention to Immortals on Old Alphatia, didn't venerate >them, save for the very few that got to high levels and stumbled upon the >idea that they could become Immortals themselves - reach another level of >power, sought out how, and gained a sponsor theirby). In conjunction with this thought, there don't seem to have been a lot of Immortals *period* before a certain point (right around the rise of Blackmoor, in fact.) I've got my own theories on this (connected to, in part, increased Immortal attention on the backwoods planet of Mystara following the flight there by Arachne-Prime and Korotiku following her... it's a bit more complex than that, and I'm sure just that little bit may be setting off some alarms, but that's near to the core of my theory). So, no, you're right- they probably didn't have many. I just wanted a few, and hopefully a couple that were native to Old Alphatia, rather than just the same old Immortals tossed up again... It's funny. It seems like, at one point, when the Immortals were first introduced, they started to show up in droves, and then at a certain point the attitude changed and it was like- "Wait- let's just say that guy is this guy by another name"- and new Immortals ceased to exist altogether... Next thing you know, it will turn out that *all* the Immortals are really just a scheme by Thanatos to maximize his worship, and that he is the only omnipotent force out there... Hey- that's not a bad idea! ;) >Sure, you left out: > Siupudann, Immortal of Windfalls, Unearned Bounty/Prosperity, and >Revisionism. An Immortal the Alphatians owe a lot to, who possibly recently >re-discovered them (could have known of the Alphers on Old Alph but lost >track of them for a couple millenia, then rediscovered their existance on >Mystara). He's also the Immortal of Attention Deficit Disorder, which explains why he ignores them for prolonged periods of time then rediscovers them. :) >Seriously, though, I'd say the Alphers were only aware of a few Immortals >before they got to Mystara; at least that's what DotE seems to indicate. That's probably true. Still, with only Razud to attest to the ascension process, it seems a *little* light. Maybe one or two other native (Cypri and/or Alphatian) Immortals of the Old World Alph? ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:45:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John R Hofmann meandered fecklessly... > I truly apologize if it somehow offended anyone, but I don't > think that participation in this thread should warrant being told to stop > mailing to this list. Don't worry, there is only one person whom you need heed when told to stop discussing a thread: me. And some of the WotC officials, I s'pose. Anyone else that tells you to stop talking about something is assuming a level of control they do not have (something I recommend against). If a person has a problem with a thread or post on this list and feels the thread should be stopped they should take it up with me. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:44:26 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The result would shake up all of those nations that seem to have it too good, > as Karameikos and Darokin would be torn by war and at least partially under > the domination of hostile demi-humans, > That'd be a riot. Would give a new meaning to the phrase "Hin Masters". 8-) I can see it now; "Do wat I tell yah, or I'll kneecap youse!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:52:01 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI Comments: To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com In-Reply-To: <200001250130.UAA12959@smtp6.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:28 PM 1/24/00 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: >> >> First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal >>should have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of >>that nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and >>recent plots against the Alfheim elves. >> Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in >> disregarding events in Alfheim. >> >An ironic outcome for him, perhaps. But this was always odd - even if >Ilsundal was busy, shouldn't Mealiden been "watching his back" as it were, >protecting Ilsundal's interests in Alfheim while the boss was busy >elsewhere? After all, that's supposedly Mealiden's only real job, >protecting Ilsundal. He really dropped the ball there - one of the puzzling >developments in WotI. He might possibly be vindictive, as well. Module CM7 says that Moorkroft Elvenbane was struck by a "divine curse" when he took over the Sylvan Realm... but it also says that the elves of that land were affected by the curse as well, for "attempting to save their lives rather than defend their holy land." Maybe the Alfheimers had done something to offend Ilsundal, and he chose to make them suffer some sort of penance by losing their land? (Assuming, of course, that he was the source of the above mentioned "divine curse". CM7 never states who laid the curse down.) > This is another of the more inexplicable things about WotI - why >would Vanya put the two areas where she is revered most strongly on the >line for Rad? Why risk either or both of them getting cremed on his behalf >(remember, IMO the strongest Anti-Glantri strategy for Alphatia is through >Heldann, not Thyatis, in conjunction with the Ethengar as allies. But even >so:) Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save >Thyatis? We can always go back to the old "Vanya is Thanatos" theory (that has its roots in the Princess Ark series, when Rolf gets sucked into the the planes of Entropy by Synn, but later turns up hale and hearty. And the whole Thanatos is patron of the Hattians, thingy from DotE.) ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:56:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI) In-Reply-To: <20000124.202235.-192153.1.anowack@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:22 PM 1/24/00 -0600, you wrote: > >Vanya: The big one. Part of this is "enemy of my enemy". Once Alphatia >joins in, Thyatis will oppose it, Immortal intervention aside. Vanya >follows along with this trend. As for her fanaticism, I say throw it >into the pile of evidence that Thanatos has some sort of power over her. The way you worded this got me to thinking... We know that the Immortals are not immune to "mortal" affections of sorts- Khoronus and Gaea; Ixion and Valerias; to name a few. What if Vanya has some sort of fascination with Thanatos? Not love, exactly, but when you think about it... What does Vanya most revere? Warfare and victory. And what comes- inevitably- with war? Death. Perhaps, in some, strange, bewildering way, Vanya is fascinated by Thanatos as the embodiment of Death and the outcome of war. Not love exactly, or infatuation, but... something... And thus, she works with Thanatos to an extent in things... but subtly, as suits her Dark Lord... Just a thought. ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 20:59:33 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia In-Reply-To: <200001250211.DAA20820@accesocero.es> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:21 AM 1/25/00 +0100, you wrote: > >2) Oh, James, I think that O-Alphatians would have a big deal of Immortals, >so many top level mages would surely seek immortality and some would >succeed... it's just that just a few would be well-known, and perhaps some >of them totally ignored... But, after O-A being destroyed, a few of them >could take care of the exiles-in Mystara... and "appear" (for good or >selfish reasons). That reminds me. I forgot to mention something I said I'd mention in my response to James' post. Remember those "forgotten" Immortals mentioned in WotI? Perhaps some of them were OA Immortals, who vanished when that planet was destroyed, or around then... Of course, that might not work, because presumably they wouldn't be completely forgotten, at least not by the old Immortals... >5) For the same reason you include Aranean immortals, you could include >Immortals from Diaboli, O-A archmages would surely know the nightmare >dimension. I just placed them there as Immortals that might have been known to OA's, but now that you mention it, that rationale would probably include the Nightmare Dimension Immortals- not that we know of many, aside from that one Diaboli... ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:07:21 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim,and WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > One thing to do is to throw away the idea of two monolithic groups. > Ok, so we ditch the idea that there is anything such as a "Fellowship of the Star". That does make some sense. > > Asterius: > > Grrk... there goes that part of my theory. Put Asterius back in the > "scratch your head category." > Yah, trying to come up with arguments for what the heck is the rationale behind these guys is harder than it looks, aint it? > > Eiryundal: Once Ilsundal starts fighting Rad, Eiryundal starts fighting > Ilsundal. Eiryundal is _not_ allyed with Rad., it is merely an enemy of > my enemy type buisness. He joins Ixion after the Week With No Magic. > Hmmmn. . .makes some sense, at least. > Ka: Ka is against the war, not for either side. Since Ixion is the > attacker, he fights against Ixion in Pandius. If Rad started threatening > Ixion, he would fight that too. When the Doomsday Weapon is activated, > he joins Ixion. > I donno, though: He's supposedly "for" Rad because protecting the "new style" Immortals is a big deal for him. Anyhow, his position doesn't really matter since he doesn't seem to do anything to really influence the "facts on the ground" that matter most to us, anyhow. Still, It's hard to explain (IMO) his vote for Rad against Ixion: especially since he must have some notion of what use of the Radience will do to various "magical" life forms (Ixion seems to, otherwise there would never have been a spat in the first place - Ixion is ticked because it threatens magic, Ka should be disturbed as to what that would mean for creatures who depend upon the prevalence of magic for their existance - faeriekind, etc. Would he be neutral in the face of that? "Make love, not war"? IMO he came down on the wrong side given his personality, at least in the vote - at that point Ixion wasn't threatening anyone's existance, not even Rad's - while the "experimentation" with the Radiance threatens some of Ka's major projects. . .) > Korotiku: Is merely stirring things up. Snce his friends Eiryundal and > Asterius are working with Rad, his "pranks" tend to hurt Ixion et al. > Once he discovers the Brotherhood of the Shadow, he gets serious in > working against them, and once the Doomsday Weapon is used he throws his > support behind Ixion. > Hmmmn. . .ok. But still doesn't explain the defection of the P.Iers. > Vanya: The big one. Part of this is "enemy of my enemy". Once Alphatia > joins in, Thyatis will oppose it, Immortal intervention aside. Vanya > follows along with this trend. As for her fanaticism, I say throw it > into the pile of evidence that Thanatos has some sort of power over her. > Yah; especially since she stirs Thyatis to action before Alphatia joins in. And in previous materiel Alphatia doesn't really seem like Vanya's *enemy* per se - just a foil for "her guys" to fight with and engage in conquests, etc. She's not the Immortal Patron of Anti-Alphatians (that's Alphaks), she's the patron of Conquest and Conquerers. During this war "her guys" immediately take a defensive stance - there is no real possibility of them gaining conquests by doing what they do (defend Glantri), so it still seems odd that she cares at all one way or the other. > The whole thing becomes an excuse for an Immortal free-for-all basically. > I will say your version makes more sense than the other version. > You'll also notice that Rad's "allies" start to abandon him in droves > once the true dangers of the Nucleus are revealed. The only ones who > stand by him are Rafiel, Rathanos, and the Brotherhood of the Shadow (who > I think are being manipulated by Thanatos, but that's another story.) > They deserve to be manipulated since they mostly come off looking foolish and ineffectual. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:23:15 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim,and WotI) Comments: To: James Ruhland In-Reply-To: <200001250509.AAA30299@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, James Ruhland wrote: > > > Ka: Ka is against the war, not for either side. Since Ixion is the > > attacker, he fights against Ixion in Pandius. If Rad started threatening > > Ixion, he would fight that too. When the Doomsday Weapon is activated, > > he joins Ixion. > > > I donno, though: He's supposedly "for" Rad because protecting the "new > style" Immortals is a big deal for him. Anyhow, his position doesn't really > matter since he doesn't seem to do anything to really influence the "facts > on the ground" that matter most to us, anyhow. Still, It's hard to explain > (IMO) his vote for Rad against Ixion: especially since he must have some > notion of what use of the Radience will do to various "magical" life forms > (Ixion seems to, otherwise there would never have been a spat in the first > place - Ixion is ticked because it threatens magic, Ka should be disturbed > as to what that would mean for creatures who depend upon the prevalence of > magic for their existance - faeriekind, etc. Would he be neutral in the Imagine what happens to the Hollow World when magic fails and their sun goes out. No way Ka would risk that...assuming Ka is convinced the Radiance will harm the magic of the world. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:02:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:31:37 EST David Knott writes: > In a message dated 2000-01-24 3:42:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > anowack@JUNO.COM writes: > > << In a project I've been tinkering on and of with, a little thing > detailing > a possible future for Mystara, everything seemed to be headed > toward a > lasting peace between the AE and SE. Then disaster struck. > > At some big event where all the major peace proponents were, a > tremendous > explosion occured wiping out all present. Both sides blamed the > other, > and all out war broke out, eventually drawing in all elves > everywhere. > > By the as yet undetermined date for this project, elves are > generally > believed to be extinct due to this war. >> > > That seems to be a tall order. Assuming that you have decided to > disregard > the Hollow World elves (who certainly will escape becoming > involved), there > are many groups of elves that you would have to draw into this war, > including: > > Aquatic Elves exterminated by devilfish during same period... > Elves of Norwold Ally with AE. > Elves of Wendar and Denagoth Wars with shadow lord ally with AE. > Elves of the Savage Coast Eventualy evolve into the self-perpetuating half-elf race. > Elves of the Sylvan Realm Not known to the KW (one thing that's going to happen is the trend of globalization will reverse) > Glantrian Elves (especially those of Belcadiz) Erewan ally with AE and are weakened by orc raids. don't know about Belcadiz yet. > Minrothad Elves (Water and Wood Elves) Don't know > Callarii Elves of Karameikos Will be caught up in Karameikan Civil war and Thyatian invasion. > Vyalia Elves of Thyatis Same as above > Grakhalian Elves Not known and already nearly wipedout by Master. > Killing off all of those elves (or even making it seem that they > were all > killed > off) would seem to me to be a most formidable task. Like I said they are _believed to be extinct to the people of the KW. A very few still exist. Also, this is just something I've been tinkering with. I'm not sure how it will turn out yet. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:29:54 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia Comments: To: Andrew Theisen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Maybe Kersey in M1 is just a more or less free willed and snotty avatar? Or > maybe you're right and she didn't become Immortal during the time of Old > Alphatia, or at least not before the planet was blown up... that could > explain why she's still hanging out there. > Could be either way; I guess it depends on what works best. > > Maybe among the Cypri then? It does mention that the Cypri influence is > what tempered the Alphatian aggression (at least for a little while). > Maybie. . .but I donno; he doesn't seem to quite fit with them, either. He's more of a "grim, somber Northman" Immortal than a Immortal that would fit with carefree Cypri. If you do have him in there, though, I'd use the Viuden name. > > That's right. I always confuse him with Rathanos... too many "R" > Immortals... hey... wait- > > ARRRH! - the Immortal sponsor of Pirates? > Pirates, perhaps. Probably more like swashbucklers, though. Pirates can be either nasty or of the "happy go lucky freebooter" variety. Swashbucking types might revere Rathanos. > > Just a "Post-Blowup" Alphatia Immortal then? (Ie, not known on Mystara?) Or > are you more in favor of "Not Immortal?" > More I think about it the more I think she makes a good Titan. Of what Immortal then becomes a question. But again, it could go either way depending on what fits best within what you're designing. > > Possibly. I doubt any of them followed her (she's a little too > self-interested) I mainly threw her out as one the Old Alphers might have > been familiar with. Though they've probably long since forgotten her (as > would be her wish. > See I tend to think that whatever the Alphers know or don't know about Arachne Prime they got through contact with the Thothians. But that's my interpretation. Perhaps A-Prime started meddling with the Thothians as a way to "get back" at the Alphatians for some slight, intended or not, she thinks they did to her in the past. > > In conjunction with this thought, there don't seem to have been a lot of > Immortals *period* before a certain point (right around the rise of > Blackmoor, in fact.) > That's true - it's either because there were a lot of Immortals who were "killed off" and don't exist in Mystara's "present" OR because, since it's devilishly hard to really kill any Immortal permanently, it makes sense that their ranks would have grown over time. I tend to think it might be a combination of both: There were some "Blackmoor era" Immortals who aren't around now, perhaps a half dozen or so, but they lost so many followers in the cataclysm and general disorder that followed it that they suffered "Immortal Fadeout" and are gone now. The survivors were the truely tough hombres (but perhaps *they* suffered a bit too in that upheaval, and as a result lost a lot of their memories - which is why the oldest ones never remember the time before they were Immortals any longer. Note also they would have had to spend lots of PPs to put the world right - not quite as many as they would have spended re-creating Alphatia and reviving 90% of its population: do a tally of how many PPs that costs some time, and let me know if you think they would have put forth the effort. Where was I? Oh, yah:) so some faded out, others almost did and lost some of their memory as a result. AND there weren't as many Immortals back then as their are now because the number of Immortals tends to grow over time due to the fact that, as hard as it is to reach Immortality, there are lots of potential candidates throughout history, and it's devilishly hard to exterminate an Immortal once he or she becomes one. > > It's funny. It seems like, at one point, when the Immortals were first > introduced, they started to show up in droves, and then at a certain point > the attitude changed and it was like- "Wait- let's just say that guy is > this guy by another name"- and new Immortals ceased to exist altogether... > Yes; but that's possibly due to the fact that many of the "younger" ones are still serving their apprenticeship and/or haven't built up a large enough band of followers to be noticed yet. That makes al-Kalim one of the exceptionally successful young Immortals, because he already has most of a country very devoted to him (exception: Emirate of Nithia. See Ylaruam Gaz.) > Next thing you know, it will turn out that *all* the Immortals are really > just a scheme by Thanatos to maximize his worship, and that he is the only > omnipotent force out there... Hey- that's not a bad idea! ;) > That's possibly true. Really horrible conspiracies are always fun. Thanatos comes off sounding almost as devious as Lofwyr in that theory. *_+ > > That's probably true. Still, with only Razud to attest to the ascension > process, it seems a *little* light. Maybe one or two other native (Cypri > and/or Alphatian) Immortals of the Old World Alph? > True. Sometime it might be fun to devote some effort to "fleshing out" the O-Alph countries that were descrived in M1. At least one of them seems like it would follow some Immortals (Delthar - you can't have Paladins without Immortals, at least not in the rules we know. The other nations might or might not be exceptionally interested in Immortals, but Delthar seems to have developed into something of a benign theocracy) - those places might follow Immortals unknown on Mystara. Throw in Razud for kicks, and a couple others, and one or two "new" (or at least unknown on Mystara) Immortals, and that's a pretty good pantheon for a place that seems to have a population of under 500,000 (just going by the figs for the countries in M1). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:38:16 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Maybe the Alfheimers had done something to offend Ilsundal, and he chose to > make them suffer some sort of penance by losing their land? > And then they're forced to wander the wilderness until they redeem themselves. Makes some sense. I wonder what it could have been that they did, though? We should come up with theories. > We can always go back to the old "Vanya is Thanatos" theory (that has its > roots in the Princess Ark series, when Rolf gets sucked into the the planes > of Entropy by Synn, but later turns up hale and hearty. And the whole > Thanatos is patron of the Hattians, thingy from DotE.) > I've said it before and will say it again: that makes a lot more sense than the "Vanya: Patron of Liberation Theology" interpretation of her faith/following, which turns everything about her from the published materiels on its head. Her as an Avatar of T-Bone is so fun I'll have to use it next time I have a Mystara campaign. The idea that she's somehow facinated with Thantos, and conciously or unconciously furthers his aims sometimes, is also interesting. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:57:09 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-24 11:42:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: << That's true. She doesn't exactly seem the sort to be a sophisticated Immortal (though the entry says she's an Empyreal, I think...), but I was just looking for something. :) Maybe Kersey in M1 is just a more or less free willed and snotty avatar? Or maybe you're right and she didn't become Immortal during the time of Old Alphatia, or at least not before the planet was blown up... that could explain why she's still hanging out there. >> FYI -- For more information on Kersey, look up "Circe" in any reference work for Greek mythology. From such sources I would suggest that Kersey is probably a being of Exalted (i.e., intermediate between mortal and Immortal( status. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:53:04 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Hello, I'm back... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, all. I have returned from my three year(!) hyatis from this list and from Mystara. I am opening a Mystara campaign in my new role playing game Borigon. It will be ready in about a month and will be set in Karameikos. I expect to be posting here occasionally with canonical style articles about places, people, things and such. For those of you who do not know, I ran a Mystara game from around 1984 to 1998. I have also developed my own role playing system. I am now converting Karameikos over to it, and I might say it is working very well. Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on martial arts systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I guess that's about it for now. Cheers, George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:18:42 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia Comments: To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com In-Reply-To: <200001250532.AAA15237@smtp7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:29 PM 1/24/00 -0600, James Ruhland wrote: >> >> ARRRH! - the Immortal sponsor of Pirates? >> >Pirates, perhaps. Probably more like swashbucklers, though. Pirates can be >either nasty or of the "happy go lucky freebooter" variety. Swashbucking >types might revere Rathanos. Sorry. Meant that as a joke. A new Immortal named Arrh- the Immortal Patron of Pirates. :) >> In conjunction with this thought, there don't seem to have been a lot of >> Immortals *period* before a certain point (right around the rise of >> Blackmoor, in fact.) >> >That's true - it's either because there were a lot of Immortals who were >"killed off" and don't exist in Mystara's "present" OR because, since it's >devilishly hard to really kill any Immortal permanently, it makes sense >that their ranks would have grown over time. I see it primarily as a sudden interest in the world of Mystara by the Immortals that be (er, were, er... whatever) resulted in more interaction between the mortals and Immortals, with a corresponding "jump" in the available patronage and assistance in ascendance to Immortality. If you look at it, there seems to be an almost geometric rise- few pre-Blackmoorian Immortals, then several Immortals concurrent with Blackmoor, then the rates tend to continue to rise (as more sponsors become available, and more Immortals meddle in the world). There seems to be a dearth of Immortals arising from the Nithian period- perhaps intentionally, as a result of the Immortals snubbing those people. >Yes; but that's possibly due to the fact that many of the "younger" ones >are still serving their apprenticeship and/or haven't built up a large >enough band of followers to be noticed yet. That makes al-Kalim one of the >exceptionally successful young Immortals, because he already has most of a >country very devoted to him (exception: Emirate of Nithia. See Ylaruam >Gaz.) I've got some thoughts on that Al-Kalim thing I'll have to post one of these days (need to get it in a coherent form). I'll try and finish it up tomorrow... >True. Sometime it might be fun to devote some effort to "fleshing out" the >O-Alph countries that were descrived in M1. At least one of them seems like >it would follow some Immortals (Delthar - you can't have Paladins without >Immortals, at least not in the rules we know. The other nations might or >might not be exceptionally interested in Immortals, but Delthar seems to >have developed into something of a benign theocracy) I started a bit on this once upon a time too. Actually, I'd hoped that some elements of these OA nations might have spilled over (Randel strikes me as a perfect place for those Deltharans to have founded) but as yet they don't seem to have made the transition... ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:18:07 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim,and WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 12:13:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Yah; especially since she stirs Thyatis to action before Alphatia joins in. And in previous materiel Alphatia doesn't really seem like Vanya's *enemy* per se - just a foil for "her guys" to fight with and engage in conquests, etc. She's not the Immortal Patron of Anti-Alphatians (that's Alphaks), she's the patron of Conquest and Conquerers. During this war "her guys" immediately take a defensive stance - there is no real possibility of them gaining conquests by doing what they do (defend Glantri), so it still seems odd that she cares at all one way or the other. >> Okay, how's this: Haldemar's previous adventures were sufficient to make her hostile to Alphatia. As for Thyatis, she is not at all adverse to giving that empire a thorough shaking up, as her followers are definitely NOT the ones on top there. So she has her Heldannic Knight followers boldly stand up to the big bad Alphatians -- but she also arranges things so that Thincol draws most of the wrath of Alphatia down on himself. While it is quite true that the Heldannic Knights suffer quite severely from the plague and other calamities during WotI, it is clear that Vanya devotes far more effort to saving them than to doing anything for Thyatis. And the later almanacs show that she was quite successful in her plots, as the Heldannic Knights remain a force to be reckoned with and the Thyatian Empire is severely weakened -- perhaps even to the point that her Hattian followers have a realistic chance of overthrowing Eusebius and taking over the Thyatian Empire. Now -- do you still think Vanya was an idiot in WotI? By her very nature she favors violent conflict -- and we all know that those who get involved in violent conflict tend to be bloodied by it -- but all in all her followers fared well and have the potential to expand their influence in the post-WotI era. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:27:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Ruhland ha scritto: > > > > First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal > should > > have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of that > > nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and recent > plots > > against the Alfheim elves. > > Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in > > disregarding events in Alfheim. > > Hyper Snipping > Snip snip snip > > Vanya put the two areas where she is revered most strongly on the line for > Rad? Why risk either or both of them getting cremed on his behalf > (remember, IMO the strongest Anti-Glantri strategy for Alphatia is through > Heldann, not Thyatis, in conjunction with the Ethengar as allies. But even > so:) Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save > Thyatis? Vanya had everything to lose their and nothing to gain by > prolonging the struggle on Rad's/Glantri's behalf - she probably has more > followers in Thyatis than in any other Mystaran nation, and since her > followers tend to be militant types, they were the ones getting killed. She > was sacrificing her base of worshipers, for no good reason. WotI certainly > provides no real rationale for her fanatical devotion to Rad's cause. One > can see, just barely, why Korotiku might support Rad (but his followers, in > the Pearl Islands, bail on the whole project early on), and - again, with > slightly but not much more rationale - why Rafiel, Ka, and Rathanos might > (though Eiryndul is inexplicable, as is Asterius. Eiryndul has as much to > lose from the abuse of the Radiance as Ilsundal does. Asterius has > absolutely no dog in this fight whatsoever - they join Vanya in the "I > gotta scratch my head as to what is going on here" category.) In some > cases, no attempt is even made to try and explain why these Immortals > support Rad, much less why they do so with such fierce fanaticism in open > disregard of their own interests (getting their own followers slaughtered > on Rad's behalf in exchange for nothing seems like the fast track to > Immortal Fadeout). > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em posted, > because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for > Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and > veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of Alphatia > (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the Immortals, > where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who are > only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality of I think WotI's adventure book is interesting, but it's not well developed. It could have been done a million times better. Ilsundal, as you said, results as a complete idiot; and no reason can be given for so many Immortals sponsoring Rad. If I had written the story, Rad would not have had 3 allies, and thus the thing ends. No Wrath of the Immortals. BUT, we can still have a major war going on with similar results without involving them...I really think that while a poor sod (was it Aaron Allston?) was preparing a major war in Mystara to create havoc and confusion, TSR went to him and said: "Hey, Aaron, you gonna put in your adventure a lot of Immortals. Why? Because you must make an Immortal Rules Book revising the ol' Gold Box for the Rules Cyclopedia." And it seems he didn't know how to do. I think I will soon re-write all the motivations of the WotI, stripping it of, I hope, most of the logical incongruences. Then I'll post it Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:41:01 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Antonio=20L=F3pez?= Subject: Re: Poll Results: Preferred Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I want many more posts, guys, too few votes...and I >ask especially >LURKERS, but I could tell many more who didn't vote, >also among >persistant voters! I vote Nithia (if still exits). BTW, where is the best URL with Nithia stuff? Antonio L�pez __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:17:59 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >the > newest Great Evil Empire. And it would certainly give Mystara a unique twist > -- what other setting has evil halflings intent on (and perhaps even capable > of) > world domination? That would be the coolest! Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Lord Ludwig, there are some ambassadors here to see you..." --perhaps the last thing Ludwig von Hendriks "The Black Eagle" ever heard, before he was blasted out of existence by some hin magic. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:26:25 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Stefan's opposite number MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander Osias > By the same token, is there by chance an outwardly villainous character in > Karameikos that would consequently arise in heroic opposition to him? > (Yeah, the Black Eagle's a possibility, assuming he regained some measure of > sanity and humanity, but I doubt it). Au contraire, maybe that's why Stefan kept stringing along ol' cuzin Ludwig. The Black Eagle made Stefan look good! Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Evil-Good-Right-Wrong. Those Karameikans can't tell one from another. Here in Glantri we do! That's why he's our national hero!" --Prinz Jaggar von Drachefels, about the man who saved his life. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:30:27 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wasn't Ssu-Ma an Alphatian Immortal? I don't really know. Maybe he's not Old Alphatia. Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:03:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Hello, I'm back... In-Reply-To: <003d01bf66f8$735a8d20$359cfea9@wizard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Welcome back! > Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on martial arts > systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I guess > that's about it for now. Were you the one who did all that martial arts/Spheres/Elements-stuff? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:11:38 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI In-Reply-To: <388D5E85.DC0EA037@tin.it>; from Scarole@TIN.IT on Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:27:49AM +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 09:27:49AM +0100, Caroletti wrote: > > I think WotI's adventure book is interesting, but it's not well developed. > It could have been done a million times better. Ilsundal, as you said, results > as a complete idiot; and no reason can be given for so many Immortals > sponsoring Rad. If I had written the story, Rad would not have had 3 allies, > and thus the thing ends. > > I think I will soon re-write all the motivations of the WotI, stripping it of, > I hope, most of the logical incongruences. Then I'll post it Go for it, David Knott did an excellent alternative WotI available at http://dnd.starflung.com/alt_woti.html I'd love to see some other interpretations! My own take on the war was that the allies behind Rad were more interested in shaking up the immortal power structure than anything else. That's why the likes of Asterius/Eiryndul joined. While Ka has invested a huge amount in the Hollow World it may be possible to move the Hollow World creatures/Magical creatures of Mystara somewhere else - there's an infinite number of planes out there and only one Radiance. A lot of the immortals saw the conflict as a civil war amongst Energy's immortals and were only too glad to help bring it down a peg or two (which involved fighting against Ixion rather than Rad). The Fall of Alfheim is seen as Ilsundal slipping up, but there's only so much an Immortal can do without interfering on the Prime Plane. The way I had it, he *was* involved with the war, but couldn't really do much once the magics had started corrupting the trees of life (it was all done by mortals). Well, couldn't do enough I should perhaps say. That still leaves the bizarre desicion of Vanya to keep fighting when it was obvious she was going to lose. Still not too sure about that one myself, perhaps she knew about the Doomsday Weapon and figured that it would nullify Alphatia once and for all which would give Thyatis a huge advantage. Not sure about that one though, there's many arguments that could be made against it. gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:16:12 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: <200001240108.RAA29281@smtp.zzz.com>; from bing@iccom.com on Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 05:09:14PM +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sun, Jan 23, 2000 at 05:09:14PM +0000, Mike & Rebecca Harvey wrote: > Anyway I interpreted this as a bleak, foggy plateau inhabited by > barbarian clans of the "Conan" variety. They lived in small city > states, carried around giant two-handed swords, and fought > incessantly, pausing only for occasional raids on the borders of > Darokin. I quite like this idea, I think I'll use it instead of the official setting. This one fits more into the known world style I reckon. I really disliked the way it felt that the Atruaghin Clans should be in the Hollow World. There was mention of cultural weapons and the way they wouldn't adapt anything from Darokin. This sounds very Hollow Worldy and very un-american-indian, so I'm not sure why it was in there. gordon [The Native Americans managed to adapt horses and guns really quite quickly irl, so what's majorly different about the AC? ] ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:27:01 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 5:35:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, fanavarro@PACIFIC.NET.PH writes: << Wasn't Ssu-Ma an Alphatian Immortal? I don't really know. Maybe he's not Old Alphatia. >> I would interpret him as being of Ochalean origin. Of course, from there you could trace his origin back to either Skothar or the Cypri of Old Alphatia. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:26:59 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 6:16:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, gmcc@ESATCLEAR.IE writes: << I really disliked the way it felt that the Atruaghin Clans should be in the Hollow World. There was mention of cultural weapons and the way they wouldn't adapt anything from Darokin. This sounds very Hollow Worldy and very un-american-indian, so I'm not sure why it was in there. >> The only explanation I can come up with (and a weak one at that) is that the Immortal Atruaghin was himself born in the Hollow World. Maybe he imposed his own cultural bias on his followers? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:59:02 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >I don't really know of any offhand. Razud, I believe, was mentioned as = one of the Cypri people who became Immortal, but I think he's the only one that = has been mentioned who would have lived at the time of Old Alphatia. Neither Koryis nor Alphaks were known to the Alphatians, though Thanatos may = have been (he sponsored Alphaks, IIRC.) The same holds true for Palartarkan, = Alphatia, and Talitha (I think that's her name- I may be thinking of Tarastia... = no, >it's Talitha.) Razud was an immortal of the Cypri civilaization long before the = Alphatians concured the Cypri (HW boxed set). Koryis was in the midle of = his quest during Landfall, so you are right as to not include him. = Alphaks is Koryis contemporary. Palatakran and Alphatia came later. >I'd say the "Venerable" Immortals were probably worshipped by the = Alphies (though under other names), and there's at least one other Immortal = mentioned as being Alphatian in a "canon" product- Kersey, from module M1: Into = the Maelstrom (she's the Alphatian/Mystaran version of Circe from the = Odyssey.) Leosus, King of the Winds (from the same module) is described as an = Immortal >being, but I don't think it explicitly says he's Immortal. Yes, IMC the ancient hirarchs are a bit beyond "immortal" status. All of = the ellemental (not Ellementals) beings described in canon could have = been worshiped in old Alphatia (Valerias, Ixion, Odin, Hel, Thanatos, = Terra, Korotiko... maybe Faunus). ON the other hand if you decide that immortals are world- specific, you = can make new immortals for the Old Alphatian planet. >Immortal Old Alphatian Name Interests >Ixion (Ouranos?) Sun, Fire (patron of the Flaemish?) I would say no and no. Ouranos was the ancient greek god of the sky, = father of the Titans and all that lived. Ixion is a greek immortal two = (though not as powerful or fameous) so I don't think it will be wise to = give those two names to the same immortal. About the Fleams patronship. I don't think it sits well. Rathanos could = be a better patron for the Fleams as they are today. Although, Ixion did = sponsor some weird cultures in his time (Azcans, Oltecs, Endukes, Savage = baronies.. and lots more). >Thanatos (?) Death Odin (?) Wisdom Valerias (?) Love, Beauty Hel (?) Death, Reincarnation >Razud Razud I forget... Alphatians, "helping the self sufficient" >Korotiku (?) Luck, and... umm... Mischief, thinking. I think Liuck belogs to some other immortal (maybe = non canon). >Kersey Kersey Shapeshifters? Beats me. >Leosus(?) Leosus(?) Air, Wind? Never heard of him. >Also, note that there would be Cypri Immortals as well as Alphatian Immortals...=20 It is implied by the text that Razud WAS the immortal of the Cypri, and = was absoebed into the Alphatian pantheon. Hope this helps. Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- = http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:38:01 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Agathokles wrote: >Shadow elven mages are in need of another massive incantation. Unfortunately, Atzanteotl steps in once more, and corrupt shadow elves help him, persuading their collegues that the forest cannot be saved without extreme measures: with an enormous magical effort, the entire forest is petrified. The shadow elven wizards collapse from exaustion, and the weaker among them die. While Aengmor is deprived of mages, followers of Atzanteotl attack from Oenkmar. At this point, they conquer at least half of the forest, which becomes a battle field for the following decade.< I like this idea! Of course it only makes sense that the shadow elves would try to petrify the forest, as stone and earth are more familiar to them than are trees and grass. I'm not quite sure that Atzanteotle needs to be the cause of this. What does he have to gain (unless his plan was to give the SE a spell which would require the life of the casting mage, thereby eliminating compitition for his Shattenalfen followers). Anyway this could be a great source of conflict between the Alfheimers who were invited back to try and save the forest, and the SE who just plain have given up. Here is an interesting question. What would happen to the Trees of Life? They are artifacts, so they souldn't be affected by mortal magic (and therefore would not be petrified). I wonder if the SE did turn all of the oaks to stone, would there be just enough water to keep only the ToLs alive? Perhaps the ToLs would become patches of green inside of a "grey" sea of petrified trees.? Just some thoughts. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:04:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Emperor Porphyrogenitus Subject: Immortal Sides in WotI > > Okay, how's this: Haldemar's previous adventures were sufficient to > make her hostile to Alphatia. > Seems sort of a weak reason - if the rather minor antics of some itinerants were enough to tick off an Immortal on a grand scale then they'd be flying off the handle all the time. > > them than to doing anything for Thyatis. And the later almanacs show that > she was quite successful in her plots, > Actually, that's the plot of the Immortal Siupudann which weakens Thyatis. > Now -- do you still think Vanya was an idiot in WotI? > Yah - I'm still not buying it. Seems a rather weak reason for her to get her followers killed off, doesn't really explain why the Immortal Patron of Conquest would devote a lot of time to defending Glantri (and not even attempting any conquests). . .nope; no cigar. 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:24:59 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James Ruhland writes: >> The major disadvatage that Thyatis faced is that many Immortals were > actively working against Thyatis but none were favoring Thyatis for its > own sake -- they all intended to use Thyatis to shield the Glantrian > Nucleus of the Spheres against Alphatia. > Rad and Vanya were sufficiently committed to their cause to keep > Glantri and Heldann loyal to their cause. . . > Another inexplicable thing - Glantri and Heldann were not "loyal to THEIR cause. . ." Glantri is/was a Rad-only enclave, neither Vanya nor any other Immortal had any significant influence there. Ditto Heldann re Rad - the HKs owed him no loyalty or reverence.< Well, here is something that I have been wanting to say for quite a while. Let's assume that all of the immortals up in Pandius are forced to choose sides (either side with Rad or with Ixion). OK. I can buy this. Here is what I can't buy: Let's say that a particular immortal (Vanya is a good example here) sides with Rad. It does not necessarily follow that her followers must side with Glantri. These are immortals we are dealing with here. They have (or should have) plots within plots within plots. Couldn't Vanya have manipulated her followers into benefitting the Rad alliance without having them "sign" some worthless allaince/peace treaty with Glantri. Take the HKs for example. They are conquerers. Vanya could have simply directed them to attack weakened Alphatian countries along the Isle of Dawn (and no treaty with Glantri is needd to do this!). I admit that the HKs probably would have behaved over-zealously and conquered some Thyatian colonies as well, but this is really a minor inconvenience for Vanya ( if that). I mean she is the patroness of battles. If her followers fight battles, that should increase her standing. Fighting against fellow followers may be inefficient for the Rad-Ixion affair, but for Vanya this shouldn't cause a big problem. Likewise Glantri should not have to lend support to the HKs in any way. This way the actions of Glantri and the HKs can be explained as unrealted events driven by two or more immortals with different agendas, but fighting for the same (temporary) cause. [I know this is not how things happened, but shouldn't it be?] Another immortal siding with Rad was Rafiel. It is no surprise that he should direct his followers to take over the surface of Alfheim. This has been a SE plot for a long time. What is surprising is the ease through which this is accomplished. Let's also think in terms of the Rad-Ixion factions. Rad might appreciate Rafiel's help, but why would Glantri feel any more relaxed about it's southern borders. As far as they are concerned, the SE are even more of the threat than the Alfheimers were. SEs are aggressive, and secretive...just the sort of thing to cause a stir in the paranoid Glantrian princes. So does it helf the Rad alliance? I'm not sure. Does it help Raph? Most certainly. >Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save Thyatis?< Yeah...this doesn't make much sense, although Vanya can be pretty fickle. > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em posted, because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of Alphatia (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the Immortals, where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who are only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality of their own).< Thyatis is not a monotheistic country, and so even if a few of its patron immortals choose to side with Rad, I doubt that Thyatis as a whole would have. What might have happened instead is intense political debates and perhaps some minor acts of internal terrorism which would have the effect of taking Thyatis out of the war (but not taking Thyatis out, as it were, and leaving it in smouldering ruins). If Vanya does side with Rad (and why not, she seems to love a good fight), then she could prevent Thyatis from attacking Glantri (by following the above prescribed actions), which is all she really needs to do. Thyatis will still stand as a southern buffer to the Alphers (they would never let the Alphers march armies across their borders), and would leave Vanya's pet followers the HKs, to fight a war on an Eastern front. As far as Vanya's concerned if the HKs can't take a beating and survive, then perhaps they are not worthy followers after all. A smart move on her part? who knows? Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that better tactics on the part of a few immortals alligned with Rad could explain the same basic outcome of the war, without getting various other immortals (Eiryndul, Asterius) involved at all. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:34:11 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Atraughin culture (was Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adventures?) In-Reply-To: <7d.4ba88a.25bf0cb3@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > << I really disliked the way it felt that the Atruaghin Clans > should be in the Hollow World. There was mention of cultural > weapons and the way they wouldn't adapt anything from Darokin. > This sounds very Hollow Worldy and very un-american-indian, > so I'm not sure why it was in there. >> > > The only explanation I can come up with (and a weak one at that) > is that the Immortal Atruaghin was himself born in the Hollow World. > Maybe he imposed his own cultural bias on his followers? I can think of several factors: Ethnocentrism is a strong factor in any culture's resistance to change. Pragmatism - it's hard to hunt buffalo when decked out in full plate. Metal is rare on the plateau IIRC, so the creation of metal equiptment is similarily discouraged by nature. Separation from the rest of the world. Only the Children of the Bear really have much contact with outsiders, due to the geography set in place by Atraughin, so only they have assimilated any amount. - Mischa Just as surely as people of color suffer in a white society because of their color, whites benefit because they are white. And since whites have profited from a racist structure, whites must work to change it. - Rev. Jim Wallis (a white guy) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:43:44 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI (was: Thyatis, Alfheim,and WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James Ruhland writes: >> Ka: Ka is against the war, not for either side. Since Ixion is the > attacker, he fights against Ixion in Pandius. If Rad started threatening > Ixion, he would fight that too. When the Doomsday Weapon is activated, > he joins Ixion. > I donno, though: He's supposedly "for" Rad because protecting the "new style" Immortals is a big deal for him. Anyhow, his position doesn't really matter since he doesn't seem to do anything to really influence the "facts on the ground" that matter most to us, anyhow.< LOL...Maybe Ka just wanted to stir things up so that he would have more cultures to add to his precious Hollow World... Kind of a twisted bend to the old lizard, but who knows how his alien mind works. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:43:53 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Poll Results: Preferred Nation In-Reply-To: <20000125094101.16547.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I vote Nithia (if still exits). Well, it depends on the era in which you run your campaign. In 1000 AC, Nithia is a nation in the Hollow World and a ?province? of the Emirates of Ylaurum. > BTW, where is the best URL with Nithia stuff? Not too much work has been done on it. The HWR for Nithia is pretty pathetic as well. - Mischa Just as surely as people of color suffer in a white society because of their color, whites benefit because they are white. And since whites have profited from a racist structure, whites must work to change it. - Rev. Jim Wallis (a white guy) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:49:51 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Aengmor In-Reply-To: <20000125162459.5147.qmail@web1205.mail.yahoo.com>; from chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM on Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 08:24:59AM -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Jan 25, 2000 at 08:24:59AM -0800, John Calvin wrote: > Likewise Glantri should not have to lend > support to the HKs in any way. I don't think Glantri did help the HK's at all during the war. And the only help the HK's gave Glantri was marching on the Humanoids in the Broken Lands. Thyatis sided with Glantri, but that could easily be seen as an excuse to attack the Alphatians. One of the things that always puzzled me was that after a 5 year build up of military, neither Thyatis or Alphatia were ready for war. I'd have preffered a Thyatian attack on East Portage or something. > Another immortal siding with Rad was Rafiel. It is no > surprise that he should direct his followers to take > over the surface of Alfheim. This has been a SE plot > for a long time. What is surprising is the ease > through which this is accomplished. Well, like you said it has been a SE plot for a long time, this was just the excecution of the plan, perhaps speeded up by Rafiel supporting it fully. > Let's also think > in terms of the Rad-Ixion factions. Rad might > appreciate Rafiel's help, but why would Glantri feel > any more relaxed about it's southern borders. As far > as they are concerned, the SE are even more of the > threat than the Alfheimers were. SEs are aggressive, > and secretive...just the sort of thing to cause a stir > in the paranoid Glantrian princes. So does it helf > the Rad alliance? I'm not sure. Does it help Raph? > Most certainly. In my own campaign I had the Alfheim elves attempt to assasinate military leaders in Glantri, leading to a souring of relations and them allying with the Shadowelves (kind of, it was more complicated than that). However as written it's Rad that sees the SE's as allies, not the Glantrians. As soon as they see past the Alphatians/Orc problems I'm sure they'd be very worried about the SE's... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:43:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia Comments: To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > that the Immortal will help them gain Immortality. If you think the Alphers > as a whole are devout followers of the Immortals, then more power to you. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 08:50:53 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James Ruhland writes: >> I tend to think it might be a combination of both: There were some "Blackmoor era" Immortals who aren't around now, perhaps a half dozen or so, but they lost so many followers in the cataclysm and general disorder that followed it that they suffered "Immortal Fadeout" and are gone now. The survivors were the truely tough hombres (but perhaps *they* suffered a bit too in that upheaval, and as a result lost a lot of their memories - which is why the oldest ones never remember the time before they were Immortals any longer. Note also they would have had to spend lots of PPs to put the world right - not quite as many as they would have spended re-creating Alphatia and reviving 90% of its population: do a tally of how many PPs that costs some time, and let me know if you think they would have put forth the effort. Where was I? Oh, yah:) so some faded out, others almost did and lost some of their memory as a result. AND there weren't as many Immortals back then as their are now because the number of Immortals tends to grow over time due to the fact that, as hard as it is to reach Immortality, there are lots of potential candidates throughout history, and it's devilishly hard to exterminate an Immortal once he or she becomes one.< It's the part about loosing their memories that really intrigues me. Does this mean that after all is set right with Alphatia, that some of the immortals are weaker and have lost their memories (or at least portions of them)? This sounds like the perfect time for Hidden Blackmoor to arise... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:12:50 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Aengmor] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Gordon McCormick wrote: > >Thyatis sided with Glantri, but that could >easily be seen as an excuse to attack the >Alphatians. One of the things that always >puzzled me was that after a 5 year build up >of military, neither Thyatis or Alphatia were >ready for war. I'd have preffered a Thyatian >attack on East Portage or something. I prefer to think of it as the Alphies and Thyatians had been at one anot= her's throats during those entire five years, so their forces were somewhat dep= leted and not capable of sustaining a protracted war. There is some evidence to this effect already- the ascension of Ramenhote= p XXIV to the Thothian throne c.1002 AC (PWAs). Since Ramenhotep XXII was i= n power from 1000 AC until then (DotE), we can assume that the module M5: T= alons of Night, which had Thyatis and Alphatia at war with one another- took pl= ace sometime in this period. For similar reasons, I'd set most of the CM series of modules during thos= e first few years after 1000 AC (possible exception, CM1: Test of Warlords-= which I'd probably have detailing Thyatian/Alphatian agression cometime between 992 and 1000 AC). Of course, this assumption would seem to indicate that *both* sides armie= s would be weakened, but the Alphatians didn't seem to have any problems...= possibly the Thyatians took the brunt of the toll during those wars (the modules themselves seem to lean that way, having a "bad Thyatiians" slant= ). = (Slightly OT: For that matter, though, I'd think the Alphies would have h= ad an easier time going around the southern tip of the Isle of Dawn rather than= through it, if all they were interested in was Glantri. So methinks they weren't exactly forthcoming with their reasons to war on the west. I alwa= ys thought their reasons for declaring war on Glantri- Immortal interference= or no- were pretty sketchy. IMO, they were obviously only interested in impe= rial aggression against Thyatis, using the flimsy excuse of attacking Glantri.= But I digress...) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:11:14 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > It's the part about loosing their memories that really > intrigues me. Does this mean that after all is set > right with Alphatia, that some of the immortals are > weaker and have lost their memories (or at least > portions of them)? > They seem to have lost their marbles - or at least the ability to distinguish between their followers (who should be supported by them) and those who are indifferent towards them (who should not). But this issue was deftly avoided in the post-WotI materiel (which, admitedly, didn't revisit the Immortals that much). Guys would have dropped down the PP hierarchy like flies. Creating a continent-sized land mass isn't the big deal: that's about 10 PPs ("small moon") IMO it's pretty complex, though (has to be shaped to orbit around the HW sun, is not spherical, gets its own skyshield), so add +20 PPs, for a total of 30 PPs. Not a big deal overall. . .for the continent itself. Add in creating all the life forms, trees, animals, bodies for the people (5,000,000+), etc. Uncalcuable. Build all the buildings, cities, other structures, replace the magic items, jewelery, clothing & other posessions the Alphatians remember themselves having. At a cost of 1 PP per 10,000gp value. Absolutely astronomical. One could say that they just moved the stuff from the sunken continent, but that doesn't seem to be the case (the ruins are still down there), and wouldn't have helped that much anyhow (HW/Floating Alphatia would then be full of ruined buildings, everyplace would look like Sundsvall, in effect). So they had to create those de novo. Then you have to cast Transform on all of them in order to alter the memories (well, not all of them - just about 95% of them, the ones below 9th level). That costs 5 PPs each: (5,071,000 x,95) x5 = 24,087,250 PPs. Point is, once you go through the figures you can see why the Immortals tended to save only villiage, town, and small city sized communities when placing the other civilizations in the HW. You just can't save the whole nation, it's effectively impossible even for Immortals. Lets say they just Raise Dead Fully on the recovered bodies of the Alphers themselves, rather than re-create them* (and even the flora & fauna), that still leaves the question of the structures, objects d art, and magic items - one could say the magic items were salvaged by the Immortals, but the buildings (as mentioned above) could not have been. A whole continent's worth of structures, some quite grand & expensive, and the Immortals would be sucking PPs in no time - they'd all be 1st level Temporials before they gotm anywhere near done. And that's before you get to the Transform spell to alter their memories, at a grand total of about 24 meg PPs. They probably would have forgotten a lot of stuff as a result, as they drained themselves to nothing on behalf of the Alphatians. So yes, there'd be a lot of amnesiac Immortals wandering around, amid the effectively Feebleminded ones. *Re-creating them, bodys & all, would have cost buku PPs. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:37:14 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adventures?)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Mischa E Gelman wrote: I hope Mischa doesn't mind, but I altered the order of his reply a little= bit, to illustrate my response better... >Ethnocentrism is a strong factor in any culture's resistance to change. True, but this will only take you so far, particularly when surrounded by= more technologically advanced cultures who are intent on conquest. And remembe= r that the Atruaghin peoples have been around for far longer than most othe= r cultures/nations of Mystara. There is quite a gap between their freedom from the Red Orcs (800 BC IIRC= ?) and the rise of the modern nations of the Old World, during which the surrounding nations were decidedly more aggressive and technologically advanced than the Atruaghin people (Darokin, for one, before its adoption= of Republicanism/Plutocracy). Which goes in hand with... >Separation from the rest of the world. Only the Children of the Bear >really have much contact with outsiders, due to the geography set in >pl= ace by Atraughin, so only they have assimilated any amount. I fully agree that the odds of the people atop the plateau having any significant contact with surrounding nations is minimal to nonexistent. I= can fully support the idea of them maintaining the level of technology that t= hey are described as in Gaz14. But I find it very difficult to buy that the Atruaghin peoples of the low= lands (Turtle and Tiger clans, to be specific) haven't advanced beyond their fo= rmer levels. They are right in the thick of things. The Tiger Clan, at least, should have embraced the technologies of the surrounding nations- or been= destroyed for their aggressive tendencies. Similarly, the Turtle clan should either have adapted or been wiped out b= y the Tiger clan. >Pragmatism - it's hard to hunt buffalo when decked out in full plate. >Metal is rare on the plateau IIRC, so the creation of metal equiptment i= s >similarily discouraged by nature. Definitely. = But what I find disappointing is that the Atruaghin cultures were "frozen= " at such technologically primitive levels. Sure, they correspond to similar Amerindian/Mesoamerican cultures from the RW (roughly, anyway). But they = are also given one of the longest, most continuous cultural backgrounds of an= y Old World nation, so it seems a little disappointing that the designer of Gaz= 14 didn't do more with them. It's almost as if he were saying that, given a = few more centuries (in this case, over a millenia) of progress- relatively undisturbed progress- the Amerindian cultures still wouldn't have progres= sed beyond the "primitive" levels they were in when the Europeans arrived. = Which to me, is ignoring a prime opportunity for some great fantasy development. Sure, there may be something to the theory that cultures in isolation develop more slowly (the book "Guns, Germs, and Warfare" does a= n excellent job of laying this out, and discussing RW cultures and cultural= progress). But that doesn't mean they don't develop at all! Personally, I'd love to know what a cvilization like the Incas might have= become, had they been left to their own progress, or at least been given = a few more centuries of it before the Europeans arrived. Their architecture, ma= ny aspects of their culture were amazing for such "primitive" people. But we'll never know what might have been. What I'd have liked to see with the Atruaghin atop the plateau would be a= n extension of this. Not the "primitive" buffalo hunters of the horse clan,= who'd likely have exterminated their fauna long ago (over a thousand year= s in isolation- tell me Atruaghin isn't spending massive amounts of PP just ke= eping those buffalo roaming). What might they have developed into, in isolation= from the outside world? What sorts of farming and irrigation techniques might = they have discovered and invented? How about the Elk Clan? Living in the forests there on the edge of the plateau. Might they have become similar to the elves? Caretakers of the w= oods, lest they vanish completely as they needed to build houses, etc? Perhaps = a strongly druidic culture? Or how about the Bear Clan? Maybe they don't have access to metalwork lik= e their outside neighbors, but might they have achieved similar success wit= h stone? Or created some sort of new material from the basis of their adobe= ? I think the Atruaghin were/are a wonderful minefield of fantasy experimentation that were woefully undeveloped. How about the people that= might live *inside* the plateau? Or that live in the forests north of the= Turtle Clan and west of the Tiger Clan? (Note: I plan on doing something = with both of these ideas... someday. :( Anyway, enough ranting about the Atruaghin people. As you can tell, they = are sort of a pet peeve of mine. The greatest Mystaran culture that never was= =2E Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:36:36 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Immortals: Heresies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The discussion of Immortals prodded me to ask this question: What sort of "heresies" do you think there are (or perhaps were in the past) on Mystara? Divergent ways of venerating this or that Immortal or group of Immortals? Perhaps the Immortal(s) themselves don't mind these variations, but they led too or will lead to conflict among their followers who see their way of doing things as "right" and the other's as "deviant heretics corrupting the true faith". Anyone develop any interesting Mystaran Heresies? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:03:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Ruhland ha scritto: > > > Build all the buildings, cities, other structures, replace the magic items, > jewelery, clothing & other posessions the Alphatians remember themselves > having. At a cost of 1 PP per 10,000gp value. Absolutely astronomical. > > One could say that they just moved the stuff from the sunken continent, but > that doesn't seem to be the case (the ruins are still down there), and > wouldn't have helped that much anyhow (HW/Floating Alphatia would then be > full of ruined buildings, everyplace would look like Sundsvall, in effect). > So they had to create those de novo. > > Then you have to cast Transform on all of them in order to alter the > memories (well, not all of them - just about 95% of them, the ones below > 9th level). That costs 5 PPs each: > (5,071,000 x,95) x5 = 24,087,250 PPs. This REALLY makes me ANGERED and really FURIOUS. And obviously they are able to conquer the world already in 1012, while Thyatis faces problems everywhere. I don't care of Thyatis facing problems. It's obvious, when you have had to face such a devastating war...but why is Alphatia PERFECT? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (x 1'000'000). So tomorrow morning I will be an official TSR designer, and I'll tell my comrade Porphy 'Hey, Porphy, let's have the Immortals decide that Thyatis Rules over ALL the World. Ixion changes the memories of everybody and builds millions of Thyatian-like villages all over the world.' Yes. I like logical flaws. And I have an exam on Friday that I'm never going to pass. Arrh. (A prayer to Andrew's Pirate Immortal?) Giulio This time NOT speaking through the voice of the much renowned Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:01:19 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Throw in some "Lost World"-ish platau monsters, and it fits. They can even be the decendants of the Gaz. Clans, but they have kept a little more up to date. Relegate the Official Clans to HW. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:09:52 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My original request was not to stop the thread, but rather stop bashing people because they don't use OD&D or don't favor OD&D. My suggestion was if these type of people cannot control themselves and continue ill effects, then perhaps they should remove themselves from the list. However, if the admin here supports people stepping on others on merits of a favored game, then I stand corrected. -- On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 21:45:29 Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >John R Hofmann meandered fecklessly... > >> I truly apologize if it somehow offended anyone, but I don't >> think that participation in this thread should warrant being told to stop >> mailing to this list. > >Don't worry, there is only one person whom you need heed >when told to stop discussing a thread: me. And some of the >WotC officials, I s'pose. Anyone else that tells you to stop >talking about something is assuming a level of control they >do not have (something I recommend against). > >If a person has a problem with a thread or post on this list >and feels the thread should be stopped they should take it up >with me. > > > >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@uswest.net >http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >ICQ #20039817 > >"When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed >suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija >board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:36:02 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is an idea I found for HighForge. The gnomes are quite paranoid and closely guard their home. All intruders will be dealt with in the swiftest fashion; though after several warnings and as a last resort. As this is one of the last few bastions of Gnomish civilizations, the gnomes closely guard their secrets. If anyone has the pre-boxed Expert Set, there's a map of one of their outpost that guards against intruders wishing to enter HighForge. But what are the secrets there in HighForge... Here's one idea: The HighForge is a city exists within a crater like area within the hills. The gnomes there tell the Karameikan government that this area is a small town, so that the gnomes will not be perceived as a threat. In the middle of the city is the highest point, which contains a magical forge that is able to mold the most durable of substances and a rare special metal with unique properties found within the area. The gnomes share this secret with local Dwarven clans. Surrounding the city are eight tunnels that go into the subterranean. There are paved roads that lead into these tunnels. Each of these tunnels connects to a underground city. Each of these cities in turn connects to smaller towns. Farther below these cities is a large vast Gnomish city which could be considered the capitol of Gnomish civilization on Mystara. The gnomes strength is quite strong. They possess the power to conquer Karameikos. However, they would never do this as this would not be in their nature, and also because they would reveal their secret. There is some unknown dark secret out there that seeks to destroy the gnomes. The gnomes also someday hope to re-conquer their lost territories in southern Soderfjord Jarldoms area. However, the kolbold armies, once assisted by an unknown dark force, are very strong. There were a few Dwarven clans that existed during the early times back before the Kolbold invasion. Many of these Dwarven clans accompanied by Gnomish refugees migrated to HighForge and surrounding cities. As for the unknown dark force.. The Gnomes fought against these folk and have a resistance against their mental abilities. The Moderswerg (spelling?) had collaborated with these folk in the research of the dark arcane. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:45:12 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Misunderstandings (was: ODnD - BDnD) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Darth Darknerd wrote: > My original request was not to stop the thread, but > rather stop bashing people because they don't use > OD&D or don't favor OD&D. And, personally, I would agree with you if that had been the content of the thread. However, as John pointed out (forgive me for being redundant), the actual point of the OD&D, BD&D, AD&D, etc. discussion was NOT the content of the rules per se, but actual what people are calling them. It may not be a topic of interest to everyone, but I certainly can't imagine how that was confrontational. Unless some message didn't make it to my e-mail, there was nothing in that thread that stated (explicitly or implicitly) that one edition of rules was any better than any other. My understanding, and I could've mistinterpreted here, was that John was trying to clarify the difference between multiple editions of the rules. That way, when someone refers to a specific rule or concept from say the "OD&D" version of the game, that everyone else is on the same page and is thinking of the same edition. To a certain degree, I guess, it's like when someone refers to AD&D, they could theoretically be talking about either 1st or 2nd Ed. Sometimes, a little clarification is in order. I guess the bottom line, IMO, as to whether the thread was of interest to each individual was whether or not each person feels that any confusion does, in fact, exist concerning names of different editions... > However, if the admin here supports people stepping > on others on merits of a favored game, then I stand > corrected. Not to be a brown-noser here, but I can't recall Leroy ever supporting (or even condoning) any sort of confrontational interaction on this list. IMO, he has been pretty hands-off... Anyway, all apologies for long-windedness. I'll try to get to the point a little quicker next time. :) auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:47:40 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I used a spirit system for a ranger-like scout hero in the land. He had visions that his people would be invaded and turned into undead. This is true indeed, if the Desert Nomads succeed. His mission was to travel the world and stop the plans of the Master in order to save his people. The spirits gave him the power of "Detect Undead" and as he rises in levels, he'll gain more powers. This helps because he cannot wear armor except for hides and leathers, so there needs to be someway compensate for this. I gave any player of these lands some minor shamonistic abilities which include divination and the power to assistance or powers from the spirits. Good rule ideas for spirit powers are from Spells & Magic supplement. I also give them some powers to communicate to things of nature, such as the animals and ancient spirits. I guess this would mimic "Speak with Dead" or "Speak with Animals" except that I cloak this around a shroud of mystery making the character unique. They can identify plants and animals, and have the ability to heal (d3 hit points) through a skill, and can use herbalism. There are several types of ailments that can be fixed through these substances found in their homeland. Examples would be: curative affects (d8) for burns, curative affects for acids, anti-toxin for spiders, anti-toxins for serpents, another grants extra energy combating affects of fatigue, allow people to see at night for a limited time, etc. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:54:49 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Introducing- Arrh! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thought I'd do this as a tongue-in-cheek joke: Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) Sphere: Time Alignment: Chaotic (Followers may be any alignment, though most are Chaot= ic). Rank: Celestial Description: Arrh appears as a grizzled, skeletal pirate. His right hand = ends in a hook; his left leg ending in a peg leg. His skull face has long gray= hair and a beard, and a patch over his left eye. His tricorner hat covers his = bald head. He dresses outrageously, in bright jackets and trousers, with a constantly clashing belt. His familiar, a purple parrot named Avast, usua= lly sits on Arrh's shoulder. Personality: Arrh is an absolute hedonist. He is invariably found in some= tavern or other in the city of Pandius, fabulously drunk. He is a pleasan= t drunk, though- his friendly nature has earned him the nickname of the "Jo= lly Arrh" (which, incidentally, is what mortal pirates call the flag bearing = his symbol.) On the rare occasions in which he sobers up, Arrh has been known= to gather the souls of the most successful pirates of Mystaran history to cr= ew his ship, the "Shiver Me Timbers", and embark upon one of his legendary raiding journeys into the depths of the Outer Planes. He is mostly regard= ed as little more than a nuisance by the more powerful Immortals, who have to contend with the complaints from their subordinates when Arrh raids their= home planes. He is good friends with Korotiku, who is fond of pirates, and the= two are often seen in common company. The Immortal Faunus is a drinking buddy= =2E Philosophy: One word: Piracy. Getting by at the expense of others, and indulging one's whims to the fullest extent possible. Arrh's interests ar= e very narrow, but almost all pirates in the outer and hollow worlds of Mys= tara venerate him to one extent or another. Symbol: A grinning one-eyed skull atop a pair of crosses cutlasses on a b= lack field. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:30:51 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Darth, This sounds like a cool idea. Where else are there gnomes in Mystara? Matt Wang > > Surrounding the city are eight tunnels that go into > the subterranean. There are paved roads that lead > into these tunnels. Each of these tunnels connects > to a underground city. Each of these cities in turn > connects to smaller towns. Farther below these > cities is a large vast Gnomish city which could be > considered the capitol of Gnomish civilization on > Mystara. > > The gnomes strength is quite strong. They possess > the power to conquer Karameikos. However, they > would never do this as this would not be in their > nature, and also because they would reveal their > secret. There is some unknown dark secret out there > that seeks to destroy the gnomes. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:56:33 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's the post I mentioned last night, though I can't recall now what it= was prompted by... oh, wait. I think it was James who mentioned something abo= ut Al-Kalim's sudden following being something of a strange, fluke of the Immortal business. Anyway, here it is. ----------------- Al-Kalim was a follower of many Immortals during his lifetime, but now hi= s followers tend to dismiss the belief in other Immortals? Why is this? And= how was Al-Kalim able to garner such a tremendous following in such a short t= ime? Perhaps the Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim isn't as true as it purports to be.= The Truth Behind The Eternal Truth Once upon a time, there was a mortal named Mohammed Al-Kalim. Born in = the desert wastes of the Alaysian basin, gifted with an extraordinary insight= and abilities, this man had a vision. A vision of a lush, green valley, a bountiful oasis for his children, and his children's children. This was t= he Dream of the Desert Garden. = No fool, the man knew that no such dream would come to pass in his lifetime. Such a dream would take decades, perhaps centuries, to reach fruition. Yet, for all the efforts he put into instilling his dream into = his friends, companions, and followers, the dream would not come about withou= t continued guidance. Not within a mortal lifespan. But, perhaps, in an Immortal's lifespan? Al-Kalim sought guidance from the Immortal Guardians of the desert peo= ple. The Gnoll, Zephyr, many, many more. Their advice and influence led him, appropriately enough, to the Old Man of the Sea- for where else should th= e Dream of the Desert Garden lead but to water? The Old Man of the Sea was notoriously apathetic towards the plight of= the land dwellers, and so Al-Kalim embarked on a series of increasingly dange= rous tasks in order to prove his devotion and worth to the Immortal Guardian. Finally, convinced of the mortal's sincerity, the Old Man of the Sea reve= aled to Al-Kalim what the mortal must do in order to ascend into the ranks of = the Guardians. Al-Kalim accepted his tasks generously, and determinedly. Eventually, the pursuit of his tasks led Al-Kalim to divorce himself f= rom the connections to his mortal life. He left his Dream in the hands of tru= sted followers and friends, and allowed the world to believe him dead. Then he= resumed his tasks, confident that he would succeed and become an Immortal= Guardian. From his position on high, Al-Kalim would be able to oversee th= e efforts of his fellow desert dwellers, and assist them in the pursuit of = his- now their- Dream of the Desert Garden. Never looking back, Al-Kalim strod= e out into the Alaysian desert to complete his quests. For ages untold did Al-Kalim quest for his goal, for his quests took h= im not merely to distant places, but to distant times, as well. Al-Kalim witnessed many disturbing events as he sought to ensure the continuance o= f the nation he had helped found. Divisiveness within Ylaruam- factions fightin= g one another, losing sight of the common dream; Military invasions- both morta= l and demonic; and more. Of most curiosity to Al-Kalim, through all of his experiences, was amazement at not only the speed with which the Dream had= spread, but how it persevered, despite his divine guidance. This was a mystery, to be sure, and one which he promised to investigate upon his fi= nal- and, he never wavered in his confidence- inevitable ascension to Immortal= ity. His assurance was well justified, for Al-Kalim did indeed gain that de= sired position of influence. His tasks completed, the Old Man of the Sea assist= ed him with the transition to Immortality, then allowed his charge to go on = his way- perhaps to be called upon in the future, perhaps not; the Old Man of= the Sea was ever unpredictable. After a period of adjustment to his new stature, and embarking upon so= me distant explorations, the Immortal Al-Kalim recalled a promise made to hi= mself while still mortal. Returning his attentions to Mystara, he checked in on= the followers of the Dream of the Desert Garden. He monitored the progress th= ey had made over the period of his departure, and at their current status. A= nd he became alarmed. = Looking forward, through the futures he had witnessed as a mortal, he noticed the same trends. Not fully convinced, the Immortal Al-Kalim studi= ed more, until the truth could no longer be in doubt. = Someone or Something had usurped his following. It was the only thing that made sense. Mohammed Al-Kalim, the mortal, = had sought for Immortality so that he could continue to foster the Dream of t= he Desert Garden among his fellow Ylari. He knew that the Dream, strong as i= t was, could never attain the degree of commitment and following it needed without the backing of the words of the Immortal Guardians. Yet somehow i= t had. The followers of the Eternal Truth were not only surviving, they wer= e prospering. And many of them were able to call upon the powers of an Immo= rtal they knew as Al-Kalim- yet Al-Kalim knew that he was granting no such pow= ers. While questing as a mortal, he had been fearful that something might h= ave gone wrong. Yet he had held out hope that, perhaps, due to the vagaries o= f time travel, the events he had witnessed in his name might have yet been overseen by himself as an Immortal Guardian. Now he knew this was not the= truth. At some point during his absence from mortal affairs, another of the Immortal Guardians had usurped his calling, taking his name and leading h= is fellow Ylari in the name of Al-Kalim. The Dream of the Desert Garden had = been co-opted by another Immortal, and the followers of the dream along with i= t. For what nefarious purpose was not yet evident, but the visions of the fu= ture Al-Kalim had experienced were a harrowing bit of foreshadowing. The Immortal Al-Kalim took this evidence to the other Immortals. Surel= y, such an event could not be allowed to transpire! Yet ever was he met with= a blind eye. First his patron, the Old Man of the Sea- apathetic as always-= turned him away. So it went, all the way to Khoronus, Hierarch of Time, w= ho wiped his hands of the affair, claiming fear of a temporal paradox if the= usurpation were to be undone. The Immortal Al-Kalim couldn't even learn t= he true identity of the Immortal who had stolen his name and his followers. = Was the Dream of the Desert Garden to die along with the mortal Mohammed Al-K= alim, as was his original fear? Was his quest on behalf of the Ylari for naught= ? Only time may tell=85 The DM's Eternal Truth So what is the real truth? Who is the Immortal who has been masqueradi= ng as Al-Kalim for over a century, and leading the factions of the desert nomad= s of Ylaruam in their crusades? Someone with a dislike of other Immortals, tha= t much is true- why else would the Ylari abandon their ancient beliefs in t= he multiple Immortal Guardians for a faith in only one Immortal, Al-Kalim? Possibly it is someone with a long abiding interest in the Alasiyan de= sert and its regions. Someone skilled at subtlety. Ranivorus, possibly, who assisted in the corruption of the ancient Nithians of the same region? Or= Thanatos, the eternal Evil himself? = And what has become of the Immortal Al-Kalim? His following stolen out= from underneath him, his every effort to salvage his faith, or to discover the= identity of his enemy, met with apathy and sometimes disdain by his "fell= ow" Immortals? Will he uncover the identity of his ancient enemy and take the= battle to the people- perhaps leading to the schism between the Preceptor= s and Kin factions of the Ylari? Or will he become so angry towards the other Immortals that he abandons his Dream of the Desert Garden and seeks reven= ge against the system that would allow this to happen? Yet another possibility- what of the strange new Immortal Gareth, who claims to have returned from distant realms, and preaches against the Immortals, and inspires mortals to independent thought and action? Might = he be the Immortal Al-Kalim, in another guise, using the tactics of his nameles= s enemy- of adopting a new identity in order to usurp the followings of oth= ers? Many questions, few answers. What is the Truth behind the Eternal Trut= h? I don't know. Perhaps there is none. Or, perhaps as they say on a popular t= v show that I rarely watch, "the Truth is out there." It's for individual D= M's to discover. But I hope it's at least been interesting reading. :) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:04:17 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With tweeking, this is a little like the Rc Mystic. Possiblities here . . . I also give them some powers to communicate to things of nature, such as the animals and ancient spirits. I guess this would mimic "Speak with Dead" or "Speak with Animals" except that I cloak this around a shroud of mystery making the character unique. They can identify plants and animals, and have the ability to heal (d3 hit points) through a skill, and can use herbalism. There are several types of ailments that can be fixed through these substances found in their homeland. Examples would be: curative affects (d8) for burns, curative affects for acids, anti-toxin for spiders, anti-toxins for serpents, another grants extra energy combating affects of fatigue, allow people to see at night for a limited time, etc. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:31:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darth Darknerd meandered fecklessly... > My original request was not to stop the thread, but rather > stop bashing people because they don't use OD&D or > don't favor OD&D. > > My suggestion was if these type of people cannot > control themselves and continue ill effects, then perhaps > they should remove themselves from the list. Which is not something you need to be recommending. It's not your place. You are not the admin. If someone says something that you disagree with, you have two choices. First, if you feel you can reply in a civil manner, feel free to refute what was posted. Second, if you do not wish to further participate and feel the thread is problematic, drop me a line. I will then deal with it, if I feel a need. Perhaps I missed a post, but I didn't see anything in the thread that needed to be dealt with. > However, if the admin here supports people stepping on > others on merits of a favored game, then I stand corrected. Now you're being silly. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 12:58:18 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Comments: cc: Matthew Wang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are four canon materials that exist for gnomes. One is the town of HighForge, which were introduced in Mystara originally in the Expert booklet. There is the PC3 supplement called Top Balista. In this supplement, gnomes run a floating sky city. These gnomes even have flying bi-wing planes. Another rather humorous CM module is EarthShaker which details an entire Gnomish community operating this large walking titan of a primitive mechanical automaton. Lastly, the Ierendi Gazetteer describes a sizable community of gnomes that exist in Honor Island. They assist the Alphatian Fire-Elmentalists in their experiments. One notable accomplishment of this dynamic-duo is the infamous fire-elemental powered steam ships that catapult fire-gue balls at other ships. This was a gnomish invention, powered by Fire Elemental physics as researched by the Alphatians. I haven't devised other locations, but I would imagine another good spot for gnomes would be in Alphatia in an area between the Dwarven territories and Elven lands. They would have surface and sub-surface dwellings. Though possibly not as large as the HighForge community. There are underlying tunnels that connect Alphatian to underworld empires (of non-Gnomish kind) and then to Soderfjord Jarldoms. These underworld kingdoms would be about as deep as the Shadow Elven empire. They would exist above the zero-gravity area between Hollow World and surface world. There might be other pocket communities isolated since the age of Blackmoor. Some said these gnomes might possess some of the lost secrets, such as the bending of light. Some say they left the Mystara to one of the moons through rockets, a word meaning chariots of fire. However, these advanced communities are mostly in the mythology of Gnomish society and no evidence can prove the existence of these advanced communities. -- On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 11:30:51 Matthew Wang wrote: >Darth, > >This sounds like a cool idea. Where else are there >gnomes in Mystara? > >Matt Wang > >> >> Surrounding the city are eight tunnels that go into >> the subterranean. There are paved roads that lead >> into these tunnels. Each of these tunnels connects >> to a underground city. Each of these cities in turn >> connects to smaller towns. Farther below these >> cities is a large vast Gnomish city which could be >> considered the capitol of Gnomish civilization on >> Mystara. >> >> The gnomes strength is quite strong. They possess >> the power to conquer Karameikos. However, they >> would never do this as this would not be in their >> nature, and also because they would reveal their >> secret. There is some unknown dark secret out there >> that seeks to destroy the gnomes. >> >> >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:40:04 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated Tue, 25 Jan 2000 3:27:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, Caroletti writes: > I think I will soon re-write all the motivations of the WotI, stripping it of, > I hope, most of the logical incongruences. Then I'll post it > More theories the merrier. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:45:47 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Clay Postma Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adven... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/25/00 10:37:45 AM Mountain Standard Time, cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: << But what I find disappointing is that the Atruaghin cultures were "frozen" at such technologically primitive levels. >> In my "history" of the clans the explanation exists buried underneath the plateau...the Eye of Chaos. It has a sphere of influence that affects all of the clans and, in effect, changes the natural order in its area. Spells work differently, the "order" in metal weapons breaks down and they become brittle and useless etc. Granted that these are strange effects...but what else can you expect from the entombed Eye of a Chaos Lord? As for his other "body parts"...well...only time will tell what has become of He whom the elves name Thari and the dwarves Zahadun. And who we puny humans have corrupted into Tharizdun in our young tongue. Yes I know Tharizdun is a Greyhawk creation but I love the guy so much that I have incorporated him into my "true Mystara mythos". Which mythos, by the way, I am hoping to finish sometime in the next century (work and family permitting that is), complete with the tale of the creation of everything, the division of Order and Chaos, and the creation of the Five Spheres and Four Elemental Planes as told by the Prophet himself, the Avatar of Balance, BOB. froggy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:30:27 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Calvin wrote: > > Agathokles wrote: > >Shadow elven mages are in need of another massive > incantation. > Unfortunately, Atzanteotl steps in once more, and > corrupt shadow elves > help him, persuading their collegues that the forest > cannot be saved > without extreme measures: with an enormous magical > effort, the entire > forest is petrified. The shadow elven wizards collapse > from exaustion, > and the weaker among them die. While Aengmor is > deprived of mages, > followers of Atzanteotl attack from Oenkmar. At this > point, they > conquer > at least half of the forest, which becomes a battle > field for the > following decade.< > > I like this idea! Thanks! Of course it only makes sense that > the shadow elves would try to petrify the forest, as > stone and earth are more familiar to them than are > trees and grass. I'm not quite sure that Atzanteotle > needs to be the cause of this. What does he have to > gain (unless his plan was to give the SE a spell which > would require the life of the casting mage, thereby > eliminating compitition for his Shattenalfen > followers). > Well, from the more or less canonical sorces, it seems that the SE actually want to preserve the forest, maybe just to exploit it. However, the main goal for Atzanteotl is exactly the one you guessed: killing or incapacitating the SE wizards to give an edge to his followers (SE, Schattenalfen and goblinoids) in the City of Aengmor (formerly known as Oenkmar). > Anyway this could be a great source of conflict > between the Alfheimers who were invited back to try > and save the forest, and the SE who just plain have > given up. > Indeed. Personally, I never liked that much the idea of SE and Alfheimers going hand in hand after centuries of enmity. > Here is an interesting question. What would happen to > the Trees of Life? They are artifacts, so they > souldn't be affected by mortal magic (and therefore > would not be petrified). Here is another job for Atzanteotl. (Mass destruction of an energy immortal's avatars would be a great feat even for Thanatos!) If he put enough of his own magic into the SE spell (perhaps draining SE wizards' life forces to this purpose), he could at least seriously damage the trees. I wonder if the SE did turn > all of the oaks to stone, would there be just enough > water to keep only the ToLs alive? Perhaps the ToLs > would become patches of green inside of a "grey" sea > of petrified trees.? > I think the Alfheimers will bring the surviving ToL somewhere else (say, Darokin, Wendar, Karameikos, even Atruaghin). The survival of the ToLs is more a priority than the survival of the forest, IMO. Perhaps one tree might end up in the Hollow World, if the spell really endangers them. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:49:09 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i just get confused by it all, that's the only reason i protest. simple mind here, still recovering from my last psychotic episode (remember the "Save Meltheim's Brain" fund?) Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:53:31 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Hello, I'm back... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry, wrong guy. I did things like Karameikan Kick boxing, and stuff under the weapon mastery rules. ----- Original Message ----- From: H�vard To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:03 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back... > Welcome back! > > > Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on martial arts > > systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I guess > > that's about it for now. > > Were you the one who did all that martial arts/Spheres/Elements-stuff? > > H�vard > > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:59:35 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adven...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Clay Postma wrote: > >Yes I know Tharizdun is a Greyhawk creation but I love the guy so much >= that I have incorporated him into my "true Mystara mythos". = That's an interesting theory, and it would explain the apparent "backward= ness" of the Atruaghin peoples. As far as integrating the Mystara and Greyhawk mythos- it would be fairly= easy to do, especially with the Atruaghin people. I don't know if you own the Scarlet Brotherhood accessory that came out recently, but it finally goes= into detail on the people of Hepmonaland, and one of the groups of tribal peop= les there (can't think of the name they are given offhand) are distinctly Mesoamerican- they even use the Aztec gods as their deities. It would be fairly easy to say that these folk are a) related to the Azcan people (an= d thus the Atruaghin people) of Mystara, b) ancestors of the Azcan/Oltec pe= ople of Mystara (via, say, a Tovag Baragu-like portal), c) descended from the Azcans of Mystara. It all depends on wha tyou consider the relative ages = of the planets... by my calculations, though, Greyhawk is a slightly younger= world than Mystara... at least I seem to think it is, I'll have to check = my "master" table when I get home. Quetzalcoatl could actually be Atruaghin, then. Of course, my theory is that both of these peoples (and possibly the Mazt= icans of FR- I don't know much about them) are actually descended from Earth (a= ka Laterre) Aztecs and similar peoples. But that's another story... Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen = ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:09:45 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yo, er, not to destory your theory or anything, but the only evidence I've seen thus far of al-Kalim followers attempting to supplant or destroy other immortal followings was in Ierendi, which was a poorly written Gazateer anyway. There's also a faction that believes foreigners are bad, whom al-Kalim allows to stay in order to keep the Emirates from lapsing into a despotic form where only one ideal is right. I think a lot of early interpretations of Ylaruam were colored by misconceptions based upon real world Arabic cultures, notably those in the Middle East. *cough* Saddam *cough* If you use WotI in your campaign, they clearly decided to take advantage of the chaos during the war to give Thyatis a bit of payback, but that's no clear evidence of fanaticism on part of their priests. To use the Savage Coast as an additional point, the nation of Saragon was settled by Ylari immigrants, are are well known for their scholarly and tolerant practices. Whereas in Navaraez, the priests of Vanya and Ixion are harsh, fanatic, and pursue heretics with the full measure of the rope and stake. I don't know... say what you will, I've always like al-Kalim as far as Immortals go. Sort of an example that you don't have to be a follower of ancient magics and ideas to reach Immortality. IronWolf Andrew Theisen wrote: > > Here's the post I mentioned last night, though I can't recall now what it was > prompted by... oh, wait. I think it was James who mentioned something about > Al-Kalim's sudden following being something of a strange, fluke of the > Immortal business. Anyway, here it is. > > ----------------- > > Al-Kalim was a follower of many Immortals during his lifetime, but now his > followers tend to dismiss the belief in other Immortals? Why is this? And how > was Al-Kalim able to garner such a tremendous following in such a short time? > > Perhaps the Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim isn't as true as it purports to be. > > The Truth Behind The Eternal Truth > > Once upon a time, there was a mortal named Mohammed Al-Kalim. Born in the > desert wastes of the Alaysian basin, gifted with an extraordinary insight and > abilities, this man had a vision. A vision of a lush, green valley, a > bountiful oasis for his children, and his children's children. This was the > Dream of the Desert Garden. > No fool, the man knew that no such dream would come to pass in his > lifetime. Such a dream would take decades, perhaps centuries, to reach > fruition. Yet, for all the efforts he put into instilling his dream into his > friends, companions, and followers, the dream would not come about without > continued guidance. Not within a mortal lifespan. But, perhaps, in an > Immortal's lifespan? > Al-Kalim sought guidance from the Immortal Guardians of the desert people. > The Gnoll, Zephyr, many, many more. Their advice and influence led him, > appropriately enough, to the Old Man of the Sea- for where else should the > Dream of the Desert Garden lead but to water? > The Old Man of the Sea was notoriously apathetic towards the plight of the > land dwellers, and so Al-Kalim embarked on a series of increasingly dangerous > tasks in order to prove his devotion and worth to the Immortal Guardian. > Finally, convinced of the mortal's sincerity, the Old Man of the Sea revealed > to Al-Kalim what the mortal must do in order to ascend into the ranks of the > Guardians. Al-Kalim accepted his tasks generously, and determinedly. > Eventually, the pursuit of his tasks led Al-Kalim to divorce himself from > the connections to his mortal life. He left his Dream in the hands of trusted > followers and friends, and allowed the world to believe him dead. Then he > resumed his tasks, confident that he would succeed and become an Immortal > Guardian. From his position on high, Al-Kalim would be able to oversee the > efforts of his fellow desert dwellers, and assist them in the pursuit of his- > now their- Dream of the Desert Garden. Never looking back, Al-Kalim strode out > into the Alaysian desert to complete his quests. > For ages untold did Al-Kalim quest for his goal, for his quests took him > not merely to distant places, but to distant times, as well. Al-Kalim > witnessed many disturbing events as he sought to ensure the continuance of the > nation he had helped found. Divisiveness within Ylaruam- factions fighting one > another, losing sight of the common dream; Military invasions- both mortal and > demonic; and more. Of most curiosity to Al-Kalim, through all of his > experiences, was amazement at not only the speed with which the Dream had > spread, but how it persevered, despite his divine guidance. This was a > mystery, to be sure, and one which he promised to investigate upon his final- > and, he never wavered in his confidence- inevitable ascension to Immortality. > His assurance was well justified, for Al-Kalim did indeed gain that desired > position of influence. His tasks completed, the Old Man of the Sea assisted > him with the transition to Immortality, then allowed his charge to go on his > way- perhaps to be called upon in the future, perhaps not; the Old Man of the > Sea was ever unpredictable. > After a period of adjustment to his new stature, and embarking upon some > distant explorations, the Immortal Al-Kalim recalled a promise made to himself > while still mortal. Returning his attentions to Mystara, he checked in on the > followers of the Dream of the Desert Garden. He monitored the progress they > had made over the period of his departure, and at their current status. And he > became alarmed. > Looking forward, through the futures he had witnessed as a mortal, he > noticed the same trends. Not fully convinced, the Immortal Al-Kalim studied > more, until the truth could no longer be in doubt. > Someone or Something had usurped his following. > It was the only thing that made sense. Mohammed Al-Kalim, the mortal, had > sought for Immortality so that he could continue to foster the Dream of the > Desert Garden among his fellow Ylari. He knew that the Dream, strong as it > was, could never attain the degree of commitment and following it needed > without the backing of the words of the Immortal Guardians. Yet somehow it > had. The followers of the Eternal Truth were not only surviving, they were > prospering. And many of them were able to call upon the powers of an Immortal > they knew as Al-Kalim- yet Al-Kalim knew that he was granting no such powers. > While questing as a mortal, he had been fearful that something might have > gone wrong. Yet he had held out hope that, perhaps, due to the vagaries of > time travel, the events he had witnessed in his name might have yet been > overseen by himself as an Immortal Guardian. Now he knew this was not the > truth. > At some point during his absence from mortal affairs, another of the > Immortal Guardians had usurped his calling, taking his name and leading his > fellow Ylari in the name of Al-Kalim. The Dream of the Desert Garden had been > co-opted by another Immortal, and the followers of the dream along with it. > For what nefarious purpose was not yet evident, but the visions of the future > Al-Kalim had experienced were a harrowing bit of foreshadowing. > The Immortal Al-Kalim took this evidence to the other Immortals. Surely, > such an event could not be allowed to transpire! Yet ever was he met with a > blind eye. First his patron, the Old Man of the Sea- apathetic as always- > turned him away. So it went, all the way to Khoronus, Hierarch of Time, who > wiped his hands of the affair, claiming fear of a temporal paradox if the > usurpation were to be undone. The Immortal Al-Kalim couldn't even learn the > true identity of the Immortal who had stolen his name and his followers. Was > the Dream of the Desert Garden to die along with the mortal Mohammed Al-Kalim, > as was his original fear? Was his quest on behalf of the Ylari for naught? > Only time may tell� > > The DM's Eternal Truth > > So what is the real truth? Who is the Immortal who has been masquerading as > Al-Kalim for over a century, and leading the factions of the desert nomads of > Ylaruam in their crusades? Someone with a dislike of other Immortals, that > much is true- why else would the Ylari abandon their ancient beliefs in the > multiple Immortal Guardians for a faith in only one Immortal, Al-Kalim? > Possibly it is someone with a long abiding interest in the Alasiyan desert > and its regions. Someone skilled at subtlety. Ranivorus, possibly, who > assisted in the corruption of the ancient Nithians of the same region? Or > Thanatos, the eternal Evil himself? > And what has become of the Immortal Al-Kalim? His following stolen out from > underneath him, his every effort to salvage his faith, or to discover the > identity of his enemy, met with apathy and sometimes disdain by his "fellow" > Immortals? Will he uncover the identity of his ancient enemy and take the > battle to the people- perhaps leading to the schism between the Preceptors and > Kin factions of the Ylari? Or will he become so angry towards the other > Immortals that he abandons his Dream of the Desert Garden and seeks revenge > against the system that would allow this to happen? > Yet another possibility- what of the strange new Immortal Gareth, who > claims to have returned from distant realms, and preaches against the > Immortals, and inspires mortals to independent thought and action? Might he be > the Immortal Al-Kalim, in another guise, using the tactics of his nameless > enemy- of adopting a new identity in order to usurp the followings of others? > Many questions, few answers. What is the Truth behind the Eternal Truth? I > don't know. Perhaps there is none. Or, perhaps as they say on a popular tv > show that I rarely watch, "the Truth is out there." It's for individual DM's > to discover. But I hope it's at least been interesting reading. :) > > Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:20:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Theisen ha scritto: > Here's the post I mentioned last night, though I can't recall now what it was > prompted by... oh, wait. I think it was James who mentioned something about > Al-Kalim's sudden following being something of a strange, fluke of the > Immortal business. Anyway, here it is. snip EXCELLENT!!! My Solarios, this is really AMUSING!!!! I'm just sorry for the fact that such a wonderful work has nothing to do with Outer Beings, and I can't put it on my site...sigh... Congratulations. Cohort! Hail Theisen! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:33:33 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Caroletti wrote: > >EXCELLENT!!! My Solarios, this is really AMUSING!!!! >I'm just sorry for the fact that such a wonderful work has nothing to do= >with Outer Beings, and I can't put it on my site...sigh... >Congratulations. >Cohort! Hail Theisen! Thanks! :) Oddly enough, when I was posting the questions bit at the end there, I wa= s wondering- "I wonder if I can somehow tie this in with the OBs?" Still wo= rking at it, though, so if I think of anything, I'll amend it. :) Incidentally, I should have some additional OB/Nightmare Dimensional rela= ted stuff that I've been working a bit with this week. HOpefully it'll be in = a useful form soon, so I'll keep you up to date. = Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:38:20 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Clay Postma Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re: [MYSTARA] ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/25/00 4:00:07 PM Mountain Standard Time, cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: << Of course, my theory is that both of these peoples (and possibly the Mazticans of FR- I don't know much about them) are actually descended from Earth (aka Laterre) Aztecs and similar peoples. But that's another story... >> And my "history" proceeds from the general idea that there are some 9ish planes of existence each having its own levels of order and chaos ranging from a technological futuristic plane to a post apocalyptic plane to Earth to Mystara etc...therefore accounting for the peoples who settled Blackmore...the strange similarities of cultures etc. Good and Evil play very little part in the cosmology with Order and Chaos being the primary players. Mystara is in the "Balance" zone of the planes with Order and Chaos in a constant struggle to sway the Balance to their side in order to gain dominance in the great Planear Conflict. Of course the prophet BOB (or whatever his name may be) is the avatar of Balance and works behind the scenes to thwart the plans of the Lords of Order and Chaos and keep the Balance in check. froggy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:08:58 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Martial Arts (was Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What martial arts system? I know about different martial arts, history, and lore and thought of modifying the current AD&D2e+++ system to that it more realistically reflects martial arts. Also though of adding alternative systems for monsters, like the MantisFolk north of the Herathians. And I wanted to add more special maneuvers and qi powers. Some martials arts: Aikido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that redirects opponent attacks into the ground or air, or simple disables them through joint manipulation. Jujitsu - Aikujitsu derived soft form that emphasizes wrestling tackles to render the opponent incapacitated. Sometimes borrows Karate maneuvers. Hapkido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that redirects kinetic force and energy in hard objects or fist/foot/knee. Mixes indigenous Korean martial arts. Karate - basic linear hard form with kicks, hard blocks, and strikes. (Shotokan/Okinawa styles) Kenpo - karate but mixes fast rapid repetitive attacks. Tae Kwon Do - Form know for arial acrobatics used to knock people off horses. Very deadly, but extremely limited for close quarters combat. Kung-Fu - This is too broad of a category. There are Kung-Fu's for strong people, another for fast people, etc. Some emphasize soft forms, others hard, most emphasize a particular animal. This is a slow progression, but once the person masters the basics, the feats are amazing and unbelievable. Caporia - Brazillian art that uses tackles and take downs through leg maneuvers. Very bizarre, but beautiful art. Tai-Chi - A soft form that uses redirection like Aikujitsu. It is really sophisticated, and has powerful qi (chi or ki) energy manipulation tactics. There are several others. There should be a martial art that fits the player's personality and ability scores. However, some arts might not be available for tutelage. The masters of sophisticated martial arts like earlier Kung-Fu styles are rarely taught. The studies that can prove themselves worthy are very rare. A lot of role play would be involved in getting access to this type of martial arts. More streamlined martial arts like Karate were used for military. When martial arts are used in combination, such as the Hapkido's close quart joint manipulation, combined with Tae Kwon Do's aerial knock-out kicks, the practitioner can be quite deadly. Interestingly, the citizens of South Korea are required to take these martial arts as part of their high school training and mandatory military training, in part due to fitness and national/ethical pride. Perhaps in Mystara, a whole nation could do the same. Maybe in these times they could be more Spartan, and apart of the training for youngsters is to go through rigorous training. -- On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:53:31 George Hrabovsky wrote: >Sorry, wrong guy. I did things like Karameikan Kick boxing, and stuff >under the weapon mastery rules. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Hevard >To: >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:03 AM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back... > > >> Welcome back! >> >> > Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on martial arts >> > systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I guess >> > that's about it for now. >> >> Were you the one who did all that martial arts/Spheres/Elements-stuff? >> >> Hevard >> >> >> Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >> http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa >> http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc >> >> ******************************************************************** >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >> Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:16:37 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re:[MYSTARA] Atruaghin adven...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Quetzalcoatl could actually be Atruaghin, then. Actually, this would be a good idea. Looking at the history, I could not help note the similarities between this story and the real history of Quetzalcoatl. Quetzalcoatl was supposedly the only white person on the southern continent at that time. He was also know as Kan, which some say is the same as the biblical Kain (Vampire lore?!?!?). When on the calendar he was suppose to return, they mistakenly mistook Quetzalcoatl for Cortez and thought of the horse to be some magical beast as they never saw this before. Well everyone knows the rest of the story. Aztecs = 0, Spanish = 10. I wander what Atruaghin is doing a I wonder if he poses as any other god. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:18:07 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture (was Re:[MYSTARA] ... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I actually wanted to get the Mazticans supplement to ideas to use with Mystara. However, that stuff is rather pricey on EBay. -- On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:38:20 Clay Postma wrote: >In a message dated 1/25/00 4:00:07 PM Mountain Standard Time, >cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: > ><< Of course, my theory is that both of these peoples (and possibly the >Mazticans > of FR- I don't know much about them) are actually descended from Earth (aka > Laterre) Aztecs and similar peoples. But that's another story... >> > >And my "history" proceeds from the general idea that there are some 9ish >planes of existence each having its own levels of order and chaos ranging >from a technological futuristic plane to a post apocalyptic plane to Earth to >Mystara etc...therefore accounting for the peoples who settled >Blackmore...the strange similarities of cultures etc. Good and Evil play >very little part in the cosmology with Order and Chaos being the primary >players. Mystara is in the "Balance" zone of the planes with Order and Chaos >in a constant struggle to sway the Balance to their side in order to gain >dominance in the great Planear Conflict. Of course the prophet BOB (or >whatever his name may be) is the avatar of Balance and works behind the >scenes to thwart the plans of the Lords of Order and Chaos and keep the >Balance in check. > >froggy > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:34:57 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Yo, er, not to destory your theory or anything, but the only evidence I've seen > thus far of al-Kalim followers attempting to supplant or destroy other immortal > followings was in Ierendi, > Are you saying that you think the Alaysians and other groups in Ylaruam didn't follow any Immortals until the rise of al-Kalim? If they did, then the faith of al-Kalim displaced the followings of the Immortals that were worshipped before he reached Immortality. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:03:04 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Ruhland wrote: > Are you saying that you think the Alaysians and other groups in Ylaruam > didn't follow any Immortals until the rise of al-Kalim? If they did, then > the faith of al-Kalim displaced the followings of the Immortals that were > worshipped before he reached Immortality. Well, considering that the former Immortals did squat to help the Alasiyans from becoming anything except a slave race to Thyatis or Alphatia, I don't think there was a major crime here. Especially considering that al-Kalim was a native Alasiyan, he should be prominent in his home nation. Also note that the current Emir of Ylaruam is a priest of Protius, not al-Kalim, so he is not the only Immortal worshipped in Ylaruam. That's part of what I've noticed, is that for some reason everyone has a pre-conceived notion that Ylaruam is a harsh one-immortal theocratic state. Okay, maybe it can be in your own campaign setting, no problem there, but the canon material seems to present otherwise. (With two exceptions. GAZ4 presents a fanatical bunch of followers of the Eternal Truth, but GAZ4 is a medicore job at best, and it could be argued that the followers there are a seperate cult. The Rules Cyclopedia says that the Ylari execute magic-users and elves, but this seems a complete mistake in comparison with the GAZ2 material, which says only fire and death magic is 'discouraged'. There is in fact an entire corp of mounted magic users that serve the Ylaruam military forces. So I would surmise the writer of the Cyclopedia material fell victim to the same misperception.) IronWolf > > Yo, er, not to destory your theory or anything, but the only evidence I've seen > thus far of al-Kalim followers attempting to supplant or destroy other immortal > followings was in Ierendi, which was a poorly written Gazateer anyway. There's > also a faction that believes foreigners are bad, whom al-Kalim allows to stay in > order to keep the Emirates from lapsing into a despotic form where only one > ideal is right. > > I think a lot of early interpretations of Ylaruam were colored by misconceptions > based upon real world Arabic cultures, notably those in the Middle East. *cough* > Saddam *cough* If you use WotI in your campaign, they clearly decided to take > advantage of the chaos during the war to give Thyatis a bit of payback, but > that's no clear evidence of fanaticism on part of their priests. > > To use the Savage Coast as an additional point, the nation of Saragon was > settled by Ylari immigrants, are are well known for their scholarly and tolerant > practices. Whereas in Navaraez, the priests of Vanya and Ixion are harsh, > fanatic, and pursue heretics with the full measure of the rope and stake. > > I don't know... say what you will, I've always like al-Kalim as far as Immortals > go. Sort of an example that you don't have to be a follower of ancient magics > and ideas to reach Immortality. > > IronWolf > > Andrew Theisen wrote: > > > > Here's the post I mentioned last night, though I can't recall now what it was > > prompted by... oh, wait. I think it was James who mentioned something about > > Al-Kalim's sudden following being something of a strange, fluke of the > > Immortal business. Anyway, here it is. > > > > ----------------- > > > > Al-Kalim was a follower of many Immortals during his lifetime, but now his > > followers tend to dismiss the belief in other Immortals? Why is this? And how > > was Al-Kalim able to garner such a tremendous following in such a short time? > > > > Perhaps the Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim isn't as true as it purports to be. > > > > The Truth Behind The Eternal Truth > > > > Once upon a time, there was a mortal named Mohammed Al-Kalim. Born in the > > desert wastes of the Alaysian basin, gifted with an extraordinary insight and > > abilities, this man had a vision. A vision of a lush, green valley, a > > bountiful oasis for his children, and his children's children. This was the > > Dream of the Desert Garden. > > No fool, the man knew that no such dream would come to pass in his > > lifetime. Such a dream would take decades, perhaps centuries, to reach > > fruition. Yet, for all the efforts he put into instilling his dream into his > > friends, companions, and followers, the dream would not come about without > > continued guidance. Not within a mortal lifespan. But, perhaps, in an > > Immortal's lifespan? > > Al-Kalim sought guidance from the Immortal Guardians of the desert people. > > The Gnoll, Zephyr, many, many more. Their advice and influence led him, > > appropriately enough, to the Old Man of the Sea- for where else should the > > Dream of the Desert Garden lead but to water? > > The Old Man of the Sea was notoriously apathetic towards the plight of the > > land dwellers, and so Al-Kalim embarked on a series of increasingly dangerous > > tasks in order to prove his devotion and worth to the Immortal Guardian. > > Finally, convinced of the mortal's sincerity, the Old Man of the Sea revealed > > to Al-Kalim what the mortal must do in order to ascend into the ranks of the > > Guardians. Al-Kalim accepted his tasks generously, and determinedly. > > Eventually, the pursuit of his tasks led Al-Kalim to divorce himself from > > the connections to his mortal life. He left his Dream in the hands of trusted > > followers and friends, and allowed the world to believe him dead. Then he > > resumed his tasks, confident that he would succeed and become an Immortal > > Guardian. From his position on high, Al-Kalim would be able to oversee the > > efforts of his fellow desert dwellers, and assist them in the pursuit of his- > > now their- Dream of the Desert Garden. Never looking back, Al-Kalim strode out > > into the Alaysian desert to complete his quests. > > For ages untold did Al-Kalim quest for his goal, for his quests took him > > not merely to distant places, but to distant times, as well. Al-Kalim > > witnessed many disturbing events as he sought to ensure the continuance of the > > nation he had helped found. Divisiveness within Ylaruam- factions fighting one > > another, losing sight of the common dream; Military invasions- both mortal and > > demonic; and more. Of most curiosity to Al-Kalim, through all of his > > experiences, was amazement at not only the speed with which the Dream had > > spread, but how it persevered, despite his divine guidance. This was a > > mystery, to be sure, and one which he promised to investigate upon his final- > > and, he never wavered in his confidence- inevitable ascension to Immortality. > > His assurance was well justified, for Al-Kalim did indeed gain that desired > > position of influence. His tasks completed, the Old Man of the Sea assisted > > him with the transition to Immortality, then allowed his charge to go on his > > way- perhaps to be called upon in the future, perhaps not; the Old Man of the > > Sea was ever unpredictable. > > After a period of adjustment to his new stature, and embarking upon some > > distant explorations, the Immortal Al-Kalim recalled a promise made to himself > > while still mortal. Returning his attentions to Mystara, he checked in on the > > followers of the Dream of the Desert Garden. He monitored the progress they > > had made over the period of his departure, and at their current status. And he > > became alarmed. > > Looking forward, through the futures he had witnessed as a mortal, he > > noticed the same trends. Not fully convinced, the Immortal Al-Kalim studied > > more, until the truth could no longer be in doubt. > > Someone or Something had usurped his following. > > It was the only thing that made sense. Mohammed Al-Kalim, the mortal, had > > sought for Immortality so that he could continue to foster the Dream of the > > Desert Garden among his fellow Ylari. He knew that the Dream, strong as it > > was, could never attain the degree of commitment and following it needed > > without the backing of the words of the Immortal Guardians. Yet somehow it > > had. The followers of the Eternal Truth were not only surviving, they were > > prospering. And many of them were able to call upon the powers of an Immortal > > they knew as Al-Kalim- yet Al-Kalim knew that he was granting no such powers. > > While questing as a mortal, he had been fearful that something might have > > gone wrong. Yet he had held out hope that, perhaps, due to the vagaries of > > time travel, the events he had witnessed in his name might have yet been > > overseen by himself as an Immortal Guardian. Now he knew this was not the > > truth. > > At some point during his absence from mortal affairs, another of the > > Immortal Guardians had usurped his calling, taking his name and leading his > > fellow Ylari in the name of Al-Kalim. The Dream of the Desert Garden had been > > co-opted by another Immortal, and the followers of the dream along with it. > > For what nefarious purpose was not yet evident, but the visions of the future > > Al-Kalim had experienced were a harrowing bit of foreshadowing. > > The Immortal Al-Kalim took this evidence to the other Immortals. Surely, > > such an event could not be allowed to transpire! Yet ever was he met with a > > blind eye. First his patron, the Old Man of the Sea- apathetic as always- > > turned him away. So it went, all the way to Khoronus, Hierarch of Time, who > > wiped his hands of the affair, claiming fear of a temporal paradox if the > > usurpation were to be undone. The Immortal Al-Kalim couldn't even learn the > > true identity of the Immortal who had stolen his name and his followers. Was > > the Dream of the Desert Garden to die along with the mortal Mohammed Al-Kalim, > > as was his original fear? Was his quest on behalf of the Ylari for naught? > > Only time may tell� > > > > The DM's Eternal Truth > > > > So what is the real truth? Who is the Immortal who has been masquerading as > > Al-Kalim for over a century, and leading the factions of the desert nomads of > > Ylaruam in their crusades? Someone with a dislike of other Immortals, that > > much is true- why else would the Ylari abandon their ancient beliefs in the > > multiple Immortal Guardians for a faith in only one Immortal, Al-Kalim? > > Possibly it is someone with a long abiding interest in the Alasiyan desert > > and its regions. Someone skilled at subtlety. Ranivorus, possibly, who > > assisted in the corruption of the ancient Nithians of the same region? Or > > Thanatos, the eternal Evil himself? > > And what has become of the Immortal Al-Kalim? His following stolen out from > > underneath him, his every effort to salvage his faith, or to discover the > > identity of his enemy, met with apathy and sometimes disdain by his "fellow" > > Immortals? Will he uncover the identity of his ancient enemy and take the > > battle to the people- perhaps leading to the schism between the Preceptors and > > Kin factions of the Ylari? Or will he become so angry towards the other > > Immortals that he abandons his Dream of the Desert Garden and seeks revenge > > against the system that would allow this to happen? > > Yet another possibility- what of the strange new Immortal Gareth, who > > claims to have returned from distant realms, and preaches against the > > Immortals, and inspires mortals to independent thought and action? Might he be > > the Immortal Al-Kalim, in another guise, using the tactics of his nameless > > enemy- of adopting a new identity in order to usurp the followings of others? > > Many questions, few answers. What is the Truth behind the Eternal Truth? I > > don't know. Perhaps there is none. Or, perhaps as they say on a popular tv > > show that I rarely watch, "the Truth is out there." It's for individual DM's > > to discover. But I hope it's at least been interesting reading. :) > > > > Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:26:56 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth Comments: To: ironwolf@ewa.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Well, considering that the former Immortals did squat to help the Alasiyans from > becoming anything except a slave race to Thyatis or Alphatia, I don't think > there was a major crime here. Especially considering that al-Kalim was a native > Alasiyan, he should be prominent in his home nation. > I'm not saying it was a major crime to turn away from them, all I'm saying is that the notion you expressed before seemed a bit. . .um, high strung, I guess I would call it. Now, if Ylaruam is a fluffy-bunny land in your campaign that's fine. And I've expressed my opinion of how the Gaz's tend to describe almost every place they are touching on as being in some kind of golden age of peace and prosperity before - Ylaruam is no exception, one way or the other. Just the other day, you and I were commiserating about the grip of canon on people, and here we are. . . . Someone posted an interesting *alternate* way of treating Ylaruam, and you jump all over him: > > > > Yo, er, not to destory your theory or anything, but the only evidence I've seen > > thus far of al-Kalim followers attempting to supplant or destroy other immortal > > followings was in Ierendi, which was a poorly written Gazateer anyway. There's > > also a faction that believes foreigners are bad, whom al-Kalim allows to stay in > > order to keep the Emirates from lapsing into a despotic form where only one > > ideal is right. > > > > I think a lot of early interpretations of Ylaruam were colored by misconceptions > > based upon real world Arabic cultures, notably those in the Middle East. *cough* > > Saddam *cough* If you use WotI in your campaign, they clearly decided to take > > advantage of the chaos during the war to give Thyatis a bit of payback, but > > that's no clear evidence of fanaticism on part of their priests. > > > > To use the Savage Coast as an additional point, the nation of Saragon was > > settled by Ylari immigrants, are are well known for their scholarly and tolerant > > practices. Whereas in Navaraez, the priests of Vanya and Ixion are harsh, > > fanatic, and pursue heretics with the full measure of the rope and stake. > > > > I don't know... say what you will, I've always like al-Kalim as far as Immortals > > go. Sort of an example that you don't have to be a follower of ancient magics > > and ideas to reach Immortality. > > > > IronWolf > > > > Andrew Theisen wrote: > > > > > > Here's the post I mentioned last night, though I can't recall now what it was > > > prompted by... oh, wait. I think it was James who mentioned something about > > > Al-Kalim's sudden following being something of a strange, fluke of the > > > Immortal business. Anyway, here it is. > > > > > > ----------------- > > > > > > Al-Kalim was a follower of many Immortals during his lifetime, but now his > > > followers tend to dismiss the belief in other Immortals? Why is this? And how > > > was Al-Kalim able to garner such a tremendous following in such a short time? > > > > > > Perhaps the Eternal Truth of Al-Kalim isn't as true as it purports to be. > > > > > > The Truth Behind The Eternal Truth > > > > > > Once upon a time, there was a mortal named Mohammed Al-Kalim. Born in the > > > desert wastes of the Alaysian basin, gifted with an extraordinary insight and > > > abilities, this man had a vision. A vision of a lush, green valley, a > > > bountiful oasis for his children, and his children's children. This was the > > > Dream of the Desert Garden. > > > No fool, the man knew that no such dream would come to pass in his > > > lifetime. Such a dream would take decades, perhaps centuries, to reach > > > fruition. Yet, for all the efforts he put into instilling his dream into his > > > friends, companions, and followers, the dream would not come about without > > > continued guidance. Not within a mortal lifespan. But, perhaps, in an > > > Immortal's lifespan? > > > Al-Kalim sought guidance from the Immortal Guardians of the desert people. > > > The Gnoll, Zephyr, many, many more. Their advice and influence led him, > > > appropriately enough, to the Old Man of the Sea- for where else should the > > > Dream of the Desert Garden lead but to water? > > > The Old Man of the Sea was notoriously apathetic towards the plight of the > > > land dwellers, and so Al-Kalim embarked on a series of increasingly dangerous > > > tasks in order to prove his devotion and worth to the Immortal Guardian. > > > Finally, convinced of the mortal's sincerity, the Old Man of the Sea revealed > > > to Al-Kalim what the mortal must do in order to ascend into the ranks of the > > > Guardians. Al-Kalim accepted his tasks generously, and determinedly. > > > Eventually, the pursuit of his tasks led Al-Kalim to divorce himself from > > > the connections to his mortal life. He left his Dream in the hands of trusted > > > followers and friends, and allowed the world to believe him dead. Then he > > > resumed his tasks, confident that he would succeed and become an Immortal > > > Guardian. From his position on high, Al-Kalim would be able to oversee the > > > efforts of his fellow desert dwellers, and assist them in the pursuit of his- > > > now their- Dream of the Desert Garden. Never looking back, Al-Kalim strode out > > > into the Alaysian desert to complete his quests. > > > For ages untold did Al-Kalim quest for his goal, for his quests took him > > > not merely to distant places, but to distant times, as well. Al-Kalim > > > witnessed many disturbing events as he sought to ensure the continuance of the > > > nation he had helped found. Divisiveness within Ylaruam- factions fighting one > > > another, losing sight of the common dream; Military invasions- both mortal and > > > demonic; and more. Of most curiosity to Al-Kalim, through all of his > > > experiences, was amazement at not only the speed with which the Dream had > > > spread, but how it persevered, despite his divine guidance. This was a > > > mystery, to be sure, and one which he promised to investigate upon his final- > > > and, he never wavered in his confidence- inevitable ascension to Immortality. > > > His assurance was well justified, for Al-Kalim did indeed gain that desired > > > position of influence. His tasks completed, the Old Man of the Sea assisted > > > him with the transition to Immortality, then allowed his charge to go on his > > > way- perhaps to be called upon in the future, perhaps not; the Old Man of the > > > Sea was ever unpredictable. > > > After a period of adjustment to his new stature, and embarking upon some > > > distant explorations, the Immortal Al-Kalim recalled a promise made to himself > > > while still mortal. Returning his attentions to Mystara, he checked in on the > > > followers of the Dream of the Desert Garden. He monitored the progress they > > > had made over the period of his departure, and at their current status. And he > > > became alarmed. > > > Looking forward, through the futures he had witnessed as a mortal, he > > > noticed the same trends. Not fully convinced, the Immortal Al-Kalim studied > > > more, until the truth could no longer be in doubt. > > > Someone or Something had usurped his following. > > > It was the only thing that made sense. Mohammed Al-Kalim, the mortal, had > > > sought for Immortality so that he could continue to foster the Dream of the > > > Desert Garden among his fellow Ylari. He knew that the Dream, strong as it > > > was, could never attain the degree of commitment and following it needed > > > without the backing of the words of the Immortal Guardians. Yet somehow it > > > had. The followers of the Eternal Truth were not only surviving, they were > > > prospering. And many of them were able to call upon the powers of an Immortal > > > they knew as Al-Kalim- yet Al-Kalim knew that he was granting no such powers. > > > While questing as a mortal, he had been fearful that something might have > > > gone wrong. Yet he had held out hope that, perhaps, due to the vagaries of > > > time travel, the events he had witnessed in his name might have yet been > > > overseen by himself as an Immortal Guardian. Now he knew this was not the > > > truth. > > > At some point during his absence from mortal affairs, another of the > > > Immortal Guardians had usurped his calling, taking his name and leading his > > > fellow Ylari in the name of Al-Kalim. The Dream of the Desert Garden had been > > > co-opted by another Immortal, and the followers of the dream along with it. > > > For what nefarious purpose was not yet evident, but the visions of the future > > > Al-Kalim had experienced were a harrowing bit of foreshadowing. > > > The Immortal Al-Kalim took this evidence to the other Immortals. Surely, > > > such an event could not be allowed to transpire! Yet ever was he met with a > > > blind eye. First his patron, the Old Man of the Sea- apathetic as always- > > > turned him away. So it went, all the way to Khoronus, Hierarch of Time, who > > > wiped his hands of the affair, claiming fear of a temporal paradox if the > > > usurpation were to be undone. The Immortal Al-Kalim couldn't even learn the > > > true identity of the Immortal who had stolen his name and his followers. Was > > > the Dream of the Desert Garden to die along with the mortal Mohammed Al-Kalim, > > > as was his original fear? Was his quest on behalf of the Ylari for naught? > > > Only time may tell� > > > > > > The DM's Eternal Truth > > > > > > So what is the real truth? Who is the Immortal who has been masquerading as > > > Al-Kalim for over a century, and leading the factions of the desert nomads of > > > Ylaruam in their crusades? Someone with a dislike of other Immortals, that > > > much is true- why else would the Ylari abandon their ancient beliefs in the > > > multiple Immortal Guardians for a faith in only one Immortal, Al-Kalim? > > > Possibly it is someone with a long abiding interest in the Alasiyan desert > > > and its regions. Someone skilled at subtlety. Ranivorus, possibly, who > > > assisted in the corruption of the ancient Nithians of the same region? Or > > > Thanatos, the eternal Evil himself? > > > And what has become of the Immortal Al-Kalim? His following stolen out from > > > underneath him, his every effort to salvage his faith, or to discover the > > > identity of his enemy, met with apathy and sometimes disdain by his "fellow" > > > Immortals? Will he uncover the identity of his ancient enemy and take the > > > battle to the people- perhaps leading to the schism between the Preceptors and > > > Kin factions of the Ylari? Or will he become so angry towards the other > > > Immortals that he abandons his Dream of the Desert Garden and seeks revenge > > > against the system that would allow this to happen? > > > Yet another possibility- what of the strange new Immortal Gareth, who > > > claims to have returned from distant realms, and preaches against the > > > Immortals, and inspires mortals to independent thought and action? Might he be > > > the Immortal Al-Kalim, in another guise, using the tactics of his nameless > > > enemy- of adopting a new identity in order to usurp the followings of others? > > > Many questions, few answers. What is the Truth behind the Eternal Truth? I > > > don't know. Perhaps there is none. Or, perhaps as they say on a popular tv > > > show that I rarely watch, "the Truth is out there." It's for individual DM's > > > to discover. But I hope it's at least been interesting reading. :) > > > > > > Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 17:42:18 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth Comments: To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Ruhland wrote: > > I'm not saying it was a major crime to turn away from them, all I'm saying > is that the notion you expressed before seemed a bit. . .um, high strung, I > guess I would call it. Now, if Ylaruam is a fluffy-bunny land in your > campaign that's fine. And I've expressed my opinion of how the Gaz's tend > to describe almost every place they are touching on as being in some kind > of golden age of peace and prosperity before - Ylaruam is no exception, one > way or the other. Just the other day, you and I were commiserating about > the grip of canon on people, and here we are. . . . > Someone posted an interesting *alternate* way of treating Ylaruam, and you > jump all over him: High-strung? Jumping all over him? I was merely providing constructive criticism based upon the facts I've read. One of his beginning statements was: > Al-Kalim was a follower of many Immortals during his lifetime, but now his followers tend to dismiss the belief in other Immortals? I was saying "That's news to me, because as an example the current Sultan is actually a priest of Protius." (I said Emir before, got the title wrong.) The GAZ2 material states Ylaruam is noted for it's encouragement of scholarship, study, and research. There is a faction in the Ylari nobility which are focused on keeping foreigners and foreigner ways out of Ylaruam, and are more militant, and they survive because al-Kalim wanted them to as a counter-balance. Maybe I don't agree with his treatment of an alternate Ylaruam, but I'm certainly not trying to undermine it. I'm merely trying to help him fix any holes a skeptic, such as myself, might find so he can improve the product. Obviously if there is a 'false' al-Kalim, he's just a darn sneakier fellow than we thought, slowly building the state into a nation of fanatic zealots. (Call him al-Saddam, heh.) IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 19:43:23 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: The Truth Behind the Eternal Truth Comments: To: ironwolf@ewa.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Default Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Maybe I don't agree with his treatment of an alternate Ylaruam, but I'm > certainly not trying to undermine it. > Ok 8-). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:58:55 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This REALLY makes me ANGERED and really FURIOUS. > And obviously they are able to conquer the world already in 1012, > while Thyatis faces problems everywhere. > I don't care of Thyatis facing problems. It's obvious, when you have had to > face such a devastating war...but why is Alphatia PERFECT? > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!! > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (x 1'000'000). > Giulio > This time NOT speaking through the voice of the much renowned > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis Ho-hum. *YAAAAWWWWNNNN* Oh? Pardon me for the lack of ardent passion in the discussion on the... what was the topic again? Oh yes, Immortals! Those things... What can you expect from us godless wizard? Kit Navarro Paparazzi Glantri fanavarro@pacific.net.ph "Those who cannot cast magic, beg for some" --a Glantrian idiom, referring to priests and clerical magic ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:59:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One additional note for Highforge: Those gnomes would need to do something to limit the number of dwarves who leave Highforge to go adventuring, lest the Karameikans notice that there are far more dwarvish adventurers than should be possible from a population of only a thousand or so. Perhaps they send them to Rockhome first? The gnomes themselves have a similar problem, with a slightly larger official population but no real alternative locations that the excess gnomish adventurers can claim to be from. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:11:15 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/22/00 1:51:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << The question isn't "why does Alphatia have fighters?" but rather "why were they portrayed as having better fighters than places that are known for their fighters?" A question you didn't answer, and really can't be answered unless one says "because they are Alphatians, and therefore superior in every way to any other nation on Mystara" - the Dupuisian answer.>> why PWA2 has them elevated to such a degree is beyond me. but yes i agree that much of it has to do with the scripting of the Wrath combatants in general. however, i would say that just because a nation or people are known for magic, that does not immediately disqualify them as fighters. alphatia is huge....with or without Belly, the Alatians, and its portions of the IoD....and spellcasters represent a minority within its population of millions. the alphers are mostly rural and lack the structure of an urban environment (guards to protect). in alphatia wealth and power are the recognized signs of status. spellcasters benefit from the society's leniency to spellcasters and the automatic incomes their spells bring. with a ruling class of chaotic legalized bullies the mundaners are forced to pursue their own classes just to compete against the mages and clerics and to prove an alphatian worthiness...so to speak. though not spellcasters a mundaner is forced to be the best fighter, thief he can be to carve a niche in alpher society of personal power and wealth. the situation might be more different if DotE mentioned a mage quelling of the martial arts to insure their own supremecy. however i think that the mage mindset sees the typical fighter as being too inferior to even be worried with. > as for the pwa OOBs, i agree that they represent the intent as DotE, WotI, HW > box and the PWA1/2 were all penned by Aaron Allston. > PWA2 was not penned by Allston, it was written by Dupuis.>> oops...my mistake....especially since the thing was and is sitting right in front of me. however it should be noted what other mystaran work Allston penned....Kara Gaz. anyway....Allston was handed the keys to Mystara's future and the setting promotes his shift from pre-wrath alph/thyatian spheres of influence to a karameikan role. with all of the preceding sources setting a certain manner for mystara's future, subsequent mystara works carried on that attribute. if i am overly hard or wrongfully pointing fingers at AA then i wish that Bruce or some of the other TSR folks would clarify. i'd hate to be overly critical of Allston if the general theme was not his doing but a hand me down from higher ups. <> it is just that for a rivalry so aged and focal, the closure that Wrath offered was anticlimactic. alpher victory is pegged as being being due to a certain series of events and not the vicious fighting that the war (final showdown) should have had. a war to settle matters was pegged as being ultimately disasterous to both empires...thus the developement of a stalemate/cold war nature. with the addition of glantri and the HKs, wrath implies the war was virtually won by alph even before it was declared....the real battle being the alphers getting motivated to fight. the tooth and nail fighting is further eroded by beneficial turn of events that favored alph and nullified the glantri and HK alliances. for a war that was supposed to be alph vs. glantri thyatis bore the brunt and overshadowed the cause of the war. wrath gave alph few real allies. the ally that seemed most beneficial was "murphy's law" which seemed to affect thyatis at every turn. wrath offers little in the way of glory for thyatis. their history as a military power and driving force in mystara were destroyed in four years through "we got screwed" types of events. > > i won't dispute the napoleonic ties of the sharpshooter. however given that > most mystaran nations are wedged into a medieval/renaissance mold...the > napoleonic period and its rifles are a bit beyond them. > Not nessissarily. Characters, and armies, will develop tactics based upon the challenges they face, just as in real life. This is where the fact that we aren't playing in a completely medieval/renaissance world comes into play - magic has been around for millenia, as folks who like to harp upon how adept those who use magic are in developing sound tactics and strategies for employing it like to point out. So too will non-spellcasters develop sound tactics and strategies for dealing with it. They won't just stand around with a dull look on their face and get shreaded, nor will they march into range and form up in tight groups so they can be efficiently dispatched by the battlefield boltmen. They will react intelligently, something I thought you were arguing for earlier (re the intelligent enemy). Sharpshooters? In a game where folks can have various levels of mastery of weapons (OD&D) or specialization in their use (AD&D), of course there will be "sharpshooter" bowmen. >> i agree that there will be specially assigned troop types for each side. that's the difference between issuing bows to your F1s and specifically training them for use in the battles. whether it's sharpshooters, yeoman (i think there is a difference between the two), heavy infantry, light infantry, light cav, heavy cav, etc. specific training comes into play to fill the battlefield arsenal with a multifacetted force. that the combatants are medieval/renaissance justify their multifacetted composition. however, being medieval/renaissance keeps military adjustments to focus mainly on tactics. not being industrialized, neither could retool and reequip their armies with better weapons and armors in such a short period. the craftsmen industrial base would have to focus on equipping reinforcements and replacements. thus the armies are left with what they started with as standing forces, reserve forces, and surplus armaments depots. <> yes i objected. i also noted the use of mass casualties in a charge to both sides. the trick to overcoming the established kill zones would be through maneuver, either avoiding the kill zone or offering countermeasures (tortoise formation). i noted these...if i wasn't clear on them i appologize....but i did note them for both sides. a trench type war makes it a matter of facing the kill zone directly. a trench war is unfeasible as it requires too many men to offer a strong enough line. even without Helskir, we're talking about over 1,000 miles of front to cover. that eats up alot of men and spreads them out pretty thin. trenches or no trenches, i would focus on regional fronts protecting the approach to certain cities. offer a forward scouts to monitor enemy movements and allow the fronts to move to block any approaching forces. > > well they do have a history as an imperialist people...though admitedly most > of their expansion is based within their first century or so upon mystara. > Not true. The Alphers didn't get into Esterhold until well after the Thyatian revolt (a couple centuries as I recall), and moved into Norwold this current time only in AC 985 per DotE. In between they made a number of other attempts at expansion (Minrothad's "Alphatian Cauldera," Ylaruam, Glantri being the most noitable ones - on, and Thyatis itself). They haven't been essentially pacific since 100 AY as you imply.>> note that i said "most". i was talking about the alpher continent and belly which are the bulk of the alph land holdings. with this initial land grab, the need to expand was minimal. population numbers per square mile are still pitifully small. other more recent expansion actions seem to be more ornamental or based on military or trade needs than the need for living space or natural resources. many even denote a quasi-private enterprise/venture founding in their attempt. > actually i agree that thyatis would have a degree of magic within their > forces beyond the RAF and clerical contributions. however, the efficiency > clause may limit their integration of mages into the armed forces. > A meritricious argument if there ever was one. Of course the Thyatians would, on account of efficiency, employ magic in their armed forces, just as one who wants an efficient modern army employs combined arms. Read the Player's Guide to Thyatis section on Thyatians & Magic. Clearly they see it as efficient. Also, one of the main reasons Thyatis is mentioned as supporting the development of mages & clerics is to counterbalance Alphatia's strength in those areas. And yet you argue that they won't use it against Alphatia, by limiting their integration into the armed forces?>> nope....for thyatis it depends on efficiency. integrating mages into the rank and file means weakening the rank and file to provide protection to the physically weak and costly mages. it depends on what firepower these mages can bring to thyatian formations as compared to the cost. alph on the other hand has that magic stereotype and is therefore obliged to have a magical contingent in the armies, despite the costs to efficiency. alot depends on how the mages are implemented into the rank and file. for warmachine rules magicusers are more a % based bonus. with its greater ratio of mages alph can better alot the required % of mages to gain the BR bonuses. thyatis would have to consolidate its smaller pool of mages to man certain divisions with mages to get the %, by taking mages from other divisions and leaving them completely fighter based. of course that does not offer how they are used, just a deployment of numbers to garner warmachine bonuses. << I have to scoff openly at that. I appologize if that seems harsh, but here is where I see the dichotomy between how you think the Alphatians ought to act and how you think the Thyatians should, with the benifit going to the former - you state that the Alphatian's units of boltmen can (rather efficiently) dispatch five or ten times their number of opposing troops, but suggest that the Thyatians would not use mages to achieve the same effect, for reasons of "efficiency." That again seems to be somewhat inconsistant of you.>> the pros and cons of mages were intended to be more universal than biased. it becomes a matter of who wants mages and who needs mages in their forces and what benefits are gained for the respective empires. it was not my intent to offer examples as sole domain to one side or the other. if anything it was point/counterpoint and applicable to both. the boltmen's efficiency is a testament to rates of fire, hits, damage, and casualty rates based on range. as with any troop type boltmen are not the cornerstone of an army formation, just like an archer or infantryman cannot be the lone entity. instead they form the short range boost to firepower. however, without the long range umbrella of arrows and the like they are dead or at least pulled back out of range where their spells are of little use. for a boltman to operate they need infantry support to protect them against assailants. mages are more shoot and run types due to their limited physical abilities. at low level they are more like archers with one or two arrows in their quivers. <> clerics imo are the best implementation of a spellcaster on the battlefield. as spellcasting fighters they fill two roles and have a better survivability rate than a mage once their offensive spells are used up. i would also think that a cleric among the ranks would offer a morale boost to the troops...."the immortals are with us". conversely low level mages are one or two shot wonders before being forced from a battlefield. it's only with ascension to higher levels that the spell inventory extends their battlefield use; greater offensive inventory and better survivability through spells. > > overdoing things especially if the support a reasonable kit. and speaking of > kits, if we introduce the sharpshooter kit we should introduce a improved > mage kit. fair is fair. > I don't think Rob was talking about an additional kit - I think he was refering to using the rules for Fighters as they already exist. I love it when as a result of Fighters using what they already have access to (Specialization), the argument is made that it's "only fair" that mages get one more benifit than they already have. See my thread about how the mage class has already been built into being the one class superior to all others; and now you say they need one more benifit. The lavish devotion to new spells, new spellcasting crafts, and yes new kits and abilities for mages is rarely met with the cry "well, if you're going to introduce that, then it's only fair to build up the humble thief some," let alone the humble fighter (until, of course, I recently brought up the subject) - but let Rob mention sharpshooters to counter-act the uberBoltmen, and the cry of "fair is fair" rings out across the land. . .Already we're at a situation where there is only one class that people can regularly argue can defeat entire armies singlehandedly (I.E. someone's argument re. a specific Glantrian Prince vs. the army of Ethengar) - and it certainly isn't Clerics, Thieves, Bards, Mystics, or Fighters. But it is "fair is fair, the mage needs something more" if someone mentions giving Fighters an equalizer vs. mages. Sorry to rant about this, but it's one of my current vexations (again, I have many).>> "fair is fair" means that if a rational class derivative or use is created, then a derivative for another class is possible. the boltmen are established as a kit....so i am not uber-izing them or the mage class to produce them. as are, boltmen are low level mages with their "quivers of spells" filled through the additional spells granted by their wands. mages can also specialize in a school of magic to bolster spell inventories. mages are rather one dimensional with their spells governing their impact. how the spells are used dictate how good a mage is. > > corruption. and the general inference of DotE is that thyatis was in its own > decline approaching Wrath. > I quote from DotE, DMSB, p.5, collumn 3: "Ironically, it was that invasion [the Spike Assault -Porph] that helped turn the empire's invisible decline around. . ." {para continues}. In other words, by AC 1000, Thyatis' decline has supposedly reversed itself. Only later and in this forum by certain folks who know who they are is that decline portrayed as ongoing, with immediate and effectively irreversable results (wheras no Alphatian decline is ever considered to affect anything truely important or have any significant consiquences).>> truthfully i see the decline as ongoing up to Wrath, just displaced a bit. it's presence making the full disclosure with Wrath as the officer corp being exposed with bought commissions/appointments and subject to easier corruption through zzonga. however i would point out that my vision of decline was not one of the empire folding from the inside. more like thyatis was losing focus in an imperial sense and unity. the lessons learned at the alphatian spike being lost in the following generations. if anything the Valerias manipulations with zzonga brought to attention the officer deficiencies, the bulk being lost through combat. if an immortal has to be blamed for misconduct in the war i'd offer Vanya whose conduct dismissed the field situations and kept the thyatian warmachine from adapting at the imperial level. remember that she wanted the war to continue even when the alphers were knocking at the gates of thycity. > > while DotE mentions that military matters are left to fighter types. it also > mentions that the fighters handle the military in a practical manner. > Yes - it says that they don't arm the troops with bagpipes and daggers. However, no where that I have found does it openly say that Alphatia's troops are good, as you asserted in another post. They may be, or they may not be good. I'd argue that they are fairly competent, good, but not overwhelmingly so as portrayed in PWAII's OOBs.>> it does say that the forces are kept to adequate levels. given that thyatis is the intended adversary, it is feasible that the armed forces are engineered to meet that thyatian force on equal terms. obviously the bagpipes and daggers are a reference to alpher fashionability and the lack of mage focus in military matters. the weapons offered just below that unneeded reference are consistant to those used in thyatis or any other mystaran kingdoms. as for the PWA2 OOBs i have already stated my disapproval in their structure. i think that the problem could be easily fixed through a sentence or two of explanation denoting where they came from and why they are so high in level. anyway...the hw-alph forces are a nonfactor in hw as long as the hands off approach is adhered to by the alphers. realistic or not...take solace that they are landlocked in hw and not assembled on the SW. > > of adequate funding. with the existance of the imperial sky navy with its > untold billions of gps worth of man-of-wars, > Where does it say that they had and spent billion of gps on Men-of-War? That's your interpretation that Alphatia has a skyship navy of circa 500 Men-of-War ("billions" of gps worth). I can't find any numbers one way or another on that.>> i don't have CoM handy....but a man-of-war isn't cheap. given the fleet status and the developement of a countering RAF it is feasible that there were great numbers of them. i would not say there was 500 of them. however the cost of construction, maintenance, and manning them would tally up into the billions. neither DotE, Wrath, or CoM mention the numbers in the skyship fleet. however there is mention of the vague high cost to maintain the fleet and the opposition to its cost. > > wrath, denoting strong existing armies for both. also remember that before > wrath you had General Torenal....who was a devout fighter and planned his > fate with an epic fight with thyatis and thincol. > Which brings up another point - the Alphers lose their best general and planner right before the war, but don't seem to miss a beat. Also, Zzonga is supposedly an Alphatian thing, but we only ever hear of Thyatians using it. I found this a bit odd, myself. I'm sure others think that is perfectly normal (for those people, I refer you to "History of Alphatia (Revised)" - you have my permission as author of that to use it in your campaigns).>> torenal's loss was a blow to the imperial guard. however i think his influence would have already been seen in competant staff and command officers and adequate military units. as for zzonga i think that its use in alph was a given. however i don't see it as being used by the majority of the spellcasters as it obstructs the key alph attributes; power and wealth accumulation. instead i think it is fairly understood which zzonga addicts are present and which mages can be reliable. on the other hand...thyatis has had little experience in zzonga addiction and therefore were caught unaware by its use. > as mages, a mere fighter is nothing to be feared. > Yes, quite. See what I said above regarding the imbalance in how people portray the character classes in D&D these days. See also what I have said in the past about people adopting the mindset of the Alphatian ruling class as if it were objectively true in every respect. 8-)>> just to be safe let me clarify. "nothing to be feared" applies from the alpher mage mentality and point of view. as percieved inferiors and with the law bolstering their feelings, an upstart alph M3 may feel no qualms about belittling a F15. one on one the fighter would clean the mage's clock, however in doing so he greets alpher law attention. with the F15 having to grin and bear it, the superiority complex is further heightened. personally i have always avoided playing mages as PCs. even with alpher PCs i tended to focus more on fighters, clerics and elves. in particular i always found the fighters as being the key to finding adventure inside alpher society. > often associated with being a slave inside alpher lands. this is not entirely > true. though second class, mundaners are only second to the noble class > mages/clerics. the spellcasters being a noble class are really no different > than other lands and their divinity of nobility. > This isn't entirely true. Read the section on the Alphatian "Servant Class" and compare it with the section on Thyatis' "Slave Class" - you'll find that there are more similarities than differences in how Thyatis treats its slaves and how Alphatia treats its servant class (which would be the bulk of Alphatia's population - or the bulk when you include the actual slaves). Also read the section on p.2 of the Player's Guide to Alphatia - "coorespondence of an Ierendian Traveler". Alphatia doesn't treat its commoners the same way every other nation does (do they treat them the same as Darokin does? as Glantri? as Ylaruam? Any other nation you can mention?) - not unless one entirely reshapes Alphatia and throws out the DotE materiel and goes with Dupuis in refering to "Alphatian Citizenship" - which I guess many have by this point. But, no, Alphatia is not "no different than other lands." well...glantri does tax the bahjeebaz out of the populace to fund the magocracy. but that asside i don't think you can equate equal comparisons to any kingdom in its mainstream populace. i am sure that an average darokin would scoff at the average lifestyle of a karameikan. > > than other lands and their divinity of nobility. the difference is that > alphers are not granted noble status just because of birth. > Again untrue since the Alph. Guide "strongly infers" that the ability to become a spellcaster, and thus a noble, is a strongly heritable trait. In other words, it comes from birth, and seems to be "recessive" at that (thus Eriadna's children by Torenal all being mere mundaines). Alphatia is far from a "cream rises to the top meritocracy".>> but just because mom and dad are spellcasters does not insure that junior will be one. at coming of age he or she will find themselves demoted in class...the extent depending on the cash allotted to them by mom and dad. likewise a slave or servant class couple may have a child that exhibits the magical talent, immediately catapulting the individual to noble status. nobility is essentially a roll of the genetic dice and therefore a destined fate. therefore nobility is less an expected birthright and more of a destiny. what they make of that destiny depends on the individual and their upbringing. however, the lineage of nobles is not a guarantee. > > just pointing out that alpher fighter forces are not necessarily the low end > of the mystaran troop pool. > Nor are they necessarily at the high end. Whether they are at the low, median, high, or pre-eminent end isn't stated openly in DotE. All DotE says is they manage not to arm them with bagpipes, something I wouldn't say is exactly a ringing endorsement of their quality. They are, as I said above, probably effective. But supermen? *pfft*>> the bagpipe references was unneeded and probably more atmospheric than literal. i would not say that alph troops are the supermen of fighters. the original premise of this thread being that they are not poorly equipped and trained human shields for the mages. > > this thread is actually appreciated. i cannot speak for everyone, but i know > that there are at least four others that see this discussion as a vital part > to a project we are working on. > Yes, but once everything is said and done I'm not sure we've generated more light than heat after devoting all this time to the discussion. Some of the early posts that were actually on "tactics vs magic" and the utility of this or that spell, this or that tactic, were very illuminating. But at the end of these exchanges on WotI, Thyatis, and Alphatia I think each of us are left pretty much where we were before, nothing has really changed with regards to the perspectives and opinions of any of the participants.>> like most discussions the subject matter turns to spiral off in all manner of directions. the inner workings of each empire have intruded. can we at least agree that the alph fighters are by no means the bumbling fools taking the blows from opposing forces at the behest of the mages. <> in regards to militaria matters canon sources are so vague or so lopsided that it is difficult to surmise a unilaterally accepted war machine for both alph and thy. it's also surfaced that discontent does not swell solely with the alph and thy units, but stem to others as well. since a nation's armed forces come into campaigning in a limited role...war...it is not that big a deal for most campaigns. i think that we have agreed that alph fighters are competant...though what level is still undetermined. which therein lays the problem...favoritsm vs. national perceptions vs. its place in the Alph = Thy equation. > never said alph was/is the sole power. if anything i see the two on equal > terms as far as military strength. > A lot of things by a lot of people (and not nessisarily you yourself) tend to imply that it is - I think that's why Rob made the remark he did. And I can also see why he would get the impression that you believed that as well from some of your earlier responses in this thread, impressions you have in some ways clarified (like in the above statement) and corrected.>> oh well....old differences still exist. it seems that whenever the alphs and thys are concerned they will be an everpresent entity to overcome in projects and discussions where thy or alph are concerned. which is a shame as the empire rivalries are essentially dead with the sinking and transplanting of the alph continent. anyway...i am getting sick and tired of every time alph and thy are mentioned in the same sentence you either have to support or defend the statement by cross referencing source materials and rationalize the vague parts. and vague parts abound, doing much to bolster the thy vs. alph showdowns. > > fleet being burned? what numbers are you giving the RAF? DotE does offer a > sample contingent of the RAF in thycity. i guess you could use that to base > them on, as a proportional representation of the RAF. > Of course that was penned when the impression of Alphatian skyships was the "Airship of Love," before they got uberized in Champions of Mystara (I note for the record that the usual suspect was involved in that project as well) - it might be that revisions are in order based upon this subsiquent materiel, or it might not. I just point out the latter "suplimentation" of the skyship's imputed powers for the record. If one side isn't held strictly to DotE, then neither should the other be. Otherwise, if both are, well then let's have at it. I'd love to see Rob's stuff, too. >> well it's a shame as the skyship is pegged as the alph signature weapons platform. yet the imperial air fleet was not detailed to air vessel numbers, fleet composition, and personnel. it was made even worse was the across the board eradication of the fleet at Aasla....by fire nonetheless.....removing the fleet from the war effort. imo the lack of detail on the air fleet and the RAF was due to the foresight that the air fleet would not be a factor in Wrath. but then again, that oversight is abundant in Allston related works where corners were cut in details that were not needed in his little war for karameikan supremacy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:12:40 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Tactics vs Magic - I hate it when I use the wrong email ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/22/00 9:15:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Well, a 1 2 or 3 natural roll is always a fail in AD&D. And it comes back to attrition again, even if the hero only has to make one "save or die" in a week of fighting, eventually he's going to be unlucky and get killed.>> oh yes i agree that eventually the die roll is going to catch up with a PC...any PC. a twist is that the PC is capable of meeting the opposing spellcaster, taking maytters to hand to insure that spell is not cast or to limit the caster's opportunities to follow up a save with another spell. but such encounters take on a standard D&D encounter melee, with stone dungeon walls being replaced with walls of flesh. <> yes. but to those that survive comes the background material for soldiers turned adventurers. btw- wouldn't we see an adventurer rise following wrath? just a point to ponder. <> yes i would assume so. i guess if PC/hero participation is described or played out in a battle you could make it a melee battle between them. since troops arew around the heros could be bolstered by troops aiding them in the mini battle amid the big battle. i'd sugest basing a troop assistance body based upon charisma. the hero being spontaneously joined by friendly troops. << Well, and I quote... from the only paragraph in DoE that concerns itself with the Alph army... "...because the noble classes are disinterested in the doings of the military, the nonmagic users in charge of the military tend to be very practical in their choice of weapons, you dont see troops being ordered into battle with bagpipes and daggers for example...">> while the next paragraph offers a variety of weapons issued. nothing out of the ordinary among the examples given. seems like a contemporary weapon array for a force. however, asside from practical no definite level of expertise is offered. practical is vague. however to me practical means ample and competant for the military role. <> imo the bagpipe and dagger reference is more reference to practicallity and function over fashion and glitz that alph mages love. also it states a definative worse case scenario and its non use as such a force would not only be unpractical, but also lack any serious content. <> well if you are going to arm them you might as well teach them to use them properly. otherwise you are wasting the money in buying the weapons and undermining the majority branch of the empire's warmaking and defensive force. >i won't dispute the napoleonic ties of the sharpshooter. however given that >most mystaran nations are wedged into a medieval/renaissance mold...the >napoleonic period and its rifles are a bit beyond them. of course >contemporary fantasy weapons could be tweaked to offer sharpshooters type >tactics, either through refined crossbows or elite bowmen. in fact i use a >sharpshooter in the a few of the Davanian peoples. these are mostly skilled >and trained troops that weild a specialized super heavy crossbow to afford >greater range. they work in teams; one or two shooters with a spotter to >assist in target acquisition and reloading. Sounds cool!>> thanks. <> yes. the focus on magic (both good and bad) is the reason i think a strong fighter based support warmachine is in order. call it insurance to the mages who have to have that durable fighter support to survive on the battlefield to use their spells. i am sure that post battle propaganda readily spouts the magical contributions no matter how large or small, yet ignores the fighter units and their involvement. >that sounds about right in my thinking. while i propose a more skilled alpher >melee fighter, i also am against an army of mages. imo armies should be a >representation of a society. and war is a burden the nation bears. therefore >the armies should be an equal representation of the populace; low level >troops of classes demonstrative of the nation as a whole. however, troop >diversity should be enough to make an army workable on the battlefield. True enough of reservists and conscripts, but you would expect regulars to be a bit more capable.>> yep. it's a given that wars in general will see conscripts and reservists used. the standing armies are what i speak of as being up to par. these regular forces are going to be the key players in a battle whereas the lesser units take up space or form physical presence to influence manuever. <> yep. the respective abilities to provide war materials and get them to the troops is a factor. a group of high level mages my find their abilities more useful in supplying a division than casting their spells out in the battlefield. though less glamourous than battle it is a neccessity to a war spanning several years and crossing a sea. <> well the truth is that no one knows. and ultimately it comes to the individual campaign. my own choice would be a series of small fronts where several "tit for tat" battles rage with no apparent victor.....at least victory producing the objective cities or an ousting of alph troops. hence you have a stalemate. <> well it depends. in a trench type war front it is feasible that segments of either line are squatters during the bulk of the fighting. with such a broad front fighting would probably be more central to land avenues more beneficial to breakthroughs and followup counterattacks. the long lines making up the front being a general counter to troops opposite them. to a degree it would be similar to the Phoney War period for most of the front, however breakthrough battles and light skirmishes prevail in sensitive areas. << Well, I've got Imperial Boltman as a kit, so in theory I agree with you there. However, some stuff is pretty well Enshrined in Stone. Mages cannot cast if they get hit before they get the spell off. Mages cannot cast from the back of a galloping horse. This stuff is set in stone IMO. If you fool around with this stuff, you may as well throw game balance out the window. You practically force yourself to make a kit for fighters, the Mage Killer, to compensate. Its just an arms race.>> for the sake of argument i won't insist on a cavalry mage kit. in reality it's not a good idea. though mobile the mage is a tempting target astride the horse. anyway...a mage with a suitable spell inventory would find the spells a better forum to move about the battlefield. as for the concentration and/or distractions that affect spellcasting, that aspect is often a vague notion and there are often contradicting. for example the casting from horseback is a no-no, however spells can be cast from chariots or wagons if their rate of movement is slowed to below a full gallop. as far as horse mounted mages i see no real problem with a mage casting from a halted horse or one even moving at a slowed trot. i would insist on some riding skill. <> i don't know. some kits are really done well...focusing on customization and slight bendings of the rules. others are not. i think the worse ones are the ones designed to offer outright exceptions of the rules. the ones that come to mind right off are the armor wearing mage and the veritable elven paladin. for kits i think that a proper balance between gains and handicaps must be established. <> i agree. i use to max out my 1st level PCs....sometimes even starting them at 2nd level. i especially did this level boost in regards to mages. << In AD&D your level 2 fighters will have 10+1d10 hit points, and a magic missile is just a flyswat.>> oh i don't know. 1d4+1 is still a sizable chunk of a F2 NPC's hps. these are rank and file troops not PCs. a wound is still a wound whether its 50% or 25% of the total hps...morale check. and a hit should equate a similar loss of concentration...perhaps no more than loss of initiative. unlike PCs a trooper may not have that desire to gamble his life to the mortality aspect. PCs are another matter. better equipped and full of adventurous zeal they may be more inclined to take their hps to the limit. however, i think that even they would fall back if the hp toll fell to single digit range....probable death with successful hit. <> well the boltmen...as any low level mage...is physically weak and limited to AC improvements. ammo supply is not that bad....comparable to a quiver of arrows (20 charges). damage is not too different from an arrow. the boon for the boltman is the automatic hit. the magic missile is specific in that regard. the offset is that the spell's single bolt is not singularly fatal to most opponents. the exception is another 1st level mage or a normal human. <> alone....yes the boltmen would be outranged and picked off at a safe distance. that's why i offer the point that a boltmen unit would have to have a support contingent of archers and infantry. even the PWA OOBs and even CoM offer Boltmen (or M1 light infantry) being accompanied by fighter based troops. <> they might charge if they had not experienced a boltmen type firing line. they may even charge if they have overwhelming numbers. however in a conventional battle where gratuatous losses are to be avoided i doubt that a blind charge would be called up. note i offered manuever or skilled tactics to overcome a firing line. but such tactics are involved in assaulting such opposition. with support of archers and fighter troops the firing line is a tough obstacle. the same can be said for a shield wall or pike line with archer or crossbow support. you either accept the losses or outmaneuver the firing line. <> so now it becomes a suicide charge on the alphers' part. doubtful, especially with the noble class boltmen at stake. imo boltmen are shock troops using the maneuverability and cover of the skyships to unleash a quick series of volleys on an opposing force before moving out of range. without their skyships (sans Aasla inferno) i think that they would be used more conservatively on the battlefield. they'd probably be held as a frontline reserve for enemy charges or as a deterent boost against an enemy charge. unless they have a sizable protective fighter/archer abteilung about them i doubt that they'd be used in a direct assault role. << They have a history of just moving in by weight of numbers, and then being ousted when their odious tyranny looks too much. Read the Ylaraum gaz, the Alphatians were a soft option for the Ylari, due to their incompentence. They threw them out no probs, while it says that the Thyatian troops proved to be much harder to dislodge.>> where exactly does it say that the alphers were softer than the thyatians? all i see is that the alpher urban colonies were addressed first. time spent dealing with the alph and thys is inconsequential as they are given as years and no start finish dates given. also time spent is not a good litmus test as it does not denote forces used by both sides. as for incompetence the only real reference was with the alph's poor agricultural practice which still offer poor pasturage in one of the emirates. other incompetant acts are by no means an alph monopoly. both alph and thy are pegged as being harsh to the local ylari, depending on allied local tribes to bolster forces, and focus on their rival empire colonies. you have to remember that the ylari campaign was a sideshow and not an all out invasion. you should also note the thyatian presence who were probably seen as the real opponent. ylari was a border war, much like NW and the IoD. and in ylari both alph and thy were tossed out as the locals unified against them. as for thy being more difficult, the thy troops were fighting in a neighboring nation that they shared a common border with. therefore supplies and reinforcements were easier to put into place. conversely the alphs had a sea to cross and no threat of ylari invasion. for both thy and alph i see ylari as a border war with limited benefit to either in the long run. it was a side show without going to the extent of provoking all out war, the results being the rise of Al-Kalim....yet another nation's rise due to the two empires fighting and at their cost. given alph precedent as seen in other failled expansions, i think i have a general idea at how the alph part went. alph standing armed forces landed and subjugated the nomads. the Ylari gaz lumps both alph and thy forces as being too sophisticated and too powerful for the disunified nomads....thus implying a degree of equality and professionalism between the two imperial forces. then the alph made an all too consistant flaw; the nobles stepped in taking the reigns from the military. the mages brought with them their vices. they brought with them a lack of colonial focus and a focus on the dispised thyatians. though dependant upon the allied nomads they treated them badly. therefore the occupation was doomed to failure. this theory is actually quite similar to the thyatian role. << Individualism is not exactly a desirable trait in a well ordered fighting machine. Just look at Planescape for some extreme alignment examples. The well oiled fighting machines can be found on Mechanus, Arcadia, Acheron and Baator - ie, all the lawful planes.>> or one could look at RW Rome and her uniform troops and formations to see the benefits of unison against the more physical and individualistic warriors (germanic tribes, celts, goths). however, individuality breeds variation and variation produces unpredictability and distinction. in war individuality is full of its own merit....as both heroes and PCs are highly individualistic no matter what alignment they adhere to. uniform continuity in forces is great as long as the standard practices are the superior of an opposition force. if they are not the entire army is doomed as there is a lessened base for variation and adaptation. << I also note that this is sort of mentioned in the morale rules - chaotic troops get a penalty, while lawful troops get a bonus. ie, if you are an individual, with no sense of "capbadge honour" as they call it in the British army, you are more concerned with your own hide rather than that of your unit. So, you are more likely to run away when the going gets tough.>> well that's dependant upon the perception of alignment. though chaotic the alpher way of life is probably deemed quite lawful by alpher standards. alphatian chaos does not precisely follow chaotic=evil doctrine. also wrath was a special war. it was fought based on race against the hated rival barbarian thyatians, the magical rival and flaem harboring glantrians, and unbeknownst to most the fate of magic and consequentially the alpher way of life. i'd also like to re-point out that alpher chaotic tendencies are not indicative to the whole alpher people. DotE is quite explicit that the chaotic, individualism is predominent in the noble class. likewise if the alphers were uniformly chaotic then how could they exist as a people under a social structure designed to favor a minority for over 2000 years. there is a simple order amid the chaos...an accepted status quo that translates alpher chatic tendencies into a lawful society by their own standards. << An army should not be a collection of individuals. Its all about teamwork. All the tactics you mention are about teamwork. It all flies in the face of their alignment and national character. Boltmen hiding behind shieldbearers? Sure, it may be a good tactic, but it doesnt strike me as an Alphatian tactic.>> yep i'd agree with some of the above. one thing that is universally hammered into raw recruits is the team concept. evenin the US and its chaotic society the military is a rather strict society apart from the civilian society. military life is a neccessary paradox where freedom loving individuals put asside a good degree of their own personal freedom for the preservation and defense of the civilian freedoms. it's not just a US attribute. many european countries follow a similar line...probably moreso now as conscription is less manditory than during the cold war. << I agree that the council is basically irrelevant in the game. Sclaras is something the players dont even know about IMC :)>> well at least that's one additional thing we can agree upon. <> oh yes. i doubt that most alpher know about the inner workings of most other alpher kingdoms. i seriously doubt many can claim to have visited more than a handful of their neighbors. i think that the emphasis on alph has been as a singular people. imo alph is a collection of kingdoms based on race and magic. each kingdom being distinct from its neighbors. i see the alph fuedal system as stepped from the local level to the imperial throne. <> actually the pros and cons of mages in armed forces is intended to be observed unitarily for both thy and alph. the difference is that thy is less compelled to utilze the mage based on national class stereotypes and the efficiency attribute. as for thy monopolies on roman tactics, i'd like to point out that the roman tortoise formation was a variant of the shield wall tactic. though one of the most notable designations, the shield wall is not solely seen in the roman ranks. that frequency is why i did not offer its use as a direct adoption of the tortoise formation, but as a derivative. and with the 1000+ years of thy and alph rivalries, who is to say that both sides would not adopt aspects of the tactics used by the other. <> ah therein is the problem. AD&D essentially established kits as PC classes. even in the basic sense of class, the PHB offers variants which were previously only available as kits or after several levels of XP advancement through D&D. weapon specialization is also an immediate boost to melee performance. specialization is a move to make an expert out of good weilder of a weapon....distinguish the Robin Hoods from the Merry Men. since specialization eats up weapon prof. slots your average entry level fighter isn't going to be too favorable to specialization. imc specialization paralleled weapon mastery and was adopted after the pc earned a few xp levels. afterall specialization is not an immediate priority as weaponskill (thac0 and attacks per round) improves with xp advancement. as mentioned we tended to postpone specialization until a few levels had been gained. the only exceptions i can remember were a few noble family fighters who were groomed from childhood to be an expert swordsman. as nobles they could afford the early training. most of these were alphers who were offspring of nobles but themselves lacked the magical ability of the parent(s). <> actually valarius's influence may not be nearly as damning as one would think. according to WotI "Significantly, the Thyatian legions inside the city [thycity] are poorly trained and badly led; they are unable to put down the rebellion. Far too many legions from other Thyatian cities have to be called in to quell the insurrection, but quell it they finally do." whether these poorly led and poorly trained troops within thycity are a direct result of Valerias, i am unsure. if so it limits her influences to a rather small portion of the thy forces....thycity's legions. if not the thy forces are in a poor condition before the war and their quality suspect. since the poor addages are centered on thycity's legions i have to assume the presence of Valerias. "Over the next few weeks, the scandal continues to worsen as it is discovered that funds that were intended to fund the free bread were diverted to fund several senators' nightly nightly festivities, notoriously decadent affairs. Additionally, many thyatian officers are charged with dereliction of duty or incompetance, especially those who appear to be addicted to the dangerous zzonga fruit; they are executed. Many of those convicted of embezzlement, bribery, and corruption break out of jail and leave for foriegn parts, often in the company of their paramours, women of foriegn nationalities. Subsequent investigations of the Thyatian prisons reveals that they are rife with corruption; dozens of jailers and military officers involved with the prison system are executed." so of those corrupted or addicted to zzonga, many are quickly executed or flee from thy...thus removed from damaging the forces. in some ways the scandals aid thy as it gives the empire a preemptive strike against any bad eggs within the thy officer corp. the downside is that some damage exists in the thycity legions. but as mentioned these legions are a minority in the overall thy military. given that this event takes place in Spring AC1004 and the war isn't declared until Spring AC1005, the thys have a year to fix things. "Anya has convinced Thincol that a new age is at hand for thyatis, when the empire can defeat its longstanding foes like Alphatiaif only it can recapture the warrior spirit and ideals of its founders. Hence, Thincol and his officers are taking a very hardline, militant stance against Alphatia and that empire's allies." hmm....seems that the thy officer corp was not destroyed by Valerias. there seems to be an established body of well motivated officers within thy's armed forces. this is deduced by the thycity legions only being affected, the corrupted/addicted/incompetant officers fleeing, and there being a sizeable officer corp left to support thincol's purgings. valerias's interference was quite limited and actually brought to light internal problems that could have been damning later on. << Well, I've seen stuff in Dragon like Teleport any Object, a level 3 spell, which duplicates a level 7 spell (Vanish) except better. I dont have much respect for Dragon either I'm afraid :)>> you did note the "gungho" designation i gave the Dragon kits. Dragon is not so bad. you have to remember that much of its material comes from outside the TSR staff. so the material is only as good as the contributor....usually a private gamer with their own ideas about a setting, rules, and what they want in a campaign. to me Dragon's key offering is ideas; for campaign setting and rules modifications and variants. not all are good, not all are bad. the Dragon kits were just to show that they were possible and even recognized to a degree by TSR. ultimately the material is up to the DM <> yep. in single digits the encounter favors the fighter. by the time level 10 is achieved spell inventories are better with more damaging spells and offering protection to the caster. likewise, by the passing of level 10 the mage has concievably garnered a few enchanted items to further bolster his survivability rate. imc mages bore attrocious casualty rates. that's one of the reasons i avoided using them. i wouldn't send a 1-3 level fighter into a dungeon with only a staff and dagger and a few crossbow bolts. and that's with platemail and double hps and better a thac0. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:13:02 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/22/00 9:31:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: the bulk of this mail has been snipped as the passages were/are addressed in another mail. no sense for redundancy. <> depends on how much of those years were spent actually moving troops across seas, marching across miles of landscape, just to get to the front. were talking about armies not privy to modern troop deployment measures such as troop transports capable of ferrying thousands at a time. on land they are a foot army as even cavalry and mounted troops are slowed to walking paces to not outdistance the infantry. then there are the logistical needs. in rw history long wars of epic Wrath intensity saw few sizeable battles in rapid succession during its entirety...instead offering mostly dull marches and lots of waiting in between. <> ah...then that explains a good deal. fortunately much of the wrath battle theme is offered. so really the DM is left to fill in the details. if i may ask how did yall address the battles in Darokin? I think the Alphies are not happy about the shift of magically endowed offspring. I seriously doubt that is something that comes up, I can imagine it now... Air Wizard #1 - I beg to move that we increase the strength of the army, paying particular attention to training mundane troops better, as it seems that we mages are in the decline. For Greater Alphatia to survive, we must take immediate action. Air Wizard #2 - Get real! So, the mages are in decline? Just make sure the army never finds out, I - I mean, we - will do just fine.>> i don't think that it would be either an overnight or recent realization. we're talking about 2000+ years of shifts to the mundane majority. anyway the recognition of the dilution of the spellcasting alphers is noted as being recognized by the alphers in DotE. even without Wrath i doubt a mundaner uprising would have been initiated even if mage levels dropped to 10%. as i see it the alpher status quo is too infused in their society for an uprising. you might see mundaners assume unprecedented positions of power even on the continent but more from the shift catching up with ruler pools than from mage sentiment shifts or from mundaner reforms. << Well, I didnt handle the burning in Aasla, I thought that a bit ridiculous personally. I had it happen, but the PCs werent about. As for the battle, I havnt really thought about it seriously, but I was guessing on about 50 Alphatian skyships, with say 10-20 men'o war in there, versus about 3000 air warriors from the RAF. I think this is vastly inflating the RAF from canonical sources, but I'll assume that after they suffer mass casualties they never really get brought back up to full strength. One of my PCs is working on making some Glantrian skyships, so there may be a couple of Glantrian skysloops in there too... >> the inferno at Aasla was too easy and too awkward. it seems a no brainer that fire retardant spells (at least against normal fires) would have been used to at least protect the hulls. fire was the bane of RW wooden navies and is a steady danger even in modern vessels. masts and riggings would not be economically feasible for enchanting. so by preserving the hulls the fleet is just out of action pending repairs. it keeps them out of the war until the battles of retebius and possibly kantrium, where the RAF and alph fleet could stalemate and virtually wipe each other out. the glantrian skyships may be a problem as glantri's contributions to the thyatian forces are not mentioned. however, glantri does have those skyships....FireFlies or something....in the Glantri Gaz. since there are no mention of them in post wrath materials it is feasible that they were sent to bolster thyatian RAF forces but were destroyed in the fighting. if you don't have the glantri gaz i could dig it out and send the info to you. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:13:10 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Mystaran Ravenloft Domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/22/00 8:18:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: << Hey, just thought I'd mention this to anyone who might be interested. There has been discussion on the Ravenloft message board about a Ravenloft domain known as Rokushima Taiyoo. Basically, someone was asking whether the Kargatane was planning on describing this domain, and John Mangrum of the Kargatane said yes, someday, but not anytime soon. I noticed this, and posted about possibly making it another Mystara Ravenloft domain populated by evil Rakasta. I haven't really heard anything about it since (I'm hoping to hear some feedback from the Kargatane), but if they think it sounds cool, I was wondering if anyone would like to help me with the creation of such a place. Again, it may be a little premature, but I just thought I'd mention it and see if there were any interested parties... >> sure. the premise sounds good. even if turned down by the Kargatane Crew it would be an interesting domain to implement. heck i may even have to drop by the message board and check. its been a while since i messed with RL forums....since TSR Online left AOL. anyone here know how active the RL mailing list is? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:12:52 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/25/00 10:06:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << Those gnomes would need to do something to limit the number of dwarves who leave Highforge to go adventuring, lest the Karameikans notice that there are far more dwarvish adventurers than should be possible from a population of only a thousand or so. Perhaps they send them to Rockhome first? The gnomes themselves have a similar problem, with a slightly larger official population but no real alternative locations that the excess gnomish adventurers can claim to be from. >> Hmmm... this would not be a problem if the Highforge community is connected to a large, widespread "Underdark" that extends into, say, Darokin or even Thyatis... heck, the SE tunnels pass all the way to Darokin City, why can't the Highforge Delves reach all the way to Selenica, Thyatis, Ylaruam or even beyond? This is a very interesting idea... especially since the demihumans don't really have an "underdark" equivalent to that of the SE or the Humanoids of the Broken Lands... hmmmm... the greatest secret of the Known World... perhaps a Gnomish Net Gazetteer is in order... sort of the "Gnomes of Zurich" kind of thing (ala Illuminati)... the Gnomes are EVERYWHERE... Magister Mystaros Exalted Mage of Mystara Chronicler of Pandius All-around Party Animal ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:18:25 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Vanya Speculation In-Reply-To: <46.d38110.25bfbd0f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Perhaps Vanya supports Glantri because she wants Rad to continue his experiments and destroy the magic of Mystara. Since the Heldannic Knights and Thyatis don't derive their primary strength from mage magic, unlike their main rival, Alphatia, the destruction of magic would leave Alphatia ripe for the pickings at the hands of her followers. Even when this grinds down both Thyatis and the HK, she knows that sometimes you have to take short term losses to get long term gains. It's easier to build a non-magical nation back up from scratch in a world of no magic than a magical one. A good example of the sort of callousness towards mortals which tends to be characteristic of the members of the Brotherhood of the Star, and which is, in some ways, their unifying feature. (Except for Asterius and Eiryndul, who don't fit in so well. But ultimately, Rad, Rafiel, Vanya, and Rathanos are all users, who just treat mortals as their disposable toys to be yanked about as they please) Not that the Ring of Fire is always better, mind you... John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:57:17 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Atraughin culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Regarding the culture and what held them back: Being Filipino and anguishing about the things that have held us back (despite being touted as the next Asian Tiger twice in the past 50 years, yeah right), I can suggest a few things. 1. They excel individually and in small groups, but anything larger and they begin CLASHING due to their innately independent nature and feeling that each one knows EXACTLY what to do - which differs from everyone else's opinion. 2. They are extremely regionalistic and spend most time warring. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:55:07 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Vanya Speculation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Perhaps Vanya supports Glantri because she wants Rad to continue his > experiments and destroy the magic of Mystara. Since the Heldannic Knights > and Thyatis don't derive their primary strength from mage magic, unlike > their main rival, Alphatia, the destruction of magic would leave Alphatia > ripe for the pickings at the hands of her followers. > I think Clerical magic would go buh-bye, too, though, wouldn't it? I'm not positive - can someone let me know one way or another? > Even when this grinds down both Thyatis and the HK, she knows that > sometimes you have to take short term losses to get long term gains. > Still doesn't explain why she gets all vexed when Thincol decides completely destroying the Empire on behalf of Glantri isn't worth it - after all, some short term losses is one thing. Massive destruction is another thing all together (and, all together now: Thanatos). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:09:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Vanya Speculation In-Reply-To: <200001260357.WAA08884@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, James Ruhland wrote: > > > I think Clerical magic would go buh-bye, too, though, wouldn't it? I'm not > positive - can someone let me know one way or another? > It is my general impression that the Immortals did not realize the overuse of the Radiance would effect clerical magic. Otherwise, why would any Immortal in his right mind support Rad? If the Immortals had clearly understood it would strip them of their abilities to grant powers, or even to touch the world (note that there is no contact with the Immortals during the Week of No Magic), Rad probably would have been ripped limb from limb before he could get out of Pandius. No one would have supported Rad if they'd realized that Immortal level and Immortal derived (ie, Clerical) magic could be affected by the abuse of the Nucleus of the Spheres. Thus, Korokitu and Ka probably assumed the Nucleus' effects couldn't do anything bad to their Hollow World project, for example; after all, it was created and sustained by Immortal level power. After having the HW sun go out during the Week of No Magic, I'd suspect Ka was ready to rip most of the Fellowship of the Star into tiny little bits, when he wasn't busy telling himself he'd been a fool. Korotiku was likely feeling pretty foolish himself for not thinking of that possibility. I bet hunting down and reparalyzing the Burrowers wasn't much fun either. > > Even when this grinds down both Thyatis and the HK, she knows that > > sometimes you have to take short term losses to get long term gains. > > > Still doesn't explain why she gets all vexed when Thincol decides > completely destroying the Empire on behalf of Glantri isn't worth it - > after all, some short term losses is one thing. Massive destruction is > another thing all together (and, all together now: Thanatos). > She was expecting if they could hold out just a little longer, Rad would finish turning the Nucleus into uberweapon, which would squash the Alphatians. And also, the memory of what happened during the LAST Alphatian assault on Thyatis City no doubt came to mind; after all, Thincol came to power after defeating a seemingly unstoppable Alphatian assault on TC. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:33:27 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Re: Martial Arts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you ever decide to work up some rules for Martial Arts, I'd love to help out. I've been kicking around the idea for a LONG time (I've been a martial artist for 17 years now -- that may be one of the few things I enjoy more than Mystara). I haven't seen any RPG martial art system that I really liked, although the Oriental Adventures rules were on an interesting track. The general framework would fit well into a rule system that implements skills of some sort. John Hofmann On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:08:58 -0800 Darth Darknerd writes: > What martial arts system? I know about different martial arts, > history, and lore and thought of modifying the current AD&D2e+++ > system to that it more realistically reflects martial arts. Also > though of adding alternative systems for monsters, like the > MantisFolk north of the Herathians. And I wanted to add more > special maneuvers and qi powers. > > Some martials arts: > > Aikido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > redirects opponent attacks into the > ground or air, or simple disables them > through joint manipulation. > Jujitsu - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > emphasizes wrestling tackles to render > the opponent incapacitated. Sometimes > borrows Karate maneuvers. > Hapkido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > redirects kinetic force and energy in > hard objects or fist/foot/knee. Mixes > indigenous Korean martial arts. > Karate - basic linear hard form with kicks, > hard blocks, and strikes. > (Shotokan/Okinawa styles) > Kenpo - karate but mixes fast rapid repetitive > attacks. > Tae Kwon Do - Form know for arial acrobatics > used to knock people off horses. Very > deadly, but extremely limited for close > quarters combat. > Kung-Fu - This is too broad of a category. > There are Kung-Fu's for strong people, > another for fast people, etc. Some > emphasize soft forms, others hard, most > emphasize a particular animal. This is a > slow progression, but once the person > masters the basics, the feats are amazing > and unbelievable. > Caporia - Brazillian art that uses tackles > and take downs through leg maneuvers. > Very bizarre, but beautiful art. > Tai-Chi - A soft form that uses redirection > like Aikujitsu. It is really > sophisticated, and has powerful qi (chi > or ki) energy manipulation tactics. > > There are several others. There should be a martial art that fits > the player's personality and ability scores. However, some arts > might not be available for tutelage. The masters of sophisticated > martial arts like earlier Kung-Fu styles are rarely taught. The > studies that can prove themselves worthy are very rare. A lot of > role play would be involved in getting access to this type of > martial arts. More streamlined martial arts like Karate were used > for military. When martial arts are used in combination, such as > the Hapkido's close quart joint manipulation, combined with Tae Kwon > Do's aerial knock-out kicks, the practitioner can be quite deadly. > Interestingly, the citizens of South Korea are required to take > these martial arts as part of their high school training and > mandatory military training, in part due to fitness and > national/ethical pride. Perhaps in Mystara, a whole nation could do > the same. Maybe in these times they could be more Spartan, and > apart of the training for youngsters is to go through rigorous > training. > > > > -- > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:53:31 George Hrabovsky wrote: > >Sorry, wrong guy. I did things like Karameikan Kick boxing, and > stuff > >under the weapon mastery rules. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Hevard > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:03 AM > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back... > > > > > >> Welcome back! > >> > >> > Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on > martial arts > >> > systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I > guess > >> > that's about it for now. > >> > >> Were you the one who did all that martial > arts/Spheres/Elements-stuff? > >> > >> Hevard > >> > >> > >> Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > >> http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > >> http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >> > >> > ******************************************************************** > >> The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >> Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:54:50 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > general. however, i would say that just because a nation or people are known > for magic, that does not immediately disqualify them as fighters. alphatia is > huge.... > Well, this debate is somewhat futile: if you believe the Alphatians should have better fighters/warriors than Thyatis or anyone else, and I don't, no amount of back and forth opining is going to change anyone's minds. > stalemate/cold war nature. with the addition of glantri and the HKs, wrath > implies the war was virtually won by alph even before it was declared....the > real battle being the alphers getting motivated to fight. > Mainy because Thyatian forces were not up to par. The "addition of Glantri and the HKs" is fundimentally negligable, as we've already agreed, so doesn't form much of an argument in favor of overwhelming Alphatian superiority. Again, though: if your opinion is that the Alphers can win hands down and Thyatis isn't in their league (in effect, your opinion being that Mystara has only one real power, something you said you didn't believe when Rob wondered), and I disagree, no amount of back and forth opining is going to change your opinion, mine, or anyone else's. the tooth and nail > fighting is further eroded by beneficial turn of events that favored alph and > nullified the glantri and HK alliances. for a war that was supposed to be > alph vs. glantri thyatis bore the brunt and overshadowed the cause of the > war. wrath gave alph few real allies. > WotI gave Thyatis no "real" allies, either - treaties of alliance notwithstanding, we've already gone over the fact that none of them lent much help against the "main threat" (oh, some help against Thar by the HKs, but as we all agreed before - if Glantri couldn't defeat Thar by themselves, they didn't deserve to survive anyhow). WotI also did much more to "undercut" the Thyatian war effort than it did to undercut the Alpher war effort. One could argue that this implies that left to its own deviced, Thyatis would have managed a stalemate at worse with Alphatia. > the ally that seemed most beneficial > was "murphy's law" which seemed to affect thyatis at every turn. wrath offers > little in the way of glory for thyatis. their history as a military power and > driving force in mystara were destroyed in four years through "we got > screwed" types of events. > See above. > > not being industrialized, neither could retool and reequip their armies with > better weapons and armors in such a short period. > Who said anything about a short period? Folks on Mystara have been fighting Alpher mages since BC 1000. Plenty of time to decide what works best through (extensive) trial and error and train & equip folks based upon lessons learned. Btw, even the IRL Byzantino-Roman Empire had "arms factories" and managed to equip most of their forces up to a given standard, and that was in the 8th and 9th centuries, your "dark ages." > > yes i objected. i also noted the use of mass casualties in a charge to > both sides. > The problem is you only favor one side with such prowess, and not the other, setting up situations where the side you favor can dish out ten times as many casualties while their opponents stagger forward in an insensate manner. All Rob & I were doing was pointing out why it isn't nessissarily so that things will turn out in such a manner that your boltmen can maximalize the casualties they inflict. > > note that i said "most". > with this initial land gab, the need to expand was minimal. > "need to" is different from "trying or wanting to". That was my point. > > nope....for thyatis it depends on efficiency. > Again, one of those cases where you hold the opinion that mage troops can dispatch 5 to 10 times their number of opposing forces, but that the Thyatians wouldn't find a way to utlize them, and where I tend to disagree with that -- based upon statements in DotE. But once again, no amout of back and forth opining is going to convince either of us, so this thread grows futile. > it depends on what firepower these mages can bring to thyatian > formations as compared to the cost. alph on the other > hand has that magic stereotype and is therefore obliged to have a magical > contingent in the armies, despite the costs to efficiency. > Except that you don't describe their being any: in fact, you make arguments exactly opposite of this. So which is it? Mages can dispatch some multiple of their number on the battlefield, or mages are a liability and not an asset? In any case, my argument wasn't based upon integrating them into every squad, but using them as force multipliers. One doesn't put mortars up with every squad or platoon on the front lines, one deploys them at a higher echelon, and uses them appropriately based upon that. > > thyatis would have to consolidate its smaller pool of mages > to man certain divisions with > mages to get the %, by taking mages from other divisions and leaving them > completely fighter based. > Not completely fighter-based, since there's more than just mages, and Thyatis has developed proficiency in its Clerical arm (per DotE) to a higher degree than Alphatia, precisely to counter-balance their mage-heavy nature and comparative lack of a Clerical arm. See also my Thyatian Military Variant for one example of exactly how Thyatis can do what you say they cannot. > > it does say that the forces are kept to adequate levels. > Adiquate levels implies numbers, not quality. > given that thyatis > is the intended adversary, it is feasible that the armed forces are > engineered to meet that thyatian force on equal terms. > It would be interesting if you used that conversely: that Thyatian forces would be engineered to meat the Alphatian force on equal terms. But you do not. Odd? Strikes me as odd - you refer to the Alpher manpower advantage, but dismiss arguments that the (magic-obsessed) mages might simply rely upon using large numbers of (to them) expendible "mundaines" to overwhelm Thy forces - while objecting to arguments that the Thyatians might try to achieve a qualitative advantage in order to offset Alphatia's numerical and magical advantages. Again, this is an example where we can each write our opinions several more times, but it wouldn't convince anyone. > fleet. however there is mention of the vague high cost to maintain the > fleet and the opposition to its cost. > Which doesn't imply billions of gps by any means. IIRC, in effect you are arguing that the Alphers have more skyships (each requiring 200 airmen and 400 marines in the case of the Men-of-War) than you have on other occassions argued that Thyatis has RAF men. And who is building what to counter who's force? (actually, in effect both are, but that's another matter). > > just to be safe let me clarify. "nothing to be feared" applies from the > alpher mage mentality and point of view. > And yet you argue in other areas that they would focus on building an efficient army of fighters. Ok. If you don't see the disconnect, then nothing I can say will show it. > > the bagpipe references was unneeded and probably more atmospheric than > literal. > Really? When it's in your interest, you argue that things should be deemed extremely significant. When not supportive of your argument, you think they should be dismissed. Makes it very hard - again, all that means is things can be whatever one wants. You see the Alph armies as a force unequalled on Mystara, not only in numbers but man-for-man superior in every way to their Thyatian (and other) opponents. I demure. There isn't any way these exchanges are going to change either of our minds. > > like most discussions the subject matter turns to spiral off in all > manner of directions. the inner workings of each empire have intruded. > can we at least agree that the alph fighters are by no means the > bumbling fools taking the blows from opposing forces at the behest > of the mages. > Except that, from the Alphatian mindest that you refered to before, that is precisely their society's position on what such people are for. Should they not be? I think they should revolt, myself. But it isn't my choice. In other contexts you (and others) refer to the Alphers, not just the mages, as having accepted the general pemises of their civilization and internalized them. So, which is it? They see themselves as equally useful (and thus are another Thyatian-revolt-in-waiting), or they have accepted their lot and see it as normal? Elsewhere I said that IMO the Alpher armies were "good" (but not the Ubermen described in PWA II), but that doesn't seem to be a concession you're willing to grant the Thy forces, persisting in portraying them as just hanging around waiting to be overun and not doing anything to try and change the balance of power (by becoming, for example, qualitatively better to offset the numerical superiority of the Alphatians). So should I say I think the Alpher troops are good again? Does that mean the mages (who are in charge, remember) don't see them precisely as bumbling fools who exist to take the blows from opposing forces on their behalf? Actually, that sounds exactly like the nation DotE describes. > the alph continent. anyway...i am getting sick and tired of every time > alph and thy are mentioned in the same sentence you either have to > support or defend the statement by cross referencing source materials > and rationalize the vague parts. and vague parts abound, doing much > to bolster the thy vs. alph showdowns. > Well, I guess we're all getting sick and tired at this point. At least I use the materiels when the argument is based upon what they imply rather than just making up whatever I want to support my argument. What were you doing with the "bagpipe" thing if it wasn't rationalizing it to support your thesis? Anyhow, if we throw away the materiels and just debate our opinions, then this thread becomes even more devoid of resolution or possible enlightenment than it is already - then we just end up getting sick and tired of the fact that the other guy refuses to agree with us, dispite the lack of evidence to support our conclusions. 8-)~ That's what it'd be if we simply threw out the "source materiels." Anyhow, too each their own in any case. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:21:00 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. That's a hard one. Maybe they are encouraged to adventure outside of Mystara, or they claim they are visiting Mystara. I don't think that there will be a high percentage of adventurers. Perhaps even if there is a low percentage, they'll tell the Thyatians and Traldarans that the majority of their community are adventurers, though in reality this is a minority of a large population. There are also the underworld which can have countless adventures. Adventurers could wander through the underworld, into the Under-Brokenlands, into the Great Waste area, into Shadow elven kingdoms, under Alphatia and Northern Reaches aresa, and even into the Hollow World. -- On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:59:27 David Knott wrote: >One additional note for Highforge: > >Those gnomes would need to do something to limit the number of dwarves >who leave Highforge to go adventuring, lest the Karameikans notice that there >are far more dwarvish adventurers than should be possible from a population >of only a thousand or so. Perhaps they send them to Rockhome first? > >The gnomes themselves have a similar problem, with a slightly larger >official population but no real alternative locations that the excess gnomish >adventurers can claim to be from. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:27:37 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Tactics vs Magic - I hate it when I use the wrongemail... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > actually valarius's influence may not be nearly as damning as one would > think. according to WotI > Of course, while declaring yourself "sick and tired" of me quoting things and infering all sorts of things theirby, you yourself go one step further. The tactic of only quoting those parts which may (but may not) support your thesis is a nice trick, but. . .well, at the risk of making you "sick and tired" again I will have to repair the damage. > "Significantly, the Thyatian legions inside the city [thycity] are poorly > trained and badly led; they are unable to put down the rebellion. Far too > many legions from other Thyatian cities have to be called in to quell the > insurrection, but quell it they finally do." > > whether these poorly led and poorly trained troops within thycity are a > direct result of Valerias, i am unsure. if so it limits her influences to > a rather small portion of the thy forces....thycity's legions. > Oh? Why does that follow that the effect is limited? They call in other forces, but it doesn't say those troops are more able - the additional numbers could be what turned the trick. Also, even if you take your implication, there's another year between this and the first battles, and I doubt she stopped trying in the interval - she could have started in the capital, and worked her influence outwards. Also, note that in the same event, it says that she "is doing everything she can to make Thyatis crumble from the inside." - something you specifically rejected in your earlier reply, prefering to believe it was the outside influence of Alphatia alone. p.79, "Fall, Year 1,005: West Portage Falls" - "The reason they cave in so quickly is because their garrissons, especially the officer corps, are badly-trained and dissipated. This is a result of the general decay of the empire's officers due to the activities of Helena Ledamiades, a mortal identity of Valerias. . ." In other words, the Alphers win because the Thy army has been undermined by Valerias. > > so of those corrupted or addicted to zzonga, many are quickly executed or > flee from thy...thus removed from damaging the forces. > It's too bad you didn't read the rest of WotI. I prefer to believe that over the alternative, which is that you were deliberately distorting what is said in WotI. > > "Anya has convinced Thincol that a new age is at hand for thyatis, when the > empire can defeat its longstanding foes like Alphatiaif only it can recapture > the warrior spirit and ideals of its founders. Hence, Thincol and his > officers are taking a very hardline, militant stance against Alphatia and > that empire's allies." > > hmm....seems that the thy officer corp was not destroyed by Valerias. > That is not what the event either says or implies: it says that they take a "hardline, militant stand against Alphatia," not that they aren't disipated by Valerias. Coming to the conclusion you do is almost as much of a strain as believing Zaar & Asteriela fell deeply and madly in love. p. 86 "Summer, Year 1,008: Imperial Navies Clash" "The years of warfare have all but eliminated the effects of Valerias's earlier efforts; the weak officers have been eliminated by execution or have died in battle, and the common troops have been whipped into shape and weaned from the debilitating effects of the *zzonga* fruit." Note that it says "all but" eliminated, not completely eliminated. And yet, depleated by previous losses as Thyatis is, they still manage to achieve a draw and what amounts to a strategic victory in this battle: it is the Alphers who are forced to retreat. This also in effect states openly that the Thyatian armies, not just a few of them and not temporarily, were undermined across the board by Valerias, and that this is why Thyatis suffered most of its previous defeats. Now that they have "all but" shaken these effects, they give a much better account of themselves. However, by this point the damage has mostly been done, not due to Alpher superiority, but because of previous losses and setbacks for which the Alphers largely have Valerias to thank. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 21:31:12 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Gnomes: Under the Sea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Another interesting idea is that the gnomes might have some caves that go under into the water. Perhaps a town was surrounded by water and isolated. These gnomes could have developed equipment to survive under the ocean and later made submersible crafts. These crafts, travel into the flooded caverns which eventually connect into the ocean where they encounter many races under the sea. Always being inventive and looking for a way to protect themselves from the great evil that wishes to exterminate them, a community of gnomes got the idea to build a vast undersea city south of Ierendi. They have done this and succeeded. Many other gnomes migrated to this city. Some of these gnomes later migrated to Ierendi from the rich offering by the Alphatian Fire Wizards that exist there on Honor Island. This city, Dulesh Dittersode, trades with the undersea folk, subterrean gnomes, honor island, fortress island dwarves, and sometimes rarely with flying gnomes (PC3) as well. Though there is difficulty in doing the latter. (Some Gnomes are wildly experimenting with a submersible air-machine holder, i.e. submersible aircraft carrier) HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:55:12 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Immortal Sides in WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 11:07:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Yah - I'm still not buying it. Seems a rather weak reason for her to get her followers killed off, doesn't really explain why the Immortal Patron of Conquest would devote a lot of time to defending Glantri (and not even attempting any conquests). . .nope; no cigar. 8-) >> I think her idea was more along the lines of letting Thyatis and Alphatia wear each other down and then having her Heldanners go in and pick up the pieces. Given that the Heldanners were still intact after the war and a few years after- ward were well on their way to conquering Norwold, I would say her plan worked. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:55:15 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 11:25:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: << Let's say that a particular immortal (Vanya is a good example here) sides with Rad. It does not necessarily follow that her followers must side with Glantri. These are immortals we are dealing with here. They have (or should have) plots within plots within plots. Couldn't Vanya have manipulated her followers into benefitting the Rad alliance without having them "sign" some worthless allaince/peace treaty with Glantri. Take the HKs for example. They are conquerers. Vanya could have simply directed them to attack weakened Alphatian countries along the Isle of Dawn (and no treaty with Glantri is needd to do this!). I admit that the HKs probably would have behaved over-zealously and conquered some Thyatian colonies as well, but this is really a minor inconvenience for Vanya ( if that). I mean she is the patroness of battles. If her followers fight battles, that should increase her standing. Fighting against fellow followers may be inefficient for the Rad-Ixion affair, but for Vanya this shouldn't cause a big problem. Likewise Glantri should not have to lend support to the HKs in any way. This way the actions of Glantri and the HKs can be explained as unrealted events driven by two or more immortals with different agendas, but fighting for the same (temporary) cause. [I know this is not how things happened, but shouldn't it be?] >> The significant point in all this is that the Heldanners never actually fight the Alphatians, who could easily defeat them if they concen- trated their efforts on doing that. In fact, the only war that they do get involved in is with Ethengar, and that was a war that Vanya did not want them to be involved in. As I see it, her plan was for them to do some saber rattling andscore some propaganda points with the rest of the world by "bravely" standing up to "big bad Alphatia", but not actually do anything militarily until the two great empires were sufficiently devastated for the Heldanners to start picking them off. <> As I see it, the SE conquest of Alfheim accomplished two things that benefitted Glantri: 1) It cut off any possibility of foreign support for the Erewan elves, who were already weakened by the loss of their allies to the Meteor. Internecine elven fighting ceased to be a problem because one of the factions was weakened to the point of being totally ineffective. 2) More importantly, the Immortal Ilsundal was no longer able to provide any effective support for Rad's foes, as all of his efforts were concentrated on saving the Alfheim refugees. BTW, somebody raised a good point about how Mealiden should have provided Ilsundal with more effective backup. Since he obviously did not, I would suggest that something else must have been going on to distract him. Would Eiryndul's mischief have been sufficient, or should we posit some sort of threat to Mealiden's followers in distant lands? >> > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em posted, because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of Alphatia (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the Immortals, where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who are only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality of their own).< Thyatis is not a monotheistic country, and so even if a few of its patron immortals choose to side with Rad, I doubt that Thyatis as a whole would have. What might have happened instead is intense political debates and perhaps some minor acts of internal terrorism which would have the effect of taking Thyatis out of the war (but not taking Thyatis out, as it were, and leaving it in smouldering ruins). >> I think that it may be the large number of different Immortals revered in Thyatis that turned most of the Immortals against that nation. Every Immortal had worshipers in Thyatis, but for most of them their real power base was elsewhere. Fur- thermore, each and every Immortal cult in Thyatis was a minority religion that was outnumbered by other cults. Under those circumstances, is it any surprise that most Immortals were willing to write off Thyatis? After all, any losses that a particular Immortal suffered among his or her own followers would be more than made up for by losses among followers of other hostile Immortals. On the other hand, as indifferent as Alphatians in general were to the Immortals, they did have a few Immortals whose followers were to be found only in that empire, so those Immortals at least would be fully committed to preserving Alphatia. << If Vanya does side with Rad (and why not, she seems to love a good fight), then she could prevent Thyatis from attacking Glantri (by following the above prescribed actions), which is all she really needs to do. Thyatis will still stand as a southern buffer to the Alphers (they would never let the Alphers march armies across their borders), and would leave Vanya's pet followers the HKs, to fight a war on an Eastern front. As far as Vanya's concerned if the HKs can't take a beating and survive, then perhaps they are not worthy followers after all. A smart move on her part? who knows? >> But if the things I wrote earlier are true, then that is exactly what Vanya would not want to do. It is true that she has many followers among the Thyatians -- but so do her enemies. The same is not true of the Heldannic Knights -- they are all hers. Once you accept the assumption that Vanya valued the Heldannic Knights over any other followers, her actions during WotI begin to make sense. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:55:18 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 1:10:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << My original request was not to stop the thread, but rather stop bashing people because they don't use OD&D or don't favor OD&D. >> Since I started that whole discussion, I should point to the disclaimer that I made at the beginning. Namely, in denying that the various versions of the D&D rules used by pre-AD&D Mystara products were "original" D&D, I did not intend to say anything disparaging about them -- far from it, they are among the best things that the old TSR ever produced. The problem that I was trying to address was the fact that when people refer to "OD&D" I and a few other people have access to D&D material that pre-dates and is significantly different from the red box "Basic" set and the blue box "Expert" set, regardless of precisely which printing you might be referring to. I guess what I would recommend is that in the few cases where it actually matters people should be very specific in their references -- if you are referring to a particular D&D rules boxed set, specify the edition and even year of printing if necessary, for the sake of clarity. But I must admit some relief that for the most part this thread did not degenerate into pointless debates over which set of D&D rules is the best -- obviously everyone has their own preferences on that issue, and by now most of us realize that there is little point in debating such matters of taste. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:59:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit um, i was in my garage the other day, rumaging around, and i found this old yellow set of D&D stuff, what is that? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:00:04 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: [ADMIN] ODnD -- BDnD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit oh hehe, forgot to sign, i know you all look forward to that! Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:23:17 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Martial Arts (was Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The system I created, which treats martial arts as weapon proficiencies that have additional skills that can be purchased normally can be found in the rules section at: http://dnd.starflung.com/ This is primarily for Rules Cyclopedia-based stuff, but it could be modified. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Darth Darknerd To: Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 6:08 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Martial Arts (was Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back...) > What martial arts system? I know about different martial arts, history, and lore and thought of modifying the current AD&D2e+++ system to that it more realistically reflects martial arts. Also though of adding alternative systems for monsters, like the MantisFolk north of the Herathians. And I wanted to add more special maneuvers and qi powers. > > Some martials arts: > > Aikido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > redirects opponent attacks into the > ground or air, or simple disables them > through joint manipulation. > Jujitsu - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > emphasizes wrestling tackles to render > the opponent incapacitated. Sometimes > borrows Karate maneuvers. > Hapkido - Aikujitsu derived soft form that > redirects kinetic force and energy in > hard objects or fist/foot/knee. Mixes > indigenous Korean martial arts. > Karate - basic linear hard form with kicks, > hard blocks, and strikes. > (Shotokan/Okinawa styles) > Kenpo - karate but mixes fast rapid repetitive > attacks. > Tae Kwon Do - Form know for arial acrobatics > used to knock people off horses. Very > deadly, but extremely limited for close > quarters combat. > Kung-Fu - This is too broad of a category. > There are Kung-Fu's for strong people, > another for fast people, etc. Some > emphasize soft forms, others hard, most > emphasize a particular animal. This is a > slow progression, but once the person > masters the basics, the feats are amazing > and unbelievable. > Caporia - Brazillian art that uses tackles > and take downs through leg maneuvers. > Very bizarre, but beautiful art. > Tai-Chi - A soft form that uses redirection > like Aikujitsu. It is really > sophisticated, and has powerful qi (chi > or ki) energy manipulation tactics. > > There are several others. There should be a martial art that fits the player's personality and ability scores. However, some arts might not be available for tutelage. The masters of sophisticated martial arts like earlier Kung-Fu styles are rarely taught. The studies that can prove themselves worthy are very rare. A lot of role play would be involved in getting access to this type of martial arts. More streamlined martial arts like Karate were used for military. When martial arts are used in combination, such as the Hapkido's close quart joint manipulation, combined with Tae Kwon Do's aerial knock-out kicks, the practitioner can be quite deadly. Interestingly, the citizens of South Korea are required to take these martial arts as part of their high school training and mandatory military training, in part due to fitness and national/ethical pride. Perhaps in Mystara, a whole nation could do the same. Maybe in these times they could be more Spartan, and apart of the training for youngsters is to go through rigorous training. > > > > -- > > On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:53:31 George Hrabovsky wrote: > >Sorry, wrong guy. I did things like Karameikan Kick boxing, and stuff > >under the weapon mastery rules. > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Hevard > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:03 AM > >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hello, I'm back... > > > > > >> Welcome back! > >> > >> > Incidentally I was very pleased to see that my article on martial arts > >> > systems is still kicking around (no pun intended). Well, I guess > >> > that's about it for now. > >> > >> Were you the one who did all that martial arts/Spheres/Elements-stuff? > >> > >> Hevard > >> > >> > >> Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > >> http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > >> http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >> > >> ******************************************************************** > >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >> Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:25:30 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 1:01:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: << Throw in some "Lost World"-ish platau monsters, and it fits. They can even be the decendants of the Gaz. Clans, but they have kept a little more up to date. Relegate the Official Clans to HW. >> There is one minor change that would make most of the Atruaghin Clans viable in the Known World. If they develop a craft of manufacturing magic items, they could become competitive with other Known World cultures without any further changes. What they would need is the ability to manufacture magic bracers of defense, with lesser bracers (AC 8 or AC 6) being granted to "common" warriors and superior bracers (AC 4 or AC 2) being granted to their high level heroes. A similar ability to enchant magic weapons could actually make them superior to other Known World cultures in that area. However, these advances would not affect all of the clans equally: Horse: The lack of a spoken language among this clan made them dubious prospects for me long ago. Throw in their cultural bias against missile weapons such as bows and this clan does not seem particularly viable. I would assume that they will be driven into the less desirable regions of the Atruaghin plateau. Once the more promising clans push into those regions, the Horse clan will be candidates for removal to the Hollow World. Bear: This clan makes no use of shields and is not skilled in hunting, but there is nothing in their culture to stop them from adopting the advances that I posit as necessary to bring them into a competitive status with Known World cultures. There is some hope for them. Turtle: This clan has no cultural hindrances against the proposed improve- ments and in addition are skilled seafarers. They should thrive quite well. Tiger: Magical bracers would be a perfect addition to their current skimpy armor. They do not like bows, but their use of poisoned missile weapons such as blowguns more than makes up for that lack. The key thing that they must do is keep Darokin and other civilized nations from deciding that they need to be dealt with as some major threat. Elk: This clan has no problems with magic bracers and likes to use short bows as missile weapons. They should have no problems once they adopt the magical improvements to their armor and weapons. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 20:34:03 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Darokin/Glantri/Sind Map Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey there Mystarans. This message is primarily for Thib, but anyone else who likes to do maps is welcome to help me out. ;-) I'd really like to see a map showing the relationship between the north-west region of Darokin, the Broken Lands, Glantri and the northern Region of Sind. I'd like to see the eastern edge of the map starting just to the east of Corunglain and the western edge going as far as to the northern border between Sind and the desert. I'd like to see the northern edge be high enough to cover most if not all of Glantri, and the southern edge must be low enough that the map includes all of Lake Amsorak (and it would be nice if it also included Darokin City). The region I've indicated probably also touches on part of the Atruaghin Plateau, but whether it gets specifically included in the map isn't as important as the areas I've actually mentioned. A smaller scale would be good -- 8 miles to the hex preferably. Thanks, in advance, to anyone who takes up my challenge. :-) Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 02:48:20 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-25 11:59:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Again, though: if your opinion is that the Alphers can win hands down and Thyatis isn't in their league (in effect, your opinion being that Mystara has only one real power, something you said you didn't believe when Rob wondered), and I disagree, no amount of back and forth opining is going to change your opinion, mine, or anyone else's. >> The real problem that Thyatis faced was that Alphatia had a 2:1 or better advantage in numbers along with insufficient disadvantages to counter that numerical superiority. Only twice in Mystaran history was Alphatia able to focus that numerical superiority against Thyatis: in 960 AC the Spike Assault very nearly conquered Thyatis and would have done so if not for the heroic efforts of Thincol, and in WotI when they seriously battered Thyatis and finally forced Thincol to surrender. The removal of metropolitan Alphatia from the outer world evened things up a bit -- from that point on the Thyatian Empire was able to confront what remained of the Alphatian Empire on an equal basis, especially once "Thincol, cursed of the Immortals" was out of the way. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 01:53:24 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic: Who was Who's Allies and to what Purpose in WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > ultimately disasterous to both empires...thus the developement of a > stalemate/cold war nature. with the addition of glantri and the HKs, wrath > implies the war was virtually won by alph even before it was declared.... > I suppose there is this one more point I Ought to make before I call it quits: Glantri and the HKs are not thrown in as additional allies for Thyatis to have in an Alph-Thy war. Thyatis and the HKs are thrown in as additional allies for *Glantri* to have. The difference may seem semantic and slight, but it is not. First off, in effect Thyatis is *substituted* for Glantri in the war - Alphatian and Glantrian troops never cross swords. The closest they get is in the formation of a Mutual Monster Society, disrupting each other's social season and teaparties. Little old ladies in each country are not amused. But as far as the plot goes, Thyatis' forces are substituted for Glantri's, not because the Thy-Alph match up is a gross missmatch, but because (and appologies to Glantri fans), the Glantri-Alphatia matchup is a major missmatch. Thyatis fills in the gap, and Glantri doesn't really get involved in the battles. So that's the one "ally". What of the other ally? Well, we can virtually surmise why they were included: they were included for the oportunity to look good. Again, they don't really fight in the war against Alphatia, until the very end when a few are thrown in so that they can return home as heros (or at least that's what WotI says - that they are heros in their own lifetime). They spend the war skirmishing with Ethengari and thumping on 'noids. They're a non-factor against Alphatia. So WotI comes down to a war between Alphatia and Glantri where, because Glantri just doesn't match up with Alphatia, Thyatis was substituted as the opponent. The HKs are in their for "further the future plot" device reasons, not as a part of the war effort as such. As we already went over before, WotI is about creaming Thyatis, removing (mainland) Alphatia from the surface, disposing of Alfheim, putting SEs on the surface where they can interact with the rest of the pond, and elivating Karameikos. Throw the HKs in there as being involved so they could get good press in partial comphensation for the bad press they got in the Princess Ark series. As far as the strategic elements of the "main event" go, however, you're just wrong: Thyatis isn't given the HKs & Glantri as allies to even out a missmatch. What happens is that old Civil War practice (and other wars as well in other nations, also) - when you're drafted, if you don't want to go, you find a substitute. Glantri gets Thyatis to serve as its substitute. The rest is effectively Alph vs Thy, with Thyatis hamstrung and handicapped in many ways, in order to achieve the plot result (Alphatia gets removed irregardless of how Thyatis performs in the war, so they don't have to suffer under the same disabilities for their result to occur - but Thyatis has to perform badly so that the aspect of the plot wherin it gets creamed can be fullfilled). Anyhow, with that I think my participation in this thread should end. I think I've explored about every aspect I care to. If you & Rob want to go on, or if someone else wants to chime in, then more power to you. And if you have retorts to what I've argued (as no doubt you will), feel free to post 'em and I'll be happy to read 'em, with interest. But this could go on forever if I keep replying, and as I said in the other post I think it will just go in circles. So I should find something more productive to do - I'm way behind on several projects. It's been interesting, though. "It's been real, and it's been fun, but it ain't been real fun." - Sean. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:09:45 +0100 Reply-To: mystara@com.bi Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Darokin/Glantri/Sind Map Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit like we say here in france: "les grands esprits se rencontrent" ( great spirits meet ) anyway i was precisely redoing my 8 miles per hex verion of Sind.Unfortunately the prog i use has a maximum number of hex it can draw.But with careful choice i think it might be possible to make four maps and then to put then in a chart on a html file so that they look as only one big map. just give me a week or two, i have just finnished the eastern isle of dawn in 8 miles per hex (up to Ochalea) and i hope to finnish the western portion by the end of the week. I'll stick to your command just after this. see you. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:24:32 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > < to just go really by DM call and shifting bodies of troops around on the > floor :)>> > >ah...then that explains a good deal. fortunately much of the wrath battle >theme is offered. so really the DM is left to fill in the details. if i may >ask how did yall address the battles in Darokin? Mmm, well I didnt touch Darokin. Our group is weird, its split between Exeter and Southampton - Exeter does the Thy vs Alphatia, Southampton does Hule vs Everyone Else :) (Im Exeter). >the inferno at Aasla was too easy and too awkward. it seems a no brainer that >fire retardant spells (at least against normal fires) would have been used to >at least protect the hulls. fire was the bane of RW wooden navies and is a >steady danger even in modern vessels. masts and riggings would not be >economically feasible for enchanting. so by preserving the hulls the fleet is >just out of action pending repairs. it keeps them out of the war until the >battles of retebius and possibly kantrium, where the RAF and alph fleet could >stalemate and virtually wipe each other out. the glantrian skyships may be a >problem as glantri's contributions to the thyatian forces are not mentioned. >however, glantri does have those skyships....FireFlies or something....in the >Glantri Gaz. since there are no mention of them in post wrath materials it is >feasible that they were sent to bolster thyatian RAF forces but were >destroyed in the fighting. if you don't have the glantri gaz i could dig it >out and send the info to you. Cool. No, I dont have the Glantri gaz, I just have G:KoM which doesnt have any mention of skyships in it. The skyships I mentioned are a result of a PCs meddling, rather than adherence to canon, so yeah I know the RAF didn't have them into the canon timeline. Incidentally, the RAF won. But they took so many casualties they were rendered "combat ineffective". Though thats a bit of fine line to dispute ;) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:26:05 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Atraughin culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: Alexander Osias > Regarding the culture and what held them back: > > Being Filipino and anguishing about the things that have held us back > (despite being touted as the next Asian Tiger twice in the past 50 years, > yeah right), I can suggest a few things. > > 1. They excel individually and in small groups, but anything larger and > they begin CLASHING due to their innately independent nature and feeling > that each one knows EXACTLY what to do - which differs from everyone else's > opinion. > > 2. They are extremely regionalistic and spend most time warring. > Being Filipino myself, I know what Alex means. And I agree that that could be what's holding back them tribes. Kit Navarro fanavarro@pacific.net.ph ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:30:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Iulius Sergius Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some time ago I posted part 2 of Iulius Scaevola's life, but as no response was given, I don't know if it ever arrived. If it didn't, tell me and I will send it again If it did WELL TELL ME SOMETHING!!! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort (1st Bandon) Port Lucinius ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:47:06 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: harri m�ki Subject: Update Hi all, I just added to my site first part of Giovanni Porpora's Glantrian Political History, two minor family histories and inserted family connections between nobles in Noble Families -file. Harri Sunpoint.net - Kolmannen sukupolven Internet-palvelu http://www.sunpoint.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:56:57 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Web address for Tome of Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, guys. Could anyone tell me the web address for the Tome of Mystara? I thought it was www.geocities.com/mystaratome but GeoCities was giving me a 403 error (which is an access denied error). I tried /tomeofmystara, too, but I didn't think that one was it, either. Thanks in advance, John Hofmann ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:13:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Gnomes: Under the Sea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well Darth, this idea is not only existant but actually quite developed. I have devoted part of my website to the seagnome denizens of Deepreach. = Most of my work is not yet online (most of it is not even on paper :-(=20 But you can find a lot about gnomes in my site (see the Boldavian Prince = below). I would recommend you read the History part, there is a timeline there = developed by myself and Marco Dalmonte. In Marco's page you can find the same timeline in a more general-gnomish = content.=20 Also, the gnomes of Davania are developed by a lot of people mainly (and = I could be mistaken here sorry) Ethan, and Geoff Gander. You can also find a beutiful article cold DMs guide to Davania, by the = Davania Team. More about Earthshaker gnomes there. Hope you will find your trip through non-canon gnomish societies to your = liking, Morphail (Ohad Shaham) "and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- = http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:56:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E0=E9=EC=EF_=F9=E7=ED?= Subject: Re: Web address for Tome of Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I also got that error today, trying to acess my own page! Does anyone know how to fix that? -----Original Message----- From: John R Hofmann [SMTP:djemonk@JUNO.COM] Sent: =E3 =E9=F0=E5=E0=F8 26 2000 13:57 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: [MYSTARA] Web address for Tome of Mystara? Hi, guys. Could anyone tell me the web address for the Tome of Mystara? I thought it was www.geocities.com/mystaratome but GeoCities was giving me a 403 error (which is an access denied error). I tried /tomeofmystara, too, but I didn't think that one was = it, either. Thanks in advance, John Hofmann ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: = http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:02:04 -0500 Reply-To: Lawrence Cabrera Sender: Mystara From: Lawrence Cabrera Subject: Re: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, what's the deal?? When I went to the site I got a FORBIDDEN ERROR. I even got it when I tried your link, what gives? Law ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jenn" To: Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 12:04 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] > Tome of Mystara Issue #2 is here! > > And it's loaded with great new stuff! Including: > > - Tervine's Travels, by Carl Quaif; > - Artwork and photography by Tim Weiser and Heather > Siple; > - 7 new maps by Thibault Sarlat; > - Fiction from Kevin Turner and Scott Hertzberg; > - Articles by Geoff Gander, John Calvin, and others; > - Part two of John Calvin's Lost Nation Series > adventures, "Night of the Blue Sun"; - Special > feature, the Gazetteer of The Dragon Kingdom of > Wyrmteeth, by Giulio Caroletti; > ...And more! > > Check it out! :-) It's at: > http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/tomevol2/cover.html > > or, just follow the link to our main page, below. > Thanks! > > > Jennifer Favia Guerra > Editor, Tome of Mystara > > http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Introducing- Arrh! > >Thought I'd do this as a tongue-in-cheek joke: > >Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) LOL! This si a great one, Andrew! I think I'll actually put him into my campaign! :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:49:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Web address for Tome of Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I also got that error today, trying to acess my own page! Does anyone know how to fix that? ---------- Yes, run away from GeoCities!!!!!!!!!! they are always facing problems of browser incompatibility, especially with the automatic banner stuff... Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:44:49 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James Ruhland writes: >Creating a continent-sized land mass isn't the big deal: that's about 10 PPs ("small moon") IMO it's pretty complex, though (has to be shaped to orbit around the HW sun, is not spherical, gets its own skyshield), so add +20 PPs, for a total of 30 PPs. Not a big deal overall. . .for the continent itself. Add in creating all the life forms, trees, animals, bodies for the people (5,000,000+), etc. Uncalcuable.< Yeah, this is a big problem. More so than the buildings however (see below). >Build all the buildings, cities, other structures, replace the magic items, jewelery, clothing & other posessions the Alphatians remember themselves having. At a cost of 1 PP per 10,000gp value. Absolutely astronomical.< Do the immortals have to do it this way though? By just expending 50 TP they have access to all mortal spells...same spells the Alphies used to build most of their cities I would guess. Stone form, followed by permanence...I don't think that the immortals would need to spend PP on this. However in this case, I'm not sure how much time they would have to spend on the recreation...probably more than they did. I agree, they don't seem to have moved the stuff from the bottom of the ocean, otherwise there would be no treasure hunters, ruins, or zombies. Creating the life forms from scratch seems to be the only prohibitive cost. You bring up another good point which is this: No other culture has ever been saved wholesale in the HW. The immortals only move in small portions of it. Note the word MOVE. Never before have they RE-CREATED a culture in the HW from scratch. In fact, IIRC they were in quite a bind after the GRoF, and lost many cultures to that catastrophie. They didn't re-create them after the loss (in my opinion that would have lessened the impact of the GRoF), so why do they do so for Alphatia? The whole thing is pretty far fetched. However having said that, let me pose a far fetched answer (just for fun). Let's say that both before and after the GRoF, some immortals were placing Blackmoorian cultures on the continent of Jompher. Since that time the HW BKs have grown in strength. The SoP starts weakening. A few of the immortals get a little nervous. They orchestrate the entire WotI with the sole purpose of destroying Alphatia so that they can move it wholesale into the HW as an opposition to the rising tech of Jompher BK... ;-) Hehe, the whole thing is a little tongue in cheak, but perhaps with some refinement it could make more sense than our current explinations...plus we could put all of that tech vs. magic theory into practice. [Rantings from a pro-Blackmoorian ;)] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:51:34 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Immortals: Heresies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii James Ruhland writes: >The discussion of Immortals prodded me to ask this question: What sort of "heresies" do you think there are (or perhaps were in the past) on Mystara? Divergent ways of venerating this or that Immortal or group of Immortals? Perhaps the Immortal(s) themselves don't mind these variations, but they led too or will lead to conflict among their followers who see their way of doing things as "right" and the other's as "deviant heretics corrupting the true faith". Anyone develop any interesting Mystaran Heresies?< I'm at a loss for a Mystaran name for this one but: How about the "Worf" heresy for a cult of Vanya. They fight the inner battle as opposed to the outer battle. This one would be a real hit in Heldann. I don't know how Vanya would take it. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:55:33 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Introducing- Arrh! In-Reply-To: <20000125185449.12696.qmail@aw161.netaddress.usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Thought I'd do this as a tongue-in-cheek joke: > > Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) Is he related to St Aaargh from Cornwall? ;) H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:05:41 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Darth Darknerd wrote: > This is an idea I found for HighForge. Great Idea! Howabout combining this idea with the my idea about the Northland Gnomes of Underyord? Nicolas Hudson wrote an article on these that you can find on www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mystara.html Basically the idea is that the gnomes of the northern reaches weren't exterminated, they only went deep underground. The Highforge gnomes probably still dont know about them, but will make contact when the gnomes of Highforge travel far enough into the Northern Reaches. Someone mentioned Blackmoor gnomes, but Gnomes were created long after the destruction of that civilization. However, Garal, could easily have placed gnomes among surviving Blackmoor Dwarves. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:08:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Elves? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Has anyone made a list of all the elven clans of Mystara? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 09:12:28 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii David Knott writes: Ok, I buy this. The point that I was trying to make (and I guess using Vanya and the HKs as an example was not the best choice) was this: Just because two immortals are allied, doesn't mean that the followers of those two immortals should form an alliance. I haven't looked over Wrath for a while now, but it seems to me that this is what happened. Thyatis and Glantri formed an alliance. HKs join the alliance. (Did Alfheim as well, I can't recall?) Thyatis and Glantri never have to atually sign papers in order for WotI to work, and in my opinion this just makes the whole think a bit sillier than it already is. True on both points. Crippling the Alfheimers would have been seen as a boon to the Glantrians. A forest full of SE would not have seemed so nice. Just because the SE are AEs enemy, doesn't follow that they must be freinds of Glantri. Now the immortals (Rad and Rafiel) may have had an agreement (temporary or oterwise), but I don't think that the majority of Glantrians would have welcomed a SE emergence with open arms. It would have made them nervous, and they still would have focused military attention on their southern border IMO. Agreed about Alphatia. See below for Thyatis. OK. This is a good point. However Thyatis is still a huge resource, even if it is shared among several different immortals. I'm not sure that they would "write it off". Besides Vanya is not the only immortal in Thyatis. She can't tell them to go off and fight Alphatia (and die) unless all of the other Thyatian immortals are in agreement with her (which I doubt). What I think would result is a bunch of conflicting orders from a bunch of conflicting immortals, rendering Thyatis virtually disfunctional during the war. They would defend their territory, and probably attack weakened Alphatian ports, but I doubt that they would directly side with Glantri. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:15:38 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Introducing- Arrh!] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H=E5vard wrote: >>On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: >> >> Thought I'd do this as a tongue-in-cheek joke: >> >> Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) > >Is he related to St Aaargh from Cornwall? ;) They're the same person, actually. Arrh was the patron of the saxon raide= rs that came to the shores of Briton, and became adopted by the native popul= ace there, over time. Eventually, with the coming of Christianity, he was canonized and became St. Aaargh. (The Romanized version of his name.) :) Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:18:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Alexander Osias wrote: >Regarding the culture and what held them back: > >1. They excel individually and in small groups, but anything larger and= >they begin CLASHING due to their innately independent nature and feeling= >that each one knows EXACTLY what to do - which differs from everyone >e= lse's opinion. > >2. They are extremely regionalistic and spend most time warring. I'd normally agree that this was probably a big part of it, but unforunat= ely, Gaz14 would have us believe that, since the coming of Atruaghin, all the = clans (with the exception of the Tiger clan) are living in peace and harmony am= ongst themselves, and singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy fam-i-ly.= =2E." all day long. I think Atruaghin's symbol is a big, purple dinosaur, isn't= it?. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:07:14 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: A Couple of Wierd Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave by? a. Baron Norlan b. Bargle the Infamous c. Barrimor d. Stefan Karameikos e. other- please state 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into Hule. Which would you pick? a. Battle Axe b. Long Sword c. Alphatian Man-o-War d. Nuclear Missile 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you aim it and why? Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:17:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: harri m�ki Subject: A Couple of Wierd Questions Comments: To: anowack@JUNO.COM > (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > > 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > by? > > a. Baron Norlan > b. Bargle the Infamous > c. Barrimor > d. Stefan Karameikos > e. other- please state > Barimoor. Wizard who is nearly immortal, yuk. > 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > Hule. Which would you pick? > > a. Battle Axe > b. Long Sword > c. Alphatian Man-o-War > d. Nuclear Missile Battle Axe > > 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you > aim > it and why? > Ethengar. To ensure that there would nevermore raise a great khan. Sunpoint.net - Kolmannen sukupolven Internet-palvelu http://www.sunpoint.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:34:18 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: A Couple of Wierd Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > > 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > by? > > a. Baron Norlan > b. Bargle the Infamous > c. Barrimor > d. Stefan Karameikos > e. other- please state > Shave? Probably Stefan. They can all be compelled to behave, but Stefan is, what? Over 70 years old? The guy's prolly got a case of the shakes like you wouldn't believe. I couldn't trust him to hold the blade steady. > 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > Hule. Which would you pick? > > a. Battle Axe > b. Long Sword > c. Alphatian Man-o-War > d. Nuclear Missile > All of the above. > 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you aim > it and why? > I'd be using it as a doorstop. Why do you ask? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:20:34 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia In-Reply-To: <20000126154449.16674.qmail@web1203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, John Calvin wrote: > point which is this: No other culture has ever been > saved wholesale in the HW. The immortals only move in > small portions of it. Note the word MOVE. Never > before have they RE-CREATED a culture in the HW from > scratch. In fact, IIRC they were in quite a bind > after the GRoF, and lost many cultures to that > catastrophie. They didn't re-create them after the > loss (in my opinion that would have lessened the > impact of the GRoF), so why do they do so for > Alphatia? > Because they know the destruction of Alphatia was caused by the Immortals and it's their mess to clean up. It was a complete violation of the laws against immortal interfence with mortals. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:08:11 -0800 Reply-To: Jenni Merrifield Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: Darokin/Glantri/Sind Map Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII thibault sarlat wrote: >like we say here in france: "les grands esprits se rencontrent" ( great >spirits meet ) Heh. In english we would say "great minds think alike" (occasionaly followed by the rejoinder "and fools seldom differ", but I digress) >anyway i was precisely redoing my 8 miles per hex verion of >Sind.Unfortunately the prog i use has a maximum number of hex it can >draw. But with careful choice i think it might be possible to make four >maps and then to put then in a chart on a html file so that they look as >only one big map. That would be great. As long as I can see where they meet and how far apart the various borders are, that's all I ask. :-) >just give me a week or two, i have just finnished the eastern isle of >dawn in 8 miles per hex (up to Ochalea) and i hope to finnish the >western portion by the end of the week. >I'll stick to your command just after this. Good enough. Looking forward to it. :-) Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:03:38 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul Benfield Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oh I like the way this one goes, Halflings/Hin often get a rough deal - maybe they should finally get fed up with the abuse and turn on their oppressors! Paul Benfield ----- Original Message ----- From: Magister Mystaros To: Sent: 25 January 2000 04:40 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hin: Way of Life > In a message dated 1/24/00 11:32:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: > > << And it would certainly give Mystara a unique twist > -- what other setting has evil halflings intent on (and perhaps even capable > of) world domination?>> > > Hmmm... wasn't Athas (the Dark Sun world) once ruled by Halflings? Hmmmm... > maybe Athas is Mystara far in the future after Mystara was conquered by the > Hin of the Five Shires! Yikes! I guess that would answer the question about > psionics in Mystara once and for all... > > :) > > Magister Mystaros > Exalted Mage of Mystara > Chronicler of Pandius > All-around Party Animal > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:07:04 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul Benfield Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, Recently on the list there was a debate about how fantasy has changed, one thing I've noticed is the apparent backlash against elves. For some reason lot's of TSR and other fantasy settings have elves on the decline, almost extinct or generally miserable (e.g. Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, the blood elves in Earthdawn). What have elves done to deserve this treatment? I'm not an elf fanatic by the way, I usually play humans. Just my opinion... Paul Benfield ----- Original Message ----- From: Aaron E Nowack To: Sent: 25 January 2000 05:02 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Aengmor > On Mon, 24 Jan 2000 23:31:37 EST David Knott writes: > > In a message dated 2000-01-24 3:42:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > anowack@JUNO.COM writes: > > > > << In a project I've been tinkering on and of with, a little thing > > detailing > > a possible future for Mystara, everything seemed to be headed > > toward a > > lasting peace between the AE and SE. Then disaster struck. > > > > At some big event where all the major peace proponents were, a > > tremendous > > explosion occured wiping out all present. Both sides blamed the > > other, > > and all out war broke out, eventually drawing in all elves > > everywhere. > > > > By the as yet undetermined date for this project, elves are > > generally > > believed to be extinct due to this war. >> > > > > That seems to be a tall order. Assuming that you have decided to > > disregard > > the Hollow World elves (who certainly will escape becoming > > involved), there > > are many groups of elves that you would have to draw into this war, > > including: > > > > Aquatic Elves > > exterminated by devilfish during same period... > > > Elves of Norwold > > Ally with AE. > > > Elves of Wendar and Denagoth > > Wars with shadow lord ally with AE. > > > Elves of the Savage Coast > > Eventualy evolve into the self-perpetuating half-elf race. > > > Elves of the Sylvan Realm > > Not known to the KW (one thing that's going to happen is the trend of > globalization will reverse) > > > Glantrian Elves (especially those of Belcadiz) > > Erewan ally with AE and are weakened by orc raids. don't know about > Belcadiz yet. > > > Minrothad Elves (Water and Wood Elves) > > Don't know > > > Callarii Elves of Karameikos > > Will be caught up in Karameikan Civil war and Thyatian invasion. > > > Vyalia Elves of Thyatis > > Same as above > > > Grakhalian Elves > > Not known and already nearly wipedout by Master. > > > Killing off all of those elves (or even making it seem that they > > were all > > killed > > off) would seem to me to be a most formidable task. > > Like I said they are _believed to be extinct to the people of the KW. A > very few still exist. > > Also, this is just something I've been tinkering with. I'm not sure how > it will turn out yet. > > > Aaron Nowack > "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:13:59 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul Benfield Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I've read a great many emails about the WOTI now and can only agree with those writers who critisize this product. It has IMHO wrecked several areas of the KW. Why the writer felt it necessary to smash comets into the planet, use the equivalent of a nuclear device to blast Alphatia of the surface and generally inflict a badly scripted and very illogical war is beyond me. I know reasons have been given for many aspects of the war, and why it was written like that but still it is canon and has shaped the development of the world in such a way that I am left to completely diverge my ideas from *canon* if I want to keep key realms in my campaign in existance - i.e Alphatia and Alfheim. All I really wanted to say was that Mystara seems to be yet another victim of the apparent policy of 'shaking up' worlds that afflicted many TSR settings around that time (Greyhawk was devestated much to a friends displeasure; and the Realms endured the Time of Troubles with some very dodgy goings-on). Although change is healthy to a settings these massive upheavals leave players feeling that their characters are not so 'heroic' anymore as they cannot do anything for their homelands that would make the slightest bit of difference... Sorry if that was a long moan. Paul Benfield ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroletti To: Sent: 25 January 2000 08:27 Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI > James Ruhland ha scritto: > > > > > > > First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal > > should > > > have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of that > > > nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and recent > > plots > > > against the Alfheim elves. > > > Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in > > > disregarding events in Alfheim. > > > > > Hyper Snipping > > > > Snip snip snip > > > > > Vanya put the two areas where she is revered most strongly on the line for > > Rad? Why risk either or both of them getting cremed on his behalf > > (remember, IMO the strongest Anti-Glantri strategy for Alphatia is through > > Heldann, not Thyatis, in conjunction with the Ethengar as allies. But even > > so:) Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save > > Thyatis? Vanya had everything to lose their and nothing to gain by > > prolonging the struggle on Rad's/Glantri's behalf - she probably has more > > followers in Thyatis than in any other Mystaran nation, and since her > > followers tend to be militant types, they were the ones getting killed. She > > was sacrificing her base of worshipers, for no good reason. WotI certainly > > provides no real rationale for her fanatical devotion to Rad's cause. One > > can see, just barely, why Korotiku might support Rad (but his followers, in > > the Pearl Islands, bail on the whole project early on), and - again, with > > slightly but not much more rationale - why Rafiel, Ka, and Rathanos might > > (though Eiryndul is inexplicable, as is Asterius. Eiryndul has as much to > > lose from the abuse of the Radiance as Ilsundal does. Asterius has > > absolutely no dog in this fight whatsoever - they join Vanya in the "I > > gotta scratch my head as to what is going on here" category.) In some > > cases, no attempt is even made to try and explain why these Immortals > > support Rad, much less why they do so with such fierce fanaticism in open > > disregard of their own interests (getting their own followers slaughtered > > on Rad's behalf in exchange for nothing seems like the fast track to > > Immortal Fadeout). > > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em posted, > > because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for > > Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and > > veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of Alphatia > > (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the Immortals, > > where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who are > > only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality of > > I think WotI's adventure book is interesting, but it's not well developed. > It could have been done a million times better. Ilsundal, as you said, results > as a complete idiot; and no reason can be given for so many Immortals > sponsoring Rad. If I had written the story, Rad would not have had 3 allies, > and thus the thing ends. No Wrath of the Immortals. BUT, we can still > have a major war going on with similar results without involving them...I > really think that while a poor sod (was it Aaron Allston?) was preparing > a major war in Mystara to create havoc and confusion, TSR went to him > and said: "Hey, Aaron, you gonna put in your adventure a lot of Immortals. > Why? Because you must make an Immortal Rules Book revising the ol' > Gold Box for the Rules Cyclopedia." And it seems > he didn't know how to do. > > I think I will soon re-write all the motivations of the WotI, stripping it of, > I hope, most of the logical incongruences. Then I'll post it > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:03:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: A Couple of Wierd Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > > 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > by? > > a. Baron Norlan > b. Bargle the Infamous > c. Barrimor > d. Stefan Karameikos > e. other- please state Eusebius "Thincolsson" Torion, if ever there was one slick, untrustworthy eel. > 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > Hule. Which would you pick? > > a. Battle Axe > b. Long Sword > c. Alphatian Man-o-War > d. Nuclear Missile Alphatian Man'o'War, Alphatia rules all > 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you > aim > it and why? I'd teleport it smack into the middle of the City of the Stars, Alfheim shall rise again. > Sunpoint.net - Kolmannen sukupolven Internet-palvelu > http://www.sunpoint.net > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:25:52 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Hin: Way of Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Oh I like the way this one goes, > Halflings/Hin often get a rough deal - maybe they should finally get fed up > with the abuse and turn on their oppressors! > I've never heard of Darokin & Karameikos described as Hin-opressors before (well, *I've* described Karameikos as an opressive state, but I'm a freak.) Interesting take on things. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:25:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Giovanni Porpora Subject: R: [MYSTARA] A Couple of Wierd Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > > 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > by? > > a. Baron Norlan > b. Bargle the Infamous > c. Barrimor > d. Stefan Karameikos > e. other- please state Stefan Karameikos, obviously he's the least skilled of the group :) > 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > Hule. Which would you pick? > > a. Battle Axe > b. Long Sword > c. Alphatian Man-o-War > d. Nuclear Missile Stefan Karameikos ? A nuclear missile ? ahahahahahahaha...I'll take the long sword. > 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you aim > it and why? I'd aim it to Sundsvall Maelstrom : history always repeats itself .... Bye Giovanni ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:39:31 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Tactics vs Magic - I hate it when I use the wrong email ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, I hate to sling counterquotes, but in the Ylaraum gaz, you may find Gaz 2, p.14, 2nd collumn, "The Alphatian colonial forces were of extremely poor quality, depending on the fearsome firepower of their magical support units. Al-Kalim's mounted archers and warriors made short work of the magical brigades, shattering their morale with showers of arrows, then maneuvering around the disorganized infantry and charging through the magic users ranks with devastating effect." The Alphatian army is Not the Empire at its Best. The point is, it provides ample evidence, backed up by DoE, that the Alphie fighter contingent is probably a force in some decay, denied backing from the "mage-ist" aristocracy, and probably relegated to garrison duties rather than being honed to defeat Thyatis. Which is why I suggested wave tactics for the Alphatian fighters - really, the fighters are a distraction so the mages can go to work. > < the front line must have been quite heavily fortified by both sides. They > were sitting there for nigh on 2 years after all...>> > >well the truth is that no one knows. and ultimately it comes to the >individual campaign. my own choice would be a series of small fronts where >several "tit for tat" battles rage with no apparent victor.....at least >victory producing the objective cities or an ousting of alph troops. hence >you have a stalemate. Well, the timeline doesnt tell you precisely when each yard of ground is gained by Alphatian troops. I imagine that to besiege Redstone there had to be a lot of fighting beforehand. I kindof assume that the two armies are at it for the whole time, wearing each other down, with perhaps a gradual Alphatian push to the west. But as you say, each to everyones campaign. > < sides - defending against the north as well as the east. This is quite late > on in the war too so you can expect some war weariness from both sides. > That could be the last straw.>> > >well it depends. in a trench type war front it is feasible that segments of >either line are squatters during the bulk of the fighting. with such a broad >front fighting would probably be more central to land avenues more beneficial >to breakthroughs and followup counterattacks. the long lines making up the >front being a general counter to troops opposite them. to a degree it would >be similar to the Phoney War period for most of the front, however >breakthrough battles and light skirmishes prevail in sensitive areas. The Phoney War did take place - declaration of war took place at the beginning of 1005, the Alphatians actually made their first offensive in the autumn of that year. What you suggest is that each side did nothing. I doubt that. The Alphatians probably want results, and probably underestimate their foe. Given the fact that the fighter in Alphatia is regarded in a similar way as we might regard a guard dog, they are probably quite happy to lock into a war of attrition. After all, Alphatia is the larger. Attrition would be a viable tactic for them. >i agree. i use to max out my 1st level PCs....sometimes even starting them at >2nd level. i especially did this level boost in regards to mages. > ><< In AD&D your level 2 fighters will have 10+1d10 hit points, and a magic > missile is just a flyswat.>> > >oh i don't know. 1d4+1 is still a sizable chunk of a F2 NPC's hps. these are >rank and file troops not PCs. a wound is still a wound whether its 50% or 25% >of the total hps...morale check. and a hit should equate a similar loss of >concentration...perhaps no more than loss of initiative. unlike PCs a trooper >may not have that desire to gamble his life to the mortality aspect. PCs are >another matter. better equipped and full of adventurous zeal they may be more >inclined to take their hps to the limit. however, i think that even they >would fall back if the hp toll fell to single digit range....probable death >with successful hit. 1d4+1 is a scratch with a dagger. It is not going to rout the enemy. Especially 2nd level fighters. These guys are blooded troops, or they would be level 0. They will take the d4+1, and then close to melee. And then the boltmen will be taking d8+2 at least in melee. Course, if you are saying that d4+1 damage will cause a rout, I dont fancy the boltmens chances when the archers open up. Even the odd critical hit will do around 8, getting on for triple what a magic missile does. And the boltmen have less hit points. Run away!!!! >well the boltmen...as any low level mage...is physically weak and limited to >AC improvements. ammo supply is not that bad....comparable to a quiver of >arrows (20 charges). damage is not too different from an arrow. the boon for >the boltman is the automatic hit. the magic missile is specific in that >regard. the offset is that the spell's single bolt is not singularly fatal to >most opponents. the exception is another 1st level mage or a normal human. The automatic hit is not really worth much to be honest. Longbows will be at short range at this point - with a ROF of 2 thats practically an automatic hit for the fighters (OK, not quite, but longbows do more damage). And a longbow shot could be fatal to a 2nd level mage, or quite conceivably even a 3rd. If you reckon a volley of magic missiles will cause a rout, a hail of arrows will DEFINITELY cause a rout. >alone....yes the boltmen would be outranged and picked off at a safe >distance. that's why i offer the point that a boltmen unit would have to have >a support contingent of archers and infantry. even the PWA OOBs and even CoM >offer Boltmen (or M1 light infantry) being accompanied by fighter based >troops. Alphies consider fighters to be Scum. Boltmen must be such snobs mixed up with these guys. Reminds me of an anecdote of the War of Independence (i havnt reached for the history book, so this could be just fiction) where two British generals who despised each other absolutely refused to help each other out, even costing them victories. Maybe they could send in a wave of fighters to break the defences, while volleying magic missiles into the scrum. Sounds far more likely. Incidentally, another point re. cooperation. I know PWA2 changes all of this, but in PWA1 the Alphatian Army is split into lots of local kingdom militias. I can imagine this would cause problems insofar as cooperation is concerned. Bit like in WW2 when the Luftwaffe was split into four airfleets - this caused inefficiency, duplication and poor cooperation in the German air service (it had its advantages too, mind). Such an organisation is unlikely to foster close cooperation. The RAF was able to do as well as it did in WW2 because quite often the air fleets failed to coordinate adequately and effectively sent in their fighters piecemeal. Not to mention the fact that the quality of the four Luftwaffe commanders varied, from the superlative to the merely competent. Furthermore, you are effectively talking here about cooperation between naval (Boltmen) and army (Soldiers) forces. I doubt boltmen are typically trained in formation fighting, as they serve on board ships. And naval/army cooperation is demanding even nowadays, with highly trained and disciplined troops. Probably didnt do the Skyflying Boltmen morale much good either, being told they were being sent to serve with the poor groundbound infantry. And why would the Alphies even bother, with this massive training, and this cultural shift? When they can just send in a herd of levies and then exploit the chaos with magic anyway? They have a near limitless supply of soldiers to draw from. Not like anyone values them, eh? >they might charge if they had not experienced a boltmen type firing line. >they may even charge if they have overwhelming numbers. however in a >conventional battle where gratuatous losses are to be avoided i doubt that a >blind charge would be called up. note i offered manuever or skilled tactics >to overcome a firing line. but such tactics are involved in assaulting such >opposition. with support of archers and fighter troops the firing line is a >tough obstacle. the same can be said for a shield wall or pike line with >archer or crossbow support. you either accept the losses or outmaneuver the >firing line. Any force worth its brain can recognise a firing line. Armies dont normally charge into walls of archers either. Even if there was a firing line of boltmen, thats when you send in your light cavalry to strafe from long range. Failing that, just use your normal archers. At the end of the day, the boltmen are woefully inadequate when used at long range. Why not just use archers? Better in almost every respect? When the boltmen are getting shot up, they have three choices - charge and give up any positional advantage, retreat and lose, or stay and take damage. Because the Alphies dont give archers respect. They give magic respect, for good or ill. Thats their national character. >so now it becomes a suicide charge on the alphers' part. doubtful, especially >with the noble class boltmen at stake. imo boltmen are shock troops using the >maneuverability and cover of the skyships to unleash a quick series of >volleys on an opposing force before moving out of range. without their >skyships (sans Aasla inferno) i think that they would be used more >conservatively on the battlefield. they'd probably be held as a frontline >reserve for enemy charges or as a deterent boost against an enemy charge. >unless they have a sizable protective fighter/archer abteilung about them i >doubt that they'd be used in a direct assault role. Well, someone is going to have to charge that Thyatian position. Thats what the Alphies were doing. I agree though, the boltmen would be back at base supping the zzonga wine while the peasant levies are charging and getting massacred by the defenders. ><< They have a history of just moving in by weight of numbers, and then being > ousted when their odious tyranny looks too much. Read the Ylaraum gaz, the > Alphatians were a soft option for the Ylari, due to their incompentence. > They threw them out no probs, while it says that the Thyatian troops proved > to be much harder to dislodge.>> > >where exactly does it say that the alphers were softer than the thyatians? Check out the top of this post. >other incompetant acts are by no means an alph monopoly. both alph and thy >are pegged as being harsh to the local ylari, depending on allied local >tribes to bolster forces, and focus on their rival empire colonies. >you have to remember that the ylari campaign was a sideshow and not an all >out invasion. you should also note the thyatian presence who were probably >seen as the real opponent. ylari was a border war, much like NW and the IoD. The Gaz mentions that the Ylari hated both of them. They just beat up the Alphies first, coz they were the soft option. As for Ylaraum being a sideshow - this sort of thing seems to have been duplicated in several other places long ago, like Glantri, Thyatis, Ochalea, the Isle of Dawn... its almost an Alphatian specialty. ><< Individualism is not exactly a desirable trait in a well ordered fighting > machine. Just look at Planescape for some extreme alignment examples. The > well oiled fighting machines can be found on Mechanus, Arcadia, Acheron and > Baator - ie, all the lawful planes.>> > >or one could look at RW Rome and her uniform troops and formations to see the >benefits of unison against the more physical and individualistic warriors >(germanic tribes, celts, goths). however, individuality breeds variation and >variation produces unpredictability and distinction. in war individuality is >full of its own merit....as both heroes and PCs are highly individualistic no >matter what alignment they adhere to. uniform continuity in forces is great >as long as the standard practices are the superior of an opposition force. if >they are not the entire army is doomed as there is a lessened base for >variation and adaptation. I dont know about that, the party I DM for is a well honed team. Everyone pulls their weight, everyone has a place in the battle. Its a team. I ran Bluetspur for them - they cruised it. The NPC bad guys were all harder than they were individually, but the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Its up to the command ranks to be individualistic and innovative. Its up to the troops to do exactly what the command ranks say. The army is the weapon. When wielding a sword you want it to be light, responsive, swing exactly where you want it to swing. Not wander all about the shop, hacking at random. ><< I also note that this is sort of mentioned in the morale rules - chaotic > troops get a penalty, while lawful troops get a bonus. ie, if you are an > individual, with no sense of "capbadge honour" as they call it in the > British army, you are more concerned with your own hide rather than that of > your unit. So, you are more likely to run away when the going gets tough.>> > >well that's dependant upon the perception of alignment. though chaotic the >alpher way of life is probably deemed quite lawful by alpher standards. >alphatian chaos does not precisely follow chaotic=evil doctrine. also wrath >was a special war. it was fought based on race against the hated rival >barbarian thyatians, the magical rival and flaem harboring glantrians, and >unbeknownst to most the fate of magic and consequentially the alpher way of >life. i'd also like to re-point out that alpher chaotic tendencies are not >indicative to the whole alpher people. DotE is quite explicit that the >chaotic, individualism is predominent in the noble class. likewise if the >alphers were uniformly chaotic then how could they exist as a people under a >social structure designed to favor a minority for over 2000 years. there is a >simple order amid the chaos...an accepted status quo that translates alpher >chatic tendencies into a lawful society by their own standards. That morale mention doesnt go by chaotic = evil either. It points out that, if you see your friends being cut down, and you reckon your next, do you a) run, and save your own life b) stay, stand with your companions and risk death No good or evil here. Its more of Individual versus Battalion. I agree that the noble class may be a different case. But lets be honest, do these ground down pieces of furniture (ie, Alphatian mundanes - who are not even allowed to grow their hair long if I recall, talk about totalitarian regimes! long hair is an offence) REALLY hate the Thyatians enough to die for the Greater Good of Alphatia? ><< An army should not be a collection of individuals. Its all about teamwork. > All the tactics you mention are about teamwork. It all flies in the face of > their alignment and national character. Boltmen hiding behind shieldbearers? > Sure, it may be a good tactic, but it doesnt strike me as an Alphatian > tactic.>> > >yep i'd agree with some of the above. one thing that is universally hammered >into raw recruits is the team concept. evenin the US and its chaotic society >the military is a rather strict society apart from the civilian society. >military life is a neccessary paradox where freedom loving individuals put >asside a good degree of their own personal freedom for the preservation and >defense of the civilian freedoms. it's not just a US attribute. many european >countries follow a similar line...probably moreso now as conscription is less >manditory than during the cold war. The US values its army. Alphatia doesnt. Its more analagous to the late 1940s and early 1950s, where the US didnt give a damn about its army because it had Nukes. Alphatia has Nukes too - mages. The army can go hang. Who needs it, when we can nuke 'em? >oh yes. i doubt that most alpher know about the inner workings of most other >alpher kingdoms. i seriously doubt many can claim to have visited more than a >handful of their neighbors. i think that the emphasis on alph has been as a >singular people. imo alph is a collection of kingdoms based on race and >magic. each kingdom being distinct from its neighbors. i see the alph fuedal >system as stepped from the local level to the imperial throne. So how is this rich tapestry capable of teamwork? Every place is different. Every kingdom as its own morals, its own values, its own way of doing things, and its own rivalries. > < boltmen. I refer you to your earlier comments on Roman Tortoises (doubtless > called Thyatian Tortoises on Mystara) and shieldbearers. This is the sort > of stuff Thyatians use, lawful Thyatians, as opposed to chaotic Alphatians. > Lawful Thyatians with a highly disciplined and well trained army (the army > is constantly being harped on about in the Empire of Thyatis leaflet thingy. > In the Alphie book the army gets a paragraph).>> > >as for thy monopolies on roman tactics, i'd like to point out that the roman >tortoise formation was a variant of the shield wall tactic. though one of the >most notable designations, the shield wall is not solely seen in the roman >ranks. that frequency is why i did not offer its use as a direct adoption of >the tortoise formation, but as a derivative. and with the 1000+ years of thy >and alph rivalries, who is to say that both sides would not adopt aspects of >the tactics used by the other. Maybe some Alphatian kingdoms do. Doubtless some dont. Problems when running a cohesive army. Besides, you think the Ancient Mighty Empire of Alphatia, after 4000 years of genius, has anything to learn from the barbarian rabble? They would work out means to counter shield walls, perhaps - using magic (perhaps the fireball spell was invented for this very purpose). I doubt they would simply copy it. That is not innovative and original enough for the Alphatian mindset, and it as a tactic plays with the Alphatian weaknesses, not the Alphatian strengths. >ah therein is the problem. AD&D essentially established kits as PC classes. >even in the basic sense of class, the PHB offers variants which were >previously only available as kits or after several levels of XP advancement >through D&D. weapon specialization is also an immediate boost to melee >performance. specialization is a move to make an expert out of good weilder >of a weapon....distinguish the Robin Hoods from the Merry Men. since Well, D&D is left in the dust by the toasty stuff that AD&D characters get. Thats what the "A" mans, it means a bigger character sheet, essentially. >specialization eats up weapon prof. slots your average entry level fighter >isn't going to be too favorable to specialization. imc specialization >paralleled weapon mastery and was adopted after the pc earned a few xp >levels. afterall specialization is not an immediate priority as weaponskill >(thac0 and attacks per round) improves with xp advancement. as mentioned we >tended to postpone specialization until a few levels had been gained. the >only exceptions i can remember were a few noble family fighters who were >groomed from childhood to be an expert swordsman. as nobles they could afford >the early training. most of these were alphers who were offspring of nobles >but themselves lacked the magical ability of the parent(s). Oh I disagree here. Anyone worth anything specialises. If you are a Thy footsoldier with your 4 slots, what do you get? Specialised in shortsword, javelin and bow, probably. Maybe with some variation. If you are using kits, the Thy soldier would be a Myrmidon (ie, soldier), which grants a free weapon specialisation anyway. The myrmidon is a pretty standard kit too, its in Red Steel as well as the Complete Fighter. >actually valarius's influence may not be nearly as damning as one would >think. according to WotI > "Significantly, the Thyatian legions inside the city [thycity] are poorly >trained and badly led; they are unable to put down the rebellion. Far too >many legions from other Thyatian cities have to be called in to quell the >insurrection, but quell it they finally do." > >whether these poorly led and poorly trained troops within thycity are a >direct result of Valerias, i am unsure. if so it limits her influences to a >rather small portion of the thy forces....thycity's legions. if not the thy >forces are in a poor condition before the war and their quality suspect. >since the poor addages are centered on thycity's legions i have to assume the >presence of Valerias. I fail to see where you draw the conclusion that Valerias' efforts were limited to Thy City. Even if they were, the cream of Thyatis' army is based in Thyatis City, and probably a very significant fraction of the regulars. i assume that she worked on the upper ranks anyway, not the common footsoldier. It should be relatively easy for an Immortal to have the best generals removed and replaced with near useless Senator's nephews, or whatever. > "Over the next few weeks, the scandal continues to worsen as it is >discovered that funds that were intended to fund the free bread were diverted >to fund several senators' nightly nightly festivities, notoriously decadent >affairs. Additionally, many thyatian officers are charged with dereliction of >duty or incompetance, especially those who appear to be addicted to the >dangerous zzonga fruit; they are executed. Many of those convicted of >embezzlement, bribery, and corruption break out of jail and leave for foriegn >parts, often in the company of their paramours, women of foriegn >nationalities. Subsequent investigations of the Thyatian prisons reveals that >they are rife with corruption; dozens of jailers and military officers >involved with the prison system are executed." Well, Valerias brought zzonga to Thyatis. She did a good job eh? She had since 1000AC to get started on it, and she is a Hierarch no less. >so of those corrupted or addicted to zzonga, many are quickly executed or >flee from thy...thus removed from damaging the forces. in some ways the >scandals aid thy as it gives the empire a preemptive strike against any bad >eggs within the thy officer corp. the downside is that some damage exists in >the thycity legions. but as mentioned these legions are a minority in the >overall thy military. given that this event takes place in Spring AC1004 and >the war isn't declared until Spring AC1005, the thys have a year to fix >things. Corrupt officers dont have a "C" tattooed on their forehead. In an army as big as Thyatis', weeding out the inept is no small task. Not to mention the fact that assuming Valerias with her Intelligence of 100 odd knows what she is doing, she will ensure that all those in a position to clean the place up will be in turn corrupt. After a while a somewhat harsher magistrate does the job anyway - war. ><< Well, I've seen stuff in Dragon like Teleport any Object, a level 3 spell, > which duplicates a level 7 spell (Vanish) except better. I dont have much > respect for Dragon either I'm afraid :)>> > >you did note the "gungho" designation i gave the Dragon kits. Dragon is not >so bad. you have to remember that much of its material comes from outside the >TSR staff. so the material is only as good as the contributor....usually a >private gamer with their own ideas about a setting, rules, and what they want >in a campaign. to me Dragon's key offering is ideas; for campaign setting and >rules modifications and variants. not all are good, not all are bad. the >Dragon kits were just to show that they were possible and even recognized to >a degree by TSR. ultimately the material is up to the DM Dragon is not so bad, but I consider it merely to be an interesting suggestion, and after being burned on it before, I always treat Dragonmags with extreme caution. Of course the material is up to the DM, but going by that route you spread the debate to an arms race Realms style - I can just imagine "Wizards and Rogues of Alphatia" versus "Fighters and Priests of Thyatis" even now. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:46:49 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Iulius Sergius Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > Some time ago > I posted part 2 of Iulius Scaevola's life, > but as no response was given, > I don't know if it ever arrived. > If it didn't, tell me and I will send it again > If it did WELL TELL ME SOMETHING!!! Don't worry! It arrived and was appreciated. It was just the usual load of work (like having my last exam tomorrow...) that prevented me to read it earlier. Salve atque vale, -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:59:15 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Atraughin culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alexander Osias wrote: > > 1. They excel individually and in small groups, but anything larger and > they begin CLASHING due to their innately independent nature and feeling > that each one knows EXACTLY what to do - which differs from everyone else's > opinion. > > 2. They are extremely regionalistic and spend most time warring. > Much like we Italians since the fall of the Roman Empire... -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Magister Mystaros wrote: > > Hmmm... this would not be a problem if the Highforge community is connected > to a large, widespread "Underdark" that extends into, say, Darokin or even > Thyatis... heck, the SE tunnels pass all the way to Darokin City, why can't > the Highforge Delves reach all the way to Selenica, Thyatis, Ylaruam or even > beyond? > Since gnomes are found in B4 The Lost City, I suppose they must have some way to reach the caverns under the Alasiyan desert. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:15:45 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jdaly Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Poor indians blah blah blah bad Americans blah blah blah. At 05:52 PM 01/24/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Well. Personally. I choose not to play them for that very reason. I have done some research on Native Americans, but I had to stop because it was very emotionally involved process. This country has commited so many atrocities against these people, and has not really documented the truth in the history books that socialize young children today. > >I thought of some adventures, but I think that most players could not handle playing a role which might be considered "savage" by our cultural values. Some people I talked to could not even handle understanding that "Traldarans" are indeed not content with the matters on hand by the Thyatian invaders, even though Stefan might be in a more positive light than other Thyatians. > >For anyone wanting to deal with this aspect, I just ask that they do indeed study up on Native/Meso-Americans. One good book is "Native American Testimony" which is from commentary of the native people themselves. > >ciao, > Joaquin > >-- > >On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 00:01:33 IronWolf wrote: >>Mischa E Gelman wrote: >>> >>> I wonder what kinds of adventures folks have run for Atruaghin chars in >>> their home land? Intertribal rivalries are obvious, but there doesn't >>> seem much material to work with from my limited imagination perspective. >>> The lack of adventures in the GAZ itself also proves limiting, as those >>> samples usually give me better ideas for the feel of the land and what >>> would work there. So, what all have you done with this land? >> >>Ugh... not much, myself. >> >>I don't know about anyone else from the U.S., but myself I would not feel >>comfortable playing a character from the Atruaghin clans because I would fear >>maligning Native Americans with cheesy cliche behavior. I know very few people >>who wouldn't feel self-concious, and those that could get over it would probably >>be viewed with disdain by his fellow players. >> >>If I was a munchkin hack-n-slasher who thought roleplaying was something >>psychologists did, I'd probably avoid them due to their distain for metal >>weapons, low 'kill' factor and all that. And anyone who played one anyway would >>also be viewed likely as maligning Native Americans, portraying them as savages. >> >>Sheesh, just talking about it makes me feel guilty. >> >>IronWolf >> >>"It's Specularum, damn it!" >> >>******************************************************************** >>The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >>Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >>To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > > >HotBot - Search smarter. >http://www.hotbot.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:21:45 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: rebuilt Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, on the thread about Immortals rebuilding Alphatia in the HW after its destruction... well, I got to that point IMC; it's quite impossible in terms of PPs, and the presence of submerged ruins and surviving mountains and islands denies the alternative of transporting it wholesale thanks to a "time loop", elemental loop or anything. The explanation I gave followed this facts: 1. misfunction of the Doomsday weapon caused the destruction of the Continent. 2. the Weapon drew its power from the Nucleus of the Spheres, hence, Radiance 3. Alphatia broke apart due to a burst of radiance focused on the whole continent 4. just at the time of Alphatia being destroyed, or during it (I assume that it was not instantaneous, there were cataclisms, according to WotI, not sheer obliteration), either a PC group or the Old One red-directs the Nucleus to draw its power from the Sphere of Entropy. 5. Using kinda of "Sphere-Physics", the Immortals could well use the Nucleus and its Radiance bombing on Alphatia as PPs to rebuild it... 6. And, as destruction builds up Entropy, the same destruction of the continent would give more "radiance PPs" which could be used by Immortals: remember, Ixion was at the Chamber of the Nucleus at the time of the cataclysm, and he's a Hierarch of Energy... after the Nucleus being re-directed, he could well add 1 +1 and tap the power of Radiance himself, calling Alphatia-interested Immortals (as well as the Concil of the Hollow World)... no big deal, there were one or two in the vicinity (Benekander and Korotiku) and, doubtlessly, the Council of Intrusion would have felt the presence in the Prime of both Rad, Ixion and the Old One. They could muster the energy of the Nucleus and use it as PPs without even depleting their personal resources. 7. Wow, you can object that world-creation asks for PermanentPower, not TP... well, I think that the Nucleus, as an artifact, and probably the most powerful artifact in Mystara, could provide Permanent Power to Immortals... we have rules (GAZ3) about its powers in the hands of simple mortals, what if it is a Immortal the one who draws its resources? (take Rad as an example) Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:38:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] A Couple of Wierd Questions] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Aaron E Nowack wrote: >(This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > >1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave >by? > >a. Baron Norlan >b. Bargle the Infamous >c. Barrimor >d. Stefan Karameikos >e. other- please state E. Hugorth the Misanthrope, King of Blackheart. He'd probably cut my thro= at. Or more likely he'd use the razor to amputate my limbs and perform makesh= ift surgery on me... >2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into >Hule. Which would you pick? > >a. Battle Axe >b. Long Sword >c. Alphatian Man-o-War >d. Nuclear Missile None of the above. He probably sabotaged all of the offered weapons. Besi= des, after he got done grafting body parts from other monsters onto what was l= eft of my body, I might actually have some cool claws or breath weapons that = I'd rather use. >3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you ai= m >it and why? I'd probably aim it at Hule, and save myself the trouble of having to act= ually visit there. Isn't that the point of getting the weapon in the first plac= e? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:04:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jenn Subject: Re: Web address for Tome of Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The address for Tome of Mystara is http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ or, http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081/index.html Jennifer Favia Guerra for Tome of Mystara --- John R Hofmann wrote: > Hi, guys. Could anyone tell me the web address for > the Tome of Mystara? > > I thought it was www.geocities.com/mystaratome > > but GeoCities was giving me a 403 error (which is an > access denied > error). I tried /tomeofmystara, too, but I didn't > think that one was it, > either. > > Thanks in advance, > > John Hofmann > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE > software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to > LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:19:54 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: Elves? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Elves rule man!!! I'm sure that Darth Darknerd has made a list, because he's my GM and all, but if not, i know of the Vyalia, the Calarii, the Selenii, the Linarii and the Dinarii (splinters of the Calarii) but these are unofficial of course Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:34:52 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:07:04 -0000 Paul Benfield writes: > Hi all, > Recently on the list there was a debate about how fantasy has > changed, > one thing I've noticed is the apparent backlash against elves. For > some > reason > lot's of TSR and other fantasy settings have elves on the decline, > almost > extinct or > generally miserable (e.g. Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, > the blood > elves in Earthdawn). > > What have elves done to deserve this treatment? Well, in my thingie, elves aren;'t anywhere close to extinct, they just ain't in the KW anymore. And the trend was inherited from Tolkein. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:47:42 -0500 Reply-To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Aengmor > >On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:07:04 -0000 Paul Benfield > writes: >> What have elves done to deserve this treatment? Well, it's not like that IMC. Elves are rarer by virtue of their having a lower natural increase rate, but they certainly are not in decline. I'm a bit of an elf fan myself, and I've gone to the extent of making elvish the "language of culture and diplomacy", due to the (IMO) multitude of subtleties within it, and its descriptive capacity. The elite in nations such as Darokin, Glantri, and certain regions of Thyatis ensure their children are well-versed in elvish (of the dialect spoken by the nearest clan), due to the social poise and brownie points it provides. All IMC, of course. Thyatian is, IMC, the language of business and science, as well as serving as the "common tongue". Milenian (provided the less debased dialects of it spread from Davania) could be the language of mathematics and rhetoric. Perhaps all of these could form part of an "educated Mystaran's" upbringing... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:00:50 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Elves? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Calarii - honorable spartan-like elves Dinarii (non-canon) - warrior elves studying the forbidden lost elven arts. Feel elves are corrupted by humans. Linarii (non-canon) - pacifist elves that have the power of mind and live in Haven. They follow the path of logic. Selenii (non-canon) - mythological elves said to live in our very dreams. (They serve as the secret intelligence for the Seelie) Vyalia - philosophical elves serve as protectors of life and nature. The Vishainii warriors and foresters travel the world combating forces that would destroy or corrupt nature. Believe in not attacking, but only in defending. -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:19:54 Meltheim Shadowstalker wrote: >Elves rule man!!! I'm sure that Darth Darknerd has made a list, because he's > my GM and all, but if not, i know of the Vyalia, the Calarii, the Selenii, >the Linarii and the Dinarii (splinters of the Calarii) but these are >unofficial of course > >Meltheim the Shadowstalker > Infiltrator to the Immortals > Devotee of Fate > Eyes of the Starwatcher > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:05:19 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: A Couple of Wierd Questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron E Nowack ha scritto: > (This is inspired by a wierd poll, on another list) > > 1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > by? > > a. Baron Norlan > b. Bargle the Infamous > c. Barrimor > d. Stefan Karameikos > e. other- please state > e. Wulf von Klagendorf. He will never harm me, for sure! > > 2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > Hule. Which would you pick? > > a. Battle Axe > b. Long Sword > c. Alphatian Man-o-War > d. Nuclear Missile I don't know what a nuk...nuc...nucli...what the hell is that thing? So I suppose Long Sword... > 3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you aim > it and why? > Well, I don't know what it is, but if it does any harm...ON SUNDSVALL Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:07:18 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And what an elightened valuable and intelligent contribution... -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:15:45 jdaly wrote: >Poor indians blah blah blah bad Americans blah blah blah. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:14:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Iulius Sergius Scaevola MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Agathokles ha scritto: > Caroletti wrote: > > > > Some time ago > > I posted part 2 of Iulius Scaevola's life, > > but as no response was given, > > I don't know if it ever arrived. > > If it didn't, tell me and I will send it again > > If it did WELL TELL ME SOMETHING!!! > > Don't worry! It arrived and was appreciated. It was just the usual load > of work (like having my last exam tomorrow...) that prevented me to read > it earlier. > > Salve atque vale, > -- > > Giampaolo Agosta last exam tomorrow...sob...I have just finished my first two... Iulius S. Scaevola ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:14:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent reference. I have that module but never read it. Thank you. -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 21:00:57 Agathokles wrote: >Magister Mystaros wrote: >> >> Hmmm... this would not be a problem if the Highforge community is connected >> to a large, widespread "Underdark" that extends into, say, Darokin or even >> Thyatis... heck, the SE tunnels pass all the way to Darokin City, why can't >> the Highforge Delves reach all the way to Selenica, Thyatis, Ylaruam or even >> beyond? >> > >Since gnomes are found in B4 The Lost City, I suppose they must have >some way to reach the caverns under the Alasiyan desert. >-- > > > Giampaolo Agosta > > >agathokles@libero.it >http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:20:52 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: rebuilt Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andr�s Piquer Otero ha scritto: > Hi, > > on the thread about Immortals rebuilding Alphatia in the HW after its > destruction... well, I got to that point IMC; it's quite impossible in > terms of PPs, and the presence of submerged ruins and surviving mountains > and islands denies the alternative of transporting it wholesale thanks to a > "time loop", elemental loop or anything. > The explanation I gave followed this facts: Ok, it could be considered an interesting option. But the real thing is that we are trying to give an explanation to a thing that has just one: first they wanted to get off Alphatia & Thyatis because they had been portrayed too powerfully, then they changed their mind, and thus had to give more power to Alphatia (because it was in the HW and was less 'influential'). If they wanted Alphatia destroyed, they should not have built it in the HW. And with this I DON'T MEAN Alphatia should have been destroyed...just that I can't eat my dinner and then decide I will give it to my brother. I would just create a mess, with the result of disgusting my brother and having to clean up after. (Ugh. Disgusting. I work too much on the Outer Beings) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:19:34 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. There are some excellent ideas in that article. Either way, the gnomes in HighForge are rather protective. They feel that they are the last few enclaves of gnomes that exist in Mystara, but their population is quite significant. As far as Blackmoor, there could have been earlier gnomes. The Dwarves themselves believe they were creasted by Kagyar, but this is not necessarily true. -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:05:41 Hevard wrote: >On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Darth Darknerd wrote: > >> This is an idea I found for HighForge. > >Great Idea! > >Howabout combining this idea with the my idea about the Northland Gnomes >of Underyord? Nicolas Hudson wrote an article on these that you can find >on www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mystara.html > >Basically the idea is that the gnomes of the northern reaches weren't >exterminated, they only went deep underground. The Highforge gnomes >probably still dont know about them, but will make contact when the gnomes >of Highforge travel far enough into the Northern Reaches. > >Someone mentioned Blackmoor gnomes, but Gnomes were created long after the >destruction of that civilization. However, Garal, could easily have placed >gnomes among surviving Blackmoor Dwarves. > >Hevard > >Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:22:30 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Gnomes: Under the Sea Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well. Get's those things on online!!! ^__^ -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:13:29 `ilo ygm wrote: >Well Darth, this idea is not only existant but actually quite developed. >I have devoted part of my website to the seagnome denizens of Deepreach. Most of my work is not yet online (most of it is not even on paper :-( >But you can find a lot about gnomes in my site (see the Boldavian Prince below). >I would recommend you read the History part, there is a timeline there developed by myself and Marco Dalmonte. >In Marco's page you can find the same timeline in a more general-gnomish content. >Also, the gnomes of Davania are developed by a lot of people mainly (and I could be mistaken here sorry) Ethan, and Geoff Gander. >You can also find a beutiful article cold DMs guide to Davania, by the Davania Team. More about Earthshaker gnomes there. > >Hope you will find your trip through non-canon gnomish societies to your liking, >Morphail (Ohad Shaham) >"and crawling on the planet's face, some insects called the human race. >Lost in time, lost in space and meaning..." >Last words from the Rocky Horror Picture Show >Visit the dark prince of Boldavia at- http://www.geocities.com/morphail_o/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:30:42 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! OK. Just kidding. I think that all info coudl be pulled from everyone's ideas starting with Highforge. I only whish we had good map drawers. At the very least, I wish that guy who made maps from Illustrator, so that I could make subterrean maps in excellent quality for everyone to use. The other problem is the language. What will the language be like and will there be different languages for gnomes. -- On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 22:12:52 Magister Mystaros wrote: >In a message dated 1/25/00 10:06:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: > ><< Those gnomes would need to do something to limit the number of dwarves > who leave Highforge to go adventuring, lest the Karameikans notice that there > are far more dwarvish adventurers than should be possible from a population > of only a thousand or so. Perhaps they send them to Rockhome first? > > The gnomes themselves have a similar problem, with a slightly larger > official population but no real alternative locations that the excess gnomish > adventurers can claim to be from. > >> > >Hmmm... this would not be a problem if the Highforge community is connected >to a large, widespread "Underdark" that extends into, say, Darokin or even >Thyatis... heck, the SE tunnels pass all the way to Darokin City, why can't >the Highforge Delves reach all the way to Selenica, Thyatis, Ylaruam or even >beyond? > >This is a very interesting idea... especially since the demihumans don't >really have an "underdark" equivalent to that of the SE or the Humanoids of >the Broken Lands... hmmmm... the greatest secret of the Known World... >perhaps a Gnomish Net Gazetteer is in order... sort of the "Gnomes of Zurich" >kind of thing (ala Illuminati)... the Gnomes are EVERYWHERE... > >Magister Mystaros >Exalted Mage of Mystara >Chronicler of Pandius >All-around Party Animal > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:45:25 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Enemy of the Gnomes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I don't imagine that gnomes have a large and huge vast empire. They have unique pockets spread out around Mystara. Some areas are huge, while others are small. This is done in part to hide from their predator and enemy: Dark Elves. The Dark Elves of Mystara are a not known exist, and even by elves, they are only legendary. These elves explore the mystery of mind. They are all naturally pscionic. They often infiltrate societies and study humans and other creatures. Later they create habitats below the Earth and abduct entire populations of humans or other creatures, implant memories, and then experiment. The subjects of the experiments never know the difference. Life always appears to be normal, then their roles change, memories are change, and life goes on. The Dark Elves live in a bizarre underdark world. They travel through secret magical doorways that are only activated through a mental trigger. They can appear invisible or as another person through the power of the mind. However, the Dark Elves have found that gnomes somehow are immune to their mental abilities, much like dwarves are resistant to magic. The Dark Elves fear that gnomes can be used against them and have sought to destroy all of them. [NOTE: The dark elves are in no way to be confused with Drow or other RPG worlds. They are completely unique in this light for Mystara. They are referenced in GAZ11: Northern Reaches] HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:48:55 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Introducing- Arrh! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) Hahaha! This is very good. Do you think some people might mix him up with Ar of Floating Ar fame? Kit Navarro ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jdaly Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The point being to keep your "blame America" attitude off this list. We can discuss indians, communists, real world demons and dragons, religious fundamentalists and a whole host of inflammatory, non-Mystaran topics offline. But they really don't belong here. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Darth Darknerd To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adventures? > And what an elightened valuable and intelligent contribution... > > -- > > On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:15:45 jdaly wrote: > >Poor indians blah blah blah bad Americans blah blah blah. > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:25:21 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Darokin/Glantri/Sind Map Request MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be no greater honor to craft such a piece of cartography for you, dear lady. *bows* However, I do not think I could match my good collegue Thibalt's timeframe of a week, thus I must respectfully remove myself from this challenge. IronWolf "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" wrote: > > Hey there Mystarans. > > This message is primarily for Thib, but anyone else who likes to do maps is > welcome to help me out. ;-) > > I'd really like to see a map showing the relationship between the north-west > region of Darokin, the Broken Lands, Glantri and the northern Region of Sind. > I'd like to see the eastern edge of the map starting just to the east of > Corunglain and the western edge going as far as to the northern border between > Sind and the desert. I'd like to see the northern edge be high enough to > cover most if not all of Glantri, and the southern edge must be low enough > that the map includes all of Lake Amsorak (and it would be nice if it also > included Darokin City). > > The region I've indicated probably also touches on part of the Atruaghin > Plateau, but whether it gets specifically included in the map isn't as > important as the areas I've actually mentioned. A smaller scale would be good > -- 8 miles to the hex preferably. > > Thanks, in advance, to anyone who takes up my challenge. :-) > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs > strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ > <------------------------------------------------------------------> > God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. > Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" > And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:29:22 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd have to agree that WotI did sort of 'jump on the bandwagon' with that one. In it's defense, however, the Known World setting had been lying fallow for quite a long time before it's release, so something new was nice. At the least we don't have the Immortals now dependent upon worshippers for their power. *rolls eyes* Gosh, just what the Realms needed... before they just interfered out of whimsy, now they HAVE to interfere consistently and constantly, and encourage fanaticism and zealots. Yay. IronWolf "Live with what knowledge and wisdom you can gain from life, and leave the unknown to infinity. Oh, and it's Specularum, damn it!" Paul Benfield wrote: > > Hi all, > I've read a great many emails about the WOTI now and can only agree with > those > writers who critisize this product. It has IMHO wrecked several areas of the > KW. > > Why the writer felt it necessary to smash comets into the planet, use the > equivalent of a > nuclear device to blast Alphatia of the surface and generally inflict a > badly scripted and > very illogical war is beyond me. I know reasons have been given for many > aspects of the > war, and why it was written like that but still it is canon and has shaped > the development of > the world in such a way that I am left to completely diverge my ideas from > *canon* if I want > to keep key realms in my campaign in existance - i.e Alphatia and Alfheim. > > All I really wanted to say was that Mystara seems to be yet another victim > of the apparent > policy of 'shaking up' worlds that afflicted many TSR settings around that > time (Greyhawk > was devestated much to a friends displeasure; and the Realms endured the > Time of Troubles > with some very dodgy goings-on). Although change is healthy to a settings > these massive > upheavals leave players feeling that their characters are not so 'heroic' > anymore as they cannot > do anything for their homelands that would make the slightest bit of > difference... > > > Sorry if that was a long moan. > > Paul Benfield > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Caroletti > To: > Sent: 25 January 2000 08:27 > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Thyatis, Alfheim, and WotI > > > James Ruhland ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > > First there is Alfheim. At first glance it would seem that Ilsundal > > > should > > > > have been able to foil Rafiel's plans for a shadow elf conquest of > that > > > > nation -- after all, he was well aware of their past history and > recent > > > plots > > > > against the Alfheim elves. > > > > Only when it was too late did he realize the mistake he had made in > > > > disregarding events in Alfheim. > > > > > > > > Hyper Snipping > > > > > > > Snip snip snip > > > > > > > > Vanya put the two areas where she is revered most strongly on the line > for > > > Rad? Why risk either or both of them getting cremed on his behalf > > > (remember, IMO the strongest Anti-Glantri strategy for Alphatia is > through > > > Heldann, not Thyatis, in conjunction with the Ethengar as allies. But > even > > > so:) Why get so pissed off and Curse Thincol when he takes steps to save > > > Thyatis? Vanya had everything to lose their and nothing to gain by > > > prolonging the struggle on Rad's/Glantri's behalf - she probably has > more > > > followers in Thyatis than in any other Mystaran nation, and since her > > > followers tend to be militant types, they were the ones getting killed. > She > > > was sacrificing her base of worshipers, for no good reason. WotI > certainly > > > provides no real rationale for her fanatical devotion to Rad's cause. > One > > > can see, just barely, why Korotiku might support Rad (but his followers, > in > > > the Pearl Islands, bail on the whole project early on), and - again, > with > > > slightly but not much more rationale - why Rafiel, Ka, and Rathanos > might > > > (though Eiryndul is inexplicable, as is Asterius. Eiryndul has as much > to > > > lose from the abuse of the Radiance as Ilsundal does. Asterius has > > > absolutely no dog in this fight whatsoever - they join Vanya in the "I > > > gotta scratch my head as to what is going on here" category.) In some > > > cases, no attempt is even made to try and explain why these Immortals > > > support Rad, much less why they do so with such fierce fanaticism in > open > > > disregard of their own interests (getting their own followers > slaughtered > > > on Rad's behalf in exchange for nothing seems like the fast track to > > > Immortal Fadeout). > > > If anyone's come up with good explainations, I'd love to see 'em > posted, > > > because I can find no rime or reason; especially no rime or reason for > > > Immortals "abandoning" Thyatis (a hotbed of theological study and > > > veneration of the Immortals, if we're to believe DotE) in favor of > Alphatia > > > (a hotbed of agnosticism and apathetic-at-best devotion to the > Immortals, > > > where the only guys who show any interest at all seem to be dudes who > are > > > only in it for the spells they can get or for the ticket to Immortality > of > > > > I think WotI's adventure book is interesting, but it's not well developed. > > It could have been done a million times better. Ilsundal, as you said, > results > > as a complete idiot; and no reason can be given for so many Immortals > > sponsoring Rad. If I had written the story, Rad would not have had 3 > allies, > > and thus the thing ends. No Wrath of the Immortals. BUT, we can still > > have a major war going on with similar results without involving them...I > > really think that while a poor sod (was it Aaron Allston?) was preparing > > a major war in Mystara to create havoc and confusion, TSR went to him > > and said: "Hey, Aaron, you gonna put in your adventure a lot of Immortals. > > Why? Because you must make an Immortal Rules Book revising the ol' > > Gold Box for the Rules Cyclopedia." And it seems > > he didn't know how to do. > > > > I think I will soon re-write all the motivations of the WotI, stripping it > of, > > I hope, most of the logical incongruences. Then I'll post it > > > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > > Captain of the XXth Cohort > > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:33:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: [ADMIN] End the American Indian Thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay folks, I think we can go ahead and nip the indian discussion in the bud right now, since it looks like a flamewar in the making. Please end all discussion on this topic. Thanks. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:14:14 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-26 6:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << [NOTE: The dark elves are in no way to be confused with Drow or other RPG worlds. They are completely unique in this light for Mystara. They are referenced in GAZ11: Northern Reaches] >> That would be Gaz 7, actually. There is also a mention in Gaz 10: Orcs of Thar of Atzanteotl being a "dark elf", although most later sources refer to him as a shadow elf. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:52:23 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Houses of Darokin: Linton House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the second in a series of writeups detailing the nine Great Houses of Darokin. Up this time, the second greatest: Linton House. A Brief History of Linton House Linton House has always been second to Mauntea. It was founded in 715 AC, just a year after Mauntea House. Its achievements were never as great as Mauntea's, its fortunes were always just a few daros poorer. Needless to say, this resulted in a great deal of anger on Linton House's part. This rage was the cause of a series of particuarly bloody wars between the Athenos-Tenobar alliance and Darokin City called the Elstrich Wars for the region in which they were fought. Linton, with its strong position on Darokin's only coast, was able to easily become the largest sea trader in Darokin. It opperated wherever Mauntea did, always with a shade less success. It has clashed with the Minrothad Guilds often, and both groups often hired, and still do hire, privateers to attack each others fleets. At one point, Linton House and the Guilds were actually openly at war with each other over Ierendi trading rights! After Charles Mauntea's death, Linton House was manipulated by Corun House into threatening withdrawl from the Great Merger, precipitating Lydia Mauntea's takeover. Since then Linton has been an avowed enemy of both Houses. During this, Athenos was the only city to offer armed resistance to the takeover, doomed though it proved to be. This caused the crackdowns in Athenos to be particuarly bloody, including the execution of all the city's leaders. The greatest irritant to Linton House is that there has never been a Linton Chancellor. Mauntea, Corun, Hallonica, and even the tiny Toney House have had Chancellors, but the second largest merchant family has never had one of itss own in charge. It is suspected that Lucius Linton may have been responsible for the premature death of the Toney Chancellor, Corwyn Hoff... Linton House pretends to be content with the status quo and disinterested in politics, but it is a well-known secret that such are lies. Linton House Assets Linton House's main asset is its merchant fleet of 20 ships. In addition it maintains extensive forgein operations in the Five Shires, Ierendi, Ostland, Sind, Soderfjord , Thyatis, and Vestland. As well, it occasionally sends ships to Slagovich. It also secretly holds the contracts for several bands of Ierendian pirates, which it holds in reserve for its next conflict with the Guilds. Also, Linton House has several operatives in the Guild power structure, a favor which is reciprocated. Linton House Relations Al-Azrad: Neutral verging on hostile. Despite Al-Azrad's long history in Darokin, Linton still considers them forgeiners. This is exaberated by a mutual personal dislike between Luicius and Eshram Al-Azrad. Corun House: Hostile. Corun is not only an ally of Mauntea, but has had a Chancellor while Linton has not! Franich House: Neutral verging on hostile. Linton House dislikes the speed with which Franich has become a Great House, and its friendship with Mauntea dosen't help either. Hallonica: Neutral verging on Hostile. Not only has Hallonica had a Chancellor, but it is allied with the disgusting Al-Azrad! Mauntea: Extremly Hostile. Nearly every move Linton House makes is designed to somehow hurt Mauntea House. Pennydown House: Friendly. Pennydown has informed Linton that Mauntea has been blackmailing it into supporting Mauntea. Linton hopes to use this to bring down Mauntea. Toney House: Neutral verging on Friendly. Though, Toney has had a Chancellor, since the death of Hoff it has done nothing to irritate Linton. Umbarth House: Friendly verging on neutral. The two Houses have compatible political goals, though trade issues in Sind and Slagovich are a wedge between the houses. linton has also noticed returning Umbarth caravans that claim to be from Slagovich that never arrived there and carry goods of a type not available in the city-state... Linton House Personalities Lucius Linton (0/23rd level normal man/merchant, N) Lucius Linton is a man of average hight (a few inches shorter than Corwyn Mauntea, of course). He sems to constantly strive for every inch of height. He has gray hair and brown eyes, and wears a beard. Lucius is obsessed with destroying Mauntea House, to the exclusion of all else. However, to those who support him, he is a loyal friend. He loves his family, but is quick to anger against them. NOTE: According to the MA future, Lucinius will be assasinated by an agent of the Guilds in 1016 AC. Ansa Linton (0-level normal woman, LN) Ansa is Lucius's wife. She is a short woman, with gray hair and blue eyes. She is very frail, and is constantly catching rare dieseases which require equally rare and expensive cures. NOTE: Ansa will die of natural causes in 1002 AC. Astinius Linton (0/3rd level normal man/merchant, NE) Astinius, the eldest child, is a cruel man. He looks like a younger version of his father, and shares his obsession with Mauntea House. His personality is much like his father's, but without the redeeming features. Lucius recognizes the disaster the Astinius will be as head of Linton House, and plans to pass over him as successor in his will. NOTE: According to the MA future, Astinius will be assasinated by an agent of the Guilds in 1016 AC. Calen Linton (3rd/8th level fighter/merchant, LN) Calen, the second child, takes after his mother, being short, brown-haired, and blue-eyed. He much calmer than any of his siblings, and has been chosen as heir apparent by his father. He still shares the hatred of Mauntea House, though not so violently as his elder brother. NOTE: According to the MA future, Calen will be assasinated by an agent of the Guilds in 1016 AC. Lyasa Linton (5th level fighter, NG) Lyasa, the third child and only daughter, loathed most of her family. She ran away from home and joined the army, for which she was disowned. Her father has forgiven her, but is too proud to reverse his decision. However, Lucinius has arranged that Lyasa will be given only safe duties, for which she hates her father even more. NOTE: Lyasa will die defending Darokin City from the Master in 1006 AC, barring PC intervention. Corwyn Linton (7th/16th level fighter/merchant, N) As a child, Corwyn, the youngest child, idolized his sister, and left home shortly after she did. His father, regretting his mistake with Lyasa, did not punish him, but gave him a position guarding House Linton's caravans. Since then, Corwyn has become an accomplished fighter and merchant, and only his lack of hatred for Mauntea House prevents him from being named heir. For more information, see Gaz11. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:06:03 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Possibly akin to the strange blindness Stefan Karameikos exhibited despite the much vaunted spy network of his wife... trying to reconcile political correctness with plausibility. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Theisen To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 1:18 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] [[MYSTARA] Atraughin culture] I'd normally agree that this was probably a big part of it, but unforunately, Gaz14 would have us believe that, since the coming of Atruaghin, all the clans (with the exception of the Tiger clan) are living in peace and harmony amongst themselves, and singing "I love you, you love me, we're a happy fam-i-ly..." all day long. I think Atruaghin's symbol is a big, purple dinosaur, isn't it?. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:15:18 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Much better! Myself, I don't really believe that it's a blame America deal, since America has been one of those countries also troubled by infighting and wildly varied opinion. (as with the Italians & the Philippines) Perhaps then, the issue of why the Atrahuagin clans have not prospered might be also because: 1. Their more "forward thinking" youth keep emigrating to places where they're appreciated. 2. They've got sucky leaders. ----- Original Message ----- From: jdaly To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 8:14 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adventures? : The point being to keep your "blame America" attitude off this list. We can : discuss indians, communists, real world demons and dragons, religious : fundamentalists and a whole host of inflammatory, non-Mystaran topics : offline. But they really don't belong here. : : That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:56:20 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Tactics v Magic: Who was Who's Allies and to what Purpose in WotI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-26 2:57:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << As far as the strategic elements of the "main event" go, however, you're just wrong: Thyatis isn't given the HKs & Glantri as allies to even out a missmatch. What happens is that old Civil War practice (and other wars as well in other nations, also) - when you're drafted, if you don't want to go, you find a substitute. Glantri gets Thyatis to serve as its substitute. The rest is effectively Alph vs Thy, with Thyatis hamstrung and handicapped in many ways, in order to achieve the plot result (Alphatia gets removed irregardless of how Thyatis performs in the war, so they don't have to suffer under the same disabilities for their result to occur - but Thyatis has to perform badly so that the aspect of the plot wherin it gets creamed can be fullfilled). >> The impression I got from WotI was that Thyatis actually did pretty well against Alphatia -- even for them Alphatia was too powerful to take on in the long run. But it took Alphatia YEARS to defeat Thyatis, whereas against any other nation the war would have been over within days after the Alphatian troops reached the enemy country. Furthermore, despite the tremendous advantage in numbers and resources that Alphatia had over Thyatis, this was the first war between the two major empires that the Alphatians won. In every previous war the Thyatians were able to win by some glorious deeds of individual heroism or treachery (depending largely on who is telling the tale), but in WotI their luck finally ran out. Or did it? After all, while they did suffer the humiliation of military defeat, a fairly short time elapsed before the end of the war as well as of mainland Alphatia. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:56:26 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: rebuilt Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-26 4:22:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES writes: << on the thread about Immortals rebuilding Alphatia in the HW after its destruction... well, I got to that point IMC; it's quite impossible in terms of PPs, and the presence of submerged ruins and surviving mountains and islands denies the alternative of transporting it wholesale thanks to a "time loop", elemental loop or anything. >> Another possibility to consider is that the PP costs in WotI are for creating original people, places, and things, not for making copies -- maybe the latter process is considerably cheaper in terms of PPs. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:25:31 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Aengmor In-Reply-To: <012c01bf6839$ff8fc520$0301a8c0@intapeople.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Paul Benfield wrote: > Hi all, > Recently on the list there was a debate about how fantasy has changed, > one thing I've noticed is the apparent backlash against elves. For some > reason > lot's of TSR and other fantasy settings have elves on the decline, almost > extinct or > generally miserable (e.g. Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, the blood > elves in Earthdawn). > It's traditional for Elves to decline, because Tolkein, who invented the modern fantasy Elf had them in decline in his works. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:26:11 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-26 12:12:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: << What I think would result is a bunch of conflicting orders from a bunch of conflicting immortals, rendering Thyatis virtually disfunctional during the war. They would defend their territory, and probably attack weakened Alphatian ports, but I doubt that they would directly side with Glantri. >> But remember that Vanya's mortal identity was the mistress of the emperor Thincol, so she did have enough clout on her own to force Thyatis into a war that hardly any of them would have wanted. But with all of the opposed Immortals who also had an interest in Thyatian affairs, there should have been quite a few attempted coups and assassinations intended to remove Thincol and thus Vanya's influence over Thyatian foreign policy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:44:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Gnomes: Under the Sea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darth wrote: > Well. Get's those things on online!!! ^__^ Snartans are coming along. PhD work comes first :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:23:36 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-26 4:07:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes: << Since gnomes are found in B4 The Lost City, I suppose they must have some way to reach the caverns under the Alasiyan desert. >> If we go by the gazetteers and other early sources, all of the following nations should have significant gnome communities in them: Karameikos (Highforge) Ylaruam Glantri (as per Gaz 4: Matou had to come from somewhere!) Ierendi (Honor Island) Alfheim (Alfheim Town) Alphatia (Stoutfellow) Serraine (flying over Known World) Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) In addition, gnomes working on the great shaft would have been stranded on the island of Aegos (Known World) and in Alphatian Neatharum (Hollow World). In the Northern Reaches they are specifically mentioned as being extinct. However, the location of Darokin suggests that it should have a few gnomes among its population. Of all of the above nations, Stoutfellow in Alphatia would have the largest gnome community (25% of 60,000 = 15,000 gnomes) followed by Karameikos (5000 gnomes), Serraine (1500 gnomes), and Oostdok (no population figure readily available, but clearly substantial). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:28:29 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Houses of Darokin: Linton House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pretty cool overall. I just have one nitpick, but it is actually a question I suppose (oh, and I have one meaningless comment as well): > > Linton House Assets > Linton House's main asset is its merchant fleet of 20 > ships. > This struck me as a rather small number, for Darokin's major (and only) seatrading House. I'd have thought they'd have more like 50 or even more ships. But I guess that begs the question of just how much sea trade people thinks go on, and how many ships are required. > NOTE: According to the MA future, Lucius will be assasinated by an > agent of the Guilds in 1016 AC. > He's an extremely old codger by that point, anyhow. One would figure that he'd either die of natural causes around then, or retire in favor of one of his (aging) heirs (though the Lucius described here doesn't seem like the type to step asside peacably), or his heirs (one or more) might get tired of waiting and. . .use some means to "hasten the inevitable but overlong delayed" passage of the old man to his final reward. Anyhow, to me, AC 1016 seems like as good a time as any for him to pass on, MA timeline or no. Anyhow, nice, very nice. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:06:10 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Houses of Darokin: Linton House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 23:28:29 -0600 James Ruhland writes: > Pretty cool overall. I just have one nitpick, but it is actually a > question > I suppose (oh, and I have one meaningless comment as well): Nice to know you like. :) > > > > Linton House Assets > > Linton House's main asset is its merchant fleet of > 20 > > ships. > > > This struck me as a rather small number, for Darokin's major (and > only) > seatrading House. I'd have thought they'd have more like 50 or even > more > ships. But I guess that begs the question of just how much sea trade > people > thinks go on, and how many ships are required. I'm not really sure how many ships would be needed... for those who want more that can be assumed to be the number owned outright, rather than hired or used. > > NOTE: According to the MA future, Lucius will be > assasinated by > an > > agent of the Guilds in 1016 AC. > > > He's an extremely old codger by that point, anyhow. One would figure > that > he'd either die of natural causes around then, or retire in favor of > one of > his (aging) heirs (though the Lucius described here doesn't seem > like the > type to step asside peacably), or his heirs (one or more) might get > tired > of waiting and. . .use some means to "hasten the inevitable but > overlong > delayed" passage of the old man to his final reward. Anyhow, to me, > AC 1016 > seems like as good a time as any for him to pass on, MA timeline or > no. Yep. But all the notes were basically designed to show how to fit it all into the MA timeline. (Since by that point the event assumes the ony surviving Lintons are Lucius and his three sons, I had to explain where the wife and daughter I wanted to do fit in.) > Anyhow, nice, very nice. Thanks. I think you'll _really_ like Pennydown once I get to it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 22:56:03 +0000 Reply-To: bing@iccom.com Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Aengmor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > It's traditional for Elves to decline, because Tolkein, who invented the > modern fantasy Elf had them in decline in his works. Not disagreeing, just adding some comments: In Tolkien, dwarves and hobbits declined too, but not so suddenly as elves. The elves just all boarded ships one day and sailed off into the sunset. Of course the reason they left is because Middle Earth is supposed to be an ancient version of the *real* earth, and obviously we don't see elves running around nowadays. So Tolkien really had no choice. However in a fantasy world we are not bound by history. I don't like it when fantasy worlds make all the elves go away, or make all the magic disappear. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:59:27 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: dragon articles from TSR site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hello all the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, though now I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if they aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara relevant ones. I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded copies of articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. thanks shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:01:04 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: WotI Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi People, I've personally always felt the WotI to be somewhat incoherant and improbable. For starters why would Eiryndul join a league against Alphatia, by far the largest group of supporters he has are the Shiye elves of Alphatia, and by joining the other side he would simply drive them into the arms of his rival Ilsundal. Then the names of the two Immortal alliances, I think they're switched around. First the Fellowship of the Star: Rad, as a glantrian wizard even though he's not Flaem, would pick something with fire Eiryndul certainly has no affiliations with stars (though Elves in general DO). Vanya FIRE obviously. Ka, this guy should have been neutral. Rafiel, well it IS City of the Stars, but other than that. Asterius NEUTRAL. Rathanos, the definition of a fire worshipper. Another thing he's the Thothian immortal-primo so he wouldn't so soon ally against Alphatia Korotiku no particular affiliation. And then the Ring of Fire: Ixion is affiliated with Energy not Fire (that's Rathanos), and I would sooner tack him to star than fire, despite his Phoenix symbol. Alphatia, hey People she's ALPHATIAN > AIR = ANTI-FIRE Ilsundal> elven> star (include Mealiden STARwatcher) Valerias, yeah she's fire alright, but moon- and star-light too. I also feel that a few more of the Alphatian immortals would have supported Ixion. Shouldn't Rad have been punished severely for interferring so much, up to the point of creating an anti-alphatian weapon (yeah it malfunctioned I know). Yet in the Curse of Amber he comes back and keeps on living he's dual-mortal-immortal-life. Hey even though you became an immortal by yourself, you must still see the wisdom of that little rule, and he's supposed to be such a genius. Than the events of WotI, I want more details, they're so sketchy. Did anyone flesh them out yet. I'd very much like to know, I'm a sucker for battles. Well I'm waiting for comment, let'm rip. Greetings, Michael III Mysteria ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:03:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They want you to buy the Dragon Articles CD-Rom now I think. I might still do that, as they are supposed to have all the Princess Ark articles on there including maps. Does anyone know? I'd like to get some info on Cestia and that area, is that in there? ----- Original Message ----- From: shawn stanley To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:59 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] dragon articles from TSR site > hello all > > the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, though now > I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if they > aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara relevant ones. > > I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded copies of > articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. > > thanks > > shawn stanley > http://dnd.starflung.com > > what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 06:06:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact, the Shadow Elves have their own gazeteer (I forget the number, 13 or 14 I think). I like your idea about shadow elves being psychic. This is easy to link up with the idea of radianced-based soul stones that are usable by the shaman of the race. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Darth Darknerd To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Enemy of the Gnomes > Personally, I don't imagine that gnomes have a large and huge vast empire. They have unique pockets spread out around Mystara. Some areas are huge, while others are small. > > This is done in part to hide from their predator and enemy: Dark Elves. > > The Dark Elves of Mystara are a not known exist, and even by elves, they are only legendary. These elves explore the mystery of mind. They are all naturally pscionic. They often infiltrate societies and study humans and other creatures. Later they create habitats below the Earth and abduct entire populations of humans or other creatures, implant memories, and then experiment. The subjects of the experiments never know the difference. Life always appears to be normal, then their roles change, memories are change, and life goes on. > > The Dark Elves live in a bizarre underdark world. They travel through secret magical doorways that are only activated through a mental trigger. They can appear invisible or as another person through the power of the mind. > > However, the Dark Elves have found that gnomes somehow are immune to their mental abilities, much like dwarves are resistant to magic. The Dark Elves fear that gnomes can be used against them and have sought to destroy all of them. > > [NOTE: The dark elves are in no way to be confused with Drow or other RPG worlds. They are completely unique in this light for Mystara. They are referenced in GAZ11: Northern Reaches] > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was just involved in a copyright discussion on rec.games.frp.dnd and I wound up contacting WotC about a few things. One of the things that I dug up in my research is that WotC very highly frowns upon people downloading things from the WotC website and making them available for download on their personal websites. It's OK for people to download things from the WotC page, but ONLY from the WotC page. The end result is that even if someone has the Dragon magazine articles, I would advise against trying to get them and put them on your website. In case anyone may find this interesting, a few of us on the newsgroup were interested in getting WotC to either: a) reprint the Basic/Expert ... series of rules (or the Cyclopedia) in some format b) allow private citizens to post electronic versions of those rules on their websites The reasons behind those thoughts were that WotC said that they would never reprint those rule sets as books. If you're still reading, WotC responded with an unqualified unreceptiveness towards these ideas. They listened to them, but responed with a quick 'NO'. This means that trying to make available any of their old material is Bad News, including things that they previously made available. If they take the Shadow Elves gazetteer down from their website, they'll make sure that no one else is making it available, either. In fact, they'll make sure of that now. John Hofmann On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:59:27 +1100 shawn stanley writes: > hello all > > the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, > though now > I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if > they > aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara > relevant ones. > > I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded > copies of > articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. > > thanks > > shawn stanley > http://dnd.starflung.com > > what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i > done for me > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:38:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In fact, the Shadow Elves have their own gazeteer (I forget the number, 13 > or 14 I think). I like > your idea about shadow elves being psychic. This is easy to link up with the > idea of radianced-based > soul stones that are usable by the shaman of the race. It's 13, 14 is Atruaghin Clans. But I disagree with the distinction between Drow and Shadow elves, I think that apart from their different skincolour (very dark vs. very pale) they're the same. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:50:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site In-Reply-To: <20000127.073210.-1920005.0.djemonk@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, John R Hofmann wrote: > This means that trying to make available any of their old material is Bad > News, including things that they previously made available. If they take > the Shadow Elves gazetteer down from their website, they'll make sure > that no one else is making it available, either. In fact, they'll make > sure of that now. Well, I wish them luck. I�ve had no problems finding TSR art on websites all over, and I dont see WotC spending enough resources on banning copyright stuff from the net to make it efficient. In any case, Mystara would probably not be the top priority thing to ban, since most people have forgotten about our world already.. Haavard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:59:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes In-Reply-To: <20000127124737.30029.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Michael III Mysteria wrote: > It's 13, 14 is Atruaghin Clans. > But I disagree with the distinction between Drow and Shadow elves, I think > that apart from their different skincolour (very dark vs. very pale) they're > the same. Drow are evil Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of personalities. Drow have innate magical abilities. Shadowelves do not. Drow dont exist on Mystara (officially anyway) Shadowelves do. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:56:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Drow are evil Mostly yes, and so are shadowelves > Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of personalities. Ditto Drow, see Drizzt, Qilue etc. in FR > Drow have innate magical abilities. > Shadowelves do not. Not as player characters, and those innate abilities come from a magical source, like Shadow Elven shaman soul stones. > Drow dont exist on Mystara (officially anyway) > Shadowelves do. That's because drow and shadow elves are just namecards > > H�vard > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:28:52 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Aengmor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In one sense there is a good reason for this. It is the same thing that allowed allied forces to defeat the higher-quality german forces in WWII. While a Panther tank could be counted on to destroy ten or more allied tanks before it went down, the allies were producing twenty tanks for each german tank. The elves, with their long lives are likely to have a much lower reproduction rate, and while an elf is at least as good a warrior as a human ina ddition to their magic, they can be overwhelmed by the humans who breed like rabbits by comparison. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Ranma Al'Thor To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Aengmor > On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Paul Benfield wrote: > > > Hi all, > > Recently on the list there was a debate about how fantasy has changed, > > one thing I've noticed is the apparent backlash against elves. For some > > reason > > lot's of TSR and other fantasy settings have elves on the decline, almost > > extinct or > > generally miserable (e.g. Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, the blood > > elves in Earthdawn). > > > It's traditional for Elves to decline, because Tolkein, who invented the > modern fantasy Elf had them in decline in his works. > > > > John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas > ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu > rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html > rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ > > Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are > HE and other types above 50 mm. > --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:05:00 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site + a small 'success' story Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It would have been nice to have resources available to people wishing to find the OOP and Never to Be Reprinted rules. I assume that it would be tough, if not nearly impossible, for WotC to find copyright material if someone posts it and just tells a few friends about i= t ... it's when it's publicized that WotC would find out about it. As for Mystara being forgotten, I thought that, too, until just very recently. I gradutated from college recently, and I hadn't played any RPGs since high-school. So, when I moved to where I am now for my first job, on= e of the first things I did upon relocating was looking for a gaming group to join. Well, I found one, and they said, "We're starting a RIFTS campaign."= =20 I thought, "I'm not super into RIFTS, but these guys are cool, I like them, and I really want to play SOMETHING." So, we've been playing RIFTS weekly for about a month now. Two nights ago, after the game, some of us starting talking about Dnd, and one guy said, "You know, I really like the old DnD rules ... the Basic set, the Expert Set ... you know those rules? And I really dig that Known World setting, too." I was nearly bowled over. We talked about Mystara for a bit, what we liked and some adventures we'd run there, and we're thinking of starting a campaign there. Mystara's gone, but not forgotten by any stretch of the imagination. John Hofmann ------Original Message------ Well, I wish them luck. I=B4ve had no problems finding TSR art on websites all over, and I dont see WotC spending enough resources on banning copyright stuff from the net to make it efficient. In any case, Mystara would probably not be the top priority thing to ban, since most people have forgotten about our world already.. Haavard ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:21:33 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:59:27 +1100 shawn stanley writes: > hello all > > the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, > though now > I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if > they > aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara > relevant ones. I think WotC took down all the backissues around the time the Dragon Archive was realeased. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:36:04 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:38:46 +0100 Michael III Mysteria writes: > > In fact, the Shadow Elves have their own gazeteer (I forget the > number, 13 > > or 14 I think). I like > > your idea about shadow elves being psychic. This is easy to link > up with > the > > idea of radianced-based > > soul stones that are usable by the shaman of the race. > > It's 13, 14 is Atruaghin Clans. > But I disagree with the distinction between Drow and Shadow elves, I > think > that apart from their different skincolour (very dark vs. very pale) > they're > the same. Umm... have you even read the Shadow Elves Gaz? Its available for download at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-DM.ZIP and http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SHDELF-player.ZIP. Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: 1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN. 2. Drow worship a goddess named Lolth. Shadow Elves worship the Immortal Rafiel. 3. Drow have a spider fetish. Shadow Elves do not. 4. Drow live in a quasi-magical Undersark. Shadow Elves live in a basically perfectly normal cavern system. 5. Drow have an unreasoning hatred for all non-drow. Shadow Elves have a well-justified hatred for the elves of Alfheim (not all surface elves, nor all surface beings). 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Shadow Elves are very intertwined with the Mystara setting. 7. Drow are inherently magical. Shadow Elves get their magic from external sources. 8. Drow are not intended as a PC race. Shadow Elves are. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:41:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron E Nowack > 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Tell that to a long time Greyhawk fan... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:59:08 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:41:38 -0700 Leroy Van Camp III writes: > Aaron E Nowack > > > > 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. > > Tell that to a long time Greyhawk fan... OK. Drow as they are now generally presented are intertwined with the FR setting (re: Drow of the Underdark, Drizzt, etc.). Happy, now? :) The point still stands anyway. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:56:15 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Drow are evil > Mostly yes, and so are shadowelves Not at all. Shadow Elves are the anti-drow. In fact, Shadow Elves are more "good" than normal Mystaran Elves. Remember, the SE's came with an offer of peace. The Alfeimers rejected rather rudely. > > Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of personalities. > Ditto Drow, see Drizzt, Qilue etc. in FR But they are all _EVIL_. > That's because drow and shadow elves are just namecards Completely beg to differ. Shadow Elves and Drow are not the same Elvish subrace. Drow worship Lolth. SE's venerate Rafiel. Drow are _EVIL_. Shadow Elves are misunderstood. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:04:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron E Nowack meandered fecklessly... > > > 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. > > > > Tell that to a long time Greyhawk fan... > > OK. Drow as they are now generally presented are intertwined with the FR > setting (re: Drow of the Underdark, Drizzt, etc.). > > Happy, now? :) > > The point still stands anyway. Oh, I don't wholly disagree. And am not exactly a Greyhawk fan. Just wanted to point out that Drow have their origins in Greyhawk. Salvatore and other FR authors certiainly took the concept and ran with it, though. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:57:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: I have read it. > 1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN. True, but there are of course elves of all allignments. > 2. Drow worship a goddess named Lolth. Shadow Elves worship the > Immortal Rafiel. Your point being? Ever heard of Eilistraee or Kiriansalee or any of the other drow gods, different worlds different gods. > 3. Drow have a spider fetish. Shadow Elves do not. No, but that's tied in with their religion, they're still basically the same, degenerated surface elves. > 4. Drow live in a quasi-magical Undersark. Shadow Elves live in a > basically perfectly normal cavern system. The City of the Stars is far from perfectly normal, and so is the City of Aengmor/Oenkhmar > 5. Drow have an unreasoning hatred for all non-drow. Shadow Elves have a > well-justified hatred for the elves of Alfheim (not all surface elves, > nor all surface beings). I beg to differ, the Shadow Elven hatred is just as justified or unreasoning as the drow's. Both were banished, sort of, somewhat cursed against daylight and not allowed back up. > 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Shadow Elves > are very intertwined with the Mystara setting. yes, but that's their culture not the race, which I feel is basically the same, but with a different name and a different culture. > 7. Drow are inherently magical. Shadow Elves get their magic from > external sources. So do drow, though all elves are somewhat magical of course. > 8. Drow are not intended as a PC race. Shadow Elves are. Drow, like any other race, is just as suitable for PC's as long as you do it properly. Remember that TSR presented everything as PC's in D&D and in AD&D they just present a couple of races and allow you to do the others yourself. This is just my humble opinion though, anyone is free to do whatever they like. For instance I think that AD&D high elves, aren't high elves at all, but then that's because I'm a big Tolkien fan, high-elves are Eldar and taller than humans. GRTZ, Michael III Mysteria ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:01:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Not at all. Shadow Elves are the anti-drow. > > In fact, Shadow Elves are more "good" than normal Mystaran > Elves. Remember, the SE's came with an offer of peace. The > Alfeimers rejected rather rudely. > > Ditto Drow, see Drizzt, Qilue etc. in FR > > But they are all _EVIL_. EVIL, QILUE??? I think NOT. Nore Drizzt. Besides Evil is just a relative opinion (ha ha ha). > > That's because drow and shadow elves are just > namecards > > Completely beg to differ. Shadow Elves and Drow are not the > same Elvish subrace. Drow worship Lolth. SE's venerate > Rafiel. Drow are _EVIL_. Shadow Elves are misunderstood. Again, religion does not make one a different race, I am not of the Christian race and another of the Muslim or whatever race. And MANY drow are evil, not all. But that's tied in with religion. Chaotic Good is not a RACE either. GRYTZ, Michael III Mysteria ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:43:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Completely beg to differ. Shadow Elves and Drow are not the > > same Elvish subrace. Drow worship Lolth. SE's venerate > > Rafiel. Drow are _EVIL_. Shadow Elves are misunderstood. > > Again, religion does not make one a different race, I am not of the > Christian race and another of the Muslim or whatever race. And MANY drow are > evil, not all. But that's tied in with religion. Chaotic Good is not a RACE > either. Have you read the "Complete book of Elves"? Did you read what created the drow? Lust for power. Ok. Now. Do you know what created the Shadow Elves, and drove them underground? Probably not. A nuclear winter. See the difference? Drow were designed to be villains. Shadow Elves are just an underground race of elves who happen to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN SPIRIT THAN DROW. Did you miss that point? There are no _EVIL_ races on Mystara. Every race has it's own point of view, and no race exists to simply be an enemy of everything. That's why they made the Gaz series. In Gaz 10, orcs and trolls are seen as the good guys defending their land against the evil humans. in Gaz 13, Shadow Elves are the good guys, spurned by their surface cousins because they are different, not because they are some spider worshipping subrace of blackest evil. Ethan PS - Sorry about my rant, guys and gals. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ranma Al'Thor writes: >Because they know the destruction of Alphatia was caused by the Immortals and it's their mess to clean up. It was a complete violation of the laws against immortal interfence with mortals.< I have to disagree. The immortals may have felt responsible (and they should have), but no immortal laws were violated during this incident. Rad acted as Etienne De'Amberville while on Mystara (his mortal identity) and never once used his immortal powers. He did use the NoS, but so do other mortals...in other words it was "legal" act, although a rather destructive one. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 08:00:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Elves? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- H�vard wrote: > Has anyone made a list of all the elven clans of > Mystara? Yes, Jenn has an excellent listing on her site: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/elfclans.html Hope this helps! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:54:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Have you read the "Complete book of Elves"? > > Did you read what created the drow? > > Lust for power. > > Ok. Yes, and I play FR as well, and I've read the Novel Evermeet, which details the Crown Wars, which eventually leads to the banishing of Lolth/Lloth. > Now. Do you know what created the Shadow Elves, and drove > them underground? Probably not. > > A nuclear winter. Yes, I do, I have Gaz.13 as well as many other Mystara stuff, so I know all about the Blackmoor device, triggered by the elves, which drove them underground. > See the difference? Drow were designed to be villains. No, Drow are a race that made a mistake in it's past and are envious of their aboveground cousins. You mustn't think off a race as a roleplaying tool, that limits the scope of the game. I hate it when people sacrifice story elements etc. for game-balance, game-mechanics or whatever, a game must be limited by imagination not game-mechanics. > Shadow Elves are just an underground race of elves who > happen to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN SPIRIT THAN DROW. > Did you miss that point? There are no _EVIL_ races on > Mystara. Every race has it's own point of view, and no race > exists to simply be an enemy of everything. That's why they > made the Gaz series. In Gaz 10, orcs and trolls are seen as > the good guys defending their land against the evil humans. > in Gaz 13, Shadow Elves are the good guys, spurned by their > surface cousins because they are different, not because they > are some spider worshipping subrace of blackest evil. If you read my other posts, I made that point too, Evil is a difference of opinion, but that's the case with drow too, what they're doing is GOOD in their religion, which makes me return to my own opinion. Drow and Shadow Elves are both elves driven underground who've grown vulnerable to sunlight, one has dark skin, one light, but they're both still underground elves. With differing cultures and relion, but at heart still elves who've developed a weakness for light and envy their aboveground elves, and if you don't think Shadow Elves can be evil, check out the Schattenalfen, who are also shadow elven. And Atzanteotl was a shadow elf in life too, at the time of the GRoF in fact. Greetings to one and all, Michael III Mysteria > > Ethan > > PS - Sorry about my rant, guys and gals. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:57:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have to disagree. The immortals may have felt > responsible (and they should have), but no immortal > laws were violated during this incident. Rad acted as > Etienne De'Amberville while on Mystara (his mortal > identity) and never once used his immortal powers. He > did use the NoS, but so do other mortals...in other > words it was "legal" act, although a rather > destructive one. I in turn disagree with you, Rad shouldn't have been doing his Etienne act in the first place, having become immortal. NoS is immortal business as well and the Doomsday device certainly interfered with mortal affairs. Etienne not following the rules is what started the war in the first place, he felt he wasn't bound by them, having become immortal on his own. GRTZ, Michael III Mysteria ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:25:46 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Introducing- Arrh!] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Francisco V. Navarro" wrote: >>Arrh (Immortal Patron of Piracy) > >Hahaha! This is very good. >Do you think some people might mix him up with Ar of Floating Ar fame? Hmmm... I'd forgotten about Ar. I think he is known as Palartarkan mostly= , though, isn't he? Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:25:41 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site + a small 'success' story In-Reply-To: <384254261.948981900093.JavaMail.root@web24.pub01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, John Hofmann wrote: > It would have been nice to have resources available to people wishing to > find the OOP and Never to Be Reprinted rules. I agree completely. I guess WotC considers these rules too much of a competition to their published games. > I assume that it would be tough, if not nearly impossible, for WotC to find > copyright material if someone posts it and just tells a few friends about it > ... it's when it's publicized that WotC would find out about it. Yes. I would hate having to sneak around, searching for illegal information. And its a serious blow against our growing community. I was surprised myself at finding gamers at a local gaming convention claiming loudly that even though they were playing FR now, Mystara was _the_ classical fantasy setting. :) H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:39:44 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Enemy of the Gnomes] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darth Darknerd wrote: > >The Dark Elves of Mystara are a not known exist, and even by elves, they= >are only legendary. = They're akin to the Modrigswerg, IMO. Not so much completely uknown by th= e parent race (ie, elves and dwarves) as ignored and avoided out of embarrassment. Many modern members of those races would think they were o= nly legends who didn't really exist, while other more venerable members would= know the sordid truth behind the legend and know of their existence. >These elves explore the mystery of mind. They are all naturally >pscion= ic. = That might work... I forget exactly what Gaz7 says about them. Something = about them being masters of lifebinding rituals (a trait they shared with the Modrigswerg). The names (or names of crafts?) of the 9 Svartalven are lis= ted, along with specialties. = As I have them (and I've only loosely developed them) the Modrigswerg wer= e working to find a cure for the rotting plague that was affecting the dwar= vish race when they were contacted (or came into contact with) the Dark Elves = and the human cultists of the Father of Demons (Thanatos?). The Modrigswerg b= egan to experiment with the strange necromantic and lifebinding crafts of thes= e other races to try and save the ailing dwarvish race (poisoned from the G= reat Rain of Fire). Around this time, Kagyar decided to create his new dwarvish race, so he t= ook a few dwarves, studied them, and discovered how to repair the mutagenic dam= ages to their bodies. He then implemented these cures within the fetuses of se= veral dwarvish women, such that new, healthy dwarves began to be born, and grad= ually repopulate the dwarvish race remaining on the outer world. When all of the dwarves except for the Modrigswerg (whose strange practic= es had already caused them to be shunned and avoided, and whom Kagyar had no= interest in) began to recover, the plague and its effects were blamed on = the Modrigswerg, and they were banished from Rockhome, their clan name strick= en from all historical records. They emigrated to the Northern Reaches, where they did, eventually, manag= e to halt the deterioration of their race (but were unable to repair the damag= e that had already been done). They became known as the Modrigswerg, then, = and continued a long, slow slide into depravity and madness. Their allies, the Dark Elves and human cultists, were eventually wiped ou= t by Antalian humans. Or so it was thought- the Dark Elves survive, but far, f= ar below the lands they once inhabited... Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:39:45 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: WotI Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We were just talking about that the other day. > > I've personally always felt the WotI to be somewhat incoherant and > improbable. > That was pretty much everyone's conclusion. > For starters why would Eiryndul join a league against Alphatia, by far > the largest group of supporters he has are the Shiye elves of Alphatia, > and by joining the other side he would simply drive them into the arms > of his rival Ilsundal. > The best theory on that one is that he is involved on opposite sides from Ilsundal precisely *because* of their rivalry (I can't remember who posted that theory). Remember, he's not in a league against Alphatia, nor does he tell his followers in Alphatia to turn traitor: he just discourages them from helping out. The Shiye elves never seem that enthusiastic in the war, becoming part of the "peace now" faction and some of them (an unknown number) chose exile in the end over following Zandor down the drain - so from that it would seem that Eiryndul doesn't risk losing his followers to Ilsundal by taking the stance he does. None the less, IMO whether he likes Ilsundal or not, they'd probably find themselves on the same side for the same reasons: even if they didn't like working together, they both have the same thing to loose if use of the Radience goes on unchecked. > Then the names of the two Immortal alliances, I think they're switched > around. > The names of the alliances are inconsiquential. BUT they reflect the priorities of the *Immortals* involved, not their mortal followers. Few of the Immortals in question care whether the Alphers are anti-fire and pro-Air (the Immortal Alphatia is the only one who would) - in WotI they aren't lining up for or against Alphatia. They line up their mortal followings based upon the dynamics of their Immortal friends and foes. That said, again it isn't the names of the alliances that bother me - it's the membership of each group which seems strange at best. > Vanya FIRE obviously. > ? No. Vanya is an immortal of time. Fire has no special significance for her. > > Ka, this guy should have been neutral. > No, Ka is just put on the wrong side, period - overuse of the Radience threatens to drive "magical" races into extinction (faeriekind and various other creatures): Ka should have been part of the RoF. > > And then the Ring of Fire: > Ixion is affiliated with Energy > So is Rad, and so is Rafiel. The Radience is something that came to Mystara "from the stars" - and (if we go by IRL physics), it is run by the same principles of fusion that stars are. > > Shouldn't Rad have been punished severely for interferring so much, up to > the point of creating an anti-alphatian weapon (yeah it malfunctioned I > know). > Well, I *do* know that there is a faction of folks (hint) who think anything anyone does that is "anti-alphatian" should be severely punished, but the Immortals aren't like that. (Well, ok: for those of you who are using my "Alphatian History: Revised", the Immortals worship Alphatia, and anything they do that might harm Alphatia could then be considered a sin or apostacy, mandating severe pennance and atonement. But for those using the "canon" Mystara, this doesn't apply, except among Dupuisian Heretics). Rad doesn't do anything *as an Immortal* to harm any nation. He creates the Doomsday Weapon in his mortal identity of d'Ambreville. And that's kosher, as far as the letter of the laws of the Immortals goes. Of course the conflict was over whether this "inaction" was in accordance with the spirit of those laws (since fiddling with the Radience would inarguably have greater long-term consiquences than, for example, the Entropics casting Transform spells on a hand full of patsies). Still, the Immortals can barely get each other to follow the letter of their laws, so expecting them to follow the spirit is a bit much. No, if Rad were to be punished for anything by the Immortals, it would be for disobedience of his boss and of the council decision (the stuff at the begining of WotI, that sets up the factions) - whether he helped or harmed these or those mortals while in a mortal identity is irrelivant. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:37:01 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Arminath Wynter Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/27/00 9:35:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, anowack@JUNO.COM writes: << 1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN.>> Yes, yes we are, unless you listen to that Alfheim trash. << 2. Drow worship a goddess named Lolth. Shadow Elves worship the Immortal Rafiel.>> The one thing to remember here is that now we have a realm on the surface and are learning more about the other elven immortals. Rafiel will always be known as the patron of our branch of the elven race, but other immortals will gain a few of our numbers. << 3. Drow have a spider fetish. Shadow Elves do not.>> And might I add, have you ever seen a drow ride a skinwing? << 4. Drow live in a quasi-magical Undersark. Shadow Elves live in a basically perfectly normal cavern system.>> The only exception is the City of Stars, in its strange reverse gravity cavern. << 5. Drow have an unreasoning hatred for all non-drow. Shadow Elves have a well-justified hatred for the elves of Alfheim (not all surface elves, nor all surface beings).>> And good reason it is! After centuries of being driven underground by that Blackmoor device (not a war or internal racial turmoil, just plain bad luck), they told us to basically stay in the dirt and leave the sun and surface to them. The drow were corrupt in their hearts. << 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Shadow Elves are very intertwined with the Mystara setting.>> Well, they're stuck in ALL AD&D settings except my beloved one. << 7. Drow are inherently magical. Shadow Elves get their magic from external sources.>> Very true, nothing helped us in the early years but back breaking hard work and luck. << 8. Drow are not intended as a PC race. Shadow Elves are.>> Drow weren't in the beginning, but the powermunchkins needed their fix and TSR bowed to them. Ever notice how each new edition of the game is an escalation of power? Take fighters for instance, originally they had the same d8's for hit points as monsters, because both were supposed to be the toughest...then fighters got d10's and the monsters were stuck at d8's...a 9th level fighter with more hit points than a hill giant? Oh wait, they raised the Hit dice for Hill Giants from 9 to 12+ because the PCs were getting too powerful...see what I mean? Arminath Wynter, Shadow Elf Master of the Shimmergloom Caverns, Northern Karameikos ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:51:52 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: >I have read it. Sorry, couldnt resist. Any flame mail please divert to my alternate email address, Father.Jack.Hacket@Craggy.Island.com . 9. Drow suck! They are about the most laboured, overdone, overhyped, munchkinned race that the Dungeons and Dragons theme has ever endured. Like heroin - Just Say No. 10. Shadow elves are original, different, are unlike anything found on any other campaign world, and at the same time are far more in setting. And more original. And less powered. And generally - more interesting. Each to his own. So long as drow stay far, far, far away from me. (Noo, not the net almanac! Noooooooo!) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:01:57 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:57:23 +0100 Michael III Mysteria writes: > > Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: > I have read it. > The thing is, all your arguments could also be used to say that high elves or even Athasian elves were the same as drow. Yes they are all elves. They could probably even interbreed. But, you have admited that the SE are different from the drow socially, religiously, culturaly, politically, and historically. The only similarity is that they are underground elves who don't like the surface elves. Comments on your comments: >> 1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN. >True, but there are of course elves of all allignments. There are everything of every alignment, so what? > 2. Drow worship a goddess named Lolth. Shadow Elves worship the > Immortal Rafiel. >Your point being? Ever heard of Eilistraee or Kiriansalee or any of the >other drow gods, different worlds different gods. Yes, I've heard of them. The point is that the Immortal/deity is an immportant part of determining the way a group thinks and hoew it is used in the story. >> 3. Drow have a spider fetish. Shadow Elves do not. >No, but that's tied in with their religion, they're still basically the >same, degenerated surface elves. Yeah, they are both underground elves. So? Derro and duregar are both underground dwarves, but they're not the same. > 4. Drow live in a quasi-magical Undersark. Shadow Elves live in a > basically perfectly normal cavern system. >The City of the Stars is far from perfectly normal, and so is the City of >Aengmor/Oenkhmar I said _basically_ normal. For instance, SE weapons don't disintegrate in sunlight b/c they were imbuded with magical radiations. >> 5. Drow have an unreasoning hatred for all non-drow. Shadow Elves have a >> well-justified hatred for the elves of Alfheim (not all surface elves, > >nor all surface beings). >I beg to differ, the Shadow Elven hatred is just as justified or unreasoning >as the drow's. Both were banished, sort of, somewhat cursed against daylight >and not allowed back up. The SE's weren't banished... they _fled_ underground from nuclear explosion. Drow were forced underground b/c they were EVIL. The SE hate the surface elves b/c they refused to share Alfheim with them. >> 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Shadow Elves >> are very intertwined with the Mystara setting. >yes, but that's their culture not the race, which I feel is basically the >same, but with a different name and a different culture. Of course they're the same race, they're both elves. But they aren't the same! >> 7. Drow are inherently magical. Shadow Elves get their magic from >> external sources. >So do drow, though all elves are somewhat magical of course. Drow have innate magical abilities. SEs do not. Normal elves do not. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:23:56 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You will find some information on Cestia in the early articles of the Princess Ark, but not anything of substantial development. If no other Mystara Lister (Or what do we call ourselves?) has developed the region in detail (8 mile hex map, exact cultural parallels, city and dominion details) then I'd take that as a challenge! The Princess Ark series starts in issue #153. Probably that and the next four issues are in that particular region. IronWolf Michael III Mysteria wrote: > > They want you to buy the Dragon Articles CD-Rom now I think. > I might still do that, as they are supposed to have all the Princess Ark > articles on there including maps. Does anyone know? > I'd like to get some info on Cestia and that area, is that in there? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: shawn stanley > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:59 AM > Subject: [MYSTARA] dragon articles from TSR site > > > hello all > > > > the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, though now > > I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if they > > aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara relevant > ones. > > > > I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded copies of > > articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. > > > > thanks > > > > shawn stanley > > http://dnd.starflung.com > > > > what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done > for me > > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:33:52 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have to disagree with you on that. Shadow Elves are isolationist, xenophobic, and insular, but I draw the line at saying they're exactly like Drow. Drow are Chaotic Evil, empathis on 'chaotic'. Shadow Elves show much more Lawful and Neutral tendencies in terms of society, the Rafiel-worshipping Shadow Elves are a very tight-knit society. On the good/evil axis, I'd also disagree. GAZ13 paints a picture of a fairly benign society, more tolerant of behavior than others so long as every Shadow Elf is dedicated to the community and beliefs. There's room for evil individuals there, who may have their own agendas or 'evil' tendencies, without getting the 'sadistic cruel bastard' label that Drow more frequently get. (And deserve.) Probably most importantly, from the cinematic standpoint, Drow are bad guys. They always are bad guys, unless one's a player character, in which case he's an outcast with no innate abilities or magic resistance. (All of which are dependent upon Underdark radioactivity.) Shadow Elves are not meant to be the penultimate evil race of elves, they're misunderstood, they've suffered greatly, and they tend to look to themselves and their own over others. Like all the great stuff about Mystara, they don't automatically get the 'EVIL' label stamped on them. Anyway, that's my opinion. IronWolf Michael III Mysteria wrote: > > > Drow are evil > Mostly yes, and so are shadowelves > > > Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of personalities. > Ditto Drow, see Drizzt, Qilue etc. in FR > > Drow have innate magical abilities. > > Shadowelves do not. > Not as player characters, and those innate abilities come from a magical > source, like Shadow Elven shaman soul stones. > > Drow dont exist on Mystara (officially anyway) > > Shadowelves do. > That's because drow and shadow elves are just namecards > > > > H�vard > > > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > > http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 10:47:44 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael III Mysteria wrote: > > > Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: > I have read it. > > > 1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN. > True, but there are of course elves of all allignments. I think the big difference here is that Drow are universally feared and hated. They come to the surface and SLAUGHTER surface elves with cruelty and sadistic dedication. They also do the same to anyone else hapless enough to run into them. They are very much like how the Sidhe of Celtic myth were, capricious and without any morals or ethics whatsoever. They kill for seemingly no reason beyond the fact that they can, and don't really understand the idea of mercy or compassion, it is totally alien to them. Years of novels have somewhat 'humanized' the Drow into a "they're just sadistic bastards", which somewhat clouds the issue. (An interesting side source of this is the Elves of the Discworld novels, by Terry Pratchett, which are also modeled on the original celtic lore.) Shadow Elves are not like Drow in this way, not at all. GAZ13 clearly shows they have a moral and ethical system of their own, and that while they show little love for other races, they don't consider them target practice or a bit of fun. Surface races besides elves don't seem quite sure what to make of Shadow Elves, they're supposely dangerous, but probably no more than Alfheim elves if you intrude into Canolbarth. As an illustration of my point, consider that the Shadow Elves sent delegations to Darokin to demand more territory, and they also attended the summits to end the war in the Broken Lands. Drow would NEVER even consider this. Ever. They would simply take what they wanted, and kill anyone who stood in their way. And the Shadow Elves also requested aid from Elf clans in Norwold in aid for their weather spells. Drow are so self-possessed of racial importance they would never even consider asking an outsider for help in anything. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:07:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Michael III Mysteria wrote: > You mustn't think off a race as a roleplaying > tool, that limits the scope of the game. How? Personally, I thought that was what _everything_ D&D was... a roleplaying tool. Did I miss something? > If you read my other posts, I made that point too, > Evil is a difference of > opinion, but that's the case with drow too, what > they're doing is GOOD in > their religion, which makes me return to my own > opinion. I think you are confusing what the word 'good' means in xD&D alignments with what it means generically in the english language. According to any edition of D&D that uses a good & evil axis in alignments, Drow(as race and/or culture) would be considered evil. That's not really a disputable point. Re-read the alignment section of any PHB if you are unclear as to what 'evil' means in the context of the game. > Drow and Shadow Elves are both elves driven > underground who've grown vulnerable to sunlight, > one has dark skin, one light, but they're both still > underground elves. With differing cultures and > religion, but at heart still elves who've developed a > weakness for light and envy their aboveground elves, So what would make _any_ elves different, then? Just physical differences? Are we just talking 'race' in the zoological context? If that's the case, then I would still contend that Drow and Shadow Elves are different. At the risk of touching on a relatively delicate subject, skin coloration tendency is definitely a racial characteristic. If Drow are pure-black skinned and SE are pale-white skinned and both developed in a similar environment, then obviously they have some fundamental genetic difference. As an aside, why would *any* underground elves genetically have black skin? It doesn't follow logic at all. Nearly all organisms that are not exposed to sunlight have albino-like coloration. IMO, that's just another point toward the Drow being designed to be a plot-device as a typically evil race. > and if you don't think Shadow Elves can be evil, > check out the Schattenalfen, who are also shadow > elven. Of course, individual SE can be evil. Individuals of any race can be evil. Personally, I don't think Schattenalfen and SE are the same either. Genetically yes. But the culture of a group in my opinion is very important to their role in the context of the game. Saying that culture isn't relevant to a character race is like saying there is no point in having different nations in Mystara: They are all humans, right? > And Atzanteotl was a shadow elf in life too, > at the time of the GRoF in fact. I don't see the point here. Is/was Atzanteotl evil? Yes. But, as I said above, individuals of any race can be evil. That certainly doesn't mean that's the norm. Anyway, I'm not trying to say that SE are any better than Drow, just different. There is a superficial similarity, but each group serves a different purpose in relation to their respective settings. Of course, that's just my opinion... -Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:28:53 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Scattenalfen Elves(Was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Damon Brown wrote: > > > and if you don't think Shadow Elves can be evil, > > check out the Schattenalfen, who are also shadow > > elven. > > Of course, individual SE can be evil. Individuals of > any race can be evil. > Personally, I don't think Schattenalfen and SE are > the same either. Genetically yes. But the culture of a > group in my opinion is very important to their role in > the context of the game. One point though, the Schattenalfen are not quite the same as the Shadow Elves. They physically resemble them, but where the Shadow Elves are merely sensitive to light, for the Schattenalfen it's deadly. They take actual damage if they stay in the sunlight, there is no hope for them, beyond magical alteration, of surviving on the surface. This is due to exposure to radioactivity which altered them to this particular state. Oh, the source for this is the Hollow World box set. IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:29:26 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] WotI Discussion] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Ruhland wrote: > > No, if Rad were to be punished for anything by the Immortals, it would = >be for disobedience of his boss and of the council decision (the stuff at >t= he begining of WotI, that sets up the factions) - whether he helped or >harm= ed these or those mortals while in a mortal identity is irrelivant. That's pretty much it, though it also has to do with Rad's feeling that h= e shouldn't actually have a "boss"- given that he rose to Immortality on hi= s own, through the use of the Radiance, and sans sponsor. Same with Rafiel.= Essentially, then, the whole thing boils down to the Immortals trying to = lay down the law about how exactly their social/political structure, and forc= ing everyone across the board to follow it, regardless of whether they think = they should fit into that scheme of things or not. The Immortal version of the= Reformation, I'd guess. It's just unfortunate that it took such a strange and ill-conceived (in m= any ways) turn. = Don't get me wrong- I actually like the Wrath of the Immortals. In theory= , anyway. I like that it got things moving on Mystara, led into some big ch= anges and just generally turned the static phase of 1000 AC into a dynamic era.= I just wish it had been developed a bit more... I'd say realistically, but obviously this is a game... I don't know. Obviously there was the whole element of design space to consider, but it seems like there was a lot th= at (many here agree) isn't consistent with previouly established "canon". = Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:31:25 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Camel Hump & Desert Leviathan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings. I was thinking about putting a desert leviathan in the Camel Hump region of the Savage Coast. (That's west of Cimarron, southest of Robrenn.) However, I'm considering whether such a large creature could survive in so small an area. There is good supportive evidence for one, the Viliverdan colony is built in the only hilly region, obviously for safety, and the Tortles, well, this would explain why they move slowly. :) Any opinions on this? IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:38:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Michael III Mysteria wrote: > > I in turn disagree with you, Rad shouldn't have been > doing his Etienne act > in the first place, having become immortal. Why not? Etienne is just a mortal identity for Rad. Granted, it was his actual identity when he was a mortal but it's really no different than Vanya's actions as Anya or Valerias's actions as whats-her-name in Thyatis City prior to the war. > and the Doomsday device certainly interfered with > mortal affairs. Mortal identities are just a way around the the whole Immortal interference rule. Influencing the lives of mortals is a great deal of what Immortals *do*. They are just not supposed to do it in Manifestation form on the Prime. The whole concept of 'plots', however, dictates that mortals will be used as pawns to a certain degree. > not following the rules is what started the war in > the first place, he felt > he wasn't bound by them, having become immortal on > his own. Well, yes and no. Personally, I don't think Rad intended to violate the no-Immortal interference rule. AFAIK, he always used a mortal identity when interacting directly with mortals. Also, he interacted with the other Immortals in Pandius to a certain degree. I think this indicates that he was willing to follow the rules... up to a certain point. When he felt that those rules were too oppressive, he refused to submit. I think that's where he decided that he was unique and not *all* the rules applied to him. Now I'm not trying to say what Rad did was justified. I'm just throwing out my take on his motivations. auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:54:50 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Scattenalfen Elves(Was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- IronWolf wrote: > > One point though, the Schattenalfen are not quite > the same as the Shadow Elves. > They physically resemble them, but where the Shadow > Elves are merely sensitive > to light, for the Schattenalfen it's deadly. They True, true. My bad. I guess I left out a step there. This all just off the top of my head, but aren't the Schattenalfen basically descended from the Shadolwelves who were booted out of the club 'cuz they were followers of Atzanteotl? Come to think of it, the Schattenalfen are much more similar to the Drow, IMO. Of course, they aren't *complete* psycho-demon-worshipping-hedonists like the Drow :) > Oh, the source for this is the Hollow World box set. As I said, good call. auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:50:21 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:32 27/01/00 -0500, you wrote: >I was just involved in a copyright discussion on rec.games.frp.dnd and I >wound up contacting WotC about a few things. One of the things that I >dug up in my research is that WotC very highly frowns upon people >downloading things from the WotC website and making them available for >download on their personal websites. It's OK for people to download >things from the WotC page, but ONLY from the WotC page. > >The end result is that even if someone has the Dragon magazine articles, >I would advise against trying to get them and put them on your website. Min is now the official Wizards page, it's cool for me to be doing this. And because these articles aren't on the Wizards page, that's why I want to do it. >In case anyone may find this interesting, a few of us on the newsgroup >were interested in getting WotC to either: >a) reprint the Basic/Expert ... series of rules (or the Cyclopedia) in >some format >b) allow private citizens to post electronic versions of those rules on >their websites Well I'm not allowed to do option (b) on my site unless of course like the Dragon articles they were previously released. Therefore I don't like your chances. >They listened to them, but responed with a quick 'NO'. Oh, right. I didn't like your chances. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:54:37 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Read it. However here are a few of the many main differences: > >1. Drow are primarily CE. Shadow Elves are primarily LN. >2. Drow worship a goddess named Lolth. Shadow Elves worship the >Immortal Rafiel. >3. Drow have a spider fetish. Shadow Elves do not. >4. Drow live in a quasi-magical Undersark. Shadow Elves live in a >basically perfectly normal cavern system. >5. Drow have an unreasoning hatred for all non-drow. Shadow Elves have a >well-justified hatred for the elves of Alfheim (not all surface elves, >nor all surface beings). >6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. Shadow Elves >are very intertwined with the Mystara setting. >7. Drow are inherently magical. Shadow Elves get their magic from >external sources. >8. Drow are not intended as a PC race. Shadow Elves are. you forgot one 9. Drow aren't interesting. Shadow Elves are. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:19:55 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: dragon articles from TSR site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >hello all > >the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, though now I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if they aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara relevant ones. > >I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded copies of articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. > >thanks Well what do you know all the Dragon article links are actually working now! I can't find a master index page for all the articles, but for each issue that you think that they'll have up there go to http://www.wizards.com/dragon/backissues/170jun91/index.html for issue 170 for example. It might be handy to get off anything you want now before the pages go again. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:24:17 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just for fun let me make a small quotation from the Cyclopedia: p.223 second column, end of first paragraph: "...If the character is granted immortality, he may take a year to complete his mortal affairs and then must leave the Prime Plane to join the struggles of the cosmos." Apart from not interfering with mortal affairs, Rad certainly didn't comply with this rule. For which I feel the Old Ones took him away to correct him, the Amber adventure also suggests this, the Old Ones seem to test Etienne whether he's really sufficiently overcome his mortal limitations to become and immortal. I think Etienne is pretty nice as an Amber intreger or even on Glantrian national level, but building weapons of mass destruction using immortal knowledge of the Nucleus of Spheres and endangering the stability of magic? This of course is only my limited opinion, but I thinkit's based on something (but what, I can't seem to figure out what, am I...am I.....going INSANE aaargh (the Immortal of Pirates)) Quotations removed for brevity. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:26:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, but this is a bit of a stupid comment on your part, if you don't like them fine, but don't whine about it. Sorry if you take this personal, but I feel this is a stupid and unneccessary comment. GRTZ Michael III Mysteria > you forgot one > > 9. Drow aren't interesting. Shadow Elves are. > > shawn stanley > http://dnd.starflung.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:36:17 -0500 Reply-To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site Ironwolf wrote: >You will find some information on Cestia in the early articles of the Princess >Ark, but not anything of substantial development. If no other Mystara Lister (Or >what do we call ourselves?) has developed the region in detail (8 mile hex map, >exact cultural parallels, city and dominion details) then I'd take that as a >challenge! Here are some net resources for Cestia (by myself): 1. A 72-mile hex map of the region which includes Cestia, Oceania, and Everfeed, fround in the maps section of Shawn's website. 2. The first issue of the DM's Guide to Davania (a cool collaborative work - plug ends) contains a geographical and biological overview of the Isle of Cestia, including political (ie: Almanac-like) descriptions of each of the four kingdoms. Also included is the history of the place, plus descriptions of the largest settlements to be found there. This is also on Shawn's site. Hope this helps, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:29:45 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think everyone should buy the cd-rom, it might seem expensive, but for the price of , what 10 or so, dragons you get 250, including the ones that cost 50 bucks or more to get, like the first issues. I think I'll buy it anyway, maybe in a week or so, after my exams are through. Bye now, Michael III Mysteria ----- Original Message ----- From: shawn stanley To: Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] dragon articles from TSR site > At 07:32 27/01/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I was just involved in a copyright discussion on rec.games.frp.dnd and I > >wound up contacting WotC about a few things. One of the things that I > >dug up in my research is that WotC very highly frowns upon people > >downloading things from the WotC website and making them available for > >download on their personal websites. It's OK for people to download > >things from the WotC page, but ONLY from the WotC page. > > > >The end result is that even if someone has the Dragon magazine articles, > >I would advise against trying to get them and put them on your website. > > Min is now the official Wizards page, it's cool for me to be doing this. > And because these articles aren't on the Wizards page, that's why I want to > do it. > > >In case anyone may find this interesting, a few of us on the newsgroup > >were interested in getting WotC to either: > >a) reprint the Basic/Expert ... series of rules (or the Cyclopedia) in > >some format > >b) allow private citizens to post electronic versions of those rules on > >their websites > > Well I'm not allowed to do option (b) on my site unless of course like the > Dragon articles they were previously released. Therefore I don't like your > chances. > > >They listened to them, but responed with a quick 'NO'. > > Oh, right. I didn't like your chances. > > shawn stanley > http://dnd.starflung.com > > what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me > - mightyfew, "i can't wait" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:55:58 +0100 Reply-To: David.BURTIN@wanadoo.fr Sender: Mystara From: David Burtin Organization: K.A.O.S. Subject: Re: Poll Results: Preferred Nation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My vote goes for Alfheim. Caroletti a �crit : > I want many more posts, guys, too few votes...and I ask especially > LURKERS, but I could tell many more who didn't vote, also among > persistant voters! > > The Results until now: > > VOTES 33 > > Glantri 23% > Karameikos 18% > Thyatis 15% > Darokin 11% > Alphatia 6% > Hule 6% > Ylaruam 6% > Wendar 4,5% > Bellayne 3% > Rockhome 3% > Alfheim 3% > Northern Reaches 1,5% > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:49:12 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Favorite Nation Poll Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My vote goes for Blackheart, unless this is restricted to Known/Old World= nations, in which case I'd have to go with... darn, that's tough. Glantri= , I guess. Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:16:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: The Siege of Darokin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A little while back, someone asked me for my Siege of Darokin adventure. Though I don't have near enough time to write up the whole thing, here is an outline of the adventure: This all takes place in late 1006 AC, as the Master's forces are approaching Darokin City. 1. PCs must escort refugees by boat north to Corunglain. Along the way, they will be ambushed by one of the Master's wyvern riding mages and a warparty of orcs. 2. Various skirmishes with the Master's forces. 3. The Master's forces arrive at the city, encircling the westen side. 4. Get the PCs posted at the main western gates. Lots of fighting, magical battles. Notable events include High Dervish Ismet (the Hulean commander) raising all the dead to fight again. 5. Eventualy the gates will be breached. orders will be to fall back to the bridges over the Streel and fight a delaying action. 6. The bridges get blown. 7. The Master crosses the Streel, besieging the east half of the city after razing the wesatern half. 8. The Huleans reveal a company of minotaurs, which easily overwhelm the defenders on the wall 9. Street to street fighting. Climax on the steps of the Merchant's Guild Hall fighting off minotaurs. 10. Relief forces from Alfheim, Selencia, Karameikos, Five shires arrive, scattering the remnants of the Hulean forces. There you have it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:24:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 9. Drow suck! They are about the most laboured, overdone, overhyped, > munchkinned race that the Dungeons and Dragons theme has ever endured. Like > heroin - Just Say No. > > > Rob This could actually appear on Sarcastic Mystara Part Three... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:37:56 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael III Mysteria ha scritto: This of course is only my limited opinion, but I think it's based on something (but what, I can't seem to figure out what, am I...am I.....going > INSANE aaargh (the Immortal of Pirates)) > > Quotations removed for brevity. Why do all the Members of this List sooner or later become insane? (Yes, I know that you know I know the answer...ALPHATIANS!!!) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis Mystara, Prime Plane, Multiverse Dimension Etc etc etc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:42:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could you specify which resources the following are referenced from: Alphatia (Stoutfellow) Serraine (flying over Known World) Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:23:36 David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-01-26 4:07:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes: > ><< Since gnomes are found in B4 The Lost City, I suppose they must have > some way to reach the caverns under the Alasiyan desert. >> > >If we go by the gazetteers and other early sources, all of the following >nations >should have significant gnome communities in them: > >Karameikos (Highforge) >Ylaruam >Glantri (as per Gaz 4: Matou had to come from somewhere!) >Ierendi (Honor Island) >Alfheim (Alfheim Town) >Alphatia (Stoutfellow) >Serraine (flying over Known World) >Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) > >In addition, gnomes working on the great shaft would have been stranded >on the island of Aegos (Known World) and in Alphatian Neatharum (Hollow >World). > >In the Northern Reaches they are specifically mentioned as being >extinct. However, the location of Darokin suggests that it should >have a few gnomes among its population. > >Of all of the above nations, Stoutfellow in Alphatia would have the largest >gnome community (25% of 60,000 = 15,000 gnomes) followed by Karameikos >(5000 gnomes), Serraine (1500 gnomes), and Oostdok (no population figure >readily available, but clearly substantial). > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:45:22 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Could you specify which resources the following are referenced from: - Alphatia (Stoutfellow) - Serraine (flying over Known World) - Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) Also, Stoutfellow is commonly a name for Halflings. I don't know where this name originally came from. I thought of compiling a list of references for Gnomes of Mystara. Though some reference may conflict, it would be nice to see everything that was printed. That way, when we create materials for netbooks, they'll be consistant as possible with existing printed material. I'm sure those that appreciate canon will like this. ciao, Joaquin -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 00:23:36 David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-01-26 4:07:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, >agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes: > ><< Since gnomes are found in B4 The Lost City, I suppose they must have > some way to reach the caverns under the Alasiyan desert. >> > >If we go by the gazetteers and other early sources, all of the following >nations >should have significant gnome communities in them: > >Karameikos (Highforge) >Ylaruam >Glantri (as per Gaz 4: Matou had to come from somewhere!) >Ierendi (Honor Island) >Alfheim (Alfheim Town) >Alphatia (Stoutfellow) >Serraine (flying over Known World) >Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) > >In addition, gnomes working on the great shaft would have been stranded >on the island of Aegos (Known World) and in Alphatian Neatharum (Hollow >World). > >In the Northern Reaches they are specifically mentioned as being >extinct. However, the location of Darokin suggests that it should >have a few gnomes among its population. > >Of all of the above nations, Stoutfellow in Alphatia would have the largest >gnome community (25% of 60,000 = 15,000 gnomes) followed by Karameikos >(5000 gnomes), Serraine (1500 gnomes), and Oostdok (no population figure >readily available, but clearly substantial). > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:21:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] A Couple of Wierd Questions] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >1. Which of the following wouuuuld you least like to be given a shave > >by? > > > >a. Baron Norlan > >b. Bargle the Infamous > >c. Barrimor > >d. Stefan Karameikos > >e. other- please state > E.Master of Hule. I might even convert. > >2. Said shaver offers you a choice of weapons before sending you into > >Hule. Which would you pick? > > > >a. Battle Axe > >b. Long Sword > >c. Alphatian Man-o-War > >d. Nuclear Missile > Why would I need weapons in Hule? It is a nice, friendly, peaceful country where everyone lives in perfect harmony and general state of unity. > >3. Assuming you had said nuclear missile, where on Mystara would you aim > >it and why? > Monster Isle (aka Ionace). Can't nuke that place enough. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:48:33 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, as an Immortal you can be everything to everyone at everytime. Perhaps he was a Dark Elf at one time, infiltrating their society. Then when he failed to manipulate them, he attempt to subvert the Shadow Elves, and thus took the form of a Shadow Elves (which basically is a more bleached elf). Thanks for the References. I'll put this up there on the net with the Gnome refs. Perhaps, I'll call is the Mystara Book of Facts and Trivia. -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:14:14 David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-01-26 6:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, >darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: > ><< [NOTE: The dark elves are in no way to be confused with Drow or other RPG >worlds. They are completely unique in this light for Mystara. They are >referenced in GAZ11: Northern Reaches] >> > >That would be Gaz 7, actually. There is also a mention in Gaz 10: Orcs of >Thar of Atzanteotl being a "dark elf", although most later sources refer to >him >as a shadow elf. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:50:45 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes. It is all in the those articles including maps. Though the quality is not really high, overall, it is very excellent. If you have the articles themselves, it would be good to scan the maps in yourself. However, most printed works are good to have online. It's worth the purchase. (Freakin' 5 CDs!!!) -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:03:34 Michael III Mysteria wrote: >They want you to buy the Dragon Articles CD-Rom now I think. >I might still do that, as they are supposed to have all the Princess Ark >articles on there including maps. Does anyone know? >I'd like to get some info on Cestia and that area, is that in there? > >----- Original Message ----- >From: shawn stanley >To: >Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:59 AM >Subject: [MYSTARA] dragon articles from TSR site > > >> hello all >> >> the TSR site used to have a bunch of old dragon articles on it, though now >> I can't find them. Does anybody know where they are now? And if they >> aren't there, could someone send us their copies of the Mystara relevant >ones. >> >> I need em to put up on the website, and I only ever downloaded copies of >> articles from the site for issues of Dragon that I didn't own. >> >> thanks >> >> shawn stanley >> http://dnd.starflung.com >> >> what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done >for me >> - mightyfew, "i can't wait" >> >> ******************************************************************** >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >> Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:55:46 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't think this was ever a blame "America". I think the original comments were more on the line of correcty representing native americans and also in a positive light. There should not be anything wrong with this discourse. I think that preceptions derived from misconceptions and misunderstanding, e.g. Hollywood movies of "white" indians and cowboys with black/white hats, is not illustrative of Native Americans. I recomended a book to help discover in this. That is all. Nothing more. So what's the issue?!? -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 19:14:47 jdaly wrote: >The point being to keep your "blame America" attitude off this list. We can >discuss indians, communists, real world demons and dragons, religious >fundamentalists and a whole host of inflammatory, non-Mystaran topics >offline. But they really don't belong here. > >That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Darth Darknerd >To: >Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:07 PM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Atruaghin adventures? > > >> And what an elightened valuable and intelligent contribution... >> >> -- >> >> On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:15:45 jdaly wrote: >> >Poor indians blah blah blah bad Americans blah blah blah. >> >> >> >> HotBot - Search smarter. >> http://www.hotbot.com >> >> ******************************************************************** >> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >> Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:58:07 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: [ADMIN] End the American Indian Thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There never was such a debate. I don't know why people are making a big deal out of non-existant debate. My recomendation is to cease the debate on ending the debate about a non-existant debate. Are we up for a debate? ^__^ ciao, Joaquin -- On Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:33:14 Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Okay folks, I think we can go ahead and nip the indian discussion >in the bud right now, since it looks like a flamewar in the making. >Please end all discussion on this topic. > >Thanks. > > > >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@uswest.net >http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >ICQ #20039817 > >"When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed >suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija >board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:59:01 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: WotI Discussion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:01:04 Michael III Mysteria wrote: >Hi People, > >I've personally always felt the WotI to be somewhat incoherant and >improbable. Totally agree. IMC, I do not use WotI. I perfer newer maps without the geographical changes because of this. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:25:38 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: WotI Discussion In-Reply-To: <20000127100956.91617.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Michael III Mysteria wrote: > For starters why would Eiryndul join a league against Alphatia, by far the > largest group of supporters he has are the Shiye elves of Alphatia, and by > joining the other side he would simply drive them into the arms of his rival > Ilsundal. > Chivied into it by his sponsor, Rathanos, who is a firm supporter of Rad. And wants to twit Ilsundal. Since the Shiye elves do nothing to support the Alphatian war effort, it seems likely that his choice didn't push them into Ilsundal's arms. Possibly motivated by desire to not risk Ixion deciding to push other junior Immortals of Energy around as well. > Asterius NEUTRAL. Rathanos, the definition of a fire worshipper. Another > thing he's the Thothian immortal-primo so he wouldn't so soon ally against > Alphatia It relates to his desire to create a race of energy beings, which he sees Rad's researches as relevant to. And his main powerbase is the Nithians in the Hollow World, not the Thothians. Nor are the Thothians particularly devoted to the Alphatian cause despite their nominal allegiance. > I also feel that a few more of the Alphatian immortals would have supported > Ixion. > Yep. Razud and Palartarkan should have been involved. > Shouldn't Rad have been punished severely for interferring so much, up to > the point of creating an anti-alphatian weapon (yeah it malfunctioned I > know). He gets sucked into the nucleus of the Spheres at the end of WOTI; seems like a suitable punishment to me. What's this 'Curse of Amber' thing? John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ Magic Weapons: All AP rounds above 20 mm are considered as magic, as are HE and other types above 50 mm. --Strategic Review Vol. 1, #5, "Sturmgeshutz and Sorcery" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:28:29 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Thomason Subject: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. In-Reply-To: <20000127.073210.-1920005.0.djemonk@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hiya, Thought I'd stop lurking and actually speak up at last, as this is a subject I already have strong feelings about from other out-of-print TSR materials. I'm a member of the MSH mailing list (for TSR's original Marvel Super Heroes RPG - not the current SAGA thing) and we have similar problems (And I won't even go into the problems I have getting hold of old Games Workshop RPGs from their pre-wargames-only era) I assume WOTC have considered this, but this is how I look at the argument: 1) WOTC hold copyright on this stuff, and don't want it freely distributed as this could damage their hold on the copyright. I'm happy with this. 2) Some people out there actually want to buy this stuff, and don't want to pay four times the original cost for an extremely rare item from a second-hand games store (If I see another $40+ price tag on "Red Arrow, Black Shield" it's going to drive me mad. It drives me madder when I realise I could have picked up twenty copies at the time it came out and made a tidy sum from it) 3) WOTC don't want to mass-produce the things for the (relatively) few people that want to buy it, either in paper or CD format. I'm happy with this, too. 4) They don't want to give it away on their website for two reasons. a) they don't want it to take customers away from their other products Case in point - I'd never have bought AD&D if they hadn't moved the Mystara setting across to it. b) they don't want people getting hold of it for free in case there really is a demand out there and they could actually make some $$$ out of it. Okay, I'm even happy with this point. It's their material, and I'm not expecting to get something for nothing. However.... WOTC have a nifty little online store, and supposedly will soon start delivering AD&D books through it for download for people that have bought the CR2CD. Why not just grab hold of those old wordprocessor documents that the old D&D stuff is sitting around on (the old 5 1/4" disks probably propping up somebodies wonky filing cabinet), stuff them on the website, and charge some kind of reasonable download fee (I'd say a quarter to half the price of the original printed books would be fair, considering that people will then need to print off their own hardcopies). I.e., 'click here, type in credit card number, and wait for the download to start'. Heck, I'd even be happy to volunteer to OCR (and spell-check, and reformat, and edit, and proof-read, and save as a .PDF file) some modules to send to them (in the event some of those old 5 1/4"s have gotten bent, stained with coffee, eaten by a hungry halfling, fallen into a portable hole, bio-degraded into a pool of sludge) so they can make some money out of it, just to get this stuff back in circulation. And like I said, I'm happy to even pay for it, I'm not asking for a freebie from them, just so long as I don't end up paying for a collectors item just so I can play with the darn thing. If enough people volunteered, WOTC could have every Mystara product done in under a month (At a push I can OCR and spell-check a 64-page book over a weekend). And what harm could it really do them? (except maybe drag lots of new players into the old games and away from some of the new glossy format games written so a five year old - and perhaps the more educated Makai natives - can understand them) I run a second-hand games store myself, and this sort of thing would shoot me in the foot if every games company under the sun did it, but at the end of the game I'm a gamer first(the games store comes about tenth, as it's just a sideline on the internet, and I only really run it to pick up useful items for my own use). Thoughts? Matt ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:57:59 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt you truely are a revolutionary! I was too young to really get at this stuff while it was in circulation, and i would love to get it without paying an exorbitant amount for something that i, theoretically, should be getting for much less due to the nature of the product. Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:58:55 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I have to totally agree with all your points. I am someone who has gotten back into role playing (not necessarily the playing) after a hiatus of a couple of years. Over the last six months, I have had to spend over $500+ to collect alot of things I was missing. Luckily i already had the more valuable Gazetteers, but I have had to pay significant premiums to make a dent in my collection. I hope WOTC comes to its senses and allows downloads of All of its products, just to keep people interested in role playing. --- M Thomason wrote: > Hiya, > > Thought I'd stop lurking and actually speak up at > last, as this is a subject > I already have strong feelings about from other > out-of-print TSR materials. > > 2) Some people out there actually want to buy this > stuff, and don't want to > pay four times the original cost for an extremely > rare item from a > second-hand games store (If I see another $40+ price > tag on "Red Arrow, > Black Shield" it's going to drive me mad. It drives > me madder when I realise > I could have picked up twenty copies at the time it > came out and made a tidy > sum from it) > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:18:52 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Amen. If I see another copy of X10 that somebody else gets before I can get it, I'm going to go insane... I'm still celebrating snagging a copy of Gaz5 three months ago... something like that shouldn't be in serious contention for luckiest event of 1999... Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 19:16:02 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Atruaghin adventures? In-Reply-To: <00f701bf686c$68331c80$441da7cb@167.29.68.aurumcybertech.com.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > 1. Their more "forward thinking" youth keep emigrating to places where > they're appreciated. I don't get the sense that many Atruaghin, except perhaps the Children of the Bear, would emigrate. > 2. They've got sucky leaders. Well, their leaders have done a good job of maintaining their culture without conflict from the outside world. To not have any major enemies on Mystara is a darn impressive feat, a sign to me of good leadership. - Mischa Notre Dame coach Lou Holtz, on why he called plays instead of the quarterbacks: "We have had a lot of success with a dumb person calling plays. I am hesitant to have a smart one calling them" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:48:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [ADMIN] End the American Indian Thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darth Darknerd meandered fecklessly... > There never was such a debate. I don't know why people are > making a big deal out of non-existant debate. That is correct. It was not a debate. Which is why I did not use the word "debate" in my post. On the other hand, there was an interchange of negative, confrontational or sarcastic comments that were indicitive of a brewing flame war. Any further confusion? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:53:17 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc,yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, me too! I got GAZ1, 3, 5, and 8, the ones I was missing, all in one swoop about four months ago. What are the odds, aye? IronWolf Aaron E Nowack wrote: > > Amen. > > If I see another copy of X10 that somebody else gets before I can get it, > I'm going to go insane... > > I'm still celebrating snagging a copy of Gaz5 three months ago... > something like that shouldn't be in serious contention for luckiest event > of 1999... > > Aaron Nowack > "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ > > ________________________________________________________________ > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:01:00 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael III Mysteria meandered fecklessly... > Sorry, but this is a bit of a stupid comment on your part, if you don't like > them fine, but don't whine about it. > Sorry if you take this personal, but I feel this is a stupid and > unneccessary comment. People expressing their opinions in a discussion is a perfectly reasonable thing to do here on the MML. As long as the opinion is on-topic and non-inflammatory, they can say it. Please do not attack the opinions of others, or accuse them of "whining" simply because they disagree with you. If you disagree, state so and why. Or, don't. But don't make comments like these that serve no purpose other to spark a flamefest. Thank you. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:01:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: [ADMIN] End the American Indian Thread MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i'm confused. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:41:18 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will admit, at first blush, I though that the Shadow Elves were the "Mystarized" Drow. And it's not too difficult to see that they share very strong surface similarities: Dark Skin, A past that Drove them Underground (why not have them living atop a mountain in some equatorial region for their dark skin? By the gods, they should be pale-a$$ points by now), viewed by the world as 'evil', etc. I won't even touch the good / evil / misunderstood thing. But I think that the key thing is to underline WHY they are similar along with why they are different. In my own opinion, the Gazetter shows the Shadow Elves as being a noble race at heart, changed by circumstance (and those pesky immortals). The Drow on the other hand is consistently painted as by-and-large vicious and malicious and vindictive... heck, even Drizzt agrees with that assessment... and he's one of them. But, man, they're really similar... though I wouldn't go as far to say that they're the same. At least they don't have dreadlocks. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:55:53 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alexander Osias Subject: The Shadow Elf vs. Drow war MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit YEAH! Interplanar warfare sparks due to a Drow who falls in love with a Shadow Elf! And their child must be killed due to dire prophecies of some of those funky gods and immortals... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:55:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John R Hofmann Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been bugging WotC about this idea for a little bit now, and they're VERY unreceptive to the idea (as I said before). However, they may not be so unreceptive to the idea if we plant it on them from time to time. I just did recently, so we should wait a bit before hitting them with the idea again, in my opinion. Once things start calming down on the Pokemon front, WotC may have some extra people in danger of having no work (and consequently, no job). That may be the best time to go after them about something like this. With Magic: the Gathering, when too many of the original print run cards got out of hand, pricewise, WotC re-released some of them, so it seems that they might be willing to do that with DnD ... given the right conditions. I'm not sure what those conditions would be at this point, but they may present themselves in time. John Hofmann On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:28:29 -0000 M Thomason writes: > Hiya, > > Thought I'd stop lurking and actually speak up at last, as this is a > subject > I already have strong feelings about from other out-of-print TSR > materials. > I'm a member of the MSH mailing list (for TSR's original Marvel > Super Heroes > RPG - not the current SAGA thing) and we have similar problems (And > I won't > even go into the problems I have getting hold of old Games Workshop > RPGs > from their pre-wargames-only era) > > I assume WOTC have considered this, but this is how I look at the > argument: > > 1) WOTC hold copyright on this stuff, and don't want it freely > distributed > as this could damage their hold on the copyright. I'm happy with > this. > > 2) Some people out there actually want to buy this stuff, and don't > want to > pay four times the original cost for an extremely rare item from a > second-hand games store (If I see another $40+ price tag on "Red > Arrow, > Black Shield" it's going to drive me mad. It drives me madder when I > realise > I could have picked up twenty copies at the time it came out and > made a tidy > sum from it) > > 3) WOTC don't want to mass-produce the things for the (relatively) > few > people that want to buy it, either in paper or CD format. I'm happy > with > this, too. > > 4) They don't want to give it away on their website for two reasons. > > a) they don't want it to take customers away from their other > products > Case in point - I'd never have bought AD&D if they hadn't > moved the > Mystara setting across to it. > > b) they don't want people getting hold of it for free in case > there really > is a demand out there and they could actually make some $$$ out > of it. > > Okay, I'm even happy with this point. It's their material, and I'm > not > expecting to get something for nothing. > > However.... > > WOTC have a nifty little online store, and supposedly will soon > start > delivering AD&D books through it for download for people that have > bought > the CR2CD. Why not just grab hold of those old wordprocessor > documents that > the old D&D stuff is sitting around on (the old 5 1/4" disks > probably > propping up somebodies wonky filing cabinet), stuff them on the > website, and > charge some kind of reasonable download fee (I'd say a quarter to > half the > price of the original printed books would be fair, considering that > people > will then need to print off their own hardcopies). I.e., 'click > here, type > in credit card number, and wait for the download to start'. > > Heck, I'd even be happy to volunteer to OCR (and spell-check, and > reformat, > and edit, and proof-read, and save as a .PDF file) some modules to > send to > them (in the event some of those old 5 1/4"s have gotten bent, > stained with > coffee, eaten by a hungry halfling, fallen into a portable hole, > bio-degraded into a pool of sludge) so they can make some money out > of it, > just to get this stuff back in circulation. And like I said, I'm > happy to > even pay for it, I'm not asking for a freebie from them, just so > long as I > don't end up paying for a collectors item just so I can play with > the darn > thing. If enough people volunteered, WOTC could have every Mystara > product > done in under a month (At a push I can OCR and spell-check a 64-page > book > over a weekend). > > And what harm could it really do them? (except maybe drag lots of > new > players into the old games and away from some of the new glossy > format games > written so a five year old - and perhaps the more educated Makai > natives - > can understand them) > > I run a second-hand games store myself, and this sort of thing would > shoot > me in the foot if every games company under the sun did it, but at > the end > of the game I'm a gamer first(the games store comes about tenth, as > it's > just a sideline on the internet, and I only really run it to pick up > useful > items for my own use). > > Thoughts? > > > Matt > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: > http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:30:38 -0800 Reply-To: Jenni Merrifield Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes In-Reply-To: <00c901bf6932$96908c40$441da7cb@167.29.68.aurumcybertech.com.ph> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Alexander Osias wrote: > I will admit, at first blush, I though that the Shadow Elves were the > "Mystarized" Drow. > > And it's not too difficult to see that they share very strong surface > similarities: Dark Skin, A past that Drove them Underground (why not have > them living atop a mountain in some equatorial region for their dark skin? > By the gods, they should be pale-a$$ points by now) >[...snip...] Uh... It's been a while since I read the Shadow Elves Gaz, but I thought they *were* described as haveing pale skin -- the picture on the cover with the black skinned female elf has frequently been noted as an error. Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield | Designing to Requirements -=> strawberryJAMM <=- | And Walking on Water strawberry@jamm.com | Are Easy if Both http://www.jamm.com/jenni/ | Are Frozen ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:47:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I for one would go crazy if they re-released all of the old files in PDF format! It would be like X-mas all over again, of course, the monetary worth of my (ahem) large collection would be worthless, but i'd still be happy :) WOTC re-released all of the old AD&D1 books as minature pocket guides a few months ago. Maybe they could do a similar ting with the Gaz'es? Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:23:49 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Correct!!! If people read my prior message clearly they would not the following facts: DROW are NOT the enemy of Gnomes. DARK-ELVES are the enemy of Gnomes. DARK-ELVES exist in Mystara. DROW do NOT exist in Mystara. DARK-ELVES are not DROW. Is this clear. Everyone uses Drow in this discussion, but my attention was NEVER to use DROW from as developed in Greyhawk/FR. The Dark Elves I mentioned have an alignment of Lawful. If people wanted to use AD&D1 then their alignment would mostly be 10% Lawful Good, 35% Lawful Evil, 65% Lawful Neutral. They have their own philosophy. They have never heard of Lloth. And like Azanteotl, they would laugh her out of their area. They refuse to worship Immortals as gods, as they consider Immortals a higher state of being, which is an attainable goal for their race. -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:59:58 Hevard wrote: >On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Michael III Mysteria wrote: > >> It's 13, 14 is Atruaghin Clans. >> But I disagree with the distinction between Drow and Shadow elves, I think >> that apart from their different skincolour (very dark vs. very pale) they're >> the same. > >Drow are evil >Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of personalities. >Drow have innate magical abilities. >Shadowelves do not. >Drow dont exist on Mystara (officially anyway) >Shadowelves do. > >Hevard > >Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) >http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa >http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:25:16 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I never wanted, nor desired to integrate Drow into Mystara. Perhaps, Drow do suck. Who cares?!?! Drow are not apart of Mystara. However, Dark Elves are apart of Mystara, and Mystaran Dark Elves are NOT Drow. -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:24:34 Caroletti wrote: >> 9. Drow suck! They are about the most laboured, overdone, overhyped, >> munchkinned race that the Dungeons and Dragons theme has ever endured. Like >> heroin - Just Say No. >> >> >> Rob > >This could actually appear on Sarcastic Mystara Part Three... > >Iulius Sergius Scaevola >Captain of the XXth Cohort >Port Lucinius, Thyatis > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:25:41 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: WotI Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 5:10:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, michaelmysteria@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << Shouldn't Rad have been punished severely for interferring so much, up to the point of creating an anti-alphatian weapon (yeah it malfunctioned I know). >> Two answers to that one: 1) Rad did not make that weapon -- Etienne did. That technicality is enough to keep him out of official trouble with the Immortals -- of course, unofficially he was already in really hot water with Ixion and his allies. 2) The Old One did punish him by taking him away and making him review his entire life as both a mortal and an Immortal. I would imagine that the review of his career as an Immortal was completed before the PCs became involved in "Mark of Amber" -- doubtless he saw the deaths of each and every Alphatian killed by his doomsday weapon. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:25:40 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: dragon articles from TSR site MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 5:12:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, michaelmysteria@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << They want you to buy the Dragon Articles CD-Rom now I think. I might still do that, as they are supposed to have all the Princess Ark articles on there including maps. Does anyone know? I'd like to get some info on Cestia and that area, is that in there? >> The CD-ROM collection has everything from The Strategic Review plus Dragon issues #1-250, except for some game pieces from included games. So yes, everything that Dragon published about Mystara to date is in there, as there is no Mystara material in any issue of Dragon from #251 on to at least the January 2000 issue. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:32:26 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A few comments. 1. Alfeimers rejected their proposal, but they did not terminate negoiations. They did not have room to turn Alfheim into China. There are way too many Shadow Elves to keep the harmonic balance of nature in Alfheim. 2. Shadow Elves are shady. ^_^ Pun intended. 3. Mystaran Dark Elves DO NOT WORSHIP LLOTH. 4. No Drow exist in Mystara, only Dark Elves do. Lloth worshipping Drow are found in Greyhawk and Forgotton Realms, but not apart of Mystara. 5. Dark Elves, NOT DROW, exist in Mystara. -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 09:56:15 SteelAngel wrote: >> > Drow are evil >> Mostly yes, and so are shadowelves > >Not at all. Shadow Elves are the anti-drow. > >In fact, Shadow Elves are more "good" than normal Mystaran >Elves. Remember, the SE's came with an offer of peace. The >Alfeimers rejected rather rudely. > >> > Shadowelves can be found with all kinds of >personalities. >> Ditto Drow, see Drizzt, Qilue etc. in FR > >But they are all _EVIL_. > >> That's because drow and shadow elves are just >namecards > >Completely beg to differ. Shadow Elves and Drow are not the >same Elvish subrace. Drow worship Lolth. SE's venerate >Rafiel. Drow are _EVIL_. Shadow Elves are misunderstood. > >Ethan > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:33:18 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone heard of GDQ series. It is awesome. However, it is intended for GreyHawk. -- On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 07:41:38 Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Aaron E Nowack > > >> 6. Drow are very intertwined with the FR campaign setting. > > Tell that to a long time Greyhawk fan... > > >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@uswest.net >http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >ICQ #20039817 > >"When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed >suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija >board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:36:41 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Gazetteer forsale under $10? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just saw this. Is this for real? http://store.wizards.com/product/subcategory.asp?scatid=541 HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:40:44 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: DarkElves vs Drow vs Shadow Elves (was somthing else) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I disagree. I think that the Drow and Shadow Elves are quite different. I also think that the Dark Elves and Drow are very different as well. Thus the Dark Elves and Shadow Elves are different as well. Everyone's diverse. The cultures are radically different. Drow live on worlds presented in Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms. Drow were never presented in Mystara. Dark Elves, which are not Drow, are presented as part of the Mystara campaign. On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:38:46 Michael III Mysteria wrote: > [snip.] >But I disagree with the distinction between Drow and Shadow elves, I think >that apart from their different skincolour (very dark vs. very pale) they're >the same. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:25:35 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 9:41:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, jenni@JAMM.COM writes: << Uh... It's been a while since I read the Shadow Elves Gaz, but I thought they *were* described as haveing pale skin -- the picture on the cover with the black skinned female elf has frequently been noted as an error. >> That black skinned female elf was on the cover of the Elves of Alfheim gazetteer, not the Shadow Elves gazetteer. The elves shown on the cover of the latter gazetteer all have pale white or gray complexions. My personal theory about that black elf is that she has some human ancestry from Yavdlom or the Pearl Islands. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:48:47 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Secrets of HighForge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 6:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << Could you specify which resources the following are referenced from: Alphatia (Stoutfellow)>> Dawn of the Emperors boxed set << Serraine (flying over Known World) >> PC 2: Top Ballista << Oostdok (flying over Hollow World) >> Dragon magazine, Princess Ark series ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:48:52 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 11:30:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << I never wanted, nor desired to integrate Drow into Mystara. Perhaps, Drow do suck. Who cares?!?! Drow are not apart of Mystara. However, Dark Elves are apart of Mystara, and Mystaran Dark Elves are NOT Drow. >> I think the problem is that Mystaran "dark elves" are currently poorly defined, with references only in Gaz 7 and Gaz 10. Maybe when you have written a bit more about them we will be able to think of them as something distinct from drow or shadow elves. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:48:52 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: WotI Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-01-27 6:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, ranma@FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU writes: << What's this 'Curse of Amber' thing? >> A slightly mistaken reference to the "Mark of Amber" boxed set -- probably the only worthwhile AD&D product for Mystara. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:02:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darth Darknerd meandered fecklessly... > Has anyone heard of GDQ series. It is awesome. However, > it is intended for GreyHawk. I have definitely heard of it. I have it (GDQ1-7), and have run it. It is good, a true classic. The biggest problem is that unless the GM expands on aspects of the story it tends to break down into a dungeon crawl. Some might like that (and there is nothing wrong with that, IMHO). It is certainly deadly. In the final showdown with Lolth, only one party member made it out of the Abyss alive, and they hadn't managed to kill Lloth. While it was written for Greyhawk, there is really very little there that is Greyhawk specific. Much of the module takes place either far underground or in the Abyss. It would be easily converted to FR, but because of the Drow fitting it into Mystara would take a lot of warping, either of Mystara or the adventure. One of these days I am going to run a T1-4, A1-4, GDQ1-7 super campaign... Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:26:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc,yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > written so a five year old - and perhaps the more educated Makai natives - > can understand them) > Hey, I didn't like this trend about Makai...they are not stupid, they simply can't read. > Thoughts? > > Matt Well, mostly agree on the rest Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 02:31:24 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ron Rogers Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. In-Reply-To: M Thomason 's message of Thu, 27 Jan 2000 23:28:29 -0000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Matt wrote: >I'm a member of the MSH mailing list (for >TSR's original Marvel Super Heroes RPG - not >the current SAGA thing) and we have similar >problems There is a mailing list for the original Marvel Super Heroes Game, not the card based one, but the one with the Universal Table, FASERIP, Fb,Pr,Ty,Ex, Etc? How do I sign up? CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) Knight of the Square Table http://members.tripod.com/~CronoCloud/index.html Member of the Knights Knoble http://knightsknoble.cjb.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:23:22 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: WotI Discussion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What's this 'Curse of Amber' thing? Sorry, I meant Mark of Amber ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:28:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > 2) Some people out there actually want to buy this stuff, and don't want to > pay four times the original cost for an extremely rare item from a > second-hand games store (If I see another $40+ price tag on "Red Arrow, > Black Shield" it's going to drive me mad. It drives me madder when I realise > I could have picked up twenty copies at the time it came out and made a tidy > sum from it) I'd like to get hold of one of those, since I figure there's Wat Machine stats for Alphatia in there too, is there? I won't buy it for $40 though. > WOTC have a nifty little online store, and supposedly will soon start > delivering AD&D books through it for download for people that have bought > the CR2CD. Why not just grab hold of those old wordprocessor documents that > the old D&D stuff is sitting around on (the old 5 1/4" disks probably > propping up somebodies wonky filing cabinet), stuff them on the website, and > charge some kind of reasonable download fee (I'd say a quarter to half the > price of the original printed books would be fair, considering that people > will then need to print off their own hardcopies). I.e., 'click here, type > in credit card number, and wait for the download to start'. Great Idea > Heck, I'd even be happy to volunteer to OCR (and spell-check, and reformat, > and edit, and proof-read, and save as a .PDF file) some modules to send to > them (in the event some of those old 5 1/4"s have gotten bent, stained with > coffee, eaten by a hungry halfling, fallen into a portable hole, > bio-degraded into a pool of sludge) so they can make some money out of it, > just to get this stuff back in circulation. And like I said, I'm happy to > even pay for it, I'm not asking for a freebie from them, just so long as I > don't end up paying for a collectors item just so I can play with the darn > thing. If enough people volunteered, WOTC could have every Mystara product > done in under a month (At a push I can OCR and spell-check a 64-page book > over a weekend). Me too > And what harm could it really do them? (except maybe drag lots of new > players into the old games and away from some of the new glossy format games > written so a five year old - and perhaps the more educated Makai natives - > can understand them) I agree, much of the newer stuff really sucks, I only buy Dragon and some FR stuff anymore. > I run a second-hand games store myself, and this sort of thing would shoot > me in the foot if every games company under the sun did it, but at the end > of the game I'm a gamer first(the games store comes about tenth, as it's > just a sideline on the internet, and I only really run it to pick up useful > items for my own use). > Thoughts? Love it ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:31:45 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If I see another copy of X10 that somebody else gets before I can get it, > I'm going to go insane... > > I'm still celebrating snagging a copy of Gaz5 three months ago... > something like that shouldn't be in serious contention for luckiest event > of 1999... I just bought Gaz2, Gaz4, Gaz12, HWR1 and 3 and PC3 from Dragontrove and Titangames, but I'm despairing of getting any of the other stuff I'm still missing EVER. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:33:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe you should have responded to the original post on his part then too, he felt the discussion wasn't interesting, fine, so don't participate then. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leroy Van Camp III To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2000 2:01 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) > Michael III Mysteria meandered fecklessly... > > > Sorry, but this is a bit of a stupid comment on your part, if you don't > like > > them fine, but don't whine about it. > > Sorry if you take this personal, but I feel this is a stupid and > > unneccessary comment. > > People expressing their opinions in a discussion is a perfectly > reasonable thing to do here on the MML. As long as the > opinion is on-topic and non-inflammatory, they can say it. > Please do not attack the opinions of others, or accuse them of > "whining" simply because they disagree with you. If you disagree, > state so and why. Or, don't. But don't make comments like > these that serve no purpose other to spark a flamefest. > > Thank you. > > > > Leroy Van Camp III > malacoda@uswest.net > http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html > ICQ #20039817 > > "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed > suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija > board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:35:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I for one would go crazy if they re-released all of the old > files in PDF format! It would be like X-mas all over again, > of course, the monetary worth of my (ahem) large collection > would be worthless, but i'd still be happy :) > > WOTC re-released all of the old AD&D1 books as minature > pocket guides a few months ago. Maybe they could do a > similar ting with the Gaz'es? I agree I'd go extatic if they reprinted them in ANY form, whatsoever. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:40:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Gazetteer forsale under $10? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just saw this. Is this for real? Yes and but I tried buying it from them, but they don't ship outside of the US. I've gotten hold of all of them by now, except Northern Reaches from other sources however. I recommend: http://www.dragontrove.com go to the "Dungeons and Dragons Section" (=OD&D) and http://www.titangames.com have good experiences with both and especially the first has a whole lot of stuff. Good Luck, Michael III Mysteria ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:03:12 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Markus Olavi Montola Subject: The Drow Debate MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Long time no see, but once again on the list. Differences and similarities of the Drow and the Shadow Elves: CULTURALLY The drow are individualists building their strength with internal competition. The drow are matriarchal. The drow worship an untrustworthy goddess driving her own ends above all. The drow are isolationists and xenophobics, reacting to outsiders with hatred (the captured outsiders are used as slaves (?) or sacrificed). The SE:s are collectivists (I'd argue) building their strength with cooperation and unity. Even though the shamans tend to be females, the genders are basically equal. The SE-god Rafiel tends to drive his own goals which are similar to the SE's. The SEs are isolationists and xenophobics, reacting to outsiders with fear -- the captured outsiders are treated rather fairly. --> The Drow and the SE cultures are rather different. If they lived next to one another, they would probably be in war soon. BIOLOGICALLY We might presume that the Alfheim elves are similar to the FR elves to some extent. The Shadow Elves tend to be similar to Alfheim elves, but the outlook of the drow is completely different. Some of the SEs can even pass for Alfheimers, a drow couldn't pass even for an obsidian golem. --> Can't say for sure. Both have gone a long way from being elves to similar but different directions. MAGICALLY The both are long-lived slender and magical subterranean elves. The drow infravision appears to be stronger than Shadow-Elven, and they appear to be stronger in magicks than the SEs. The Shamans are a specific to SEs. --> Magically the Drow are stronger. Because they do not have common HISTORY, we cannot compare them historically (ergo, they are historically different). To keep the discussion away from a flame war, what do we mean when we say that the drow = SE. If you want to go on with your debate, state your opinions on 'what is it to be a drow/SE'? - Markus Montola GO SEE THE GLANTRIAN PERSONNEL DIVISION AT http://sato.helsinki.fi/~montola/mystara ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:38:04 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. In-Reply-To: <20000128094038.5637.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > I just bought Gaz2, Gaz4, Gaz12, HWR1 and 3 and PC3 from Dragontrove and > Titangames, but I'm despairing of getting any of the other stuff I'm still > missing EVER. Ask around on rec.games.frp.marketplace - that's usually the best bet if you're actively seeking out items - Mischa If you're not greedy, you will go far - "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:33:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael III Mysteria meandered fecklessly... > Maybe you should have responded to the original post on his part then too, > he felt the discussion wasn't interesting, fine, so don't participate then. There was no need to respond to his post. He was simply stating his opinion. While it may not have been the most constructive of opinions, nor did it necessarily advance the conversation, it was germane to the thread and it did not attack others. All he said was... "9. Drow aren't interesting. Shadow Elves are." That's it. Really, take a deep breath and move on. It's not that big of a deal. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:22:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well never mind. I just don't see why people should respond to something they don't like, why bother? But this discussion too seems to be getting a bit pointless. So excuse me if I offended anyone, it was unintentional. The Drow vs. Shadow Elf discussion does however seem to have stirred up some dust, which was the whole point on my part, trying to get a discussion going and I've found it very entertaining. Bye for now, Michael III Mysteria What is the piece below about anyway? > "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed > suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija > board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:36:14 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: Gazetteer forsale under $10? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yeah it's true, and i just gobbled up all i could find! Anyone want some Gaz's, i'll sell them to you cheap! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:39:30 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i thought that drow and SE didn't exist in the same worlds. if that's true, then why is there a debate over which is better/worse/cooler/uglier/whateverer. If y'all wanna throw down, then you bring your SE or Drow or Avariel (oops! non canon!!!!!) and we'll go against my Tarasque, ok? <-----also non canon!!! as you can see, most of these discussions are just cannon fodder (haha different canon!!!) and such, no need to argue when comparing red delicious apples to green granny smith apples, especially if they don't coexist on the same plane . . . Meltheim the Shadowstalker Infiltrator to the Immortals Devotee of Fate Eyes of the Starwatcher ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 10:00:31 -0600 Reply-To: jruhlconob@sprynet.com Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Immortals of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Just for fun let me make a small quotation from the Cyclopedia: > > p.223 second column, end of first paragraph: > "...If the character is granted immortality, he may take a year to complete > his mortal affairs and then must leave the Prime Plane to join the struggles > of the cosmos." > > Apart from not interfering with mortal affairs, Rad certainly didn't comply > with this rule. > Well, since others haven't pointed out the inconsistancies here, I suppose it falls to me to rectify matters. There are two obvious flaws with this: 1) If you truely believed that Immortals shouldn't be taking mortal form and that they should not enter the Prime Plane or interfere with mortal affairs, then you wouldn't just be calling for the punishment of Rad. You'd be calling for the punishment of a bunch of Immortals. Valerias for one. The fact that you aren't speaks volumes about your motives. 2) Please ask a friend to let you see his (or her) copy of WotI "Codex of the Immortals" (actually, the old Gold Box set will do nicely as well). In the Codex, turn to p.73 and read the section on "Mortal Identities." Pages 75-78 should also be instructive to you. > Glantrian national level, but building weapons of mass destruction using > immortal knowledge of the Nucleus of Spheres and endangering the stability > of magic? > First, all Immortals use their "immortal knowlege" when in mortal form. That's considered ok. Secondly, Rad's knowlege of the Nucleus largely derives from what he learned as a mortal; that's how he achieved Immortality in the first place, remember. His use of the Nucleus, while radical, is little different from any mortal (mis)using an over-powered artifact. As far as "weapons of mass destruction" being used, I doubt we'll here you complaining of Thothia's campaign of mass destruction or push for Ramenhotep XXIV to be punished. It isn't weapons of mass destruction being built and used that troubles you, is it? It's who they're used against. Immortals don't (as a group*) punish folks for that. *A specific Immortal might seek vengeance against people - mortal or immortal - for screwing with his or her followers, killing them, foiling that Immortal's plots, etc. But the Immortal doing so is not enforcing the "Laws of the Immortals." You might say they're enforcing more basic and fundimental (but unwritten) laws, but not the "Laws of the Immortals." But again, to each their own campaign: in yours, the Immortals might be charged by their faith to punish those who harm those that they worship, and to take action against those Immortals who lapse in their devotion, enforcing some sort of pennance as a result. "Immortals of Alphatia" indeed. 8-)~ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:32:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Rant about Rad (was Immortals of Alphatia) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > I have to disagree. The immortals may have felt > responsible (and they should have), but no immortal > laws were violated during this incident. Rad acted as > Etienne De'Amberville while on Mystara (his mortal > identity) and never once used his immortal powers. He > did use the NoS, but so do other mortals...in other > words it was "legal" act, although a rather > destructive one. >>I in turn disagree with you, Rad shouldn't have been doing his Etienne act in the first place, having become immortal. NoS is immortal business as well and the Doomsday device certainly interfered with mortal affairs. Etienne not following the rules is what started the war in the first place, he felt he wasn't bound by them, having become immortal on his own. GRTZ, Michael III Mysteria<< True, Rad wouldn't have followed the directive of the other immortals...but he didn't have to make that choice. The other immortals (heirarchs) were divided on their decision. Ans why shouldn't Rad interact with mortals when he is in his mortal identity? Other immortals do it. Valerius for example. As long as they don't use their immortal powers, it is not "breaking the law". Other immortals send dreams to their followers. That is also interaction...so where do you draw the line? The immortals draw it at the use of immortal power. Anything else is fair game. The NoS may be immortal business, but it's very existence on Mystara also makes it mortal business. The two need not be mutually exclusive. Let's also not condemn Rad for being destructive with his mortal identity. There are loads of other immortals who through either their mortal identity or by manipulating their mortal followers, cause massive amounts of destruction on Mystara. Loki, Alphaks, Pflarr, Ixion...just to name a few. The only difference this time was that Rad was not only threatening mortals, but also threatening immortals...this is the real reason why others opposed him. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:05:44 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes (OT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mr Darknerd writes: >They have never heard of Lloth. And like Azanteotl, they would laugh her out of their area. They refuse to worship Immortals as gods, as they consider Immortals a higher state of being, which is an attainable goal for their race.< This is a little off topic, but the above statement just set off a spark of an idea in my brain. What would happen if an entire society (of let's say elves, ie the Dark Elves mentioned above) was to persue immortality, instead of just an individual? A whole society on the path to immortality...wow. What would that be like? Hmmm...I wonder if this is where the SE are headed now that they have completed the CoS? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:57:39 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aaron E Nowack writes >Amen. If I see another copy of X10 that somebody else gets before I can get it, I'm going to go insane... I'm still celebrating snagging a copy of Gaz5 three months ago... something like that shouldn't be in serious contention for luckiest event of 1999...< So you're the one who got that! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! I had it at one time, and then my brother lent it out to someone....never to return. Now I'm going insane! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:28:27 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Rant about Rad (was Immortals of Alphatia) In-Reply-To: <20000128153219.27035.qmail@web1205.mail.yahoo.com>; from chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM on Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 07:32:19AM -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Also note that the Doomsday device was only supposed to drain magic from a specified area. Rad didn't have time to properly test it, and it went horribly wrong. After this he tried to contact his oppenents with offers of a more concillatory nature. The sinking of Alphatia was caused (depending on the campaign) by the Alphatian bombardment of Glantri, or (my favourite) by some meddling PC's :) So although it was his fault, it wasn't his intention... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:27:54 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- John Calvin wrote: > > So you're the one who got that! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! > > I had it at one time, and then my brother lent it > out > to someone....never to return. Now I'm going > insane! Quick, Captain Scaevola! More Alphatian trickery!!! ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:30:40 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- David Knott wrote: > > That black skinned female elf was on the cover of > the Elves of Alfheim > gazetteer, not the Shadow Elves gazetteer. I always thought she had green skin. My assumption was that it was the artist's (mis)interpretation of a member of the Grunalf clan... auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:34:29 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WOTC re-released all of the old AD&D1 books as minature pocket guides a few months ago. Maybe they could do a similar ting with the Gaz'es? **Has anyone actually seen these things?? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:40:14 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Rant about Rad (was Immortals of Alphatia) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Gordon McCormick wrote: > After this he tried to contact his oppenents with > offers of a more concillatory nature. The sinking > of Alphatia was caused (depending on the campaign) > by the Alphatian bombardment of Glantri Yeah, that Zandor, he sure is a stable guy. I can just imagine the scene in war room: "I don't care if our capital has been destroyed by the Glantrians! And I don't care if we don't have a way to stop them from doing it again! So what if they want peace - it's MY empire now, you sniveling cowards... and I say attack! Did you hear me?!! ATTACK!!!!" Boy, I sure envy the Council on that one. auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:51:59 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Damon Brown Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- M Thomason wrote: > > Heck, I'd even be happy to volunteer to OCR (and > spell-check, and reformat, > and edit, and proof-read, and save as a .PDF file) > some modules to send to them I've already started scanning my copy of the RC. It was starting to show serious signs of its limited lifespan, so I kinda accelerated the process. I removed the binding so that I have a lovely collection of loose pages (which are *much* easier to scan). Anyway, I'm taking my time as is, but if it were part of an "official" project, I'm sure I could find the motivation to expedite the process. For that matter, I've always planned to move my Gazetteers over to electronic format, too. If WotC would offer them online, I'd purchase 'em that way even if I already had a physical copy. Great concept! Let's see what we can do to convince them it's worthwhile! auf wiedersehen, Damon ===== "He who laughs last... thinks slowest." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 16:57:40 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Thomason Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc,yeah that old thing again. In-Reply-To: <38914492.73B89282@tin.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit May I take the opportunity to apologise to Makai natives everywhere for my comments. And for the trash I dumped on Roister Island during my last vacation. Assuming anyone ever reads this to them. Matt -----Original Message----- From: Mystara [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Caroletti Sent: 28 January 2000 07:26 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Old materials, copyright, etc,yeah that old thing again. Hey, I didn't like this trend about Makai...they are not stupid, they simply can't read. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:58:40 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Clay Postma Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/28/00 9:53:24 AM Mountain Standard Time, habgyp@YAHOO.COM writes: << For that matter, I've always planned to move my Gazetteers over to electronic format, too. If WotC would offer them online, I'd purchase 'em that way even if I already had a physical copy. >> I think that all of us would buy an electronic copy of them...but I highly doubt that it will happen in the near future. WotC is busy focusing their energies on trying to save the hobby from a slow death by simplifying their line of products and their varying rules systems. It is not an appropriate time for them to start segmenting the market again. Give them another year or so after the 3E is done and then we may see some progress in getting Mystara into an electronic format. Til then...well...don't hold your breath. :) froggy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:08:32 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: Enemy of the Gnomes (OT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the premise of the dark elves society is to improve themselves and acheive immortality once again like the legendary fey, or the mythlogical Norse elves. Why should they be different? What secrets arcane was lost? These questions and others are being pursued by the Dark Elves of Mystara. It is only a state of mind. Something is keeping the Dark Elves bound to the reality of Mystara. Thus, the Dark Elves experiment in on the other races to determine the nature of the spirit, emotions, awareness, etc. Imagine, the whole world of Mystara could be one grand illusion created by the Dark Elves. In reality, your PC is really in some huge cavern, but you cannot see or recognize the reality around you. Everything seems like it is real. Your wife, children, Duke Stefan's politics, Alphatian vs Glantri war. It's all an illusion... -- On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:05:44 John Calvin wrote: >Mr Darknerd writes: >>They have never heard of Lloth. And like Azanteotl, >they would laugh >her out of their area. They refuse to worship >Immortals as gods, as >they consider Immortals a higher state of being, which >is an attainable >goal for their race.< > >This is a little off topic, but the above statement >just set off a spark of an idea in my brain. What >would happen if an entire society (of let's say elves, >ie the Dark Elves mentioned above) was to persue >immortality, instead of just an individual? A whole >society on the path to immortality...wow. What would >that be like? > >Hmmm...I wonder if this is where the SE are headed now >that they have completed the CoS? >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:17:06 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Classic Module Usage (was Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A series is easily adaptable to an upgraded version of the Iron Ring. T1-4 is tricky. I use Set, Tiamat, Lloth, as the gods, but this would be non-canon. One could use Azonteotl in place of Lloth. Bogdozan could replace Iuz. And the multi-eyed demon creature of Silver Princess module could replace Zuggtumoy. I think the mushroom demon is kind of silly. Mr. Gygax must have been smoking something when creating this. ( ^_^ Pun intended) The GDQ would be difficult, but somehow Azanteotl could be used. However, how would the big spider robot come into play? I thought of placing the GDQ series under Alphatia. -- On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:02:07 Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Darth Darknerd meandered fecklessly... > >> Has anyone heard of GDQ series. It is awesome. However, >> it is intended for GreyHawk. > >I have definitely heard of it. I have it (GDQ1-7), and have run it. >It is good, a true classic. The biggest problem is that unless the >GM expands on aspects of the story it tends to break down >into a dungeon crawl. Some might like that (and there is nothing >wrong with that, IMHO). It is certainly deadly. In the final >showdown with Lolth, only one party member made it out of >the Abyss alive, and they hadn't managed to kill Lloth. > >While it was written for Greyhawk, there is really very little >there that is Greyhawk specific. Much of the module takes >place either far underground or in the Abyss. It would be >easily converted to FR, but because of the Drow fitting it into >Mystara would take a lot of warping, either of Mystara or the >adventure. > >One of these days I am going to run a T1-4, A1-4, GDQ1-7 >super campaign... > > >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@uswest.net >http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >ICQ #20039817 > >"When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed >suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija >board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 08:39:42 -0800 Reply-To: oracle@wizards.com Sender: Mystara From: Jim Butler Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright In-Reply-To: <20000127.205650.-1716569.0.djemonk@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings! We're currently working on producing all of the old Forgotten Realms materials electronically in a product called the Candlekeep Scrolls. While we haven't decided on an exact format for these yet, I'm guessing that they'll all be PDF (allowing cross-platform use). Assuming this grand experiment is successful, I'll be looking at the possibility of getting other worlds in print. It might be a big "Classic Worlds" Cd-ROM or some other compilation to get more people interested. We'll just have to wait and see how the Candlekeep Scrolls does. Good Gaming! Jim Butler, Brand Manager Alternity, D&D Worlds Wizards of the Coast, Inc. http://www.wizards.com (425) 254-2289 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:26:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright,etc,yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit M Thomason ha scritto: > May I take the opportunity to apologise to Makai natives everywhere for my > comments. > > And for the trash I dumped on Roister Island during my last vacation. > > Assuming anyone ever reads this to them. > > Matt Well, maybe I could do, if you're Alphatian. Then they'll stop to throw garbage to us Thyatian tourists. Last time I was in Ierendi...uh, but why should I tell you?? It's embarassing enough... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:14:00 +0100 Reply-To: mystara@com.bi Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: where to find OOP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have to repeat myself but i recently posted a list of OOP that you people can buy from a store in Strasbourg (france) at a reasonable price. The guy in cherge of the store is Fran�ois Gromer and his mail adress is for the moment the cheapest mean to reach him. fwg@cybercable.tm.fr I hope you would be as lucky as i was cause he found me everything for no more than the original price. (maybe i got lucky). -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 14:23:52 -0500 Reply-To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, > >WOTC re-released all of the old AD&D1 books as minature >pocket guides a few months ago. Maybe they could do a >similar ting with the Gaz'es? > > >**Has anyone actually seen these things?? Yeah, they had them at my local gaming store for a while - interesting concept, but when they miniaturised them, *everything* was done (charts, pictures, maps, text) - such that in some cases one might need a microscope to read them. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:28:07 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Dark Elves of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mystara, most have not heard of the Dark Elves. The very Elves themselves do not even remember the existence of Dark Elves, except through the through mythology and legends. The Shadow Elves also do not know of the Dark Elves except through the very same mythology and legends. Though unbeknownst to many, some Shadow Elves have had contact with the Dark Elves. There are some clues referencing the Dark Elves from ancient Dwarven and Gnomish writtings. But this is very obscure. The Norse legends tell of Svaralfheim, but this is believed to be only of legends. The gnomes know all to well of dark elves. Though even to them, their existence is a shroud of mystery. Whole communities of gnomes have disappeared. There is no evidence left behind of any attacker. The gnomes blame this on the legendary enemy, but there is no hard evidence to prove their claims. The Dark Elves live deep below the ground under Alphatia and the Isle of Dawn. The have a large and expansive kingdom. The Dark Elves remain hidden to all races, and there is no real physical way to reach their domain. The Dark Elves use special powers to transverse back and forth between the surface world and other subterranean areas through special powers of the mind. All dark elves have inherent mental abilities. They can communicate through telepathy with one another. They can enter and exit portals that are triggered by the Dark Elven powers of the mind. Once on the surface world, the dark elves can use their abilities to be invisible to everyone except other dark elves. This is not a bending of light, but rather a mental affect, where people sub-consciously ignore the dark elf as if s/he does not exist. Another power they have is to take the form of another person. They can infiltrate societies using this technique. If the dark elf does not role-play the new role well, then some might have suspicion (allowing a saving throw). Many dark elves might have the mental abilities beyond the basic abilities shared by all, and thus can adapt to adverse situations, like when their cover is blown. The Dark Elves understand a history that reaches farther back than that of the Blackmoor era. They were there in the beginning when they were able to manipulate reality with exacting precision. During the time of the fey, they were always ignored and shunned. Perhaps it is because the dark elves preferred to communicate full understanding through the mind, where the other fey communicated through song. In the darkness and shadow, the dark elves existed. They were never considered diabolical or evil. They were just never the preferred as they communicated and practiced their art in different manner. They became the ignored and invisible race. As reality formed, and most of the fey escaped into the dreams of man, the dark elves were left stranded in reality. They could not forge reality any longer. They now found themselves very much mortal. The dark elves secluded themselves in the subterranean world and created their own reality, half real, and half illusion. The illusion did not matter, because after all, we live in a world of our own illusions. Some dark elves were not content with remaining in a isolated pseudo-reality. They wanted more. They sought out more and journeyed to the surface world. There they saw the marvels of civilization; they saw aliens from beyond the void; they saw Immortals using Mystara as their playing ground; and they witnessed some mortals achieve Immortality. They wondered how one can achieve immortality, and they thus experimented. They wanted to know how they can achieve their immortality once again. They wanted to transcend from their trapped physically forms. They wanted to roam the multi-verse and forge a reality for themselves which is as real as Mystara. Thus they began their experiments. They tried to discover the essence of time, energy, matter, and thought. They wanted to unravel the secrets, so that they too can harness these energies and achieve their immortality as a sentient race. Many of their experiments involved thought, namely human thought and emotion. They did several experiments, but as their passion to achieve immortality increased, so did the ambition of their experiments. Some experiments were quite hideous. They abducted entire populations, sometimes civilizations, and engaged in experiments. The whole reality of the test subjects would remain unchanged. They subjects would not noticed that they have been relocated or that they were indeed in some grand experiment. Sometimes, they would shuffle the roles and identity of the subjects. The memory and very identity would be shifted and altered as part of their grand experiment. Some human captives have been known to acquire the alien logic of dark elves. In doing this, the human subject will most likely become insane, but a rare few somehow acquire mental abilities of the dark elves. When this happens, the human can enter and leave the subterranean dark world of the dark elves. One problem though is that the human will always remain invisible to non-dark elves. They can never touch, love, or talk to another human. Often these people would become the bums of streets in society where everyone simply ignores them as being a rambling deranged beggar. To remove this ability or curse, a dark elf, or a human possessing mental abilities, must do a mindwhipe of all memories of his stay in the dark elven realms. This will remove the subjects understanding of the alien logic, and thus remove all acquired abilities. (Note: Pscionists might be immune to the curse of being invisible. GM's discretion) More powerful dark elves are able to control and manipulate the minds of all known races with exception of one race: gnomes. They discovered in their dealings with dwarves, that gnomes seem immune or resistant to the natural dark elven abilities. They captured gnomes and did experiments. Somehow the gnomes can see through the dark elven's mental illusions and mental charming and manipulation affects. From this point, the gnomes were perceived as a threat, and the dark elves have indeed been purging Mystara of all traces of gnomes. Though in some cases, the gnomes have perished due to natural causes, but this is still blamed on the dark elves. The Dark Elves are very scientific. They do not understand nor relate to the emotions and moralities of lesser races. This would cause many races to consider Dark Elves as being evil, if they only knew the Dark Elves existed. The Dark Elves do not see other races, with exception of fey (elves, sprites, dryad, nymphs, etc.) as being equals. They have little disregard for them beyond that of a laboratory animal. They would treat other races like scientists treat laboratory rats. If the tests become contaminated, or the experiment is over, all test subjects are exterminated. They would not have a conflict with morality or conscious, as these creatures (other sentient races) are not considered sentient beyond that of an animal. There are a few Dark Elves, that have realized that humans have feelings and intelligent thought as well in the equivalent spectrum of Dark Elves. Though, they may support the experiments, they do not wish the test subjects to be destroyed. Some even feel that experiments that causes physical pain should not be allowed, though the majority opinion disagrees, as the results of the experiments are so vitally important for the eventual goal of transcendence. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:28:37 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Matthew Wang Subject: Re: Gazetteer forsale under $10? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I actually bought three gazetteers from them last month and they came back in great condition. Mile High Comics also has used copies of Darokin, Five Shires, top balista, and Tall Tales for really good prices. I think i paid ten bucks for each of them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:38:25 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc,yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yep, I've seen them. They're rather amusing, they're like the 1st edition books with the original covers and everything, but only a tenth the size. All you need is a shrink-wrapped die set and a pocket and you're ready to game anywhere, hoody hoo! (They are a bitch to read, though. We're talking point size 2.) IronWolf Master's Pawn wrote: > > WOTC re-released all of the old AD&D1 books as minature > pocket guides a few months ago. Maybe they could do a > similar ting with the Gaz'es? > > **Has anyone actually seen these things?? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:55:04 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Everyone knows this. Though someone's comments may have not been welcomed either way, let's not have 50 emails (exaggerating) for every one comment. As the List-Admin pointed out, he'll point out when people overstep their bounds. Let him do his job, and let's us focus on creativity and other interesting things. Let's not fall into the mire of babbling or bickering over someone's comments. -- On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:33:14 Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >Michael III Mysteria meandered fecklessly... > >> Maybe you should have responded to the original post on his part then too, >> he felt the discussion wasn't interesting, fine, so don't participate >then. > >There was no need to respond to his post. He was simply stating >his opinion. While it may not have been the most constructive >of opinions, nor did it necessarily advance the conversation, it was >germane to the thread and it did not attack others. All he said was... > >"9. Drow aren't interesting. Shadow Elves are." > >That's it. Really, take a deep breath and move on. It's not that >big of a deal. > > > >Leroy Van Camp III >malacoda@uswest.net >http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html >ICQ #20039817 > >"When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed >suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija >board, and she said she was free." > > November 17, "Wasted" > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:50:17 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul Benfield Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matthew Wang wrote: I hope WOTC comes to its senses and allows downloads > of All of its products, just to keep people interested > in role playing. > > From: Jim Butler Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, In-Reply-To: <003d01bf69d1$7c214620$0301a8c0@intapeople.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Matthew Wang wrote: > > > I hope WOTC comes to its senses and allows downloads > > of All of its products, just to keep people interested > > in role playing. > > > > Paul Benfield wrote: > Now I find that smaller shops are closing and chains stores like Virgin have > dropped RPG stockcompletely. What is the future for the hobby, will the internet kill it > completely or end up saving it? The future of the RPG hobby looks very bright, which is quite a pleasant change from where it was a few years ago. Sales of core D&D products (PHB, DMG) are up significantly, and we finally have an acquisition strategy that is targeting new customers to bring into our hobby. The Introduction to Dungeons & Dragons adventure box ($9.95 U.S.) is flying off the shelves (which it hasn't done in many years). We also have plans for tie-ins with other popular games. Diablo II and Starcraft will both see RPG introductory boxes this year, as will a special D&D Movie intro box. The Pokemon RPG is also selling VERY briskly. Gotta love that little yellow guy... In the United States, we know that millions (yes, millions) of people play D&D or other paper-based RPGs each month. It's a very strong base from which to continue to grow, and the 3rd Edition Dungeons & Dragons launch this summer will only get more people into the hobby. Good Gaming! Jim Butler, Brand Manager Alternity, D&D Worlds Wizards of the Coast, Inc. http://www.wizards.com (425) 254-2289 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:11:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Michael III Mysteria meabdered feckklessly... > What is the piece below about anyway? > > > "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed > > suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija > > board, and she said she was free." > > > > November 17, "Wasted" It's a quotation from a song. It is simply a part of my signature, placed there because I find it so very disturbing. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "When you die you're free. I had a friend who committed suicide, and she's free now. I talked to her on a ouija board, and she said she was free." November 17, "Wasted" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:11:56 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Meltheim Shadowstalker Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Drow vs. Shadow (was: Enemy of the Gnomes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this has got to be the most responses i've ever seen to a single thread by the ADMIN, good work you guys!!! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 20:34:42 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Old materials, copyright, etc, yeah that old thing again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:57:39 -0800 John Calvin writes: > Aaron E Nowack writes > >Amen. > > If I see another copy of X10 that somebody else gets > before I can get > it, > I'm going to go insane... > > I'm still celebrating snagging a copy of Gaz5 three > months ago... > something like that shouldn't be in serious contention > for luckiest > event > of 1999...< > > So you're the one who got that! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! If it was a copy at the Hitpointe, yeah, that was me. :) I thought someone else was gonna get it for sure... > I had it at one time, and then my brother lent it out > to someone....never to return. Now I'm going insane! Arghh. (another prayers to the pirate Immortal, let's see how long it takes for him to get to Heirarch status :)... remind me to never lend anyone my copy... :) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:12:24 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Site Update, Adventure Posted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings. Okay, I have posted the adventure I am, in fact, running tonight, on my website. It's called "Lair of the Arashaeem". It's mostly a dungeon crawl, and naturally focused primarily on the characters in my campaign, but I think it looks pretty good. You can reach it through the "Materials" option. Please let me know what you think, or if you decide to try running it yourself! IronWolf http://users.ewa.net/ironwolf/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:00:18 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Toth Subject: Camel Hump & Desert Leviathan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Greetings. >I was thinking about putting a desert leviathan in the Camel Hump region of the >Savage Coast. (That's west of Cimarron, southest of Robrenn.) However, I'm >considering whether such a large creature could survive in so small an area. >There is good supportive evidence for one, the Viliverdan colony is built in the >only hilly region, obviously for safety, and the Tortles, well, this would >explain why they move slowly. :) You thinking of maybe a sandworm from Dune? Maybe a small one? Just how big or small is Camel Hump. Maybe if its diet consisted soley of rock, it wouldn't be that bad, perhaps with a slow metabolism? Beyowulf Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- "Fly true, faithful shoe!" Dexter's Lab ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 23:39:14 -0800 Reply-To: ironwolf@ewa.net Sender: Mystara From: IronWolf Subject: Re: Camel Hump & Desert Leviathan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Toth wrote: > > You thinking of maybe a sandworm from Dune? Maybe a small one? Just how big > or small is Camel Hump. Maybe if its diet consisted soley of rock, it > wouldn't > be that bad, perhaps with a slow metabolism? > > Beyowulf > Steely Blue Dragon -==UDIC==- > "Fly true, faithful shoe!" Dexter's Lab The sand leviathan is in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium, and yeah, it's like straight out of Dune. :) The whole area of Camel hump covers about two dozen 8 mile hexes of territory. (not sure what that works out to in square miles.) A creature that size would require a lot of food in all likelihood. Plus there's the question of how it would reproduce... Then again, it's also an interesting reason why the space between Robrenn and Cimarron is mostly uninhabited. Story before science. Thanks for responding! IronWolf ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.