========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:28:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Marco Fossati Subject: Re: The Church in Darokin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In fact I wasn't thinking about a new Immortal, but to a philosophy( from the priest's handbook) that is growing between the richer families of merchant in Darokin. This philosophy teaches that a man must always try to make the best possible affair during the trades. This mean that mechants can also use dirty tricks to reach the best profitable situation. Coins and profits are the things to gain at every cost, no matter how obstacles one could face during his affairs. Of course this is not a church yet. Just in some houses someone has received this teachings in dreams and now this 'prophet' are spreading these beliefs among their houses. The oddest thing is that the 'prophets' has spell that aids them during the tradings. What do you think? Cheers, Marco Fossati ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:30:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Re: The Church in Darokin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Havard wrote: > Darokin is a very liberalist country allowing all sorts of religions and > being filled with all sorts of people. Even though the principles of > wealth and power are prevalent in Daokins official politics and the > ideology of the mercheant class, I believe that most Darokinians have a > more traditional medieval attitude to religion. I have to say that I disagree. While I do agree that there may be no organized, central church as such, and that a great many imoortals may be worshipped (some in larger numbers than others, like Asterius), it seems to me that temples would be just as caught up in the "gold equals success" mentality of darokin. I have come around to thiking that the poor would not be excluded from worship at a temple, but the more money one is able to donate, the more the immortal "smiles upon you", and the more blessings etc the church is willing to offer you. In Darokin, success is measured in wealth. For a temple to consider itself successful it would have to amass a fair bit of wealth (not just in coin, but other assets). I imagine temples would try and outdo each other in displays of wealth in the form of statuary, icons, etc made from precious metals, or made by renowned artists. I picture the Darokinian temple as being austentatious, some even gaudy with displays of wealth -- Temples being one place that welathy merchants are able to show off their own wealth by making donations to the temple. I imagine the Darokinian temple looking more like a wealthy buddhist shrine than a christian church. Perhaps I will devote some time to working out what I think a Darokinian temple would be like, and what the religion is like. Erik ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:57:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Scaring your players MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Heh heh heh ... jackpot. MONTHS of work, with the single goal of scaring the crap out of my players paid off last night. I worked very hard making Nicodemus Majoh, the NPC mentor of the group's wizard character, a rounded but almost sure-to-be-beloved curmudgeonly old sort. The campaign's Web site has featured his symbol fairly prominently on page about the characters' home town of Midwood. And then, in our last session, I had him die in his sleep, to upset the status quo and make him unavailable to answer any questions ... Last night, the campaign finally got kicked into high gear. In a ruined (and allegedly haunted by the "ghost of a weeping elf maiden") keep, they were looking for a sword a thief had hidden there to keep it out of the hands of a bandit leader. So far, so good. And then they met Miaplacidus. From a rules standpoint, she was a threat, but not overwhelming. (Those of you with access to the Mystara MC, she's a lesser wyrd, with higher intelligence, as I'm considering the spirit that causes an elf maiden's body to rise as a wyrd picks up a little from each of its hosts, and as this one is on its second host, she's of average intelligence.) But I did my best to make her terribly unsettling. First off, she was in a room behind a (ajar) door clearly until-recently sealed with Nicodemus' sign. And then she calls "Nicodemus?" when she hears the PCs' wizard talking. Perhaps a little oddly, I was focussing on how "The Blair Witch Project" made me feel while portraying her -- there's no scary monster in TBWP, but there's an atmosphere that the protagonists are SCREWED, that the supernatural evil will kill them and it'll be horrible and it'll be inevitable. And that's what I imparted to my players. I described Mia as a beautiful woman -- they'd never met an elf before, and I think some of the players didn't pick up that she was one -- with a tear-streaked face who's confused as to how Nicodemus could be dead. I kept focussing on how beautiful and sad she was, all the while dropping in other weird bits. Statues in the room she was in had their heads knocked off (the players didn't look, but they were statues portraying the three patron Immortals of the characters' church). The sword they were looking for was sticking out of the chest of a goblin, whose body was also burning and providing the light for the room. The players had no idea how to deal with her, although they were clearly off-balance. Then she told them to close the door to the room, which would seal them inside with her. When they hesitated, I made the first of several personality shifts. "CLOSE THE FUCKING DOOR!" Heh. It was a nice moment. Dreading what would happen when they did, they closed the door anyway. They regretted it instantly, and when one player character voiced his opinion that he should leave, Mia paused in asking about what happened with Nicodemus, who she apparently blamed for something, to announce "YOU OPEN THAT DOOR AND I WILL KILL YOU ALL." This wasn't what the characters wanted to hear. They started edging away and then ran for it. Two of them closed the door once they got out, hoping she couldn't leave the room. They didn't bar the door or anything, though, and she walked out, carrying the sword. For some reason, several of the characters tried talking to her again. She asked one character for a kiss, and promised she'd run him through afterwards, and it would be better than burning alive ... which she then calmly described in great detail. No one offered her a kiss. The group's wizard pulled a torch off the ground and threatened her with it, trying to keep her at bay. When he explained they were there for the sword, trying to keep it out of the wrong hands, she turned and casually shoved it through the cleric, leaving it sticking out of him. The group's ranger fired an arrow at her, which passed through harmlessly ... and then he fled the dungeon in a panic. I had to keep myself from roaring with laughter. My players have all been away from RPGs for several years, but all are veteran roleplayers and amateur writers, and certainly should know, at some level, that they're going to be up against low level monsters they can presumably beat (with effort in some cases). But it was important to me in this campaign that the mystical and supernatural is NOT familiar to them yet. (Like I said, they haven't even met an elf yet.) And to help that along, I make sure to describe each encounter with it in detail, never using names (it's not "she looks like a Callarii elf," it's "she has inhumanly delicate features, pale and shimmery") and making them a bit uneasy even when it's not dangerous. ... of course, the ranger fled the dungeon (so sue me, I wanted to put a dungeon in at the beginning of the campaign, just to have that as part of their playing experience) and right smack into the group of orc bandits they were trying to keep the sword away from. That's our next session's thorny problem. As for what Mia was doing down there, and her connection to Nicodemus, now that she's dead (or, actually, discorporated again ... the next elf maiden to die in the ruins will be the new host for the wyrd) and so is Nicodemus, the players will have a hard time finding out what's going on, since they didn't explore the ruins adequately to find a certain journal tucked into a library. Not that certain NPCs won't be showing up in the next few weeks, certain that the players know more than they do, and have to be shut up permanently. This is gonna be fun. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:38:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Scaring your players In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000815085723.007b0820@10.1.1.1>; from lby3@LBY3.COM on Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 08:57:23AM -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 08:57:23AM -0700, Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Heh heh heh ... jackpot. > This is gonna be fun. Hee hee. That sounds very cool, thanks for posting! gordon, stealing some ideas :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:43:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_f4.1db724b.26cacd29_boundary" --part1_f4.1db724b.26cacd29_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He he, oops. Accidentally sent the email just to DM, and not the entire list. That's what I get for not paying attention to what I'm doing. --part1_f4.1db724b.26cacd29_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Deldain@aol.com Full-name: Deldain Message-ID: <6e.222e151.26caccc8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:41:44 EDT Subject: Re: Review -The new Player's Handbook To: mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 108 In a message dated 8/14/00 1:48:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << Thanks Deldain! This was exactly was I was hoping for. Please keep sending this kind of reviews as u keep on reading the book. :) >> You're quite welcome. Speaking of the review...I'm sorry to be so behind on getting the last part posted to the list, but I've been really busy the last three days. However, among the chaos of the weekend, I got to run my first 3e game saturday night. Set in the Principalities of Glantri (since I'm using Mystara as my 'default' world instead of Greyhawk). The plot focused on a small town plagued by a vampire. After being attacked some undead minions of the vamp, the party find and rescue a very stupid but very helpful goblin named Ginlimj. After leading them into a trap filled, abandoned castle, Ginlimj reveals himself to be the vampire to a very shocked party. The party consisted of a wise-cracking gnome ranger, an elven druid, a human monk, and a human wizard. Oh, and a NPC halfling sorcerer (who claims he is a Progeny.) It was interesting to see how the players tried to 'play' with the rules and create truly unique characters. Taking interesting skills and odd feats, and yet justifying them all through their character's backgrounds. Of course though, some things were a little rough. Mainly combat to be exact. Considering none of us had ever ran using the new system, it got a little more bogged down than I'm use to dealing with. Combat seemed to drag on and on, which lead me to my usual 'ditch the dice and describe what happens' combat scenes until we're all more familiar with the rules. All in all it was a great session. The players really had fun getting into their roles, I enjoyed taking advantage of the new rules ("What do you mean the vampire has improved initiative too!" ;), and for all of us it was like playing the game for the first time all over again. 3e has definately been worth the wait. I should note I can't take credit for the idea of the goblin vampire, I have to give that one to Robert Wiese who does the Fight Club section of the D&D homepage, which is where I found the very entertaining goblin lord of darkness. If you haven't had a chance to check out the new stuff at the D&D homepage (wizards.com/dnd/welcomex.asp) the do so. It's full of great stuff such as the Fight Club (which introduces strange, new NPCs to throw into your games), Map-a-Week (a free map every thursday!), and so on. I'm glad WotC is devoting so much effort to the new edition. Only time will tell if they're willing to keep up this commitment to the fans, but this is a good sign if anything. Oh, and I promise I'll have the rest of the PHB review up this afternoon, so long as I don't get tricked into running another gaming session. ;) -Deldain --part1_f4.1db724b.26cacd29_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:09:28 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think the goblin vampire is just fine, considering what King Thar is... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lord Deldain" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 11:43 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook > > He he, oops. Accidentally sent the email just to DM, and not the entire list. > That's what I get for not paying attention to what I'm doing. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:00:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: [ADMIN] Forthcoming announcment by Jenn (re: Tome of Mystara) Loyal Mystarans, My next post to you as benevolent List Orc will be a forwarded message from Jennifer Guerra concerning the deadline for submissions to the next edition of the Tome of Mystara. Please stay tuned. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:01:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: [ADMIN] Tome of Mystara submissions ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Tome of Mystara submissions Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:25:53 -0400 > This is a reminder that the submission deadline for Tome of Mystara #5 > (first anniversary issue) is 1 September 2000. > > Get your submission or query in now, to mystaratome@yahoo.com or > valerya@webtv.net. > > All letters, poll or contest voting, and suggestions for future articles > should also be submitted by this date. > > We look forward to reading your submission! > > > Jennifer Guerra > Editor, Tome of Mystara e-Zine > http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ > > -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:24:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook In-Reply-To: <002501c006db$923dc4e0$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:09 08/15/2000 -0500, George Hrabovsky wrote: >I think the goblin vampire is just fine, considering what King Thar is... (blink, blink) OK, I haven't been able to secure "Orcs of Thar" (or WotI, or "Champions of Mystara," or ...) on eBay, so clue me in. What IS Thar? According to JA he's just, IIRC, a big orc. (Of course, considering how goofy the 2E AD&D take on Kol is, I don't know if I can trust that book ... I do know I'm turning Kol back into a kobold sorcerer or sorcerer/wizard/fighter in 3E). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:13:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Scaring your players MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Excellent! ----- Original Message ----- From: Beau Yarbrough To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 11:57 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Scaring your players > Heh heh heh ... jackpot ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:19:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Thar's secret MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just happen to have been using Gaz10 for reference last night, so I checked (cause I didn't know either). Thar is a . . . Nosferatu!! He was infected after he raided the Wiz-prince of Boldavia in Glantri (who is one) and the guy got sort of mad when the orcs stole his spell book. So old robes & fangs tracks down the orc king & treats him to a vampiric double dip and ta-da, orc-nosferatu! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:51:46 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: The Church in Darokin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Beau wrote: << I'm not sure paying admission works for me, but one could take the worst historic excesses of the Catholic chuches and televangelists and apply them to Darokin quite nicely, I think.>> I find this idea interesting enough, and I agree with Beau. I don't think Darokinian churches tithe the visitors (we should also bear in mind that Darokin makes great works of charity, as explained in GAZ11, so this doesn't strike me as charitable making a poor have to pay in order to enter a temple). It is obvious though, that the Church requires tithes for performing ceremonies like marriages, funerals, etc. as well as casting spells on faithful. However I do see possible for Darokinian priests selling the forgiveness of the Gods to those merchants unable to do penance (because of lack of time or will) and priests or abbots owning LARGE estates, willing gifts of wealthy merchants to buy a place in Asterius's Halls. :) I haven't written this in my article about the Church of Darokin, but everyone's allowed to speculate on this dark side of the church (I admit I have portrayed only the good sides.. sorry, I love Darokin so I'm biased!) :) Also Marco Fossati wrote: <> mmmh.. well, I'm no fan of FR and so forgive me for not knowing this Waukeen. However, I think Asterius does fit that niche being the God of Money and Trade, so I don't understand what's your first point. As for the second, I simply chose to base the Church of Darokin upon integration rather than gold, because Darokin's cultural melting pot and it needed a unifying spiritual force in the Church founder's ideals. It is possible however that after his death the accent on money and lucre will surely be marked, this is entirely up to you. I have tried to give u only the basic structure, preachings and Immortals. :) Oh, btw, I have revised my article and I intended to put it on my site for next month, but since we're here, I'll post it here as well. Basically I've added some new Immortals cause I felt they could be in tune with Darokin's national spirit. I'll see if I can add something about the money oriented practices when I update and upload it on my site. Thanks for the comments, btw! THE CHURCH OF DAROKIN by Marco Dalmonte Pantheon of the Church Asterius (Head): Patron of Money, Trade and Communications Koryis: Patron of Peace and Prosperity Ixion: Patron of Justice and Honesty The Twelve Watchers: Patrons of Crafts and Work Valerias: Patroness of Love and Charity Khoronus: Patron of Time, Wisdom and Death Diulanna: Patroness of Will and Courage General Description of the Church Darokin is "a land of leftovers" and the Church of Darokin reflects this mishmash of cultures and faiths. The Immortals worshipped by the church are all in friendly terms among them and above all some of them have been largely followed in Darokin long before the foundation of the Church itself, so they are well liked by the darokinians. Asterius is the unchallenged Head of the Pantheon, since he's always been the most revered deity in Darokin (as patron of Trade and Communications, the basis of the darokinian society). The First Patriarch who founded the Church back in AC 930 is himself a devout priest of Asterius: he realized that to unite the darokinians from the religious point of view he would have needed a strong religious figure to take as an example, and Asterius the Trader was the best candidate. However, he also understood that the Church of Darokin should have been a polytheistic cult in order to incarnate the real spirit of the nation, a country based on the multiracial integration. This way he also added to the pantheon the other Immortals who best embodied the ideals of Darokin: freedom, honesty, sacrifice and equality. Darokin is the most advanced, democratic and liberal state in the Known World (and possibly on Mystara). Almost every church has at least one "mission" in Darokin's territory, (mostly) peacefully competing and coexisting. Usually there are clerics from different orders in towns large enough to support several clerics. They generally engage in petty competition, but they share the same general goals of prosperity and protection for the villages. The Church of Darokin embodies the epythet of the "typical darokinian church", and draws many traditions from the other faiths affiliated to it. But this doesn't mean that the Church of Darokin worships ALL of these Immortals (it would not last much if it put side to side a cleric of Koryis and one of Thor, for example). The Church of Darokin worships those immortals that most embodies the "spirit of the nation", a spirit of freedom, sacrifice, equality and endurance against the adversities. Asterius, Ixion, Koryis, the Twelve Watchers and Valerias are the ones that fit this role. As a final note, it must be said that the Church of Darokin is not the most powerful church of the Old World, nor it is much widespread (aside from Darokin itself), mainly because it is a church founded FOR the Darokinians. It is surely the most important in the Republic, however the Church of Darokin is NOT the official state religion, because Darokin has no state religion whatsoever: this way nobody gets offended or can be punished for what is normally believed a very personal matter. The Church respects the right to worship other faiths, but it constantly tries to "direct people on the right way" as much as the other cults do. However, it will never issue a holy crusade against a nation or a faith just because it goes against the Church's precepts, unless it threatens directly Darokin or the very existence of the Church of Darokin. The common vestment of the cleric of the Church is a besant tunic with a golden circle on the upper torso. Each cleric uses the holy symbol of its deity. History of the Church The Church of Darokin is a young church much like that of Karameikos. It dates back to the X century and was founded in AC 930 by father Simon Stone, a priest of Asterius, who is now its High Patriarch. The different Immortals worshipped by the Church became popular in Darokin in different periods. The most ancient one is obviously Asterius, whose faith dates back to the I century AC, when the first merchants began to prosper and to grow in power under the protection of the elves and of the Eastwind dinasty. Khoronus was known as the main Immortal revered by the Eastwind Kings during their reign, and its cult spread wide in the Streel Valley during the I and II century, even though it later lost importance when the Eastwind dinasty ended and the merchants became more prominent. Valerias is the worldwide Patroness of Love and she was already worshipped in Darokin at the same time Asterius was, probably brought there by some Thyatian priests. The Twelve Watchers were already known and worshipped in Darokin by all the workers (much licke Asterius) during the Attleson dinasty, while Koryis' faith was first introduced in Darokin by fleeing Alphatians (Koryis is an Alphatian deity in origin) in the IX century AC (after the Ylari kicked them off the Alayisian Basin) and later by Ochalean priests who came to Darokin at the beginning of the X century. Similarly, Ixion's faith was one of the last additions, brought to Darokin by Alphatians (IX century), Ethengarians (as Tubak, in the II century) and fleeing Ispans who chose to settle in Darokin instead of going to the Savage Coast at the beginning of AC 900. Diulanna's faith was the last addition to the pantheon, brought to Darokin in the X century by Thyatian immigrants coming from the Hinterlands who settled in the forested borderlands along the Alfheim border. The High Patriarch of the Church is an old wizened man in his eighties named Simon Stone, who happens to be also the founder of the Church. He is a cleric of Asterius who felt the need to unify the faiths of his beloved land to make the citizens feel more akin and closer to each other and to destroy any possible cultural and ethnic barrier still present in Darokin after the Great Merger. He founded the Church at the age of 30 and has subsequently assumed many potions of Longevity in his youth to fight against the passing of time only for one reason: to accomplish his dream. After the Church of Darokin has affirmed itself as the most prominent in Darokin, he stopped drinking potions and continued to age normally. He is now 83 (real age 115) and has already chosen his successor, a promising cleric of the Twelve Watchers in his thirties. The current patriarch will surely die before AC 1020. Organization of the Church The Church is ruled by its High Patriarch (currently Simon Stone, C36 of Asterius), who is helped by a Council of Archbishops (clerics of all the Immortals worshipped) representing all the regions of Darokin (very similar to Darokin political government). The High Patriarch also has a special advisor called Holy Legate (currently Lino Volterra, C14 of the Twelve Watchers) that helps him in the burocratic affaires and examining diplomatical and religious issues presented weekly by the other priests. The Holy Legate is personally chosen by the High Patriarch among his more experienced clerics (of level 10th or higher) and he is destined to become the new High Patriarch at the death of the current one. There are only three exceptions to this rule: 1. If the Holy Legate dies before the succession. In this case, if the High Patriarch is still alive, he chooses a substitute. Otherwise if he's dead already, the Council of Archbishops votes to elect the new High Patriarch (there must be a majority of two thirds of the voting members to elect the Patriarch). 2. If the High Patriarch decides he is not worthy anymore to succeed him. In this case he simply chooses another successor and has the right to abstain from giving any reasons for his decision. 3. If at the death of the High Patriarch the Council of Archbishops decides (with a majority of two thirds as explained above) the Holy Legate is not worthy of the position. In this case however, the Council MUST explain the reasons for this decision and the voting must be based on the reasons and proofs put forward by the detractors of the Holy Legate (that's to say: no proofs of his faults, no motion against him can be passed). There is one Archbishop for each major city of the Republic (with a population of 10,000 or more) for a total of seven Archbishops in the Council (the Archbishop of Darokin City is the High Patriarch himself who also lives there). The Archbishops administrate the religious and commercial business of the Archdiocese they represent, which is made up of smaller Bishophrics each one administered by a Bishop. The Archbishops have also the power to impeach the election of a new High Patriarch and to issue new proclamations or religious laws (majority of two thirds of the voting members needed), which must then be approved also by the Patriarch (he has the power to veto anything). The Archbishops are elected among the Bishops of a specific Archdiocese by all the other Bishops and Archbishops: the ones that obtains the most votes wins the title. The Archbishop remains in charge until his death or until he is expelled by the Council or by the High Patriarch for some strong reason (in this case even the Patriarch needs a reason to exhautorate an Archbishop). The Archbishop must be at least 9th level in power to be elected. There is one Bishop for each Heartland inhabited by darokinians, for a total of 33 Bishops. Each one administrates the religious and commercial business of the Bishophric he's in charge of and must always answer to his direct superior, the Archbishop of the Archdiocese his Bishophric belongs to. The Bishops have the power to ordain Priests and to publicly bohicot those firms or individuals that go against the preachings of the Church and that threaten it or Darokin. For stronger and legal actions they must first ask permission to the Archbishop and then sue the offender legally (using Diplomats or Judges). The Bishops are chosen by the Archbishop that rules the bishophric they belong to among available the Priests of level 7th or higher. The Bishops remain in charge until they die or they are promoted to Archbishop or they are expelled from the clergy (see above). To become a Bishop a cleric must have reached at least 7th level and there must be a vacant charge, of course. There is usually one (or more) Priest(s) for each village (with a population of 300 or higher) in Darokin, and each Priest has one or more Acolytes that help him. The Priest attends the ordinary adn daily duties of the common cleric: he visits the followers to help them, he preaches every day during the holy mass to strengthen the faith of his parishioners, he attends the sick ones and offers solace to those who ask for it. He is also the spokesman of the common people when dealing with the hieararchy of the Church and can present petitions of any kind or any other request to his superiors (the Bishop or Archbishop -even though some Bishops don't particularly like to be stepped over). The Priest can enlist new Acolytes inside the order and teach them the basis of the faith in order to let them become priests in the future. Finally, he is the first defender of the village and of the Republic and must always show this to other people with his actions. The Priests are automatically ordained by their Bishop when they reach 3rd level and they are usually given the duty to found a new parish. If no villages are big enough to become a parish inside the Bishopric, then the Priest is allowed to move to another Bishopric or Archdiocese (thus changing the superiors he must answer to) or to become a missionary in another country or to stay within an already existing parish to help its Priest(s). No more than four priests are allowed to live in a single parish, though. A cleric must reach the 3rd level to be a Priest. Finally, on the lowest step of the ladder of the clergy there are the Acolytes, the novices who want to become priests of the Church and study with a priest to obtain the required experience. They have no powers basically and must always obey the priests, helping him in his businesses and in turn he teaches them the precepts of the faith and the way to become a good cleric. The Acolytes must petition a Priest to enter the church and the priest has the right to choose or reject the applicants. A priest cannot have more than five acolytes with him. The Acolytes are always cleric of 1st or 2nd level and must not leave the priest until they reach 3rd level and are ordained Priest of the Church of Darokin. If they do go away they cannot enter the Church anymore, but this doesn't mean they will loose the clerical powers they've gained, provided they continue to worship and work for the Immortal they've chosen. Wandering Priests of the Church The Church of Darokin allows the existence of wandering priests, clerics that do not stay within a specific parish or Archdiocese but roam around the world trying to spread their beliefs. It tolerates them but do not really "encourages" them to take this road, because they feel that the priests should better stay and work for the welfare of Darokin. However the clergy know that it is its duty to spread the word of their Immortals, and for this only reason it permits the clerics who ask for it to go around the world in what is commonly referred as "cathechistic mission". The wandering priests (or Missionaries) now answer directly to their Archbishop and they must contact him every 5 years to keep him informed of their progresses and successes. If however the Archbishop is not satisfied or feels the need to call the Missionary at home for a special job, he can do it and the priest must answer immediately or be later trailed inside the Church hierarchy for insubordination. The Wandering Priests (Missionaries) must have reached at least 3rd level to leave their parish. Ethics of the Church The Head of the Church Pantheon is Asterius, and the Ring of Darokin is open to every Immortal who has a particular love for that country (the Twelve Watchers are only Initiate but they/he is a distinguished member as his other Hierarch collegues). The Church exists to help Darokinians (or anyone else) live together in spite of the differences existing between them. The Church teaches to tolerate others, to work for the community and the welfare of the state and to behave honestly, because only the honest and trustworthy people will be rewarded both in this life and in the afterlife. The Church also operates many hostels for the beggars and the poor people unable to find a work (few in Darokin, so it's an easy job). The Afterlife The Church of Darokin teaches his followers to worship all the Immortal Patrons, and each one has a heaven for the souls to go in the afterlife. However, since nobody can be perfect and worship equally all immortals as a real saint (like High Patriarch Simon Stone), each believer will go to the heaven he mostly deserved basing on his actions in this life (for example: if he helped mantain or restore peace, he could go to Koryis', Valerias' or Asterius' heaven -Asterius is patron of communication and this is the basis for every peace talk). This is the list of the heavens: Asterius (Patron of Trade and Communication): Crystal Halls Koryis (Patron of Peace and Prosperity): Fields of Dreams Ixion (Patron of Justice and Honesty): Bright Kingdom The Twelve Watchers (Patrons of Crafts and Work): City of Perfection Valerias (Patroness of Love and Charity): Palace of Roses Khoronus (Patron of Time, Wisdom and Death): Vale of Eternity Diulanna (Patron of Will and Courage): Hall of the Radiant Heart But what happens to those who don't live up to the beliefs of the faith? The Church of Darokin condemns more the false believers than the non-believers: in fact, the first ones have sworn to follow and to worship the Immortals but they haven't done it at all, whereas the second ones may not follow the immortals' ways, but at least they never pretended to. So there will be punishment for those who trespass against immortal laws, be them believers or non-believers. Among non-believers, those who acted following the Church principles even without worshipping Immortals will be given a second chance to recognize their error and to bow to the greater powers: they will be reborn on this land until they swear fealty to one immortal. Believers will be given another chance to prove themselves worthy of the heavens and will be reborn on the world (Outer Plane) where the heavens exist: there they will have to overcome adversities and find their way to the Immortal Heaven before the end of their life, or they will be condemned to wander forever outside of the heaven, being allowed to see what they lost but not to enter. They will then live in a state of non-life, which will be somewhat between life and undeath, free to act as they will until the time will come when the Immortal will forgive them all and open the doors of his heaven to these lost souls. Non-believers will instead be sent to Limbo, where they will linger forever trying to escape the fiends and demoniac beings that prowl that desolated world, without hope for a better tomorrow. NOTE 1: According to Bruce Heard's articles on Dragon, Limbo is where people not faithful to their beliefs go. The Church of Darokin identifies this place with the Hell of non-believers because it's populated by those who didn't follow their moral and ethic beliefs and who are now condemned to live as independent people, detached from the deities and from each other. There could be no worse place for a church that preaches communion, peace and friendliness among people. To the Church of Darokin Limbo is basically a big representation of the real world clouded in a perpetual dusk by a cap of dust. The inhabitants cannot see each other clearly, thus they cannot distinguish clearly between other souls and demoniac spirits that haunts that wasteland, and so they live in constant fear. NOTE 2: of course, what happens to non-believers is highly debatable, since this cathegory comprises all the atheists (and there are many). This is just what the clerics think, not necessarily what really happens. As for other religions, the Church of Darokin tolerates them as long as they don't preach beliefs or an ethic code that go against the church principles. Resurrection and Undead According to the Church of Darokin beliefs, real followers have only one chance in life to prove they're worthy of the Immortals' reward (heaven). Thus the priests of the Church are forbidden to Raise or Resurrect any dead believer: after all, they have already been judged by the Immortals once they died, and the priests cannot oppose the immortals' will in any way. Any priest discovered to perform such a ritual will be expelled immediately from the Church. However, the priests are not forbidden to Raise non-believers, especially because they will then have the chance to convert the non-believer and to make him see the true faith. They will usually try to know the way the non-believer acted in his life and the way he died, and only after evaluating the pros and cons he will judge if there can still be hope for his soul or not. This way, about a week will usually pass before a priest of the Church of Darokin decides whether to raise a person or not. For the same reason, the enemy of the Church is the Undead race. The priests of Ixion and Khoronus in particular fight a personal crusade to eradicate this plague from the face of the world, considering undead no more than souls that have been negated their final judgment and who defy the natural laws of the universe. It is their duty to put these restless dead to sleep once and for all, both for their sake and for the livings'. The priests of the Church refuse to Animate or Speak with the Dead because it is considered immoral and unclean to meddle with the afterlife. The followers respect and pay tribute to their beloved dead ones, but they must never try to communicate with them nor to bring them to life again, because this way they will negate them what the Immortals have arranged for them. For these reasons, the priests that belong to the Church of Darokin have not access to the spells Speak with the Dead and Animate Dead, getting instead the use of Protection from Poison (3rd level Druids' spell) and Control Temperature 10' radius (4th level Druids' spell). DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:02:25 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ryan S. Dancey, in his latest interview for WotC site: "During 1999, I would meet weekly with the design team to review progress and discuss any open issues. I would say that my personal contributions to the effort were in asking that we use Greyhawk as the default world and that we include a default pantheon of gods. I wouldn't want to try to claim sole credit for either development; many people within the organization supported those ideas to a greater or lesser extent." So we can see now who has credit for the final decision of reviving Greyhawk as the core world of 3rd Ed. Still Talk about "mass fans support" behind the decision? TSK! Well, in this case I think it only needed ONE fan to revive Greyhawk... only one fan in the right position within WotC. ;p Also: " Many of my specific ideas have found fruitful ground outside the core books. The D&D Gazetteer, which provides a map and a brief overview of Oerth, is a product that is near and dear to my heart. " No mention here of the Mystara D&D Gazetteers as source of inspiration, as if the idea came out of nowhere, whereas some paragraphs above he explicitely quotes all of Gygax's works as first sources of inspirations for D&D. Again, TSK! You can find the whole interview at: http://wizards.com/dnd/3E_intvw_RyanD.asp DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:22:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mike Harvey Subject: FYI, Rules Cyclopedia avail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wil Hutton (sinner@keyway.net) wrote: > > Get a hold of the Rules Cyclopedia. I have one...willing to let it go > cheap, too. > > -- > "I made a god out of blood, not superiority...I killed the king of deceit, > now I sleep in anarchy..." - Anthem of the Fallen aka "Anarchy"/KMFDM > The Atomic Rumpus Room: Tribe 8, Jovian Chronicles, Mekton Zeta, PikaDance > and more! http://www.keyway.net/~sinner/ > > "aurickh" wrote in message > news:%STl5.9634$IH.373236@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > > Just an opinion, but does anyone else really miss playing by the Basic and > > Expert rules? Back in the days when it was all about getting together > with > > cool people, bashing a few orc skulls, and munchie runs to the 7 Eleven. > > > > Anyhoo.. I am thinking about going back, WAY back, and starting a game > using > > those rules. Thoughts, opinions? > > > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:29:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/15/00 6:20:12 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT writes: << No mention here of the Mystara D&D Gazetteers as source of inspiration, as if the idea came out of nowhere, whereas some paragraphs above he explicitely quotes all of Gygax's works as first sources of inspirations for D&D. Again, TSK! >> Actually, the Greyhawk Gazetteer is almost a clone of the ORIGINAL Greyhawk Gazetteer that predated the Mystara Gazetteers by seven years; it is simply updated to include the Greyhawk Wars and other developments from 576 CY to 589 CY. The original World of Greyhawk Gazetteer was published in 1980, while the first Known World Gazetteer (GAZ1: The Grand Duchy of Karameikos) was published in 1987. The Greyhawk Gazetteer then, as now, was an overview of the entire Flanaess, not a specific development of a nation or region as are the Known World Gazetteers. James A. Mishler Magister Mystaros Mystara Lives! Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:49:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: EARL MARSHALL Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Aaah Greyhawk... or as I call it ultra-boring generic land. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:03:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Scaring your players In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000815085723.007b0820@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's always kind of fun scaring your players. I remember once when I was running a couple of friends through a modified "Keep on the Borderlands". The monsters from the keep (which I placed in the mountains north of Threshold) were running rampant in the Black Peaks. The PCs were in Armstead, hoping to warn the Darokinians of a possible attack, when the night of the full moon came. A haunting melody played across the night sky as dozens of goblins, bugbears, and wolves came pouring out of the hills (sent into a maddened frenzy by the power of the Horn of Herne, an artifact that the forces of evil were trying to recover from the Caves of Chaos). The PCs were standing their ground with the town guard, and thinking "They're just goblins." One of my players- I think he's still lurking here on the list somewhere (Hey, Ed!) was playing a mystic named Myrkul. He took a swing at a goblin, getting a critical hit, and scoring maximum damage- something on the order of 10-12 hit points. Then I tell him- "The goblin just grins back at you". The expression on his face was priceless. Ah, that was a good time... scared my guys somewhat to see these frenzied half hit-die creatures taking a serious beating and coming back for more... :) Sounds like you run a pretty interesting game, Beau. If you're ever in need of more players, I'm not too far away here in Long Beach. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 02:48:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Aaah Greyhawk... or as I call it ultra-boring generic > land. > Would you prefer going back to the days when the Forgetit Realms of Munchkindom were the "official" base campaign world? Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:48:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/15/00 10:09:34 PM US Eastern Standard Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: << Would you prefer going back to the days when the Forgetit Realms of Munchkindom were the "official" base campaign world? >> Well, get ready for this - the Forgotten Realms, though not the "default" setting for the new Dungeons & Dragons, will get their own book in 2001, a tome far more completist than the simple Gazetteer of Greyhawk. It will be 320 pages (the first print of the 3E D&D PHB is only 304 with the special section), averaging some 900 words per page (yes, that's over 250,000 words!). Here's a rundown of what it will include according to an article on Eric Noah's Unofficial 3E Webpage: "320 pages, full color, dense text (we over-wrote), information on lands that have never been covered before, new PC races, 53 new feats, 15 new prestige classes, 34 new domains, domain info on all of the living deities from the Faiths & Avatars trilogy.... All I can say is, when you get the book in your hands, you'll feel the price is justified. Did I also mention that the word count per page for the 1993 set was only about 650 words per page, where this book is going to run at least 900? So it's more like 440 pages (in page-equivalents of the 1993 set), not 320." You can find out more on the tome at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/ Note that it will retail for $39.95, rather higher than the PHB, DMG and MM, which are each at the introductory price of $19.95 (they will probably go up to $24.95 to $34.95 in the next major print run, though). All I can think of is what this list could do with that kind of a book... think about it! 320 pages dedicated to 3E Mystara! Wow! James A. Mishler Magister Mystaros Mystara Lives! Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:37:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:48 8/16/00 EDT, Magister Mystaros wrote: >All I can think of is what this list could do with that kind of a book... >think about it! 320 pages dedicated to 3E Mystara! Wow! Hmmm. I dunno. Twenty pages for non-Shires Mystara seems a bit slim. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:57:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Another Update on mystara.com.bi !!!! In-Reply-To: <200008051338.JAA04928@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Geoff Gander wrote: > > >We also explored the Sea of Dread in the same manner. The players would > >board ship and then set out into uncharted waters around Ierendi and > >Minrothad, landing on islands with pirate camps or forgotten ruins, fought > >sea monsters on the open ocean, and weathered storms. Sometimes they'd head > >off into the open sea by accident and have to turn around and head home. > > I prefer hexes too, if only for the nostalgia. My players know that their > characters would not have such an accurate view of the land, just as their > characters' maps of dungeons and monster-infested sewers would not be > nearly as neat as their (the players') own, but they do find it useful. > Speaking of your own DMing, Mike, what sort of ruins did you place around > Ierendi/Minrothad? Sorry I never got back to you. That was a long time ago. Back then I treated the islands as having a mild temperate climate. The islands were mountainous and thickly forested, but not tropical in nature. I had a concept of a European style kingdom of traders, privateers, and fishermen. All the major towns were located along the coasts; I don't remember too much about them except that they were built of cut stone and had tile roofs. Minrothad was a prosperous kingom or mariners, the Known World equivalent of the Genoese or the Dutch. Probably pretty similar to the gazetteer. These islands were well populated and I never did anything with ruins there. Ierendi was more wild, with the island interiors little-explored. Several of the islands had foggy mountain plateaus containing ruins of some ancient civilization. I never really defined it, although I had degenerate white apes inhabiting some of them (yeah, I read lots of Conan in those days). I had a vague idea of an ancient kingdom that had fallen long ago, and the islands were only recently re-settled. The islands also had lots of bluffs and hidden coves, pirate strongholds (often in seaside caves), and the towers of reclusive wizards. Lots of sea monsters too. I can't really think of a good real or fictional analogue though, except maybe the Earthsea stories, or perhaps the French Alps (if that makes any sense). Anyway, I think I'm going to go with this idea for my campaign. Nobody has gone to Ierendi yet, so it is still undefined. I'll probably redo the map (same geography, different names) and write up my own alternate gazetteer. I'm thinking that the lost civilization was of the Malpheggi lizard men. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:37:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: DMing is Like Dealing Drugs In-Reply-To: <20039364.966002253260.JavaMail.imail@prickles> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I posted info about this a couple of years ago, but I thought I'd give it another mention given Andy's question of starting campaigns. Want to start your campaign with a bang? Consider burning Kelvin (in Karameikos) to a crisp! I once started a campaign with a Dungeon Magazine adventure, "A Hot Day in L'trel," (Issue #44) modified for use in Mystara. The premise is that one day in Kelvin, there is the sound of great explosions, and suddenly a great rain of fire (hehe, not THE Great Rain of Fire) pelts the city of Kelvin, quickly burning away large portions of it and triggering a host of crises. The PCs (who need never have met) are all in the town for one reason or another, and are brought together when they volunteer to join a militia for dealing with the disaster and maintaining order in exchange for food and lodging (in very short supply given what just happened). They have a variety of tasks to perform, from stopping looters, slavers, and fire-cultists bent on burning the rest of the city down, to firefighting and helping homeless refugees, and of course, finding out what happened! It's a wonderful adventure that defies cliches. The various encounters are fresh and exciting, with unusual tasks, and an unusual "foe"-- a natural(?) disaster. Why Kelvin? First, Kelvin has approximately the same population as L'trel, so no glaring conversion problems there. Next, as we know, magic-user magic is outlawed in Kelvin. One of the great suspicions is that magic is responsible for the disaster, and in fact it was the result of a botched experiment conducted by a now-obliterated mage living just outside the city, where the law doesn't apply. As the magical nature of the disaster begins to reveal itself, Baron Kelvin could react with an inquisition against magic-users and enact new draconic laws against them, which is fun. Also, one of the components of the adventure as published is opportunistic slaving raids, where slavers kidnap homeless victims of the fire disaster. Can you say Iron Ring? Last but not least, after things are brought under control, many parts of Kelvin will need to be demolished and rebuilt. You might recall the adventure hook in GAZ1 where construction in Kelvin leads to the surprise unearthing of the ancient Traldar city of Lavv. Well, here's a great way to have that unearthing take place. And the last thing Baron Kelvin needs just after recovering from the demolition of most of the city is to be swamped by pilgrims of the Church of Traladara! So you get a major campaign event (extra tasty crispy!), unorthodox challenges (fire-fighting!), detective work (who toasted Kelvin?), campaign-long enemies (the Iron Ring), psychotic freaks (fire cultists), religious friction (Lavv pilgrims), tyranny (martial law, "nooooobody expects the Kelvinian inquisition!"), political/economic intrigue (who's gonna help/screw the city of Kelvin while it's down?), and a way to bring a group of disparate PCs together to bond in the face of adversity! dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 05:36:18 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note, the following information is a SPOILER!!! If you want surprises out of King Thar Read no further! Really. King Thar is a Nosferatu! George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beau" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Fwd: Review -The new Player's Handbook > At 12:09 08/15/2000 -0500, George Hrabovsky wrote: > >I think the goblin vampire is just fine, considering what King Thar is... > > (blink, blink) > OK, I haven't been able to secure "Orcs of Thar" (or WotI, or "Champions > of Mystara," or ...) on eBay, so clue me in. > What IS Thar? According to JA he's just, IIRC, a big orc. (Of course, > considering how goofy the 2E AD&D take on Kol is, I don't know if I can > trust that book ... I do know I'm turning Kol back into a kobold sorcerer > or sorcerer/wizard/fighter in 3E). > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:00:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/15/00 10:18:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Mystaros@AOL.COM writes: << All I can think of is what this list could do with that kind of a book... think about it! 320 pages dedicated to 3E Mystara! Wow! >> If only it would happen. Since WotC seems to be doing a fair job of listening to the fans, perhaps in the years to come it could be made a reality. All we'd really need is a core book (like the FR one), a new monster's compendium, some gazetters and a PWA each year. Is that too much to ask? ;) -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:07:49 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/15/00 8:09:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: << Would you prefer going back to the days when the Forgetit Realms of Munchkindom were the "official" base campaign world? >> Hence why I've made Mystara the default world for my games, considering I've been getting ready to convert a lot of Mystara stuff to 3e. Greyhawk always reminded me too much of He-Man for some reason (is Vecna really Skeletor, we may never know), and thus I could never take it seriously. And the Realms, well lets just say that the way I've always described this Realms is like Middle-Earth on crack. Now if we could just get WotC to print some new material for the Known World... -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Magister Mystaros wrote: > All I can think of is what this list could do with that kind of a book... > think about it! 320 pages dedicated to 3E Mystara! Wow! And, dare I say, It would probably be better than anything that could have ever been written on the Forgettable Realms. Ethan - Busy writing out Thimhallan3e, Snarta3e, and Technomancer prestige class ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:18:33 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Scaring your players >(sent into a maddened frenzy by the power of the Horn of Herne, an artifact >that the forces of evil were trying to recover from the Caves of Chaos). Was that an "official" artifact, or something from your campaign? If the latter, could you share it with us? :-) Geoff, looking for another excuse to scare his players.... -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:03:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > << Would you prefer going back to the days when the Forgetit Realms of > Munchkindom were the "official" base campaign world? >> > > Well, get ready for this - the Forgotten Realms, though not the "default" > setting for the new Dungeons & Dragons, will get their own book in 2001, What? No you CAN'T be serious. PLEASE no. NO NO NO NO NO! AARRGGHH! (runnin' screaming from the room). ;^) Actually I must admit to my opinions of FR being highly coloured by the GM who ran it and the players in that group. Probably if I'd been lucky enough to meet 3D PC's instead of munchies, and a campaign where we seemed to make a little headway occasionally, I'd enjoy it. However I didn't, so any future FR interactions for me will be forever tainted. Proof positive that aversion therapy really works! Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:48:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... >>Also: >> " Many of my specific ideas have found fruitful ground outside the core books. The D&D Gazetteer, which provides a map and a brief overview of Oerth, is a product that is near and dear to my heart. " << >> No mention here of the Mystara D&D Gazetteers as source of inspiration, as if the idea came out of nowhere, << In their defense on this, the term "Gazetteer" WAS first applied to Greyhawk, not the KW. I still have (somewhere) my original Greyhawk Gazetter, which came in a folder (now lost), with a thin white booklet (the Gazetter itself) which had short but descriptive sections on the countries, nationalities, language, geographic features, etc. and two maps (I still have those somewhere, too, though they're a bit worn.) Now, as for the idea of nice little accessories describing a country or region, that was first used for the KW (what would become Mystara), and then "stolen" for use in FR, but thats what happens with good ideas - they get used in a variety of contexts. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:57:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Darokin Religion: Part 1 of 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, I did a little brainstorming on my lunch break yesterday, and this is what I came up with for religion in Darokin.. let me know what you all think: --------------------------------------------------- Faith and Worship in the Republic of Darokin (Part 1) The Immortals: A great many immortals are honoured by the diverse peoples of Darokin, but certain immortals are more widely honoured than others, as they more closely embody the spirit of the citizens of Darokin. Foremost among the Darokin pantheon is Asterius, immortal patron of Trade, Communications, Wealth, and even Thieves. Almost every native Darokin citizen honours Asterius, particularly before engaging in new business ventures. After Asterius, the other immortals of the Darokin pantheon are Koryis (Peace, Prosperity, and Commerce), and The Twelve Watchers (manufacturing and crafts, labourers). Though Asterius is the chief immortal of the pantheon, Koryis and the Twelve Watchers are honoured in the temples easily as often as is Asterius. Protius is also part of the pantheon, but is honoured mostly by people living in communities by Malpheggi Bay, and his image may not even appear in temples located further inland. Demihumans tend to worship their own immortal patrons, but many of them also honour the Darokinian pantheon. Dwarves in Darokin tend to worship Garal Glitterlode at least, if not more, often than they do Kagyar. In towns with a significant dwarven population, Garal Glitterlode is even depicted as part of the main pantheon of Darokin immortals. [I intend to add other immortals later, once I've had a chance to go through the books] The Temples: All of the major cities and towns in the Republic have temples dedicated to the Darokin pantheon. Just as the cities and towns of Darokin developed more or less independently, so did the individual temples. There is no central authority governing the temples in Darokin - they do cooperate with one another on an informal basis, but they are independent of each other and like it that way. The Great Merger did have an effect of the temple leaders, however, who followed the example of the merchant houses and gathered in Darokin City for a summit at that time. It was the first time all of the temple leaders had gathered in one place. Though merging the temples into one centralized church was discussed; the option was rejected on the grounds of being against the character of worship in Darokin. However, the newly formed Inner Council expressed an interest in having a spiritual advisor to participate in Council meetings. The temple leaders favoured this idea, and elected one of their number to take over this position. The spiritual advisor to the council is largely an honourary role, offering blessings and prayers prior to the commencement of Council meetings and on holiday occasions. However, the last advisor was able to convince the Council of the importance of establishing wayfarer shrines along the major roads and trails in Darokin - the Council provided the nec! essary funds to the Temples. Each temple is responsible for constructing and maintaining these shrines within a certain distance of their hometown. The spiritual advisor to council has no voting power, and is elected by the temple leaders. In general, however, the position is not contested during the election if the incumbent wished to continue in his role. The summit of temple leaders made one other, very important, decision. It was decided that, although the temples would not integrate into one church, it was desirable to standardize the prayers for all temples. Up until that point, the independent temples had been invoking a vast array of prayers that, though based on a central theme, were different in content (sometimes in large degrees, sometimes small). The temple leaders at the summit made a call to collect every version of every prayer to be found in Darokin. These prayers were then organised and sorted through, then compiled into a single text now common in all temples across Darokin. Though the prayers had been in several different languages (depending on the source of the prayer, and the town in which it was used) it was decided that the new "Book of Prayers" would be written entirely in the Milenian language - which was also to become the common language of the Temples. Milenian was chosen for two reasons: First, a ma! jority of the prayers were originally in the Milenian tongue, as both Asterius and Protius were worshipped by the people of the Milenian Empire; Second, as almost no one outside the temple clerics knows how to read/write/speak the Milenian language, it would allow the temple leaders to keep a firm hold on religious power [this second reason was not broadcast to the people at large]. The temple buildings themselves are generally ostentatious and wealthy - the wealthier the better, in fact, as the immortals of the Darokin pantheon smile upon those who show prosperity and wealth. Temples can be large or small, depending on the size and wealth of the town, but they are always as lavishly decorated as possible. The exterior often boasts friezes, bas-relief statuary, and even mosaics depicting the immortals of the pantheon. The interior is generally a main, open room dominated by statuary depicting the various immortals (the image of Asterius is always the largest and most prominent, except in Athenos where the image of Protius is equal with that of Asterius). Those who donate money and other forms of wealth (i.e. a gold icon depicting Koryis) receive blessings and prayers commensurate with their donations. As a result, temples are often the beneficiaries of patronage by wealthy local citizens, and are adorned with many valuable art objects and treasures. As th! e immortals of the Darokin pantheon appreciate wealth and prosperity, it is believed that they smile more favourably upon those temples, which display great wealth. Despite the temple housing a fair number of valuables, it is rarely necessary for a vigilant guard to be maintained to protect the temple wealth. Asterius, in addition to his more common roles, is also the immortal patron of thieves. As many of the valuables in the temple are icons or images of Asterius, thieves consider the theft and melting-down or resale of these icons as a source of very bad luck for the thief. As the other immortals of the pantheon are housed within the temple devoted to Asterius, the same goes for valuables associated with those immortals. Nevertheless, it would be imprudent of the temples to leave their wealth entirely unguarded. The leaders of the temples are retired clerics, sometimes of high level, and can thus invoke their magical prayers in defense of the temple. In addition, the merchant houses have a vested interest in keeping the immortals happy, and so they provide additional security to local temples when it is needed. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:01:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Darokin Religion: Part 2 of 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's part 2 of my thoughts on religion in Darokin: --------------------------------- The Clergy: Whereas most clerics in the Known World live lives of simple means, clerics in Darokin, as representatives of wealth and prosperity, are expected to amass as well as display their wealth to the citizens of Darokin. Clerics display their wealth quite openly, as an example of the kind of prosperity honouring the immortal pantheon can bring. Jewelry is common among Clerics, with rings being a particular favourite - one can often tell the rank of a cleric by the quality, value, and number of rings he wears on his fingers. All clerics of the Darokin pantheon wear tunics bearing the common symbol of the temples: a golden disk. Each temple has its own colour tunic, but the colour is a matter of local tradition and not something imposed from above. Some temples share the same colour tunic. The quality and type of material out of which the tunic is made is also part of a cleric's display of wealth. Each temple is administered by a Master, a cleric retired from the world, who spends most of his time on temple grounds ensuring that everything is in order. Assisting the Master are a number of Caretakers - young priests who have yet to complete their training. The Caretakers do most of the physical labour on temple grounds while trying to learn from the Master's example before venturing out into the world. In order to gain levels, Clerics must offer a tithe of 500gp/level. This tithe may be paid in coins, jewelry, or other valuables. All clerics own a copy of the Book of Prayers, and are proficient in written and spoken Milenian. All of the secrets of immortal magic and prayer are contained within the verses of these prayers, and a cleric acquires new spells by studying the Book of Prayers. When a cleric gains a level, or otherwise learns a new spell, it is a result of divinely granted insight into the power of one or more of the prayers contained in the book. Faith and Prayer: There are no daily or weekly services performed at the temples which the common citizens are expected to attend. Rather, the faithful visit the temples whenever they have need, and offer their prayers up to the immortals. Wealth is, of course, central to worship in the temples. Those who donate will receive blessings and honours commensurate with their donations. Noble houses often donate large sums to their local temple in return for clerical blessings on their homes, caravans, or goods, or to have a cleric accompany a shipment of goods and help bring the blessings of the immortals on the trip and the potential profits to be made therein. The most common occupation for Darokin clerics is accompanying caravans across country. Prayer is conducted in Darokin in a very unique way. When someone wishes to pray to one of the immortals for a blessing, for guidance, or any reason whatever, he goes to the local temple and approaches one of the caretakers. The caretakers fashion and prepare small wooden idols or icons that are sold to worshippers who desire to sacrifice in the temple and thus offer up a prayer to the immortals. These icons are always made of wood, and fashioned to represent in some way the type of prayer being offered (i.e. a small ship for a safe sea voyage, a horse or a cart for swift overland travel). Once the icon is chosen, the cleric consults the Book of Prayers for the correct prayer to use in the particular situation. The Book of Prayers contains a large number of prayers, each one intended for specific circumstances - clerics spend a lot of time getting to know these prayers well, so that they will know which prayer has the best chance of obtaining the desired result. Once the corre! ct prayer is chose, the cleric copies it onto s piece of paper, which is then rolled up and places inside on onto the small wooden icon. The icon and prayer are then placed in a ceremonial brazier in front of the image of the appropriate god, and then burned while the priest chants the prayer aloud (in Milenian) - this sacrifice carries the prayer up into the immortal realm where it can be heard. [In Darokin City, Corunglain, and other towns along the streel river, rather than burning offerings in a brazier at the temple, the icons and prayers are sometimes placed in small paper boats, which are placed in the river then set alight as they travel downstream with the current. The boats are treated with special oil that causes them to burn more slowly. A similar practice is common in towns on Lake Amsorak] A donation is required in order to perform this service, but the clerics at the temple will accept any amount of money (or other valuables) the worshipper is able to offer. Of course, the greater the donation, the finer the craftsmanship in the wooden icon, the more expensive the ink and paper used in recording the prayer, and thus the greater the chance that the prayer will reach immortal ears. In fact, the Book of Prayers contains more than one prayer for each situation. The prayers are more elaborate the higher the donation - thus while the poor are able to make offerings and prayers, it is the wealthy and generous whose prayers stand a much better chance of being heard, and answered. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:05:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... >> All we'd really need is a core book (like the FR one), a new monster's compendium, some gazetters and a PWA each year. Is that too much to ask? ;) << Well, it is if it isn't profitable, and I think they've decided that a surifit of semi-competing game settings undermines the profitability of each (since the fans only have so many gaming dollars to spread around). Plus, people have come to expect high production values from their gaming materiels (nice quality paper, semi-laminated covers on books, good interior artwork), which raises the expense of each item, thus raising the cost, so too many separate things, each bought by only a section of their potential market (the potential market in this case being all D&D players) isn't a successful business strategy, or so they've decided. Thus (at least for now) the culling back of supported game worlds to two widely-known and fairly widely-popular ones. Now, if as fans we'd be happy with the "good old days", when the art work was kind of iffy (ahh, the art of those old Judges Guild products), the paper quality just, well just paper, etc - per unit production costs would go down, they could probably afford to support more worlds (overhead is high, too, now that the RPG industry is significantly more "professionalized" than it was in its inception and early years - dudes churning out gaming stuff and marketing them from their basement or living room, and distributors willing to deal with things on that level. I don't think distributors do that any more, much, so. . .) The question then is - is there a big enough fan base for Mystara, so that each of the products you mentioned would be successful? Noting that "big enough" means "significantly more people than are members of the MML". Then, note needs to be taken of how crumudgeonly and stuck in our various ways many of us have become (and yes, I'm speaking of myself, but also others) - products that might please some "faction" of Mystarophiles might be widely rejected by others (just look how controvercial Wrath is among many of us). So even if there's a wide pool of fans, but many of them won't bother to buy new stuff because "they're runing Mystara! I'm just going to stick with the old stuff, and my own vision, and the OD&D rules. Its good enough for me, this stuff isn't the 'real Mystara', it just isn't right!" I kind of imagine there would be, at least among the members of this list, and possibly among other fans of the setting out there, a reaction like that. And with some justification (plenty of us like the old Mystara fine, would be happy to have new stuff if and only if it fitted within "our vision", which it won't and can't always because there are so many different visions, and are otherwise happy going our own way, building - when we have time - our distinctive versions). Several times on this list it has been mentioned by several different people over the years in several different ways that "maybie ending the line wasn't so bad, especially considering what 'they' were doing to it in those [expletive deleted] AD&D products for Mystara." So, again, if enough of us who like Mystara and form a *potential* market audience have that sort of reaction, and are indifferent to buying new products for our various, different, individual reasons, then it wouldn't be worth producing them. So we can't really blame TSR for not picking up the line again if a significant percentage (and I'd guess at least a third of Mystara fans) will end up just distaining the "new stuff" for not being appropriate for them (us). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:58:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Magister Mystaros wrote: <> Thanks for the tip, James. However, back in Spring I heard that they are going to do a Gaz for each of Greyhawk's nations, that I was referring to.. now, if that's not inspired by Mystara I dunno what it can be! Anyway, I still stand on my first point: to me it's because D&D Brand Manager pushed for Greyhawk to be the core world that it got revived, period. Stop talking (not directed to you James, just in general ;)) about fans flooding TSR mailboxes to revive their old campaign. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:05:30 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:48:23 EDT, Magister Mystaros wrote: <> Hell! Greyhawk may be the core world, but FR will ALWAYS be their draft horse! But this just disappoints me more than ever! I mean, what if I'm interested in the 53 new feats, the new classes and races, and I couldn't care less about the other stuff?? I'm forced to buy the whole damn thing just to read 1/4 of it?? <> And I'm gonna pay it more than ANY OTHER D&D product I've purchased in a gaming store!?? NO WAY! Unless I'm a FR fan, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' foot pole! But I do hope WotC will at least think about publishing a book with all new feats, PC classes and races (including those featured inside the FR hardbound) separately for all the fans not interested precisely in FR! <> Unfortunately, that's precisely all we can do about it.. THINK! *sad grin* DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:17:09 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000816170530.00842100@racine.ra.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Mike > < which are each at the introductory price of $19.95 (they will probably go up > to $24.95 to $34.95 in the next major print run, though).>> > > And I'm gonna pay it more than ANY OTHER D&D product I've purchased in a > gaming store!?? NO WAY! > > Unless I'm a FR fan, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' foot pole! > But I do hope WotC will at least think about publishing a book with all new > feats, PC classes and races (including those featured inside the FR > hardbound) separately for all the fans not interested precisely in FR! I really doubt it. I remember someone at TSR saying that Greyhawk is the basic intro world, and FR is the "advanced" line. Since only FR players are advanced, and only advanced players would need new feats, then... draw your own conclusion. It looks to me like a way to force-feed FR to anyone who wants more than the basic rules. I could be wrong, and hope I am, but I guess I'm too cynical. :-) This, along with the "Sword and Fist" (essentialy the Complete Book of Fighters and Monks) is starting to make me very leery of the 3e line. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:26:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Review -The new Player's Handbook Comments: cc: mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 7:44:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mdalmonte@provincia.ra.it writes: << makes me think.. how are gnomes and halflings treated inside Glantri? I heard once that hins are also used as guinea pigs, but I don't think they're banned like dwarves.. as for gnomes, I don't know if all Glantrians are able to tell a gnome from a dwarf, so it must be pretty hard time for them. :p >> Hmm, well if you go by the way gnomes are described in the 3e PH my guess would be they are well recieved for their interest in magic. As for halflings, my guess would be they just get overlooked or are treated like children or worse. << Where was the human monk from? Lhamsa? And what's a Progeny? gee.. I sound like a newbie, I hate that! ;p >> The player hasn't actually worked it out yet, he's rather new so I didn't make him flush out all the details of his background like I did with my more experienced players. They know good any well if they don't work out details of their past, I'll fill them out for them as needed. "What do you mean the necromancer smiles and says hello nephew?" hehehe. ;) << Well, from all the talking about new D&D I gathered its main praise is that it makes characters highly customizable by players. I mean, u can really have the kind of PC u want, with few or no restrictions at all. Now this also means new D&D is going towards powerplay, IMHO, but it's not really a gripe if it's handled properly. >> Exactly. The best part, IMO, is that many good optional rules have become part of the core mechanic, and many rules that should have optional to being with are now handled more freely, such as wizards wearing armor, and forth. << What I really see problematic is Combat, as u anticipated. I already feel my brain aching when I'll start reading that manual.. and let's not think about DMG! OUUCHH! Too many rules all together is frustrating. I still think new D&D is more for experienced players than for neophites. >> The new combat system is a little much at first, but after re-reading the rules before I ran this past weekend, I got a much better feel for them and realized it just seems more complex than it really is. Since everything seems to flow together, it's really not so bad. It's just a matter of getting use to it. One of the best things I've seen is how spells are handled. Now that I've finally had time to sit down and read all the magic section and most of the 500+ spells, I'm even more impressed by the overall unity between the rules. My favorite combo so far is using feats such as Weapon Focus and Point Blank Shot to improve ranged touch attacks with spells. I didn't even know that was possible to I saw it pointed out on Eric Noah's 3e page this morning. It's the little combos like that which are made possible by the cohesion of the core mechanic, and is what makes the system so great. No more clunky rules to deal with, ahhh, every DM should rejoice. ;) << Thanks, and take your time, don't worry. :) >> Speaking of which, I have the last part of the review it almost finished, and would have finished last night had I not be invited to game. A friend of mine just finished converting stuff for his world, and decided he was in the mood to run a session. I played a character I discussed with him earlier, a very wise but very stubborn dwarven wizard. Which turned out to be very fun. But anyway, unless I get distracted again, I should have the last part up tonight. If not, I'll surely have it up on the list before the DMG arrives. ;) And hopefully I'll start up a webpage soon to post various 3e conversions for Mystara, as well as new rules and info on 3e and stuff related to my world. It may be a little while, but I should have it up by early september, if all goes well. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:34:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 8:23:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT writes: << Unless I'm a FR fan, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' foot pole! But I do hope WotC will at least think about publishing a book with all new feats, PC classes and races (including those featured inside the FR hardbound) separately for all the fans not interested precisely in FR! >> Hopefully they'll print them in the various class books they're doing, the upcoming Sword and Fist (a fighter and monk book) which is suppose to cover things such as new prestige classes, feats, etc. I'm also hoping they'll do a new race book or books like that, covering race-specific prestige classes, subraces, and so forth. The best bet for getting the stuff from the FR book you want would be to borrow it from someone who buys it. That's what I plan to do. I know at least two FR junkies who will be sure to shell out the hefty price and when they do, I'll make sure to pay them a visit and copy what I want out of the book. ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:38:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 9:33:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: << This, along with the "Sword and Fist" (essentialy the Complete Book of Fighters and Monks) is starting to make me very leery of the 3e line. >> Fear not, I'm sure someone will post the various feats, prestige classes, skills, etc., somewhere on the web. One way or another, if you want them, you'll be able to get them without buying the books. In my opinion, the best source for new 3e material for a resonable price is Dragon magazine. The last issue was loaded with good info, and the next one (from the description on Eric Noah's page) seems to be even better! If they keep this up, I might have to get a subscription...again. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:28:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <7b.85570fc.26cc1d7b@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:38 08/16/2000 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >In my opinion, the best source for new 3e material for a resonable price is >Dragon magazine. The last issue was loaded with good info, and the next one >(from the description on Eric Noah's page) seems to be even better! If they >keep this up, I might have to get a subscription...again. I haven't gotten the second 3E issue yet -- my new subscription comes a bit later than Eric's -- but while the Mystic prestige class was pretty, well, lame, the new Duelist sounds cool, and I look forward to more of these (although I'm sure they'll all eventually show up in other books). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:18:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <200008161618.JAA03369@smtp.zzz.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:17 08/16/2000 +0000, Mike & Rebecca Harvey wrote: >> But I do hope WotC will at least think about publishing a book with all new >> feats, PC classes and races (including those featured inside the FR >> hardbound) separately for all the fans not interested precisely in FR! > >I really doubt it. I remember someone at TSR saying that Greyhawk is >the basic intro world, and FR is the "advanced" line. Since only FR >players are advanced, and only advanced players would need new feats, >then... draw your own conclusion. It looks to me like a way to >force-feed FR to anyone who wants more than the basic rules. I could >be wrong, and hope I am, but I guess I'm too cynical. :-) Have you considered that the new feats, classes, races and skills will be (to put it delicately) FR-centric ... or, to be rude about it, lame? The 3E list is pretty comprehensive, and if you somehow think there's a need for more feats (although, honestly, they'd have to be pretty specialized to bring something new to the table), there's always "Dragon," the High-Level Campaigns book, the two class complete books and so on. Just got the 3E PHB last night, and gave it a good skimming (very amused that the halflings are now essentially kender, which is a good idea, but I wish I'd realized it before I jumped feet-first into a Shires campaign), and I cannot imagine that there's any new FR classes or feats that aren't just 3E versions of the abominations from the "_____ of the Realms" books and "Faiths and Avatars." FR fans can keep that stuff, thanks. >This, along with the "Sword and Fist" (essentialy the Complete Book >of Fighters and Monks) is starting to make me very leery of the 3e >line. Really? I always expected there to be a new Complete Book series, but I'm glad they're doing them two classes at a time now. I don't plan on getting "Sword and Fist" -- no need for samurai IMC -- but I'll likely get the Sorcerer/Wizard book and Bard/Rogue book when they come out. But, again, maybe I won't. Not sure how much more expansion I would really be able to use vis-a-vis feats, classes and prestige classes. I suspect I'll be spending more energy tweaking a Hin Master prestige class, adding new skills like Literacy and so on to my campaigns. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:31:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my opinion, the best source for new 3e material for a resonable price is Dragon magazine. The last issue was loaded with good info, and the next one (from the description on Eric Noah's page) seems to be even better! If they keep this up, I might have to get a subscription...again. What's Eric's URL? BoBoII ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:32:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 7:08:11 AM Central Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > If only it would happen. Since WotC seems to be doing a fair job of listening > to the fans, perhaps in the years to come it could be made a reality. All > we'd really need is a core book (like the FR one), a new monster's > compendium, some gazetters and a PWA each year. Is that too much to ask? ;) Delurk Mode: Someone could see about their thoughts on the licence now right? Someone writes it that cares, WotC publishes and distributes it? .02, JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:46:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 10:42:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: << What's Eric's URL? >> http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/ - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:50:17 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 10:43:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << I haven't gotten the second 3E issue yet -- my new subscription comes a bit later than Eric's -- but while the Mystic prestige class was pretty, well, lame, the new Duelist sounds cool, and I look forward to more of these (although I'm sure they'll all eventually show up in other books). >> I have to agree, the Mystic wasn't great per se, but then again I wasn't interested in the actual class itself, but the guidlines for making prestige classes and the Mystic as sample of how one should look. Speaking of which, does anyone have any good ideas for some Mystara-specific prestige classes? I've considered a few, but haven't really come up with anything great. Ideas anyone? - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:55:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 10:23:15 AM Central Daylight Time, mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT writes: > And I'm gonna pay it more than ANY OTHER D&D product I've purchased in a > gaming store!?? NO WAY! > > Unless I'm a FR fan, I wouldn't touch it with a 10' foot pole! > But I do hope WotC will at least think about publishing a book with all new > feats, PC classes and races (including those featured inside the FR > hardbound) separately for all the fans not interested precisely in FR! Its no more expensive than if you had tried to buy the Rod of Seven Parts boxed set when it came out, or any other boxed set that I can think of thats came out fairly recently. If you want the content then one must pay the entire price. I mean, I probably could have done without the new updates on the spells for 3E and made up bunches of my own without much trouble but no one (I hope) would suggest that WotC toss out 5-10$ hardbound copies of PHB lite just so I could do that. Personally I'm still very happy that ANYTHING is being published out there in the D&D gaming community again. For a while there, in the thrashing death screams of TSR, I thought I was going to have to start converting WW stuff to fit in my campaign one day. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:22:27 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: DMing is Like Dealing Drugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/16/00 3:43:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > Want to start your campaign with a bang? Consider burning Kelvin > (in Karameikos) to a crisp! I once started a campaign with a Dungeon > Magazine adventure, "A Hot Day in L'trel," (Issue #44) modified for > use in Mystara. =20 Thanks for posting this again! What a great concept! Thanks too for providing enough details so that it can be fleshed out more easily. A few=20 years back, I wrote up "Under Lavv", borrowing some elements from the=20 movie "Young Sherlock Holmes"(by Steven Spielberg). Among those I=20 used were a cult bent on restoring an ancient Egyptian (read Nithian) god=20 with sacrifices of seven young girls. The cult also was methodically=20 murdering all those who could identify the leaders, who now were posing=20 as a schoolmaster and the school nurse! The movie's cult followed an=20 imagined god, but the cult in Kelvin prays to a Cthuloid creature! [Another= =20 Kartoeba (Module B10) washed downriver from Foamfire valley.] The creature=20 arrived long after Lavv's destruction by the gnoll horde=E2=80=94during an e= xtremely=20 heavy rainy-season, whose floodwaters swept it out of the mountains and=20 totally submerged Lavv. When the waters finally receded, Lavv was left=20 buried=20 in a deep bank of mud. Fifty years prior to the adventure's start, a=20 religious=20 sect from the time when Lavv was ruled by Hutaakans, began to dig tunnels=20 under "Kelvin" in a search to find the pyramid of Pflarr. [IMC, Thanatos=20 slowly insinuated himself as Pflarr to many Hutaakans, gradually swaying the= m=20 to evil ways.] The current cult has dug manymore tunnels beneath Kelvin and= =20 is feed- ing the tentacled abomination with human sacrifices of young girls. They=20 have=20 animated the corpses of beastmen (they found the mass graves=E2=80=94preserv= ed by the mud) to use as guards and perhaps even as an army! They are black- mailing prominent people in Kelvin (using death threats and kidnappings) and= =20 have sent groups to Threshold and Specularum to found branch temples. If=20 not stopped, they could eventually threaten all of Kelvin and then be free t= o=20 inflict other cities with their evil! =20 If used, "Under Lavv" would probably need to go before the scenario you=20 described ("Kelvin in Flames"?) to allow for the black mailing. But the two= =20 could be linked by making the cult responsible for the fire (which would=20 benefit them), which they caused via the mage. In the movie, the cult used=20 darts that introduce a drug that causes terrifying hallucinations. Take you= r=20 mage experimenting with fire magics, shoot him with a dart, add several tuns= =20 of stolen pitch hidden in his attic, mix and boom!=E2=80=94you've got Kelvin= burning!=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:09:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:50 08/16/2000 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >Speaking of which, does anyone have any good ideas for some Mystara-specific >prestige classes? I've considered a few, but haven't really come up with >anything great. Ideas anyone? Hin Master is pretty much a gimme. I don't know if the Mystara3E people are working up a write-up, but if they don't, I most certainly will, once the 3E DMG is in my hands. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mike wrote: >I really doubt it. I remember someone at TSR saying that Greyhawk is >the basic intro world, and FR is the "advanced" line. Since only FR >players are advanced, and only advanced players would need new feats, >then... draw your own conclusion. It looks to me like a way to >force-feed FR to anyone who wants more than the basic rules. I could >be wrong, and hope I am, but I guess I'm too cynical. :-) You know, I thought the whole purpose of 3E was to get away from this situation, where DMs wishing to have the full gaming experience at their fingertips had to purchase a veritable library of sourcebooks. What do I hear now: 1. Player's Guide 2. DM's Guide 3. Monster Manual 4. FR book for more advanced players (and I agree this would be force-feeding Fr on a new generation of gamers - my opinion, of course) 5. a rumoured book on psionics What else....? I don't know, but it looks to me as thought 3E is only repackaging the old "problem". All my opinion, of course. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:36:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Deldain wrote: >upcoming Sword and Fist (a fighter and monk book) which is suppose to cover >things such as new prestige classes, feats, etc. Aaaargh! See?!? There it is again!! Yet *another* sourcebook to "add more detail to your lovely campaigns, and to occupy more space on your bookshelf". Let me guess, there will be a book for spellcasters too, and what about thieves? That might bring the full collection up to, oh, 6-7 books. I'll admit I haven't read any of it yet, but this does *not* look promising. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:42:00 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: Scaring your players Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Beau Yarbrough >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Scaring your players >Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:57:23 -0700 > > Kudoes to you for achieving an exellent atmosphere. My DM hasn't been >able to pull it off yet. However the appearance of two armored illithids on >a suddenly deserted street in the middle of the afternoon in the Nest in >Mirros has really come close. Anyway you bring back fond memories of the evil DM I used to be, sigh. congrats kevin ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:00:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Ierendi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone come up with alternate ideas for what the Ierendi islands might be like. I admit that I like some of the stuff in that Gazetteer, but the whole touristy idea falls a little flat in my opinion. I've considered having the islands being wild and uncharted volcanic places, but it seems to me quite unlikely that they would go uncolonized when they are so close to the mainland coast and the Known World has been so well settled in most areas (particularly near the coast.. Thyatis, Darokin, the Five Shires, Minrothad). I consider the Known World to be in a period akin to our own early renaissance. Perhaps the Ierendi islands could be a last bastion of old-style adventuring. Ierendi could attract "tourists" in the form of adventurers seeking a kind of experience no longer to be found in the rest of the Known World. So, has anyone had any interesting ideas about an Ierendi different from the Gazetteer (not necessarily completely different, but without all that touristy stuff)? Erik ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:54:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <200008161833.OAA16622@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:33 08/16/2000 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >You know, I thought the whole purpose of 3E was to get away from this >situation, where DMs wishing to have the full gaming experience at their >fingertips had to purchase a veritable library of sourcebooks. What do I >hear now: > >1. Player's Guide >2. DM's Guide >3. Monster Manual Those are the required books. WotC is promising that outside of FR-specific adventures, nothing will ever require anything else. >4. FR book for more advanced players (and I agree this would be >force-feeding Fr on a new generation of gamers - my opinion, of course) The "more advanced players" thing I first heard on this list. Everywhere else, it's just being targetted at FR players and that's all. >5. a rumoured book on psionics It's not rumored. You can pre-order it at Amazon.com now. There's also a series of books with two-to-three classes each in them, with new feats, spells, weapons, prestige classes and so on. The first book is fighter/monk and the last (next December, I think) will be barbarian/ranger/druid. Again, not required. If I get my 3E Glantri campaign going, I'll likely take a look at the Sorcerer/Wizard book, if it gets good reviews. >What else....? A High Level Campaigns book. >I don't know, but it looks to me as thought 3E is only repackaging the old >"problem". All my opinion, of course. What problem? I find I have to buy a hell of a lot more to run a Mystara campaign than I did for any other setting or for any of the other incarnations of D&D. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:01:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Scaring your players In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:42 08/16/2000 GMT, kevin wyton wrote: >> Kudoes to you for achieving an exellent atmosphere. My DM hasn't been >>able to pull it off yet. However the appearance of two armored illithids on >>a suddenly deserted street in the middle of the afternoon in the Nest in >>Mirros has really come close. >Anyway you bring back fond memories of the evil DM I used to be, sigh. Ha! You know, this isn't REALLY evil yet ... my players will soon be encountering a friendly wizard around a campfire when they're (I'm assuming) on the run soon. Then they'll find out who he is -- one of the most wanted men in the Known World and an Infamous villain -- and that he's apparently connected to one of them. THAT will be evil. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:58:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <200008161836.OAA17320@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:36 08/16/2000 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >See?!? There it is again!! Yet *another* sourcebook to "add more detail to >your lovely campaigns, and to occupy more space on your bookshelf". You're aware that WotC is a publishing business, right? What else would you think they'd do? >Let >me guess, there will be a book for spellcasters too, and what about >thieves? That might bring the full collection up to, oh, 6-7 books. I'll >admit I haven't read any of it yet, but this does *not* look promising. Because they're forcing you to buy this stuff? It's all optional. Hell, it was all optional in other versions of the game, too. I just never get this argument when I see it advanced. I have a handful of supplements, some of them going back as far as the pastel days of 1E AD&D, but what I buy, keep and use has nothing to do what anyone but me thinks is useful. So I've got the 1E "Rogues Gallery" (mostly for the cool NPCs at the end who are all now so obscure I can drop them in without fear of recognition), the 2E Wizard, Thief, Bard, Necromancer and Humanoids books (although I'll be dumping the Humanoids book most likely when the new Monster Manual comes out), some Al-Qadim stuff, some Mystara stuff (which is occupying the most space on my bookshelf) and I also plan on using some supplemental material from "Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade" for my Glantri games. NONE of that was ever forced on me. I successfully resisted the Player's Option materials, and I know I'm buying very little 3E material once the Monster Manual comes out in October. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:06:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 11:45:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: << That might bring the full collection up to, oh, 6-7 books. I'll admit I haven't read any of it yet, but this does *not* look promising. >> I if I remember correctly there will be one for Fighters & Monks, Clerics & Paladins, Wizards & Sorcerers, Bards and Rogues, and a 'Nature Class' book for Rangers, Druids and Barbarians. Which means 5 books in all. That's much better than the 9 or more class books there were for 2e. I don't get what does not look promising about having more books. Like always, you don't need the additional books. You can run straight out of the core books with no problem.The additional books are for those who want them. Not to sound rude, but what did you expect WotC to do, publish nothing but the corebooks and campaign settings and no supplements? - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:40:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: Lord Deldain's message of "Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:06:38 EDT" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lord Deldain writes: > I don't get what does not look promising about having more books. Like > always, you don't need the additional books. That's just what was said about Complete *, the Player's Option books, etc. (Which 3e was originally supposed to correct.) -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 86 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes, 4 seconds till we run away. Cheer Up! Things are getting worse at a slower rate. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:43:35 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lord Deldain wrote: > I have to agree, the Mystic wasn't great per se, but then again I wasn't > interested in the actual class itself, but the guidlines for making prestige > classes and the Mystic as sample of how one should look. > > Speaking of which, does anyone have any good ideas for some Mystara-specific > prestige classes? I've considered a few, but haven't really come up with > anything great. Ideas anyone? Funny you mention that.... I was reading the Prestige class guidelines in Dragon a couple of days back and a few things came rattling out of my head. Karameikos - Order of the Griffon - Cult of Halav Ylaruam - Dervish - Fire Mage Glantri - Order of the Radiance - the Secret Crafts - Free Wolves (PC4) - various mystic orders Alfheim - Treekeepers - disciples of the Way of the Tree Rockhome - Dwarven Artificers (hammer chants anyone?) - Dwarven Engineer Darokin - Guild Merchant - DDC Diplomat Minrothad - Merchant Prince - Sea Elves Shires - Hin Master (especially good for monk and sorceror class) - Hin Pirate Thyatis - Foresters - Retebius Air Fleet - Knight of the Air - Gladiator - Senator - Rake (? a special guild for rogues maybe) Alphatia - Marine/Airman - Alphatian Courtier (could Haldemar have a few levels of this one?) - Alphatian Councillor (big requirements for this one - it is the ruling council after all) Ethengar - Hakomon - Shaman - Horse Warrior Northern - Skald Reaches - Witch Robrenn - Druid - Druidic Knight Serraine! - Gnomish Engineer - Top Ballista Pilot Some ideas I've been toying with for a Blackmoor campaign: - Spy of the Fetch - Technomancer - Medium/Oracle (related to Ethengar Shaman, but from before changes to the Spirit World from GRoF) And to revive the flavour of the OD&D Mystara that I miss so much, I have considered not allowing the regular Paladin and Druid classes (maybe not even the Ranger - a re-write of the Thyatian Forester maybe?) and instead make them into Prestige classes, so they are once again goals to work towards instead of starting places. A list of Prestige classes based on the old rules might look something like... - Paladin - Knight - Avenger - Druid And what about the Paths to Immortality? Maybe that could be partly based on Prestige classes as well. They would be very difficult to qualify for, but once you have your first level as a Paragon, Polymath, Dynast, or Epic Hero, you could consider yourself "on the path" to Immortality, so to speak. Of course the really big stuff would be left for any epic conclusion to your quest. Maybe one of the requirements for Immortality would be attaining a certain level in the quest class.... I don't know if I like that, but its a possibility. I have visions of a powerful wizard who has ruled a dominion for many years and has just managed to obtain his first level as a Dynast (in my campaign, class restrictions on Paths were dropped). With the guidance of his Patron, he has just uncovered an ancient scroll with some strange references to an obscure school of magic known as chronomancy.... Yet another Prestige class maybe, and his key to perpetuating the rule of his descendants.... Oh, and something that jumped out at me right away.... The Assassin Prestige class coming in the DMG.... Does that scream Sindhi Thug to anyone, or is it just me? I'm busy trying to fill in the blanks on some of these lists and actually flesh them out with rules and requirements. If anyone has any ideas, I would certainly welcome them. Ta' for now! Ray ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:08:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Ierendi In-Reply-To: <000816150004AD.07673@webb3.iname.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Has anyone come up with alternate ideas for what the Ierendi islands > might be like. I admit that I like some of the stuff in that Gazetteer, > but the whole touristy idea falls a little flat in my opinion. Former List Ogre Leroy proposed an alternate Ierendi GAZ when the list first started, but no one has run with it yet - I'm sure some other folks may want to lend a hand on such a project. > I consider the Known World to be in a period akin to our own early > renaissance. Perhaps the Ierendi islands could be a last bastion of > old-style adventuring. Ierendi could attract "tourists" in the form of > adventurers seeking a kind of experience no longer to be found in the > rest of the Known World. That does fit in well with the existing GAZ, as well as to existing canon in general. I'm not sure about last bastion though - places like Karameikos and Norworld are very untamed. > So, has anyone had any interesting ideas about an Ierendi different from > the Gazetteer (not necessarily completely different, but without all > that touristy stuff)? Check with Leroy - I think there may have been discussion a few years back, but don't recall any specific suggestions off-hand. At the least, no one has really run with such a project yet. Feel free to take charge of one, if you have the time and energy! - Mischa It's time the new pro-freedom libertarian platform was implemented: child labor, orphanages, sweatshops, poorhouses, company towns, monopolies, trusts, cartels, blacklists, private goons, slumlords, etc. - Mike Huben, "Libertarianism in One Lesson" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:04:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:40 08/16/2000 -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: >Lord Deldain writes: > >> I don't get what does not look promising about having more books. Like >> always, you don't need the additional books. > >That's just what was said about Complete *, the Player's Option books, >etc. And it was true. Again, what's the problem? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:16:02 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Gander meandered fecklessly... > >upcoming Sword and Fist (a fighter and monk book) which is suppose to cover > >things such as new prestige classes, feats, etc. > > Aaaargh! > > See?!? There it is again!! Yet *another* sourcebook to "add more detail to > your lovely campaigns, and to occupy more space on your bookshelf". Let > me guess, there will be a book for spellcasters too, and what about > thieves? That might bring the full collection up to, oh, 6-7 books. I'll > admit I haven't read any of it yet, but this does *not* look promising. What else would you recommend to Wizards so that the D&D line stays afloat? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:17:32 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Shutko meandered fecklessly... > > I don't get what does not look promising about having more books. Like > > always, you don't need the additional books. > > That's just what was said about Complete *, the Player's Option books, > etc. (Which 3e was originally supposed to correct.) Was it any less true back then? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:34:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Organization: Lord of the seven Darks Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit who said they where going to fix that problem, what they said was a character made with the core books would be just a balanced as one made using the other books and so you don't have to buy the other books unless you want to. Unlike the complete books which make characters way tougher then the core books could Ken Alan Shutko wrote: > Lord Deldain writes: > > > I don't get what does not look promising about having more books. Like > > always, you don't need the additional books. > > That's just what was said about Complete *, the Player's Option books, > etc. (Which 3e was originally supposed to correct.) > > -- > Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! > 86 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes, 4 seconds till we run away. > Cheer Up! Things are getting worse at a slower rate. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:36:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection In-Reply-To: <399AEEE7.B6918420@mailandnews.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think some of these, e.g. dervishes should be new classes, not prestige classes. Likewise, I think some like the hakomon may be just a standard class with certain developmental guidelines, or otherwise new classes, but not prestige. I definitely want paladins/avengers/knights as prestige, but I've always felt that druids make sense as a class to start with, even on Mystara. The thought that all druids are converted clerics seems silly to me. It suggests that there is no culture or organization of druids, otherwise surely there would be apprentices/acolytes within their ranks. I'd been thinking about the Order of the Griffon. How convenient! There's already a rule that you have to be 5th level to join. Anyway, I'm eager to make prestige classes for all sorts of things, but I'm going to wait for the DMG before I start. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:28:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection In-Reply-To: <399AEEE7.B6918420@mailandnews.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:43 08/16/2000 -0400, Ray Brooks wrote: >Funny you mention that.... I was reading the Prestige class guidelines >in Dragon a couple of days back and a few things came rattling out of my >head. > >Karameikos - Order of the Griffon > - Cult of Halav I agree on the Order of the Griffon -- and IMC, I'm also going to have the prestige class Paladin available to most of them. How does the Cult of Halav rate? And if they do, don't the two churches? >Ylaruam - Dervish > - Fire Mage Hmmm. I was going to create Magian Fire Worshippers using the Arabian Adventures rules, or use fire elementalist rules when such appear for 3E, but this might be better. >Glantri - Order of the Radiance Good thought. That hadn't occured to me. > - the Secret Crafts Absolutely! I'd love to see these written up. > - Free Wolves (PC4) > - various mystic orders How about the Fellowship of the Claymore? >Darokin - DDC Diplomat That could be neat, >Minrothad - Sea Elves Should the sea elves be a prestige class or a whole new race (possibly with a different preferred class and so on)? >Shires - Hin Master (especially good for monk and sorceror class) MONK? I was thinking of taking the Gaz write-up and tossing in some druid bits and that would work well. Where do you get monkish aspects? > - Hin Pirate I dunno. What differentiates them from any other seahin? >Ethengar - Hakomon > - Shaman > - Horse Warrior I was thinking they were all Barbarians or Clerics, myself. >Robrenn - Druid Why not the 3E default druid? >Serraine! - Gnomish Engineer Why not just a new skill? > - Top Ballista Pilot Mmmmmaybe. I think a new skill would be enough, personally, although skygnomes might merit a modified racial write-up. >And what about the Paths to Immortality? Maybe that could be partly >based on Prestige classes as well. Absolutely. >references to an obscure school of magic known as chronomancy.... Yet >another Prestige class maybe, and his key to perpetuating the rule of >his descendants.... OK, I think you win the prize for figuring out how to make the Chronomancer work ... >Oh, and something that jumped out at me right away.... The Assassin >Prestige class coming in the DMG.... Does that scream Sindhi Thug to >anyone, or is it just me? I was thinking that Monks in the Known World would be almost exclusively Sindi. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:44:13 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Giovanni Porpora Subject: GPD site update MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I'm very proud to announce the GPD site update which this time includes the following: Rowena Krollnar Mirn Krollnar History of House Krollnar Chariot of Horst Krollnar Maximilian Hiltier Norelia Erewan's Cryptic Catalogue of Glyphs and Runes Bethys Erewan's Diadem of Dreamsharing Treasures of the Secret Craft of Dream Magic Political Affiliations in Glantri in AC 1016. updates on The Seven Secret Crafts updates on the Links page Rad save the Archduke Kit! Johan Madhorsen, Keeper of Flaemish Lore ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:58:37 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >what did you expect WotC to do, publish nothing but >the corebooks and campaign settings and no supplements? Given that 3e seems to "revive" some of "classical" AD&D stuff, I cannot but feel nosthalgic about those times where many releases were more or less generic setting advetures, which could be placed in (or taken off from) situation in TSR official campaigns. There is quite a difference for instance between the classical 1st ed series U1-U3 being placed in the Greyhawk map and some later modules in which not only the whole plot is knit into FR or GH politics and history but also there is this ton of references to blahblah campaign-particular supplement for monsters, spells, etc. Yeah, any good DM can adapt all info in a pinch, but, call me nosthalgic, generic modules always had some special allure, specially when your players are familiar with D&D world and can start jumping: "hey, this secret order is nothing but a remake of the Zhentarim!" Rules supplements are fine, I lived through 2ed just buying the ones I thought meaningful (just 3 of Complete Manuals), but I wonder what's going to be WotC policy with some books, like spell compendiums and tomes of magic: 1. the easy commercial way of just re-writing books like ToM adding some spells and prestige classes and making a fast sell, probably focused in new players over the decade+ long followers? 2. produce completely new supplements with the option of providing some conversion codes to existing supplements (maybe downloads from the net or articles in Dragon)? This could be really a treat for players who bought things like Encyclopedia Magica, diverse MC supplements and so on, where "rule-wise" info runs heavier than campaign or adventure material and it would probably increase the hopes of old players for the new supplements, knowing that they are not going to face some new digestion of their heavy shelf of sourcebooks. Supplements are needed, but, if some of them turn to be re-writes for players of 2ed, the image of 3E is not going to be good. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:52:02 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: Leroy Van Camp III's message of "Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:16:02 -0600" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Leroy Van Camp III writes: > What else would you recommend to Wizards so that the D&D > line stays afloat? Well, according Ryan Dancey (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/interview-rsd-0300.htm): We make more revenue and more profit from our core rulebooks than any other part of our product lines. In a sense, every other RPG product we sell other than the core rulebooks is a giant, self-financing marketing program to drive sales of those core books. At an extreme view, you could say that the core book of D&D -- the PHB -- is the focus of all this activity, and in fact, the PHB is the #1 best selling, and most profitable RPG product Wizards of the Coast makes year in and year out. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 86 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes, 38 seconds till we run away. Help fight continental drift. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:46:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: Beau's message of "Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:04:38 -0700" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Beau writes: > And it was true. > Again, what's the problem? The problem is that it was true for some amount of time, before things started depending on the rules in all those varied works. Now 3e hasn't even been completely released yet, and the golden era of hoping to be able to go to a convention and know you can play with just the core rules, or being able to run a campaign without n annoying whiners complaining about having bought 24 supplemental books and not being able to use them is _already_ planned to go away. The problem is that we were told that they'd learned their lesson and would lay off (for at least a little while). Yes, you can do anything you want in your campaign. The problems with hemorrhaging rule sets is when you get together with other people. Having a single, cohesive set of rules is why we got AD&D 1, why we got AD&D 2, and why we got AD&D 3. Ah, but what can WotC sell if not for billions of rule books? Well, there are adventures, campaign settings, etc. Now, if the planned works _really_ do contain no additional mechanics, that would be fine. It'll be similar to compilations of magic items or spells, which have little impact on the way people play the game. But with psionics on the list, I have little faith. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 86 days, 18 hours, 57 minutes, 42 seconds till we run away. Twice burned, forever shy. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:14:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <003201c007c4$c1ae8b80$db14ebc3@uchicago.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 22:58 08/16/2000 +0200, Andr=E9s Piquer Otero wrote: >Given that 3e seems to "revive" some of "classical" AD&D stuff, I cannot= but >feel nosthalgic about those times where many releases were more or less >generic setting advetures, which could be placed in (or taken off from) >situation in TSR official campaigns. There is quite a difference for >instance between the classical 1st ed series U1-U3 being placed in the >Greyhawk map and some later modules in which not only the whole plot is= knit >into FR or GH politics and history but also there is this ton of references >to blahblah campaign-particular supplement for monsters, spells, etc. Yeah, >any good DM can adapt all info in a pinch, but, call me nosthalgic, generic >modules always had some special allure, specially when your players are >familiar with D&D world and can start jumping: "hey, this secret order is >nothing but a remake of the Zhentarim!" You'll be happy to know then that the eight main modules (the "Adventure Path" series of non-linked modules) will all apparently be extremely generic. And the first two, "The Sunless Citadel" and "Forge of Fury," look quite good. (It's too early to get an idea about the next two.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:46 08/16/2000 -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: >The problem is that it was true for some amount of time, before things >started depending on the rules in all those varied works. Now 3e >hasn't even been completely released yet, and the golden era of hoping >to be able to go to a convention and know you can play with just the >core rules, or being able to run a campaign without n annoying whiners >complaining about having bought 24 supplemental books and not being >able to use them is _already_ planned to go away. 1) Convention play is atypical of what people do at home but, as with home campaigns ... 2) The DM sets the rules for what's used. If the players don't like it, tough. A good DM could run a fun game with the three original minibooks, IMO. EVERYTHING since then has been gravy. >Ah, but what can WotC sell if not for billions of rule books? Well, >there are adventures, campaign settings, etc. Both massive losers. TSR's worst financial moments not coincidentally match up with the periods it had the most campaign settings on the shelves. >But with >psionics on the list, I have little faith. Why do psionics per se change things? Many people (including me) want them nowhere near the core rules, but since many people do use them, there's no way they weren't going to offer them again. Hell, this time, they may even get them right. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:27:32 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Giovanni Porpora Subject: I always miss something Comments: cc: shawnrj3000@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I forgot the URL, Here's the URL http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/ sorry! Bye Giovanni ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:08:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wasn't WOTC's declared reason for creating 3rd Edition ( and TSR's for creating 2nd Edition, when that was released ) because the rules had gotten too complicated, with a plethora of rules in 'Complete' books and other sources? By the sounds of it, they are in danger of re-creating the situation they were supposedly trying to eliminate, by adding additional rules right from the start, in a similar format. Placing fewer rules in supplements does seem to be a good idea - maybe they should make the new version of the 'Complete' books more about role-playing the various types of characters, rather than pages and pages of new rules for them? Richard Tongue ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 18:49:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Prestige paladins,was Greyhawk resurrection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, isn't this part of the whole new attitude towards multi-classes? If youhave a fighter, who wants to joint the Knights of ______, he 'has to provehimself worthy, etc." Well, that fighter converts alignment through role play to LG (maybe a variation of attonment) and then makes the switch add a level of Paladin instead of the next fighter. All you would need to do is add the one or two "Feats" they specialize in and voila, OD&D Paladin. Instead of killing ourselves making up new classes, think of what can be achieved through the more flexible multiclassing. I think a lot of us have the old system so ingrained in attitudes, that we look for "new classes" instead fo new combinations. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:02:33 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm considering converting some of the Immortals into 3e rules, in a fashion similar to how the Greyhawk gods are handled in the PH in the religion section. Any suggestions, comments, ideas? Below is an example of what I mean, using Khronous. Note that I am taking a lot of liberty with the Immortals, since the only information I have to go on is what I've found on the net and my personal opinions on how they should be presented for players. Oh, and the special benefits listed replace normal clerical benefits such as swapping for healing spells. ----------------- Khronous, the Immortal of time, is lawful neutral in alignment. His title is Father Time. Khronous is a patron for those who seek to learn the lessons time can teach. His followers are typically sagely and peaceful beings, who pursue knowledge and wisdom above all else. The domains he is associated with are time*, knowledge and balance*. His symbol is that of an hourglass and his favored weapon is the scythe. Special benefits: Bonus feat- Extend Spell, +2 bonus to all Reflex saves * these are new domains which I have yet to create. Time is obviously going to contain spells from the 2e time sphere, and it's granted power will be a Initiative bonus (hence why I didn't list it as a special benefit). Balance is going to basically be the 'Neutral' domain, since every other alignment type got one. ----------------- Well? - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:04:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <000401c006b1$97cf57e0$614f893e@default> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:08 08/15/2000 +0100, Richard Tongue wrote: >Wasn't WOTC's declared reason for creating 3rd Edition ( and TSR's for >creating 2nd Edition, when that was released ) because the rules had gotten >too complicated, with a plethora of rules in 'Complete' books and other >sources? No, because the rule set didn't work right, it was clunky by today's standards and all the different components weren't balanced against each other. 3E does that. Most of the supplementary material (including house rules) has been folded into the core game. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > The question then is - is there a big enough fan base for Mystara, so > that each of the products you mentioned would be successful? Noting that > "big enough" means "significantly more people than are members of the > MML". Unfortunately not. Though there should be! Mystara was never marketed well. As a oD&D campaign, I heard complaints that "It's not _Advanced_.. it's baby D&D". When it changed to 2nd ed, I complained that the 2ed rules sucked willies :) Not only that but the Mystara 2ed was piss poor, IMHO, and didn't do the original setting justice. Everything-wise, Mystara is the largest, most detailed OOP world. Unfortunately, it's high-fantasy would compete with GH, it's depth would compete with FR, and it's sheer coolness would demand that it be the default D&D world. However... Chances of bringing Mystara back as more than a world run by the legions of fans? Nil. See reasons noted above. It's sad when a great world, with oodles of depth and intrigue is overshadowed by a world comprised soley of half-elven 18/00 STR fighter/mage/cleric/theives, with more players options than charisma points. Ethan - there is only one D&D world worth playing in. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:26:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <200008161618.JAA03369@smtp.zzz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Mike & Rebecca Harvey wrote: > This, along with the "Sword and Fist" (essentialy the Complete Book > of Fighters and Monks) is starting to make me very leery of the 3e > line. Don't be. It can't get as bad as 2ed. It was designed not to. Or until Ed Greedwood writes another FR novel. Got to keep the power levels high!! Munchkins for all! Ethan - Best thing Greenwood wrote was "The 5 Shires" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:29:59 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Shutko meandered fecklessly... > > What else would you recommend to Wizards so that the D&D > > line stays afloat? > > Well, according Ryan Dancey > (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/interview-rsd-0300.htm): > > We make more revenue and more profit from our core rulebooks than > any other part of our product lines. In a sense, every other RPG > product we sell other than the core rulebooks is a giant, > self-financing marketing program to drive sales of those core > books. At an extreme view, you could say that the core book of D&D > -- the PHB -- is the focus of all this activity, and in fact, the > PHB is the #1 best selling, and most profitable RPG product > Wizards of the Coast makes year in and year out. Right. So my question still stands. Those additional books drive sales of the PHB. I doubt that without those additonal sales derived from supplements that D&D would stay alive. With that, let me rephrase my question... What else would you recommend to Wizards to drive the sales of the PHB, so that the D&D line stays afloat? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:29:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <200008161833.OAA16622@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Geoff Gander wrote: > 5. a rumoured book on psionics Not rumored. It seems to be almost a done deal. At least they split Psionics out of the PHB. Hate them. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:39:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan Shutko meandered fecklessly... > The problem is that it was true for some amount of time, before things > started depending on the rules in all those varied works. What depended on rules from varying products? I can think of one thing. Once the Tome of Magic came out lots of things referrred to it. Anything else? I don't have every product they produced, so I could have missed something? Now 3e > hasn't even been completely released yet, and the golden era of hoping > to be able to go to a convention and know you can play with just the > core rules, or being able to run a campaign without n annoying whiners > complaining about having bought 24 supplemental books and not being > able to use them is _already_ planned to go away. So your problem here is the whiners, right? > The problem is that we were told that they'd learned their lesson and > would lay off (for at least a little while). I have never read any such thing from Wizards. I admit I may very well have missed it. Can you direct me to a source? What I have seen them say, though, is that the rate of such releases will slow down. > Ah, but what can WotC sell if not for billions of rule books? Well, > there are adventures, campaign settings, etc. Which they have already stated don't sell that well. Which is why they are cutting back on selling adventures, and are going with only one fully supported campaign setting. If these things sold well we would see more of them. > Now, if the planned > works _really_ do contain no additional mechanics, that would be > fine. It'll be similar to compilations of magic items or spells, > which have little impact on the way people play the game. But with > psionics on the list, I have little faith. And thank the gods for that. Not everyone wants it that way. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:10:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... > > 5. a rumoured book on psionics > > Not rumored. It seems to be almost a done deal. Hell, its listed on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786918357/ericnoahsunoffdu/103-13576 28-3707045 Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:46:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Review (part 3) - The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry to take so long to finish up the review, but here it is, the final=20 part. (just when you thought it'd never happen)=20 * Chapter 9: Adventuring=20 This chapter is a mix of various information, some that is obviously going t= o=20 get more attention in the DMG (such as experience) and other tidbits which=20 didn't fit into previous chapters (such as carrying capacity). All in all,=20 it's choked full of useful info so I'm not complaining.=20 Since most of the section focuses on carrying capacity and movement, they ar= e=20 basically the best part of the chapter. I like the new encumbrance system fo= r=20 it's simplicity. I was nevery really a fan of encumbrace, but this system=20 doesn't seem as annoying as others I've seen.=20 The movement system is also handled well. The fact that there is now a table= =20 telling you how many feet you can cover in a round and minute, and how many=20 miles you can cover in an hour and a day is a resource I've been wanting=20 forever. No more 'guessing' how much land a party can cover in day, just fin= d=20 their average speed, and you know how far they can go. The addition of the=20 table showing the distance various mounts and vehicles can cover is a nice=20 touch too.=20 As for the rest of the chapter, the exploration section covers marching=20 order, preparing for adventures, and even gives a table that show just how=20 long a light source will last, such as torches, a candles, and even various=20 spells. Not too shabby, considering so many DMs forgot to keep track of how=20 long a torch will burn and so on. I know I'm guilty of it.=20 Lastly, the experience and levels section covers advancing in levels and som= e=20 of the benefits such as your attack and saving throws increasing, gaining=20 more skill points, increasing ability scores and so forth. The treasure=20 section covers splitting up treasure and magical items, and even starting a=20 party fund for those times you just have to make a massive donation to templ= e=20 or shine to bring back your companions.=20 The last little section, other rewards, covers alternative rewards. Which is= =20 more or less a teaser for DMs dying to get their hands on the new DMG.=20 * Chapter 10: Magic=20 Since I'm such a spellcaster junkie, this has to be one of my favorite=20 chapters. It comes a little bit of everything from what a spell is, to=20 counterspells, to spell preperation and then some.=20 It's hard to pick one favorite part to highlight, but I think the most=20 interesting part is counterspells. Countering magical effects in previous=20 editions was kind of hazy, and often times reduced to using Dispel Magic, bu= t=20 the new method is very concise and adds an interesting new element to=20 spellcasting. However, I would make one minor tweak to rules, and allow=20 spellcasters to counter a spell with any spell of the same school and level,= =20 rather than it having to be the exact same spell. That makes it a little mor= e=20 flexible which means more players would consider it.=20 Among the sections of note are the one on concentration and how it ties into= =20 spellcasting, the section on magical writings and spellbooks, the section on= =20 preparing spells, and even the section on aiming spells. An interesting fact= =20 about aiming spells is that ranged touch and ray attacks can be the subject=20 of feats such as Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. Yet another way to=20 showcase the unity of the rules and how funsome of the combos can be to=20 explore.=20 The only major gripe I have about this section is the lack of info on=20 familiars. With the MM two months away, some sample familiars and their stat= s=20 would have been greatly appreciated, but such a minor detail as that can be=20 overlooked for now, as they've more than made up for such oversights in the=20 next chapter.=20 * Chapter 11: Spells=20 This has to be the biggest chapter in the book, and why shouldn't it be=20 considering it contains over 500 spells! Plenty of old favorites revisited=20 such as Burning Hands and Chain Lighting, and plenty of new spells to keep=20 veteran spellcasters interested such a the various cantrips new spells such=20 as True Strike and Mage Armor (two of my favorite new spells).=20 I could easily fill several pages talking about all the spells, but since I=20 think part of the fun in that is reading them for the first time when you ge= t=20 the new PH I would spoil it. Instead I'll talk about my other favorite part=20 of this chapter, the individual class spell lists. These are simply great!=20 The best part is how they mixed and matched the divine and arcane spells for= =20 some lists, such as giving Bards healing spells and giving Rangers spells=20 like alarm. The domain lists are great too, but I would have liked to see=20 more of them. But hey, that's something I can handle with a little spare tim= e=20 and my 2e Tome of Magic ;)=20 * Miscellany=20 Well, in addition to the normal chapters, there is a great glossary in the=20 back of the book, a character sheet that IMO is much better than the package= d=20 ones for 10$, and the oh-so-fun 2000 survival kit which includes a partial=20 Challenge Rating table, a few monsters such as a Ghoul, Red Dragon, and an=20 Skeleton, a few magic items, and even a do-it-yourself dungeon. More teaster= s=20 for the DMG and MM... and they're working quite well because I'm dying to se= e=20 them! So all and all on a scale of 1-10 I'd say the new PH is definately a 9=BD.=20 There are a few things here and there that could have been a little better,=20 but not much. Most of my complaints are personal gripes not overall system o= r=20 book flaws, and so if I were unbias it would easily be a 10. To help give yo= u=20 an idea of my scale, I'd say the 2e PHB is probably around a 6=BD.=20 I will admit up until I last month, I was still worried 3e would be the=20 critical hit that finally took down the great D&D system. But after seeing=20 this book, and the effort that was put into it to make it not only a great=20 system, storytelling tool, and work of art, I'm proud to say I see great=20 things in D&Ds future.=20 No, it's certainly not your old D&D, but that's the best part. It's a change= =20 for the better. It's time to pick up those dice and character sheets, and=20 make some new memories, earn some new bragging rights, tell some great=20 stories, and have a blast doing it. Thank you WotC for breathing new life=20 into a dying game.=20 As for the rest of you, onward to adventure! ;)=20 -Deldain =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:15:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Clay Postma Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 5:50:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << Not rumored. It seems to be almost a done deal. At least they split Psionics out of the PHB. Hate them. >> Thank goodness for that. I don't mind them having a Psionics system for those who want it but I don't care for them. And by putting them in a separate book it better maintains the "optional" classification rather than simply putting them in an appendix of the DMG or the Players Handbook (where everyone says 'but it has it in the handbook so it must have been meant to be part of the system'). froggy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:46:24 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: Prestige paladins,was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Master's Pawn wrote: > > Well, isn't this part of the whole new attitude towards multi-classes? If youhave a fighter, who wants to joint the Knights of ______, he 'has to provehimself worthy, etc." Well, that fighter converts alignment through role play to LG (maybe a variation of attonment) and then makes the switch add a level of Paladin instead of the next fighter. All you would need to do is add the one or two "Feats" they specialize in and voila, OD&D Paladin. > > Instead of killing ourselves making up new classes, think of what can be achieved through the more flexible multiclassing. I think a lot of us have the old system so ingrained in attitudes, that we look for "new classes" instead fo new combinations. > I agree that the new system works really well for that. You could do a paladin exactly like you suggest and you would have one very similar to the OD&D paladin. The paladin as it is presented in 3E however is a class on its own to begin with. It is a class that you need no particular expertise/experience to join. The whole feel of the OD&D paladin was that it was something you worked hard to get to. I don't think we have to work terribly hard creating all sorts of new classes. I just happen to like the idea that prestige classes have some pretty stringent requirements that it generally requires significant experience to obtain. That seems to match the idea for the OD&D paladin. I must admit I will probably keep the 3E paladin in some way depending on how close I decide to play my next campaign to the OD&D feel. I had long ago decided that the "generic" paladin in the Companion rules was not nearly fleshed out enough and I created various knightly orders affiliated with different churches/Immortals. They all still required their candidates to have reached a certain level of expertise (9th level) and pass certain tests and challenges before admitting them and giving them the appropriate priestly training. Instead of the translating the "generic" OD&D paladin I will probably actually translate these religious orders. I may even take the opportunity to make them all a little more unique.... Ray ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:43:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: arminath_wynter Subject: The Humanoid Spellcasters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good eve all of ye. 'Tis been a few seasons since my last visit and once again I find myself with a few minutes of peace to collect my thoughts. On my last venture to the choked jungles of Northern Davania the smallish group of adventurers I had "attached" myself to had several harrowing encounters with members of a particulat tribe of Orcs, methinks they escaped all the way 'cross the Sea of Dread from the Orc's Head Peninsula and the Dragon Overlord that dwells therein. In particular, the groups were led by shaman and wokan. As for myself, I know not much of the matters of savage workers of the Arts, but a few oddities worth mentioning are on the tip of my mind. Most seasoned adventurers know that savage spellcasters are restricted in their selection of spells, probably because of their limited minds and survive-at-all-costs lifestyle. (1) Sadly this is not the case. I've gleaned from observing a wokan for a few days that his selection of magic is limited only by what he can gain from raiding and trading. His main selection of magic is based on useful and flashy spells to cow any that would try to take his place, such as apprentices. (2) Shaman and wokan also have a slightly different selection of weapons and armor that their civilized counterparts. Both types may use any weapon considered a tribal weapon, in addition to the favored weapons of their tribal Immortal (if the tribe has one). Shaman may well wear any armor available unless their tribal Immortal prohibits certain types, while wokan are still unable to wear armor. (3) Because of their increased mental capacity (4), shaman and wokan usually act as 'advisors' to their tribe's chief or king. Because growing up in a society where you move up in the pecking order by eliminating the competition would take time away from learning to harness the magical and divine, shaman and wokan are more secretive and behind the scenes, pulling strings on puppet rulers. Savage spellcasters are prohibited from ever learning and casting any spells that could raise or revive the dead, as humanoid society thrives on elimination of the weak. Although most humanoid spellcasters seem weak, many that have survived are the smartest and most powerful. (5) There ye have what little knowledge I've gained. Mayhap I'll have time enough to study them over the next few months. 'Till then may your spells strike true and your blade never need leave its sheath. Arminath Wynter (1) Because they must survive their tough lifestyle, all humanoid spellcasters gain 1d6+2 hitpoints per level. (2) The spells listed in the Rules Cyclopedia p216 are the most commonly known for humanoid spellcasters. Unfortunately, it is a gross misconception of humans that humanoids are limited to just those spells. (3) In addition to their normal selection of weapons and armor, shaman and wokan should be allowed to use any weapon considered a tribal weapon or favored by the Immotal Patron of the tribe (if any). (4) Humanoid spellcasters must have a minimum intelligence or wisdom of 9 for their respective class, and many have higher scores. See the Rules Cyclopedia p214. Consider a creature race's average wisdom to be equal to it's intelligence. (5) The Rules Cyclopedia p216 lists the maximum levels of shaman and wokan of various races. Members of exceptionally high wisdom (for shaman) and intelligence (for wokan) should be able to achieve 1 bonus level for a score of 13-15, 2 bonus levels for a score of 16 or 17 and 3 bonus levels for a score of 18 or more. So a Kobold shaman with a 13 wisdom would have a maximum level of 7 instead of 6 because of his high wisdom score. _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:17:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau wrote: > I agree on the Order of the Griffon -- and IMC, I'm also going to have the > prestige class Paladin available to most of them. > How does the Cult of Halav rate? And if they do, don't the two churches? I seem to picture our friends in the Cult being outside of the mainstream enough that a Prestige class may be warranted. Still, I'll have to take a look at it. Probably depends on how I decide to play it. To be honest, the Prestige class idea for it occurred to me because I picture the actual clergy of the Cult as having been clerics already and that is where they were originally exposed to the teaching that either: a) led them "astray", or b) led them to the "true path". > Hmmm. I was going to create Magian Fire Worshippers using the Arabian > Adventures rules, or use fire elementalist rules when such appear for 3E, > but this might be better. Actually, now that you mention the Arabian Adventures, I think I might have to re-think that. I got a copy of that just a couple months ago and haven't had a chance to look at it. Great idea though! > >Glantri - Order of the Radiance > > Good thought. That hadn't occured to me. It struck me a very appropriate to a prestige class. I hadn't thought of it at first either, but maybe.... > How about the Fellowship of the Claymore? Great idea! > >Minrothad - Sea Elves > > Should the sea elves be a prestige class or a whole new race (possibly > with a different preferred class and so on)? Absolutely! Should have been clearer with that one. I was thinking more along the line of a sailor/marine class that is quite highly trained. I originally thought of it for the sea elves but I recall that the guidelines for prestige classes "strongly" suggested that sort of restriction not be used. Maybe it just originated from them. Wait a second, am I mixing these elves up with the aquatic elves? Which ones are the sailors and which are the mer-elves? I don't have the Gaz within reach. > >Shires - Hin Master (especially good for monk and sorceror class) > > MONK? I was thinking of taking the Gaz write-up and tossing in some druid > bits and that would work well. Where do you get monkish aspects? I guess that one comes a little more from my own campaign ideas instead. My Shires are indeed still the happy-go-lucky places they should be, but there is an underlying tone of seriousness and discipline that can be achieved. I always pictured the Hin masters as sort of mystic/wizards. Not so much concentration on the martial arts stuff, but that sort of Zen -like mind set and self-discipline. I know, its a bit of a reach. > > - Hin Pirate > > I dunno. What differentiates them from any other seahin? You're right with this one too. Maybe it would be better explored in the vein of a privateer of sorts. After all, who says the Council of Sheriffs has to give a Letter of Marque to just anyone. As the saying goes, "Some restrictions may apply." > >Ethengar - Hakomon > > - Shaman > > - Horse Warrior > > I was thinking they were all Barbarians or Clerics, myself. Yep, Barbarians for the Horse Warrior is probably a better choice. And the Hakomon is probably just a wizard. The way the shaman works though makes me wonder whether the cleric is appropriate. Maybe a whole new class, not just a prestige one. I guess it depends on how much you want to play up the differences between doing the spirit work stuff and being a regular cleric. > >Robrenn - Druid > > Why not the 3E default druid? Again, that is probably the best way to do it. > >Serraine! - Gnomish Engineer > > Why not just a new skill? Could be done, but I was thinking of these guys more as the masters of the craft so to speak. A new skill is most definitely needed though. I'll have to see how that one works out. > > - Top Ballista Pilot > > Mmmmmaybe. I think a new skill would be enough, personally, although > skygnomes might merit a modified racial write-up. The skygnomes need a modified write-up, I agree. The Top Ballista Pilot I think is a particularly appropriate use of the prestige class. The level of training required I would think gives it fairly rigorous requirements, and the fact that there are members of many races who are Pilots shows that it need not be restricted in that way, which struck me as suitable after reading the Prestige class article. Depending on how far you want to go with it of course, a "Pilot Gnomish Contraption" skill may be enough. ;) > >references to an obscure school of magic known as chronomancy.... Yet > >another Prestige class maybe, and his key to perpetuating the rule of > >his descendants.... > OK, I think you win the prize for figuring out how to make the > Chronomancer work ... Glad you like it! I've been trying to figure a way to tie it in to the OD&D Sphere of Time for a while but with little success. > >Oh, and something that jumped out at me right away.... The Assassin > >Prestige class coming in the DMG.... Does that scream Sindhi Thug to > >anyone, or is it just me? > I was thinking that Monks in the Known World would be almost exclusively > Sindi. I'm inclined to agree with you on that call, although I may extend that to Yav as well depending on how I use Yav in the future. They're pretty pacifist, aren't they? Oh, and don't forget Ochalea! That might work for monks too. Hope this stuff inspires! Ray ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:34:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ray Brooks Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "David S. Leland" wrote: > > I think some of these, e.g. dervishes should be new classes, not > prestige classes. Likewise, I think some like the hakomon may be > just a standard class with certain developmental guidelines, or > otherwise new classes, but not prestige. I definitely want > paladins/avengers/knights as prestige, but I've always felt that > druids make sense as a class to start with, even on Mystara. The > thought that all druids are converted clerics seems silly to me. It > suggests that there is no culture or organization of druids, > otherwise surely there would be apprentices/acolytes within their > ranks. Come to think of it, you're probably right about the Dervishes. A regular class on their own is probably more appropriate. And the hakomon is just a slight variation on the wizard. A sorceror might even be better for it, but a prestige class is likely unnecessary. The druids too. It really doesn't make sense to have the conversion thing happening. Paladins, Avengers and Knights are well on their way to being translated though! Now I just have to figure out how particular I want to get. How different is a Paladin of Kagyar from a Paladin of Halav...? Maybe I've opened a can of worms here.... ;) > I'd been thinking about the Order of the Griffon. How > convenient! There's already a rule that you have to be 5th level to > join. Anyway, I'm eager to make prestige classes for all sorts of > things, but I'm going to wait for the DMG before I start. Yeah, they do have that 5th level requirement, don't they? There is no restriction by class though, which is suggested in the prestige class guidelines article. Not much work required here! Ray ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:46:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Review (part 3) - The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 9:01:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: << The only major gripe I have about this section is the lack of info on familiars. With the MM two months away, some sample familiars and their stats would have been greatly appreciated, but such a minor detail as that can be overlooked for now, as they've more than made up for such oversights in the next chapter. >> You can find the stats on Familiars in the "2000 Survival Kit" section in the back of the PHB, page 10. James A. Mishler Magister Mystaros Mystara Lives! Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:20:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Porphyrogenetus Subject: Re: Review (part 3) - The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Btw, Deldain, your reviews have been most interesting, informative, and = clearly well-thought out. I just got the 3E PH today, and have started = reading it. Even in the (few) cases where I'm not finding full agreement = with your opinion on something, which is pretty rare, you've made good = poinds, and your extensive and well-organized review has been very = useful and is much appreciated. Just wanted to say that - folks don't get enough kudos on the list for = good work sometimes. Perhaps someone should post the full review on the = web somewhere. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:25:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would be more inclined to go back to the _Wrath of the Immortals_ boxed set as a guide for establishing Mystaran priesthoods. Using Khoronus as an example, we have the following data from WotI: Hierarch, Sphere of Time (publicly known as such), Neutral alignment. Clerics and followers may be of any alignment. (PWA II: Has following in Darokin) Special clerical powers: +2 to individual initiative. ***** For a 3E conversion, I would proceed as follows: Immortal (Deity) characteristics: Alignment Neutral (Good tendencies). Typical followers (reference to PWA II): Any non-evil beings. Khoronus is particularly popular in Darokin. Domains: Time, Good, Water. Time is a new domain yet to be defined -- it would probably include the 3E equivalents of various Chronomancer spells, and its associated special ability would be a free "Improved Initiative" feat. Good is included for alignment reasons, while Water is included because that is the element associated with the Sphere of Time. Note that a Mystaran cleric who selects an elemental domain may select any of the other three elements as the opposed element, as all Mystaran elementals are in some sort of hostile relationship with all three of the other elements. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:25:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-16 4:21:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dragonier@MAILANDNEWS.COM writes: > Funny you mention that.... I was reading the Prestige class guidelines > in Dragon a couple of days back and a few things came rattling out of my > head. > > Karameikos - Order of the Griffon > - Cult of Halav I think we can make that one a simple cleric variant. > Ylaruam - Dervish That one should be a complete new class -- why not be a Dervish from level 1? > - Fire Mage Actually we should probably come up with elemental specialties, each of which would have to be "paid for" by foreswearing the use of spells of 1-3 of the other elements. > Glantri - Order of the Radiance > - the Secret Crafts > - Free Wolves (PC4) > - various mystic orders Mystics would seem to equate to 3E Monks. > Alfheim - Treekeepers > - disciples of the Way of the Tree What is the difference between these last two? > Rockhome - Dwarven Artificers (hammer chants anyone?) > - Dwarven Engineer > Darokin - Guild Merchant > - DDC Diplomat > Minrothad - Merchant Prince > - Sea Elves They are a subrace, not a class, as near as I can tell. > Shires - Hin Master (especially good for monk and sorceror class) > - Hin Pirate > Thyatis - Foresters I would make this one a basic class, available to all Known World elves as well as select members of other races. > - Retebius Air Fleet > - Knight of the Air > - Gladiator > - Senator > - Rake (? a special guild for rogues maybe) I am already working on defining Rakes as a separate class. Since the Sneak Attack ability (3E equivalent of Backstab) is built into the class from level 1, potential Rakes must be steered onto a different path from the beginning. > Alphatia - Marine/Airman > - Alphatian Courtier (could Haldemar have a few levels of > this one?) > - Alphatian Councillor (big requirements for this one - it is > the ruling council after all) > Ethengar - Hakomon > - Shaman > - Horse Warrior I am not sure that any of the Ethengar classes would be prestige classes, as Ethengarians could conceivably adopt any of these classes from level 1. > Northern - Skald > Reaches - Witch Ditto for these Northern Reaches classes. The Skald would seem to be a minor Bard variant, while the Witch would be a new spellcasting class -- or perhaps we could use the Adept NPC class, depending on just what the DMG has to say about it. > Robrenn - Druid By the rules given in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia I would have been inclined to create a "Balancer" prestige class. However, since it seems obvious that Robrenn clerics could be members of this class from level 1, I would make it a full standard class. More on this one later. > - Druidic Knight > Serraine! - Gnomish Engineer > - Top Ballista Pilot > > Some ideas I've been toying with for a Blackmoor campaign: > - Spy of the Fetch > - Technomancer > - Medium/Oracle (related to Ethengar Shaman, but from before > changes to the Spirit World from GRoF) > > And to revive the flavour of the OD&D Mystara that I miss so much, I > have considered not allowing the regular Paladin and Druid classes > (maybe not even the Ranger - a re-write of the Thyatian Forester maybe?) > and instead make them into Prestige classes, so they are once again > goals to work towards instead of starting places. A list of Prestige > classes based on the old rules might look something like... > > - Paladin In keeping with the kit name given in the Red Steel boxed set, I would call this Prestige class the "Defender". > - Knight I am not sure that I would bother with a prestige class for this one -- the abilities they have in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia seem rather lame. I would dispense with the prestige class but keep the orders of knighthood for roleplaying purposes. Every bonus they could receive is either social in nature or can be taken care of by the bonus feats that a fighter already receives. > - Avenger Definitely a good prestige class candidate -- in most respects it would be a variant of the "Defender" class. > - Druid I commented on this one earlier. > And what about the Paths to Immortality? Maybe that could be partly > based on Prestige classes as well. They would be very difficult to > qualify for, but once you have your first level as a Paragon, Polymath, > Dynast, or Epic Hero, you could consider yourself "on the path" to > Immortality, so to speak. Of course the really big stuff would be left > for any epic conclusion to your quest. Maybe one of the requirements > for Immortality would be attaining a certain level in the quest > class.... I don't know if I like that, but its a possibility. I have > visions of a powerful wizard who has ruled a dominion for many years and > has just managed to obtain his first level as a Dynast (in my campaign, > class restrictions on Paths were dropped). With the guidance of his > Patron, he has just uncovered an ancient scroll with some strange > references to an obscure school of magic known as chronomancy.... Yet > another Prestige class maybe, and his key to perpetuating the rule of > his descendants.... I can definitely see the Paths to Immortality as potential prestige classes. > Oh, and something that jumped out at me right away.... The Assassin > Prestige class coming in the DMG.... Does that scream Sindhi Thug to > anyone, or is it just me? I can easily see that one. The only thing left for us to work out would be the lower level Thugs who cannot possibly qualify for the Assassin prestige class. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:25:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Darokin Religion: Part 1 of 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI -- PWA II lists the following Immortals as having major followings in Darokin: Asterius, Ixion, Khoronus, Koryis, Odin, the Twelve Watchers, Valerias, and Zirchev. In addition, WotI and one of the Immortal level modules suggest that Darokin has a high degree of religious tolerance and that new cults spring up there frequently. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:48:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:25 PM 8/16/00, David Knott wrote: Note that a Mystaran cleric who selects an elemental domain may select any of the other three elements as the opposed element, as all Mystaran elementals are in some sort of hostile relationship with all three of the other elements. For Mystara I would use the OD&D Rules for elemental opposition (RC p. 264): Air has dominance over water. Water has dominance over Fire. Fire has dominance over Earth. Earth has dominance over Air. Air and Fire are in opposition. Earth and Water are in opposition. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:56:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Ierendi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-16 4:21:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, megst19+@PITT.EDU writes: > Former List Ogre Leroy proposed an alternate Ierendi GAZ when the list > first started, but no one has run with it yet - I'm sure some other folks > may want to lend a hand on such a project. I beg to differ -- somebody (who I think is still on this list) posted a Web page that offered an alternate Ierendian history that was very well thought out. Unfortunately, I lost the URL for it. That alternate history does not totally eliminate the "touristy" aspects, but makes them part of a larger cover-up of the "true" history. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:56:49 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-16 4:44:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > >Robrenn - Druid > > Why not the 3E default druid? One reason would be that OD&D Druids (or "Balancers") would have a wider choice of spells but more limited weapons and special abilities than a 3E druid. > Mmmmmaybe. I think a new skill would be enough, personally, although > skygnomes might merit a modified racial write-up. That is definitely true -- in fact, gnomes in general would merit a modified racial write-up. Standard Mystaran gnomes have an affinity for the element of Earth, not for Illusion. > I was thinking that Monks in the Known World would be almost > exclusively Sindi. I don't think I would go that far. Sind might be the only place where a character would have a choice of several Monk/Mystic orders to join, but several other nations do have at least one such order of their own. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:22:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection In-Reply-To: <7d.92e6baf.26ccca91@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:56 8/17/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >I don't think I would go that far. Sind might be the only place where a >character would have a choice of several Monk/Mystic orders to join, >but several other nations do have at least one such order of their own. In the Known World/Eastern Brun? Where? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:04:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-17 1:50:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > >I don't think I would go that far. Sind might be the only place where a > >character would have a choice of several Monk/Mystic orders to join, > >but several other nations do have at least one such order of their own. > > In the Known World/Eastern Brun? Where? Ylaruam, Glantri, and the Minrothad Guilds are the nations that come immediately to mind. Moving further east, I would add Thothia on the Isle of Dawn and possibly Ochalea. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 02:04:37 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3e Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-17 1:42:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > For Mystara I would use the OD&D Rules for elemental opposition (RC > p. 264): > > Air has dominance over water. > Water has dominance over Fire. > Fire has dominance over Earth. > Earth has dominance over Air. > Air and Fire are in opposition. > Earth and Water are in opposition. So should a Mystaran cleric with an elemental domain have the ability to turn/destroy elementals from his opposed element or from his opposed element? As near as I can tell the only element that should be precluded for that purpose is the element that has dominance over the selected element. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:18:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <10.1198bc6.26ccda75@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you want to treat the clerics the way the elementals are treated, I would give clerics the ability to turn/destroy elementals over which their patron element has dominance. Their more hated enemies would be of the opposing sphere, but neither would have dominance over the other. The cleric may suffer a negative modifier to reaction rolls with elementals and creatures aligned with that element, since that happens between elementals. -4, or -8 if in addition one is evil and the other good. At 11:04 PM 8/16/00, David Knott wrote: In a message dated 2000-08-17 1:42:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > For Mystara I would use the OD&D Rules for elemental opposition (RC > p. 264): > > Air has dominance over water. > Water has dominance over Fire. > Fire has dominance over Earth. > Earth has dominance over Air. > Air and Fire are in opposition. > Earth and Water are in opposition. So should a Mystaran cleric with an elemental domain have the ability to turn/destroy elementals from his opposed element or from his opposed element? As near as I can tell the only element that should be precluded for that purpose is the element that has dominance over the selected element. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:27:11 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Ierendi In-Reply-To: <5a.983bbd1.26ccca93@aol.com>; from Kaviyd@AOL.COM on Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 12:56:51AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 12:56:51AM -0400, David Knott wrote: > In a message dated 2000-08-16 4:21:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > megst19+@PITT.EDU writes: > > > Former List Ogre Leroy proposed an alternate Ierendi GAZ when the list > > first started, but no one has run with it yet - I'm sure some other folks > > may want to lend a hand on such a project. > > I beg to differ -- somebody (who I think is still on this list) posted a Web > page that offered an alternate Ierendian history that was very well thought > out. Unfortunately, I lost the URL for it. That alternate history does not > totally eliminate the "touristy" aspects, but makes them part of a larger > cover-up of the "true" history. Surprisingly enough there's an alternate history in the Ierendi section on dnd.starflung.com :) http://dnd.starflung.com/ierendi2.html It's cool, I likes... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:26:35 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Beau wrote: > > What problem? I find I have to buy a hell of a lot more to run a Mystara >campaign than I did for any other setting or for any of the other >incarnations of D&D. True, but that also depends on where in Mystara one runs their campaign, and its overall scope. Technically, all a person really needs is the Rules Cyclopedia to run OD&D. The Gazetteers provide TSR's interpretation of the various Mystaran nations, which anyone may freely use, or not use, as they wish. Also, one could focus on one specific nation, such as the Five Shires (your neat Shires campaign comes to mind here) - all you really need for that would be the RC, and GAZ 8 (The Five Shires). Also, not everyone is going to run WotI in their campaigns (I might not), or have their characters attain Immortality, so the whole WotI boxed set isn't really essential, either. I guess I'm saying that, considering game systems, OD&D Mystara requires less shelf space to get a campaign running than D&D 3E will require. Please note that I'm not saying 3E sucks, or that the effort isn't worth doing at all, only that I have concerns as to the direction the whole project is taking. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:29:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Love halflings and they'll love you back MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Who was it that dubbed me the list's Five Shires expert? Check out the example male names for halflings in the 3E PHB ... I laughed my head off. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:35:35 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Your own Hin-like behavior did! I saw yesterday you thought having Hin be more like kender would be a good idea, I'm suprised you didn't think that was 5 shires sacrilege! (After all kender are sort of, well, ditzy.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:41:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Beau wrote: > You're aware that WotC is a publishing business, right? What else would >you think they'd do? Of course, they will publish books - I'd rather they spent their energies writing adventures, that's all. IMO, adventures are the one thing everyone can use. >NONE of that was ever forced on me. I'm not saying that WotC is strong-arming people into pouring their life savings into these products (my exaggeration, I admit 8-P), and I will happily admit that I have bought almost every Mystara product made. Will I ever use it all? Unlikely - I'm a bit of a pack-rat, though. Hell, it's taken my adventuring party the better part of three years to advance to 5th level (gaming every two weeks); at this rate, I won't need the Immortal rules for another, oh, 18 years or so :-). I guess what I was trying to say, albeit not in the best fashion, is that I have trouble believing the advertisments for 3E, in that they are promising a less cumbersome game overall. Sure, some of the rules *are* a lot simpler than they used to be (to give them credit), but when I weigh everything I know about it on the balance, their definition of "great taste, less filling" and mine probably don't mesh. When I think "less cumbersome", "you won't need all those book anymore", and so on, I think "Rules Cyclopedia", or "this is the one rulebook you'll ever need". One question, for example: given that the FR sourcebook is optional, for those people who like that world, will the guidelines for those added feats and whatnot (which IIRC will be presented therein) be available elsewhere, so that 3E players who want the added functionality will able to access it without having to buy a book, 3/4 of which they will never use? Anyhow, 'nuff said, and I apologise if I seemed insulting; that wasn't my intention. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:49:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/17/00 9:34:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > Subj: Re: [MYSTARA] Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... > Date: 8/17/00 9:34:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time > From: au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA (Geoff Gander) > Sender: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM (Mystara) > Reply-to: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM (Mystara) > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > Beau wrote: > > > > What problem? I find I have to buy a hell of a lot more to run a > Mystara > >campaign than I did for any other setting or for any of the other > >incarnations of D&D. > > True, but that also depends on where in Mystara one runs their campaign, > and its overall scope. Technically, all a person really needs is the > Rules Cyclopedia to run OD&D. The Gazetteers provide TSR's interpretation > of the various Mystaran nations, which anyone may freely use, or not use, > as they wish. Also, one could focus on one specific nation, such as the > Five Shires (your neat Shires campaign comes to mind here) - all you > really need for that would be the RC, and GAZ 8 (The Five Shires). Also, > not everyone is going to run WotI in their campaigns (I might not), or > have their characters attain Immortality, so the whole WotI boxed set > isn't really essential, either. I guess I'm saying that, considering game > systems, OD&D Mystara requires less shelf space to get a campaign running > than D&D 3E will require. Please note that I'm not saying 3E sucks, or > that the effort isn't worth doing at all, only that I have concerns as to > the direction the whole project is taking. > > Geoff > Geoff, aren't you forgeting what you just wrote? > Technically, all a person really needs is the > Rules Cyclopedia to run OD&D. Given enough creativity, a GM can run a campaign with ONLY the rules. Hell, an experienced gamer may even create his own rules, but are we really saying, "I wish it didn't cost so much to see what cool stuff TSR/Wotc has put inside!" ? (Or maybe we just catch that "I want to own the complete set" syndrome.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 06:54:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: <98.900002b.26cd4427@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:35 8/17/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >Your own Hin-like behavior did! >I saw yesterday you thought having Hin be >more like kender would be a good idea, I'm >suprised you didn't think that was 5 shires >sacrilege! (After all kender are sort of, well, ditzy.) They're just misunderstood. That's just how they behave as yallara. Then they get a few years older, move back to their clan's area, start a garden, marry a nice hometown hin, stick their trophies in a cellar and sit on the front porch, and start telling stories of their adventures. I think most human college students act an awful like kender to begin with ... As for the 3E PHB compromise between kender and hin, I think it's a pretty good choice. Playing groups can still have a distinctly Tolkeinesque race if they like, but halflings now can also fit into most of the "little people" roles from world folklore. I'll be adding the tweaked physical descriptions to my next Shires game (presumably occuring) this week. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Ierendi >I beg to differ -- somebody (who I think is still on this list) posted a Web >page that offered an alternate Ierendian history that was very well thought >out. Unfortunately, I lost the URL for it. That alternate history does not >totally eliminate the "touristy" aspects, but makes them part of a larger >cover-up of the "true" history. IIRC, that was Sharon Dornhoff, who added some interesting elements to Ierendian history to tone down to "Magnum PI" aspects of it. It's on Shawn's site somewhere, I think. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:57:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back Beau wrote: > > Who was it that dubbed me the list's Five Shires expert? > Check out the example male names for halflings in the 3E PHB ... I laughed >my head off. Oh really? Share some! :-) Bumbly Wumblebottom? Jerry Fumblefingers? Bilbo Baggit? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:07:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 9:58:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > They're just misunderstood. That's just how they behave as=20 yallara.=20 > As for the 3E PHB compromise between kender and hin, I think it's a=20 > pretty good choice.=20 > I'll be adding the tweaked physical descriptions to my next Shires game=20 I don't have the new PHB yet, so maybe I jumped the gun. So you're=20 saying the new halfling description is a hybrid that has some kender- like qualities? How did they change the physical description? [Do I even remember kender right=E2=80=94supremly obnoxious, sure to irritate, nosy,=20 inquisitive to the point of someone battering them senseless or was=20 this just the character from the early Krynn novels?] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 07:20:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: <78.9132436.26cd4bb7@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 10:07 8/17/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >In a message dated 8/17/00 9:58:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM= =20 >writes: >> As for the 3E PHB compromise between kender and hin, I think it's a= =20 >> pretty good choice.=20 >> I'll be adding the tweaked physical descriptions to my next Shires game= =20 >I don't have the new PHB yet, so maybe I jumped the gun. So you're=20 >saying the new halfling description is a hybrid that has some kender- >like qualities? How did they change the physical description? [Do I even >remember kender right=E2=80=94supremly obnoxious, sure to irritate, nosy,= =20 >inquisitive to the point of someone battering them senseless or was=20 >this just the character from the early Krynn novels?] >=E2=80=94Shawn J. That's how the main Dragonlance Kender (and by extension, many of the players who use Kender PCs) was. The 3E halflings have a bonus to saving throws against fear, are typically slimmer than previous versions and have skulls that are elongated back away from their face. While many of them could pass for human children much of the time, close examination shows they are distinctly an alien species. (And the elves look even more inhuman than they ever have, which is a great move, IMO, and fits in very well with my Karameikos campaign, which emphasizes the mystery of the magical world.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:28:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Re: Ierendi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > IIRC, that was Sharon Dornhoff, who added some interesting elements to > Ierendian history to tone down to "Magnum PI" aspects of it. It's on > Shawn's site somewhere, I think. Yes!!! Finally I've got an excuse to play the Magnum P.I. themesong as we start every game session! Erik :) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:44:33 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 10:32:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > That's how the main Dragonlance Kender (and by extension, many of= =20 > (And the elves look even more inhuman than they ever have, which is a gre= at > move, IMO, and fits in very well with my Karameikos campaign, which > emphasizes the mystery of the magical world.) > =20 =20 So, the new PHB makes no mention of them BEHAVING like kender? (That would be my preference, for a default halfling anyway.) But I too=20 have never been able to shy too far away from the mysterious and=20 somewhat aloof Tolkienesque depiction of elves IMC. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:49:48 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... >Geoff, aren't you forgeting what you just wrote? Err...I might have been. It's been a bad week IRL...... >Given enough creativity, a GM can run a campaign with ONLY the >rules. Hell, an experienced gamer may even create his own rules, >but are we really saying, "I wish it didn't cost so much to see what >cool stuff TSR/Wotc has put inside!" ? (Or maybe we just catch >that "I want to own the complete set" syndrome.) I could be a bit of both. I must admit that I am curious about 3E (this is weird - talking about it as though it were some sort of drug or other habit: "You know, I was always so curious about motorised bungee-jumping, but, you know, it's not the sort of thing one mentions in public." - but I digress). And I was also curious enough that I picked up a free booklet describing 3E at my nearest gaming store - haven't had the time to read it yet. I will also say that I read all of Deldain's (IIRC) reviews of the 3E PHB with interest. To avoid going into circles, I guess I had some misconceptions as to what 3E would be, based on the promotional site I visited a while back, and listening to what was being said about it. From my (admittedly biased) perspective, I see some improvements over 2E, but I still feel that the scale at which they were made, does not go quite so far as the "hype" (for lack of a better word) would have me believe. Yes, it's advertising, and I know it will likely do a good job bringing new gamers into the hobby, but I'm one of those "truth in advertising" people. It's like saying a new car's fuel economy is such that it can go 40 km per litre of gas, when in truth it only goes 30. Sure, it's better than the 20 km/L model, but IMO it's still misleading. If I'm not mistaken, I think that was part of what Alan Shutko and Mike Harvey were saying, too. At any rate, I wouldn't want to start a flame war over it. :) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:53:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Need some XP help Hi all! Quick question - if the XP award for 2HD critters in OD&D is 20, how much is awarded per asterisk? What are the rates for 5HD beasties? Much appreciated! Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:54:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Ierendi Erik wrote: >Yes!!! Finally I've got an excuse to play the Magnum P.I. themesong as we start every game session! Erik, you're a sick, sick puppy. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:05:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Need some XP help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Don't have the Cyclopedia, so I referenced my=20 old DM's screen (I assume it'll be the same). It lists it as 5 XP per asterisk.=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:15:20 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: The Humanoid Spellcasters Arminath wrote: Very good material here! Is there any more on 'noid spellcasters that you'd be willing to share? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:16:03 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 10:56:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > Yes, it's advertising, > and I know it will likely do a good job bringing new gamers into the hobb= y, > but I'm one of those "truth in advertising" people. It's like saying a > new car's fuel economy is such that it can go 40 km per litre of gas, whe= n > in truth it only goes 30. Sure, it's better than the 20 km/L model, but > IMO it's still misleading. If I'm not mistaken, I think that was part of > what Alan Shutko and Mike Harvey were saying, too. > =20 > At any rate, I wouldn't want to start a flame war over it. :) > =20 > Geoff > =20 I wouldn't do that to you Geoff, you are my hero! ;-)=20 Really, I appreciate your map & article contributions to the=20 Mystara site and can totally understand your position. I=20 guess, here in America, it's fairly easy to get jaded about=20 exaggerated (false) advertising (I assume you are not in=20 America since you just quoted a per litre ratio), so I end up=20 glossing over the sure-to-be-greatly-exaggerated claims of=20 most advertisements. Hey, BTW, any chance that you'd put more info up on the=20 Mystara site about Davania (esp. northwest Davania!) and=20 Denagoth that keys in with your maps? Please? =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 08:12:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:44 8/17/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >So, the new PHB makes no mention of them BEHAVING like kender? Well, it shifts their core alignment to neutral, gives them the fear resistant saving throw and mentions that they're intensely curious. They can either be Kender-lite or brave hobbits, as groups prefer their halflings. >(That would be my preference, for a default halfling anyway.) But I too >have never been able to shy too far away from the mysterious and >somewhat aloof Tolkienesque depiction of elves IMC. Frankly, it works well for me. I've prohibited elven player characters for now, so that the major elven NPC can come on stage and the players won't know if he's a typical elf or ... something else. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:39:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Need some XP help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Quick question - if the XP award for 2HD critters in OD&D is 20, how much > is awarded per asterisk? Five What are the rates for 5HD beasties? > 175xp base and 125 per asterix Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... SR Johnson wrote: >I wouldn't do that to you Geoff, you are my hero! ;-) :) (I assume you are not in America since you just quoted a per litre ratio), so I end up >glossing over the sure-to-be-greatly-exaggerated claims of >most advertisements. Thou art correct! I live in the not-so-frozen (yet) wasteland of Ottawa, Canada. >Hey, BTW, any chance that you'd put more info up on the >Mystara site about Davania (esp. northwest Davania!) and >Denagoth that keys in with your maps? Please? I'd be happy to. What sort of info would you (or anyone else, for that matter) be looking for? I have some material already written (sort of) for some of northern Davania, but some of it's earmarked for the Almanac. Would you like to know more about the old ruins dotting the area? Anything else? As for Denagoth, well, Marco Dalmonte is the main authority there (Almanac-wise anyways), so I'll pass the buck to him. ;-) Your turn, Marco..... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:45:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Need some XP help > >Don't have the Cyclopedia, so I referenced my >old DM's screen (I assume it'll be the same). >It lists it as 5 XP per asterisk. Thanks, Shawn :)! What does it say for 5HD, plus asterisks? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:46:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Need some XP help > What are the rates for 5HD beasties? >> > 175xp base and 125 per asterix Thank you! Your cheque is in the mail. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:08:43 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 1:50:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > At 00:56 8/17/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: > =20 > >I don't think I would go that far. Sind might be the only place where a > >character would have a choice of several Monk/Mystic orders to join, > >but several other nations do have at least one such order of their own. > =20 > In the Known World/Eastern Brun? Where? =20 With a little creativity, almost anywhere, if you can get over the=20 real-world archtype of a eastern culture-only monk. I think (IIRC) on Earth there have been "open-hand" combat experts in Africa=20 and in South America. Last week I was even toying with the idea=20 of elven non-lethal martial artists! Of course, they would be infinitely=20 more graceful and skilled than humans, having had centuries to=20 perfect their skills. The elven style would accentuate the dance-like=20 motions of unarmed combat and add small aesthetic "flairs" to=20 enhance the motions' beauty. They believe in the sacredness of all life=20 and only take life when not doing so would jeapardize more lives. =20 [If anyone ends up posting stats for this anywhere, I'd appreciate=20 a mention for thinking of the concept!] Priests of Koryis in Ochalea might be an example of the archtype eastern-culture monk. They likely exist (in some form) in Darokin also, as=20 Koryis is popular there. These monks would especially emphasis defense,=20 deflection of attacks and non-lethal results in combat as Koryis is above=20 all, an Immortal of peace. Do Ethengarians have any form of unarmed combat? Atruaghin Clans=20 might have highly developed forms of wrestling!? Foresters might be=20 permitted to learn the basics of the elven style if worthy, or perhaps only=20 long-lived demi-humans have the time to learn? Even the Makai of Ierendi=20 may have some form of unarmed combat, although being peaceful, I could not really see this (except on Pearl Islands). And finally, do not overlook= =20 Ylaruam with its many clerics or dwarves in Rockhome (dwarves may=20 know how to wrestle and brawl REALLY well!). I probably covered more=20 than you needed, but hope it helped.=20 =E2=80=94Shawn R. Johnson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:09:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Review (part 3) - The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 8:52:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Mystaros@AOL.COM writes: << You can find the stats on Familiars in the "2000 Survival Kit" section in the back of the PHB, page 10. >> Can't believe I overlooked that. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:11:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Review (part 3) - The new Player's Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/16/00 10:16:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Just wanted to say that - folks don't get enough kudos on the list for good work sometimes. Perhaps someone should post the full review on the web somewhere. >> Thanks. I might try to get it up on rpg.net or somewhere similar. Unless anyone knows a better sight? - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:17:32 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) In-Reply-To: <26.98c4a9f.26ccda77@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT David Knott wrote: > > >I don't think I would go that far. Sind might be the only place where a > > >character would have a choice of several Monk/Mystic orders to join, > > >but several other nations do have at least one such order of their own. > > > > In the Known World/Eastern Brun? Where? > > Ylaruam, Glantri, and the Minrothad Guilds are the nations that come > immediately to mind. Moving further east, I would add Thothia on the > Isle of Dawn and possibly Ochalea. I would add Sind and Darokin (owing to its close proximity to Sind). I'm considering adding a monastic arm to the Church of Karameikos, since it is based on a philosophy rather than specific immortals. It won't be eastern-flavored though, but more like the European monks with a russian twist (think Rasputin and seemingly supernatural abilities). Why Minrothad? (I don't have the gaz) The Minrothadders seem like practical, hard-nosed traders, not dreamy mystics. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 12:21:49 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/17/00 11:19:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Frankly, it works well for me. I've prohibited elven player characters for > now, so that the major elven NPC can come on stage and the players won't > know if he's a typical elf or ... something else. > (This written with my best kender/Hin voice in mind) "Beau, things in your campaign keep sounding curiouser and curioser!" My last campaign (in Karameikos) had two (of three) players with elf characters, but neither player wanted them to be from Karameikos. Players, can't live with 'em, can't save the Duchy without 'em (and certainly can't cackle with sinister glee when Dragonflames crisp their PCs' backsides without 'em either!). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:38:29 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Why Minrothad? (I don't have the gaz) The Minrothadders seem like > practical, hard-nosed traders, not dreamy mystics. > Probably for the same reason that the French have Savate, trading all over the place your seamen lean new ways to kill each other. ;^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:36:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:21 08/17/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >> Frankly, it works well for me. I've prohibited elven player >characters for >> now, so that the major elven NPC can come on stage and the players won't >> know if he's a typical elf or ... something else. >> >(This written with my best kender/Hin voice in mind) "Beau, things in your >campaign keep sounding curiouser and curioser!" Heh. Well, in my Karameikos campaign, the truth about Nicodemus and Fort Boldizsarovic is tied up in one elf's role in the region's history since the invasion by Thyatis. And, taking a cue from all the White Wolf games, there's some secrets that will be very dangerous to even appear to have learned. > My last campaign (in Karameikos) had two (of three) players with elf >characters, but neither player wanted them to be from Karameikos. Players, >can't live with 'em, can't save the Duchy without 'em (and certainly can't >cackle with sinister glee when Dragonflames crisp their PCs' backsides >without 'em either!). Well, since my two parallel campaigns are the first set in Mystara for my players, I'm requiring them to create characters from the nations in question. If their initial characters kick the bucket, I'll be more flexible. But my Karameikos campaign is ABOUT Karameikos and its history, so it doesn't make sense for "oh, I've got an Ostland Barbarian and he's got a Darokinian Enchanter ... why?" to be included. And my Shires campaign is all hin (although I opened the door for human wizards, too) because, frankly, you never see all-halfling games and I thought it'd make for a memorable change of pace. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:05:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Davania info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 11:52:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: =20 > I'd be happy to. What sort of info would you (or anyone else, for that > matter) be looking for? I have some material already written (sort of) > for some of northern Davania, but some of it's earmarked for the Almanac. Well, it is just that I noticed on the Mystara website that you've done many= =20 (if not all) of the maps for Davania and I reasoned that those little dots=20 and=20 numbers you put in some of the hexes must represent something! I see you've= =20 detailed the Addakian sound, and although good info is available on the=20 Izonda region, I'm still curious what the mind who created those maps has=20 envisioned=20 for their environs. A general overview will work nicely (the form most=20 entries on=20 the website take) and I can always nag you for more info later. ;-) Thanks, Geoff!! BTW, does anyone know if the Princess Ark ever visited this part of=20 Mystara (Izonda that is)? CoM seems to indicate that it did not, but I don't= =20 have the later Dragon magz. to double check. Thanks in advance. > Would you like to know more about the old ruins dotting the area? Anythin= g > else? Sure, any notes on ruins/dungeons or adventure hooks in the area would be=20 very helpful and greatly appreciated!=20 > for some of northern Davania, but some of it's earmarked for the Almanac. What Almanac? Are you referring to the Tome of Mystara or something=20 else? If something else, could you please post the URL? And btw, what stuf= f=20 are you doing for it (if you want to reveal it yet)? Thanks again. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:50:56 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000817001228.00b88a80@cogsci.ucsd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, David S. Leland wrote: > If you want to treat the clerics the way the elementals are treated, > I would give clerics the ability to turn/destroy elementals over > which their patron element has dominance. Their more hated enemies That gives them too much power. IMC, I would play clerics just like D&D - clerics of certain Immortals get the special powers in WoTI, and can choose from any spell, irregardless of "sphere". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 10:58:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) In-Reply-To: <00ed01c00869$93bb7c60$cc9a75c2@pauldool> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:38 PM 8/17/00 +0100, you wrote: >> Why Minrothad? (I don't have the gaz) The Minrothadders seem like >> practical, hard-nosed traders, not dreamy mystics. >> > Probably for the same reason that the French have Savate, trading all >over the place your seamen lean new ways to kill each other. ;^) Also, Gaz9 specifically mentions a Mystic order on one of the Minrothad Isles. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:07:35 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Davania info Shawn wrote: >Well, it is just that I noticed on the Mystara website that you've done many >(if not all) of the maps for Davania and I reasoned that those little dots >and numbers you put in some of the hexes must represent something! Yep, I spent about 2 years hand-drawing the entire continent of Davania. Ethan Denault even went so far as connect all of them together into one massive composite map (which I will email to anyone who asks for it - just drop a note to ganderg@tc.gc.ca, but be warned, it's about 500 kB unzipped). It was a big undertaking, but one which, I see, gets a fair bit of mileage. >I'm still curious what the mind who created those maps has >envisioned for their environs. A general overview will work nicely (the form most entries on the website take) and I can always nag you for more info later. ;-) >Thanks, Geoff!! :) Nag away. That's what works best, anyways. Francesco Defferari (sturm@libero.it) has done some interesting work fleshing out the Izondian region of Davania - some of his work is on Shawn's site under the Davanian section, IIRC. Also, I think Steven B. Wilson (who used to frequent the MML a while back) had named the region "Arica", and designed it as a sort of Mystaran version of Africa. That's on Shawn's site, too. I *did* have rough plans for what would be placed at all the numbered locations, though. I hardly wrote any of it down, but I remember most of it (in the same way people tend to remember advertising jingles, or whole segments of Monty Python's Holy Grail, while being unable to recall what they had made for lunch a couple of hours previously). Now that my latest article for the Tome is done, perhaps I can try to put some of this to paper. > BTW, does anyone know if the Princess Ark ever visited this part of >Mystara (Izonda that is)? CoM seems to indicate that it did not, but I don't >have the later Dragon magz. to double check. Thanks in advance. Nope, the Princess Ark did not visit Izonda. It flew over (and visited) Cestia and northeastern Arypt (according to the map in the Master boxed set), and flew over Oceania and the Vulture Peninsula (briefly visiting the latter). Aside from a brief stopover at Green Bay (to meet the N'djatwa), and crashing somewhere in Vulcania, that's about it for Davania. >Sure, any notes on ruins/dungeons or adventure hooks in the area would be >very helpful and greatly appreciated! Okay then. Let's see what can be cooked up about the ruins of Pelenzor, the final resting place of Brell, and maybe even the time-forgotten pillars of Yath-Khe..... >What Almanac? Are you referring to the Tome of Mystara or something >else? If something else, could you please post the URL? And btw, what stuff are you doing for it (if you want to reveal it yet)? Thanks again. Ah, I meant the Mystaran Almanac - the online, fan-based continuation of the Poor Wizard's Alamanacs, and Joshuan's Almanac. You can see online versions on Shawn's site at: dnd.starflung.com/alm.html We are currently working on the Almanac for the year AC 1017, though we've covered the years AC 1014 through 1016. Each issue has roughly the same format as the PWAs and JA (more like a mixture between the two), and we provide information on new nations, new NPCs, and the like. Currently I write some of the events for Davania (and edit that section), plus events concerning the Heldannic Knights, Nithia, and Selhomarr. I also serve a co-head editor with Herve, so I expect I'll be helping him out in putting the blasted thing together once everyone's submissions come in. It's enough to keep me fairly busy. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:14:19 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jesper Troelstrup Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii First submission to the list after being disillusioned with roleplaying altogether when my favorite fantasyworld was closed, but now slowly regaining my faith in humanity as I much too late discover your stubborn efforts to keep Mystara alive. In answer to Alan Shutkos question: What else would you recommend to Wizards to drive the sales of the PHB, so that the D&D line stays afloat? How about: Mystara could be a fantasyworld for yet more experienced players with emphasis on roleplaying. First: You can play all sorts of strange creatures. Second: Mystara is a place, where it makes sense to play real powerfull characters all the way up the to immortal level - not in the Dark Sun-figtherclass-on-steroids sense of the word - but a place where players can take part in extremely complicated political situations, a place where economy and trade can influence the game. Thirdly: This is a highly magical place: Is your regular campaign going stale: You should visit The Savage Coast or The Hollow World, where magic is weird and unpredictable - and who says, there aren't stranger places yet - for instance on the Arm of the Immortals? A related question: Can't we, the fans, do without TSR/WotC since the people behind the Almanacs are doing such a wonderful job? I'm not sure. TSR had at times some visionary people working for them. Again: The Almanacs and the contributions to the list, that I have seen, are top class stuff, but most of the efforts stay within the canon, which is alright really, but once in a while we need radical ideas like the hollow world, the land of the red steel, the sinking of a continent. So IMO there would have to be a gamesetting, it wouldn't make much sense otherwise, but apart from that, the only thing needed is a campaign expansion/adventure like WotI every year or two, please. The Almanacs and Gazetteers can probably be made better by the people, who are keeping Mystara alive now. Btw: Lets have fun and dream a little: If the powers that be decided to officially resurrect Mystara, what year should they chose to start? 1025? Bids anyone? Jesper Troelstrup ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:25:38 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Also, Gaz9 specifically mentions a Mystic order on one of the Minrothad > Isles. > Don't have it to hand right now, where about is that in the gaz? Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:35:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:14 08/17/2000 +0200, Jesper Troelstrup wrote: >Btw: Lets have fun and dream a little: If the powers that be decided to >officially resurrect Mystara, what year should they chose to start? 1025? Bids >anyone? 1020 would be my preference. Close enough to allow many ongoing campaigns to make the jump (or fudge backwards a bit), but not so far off so as to throw all the beloved old materials into near-obsolescence. Honestly, there needs to be a single massive (3E?) updating of the setting, with all the materials in one place, and then almanacs after that. I appreciate and salute all the work that goes into doing the MAs each year, but my preference would be to not have to read through flavor text and jump around many hotlinks to find everything I'm looking for. A BOOK would be so nice, although apparently WotC isn't going to be allowing anyone to use "dead" settings with their d20 licenses. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:53:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: 3e Immortals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:50 AM 8/17/00, SteelAngel wrote: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, David S. Leland wrote: > If you want to treat the clerics the way the elementals are treated, > I would give clerics the ability to turn/destroy elementals over > which their patron element has dominance. Their more hated enemies That gives them too much power. IMC, I would play clerics just like D&D - clerics of certain Immortals get the special powers in WoTI, and can choose from any spell, irregardless of "sphere". I was working with the premise that David Knott wanted to have clerics worshipping an element per se, or an Immortal with an element as a domain, not just an immortal affiliated with the element, and that he was giving them that turning power. Given that premise, I suggested that the appropriate element to be able to turn is the one over which you have dominance (not the one with which you're most hostile). I personally never considered having clerics who could turn elementals. Still, I think you're wrong and that it doesn't give them too much power. Most of the "standard" elementals in OD&D are pretty powerful and have a lot of hit dice, and would be difficult to turn by anything but a high level cleric. In a campaign focusing on elemental opposition, elemental-based creatures can be thought of much like undead. The weak ones (e.g. Fundamentals for the Creature Catalog) are easy to turn, and vulnerable to low level clerics. The medium ones (e.g. Elemental Drakes) would be as tough to turn as spectres, and things like Greater Efreet would be as tough to turn as, say, Liches. Also realize that "destroyed" elementals would just be sent back to their plane, as when "killed" by conventional methods. If the cleric travels to the elemental plane in question, the turning would not work since that's their home turf, or at least the ability would be severely penalized since destroying them on their plane would really mean obliterating them. Perhaps those clerics shouldn't be able to turn undead because it would be giving them too many abilities, but the power to turn elemental creatures is not inherently 'too powerful.' Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 13:53:36 CDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey, in case you are curious I am in the process of converting my witch to 3rd Edition. In particular I am including the witches that I playtested in Glantri. You can get some of this from my website now, http://rpghost.com/WebWarlock/D&D3.html or wait till my next netbook, "Eldritch Witchery" comes out this fall. It will cover many of the classes listed below. Thanks, Warlock. >> Glantri - Order of the Radiance >> - the Secret Crafts >> - Free Wolves (PC4) >> - various mystic orders > >Mystics would seem to equate to 3E Monks. > >> Northern - Skald >> Reaches - Witch >> Robrenn - Druid >> - Druidic Knight >> -- WebWarlock webwarlock@iname.com The Other Side, http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock Home of the Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:41:36 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Davania info In-Reply-To: <200008171807.OAA10737@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Geoff Gander wrote: > Yep, I spent about 2 years hand-drawing the entire continent of Davania. > Ethan Denault even went so far as connect all of them together into one > massive composite map (which I will email to anyone who asks for it - just I still have the 15MB version, using the full size maps :) It's huge. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:48:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Gander meandered fecklessly... > > You're aware that WotC is a publishing business, right? What else would > >you think they'd do? > > Of course, they will publish books - I'd rather they spent their energies > writing adventures, that's all. IMO, adventures are the one thing > everyone can use. The problem is that Wizards has already stated that standard adventures don't sell very well. Their big super-adventures don't do too bad, but the smaller ones often don't pay for themselves. This is why they have really pushed Dungeon as an adventure resource. Plus, people who play but not DM rarely bother with them. > I guess what I was trying to say, albeit not in the best fashion, is that > I have trouble believing the advertisments for 3E, in that they are > promising a less cumbersome game overall. >From what I have heard the class-based supplements do not add more rules, but rather more resources. They do not change the game in any fundamental way. They are collections of new skills, feats, prestige classes, and advice on how to use them ot create a variety of characters. To me, this kind of thing is a fundamental aspect of RPGs. I can't think of any successful game that does not carry these kinds of products (off the top of my head, that is). This is the kind of thing many gamers love. Some like it for "power", while some, such as myself, like the idea of additional resources with which to customize my character and help control their progression, or to help customize NPCs in games I run. The 3e PHB had only so much room in it. They chose to include a more general selection of things like feats, skills, equipment, and so on. But one core book is not going to offer the kind of range many gamers look for when it comes to resources such as these. Over time they have a chance to use many of them, and look for something more. I have seen nothing from Wizards that says they will/were going to discontinue publishing books with new rules-based stuff. What I have heard is... 1) They will be slowing down schedule on releases. This has already been evident over the last year or so. 2) Nothing released will up the power level of the game as a whole. That is, none of the new stuff will be the kind of thing that trumps the old resources. A book with new feats designed for a standard campaign won't be more powerful than core feats designed for a given level of character. Many of the kits in the CHBs had this problem. 3) Nothing will require anything but the core books to use. That is, you won't find supplements or adventures that rely on you having the Sword and Fist supplement, for example. I am not sure how well they will stick with these, and I am sure there will be exceptions. I would expect a module designed specifically to go with the new psionic supplement to use those rules, or an FR supplement to refer back to the new FR hardback. > When I think "less > cumbersome", "you won't need all those book anymore", and so on, I think > "Rules Cyclopedia", or "this is the one rulebook you'll ever need". What makes you think that they will ever print anything for 3e that you will need? It seems to me that you can easily say "These are the only three books you will ever need" and be right. There are lots of supplemental material for the RC. It seems that half the Gazetteers have new rules, new spells, new classes, and so on. The Creature Crucible series all had new classes, new skills and so on. Wrath of the Immortals had expanded rules for clerics and achieving Immortality. So on and so forth. It seems that only difference is that they are mixed in with setting material. So, while with the RC you have all the rules you really need in one book, you have supplemental material available if you wish it. And with 3e, you have all the rules you need in three books, you have supplemental material available if you wish it. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:17:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<. Last week I was even toying with the idea of elven non-lethal martial artists! Of course, they would be infinitely more graceful and skilled than humans, having had centuries to perfect their skills. The elven style would accentuate the dance-like motions of unarmed combat and add small aesthetic "flairs" to enhance the motions' beauty. They believe in the sacredness of all life and only take life when not doing so would jeapardize more lives. >> Already done it (but their combat skills are far from non-lethal)! Well sort of anyway. In my campaign, there is a small (NPC only) clan of the Vyalia elves, called the Blackoak clan. This clan are all religious zealots, what have dedicated their lives from birth to the protection of the elven Tree Keeper and the Tree of Life. They are a sort of cross between a mystic and a magic user (their fey blood allowing them to still cast spells), and are quite terrifying to behold. Their experience chart obviously reflects their dangerous combination (they require 6,000 xp just to achieve 2nd level), and as they are an NPC class only, I feel like I can get away with it. Another mystic order I have created, is the Order of the Night Winds. Located in the Altan Tepes between Thyatis and Ylaruam, these mystics are an order who become vampires at later levels (when the mystic achieves 9th level, they are turned into Vampires, and then given free will so their hierarchy cannot dominate them). Needless to say, this order is also an NPC only order, but is definately a bit of fun. I don't intent to use this order for the moment, not until my PCs raise quite a few levels (and then only one or two) anyway. I have other more mundane Mystic orders dotted about (including a mystic order of plane walkers, whose monestary is actually located in the ethereal plane), but the above are definately my most "exotic". :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:09:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: arminath_wynter Subject: Re: The Humanoid Spellcasters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Very good material here! Is there any more on 'noid spellcasters that >you'd be willing to share? > >Geoff Why, verily my good friend! Keep a wary eye for more soon. Any suggestions or comments, please, feel free to air them. Arminath Wynter, Old "Man" of the North _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:04:49 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Martial Arts known on Mystara (Part 1) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi everyone! Seeing the question about where mystics can be found on Mystara I couldn't refrain from mentioning my list of Martial Arts known on Mystara (I've detailed each of the Martial arts in my Guide to Martial Arts .. which unfortunately for you English speakers is in Italian..:p). Just for your interest, here's the Legenda: Martial Art Style School Name - Location (Nation) Distinguished Master (D&D ClassLevel, race, gender, Hp, Alignment) Mi: Mystic, E: Elf, D: Druid, H: Halfling, Pa: Paladin, C: Cleric, Or: Orc, M: Mage u: human, e: emerondian m: male, f: female pf: Hit Points Note: I've ruled that also elves and halflings can become Mystics! So where the Class is listed as E or H, it's the standard D&D Elf or Halfling class, while when it's listed "MiXX, e/h" then it's an elven or hin Mystic. Aikido Tiger of the One Hundred Eyes - Krondahar (Glantri) Master Raylan-sin (Mi13,u,m,pf:56,L) Great Order of Saffron - Lhamsa (Glantri) Venerable Batu (Mi20,u,m,pf:70,N) Almond's Flower - Beitung (Ochalea) Master Lei Khang (Mi23,u,m,pf:80,L) Forest Dance Red Arrow Academy - Shieldtree (Alfheim) Cmdr. Brightsword (E8,m,pf:48,L) Leaf in the WoodsRadlebb (Karameikos) Sythandria (E7,f,pf:50,N) Mother Forest Order - Emerond (Davania) Pikkolu (D36,em,m,pf:81,N) Order of the Eternal Fall - Shiye-Lawr (Alphatia) Master Evankye (Mi15,e,m,pf:63,C) Dragon of the Five Peaks - Kevar (Wendar) Shiriassos (Mi17,e,m,pf:69,N) Ten Thousand Fists Ten Thousand Fists of the Khan - Ethengar Master Shangsun (Mi33,u,m,pf:105,N) Tiger's Claw - Wongzhao Tsuhao (Ochalea) Master Mitsuhashi (Mi19,u,m,pf:68,C) Blackflame Nob Nar Academy - Shireton (Five Shires) Master Stewynn Seagull (Mi15,h,m,pf:55,L) Order of Blackflame - Leeha (Norworld) "Ranger" Walker Norris (H8,m,pf:40,L) Hollister School for Self-defense - Athenos (Darokin) Master Krylin Hollister (Mi12,h,m,pf:50,N) Jeet Kune Do Orient Dragon - Wutang Dong Ha (Ochalea) Master Chen Lee (Mi36,u,m,pf:100,N) Dawn Heron - East Portage (Isle of Dawn) Ken Myers (Mi19,u,m,pf:67,N) Judo Arcobaleno dell'Est - Chung Tsu (Ochalea) Master Maruyama (Mi26,u,m,pf:74,L) Kei Order - Sind Master Sanat (Mi31,u,m,pf:90,N) Bettelyn Academy - Bettelyn (Alphatia) Cmdr. Atuparan (Pa16,u,f,pf:47,C) Karate Five Stars of Chi - Chi Plains (Ochalea) Master Ito Shinji (Mi18,u,m,pf:70,N) Father Sun Order - Emerond (Davania) Dendeh (C36,m,pf:72,N) Savage Kenpo Legion of Thar - Orcus Rex (Broken Lands) Blakna (Or13,m,pf:80,C) Spirit Dance - Atruaghin Plateau Thunderhawk (Mi15,u,m,pf:55,C) Ten Thousand Hands of Bozdogan - Magden (Hule) Master Huyulek (Mi30,u,m,pf:88,C) Ogre Fist - Limn (Alphatia) Chankrana (Or10,f,pf:70,N) Sindhi Kickboxing Jashpurdhana Order - Kadesh (Sind) Master Tayib (Mi27,u,m,pf:84,N) Shehid Order - Sind Master Lal (Mi21,u,m,pf:70,L) Hosadus's Claws - Khuur (Hule) Master Vega (Mi19,u,m,pf:65,C) Kung-fu Roar of the Golden Lion - Ying Tang (Ochalea) Master Wong Fu Yi (Mi34,u,m,pf:93,L) Order of the Fistful Thunder - Stonewall (Alphatia) Cmdr. Aylishun (M20,u,m,pf:50,C) Sister Earth Order - Emerond (Davania) Kami (D30,f,pf:70,N) End part 1 If you're interested in knowing the complete list, let me know. PS: note that many of the names herein are in jokes about famous movie stars and Japanese cartoons (ex: Chen Lee of Jeet Kune Do is obviously Bruce "Chen" Lee) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:13:54 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: arminath_wynter Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known World. Methinks, if memory serves correct, that they practiced a form of life and combat vastly different from those of us in Eastern Brun. Arminath Wynter _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:28:22 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Martial Arts known on Mystara (Part 1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit < Snipped some really excellent stuff > > If you're interested in knowing the complete list, let me know. > > PS: note that many of the names herein are in jokes about famous movie > stars and Japanese cartoons (ex: Chen Lee of Jeet Kune Do is obviously > Bruce "Chen" Lee) Send it in. I am eagerly awaiting! BTW any thoughts on a signature move that will identify each fighting style from the other? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:21:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) In-Reply-To: <003001c008a0$d2a21100$14253604@jimbobb> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:13 08/17/2000 -0400, arminath_wynter wrote: >Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known >World. Methinks, if memory serves correct, that they practiced a form of >life and combat vastly different from those of us in Eastern Brun. And they're delicious in soup. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:09:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Martial Arts on Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 7:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT writes: >=20 > Seeing the question about where mystics can be found on Mystara I couldn'= t > refrain from mentioning my list of Martial Arts known on Mystara (I've > detailed each of the Martial arts in my Guide to Martial Arts .. which > unfortunately for you English speakers is in Italian..:p). Could you be so kind as to also post a brief description of each=20 style for people not really familiar with real-world martial arts? The=20 description could include such useful info as how it looks when in use,=20 whether it favors attack or defense, signature moves/type(s) of movement=20 it's known for [example: Kung fu involves defensive moves and throws, but=20 Tae Kwon Do can involve intricate flying kicks and mid-air spins=E2=80=94IIR= C.] Much appreciated, Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:14:35 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Tortle soup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/17/00 7:34:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > At 19:13 08/17/2000 -0400, arminath_wynter wrote: > >Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known > And they're delicious in soup. > =20 Beau, you know that's wrong! FUN-E!!! But wrong. But while we're on the=20 subject, I hear the common Lizardman and Troglodyte are quite fond of=20 Hin fondue (who know Tortles may even eat it!)!!! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 17:32:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Tortle soup In-Reply-To: <7a.915e3eb.26cdd9eb@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:14 08/17/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >> >Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known > >> And they're delicious in soup. >Beau, you know that's wrong! FUN-E!!! But wrong. But while we're on the >subject, I hear the common Lizardman and Troglodyte are quite fond of >Hin fondue (who know Tortles may even eat it!)!!! Yeah, but hin are really high in cholesterol. That's pretty much roast heart attack right there. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:26:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Tortle soup Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:14:35 SR Johnson wrote: >In a message dated 8/17/00 7:34:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM >writes: > >> At 19:13 08/17/2000 -0400, arminath_wynter wrote: >> >Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known > >> And they're delicious in soup. >> >Beau, you know that's wrong! FUN-E!!! But wrong. But while we're on the >subject, I hear the common Lizardman and Troglodyte are quite fond of >Hin fondue (who know Tortles may even eat it!)!!! >b Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 03:47:25 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Tortle soup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> >Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known > > > >> And they're delicious in soup. > > >Beau, you know that's wrong! FUN-E!!! But wrong. But while we're on the > >subject, I hear the common Lizardman and Troglodyte are quite fond of > >Hin fondue (who know Tortles may even eat it!)!!! > > Yeah, but hin are really high in cholesterol. That's pretty much roast > heart attack right there. > Wily merchants are even now launching advertising campaigns for their "Low fat, but REAL taste" cheeses throughout the area to deal with the problem in a constructive way. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:20:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Tortle soup Shawn wrote: >Beau, you know that's wrong! FUN-E!!! But wrong. But while we're on the >subject, I hear the common Lizardman and Troglodyte are quite fond of >Hin fondue (who know Tortles may even eat it!)!!! There was also this enterprising gnome (when are they not, though?) who invented a special rotisserie grill to fry up several Hin at once. Real easy - just stab the skewer through them lengthwise (like impaling a sausage on those whirly hot dog warmers), turn the crank, and watch your meal cook over the trapped fire elemental (not included). :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:29:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Clay Postma Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/17/00 5:22:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time, arminath_wynter@NETZERO.NET writes: << Let us not forget the Tortles in the lands to the Far West of the Known World. Methinks, if memory serves correct, that they practiced a form of life and combat vastly different from those of us in Eastern Brun. Arminath Wynter >> OH YEAH...Teenage Mutant Ninja TORTLES!!!! froggy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:55:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hey, in case you are curious I am in the process of converting my witch to > 3rd Edition. In particular I am including the witches that I playtested in > Glantri. > You can get some of this from my website now, > http://rpghost.com/WebWarlock/D&D3.html or wait till my next netbook, > "Eldritch Witchery" comes out this fall. It will cover many of the classes > listed below. Are you sure about that URL? I was unable to connect to it just now. My Web browser told me it did not exist. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:12:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Ierendi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-17 7:32:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gmcc@ESATCLEAR.IE writes: > Surprisingly enough there's an alternate history in the Ierendi > section on dnd.starflung.com :) > > http://dnd.starflung.com/ierendi2.html > > It's cool, I likes... Yep, that's the one I was remembering! Thanks for the URL! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:12:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-17 12:28:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: > Why Minrothad? (I don't have the gaz) The Minrothadders seem like > practical, hard-nosed traders, not dreamy mystics. Reference Gaz 9, DM's booklet, p. 54, entry for Blackrock Island. The main point of interest on that island is the Larril Hermitage, which includes a small order of Mystics who are followers of Darrin Posman, a Minrothad Mystic who learned Alphatian Mystic traditions while serving as a Minrothad guild port agent in Alphatia and later returned to the Minrothad Islands to found a hermitage and share his knowledge with others. To round out my earlier suggestions: Sindian mystical traditions should have spread to Darokin with the refugees fleeing the Master's conquest of that nation, and Thothian mystical traditions should have spread throughout the Alphatian Empire. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:37:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ron Rogers Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) In-Reply-To: Clay Postma 's message of Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:29:42 EDT Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) froggy wrote; >OH YEAH...Teenage Mutant Ninja >TORTLES!!!! You mean Teenage Inheritor (or Radianced Mystic Tortles. Heroes on the half shell, Tortle Power! CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) Knight of the Square Table http://members.tripod.com/~CronoCloud/index.html Member of the Knights Knoble http://knightsknoble.cjb.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:06:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: The Afterlife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Religon in the Known World is very roughly defined in the gazetters, and elsewhere. I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on what the Afterlife is like in the minds of the average Known Worlder. I imagine that demi-humans might already have some notions about life after death (i.e. the sould crystals and the Shadow Elves), but what about the human population? I think AD&D talks about 'souls' heading off to the home plane of their alignment or something.. but then again, AD&D is not much good for anything. When a human from Darokin, Karameikos, Thyatis, Glantri or anywhere else in the known world dies, what happens? Is there the concept of a soul, or is the only way to achieve immortality by becoming, well, an immortal? Do the spirits of the dead ascend to the home plane of one of the five spheres? Given that ghosts and various other undead are known to exist in the known world.. it would seem that the notion of some sort of soul could be common among known world cultures. But what happens to it once it gets to the new plane of existence? Or does it go anywhere at all? Any thoughts? Erik Waddell ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:07:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Davania Map uploaded Hi all, Just a brief note to say I uploaded Ethan's compilation of my Davania maps onto my website. Just follow the addy in my sig, and scroll down to "Other Things Mystaran" Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:14:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Generic adventures? (was: Why was Greyhawk resurrected?) Cc: Reply-To: au998@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Leroy wrote: >The problem is that Wizards has already stated that standard >adventures don't sell very well. Their big super-adventures don't >do too bad, but the smaller ones often don't pay for themselves. >This is why they have really pushed Dungeon as an adventure >resource. Plus, people who play but not DM rarely bother with >them. Therein lies the problem, I guess. One would think that professionally-made adventures would sell well, but since, as you point out, they are of interest only to DMs, well, that's only part of the market. Does anyone know if generic modules outperform setting-specific ones, sales-wise? If so, one way out might be to produce generic modules, with a special section at the end, maybe no more than a page in length, providing ideas as to where in each campaign world it could be placed. ie: "This adventure could be staged in Silvanost in Dragonlance, Alfheim or Shiye-Lawr in Mystara, and blah blah blah....." And perhaps specific NPCs could have alternate names or magic items - as deemed appropriate to that world. An idea, anyways.... Other good points snipped... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:41:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Find Familiar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm preparing for the 4th adventure of my Glantri GSoM campaign, and one of my player characters has recent learned the Find Familiar spell. I'm trying to decide what sort of familiar might show up, and how I could potentially use it in the upcoming adventure. Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a familiar for a Glantri Wizard (level 1.. so a dragon is a bad idea)? What about stories of how familiars worked out in your own campaign? Erik ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:07:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: The Afterlife In-Reply-To: <0008181106061S.00563@webb1.iname.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:06 08/18/2000 -0400, Erik Waddell wrote: >I think AD&D talks about 'souls' heading off to the home plane of their alignment or something.. but then again, AD&D is not much good for anything. Is this a blanket statement, or more specific to this? Because "Dieties and Demigods" discussed the afterlife in detail and ascension to immortal status years before D&D did. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:09:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Generic adventures? (was: Why was Greyhawk In-Reply-To: <200008181514.LAA28064@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:14 08/18/2000 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Therein lies the problem, I guess. One would think that >professionally-made adventures would sell well, but since, as you point >out, they are of interest only to DMs, well, that's only part of the >market. Does anyone know if generic modules outperform setting-specific >ones, sales-wise? If so, one way out might be to produce generic modules, >with a special section at the end, maybe no more than a page in length, >providing ideas as to where in each campaign world it could be placed. > >ie: "This adventure could be staged in Silvanost in Dragonlance, Alfheim >or Shiye-Lawr in Mystara, and blah blah blah....." And perhaps specific >NPCs could have alternate names or magic items - as deemed appropriate to >that world. That's the new rule for "Dungeon" adventures, and I think I've seen some WotC pros allude to the idea that the (generic) Adventure Path modules would be done the same way, or be "minimally" linked to any given world. As I plan to buy "Sunless Citadel" and "Forge of Fury," this is good news to me. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 18:30:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Find Familiar In-Reply-To: <0008181241088Y.25380@webb3.iname.net>; from erik@CANADIENSFAN.COM on Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 12:41:08PM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 12:41:08PM -0400, Erik Waddell wrote: > I'm preparing for the 4th adventure of my Glantri GSoM campaign, and one of my player characters has recent learned the Find Familiar spell. > > I'm trying to decide what sort of familiar might show up, and how I could potentially use it in the upcoming adventure. > > Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a familiar for a Glantri > Wizard (level 1.. so a dragon is a bad idea)? Cat, Owl, Raven, Toad, Rat. Raven's are cool :) > What about stories of > how familiars worked out in your own campaign? One of the characters in the last game I ran decided to Conjure Companion on the night of the red moon. Deciding to go big he used a red dragon claw as part of the component. Naturally it didn't go entirely correct, he ended up with a dragon (sort of) who he called Carfax. It was the size of a small red with half of it's face peeled away leaving an ooze over the skull that was visible. It was later discovered that Carfax was made up of 3 souls, one an entropic demon, one the ruler of a recently destroyed world who was a master of psionics, and one part fire elemental. He did *wierd* things, and helped with the odd but of magic. Eventually Carfax was captured by Dolores Hillsbury (the PC's nemesis) who did another wacky ceremony on the Night of the Red Moon (again) and killed Carfax, binding the elemental part of the soul to her, and killed the PC's firstborn son. The net result was that the PC was unable to harm Dolores without harming himself, and is still rather displeased by the whole affair to say the least. The entropic part of Carfax reappeared with the PC when he gained immortality through the radiance at the end of Wrath of the Immortals (just after it's change to entropy) and was most disturbed to find himself an entropic immortal. The psionic part of the familiar had become bound to the Tower of Sighs during Dolores ritual and was released 10 years later (in my current campaign, by the new PC's) and is now running around in the body of Pieter Vandehaar, another of the PC's enemies who was locked in the tower of sighs 10 years before too. Moral of the story: Don't summon stuff on the Night of the Red Moon :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:27:08 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Re: The Afterlife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---- you wrote: > At 11:06 08/18/2000 -0400, Erik Waddell wrote: > > >I think AD&D talks about 'souls' heading off to the home plane of their > alignment or something.. but then again, AD&D is not much good for anything. > > Is this a blanket statement, or more specific to this? Because "Dieties > and Demigods" discussed the afterlife in detail and ascension to immortal > status years before D&D did. Just expressing my preference for the Basic D&D rules (and rules cyclopedia).. ad&d is good for reference material (i use the AD&D spell list, it's longer than the one in the cyclopedia). Unfortunately, I don't own the Deities and Demigods supplement (used to years ago.. i think the gremlins took it). Erik ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:29:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Tortle soup MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/18/00 12:39:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > There was also this enterprising gnome (when are they not, though?) who > invented a special rotisserie grill to fry up several Hin at once. Real > easy - just stab the skewer through them lengthwise (like impaling a > sausage on those whirly hot dog warmers), turn the crank, and watch your > meal cook over the trapped fire elemental (not included). :-) > =20 Beau, now I feel bad for spearheading this vicious trend of discussing "Spic= y=20 Hin dishes and other recipes". But a least the Tortles may feel somewhat=20 vindicated=20 now, even though they too are still on the menu. =20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:19:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Martial Arts known on Mystara (Part 2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Phillip Jones wrote: < Snipped some really excellent stuff > Thanks Phillip! If u think this is good, you should see the rules and all the passes I invented for the martial arts.. I'm really sorry I don't have the time to translate them right now, but basically the system is similar to Oriental Adventures' martial arts, with the Weapon Mastery grades. Each school has 20 passes, divided by grades of mastery, and u get to choose 4 for each grade u advance, so u build your own style, till u lean them all at Grand Master level. There are 40 different types of attacks, and another 25 special passes that concern Movement, Mind & Body and Special Feats, so u can even build your own school choosing the right ones.. >Send it in. I am eagerly awaiting! Okay, since I've seen you're interested, I'm sending the second and last part of the list. As usual the Legenda is: Martial Art Style School Name - Location (Nation) Distinguished Master (D&D ClassLevel, race, gender, Hp, Alignment) Mi: Mystic, E: Elf, D: Druid, H: Halfling, Pa: Paladin, C: Cleric, Or: Orc, Oc: Ogre, M: Mage, G: Fighter u: human, e: emerondian m: male, f: female pf: Hit Points Note: I've ruled that also elves and halflings can become Mystics! So where the Class is listed as E or H, it's the standard D&D Elf or Halfling class, while when it's listed "MiXX, e/h" then it's an elven or hin Mystic. Freestyle Wrestling Gladiators Arena - Thyatis City (Thyatis) Maximus Meridio (G24,u,m,pf:102,C) Thar Legion - Orcus Rex (Broken Lands) Gorro Four-arms (Oc12,m,pf:104,C) Goraev Wrestling School - Specularum (Karameikos) Igor Zankief (Mi11,u,m,pf:60,C) Milenio-Thyatian Wrestling Imperial Academy - Thyatis City (Thyatis) Cmdr. Iulius Cassius (G12,u,m,pf:63,L) Gladiators Arena - Thyatis City (Thyatis) Dimitrios (G9,u,m,pf:54,N) Nuari Wrestling Order of the High Spider - Pearl Islands Master Humbutu (Mi22,u,m,pf:71,N) Brotherhood of the Order - Tanakumba (Yavdlom) Venerable Birungi (Mi14,e,m,pf:56,L) Mu-thad Southern Siren - Blackrock (Minrothad) Dennis Posman (M10,u,m,pf:52,L) Panther's Fangs - Thanegioth Sagh-ath (Mi14,u,m,pf:65,C) Pankration Thesalis Gymnasium - Kastelios (Davania) Master Savvas Thesalis (Mi26,u,m,pf:90,N) Kamakis Gymnasium - Zendrol (Thyatis) Master Nikolaus Kamakis (Mi14,u,m,pf:66,L) Spider Stance Order of the Square Web - Edairo (Thothia) Master Hotepsis (Mi36,m,pf:100,C) Magus's Eyes - Nezhev (Herath) Master Venyom (Mi12,a,pf:60,C) Rock Fist Order of the Rock - Dengar (Rockhome) Barrog Flasheyes (N12,m,pf:60,N) Gladiators Arena - Thyatis City (Thyatis) Guiles (G19,u,m,pf:88,C) Adventurers Club - Ierendi (Ierendi) Johnny Cageson (G12,m,pf:68,C) Makai Shudo Cobra Dance - Ierendi Master Tuipaniki (Mi16,u,m,pf:65,L) Sumo Wrestling Onda Gymnasium - Thyatis City (Thyatis) Oyakata Erasmus Onda (Mi10,u,m,pf:60,N) Heya Mitohoshi - Wongzhao Tsu Yi (Ochalea) Oyakata Ukio Mitohoshi (Mi29,u,m,pf:96,N) Tae kwan do Sky Dragon's Claw - Chungkiang (Ochalea) Master Fei Long (Mi20,u,m,pf:71,N) Dragon Wings - Randel (Alphatia) Master Ryun (Mi21,u,m,pf:75,L) Torasta Order of the Shell - Dunwick (Bellayne) Master Moten (Mi24,t,m,pf:78,L) Desert Wind Order of the Sands - Alaysia (Ylaruam) Master Farid al-Dijay (Mi18,u,m,pf:68,N) Children of the Ashes - Jhengal (Sind) Master Dalsheem (Mi14,u,m,pf:58,C) Ok, here's the complete list. Many names were inspired by Street Fighter II and MOrtal Kombat (Johnny Cageson is just one of my fave recurring NPCs) :) >BTW any thoughts on a signature move that will identify each fighting style >from the other? Oh, well, it's logical they differentiate from each other basing on the standing position (main difference is DEFENSIVE vs OFFENSIVE type of schools). I haven't really figured one stance for each school, only a couple. For example, Makai Shudo always uses preferably kicks and it's very similar to Capoeira (Brazilian martial art/dance where the "fighter" makes very fluent moves also balancing on his arms to avoid the attacker's blows and strike with his feets). Sumo is obviously based on balance and resistance (I've even made a Sumo Wrestler kit for Mystics!!), with a steady position at first, followed by sudden and quick darts towards the enemy to push him off balance. Tae Kwan Do is another school that is based on kicks for the most, but its moves are not so "fluent and delicate" as the capoeira. Rather they're stiff, powerful blows always directed at vital points made using one leg to strike and the other to keep one's from falling. Karate is based on certain fixed moves (Kata) one learns to use to defend himself and counterattack. The Karate fighter always stands with low hip, one leg forward and the other back to keep balance, and one arm extended and the other near his side. Kung fu is the oldest martial art style in RL and it is famous for its 18 styles, each one based on real animals (the Snake, Tiger, Bear and Mantis being the most famous). Its specialists also uses some martial arts weapons (ex: spear, nunchaku, chain, scimitar, sang kauw, siangkam, etc.) together with bare hands (as karate does too), and there are some feats that allows this. Aikido is a defensive style based on Throws and wrestling moves, which uses the attacker's strength and energy against him, to make him lose his foot and throw him off the ground. That's what comes off my mind at the moment. Hope to have been helpful. :) Maybe one day I'll get to translate the whole guide in English.. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:20:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: Prestige classes, was Greyhawk resurrection Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Phillip Jones wrote: <> AARRGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!! I remeber other vampire mystics encountered by my players once during M5, Talons of Night. There were scores of phanaton vampires and vampire mystics headed by Ramenhotep X, the so called "bloodsucking mystic", who in fact drained once 8 LEVELS in one round (he was top level Mystic and got 5 attacks per round, and hit one of my players 4 times, with double Level drain each time!) These are definitely NOOOO GOOOD for PCs! I have refrained from using them ever since.. :p DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:48:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: 3E Marketing question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi there! Well, the title of the msg is actually a bit too pretentious. I just wanted to know what are/have been the marketing strategies WotC used to sell its new PHB so well. I mean, aside from mega advertising on the net to the usual niche of old time TSR gaming fans, did WotC made other moves to attract new lifeblood to the RPG system? Ads on national TVs? Leaflets and ads in non-gaming books and reviews? What did u see that impressed u as being "out of the fold" advertising? I am asking cause I haven't seen anything here in Italy suggesting that D&D 3rd Ed is coming out (nothing pretty clear to EVERYONE! THe rumor has started in the gaming field since last year, but WotC said they were interested in attracting NEW players and making a new generations of RPG fans...) Nothing, not even the release of D&D The Movie has been advertised, and I pretty much counted on that being released for October worldwide, as a mega-combo to attract the viewers to the new D&D guides just released.. but it seems it's been scheduled for Xmas or even next year... anybody knows the truth? DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 18:10:54 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is what i always suspected would happen. now people can understand my belief that i should just stick with OD&D and save myself a small fortune. mortus. > You know, I thought the whole purpose of 3E was to get away from this > situation, where DMs wishing to have the full gaming experience at their > fingertips had to purchase a veritable library of sourcebooks. What do I > hear now: > > 1. Player's Guide > 2. DM's Guide > 3. Monster Manual > 4. FR book for more advanced players (and I agree this would be > force-feeding Fr on a new generation of gamers - my opinion, of course) > 5. a rumoured book on psionics > > What else....? > > I don't know, but it looks to me as thought 3E is only repackaging the old > "problem". All my opinion, of course. > > Geoff ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:26:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff I would like anything you care to make available. i just can't get enough information on mystara. i'm a mystara junkie. even though i currently don't play there. so please put up some more info and you shall take another step toward true godhood in my eyes. i already rank you close to he who i proclaim the one true god of mystara. all hail bruce heard. thanks. mortus. > >Hey, BTW, any chance that you'd put more info up on the > >Mystara site about Davania (esp. northwest Davania!) and > >Denagoth that keys in with your maps? Please? > > I'd be happy to. What sort of info would you (or anyone else, for that > matter) be looking for? I have some material already written (sort of) > for some of northern Davania, but some of it's earmarked for the Almanac. > Would you like to know more about the old ruins dotting the area? Anything > else? > > As for Denagoth, well, Marco Dalmonte is the main authority there > (Almanac-wise anyways), so I'll pass the buck to him. ;-) Your turn, > Marco..... > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:11:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tothian mystical traditions could also have spread into the thyatian empire, through the areas of the isle of dawn that were taken after alphatia sank. mortus. > To round out my earlier suggestions: Sindian mystical traditions should > have spread to Darokin with the refugees fleeing the Master's conquest > of that nation, and Thothian mystical traditions should have spread > throughout the Alphatian Empire. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:14:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Generic adventures? (was: Why was Greyhawk Beau wrote: > That's the new rule for "Dungeon" adventures, and I think I've seen some >WotC pros allude to the idea that the (generic) Adventure Path modules >would be done the same way, or be "minimally" linked to any given world. As >I plan to buy "Sunless Citadel" and "Forge of Fury," this is good news to me. I think so too. At least a development like this might allow the gaming audience a chance to lobby adventure writers to include at least a token reference to Mystara. If so, and if such a move does become standard operating procedure for generic modules, then maybe we have a shot at putting Mystara's name in print (sort of) once more, and WotC might get a few extra customers in the bargain. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:24:22 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Generic adventures? (was: Why was Greyhawk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if you do get them let the rest of us know how generic they are please. mortus. > At 11:14 08/18/2000 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: > > >Therein lies the problem, I guess. One would think that > >professionally-made adventures would sell well, but since, as you point > >out, they are of interest only to DMs, well, that's only part of the > >market. Does anyone know if generic modules outperform setting-specific > >ones, sales-wise? If so, one way out might be to produce generic modules, > >with a special section at the end, maybe no more than a page in length, > >providing ideas as to where in each campaign world it could be placed. > > > >ie: "This adventure could be staged in Silvanost in Dragonlance, Alfheim > >or Shiye-Lawr in Mystara, and blah blah blah....." And perhaps specific > >NPCs could have alternate names or magic items - as deemed appropriate to > >that world. > > That's the new rule for "Dungeon" adventures, and I think I've seen some > WotC pros allude to the idea that the (generic) Adventure Path modules > would be done the same way, or be "minimally" linked to any given world. As > I plan to buy "Sunless Citadel" and "Forge of Fury," this is good news to me. > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:34:53 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Tortle soup In-Reply-To: <3f.929fb6b.26ceda76@aol.com>; from ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM on Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 02:29:10PM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 02:29:10PM -0400, SR Johnson wrote: > Beau, now I feel bad for spearheading this vicious trend of discussing "Spicy > Hin dishes and other recipes". On arriving at Hinmeet it is customary to ask for Hinmeat Burgers... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:35:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <00df01c00950$e7bb0140$e5db869f@pbncomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:10 08/18/2000 +0100, jason o'brien wrote: >this is what i always suspected would happen. >now people can understand my belief that i should just stick with OD&D and >save myself a small fortune. Well, since you don't play Forgotten Realms or use psionics, there shouldn't be any surprises on that list. Did you really not expect there to be three core books? >> You know, I thought the whole purpose of 3E was to get away from this >> situation, where DMs wishing to have the full gaming experience at their >> fingertips had to purchase a veritable library of sourcebooks. What do I >> hear now: >> >> 1. Player's Guide >> 2. DM's Guide >> 3. Monster Manual >> 4. FR book for more advanced players (and I agree this would be >> force-feeding Fr on a new generation of gamers - my opinion, of course) >> 5. a rumoured book on psionics BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:48:22 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: The Afterlife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Erik Waddell wrote: > Just expressing my preference for the Basic D&D rules (and rules = cyclopedia).. ad&d is good for reference material (i use the AD&D spell = list, it's longer than the one in the cyclopedia). I guess the most 'official' D&D rules for 'the afterlife' were in one of = the Voyage of the Princess Ark articles that appeared in Dragon Magazine = several years ago (I really can't recall which one). It detailed a = 'Limbo' where souls (I think they were souls) went, when you died. You = had to earn passage further beyond, and could bargain with pieces of = your 'essence' or some such. There were some discussion of this on the = list a while back; you could find it if you checked the Archives = (wherever they're located these days)... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:53:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Un-Familiar Familiars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a familiar for a Glantri Wizard (level 1.. so a dragon is a bad idea)? What about stories of how familiars worked out in your own campaign? Well, one of my favorite familliars in literature comes from the Moorcock novels about Courm. One of the characters has a small black and white cat, normal in all respects, except it has blackfeathered wings. It was a terror to small birds and mice. One reason I liked it is that it had a high fantasy element (suitabler for Glantri) and yet would act like a cat and wouldn't be hard to DM. So maybe try an otherwise 'normal' animal but give it a small tweek that lets your player feel unique without going crazy combat stat-wise. Examples might be: A blink toad Small mouse/rat with telekenetic ability to steal crumbs A sindian chimp immune to fire (snuggles up in the hearth when at home) A ferret with spiderclimb ability (runs around on walls and ceilings) None of these is a game breaker, but is fun to have around. Other suggestions? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:29:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:53 08/18/2000 EDT, Master's Pawn wrote: >Does anyone have any interesting ideas for a familiar for a Glantri Wizard >(level 1.. so a dragon is a bad idea)? What about stories of how familiars >worked out in your own campaign? > >Well, one of my favorite familliars in literature comes from the Moorcock novels about Courm. One of the characters has a small black and white cat, normal in all respects, except it has blackfeathered wings. It was a terror to small birds and mice. One reason I liked it is that it had a high fantasy element (suitabler for Glantri) and yet would act like a cat and wouldn't be hard to DM. So maybe try an otherwise 'normal' animal but give it a small tweek that lets your player feel unique without going crazy combat stat-wise. Winged cats actually got a write-up for the Forgotten Realms. "Tressim" or something. They are neat, though. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 18:41:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/18/00 3:35:20 PM Central Daylight Time, jobo@EIRCOM.NET writes: > tothian mystical traditions could also have spread into the thyatian empire, > through the areas of the isle of dawn that were taken after alphatia sank. Heh...Gladiators AND boxers too...Pankreas anyone? JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:25:24 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Why was Greyhawk resurrected? Just read here... In-Reply-To: <079c01c008a8$b73055a0$2582e33f@thedeadlands> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:10 PM 8/17/00 -0600, you wrote: >SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... > > >> > 5. a rumoured book on psionics >> >> Not rumored. It seems to be almost a done deal. > >Hell, its listed on Amazon: > >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0786918357/ericnoahsunoffdu/103-13576 >28-3707045 There's also a 3E Psionics rumor site (can't recall the URL offhand, but it can be accessed from Eric's page- http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3E). Quite a bit of information on that page already, actually. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Ierendi In-Reply-To: <5a.983bbd1.26ccca93@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:56 AM 8/17/00 EDT, you wrote: > >I beg to differ -- somebody (who I think is still on this list) posted a Web >page that offered an alternate Ierendian history that was very well thought >out. Unfortunately, I lost the URL for it. That alternate history does not >totally eliminate the "touristy" aspects, but makes them part of a larger >cover-up of the "true" history. Check out my page- http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/cthulhudrew/mystara.html On the page on the timeline of the Sea of Dread, I've reproduced that article, and provided a link to it at the bottom of the page as well. Don't recall the author (it was Jenni, Jenn, or Sharon, IIRC), but it's also on Shawn's page. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:32:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000817062928.007b3e90@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:29 AM 8/17/00 -0700, you wrote: > Who was it that dubbed me the list's Five Shires expert? > Check out the example male names for halflings in the 3E PHB ... I laughed >my head off. That was me, but I don't have a copy of the PHB yet- probably pick one up this weekend. Why, is Beau listed as a halfling name? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:32:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Love halflings and they'll love you back In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000817113259.007df980@pop.wans.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:32 08/17/2000 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote: >At 06:29 AM 8/17/00 -0700, you wrote: >> Who was it that dubbed me the list's Five Shires expert? >> Check out the example male names for halflings in the 3E PHB ... I >laughed >>my head off. > >That was me, but I don't have a copy of the PHB yet- probably pick one up >this weekend. Why, is Beau listed as a halfling name? It's the second choice under male halfling names. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:58:42 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: The Afterlife Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who sings this song? It was a really cool song, but I forgot whom sung it. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:03:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In AD&D1, they had some intersting ones like a Quasit, Imp, Faerie Dragon, Brownie, etc. There was even a percentage to get one of these special familiars as opposed to the normal set. However, these can be exchanged for native Mystaran creatures such as creatures from Dreamland or creatures from Top Balista. For elementalist, they can have elemental familiars. In Al Qadim, there are descriptions of elemental familiars. I thought these are a nice fit for Ylaruam mages, except perhaps fire elementalists. It is most interesting to have invisible familiars that the wizard talks to, making other PCs thinking the wizard is insane. ^_^ HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:12:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:03 08/18/2000 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >In Al Qadim, there are descriptions of elemental familiars. I thought these are a nice fit for Ylaruam mages, except perhaps fire elementalists. There are? Do you mean gens (which are, yeah, super cool)? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:30:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Scaring your players Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow. That is good. One thing I dislike about D&D (or AD&D, OD&D, AD&D2, D&D3E, etc.) is that every monster is some sort of statistic. I like to add character to the monsters. But I can only do so much. The players begged for skill point options (from Skills & Powers), but what they don't know is about kolbolds optional powers. Heee, Heee, Heee. Many of the tougher monsters, can have specialization, be a few levels stronger, and maybe perhaps have a few powers. NPC humans have this, why not the monsters? And for creatures like undead, werewolves, and vampires, I like to use material from Ravenloft Netbook. Some good stuff there to add some horror into Mystara, especially for Traladara (Karameikos). HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:42:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ok, So I read through the _entire_ 3e PHB, and I love it! Everything is so nice and gushy-good, even my friend who is a White Wolf fanatic said that the system is nice. Except two things. 1) Why do 20th level wizards only get 4 spells per level per day? Sorcerers get 6 per level per day, and Clerics get ~6 including domain spells. I understand that Sorcerers have a handicap in the number of spells they know, but this is insane! 2 more per level per day seems a bit hefty at the highest level. They could have at least allowed wizards to learn some more lower level spells as they increase in level. I don't know about AD&D2, but I know Magic Users in oD&D had a lot more than 40 spells/day at 20th level. What gives? If I'm spending my life researching spells, I'd better be able to cast more than 4 spells/level! Can anyone give me a reason? Reason I ask: My favorite character, a 36th-level oD&D M-U that I would like to update. But simply making him a 20th level 3e wizard won't do him justice. He's got over 20 times the experience points needed, and has 81 spells/day. Dropping him down to 40 just seems wrong somehow. 2) Sorcerer/Wizard multiclassing. How does that work? Do you only get a limited choice of memorized spells in addition to your natural powers? Too munchkin? Any ideas? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:42:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Other Magic for D&D3E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's Divine and Arcane magic. However, I thought of some other magic types that could prove interesting for mystara. Alchemy - Use spells but through application of potions, powders, cream, ointments, etc. Psionic - Use spells but through the power of the mind which are regenerated. The spells levels would be power levels of a given ability. Telepathy and ESP would be two such spells in this category. Rune - Etched runes contain the power of these spells. This is especially useful for Northern Reaches. The Viking Campaign Sourcebook even specified a "RuneCaster" class, however it's magic system was a seperate system. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:44:18 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Mystara Products for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me too --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:41:04 erewan laubgaenger wrote: >Annelise Johnsen wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> I've now sent out e-mails containing the list of products I'm selling. If >> anyone has e-mailed me, and not received any mail from me, pX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 >> Thanks > >send it to me. too. >IBON > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:06:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:03:29 Darth Darknerd wrote: >In AD&D1, they had some intersting ones like a Quasit, Imp, Faerie Dragon, Brownie, etc. There was even a percentage to get one of these special familiars as opposed to the normal set. > Some very similar familiars are described in Dragon issue 200 (and consequently on the Dragon Archieves cd-rom, too), though only wizards above 9th level have a chance to get them. People interested in familiars should also check out the Familiar Enhancer spells. I believe they were originally described in Dragon 181 or 182, so they must be on the cd too. These spells are also in the Wizard's Spell Compendium in a slightly revised form. >However, these can be exchanged for native Mystaran creatures such as creatures from Dreamland or creatures from Top Balista. For elementalist, they can have elemental familiars. In Al Qadim, there are descriptions of elemental familiars. I thought these are a nice fit for Ylaruam mages, except perhaps fire elementalists. It is most interesting to have invisible familiars that the wizard talks to, making other PCs thinking the wizard is insane. ^_^ > Don't forget the specific familiars for Mystara from the 2e Mystara Monstrous Compendium appendix, p.41-42. If you want tough familiars, then look no further - these critters are *nasty*! - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:27:17 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: The Afterlife MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I guess the most 'official' D&D rules for 'the afterlife' were in one of the Voyage of the Princess Ark articles that appeared in Dragon Magazine several years ago (I really can't recall which one). Issue 180 IIRC Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 03:47:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Find Familiar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What about stories of how familiars worked out in your own campaign? > Naming your familiar is also important. Male cats should be called Tome, and ravens called Quoth. Don't forget that your Glantriian will have to either join or employ a member of the Monster Handling Guild or there could be dire consequences. In one game I ran the player, despite being warned, did neither. When the guild showed up with the law he still refused to follow the rules. Since they had the legal right the guild smoked the offending familiar. The mage survived the loss fortunately. Same group once tried to pretend to be beggars when questioned as to what they were doing by the watch. Imagine their horror to be arrested for not having a valid begging licence. Personally I love the sheer paranoia that trying to get a licence can bring to PCs. Just which faction will assume they've been added to the lists of enemies, because they must have friends to get such a licence, has led to people occasionally giving up the magic item or creature or whatnot since it's less hassle. Then there's always the Infernal Revenue Service asking questions about just how such and such an item came into the characters possession. Glantri the only place where "the prince" is top of both the must read and banned booklists ;^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:19:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" SteelAngel wrote: > 1) > Why do 20th level wizards only get 4 spells per level per day? At a guess, I'd say "balance". WOTC reps emphasized that one of the new features of 3e was that all classes were balanced with each other at all levels, which means that a 20th level thief should be able to go toe-to-toe with a 20th level wizard and have an even match. Also, this was probably done to distinguish wizards from Sorcerers to some degree. > I understand that Sorcerers have a handicap in the number of > spells they know, but this is insane! 2 more per level per > day seems a bit hefty at the highest level. They could have > at least allowed wizards to learn some more lower level > spells as they increase in level. Yeah, I agree. What Sorcerer is *not* going to take Wish at 9th level? I'll a take a Sorcerer with 6 wishes over a Wizard with 4 wishes any day! Oh well, 4th ed will be out in about 10 years and fix these problems. :-P > Reason I ask: My favorite character, a 36th-level oD&D M-U that > I would like to update. But simply making him a 20th level 3e > wizard won't do him justice. He's got over 20 times the experience > points needed, and has 81 spells/day. Dropping him down to 40 just > seems wrong somehow. Wait for the "high-level campaigns" book to be announced? No real good ideas here. You can easily extend the 3e experience table and hit dice up to any arbitrary level, but the spell table for wizards seems to pretty clearly set a limit of 4 spells per level. IIRC the official guidelines are to convert levels 1:1. Why not convert your 36th level wizard to a multiclassed 18th level Wizard, 18th level Sorcerer? That will give him roughly the same spells per day. > 2) > Sorcerer/Wizard multiclassing. How does that work? Do you only get a > limited choice of memorized spells in addition to your natural powers? > Too munchkin? Any ideas? After thinking about it, here's what I came up with. You have different spells slots and spell lists for each class. For example, consider a Wizard-1/Sorcerer-1 (for simplicity). The character looks something like this: Wizard 1: 1 cantrips, 1 first-level spell Spellbook: All cantrips; Sleep, Alarm, Hold Portal, Identify, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, True Strike Sorcerer 1: 5 cantrips, 3 first-level spells Cantrips Known: Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Ray of Frost 1st-level Spells Known: Magic Missile, True Strike My interpretation is that this character could cast 3 magic missiles as a sorcerer, and one additional as a wizard. But he could only case *one* Sleep spell, because it isn't in his Sorcerer spell list. Even though he knows Sleep well enough to prepare it as a wizard, he does not have the intuitive knowledge to use it as a Sorcerer. Conversely, while he has intuitive knowledge of Magic Missile, he can only manage 3 per day on the fly; to do more he has to prepare it as a normal wizard does. A character multiclassed in this way is probably going to only take his favorite spells as a Sorcerer, and only those spells which will be useful throughout his career, while saving the less favored and less useful spells for use as a wizard. I would also guess that any spell usable as a Sorcerer is also usable as a wizard (since he might as well copy it into his spellbook while learning it). Wizard/Sorcerer is a good combination, but it's not necessarily "better" or "more munchkin". A Wizard-10/Sorcerer-10 will have more spontaneous magic than a pure Wizard-20, but much less flexibility, and will not have access to higher level spells. He'll have a broader selection of available spells than a Sorcerer-20, but fewer spell slots, severe restrictions on using that broader selection, but again won't have access to higher level spells. Also, I doubt I'll see very many Sorcerer-2/Wizard-10 type characters (supposed to represent youthful talent, later enhanced by mature scholarship), because of the 20% XP penalty for unbalanced classes. Granted, that 20% only represents one level at most, but it's still a penalty. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 20:52:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'm addressing the question about OD&D vs. 3E MU/wizards and spellcasting charts. Despite the "[OT]" in the original subject, I don't think this is off topic. OD&D is chartered as on-topic to the list, and a comparison of OD&D and 3E necessarily involves OD&D, and is especially important when considering what to do about high level PC/NPC MUs on Mystara if one is converting to 3E. Sorcerors get more spells to cast because they can only know very few spells. I don't think getting to cast 2 more per level per day is insane given how limited their selection becomes. Clerics get more spells via domains, but Wizards can get them too by being specialists. All the classes are supposed to be balanced in 3E. In OD&D and AD&D they are not. A 20th level magic-user in OD&D is more powerful than a 20th level OD&D fighter. Look at the experience tables. For the four basic classes (thief, cleric, fighter, magic-user), MUs need the highest XP to be at a given level. If you take the average XP needed for 20th level for those four classes, you have enough XP to make a 17th level MU. So an OD&D MU with enough XP to be 20th level will be higher than 20th level in 3E, and have more spells. 20th level is not the ultimate cap. There will be rules for higher level casters, so you needn't necessarily consider 36th level OD&D MUs as 20th level 3E wizards. 3E wizards get access to higher spell levels sooner, which should be taken into account. A 20th level 3E wizard can cast 4 9th level spells per day. A 20th level OD&D MU can cast no 90th level spells, and only 2 8th level spells. If you correct for the new XP system, that OD&D MU should probably be more like 17th level, which would give him NEITHER 8th NOR 9th level spells. 3E wizards get cantrips. OD&D MUs get none. In 3E, wizards get bonus spells for high intelligence. In OD&D they do not, even though they will probably have high intelligence anyway. So your "average" wizard in 3E will have more spells than you think, especially because he can increase his INT up to 5 points by 20th level (if he puts all of his ability increases into INT). What would you say the average INT of an OD&D MU is? Perhaps 15 or 16? Maybe higher? With 5 points to add to abilities by 20th level, I think a 3E wizard will have at least an 18 intelligence. That gives an extra spell of levels 1-4. So let's compare the spellcasting ability of two roughly equivalent mages in OD&D and 3E. At the same experience level, the OD&D MU will probably be 17th level, with INT irrelevant, while the 3E wizard will be 20th level, with an INT of 18, easily... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 OD&D 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 3E 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 This ignores the fact that 3E wizards get cantrips. It also ignores the possiblity that the 3E wizard is a specialist, in which case he gets an extra spell at every level. Hands down, the 3E 20th level wizard has more spellcasting power than his OD&D counterpart. What to do about high level OD&D MUs when switching to 3E? Well, there is room for higher levels in 3E, we just don't have definitive rules yet. See Eric Noah's site http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/ and somewhere (on the messageboards if nowhere else) you'll see WoTC's tentative plans for high level characters). You might think a 20th level wizard in 3E is more powerful than an OD&D equivalent, or just that it has a different tradeoff in terms of number of spells and highest spell level, so maybe you don't want to use a 1-to-1 level conversion. In that case, you can use the Rules Cyclopedia guide and call each 3 OD&D levels above 12 as 1 3E level. This gives you 10th 3E level at 36th OD&D level. I don't like this idea because I think the classes are balanced differently enough that it just doesn't work that easily. I've decided to go 1-for-1, and use high level rules when they come out (or fabricate my own), but you could go in between, or just eyeball it and decide what level you think your OD&D MU should be in 3E based on how tough you think he'd be relative to everyone else. Phew, this was long! Good luck! Magus Coeruleus of Mystara dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:55:57 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Other Magic for D&D3E MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/18/00 7:53:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << Psionic - Use spells but through the power of the mind which are regenerated. The spells levels would be power levels of a given ability. Telepathy and ESP would be two such spells in this category. >> There will be a 3E Psionics book out in the first quarter of 2001... March, IIRC. There's more info on Eric Noah's website. James A. Mishler Magister Mystaros Mystara Lives! Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:45:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Gardea Subject: DMing is Like Dealing Drugs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Want to start your campaign with a bang? Consider burning >Kelvin >(in Karameikos) to a crisp! hence was born the KFC chain of restaurants... Karemeikos Fried Chicken we thought this up some time ago now we have a background.. geo ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:10:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000818202453.00bbbc70@cogsci.ucsd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Two errata in my long post. Where you see 90th level spell (!) I meant 9th level, of course. When I said RC conversion makes a 36th level MU = 10th level wizard, I meant 20th level wizard. My apologies, Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 00:17:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Kerameikos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed My friend (and one of my players recently went to Greece and told me about a section of Athens called Kerameikos. I thought some of you might find this of mild interest. Hmmm...Petra's symbol mistakenly taken for a potter's wheel, they say? http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21103a/e211ca01.html Kerameikos was named after the community of the potters (kerameis) who occupied the whole area along the banks of river Eridanos. The walls of Athens, which were constructed in the 5th century B.C. by Themistocles, divided the area into two sections, the "inner" and "outer" Kerameikos. The wall had two gates, Dipylon and the Sacred Gate, placed at the outset of the two most important processional roads of Athens, the Panathenaic Way which led to the Acropolis, and the Sacred Way which led to Eleusis. Outside the city walls, along the sides of both roads lay the official cemetery of the city, which was continuously used from the 9th century B.C. until the late Roman period. Magus Coeruleus of Mystara / ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \ < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > \ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ / ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 23:30:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It evens out. Early on, a low-level fighter can probably kill a low-level magic-user in OD&D. That they get more powerful than any other class is balanced - they require much more experience, for a start, and have a harder time at low-levels. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:48:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Richard Tongue Subject: Re: OD&DITIES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OD&DITIES Issue 2 is now avaliable, if anyone is interested. Can be found at www. tongue. fsnet. co. uk ( do not include the spaces after each dot I put in - they were just to ensure it would be entered in text, not html. ) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:14:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000818202453.00bbbc70@cogsci.ucsd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, David S. Leland wrote: > intelligence. That gives an extra spell of levels 1-4. > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > OD&D 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 > 3E 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 Granted. But the same applies to 3e Sorcerers. Look at those tables: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 3e W 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3e S 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 OD&D 6 5 5 4 3 2 An exteremely charismatic sorcerer has a huge spell tree. Load him up with only powerful attacking spells, and a few weapon skills, and he's a powerhouse. Not to mention the 6 wishes per day. In raw magic strength, the sorcerer is a lot more powerful. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:31:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Errata: On the 3e sorcerer table, I'm allowing for a sorcerer with high charisma (I think that's how it works) Ethan - Moving from oD&D to 3e is _hard_. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:06:12 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) heh...Gladiators AND boxers too...Pankreas anyone? Pankration, I think its spelled (but I suck at spelling). And yah, its likely that in their eclectcism, love of combat skills, and fostering of gladiators with exotic styles, Thyatis is likely to have "monastic" orders (heck, with its love of fighting orders, its likely to have monastic orders). BUT - But this: 3E Monks are an "open" class, not a "prestige" class, meaning its a class, IMO, that can be available in any nation where it suits the needs and desires of the players & DM in any given campaign. Order of Monks for a Ylari character? Why not, just create a suitable backstory, with a order in the deep desert, or hills, or wherever. Order of Monks for a Soderfjord character? Sounds pretty odd, but its a fantasy world - odd is de rigur. How about an Order of Monks in New Kolland, for 'Noids? Sounds really bizzare, but thats what will make it fun. IMO, the only sorts of 3E classes that are *intended* to have, potentially, regional restrictions would be "Prestige Classes". Sorcerers, Wizards, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers - and, yes, Monks, are to be found all over (though they might indeed be rarer or more common in certain areas - thats different. But rareness won't prevent a PC from, say Karameikos, from playing a Monk - and being an exotic, and thus more interesting, character because of it). Folks just need to work to come up with a suitably creative backstory reason for the "Monastic Order of the Traldar Way" or whatever (perhaps, after the initial Traldaran revolt against Stefan, for a short time the Traldarans were prohibited from owning weapons. During that time, a Traldaran trader who had travelled extensively in Sind, and learned much of their exotic fighting styles, founded an "underground" academy to teach these skills along with his own philosophical interpretations to his fellow Traldarans. Though it didn't ! ! take long before Stefan decided to recind the decree limiting ownership of weapons to Traldarans, and indeed he started cultivating the fighting skills of Traldarans, this "Monastic Order of the Traldar Way" became fairly popular, at least among some Traldarans. Now, 30 - 40 years later, it is a flourishing Order of Monks, and, ironically, is supported by the Karameikos family). Thus, viola, an order of Monks in Karameikos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:38:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: 3E Musings Wizard's & Spell Progression: 4 spells per level at 20th level, plus bonuses for Int, it amazes me that some folks are complaining this isn't enough. Sorcerers & Wishes: Yah, right. I think you're forgetting that each Wish you cast has an XP cost in 3E, and not a small one: at 5,000 XP per Wish, cast too many and you'll soon lose the ability to cast them at all. Class Act: After getting the PH & this month's Dragon (with the Duelist Prestige Class included), I was pondering what Thincol the Brave might look like in 3E terms: Thincol the Brave - L.20 Fighter, L.8 Barbarian, L.8 Duelist. They said Thincol was the greatest warrior of his age, 3E would certainly allow one to model that better, IMO, than "he's a 36th level Fighter with decent stats" did. Nothing against OD&D, though (so far I'm finding these 3E rules both interesting and bizzare, actually. I'm not sure what to make of it all yet). Levels & Experience: Given how different the Exp chart is (one can make it to 20th level with about the amount of experience points it used to take to make it to 20th), people (like me) used to granting experience under the "old" rules will have to be very careful and re-learn how many XPs to hand out, otherwise people will get to 20th level aweful quick. Art: Some of the stuff looks almost cyberpunk. Plus, is it just me, or do some of the elves look almost "Elfquest"? Especially p.52. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:24:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-18 6:13:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: > A sindian chimp immune to fire (snuggles up in the hearth when at home) The tabi might work for this one if it had few hit dice. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:24:43 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-18 11:22:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: > IIRC the official guidelines are to convert levels 1:1. Why not convert your > 36th level wizard to a multiclassed 18th level Wizard, 18th level Sorcerer? > That will give him roughly the same spells per day. Another possibility might be to make him a 20th level wizard and then take the high level extra spells option (among others) several times. By a straight level conversion he would be able to select from 16 high level options -- and if we use the cleric class as an XP basis a 3th level wizard would effectively be about 50th level and thus entitled to 30 or so high level options. > Also, I doubt I'll see very many Sorcerer-2/Wizard-10 type characters > (supposed to represent youthful talent, later enhanced by mature > scholarship), because of the 20% XP penalty for unbalanced classes. Granted, > that 20% only represents one level at most, but it's still a penalty. But humans with only two classes don't have to worry about that penalty. The real question is whether Mystara should have human or demi-human sorcerers -- there has already been a fair amount of inconclusive debate on that issue. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:24:46 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 11:17:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > How about an Order of Monks in New Kolland, for 'Noids? Sounds really bizzare, > but thats what will make it fun. According to PC 10, that one is really easy to justify. The recommended initial skill for Yellow Orcs is "Martial Arts". In addition, the most recent Mystaran Almanac actually mentioned some Orc Mystics in the vicinity of the City States. So goblinoid Monks/Mystics would be quite possible for any goblinoids who are able to get the proper training from their friendly neighborhood Yellow Orc sensei.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:40:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 8:40:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Wizard's & Spell Progression: 4 spells per level at 20th level, plus bonuses for Int, it amazes me that some folks are complaining this isn't enough. >> Don't forget to include an addition bonus spell if your a specialist wizard, and the fact that when you could bump your intelligence 5 points by 20th, which would give you even *more* bonus spells. That doesn't even include any spells you could cast from scrolls you've made or found, or spell-like abilities of magic items... Sorcerers may get extra spells, but go back and look at their spell progression. They're spell progression, in regards to the highest level spell they can cast, doesn't catch up to that of a wizard until 18th level. That can be a pretty hefty disadvantage at low levels, which should more than make up for any extra spells they might get IMO. << Sorcerers & Wishes: Yah, right. I think you're forgetting that each Wish you cast has an XP cost in 3E, and not a small one: at 5,000 XP per Wish, cast too many and you'll soon lose the ability to cast them at all. >> One small correction there, you can't actually spend so much XP that you loose a level. As for wish itself, I've never been a big fan of putting such a powerful spell in the hands of PCs, so in my games Wish and Limited Wish are next to impossible to find and learn, much less cast. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:03:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 9:46:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << But humans with only two classes don't have to worry about that penalty. The real question is whether Mystara should have human or demi-human sorcerers -- there has already been a fair amount of inconclusive debate on that issue. >> I don't see why not. The Progeny of Glantri make perfect candidates for sorcerers, and if they exist, it's not to far fetched to assume there are other creatures roaming the Known World who might fit into the mold of a sorcerer who's power comes from an inhuman heritage. Other types of sorcerers that might exist are those who are in-tune with the Radiance, blessed by Immortals or on the path to Immortality, or simply those who have overcome the limits of memorizing spells through sheer determination. No one ever said they all had to be the products of magical bloodlines, so I'm sure there would be plenty of 'valid' ways to incorporate them into Mystara. - Deldain - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:07:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: 3E Musings >> One small correction there, you can't actually spend so much XP that you loose a level. << I stand corrected, thanks. Still, point remains: 5,000 XPs may not sound like a lot to those of us who are still used to seeing high-level characters with XP totals of a million or multiple millions (I can see the reaction now "5,00 XPs? That's nothin' when you're 20th level!), but 5,000 XPs is a lot in 3E. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:07:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: 3E Marketing question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Nothing, not even the release of D&D The Movie has been advertised, and I > pretty much counted on that being released for October worldwide, as a > mega-combo to attract the viewers to the new D&D guides just released.. but > it seems it's been scheduled for Xmas or even next year... anybody knows > the truth? I think the D&D movie has been swept under the rug for being so terminally bad (at least, thats the rumour I have heard). Even if it turns out to be good, I seriously doubt many people other than D&Ders will go and see it anyway... Re. advertising - well, I only knew about 3E because of what came out in Dragon. (and the net of course). I remember what first got me playing oD&D ages ago - an ad on the back of a Transformers comic (ahh, those were the days). Advertising on comics and stuff seems like a good idea, but I dont think TSR do that any more. Though they use the C-RPGs they release like Baldurs Gate to keep some level of exposure there. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:17:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 10:12:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << 5,000 XPs may not sound like a lot to those of us who are still used to seeing high-level characters with XP totals of a million or multiple millions (I can see the reaction now "5,00 XPs? That's nothin' when you're 20th level!), but 5,000 XPs is a lot in 3E. >> I completely agree. I'm curious to hear more on what people think of spells with XP components. Is it better than the old restrictions on spells like Wish or is it worse? Personally I'm all in favor of XP cost as a component in powerful spells. I've been considering reworking Ressurection, Raise Dead, and similiar spells to include an XP cost, since I think bring a character back form the dead should be a little more costly... - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:26:36 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Mystara Cosmology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got around to catching up some of the news scoops on Eric Noah's page, and one scoop about the new FR book really caught my attention. In the new book, the cosmology of the realms is going to break away from the standard 'wheel' model previously used as the cosmological standard. The new Realms cosmology is going to be set up as a tree, with the prime as the base, the home of the gods as the branches, and I suppose the various elemental planes will be placed as the roots (just a guess). Which made start wondering, is their any such model for the planes that can be accessed from Mystara? I haven't really done a lot of research involving planar travel in the setting, and the only mention of it I recall is that it tied into the 5 Spheres. So is the a model to go buy? Perhaps something presented in WotI (which I really, really need to get soon) that explains it? Any info would be helpful. Hopefully the new Mannual of the Planes will be out soon enough (probably next year) and it will offer some good ideas, but until then, anyone have any ideas/suggestions for or knowledge regarding the the basic structure of Mystara's cosomology? -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:37:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Question about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/18/00 10:22:43 PM Central Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: > Yeah, I agree. What Sorcerer is *not* going to take Wish at 9th level? I'll > a take a Sorcerer with 6 wishes over a Wizard with 4 wishes any day! Oh > well, 4th ed will be out in about 10 years and fix these problems. :-P Well, maybe...but thats one less 9th level spell you're able to cast. Period. And with a 5,000xp price tag on each of those wishes (or more), why anyone would consider a wish in 3E an everyday type of spell. A Wizard in 3E can get a lot more mileage from Wish because he doesn't have any spell limitations, while a 3E Sorcerer might end up using Wish to duplicate spells that he doesn't have access to. 30,000xp to cast 6 wishes in one day does seem to be a little bit of a problem for our hypothetical sorcerer though,. As far as the Sorcerer/Wizard goes, the only reason that anyone would get a 20%XP penalty would be if they weren't human (humans highest level is invisible as far as consideration for multiclassing penalties is concerned) or elves (wizard being a favored class of elves means they don't consider their Wizard class levels when applying the penalties). Even the gnome, by 3E rules, could be a specialist Wizard(illusionist)/Sorcerer and never apply that nasty little penalty. Obviously, a lot more Mystara flavor needs to be inserted into 3E before it will feel right for everyone's tastes. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:43:07 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 1:22:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > I completely agree. I'm curious to hear more on what people think of spells > with XP components. Is it better than the old restrictions on spells like > Wish or is it worse? It is certainly better than aging or permant ability score loss as a cost, and it provides a positive incentive for spellcasters who want to create magic items or cast Wish spells and the like to go adventuring -- they have to make up for the XPs that they burn when they do these things if they want to be able to keep doing them. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 13:52:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara Cosmology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 1:32:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > Which made start wondering, is their any such model for the planes that can > be accessed from Mystara? I haven't really done a lot of research involving > planar travel in the setting, and the only mention of it I recall is that it > tied into the 5 Spheres. > > So is the a model to go buy? Perhaps something presented in WotI (which I > really, really need to get soon) that explains it? Any info would be helpful. According to WotI, the Prime, Ethereal, and Inner Planes have pretty much the same arrangement as the standard AD&D cosmology, although there are no Quasi- or Para-Elemental planes or Positive/Negative Energy planes described and the Elemental planes have a "Circle of Dominance" (Air over Water over Fire over Earth over Air) rather than the standard static structure. The Astral Plane is accessible from the Ethereal Plane and not directly to the Prime Plane. Most Outer Planes (of which only the five major planes associated with the five Spheres are well defined) are accessible via the Astral Plane, with no particular order to the arrange- ment -- for example, the standard arrangement based on alignment does not exist. If two Outer Planes are connected, it is because the Immortals who created them wanted to establish a connection. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:03:20 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Martins?= Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 8/19/00 10:12:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > > << 5,000 XPs may not sound like a lot to those of us who are still used to > seeing high-level characters with XP totals of a million or multiple millions > (I can see the reaction now "5,00 XPs? That's nothin' when you're 20th > level!), but 5,000 XPs is a lot in 3E. >> > > I completely agree. I'm curious to hear more on what people think of spells > with XP components. Is it better than the old restrictions on spells like > Wish or is it worse? > > Personally I'm all in favor of XP cost as a component in powerful spells. > I've been considering reworking Ressurection, Raise Dead, and similiar spells > to include an XP cost, since I think bring a character back form the dead > should be a little more costly... I see one problem that I don't like, based on the fact that you can't lose a level that way. If that is so, as a character advances, there would be dead zones, when he can not cast those spells each time he advances and that makes no sense to me. The reason is very simple, if you have just reached a new level and has only 2,000 XP more than the limit for your new level, you can't afford to spend the 5,000 XP to cast that spell. You need to gain more experience for that, wich would be ok if it were the first time you have access for that spell, but such a situation woul repeat each time you advance a level. And that's what I don't like. As you advance and supposedly gains more power, sometimes you can and suddenly you can't cast a spell. This sounds like game mechanics getting in the way of how the world would work. Personally, I think a xp cost would work fine, as long as we drop the limitation that one can not lose a level by the expenditure. Therefore, you can always cast it as you advance, but sometimes the casting will make you a little weaker, what sounds good to me. A tough decision, but no dead areas for that spell. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:26:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberryJAMM)" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: [OT] 3E Specialist Wizards (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Deldain: I have a question that's been bugging me lately, but maybe you can answer it. I was reading through my 3E PH trying to find out /why/ anyone would want to be a specialist wizard, and I couldn't find /anything/. However you (and others) have made comments like the following Lord Deldain wrote: > Don't forget to include an addition bonus spell if your a specialist wizard, Can you quote the passage (with page number) in the 3E PH that makes this clear? I know that in the /description/ area it says something about "gaining access to more spells in your chosen area of specialization" but I couldn't find anything in the Game Rules section that QUANTIFIED that statement. Please Help! Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:30:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I considered your question/comment to be two-fold. One issue being OD&D MU power vs. 3E wizard power, and the other being 3E wizard power vs. 3E sorceror power. My little chart was to address the first issue. I was sparse in my argument regarding the second issue, because I think it is perfectly reasonable that sorcerors get more spells since they have a smaller selection to work with. If wizards had more spells, there would be no point in playing a sorceror and no point in having a sorceror class. If you like the way sorcerors are and not wizards, you can always make ALL MUs sorcerors, with the limited selection of spells. If you want to give wizards as many spells as sorcerors, of course you can do that too, but I think it would be unwise since these classes have been balanced against each other through a lot of playtesting. The limitless selection of a wizard plus the increased firepower of a sorceror would just blow the other classes away. I don't imagine that's what you want. At 07:14 AM 8/19/00, SteelAngel wrote: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, David S. Leland wrote: > intelligence. That gives an extra spell of levels 1-4. > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 > OD&D 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 > 3E 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 Granted. But the same applies to 3e Sorcerers. Look at those tables: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 3e W 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3e S 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 OD&D 6 5 5 4 3 2 An exteremely charismatic sorcerer has a huge spell tree. Load him up with only powerful attacking spells, and a few weapon skills, and he's a powerhouse. Not to mention the 6 wishes per day. In raw magic strength, the sorcerer is a lot more powerful. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:39:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberryJAMM)" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evil Genius wrote: > > >> One small correction there, you can't actually spend so much XP that you loose a level. << > > I stand corrected, thanks. Still, point remains: 5,000 XPs may not sound >like a lot to those of us who are still used to seeing high-level characters >with XP totals of a million or multiple millions (I can see the reaction now >"5,00 XPs? That's nothin' when you're 20th level!), but 5,000 XPs is a lot >in 3E. You can still cast it to the point where you can't cast it any more, by reducing your XP total to any value less than 5000 XP above the minimum for your current level (210,000 if you're currently 20th level, so any XP total less than 215,000 means Wish is unavailable to you. And as for the comment that "5,000 XP is a lot in 3E" -- hoo boy, you're not kidding. Do you realize that at each level, it "only" takes your current level times 1000 to go up to the next level, so 5,000 XP is 1/4 of the XP it would takes to go from 20th to 21st level (assuming you have the rules for playing PC's at 21st level....) So, at any given point in time, the most number times a 20th level character could really every be able to cast consecutive Wish spells would be FOUR -- and that also assumes the Wizard in question has /just/ gotten enough XP to move into the range of 21st level but has chosen to cast multiple Wishes and expend their XP rather than use it to go up a level. Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 14:48:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberryJAMM)" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andr� Martins wrote: > I see one problem that I don't like, based on the fact that you can't lose a > level that way. If that is so, as a character advances, there would be dead > zones, when he can not cast those spells each time he advances and that > makes no sense to me. The reason is very simple, if you have just reached a > new level and has only 2,000 XP more than the limit for your new level, you > can't afford to spend the 5,000 XP to cast that spell. [snip] There is a "special" rule that says if you've just gained enough XP to move up a level you may choose to use it for spell casting purposes rather than actually "going up a level". So, in the situation you've given, if the caster had a reason to want access to that spell at that time, he could choose to stay at his current level and use the XP for the spell. However, once he chooses to go ahead an improve his capabilities based on his XP, he can no longer use them for spell casting, thus the restriction on dropping below a level. In a way, as a spellcaster you can either choose to use your "experience" as a means of gaining more skills, feats, etc. (basically, for improving your own capabilities) or you can choose to use it to power these advanced spells. But once it has been used, well, that's it, you can't use it for more than one purpose. That seems fair to me. Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:56:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3E Specialist Wizards (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 5:32:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, strawberry@JAMM.COM writes: > Can you quote the passage (with page number) in the 3E PH that makes this > clear? I know that in the /description/ area it says something about > "gaining access to more spells in your chosen area of specialization" but I > couldn't find anything in the Game Rules section that QUANTIFIED that > statement. See p. 54, last two sentences of first paragraph under "School Specialization": "The specialist can prepare one additional spell (of the school selected as a specialty) per spell level each day. The specialist gains a bonus of +2 to Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school...." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:02:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3E Specialist Wizards (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 2:32:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, strawberry@JAMM.COM writes: << Can you quote the passage (with page number) in the 3E PH that makes this clear? I know that in the /description/ area it says something about "gaining access to more spells in your chosen area of specialization" but I couldn't find anything in the Game Rules section that QUANTIFIED that statement. >> On page 54 in the section titled School Specialization (towards the bottom of the first paragraph) it describes that a specialist wizard may prepare one addtional spell of the school selected as a specialty per spell level each day. In addtion, it says specialists gain a +2 bonus to Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of their chosen school. Hope that helps, -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:36:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 10:14:50 SteelAngel wrote: >On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, David S. Leland wrote: > >> intelligence. That gives an extra spell of levels 1-4. > >> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >> OD&D 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 >> 3E 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 > >Granted. >But the same applies to 3e Sorcerers. Look at those tables: > > 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >3e W 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 >3e S 7 7 7 7 6 6 6 6 6 >OD&D 6 5 5 4 3 2 > >An exteremely charismatic sorcerer has a huge spell tree. Load him up with >only powerful attacking spells, and a few weapon skills, and he's a >powerhouse. Not to mention the 6 wishes per day. In raw magic strength, >the sorcerer is a lot more powerful. > Good point! It just becomes even more relevant when you consider that WOTC is still forcing the, IMHO, obsolete Memorization system instead of supporting a spell point system which allows more flexibility (by that I mean that it *should* have been obsolete!). I mean, the wizard's vast choice of many different spells is nice, but lets face it - how often do wizards memorize Detect Undead or Erase? Note that those are actually good spells under the right circumstances, except that those circumstances arise so rarely that few wizards will ever memorize them. By contrast, a wizard can always use more Magic Missiles and Sleep spells. If more flexibility had been allowed it wouldn't have been a big problem, but the system has basically remained the same, and with the Sorceror knowing all those combat spells too while being able to cast them more often, I really don't see why anybody would play a wizard anymore, except for nostalgia :( - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:43:14 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9?= Martins Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That might be fair, Jenni, but I still think it makes no sense. The way it would work is that, as you gain more and more xp, you can cast 1 wish, then 2, 3, and 4, then you advance a level and can cast none and up it goes again. I might include a limit like you can cast spend no more xps in a day (or probably a week) than the amount that is required to move one whole level for your character, but that might mean losing a level, if it takes you that far. And you can't lose the ability to cast that spell, so, first time you get it, you will be able to cast just one, 2 as you gain more experience and once it reaches 4 (assuming you require 20,000 xp to move up a level), when the number starts increasing slowly. Of course, that be IMC. Anyway, I really don't like the ability bouncing up and down, for no reason other than something as immaterial as game mechanics like xp. Having the ability to cast the spell 4 times, but at the expense of your level and some permanent spell casting abilities you will have to gain again also seems fair to me and more reasonable. Notice that I am not thinking about mechanics, but what would be reasonable to observe from the character's point of view. "Jenni A. M. Merrifield (strawberryJAMM)" wrote: > There is a "special" rule that says if you've just gained enough XP to move > up a level you may choose to use it for spell casting purposes rather than > actually "going up a level". So, in the situation you've given, if the > caster had a reason to want access to that spell at that time, he could > choose to stay at his current level and use the XP for the spell. However, > once he chooses to go ahead an improve his capabilities based on his XP, he > can no longer use them for spell casting, thus the restriction on dropping > below a level. > > In a way, as a spellcaster you can either choose to use your "experience" > as a means of gaining more skills, feats, etc. (basically, for improving your > own capabilities) or you can choose to use it to power these advanced > spells. But once it has been used, well, that's it, you can't use it for > more than one purpose. > > That seems fair to me. > > Jenni ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:01:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. >> If more flexibility had been allowed it wouldn't have been a big problem, but the system has basically remained the same, and with the Sorceror knowing all those combat spells too while being able to cast them more often, I really don't see why anybody would play a wizard anymore, except for nostalgia :( << Well, if you think the 3E Wizard sucks so bad (which, btw, I don't), and Sorcerers are that much better, then convert your character as a Sorcerer, not a Wizard. 3E Sorcerers are almost a "natural" for Alphatia, anyhow, what with the innate magic (which Alphatia is known for) and more chaotic bent (which Alphatia is also known for). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 21:29:43 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 4:24:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Well, if you think the 3E Wizard sucks so bad (which, btw, I don't), and Sorcerers are that much better, then convert your character as a Sorcerer, not a Wizard. >> Just wanted to point out that I don't think 3e Wizards suck either. Both the spellcasting classes have their advantages and disadvantages, and both are equally fun to play. Wizards have to carefully choose what spells they memorize, Sorcerers have to be careful what spells they choose to learn. One good thing about Wizards in 3e, if you read the rule for memorization, a Wizard can leave spell slots open (see the second paragraph on p.154 of the PH), and then prepare them later. The best part... it only takes 15 minutes. Not bad if you leave some spells open, find out you're going into a dungeon where many skeletons have been seen, and can take a few minutes preparing plent of Disrupt Undead cantrips. ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:44:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:42 PM 8/18/00 -0400, you wrote: > >1) >Why do 20th level wizards only get 4 spells per level per day? > >Sorcerers get 6 per level per day, and Clerics get ~6 including domain >spells. I think the rationale is that high level wizards will have a lot of bonus spells due to Intelligence, but now that I think of that, Sorcerors (Charisma) and Clerics (Wisdom) should, too, so... I dunno. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 18:58:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000819184456.007ddb80@pop.wans.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:44 8/19/00 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote: >I think the rationale is that high level wizards will have a lot of bonus >spells due to Intelligence, but now that I think of that, Sorcerors >(Charisma) and Clerics (Wisdom) should, too, so... > >I dunno. According to playtesters, high level wizards are what everyone ended up preferring, as the flexibility, which doesn't SEEM as big of a deal ahead of time actually became quite a big deal in play. Oh, and for the person earlier who was upset that 21+ level wizards didn't get new spells: WotC has provisions for adding new spells for higher level characters (some are mentioned at Eric Noah's site) that will be in the High Level book or (and I think this is a better option), one could multi-class into the Mystic or Loremaster prestige classes, both of which give more spell slots. The mystic was in last month's "Dragon" (still on sale most places) and probably next year's sorcerer/wizard supplement and the Loremaster will be in the DMG. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 03:27:40 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Wizard vs. Sorceror (was:[OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:01:45 Evil Genius wrote: >>> If more flexibility had been allowed it wouldn't have been a big problem, but the system has basically remained the same, and with the Sorceror knowing all those combat spells too while being able to cast them more often, I really don't see why anybody would play a wizard anymore, except for nostalgia :( << > >Well, if you think the 3E Wizard sucks so bad (which, btw, I don't), and Sorcerers are that much better, then convert your character as a Sorcerer, not a Wizard. 3E Sorcerers are almost a "natural" for Alphatia, anyhow, what with the innate magic (which Alphatia is known for) and more chaotic bent (which Alphatia is also known for). > You might be right, I suppose, but the thing is that I like wizards, not sorcerors! In fact, I really hate the very concept of sorcerors, not to fine a point of it. You may even be right in claiming that sorcerors are more appropriate for Alphatia, but I still dislike them... It also ruins the whole concept of magical lore stored in huge tomes. Such tomes were never established for Alphatia, however, so I guess you have a point about this not being a problem, but I always imagined the Alphatian schools or universities of magic having huge libraries with so many different books on magic that searching through would be futile without a brilliant librarian... Alphatia is an ancient empire and they tend to have a good recollection of history (even though they aren't frequently very true to the motives behind historic events if these don't reflect well on their empire). I always seemed to me that the reason for such extensive historical records, biased though they may be, was that the wizards of the empire had a deeply rooted trandition for vast tomes of lore... I don't know what the 3e group will do about this, but it's not a problem for me because I use 2e PO rules with my own extensive house rules, which works for us, so why should we change it? I do know what I'll do if we ever switch to 3e IMC: I'll ban sorcerors! Period! If somebody asks to play one IMC, I'll just tell them, "There aren't any - they don't exist. These aren't the droids you're looking for! Move along..." :) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:55:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: [OT] 3E Specialist Wizards (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > In a message dated 2000-08-19 5:32:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > strawberry@JAMM.COM writes: > > > Can you quote the passage (with page number) in the 3E PH that makes this > > clear? I know that in the /description/ area it says something about > > "gaining access to more spells in your chosen area of specialization" but I > > couldn't find anything in the Game Rules section that QUANTIFIED that > > statement. > > See p. 54, last two sentences of first paragraph under "School > Specialization": > > "The specialist can prepare one additional spell (of the school selected as a > specialty) per spell level each day. The specialist gains a bonus of +2 to > Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school...." Thanks David! (And Deldain too!) Don't know how I overlooked that specific game mechanic during the many times I tried to find something... actually, I think that after having read the section on School Specialization at the beginning (and overlooking that part), I only combed through the Game Rule Information section for Wizards (as well as the chapter on Magic). Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 20:27:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: [OT] 3E: Burning XP vs Leveling (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andr� Martins wrote: > Anyway, I really don't like the ability bouncing up and down, for no reason other > than something as immaterial as game mechanics like xp. Having the ability to cast > the spell 4 times, but at the expense of your level and some permanent spell > casting abilities you will have to gain again also seems fair to me and more > reasonable. Notice that I am not thinking about mechanics, but what would be > reasonable to observe from the character's point of view. But there's a very practical difference between "going up a level, and then dropping a level" and just "not going up a level" so you can use the XP. If you go up a level, you gain skill ranks, you might gain a feat, you get more HP, etc. Allowing a caster to then cast and "drop a level" means that you need to remember which skills went up and what feats were gained, because now they should no longer be applicable, plus your HP goes down, etc. (It certainly wouldn't be fair to let them /keep/ that stuff when they've deliberatly used up "personal power" that drops them below their current level) And then when they go up again... do they have to take the same skills/feats they chose before or can they change their minds? What if they roll worse HP than they did before? And what is there (besides common sense) to stop them from droping level, after level until they can't cast any XP costing spells any more (because their level is too low). Talk about a headache in the making for the DM and the Player. I totally understand why WotC set this restriction on XP burning spells. On the other, I do believe that I would allow a spellcaster with access to at least one XP burning spell to 'hold' their XP /instead/ of leveling through several encounters (i.e., it's not a split second choice: "You've just gained enough XP to go up a level, what are you going to do next?" "Psst. Your line is, 'Cast a Wish spell now.'") However, I think I would only allow this for as long as the spellcaster hasn't gained enough XP that they could go up TWO full levels. If a spellcaster actually waited until this point came, I would force them to level up AND then their XP total would be set at one XP less than the next level, regardless of how much XP they "should" have. This decision comes from the 3E rule that you can't go up more than one level at a time, and that if you get enough XP to do so, you follow the same =set up for XP. So, while the caster may have acheived all their XP over several adventures, by choosing hold their XP so long without using for some purpose (leveling or spellcasting) they've created a situation where, from a mechanics point of view, they are effectivly gaining enough XP to go up two full levels "at one time". Does that seem like a reasonable solution to you? Now there's no need for "dead space", because a spellcaster can simply wait until they have at least "XP for next Level + XP to cast spell" before declaring that they are going to level up, although they may have to wait a bit longer to get the benefits of a higher level, depending on how much XP the spell in question burns. On the other hand, if the spellcaster doesn't mind going without some XP burning spells for a short while, they can choose to level up right away instead, so they gain the benefits of a higher level, but loose access to some spells for a little while. A good example of how, as is common in 3E, the choices you make have an effect on not only what you CAN do but also what you CAN'T do. Jenni -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield <==> strawberryJAMM Designs strawberry@jamm.com <==> http://www.jamm.com/jamm/ <------------------------------------------------------------------> God created Light. Then Earth, Vegetables, Animals, Man and Woman. Then God started to think: "I should create things I *like*!" And God said: "Let There Be Strawberries!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 20:36:43 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: 3E Musings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Lord Deldain wrote: > As for wish itself, I've never been a big fan of putting such a powerful > spell in the hands of PCs, so in my games Wish and Limited Wish are next to > impossible to find and learn, much less cast. >From a DM point of view, this is the only problem with the Sorcerer class. Under the older rules, if there's a spell you want to restrict or even throw it out, all you have to do is never let the wizard find a copy. Unfortunately a Sorcerer doesn't need to find it in a spellbook to learn it, he just picks whatever he wants out of the PHB, so the GM has to explicitly disallow spells by fiat. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 20:36:43 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: 3E Musings In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Evil Genius wrote: > Wizard's & Spell Progression: 4 spells per level at 20th level, plus > bonuses for Int, it amazes me that some folks are complaining this > isn't enough. Sure, it's enough for 20th level, but not for 36th level. > Sorcerers & Wishes: Yah, right. I think you're forgetting > that each Wish you cast has an XP cost in 3E, and not a > small one: at 5,000 XP per Wish, cast too many and you'll > soon lose the ability Not a matter of forgetting. The PHB is big and I haven't had time yet to absorb it thoroughly. 5000 XP seems like a reasonable cost for a Wish. I think as a house rule I will also make Wish available to clerics as a 9th level spell. > Class Act: After getting the PH & this month's Dragon > (with the Duelist Prestige Class included), I hope the Duellist will be in the DMG. If not it won't exist in my campaign, since that issue of Dragon sold out before it hit the newsstand. > Levels & Experience: Given how different the Exp chart is > (one can make it to 20th level with about the amount of > experience points it used to take to make it to 20th), > people (like me) used to grant> I think one of the goals in 3e was to make advancement to high levels much faster than in older rules. Acoording to WOTC, high level characters are more fun to play and they wanted it to be easier to get there. If your campaign normally takes characters up to 5th or 6th level, 3e is designed to get those characters up to 10th or 15th level with the same amount of adventuring. I noticed that the XP awards for monsters have dramatically *increased* while the XP to advance has decreased. One orc (CR 1/2) is worth 150 XP to a first-level party, a 15x increase over BD&D! Considerign that it only takes 1/2 to 1/4 as much experience to reach level 2, that means advancement in 3e is 30-60 times faster. (Of course 3e does not award XP for treasure, which makes a big difference) Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 23:59:16 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 10:47:27 PM Central Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: > Not a matter of forgetting. The PHB is big and I haven't had time yet > to absorb it thoroughly. 5000 XP seems like a reasonable cost for a > Wish. I think as a house rule I will also make Wish available to > clerics as a 9th level spell. Why? Clerics have Miracle, their own version of Wish =) It also costs 5,000 xp to cast. They just don't have access to any weird spells called Limited Miracle or any such nonsense. Overall I think Mystaran campaigns are going to benefit in the end from 3E rules, since a lot of the "anything goes" flavor that I see as intrinsic with 3E feels right IMHO to the setting. With the new multiclassing rules it becomes much easier to write in a level or two as a fighter to explain some of the odd combat skills that used to be written into the RC without demanding huge experience levels to warrant them. Besides, I think the idea of just about anybody who's ANYBODY in Thyatis having some amount of fighting experience legally (without any weird fudging) is pretty cool. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:15:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 11:47:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: > I think as a house rule I will also make Wish available to > clerics as a 9th level spell. I think we will need to give the spell lists a good going over for the Mystara conversion. Since only 36th level Clerics have access to the Wish spell, maybe we should make that a 10th level Cleric spell accessible only to Clerics who have selected the appropriate high level options at level 21+? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:15:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 11:47:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: > From a DM point of view, this is the only problem with the Sorcerer > class. Under the older rules, if there's a spell you want to restrict > or even throw it out, all you have to do is never let the wizard find > a copy. Unfortunately a Sorcerer doesn't need to find it in a > spellbook to learn it, he just picks whatever he wants out of the > PHB, so the GM has to explicitly disallow spells by fiat. And the same is true for the two automatic spells that a Wizard picks up with each new level. Since in either case it is assumed that new spells can be selected freely from the PHB, it is the responsibility of the DM to let players know about any spells from that book that he intends to prohibit or restrict. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:15:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3E: Burning XP vs Leveling (was Re: 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-19 11:38:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, strawberry@JAMM.COM writes: > Does that seem like a reasonable solution to you? Now there's no need > for "dead space", because a spellcaster can simply wait until they have > at least "XP for next Level + XP to cast spell" before declaring that > they are going to level up, although they may have to wait a bit longer > to get the benefits of a higher level, depending on how much XP the > spell in question burns. On the other hand, if the spellcaster doesn't > mind going without some XP burning spells for a short while, they can > choose to level up right away instead, so they gain the benefits of a > higher level, but loose access to some spells for a little while. Also note that these decisions come into play well before a Wizard is capable of casting Wish spells, as manufacturing magic items also burns up XPs in a similar manner. Since Wizards begin play with a free Scribe Scroll feat, they face the decision about whether to level up or save XPs to burn for other purposes right from the beginning. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:25:05 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 12:12:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Dunlendor@AOL.COM writes: > In a message dated 8/19/00 10:47:27 PM Central Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM > writes: > > > Not a matter of forgetting. The PHB is big and I haven't had time yet > > to absorb it thoroughly. 5000 XP seems like a reasonable cost for a > > Wish. I think as a house rule I will also make Wish available to > > clerics as a 9th level spell. > > Why? Clerics have Miracle, their own version of Wish =) It also costs 5,000 > xp to cast. They just don't have access to any weird spells called Limited > Miracle or any such nonsense. Oops! Please disregard my earlier suggestion about Clerical Wish spells -- obviously they aren't needed. 3E is looking better all the time! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 00:57:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: 3E Musings >> Sure, it's enough for 20th level, but not for 36th level. << 1) Well, then you hated the AD&D conversion that translated 36th level D&D characters to 20th level characters. 3E 20th level Wizards are significantly better off in that respect compared to Wizards converted from OD&D to AD&D 2E. Complaining about what ammounts to an improvement seems odd. 2) Your point is. . .well, you might as well say that the number of spells available for a 1st level Wizard are "enough for 1st level, but not for 20th level." 3E rules don't have a maximum level-limit, btw (the charts in the PH only go so high basically for reasons of space, but there's no maximum level limit), so what one has at 36th level will clearly be different than what one has at 20th level. Unless you're saying that one should have everything a 36th level character has at 20th level. Which actually does seem to be the point for some people I suppose. Tautological arguments of this kind ("hey, X isn't equal to Y, so X isn't equal to Y! - 20th level Wizards aren't equal to 36th level Wizards, so did you notice that 20th level Wizards don't have as many spells as 36th level Wizards? What a gyp!") are odd. 3) We all have to remember that no one has to convert your campaign from OD&D to 3E. If after looking at 3E you decide you still prefer OD&D, then use that. No rules system is going to exactly replicate everything one might like from a different rules system. So far there are things in 3E that I like, and things I'm dubious about, speaking for myself. But it all fits together, and attempts to (re-)agrandize a particular character class based on preconceptions and hold overs from prior rules sets, or a desire for "increased flexability" (which is the same as a demand for more power, because flexability = power) as one person suggested starts to erode what appears to be a carefully callibrated balance between and among the various class options. Anyhow, no one's confiscating *my* copy of either the RC, AD&D 1E, or AD&D 2E, and I'll probably still make use of all those from time to time because of the aspects of those rules sets that I like, even if I do end up liking the 3E system. And, since we're a member of this particular list, its important to remember that as far as concerns that fans of *other* gameworlds might have ("I'll need to get 3E so I can understand newly published stuff for FR or Greyhawk, even if I don't use 3E"), thats not a concern here - an "added" benifit of Mystara no longer being supported by published materiel means no one has to convert just to keep current with "new" stuff for Mystara, and the old stuff is still useful (heck, more useful under the "old" rules sets because you don't have to bother with conversions). >> I think one of the goals in 3e was to make advancement to high levels much faster than in older rules. << Well, if that's the case, then one *really* doesn't need to complain too much, since if that is true then folks will hit 36th level a lot faster than in older rules. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:12:17 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 8:47:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bing@ICCOM.COM writes: << From a DM point of view, this is the only problem with the Sorcerer class. Under the older rules, if there's a spell you want to restrict or even throw it out, all you have to do is never let the wizard find a copy. Unfortunately a Sorcerer doesn't need to find it in a spellbook to learn it, he just picks whatever he wants out of the PHB, so the GM has to explicitly disallow spells by fiat. >> True enough, but what DM is going to let Sorcerer's just pick and choose spells as they please? Not a very wise one if you ask me. The easiest way to keep Sorcerers from taking spells is to simply make them study for them. Common spells such as Hold Person are easy enough to learn, but a spell as powerful and complex as Wish shouldn't be so easily learned by one who keeps all the details of his spells in his mind only. But that's just my opinion on the subject. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 01:24:17 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/19/00 10:07:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Well, if that's the case, then one *really* doesn't need to complain too much, since if that is true then folks will hit 36th level a lot faster than in older rules. >> Not unless a DM is giving away XP like crazy. From what I've seen of the Challenge Rating table, gaining XP isn't any easier since all the values have been adjusted to take into account the less XP required level advancement. I can't remember where I read it, maybe on Eric Noah's page, but the base idea is that characters should advance a level after 14 or so encounters of a CR no greater than their average level. Now I'm not sure how many encounters you guys may have per session, but I know that I rarely have more than 2 or 3. Going on that, and factoring in that many DMs give XP bonuses for good roleplaying and or giving CR experience for things besides encounters, level advancement really shouldn't be that much faster. Maybe it's just a preference, but I think 10th level or higher characters should be rare, and 20th level characters should literally be 1 in a million. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:47:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Wizard vs. Sorceror (was:[OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I don't know what the 3e group will do about this, but it's not a problem for me because I use 2e PO rules with my own extensive house rules, which works for us, so why should we change it? I do know what I'll do if we ever switch to 3e IMC: I'll ban sorcerors! Period! If somebody asks to play one IMC, I'll just tell them, "There aren't any - they don't exist. These aren't the droids you're looking for! Move along..." :) I think I'm in the same boat as you on this one - I dont see any advantage in buying 3E at all - I think I dislike just about everything I have heard of it, and while I have picked over a friends copy and must say that it is beautifully presented, frankly i dont care whether its printed in gold leaf. Plus I got a whole load of Shadowrun books that I need - and those books will actually be offering something new and unique, rather than a list of rules tweaks that I dont want anyway... I sympathise more with the 1st ed Luddites now :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 10:51:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > According to playtesters, high level wizards are what everyone ended up > preferring, as the flexibility, which doesn't SEEM as big of a deal ahead > of time actually became quite a big deal in play. Seems likely the Sorceror will be a class more used by DMs then PCs. A wizard is needed to provide the flexibility that a party MU needs, but the sorceror just kicks ass in combat. Hence, if the DM wants a pet hard wiz, he will be a sorceror. Although I think that it would be very easy to make up a rock hard sorceror - you just need to use your noodle when learning spells. As I often end up playing wizards in 2e with less than amazing Intelligence (14 for example) I know thats possible. I saw a bard with Int 11 who had a damn good spellbook - small, but it got the job done. A lot of spells are very flexible indeed. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:20:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Maybe it's just a preference, but I think 10th level or higher characters > should be rare, and 20th level characters should literally be 1 in a million. Having lots of high level people wandering around will certainly have a massive effect on the world. Even one party of level 15+ in 2e, in a Mystara converted to 2e, has a huge effect on the game world. This idea that "its fun to play high level characters" surprises me actually. Given at what sort of level people seem to like to play (what I would call extremely low level) and the sort of adventures that most people do, I think most people dislike high level play (Not me, I much prefer it, but from looking at webrpg and so on, low level (1st level more often than not) seems to be the order of the day). One reason I like the Savage Coast is that your average 1st level soldier armed with a musket is still a force to be reckoned with. 10 musketeers with red steel bullets is not something the average high level guy can just ignore (as opposed to 10 orc longbowmen). The reason - Mystara is a world about nation states, and high level PCs have a tendency to blow nation states away. I mean, a party of 15th level characters wandering around Karameikos - thats a major, Major upset to the balance of power there. All well and good when the PCs have earned that after three years of play, or whatever, but I don't like the idea of this being par for the course. As usual, its just amping (again). Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:25:26 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Rate of XP advancement (was 3E Musings) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It is my understanding that a design goal for 3E was to make the rate of advancement steadier rather than merely faster. That rule of "14 encounters per level" is meant to apply at all levels. It is the nature of those encounters that makes high level parties less numerous: to reach level n+1, an nth level party must survive 14 fairly challenging encounters. What percentage of such parties do? You can figure that many NPCs lack the ambition to seek out such encounters and so will stay at the same level for many years. Among those who try, figure that only 30-50% survive -- after all, it is quite likely that among those 14 encounters the player characters will wipe out 1-2 parties of nth level monster adventurers. Follow that process for enough levels and high level characters will be rare indeed -- and in 3E this process will be steadier than it ever was under earlier rule sets, where advancement became noticeably easier when the XP scale went from doubling to steady increments per level. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 08:29:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 1:21:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > True enough, but what DM is going to let Sorcerer's just pick and choose > spells as they please? Not a very wise one if you ask me. The easiest way to > keep Sorcerers from taking spells is to simply make them study for them. > Common spells such as Hold Person are easy enough to learn, but a spell as > powerful and complex as Wish shouldn't be so easily learned by one who keeps > all the details of his spells in his mind only. But that's just my opinion > on the subject. Another possibility might be to come up with prerequisites for various spells. Do you want to learn Wish? Then you should already know Limited Wish. Do you want to learn Charm Monster? Then you should already know Charm Person. Sorcerers who are learning their spells according to a character conception should have little problem with this approach, and players who want their sorcerers to skip prerequisites would need to give the DM convincing in-game reasons as to why they should be allowed to do so. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 09:36:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/00 6:26:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << This idea that "its fun to play high level characters" surprises me actually. Given at what sort of level people seem to like to play (what I would call extremely low level) and the sort of adventures that most people do, I think most people dislike high level play >> It surprises me too. WotC has been trumpeting 3E as a "return to the dungeon," but creating interesting "holes in the ground" for high-level parties can be a miserable exercise in DMing. And probably not much fun for the high-level player either. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:15:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: 3E Musings >> Not unless a DM is giving away XP like crazy. From what I've seen of the Challenge Rating table, gaining XP isn't any easier since all the values have been adjusted to take into account the less XP required level advancement. << Remember what I said - I was responding to someone's point, and in my statement I said (twice) "IF thats the case". Depending on what you consider an "encounter", in campaigns I've been in we usually have more than 2-3 per session. But then our sessions were usually pretty long (I'm not in an active, non-PBeM campaign at the moment.) From what I gather, though, the aim is to have people "level up" after about 3 adventures (14 encounters = aproximately 3 sessions/adventures), which is in line with what I'd call the "industry standard", and was about the same in OD&D terms too. Some campaigns will go faster, some slower, all in line with the style of play of individual campaigns. What's not to love? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:17:31 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/00 8:19:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << Depending on what you consider an "encounter", in campaigns I've been in we usually have more than 2-3 per session. But then our sessions were usually pretty long>> Probably should have pointed out that I basically define an encounter as a major combat scenario. Such as a battle with the main villian(s), taking on a pack of orcs, etc. I'm not counting any minor encounters, such as picking off a goblin or two, beating up a prison guard, and so on, since I rarely give out XP for such situations. Out situations run usually 4 to 5 hours, which I think is a long but I could be mistake, and in that time I'd say we have no more than 3 major encounters, and probably 4 or more minor ones. As a DM I try my best to balance out roll-playing and role-playing in our games, because we have an equal mix of people who enjoy combat and people who like 'mind games' such as figuring out puzzles, bluffing their way out of trouble, and even seducing beautiful NPCs. ;) Hence why we might seem to have a low number of encouters, but that's because I think too much combat, the same as too many mind games, bog down a game and leave players bored and/or annoyed. But getting back to the point, from what I've seen thus far, characters may advancea little bit faster but the DM can always put the breaks on advancement anytime he wants by giving out less XP which is pretty much already handled in the CR system. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:20:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Campaign Session Musings Mystara wrote: >> Probably should have pointed out that I basically define an encounter as a major combat scenario. Such as a battle with the main villian(s), taking on a pack of orcs, etc. I'm not counting any minor encounters, such as picking off a goblin or two, beating up a prison guard << Yah, that sounds right. >> and so on, since I rarely give out XP for such situations. Out situations run usually 4 to 5 hours, which I think is a long but I could be mistake, << Well, thats probably about what most people run. Here's how our campaigns used to typically go, back in the day when I was still actively in one (I've lived in the boonies so long now, *mutter*) - we'd meet most Saturdays, mid morning. Some times, but not often, we'd start Friday though. There were usually six of us, but sometimes (rarely, actually) more, but the core group of six (except on occassions when not everyone could be there, which meant missing a lot) We'd game for a few hours, then typically do something outdoors (street football, a run to the store, whatever), then back in for more gaming in the mid or late afternoon, play more then order pizza (doesn't everyone?), eat & watch crap on TV and jaw about how things went and the "coolest"/most memorable stuff. Then more gaming, usually until about 2 AM (though anything done after midnight. . .well, the best stuff always happened before midnight, after that things got slaphappy.) Only once did we play all the night through, a really bad idea. People who lived near wherever it was we were playing would go home (or, later when we had cars, everyone would drive home. We didn't ever drink "adult beverages" while playing, so that wasn't a worry). Sometimes we'd get together again Sunday afternoon, but usually not, and usually only for a short session. It depended on whether we were in the middle of something that had us pumped and we wanted to finish or whether we had gotten to a good "stopping point" the previous day. These marathon sessions had their drawbacks, but were great fun. The DM didn't usually get exausted, because we tended to rotate anyhow among us. What we did that *WASN'T* a good idea in retrospect and that I'd recomend *NOT* doing is that when we rotated, the DM's PC would then be run as an NPC with the group. Some of us did well with that, not succumbing to the temptation agrandize their character while DMing, having the character take a more "back seat" role, others were pretty bad (oddly, unfortunately, the guy who was probably our best DM, who's adventures I still recall most memorably, was IMO the worst in this regard - his characters almost always ended up after several sessions being a couple levels higher than everyone else and having better magic items, or in Traveller the biggest and best ships and guns and whatnot), and most of us succumbed to this temptation to one degree or another (I was *not* one of the ones who best resisted temptation, btw.) Anyhow, probably would have been a good idea if when switching among DMs that person's character "disapeared" while he was DMing. Our characters were almost always! ! "on the road", travelling itinerants rather than returning to any one locale regularly in most campaigns, so comming up with plot devices to have characters leave the group at appropriate times and then return would have been somewhat difficult, but we didn't even try it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:52:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . In-Reply-To: <4a.9d3a98e.26d00ecb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "The real question is whether Mystara should have human or demi-human sorcerers -- there has already been a fair amount of inconclusive debate on that issue." When I started playing in Mystara all Elves where essentially multi-classed fighter/MU's, even the ones in the creatures section, to me this meant that all elves had a natural spell casting ability. It was an innate ability of those with Elven blood. This innate spellcasting ability seems to be more "Sorcerer" than "Wizard," so for my new Mystara campaign, (starting soon) I have decided to make Sorcerer the preferred class of Elves, and anyone playing a full-blooded Elf of level 3 or higher would lose 20% of their experience if they had no levels of sorcery. Plus any character who had the Sorcerer class would have to allow for a drop of Elven blood. Dylan R. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:05:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: What's up with the MMB? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone out there have the quill on what's up with cipher.wizards.com? I cant get any of it especially the Mystara message board. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:06:51 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . In-Reply-To: <4a.9d3a98e.26d00ecb@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > sorcerers -- there has already been a fair amount of inconclusive debate > on that issue. I've always been one to consider that Pure Alphatians are natural sorcerers. Even on Old Alphatia (The home plane) commoners get 1st level spell ability, no matter what class. I'd make Alfheim Elves sorcerers too. But that's just IMC. I re-read the rules about sorcerers vs. wizards. Sorcerers don't get a charisma bonus to spells or spells learned. That makes them much better. I rest my complaint :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:20:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystara Cosmology In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Lord Deldain wrote: > So is the a model to go buy? Perhaps something presented in WotI (which I > really, really need to get soon) that explains it? Any info would be helpful. I wrote this up a while back, here is is again :) Lets look at what the D&D multiverse is, shall we? (I'm disregarding the, IMHO, apocryphal cosmology of PC1) Most of my info comes from discussions on the list, the Gold Box, WotI, and my own thoughts (as an astrophysicist). Existence: There exists a Being(s) known as the Old Ones. The Old Ones created the Multiverse. The Multiverse has Five Forces - Defined as Matter, Energy, Time, Thought and Entropy. These forces control all aspects of the Multiverse. (This is kind of like the four fundamental forces of the RW universe - Gravity, E/M, Weak, Strong) The Guardians of the Five Forces are the Immortal Hierarchs. Each Full Hierarch is charged with maintaining the balance of the Five, so that none gain ascendancy, and the Multiverse remains in balance. The Multiverse is a collection of realities, each reality is equally likely, but switching between realities requires tremendous magics or technologies. (in WotI, Realities are called "Dimensions", but I'll reserve that term for something else). Realities are defined as vector spaces in 6 or more spatial dimensions. The first three dimensions are known as "normal" dimensions, while dimensions 3-4-5 are the "nightmare" dimensions. Mortal beings can only exist in four of these dimensions, whereas Immortals exist in 5. However, a being can only perceive one less dimension than that being exists in. (i.e. mortals perceive 3, and Immortals perceive 4.) Mortals are of two major types - those that perceive Dimensions 1-2-3 and those that perceive 5-4-3. (note, no Mortal can perceive dimensions greater than the 5th). The former are known as "Normals" and the latter are "Nightmare creatures". It is best to consider each type of creature to be mutually exclusive, Normals and Nightmares fear the existence of the other, and their limited perception of the other's existence is frightening to them. Immortals exist in dimensions 1-5. Normals perceive 1-4, while Nightmares perceive 5-2. To an Immortal, the Nightmare/Normal distinction becomes unimportant, as Immortals can perceive each other fully. Old ones perceive every dimension, but exist in their true form in only the 6th and higher dimensions. There are no known creatures that perceive only the 2nd-3rd-4th dimensions. There are groups of being known as the "Outer Beings" that do not exist in "Absolute" dimensionality. These beings skip a dimension, and exist in the others. For example, and Outer being may exist in Dimensions 1-3-4-5. Outer Beings may exist in the 6th or higher dimensions, but this is unknown. Outer beings may be the manifestation of errant Old Ones, but this has not been proven - talk to Geoff! Planar Structure: There exists an infinite number of planes in each reality, the only planes that exist in all the realities are the "Fundamental Planes". These are defined as: The Prime Plane. The 4 Elemental Planes The Ethereal Plane The Astral Plane. The Prime plane is akin to the Universe in the real world. The Four Elements and Five Forces are in perfect balance. Each elemental plane is ruled by a single Element. Every Force, barring Entropy, is usually ascribed to these planes - Matter and Earth, Energy and Fire, Thought and Air, Time and Water. However (and this is this author's opinion) the Five Forces are not part of these planes, and are not conjoined with them. The Forces are independent of planar orientation. The ethereal plane is a murky "soup" in which the Prime Plane and the Elemental Planes float in. (If it can be defined that way!! :) The Ethereal is like the "Shadow" of it's enclosed planes. The Astral Plane is the boundary of the Fundamental Planes. Beyond the Astral the planar orientation is variable among the realities. This leads to the supposition that the Old Ones created the Fundamental Planes only, and the Outer planes were created by the Immortal generations of each reality. Immortals: Immortals are a higher step on the evolutionary ladder than mortals. Immortals exist as beings of pure power, aligned with one of the Five Forces. Immortals are a natural progression from mortality, and the best and brightest mortals are allowed into their ranks upon proving their worth. There are billions of Immortals, a high proportion of which come from the Fundamental Planes in each reality, the rest come from the innumerable outer planes of each reality. Immortals are charged with maintaining the balance of the Five Forces in their reality, and thus, each reality has it's own Full Hierarchs, but there are no more than 5 in each reality. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:21:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Campaign Session Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/00 10:24:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: << What we did that *WASN'T* a good idea in retrospect and that I'd recomend *NOT* doing is that when we rotated, the DM's PC would then be run as an NPC with the group. >> Though we never tried rotating during the same session, back when we gamed more often everyone tried their hand at DMing at least once and their characters were left to guard the treasure' back at our homebase. The actual campaign started out decent, but like any round-robin story things started to get inconsistent and strange. After each session, we'd talk about what we liked, what we hated, and what was just plain dumb. All in all the campaign lasted about three months, and when it was all over we decided to start sticking with just one DM. And because everyone liked how I handled things the best, I got nominated for the job. Since then I've been the DM most of the time. Others have ran things on occassion, but everyone seems to always want to go back to one of my campaigns afterwards. Frankly it flatters me, because I never thought of myself as great DM. However recently I've seen why one of the main reasonss everyone wants me to run, is because I'm the only one willing to put in the effort to DM. I call everyone and find out when they can game, I set up the campaign, meet up with players to work out what their characters were doing in the down-time between sessions, and so on. Of course it's not like I've had to do much because our group has dwindled down to three players. Which has worked quite well, but when someone can't show up it tends to throw the whole campaign out of whack. I think that's one of the main reasons we converted to 3e, besides the vastly improved system of course, because we want to find new, fresh players instead of trying to drudge up some of the lost souls we just to game with. Well that all for now, share time's over. Jus thought I'd ramble on abit about my life for no apparent reason. Let's see, if only I could find a way to get turn this around and get it back on topic.... eh, maybe later ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:25:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/00 11:18:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << I re-read the rules about sorcerers vs. wizards. Sorcerers don't get a charisma bonus to spells or spells learned. That makes them much better. I rest my complaint :) >> They get bonus spells for high Charisma but don't get any bonus to the number of spells known, period. Not sure what you mean by 'bonus to spells' but I assume spells learned is how many spells they know. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:28:57 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: 3E Musings In-Reply-To: <003f01c00a10$2476e4e0$46f0b6c8@virtua.com.br> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, [iso-8859-1] Andr=E9 Martins wrote: > Personally, I think a xp cost would work fine, as long as we drop the > limitation that one can not lose a level by the expenditure. Therefore, = you > can always cast it as you advance, but sometimes the casting will make yo= u a > little weaker, what sounds good to me. A tough decision, but no dead area= s > for that spell. I'd be for that. you can drop the level, but you don't lose anything you gained from the previous level, i.e you can't just suddenly forget a new skill. You are just treated as a lower level for purposes of saves,spells/day, etc.=20 However, when you get the new level back, you don't get the bonuses again.= =20 Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 14:30:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [OT] 3E Specialist Wizards (was Re: 3E Musings) In-Reply-To: <9f.9a0c062.26d05caa@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > "The specialist can prepare one additional spell (of the school selected as a > specialty) per spell level each day. The specialist gains a bonus of +2 to > Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school...." That's really buried in there. I had a tough time finding it too! Don't feel bad Jenni! Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:41:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Spell charts + Mystaran Sorcery In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:06 AM 8/20/00, SteelAngel wrote: I re-read the rules about sorcerers vs. wizards. Sorcerers don't get a charisma bonus to spells or spells learned. That makes them much better. I rest my complaint :) Actually, they do get the bonus to cast spells, but no bonus to spells known: "The number of spells a sorceror knows is not affected by his Charisma bonus, if any...The number of spells he can cast per day is improved by his bonus spells, if any." (p.50) I'm definitely going to have elves be sorceror/fighters by default. One of the rare exceptions to my house rule that in my Mystara, there is no multiclassing. I was thinking about some of the clans of Alfheim (e.g. Red Arrow vs. Long Runner, I think) and also about some Hollow World elves who don't use magic, and thought that maybe some could be just fighters or just sorcerors, and that they should feel free to not keep the levels equal. To that end, I'm thinking of making whatever balancing change to then gives elves a racial bonus of a few cantrips (like 3e says for gnomes, which doesn't work for Mystara IMO) so that even the pure fighters will have a couple of weak spells, since I'm used to the idea that ALL elves have some magic. Anyway, clans like Red Arrow that are militaristic would have a high proportion of single-class fighters or at least low levels of sorceror in their mulit-classers. The reverse for magic-loving clans like Long Runner. I'm also thinking of restricting not only the spells elves can learn in Alfheim, but the spells they can learn ANYWHERE in their sorceror class to ones on the Alfheim list (with some modifications, probably). To help explain Glantrian elves, etc., I'm thinking that elves CAN learn wizardry, it's just that most don't see the point of having to do all that book work and don't care to get away from the nature-based magic, which is in their blood. But, I'd say elves can choose that route, and perhaps even do both (multiclass wiz/sor, or even wiz/sor/ftr). I wanted to have human sorcerors virtually nonexistent, but the mention here of Alphatians is making me reconsider for them. After all, they are aliens, right? And they are quite chaotic (but then Glantri is labelled chaotic, too, both probably just because they're MU countries). I'll have to think about that. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:34:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: What's up with the MMB? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I haven't known of it working for almost a year now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul George Dooley To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 2:05 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] What's up with the MMB? > Anyone out there have the quill on what's up with cipher.wizards.com? I > cant get any of it especially the Mystara message board. > > Hamlet I, v, 166. > Words to live by? > > Paul > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:47:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Lord Deldain wrote: > They get bonus spells for high Charisma but don't get any bonus to the number > of spells known, period. Not sure what you mean by 'bonus to spells' but I > assume spells learned is how many spells they know. I'll reread that, but I don't think that they get bonus spells for high charisma. I'm pretty sure it says that. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:51:37 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob wrote: > This idea that "its fun to play high level characters" surprises me > actually. Given at what sort of level people seem to like to play = (what I > would call extremely low level) and the sort of adventures that most = people > do, I think most people dislike high level play (Not me, I much prefer = it, > but from looking at webrpg and so on, low level (1st level more often = than > not) seems to be the order of the day). I've always loved playing (and DMing) high-level OD&D adventures, but = that's probably because I think that the quality of D&D Companion and = Master adventures is far superior to the majority of the Basic and = Expert adventures. Of course once we got through those, and you had to = design the adventures from scratch, I found it easier to balance the = play at lower levels... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: What's up with the MMB? In-Reply-To: Jeff Daly's message of "Sun, 20 Aug 2000 15:34:10 -0400" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jeff Daly writes: > I haven't known of it working for almost a year now. It's been working in the past month or so, but it's been very up and down. I've stopped reading it because it's such junk. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 82 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes, 7 seconds till we run away. A computer scientist is someone who fixes things that aren't broken. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 16:06:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/20/00 1:02:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << I'll reread that, but I don't think that they get bonus spells for high charisma. I'm pretty sure it says tha >> Look on page 10, right above the average charisma scores table. I think it mentions it in the class description too, but I'm not sure where. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <003901c00a8c$3f51d280$9a01a8c0@rob> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:51 8/20/00 +0100, Rob wrote: >Seems likely the Sorceror will be a class more used by DMs then PCs. A >wizard is needed to provide the flexibility that a party MU needs, but the >sorceror just kicks ass in combat. Hence, if the DM wants a pet hard wiz, >he will be a sorceror. IMC, it won't be that simple. It will mean different things to be a sorcerer than a wizard in Glantri, for instance, and they'll be almost unknown in 1013 amongst humans elsewhere. I'll likely have it be the default magic-user class for elves, though. (Glantrian elves, of course, will likely have sorcerery and wizardry at their disposal, after studying at the GSoM.) >Although I think that it would be very easy to make up a rock hard >sorceror - you just need to use your noodle when learning spells. As I >often end up playing wizards in 2e with less than amazing Intelligence (14 >for example) I know thats possible. I saw a bard with Int 11 who had a damn >good spellbook - small, but it got the job done. A lot of spells are very >flexible indeed. I need to look more at how sorcerers acquire spells. While I don't want to shaft players who play them, having them be nothing but, say, fireball dispensers seems awfully dull to me. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 13:23:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E Musings In-Reply-To: <002901c00a90$39abc260$9a01a8c0@rob> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:20 8/20/00 +0100, Rob wrote: >This idea that "its fun to play high level characters" surprises me >actually. Given at what sort of level people seem to like to play (what I >would call extremely low level) and the sort of adventures that most people >do, I think most people dislike high level play (Not me, I much prefer it, >but from looking at webrpg and so on, low level (1st level more often than >not) seems to be the order of the day). I would guess that phenomenon is partly that people want to start campaigns at that level and develop them upwards. My personal preference, for playing and DMing, is from 7-10 or so, but I don't want to wave a magic wand and jump the PCs to that level, especially when I know they'll get more into the setting if we start them from the beginning. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:52:21 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Spell charts + Mystaran Sorcery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 20 Aug 2000 11:41:29 David S. Leland wrote: (snip) > >I wanted to have human sorcerors virtually nonexistent, but the >mention here of Alphatians is making me reconsider for them. After >all, they are aliens, right? And they are quite chaotic (but then >Glantri is labelled chaotic, too, both probably just because they're >MU countries). I'll have to think about that. > In that case you should take into consideration that Glantri and Alphatia is based on wizards/sorcerors from the same world - Old Alphatia. The Flaems who founded the nation that Glantri is today were descendants of the Followers of Flame from Old Alphatia, so I'd speculate that they shouldn't be too dissimilar from the Alphatians... - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:25:00 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 4:02:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > I'll reread that, but I don't think that they get bonus spells for high > charisma. I'm pretty sure it says that. See pp. 7-8 and 50. The number of spells known is not affected by charisma, but the number of spells that a sorcerer can cast per day is. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:55:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Spell charts + Mystaran Sorcery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Going by Eric Noah's suggested conversion rules, we should probably keep sorcerers to a minimum. Both elves and human magic-users were assumed in previous rules to learn and cast spells as wizards and maintain spellbooks, so for the sake of continuity it would be best for any widely used conversion to do likewise. I can already think of a few exceptions of unusual character types who should be converted to sorcerers, but the most famous human and demi-human NPCs of Mystaran are not among them. However, as to the general merits of making elves single-classed sorcerers -- if you insist on converting standard adventuring elves to any single class, I would think that the most appropriate class to use would be the Bard. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:25:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 2:18:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RVAExile@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > I have decided to make Sorcerer the preferred class of Elves, and anyone > playing a full-blooded Elf of level 3 or higher would lose 20% of their > experience if they had no levels of sorcery. That is not quite how preferred classes work -- or is that a house rule in addition to having Sorcerer as their preferred class? Also, as I mentioned in another post, Bard is probably a better candidate for primary Elf class. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:25:03 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara Cosmology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A couple of notes: In a message dated 2000-08-20 2:40:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > There are groups of being known as the "Outer Beings" > that do not exist in "Absolute" dimensionality. These beings skip a > dimension, and exist in the others. For example, and Outer being may exist > in Dimensions 1-3-4-5. Outer Beings may exist in the 6th or higher > dimensions, but this is unknown. Outer beings may be the manifestation of > errant Old Ones, but this has not been proven - talk to Geoff! While the Outer Beings are a nifty idea, I should point out that they are purely a fan-based creation at this point. > Immortals: > > Immortals are a higher step on the evolutionary ladder than mortals. I would delete this statement for two reasons: 1) Immortals did not "evolve" from mortals but worked their way up from mortal to Immortal in various ways and/or were granted that status through an infusion of power from another Immortal or some other source. 2) Even in a fantasy world evolution has no direction, purpose, or goal, so the idea of an "evolutionary ladder" is nonsense. In fact, I could make a case for humans being the least evolved living things on the planet (because longer childhood equates to fewer generations and thus fewer chances to evolve). > There are billions of Immortals, a high proportion of which come > from the Fundamental Planes in each reality, the rest come from > the innumerable outer planes of each reality. For that statement to be true you sould have to assume the existence of thousands of alternate realities -- something that I do not recall you stating implicitly. > Immortals are charged > with maintaining the balance of the Five Forces in their reality, and > thus, each reality has it's own Full Hierarchs, but there are no more than > 5 in each reality. The information on that last point is contradictory if you take WotI into account. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 18:45:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Mystaran Sorcery In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Good point, Stalker, about the Glantrians and Alphatians having common roots. I definitely want to make them all wizards then, with their arcane tomes and grueling hours at the lab bench and library, etc. The exception I'm considering is sorcerous prestige classes for the seven secret crafts. I eagerly await the DMG to help decide how to handle all this. Regarding elves, David (Knott), my aim is to keep a lot of what I see as the flavor of OD&D by restricting class/race combinations. Since there were never any bards (in the class sense) in my Mystara before, I don't really want to introduce them. I feel that fighter elves or sorceror elves are not too much of a stretch if the default is usually fighter/sorceror, but I'm not going to have elven clerics, rogues, etc. I considered making a new Forestor class that combines the magic and fighting in lieu of multiclassing, but then upon further thought about the differences in Alfheim clans, decided it might be easier to have elves with varying levels of fighter vs. sorceror to them, with most keeping roughly even levels unless they're from particularly warlike or magic-loving clans. The question then becomes whether Thyatian human Forestors are somehow able to tap into sorcery, or whether they learn wizardry that tries to emulate elven sorcery as closely as possible. Not easy to sort out. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:06:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Mystaran reference in 3E MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" It's not a Mystara reference per se, but I think it can hardly be a coincidence that the only sorcerous goblinoid race given is ... kobold. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:13:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaran Sorcery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 9:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > Since there were never any bards (in the class sense) in my Mystara before, > I don't really want to introduce them. I would agree if you are referring to humans -- but I think if you compare the Elf spell list in Gaz 5 with the Bard spell list in the 3E PHB you will see some amazing similarities. On the other hand, tweaking the Bard class into a Forester class would probably be a better approach all around. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 19:54:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Spell charts + Mystaran Sorcery In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:55 PM 8/20/00 EDT, you wrote: > >However, as to the general merits of making elves single-classed >sorcerers -- if you insist on converting standard adventuring elves to >any single class, I would think that the most appropriate class to >use would be the Bard. I was thinking Ranger myself, with a slightly expanded spell list... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 23:20:25 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I have decided to make Sorcerer the preferred class of Elves, and anyone > playing a full-blooded Elf of level 3 or higher would lose 20% of their > experience if they had no levels of sorcery. That is not quite how preferred classes work -- or is that a house rule in addition to having Sorcerer as their preferred class? Also, as I mentioned in another post, Bard is probably a better candidate for primary Elf class. It is a house rule to represent the innate ability of ALL elves to cast arcane magic. I have reasons to not use the Bard class. One is that I am not requiring it to be the only class of Mystaran Elves. Another is that I use bards extensively in my campaign and they are not a uncommon character class (after the big 4 they are probably #1), so I would rather not link Bard to a race like that. And finally, the munchkin in my group is so anti-elf it keeps him away from the sorcerer class, as anyone in my game would have to have some Elven blood to be a sorcerer. On another note, Glantri is very much dominated by Wizards IMHO, and anyone who wished to become a Prince would have to demonstrate Knowledge Of and not just Ability With magic thus forcing Elven Princes to be Mulitclassed S/W's. Dylan R ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 20:49:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it just me, or does the D&D3e PHB seem too tailored to Greyhawk. I noticed that the descriptions of elves and other races, and classes themselves do not seem Mystara-like at all. If one reads the Gazetteers, such as GAZ5 Alfheim, the elves there are quite different than in the description from PHB3e. The Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) and Monk (PHB 1e) seemed revived because these were used frequently in Greyhawk world, with Scarlet Brotherhood and the northeastern barbarians. Perhaps, we can create our own substitute write-ups for the Greyhawk tailored portions of PHB. We can also add some Mystaran races and classes. Perhaps even revive oD&D classes like the Avenger from the Companion Ruleset. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:09:39 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 08:49 PM 8/20/00, Darth Darknerd wrote: Is it just me, or does the D&D3e PHB seem too tailored to Greyhawk. Greyhawk is the official core setting for D&D 3E, as reflected in all the core books. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:10:46 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ryan Seratt Subject: Re: Duelist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't find any information on the Duelist Prestige class. Can somebody point me in the right direction? Ryan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:25:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-20 11:53:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: > Is it just me, or does the D&D3e PHB seem too tailored to Greyhawk. It is, but I am not particularly bothered by it. > I noticed that the descriptions of elves and other races, and classes > themselves do not seem Mystara-like at all. If one reads the Gazetteers, > such as GAZ5 Alfheim, the elves there are quite different than in the > description from PHB3e. I would definitely agree with you on that point. > The Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) and Monk (PHB 1e) seemed revived because > these were used frequently in Greyhawk world, with Scarlet Brotherhood and > the northeastern barbarians. True, but the Monk class seems to correspond to the Mystaran Mystic, and the Barbarian will work well as the default class for the goblinoids of the Broken Lands. > Perhaps, we can create our own substitute write-ups for the Greyhawk > tailored portions of PHB. We can also add some Mystaran races and classes. > Perhaps even revive oD&D classes like the Avenger from the Companion Ruleset. We plan to do all of that in the Mystara3E project. If you would like to join in the effort (and we could certainly use the help!), send an e-mail to mystara3E-subscribe@egroups.com and you can be part of the action. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:27:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:49 8/20/00 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >Is it just me, or does the D&D3e PHB seem too tailored to Greyhawk. "Tailored?" They always said the default world was Greyhawk -- i.e., no Harper prestige classes or whatever in the core books. >I noticed that the descriptions of elves and other races, and classes themselves do not seem Mystara-like at all. They seem like AD&D, though, although the halflings clearly are a compromise between previous versions and the kender. >The Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) and Monk (PHB 1e) seemed revived because these were used frequently in Greyhawk world, with Scarlet Brotherhood and the northeastern barbarians. Pffft. The northern races in Oerth have been fighters for most of the past 20+ years. I think the reason the classes are back is: People wanted them. Not every old class is back, either: No Cavalier or Thief-Acrobats. >Perhaps, we can create our own substitute write-ups for the Greyhawk tailored portions of PHB. We can also add some Mystaran races and classes. Perhaps even revive oD&D classes like the Avenger from the Companion Ruleset. Join the Mystara3E group. They're working on just that right now. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:29:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Duelist? In-Reply-To: <11.831d786.26d205c6@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:10 8/21/00 EDT, Ryan Seratt wrote: >I can't find any information on the Duelist Prestige class. Can somebody >point me in the right direction? The new "Dragon" -- which is just now reaching subscribers -- has it. Look for it on newsstands in a week or so. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 21:30:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk In-Reply-To: <32.9147aee.26d20929@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:25 8/21/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >> The Barbarian (Unearthed Arcana) and Monk (PHB 1e) seemed revived because >> these were used frequently in Greyhawk world, with Scarlet Brotherhood and >> the northeastern barbarians. > >True, but the Monk class seems to correspond to the Mystaran Mystic, and >the Barbarian will work well as the default class for the goblinoids of the >Broken Lands. Why not for the Northern Reaches, too? Outside of the Heldannic Knights, I think many of the warriors from that neck of the woods can be modelled with Barbarians quite well. The same goes for the Ethengari and Autruaghins. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:54:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Duelist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 12:33:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DrklngMuse@AOL.COM writes: > I can't find any information on the Duelist Prestige class. Can somebody > point me in the right direction? I think it is described in the September issue of Dragon magazine. I can't give you any more information since I haven't yet seen that issue myself. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:01:16 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: D&D3e PHB = Greyhawk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 12:51:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Why not for the Northern Reaches, too? Outside of the Heldannic > Knights, I > think many of the warriors from that neck of the woods can be modelled with > Barbarians quite well. The same goes for the Ethengari and Autruaghins. I just went with what I was sure about. I would certainly consider Barbarians among the peoples you mention. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:26:54 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: vampire monks In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000818212036.0082f620@racine.ra.it>; from mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT on Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 09:20:36PM +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 09:20:36PM +0200, DM wrote: > Phillip Jones wrote: > > AARRGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!! > I remeber other vampire mystics encountered by my players once during M5, > Talons of Night. There were scores of phanaton vampires and vampire mystics > headed by Ramenhotep X, the so called "bloodsucking mystic", who in fact > drained once 8 LEVELS in one round (he was top level Mystic and got 5 > attacks per round, and hit one of my players 4 times, with double Level > drain each time!) I have fond memories of this event. A group of unarmoured guys charging the party, a smirking player, an npc down from damage in the first round (almost down from level draining!), one very shocked player. The first attack of the second round, one of the PCs was a very nice critical unfortunately, and killed Ramenhotep X outright in one blow. One very nice tactic for regenerating creatues s to have the front rank retreat behind the second rank to regenerate, then repeat. Sometimes the only way to stop it is to have a magic-user attack the second rank. -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were plowing a field, what you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024 http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel | processing ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:04:19 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I need to look more at how sorcerers acquire spells. While I don't want to > shaft players who play them, having them be nothing but, say, fireball > dispensers seems awfully dull to me. I think the difference will come from, for example, not learning Fly, Levitate, Alter Self, Water Breathing or Change Self - instead waiting till you get Polymorph Self which does all of the previous in one spell. A "fireball dispenser" is an exceptionally shortsighted view of what a sorceror can do. You could just take all the OD&D spells if you wanted (12 per level) and have a flexible wiz with all the core magics. The point is, the limit on number of spells is not a big deal. Its why sorcerors will be much more powerful than wizards IMO. A wizard would only be superior when you are talking about a very specialised situation where a specific spell is needed. And when sorcerors at the upper end get access to Wish and its derivatives, the need for a wizard to do even that is gone. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <002501c00b3e$07a7f6e0$9a01a8c0@rob> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:04 8/21/00 +0100, Rob wrote: >I think the difference will come from, for example, not learning Fly, >Levitate, Alter Self, Water Breathing or Change Self - instead waiting till >you get Polymorph Self which does all of the previous in one spell. And in the meantime, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, offering to blast whatever the problem is while the wizard PC spends 15 minutes filling one of their spell slots with a spell from their massive spell book. >A >"fireball dispenser" is an exceptionally shortsighted view of what a >sorceror can do. I think many players are exceptionally shortsighted. >The point is, the limit on number of spells is not a big deal. Its why >sorcerors will be much more powerful than wizards IMO. A wizard would only >be superior when you are talking about a very specialised situation where a >specific spell is needed. I can think of many "specialized" situations, personally. I don't know that most players will have the foresight, for instance, to forgo combat spells when making their then set-in-stone spell choices. Spells like Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, Discern Thoughts (ESP), Knock and Hold Portal will, I suspect, be much-missed when a crisis arises. All of those spells, IME, are non-sexy but often used spells. But if there's a low level Sorcerer character who doesn't specialize in Magic Missile, Sleep and Charm Person, I'll be greatly surprised. >And when sorcerors at the upper end get access to Wish and its derivatives, >the need for a wizard to do even that is gone. I will be stunned if I ever run or play in a campaign where anyone other than a single NPC ever has access to the Wish spell. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 02:00:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Barbarians In-Reply-To: <32.9147aee.26d20929@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Don't forget the barbarians in Norwold (CM1 Test of the Warlords) who, if you negotiate well with them, can be called to help you in the great war between Alphatian and Thyatian forces toward the end. If you deal with any of that group on an individual basis, they'd definitely be a good candidate for barbarian class. dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:09:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit : > > >I think the difference will come from, for example, not learning Fly, > >Levitate, Alter Self, Water Breathing or Change Self - instead waiting till > >you get Polymorph Self which does all of the previous in one spell. > > And in the meantime, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, offering to > blast whatever the problem is while the wizard PC spends 15 minutes filling > one of their spell slots with a spell from their massive spell book. Nahh. Take level 1 for example. What are they going to have? Magic missile, colour spray, sleep, grease, etc. etc etc. No. Magic Missile, maybe Sleep or Colour Spray (if they exist in 3E that is :) and the rest miscellaneous. Stuff like Invisibility is hard to pass up, I would have thought that a must. > >A > >"fireball dispenser" is an exceptionally shortsighted view of what a > >sorceror can do. > > I think many players are exceptionally shortsighted. Well, perhaps this will encourage them not to be... Spellbook crafting is one of my pasttimes :) > >The point is, the limit on number of spells is not a big deal. Its why > >sorcerors will be much more powerful than wizards IMO. A wizard would only > >be superior when you are talking about a very specialised situation where a > >specific spell is needed. > > I can think of many "specialized" situations, personally. I don't know > that most players will have the foresight, for instance, to forgo combat > spells when making their then set-in-stone spell choices. Spells like > Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, Discern Thoughts (ESP), Knock and Hold > Portal will, I suspect, be much-missed when a crisis arises. All of those > spells, IME, are non-sexy but often used spells. But if there's a low level > Sorcerer character who doesn't specialize in Magic Missile, Sleep and Charm > Person, I'll be greatly surprised. Well how many spells do they get exactly? Look at level 2. Essential spells, I would say, are, in some sort of order, Invisibility Detect Invisible Rope Trick Stinking Cloud Web Strength The rest is window dressing really. I doubt Know Alignment is necessary, or Levitate, or Knock, assuming you have a balanced party. Hold Portal is a poor spell. Simply because it can be duplicated nonmagically, or if you insist, magically by a host of other means. Just like Change Self is a poor spell, for the same reasons. If you are scrimping on spells, you want no slack there. You dont want to find yourself at level 12 with Change Self, Alter Self and Polymorph Self in your spellbook, because the first two are obsolete, especially if you have a thief disguise expert in the party. Work out what level you will attain, and craft your spellbook accordingly. > >And when sorcerors at the upper end get access to Wish and its derivatives, > >the need for a wizard to do even that is gone. > > I will be stunned if I ever run or play in a campaign where anyone other > than a single NPC ever has access to the Wish spell. Not any more, if the intent is to make higher levels more reachable for players. I ran a team up to level 20 ish, took about four years of play. Under 3E it could take one. I've never seen a Wish "cast in anger" by a PC yet. But I personally used Wildfire quite a bit, which is similar (in many ways better). Funny, when given access any spell in the book, it usually ends up something trivial - detect invisible, or seeming, or spectral force... Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:20:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX Subject: Re: Un-Familiar Familiars I once had a character who played a Fairy Dragon mage with a 1st level human fighter familiar. All the other players thought the Fighter was the PC, and the dragon some sort of pet. Ted ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:28:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX Subject: Re: Mystara Products for sale Annelise, E mail me off line please. -Ted -----Original Message----- From: Darth Darknerd [mailto:darknerd@HOTBOT.COM] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 7:44 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystara Products for sale me too --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:41:04 erewan laubgaenger wrote: >Annelise Johnsen wrote: > >> Hi All >> >> I've now sent out e-mails containing the list of products I'm selling. If >> anyone has e-mailed me, and not received any mail from me, pX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 >> Thanks > >send it to me. too. >IBON > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >Find Local Players: http://nafsasp.wizards.com/Registries/TSR/Welcome.asp >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:29:04 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystara Cosmology In-Reply-To: <27.9ee3924.26d1deef@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > While the Outer Beings are a nifty idea, I should point out that they are > purely a fan-based creation at this point. I know :) But they are just that nifty, that I added them into my cosmological view. Maybe for the sake of canon views, I should have removed them, tho. > I would delete this statement for two reasons: > make a case for humans being the least evolved living things on the > planet (because longer childhood equates to fewer generations and > thus fewer chances to evolve). No way! Humans breed like bunnies. To an Elf, humans "evolve" at near-fruitfly pace. > For that statement to be true you sould have to assume the existence > of thousands of alternate realities -- something that I do not recall you > stating implicitly. There are billions of immortals even in just this one reality! :) But true, I should have been explicit. > The information on that last point is contradictory if you take WotI into > account. Untrue. WoTI never talks much about full hierarchs, while the Gold Box does. The Gold Box states that there are only 5 Full Hierarchs in the multiverse, while WoTI leaves the number of 36th-level Immortals (full hierarch) open. I think it would be appropriate to assign each reality it's own hierarchs, since each reality is vastly different. For example, there are some realities where Immortal powers don't work. A Mystaran Full Hierarch travelling there would lose his powers. That Immortal couldn't use his power to keep the forces in balance. Therefore there has to be some sort of Immortal whose powers work there (Like an Immortal from that reality) who can do that Hierarch's job. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:42:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. >> The point is, the limit on number of spells is not a big deal. Its why sorcerors will be much more powerful than wizards IMO. << I donno. They are powerful in their own way, but I personally still like Wizards, for much the same reason I've always prefered "general" Wizards over Specialists - the versatility outweighs, for me, the other benifits. But obviously lots of people have different ideas, which is why there's room in the game system for both Sorcerers and Wizards. But I also suppose it depends on availability of spells in a campaign - for instance, in a campaign where spells are very hard to come by, if a Wizard doesn't end up having more than a couple more spells in his Spellbook than a Sorcerer knows, then obviously the benifits for being a Sorcerer will outweigh the (then relatively negligable) "drawback" of limited variety of spells - because the Wizard will be in a similar boat. So, depending on how DMs handle this one factor - availability of spells for Wizards to learn, (*and* I suppose also the frequency with which "esoteric" spells are useful) - it will probably vary from campaign to campaign as to whether Sorcerers are better than Wizards or about equal or worse. >> And when sorcerors at the upper end get access to Wish and its derivatives, the need for a wizard to do even that is gone. << Again with the Wish thing. Rob doesn't have (or unless he's changed his mind, plan to get) the 3E PH, so he possibly doesn't know of the high XP cost for casting Wish spells. A Sorcerer possibly wouldn't even learn Wish, because the oportunities to use it would be very few and far between. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:51:20 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Nations with Monk orders (was Prestige classes) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed I would add Broken lands: the Yellow Orks must have at least one monastery with active Monk masters, since all of them are trained in martial arts (at least, at a basic level). Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:56:17 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. Mystara wrote: > > I think many players are exceptionally shortsighted. > That comes under the heading of "their problem" 8-) >> I don't know that most players will have the foresight, for instance, to forgo combat spells when making their then set-in-stone spell choices. << Well, then they will either learn over time, and make different choices the next oportunity they have (leading to different characters, growing playing styles, or whatnot), and thus a different type of Sorcerer character as campaigns evolve, or they'll end up finding virtue in the old, disparaged Wizard character, or both. Or maybie they'll never learn, keep making the same mistakes over and over again, which will ultimately make life both easier and more boring for the DM. Same tricks will work every time, etc. Plus, IMO one kind of needs invisibility, Silence 15' radius, Comprehend Languages (well, depending on how significant language/communications problems are in a campaign), Discern Thoughts, Clairaudience & to a lesser degree Clairvoyance, Wizard Eye, etc. Heck, good recon. is half a Wizard's job. One Recons an area first, then comes back to blow it up later - or bypass it. Versatility. 8-) >> All of those spells, IME, are non-sexy but often used spells. Well, then people in your campaigns will either know to take such spells, or know that they need a "division of labor" - might have a character in the party who's got some levels in Sorcerer, who concentrates on blowing stuff up, and another character (Wizard) who "generalizes" and has the "esoteric" spells available. Or the party might try to forego one aspect, in which case they'll live to regret the decision. >> I doubt Know Alignment is necessary, or Levitate, or Knock, assuming you have a balanced party. << Levitate can be really useful. Knock comes in handy IMCs more often than one might have expected (picking locks and bashing doors only takes one so far IMCs - there are "Secure" doors that can't be opened without the use of Knock or some other similar magic, and doors that require both Knock and "mundain" opening methods sometimes). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Barbarians Mystara wrote: >> Don't forget the barbarians in Norwold << Plus, I always thought that the "Heldannic Freeholds" as originally concieved was meant to by the Known World's version of Cimmeria (you know, that place that one dude, whatsisname, oh yah - Conan, came from). Of course, now its HK Land, but that doesn't mean that the "native Heldanners" can't still have some Barbarian warriors among 'em. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:16:08 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/21/00 5:24:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: << Magic Missile, maybe Sleep or Colour Spray (if they exist in 3E that is :) and the rest miscellaneous. Stuff like Invisibility is hard to pass up, I would have thought that a must. >> The first Sorcerer I made had Invisibility, and it is the only second level spell he knew, even though he could cast it three times per day. Of course it took me about twenty minutes of debating with myself which would be more useful.... Invisibility, Melf's Acid Arrrow, or Rope Trick....before I finally decided. ;) -Deldain - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:22:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <001b01c00b68$a0bcb580$9a01a8c0@rob> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:09 8/21/00 +0100, Rob wrote: >> >I think the difference will come from, for example, not learning Fly, >> >Levitate, Alter Self, Water Breathing or Change Self - instead waiting >till >> >you get Polymorph Self which does all of the previous in one spell. >> >> And in the meantime, they'll be sitting on the sidelines, offering >to >> blast whatever the problem is while the wizard PC spends 15 minutes >filling >> one of their spell slots with a spell from their massive spell book. > >Nahh. Take level 1 for example. What are they going to have? Magic >missile, colour spray, sleep, grease, etc. etc etc. >No. > >Magic Missile, maybe Sleep or Colour Spray (if they exist in 3E that is :) >and the rest miscellaneous. Stuff like Invisibility is hard to pass up, I >would have thought that a must. "The rest miscellaneous?" 1st level sorcerers can only know two 1st level spells. That's the whole thing: With sorcerers, there IS no "rest." Sure, they can cast six ninth level spells eventually, but they ONLY KNOW three EVER. At sixth level, when they first get the chance to unleash any (three, in this case) third level spells a day, they can only know one. Hence "fireball dispenser." >> >A >> >"fireball dispenser" is an exceptionally shortsighted view of what a >> >sorceror can do. >> >> I think many players are exceptionally shortsighted. > >Well, perhaps this will encourage them not to be... Spellbook crafting is >one of my pasttimes :) Sorcerers don't have spellbooks. >Well how many spells do they get exactly? "Get?" They can typically cast 150 to 110 percent the number of their spells known. If a sorcerer casts every spell they can every day, they will always end up duplicating a fair number. >Look at level 2. Essential spells, I would say, are, in some sort of order, > >Invisibility >Detect Invisible >Rope Trick >Stinking Cloud >Web >Strength > >The rest is window dressing really. I doubt Know Alignment is necessary, or >Levitate, or Knock, assuming you have a balanced party. No sorcerer will ever know six second level spells. So they won't even be able to cast all of your essential list. >Hold Portal is a poor spell. Simply because it can be duplicated >nonmagically, or if you insist, magically by a host of other means. Not by a sorcerer. >Not any more, if the intent is to make higher levels more reachable for >players. It's not. Players keep insisting that, but WotC never said that, and it doesn't say that's the intention anywhere in the PHB. >Under 3E it could take one. I doubt it. Experience is given out in a new system, and WotC expects there to be 14 level-appropriate encounters for each level. I don't know about you, but 266 encounters won't take me a single year to DM. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 08:33:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:56 8/21/00 -0400, Evil Genius wrote: >> I think many players are exceptionally shortsighted. >That comes under the heading of "their problem" 8-) I absolutely agree. I was just defending my characterization of sorcerers as "fireball dispensers." >Levitate can be really useful. Knock comes in handy IMCs more often than one might have expected (picking locks and bashing doors only takes one so far IMCs - there are "Secure" doors that can't be opened without the use of Knock or some other similar magic, and doors that require both Knock and "mundain" opening methods sometimes). I'm especially fond of Wizard Lock. In a world with both rogues and wizards, there's no way most third level wizards would ever trust a simple mechanical lock again, not when they have a permanent spell at their disposal that would stymie everyone BUT another wizard. Combine it WITH a lock, and you've cut out unwanted intrusion by a fair margin right there. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:31:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Again with the Wish thing. > Rob doesn't have (or unless he's changed his mind, plan to get) the 3E PH, so he possibly doesn't know of the high XP cost for casting Wish spells. A Sorcerer possibly wouldn't even learn Wish, because the oportunities to use it would be very few and far between. Oh, I do - level goes up as an arithmetic rather than geometric progress, and wish is 5000xp. One of my friends has it, and I have leafed through it. I might scav it off him for a while to peruse... Limited Wish might be more valuable than Wish here. As LW can AFAIK duplicate spells of level 6 or less (ie, most of them - there are relatively few high level spells) and will presumably have a lower xp cost. I wonder if Wildfire will still be around? Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:34:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Levitate can be really useful. Knock comes in handy IMCs more often than one might have expected (picking locks and bashing doors only takes one so far IMCs - there are "Secure" doors that can't be opened without the use of Knock or some other similar magic, and doors that require both Knock and "mundain" opening methods sometimes). Knock is a tenuous one, I know a thief cant get through everything (though physically removing the door from the hinges is, according to an old Dragon, possible - so nothing stops a resourceful thief with tools and time). Levitate is only useful if you are denied Fly or Polymorph Self for some reason. If the DM intends to run a fairly hard party (level 7+) most of the time, I would lose Levitate and Fly for Polymorph - superior in all respects. If 7th level is considered to be almost God, than maybe not. But the point is - no duplication, no redundant spells. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:42:54 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "The rest miscellaneous?" 1st level sorcerers can only know two 1st level > spells. That's the whole thing: With sorcerers, there IS no "rest." Sure, > they can cast six ninth level spells eventually, but they ONLY KNOW three > EVER. I could live with that. Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Shapechange and... mmm. Depends. Third one floating. Certainly Wish is a contender, maybe Time Stop, maybe Temporal Stasis, maybe Imprisonment. None essential though. Shapechange should be the only one used really :) foul spell. > >Well, perhaps this will encourage them not to be... Spellbook crafting is > >one of my pasttimes :) > > Sorcerers don't have spellbooks. A technicality. They have spells they know. 2E mages have spells they know as well. Whether its in a spellbook or "innate" is irrelevant. They have a list of spells from which they can cast. > >Well how many spells do they get exactly? > > "Get?" They can typically cast 150 to 110 percent the number of their > spells known. If a sorcerer casts every spell they can every day, they will > always end up duplicating a fair number. Thats not in itself bad... How many do they keep in memory is the point? > >Look at level 2. Essential spells, I would say, are, in some sort of order, > > > >Invisibility > >Detect Invisible > >Rope Trick > >Stinking Cloud > >Web > >Strength > > > >The rest is window dressing really. I doubt Know Alignment is necessary, or > >Levitate, or Knock, assuming you have a balanced party. > > No sorcerer will ever know six second level spells. So they won't even be >able to cast all of your essential list. Well, Invisibility, Stinking Cloud and Rope Trick will do in a pinch. You can live without Web, and you can certainly live without Strength. Rope Trick duplicates Knock spells if you have a thin enough door. Again, no duplication. > >Hold Portal is a poor spell. Simply because it can be duplicated > >nonmagically, or if you insist, magically by a host of other means. > > Not by a sorcerer. No? He cant just wedge something in the door? You know, its possible to block a door in real life without using magic. If he wanted to do it magically, is Knock no longer reversible in 3E? Have they axed the various Wall spells? > >Not any more, if the intent is to make higher levels more reachable for > >players. > > It's not. Players keep insisting that, but WotC never said that, and it > doesn't say that's the intention anywhere in the PHB. > > >Under 3E it could take one. > > I doubt it. Experience is given out in a new system, and WotC expects > there to be 14 level-appropriate encounters for each level. I don't know > about you, but 266 encounters won't take me a single year to DM. Running every Sunday afternoon - probably. I would say two or three encounters per session on average, maybe less in a slow session, maybe more in a quick one. Ultimately its irrelevant. I know of no DM around here who actually uses the xp systems as given. I just dole out xp broadly in line with what level they are aiming the PCs to attain. If I want to run high level, I'll dole out more xp, if not, I'll dole out less. Once you have an idea of an "average" amount, you can fool with it to reward good/bad play. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:35:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Evil Genius wrote: > Levitate can be really useful. Knock comes in handy IMCs more Levitate and Fly are not spells I normally allow into my campaigns, along with Continual Light. To me they compromise the flavor and make the game feel too much like superheroes. Previously I just didn't magic users find these in scrolls or books, but with sorcerers I'll probably just have to disallow them altogether. (I might allow them as a potion though). Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:50:46 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts . MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" D. S. Rickards wrote: > When I started playing in Mystara all Elves where essentially > multi-classed fighter/MU's, even the ones in the creatures > section, to me this meant that all elves had a natural spell > casting ability. It was an innate ability of those with Elven > blood. This innate spellcasting ability seems to be more > "Sorcerer" than "Wizard," so for my new Mystara campaign, > (starting soon) I have decided to make Sorcerer the preferred > class of Elves, and anyone playing a full-blooded Elf of level > 3 or higher would lose 20% of their experience if they had no > levels of sorcery. Plus any character who had the Sorcerer > class would have to allow for a drop of Elven blood. I was already planning on making Sorcery an elvish form of magic, but it had not occurred to me to make it the preferred class. Great idea. Now I'm thinking that all mystaran elves will be REQUIRED to multiclass as a sorcerer for at least 1 level. Since there is no XP penalty for preferred class, that is not a major restriction, but it lets all elves use magic items and cast a few innate spells, even those that don't formally study magic. Elves who study magic formally will be multiclassed Sorcerer/Wizards. I also like the idea that elvish blood is required for sorcerers. I won't require half-elves to learn sorcery, but having the potential would make the race more distinctive. I'm not sure about gnomes. Mystaran gnomes don't seem to be illusionists, and I've never particularly liked the illusionist aspect of them anyway. In fact I've always considered gnomes to be a subtype of dwarf, just like white people are a subtype of human. How about dwarves? In 3e only spellcasters can craft magic items (like weapons), which means that dwarven craftsmen will have to pick up a few levels as a spellcaster. I'm tempted to allow dwarves to become sorcerers but not wizards, since Sorcery seems to be more innate, the way I imagine an enchanted blacksmith to be. Also dwarves should not be studying spellbooks and should not have a great variety of spells; a few combat and utility spells (True Strike, Unseen Servant, Light, etc) seem properly dwarvish though. I always liked Tolkien's spellcasting dwarves, and I've always considered dwarves to be magical, just not in an obvious flashy way. Maybe the DMG will have an NPC class for "mystic artisan" or something. I don't see halflings as sorcerers at all. No magic talent. But I can imagine a halfling getting old of a magic book and learning a few spells as a wizard, or deciphering a magic scroll as a rogue. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:51:48 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: On XP Wishes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To those with concerns about the logics of Wishes costing XP causing level loss, I would propose a "house rule": you can burn as many XP in wishes and you don't lose a level, but you get a "negative XP buffer", that is, you can be a 20th level wizard or sorcerer with -15000 XP (or more) that you must "re-earn" before going back to standard level advancement (then you should win the regular experience for moving from 20th to 21st lvl, of course). That way PCs must make a choice between "easy power" and increasing their knowledge, it balances powerful spells and is justifiable in game background: trust too much in the Powers of Beyond and you're going to grown comfortable and stop developing your skills the "hard way". Level loss would seem a bit absurd, especially if we want to keep a Mystara flavour, where there are some magical feats which are not munchkinism but requite Wishes, like the creation of skyships and complex magic items. Getting "sidetracked in Wishing" and needing like tons of XP more than other PCs to keep your level seems balancing enough, but not losing levels. It could be similar to choosing between expending XP in the Secret Crafts or expending them in advancing level. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:55:00 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HI, I wonder what's the list opinion on the 7 crafts of Glantri and Wizardry/Sorcery. Should they be allowed only to wizards, as they are based on the study of arcane formulae and lore and require wizard training, or could a plain sorcerer find shortcuts to master them? The idea of a independent-innate Master of a Craft is scary, not to speak of the Radiance, but it could give way to a good campaign hook. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:13:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Barbarians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Mystara wrote: >> Don't forget the barbarians in Norwold I've been thinking that I'm not going to go with dark ages "vikings" in Norwold, but rather with medieval style knights in glittering armor. Think of the nordic countries in 1400 instead of 900. I don't have the gaz anyway, and vikings seem like an anachronism. Evil Genius wrote: > Plus, I always thought that the "Heldannic Freeholds" as > originally concieved was meant to by the Known World's > version of Cimmeria Yeah, me too. But I kind of like the fascist Heldanners, so I think I'll move the "Cimmerians" to Adri Varma or beyond. Besides it'll give the Master of Hule a check to his ambitions. I was going to put them on Atruaghin but I think for that region I've settled on just advancing the dusky-skinned Atruaghin clans to a medieval level of technology, and make it into a region dominated by local city-states. The theme of wandering into a local city state, working your way up to general of the army, and then ousting the local King has tons of RP potential and is very common in swords-and-sorcery of the Conan variety, but there's no place on Mystara where it makes sense, because everything is part of a large kingdom. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:19:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Offhand I'd say wizards only. After all they require initiation into the "secret", and it's not much of a secret if a sorcerer can guess it. Personally I'd say that each secret craft should be a prestige class available to wizards, so if a sorcerer wants in on the action he'll need to buckle down and do some serious study for a change. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 15:22:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic Mystara wrote: >> HI, I wonder what's the list opinion on the 7 crafts of Glantri and Wizardry/Sorcery. << IMO, the Secret Crafts will make *excellent* Prestige Classes. Thus they'd be "technically" open to not only just Wizards & Sorcerers (per the August issue of TD, "Class" isn't a recomended restriction). HOWEVER - the requirements for taking levels in one would be restrictive in effect (knowing certain spells or things that only a Wizard or Sorcerer is likely to know as a precondition/requirement). We'll have to see, once the 3E DM's Guide comes out, by as of now I personally think the Secret Crafts are likely to be best translated as Prestige Classes. Another option would be to have them be translated as a series "Feats" one can learn as one progresses, based on membership in the Craft, but that has problems of its own. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:14:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: <000d01c00ba1$50233a20$3214ebc3@uchicago.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 20:55 08/21/2000 +0200, Andr=E9s Piquer Otero wrote: >I wonder what's the list opinion on the 7 crafts of Glantri and >Wizardry/Sorcery. Should they be allowed only to wizards, as they are based >on the study of arcane formulae and lore and require wizard training, or >could a plain sorcerer find shortcuts to master them? The idea of a >independent-innate Master of a Craft is scary, not to speak of the= Radiance, >but it could give way to a good campaign hook. I think they should be prestige classes requiring that the caster be able to cast a certain level of arcane magic spells and certain craft-dependent spells and have certain ranks of certain classes.=20 The Wokani, for instance, might have to know Herbalism -- if that's still in 3E (I forget) -- to a certain level in addition to being able to cast fifth level arcane spells, whereas Necromancy might require knowledge of "animate dead" and some other necromantic spells. I see no problem allowing sorcerers and bards access to these prestige classes IF they can find out about them and IF the other members of the craft allow them in. In other words, it ain't gonna happen, but the door's left open for it to happen for a good hook later on. (And, yeah, this goes for the Radiance, too.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:09:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC5F2@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:50 08/21/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: >I don't see halflings as sorcerers at all. No magic talent. Excepting, of course, hin masters. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:49:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: 3E Musings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" James Heard wrote: > > bing@ICCOM.COM writes: >> Not a matter of forgetting. The PHB is big and I haven't >> had time yet to absorb it thoroughly. 5000 XP seems like >> a reasonable cost for a Wish. I think as a house rule I >> will also make Wish available to clerics as a 9th level >> spell. > > Why? Clerics have Miracle, their own version of Wish =) DOH! Must... read... faster... Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:02:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Barbarians >> The theme of wandering into a local city state, working your way up to general of the army, and then ousting the yokel King has tons of RP potential and is very common in swords-and-sorcery of the Conan variety, but there's no place on Mystara where it makes sense, because everything is part of a large kingdom. << Yes, except most of those Kingdoms aren't that large (they're about the size of Hyperborean World Kingdoms if not smaller. Karameikos really only has one city, and a medium-sized hinterland. Same with Vestland. Soderfjord is all pocket-fiefdoms. Ostland is one burg and several islands. Ylaruam has one main city. Darokin I guess is a different matter, but its fairly easy to treat Darokin like an alliance/confederation of City-States). Most Mystaran countries are rather smallish, actually. Conan's Aquilonia was much, much bigger really. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:03:44 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Barbarians of Brun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Plus, I always thought that the "Heldannic Freeholds" as originally concieved was meant to by the Known World's version of Cimmeria (you know, that place that one dude, whatsisname, oh yah - Conan, came from). Of course, now its HK Land, but that doesn't mean that the "native Heldanners" can't still have some Barbarian warriors among 'em. Yes, I would support barbarian characters in Mystara as coming from: Backwater fjords of the northern reaches Native heldanners Davanian hinterlands Serpent peninsula Great Waste Easterhold and (Ill take some heat for this) there might be Barbarous tribes in the remoter regions of Ylaruam and Ethengar. You can go beyond this to 'uncharted/gazeteered' areas of Mystara. I'd also include possible non-human barbarians found in the Brokenlands, Yazak Steppes, most of the "anthrpomorphed races" in the Savage coast, and even maybe die-hard, traditionalist elves of the more savage clans roaming the remains of the Sylvan realm. Who knows, there could be barbarian Hin on scattered islands of the Sea of Dread? To address an additional mystara/3e question that has popped up here on the web, it seems to me that many Alfheim elves would be candidates for Ranger status, not fighter-magic user. this captures their wilderness basis, their fighting skill, and spell ability. And the Forresters, by extension, would also be rangers. JMTC, BoBoII ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:03 08/21/2000 EDT, Master's Pawn wrote: >Yes, I would support barbarian characters in Mystara as coming from: >Backwater fjords of the northern reaches >Native heldanners >Davanian hinterlands >Serpent peninsula >Great Waste >Easterhold >and (Ill take some heat for this) there might be Barbarous tribes in the remoter regions of Ylaruam and Ethengar. I won't give any heat about Ethengar -- I think it makes perfect sense -- but why Ylaruam? I can't think of RW Bedu tribes that have anything like barbarian rage or immunity to damage. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:42:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Barbarians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Harvey, Michael wrote: > I've been thinking that I'm not going to go with dark ages "vikings" = in > Norwold, but rather with medieval style knights in glittering armor. = Think > of the nordic countries in 1400 instead of 900. I don't have the gaz = anyway, > and vikings seem like an anachronism. It's not a Gaz, it's the module CM1: Test of the Warlords. And they do = have plenty of knights in glittering armor (the illustrations certainly = seem to imply that). The barbarians mentioned are a wandering tribe of = nomadic people who are in every way 'barbarian', while the dominion = holders under King Ericall are very medieval in nature. If you're talking about the Northern Reaches GAZ then Vestland is very = similar to the nordic countries around 1400 (perhaps 1200-1300 is more = accurate) while Ostland and Soderfjord are simlar to the earlier period = of viking culture. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 17:45:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I can't think of RW Bedu tribes that have anything like barbarian rage or immunity to damage.>> Well, yeah, but who realy does, huh? I just meant that there might be real hardcore, Makistani hill tribes that are still "wild" to the rest of the Ylari poeples. But I guess the Eternal Truth has peobably reached most of Ylaruam and has driven out the 'barbarism." Just a thought. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:42:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Barbarians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would add to the list the barbarian tribes that are probably indigenous to Denagoth and Essuria. Although there are some civilized kingdoms (or at least were in the 10th century AC), X11 speaks of "barbarian clans" as both Henadin's horde and the Denagothian human population. This is one of Mystara's areas which seems more "wild fantasy" � la Conan, so it makes sense to have nucleus of "traditional barbarians" there. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:03:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ryan Seratt Subject: Re: Duelist? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the info. Ryan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:25:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 3:31:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > At 11:50 08/21/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: > > >I don't see halflings as sorcerers at all. No magic talent. > > Excepting, of course, hin masters. Who probably use divine magic rather than arcane magic. Dwarves have no problem with divine magic either. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:42:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000821002857.007b6ec0@10.1.1.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be stunned if I ever run or play in a campaign where anyone other than a single NPC ever has access to the Wish spell. This is exactly the way to look at this problem; I do not allow most of the named spells, i.e. Tasha's Uncontrollable Laughter, Dumbass' Extremely Munchkin Kick Ass Ray or whatever. (BTW: I do not want suggest that only named spells are like this, I actually ignore them because I do not the feel they create.) I also ignore wishes. One of the things that I have found to be a particularly effective is to create what a mini-players guide for players that lists spell lists, money differences, new class restrictions, and background materials. My players love this, it is something they can refer to during a game instead of asking me questions, and if you spice it up with some background materials the players look at as if they were getting a free game supplement. I will grant most people that I have some advantages in doing this. In my current job, I have access to a very nice color print and can actually produce mine with production values approaching that of TSR. Also since I am a Graphic Designer/Publications Specialist in the new contracts division of a government contractor I have a lot of "Hurry Up and Wait" time that allows me to work on these things. My new one, which will be ready around October 1, is probably going to be a hundred glossy pages long. That being said, this was not always the case, and my players were very excited about my original ten-page black and white that I created years ago for Pendragon. As my skills and resources have evolved, so have my background packets. Most of this stuff is just compiling a few of your DM notes. Er, back to the advantages, one thing I like about my packets is that players have learned (and teach new players) to refer to the packet before they search the PHB. Dylan R. BTW: If any of you are interested in Layout/Publication the you can create your beast and add it to your portfolio. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:56:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 3:08:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES writes: > I wonder what's the list opinion on the 7 crafts of Glantri and > Wizardry/Sorcery. Should they be allowed only to wizards, as they are based > on the study of arcane formulae and lore and require wizard training, or > could a plain sorcerer find shortcuts to master them? The idea of a > independent-innate Master of a Craft is scary, not to speak of the Radiance, > but it could give way to a good campaign hook. I think that the answer to that question depends on whether Glantri has sorcerers and what their social status is. Only if the wizards accept them as full equals would they have a shot a joining a Secret Craft. My personal opinion is that all arcane spellcasters would qualify as "gents" in Glantri, but only wizards could pass the exams given at the Great School of Magic and become nobles through that route. Only heroc acts would enable a sorcerer such as Dolores Hillsbury to become a noble (and in fact that is just how she did it). Maybe her different approach to magic would explain her inability to figure out anything about the Radiance or any of the Secret Crafts. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:23:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000821002857.007b6ec0@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:28 AM 8/21/00 -0700, you wrote: > > I can think of many "specialized" situations, personally. I don't know >that most players will have the foresight, for instance, to forgo combat >spells when making their then set-in-stone spell choices. Spells like >Invisibility, Comprehend Languages, Discern Thoughts (ESP), Knock and Hold >Portal will, I suspect, be much-missed when a crisis arises. All of those >spells, IME, are non-sexy but often used spells. But if there's a low level >Sorcerer character who doesn't specialize in Magic Missile, Sleep and Charm >Person, I'll be greatly surprised. I agree with you, Beau, that most players are probably somewhat short-sighted in situations like this, and will go for the "Big Bang" type spells for their sorcerors, and it's unfortunate. Myself, I think there are tons of possibilities other than that, especially for multiclass sorcerors. For example, I've got an NPC I've been working on for sometime now who is a multiclassed Sorceror/Rogue, and the spell selection I've chosen for him fits with his background as a sort of magical detective. Given that many Rogue skills can be used to duplicate or otherwise emulate some spells, and some spells can be used to enhance or emulate other Roguish skills, I've chosen a very good selection of abilities to more fully enable the character to accomplish his tasks. Of course, there are still spells I go- "Dang! I want that one, too!", which I can't, because of spell limits. In any case, the character has no "Big Bang" spells at all in his repertoire, but doesn't hurt any because of it. For me, that's kind of the true appeal of the Sorceror class (and Der Verdammte, a playtester, seemed to agree on this point once). With anything, though, I think it's just what people are willing to make of it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:34:05 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:22 PM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote: > >IMO, the Secret Crafts will make *excellent* Prestige Classes. Thus they'd be >"technically" open to not only just Wizards & Sorcerers (per the August issue of >TD, "Class" isn't a recomended restriction). HOWEVER - the requirements for >taking levels in one would be restrictive in effect (knowing certain spells or >things that only a Wizard or Sorcerer is likely to know as a >precondition/requirement). One would need to know some form of magic, which rules out most classes. Also, one would have to be a member of the Great School of Magic (or know someone in a craft, like Jaggar), which pretty effectively rules out Clerics/Druids (in Glantri, anyway), so I think we need not worry about anyone other than Wizards or Sorcerors populating the ranks of the Secret Crafts. >We'll have to see, once the 3E DM's Guide comes out, by as of now I personally >think the Secret Crafts are likely to be best translated as Prestige Classes. True, but I think a lot of work needs to be done with some of them, for sure. The Dream Masters (notably) need a lot of work, as most of their abilities are just adaptations of AD&D Illusionist spells that didn't exist in OD&D, but are pretty standard in AD&D and the new D&D rules system. (One of the problems I ran into when adapting the craft as the Phantasmer for AD&D 2nd Ed.) >Another option would be to have them be translated as a series "Feats" one can >learn as one progresses, based on membership in the Craft, but that has problems >of its own. That was my initial thought, too, but you're right about the problems it causes. It's mitigated somewhat by the Bonus Feats Wizards get (IE, taking Feats in the crafts won't substantially hinder their gains elsewhere), but the abilities they provide seem out of keeping with the other Feats... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:25:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <57.a355ed6.26d32270@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:25 8/21/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >> >I don't see halflings as sorcerers at all. No magic talent. >> Excepting, of course, hin masters. > >Who probably use divine magic rather than arcane magic. Prob'ly. No idea what the Mystara3E people are doing -- this may already be delegated -- but I was planning on adapting the Hin Master from the "Five Shires" Gazetteer as written and filling in with bits from the Druid progression tables for things like hit points and skills. >Dwarves have no problem with divine magic either. Except ... there needs to be a mechanism in place to enable dwarves to enchant items. Maybe this is already covered in the "Rockhome" Gazetteer, I don't know. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:56:35 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara Cosmology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 10:31:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > > make a case for humans being the least evolved living things on the > > planet (because longer childhood equates to fewer generations and > > thus fewer chances to evolve). > > No way! Humans breed like bunnies. To an Elf, humans "evolve" at > near-fruitfly pace. Actually that reference was to the real world, which has no beings like Elves. Obviously demi-humans would be in the same position relative to humans that humans are relative to animals in terms of rate of evolutionary change. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:55:27 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-21 9:50:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Prob'ly. No idea what the Mystara3E people are doing -- this may > already be delegated -- but I was planning on adapting the Hin Master from the > "Five Shires" Gazetteer as written and filling in with bits from the Druid > progression tables for things like hit points and skills. It has not been delegated -- but if you come up with something I will be glad to pass it on. > >Dwarves have no problem with divine magic either. > > Except ... there needs to be a mechanism in place to enable dwarves to > enchant items. Maybe this is already covered in the "Rockhome" Gazetteer, I > don't know. No problem there, according to the 3E PHB. The item creation feats all have the prerequisite of being a spellcaster of a certain level or higher. Dwarf clerics can easily meet those requirements. As for Gaz 6 -- yes, it does have item creation rules very similar to those of the 3E PHB, and it suggests that non-Clerics might be able to create magic items. So it just may be possible to give Dwarves access to the item creation feats even if they are not spellcasters. Can anyone think of a reason why that wouldn't work? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:24:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000821182509.007bc8a0@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:25 PM 8/21/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Except ... there needs to be a mechanism in place to enable dwarves to >enchant items. Maybe this is already covered in the "Rockhome" Gazetteer, I >don't know. In Gaz6, Dwarves use up XP in order to enchant items with "plusses"- anything else needs to be done in conjunction with a magic-user. This would be very simple to adapt to 3E- allow dwarvish characters to take the "Enchant Arms and Armor" feat, and use the item creation rules from the new rules set (which also uses xp sacrifices). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:26:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <25.9de4067.26d3459f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:55 PM 8/21/00 EDT, you wrote: > >As for Gaz 6 -- yes, it does have item creation rules very similar to those >of the 3E PHB, and it suggests that non-Clerics might be able to create >magic items. So it just may be possible to give Dwarves access to the >item creation feats even if they are not spellcasters. Can anyone think >of a reason why that wouldn't work? Nope, not at all, as I just posted. The caveat I'd make is that they can only get the "Enchant Arms and Armor" feat, and can only use that to add "plusses" to arms and armor. Anything else would require them to either be or have access to a spellcaster. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:41:19 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >IMO, the Secret Crafts will make *excellent* Prestige Classes. Thus they'd > be >"technically" open to not only just Wizards & Sorcerers (per the August > issue of >TD, "Class" isn't a recomended restriction). HOWEVER - the > requirements for >taking levels in one would be restrictive in effect > (knowing certain spells or >things that only a Wizard or Sorcerer is likely > to know as a >precondition/requirement). I haven't read the Dragon article on Prestige Classes yet, but my opinion is that in some cases "Class" is a viable restriction. I do agree it should be avoided when possible, but some Prestige Classes may very well call for it. I am not saying this is a cut and dried case of an example of such a situation. Just that the article cannot cover all situations. > >We'll have to see, once the 3E DM's Guide comes out, by as of now I > personally >think the Secret Crafts are likely to be best translated as > Prestige Classes. Having access to the Prestige Classes of the DMG, I do agree that Prestige Classes are the way to go with the Secret Crafts. As Andrew pointed out they will have to be fleshed out and a lot of work done, but it still seems like the best way to go. > >Another option would be to have them be translated as a series "Feats" one > can >learn as one progresses, based on membership in the Craft, but that > has problems >of its own. > > That was my initial thought, too, but you're right about the problems it > causes. It's mitigated somewhat by the Bonus Feats Wizards get (IE, taking > Feats in the crafts won't substantially hinder their gains elsewhere), but > the abilities they provide seem out of keeping with the other Feats... My first thought was to make them feats as well, but the slow rate at which feats are gained, and the value of feats overall makes mastery of a Craft a costly endeavor. Not that such a thing should be easy, mind you, but I do think that is pushing it. I suppose one could term the feats metamagic and say the wizard can use their bonus feats, but that seems to be stretching the metamagic bonus feat concept a bit. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 21:44:17 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott meandered fecklessly... > > Except ... there needs to be a mechanism in place to enable > dwarves to > > enchant items. Maybe this is already covered in the "Rockhome" Gazetteer, I > > don't know. > > As for Gaz 6 -- yes, it does have item creation rules very similar to those > of the 3E PHB, and it suggests that non-Clerics might be able to create > magic items. So it just may be possible to give Dwarves access to the > item creation feats even if they are not spellcasters. Can anyone think > of a reason why that wouldn't work? I don't see any reason why not, myself. I would raise the prerequisite levels, but otherwise the concept seems fine to me. I don't see that the item creation feats are necessarily _balanced_ by being strictly for spellcasters. That strikes me as more of a flavor kind of thing. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:28:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: <03e701c00bea$d558e700$b188a1d8@thedeadlands> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:41 8/21/00 -0600, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >I haven't read the Dragon article on Prestige Classes yet, but >my opinion is that in some cases "Class" is a viable restriction. >I do agree it should be avoided when possible, but some Prestige >Classes may very well call for it. >I am not saying this is a cut and dried case of an example of >such a situation. Just that the article cannot cover all situations. Like what? I've thought about this a lot, myself, and I can't think of any. Got a prestige class that's typically for priests? Set a high divine spell casting level. Some exceptional paladins, druids and rangers might rarely qualify for it. The same goes with wizard-aimed prestige classes and sorcerers and bards. Combat-oriented classes could have a minimum attack bonus required. I don't think there's anything gained by specifying that a given prestige class is only open to a single class. One can use generic restrictions that almost guarantee it, but why definitively close the door on other possibilities? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:35:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/20/00 9:55:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > Good point, Stalker, about the Glantrians and Alphatians having > common roots. I definitely want to make them all wizards then, with > their arcane tomes and grueling hours at the lab bench and library, > etc. The exception I'm considering is sorcerous prestige classes for > the seven secret crafts. I eagerly await the DMG to help decide how > to handle all this. > =20 > Regarding elves, David (Knott), my aim is to keep a lot of what I see > as the flavor of OD&D by restricting class/race combinations. Since > there were never any bards (in the class sense) in my Mystara before, > I don't really want to introduce them. I feel that fighter elves or > sorceror elves are not too much of a stretch if the default is > usually fighter/sorceror, but I'm not going to have elven clerics, > rogues, etc. I considered making a new Forestor class that combines > the magic and fighting in lieu of multiclassing, but then upon > further thought about the differences in Alfheim clans, decided it > might be easier to have elves with varying levels of fighter vs. > sorceror to them, with most keeping roughly even levels unless > they're from particularly warlike or magic-loving clans. The > question then becomes whether Thyatian human Forestors are somehow > able to tap into sorcery, or whether they learn wizardry that tries > to emulate elven sorcery as closely as possible. Not easy to sort > out. > =20 If you are having elves in Mystara be fighter/sorcerers, I think it would=20 be perfectly reasonable to make Foresters the same. In DotE, it refers to=20 forester candidates having "an affinity for the elvish way of life". This=20 could mean, in order to learn Elven sorcery one must learn to commune=20 closely with nature (which is the link between elves and the source of=20 magic). I do not know if any canon material refers to elven magic being innate, but adopting such a viewpoint about elves certainly feels right. =20 There is no reason to assume that the same innate magic cannot be=20 present in some humans as well. Elves (as 3E Sorcerers) would use this=20 innate ability to "tap" directly into the source of magic. Those humans=20 with an innate ability can then be taught to enhance their natural gift using the very same techniques the elves use=E2=80=94hence they can become=20 foresters. DotE says the foresters are few in number, so using=20 fighter/sorcerers to represent them does not destroy the mystique of=20 elves being the only ones on Mystara using sorcery [whomever mentioned=20 that=E2=80=94it may not have been you]. Your idea that some elves will favo= r either=20 magic or martial skill more than the other makes elves realistically diverse= .=20 =20 I would suggest having the choice to favor one over the other (or to=20 "balance"=20 their skills) be a choice that each elf must make for themself (partially=20 influenced by having greater taIent in one area or the other). Finally, I=20 would=20 advise against having Forester magic simply be normal wizard magic "that=20 tries to emulate elven sorcery" because it detracts from the elves' mystique= .=20 =20 The elves are training the human candidates to be a kind of "honorary elf"=20 and they are fully capable of helping humans (that are already gifted with=20 innate magical ability) hone their abilities as they would one of their own.= =20 It is also possible that, now and then, the elves accept a forester candidat= e=20 that has no magical ability whatsoever. They train these individuals as=20 warriors with a deep respect for nature and the forest. In time, these=20 "defenders of the forest" become so in tune with the forest that they are=20 able to somewhat sense the magical lifeforce of the forest the way elves do.= =20 This may give them a few minor, divination-like abilities when in a forest. who-using=20 sorcererTo begin with, it feels right to use the sorcerer class for elves,=20 as their use of magic tand would pay =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.