========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:12:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Narvaez: > > > > 99-100 Other (mostly dual-classed humans, excluding psionicists but including > > wizards and druids) > > A 2% of dual-class humans? Well, to qualify for dual class, one must > have a (min) 17 in the prime requisite of the second class, and a (min) > 15 in the first class. If you do some calculation, you will find that > 80% of the Narvaezans who qualify for dual classing *will* actually dual > class. Which isn't that much reasonable: I mean, why should someone > change career just because he can. Then, some dual class combos will be > really rare in Narvaez (ex., the priest who becomes a wizard... or > anyone else who becomes a wizard, for that): this means that a lot of > potential dualclassers would actually keep their original class... Probably fighter/priests virtually exclusively. > > 99 Psionicist > By the same technique, one could prove that 50% of Gargo�an potential > psionicists actually become psionicists (and not, say, diviners or > priests or any other class): quite uncommon, on Mystara. I dont think so... If you use psionicists they needn;t necessarily be rarer than wizards. Psionicists are a more ascetic and artistic than mages, this thing about deliberately Cursing themselves so they are more angst ridden so they can paint better sounds like the sort of thing psionicists do - putting themselves through hardship to draw out their full potential. Mages are more scientific, and into quasi scientific research - not self enlightenment. Hmm, thats a good idea actually - I'll have to work out a Gargonan psionicist academy now.... :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 00:23:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown In-Reply-To: <001b01bfb8bc$d33520a0$9240d4d4@rob> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:12 5/8/00 +0100, Rob wrote: >Psionicists are a more ascetic and artistic than mages, this >thing about deliberately Cursing themselves so they are more angst ridden so >they can paint better sounds like the sort of thing psionicists do - putting >themselves through hardship to draw out their full potential. > >Mages are more scientific, and into quasi scientific research - not self >enlightenment. Hmmm. I know this is my "Mage: The Ascension" bias speaking here, but I really think that's a too-broad statement. In fact, IMC, I'm trying to incorporate the idea that magic isn't available without at least some level of self-exploration. Surely there are mages who parallel RW thinkers like Archimedes or Gallileo, but surely there's also the Richard Bachs and Crowleys, too. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:17:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sure, but it's much less fun when the Fireball blows up in the PCs face as they prepare to fight a beholder, or band of minotaurs, or whatever (I've seen this happen!) Yet if you allow wild mages, including their advantages, you have to accept it when their disadvantages put the wild mage or the entire party in trouble. I don't want to put the group in that position, and so I've decided against wild mages. Only if you use a dull wild surge table... IMC at one point we had bad guys fleeing from a lump of Jello (flavour according to alignment) which was radiating dragon fear (the Jello was another PC temporarily polymorphed by accident). And other really bizarre stuff. I have seen a wild mage kill themselves only once (wild mages are not in my experience casual about their practice, on the contrary they have to be extremely careful, making use of spells like Chaos Shield). There are ways to minimise the risks. And aside from that, wild mages are IMO the most powerful of all specialist wizards - they have some kickass spells, especially at high level. I can confidently predict that a level 18 wild mage will whip any other type of wizard in a spellduel. So its right that there should be a few detriments. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 08:19:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is one use that I can see for "Wild Mages" in the Mystara > setting: On the Night of the Red Moon, all Mystaran mages > effectively become Wild Mages as their magic goes totally out > of control. Those who survive one such night might have their > mundaner friends lock them in the basement and chain them to > the wall on that night in subsequent years. I can think of at least two places which could spawn wild mages - the Magic Points of Alfheim really are simply oD&D wild magic zones, and of course the Red Curse is a case of "magic gone bad" which is another possibility. IMC I try to keep the SC and the KW quite separate, so wild mages are a Herathian thing more than anything else. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 09:59:21 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: what titanagmes has to offer this week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit D&D) (Basic Rules) B2: The Keep on the Borderlands (9034) [$3.5, F] B6: The Veiled Society (9086) [$19, VF] B1-9: In Search of Adventure (9190) [$63, VF] (Challenger (Unified) Rules) Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set (1082) [$27, Box G-Contents VF] Character and Monster Assortment Pack (9363) [$8, N] (Expert Rules) X1: The Isle of Dread (9043) [$2, Fa] X5: Temple of Death (9069) [$10, F] (Master Rules) M3: Twilight Calling (9174) (photocopied insert)[$9.5, F] -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:06:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22L=F3pez_Mercader=2C_Antonio=22?= Subject: Re: Undead/Entropy Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe only with undeads wich conserve their alignement such Nosferatus Antonio L=F3pez Mercader ATOS-ODS Departamento de Telecomunicaciones y Tiempo Real T=E9cnico de Calidad E-mail : alopezmr@enher.es T=E9lf.: 93.214.40.00 ext 323110 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 01:14:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >I can think of at least two places which could spawn wild mages - the Magic >Points of Alfheim really are simply oD&D wild magic zones, and of course the >Red Curse is a case of "magic gone bad" which is another possibility. I must admit that, since I still use OD&D, I'm not terribly knowledgeable about Wild Magic. But I would say that if you use the Barony of Gulluvia from the original orange-covered B3 (the downloadable one) it would make another good place, with it's assortment of strange monsters and the weird magical residues of the swamp. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 12:35:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Psionicists are a more ascetic and artistic than mages, this > >thing about deliberately Cursing themselves so they are more angst ridden so > >they can paint better sounds like the sort of thing psionicists do - putting > >themselves through hardship to draw out their full potential. > > > >Mages are more scientific, and into quasi scientific research - not self > >enlightenment. > > Hmmm. I know this is my "Mage: The Ascension" bias speaking here, but I > really think that's a too-broad statement. In fact, IMC, I'm trying to > incorporate the idea that magic isn't available without at least some level > of self-exploration. Surely there are mages who parallel RW thinkers like > Archimedes or Gallileo, but surely there's also the Richard Bachs and > Crowleys, too. May be, but the scientific mage is a fairly clear thing in AD&D (not that thats a bad thing, I actually like D&D "pseudo science" - its something that no other game has in as much depth). A closer analogy would be a comparison of hermetic mages and physical adepts in Shadowrun, rather than Mage the Ascension which uses a radically different base for how magic works (warping reality through willpower, as opposed to AD&D utilisation of magical energy via verbal, somatic and material components). In terms of Mage the Ascension, the AD&D psionicist is much closer. Just look at the NWPs in the psionicist and wizard groups, and it speaks volumes. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 01:47:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sure, but it's much less fun when the Fireball blows up in the PCs face as they prepare to fight a beholder, or band of minotaurs, or whatever (I've seen this happen!) Yet if you allow wild mages, including their advantages, you have to accept it when their disadvantages put the wild mage or the entire party in trouble. I don't want to put the group in that position, and so I've decided against wild mages. long time ago we had a wild mage in our group. we had a lot of fun. it was a nice charakter.. some battle later we found out that this mage hasn`t so much die luck. in critical situations the spell goes wild. we lose magical items, won a lot of fun, and get the EXP that if you have a wild mage as friend you need no so much enemeys. the charakter was a good one. we have a lot of fun. and wild mage bring collour in the game. on the Forgotten Realm the Wild mages are Ok. on Mystara i think i don`t like them so much. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:47:27 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Wild Mages In-Reply-To: <002101bfb8bd$8441d5a0$9240d4d4@rob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 May 2000, Rob wrote: > > I have seen a wild mage kill themselves only once (wild mages are not in my > experience casual about their practice, on the contrary they have to be I've seen a Wild Mage kill all his friends by trying to cast Find Familiar. I've pretty much forbidden Wild Mages since then, as they inevitably end up being lynched by the other players. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "The connection is so abstract, that we have people whose job it is to make sure the paperwork doesn't get totally disconnected from the world. Theoretically, I handle millions of dollars a day, but it is less real than this e-mail. I have never seen our product. I have never seen the sales people. I have never seen a customer." --Robert Lane describes his work as an accountant. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:04:18 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I have seen a wild mage kill themselves only once (wild mages are not in my > > experience casual about their practice, on the contrary they have to be > > I've seen a Wild Mage kill all his friends by trying to cast Find > Familiar. I've pretty much forbidden Wild Mages since then, as they > inevitably end up being lynched by the other players. How? Wild surges work on caster and target, so unless you get an area of effect one (they are pretty rare) bystanders are more or less safe. (That being said, I've seen some real beauties!). Depends if you are running an ultralowlevel campaign (like, below 3rd). I suppose a level 1 wild mage is in strife. At level 3 and above the WM just has to be prudent. You cant just be a lemon and ignore the fact you are a wild mage, you have to compensate, play it defensively. Dont just wild surge for the hell of it. There are WM spells which can help, and you can even invent a few more if they arent enough. And a wild mage casting a spell like Find Familiar, or indulging in the before dungeon power up, does not need to be in the midst of the party when doing so, thus possibly exposing them to collateral damage. Casting Nahals Reckless Dweomer all the time is not a smart move unless you are looking for an early and spectacular demise. I've played a WM up to level 18 and I've never been lynched by anyone (I was banned from spellcasting within Greyhawk City, but that was cool :) all part of the wonderful nip and tuck of playing one :). And finally, as it says in the book, the DM is the final arbiter of the surge table. So you dont have to kill the entire party (unless they are really begging for it for some reason) even in that case. But really, the chance of that happening is vanishingly small. (A lot depends on the wild surge table you use - with only a few minor modifications the Net Book of Wild Magic has a reasonable one - certainly better than the ToM version anyway). Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 10:35:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Elven subraces of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I have an idea about this and other anomalies of Mystaran elves, which >has been recurring in my mind frequently. What if Mystaran elves were >actually all half-elves, bearing a lot of elven blood? This would >explain why 1) they aren't immortal; 2) they have facial hair; 3) the >offspring of humans and "elves" are not half-elves. > The true elves that live in the dreams of humans have different powers per say than elves existing in the real world. Before in the beginning, there was not a strong line between dreams and reality, and the fey at this time were able to forge their own reality, and thus were immortal. Those that chose to live in the strict reality, have some aspects of immortality, i.e. longevity, but are indeed mortal like other species of Mystara. Elves of different realms have other properties based on other campaign specifics to how elves exist there. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:47:27 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: what titanagmes has to offer this week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What is it: Titan Games? How do they deal? Where do they deliver? The US is enough for me. TIA, vini. thibault sarlat wrote: > > D&D) > (Basic Rules) > B2: The Keep on the Borderlands (9034) [$3.5, F] > B6: The Veiled Society (9086) [$19, VF] > B1-9: In Search of Adventure (9190) [$63, VF] > (Challenger (Unified) Rules) > Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set (1082) [$27, Box G-Contents VF] > Character and Monster Assortment Pack (9363) [$8, N] > (Expert Rules) > X1: The Isle of Dread (9043) [$2, Fa] > X5: Temple of Death (9069) [$10, F] > (Master Rules) > M3: Twilight Calling (9174) (photocopied insert)[$9.5, F] > -- > Thibault Sarlat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 12:46:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Wild Mages In-Reply-To: <002701bfb90f$733a1ea0$9240d4d4@rob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 May 2000, Rob wrote: > > > I have seen a wild mage kill themselves only once (wild mages are not in > my > > > experience casual about their practice, on the contrary they have to be > > > > I've seen a Wild Mage kill all his friends by trying to cast Find > > Familiar. I've pretty much forbidden Wild Mages since then, as they > > inevitably end up being lynched by the other players. > > How? Wild surges work on caster and target, so unless you get an area of > effect one (they are pretty rare) bystanders are more or less safe. (That > being said, I've seen some real beauties!). > Instead of getting a cat as a familiar, a gateway to the Abyss opened and a type VI demon came out and slaughtered us. > has to be prudent. You cant just be a lemon and ignore the fact you are a > wild mage, you have to compensate, play it defensively. Dont just wild > surge for the hell of it. There are WM spells which can help, and you can > even invent a few more if they arent enough. And a wild mage casting a > spell like Find Familiar, or indulging in the before dungeon power up, does > not need to be in the midst of the party when doing so, thus possibly > exposing them to collateral damage. Casting Nahals Reckless Dweomer all the Oh, he moved to a 'safe distance'. It just wasn't far enough for the demon to be unable to see us. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "The connection is so abstract, that we have people whose job it is to make sure the paperwork doesn't get totally disconnected from the world. Theoretically, I handle millions of dollars a day, but it is less real than this e-mail. I have never seen our product. I have never seen the sales people. I have never seen a customer." --Robert Lane describes his work as an accountant. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:10:22 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: what titanagmes has to offer this week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had a couple of deals with them, and everything went fine.The only thing is that they sometimes have expensive stuff.But their stock is renewed often... Vinicius R. de Moraes a �crit: > What is it: Titan Games? How do they deal? Where do they deliver? The US > is enough for me. > TIA, > vini. > > thibault sarlat wrote: > > > > D&D) > > (Basic Rules) > > B2: The Keep on the Borderlands (9034) [$3.5, F] > > B6: The Veiled Society (9086) [$19, VF] > > B1-9: In Search of Adventure (9190) [$63, VF] > > (Challenger (Unified) Rules) > > Wrath of the Immortals Boxed Set (1082) [$27, Box G-Contents VF] > > Character and Monster Assortment Pack (9363) [$8, N] > > (Expert Rules) > > X1: The Isle of Dread (9043) [$2, Fa] > > X5: Temple of Death (9069) [$10, F] > > (Master Rules) > > M3: Twilight Calling (9174) (photocopied insert)[$9.5, F] > > -- > > Thibault Sarlat > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 20:17:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Gigantic update on mystara.com.bi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit At last I did it, the big one!!! You can now download pretty much everything from my site (and some other stuff will be added soon); The map section is now divided between my maps and the ones made by other people. Plus, i have added all the Voyage of the Princess Ark maps, and many city maps... Anyway , as always i hope you would have fun, and if something bother you then drop me a line.I'll answer. Next update will see all the PWA, and more magic added.But if you have other preferences , share them with me. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:41:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How? Wild surges work on caster and target, so unless you get an area of > > effect one (they are pretty rare) bystanders are more or less safe. (That > > being said, I've seen some real beauties!). > > > Instead of getting a cat as a familiar, a gateway to the Abyss opened and > a type VI demon came out and slaughtered us. Now thats nasty. A statiscally improbable event... I had a gate open once accidentally but it was to the Astral, not the Abyss. (it was 12 square miles in size as well - a damn big gate :) miscast control weather. I was proud of that one :) Hmm. The chance of doing that per spell is... hmm. Around 0.0005% (opening a gate to the Abyss). And having a Type IV come through is just nasty. After all, its a gate at random - having a manes wander through would be much more likely, and you would have one of them. Sounds like it wasnt really the fault of the wild mage, it was the fault of a) very, very unlucky dice rolls and b) a somewhat merciless DM. > > has to be prudent. You cant just be a lemon and ignore the fact you are a > > wild mage, you have to compensate, play it defensively. Dont just wild > > surge for the hell of it. There are WM spells which can help, and you can > > even invent a few more if they arent enough. And a wild mage casting a > > spell like Find Familiar, or indulging in the before dungeon power up, does > > not need to be in the midst of the party when doing so, thus possibly > > exposing them to collateral damage. Casting Nahals Reckless Dweomer all the > > Oh, he moved to a 'safe distance'. It just wasn't far enough for the > demon to be unable to see us. LoL. Well I still think your DM obviously didnt really see the point. I've seen DMs who interpret everything on the wild surge table as negatively as possible, but it aint like that. See the above for the probability, after all. Wild mages are supposed to be played for fun, after all - and I've never seen a DM kill with a fumble in melee, or a miscast conjure elemental, or any of the other myriad things which can go wrong if you roll really badly. Besides - never heard of prot from evil? :) or dispel magic? or alternate reality? or chaos shield? (alternate reality is the best one - puts the chance of a wild surge down to 1 in 400, assuming you live at least long enough to cast it). Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:47:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: MML Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I just found Wizard's MML archives, and I think they're great! They are especially useful for someone like myself, who gets the MML in digest form, as new messages are archived relatively quickly (in a matter of minutes). Now I can actually have real-time discussions on topics that I'm interested in, and then scan the rest when I get the digest. Anyway, just thought I'd post this for those who haven't found it yet. The archive is at http://209.67.104.4/archives/mystara-l.html Enjoy. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:17:14 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Sullivan wrote: > > > The exact quote, which David simplifies a bit, is > 99-00 Other (about half of these are psionicists if the class is allowed by > the DM). > I don't use pionics anyway, but if I did, I'd say Gargona's high proportion > could be derived in part from psionicists fleeing Narvaez. > Interestingly, some psionicists could effectively disguise as priests, so they could lead an uderground resistance against Baron Hugo. > < so also the 70-75% "commoners" figure may be less than realistic>> > > Agreed. I think it's much more dependant on what kind of campaign each DM > chooses to run :-) > Of course. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:11:31 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: deity-Immortal conversion (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Never ask if we are interested before sending a work...shoot always before >asking... OK, you asked for it� For those new to this thread, this list is for use with the Priest's Spell Compendium; it assigns the deity-specific spell lists to specific Immortals. Several notes: 1) Spells assigned to elven Immortals (Ilsundal, Mealiden, Eiryndul) can be cast by any elf using the spell lists in GAZ5. The DM may also allow these spells to non-elven clerics of these Immortals. 2) Spells assigned to Rafiel can be cast by any shadow elf using the spell lists in GAZ13. Similarly, spells assigned to Atzanteotl form the elf lists can be cast by schattenalfen and shadow elven followers of Atzanteotl (spells of Rafiel can be learned by surface elves, given the opportunity) 3) If a location is listed in parentheses after an Immortal's name, that spell is known only in that location (but may be learned by visiting clerics of the same Immortal). 4) The lists are given in the same order as the appendix in volume 3. 5) These conversions are intended to match Immortals to spell lists, not necessarily to deities' fields, so there may be some portfolio mismatches A) Spells listed in the clerical sphere of Law may be cast by clerics of the Immortals of Matter B) Spells listed in the clerical sphere of Chaos may be cast by clerics of the Immortals of Energy C) Spells listed in the clerical sphere of Time may be cast by clerics of the Immortals of Time D) Spells listed in the clerical sphere of Thought may be cast by clerics of the Immortals of Matter E) Clerics of the Immortals of Entropy may cast spells from the necromancer-priests list and the Ravenloft list, plus summon spectral death and create undead minion F) Spells in the clerical sphere of Travelers may be cast by clerics of Asterius and Sinbad (and so forth) G) Spells in the sea priest list are known to underwater races, but may be learned by visiting clerics H) Spells in the savage setting list may be cast by Atruaghin and Enthengari shamans (see GAZ12&14) I) Vedic spells are native to all Sindhi and Shajapuri clerics J) Otherwise, any cleric may cast any spell, given alignment restrictions and those set by the DM. Forgotten Realms lists: Akadi - Palatarkan Amaunator - Ixion Ao - no spells Auril - Odin Azuth - Rathanos Bane - Alphaks Beshaba - Tyche Bhaal - Hel Chauntea - Terra Cyric - Alphaks Deneir - Ssu-Maa Eldath - Djea Emerald Enclave - Djea, Ordana, Zirchev Finder Wyvernspur - Faunus Garagos - Bemarris Gargauth - Masauwu Gond - Kagyar Grumbar - Terra Gwaeron Windstorm - Zirchev Helm - Tarastia Hoar - Hoar's Revenance: Jammudaru, other spells: Tarastia Ibrandul - Talitha Ilmater - Diulanna Istashia - Protius Iyachtu Xvim - Alphaks Kossuth - Rathanos Lathander - Ixion Leira - Loki Lliira - Alphatia Loviatar - Thanatos Lurue - Ordana Malar - Faunus Mask - Asterius Mielikki - Zirchev Milil - Faunus Myrkul - Thanatos Mystra - Pflaar Nobanion - Bast-Et (see Dragon #247) Oghma - Ka Red Knight - Halav Savras - Yav Selune - Asterius Shar - Nyx Sharess - Valerias Shaundakal - Asterius Shiallia - Matera (Milenien Empire) Siamorphe - Taroyas Silvanus - Ordana Sune - Valerias Talona - Atzanteotl Talos - Odin Tempus - Vanya Torm - Thor Tymora - Tyche Tyr - Tarastia Ulutiu - Odin Umberlee - Protius Uthgar - Atruaghin Valkur - Calitha Velsharoon - Thanatos Waukeen - Asterius Eshowdow - Nyx Sseth - Ka Ubtao - Diulanna (Tribes of Neathar) Old Empire lists: General - Ixion, Kagyar, Pflaar, Rathanos, Ranivorus, Thanatos, Valerias (all in Nithian Empire, Thothia) Bast - Bast-Et Geb - Kagyar (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Gilgaem - Rathanos (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Hathor - Valerias (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Horus-Re - Ixion (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Isis - Valerias (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Osiris - Orisis (Nithian Empire, Thothia, White Island) Sebek - Ranivorus (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Set - Thanatos (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Thoth - Pflaar (Nithian Empire, Thothia) Tiamat - Pearl Greyhawk lists: Boccob - Ka Celestian - Palatarkan St. Cuthbert - Petra Ehlonna - Zirchev Fharlanghn - Asterius Heironus - Thor Incubalos - Atzanteotl Istus - Khoronus Iuz - Thanatos Nerull - Thanatos Pholtus - Ixion Ralishaz - Tyche Ulaa - Terra Wee Jas - Razud Dwarf lists: Abbathor - Talitha Sharindlar - detect dwarves, flowstone: Kagyar (dwarf-cleric only), other spells Cheredestes All others - Kagyar - (dwarf-clerics only) Elf lists: general spells - Ilsundal Aerdrie Faenya - faenare, ee'aar Abgharradh - divine romantic interest - Valerias, other spells Ordana Corellon Larethian - Ilsundal Deep Sashelas - Calitha Erevan Ilesere - Mealiden Fenmarel Mestarine - Eiryndul Hanali Celanil - see Angharradh Labelas Enoreth - Khoronus Rillifan Rallathil - Eiryndul Sehainine Moonbow - Asterius Shevaresh - Ilsundal Solonor Therandira - Mealiden General drow spells - Rafiel Ghaunadaur - Ranivorus Kiaransalee - Atzanteotl Lolth - Spider climb, Spidereyes, spiderform, spider summoning, spiderbite - Rafiel, all others - Atzanteotl Selvaterm - Atzanteotl Vhaeraun - Atzanteotl Gnome lists: all Garal Glitterlode Halfling lists: all spells in these lists can be cast by hin Masters Beholder list - Entropic Immortals Dragon list - Diamond, Opal, Pearl, The Great One Sahuagin list - Crakkak Treant list - spellcasting treants Tribal shaman list - these spells can be cast by monster shamans (see p. 216 in the Cyclopedia) Miscellaneous: 1) Protection form silver is granted by Mrikitat 2) Deities not listed (Deep Duerra, Eillistraee, Jergal, Kelemvor, Moander) have no appropriate equivalent - I may cover some of these with new Immortals (when I have time) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:38:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Elven subraces of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > The true elves that live in the dreams of humans have different powers = per say than elves existing in the real world.< Say what? What are these "true elves that live in the dreams of humans"? = Is this from PC1 or something? Never heard of them... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 13:51:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Elven subraces of Mystara In-Reply-To: <002101bfb92d$6e369140$7ec261d4@skytte> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:38 05/08/2000 +0200, Jacob Skytte wrote: >Say what? What are these "true elves that live in the dreams of humans"? Is this from PC1 or something? Never heard of them... Sounds like White Wolf's "Changeling: The Dreaming," and thus older Earth myths, to me. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:33:12 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Wild Mages In-Reply-To: <000901bfb91d$0c2366a0$9240d4d4@rob> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 8 May 2000, Rob wrote: > > Sounds like it wasnt really the fault of the wild mage, it was the fault of > a) very, very unlucky dice rolls and b) a somewhat merciless DM. > The same man had also managed to fireball us accidentally several times, failed to be able to effect the Demon because his wild surge rolls dropped his level low enough that the thing's magic resistance easily snuffed his spells, and on multiple occasions in the past, completely failed to keep up his end of plans due to wild surges or a sudden drop in effective level. As a result, he was simply a liability. That was the icing on the cake. He was nothing but a pain in the ass, thanks to his magic going haywire far too often. > LoL. Well I still think your DM obviously didnt really see the point. I've > seen DMs who interpret everything on the wild surge table as negatively as > possible, but it aint like that. See the above for the probability, after > all. Wild mages are supposed to be played for fun, after all - and I've > never seen a DM kill with a fumble in melee, or a miscast conjure elemental, I have. That's the whole point of having negative aspects. If the GM is going to simply ignore them or play them down, then it means the player gets bennies for nothing. > Besides - never heard of prot from evil? :) or dispel magic? or alternate > reality? or chaos shield? (alternate reality is the best one - puts the > chance of a wild surge down to 1 in 400, assuming you live at least long > enough to cast it). > It's a pity that one can't always be prepared for random, unpredictable events. It's also a pity that one can't always have the spells one would like to get. Thus, our wild mage had been unable to get chaos shield or alternate reality. We weren't stoked up on spells to fight demons. And both our clerics, who did have dispel magic, died in the first round. (I was telekinesed into the air, then slammed down into the other cleric, killing both of us) And under other circumstances, the wild mage couldn't always spend several rounds carefully casting preparatory magic, just so he would be less likely to accidentally murder us all with his own spell. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "The connection is so abstract, that we have people whose job it is to make sure the paperwork doesn't get totally disconnected from the world. Theoretically, I handle millions of dollars a day, but it is less real than this e-mail. I have never seen our product. I have never seen the sales people. I have never seen a customer." --Robert Lane describes his work as an accountant. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:14:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One point of interest about the class breakdown for the Savage Baronies: Fast forward to the 3E rules (especially the more liberal multi-classing rules that supersede the older rules for both dual-classing and multi-classing) and convert all of the psionicists to sorcerers, then the cited percentages will actually work. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 19:53:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >One point of interest about the class breakdown for the Savage Baronies: > >Fast forward to the 3E rules (especially the more liberal multi-classing rules >that supersede the older rules for both dual-classing and multi-classing) and >convert all of the psionicists to sorcerers, then the cited percentages will >actually work. Excellent point regarding multi-classing. I'm not sure about replacing psionicists with sorcerors, though. From what I've seen, they don't seem the sort that would heavily inhabit Gargona and Saragon. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:01:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Rakasta bloodlines: Tabaxi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While Tabaxi are not mentioned as a possible source of Rakasta bloodlines, it is obvious that if they exist on Mystara (as indicated in the article in Dragon #147) then they must be close relatives of that race. Die Roll: Take pick from any values in 2-7 not yet used. Terrain: This bloodline is available only to those Rakasta breeds found in tropical forests or jungles. Weak Lineage: Alignment cannot be lawful, +1 to AC, surprise, and avoidance of surprise, +3 to movement (maximum 15). Wizards may specialize in any schools open to Domestic Rakastas. Strong Lineage: Alignment must be chaotic, +2 to AC, surprise, and avoidance of surprise, +1' to base height. Wizards must specialize in necromancy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:01:03 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Rakasta bloodlines: Lammasu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the process of analyzing Bruce Heard's rakasta article in Dragon #147 for the Mystara3E project I noticed that he suggested the lammasu, feystag, cath shee, and ebon tiger as possible sources of Rakasta bloodlines. Of these, the only one that suggests obvious effects is the Lammasu: Die Roll: Take pick from 2-7, the values not accounted for in the article. Terrain: This bloodline is available only to those Rakasta breeds found in tropical or temperate plains. Weak Lineage: Alignment cannot be chaotic or evil, intelligence roll and maximum are increased by +2, cleric/paladin level limits are increased by +3, and MR of 10% is granted. Under 3E rules, "Cleric" becomes "preferred multiclass" and MR is converted to 3E equivalent. Strong Lineage: Alignment must be LG, Rakasta radiates personal "protection from evil" effect, MR of 20% is granted, and energy burst permits Rakasta to grow wings and fly at 18(D). Does anyone have any comments on these suggested bloodline abilities, or any suggestions for abilities of other bloodlines? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 02:15:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is my estimate of the approximate prevalence of near human races in the "Known World", "Savage Coast", and "Hollow World" settings of Mystara: Faenare: Faenare evolved from Aarakocra in the Sylvan Realm and accompanied the elves to Alfheim. Faenare are found in most of the moutainous regions of the "Known World". Lupin: Lupins are common in the "Known World" and "Savage Coast" but are unknown in the "Hollow World". Phanaton: Phanatons have two centers of power: One on the Orc's Head Peninsula and the other on the Isle of Dawn. They are virtually unknown elsewhere, and are not accepted as "people" in any human or demi-human lands. Rakasta: Rakastas are rare and reclusive in the "Known World" (at least until the war between Hule and the Master drove Domestic Rakasta refugees from Sind and Akesoli into other parts of Darokin), and quite common along the "Savage Coast". Ancestor Rakastas are common races in the "Hollow World". Tortle: Tortles are common along the "Savage Coast" and very rare in the other settings. Have I omitted any near human races that should be considered "common" in the best documented parts of Mystara, or given excessive prominence to near human races that should be rarer in certain regions? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 03:31:38 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Two diferent Nosferati: questions. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Is that the correct plural for Nosferatu?) Well, I found some differences between the 2 Nosferati presented on pages nosferat.html and nosfer.html, on Starflung (GREEEEAT site!). Bleow are parts of nosfer.html. "A strong garlic smell will keep a nosferatu at bay. They are unaffected by the sight of clerical symbols, and only clerics of the opposite alignment or those specialized in hunting undead can turn nosferatu. These undead creatures suffer no ill effects from contact with clerical symbols or holy water." - Turn: HOW do they turn? What happens? They stay away, but unharmed? Is a normal turn undead? "Opposite" is concerning to good/bad, only? Or the lawful/chaotic axis as well? What is a "specialized in hunting undead" clerics? Van Richten? :-) Serious, who are them, a Cult? Or anyone can get the training/ability? "Nosferatu generally avoid running water, because like their vampire kin, being immersed in running water for three consecutive rounds will destroy them. A wooden stake through its heart will accomplish the same result, although if the stake is removed, the nosferatu begins regenerating hit points. To completely destroy a staked nosferatu, it must be beheaded and have its mouth stuffed with dirt taken from ground dedicated to a good deity. Vampirism is an evil curse, and even the rare good-aligned nosferatu is vulnerable to the cleansing power of a good deity. In this case, the deity is not necessarily acting against the nosferatu, but against its evil curse." - What do you think? Page nosferat.html says the burial grounds are supposed to be of the *OPPOSITE* alignment than the Nosferatu, and not always good (good or evil if the Nosferatu is neutral) as stated here. I personally likde more this one, always good. "Nosferatu always retain all the memories, abilities, skills, and restrictions of their former character class and level. A character of higher level than the maximum Hit Dice drops to the maximum. A character with fewer than the minimum Hit Dice increases to the minimum. For example, a 12th-level mage would return as a 9 Hit Die nosferatu with spells appropriate to a 9th-level mage; likewise, a 5th-level cleric would rise to a 7 Hit Die nosferatu with clerical spells equivalent to a 7th-level cleric. After this change has taken place, the nosferatu can continue to gain experience and levels. It is difficult for a nosferatu to change and grow, however, so it must earn three times the normal number of experience points in order to advance a level. Clerical spells no longer come from the original Immortal patron, unless the nosferatu has the same alignment." - Level (see the separated line): does he get spells of a 7-th level Cleric or a 5-th (as nosferat.html says)? And there is more. YES, I'm AM going to use Nosferatu... Zemiros Sulescu. You who read the thread "vini's humble campaign" (or somethign like that) remember I put my players searching for I Graal in solo adventures. This time - the 2nd I'm running it -, guys are going as couples. The SW fortunate couple is going to Vandevicsny and Sulescu (oh, they're lucky, "Transilvania" is there...). I think that part of the realm rocks. Well, this time it will be a much nicer adventure. The other players loved the adventure, but _you_ can do it better. What do you think should happen? Should they meet Sulescu hunting, eating a mammal, flying on the forest? They could meet him later as... the Baron! Imagine you are invited to such a man's house! Who played "Strahd's Possesion" know the thrill and the fear. What about Vandevicsny? They could meet Andru. Last tiem aI ran it, the Ranger weho came here met werewolves and that was all. But instead of a 6th-level Ranger, we have a 12th-level Thief and a 9th-level Priestess of Leira (BTW, how do you deal with alien faith? Should she get her miracles? If so, given by Leira or by Bozdogan?). Well, the way you say it will happen. Cheers, vini. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:53:43 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > LoL. Well I still think your DM obviously didnt really see the point. I've > > seen DMs who interpret everything on the wild surge table as negatively as > > possible, but it aint like that. See the above for the probability, after > > all. Wild mages are supposed to be played for fun, after all - and I've > > never seen a DM kill with a fumble in melee, or a miscast conjure elemental, > > I have. That's the whole point of having negative aspects. If the GM is > going to simply ignore them or play them down, then it means the player > gets bennies for nothing. No..... that gate could have gone anywhere. You could have had a massive mudpie from the plane of Ooze land on you, or absolutely anything, in the entire multiverse of AD&D. Sending a hard demon over is not very nice. It seems to me that your GM wanted to make an example of this chap, because he didn't like wild mages. And it worked too, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. In my experience simply losing a round in combat is bad enough due to a wild surge, there is no need to be vindictive on top. And that is vindictive. I mean, given all the possibilities for what came through that gate, what was the chance of a Type IV demon coming through? Your DM kills players when rolling fumbles? Get a new DM. I'm from the philosophy that a single bad dice roll shouldnt kill unless the player is begging for it. PCs should die when they make mistakes, not just due to bad luck. Although if you are ultra low level thats par for the course, but it sounds like you guys are around level 5+ to me. > > Besides - never heard of prot from evil? :) or dispel magic? or alternate > > reality? or chaos shield? (alternate reality is the best one - puts the > > chance of a wild surge down to 1 in 400, assuming you live at least long > > enough to cast it). > > > It's a pity that one can't always be prepared for random, unpredictable > events. It's also a pity that one can't always have the spells one would > like to get. Thus, our wild mage had been unable to get chaos shield or > alternate reality. We weren't stoked up on spells to fight demons. And > both our clerics, who did have dispel magic, died in the first round. What level were you? > And under other circumstances, the wild mage couldn't always spend several > rounds carefully casting preparatory magic, just so he would be less > likely to accidentally murder us all with his own spell. Well, he can cast chaos shield whenever he needs to power up. And assuming the wild mage has alternate reality, any wild surge he rolls can be negated 95% of the time, assuming he lives to cast it. As you cast alternate reality after the fact, thats not preparatory at all. A wild mage should always have at least one alternate reality memorised if he can - that spell is so damn useful its practically the reason to play a wild mage around level 5. And wild mages have to spend time making sure they don't surge all the time. I know I do with my wild mage character. All mages spend time preparing (assuming they want to live that is) so its not a big deal, allocating a couple of your (extra) wild mage spells to keep the chaos at bay. If you are casting more than one spell at a time (powering up, big fight, whatever) always cast chaos shield first. Its only a level 2 spell. What else are you going to memorise at that level which is wild magic? Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:12:04 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:15 9/05/00 EDT, you wrote: >Here is my estimate of the approximate prevalence of near human races >in the "Known World", "Savage Coast", and "Hollow World" settings of >Mystara: it might help if you phrase things in terms of "there are no no known populations of such and such in such and such a place". For the Hollow World at least which is still largely undeveloped some people might get the wrong impression if you say there are no lupins there, for instance. There could well be lupins there somewhere. >Faenare: Faenare evolved from Aarakocra in the Sylvan Realm and >accompanied the elves to Alfheim. really? >Faenare are found in most of the >moutainous regions of the "Known World". ... although they are still very rare. >Phanaton: Phanatons have two centers of power: One on the Orc's Head >Peninsula and the other on the Isle of Dawn. They are virtually unknown >elsewhere, and are not accepted as "people" in any human or demi-human >lands. would the Thangeioth Archipelago be considered another center of power? >Have I omitted any near human races that should be considered "common" >in the best documented parts of Mystara, or given excessive prominence to >near human races that should be rarer in certain regions? well if you're considering faenare "common" then nearly anything else could be considered "common". shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 01:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>Here is my estimate of the approximate prevalence of near human races >>in the "Known World", "Savage Coast", and "Hollow World" settings of >>Mystara: How precisely are you defining "near human?" I basically agree with Shawn's comments, and I'd say that, even if the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago isn't considered a center of Phanaton power, it should be mentioned at least as having a phanaton presence. Some other possible "near-humans" could include manscorpions, aranea, enduks, hutaakans, mugumba mud-dwellers, and the lizard-kin, but perhaps there's a reason for not including them. And a lot of the races from PC1, 2, and 3 would also qualify as near human, but maybe I'm just not clear on the meaning of the term. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:56:00 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How precisely are you defining "near human?" > Follow the link and see under "Fact #1" - http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-jarjartruth.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:19:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <<> Let's take law and justice. Okay, the Alphatian laws and sytem of justice > aren't fair and just. Who said they should be? All I know is that folks go around claiming they are. . .>> Well, I don't. Thus, I agree with you here. Contrary to what it may have appeared to be, my posts weren't meant to systematically contradict your view, but to expose mine. It meant contradicting your view on occasion, and supporting it on others. <<> The laws are aimed at > maintaining order, keeping the aristocracy in power. As I myself said, using almost the same words (ok, I used "maintaining the status quo", the same phrase found in the PGTA, instead of "maintaining order")>> Yep. I was actually approving/acknowledging what you said. <<> Justice isn't fair, it's biased toward the aristocracy. That's not justice as such, then - that's laws, and rules, but not justice.>> Well, we don't know the Alphatian word for it, but it would probably not be "justice" but rather "wizard law" IMO ;) <<> Of course, those mundaners, that are treated badly (though, I insist, not > particularly more so than in medieval England), may want to change things to > their advantage, and try to revolt. We should all remember who has the power to portray these things that Herve mentions in Events and the like. And then ask ourselves if the Alphatia depicted here has been the Alphatia/European Union depicted when push comes to shove. See, that's what really. . .vexes me.>> touche... but... <> They did revolt several time recently, in Esterhold (several times) and in Notrion. The pegataurs of Arkan also had a civil rights movements, so they now have access to all classes and not just servants/slaves. In Surshield, the anarchic elements (there's no precision as to their class breakdown, but they can't be all aristocrats can they?) rebelled against the queen's decrees. Of course these examples are all from the surface world remnants, and not from the FCA. Here's one of your examples as to distinctiveness between the two. If this were to happen on the FCA, it would be the revolution (or an attempt). On the surface world, it's an adaptation that drags it further away from the motherland. <> Agreed. That's why a French Revolution is unlikely in Alphatia. Although gentry PCs... <> agreed. but i never argued anything else. <> Because of the mainland's position, the aristos never had to rely on that, fortunately for them. With the FCA it's even less likely to happen. But I'd agree with you. <> That's where, again, I'd make a distinction between FCA and NACE. FCA is pretty safe, and thanks to the SoP can't change (much). NACE *has* changed already. It's had to stick together, whereas old Alphatian habit tend to have people each go their own way. They created a confederation. Slavery has been raised as an issue, and actually several rulers have changed the law of their countries regarding the classes. Nace has a strong military, proportionally stronger and more influencial (politically) than in old alph. If people like Eusebius in Thyatis see things much change, then I wonder what are Favian Vern or Broderick in Nace but the counterparts. And the changes aren't over. Also, I might add, as a consequence of these forced, hasty changes, there is an old guard (the aritocracy that remained on the SW) that has lost a lot of its power in the past half-decade, and is certainly frustrated; we certainly plan to use them to bring more chaos to the situation as they want back was use to be theirs and, in their opinion, should still be. <<> BTW, there certainly are Alphatians who don't agree with their society as it > is, and recognize its flaws. Certainly not all Alphatians are "blithely > unaware" any more than all Thyatians are "insightful". But one can draw useful distinctions between things, where if one area there is a large enough recognition that such persons are treated seriously, wheras in another area they might be looked on as kooks and oddballs who can't see how good things are ("what's this fool talking about? Can't he see we have a utopia? What's with it with this guy and giving the vote to scum? He sounds like some sort of Thyatian sympathizer, trying to undermine perfection.">> Indeed. Though in Nace, as opposed as in Alph/FCA, they have a chance of promoting their view. But what's funny is that, unless I'm mistaken, you don't like either Vern or Broderick. What about Ericall, Asteriela, Gratia, Ramenhotep (all of which are also shakers of sorts, though less radically so)? ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:40:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <> I know. I wasn't arguing that. But you used modern elements elsewhere. <> Yes; though our views aren't one and the same, they aren't diametrically opposed either, and I'm not anymore favorable to some others' utopist view of Alphatia than I'm to your very pessimistic one. I'm sort of in a middle-ground position. That's why I don't know why you're attacking me so vehemently. I certainly countered some of your arguments and interpretations (with more or less success), but I also validated others. <> yes. and i agree with that, too. <> Which is the exact feeling I have about you in regards to me. So I guess it's miscommunication, probably started by the fact that you believed I would be in total opposition to you, which wasn't the case at all. In the instances you think I accused you of making arguments you didn't make, I was merely agreeing with you. <> That wasn't what I was doing, and if it appeared that way then yes I'm sorry. I didn't think you needed help in countering your "worthy opponents", so I merely agreed with you in those instances. Your rants and arguments were long enough that I didn't feel it was necessary to add to it. Apparently, I should have, for I was misunderstood. <> yeah well, I'm partly responsible for making Nace resembling to the EU, though it doesn't mean i want to carry the concept too far, or to make a Mcopy of EU. Some things were inspired by the EU, but as you know others were inspired by the US, and for the most part it is neither because it just isn't the RW. The Nace has its own life. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 10:57:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> That's why I don't know why you're attacking me so vehemently. I certainly countered some of your arguments and interpretations (with more or less success), but I also validated others. << I'm not attacking you because of your views - the reason(s) why I got vexed at you had nothing to do with your points, but more to do with. . .other things - such as the fact that you chose to attack me, more or less. > > <> > > Which is the exact feeling I have about you in regards to me. So I guess it's > miscommunication, probably started by the fact that you believed I would be in > total opposition to you, which wasn't the case at all. In the instances you > think I accused you of making arguments you didn't make, I was merely agreeing > with you. > But it was written, by you, to certainly not seem like that ("this is why you {meaning me} come to odd conclusions" doesn't sound like a missive of agreement and concord). But see the end of this message. > > That wasn't what I was doing, and if it appeared that way then yes I'm sorry. > Ok. Accepted. Anyhow, the miscommunication point is a good one, I don't think I'm solely to blame but I'll accept my share of the responsibility for that and apologize for my part in that. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:04:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: A & T: Romantic Views MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <> Touch�. So far you're not too rude ;) <> True enough. And you can't complain you didn't get my support in trying to revert that view by finally initiating the recovery. [I won't go into detail here so as not to spoil anything for anyone who might be reading.] You know for example I supported the annexation of Minrothad, or the initiation of an economic turn. You also know which side I'd prefer to win the crown war. <> Well, but the Alphatians did get unjustly blasted by the doomsday device ;) Seriously though, I planned for Thyatis to fall to the bottom and clean the dust so they could rebuild on a good basis. And a contrario, I planned to have Nace have a rapid recovery (the alternative was their disintegrating and being absorbed by Thy and Hks; Thy feared not being absorbed during the course of its disintegration), and then have big problems due to its recovering so rapidly and without establishing good foundations first. Your arrival in the almanac team precipitated this by about one year from the timeframe I had in mind. So yes, Alphatians will face trouble. <> I didn't realize you needed my support there. I thought my exposing my take on alphatian society was enough to show I didn't support a romantic view of life in Alphatia (for the 80% that aren't aristos, that is, and 20% of very happy people in a medieval society is not so bad a result though IMO). So, now I'm saying it out loud, I don't think the mundaners are happy, far from it. But I don't agree with your view that they are hopelessly oppressed either; I think they have a hard life and can be the subject of the unjust whims of the aristos, but for the most part they aren't particularly much worse than their RW medieval counterparts, and are mostly left unannoyed by the aristos because they don't care about them enough to notice them and punish them that much. <> I was refering to something you said in a post on the MML, not your work on the MA, that seemed like a romantic view to me. Basically you said that the slaves in Thy would be listened to by the senators, because they represented them since the senate is elected democratically. That is a romantic interpretation of thy democracy IMO. But if I misread your post (it's possible, I read fast), then my bad. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:06:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Nice Darokin (was Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > << Darokin isn't my favourite nation I must admit > because the place > > is just > > too > > darned nice... >> > BTW, anyone who thinks Darokin is too "nice" can > should take a look at my > Houses of Darokin series (available at Shawn's > site). As well as at my "Another Look at Darokin" article, available in Tome of Mystara #2, or at my site. It offers some campaign ideas for a "not-so-nice" side of the Republic. Jenn http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:14:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Guns and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <<> (replying on the public forum to a message that was sent to me personally) Which is kind of a gauche, tactless thing to do, because if I had thought this discussion belonged on the MML - and I made it very clear that in my opinion it didn't - I'd have posted it there.>> Maybe it was, but I'm a lazy person, and didn't bother to cut and past and repost what I wanted to post to the MML, which was most of it because it explained my take on Alphatia on several points. I didn't think any of it would be annoying for you, and didn't bother to reread and check (though from what I see, I still don't see it). Since the MML digest didn't come but was delayed by one day, I received your direct reply but didn't know what you were replying on the MML, so I just cced the whole thing to the MML). I for once didn't see your notice that you wanted to take that to private mail until only today (many days off in addition to the digest delays). So maybe it was gauche and offensive, and for that I apologize. <> I did compare it to other things as well, though. But you do score one. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:37:10 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Guns and Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I didn't think any of it would be annoying for you, << Ok, well, I had in the past made it pretty clear when others did it that I didn't like that sort of thing (I was polite about it then - Jens can say if I was otherwise - simply saying that "please don't do that"), and I thought folks would get the point. But they didn't. Ok, I guess you might not have been aware of that, but I still kind of expected better net-ettiquette. > So maybe it was gauche and offensive, and for that I apologize. > Appology accepted, Admiral Needah (*not* "Captain Needah" as that guy quotes in one of the recent TD articles; it's one of my favorite quotes, too.) Anyhow, now you've stumbled across one of the main reasons why I got miffed. Appology accepted, though (and no, I won't use "The Dark Side of the Force" to try and choke you 8-)~. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:56:06 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Indeed. Though in Nace, as opposed as in Alph/FCA, they have a chance of promoting their view. But what's funny is that, unless I'm mistaken, you don't like either Vern or Broderick. What about Ericall, Asteriela, Gratia, Ramenhotep (all of which are also shakers of sorts, though less radically so)? << Ok, lets take these one by one: First Caviat: I'm not blaming you for any of these characters, and what I'm going to say about them will focus more on how they appeared/were portrayed in official TSR publications than in net/fan materiel, including the MAs. Of the lot, Broderick was portrayed in a very idealized fashion. This isn't nessissarily bad, because a fantasy world needs heroic types. BUT I think he was given way too prominent a role in mage-happy Alphatian areas (and that did carry over into the MAs, actually). Vern, on the other hand: appeared from out of nowhere to become a radical reformer, with no real "foreshadowing" - he shows up so that he can appear at the head of the Jennite revolt and make sure they stay within the "Alphatian Family", not because it is realistic that the Jennites would want to have *anything* to do with the Alphatians once they threw off the yoke, but because it's benificial for the Alphatians (who can't be allowed to suffer any real losses, which brings us to a minor but important asside): The revolt in Esterhold is often pointed to as a "problem" the surface portion of Alphatia has faced - but if it is, then it was a problem without consiquences (until some unknown person encouraged consiquences) - except insofar as those consiquences could be scripted as benificial (now instead of discontented Jennites, we'll have Jennites who are contented "Alphatian Citizens," whatever that is). Lets just take the economic consiquences, lets start first with destruction - it's often asked of me "well, X is going to cause problems down the road, what with how much it costs" - well, in Blackrock, the place was fought over back and forth, there were street battles in Skyfyr seemingly every other week and the place changed hands. . .lets see, I counted it up once, but now I've forgotten, but I think it was five times. . .with heavy fighting and use of "boom" magics each time. Plus then the Jennites were "liberated", and I doubt they'd then say "ok, sounds great - now we'll go back to the mines and Alphatian-owned plantations that we hated", so there'd be economic dislocation ("we aint goin back, or if we do you'll have to pay us *lots*), all of which were ignored - everything seemed to return to the status-quo ante immediately, except that now the "most obvious blight" that the author couldn't pretend otherwise about (as in the rest of Alphatia) had been swept away. OtoH, consiquences for upheavals in, say, Thyatis are supposed to be continuous, negative, and more permanent. But in Alphatian territories they blithely go on churning out underwater cities and skyships as if they were built in a factory assembly line, under the assumption that there's no setback. And Esterhold is just the most obvious example (the major market for the raw materiels of the now-NACE areas, as well as source of the vast majority of "finished goods" up and vanishes one day, and it's almost like nothing happened - theres some minor dislocation perhaps, but it would have been an economic catastrophy. Its like if Germany, France, Great Britain, and Italy suddenly vanished from the EU but everyone else went on like nothing happened.) Ramenhotep: I wouldn't exactly put him in the "kindly reformer" catagory. Not my interpretation of the dude. Sure, he's not a catspaw of Aketheti, but that's about all you can say about him. Otherwise, he's more "real" - not afraid to use nasty means (swarms of undead/necromancy plus the Mystaran equivilent of biowarfare on civilians) to get his way. Incongruous, though, as the MML (briefly) discussed in some earlier posts is how he then meekly joins the New Alphatian Empire. If the guy dreams of ruling the entire Isle of Dawn and is half way there, plus getting his finger on one of the more important places in the region (the island of Aeria), all making them more-or-less beholden to him, why give up that dominance just to become a peer of the same guys who's {fundiments} he "saved" and who he wishes to subordinate? No explanation was given or offered for that one - so the conclusion "have to script what benifits Alphatians most" is the only logical one. Again, to repeat what I said at the top of this mail, I'm not blaming you for that, I'm just saying it's "odd". Now a reason for his otherwise inexplicable behavior has to be found. Asteriela & Galatia: Remember where they come from. Remember where they spent the "formative years of their lives". Yes, they're "infected" and "tainted" with a lot of strange, un-Alphatian views on certain things. Gratia: Had to be given the character/outlook she had so that the Alphatians would come off looking *good* about Esterhold. Was then almost completely dropped from the plotline in favor of the newly-invented Favian Vern character (what kind of name is "Favian" anyhow?) 'Nuff said. Ericall: In DotE & the PWAs he comes across less as a "reformer" than as a guy who's just trying to get by. So, lets mention another Alphatian: Zandor: Goes from evil, dangerous sociopath (in DotE) to the most cartoonish "villian" of the PWAs - this so he can do what was needed (bring all the scattered Alphatian places under one rule) without any harm (Zandor-initiated campaigns of conquest are about as bloodless and costless as they come), and then be removed from the stage once he's no longer "needed" so we can have "benign Alphatia" in one of the more ??? plot devices. . .well, "no muss, no fuss". Now I *do* have to say something about the MAs, where Memnonic Crystals then go from being a plot mechanism to eliminate Zandor without trouble, and thus a substance magic-users avoid like the plague, to being a way for Alphatians (only!) to use to be able to cast any spell anywhere in the Hollow World. Reason I bring that up? No reason, I guess. I'm just strange and incomprehensible. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 12:02:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > setback. And Esterhold is just the most obvious example (the major market > for the raw materiels of the now-NACE areas, as well as source of the vast > majority of "finished goods" up and vanishes one day, and it's almost like > nothing happened - theres some minor dislocation perhaps, but it would have > been an economic catastrophy. Its like if Germany, France, Great Britain, > and Italy suddenly vanished from the EU but everyone else went on like > nothing happened.) > Clarification: by this (the "major market" disapearing) I meant the continent of Alphatia. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:08:14 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let this thread be a chance to "ask Dr. Stupid" to explain whatever might puzzle you about MA 1016's Thyatis-related events. (btw, so no one gets confused, *I'm* "Dr Stupid"). I'm going to start off with some stuff in response to Herve on this subject, first. ---------- >> True enough. And you can't complain you didn't get my support in trying to revert that view by finally initiating the recovery. [I won't go into detail here so as not to spoil anything for anyone who might be reading.] You know for example I supported the annexation of Minrothad, or the initiation of an economic turn. You also know which side I'd prefer to win the crown war. << No, I can't complain about that, too much. But as I said in an earlier post, I had to struggle against someone's objections every step of the way - not always the same someone - and mostly I had to do so single-handedly (I guess possibly because, like you said in a post regarding these current MML threads, you "didn't think you needed help in countering your 'worthy opponents'." Well, that might be - I'm a very good (or at least tenacious) advocate for my positions, but OtoH had you stepped in earlier than you usually did, some of the things that got out of hand might not have. >> Well, but the Alphatians did get unjustly blasted by the doomsday device ;) << That reminds me of a joke I posted last week which you might not have caught (it was in a "Glantri" thread): Question: "What do you call several hundred thousand Alphatians sunken below the ocean?" Flaemish Response: "A good start." Pro-Alphatian Designer's Response: "An excuse for them to dominate the ocean depths, too." Question: "What do you call five million Alphatians vanished into the Hollow World?" Flaemish Response: "Good riddance." Pro-Alphatian Designer's Response: "An excuse for them to dominate the Hollow World, too." >> Your arrival in the almanac team precipitated this by about one year from the timeframe I had in mind. << Ok, here are the reasons I advocated that, which some might not be aware of and for others who read them when I gave them at the time they might have gotten lost in a bunch of other debris: 1) So whatever recovery occured wouldn't come out of the blue when it came. I didn't like things that seemed to pop out of nowhere and have instant effects elsewhere, and it wasn't simply because of who they benifited or seemed to benifit. Given the other events that happened in AC 1016, I wanted "positive" things to start in motion at the begining of the year - which also tied in with rationales for the "negative" thing (support for the Crown War among various segments of the society being explained as a reaction to some of the changes that were started earlier). Also, IMO the "Economica/DDC report" in the AC 1016 Almanac provides a very good explaination of things (I donno who wrote that section last year, but I really thought what they wrote re. Thyatis got things spot on) - that report in essence says that there are signs a recovery in Thyatis is possible and promising, but there were setbacks &tc. Rather than a smooth process, a turbulent one where people made mistakes (I.E. in JA), learned from them, but made some other miscalculations - but they're on the "right path", just not far along it yet. 2) Given what was originally planned, I think I had cause to fear that if I didn't work fast there wouldn't be much of a Thyatis to "recover" later on - especially given what was planned with respect to Aegos, Thyatian territories on the IoD (major land-grabs by others), what I had heard about what someone was suggesting with regard to the Pearl islands (and, seemingly, Emerond in Davania as well. The joke I have about "NACE discovers the Earth from the module Immortal Storm. Earth immediately petitions to join NACE" becoming more and more apt all the time). Anyhow, Point #1 was the most important "IC/believable scripting" factor - before a process finishes, it has to begin somehow, with the difficulties along the way blended-in. Otherwise it becomes a bit too trite, which is what I object too about the last PWAs' Alphatia-related events. Anyhow, the Doctor is In if anyone else has something they're puzzled about or want explained or just need to get off your chest. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:15:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Elven subraces of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This was based from PC1 (not verbatim though) which does have similarities to Earth lore. In the beginning dreams and reality were one. As time progressed, they separated. Some elves chose to live on Mystara, others chose to live in the dreams. Besides elves there were other fey as well, like spites and pixies for example. Side note. In the beginning as reality was very thin. Magic at this time was very powerful and could forge reality in its purest form. As time progressed, reality was more substantial. There were more rigid rules for wielding the powers of magic, and those that defied these rules could risk creating "wild surges". ciao, Joaquin -- On Mon, 8 May 2000 22:38:23 Jacob Skytte wrote: >> The true elves that live in the dreams of humans have different powers per say than elves existing in the real world.< > >Say what? What are these "true elves that live in the dreams of humans"? Is this from PC1 or something? Never heard of them... > >Jacob Skytte >scythe@wanadoo.dk > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:24:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Nice Darokin (was Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that the "nice Darokin" is a ruse, and all of you fell for it!! ^__^ You all succumbed to the masterminds of diplomacy. Here is one way to look at Darokin. They are a financially oriented people. Many times this view can be quite dispassionate in the face of others. Profit has no moralities, no good, no evil. Many times people suffer. Thus Darokin can seem quite evil depending on the circumstance. If there is friction such as trade rights from other nations and diplomatic sabotage, I think Darokin would act in kind in the most efficient and ruthless manner. Only the victor is remembered in history, and Darokin did not get to where they are by being nice. Thus I imagine many behind the scenes activities against possible competitors. Remember that in GAZ1, it states somewhere that initially Karameikos could be perceived as a threat. Karameikos (Traldara) was rich in resources, but not organized. They could have been organized into a force unfavorable disposed to Darokin or Thyatis at this time. Both nations, according to GAZ1, were considering invading Karameikos, but Thyatis took the lead. As Thyatis was in good relations and not considered a threat, Darokin was more or less content with the results (seeing that they didn't launch their own campaign in competition with Thyatis). -- On Tue, 9 May 2000 09:06:35 Jennifer Guerra wrote: >> > << Darokin isn't my favourite nation I must admit >> because the place >> > is just >> > too >> > darned nice... >> > >> BTW, anyone who thinks Darokin is too "nice" can >> should take a look at my >> Houses of Darokin series (available at Shawn's >> site). > >As well as at my "Another Look at Darokin" article, >available in Tome of Mystara #2, or at my site. It >offers some campaign ideas for a "not-so-nice" side of >the Republic. > >Jenn >http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ >http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:42:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: The Dark Shire Halflings. Can't live with 'em, can't throw them to the Cestian Gobbler fast enough. They are so sweet, so cherubic, it makes me sick sometimes. I decided to do something about it, before it was too late. I bring you: The Dark Shire. 'Tis said that the land of the Hin is bountiful and full of life, of pleasant meadows, babbling brooks, and cheerful villages populated with smiling, fat, contented halflings. Each of the Five Shires is filled with secrets wondrous, and, occasionally, perilous. 'Tis a lie. There are six Shires - no one talks about "the other one" - the Dark Shire. No Hin will tell an outlander where the Dark Shire lies, where its borders extend, or even whether it lies on this plane, or under the sea, or underground. All that is known, is that it is filled with everything the other shires are not, and its people exhibit those qualities the Hin never show to outsiders. Nasty buggers, all of 'em! ****** Coming soon (maybe) - a campaign setting that portrays halflings the way we *want* them to be - so that your players will feel justified in looting, burning, and rampaging their way across evil Hin-infested lands. Go ahead, share it with your players - they'll thank you for it.... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:50:41 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia and Stonewall as a case-study. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> So, now I'm saying it out loud, I don't think the mundaners are happy, far from it. But I don't agree with your view that they are hopelessly oppressed either; I think they have a hard life and can be the subject of the unjust whims of the aristos, but for the most part they aren't particularly much worse than their RW medieval counterparts, and are mostly left unannoyed by the aristos because they don't care about them enough to notice them and punish them that much. << Well, whether we like it or not, we also have to admit that in most of "KW Mystara" folks don't have it nearly as bad as in IRL medieval kingdoms (serfdom's right out in Karameikos, Darokin doesn't have serfs. I guess there might be serfs in Glantri. No serfs in Thyatis but there are lots of slaves. Seemingly no serfs in Minrothad, Ierendi, or the Five Shires. All the Northman Kingdoms except Ostland got rid of Thralldom, and Ostland did during the post-WotI era also, to "become a modern nation"). So to the degree to which Alphatia is more realistically like IRL medieval nations they're *unlike* the rest of Mystara. Not that I'm saying I mind that from a gaming standpoint - quite the opposite, indeed. But from an "IC standpoint" of someone who's in the Mystaran universe observing Mystaran places, Alphatia seems like a "throwback to an earlier era" (so does Thyatis, too, though IMO to a bit lesser degree in some ways - the highly developed magical talents "offset" this otherwise backward condition, though, in Alphatia). But anyhow, time to compare Alphatia by another measure, and that is to compare it of itself, without reference to outside "measurements." Here's what a prominent noted Alphatian says of the status of non-spellcasting Alphatians, in his "own words" - ". . .here, in Alphatian lands, do you know what you are?" His expression turned serious, unfriendly. "You are the spittle on the sidewalk. You do not rule any person or any land. You do not know the ways of magic. You serve another. This makes you a servant by rank -- you rate barely ahead of a slave, for all the Princess lets you dress nicely." He goes on to say, later on the same page: ". . .This is not any land you know. Learn its ways and you may have more power than you have ever concieved. Fail -- or annoy those who would help you -- and the best you can hope for, the most merciful fate, is to serve those who have power, to serve and drudge until the miserable end of your miserable life." ("Terari", aka Tylion IV, who would know about Alphatia). DotE, Player's Guide to Alphatia, p.3. Now, Tylion IV is, to me, one of the more sympathetic of Alphatian characters. He doesn't pull any punches here or try to paint a pretty picture of what life is like in Alphatia: either you have power and rule, in which case your life is unimaginably good, or you don't, in which case you're not given any consideration or respect, you're gutterspit (and that's if you're lucky. Imagine what it's like if you're not lucky, if you don't end up with "the best you can hope for, the most merciful fate"?) Now lets look at the quite instructive population distribution on the Alphatian continent. I originally wrote the below in a message I sent to someone via private mail, but I'd like to share it here, too, with some minor edits: Stonewall is a useful benchmark against which to compare the rest of Alphatia, because I'd think that it would be one of the more "popular" Kingdoms among those who like the kinder, gentler side of Alphatia, plus it's inarguably one of the more important of the Kingdoms - but I've always been struck by the apparent lack of interest in it by those who like a more "benign" Alphatia: for instance, almost no "fan-related" material has been created for Stonewall (checking Stan's webpages, there's nothing that describes Stonewall in any way). I don't know, but it's *possibly* this way because putting a stronger emphasis on Stonewall tends to highlight just how un-enlightened the other Kingdoms might be. Stonewall's the smallest Kingdom in geographic size, by far, on the Alphatian mainland (it covers less than 1% of the area of Alphatia! Actually, a little over 00.8% of the total land area of Alphatia), and yet, post WotI, it has over 25% of the mainland's population (and, even pre-WotI, it was still over 20% of the population)! That's a higher population density than in the Thyatian mainland! It's capital is the largest city in Alphatia. Why do so many people live in this one area, which doesn't seem all that good, geographically and climate-wise. The best climate in Alphatia is probably in the south and around the Aaslan Gulf, which is sheltered from storms, and Stonewall sits in a rocky, hilly area that probably doesn't have *nearly* the best agricultural land in Alphatia - which, again, is probably in the southern and central parts of Alphatia - Haven, Veritloch except the swamps, and the vast plains of the southeastern Kingdoms. Stonewall is hilly, rocky, probably swept by frigid storms comming out of Norwold, and isolated by a mountain range that forms a stone wall between it and the rest of Alphatia. Why do so many people live in Stonewall compared to the other Alphatian kingdoms? Veritloch's high pre-WotI population can be explained by the presence of the Imperial government and the population needed to support it, feed it, etc. But Stonewall doesn't have that administrative function, and the functions Stonewall performs for the Empire can be done almost anywhere, and wouldn't fully explain the extreme population density of that Kingdom. IMO, there's a very good answer, but it doesn't speak well of conditions in most of Alphatia for "average normal persons". The sparse description of Stonewall in the DM Sourcebook provides the explanation - laws here are even-handed, descrimination against non-mages is absent except among "non-natives" of Stonewall. The description of it in the "Player's Guide to Alphatia" makes it sound almost like a Thyatian dominion (friendly to fighters and thieves, large number of clerical orders, etc.) - note that the mages of Alphatia seem to avoid living in this place, but it seems anyone else who *can* move, moves here - to the point where the place is over-crowded, especially compared to the sparsely-inhabbited remainder of Alphatia (post-WotI population density in the Alphatian Continent as a whole is 2.58 persons per square mile. Population density in Stonewall is over 30 times higher, at a whopping 83.94 persons per square mile. Population density of Alphatia minus Stonewall and its population is 1.92 persons per square mile - so this means that Stonewall really has a population density over 40 times higher than the rest of the Alphatian continent). Mundaners who can seem to go to Stonewall ASAP, despite the over-crowding. Could it be to escape harsh conditions in the rest of Alphatia? Conversely, from the point of view of the bulk (99.2% by land area) of Alphatia, Stonewall is very a-typical of Alphatia, and has been "contained" in the smallest, most isolated part of Alphatia (cut off from the rest by the large range of the Keothar Mountans), like its under some sort of quarantine, and seems un-liked by the mages who rule Alphatia (few of them live there because few of them like how things are run in Stonewall). Seems like a potential hotbed of friction, almost. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:07:44 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Anyhow, Point #1 was the most important "IC/believable scripting" factor - before a process finishes, it has to begin somehow, with the difficulties along the way blended-in. Otherwise it becomes a bit too trite, which is what I object too about the last PWAs' Alphatia-related events. << In the putting out fires before they begin category: I clarify that by PWAs' I meant the last couple PWAs, not nessissarily the MAs - though I've brought up points where I quibble about those, too. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:15:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: The Dark Shire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Halflings. Can't live with 'em, can't throw them to the Cestian Gobbler fast enough. They are so sweet, so cherubic, it makes me sick sometimes. I decided to do something about it, before it was too late. << I always knew there was a reason I liked Mr. Gander. Now I know. 8-) > > Coming soon (maybe) - a campaign setting that portrays halflings the way we *want* them to be - so that your players will feel justified in looting, burning, and rampaging their way across evil Hin-infested lands. Go ahead, share it with your players - they'll thank you for it....<< More, more! ! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:23:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 9 May 2000 13:08:14 -0500 James Ruhland writes: > Question: "What do you call several hundred thousand Alphatians > sunken > below the ocean?" > > Flaemish Response: "A good start." > > Pro-Alphatian Designer's Response: "An excuse for them to dominate > the > ocean depths, too." > I'd like to interject here. If I have my way, Alphatia will _not_ dominate the ocean depths. I have plans. If I thought the ideas would make it into the MA, people would be afraid to even sail over the sunken continent. Some of my initial ideas (which were never sent to the AS group, as I saw the course the general consensus wanted events to take) had Aquas being sacked by a hostile force in 1017. If the MA were my campaign, in 1017 NACE would fall into a bloody civil war that would shatter it irrepairably, and there would never again be a united "Alphatia" on the surface. I know that that won't happen. My adding Underocean into NACE was created as a plot device to create strifefor both UO and NACE. Not to let NACE "dominate the ocean depths". End interjection. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 14:50:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: World Domination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I'd like to interject here. < < > > If I have my way, Alphatia will _not_ dominate the ocean depths. I have plans. << It's a joke, dude, it wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. That's why it was labeled as a joke. As far as I know, there are no current plans to have Alphatia dominate the HW, either. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:34:50 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia and Stonewall as a case-study.] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [James' description of Stonewall snipped] This is good. I really like your take on Stonewall, and it definitely see= ms consistent with what (little) we know of the region. Very interesting... = maybe the Stonewallians play host to a bunch of dirty Thyatis sympathizers, and= are disliked even more strongly for it? :) ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:35:45 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Testers wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any takers? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:11:44 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wizards Shopper wrote: > > Rakasta: Rakastas are rare and reclusive in the "Known World" (at least > until the war between Hule and the Master drove Domestic Rakasta refugees > from Sind and Akesoli into other parts of Darokin), and quite common along > the "Savage Coast". Ancestor Rakastas are common races in the "Hollow > World". > Rakastas are also common in Davania and Skothar, and in Ochalea too. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:51:53 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: Testers wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Goliath Online. Just tell me how to get it. And how many GPs I'll get for it... ;-) vini. Eyal Fleminger wrote: > > I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for > testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any > takers? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:56:07 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Testers wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello Eyal At 23:35 9/05/00 IDT, you wrote: >I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for >testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any >takers? I'll test it, and I'll be happy to host it as well. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:55:34 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia andStonewall as a case-study.] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >[James' description of Stonewall snipped] > >This is good. I really like your take on Stonewall, and it definitely seems >consistent with what (little) we know of the region. Very interesting... maybe >the Stonewallians play host to a bunch of dirty Thyatis sympathizers, and are >disliked even more strongly for it? :) I like it to. Although I'd say that it will have major problems surviving in the HW, and its population should be shrinking rapidly as its inhabitants are forced to move, primarily to Vertiloch and the Imperial Territories (formerly Zandoria, whatever they're called now) in order to survive. In the HW Alphatia should find itself more in need of these people for farming than ever before. And if the King Dracodon were to refuse to cooperate, he would soon find the rest of the country unwilling to sell food to Draco or finance the army there. he'll either cooperate in the single greatest mass-migration of Alphatian history since Landfall, he'll lose his dominion to rebellion, or he'll invade Haven. And it looks like Stonewall didn't invade Haven.... Actually, I'd say the commoners paradise in HW Alphatia should be Ar, since next to no mages would be willing to go there except those unfortunate enough to have to travel by land to Starpoint. Since Ar has the best-established agricultural system of the continent (except, perhaps, for Bettelyn, which will still need most of its produce to feed Citadel) it will provide some great opportunities for commoners to better themselves, especially any who own their homes or, better yet, their farms. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:15:07 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: The Dark Shire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do you guys remember "Carnival of the Bizarre"... hum... no, no. What's the name? anyway, the adventure in wich Goblins were not evilena not dirty. They were the same people, same genes, but totally diferent in mannes, for amog them there was a noble human and stuff. It was presented in "Creative Campaigning". Very creative, indeed. Good adventure, good surprise for "Humanoids: chaaaaaaarge!" players. and, of course, good book. the guys were called "Renaissance Goblins". The adventure - yes! - was called "Strange Renaissance". I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. vini. James Ruhland wrote: > > > > Halflings. Can't live with 'em, can't throw them to the Cestian > Gobbler fast enough. They are so sweet, so cherubic, it makes me sick > sometimes. I decided to do something about it, before it was too late. << > > I always knew there was a reason I liked Mr. Gander. Now I know. 8-) > > > > Coming soon (maybe) - a campaign setting that portrays halflings the > way we *want* them to be - so that your players will feel justified in > looting, burning, and rampaging their way across evil Hin-infested lands. > Go ahead, share it with your players - they'll thank you for it....<< > > More, more! ! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:21:27 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia andStonewall as a case-study.] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I like it to. Although I'd say that it will have major problems surviving > in the HW, and its population should be shrinking rapidly as its inhabitants > are forced to move, primarily to Vertiloch and the Imperial Territories > (formerly Zandoria, whatever they're called now) in order to survive. ? I thought the point of the HW was that cultures were in general preserved. If Stonewall is as an important a place in Alphatia as suggested, should it not be kept that way? Alphatia is in the Museum of the Gods now... Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:10:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Testers wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i'll be happy to have it and put it on my site, please send it to tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Vinicius R. de Moraes a �crit: > Goliath Online. > Just tell me how to get it. And how many GPs I'll get for it... ;-) > vini. > > Eyal Fleminger wrote: > > > > I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for > > testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any > > takers? > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:12:16 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: The Dark Shire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Yea i know them , i like most of their tunes but i find some others too loud!!! Vinicius R. de Moraes a �crit: > Do you guys remember "Carnival of the Bizarre"... hum... no, no. What's > the name? anyway, the adventure in wich Goblins were not evilena not > dirty. They were the same people, same genes, but totally diferent in > mannes, for amog them there was a noble human and stuff. It was > presented in "Creative Campaigning". > Very creative, indeed. Good adventure, good surprise for "Humanoids: > chaaaaaaarge!" players. and, of course, good book. the guys were called > "Renaissance Goblins". The adventure - yes! - was called "Strange > Renaissance". > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > > vini. > > James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > Halflings. Can't live with 'em, can't throw them to the Cestian > > Gobbler fast enough. They are so sweet, so cherubic, it makes me sick > > sometimes. I decided to do something about it, before it was too late. << > > > > I always knew there was a reason I liked Mr. Gander. Now I know. 8-) > > > > > > Coming soon (maybe) - a campaign setting that portrays halflings the > > way we *want* them to be - so that your players will feel justified in > > looting, burning, and rampaging their way across evil Hin-infested lands. > > Go ahead, share it with your players - they'll thank you for it....<< > > > > More, more! ! > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:42:28 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Thiesen wrote: >> This is good. I really like your take on Stonewall, and it definitely seems consistent with what (little) we know of the region. Thanks. >> Very interesting... maybe the Stonewallians play host to a bunch of dirty Thyatis sympathizers, and are disliked even more strongly for it? :) << Yes, I always figured that of all the places "on the other side", the Thyatians and Stonewallers would probably get on the best, and it's possible that there are dudes in Draco who think that the Alphatians could "learn a thing or two about how to run an Empire from the Thyatians." Rob Wrote: > > I thought the point of the HW was that cultures were in general preserved. If Stonewall is as an important a place in Alphatia as suggested, should it not be kept that way? << Well, we normally agree but here I think I'd have to agree in part with Patrick (but see below for my caviats) - you hit the nail on the head whe you said "cultures in general" - that means that Stonewall can't be utterly depopulated, or it's essential nature changed beyond recognition, but it wouldn't prevent the sort of thing Patrick suggested. But other things would put obsticles in the way of that (again, see below). > > I like it to. Although I'd say that it will have major problems surviving in the HW, and its population should be shrinking rapidly as its inhabitants are forced to move, primarily to Vertiloch and the Imperial Territories (formerly Zandoria, whatever they're called now) in order to survive. << The problems shouldn't be overlooked (the primary one probably being that before Stonewall probably made much of its livelyhood off the sea: fisheries and whatnot, and also importing grain - actually, if you think about it, Stonewall is probably the only Alphatian mainland country that really would have *needed* the "bread-basket" of Bellissaria - the others aren't so densely populated that imports would be needed to feed people. However, a lot of other Alphatian places have the "rim problem" - all these formerly coastal towns and cities that now lack a reason to be on the edge of the continent, except that it's a handy way to execute criminals - just shove 'em over the edge - but you can do that lots of places, but you don't want children stumbling off that "cliff" - it's a long drop). I'm not sure they'd have to specifically move to any given Kingdom (such as the examples you gave), though there'd certainly be opportunities in the Kingdom where the new capital is (Zandoria/Jafilia/etc). But I'm not sure you'd get many people vollenteering to go right off. . . > than ever before. And if the King Dracodon were to refuse to cooperate, he would soon find the rest of the country unwilling to sell food to Draco or finance the army there. << And I'm sure he could find a way to make the army "pay as it goes" if needed (shades of Gustavus Adolphus in Germany, anyone?) Plus, he then stops paying Imperial Taxes (there's a sudden 25% budget cut for the Empire's own forces. . .) > he'll either cooperate in the single greatest mass-migration of Alphatian history since Landfall, he'll lose his dominion to rebellion, or he'll invade Haven. And it looks like Stonewall didn't invade Haven....<< But if issued such an ultimatum, he probably would. Actually, if the rest of Alphatia issued that sort of ultimatum to Stonewall, it's much more likely that the Kingdom would rally around him than that he'd lose it to rebellion ("what? They insist that I go back? I'm never going back to that place except as part of the Royal Army! We'll teach those blighters, once and for all!) This is where you get that friction. Remember, making war on, and even absorbing entire, Alphatian Kingdoms is legal under Alphatia's system. If the rest of Alphatia, largely "uninterested in military matters", wants to pick on the most heavily populated place that *is* interested in military matters (or at least has a goodly number of fighter types), then they're just requesting problems (especially since, IMO, of *all* the Alphatian Kingdoms, Haven is probably the least interested in military matters/warlike). And Stonewall might find allies - or at least people who wouldn't bother getting involved. Denwarf-Hurgon would probably decide they don't have a dog in this fight. Limn might see they have a similar problem to Stonewall, and throw in on Stonewall's side. Then it's a matter of containing the problem before it gets out of hand. Stonewallites might participate in the biggest migration seen since the Germanic tribes moved south of the danube and west of the Rhine in the 4th and 5th centuries all right, but with potentially similar consiquences for much of the Empire of Alphatia. Haven, not very well off anyhow since the destruction of its capital and largest city, would probably become "New Stonewall", and the Alphatian Empire would be fractured like the so-called "Holy Roman Empire" was throughout most of the Middle Ages and Renaisance ("sure, we've got an Empress, but that doesn't stand in the way of us slaughtering each other in contentious wars.") Stonewall this might be seen as the "smoke-powder keg of Alphatia". Anyone want to light the match? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:41:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of AlphatiaandStonewall as a case-study.] MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> I like it to. Although I'd say that it will have major problems surviving just to clarify, that was supposed to be "I like it too." >I thought the point of the HW was that cultures were in general preserved. >If Stonewall is as an important a place in Alphatia as suggested, should it >not be kept that way? > >Alphatia is in the Museum of the Gods now... Well, the Immortals seem to have forgotten to move Bellissaria along with Alphatia, so there's gonna be mass starvation in Draco unless they move. And if the SoP means that commoners would sooner sit in Draco and starve than move somewhere where they can get enough food, then Alphatia really isn't going to have any impact on the HW at all, except perhaps for a new shadow pattern. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:02:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: Testers wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Would like to test, but could only recommend a place (site) for it as I have no idea how to make one. --- Eyal Fleminger wrote: > I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for > testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any > takers? > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:15:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of AlphatiaandStonewall as a case-study. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 9 May 2000 13:50:41 James Ruhland wrote: >>> So, now I'm saying it out loud, I don't think the mundaners are happy, >far from it. But I don't agree with your view that they are hopelessly >oppressed either; I think they have a hard life and can be the subject of >the unjust whims of the >aristos, but for the most part they aren't particularly much worse than >their RW medieval counterparts, and are mostly left unannoyed by the >aristos because they don't care about them enough to notice them and punish >them that much. << > > Well, whether we like it or not, we also have to admit that in most of "KW >Mystara" folks don't have it nearly as bad as in IRL medieval kingdoms >(serfdom's right out in Karameikos, Darokin doesn't have serfs. I guess >there might be serfs in Glantri. No serfs in Thyatis but there are lots of >slaves. Seemingly no serfs in Minrothad, Ierendi, or the Five Shires. All >the Northman Kingdoms except Ostland got rid of Thralldom, and Ostland did >during the post-WotI era also, to "become a modern nation"). So to the >degree to which Alphatia is more realistically like IRL medieval nations >they're *unlike* the rest of Mystara. Yes. I don't think that really needs to make them any worse, though... > Not that I'm saying I mind that from a gaming standpoint - quite the >opposite, indeed. But from an "IC standpoint" of someone who's in the >Mystaran universe observing Mystaran places, Alphatia seems like a >"throwback to an earlier era" (so does Thyatis, too, though IMO to a bit >lesser degree in some ways - the highly developed magical talents "offset" >this otherwise backward condition, though, in Alphatia). > Why a 'throwback'? They are unlike other cultures in that they base their empire more on individuality rather than laws. This would work if they were ethical people conscious of the consequences of what they do. We know that's not the case, so Alphatia isn't a perfect society or utopia, but is it really that much worse than the other nations? >But anyhow, time to compare Alphatia by another measure, and that is to >compare it of itself, without reference to outside "measurements." > >Here's what a prominent noted Alphatian says of the status of >non-spellcasting Alphatians, in his "own words" - > (snip DotE quotes) > >Now, Tylion IV is, to me, one of the more sympathetic of Alphatian >characters. He doesn't pull any punches here or try to paint a pretty >picture of what life is like in Alphatia: either you have power and rule, >in which case your life is unimaginably good, or you don't, in which case >you're not given any consideration or respect, you're gutterspit (and >that's if you're lucky. Imagine what it's like if you're not lucky, if you >don't end up with "the best you can hope for, the most merciful fate"?) > Two points here: 1) Yes, Terari is very blunt, and it is an admission on how nasty Alphatia can be. As you say, he is one of the 'nicer' (well, you said 'sympathetic, but that's how I read it) Alphatians, but doesn't that also say something about the Alphatians. I mean, he has a high-ranking position as a teacher of magic in the capital of the empire, and yet he gets away with openly stating things like that. And, yes, he *was* the emperor, but nobody knew that at the time when he made those statements (1,000 AC). 2) Don't you think he *might* have exaggerated just a little - he *was* trying to scare Galatia, after all! >Now lets look at the quite instructive population distribution on the >Alphatian continent. I originally wrote the below in a message I sent to >someone via private mail, but I'd like to share it here, too, with some >minor edits: > Go on, James. You can admit it was to me :) (And I won't mind if you want to quote my comments either). Since we've already discussed this off-list I won't respond again, though... (snip rest) - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:59:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Arminath Wynter Subject: Re: Testers wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this generator for D&D or AD&D? Where did you take the tables from, the Rules Cyclopedia or the AD&D DMG? Jim ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:25:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Savage Coast class breakdown MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-09 7:15:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: << Excellent point regarding multi-classing. I'm not sure about replacing psionicists with sorcerors, though. From what I've seen, they don't seem the sort that would heavily inhabit Gargona and Saragon. >> I had a more general replacement in mind. If you look through the available Savage Coast material, you will see that the psionicist is regarded as a slight variation of the wizard and has most of the same kits available to it. >From that usage it seems natural to conclude that they would have been using sorcerors instead had they been available -- they certainly fit the Mystara setting far better than psionicists do. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:36:12 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-09 8:33:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: << How precisely are you defining "near human?" I basically agree with Shawn's comments, and I'd say that, even if the Eastern Thanegioth Archipelago isn't considered a center of Phanaton power, it should be mentioned at least as having a phanaton presence. Some other possible "near-humans" could include manscorpions, aranea, enduks, hutaakans, mugumba mud-dwellers, and the lizard-kin, but perhaps there's a reason for not including them. And a lot of the races from PC1, 2, and 3 would also qualify as near human, but maybe I'm just not clear on the meaning of the term. >> I use the term in the same sense that it is used in the Red Steel and Savage Coast campaign sets -- humanoid creatures that are not humans, demi-humans, goblinoids, or "unhumans" (such as aranea). From your list, enduks, hutaakans, and mugumba mud-dwellers would clearly qualify as near humans, as would the lizard-kin. I left them out primarily because I considered the information about them to be fairly "complete" -- but they should definitely be mentioned if you think they should be more widespread than the published material indicates. In a message dated 2000-05-09 8:33:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stanles@ALPHALINK.COM.AU writes: << At 02:15 9/05/00 EDT, you wrote: >Here is my estimate of the approximate prevalence of near human races >in the "Known World", "Savage Coast", and "Hollow World" settings of >Mystara: it might help if you phrase things in terms of "there are no no known populations of such and such in such and such a place". For the Hollow World at least which is still largely undeveloped some people might get the wrong impression if you say there are no lupins there, for instance. There could well be lupins there somewhere. >> Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds that were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places not previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has yet "failed" to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, but others may have different ideas. <<>Faenare: Faenare evolved from Aarakocra in the Sylvan Realm and >accompanied the elves to Alfheim. really?>> That one is speculation on my part -- as indeed are most other items that cannot be verified from available sources. <<>Faenare are found in most of the >moutainous regions of the "Known World". ... although they are still very rare.>> Okay. << >Phanaton: Phanatons have two centers of power: One on the Orc's Head >Peninsula and the other on the Isle of Dawn. They are virtually unknown >elsewhere, and are not accepted as "people" in any human or demi-human >lands. would the Thangeioth Archipelago be considered another center of power?>> I am not sure. I take it they are found on the Isle of Dread? How big an area do they seem to occupy? <<>Have I omitted any near human races that should be considered "common" >in the best documented parts of Mystara, or given excessive prominence to >near human races that should be rarer in certain regions? well if you're considering faenare "common" then nearly anything else could be considered "common". >> I would take them to be about as "common" as sky gnomes -- not very numerous in total, but so mobile that they could be flying around nearly anywhere. In a message dated 2000-05-09 4:50:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes: << Rakastas are also common in Davania and Skothar, and in Ochalea too. >> Quite true -- and in fact so are many other races, if we try to detail continents other than Brun. Ochalea, in particular, has ogre magi and several breeds each of lupins and rakastas in addition to the dominant humans -- and I would not be at all surprised if there are quite a few non-lycanthropic shapeshifters (equivalent to hengeyokai) as well. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:36:39 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Why a 'throwback'? They are unlike other cultures in that they base their empire more on individuality rather than laws. This would work if they were ethical people conscious of the consequences of what they do. << It would if they were, but since they aren't. . .well, ethical people with conciences wouldn't have laws saying they can kill any slave at any time for any reason or none. We can debate how often they really do that, but IMO the obvious point is that "nice" people wouldn't set things up so that such a thing could happen at all. >> We know that's not the case, so Alphatia isn't a perfect society or utopia, but is it really that much worse than the other nations? << Well, here we go back to the crux of the earlier exchanges, don't we? Anyhow, I quote Tylion/"Terari" - "This is not Thyatis," he said "This is not any land you know. . ." That much worse? Well, I guess that's for people to decide. In the post you're replying to, I didn't compare Alphatia to any of the other nations - I compared it to itself, using the comments of one of its own former rulers and using one of its own Kingdoms as the basis for drawing conclusions regarding the rest of Alphatia. > > And, yes, he *was* the emperor, but nobody knew that at the time when he made those statements (1,000 AC). << Some people did - we did; point being that we were aware that he knew what he was talking about. >> 2) Don't you think he *might* have exaggerated just a little - he *was* trying to scare Galatia, after all! << Probably he wasn't exagerating all that much - after all, why scare her about that fate if it's no big deal? I mean, if things aren't all that bad for those who don't learn magic, then no need to scare the bejeezus out of Galatia regarding her possible fate if she doesn't succeed. If things aren't that much different from other Mystaran nations, then why point out to her that "this isn't any land you know", and then give her what he thinks is the reason *why* this isn't any land she knows (the power for those who learn magic, the drugery & the misery for those who don't)? This I do find a bit troubling, though, and this isn't meant as a slam against you, but IMO there's a tendency whenever things people don't like about their favorite nation to be quoted to disregard it as an exaggeration or an atypical example, etc. If I tried to argue that with respect to the infamous "Thyatian treachery" or corruption, you wouldn't let me get away with that, I'm sure. But when it comes to Alphatia - every "negative" example tendeds to be dismissed, at least by some, as an aberation or an exageration - but once you collect them all together, IMO rather than being aberations or exagerations, they tend to form a general picture, and fit with each other (is the guy who says, on page 2, that "They treat their slaves as we treat our convicts, and treat their freemen as we treat our slaves. They are often a cruel people" exagerating? What about the guy who on page 3 is quoted as calling Alphatia a "hellish land"? How about the stuff I quoted in previous messages?) Just because I only use one or two of these examples in any one post I make doesn't mean that cumulatively they don't add up. After all, they all tend to be from the same source - different pages and at times even different booklets. But they're all in there, and they can't all be aberant if DotE's aim was to give people an idea of the societys it described. Does DotE give a misleading picture of either or both Empires? I suppose it's possible to argue that, but I'm not *sure* people would argue that about any other Gaz (though I could be wrong. Indeed, I might be happy saying the Five Shires Gaz. gives a misleading impression of that benighted land full of cuthroats and pirates). What does the back of the box (DotE) say about both Empires? People who still have the box DotE came in might want to flip it over and see the synopsis description it gives (pithy, but informative) of them ("Thyatis" and "Alphatia" - about a two sentance description of both). > > Go on, James. You can admit it was to me :) << I figured it didn't matter - not because you don't matter or our mails don't matter (you do and they do), but it didn't bear on the points I was making. >> (And I won't mind if you want to quote my comments either). Since we've already discussed this off-list I won't respond again, though...<< I always prefer to leave it to others to post their own remarks - I mean, it's one thing to quote from portions of something that was already posted in its entirety to the list (so people would have had a chance to read the full remarks, and they can decide for themselves if things are being quoted out of context unfairly), but I wouldn't want to just post your remarks to the list, for that very reason I just gave: you might (and rightly) believe that taking portions, when people haven't seen all your comments in their entirety, would be unfairly distortive. Again, its one thing if they see 'em all, or see them in a way where you decide which ones to include and possibly how to re-phrase, but it's another thing when someone else does it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:13:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-09 6:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Stonewall this might be seen as the "smoke-powder keg of Alphatia". Anyone want to light the match? >> I'd love to! Just think -- the Alphatian Empire would go from potentially dominating the Hollow World despite the Spell of Preservation to surviving only because of it! As for those cliffsides around Alphatia -- is it anywhere clearly stated that the floating continent ends that abruptly? If the floating continent were expanded enough to hold a large ribbon of water around its edges, then life could go on pretty much as before, with sailors being the only ones in danger of death by surprisingly long falls. Otherwise -- can you imagine how scrambled the brains of low level Alphatians who live on the coast must have been when they awoke in the Hollow World, given the unbelievable extent to which their memories must have been altered? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:35:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >As for those cliffsides around Alphatia -- is it anywhere clearly stated that >the floating continent ends that abruptly? If the floating continent were >expanded enough to hold a large ribbon of water around its edges, then >life could go on pretty much as before, with sailors being the only ones in >danger of death by surprisingly long falls. Otherwise -- can you imagine >how scrambled the brains of low level Alphatians who live on the coast >must have been when they awoke in the Hollow World, given the unbelievable >extent to which their memories must have been altered? The first PWA, in the description of Arogansa, says "Now the beaches face open air instead of ocean; there is no telling whether the nation will still be a tourist resort when visitors are more likely to fall off the edge than have a nice swim." I'm pretty sure similar things are said elsewhere, but that seems rather decisive :-) And as for the scrambled brains, what difference does it make? They were mostly commoners anyway (I say attempting to look as much like the immortal Alphatia as possible) ;-P Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:44:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >I use the term in the same sense that it is used in the Red Steel and >Savage Coast campaign sets -- humanoid creatures that are not humans, >demi-humans, goblinoids, or "unhumans" (such as aranea). From your >list, enduks, hutaakans, and mugumba mud-dwellers would clearly >qualify as near humans, as would the lizard-kin. I left them out primarily >because I considered the information about them to be fairly "complete" >-- but they should definitely be mentioned if you think they should be >more widespread than the published material indicates. Well, since the shazaks are basic lizardmen that can be found throughout much of the world (actually only Karameikos, Shazak, Ylaruam (or are they all zombified?), The Serpent Peninsula, and Malpheggi come to mind, but still...) they might be worth covering at least. >I am not sure. I take it they are found on the Isle of Dread? How big an >area do they seem to occupy? I believe there's one phanaton lair that they specifically occupy and is described in the module, but that would seem to imply there are probably more. They are more primitive than their relatives in Jibaru. Lathan's Gold gives no indication of how prevalent they are on the other islands. <> Is this a project you're working on? It seems like this thread has relevance for the Mystara3E project, but you didn't preface it as such (unless I missed it). Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:09:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > <<>Have I omitted any near human races that should be considered "common" > >in the best documented parts of Mystara, or given excessive prominence to > >near human races that should be rarer in certain regions? Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte references in Mystara, are there? Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:40:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> > I thought the point of the HW was that cultures were in general >preserved. If Stonewall is as an important a place in Alphatia as >suggested, should it not be kept that way? << > >Well, we normally agree but here I think I'd have to agree in part with >Patrick (but see below for my caviats) - you hit the nail on the head whe >you said "cultures in general" - that means that Stonewall can't be utterly >depopulated, or it's essential nature changed beyond recognition, but it >wouldn't prevent the sort of thing Patrick suggested. But other things >would put obsticles in the way of that (again, see below). Well, I certainly would agree that Stonewall shouldn't be completely destroyed, but I don't think it could survive as is--it has to either shrink (people die or move away) or expand (Haven's a good start...). >The problems shouldn't be overlooked (the primary one probably being that >before Stonewall probably made much of its livelyhood off the sea: >fisheries and whatnot, and also importing grain - actually, if you think >about it, Stonewall is probably the only Alphatian mainland country that >really would have *needed* the "bread-basket" of Bellissaria - the others >aren't so densely populated that imports would be needed to feed people. I agree, although I'd say it imported a lot more food than it got from fishing. Foresthome (which will likely be right up there with Ar in HW importance) is the only mainland kingdom described as having a fishing industry. I'm sure most of the others have small-scale fishing, and if the HW immortals are worth their salt they'd stock the rivers and lakes of the floating continent, but I don't think any countries except maybe Foresthome could be anywhere near self-sufficient with fishing. But I definitely agree that Stonewall would likely be the primary consumer of Bellisarian foodstuffs. >However, a lot of other Alphatian places have the "rim problem" - all these >formerly coastal towns and cities that now lack a reason to be on the edge >of the continent, except that it's a handy way to execute criminals - just >shove 'em over the edge - but you can do that lots of places, but you don't >want children stumbling off that "cliff" - it's a long drop). I'm not sure >they'd have to specifically move to any given Kingdom (such as the examples >you gave), though there'd certainly be opportunities in the Kingdom where >the new capital is (Zandoria/Jafilia/etc). But I'm not sure you'd get many >people vollenteering to go right off. . . But nowhere else is the problem of poor agricultural land and massive unsustainable population coupled with the sudden loss of the ocean. I think a lot of the coolest possible results of the transfer to the HW have been lost now that it's been 7 years according to the MAs and pretty much nothing's happened. But rather than simply perpetuating the impossible situation, lowering Stonewall's population drastically and raising it somewhat elsewhere (I suggested Vertiloch and Jafilia because Eriadna should see clearly that they are in desperate need of food) where populations seem rather sparse. >And I'm sure he could find a way to make the army "pay as it goes" if >needed (shades of Gustavus Adolphus in Germany, anyone?) Plus, he then >stops paying Imperial Taxes (there's a sudden 25% budget cut for the >Empire's own forces. . .) I'd say that imperial forces should be dramatically reduced pretty quickly. The navy's gone and there aren't even that many surviving airships. A large army is the last thing a stranded island in the sky needs. >> he'll either cooperate in the single greatest mass-migration of Alphatian >history since Landfall, he'll lose his dominion to rebellion, or he'll >invade Haven. And it looks like Stonewall didn't invade Haven....<< >But if issued such an ultimatum, he probably would. > Actually, if the rest of Alphatia issued that sort of ultimatum to >Stonewall, it's much more likely that the Kingdom would rally around him >than that he'd lose it to rebellion ("what? They insist that I go back? I'm >never going back to that place except as part of the Royal Army! We'll >teach those blighters, once and for all!) This is where you get that >friction. Remember, making war on, and even absorbing entire, Alphatian >Kingdoms is legal under Alphatia's system. If the rest of Alphatia, largely >"uninterested in military matters", wants to pick on the most heavily >populated place that *is* interested in military matters (or at least has a >goodly number of fighter types), then they're just requesting problems >(especially since, IMO, of *all* the Alphatian Kingdoms, Haven is probably >the least interested in military matters/warlike). I certainly don't think anyone would issue an ultimatum--it's been given by the immortals. Dracodon has one and a third million people to feed and no more grain coming from Thothia or Bellisaria. It doesn't take that bright a dentist to figure out that he needs a solution. While I wouldn't necessarily oppose the idea of sending massive forces out foraging for halflings and monsters to snack on in their neighboring kingdoms, but if such a thing were going to happen it would've been before now. Haven would've made an even better target for invasion (much as I would've liked to see the entire population of Stonewall hunting halflings) but Mylertendal would probably sooner cast Sleep-Curse on Draco than lose her kingdom to marauding commoners. Plus, again, it didn't happen in the 1010-1011 time period that would've made it most likely. I'm not saying that Eriadna would've told Dracodon that he had to either deport most of his country, die in an uprising, or conquer Haven quickly, it's just that those were the facts confronting Dracodon in 1010. If he didn't conquer anyone, and if there wasn't massive starvation and revolution, then he must've forced massive deportations. No other logical explanation exists for what we have in 1012, much less 1016. > And Stonewall might find allies - or at least people who wouldn't bother >getting involved. Denwarf-Hurgon would probably decide they don't have a >dog in this fight. Limn might see they have a similar problem to Stonewall, >and throw in on Stonewall's side. Then it's a matter of containing the >problem before it gets out of hand. Both countries likely imported food from Bellisaria, and would likely be in similar situations to Stonewall in 1010. I'd suggest that some of the slightly more open countries would accept them as long as they'll work the fields (the three kingdoms of the Imperial family, Haven, and Ar come to mind). > Stonewallites might participate in the biggest migration seen since the >Germanic tribes moved south of the danube and west of the Rhine in the 4th >and 5th centuries all right, but with potentially similar consiquences for >much of the Empire of Alphatia. Haven, not very well off anyhow since the >destruction of its capital and largest city, would probably become "New >Stonewall", and the Alphatian Empire would be fractured like the so-called >"Holy Roman Empire" was throughout most of the Middle Ages and Renaisance >("sure, we've got an Empress, but that doesn't stand in the way of us >slaughtering each other in contentious wars.") Absolutely. Except that it all should've been in 1010. If I ever DM a campaign on Alphatia during WotI, it'll take some massive heroism to stop this kind of slaughter :-) > Stonewall this might be seen as the "smoke-powder keg of Alphatia". Anyone >want to light the match? Again, my biggest disagreement here is that it should've happened in 1010. Since it didn't, there is no longer any pressing reason for it to occur now, since the problem must've been handled somehow. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:15:45 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I think a lot of the coolest possible results of the transfer to the HW have been lost now that it's been 7 years according to the MAs and pretty much nothing's happened. But rather than simply perpetuating the impossible situation << I agree with most of what you said, except these parts that you mentioned in different ways several times. IMO, just because people didn't take good opportunities for so long is no reason to not take them now. One can come up with a couple reasons why a "crisis" might not have been precipitated earlier (I.E. perhaps Stonewall had grain stores - I guess it'd be a reach to say they had seven years worth, but it's a world of reaches. IMO, there have been lots of reaches that have cut short/short-circuited/fizzled potential good plotlines, I'd be much more "forgiving" about reaches that created some or used some of the opportunities that were neglected before). Now the stored grain supply ran out (or is running out), and so the crisis is upon us this year. The FCA never had to be boring in the first place. Not to sound harsh, but just because potential "cool possible results" didn't unfold before for whatever reason isn't an excuse not to do 'em. It just takes some creativity to fix the mistake - and it'd certainly be worth it. I came up with the "silly grain stores idea" on the spur of the moment here, came to me while I was writing my reply. If that can be done in two minutes, I'm sure in two days or two weeks of pondering people could come up with better rationales -- if they wanted to. Just have to be devious. Helps that I'm naturally that way (by the way: I also simply *love* Dirk Dastardly and Muttley. They simply *made* any Hanna-Barbara cartoon they appeared in!). Point is, " it should've happened in 1010" (or 11, or 12, or &tc) is no reason for not getting things right now. If they were, then all my little "talks" here would be a waste of time. Well, I guess that's certainly possible: I might be wasting my time. Plus, what the heck, a Sleep Curse on Draco might be fun, too (though Dracodon and his pals might not be so easily dispatched - if things were that easy, there'd be a lot more Sleep Curse usage in warfare). But at least any of these would be, IMO, better than simply back-dating a migration and saying it's over already. That doesn't really generate interest or adventure oportunities. Then no wonder the FCA is a floating bastion of ennui (reminds me of that Demon of Sloth that infested Avalin, the isle of the High Elves in the Role Aids accessory "Elves", only in this case it induces a stupor among gamers instead of their characters). If people, as Alex pointed out in one of his recent mails, want to keep gamers interested in Alphatia rather than having it become an afterthought, then it really doesn't matter *where* it is - it matters *what* happens in it. If it's boring, it doesn't matter if its boring on the surface, in the Hollow World, or as one of the asteroids orbiting a star in the Ennui System. It can be interesting anywhere, if and only if people make it interesting. Sure, takes creativity and imagination, and that's not as easy as it seems, but it's kind of the hobby we're in, right? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 03:37:15 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: The Dark Shire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What do yuo mean by "tunes"? Ideas, powers? What don't you like? BTW, have you ever out women, children, pets, family pictures in a vilain site, camp, lair.. whatever? How about that good old studd of killing 3 kobols a round when theirs kids are begging for their lives? Is it the same as always? Do you remember the massacer at Consn's village, the woman holding his hand and being beheaded etc? Couldn't the young kobolds turn to good people? Should "human" (in a Goblin's MM entry) be GOOD in alignement? Neutral, I think. Taht is all about AVERAGE, right? There are good, N and E orcs aren't there? (is this the correct question tag?) vini. thibault sarlat wrote: > > Yea i know them , i like most of their tunes but i find some others too loud!!! > > Vinicius R. de Moraes a �crit: > > > Do you guys remember "Carnival of the Bizarre"... hum... no, no. What's > > the name? anyway, the adventure in wich Goblins were not evilena not > > dirty. They were the same people, same genes, but totally diferent in > > mannes, for amog them there was a noble human and stuff. It was > > presented in "Creative Campaigning". > > Very creative, indeed. Good adventure, good surprise for "Humanoids: > > chaaaaaaarge!" players. and, of course, good book. the guys were called > > "Renaissance Goblins". The adventure - yes! - was called "Strange > > Renaissance". > > > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > > > > vini. > > > > James Ruhland wrote: > > > > > > > > Halflings. Can't live with 'em, can't throw them to the Cestian > > > Gobbler fast enough. They are so sweet, so cherubic, it makes me sick > > > sometimes. I decided to do something about it, before it was too late. << > > > > > > I always knew there was a reason I liked Mr. Gander. Now I know. 8-) > > > > > > > > Coming soon (maybe) - a campaign setting that portrays halflings the > > > way we *want* them to be - so that your players will feel justified in > > > looting, burning, and rampaging their way across evil Hin-infested lands. > > > Go ahead, share it with your players - they'll thank you for it....<< > > > > > > More, more! ! > -- > Thibault Sarlat > ICQ 16622177. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:54:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: More on Lammasu bloodline MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case the Lammasu bloodline seems a bit overpowered, it has occurred to me that the human-like face of that monster would provide some potential weaknesses in terms of reduced charisma and bite damage (die reduction of 1-2 for "weak" lineage, or complete loss of bite damage for "strong" lineage). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:54:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: << Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte references in Mystara, are there? >> I don't recall any, but I am sure they live somewhere on the planet. Has anyone checked the gazetteers or PWAs for them? In a message dated 2000-05-09 11:48:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: << Is this a project you're working on? It seems like this thread has relevance for the Mystara3E project, but you didn't preface it as such (unless I missed it). >> It is tangentially related -- I was trying to figure out what races besides the standard human and demi-human races would make reasonable player characters in the "standard" Mystaran settings. The Savage Coast has already been detailed -- lupins, rakastas, and tortles are all "common" races, while gnomes should be excluded. Similarly, in the Known World (SE Brun) half-elves have a questionable status but lupins seem to be present in many places, while rakastas and tortles would be much scarcer. I was attempting to stretch the reference in PC2 to faenare living in the Broken Lands to suggest that they might be found in mountains near any forest where elves have ever lived, but who knows? Since the "Ancestor" Rakastas have clearly been relegated to the Hollow World, they probably live there in the vicinity of their Brute- Men comtemporaries, in addition to the many other races already sent there. To send other near humans to the Hollow World, simply create a history for them in the outer world and then threaten them with total physical or cultural destruction to the point that some Immortal intervenes and puts them there. BTW, in my own campaign I had what had to be the most frivolous use of Immortal power to relocate a culture to the Hollow World after Alphatia -- and in case anyone is asking, I consider that one frivolous because a significant portion of the Alphatian culture indeed survived the sinking of Alphatia, with the result that the creation of the floating continent served no other purpose than the saving of lives. The culture that I had saved was the Anglais of Glantri, who were translated to the Hollow World by a junior Immortal who feared they were about to be assimilated into the general culture of Glantri -- and in fact she did get them to the Hollow World while they still had some clerics among them. As to how junior an Immortal she was -- the player characters in my campaign eventually met this Immortal's father, who was mortal and still living, although he was over a century old and very frail.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:54:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-09 11:39:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: << The first PWA, in the description of Arogansa, says "Now the beaches face open air instead of ocean; there is no telling whether the nation will still be a tourist resort when visitors are more likely to fall off the edge than have a nice swim." I'm pretty sure similar things are said elsewhere, but that seems rather decisive :-) >> Yep, that does seem pretty decisive. << And as for the scrambled brains, what difference does it make? They were mostly commoners anyway (I say attempting to look as much like the immortal Alphatia as possible) ;-P >> Well, that does explain a lot -- if the Immortals think like aristocratic Alphatians, that would go a long way towards explaining the good breaks that the Alphatians have gotten. As for those poor coast- dwelling commoners, I supposed we should look up the reference in the "Castle Greyhawk" module that describes the strange personality changes that many of the local merchants undergo from being under three or more simultaneous "Charm" spells. But I suppose that this effect would improve the political stability of the floating continent of Alphatia, as mentally deranged commoners would have a very difficult time raising any sort of rebellion.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:28:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Veritloch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > somewhat elsewhere (I suggested Vertiloch and Jafilia because Eriadna should see clearly that they are in desperate need of food) where populations seem rather sparse. << Actually, on Veritloch I'm not sure I agree with you, on second thought. Veritloch's farming population probably did "ok", and there aren't any large cities in that Kingdom (Sundsvall) left to need being supplied. IMO the last thing Veritloch needs is another bunch of displaced refugees (they've got enough of their own, and if they're going to put anyone to use farming, it'd be those dudes). Jafilia though I do agree with you on - they'll need people in that area to support the new capital & imperial infrastructure in general (call it "farmers and functionaries" if you'd like). But the last thing Veritloch needs are swarms of hungry, displaced refugees - that's Veritloch's export, not their import. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:20:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's another one of my odd, out-of-the-blue, seemingly incongruous questions (btw, thanks again to those who offered their opinion on the "can an Undead seek and reach Immortality in a Sphere other than Entropy" question): Who was the patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter in her quest for Immortality? I thought it might be someone like Odin or one of the other "Northman" Immortals, but she's Sphere of Time and none of them are. The other "obvious" choice given what is listed as Liena's interests might be Vanya - that might partly explain why Liena is "disinterested" in Thyatis (as a young/new Immortal, one would think you'd seek followers where you'd find 'em, and for Liena Thyatis might be a natural - not only with her son on the throne, but given her interest in "the effects of war on history", there'd be a connection. However, if Vanya was her patron, Vanya might have said "hands off", not wanting Liena to compete for the same follower-pool: war-oriented Thyatians). But that "excuse" isn't convincing to me, because IMO Vanya might prefer someone beholden to her to "scoop up" those who might otherwise become followers of, say Odin or Halav (dudes *not* beholden to Vanya who are listed in DotE Player's Guide to Thyatis as increasing their followings in Thyatis recently.) So then, to me, that still leaves a open question as to who Liena's Immortal Patron might be (people can still answer Vanya if they think that's the likely one, btw). Any ideas? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:55:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Stonewall and Alphatia MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >IMO, just because people didn't take good opportunities for so long is no >reason to not take them now. One can come up with a couple reasons why a >"crisis" might not have been precipitated earlier (I.E. perhaps Stonewall >had grain stores - I guess it'd be a reach to say they had seven years >worth, but it's a world of reaches. IMO, there have been lots of reaches >that have cut short/short-circuited/fizzled potential good plotlines, I'd >be much more "forgiving" about reaches that created some or used some of >the opportunities that were neglected before). Now the stored grain supply >ran out (or is running out), and so the crisis is upon us this year. I considered that, since Draco is such an important military base, it'd have massive food stores. But I discounted this as a solution over 7 years because it's simply absurd to expect to have those amounts of food stored. I kind of agree with you that we can accept some reaches for the sake of plot, but I don't think we need to make absurd stretches in order to bring adventure opportunities to the FCA--there are easier ways. >The FCA never had to be boring in the first place. Not to sound harsh, but >just because potential "cool possible results" didn't unfold before for >whatever reason isn't an excuse not to do 'em. It just takes some >creativity to fix the mistake - and it'd certainly be worth it. I came up >with the "silly grain stores idea" on the spur of the moment here, came to >me while I was writing my reply. If that can be done in two minutes, I'm >sure in two days or two weeks of pondering people could come up with better >rationales -- if they wanted to. Just have to be devious. Helps that I'm I'm sure we could come up with some sort of justification for it taking so long (I've got it! Food ran out quickly and the commoners of Stonewall started to riot and were going to invade Haven, so Mylertendal cast Sleep-curse, which effected enough of Draco that they were able to feed the rest. And she's not too bad a person, so maybe the version she made up lets the vines that actually get sunlight flower and grow blackberries. But then "our heroes" undo the curse...), but IMO we'd be better off coming up with ideas to make the setting more exciting without resorting to explanations that require such a stretch. I actually have a couple of ideas which I'll post to the HW group (and anyone else who'd like them) rather than putting them here, for those who prefer to be surprised, just in case any of my suggestions are taken :-) >Point is, " it should've happened in 1010" (or 11, or 12, or &tc) is no >reason for not getting things right now. If they were, then all my little >"talks" here would be a waste of time. Well, I guess that's certainly >possible: I might be wasting my time. No populations for Alphatian kingdoms were ever published (key word: published) after the 1010 Almanac, right? Why not give the the people of Stonewall the benefit of the doubt that they figured out how to keep themselves alive, and possibly leverage better conditions for commoners most everywhere? Sure it means that the populations in the Mystaran Almanacs were misreported, but that's certainly understandable given the vast distances involved :-) >Plus, what the heck, a Sleep Curse on Draco might be fun, too (though >Dracodon and his pals might not be so easily dispatched - if things were >that easy, there'd be a lot more Sleep Curse usage in warfare). But at Dracodon would likely be protected against it, but if Mylertendal cast the spell at some random commoner in the middle of the city, that would easily put at least 400,000 people to sleep (and allow them to remain in suspended animation protected from problems like starvation). And I certainly don't think it would be used often in warfare. After all, it would be very rare indeed for a 36th level mage (20th, I guess, in AD&D) to willingly drop to 34th (probably 19th in AD&D) and lose 3d6 hp. The only reason to do so would be absolute blind fury (Maleficent from the Disney cartoon) or in order to protect one's bid for immortality. To stick with the example of Mylertendal, she would drop to 34th level, losing the ability to cast another sleep-curse for a few years at least, and dropping to anywhere from 40 to 55 hp (from 60) with the potential to recover only 2 of them. I cannot see her casting this spell unless she felt it absolutely vital to insuring her success on the Path of the Paragon. Same with pretty much any other 36th level mage (although not necessarily Paragons). >If people, as Alex pointed out in one of his recent mails, want to keep >gamers interested in Alphatia rather than having it become an afterthought, >then it really doesn't matter *where* it is - it matters *what* happens in >it. If it's boring, it doesn't matter if its boring on the surface, in the >Hollow World, or as one of the asteroids orbiting a star in the Ennui >System. It can be interesting anywhere, if and only if people make it >interesting. Sure, takes creativity and imagination, and that's not as easy >as it seems, but it's kind of the hobby we're in, right? I really do understand what you're saying, but I still think we're better off focusing on things that make ideal plot elements now rather than trying to justify revisiting missed opportunities. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:11:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Veritloch MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >"farmers and functionaries" if you'd like). But the last thing Veritloch >needs are swarms of hungry, displaced refugees - that's Veritloch's export, >not their import. Good point. By 1016 they're working on rebuilding, so refugees would be less of an export, but it's definitely a good point that Vertiloch had plenty of people to send to the other kingdoms before then. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 04:24:50 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Races of Ochalea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While the PWAs depict Ochalea as being relatively free of monsters, in fact it supports a rather wide variety of races. Humans of Cyprian (Common Alphatian) origin are the dominant race, and their prejudices against mages, thieves, Hattians, and female adventurers are cited in DotE. Ogre magi and other Oni hide themselves among the humans, using their natural "polymorph" ability to conceal their true nature. Hengeyokai are also found on the fringes of human society, where they live as fighters, magies (wu jen), and clerics (shukenja). Spirit folk also live among humans but see less need to conceal their natures. They may be fighters or monks. Lupins are fairly common in Ochalea. Lupin breeds include Ogrish Chow- Chows, Ochalean Cresteds, Ochalean Houndlings, and High Shar-Pei; with so many breeds available, there are doubtless many mongrels as well. Rakasta breeds seem to be limited to Pardastas, who remain aloof from human society. Korobokuru dwarves live separately from humans but are generally friendly with them. They have bonuses to strength and constitution and penalties to intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. Most of them are barbarian warriors, while others are mages (wu jen) or thieves (yakuza). Friendly monster races include foo creatures (dogs and lions), giant eagles, and hsiao. Nagas are generally neutral towards humans; they are noted for their abilities as priests and wizards. Shan sao, tabaxi, tengus are other neutral races. Hostile monster races include bakemono, goblin rats, goblin spiders, hobgoblins, kappas, and p'ohs. Some Oni live among them as leaders. Aquatic races who live near Ochalea include aquatic ogres, marine trolls, hai nu, and ningyo (triton variant). Of lycanthropes, weretigers are found on land and weresharks are found in the surrounding ocean. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 04:24:49 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 3:37:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << So then, to me, that still leaves a open question as to who Liena's Immortal Patron might be (people can still answer Vanya if they think that's the likely one, btw). Any ideas? >> I have three favored candidates: 1) Protius, who might have been her Immortal patron as the "Spooming Nooga". 2) Khoronus, whose main interest is listed as "Teaching Lessons of Time to Rulers". Thincol's dynasty would certainly be an opportunity for Khoronus to pursue that main interest. 3) Petra, whose interests are listed as "Fighting-Clerics; Besieged Cities". Aline would certainly qualify for the first interest, and the situation in which her son became Emperor of Thyatis would certainly qualify for the second interest. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:01:01 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable wrote: > BTW, in my own campaign I had what had to be the most frivolous use of > Immortal power to relocate a culture to the Hollow World after = Alphatia -- > and in case anyone is asking, I consider that one frivolous because a > significant portion of the Alphatian culture indeed survived the = sinking of > Alphatia, with the result that the creation of the floating continent = served > no other purpose than the saving of lives. The culture that I had = saved > was the Anglais of Glantri, who were translated to the Hollow World by > a junior Immortal who feared they were about to be assimilated into = the > general culture of Glantri -- and in fact she did get them to the = Hollow > World while they still had some clerics among them. As to how junior > an Immortal she was -- the player characters in my campaign eventually > met this Immortal's father, who was mortal and still living, although = he was > over a century old and very frail.... The thing to remember when placing cultures in the Hollow World is that = the Hollow World has a council of Immortals that watch over it and = created it (and thus have a strong interest in what's going on in = there). And if you can't convince this Council that this or that = particular culture should be preserved, you won't get away with it = (these are some of the most powerful Immortals BTW). So, I guess what = I'm saying is that you can't just sneak cultures into the Hollow World = without facing repercussions. Of course, who am I to rant; I placed part = of the Blackmoor civilization in the Hollow World, complete with = technology and that kind of stuff...now, that's hard to justify... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:59:26 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ezio Pignatelli Organization: SISSA - Trieste - Italy Subject: Wild mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robe wrote: > Sending a hard demon over is not very nice. It seems to me that your GM > wanted to make an example of this chap, because he didn't like wild mages. > And it worked too, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation. > > In my experience simply losing a round in combat is bad enough due to a wild > surge, there is no need to be vindictive on top. And that is vindictive. I > mean, given all the possibilities for what came through that gate, what was > the chance of a Type IV demon coming through? > > Your DM kills players when rolling fumbles? Get a new DM. I'm from the > philosophy that a single bad dice roll shouldnt kill unless the player is > begging for it. PCs should die when they make mistakes, not just due to bad > luck. Although if you are ultra low level thats par for the course, but it > sounds like you guys are around level 5+ to me. > Well, I guess it depends from how far you push the "the player is beggin for it." I am known to be a very nasty DM, but if you have a, let's say, 1% probability of dying while casting a spell, I _will_ kill you if you cast it 200 times during a campaign. I *could* not kill you if you cast it, say, 10 times and I roll a bad number. But as soon as I realize you -as a player- think that I will save you from bad luck, and that you really do not have that 1%, and the real prob. is much lower becuase of DM kindness, I will kill you at the first dice roll. There is some reason in having very nasty results possible: tha player *must* be scared of this possibility. And I make sure it will ever be, and keep being very cautious in this regard. Some of the most dangerous -and powerful - spells must be cast only in desperate situations. But usually I do not need to push it so far as killing players. As soon as I see one of them too confident about my 'kindness', a nasty roll is going to destroy a couple of magic items -or a spell book. That's enough, and none of my players ever slip into munchkinism... and, to be honest, they seems quite happy about this kind of policy (I have 2 groups of 6 different players, and I am starting refusing new ones). -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:25:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > There is some reason in having very nasty results possible: tha player *must* be scared of this > possibility. And I make sure it will ever be, and keep being very cautious in this regard. Some of > the most dangerous -and powerful - spells must be cast only in desperate situations. But usually I > do not need to push it so far as killing players. As soon as I > see one of them too confident about my 'kindness', a nasty roll is going to destroy a couple of > magic items -or a spell book. > That's enough, and none of my players ever slip into munchkinism... and, to be honest, they seems > quite happy about this > kind of policy (I have 2 groups of 6 different players, and I am starting refusing new ones). Yep, thats fair enough, but killing the entire party is OTT. Bear in mind that wild surges are not even all bad, some have quite beneficial effects, and so interpreting one in the most negative way possible really goes against the spirit of what a wild surge is. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:37:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia >[James' description of Stonewall snipped] Excellent work here, James! This is a (IMO) logical reason why Stonewall, for its tiny size and apparently inhospitable (compared to southern Alphatia) climate, would have so many people living within its borders. Hmmm...I wonder if any wizards send agents to this kingdom to "retrieve" runaway slaves...? Given that Greenspur is also among the more "liberal" kingdoms (to the extent that clerics seem to be accorded more respect, anyway), I wonder if it, also, serves as a sort of "refuge"? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:38:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Testers wanted > >I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for >testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any >takers? I'd like to test it. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara Patrick wrote: >Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) >Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte >references in Mystara, are there? > >Patrick You know, I can't seem to remember seeing trogs in any of the adventures, either (except B2 or one of the other dungeon-crawls - perhaps also in a random encounter table). Mind you, I've placed liberal amounts of them in one recent adventure in southern Darokin, but I would imagine tribes of them might live in the Malpheggi Swamp (in Darokin), the Blight Swamp (IMC these might be some sort of degenerate Outer Being cult - gives another reason why people don't like to pass through it that often), and possibly some of the islands in the Sea of Dread (not to mention Davania and other places). Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 15:22:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "[Iulius Scaevola]" Subject: Problems Problems Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Recently I am getting millions of problems with my Internet connection, so I apologize in advance to all the people who are trying to contact me on the list or off the list. I am currently writing using the university computer, but I hope to solve the problems on my computer and re-connect with all you sooner or later. Special apologies to James and Giampaolo, with whom I was in close contact these last days regarding our little project...and to whoever has tried to reach me...without doing so. See you later, Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis "Damn Alphatians with all the others" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:15:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Populations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > No populations for Alphatian kingdoms were ever published (key word: published) after the 1010 Almanac, right? << Population breakdowns for individual Alphatian Kingdoms were published right up through PWA III (1012), see PWA II p.9 and PWA III p.66. >> Why not give the the people of Stonewall the benefit of the doubt that they figured out how to keep themselves alive, and possibly leverage better conditions for commoners most everywhere? << One phrase: Spell of Preservation. Another concept: IMO, because it would be boring to "back-date" such things as "there was a social reformation and now there are better conditions for commoners most everywhere" rather than have it unfold as a event-plotline, possibly with PC involvement. I have to say that of all the bad things to do, that beats out making it in "real time" because not only does it require "explanations that require such a stretch" but rather than making the place more exciting (as you say), it merely short-circuits another plot posibility ("what? social conflict generating adventure oportunities, storylines, and possibly leading to better treatment of commoners in Alphatia? Sorry, that happened around 1011 when no one was looking" seems like a bad way to handle it, to me. But, again, wadda I know.) The sleep-curse idea is a better one, IMO, even if that is "back-dated", because it generates plotlines (people "adventuring" to remove the curse that keeps their buddies in slumber), and leaves open the possibility of dealing with the "social conflict"/"social evolution" thread without the device of back-dating it and saying that it happened 6 years ago "off-stage" and is resolved. >> I cannot see her casting this spell unless she felt it absolutely vital to insuring her success on the Path of the Paragon. << Which she pretty much had to restart in some ways, because her big project (beutification campaign) isn't looking so hot lately ("have you *seen" Aasla? All my art, charred beyond recognition!" - Mylertendal, as she steps over the bodies of the slain). >> I really do understand what you're saying, but I still think we're better off focusing on things that make ideal plot elements now rather than trying to justify revisiting missed opportunities. << I would rather think of it as taking advantage of missed opportunities, rather than simply using missed opportunities as an opportunity to miss another one. That might sound harsh, but I think that's what would happen if folks go with your "back-date it" idea and couple it with the "they used it to leverage social reform and improvement of living conditions" ideas - then not only do you miss one opportunity (describing "the greatest migration since sliced bread moved from Dayton to Sacremento" or whatever other opportunity one makes of the "Stonewall Situation", plus you miss/circumvent the plotlines surrounding social upheaval in Alphatia - remember, it's conflict that generates adventure opportunities. Neat, tidy resolutions only generate ennui, though I suppose they do satisfy those who see these projects as an opportunity to "tinker" with and "perfect" their nations, but one can, if one insists, do that *and* still use the world as a gameworld intended to generate role-playing possibilities. After all, what's Mystara for? Getting everything "just so?" Or adventuring in?). Again, this might sound like a harsh assessment, but I think sometimes we forget the purpose of things. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:17:00 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Veritloch MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Good point. By 1016 they're working on rebuilding, so refugees would be less of an export, but it's definitely a good point that Vertiloch had plenty of people to send to the other kingdoms before then. << No, you miss my main point, which is that they have no need to take in some other Kingdom's cast-offs when they've got problems with the ones they have. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:20:13 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I have three favored candidates: > Thanks. All good ones, with good explanations. 8-) Now I still have to choose one, though. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:03:24 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Who was the patron of Aline Sigbertsdatter in her quest for Immortality? In my campaigns it's been Petra. I just liked the idea that Vanya could be beholden, since it's an aspirant of Petra's who's preserving Thyatis. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:48:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Summary of near human races on Mystara] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wizards Shopper wrote: > >Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds that= >were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places no= t >previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has yet >"failed" to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, but= >others may have different ideas. Muhahahahahahahaaaaaaa! ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:47:52 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: 'River Thothia' (was: Post-WotI Possibilities) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > - The Stalker of Alphatia (who was there, of course - it's a part of our great empire :) ) It's no more an Empire, it's a Confederation. So the River Aurora really isn't part of anything... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:47:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Post-WotI Possibilities MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'll have to work on this at some point, if someone doesn't beat me to it > first. > ----- > > Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Here you go again...should I begin to count the things you plan to do and never fulfill (evil grin here). Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:48:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------FC91D4DB11CE17B2D0CEE031" --------------FC91D4DB11CE17B2D0CEE031 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wizards Shopper ha scritto: > In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > << Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) > Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte > references in Mystara, are there? >> Well, some reference for troglodytes have been made by Geoff Gander...they may be found somewhere on Shawn's site, or at our own Dark Portal, the Outer Beings Site at www.geocities.com/iuliusscaevola/ I think under "Dark Worship on Mystara", at "Thanegioth Archipelago". > --------------FC91D4DB11CE17B2D0CEE031 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Wizards Shopper ha scritto:

In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes:

<< Oh!  And Troglodytes!  The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-)
 Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte
 references in Mystara, are there?  >>

Well, some reference for troglodytes have been made by Geoff Gander...they may be found somewhere
on Shawn's site, or at our own Dark Portal, the Outer Beings Site at
www.geocities.com/iuliusscaevola/
I think under "Dark Worship on Mystara", at "Thanegioth Archipelago".
 
--------------FC91D4DB11CE17B2D0CEE031-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:48:50 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1920FD6478B394E489A2B6D4" --------------1920FD6478B394E489A2B6D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wizards Shopper ha scritto: > In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > << Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) > Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte > references in Mystara, are there? >> Well, some reference for troglodytes have been made by Geoff Gander...they may be found somewhere on Shawn's site, or at our own Dark Portal, the Outer Beings Site at www.geocities.com/iuliusscaevola/ I think under "Dark Worship on Mystara", at "Thanegioth Archipelago". > --------------1920FD6478B394E489A2B6D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  

Wizards Shopper ha scritto:

In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes:

<< Oh!  And Troglodytes!  The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-)
 Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte
 references in Mystara, are there?  >>

Well, some reference for troglodytes have been made by Geoff Gander...they may be found somewhere
on Shawn's site, or at our own Dark Portal, the Outer Beings Site at
www.geocities.com/iuliusscaevola/
I think under "Dark Worship on Mystara", at "Thanegioth Archipelago".
 
--------------1920FD6478B394E489A2B6D4-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:59:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Pscionics in Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] Savage Coast class breakdown) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that AD&D2 psionicists are too powerful. As D&D3E is using one unified spell system, it seems unatural to have a seperate "pscionic" system. Therefore, I think having a psionic system that uses powers much in the same way as "wizards" use spells would be the best route. Also it would be consistant with D&D3E. -- On Tue, 9 May 2000 21:25:52 Wizards Shopper wrote: >In a message dated 2000-05-09 7:15:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > ><< Excellent point regarding multi-classing. I'm not sure about replacing > psionicists with sorcerors, though. From what I've seen, they don't seem > the sort that would heavily inhabit Gargona and Saragon. >> > >I had a more general replacement in mind. If you look through the available >Savage Coast material, you will see that the psionicist is regarded as a >slight variation of the wizard and has most of the same kits available to it. >>From that usage it seems natural to conclude that they would have been >using sorcerors instead had they been available -- they certainly fit the >Mystara setting far better than psionicists do. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:21:27 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Post-WotI Possibilities] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Caroletti wrote: > >Here you go again...should I begin to count the things you plan to do an= d >never fulfill (evil grin here). Um... errr... it wasn't me, I swear! It was my Nightmare Dimensional counterpart. Yeah, that's it... see for them, *not* completing projects i= s actually the same as completing projects for us Normal Dimensional people= =2E So my counterpart is actually wildly successful in his own dimension. :) ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:40:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Fwd: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen IX Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, A friend of mine wanted me to forward this to the MML to see what everyone thinks. The author of this piece though wants to remain anonymous (sp?) for some reason (The author wouldn't say why except for some vague excuse). I've agreed to forward any replies on to the anon. author so send any comments/criticisms/suggestons/praise/whatevers directly to me. The only editing I've done is to take out any refrences to who the author is. Thanks Greg Weatherup Gecko GWxup@excite.com http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html ----- Original Message ----- Message-ID: ID code deleted to protect authors anon since it has some clues. Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 time stamp deleted to protect authors anon since it includes a time zone abbreviation From: deleted to protect authors anon. > Subject: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen IX > To: gwxup@excite.com > > author's note: I don't mind about any argumentation > about the truth of the facts written here... > > ACT I > scene I > outside Linden, late 1009 AC > characters: 2 gentlemen > > enters two gentlemen > > 1st GENT: Oh dear, nice to meet you, how do you do? > 2nd GENT: good days and bad days, more bad than good > in fact, and you? > 1st GENT: more or less like you. Of course with this > war knocking ever and ever menacing to our doors... > 2nd GENT: and our young men dying in the battlefields > always more numerous... > 1st GENT: and while our field of grain are abandoned, > without a guide... > 2nd GENT: and our lives themselves menaced by this > terrible plague... > 1st GENT: and our towns, become nearly ghost-towns... > 2nd GENT: and our good old days of glory trembling > like a candle at the end of his life... > 1st GENT: and our beloved prince, acting always more > like a fool... > 2nd GENT: and...(shocked)wait a minute!you said > Vanserie became fool?So his voices about his new mad > manners are true... > 1st GENT(lowering his voice): There's nothing > confirmed > but someone whispers he was cursed by the plague. As > you know he refuses any clerical cure. And he works > hard recluse in his laboratory to find another cure, > but the failure of his tryings and those numberless > hours spent in that dark rooms are leading him towards > madness... > 2 GENT: and his relatives?Aren't they able to convince > him to take clerical cures? > 1st GENT: his wife(note of Author: Idon't remember her > name) is also ill, very ill, she will die until few > days...Juliana and Sir Anton are desperate. They tried > a lot of times but always failed. They watch our > Prince every day going deeper in his madness and > towards the death and they seem unable to front these > problems. > (rumors and chants outside the scene) > 2nd GENT: What are those rumors? > 1st GENT: Probably another fool cleric hoping Vanserie > will let him cure him, you know if someone could > manage in this, his church will become very important > in Bergdhoven...well my friend let's go too watch this > show!perhaps miracles can happen also in this land > abandoned by Immortals... > > P.S.:Dear Greg, as you can see, starts the drama I > promised. Cold you do a huge favour for me? Could you > send it also to the Mystara Mailing List? (of course without saying it's written by CENSORED). > Also could send to me any posssible comments? I prefer > to do everything with your help because you know I > don't have a good feeling with most of RPG players(you > are one of the few exceptions...) anon. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:43:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Fwd: TDoVV, Act I scene II Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The anon author has already done the next part so I'm forward this also. Again, please send any replies to me so that I can forward them on to the anon author. Greg Weatherup Gecko GWxup@excite.com http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/spock/67/index.html ----- Original Message ----- Message-ID: CENSORED Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 CENSORED From: CENSORED > Subject: TDoVV, Act I scene II > To: gwxup@excite.com > > Act I > scene II > two gentlemen > (enter a priest, I cannot decide of what Immortal,Greg > do you have any idea?, with his assistant, followed by > a crowd of commoners, many of them ill) > > PRIEST (loudly): Follow me my dear friends, follow my > teachings, and you will be saved... and freed from > this plague and this war! > > CROWD (also loudly): save us, saver of the world, put > your bless over us, kiss our forehead and when it will > be showed your power we will serve you for the > eternity > > 1st GENT (in low voice to 2nd GENT):look my dear > friend, look upon these weak-spirited men. Until > yesterday they at best lauhged of priests and their > ridicolous theories, at worst they were the first to > hunt and burn those poor fools... > > 2nd GENT: I remembered very well that period. Even two > months ago a man, only suspected of being a follower > of something like Ixon...Oxin, weas hanged in the main > place of Kopstar, and his house was burned... > > 1st GENT: yes...only two months ago...and now...now > this!!!some beated dogs licking the hands of their > previuos enemy, this they are!!!Oh, where is this > damned war going to lead us? > > (a man exit from the crowd and goes in front of the > priest and the assistant) > > MAN (crying): Oh mighty, Oh only light existing in > this shadowy age, heal me from this terrible plague!!! > > PRIEST (putting an hand on the head of the man): you > mustn't pray me, you must believe in Powers that are > kindly with you and that want only to lead us towards > a destiny of glory...do you belevie in this? > > MAN (exitating): uh well, let me think... > > PRIEST( with higher voice): there's nothing to think > of...DO YOU BELIEVE? > > MAN: yes > > PRIEST (his voce very HIGH): your cry must reach the > heaven!! DO YOU BELIEVE? > > MAN (LOUDLY):YES; I BELIEVE! > > PRIEST(calmly):...so you will be saved...(heals the > man) > > CROWD: a miracle! a miracle! > ASSISTANT: hail for the glory of our power! > > 1st GENT (whispering to 2nd gent):what a disgusting > show... > > PRIEST(calming the crowd): no, it isn't a miracle, > only the will of the Powers, but today could happen a > sort of miracle...I have a dream sent by the Powers > themselves...I'm here not only to heal you, I'm here > to heal your mad prince Vanserie and to convert real > to the only true faith. I know many had already tried > but failed, but this time is different...you have seen > this, I have the powers, powers gifted to me by real > Powers...I believe... and I cannot fail. > > (all of the character start towards Linden that is in > the opposite area of the stage) anon _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:56:12 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds that >were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places not >previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has yet "failed" >to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, but others may >have different ideas. probably not, but we don't want people thinking thatthere is definitly none then, for one thing you never know who could end up among the Merry Pirates. ><< >Phanaton: Phanatons have two centers of power: One on the Orc's Head > >Peninsula and the other on the Isle of Dawn. They are virtually unknown > >elsewhere, and are not accepted as "people" in any human or demi-human > >lands. > > would the Thangeioth Archipelago be considered another center of power?>> > >I am not sure. I take it they are found on the Isle of Dread? How big an >area do they seem to occupy? After having a brief look through it doesn't really seem to give a definite indication one way or the other. As a general indication you could say that to the south of the Great Wall there is a 3% chance of encountering a wandering human in groups of 2-12. In the area there are settlements of 2100 humans. on the other side of the Great Wall there is a 5% chance of encountering wandering phanatons in groups of 4-16. In the area there is 1 set village of about 100. By all these pointless figure you could probably consider the Archipelago as being fairly well endowed with phanatons. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 21:39:39 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion ofAlphatiaandStonewall as a case-study.] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Sullivan wrote: > > Well, the Immortals seem to have forgotten to move Bellissaria along with > Alphatia, so there's gonna be mass starvation in Draco unless they move. > And if the SoP means that commoners would sooner sit in Draco and starve > than move somewhere where they can get enough food, then Alphatia really > isn't going to have any impact on the HW at all, except perhaps for a new > shadow pattern. > Wouldn't it be possible for the Immortals to magically change the soil of Stonewall so that it produces crops so abundant that they can feed the entire population? -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:34:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Populations MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >Population breakdowns for individual Alphatian Kingdoms were published >right up through PWA III (1012), see PWA II p.9 and PWA III p.66. I don't have either of those with me, but I'll take your word on it :-) I was just thinking that since they didn't give the kingdom by kingdom descriptions they probably wouldn't have populations of each. > Another concept: IMO, because it would be boring to "back-date" such >things as "there was a social reformation and now there are better >conditions for commoners most everywhere" rather than have it unfold as a >event-plotline, possibly with PC involvement. I have to say that of all the >bad things to do, that beats out making it in "real time" because not only >does it require "explanations that require such a stretch" but rather than >making the place more exciting (as you say), it merely short-circuits >another plot posibility ("what? social conflict generating adventure >oportunities, storylines, and possibly leading to better treatment of >commoners in Alphatia? Sorry, that happened around 1011 when no one was >looking" seems like a bad way to handle it, to me. But, again, wadda I >know.) The sleep-curse idea is a better one, IMO, even if that is >"back-dated", because it generates plotlines (people "adventuring" to >remove the curse that keeps their buddies in slumber), and leaves open the >possibility of dealing with the "social conflict"/"social evolution" thread >without the device of back-dating it and saying that it happened 6 years >ago "off-stage" and is resolved. Okay, with population figures published through 1012 (and in order not to contradict the MAs), I suppose we can't really back-date a mass exodus. IMO then we need to come up with a good explanation for how it's lasted this long (backdating a sleep-curse could work, I suppose, although there might be better alternatives). While I'd say most of the problems of adapting to the HW should've occurred "when no one was looking" in 1010, there's no good solution for Stonewall except for suspended animation or a gate to the plane of bread (or something). So I'll withdraw my argument for backdating the ultimate solution, but there has to have been some sort of temporary solution that we'd have to back-date. >Which she pretty much had to restart in some ways, because her big project >(beutification campaign) isn't looking so hot lately ("have you *seen" >Aasla? All my art, charred beyond recognition!" - Mylertendal, as she steps >over the bodies of the slain). Aasla was charred beyond recognition, not the whole country. The Tertimony includes 6 apprentices (which she should already have started if not completed) and transforming the land for 100 miles around her home (it still is full of artists and some art, just not as much as before). She wasn't in a huge rush before, but having a million commoners overrun Haven to loot and burn could likely mean her ultimate failure or set her back another century or so. We don't have any indication for whether she's completed her Quest, Trial, or Task (although she certainly hasn't driven away all other mages within 1,000 miles), so she could still be fairly close. Or perhaps she was busy researching her new magical item when the Alphatia sank, and she's afraid that having to deal with a war would disrupt her research. I'd say she should probably have already completed the Trial, at least. >I would rather think of it as taking advantage of missed opportunities, >Again, this might sound like a harsh assessment, but I think sometimes we >forget the purpose of things. I'll agree that Stonewall's problems shouldn't be backdated, although finding alternate means of subsistence should be backdated for most of the rest of the FCA :-) Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:00:58 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Populations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > IMO then we need to come up with a good explanation for how it's lasted this long (backdating a sleep-curse could work, I suppose, although there might be better alternatives). While I'd say most of the problems of adapting to the HW should've occurred "when no one was looking" in 1010, there's no good solution for Stonewall except for << What? You're not confident that the Brain Trust that handles FCA matters can come up with an explanation? (don't say it. *don't*. . .) - after all, if they can put their brains together and come up with an exemption to the HW limitations on spellcasting/learning magic (actually, they came up with three of 'em), then I have absolute confidence that if they want to they could handle this problem, too. >> suspended animation or a gate to the plane of bread (or something). So I'll withdraw my argument for backdating the ultimate solution, but there has to have been some sort of temporary solution that we'd have to back-date. << The "Plane of Bread" is really known as the "Demi-Plane of Dough", and it's ruled by a tiny Dough Golem wearing a chef's hat and a bandana. He has a Special Weakness, though - poke him in the belly and he's putty in your hands. > > >Which she pretty much had to restart in some ways, because her big project > >(beutification campaign) isn't looking so hot lately ("have you *seen" > >Aasla? All my art, charred beyond recognition!" - Mylertendal, as she steps > >over the bodies of the slain). > > Aasla was charred beyond recognition, not the whole country. > That's what I said, though. Aasla. Aasla was probably pretty important in the scheme of things, given that it seemed to be where she was concentrating her early efforts. Goes from "transform region into an artistic wonder" to "transform region into an artistic wonder with a big pile of smoking rubble where you were doing your best work." > > I'll agree that Stonewall's problems shouldn't be backdated, although finding alternate means of subsistence should be backdated for most of the rest of the FCA :-) << Yep. I'm too giddy today, btw. Everything I'm saying is comming out all tounge-in-cheek. I guess that's because I've solved some of *my* scripting conundrums, which have been bedeviling me for months. *Joy*. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:07:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Summary of near human races on Mystara] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable shawn stanley wrote: >>Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds tha= t >>were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places >= >not previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has >>yet "failed" to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, >>bu= t others may have different ideas. > = >probably not, but we don't want people thinking thatthere is definitly >= none then, for one thing you never know who could end up among the Merry >Pira= tes. BTW, just to add one other comment here- a culture doesn't necessarily ha= ve to be on the verge of extinction in order to be relocated to the Hollow Worl= d. They can be placed there for all sorts of reasons. The Brute-Men weren't placed there; they just happened to be there alread= y. The Icevale Elves and (IIRC) Schattenalfen both migrated to the Hollow Wo= rld, as did the Beastmen. I would be very surprised if there weren't species a= nd cultures "unique" to the Hollow World, that never had Outer World counterparts. Also, there is at least one precedent for Lupins in the Hollow World alre= ady- the Norwold Malamutes, who the Lupin article mentions know of the Hollow = World (IIRC). And that's all I'll say about Hollow World Lupins for the time being. :) ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:46:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 9 May 2000 20:36:39 James Ruhland wrote: >> > Why a 'throwback'? They are unlike other cultures in that they base >their empire more on individuality rather than laws. This would work if >they were ethical people conscious of the consequences of what they do. << > >It would if they were, but since they aren't. . .well, ethical people with >conciences wouldn't have laws saying they can kill any slave at any time >for any reason or none. We can debate how often they really do that, but >IMO the obvious point is that "nice" people wouldn't set things up so that >such a thing could happen at all. > I mostly agree with that, but I would also like to point out that most societies are surprisingly bad at abolishing laws they have evolved from and no longer need. Not that this is the case in Alphatia, but there are many such cases in the real world. >>> We know that's not the case, so Alphatia isn't a perfect society or >utopia, but is it really that much worse than the other nations? << > >Well, here we go back to the crux of the earlier exchanges, don't we? > Anyhow, I quote Tylion/"Terari" - "This is not Thyatis," he said "This is >not any land you know. . ." >That much worse? Well, I guess that's for people to decide. In the post >you're replying to, I didn't compare Alphatia to any of the other nations - >I compared it to itself, using the comments of one of its own former rulers >and using one of its own Kingdoms as the basis for drawing conclusions >regarding the rest of Alphatia. > Okay - true. >> > And, yes, he *was* the emperor, but nobody knew that at the time when >he made those statements (1,000 AC). << > >Some people did - we did; point being that we were aware that he knew what >he was talking about. > My point was that he wasn't talking to us, but to Galatia. However, you seem to imply that while that was the case, the text was still there for us to read - it was written for Galatia's benefit (who'd care?) > >>> 2) Don't you think he *might* have exaggerated just a little - he *was* >trying to scare Galatia, after all! << > >Probably he wasn't exagerating all that much - after all, why scare her >about that fate if it's no big deal? I mean, if things aren't all that bad >for those who don't learn magic, then no need to scare the bejeezus out of >Galatia regarding her possible fate if she doesn't succeed. If things >aren't that much different from other Mystaran nations, then why point out >to her that "this isn't any land you know", and then give her what he >thinks is the reason *why* this isn't any land she knows (the power for >those who learn magic, the drugery & the misery for those who don't)? > Well, it *is* a big deal because you *do* need to be a wizard to be anyone in Alphatia - my point just was that he might have exaggerated to state his points (as was Allston toward us, speaking through Terari). > This I do find a bit troubling, though, and this isn't meant as a slam >against you, but IMO there's a tendency whenever things people don't like >about their favorite nation to be quoted to disregard it as an exaggeration >or an atypical example, etc. If I tried to argue that with respect to the >infamous "Thyatian treachery" or corruption, you wouldn't let me get away >with that, I'm sure. I think I would understand you, though! You like Thyatis - nothing wrong with that! I can accept that - I would *have* to accept that! Now, some of us like Alphatia. So? Sure, I'm probably biased, but can you really blame me for that? > But when it comes to Alphatia - every "negative" example tendeds to be >dismissed, at least by some, as an aberation or an exageration - but once >you collect them all together, IMO rather than being aberations or >exagerations, they tend to form a general picture, and fit with each other >(is the guy who says, on page 2, that "They treat their slaves as we treat >our convicts, and treat their freemen as we treat our slaves. They are >often a cruel people" exagerating? What about the guy who on page 3 is >quoted as calling Alphatia a "hellish land"? How about the stuff I quoted >in previous messages?) Just because I only use one or two of these examples >in any one post I make doesn't mean that cumulatively they don't add up. >After all, they all tend to be from the same source - different pages and >at times even different booklets. But they're all in there, and they can't >all be aberant if DotE's aim was to give people an idea of the societys it >described. Does DotE give a misleading picture of either or both Empires? I >suppose it's possible to argue that, but I'm not *sure* people would argue >that about any other Gaz (though I could be wrong. Indeed, I might be happy >saying the Five Shires Gaz. gives a misleading impression of that benighted >land full of cuthroats and pirates). Well, I suppose we can probably all find references, particularly to Alphatia and Thyatis, to suit our preferences in canon source, simply because they are mentioned often, and many times before DotE was written. Is it a big deal? I doubt it. If we don't like something, we'll change it! I see nothing wrong in that. If you want a thoroughly evil and nasty Alphatia IYC then that's fine - just allow me to keep a not quite so ominous Alphatia in mine, okay? > What does the back of the box (DotE) say about both Empires? People who >still have the box DotE came in might want to flip it over and see the >synopsis description it gives (pithy, but informative) of them ("Thyatis" >and "Alphatia" - about a two sentance description of both). > Yes, your point being? I could be mistaken, but IIRC nobody has claimed that Alphatia is a liberated, fair, and enlightened society. It's not! Even those of us who like Alphatia know that it's not. Some of us just think that it has the potential to become that. (snip rest) - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:26:06 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The mage in his turn kept his mouth shut, > because he has experienced some problems before with his wild magic. I > think, it can add a nice touch to the game (even the fact that something can > damage the bystanders, including the PCs). > hey you don't need a wild mage for this! why i played in a game run by my brother, in a town like fort doom, the town watch was mostly orcs. we were trying to escape and several orcs were chaseing us through the crowded streets. one decided to climb on his freinds shoulders to gain height and maybe a clearer shot with his crossbow. i shot him in the head he flew backwards breaking his buddies neck and because he wore a spiked helm stabbed an innocent bystander through the throat. see all ya need is an imaginative dm. mortus ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:47:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I've seen a Wild Mage kill all his friends by trying to cast Find > Familiar. I've pretty much forbidden Wild Mages since then, as they > inevitably end up being lynched by the other players. > cool! i'd allow them. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:53:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How? Wild surges work on caster and target, so unless you get an area of > > effect one (they are pretty rare) bystanders are more or less safe. (That > > being said, I've seen some real beauties!). > > > Instead of getting a cat as a familiar, a gateway to the Abyss opened and > a type VI demon came out and slaughtered us. > cool! And a wild mage casting a > > spell like Find Familiar, or indulging in the before dungeon power up, does > > not need to be in the midst of the party when doing so, thus possibly > > exposing them to collateral damage. Casting Nahals Reckless Dweomer all the > > Oh, he moved to a 'safe distance'. It just wasn't far enough for the > demon to be unable to see us. i think i like your dm. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:07:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Populations MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 <> I'm not saying a word :-) <> I thought that was the Dimension of Dough ;-) <> True, but all is not necessarily lost. Rebuilding Aasla (with some even more artistic architecture than ever was possible before) shouldn't be all that difficult. If Haven becomes, as you suggested (and I whole-heartedly agree is a major possibility) "New Stonewall," that's a much bigger setback. <> All except the Demi-Plane of Dough. We know that's an ideal solution for Alphatia's food woes! congrats on solving your conundrums :-) Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:18:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: 'River Thothia' (was: Post-WotI Possibilities) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 10 May 2000 19:47:52 Caroletti wrote: >> - The Stalker of Alphatia (who was there, of course - it's a part of our great empire :) ) > >It's no more an Empire, it's a Confederation. So the River Aurora really isn't >part of anything... > Mind your own empire, my dear captain! Alphatia is Alphatia! We just have you guys all confused, though it's not a great achiement I'll admit... Alphatia lives - and it will rise again in all its former glory and more! - The Stalker of Alphatia (who admits, though, that his stay in Thoatia was *certainly* not a friendly one!) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:17:45 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I think I would understand you, though! You like Thyatis - nothing wrong with that! I can accept that - I would *have* to accept that! Now, some of us like Alphatia. So? Sure, I'm probably biased, but can you really blame me for that? << No, but that isn't what I was doing. And, boy, you should *see* how people have treated me if I evidence any bias whatsoever (like in the recent "romanticization fiasco" exhanges). But I understand your point. >> Well, I suppose we can probably all find references, particularly to Alphatia and Thyatis, to suit our preferences in canon source, << If we can, then we should. . . . >> Is it a big deal? I doubt it. If we don't like something, we'll change it! I see nothing wrong in that. If you want a thoroughly evil and nasty Alphatia IYC then that's fine - just allow me to keep a not quite so ominous Alphatia in mine, okay? << I always say people can do whatever they want in their campaigns. I even mean it, too. In their campaigns. No one even has to follow DotE (or any other accessory for that matter) at all in their campaigns. In their campaigns, they can throw out the parts they don't like, or re-script them so the things they don't like apply to nations they dislike and re-write things so the good things about nations they don't like accrue to the nations they do. People can do anything they want in their own campaigns, and it's certainly no business of mine what they do in them. >> Yes, your point being? << My point being that the things I quote aren't isolated examples, just because I only quote 'em one or two at a time. I'm not sure anyone's going to step forward today and say that the good things DotE has to say about Alphatia are aberant exagerations. . . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:35:07 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Design Processes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I thought that was the Dimension of Dough ;-) > No, all Dough is three-dimensional, so there can't simply be *one* Dimension of Dough. The Dimension of Nightmares is really sort of a misnomer, too, but more on that later. Remember, our Zen moment of the day: 'C' is for Cookie. That's good enough for me. > > True, but all is not necessarily lost. Rebuilding Aasla (with some even more artistic architecture than ever was possible before) shouldn't be all that difficult. << Really, eh? Rebuilding a couple centuries worth of Mylertendal-art wouldn't be difficult? Ok, rebuilding some basic buildings, not too much of a problem overall (though you need people to live in the dump, right? See below), but if it took X years to create the art junk in the first place, I doubt it'll be a simple matter to restore it all. Of course, FCA scripting is usually full of handwaves, so I get your point. At any rate, Aasla was the greatest *sea* *port* city in that part of Alphatia. No real need to rebuild it, at least not there (unless one *wants* to have people falling off the edge). If one was deciding to build a new place on the FCA, one would probably build it along a inland river. "Coasts" no longer exist - you have "edges" as we discussed before. The reason for Aasla's location and promenence is Gone with the Sea. >> If Haven becomes, as you suggested (and I whole-heartedly agree is a major possibility) "New Stonewall," that's a much bigger setback. << Really? If Haven becomes the New Stonewall, at least there will be some people to live in the newly rebuilt Aasla. Haven's 1012 population: 895,000. Most of the "loss" post-WotI being "nuking of Aasla" related, IIRC. So how to re-populate Aasla? What does Mylertendal care if Stonewallers overun the place? She never seemed all that interested in political stuff one way or the other. Plus, if they only overun the northern half, it leaves her and her buddies plenty of space in the southern half (or if they overun the western/southern half, then she and her buddies have the northern/eastern half). > > congrats on solving your conundrums :-) << Thanks. There's a lesson there, btw, but I forget what it is. . . . .. Oh, yah, I know: Getting stumped by how to write/describe something doesn't mean there's no possible way to explain it. Often these ideas come to me, or I'm faced with something that I want or need to depict, and I'm at a loss for how to do it. I find that if I just let ideas percolate for awhile, eventually something will come to me, like a thunderbolt (gotta write down at least small notes, though, otherwise whole good ideas will just disapear while you're working on how to bring them to fruition, then I sit around thinking "darn, I know I had this really cool thing in mind, what the heck was that?" but I never remember it again. So I've taken to putting short little things in my more important files, little "reminder-synopsises"). A couple months later, stuff that one was stuck on almost seems to write itself. Could be that I'm just slow witted (that's why it takes awhile), or that my brain is twisted (thats why I come up with something eventually without really knowing why), or both. Anyhow, like I said, there's a lesson there, perhaps. Or perhaps their isn't, and I'm just rambling in my usual semi-haughty, inane way. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:05:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: AD&D monsters in Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Flipping through the Monster Manual, thinking how many of these critters I hope DON'T make the leap to the 3E MM, I was struck by a feeling that many, many, many of these critters don't really have a place in Mystara. Of course, time and again, it turns out my gut instinct (which always wins, IMC, of course) goes counter to published Mystara material and to the experiences of other people on this list. With that in mind, I wanted to know if people thought the following had a place in Mystara (other than, sure, gated in, flew in from space, et cetera): Aarakocra - I know someone else mentioned these guys on the list recently, but I've never seen them used effectively in a game. Aboleth - Very underdarky (and before that, very World of Greyhawk), but I like them and could see using them in my new campaign. Jackalwere, Wolfwere - I'm a big fan of both these critters (although the Ravenloft Greater Wolfwere is so overpowered, it's silly). Do either of these two have a history in Mystara? Arcane - OK, I don't play Spelljammer, but these guys for some reason seem like they'd be appropriate popping up at trade festivals in Glantri or trading with Serraine. Behir - I dig these guys, too, although I always seem to think they speak, which I guess they don't. Beholder and Beholder-kin - Beholders exist in Mystara, yes? But, please, none of the variants (other than the Eye of the Deep and MAYBE the Spectator ...) Cave Fisher - This seems like a Mystara monster to me for some reason. Dark Elf (Elf, Drow) - Just say "no" to overused villains. (Ah, I remember when they first showed up in G3 ...) Death Knight - Identified with Dragonlance (although they first appeared in the Fiend Folio), I've always liked these guys. Deep Gnome (Svirfneblin), Derro (Dwarf), Duergar - All three of these groups seem, to me, like wastes of Monster Manual entries; they ought to be different cultural variants of established races with write-ups in a given campaign setting. Has anyone used any of these three with any great success in Mystara? Faerie Dragon - Loved them ever since they first appeared in "The Dragon." Ettercap - Another love of mine. These seem like good choices for the Dymark Forest. Githyanki, Githzerai - I can't imagine these guys showing up on Mystara, even though I've always liked them. Hook Horror - The Mystara MC mentions these guys, but I've always thought they were worthless. Is there something to them that I'm missing? Illithid (Mind Flayer) - This is REALLY why I thought to do this list. They're an AD&D staple, but they just seem ... WRONG in Mystara somehow. There's other critters who'd fit their "niche," especially the brain collector ... Anyone think these guys really belong in Mystara? Sahuagin - Another AD&D staple that seems out of place in Mystara, IMO. I'm actually planning on adapting the "Murky Deep" module slotting in shark-kin to replace these guys. Troglodyte - These guys have been around FOREVER, but I can't recall them ever being used effectively. Does anyone have any idea how to seize the imagination using these guys? Zaratan - Call me crazy, but I think these guys are the best, and can't imagine a seagoing adventure without the possibility of sneaking one in, eventually ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:41:04 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: AD&D monsters in Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 10 May 2000 18:05:12 -0700 Beau writes: > Githyanki, Githzerai - I can't imagine these guys showing up on > Mystara, > even though I've always liked them. Go to Shawn's site and look for a piece I did called Gith of Mystara. (under Races I believe) it has how to integrate Gith, Githyanki, and Githzerai into Mystara. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 18:50:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: SilverPrincess Module Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How did people find this link? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SilverPrincess.pdf I looked for links to see if could see other books. However, that last directory is not visible. This book if just plain awesome, and it seems to be more substance that the green version. I wonder if anyone could do a plateau map based from this module. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:49:54 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Fwd: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen IX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aha! Scandalous! Libelous! Lies! Gossip! Untruths! Even the Paparazzi Glantri wouldn't perpetuate such falsities! (We can't wait to see more...) Beatriz Dominatore Paparazzi Glantri www.geocities.com/paparazzi_glantri "Yes, milord, you will have our complete support against such propaganda... publicly, at least." --Gaston du Lac, Paparazzi Glantri, Correspondent on Secrets and Conspiracies ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:07:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Gulluvia (NW of Glantri) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Barony of Gulluvia ruled by the chaotic nightmare Lady D'hmis. What kingdom or empire controls this Barony? Hule? Sind? Denagoth?Another unknown empire? HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:14:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Nature of Misty Swamp? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Misty Swamp and its mysterious powers that seem to cause wild surges. I was wondering about this area and I thought of two ideas, perhaps compatible: 1 - The swamp is home to the Unseelie fey. There are magical properties to warp magic and corrupt nature. This affect is like the nodes in Alfheim, so this could be some sort of node outside of Glantri forest. Wherever the Unseelie roam chaos and corruption of nature follows. 2 - The swamp is a link between Ravenloft and Mystara. Creatures from both planes can cross through given the will of the dark powers. Perhaps a the original Ravenloft adventure could be hosted in this area. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:15:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Nature of Misty Swamp? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Misty Swamp and its mysterious powers that seem to cause wild surges. I was wondering about this area and I thought of two ideas, perhaps compatible: 1 - The swamp is home to the Unseelie fey. There are magical properties to warp magic and corrupt nature. This affect is like the nodes in Alfheim, so this could be some sort of node outside of Canolbarth forest. Wherever the Unseelie roam chaos and corruption of nature follows. 2 - The swamp is a link between Ravenloft and Mystara. Creatures from both planes can cross through given the will of the dark powers. Perhaps a the original Ravenloft adventure could be hosted in this area. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:19:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Misty Swamp Passage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is the passage about Misty Swamp found in the orange module of SilverPrincess: Misty Swamp - No one knows exactly what lies behind the veil of ever present mist that hovers over the swamp. Some old timers say that the dwarves who make Anterian Brandy live in the swamp near their secret ingredient, the swamp water. This is speculation, as no one really knows what the secret ingredient of Anterian Brandy is. Others whisper tales of an evil wizard living there in a massive tower of shiny black stone. Sometimes, in the dead of winter, fierce thunderstorms can be heard near the swamp, but no one ever sees any lightning. The only thing people who live near the swamp will agree on is that most magic users and elves had best stay clear of it or they will find that their spells will not function properly. One young magic user tried to catch a rabbit with a web spell near the swamp one day and ended up with dozens of rabbits, all neatly webbed, scattered about her feet. She didn t really mind having the extra rabbits, but the fact that she couldn t control her magic scared her (as it does many other spell casters). She was one of the fortunate ones; others have not been so lucky. Once a band of daring adventurers ignored warnings not to venture into the swamp. Months later only the cleric returned. He told tales of their battle against creatures made of colored mist, and others that had no visible form at all. He said they constantly fought strange looking creatures with three heads, three arms, and three legs. He told of how their brave elf attempted to cast a magic mis-sile at a beast who was attacking one of the fighters. Suddenly, however, the elf changed into a rhinoceros and wandered away into the swamp. Before any more information could be obtained from the cleric he died. No wounds could be found, and the folks who found him swear he must have been scared to death. The DM can choose how any given spell cast in the swamp will be changed. The effects should be unexpected by the players, but instant-death results should not be used. Suggested effects are: 1. Spell backfires on the caster of the party 2. Spell fails: nothing happens 3. Caster throws a different spell of the same level 4. Spell effect is tripled 5. Caster or a member of the party glows for 24 hours 6. Caster or a party member changed into a creature with hit dice equal to the character s level: lasts 24 hours If the D&D. Expert rules are also being used, effects like 5 and 6 can be removed (once the party has left the swamp) by using a dispel magic spell. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:37:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Design Processes MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >Really, eh? Rebuilding a couple centuries worth of Mylertendal-art wouldn't >be difficult? >Ok, rebuilding some basic buildings, not too much of a problem overall >(though you need people to live in the dump, right? See below), but if it >took X years to create the art junk in the first place, I doubt it'll be a >simple matter to restore it all. Of course, FCA scripting is usually full >of handwaves, so I get your point. > At any rate, Aasla was the greatest *sea* *port* city in that part of >Alphatia. No real need to rebuild it, at least not there (unless one >*wants* to have people falling off the edge). If one was deciding to build >a new place on the FCA, one would probably build it along a inland river. >"Coasts" no longer exist - you have "edges" as we discussed before. The >reason for Aasla's location and promenence is Gone with the Sea. Yeah, I should've said "replacing" Aasla, since the new capital and artistic center is Dovir. Aasla would require at least some rebuilding, perhaps turning it into some sort of massive park or memorial or something. It must look pretty cool right now--a massive charred ruin with beautiful artistic Phantasmal Force effects still scattered all over. Plus, it's still at an important junction and there would likely be a decent-sized town to grow there because of the crossroads (I'm sure at least one of the bridges has been replaced) and because it's the "end of the line" for riverboats. Actually, this would likely be an ideal site for a dam along the rim to form a nice, beautiful lake there. Perhaps that should be Mylertendal's project for restoring beauty to Aasla--after all, who cares if there are ugly ruins underwater? >Really? If Haven becomes the New Stonewall, at least there will be some >people to live in the newly rebuilt Aasla. Only Dynasts need people :-) I think Mylertendal would rather keep commoners out as much as possible, except for the rare ones with artistic talent. >Haven's 1012 population: 895,000. Most of the "loss" post-WotI being >"nuking of Aasla" related, IIRC. So how to re-populate Aasla? What does >Mylertendal care if Stonewallers overun the place? She never seemed all >that interested in political stuff one way or the other. Plus, if they only >overun the northern half, it leaves her and her buddies plenty of space in >the southern half (or if they overun the western/southern half, then she >and her buddies have the northern/eastern half). Except that she's already begun setting Dovir up as the new center of her art movement (and, presumably, the location of her new tower). Aasla, IIRC, was burnt even before the war began, so she's been hard at work for ten years now turning Dovir into the new center of her movement. Also, it's important for her to try to keep as much of her progress as possible--a hundred-mile radius of Dovir at least contains a fair chunk of her old hundred-mile radius from Aasla. She wouldn't mind settlers in the Greenwall Valley or the west coast, but a million refugees would be awfully tough to absorb. Plus, the queen is a personal friend and I think she'd feel guilty if she left her friend high and dry and facing a huge war when she could so clearly do something to stop it. Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 19:47:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: SilverPrincess Module MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >How did people find this link? > >http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SilverPrincess.pdf > >I looked for links to see if could see other books. However, that last directory is not visible. This book if just plain awesome, and it seems to be more substance that the green version. I wonder if anyone could do a plateau map based from this module.> When it was released there was a big ad for it at the D&D site www.wizards.com/dnd/ They also made announcements on a few of the message boards a couple days after releasing it. If you read the intro, it says that this is the first in a series of classic D&D modules (I believe something else says to be released quarterly). IIRC one of WotC's employees specified that this is in line with the new WotC definition of "D&D" to include OD&D and both AD&D editions. Anyway, the next release in this series should come in mid-June if they stick to the "quarterly" thing. BTW--the intro, if you haven't read it yet, is at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_PSP.asp Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 03:04:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: World Domination MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As far as I know, there are no current plans to have Alphatia dominate the > HW, either. > Why is it that I'm so worried by the word 'current' in the above? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 20:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: Re: Gulluvia (NW of Glantri) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Barony of Gulluvia ruled by the chaotic nightmare Lady D'hmis. > >What kingdom or empire controls this Barony? Hule? Sind? Denagoth?Another unknown empire? Well, there was some debate about this on the list soon after it was released. There's some stuff at dnd.starflung.com in the Glantri section (do a search on Gullavia--the authors misspelled it--probably because on the map the "u" looks like an"a"). Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:25:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Straight Subject: Re: AD&D monsters in Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron E Nowack wrote: >Go to Shawn's site and look for a piece I did called Gith of Mystara. >(under Races I believe) it has how to integrate Gith, Githyanki, and >Githzerai into Mystara. To which I respond: I just saw read your article and I found it really interesting. You mentioned that you were converting the Dark Sun module Black Spine to Mystara. Have you done this yet? I've considered picking it up because I thought it looked pretty interesting but I wasn't sure how useful it would be in a Mystara campaign. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. James Straight straightj@prodigy.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 22:54:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeffrey Willis Organization: N/A Subject: Re: Nature of Misty Swamp? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would also be interesting to see how this area affects Wild Mages in general. :) DM's might rule that they have a 50 percent chance to control which result they get, or that their form of magic works normally. :) Or even more wild than the normal mages casting. >The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Misty Swamp and its mysterious powers that seem to cause wild surges. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 23:10:24 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Design Processes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Actually, this would likely be an ideal site for a dam along the rim to form a nice, beautiful lake there. Perhaps that should be Mylertendal's project for restoring beauty to Aasla--after all, who cares if there are ugly ruins underwater?<< Yah, there, now you're talkin - that sounds pretty cool, actually. > >> Only Dynasts need people :-) I think Mylertendal would rather keep commoners out as much as possible, except for the rare ones with artistic talent. << I know, but that was in response to rebuilding the city. If it's going to be a pristine lake, then that's different. > > Except that she's already begun setting Dovir up as the new center of her art movement (and, presumably, the location of her new tower). << Right, which is fine, but it's not the same as starting over where she left off. Anyhow, I'd love to chat more, but the Booting episode is on now. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:25:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Sending to Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 5:02:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scythe@WANADOO.DK writes: << The thing to remember when placing cultures in the Hollow World is that the Hollow World has a council of Immortals that watch over it and created it (and thus have a strong interest in what's going on in there). And if you can't convince this Council that this or that particular culture should be preserved, you won't get away with it (these are some of the most powerful Immortals BTW). So, I guess what I'm saying is that you can't just sneak cultures into the Hollow World without facing repercussions. Of course, who am I to rant; I placed part of the Blackmoor civilization in the Hollow World, complete with technology and that kind of stuff...now, that's hard to justify... >> I had that part taken care of, at least -- the Council was so amused by her ridiculous suggestion (they would have been rolling on the floor if decorum had permitted) that they unanimously agreed to let her get away with it. However, seeing that she was about to create an island full of stuffy Englishmen, they did decide to spice things up by moving some chaotic fairies to the nearest forest.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:53:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: AD&D monsters in Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 9:10:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << Aarakocra - I know someone else mentioned these guys on the list recently, but I've never seen them used effectively in a game.>> They are mentioned in Dragon #200 as living in the Arm of the Immortals. << Aboleth - Very underdarky (and before that, very World of Greyhawk), but I like them and could see using them in my new campaign. >> I would be inclined to exclude them from any normal Mystaran campaign -- although at one point I was plotting a future Mystara setting in which magic items called "collars of aboleth control" featured prominently -- the thing is, these items did not control aboleths but made the wearer subject to control BY aboleths. If you have ever read John Christopher's Tripods trilogy you should have a good idea where I was going with this one. <> No, they don't -- but it would be fun to invent one. << Arcane - OK, I don't play Spelljammer, but these guys for some reason seem like they'd be appropriate popping up at trade festivals in Glantri or trading with Serraine.>> Those are interesting ideas -- although it might be better to have them arrive by means other than spelljammers. << Beholder and Beholder-kin - Beholders exist in Mystara, yes? But, please, none of the variants (other than the Eye of the Deep and MAYBE the Spectator ...) >> The Eye of the Deep certainly exists. I would leave the rest to DM discretion. << Dark Elf (Elf, Drow) - Just say "no" to overused villains. (Ah, I remember when they first showed up in G3 ...) >> They should definitely be excluded, as shadow elves occupy their ecological niche -- unless of course you decide that they are the "dark elves" of the Northern Reaches. Still, I would prefer to sever their connection to other worlds and thus give them a few cultural differences from the drow of other worlds. << Deep Gnome (Svirfneblin), Derro (Dwarf), Duergar - All three of these groups seem, to me, like wastes of Monster Manual entries; they ought to be different cultural variants of established races with write-ups in a given campaign setting. Has anyone used any of these three with any great success in Mystara?>> The derro might be a good approximation to the "Moulder Dwarves" of the Northern Reaches, but the other two races definitely seem out of place on (or should I say under?) Mystara. << Faerie Dragon - Loved them ever since they first appeared in "The Dragon." >> Definitely keep them! <> They don't much impress me -- but I might change my mind if somebody does something interesting with them. << Githyanki, Githzerai - I can't imagine these guys showing up on Mystara, even though I've always liked them.>> They definitely have a strong connection with the non-Mystaran Outer Planes. They shouldn't show up on Mystara unless they are extremely lost -- and even then they would almost be redundant with the diaboli who are already there. But see my later comments on "troglodytes". <> I'm not sure -- you tell me what you find so appealing about the ettercap, and maybe I can find something appealing about these XP donors. <> Prince Etienne drew some adventurers into a nightmare that he had about one of these creatures at one point, but I think that should be the extent of their intrusion into Mystara. <> Agreed -- if they are to be found anywhere on Mystara, it should be well removed from Undersea or any other place where shark-kin live. It is the whole "niche" thing again. << Troglodyte - These guys have been around FOREVER, but I can't recall them ever being used effectively. Does anyone have any idea how to seize the imagination using these guys?>> I would regard them as the degenerate descendants of the Carnifex, permitted to remain on Mystara because they were too primitive to pose a threat to any other intelligent races. Perhaps we could place them in various parts of Davania and have one of them discover the secret of their ancestry and work towards a "restoration" of the glorious and ancient Carnifex/troglodyte civilization? They could fill that role if you prefer not to introduce the various "gith" races to Mystara -- in that case, leave them in your "back pocket" until somebody can come up with some other use for them. << Zaratan - Call me crazy, but I think these guys are the best, and can't imagine a seagoing adventure without the possibility of sneaking one in, eventually ... >> Absolutely! No ocean seems complete without one of these creatures. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:03:48 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: SilverPrincess Module MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am working on it as we speak (24 miles per hex). I would released it before the end of the week, for your comments /approval/critics. Let me know then where you want Haven to be and what i would need to change. I'll do it in ping format for easy communication (if it is all right for everyone). We gonna then exchange our modified version privately and i am sure that we can find a compromise betwenn our different views. As for the author of the stone folks It would be great for him to provide me with his opinion on where he want them to be on the plateau... Darth Darknerd a �crit: > How did people find this link? > > http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SilverPrincess.pdf > > I looked for links to see if could see other books. However, that last directory is not visible. This book if just plain awesome, and it seems to be more substance that the green version. I wonder if anyone could do a plateau map based from this module. > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:24:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Wild mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 7:30:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Yep, thats fair enough, but killing the entire party is OTT. Bear in mind that wild surges are not even all bad, some have quite beneficial effects, and so interpreting one in the most negative way possible really goes against the spirit of what a wild surge is. >> And keep in mind that some of the non-fatal results can be quite traumatic -- such as the one that causes a sex change. That one very much upset the player of the character it happened to in my game.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:24:43 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 8:37:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: << Excellent work here, James! This is a (IMO) logical reason why Stonewall, for its tiny size and apparently inhospitable (compared to southern Alphatia) climate, would have so many people living within its borders. Hmmm...I wonder if any wizards send agents to this kingdom to "retrieve" runaway slaves...? >> Of course they did -- but the mundaners they sent swelled the population of Stonewall even more for some strange reason.... ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:24:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Gulluvia (NW of Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 10:08:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << The SilverPrincess (Orange) module mentions the Barony of Gulluvia ruled by the chaotic nightmare Lady D'hmis. What kingdom or empire controls this Barony? Hule? Sind? Denagoth?Another unknown empire? >> Okay -- What date are you setting for this module? Nominally that region is under the control of Hule as of 1000 AC, but in practice she is probably pretty much independent. My speculations on that region had her wooing the Princes of Glantri in the hope of an eventual reunification with Glantri, and I threw in hints that Princess Juliana might actually be a relative of hers. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:15:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-10 6:07:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: << BTW, just to add one other comment here- a culture doesn't necessarily have to be on the verge of extinction in order to be relocated to the Hollow World. They can be placed there for all sorts of reasons. The Brute-Men weren't placed there; they just happened to be there already.>> But they were -- the timeline just doesn't mention them because it happened after they were already in the Hollow World. Still, some modules suggest that they survived in the Outer World in small groups for thousands of years longer than any Immortal expected them to. << The Icevale Elves and (IIRC) Schattenalfen both migrated to the Hollow World, as did the Beastmen. I would be very surprised if there weren't species and cultures "unique" to the Hollow World, that never had Outer World counterparts. Also, there is at least one precedent for Lupins in the Hollow World already- the Norwold Malamutes, who the Lupin article mentions know of the Hollow World (IIRC). And that's all I'll say about Hollow World Lupins for the time being. :) >> As near as I can tell, the only real alternative to near cultural or physical extinction to ending up in the Hollow World is to find one's own way to it. Except for the Norwold Malamutes (lupins) and Lynxmen (Rakastas), most of those who found their way to the Hollow World by natural means seem to have gotten stuck there and fallen under the Spell of Preservation. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 02:15:08 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Populations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> You do know the current "conventional wisdom" on that Dough Golem, right? "He's way too happy for somebody with no genitalia!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:33:41 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Testers wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed It uses the OD&D tables from the Cyclopedia, with the (optional) addition of the items in AC4 and spells from the AD&D spell compendiums and Dragon magazine. >From: Arminath Wynter >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Testers wanted >Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:59:54 EDT > >Is this generator for D&D or AD&D? Where did you take the tables from, the >Rules Cyclopedia or the AD&D DMG? > >Jim > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:50:04 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: AD&D monsters in Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Aarakocra - I know someone else mentioned these guys on the list recently, >but I've never seen them used effectively in a game. I think the faenare effectively replace them. Probably found in various mountain areas >Beholder and Beholder-kin - Beholders exist in Mystara, yes? But, please, >none of the variants (other than the Eye of the Deep and MAYBE the >Spectator ...) The Eye of the Deep is known in Mystara as the Aquatic Beholder >Cave Fisher - This seems like a Mystara monster to me for some reason. This creature shouldn't have problems fitting in in any undergrund setting. >Dark Elf (Elf, Drow) - Just say "no" to overused villains. (Ah, I remember >when they first showed up in G3 ...) These are replaced by the shadow elves, who have quite a different culture. Maybe you could use these as individual schattenalfen, modified by Atzanteotl into a more powerful form (the shadow elves lack the drows' innate magical abilities) for some horrible price or service. >Death Knight - Identified with Dragonlance (although they first appeared in >the Fiend Folio), I've always liked these guys. These are tied to the Solamnic Knights, but can fit with some modification (I rewrote these once as the spirits of corrupted paladins) >Deep Gnome (Svirfneblin), Derro (Dwarf), Duergar - All three of these >groups seem, to me, like wastes of Monster Manual entries; they ought to be >different cultural variants of established races with write-ups in a given >campaign setting. Has anyone used any of these three with any great success >in Mystara? The Duergar (aren't they the same as Derro?) could be used as Moulder Dwarves. >Faerie Dragon - Loved them ever since they first appeared in "The Dragon." These would make a good addition to the faerie races (consider pixie dragonriders) >Githyanki, Githzerai - I can't imagine these guys showing up on Mystara, >even though I've always liked them. I agree, these don;t realy fit. >Hook Horror - The Mystara MC mentions these guys, but I've always thought >they were worthless. Is there something to them that I'm missing? Some underground races might use them as diggers. >Illithid (Mind Flayer) - This is REALLY why I thought to do this list. >They're an AD&D staple, but they just seem ... WRONG in Mystara somehow. >There's other critters who'd fit their "niche," especially the brain >collector ... Anyone think these guys really belong in Mystara? Brain collectors are solitary and rare monsters; if you want a larger presence of these kinds of creatures, illithids would be good. They could be the descendents of a group of colonists from the Nightmare Dimension >Sahuagin - Another AD&D staple that seems out of place in Mystara, IMO. I'm >actually planning on adapting the "Murky Deep" module slotting in shark-kin >to replace these guys. The sahuagin are replaced by the shark-kin; they could be a distorted relative of theirs, though (maybe they are the end result of the failure of a shark-kin's legs fading; this makes them permanently legged and nasty) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 03:03:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: AD&D monsters in Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-11 2:51:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eyal_fleminger@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << The Duergar (aren't they the same as Derro?) could be used as Moulder Dwarves. >> Definitely not! The Duergar are LE and have psionic powers, while the Derro are CE and have magic-using savants but no clerics. As I indicated in another message, the Derro are a far better approximation to the Moulder dwarves than the duergar are. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:43:11 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Summary of near human races on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Gander wrote: > Patrick wrote: > > >Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show Angel just reminded me :-) > >Although, come to think of it, there really aren't many troglodyte > >references in Mystara, are there? > > > >Patrick > > You know, I can't seem to remember seeing trogs in any of the adventures, > either (except B2 or one of the other dungeon-crawls - perhaps also in a > random encounter table). Mind you, I've placed liberal amounts of them in > one recent adventure in southern Darokin, but I would imagine tribes of > them might live in the Malpheggi Swamp (in Darokin), the Blight Swamp (IMC > these might be some sort of degenerate Outer Being cult - gives another > reason why people don't like to pass through it that often), and possibly > some of the islands in the Sea of Dread (not to mention Davania and other > places). > > Geoff > There are troglodytes on the Isle of Dread, featured in X1. Dave ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:25:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Pscionics in Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] Savage Coast class breakdown) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If they do have it unified, that makes the whole point of psionicists totally moot. I hope they don't... > I think that AD&D2 psionicists are too powerful. As D&D3E is using one unified spell system, it seems unatural to have a seperate "pscionic" system. Therefore, I think having a psionic system that uses powers much in the same way as "wizards" use spells would be the best route. Also it would be consistant with D&D3E. > > > -- > > On Tue, 9 May 2000 21:25:52 Wizards Shopper wrote: > >In a message dated 2000-05-09 7:15:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > > ><< Excellent point regarding multi-classing. I'm not sure about replacing > > psionicists with sorcerors, though. From what I've seen, they don't seem > > the sort that would heavily inhabit Gargona and Saragon. >> > > > >I had a more general replacement in mind. If you look through the available > >Savage Coast material, you will see that the psionicist is regarded as a > >slight variation of the wizard and has most of the same kits available to it. > >From that usage it seems natural to conclude that they would have been > >using sorcerors instead had they been available -- they certainly fit the > >Mystara setting far better than psionicists do. > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > HotBot - Search smarter. > http://www.hotbot.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:31:04 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wild mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > And keep in mind that some of the non-fatal results can be quite traumatic > -- such as the one that causes a sex change. That one very much upset > the player of the character it happened to in my game.... Could be worse. A chronomancer I ran for caused a timestorm and totally rewrote his own history by accident. He ended up with a different kit, different proficiencies, different equipmment, slightly different stats, and yes, he changed sex too. Once a WM is level 5 its fairly unlikely that wild surges like that will be happening, thanks to alternate reality. But weird stuff like that is par for the course really if you want to play a WM - stuff like that happening is to be expected, especially at low level. Some people dont mind, some people do. I'm not saying that you should force people to play WMs after all :) WMs seem quite appropriate for a light hearted swashbuckler, which is the style I usually gravitate towards, so thats why I like them. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:51:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Sending to Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable << So, I guess what I'm saying is that you can't just sneak cultures into the Hollow World without facing repercussions. Of course, = who am I to rant; I placed part of the Blackmoor civilization in the Hollow World, complete with technology and that kind of stuff...now, that's = hard to justify... >> >=20 > I had that part taken care of, at least -- the Council was so amused = by > her ridiculous suggestion (they would have been rolling on the floor = if > decorum had permitted) that they unanimously agreed to let her get > away with it. However, seeing that she was about to create an island > full of stuffy Englishmen, they did decide to spice things up by = moving > some chaotic fairies to the nearest forest.... How very un-in-character... :) I'm afraid that I can't really imagine = Ixion (his royal pompousness) or Ordana (her imperial aloofness) or Hel = (her universal deathness) rolling on the floor... Now Korotiku is the = one who would be rolling, and I CAN imagine Ka joining him. Unanimously? = Spice things up? In the Hollow World? Somehow this seems wrong to me. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 01:24:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Mystaran Almanac: Remembering The Past MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <> In my experience, it is. Not everything goes perfectly smoothly, obviously, but only where you're an involved party does things reach critical levels. <> I'm a very pragmatic person. Thus, when someone apologizes for their behavior, it mean he puts the matter at hand to an end, and the subject is close. And I judge his future behavior on facts, not promises. Like a probation. Of course I'm human, and I tend to view a person on parole with a negative a priori, so you better have to keep your word or I'll quickly judge you didn't change. Now, James, despite you having apologize for your misconduct on some past issue, you keep reminding them to everyone. Thus, it appears to me, you actually have not put things behind after all. In my pragmatic logic, it means your apologies weren't sincere and *you* still hold grudges and can't let go and move on. A mail such as this one (the one I'm replying to) doesn't help. <> about 2 years, I think. The mere fact that you've been onboard for so long a time speaks for itself IMO, and proves that things aren't as gloomy as you put them. <> IMO both compromises are better than the initial ideas, more interesting. That is one of the difficulties with you: even when a compromise has been reached, whatever its value, you keep grumping about it and bringing it back, as though you were still furious that your own idea didn't come to pass. Many of my ideas, and of every other contributor, didn't come to pass or were altered in a radical fashion so as not to bear any resemblence with what we originally had it mind. We like the end result more or less. But even if we think our own original idea was better (which is a normal feeling), we keep that to ourselves and move on. We don't rant incessantly on how things could have been if any and all of our own ideas were used instead. If you think your idea was so good and worth exploring further, then by all means post it to a public forum or a website, and write a whole alternative almanac if you wish. I won't stop you from doing it. Others have done it. There's nothing wrong with it. Just stop whinning about it and accept that the cooperative work known as the Mystaran Almanac didn't follow that course, and there's no point in bringing it back because it's moot now. <> You can't deny that a great deal of the positive things you planned for Thyatis did make their way in the almanac. You wrote all the Thyatian events and effectively got carte blanche for it. I forced you to do some changes, but so did I with other people's work on other areas, including Alphatia (and yes, to remove positive things as well), as is my prerogative as the Almanac Elder. If you want to challenge my position in the MA, then do, or shut up. <> You have tried, and indeed it was better. Still not perfect, as you on occasions forced your way, while playing the victim (by saying, as you are doing right here, that you are trying hard but the others aren't). You on more than one occasion hid behind me, saying that you were only a lowly writer and that I, Herve, was all powerful and would make the final approval, hereby forcing me into choosing sides, something that nobody else but you ever forced me to do (not that i don't often voice my opinion or choose sides, but never before as the result of a "Herve will decide"). So while you may have been on the right road, you still had some way to go IMO. That was what I was saying to you in the mail you are replying to on the open. I must say, such an outing doesn't help your case, quite proving that your progress at being more amiable was fake, not sincere, and that despite what you say you haven't changed much. I am displeased with that "Mystaran Almanac: Remembering The Past" post, and you let me no choice but being rude about it. <> Well, you do re-air. Again, your mentioning this again serves only to show that despite what you say, you haven't put it behind. A solution, however frustrating it was, was worked out, and to my surprise I noticed that that person recently did speak to you, and by this made a step toward reconciliation that I didn't think he would do for a long time. But I doubt he'll like your rehashing that story again here, and by doing it you must have realized you were only blowing on the hot ash. Despite your good words, I don't see how this can be any good. <> Yes, I made a cheap joke at your expense, one I wanted to do for a long time because it had been amusing me for a long time. It was a sarcastic one, the kind that can hurt, the kind you make actually, and I didn't accompany it with a smiley. I stopped writing it half-way, and pondered how you'd take it, and though I thought you may take it wrong, I reread your mail and it made me smile again so I decided to carry on with the joke. Boy, you did take it wrong. Enough that after I apologized (I did, didn't I? If not, at least I explained myself, and I should have apologized - consider that an apology then) you bring it up again. <> Yes, you've improved. And I wasn't critiquing you attitude on that board at any rate. But since it was one of the board you are on that is actually running smoothly despite the number of contributors and the fact that they had a lot of conflicting ideas, I was just asking you to pay special attention to it in the hope that you would see why it worked well and hopefully you would learn something from it. << "Who Was That Masked Man?" It was yours truely, the Evil Porphy. If you don't believe me, check out the archives, see what I wrote. But I neither get appologized too, nor forgiven for past misdeeds, nor credited for being perhaps the only one of those who's been involved in these disputes that's even admitted having been in the wrong, nor credited for trying to be more cooperative and affable about things. My contributions aren't so much welcomed as grudgingly accepted much of the time, and yet if I must say so myself the contributions I made (i.e. to last year's MA) have been greeted by others almost universally positively.>> I stood for you on several occasions, with or without your knowledge. You can't deny that. And I like your contributions, and I've told it to you before. As for being forgiven, it would require you let us forgive. You don't admit you've been wrong if you keep bringing back the subject and how unfair the others were. You ask for forgiveness, but do things that make it impossible for others to forgive. Let go the old grudges, and you'll see the others will do as well. But keep on biting and barking, like you are doing, and things will deteriorate. <> You get the respect you give others. You dismiss other people's opinions with sarcastic comments more often than your turn, but expect them to treat you with respect? How come. You have been prompt to disparage anyone that said something that didn't fit your interpretation. And so did they, in return, of course. If you want to be treated with respect, try starting a spiral of respect rather than one of sarcasm. There's no reason you can't be the one initiating it. BTW, I do respect your opinion on Alphatia. It's a plausible interpretation of the too rare elements we have. I even share some of it. But overall I interpret Alphatia differently than you do. Mine is not benign, mind you, but it's not as dark as yours. I think mine is better than yours, because it explains why Alphatia has existed for so long, while yours as you note is fundamentally flawed. Yours is an oppressive tyranny of the worst sort, where wizards are all powerful and the commoners are crushed without mercy. Mine has a chaotic, fun-loving aristocracy, with some dark elements but mostly they just don't care as long as they are served; thus the commoners are not treated well but they are for the most part not mistreated either but left to their own once they've done their chores that include more than in an average society because they must work for the 20% that do not. Mine isn't very different from a medieval feudal state (and yes, in medieval times people couldn't dress as they wished, and they didn't have happy lives, and they could be killed on a whim of the nobles, and they weren't allowed to carry arms, and they would never see a coin, and...) <> I think you're just pitying yourself. If I had been in charge of the MA when you joined, I would probably have refused you entrance. And yet not only didn't I kick you out, but I even strived to keep you in, despite the occasional problem you cause me, like today. How can you write the above paragraph and not blush in shame? Stop the egocentrism, and face reality. Be nice, and people will be nice. Be fair, and people will be fair. And most of all, be patient, and people will be patient with you too. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:36:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Questions for Geoff Gander and the Almanac Crew MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT I have two map type questions: 1) On the 1016 Alamanc Map of Norwold, I'm having trouble making out the names. Could someone tell me what the abbreviated names are? 2) Comparing the map of Norwold from the Almanac and the map of Littonia(by Geoff Gander), there is something wrong. On the map of Norwold, landsplit river ends in a bay, whereas on the littonia map it does not. What happened? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:50:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Thibault: Wendar type Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT What is the Enchanted Valley marked on the map of Wendar on Thibault Sarlaats homepage? Anyone? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:16:42 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Testers wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I keep gettin a "fatal error" reponse when I try to email you; do you have another address (or is the address below correct)? >From: Diego >To: Eyal Fleminger >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Testers wanted >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 06:06:55 -0700 (PDT) > > > >On Tue, 9 May 2000, Eyal Fleminger wrote: > > > I wrote a D&D treasure generator; I need some volunteers (he he) for > > testing. Also once it's completed, some site to actually place it. Any > > takers? >Sounds interesting! Sign me up. (For testing the generator) > > >-Diego > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:40:50 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Sham Eilan Subject: Back from the dead (again!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFBB56.E69B9240" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFBB56.E69B9240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey everyone. I had truble with my internet provider (death to the = technocrats!) so I lost a lot of mail. Sorry if I failed to responed to = any of the wonderful mails I have missed. I have a new PC now and I hope I'll have less truble with it. Good gaming Morphail ------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFBB56.E69B9240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey everyone. I had truble with my = internet=20 provider (death to the technocrats!) so I lost a lot of mail. Sorry if I = failed=20 to responed to any of the wonderful mails I have missed.
I have a new PC now and I hope I'll = have less=20 truble with it.
 
Good gaming
Morphail
 
------=_NextPart_000_004C_01BFBB56.E69B9240-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:00:33 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Becoming a Lich Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Hello people. Any idea on how to become a Lich (other than being the Glantrian Master of Necromancy)? How did actual mage & clerics Lichs become what they are? And, more extensively, how comes that there are so many different forms of undeads, and there's so little notice on how to become one of them? Yours, Angus ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:14:23 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There's an old Dragon article detailing the process of lichdom (though it requires some modification due to differences between OD&D and AD&D liches - the former have no phylacteries and different levels). As for other undead, Bruce Heard's article on Limbo (I think it was in Dragon #170 or so) contains some details on the origins of specific types of undead. IIRC there's a copy of the latter on Shawn's site. >From: Federico Kaftal >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Becoming a Lich >Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:00:33 CEST > >Hello people. > >Any idea on how to become a Lich (other than being the Glantrian Master of >Necromancy)? How did actual mage & clerics Lichs become what they are? > >And, more extensively, how comes that there are so many different forms of >undeads, and there's so little notice on how to become one of them? > >Yours, > > Angus >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 08:36:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX Subject: Re: Misty Swamp Passage >The DM can choose how any given spell cast in the swamp will be >changed. The effects should be unexpected by the players, but >instant-death results should not be used. Suggested effects are: > 1. Spell backfires on the caster of the party > 2. Spell fails: nothing happens > 3. Caster throws a different spell of the same level > 4. Spell effect is tripled > 5. Caster or a member of the party glows for 24 hours > 6. Caster or a party member changed into a creature with hit > dice equal to the character s level: lasts 24 hours >If the D&D. Expert rules are also being used, effects like 5 and 6 >can be removed (once the party has left the swamp) by using a >dispel magic spell. Sounds like a Wild Magic area. I like the possible Ravenloft link, but I'd infest the swamp with Crimson Mists and other mist/air/invisible creatures. Perhaps there is an entry to the Elemental Plane of Air in a long forgotten temple located somewhere in the swamp. ASEO out ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:16:06 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: WotI 2 (?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Darth Darknerd >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Pscionics in Mystara (was Re: [MYSTARA] Savage Coast > class breakdown) >Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:59:21 -0700 > >I think that AD&D2 psionicists are too powerful. As D&D3E is using one >unified spell system, it seems unatural to have a seperate "pscionic" >system. Therefore, I think having a psionic system that uses powers much >in the same way as "wizards" use spells would be the best route. Also it >would be consistant with D&D3E. > > >-- > >On Tue, 9 May 2000 21:25:52 Wizards Shopper wrote: > >In a message dated 2000-05-09 7:15:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > > ><< Excellent point regarding multi-classing. I'm not sure about >replacing > > psionicists with sorcerors, though. From what I've seen, they don't >seem > > the sort that would heavily inhabit Gargona and Saragon. >> > > > >I had a more general replacement in mind. If you look through the >available > >Savage Coast material, you will see that the psionicist is regarded as a > >slight variation of the wizard and has most of the same kits available to >it. > >From that usage it seems natural to conclude that they would have been > >using sorcerors instead had they been available -- they certainly fit the > >Mystara setting far better than psionicists do. > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > >HotBot - Search smarter. >http://www.hotbot.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:27:52 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Matthew Wang Subject: Troglodytes References (was Summary of near-human races) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know M1 Blizzard's Pass was not necessarily set in Mystara, but the main humaniod enemies there were troglodytes. Wouldn't they also appear in the Malpheggi Swamp? A recent issue of Dragon Magazine also had AD&D 2nd rules for playing a Troyglodyte character. Hope this helps, Matt Wang --- Wizards Shopper wrote: > In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > > << Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show > Angel just reminded me :-) > Although, come to think of it, there really aren't > many troglodyte > references in Mystara, are there? >> > > I don't recall any, but I am sure they live > somewhere on the planet. Has > anyone checked the gazetteers or PWAs for them? > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:31:02 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Mystaran Almanac: Remembering The Past Comments: cc: Herve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Now, James, despite you having apologize for your misconduct on some past issue, you keep reminding them to everyone. Thus, it appears to me, you actually have not put things behind after all. << The assumption here seems to be that I'm the only one that does that. In my experience, that has not been the case. >> In my pragmatic logic, it means your apologies weren't sincere and *you* still hold grudges and can't let go and move on. A mail such as this one (the one I'm replying to) doesn't help. << I know you don't think a mail like this helps. Remember, though, I'm *replying* to someone else's statements (rather than, as it seems you want people to think, bringing things up out of the blue on my own). Messages like this are intended to resolve these things once and for all - but, yes, they always tend to be reacted to the same way ("we did nothing wrong, only you did, so your remarks don't help.") Anyhow, I can tell which direction things are going here. I guess it's like Pembleton said, "talking only makes things worse." > > IMO both compromises are better than the initial ideas, more interesting. > That might be, but that's not how they were greeted at the time. >> That is one of the difficulties with you: even when a compromise has been reached, whatever its value, you keep grumping about it and bringing it back, as though you were still furious that your own idea didn't come to pass. << No (and we'll cut the charade here), you claimed in the message that resulted in this post that I needed to learn compromise - I was using those as examples of compromises *I* proposed, that *others* were adamant against at the time, around which bad feelings were generated as a result. IMO, if things at that time had been greeting in the spirit of compromise and working things out - in the attitude you speak of above (that they're better than the initial ideas, more interesting), then a lot of interpersonal things that subsiquently happened probably wouldn't have. But I'm to blame for that - fine. What lingers with me isn't so much feelings over those issues, but the fact that attitudes shaped by them linger - I was and can be again willing to work with anyone in the Team. I wasn't the one who resigned from groups because I was unwilling to work with any given member of the team (though I was willing to resign for the sake of overall amity and so that the other person would be able to work on the teams that person wanted to - I can go retrieve the messages that I sent on that subject if you don't still have them). I'm more than willing to discuss any topic even with people who I know for a fact have a personal dislike for me (witness the recent participants in the "Alphatia" thread). But I have the reputation for beeing the sole boor on the team. Ok, that's comforting and insures that others don't have to face their own personal demons. >> We don't rant incessantly on how things could have been if any and all of our own ideas were used instead. << A harsh accusation: point out where that's been done. You have my permission to quote back any of my mails containing such things, if you can find them. >> If you want to challenge my position in the MA, then do, or shut up. << I think I'd rather do the latter. In fact, I think, as I said in some mails before, it's time we admitted things weren't working out and that we just went our separate ways, without anger. Indeed, I sent mails like that before going on my vacation some time ago, that we ought to take time and think about whether it's appropriate for me to continue on in the MA Team, but you never replied to them. I couldn't tell what that meant about how you viewed things, but I guess now I know. Anyhow, replying to the rest of what you say would serve no great purpose, except show that the above conclusion is the correct one. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:34:35 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>As near as I can tell, the only real alternative to near cultural or physical extinction to ending up in the Hollow World is to find one's own way to it. Except for the Norwold Malamutes (lupins) and Lynxmen (Rakastas), most of those who found their way to the Hollow World by natural means seem to have gotten stuck there and fallen under the Spell of Preservation. << Except for the HKs, who apparently were well established in the Hollow World for some 30 years before the Alphatians showed up and completely wiped them out. Now how did they manage that? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:35:10 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: WotI 2 (?) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi everyone, I hope nothing has gone wrong just like the last time. I finished typing my message and then I couln't send it, of course my message was gone. Well, on to the more important part. I would like to hear what you all think of the follwing idea: Wrath of the Immortals 2!!. This is what has happened: In my campaign I have a cult (called the Black Rose Cult), who believe that if the sacrifice blood to their Immortal, he will be able to roam the earth in mortal form (so the other Immortals can't find him) but still have Immortal powers. The have to make a sacrife once every so often, but they can also speed it up by instigating a battle (preferably 1000 people on each side) a perform some rituals so the blood in fact is a sacrifice to this Immortal. They base this idea on the teaching of *THE* prophet of this Immortal, the one who started this sect and who is believed to have been seen many, many years after he decided to retreat into the forrest (this is, in short, the history of the existence of the BRC, at least in my campaign). Now, ... this prophet is nothing less then Thanatos in mortal form, who decided to create this sect in Thyatis a long time ago. At the same time, he (or other immortals of the Entorpy sphere) have set similar sect all alomg the KW, with same teachings and believes. They have been able to manipulate things so that all the sects will instigate their "much needed" battles at the same time. What the sect members don't know is that "their" Immortal cannot be "brought" back to live at all. All the Immortals form the sphere of Entropy want is to have massive battles all over the KW at the same time, preferably between followers of Immortals of other spheres. This will decline the power those spheres have and will bring growth to the Sphere of Entropy. What the followers of Thanatos don't know is that one Immortal (I am not sure who yet) has found about this plan and contacted the PCs to invastigate the matter, with his/her help. He/she has also informed other Immortals about this, so, once again, there is a division between Immortals. The Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy on one side and the remaining Immortals on the other (this is made more difficult, and used as an advantage by the Immortals of Entropy, because of the former division of the Wrath of the Immortals; so some Immortals do not want to ally with others (based on the division in WotI), so it will take a long time before they can reach a compromise and form a united front (if they ever can)). If the Immortals of the remaing Sphere do ally, this will cause a conflict, just about the same size of WotI. Do you think this can happen so short after the WotI? And also, do you think this can be made into a conflict the same size of WotI (and the same length, with the same consequences)? Who do you think is the most likely of the Immortals do discovers such a plot and would be willing to stop them? I hope to hear from you soon. Regards, Max ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:41:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Hey everyone. I had truble with my internet provider (death to the technocrats!) so I lost a lot of mail. Sorry if I failed to responed to any of the wonderful mails I have missed. I have a new PC now and I hope I'll have less truble with it. Good gaming Morphail<< How can a new Player Character help you with the internet ? ;-) ===== ule #65. If I must have computer systems with publically available terminals, the maps they display of my complex will have a room clearly marked as the Main Control Room. That room will be the Execution Chamber. The actual main control room will be marked as Sewage Overflow Containment. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 16:42:13 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: Apologies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My apologies, as you can see something did go wrong. I wanted to just send my message but it send the other message as well. Sorry. Max ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:29:43 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Thibault: Wendar type Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit it's Sarlat, no double "a" I think that Marco Dalmonte is the chief on that matter, and by the way i will make a new map of the same region cause he told me (and proved me too ) that there were some mistakes on it (inversion and the like). =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= a �crit: > What is the Enchanted Valley marked on the map of Wendar on Thibault > Sarlaats homepage? Anyone? > H�vard > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:47:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: WotI 2 (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Max Monas writes: >>I hope nothing has gone wrong just like the last time. I finished typing my message and then I couln't send it, of course my message was gone. Well, on to the more important part. I would like to hear what you all think of the follwing idea: Wrath of the Immortals 2!!. This is what has happened: In my campaign I have a cult (called the Black Rose Cult), who believe that if the sacrifice blood to their Immortal, he will be able to roam the earth in mortal form (so the other Immortals can't find him) but still have Immortal powers. The have to make a sacrife once every so often, but they can also speed it up by instigating a battle (preferably 1000 people on each side) a perform some rituals so the blood in fact is a sacrifice to this Immortal. They base this idea on the teaching of *THE* prophet of this Immortal, the one who started this sect and who is believed to have been seen many, many years after he decided to retreat into the forrest (this is, in short, the history of the existence of the BRC, at least in my campaign). Now, ... this prophet is nothing less then Thanatos in mortal form, who decided to create this sect in Thyatis a long time ago. At the same time, he (or other immortals of the Entorpy sphere) have set similar sect all alomg the KW, with same teachings and believes. They have been able to manipulate things so that all the sects will instigate their "much needed" battles at the same time. What the sect members don't know is that "their" Immortal cannot be "brought" back to live at all. All the Immortals form the sphere of Entropy want is to have massive battles all over the KW at the same time, preferably between followers of Immortals of other spheres. This will decline the power those spheres have and will bring growth to the Sphere of Entropy. << Oh, I like this premise very much. I have another idea about this...see below... >>What the followers of Thanatos don't know is that one Immortal (I am not sure who yet) has found about this plan and contacted the PCs to invastigate the matter, with his/her help. He/she has also informed other Immortals about this, so, once again, there is a division between Immortals. The Immortals of the Sphere of Entropy on one side and the remaining Immortals on the other (this is made more difficult, and used as an advantage by the Immortals of Entropy, because of the former division of the Wrath of the Immortals; so some Immortals do not want to ally with others (based on the division in WotI), so it will take a long time before they can reach a compromise and form a united front (if they ever can)). If the Immortals of the remaing Sphere do ally, this will cause a conflict, just about the same size of WotI. << What the immortals don't know (including Thanatos and the entropics) is that Thanatos plan really will work! Except instead of bringing an immortal to Mystara in mortal form, they actually free one of the Outer Beings... The OB then assumes the immortal identity of the patron of the Black Rose Cult, and proceeds to cause havoc on the prime material plane. ... >>Do you think this can happen so short after the WotI? And also, do you think this can be made into a conflict the same size of WotI (and the same length, with the same consequences)? Who do you think is the most likely of the Immortals do discovers such a plot and would be willing to stop them? I hope to hear from you soon. << I do think this can happen. This close after WotI however, most countries are still in the stages of rebuilding, so I don't think that there forces will be all that large or strong (They would of coures, be battle hardened). Hey Thyatis is in a state of civil war during 1016 (according to the MA) so this could be a great lead-in to another world wide conflict...if set up properly. Kara, Ylaruam, and Minrothad can be drawn into these conflicts very easily. These countries may see the Thyatian civil war as an opportunity to grab land while they can (or in Minrothad's case, free itself). Daro, The Five Shires, Rockhome, and Aengmore will be much harder to draw into the conflict. They don't have much at stake here other than the stability of the general region. The Daros should be especially reluctant to participate due to the everpresent threat of Hule. The Norther Reaches can be brought in as mercenary troops for any side you want, as can Irendi, and perhaps even Ethengar. Glantri, I think, has its own problems, and probably won't get involved in an outside conflict at this point (except maybe with Ethengar). They could however, go through their own civil war. The IoD is ripe for this kind of action, and possibly the Hinterlands as well. ===== ule #65. If I must have computer systems with publically available terminals, the maps they display of my complex will have a room clearly marked as the Main Control Room. That room will be the Execution Chamber. The actual main control room will be marked as Sewage Overflow Containment. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:18:09 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Thibault: Wendar type Question In-Reply-To: <391ADFF7.B858A248@club-internet.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 11 May 2000, thibault sarlat wrote: > it's Sarlat, no double "a" > I think that Marco Dalmonte is the chief on that matter, and by the way i > will make a new map of the same region cause he told me (and proved me too ) > that there were some mistakes on it (inversion and the like). I'll be looking forward to seeing the new map! Sorry about the misspelling of your name. So, Marco...can you tell me about the Enchanted Valley? Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect a new one?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:03:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Troglodytes References (was Summary of near-human races)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Matthew Wang wrote: >I know M1 Blizzard's Pass was not necessarily set in >Mystara, but the main humaniod enemies there were >troglodytes. The multiplayer version of M1 (in the back few pages of that module) sets= Blizzard Pass between the Shires and Darokin. A letter column in Dragon h= ad the exact location pinpointed to the pass between Mar and Ringrise. The T= rogs are probably from the Malpheggi swamp, and migrated. Interesting side note- the main villain in that module is a cleric known = only as "the Master"... Hmmm? A Hule connection? Offhand, I'd say that M1 could be staged between 1005 and 1006 AC, when t= he Master's troops invade Darokin. In order to keep the Shires from running = to their aid, he enlists trogs and followers of Stodos of the Icy Wastes to attack Shires villages from their base in Blizzard Pass. Of course, pesky= adventurers ruin that plan, and the Master escapes during one of his visi= ts to the region. = >Wouldn't they also appear in the Malpheggi Swamp? Doubtless. They're also very prominent in the Marshes of Mist in the module XL-1: Qu= est for the Heartstone, so look for them to pop up in the northern kingdom of= Ghyr as soon as I start to send out some more information on that region (hope= fully in the next few months, as 3rd Edition information comes out). ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:09:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Questions for Geoff Gander and the Almanac Crew] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H=E5vard wrote: > >1) On the 1016 Alamanc Map of Norwold, I'm having trouble making out the= >names. Could someone tell me what the abbreviated names are? We could, but then we'd have to kill you. Actually, I'm not too clear on = it myself- I seem to recall having similar difficulties. Beautiful map, thou= gh. BTW, Geoff, I've been meaning to ask how you put all those maps together = to make that one big one. I've got a map project that I'll need to do that w= ith. >2) Comparing the map of Norwold from the Almanac and the map of >Littonia(by Geoff Gander), there is something wrong. On the map of >Norwold, landsplit river ends in a bay, whereas on the littonia map it >does not. What happened? Without recalling for sure, I think the difference may be due to the diff= erent scales. Littonia is on an 8 mi/hex scale, IIRC, while Norwold is 24 mi/he= x. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:44:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <> Okay. They weren't of MA creation anyway, and their behavior predated us. << Of the lot, Broderick was portrayed in a very idealized fashion. This isn't nessissarily bad, because a fantasy world needs heroic types. BUT I think he was given way too prominent a role in mage-happy Alphatian areas (and that did carry over into the MAs, actually).>> It can probably be argued that he rose to such a prominent place because Zandor was so paranoid that he wouldn't give away any power to another wizard, but he was willing to give power to a mere mundaner because he couldn't even imagine he could actually be a threat (he could be crushed as the bug he was)! Then the pivotal role played by Haldemar also helped him plenty, because Haldemar despite his flaws is quite open for an Alphatian aristocrat (he has several non- spellcasting friends and associates, though I doubt his upbringing would let him quite consider them equals). Also, as has been pointed out in that whole Alphatia discussion, it's likely that many of the remaining officers in charge of the Alph army during and especially after WotI are indeed mundaners, as the wizards with the honorific positions promptly abandoned them. In all likelihood Broderick is one such, and several other bodies have others like him at their command, and many among them would support him. Given the weight an army always has on civil govt composition, even in Nace that would likely have weighted in. But it's not the first someone points this out, and [censored by editors ;)]. << Vern, on the other hand: appeared from out of nowhere to become a radical reformer, with no real "foreshadowing" - he shows up so that he can appear at the head of the Jennite revolt and make sure they stay within the "Alphatian Family", not because it is realistic that the Jennites would want to have *anything* to do with the Alphatians once they threw off the yoke, but because it's benificial for the Alphatians (who can't be allowed to suffer any real losses, which brings us to a minor but important asside):>> I have mixed feelings about him too. And growing all the time. Didn't prevent me from using him, sure, but what else could I do? Although you did probably note that things weren't so swell for him in 1016. << The revolt in Esterhold is often pointed to as a "problem" the surface portion of Alphatia has faced - but if it is, then it was a problem without consiquences (until some unknown person encouraged consiquences) - except>> Well, even in a mainland-free Nace, Esterhold is septentrional and negligeable asset. So consequences can hardly be tremendous. <> I know you don't like the term Alphatian citizen, because you're right in saying such a thing doesn't exist. I'd welcome a suggestion for designing what you know it actually stands for, ie Alphatian dudes (regardless of class, but representing all who live in the empire). <> There is no status quo in Esterhold, as it's still a powder-keg. << OtoH, consiquences for upheavals in, say, Thyatis are supposed to be continuous, negative, and more permanent. But in Alphatian territories they blithely go on churning out underwater cities and skyships as if they were built in a factory assembly line, under the assumption that there's no setback. And Esterhold is just the most obvious example (the major market for the raw materiels of the now-NACE areas, as well as source of the vast majority of "finished goods" up and vanishes one day, and it's almost like nothing happened - theres some minor dislocation perhaps, but it would have been an economic catastrophy. Its like if Germany, France, Great Britain, and Italy suddenly vanished from the EU but everyone else went on like nothing happened.)>> Yeah, most economic repercussions were omitted in the PWAs. A shame really. In the MAs we had some, but as it appeared in another thread neither back-dating fixes nor playing out problems with years of delay is quite satisfying. For the most parts, economics and the consequences of the big war were left out of the PWAs, even in Darokin, the only exception being Thyatis (but even there I'm not sure it was done well enough). One problem I ran into with the MA is that few contributors are interested in economics in the game world. And even if there were enough, most gamers also aren't interested. That makes it that much harder to write about it, even though it would create a more interesting and coherent picture, and adventure opportunities. Despite that, we do have a small economics section in the MA, and we try to address the economic issues (especially when they are disruptive, or create adventure opportunities). An example of us addressing such problems is the Notrion grain exports. Now severe economic problems in one area of the Nace doesn't imply that other member nations won't throw their own money out the window. The underwater city expansion is an Aquan thing, and if they want to spend their money that way, who's to prevent them? The fact that there is war or famine between slaves in Esterhold certainly won't stop the wizards and the crown to spend their money on such expenditure. (for the way GB is integrated into the EU, they could as well sink and we wouldn't notice till water starts to pour out of Eurotunnel ;) (actually we have a joke here in France. There is normal time. There is administrative time, which is ten times slower than normal time. And there's European bureaucratic time, which is twelve [now would be 15] times slower than administrative time. Thus, actually it may well be years before the bureaucrats at Brussels would notice those countries' dissapearance. :) << Ramenhotep: I wouldn't exactly put him in the "kindly reformer" catagory. Not my interpretation of the dude. Sure, he's not a catspaw of Aketheti, but that's about all you can say about him. Otherwise, he's more "real" - not afraid to use nasty means (swarms of undead/necromancy plus the Mystaran equivilent of biowarfare on civilians) to get his way. Incongruous, though, as the MML (briefly) discussed in some earlier posts is how he then meekly joins the New Alphatian Empire. If the guy dreams of ruling the entire Isle of Dawn and is half way there, plus getting his finger on one of the more important places in the region (the island of Aeria), all making them more-or-less beholden to him, why give up that dominance just to become a peer of the same guys who's {fundiments} he "saved" and who he wishes to subordinate? No explanation was given or offered for that one - so the conclusion "have to script what benifits Alphatians most" is the only logical one. Again, to repeat what I said at the top of this mail, I'm not blaming you for that, I'm just saying it's "odd". Now a reason for his otherwise inexplicable behavior has to be found.>> Actually his participation in the Nace is not illogical in that perspective, if you read some hints in the MA. Thothia is noted there as being one of the founding members, and the most prominent one. Upon entering it it forced the three IoD city-states in as well, after affubling them with kings of its own choosing. With basically four votes at the council, they are noted as being a powerful voice in the council, and indeed Representative Ragmon of Thothia takes on the role of the de facto council spokesman/head in MA1016. In that light, it seems to me that their particpation is justified: they thought they could control the Nace, ie become the leader of a post-war empire carved out from the Alphatian remnants, but without calling it their empire or directly ruling it so as to not turn the Alphatians rulees (and Empress Eriadna) against them. More on this in the MA1017, of course. << Asteriela & Galatia: Remember where they come from. Remember where they spent the "formative years of their lives". Yes, they're "infected" and "tainted" with a lot of strange, un-Alphatian views on certain things.>> Yes, they're Thyatian, and that's why they fit so well in IoD. << Gratia: Had to be given the character/outlook she had so that the Alphatians would come off looking *good* about Esterhold. Was then almost completely dropped from the plotline in favor of the newly-invented Favian Vern character (what kind of name is "Favian" anyhow?) 'Nuff said.>> Yes, but she's back as queen of Surshield. << Ericall: In DotE & the PWAs he comes across less as a "reformer" than as a guy who's just trying to get by.>> :) yeah, but still <> I think his role in the MA, especially in upcoming ones (we've a lot of ideas with him), will be more interesting in that respect. << Now I *do* have to say something about the MAs, where Memnonic Crystals then go from being a plot mechanism to eliminate Zandor without trouble, and thus a substance magic-users avoid like the plague, to being a way for Alphatians (only!) to use to be able to cast any spell anywhere in the Hollow World. Reason I bring that up? No reason, I guess. I'm just strange and incomprehensible.>> ahhhh, something about the MAs... Hmm, not anywhere in the HW, actually, but only on FCA. I hope you realize that this trick allows me to prevent the Alphs from going around the HW and acting their superior way (whether bullying others into slavery under the imperium, or gentky helping them and protecting them and otherwise policing the HW). Thus I insure the Alphs (or at least the wizards, but they are those who matter) mostly remain contained within the borders of FCA. Since you bring that up without reason but your being stange and incomprehensible, I'll leave it at that for now ;) ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:44:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: James Ruhland <> what's up, doc? <> I love the "too much" ;) Whoa, James just said he can't complain, that really must mean he really can't. I'm sure that's how everybody must have interpreted it, "too much" or not "too much"... At least that does confirm my thinking I wasn't too harsh or censoring or bullying ;) <> Well, I guess that's because I needed to be convinced myself first, and I certainly was one of those that took turns at criticizing your ideas. I am, after all, somewhat Alphatian-biased myself, as I (single-handedly for a long time, too) wrote the events for Nace and FCA. Besides, things didn't quite ever get out of hands for Thyatian events. Should I have stepped in sooner? Maybe. I'm certainly not infaillible. But I did find all discussions enlightening, if often uncontrolled and annoying [not in the sense of boring] or even at times disruptive. Also, I wasn't always the MA elder but a team elder and then the editor [I created a stronger structure (though it's actually somewhat loose in effect) this year in part because it appeared last year that more leadership was needed, both to resolve disputes such as with you or to give people direction and deadlines and stuff, and also to manage the fact that the team was growing in size. <> yeah, I liked that joke. It's very much representative of your opinion, methinks. <> Yet as you discovered yourself, you had to rush some events because of calendar necessity, so that some events did appear to come somewhat out of the blue despite everything. This is something that happened to other areas as well, esp Alphatia. Besides, alphatia even more than Thy is a huge, heterogenous empire. As you wrote Thy16 events almost single-handedly, I hope you appreciate the difficulties I faced when I wrote Alph13-14-15 almost single-handedly too. I'd would have like to show more the buildup of events, highlight the heterogeneity of the empire(s), and add small filler events [something I'm very bad at writing, anyway]. With the help I got from my staff in 1016, we were able to go more into the details of things. Though because of the sheer size of Alphatia, this is still, I admit, insufficient, and we have privileged major events a la PWA (war is declared) to minor ones a la JA (a peasant finds an golden apple). You know I hope for future almanacs to slow the pace and have more filler events (with incencitive to make them adventure hooks). With more writers, and prolific ones like you (or Alex, for Alphatia) that can, unlike me, write filler events, I think we will be able to delve more deeply into the details that will highlight the everyday [or, that of the current days] life in various places. Events like the yatch race last year are example of the kind of things I mean, though of course the goal, for Alphatia, would be to write such one-shot events for various nations of both SW and HW, ones that involve various strata of the pop, etc. << Given the other events that happened in AC 1016, I wanted "positive" things to start in motion at the begining of the year - which also tied in with rationales for the "negative" thing (support for the Crown War among various segments of the society being explained as a reaction to some of the changes that were started earlier).>> yes << Also, IMO the "Economica/DDC report" in the AC 1016 Almanac provides a very good explaination of things (I donno who wrote that section last year, but I really thought what they wrote re. Thyatis got things spot on) - that report in essence says that there are signs a recovery in Thyatis is possible and promising, but there were setbacks &tc. Rather than a smooth process, a turbulent one where people made mistakes (I.E. in JA), learned from them, but made some other miscalculations - but they're on the "right path", just not far along it yet.>> I'm sure he'll be delighted to hear that, especially since if I'm not mistaken (and sorry if I am) that person is the one you had words with. << 2) Given what was originally planned, I think I had cause to fear that if I didn't work fast there wouldn't be much of a Thyatis to "recover" later on - especially given what was planned with respect to Aegos, Thyatian territories on the IoD (major land-grabs by others), what I had heard about what someone was suggesting with regard to the Pearl islands (and, seemingly, Emerond in Davania as well. The joke I have about "NACE discovers the Earth from the module Immortal Storm. Earth immediately petitions to join NACE" becoming more and more apt all the time).>> Yeah, I know that joke too. All your jokes are sarcastic, and though I'm getting used to them now, and can most of the time detect them as such even when they're not marked as jokes, most people don't and take them first degree (ie, you're mocking them and their PoV), and they hate you. Even I sometimes fall for it, and find your remarks very irritating, and find only later (and sometimes probably never, which keeps fuel on the fire) that it was but one of your sarcastic jokes. Oh, James, remember the joke I made at your expanse on the Armies team some time ago (I'm sure you do). Well, the way you felt about it is pretty much the way others take yours, so I'm actually glad I did it because at least it shows you. And despite my apologizing about it, you kept grudge about it [parallel this with your complaint that people still hadn't forgiven you]. <> end emergency medical program ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:34:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Sham Eilan Subject: Re: Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I knew it!!! And all the evil traces to one man, the wealthy wizard- Billius of the Windowed Gates. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Calvin To: Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 4:41 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on Mystara) > >>Hey everyone. I had truble with my internet provider (death to the technocrats!) so I > lost a lot of mail. Sorry if I failed to responed to any of the wonderful mails I have > missed. > I have a new PC now and I hope I'll have less truble with it. > > Good gaming > Morphail<< > > How can a new Player Character help you with the internet ? ;-) > > ===== > ule #65. > If I must have computer systems with publically available terminals, the maps they display of my complex will have a room clearly > marked as the Main Control Room. That room will be the Execution Chamber. The actual main control room will be marked as Sewage > Overflow Containment. > > from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:36:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Federico Kaftal wrote: > > Hello people. > > Any idea on how to become a Lich (other than being the Glantrian Master of > Necromancy)? How did actual mage & clerics Lichs become what they are? > > And, more extensively, how comes that there are so many different forms of > undeads, and there's so little notice on how to become one of them? > Normally, one has to first create and enchant a phylactery, and bind his soul to it, then the prospective lich create a lethal potion, which he imbibes. When he dies, he should raise as a lich. This is from AD&D 2e Monstrous Manual. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 13:19:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Misty Swamp Passage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- On Thu, 11 May 2000 08:36:55 Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX wrote: [snipped passage quoate] > >Sounds like a Wild Magic area. I like the possible Ravenloft link, but I'd >infest the swamp with Crimson Mists and other mist/air/invisible creatures. >Perhaps there is an entry to the Elemental Plane of Air in a long forgotten >temple located somewhere in the swamp. > >ASEO out How about all of the above!! ^__^ 1. Unseelie 2. Ravenloft 3. Funnels to Elemental Plane of Air 4. Long Forgotten Temple 5. Mists and other vaporescent creatures Where do the mists come from and how are they generated. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:57:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Federico Kaftal wrote: > Hello people. > > Any idea on how to become a Lich (other than being the Glantrian Master of > Necromancy)? How did actual mage & clerics Lichs become what they are? > > And, more extensively, how comes that there are so many different forms of > undeads, and there's so little notice on how to become one of them? to become a undead: Skeleton and Zombie: you have to die. then a priest or mage cast an animate dead spell or similar magic. Yu-Ju Zombie: (and an way to become an ghost) a Mage kill a man-sized humanoid with an energy drain. there is a chance he the mage get some dust (matirial component) on his skin. if the mage become affected by the dust then he become a ghost!!!! Lich: the mage or priest have to be 18th level. then a mage has to prepare its Phylactery. with the spells entchant an item, magic jar, permanency and reincarnation. the Phylactery ist something of value. the value depends on the level of the caster. per level it has to cost 1,500gp. the second requiredment the potion (poison) the caster has to create a posion. for this he needs the following spells: wraith form, permanency, cone of cold, freign death and animate dead. when the next full moon is, the mage has to take that poison by drinking it. he dies and the tranzfomation begins. the mage has to make an system chock check. if he fail, (that indicates that some errors in the creation of the potion was) he is only dead. if he is successful he is a lich. note that a priest only get spells, if his god like his goals. a god of dead, evil.......even an god of magic could like it. a lich could create a lot of new magic, items and so on. (he has no constitution problems!!!). Ghoul and Ghast: a victim of a ghoul, someone who was killed by a ghoul become a ghoul. ghast dito. Mummy: to create a mummy, the body should be soaked in carbonate of soda. with spices and resins. organs have to be removed and seald in jars. to become an mummy you have to be someone of impotance. a king, high priest or like that. your only goal is to protect your tomb. a high priest, that is buried in a tomb of a lost temple could protct it before grave robbers for 1000 years. he could also get spells. (in the MC the mummy is LE in all. in my opinion it is LG. his goal is to protect his grave. the "heroes" aree the one who are in his (and my) opinion the grave robbers. even the Paladin!!!). Shadow: someone that is killed by a shadow, by losing str. points ot hp. become a shadow. the body disappers and only the shadow is left. Spectre: a spectre who drains his victim all levels create a new full power spectre. Vampire: a vampire who drains his victim all levels create a new vampire under his controll. the new vampire is like an slave to his master. the new dead body has to buried and lay one day in thi coffin. (this infos are not dealt by the MC, but so is it handelt in our camp. and in most films.) Wight: a wight who drains his victim all levels create a new wight under his controll. the new wight is like an slave to his master. the new wight has only half there former hitdies to a max of 4+3. if it less than there master has to die. then they get the nomal 4+3. for ex. a level 3 fighter is killed by energy drain he becomes a 2HD wight, under the control of the wight, that killed him. if the wigt is killed the new 2HD wight become a normal 4+3 wight. if the level 3 fighter was a level 10 fighter, the he become a 4+3 wight. Wraith: like the wight, but is has a max of HD 5+3. if you need more infos drop me a line. the rules are for Ad&D2th but could also used for OD&D. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:13:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Gith/Black Spine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 10 May 2000 23:25:29 -0400 James Straight writes: > Aaron E Nowack wrote: > >Go to Shawn's site and look for a piece I did called Gith of > Mystara. > >(under Races I believe) it has how to integrate Gith, Githyanki, > and > >Githzerai into Mystara. > > > To which I respond: > > I just saw read your article and I found it really interesting. You > mentioned that you were converting the Dark Sun module Black Spine > to > Mystara. Have you done this yet? I've considered picking it up > because I > thought it looked pretty interesting but I wasn't sure how useful it > would > be in a Mystara campaign. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts > on it. I basically know what I'm going to do withit, but I haven't gotten to write everything up. Basically the module (as written) is about the githyanki trying to build a portal so they can invade Athas. I'm going to use the article I wrote to onvert it to Mystara, andthey will be trying to build a portal to the Pits of Banishment rather than the Astral plane. I plan to set it Sind after the Master's conquest, replacing the slave tribe with Chandra ul-Nervi loyalists, and the Nibenese templars with Hulean agents. As for the module, it is (from reading, I haven't played or ran it) a very interesting module. If you can find it at a reasonable price and you have basic knowledge of Dark Sun, I'd reccomend it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:28:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Emperor Porphyrogenitus Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained >> I love the "too much" ;) Whoa, James just said he can't complain, that really must mean he really can't. I'm sure that's how everybody must have interpreted it, "too much" or not "too much"... At least that does confirm my thinking I wasn't too harsh or censoring or bullying ;) << Well, you know, I wasn't going to go there, rather than re-air things as you say I do I was being amicable. Because - well, *sigh* my memory isn't what it once was, so I could be wrong about what will follow, and in retrospect it was a mistake of mine to finally near the begining of the year delete a huge pile of old mails that had accumulated over the years because I was too lazy to get rid of 'em - so I ended up purging something like 12,000 messages in early january, so now I can't go back and refresh my memory and see how things happened. But how I remember things going is actually much different from how you seem to remember things, and IMO your below statement comes much closer to resembling what I remember than your claims in the last couple messages of how supportive you have been of things: >> Well, I guess that's because I needed to be convinced myself first, and I certainly was one of those that took turns at criticizing your ideas. << It's refreshing to hear you say that, now. >> I'm sure he'll be delighted to hear that, especially since if I'm not mistaken (and sorry if I am) that person is the one you had words with. << Yes, it's nice to see that, then. >> Oh, James, remember the joke I made at your expanse on the Armies team some time ago (I'm sure you do). << It's funny you should bring this up, you know it wasn't the first or last time you've done stuff like that, and most often I can recognize it for what it is and thus ignore it. Odd to bring it up because - well, though I purged my computer of old messages, one of the oddest things happened recently. Occasionally my computer will freeze up, and then when I re-boot it will spit out some odd error/save file, which are sometimes interesting because they'll occasionally contain old junk, half-remembered scribblings, odd forgotten e-mails recieved or sent, etc. amid all the other flotsam and jetsam (odd characters that must make sense to computers, or perhaps they don't which is why the error file is spat up in the first place). One recent one contained an old e-mail you sent, from back long ago. I was amused by it this time, reminiscing. I almost thought of sharing it with you ("Hey, remember this?") - it was full of the same sort of "biting humor" you don't like me doing. Only thi! ! s stuff was written by you. Anyhow, I still have that file somewhere now (like e-mails, I'm kind of lazy deleting those error files. I've got something like 20 of 'em now). Its at my computer at home (I'm currently using some other computer). If you're interested, I can mail it to you. Actually, in general I've found that a lot of the people who point fingers at me on this subject are capable of being *very* derisive and even condecending themselves, but it's considered ok when they do it. Usually I just shrug it off, myself, but when I don't - well, we see what results. >>and despite my apologizing about it, you kept grudge about it [parallel this with your complaint that people still hadn't forgiven you]. << Actually, I don't have a grudge about it - I pointed it out initially because of the message *you* sent *me* (remember, Herve - you say I keep raising this stuff, I won't let it die - but this current thing is in reply to you raising it), hoping there might be some self-recognition on your part as well. Obviously I was mistaken. I also thought that some of the others who were unfortunate innocent bystanders might be interested in an explaination of what happened, since it's not exactly as if they received one before now. Indeed, to circle back, until you re-raised ("re-aired" or whatever) this stuff, I had reached the point of resignation over resolving it. As I said in another missive, I had brought up that we might want to think about some sort of final resolution to this stuff while I was on my vacation, before I left. When I got back I included something in one of my missives asking if you had thought about it, and your response indicated that you didn't know what I was talking about (I can't remember your exact words, sorry), so I just dropped it. And there things layed until you decided to re-air things. Now I completely understand that you're not happy with my reaction, but in this case it was really you who initiated whatever re-airing is going on here, you're just not happy that I've been both open and honest about how I feel, mainly because you don't think I have either a cause, reason, or right to my position on this thing, because you think I'm simply wrong. Well, ok. I get that. On this, from another message, you said: >> I know you don't like the term Alphatian citizen, because you're right in saying such a thing doesn't exist. I'd welcome a suggestion for designing what you know it actually stands for, ie Alphatian dudes (regardless of class, but representing all who live in the empire). << Actually, I mentioned some suggestions a couple times, but it was one of those things where I guess me saying it wasn't welcomed, and repeating it certainly wasn't, so I was ignored and I eventually stopped. The appropriate term for such persons would be "Alphatian subjects". Re. Rammenhotep: << Actually his participation in the Nace is not illogical in that perspective, if you read some hints in the MA. >> Another thing that happens, even when I try to be clear where I'm only refering to "official" published stuff (I *do* sometimes forget), is people then think I'm talking about the MAs, that it's a criticism or reflection on the MAs, etc. Anyhow, I've gotta give up this computer now, so I'll stop here. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 00:18:15 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Troglodytes References (was Summary of near-human races) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 11 May 2000 07:27:52 Matthew Wang wrote: >I know M1 Blizzard's Pass was not necessarily set in >Mystara, but the main humaniod enemies there were >troglodytes. > >Wouldn't they also appear in the Malpheggi Swamp? > >A recent issue of Dragon Magazine also had AD&D 2nd >rules for playing a Troyglodyte character. > >Hope this helps, > >Matt Wang > > >--- Wizards Shopper wrote: >> In a message dated 2000-05-10 12:20:49 AM Eastern >> Daylight Time, >> pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: >> >> << Oh! And Troglodytes! The guy on the tv show >> Angel just reminded me :-) >> Although, come to think of it, there really aren't >> many troglodyte >> references in Mystara, are there? >> >> >> I don't recall any, but I am sure they live >> somewhere on the planet. Has >> anyone checked the gazetteers or PWAs for them? >> I'm speaking only from memory here, but I'm extremely sure that troglodytes make an appearance in one the adventures in B1-9: In Search of Adventure. IIRC its in the adventure that precedes the B1-9 version of the Caves of Chaos/Keep on the Borderlands, because it was just before the PCs entered the evil cleric's 'castle'. I remember this vividly because this was one of my very first D&D sessions (ah - what fond memories :) ) when an old friend of mine sat down as DM and played one-on-one sessions with me. Since I was new to the game I wasn't really catching up on all the clues, and didn't bother to follow the tracks outside the castle even though, as he later admitted, he made very obvious references to it. When he finally lost his patience with me, he made my characters (being the only player I played all the four basic characters) notice a large sign with an pointing arrow on it that said: "This way to the Troglodytes' Cave" :) That worked... And we still the remember the episode fondly (I guess it's been 13 or so years! How time flies...). So I'm *very* sure that Troglodytes *have* been established on Mystara! :) - The Stalker of Alphatia Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 21:24:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Near humans in Hollow World (was Summary of near human races on... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-11 10:35:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: << Except for the HKs, who apparently were well established in the Hollow World for some 30 years before the Alphatians showed up and completely wiped them out. Now how did they manage that? >> As I recall they used their skyships to get in -- they certainly weren't "placed" there -- and at no point were they cut off from the outer world. Vanya and the Heldanners themselves regarded the loss of Stonehaven as a minor setback that could easily be reversed at some point in the future. At this point I can think of exactly one culture whose members were placed in the Hollow World even though they were not in danger of physical or cultural extinction -- that of the Merry Pirates -- and it seems likely that the small groups that were moved there probably were in imminent danger of death. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:25:08 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Troglodytes References (was Summary of near-human ra... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-11 2:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: << The Trogs are probably from the Malpheggi swamp, and migrated. >> Why would you suggest that? Unlike lizard men, troglodytes have no particular reason to get wet, and in fact on other game worlds they actually seem to prefer dry caves and mountains. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:25:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Alphatia and Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-11 2:48:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, hmusseau@YAHOO.COM writes: << I know you don't like the term Alphatian citizen, because you're right in saying such a thing doesn't exist. I'd welcome a suggestion for designing what you know it actually stands for, ie Alphatian dudes (regardless of class, but representing all who live in the empire). >> How about "Alphatian subjects"? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 22:54:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Fwd: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen XI, Act I scene III Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, the anonymous author is busy at work. here is the next installment. Greg Weatherup intermediary ----- Original Message ----- Message-ID: CENSORED Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 CENSORED From: CENSORED > Subject: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen XI, Act I scene III > To: gwxup@excite.com > > Act I > scene III > two gentlemen > the priest > the assistant > crowd > 2 guards > > (the crowd, lead by the priest and followed by the two > gentlemen, approaches the gates of Linden, warded by > two guards) > > CROWD: we want to see Vanserie!!! > > 1st GUARD: who dares to approach this manor? Don't you > know that crowds are prohibited by laws and that our > Prince doesn't receive anyone, unless is arriving a > strict relatives or one of his ministers? > > ASSISTANT (pointing to the priest): this is an holy > man, ready to heal your prince and to bring him on the > true way. > > 1st GUARD (incredolous): er...an HOLY man? What does > this mean, maybe a priest? > > CROWD:yes, it's a priest, and his gods are powerful, > we have seen it!!! > > 2nd GUARD (to the priest): Ah, you must drop all of > your hopes, fool. The Prince will never allow you to > meet him. You were mad to come here. If the Prince > will se you you we'll be crushed by him. Go home and > thanks your god if tonight you'll be still alive. > > PRIEST: but I'm his only chance to recover from his > disease. I came here with good intentions, I'm not > going to harm him...(and begins walking towards the > gate) > > 1st and 2nd GUARD (pointing their swords against the > priest): stop!you cannot enter > > CROWD (beginning to going upset): don't even touch > him, stupid beasts, don't touch him!!! > > 1st GENT (to 2nd GENT): Things are becoming > interesting, my dear > > 2nd GENT: In my humble opinion the priest his on march > straight to a tragic end... > > PRIEST (calming the crowd with some gestures, crowd > suddenly becomes silent): there's no need of arms > reach a result, dear brothers, it's only a matter of > faith...(and suddenly his body is surrounded by a > white aura and he starts walking again) > > 1st GUARD: I had warned you, stupid man (and hits the > priest with his sword, but tha sword breaks against > priest's body)...(astonished)but it's impossible...I > can't believe this. > > 2nd GUARD: you were only lucky...(and tries to hit, > but again the same happened) (astonished)...it's > unbelievable...that strike was fatal...I can't believe > you survived that blow... > > PRIEST: woe upon the unbelievers for they are like > pale monkeys that try to imitate the real man graced > by the kiss of the Powers, recognize your sins and > submit yourselves to the mighty Powers and there could > be still a chance for yours. > > 1st and 2nd GUARDS: (they fall to the ground crying) > we beg your pardon almighty man, we realize you are > right, enter and heal Vanserie > > (but suddenly arises a female voice outside the stage) > Wait, what is happening here? > (and enters on the stage Juliana Vlaardoen) > > Author's note: I realized, surfing in the GPD website, > that Vanserie is not IX of his line but XI. I > apologize for my previous mistake anon. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:50:07 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22L=F3pez_Mercader=2C_Antonio=22?= Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Federico Kaftal wrote: >Shadow: >someone that is killed by a shadow, by losing str. points ot hp. >become a shadow. >the body disappers and only the shadow is left. AFAIK, in OD&D Shadow aren't undead, but constructs! Antonio L=F3pez ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:43:52 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Summary of near human races on Mystara] In-Reply-To: <20000510164801.22103.qmail@aw164.netaddress.usa.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds that > >were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places not > >previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has yet > >"failed" to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, but > >others may have different ideas. > > Muhahahahahahahaaaaaaa! I didn't see if Cthuluhudrew cleared up the reason for the maniacal laugh (560 emails to clear out - oy!), but I'll toss in a mini-spoiler and say the issue has been discussed by the Hutaaka-HWR team... (And hopefully said HWR will be finished within the month or so - sorry I've gone slower than with the other net-HWRs) - Mischa The microchip cannot determine what is right or wrong. A new drug cannot end hatred. No government and no private sector can ever make those facts different. It is only each of us, alone with our consciences, who will shape the American future. - Bill Bradley, 1995 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:44:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In a message dated 2000-05-11 10:35:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: << Except for the HKs, who apparently were well established in the Hollow World for some 30 years before the Alphatians showed up and completely wiped them out. Now how did they manage that? >> >>As I recall they used their skyships to get in -- they certainly weren't "placed" there -- and at no point were they cut off from the outer world. Vanya and the Heldanners themselves regarded the loss of Stonehaven as a minor setback that could easily be reversed at some point in the future. << Granted, but neither were the beastmen "placed" in the HW...they found their own way in. AFAIK they are still protected by the SoP. The SoP doesn't descriminate on "how" a culture got into the HW, it protects that culture once it is "in" the HW, no matter what. That the HKs are not near extinction on the outer world souldn't make a difference either. The SoP is a spell...it doesn't reason, it just performs its duty (or radiates its effects). >>At this point I can think of exactly one culture whose members were placed in the Hollow World even though they were not in danger of physical or cultural extinction -- that of the Merry Pirates -- and it seems likely that the small groups that were moved there probably were in imminent danger of death. << IIRC the Merry Pirates are not really a culture, so to speak, but a conglomeration of many different pirating cultures. Korotiku(sp?) placed them inside of the HW as a sort of experiment. Now, as to what the SoP would do if the Merry Pirates were ever threatened, I have no idea. I would imagine that it would act to preserve them in some fashion. In essence Koritiku created a culture unique to the HW, but the SoP would still protect them. I think that my above point about the HKs is still valid though. Once they are in the HW, they are protected by the SoP. That doesn't mean that they are untouchable. The Alphers can attack them all they want, but they won't drive them (completely) from the HW. The SoP makes that impossible. Look at the town of Colima in the Nightwail series. They are supposedly the only example of their culture left in the HW. They are always being attacked by the Mery Pirates, and should have been destroyed long ago, but something always happens to save them. That is the SoP in work. The same should have applied to the HKs. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:23:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Derek Adam Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich In-Reply-To: <271D69F3A6E8D311BA59002035F028C12526CF@fs-desenv-2.endesa.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting "L�pez Mercader, Antonio" : > >Federico Kaftal wrote: > > >Shadow: > >someone that is killed by a shadow, by losing str. > >points ot hp. become a shadow. the body disappers > and only the shadow is left. > > AFAIK, in OD&D Shadow aren't undead, but constructs! Shadows are not undead in OD&D, but I don't think they're constructs, either. They require magic items to hit them, so they are considered enchanted for purposes of Protection from Evil spells, but I don't remember ever reading an explanation of their origin in any (OD&D) reference. Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), but what their origin is. Perhaps they are dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? We'll probably need an AD&D and OD&D explanation, since they seem to be (slightly) different monsters in each system (one being undead, and the other not). Derek Adam ----------------------------------------------------- This mail was sent through Uniserve's Web Mail at https://members.uniserve.ca/mail/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 09:34:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), but what their origin is. Perhaps they are dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? << Jenn, has a nice write-up about Shadow Mastery on her site. You should check it out. IIRC it does go into what Shadows are and where they come from. Very good stuff. Sorry I can't remember the url, but you should be able to find it from Shawn's site. ===== Rule #65. If I must have computer systems with publically available terminals, the maps they display of my complex will have a room clearly marked as the Main Control Room. That room will be the Execution Chamber. The actual main control room will be marked as Sewage Overflow Containment. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 17:38:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich In-Reply-To: ; from dereka@UNISERVE.COM on Fri, May 12, 2000 at 09:23:51AM -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, May 12, 2000 at 09:23:51AM -0700, Derek Adam wrote: > > Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come > from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), > but what their origin is. Perhaps they are > dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? Sharon did some good work on this a while back, you can read it at http://dnd.starflung.com/shadorig.html gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:45:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Mystaran Almanac: honoring the present MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I'm no list Administrator, but should all this be aired here, or can it perhaps be done privately, or on a MA mailing list of MA authors/editors? I just feel this thread is getting personal, going public with private grievances, and is no longer contributing to MML with new material. If the participants don't agree, than by all means, continue to post. You don't have to send me a long and detailed explanation of why you don't agree, it was just a suggestion. BoBoII MML reader, infrequent poster. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:02:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [Re: [MYSTARA] Troglodytes References (was Summary of near-human ra...] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wizards Shopper wrote: >In a message dated 2000-05-11 2:05:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: > << The Trogs are probably from the Malpheggi swamp, and migrated. >> > >Why would you suggest that? Unlike lizard men, troglodytes have no >particular reason to get wet, and in fact on other game worlds they >actually seem to prefer dry caves and mountains. Ummm... I dunno. I guess I just assumed they must be from the swampy regi= on. They didn't seem like the type to live in the frozen mountain caves depic= ted in M1: Blizzard Pass, at any rate (they're lizards). But now that you mention it, that's a good point about the swamp. Also, t= he lizardmen of Ylaruam are also an example of non-swamp dwellers. I've alwa= ys kind of wondered where the swamp thing came from- certainly there are liz= ard type creatures to be found in and around swamps and marshes, but there ar= e just as many (if not more) in arid climates like deserts... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 13:52:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) >Look at the town of Colima in the Nightwail series. They are supposedly the only example >of their culture left in the HW. They are always being attacked by the Mery Pirates, and >should have been destroyed long ago, but something always happens to save them. That is >the SoP in work. The same should have applied to the HKs. An interesting point - but what do the PWAs say (IIRC, this event was covered in them)? If any HKs do remain in the HW, then more than likely they are a ragtag band trying to survive. Cut off from outside supplies, they have only Vanya to protect them, really. Speaking of which, does anyone remember how many HKs were stationed at Stonehaven? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 18:58:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) In-Reply-To: <200005121752.NAA10203@freenet10.carleton.ca>; from au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA on Fri, May 12, 2000 at 01:52:44PM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, May 12, 2000 at 01:52:44PM -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: > >Look at the town of Colima in the Nightwail series. They are supposedly the only example > >of their culture left in the HW. They are always being attacked by the Mery Pirates, and > >should have been destroyed long ago, but something always happens to save them. That is > >the SoP in work. The same should have applied to the HKs. > > An interesting point - but what do the PWAs say (IIRC, this event was > covered in them)? If any HKs do remain in the HW, then more than likely > they are a ragtag band trying to survive. Cut off from outside supplies, > they have only Vanya to protect them, really. Sounds like a good idea for a campaign actually... Although I do hear A-team music when reading over the last two sentences for some reason :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:06:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Questions for Geoff Gander and the >H�vard wrote: >> >>1) On the 1016 Alamanc Map of Norwold, I'm having trouble making out the >>names. Could someone tell me what the abbreviated names are? Erk! My bad. There were so many dominions to put in, that the font size presented on the map was the largest I could make it without overlapping the map itself. Thanks for the observation, though. Maybe in future drafts someone could turn it into an interactive map (like the Karameikan one on thib's site, where you click on the town and the info pops up....?) Quoth Andrew: >BTW, Geoff, I've been meaning to ask how you put all those maps together to >make that one big one. I've got a map project that I'll need to do that with. Welllll, first I created the .bmp maps (6 of them), using your map template, and then I saved those as .gif images in Paint Shop Pro. After that was done, I opened up Corel Photopaint, created a blank pallette large enough to hold all the images (when you create a new image you can set the parameters such as size, etc.), and pasted each one into this new file. I then dragged them around until they all matched up (a pain in the butt, I tell you), and what was created was a *.cpt file (don't know what it is). This file I saved once more as a .gif. I'd say dragging files and lining them all up took about 2-3 hours alone, and then saving (because the file was so huge, and my computer was wimpy) it took around 20 minutes or so. I was EXTREMELY happy to be done! Luckily, the map is already made, so alterations should take up as much time as before (cross fingers). Havard asked: >>2) Comparing the map of Norwold from the Almanac and the map of >>Littonia(by Geoff Gander), there is something wrong. On the map of >>Norwold, landsplit river ends in a bay, whereas on the littonia map it >>does not. What happened? Andrew said: >Without recalling for sure, I think the difference may be due to the different >scales. Littonia is on an 8 mi/hex scale, IIRC, while Norwold is 24 mi/hex. That's part of it (the scale difference). But also, when you look at Littonia, it's not all that large north-south, and since we are looking at a region outside of Norwold proper, even if there are discrepancies, the larger-scale map could be modified slightly without drastic effects on the campaign world. :-) I mean, look at the trouble associated with the peninsula in Heldann (the one south of Landfall) - that one changed shape at least 2 times (IIRC), depending on which TSR map you looked at. I'd also rationalise the whole thing by saying, this region is so far north, and so little is known about it, that cartographers could easily have made mistakes in mapping it out. :-) Looks like a job for ol' Azlum Swith from CoM! Hope this helps, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:09:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) Gordon wrote: >Sounds like a good idea for a campaign actually... > >Although I do hear A-team music when reading over the last two >sentences for some reason :) *drum roll* "Eighteen men and women, separated from their comrades when their base fell to Alphatian aggression, and forced to survive in a harsh land they do not understand, and surrounded by people they cannot trust. "They are bold, they are valiant, their will to survive is indomitable. "They are..........the V Team!!!!" *more cheesy 80s heroic music, fake explosion sounds, etc.* :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 12:00:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Summary of near human races onMystara] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On the global scale of things, no one wants to decimate the lupins for the very fact that they don't want them in the Hollow World!!! ^___^ -- On Fri, 12 May 2000 11:43:52 Mischa E Gelman wrote: >> >Good point. Any lupins in the Hollow World would have to be breeds that >> >were not described in Bruce Heard's article and/or who live in places not >> >previously detailed. My speculation is that no lupin culture has yet >> >"failed" to the point of qualifying for removal to the Hollow World, but >> >others may have different ideas. >> >> Muhahahahahahahaaaaaaa! > >I didn't see if Cthuluhudrew cleared up the reason for the maniacal laugh >(560 emails to clear out - oy!), but I'll toss in a mini-spoiler and say >the issue has been discussed by the Hutaaka-HWR team... > >(And hopefully said HWR will be finished within the month or so - sorry >I've gone slower than with the other net-HWRs) > > - Mischa > >The microchip cannot determine what is right or wrong. A new drug cannot >end hatred. No government and no private sector can ever make those facts >different. It is only each of us, alone with our consciences, who will >shape the American future. - Bill Bradley, 1995 > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:04:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Summary of near human races onMystara] In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > On the global scale of things, no one wants to decimate the lupins for > the very fact that they don't want them in the Hollow World!!! ^___^ Maybe that explains why no one wipes Glantri off the map... Cheers, Mischa The microchip cannot determine what is right or wrong. A new drug cannot end hatred. No government and no private sector can ever make those facts different. It is only each of us, alone with our consciences, who will shape the American future. - Bill Bradley, 1995 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:29:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: "Country Sites" question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I recently won this accessory off of eBay, and have been really impressed by its utility. Some of the settings will work well in Ylaruam (I was actually surprised by the number of desert settings) and I'm sure the Sargasso Sea setting will be useful at some point. But what I really like is the prison-in-a-swamp setting, the Island of Lost Souls. I was thinking of dropping it into Karameikos, but I realized I know little about the swamp there. Is there any information I should be looking for/know about? And does anyone have any other suggestions on how I could best use this book? And are "City Sites" and "Castle Sites" worth tracking down? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: The Dark Shire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > who? what kind of music is it? mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:01:17 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: WotI 2 (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > What the immortals don't know (including Thanatos and the entropics) is that Thanatos > plan really will work! Except instead of bringing an immortal to Mystara in mortal form, > they actually free one of the Outer Beings... The OB then assumes the > immortal identity of the patron of the Black Rose Cult, and proceeds to cause havoc on > the prime material plane. ... > hey i liked the original plan but this one rocks. maybe when this outer being returns the troglodytes of the world will go through a change and become carnifex again. then the ob will have an even more powerful army and this could help draw some of the other nations into this war. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:26:25 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > An interesting point - but what do the PWAs say (IIRC, this event was > covered in them)? If any HKs do remain in the HW, then more than likely > they are a ragtag band trying to survive. Cut off from outside supplies, > they have only Vanya to protect them, really. Speaking of which, does > anyone remember how many HKs were stationed at Stonehaven? > this got me thinking.does anybody remeber battlestar galactica? maybe these ragtag survivors are being hounded across the hollow world by the alphers and anyone else they abused or who thinks they might gain from them, all the while looking for a safe haven where they can set up a new permanent base and maybe get word to the outside to send help. it could be a good campaign. what do you guys think. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:52:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mortus Subject: Re: WotI 2 (?) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > hey i liked the original plan but this one rocks. > maybe when this outer being returns the troglodytes of the world will go > through a change and become carnifex again. then the ob will have an even > more powerful army and this could help draw some of the other nations into > this war. and hey they could always recruit other lizardkin from all over the world. think of the chaos. oh joy! mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:58:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Greg Weatherup Subject: Fwd: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen XI, Act I Scene IV Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The author is still crankin them out. Greg Weatherup intermediary here only! ----- Original Message ----- Message-ID: CENSORED Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 CENSORED From: CENSORED > Subject: The Death of Vanserie Vlaardoen XI, Act I Scene IV > To: gwxup@excite.com > > Act I > scene IV > just outside Linden > two gentlemen > two guards > the priest > his assistant > crowd > Juliana Vlaardoen > > JULIANA: maybe you didn't understand me, guards. > What's happening here?Why these men are so near to the > tower? Do you remember my father want to not be > disturbed by anyone? > > 1st GUARD: but Milady, there's this man...a > priest...not like those previous false ones...this has > real powers and can use them. Twice we tried to hit > him and twice our swords were broken by his body... > > 2nd GUARD: it's true Milady, it's true. Perhaps this > can be the man who will save Your great father. > > JULIANA(telling to the priest): My father doesn't > believe in your religion...Magic is the religion of my > father...no the magic gifted to you at someother's > will but that magic a wizard can find and master by > himself and with this to achieve knowledge, honor, > power and glory... > > PRIEST: even if your words sound heretically for me, I > know your heart is kind and also I know you don't want > your father will die, for this will happen soon...your > father is going to die...knowledge, honor, power and > glory cannot save him...I can...let me try Juliana... > > JULIANA: My father...he works tirelessy in his > laboratories trying to find a solution, every day more > reclusive while his body more rotted...his illness is > eating him...and uncle Anton and I must watch him... > > PRIEST: let me try Juliana and a new life will begin > four him and for you... > > JULIANA: a lot of times uncle Anton and I tried to > persuade him to meet a priest but he always laughed > saying: "Powers do not exist, power of magic exists > and it's inside me. I'm the only one who can save > myself". But perhaps there's a real Power behind you, > even if I doubt this...try...even if I don't believe > in you...for my blood can't believe...hundreds of > years of traditions tie my feelings like a steel chain > ties the lowest thief...I'm compelled here in this > decaying tower with a decaying father...it's my > legacy...try and may Lady Luck be with you > > 1st GENT (to 2nd GENT): this fool has entered also in > the heart of Juliana. > > 2nd GENT (going upset): no! you are the fool. Your > ears need a cleaning!!! > > PRIEST (entering Linden): Have faith Juliana, have > faith...(but watching outside the stage suddenly > stops) > ( horrified) but THIS what is it? > > (a voice outside the stage, awful): why don't you > watch me more...you have FAITH, don't you? or your > faith isn't enough to suffer such a view... > > JULIANA: Father, what are You doing? anon. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:05:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Wyrd thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Getting the wyrd ready for my players' first dungeon adventure (up to this point, it's been a lot of short wilderness adventures, fighting bandits, kobolds and bargaining with faeries). Any thoughts on the character as presented? (Since I decided that the same wyrd spirit possessed both elf maidens, decades apart, I added in the bit about the non-corporeal spirit only being driven off by an exorcism spell.) THE WYRD Chaotic Evil female undead elf The wyrd has haunted the fort, on and off, for about a century. She appears as a tear-streaked, beautiful, sickly and pale, elf maiden wearing a colorless gown and hooded cape. Although she doesn't use the skills, she has all the skills Alcoyne and Miaplacidus possessed in life, and can play the lute and sing beautifully. She will feign a desire to be freed from her curse, or to inquire after her "beloved" Nicodemus, but truthfully, all she cares about is killing, especially the Callarii elves. Arrogant about her inability to be hurt by non-magical weapons (and secure in the knowledge that she can't be permanently destroyed without an exorcism, even if her current body is slain) the wyrd will begin by being sweet and pretending to be either Alcoyne or Miaplacidus, but will quickly move to tormenting living beings before finally killing them. The wyrd has access to the memories of both Alcoyne and Miaplacidus, and will claim to be either one of them, if it looks as though it might be helpful or even simply amusing. The wyrd has a tendency to sing to herself in Elvish when she's alone. The wyrd speaks Elvish (Callarii accent), Ogrish, Thyatian, Orcish, Goblin Hit Points: 18 Armor Class: 4 I was also thinking that having some skeletons (originally all forest animals) roaming the upper parts of the ruins would be good foreshadowin to the horror down below (since the players will only be expecting goblins ...). While it's my campaign of course, is there any precedent for wyrds retaining any of the spell use abilities of their former selves? Thanks. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:41:35 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>Look at the town of Colima in the Nightwail series. They are supposedly the only example >>of their culture left in the HW. They are always being attacked by the Mery Pirates, and >>should have been destroyed long ago, but something always happens to save them. That is >>the SoP in work. The same should have applied to the HKs. > The only problem I have with that is that it international events in the HW very boring - no culture ever needs fear defeat because the SoP will protect them. Sure, no many realize this, but with Alpahtia there I doubt it will remain a secret indefinitely. Not that the Alphatians are much better mages than anyone else, but they were left with a lot of clues, such as the high-leveled Alphatians who were left with their original memories - wouldn't that cause them to look for the reason why they can remember when nobody else can? Wouldn't this bring the SoP to their attention? I think it might. Besides, the HW existed a long time before it was described, but it didn't matter because the only thing that ever really changed there was when a new culture was added - if this is the way things will stay then why did the Immortals make a plan to have the Alphatians become 'policemen' of the HW (yes, I know many of us dislike or even hate that idea, but it was established, and we must deal with it) ? HW wouldn't need Alphatian 'policemen' to stand against conquests from SW nations if the SoP works this way. And in truth, I think it'll make writing and reading events in the HW very boring - we'll always have to end of with the status quo! (Aarrgghh! Sounds like being trapped in a bad (i.e., where nothing *ever* changes) TV show...) Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:51:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans)] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stalker wrote: > >The only problem I have with that is that it international events in the= >HW very boring - no culture ever needs fear defeat because the SoP will >pro= tect them. = To an extent, yes. But the SoP only preserves a culture- it isn't choosy = about how large a population that entails. So long as elements of the culture survive- through people, through written records or cultural memory- the = SoP has done its duty, but how far does that extend? One or two cities, perha= ps? A handful of people who pass their cultural identity through oral tradition= ? The SoP doesn't care, and that was actually one of the themes of the HWA seri= es of modules, as presented by Colima (among other nations). So what does this mean? That the Milenian Empire, for example, will conti= nue to expand its borders- well into Tanagoro territory (unless, by some chan= ce, the Tanagoro are able to find means to keep them back). It may not happen= soon (as, indeed, it hasn't), but it will happen. And so long as the Tanagoro culture remains in some respect (as above, perhaps two or three hidden ci= ties in the jungles maybe), the SoP won't act in their favor. Recall the examp= le of the Manscorpions from HWA2: Nightrage- there were only a handful of them,= but the SoP acted to preserve them from extinction at the hands of PCs. So one particular culture may not be able to completely dominate the whol= e of the HW, or even convert or encapsulate other cultures like they could on = the Outer World, but they can still effectively take over enormous tracts of = land, and expand their own territory, simply by pushing other cultures to near = (but not over) the brink of extinction. = ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 03:10:30 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Shaham Ilan Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, in accordance to Sharon's work, I wrote up a spell called "Barnart's Reap the Soul" one of its effect can be creating a Shadow. See Shawn's page. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gordon McCormick To: Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Becoming a Lich > On Fri, May 12, 2000 at 09:23:51AM -0700, Derek Adam wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come > > from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), > > but what their origin is. Perhaps they are > > dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? > > Sharon did some good work on this a while back, you can read it at > > http://dnd.starflung.com/shadorig.html > > > gordon > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 21:16:35 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Tzimisce Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >(A lot depends on the wild surge table you use - with only a few minor >modifications the Net Book of Wild Magic has a reasonable one - certainly >better than the ToM version anyway). Hi mystarans, Does some one knows where I can find this netbook? THX! [ ]�s Tzimisce "Hierarch of Entropy and Deity-slayer in weekends" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:09:48 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Karl Subject: the official websight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi all Umm i went to the websight on other worlds and i am begging. Please please get rid of the background it is shocking please ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 19:26:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: Wild Mages MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Go here http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/alex/Handbooks/ --- Tzimisce wrote: > >(A lot depends on the wild surge table you use - with only a few minor > >modifications the Net Book of Wild Magic has a reasonable one - certainly > >better than the ToM version anyway). > > > Hi mystarans, > > Does some one knows where I can find this netbook? > > THX! > > > [ ]�s Tzimisce > "Hierarch of Entropy and Deity-slayer in weekends" > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:04:00 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/00 12:26:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: < base and accounts for its higher population densities in urban areas. those > spells have to come from mages and therefore the mages are feeding the masses. > the mundane classes seem quite content with their place. 2000+ years of the > system with no recorded mundaner uprisings against the social practices. the > only real uprisings have been by occuppied peoples. other uprisings by > alphers have been over conscription in Surshield and raised taxes in Notrion. > and since the mundaners are left to attend to most military matters, they > surely have the means to form an armed revolt against the mages. i mean the > thys managed to do a similar feat under occupied conditions. Just because the mages play a part in the nations economy doesnt mean to say the commoners are beluvved of the mages, and reap all the benefits of the magic. Even a 500 storey magical skyscraper needs its peons, after all.>> likewise "just because" the sources say that they can do something, doesn't mean that they do. it especially doesn't mean they do it to the extremes. alph is a society. like all societies you have a class structure. even societies that promote equality have classes out of necessity as much as the distribution of wealth and power. each class has their place and role in their societies. this relationship requires a need and a sense of fare play between the classes else the society fails. even the elven nations have to have someone to clean the stalls and actually work while the rest frolic and do elven things. <> all of which are assumptions. oh the lack of organised thieves guildes is offered as canon yet for some reason there are thieves in alph. however since mystara is a fantasy setting riddled with magic, the survivability rate of a thief organization should be very low throughout. for some reason though, alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. anyway....mass mind control and such are pretty extreme in my opinion. anyway....there is no mention of such measures being enacted. << As for good/evil being defined by the national standard - is the Azcan Empire good or evil?>> off hand i would say that the azca have social attributes that are evil in the eyes of most mystarans. conversely the fanatical Atz priests probably see nothing wrong with the human sacrifice aspects, seeing it as a necessity. however i am sure that there are numerous azca that despise the sacrifices and see them as evil. it depends upon one's perspective. coincidently similar RW events have a similar approach. both the flying of the Confederate Flag (Stars and Bars) and the naming of places after George Washington have come under fire for their link to slavery. in both cases the complete signifigance of both are overlooked due to some rather overinflated attributes. <<(As a total aside - ESP is not exactly the best spell to use to discover innocence or guilt (read the spell description sometime). Over reliance on ESP and magic in general could lead to large numbers of miscarriages of justice - using ESP even on a 0 level human in this way will give a misleading result around 40% of the time, and its even less accurate against higher level individuals. And as I've already mentioned, ESP is only reliable as the caster - its a fairly standard law IMC that magical evidence is not admissible in court (except in all the worlds magocracies) for just these reasons).>> huh? looking at the spell the affects are pretty straightforward if the target fails his save. since the ESP would be cast as part of an investigation the target would be forced to willingly fail his save lest his resistance be seen as an admission of guilt. plus...given that their are at least two sides in such an investigation the judiciary can simply ESP (or Speak with Dead) the victim and get that perspective. <> i won't dispute that the children are tested for the magical abilities. however i see no evidence that they are taken from their parents. anyway...i seem to recall that magical talents surface at puberty or somewhere about that time. so the would be mages would essentially be of legal age anyway. << Alphatian law seems to split into two categories - Imperial Law and local law. Imperial Law basically protects the rights of wizards, maintains the status quo (translators note - keeps the peons in line (what else can be read into this btw?), sets out the scale of the social order (ie the caste system), handles tax and other such things. Local law is whatever the local ruler wants, providing it doesn't transgress Imperial Law. That alone could cause the above, but "maintaining the status quo...". What laws exactly would there be to do that? Presumably the mundanes have life made difficult for them in a variety of ways just to do that.>> Alph Law is established to differentiate the prosecution between the spellcasters and nonspellcasters. it is not that they are above the general law, they are penalized a bit differently for certain crimes. the crimes are clearly staed as are the punishments. the deviation is seen in what an individual did and what charges are brought against him. in Bluenose a person may be charged for Treason for an act that would have merely drawn a charge of Insolence in Blueside. such deviations in charges versus the actual crime are not unusual. in the US the same crime can often draw differing charges. you have 1st degree murder to 2nd degree manslaughter. you have vehicular homicide. it really matters on the environment that the crime is tried under and what the crime entailed. of course there is also plea bargaining but ESP and such sort of undermine that approach in Mystaran terms. > not to make a mountain out of a molehill but the hair length restriction law > is centered on the slaves. likewise the owner dictates everything to do with > the slave. Uh, no, its for servants as well. Actually there is precious little difference between the two types - the only real difference is that a servant has some discretion as to who his master is, and his master need not necessarily be a spellcaster.>> yes i see that. i forgot to add the "dresscode" addage in regards to RW employers. anyway...the dresscode is not soley centered on the aristocrats. as mentioned the employer can be a nonspellcaster anfd likewise can enforce his dresscode on his employees. feasibly a mundaner merchant or shop owner could mandate what his magist employs wear at work as well. > affiliation to the aristocracy on alph soil. there are similar dress codes in > Darokin and to a degree even Karameikos. servant class hairstyle mandates are > in line with the demands of the employer. that's not unreasonable as > dresscodes are part of the norm for even most RW businesses. if the dresscode > demands are too much then the servant can simply leave that employer to find > work elsewhere. Its still unusual and more than a little fascist to actually have a law prohibiting it. I doubt many peasants in Karameikos can afford cloth of gold robes either, but at least there isn't a law prohibiting them from wearing it should they manage to get hold of some. Peasants in Karameikos have preferences, but thats due to culture, not due to the law. And as for Darokin, they wear whatever they can afford. Theres more to it than that though - what does this rather petty law say about Alphatian society? Its obviously intended to widen the class gaps between mages and mundanes. The Haves and Have Nots.>> i just don't see it as that big of a deal. the material is the key, with no restrictions being placed on clothes of other textile materials. in fact i see it as a mixed blessing as someone wearing spidersilk garb would be visually identified as an aristocrat automatically....thus preventing misidentification. anyway...the aristocrats are the aristocrats and therefore have certain luxeries that are centered upon them and not totally decided upon by the ability to afford them. << Well, lets compare with the only other Mystaran surface nation that actually has slaves and their rights defined in canon material. It happens to be Thyatis somewhat unfortunately. Slaves do have some rights, including they cannot be permamently marred or killed by their owners, either for punishment or as a mark of ownership. They must receive at least minimal food and shelter (and some slaves starve themselves to be rid of a brutal owner - ok, not nice, but its at least they have a getout, Alph slaves dont), they can own some personal possessions, but not more than he can carry (defined as what he can carry when healthy - that does smack of at least some attempt of a fair law), and can purchase his freedom.>> well....i don't like to compare the Thys and Alphs. however the Thys have that "slaves becoming freemen" mentality sans Thincol's rise to emperor. i assume that that method of handling slaves is a Thincol act. i don't recall any references to it predating his rule, nor do i see any reference that he enacted it. anyway...Thys slave laws look pretty good on paper. however if you look at it in its entirety it's actually no better than RW US SPCA mandates and the slave's bid for freedom is still rather difficult. plus i am not too thrilled with the slave and master parting on all that good of terms. i like the Count of Monte Cristo potential where a slave gets his freedom and rises to overcome the former master. << In fact, the Slave of Thyatis has a lot in common with the Servant of Alphatia - in some ways in fact Thyatian slaves have more rights than Alphatian servants. The Alphatian slaves have about the same rights as an Alphatian draft horse.>> not really. the Servant class is essentially free and can change employers, save money to front their own businesses to rise in class, and do as they please as long as the actions are consistent with the terms of their employment. anyway...servants are not neccessarily the lowest class and quite poor. feasibly a servant class employee is a pay check to pay check employee; with banking reserves below the standards of the Gentry and Commoner status. a servant could be a master craftsmen or highly paid employee but for whatever reasons cannot stash away the required cash for class advancement. it's not so out of the ordinary. in the RW there are unfortunately ample examples of high tax bracket employees living pay check to pay check with their income being gobbled up through debt, taxes, and simply the cost of maintaining a certain standard of living. in Alphatia this is probably pretty prevelent in urban areas where it would cost more to live. as for the slaves being treated like livestock, i won't argue that point. to the alphs that is what the slaves are; living possessions. however, you aren't likely see a slave owner killing his horse for no reason either. maybe its just me and my own Southern heritage in this slave dilemma. as a southerner we have that slavery history as well as a better historical understanding of US slave issues than that taught in the public school system. i am a realist in regards to slave statuses, who used slaves, who didn't use slaves, and how slaves were treated and punished. << I'm not really trying to bring up the Thy vs Alph argument here - but it does shoot down your comment that the conditions of slaves in Alphatia are typical in all nations, because they evidently are not.>> well it is a little late to avoid that line of argument. for some reason anytime one aspect of either empire is discussed the Alph vs. Thy comparisons come forth. it really shouldn't as the two are mentally different dispite their apparent similarities. anyway...i do not see how Thy's slave laws unilaterally shoot down my stance in Alph slave practices being so out of the ordinary. if anything Thy's slave laws are the exception to a general practice of slavery where conditions were the whim of the owners and freedom was a fleeting prospect at best. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:04:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/6/00 1:05:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: [snipped for repetition sake] > held accountable. the level of favoritism is not that big a gap. basically it > is established to favor the aristocrat when a commoner commits a crime > against an aristocrat. let's take a gander at it. OK, but is the penalty for striking another mans slave because of a) an infringement of the slaves rights, or b) because he has damaged someone elses property? The moral basis for that law speaks volumes about Alphatian laws and society.>> (b) of course. but i make no arguement that the alphs veiw the slaves as anything more than living possessions. i don't see the issue as all that great a deal as that is a typical aspect of slavery seen throughout real world slave nations. morality is based on perspectives of a given culture. often times this perspective derives from the contemporary RW christian morality. however...alph (and even thy) lack this sense of christian morality and therefore lack the confines of being deemed amoral in christian terms. << As for truth always being uncovered - show me any divination spell that doesnt have a chance of being wrong or misinterpreted. And tell me that you think that all Alphatian diviners in the employ of the constabulary are 100% honest. But thats a different subject (see earlier post).>> i addressed the accuracy of ESP in another message. and i am sure that there are ample opportunities for biased judical officials. however, the DotE set is pretty clear on the use of ESP to get at the truth and the overriding assumption of the charged being innocent until proven guilty. remember my earlier citation of DotE's vagueness and the importance of recognizing what isn't stated as much as what is presented in the tomes. > ASSAULT > a commoner assaulting a noble is penalized the cost to restore the victims > health with 900% added on. > a commoner assaulting another commoner is penalized the basic fine to restore > the victim's health. > a noble assaulting a commoner is penalized the cost of rstoring the victim's > health. > a noble assaulting another noble is penalized the cost of restoring the > victim's health. Just out of interest, what happens if the commoner is unable to pay the required reparations? 900% of the cost is likely to be more than a commoner has, given the limits on what he can own and how much hard currency he is likely to earn.>> that's a good point as there is no mention of what happens if compensation cannot be made. i could assume that loans be granted by alph bankers or loansharks to pay this fine in exchange for repayment, collateral, returned services, or being indentured. of course the court may get involved and alter sentencing or pace compensation out over a period of time....like RW victim's restitution. then there is confiscation of properties and income garnishing to pay the court debt. simply put....it doesn't say so any offerings is purely based on assumptions. however i doubt that slavery would come into play based on a rather simple assault charge. > MURDER > a commoner murdering a noble is penalized all his or her financial interests > to the victim's family and is put to death. > a commoner murdering another commoner is penalized all his or her financial > interests to the victim's family and is put to death. > a noble murdering a commoner is penalized the amount to restore the victim's > health and additionally fined the 900% in compensation. > a noble murdering another noble is penalized all of his or her wealth and put > to death. Although that doesnt cover slaves... But a fine is a slightly different kettle of fish than a death sentence. I wonder what the public reaction would be in the UK if some judge let off a murderer with a fine - and they don't even have the death sentence here so its not so huge a gap.>> well it is not simply a fine. the victim is restored to living status and gets a hefty sum to boot. i don't recall offhand how much a restoration, ressurection, raise dead, etc. spell costs. but i am sure that the 900% in compensation is quite a tidy bundle to the victim's bankbook. anyway...slaves are treated as property and therefore fines are related to compensation to damaged or lost property. if the slave is valued enough by the owner the assessed value should cover the costs of revival or at least to afford the purchase of another slave skilled to perform the same job. otherwise you are insuring a BMW as you would a Pacer. > RAPE > a commoner raping a noble is penalized all his or her financial interests to > the victim's family and is made a slave to the victim. > a commoner raping another commoner is penalized the cost to restore the > victim's health. > a noble raping a commoner is penalized the amount to restore the victim's > health plus the 900% in further compensation. > a noble raping another noble is penalized all of his or her wealth, stripped > of their magical abilities, and made a slave of the victim. Restoring the victims health isnt likely to be so much with this crime (unless you use psionicists as well who can use psychic surgery to patch up the mental trauma). As for "being made a slave of the victim" thats pretty well the right to do whatever you want to him, which can be pretty bad if you happen to be a wizard. All manner of fun tortures could be devised...>> yes the mental damage is key. for the rape of a commoner i think the added penalties come from the defiling of the aristocrat, even by another aristocrat. <<(Incidentally in the case of noble-noble rape, the accused could just duel the victim - assuming the accused really had raped the victim presumably he would be the more powerful).>> good point. though i think that the law would take precedent over the trial and punishment of the charges. of course a more powerful aristocrat that was raped may wish to keep the matter under wraps and exact their justice through a duel. however if the rape victim is the weaker of the two, they would be more vocal in the use of the law to settle the matter over risky life in limb in a duel that had them at a disadvantage. [snipped to save repetition] <> yes....it would have been nice for a bit more detailling. Thy and Alph are way too big and way too complex for the paltry amount of material offered in DotE. however the way the Thy vs. Alph sects have developed noncanon develope is always subject to the bias and prejudices of the person detailling the regions. << Just a quote from a NG... not necessarily my opinion, but just showing that your opinion isnt the only one in the world.. Further, it is the history of the aristocracy, in general, with notable exceptions (George III and Richard III, for example), of representing the interests of their subjects in a much more just, egalitarian, and representative manner than purely democratic and/or autocratic forms of government. It should be remebered that the aristocracy arose from warriors who were willing to risk their lives to defend their own rights and the rights of their countrymen. It was and is unjust not to give those who risk their lives to preserve the state more political power than those either unwilling or unable to do the same.>> ah yes.....but who authored the above? i ask as there is much on the internet and NGs that are less than completely accurate. for example, i could probably use the internet and offer several sites that "disprove the Holocaust ever happened" dispite the evidence. for all its info, the net is still subject to the persons uploading the html. for example the above quote avoids the basis of the founding of fuedal lords. in truthb the nobility was a trade off where armed groups offered their protection to the peasantry in exchange for taxes and crop yeilds. and of course they were protecting the serfs from other armed groups....other nobles. so in truth the fuedal system actually started as a form of a protection racket before developing into chivalry which justified the status of the knight and noble by divine right. > Darokin justice is often dependant upon the profit margin and what can be > handled without causing a big fuss. likewise most Darokin criminal penalties > seem based on financial compensation. of course the higher end crimes draw > the death penalty, imprisonment, or indentured servant status. Is this bad? If you read the Darokin gaz the place seems to be like the model utopian Free Market. It constantly stresses fair play, the abilities of even the poorest to go from rags to riches, etc. etc. Regarding the penalties, bear in mind that fines not only represent an impact on the sentenced individuals wealth - they also include a drop in social status by definition, by the way that Darokinian society works.>> as far as justice, Darokin offers the potential for gold buying justice. though it may sound strange coming from me, it's my opinion that justice in the law should be beyond matters such as money and influence. when coin or prestige do circumvent justice of the law, it should only be the precursory hook to motivate a band of adventurers to right a wrong. << Darokin isn't my favourite nation I must admit because the place is just too darned nice...>> much of the same feelings her ein regards to Darokin. once i'd like to see the merchants get ticked off and invade someone or something to get back into the fantasy setting and move away from the merchant lifestyle. >first, crimes can only be prosecuted legally for the week it > happened. in a land of mages the mage is going to be better equipped to avoid > capture for the week. conversely the mundaner will find escaping justice very > difficult if the magocracy wants him or her badly enough. then there are the > legal powers offered the domain rulers within their own domains. likewise the > mundaner will find himself autmatically presumed guilty when the crime > involves a mage. It does favour the mage class - but aside from who can assume the throne of noble, thats the only real discrimination there. Mages arent necessarily better equipped to evade capture. I would have thought thieves would be (not least because if they are a member of one of Glantri's many guilds they get the backing of the guild (and the aristos who support/use the guild) through covert means.>> well....a typical mage can feasibly have access to spells to evade capture. likewise they are less likely to be pursued if their actions are deemed magely acceptable....the excuse being that they evaded capture. i say this as the mages are essentially a class upon itself in glantri.....much like a guild. there's a great dea of revelry between the mages and therefore the foundations for mages to cover each other's back. << I'm not saying Glantri is a paragon of justice and fair play. But Glantri only really discriminates against priests, not against mundanes. Mundanes have a definite place in Glantrian society - and in fact occupy important positions and have a fair bit of clout to boot. Jaggar has a fair bit of respect for mundaners, the Ethie princes do as well, the elven princesses doubtless would (Carlotina is just nice, Carnelia runs the MMafia, which doubtless includes a fair few nonmages).>> well i tink the interesting aspect about glantri is that officially the gap between mage and mundaner is slight. the government going to extremes to encourage a degree of evenhandedness. however the mages are the controlling force in glantri and therefore are going to look after their own interests. afterall glantri's history is ripe with putting the mundaners in their place to preserve the magocracy. > the least gave them the benefit of the doubt in accusations. > anyway....Kara is scripted to be the wonder-kingdom for Brun and Mystara. > therefore it cannot do any wrong despite the precedent in troubles that under > the name of any other nation would be considered a hotbed for trouble and > corruption. I agree entirely with the last comment. However, given your views on Alphatia you can hardly complain complain about how a nation is presented. Even if presented in a bad light, Karameikos is intrinsically fairer than Alphatia, simply by virtue of how its laws work. And saying that its corrupt - ok, thats bad, but its not as bad as a legal system where you dont need to be corrupt to get away with murder...>> i agree that it is fairer. however it was scripted as such. in many ways i see Kara as being intended to be the morale standard of mystara. this is because the author also authored DotE, HW box, and WotI. my problem is that Kara is made up to be so fair and righteous despite its own stated nearsightedness and its national makeup. btw this makeup should be further muddied by the influx of alph and alfheim refugees residing there after wrath.....but i digress. as for the rest...well i have spoken on the alph legal system and its tendency to fix whatever was broken (either physically or property wise) and added compensation. so i won't go into that again. > actually he has to pay the amount to restore the victim to his previous > health and provide financial compensation (fine 1 x10). multiplying the the > costs of casting the restorative spells by ten is a rather hefty fine. Financial compensation would be a new peon of equal worth - plus a fine. Not more than 1000gp I would hazard for the most beloved of slaves.>> it depends on the slave. if it is a common run of the mill stable boy or house servant then a slave swap may be in order. anyway...the lost slave would be replaced based on the declared value in the registry. the value depends upon the mage. a slave cook capable of whipping up a cherished dish or even favorite concubine may be valued at a grotesque value. <> i agree with you there. use allowed raise dead type spells but at a cost more dependant upon compensatory quests than outright payment in coin. for instance my high level clerics rarely had a raise dead spell in their granted spell list unless the Immortals (cough cough the DM) had "foreseen" a need that even the cleric did not see at the time. back in my gaming days we had an alph justice scenario develope. a fighter type was slain by a mage in an altercation between two rival mages...one of which the fighter was allied to. the judiciary investigated the slaying and ruled against the mage. via immortal guidance (Razud) the fighter was revived but using a reincarnation spell. he came back as an elf and established himself as a noted spellcasting fighter. as he became more powerful, he began a covert warof vengence against the mage that had killed him....the situation in the rivallry had worsened since then. in the end the reincarnated fighter had destroyed the mage's prestige, finances, and family life well within the constrains of alph law. he finished off the matter via a duel where he divulged his identity. there's more to it than that...but alot can be drawn from the Count of Monte Cristo. > the aristocrat is surely to be recognized as being an aristocrat as he or she > will undoubtely be decked out in the aristocrat spidersilk garb and clearly > notes them as being of the aristocracy. Well, it is deemed worthy of prosecution. The crime is "insolence", ie dont insult the man. If he honestly considers himself to be insulted, than the slave is guilty.>> it is deemed worthy of prosecution or death only if the mage sees it as being worthy of bothering with. since the "lord/lady" term is the generic term for a aristocrat there is nothing wrong that the commoner did. therefore in an alpher court the commoner would prevail. a slave is a bit more troublesome as i have to wonder if in legal terms the slave is considered a person enough to be charged or would his owner be held accountable in some way for the slave's attitude. of course the offended aristo could simply blast the offending slave and cough up the coinage. > << I doubt Sherlane of Karameikos could get away with whipping his peons if > they mispronounced his title - not if it was a regular thing, enshrined in > the law. Before too long the peons would be petitioning their King, and > something would (theoretically) be done.>> > > it has already been done several times with little reaction from Stefan. Stefan didn't know about Ludwig (allegedly - ya gotta luv these plot twists). Ludwig went out of his way to cover up what he did - because if he didnt, he would be nailed to the wall (and in the end this happened). Thats a case of massive corruption, not a case of an unjust legal system.>> nah....iirc the reports were forwarded to him but he chose to ignore them..."cousin ludwig would never do that". anyway alot of the whole Kara thing boils down to scripting for a then future use as the bastion of mystaran ideals in a post wrath environment. > > actually canon sources beyond those written by Aaron Allston cite the > > Thyatian corruption as a key attribute. corruption is also given as the > > motivation for so many Thys leaving the empire to travel to other parts of > > Brun and set up their Thy derived minorities there (Darokin, Glantri, > Wendar, > > Kara, etc.). Once more the point has totally missed you. If Thyatis really was a total hellhole where the elites didnt give a damn about their peons, there wouldnt be any bread money at all. Thats the point I was making.>> no i did not miss the point. the elites are not funding the bread....the thy government is. the move is a rather inexpensive means at crowd control and appeasement at the masses of citizens. when was the bread program established? beats me as it is not listed. it could be as old as the empire or merely a relatively new mandate to bolster the privilage of the citizenry. anyway...during wrath the program went to crap thanks to corrupt mishandling of the funds and bread production facilities. given that thy was embroilled in a pretty hectic war...i really don't see it as that big a deal as the resources for the bread would surely be stressed to begin with. [snip] > Not for the peons. They are just scum, treated with the same dignity and > respect as sheep or cattle. They are subhuman in aristo eyes - their lives > are worth no more than a handful of gold.>> > > more assumptions. OK, read the description on Slave and tell me why they arent considered to be subhuman. Actually, doesnt matter, you have already responded and labelled them as subhuman yourself, so I'll assume you agree with me :)>> i don't dispute the veiw of the slaves. what i dispute is the view of the peon mundaners. had you distinguished the peon to be the slaves then their would have been no objections. > < they arent armed with bagpipes and daggers, the incredible backtrack on the > logical conclusions of the above on the Alpher legal system is astounding.>> > > jeez...more of that crap. it amazes me that of an entire paragraph on alph > military that one sentence is used to demonstrate the alpher military dispite > it being used as a means to describe what the alph military isn't. other > practical references and the "renown pikemen...axemen" references are quickly > overlooked. as are the attributes of the same society that would require the > nonspellcasters to be as individualistic as their aristocratic counterparts. Well, there is a point there I think. Weigh up the evidence for and against the issues of a) is the life of a mundaner sheer hell, and>> no where does it say in DM terms that life for a nonspellcasting alphatian is sheer hell. any discrepencies between the aristos and mundaners are consistent with the status of commoner and noble in other cultures (both real and mystaran). add to this misconceptions and the gap is broadened. << b) is the Alphatian army a mean, lean fighting machine?? asside from wondering how the military was dragged into this, i can cite many instances why the alph fightng forces are up to par. however yall have heard those before and i am not restating them and escalating this already broadening thread into another level. > I reckon Alphatia could well be like South Vietnam. Rich nobles, scum in > the streets, laws made up on the fly. As for the mindset, remember the > suspected VC shot by the police chief on TV? The difference is in Alphatia > at least he would get the benefit of an ESP spell (and remember folks, an > ESP spell is only as reliable as the mage casting it - an ESPing wiz is > effectively just another witness.) >> > > funny....that sounds a bit thyatian. Well, no Thyatian can off another Thyatian on a whim, not even the nobles - and not even to criminals. Thats the main point I was raising.>> hmm....the problem is that "whim" is used. it is assumed that the alph aristos relish running through the streets offing mundaners like sporting clays. that's a very big assumption with little backing to support it. >but seriously the above is based upon > assumptions. the use of ESP to determine innocent or guilt is rather > straightforward. deviations in interpreting the law is dependant upon what a > crime is charged as and what kingdom it is judged in...based on the general > mindset of the kingdoms. for the simple act of being rude to an aristocrat > the charge may vary. kingdoms such as Arogansa might warrant a charge of > treason where in Theranderol, Randel, Bettellyn, or even Blackheart it may > warrant a charge of insolance. you also have to look at the aristocrats > involved. some may see no offense, some may see some but not worthy of formal > charges, others may see a minor incident as being much more, yet others may > see it as such but seek their own form of justice. Yep, but throwing your fortunes to the tender mercies of the mage concerned isn't exactly fair. They may or may not prosecute, but the fact is you have to keep your nose clean and toe the line, or you WILL eventually come a cropper and be put firmly in your place - with the rest of the peons. >> since assumptions are being tossed about. i assume that there must be some insurance to secure that a degree of impartiality is used in the judicial system. the glantrians have their representatives anchored to faithful servitude to their nobles sans an enchanted stone....one that cannot be dispelled and is fatal if removed. surely the alphs have something set up to insure the sanctity of the judiciary. if not for the mundaners then to insure that an aristo won't use the law to take out a rival that he cannot oppose openly. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:04:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and... bla...a compilation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOTE- i cut and snipped the devil out of this thing for brevity and ease on the eyes and to prevent repetition. i also took the liberty of combining the two James resondant mails. In a message dated 5/6/00 1:24:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: <> actually the word layout was right...i just left in an added "e" which made an intended "not" into the resultant "note", thus confusing the matter. anyway....the meaning is essentially understood so i digress. <> no one said that you didn't have a right for your own opinions or interpretations of said material. however i expect a similar respect to be offered. the truth is that you take the setting far too seriously, taking a good degree of umbrage at any implied or remotely pertinent references against Thy. likewise for for someone that is so craving of individual perception of said materials, you come across as quite "insistant" upon you perspective of things. as for any personal attacks upon your perception of things....the truth is that i could care less. that's not to be callous or anything...just a simple and honest admission on my part. afterall my mystaran related material isn't going to fall to pieces just because James doesn't approve. if remember correctly we haven't "discussed" anything in quite some time...and my initial response to this thread was to Rob. i only responded to your response for a few certain details. several of which revolve around some MA material that i am working on. <> i cannot speak for others but i don't make it a habit to quote reference sources. i don't have the time to search through reference materials to ply partial references to be interpretted to support my stance. the way DotE is set up you can have enough leeway to do such things to the material. i have real life obligations to meet....all of which limit my online time. most of the time, i have to squeeze in time at work and respond offline. heck i have been working on responding to these various mails for a couple days now during work whenever time allows. << Point is, D&D Alignments aren't relitavistic. People might not like that, but, like a lot of things, that's not my problem. So rather than go into it more here (I've been told alignment discussions are boring as well as pointless), I'll just leave it at that.>> i agree to a point. alignments in general are a bit overused and prone to misrepresenting a pc or npc based on the alignment parameters and the perception of law, chaos, good, and evil. i'd prefer to let a pc/npc's actions dictate alignments instead of alignments dictating the actions of the character. ad&d's addition of the evil and law spheres helped in distinguishing an alignment however it still isn't perfect. either way we rarely used alignments back in the old gaming days. <> the difference is that Eruul is not the one citing this relevation. were he the speaker i would say that that is how he felt based on his own experiences and opinions. <> but does that mean that the would be mages are whisked away from their families? it's a bording school....not too unusual for what is being taught. << Again, rather than repeat myself and my quotations, I simply refer you to the posts I've already made on the subject, and the references therin quoting passages from DotE; similar passages are almost completely absent from all other Gazeteers - even in much derided Thyatis, where there are some, the indications aren't nearly as harsh and grim as with respect to Alphatia (". . .they treat their slaves as we treat our convicts, and treat their freemen as we treat our slaves. They are often a cruel people." Player's Guide to Alphatia, p.2).>> iirc that reference was an in-character quote from an Ierendian (i think). given the speaker is not alphatian and therefore not privy to the alpher mindset the alpher class structure may very well be seen as being oppressive. as for the striking precedent of DotE and its passages, there really isn't a standardized format within the Gazs. the format seems to vary from writer to writer. << Also, others (such as yourself) are allowed to bring in historical analogies to support their case - but, seemingly, it is objected too when I do that. Well, that (what I described) was historical reality in many places: you had to watch who you offended, or you'd find yourself expropriated from.>> it depends upon the historical scenarios used and what it is to be used for. given that history tends to repeat its to the point where differing historical scenarios can be used for a similar situation, multiple interpretations are subject to arrise there as well. depending upon your interpretation of the Mystaran material and the RW material. <> actually i have no problem in rewording the original message and even expanding upon it just to be on the safe side. in short; Karameikos is penned as the happy feel good kingdom of the then dawning ad&d mystara. this is quite strange as even in its duchy state, Kara should have been a veritable powder keg through the stated agitation seen in the two primary peoples. the situation should have worsened as the population was further complicated by the addition of alphers and elves. << >> a commoner raping another commoner is penalized the cost to restore the victim's health.<< Actually, it never specifically says anything in these laws about health. It says "restore them to as close to their previous state as possible," which in many of these cases might just be mind-wiping them to forget what happened to them.>> well to me the "restore them to as close to their previous state as possible" implies restoration of health. i don't think that that is too farflung an assumption. you wanted quotes, howabout this one straight from the pages of the handy Funk & Wagnalls standard desk dictionary: STATE: n 1. Mode of existance as determined by circumstances, external, internal; nature; condition; situation. 2. Frame of mind, mood. 3. Mode or style of living. HEALTH: n 1. Freddom from defect or disease. 2. General condition of body or mind. HEAL: v 1. To restore to health or soundness. 2. To bring about the remedy or cure of. 3. To remedy or mend. 4. To cleanse of grief, sin, worry, etc. RESTORE: v 1. To bring into existence or effect again. 2. To bring back to a former or original condition, appearance, etc. 3. To put back in a former place or position; reinstate. 4. To bring back to health and vigor. 5. To give back something lost or taken away. > > Blackheart was offered as it seemed the best choice where evil could be recognized by all of alphatian society. << Yes - Wizards from all over Alphatia travel there when they want to conduct experiments that they wish to hide from the light of day. Doesn't really speak well of them, except to the degree that it does show that some of them do have a sense of shame.>> actually i see no references to Blackheart as a temporary haven for the malicious magical practices. if anything the kingdom is composed of permanent wizard residences where they have an established place to carry out their researches in privacy. it is added that some and even most wizards here are prone to darker magics and nefarious projects. however i see Blackheart as being not too dissimilar from Thy's Sclaras mages and their estates. <> i actually would not mind seeing that happening. more precisely i would like to see a bit of a dialog between the MML and Aaron Allston. we actually spoke of this sometime last year if i remember correctly. i have been to one of his web sites and to me he came off as being rather focused upon his novels than his work in Mystaran RPGs. i don't even recall mention of them being listed on the site. because of this perception of distancing and the passage of time, i am doubtful that such an exchange of dialog would be attainable to the levels we need. in actuality we have a veritable bastion of information on the creative process. Bruce is amongst us and able to give a bit of insight if he wants to. likewise Miss Ann use to frequent these grounds...and may still. I think that it would be pretty interesting to get the developement team into such unified dialog. >> citizenship. and yes the alphs do have their system of dole. The Bellissarian Bread Basket and south eastern kingdoms provide ample grains for the populace. all are provided to the population for the basic diet. that reference is in DotE but i do not recall where it is exactly. << I don't recall any reference in DotE to it being "provided to the population" for free, which doesn't mean their isn't such a reference - but I'd be greatful if you could provide the page number.>> i don't have the source material handy. however iirc the alpher dole comes from several references. one is from the section where the alphatian populations are stated as being exempt from the standard rules on population densities due to the high yeild of its agricultural base through magic and the abundance of grains being made available to the masses. there is also mention of the bulk of the alph diet comprising of grains in the food and beverage section. add to this the presence of the tenements and references to imperial gold buying grain, i am sure that there is some sort of dole system in evidence. i am not saying that there is a series of imperial based DSS offices or even an empire wide welfare system. what i am saying is that food is cheap and the aristos probably are allotted rations of the staple foods for consumption for themselves and their servants. additional foodstuffs must be bought. if i have a chance i'll scour through the sources and see if i can find the specifics. << more assumptions. >> That when someone makes a reference to DotE's depiction of things you term it "more assumptions" is quite telling. . .so far things have gone fairly well in these discussions this time, but your tendency to just dismiss people's statements without bothering to refute them I find distressing. Anyhow, since the last thing I want is for things to devolve into another spitefest, I'll just leave it at that.>> i used "assumptions" for a very specific reason. as mentioned there is a good deal of leeway in interpretation in DotE. therefore there is reason for reasonable intepretation of a section as to fit the scenario. however i did not want to use "mis-interpretation" or similar responses as it denotes the "i am right you are wrong" stance. as intented the response was to recognize that the excerpt or response could be interpreted as such but i interpretted it differently. how did i interpret it? well...dispite the author's (Allston) thesis that alpher mundaners are utterly repressed, his own arguement is rather lacking in support structure within the alph sections. the only thing that he was supported in was the differences between the aristos and mundaners. however the "oppressed mundanes" are not so utterly oppressed as he cites in his in-character passages and thesis. >> note the word "can" is used and that does not mean they do. << If they don't have such an inclination then there'd be no reason to explicitly point out that they can kill slaves at any time for any reason or none - one of the, possibly few, very clear and not at all vague statements in DotE (p.16, Player's Guide to Alphatia, under "Classes of Society," in the description of Slaves).>> actually i think that that phrase was added to further demonstrate the status of slaves instead of being intended as a popular excercise of the alphs. the key comparison point is that alph slaves are true slaves, as compared to the quasi-indentured servant he presents for the Thy slaves. sort of like how the Thy slave section goes to the lengths to lay out the Slave Laws but adds that slave owners may trick the slaves out of their savings. i don't remember the exact wording or if it is in the PG or Dm's book....but it is there. >> however i would add that slavery is legal in alphatia (and thyatis) and that slavery is exactly that. << The difference in their status is quite telling. Again, the similarities between the status of Alphatian *Servants* and Thyatian slaves is quite. . ..instructive. There's only one difference, and it is a *possibly* significant one - but I explained elsewhere just why too much shouldn't be made of that difference, so rather than repeat it I'll just refer back to my remarks, already made in another post that discusses that topic in depth.>> i am not so sure i can agree with that. as stated the Servant Class is dependant upon owning property and/or having the capital to do so. often times this class is depicted as being vitual slaves. in truth there probably are servant class individuals that are the minimum wage workers of the empire. however, the class section also cites the example that not all servants are veritable slaves; many being well educated and well paid. as i made mention of in another message....it really depends upon that financial cache and property. >> alph military. . .attributes of the same society that would require the nonspellcasters to be as individualistic as their aristocratic counterparts << Also telling is the fact that Alphatian soldiers have the status of Servants: that is, little better than Thyatian slaves.>> actually the common soldier falls well within the confines of the servant class. first they lack property and are serving in exchange for room and board and a degree of pay. this is actually quite consistant with other mystaran kingdoms' troops. for example...look at Kara and its classing of its soldiers in the quasi-slave status of prisoner. soldiers in general are treated as a subserviant class with low quality housing and pay, all while having to forego a good degree of their own personal rights. even the highly praised Thy army is a bit lacking in terms of financial compensation for their service to empire. though i don't remember the exact rate in monthly pay...i do remember one of my players remarking that they usually took more than that off of a kobold. the Thy trooper pay rate is offered in either DotE or Legions of Thyatis. it may be in both....however iirc the DotE set dealt with officers pay over the rank and file troops. << On the vaunted Alphatian individualism & freedom, here's what DotE has to say about that "Alphatians, as a people - their ruling classes, anyway - are chaotic, free, and individual. They believe in freedom of thought and choice. . .but only for those privileged enough to wield magic. Those who cannot utilize any sort of magic are destined to serve in one fashion of another." (DotE, Player's Guide to Alphatia, p.13, under "National Character") - so, no - attributes of the Alphatian society require the exact *opposite* of individualism of their non-spellcasters: they require servility. Making armies out of de facto serfs is not usually very effective.>> well....i have already had my feel of discussing the merits and misconceptions of the alph fighting man so i won't repeat myself in this one. those interested can merely search their mail archives for the "Alph vs Thy" and "Tactics vs. Magic" threads of a few months ago. anyway....as for the individuality and such of the mundane classes i still feel that they share a good degree of self sufficiency and individualism to compliment their spellcasting nobles. most of the cited alph npcs are rather individualistic even if a bit restraint by the alph aristocracy. afterall the aristos tend to keep to themselves, their fellow aristos, and to their magical pursuits. as long as the nonspellcasters don't outright offend the aristos then i see few obstructions to their actions. my contention in this thread is not to bebunk the perception of the status gap between the aristos and mundaners. no....my contention is that that gap is not nearly as wide as thought and is in many ways consistent with contemporary aristocracy and the common masses. i agree that DotE is ripe with references to the preconcieved wide gap between those that can cast spells and those that cannot. however, one only has to look at the material to see exceptions to the depictions and the actual rationality of certain aspects of the alpher society. is there a gap? yes there is ...but no different than the gap between the lower and middle class populace as compared to the upper class. i have often said that the alpher social structure is well suited for them. imo it is. alphs love power and money. the alph social structure is a splendid way to promote alphers to seek their own fortunes and rise within the ranks of the classes. while the mundanes cannot achieve aristo status they can live a fairly comfortable life with properties and businesses. and to a degree aristo status can be bought by placement and developement as a cleric. aristos with children not showing the signs of mage abilities are cited as often initiating their children into a clerical order to attain aristocrat status as a cleric. it also makes mention of alphers loving their children as much as the next parent. sp to me a mundaner child is going to be treated as any offspring no matter their class status at coming of age. much of this stems from the Old Alph addage where mundane offspring were encouraged to be the best that they could be. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:04:47 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/00 2:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: >> True enough. And you can't complain you didn't get my support in trying to revert that view by finally initiating the recovery. [I won't go into detail here so as not to spoil anything for anyone who might be reading.] You know for example I supported the annexation of Minrothad, or the initiation of an economic turn. You also know which side I'd prefer to win the crown war. << No, I can't complain about that, too much. But as I said in an earlier post, I had to struggle against someone's objections every step of the way - not always the same someone - and mostly I had to do so single-handedly (I guess possibly because, like you said in a post regarding these current MML threads, you "didn't think you needed help in countering your 'worthy opponents'." Well, that might be - I'm a very good (or at least tenacious) advocate for my positions, but OtoH had you stepped in earlier than you usually did, some of the things that got out of hand might not have.>> well i assume that i am being refered to here. in truth...i supported the thy annexation of the Thadder lands. afterall i did something similar in OpHydra. however i was quite objectionable to how the thys gained them. when challenged on that i was asked to offer a counter proposal. i had no plan to offer. the situation was too different for an implementation of OpHydra and varied too much from the outright war of conquest. personally i would have waited and had the Thys gain influence within the Guilds using that devout cunning. howqever that would have taken several years to evolve and not surfacing as quickly as desired by the Thy team. <> well...i'll try to be careful in response as to not give away any plans for the C-War. << 1) So whatever recovery occured wouldn't come out of the blue when it came. I didn't like things that seemed to pop out of nowhere and have instant effects elsewhere, and it wasn't simply because of who they benifited or seemed to benifit.>> back during developement...one of my key beefs with james over the C-War was its cleanness. this is a rather hectic and heated conflict to begin with, yet the collateral damage is kept at a minimum to offset any losses that ecomonic recovery had overcome. likewise thy's neighbors tended to look the other way while the empire was busy fighting itself. for that i offered some rather feasible suggestions of a third party of thy domain rulers staying out of the conflict by claimin neutrality in the C-War in favor of securing the borders. instead, those suggestions were turned asside in favor of an unprecedented display of Thy magical might and unity from Sclaras. << Given the other events that happened in AC 1016, I wanted "positive" things to start in motion at the begining of the year - which also tied in with rationales for the "negative" thing (support for the Crown War among various segments of the society being explained as a reaction to some of the changes that were started earlier).>> i won't comment too much here as the matters of the participants in the sides embroilled in the C-War may undermine the almanac under developement. however i will say that any "negatives" are securely linked to the assurances that Thy's recovery will continue with greater ease. << Also, IMO the "Economica/DDC report" in the AC 1016 Almanac provides a very good explaination of things (I donno who wrote that section last year, but I really thought what they wrote re. Thyatis got things spot on) - that report in essence says that there are signs a recovery in Thyatis is possible and promising, but there were setbacks &tc. Rather than a smooth process, a turbulent one where people made mistakes (I.E. in JA), learned from them, but made some other miscalculations - but they're on the "right path", just not far along it yet.>> [Big Grin] guess who wrote that? yep....you guessed it....i did. of course i am not involved with that team this year. << 2) Given what was originally planned, I think I had cause to fear that if I didn't work fast there wouldn't be much of a Thyatis to "recover" later on - especially given what was planned with respect to Aegos, Thyatian territories on the IoD (major land-grabs by others), what I had heard about what someone was suggesting with regard to the Pearl islands (and, seemingly, Emerond in Davania as well. The joke I have about "NACE discovers the Earth from the module Immortal Storm. Earth immediately petitions to join NACE" becoming more and more apt all the time).>> ah jeez....the Aegos matter arrises yet again. for those unaware....Aegos was a big issue in almanac developement and one that was supposedly resolved countless times, yet was constantly brought back up whenever some Thy relevant plot was trying to be passed through. but anyway...i am not going to aire the particualrs of that issue as the aegos matter still has some development in the almanac and i do not desire to undermine developing events. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:04:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia Comparisons: Tylion's opinion of Alphatia and Stonewal... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/9/00 2:56:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Here's what a prominent noted Alphatian says of the status of non-spellcasting Alphatians, in his "own words" - [Terari/Tylion quote snipped] <> i think that you really have to look at what that conversation revolved around. here is terari/tylion faced with a mixed alph/thy Galatia who has some signs of being able to cast magic. he has to basically recruiting her to the alph side of her hereditary and to the aristocracy. he is hammering in the point of what her magely developement can bring and what a transition it is from Thy senses of nobility. if you look at the conversation, you get the impression that Terari isn't overly motivated to teach Galatia.....with an early implication that he is only doing it at the behest of Eriadna. anyway....he lays out the situation pretty plainly for her and obviously she bites at it as she is seen in post-wrath material in the alpher camp. << Stonewall is a useful benchmark against which to compare the rest of Alphatia, because I'd think that it would be one of the more "popular" Kingdoms among those who like the kinder, gentler side of Alphatia, plus it's inarguably one of the more important of the Kingdoms - but I've always been struck by the apparent lack of interest in it by those who like a more "benign" Alphatia: for instance, almost no "fan-related" material has been created for Stonewall (checking Stan's webpages, there's nothing that describes Stonewall in any way).>> actually a Stonewall GAZ is under development in my retinue of alpher kingdom GAZs. that project has been put on hold pending more free time, a rewrite of the Randel GAZ, and the almanac obligations. in all there are six alph kingdom GAZs in various states of development. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:05:46 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Mystaran Almanac: Remembering The Past MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/00 10:33:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << No (and we'll cut the charade here), you claimed in the message that resulted in this post that I needed to learn compromise - I was using those as examples of compromises *I* proposed, that *others* were adamant against at the time, around which bad feelings were generated as a result. IMO, if things at that time had been greeting in the spirit of compromise and working things out - in the attitude you speak of above (that they're better than the initial ideas, more interesting), then a lot of interpersonal things that subsiquently happened probably wouldn't have. But I'm to blame for that - fine. What lingers with me isn't so much feelings over those issues, but the fact that attitudes shaped by them linger - I was and can be again willing to work with anyone in the Team. I wasn't the one who resigned from groups because I was unwilling to work with any given member of the team (though I was willing to resign for the sake of overall amity and so that the other person would be able to work on the teams that person wanted to - I can go retrieve the messages that I sent on that subject if you don't still have them).>> well....for those that are unaware, i am the individual that resigned from certain almanac teams. however james is leaving out why i resigned. first, we were beginning the second year of almanac developement. the previous year had seen quite a bit of headbutting on certain aspects of alphatian events. it seemed to me like every event that alph interests were involved in had to be bartered against some boon in thy's benefits. there were ample proposals, discussions (if you can call them that), and counter proposals. needless to say the "In Boxes" grew rather packed with mails and alot of time was wasted in dead end responses. that episode culminated in my contemplating quitting even back then. however....through some third party moderation and out of forum discussions i had thought that we developed some common grounds and removed certain miscommunications. all was fine and good for awhile. however after a period the same old arguements arose....many with very apparent residual ties to events argued in the previous almanac. there were a couple of flare ups....and seeing a repeating of histroy i decided to nip it in the bud. i resigned from the teams where both james and myself were both on. imo that was the best way to handle the matter without making it a "me or him" situation with the rest of the almanac personnel or continuing a bad situation. as i told the almanac editor, i participate in the almanac for the entertainment value of a favored setting, and simply put....it wasn't fun anymore with all of the bickering and bemoaning of victimization. therefore i quit the areas that i was involved in that posed the problem and promised to continue presenting problems. given recent events....i am quite content with that decision. work and real life have typically been a real drain to my mystara time. however, more recently the demands of real life have intensified thanks to a series of promotions, continued medical needs, and everyday life. i put in anywhere from 60 to 70 hours a week and the trend will probably continue the rest of the month as we upgrade system components and run test scenarios along with actual production schedules. anyway....what was then a rather drastic series of resingations has proven to be an even wiser choice. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:30:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: D&D Shadows (was Becoming a Lich) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-12 3:48:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, alopezmr@ENHER.ES writes: << AFAIK, in OD&D Shadow aren't undead, but constructs! >> Actually they are neither. The D&D RC lists them as "enchanted" monsters. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:30:35 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-12 11:44:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM writes: << Granted, but neither were the beastmen "placed" in the HW...they found their own way in. AFAIK they are still protected by the SoP. The SoP doesn't descriminate on "how" a culture got into the HW, it protects that culture once it is "in" the HW, no matter what. That the HKs are not near extinction on the outer world souldn't make a difference either. The SoP is a spell...it doesn't reason, it just performs its duty (or radiates its effects). >> But I think there must be a delay of many years before the effects "kick in", or else outer world PCs would have the nasty problem of being unable to leave. Let us supposd that a party of Darokinian PCs enters the Hollow World. If the Spell of Preservation affected them immediately, then they would be unable to leave, as doing so would destroy what little of Darokinian culture existed in the Hollow World. I would suggest that a culture whose members find their own way to the Hollow World would not be affected by the Spell of Preservation until it no longer has any members in the Hollow World who were not born there. On this basis, the Beastmen and Schattenalfen would be under the spell of preservation, but the Heldannic Knights and the Norwold Malamute Lupins would not be. In any case, it seems evident that the effects of the Spell of Preservation are strongest on primitive human cultures, as only they receive any sort of "special compensations" from the Spell of Preservation. On the other hand, the special compensation of most elven cultures of "Ignores Cultural Bias" suggests that elves are almost completely unaffected by the spell of preservation. The more "modern" cultures in the Hollow World have access to nearly all of the armor and weapons available in the outer world and thus face far less temptation to defy their cultural bias. However, while I think I have shown that there is no necessity for the Heldannic Knights to survive in the Hollow World, the story lines that are implicit in their survival as a band of fugitives seem very promising. Certainly there is nothing about their culture that requires that they have a base of operations -- although I cannot help but imagine that they will repeatedly conquer some small tribe and live among them for a little while before being found and chased off by the Alphatians. Ultimately they could decide that the best thing for them to do would be to flee from the Hollow World altogether. But in that case, if the Spell of Preservation kept them alive, then guess what bucko! That same Spell of Preservation would not permit the entire group to leave. If the group breaks in two then the first group to reach the openings could get out -- but the last group would never be able to do so. In a message dated 2000-05-12 7:42:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: << The only problem I have with that is that it international events in the HW very boring - no culture ever needs fear defeat because the SoP will protect them. >> But you missed a subtle distinction -- Cultures can be defeated, they just can't be annihilated. That still leaves a LOT of room for a strong culture to abuse a weak one. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:30:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Troglodytes References MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-12 1:02:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cthulhudrew@USA.NET writes: << But now that you mention it, that's a good point about the swamp. Also, the lizardmen of Ylaruam are also an example of non-swamp dwellers. I've always kind of wondered where the swamp thing came from- certainly there are lizard type creatures to be found in and around swamps and marshes, but there are just as many (if not more) in arid climates like deserts... >> There is definitely a connection between lizard men and swamps -- it is their preferred terrain in the Monstrous Manual -- so lizard men who live in swamps would be the norm and those who live in deserts would be a variant species. But troglodytes are listed as dwelling in "subterranean caverns and in the cracks and crevices of mountains", which is a completely different sort of environment. No mention is made about the temperature preferences of troglodytes, so I would assume that they don't mind the cool temperatures of most caves but do mind sub-freezing weather. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 04:11:04 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Derek Adam wrote: > Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come > from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), > but what their origin is. Perhaps they are > dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? > > We'll probably need an AD&D and OD&D explanation, since > they seem to be (slightly) different monsters in each > system (one being undead, and the other not). A good question, and one that was posed to me a while back. My answer was that in my campaign, Shadows and other similar creatures with the ability to drain stats (or levels) are creatures of the "Negative Material Plane" (this plane is part of Nightmare Dimension). Basically, creatures from the Negative Material Plane are un-life. When they touch a creature from the Positive Planes of existence (i.e. a living creature), they cause a drain on the life force of the living creature touched (which is represented by the loss of stats or levels). Even undead can fall into this catergory with energy draining undead being Negative Plane creatures that inhabit the bodies of twisted, hateful (or negatively emotional) people upon their deaths. In the case of non-corporeal undead such as shadows and wraiths, the people that they were in life were so bitter, that their souls actually perverted into having abilities very similar to those possessed by a creature from the Negative Material Plane. Interestingly enough, if creatures with life-forces should find themselves in the Negative Material Plane, they would find themselves in the unique position of being able to drain stats/levels from creatures native to the Negative Plane! Does this help any?? :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:11:26 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Mystaran Almanac: Remembering The Past MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think we should amend an old quote: People sleep better at night if they don't know how laws, sausages, or the Mystaran Almanac are made. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:11:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-12 11:08:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Alex295@AOL.COM writes: << alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. >> No, the Minrothad Guilds certainly do include a Thieves' Guild. But I just had a scary thought -- maybe the Alphatian Thieves' Guild is so powerful that it is not safe to suggest that they might actually exist? The elven mage/thieves who run it would not be "canonical" OD&D, but an organization like that has some interesting possibilities.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:44:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Alphatia and... bla...a compilation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> no one said that you didn't have a right for your own opinions or interpretations of said material. however i expect a similar respect to be offered. the truth is that you take the setting far too seriously, taking a good degree of umbrage at any implied or remotely pertinent references against Thy. << I checked back over this thread, couldn't see anything remotely resembling that occuring. In fact, if anything I tended to just ignore it when people brought up Thyatis, or say something to the effect that "yes, Thyatis's problem is with corruption". Sorry if you missed it all. >> likewise for for someone that is so craving of individual perception of said materials, you come across as quite "insistant" upon you perspective of things. as for any personal attacks upon your perception of things....the truth is that i could care less. << Well, I don't want to be accused of being sarcastic, so I'll just be straightforward: if you didn't care, you wouldn't reply. Most people don't reply to things they don't care about. Anyhow, since I have no reason not to take you at your word that you don't care I'm only going to reply to a couple things, briefly as possible, and simply snip the rest. > > i cannot speak for others but i don't make it a habit to quote reference sources. i don't have the time to search through reference materials to ply partial references to be interpretted to support my stance. << That's fine for you, as I even said in one of my posts. The reason I quote, indeed the reason I'm more or less forced to quote, was amply demonstrated by your last reply, wherin you said several times things to the effect that you didn't see any evidence of my claims in the sources - so I quoted the sources. Then, when that's done, suddenly the standard changes again - now the source isn't that important because it can be interpreted many different ways, so the fact that what I was saying did have a basis in the sources still doesn't matter. Well, that's fine. I tend to expect that, too, and it doesn't upset me like it used to. >> iirc that reference was an in-character quote from an Ierendian (i think). << Right, but that doesn't mean we dismiss it as irrelivant or wrong (not normally, at least). See also similar statements by Tylion/"Terari" on the facing page. >> this is quite strange as even in its duchy state, Kara should have been a veritable powder keg through the stated agitation seen in the two primary peoples. the situation should have worsened as the population was further complicated by the addition of alphers and elves. << I've oft argued that point, too, when the topic of Karameikos comes up. See, it isn't as if, as is sometimes seemingly interpreted, I only have it "in" for overly-benign interpretations of Alphatia. I've not infrequently argued for adding a little "spice" to Karameikos, too. >> assumption. you wanted quotes, howabout this one straight from the pages of the handy Funk & Wagnalls standard desk dictionary << May as well e-mail Aaron and ask what he had in mind. Again, you quote from the dictionary re. "Health" and "Heal", but neither words are mentioned in the Alphatian legal codes. Anyhow, IMO if one has time to look up quotes, personally I find it more pertinant and useful to actually look up stuff in the materiel we're discussing. But that's just me - I tend to be strange. >> i don't have the source material handy. however iirc the alpher dole comes from several references. << Again, here I'd be curious to get a source and page number for this stuff - from anyone, if Alex is too busy to provide one. >> how did i interpret it? well...dispite the author's (Allston) thesis that alpher mundaners are utterly repressed, his own arguement is rather lacking in support structure within the alph sections. << An author can be wrong about something "real" (for instance, if I wrote a book based in the US in 1994, without meaning for it to be one of those "alternate reality" fictions, and in it had George Bush as President, then I'd be wrong) - but IMO an author cannot be wrong about his own fictional setting. As for lack of support, well we have to realize one thing - TSR, at the time, didn't spend a whole heck of a lot of time dwelling on the actual details of "nasty" behavior in any of its setting - with a few sketchy references, one was more or less to take it as a given that the bad guys did bad things for bad reasons. This isn't to say that all Alphatian Aristos were to be bad, but one can probably find more evidence for how bad things were in Alphatia for mundaners than even for how bad things were in Halag under the Black Eagle Baron - again, asside from some somewhat sketchy references supporting the depiction of Ludwig and Bargle as horrible dudes, there wasn't a lot of support for the thesis that they were. Same could be said of Heinrich & Hansel Oesterhaus and their thugs - general attitudes are discussed (which don't sound too much different from the Alphatian's view of outsiders), and some other vague comments, but then one is expected to take the rest more or less as given, unstated assumptions. Similar could be said of Hosadus - he wants to conquer Darokin and has invaded Sind and his nation (Hule) is based on deciet, but other than that the argument for how bad he is is somewhat lacking in support structure, too. I could go on, with other examples from in Mystara and in other TSR settings, but I probably wouldn't add more clarity. >> the Thy trooper pay rate is offered in either DotE or Legions of Thyatis. it may be in both....however iirc the DotE set dealt with officers pay over the rank and file troops. << Pay rates for soldiers aren't included in Legions of Thyatis. Pay rates for soldiers aren't included in DotE, with the exception of the mention of pay rates for lieutenants, on p.26 of the Player's Guide to Thyatis. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 00:14:06 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > No, I can't complain about that, too much. But as I said in an earlier post, I had to struggle against someone's objections every step of the way - not always the same someone - and. >> > > well i assume that i am being refered to here. > Nope, or not solely/specifically: I wrote "not always the same someone". Anyhow, I'll leave it at that. > > [Big Grin] guess who wrote that? yep....you guessed it....i did. of course i am not involved with that team this year. << As I said in a mail that only went to Herve regarding that: >> Point is on that, if Alex wrote the thing I praised it wouldn't change one bit how I looked at it, and I wouldn't drop or alter one word of the praise I aimed at it. "Nothing personal, it's just business." People IMO read too much into disagreements over how to view *game* countries and see that as personal attacks and animosity. Now, I'm not going to claim that everything between Alex and I was only that, because there certainly was some personal friction > as well, and I'm not sitting here claiming I didn't contribute to it (that's why, throughout this, when refering to that "episode" I've endevoured to phrase my words in the most neutral way possible, and not assign blame - there's enough blame to go around, IMO, but I'm not the one to apportion it). But people sometimes see it that way anyhow. Note, though I didn't explicitly say it, I wasn't heaping praise on what was written in that section regarding Alphatian territories. Indeed, I contrast the portrayal of things in Alphatian/NACE territories with what you said you felt the Crown War should result in - given what has been discussed about the likely condition of NACE/Alphatian areas. Note also that I know what your opinion is about how the Crown War should be resolved and what it's effects should be, and I know what other people think regarding that as well, and everything that has been said to me regarding that has been taken into consideration, weighed not only by my own preferences (people no doubt know what that is), but by preponderance of sentiment (I did take a vote, and it happened to be a lopsided landslide). Because, the truth is I *do* care (to paraphrase you from a previous post). Anyhow, I'm no longer handling that or anything else anymore. So you can get your way on the Crown War - it can be as bloody and destructive as you can convince those who'll replace me to make it. I know how you want it to be, I think those still in a position to do something about it will listen to you. If the vision you'd prefer in that case is as strongly valid as you leave the impression of it being, then I have no doubt you'll be able to convince those involved, and those in charge (such as Herve) to go down the route you've suggested. If they remain unconvinced, then perhaps that's an indication that your vision of what should occur there isn't as compelling as you think it is, and it isn't just dumb, obstinate Porphy failing to recognize it that stood in the way of following that path. Think about it - I'm serious, and not sarcastically or acrimoniously, either. I'll be interested to see what happens, myself, because it will be instructive to me - perhaps it *will* turn out that I was dumb and obstinate, and you'll be vindicated. Who knows - I certainly can't pretend to. >> but anyway...i am not going to aire the particualrs of that issue << I like that trick, too. I can't remember what it's called, that rhetorical flourish where you talk about something only to say "but I'm not going to discuss my opponents feckless villiany, the life he spent as a grifter in reno cheating orphans out of their meal money, no lets not discuss that." That's always fun. 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 01:59:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Straight Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau wrote this: And are "City Sites" and "Castle Sites" worth tracking down? And I answer with: I picked city sites up at a convention a couple of weeks ago. I flipped through it for a couple of minutes when I got home and thought it was pretty much garbage. I'm gonna have to go through it again more carefully and see if there is anything useful in it but I sure didn't find anything the first time. I haven't seen castle sites yet so I can't tell you what I think of that. From what you mention on country sites it sounds pretty good. I may have to pick that one up. I hope I was of some help. James Straight ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 09:46:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "agathokles@liber" Subject: Re: Troglodytes References MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >=20In=20a=20message=20dated=202000-05-12=201:02:58=20PM=20Eastern=20Dayl= ight=20Time,=0D=0A>=20cthulhudrew@USA.NET=20writes:=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20<<= =20But=20now=20that=20you=20mention=20it,=20that's=20a=20good=20point=20a= bout=20the=20swamp.=0D=0AAlso,=20the=0D=0A>=20=20lizardmen=20of=20Ylaruam= =20are=20also=20an=20example=20of=20non-swamp=20dwellers.=20I've=0D=0Aalw= ays=0D=0A>=20=20kind=20of=20wondered=20where=20the=20swamp=20thing=20came= =20from-=20certainly=20there=20are=0D=0Alizard=0D=0A>=20=20type=20creatur= es=20to=20be=20found=20in=20and=20around=20swamps=20and=20marshes,=20but=0D= =0Athere=20are=0D=0A>=20=20just=20as=20many=20(if=20not=20more)=20in=20ar= id=20climates=20like=20deserts...=20=20>>=0D=0A>=20=0D=0A>=20There=20is=20= definitely=20a=20connection=20between=20lizard=20men=20and=20swamps=20--=20= it=0D=0Ais=0D=0A>=20their=20preferred=20terrain=20in=20the=20Monstrous=20= Manual=20--=20so=20lizard=20men=20who=0D=0Alive=0D=0A>=20in=20swamps=20wo= uld=20be=20the=20norm=20and=20those=20who=20live=20in=20deserts=20would=20= be=20a=0D=0A>=20variant=20species.=0D=0A=0D=0ALizard-men=20in=20Ylaruam?=20= In=20the=20Gaz,=20the=20only=20lizardmen=20are=20undead=20(in=20the=0D=0A= village=20well=20in=20Kirkuk),=20IIRC.=0A=0A= ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:37:00 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Thibault: Wendar type Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I believe the new map would be ready for the end of next week. =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= a �crit: > What is the Enchanted Valley marked on the map of Wendar on Thibault > Sarlaats homepage? Anyone? > H�vard > > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) > http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa > http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:53:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000512142922.007b7ca0@lby3.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 12 May 2000, Beau wrote: > But what I really like is the prison-in-a-swamp setting, the Island of > Lost Souls. I was thinking of dropping it into Karameikos, but I realized I > know little about the swamp there. Is there any information I should be > looking for/know about? The Blight Swamp? The only information available on the Blight Swamp in Karameikos is the adventure accompanying the old D&D Screen (AC1?). The adventure has a map, but I dont think it is supposed to cover more than a small part of the swamp. The swamp is home to a whole bunch of Caymen, one evil vampire and nquite a few ghouls. Also, some brigands lead by an evil elf live near the edge of the swamp. Im writing this from memory and it has been quite a while since I ran the adventure, so I might have forgotten some details. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect a new one?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:03:08 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich In-Reply-To: <20000512173832.D614@esatclear.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 12 May 2000, Gordon McCormick wrote: > On Fri, May 12, 2000 at 09:23:51AM -0700, Derek Adam wrote: > > > > Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come > > from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), > > but what their origin is. Perhaps they are > > dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? > > Sharon did some good work on this a while back, you can read it at > http://dnd.starflung.com/shadorig.html I have an alternative theory. There is a Plane of Light and a Plane of Darkness. These are in many ways similar to Elemental Planes. Shadows are either Elementals of Darkness or creatures who live on the border between these two planes. I like the second option best, because that means we can have Elementals of Darkness and Light as separate monsters.. :) In any case, I dont think Mystaran Shadows should be undead, even if people use AD&D. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect a new one?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:43:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > all of which are assumptions. oh the lack of organised thieves guildes is > offered as canon yet for some reason there are thieves in alph. however since > mystara is a fantasy setting riddled with magic, the survivability rate of a > thief organization should be very low throughout. for some reason though, > alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. > iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. > anyway....mass mind control and such are pretty extreme in my opinion. > anyway....there is no mention of such measures being enacted. Well, thats fairly easily explained. There could still well be thieves and no thieves guilds. The whole point of a thieves guild is to benefit it's members, but if thieves guilds are more of a liability than a benefit by virtue of the fact that they provide clear links between thieves for mages to investigate, than they won't evolve. Far better to have a lone thief, whose anonymity provides some measure of protection. > << As for good/evil being defined by the national standard - is the Azcan > Empire good or evil?>> > > off hand i would say that the azca have social attributes that are evil in > the eyes of most mystarans. conversely the fanatical Atz priests probably see > nothing wrong with the human sacrifice aspects, seeing it as a necessity. > however i am sure that there are numerous azca that despise the sacrifices > and see them as evil. it depends upon one's perspective. coincidently > similar RW events have a similar approach. both the flying of the Confederate > Flag (Stars and Bars) and the naming of places after George Washington have > come under fire for their link to slavery. in both cases the complete > signifigance of both are overlooked due to some rather overinflated > attributes. Comparing it to the RW is a bit moot really, as D&D is far more black and white than the real world. And whether the Azcans consider themselves to be evil or not is equally irrelevant really, as by the definitions of alignment they are Evil. > huh? looking at the spell the affects are pretty straightforward if the > target fails his save. since the ESP would be cast as part of an > investigation the target would be forced to willingly fail his save lest his > resistance be seen as an admission of guilt. plus...given that their are at > least two sides in such an investigation the judiciary can simply ESP (or > Speak with Dead) the victim and get that perspective. And if he passes his save? There was a cool Dragon mag ages ago on the sort of legal systems that would evolve with magic. You block ESP by thinking about something else. It only reads surface thoughts after all - your resistance is you attempting to think of something else, despite the questions being asked. Its a bit like being asked "what is your name" - if you fail your save you involuntarily think about your name, giving the interrogator a clue. If you pass, you manage to think about something else instead. There is no save for ESP, its not like "the spell fails" or anything like that, so the interrogator doesn't necessarily know what he is picking up, because he cannot really ascertain whether he has successfully resisted or not. If you think of Jack when your name is really John for some reason, perhaps the interrogator will be misled. And the save is made at +4 - so even a 0 level human will successfully resist ESP in a significant number of cases. Better clarification on ESP is given in the Complete Psionics Handbook - by virtue of the fact that psionicists get ESP just like mages, and also Probe, an improved version, which is what you would need. Speak with Dead suffers from certain restrictions as well, and could also lead to misleading results. As I said, I challenge you to find any divination spell, from level 1 to 9, that gives 100% accurate answers. Simply put, there isn't one. Anyone who has played an archmage and used divination in the course of an adventure will know what I mean. And the final point, that the interrogating mage is basically a witness (and not an eye witness at that - you might say his testimony is effectively second hand) also limits the reliance that should be placed on magic. In a magocracy where magic is the answer to everything doubtless magic is used, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it works all the time. Its just a case of > << Alphatian law seems to split into two categories - Imperial Law and local > law. Imperial Law basically protects the rights of wizards, maintains the > status quo (translators note - keeps the peons in line (what else can be > read into this btw?), sets out the scale of the social order (ie the caste > system), handles tax and other such things. > Local law is whatever the local ruler wants, providing it doesn't transgress > Imperial Law. That alone could cause the above, but "maintaining the status > quo...". What laws exactly would there be to do that? Presumably the > mundanes have life made difficult for them in a variety of ways just to do > that.>> > > Alph Law is established to differentiate the prosecution between the > spellcasters and nonspellcasters. it is not that they are above the general > law, they are penalized a bit differently for certain crimes. the crimes are > clearly staed as are the punishments. Well, the above is lifted directly from DoE... it can't really be argued with, I wasn't even putting a spin on it, its almost word for word. > maybe its just me and my own Southern heritage in this slave dilemma. as a > southerner we have that slavery history as well as a better historical > understanding of US slave issues than that taught in the public school > system. i am a realist in regards to slave statuses, who used slaves, who > didn't use slaves, and how slaves were treated and punished. Don't worry about it, thanks to my British heritage I understand stuff like colonialism and the Opium Wars :) > well it is a little late to avoid that line of argument. for some reason > anytime one aspect of either empire is discussed the Alph vs. Thy comparisons > come forth. it really shouldn't as the two are mentally different dispite > their apparent similarities. Well, the reason they are easily compared is because the books for both nations are in identical format. You can read the paragraph in the Thy book entitled Laws, and then flick to the Alphatian book to see their paragraph on Laws, and directly compare the two. It would be a lot harder to compare Alphatia with, say, Darokin, because the gazetteer is laid differently, and concentrates on different issues. Using DoE you can draw clear differences, comparing two paragraphs on the same subject. The slave rights example is just one of many, if I thought it worth doing we could compare Alphatian dress code with Thyatian dress code too - or any other aspect described in DoE. > anyway...i do not see how Thy's slave laws unilaterally shoot down my stance > in Alph slave practices being so out of the ordinary. if anything Thy's slave > laws are the exception to a general practice of slavery where conditions were > the whim of the owners and freedom was a fleeting prospect at best. Maybe Thy's slave laws are oddities compared to the RW institutions, but on Mystara Thyatis and Alphatia seem to represent 90% of the worlds slave trade. As James has already pointed out, there are very few (none?) nations aside from these two empires that have the institution of slavery at all. The Thy laws make sense, because there are a lot more slaves in Thyatis than in Alphatia. This means the slaves presumably can pressure more easily for some measure of human rights. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:48:42 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Wyrd thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Original message by Beau "Weird thoughts"? I like it :) (ok, so it's pronounced "weerd"; what's the difference?) > The wyrd has haunted the fort, on and off, for about a century. She = appears > as a tear-streaked, beautiful, sickly and pale, elf maiden wearing a > colorless gown and hooded cape. [...] The wyrd has a tendency to sing = to herself in Elvish when she's alone. Ha! Any players worth their salt will wet their pants, screaming = "Banshee!!!", and run, crying, from the room. ;) > Hit Points: 18 Armor Class: 4 I notice that you've decided to use a Lesser Wyrd. Of course this is = probably the best idea for your campaign level, but I have to point this = out: Lesser Wyrds have lower Intelligence ratings, and thus wouldn't be = able to cast spells (in any regular way; see below). And the lower Int = would also limit the fun ways, she(/it?) can torment others. Of course, = you shouldn't just go with this, I just had to point it out (I'm like = that, sometimes). > I was also thinking that having some skeletons (originally all = forest > animals) roaming the upper parts of the ruins would be good = foreshadowin to > the horror down below (since the players will only be expecting = goblins > ...). While it's my campaign of course, is there any precedent for = wyrds > retaining any of the spell use abilities of their former selves? I don't really know where the Wyrd originally came from, but I'm pretty = sure that it has never been used officially since then, and, thus, I'm = pretty sure that there isn't really any precedent at all for Wyrd = behaviour/spell use. The way I see it, the Wyrd's spell use would be = limited first and foremost by it's Int, which seems low, according to = Canon. That is not to say, that there couldn't be incidental spell use, = or spell effects lingering around the Wyrd. Perhaps the Wyrd has amused = itself by killing off the forest animals around the ruins, and the = strong Negative Energy (or whatever term you use to describe Undeads; = OH, I just saw that it is Positive Energy this time ?!?) have reanimated = the animals (through no conscious act by the Wyrd). Just my thoughts on the matter; otherwise cool villain, even with = potential to become recurring (possessing the body of some Elf who dies = later IYC; perhaps returning as a Greater Wyrd). Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:14:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 2000-05-12 11:08:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Alex295@AOL.COM writes: > > << alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. > iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. >> > to which Wizard Shopper replied: > No, the Minrothad Guilds certainly do include a Thieves' Guild. The Minrothad Thieves Guild is actually legal. As the Minrothad Guilds operate a "Death to Thieves" policy, the Minrothad Thieves Guild does not operate within the Minrothad Guilds, but instead are hired for "jobs" in other countries. > But I just had a scary thought -- maybe the Alphatian Thieves' Guild is > so powerful that it is not safe to suggest that they might actually exist? Could it be that the Alphatian Thieves Guild is in fact semi-legal, just as it is in Glantri? There is no doubt that there is a large Thieves Guild in Alphatia, as does it not say that once thieves gain the ability to cast spells from scrolls (10th level in OD&D - I don't know about AD&D though) it is possible for them to gain gentry status? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:10:15 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Just out of interest, what happens if the commoner is unable to pay the > required reparations? 900% of the cost is likely to be more than a commoner > has, given the limits on what he can own and how much hard currency he is > likely to earn.>> > > that's a good point as there is no mention of what happens if compensation > cannot be made. i could assume that loans be granted by alph bankers or > loansharks to pay this fine in exchange for repayment, collateral, returned > services, or being indentured. of course the court may get involved and alter > sentencing or pace compensation out over a period of time....like RW victim's > restitution. then there is confiscation of properties and income garnishing > to pay the court debt. simply put....it doesn't say so any offerings is > purely based on assumptions. however i doubt that slavery would come into > play based on a rather simple assault charge. Probably unlikely that a bank would offer a loan to a penniless criminal. Indentured servitude most likely - quite likely to be a Slave of the victim, perhaps permanently, perhaps for a fixed amount of time. > Although that doesnt cover slaves... But a fine is a slightly different > kettle of fish than a death sentence. > I wonder what the public reaction would be in the UK if some judge let off a > murderer with a fine - and they don't even have the death sentence here so > its not so huge a gap.>> > > well it is not simply a fine. the victim is restored to living status and > gets a hefty sum to boot. i don't recall offhand how much a restoration, > ressurection, raise dead, etc. spell costs. but i am sure that the 900% in > compensation is quite a tidy bundle to the victim's bankbook. > anyway...slaves are treated as property and therefore fines are related to > compensation to damaged or lost property. if the slave is valued enough by > the owner the assessed value should cover the costs of revival or at least to > afford the purchase of another slave skilled to perform the same job. > otherwise you are insuring a BMW as you would a Pacer. Yeah, but again what if the murderer cannot pay? Does the State fork out the 20,000gp for a raise dead? I find that very hard to believe. Unless the murderer is rich, that sentence doesn't really work. > good point. though i think that the law would take precedent over the trial > and punishment of the charges. of course a more powerful aristocrat that was > raped may wish to keep the matter under wraps and exact their justice through > a duel. however if the rape victim is the weaker of the two, they would be > more vocal in the use of the law to settle the matter over risky life in limb > in a duel that had them at a disadvantage. Maybe, but I think if the duel took place immediately, before charges were brought to bear, there wouldn't be much the victim could do about it. The accused could duel the victim on a slander claim and even get some potential credibility. Once the victim/witnesses are dead, would the law still apply? (Especially if the accused took the pains of disintegrating the witnesses, which kindof stiffs any magical interrogation of the corpses). > yes....it would have been nice for a bit more detailling. Thy and Alph are > way too big and way too complex for the paltry amount of material offered in > DotE. however the way the Thy vs. Alph sects have developed noncanon develope > is always subject to the bias and prejudices of the person detailling the > regions. Well yeah, I'm not slagging further work by fans, far from it, but I am of the opinion that further work should be an extension of what is already written about the place, rather than some tangent. I mean, to my knowledge, no one has produced a list of all the things slaves are not allowed to do, although its evident from DoE that slaves are not allowed to do a great deal. > << Just a quote from a NG... not necessarily my opinion, but just showing > that > your opinion isnt the only one in the world.. > Further, it is the history of the aristocracy, in general, with notable > exceptions (George III and Richard III, for example), of representing > the interests of their subjects in a much more just, egalitarian, and > representative manner than purely democratic and/or autocratic forms of > government. It should be remebered that the aristocracy arose from > warriors who were willing to risk their lives to defend their own rights > and the rights of their countrymen. It was and is unjust not to give > those who risk their lives to preserve the state more political power > than those either unwilling or unable to do the same.>> > > ah yes.....but who authored the above? i ask as there is much on the internet > and NGs that are less than completely accurate. for example, i could probably > use the internet and offer several sites that "disprove the Holocaust ever > happened" dispite the evidence. for all its info, the net is still subject to > the persons uploading the html. Yeah, I know, I'm not saying I agree with the above, its just a point that other views are out there. > Is this bad? If you read the Darokin gaz the place seems to be like the > model utopian Free Market. It constantly stresses fair play, the abilities > of even the poorest to go from rags to riches, etc. etc. Regarding the > penalties, bear in mind that fines not only represent an impact on the > sentenced individuals wealth - they also include a drop in social status by > definition, by the way that Darokinian society works.>> > > as far as justice, Darokin offers the potential for gold buying justice. > though it may sound strange coming from me, it's my opinion that justice in > the law should be beyond matters such as money and influence. when coin or > prestige do circumvent justice of the law, it should only be the precursory > hook to motivate a band of adventurers to right a wrong. Possibly, but I find that hard to believe in Darokin. Constantly multiple sources (not least the Darokin gaz) say how fair Darokinian merchants are. A reputation of corruption (which is what things like bribery are) is bad for business, and therefore bad for Darokin. I can't see any evidence of those practices at all in Darokin, quite the contrary, I can see hints of a scrupulously fair legal system. (Of course, there may be isolated incidents, there always is, but even so.) I reckon Darokin probably has a National Audit Office or something similar, who keep the finances of the nation clean. And it probably would be a very public and open organisation too. After all, you wouldnt invest money in Darokin if you thought the place was full of corrupt moguls. > much of the same feelings her ein regards to Darokin. once i'd like to see > the merchants get ticked off and invade someone or something to get back into > the fantasy setting and move away from the merchant lifestyle. Yep. You could run Shadowrunesque Corporate Wars I suppose in Darokin, but such activities seem very out of character for the nation at the moment. > well....a typical mage can feasibly have access to spells to evade capture. > likewise they are less likely to be pursued if their actions are deemed > magely acceptable....the excuse being that they evaded capture. i say this as > the mages are essentially a class upon itself in glantri.....much like a > guild. there's a great dea of revelry between the mages and therefore the > foundations for mages to cover each other's back. All true. Of course the Summons One Dares Not Deny spell, backed up with Pierce Any Shield, limits the measures that a felon can take if he is attempting to flee justice, and if he is worthy of the Princes attention. > well i tink the interesting aspect about glantri is that officially the gap > between mage and mundaner is slight. the government going to extremes to > encourage a degree of evenhandedness. however the mages are the controlling > force in glantri and therefore are going to look after their own interests. > afterall glantri's history is ripe with putting the mundaners in their place > to preserve the magocracy. Indeed, look at the Followers of the Claymore for example. But the mundanes arent really oppressed. A mage who assaults a mundaner will be dealt with in exactly the same way as a mundaner who assaults a mage. > < dead on tap like that, fine, but my Mystara doesn't. Talk about game > wrecking!>> > > i agree with you there. use allowed raise dead type spells but at a cost more > dependant upon compensatory quests than outright payment in coin. for > instance my high level clerics rarely had a raise dead spell in their granted > spell list unless the Immortals (cough cough the DM) had "foreseen" a need > that even the cleric did not see at the time. I use a modified piety point system (it was in an old Dragon mag) to represent an individuals standing with his professed religion. You only get raise deads and suchlike if you are pious enough - it is a miracle after all, not to be given to the unworthy. > back in my gaming days we had > an alph justice scenario develope. a fighter type was slain by a mage in an > altercation between two rival mages...one of which the fighter was allied to. > the judiciary investigated the slaying and ruled against the mage. via > immortal guidance (Razud) the fighter was revived but using a reincarnation > spell. he came back as an elf and established himself as a noted spellcasting > fighter. as he became more powerful, he began a covert warof vengence against > the mage that had killed him....the situation in the rivallry had worsened > since then. in the end the reincarnated fighter had destroyed the mage's > prestige, finances, and family life well within the constrains of alph law. > he finished off the matter via a duel where he divulged his identity. there's > more to it than that...but alot can be drawn from the Count of Monte Cristo. LoL Sounds very Savage Coast :) > Stefan didn't know about Ludwig (allegedly - ya gotta luv these plot > twists). Ludwig went out of his way to cover up what he did - because if he > didnt, he would be nailed to the wall (and in the end this happened). > Thats a case of massive corruption, not a case of an unjust legal system.>> > > nah....iirc the reports were forwarded to him but he chose to ignore > them..."cousin ludwig would never do that". anyway alot of the whole Kara > thing boils down to scripting for a then future use as the bastion of > mystaran ideals in a post wrath environment. Fair enough :) > Once more the point has totally missed you. If Thyatis really was a total > hellhole where the elites didnt give a damn about their peons, there wouldnt > be any bread money at all. Thats the point I was making.>> > > no i did not miss the point. the elites are not funding the bread....the thy > government is. the move is a rather inexpensive means at crowd control and > appeasement at the masses of citizens. when was the bread program > established? beats me as it is not listed. it could be as old as the empire > or merely a relatively new mandate to bolster the privilage of the citizenry. > anyway...during wrath the program went to crap thanks to corrupt mishandling > of the funds and bread production facilities. given that thy was embroilled > in a pretty hectic war...i really don't see it as that big a deal as the > resources for the bread would surely be stressed to begin with. Yeah, but the elites in Thyatis we are talking about are basically nobles and senators, ie the government. > Well, no Thyatian can off another Thyatian on a whim, not even the nobles - > and not even to criminals. Thats the main point I was raising.>> > > hmm....the problem is that "whim" is used. it is assumed that the alph > aristos relish running through the streets offing mundaners like sporting > clays. that's a very big assumption with little backing to support it. Thats irrelevant. The fact is they can should they choose. And if they can, sometimes they will. > Yep, but throwing your fortunes to the tender mercies of the mage concerned > isn't exactly fair. They may or may not prosecute, but the fact is you have > to keep your nose clean and toe the line, or you WILL eventually come a > cropper and be put firmly in your place - with the rest of the peons. >> > > since assumptions are being tossed about. i assume that there must be some > insurance to secure that a degree of impartiality is used in the judicial > system. the glantrians have their representatives anchored to faithful > servitude to their nobles sans an enchanted stone....one that cannot be > dispelled and is fatal if removed. surely the alphs have something set up to > insure the sanctity of the judiciary. if not for the mundaners then to insure > that an aristo won't use the law to take out a rival that he cannot oppose > openly. Well, the Glantrians have nothing preserving the sanctity of the judiciary. (Presumably because the place is full of scheming scumbags.) Looking at Alphatia - would they really want that? It could be embarrassing for the ruling class if one of the aristos turns out to be mass murdering psycho turning innocent servants into ghouls. If more than one of these cases came to light, what would the commoners think then? Its too risky, and goes against the "preserving the status quo". What would the Alpher law do then? Would a judge attempt to hush up such activities? Would the Alphatian constabulary attempt to cover them up? Would the servants even be able to press charges in the first place? Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 04:09:14 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Derek Adam wrote: > Quoting "L�pez Mercader, Antonio" : > > Does anyone have an explanation of where Shadows come > from? I don't mean how they reproduce (we know that), > but what their origin is. Perhaps they are > dimensionally shifted creatures (cf. Spectral Hounds)? for AD&D2th sages said, that they are magical created, by an ancient curse that was laid upon some long dead enemy. the curse only affect humans and demihumans. there souls or spirits are affected. the majority of the essence is shifted to the negativ material plane. only the shadow is left on the prime material plane. killing a shadow cut the bond of prime material and negativ material plan. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:40:15 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: [[MYSTARA] Questions for Geoff Gander and the In-Reply-To: <200005121806.OAA12719@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 12 May 2000, Geoff Gander wrote: > >H�vard wrote: > >> > >>1) On the 1016 Alamanc Map of Norwold, I'm having trouble making out the > >>names. Could someone tell me what the abbreviated names are? > > Erk! My bad. There were so many dominions to put in, that the font size > presented on the map was the largest I could make it without overlapping > the map itself. Thanks for the observation, though. Maybe in future > drafts someone could turn it into an interactive map (like the Karameikan > one on thib's site, where you click on the town and the info pops up....?) Sounds cool! I'm still interested in the names of the various dominions though.... I can make out the abreviated versions typed on the map, but im having trouble with the map legend where the abreviations are explained. > Havard asked: > > >>2) Comparing the map of Norwold from the Almanac and the map of > >>Littonia(by Geoff Gander), there is something wrong. On the map of > >>Norwold, landsplit river ends in a bay, whereas on the littonia map it > >>does not. What happened? > > Andrew said: > > >Without recalling for sure, I think the difference may be due to the different > >scales. Littonia is on an 8 mi/hex scale, IIRC, while Norwold is 24 mi/hex. > > That's part of it (the scale difference). But also, when you look at > Littonia, it's not all that large north-south, and since we are looking at > a region outside of Norwold proper, even if there are discrepancies, the > larger-scale map could be modified slightly without drastic effects on the > campaign world. :-) I mean, look at the trouble associated with the > peninsula in Heldann (the one south of Landfall) - that one changed shape > at least 2 times (IIRC), depending on which TSR map you looked at. I'd > also rationalise the whole thing by saying, this region is so far north, > and so little is known about it, that cartographers could easily have made > mistakes in mapping it out. :-) Looks like a job for ol' Azlum Swith > from CoM! Okay, things are starting to make sense now. That peninsula you're talking about was really giving me headaches. I was originally looking at the map from the wendar adventure, and then trying to compare that to the various maps of Norwold. Ive decided to use the Norwold map as a basis for the coastline and the wendar/denagoth map to detail the inland, so that I get the plateau to fit in there aswell. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect a new one?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:50:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Wyrd thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The wyrd has haunted the fort, on and off, for about a century. She appears > as a tear-streaked, beautiful, sickly and pale, elf maiden wearing a > colorless gown and hooded cape. Although she doesn't use the skills, she > has all the skills Alcoyne and Miaplacidus possessed in life, and can play > the lute and sing beautifully. She will feign a desire to be freed from her > curse, or to inquire after her "beloved" Nicodemus, but truthfully, all she > cares about is killing, especially the Callarii elves. Arrogant about her > inability to be hurt by non-magical weapons (and secure in the knowledge > that she can't be permanently destroyed without an exorcism, even if her > current body is slain) the wyrd will begin by being sweet and pretending to > be either Alcoyne or Miaplacidus, but will quickly move to tormenting > living beings before finally killing them. The wyrd has access to the > memories of both Alcoyne and Miaplacidus, and will claim to be either one > of them, if it looks as though it might be helpful or even simply amusing. > The wyrd has a tendency to sing to herself in Elvish when she's alone. > I was also thinking that having some skeletons (originally all forest > animals) roaming the upper parts of the ruins would be good foreshadowin to > the horror down below (since the players will only be expecting goblins > ...). While it's my campaign of course, is there any precedent for wyrds > retaining any of the spell use abilities of their former selves? Oh, no! Don't disappoint them! Give them goblins on the upper parts of the ruin, but have the Wyrd (and her undead forest animal pets) on the lower levels. Of course, when the PCs enter the lower levels of the ruin, the first thing they'll hear is the ghostly singing of the Wyrd in elvish (BTW nice touch about her singing to herself in elvish!) echoing throughout the dungeon. Once they get to the Wyrd, have her pretend to be a sweet, nice elven spirit that cannot rest because that she needs a certain item to put her soul to rest. (If the PCs inquire into how she became undead, feed them a line about her spirt being trapped at the same time an "evil mage" created the undead forest animals). Of course, after the PCs return with said item, then - evil DMs laugh!!! I haven't seen anything regarding whether a Wyrd can cast spells or not, but of course, this particular Wyrd falls into the "Special Monster" catergory, so can be customized as you want it. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 14:52:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Warbirds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFBCEA.D138E840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFBCEA.D138E840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone have a picture and/or deck plan of a Heldannic Warbird in = some sort of electronic format? =20 (That they can send me :) Cheers Rob ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFBCEA.D138E840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone have a picture and/or deck = plan of a=20 Heldannic Warbird in some sort of electronic format? 
 
(That they can send me :)
 
Cheers
 
Rob
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BFBCEA.D138E840-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:09:05 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: Alphatia and... bla...a compilation. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > iirc that reference was an in-character quote from an Ierendian (i think). > given the speaker is not alphatian and therefore not privy to the alpher > mindset the alpher class structure may very well be seen as being oppressive. > as for the striking precedent of DotE and its passages, there really isn't a > standardized format within the Gazs. the format seems to vary from writer to > writer. > It probably still is somewhat true for Alphatia, otherwise why would the author put it there? It seems to me that people should make up their mind on one of the following: A)DotE depicts Thyatis and Alphatia in a true light, which means that each empire has its ups and downs, Alphatians treat their slaves as disposable property (as DotE implies); or B)DotE is completely wrong, no quotes from it reflect the truth, and Alphatia is in truth a wonderful, egalitarian society. Otherwise it looks like people are using only some of the canon materials to support their point of view, dismissing other, equally valid materials as "uninformed in-character quotes". -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:12:18 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > well i assume that i am being refered to here. in truth...i supported the thy > annexation of the Thadder lands. afterall i did something similar in OpHydra. > however i was quite objectionable to how the thys gained them. when > challenged on that i was asked to offer a counter proposal. i had no plan to Yet you had no problems with how NACE gained some of its own new lands, where people basically tripped all over themselves to join it with open arms, all within the space of a year or two. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:11:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Oliver Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) In-Reply-To: <200005130703.DAA80424@smtp.uky.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed With all this talk about Hollow World civilizations and the challenges they face, I throw out this question- On the back notes of the product NIGHTRAGE, there is mention of dark elves wielding armor impervious to the internal sun the sharpest of blades (loose citation, I know) I thought this product focused on the Nithian culture (ala Egypt?). Are the dark elves just antagonists described in passing reference to the level of detail of goblins or skeletons in most dungeon crawls, are these dark elves a unique culture with rich detail in this product? Either way, what are they? Shadow Elves? And is this product a fair reference to these Elves? enlightenment? -o ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:14:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/00 12:15:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << In a message dated 2000-05-12 11:08:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Alex295@AOL.COM writes: << alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. >> No, the Minrothad Guilds certainly do include a Thieves' Guild.>> i said that i wasn't sure :-) actually i thought that the thieves guild had been outlawed and effectively integrated into the guild structure by the means of the Blue Eels. anyway...with OpHydra an yet another period of hiatus, the MG gaz has returned to the bottom of the mystara pile. <> actually that isn't a bad idea. of cours emight and ultr covertness are not the only avenues to pursue...what if the Alph aristos simply refused to admit that an organized thieves association existed within the empire. sort of like how J. Edgar Hoover took so long to recognize the existance of organized crime. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:29:10 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have an alternative theory. There is a Plane of Light and a Plane of > Darkness. These are in many ways similar to Elemental Planes. Shadows are > either Elementals of Darkness or creatures who live on the border between > these two planes. I like the second option best, because that means we can > have Elementals of Darkness and Light as separate monsters.. :) > > In any case, I dont think Mystaran Shadows should be undead, even if > people use AD&D. do have shadows in Mystara a special background? or do they should be constructs because in OD&D they were? IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 13:56:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: creatures classes (Becoming a Lich) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > A good question, and one that was posed to me a while back. My answer was > that in my campaign, Shadows and other similar creatures with the ability to > drain stats (or levels) are creatures of the "Negative Material Plane" (this > plane is part of Nightmare Dimension). > > Basically, creatures from the Negative Material Plane are un-life. When they > touch a creature from the Positive Planes of existence (i.e. a living > creature), they cause a drain on the life force of the living creature > touched (which is represented by the loss of stats or levels). Even undead > can fall into this catergory with energy draining undead being Negative > Plane creatures that inhabit the bodies of twisted, hateful (or negatively > emotional) people upon their deaths. In the case of non-corporeal undead > such as shadows and wraiths, the people that they were in life were so > bitter, that their souls actually perverted into having abilities very > similar to those possessed by a creature from the Negative Material Plane. > > Interestingly enough, if creatures with life-forces should find themselves > in the Negative Material Plane, they would find themselves in the unique > position of being able to drain stats/levels from creatures native to the > Negative Plane! > > Does this help any?? :) the way is a good one. to make it easier to classify creatures i use undead - creatures with conection to the negative material plane. ex.: IMO shadows, wraith, vampire, lich, zombi. animals - there some people disagrees with me, but i think it is important how they live - ecological? do the have magical powers? how intellegent they are? ex.: dog, cat,......., griffon, spiders except pase and other with special powers. Humanoids - sozial system (some), intellegent,language, use weapons (mostly).... ex.: humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, ogre, giants, even centaure belongs to that group monster: here i have different groups. magical improved humanoids: they are humanoids plus magial skills. ex.: drow, ogre mage, nixie, some giant... created: the are created by someone and could not get babies. golems, machiens, homonculous... and some groups more IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:43:12 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several matters: >> Aegos was a big issue in almanac developement and one that was supposedly resolved countless times, yet was constantly brought back up whenever some Thy relevant plot was trying to be passed through. << I didn't want to answer this immediately because I wanted to think about it and gather my recolections first, but actually it came up about as often as other matters that I had thought had already been resolved were re-aired and re-argued, usually as if previous discussions hadn't taken place. Anyhow, I'll leave it at that rather than going into the particulars - unless *you* want to, something I'd really advise you not to do, in your own interest. . . >> for that i offered some rather feasible suggestions of a third party of thy domain rulers staying out of the conflict by claimin neutrality in the C-War in favor of securing the borders. << People can and indeed I encourage them to read the MA 1016 Events, especially the Thyatian Events, and see what happened. Alex implies that his feasible suggestions were ignored - well, read the events, decide for yourself. As for the activities of the Sclarii mages, that was designed to fit into that same concept (again, read the events). As for their activities - well, I know what Alex thinks of Thyatians using magic, he's discussed that a lot (talk about countless times), and rather than re-air it here folks can check the MML Archives, and see what was written on that topic, by him and others, back around january of this year. >> the situation was too different for an implementation of OpHydra and varied too much from the outright war of conquest. << I have to thank Alex for raising the issue of Operation Hydra. Again, here we have something that I don't have to characterize - Operation Hydra is on Stan's site, people can go read it and see what Alex thinks of as appropriate scripting; pay special attention to the (somewhat tacked-on, IMO) Isle of Dawn related activities - check that stuff out, and one might want to compare timespans of the Isle of Dawn events of Operation Hydra with those of Wrath of the Immortals. Yes, I also know what Alex thinks of Wrath's scripting (and, indeed, we share some similar opinions on that), but a comparison between his scripting and the Wrath scripting of war on the IoD might be instructive. Again, don't let me, or anyone else, manipulate your opinions and impressions of that - it's at Stan's site, URL is: http://dnd.starflung.com/thadcamp.html - the Isle of Dawn related stuff starts on Day 21 and ends with a treaty on Day 25. >> back during developement...one of my key beefs with james over the C-War was its cleanness. this is a rather hectic and heated conflict to begin with, yet the collateral damage is kept at a minimum to offset any losses that ecomonic recovery had overcome. likewise thy's neighbors tended to look the other way while the empire was busy fighting itself. << Anyone who has any questions, comments, suggestions, or remarks of any kind about how the Thyatian events of MA 1016 unfolded should feel free to air them - be they critical or supporting. You can mail 'em to the list or to me directly. Whatever happens with my future involvement with the MA, I take full responsibility for the Thyatian events even when in some cases they were based on ideas put forward by others, or created as a result of compromise with others. I'm fully willing to stand behind them. So far, with the single notable exception of Alex himself, feedback I have recieved has been uniformly positive - but if others have quibbles or problems with them, I *encourage* you to step forth and mention them. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 10:38:56 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: The Dark Shire In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 > Reply-to: Mystara > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > > > who? > > what kind of music is it? Very cool heavy metal. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:50:09 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 13 May 2000 12:11:21 -0400 Oliver writes: > With all this talk about Hollow World civilizations and the > challenges they > face, I throw out this question- > > On the back notes of the product NIGHTRAGE, there is mention of dark > elves > wielding armor impervious to the internal sun the sharpest of blades > (loose > citation, I know) [snip] > Either way, what are they? Shadow Elves? And is this product a fair > reference to these Elves? That refers to the Schatenalfen (sp?), an atzanteotl worshipping branch of the Shadow Elves (one of the groups that went to the HW, rather than being sent there, as I recall). For more info see the HW boxed set, and I believe their entry is available for download on Wizard's site. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) In-Reply-To: <66.3931d1a.264e265b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:30 PM 5/12/00 EDT, you wrote: > >But I think there must be a delay of many years before the effects "kick >in", or else outer world PCs would have the nasty problem of being unable to >leave. Let us supposd that a party of Darokinian PCs enters the Hollow >World. If the Spell of Preservation affected them immediately, then they >would be unable to leave, as doing so would destroy what little of >Darokinian culture existed in the Hollow World. Which ties in to a point I thought of last night and was going to bring up. The SoP prevents cultures from being annihilated- through absorption, destruction, etc. It's function is to keep the cultures in (essentially) the same form they were in when they arrived. It doesn't function to *keep* a culture there, if said culture is inclined to leave, IMO. In the HK example, the Heldanners were largely defeated and driven out of the positions they previously occupied in the Hollow World- they were not completely destroyed, as elements of the HKs definitely survived in the Hollow World- presumably enough elements that they could have rebuilt elsewhere, under the protection of the SoP. However, if the HKs decided to physically leave the Hollow World (as they evidently have), the SoP wouldn't act to prevent that. It wouldn't function at all, save perhaps to ensure thatthey survived for as long as they remained within the Hollow World. So, to take the example quite a bit further- if, for instance, the Alphatians managed to find a way to fly their continent around (getting help from the Oostdock gnomes, perhaps, and constructing giant technomantic propulsion engines), they could conceivably fly out of the Hollow World and return to the Outer World, and the SoP would not prevent such a maneuver in any way. It would serve to maintain their cultural elements as long as they were within its range, but that is all. >However, while I think I have shown that there is no necessity for the >Heldannic Knights to survive in the Hollow World, the story lines that >are implicit in their survival as a band of fugitives seem very promising. >Certainly there is nothing about their culture that requires that they >have a base of operations -- although I cannot help but imagine that >they will repeatedly conquer some small tribe and live among them >for a little while before being found and chased off by the Alphatians. I think this idea has merit, and is very plausible. I'm sure there are still HKs kicking around down there. Recall the one that tried to turn the Nithians against the Milenians down in the valley near the Sea of Yith. >Ultimately they could decide that the best thing for them to do would >be to flee from the Hollow World altogether. But in that case, if the >Spell of Preservation kept them alive, then guess what bucko! That >same Spell of Preservation would not permit the entire group to leave. >If the group breaks in two then the first group to reach the openings >could get out -- but the last group would never be able to do so. See, I don't think this would happen myself. The SoP wouldn't, IMO, prevent any culture from leaving, just from ending. If someone voluntarily chooses to leave its demesnes, then the SoP couldn't (or at least shouldn't) function to keep them there. ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net "The greatest trick Doug Henning ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 11:43:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000513114821.00c52860@pop.uky.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:11 PM 5/13/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Either way, what are they? Shadow Elves? And is this product a fair >reference to these Elves? They're Schattenalfen, who play a part in the first couple of chapters of the adventure. They are only "dark" in the sense that they are well, generally evil (and in this adventure are against the PCs). As for their armor and weapons, the description is accurate, but their weapons and armor are not "standard" for their race, but rather directly tied in with the events of the module (and, to a lesser extent, the entire trilogy). Schattenalfen arms and armor are just your standard fantasy equippage, outside of this module. ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net "The greatest trick Doug Henning ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:37:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: [Re: [MYSTARA] Post-WotI Possibilities] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Theisen ha scritto: > Caroletti wrote: > > > >Here you go again...should I begin to count the things you plan to do and > >never fulfill (evil grin here). > > Um... errr... it wasn't me, I swear! It was my Nightmare Dimensional > counterpart. Yeah, that's it... see for them, *not* completing projects is > actually the same as completing projects for us Normal Dimensional people. So > my counterpart is actually wildly successful in his own dimension. :) LOL^(1'000'000'000'000) Very good answer, I swear! (very bad word-joke) Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 16:10:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jdaly Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > On the back notes of the product NIGHTRAGE, there is mention of dark elves > wielding armor impervious to the internal sun the sharpest of blades (loose > citation, I know) > > I thought this product focused on the Nithian culture (ala Egypt?). Are > the dark elves just antagonists described in passing reference to the level > of detail of goblins or skeletons in most dungeon crawls, are these dark > elves a unique culture with rich detail in this product? While their not my favorite modules, those adventures are almost like gazetteers themselves. They are packed with info about all the cultures the adventurers run across. Those elves are part of what the heroes run across... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:16:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "Liches: Magic is required to create a lich, allowing the soul of the lich-to-be to travel to Limbo where it must accomplish a quest. The object of the quest is usually to gain some form of evil magic or a spell that will bind the soul back to its hodv and suspend its decay. Depending on the time the lich's soul takes to meet its goals, the body may reach an advanced stage of decay. There have been cases of liches that accomplished their quests quickly enough to prevent major deterioration of their bodies, but as long as a few bones are left, a lich may yet succeed in its scheme. If nothing is left of the body, the lich cannot further its quest and is trapped in Limbo. The lich's quest often requires the destruction of a powerful denizen of Limbo. Like wights, liches dream and can thus travel Limbo in search of victims to torment and secrets to gain (such as new spells or the location of artifactsl. A lich can enter Limbo once per new moon, and it tracks down victims much as a wight does. The souls of liches have the same abilities and game statistics in Limbo as the original monsters, complete with magical weapons (which again are only reflections of the true items�. Liches prey on the souls of dead wizards, preferably ancient rivals. Liches, though able to summon and control undead creatures, are not necessarily followers of Entropy. For this reason and because they are very powerful entities on Limbo, liches sometimes manage to become Minions of Chaos when trapped on that plane. Lichdom often leads to insanity-a symptom of Chaos-although wanting to become a lich in the first place is a clear sign of a sick, evil mind. Lichdom precludes any hope for eternal rest. Destroying a lich in the Prime plane traps its soul in Limbo; destroying its soul in Limbo kills the creature forever." -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My first adress (checked daily) is thibsylv@club-internet.fr My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 15:16:32 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---------- > From: Andrew Theisen: > >> See, I don't think this would happen myself. The SoP wouldn't, IMO, prevent any culture from leaving, just from ending. If someone voluntarily chooses to leave its demesnes, then the SoP couldn't (or at least shouldn't) function to keep them there. << I'd agree with that. The SoP, IMO, isn't so "Active/Forceful" as to be able to prevent folks from leaving - it always seems to work through "indirect" means (strange co-incidences) - so it really couldn't raise a barrier that couldn't be overcome if people vollentarily decide to exit - after all, they aren't *really* violating the SoP while leaving, because they're culture isn't directly threatened with destruction, presumably, by going from a Point A (within the HW) to a Point B. Of course, if that Point B is outside the HW, then the SoP won't protect them if a giant weasel eats everyone, but the SoP isn't in the business of predicting such eventualities, and once you're outside it's "range", you're weasel chow. HOWEVER - if some folks *DO* want to have the SoP at least put obsticles in the way of entire societies vanishing from the HW via migration, it wouldn't be that hard to think of some - strange storms at the polar openings that "just happen" to appear and be so fierce that the only alternative seems to be to turn back, tunnels towards the surface collapsing or otherwise becoming impassable, etc. But it would probably be very hard for the SoP to completely prevent folks from leaving. Which brings rise to a theoretical question: What if every inhabitant of a "HW Jonestown Culture" decided to drink the cool-aid? By that I mean, what if, for instance, every Gentle Elf woke up one morning and decided they couldn't bear it all? The SoP would presumably "intervene" to prevent mass suicide that would wipe out a culture, right? But how? Every knife becomes butter and every poison becomes an Elixer of Health? What if they then go on a hunger strike, and refuse to eat? > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:02:41 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: the official websight Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:09 13/05/00 +1000, Karl wrote: >hi all >Umm i went to the websight on other worlds and i am begging. Please please >get rid of the background it is shocking >please Karl, since for some unfathomable reason you decided to ask everyone this question rather than email me directly could you please enlighten us as to what is so shocking about the background? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 00:07:14 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Questions for Geoff Gander and the... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact i am working on unifying all the versions of norwold-heldann-denagoth-borea-adri varma in 24 miles per hex first, then to zoom in 8 miles per hex, but one thing at a time. It is also giving me a super headache, but i believe that i am seing the light... I might be proposing a version for the end of next week. -- Thibault Sarlat ICQ 16622177. My first adress (checked daily) is thibsylv@club-internet.fr My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 23:07:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Which brings rise to a theoretical question: What if every inhabitant of a > "HW Jonestown Culture" decided to drink the cool-aid? By that I mean, what > if, for instance, every Gentle Elf woke up one morning and decided they > couldn't bear it all? The SoP would presumably "intervene" to prevent mass > suicide that would wipe out a culture, right? But how? Every knife becomes > butter and every poison becomes an Elixer of Health? What if they then go > on a hunger strike, and refuse to eat? Bit of a moot question really, the answer is reasonably straightforward... they just wont get suicidal in the first place. Most of the Canon SoP stuff is based on some sort of low level mind control already. Cultural bias in particular. It would likely stop people from leaving in the same way - they just won't want to leave in the first place. In the example given - were the Gentle Elves all suicidal when they were transported to the HW? No? than they will stay that way. Ahhh, enchantment. The Ultimate School :) Perhaps thats why I'm one of the few who likes psionicists :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:25:53 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-13 5:54:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO writes: << The swamp is home to a whole bunch of Caymen, one evil vampire and nquite a few ghouls. Also, some brigands lead by an evil elf live near the edge of the swamp. Im writing this from memory and it has been quite a while since I ran the adventure, so I might have forgotten some details. >> This is interesting news -- it seems that Karameikos hides a number of otherwise rare monster types. I had thought that the Cay-men were limited to a small kingdom near the western end of the Savage Coast, but finding them that far east suggests that they are actually quite widespread. Has anyone seen any references to Gator Men outside of the Squamous King- doms in and near the Bayou? There is no need to ask about common lizard men -- I am already aware of just how widespread THEY are. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:36:00 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-13 7:15:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Yeah, but again what if the murderer cannot pay? Does the State fork out the 20,000gp for a raise dead? I find that very hard to believe. Unless the murderer is rich, that sentence doesn't really work. >> It probably depends more on the importance of the victim than the wealth of the murderer. If the Alphatian government considers the victim worth raising, then they go ahead and pay for the Raise Dead spell and then charge the murderer for the cost along with any other penalties that their law imposes. If the murderer can't pay -- well, he now owes them a hefty some of money, and in most pre-modern countries a period of indentured servitude would be the most logical way to collect the debt, with permanent slavery resulting when the debt gets too far in excess of what the debtor could possibly work off in one lifetime. In a message dated 2000-05-13 6:49:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Its a bit like being asked "what is your name" - if you fail your save you involuntarily think about your name, giving the interrogator a clue. If you pass, you manage to think about something else instead. There is no save for ESP, its not like "the spell fails" or anything like that, so the interrogator doesn't necessarily know what he is picking up, because he cannot really ascertain whether he has successfully resisted or not. >> That is the AD&D description. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, it is possible to resist an ESP spell -- but in that case the spell fails utterly and the caster picks up no thoughts. The obvious reaction in a magocracy would be to punish that person for contempt of court and try again at another time. One interesting abuse of this system, of course, could occur if the mage in question did not like the person being interrogated or the answers he was getting -- in that case he might falsely accuse somebody of resisting even as all thoughts are laid open to him. One limit on that abuse, of course, is that fact that an ESP mage who meets with resistance too often would come to be considered incompetent. In a message dated 2000-05-13 7:14:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mr.Dead@BTINTERNET.COM writes: << to which Wizard Shopper replied: > No, the Minrothad Guilds certainly do include a Thieves' Guild. >> Actually, that reply and many of the quotes that followed were mine, not Wizard Shopper's. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:36:03 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-13 2:26:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: << Which ties in to a point I thought of last night and was going to bring up. The SoP prevents cultures from being annihilated- through absorption, destruction, etc. It's function is to keep the cultures in (essentially) the same form they were in when they arrived. It doesn't function to *keep* a culture there, if said culture is inclined to leave, IMO. >> I wonder, then -- would it stop a powerful culture from carrying the last few survivors of a culture out of the Hollow World? It would seem that as long as the captors do not harm or change the customs of those survivors while they are in the Hollow World, that culture would be entirely free of the Spell of Preservation once they leave the Hollow World. At that point the captors could release their captives in the tundra and then return to a Hollow World from which their enemies have indeed been removed. Worse yet, why bother to release them? After all, once they are outside the area of effect of the Spell of Preservation, the captors could simply slaughter their prisoners with no consequences. Am I missing something here? Or is the Spell of Preservation really able to distinguish people leaving the Hollow World voluntarily from those being driven out at swordpoint? But I would still argue that there must be a delay in the Spell of Preservation taking hold of people in the Hollow World because of three points: 1) Hollow World humans are the ones who are most likely to suffer severe penalties if they try to emulate the practices of a culture other than their own. 2) Elves (the longest lived player character race in the Hollow World) are virtually unaffected by cultural bias. 3) No source that I am aware of sets any limits on the ability of Known World PCs to "go native". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 18:51:44 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> I wonder, then -- would it stop a powerful culture from carrying the last few survivors of a culture out of the Hollow World? << Because most of them don't even think of it, it would seem. Plus, it would be a rough trip - or at least a long one - and IMO the SoP might activate when it comes to "forced relocation" of them to outside the HW vs. vollentarily leaving. Also, the reason why it wouldn't even be considered as an option is because the HW cultures aren't, IMO, aware of the SoP in the first place - they don't know it's in place, don't know what its mechanisms are, and aren't aware of the fact that there's an area on Mystara you can take people to where the SoP doesn't apply. It's a mechanic we're aware of. Thus, they wouldn't bother to try such a thing because, with I guess one possible exception now, they simply aren't concious that it's possible to do so. At least that's what I think. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:08:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-13 7:54:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Because most of them don't even think of it, it would seem. Plus, it would be a rough trip - or at least a long one - and IMO the SoP might activate when it comes to "forced relocation" of them to outside the HW vs. vollentarily leaving. >> It wouldn't be a rough trip if they used the Aegos shaft or its counterpart in the Atruaghin/Azcan lands. Then again -- could the Spell of Preservation have something to do with causing these devices to break down or become lost and forgotten? Still, the introduction of the Alphatians, the Heldannic Knights, and an ever increasing number of outer world visitors would certainly cause the people listed if not the natives they come into contact with to work out ideas like these -- but I think you have made a good case as to why the problem has not come up already. However, I still think that the cultures who either were placed in the Hollow World by the Immortals or who have been there so long that none of those who came from the outer world are still alive would be favored by the Spell or Preservation over recently arrived adventurers. If the Darokinian party I cited in an earlier message contained a single Glantrian mage, it would be ridiculous to imagine that the Spell of Preservation would protect that mage in any way even if he is the only Glantrian in the Hollow World. On the other hand, if he brought his entire household with him and settled down in some secret valley, then the Spell of Preservation might kick in to preserve them after a century or two -- but certainly not while that mage and the people who entered the Hollow World with him were still alive. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 20:21:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question In-Reply-To: Wizards Shopper's message of "Sat, 13 May 2000 18:25:53 EDT" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Wizards Shopper writes: > This is interesting news -- it seems that Karameikos hides a number of > otherwise rare monster types. Makes sense, actually. It's one of the least-developed countries in that area. It probably had various migrations as surrounding countries became more developed and drove "undesirables" out. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 181 days, 15 hours, 14 minutes, 16 seconds till we run away. DYSLEXICS OF THE WORLD, UNTIE! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 21:39:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Hollow World 2000 (was HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000513114821.00c52860@pop.uky.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > With all this talk about Hollow World civilizations and the challenges they > face, I throw out this question- Another question came to my mind in light of the recent debates - what would Hollow World 2000 look like? Who joins those currently inside? Thyatis? Alfheim? Vestland? Anyone want to try to detail the potential map and international reactions 1000 years later? I don't think we should dump every OW nation in there, but a couple will be wiped out - and if we do a history, we can explain the reasons. I really don't want to tangle myself up in another project, but offer this to the list to see if anyone wants to develop the future HW. - Mischa We briefly consider the possibility of hiring out of state, but dismiss the idea. You just can't put an ad in the New York Times saying "Wanted. Campaign manager for the only Independent in Congress. Knowledge of democratic socialism and independent politics required. Familiarity with Vermont and rural life a must. Terrific responsibility. Low pay" - Bernie Sanders, "Outsider in the House" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:33:50 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The SoP probably can't distinguish between voluntary and involuntary population movements. However, presumably the HK Council would intervene in such a case, or at least the culture'son Immortals (they would also intervene if a culture suddenly became suicidal). >From: Wizards Shopper >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] HKs in the Hollow World (was near humans) >Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:36:03 EDT > >In a message dated 2000-05-13 2:26:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > ><< Which ties in to a point I thought of last night and was going to bring >up. > The SoP prevents cultures from being annihilated- through absorption, > destruction, etc. It's function is to keep the cultures in (essentially) > the same form they were in when they arrived. It doesn't function to >*keep* > a culture there, if said culture is inclined to leave, IMO. >> > >I wonder, then -- would it stop a powerful culture from carrying the last >few survivors of a culture out of the Hollow World? It would seem that >as long as the captors do not harm or change the customs of those >survivors while they are in the Hollow World, that culture would be >entirely free of the Spell of Preservation once they leave the Hollow >World. At that point the captors could release their captives in the >tundra and then return to a Hollow World from which their enemies >have indeed been removed. Worse yet, why bother to release them? >After all, once they are outside the area of effect of the Spell of >Preservation, the captors could simply slaughter their prisoners with >no consequences. > >Am I missing something here? Or is the Spell of Preservation really >able to distinguish people leaving the Hollow World voluntarily from >those being driven out at swordpoint? > >But I would still argue that there must be a delay in the Spell of >Preservation >taking hold of people in the Hollow World because of three points: > >1) Hollow World humans are the ones who are most likely to suffer severe >penalties if they try to emulate the practices of a culture other than >their >own. > >2) Elves (the longest lived player character race in the Hollow World) are >virtually unaffected by cultural bias. > >3) No source that I am aware of sets any limits on the ability of Known >World PCs to "go native". > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:49:19 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Magical Interrogation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > << Its a bit like being asked "what is your name" - if you fail your save you > involuntarily think about your name, giving the interrogator a clue. If you > pass, you manage to think about something else instead. There is no save > for ESP, its not like "the spell fails" or anything like that, so the > interrogator doesn't necessarily know what he is picking up, because he > cannot really ascertain whether he has successfully resisted or not. >> > > That is the AD&D description. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, it is possible > to resist an ESP spell -- but in that case the spell fails utterly and the > caster This may be true, but as an AD&D player its relevant to me :) Also it seems that Alex uses AD&D as well, though I could be wrong about that. >From a different angle, I'm strongly against any divination spell from being foolproof, so I would hazard to venture that the AD&D spell is considerably more balanced from a campaign point of view. Although if were running under the D&D rules, I would probably say that Alphatian thieves have learnt to resist it somehow - which makes sense from their survival point of view (would be an interesting point for a campaign as well - maybe there really IS a secret Thieves Guild that no one knows about? :) (It may even make thieves a class remotely worth having). > picks up no thoughts. The obvious reaction in a magocracy would be to > punish that person for contempt of court and try again at another time. One > interesting abuse of this system, of course, could occur if the mage in > question did not like the person being interrogated or the answers he was > getting -- in that case he might falsely accuse somebody of resisting even > as all thoughts are laid open to him. One limit on that abuse, of course, is > that fact that an ESP mage who meets with resistance too often would come > to be considered incompetent. It would be interesting to see who this "ESP wizard" actually is. Presumably the constabulary would hire wizards as interrogators, but somehow that doesnt seem very Alphatian to me. (Bit of a scum job for a noble, casting ESP on criminals). I wouldn't be surprised if it was the actual judge or magistrate who cast the ESP. One obvious abuse which I hinted at earlier is if the ESP wizard simply lies about his findings. He is ultimately just a witness because of that very reason. Whether they attempt multiple ESPs from different casters, and cross examine the casting wizards just as you would expect for any other witness, I imagine would depend on the situation. If a commoner is being interrogated, and the wizard lies about his findings, and the commoner protested, would anyone in authority take the commoners side? Or would the commoner get 10 lashes for insolence as well as a contempt of court charge? As the place is Chaotic in alignment, I'm sure it could be handled in any number of ways depending on the situation, from scrupulously fair to massively injust. Magical evidence put simply is always circumstantial, simply because it has to be cast by someone who may or may not be reliable. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:23:53 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Shaham Ilan Subject: Re: creatures classes (was Becoming a Lich) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: erewan laubgaenger To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 1:56 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] creatures classes (Becoming a Lich) > the way is a good one. > to make it easier to classify creatures i use > undead - creatures with conection to the negative material plane. > ex.: IMO shadows, wraith, vampire, lich, zombi. > > animals - there some people disagrees with me, but i think it is important > how they live - ecological? do the have magical powers? how intellegent they > are? > ex.: dog, cat,......., griffon, spiders except pase and other with special > powers. > > Humanoids - sozial system (some), intellegent,language, use weapons (mostly).... > > ex.: humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, ogre, giants, even centaure belongs to that > group > > monster: > here i have different groups. > magical improved humanoids: they are humanoids plus magial skills. > ex.: drow, ogre mage, nixie, some giant... Why isn;'t an ogre mage in the humanoid part? And drow? They are a classic humanoid (although they are not Mystarans...) > > created: the are created by someone and could not get babies. > golems, machiens, homonculous... > I think that nixies and the like fall into the Feary catagory (see PC1) and don't forget the Treants, Satyrs and Dryads (nature spirits?). Undead can be further categorised into corporal and incorporal beings. There also are planar creatures (all those not naturaly born on the prime). And the list goes on. I think the animals-monster part is a problem. Does a Mystaran see a Lion differently than a Griffon? Both are top predators. The only difference is that in the RW a griffon does not exist. But what about dragons? hmmm Morphail (ohadshm@inter.net.il) I can be cruel I don't know why.../T.Amos ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:26:06 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Shaham Ilan Subject: Re: Becoming a Lich MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What's your source Thib'? ----- Original Message ----- From: thibault sarlat To: Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2000 8:16 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Becoming a Lich > "Liches: Magic is required to create a lich, allowing the soul of the lich-to-be > to travel to Limbo where it must accomplish a quest. The object of the quest is > usually to gain some form of evil magic or a spell that will bind the soul back > to its hodv and suspend its decay. Depending on the time the lich's soul takes > to meet its goals, the body may reach an advanced stage of decay. There have > been cases of liches that accomplished their quests quickly enough to prevent > major deterioration of their bodies, but as long as a few bones are left, a lich > may yet succeed in its scheme. If nothing is left of the body, the lich cannot > further its quest and is trapped in Limbo. The lich's quest often requires the > destruction of a powerful denizen of Limbo. > Like wights, liches dream and can thus travel Limbo in search of victims to > torment and secrets to gain (such as new spells or the location of artifactsl. A > lich can enter Limbo once per new moon, and it tracks down victims much as a > wight does. The souls of liches have the same abilities and game statistics in > Limbo as the original monsters, complete with magical weapons (which again are > only reflections of the true items�. Liches prey on the souls of dead wizards, > preferably ancient rivals. > Liches, though able to summon and control undead creatures, are not necessarily > followers of Entropy. For this reason and because they are very powerful > entities on Limbo, liches sometimes manage to become Minions of Chaos when > trapped on that plane. Lichdom often leads to insanity-a symptom of > Chaos-although wanting to become a lich in the first place is a clear sign of a > sick, evil mind. Lichdom precludes any hope for eternal rest. Destroying a lich > in the Prime plane traps its soul in Limbo; destroying its soul in Limbo kills > the creature forever." > > -- > Thibault Sarlat > ICQ 16622177. > My first adress (checked daily) is thibsylv@club-internet.fr > My other adress is tsarlat@etu.montaigne.u-bordeaux.fr > Homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi > Pour rejoindre la Mystara mailing liste francophone, > rendez-vous sur ma page de garde en bas. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 19:58:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question In-Reply-To: <57.5a3a0c1.264f3071@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:25 PM 5/13/00 EDT, Wizards Shopper wrote: > >This is interesting news -- it seems that Karameikos hides a number of >otherwise rare monster types. I had thought that the Cay-men were limited >to a small kingdom near the western end of the Savage Coast, but finding >them that far east suggests that they are actually quite widespread. That accessory module that is in discussion here ("Treasure of the Hideous One") is actually the first appearance of the Cay-men. It even precedes their appearance in the original Creature Catalogue. >Has anyone seen any references to Gator Men outside of the Squamous King- >doms in and near the Bayou? There is no need to ask about common >lizard men -- I am already aware of just how widespread THEY are. The Gator Men actually appear in module DA4: Duchy of Ten. Yep, that's right- the Gator Men were in the marshes west of Blackmoor, over 3,000 years in Mystara's past. :) ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net "The greatest trick Doug Henning ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 05:43:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Questions for Geoff Gander and the] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Sorry if this appears twice- there's a problem with Amexmail, and I'm no= t sure it got through the first time) Geoff Gander wrote: [Snipped reply to my inquiry about joining maps] Yikes! Sounds complicated, and I don't even have Paintshop on my computer= =2E.. not to mention mine's probably even wimpier than yours is, by today's standards. :( Hopefully I'll figure something out. I may be able to glean some hints fr= om your response, in any case. :) >I mean, look at the trouble associated with the peninsula in Heldann (th= e >one south of Landfall) - that one changed shape at least 2 times (IIRC),= >depending on which TSR map you looked at. = Not to mention the map discrepancies with the Isle of Dawn and Norwold fr= om their earliest incarnations (originally, the head of the IoD was larger, = and when it shrank in later maps, this created a scale difficulty with Norwol= d- which, for some reason, nobody shrank in proportion). The outcome of that= is, of course, Kamminer Bay south of Landfall, which is actually larger than previous Norwold maps (and the Wendar map from X11) depict. >I'd also rationalise the whole thing by saying, this region is so far >n= orth, and so little is known about it, that cartographers could easily >have ma= de mistakes in mapping it out. :-) That's always been my take, for any areas that haven't been mapped in any= extensive detail as yet. :) ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=3D1 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:41:29 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Giovanni Porpora Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I bought these three accessories some years ago when I didn't own a Computer, therefore I ignored all those great things written by Mystarans ... >From Country Sites I used the desert-related locations only, as part of my PCs quest to recover the fourth and fifth fragment of the Rod of Seven parts in Ylaruam. I didn't use anything else. Imho City Sites it's more easily integrated in Mystara, I myself used it for the City of Alpha, but it can be adapted to a lot of Mystaran cities with only few changes. Castle Sites has some good ideas but it needs more work to be done by the DM, imho. I dare say MMLers wrote more interesting sites, and they need less work on your part :) there's a Dwarven Fortress, I set in Norwold, there's a Cloud Giants Castle which can be used as a nasty encounter, a keep guarding civilised lands by the gnolls ( which can be adapted to Vestlend, ot Soderfjord, IIRC), a watch tower (which can be adapted to Darokin's wall or again in Northern Reaches, but both of them requires a lot of work to do, imho), a black dragon's lair, an undead palace, both to be worked on a lot, imho. However, these three accessories are currently stored in the "Unused Section" of my rpg Library ;) Hope this helps Bye Giovanni ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:08:52 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Magical Interrogation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable << Its a bit like being asked "what is your name" - if you fail your = save you involuntarily think about your name, giving the interrogator a = clue. If you pass, you manage to think about something else instead. There is no = save for ESP, its not like "the spell fails" or anything like that, so the interrogator doesn't necessarily know what he is picking up, because he cannot really ascertain whether he has successfully resisted or not. >> >> That is the AD&D description. In the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, it is = possible >> to resist an ESP spell -- but in that case the spell fails utterly = and the >> caster =20 > This may be true, but as an AD&D player its relevant to me :) Also it = seems > that Alex uses AD&D as well, though I could be wrong about that. But since this a Mystara Mailing List, most of us prefer discussing = things from both an OD&D and AD&D point of view. =20 > From a different angle, I'm strongly against any divination spell from = being > foolproof, so I would hazard to venture that the AD&D spell is = considerably > more balanced from a campaign point of view. Although if were running = under > the D&D rules, I would probably say that Alphatian thieves have learnt = to > resist it somehow In OD&D the ESP spell isn't as omnipotent as that. It only allows the = wizard to "hear" thoughts, not to probe a person's mind for specific = info. If the target is aware that it is being performed, I'm pretty sure = that you can suppress what you don't want people to know by thinking = hard on something else. And the Alphatian thieves are probably trained = in exactly that. > (It may even make thieves a class remotely worth having). This is neither here nor there (and I seem to recall a discussion of = this not long ago), but for what it's worth I almost exclusively play = thieves, so I have no idea what you mean by that remark. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:26:13 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Gator Men actually appear in module DA4: Duchy of Ten. Yep, that's > right- the Gator Men were in the marshes west of Blackmoor, over 3,000 > years in Mystara's past. :) Wow, than Herath has been around forever, as they were made by Herathians (!). :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:17:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/00 6:49:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << > all of which are assumptions. oh the lack of organised thieves guildes is > offered as canon yet for some reason there are thieves in alph. however since > mystara is a fantasy setting riddled with magic, the survivability rate of a > thief organization should be very low throughout. for some reason though, > alph has been particularly noted for this lack of organized thief activity. > iirc minrothad also bears a similar trait....but i cannot be sure. > anyway....mass mind control and such are pretty extreme in my opinion. > anyway....there is no mention of such measures being enacted. Well, thats fairly easily explained. There could still well be thieves and no thieves guilds. The whole point of a thieves guild is to benefit it's members, but if thieves guilds are more of a liability than a benefit by virtue of the fact that they provide clear links between thieves for mages to investigate, than they won't evolve. Far better to have a lone thief, whose anonymity provides some measure of protection.>> yes. actually if you look at Talitha and assume she derives from Mystara there is ample grounds for thieves acting without a typical guild organization. Talitha is limited in canon material yet comes off as being rather a loner. afterall a TG is essentially a support structure for the thieves in an area. however, a thieves guild may not neccessarily revolve around the typical TG configuration .... such as Den of Thieves. the support organization could actually be supported by aristos thus providing a degree of magical output in their favor and a degree of protection within the legal system. i also like the precept that the alph authorities don't accept the possibilities of a thief based crime organization.+++ > huh? looking at the spell the affects are pretty straightforward if the > target fails his save. since the ESP would be cast as part of an > investigation the target would be forced to willingly fail his save lest his > resistance be seen as an admission of guilt. plus...given that their are at > least two sides in such an investigation the judiciary can simply ESP (or > Speak with Dead) the victim and get that perspective. And if he passes his save? There was a cool Dragon mag ages ago on the sort of legal systems that would evolve with magic. You block ESP by thinking about something else. It only reads surface thoughts after all - your resistance is you attempting to think of something else, despite the questions being asked.>> well that is the difference. the ESP spell would feasibly be cast in a "voluntary" manner, thus the save is failed willingly by the interrogated individual. failure to comply implies guilt. if a casting fails the caster may recast the mental probes even more with the realization that the person is hiding something. likewise there is ample opportunity to look at the event through ESP through other witnesses and other participants. as for surface thoughts that is not neccessarily the best defense to think of other matters. the esp spell allows various probes to uncover info during the spell's duration to ply the mind's surface for the required info. in my defunct campaign we usually scripted all manner of weird visions in the initial probes. but i think that it would be very difficult for someone to repress the actual events pertaining to what his or she is being questioned about. being held for questioning being a constant reminder at the incident. if you ask a question, the individual must mentally register the events even if it is to formulate a false response. this registration is the key to RW lie detectors or interogations where body language is used to determine the truth. <> yes but it is still more accurate than relying upon eye witness testimonies. also i think that what is overlooked is the general intent of DotE in regards to Alpher Law and its use of magic. essentially the premise is that if you commit a crime or are a victim in one, the truth will come out. > << Alphatian law seems to split into two categories - Imperial Law and local > law. Imperial Law basically protects the rights of wizards, maintains the > status quo (translators note - keeps the peons in line (what else can be > read into this btw?), sets out the scale of the social order (ie the caste > system), handles tax and other such things. > Local law is whatever the local ruler wants, providing it doesn't transgress > Imperial Law. That alone could cause the above, but "maintaining the status > quo...". What laws exactly would there be to do that? Presumably the > mundanes have life made difficult for them in a variety of ways just to do > that.>> > > Alph Law is established to differentiate the prosecution between the > spellcasters and nonspellcasters. it is not that they are above the general > law, they are penalized a bit differently for certain crimes. the crimes are > clearly staed as are the punishments. Well, the above is lifted directly from DoE... it can't really be argued with, I wasn't even putting a spin on it, its almost word for word.>> i am just going with the stated High and Low justice instead of differentiating between imperial law and local law. the law is pretty well established as being uniform throughout the empire. however the differences in actual usage come from what charges are alloted for individual acts. depending on the kingdom a comment could be considered as insolance or outright assault to the aristocracy. > maybe its just me and my own Southern heritage in this slave dilemma. as a > southerner we have that slavery history as well as a better historical > understanding of US slave issues than that taught in the public school > system. i am a realist in regards to slave statuses, who used slaves, who > didn't use slaves, and how slaves were treated and punished. Don't worry about it, thanks to my British heritage I understand stuff like colonialism and the Opium Wars :)>> well....let me clarify a bit. in the deep south, evidence of the slave period is all around. within a five minute drive i can ride past the old slave market. i can drive past actual plantation grounds with actual ruins of slave quarters. then there is the human perspective as well....where family records can be easily viewed which cover the slave period of the USA. the actual slaveownng population was small. slaves were a costly investment, each comparable to buying a new car. likewise slave treatment was oppressive, but more mental than physical in execution. alot of the misconceptions derive from Hollywood, "Uncle Tom's Cabin", and sadly a rather light handed approach in contemporary public shooling eductational texts. "Uncle Tom's Cabin" was a fictional compilation of every worst case slave cliche scenarios imaginable. its publishing was also a very real example of abolishionist propaganda. I think it was Lincoln who remarked that the book was fundimental in starting the conflict between north and south. > yes. however DotE was written by the same person hence the similar format. also the author quite purposely combined the two for his own comparisons. imo that is a disgrace for two empires the size of Alph and Thy. to me the actual potential of their respective Gazs was undermined by the intent to compare everything in the same work. had each even been given their own Gaz, even if written by the same author, i think that the product would have been more central to each respective empire. > anyway...i do not see how Thy's slave laws unilaterally shoot down my stance > in Alph slave practices being so out of the ordinary. if anything Thy's slave > laws are the exception to a general practice of slavery where conditions were > the whim of the owners and freedom was a fleeting prospect at best. Maybe Thy's slave laws are oddities compared to the RW institutions, but on Mystara Thyatis and Alphatia seem to represent 90% of the worlds slave trade. As James has already pointed out, there are very few (none?) nations aside from these two empires that have the institution of slavery at all.>> mystarawise alph, thy, and milenia are the main slave states. of these three alph and milenia are most consistent with each other and with RW slave societies. thy slave practices are out of the ordinary as they imply some hope of freedom in the long run. personally i see this aspect being made more into a quasi-form of indentured servitude than outright slave status. << The Thy laws make sense, because there are a lot more slaves in Thyatis than in Alphatia. This means the slaves presumably can pressure more easily for some measure of human rights. >> what has struck me as being odd about the Thys is where they get all these slaves. since the trend is for the Thys to offer citizenship to conquered people for assimilation into the empire, the flow of new slaves is a bit puzzling especially with so many slaves supposedly gaining their freedom eventually. since thy slaves are numerous and needed for the empire's economy where do these slaves come from. DotE has them numbering up to 30% in some areas and being the basis for the thy economy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:17:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/00 7:15:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << > Just out of interest, what happens if the commoner is unable to pay the > required reparations? 900% of the cost is likely to be more than a commoner > has, given the limits on what he can own and how much hard currency he is > likely to earn.>> > > that's a good point as there is no mention of what happens if compensation > cannot be made. i could assume that loans be granted by alph bankers or > loansharks to pay this fine in exchange for repayment, collateral, returned > services, or being indentured. of course the court may get involved and alter > sentencing or pace compensation out over a period of time....like RW victim's > restitution. then there is confiscation of properties and income garnishing > to pay the court debt. simply put....it doesn't say so any offerings is > purely based on assumptions. however i doubt that slavery would come into > play based on a rather simple assault charge. Probably unlikely that a bank would offer a loan to a penniless criminal. Indentured servitude most likely - quite likely to be a Slave of the victim, perhaps permanently, perhaps for a fixed amount of time.>> i'll state again that i am really unsure. i guess that a bank may take out a lien on the guilty's properties. anyway....some sort of compensation would be worked out. some way would be found to pay for the restorations. i think that alot depends on who is all involved. but yes....i think that relegation to slave status may be in line if the guilty party cannot pay. however i would like to add that i am unsure if the slave would be handed over to the victim in all cases. the reason for this is that the slave would probably be offered to the caster that restored the victim. monetarily this may not cover the spellcasting cost. however the new owner may very well find the victim as being quite open to purchse the slave at above market prices. << Yeah, but again what if the murderer cannot pay? Does the State fork out the 20,000gp for a raise dead? I find that very hard to believe. Unless the murderer is rich, that sentence doesn't really work.>> see above for compensation. however the wealth does factor in. the wealthy can simply pay the fines and compensation. the victims reap the rewards. it's actualy like civil court lawsuits. hmm....i wonder if alphs might not have some sort of liability insurance for possible court fines. it could be highly lucrative if the underwriters can moderate their pay outs. hmm....i have somewhere around here a series of novels about a financial consortium that underwrites rather big projects. to protect their interests they keep on retainer an above the law type mercenary team to meet any threats, escort projects, and offer security. i recall them at one time securing the space shuttle from terrorists, securing a off shore oil platform, etc. in alpher terms such an underwriters group could exist and have its own adventurer types on retainer. with alphs rivalries the agents could be kept busy preventing possible incidents that may cost the company money. or they could be sent to investigate incidents to disprove the liability of someone their employers had insured. iirc there is a similar thread used for the 70s tv show. it starred George Peppard of A-Team fame and he had this polish name....Belichek or something...which was also the shows title. i think that A&E still plays episodes. > good point. though i think that the law would take precedent over the trial > and punishment of the charges. of course a more powerful aristocrat that was > raped may wish to keep the matter under wraps and exact their justice through > a duel. however if the rape victim is the weaker of the two, they would be > more vocal in the use of the law to settle the matter over risky life in limb > in a duel that had them at a disadvantage. Maybe, but I think if the duel took place immediately, before charges were brought to bear, there wouldn't be much the victim could do about it. The accused could duel the victim on a slander claim and even get some potential credibility. Once the victim/witnesses are dead, would the law still apply? (Especially if the accused took the pains of disintegrating the witnesses, which kindof stiffs any magical interrogation of the corpses).>> well....to me a duel is more a matter of ceremony. setting a duel up probably has a fair degree of formalities and preparations. i have used duels being used in lew of prosecution in the almanac. both instances in last year's almanac were based on desire affects of the victims. one saw a grey spot in the law where a traitor was killed by a vengeful Verothrics. it was highly political as well. a duel was viewed as the best way to handle the matter; by making it a personal grudge over a legal matter. the other duel was based on the shoddy repairs of a theater in Starpoint which collapsed and killed a number of attendees. the families were quite intent on gaining their own justice, placing bounties on the accused to bring them into custody. they then hired professional duelists to supplement their own side in a mass duel. given the crime's expansiveness, the duel worked better than simple due process as there were so many victims and families to compensate. > yes....it would have been nice for a bit more detailling. Thy and Alph are > way too big and way too complex for the paltry amount of material offered in > DotE. however the way the Thy vs. Alph sects have developed noncanon develope > is always subject to the bias and prejudices of the person detailling the > regions. Well yeah, I'm not slagging further work by fans, far from it, but I am of the opinion that further work should be an extension of what is already written about the place, rather than some tangent.>> oh yes i agree. one reason that i am rewriting the Randel Gaz is to take into account certain aspects that i was not aware of when it was initially written. the thing with randel was that there was very little written on the kingdom. so i took what was offered and expanded upon it. to fill in the gaps i drew heavily on the foundations of military communities and adapted them to the alph mindset. in short, randel is an ultramilitarist culture with some extremist alpher aspects. the blending of these and the establishing of their foundation has been quite interesting. > Is this bad? If you read the Darokin gaz the place seems to be like the > model utopian Free Market. It constantly stresses fair play, the abilities > of even the poorest to go from rags to riches, etc. etc. Regarding the > penalties, bear in mind that fines not only represent an impact on the > sentenced individuals wealth - they also include a drop in social status by > definition, by the way that Darokinian society works.>> > > as far as justice, Darokin offers the potential for gold buying justice. > though it may sound strange coming from me, it's my opinion that justice in > the law should be beyond matters such as money and influence. when coin or > prestige do circumvent justice of the law, it should only be the precursory > hook to motivate a band of adventurers to right a wrong. Possibly, but I find that hard to believe in Darokin. Constantly multiple sources (not least the Darokin gaz) say how fair Darokinian merchants are. A reputation of corruption (which is what things like bribery are) is bad for business, and therefore bad for Darokin. I can't see any evidence of those practices at all in Darokin, quite the contrary, I can see hints of a scrupulously fair legal system. (Of course, there may be isolated incidents, there always is, but even so.)>> well i think that is mixture of truth and perception as created by the darokin people. "maintaining business" seems to be the status quo in darokin society. i think that the darokin authorities would be rather quick to fudge the law to keep businesses running smoothly. i also think that there are ample opportunities for a bit of self interest on the part of the various trade houses. afterall....each can lay claim to being the controlling factor in at least one city. i would assume that that offers them a rather lucrative place in assigning local officials. now i am not saying that they flaunt the law or even abuse it. it's just that when the errant house official or family mebers crosses a legal line, there is room for the house to look after its own interests to maintain the business part. i would also add that their fudging would be done quite covertly as not to worsen a bad situation through disclosure of their manipulations or by offering a legal resolution that is so obviously scandalous in nature. you'd probably see some under the table compensation to the victims. <> i think that there is something along those lines in some semiannual census or audit which establishes who has the financial pool to warrant class advancement. as for book keeping and keeping the books clean i think that most of that would be handled by the individual houses. for imo outside investors would bargain and negotiate with the houses themselves before entering into any ventures. so to a degree each house would have a "public relations" section. imo the role of the Darokin trade houses was never fully exploited. to a degree i explain this on darokin's position on Brun and its relationship with its neighbors as "the moderator". now i am not saying that the trade houses are covertly these dark entities either. i just think that there is are opportunities for aggressive business competiton to be crossed over to add realism and adventure potential. > well....a typical mage can feasibly have access to spells to evade capture. > likewise they are less likely to be pursued if their actions are deemed > magely acceptable....the excuse being that they evaded capture. i say this as > the mages are essentially a class upon itself in glantri.....much like a > guild. there's a great dea of revelry between the mages and therefore the > foundations for mages to cover each other's back. All true. Of course the Summons One Dares Not Deny spell, backed up with Pierce Any Shield, limits the measures that a felon can take if he is attempting to flee justice, and if he is worthy of the Princes attention.>> but there is the key. the accused must be worthy of attention from the Prince or from the Judiciary. with only a week as a statute of limitations, the mage has an added head start as the charges are formerly brought up and added to the judiciary's docket. feasibly it could be days before the fugitive is even addressed. if he has formidable allies or has taken the precautions he may be unreachable. admitedly alot of this resides with the difference from mage and mundaner in glantri. the week statute of limitations offers an excuse why the accused was never prosecuted. as mentioned i feel that glantri has that gap between mage and mundaner, however the gantrian nobility tend to cover that gap with subtle mandates that favor the mage. and its not really unfounded as glantrian mages essentially have gone to extremes to secure their hold on glantrian power. > < dead on tap like that, fine, but my Mystara doesn't. Talk about game > wrecking!>> > > i agree with you there. use allowed raise dead type spells but at a cost more > dependant upon compensatory quests than outright payment in coin. for > instance my high level clerics rarely had a raise dead spell in their granted > spell list unless the Immortals (cough cough the DM) had "foreseen" a need > that even the cleric did not see at the time. I use a modified piety point system (it was in an old Dragon mag) to represent an individuals standing with his professed religion. You only get raise deads and suchlike if you are pious enough - it is a miracle after all, not to be given to the unworthy.>> we went to great measures to make a cleric's spells being more determined by the immortal....thus adding emphasis to the "granting of spells". to do this we usually had the cleric mediate with the immortal. during which a series of spells would be offered at the behest of the immortal based on the immortal's forethought of the needs of the cleric, the demands of the task, and based within the edicts of the immortal. there were many instances where granted spells did not immediately make sense to the players, but came in handy later on as the adventure developed. imo this placed an emphasis on the immortal's guidance and the immortla's role. the spells were not specific all engineered for use in the coming adventure, they were more based on possible quest requirements. > Once more the point has totally missed you. If Thyatis really was a total > hellhole where the elites didnt give a damn about their peons, there wouldnt > be any bread money at all. Thats the point I was making.>> > > no i did not miss the point. the elites are not funding the bread....the thy > government is. the move is a rather inexpensive means at crowd control and > appeasement at the masses of citizens. when was the bread program > established? beats me as it is not listed. it could be as old as the empire > or merely a relatively new mandate to bolster the privilage of the citizenry. > anyway...during wrath the program went to crap thanks to corrupt mishandling > of the funds and bread production facilities. given that thy was embroilled > in a pretty hectic war...i really don't see it as that big a deal as the > resources for the bread would surely be stressed to begin with. Yeah, but the elites in Thyatis we are talking about are basically nobles and senators, ie the government.>> yes....but how big is Thy's government? official sources give it as being huge and often a bureaucratic monster. since wealth can often buy government positions and positions seem prestigous, then perhaps the nobility is quite representative of the wealthy. perhaps the wealthy are involved in the government in some degree. > Well, no Thyatian can off another Thyatian on a whim, not even the nobles - > and not even to criminals. Thats the main point I was raising.>> > > hmm....the problem is that "whim" is used. it is assumed that the alph > aristos relish running through the streets offing mundaners like sporting > clays. that's a very big assumption with little backing to support it. Thats irrelevant. The fact is they can should they choose. And if they can, sometimes they will.>> how is that irrelevant? motivation is key to any action whether it is legal or illegal. every action, no matter how small, is dependant upon motivation. imo the simple notation that they can kill a slave with only the fear of financial compensation to the owner is not enough to justify a widespread practice of killing slaves on whims or just because they can. however i suspect that we will just have to agree to disagree in regards to that. <> well....if the servants are ghouls they wouldn't be able to press charges :-) actually you bring up a good point. as with any judiciary there is opprtunity for partiality and influence to decide cases. i think that that is where social acceptance comes into play. the alph necromancer may not deemed as favorably in more contemporay kingdoms such as Haven, Theranderol, Stonewall, etc. however that is where Blackheart comes into play where the law is basically ingored altogether accept for assaults on the king's interests. ironically enough Blackheart is very open as the lack of enforcement and "don't start none, won't be none" attitude keeps things in line. if matters do escalate the winner prevails as law doesn't matter. however, the above begs another slant to be addressed. given the mindset of a mage being superior over the mundaners would an aristo make public any incident that compromised that attitude. imo it may be quite embarrassing for a mage to divulge that a mundaner had gotten the best of him. for that matter, i think prestige would come heavily into play in regards to putting any matters before the judiciary. coincidently this may benefit the mundanes as given their lower status they may be more expectant to press legal matters without fear of being ridiculed by other mundaners. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:17:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/00 11:15:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI writes: << Alex Benson wrote: > > well i assume that i am being refered to here. in truth...i supported the thy > annexation of the Thadder lands. afterall i did something similar in OpHydra. > however i was quite objectionable to how the thys gained them. when > challenged on that i was asked to offer a counter proposal. i had no plan to Yet you had no problems with how NACE gained some of its own new lands, where people basically tripped all over themselves to join it with open arms, all within the space of a year or two. >> what lands would those be? what peoples are being discussed? i asked as i did have reservations about many of the events initiated into past almanacs. when asked to critique your Thy annexing MG plan I explained my objections and concerns at great lengths. i had actually assumed that we had established closure on that one. could you clarify what lands and what people you are refering to. i would be more than willing to offer my stance. though i would prefer to take it off the MML as it may entail bringing up future plans and such. however i can add this bit in lew of any definite refrences. what was published varies from the original premise presented to the team. what was published was also a team effort, where the material was discussed at great extent and alterred over the months to its published state. in may cases the material is completely overhauled to bear little semblance to its original state. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:18:05 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/13/00 12:45:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Several matters: >> Aegos was a big issue in almanac developement and one that was supposedly resolved countless times, yet was constantly brought back up whenever some Thy relevant plot was trying to be passed through. << I didn't want to answer this immediately because I wanted to think about it and gather my recolections first, but actually it came up about as often as other matters that I had thought had already been resolved were re-aired and re-argued, usually as if previous discussions hadn't taken place. Anyhow, I'll leave it at that rather than going into the particulars - unless *you* want to, something I'd really advise you not to do, in your own interest. . .>> hmm....that sounds like a threat. however it strikes me as being odd that you now advocate avoiding "re-airing" and "re-argued" matters since you yourself are very prone to the very such thing. however ... i am ending all of this right here. what started out as a response to Rob has escalated into the same old rhetoric between you and myself. i never asked for your opinion on the matter, however being a public forum i respected your right to respond. at the time i felt that not responding to your response in the thread would have been deamed more rude than responding to it. anyway....i am sick of it....and i am sure the rest of the MML is as well. i resigned from certain almanac teams for this very reason. My apologies to the rest of the forum. with this letter ends my communications with James....again. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:05:12 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: Big Party Problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed hi everyone, Does anyone have clue what to do with a party that doesn't seem to get along? It is not the players can get along, but the characters seem to have lots of problems to get along. Some are very individual and just go off and do something, while the rest of theb party was doing something else. This is what happened: In order to get into the thieves guild The Iron Ring they had to cut off a piece of the hair of the Tormandros (the townmaster of Mirros), I stole this idea from the description of Terrari, I think. Two of them decided to have a look if there was a lot of security, but instead of just looking they decided to try and get it, which didn't exactly worked. It got out of hand and four guards were killed. Now this caused a lot of stress in the party because one character is good, so he didn't exactly agreed with them killing off three guards. they also killed a guard when he was tied and gagged, just because he had asked one of the characters to leave in a rude way. Somehow, a lot of the encounters end in battle, which I don't like very much. Now I have tought of a way to make them realise that not everythinh can be solved by killing persons they encounter. During the battle one of the PCs was captured and he said that he his wife and children were captured by the Iron Ring and that he had to do this or his family would be killed. He came up with a very long and complex story, so the guard decided to set him free to look for his family (lucky dex check!!). This guard wasn't killed, but he remembered the name of Iron Ring, since they invaded the Townmaster's territory the guard, thinks this was an assassination attempt by the Iron Ring. He tells this so the Iron Ring is targeted by the City Guards. The Iron Ring is driven back from the Nest and the Old Quarter. The city guards arrest a dwarf, who the PC couldn't get along with, so he decided to tell everything about the PCs and in order to save himself he told some more about the IR. Now the IR doesn't tolerate this and demands the PCs to go after the dwarf. They are storngly adviced to do so, because otherwise they are not only wanted by the City Guards for the assassination attempt on the Townmaster but they will also be hunted by the IR. Do you think this will make them realise that they have to be more careful next time? I just hope that they realise that everything they do has consequences. The dwarf, who was arrested, has to leave the IR and even Karameikos (maybe just Mirros), so I think he will definetly be thinking of revenge on the PC, because he had quite a high position in the IR, I think it will also be reasonable for the dwarf to blame them, because this fits with his personality and character traits. I thought about Immortal intervention (so an Immoral telling them to stop killing and do something for them) but I thought I have to save this for when this doesn't work out. Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? I could use some help because I need the PCs to become a tight group in order for them to go through some hard adventures. Thanks. Regards, Max ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:17:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: creatures classes (was Becoming a Lich) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Humanoids - sozial system (some), intellegent,language, use weapons > (mostly).... > > ex.: humans, elves, dwarfs, orks, ogre, giants, even centaure belongs to > that group > > > > monster: > > here i have different groups. > > magical improved humanoids: they are humanoids plus magial skills. > > ex.: drow, ogre mage, nixie, some giant... > > Why isn;'t an ogre mage in the humanoid part? > And drow? They are a classic humanoid (although they are not Mystarans...) > there are still creatures that belongs to more then one group. the drow - they are still elves and have also special magical skills. so i say that they belong to the normal humanoid group and also to the magical improved humanoid group. i explane that in they way - with that some of you will disagree - druids are able to shapeshift. i allow that druids can shift with the manmal part to become a manmal. in most systems that manmal skill is used to become a fox, bear..... i allow in addition to become a human. because in a biological way humans are still manmals. i also allow to become a griffon. important notes!!!: the player should ask me if he want to become something like a griffin. i had only explaned how i see that skill. IMC the one druid only use the manmal skill to become an ork and an elf. he has to that time not the idea to shift to a griffon. but if he get it i would allow it. magical skills of the magical improved humanoids. i think hat these a gain at birth or by get levels. drow and ogre mage become more power while get mor levels. (so it is written in "drow of the underdark", "elven handout", "humanoid handout".) a druid is able to become a drow. but has only the special skill like all elves to see in darkness. he would not gain the levitation or other spell like abilities. > > > > created: the are created by someone and could not get babies. > > golems, machiens, homonculous... > > > > I think that nixies and the like fall into the Feary catagory (see PC1) and > don't forget the Treants, Satyrs and Dryads (nature spirits?). Undead can be > further categorised into corporal and incorporal beings. There also are > planar creatures (all those not naturaly born on the prime). And the list > goes on. > yes there are a lot of groups more. i have some more. but i will create new one, if i need them. to that time i need not really a feary group. but if i need it i would create it. (i think that would be fast). corporal and incorporal undead are for me still clear. > > I think the animals-monster part is a problem. Does a Mystaran see a Lion > differently than a Griffon? Both are top predators. The only difference is > that in the RW a griffon does not exist. But what about dragons? yes, that say some of our group too. for explanation: we play in different camp. but with mostly the same players. i think that a mystaran man would it handel like i. for him, that two creatures both are top predators. both act by animal instincts. dragons? what should be with them? they are IMO one of the powerfullest monsters. they are no animals - to int.. they are a part of reptile, but no druid can shift to a dragon. they are uniq. - there is more as one red dragon, but the have names and powers that is unknown. they have the fighting power of an army, spell power of highlevel mages. and are (some of them) high int.. so a dragon has some more spells as the humans and elves know. some of them are godlike. i would not so easy allow to kill a dragon, as my masterfriend it allow. i would construkt a special battle action. mage and priest also cast defensive spells before a big fight. hast, protection of XXX (anything), streangh on a fighter, and so on. the skill of the dragon, that he knows, that someone is entert his lair should give him some time to cast spells. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:25:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Big Party Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In order to get into the thieves guild The Iron Ring they had to cut off a > piece of the hair of the Tormandros (the townmaster of Mirros), They want to join a society of slavers? Cool, all the good adventurers out there wil be hunting them down soon! I stole > this idea from the description of Terrari, I think. Two of them decided to > have a look if there was a lot of security, but instead of just looking they > decided to try and get it, which didn't exactly worked. It got out of hand > and four guards were killed. Now this caused a lot of stress in the party > because one character is good, so he didn't exactly agreed with them killing > off three guards. they also killed a guard when he was tied and gagged, just > because he had asked one of the characters to leave in a rude way. Somehow, > a lot of the encounters end in battle, which I don't like very much. Looks like the bad apples are about to be shopped for murder by their good comerade IMO. If they're not then just how good is he? > Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? > I could use some help because I need the PCs to become a tight group in > order for them to go through some hard adventures. Was it your plan to have the PC's be a "Wild Bunch"? If not then Mention to all that random murders such as this will be seriously hunted down. Maybe by having the reward poster for the guilty PC's appearing in the "Black Hearted Lily". Whilst one of the other PC's is there he would see some well known adventurers mentioning that since one of the deceased was a friend of his second cousin, or some such, even though the price was below his usual fee this job would be done on principle. Also it's nasty I know but do hound the PC's with the law over this. HANG the guilty parties for the murder of the tied up guard if neccesary. Whilst this will not stop them from killing again at least next time they'll make sure not to get caught. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:13:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Big Party Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > hi everyone, > > Does anyone have clue what to do with a party that doesn't seem to get > along? It is not the players can get along, but the characters seem to have > lots of problems to get along. Some are very individual and just go off and > do something, while the rest of theb party was doing something else. > This is what happened: > > In order to get into the thieves guild The Iron Ring they had to cut off a > piece of the hair of the Tormandros (the townmaster of Mirros), I stole > this idea from the description of Terrari, I think. Two of them decided to > have a look if there was a lot of security, but instead of just looking they > decided to try and get it, which didn't exactly worked. It got out of hand > and four guards were killed. Now this caused a lot of stress in the party > because one character is good, so he didn't exactly agreed with them killing > off three guards. they also killed a guard when he was tied and gagged, just > because he had asked one of the characters to leave in a rude way. Somehow, > a lot of the encounters end in battle, which I don't like very much. > Now I have tought of a way to make them realise that not everythinh can > be solved by killing persons they encounter. During the battle one of the > PCs was captured and he said that he his wife and children were captured by > the Iron Ring and that he had to do this or his family would be killed. He > came up with a very long and complex story, so the guard decided to set him > free to look for his family (lucky dex check!!). This guard wasn't killed, > but he remembered the name of Iron Ring, since they invaded the Townmaster's > territory the guard, thinks this was an assassination attempt by the Iron > Ring. He tells this so the Iron Ring is targeted by the City Guards. The > Iron Ring is driven back from the Nest and the Old Quarter. The city guards > arrest a dwarf, who the PC couldn't get along with, so he decided to tell > everything about the PCs and in order to save himself he told some more > about the IR. Now the IR doesn't tolerate this and demands the PCs to go > after the dwarf. They are storngly adviced to do so, because otherwise they > are not only wanted by the City Guards for the assassination attempt on the > Townmaster but they will also be hunted by the IR. > Do you think this will make them realise that they have to be more careful > next time? I just hope that they realise that everything they do has > consequences. The dwarf, who was arrested, has to leave the IR and even > Karameikos (maybe just Mirros), so I think he will definetly be thinking of > revenge on the PC, because he had quite a high position in the IR, I think > it will also be reasonable for the dwarf to blame them, because this fits > with his personality and character traits. > I thought about Immortal intervention (so an Immoral telling them to stop > killing and do something for them) but I thought I have to save this for > when this doesn't work out. > > Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? > I could use some help because I need the PCs to become a tight group in > order for them to go through some hard adventures. > Thanks. Regards, > > Max Simple. Arrest them all (if not for the alctual murder itself, then for being the murderers "accomplices"). When they are taken to court, have them sentenced to life-time inprisonment. After their sentencing, have them approached by an agent of the Karameikan Reformation Program (well it works well in my campaign! :} ), who will offer them a way out of spending a life-time in jail - by joining the Karameikan Secret Service. Test them with one or two annoying little "jobs" with a seriously powerful party of KSS NPCs watching their results. If they behave themselves, get the mission done, then slowly they'll be given a bit more responsiblity (and more challenging missions). That should shake them up a bit, but if they do go off the rails again you've still got that seriously hard party to send after them and haul them off to jail (or the chopping block, because, by committing crimes whilst in the Kings "employ", it could be constrewed as treason!!). The one good thing with this method is, of course, keeping the PCs off balance. They could be thinking of murdering that annoying little barman, but whose to say the serving wench, the cook, the drunk in the corner, or even the barman himself doesn't work (as informant or otherwise) for the KSS! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:27:06 +0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr of the Azure Star Subject: Re: Thyatian Events Explained MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > Yet you had no problems with how NACE gained some of its own new lands, > where people basically tripped all over themselves to join it with open > arms, all within the space of a year or two. >> > > what lands would those be? what peoples are being discussed? i asked as i did Thothia, Qeodhar, Dunadale, Helskir, Aegos, Esterhold, Norwold. As far as I can see, the only real reason for them to join NACE is them being Alphatians. But by that line of reasoning, Karameikos should rejoin Thyatis, being ruled by Thyatians (and Thyatians are even much more lawful and community-oriented than Alphatians). -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:14:17 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Big Party Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max Monas wrote: > > Does anyone have clue what to do with a party that doesn't seem to get > along? It is not the players can get along, but the characters seem to have > lots of problems to get along. Some are very individual and just go off and > do something, while the rest of theb party was doing something else. > This is what happened: > [snipped] > I thought about Immortal intervention (so an Immoral telling them to stop > killing and do something for them) but I thought I have to save this for > when this doesn't work out. > I'd keep this one for a last attempt, if everything else fails, unless a character happens to be a priest of a non-evil Immortal. If so, I'd have him warned by an omen or just stripped of some powers, which should be mandatory if the Immortal was good. > Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? First, I'd "tempt" them into another crime, but I'd have a witness survive... when they're wanted, they will understand that sometimes sheer brawn isn't too useful. If this isn't enough, I'd send a party of powerful good aligned NPCs to capture them (Aleena Halaran & the Order of the Griffon should work fine for this). This should be a no win encounter, so I'd give the law enforcers all advantages. If the PCs have been particularly nasty, some could actually die in the combat. Then I'd use the Karameikan law for jail/fine sentence conversion to send them on a risky mission. BTW, I understand that in your party there's a single good character. If the majority of the other PCs are actually evil, he will not stand long. OTOH, neutral characters should not go on killing rampage and get PX for this deed. Third, if the PCs attract to much attention toward the Iron Ring, the organization will be displeased, and the next would-be members could have as their task the elimination of the PC group. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:20:19 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Thyatian Slaves (was: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alex Benson wrote: > > mystarawise alph, thy, and milenia are the main slave states. of these three > alph and milenia are most consistent with each other and with RW slave > societies. thy slave practices are out of the ordinary as they imply some > hope of freedom in the long run. personally i see this aspect being made more > into a quasi-form of indentured servitude than outright slave status. > Why? In RW, Roman laws allowed slaves to attain freedom and rise in the social ladder. In the imperial age, many powerful ministers were former slaves. Thyatian law is surely less restrictive than RW Roman, but this accounts for the fact that, in general, the Known World is more advanced than the Roman Empire. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:21:43 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rob wrote: > > > The Gator Men actually appear in module DA4: Duchy of Ten. Yep, that's > > right- the Gator Men were in the marshes west of Blackmoor, over 3,000 > > years in Mystara's past. :) > > Wow, than Herath has been around forever, as they were made by Herathians > (!). > Probably Demogorgon took adantage of the Herathian experimentations to revive the long-dead Gator Men. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:55:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-14 8:18:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Alex295@AOL.COM writes: << see above for compensation. however the wealth does factor in. the wealthy can simply pay the fines and compensation. the victims reap the rewards. it's actualy like civil court lawsuits. hmm....i wonder if alphs might not have some sort of liability insurance for possible court fines. >> One point to note is that there are many crimes whose punishments include confiscation of all of the offender's property, even above that needed to pay court costs and provide compensation to the victim. Presumably this surplus could be used to make up the deficit in cases where the offender does not own enough property to compensate the court for expenses. And since a fine is considered a lesser punishment than confiscation of all of one's property, a poor criminal who has insufficient money to pay a fine presumably could not be forced to pay more than everything he owns. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:55:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Sources of Thyatian slaves (was Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-14 8:18:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Alex295@AOL.COM writes: << what has struck me as being odd about the Thys is where they get all these slaves. since the trend is for the Thys to offer citizenship to conquered people for assimilation into the empire, the flow of new slaves is a bit puzzling especially with so many slaves supposedly gaining their freedom eventually. since thy slaves are numerous and needed for the empire's economy where do these slaves come from. DotE has them numbering up to 30% in some areas and being the basis for the thy economy. >> There seem to be three possible sources of slaves: 1) Conquered people who refuse to be assimilated (presumably few in number). 2) Children of slaves (both parents) (a fairly large group given the rarity of cross-class marriages) 3) People convicted of "greater crimes" motivated by "chronic self-interest/ unsociability" (a group that is presumably large enough to make up for those slaves who are able to earn their freedom) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:42:34 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Big Party Problems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Do you think this will make them realise that they have to be more careful > next time? I just hope that they realise that everything they do has > consequences. The dwarf, who was arrested, has to leave the IR and even > Karameikos (maybe just Mirros), so I think he will definetly be thinking of > revenge on the PC, because he had quite a high position in the IR, I think > it will also be reasonable for the dwarf to blame them, because this fits > with his personality and character traits. > I thought about Immortal intervention (so an Immoral telling them to stop > killing and do something for them) but I thought I have to save this for > when this doesn't work out. > > Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? > I could use some help because I need the PCs to become a tight group in > order for them to go through some hard adventures. > Thanks. Regards, i would be very lucky. because the PC were so nice to give me a "powerful enemy". i know the problems if PC solve any problem with a battleaxe. but here the cityguards look for them and an IR dwarf want to blame it. the dwarf could follow the PC and could act in the background. if he is thief, he could by the next action the PC plan. inform the enemy of the PC. so the PC will be surprised by the enemy. ex. the PC want to steal somthing and want to do it by night. they check the house, garden and so on.... later they thing on that time anybody, ecept to two guards in the garden....... they come in the room, but there is some one, with some guards and a mage. because the victim knows excatly when the PC come. the dwarf should also be there. maybe some of the PC will be killed. but that would be a thing that they are not untoucheable. after that, the housekeeper could kill the dwarf, because he is a thief and knows to much. or the friendly houskeeper give the dwarf some gold, and the dwarf think about how much more money he could get if the blame the PC in that way. the dwarf could use the money to get back his former job by the IR. or only become rich. IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:22:11 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Beau >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] "Country Sites" question >Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:29:22 -0700 > > I recently won this accessory off of eBay, and have been really >impressed >by its utility. Some of the settings will work well in Ylaruam (I was >actually surprised by the number of desert settings) and I'm sure the >Sargasso Sea setting will be useful at some point. > But what I really like is the prison-in-a-swamp setting, the >Island of >Lost Souls. I was thinking of dropping it into Karameikos, but I realized I >know little about the swamp there. Is there any information I should be >looking for/know about? > And does anyone have any other suggestions on how I could best use >this >book? And are "City Sites" and "Castle Sites" worth tracking down? > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ >Hi Beau Another set of publications you might want to look into is the stuff from BLADE. It's a division of Flying Buffalo Games. They produced a number of accessories dealing mainly with just sites. I purchased their Citybook #1 Butcher,Baker and Candlestick Maker and it provided anumber of interesting businesses. Their stuff is generic so it can be dropped in just about anywhere with only a little refining. hope I helped Kevin >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:27:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question In-Reply-To: <20000514192211.57902.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:22 5/14/00 GMT, Kevin wrote: >Another set of publications you might want to look into is the stuff from >BLADE. It's a division of Flying Buffalo Games. They produced a number of >accessories dealing mainly with just sites. I purchased their Citybook #1 >Butcher,Baker and Candlestick Maker and it provided anumber of interesting >businesses. Their stuff is generic so it can be dropped in just about >anywhere with only a little refining. Yeah, I was actually planning on getting a bunch of those to help flesh out Glantri for a campaign this fall. But what's the King's River Bridge City Book about? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:57:39 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Beau Yarbrough >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] "Country Sites" question >Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:27:16 -0700 > >At 19:22 5/14/00 GMT, Kevin wrote: > > >Another set of publications you might want to look into is the stuff from > >BLADE. It's a division of Flying Buffalo Games. They produced a number of > >accessories dealing mainly with just sites. I purchased their Citybook #1 > >Butcher,Baker and Candlestick Maker and it provided anumber of >interesting > >businesses. Their stuff is generic so it can be dropped in just about > >anywhere with only a little refining. > > Yeah, I was actually planning on getting a bunch of those to help >flesh >out Glantri for a campaign this fall. But what's the King's River Bridge >City Book about? >Sorry Beau I haven't run across that book yet. Has anyone else? kevin > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:26:32 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Suitable Music for Mystaraphiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike & Rebecca Harvey ha scritto: > > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 > > Reply-to: Mystara > > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > > > > > who? > > > > what kind of music is it? > > Very cool heavy metal. > > Mike > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To be precise to the point of obnoxiosity (hey, if it is the wrong word don't blame me, it is a cool word and I wanted to use it somewhere, though I'm not sure on its meaning), it is epic metal. Other power and epic metal groups that could appeal to RPG fans are Rhapsody, Stratovarious, Helloween, Gamma Ray... On the other hand, there are a lot of non-metal groups that could be interesting on the matter. If you want to speak of it, either personally or on the list (although I know it is not a Mystaran topic, I suppose the List Ogre won't throw at me his super-special-cakes (made with gunpowder instead of flour) because of this). Greetings Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:26:34 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Hollow World Alfheim Elves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mischa E Gelman ha scritto: > > With all this talk about Hollow World civilizations and the challenges they > > face, I throw out this question- > > Another question came to my mind in light of the recent debates - what > would Hollow World 2000 look like? Who joins those currently inside? > Thyatis? Alfheim? A note: shouldn't the immortals have brought some of the Alfheim elves in the Hollow World as well????? If they saved the whole of the Alphatian Empire (also in consideration of the fact that it was one of them who was directly responsible for this, I know, I'm not wanting to bring up endless discussions on this, ok?), I think at least Ilsundal and Mealiden could have saved some elf from all the clans. Plus, there is probably a HW region where the elven clans wiped off by the Shadowlord live...with the possibility of adventure of some OW elves exploring the HW, and then suddenly finding a forest where a distant relative from the Geffronel (I think it is one of the dead clans, isn't it??) lives...then spreads the news to Wendar...I don't know. But I will definitely point out that an elven community has recently been taken to HW. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:26:42 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Shutko ha scritto: > Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! > 181 days, 15 hours, 14 minutes, 16 seconds till we run away. > DYSLEXICS OF THE WORLD, UNTIE! What should this mean????? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:50:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Sources of Thyatian slaves (was Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/14/2000 2:56:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << There seem to be three possible sources of slaves: 1) Conquered people who refuse to be assimilated (presumably few in number). >> How about captured soldiers of enemy armies. The Legion could take any wounded or surrendered enemies to be sold off at the auction block. This money would go largely to the officers and commanding general, but a small amout might trickle down to the men in the field. See Spatacus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:19:08 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: EXP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello together is there are an EXP table for PCs? i have seen in many adventures there stand at the end of the charakter diskription a number of EXP for that on. is there a table with that i can see how much an charakter NPC and PC is worth. it will listen very hard, but how much exp is an PC worth? IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:04:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Hollow World Alfheim Elves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > Mealiden could have > saved some elf from all the clans. Plus, there is probably a HW No. The Hollow world is to save civilizations that are about to be wiped out, not to be used to put perfectly healthy civilizations that just happen to have lost their lands. Alphatia was DESTROYED. That is, wiped off the face of the planet. Without Alphatia proper, the Alphatian civilization has completely fallen apart, and will die out as we know it soon. However, the Alfheim elves simply migrated somewhere else. That's not a reason to put them in the Hollow World. If that were true, then there would be ancient Hin civilizations, Gnome civilizations, and Illsundalian Elven civilizations already in the Hollow World. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:28:05 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Hollow World Alfheim Elves MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-14 6:12:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spymaster@PLANETFORTRESS.COM writes: << No. The Hollow world is to save civilizations that are about to be wiped out, not to be used to put perfectly healthy civilizations that just happen to have lost their lands. >> But their lands were conquered and the refugees faced a major change to their culture, which makes them just as much candidates for being sent to the Hollow World as the Milenians or the Tanagoro were. But it does seem obvious that there is an element of discretion involved in such matters, depending on the intentions of their patron Immortals. In the case of the Alfheim elves, Ilsundal probably prefers to work for his elves to either regain their old homeland or find a new one -- and keep in mind what a boon it would be if his Feadiel followers managed to complete that "Tree of Life" adventure and restore the Sylvan Realm before they were driven out of Alfheim. << If that were true, then there would be ancient Hin civilizations, Gnome civilizations, and Illsundalian Elven civilizations already in the Hollow World. >> Of these, I can certainly verify the existence of the gnome civilization (Oostdok) as well as hin among the Merry Pirates. As for the elves of Alfheim, I think Ilsundal would have been justified in removing them to the Hollow World at the time of the Hollow World invasion, but he was not ready to admit defeat at that time. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:28:20 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: Suitable Music for Mystaraphiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Hey, that's me, the original poster of the "Nightfall in Middle-Earth"!) Actually, I think it is RPG related. Mystara is RPG, thus using boolean.. AH!!! Forget all that crap! ;-) Serious, I do think music can enhance a game. The music in "Night of the Vampire", the organ... oh, yes! Much like "Phantom of the Opera", and THAT is the desired flavour. For combat, I recommend Manowar. Forget the devil worshipping idea and songs, just get the double-pedal drums and unsheath yuor swords! For that beautiful day on the forest, with birds singing cheerfulyy etc... or even a sunny day at hte Merchant Streets in Mirros I recommend Jethro Tull. The *best* flute. The bands *Mike & Rebecca Harvey* told you abou... they are great, yes. Nice gaming you all, folks. vini. Caroletti wrote: > > Mike & Rebecca Harvey ha scritto: > > > > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 > > > Reply-to: Mystara > > > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > > > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > > > > > > > who? > > > > > > what kind of music is it? > > > > Very cool heavy metal. > > > > Mike > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To be precise to the point of obnoxiosity (hey, if it is the wrong word don't > blame me, it > is a cool word and I wanted to use it somewhere, though I'm not sure on its > meaning), > it is epic metal. Other power and epic metal groups that could appeal to RPG > fans are > Rhapsody, Stratovarious, Helloween, Gamma Ray... > On the other hand, there are a lot of non-metal groups that could be > interesting on the matter. > If you want to speak of it, either personally or on the list (although I know > it is not a Mystaran > topic, I suppose the List Ogre won't throw at me his super-special-cakes > (made with gunpowder instead > of flour) because of this). > > Greetings > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:41:18 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Magical Interrogation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > This may be true, but as an AD&D player its relevant to me :) Also it seems > that Alex uses AD&D as well, though I could be wrong about that. >But since this a Mystara Mailing List, most of us prefer discussing things from both an OD&D and AD&D point of view. I havnt seen a huge amount of evidence of that, to be honest. Although choice of gaming system is irrelevant really, as we were talking about Alphatia. > From a different angle, I'm strongly against any divination spell from being > foolproof, so I would hazard to venture that the AD&D spell is considerably > more balanced from a campaign point of view. Although if were running under > the D&D rules, I would probably say that Alphatian thieves have learnt to > resist it somehow >In OD&D the ESP spell isn't as omnipotent as that. It only allows the wizard to "hear" thoughts, not to probe a person's mind for specific info. If the target is >aware that it is being performed, I'm pretty sure that you can suppress what you don't want people to know by thinking hard on something else. And the Alphatian >thieves are probably trained in exactly that. Well, I guess Alex was talking about the AD&D version, in which case the response was justified. Otherwise, he was mistaken - though the end result is that I was still right (I like this :). > (It may even make thieves a class remotely worth having). >This is neither here nor there (and I seem to recall a discussion of this not long ago), but for what it's worth I almost exclusively play thieves, so I have no idea >what you mean by that remark. Thieves infilitrate. Mages can infiltrate better. Thats basically the point... Though it may be less of a problem in D&D than in AD&D, thats not how I remember my 5 years of D&Ding... Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:57:06 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: EXP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a table that uniquely links (well, that expression makes sense in Portuguese, at least...) *HD and XP*, thus the only thing you have to know is the HD of any CREATURE to know its XP value. "But HP? Normal XP, only that?" No, no, there is another table, for _additional HP via magical items, more than n HD, spellcaster or not_ etc. Thus, a player of mine, the dumb Ranger that always destroy my best monsters (damn you, Arcadium!!!) is level 10, but with all the additional levels (magical ring, sword etc), is something around 20. Source: DMG. Hope it helps. vini. erewan laubgaenger wrote: > > hello together > is there are an EXP table for PCs? > i have seen in many adventures there stand at the end of the charakter > diskription > a number of EXP for that on. > is there a table with that i can see how much an charakter NPC and PC is worth. > it will listen very hard, but how much exp is an PC worth? > IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:52:20 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Alphatia and ... bla, bla, bla MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > yes. actually if you look at Talitha and assume she derives from Mystara > there is ample grounds for thieves acting without a typical guild > organization. Talitha is limited in canon material yet comes off as being > rather a loner. afterall a TG is essentially a support structure for the > thieves in an area. however, a thieves guild may not neccessarily revolve > around the typical TG configuration .... such as Den of Thieves. the support > organization could actually be supported by aristos thus providing a degree > of magical output in their favor and a degree of protection within the legal > system. i also like the precept that the alph authorities don't accept the > possibilities of a thief based crime organization.+++ If there was a thieves guild it could be set up as a cell structure like that used by intelligence services, limiting the amount of damage that can be done in the event of counterintelligence activities. Your last point is something I was moving towards anyway with ESP - overreliance on magics superiority could be a problem if the thieves have managed to find a way to dupe the "omnipotent" ESP spell - thus there could be a huge thieves guild which the mages refuse to even acknowledge :) Now thats poetic :) > initial probes. but i think that it would be very difficult for someone to > repress the actual events pertaining to what his or she is being questioned > about. being held for questioning being a constant reminder at the incident. > if you ask a question, the individual must mentally register the events even > if it is to formulate a false response. this registration is the key to RW > lie detectors or interogations where body language is used to determine the > truth. Well, thats the saving throw. But it is a saving throw with a bonus in AD&D, ie not a very difficult one. The spell wasn't really intended to be used in that way IMO, its simply not that powerful. > < (and > not an eye witness at that - you might say his testimony is effectively > second hand) also limits the reliance that should be placed on magic. In a > magocracy where magic is the answer to everything doubtless magic is used, > but that doesn't necessarily mean that it works all the time. Its just a > case of>> > > yes but it is still more accurate than relying upon eye witness testimonies. > also i think that what is overlooked is the general intent of DotE in regards > to Alpher Law and its use of magic. essentially the premise is that if you > commit a crime or are a victim in one, the truth will come out. No it isnt, its as reliable as is the casting wizard. The whole system is wide open to abuse, depending on the reliability of the casting wizards. So performance could run the spectrum as I said earlier, from corrupt to uselessness to scrupulously fair. > yes. however DotE was written by the same person hence the similar format. > also the author quite purposely combined the two for his own comparisons. imo > that is a disgrace for two empires the size of Alph and Thy. to me the actual > potential of their respective Gazs was undermined by the intent to compare > everything in the same work. had each even been given their own Gaz, even if > written by the same author, i think that the product would have been more > central to each respective empire. Well, both places are huge and worth more than a 32 page booklet, to be sure. But flaws aside, it does make comparisons (on the most general level) between the two straightforward. In fact, that was the authors intent IMO. On the one hand you have your Lawful empire of fighters, and on the other you have your Chaotic nation of wizards. The accent on the difference between the two is the whole point of DoE it seems. > Maybe Thy's slave laws are oddities compared to the RW institutions, but on > Mystara Thyatis and Alphatia seem to represent 90% of the worlds slave > trade. As James has already pointed out, there are very few (none?) nations > aside from these two empires that have the institution of slavery at all.>> > > mystarawise alph, thy, and milenia are the main slave states. of these three > alph and milenia are most consistent with each other and with RW slave > societies. thy slave practices are out of the ordinary as they imply some > hope of freedom in the long run. personally i see this aspect being made more > into a quasi-form of indentured servitude than outright slave status. Milenia is something else though effectively - Thyatis is effectively Milenia 1500 years on (yeah, I know the history, and Thyatis is not Milenia, but culturally the two are comparable). Though the point is fair enough. > << The Thy laws make sense, because there are a lot more slaves in Thyatis > than > in Alphatia. This means the slaves presumably can pressure more easily for > some measure of human rights. >> > > what has struck me as being odd about the Thys is where they get all these > slaves. since the trend is for the Thys to offer citizenship to conquered > people for assimilation into the empire, the flow of new slaves is a bit > puzzling especially with so many slaves supposedly gaining their freedom > eventually. since thy slaves are numerous and needed for the empire's economy > where do these slaves come from. DotE has them numbering up to 30% in some > areas and being the basis for the thy economy. 30% is a vast number given the size of Thyatian cities. I'm not sure how well Thyatis treats its colonised dominions, or whether slavery is a hereditary condition, or whether it is used a punishment in the courts. But there must be a steady flow from somewhere, I guess. James? :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:29:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Ruhland Subject: Re: Slaving: Where to Get Them. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > 30% is a vast number given the size of Thyatian cities. I'm not sure how well Thyatis treats its colonised dominions, or whether slavery is a hereditary condition, or whether it is used a punishment in the courts. But there must be a steady flow from somewhere, I guess. << > > James? :) > Slavery is hereditary unless the slave has "married up" (which as someone pointed out is probably rare), and in that case the mother would no longer be a slave so the child wouldn't be, either. Colonized dominions: if by "how well Thyatis treats its colonized dominions" you mean "are they used as a source of slaves, I.E. are the conquered Hinterlanders enslaved?" then the answer seems to be "no" - they are generally given the status of citizens. Where does either Empire get slaves? Again, here's a topic that's been discussed some, but this is one where no solid conclusions have been made, as far as I can recall. Both Empires probably try to have their slave populations "self-sustain" as much as possible (have kids), but historically that's usually been dificult IRL (slave populations rarely reproduce at replacement levels, much less grow). You get some in each from consigning criminals to slavery. Plus in cases where persons are fined, again in each, it might be that they are sold into debt-slavery if they don't have connections somehow (I.E. can't get someone to "vouch" for them and/or promise to pay the debt). So both would have to import, some. Alphatia would probably also capture free-ranging Jennites. Thyatians might give those who are opposing them a choice, either implicit or explicit "submit after token resistance and you're Citizens, resist too hard and you'll be sold into slavery", plus rely on the Iron Ring and similar groups to supply a steady stream of slaves. Where and how slaves are aquired is one of those unseemly details that TSR didn't go into describing back in that era., though. But one can guess it is pretty much like IRL slaving operations were (and in some few areas still sort of are). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:20:10 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: Suitable Music for Mystaraphiles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > Mike & Rebecca Harvey ha scritto: > > > > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 > > > Reply-to: Mystara > > > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right > > > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > Other power and epic metal groups that could appeal to RPG > fans are > Rhapsody, Stratovarious, Helloween, Gamma Ray... > On the other hand, there are a lot of non-metal groups that could be > interesting on the matter. there is also Grave Digger, Orphanage, The Gathering, Amorhis (expecial the old one "Tales from the 1000 Lakes"), Moonspell.and some more) most of them you will never hear in the USA und in UK. but if you get them be funny. as non metal sound i chose mostly ciema music. Conan I, Conan II, Clannad "Legend" (made the Robin Hood TV sounds), Split second, 13 warrior (at the time i look for - in the film i like it). and there are some more IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:20:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Suitable Music for Mystaraphiles Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 14 May 2000 23:20:10 erewan laubgaenger wrote: >Caroletti wrote: > >> Mike & Rebecca Harvey ha scritto: >> >> > > Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:09:34 +0100 >> > > Reply-to: Mystara >> > > > I'm listening to "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" by Blind Guardian right >> > > > now. Excellent stuff for you, RPG enthusiasts, good people. Try it. > >> Other power and epic metal groups that could appeal to RPG >> fans are >> Rhapsody, Stratovarious, Helloween, Gamma Ray... >> On the other hand, there are a lot of non-metal groups that could be >> interesting on the matter. > >there is also Grave Digger, Orphanage, The Gathering, >Amorhis (expecial the old one "Tales from the 1000 Lakes"), Moonspell.and some >more) >most of them you will never hear in the USA und in UK. >but if you get them be funny. > >as non metal sound i chose mostly ciema music. >Conan I, Conan II, Clannad "Legend" (made the Robin Hood TV sounds), >Split second, 13 warrior (at the time i look for - in the film i like it). >and there are some more Yes, that is good stuff, but as long as we're talking film music, I'd like to add Wojciech Kilar's music for Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula film (I won't call it 'Bram Stoker's Dracula' because IMO it's not!). Also, most music by Jerry Goldsmith or Ennio Morricone is excellent. If you want very scary and nerve-wrecking music try 'The Thing' (we tried it during Call of Cthulhu session - scccaaarrrryyy! :) ) Come to think of it, some John William's music (Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones, etc.) might also be good for heroic fantasy... - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:50:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Big Party Problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 14 May 2000 15:05:12 Max Monas wrote: >hi everyone, > >Does anyone have clue what to do with a party that doesn't seem to get >along? It is not the players can get along, but the characters seem to have >lots of problems to get along. Some are very individual and just go off and >do something, while the rest of theb party was doing something else. > I'm sad to hear that you've run into this sort of thing already. I suppose most DMs have come across this at one time or another. There are ways to deal with it, but I'm afraid you won't like them, since I wouldn't either :( >This is what happened: > >In order to get into the thieves guild The Iron Ring they had to cut off a >piece of the hair of the Tormandros (the townmaster of Mirros), I stole >this idea from the description of Terrari, I think. Two of them decided to >have a look if there was a lot of security, but instead of just looking they >decided to try and get it, which didn't exactly worked. It got out of hand >and four guards were killed. Since this has already occured, I think you should point out that mistake the players *and* tell them what would have been smart to do. In Mirros, most people (and certainly the townmaster I presume) will hate the Iron Ring, so he might have helped them. Particularly when they had to do such a 'simple' thing. I mean, Tormandros probably wouldn't miss that piece of hair, and if they'd explained the situation to him, they could have staged the whole thing. If you agree that this could have worked, then I think you should tell your players so, since it shows them that not only are you open to such plans, but you actually encourage them. Hopefully, it will also make them see that killing everything in sight is trait only for stupid adventurers (there are always more skilled bounty hunters!) > Now this caused a lot of stress in the party >because one character is good, so he didn't exactly agreed with them killing >off three guards. they also killed a guard when he was tied and gagged, just >because he had asked one of the characters to leave in a rude way. Somehow, >a lot of the encounters end in battle, which I don't like very much. > Neither should the good PCs in the group, which would mean serious in-party trouble... :( > Now I have tought of a way to make them realise that not everythinh can >be solved by killing persons they encounter. Good. > During the battle one of the >PCs was captured and he said that he his wife and children were captured by >the Iron Ring and that he had to do this or his family would be killed. He >came up with a very long and complex story, so the guard decided to set him >free to look for his family (lucky dex check!!). This guard wasn't killed, >but he remembered the name of Iron Ring, since they invaded the Townmaster's >territory the guard, thinks this was an assassination attempt by the Iron >Ring. He tells this so the Iron Ring is targeted by the City Guards. The >Iron Ring is driven back from the Nest and the Old Quarter. The city guards >arrest a dwarf, who the PC couldn't get along with, so he decided to tell >everything about the PCs and in order to save himself he told some more >about the IR. Now the IR doesn't tolerate this and demands the PCs to go >after the dwarf. They are storngly adviced to do so, because otherwise they >are not only wanted by the City Guards for the assassination attempt on the >Townmaster but they will also be hunted by the IR. >Do you think this will make them realise that they have to be more careful >next time? Hopefully, but you'll have to determine it for yourself. If the PCs are eager to kill monsters and won't be able to stay away from a fight, then I'd advice you to get them out of the city as soon as possible! Otherwise you'll eventually have to punish them by the law (which is so uncool for a player) or kill them with more powerful NPCs... :( Sometimes players need to 'show off' their characters and demonstrate just how 'tough' they are, and just how many monsters they can kill. If this is the case, then put them in wilderness adventures where they can kill off orcs and other monsters without causing civilization too much trouble (but do put some tough good-aligned monsters in there to beat them up and teach them a lesson!) :) If they've gone into 'kill everything in sight' mode, then they won't (and shouldn't) survive the intrigue of city adventures - save your good plots for later when they can appreciate your hard and good work. Eventually, they'll become bored with killing x amounts of orcs and look for other kinds of adventures. > I just hope that they realise that everything they do has >consequences. The dwarf, who was arrested, has to leave the IR and even >Karameikos (maybe just Mirros), so I think he will definetly be thinking of >revenge on the PC, because he had quite a high position in the IR, I think >it will also be reasonable for the dwarf to blame them, because this fits >with his personality and character traits. >I thought about Immortal intervention (so an Immoral telling them to stop >killing and do something for them) but I thought I have to save this for >when this doesn't work out. I wouldn't put Immortals in there, because it suggests that you (the DM) are trying to 'rail-road' the campaign into what you want, and take it from me, there's nothing worse than a player having his character *forced* into doing something he doesn't want. You can 'rail-road', but don't do it with Immortals - it's too obvious! > >Could you inform what you would do in a situation described above? >I could use some help because I need the PCs to become a tight group in >order for them to go through some hard adventures. >Thanks. Regards, > First, I'd let them know what they did wrong (though they already know, I think) and then I'd tell them what an intelligent adventurer would have done (don't be afraid to be a little harsh to them - it's not your fault they didn't think! Just avoid sarcasm.) Next, I would probably have them arrested and then thrown out of the city. You'll have to do something about those who murdered soldiers. If there were no witnesses, they might get off with a large fine, but if they are identified as murderers then, yes, you should have them executed under the law! That's harsh I know, and I wouldn't like it either, but it's better to make a few examples now. Those are new characters anyway, and you shouldn't protect them from the consequences of their own stupidity. You could also let the murderers become part of the 'Secret Service' somebody mentioned, but you risk a split party and I wouldn't like it myself. If you don't want to kill those characters, throw them in jail for some time, have the players roll up new characters and play those while the old ones are in prison. That'll teach them to think. These are harsh suggestions, I know, but it's better than having your campaign fall apart now. If your players don't know it yet, you need to let them know that your campaign is consistent - it may have been created for their characters, but it doesn't mean that they don't have to follow the rules! - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:57:29 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Hollow World Alfheim Elves Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 14 May 2000 22:26:34 Caroletti wrote: > >A note: shouldn't the immortals have brought some of the Alfheim elves >in the >Hollow World >as well????? (snip) > I think at least Ilsundal >and >Mealiden could have >saved some elf from all the clans. Plus, there is probably a HW region >where the >elven clans >wiped off by the Shadowlord live...with the possibility of adventure of >some OW >elves >exploring the HW, and then suddenly finding a forest where a distant >relative >from the Geffronel >(I think it is one of the dead clans, isn't it??) lives...then spreads >the news >to Wendar...I don't know. >But I will definitely point out that an elven community has recently >been taken >to HW. > I think you have a point! We probably should have those elven nations in HW. The reason why they haven't been found yet is that elves like to keep to themselves, and they live some distance away from other lands. But now they can be found by HW explorers. Somebody (I forget who, sorry) said that the elves of Alfheim merely migrated elsewhere, rather than having their land and society destroyed. That may be true, but remember that typically the Immortals bring just one or a few small villages from a doomed society to HW. The society must then evolve from there. - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:25:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Magical Interrogation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-14 6:47:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Although choice of gaming system is irrelevant really, as we were talking about Alphatia. >> Not completely -- if use of the ESP spell is cited in DotE, then that citation would be based on the OD&D version of the spell in the event that differences in detail between the OD&D and AD&D versions really mattered. The Wish spell is another spell where the exact system used could matter, as some Alphatians use that spell to extend their lifespans -- something that would not work in AD&D. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:25:45 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Slaving: Where to Get Them. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-05-14 7:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << You get some in each from consigning criminals to slavery. Plus in cases where persons are fined, again in each, it might be that they are sold into debt-slavery if they don't have connections somehow (I.E. can't get someone to "vouch" for them and/or promise to pay the debt). >> Thyatis: Reduction to Slave status is an option (and probably the most commonly exercised option) for punishing criminals who are guilty of "greater charges" motivated by "chronic self-interest/unsociability". Since there is nothing to prevent it, we could also suppose that one might be enslaved for excessive debts. Alphatia: Indebtedness would not seem to be a source of slaves, as the Alphatian legal system is full of crimes for which the punishment includes confiscation of all property. Presumably, "all property" would be the upper limit of any fines, and non-criminal debts could result in loss of social status but not in enslavement. However, there are a number of crimes that specifically do lead to enslavement: "Confiscation (2)" is the sentence imposed on commoners for insolence to a Prince or higher, rape of a noble, or theft or fraud for an amount greater than 1000 GPs. The convict has all goods and wealth confiscated and is stripped to Slave status and given to the victim. For nobles, the corresponding punishment of "Confiscation (5)" is imposed for rape of a noble or treason. In addition to the punishments imposed for "Confiscation (2)", the noble is also permanently Feebleminded. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 02:48:00 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Magical Interrogation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Not completely -- if use of the ESP spell is cited in DotE, then that citation > would be based on the OD&D version of the spell in the event that differences > in detail between the OD&D and AD&D versions really mattered. The Wish > spell is another spell where the exact system used could matter, as some > Alphatians use that spell to extend their lifespans -- something that would > not work in AD&D. Fair enough, though in the event it seems both versions of ESP are the same. (I thought they were - I did play D&D as well you know!) (And a wish in AD&D can extend someones lifespan - by a factor of 10 if I recall (may be 100). But I digress... :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 04:53:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Slaving: Where to Get Them. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Where does either Empire get slaves? Again, here's a topic that's been > discussed some, but this is one where no solid conclusions have been made, > as far as I can recall. Both Empires probably try to have their slave > populations "self-sustain" as much as possible (have kids), but > historically that's usually been dificult IRL (slave populations rarely > reproduce at replacement levels, much less grow). How about breeder farms run by slightly twisted clerics of Valerias? With healing magic to prevent most losses incurrent in childbirth and infancy, this may be just enough to swing the balance to a slight increase per year in slave population. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:22:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: "Country Sites" question In-Reply-To: <391EE0A7.789B40@libero.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:21 PM 5/14/00 +0000, you wrote: > >Probably Demogorgon took adantage of the Herathian experimentations to >revive the long-dead Gator Men. Hey- that's a good idea! Best suggestion I've seen to explain the discrepancy! Good going! ----- Andrew "Cthulhudrew" Theisen Aspiring screenwriter, actor, and gadabout jsmill@wans.net "The greatest trick Doug Henning ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." - Keyser Soze ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.