========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 01:37:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") In-Reply-To: <44.698bd9a.26d37947@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Thank you very much, SR, for your thoughts. I hadn't considered the clear logic that, if elves can be single-class fighters if they want, Foresters unable to use magic are okay! They can just learn the elven way of being a fighter, as you describe. I'd like there to be something innate that gives certain special humans the possibility of wielding elven (sorcerous) magic, and that this quality be necessary, though not sufficient, for becoming a Forester who wields magic. I don't think the details of that quality need be known with certainty by anyone on Mystara. So far as everyone knows, it may just work with some humans and not others. But there can be plenty of theories, preeminent among which would be that humans who can learn elven magic have at least some elven blood in them. I like your idea that some Foresters could start out unable to learn elven magic, but after a few levels of fighter gain enough of a connection to nature and the elven spirit that they can then do it. This connection, like the innate feature, could be necessary but not sufficient. So some Foresters could spend their lives trying to learn elven magic and never succeed, not knowing whether they just lack the gift, haven't "made the connection," or both. I apologize for the length here, but some more ideas about elven blood and Forestors occurred to me. Just thoughts to toss out. We know that on Mystara there are two subspecies of humans, one of which is capable of learning arcane magic (and, in OD&D terms, becoming MUs) and one of which is not. We also know that there are no half-elves in the AD&D sense, but that the progeny of elves and humans are essentially elf or human based on the race of the parent of the same gender (see GAZ5). So there are humans with elven lineage, even though they gain no elven abilities and appear completely human. Well, if you want Foresters who can and cannot use elven magic, but don't want to make it clear what the innate quality is, this could be a simple rule that creates enough randomness to elude definitive understanding of it: Wielding elven (sorcerous) magic requires 1) a deep spiritual connection with nature that can be learned 2) some elven blood (i.e. some elven ancestry, possibly a minimum amount) 3) no blood of the human subspecies that allows for MU (wizardly) magic (or possibly no more than a certain maximum amount) This means that even if you have some elven blood you might not be able to become a Forester because your human lineage has some (or too much) "wizard blood" in it. This would throw sages for a loop since they would find magic-wielding Foresters with no clear elven ancestry (since elven blood doesn't just "show" plainly) AND non-magic-wielding Foresters with clear elven ancestry. Note that this rule could also apply to elves themselves. 2) and 3) are a given for pureblooded elves, but some rare elves may not wield magic because they lack 1). Of course some elves, like some Foresters, may be perfectly capable of learning magic, but too interested in martial pursuits to bother. Also note that this rule would not prevent elves from learning wizardly magic. Elven sorcerous magic is precluded by "wizardly blood" but the reverse is not true, i.e. wizardly magic is not precluded by elven blood. What do you think? ./ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \. < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > .\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /. "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:48:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> I can't think of RW Bedu tribes that have anything like barbarian rage or immunity to damage.<< >=20 > Well, yeah, but who realy does, huh? The berserker warriors of Thor in Ostland? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun BoboII wrote: >Yes, I would support barbarian characters in Mystara as coming from: >Easterhold Ah yes, the vicious tribes of egg-laying bunnies, who deal death with one paw, and dispense sugar-rich chocolate with the other. Much feared by civilised folk everywhere. :-) Sorry, couldn't resist it, but the Jennites of Esterhold get mighty upset whenever they're confused with these furry barbarians. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:04:47 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun BoboII wrote: >I just meant that there might be real hardcore, Makistani hill tribes that are still "wild" to the rest of the Ylari poeples. But I guess the Eternal Truth has peobably reached most of Ylaruam and has driven out the 'barbarism." Just a thought. I think this is a good idea, really. Perhaps the warriors among the Magian Fire Worshippers could count as barbarians, and I'm sure there are Makistani hillmen who haven't embraced Al-Kalim's teachings. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:23:55 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun >> Ah yes, the vicious tribes of egg-laying bunnies, who deal death with one paw, and dispense sugar-rich chocolate with the other. Much feared by civilised folk everywhere. << Hey, didja ever play Bunnies & Burrows? What about Rabbit Rampage (or, "Wabbit Wampage")? Don't mess with the rabbits, they'll eat you alive! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:07:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Bunnies of Brun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, didja ever play Bunnies & Burrows? What about Rabbit Rampage (or, "Wabbit Wampage")? No but at DragonCon '99 I played in a demo game of Ironclaw, which was a world of anthropomorphised animals as the fantasy races : Horses, bunnies, foxes,etc. With a kind of Redwall feel. It was fun and had a nice system that I picked up for the fun of it. In Mystara terms, it give you a feel for some of the Lupin, Rakasta kingdoms of the SC. So . . . where is the Bunny-man kingdom in Mystara? Group answer = "I think the MOrient people were doing something like this, but you'll have to contact them." OR "Check Shawn's site. I think I remember something by someone being there once." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:33:36 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Bunnies of Brun In-Reply-To: ; from BoBoII@AOL.COM on Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 11:07:15AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Tue, Aug 22, 2000 at 11:07:15AM -0400, Master's Pawn wrote: > So . . . where is the Bunny-man kingdom in Mystara? > > Group answer = "I think the MOrient people were doing something like this, but you'll have to contact them." > > OR > > "Check Shawn's site. I think I remember something by someone being there once." LOL! :) Well, checking Shawn's site isn't that bad an idea when looking for old stuff of course :) gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:12:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Bunnies of Brun In-Reply-To: <20000822163336.B4052@esatclear.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:33 8/22/00 +0100, Gordon McCormick wrote: >> So . . . where is the Bunny-man kingdom in Mystara? >> >> Group answer = "I think the MOrient people were doing something like this, but you'll have to contact them." >> >> OR >> >> "Check Shawn's site. I think I remember something by someone being there once." > >LOL! :) > >Well, checking Shawn's site isn't that bad an idea when looking for >old stuff of course :) You know, Reaper Mini has some GREAT rabbitmen minis that recently made me think "gee, you know, it's a shame there's no Bunny-man kingdom in Mystara ..." Seriously. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 12:00:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" David S Leland wrote: > We > know that on Mystara there are two subspecies of humans, one of which > is capable of learning arcane magic (and, in OD&D terms, becoming > MUs) and one of which is not. Which human subraces are incapable of learning arcane magic? > We also know that there are no > half-elves in the AD&D sense, but that the progeny of elves and > humans are essentially elf or human based on the race of the parent > of the same gender (see GAZ5). Do we know that? We know that some half-elves appear human, but is that because they lack elven abilities, or because they are unaware of them, having never been taught to use them? Personally, I think there is ample precedent for the inclusion of half-elves. There was at least one half-elf who had infravision but seemed otherwise human. There are also the people of Yavdlom who have slightly pointed ears and occasional mystical abilities. Both of these illustrate cases where half elves were not "all elf" or "all human", which means that GAZ5 was either in error, or applied only to the Alfheim elves. BD&D was a very simple rules system. Lots of things were represented by the "nearest approximation" rather than by specific rules. Foresters and Rakes are a good example. Some people also built "rangers" or "bards" by creative use of the rules (such as the Mad Hermit in module B2). We don't know whether there are Wizards or Sorcerers on Mystara, because the rules were incapable of making that distinction -- maybe all magic-users are sorcerers, and the rules just used the closest approximation. I would argue that the rule in GAZ5 was a compromise made for the sake of the rules, and which was later shown not to be completely true. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:41:52 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evil Genius wrote: > Hey, didja ever play Bunnies & Burrows? What about Rabbit Rampage (or, = "Wabbit Wampage")? Oh, yes, I've still got Wabbit's Wevenge lying about somewhere (watch = out, Wambo will get you!). Hm, better lay off; ever-so-slightly = off-topic... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 21:40:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael III Mysteria Organization: Prince-Regent of Mysteria Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Dragonlord series the main character is initially suggested to be half-elven (though he later discovers he's actually draconian), but for him to be thought that, there have to be half-elves in the world. Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: Harvey, Michael To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") > David S Leland wrote: > > We > > know that on Mystara there are two subspecies of humans, one of which > > is capable of learning arcane magic (and, in OD&D terms, becoming > > MUs) and one of which is not. > > Which human subraces are incapable of learning arcane magic? > > > We also know that there are no > > half-elves in the AD&D sense, but that the progeny of elves and > > humans are essentially elf or human based on the race of the parent > > of the same gender (see GAZ5). > > Do we know that? We know that some half-elves appear human, but is that > because they lack elven abilities, or because they are unaware of them, > having never been taught to use them? > > Personally, I think there is ample precedent for the inclusion of > half-elves. There was at least one half-elf who had infravision but seemed > otherwise human. There are also the people of Yavdlom who have slightly > pointed ears and occasional mystical abilities. Both of these illustrate > cases where half elves were not "all elf" or "all human", which means that > GAZ5 was either in error, or applied only to the Alfheim elves. > > BD&D was a very simple rules system. Lots of things were represented by the > "nearest approximation" rather than by specific rules. Foresters and Rakes > are a good example. Some people also built "rangers" or "bards" by creative > use of the rules (such as the Mad Hermit in module B2). We don't know > whether there are Wizards or Sorcerers on Mystara, because the rules were > incapable of making that distinction -- maybe all magic-users are sorcerers, > and the rules just used the closest approximation. I would argue that the > rule in GAZ5 was a compromise made for the sake of the rules, and which was > later shown not to be completely true. > > Mike > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun Wasn't there a savage, flame farting, pink bunny that led a rabbit revolution in the comic 'Floyd" in DRAGON some time back. > Hey, didja ever play Bunnies & Burrows? What about Rabbit Rampage (or, "Wabbit Wampage")? Oh, yes, I've still got Wabbit's Wevenge lying about somewhere (watch out, Wambo will get you!). Hm, better lay off; ever-so-slightly off-topic... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:50:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One would need to know some form of magic, which rules out most classes. Also, one would have to be a member of the Great School of Magic (or know someone in a craft, like Jaggar), which pretty effectively rules out Clerics/Druids (in Glantri, anyway), so I think we need not worry about anyone other than Wizards or Sorcerors populating the ranks of the Secret Crafts. The ultimate non-rule requirement is you have to be invited!!! There is a great example of a story-driven (not stat driven) requirement. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:25:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Barbarians Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I like using the dark ages "vikings" in both Norwold and the Northern Reaches. The northern vikings however have become somewhat civilized with technology and magic from Alphatia and their society has changed greatly as Alphatian introduces new cultures and forms of governments. Thus it is a hybrid. The fringe territories and more nordic, while the inner territories are more advanced with castle walls, siege craft, armor, etc. Interesting twist, what if through Alphatian magic, territories affilitated with Alphatian Empire are a bit warmer. Thus there is a great incentive to leave the old ways behind. --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 12:13:50 Harvey, Michael wrote: >> Mystara wrote: >>> Don't forget the barbarians in Norwold > >I've been thinking that I'm not going to go with dark ages "vikings" in >Norwold, but rather with medieval style knights in glittering armor. Think >of the nordic countries in 1400 instead of 900. I don't have the gaz anyway, >and vikings seem like an anachronism. > >Evil Genius wrote: >> Plus, I always thought that the "Heldannic Freeholds" as >> originally concieved was meant to by the Known World's >> version of Cimmeria > >Yeah, me too. But I kind of like the fascist Heldanners, so I think I'll >move the "Cimmerians" to Adri Varma or beyond. Besides it'll give the Master >of Hule a check to his ambitions. I was going to put them on Atruaghin but I >think for that region I've settled on just advancing the dusky-skinned >Atruaghin clans to a medieval level of technology, and make it into a region >dominated by local city-states. The theme of wandering into a local city >state, working your way up to general of the army, and then ousting the >local King has tons of RP potential and is very common in swords-and-sorcery >of the Conan variety, but there's no place on Mystara where it makes sense, >because everything is part of a large kingdom. > >Mike > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:27:00 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Barbarians Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally I use pre-WotI and as such the HK are not there. I have one module about that crown in Vestland which depicts Heldanners as Barbarians. It seems to work for now. --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:59:27 Evil Genius wrote: >Mystara wrote: >>> Don't forget the barbarians in Norwold << > >Plus, I always thought that the "Heldannic Freeholds" as originally concieved was meant to by the Known World's version of Cimmeria (you know, that place that one dude, whatsisname, oh yah - Conan, came from). Of course, now its HK Land, but that doesn't mean that the "native Heldanners" can't still have some Barbarian warriors among 'em. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:28:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Other Magic for D&D3E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where's Eric Noah's website? --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:55:57 Magister Mystaros wrote: >In a message dated 8/18/00 7:53:29 PM US Eastern Standard Time, >darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: > ><< Psionic - Use spells but through the power of the mind which are >regenerated. The spells levels would be power levels of a given ability. >Telepathy and ESP would be two such spells in this category. >> > >There will be a 3E Psionics book out in the first quarter of 2001... March, >IIRC. There's more info on Eric Noah's website. > >James A. Mishler >Magister Mystaros >Mystara Lives! >Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:05:54 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:02:16 Geoff Gander wrote: >BoboII wrote: > >>Yes, I would support barbarian characters in Mystara as coming from: > >>Easterhold > >Ah yes, the vicious tribes of egg-laying bunnies, who deal death with one >paw, and dispense sugar-rich chocolate with the other. Much feared by >civilised folk everywhere. :-) > >Sorry, couldn't resist it, but the Jennites of Esterhold get mighty upset >whenever they're confused with these furry barbarians. > LOL! Those would be "Vorpal Bunnies", wouldn't they? :) "There it is!" "You mean behind the rabbit?" "No. It *is* the rabbit!" "What? You ... I nearly wet my pants, I was so scared!" "Shut up, Sir Robin... and go and change your armor!" ;) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:16:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Other Magic for D&D3E Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 15:28:01 Darth Darknerd wrote: >Where's Eric Noah's website? > > http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/ - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 18:36:00 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau Yarbrough meandered fecklessly... > >I haven't read the Dragon article on Prestige Classes yet, but > >my opinion is that in some cases "Class" is a viable restriction. > >I do agree it should be avoided when possible, but some Prestige > >Classes may very well call for it. > > >I am not saying this is a cut and dried case of an example of > >such a situation. Just that the article cannot cover all situations. > > Like what? I've thought about this a lot, myself, and I can't think of > any. Got a prestige class that's typically for priests? Set a high divine > spell casting level. Some exceptional paladins, druids and rangers might > rarely qualify for it. The same goes with wizard-aimed prestige classes and > sorcerers and bards. Combat-oriented classes could have a minimum attack > bonus required. I do agree that when it comes to combat-related prestige classes there is no reason to go with class-specific requirements. I also agree that in the majority of cases more open requirements are the way to go. > I don't think there's anything gained by specifying that a given prestige > class is only open to a single class. One can use generic restrictions that > almost guarantee it, but why definitively close the door on other > possibilities? Because sometimes a person might _want_ to definitively close the door on other possibilities. Sometimes a prestige class might represent a step in a specific class ability. Sometimes the chance of being a given prestige class might be based on the choice of a given individual or group, and they may have requirements that can only be meet through being a certain class. Two examples. First, a generic example. Vorcha is the god of fire and flame. He is a chaotic neutral god. He within his ranks an order known as the Conflagrants, which are priests who have proven themselves dedicated to Vorcha and his precepts through endless use of divine magic to create flaming destruction. The requirements of being a Conflagrant is a minimum level in cleric (of Vorcha) and a devotion to flaming destruction. This is just an example of using the prestige class concept to create high priests. In some cases it makes sense to allow paladins and rangers to potentially qualify for a god's high priest, but in others, it doesn't. Vorcha allowing anyone who has a certain number of levels as a divine spellcaster doesn't make sense, since neither rangers or paladins will be worshiping this kind of god. Example two, specific to a world concept I am tossing around. Wizard magic is based on runes and formulas using those runes. This is what a wizard's spellbook holds (runic formulas), and when using somatic and verbal components they are either speaking the runic names or tracing them in the air. Given the proper training and knowledge it is possible to speak and trace runes on the fly, assembling them into the proper runic formulas as they are cast. This isn't just casting a spell as a sorcerer does, but casting without spells themselves. Wizards determine their desired effects as the spell is cast. Similar to how magic works in games such as Ars Magica or Mage. This knowledge is rooted in two things. First is an extensive knowledge of runes and formulas, which is covered under the Spellcraft skill. The second, though, is extensive, first-hand experience with using runes to cast spells, something neither bards or sorcerers have. A wizard eats and breathes runes in order to master magic. Bards and sorcerers do not. They might come to understand what they mean (via the Spellcraft skill), but they don't have the experience in using them to cast spells. Thus, the prestige class that would be used to represent this kind of magic would require levels of wizard. No other class has the experience and knowledge required to master freeform runic magic. The second example is a very specifc case, and obviously not the kind of thing most prestige classes are going to be like. The first example, though, seems like it could be a fairly common occurance in a setting that uses prestige classes to represent more specialized priests or high priests. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:56:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Bunnies of Brun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The old _Swordbearer_ game has a race called the "Bunrab". Here are their stats relative to humans: Movement Rate: As Human (despite being noticeably smaller) Mass: 2d6 (vice 1d10 + 1d6 +2 for Human) Strength: Mass +1 (vice Mass for Human) Agility: +3 over Human Age: (2d6 x 2) + 6 (vice [2d10 x 2] + 10 for Humans). Average life expectancy is 40 (vice 60 for Humans). Experience: Same range as Human, but scaled for shorter life expectancy. Social Status: Same range as Human, but scaled for shorter life expectancy. Natural Weapons: Kick (vice Fist for Human) Magic: Ability comparable to Humans, but spirit nodes ("soul") are contained in ears (vice heart for Humans). Bunrabs are one of the few races in the _Swordbearer_ game whose spirit nodes are contained in body parts that can be removed without causing immediate death. Special advantages: Specialized in stealth. Special disadvantages: Cowardly. Does this inspire anyone to come up with a D&D/AD&D conversion? Other _Swordbearer_ races with no obvious D&D counterpart include the following: Eaglons (aerial humanoids), Fauns/Satyrs (with two sexes!), Gargoyles (as living beings, not constructs), Griffins (with almost Human intelligence), Hellborns (terrifying humanoids with exoskeletons), and Unicorns (with superior intelligence and magic talent). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 02:25:28 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-22 3:17:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: > Personally, I think there is ample precedent for the inclusion of > half-elves. There was at least one half-elf who had infravision but seemed > otherwise human. There are also the people of Yavdlom who have slightly > pointed ears and occasional mystical abilities. Both of these illustrate > cases where half elves were not "all elf" or "all human", which means that > GAZ5 was either in error, or applied only to the Alfheim elves. For the 3E rules I think I have a theory that explains all of the above. From the available sources (including the genetic theory expounded in detail in Gaz 5) I would conclude that there are no male half-elves except for the specially created true-breeding race that lives on the Savage Coast. Female half-elves would exist but would not breed true (and in addition would be regarded socially as "Humans"). Since 3E elves have nightvision but not darkvision (the 3E equivalent of infravision), the Ierendian Gen (the half-elf mentioned earlier) would seem to be hard to explain. However, I would suggest that her father is physically (but not culturally) a Shadow Elf with true darkvision, which he passed on to his daughter. Of course, since both of them have lived their entire lives on the surface, sunlight affects them about as much as it affects kobolds and goblins (as opposed to its more severe effects on normal Shadow Elves and other Underdark races). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:20:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/22/00 4:46:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > I like your idea > that some Foresters could start out unable to learn elven magic, but > after a few levels of fighter gain enough of a connection to nature > and the elven spirit that they can then do it. =20 I was thinking that non-sorcerer Foresters would gradually gain=20 more and more of an affinity for the forest environment until finally, they=20 learn to sense things about it using minor divination-like abilities. Their= =20 early abilities could be similar to a 2E ranger's=E2=80=94improved tracking,= =20 empathy with animals, stealthy forest movement, and hiding in forest. =20 All these skills would improve as the character gains higher levels. =20 Upon gaining the highest levels, the forester finally gains the ability to=20 sense minor info about the forest environment. A GM might even allow=20 the player to choose which of these 'minor divination abilities', her/his=20 character learns. =20 =20 > We also know that there are no > half-elves in the AD&D sense, but that the progeny of elves and > humans are essentially elf or human based on the race of the parent > of the same gender (see GAZ5). =20 As for half-elves, I like them and so I use them IMC. As always, what each=20 GM uses in her/his own campaign is that GM's choice, but there is some=20 canon material that seems to support the idea of half-elves. Two examples=20 come to mind=E2=80=94the people of the Yavdlom divinarchy (human & elf mix)=20= and=20 the half-ogre, half-elf people of southeastern Davania (the ones visited by=20 the Princess Ark). =20 > This means that even if you have some elven blood you might not be > able to become a Forester because your human lineage has some (or too > much) "wizard blood" in it. This would throw sages for a loop since If humans with "wizard blood" in their heritage cannot use sorcery, it would= =20 seem to follow that elves with "wizard blood" cannot either. If you are=20 intent=20 on having aptitude in sorcery and arcane magic be determined by two separate= =20 biological traits, then an alternative reason why elves don't tend to be=20 wizards=20 could be that it is extremely rare for them to have the "wizard blood" trait= . > Also note that this rule would not prevent elves from learning > wizardly magic. Elven sorcerous magic is precluded by "wizardly > blood" but the reverse is not true, i.e. wizardly magic is not > precluded by elven blood. =20 If you do allow elves to become sorcerer/wizards, just prepare yourself=20 for any min-maxing, power-loving players in your campaign to favor elves ove= r=20 humans (because they can later become mages too)! But I suppose, due to=20 the way 3E handles level advancement, even multi-classes like the fighter/ sorcerer/mage are well-balanced with single-class characters of similar XPs/ levels.=20 > I'd like there to be > something innate that gives certain special humans the possibility of > wielding elven (sorcerous) magic, and that this quality be necessary, > though not sufficient, for becoming a Forester who wields magic. I=20 > don't think the details of that quality need be known with certainty > by anyone on Mystara. So far as everyone knows, it may just work > with some humans and not others. But there can be plenty of theories,=20 > preeminent among which would be that humans who can learn > elven magic have at least some elven blood in them.=20 The idea of linking sorcery to elven blood is a great one. It will make elve= s=20 still more unique and will enhance their mystique in any campaign where=20 it is used. But there is one question you may still want to answer (or may=20 not). That is: where does that innate magical ability come from? Is it=20 some- thing the immortals gave only to elves, is it a function of Mystara's magica= l=20 "essence" interacting with its sentient inhabitants, or is it something that= =20 elves have discovered due to their closeness to nature? In my D&D games, I know I wanted an underlying continuity among all types of magic, so I=20 came up with a "universal essence" that is the true source of all magic. I=20 liked having a theory to explain why magic behaved the way it does (differ- ently for different peoples). A GM does not HAVE to create a background=20 theory, but it may be helpful to at least consider the reasons why a certain= =20 kind of magic works the way it does. This way, when your players try to=20 do something unexpected, you can easily extrapolate what will occur. =20 Hope the post wasn't too long, =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:28:59 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Stefan Karameikos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Guess who's been revamped under 3E rules by Wizards? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:36:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 2:35:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM=20 writes: > For the 3E rules I think I have a theory that explains all of the above. =20 > From the available sources (including the genetic theory expounded in=20 > detail in Gaz 5) I would conclude that there are no male half-elves=20 Thanks for the theory/explanation, it works well! But what is this=20 "specially-created, true-breeding race that lives on the Savage Coast"? =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 02:46:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Magic and Mystara (was Elven Sorcery) In-Reply-To: <2f.9a2209c.26d4d52f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 12:20 AM 8/23/00, SR Johnson wrote: But there is one question you may still want to answer (or may not). That is: where does that innate magical ability come from? Is it something the immortals gave only to elves, is it a function of Mystara's magical "essence" interacting with its sentient inhabitants, or is it something that elves have discovered due to their closeness to nature? In my D&D games,I know I wanted an underlying continuity among all types of magic, so I came up with a "universal essence" that is the true source of all magic. I liked having a theory to explain why magic behaved the way it does (differ- ently for different peoples). A GM does not HAVE to create a background theory, but it may be helpful to at least consider the reasons why a certain kind of magic works the way it does. This way, when your players try to do something unexpected, you can easily extrapolate what will occur. Well, I remember that in WotI it was suggested that elves were among the "magical creatures" who sickened during the Week Without Magic, and that was influential on my considering the idea that elves use magic differently because they are somehow inherently magical. Such an idea is compatible with the idea of Mystara's magical essence and elves' closeness to nature. In other words, perhaps elves have their natural talent for magic without scholarship because they have a bit of Mystara's magical essence with them, which is connected to nature, i.e. Mystara itself. This gives them a certain power, but also makes them potentially vulnerable--since the drain of the Nucleus of the Spheres drains magic on Mystara, and elves have this inherent connection with Mystara's magic, the artifact also drains them. If we work with the idea that all magic comes from the same fundamental source, then wizards could tap into the same source but have to do it via a more complicated, artificial means (wizardry). Of course the problem with this is that wizards are capable of music magic just fine on other planets and other planes. For that matter, I've never thought that elves should have a problem either. Then again, maybe that connection with Mystara is necessary, but doesn't need to be physical and constant. Perhaps you can be anywhere and so long as Mystara's magic is alive, your magic is alive. Or perhaps a protracted absence from Mystara would create a problem for wizards and sorcerors. Druidic magic is easy to integrate likewise, but I'm not sure how clerical magic would fit in, since that seems to depend on the Immortals and not Mystara or any other particular place. What were you thinking about the connection between arcane and divine magic since divine magic comes from Immortals, or do you use an alternative model of divine magic? ./ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \. < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > .\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /. "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:01:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 12:48:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, stanles@ALPHALINK.COM.AU writes: << Guess who's been revamped under 3E rules by Wizards? >> Very interesting. Just finished looking over his 3e stats and I noticed this little note at the bottom: " The official version of this character in future printed products may vary from what is presented here. " Now is this just a subtle hint that we may see more 3e Mystara characters and info in various products, or does this simply refer to the out-of-print Mystara stuff they are going to make avaliable through their website eventually...? Just curious, -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:17:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeremy Morris Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos In-Reply-To: <3e.9bd26.26d51737@aol.com>; from Deldain@AOL.COM on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:01:59AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lord Deldain wrote on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:01:59AM EDT > Very interesting. Just finished looking over his 3e stats and I noticed this > little note at the bottom: > > " The official version of this character in future printed products may vary > from what is presented here. " > > Now is this just a subtle hint that we may see more 3e Mystara characters and > info in various products, or does this simply refer to the out-of-print > Mystara stuff they are going to make avaliable through their website > eventually...? > > Just curious, Doubtful. Its the same disclaimer used at the bottom of Drizzt Do'Urden and Linsha Majere's stats from the Wizards website. Since the same person did all of these conversions, I would guess that he was asked to put it into the first two (since they are part of worlds that Wizards seems to be interested in publishing soon) and he just kept it in all of the conversions he did. Jeremy -- Jeremy Morris (morris@mcs.kent.edu) Math & Computer Science Dept. - Kent State University ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:47:24 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos In-Reply-To: <20000823081700.E19855@mcs.kent.edu>; from morris@MCS.KENT.EDU on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:17:00AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:17:00AM -0400, Jeremy Morris wrote: > > Doubtful. Its the same disclaimer used at the bottom of Drizzt Do'Urden and > Linsha Majere's stats from the Wizards website. Since the same person did > all of these conversions, I would guess that he was asked to put it into the > first two (since they are part of worlds that Wizards seems to be interested > in publishing soon) and he just kept it in all of the conversions he did. URL please? -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were plowing a field, what you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024 http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel | processing ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:04:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeremy Morris Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos In-Reply-To: <20000823204724.A285021@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au>; from knight@UCC.GU.UWA.EDU.AU on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:47:24PM +0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Glenn Butcher wrote on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:47:24AM EDT > On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 08:17:00AM -0400, Jeremy Morris wrote: > > > > Doubtful. Its the same disclaimer used at the bottom of Drizzt Do'Urden and > > Linsha Majere's stats from the Wizards website. Since the same person did > > all of these conversions, I would guess that he was asked to put it into the > > first two (since they are part of worlds that Wizards seems to be interested > > in publishing soon) and he just kept it in all of the conversions he did. > > URL please? Sorry, I should have included these in my response anyway: Drizzt: http://www.wizards.com/ForgottenRealms/FR_3E_Drizzt.asp Linsha: http://www.wizards.com/dragonlance/DL_3E_Linsha.asp They are both right off the main page for their Campaign Worlds, so if you go to the Dungeons and Dragons page at wizards.com and click on either the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance Campaign World selections at the top of the page, you should see their links on the right hand side. Jeremy -- Jeremy Morris (morris@mcs.kent.edu) Math & Computer Science Dept. - Kent State University ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:41:15 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: MMB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Alan Shutko wrote: "I stopped reading it because it's such junk!" Well... I have to say that this isn't that respectful of you, Alan: Shawm Stanley has been writing messages there, also very recently. I am sure you didn't mean to offend anybody, you just didn't chose the best words to express your frustration for not reading very many things of your interest there lately: correct? However, I agree that it'd be better to centralize information (Mystara-L, Mystara3E, MMB) on one single list, also to achieve better visibility in front of WotC. My 2 Liras.. Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos I notice that Shawn just uploaded it onto his site, too. :) Geoff standard answer to all questions - "Check Shawn's site." -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:47:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Easterholdian Bunrab] ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: GANDERG@tc.gc.ca ("Gander, Geoff") To: au998@freenet.carleton.ca ("'Me'") Subject: Easterholdian Bunrab Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:42:14 -0400 How about this for a Mystaran bunrab? Comments welcome, as always. Geoff *************** Easterholdian Bunrab Armour Class: 6 Hit Dice: 2 (M) Move: 120' (40') Attacks: By weapon or kick Damage: By weapon +1 or 1d8 No. Appearing: 1d8 (3d10) Save As: F2 Morale: 6 Treasure Type: U (B) Intelligence: 12 Alignment: Neutral XP Value: 10 Bunrabs are a race of humanoids who greatly resemble human-sized, bipedal rabbits. On average, they stand 5 to 5 � feet in height, and have an athletic leanness to them. Highly adaptable creatures, bunrabs are capable of making almost any environment their home - an essential survival skill, given that their high fecundity almost ensures the colonisation of new territories due to population pressures. Being fairly intelligent, most bunrabs do not hunt and gather their food; rather, they tend to live in small villages and towns, farming the surrounding lands extensively to provide them with the crispy lettuce and carrots they love so much. In combat, bunrabs can be very fierce, indeed. Due to their inherent strength and toughness, and the fact that they have hands with opposable thumbs (and not paws), they are capable of using any weapon available to them, and of inflicting considerable damage. Even when unarmed, an angered bunrab can be formidable, as their large feet can bludgeon opponents to senselessness with a well-placed kick. Due to their high agility and natural stealth, bunrabs are blessed with a higher armour class, though in battle some do wear breastplates with arms and leg greaves (lowering their AC to 5), and occasionally they use shields, as well. Despite their skill in battle, however, bunrabs are an inherently skittish, even cowardly, race. When confronted with a foe, a bunrab must make a Morale check to determine if it is even willing to fight, and must make another every time it is wounded. The only time such requirements do not apply is when a battle is taken to a bunrab's own home; there, they will often fight to the death (Morale rises to 9). Being very clannish creatures, bunrabs tend to keep to themselves, and do not actively seek out contact with other races. For every 15 bunrabs, there is a group leader, who has 5 Hit Dice. -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:56:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: Federico Kaftal's message of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:41:15 CEST" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Federico Kaftal writes: > Alan Shutko wrote: > "I stopped reading it because it's such junk!" > Well... I have to say that this isn't that respectful of you, Alan Sorry for being imprecise. I did not mean to insult the content there at all, which I've always found interesting. But the message board software has had way too many problems for me lately and I just grew sick of it. I used the newsreader interface, and the server was down more often than not. And the web interface just drives me batty. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 80 days, 1 hours, 41 minutes, 3 seconds till we run away. Money is the root of all wealth. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:17:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20000823172842.0094f124@alphalink.com.au> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:28 8/23/00 +1000, shawn stanley wrote: >Guess who's been revamped under 3E rules by Wizards? Where? Where? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:31:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos Looks cool, but I'm going to have to tell the FASA folks that they're leaving too much time on Stephen Kenson's hands, when he should be writing Talon books or Shadowrun accessories. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:51:05 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a commoner. Do I remember well? Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:53:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: MMB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Their whole system is incredibly slow, even with a T1 line, etc, it comes ccrrrrreeeeeeeppppping out, and it is also hard to follow the thread of responses. Content = A Format = 'see me' (in red pen, no less) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:56:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, I haven't yet figured out how I want to tackle converting the "Five Shires" material for my own campaign to 3E, but there's several thoughts that are percolating up this morning. 1) I'm not going to be able to convert everything until I've got the new DMG, and maybe not until the MM comes out. 2) Damn the torpedoes, 3E halflings may tend toward Neutral, but the hin of the Shires will still tend toward Lawful Good. (Expressed in my campaign as "it's rare to find a hin who isn't lawful, good, or both" which has made for a small spread of alignments among player characters.) 3) I really want to get a look at the paladin prestige class. The more I think about it, the more fun it sounds like to have a secret/low-key order of non-knight hin paladins serving as the military arm of the hin masters. I'm still thinking I'd like to not have anyone start off as a paladin, although I might well change my mind. 4) Denial is going to be a new feat. IMO, it actually works better this way than as an automatic hin superpower. 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involve some real compression ... Among my thoughts on that last, the requirements I'm thinking of for the hin master prestige class at this point: 1) Characters must be hin (duh), must be resident in the Five Shires and must either be invited in or petition to join the group. No one can do it on their own. 2) Characters must be lawful and/or good and cannot be chaotic or evil. 3) Characters must have learned the Denial feat. 4) Characters must have Wilderness Lore to some to-be-determined level. 4) Characters must have a base attack bonus of +6 (the same as an eighth level Rogue, as it's my assumption that many hin PCs will at least multiclass in it, and I believe keeping Rogue as the preferred class for the hin makes sense, since they're NOT thieves now) 5) Hit dice, spell progression, attack and saving throw progressions should be as druids. 6) Among the class abilities, feats and skills would be Improved Denial, Darkvision (a class ability that increases with level, although a straight 10' progression/level won't even come close to replicating what the original version could do, so I probably want to have it go in higher increments and have an ability score bonus hooked to it), find drinkable water, turn undead, and spell use. Class skills would include being taught Lalor. 7) The spell charts are pretty good as-is, although I need to do a line-by-line comparison to see if the spells line up with their modern versions and work on converting the few others. 8) "They may use all weapons, armor and items allowed to non-Master halflings." Uh, OK. For those of us who've been with AD&D for such a long time that we've forgotten what our Basic set said, what does this mean? Fighter weapons? Rogue weapons? I hope to have a full conversion done soon. Of course, I've got two smallish articles to write for "Dragon" first (on spec) ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:24:39 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000823075614.007bc440@10.1.1.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involve some > real compression ... Yep. As will the spell charts. I'd reccomend restructuring it. Get rid of all non-hin-specific spells, and fix up the spell levels. That makes the Master a lot more specialized rather than just a "Hin Wizard" as it seemed to be in the gaz. As for your class restrictions - yeow! Masters will be a lot rarer with all those points! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:28:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote: > One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of > Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in > the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a > commoner. > Do I remember well? Yes, but this was far far before the word "sorcerer" came to mean a character class with innate magic feats. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:27:10 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: MMB Mystara wrote: > Their whole system is incredibly slow, even with a T1 line, etc, it comes ccrrrrreeeeeeeppppping out, and it is also hard to follow the thread of responses. Content = A Format = 'see me' (in red pen, no less) << Underlined three times for emphasis. There's better programing in many freeware MB systems. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:40:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:51 8/23/00 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote: >One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of >Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in >the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a >commoner. >Do I remember well? Hence, Craft membership should be open to arcane spellcasters. There WILL be exceptions to any simple category of who should be able to join a group. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:47:37 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: Evil Genius's message of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:27:10 -0400" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Evil Genius writes: > There's better programing in many freeware MB systems. Maybe they're just running the MB on a discarded Vic-20 hooked to the net through the joystick port. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 79 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, 54 seconds till we run away. Laugh, and the world ignores you. Crying doesn't help either. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:12:38 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: MMB Alan wrote: >Maybe they're just running the MB on a discarded Vic-20 hooked to the >net through the joystick port. Naaaahhh. I think it's one of those old pong games (you know, the ones with the fake wood finish), linked to an old cassette drive, which is in turn hooked up to the net via an unravelled coathanger plugged into an electrical outlet. :) In all seriousness, is it just me, or does the MMB actually *devolve* every time WotC announces an "improvement". I seem to recall it actually worked much better around 2 years ago. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:00:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: ; from ats@ACM.ORG on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 09:56:05AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 09:56:05AM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: > > I used the newsreader interface, and the server was down > more often than not. And the web interface just drives me batty. Quick Survey: Do people prefer the web interface or the news interface? Or use both? gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:57:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:24 08/23/2000 -0400, SteelAngel wrote: >I'd reccomend restructuring it. Get rid of all non-hin-specific spells, >and fix up the spell levels. That makes the Master a lot more specialized >rather than just a "Hin Wizard" as it seemed to be in the gaz. I always read them as being "Hin Druid," but you raise a good point. >As for your class restrictions - yeow! Masters will be a lot rarer with >all those points! I don't think they should be all that common. And some of the points are by neccesity: All prestige classes should only be available once people hit sixth level. And if hin masters get Improved Denial (which is one of the base class abilities), they really ought to have "shown allegience" to the Shires by having chosen the basic Denial feat ahead of time. And as the class is allegedly based on the extinct elves' teachings, having Wilderness Lore be a required skill seems a pretty appropriate requirement. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:25:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: <20000823180059.N5357@esatclear.ie> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:00 08/23/2000 +0100, Gordon McCormick wrote: >On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 09:56:05AM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: >> >> I used the newsreader interface, and the server was down >> more often than not. And the web interface just drives me batty. > >Quick Survey: Do people prefer the web interface or the news >interface? Or use both? Web, ala WebBBS or WWWBoard. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:44:15 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: MMB Mystara wrote: > Quick Survey: Do people prefer the web interface or the news interface? Or use both? < The newsgroup interface is to be prefered by a wide margin. That's actually usable without extreme frustration. The web interface, for a night out on the town, likes to blow goats. It really sucks. gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:07:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 1:21:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > And if hin masters get Improved Denial (which is one of the > base class abilities), they really ought to have "shown allegience" to th= e > Shires by having chosen the basic Denial feat ahead of time.=20 Just last night, I was reading through Gaz 8 about Hin denial. Since it is=20 something that only high level Hin gain (in Od&d, 5th IS high when 8th is=20 the highest!), from a storytelling standpoint, what is going on? Do Hin=20 spontaneously gain this ability at a certain age or is it the mysterious=20 culmination of years of experience? I favor a slightly more mundane=20 explanation. I think Hin are taught how to deny magic by Hin who=20 have mastered it. I think it was a semi-magical skill that was first taught= =20 to Hin by the Gentle Folk (long-gone elves). In subsequent ages, it has=20 been passed down and refined into its current form. It would also make=20 sense (IMO) for Sheriffs and Krondar to have access to improved denial=20 ability (Hin masters would teach them). Although, not all Sheriffs and=20 Krondar would choose to improve their denial skill (or some may not=20 have a strong enough connection to the land to improve it). =20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:09:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: MMB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gordon McCormick wrote: > On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 09:56:05AM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: > > > > I used the newsreader interface, and the server was down > > more often than not. And the web interface just drives me batty. > > Quick Survey: Do people prefer the web interface or the news > interface? Or use both? News only. I will almost never use a web interface to a discussion board; they are infuriatingly slow and cumbersome, without exception, and that's when they work at all. Occasionally I'll read a few messages on a web interface but usually my patience runs out after a few minutes, and I'll almost never bother posting to one. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:14:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?utf-8?B?SGFydmV5LCBNaWNoYWVs?= Subject: =?utf-8?B?UkU6IFtNWVNUQVJBXSBIaW4gRGVuaWFsIEFiaWxpdHkgKHdhcyBF?= =?utf-8?B?YXJseSB0aG91Z2h0cyBvbiBjb252ZXJ0aW5nICJUaGUgRml2ZSBTaGlyZXMi?= =?utf-8?B?KQ==?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" So, what exactly is denial, for those of us who don't have the gaz (and may never find a copy)? How does it work? Do all halflings get it at 5th level? Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:23:22 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In my game all Hin have this power, but they can only exercise it on "consecrated" ground. This includes the Five Shires and any clan holding that has a Crucible of Black Flame. In fact this is an offshoot of the mastery and affinity of the Hin to Black Flame. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SR Johnson" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:07 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") In a message dated 8/23/00 1:21:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > And if hin masters get Improved Denial (which is one of the > base class abilities), they really ought to have "shown allegience" to the > Shires by having chosen the basic Denial feat ahead of time. Just last night, I was reading through Gaz 8 about Hin denial. Since it is something that only high level Hin gain (in Od&d, 5th IS high when 8th is the highest!), from a storytelling standpoint, what is going on? Do Hin spontaneously gain this ability at a certain age or is it the mysterious culmination of years of experience? I favor a slightly more mundane explanation. I think Hin are taught how to deny magic by Hin who have mastered it. I think it was a semi-magical skill that was first taught to Hin by the Gentle Folk (long-gone elves). In subsequent ages, it has been passed down and refined into its current form. It would also make sense (IMO) for Sheriffs and Krondar to have access to improved denial ability (Hin masters would teach them). Although, not all Sheriffs and Krondar would choose to improve their denial skill (or some may not have a strong enough connection to the land to improve it). —Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:26:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Beau wrote: > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is > going to involve some real compression ... I don't know anything about Hin Masters, but since 3e removes the restriction on levels beyond 8th, wouldn't it be reasonable to just let halflings advance to 20th level as fighters, and use the Hin Master only for the special abilities? Or, if the special abilities include a complete range of druid-like spells, maybe a Hin Master is just a Fighter/Druid with some special feats? Also, anyone know why prestige classes are restricted to 10 levels? It sounds arbitary and restrictive, like level limits in the older systems. Can there be "telescoping" prestige classes, so maybe after 10 levels as a "Hin Protector" you become eligible to become a "Hin Master"? > 8) "They may use all weapons, armor and items allowed > to non-Master halflings." Uh, OK. For those of us who've > been with AD&D for such a long time that we've forgotten > what our Basic set said, what does this mean? > Fighter weapons? Rogue weapons? IIRC, according to the Basic Set, halflings can use any weapon (just as fighters can). The Rules Cyclopedia restricted this so they could only use small (and medium?) weapons. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:42:33 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 11:08:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20= =20 (the Hin/Five Shires A-thori-TAY) writes: > 3) I really want to get a look at the paladin prestige class. The=20 > more I think about it, the more fun it sounds like to have a secret/low- > key order of non-knight hin paladins serving as the military arm of the=20 > hin masters. Wonderful idea! I'd like to suggest you consider giving them certain=20 Shires-specific abilities (perhaps based on Blackflame). I've always=20 thought groups like the Hin Masters and the Foresters of Vyalia would go=20 keeping "an eye on" regional affairs and work to maintain (or restore) the=20 "balance of things" (peace). =20 =20 > 4) Denial is going to be a new feat. IMO, it actually works bette= r=20 > this way than as an automatic hin superpower. Right on! Did you see my earlier post about denial? > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involve=20 > some real compression ... What's your reason for this? I thought under 3E, it made sense to=20 convert Od&d levels one for one. > I hope to have a full conversion done soon. Of course, I've got two > smallish articles to write for "Dragon" first (on spec) ... Hey, let the MML know if they get published (I sort of assumed they=20 are Mystara articles)=E2=80=94I'm sure I won't be the only one who wants to=20= pick=20 up that issue!=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:39:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") In-Reply-To: <97.9d1d38a.26d56cc8@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:07 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >Just last night, I was reading through Gaz 8 about Hin denial. Since it is >something that only high level Hin gain (in Od&d, 5th IS high when 8th is >the highest!), from a storytelling standpoint, what is going on? Do Hin >spontaneously gain this ability at a certain age or is it the mysterious >culmination of years of experience? I favor a slightly more mundane >explanation. I think Hin are taught how to deny magic by Hin who >have mastered it. I think it was a semi-magical skill that was first taught >to Hin by the Gentle Folk (long-gone elves). In subsequent ages, it has >been passed down and refined into its current form. It would also make >sense (IMO) for Sheriffs and Krondar to have access to improved denial >ability (Hin masters would teach them). Although, not all Sheriffs and >Krondar would choose to improve their denial skill (or some may not >have a strong enough connection to the land to improve it). I actually think Improved Denial should be kept for the Masters -- without it, they're just hin spellcasters, and as I expect to see plenty of new classes with halfling player characters, that's not necessarily going to be a unique category on its own. And I agree that Denial is almost certainly one of the things the Gentle Folk taught the earliest hin, although I think it's part of their (inherited) connection with the land. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:40:30 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC5FD@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:09 08/23/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: >News only. I will almost never use a web interface to a discussion board; >they are infuriatingly slow and cumbersome, without exception, and that's >when they work at all. Occasionally I'll read a few messages on a web >interface but usually my patience runs out after a few minutes, and I'll >almost never bother posting to one. Other than the admittedly horrible WotC Web boards, can I ask which you're referring to as slow and unreliable? I've never had a problem with either Ultimate BBS, or WebBBS (f'r instance, mine at http://www.LBY3.com/comic/forum/ runs like a top). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:44:36 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") In-Reply-To: <002f01c00d2f$38b0aaa0$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:23 08/23/2000 -0500, George wrote: >In my game all Hin have this power, but they can only exercise it on >"consecrated" ground. This includes the Five Shires and any clan holding >that has a Crucible of Black Flame. In fact this is an offshoot of the >mastery >and affinity of the Hin to Black Flame. Do you mean Denial or the Master-level Improved Denial? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:49:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involv= e=20 > some > > real compression ... > =20 > Yep. As will the spell charts. > =20 Is this required because of the nature of a prestige class (becoming=20 available at level 6 right)? If so, why not consider just beginning Hin=20 masters' level progression from 6 and letting it continue up to 36 or=20 even 40?! [Just because the 3e High Level Book is not yet available=20 does not mean we Mystaraphiles couldn't get an early start. After all,=20 does Mystara deserve the high levels it was designed for?!] Also,=20 you would not have to worry about "compression" levels quite so much. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:52:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC5FF@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:26 08/23/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: >I don't know anything about Hin Masters, but since 3e removes the >restriction on levels beyond 8th, wouldn't it be reasonable to just let >halflings advance to 20th level as fighters, and use the Hin Master only for >the special abilities? Or, if the special abilities include a complete range >of druid-like spells, maybe a Hin Master is just a Fighter/Druid with some >special feats? Well, they also get infravision (which should probably be nightvision, since it's them picking up an elvish trait) and an improved denial ability, as well as one or two MINOR druid powers and the ability to cast unique spells, including Blackflame related stuff. >IIRC, according to the Basic Set, halflings can use any weapon (just as >fighters can). The Rules Cyclopedia restricted this so they could only use >small (and medium?) weapons. Huh. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:56:00 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <62.6926f66.26d57519@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 14:42 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >> 3) I really want to get a look at the paladin prestige class. The= =20 >> more I think about it, the more fun it sounds like to have a secret/low- >> key order of non-knight hin paladins serving as the military arm of the= =20 >> hin masters. > > Wonderful idea! I'd like to suggest you consider giving them certain= =20 >Shires-specific abilities (perhaps based on Blackflame). I've always=20 >thought groups like the Hin Masters and the Foresters of Vyalia would go=20 >keeping "an eye on" regional affairs and work to maintain (or restore) the= =20 >"balance of things" (peace). =20 Whew. Either I'm not nuts, or I have company then! =20 >> 4) Denial is going to be a new feat. IMO, it actually works better=20 >> this way than as an automatic hin superpower. > > Right on! Did you see my earlier post about denial? I did. I think I replied, but my e-mail system has been ... odd today. >> 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involve= =20 >> some real compression ... > > What's your reason for this? I thought under 3E, it made sense to=20 >convert Od&d levels one for one. Because prestige classes are limited to 10 levels in 3E. And, frankly, 36 levels of Hin Master was always pretty unnecessary. Most of that is skill ranks or combat ranks or whatever you call them, along with increasingly ridiculous infravision ranges and lots of spells. The spell table could be trimmed -- they do NOT need seven levels of spells, IMO -- and it could all compress quite nicely. >> I hope to have a full conversion done soon. Of course, I've got= two >> smallish articles to write for "Dragon" first (on spec) ... > > Hey, let the MML know if they get published (I sort of assumed they=20 >are Mystara articles)=E2=80=94I'm sure I won't be the only one who wants to= pick=20 >up that issue!=20 Unfortunately, they're not Mystara-related. One is about pegging NPC level advancement to the PCs' at different rates based on the roles the NPCs play in the campaign, and the other is about when immunity to normal weapons/damage resistance really MEANS and how to best use it in play to scare the crap out of your players ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:04:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 2:46:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: > Also, anyone know why prestige classes are restricted to 10 levels? It > sounds arbitary and restrictive, like level limits in the older systems.=20 Can > there be "telescoping" prestige classes, so maybe after 10 levels as a "H= in > Protector" you become eligible to become a "Hin Master"? So this is the reason Beau spoke of compressing 36 levels down to 10. =20 The rule seems oddly restrictive for a game system meant to stress=20 flexibility. Maybe Hin Masters would be better represented as their own=20 class?! Third Edition seems well suited to the creation of new specialty=20 classes that would serve the same purpose that kits once did. [I also=20 like the prospect of recreating the highly specialized subclasses from 1st=20 Edit. days=E2=80=94back when there was a subclass for every character concep= t=20 under the sun.] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:26:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: Beau's message of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:40:30 -0700" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Beau writes: > Other than the admittedly horrible WotC Web boards, can I > ask which you're referring to as slow and unreliable? I've never had > a problem with either Ultimate BBS, or WebBBS (f'r instance, mine at > http://www.LBY3.com/comic/forum/ runs like a top). They all are, if not unreliable at least slow. And the UI sucks. Having to bounce packets across the net for every single action is inherently a lot slower than working completely locally in offline mode in a newsreader, and downloading them to the offline reader is much faster because you can stream all articles, rather than doing transaction after transaction and incurring all the latency therein. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 79 days, 20 hours, 11 minutes, 21 seconds till we run away. Veni, Vidi, Velveeta (I came, I saw, I cheesed it) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:12:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <94.8a3ab41.26d576d4@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:49 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >Is this required because of the nature of a prestige class (becoming >available at level 6 right)? It's independent of that. In 3E, all prestige classes have 10 levels. If so, why not consider just beginning Hin >masters' level progression from 6 and letting it continue up to 36 or >even 40?! [Just because the 3e High Level Book is not yet available >does not mean we Mystaraphiles couldn't get an early start. After all, >does Mystara deserve the high levels it was designed for?!] Also, >you would not have to worry about "compression" levels quite so much. I'm not sure anything is lost by compressing. If anything, it gives us the opportunity to squeeze out what seems pretty clearly to be filler. ("Ooh, I can see 10 more feet with infravision and picked up another third level spell?") BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:38:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Any suggestions for Rune Magic. I would like to create a whole seperate magic system that uses runes for the Nordic-like peoples. I have some good ideas from Vikings Sourcebook and Northern Reaches Gazetteer. I thought of having a third magic system called "runic" in addition to "arcane" and "divine". Each rune has a given spell affect much in the same way as a spell. However, in both Northern Reaches and Viking's Sourcebook, runes do not have a given spell level. Thus I am unsure where to begin... I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels (level 1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would show the same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass Invisibility, etc. Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating D&D3E spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through "divine" spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic of runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. regards, Joaquin HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:16:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires In-Reply-To: <6d.8717da0.26d57a5b@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 15:04 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >Maybe Hin Masters would be better represented as their own=20 >class?!=20 But since they're a class that, originally, HAD to be a second class it'd seem odd to make a third category of class, alongside original and prestige: "prestige classes that go up a bunch more levels." If you DON'T do that, we get more variation in Hin Masters: I can imagine Rogue/Masters, Fighter/Masters, Ranger/Masters, Bard/Masters, Rogue/Fighter/Masters, maybe even Paladin/Masters. >[I also=20 >like the prospect of recreating the highly specialized subclasses from 1st= =20 >Edit. days=E2=80=94back when there was a subclass for every character= concept=20 >under the sun.] Most of them are back, in one form or another: Assassins, Monks, Barbarians are all in the PHB or DMG, for instance. All that I can recall as missing are Cavaliers and Thief-Acrobats (the ORIGINAL AD&D prestige class!). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:08:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 3:10:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > I actually think Improved Denial should be kept for the Masters --=20 > without it, they're just hin spellcasters, and as I expect to see plenty=20 of=20 > new classes with halfling player characters, that's not necessarily going= =20 to=20 > be a unique category on its own. With all the talk of 3E conversion, last night I wrote out my wish list=20 of new classes and when I got to the Shires I put down Hin mages, sorcerers=20= &=20 even=20 some priests of the High Heroes. But then I stopped and asked myself, "Why are you watering down the uniqueness of the Shires?". I then crossed=20 out all the other spellcasters except for Hin Masters. They are THE hin=20 spell- caster, and should remain that way, at least in the Shires. Anyway, when a=20 Hin is blessed enough to have a greater affinity with the land, chances are=20 that=20 they will be noticed by the Masters and be invited to join them. It may eve= n=20 be=20 like you say and the gift of magic is more innate. If so, subtle difference= s=20 be- tween this magic ability and that necessary for arcane magic may make=20 becoming a mage more difficult. Or perhaps most Hin just shy away from=20 that type of thing for cultural reasons. In order to maintain the unique=20 culture=20 Ed Greenwood created for the Shires, I feel it is crucial to keep other type= s=20 of=20 Hin spellcasters very rare in the Shires. I still like the idea of Sheriffs and Krondar having a stronger denial=20 ability though. I just looked up how powerful the Masters' denial is, and I agree= =E2=80=94 THAT level of denial should only be possessed by Hin Masters. But maybe=20 something a little more powerful than the basic denial would work for=20 Sheriffs &=20 Krondar. However, converting to 3E, if one makes Denial a feat as you have,= =20 can't feats be improved? (Voila! Sheriffs & Krondar with a little stronger=20 denial=20 power.) =20 Please take my humble rantings as just that, =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:17:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: MMB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Long live the Commodore! ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Shutko To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] MMB > Evil Genius writes: > > > There's better programing in many freeware MB systems. > > Maybe they're just running the MB on a discarded Vic-20 hooked to the > net through the joystick port. > > -- > Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! > 79 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes, 54 seconds till we run away. > Laugh, and the world ignores you. Crying doesn't help either. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:01:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Rune Magic In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:38 08/23/2000 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >Any suggestions for Rune Magic. I would like to create a whole seperate magic system that uses runes for the Nordic-like peoples. I have some good ideas from Vikings Sourcebook and Northern Reaches Gazetteer. > >I thought of having a third magic system called "runic" in addition to "arcane" and "divine". > >Each rune has a given spell affect much in the same way as a spell. However, in both Northern Reaches and Viking's Sourcebook, runes do not have a given spell level. Thus I am unsure where to begin... > >I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels (level 1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would show the same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass Invisibility, etc. > >Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating D&D3E spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through "divine" spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic of runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. How many runes are there? If it's not a huge number, they could be acquired as feats. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:51:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:26 08/23/2000 -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: >They all are, if not unreliable at least slow. And the UI sucks. Again, could you point me to a slow/sucky Web board? 'cause I'm just not finding any that are harder to navigate than Usenet other than a few egregious examples like the WotC ones. And since Usenet has lag built into it inherently ... how is it faster than a message board? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:25:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 3:12:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: =20 > Whew. Either I'm not nuts, or I have company then! I guess you do. I assume you are referring to the paladins & not the=20 Masters' involvement in Known World affairs. =20 > Because prestige classes are limited to 10 levels in 3E. And,=20 > frankly, 36 levels of Hin Master was always pretty unnecessary.=20 > spells, IMO -- and it could all compress quite nicely. > =20 In that case, can't wait to see what you come up with! > Unfortunately, they're not Mystara-related. One is about pegging=20 NPC=20 > level advancement to the PCs' at different rates based on the roles the=20 NPCs=20 > play in the campaign, and the other is about when immunity to normal > weapons/damage resistance really MEANS and how to best use it in play to > scare the crap out of your players ... Both sound interesting, I'd still think it wouldn't hurt to subtlely=20 mention=20 them on the MML. I know you don't want to be a ham, but feel free to tell m= e=20 and I'll spread the word of my own free will! Maybe I'll get a subscription= =20 to the=20 ol' Dragon again, since it should be full of new 3E stuff. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:51:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 11:50:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involv= e=20 > > some real compression ... =20 > I'd reccomend restructuring it. Get rid of all non-hin-specific spells, > and fix up the spell levels. That makes the Master a lot more specialized > rather than just a "Hin Wizard" as it seemed to be in the gaz. Beau, I just reread this and it made me wonder=E2=80=94would you be up=20 to creating a few more Master-only spells based on druid spells,=20 Blackflame or whatever inspiration strikes you? I think your feel for=20 what is right for the Shires is unquestionably good enough (& I'm sure=20 I'm not alone in that belief) to create said spells and like SteelAngel=20 wrote above, it "makes the Master a lot more specialized"! Say yes,=20 and show your love for Hin and ' they'll love you back' !=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:47:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: MMB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Beau wrote: > > Other than the admittedly horrible WotC Web boards, > can I ask which you're referring to as slow and unreliable? > I've never had a problem with either Ultimate BBS, or WebBBS > (f'r instance, mine at http://www.LBY3.com/comic/forum/ runs > like a top). Mostly just slow. Reliability generally isn't a problem except when a server goes down, or when it takes so long that I close the window. :-) With a newsreader, you can browse the entire list of titles, expanding and collapsing threads instantaneously, without ever going across the network. When you *do* download a message it is generally pretty quick even when the server is under heavy use (probably because its raw text without all the extra images and HTML code), and downloaded pages are cached. Web boards on the other hand only show around 10-15 titles at a time, require a new page every time you expand or collapse a tree, get really slow under heavy usage, don't allow marking messages or watching threads, don't keep track of which messages you've already read, don't cache read messages, and occasionally hiccup (requiring a page refresh) or crash the web browser. If I want to save a message I have to manually convert it from HTML to plain text. All the fancy borders and graphics on the web page waste screen space so you have to scroll around more, and ads that refresh themselves every 2 minutes are very annoying. The web interface are also irritating because often when you follow a link and then hit the "back" button, it goes back to the wrong place in the page. You asked. :-) Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:02:43 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: Beau's message of "Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:51:58 -0700" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Beau writes: > Again, could you point me to a slow/sucky Web board? 'cause I'm just > not finding any that are harder to navigate than Usenet other than a > few egregious examples like the WotC ones. And since Usenet has lag > built into it inherently ... how is it faster than a message board? Usenet has a propagation delay built in, but you don't have a delay every time you go to the next message (if you're using an offline reader). It takes me about a second to enter a group. Less than a second to view a message or go to the next. Same time to retrieve the parent, pop up a reply, etc. With a newsreader, at least. It takes about 8 seconds to view the forum list at http://wpwin.com/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi. About 3 seconds to click into the linux forum. About 4 seconds to show all topics. Six seconds to view the discussion in one of the topics. About 2 seconds to get the reply form. Nine seconds to back-arrow from the form. We're not talking 30-second delays (though you certainly could see them depending on the state of the net) but there's a noticable delay on every single action taken. Already, I've wasted 30 more seconds than I would have in my newsreader. An amount of slowness is inherent in web messaging systems. As for suckiness, look at the message posting form. I get a little text area that covers about an 8th of my screen. Joy! With this software, messages aren't threaded, so you can't easily tell who's responding to what. On other boards that are threaded, they make it difficult to see subthreads (http://www.technocrat.net/966820849/index_html) or arbitrarily stop threading once it gets a couple messages deep (WotC). You can't just hit a key to go to the next message, but you have to go find the right link and click on it. Some message boards will tell you how many new messages are in the group since you last checked, but many won't (slashdot, technocrat). And invariably, to get such a feature, you have to set up an account on the server and remember another username and password for each different place. (You rarely do with news access, even to sites whose web board requires an account.) And you have to check each different web board manually, by clicking in your bookmarks till you've hit them all, because your software can't just check them all and tell you which have new messages, like a newsreader. So, while there are definately better web boards than others, I don't really like any of them. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 79 days, 18 hours, 48 minutes, 17 seconds till we run away. FACILITY REJECTED 100044200000; ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:10:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darth Darknerd wrote: > I thought of having a third magic system called "runic" in addition to = "arcane" and "divine". That's a very cool idea, though I think, you should probably be = realistic and limit it in scope. Creating a new magic system on par = with these two existing ones might be a bit ambitious. =20 > I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels = (level 1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would = show the same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass = Invisibility, etc. This sounds like an excellent suggestion. I would suggest the runes have = fewer than nine levels though, for simplicity. Coming up with nine = different Invisibilities, for example, might be overdoing it. So the = question remains how many, and what runes are appropriate. The GAZ lists = something like "the 24 Power Runes of Odin" IIRC. That might be as good = a place as any to look for inspiration. I really gotta find that GAZ; = it's buried somewhere in a pile of stuff. I've also got the Vikings = sourcebook lying about somewhere, I think. If I find them I'll see if I = get further inspiration... =20 > Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating = D&D3E spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through = "divine" spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the = most basic of runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of = runes. Hmm. Users of Divine magic in the Northern Reaches are, as far as I can = tell, also the same people who use runes. Unless you want to make the = RuneCaster a separate class (or prestige class or whatever), I think all = godi (priests) of the Northern Reaches pantheon should have access to = RuneCasting. Perhaps, 'ordinary' folks of the Northern Reaches could learn a 'Feat' = (or whatever; I'm not into 3rd ed.) to activate the basic or level 1 = form of the rune, while only RuneCasters can activate the higher levels. = Questions remain, such as: 'how many times per day?', 'can runes be used = up?', 'where can one put a rune?'. Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about this (and contributing if I = can find those damn books)! Good luck with the 'HelleRister' (that ought = to be good old-fashioned viking Danish for 'RuneCaster')! Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:14:12 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 11:46:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: << Also, anyone know why prestige classes are restricted to 10 levels? It sounds arbitary and restrictive, like level limits in the older systems >> Though I'm not sure the exact reason, but I be it's because they wanted to try to but a 'standard' cap on Prestige Classes at 10th level like they did with normal classes at 20th level. I'm sure the high-level book will touch on 10th+ level P-Classes. The other reason I'd guess at, is because the average player probably won't take more than 10 levels in a P-Class, mainly because he'll want some of the abilities associated with his basic class that he'll be missing out on, such as spell progression for wizards, extra feats for fighters, and so on. That's my guess, anyway. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:39:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I can't think of RW Bedu tribes that have anything like > barbarian rage or immunity to damage.>> > > Well, yeah, but who realy does, huh? the irish. especially when we drink. ;-) mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:00:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Barbarians of Brun MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit that was a rabbit that was possessed by one of the demons. mortus. > Wasn't there a savage, flame farting, pink bunny that led a rabbit > revolution in the comic 'Floyd" in DRAGON some time back. > > > Hey, didja ever play Bunnies & Burrows? What about Rabbit Rampage (or, > "Wabbit Wampage")? > > Oh, yes, I've still got Wabbit's Wevenge lying about somewhere (watch out, > Wambo will get you!). Hm, better lay off; ever-so-slightly off-topic... > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:32:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: MMB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yeah it did, and thats about when i stopped using it. occassionally when i have so much spare time i don't know what to do with it(about once every third blue moon or so) i take a look to see has it gotten any better, but alas no. mortus. > In all seriousness, is it just me, or does the MMB actually *devolve* > every time WotC announces an "improvement". I seem to recall it > actually worked much better around 2 years ago. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:07:13 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lord Deldain wrote: > The other reason I'd guess at, is because the average player > probably won't take more than 10 levels in a P-Class, mainly > because he'll want some of the abilities associated with his > basic class that he'll be missing out on, such as spell > progression for wizards, extra feats for fighters, and so on. Good point. Is there a 20% XP penalty for having mismatched levels in a prestige class like there is for regular classes? Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:40:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:25 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >> Whew. Either I'm not nuts, or I have company then! > > I guess you do. I assume you are referring to the paladins & not the >Masters' involvement in Known World affairs. Exactly. Although I like the idea that the Hin masters are a shadow government of the Shires, worrying about defense and international issues that the Sheriffs don't have time for. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:21:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Magic and Mystara (was Elven Sorcery) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 6:00:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > If we work with the idea that all magic comes from the same > fundamental source, then wizards could tap into the same source but > have to do it via a more complicated, artificial means > (wizardry). Of course the problem with this is that wizards are > capable of music magic just fine on other planets and other > planes. For that matter, I've never thought that elves should have a > problem either. Then again, maybe that connection with Mystara is > necessary, but doesn't need to be physical and constant. Perhaps you > can be anywhere and so long as Mystara's magic is alive, your magic > is alive. =20 Maybe magic created on Mystara draws from the same universal source=20 that magic created anywhere draws from?! [BTW, your ideas about why elven magic is innate sounded good.] > Or perhaps a protracted absence from Mystara would create > a problem for wizards and sorcerers. Druidic magic is easy to > integrate likewise, but I'm not sure how clerical magic would fit in, > since that seems to depend on the Immortals and not Mystara or any > other particular place. What were you thinking about the connection > between arcane and divine magic since divine magic comes from > Immortals, or do you use an alternative model of divine magic? If you are asking how I explain the apparent paradox between=20 arcane and divine magic without tossing out D&D conventions, I=20 do have an alternative model, but not just for divine magic. Please, allow me to explain: Mystarans certainly do believe that magic power comes=20 from several different sources. But the truth is that behind all=20 their various methodologies and techniques for creating magic=20 lies one universal way of accessing the true source of magic. =20 This true source is an essence that pervades the entire multi- verse. It functions somewhat like the skeleton and muscles=20 of the multiverse, over which reality exists like a skin. This=20 essence is the pulse and motive power for the entire multi- verse. The multiverse follows its laws (of universal dynamics)=20 first before any local (individual planes' ) laws of physics. =20 To access this "universal essence," one must have the=20 innate ability to sense it and a natural affinity for "shaping" it into useful effects. Though a few Mystarans can learn to do=20 this on their own due to a strong inherent ability (sorcerers),=20 most need years of practice to learn how to focus their weaker=20 ability enough to produce useful results (spells). As for the=20 difference between arcane and divine magic, underneath it=20 all, there is none. The various styles, techniques, and theory=20 taught by both types of magic only serve to hone the natural=20 aptitude a spellcaster already possesses. Of course, making=20 this knowledge well-known to players and their characters=20 would destroy the mystique of magic. But there may come=20 a time when a PC has advanced far enough to pursue a path=20 to Immortality. It is at such a time that the truths behind the=20 many mysteries of the multiverse begin to become apparent. =20 If the PC is lucky, perhaps he/she will even uncover the=20 truth of magic. [If the divine/arcane conflict still bugs you, consider this,=20 even if the Immortals do "grant" spells, they do so as=20 intermediaries to the universal essence and cannot fully=20 deny magic to anyone who has power enough to defy=20 them. They may perhaps enhance the natural ability of=20 their followers though.] I also posted a longer description of my universal=20 essence premise back on 8/10/00 under the subject=20 "The Nature of Magic." =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:10:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires In-Reply-To: <36.a85d3c4.26d59356@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 16:51 08/23/2000 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >Beau, I just reread this and it made me wonder=E2=80=94would you be up=20 >to creating a few more Master-only spells based on druid spells,=20 >Blackflame or whatever inspiration strikes you? I think your feel for=20 >what is right for the Shires is unquestionably good enough (& I'm sure=20 >I'm not alone in that belief) to create said spells and like SteelAngel=20 >wrote above, it "makes the Master a lot more specialized"! Say yes,=20 >and show your love for Hin and ' they'll love you back' !=20 Heh. Let's see how I feel once I've converted the existing list. It may be that, yeah, I think of two or three or a bunch of new spells that go along just fine with what exists now. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:21:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: MMB In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC601@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:47 08/23/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: >Web boards on the other hand only show around 10-15 titles at a time, >require a new page every time you expand or collapse a tree, get really slow >under heavy usage, don't allow marking messages or watching threads, don't >keep track of which messages you've already read, don't cache read messages, >and occasionally hiccup (requiring a page refresh) or crash the web browser. >If I want to save a message I have to manually convert it from HTML to plain >text. All the fancy borders and graphics on the web page waste screen space >so you have to scroll around more, and ads that refresh themselves every 2 >minutes are very annoying. The web interface are also irritating because >often when you follow a link and then hit the "back" button, it goes back to >the wrong place in the page. > >You asked. :-) Actually a lot of these problems are now addressed by the newer technologies. (Again, NOT like WotC's.) With the use of cookies, boards like mine do track which messages are new and can be massaged into showing just the view you want -- I get just the last 12 hours, most recent messages at the top, and threaded. WotC could do a lot worse than to upgrade to what I'm using, which is actually a year out of date for WebBBS (the newer ones automate what I had to do manually, like changing the font and response messages). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:30:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC604@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:07 08/23/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: >Good point. Is there a 20% XP penalty for having mismatched levels in a >prestige class like there is for regular classes? Yep. I suspect D&D won't see many multiclassed PCs except with the preferred classes or with humans and half-elves. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:21:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think there should be stricter penalities for the Mystara campaign. One one side, you want to let people play any mutant character combinations, etc. However, however there should be harsh penalities. For example a multi-class dwarf in Rockhome that steals. Other combinations, like the typical Alfheim Fighter/Mage should have lesser penalities than the norm. One the same token, Fighter/Mage Humans (Foresters) of Vyalia should receive no or little penality as well (just like the elves of Mystara), as there is a special condition for this combination. --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:30:09 Beau wrote: >At 15:07 08/23/2000 -0700, Harvey, Michael wrote: > >>Good point. Is there a 20% XP penalty for having mismatched levels in a >>prestige class like there is for regular classes? > > Yep. I suspect D&D won't see many multiclassed PCs except with the >preferred classes or with humans and half-elves. > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:32:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Magic and Mystara (was Elven Sorcery) In-Reply-To: <96.8c681fa.26d5a882@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 03:21 PM 8/23/00, SR Johnson wrote: Mystarans certainly do believe that magic power comes from several different sources. But the truth is that behind all their various methodologies and techniques for creating magic lies one universal way of accessing the true source of magic. This true source is an essence that pervades the entire multi- verse. It functions somewhat like the skeleton and muscles of the multiverse, over which reality exists like a skin. This essence is the pulse and motive power for the entire multi- verse. The multiverse follows its laws (of universal dynamics) first before any local (individual planes' ) laws of physics. Ok, I see now. I thought that you were suggesting the planet of Mystara as the universal source, but if the source permeates the whole multiverse, then there's no problem at all. As you say, Immortals serve as proxies or conduits for clerics to get their magic (not a trivial designation mind you, since they do DEPEND on their Immortals for such access), but they still get it from the same ultimate source as wizards, etc. This still has me concerned about Druids, though. I like the idea that their magic derives from a connection with the land, but that would suggest that separated from it, they would be powerless. Innate sorcerous elven magic based on a connection with the land suggests the same issue. You could think of Mystara or the land as serving just as critical a link to the universal source of magic as Immortals are to their clerics. And yet I wouldn't want to prohibit druids and elves from interplanetary or interplanar adventures. Perhaps their spellcasting ability should be weakened under those circumstances, but not cut off completely because they carry a part of the land within themselves wherever they go? ./ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \. < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > .\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /. "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:33:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the enthusiasm. Though ambitious with interest and support, I feel encouraged to do something. I am thinking to see if I can submit this idea for a Dragon article. I hope they'll let me put a few Mystara plugs in there (such as references to Northern Reaches). I think that the system will have to be exactly consistent to the current magic system (levels 0 to 9), as the upcoming D&D3E Pscionic system (slated for March 2001) will also follow the same pattern. Though the rules for creating the runes, and the frequency, is completely undecided. I have to put some thought into this, make it unique and intriguing at the same time. I love the idea for a feat that allows creation some basic runes. Perhaps I can have a 0-Level category (like orisons and cantrips) for minor protections. Norse godi (priests) would naturally have access to Level 1 through 3. The specific class RuneCaster has access up to level 9. The challenge here will be to create runes creative enough beyond what is mentioned in the Gazetteer and Viking Sourcebook. thanks, Joaquin --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:10:39 Jacob Skytte wrote: >Darth Darknerd wrote: > > >> I thought of having a third magic system called "runic" in addition to "arcane" and "divine". > >That's a very cool idea, though I think, you should probably be realistic and limit it in scope. Creating a new magic system on par with these two existing ones might be a bit ambitious. > >> I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels (level 1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would show the same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass Invisibility, etc. > >This sounds like an excellent suggestion. I would suggest the runes have fewer than nine levels though, for simplicity. Coming up with nine different Invisibilities, for example, might be overdoing it. So the question remains how many, and what runes are appropriate. The GAZ lists something like "the 24 Power Runes of Odin" IIRC. That might be as good a place as any to look for inspiration. I really gotta find that GAZ; it's buried somewhere in a pile of stuff. I've also got the Vikings sourcebook lying about somewhere, I think. If I find them I'll see if I get further inspiration... > >> Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating D&D3E spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through "divine" spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic of runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. > >Hmm. Users of Divine magic in the Northern Reaches are, as far as I can tell, also the same people who use runes. Unless you want to make the RuneCaster a separate class (or prestige class or whatever), I think all godi (priests) of the Northern Reaches pantheon should have access to RuneCasting. > >Perhaps, 'ordinary' folks of the Northern Reaches could learn a 'Feat' (or whatever; I'm not into 3rd ed.) to activate the basic or level 1 form of the rune, while only RuneCasters can activate the higher levels. Questions remain, such as: 'how many times per day?', 'can runes be used up?', 'where can one put a rune?'. > >Anyway, I'm interested in hearing more about this (and contributing if I can find those damn books)! Good luck with the 'HelleRister' (that ought to be good old-fashioned viking Danish for 'RuneCaster')! > >Jacob Skytte >scythe@wanadoo.dk > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:28:04 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: MMB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:41 23/08/00 CEST, you wrote: >Alan Shutko wrote: >"I stopped reading it because it's such junk!" > > >Well... I have to say that this isn't that respectful of you, Alan: Shawm >Stanley has been writing messages there, also very recently. >I am sure you didn't mean to offend anybody, you just didn't chose the best >words to express your frustration for not reading very many things of your >interest there lately: correct? > >However, I agree that it'd be better to centralize information (Mystara-L, >Mystara3E, MMB) on one single list, also to achieve better visibility in >front of WotC. but it would seem that maybe Wizards put more weight on the MMB, I dunno shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:29:04 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:47 23/08/00 -0400, you wrote: >I notice that Shawn just uploaded it onto his site, too. :) that's what my post was meant to mean. Sorry if I was cryptic. >standard answer to all questions - "Check Shawn's site." :o) shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:29:57 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: MMB Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Sorry for being imprecise. I did not mean to insult the content there >at all, which I've always found interesting. But the message board >software has had way too many problems for me lately and I just grew >sick of it. I used the newsreader interface, and the server was down >more often than not. that has been a definite problem recently, yes >And the web interface just drives me batty. it isn't as good as the newsreader, no shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:38:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There are a few dozen amongst both books (Vikings Sourcebook and Gazetteer). However, I thought of creating more, and also having some already current spells act as runes as well. These spells would not be something that is invoked, but rather a rune is inscribed and it activates upon a given condition. As an analogy, it is sort of half-ways between a spell and an actually crafted magical weapon. In Vikings Sourcebook, there is an actual class that fits quite well into the Northern Reaches Gazetteer. I thought of updating this class to D&D3E, create a D&D3E compatible runic system, add a few spells and runes to the repertoire, and viola, we have an unique magic system for Mystara. ^_^ --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:01:21 Beau wrote: >At 12:38 08/23/2000 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >>Any suggestions for Rune Magic. I would like to create a whole seperate >magic system that uses runes for the Nordic-like peoples. I have some good >ideas from Vikings Sourcebook and Northern Reaches Gazetteer. >> >>I thought of having a third magic system called "runic" in addition to >"arcane" and "divine". >> >>Each rune has a given spell affect much in the same way as a spell. >However, in both Northern Reaches and Viking's Sourcebook, runes do not >have a given spell level. Thus I am unsure where to begin... >> >>I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels (level >1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would show the >same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass Invisibility, etc. >> >>Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating D&D3E >spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through "divine" >spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic of >runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. > > How many runes are there? If it's not a huge number, they could be >acquired as feats. > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:33:49 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Stefan Karameikos Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:17 23/08/00 -0700, you wrote: >At 17:28 8/23/00 +1000, shawn stanley wrote: >>Guess who's been revamped under 3E rules by Wizards? > > Where? Where? http://dnd.starflung.com/stefan.html shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:55:06 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Mentats of Honor Island Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mentats of Honor Island Before there were discussions of using pscionics in a Mystaran campaign. I personally never liked psionics as the system was incompatible and unbalancing to the AD&D system. Now with the upcoming Pscionic system (March 2001), there is a pscionic system that is compatible with the existing "divine" and "arcane" spell resolution system. Consider this a third category of "pscionic". Given this, I want to use pscionics, so here is one idea... Honor Island (Ierendi) is indeed a cursed island. Those not possessing pscionic powers and step onto the island have a chance to go insane. Somehow, pscionically endowed persons are immune to this effect. On the island in a monastery, there exist a secret society of pscions called "Mentats" whom practice their art in secrecy. They are somehow able to link their powers together. They continuously seek out other pscions whom may be compatible with their group, and bring them into their flock. Those that are not compatible, or who refuse to join, will either have their powers removed, or somehow disappear from Mystara. It is unknown the actual goal of this secret society, nor what they hope to gain. They are on some important mission, some purpose, that they feel is greater than their individual lives. The mentats never make decisions on their own as they are always mind-linked with the whole, and they make decisions as a whole. Characters will note that any decision of import requires the mentat to pause and close his eyes while he contemplates the decision. Really he is communicating amongst his brethren for the final decision. It is unknown as to whether these mentats are related to the cursed peoples of the island (those of Nithian descent), or whether they were later settlers whom found themselves immune to the curse's effect. The origin and existence of the mentats is unknown, as is their purpose. It is speculated by local sages that the group is quite old, even perhaps as old as Nithia itself. (Hint, Hint) HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:01:01 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Darth Darknerd meandered fecklessly... > One one side, you want to let people play any mutant > character combinations, etc. However, however there > should be harsh penalities. For example a multi-class > dwarf in Rockhome that steals. Isn't this a case where roleplaying out the penalties and problems is preferable to rules? Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:21 08/23/2000 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >I think there should be stricter penalities for the Mystara campaign. >One one side, you want to let people play any mutant character combinations, etc. However, however there should be harsh penalities. For example a multi-class dwarf in Rockhome that steals. That's a roleplayed penalty. No mechanism needed. >Other combinations, like the typical Alfheim Fighter/Mage should have lesser penalities than the norm. One the same token, Fighter/Mage Humans (Foresters) of Vyalia should receive no or little penality as well (just like the elves of Mystara), as there is a special condition for this combination. That's handled perfectly through the multiclassing system's preferred class system. If Foresters aren't just Rangers, having them be human multiclassed characters with only two classes has no penalty under the default system. But in some cases, preferred classes may need to be shifted around by a case-by-case basis to make things conform to local realities. And that's OK, too. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 17:00:39 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Rune Magic In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:38 08/23/2000 -0700, Darth Darknerd wrote: >There are a few dozen amongst both books (Vikings Sourcebook and Gazetteer). However, I thought of creating more, and also having some already current spells act as runes as well. > >These spells would not be something that is invoked, but rather a rune is inscribed and it activates upon a given condition. As an analogy, it is sort of half-ways between a spell and an actually crafted magical weapon. > >In Vikings Sourcebook, there is an actual class that fits quite well into the Northern Reaches Gazetteer. I thought of updating this class to D&D3E, create a D&D3E compatible runic system, add a few spells and runes to the repertoire, and viola, we have an unique magic system for Mystara. ^_^ The Runecaster? I believe there's a 3E conversion up at Eric Noah's site right now. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:19:50 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000822004711.00b96d60@cogsci.ucsd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 3) no blood of the human subspecies that allows for MU (wizardly) magic (or possibly no more than a certain maximum amount) The problem that I have with this, is that I have always played magic users as researchers, almost scientific in their pursuit of magic. The use of magic is not blood related, it is just possible to be a natural born Sorcerer, or you could have worked/studied your way into having a magical talent. The difference between a Savant and a Mathematics Professor. Dylan R. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:13:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 6:23:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << Yep. I suspect D&D won't see many multiclassed PCs except with the preferred classes or with humans and half-elves. >> Just have to ask what your source is on their being a XP penaltly for prestige class. Everything I've seen or head thus hasn't mentioned there being an XP penalty for being multiclassed in a prestige class. Of course I could have very easily overlooked it in the PH or some other souce such as Eric's page. Either way, just curious. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:15:18 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000823134010.007c5d30@lby3.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:40 PM 8/23/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Exactly. Although I like the idea that the Hin masters are a shadow >government of the Shires, worrying about defense and international issues >that the Sheriffs don't have time for. Halfling KGB, anyone? Geoff- you listening to this? Could work in with your "Dark Shires" plans... :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:22:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 2:58:57 PM Central Daylight Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: > Any suggestions for Rune Magic. I would like to create a whole seperate > magic system that uses runes for the Nordic-like peoples. I have some good > ideas from Vikings Sourcebook and Northern Reaches Gazetteer. Perhaps you could associate them with an Item Creation Feat. The Create Rune Feat could be accessable as you see fit and be similar to creating potions or some such. I have no clue what factors you would consider for the xp cost or gp(?) cost, but I think the Item Creation stuff is the most similar effect to a runic system. Matter of fact, I think a specialized form of the Scribe Scroll Feat might fit the bill quite nicely. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:52:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I have an idea I've been mulling over and wondered if anyone else had a similar idea. For that matter, I'm curious what major, heretical changes people have made to Mystara in their own campaigns. The idea I had was... ah... making the Five Shires ruled by humans. It would change the flavor of the region a lot having a another smallish human realm, and it would provide for a "Mystara England" type of place. It could easily be populated by an offshoot branch of the Hattians mixed with Traladarans. The halfling idea is okay, but just doesn't seem as fun as merry old England to me. Of course I'd still have halflings populating various corners of the area and there would still be a piracy theme. This change would also fit with the sweeping changes I plan for Ierendi and Atruaghin. I haven't totally settled on this yet, just an idea I'm considering. Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:53:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) In-Reply-To: <9e.8cf3a41.26d5deb9@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:13 8/23/00 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >In a message dated 8/23/00 6:23:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM >writes: > ><< Yep. I suspect D&D won't see many multiclassed PCs except with the > preferred classes or with humans and half-elves. >> > >Just have to ask what your source is on their being a XP penaltly for >prestige class. Everything I've seen or head thus hasn't mentioned there >being an XP penalty for being multiclassed in a prestige class. Of course I >could have very easily overlooked it in the PH or some other souce such as >Eric's page. Either way, just curious. I saw Ryan (I believe) quoted at Eric's. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 21:19:55 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Harvey, Michael meandered fecklessly... > Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? Ierendi. Definitely Ierendi. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:33:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 8:08:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: << Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? >> Not so much the nations themselves, but I've altered many other aspects that conflicted with my view of how I see Mystar, or things I felt were kind of lame, IMO, such as the Rakasta on the invisible moon, or the spaceship that landed in Blackmoor, etc. My suggestion is make the setting what you want it to be. That's what I did, and I enjoy it greatly. It's always easier to remake a world in your image, than it is to create a new one from scratch. Ot at least, that's been my experience. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:37:49 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 8:08:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << I saw Ryan (I believe) quoted at Eric's. >> Figures, probably one of the fews days I didn't check for any new 3e scoops. ;) I just recall seeing something about muticlassing in a p-class not having an XP penalty on another webpage, but the page hadn't been updated in quite sometime so the info could easily have been outdated. But anyway, perhaps some races should have favored p-classes as well as normal classes? Something to think about... - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:08:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my game system, which is not D&D but a home-grown system called Borigon, the skill can be improved through game play by any Hin (though this is at the cost of development in other areas). The Hin Master is able to more easily increase their denial ability. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beau" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") > At 13:23 08/23/2000 -0500, George wrote: > >In my game all Hin have this power, but they can only exercise it on > >"consecrated" ground. This includes the Five Shires and any clan holding > >that has a Crucible of Black Flame. In fact this is an offshoot of the > >mastery > >and affinity of the Hin to Black Flame. > > Do you mean Denial or the Master-level Improved Denial? > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:21:38 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") In-Reply-To: <000101c00d61$04b78a20$69f5143f@richelieu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 05:19 PM 8/23/00, D. S. Rickards wrote: 3) no blood of the human subspecies that allows for MU (wizardly) magic (or possibly no more than a certain maximum amount) The problem that I have with this, is that I have always played magic users as researchers, almost scientific in their pursuit of magic. The use of magic is not blood related, it is just possible to be a natural born Sorcerer, or you could have worked/studied your way into having a magical talent. The difference between a Savant and a Mathematics Professor. Dylan R. I guess I must be off my rocker since no one else seems to know what I'm talking about, but I coulda sworn there was something somewhere suggesting that some humans have the biological capacity to learn magic and others don't. Oh well. I have no idea which book I think it's in, so I can't just go check. The idea wasn't that it gives you that ability for free, but that you'd still have to be a researcher to tap into it. If there is no such thing going, please ignore my mention of wizardly blood and homo magicus or whatever. Thanks :) Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:24:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 10:26:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NE= T=20 writes: > Halfling KGB, anyone? Geoff- you listening to this? Could work in with you= r > "Dark Shires" plans... :) > =20 OK, I'll bite, what are these "Dark Shires" I've heard mention of before= ? Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge=20 spy organization & network? If anyone doubts the likelyhood of this, think=20 about the RW. When countries have an excess of national wealth, inter- national business interests, many pre-existing diplomatic posts, and an=20 overactive drive for self-preservation do they not tend to develop strong=20 spy organizations? [A Darokin spy network would have serious ramifica- tions in Mystaran world happenings (understatement)!] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:21:57 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:33 8/23/00 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >Not so much the nations themselves, but I've altered many other aspects that >conflicted with my view of how I see Mystar, or things I felt were kind of >lame, IMO, such as the Rakasta on the invisible moon, or the spaceship that >landed in Blackmoor, etc. That's me, too. I'm burying those aspects with a shovel, and then burying the shovel. IF I ever include any Blackmoor stuff or the Nucleus of the Spheres, it'll be "things mortals were not meant to know" and I'll leave it at that. "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" was cool when I was in middle school, but I have no taste for it now. >My suggestion is make the setting what you want it to be. That's what I did, >and I enjoy it greatly. It's always easier to remake a world in your image, >than it is to create a new one from scratch. Ot at least, that's been my >experience. I agree. I started my campaigns planning on pegging the timeline to the almanacs, but instead, I've found myself just ignoring them and going my own way. And, as may be obvious, I'm a heretic who thinks that the setting, not the system, defines Mystara and am happy to add in 3E elements and AD&D elements and casually disregard what some call "real" Mystara. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:59:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/23/00 11:08:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: > have an idea I've been mulling over and wondered if anyone else had a > similar idea. For that matter, I'm curious what major, heretical changes > people have made to Mystara in their own campaigns. Now and again, I have made fairly sweeping changes to my Mystara. One=20 big one is that Nithia is the oldest human civilization, not Olmec. Olmec=20 still=20 follows close on its tail, as it and the Azca civilization were offshoots of= =20 its=20 slave people. Oh, did I mention, Nithia began as a Lupin civilization?! =20 Other=20 blasphemous changes include moving Ierendi much further south (to help=20 explain its climate), having the early civilizations begin twice as long ago= =20 as canon says, switching offworld aliens for Blackmoor humans, making the=20 people of Alphatia and Bellisaria a racial mix with the indigenous Jennite=20 race (which I see as mongolian), and basically altering the look & ecologies= =20 of every race and monster on Mystara to suit my own personal tastes! How's that for blashphemy?! :> =20 > and it would provide for a "Mystara England" type of place. It could easi= ly > be populated by an offshoot branch of the Hattians mixed with Traladarans= . > The halfling idea is okay, but just doesn't seem as fun as merry old=20 England Mike do you know that LARGE streches of the Isle of Dawn (the north=20 and southwest) are covered with civilizations based on medieval England,=20 Scotland, Ireland and the Celts? My group has yet to go there, but when=20 they do they will have a setting that is LARGER than the Known World! =20 [I'm counting only the core gazeteer nations.] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 02:02:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Magister Mystaros Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/23/00 10:08:37 PM US Eastern Standard Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: << Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? Mike >> I turned Ierendi into an Elizabethan England style nation; I am definitely not the only one here that changed Ierendi. The Isle of Dawn is also very different in my version of Mystara (lots more people, lots more cultures), and my version of the Broken Lands is darker, more Mordor-like. Oh, and IMC Alphatia never sank during the WotI; it simple broke out in Civil War. It's also sort of more like Lord D'Arcy's "Angevin Empire" (in an earlier era than the novels) than the empire described in DotE. James A. Mishler Magister Mystaros Mystara Lives! Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:55:51 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SR Johnson wrote: > > Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge > spy organization & network? If anyone doubts the likelyhood of this, think > about the RW. When countries have an excess of national wealth, inter- > national business interests, many pre-existing diplomatic posts, and an > overactive drive for self-preservation do they not tend to develop strong > spy organizations? [A Darokin spy network would have serious ramifica- > tions in Mystaran world happenings (understatement)!] > —Shawn J. I should note that it took a *long* time for real world governments to figure out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques. Not to say they didn't have them, but agencies as effective as the CIA and the KGB are a thing of the 20th century. Like anything else, measure leads to countermeasure leads to new measures, etc. The end result is, if you want to use real world models, not very fun for RPGs. :-) Anyway, this is not to say spy agencies don't belong in fantasy settings like Mystara, just commenting. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 02:34:14 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 2:08:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, xenya@TELEPORT.COM writes: > I should note that it took a *long* time for real world governments to > figure out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques. Not to > say they didn't have them, but agencies as effective as the CIA and the > KGB are a thing of the 20th century. > Anyway, this is not to say spy agencies don't belong in fantasy settings > like Mystara, just commenting. I may be no expert on medieval & ancient history, but I'm willing to bet there are a surprisingly large number of RW civilizations that used spies, or at the least informant networks. I can readily agree that their sophistication may not have been as great as 20th cent. groups nor as "methodologized", but I have a feeling it got the job done almost as well. For that matter, how realistic is it for Darokin to have any manner of psuedo-democracy at all? That too, is a more or less modern manifestation. Oh well, considering the way I wrote my earlier post I suppose it was bound to be a rebuttal magnet. ;> ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:39:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Scaring your players In-Reply-To: <200008161318.JAA08356@freenet10.carleton.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:18 AM 8/16/00 -0400, you wrote: >>(sent into a maddened frenzy by the power of the Horn of Herne, an artifact >>that the forces of evil were trying to recover from the Caves of Chaos). > >Was that an "official" artifact, or something from your campaign? If the >latter, could you share it with us? :-) > >Geoff, looking for another excuse to scare his players.... Yeah, it was something I made up, based around legends of the Celtic Wild Hunt, and also loosely inspired by Herne the Huntsman from (book 12?) of the Wild Cards novels. I'll sit down and do a writeup over the next couple of days, since you're interested. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:39:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <03fa01c00beb$3f5aa8a0$b188a1d8@thedeadlands> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:44 PM 8/21/00 -0600, you wrote: > >I don't see any reason why not, myself. I would raise the >prerequisite levels, but otherwise the concept seems fine to me. >I don't see that the item creation feats are necessarily _balanced_ >by being strictly for spellcasters. That strikes me as more of a >flavor kind of thing. I was thinking this: Need 10 ranks in an appropriate skill (Craft: Armorer, Craft: Weaponsmith, Craft: Bowyer, etc.) and the feat Craft Arms and Armor. This would allow the dwarf to endow weapons with plusses. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:51:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SR Johnson wrote: > > I may be no expert on medieval & ancient history, but I'm willing to bet > there are a surprisingly large number of RW civilizations that used spies, or > at the least informant networks. I can readily agree that their > sophistication > may not have been as great as 20th cent. groups nor as "methodologized", > but I have a feeling it got the job done almost as well. For that matter, > how > realistic is it for Darokin to have any manner of psuedo-democracy at all? > That too, is a more or less modern manifestation. Oh well, considering the > way I wrote my earlier post I suppose it was bound to be a rebuttal magnet. > ;> It wasn't a rebuttal, more a suggestion to keep a few things in mind. I mean, I did say that since it's fantasy, one need not hew to real world considerations. To mildly digress, I tend to think that the various D&D fantasy settings *are* socially advanced beyond the "feudal/renaissance" periods. I never said spies weren't used, btw. Just that the organized and effective spies of the modern era aren't quite as likely. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:53:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies In-Reply-To: <32.93fa9ba.26d60ba6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:24 AM 8/24/00 EDT, you wrote: > > OK, I'll bite, what are these "Dark Shires" I've heard mention of before? Dunno yet. Something Geoff is working on, presumably. I think he mentioned it will be in the next Tome of Mystara. > Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge >spy organization & network? Definitely. In fact, I designed (at least in principle) a branch of the DDC whose purpose was just that- intelligence gathering. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:55:11 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Darokin Spies In-Reply-To: <4c.98334e1.26d61be6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:34 AM 8/24/00 EDT, you wrote: > > I may be no expert on medieval & ancient history, but I'm willing to bet >there are a surprisingly large number of RW civilizations that used spies, or >at the least informant networks. I can readily agree that their >sophistication may not have been as great as 20th cent. groups nor as >"methodologized", but I have a feeling it got the job done almost as well. While doing research for some Shakespearian-type spy fiction, I learned that the Elizabethan court actually had a fairly sophisticated and effective intelligence network. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:19:43 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beau wrote: =20 > The Runecaster? I believe there's a 3E conversion up at Eric = Noah's site > right now. All right, Joaquin; the first thing you gotta do, is check out what that = is about, before going any further. If this Runecaster is totally = inconsistent with what you had imagined, get a new name for the = class/prestige class/feat/what-have-you and take it from there! BTW I managed to dig up my GAZ 7, but the Vikings Sourcebook seems lost = to the ages. I'm afraid one of my former players borrowed it once, and = 'forgot' to return it (hey, that's what happened to my B1-9 In Search of = Adventure, my Ruins of Adventure, and my Desert of Desolation books! So = far I've managed to only get the last one back). I did manage to find my = Mighty Fortress Sourcebook and the Book of Marvelous Magic lying about. = Sigh. Too much stuff in too little space. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:36:58 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darth Darknerd wrote: > These spells would not be something that is invoked, but rather a rune = is inscribed and it activates upon a given condition. As an analogy, it = is sort of half-ways between a spell and an actually crafted magical = weapon. >>Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating = D&D3E >>spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through = "divine" >>spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic = of >>runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. Decide you must. Would you prefer Create Rune (CR) and Activate Rune = (AR) Feats/Skills/Proficiencies/Gizmo-the-little-Mogwais or just Create = Rune? If you go with just CR, you would create a powerful character who = could make 'magic items' usable by anyone, where the level of effect = depends on the creator, not the user. If you go with AR, anybody could = activate the rune, but the effect would depend on the user's level (of = AR). Good (and bad) things could be said about either choice. I, = personally, would go for the latter. >>I thought of one idea is having rune be cast at different levels = (level >>1-9) much in the same way as a spell. An invisibility rune would show = the >>same affects as Invisibility, Superior Invisibility, Mass = Invisibility, etc. I do see your point, but coming up with 9 (10?) different levels of = effect that are actually different (not just -2 to ST, or whatever) is a = lot of hard work. And if you want more than two dozen runes, each with = those levels, you're getting in over your head... Alas, I've made that = same mistake a few times, so let me help you out with some suggestions. = Here's what I can come up with (general notes) on your Invisibility = Rune: Invisibility (of course giving it a cool name is part of the flavor; how = about: Uset 'the Unseen'. Ok, there's already a Pethru 'the Unseen' = Rune, so maybe something else; I wonder about that Pethru, is that = Norwegian/Swedish/Finnish?) 1. Camouflage (user needs to be still in favorable cover already). 2. Hide in Shadows (user needs to be still in dark conditions). 3. Chameleon (user needs to be still, works everywhere). 4. Transparency (makes user hard to notice under all circumstances). 5. Invisibility (when standing still). 6. Invisibility (until attacking or other hostile action). 7. Invisibility 10' Radius. 8. Improved Invisibility. 9. Mass Invisibility. There might be room for an additional effect somewhere in there. Here are some other considerations on runes: 'Who can make a Rune?' Anybody could, technically, etch a rune on a given object, but for it to = be imbued with power, it needs to be etched by a HelleRister (that is my = name for 'RuneCaster' for now, since there already might be a RuneCaster = class/whatever) in a ritual. 'How do you recognize if a Rune is working?' Any HelleRister can, of course, see if a rune is imbued with power. = Other people are able to discern it if they have the Activate Rune = Feat/Skill/Proficiency/Gizmo-the-little-Mogwai. 'How do you identify a Rune?' Due to the number of runes, one cannot be expected to be able to discern = the effect of a given rune. The name might give you a clue ('the = Unseen', for example). A HelleRister might divine the effects of a given = rune, but others would have to activate it to find out the effect. 'Can a Rune be used up?' I would suggest not, since runes are permanent etchings. They shouldn't = require charges, IMO, though that might be a possibility (and one that = should definitely be considered, if you only go with the Create Rune = Feat/etc.). 'How many times can a Rune be used in a given interval of time, then?' Hmm. If you go with the Activate Rune Feat/Sk..(you know what I mean), = perhaps the number of times you've taken that F/S/P/GtlM. 'How large is a Rune?' Size matters not. The rune should be clearly visible, though. Larger = runes do not have greater effects. One could imagine, however, a = candidate for Immortality etching a giant rune across Vestland, by = arranging villages/mountains/other landmarks into a rune (the exact type = depending on preferred Sphere; how about a giant 'Death' Rune affecting = all of Vestland?). 'What objects can be enscribed with Runes?' Technically any object might be used. It is preferable to etch your = runes on a durable object, if you want them to last. RW vikings etched = them on weapons, armor, shields, ships, standing stones, above doorways, = and many other places. 'Are there cursed Runes?' Of course. I mean, why not? Another approach might be to say, that the = improper activation of a rune triggers an unwanted effect. If you don't = know what rune you're dealing with, bad things might happen. 'Are there forbidden Runes?' Yes, indeed. As any good Norseman knows, one cannot etch the symbol of = Odin the All-Father without incurring his wrath. Such runes might exist = somewhere, though, their effects powerful beyond imagining (artifacts), = but use them at your own peril! Other Immortals/Beings from Outer Planes = might have personal runes that they do not wish to see used by mortals. = Perhaps having a rune of Fymir the Frost Giant might give you some sort = of control over him, etc. There. I think I've ranted enough for now. Thanks for staying with me = till the end. I hope this is useful/informative. These are, of course, = all suggestions, and can be changed/massaged to have whatever meaning = you wish to give them. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:29:16 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote: >One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of >Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in >the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a >commoner. >Do I remember well? Yes, but this was far far before the word "sorcerer" came to mean a character class with innate magic feats. Ethan ******************************************************************** My point was the following: 1. The Secret Crafts can be learned by Mundaners (such as Jherek's wife), IIRC, and this is strict canon. Unless we suppose that Jherek's wife is a "natural" sorcerer and not a mundaner: but then, why doesn't she have any other sorcerous/magic ability at all? Just because she hasn't developed them yet? Quite uneven, given that her arcane potential is known to her husband and to herself, in a Country where magic abilities are never kept hidden for social esteem. 2. Consequently, the Crafts cannot be considered Prestige class for either Wizards or Sorcerors, since they are (potentially) accessible to mundaners. They seem to be, on the contrary, a totally different system of magic (not to mention the Radiance...). This leaves 2 roots open: 3. Either Jherek's wife is a mundaner, and then there could be plenty of different "ways" of magic on Mystara (such as Jacob's "Rune Magic" for instance), most of which are still unknown on Brun, 4. Or else Jherek's wife is a sorceress, and this leaves the new 3E class unmistakably open and "canonic" to Mystara. Any comments? Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 07:52:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 12:03:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: << I was thinking this: Need 10 ranks in an appropriate skill (Craft: Armorer, Craft: Weaponsmith, Craft: Bowyer, etc.) and the feat Craft Arms and Armor. This would allow the dwarf to endow weapons with plusses. >> Wouldn't it be easier just to give them an ability to create greater masterwork weapons that function as though they have higher pluses than the normal +1 most masterwork weapons have, such as a new feat or a special function of the Craft skill that only they can learn? That's just how I'd handle it. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:03:44 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ooof! Good ole 20th century...the only century arrogant enough to call itself "the modern age". I should note that people in history were surprisingly intelligent, despite not living in this century. Mild sarcasm aside (and honestly, I don't mean any offense and apologize if I have given any), real world governments figured out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques for their time. The trick is NOT trying to figure out if spy networks are realistic, its trying to figure out what sort of spy network is appropriate for the time. Unless you want to run a gag campaign, I would suggest not having a whole lot of fancy gnomish gizmoes (wrist sundials that are actually...whatever). My main point is, its not the COMPLEXITY that changes with age. ----- Original Message ----- From: Deirdre M. Brooks > SR Johnson wrote: > > > > Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge > > spy organization & network? > I should note that it took a *long* time for real world governments to > figure out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques. Not to > say they didn't have them, but agencies as effective as the CIA and the > KGB are a thing of the 20th century. > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:22:06 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Luca Toni Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed You can easily handle runic combination as 1 rune per power level, so 1st power lever runic spell is made by only one rune, a 2nd power level spell is made by 2 runes, etc. Try this base scheme, I think it's easy. It can fit your idea of using one rune for many spell (see Invisibility Rune example). Bye, Luca Toni P.S. I'm interested in helping you to build up this magic scheme. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:25:59 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Rune Magic Beau wrote: >>Lastly, as in the Northern Reaches Gazeteer, I thought of creating D&D3E >spells that allow non-RuneCasters to invoke runic magic through "divine" >spells. Though these priests will only be able to cast the most basic of >runes. Only RuneCasters can access the full power of runes. > > How many runes are there? If it's not a huge number, they could be >acquired as feats. That would be an interesting idea (allowing non-runecasters to use runes) - there is an article on the OD&DITIES website on runic magic, perhaps it might have some info you could use? The link is on Shawn's site. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:43:09 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" Andrew wrote: >Halfling KGB, anyone? Geoff- you listening to this? Could work in with your >"Dark Shires" plans... :) D'oh! The Dark Shires has been stamped, sealed, mapped, and sent off to Jenn for inclusion in the next Tome - but if Beau doesn't mind, I'd like to use that idea for my second spies article.... ;-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:45:23 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on George wrote: > >In my game system, which is not D&D but a home-grown system >called Borigon, the skill can be improved through game play by >any Hin (though this is at the cost of development in other areas). >The Hin Master is able to more easily increase their denial ability. Is Borigon available to all who ask for it, or is it strictly for your campaign? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:54:03 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies xenya wrote: >I should note that it took a *long* time for real world governments to >figure out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques. Not to >say they didn't have them, but agencies as effective as the CIA and the >KGB are a thing of the 20th century. True, but IIRC most governments throughout history had networks of informers, assassins, and enforcers of various types. Add in the element of magic in Mystara (which gives us those lovely biplanes in Serraine and other wacky inventions), and some of the more "modern" elements of espionage might become more feasible. All in good fun, of course, but your point is taken. >Like anything else, measure leads to countermeasure leads to new measures, etc. The end result is, if you want to use real world models, >not very fun for RPGs. :-) Unless of course some of your players like getting dirty in the underworld, backstabbing NPCs (or PCs) politically, and generally trying to out-manoeuvre their opponents in what is basically an oversized game of chess. :-) A group I play in on Saturdays becomes very political at times - we were playing a sort of dominion rulership game using Palladium RPG rules and my character was on the verge of having his immediate family assassinated to eliminate the political risk they posed. Good thing that campaign ended, though - paranoia is fun sometimes (even mandatory on occasion, the Computer says so), but too much paranoia is, well, bad for the imagination... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:01:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies Shawn Johnson wrote: > OK, I'll bite, what are these "Dark Shires" I've heard mention of before? Muhuhahahaha! Nothing less than the latest creation from my fevered imagination! More loathsome than the servitors of Yurrgh-Thal, more mind-warpingly evil than the Outer Beings, yet more saccharine than a kender (well, not quite, but I was on a roll). You thought the Hin were all sweetness and light? Those little cherubic demihumans have a dark secret - something they are loath to tell anyone except on dark nights in the local pub, while sipping on heady tankards of ale by a reassuring fireplace. More I cannot say, only that I tried to make it adaptable - you can insert it into any Mystara setting you wish (it won't upset your campaign even if you insert the Dark Shire into it). Find out when the next Tome comes out....and everyone who reads it, please let me know what you think! :-) > Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge >spy organization & network? If anyone doubts the likelyhood of this, think >about the RW. When countries have an excess of national wealth, inter- >national business interests, many pre-existing diplomatic posts, and an >overactive drive for self-preservation do they not tend to develop strong >spy organizations? [A Darokin spy network would have serious ramifica- >tions in Mystaran world happenings (understatement)!] Definitely! You can count on Darokin receiving some attention in my next spies article (should be out for Tome #6, I hope). Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:04:17 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff (and anyone else interested), Borigon is a system that I am developing and playtesting that will be freely available (at least for now) on the web. In the future I will offer both a plain hard copy version (for the price or reprinting) and a full-color bound version (for the price of reprinting and binding). The website is located at: http://borigon-online.homepage.com and my Mystara playtest site is located at: http://borigon-mystara.homepage.com I am trying to keep up with campaign updates, but I have just begun a major computer consulting project so my time is now cut to the bone. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on > George wrote: > > > >In my game system, which is not D&D but a home-grown system > >called Borigon, the skill can be improved through game play by > >any Hin (though this is at the cost of development in other areas). > >The Hin Master is able to more easily increase their denial ability. > > Is Borigon available to all who ask for it, or is it strictly for your > campaign? > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:07:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Note in Addendum: The game is fully developed, I just have yet to fully transcribe and polish my game notes and charts so they are readable. The version on the website is not the most current (I have added numerous examples and tightened the writing). What you will find on both sites is pretty good (IMHO). I have yet to finish writing up the nation-building, character-building, and combat information. These things represent the core of the game system. Let me know if you have any questions. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Gander" To: Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Hin Denial Ability (was Early thoughts on > George wrote: > > > >In my game system, which is not D&D but a home-grown system > >called Borigon, the skill can be improved through game play by > >any Hin (though this is at the cost of development in other areas). > >The Hin Master is able to more easily increase their denial ability. > > Is Borigon available to all who ask for it, or is it strictly for your > campaign? > > Geoff > > -- > Geoff Gander, BA 97 > Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon > Carnifex Loremaster > au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:10:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara Mike Harvey wrote: >Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? Not yet (my players have only been to Karameikos, Darokin, and Alfheim), but thus far I have one of the Alfheim clans (IIRC the one rumoured to be harbouring shadowelves - I'd need to check my notes) sheltering their subterranean cousins and actively trying to bring them back into the surface world. In Darokin, the Orclands are much more active - Fort Hobart is literally in a war zone, and isolated pockets of shadowleves live in the foothills of the Cruth Mountains - slowly regaining their place on the surface. I suppose one major change is that I'm not sure I will be running WotI, and even if I do, Alphatia will not sink; instead, I'll be using my alternate timeline in which civil war wracks that continent. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:18:05 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Lord Deldain wrote: > Though I'm not sure the exact reason, but I be it's because they wanted to > try to but a 'standard' cap on Prestige Classes at 10th level like they did > with normal classes at 20th level. I'm sure the high-level book will touch on > 10th+ level P-Classes. I don't think so. Prestige classes aren't 'real' classes. They are more like specialties. Since they are so specialized and IMHO, hard to get, the level limit should be fast. I consider Prestige Classes to be akin to ranks. If 1st level is Private, tenth level is general, and you can't be higher than that. Maybe I'm dumb. But the DMG isn't out so we don't know *exactly* how prestige classes work. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:40:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Darokin Spies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >In a message dated 8/24/00 2:08:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >xenya@TELEPORT.COM writes: > > > I should note that it took a *long* time for real world governments to > > figure out effective espionage and counterespionage techniques. Not to > > say they didn't have them, but agencies as effective as the CIA and the > > KGB are a thing of the 20th century. I forwarded this to one of my old Professors who consults for the CIA on occaision, and he replied that he laughed so hard he cried. Espionage has not changed that much in five hundred years. The technology allows for confirmation of HUMINT but it does not supplant it (combing satellite photos of siberia looking for SS's would take much to long.) The big difference in Intelligence gathering from two hundred years ago is that today there is a commercial Intelligence service that provides information to all other Intelligence services, It is the press. This would not be present in a fantasy campaign, as even if you could get copies of all the worlds newspapers, you would still need a way to transport them in analysts in a timely fashion. Intelligence organizations would be much less organized because central control can not be maintained without quick (and cheap!) communication. (It must be cheap because only 1% of the information is useful to anyone but you still need to pay for the other 99%.) Almost any Ambassador would maintain an Intelligence network in the country they are in (this is one of their jobs, to provide information), and to think that the DDC would train personnel specifically for this purpose is not an extreme concept. Just as a note, *1 see immediately below* Democracies and Capitalist countries are better at espionage because it permiates all of our political and economic activities, so we are naturals at getting information on our opposition. *1* At this point in my email I was called away to do actual work (the nerve of them).... I was to set standards for tracking and prempting our competition. >how >realistic is it for Darokin to have any manner of psuedo-democracy at all? >That too, is a more or less modern manifestation. Oh well, considering the Although, it would be very uncommon pre-1600 (when a large number of republican communities started to spring up)there are a few examples. In a sort of freaky way the most startling one is the Vatican, which elected its leader, from amoung a certain class of course. The Icelandic all-thing, The Republic of San Marino, the English Parlament, and the Netherlands are all examples of or had experiments in republicanism in the pre-United States Era. As for a Democracy, there are none in Mystara and there never have been any Democracies larger than what we would consider a small city in the real world. Now that I have Justified some of this stuff historically, I would like to point out we can use history as a model for our fantasy world but if we are to restrained by it we loose sight of the fantasy. I think for the most part all of us on the list would agree there were no Orcs in medieval europe (well excepting the English). Dylan R. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:13:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:29 8/24/00 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote: >My point was the following: > >1. The Secret Crafts can be learned by Mundaners (such as Jherek's wife), >IIRC, and this is strict canon. Unless we suppose that Jherek's wife is a >"natural" sorcerer and not a mundaner: but then, why doesn't she have any >other sorcerous/magic ability at all? Just because she hasn't developed them >yet? Quite uneven, given that her arcane potential is known to her husband >and to herself, in a Country where magic abilities are never kept hidden for >social esteem. > >2. Consequently, the Crafts cannot be considered Prestige class for either >Wizards or Sorcerors, since they are (potentially) accessible to mundaners. >They seem to be, on the contrary, a totally different system of magic (not >to mention the Radiance...). This leaves 2 roots open: > >3. Either Jherek's wife is a mundaner, and then there could be plenty of >different "ways" of magic on Mystara (such as Jacob's "Rune Magic" for >instance), most of which are still unknown on Brun, > >4. Or else Jherek's wife is a sorceress, and this leaves the new 3E class >unmistakably open and "canonic" to Mystara. > >Any comments? Oooor there's another option: They're prestige classes, but instead of being pegged to a certain level of arcane spellcasting ability, they're pegged to a certain level of Spellcraft skill. If Jherek's wife is schooled in arcane lore which apparently does NOT refer to spell-casting, that sounds exactly like Spellcraft. If it requires 10+ levels of Spellcraft, it will mean most characters capable of joining a craft are mid-to-high level wizards and sorcerers, since few rogues, for instance, will burn so many skill points on something that's of dubious value to them. Add in the roleplaying restrictions (have to be invited into a craft, and usually must be an alumnus or alumna of the GSoM) and you've still got a decent set of restrictions. Having said that, I'd only have restrictions this loose on the Dream craft; for the others, I'd still like to see more concrete restrictions (must know Animate Dead to get into the Necromancy craft, f'r instance). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:16:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: NPC: Visalios In-Reply-To: <002c01c00dd4$a6db6d80$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is the first NPC post in some time, as I've been busy with work, school, my internship and a new computer (which allows me to play old C-64 games on a great emulator! Woohoo!) As always, I hope you all enjoy it, and feel free to use the NPC in your campaign with whatever changes you want - any and all comments are appreciated, of course. Visalios History: Visalios was born in Phos 29 cycles ago. He was the son of two slaves and lived in that sad condition for 17 cycles. At that time, he and his parents were freed when their "master" passed on. Visalios, having believed he was destined for a life of slavery, did not adjust well to his new-found freedom. Having no marketable skills, he descended into the world of petty crime and lived for two years as a thief. One day, though, he happened to be in the central plaza of the town, and heard the preachings of a Tarastian cleric. He was moved by the conviction and holiness of the priest, and underwent a complete transition. Finding meaning to his life, he apprenticed himself to the Church of Tarastia in Phos, turning his back on his felonious past. He did not have the inner spark needed to become a priest, but did become a devout follower of the ways of the just immortal. At age 26, after 7 years of service he volunteered as an emissary to the Jennite tribes, in an attempt to develop bonds between the Tarastian followers of the two cultures. Personality: Visalios is a quiet man, his silence a blend of regret for past sins and the stealth and observation skills he learned as a thief. Witnessing the release of his family from captivity, as well as by his own transformation, his eyes have been opened so that he can see that everyone has redeeming qualities and can wind up seeing the light. This leads him to a less harsh code of justice than some Tarastians, instead supporting rehabilitative notions. Such views come from a contemplative outlook, not a sympathetic one - much of his innate human sensitivity was worn away by his years of slavery, theft and impartial study of law. Appearance: Wearing Milenian clothing helps Visalios stand out among the ranks of the Jennite horsefolk. At 5'4" and 110#, he is quite unimposing, an impression furthered by the lack of evident armaments. Neatness is not a virtue in his world, so his appearance tends to be dirty and disheveled a good chunk of the time. Combat Notes: He is a 1st-level rake. AC 8 (Leather, Dexterity Penalty); hp 3; at 1; d 1-4-1 (concealed dagger, strength penalty); save T1; ML 9; Al L; S 8, I 9, W 11, D 6, Co 13, Ch 8. Languages: Neathar, Milenian, Jennite, Lawful. General Skills: Mysticism (W), Stealth (City) (D), Codes of Law and Justice (W), one unused. DMing Notes: Visalios can help Jennite PCs get a better grasp of Milenian culture or can serve as the lead-in to Milenia for PCs first travelling through the Jennite Plains. On the other hand, strongly anti-Milenian residents of the plains could plot against him, necessitating protection. He is willing to come to the defense of those criminals who show remorse for their misdeeds and can help defend PCs either falsely or properly accused - or their enemies. This compassion has led to some anger from more punitive Tarastians, and the disagreements could erupt into conflict while the PCs are present. Milenian PCs heading east, especially those affiliated with the church of Tarastia, will gain the aide of Visalios, unless they seek to harm the Jennites or perpetrate some unjust deeds. Former victims of Visalios' theft may hunt him down, again necessitating protection. Also, upon returning home, he could lend a hand on behalf of the Kleonites, bringing a tribe of slavery-hating Jennites with him. - Mischa Masters too sometimes enter into particular combinations to sink the wages of labor even below this [actual] rate. These are always conducted with the utmost silence and secrecy, till the moment of execution, and when the workmen yield, as they sometimes do, without resistance, though severely felt by them, they are never heard of by other people. - Adam Smith ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:14:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <200008241343.JAA11109@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:43 8/24/00 -0400, Geoff Gander wrote: >Andrew wrote: > >>Halfling KGB, anyone? Geoff- you listening to this? Could work in with your >>"Dark Shires" plans... :) > >D'oh! The Dark Shires has been stamped, sealed, mapped, and sent off to >Jenn for inclusion in the next Tome - but if Beau doesn't mind, I'd like >to use that idea for my second spies article.... ;-) Go 'head. I suspect our visions of what the halfling agents are doing and how they do it will be very different! BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:08:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Church of Saimpt Joan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A week or two ago I posted my thoughts on how I will bring the plague into my Glantri campaign. I've worked some more on those ideas, and tying into the plague will be a religious sect based on worship of Joan Moorcroft, who was burned at the stake by the Flaemish in the 8th century AC. What follows are my ideas for the Church of Saimpt Joan, which will be a feature in my campaign. I hope this is of interest to the list, and feedback is welcome. :) ------------------------------------------ The Church of Saimpt Joan Joan Moorcroft has become a legend among the people of Fenswick. Despite her having been a cleric, she is remembered as a valiant hero and martyr by her countrymen, for her strength, courage, and devotion during the Forty Years War, in which the Fen people were caught between the warring armies of the Flaems and the settlers led by Halzunthram the Alphatian. Though historians outside of Fenswick have largely ignored or forgotten about her, Joan is well remembered in song and legend by all those living along the Fen River. It was in 784 AC that Joan rallied her people in defense of their land. Her furious valour made her both hated and feared by Flaem nobles, who had expected Fenswick to fall easily to their superior forces. Towards the end of that same year, Joan was captured by the Flaems and burned at the stake for the crime of practicing clerical magic. The Forty Years War raged on and Joan's younger brother Edward Moorcroft, whom she had cared for since he was a newborn child, began to seethe with hatred for what the Flaems had done to his beloved sister, and his homeland on the fens. Edward fought long and hard for his people, then disappeared in 813 AC during a summit between himself and the leaders of the Flaems and of the settlers, both of whom were eager to recruit Edward and the Fen people to their cause. Popular legend is vague on what happened at this meeting, but a wild storm of fire and magic is believed to have consumed all but Halzunthram, who barely escaped with his life. Edward was never seen again. This is where the tale of Joan Moorcroft ends, as the historians of Glantri know it - but there is more yet to the tale. What really occurred at the summit is as follows: Both the Flaems and the Alphatians had planned to betray and kill Edward should he decide not to ally with their particular side in the conflict. When it became clear to the assembled leaders that Edward intended to ally with neither of them, for he wished to keep his people out of the war, the Flaemish diplomat began to cast a fiery spell intended to kill all but himself and his party. However, Joan, now on the path to immortality (having been saved from her fiery death by Razud, her patrol immortal), intervened to save her brother. Tapping into the power of the sword of James Moorcroft (a lost artifact of the Fen people that the Flaemish leaders had brought along as a bargaining piece with Edward), Joan caused the spell to go awry. Enhanced by the magic of the sword, a torrent of magical flame engulfed the ! entire hillside. Protected by his semi-immortal sister, Edward survived the magical holocaust and was transported to his sister's side on another plane. Halzunthram managed to save himself and escape back to his army. Upon his return he wrote down an account of what happened - the only written record of the events of that day, and one he never shared with anyone. Some time later, around 900 AC Edward Moorcroft re-appeared on Mystara to a small group of people in Fenswick. He prophesied the return of the plague to Glantri, but promised that those who would follow the example of Joan would be saved from the worst of the plague as he himself was saved so long ago. Edward then vanished from Mystara once more, but promised to return when the people of Fenswick are in need, and call upon Joan to deliver them from the plague. Several of those present recorded Edward's prophecy, and these texts have since become the Holy Scriptures of the church of Saimpt Joan. Not long after, the scrolls written by Halzunthram concerning the events of the summit in 813 AC were discovered by an apostle of Joan, and have been copied and circulated among the growing ranks of the faithful as Holy Scripture as well. Since the time of Edward's prophecy, the Church of Joan has grown, slowly and quietly. At first it had followers only in the lands by the Fen River, but it has since spread to many points throughout Glantri. The Church operates as a secret society, and very few of the non-devout know of its existence. Though the church has been growing since the time of the prophecy, it is only in the last couple of years that some of the followers of Saimpt Joan have begun to receive clerical spells. The church believes this to be a sign that the plague will come soon. The atmosphere of the church is apocalyptic, and many of the followers spend their time studying the books of prophecy and watching the skies for signs. Though the Joanites are religious/clerical, the church has its roots among the Fen Witches, and talent for wizardry is encouraged among the devout. The heroic example set by Joan is central to the church, and the devout are encouraged to emulate her (i.e. bravery and courage in face of one's enemies or against overwhelming odds, martyrdom, and sacrifice). The church is distinctively prejudiced against the Flaems and their descendants in Glantri, as they are the ones who burned Joan at the stake. ------------------------------ [The rest of this is more specific to my own campaign, but it shows what I intend to do with the Church over the course of my game]------ ------------- When the plague does return to Glantri (1001-1002 AC IMC), the clerical powers of the Joanites will grow more powerful as the plague spreads. The Joanites will offer aid and succor to those suffering from the wasting sickness. With the temples of Rad seemingly unable to stem the tide of the sickness, many (especially among the common folk) will turn to the Joanites for help. The final defeat of Tybboch will be at the hands of Joan and her brother Edward. The sword of James Moorcroft must be recovered (by the players) and brought to the Church of Joan in Fenswick. Edward will appear and claim the weapon, and together with Joan will do immortal battle with Tybboch in the Nucleus of the Spheres. Edward will be killed in the battle, but the final blow from the sword will destroy Tybboch as well. Joan will then use the Nucleus of the Spheres to elevate herself to full-blown immortal status in the sphere of Energy. The defeat of Tybboch will also free Rad (Tybboch was able to spread his plague by infecting the NotS with his own body, which effectively corrupted it and imprisoned Rad with it). Though Rad will not be delighted with the idea of another immortal interfering with Glantri, he will owe a great debt to Joan for freeing him from Tybboch and restoring the Nucleus of the Spheres. By the time the plague ends, the Church of Joan will have become quite popular among the lay folk of Glantri, and may even have some followers among the ruling wizards. The Council will be forced to deal with the situation, and an historic vote will be held to determine whether the Church of Joan should be legalized, or forcibly disbanded. Many wizards are against allowing the Church to stay in Glantri, but when it comes time to vote Etienne D'Ambreville will support the church, and thus heavily influence the rest of the voting. Depending on the role the players have in all of this, the Church of Joan may become the only legal house of worship in Glantri (aside from the Temples of Rad), and Joanite clerics will be permitted to employ clerical magic. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:38:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 8:23:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << Having said that, I'd only have restrictions this loose on the Dream craft; for the others, I'd still like to see more concrete restrictions (must know Animate Dead to get into the Necromancy craft, f'r instance). >> I can't remember who said it, but I think the best restriction I've heard would be making it so player's must be invited into the Craft. I haven't really read up on the Crafts, but I'm sure they have some sort initiation process/test which they put members through. All you'd have to do is make that a requirement. It'd work really well with the idea of non-rule requirements that the article in Dragon 274 talks about. Perhaps it could be used in conjunction with the idea of having high ranks in Spellcraft and/or Knowledge (Aracana), however 10 in just one of the skills might be a little high as you'd have to be at least 7th level to join a Craft. I think maybe 8 ranks in one, or maybe both, would be more reasonable, knocking it down to about 5th level. Which is what the article in Dragon suggested as the lowest possible level a character should be to take a p-class anyway. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:19:37 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very cool ideas, but I just thought I'd use your same format to address my own ideas about how a user of Runes (for brevity's sake called a Runecaster from now on) might operate in 3E. I'd be most concerned about game balance first and then later add in the quasi-historical explanations about Why This Works This Way. In a message dated 8/24/00 6:01:18 AM Central Daylight Time, scythe@WANADOO.DK writes: > Decide you must. Would you prefer Create Rune (CR) and Activate Rune (AR) > Feats/Skills/Proficiencies/Gizmo-the-little-Mogwais or just Create Rune? If > you go with just CR, you would create a powerful character who could make ' > magic items' usable by anyone, where the level of effect depends on the > creator, not the user. If you go with AR, anybody could activate the rune, > but the effect would depend on the user's level (of AR). Good (and bad) > things could be said about either choice. I, personally, would go for the > latter. Personally, my vote is still for the Create Rune Feat which would essentially be a scroll with infinite charges but with several key differences and would be usable only be certain types of people (more on this later) > Here are some other considerations on runes: > 'Who can make a Rune?' I'd probably make it a prestige class, set the minimum spell levels able to cast at 5 and make it open to all spellcasters. There might be other requirements, such as being of Norse-like descent or having the blood of giants coursing through your veins, but essentially it would be open to all spellcasters and thereby allow more variety of effects by the nature of the spells that the various casters would be able to imbue into the runes. > 'How do you recognize if a Rune is working?' Well, of course detect magic would work as well as Spellcraft and perhaps Knowledge:Runes. > 'How do you identify a Rune?' See above, plus Identify and Legend Lore > 'Can a Rune be used up?' My personal preference might be that since Runes achieve a designated effect for a spellcaster that they use an equivalent spell level of the user's magic. So, if I had a Rune of Invisibility to utilize it I would activate it and lose a 2nd level spell slot for the day. This would make Runes useful, but balanced IMO by allowing the effect of magical effects to be "traded" through the Runes. For instance, a properly trained Wizard/Runecaster would be able to use a Rune Of Cure Light to heal the party, but he would be effectively be ditching a first level spell to do so. This would also prevent Bad Things like Runes of Imprisonment being used by lower level characters. > 'How many times can a Rune be used in a given interval of time, then?' With the above usage it would be defined by how many spell slots the caster has available to cast any given Rune. > 'How large is a Rune?' > Size matters not. The rune should be clearly visible, though. Larger runes > do not have greater effects. One could imagine, however, a candidate for > Immortality etching a giant rune across Vestland, by arranging villages/ > mountains/other landmarks into a rune (the exact type depending on preferred > Sphere; how about a giant 'Death' Rune affecting all of Vestland?). In this I am in complete agreement. Runes should be visible and thats about it. Of course, IMO having a Rune that covered acres of land might require exceptional steps to make the entire Rune visible to the Runecaster > 'What objects can be enscribed with Runes?' > Technically any object might be used. It is preferable to etch your runes on > a durable object, if you want them to last. RW vikings etched them on weapons, > armor, shields, ships, standing stones, above doorways, and many other > places. Just to make sure that players wouldn't be making these Runes and cutting them out of bars of soap I'd probably suggest that you still enforce the masterwork quality requirement if you go with the Create Rune Feat > 'Are there cursed Runes?' Well, I'd say a competent Runecaster could pretty much disguise a lot of ordinary trap spells as legitimate Runes and thereby make Very Bad Things happen to people he doesn't want handling his Runes. Also, I'd say an untrained Rune reader who is perhaps trying to utilize them with the Use Magic Device skill would suffer penalties if he/she isn't familiar with Runes (say, a Thyatian) and get stung with mishaps more often than not. I might even vote for a cruel use of "Empty" Runes, Runes that are designed specifically to look like other Runes but actually have no associated spell effect with them. Those would be used as normal, until the time the spell effect was supposed to go off- making the Runecaster spend spell slots into nothing. > 'Are there forbidden Runes?' > Yes, indeed. As any good Norseman knows, one cannot etch the symbol of Odin > the All-Father without incurring his wrath. Such runes might exist somewhere, > though, their effects powerful beyond imagining (artifacts), but use them at > your own peril! Other Immortals/Beings from Outer Planes might have personal > runes that they do not wish to see used by mortals. Perhaps having a rune of > Fymir the Frost Giant might give you some sort of control over him, etc. I might suggest this as a Create Greater Rune Feat, available in the prestige class at higher levels. Another Item Feat, this Rune would probably give certain classes of creatures or individuals penalties on their saves versus other Runes and maybe make your DC's for Scrying skill checks lower. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:37:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Prestige Classes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed As a game master who prefers to run at the 5th-10th level, I have been wondering about the Fifth Level Rule. I am working on concepts for the following Prestige Classes and some of them I would allow at earlier levels, but you would have to have at least one level before you entered the class. For those of you who can not guess, I am running a SC game. Bard of Bellayne - Basic Requirements: A spontaneous composition on a topic in a special compitetion - (Perform Skill DV30, up to +5 for player creativity) Inheritor - Got to work on this Defender - I am getting rid of the Paladin and the Defender will be my Paladins Honorbound - Got to work on this Gaucho - Ride, Mounted Combat, Lasso or Bola, Pistol, Dexterity 11, own horse. Swashbuckler - Basic Requirements: Dexterity 13+; Weapons Finesse: Rapier, Saber, or Small Sword; and choose three of the following Expertise, Ambidexterity, Evasion, +3 Basic Attack, Weapon Profincy:Hat or Cloak, Two Weapon Attack. Swashbuckler would then gain access to some tumbling, and feats based on fencing maneuvers in the SC book. Sailor - Swim, Strength 12, Dexterity 12,Alertness, Endurance Inquisitor - +2 basic Attack, Torture etc, etc, etc. Soldier - Basic Requirements: Depends on the Company but Basic Requirements: Armor Profiency, +1 Basic Attack Bonus, Proper Weapon Profiencies. Requirements for the Renardois Kings Horseguard: 1 Level in another Company, 1 Level of Swashbuckler, Profincies: Saber, Rapier, Hand Pistol, Riding Skill, Mounted Combat, +5 Basic Attack Bonus (this is a Black Musketeers-style company) and a couple of others The basic Soldier or Sailor class and Swashbuckler I will make available at lower levels because I tend to run at lower levels Dylan R ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:41:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lord Deldain wrote: > jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > << I was thinking this: Need 10 ranks in an appropriate skill > (Craft: Armorer, Craft: Weaponsmith, Craft: Bowyer, etc.) and > the feat Craft Arms and Armor. This would allow the dwarf to > endow weapons with plusses. >> > > Wouldn't it be easier just to give them an ability to create > greater masterwork weapons that function as though they have > higher pluses than the normal +1 most masterwork weapons have, > such as a new feat or a special function of the Craft skill > that only they can learn? That's just how I'd handle it. Hmm, I kind of like that. Maybe a new feat like "Great Masterwork" or "Improved Masterwork" which is based on a skill (like the Tracking feat). It seems to me that dwarves also out to be able to create "enchanted stone walls" and similar craft-related things. This is a very common thing in stories: a gate or castle wall that was craft by the dwarves and which is proof against any spell, or whatever. This could be handled as a sort of "masterwork stone" or something, and would make dwarven engineers in great demand for castle work -- especially in a D&D world, where castles must withstand magical assaults. What sort of properties might such a wall have? Maybe it as some sort of "save vs magic" equal to the skill of the dwarf who made it; it might also have other effects such as being impervious to nonmagical siege weapons, granting some sort of protection to the defenders, resisting scrying, etc. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:00:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Scaring your players MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Andrew Theisen wrote > Geoff wrote: >> Was that an "official" artifact, or something from your >> campaign? If the latter, could you share it with us? :-) >> >> Geoff, looking for another excuse to scare his players.... > > Yeah, it was something I made up, based around legends of the > Celtic Wild Hunt, and also loosely inspired by Herne the > Huntsman from (book 12?) of the Wild Cards novels. Okay, now you've got to go to http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/45/zakas.html and listen to the song "Hounds of the Horn". It's about a battle with the Hounds of Cernunnos and is based on the Chronicles of Corum by Moorcock. While it's listed as 'Gothic Metal' it's really more of an creepy spoken type of piece, that sounds like he's reading directly from the book. Now I'm eager to write up the hounds and set up an encounter; using this as background music should set an appropriately horrific mood. :-) Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:38:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Daly wrote: > > Ooof! Good ole 20th century...the only century arrogant enough to call > itself "the modern age". > > I should note that people in history were surprisingly intelligent, despite > not living in this century. I didn't say they were stupid, just not as developed in some areas. :-) > Mild sarcasm aside (and honestly, I don't mean any offense and apologize if > I have given any), real world governments figured out effective espionage > and counterespionage techniques for their time. The trick is NOT trying to > figure out if spy networks are realistic, its trying to figure out what sort > of spy network is appropriate for the time. Unless you want to run a gag > campaign, I would suggest not having a whole lot of fancy gnomish gizmoes > (wrist sundials that are actually...whatever). My main point is, its not > the COMPLEXITY that changes with age. I didn't say that it shouldn't be done, or that it should be realistic, I said "this is fantasy, so anything you want goes." -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:01:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 14:37 08/24/2000 EDT, Dylan Rickards wrote: >As a game master who prefers to run at the 5th-10th level, I have been >wondering about the Fifth Level Rule. I am working on concepts for the >following Prestige Classes and some of them I would allow at earlier levels, >but you would have to have at least one level before you entered the class. >For those of you who can not guess, I am running a SC game. Most of these sound like they'd be handled just fine with feats or skills and don't need prestige classes. >Bard of Bellayne - Basic Requirements: A spontaneous composition on a topic >in a special compitetion - (Perform Skill DV30, up to +5 for player >creativity) What makes them different than other bards? >Gaucho - Ride, Mounted Combat, Lasso or Bola, Pistol, Dexterity 11, own >horse. What benefits would they get? Couldn't they be duplicated with feats? >Swashbuckler - Basic Requirements: Dexterity 13+; Weapons Finesse: Rapier, >Saber, or Small Sword; and choose three of the following Expertise, >Ambidexterity, Evasion, +3 Basic Attack, Weapon Profincy:Hat or Cloak, Two >Weapon Attack. >Swashbuckler would then gain access to some tumbling, and feats based on >fencing maneuvers in the SC book. Check the new "Dragon," too, for their Duelist. But again, couldn't you just make the fencing maneuvers into feats (the ones that aren't already) and require that people go to a fencing instructor to learn them? >Sailor - Swim, Strength 12, Dexterity 12,Alertness, Endurance Aren't those just a set of skills and feats? >Soldier - Basic Requirements: Depends on the Company but Basic Requirements: >Armor Profiency, +1 Basic Attack Bonus, Proper Weapon Profiencies. >Requirements for the Renardois Kings Horseguard: 1 Level in another Company, >1 Level of Swashbuckler, Profincies: Saber, Rapier, Hand Pistol, Riding >Skill, Mounted Combat, +5 Basic Attack Bonus (this is a Black >Musketeers-style company) What differentiates them from being a subset of fighters? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:26:31 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on converting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SteelAngel meandered fecklessly... > I don't think so. Prestige classes aren't 'real' classes. They are more > like specialties. Since they are so specialized and IMHO, hard to get, the > level limit should be fast. > > I consider Prestige Classes to be akin to ranks. If 1st level is Private, > tenth level is general, and you can't be higher than that. Maybe I'm dumb. > But the DMG isn't out so we don't know *exactly* how prestige classes > work. I have access to the prestige classes, and I would say that "specialty" is the key word. Each prestige class specializes in a concept, for the most part, and because of this there is only so much range available. They focus on a small set of abilities, and thus improve them more quickly, over fewer levels. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:49:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Revisionist Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Has anyone else has totally rewritten large chunks of Mystara? > more the events than the nations themselves. i had glantri make huge use of the seven secret crafts to gather magical armies(undead,elementals,dragons,constructs etc.) and make deals with various groups, (the canine protection guild, monster hunters/handlers etc.) to add large numbers of monsters to their army, morphail also ordered thar to make his forces available. then began a war to conquer the known world.it was a long and bloody war. most cities were razed. many important characters were killed in action or executed after the war.my reason was the campaign was coming to an end and i wanted it to close with a bang. during the war each of the characters - all minor nobles, sons of princes ,counts barons and such- all rose to become generals. we used the map from red arrow black shield, it was fun, the campaign actually lasted for another year, which hadn't been planned for.the characters were made princes in conquered lands, and had the task of rebuilding their countries in the glantrian ideal. the five realms they ruled formed a kind of U.N. force between them and set up an order of knights called the pentagrate knights. each branch swore fealty to a prince, but to the pentagrate first.their main purpose was to protect the pentagrate from internal and external attacks, they were never used to invade. this order had just been set up when the campaign did end :-( it was never meant to in the first place, it's just that we spread around the country, and games became impossible. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:52:24 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge spy organization & network? If anyone doubts the likelyhood of this, think about the RW. When countries have an excess of national wealth, inter- national business interests, many pre-existing diplomatic posts, and an overactive drive for self-preservation do they not tend to develop strong spy organizations? [A Darokin spy network would have serious ramifica- tions in Mystaran world happenings (understatement)!] —Shawn J. doesn't the D.D.C fill this role? mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:13:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 16:51 8/23/00 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote: > >One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of > >Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in > >the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a > >commoner. > >Do I remember well? > This is wrong. Lan-Syn is the only wife of Prince Jherek's who is a member of the Secret Craft of Illusionism(or Dream Magic) and she is a wizard in both GAZ3 and the GKoM boxed set. It even specifically states in GAZ3 that she is the only legal heir of Prince Jherek, because she is a wizard. Now in GAZ3 Frau Hildegarde was listed as a fighter and a member of the secret craft of Earth Elementalists, but this error was corrected in GKOM, where she is listed as a wizard. There are no canon references to a non-mage entering a secret craft. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:38:22 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Secret Crafts and 3E Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Federico Kaftal wrote: > 3. Either Jherek's wife is a mundaner, and then there could be plenty = of > different "ways" of magic on Mystara (such as Jacob's "Rune Magic" for > instance), most of which are still unknown on Brun, I thank you for billing Rune Magic to me, but in all fairness it was = Joaquin aka Darth Darknerd who came up with the = subject, and wanted to realize it. I was merely making suggestions on = how it could work. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:44:59 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Luca Toni wrote: > You can easily handle runic combination as 1 rune per power level, so = 1st > power lever runic spell is made by only one rune, a 2nd power level = spell is > made by 2 runes, etc. >=20 > Try this base scheme, I think it's easy. It can fit your idea of using = one > rune for many spell (see Invisibility Rune example). Ooohhh, I forgot that one: 'How many Runes can you enscribe on a given object?' IIRC RW vikings never had more than one rune on a given object. The = power could not be combined. It would also be too powerful if you could = combine effects of several runes. The concept is that everything can be = represented by a single rune, which has a specific meaning. That meaning = could be interpreted to represent different aspects or varying degrees = (such as Invisibility), but could never be combined with another rune, = since that would spoil the 'essence' of the first rune. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:19:28 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Heard wrote: > Very cool ideas, but I just thought I'd use your same format to = address my > own ideas about how a user of Runes (for brevity's sake called a = Runecaster > from now on) might operate in 3E. I'd be most concerned about game = balance > first and then later add in the quasi-historical explanations about = Why This > Works This Way. I thank you for the praise. Since I am in no way interested in investing = in 3rd ed., I would never be the one to consider game balance for 3rd = ed. Good thing there are others who can figure that out. I am concerned = with WTWTW, flavor, and basic concepts. > > Here are some other considerations on runes: > > 'Who can make a Rune?' >=20 > I'd probably make it a prestige class, set the minimum spell levels = able to > cast at 5 and make it open to all spellcasters. There might be other > requirements, such as being of Norse-like descent or having the blood = of > giants coursing through your veins, but essentially it would be open = to all > spellcasters and thereby allow more variety of effects by the nature = of the > spells that the various casters would be able to imbue into the runes. An excellent suggestion. The rules aspect, as I said, I can't work out. = The point here is that anybody can make a rune, but only the = RuneCaster/HelleRister can make a working, magical rune. =20 > > 'How do you recognize if a Rune is working?' >=20 > Well, of course detect magic would work as well as Spellcraft and = perhaps > Knowledge:Runes. Yes, that would definitely work for me. > > 'How do you identify a Rune?' >=20 > See above, plus Identify and Legend Lore Knowledge:Runes, agreed, but hardly detect magic or spellcraft. Runes = are supposed to be specific entities, not generally known to any = practitioner of magic. Identify and Legend Lore, definitely. =20 > > 'Can a Rune be used up?' >=20 > My personal preference might be that since Runes achieve a designated = effect > for a spellcaster that they use an equivalent spell level of the = user's > magic. So, if I had a Rune of Invisibility to utilize it I would = activate it > and lose a 2nd level spell slot for the day. This would make Runes = useful, > but balanced IMO by allowing the effect of magical effects to be = "traded" > through the Runes. For instance, a properly trained Wizard/Runecaster = would > be able to use a Rune Of Cure Light to heal the party, but he would be > effectively be ditching a first level spell to do so. This would also = prevent > Bad Things like Runes of Imprisonment being used by lower level = characters. I see your point. I just think that the idea of runes having different = potential according to your expertise in using them is so very cool! The = Rune of Imprisonment wouldn't do much for you if you were a low-level = user, and only had access to 'restricitng the movement rate of a single = being', for example. And it would, at the same time, limit the number of = runes. No Rune of Cure Light, Cure Moderate, Cure Serious, Cure etc., = but a Rune of Curing. This would be much to my preference. =20 > > 'How many times can a Rune be used in a given interval of time, = then?' >=20 > With the above usage it would be defined by how many spell slots the = caster > has available to cast any given Rune. Works for me. If you activated the second level of the Invisibility = Rune, you would lose a 2nd-level spell. I realize this seems unbalanced, = since you only need a single rune for any number of effects, but you are = limited by the number of runes you can carry, depending on their size. = And a rune could easily be destroyed or lost if you're carrying a number = of them. Not as problematic as losing a spell book, but still annoying, = since it definitely takes some time (and a skill check) to make a new = rune. =20 > > 'What objects can be enscribed with Runes?' > > Technically any object might be used. It is preferable to etch your = runes on > > a durable object, if you want them to last. RW vikings etched them = on weapons, > > armor, shields, ships, standing stones, above doorways, and many = other > > places. >=20 > Just to make sure that players wouldn't be making these Runes and = cutting > them out of bars of soap I'd probably suggest that you still enforce = the > masterwork quality requirement if you go with the Create Rune Feat I don't have a problem with bars of soap. Not the most durable of = objects. It is the quality of the rune, not the quality of the item. Of = course, any item that can't hold the shape of the rune, ruins it's power = in no time. Carrying around your soap runes in rainy weather isn't going = to do much for you (but at least, you've got clean hands :) ). = Seriously, anybody who spends the time needed to make an effective power = rune would prefer to use a durable object, anyway. =20 > > 'Are there cursed Runes?' >=20 > Well, I'd say a competent Runecaster could pretty much disguise a lot = of > ordinary trap spells as legitimate Runes and thereby make Very Bad = Things > happen to people he doesn't want handling his Runes. Also, I'd say an > untrained Rune reader who is perhaps trying to utilize them with the = Use > Magic Device skill would suffer penalties if he/she isn't familiar = with Runes > (say, a Thyatian) and get stung with mishaps more often than not. I = might > even vote for a cruel use of "Empty" Runes, Runes that are designed > specifically to look like other Runes but actually have no associated = spell > effect with them. Those would be used as normal, until the time the = spell > effect was supposed to go off- making the Runecaster spend spell slots = into > nothing. Ahh, I like your style! These are all excellent suggestions. Handle = runes with care! And don't handle mine! (That came out sounding a lot = dirtier than intended...) =20 > > 'Are there forbidden Runes?' >=20 > I might suggest this as a Create Greater Rune Feat, available in the = prestige > class at higher levels. Another Item Feat, this Rune would probably = give > certain classes of creatures or individuals penalties on their saves = versus > other Runes and maybe make your DC's for Scrying skill checks lower. Yes, well, the idea of these runes are, in the first place, that they = should be nearly impossible to make or obtain. First of all you need to = know the rune associated with a given being. This is in itself no easy = feat (no, not that kind of Feat!). Then, you need to etch it without = attracting the attention of the given being. If we're talking the Rune = of Odin, you can be sure that he can somehow sense when people try to = make an item with his rune. Then there's the inherent danger of actually = using them. It's like summoning some Outer Plane horror, perhaps you can = control it, perhaps not. If you can't, you better be prepared to pay the = price! Game mechanics to be worked out some day...perhaps... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:19:49 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: [GLANTRI] The Plague Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have just returned from a fake vacation, and this idea is really lovable. I like it. I love it. Have you ever thought to get in the plot the Wyrmteeth nation I developed (it's found at Stan's). There are werewolves and dwarves there, allied with weres and dwarves of Averoigne, so... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:19:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Squeezing your players for cash MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Albert Edward Capt 552 CSG/SCXX ha scritto: > > Perhaps all the gold coins a party collected from a hoard are actually gold > plated lead. Merchants love it when they get paid in lead. This really make me laugh. > Don't give the party things like bags of holding. Then enforce encumbrance > rules. This will get them to leave lesser value coins behind in favor of > higher value ones. Then have the Inn Keeper say "I'm sorry, I can't make > change for a platinum" And this too. But I knew the guy had sense of humour. He is a Captain, after all. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:53:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Prestige Classes Consistancy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was pondering on the similarities and differences between oD&D and D&D3E set of rules in regards to "prestige classes". In the "green box" set, there were a set of classes than could only be acquired at a later level. I know two of these were druid and avenger, and I believe paladin was there as well. My memory is vague on this and I have since then misplaced my set of rules buried under a tome of books. These types of classes are similar to "prestige" classes. I was wondering for the sake of consistency, perhaps paladins, druids, and other classes should be made prestige classes. Imagine that a character has to qualify to become a paladin firsthand, rather than just become a paladin at first level. It is sort of like achieving knighthood, except this is solely through the church. This adds plot development and allows the character to grow. Also, it instills some real-world like culture, where one must prove one's worthiness, to achieve such a status, and in fantasy, to achieve the powers granted as well. Druids can be the same way in this manner. One must be invited into the fold before the truth is revealed. HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:07:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was rather disapointed with what was on Eric Noah's site. However, I will reprint what was on that site and let the audience here be the judge. My personal opinion is that this is weak at best. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Vikings Campaign Sourcebook This is not a conversion of the whole book, it is only a conversion of the Runecaster class. Product Number: 9322 Year Published: 1991 Converted from 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition D&D by Bjxrn Arnesen, barnesen@provide.net Last Updated: 24 August, 2000 Summary of Conversion: Rephrased class abilities in 3E format. Explainations of which abilities are important to them and why have been added. Removed ability requirements. Saving throws allowed by runes have been changed to the 3E format. Advisory Note: Runecasters should be restricted to Viking and Viking-like settings or planar adventuring and spelljamming, where one is likely to meet a wide variety of people. The Runecaster is a variation on the Fighter class. Abilities: Strength is important to Runecasters in order to do well in combat. Intelligence is important to increase their chances of learning another rune. Wisdom is important for it is the key ability for checking that a rune was made correctly. Alignment: Any Hit Die: d10 Weapons and Armor: Runecasters are proficient with all Simple and Martial Weapons. They are also proficient with all types of armor, and with shields. Attack Bonus and Saving Throws: Runecasters use the same tables as Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins and Rangers. Runecasting: This is the sole special ability of the runecaster, even so, it is sometimes a potent one. Runes that needed to be altered If information about a rune doesn t appear, that rune doesn t need to change, or the information of that rune that is missing didn t need to change. o Berserk-Rune: +1 to melee attack adjustment. o Catch-Rune: The save to catch the weapon is Reflex. DC is weapon dependent. o Charm-Rune: The saving throw is Will. o Disease-Rune: The saving throw is Fortitude. o Help-Rune: The saving throw is Fortitude. o Iron-Can t-Bite-Rune: Terminology changed to damage reduction. o Nip-Rune: The saving throw is Fortitude. o Triumph-Rune: +1 to melee attack adjustment. o Water-Rune: +1 to Fortitude saves, damage reduction. -------------------------------------------------------------------- --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:19:43 Jacob Skytte wrote: >Beau wrote: > >> The Runecaster? I believe there's a 3E conversion up at Eric Noah's site >> right now. > >All right, Joaquin; the first thing you gotta do, is check out what that is about, before going any further. If this Runecaster is totally inconsistent with what you had imagined, get a new name for the class/prestige class/feat/what-have-you and take it from there! > >BTW I managed to dig up my GAZ 7, but the Vikings Sourcebook seems lost to the ages. I'm afraid one of my former players borrowed it once, and 'forgot' to return it (hey, that's what happened to my B1-9 In Search of Adventure, my Ruins of Adventure, and my Desert of Desolation books! So far I've managed to only get the last one back). I did manage to find my Mighty Fortress Sourcebook and the Book of Marvelous Magic lying about. Sigh. Too much stuff in too little space. > >Jacob Skytte >scythe@wanadoo.dk > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:10:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As per other comments, power runes like these consisted of only one rune. I beleive this to be true and both Norther Reaches Gazeteer and Viking Sourcebook presents rune description in this style. There is a thing for runic letters, but this was the early alphabet used during viking times. This was different. --- How many boards, can the Ethengars hoard, if the Ethengar horde got bored? On Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:22:06 Luca Toni wrote: >You can easily handle runic combination as 1 rune per power level, so 1st >power lever runic spell is made by only one rune, a 2nd power level spell is >made by 2 runes, etc. > >Try this base scheme, I think it's easy. It can fit your idea of using one >rune for many spell (see Invisibility Rune example). > >Bye, Luca Toni > >P.S. I'm interested in helping you to build up this magic scheme. >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:18:36 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Prestige Classes Consistancy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 5:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, darknerd@HOTBOT.COM writes: << I was wondering for the sake of consistency, perhaps paladins, druids, and other classes should be made prestige classes. >> It's a definate possibility. Since the Anti-paladin (can't think of the new name) is going to be a p-class, it might make for a Paladin to be. My reasons for keeping Paladins, Druids, etc., as normal classes is that they are general enough to stay the way they are. I think p-classes should be very specialized, such as the Dwarven Defender, Duelist or Arcane Archer p-classes are. Not so general that they are basically professions, like kits were, but specialized enough that they desever their own feats, special powers, spells, and so on, such as an Elementalist or a Dragon Slayer. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:17:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: <98.94c4773.26d6667d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:52 AM 8/24/00 EDT, you wrote: > >Wouldn't it be easier just to give them an ability to create greater >masterwork weapons that function as though they have higher pluses than the >normal +1 most masterwork weapons have, such as a new feat or a special >function of the Craft skill that only they can learn? That's just how I'd >handle it. Why would that be easier? Using a feat that already exists seems simpler to me, not to mention the fact that Masterwork items, though they may add plusses, are not magical, and thus cannot affect creatures with Damage Resistances of +1 or higher. Dwarves (at least in the Gaz, and in legend) are able to create magical weapons, not simply really high quality normal items. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:22:33 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Rune Magic Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FEATS vs RUNE CASTER I thought about this. I will indeed create some feats that alchemy type feats for creating potions. At some point I wish to create an alchemist class which expands upon this. I think that I would have to create the basic feats and then expand upon this with the Rune Caster. There will also be "divine" spells used in creation of runes. The reason for this is that I wish to use the ideas already existing in Northern Reaches Gazetteer. I would update their spells to D&D3E. However, I want to keep in mind that RuneCaster are able to access the most powerful runes and use runes at a higher frequency. The Create Rune and Activate Rune feats as well as divine spells should be limited in some way as to make it desirable to role-play a Rune Caster. This would be similar to the Alchemist. The Alchemist should have advantages to create and use potions (more powerful or potent, and at a higher frequency). He would be slinging out potions, swallowing pills, through powder, or grenades, etc. instead of using spells. The rune caster, would prepare runes before the battle where they take affect. DURATION of RUNES To be historically consistent, or even consistent with prior rune systems, runes should be permanent. However, this might cause an imbalance in the rule/campaign system. Perhaps they should be temporary. However, there should be a way to make them permanent. NUMBER OF RUNES As they are like spells, there should be a large number of runes. From all of this, I should create a list of what spells can be used as runes, and any necessary supplementary material. Also, I should create a list of rune specific magic consisting of runes from my own creation, other's ideas, GAZ7 Northern Reaches Gazetteer's runes, and Viking Sourcebook's runes. [snip] >> How many runes are there? If it's not a huge number, they could be >>acquired as feats. > >That would be an interesting idea (allowing non-runecasters to use runes) >- there is an article on the OD&DITIES website on runic magic, perhaps it >might have some info you could use? The link is on Shawn's site. > >Geoff [snip] HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:32:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [OT] Dwarves and magic weapons (was 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 5:25:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: << Why would that be easier? Using a feat that already exists seems simpler to me, not to mention the fact that Masterwork items, though they may add plusses, are not magical, and thus cannot affect creatures with Damage Resistances of +1 or higher. Dwarves (at least in the Gaz, and in legend) are able to create magical weapons, not simply really high quality normal items. >> Like I said, that's just how I'd handle it. I would say the high-quality items aren't normal per se, since they way I see dwarves crafting 'magical' weapons is through their incredible skill and not through magic means. Which, would fall into the realm of the Item Creation feats, IMO. Thus I would rather give them the an ability to create special masterwork weapons and armor that as a racial ability, for all system-based purposes, would function as if they were created by the Item Creation feat, but the weapon or armor created would not be truly magical because it's power comes from how well it is crafted not from being imbued with magical properties. The other reason, is because I don't have any of the Gazetteers and thus don't go by the rules presented in them. And as for legendary ties, wouldn't a handgun be seen as 'magical' by those who don't understand it? This is how I see it working for dwarven crafted items. They seem magical, simply because they are so well-built that they are as powerful, in regards to +'s, as their magical equivilants. Just my view on the subject. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:30:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Magic) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-24 7:35:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > My point was the following: > > 1. The Secret Crafts can be learned by Mundaners (such as Jherek's wife), > IIRC, and this is strict canon. Unless we suppose that Jherek's wife is a > "natural" sorcerer and not a mundaner: but then, why doesn't she have any > other sorcerous/magic ability at all? Just because she hasn't developed them > yet? Quite uneven, given that her arcane potential is known to her husband > and to herself, in a Country where magic abilities are never kept hidden for > social esteem. Actually, with the exception of an obvious typo in Gaz 3 (in regard to Prince Jaggar's mother), there are no known cases of a non-Wizard learning any of the Secret Crafts. Jherek's wife is stated to be a Wizard in both Gaz 3 and GKoM. And it is fairly easy to fit the three 3E arcane spellcasting classes into the Glantrian social structure: Wizard: Wizards rule -- literally. Wizards have set things up in Glantri so that only members of that class have any chance to learn how to tap into the Radiance, learn a Secret Craft, or pass the magical courses given at the Great School of Magic. Bard: With the banning of Clerics, Bards filled their niche. The Shepherds of Rad are generally Bards, and Glantrian adventuring parties generally include Bards to take care of their magical healing needs. As the Glantrian equivalent of "clergy", they rank just above common "gents" but below the nobility. Sorcerer: These natural talents are accepted as "gents" but generally find their social advancement blocked by the rules set up by the Wizards. Many of them join the army in the hope of gaining noble rank through the only avenue that the Wizards have left open to them: heroic service. Multi-classing: We probably don't need to worry about multi-classed arcane spellcasters, since such multi-classing is generally a bad idea from a power player's point of view. However, given that the talent for any form of arcane magic is relatively rare among Mystarans, it might be a good idea to adopt a setting-specific rule that forbids multi-classing among these three classes. However, if such multi-classing is permitted, Bards and Sorcerers would remain at a disadvantage. Bards who have joined the Shepherds of Rad would remain "clergy" and thus not permitted to abandon their calling for the chance to join the nobility. Sorcerers would get the full benefit of their Wizard training but would not be able to apply any of their Sorcerer abilities or levels towards accessing those areas that the Wizards of Glantri reserved for themselves. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:25:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Dark Shires/Darokin Spies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-24 1:44:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > Also, has it occurred to anyone else that Darokin should have a huge > spy organization & network? If anyone doubts the likelyhood of this, think > about the RW. When countries have an excess of national wealth, inter- > national business interests, many pre-existing diplomatic posts, and an > overactive drive for self-preservation do they not tend to develop strong > spy organizations? [A Darokin spy network would have serious ramifica- > tions in Mystaran world happenings (understatement)!] There are two aspects of espionage that would be relevant here: 1) Intelligence gathering. Darokinian diplomats would carry out that function as part of their job -- although they would be very careful not to be caught with incriminating written evidence of their activities in nations such as Thyatis which might take a dim view of such activities. But Darokinians know that the information they can pick up by a casual walk down the main street of a capital city is in many cases every bit as useful (not to mention safer to acquire) as purloined papers stolen away by questionable and risky means. 2) Covert operations. Darokinian diplomats would never dirty their hands with such business (especially given the diplomatic ramifications of being caught). Instead, they would hire adventurers for that purpose, pay them well (outside the country where the operation took place) if they carried their mission out well but disavowing all knowledge of their activities if they are caught or killed. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:25:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-24 3:03:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > I was thinking this: Need 10 ranks in an appropriate skill (Craft: Armorer, > Craft: Weaponsmith, Craft: Bowyer, etc.) and the feat Craft Arms and Armor. > This would allow the dwarf to endow weapons with plusses. Maybe we could count Craft ranks and/or character levels of a Dwarf as an alternative to spellcasting level in the prerequisites for the feat? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:25:22 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Elven Sorcery (was "Mystaran Sorcery") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-24 1:44:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > I guess I must be off my rocker since no one else seems to know what > I'm talking about, but I coulda sworn there was something somewhere > suggesting that some humans have the biological capacity to learn > magic and others don't. Oh well. I have no idea which book I think > it's in, so I can't just go check. The idea wasn't that it gives you > that ability for free, but that you'd still have to be a researcher > to tap into it. If there is no such thing going, please ignore my > mention of wizardly blood and homo magicus or whatever. Thanks :) No, both DotE and Gaz 3 make mention of various people having or lacking the talent for wizardly magic. Alphatians have a slightly higher proportion of their population with this talent (perhaps 10% vs. 5% -- I forget the exact numbers), but in general most Mystaran humans lack the talent for any sort of arcane spell use, as do all (or nearly all) Dwarves and Halflings. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:25:26 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-24 12:03:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > But anyway, perhaps some races should have favored p-classes as well as > normal classes? Something to think about... Not needed. All prestige classes count as "preferred". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:42:16 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Magic) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:30 8/24/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >And it is fairly easy to fit the three 3E arcane spellcasting classes into >the Glantrian social structure: > >Wizard: Wizards rule -- literally. Wizards have set things up in Glantri >so that only members of that class have any chance to learn how to tap >into the Radiance, learn a Secret Craft, or pass the magical courses >given at the Great School of Magic. I'd argue that the wizards didn't set up anything with the Radiance. It just IS and it happens to be easily tapped into by arcane spellcasters only. >Bard: With the banning of Clerics, Bards filled their niche. The Shepherds >of Rad are generally Bards, and Glantrian adventuring parties generally >include Bards to take care of their magical healing needs. As the Glantrian >equivalent of "clergy", they rank just above common "gents" but below the >nobility. Score one for David! This is a great idea. Good call. >Sorcerer: These natural talents are accepted as "gents" but generally >find their social advancement blocked by the rules set up by the Wizards. >Many of them join the army in the hope of gaining noble rank through the >only avenue that the Wizards have left open to them: heroic service. Eh. I still don't see this as a real category in Glantri. This is childrens' magic, or perhaps a byproduct of the Radiance. >Multi-classing: We probably don't need to worry about multi-classed >arcane spellcasters, since such multi-classing is generally a bad idea >from a power player's point of view. However, given that the talent for >any form of arcane magic is relatively rare among Mystarans, it might >be a good idea to adopt a setting-specific rule that forbids multi-classing >among these three classes. I'm not in favor of any rules against multiclassing. Thus von Drachenfels could have a few levels of fighter along with his wizardry, which fits his personality to a T. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:55:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Mag... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 1:17:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > I'd argue that the wizards didn't set up anything with the Radiance. > It just IS and it happens to be easily tapped into by arcane spellcasters only. But it must be researched -- and even most Wizards fail to learn what they need to know in order to tap into it. I was figuring that the inability of non-Wizards to do that sort of research was what stopped them from learning about the Radiance. > >Multi-classing: We probably don't need to worry about multi-classed > >arcane spellcasters, since such multi-classing is generally a bad idea > >from a power player's point of view. However, given that the talent for > >any form of arcane magic is relatively rare among Mystarans, it might > >be a good idea to adopt a setting-specific rule that forbids multi-classing > >among these three classes. > > I'm not in favor of any rules against multiclassing. Thus von Drachenfels > could have a few levels of fighter along with his wizardry, which fits his > personality to a T. I should have been clearer on that point. What I wanted to ban were combinations of arcane spellcasting classes -- specifically, Bard/Wizards, Bard/Sorcerers, and Wizard/Sorcerers. Fighter/ Wizards and Rogue/Wizards would not be affected. However, I would have to disagree about Jaggar having Fighter levels -- he believes too much in combat efficiency to do that. Rather than give up an entire level of spellcasting ability to pick a Fighter level, he would be more likely to pick up a few combat feats from among his general feats. Weapon specialization is the only relevant feat that would be unavailable to him, and I already have a few ideas for getting around or compensating for that limitation. BTW, at one point I nominated Prince Jaggar as a possible Sorcerer, but his Mastery of one of the Secret Crafts would seem to preclude him from being anything other than a true Wizard. However, what if his son Sigmund were a Sorcerer rather than a Wizard? That would create a succession problem, as he could not graduate from the Great School of Magic, and his personality seems to lean more in the "mad scientist" direction rather than the "warrior hero" tradition that would be more likely to earn him nobility for "heroic service". Maybe it is the hope of securing his son's succession that motivates him to cooperate in advancing Kol and other non-traditional users of arcane magic into the Glantrian nobility? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 02:25:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-23 3:14:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > Maybe Hin Masters would be better represented as their own class?! I think I would favor that approach. There could be social (not game) restrictions that prevent Halflings from starting out in that class in some but not all cases -- just as the Balancers or "Druids" who normally cannot gain access to their extra spells before 9th level in most of the Known World can cast Druidic spells as soon as they gain access to any spells in Robrenn. Similarly, in adventures involving all-Halfling parties in the Five Shires, 1st level Masters with no other classes would be a virtual necessity as a source of healing magic. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:38:45 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Mag... In-Reply-To: <70.2789b1e.26d76447@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:55 8/25/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >I should have been clearer on that point. What I wanted to ban >were combinations of arcane spellcasting classes -- specifically, >Bard/Wizards, Bard/Sorcerers, and Wizard/Sorcerers. Fighter/ >Wizards and Rogue/Wizards would not be affected. Again, I disagree on this. Since the Gaz specifically mentions children using magic WITHOUT being taught it, I think the most natural way to handle such phenomenon under 3E is to make the kids sorcerers. And that they then go on to study at the Great School of Magic is also part of the setting. There should be no rules in the conversion barring what already exists, just without complimentary rules; there's absolutely going to be some Glantrians running around with one or two levels of sorcerer and the rest wizard. >However, what if his son Sigmund were a Sorcerer >rather than a Wizard? That would create a succession >problem, as he could not graduate from the Great School >of Magic, He couldn't attend and multiclass wizard, as the rules enable him to? I REALLY dislike making sorcerers into something out of whole cloth, when the setting already provides a way to slip them quietly in, as an element that's been there all along, just handled less-well as pure magic-users (wizards). BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:05:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Easterholdian Bunrab] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-23 10:12:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > How about this for a Mystaran bunrab? Comments welcome, as always. Excellent, except I would make them much smaller -- their Mass statistic in _Swordbearer_ has the same range as that of a Halfling in that game system. I certainly would not make them any taller than Dwarves, and I would keep them under 80 lbs. or so. I would also scale down their kicks proportionately to their size. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:05:37 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-23 11:08:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > 5) Converting 36 levels of Hin Master into 10 is going to involve > some real compression ... I would make them a "normal class" instead. If they are the only spellcasters available among Halflings, then 1st level Masters with no other classes might become a necessity (in the same way I suggested that Bards are vital to Glantrian adventurers). > Among my thoughts on that last, the requirements I'm thinking of for > the hin master prestige class at this point: > > 1) Characters must be hin (duh), must be resident in the Five Shires > and must either be invited in or petition to join the group. No one can do it > on their own. > 2) Characters must be lawful and/or good and cannot be chaotic or evil. Actually I think Gaz 8 may have a Chaotic Master or two -- see Loberlinn Mulgor. > 3) Characters must have learned the Denial feat. > 4) Characters must have Wilderness Lore to some to-be-determined > level. > 4) Characters must have a base attack bonus of +6 (the same as an > eighth level Rogue, as it's my assumption that many hin PCs will at least > multiclass in it, and I believe keeping Rogue as the preferred class for > the hin makes sense, since they're NOT thieves now) I don't know -- these Halflings seem more warrior-like to me. Maybe the Master class (as a non-prestige class) should be their preferred multi-class? > 5) Hit dice, spell progression, attack and saving throw progressions > should be as druids. > 6) Among the class abilities, feats and skills would be Improved > Denial, Darkvision (a class ability that increases with level, although a straight > 10' progression/level won't even come close to replicating what the > original version could do, so I probably want to have it go in higher > increments and have an ability score bonus hooked to it), Maybe give them Nightvision at one level and Darkvision at a slightly higher level? Or just give them Darkvision as a straight special ability that does not improve with level? > find drinkable water, That ability and the ability to identify tracks and trails would be covered by the Druidic ability "Nature Sense". > turn undead, and spell use. Class skills would include being taught > Lalor. > 7) The spell charts are pretty good as-is, although I need to do a > line-by-line comparison to see if the spells line up with their modern > versions and work on converting the few others. > 8) "They may use all weapons, armor and items allowed to non-Master > halflings." Uh, OK. For those of us who've been with AD&D for such a long > time that we've forgotten what our Basic set said, what does this mean? > Fighter weapons? Rogue weapons? That would be all Fighter (i.e., simple and martial) weapons and all light, medium, or heavy armor, with no restrictions other than those imposed by size. Of course, since a "standard" Master is stacked onto another class (either Fighter or a new class similar to the Fighter), we could probably get away with dropping some weapon and armor abilities since there are no faith based restrictions on using non-class weapons or armor. BTW, if we make the Master class a normal rather than a prestige class, we may want to give them the exact same multi-classing restriction that is described for Monks and Paladins in the 3E PHB. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:05:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Savage Coast Half-Elves (was Elven Sorcery) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-23 3:48:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > Thanks for the theory/explanation, it works well! But what is this > "specially-created, true-breeding race that lives on the Savage Coast"? They live in Eusdria. The king of that nation is a half-elven "paladin". These half-elves "breed true" because their half-elven characteristics are dominant -- their offspring with elf, human, or other half-elf mates are invariably half-elves themselves. The Red Steel boxed set and one of the Princess Ark articles in Dragon magazine provided more details. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:18:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Mag... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 2:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Again, I disagree on this. Since the Gaz specifically mentions children > using magic WITHOUT being taught it, I think the most natural way to handle > such phenomenon under 3E is to make the kids sorcerers. Oh? Look again -- I see no such reference there. Children have to be taught wizardly magic -- with insufficient schooling they lose their spell- casting ability completely. It is only with sufficient schooling that they become dangerous to themselves and others. See p. 56. Furthermore, taking levels as a Sorcerer would be counterproductive, as adult Glantrian nobles do not ever seem to make use of their supposed Sorcerer abilities and (more importantly) the abilities of the two classes do not stack. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 03:30:35 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Mystaran Magic (was Elven Sorcery) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 1:44:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU writes: > Dylan R. wrote: > The use of magic is not blood related, it is just possible to be a > natural born Sorcerer, or you could have worked/studied your way into > having a magical talent. The difference between a Savant and a > Mathematics Professor. > > I guess I must be off my rocker since no one else seems to know what > I'm talking about, but I coulda sworn there was something somewhere > suggesting that some humans have the biological capacity to learn > magic and others don't. Oh well. I have no idea which book I think Official D&D material does seem to present the concept of magic as being something that is learned rather than inborn (& then enhanced). I base this conclusion mainly on the core rulebooks and 2E AD&D's detailed description of magic. I do not own Gaz 3 (Glantri) or Gaz 5 (Alfheim), and I suspect that either might expound some on the nature of Mystaran magic (or at least hint as to its overall nature). I'm curious as to what canonical references exist (concerning magic) in those and other official works. So could all ye Mystaraphiles be so kind as to delve into what arcane codices of Mystaran lore ye possess and seek out the answer for a fellow sage? I thank ye in advance for the assistance. ~Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:41:54 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darth Darknerd wrote: > I was rather disapointed with what was on Eric Noah's site. However, = I will reprint what was on that site and let the audience here be the = judge. My personal opinion is that this is weak at best. Yes, reading your summary I have to agree. This is not how I envisioned = things either. This is basically a spell-casting fighter (now, that's = just overpowered), and if the ambition is to make runes a 'new' system = of magic, that's not the way to go. Be aware though, that popping up = another class/prestige-class/blahh with the name 'Runecaster' is = unfortunate when there already is one. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:49:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Rune Magic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Darth Darknerd wrote: > DURATION of RUNES >=20 > To be historically consistent, or even consistent with prior rune = systems, runes should be permanent. However, this might cause an = imbalance in the rule/campaign system. Perhaps they should be = temporary. However, there should be a way to make them permanent. I would still suggest that runes should be permanent, but the ability to = activate them should be based on number of Feats, or number of = spells/level. Runes should not be temporary, that would indeed be very = inconsistent with both history and the prior rules, on which you would = base your work. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:08:27 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Richard Andrew Walters Subject: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd like to point out that pretty much every civilzation has had spies and will continue to do so. Its in our nature to want information and the ability to get it. What else is a crystal ball? -- Richard Walters ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 04:52:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Innate VS. Learned (was 3E Spellcasters in Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/25/00 2:13:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM=20 writes: > But it must be researched -- and even most Wizards fail to learn what > they need to know in order to tap into it. I was figuring that the=20 > inability of non-Wizards to do that sort of research was what stopped=20 > them from learning about the Radiance. > =20 To me, the very presence of 3E Sorcerers on Mystara inherently=20 implies that magic is inborn for all that use it! As you state, some=20 wizards fail to learn to use certain facets of magic (the Radiance). This=20 also implies a certain lack of an innate ability to fully comprehend it. =20 In D&D and AD&D, this inborn aptitude has always been represented=20 by a character's level of intellegence. But if this is the case, then why=20 are so many Alphatians able to learn magic (and so many so well, too)? =20 I am sure some would say it is because Alphatia has better magic=20 training available and more experienced tutors. But what of this line=20 from page 2 of Dawn of the Emperors (Book 1): "Newborn children,=20 from the poorest peasant child to the most extravagantly indulged royal=20 princess, are examined by magic-users to determine their magical=20 potential."? Of course, one can interpret the line for, or against, magic being inborn, but then why does Alphatia respect magic enough to test=20 even peasants? If magic were only a highly specialized skill, would=20 it not follow examples from RW ancient cultures, where knowledge=20 was taught almost exclusively to the wealthy upper classes? Why=20 does Alphatia go out of its way to look for "magical potential" if not=20 because they long ago learned that there are many who have a=20 natural aptitude for magic and their powers tend to manifest with or=20 without training (Sorcerers). Perhaps enough of these magic-users=20 existed on their homeworld to garner a lasting respect for all those=20 naturally talented. Henceforth from that time, it became law to check=20 everyone for magical talent! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:02:05 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/25/00 2:35:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM=20 writes: > Similarly, in adventures > involving all-Halfling parties in the Five Shires, 1st level Masters with > no other classes would be a virtual necessity as a source of healing > magic. I think Beau wanted to better reflect the Master class as described=20 in Gaz 8. Keep in mind, player characters who become Hin Masters using=20 the Od&d rules switch over from their original class (generic=20 halfling=E2=80=94fighter/ rogue)! Prestige classes offer the chance to specialize in a similar way to= =20 Od&d. =20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:08:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Innate VS. Learned (was 3E Spellcasters in Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/25/00 2:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > Again, I disagree on this. Since the Gaz specifically mentions=20 > children using magic WITHOUT being taught it, I think the most natural=20 > way to handle such phenomenon under 3E is to make the kids sorcerers. > =20 Aha! Canonical Evidence, whoo-hoo! Thanks Beau! :> And since Glantri wizards are descended from Alphatian Flaems, it goes=20 toward supporting my supposition about Alphatians being mages more=20 often because of a greater occurrence of innate aptitude! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 05:29:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: 3E Spellcasters in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/25/00 2:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > I REALLY dislike making sorcerers into something out of whole cloth, when > the setting already provides a way to slip them quietly in, as an element > that's been there all along, just handled less-well as pure magic-users > (wizards). I agree with Beau on this too, there's no reason why sorcerers cannot=20 learn to be exceptional wizards. When they focus their time on it and not=20 sorcery, they progress in the mage class. Vice versa, when sorcery is=20 honed more, they advance as a sorcerer. But I personally DO NOT think=20 mages/wizards should be allowed to become sorcerers except in rare=20 instances. This is due to the fact that Sorcerers are only able to create=20 their spontaneous magic the way they do because they have an exception- ally strong, pre-attuned innate ability. However, even though it is not=20 impossible to hone a less-attuned talent well enough to do sorcery, it is a=20 great deal more difficult because the mage must unlearn all the wrong=20 techniques of arcane magic and accept that magic is innate. This can be=20 a long, grueling process and most would-be sorcerers haven't the patience=20 and faith to see it through. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:08:10 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Monkey Sorceress? Comments: To: mystara3E@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >At 16:51 8/23/00 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote: > >One of Virayana's three wives (Jherek Virayana is a Glantrian Prince of > >Krondahar, Master of Illusionism), if I remember correctly was trained in > >the *sorcerous* craft of her husband, even though she's not a Mage but a > >commoner. > >Do I remember well? > This is wrong. Lan-Syn is the only wife of Prince Jherek's who is a member of the Secret Craft of Illusionism(or Dream Magic) and she is a wizard in both GAZ3 and the GKoM boxed set. It even specifically states in GAZ3 that she is the only legal heir of Prince Jherek, because she is a wizard. Now in GAZ3 Frau Hildegarde was listed as a fighter and a member of the secret craft of Earth Elementalists, but this error was corrected in GKOM, where she is listed as a wizard. There are no canon references to a non-mage entering a secret craft. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** Ok, my mistake: I didn't have Gaz3 in my hands and I remembered wrong: thanks, Dave, for pointing this out. Still, there's a monkey (yes, a monkey!) in module "Castle Amber" which is able to cast a spell like a Sorceror: i can't remember if she's said to have been the victim of a mad experiment or if she just plainly LEARNED that spell because of her long frequentation with the Amber family: could anybody check this out, as I don't have the module with me? If the second is the case (i.e. if she learned the spell in a sourcerous way), then anybody in Mystara might be naturally gifted for sorcery, because it's obvious that a monkey doesn't have any Elven or Alphatian/Flaemish blood in her lineage. Anybody to confirm? Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:02:01 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/24/00 9:39:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << Not needed. All prestige classes count as "preferred". >> Well I've heard people say that they are and aren't, so I'm really not sure. Care to share the source? Because my original belief was that they were, I just can't remember where I read it. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:37:58 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: Knight troubles! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi people, sorry for not responding for a while. I have been busy. I have a question on knights and baronies. Do you think that every barony would have some knights working for them? In other words, are knights working for a baron or a noble or are they working for themselves? Also how would you think they would show that they belong to a certain barony? By wearing the coat of arms, but would they just have a small symbol or would that wear something over their armor? One more thing does anyone know a good webaddress where I could look up matters like these. (the knights in mystara or something). I am a little confused since people can be granted the title of knight in Karameikos, but would they then work for some baron afterwards? Hope some one can help me out. Thanks. Regards, Max ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:02:41 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <74.2779b38.26d774c1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > I would make them a "normal class" instead. If they are the only > spellcasters available among Halflings, then 1st level Masters with > no other classes might become a necessity (in the same way I > suggested that Bards are vital to Glantrian adventurers). Why? There is _no_ reason to make up a "new class" for masters. Why don't we make a "new class" for elven treekeepers too? When will it end? Then Mystara will be a font for hundreds of "new classes", and it will be worse than the FR. Its easier to keep with the spirit of the halfling master and make it a prestige class. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:11:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Prestige Classes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Most of these sound like they'd be handled just fine with feats or >skills >and don't need prestige classes. > > >Bard of Bellayne - Basic Requirements: A spontaneous composition on a >topic > >in a special compitetion - (Perform Skill DV30, up to +5 for player > >creativity) > > What makes them different than other bards? Bards of Bellyane would recieve less by way of Base attack advancement but they would get bonuses to their bardic powers. I may make them lose all spells that are not communication related. > > >Gaucho - Ride, Mounted Combat, Lasso or Bola, Pistol, Dexterity 11, own > >horse. > > What benefits would they get? Couldn't they be duplicated with >feats? > Benefits: the ability to sleep fully armored/clothed/mounted (which is a big deal in my game), an animal afinity for horses, Low-Light Vision (the one the Elves have), a bonus to encumbrance (they always carry all of their belongings), and possibly an additional constitution bonus at fifth and tenth (Gaucho) levels. > >Swashbuckler - Basic Requirements: Dexterity 13+; Weapons Finesse: >Rapier, > >Saber, or Small Sword; and choose three of the following Expertise, > >Ambidexterity, Evasion, +3 Basic Attack, Weapon Profincy:Hat or Cloak, >Two > >Weapon Attack. > >Swashbuckler would then gain access to some tumbling, and feats based on > >fencing maneuvers in the SC book. > > Check the new "Dragon," too, for their Duelist. > But again, couldn't you just make the fencing maneuvers into feats >(the >ones that aren't already) and require that people go to a fencing >instructor to learn them? > Oh but swashbucklers are so much more than mere duelists, they can taunt (good for getting someone else arrested for the brawl you want to start or distracting people from attacking the MU), they can inspire their comrades with witty banter, and the can distract opponents with slurs and insults. > >Sailor - Swim, Strength 12, Dexterity 12,Alertness, Endurance > > Aren't those just a set of skills and feats? > Sailors would get strength or constitution bonuses after 5 and ten levels, swinging, long distance swimming, The ability to ignore uneven or unstable ground modifiers > >Soldier - Basic Requirements: Depends on the Company but Basic >Requirements: > >Armor Profiency, +1 Basic Attack Bonus, Proper Weapon Profiencies. > >Requirements for the Renardois Kings Horseguard: 1 Level in another >Company, > >1 Level of Swashbuckler, Profincies: Saber, Rapier, Hand Pistol, Riding > >Skill, Mounted Combat, +5 Basic Attack Bonus (this is a Black > >Musketeers-style company) > > What differentiates them from being a subset of fighters? > A soldier would be a fighter, but this represents veterans and officers. What sets them apart is a bonus to willpower related saving throws, ability to sleep in equipment, a take the blow optionwhere they could step and take a hit meant for a comrade, never flatfooted Immunity to fear, a bonus on sanity checks from corpses, chums (well, I was in this dirty hole getting more than I was giving by a couple dozen of irrate greenskins, when who would come around the corner but "Killer" Hodgkins and "Spanky" LeSoto, two of my mates from the old Regiment) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:19:14 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Magic) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >And it is fairly easy to fit the three 3E arcane spellcasting classes >into > >the Glantrian social structure: > > > >Wizard: Wizards rule -- literally. Wizards have set things up in >Glantri > >so that only members of that class have any chance to learn how to tap > >into the Radiance, learn a Secret Craft, or pass the magical courses > >given at the Great School of Magic. > > I'd argue that the wizards didn't set up anything with the >Radiance. It >just IS and it happens to be easily tapped into by arcane spellcasters >only. > I would totally agree, Wizards learn how to manipulate the Radiance. > >Bard: With the banning of Clerics, Bards filled their niche. The >Shepherds > >of Rad are generally Bards, and Glantrian adventuring parties generally > >include Bards to take care of their magical healing needs. As the >Glantrian > >equivalent of "clergy", they rank just above common "gents" but below the > >nobility. > > Score one for David! This is a great idea. Good call. > I also like this Idea, in fact in my game many priests, (especially the wandering evangelicals) are actually Bards than Clerics, who preach instead of sing. > >Sorcerer: These natural talents are accepted as "gents" but generally > >find their social advancement blocked by the rules set up by the Wizards. > >Many of them join the army in the hope of gaining noble rank through the > >only avenue that the Wizards have left open to them: heroic service. > > Eh. I still don't see this as a real category in Glantri. This is >childrens' magic, or perhaps a byproduct of the Radiance. > At best, Sorcerers would be snube, but I think they would be looked down on and probably feared as dangerous, unpredictable manipulators of teh Radiance. Where a Wizard does something because he has researched how the component interact a sorcerer sort of plays-by-ear. Many Wizards would look at these people the way we would look at an untrained person using nitroglycerine to remove backyard tree stumps. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:22:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Re: [GLANTRI] The Plague Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Where is "Stan's", so I can get a look at the Wyrmsteeth thing? I have been changing the idea for the plague years over and over again (as it is still quite a few sessions away, IMC). Right now, I am considering having the Rockhome dwarves make a pact with the E.L.F in Erewan, rather than with Malachie (though possibly with both). The fair elves would find themselves immune (because of this pact with the dwarven clerics), and plan to declare independance for Erewan at the height of the plague (when the rest of the population, especially the non-immune belcadiz elves, are hating the erewani). Though the ambassador to Alfheim is not pro-independance, nor is Princess Carlotina Erewan.. tha ambassador's aide is in cahoots with another powerful Erewani elf (and leader in E.L.F.) to kidnap and imprison (or kill) the alfheim ambassador and Princess Carlotina. The E.L.F. leader will take over the Principality, while the aide will become the new ambassador and urge alfheim to help the poor, suffering erewani elves (the new ambassador having connections in alfheim to help him out). Hope that all makes sense. Two of my PC's are elves, so I thought involving erewan more would be better. There are various in character connections to this overarching plot line, but I won't get into that. Erik ---- you wrote: > I have just returned from a fake vacation, and this idea is really lovable. I > like it. I love it. Have you ever > thought to get in the plot the Wyrmteeth nation I developed (it's found at > Stan's). There are werewolves > and dwarves there, allied with weres and dwarves of Averoigne, so... > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:28:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: [GLANTRI] The Plague Years In-Reply-To: <00082509220000.25993@webb2.iname.net>; from erik@CANADIENSFAN.COM on Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 09:22:00AM -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Aug 25, 2000 at 09:22:00AM -0400, Erik Waddell wrote: > Where is "Stan's", so I can get a look at the Wyrmsteeth thing? http://dnd.starflung.com Perhaps this should be further up the FAQ :) > Hope that all makes sense. Two of my PC's are elves, so I thought involving erewan more would be better. There are various in character connections to this overarching plot line, but I won't get into that. It does make sense, and sounds quite nice. It's always preferable to have things that the PC's will be more involved in, and with 2 elves then it would be criminal not to include ELF/FAERY in the plot! gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:34:40 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Federico Kaftal wrote: > > Still, there's a monkey (yes, a monkey!) in module "Castle Amber" which is > able to cast a spell like a Sorceror: i can't remember if she's said to have > been the victim of a mad experiment or if she just plainly LEARNED that > spell because of her long frequentation with the Amber family: could anybody > check this out, as I don't have the module with me? It's not a monkey, it's a dwarf (a very short human, not a demihuman) jester (though he does look like a monkey!), who learned polymorph other and charm monster by spying the d'Ambrevilles. He polymorphed two evil d'Ambrevilles into white apes and charmed them. Etienne rendered the spells permanent, but he also cursed the jester. As a side note, he is only able to cast those two spells (the polymorph can be cast twice, IIRC). Hope it helps, -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:39:01 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: [GLANTRI] The Plague Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Where is "Stan's", so I can get a look at the Wyrmsteeth thing? Right under here, in the lines added by ML software... it's the Mystara Homepage :) > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:56:04 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Knight troubles! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I have a question on knights and baronies. Do you think that every > barony would have some knights working for them? Well, normally knights work for the royalty. Ex.: in Karameikos, only Stefan can name you knight, so you cannot be knighted by, say, Ludwig von Hendricks. Of course, things can be different in other countries. IMO, more advanced countries tend to have a more centralized power, so often the lesser nobles cannot create knights, or even vassals. Lands with a lesser degree of control from the center may work differently. Norwold would be an appropriate example of this style. Anyway, even though minor nobles of Karameikos cannot usually be lieges of knights, this does not mean that knights cannot work for them. On the contrary, knights are sworn to protect their lord's land, so the lord's vassals can call upon knights of their liege to solve problems, etc. A good way to have knights follow directly a minor noble is to have the noble be the head of a knightly order. This works differently from the standard individual knight, but allows to have knights who report directly to someone who isn't their liege. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:56:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [GLANTRI] The Plague Years MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 9:35:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gmcc@ESATCLEAR.IE writes: > > http://dnd.starflung.com > > Perhaps this should be further up the FAQ :) > It won't do much good being on a FAQ on someone's site if people are not familiar with the site! 8-) Instead, couldn't we all try to write URLs whenever we mention a site? It's just a small courtesy, but one that's sure to be helpful even when no one asks for the URL (cause there's always someone who might want it!). The Computer thanks you for your loyal compliance! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:08:34 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Dylan Rickards wrote: > Bards of Bellyane would recieve less by way of Base attack advancement but > they would get bonuses to their bardic powers. I may make them lose all > spells that are not communication related. Again, what makes this different? You can do that without a prestige class, with feats and skills. > Benefits: the ability to sleep fully armored/clothed/mounted (which is a big > deal in my game), an animal afinity for horses, Low-Light Vision (the one > the Elves have), a bonus to encumbrance (they always carry all of their > belongings), and possibly an additional constitution bonus at fifth and > tenth (Gaucho) levels. Make up some new skills or feats. Again, no need for a new class. > Oh but swashbucklers are so much more than mere duelists, they can taunt > (good for getting someone else arrested for the brawl you want to start or > distracting people from attacking the MU), they can inspire their comrades > with witty banter, and the can distract opponents with slurs and insults. Skill: Witty banter. No extra class needed. > Sailors would get strength or constitution bonuses after 5 and ten levels, > swinging, long distance swimming, The ability to ignore uneven or unstable > ground modifiers Again, these are skills or feats. > A soldier would be a fighter, but this represents veterans and officers. > What sets them apart is a bonus to willpower related saving throws, ability > to sleep in equipment, a take the blow optionwhere they could step and take > a hit meant for a comrade, never flatfooted Immunity to fear, a bonus on > sanity checks from corpses, chums (well, I was in this dirty hole getting > more than I was giving by a couple dozen of irrate greenskins, when who > would come around the corner but "Killer" Hodgkins and "Spanky" LeSoto, two > of my mates from the old Regiment) Same as before. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:36:41 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? Comments: To: mystara3E@egroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Federico Kaftal wrote: > >Still, there's a monkey (yes, a monkey!) in module "Castle Amber" which is >able to cast a spell like a Sorceror: i can't remember if she's said to have >been the victim of a mad experiment or if she just plainly LEARNED that >spell because of her long frequentation with the Amber family: could anybody >check this out, as I don't have the module with me? It's not a monkey, it's a dwarf (a very short human, not a demihuman) jester (though he does look like a monkey!), who learned polymorph other and charm monster by spying the d'Ambrevilles. He polymorphed two evil d'Ambrevilles into white apes and charmed them. Etienne rendered the spells permanent, but he also cursed the jester. As a side note, he is only able to cast those two spells (the polymorph can be cast twice, IIRC). Hope it helps, -- Giampaolo Agosta ********************************************* Good! Thanks Giampaolo! So we have at least one genuine low-level human Sorcerer in Mystara! He doesn't study/use a book, and his abilities were learnt from spying, not by any magical means. And this man seems to be neither Elvish nor Alphatian/Flaemish, but rather of Averoignean descent: which makes him another Extra-Mystaran (Averoigne belongs to a different Dimension/Reality). This seems to support the hypothesis that "pure" Mystaran humans cannot be Sorcerers unless they have Extra-Mystaran blood in their veins (we might infer that Elves have Extra-Mystaran origins too, in their pre-history...). This would also account for the very little number of Sorcerers found on Mystara. It seems to me that we may save both the new 3E canon AND the old Mystaran flavour in this way. What d'you think? Federico ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:58:56 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Prestige Classes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > > Bards of Bellyane would receive less by way of Base attack advancement >but > > they would get bonuses to their bardic powers. I may make them lose all > > spells that are not communication related. > >Again, what makes this different? You can do that without a prestige >class, with feats and skills. These would be a Prestige Class simply because it would add flavor (to quote Flavor Flav "Flavors in everything.") > > > Benefits: the ability to sleep fully armored/clothed/mounted (which is a >big > > deal in my game), an animal affinity for horses, Low-Light Vision (the >one > > the Elves have), a bonus to encumbrance (they always carry all of their > > belongings), and possibly an additional constitution bonus at fifth and > > tenth (Gaucho) levels. > >Make up some new skills or feats. Again, no need for a new class. First, there will not be any feat that allows character to increase ability statistics in my campaign. Low-Light Vision will probably not be a feat, and if it is it will be only available to Gauchos. > > > Oh but swashbucklers are so much more than mere duelists, they can taunt > > (good for getting someone else arrested for the brawl you want to start >or > > distracting people from attacking the MU), they can inspire their >comrades > > with witty banter, and the can distract opponents with slurs and >insults. > As Witty Banter will take away Attacks of Opportunity from other people (and at higher levels it may even take away attacks), cause spell-like effects (Enrage), add to saving throws of others I do not see as a skill, though it may be based on the Bluff skill, like Bard abilities are based on perform. It may be a series of feats but I would restrict the feats from certain other classes. >Skill: Witty banter. No extra class needed. > > > Sailors would get strength or constitution bonuses after 5 and ten >levels, > > swinging, long distance swimming, The ability to ignore uneven or >unstable > > ground modifiers > >Again, these are skills or feats. > See Ability Statistic Bonus above > > A soldier would be a fighter, but this represents veterans and officers. > > What sets them apart is a bonus to willpower related saving throws, >ability > > to sleep in equipment, a take the blow option where they could step and >take > > a hit meant for a comrade, never flatfooted Immunity to fear, a bonus on > > sanity checks from corpses, chums (well, I was in this dirty hole >getting > > more than I was giving by a couple dozen of irate greenskins, when who > > would come around the corner but "Killer" Hodgkins and "Spanky" LeSoto, >two > > of my mates from the old Regiment) > Let me rephrase this, Willpower will be the favored saving throw over Fortitude. Take a blow may be a feat but it would be exclusive to certain soldiers. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:05:55 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >Federico Kaftal wrote: > This seems to support the hypothesis that "pure" Mystaran humans cannot be > Sorcerers unless they have Extra-Mystaran blood in their veins (we might > infer that Elves have Extra-Mystaran origins too, in their pre-history...). > > This would also account for the very little number of Sorcerers found on > Mystara. Everyone on Mystara has at least a drop of extra-mystaran blood! Be it Elven, Alphatian, Emerondian, Laterran, Alien from the federation or whatever. Unless you limit the "extra-mystaran" to a certain degree, I don't think this can work. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:30:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Prestige Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 7:11:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << Again, what makes this different? You can do that without a prestige class, with feats and skills >> And what difference does it make if someone wants to add new classes or p-classes to their game? If you don't like them or don't see them as necessary, don't use them. But if someone else wants to, don't tell them it's pointless becasue it might not be to them. Each to his own and all that. What fun would Mystara be if every person's game was exactly the same and had nothing to make it unique? Just be glad it's not WotC/TSR saying the are 'canon' class and p-class, and just someone wanting to spice up his or her campaign. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:34:34 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Mystara Sorcerers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 4:21:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << There are no canon references to a non-mage entering a secret craft. >> Why do we *need* a canon reference for sorcerers to exist in Mystara or to be able to join a secret craft? I think it's alot easier to judge whether or not they exist depending on how you run your games rather than trying to find an obscure passage mentions someone who is sorcerer-like. Especially since there was nothing like sorcerers in previous editions, so the only thing that will resemble them will be monsters or NPCs with special abilties! Ok, I'm done ranting for the day. ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:30:09 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <74.2779b38.26d774c1@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:05 8/25/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >I would make them a "normal class" instead. If they are the only >spellcasters available among Halflings, then 1st level Masters with >no other classes might become a necessity (in the same way I >suggested that Bards are vital to Glantrian adventurers). I've already decided IMC to allow halfling rangers and bards (and maybe paladins and druids), so this argument doesn't hold as much weight with me. >> 2) Characters must be lawful and/or good and cannot be chaotic or >evil. > >Actually I think Gaz 8 may have a Chaotic Master or two -- see >Loberlinn Mulgor. Hmmm. >I don't know -- these Halflings seem more warrior-like to me. Maybe the >Master class (as a non-prestige class) should be their preferred multi-class? There's nothing saying that a rogue can't burn most of their skills on combat-applicable ones. But the Shires don't have a martial culture now. They'e watchful, but not militant. >Maybe give them Nightvision at one level and Darkvision at a slightly higher >level? Or just give them Darkvision as a straight special ability that does >not improve with level? Actually, I think going with Nightvision, period, makes the most sense: These are abilities they gain emulating elves, and elves have Nightvision. (Unless these early Ur-Elves in the Shires were VERY unusual ...) >> find drinkable water, > >That ability and the ability to identify tracks and trails would be covered >by the Druidic ability "Nature Sense". True. >BTW, if we make the Master class a normal rather than a prestige class, >we may want to give them the exact same multi-classing restriction that >is described for Monks and Paladins in the 3E PHB. I think that's not at all appropriate. The class was originally described as one that experienced adventurers had to be asked into or petition to join. Even if, for some reason, they weren't a prestige class, but a standard one, changing into the Master class should remain an option, since there's lots of small NPCs running around who've done it. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:31:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Mag... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:18 8/25/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-08-25 2:46:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM >writes: > >Oh? Look again -- I see no such reference there. Children have to be >taught wizardly magic -- with insufficient schooling they lose their spell- >casting ability completely. It is only with sufficient schooling that they >become dangerous to themselves and others. See p. 56. I'll check again. Is there no reference to children casting magic having learned it on their own, sans instruction? >Furthermore, taking levels as a Sorcerer would be counterproductive, as >adult Glantrian nobles do not ever seem to make use of their supposed >Sorcerer abilities and (more importantly) the abilities of the two classes >do not stack. I don't use my tree fort-building skills, but that doesn't mean I didn't gain them as a child. I don't think stacking or not should make a difference. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:35:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Innate VS. Learned (was 3E Spellcasters in Glantri) In-Reply-To: <11.8685f9d.26d78dda@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:52 8/25/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: > To me, the very presence of 3E Sorcerers on Mystara inherently >implies that magic is inborn for all that use it! What if it wasn't ALL sentients who could become sorcerers? Maybe, f'r instance, you had to be conceived and/or raised within a certain proximity of the Nucleus of the Spheres? That would mean Glantrians, Shadow Elves and creatures from the Broken Lands could. The mystery of why THEM and no one else could help PCs discover the Radiance. >page 2 of Dawn of the Emperors (Book 1): "Newborn children, >from the poorest peasant child to the most extravagantly indulged royal >princess, are examined by magic-users to determine their magical >potential."? Hmmm. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:39:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:11 8/25/00 EDT, Dylan Rickards wrote: >> >Bard of Bellayne - Basic Requirements: A spontaneous composition on a >>topic >> >in a special compitetion - (Perform Skill DV30, up to +5 for player >> >creativity) >> >> What makes them different than other bards? > >Bards of Bellyane would recieve less by way of Base attack advancement but >they would get bonuses to their bardic powers. I may make them lose all >spells that are not communication related. Why lower base attack? Couldn't you just edit the available spell list for bards? I've gone through with an axe on the wizard list for my Karameikos campaign. (No named spells, f'r instance.) >> >Gaucho - Ride, Mounted Combat, Lasso or Bola, Pistol, Dexterity 11, own >> >horse. >> >> What benefits would they get? Couldn't they be duplicated with >>feats? >> > >Benefits: the ability to sleep fully armored/clothed/mounted (which is a big >deal in my game), That could be a new feat. >an animal afinity for horses, An existant skill. >Low-Light Vision (the one >the Elves have), a bonus to encumbrance (they always carry all of their >belongings), and possibly an additional constitution bonus at fifth and >tenth (Gaucho) levels. Well, those are new. >> >Swashbuckler - Basic Requirements: Dexterity 13+; Weapons Finesse: >>Rapier, >> >Saber, or Small Sword; and choose three of the following Expertise, >> >Ambidexterity, Evasion, +3 Basic Attack, Weapon Profincy:Hat or Cloak, >>Two >> >Weapon Attack. >> >Swashbuckler would then gain access to some tumbling, and feats based on >> >fencing maneuvers in the SC book. >> >> But again, couldn't you just make the fencing maneuvers into feats >>(the >>ones that aren't already) and require that people go to a fencing >>instructor to learn them? > >Oh but swashbucklers are so much more than mere duelists, they can taunt >(good for getting someone else arrested for the brawl you want to start or >distracting people from attacking the MU), they can inspire their comrades >with witty banter, and the can distract opponents with slurs and insults. Skills, skills, skills. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:12:00 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's absolutely fascinating...know why? The guy's nickname is "Little Ape" in the Averione home language. I'm willing to bet that French is the original poster's native tongue, hence the confusion. Eh? Am I right? ----- Original Message ----- From: Agathokles To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Monkey Sorceress? > > Federico Kaftal wrote: > > > > Still, there's a monkey (yes, a monkey!) in module "Castle Amber" > which is > > able to cast a spell like a Sorceror: i can't remember if she's said > to have > > been the victim of a mad experiment or if she just plainly LEARNED > that > > spell because of her long frequentation with the Amber family: could > anybody > > check this out, as I don't have the module with me? > > It's not a monkey, it's a dwarf (a very short human, not a demihuman) > jester (though he does look like a monkey!), who learned polymorph other > and charm monster by spying the d'Ambrevilles. He polymorphed two evil > d'Ambrevilles into white apes and charmed them. Etienne rendered the > spells permanent, but he also cursed the jester. > As a side note, he is only able to cast those two spells (the polymorph > can be cast twice, IIRC). > Hope it helps, > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta > > > agathokles@libero.it > agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it > http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:32:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Prestige Classes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Why lower base attack? Couldn't you just edit the available spell list for >bards? > I am sorry, the Prestige class is for the Heralds of Bellayne (this is what I get for doing this at work.) The base attack would be lower because (in my game) these Heralds are considered nuetral and can not (er should not) be slain (or challenged etc) by nobles unless the Heralds attack, which they are not supposed to, so they tend to not be as well practiced as other Bards who are not considered nuetrals. This is also campaign specific, but I have thought about making it so that the Heralds are forbidden to carry weapons on official business (i.e. if you are carrying a weapon you are a target, if not you are allowed to act as a recorder/messenger/Herald) and give the Heralds some unarmed combat benefits. (which would require a seperate class because many of the Heralds would not be Lawful.) The ability to sleep in all of your equipment would be a new feat, but it would be only allowed to a couple of Classes, probably Bard, Soldier, and Gaucho. I think I have answered the other questions in other messages. BTW: Someone said that people should not criticize thes ideas but just be glad they are not canon. I disagree, as these ideas are new (to me also), the critiques allow/force me to flesh out the reasoning behind them, why things should be done, and whether or not they are truely something I want to add to my campaign. Plus they give other people ideas for how to do similar things without going whole hog. As I am running a largely Swashbuckling campaign that is influence by Central America in the beginning of the last century, the Swashbuckler and Gaucho classes are very important to MY game and will be included, but someone who just wants to introduce a single swashbuckler should probably use a skill system (or someone who is interested in giving the system a more gritty feel and does not want to allow swashbucklers to do what mine can). Dylan R. Dylan R. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:01:58 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Easterholdian Bunrab] David wrote: >Excellent, except I would make them much smaller -- their Mass >statistic in _Swordbearer_ has the same range as that of a Halfling >in that game system. I certainly would not make them any taller >than Dwarves, and I would keep them under 80 lbs. or so. I would >also scale down their kicks proportionately to their size. :-) Fair enough - perhaps these are the rarer, Greater Bunrabs? The more common bunrabs (the non-chocolate-egg-loving variety) might be closer in size to halflings. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:31:25 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: <1e.9ebcc60.26d7eb07@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Lord Deldain wrote: > And what difference does it make if someone wants to add new classes or > p-classes to their game? If you don't like them or don't see them as > necessary, don't use them. But if someone else wants to, don't tell them it's > pointless becasue it might not be to them. I'm not saying that it is pointless, but that you don't need to use a prestige class to do what skills and feats can do. Do what you will, but I'm giving my opinion. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:47:12 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit or the net for that matter. mortus. > I'd like to point out that pretty much every civilzation has had spies > and will continue to do so. Its in our nature to want information and the > ability to get it. What else is a crystal ball? > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:30:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I'd like to point out that pretty much every civilzation has had spies > and will continue to do so. Its in our nature to want information and the > ability to get it. What else is a crystal ball? > Let us also not forget a 'canonical' reference to spying in Mystara. The adventure "Thyatian Millennium" in DotE (p93-8) has one of Alphatians. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 10:45:41 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:31 08/25/2000 -0400, Ethan wrote: >I'm not saying that it is pointless, but that you don't need to use a >prestige class to do what skills and feats can do. Do what you will, but >I'm giving my opinion. Exactly. Making a new class that essentially duplicates another class but just focuses its skill and feat choices is a different criteria than the ones in the PHB are using. There's nothing wrong with that, if someone really wants to do it, but it should be noted that it's strongly deviating from the "norm" at that point. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:09:22 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Prestige Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 10:37:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << I'm not saying that it is pointless, but that you don't need to use a prestige class to do what skills and feats can do. Do what you will, but I'm giving my opinion. >> Sorry to get all defensive, I just had a bad day and some of the posts talking about how the prestige classes weren't necessary sounded kind of negative. Either way, I still feel that prestige classes that have abilities that mimic feats and skills aren't necessarily bad so long as they offer at least *some* new feature of those abilities. Sure a guard p-class wouldn't be as necessary since you can mimic anything a guard could do with skills and feats. But if you wanted to make a special type of soldier for your game, such as (and I'm just making this up off the top of my head) a Royal Karameikian(sp?) Watchman, who gets special bonuses to Spot, Listen and Search checks while on duty and or so on, I think it's a great idea. Not only because it adds flavor to the setting, but because it helps players distinguish their characters. Which is cooler and more fun for someone to play: a guard, or a Royal Karameikian Watchman? Which would be more interesting to build plots around, and so on. And I know you mentioned that too many p-classes would make Mystara as bad like Forgotten Realms. How come? I think they would add more depth to an already well-developed world. Between the books coming out, new ones in Dragon magazine, homemade ones and so on, I think we can expect to see as many of them as we did kits in the long run. Which I'm all in favor of. The more options, the better IMO. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:48:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Prestige Classes In-Reply-To: <41.15197e.26d81052@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Lord Deldain wrote: > like Forgotten Realms. How come? I think they would add more depth to an > already well-developed world. Exactly. Mystara is at the point where there is already enough development in many areas. > Dragon magazine, homemade ones and so on, I think we can expect to see as > many of them as we did kits in the long run. Which I'm all in favor of. Yech. I hated kits. Prestige classes are so much more, a treekeeper is a prestige class, a hin master is also. But a regular guy with nice skills and feats is not. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:29:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Richard Andrew Walters wrote: > > I'd like to point out that pretty much every civilzation has had spies > and will continue to do so. Its in our nature to want information and the > ability to get it. What else is a crystal ball? No disputing that. It's not the presence of spies, but the sophistication. That is, medieval and earlier societies weren't particularly known for their innovative intelligence gathering. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 15:47:42 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Prestige Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 12:04:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: << Exactly. Mystara is at the point where there is already enough development in many areas. >> That's why it seems like everyone is always proposing new stuff on the list to add to the setting, right? I think the difference between Mystara and the Realms is that Mystara's development makes sense. It's done well and it all seems to work together in some for or another. The Realms don't. There is so much crammed into the setting, and for no other reason than it's the most popular, that it basically ruined it. << Yech. I hated kits. Prestige classes are so much more, a treekeeper is a prestige class, a hin master is also. But a regular guy with nice skills and feats is not. >> Who didn't hate kits? ;) But anyway, I agree that a regular soldier or scout with wouldn't constitute being a p-class. It's *very* specialized versions of those groups that I might consider worth creating a new p-class for. They way I look at it, groups like Elementalists, Assassins and other 'classes' which require a devotion to a certain speciality such as one branch of elemental magic or killing people for money qualify for their own p-class because they should get certain bonuses above and beyond just normal skills. Maybe they get certain feats for free, like how Rangers get tracking. Or they get unique abilities like how Druids get wild shape. Either way, they possess a talent that should seperate them from their normal class. Prestige classes offer several options. You can use them as a form of advanced class, as replacements for kits, speciality groups such as the Secret Crafts, and so on. All of which are valid. However it's up to the DM to really decide how he wants to use them in his world. For example, in my Mystara games, I'd allow someone to develop a new prestige class for a specialty group such as new Secret Craft of a specialized profession such as the afore mentioned Karameikian Royal Guard, all because it's very easy for me to work into the setting and allows me to make the setting my own. However, if I were running my home-made (and still at current time nameless) setting I probably would stick to the idea that p-classes are reserved for advanced forms of other classes such as the Assassin class as an advancment of the Rogue class, and so on. Why? Because that's how I want it to work in my world. But anyway, it's all goes back to what you want to do. If you'd rather keep it simply and have AD&D kits or what not that would more easily be translated into 'professions' instead of creating new p-classes. No problem. If you want to make the kits into new classes or p-classes just to see how they might work out. Also no problem. The fun of the new 3e system is experiementing and seeing what works. Why should the playtesters get all the fun? ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:07:39 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike & Rebecca Harvey Subject: Re: Knight troubles! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Max Monas wrote: > sorry for not responding for a while. I have been busy. I have a question on > knights and baronies. Do you think that every barony would have some knights > working for them? In other words, are knights working for a baron or a noble > or are they working for themselves? There are two types of knight: landed knights and unlanded knights. Unlanded knights will work directly for another noble, living in their castle and serving them directly. A landed knight will have his own feif or manor, usually under a minor noble such as a baron. A manor will include the knight's home, a few villages, and associated farmland. The landed knight lives in a fortified manor house or tower, and if he can afford it will employ men-at-arms or unlanded knights. A baron (or count) is actually a mid-level noble. Upon being granted a new feif, the baron will need to attract tenant farmers. However the barony is too large for the baron to control directly. In medieval times, four miles was considered the maximum effective "strike distance" from a castle, and land more than four miles from a castle was essentially unprotected wilderness. What this means is that you need one castle or tower for each 8-mile hex in order to completely develop and protect the land. The baron will have a castle, but that only protects one 8-mile hex. So he will need to recruit knights and grant each of them part of his land in return for military service. Each 8-mile hex (55 square miles) will need at least one castle (probably assigned to a baronet, who falls between a baron and a knight), and is probably enough land to support several landed knights. Each baron, baronet, and landed knight may also have unlanded knight and men-at-arms in his household. Each vassal owes military service to his landlord, so when the baron goes to war he can call upon ALL his landed knights and their households to fight for him. Note that in some lands it requires royal permission to build a proper castle (since a castle represents a threat to sovreignity), so many barons and landed knights will get by with a fortified manor house or maybe a tower. BTW, a king like Stefan also has his own lands; he'll appoint someone to oversee them, and will have his own personal barons, baronets, landed knights, and unlanded knights. I have more information about economics and land usage if you're interested, but it might not fit with the Mystaran dominion rules. > Also how would you think they would show > that they belong to a certain barony? By wearing the coat of arms, > but would they just have a small symbol or would that wear something > over their armor? Men at arms would wear the colors of their liege, but I think historically barons and knights all had their own coats of arms. Specialists in heraldry were needed to remember who was who, and who was a vassal of who. > I am a little confused since people can be granted the > title of knight in Karameikos, but would they then work for some > baron afterwards? As unlanded knight would be granted a title and would then have to seek employment in a household. I think a "knight errant" is one who has no leige lord, essentially a noble mercenary. A landed knight would be granted land holdings as a vassal of whoever appointed him. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- bing@iccom.com (formerly mike@cs.pdx.edu) Mike Harvey HTTP://www.iccom.com/usrwww/bing/home.html Beaverton, Oregon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:14:26 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Fwd: [MYSTARA] Prestige Classes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_dd.8ec2016.26d82da2_boundary" --part1_dd.8ec2016.26d82da2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_dd.8ec2016.26d82da2_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: Deldain@aol.com Full-name: Deldain Message-ID: <73.6590c1c.26d82d8e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:14:06 EDT Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Prestige Classes To: erik@canadiensfan.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 108 In a message dated 8/25/00 11:51:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, erik@canadiensfan.com writes: << One of the reasons I dislike AD&D second edition (especially the players option rules).. and a potential problem I see developing out of 3E rules, is the preoccupation with specialty classes for every little variation on the base (the 2nd ed. kits were atrocious). >> I agree, the kits were a bit much. You don't need special rules for common professions such as guards, soliders, sailors, and so on, and that's what they tried to do. The outcome? It simply sucked. Which is why I'm not suggesting trying to make every single kit a prestige class. Maybe a prestige class should be somewhat, well, prestigious. << There is no reason why someone playing a Karameikan Knight needs to have a different class than someone playing a Darokinian soldier. I've found an unfortunate tendancy among gamers these days to insist that every little difference between characters be reflected in some sort of quatitative value on the character sheet. >> There I have to disagree. I think some specialty groups within a culture could deserve a prestige class if they hold some major weight in that culture. In Karameikos, which I've always seen as a very Arthurian-esqe kingdom, a knight is a very prestigious title (no pun intended, of course) and their background as such should seperate them from the common solider. Now in Darokin, a soldier is just a soldier since they're not really known for being big fighters anyway. However, a special version of a Darokin Merchant might be interesting to showcase how much more skilled they are in mercantile matters than most other traders. See what I'm getting at? Neither of these classes have to have alot of special bonuses to set them apart, maybe just a few added benefits to make them interesting to players. Prestige Classes shouldn't be a means to exploit rules or get 'new powers' they should be roleplaying tools and a way for players to customize their character. In other words, the way kits *should* have worked. << The difference between a Karameikan knight and a Darokinian soldier should be one of roleplaying, and have very little (if anything) to do with the character sheet. While a character sheet is an important tool during gaming sessions, and helps to ground players in what their characters may be capable of.. i've found that, despite what many may at first assume, the more detail +stats +abilities on a character sheet, the less freedom one experiences while roleplaying. >> I couldn't agree more. << From what I've seen of 3E, the basic classes outlined in the rules ought to be more than enough to play any sort of character you want to. >> And they are. But that won't stop player's from wanting to explore prestige classes any more than it stopped them from wanting to explore kits in 2e. Basically prestige classes give players a way to make their characters unique, and the way prestige classes work make it easier for the DM to accomidate specialized characters. My favorite idea behind p-classes thus far is that of roleplaying requirements. It lets you reward characters with another benefits besides just the standard gold, magic, and so. Say a character wants to join one of the Secret Craft, so you work out the details of the craft as a prestige class and set up various requirements such as convincing the members of the craft to let you in, gathering various items for them, etc., all of which have the potential to be the focus of several good gaming sessions. And what reward do they get at the end? You give them exp to take a level in the craft's prestige class, letting them get some new benefits and add to the depth of the character. Of course I'm not saying that p-classes will be for everyone. I know people who loved kits, and I know people who hated them. I'm sure that prestige classes will be the same way. It's just another option there for the DM and players use if they want it, nothing more. - Deldain --part1_dd.8ec2016.26d82da2_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:39:12 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Daly wrote: > > That's absolutely fascinating...know why? The guy's nickname is "Little > Ape" in the Averione home language. I'm willing to bet that French is the > original poster's native tongue, hence the confusion. Eh? Am I right? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Agathokles > To: > Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 9:34 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Monkey Sorceress? > > > > Federico Kaftal wrote: > > > No, we're both Italians. But in the Italian translation, the name was converted to "Gorillino", IIRC, which means exactly the same in Italian. That's the reason :) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 02:37:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > No disputing that. It's not the presence of spies, but the > sophistication. That is, medieval and earlier societies weren't > particularly known for their innovative intelligence gathering. > However magic totally alters the whole set-up of amassing and distributing intelligence. Magical scrying, covert entry, and extraction of assets will totally alter both espionage and counter-espionage settings to a very noticeable degree. E.g. "How current is this information?", "I just teleported back from the area.". Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:28:07 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [OT] 3e vs. 2e vs. oD&D Queation about Spell charts In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:25 AM 8/25/00 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 2000-08-24 3:03:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > >> I was thinking this: Need 10 ranks in an appropriate skill (Craft: Armorer, >> Craft: Weaponsmith, Craft: Bowyer, etc.) and the feat Craft Arms and Armor. >> This would allow the dwarf to endow weapons with plusses. > >Maybe we could count Craft ranks and/or character levels of a Dwarf >as an alternative to spellcasting level in the prerequisites for the feat? That's an idea. Sounds good to me! :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Easterholdian Bunrab] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 1:07:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > :-) Fair enough - perhaps these are the rarer, Greater Bunrabs? The more > common bunrabs (the non-chocolate-egg-loving variety) might be closer in > size to halflings. Of course we could give the Greater Bunrabs tremendous power as Illusionists as well as a total lack of fear, both granted to them by their patron Immortal, Bugs Bunrab. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystara Sorcerers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 11:54:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > Why do we *need* a canon reference for sorcerers to exist in Mystara or to be > able to join a secret craft? I think it's alot easier to judge whether or not > they exist depending on how you run your games rather than trying to find an > obscure passage mentions someone who is sorcerer-like. Especially since > there was nothing like sorcerers in previous editions, so the only thing that will > resemble them will be monsters or NPCs with special abilties! But there is one theory that would suggest the presence of at least one very prominent sorceress in Glantri. Recall that one of the theories for the abilities of sorcerers given in the 3E PHB is that they believe them- selves to be descended from dragons. For that theory to be at all plausible, dragons themselves must have some sort of obvious natural talent for sorcerous magic. And it just so happens that a certain princess is really a dragon -- so I used her abilities and limitations to model what Glantrian sorcerers might be capable of. Whether there are any other Sorcerers among the published NPCs is far less clear. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:10 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 11:55:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > I think that's not at all appropriate. The class was originally described > as one that experienced adventurers had to be asked into or petition to > join. Even if, for some reason, they weren't a prestige class, but a > standard one, changing into the Master class should remain an option, since > there's lots of small NPCs running around who've done it. But the Monk/Paladin-like multi-class restriction would not prevent anyone from becoming a Master -- what it would do is discourage anyone from giving it up once they became Masters. Surely that would be a desirable goal? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:09 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri (was Secret Crafts and 3E Mag... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 11:55:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > I'll check again. Is there no reference to children casting magic > having learned it on their own, sans instruction? Not on the page I referenced -- quite the contrary. Of course, there may be a contradictory reference elsewhere that I missed -- but if so I have overlooked it for over ten years. > >Furthermore, taking levels as a Sorcerer would be counterproductive, as > >adult Glantrian nobles do not ever seem to make use of their supposed > >Sorcerer abilities and (more importantly) the abilities of the two classes > >do not stack. > > I don't use my tree fort-building skills, but that doesn't mean I > didn't gain them as a child. I don't think stacking or not should make a difference. Actually I suspect that Glantrian nobles would regard the "skill" of Sorcery in much the same manner that parents and teachers once regarded the "skill" of writing left-handed -- they forced children who were inclined to do that to learn how to write right-handed and prevented them from writing right-handed. Given the importance of getting one's heirs to about 9th level or so as Wizards, it would seem likely that Glantrian nobles would force their children to become Wizards if at all possible and in the process supress them from learning any other form of magic, as doing so would slow down their progress in the Wizard class. For that matter, they would also discourage them from acquiring levels in mundane classes until they were sure that they could not be trained as Wizards. Of course, the situation would be very different with Elves (even noble Elves) and with commoners. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:13 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 10:47:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > As a side note, he is only able to cast those two spells (the polymorph > can be cast twice, IIRC). > Hope it helps, In this case he would not be a Wizard or a Sorcerer -- neither of these classes is able to learn such high level spells without picking up spells of all the lower levels in between. BTW, in "Mark of Amber" Petit-Singe is a "normal" 8th level human mage (at least, as "normal" as anyone associated with the d'Ambrevilles can be) who learned magic by secretly studying Etienne's spellbooks. We would have to know whether he copied those spells into spellbooks of his own or simply absorbed the knowledge to activate his own innate abilities before we could decide whether he is a Wizard or a Sorcerer -- but if he is a Sorcerer we would have to increase his charisma score to at least 14 from its initial 2E value of 8. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:17 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Monkey Sorceress? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 7:21:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > Still, there's a monkey (yes, a monkey!) in module "Castle Amber" which is > able to cast a spell like a Sorceror: i can't remember if she's said to have > been the victim of a mad experiment or if she just plainly LEARNED that > spell because of her long frequentation with the Amber family: could anybody > check this out, as I don't have the module with me? Others have pointed out that the monkey in question was in fact a short, deformed human. I will now provide the further correction that this "monkey" is definitely male, at least in _Mark of Amber_ (I cannot find _Castle Amber_ at the moment). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:16 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [3E] Prestige Class limits (was Early thoughts on c onverting...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 8:05:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.COM writes: > In a message dated 8/24/00 9:39:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM > writes: > > << Not needed. All prestige classes count as "preferred". >> > > Well I've heard people say that they are and aren't, so I'm really not sure. > Care to share the source? Because my original belief was that they were, I > just can't remember where I read it. I thought I saw it in Dragon #274, but I searched that issue and failed to find it there. The other possibility would be somewhere on Eric Noah's Web page, which I have not yet had the chance to search. I hope he didn't accidentally purge that information. Of course, if the information is there and not in Dragon, then it would go from being the official word to a fairly reliable to not so reliable rumor (depending on the source quoted). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:15 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 9:03:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > Why? There is _no_ reason to make up a "new class" for masters. Why don't > we make a "new class" for elven treekeepers too? When will it end? Then > Mystara will be a font for hundreds of "new classes", and it will be worse > than the FR. Why make the Halfling Master a new class? Because they have very distinctive abilities that set them apart from the Cleric and Druid classes, which are the standard classes they most resemble. With 35 spellcasting levels and seven levels of spells, they would need a full twenty levels in 3E to cover all of their potential abilities. What about Treekeepers? They may not need any sort of class -- they differ from normal Elves only in having access to a handful of spells that normal Elves cannot (or are not permitted to?) learn. We could thus make them either an elite group that is not a separate class (in other words, just a "club" that shares special spells and knowledge with its members) or we could come up with enough bonus powers to make them a prestige class. I have no recommendation on this one until a fuller spell analysis is completed. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:18 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Spellcasters in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 5:50:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > However, even though it is not > impossible to hone a less-attuned talent well enough to do sorcery, it is a > great deal more difficult because the mage must unlearn all the wrong > techniques of arcane magic and accept that magic is innate. This can be > a long, grueling process and most would-be sorcerers haven't the patience > and faith to see it through. Bingo -- that is what I was trying to get at when I pointed out that spellcasting levels in the different arcane spellcasting classes do not "stack". Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizards all have very distinct methods of using magic, and so a character who multi-classes from one of these classes to another basically has to start over in learning a new style of magic. Add that practical consideration to the relative rarity of talent for arcane spellcasting of any kind among Mystaran humans, and multi-classed combinations among these three classes should be very rare at best -- and even more so among the Glantrian nobility, who will generally do their best to keep their children on the "straight and narrow" path of a single-classed true Wizard. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Innate VS. Learned (was 3E Spellcasters in Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 4:55:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > Why > does Alphatia go out of its way to look for "magical potential" if not > because they long ago learned that there are many who have a > natural aptitude for magic and their powers tend to manifest with or > without training (Sorcerers). Perhaps enough of these magic-users > existed on their homeworld to garner a lasting respect for all those > naturally talented. Henceforth from that time, it became law to check > everyone for magical talent! But it begs the question of whether we are talking about a wizardly talent or a sorcerous talent. A sorcerous talent that is not caught and controlled early would be dangerous, since such a character could learn to use magic without training -- but a wizardly talent that is not caught and trained would basically be a wasted resource. Remember that the Alphatians came from a world where everyone had a minimal level of magical talent and thus they had a large pool of potential aristocrats to fill a variety of social roles. However, after they came to Mystara, the proportion of Alphatians born with arcane magic talent began to dwindle, so that roles once reserved to aristocratic Wizards had to be opened up to Clerics or even to commoners who through some fluke of genetics had the talent to learn arcane magic. Of course, one thing that should be noted is that most non-Wizards would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a Wizard and a Sorcerer. Even the ability to identify exactly what spells they cast would not prove anything, as both classes use the exact same spell list. The few characteristics that would definitively mark a character as being a Sorcerer rather than a Wizard are few and far between -- and many potential Sorcerers are shown to be standard Wizards by stray references to their spellbooks. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 2000-08-25 5:18:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > I think Beau wanted to better reflect the Master class as described=20 > in Gaz 8. Keep in mind, player characters who become Hin Masters using=20 > the Od&d rules switch over from their original class (generic=20 > halfling=E2=80=94fighter/ > rogue)! Prestige classes offer the chance to specialize in a similar way= =20 to=20 > Od&d. =20 Two points: 1) Except for a good ability to hide, OD&D Halflings have no real Rogue=20 abilities. The 2E conversion rules in the D&D Rules Cyclopedia give Fighter/Rogue as an optional alternative to single-classed Fighter, not as the single preferred class conversion. 2) Some of the more powerful Master abilities can be toned down via the basic assumption that a "standard" Master took eight levels as a Fighter before becoming a 1st level Master. Characters who become Masters at 1st level would then be rare not because they are not allowed but because they would not be able to go back later and pick up a level in the Fighter class so as to get decent armor and weapon choices. Socially, this could be covered by having an organizational restriction by which low level=20 Halflings are barred from becoming Masters when low level Human Clerics are available to help out. As for the prestige class -- it is the level compression thing that bothers me. They need a full spell progression chart similar to the Cleric, Druid, or Wizard class -- and that would be rather tough to do with only ten levels to play with. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:07 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-25 9:38:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > However magic totally alters the whole set-up of amassing and > distributing intelligence. Magical scrying, covert entry, and extraction of > assets will totally alter both espionage and counter-espionage settings to a > very noticeable degree. E.g. "How current is this information?", "I just > teleported back from the area.". One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", there is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At best you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through the gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:01:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", there > is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded > against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At best > you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through the > gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. Not that this negates the opportunities. You need a team... I'd say someone in the city who works in the right places, makes a report, takes it out of the city every so often (I'd make it a weird number that won't correspond directly to weeks or months), or passes the report along to a courier who will drop it off in a designated wilderness area. The mage teleports to designated area, picks up reports and other material and returns it. Very simple, very clean. Requires more manpower, but sidesteps the wards. :-) I do agree that magic makes many good ways to refine and enhance intelligence gathering. :-) -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:00:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:46 8/25/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-08-25 11:55:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > >> I think that's not at all appropriate. The class was originally >described >> as one that experienced adventurers had to be asked into or petition to >> join. Even if, for some reason, they weren't a prestige class, but a >> standard one, changing into the Master class should remain an option, since >> there's lots of small NPCs running around who've done it. > >But the Monk/Paladin-like multi-class restriction would not prevent anyone >from becoming a Master Ah. I misunderstood you. I thought you meant you HAD to start off as a Master. >-- what it would do is discourage anyone from giving >it up once they became Masters. Surely that would be a desirable goal? Why? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:05:02 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires In-Reply-To: <70.2807286.26d8978b@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:46 8/25/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >As for the prestige class -- it is the level compression thing that bothers >me. They need a full spell progression chart similar to the Cleric, Druid, >or Wizard class -- and that would be rather tough to do with only ten >levels to play with. I don't really think that Hin Masters need anything more substantial than the Bard's spell progression. Keep the unique spells, compress the levels, and voila. I don't know how much advantage there is to having the Master duplicate what's essentially a Wizard/Druid. Next contentious issue: What ability skill are Masters' spells linked to? I've already thought a bunch about Denial, which seems tailor-made to link to the 3E version of Charisma. Would their spells, too, be powered by their passion, or would Wisdom be more appropriate? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:56:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ezio Pignatelli Organization: SISSA Subject: Mystara Hollow World Conveyor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------CD8CC66396497441A9C8B4D9" --------------CD8CC66396497441A9C8B4D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I need a bit of information about a Mystara product I do not know. In GAZ13, "Children of Atruaghin", it is mentioned and described a "Conveyor" leading in the Hollow World from the Atruaghin Plateau. While the description of the machine is quite accurate, it completely misses the pieces of information related to the placement and characteristics of the side of the machine in the HW. In gaz13, it is stated that this infos are available in HWR1: Sons of Azca, which I do not own and I do not think have any chance to find easily. I have a player from Atruaghin, that stopped playing for a long while. Now my party is in the Hollow World playing the Blood Brethren trilogy, and I was thinking to let him reach them through the Conveyor. So, the questions: 1) Where does the Conveyor lead in the HW? 2) How much accurate is the description of HWR1? Any special feature? 3) Does in anyone know (in HWR1, in modules or as house-made material) of any adventure involving the conveyor? 4) Any idea? :)))) I would be grateful to anyone willing to share with me as detailed information as possible. And finally: 4) Is any of you willing to sell a copy of HWR1? :) -- Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 mailto:pignatel@sissa.it http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html -- --------------CD8CC66396497441A9C8B4D9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all,

I need a bit of information about a Mystara product I do not know.

In GAZ13, "Children of Atruaghin", it is mentioned and described a "Conveyor" leading in the Hollow World from the Atruaghin Plateau. While the description of the machine is quite accurate, it completely misses the pieces of information related to the placement and characteristics of the side of the machine in the HW. In gaz13, it is stated that this infos are available in HWR1:  Sons of Azca, which I do not own and I do not think have any chance to find easily.

I have a player from Atruaghin, that stopped playing for a long while. Now my party is in the Hollow World playing the Blood Brethren trilogy, and I was thinking to let him reach them through the Conveyor.

So, the questions:

1) Where does the Conveyor lead in the HW?

2) How much accurate is the description of HWR1? Any special feature?

3) Does in anyone know (in HWR1, in modules or as house-made material) of any adventure involving the conveyor?

4) Any idea? :))))

I would be grateful to anyone willing to share with me as detailed information as possible.
And finally:

4) Is any of you willing to sell a copy of HWR1? :) 

-- 
Ezio Pignatelli --- SISSA -- Room 9 
via Beirut 4 - 34014 Trieste - Italy
Phone: +39-040-3787525 Fax:+39-040-3787528 
mailto:pignatel@sissa.it  http://www.sissa.it/ap/pignatel.html
--
  --------------CD8CC66396497441A9C8B4D9-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:57:00 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Mystara Hollow World Conveyor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/26/00 3:23:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, pignatel@SISSA.IT writes: << 1) Where does the Conveyor lead in the HW? >> I remembered reading something about this in the PWA so I went back and scanned over the section on the Atruaghin Clans and all it mentions is that it leads to a corresponding temple in the Azcan Empire. Ironically enough, I had a chance to buy HWR1 at a local comic shop a few days ago, but didn't because I never thought I'd need it. I could go back and check to see if it's still for sale if you're interested. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:23:14 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Mystara Sorcerers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/25/00 8:54:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: << And it just so happens that a certain princess is really a dragon -- so I used her abilities and limitations to model what Glantrian sorcerers might be capable of. >> Yes but Dolores Hillsbury's abilities come directly from the fact that she is a dragon. Which goes back to my previous statement about the only references to sorcerer-like characters would be monsters (such as the innate spellcasting abilties of dragons) or NPCs who have unique abilities (such as the 'monkey' spellcaster mentioned in another post). It's hard to find a concrete reference in any canon material because, as we all know, there weren't any sorcerers then, and no guess could be made that sorcerers would one day exist in the game. But getting back to the point, there are plenty of references to people with magic 'potential' that have been mentioned, which can be taken either way. If you want sorcerers in your game, you can simply state these people, a good example being the Progeny, are sorcerers. If not, you can say that magic potential is the potential for learning spells and becoming a wizard. It's easier just to find good interpretations rather than solid evidence, considering all the evidence has no basis in the new edition. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:24:27 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: [3E] Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires" In-Reply-To: <42.9f14fd6.26d89787@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > Why make the Halfling Master a new class? Because they have very > distinctive abilities that set them apart from the Cleric and Druid classes, > which are the standard classes they most resemble. With 35 spellcasting > levels and seven levels of spells, they would need a full twenty levels in 3E > to cover all of their potential abilities. That's not the point. You can't make a 1 to 1 translation of the Halfling master - A) Because it was overpowered in oD&D anyway, and B) Because there is no need to create a new "class" for only halflings (which the Master was in the first place). It's easy enough to strip down the spell levels, get rid of extemporaneous spells, and consolidate powers into 10 levels. The hard part is determining how much chaff to cut out. Balance balance balance. Read the new Dragon. Read the Mystic (damn confusing names) Prestige class. That's pretty powerful, and only has 10 levels. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:30:27 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Mystara Hollow World Conveyor Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:56:38 Ezio Pignatelli wrote: >Hi all, > >I need a bit of information about a Mystara product I do not know. > >In GAZ13, "Children of Atruaghin", it is mentioned and described a "Conveyor" leading in >the Hollow World from the Atruaghin Plateau. Just to be pendantic :) , that's actually Gaz14: "The Atruaghin Clans" (Gaz 13 is "The Shadowelves"). > While the description of the machine is quite >accurate, it completely misses the pieces of information related to the placement and >characteristics of the side of the machine in the HW. In gaz13, it is stated that this >infos are available in HWR1: Sons of Azca, which I do not own and I do not think have any >chance to find easily. > Actually, the Atruaghin gaz does mention on page 30 of the referee's guide that "Atruaghin began his project by creating a shaft that ran from the ruins of his palace temple in Quauhnahuac to the region of the jungles that stands between the lands of the Tiger Clan and the Horse Clan. Once the shaft was completed, he built a temple on the surface world that mirrored the one in Quauhnahuacin every detail". So it's very obvious that the HW temple is in Quauhnahuac. However, I would recommend the Sons of Azca accessory, as it is just as good as any of the other accessories or some gazetteers. I just checked who currently sell it for $8.72, which I think is pretty cheep, just choose RPG, then AD&D, and then AD&D Dungeons and Dragons (don't ask me why? Probably to avoid confusion with the 'new' D&D 3e). If you buy it, you'll find the information you seek on p.43 in the main booklet, although it won't tell you much more than I do here. >I have a player from Atruaghin, that stopped playing for a long while. Now my party is in >the Hollow World playing the Blood Brethren trilogy, and I was thinking to let him reach >them through the Conveyor. > Good idea, I think. The conveyor is supposed to be very secret, but let's face it - how often do we use it for anything at all? >So, the questions: > >1) Where does the Conveyor lead in the HW? > The ruins of Atruaghin's temple in Quauhnahuac in the Azcan Empire. You won't find it on the map of the Sons of Azca accessory, though, because it lies 90 miles north-east of the old lighthouse at Titlapoca, and that's already too far north to be on the map of the Azcan Empire :( >2) How much accurate is the description of HWR1? Any special feature? > I think it's as accurate or inaccurate as you could hope. I haven't seen anything to contradict the information in Gaz 14 in the Sons of Azca accessory or any other product, but I admit that I haven't read those sources as extensively as some others... like DOTE or WOTI :) >3) Does in anyone know (in HWR1, in modules or as house-made material) of any adventure >involving the conveyor? > Can't think of any, no. >4) Any idea? :)))) > Hah. I think the reason why few people have used these is primarily because they are slightly boring. Well, IMHO, obviously, but has anybody used these? >I would be grateful to anyone willing to share with me as detailed information as >possible. I hope it was sufficient. Otherwise, just ask again. Mind you, the Sons of Azca book really doesn't have that much more information to offer on this subject. >And finally: > >4) Is any of you willing to sell a copy of HWR1? :) > Unlikely, as it's a good book, but look on cyberdungeon if you're interested - I've had good experience with dealing with them (and they accept VISA) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:46:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000825220502.007c87a0@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:05 PM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Next contentious issue: What ability skill are Masters' spells linked to? >I've already thought a bunch about Denial, which seems tailor-made to link >to the 3E version of Charisma. Would their spells, too, be powered by their >passion, or would Wisdom be more appropriate? That's a good question. I think I'd be inclined to say Wisdom, since the Gaz mentions that they get their powers from the halfling High Heroes (IIRC), and thus would seem to be almost clerical in nature. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:50:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Mystara Hollow World Conveyor In-Reply-To: <39A77836.1386F03B@sissa.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:56 AM 8/26/00 +0200, you wrote: > Where does the Conveyor lead in the HW? It comes out in the ruins of Quahnahuac, which is northeast of the capitol city of the Azca, IIRC. Don't believe it's on a map (it might be, though.) >Any special feature? Not really. Not sure what you mean. There is some sort of spell around the conveyor that will make people avoid it, IIRC. And degenerate former followers of Atruaghin live in the ruined city in the Hollow World. >Does in anyone know (in HWR1, in modules or as house-made >material) of any adventure involving the conveyor? Nope. >And finally: Is any of you willing to sell a copy of HWR1? :) If I had more than one, sure. As is... sorry to say no. ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:52:12 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: 3E Spellcasters in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/25/00 11:54:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM= =20 writes: > Bingo -- that is what I was trying to get at when I pointed out that > spellcasting levels in the different arcane spellcasting classes do not=20 > "stack". Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizards all have very distinct=20 > methods of using magic, and so a character who multi-classes=20 > from one of these classes to anotherbasically has to start over in=20 > learning a new style of magic. > and multi-classed combinations among these three classes should be=20 > very rare at best -- and even more so among the Glantrian nobility, NOTE: The following assumes you see Sorcery as the SAME innate=20 gift that arcane magic-users use to produce magic, only in Sorcerers=20 it is already naturally attuned. If one holds the alternate viewpoint that=20 the abilities necessary to create sorcery and arcane magic are entirely=20 different and separate then the following doesn't really apply. Then,=20 one can easily imagine that characters with both gifts can learn both=20 magical disciplines.=20 To keep multiclassing appropriately rare (for those of you whom=20 favor this option), simply make Sorcery something characters either=20 have to learn from a Sorcerer, or research (& experiment) thoroughly=20 in order to gain a proper understanding of it. This research may be=20 costly and extremely difficult, even with a sorcerer training the mage. =20 The difficulty is specifically because "unlearning" arcane-style magic=20 is very hard=E2=80=94an "arcanist" must stop even believing in the theories=20= of=20 magic she/he was taught and learn to "feel" magic. Also, the greater=20 the level of the arcanist character, the more difficult it will be to learn=20 sorcery. Perhaps after the fundamentals of sorcery are learned (yield- ing the first level), it becomes easier. But it is likely that it does not,= =20 as the arcanist tends to still believe in all the arcane magic theories=20 she's learned and thus can only progress slowly. [I leave it up to indi- vidual GMs to decide if they want to make research more likely to fail,=20 or impose a XP penalty (or even both).] If a GM deems that any character has truly unlearned arcane=20 magic, and totally turned his back on arcane theory, then the charac- ter MAY advance as a Sorcerer without penalty. However, due to=20 their new understanding of the "truth of magic" (that sorcery is the=20 "pure" manipulation of magic using only natural aptitude & thus can=20 only be learned if one is gifted in it=E2=80=94see note at top), the new sor= - cerer is no longer able to believe in any arcane theories and any=20 attempts to advance as an arcanist are greatly hindered by their=20 doubts. Also, once fully "converted" to a new Sorcerer, the=20 character can never go back to arcane magic, as her viewpoint=20 has been forever changed. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:30:03 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: Church of Saimpt Joan Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Erik Waddell wrote: <> First of all, this is very interesting stuff, but let me make two comments. First one is linguistic: it's saint, not saimpt (you've been fooled by Bruce Heard's self-willed mis-spelling of the noun). :) Second point: << When it became clear to the assembled leaders that Edward intended to ally with neither of them, for he wished to keep his people out of the war, the Flaemish diplomat began to cast a fiery spell intended to kill all but himself and his party. However, Joan, now on the path to immortality (having been saved from her fiery death by Razud, her patrol immortal), intervened to save her brother. Tapping into the power of the sword of James Moorcroft (a lost artifact of the Fen people that the Flaemish leaders had brought along as a bargaining piece with Edward), Joan caused the spell to go awry. Enhanced by the magic of the sword, a torrent of magical flame engulfed the ! entire hillside. Protected by his semi-immortal sister, Edward survived the magical holocaust and was transported to his sister's side on another plane. Some time later, around 900 AC Edward Moorcroft re-appeared on Mystara to a small group of people in Fenswick. He prophesied the return of the plague to Glantri, but promised that those who would follow the example of Joan would be saved from the worst of the plague as he himself was saved so long ago. Edward then vanished from Mystara once more, but promised to return when the people of Fenswick are in need, and call upon Joan to deliver them from the plague. >> Now, may I ask u why was a near immortal permitted to intervene in mundane facts? Wasn't Joan reprimanded for this misbehaviour? My point is: how was she able to tap into the powers of an artifact if she was still a mortal? And if she wasn't, why hasn't she been punished for violating the Immortal law so openly (and Razud allowing her to do it is just incredible!) Also, why did she need to save his brother? Only to have him appear a century after to prophesize another plague? Couldn't she herself appear and do it? IMHO it would be better if u worded the event leaving St Joan out and saying that the artifact sword Edward possessed reacted in self defense against the fiery assault and protected his wielder and itself teleporting somewhere else. Then the Alphatians thought the Flaems wanted to kill em all and responded with other spells, which led to a final explosion to which only Halzunthram escaped. Then Edward returned after a few years (the teleport had make him go far astray) and led the Fen people out of the war, and prophesized the coming of the plague at the end of his days, saying he was receiving visions from his sister.. The remaining stuff fits nicely. <> You could say the apostle elaborated on Halz perceptions on what happened and the legend was told about St Joan's intervention at the side of his brother. <> Who are these Fen witches?? The ones described in an old article on the MML ? And also, who's this Tybboch u keep mentioning in the end? An Immortal from your campaign, right? Who's his closest similar in standard Mystaran pantheons? All said, I still think this is a good article. well done Erik! :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:51:22 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Neo-Sorcerer (was 3E Spellcasters in Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/26/00 9:12:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: > To keep multiclassing appropriately rare (for those of you whom=20 I think all the controversy over the sorcery issue here presents an=20 opportunity to all Mystaraphiles willing to be open-minded. I suggest that if we cannot fully reconcile sorcerers with arcanists (mages), then=20 why not create a new class that blends the best qualities of sorcery=20 and arcane magic! Actually little more than a new school of magic,=20 it would simply permit a mage character the ability to cast spells w/o=20 using verbal, somatic or material components. This "Neo-Sorcerer"=20 would otherwise mirror the casting abilities of a standard mage. The=20 casting times of every spell remain the same, but the sorcerer can now=20 cast spells WITHOUT CHOOSING THEM IN ADVANCE! This one ad- vantage makes it worth considering this "watered-down" version of the sorcerer. In addition, the Neo-Sorcerer can research a spell to create=20 a new version of the same spell that can be cast faster than the old. =20 Or maybe metamagic effects can accomplish this better? [Again,=20 note that the Neo-Sorcerer would be treated like a mage who special- izes in the school/discipline of Sorcery.] However, to help balance the=20 class, no bonus spells would be granted (if 3E even has this rule). =20 Also, for Sorcerer/Mage combinations, consider making new sorcery=20 spells twice as difficult to learn than arcane (to simulate the mage=20 having to research how to cast it without any components). If the=20 class still seems too powerful, the number of spells cast per level=20 can be trimmed some=E2=80=94 but not as far as true Sorcerers.=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:30:36 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: 3E Hin Masters (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/26/00 5:09:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > =20 > > Why make the Halfling Master a new class? Because they have very > > distinctive abilities that set them apart from the Cleric and Druid=20 > > classes, which are the standard classes they most resemble. With 35=20 > > spellcasting levels and seven levels of spells, they would need a full=20 > > twenty levels in 3E to cover all of their potential abilities. > > That's not the point. You can't make a 1 to 1 translation of the Halfling > master - A) Because it was overpowered in oD&D anyway, and B)=20 > Because there is no need to create a new "class" for only halflings (whic= h=20 > the Master was in the first place). "New" class=E2=80=94like you said, that's what it was in the first place= . NOW=20 people are simply trying to translate it into 3E. And if new classes were=20 such a dirty concept would WotC have created the Sorcerer or be including rules for creating new classes (exactly what we're discussing)? =20 =20 > It's easy enough to strip down the spell levels, get rid of extemporaneou= s > spells, and consolidate powers into 10 levels. The hard part is > determining how much chaff to cut out. Balance balance balance. Read the > new Dragon. Read the Mystic (damn confusing names) Prestige class. That's > pretty powerful, and only has 10 levels. I started out thinking that a Hin Master class would be cool, but some =20 posts convinced me that making the Hin Master a prestige class would be=20 the best route, but now I am back to favoring an actual Master class. =20 Here's my thinking: if a character must be *invited* to join the Masters, i= s=20 allowing a character to then multi-class in the Master class really much=20 different from a prestige class (but with more levels available)? Now, if=20 prestige class levels require as little XP as normal classes, then I do see=20 a big problem. Otherwise, it just seems like we've overlooked a useful=20 tool in this "invitation" requirement. If various conditions in the game=20 world=20 forbid players from multi-classing in certain classes, what's the big deal? If players whine, you just get to remind them, "when you GM you can do=20 things like that!". Now, anyone who wants a full class can feel OK about=20 it=E2=80=94it won't cause the empires of Mystara to topple! I still want to= see the=20 Hin master prestige classes you guys come up with though, they sound=20 very cool too! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:07:48 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 3E half-breeds and Mystara MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Without restarting the Freefloating Half-Elf Debate (PLEASE!), are there any other canonical references to anything like the AD&D half-orc or half-ogre in Mystara? After too long of a PHB absence, it seems that the half-orc is now cool for the first time ever. Do they exist in Mystara? Also, the WotC page has the half-dragon template (!) up now at their site. While it makes for a pretty awful character race (unless everyone in a play group is one, or the other characters start with at least a two level head start), it's an interesting glimpse at an extreme example of the Progeny. Anyone know how it compares to the "Council of Wyrms" race? Anyone interested in statting out how the Mystaran dragon variants would work under the template? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 20:09:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Secular humanism and Glantri MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), it occurs to me that Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a campaign-cum-morality play about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. I'm thinking grabbing Synn, the "Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade" supplement "Infernalism" and (no kidding) the Silver Swan Society from the Complete Wizard's Handbook and tossing them into a Harry Potter-inspired GSoM campaign and setting the blender on frappe. Sound workable? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:31:55 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: [MYSTARA: 3E] Converting Five Shires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/26/00 8:51:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET= =20 writes: > > Next contentious issue: What ability skill are Masters' spells=20 linked > >to? I've already thought a bunch about Denial, which seems tailor- > >made to link to the 3E version of Charisma. Would their spells, too, be=20 > >powered by their passion, or would Wisdom be more appropriate? > =20 > That's a good question. I think I'd be inclined to say Wisdom, since the > Gaz mentions that they get their powers from the halfling High Heroes > (IIRC), and thus would seem to be almost clerical in nature. > =20 My take on the Hin is that perhaps their denial might be the High=20 Hereos showing their favor toward a PC (due to the PC's actions in=20 defending the Shires) once she/he reaches Od&d's 5th level. And=20 personally, I think it would be very cool if it were linked to the "Pro- tective powers of Blackflame" (described on p.17 of Gaz 8's DM's=20 book). What if denial was granted by the Keepers to all heroic=20 Hin in the Shires? One would have to assume that the "protective=20 powers" are gained due to small amounts of Blackflame remaining=20 inside anyhin who absorbs Blackflame. This residual Blackflame=20 then imparts both the protective powers and denial=E2=80=94they are both=20 sort of anti-normal magic in nature. When a Keeper grants a hin=20 the denial ability he absorbs a tiny amount of Blackflame and goes=20 to the recipient (thus the crucible isn't revealed). He exposes the=20 recipient to only that tiny amount just enough to gain denial but not=20 quite enough to gain the protective powers. Any takers? =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:43:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: 3E half-breeds and Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/26/00 11:29:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > Without restarting the Freefloating Half-Elf Debate (PLEASE!), are= =20 > there any other canonical references to anything like the AD&D half- > orc or half-ogre in Mystara? Yeppers! 8-> Just yesterday I noticed a half-orc reference in Gaz=20 11 (Darokin) on p.27 of the DM's book. There's those half-ogres in SE=20 Davania mentioned in VotPA. Keep in mind Ogremoor (Ogre homeland=20 in Broken Lands) borders much of nort central Darokin, with the many=20 monster raids over the centuries, I'm sure a whole sub-race of half-ogres=20 exists there! [Ogres kidnap women in raids=E2=80=94they're very lascivious!= ] =20 But even if there weren't any canon references, were you really going=20 to let that stop you? :) =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:47:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Mystara Hollow World Conveyor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >3) Does in anyone know (in HWR1, in modules or as house-made material) of any adventure > >involving the conveyor? > > > > Can't think of any, no. > Actually I once jokingly mentioned to the guy doing the Blackmoor resurgent stuff about the Blackmoorians Gaining control of the elevator to beam power directly from inner to outer world and vice versa. I wonder If he ever used the idea. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 04:53:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 2000-08-25 9:38:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > > > However magic totally alters the whole set-up of amassing and > > distributing intelligence. Magical scrying, covert entry, and extraction of > > assets will totally alter both espionage and counter-espionage settings to > a > > very noticeable degree. E.g. "How current is this information?", "I just > > teleported back from the area.". > > One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", there > is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded > against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At best > you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through the > gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. > So sorry all these mighty magics fail on last day of year. No tickee, no washee! Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:01:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Secular humanism and Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/26/00 11:29:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), it occurs to m= e=20 > that Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a campaign-cum-morality=20 > play about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. > I'm thinking grabbing Synn, the "Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade"=20 > supplement "Infernalism" and (no kidding) the Silver Swan Society from=20 > the Complete Wizard's Handbook and tossing them into a Harry Potter- > inspired GSoM campaign and setting the blender on frappe. > Sound workable? Sounds like it's sure to be a sin (ha-get it? "lapsed Catholic" +=20 sin/Synn =3D a joke, I'm so funny! 8->)! Just be *certain* to post a des- cription once done so we can all plagiarize. That's a good example of=20 utilizing lots of resources to do some of the creative process for you. =20 Wait, that's plagiarism too! :) =E2=80=94Shawn J.=20 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 21:20:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: I just want to take a moment... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ' To note that I am happy to have found three Gazetteer modules (Orcs of Thar and the two elven books). Now if Only I could find the *human* kingdoms... -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:29:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E half-breeds and Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-26 11:29:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Without restarting the Freefloating Half-Elf Debate (PLEASE!), are there > any other canonical references to anything like the AD&D half-orc or > half-ogre in Mystara? After too long of a PHB absence, it seems that the > half-orc is now cool for the first time ever. Do they exist in Mystara? In addition to a number of ambiguous references, both Gaz 3 and Gaz 10 make reference to a "human" wizard whose mother was human and whose father was Thar, who was either an Orc or an abandoned deformed Shadow Elf. Either way, Angus McDuff was an ugly little boy who was taunted as "Orc-Face" by his peers. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:29:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Secular humanism and Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-26 11:29:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), it occurs to me > that > Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a campaign-cum-morality play > about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. > I'm thinking grabbing Synn, the "Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade" > supplement > "Infernalism" and (no kidding) the Silver Swan Society from the Complete > Wizard's Handbook and tossing them into a Harry Potter-inspired GSoM > campaign and setting the blender on frappe. > Sound workable? Absolutely! While you are at it, you could try incorporating some references that seemed obvious at the time of publication of Gaz 3. Think back to the Cold War and an old Avalon Hill game called "Kremlin". Along comes Gaz 3, which describes an officially atheistic multi-ethnic nation bound together by an ideology not shared by less restrictive nations such as Darokin and filled with intrigue at the highest levels of government. Stir well, and Glantri has much in common with the old U.S.S.R. immediately prior to its collapse. Turn up the heat and have fun! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:34:26 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E half-breeds and Mystara In-Reply-To: <6d.89710a5.26d9e861@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 23:43 8/26/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: > Yeppers! 8-> Just yesterday I noticed a half-orc reference in Gaz=20 >11 (Darokin) on p.27 of the DM's book. There's those half-ogres in SE=20 >Davania mentioned in VotPA. Keep in mind Ogremoor (Ogre homeland=20 >in Broken Lands) borders much of nort central Darokin, with the many=20 >monster raids over the centuries, I'm sure a whole sub-race of half-ogres= =20 >exists there! [Ogres kidnap women in raids=E2=80=94they're very= lascivious!] =20 >But even if there weren't any canon references, were you really going=20 >to let that stop you? :) No, but it serves to slow down the attacks. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:36:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: I just want to take a moment... In-Reply-To: <39A896FF.2EF0E1AD@teleport.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:20 8/26/00 -0700, Deirdre M. Brooks wrote: >' >To note that I am happy to have found three Gazetteer modules (Orcs of >Thar and the two elven books). > >Now if Only I could find the *human* kingdoms... Beau's heresy du jour: You can get the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets quite easily on eBay. And while we may be poor deluded fools, my playing group likes what's come out of the boxed sets quite well. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 01:43:29 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Secular humanism and Glantri In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:29 8/27/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-08-26 11:29:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > >> Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), it occurs to me >> that >> Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a campaign-cum-morality play >> about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. >> I'm thinking grabbing Synn, the "Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade" >> supplement >> "Infernalism" and (no kidding) the Silver Swan Society from the Complete >> Wizard's Handbook and tossing them into a Harry Potter-inspired GSoM >> campaign and setting the blender on frappe. >> Sound workable? > >Absolutely! While you are at it, you could try incorporating some references >that seemed obvious at the time of publication of Gaz 3. Think back to the >Cold War and an old Avalon Hill game called "Kremlin". Along comes Gaz 3, >which describes an officially atheistic multi-ethnic nation bound together by >an ideology not shared by less restrictive nations such as Darokin and filled >with intrigue at the highest levels of government. Stir well, and Glantri has >much in common with the old U.S.S.R. immediately prior to its collapse. >Turn up the heat and have fun! Good thoughts. My main goal would be to make the players be REALLY sorry there's no clerics in Glantri. I know that Synn is aligned with the Sphere of Entropy, not with AD&D evil outer planes, but I'm going to link those forces into one continuum, with wizards being tempted by succubi, students who may or may not be cambions and alu-demons and a whole lot of wizards selling their souls for power. Without an in-country defense against such things -- a Bless spell would go a long way -- the Glantrians are ripe for trouble. Now I've got a vision of a M-KGB-type Glantian secret police responsible for stamping out religiosity and inadvertantly helping clear the field for infernalists ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:02:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) > >David Knott wrote: >> >> One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", there >> is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded >> against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At best >> you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through the >> gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. Very interesting! I would think that, perhaps, cities with populations of 20,000 or greater, or perhaps those lying in strategic locations (ports, junctions on main trade roads, etc.) would be those cities so protected. Xenya wrote: Where there's a will (and secrets to be had) there's a way. I hope my upcoming spy article will be able to build on what I've already done, and sate the hunger of some of you for these things. Already there will be at least three articles in total - maybe more...? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:03:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is handled in the savage coast( as per dragon articles) by the use of mirrors that allow people to pass things to each other over huge distances. the hulean agents in jaibul used one if memory serves. mortus. > Not that this negates the opportunities. You need a team... I'd say > someone in the city who works in the right places, makes a report, takes > it out of the city every so often (I'd make it a weird number that won't > correspond directly to weeks or months), or passes the report along to a > courier who will drop it off in a designated wilderness area. The mage > teleports to designated area, picks up reports and other material and > returns it. > > Very simple, very clean. Requires more manpower, but sidesteps the > wards. :-) > > I do agree that magic makes many good ways to refine and enhance > intelligence gathering. :-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:29:45 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: NPC: Hargul In-Reply-To: <00a701c01043$e00d5fc0$b8d9869f@pbncomputer> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's another NPC. As always, comments are criticism are appreciated. Hargul History: Hargul was born 29 years ago to two members of the Hooplak tribe. >From a young age, he showed a desire to learn, a rather uncommon characteristic among his people. He apprenticed himself to one of the tribal shamans and soon had earned that title for himself. After his teacher was slain by Ethengarian raiders 4 years ago, he has served as the secondary shaman for his tribe. Around the same time, he was wed to a wolf warrior named Xigazi. They are currently expecting their first child. Personality: Hargul has great pride in the Hooplaks. As a result, he is quick to speak out against any attempts to place the tribe under the rule of the Great Khan or the throne of Hobgobland. He feels such acts would be betrayal of the will of the spirits who have guided his people throughough the ages. Hargul is a scholar of fair skill, and knows it - he can be very condescending to those who do not possess the same abilities or interests, namely almost all Hooplaks. While he considers his tribe to be far superior to any other grouping, he is not arrogant - he sees himself as a modest follower of the will of the spiirts. He is not as brave and foolhardy as some of his kin, picking his fights carefully and wisely. A devoted husband, he would become quite distraught if anything were to happen to his beloved bride. Appearance: Hargul stands 6'4" and is of average build, hardly imposing by hobgoblin standards, though fairly large to humans. He has the light tan skin of a Goblinus Grandis, but his hair is a light green, quite unusual. He wears gerbil furs tied to the corners of his tunic, indicating his totem (Hooplak hobgoblins practice Ethengari shamanism, rather than typical humanoid shamanism). Combat Notes: He is a 4th-level hobgoblin shaman. AC 8; hp 25; at by spell or hand axe; D by spell or 1-6; save C4 or F4; ML 11; Al C; S 12, I 14, W 16, D 11, Co 9, Ch 8. Languages: Hobgoblin [Hooplak], Chaotic, Ethengari, Tharian. General Skills: Spirit Lore (W), Alertness (D), Literacy (I), Danger Sense (W), Storyteller (Ch). Spells: 2/1 (command word, trance and produce fire are his most commonly used spells). DMing Notes: Hargul could serve as a mentor or leader for Hooplak hobgoblin characters, guiding them to prominence so that they can lead the tribe back to glory. He can serve as an adversary for humanoids or Ethengari characters, possessing unusual abilities for a hobgoblin, and holding a position of prominence in a tribe hundreds strong. His role as an adversary may be most evident if a bratak or hobgoblin emissary wishes to try to develop ties to the Hooplaks to strengthen their khan - Hargul will be the most vocal critics of either type of alliance. - Mischa Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching people to love, but to use violence to get what they want. That's why the greatest destroyer of peace is abortion. - Mother Teresa ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:54:25 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", there > >> is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded > >> against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At best > >> you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through the > >> gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. > > Very interesting! I would think that, perhaps, cities with populations of > 20,000 or greater, or perhaps those lying in strategic locations (ports, > junctions on main trade roads, etc.) would be those cities so protected. > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from teleportation and such. Which probably means that there are now several permanent, possibly large, magic items doing the job. The subversion, destruction or theft of such items now becomes a major espionage activity. A quick dispel magic successfully thrown at one would also allow your spies to use teleportation when it's not supposed to be usable. Bribing the creator of the many new devices which will probably be asked for, so that he is including passwords so your spies can use their teleports in the enemies areas is also a major coup. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:42:53 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Strange times in Glantri (was Re: Secular humanism and Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/27/00 5:04:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > Good thoughts. My main goal would be to make the players be =20 > REALLY sorry > there's no clerics in Glantri. I know that Synn is aligned with the Spher= e > of Entropy, not with AD&D evil outer planes, but I'm going to link those > forces into one continuum, with wizards being tempted by succubi, student= s > who may or may not be cambions and alu-demons and a whole lot of wizards > selling their souls for power. Entropy can be considered evil since it represents many things nor- mally considered evil: chaos, destruction, decay, sadism, and death. > Without an in-country defense against such things -- a Bless spel= l=20 > would go a long way -- the Glantrians are ripe for trouble. > Now I've got a vision of a M-KGB-type Glantian secret police=20 > responsible for stamping out religiosity and inadvertantly helping clear=20 > the field for infernalists ... What if, like the USSR, Glantri's society were running out of time, ex- cept not from economic collapse, but rather a collapse beneath reckless=20 magic. The "open-invitation" to lower planar-beings has been accepted=20 and a virtual flood opens up. Of course, it would be up to PCs to see=20 the signs of this oncoming deluge and prevent it. And that KGB could=20 also take on the role of the MIB (men in black), trying to hold down=20 what they know is an inevitable invasion (can you say X-files?). Might=20 the PCs even be hired by them to clean up some mess? Glantri=E2=80=94 damned witch's cauldron of intrigue, strangeness and mayhem! =20 [BTW, if you couldn't tell, I think your & David K's ideas radiate much=20 coolness. I already wanted Gaz 3, but know I'm literally itching for it! =20 What enchantment did you guys cast on those posts?! 8-) ] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:50:08 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: I just want to take a moment... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau Yarbrough wrote: > > Beau's heresy du jour: > You can get the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets quite easily on eBay. > And while we may be poor deluded fools, my playing group likes what's come > out of the boxed sets quite well. I thought I mentioned I'd found the boxed sets in a local store. I'm looking for the *Gazetteer* modules. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:16:51 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/27/00 11:23:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > > One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", ther= e > >> is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded > >> against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At=20 > >> best you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter=20 > >> through the gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. > =20 > Very interesting! I would think that, perhaps, cities with populations o= f > 20,000 or greater, or perhaps those lying in strategic locations (ports, > junctions on main trade roads, etc.) would be those cities so protected. > =20 I agree, but I think the key word here is "major". I would say the=20 majority of even large cities in Mystara should not be considered "major"=20 (i.e. important/powerful) for this purpose. Such an immense warding=20 that targets ONLY teleportation without negating other magics (perhaps=20 an anti-magic shell would be preferable), would be a great undertaking=20 for even a whole guild of accomplished wizards. Thus, only truly power- ful cities like Thyatis, Darokin, Glantri City, and most Alphatian capitals=20 would have the power and resources (money AND available high-level=20 wizards) necessary to ward an ENTIRE city. Other, more "backwater,"=20 cities like Specularum or even Corunglain, would not. =20 Of course, one can always allow Mystara to have the oodles of=20 magic some game products describe, but it will just cheapen the=20 significance of magic. Magic shouldn't be the fantasy equivalent of=20 technology. Magic loses most of its mystery when it is used every- where, for everything. PCs should be in awe of magic as powerful as=20 that warding an entire city, but how can they if it's more common than=20 protective walls! Some canon material is very over the top=E2=80=94it's a=20 wonder Mystara hasn't become the official "Monty Haul" game world!=20 [Albeit, I'm sure there's a different kind of fun to have in a "power-play" campaign where magic plays the same role as technology (especially=20 the awesomely powerful kind) would in a sci-fi RPG.] =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:26:38 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What if the PCs went 500 years into Mystara's future, what=20 would they find? What if they found a world where powerful=20 magic and burgeoning, steam-age technology had collided? If=20 you've seen ads for the upcoming vidgame "Arcanum: of Steam- works & Magick Obscura", then you have a good idea of what=20 I'm thinking. This would make a slick alternate Mystara, or at=20 least a cool mini-campaign using chronomancy to time-travel!=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:56:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 15:26 8/27/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: > What if the PCs went 500 years into Mystara's future, what >would they find? What if they found a world where powerful >magic and burgeoning, steam-age technology had collided? If >you've seen ads for the upcoming vidgame "Arcanum: of Steam- >works & Magick Obscura", then you have a good idea of what >I'm thinking. This would make a slick alternate Mystara, or at >least a cool mini-campaign using chronomancy to time-travel! Hmm. That would be cool. It'd require the Nucleus of the Spheres to get repaired for real, though ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:09:14 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, SR Johnson wrote: > What if the PCs went 500 years into Mystara's future, what > would they find? What if they found a world where powerful > magic and burgeoning, steam-age technology had collided? If > you've seen ads for the upcoming vidgame "Arcanum: of Steam- > works & Magick Obscura", then you have a good idea of what > I'm thinking. This would make a slick alternate Mystara, or at > least a cool mini-campaign using chronomancy to time-travel! I've worked on a similar steampunk setting in modern Mystara. Not a huge, world-spanning society, but a city of technomancy. Check out Thimhallan on Stan's page. Note to the wary, it isn't done yet :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:22:02 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I agree - only major cities could even consider having such protection. However, cities with substantial numbers of wizards would face opposition to such a ward, since it would prevent any city resident from teleporting (or casting any other spell, if an anti-magic shell is used) in or out. More likely, important locations have several spells cast on them (anti-teleportation and anti scrying); such locations would be, e.g., important government buildings as well as wizards' towers (the wizard could always leave a small non-shielded are for his own use) --Eyal > I agree, but I think the key word here is "major". I would say the >majority of even large cities in Mystara should not be considered "major" >(i.e. important/powerful) for this purpose. Such an immense warding >that targets ONLY teleportation without negating other magics (perhaps >an anti-magic shell would be preferable), would be a great undertaking >for even a whole guild of accomplished wizards. Thus, only truly power- >ful cities like Thyatis, Darokin, Glantri City, and most Alphatian capitals >would have the power and resources (money AND available high-level >wizards) necessary to ward an ENTIRE city. Other, more "backwater," >cities like Specularum or even Corunglain, would not. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:37:30 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: [GANDERG@tc.gc.ca: Easterholdian Bunrab] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :-) Fair enough - perhaps these are the rarer, Greater Bunrabs? The more common bunrabs (the non-chocolate-egg-loving variety) might be closer in size to halflings. Don't forget their deadly kick attack when cornered. Also, their leap-charge attack (like the goat menof the savage coast.) BoBoII ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:43:57 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Children of Atruaghin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my recent list of Mystaran barbarians, I compleatly overlooked these folks. Begging for Barbarian! Then again, I often overlook Atruaghin, cause it seems sooooo HW to me. Maybe now I can convince a player to try a Atruaghin barbarian. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:18:14 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/27/00 12:44:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ShawnRJ3000@AOL.COM writes: << What if the PCs went 500 years into Mystara's future, what would they find? What if they found a world where powerful magic and burgeoning, steam-age technology had collided? If you've seen ads for the upcoming vidgame "Arcanum: of Steam- works & Magick Obscura", then you have a good idea of what I'm thinking. This would make a slick alternate Mystara, or at least a cool mini-campaign using chronomancy to time-travel! >> Actually, from what I've read about Arcanum, one of the key factors is that magic and technology don't work together. Sure they exist together, but they won't work in conjunction because technology relies on immutable laws of science, and magic refuses to adhere to those laws. I've actually been working on updating one of my old home-made worlds to be very Arcanum-esque, since I love the idea of a fantasy work experiencing an industrial revolution. ;) - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:25:23 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-27 4:24:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eyal_fleminger@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I agree - only major cities could even consider having such protection. > However, cities with substantial numbers of wizards would face opposition to > such a ward, since it would prevent any city resident from teleporting (or > casting any other spell, if an anti-magic shell is used) in or out. More > likely, important locations have several spells cast on them > (anti-teleportation and anti scrying); such locations would be, e.g., > important government buildings as well as wizards' towers (the wizard could > always leave a small non-shielded are for his own use) As I understand it, the ward was specifically directed against teleportation, not other forms of magic -- otherwise it certainly could not be in place in Glantri City. In my own campaign I introduced an extremely bulky magic item that could be used to teleport through those wards -- but the item used is so bulky that adventurers cannot carry it around, and in any case there must be a similar item within the city that you wish to teleport to. Most large cities that have these wards have one of these items located at a convenient location in a well known and well marked building within the city (maybe two or more for really large cities such as Sundsvall or Thyatis). The local rulers would have that building extremely well guarded -- think airport security at a typical American airport. In the event of a siege or other emergency, the Wizard powering that item (think of spelljamming helms a la "Spelljammer") could simply walk away and thereby render the item powerless and useless. But under normal circumstances, people intent on doing nasty things in that city would be better off teleporting to a location outside the city and entering via the mundane gates, where they would attract far less attention than the customers of "Scotty's" would. Most of the people using these items would be rich adventurers who simply want a convenient way to get from point A to point B -- see the prices on the Trail Maps for an idea as to why only RICH adventurers would use this method of transportation. One fringe benefit of this network is that it gave me an excuse to put a mid-level wizard from Klantyre in Glantri in nearly every major city of the Known World. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:25:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri (was Re: Secular humanism and Glantri) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In a message dated 8/27/00 5:04:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM > writes: > > > Good thoughts. My main goal would be to make the players be > > REALLY sorry > > there's no clerics in Glantri. Of course one trick is to be subtle about it. Certainly an AD&D player adventuring in Glantri would see a "no clerics" rule as bad for himself right from the start, since the best known source of magical healing is cut off. And of course most Boldavians should be sure by now that there are vampires running their Principality, secretly if not openly. Your plot would work best if you can minimize these factors so that the players begin to see some merit in Glantri's anti-clerical position -- then they get wind of the subtle threats that their country is now defenseless against. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:25:25 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-27 2:41:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from > teleportation and such. The Day of Dread was not a factor at the time of "Red Arrow, Black Shield", but that problem is easily dealt with. During the Day of Dread there would be many problems, but people teleporting into a city randomly would not be among them (unless, of course, they are using an artifact for that purpose. Then again, if the item that wards against teleportation is an artifact (or, for that matter, just a permanent magic item), then it would be working properly as soon as teleportation became possible. I would imagine that this item would be kept in the "holy of holies" of the city's most important temple, from which it could not easily be stolen (as I am assuming that it is either a bulky item itself or is attached to something huge). Tampering with it, of course, may be possible if a spellcaster of sufficient level can sneak into the temple, find the item, and cast the spells needed to suppress the powers of that item long enough for his army to get in. Of course, special communication magic would be needed to coordinate things properly. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:51:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri (was Re: Secular humanism and Glantri) In-Reply-To: <43.98f8417.26dae144@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:25 8/27/00 EDT, David Knott wrote: >Of course one trick is to be subtle about it. Certainly an AD&D player >adventuring in Glantri would see a "no clerics" rule as bad for himself >right from the start, since the best known source of magical healing is >cut off. And of course most Boldavians should be sure by now that >there are vampires running their Principality, secretly if not openly. > >Your plot would work best if you can minimize these factors so that the >players begin to see some merit in Glantri's anti-clerical position -- then >they get wind of the subtle threats that their country is now defenseless >against. Since this would be a GSoM game, I was actually thinking of asking the players to be able to come up with a mini-essay (a page at most; they're all good writers) discussing the system as a component to a magic-requiring democracy. (Yes, a distortion of the truth, but one that's plausible enough.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:56:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Paul George Dooley wrote: > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities = from > teleportation and such.=20 >rest snipped< Uhmm, but how do you teleport on the day of dread? Or is it a matter of = who gets the first action on the following day? Spies waiting for = teleport, and governments waiting to reestablish their spells? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:22:36 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: Mystara Sorcerers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:34:34 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: <> Well said Deldain! If u want sorcerers, then use them and figure they were always considered like mages. If u want psionics, do the same and make them come from exotic lands (say Alphatia..). No need to have tons of canon discussions about this, especially since, as Deldain said, this class DIDN'T EXIST BEFORE!! Also, I seriously have doubts about converting some stuff into 3rd Ed. The Secret Crafts of Glantri have always been thought as something SEPARATE from classic classes, so why can't we keep them THIS WAY? After all there's only 5 levels of crafts, they need extra Xps.. I don't really see the need to make them prestige classes and complicate the thing even more.. Too many complications with 3rd Ed.. It's in cases like these that I appreciate OD&D. :p DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:31:32 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Stefan skills.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have just seen the new stats for Stefan. Now what baffles me are not the stats per se, but the skills: Skills: Climb+5, ???? Where did he learn climbing so well? Was he a circus artist or a don giovanni in his youth? Don't think so! Handle Animal +8, well, hard to believe, but I can accept it (not the Handle thing, the bonus!) Intuit Direction +7, was this really needed?? and with such a bonus?? Jump +5, The more I read it, the more it seems to me this guy was in the circus! This or he's been a thief in the past (but he's been listed as 15th level Fighter) Profession (Sailor) +4 WHAT^?? Maybe I don't remembe his past so well, but I don't think he has ever sailed in his life! Where does this come from?? Anybody could clarify on this?? DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:49:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 18:54:25 Paul George Dooley wrote: >> >> One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", >there >> >> is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded >> >> against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At >best >> >> you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through >the >> >> gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. >> >> Very interesting! I would think that, perhaps, cities with populations of >> 20,000 or greater, or perhaps those lying in strategic locations (ports, >> junctions on main trade roads, etc.) would be those cities so protected. >> > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from >teleportation and such. Which probably means that there are now several >permanent, possibly large, magic items doing the job. The subversion, >destruction or theft of such items now becomes a major espionage activity. A >quick dispel magic successfully thrown at one would also allow your spies to >use teleportation when it's not supposed to be usable. Bribing the creator >of the many new devices which will probably be asked for, so that he is >including passwords so your spies can use their teleports in the enemies >areas is also a major coup. > This really confuses me... I admit that I may be wrong since I don't have the gaz and it's been some time since I read it, but IIRC the Karameikos gaz lists the spells that wizards of the nation know, and I don't think Teleport is one of them. How would wizards of Karameikos (who are few) be able to block a spell none of them know about??? Another note on this is that as a 5th-level spell, Teleport may on be cast by wizards of level 9+. Are wizards of that level or higher really so numerous that the cities need to protect themselves against them? Seems like a lot of resources to spend on a security matter that most wizards will be able to bypass anyway... I've played Mystara campaigns for a lot of years now, but we've never played with that rule before, and although we have used Teleport to travel to cities, it has never been a problem to the extent that it would warrant such wards... (i.e., setting up such wards simply seems like an awful waste of money to me.) Just wondering. - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:56:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: I just want to take a moment... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:50:08 Deirdre M. Brooks wrote: >Beau Yarbrough wrote: >> >> Beau's heresy du jour: >> You can get the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets quite easily on eBay. >> And while we may be poor deluded fools, my playing group likes what's come >> out of the boxed sets quite well. > >I thought I mentioned I'd found the boxed sets in a local store. I'm >looking for the *Gazetteer* modules. > Good luck! I've been looking for gazetteers for about a year now, but I've been able to get them all except for the ones on Karameikos, Glantri, The Five Shires, Minrothad, and the Orcs of Thar. The Five Shires gaz is probably not to difficult to find, but it was never a big priority for me. Your best bets would be: www.eBay.com www.cyberdungeon.com www.titan-games.com Well, in my experience, anyway. I also got a decent number of gazetteers from WOTC themselves, though I had to have some in the U.S. buy them for me and then send them to me (bad customer service there, WOTC!), and I believe they destroyed all they had left at the end of may :( Anyway, good hunting! - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 15:56:21 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: I just want to take a moment... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000827013610.007bec80@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:36 AM 8/27/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Beau's heresy du jour: > You can get the Karameikos and Glantri boxed sets quite easily on eBay. >And while we may be poor deluded fools, my playing group likes what's come >out of the boxed sets quite well. Ha, ha, ha! You poor, deluded... oh, wait a sec... Actually, I only own G:KoM, and my biggest complaint about it was that it was basically Gaz3 reprinted, but missing a lot of information, and instead replacing it with full character writeups on several NPCs, and all the new spells (I just get sick of every AD&D product having 20+ pages of new spells...). I wanted to see more thought put into updating it for the time period in question (1013 AC), and perhaps a bit more work put into altering the Crafts for AD&D (since many of them, Dream Magic in particular, were essentially created to duplicate spells available in AD&D but not in OD&D). For someone who's never seen Gaz3, I'd imagine it is a pretty useful resource, and it does cover the basics of what the Gaz wrote very adequately (being almost verbatim what Bruce originally wrote). I've heard that K:KoA is pretty good, though. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:16:56 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000828003132.0096a950@dsc.unibo.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:31 AM 8/28/00 +0200, you wrote: > >Skills: >Climb+5, > >???? Where did he learn climbing so well? Was he a circus artist or a don >giovanni in his youth? Don't think so! It's a class skill for Fighters, so presumably that's where the designer decided to grab it from. >Handle Animal +8, > >well, hard to believe, but I can accept it (not the Handle thing, the bonus!) He was an officer in the Thyatian cavalry, so I'd presume that's where he got his ability. It does seem somewhat high, though... >Intuit Direction +7, > >was this really needed?? and with such a bonus?? I don't mind the skill so much, but the bonus, yeah. I can see where the skill would come in handy both on the sea (see below), and as an officer. Wouldn't do to get lost while trying to lead troops around the country, neh? >Jump +5, > >The more I read it, the more it seems to me this guy was in the circus! >This or he's been a thief in the past (but he's been listed as 15th level >Fighter) Again, a class skill. But it does seem as if the designer just bought a bunch of class skills and didn't put a heck of a lot of thought into other possible skills... >Profession (Sailor) +4 > >WHAT^?? Maybe I don't remembe his past so well, but I don't think he has >ever sailed in his life! Where does this come from?? >From Gaz1, under skills (p.42): "... Seaman (I)..." So, yes, Stefan is an experienced (to some extent, anyway) Seaman. I still think some more thought could have gone into things- some translations of his Law and Justice skill (perhaps Profession: Lawyer, as I've postulated elsewhere), and Military Tactics (Profession: Strategist? or the like?) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:09:01 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: I just want to take a moment... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, The Stalker wrote: > Good luck! I've been looking for gazetteers for about a year now, but > I've been able to get them all except for the ones on Karameikos, > Glantri, The Five Shires, Minrothad, and the Orcs of Thar. The Five > Shires gaz is probably not to difficult to find, but it was never a big > priority for me. eBay is always the best place, but the prices are obnoxious. I remember paying almost $50 for Glantri to complete my set. Of course, eBay has it's deals too. It all depends on what you are buying, or if you are lucky! Good luck Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:35:06 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Glenn Butcher Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) In-Reply-To: <000d01c01071$c2a647c0$7dda61d4@skytte>; from scythe@WANADOO.DK on Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 11:56:38PM +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sun, Aug 27, 2000 at 11:56:38PM +0200, Jacob Skytte wrote: > Paul George Dooley wrote: > > > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from > > teleportation and such. > >rest snipped< > > Uhmm, but how do you teleport on the day of dread? Or is it a matter of who > gets the first action on the following day? Spies waiting for teleport, > and governments waiting to reestablish their spells? In last session of my campaign (yesterday) the party encountered _major_ problems with the day of dread and teleportation. Long story: The party is currently trying to free Sind from the grip of the Master, having spent several years building up enough money to hire mercenaries. Luckily the mercenaries they asked for happened to be commanded by a PC from another campaign (coincidence) who had a magical extra-dimensional mirror (yes, Skarda's). They have taken several outlying cities due to their great mobility. On the day of dread, the party decided to return to their base of operations, Serraine, and ground their gnomish flying ship. When they returned the next day, they found considerable confusion - both Sindhi generals were dead, and three of the mercenary mages were also dead. It seems someone had slipped some assassins in the day before, and they struck on the day when the mages were completely helpless! One mage survived the assasins blades, but died due to the poison later in the day. The party (all PCs are spellcasters) realised just how close they came to their own destruction on that day as well... I loved it, it put a realisation that the battle for Sind wasn't going to be quite as easy as it had been. That said, I'm having a bit of trouble coming up with adventure ideas. Large parts of the campaign will be mass battles, which are a bit boring or those not directly involved. Aside from missons to destroy walls and leaders, I don't have any ideas (DM burnout to some extent). Any suggestions? -- knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au | If you were plowing a field, what you glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024 http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel | processing ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:11:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from > > teleportation and such. > > The Day of Dread was not a factor at the time of "Red Arrow, Black Shield", > but that problem is easily dealt with. During the Day of Dread there would > be many problems, but people teleporting into a city randomly would not be > among them (unless, of course, they are using an artifact for that purpose. > Then again, if the item that wards against teleportation is an artifact (or, > for > that matter, just a permanent magic item), then it would be working properly > as soon as teleportation became possible. I would imagine that this item > would be kept in the "holy of holies" of the city's most important temple, > from which it could not easily be stolen (as I am assuming that it is either > a bulky item itself or is attached to something huge). Tampering with it, > of course, may be possible if a spellcaster of sufficient level can sneak > into the temple, find the item, and cast the spells needed to suppress the > powers of that item long enough for his army to get in. Of course, special > communication magic would be needed to coordinate things properly. > Funnily enough I did mention such things in the part of the message you chose not to reply to. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:21:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from > teleportation and such. >rest snipped< Uhmm, but how do you teleport on the day of dread? Or is it a matter of who gets the first action on the following day? Spies waiting for teleport, and governments waiting to reestablish their spells? Well since it's just a spell which hasn't been backed up with the newfangled "survive the day of dread" spell, it won't come back on following the week with no magic back in 1009. So unless it's actually an item causing the effect the city is no longer protected since the spell failed a week ago and nobody has raised another. Compared to the almost total shielding which may have been around previously, in some places 2000 years of adding more magics to cover eventualities, the coverage will be spotty at best. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:25:17 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-27 7:03:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > This really confuses me... I admit that I may be wrong since I don't have the > gaz and it's been some time since I read it, but IIRC the Karameikos gaz > lists the spells that wizards of the nation know, and I don't think Teleport > is one of them. How would wizards of Karameikos (who are few) be able to > block a spell none of them know about??? Maybe the ambassador from Glantri arranged it? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:38:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Even if a city is warded against teleportation that only gives impetus to the creation of spells specifically to evade the warding. assuming you cant get some guys with high level dispel magic scrolls to knock it down for mission duration. The people who probably have such defences, Thyatis, Alphatia,and Glantri, are also those most able to counter the ability in others. You farm some of your espionage off to foreign adventurers by sending them after the "evil necromancer" in another country, one who also happens to work on the newest defences and counters for your opponents. Whilst the adventurers blunder around looking for treasure your operatives rifle through the working notes. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:59:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In last session of my campaign (yesterday) the party encountered _major_ > problems with the day of dread and teleportation. > A former party of mine from Karameikos who were bandit hunting on the Savage coast were rudely surprised when their magic failed in the late afternoon of the 27th.Especially the mage who'd been keeping careful track of the calendar but had never adjusted for timezone. They got whupped and had all there stuff taken from them by the bandits who now had an immense superiority in numbers and firepower, and being locals were well aware that the magic was going to stop working. Another group lost track of the time in a major underground expedition and were horrified as their continual light spells all went out and their teleport magics didn't work. The elf and the dwarf in the group tried to keep them together until they could light some torches that were along for emergencies, but were the first picked off with missiles by the denizens of below, along with torchbearers. Ambushing the party with just buckets of water, so they were in the pitch dark trying to find something dry to ignite to see by, soon had the party surrendering. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 05:03:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beau Yarbrough" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 8:56 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura > At 15:26 8/27/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: > > What if the PCs went 500 years into Mystara's future, what > >would they find? What if they found a world where powerful > >magic and burgeoning, steam-age technology had collided? If > >you've seen ads for the upcoming vidgame "Arcanum: of Steam- > >works & Magick Obscura", then you have a good idea of what > >I'm thinking. This would make a slick alternate Mystara, or at > >least a cool mini-campaign using chronomancy to time-travel! > > Hmm. That would be cool. It'd require the Nucleus of the Spheres to get > repaired for real, though ... > Castle Falkenstein would be good reading for background into a way to mix things. Mind you it would mean that the theory in PC1 about fairies being former Immortals is grounded in fact, if you take too much of it. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:25:21 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-27 11:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > Even if a city is warded against teleportation that only gives impetus > to the creation of spells specifically to evade the warding. assuming you > cant get some guys with high level dispel magic scrolls to knock it down for > mission duration. The people who probably have such defences, Thyatis, > Alphatia,and Glantri, are also those most able to counter the ability in > others. Of course, such defenses are adequate to keep high Expert level (8th to 14th level) adventurers from trying anything funny, so outside of a war in which magically powerful empires are opposed, those defenses should stand -- and breaching them would definitely qualify as an act of war, and so it is unlikely to be done by anyone traceable in time of peace. The X10 module was indeed set in a wartime scenario (the Great War between Darokin and the Master), but as originally presented Alphatia was not involved and Hule and its likely allies (Ylaruam and Ethengar) are not very magically sophisticated. The adventurers in this module are working for the government of Darokin in a diplomatic capacity and thus have no incentive at all to breach the anti-teleport defenses of any potentially friendly nation. As for the other side, it is enough of a challenge for them to keep their anti-teleport defenses up, let alone try to breach those of their foes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:08:03 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Mystara Sorcerers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/27/00 6:09:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 mdalmonte@PROVINCIA.RA.IT writes: > Well said Deldain! If u want sorcerers, then use them and figure they were > always considered like mages. If u want psionics, do the same=20 =20 All DMs have final say over what goes into their campaign, and all=20 members of the MML have final say over which posts they ignore, which=20 they delete and which they save. These things we should all know al- ready, but what we may need to remember is in any open forum, one=20 is likely to hear both info one likes AND info one dislikes. [However, I=20 can agree that discussion of any given topic should not be redundant=20 or cyclical if possible.]=20 > Also, I seriously have doubts about converting some stuff into 3rd Ed.=20 > Too many complications with 3rd Ed.. It's in cases like these that I > appreciate OD&D. :p Again, there seem to be quite a few Mystaraphiles interested in=20 conversion to 3E (myself included). We deserve to exchange ideas=20 and collaborate as much as those who favor classic D&D. Keep in=20 mind that providing a fair amount of Mystara info in 3E format on=20 various websites will serve to expose some gamers to Mystara for=20 the first time. Growing the "fan base" is an important part of keeping=20 Mystara alive as a setting for D&D. With the re-release (in electronic=20 format) of old Mystara products, there may be an infusion of gamers=20 interested in Mystara. Many of those gamers will be using 3E rules.=20 Some may have only played 3E D&D. Those of us long-standing fans=20 can encourage all those newly exposed to Mystara to make it their=20 preferred gameworld by making it as easy, familiar, and detailed as=20 possible. In essence, Mystaraphiles have created a "Living Mystara" and if WotC NEVER decides to release any new products, it will not=20 matter because we will have done what it took to sustain interest in=20 Mystara for decades more. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:06:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Clerical magic thoughts Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greetings, I wanted to post an idea for handling clerical magic in my campaign for comment and feedback. Your thoughts would be most appreciated. Basically, I want to have important differences in learning, preparing, and casting spells between types of magic in my campaign. As I have it, wizardly magic (mostly human) will follow 3e rules, which aren't too different from OD&D magic-in-general rules, and elven magic will follow sorcerous magic rules from 3e. Here's what I'm thinking for clerical magic. I like the way OD&D and the gazeteers restrict clerical spell lists, such that "specialty clerics" have replacement spells for standard ones, but have the same limited number. Examples include Northern Reaches clerics in that GAZ, and Dervishes (Desert Druids) from GAZ2. I don't like the full list of clerical spells in AD&D and 3e and want to keep it relatively small and simple. I also don't want a list of domain spells with an extra spell as per specialized wizard. In fact, I think of the clerical spell list as a domain list with many more spells per level, but not the full range as in AD&D/3e. Now, in return for these restrictions, I'm thinking of giving clerics much more freedom when casting, in fact more than sorcerors. My view is that while wizards are highly restricted because of their science-like approach, and even sorcerous are bound by certain limits because of the nature of arcane magic, clerics should not need to prepare spells at all, nor even deal with specific slots for specific spell levels since their magic (in my view and campaign, I reiterare) is based on supplication, prayer, and need, not preparation. So I'm thinking of using spell points for them, so they not only can cast on the fly, but have a total of points based on the 3e list but can essentially get the number of spell levels per day to spend freely on spells of any level they are able to cast at their level. That's the gist of it. I have some specific questions I'd appreciate advice on, though. First, what fraction of a spell level would you suggest for an orison (clerical cantrip)? 1/2? 1/4? Secondly, I'd like to have a system of gradual spell learning, rather than opening up every spell of a given level all at once. Actually, I'm thinking of saying that clerics "received" and "use" "gifts" rather than "learn" and "cast" "spells" for flavor purposes. So I'm looking for a system by which clerics can receive these gifts. It would be lots of fun for roleplaying if gifts are granted at interesting times such as in time of great need, after accomplishing a great quest or mission for the Immortal or church, or in response to petition and great sacrifice. I think it's much more fun for the party cleric to gain, say, Spiritual Weapon in the middle of a battle with enemies of the religion when he/she is at a distance and can't seem to get into melee in time--suddenly the PC feels a great charge of energy and, as if possessed, starts chanting and making mystic gestures and WHAM, the gift (spell) goes into effect spontaneously. That becomes an event the character can remember and consider important, and signals, in game terms, the addition of the gift to his/her repertoire for future (voluntary) use. Anyway, the question would be how many gifts they should have to start with upon attaining a class level that grants access to gifts (spells) of that level, and at what rate per level, roughly, more should be awarded. I want PC clerics to feel "blessed" to receive the gifts, but not for them to wait too long to have enough to feel useful. I guess a third question is whether all clerics of a particular religion should eventually attain the same list, as suggested in OD&D stuff. I say religion, not Immortal, because the same Immortal may grant different spells to followers of a different race, region, etc. Perhaps there should be a master list of spells for that religion, and each individual cleric gets a subset of the same number of gifts but different ones (though there would always be overlap)? Ok, hell, why not a 4th question. Should every cleric need to pick a single patron Immortal or can they stay with just a religion. For instance, should all clerics of the Church of Traladara be clerics of Halav, Petra, or Zirchev or should/can they worship the "trinity" without extra special attention to one? Alright. Enough from me. What do YOU think? Thanks, Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:13:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Even if a city is warded against teleportation that only gives impetus > > to the creation of spells specifically to evade the warding. assuming you > > cant get some guys with high level dispel magic scrolls to knock it down > for > > mission duration. The people who probably have such defences, Thyatis, > > Alphatia,and Glantri, are also those most able to counter the ability in > > others. > > Of course, such defenses are adequate to keep high Expert level (8th to > 14th level) adventurers from trying anything funny, so outside of a war in > which magically powerful empires are opposed, those defenses should > stand -- and breaching them would definitely qualify as an act of war, > and so it is unlikely to be done by anyone traceable in time of peace. > Why does the phrase"Plausable Deniability" spring to mind. As long as the people doing it don't get caught there's no proof it even happened. If they do then the cut outs between active operatives and anyone who actually is in charge all disappear so there is no connection. Worst case will probably be if you have to deal with a "rogue" element of your own intelligence service to ensure your opponent is happy. The actuall going to war over such things is a remote possibility at best, the vested interest in those currently in power is to keep the status quo. Having run, and played in, many higher level games than the upper limit mentioned I've found such defences to be at most a hinderance to the party, usually they are a boon. > The X10 module was indeed set in a wartime scenario (the Great War > between Darokin and the Master), but as originally presented Alphatia > was not involved and Hule and its likely allies (Ylaruam and Ethengar) > are not very magically sophisticated. The adventurers in this module > are working for the government of Darokin in a diplomatic capacity and > thus have no incentive at all to breach the anti-teleport defenses of any > potentially friendly nation. As for the other side, it is enough of a > challenge for them to keep their anti-teleport defenses up, let alone > try to breach those of their foes. > I'm well aware of all that having a copy myself, but if my players come up with a clever resourceful way to get around any defences that I, or to a lesser extent the scenario, have placed I'll allow them to work that time. If there's some evidence that they got around the defences, then in future that hole will be plugged. If however all they did was copy documents and left no trace, then they'll be able to do the same trick again and again. A similar defence elsewhere unless placed by the same people will not be susceptible to the same manoeuvre though. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:28:02 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/27/00 7:04:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET= =20 writes: > For someone who's never seen Gaz3, I'd imagine it is a pretty useful > resource, and it does cover the basics of what the Gaz wrote very > adequately (being almost verbatim what Bruce originally wrote). > =20 > I've heard that K:KoA is pretty good, though. > =20 Naaaay! I have both K:KoA & Gaz 1 and although K:KoA is a=20 graphically gorgeous product (& I love the character artwork=E2=80=94very realistic style), Gaz 1 is FAR superior in gaming material. More of=20 everything. Remember, it introduced skills for Od&d (which is moot=20 if one uses AD&D), but the adventure "seeds" in Gaz 1 were my=20 favorite (sort of the cherry on top). Plus, I didn't like the thought of=20 gaming in the more developed (Ex: rebuilt Krakatos) *Kingdom* of=20 Karameikos. Give me the untamed wilderness of the Duchy any day!=20 How is G:KoM? How much (& what exactly) is missing; is it worth=20 getting both or would only Gaz 3 be worth it? =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:51:40 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Clerical magic thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > That's the gist of it. I have some specific questions I'd > appreciate advice on, though. First, what fraction of a spell level > would you suggest for an orison (clerical > cantrip)? 1/2? 1/4? I'd say 1/4 with a bonus number of freebies equal to level > I guess a third question is whether all clerics of a particular > religion should eventually attain the same list, as suggested in OD&D > stuff. I say religion, not Immortal, because the same Immortal may > grant different spells to followers of a different race, region, > etc. Perhaps there should be a master list of spells for that > religion, and each individual cleric gets a subset of the same number > of gifts but different ones (though there would always be overlap)? IMNSHO there shouldn't be any limit except perhaps certain spells may be forbidden due to the particular teachings recieved. There may however be a known list of spells usually favoured by followers of particular religeons. E.g. Light and Fire and Energy for Ixion > Ok, hell, why not a 4th question. Should every cleric need to pick > a single patron Immortal or can they stay with just a religion. For > instance, should all clerics of the Church of Traladara be clerics of > Halav, Petra, or Zirchev or should/can they worship the "trinity" > without extra special attention to one? IMC I have both Church clerics and Church clerics with a specific patron, the latter are more usually adventurers than the former, plus druids and others with no ties to any Immortal, church or religeon just plain holy men with clerical powers. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:50:03 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) In-Reply-To: <65.90734e6.26db5262@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable At 01:28 8/28/00 EDT, SR Johnson wrote: >> I've heard that K:KoA is pretty good, though. >> =20 > Naaaay! I have both K:KoA & Gaz 1 and although K:KoA is a=20 >graphically gorgeous product (& I love the character artwork=E2=80=94very >realistic style), Gaz 1 is FAR superior in gaming material. More of=20 >everything. Remember, it introduced skills for Od&d (which is moot=20 >if one uses AD&D), but the adventure "seeds" in Gaz 1 were my=20 >favorite (sort of the cherry on top). Plus, I didn't like the thought of= =20 >gaming in the more developed (Ex: rebuilt Krakatos) *Kingdom* of=20 >Karameikos. Give me the untamed wilderness of the Duchy any day!=20 Oh, PBBBBBBBLT. KKoA is pretty great and is the best setting I've ever come across in 20+ years of *D&D. My group about wet itself a few weeks ago in a ruin I created that plays off the recent history of the kingdom. And the rebuilt Krakatos is going to be the staging grounds for the majority of the campaign. If you want wild and wooly, you can still get it. And none of that OD&D stuff cluttering the place up! I suspect they're both great products. Enough with the championing one version of Mystara over another: It's gotten very old, y'all. They're BOTH out of print, and if someone can track down one version, let's not tell them they need to get back in archeology mode and KEEP digging "'cause the REALLY good one is the one that's only on sale at eBay once every blue= moon." At least, let's hold off on this sort of talk until both versions are available in PDF versions through WotC. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 03:19:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 1:59:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM=20 writes: > KKoA is pretty great and is the best setting I've ever > come across in 20+ years of *D&D. My group about wet itself a few weeks a= go Very true, in large part because the vast majority (I'd guess 98%)=20 of the material was "reprinted" from the original. Even the maps and=20 coats of arms were reproduced, albeit in lush color. K:KoA did excel=20 above Gaz 1 in its sidebars, which are highly informative about a great=20 many things. Beau is right, if you can get your hands on K:KoA you=20 will not be disappointed. I just favor the older one becase it's darker=20 tone suits my taste better. But I just realized that now I want both Gaz 3=20 and G:KoM. Before, I tried to convince myself that one might be better=20 than the other but it's no good now that I've considered the case with=20 Gaz1 & K:KoA. Beau, it's all your fault! I won't be able to get a good=20 night's rest until I own both (it's not nice to geas someone, you know)!=20 :-> =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 00:46:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Hin: The Origin of the Species MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thousands of years ago, the hin arrived, by ship, on the shores of what would eventually be Seashire in the Five Shires, having arrived from the southern hemisphere of Mystara. ... And that's about all that I know about where they came from. Is there any other canonical reference to the origins of the hin? Any good ideas based on canonical information? I'm trying to roughly sketch out the long-term plans for my Five Shires campaign, and I'm thinking that in addition to providing adventures that are much more retro (read: adventures in taverns, patrons, the odd dungeon crawl) than my main, Karameikos, campaign, I might also want to use the hin adventures as a way to let my players learn more about Mystara, wheres the Karameikos campaign will basically be about the recent history of a single country. Plus, the idea of a hin setting out on a ship to explore the world is kind of a fun image ... (Ack. Three ongoing complimentary Mystara campaigns. I think I'm a sick boy.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:02:05 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Clerical magic thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Should every cleric need to pick > a single patron Immortal or can they stay with just a religion. For > instance, should all clerics of the Church of Traladara be clerics of > Halav, Petra, or Zirchev or should/can they worship the "trinity" > without extra special attention to one? IMO (and IMC) it depends on the specific Church/Pantheon: the Traladarn Church allows both, but pantheists are much more common; OTOH, in the Northern Reaches pantheist are rare at best, and specialty priests are the standard clergymen. Often, lawful-aligned patheons are more interested in sponsoring pantheist clerics, while more independent immortals may prefer specialty priests. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:55:16 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Hin: The Origin of the Species MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Thousands of years ago, the hin arrived, by ship, on the = shores of what > would eventually be Seashire in the Five Shires, having arrived from = the > southern hemisphere of Mystara. ... And that's about all that I know = about > where they came from. > Is there any other canonical reference to the origins of the = hin? > Any good ideas based on canonical information? In the Hollow World set, it states that "In Earliest Times. Before the = dawn of recorded history (about 7,000 years ago, or BC 6,000) all the = sentient races were in their infancy: they were very primitive, very = simple peoples." "Halflings lived in the rolling hills and forests of = the southern continent, some distance from the elves, whom, they = respected greatly." BC 3,000: The Great Rain of Fire. The Migration Map = seems to imply that the elves driven north (since their lands have = become the south pole) force the halflings out of their lands, located = in what is nearly the exact center of Davania; the southern continent. = They travel NW along the southern coast of the Adakkian Sound, cross the = Serpent Strait, and arrive at Thanegia Island (the southern-most part of = the Serpent Peninsula; SW of the Sea of Dread) in BC 1,500. From there = they cross the Sea of Dread, arriving at what will become the Five = Shires in BC 1,300. This is apparently summarized in the following = entry: "BC 1,300: The halflings from the southern continent, = long-abandoned by their friends the elves, and increasingly endangered = by the ever-growing human population, make a mass naval migration to the = northern continent. They become friends with a declining, pacifistic = clan of elves called the Gentle Folk." In "BC 1,000-BC 610: Orcs, part = of the migration from the Broken Lands, invade the Five Shires region = and enslave the halflings. The Gentle Folk elves of the Five Shires = region disappear or are destroyed by the orcs. Over a period of four = hundred years, the halflings are conquered and reconquered by orcs, = dwarves, and bandits of different races; eventually they reclaim their = land and establish a strong kingdom." I suspect you know the recent = history better than I do. As for the halfling stop at Thanegia Island, it states in the Champions = of Mystara boxed set (p. 35) that "Around 1500 BC a group of halflings = paused in their northward migration at Thanegia Island. Dismayed by the = unrest in the land, they quickly moved on." This unrest was caused by = geological cataclysms that rocked the Sea of Dread region with = earthquakes that destroyed the cities of the Serpent Peninsula, and = collapsed the civilization. Now, of course, Thanegia Island is home to = the Most Serene Divinarchy of Yavdlom. I think that there's plenty of adventure potential for a campaign based = on the Hin tracing their origins. It would definitely be a plus to own = the Champions of Mystara boxed set, since adventure in Yavdlom seems = pretty obvious. You could also have the Hin start out by journeying = across land (or stranding them) and forcing them to travel through the = Sind Desert where they could meet other cultures from the CoM set. As = for the Hin's original home in Davania, there are no hard canon facts, = but it seems likely that the Milenians might have had cities there (? I = don't have the Milenian HW Gaz). Their civilization collapsed around BC = 100-50, leaving tribal humans in the area. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 05:49:54 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Sind Ideas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/27/00 10:44:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 knight@UCC.GU.UWA.EDU.AU writes: > That said, I'm having a bit of trouble coming up with adventure ideas. > Large parts of the campaign will be mass battles, which are a bit boring > or those not directly involved. Aside from missons to destroy walls and > leaders, I don't have any ideas (DM burnout to some extent). > Any suggestions? What about making the battles more of a backdrop to your scena- rios (except to PCs actually commanding the forces involved) and then=20 sending PCs on more commando-type missions. Since I assume these=20 are moderately-high level characters, being in command of others is in- evitable, but by alternating with action-style sequences, things won't get=20 redundant. Also, what about tailor making various missions to suit only=20 certain PCs. If you run the separate missions simultaneously, everyone=20 is occupied, but in this style of gaming, it can be a strain to keep several= =20 intertwined storylines moving along together in synchronous gametime.=20 So alternately, you could focus first on one mission during one game=20 session and then on another during the next session. Some players'=20 main characters may be off somewhere else during some sessions. =20 Let these players role-play important henchmen for that session. As for mission ideas, what if Hule got the upper hand after slaying=20 those magi. Perhaps they stole (or will, now that no magi can defend)=20 another powerful magic item. They then begin using it against the PC's=20 forces (or at least have deprived them of it). A mission to sneak behind enemy lines and steal it back suits a thief and/or mage nicely. Also, they=20 may now need more troops to win=E2=80=94where can they get them? From the=20 Urduk nomads (I can't recall if they are still nomads but some could be)! They would be reluctant at first, having been poorly treated by the Sindhi,=20 but if reminded that they would become the heros of Sind and it would be=20 a way to forever thumb their noses at the Sindhi (IF they win), they would=20 agree. But there is a condition=E2=80=94that the PCs retrieve an ancestral=20= ring=20 (or some such) from a terrible temple in the Burning Waste made of=20 blackest basalt. The temple is said to be home to many fearsome=20 demons (actually elementals=E2=80=94summoned by the long dead arch-magi=20 who built the place), but the ring (or whatever) can control them. The=20 Urduk could agree to use this on behalf of PCs. Or the Urduk could even refuse but still tell the PCs of a MORE powerful artifact to be found in thi= s=20 temple. One other source of inspiration might be war movies since the=20 campaign centers on one. =20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:38:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Secular humanism and Glantri In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000826200955.007baa90@10.1.1.1>; from lby3@LBY3.COM on Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 08:09:55PM -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sat, Aug 26, 2000 at 08:09:55PM -0700, Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), it occurs to me that > Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a campaign-cum-morality play > about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. In my Glantrian campaigns I use the lack of following immortals as a major part of the setting. Most of the characters hate the idea of clerics - they see them as dangerous, following the ways of powerful beings who don't care about the lives of your typical glantrian. Most of the glantrian philosophy that the characters have revolves around self sufficiency, the idea that people can do things for themselves without asking the permission of beings that are willing to sacrifice so many mortals for their petty wars. With most of the characters actively disliking the immortals/clerics it was a fun campaign where one character ended up as a paladin of the Great One, another attained immortality and a third was murdered by clerics of Alphaks (after successfully removing the distinction between arcaner and mundaner in most Glantrian Laws). In my current campaign one of the PC's is a Heldannic Knight on the run from the Inquistion, which adds to the fun. The morality issue comes up quite a lot in our games, and Glantri is the perfect place for it. gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:26:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: Re: Church of Saimpt Joan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ---- you wrote: > The Church of Saimpt Joan>> > First of all, this is very interesting stuff, but let me make two comments. > First one is linguistic: it's saint, not saimpt (you've been fooled by > Bruce Heard's self-willed mis-spelling of the noun). :) Here I was thinking that Saimpt was the standard Mystara word.. I'm well aware that the correct spelling in Saint, I had just assumed that Saimpt was used by the MML etc. the same way that Tana'ri gets used instead of devil. :) > Second point: > Now, may I ask u why was a near immortal permitted to intervene in mundane > facts? Wasn't Joan reprimanded for this misbehaviour? My point is: how was > she able to tap into the powers of an artifact if she was still a mortal? > And if she wasn't, why hasn't she been punished for violating the Immortal > law so openly (and Razud allowing her to do it is just incredible!) > Also, why did she need to save his brother? Only to have him appear a > century after to prophesize another plague? Couldn't she herself appear and > do it? > > IMHO it would be better if u worded the event leaving St Joan out and > saying that the artifact sword Edward possessed reacted in self defense > against the fiery assault and protected his wielder and itself teleporting > somewhere else. Then the Alphatians thought the Flaems wanted to kill em > all and responded with other spells, which led to a final explosion to > which only Halzunthram escaped. > Then Edward returned after a few years (the teleport had make him go far > astray) and led the Fen people out of the war, and prophesized the coming > of the plague at the end of his days, saying he was receiving visions from > his sister.. The remaining stuff fits nicely. Fair enough... The events I described were a little fuzzy for me as well, and I'm not sure yet just what status I want Joan to have at that point in the story.. I figure she will not achieve full immortal status until around the time of the coming plague. I like your take on what could have happened on the hill during the summit between Edward, Halzunthram, and the Flaems. Thanks. > signs. Though the Joanites are religious/clerical, the church has its roots > among the Fen Witches,>> > Who are these Fen witches?? The ones described in an old article on the MML ? By Fen witches I am refering only to wizards from the towns along the Fen river, not a special class of any sort. > And also, who's this Tybboch u keep mentioning in the end? An Immortal from > your campaign, right? Who's his closest similar in standard Mystaran > pantheons? Tybboch is an immortal from the online Unearthed Arcania site. I mentioned him in my previous article about the plague IMC. He is a god of disease and pestilence, and is behind the new plague. Tybboch "infects" the Nucleus of the Spheres with his pestilential immortal body. If you want to read the first post I put up about the plague IMC, check out dnd.starflung.com, it is posted there somewhere. Erik Waddell ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:09:02 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While this is true, it also makes things a lot easier for the counterintelligence specialist. Setting up honey-traps becomes a matter of a potion or spell, finding where a spy might be becomes a matter of making special detection spells, passing on disinformation or misinformation becomes easy. In short, there are plenty of ways to mess with a magical spy. It almost makes finding nonmagical spies harder... George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 8:37 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Spy networks > > No disputing that. It's not the presence of spies, but the > > sophistication. That is, medieval and earlier societies weren't > > particularly known for their innovative intelligence gathering. > > > However magic totally alters the whole set-up of amassing and > distributing intelligence. Magical scrying, covert entry, and extraction of > assets will totally alter both espionage and counter-espionage settings to a > very noticeable degree. E.g. "How current is this information?", "I just > teleported back from the area.". > > Hamlet I, v, 166. > Words to live by? > > Paul > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:15:04 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: 3E Hin Masters (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In my game, not only must you be invited to become a Master, but you must also be at the level of Sheriff. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SR Johnson" To: Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] 3E Hin Masters (was Early thoughts on converting "The Five Shires") In a message dated 8/26/00 5:09:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes: > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, David Knott wrote: > > > Why make the Halfling Master a new class? Because they have very > > distinctive abilities that set them apart from the Cleric and Druid > > classes, which are the standard classes they most resemble. With 35 > > spellcasting levels and seven levels of spells, they would need a full > > twenty levels in 3E to cover all of their potential abilities. > > That's not the point. You can't make a 1 to 1 translation of the Halfling > master - A) Because it was overpowered in oD&D anyway, and B) > Because there is no need to create a new "class" for only halflings (which > the Master was in the first place). "New" class—like you said, that's what it was in the first place. NOW people are simply trying to translate it into 3E. And if new classes were such a dirty concept would WotC have created the Sorcerer or be including rules for creating new classes (exactly what we're discussing)? > It's easy enough to strip down the spell levels, get rid of extemporaneous > spells, and consolidate powers into 10 levels. The hard part is > determining how much chaff to cut out. Balance balance balance. Read the > new Dragon. Read the Mystic (damn confusing names) Prestige class. That's > pretty powerful, and only has 10 levels. I started out thinking that a Hin Master class would be cool, but some posts convinced me that making the Hin Master a prestige class would be the best route, but now I am back to favoring an actual Master class. Here's my thinking: if a character must be *invited* to join the Masters, is allowing a character to then multi-class in the Master class really much different from a prestige class (but with more levels available)? Now, if prestige class levels require as little XP as normal classes, then I do see a big problem. Otherwise, it just seems like we've overlooked a useful tool in this "invitation" requirement. If various conditions in the game world forbid players from multi-classing in certain classes, what's the big deal? If players whine, you just get to remind them, "when you GM you can do things like that!". Now, anyone who wants a full class can feel OK about it—it won't cause the empires of Mystara to topple! I still want to see the Hin master prestige classes you guys come up with though, they sound very cool too! —Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:22:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It would be foolhardy for espionage professionals to engage in such amateurish activities. Spies in the real world do not go around blowing up FBI offices! They find clever ways to work around it. After all, destroying a magical protection that counts as a major national resource would incur a disproportionate response. Would YOU want to be holding the bomb-making materials? This would ensure that all espionage activities you are engaged in would be blown and it could start a shooting war, something espionage is designed to prevent! George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) > > >> One note of interest: In the module X10 "Red Arrow, Black Shield", > there > > >> is a statement that most major cities of the Known World are warded > > >> against teleportation -- you cannot teleport into or out of them. At > best > > >> you could teleport to a location near the city and then enter through > the > > >> gates (or via non-teleportation magic) in most cases. > > > > Very interesting! I would think that, perhaps, cities with populations of > > 20,000 or greater, or perhaps those lying in strategic locations (ports, > > junctions on main trade roads, etc.) would be those cities so protected. > > > The day of dread would ruin most spells cast to defend cities from > teleportation and such. Which probably means that there are now several > permanent, possibly large, magic items doing the job. The subversion, > destruction or theft of such items now becomes a major espionage activity. A > quick dispel magic successfully thrown at one would also allow your spies to > use teleportation when it's not supposed to be usable. Bribing the creator > of the many new devices which will probably be asked for, so that he is > including passwords so your spies can use their teleports in the enemies > areas is also a major coup. > > > Hamlet I, v, 166. > Words to live by? > > Paul > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:24:30 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Major cities and major military installations. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eyal Fleminger" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Teleportation and Espionage > I agree - only major cities could even consider having such protection. > However, cities with substantial numbers of wizards would face opposition to > such a ward, since it would prevent any city resident from teleporting (or > casting any other spell, if an anti-magic shell is used) in or out. More > likely, important locations have several spells cast on them > (anti-teleportation and anti scrying); such locations would be, e.g., > important government buildings as well as wizards' towers (the wizard could > always leave a small non-shielded are for his own use) > --Eyal > > > > > I agree, but I think the key word here is "major". I would say the > >majority of even large cities in Mystara should not be considered "major" > >(i.e. important/powerful) for this purpose. Such an immense warding > >that targets ONLY teleportation without negating other magics (perhaps > >an anti-magic shell would be preferable), would be a great undertaking > >for even a whole guild of accomplished wizards. Thus, only truly power- > >ful cities like Thyatis, Darokin, Glantri City, and most Alphatian capitals > >would have the power and resources (money AND available high-level > >wizards) necessary to ward an ENTIRE city. Other, more "backwater," > >cities like Specularum or even Corunglain, would not. > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:25:49 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: III Subject: Any New Radiance Spells? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone designed any new Radiance spells? The Radiance using wizards in Glantri are a powerful (and obsessed) crew. You know they've come up with more spells than the short list the Gaz provides. Any ideas? -Andy Morrow _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:29:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Clerical magic thoughts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Should every cleric need to pick > a single patron Immortal or can they stay with just a religion. For > instance, should all clerics of the Church of Traladara be clerics of > Halav, Petra, or Zirchev or should/can they worship the "trinity" > without extra special attention to one? > > Alright. Enough from me. What do YOU think? > Thanks, > > Magus Coeruleus In my campaign, when you have a church that follows a pantheon, like the Church of Traladara, all clerics follow the pantheon as a general concept, but choose a Patron Immortal to dedicate to. That way, the cleric is able to gain the Special Clerical Powers mentioned in WotI, and gives the cleric a guide-line on the way he/she is supposed to act. Also, the Patron Immortals influence should over-ride general pantheon concepts. For instance, Valerias clerics (part of the Church of Karameikos) would not be bound to the celebacy until marriage rules that are mentioned in the Church of Karameikos strictures. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:12:29 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Any New Radiance Spells? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted some ages ago - I think they are somewhere on Shawn Stanleys site... Cheers Rob > Has anyone designed any new Radiance spells? The Radiance using wizards in > Glantri are a powerful (and obsessed) crew. You know they've come up with > more spells than the short list the Gaz provides. Any ideas? > > > -Andy Morrow > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Say Bye to Slow Internet! > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:22:01 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) In-Reply-To: <65.90734e6.26db5262@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:28 AM 8/28/00 EDT, you wrote: > >How is G:KoM? How much (& what exactly) is missing; is it worth >getting both or would only Gaz 3 be worth it? I'd recommend Gaz 3 myself, but as I mentioned, G:KoM is a decent alternative. The major differences are that G:KoM gives several NPCs full fledged descriptions (stats, skills, etc, ad nauseum) which depending on your tastes, may or may not be necessary. In contrast, Gaz3 gives short descriptions of NPCs, but does manage to give ability scores for all of them. Also, the section on Glantri City gets the short shrift in G:KoM, as Gaz3 does a wonderful job of highlighting dozens of the more interesting locales in G. City, while G:KoM cuts things short (presumably so they would have more pages of spells). Which is another point- G:KoM has a lot of new spells, but if you're like me and are more than satisfied (if not overwhelmed!) with the ones you've got, then this section doesn't do much for you. The crafts are pretty much the same in both editions, though G:KoM introduces the concept of the crafts causing physical changes in their practitioners... at least in all crafts but Witchcraft, which was the only one in Gaz3 that caused deformations! The history section in G:KoM isn't quite as interesting as Gaz3, which had a neat narrative format (in fact, the narrative throughout Gaz3 is interesting, if sporadic). Gaz3 also has lots of little tidbits like info on the Great School of Magic and its curriculum, the laws of Glantri City, and tons of interesting little adventure hooks. G:KoM has one big adventure (and a CD which is pretty bad), and several less fleshed out and (to me) fairly forgettable adventures. G:KoM also has information on some Glantrian kits and creating "Progeny", which are essentially mutated characters... kind of uninteresting to me, but others seem to like it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:26:52 CDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed We did something like this in some of my earliest games (circa '81). I had Glantri go into all out civil war with the people, aided by foreign clerics rising up against the rulers, whom they felt were most inhuman monsters (literally and figuratively). In the end of this epic, which came to be know as the Ecclesiastic War, Glantri's government was over thrown and a Priest-King sat on the throne to govern the new lands of Glantri (the 'Principalities of' was dropped). This became a central feature in my future games. Warlock. >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:42:53 EDT >From: SR Johnson >Subject: Strange times in Glantri (was Re: Secular humanism and Glantri) > >In a message dated 8/27/00 5:04:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >lby3@LBY3.COM=20 >writes: > > > Good thoughts. My main goal would be to make the players be =20 > > REALLY sorry > > there's no clerics in Glantri. I know that Synn is aligned with the >Spher= >e > > of Entropy, not with AD&D evil outer planes, but I'm going to link >those > > forces into one continuum, with wizards being tempted by succubi, >student= >s > > who may or may not be cambions and alu-demons and a whole lot of >wizards > > selling their souls for power. > > Entropy can be considered evil since it represents many things nor- >mally considered evil: chaos, destruction, decay, sadism, and death. > > > Without an in-country defense against such things -- a Bless >spel= >l=20 > > would go a long way -- the Glantrians are ripe for trouble. > > Now I've got a vision of a M-KGB-type Glantian secret police=20 > > responsible for stamping out religiosity and inadvertantly helping >clear=20 > > the field for infernalists ... > > What if, like the USSR, Glantri's society were running out of time, >ex- >cept not from economic collapse, but rather a collapse beneath reckless=20 >magic. The "open-invitation" to lower planar-beings has been accepted=20 >and a virtual flood opens up. Of course, it would be up to PCs to see=20 >the signs of this oncoming deluge and prevent it. And that KGB could=20 >also take on the role of the MIB (men in black), trying to hold down=20 >what they know is an inevitable invasion (can you say X-files?). Might=20 >the PCs even be hired by them to clean up some mess? Glantri=E2=80=94 >damned witch's cauldron of intrigue, strangeness and mayhem! =20 >[BTW, if you couldn't tell, I think your & David K's ideas radiate much=20 >coolness. I already wanted Gaz 3, but know I'm literally itching for it! >=20 >What enchantment did you guys cast on those posts?! 8-) ] >=E2=80=94Shawn J. > -- WebWarlock webwarlock@iname.com The Other Side, http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock Home of the Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:32:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000827225003.007bf580@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:50 PM 8/27/00 -0700, you wrote: > > I suspect they're both great products. Enough with the championing one >version of Mystara over another: It's gotten very old, y'all. I hope that my discussion of Gaz3/G:KoM didn't come across as me championing one over the other, at least not version wise, because that's not what I intended. Don't get me wrong- I still don't think the AD&D versions quite did the OD&D material justice, but I totally agree with your assessment that heralding one source of game material over another is kind of counterproductive and just plain silly. (That's one thing that the new 3rd Edition stuff has sunk in with me- that a game world is more than its rules... if not, then it's kind of bunk, IMO). I was trying to perform a valid comparison between the two products for anyone interested, and in my opinion (owning both) I do believe that Gaz3 is a better product, not because it was first, or because it's OD&D, but simply because, in my opinion, it offers more information- certainly information that I like- than the other product. >They're BOTH out of print, and if someone can track down one version, let's not >tell them they need to get back in archeology mode and KEEP digging "'cause the >REALLY good one is the one that's only on sale at eBay once every blue moon." And of course, this is dead on. In this particular case, I'd recommend Gaz3, *if* it can be found, and found at a reasonable price, but G:KoM is certainly going to be just as worthwhile to someone with neither product, and I suspect K:KoA is the same way. Either is better than none at all... and someone might actually prefer the additional NPC descriptions and new spells of G:KoM that I could have done without. (Man... I really need to make time to try and write up some reviews for Stan to post... grrrrr. So much to do...) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 07:38:23 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Hin: The Origin of the Species In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000828004649.007b6330@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:46 AM 8/28/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Is there any other canonical reference to the origins of the hin? The map in the Hollow World boxed set has them in central Davania. The Aryptian region... presumably before it became the Aryptian Desert. > Any good ideas based on canonical information? Geoff Gander mentions them in his timeline of the Vulture Peninsula people (can't think of their names offhand... Addakians?) We were working on a story on the MMB some time ago (alternating chapters) and in my next installment I was going to introduce a Davanian halfling to the Shires, come to Brun in search of an artifact of the Carnifex. Oh, and the halfling was black. See, my Davanian halflings are the remnants of those ancient halflings that stayed in Davania. They live in the deserts of the Aryptian basin and combat the lizardkin threat that still exists there. They have become the guardians of the lore of ancient Lhomarr, and safeguard the world from any hint of the resurgence of the Carnifex threat. Their migration to the Shires was in part prompted by dimensional incongruencies in the region, which were thought to have been caused by the Carnifex attempting to break free of their prison (it wasn't- it was the cataclysm that introduced Blackflame into the Normal Dimension). Anyway, that's the gist of my take on the Davanian halflings. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:56:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Hin: The Origin of the Species Beau wrote: > Is there any other canonical reference to the origins of the hin? > Any good ideas based on canonical information? Well, aside from Jacob's citation of the HW boxed set, the only thing I could suggest would be a timeline for the lost nation of Varellya that I wrote some time ago. In it, I added a little backstory to explain the pressure that forced the Hin to move (those human pressure alluded to in the boxed set timeline). Hope this helps, Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:56:38 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > While this is true, it also makes things a lot easier for the > counterintelligence > specialist. Setting up honey-traps becomes a matter of a potion or > spell, finding where a spy might be becomes a matter of making special > detection spells, passing on disinformation or misinformation becomes > easy. In short, there are plenty of ways to mess with a magical spy. It > almost makes finding nonmagical spies harder... > Since one of the major endeavours of any intelligence agency is to learn and counter their opponent's counter-intelligence capabilities, what's your problem? You put moles in their staff and bribe, coerce and use magic to get information or access to areas from disgruntled low ranking office staff. Like in the real world, except for the magic which they've never "admitted" to having. ;^) There's also the fact that any agency with actually "intelligence" will use the tools as appropriate. If mundane humint is sufficient, magint being deemed to risky because of known countering, then humint is all you get. However the transporting of humint by magical means back to HQ will take place as soon as is convenient. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:10:20 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/27/00 10:59:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: << At least, let's hold off on this sort of talk until both versions are available in PDF versions through WotC. >> Which is exactly the reason I've put off trying to track down any of the Gazetteers. It's easier to just let WotC do it for me. Hmm, which gives me an idea. I remember WotC saying something about doing a Realms CD-Rom that would have all the old material on it, not just the stuff they decide to put up on the web. You think we could convince them to do the same for Mystara? It wouldn't be *nearly* as difficult to do as Forgotten Realms, and that way everyone could have access to all the old info, especially some of us newer Mystara-addicts, without having to break the bank tracking rare boxed sets and gazetteers. Well? -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 17:12:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > It would be foolhardy for espionage professionals to engage in such > amateurish activities. Spies in the real world do not go around > blowing up FBI offices! They find clever ways to work around it. > After all, destroying a magical protection that counts as a major > national resource would incur a disproportionate response. Would > YOU want to be holding the bomb-making materials? This would > ensure that all espionage activities you are engaged in would be blown > and it could start a shooting war, something espionage is designed > to prevent! > Funnily enough foolhardy or not history is littered with such activities. That's why you use Turks and Bulgarians in the real world,or fund an extreme group in an opponents country, they're deniable. Even if a link can be intimated they obviously exceeded their orders and you are very sorry for all the damage caused and swear it'll never happen again. As for that crap about starting a shooting war, not unless things were already well on their way there anyway. You accuse your opponent of committing the act themselves just to start a war etc. Money and a few prisoners change hands on the QT and it all goes away. BTW it takes a while for the scum at the top to make sure that they have sufficient holdings in armaments companies and such, and that if things go wrong their own safety is guaranteed no matter the outcome. No hostilities until that's been sorted. :^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:32:40 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:10 08/28/2000 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >Which is exactly the reason I've put off trying to track down any of the >Gazetteers. It's easier to just let WotC do it for me. > >Hmm, which gives me an idea. I remember WotC saying something about doing a >Realms CD-Rom that would have all the old material on it, not just the stuff >they decide to put up on the web. You think we could convince them to do the >same for Mystara? Nope. They decided against the FR one, as it won't be cost-effective in their view. >It wouldn't be *nearly* as difficult to do as Forgotten Realms, and that way >everyone could have access to all the old info, especially some of us newer >Mystara-addicts, without having to break the bank tracking rare boxed sets >and gazetteers. > >Well? Hey, I'd love it -- especially since now it turns out that, in addition to WotI, I need CoM and the HW boxed set ... -- but I can't see it happening officially/legally. (The odds that someone won't subscribe to the PDF feeds of all the worlds and burn illegal CDs full of the supplements is pretty much slim to none.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:58:00 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Do not misunderstand me. Humint is likely the basis for all intelligence regarding intentions, simply because it would be easy enough to create spells to counter magical workings designed to do such. I see it as analagous to the situation we have today with ELINT, PHOTINT, SATINT, and the like. The technical means allow for vast quantities of raw intel to get into the hot little hands of the analyst. The downside is that everyone knows how to spoof these systems. Does that mean we shouldn't use them? No. It means that no one method is reliable. "Mundane humint" is better for some things than magint and even magically-supported humint. It certainly leaves fewer traces that can be tracked down. The addition of magic to the realm of intelligence gathering would cause headaches for everyone; just as it would reap great rewards. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Spy networks > > While this is true, it also makes things a lot easier for the > > counterintelligence > > specialist. Setting up honey-traps becomes a matter of a potion or > > spell, finding where a spy might be becomes a matter of making special > > detection spells, passing on disinformation or misinformation becomes > > easy. In short, there are plenty of ways to mess with a magical spy. It > > almost makes finding nonmagical spies harder... > > > Since one of the major endeavours of any intelligence agency is to learn > and counter their opponent's counter-intelligence capabilities, what's your > problem? You put moles in their staff and bribe, coerce and use magic to get > information or access to areas from disgruntled low ranking office staff. > Like in the real world, except for the magic which they've never "admitted" > to having. ;^) > There's also the fact that any agency with actually "intelligence" will > use the tools as appropriate. If mundane humint is sufficient, magint being > deemed to risky because of known countering, then humint is all you get. > However the transporting of humint by magical means back to HQ will take > place as soon as is convenient. > > > Hamlet I, v, 166. > Words to live by? > > Paul > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:04:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) > Funnily enough foolhardy or not history is littered with such > activities. That's why you use Turks and Bulgarians in the real world,or > fund an extreme group in an opponents country, they're deniable. Even if a > link can be intimated they obviously exceeded their orders and you are very > sorry for all the damage caused and swear it'll never happen again. Sure. I said espionage professionals. There is a long history of mercenaries being hired to do crazy things that the pros would (and should) never attempt. Think of the dumb things the CIA has gotten caught at when they try to do it themselves... > As for that crap about starting a shooting war, not unless things were > already well on their way there anyway. You accuse your opponent of > committing the act themselves just to start a war etc. Money and a few > prisoners change hands on the QT and it all goes away. > Are you saying that if a foreign power decided to take down the SIGINT base at Fort Meade with, say a huge truck/aircraft bomb or a tacnuke, that we wouldn't go gunning for them as soon as we found out who did it? How would that not consititute an act of war? > BTW it takes a while for the scum at the top to make sure that they have > sufficient holdings in armaments companies and such, and that if things go > wrong their own safety is guaranteed no matter the outcome. No hostilities > until that's been sorted. :^) Since when has that ever stopped someone from going to war? George ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:10:15 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lord Deldain wrote: > > Which is exactly the reason I've put off trying to track down any of the > Gazetteers. It's easier to just let WotC do it for me. The reason I'm willing to dig up the old Gaz modules is because a) they're usually cheap and b) I hate printing PDFs. :-) > It wouldn't be *nearly* as difficult to do as Forgotten Realms, and that way > everyone could have access to all the old info, especially some of us newer > Mystara-addicts, without having to break the bank tracking rare boxed sets > and gazetteers. Ha. From ebay, those boxed sets are more common than usenet trolls. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:35:28 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 10:45:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NE= T=20 writes: > I hope that my discussion of Gaz3/G:KoM didn't come across as me > championing one over the other, at least not version wise, because that's > not what I intended. Don't get me wrong- I still don't think the AD&D > =20 Don't sweat that, the message was really directed at me, I was a=20 tad inconsiderate in my dis of K:KoA (didn't think about those who may=20 have ONLY that version of Karameikos. Thanks for answering my=20 questions about Gaz3/G:KoM. If you saw my second post, you know=20 that now I MUST OWN THEM BOTH, SO SAY THE IMMORTALS! If you ever come across a copy of Gaz3 (newish OR beaten-up),=20 please drop me an email or post to the MML! Meanwhile, I'll be=20 prowling ebay & various online stores for a copy. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:44:59 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 12:24:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.CO= M=20 writes: > It wouldn't be *nearly* as difficult to do as Forgotten Realms, and that w= ay > everyone could have access to all the old info, especially some of us new= er > Mystara-addicts, without having to break the bank tracking rare boxed set= s > and gazetteers. > =20 You don't necessarily have to do that, the announcement WotC [see the Mystara website for more info: http://dnd.starflung.com/ ] made=20 about re-releasing all old game products in PDF format (acrobat=20 reader) by, or soon after, Xmas 2000 seems to be a genuine one. =20 One could always bide their time until then using whatever info one=20 already has, creativity and the wonderful input of the MML. =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:56:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/28/00 10:26:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, xenya@TELEPORT.COM writes: << The reason I'm willing to dig up the old Gaz modules is because a) they're usually cheap and b) I hate printing PDFs. :-) >> True, but I doubt there would be much from the Gazetteers I'd need to print. And anything I would need to print I could just print in class on one of the school's really nice laserjet printers instead of my crappy, old deskjet. ;) << Ha. From ebay, those boxed sets are more common than usenet trolls. >> Ok, I should have probably said ridiculously overpriced instead of rare. I've seen plenty of copies of all the Gazetteers but some have just been *way* out of the price range I'm willing to pay for gaming books. Hopefully the pay-per-download versions will be signifigantly cheaper. -Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:11:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Mundane humint" is better for some things than > magint and even magically-supported humint. It certainly > leaves fewer traces that can be tracked down. I'd say that Humint with non detection magical support is the best since otherwise it's fairly easy to use magical tracking means to find the culprits. The addition > of magic to the realm of intelligence gathering would cause > headaches for everyone; just as it would reap great rewards. That's what makes it so much fun, and gives so much scope to be dropped into campaigns. Adventurers make such good throwaway asets if set up to do your job for you. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:18:22 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Are you saying that if a foreign power decided to take down the SIGINT > base at Fort Meade with, say a huge truck/aircraft bomb or a tacnuke, that > we wouldn't go gunning for them as soon as we found out who did it? How > would that not consititute an act of war? > I've always prefered using a scalpel to a sledgehammer in any covert ops stuff I've run or played in. You don't need to waste all that effort and make a big splash if you do the job properly. It's usually easier to do in many cases too, just taking a little longer in the preparation stages. > > BTW it takes a while for the scum at the top to make sure that they > have > > sufficient holdings in armaments companies and such, and that if things go > > wrong their own safety is guaranteed no matter the outcome. No hostilities > > until that's been sorted. :^) > > Since when has that ever stopped someone from going to war? > Historically it's stopped a few from going to war right that minute though. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:18:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lord Deldain wrote: > > True, but I doubt there would be much from the Gazetteers I'd need to print. > And anything I would need to print I could just print in class on one of the > school's really nice laserjet printers instead of my crappy, old deskjet. ;) True. :-) I like to have bound books, myself. > << Ha. From ebay, those boxed sets are more common than usenet trolls. >> > > Ok, I should have probably said ridiculously overpriced instead of rare. I've > seen plenty of copies of all the Gazetteers but some have just been *way* out > of the price range I'm willing to pay for gaming books. I've seen some at rather low prices, actually. > Hopefully the pay-per-download versions will be signifigantly cheaper. Of that, I have no doubt. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:17:20 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hmm, which gives me an idea. I remember WotC saying something about doing a > Realms CD-Rom that would have all the old material on it, not just the stuff > they decide to put up on the web. You think we could convince them to do the > same for Mystara? > > It wouldn't be *nearly* as difficult to do as Forgotten Realms, and that way > everyone could have access to all the old info, especially some of us newer > Mystara-addicts, without having to break the bank tracking rare boxed sets > and gazetteers. > > Well? > > -Deldain Oh, I wish! Although I've got all the gazetteers, they are looking quite a bit dog-eared after years of frequent use. A mystara cd with all the gazetteers would save them alot of wear and tear. Perhaps they would even do adventure cds too, with a load of out-of-print D&D adventures on them. I'd definately pay good money for that! :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:46:20 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phillip Jones wrote: > > Oh, I wish! Although I've got all the gazetteers, they are looking quite a > bit dog-eared after years of frequent use. A mystara cd with all the > gazetteers would save them alot of wear and tear. Perhaps they would even do > adventure cds too, with a load of out-of-print D&D adventures on them. I'd > definately pay good money for that! :) What I intend to do - for my personal use - is download the PDFs and burn them onto CD. :-) Sure, it's not WotC"s CD, but I can live with that. :-) -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:06:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Espionage (was Re: Teleportation and Espionage) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 1:25:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 georgeh@HEP.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU writes: > Are you saying that if a foreign power decided to take down the SIGINT > base at Fort Meade with, say a huge truck/aircraft bomb or a tacnuke, tha= t > we wouldn't go gunning for them as soon as we found out who did it? How > would that not consititute an act of war? > =20 I wasn't going to reply to this string at first, but there's something=20 I HAVE to say: "We are dealing with a MEDIEVAL world here!"=20 Albeit, it is a fantasy one also but I don't think modern concepts of=20 "acts of war" are necessary. In a medieval world, what few treaties=20 may exist are broken whenever a nation feels it is worth their while=20 to do so. There are no UN-like bodies to consider or disregard. The rule of law does not yet exist in the force it does today (it took=20 humanity this long to appreciate peace=E2=80=94probably only due to the=20 wealth it protects!). Nations in Mystara never HAVE to justify their attacks on others nor even fully investigate attacks before retaliating on whomever they'd like to blame. If you've played Baldur's Gate,=20 remember how Amn & Baldur's Gate were all too ready to believe=20 it was the other who was responsible for all the mayhem in the=20 region? Had either's rulership been more hot-headed, war might've=20 broken out immediately=E2=80=94esp. if long-standing hatred was present.=20 =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:42:44 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM In-Reply-To: <39AAAD0D.2FC6FCB6@teleport.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:18 08/28/2000 -0700, Deirdre M. Brooks wrote: >Lord Deldain wrote: >> >> True, but I doubt there would be much from the Gazetteers I'd need to print. >> And anything I would need to print I could just print in class on one of the >> school's really nice laserjet printers instead of my crappy, old deskjet. ;) > >True. :-) I like to have bound books, myself. I'm likely going to get all the PDF materials -- along with campaign materials I've created -- bound together in one of those fancy office printers. >> Ok, I should have probably said ridiculously overpriced instead of rare. I've >> seen plenty of copies of all the Gazetteers but some have just been *way* out >> of the price range I'm willing to pay for gaming books. > >I've seen some at rather low prices, actually. Which? Other than DotE, which I'm not spending money on, although I'll gladly use the Thyatis stuff once it's PDFed, the others seem to START cheap and end up upwards of $20. Well, other than KKoA and GKoM, which are so common -- even shrinkwrapped -- that they go for less than $10, typically, as do the boxed adventures. (The REAL bargain on eBay, IMO, are shrinkwrapped Al-Qadim materials, almost all of which were superb and are eminently adaptable to Mystara, incidentally.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:23:05 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: CDrom Archive (was Re: Gaz3/G:KoM) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 12:24:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Deldain@AOL.CO= M=20 writes: > Hmm, which gives me an idea. I remember WotC saying something about doing=20= a > Realms CD-Rom that would have all the old material on it, not just the=20 stuff > they decide to put up on the web. You think we could convince them to do=20 the > same for Mystara? > =20 Before I heard about the release of all old Mystara products in=20 electronic=20 format (PDF, I think), I too wished for a cool CD-Rom Encyclopedic resource. But at best, I think WotC could only make this work, if they coupled it with= =20 sales of some other product. Dragon or Dungeon would be good candidates but still, it would likely only be available for a premium. They could=20 include a=20 monthly or bi-monthly CD that held new &/or old PDF files on each setting=20 for D&D. When I first thought of this I realized it would mean they'd have=20 to=20 dole out the products slowly (maybe only two or even one a month). So I=20 was VERY happy to hear about them releasing everything for download. =20 Now, it is just a matter of enduring the wait until xmas (the tentative=20 deadline)! I keep trying to remember it's only four months away, but it=20 doesn't work very well. When the products are finally released, we'll all=20 likely be giddier than a group of youthful Hin drunk on brandywine! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:28:13 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Spy networks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All of my campaigns have adventurers working for spooks at some level, whether they know it or not. After all, adventurers are natural assets for plausible deniability. At least until they acquire status, and then they can be used as agents-in-place. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul George Dooley" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Spy networks > "Mundane humint" is better for some things than > > magint and even magically-supported humint. It certainly > > leaves fewer traces that can be tracked down. > > I'd say that Humint with non detection magical support is the best since > otherwise it's fairly easy to use magical tracking means to find the > culprits. > > The addition > > of magic to the realm of intelligence gathering would cause > > headaches for everyone; just as it would reap great rewards. > > That's what makes it so much fun, and gives so much scope to be dropped > into campaigns. Adventurers make such good throwaway asets if set up to do > your job for you. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:57:31 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Espionage (was Re: Teleportation and Espionage) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > I wasn't going to reply to this string at first, but there's something >I HAVE to say: "We are dealing with a MEDIEVAL world here! >Albeit, it is a fantasy one also but I don't think modern concepts of >"acts of war" are necessary. In a medieval world, what few treaties >may exist are broken whenever a nation feels it is worth their while >to do so. There are no UN-like bodies to consider or disregard. >The rule of law does not yet exist in the force it does today (it took >humanity this long to appreciate peace—probably only due to the >wealth it protects!). Nations in Mystara never HAVE to justify their >attacks on others nor even fully investigate attacks before retaliating >on whomever they'd like to blame. If you've played Baldur's Gate, >remember how Amn & Baldur's Gate were all too ready to believe >it was the other who was responsible for all the mayhem in the >region? Had either's rulership been more hot-headed, war might've >broken out immediately—esp. if long-standing hatred was present. Two notes on this matter, Medieval, I suppose you mean Eurpean c. 800-1400, but there are a number SIGNIFICANT differences. The first is the concept of nations, this is a significant deviation from a medieval outlook. From a Political Science perspective the study of Foriegn Relations starts in 1648 (yes, we CAN be exact about this date) when the Treaty of Westphalia created the first Nation-States, which we can see in a number of Known World Nations, (Most obviously, Darokin, and Glantri). We also know that extremely complex and sophisticated intelligence organizations existed before this. Some examples are, Elizabeth I had an extremely active organization in England, as did Richelieu in France, and the Pope had the Jesuits who (though maybe this was not their primary mission) were involved in intelligence gathering and occaisional sabotage efforts. The second is the possibility of reliable long distance individual communication/transportation, possibly quicker than anypoint in RW history before 1930, (It still took 60 days to go from DC to SF Ca in 1919 by car.) Having said this, in the Medieval Era there were some tenants and an Super-State Political entity that sought ot keep the peace. These are the concept of the Just War and the Vatican. Finally, lets remember in modern (since 1850, and two of these examples since 1980) this nation has gone to war with or invaded foriegn countries because we did not maintain our equipment very well (1898 Spanish-American War, the Maine blew up because of a boiler fault, provoking the Yellow Press, and then war), to build a railroad (1868 peacekeeping action in Nicuragua), to protect a couple hundred medical students from Cuban teachers (Grenada 1983), and to arrest a Crack dealer (1989, Operation Just Cause), so I would hardly say that random aggression was exclusively the province of the pre-UN state. Oh yeah we invaded Somalia to feed them (1992). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:21:55 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Web Warlock wrote: > We did something like this in some of my earliest games (circa '81). > I had Glantri go into all out civil war with the people, aided by = foreign > clerics rising up against the rulers, whom they felt were most inhuman > monsters (literally and figuratively). >=20 > In the end of this epic, which came to be know as the Ecclesiastic = War, > Glantri's government was over thrown and a Priest-King sat on the = throne to > govern the new lands of Glantri (the 'Principalities of' was dropped). = This > became a central feature in my future games. I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but I have to ask: What was your = Glantri like in '81, since the GAZ didn't come out till '87? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:35:37 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beau wrote: > especially since now it turns out that, in addition to > WotI, I need CoM and the HW boxed set ... Beau, if you're looking for HW because of halfling info, don't bother. = I've quoted everything from that set in my previous mail on Hin = migration. CoM, on the other hand, would likely be necessary if you want = to go canon with adventures in Yavdlom/Sind Desert. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:33:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: On Topic (was "Espionage") >> Two notes on this matter, << Please try and mix in a modicum of information pertanant to this lists topic (which is "Mystara" not, "my interpretation of recent IRL affairs") amid your posts, to keep them germain. IRL examples are fine, but they should all be related in a substantive way to mystara. Otherwise the list tends to explode in pointless debates having nothing to do with the topic people joined the list to explore (again, that topic would be: Mystara), and no one likes it when that happens. For your, or anyone else's, edification, there are a number of newsgroups I can provide addresses to for those who wish to discuss various interpretations of IRL events, or just spout off their IRL political points of view. Contact me privately if you're interested, at: jruhlconob@sprynet.com and I'll be more than happy to help. Otherwise, please lets try and stay on topic. Some of the worst spats and flames tend to start when people get into their disputes and disagreements over IRL stuff that has little or no pertinance to Mystara. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:43:28 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Espionage (was Re: Teleportation and Espionage) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You make some good points. However, there are border clashes (which, despite the UN, continue to this day) and there are full blown wars. My operational definition of a war is a concerted effort to destroy or occupy an enemy nation, or to take action to prevent or reverse such. War is a drastic step that has great cost even against a relatively minor foe. It involves garrisoning troops and tying down national resources. It is not a step taken lightly, even in a medievel setting. Most medievel wars were what we would classify as a low-intensity conflict (due to limitations in transportation and command and control). Adding magic to the picture makes warfare, even in a medievel setting, look very modern. Commanders use magic to keep track of their troops and issue orders, magical devices or spell casters can transport large numbers of lightly armed troops (or smaller numbers of heavily armed troops) large distances, supplies can be moved quickly by magical transport, spell casters can produce large-scale damage causing effects, etc. War is rare, border skirmishes are common. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "SR Johnson" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 2:06 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Espionage (was Re: Teleportation and Espionage) In a message dated 8/28/00 1:25:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, georgeh@HEP.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU writes: > Are you saying that if a foreign power decided to take down the SIGINT > base at Fort Meade with, say a huge truck/aircraft bomb or a tacnuke, that > we wouldn't go gunning for them as soon as we found out who did it? How > would that not consititute an act of war? > I wasn't going to reply to this string at first, but there's something I HAVE to say: "We are dealing with a MEDIEVAL world here!" Albeit, it is a fantasy one also but I don't think modern concepts of "acts of war" are necessary. In a medieval world, what few treaties may exist are broken whenever a nation feels it is worth their while to do so. There are no UN-like bodies to consider or disregard. The rule of law does not yet exist in the force it does today (it took humanity this long to appreciate peace—probably only due to the wealth it protects!). Nations in Mystara never HAVE to justify their attacks on others nor even fully investigate attacks before retaliating on whomever they'd like to blame. If you've played Baldur's Gate, remember how Amn & Baldur's Gate were all too ready to believe it was the other who was responsible for all the mayhem in the region? Had either's rulership been more hot-headed, war might've broken out immediately—esp. if long-standing hatred was present. —Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 16:51:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: On Topic (was "Espionage") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you would follow the thread we were discussing how magic could enhance and/or detriment intelligence gathering in Mystara. If you are not interested in this topic, you need not respond. Since most of us do not, in fact, live in a fantasy world, we must seek real world analogies. This should come as no great surprise since at some level all of Mystara is based on the real world (even its geography). In this manner we are staying "on topic." George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evil Genius" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] On Topic (was "Espionage") > >> Two notes on this matter, << > > Please try and mix in a modicum of information pertanant to this lists topic (which is "Mystara" not, "my interpretation of recent IRL affairs") amid your posts, to keep them germain. > > IRL examples are fine, but they should all be related in a substantive way to mystara. Otherwise the list tends to explode in pointless debates having nothing to do with the topic people joined the list to explore (again, that topic would be: Mystara), and no one likes it when that happens. > > For your, or anyone else's, edification, there are a number of newsgroups I can provide addresses to for those who wish to discuss various interpretations of IRL events, or just spout off their IRL political points of view. Contact me privately if you're interested, at: jruhlconob@sprynet.com and I'll be more than happy to help. > > Otherwise, please lets try and stay on topic. Some of the worst spats and flames tend to start when people get into their disputes and disagreements over IRL stuff that has little or no pertinance to Mystara. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:12:07 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: On Topic (was Mystara wrote: >> If you would follow the thread we were discussing how magiccould enhance and/or detriment intelligence gathering in Mystara. If you are not interested in this topic, you need not respond. << I have kept up with the thread, thank you very much. The post I was replying to, if you had read it, made no connection between the "points" it was making and Mystara. If you're interested in that discussion, then it should be taken off this board. As for the topic of espionage in Mystara, drawing on appropriate real-world analogies and connecting them to Mystara, that is perfectly fine. But the post in question, again had you read it (which I suppose its not clear you did) listed the author's pet peeves and personal interpretations of IRL political history, making no real attempt (no attempt at all) to connect those points (such as they were) to Mystara. That is not staying "on topic". But I thank you for your carefully considered post none the less. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:10:18 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM (was I just want to take a moment...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Perhaps they would even do >adventure cds too, with a load of out-of-print D&D adventures on them. I'd >definately pay good money for that! :) This seems a more practical option for WotC; as I gather, they are reducing the number of game material published by year and the lion's share seems to be going into core books, supplements and rule-focused books (or 3E campaign settings, FR and GH), as opposite to the huge amount of adventures that TSR pulled in the 80s and 90s. Wizards has said somewhere that Dungeon is a primary source of "generic adventures", plus they are doing quite a lot of .PDF publishing on the net, actually, far more than before 3E project and launching. I guess that the idea of downloads or CDs with OOP adventures, some of them paying, with the occasional free bonus (the "monthly download" Wizards seems to be following), would keep players hooked. Let's face it, not every player takes care into spinning a big detailed campaign and prepare one home-made adventure per month. providing with D&D, 1st AD&D and 2nd AD&D adventures could help Wizards keep players hooked with a lot of material they can dish out with null design and production effort (just some OCR and text formatting work), and players and DMs can use the conversion rules that Wizards is so happy to provide. Andres ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 00:31:18 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 23:25:17 David Knott wrote: >In a message dated 2000-08-27 7:03:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > >> This really confuses me... I admit that I may be wrong since I don't have >the >> gaz and it's been some time since I read it, but IIRC the Karameikos gaz >> lists the spells that wizards of the nation know, and I don't think >Teleport >> is one of them. How would wizards of Karameikos (who are few) be able to >> block a spell none of them know about??? > >Maybe the ambassador from Glantri arranged it? > Well, they could, but why would they? They would themselves be one of the prime nations to benefit from the lack of such a ward, methinks. Same thing applies for the Alphatians (well, maybe just Terari) at Krakatos after WOTI, incidentally. There might have been no Alphatian Empire, but there was certainly NACE (or at least the beginning of it). - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:45:40 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Which raises the issue for me that the list of "Warrior Skills" in 3E is lousy. I don't care how many cool combat feats you give them over other players, that is just Roll-play. Skills help to flesh out the 'role-play' of a characters background and history. I'm going to have to revamp that list for my own players before i get too much further into this 3E business. Any Mystaran Skills we should adapt from the Gaz lists as allowable skills for fighters? PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:37:48 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Catherine Keene Subject: MISC: New to the list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello! I'm new to this list, but my familiarity with Mystara is very out dated. I have all the Gazetteers, and the D&D Cyclopedia. I've run several campaigns in the Known World, and it was my favorite for a long, long time. However, support products began to slow, and there was increasing support for other worlds, and I got involved with the RPGA, which has long since gone to FR. So, I got involved in other stuff. I bought the Wrath of the Immortals, and *hated* it, and it's implications; I left the beloved Known World behind. With the advent of 3E D&D, I see old D&D concepts revised, and my thoughts have returned to Mystara. I figure, if I'm going to have to convert published materials for support, I might as well convert stuff that I love. So, I wonder what's happened in the world, and what support materials have been passed around, landed on the Internet, and what will be resurrected for 3E. Specifically, I'm looking for good maps in .GIF and .JPG format of the Known World, before Wrath of the Immortals blew up, or sank, Alphatia. Also, has someone compiled a comprehensive list of the Immortals, including such things as power-rank (for lack of a better term), holy symbols, and centers of worship? What sites have game information for dinosaurs like me? Thanks, Catherine Keene Ardelphia@aol.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:53:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/28/00 5:07:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: << Which raises the issue for me that the list of "Warrior Skills" in 3E is lousy. I don't care how many cool combat feats you give them over other players, that is just Roll-play. Skills help to flesh out the 'role-play' of a characters background and history. I'm going to have to revamp that list for my own players before i get too much further into this 3E business. Any Mystaran Skills we should adapt from the Gaz lists as allowable skills for fighters? >> What's so bad about the 'warrior' skill list? Sure it may be a little short, but I haven't known many (note that I said many) people who play fighters, paladins, and so on, with a large variety of skills/proficiencies/whatever. Anything a warrior character really wants he can still by as a cross-class skill, so it shouldn't really keep player's from getting skills they want that aren't class skills. Just my opinion, though. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:56:19 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-28 8:07:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BoBoII@AOL.COM writes: > Which raises the issue for me that the list of "Warrior Skills" in 3E is > lousy. I don't care how many cool combat feats you give them over other > players, that is just Roll-play. Skills help to flesh out the 'role-play' of > a characters background and history. I'm going to have to revamp that list > for my own players before i get too much further into this 3E business. Any > Mystaran Skills we should adapt from the Gaz lists as allowable skills for > fighters? > > PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? Maybe we could add a "Class Skill" feat that turns any selected skill into a class skill at the cost of burning up one feat? Given that a human fighter starts out with three feats, a player could select two such skills and still have a feat left over for pure combat purposes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:22:41 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? > My guess is the as of yet undescribed Leadership Skill will cover some of that. Dylan _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:04:40 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> This really confuses me... I admit that I may be wrong since I don't have > >the > >> gaz and it's been some time since I read it, but IIRC the Karameikos gaz > >> lists the spells that wizards of the nation know, and I don't think > >Teleport > >> is one of them. How would wizards of Karameikos (who are few) be able to > >> block a spell none of them know about??? > > > >Maybe the ambassador from Glantri arranged it? > > > > Well, they could, but why would they? They would themselves be one of the prime nations to benefit from the lack of such a ward, methinks. > > Same thing applies for the Alphatians (well, maybe just Terari) at Krakatos after WOTI, incidentally. There might have been no Alphatian Empire, but there was certainly NACE (or at least the beginning of it). > Then there's the possibility of some civic minded soul actually giving the spell to the guild, or that even though Teldon himself doesn't know it other mages in Karameikos do. After all apparently in the years after the gaz Bargle managed to learn it, that's how he looted Ludwig's treasure. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:08:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? > > > My guess is the as of yet undescribed Leadership Skill will cover some of > that. > What are they going to call the revamped version of the 2E Leadership skill then? ;^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:11:19 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) In-Reply-To: <002301c0115d$7f585520$b28e30d5@pauldool> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Mystara [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Paul George Dooley Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:05 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) * >> This really confuses me... I admit that I may be wrong since I don't have > >the > >> gaz and it's been some time since I read it, but IIRC the Karameikos gaz > >> lists the spells that wizards of the nation know, and I don't think > >Teleport > >> is one of them. How would wizards of Karameikos (who are few) be able to > >> block a spell none of them know about??? > > > >Maybe the ambassador from Glantri arranged it? > > > > Well, they could, but why would they? They would themselves be one of the prime nations to benefit from the lack of such a ward, methinks. > > Same thing applies for the Alphatians (well, maybe just Terari) at Krakatos after WOTI, incidentally. There might have been no Alphatian Empire, but there was certainly NACE (or at least the beginning of it). > Would not he Glantrians be interested in Excluding Alphatians and vice versa, and couldn't a clever king end up with two such devices each that excepts wizards of a single (but different nation DSR ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:11:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "D. S. Rickards" Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. In-Reply-To: <003101c0115e$05c3f420$b28e30d5@pauldool> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Mystara [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Paul George Dooley Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:08 PM To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Stefan skills.. > >PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? > > > My guess is the as of yet undescribed Leadership Skill will cover some of > that. > What are they going to call the revamped version of the 2E Leadership skill then? ;^) er ... caught ... unfamiliar .... With .... 2 E DSR ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:19:10 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Darth Darknerd Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Viking Developments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be developing some D&D3E materials for a Viking campaign. This will include classes, a new magic system: runic, Norse pantheon, feats, skills, and races (Trollborn or 1/2 Troll and Troll-Magi). These naturally will be adapted as an update to the GAZ7: Northern Reaches. Some material might be submitted to Dragon, but if they are not interested, I will create a website and post the material there, as well as other applicable resources. This is a letter for a basic invite of people interested in contributing or reviewing the material, possibly play testing as well. Also, as material is completed, I will naturally post it here to see what people think. Currently there are two people, with another possible person (historian at Stanford). thanks, Joaquin Menchaca HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:31:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? > > > > > My guess is the as of yet undescribed Leadership Skill will cover some of > > that. > > > What are they going to call the revamped version of the 2E Leadership > skill then? ;^) > > er ... caught ... unfamiliar .... With .... 2 E > DSR > IIRC it allows you to command 100 troops per level and gives you +2 on your loyalty adjustment it's in C&T. However well before then a similar skill existed in OD&D. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 23:15:36 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-28 10:20:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RVAExile@EMAIL.MSN.COM writes: > What are they going to call the revamped version of the 2E Leadership > skill then? ;^) I don't mean to nitpick but -- in 3E Leadership is a feat, not a skill. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:38:21 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: MISC: New to the list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Hello! > > I'm new to this list, but my familiarity with Mystara is very out dated. Welcome! > So, I wonder what's happened in the world, and what support materials have > been passed around, landed on the Internet, and what will be resurrected for > 3E. Well, the first reference we can give you is the Shawn Stanley's official Mystara Homepage at http://dnd.starflung.com Most works from this list, in addition to releases of OOPs and other goodies end up there. > Specifically, I'm looking for good maps in .GIF and .JPG format of the Known > World, before Wrath of the Immortals blew up, or sank, Alphatia. Here, the best reference I can give you is Thibault's website (http://www.mystara.com.bi), which collects most maps made by Thib himself and others. > Also, has > someone compiled a comprehensive list of the Immortals, including such things > as power-rank (for lack of a better term), holy symbols, and centers of > worship? In the official website, look for http://dnd.starflung.com/immortal.html > What sites have game information for dinosaurs like me? Other than the usual official website, a good number of reviewed Mystaran links can be found at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/index.html Bye, -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.