========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:32:39 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: MISC: New to the list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/28/00 9:03:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 Ardelphia@AOL.COM writes: > Hello! > =20 > I'm new to this list, but my familiarity with Mystara is very out dated.=20= I > have all the Gazetteers, and the D&D Cyclopedia. I've run several=20 campaigns > in the Known World, and it was my favorite for a long, long time.=20 Welcome! If you have ALL the gazetteers, you may be one up on=20 quite a few of us. I myself may send some questions your way before=20 long, but l'll answer yours first. =20 > With the advent of 3E D&D, I see old D&D concepts revised, and my=20 > thoughts have returned to Mystara. I figure, if I'm going to have to=20 convert > published materials for support, I might as well convert stuff that I lov= e. You may have help, there is a good deal of conversion talk on this=20 list. There's even a discussion group specifically about 3E conversion,=20 contact info is listed under Links at the official Mystara website: http://dnd.starflung.com/ > So, I wonder what's happened in the world, and what support materials hav= e > been passed around, landed on the Internet, and what will be resurrected=20 for > 3E. You already know about Wrath of the Immortals (WotI), from what I=20 know, there's just that and the events from Joshuan's Almanac. Are you=20 familiar with the Voyage of the Princess Ark articles in Dragon mag? It=20 explores large tracks of the southern continent of Davania & Brun (past=20 Sind). As for info resurrected for 3E, if you were hoping for new official=20 products, the chances are slim to none. But Wizards is re-releasing=20 old Mystara products via downloads soon--check out "The Latest=20 News" at the Mystara website for more info. There are also fan- created aImanacs available there (under Almanacs) for 1014-1016 AC. > Specifically, I'm looking for good maps in .GIF and .JPG format of the=20 Known > World, before Wrath of the Immortals blew up, or sank, Alphatia.=20 This site specializes in maps, (I think they are pre-WotI), its URL=20 is its name, but I like to call it Thibault's Vault of Gaming Goodness!=20 http://www.mystara.com.bi/ =20 Also, there's some excellent maps of Davania & Norworld (created=20 by Geoff Gander) available at the official website. (again) http://dnd.starflung.com/ > Also, has someone compiled a comprehensive list of the Immortals,=20 > including such things as power-rank (for lack of a better term),=20 > holy symbols, and centers of worship? =20 I bet you know the answer--the official website has quite a=20 few articles about Immortals and I think more than one list. =20 > What sites have game information for dinosaurs like me? I'm guilty of being a broken record here, but in the links section=20 of the official site there is a HORDE of links to other Mystara=20 sites. One worthy of note is the Mystara e-fanzine, The Tome=20 of Mystara: =20 http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ Glad to have another Mystaraphile on the MML (Mystara Mailing=20 List)! =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:28:04 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a HUGE difference between tactical skill and the ability to lead troops in combat. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dylan Rickards" To: Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Stefan skills.. > > > >PS: Yeah, where is the Military Tactics Skill?? > > > My guess is the as of yet undescribed Leadership Skill will cover some of > that. > > Dylan > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:26:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri In-Reply-To: <70.2789b1e.26d76447@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:55 AM 8/25/00 EDT, you wrote: > >However, I would have to disagree about Jaggar having Fighter >levels -- he believes too much in combat efficiency to do that. >Rather than give up an entire level of spellcasting ability to pick >a Fighter level, he would be more likely to pick up a few combat >feats from among his general feats. Weapon specialization is >the only relevant feat that would be unavailable to him, and I >already have a few ideas for getting around or compensating >for that limitation. I'd be wary of allowing all classes to get Weapon specialization if I were you- it's one of the chief abilities of the Fighter (like in 2nd Edition), and given the amount of playtesting that's been done, seems to be a balancing factor for them. >BTW, at one point I nominated Prince Jaggar as a possible >Sorcerer, but his Mastery of one of the Secret Crafts would >seem to preclude him from being anything other than a true >Wizard. Hmm, not sure I agree (of course, like Beau, I think Jaggar is most likely a wizard with a level or two of fighter, but...) Bear in mind which Craft he has Mastery in- Dracology- *and* the fact that he learned the craft from his father's notes (according to G:KoM) and not from attending the Great School of Magic, and the supposition that Sorcerors might get their power from a lineage to Dragons, and I think you've got a great argument in favor of Jaggar *being* a Sorceror. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:44:29 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/29/00 4:35:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, georgeh@HEP.PHYSICS.WISC.EDU writes: << There is a HUGE difference between tactical skill and the ability to lead troops in combat. >> I have a simply solution for this, someone could just make a Knowledge (Tactics) skill and count it a class skill for fighters. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:46:28 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Deirdre M. Brooks" Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit George Hrabovsky wrote: > > There is a HUGE difference between tactical skill and the ability to > lead troops in combat. Indeed. Tactics is "what do you do?" Leadership is "Now that I know what to do, how do I get my soldiers to do it?" -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:00:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: MISC: New to the list In-Reply-To: <33.980233f.26dc5fdc@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Catherine Keene wrote: > Hello! Welcome :) > I'm new to this list, but my familiarity with Mystara is very out dated. I > have all the Gazetteers, and the D&D Cyclopedia. I've run several campaigns > in the Known World, and it was my favorite for a long, long time. However, > support products began to slow, and there was increasing support for other > worlds, and I got involved with the RPGA, which has long since gone to FR. > So, I got involved in other stuff. I bought the Wrath of the Immortals, and > *hated* it, and it's implications; I left the beloved Known World behind. Having all the gaz's and WotI makes you one of the more knowlegdable listmembers, which is cool, and quite rare these days. > With the advent of 3E D&D, I see old D&D concepts revised, and my thoughts > have returned to Mystara. I figure, if I'm going to have to convert > published materials for support, I might as well convert stuff that I love. There is a separate mailinglist devoted to the conversion of Mystara to 3E at egroups.com. (Ofcourse this doesnt mean you cannot discuss that topic here.) > So, I wonder what's happened in the world, and what support materials have > been passed around, landed on the Internet, and what will be resurrected for > 3E. dnd.starflung.com is the best place to have a look. 3 net almanacs have been created. Several Hollow World net gazetteers, alternate timelines, Skothar, Davania and the Brun Midlands have been described as has the Hyborean Reaches. There is tons of material out there on the web. If you dont have the Savage Coast material, the official stuff can still be downloaded for free from the Wizards of the Coast homepage. (Recommended!) > Specifically, I'm looking for good maps in .GIF and .JPG format of the Known > World, before Wrath of the Immortals blew up, or sank, Alphatia. Also, has > someone compiled a comprehensive list of the Immortals, including such things > as power-rank (for lack of a better term), holy symbols, and centers of > worship? What sites have game information for dinosaurs like me? www.mystara.bi is the place to go for maps. dnd.starflung.com is the best place to go for everything else. However, there are tons of other good pages out there. Check out www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc/mlinks.html for a list. Sincerely, H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:18:46 CDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Web Warlock Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri Comments: cc: scythe@WANADOO.DK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I'm not calling you a liar or anything, but I have to ask: What was >your >Glantri like in '81, since the GAZ didn't come out till '87? > >Jacob Skytte >scythe@wanadoo.dk About as you would expect given my only references were what I could get out of my 1980 copy of the D&D Expert Set and Isle of the Dread. After I got a copy of the GAZ3 (from KayBee toys no less!) I liked it, but it was a very different place than I had been rolepalying in for the last few years. So I did what most people would have done. I ignored it and sold it on ebay about 12 years later! Warlock -- WebWarlock webwarlock@iname.com The Other Side, http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock Home of the Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:24:32 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Web Warlock wrote: > About as you would expect given my only references were what I could = get out > of my 1980 copy of the D&D Expert Set and Isle of the Dread. > After I got a copy of the GAZ3 (from KayBee toys no less!) I liked it, = but > it was a very different place than I had been rolepalying in for the = last > few years. So I did what most people would have done. I ignored it = and > sold it on ebay about 12 years later! Sounds cool. Would you care to elaborate some more on your Glantri (just = for kicks, love to hear what people have done differently)? Have you = treated any other nations as heretically :) as Glantri? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:26:29 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:04:40 Paul George Dooley wrote: >> Same thing applies for the Alphatians (well, maybe just Terari) at >Krakatos after WOTI, incidentally. There might have been no Alphatian >Empire, but there was certainly NACE (or at least the beginning of it). >> > Then there's the possibility of some civic minded soul actually giving >the spell to the guild, or that even though Teldon himself doesn't know it >other mages in Karameikos do. The only problem with that is that the list of Teldon's spells says pretty clearly that these are the spells known in Karameikos and that PC wizards thus may not choose other spells. Another point on this is, obviously, that Karameikos has a 'wizards shortage'... ;) That was a prime reason for Stefan's desire to have the Alphatians set up a school of wizardry in his nation. > After all apparently in the years after the >gaz Bargle managed to learn it, that's how he looted Ludwig's treasure. > I don't have gaz 1, so I could be very wrong, but IIRC Bargle was pointed out as a notable exception to the limits on the spells known in Karameikos - he has several that are not on Teldon's list, and I even think Teleport was one of them... Damn, I really *will* have to find that gaz 1 now, won't I? ;) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:38:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:11:19 D. S. Rickards wrote: (snip) >> Same thing applies for the Alphatians (well, maybe just Terari) at >Krakatos after WOTI, incidentally. There might have been no Alphatian >Empire, but there was certainly NACE (or at least the beginning of it). >> >Would not he Glantrians be interested in Excluding Alphatians and vice >versa, and couldn't a clever king end up with two such devices each that >excepts wizards of a single (but different nation I don't think you can make wards that 'selective' checks for nationality and such things... I wouldn't allow it IMC at any rate. Not because I couldn't handle the NPCs using such spells so much, but more because once I've established the possibility of such things, the PCs will want to make use of it too. Imagine the PC wizard who creates a heavily fortified stronghold inside a mountain or deep in the earth, which you can obviously reach only with Teleport or similar spells, and then he uses such wards to prevent entry by all but himself - I'd rather not have to deal with such problems. I could disallow it for the PCs, but I don't think that would be fair - if it works for the NPCs, then it should work for everybody. Besides, I don't care much for the idea and its implications in the first place. As for Stefan setting the Alphatians and Glantrians up against each other: yes, of course he could, but it would be ill adviced, I think - just look at what happened during the recent WOTI war! Such things have a way of escalating beyond control rapidly when wizards are involved. WOTI just served as an unkind reminder of that, and I don't think Stefan would attempt something like that - it would extremely risky. I mean, he had the Magicians' Guild moved out of Specu.., sorry MIRROS ;) , because their experiments caused too much trouble for everyone else. So you can well imagine how much trouble competing, duelling, or even warring wizards would be... - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:16:05 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:28:04 George Hrabovsky wrote: >There is a HUGE difference between tactical skill and the ability to >lead troops in combat. > Don't know if I'd call it huge, but, yes, a difference nonetheless... On there other hand, there is also a difference between building a fire and knowning the behaviour of wild animals, yet they are both covered by the Wilderness Lore skill in 3e. It seems to me that 3e skills tend to be much more broad than in earlier versions of the game. Besides, tactical skills like Military Tactics are generally useful in large scale battles, which are rarely played in most D&D groups (though my group did when we played the Master's invasion of Darokin recently!). If such a skill is forthcoming, then I'd imagine it would be in the new mass combat/miniature rules WOTC will release for D&D some day... - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:35:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Stefan skills.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all leadership is the ability to inspire your followers (or intimidate them) into doing what you want them to do, despite their own fears. Tactics is the ability to judge an immediate confrontational situation and choose the best course to make the most out of the situation. It does not mean the ability to lead troops into battle. It is the ability to judge how to effectively use the resources you have on hand, whether that is the sword you are weilding, or a squad of soldiers, or a wizard with a Staff of Power. Operational Art is the ability to perform a massed battle. It involves the ability to direct troops on the field of battle, the ability to understand enemy intentions and options, the ability to effectively use terrain, a sense of timing and the flow of operations, and the ability to organize both combat and logistic support for the immediate battle. Strategy is the ability to fight a campaign in a theater of operations, including an entire war. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Stalker" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Stefan skills.. > On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 06:28:04 George Hrabovsky wrote: > >There is a HUGE difference between tactical skill and the ability to > >lead troops in combat. > > > > Don't know if I'd call it huge, but, yes, a difference nonetheless... > > On there other hand, there is also a difference between building a fire and knowning the behaviour of wild animals, yet they are both covered by the Wilderness Lore skill in 3e. It seems to me that 3e skills tend to be much more broad than in earlier versions of the game. > > Besides, tactical skills like Military Tactics are generally useful in large scale battles, which are rarely played in most D&D groups (though my group did when we played the Master's invasion of Darokin recently!). If such a skill is forthcoming, then I'd imagine it would be in the new mass combat/miniature rules WOTC will release for D&D some day... > > > - The Stalker > > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:47:55 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Strange times in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Jacob Skytte wrote: > > Sounds cool. Would you care to elaborate some more on your > Glantri (just for kicks, love to hear what people have done > differently)? Have you treated any other nations as > heretically :) as Glantri? Yes, I'd like to hear about it too. My ideas of Glantri were much different back in the early 80s as well, but I don't think my players ever actually got there, so I never really developed it. FWIW, my version of Glantri was of a sparsely populated land; actual towns were few and far between, the rest was a lonely monster-infested wilderness. The princes were powerful magic users (9th-14th level, since all I had was the Expert Set) who lived in isolated towers. It had a cool moist climate, rainy and foggy, and the land was thickly forested with fir trees. The culture was homogenous and probably resembled medieval France (since "Glantri" sounded french to me). Glantri was mysterious and at the very edge of the known world; there was little reason to go there, since there were few people and little trade, and wizards were not friendly toward trespassers. Some other early ideas I had: West of Darokin lay desert and more broken lands. This was long before I knew anything of Sind. I had extended the map out a bit and located a "Forgotten City" and a "Necropolis", and I thought of these lands as crawling with undead and horrible things. Being at the very edge of the world I imagined it as an eerie twilight sort of place that sane people avoided. Ylaruam was a huge desert of sand dunes and forgotten pyramids with only a single city in the center and a few scattered oases. Merchant caravans were in constant danger from gigantic sand-worms who struck suddenly from beneath. There was no shipping canal to bypass the Malpheggi swamp, which of course was heavily infested with water termites and pirates. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:22:31 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Secular humanism and Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > -----Original Message----- > From: David Knott [mailto:Kaviyd@AOL.COM] > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 11:29 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Secular humanism and Glantri > > > In a message dated 2000-08-26 11:29:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > > > Although I'm not a religious man (lapsed Catholic), > it occurs to me > > that > > Glantri is going to be a GREAT setting for a > campaign-cum-morality play > > about the consequences of ignoring the spiritual component of life. > > I'm thinking grabbing Synn, the "Mage: The > Sorcerers Crusade" > > supplement > > "Infernalism" and (no kidding) the Silver Swan Society > from the Complete > > Wizard's Handbook and tossing them into a Harry > Potter-inspired GSoM > > campaign and setting the blender on frappe. > > Sound workable? > > Absolutely! While you are at it, you could try incorporating > some references that seemed obvious at the time of publication > of Gaz 3. Think back to the Cold War and an old Avalon Hill > game called "Kremlin". Along comes Gaz 3, which describes an > officially atheistic multi-ethnic nation bound together by > an ideology not shared by less restrictive nations such as > Darokin and filled with intrigue at the highest levels of > government. Stir well, and Glantri has much in common with > the old U.S.S.R. immediately prior to its collapse. Turn up > the heat and have fun! Not to mention Rad and the NoS... Glantri sits (literally) on a secret "nuclear arsenal" of staggering power and recites nonsensical mantras to Rad, the Mystaran patron of nukes. The cold war parallels never occurred to me. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:44:42 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Gaz 13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been unable to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. Cheers Adrian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:04:47 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Gaz 13 In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:44 8/29/00 GMT, adrian mattias wrote: >Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. >I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been unable >to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. Check the downloads page at WotC. There's a page that's nothing but previous edition D&D. It's got both the player's and DM books. http://wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_prev.asp BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:25:47 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-29 3:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > I don't have gaz 1, so I could be very wrong, but IIRC Bargle was pointed out > as a notable exception to the limits on the spells known in Karameikos - he > has several that are not on Teldon's list, and I even think Teleport was one > of them... Damn, I really *will* have to find that gaz 1 now, won't I? ;) In Gaz 1 he does not have that spell in his spellbook, but it is obvious from events in the PWAs that he must have learned that spell at some point in the following decade. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:30:45 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Gaz 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. > I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been unable > to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. > Cheers > Adrian This addy should take you right there http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_prev.asp :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:09:39 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leroy Van Camp III Subject: Re: Gaz 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit adrian mattias meandered fecklessly... > Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. > I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been unable > to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads.asp Just scroll down a bit. Leroy Van Camp III malacoda@uswest.net http://www.users.uswest.net/~malacoda/TarkasBrainLabIV.html ICQ #20039817 "My hamster had five babies last week. This morning when I looked in the cage she had ate two of them little babies. What the heck. Had a couple myself." Earl, Red Meat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:52:58 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Gaz 13 In-Reply-To: <014101c01216$96f08720$c083e33f@thedeadlands> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:09 8/29/00 -0600, Leroy Van Camp III wrote: >> Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. >> I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been >unable >> to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. > >http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads.asp Nope. It's all 3E stuff now. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:55:36 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Arcane Spellcasters in Glantri MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-08-29 7:58:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > I'd be wary of allowing all classes to get Weapon specialization if I were > you- it's one of the chief abilities of the Fighter (like in 2nd Edition), > and given the amount of playtesting that's been done, seems to be a > balancing factor for them. If I did make Weapon Specialization available to non-Fighters, it would be a lot later than for Fighters -- possibly in the level 21+ range where just about anything should be possible. The problem with leaving things as they stand is that by the time a character gets four levels as a Fighter under his belt he is ready to specialize in any weapon -- and I would prefer that a character who has been a Wizard or Cleric all of his life have some reason to specialize in one of the weapons that he has been using for his entire career, not one that he just recently picked up as part of his Fighter training. As for Sorcerers learning the Secret Crafts, three of them (namely Elementalism, Illusion/Dream Magic, and Witchcraft/Wokanism) have associated special abilities that are usable by Wizards and not by Sorcerers. As for Jaggar being a Sorcerer, there are some clues pointing in that direction: He is self taught (not trained at the Great School of Magic), he is a specialist in GKoM (which suggests that he uses fewer spells than other Wizards do), he has a keen interest in military matters (which fits in well with Sorcerers having a slightly better weapon selec- tion), he has a superior charisma (good enough to give him access to 9th level spells if his level improvements are used to boost it), and the Secret Craft of Dracology has no associated powers that require a spell book. On the other hand, he seems to know a lot more high level spells than a 20th level Sorcerer could ever hope to get access to, even if the rules for very high level advancement prove to be more generous than I think they will be in that regard. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:52:25 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Gaz3/G:KoM In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000828114244.007bcc30@lby3.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:42 AM 8/28/00, Beau wrote: (The REAL bargain on eBay, IMO, are shrinkwrapped Al-Qadim materials, almost all of which were superb and are eminently adaptable to Mystara, incidentally.) Could you go into this in a bit more detail? I'd like to know what sorts of Al-Qadim materials there are and how, roughly, you'd adapt them for Mystara. I suspect others might be curious as well. Thanks, Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:31:50 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Adapting Al-Qadim for Ylaruam In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20000828215126.00bcd460@cogsci.ucsd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 21:52 8/28/00 -0700, David S. Leland wrote: >At 11:42 AM 8/28/00, Beau wrote: > >(The REAL bargain on eBay, IMO, are shrinkwrapped Al-Qadim materials, >almost all of which were superb and are eminently adaptable to >Mystara, incidentally.) > > Could you go into this in a bit more detail? I'd like to know what >sorts of Al-Qadim materials there are and how, roughly, you'd adapt >them for Mystara. I suspect others might be curious as well. You name it. I've seen the WONDERFUL Arabian Adventures book there (really, everyone who might run a game in Ylaruam or even just use a Ylari NPC needs this book), the "Land of Fate" boxed set, all the boxed supplements and modules, the reportedly lame "Reunion" module and even the computer game. Just did a search and 33 Al-Qadim products came up, including the Complete Sha'ir's Handbook. All of the supplements seem to be represented, with several of them sealed. As for conversion, drop them into Ylaruam -- "Arabian Adventures," the MC supplement, "Secrets of the Lamp," "Caravans," "Bone Cities" and "A Dozen and One Adventures" will drop in almost seamlessly, once you change the name of the cities and the language -- or, in the case of the Corsair Kingdoms or the Crowded Sea, just insert those islands off the Ylari coast. "Land of Fate" is useful to raid for supplementary materials, like monsters, magic items and so on. If nothing else, the genies ("Secrets of the Lamp" goes into copious detail here) and spells the Al-Qadim line features fit in WONDERFULLY in any Arabian Nights adventure set-up. ("The Complete Necromancer's Handbook," which features an Al-Qadim setting, is also available regularly, but is VERY expensive. Good stuff, IMO, but a bit dry. And, no, I didn't get mine off eBay.) The AD&D cosmology doesn't cause a problem, since Al-Qadim is interested in the four main elemental planes, which are the same in D&D. There's even the same prohibition against fire and necromantic magics in Al-Qadim as there is in Ylaruam. Not much work involved. Of course, that's speaking of AD&D, not D&D or 3E, both of which will take more work to adapt vis-a-vis the core books. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:57:18 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SR Johnson Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 8/29/00 3:55:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > creates a heavily fortified stronghold inside a mountain or deep in the=20 earth, > which you can obviously reach only with Teleport or similar spells, and=20 then=20 > he uses such wards to prevent entry by all but himself - I'd rather not=20 have=20 > to deal with such problems. This doesn't seem too outrageous of a stronghold. Even if it IS=20 impregnable (maybe the PC just thinks it is), there are ways around=20 even that if the foe is powerful enough. Imagine your hypothetical=20 wizard goes in his stronghold, next time he comes out, SURPRISE! it isn't to the same plane of existence he entered by! Perhaps it is=20 his own fault--maybe the wards themselves caused the effect or=20 they caught the attention of some very powerful outer planar beings. I know this wasn't your topic, the tangent crossed my mind so . . . =E2=80=94Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:12:21 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Gaz 13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:44 29/08/00 GMT, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me exactly where to find Gaz 13 (Shadow Elves) on the net. >I was under the impression that it was available but so far have been unable >to find it on Shawn's site or at WOTC. OK here's the logic for the placement on my site. Gaz 13 is about the Shadow Elf Terriotries which is nominally a part of the Known World. So you go to the geography page and then to the Known World section. In the index for the page you see that there's a link for Shadow Elf Territories. And there it is. Can someone please tell me if there is not some logic to that placement? Or if not what would be better?? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:18:46 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: thanks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" thanks to whoever out of Allister Huggins, David Caveney or Chris Henry passed onto Eric's 3E site news about stuff on the Mystara site. I've seen Allister's name around here, so thanks dude. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:59:24 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Heard Subject: Re: Adapting Al-Qadim for Ylaruam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/29/00 11:49:52 PM Central Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > You name it. I've seen the WONDERFUL Arabian Adventures book there > (really, everyone who might run a game in Ylaruam or even just use a Ylari > NPC needs this book), the "Land of Fate" boxed set, all the boxed > supplements and modules, the reportedly lame "Reunion" module and even the > computer game. > Just did a search and 33 Al-Qadim products came up, including the > Complete > Sha'ir's Handbook. All of the supplements seem to be represented, with > several of them sealed. > As for conversion, drop them into Ylaruam -- "Arabian Adventures," > the MC > supplement, "Secrets of the Lamp," "Caravans," "Bone Cities" and "A Dozen > and One Adventures" will drop in almost seamlessly, once you change the > name of the cities and the language -- or, in the case of the Corsair > Kingdoms or the Crowded Sea, just insert those islands off the Ylari coast. > "Land of Fate" is useful to raid for supplementary materials, like > monsters, magic items and so on. If nothing else, the genies ("Secrets of > the Lamp" goes into copious detail here) and spells the Al-Qadim line > features fit in WONDERFULLY in any Arabian Nights adventure set-up. ("The > Complete Necromancer's Handbook," which features an Al-Qadim setting, is > also available regularly, but is VERY expensive. Good stuff, IMO, but a bit > dry. And, no, I didn't get mine off eBay.) > The AD&D cosmology doesn't cause a problem, since Al-Qadim is > interested > in the four main elemental planes, which are the same in D&D. > There's even the same prohibition against fire and necromantic > magics in > Al-Qadim as there is in Ylaruam. > Not much work involved. Of course, that's speaking of AD&D, not D&D > or 3E, > both of which will take more work to adapt vis-a-vis the core books. Actually, having picked up a ton of Al-Quadim stuff a couple of years ago, I can report that much of the Al-Quadim material can be placed anywhere sufficiently un-northern european with a little bit of conscious ignoring of the Fate aspects of the game. The Al-Quadim game universe was wonderfully cosmopolitan. JMH | Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines | ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:57:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I don't have gaz 1, so I could be very wrong, but IIRC Bargle was pointed > out > > as a notable exception to the limits on the spells known in Karameikos - he > > has several that are not on Teldon's list, and I even think Teleport was > one > > of them... Damn, I really *will* have to find that gaz 1 now, won't I? ;) > > In Gaz 1 he does not have that spell in his spellbook, but it is obvious > from events in the PWAs that he must have learned that spell at some > point in the following decade. > Sorry thought that was implicit in what I originally wrote, if Bargle could learn a new spell Teldon and/or others can too. Probably my fault, having all the gaz and boxsets I sometimes assume others do to. ;^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:59:06 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > Sorry thought that was implicit in what I originally wrote, if Bargle >could learn a new spell Teldon and/or others can too. I make spells unavailable or available to Wizards based on language. For example if a player only knows Espan than he they will probably never learn most divinations. (Espan spellcasters dropped those spells years ago due the irregularities of Divination and the Haze/Red Curse, and those that do know them are probably old enough to still have them in Ispan.) I do not know what to do about sorcerers, I might let them have the whole range of spells I allow (although I reign in Divinations as a whole in other ways too.) Of course casting a divination on the coast gets you what you deserve. >Bwa hahahaha< Dylan R. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:32:02 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dylan Rickards" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) > > Sorry thought that was implicit in what I originally wrote, if Bargle > >could learn a new spell Teldon and/or others can too. > > I make spells unavailable or available to Wizards based on language. For > example if a player only knows Espan than he they will probably never learn > most divinations. (Espan spellcasters dropped those spells years ago due the > irregularities of Divination and the Haze/Red Curse, and those that do know > them are probably old enough to still have them in Ispan.) > Since there is a readily available proficiency, well mayby not so available in your game, that increases the veracity of divinations why would they do this? I don't know about your campaigns wizards, but those in my campaign who learn a spell originally written in another language, usually transcribe it in their own language for the ease that doing so imparts on restudying the spell each day etc. It's sort of like cutting off your nose to spite your face otherwise. ;^) > I do not know what to do about sorcerers, I might let them have the whole > range of spells I allow (although I reign in Divinations as a whole in other > ways too.) Of course casting a divination on the coast gets you what you > deserve. >Bwa hahahaha< > Usually the advantage over a foe. You cut the chances for an unsuccessful divination down and try two or three times. You don't rely on them but use them advantageously, even if the advantage is "Sorry, I'm unsure about this one. Come back tommorow when we'll try again, for the same fee of course!" Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:54:32 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > Since there is a readily available proficiency, well mayby not so >available in your game, that increases the veracity of divinations why >would >they do this? I don't know about your campaigns wizards, but those in my >campaign who learn a spell originally written in another language, usually >transcribe it in their own language for the ease that doing so imparts on >restudying the spell each day etc. It's sort of like cutting off your nose >to spite your face otherwise. ;^) > If the speel is written in a language that the characters do not know then I say with a Read Magic they can cast it from a scroll, but they can not >learn it< as they can not gain a complete grasp of the formulae and extraneous notes involved without taking some time to study it. If they do not know the orginial language then they can not scribe it in a spell book. > Usually the advantage over a foe. You cut the chances for an >unsuccessful divination down and try two or three times. You don't rely on >them but use them advantageously, even if the advantage is "Sorry, I'm >unsure about this one. Come back tommorow when we'll try again, for the >same >fee of course!" > Actually, in the Cursed lands there is a chance that information comes back wrong, and Know Alignment can only narrow an Alignment down to two options etc. So while the Verdans go out to sea to cast their divinations, the Espans have given up on many of them. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:33:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Teleportation and Espionage (was Spy networks) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > If the speel is written in a language that the characters do not know then I > say with a Read Magic they can cast it from a scroll, but they can not > >learn it< as they can not gain a complete grasp of the formulae and > extraneous notes involved without taking some time to study it. If they do > not know the orginial language then they can not scribe it in a spell book. > That's what comprehend languages, even cast multiple times for veracity, is for. As is trading the scrool to another mage in exchange for being taught the spell which you write in your OWN language. Whilst your idea may hold true for some, the intelligent and cosmopolitan will soon circumvent it.> > Actually, in the Cursed lands there is a chance that information comes back > wrong, and Know Alignment can only narrow an Alignment down to two options > etc. So while the Verdans go out to sea to cast their divinations, the > Espans have given up on many of them. > Which is why, as I said, you increase the odds of a successful divination as much as possible (by successful I mean one that gives you the CORRECT information), cast it multiple times (statistically increasing the chances of not getting a false reading overall), and still don't rely on it. BTW if you modified it to there being very few Divination specialists it would make much more sense than the blanket over divination magics. High level mages will have much greater successful divination chances so would start to use them more. Its based on a save v spells IIRC. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:53:21 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: arminath_wynter Subject: The Whole Half-ogre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Half-ogre Class Ability Score Ranges and alternate dice rolling methods*: Str: 9-18 (d10+8) Int: 7-16 (3d4+4) Wis: 7-16 (3d4+4) Dex: 3-18 (3d6) Con: 9-18 (d10+8) Cha: 3-13 (2d6+1) *The usual method of generating ability scores may be used, however, the alternate method creates a character within the acceptable ranges as well. Prime Requisite: Strength Other Requirements: Constitution of 9 or greater Experience Bonus: +5% for strength of 13 or greater; +10% for strength of 16 or greater. Hit dice: 1d8 per level with constitution adjustments up to 9th level; at 10th level and after half-ogres gain 3 hit points per level with no constitution adjustments. Maximum Level: 18th. Weapons Allowed: All Armor Allowed: All; shields allowed. Special Abilities: Base AC 9, 15' infravision, base movement is 90'(30'), use 2 handed melee weapons (not pole-arms) with one hand, can carry 1.5x more than size M and S characters, armor and gear costs 1.5x normal due to size, fighter maneuvers at 1st level, 2 attacks per round at 12th level, fighter combat options at 12th level, stronghold and followers at 9th level, 3 attacks per round at 16th level. Half-ogres are hybrids of ogre and orc, human, hobgoblin, bugbear and hill giants. The most common is the ogre-human crossbreed, since ogre males and females find humans the most attractive lot. Many ogre raids will result in the capture of a few humans in addition to material wealth. Standing slightly shorter than their full-blooded ogre relatives, half-ogres are about 7' to 8' tall and weigh in between 300 and 500 pounds. Their lanky hair is usually a light dull color to pitch black and their eyes are black iris-less orbs that can be unsettling to see. Because of the crossbreeding half-ogres tend to be brighter and quicker than their ogrish parent and many times lead ogre reading parties if they are raised among humanoids. Half-ogres raised among humans usually have a hard lot in life, mostly never fully accepted because of their mixed heritage, but they can achieve far more than others credit them. Because of their greater size, they can more effectively carry greater weights and objects and wield greater weapons more effectively. They attack and save as fighters of equal level. Higher Levels: Half-ogres reaching 9th level may become Half-ogre Lords and build a stronghold (some type of keep or fortification) and attract followers. Depending on his alignment he may have some monstrous followers that have heard of his prowess and tales of his exploits. Numbers and details are the same as for a fighter. Should the half-ogre wish to continue traveling, he becomes known as a Half-ogre Champion and may swear allegiance much as a knight. Depending on his alignment and your campaign, the Half-ogre may also become a Paladin, Avenger or Druidic Knight. At 12th level, half-ogres gain 2 attacks per round and the fighter combat options smash, parry and disarm and at 16th level they gain 3 attacks per round. Half-ogre Experience Chart Level Experience Hit Dice 1 0 1d8 2 2,200 2d8 3 4,400 3d8 4 8,800 4d8 5 17,000 5d8 6 35,000 6d8 7 70,000 7d8 8 150,000 8d8 9 300,000 9d8 10 600,000 9d8+3 11 900,000 9d8+6 12 1,200,000 9d8+9 13 1,500,000 9d8+12 14 1,800,000 9d8+15 15 2,100,000 9d8+18 16 2,400,000 9d8+21 17 2,700,000 9d8+24 18 3,000,000 9d8+27 19* 3,300,000 9d8+30 20** 3,600,000 9d8+33 *This level is only attainable by using a Wish or an Immortal Bestow spell. **This level is attainable only by using an Immortal Bestow spell. _______________________________________________ Why pay for something you could get for free? NetZero provides FREE Internet Access and Email http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:10:01 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi fellows! Okay, here's an hypothetical situation I'd like u to comment on: Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). Now, if he drops the spell after 100 years and retains his old mortal form again, would u rule he ages all the 100 years passed right away?? (remember that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and aging effects) Also, what if the PC shapechanged into lich is hit by an aging attack? Will he be affected when he changes back to normal form? (I think not, this would be plain stupid for a 9th level spell..) Thanks for the replies! ;) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:26:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:10:01 DM wrote: >Hi fellows! > >Okay, here's an hypothetical situation I'd like u to comment on: > By Mystara! Do you sit up at night dreaming up nightmare questions like this ???? ;) >Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and >stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it >three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). >Now, if he drops the spell after 100 years and retains his old mortal form >again, would u rule he ages all the 100 years passed right away?? (remember >that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, >powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and aging >effects) >Also, what if the PC shapechanged into lich is hit by an aging attack? Will >he be affected when he changes back to normal form? (I think not, this >would be plain stupid for a 9th level spell..) > Well, I guess that I would say that he is still human (or whatever his original race was). IIRC a creature never gets the advanced magical abilities of another creature, but even if Shapechange allows it, I would still rule that he's human - he can fool his body, but he can't fool reality! Reality still knows that he's human and acts accordingly. Your reasoning also assumes that he can keep casting the spell... Theoretically he could, but several times a day for years with no room for error? Not likely, I think. Another thing to consider is the magical drain that this continuous effect would have on a person's body - magic frequently is a great drain on a spellcaster, and I don't see why this should be different. Quite the contrary, in fact. One nasty effect could be that after 10 years of being a lich, the poor wizard realizes that he *IS* a lich! He cannot turn back to his 'real' form because his body has gotten so used to the new one that it has transmuted into the new form! Serves the arrogant dude right! ;) >Thanks for the replies! ;) > Sure. Anytime. Answering highly theoretical (and useless) questions on magic is what we scheming Alphatians do best, or at least most of the time, anyway :) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:21:32 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: UNdead and aging In-Reply-To: DM's message of "Thu, 31 Aug 2000 01:10:01 +0200" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii DM writes: > Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and > stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). I've got a few possible thoughts on this. First, I would rule that you can't keep a spell running by recasting it before the end of the previous instance. Spells do not combine like gasoline, they're descrete magical effects. I'd say with an existing shapechange on, trying to cast another would just fail. So, no possibility of aging 100 years at once. I'm also not sure I'd allow shapechanging into a lich. There aren't any naturally occuring lichs, each was originally an individual MU or cleric who went through a process to become a lich, and that process is usually ruled to be very personal to the lich. So I'd say that shapechanging into a lich is barred just as shapechanging into an Elemental Ruler is. But that does leave your garden variety undead, like vampires. They should clearly be immune to magical aging, but I'm not sure if they should be immune to normal aging. Why not? If someone wants to spend hundreds of years constantly shapechanging into a vampire, they should be allowed the near immortality. They're certainly paying for it, with the general hassles of being undead. And they won't be _really_ immortal, because there would be some periods of natural aging occuring between their shapechange spells. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 72 days, 13 hours, 30 minutes, 28 seconds till we run away. Above all things, reverence yourself. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 05:27:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich Well if he's actually seen one according to the rules that's OK, pity it was only a 21 HD vesion though ;^) and > stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). Shouldn't that be 5 times a day since each will have a maximum duration of 6 hours? 4 would leave a small time each day when you weren't under the effects of the spell. > Now, if he drops the spell after 100 years and retains his old mortal form > again, would u rule he ages all the 100 years passed right away?? (remember > that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, > powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and aging > effects) Problem comes when his magic is dispelled by those pesky adventurers and the shapechange, since he is within the area of the dispel, goes too. As for the not aging, well actually the player has been doing so all the time it's the seeming effect of the magic cast upon him that he has not since he is constantly imitating the same lich at the same point in time as it was observed. BTW where exactly does the immunity to aging actually appear? I run undead as ignoring the dibilitating effects of age and ageing attacks, some do increase in power with age IMC, but there is no actual immunity. > Also, what if the PC shapechanged into lich is hit by an aging attack? Will > he be affected when he changes back to normal form? (I think not, this > would be plain stupid for a 9th level spell..) I'd say it does, because, if it actually manages to hit, it's him and not the seeming of the spell that has been cast upon him that has been affected. Whilst the shapechange is in effect he will be able to ignore any disabiliting effects though, even death due to extreme old age. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:30:36 CEST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Either you ARE a Lich or you temporarily shapechange into (in a certain sense: you RESEMBLE) a Lich: I would rule that in fact you do get older, at the normal human rate, even though you can ignore the effects of old age in Lich form, as long as you are still able to cast the shapechange spell and resemble a Lich; but one day you'll just be too weak to cast the spell once more or you'll have a heart attack because of old age - I would rule that you must wait until the previous spell duration has ended if you want the next one to take effect (a problem arises here: does this also apply to "Breath Water"?). However, I also note that: 1. you can't shapechange into a Dragon Lord or a Elemental Lord, so I guess you can't do it for Lichs too - it's just too easy: if you could do it, you'd have no need for "difficult" paths such as the Craft of Necromancy. 2. if a person shapechanges into an undead, I see no problem with ignoring the effects of energy drain, cold, sleep, charme, aging, etc. also after he comes back to his previuos form: just, he needs to have received those attacks while still in undead form. 3. another possibility (that's the one I most like): you can't shapechange into any undead form at all, if you are alive: only living beings; but if you are, on the contrary, an undead MU (like a Nosferatu) then you may ONLY shapechange into undead forms and not at all into any living being! But this would probably make Nosferatu PCs too powerful: being any form of undead would allow you to obtain Lich powers at a very low price... anybody else has ideas? Federico _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:19:06 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jerry Hovenanian Organization: None Subject: Me, The Member Registry and 3rd Ed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well sorry I have been away from the net for a while. Personal stuff gets in the way of the net ... I hate it when that happens ... lol I (Finally:) updated The Member Registry on the 28th. I'll give it another update in a week or so if anyone wants to update or be added go to http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/7295/mystara/mml/addme.html and to see it go to http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/7295/mystara/mml/index.html . After the update in a week I'll again update once a month. As a 3rd note (pun indented) I just started playing in a 3rd ed campaign. WOW. Combat is so easy now. I like the rules a lot. Pick up or borrow a PH..it is worth looking at. Also I'm in the middle of DMing a 2nt ed Mystara campaign. But Mystara is the best no matter what rules you use. -- Jerry Hovenanian clumsydwarf@usa.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/7295/ ICQ# 18008809 The Force is like Duct Tape... It has a light side, a dark side and it binds the universe together _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______ http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:03:47 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DM wrote: > Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and > stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole = day). > Now, if he drops the spell after 100 years and retains his old mortal = form > again, would u rule he ages all the 100 years passed right away?? = (remember > that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, > powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and = aging > effects) I am assuming you're talking about the OD&D 9th level Magical spell = Shapechange. If not, then the limitations noted there could still apply. = It clearly states that you can't cast spells from scrolls or your spell = book while Shapechanged. I'm assuming that must mean that you can't = rememorize spells as well. That said, I would rule, contrary to others, = that his old form does not age. The character has 'become another = creature in all respects except the mind, hit points, and saving = throws'. There is no part of his body left (except his mind, perhaps he = could still go senile :) ), and I don't think that time just waits to = take it's toll on him, when his original body reappears. If we're = talking AD&D 2nd ed. (and perhaps it would be wise to borrow from that), = when casting Shape Change you use a jade circlet, which shatters at the = end of duration; the spell ends if the jade circlet is shattered by = other means. This could imply that the jade circlet takes the place of = the wizard's original body. The question then remains, if he takes over the lifespan of the chosen = shape, what age does he assume? Usually it should be up to him, but how = about when he really can't tell how old a creature is by looking at it. = Say, for example, he turns into a May fly, how long does he have left? = Btw what happens to his equipment when he uses Shapechange? Is this one = of those spells best cast in the nude? I would suggest so... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:54:24 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maybe the Dungeon Master could be generous about the shapechanging into a lich, but then he should enforce not only aging, but also ALL other bodily properties of the cute undead: that is, the character could not take his normal rations of food and drink... he would still need nourishing, but it would be the exotic nourishing a lich needs for keeping its essence, like buying larvae for the night hags, so just a year of unlife would be a lot of trouble... Also, IIRC, most of the lich's powers, like immunities and immortality, come from the magic philactery, which is individual and untransferable for each lich. Can a shapechange convey it??? It sounds as impossible as getting a gold dragon's spellbook just by shapechanging into dragon form... So, a character shapechanging into a lich would do into a philactery-less lich, and so would be direly limited and in fact would have a shorter lifespan than a mayfly, a lich without a philactery is just a fast-rotting corpse with some magic power (well, that's being generous, some DM may rule that a philactery-less lich is immediately destroyed). Assuming lich shape for a short period may be ok, but, if your player insists on taking a big umbalancing advantage, follow the liche's physyology to the letter... Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:53:09 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: erewan laubgaenger Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The question then remains, if he takes over the lifespan of the chosen shape, what age does he assume? Usually it should be up to him, but how about when he really can't tell how old a creature is by looking at it. Say, for example, he turns into a May fly, how long does he have left? Btw what happens to his equipment when he uses Shapechange? Is this one of those spells best cast in the nude? I would suggest so... 2th Ed. best i cast it in normal cloth. and thake up the items that i want to use. (the way to use protections in normal way) the items are polymoph with the caster and return, if the caster enters his normal form or duration ends. protection itmes can still function (DM choise). IBON ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:42:04 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Rickards Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hypthetically, but this depends on the game and the >player< I would actually allow the character to get away with the shape change and near immortality, IF s/he could cast the spell the 3-5 times a day necessary, and could come up with a way to produce 3-5 pieces of Jade Jewelry A DAY. I would also make it clear that some of the slack I give normal PC's would be taken away and every Paladin in the Known World would eventually be coming for him/her. Besides, if the PC is powerful enough to do it, s/he will be powerful enough to deal with all of the pissed off Immortals, Paladins, Druids, and anyone who wanted anything made of Jade (I assume it would put a bit of a hit on the Jade market). Then I would have fun creating parties of L36 LG NPCs to come get him/her. Now, if the player was not a good sport with me diliberately trying to kill the character off, then I might have issues. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:22:13 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Erik Waddell Subject: 3E Scribe Scroll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was reading the "Scribe Scroll" feat.. and I think it may be a little unbalancing... The formula for determining the cost of a scroll is: caster level x spell level x 25 gold pieces xp cost = gp cost/25 Therefore, A first level wizard making a first-level spell scroll would cost 25 gp and 1 xp. This seems a little cheap. The gold cost might be a little high for a virgin character, but after an adventure or two a 1st level mage could have enough gold to pump out 10 scrolls at a time.. i mean, say yuo get 400xp after an adventure.. spending 10xp for 10 1st level scrolls is not that much, and well worth 250 gp I'd say. Further.. if the same formula is used for 0-level spells... 1 x 0 x 25 = 0 GP cost 0 / 25 = 0 xp cost Therefore, a wizard could whip up as many 0-level scrolls as he has paper and ink, they cost nothing! This seems quite unbalanced (obviously). I was considering counting 0-level spells as 1st level for the purposes of scribing scrolls. But what do others think about the general cost formula? Is it reasonable, or too cheap a cost for making a scroll? Erik Waddell ------------------------------------------------------------------ Get free personalized email from the NHL at http://www.nhlmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:49:12 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: <0008311122138M.26229@webb2.iname.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:22 8/31/00 -0400, Erik Waddell wrote: >But what do others think about the general cost formula? >Is it reasonable, or too cheap a cost for making a scroll? Gold is going to be a lot more dear according to official D&D adventures and guidelines. Essentially, the game is moving to the silver standard. So the scrolls are more expensive than they appear to be at the moment. I imagine next month's "The Sunless Citadel" will give us a good idea of how WotC feels about handing out gold in 3E. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:47:58 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Lord Deldain Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/31/00 8:31:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, erik@CANADIENSFAN.COM writes: << But what do others think about the general cost formula? Is it reasonable, or too cheap a cost for making a scroll? >> I really don't see it being a problem. A player who wants to spent the time, gold, and xp to make tons of scroll will probably be few and far between. I do agree that the 0-level scrolls should have *some* cost. But then, most of the cantrips aren't so powerful that anyone would really waste the time making scrolls for them. - Deldain ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:07:31 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Straight Subject: 3E cleric domains and immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm starting a 3rd edition campaign set in Glantri Friday afternoon and I need a little help in finishing up my first DMPC (Dungeon Master Player Character). I have created a female cleric of Valerias but when it comes to her domains I am not sure exactly what to choose. Has anyone updated the immortals to 3E yet? Or does anyone have any ideas which spell domains I should take? James Straight ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:05:22 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:47 08/31/2000 EDT, Lord Deldain wrote: >A player who wants to spent the time, gold, and xp to make tons of scroll >will probably be few and far between. I do agree that the 0-level scrolls >should have *some* cost. But then, most of the cantrips aren't so powerful >that anyone would really waste the time making scrolls for them. 0 level spells have .5 value in creation formulas. So there are no free and instant zero level scrolls. And if anyone really wants to stock up on scrolls that let them do a single hit point of damage, let 'em. I can't imagine there's much market (or use) for such things. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:15:03 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: James Straight Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Erik Waddell To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Date: Thursday, August 31, 2000 11:34 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] 3E Scribe Scroll >But what do others think about the general cost formula? >Is it reasonable, or too cheap a cost for making a scroll? > >Erik Waddell It would actually depend on the players. If they are abusing the feat and creating tons of scrolls then it would be way too cheap. But most players IMHO would not abuse it and may create an occasional scroll for a spell they want to be sure they have handy. If this is the case then the formula is probably just right. James Straight ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:49:28 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: 3E cleric domains and immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Choice of 2 among: Trickery Chaos War (she's the Girder of Weapons, after all) ???????? Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:04:52 IDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Undead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'd handle it in one of two fashions: A)While shapechanged, you are still in your own body, though its form is altered. Therefore, a character will still age at a normal rate, though in undead form he is not affected by age; however, once the spell wears off, he will be affected by the accumelated aging. Also, I don't think the spell would enhance lifespan, so if he were to stay in lich form permanently, he would eventually drop dead, though he wouldn't have shown any previous signs of age (this also applies to shapechanging to other long-lived creatures). B)Define living and unliving as two distinct states, and disallow shapechanging from one to the other (except maybe with a polymorph any object). If you're using AD&D, note that the material component costs for staying shapechanged for any extended time will be staggering; also, I think the wizard should make a system shock roll whenever he returns to normal form and is suddenly 'hit' by the time he accumalated while in lich form. Someone mentioned a problem with the second approach above that a nosferatu could use shapechange to a lich to gain its powers. This shouldn't be a problem, because shapechanging into a lich hould only give the lich's touch attack and immunities, and possibly its monster summning abilities; it should not grant spellcasting abilities beyond those the caster already possesses, since that would be liking changing into a specific magic-user. There are several spells, of lower level than shapechange, which can give the nosferatu these powers much more easily. --Eyal _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:57:55 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Catherine Keene Subject: Immortal Quicklist (WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Below is a reference list of the Immortals from WotI. The entries are separated by a single tab, so the list can be copied into your preferred word processor and you can adjust the tabs and font for the entire document once. The first part of the list is organized by Sphere and then alphabetically. The second part is organized the same way. The first part is the "standard" list of major players in the WotI adventure, the second set are the additional immortals listed. I had to assign interests for the second set; the rest is cannon. You can alphabetize the entire list if you like, the second set is noted by "*" after the name. I'm working on other Immortal lists, which I'll also post. If there are additional immortals of works published later, email me an entry for them so I can integrate them into this list. Catherine Keene Alphatia@aol.com ________________________________________________________ Name Sphere of Power Rank Sex Alignment Interests Alphatia Energy Celestial F L Pacifism; Artistry Opposing Alphaks Benekander Energy Initiate M L Restraint of Immortal Excesses Eiryndul Energy Empyreal F C Elves; Mischief; Forest Races Ilsundal Energy Hierarch M L Protection of Elves Ixion Energy Hierarch M N Banishing Darkness; Opposing Entropy Mealiden Energy Empyreal M L Protecting Ilsundal Pflarr Energy Eternal M N Study of Magic; Creation of Races Rad Energy Empyreal M L The Radiance Rafiel Energy Empyreal M L Shadow Elves; Study of Radiation Rathanos Energy Eternal M C Energy Life Forms Razud Energy Hierarch M N Alphatians; Helping the Self-sufficient Tarastia Energy Eternal F L Justice; Revenge Thor Energy Eternal M N Warrior's Codes of Honor Zirchev Energy Celestial M N Forest Folk (Centaurs, Dryads, etc.) Loki Entropy Eternal M C Mischief; Betrayal Orcus Entropy Eternal M C Mass Destruction Alphaks Entropy Empyreal M C Destroying Alphatia Atzanteotl Entropy Hierarch M C The Process of Corruption Hel Entropy Hierarch F N Reincarnation Masauwu Entropy Eternal M C Sponsorship of New Immortals Nyx Entropy Hierarch F N Night; Darkness; Monster Races Talitha Entropy Eternal F C Self-gratification at Expense of Others Thanatos Entropy Hierarch M C End of All Life Atruaghin Matter Hierarch M L Atruaghin Clans; "New Way" Azcans Diamond Matter Celestial M L Lawful Dragons Djaea Matter Hierarch F N Survival of Worlds Faunus Matter Temporal M C Forest Races; Hedonism The Great One Matter Eternal M N All Dragons Ka Matter Hierarch M L Lizardmen; Hollow World Kagyar Matter Eternal M N Arts; Dwarves; Brute-men Opal Matter Celestial F N Neutral Dragons Pearl Matter Temporal F C Chaotic Dragons Terra Matter Hierarch F L Earth-based Creatures & Races Valerias Matter Hierarch F C Romance; Passion Asterius Thought Eternal M N Trade, Merchants, Thieves Diulanna Thought Celestial F N Willpower; Strong-Willed Heroes Frey Thought Celestial M L Intelligent Warfare; Counseling Odin Freyja Thought Celestial F L Intelligent Warfare; Finding New Candidates Halav Thought Celestial M L Warfare; Opposing Humanoids Karaash Thought Initiate M N Orcs Korotiku Thought Hierarch M C Mischief; Thinking Koryis Thought Temporal M L Peace; Prosperity Noumena Thought Hierarch M N Tactics, Games, Puzzles, Mysteries Odin Thought Hierarch M L Wise Rule; Living Life to the Fullest Al-Kalim Time Initiate M L Making the Ylari Desert Lush Calitha Starbrow Time Celestial F N Oceans; Sea-Elves Khoronus Time Hierarch M N Teaching Lessons of Time to Rulers Ordana Time Hierarch F N Protection of Forests, Forest Races Petra Time Celestial F L Fighting Clerics; Besieged Clerics Protius Time Eternal M N Seas and Oceans Vanya Time Empyreal F N War; Conquest Bartziluth* Energy Celestial M C Bugbears Bemarris* Energy Initiate M C Combat Gorm* Energy Empyreal M C Justice, Storms, and War Kyrthria* (Aphrodite) Energy Initiate F C Passion; Love Madarua* Energy Empyreal F L Women Warriors Mahmatti Running Elk* Energy Celestial M L Patron of the Elk Clan Marwdyn the Hanged Man* Energy Temporal M C Necromancy Minroth* Energy Celestial M N Patron of Minrothad Palartarkan* Energy Temporal M N Wizards Patura* (Hera) Energy Initiate F C Downtrodden Women The Shining One* Energy Temporal M C Kobolds Slizzard the Lurker* Energy Celestial M C Korpru Tahkati Stormtamer* Energy Celestial M N Patron of the Horse Clan Usamigaras* Energy Empyreal M N Healing; Messengers; Thieves Arik* Entropy Celestial M C Evil (currently imprisoned) Bagni Gullymaw* Entropy Celestial M C Trolls Brissard* Entropy Temporal M C Negotiator for the Entropic Immortals Danel Tigerstripes* Entropy Celestial M C Patron of the Tiger Clan; Serving Atzanteotl Demogorgon* Entropy Eternal M C Destruction Jammudaru* Entropy Initiate M C Revenge Leptar* Entropy Celestial M C Bullying Ranivorus* Entropy Celestial M C Corruption; Gnolls Saasskas the Destroyer* Entropy Celestial F N Devilfish; Destruction of Undersea Races Yagrai* Entropy Temporal M N Vengeance; Indomitable Will Chiron* Matter Initiate M L Centaurs Crakkak of the Sharp Tooth* Matter Temporal M C Shark-kin Forsetta* Matter Temporal M L Obedience Garl Glittergold* Matter Temporal M C Gnomes; devices; Craftsmanship Gorrziok the Wave Lord* Matter Empyreal M L Giants Hattani Stoneclaw* Matter Celestial M N Patron of the Bear Clan Lokena* (Athena) Matter Initiate F L Combat Maat* Matter Eternal F L Patroness of Multi-Talented Characters Malafor the Dolphin-Friend* Matter Celestial M N Merrows and Dolphins Polunius the Designer* Matter Eternal M N Tritons The Twelve Watchers* Matter Initiate M N Craftsmen Wayland* Matter Empyreal M N Artisan of Pandius Wogar the Wolf Lord* Matter Initiate M N Goblins; Cunning Ahmanni Turtlerider* Thought Celestial F L Atruagin's Lover; Patron of the Turtle Clan Cretia* Thought Celestial M C Trickster Harrow* Thought Temporal M C ?? Palson* (Apollo) Thought Initiate M L Military Advisor to Other Immortals Sinbad* Thought Celestial M C Adventuring for Fame and Glory Ssu-Ma* Thought Empyreal M L Literacy and Scholarship Tiresias* Thought Initiate M N Performing Bards Turmis* (Hermes) Thought Initiate M N Cleverness; Thieves Chardastes* Time Celestial M N Healing and Medicine Kallala of the Seven Veils* Time Celestial F N Nixies Liena* Time Initiate F L Patron of Norwold Sharpcrest the Squid Slayer* Time Celestial M N The Kna Race Taroyas* (Zeus) Time Initiate M N Kingship Verthandi* Time Hierarch M N Time Travel Yav* Time Celestial M N Patron of the Yavdlom Divinarchy ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:12:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Erik Waddell wrote: > Further.. if the same formula is used for 0-level spells... > > 1 x 0 x 25 = 0 GP cost > 0 / 25 = 0 xp cost > > Therefore, a wizard could whip up as many 0-level scrolls as > he has paper and ink, they cost nothing! This seems quite > unbalanced (obviously). I was considering counting 0-level > spells as 1st level for the purposes of scribing scrolls. Official word from WOTC is that cantrips count as 1/2 level spells when figuring costs. So a cantrip scroll costs 12.5 gp and 12 XP for a 1st level wizard, or 250 gp and 12 XP for a 20th level wizard. (Obviously, 20th level wizards' time is far too valuable to waste on cantrips) I'm not too sure about XP costs though. 1 XP for a 1st level spell doesn't seem too bad, but after a while spending XP on spells is going to add up. Has anyone else noticed that only wizards and sorcerers have to permamently spend XP to do certain things? 3e is supposed to ensure that everyone advances at the same rate and the party stays balanced, but a wizard who makes magic items or casts certain spells will quickly fall behind. I suppose the answer is "PCs should not be making magic items" but it seems like that should be an option. One house rule I am going to seriously consider is that when a wizard makes a magic item on consignment, the person who hired them pays the XP, not the wizard. This spreads the XP costs out and keeps things more even. (XP might also be found as treasure; for example a meteorite might have 500 XP locked inside, usable only for fire magics.) > But what do others think about the general cost formula? > Is it reasonable, or too cheap a cost for making a scroll? 25 gp is a lot of money in 3e. Seems reasonable to me. 250 gp for 10 scrolls is probably the entire net worth for a 2nd level character, and not something you'd spend lightly. Mike ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:39 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Paul George Dooley wrote: > Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and > stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). << Shouldn't that be 5 times a day since each will have a maximum duration of 6 hours? 4 would leave a small time each day when you weren't under the effects of the spell.>> Yep, my mistake. But a 36th level wizard can still cast 9 9th lvl spells, so no worry for this.. > that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, > powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and aging > effects) << Problem comes when his magic is dispelled by those pesky adventurers and the shapechange, since he is within the area of the dispel, goes too. As for>> Well, first thing, it's a bit difficult to dispel a 36th level mage enchantment, but even if they do, suppose he's already lived for 100 years like this.. <> Sorry, I didn't get this one... do u mean he's aged nonetheless, but the outside appearance of the lich is the same?? << BTW where exactly does the immunity to aging actually appear? I run undead as ignoring the dibilitating effects of age and ageing attacks, some do increase in power with age IMC, but there is no actual immunity.>> Indeed, there is! Undead have no biological functions, they rely solely on negative energy, and thus they do not age, they do not decay with time (especially the greater undead like vampires, mummies, ghosts and liches). Same reason why they can't choke: they do not breathe, so suffocating them is pointless. > Also, what if the PC shapechanged into lich is hit by an aging attack? Will > he be affected when he changes back to normal form? (I think not, this > would be plain stupid for a 9th level spell..) << I'd say it does, because, if it actually manages to hit, it's him and not the seeming of the spell that has been cast upon him that has been affected. Whilst the shapechange is in effect he will be able to ignore any disabiliting effects though, even death due to extreme old age.>> Heck man! With this you're telling me that if you shapechange (remember, 9th level spell! Not the mean polymorph self!) into a creature that's immune to normal weapons (say a lycanthrope) and get hit by normal weapons, you don't suffer wounds as long as u remain shapechanged, but the damage befalls u once u turn to your original form!?? That's just nonsense! Even with polymorph self u could become a fire salamander and ignore the effects of normal fire (you don't get burned once u turn back human by the fire you have bypassed!!).... Sorry, I cannot but disagree with this point.. it would just not be a 9th level spell! DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:45 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan Shutko wrote: > Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and > stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole day). <> Well, this means u cannot cast another Fly spell before the previous one disappears? And also that you cannot cast another Haste, or Protection spell, or stack Mirror Images and Magic Missiles or Delayed Blast Fireballs.. is it so? But even assuming this is correct, then he'd just age five rounds each day (the time needed to cast another Shapechange before reverting to the magical form).. is that enough to age like a whole day has passed?? <> mmmh... interesting thought.. but then, this could be said of all forms of undead: all of them have been something else before turning undead! OR, I could quote the example of the Isle of Night to say: Yes, there are places where undead are natural forms (and they even AGE normally there, see M5!).. interesting idea nonetheless... :) <> again, following your reasoning above, we could say nobody could Shapechange nor polymorph into ANY kind of undead, since there are no natural occurring undead: each one's the byproduct of magic, and turns a being into something else... DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:31 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The Stalker wrote: <> Well... what would u say if I told u this actually happened IMC?? ;p <> So, what would be the difference between Polymorph self (4th level spell) and Shapechange (9th level spell) then?? << Your reasoning also assumes that he can keep casting the spell... Theoretically he could, but several times a day for years with no room for error? Not likely, I think.>> Error? Why, no! Where do u get he could miscast the spell? A 36th level Mage with 18 points of Intelligence... don't think so. :) << Another thing to consider is the magical drain that this continuous effect would have on a person's body - magic frequently is a great drain on a spellcaster, and I don't see why this should be different. Quite the contrary, in fact.>> And this means (in game terms)? D&D doesn't contemplate magical draining because of spellcasting.. <> Do u think this is a bane?? Having the powers of the King of Undead is not a bane, it's a boon! That's why so many wizards try and so few succeeds! :) Actually, the wizard WANTED to become a Lich because he knew the powers associated with that form. He wasted 300,000 gp in magical researches to produce a suitable phylactery and the turning potion.. and FAILED to produce the right potion! He's been turned into a vampire now, but still a Lich is mightier than a vampire in many ways! :) Anyway, thanks for the answers. :) DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:24:42 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Gault Subject: Re: 3E cleric domains and immortals In-Reply-To: <000901c0136d$ff5075c0$0100a8c0@server> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT James Straight wrote: > I'm starting a 3rd edition campaign > Character). I have created a female cleric of Valerias but when it comes to > her domains I am not sure exactly what to choose. Has anyone updated the > immortals to 3E yet? Or does anyone have any ideas which spell domains I > should take? There are no shortages of Immortals who could possibly take the Trickery domain, so I would be wary of giving it to Valerias as well. Going from the information I can glean off of the net (no WotI) Valerias would be Chaotic Good. Thus probably she should provide access to Chaos and Good. She does seem a little violent, but should she really have War? I'd give her one or two of the following, in addition to the alignment domains: Protection (to protect one's love), Healing (to heal love), Earth (because she's in the sphere of matter). Really, if you stick to the alignment of the immortal and the elemental related to their sphere, you usually have three domains to choose from already. Of course, there's no help for the neutral immortals. What the heck, I'll post what I wrote up for the immortals: al-Kalim Water, Animal, War, Law Alphaks Chaos, Evil, Magic, Destruction Aphatia Law, Good, Magic, Fire Asterius Good, Trickery, Travel, Air Atruaghin Law, Earth, War, Protection Atzanteotl Law, Evil, Death, Destruction Benekander Good, Sun, Fire, Knowledge Calitha Starbrow Water, Plant, Travel Demogorgon Chaos, Evil, Air, Water Diamond Law, Strength, Earth, Magic Diulanna Good, Plant, Animal, Air Djaea Good, Earth, Animal, Plant Eiryndul Chaos, Good, Fire, Trickery Faunus Chaos, Earth, Plant, Trickery Frey and Freja Law, Good, Air, War Garl Glittergold Chaos, Good, Earth, Trickery The Great One Strength, Earth, Travel, Magic Halav Law, Good, Protection, War Hel Evil, Death, Healing, Destruction Ilsundal Law. Good, Fire, Plant Ixion Chaos, Good, Fire, Sun Ka Law, Good, Earth, Animal Kagyar Good, Earth, Protection, War Karaash Evil, Air, War, Strength Khronous Water, Knowledge, Protection?, Destruction? Korotiku Chaos, Trickery, Air, Knowledge Koryis Air, Law, Good, Protection Loki Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Trickery Masauwu Law, Evil, Destruction, Trickery Mealiden Starwatcher Chaos, Good, Fire, Protection Noumena Air, Trickery, Knowledge Nyx Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Death Odin Law, Stength, Knowledge, Protection Opal Earth, Magic, Strength, Sun Orcus Chaos, Destruction, Death, Strength Ordanna Water, Good, Plant, Animal Pearl Chaos, Earth, Strength, Magic Petra Air, Law, Protection, Healing Pflarr Fire, Magic, Protection, Knowledge Protius Water, Knowledge, Destruction, Protection Rad Law, Magic, Knowledge, Fire Rafiel Law, Magic, Protection, Fire Rathanos Chaos, Good, Fire, Sun Razud Fire, Knowledge, Protection, Strength Talithia Chaos, Destruction, Trickery Tarasitia Law, Good, Fire, War Terra Law, Good, Earth, Healing Thanatos Chaos, Evil, Destruction, Death Thor Fire, War, Strength, Air Tiamat Law, Evil, Destruction, Strength Valerias Chaos, Good, Earth, Healing Vanya War, Water, Strength, Destruction Zirchev Plant, Animal, Fire, Knowledge Dylan Gareth: Healing? Protection? Good? Evil? Certainly Chaos. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:48:40 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Gault Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC62A@orsmsx35.jf.intel.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Michael Harvey wrote: > Has anyone else noticed that only wizards and sorcerers have to permamently > spend XP to do certain things? 3e is supposed to ensure that everyone > advances at the same rate and the party stays balanced, but a wizard who > makes magic items or casts certain spells will quickly fall behind. I > suppose the answer is "PCs should not be making magic items" but it seems > like that should be an option. Paladins, Clerics Rangers, Bards, Druids and (if I left any out) any other spellcasters can learn the Item Creation Feats. In fact, only a paladin can make an Holy Avenger weapon. If the Wizard in the party is making magic items, and falling behind in XP, he or she still can't be worse off than the old Magic-User XP table. (Note: that was a joke.) Item creation is a double XP whammy: first it takes XP from the creator, then it takes XP from the entire group when new encounters become less challenging. I should mention that in the one 3E session I ran that gave some down time, the Wizard (well, Barbarian/Wizard) wrote one scroll, a 1st level casting of a 1st level spell. He never used the scroll. >One house rule I am going to seriously > consider is that when a wizard makes a magic item on consignment, the person > who hired them pays the XP, not the wizard. This spreads the XP costs out > and keeps things more even. Yes, but the personal cost that wizards incur explains their reluctance to cast wishes left and right. And the rarity of incredibly powerful magics in the hands of states. >(XP might also be found as treasure; for example > a meteorite might have 500 XP locked inside, usable only for fire magics.) Good idea. Special materials could cut down the XP cost for certain items. How about the Radiance? Could a spellcaster learn to harness it to pay the XP cost for item creation and spells? Or maybe the Shadow Elves new toy provided by Rafiel? Hmmmmm..... Dylan 5000 xp and 1 reality short of that wish spell ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:34:37 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Harvey, Michael" Subject: Re: Immortal Quicklist (WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The list did not contain any tabs. Is it my mailer, or did it get converted wrong or something? Any chance you could mail me a tabbed copy as an attachment or something? Thanks for the great list, BTW. :-) Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Catherine Keene [mailto:Ardelphia@AOL.COM] > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 12:58 PM > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Subject: [MYSTARA] Immortal Quicklist (WotI) > > > Below is a reference list of the Immortals from WotI. The entries are > separated by a single tab, so the list can be copied into > your preferred word > processor and you can adjust the tabs and font for the entire > document once. > > The first part of the list is organized by Sphere and then > alphabetically. > The second part is organized the same way. The first part is > the "standard" > list of major players in the WotI adventure, the second set are the > additional immortals listed. I had to assign interests for > the second set; > the rest is cannon. You can alphabetize the entire list if > you like, the > second set is noted by "*" after the name. > > I'm working on other Immortal lists, which I'll also post. > If there are > additional immortals of works published later, email me an > entry for them so > I can integrate them into this list. > > Catherine Keene > Alphatia@aol.com > ________________________________________________________ > > Name Sphere of Power Rank Sex Alignment Interests > Alphatia Energy Celestial F L Pacifism; Artistry > Opposing Alphaks > Benekander Energy Initiate M L Restraint of Immortal Excesses > Eiryndul Energy Empyreal F C Elves; Mischief; Forest Races > Ilsundal Energy Hierarch M L Protection of Elves > Ixion Energy Hierarch M N Banishing Darkness; > Opposing Entropy > Mealiden Energy Empyreal M L Protecting Ilsundal > Pflarr Energy Eternal M N Study of Magic; Creation of Races > Rad Energy Empyreal M L The Radiance > Rafiel Energy Empyreal M L Shadow Elves; Study of Radiation > Rathanos Energy Eternal M C Energy Life Forms > Razud Energy Hierarch M N Alphatians; Helping the > Self-sufficient > Tarastia Energy Eternal F L Justice; Revenge > Thor Energy Eternal M N Warrior's Codes of Honor > Zirchev Energy Celestial M N Forest Folk (Centaurs, > Dryads, etc.) > Loki Entropy Eternal M C Mischief; Betrayal > Orcus Entropy Eternal M C Mass Destruction > Alphaks Entropy Empyreal M C Destroying Alphatia > Atzanteotl Entropy Hierarch M C The Process of Corruption > Hel Entropy Hierarch F N Reincarnation > Masauwu Entropy Eternal M C Sponsorship of New Immortals > Nyx Entropy Hierarch F N Night; Darkness; Monster Races > Talitha Entropy Eternal F C Self-gratification at Expense > of Others > Thanatos Entropy Hierarch M C End of All Life > Atruaghin Matter Hierarch M L Atruaghin Clans; "New > Way" Azcans > Diamond Matter Celestial M L Lawful Dragons > Djaea Matter Hierarch F N Survival of Worlds > Faunus Matter Temporal M C Forest Races; Hedonism > The Great One Matter Eternal M N All Dragons > Ka Matter Hierarch M L Lizardmen; Hollow World > Kagyar Matter Eternal M N Arts; Dwarves; Brute-men > Opal Matter Celestial F N Neutral Dragons > Pearl Matter Temporal F C Chaotic Dragons > Terra Matter Hierarch F L Earth-based Creatures & Races > Valerias Matter Hierarch F C Romance; Passion > Asterius Thought Eternal M N Trade, Merchants, Thieves > Diulanna Thought Celestial F N Willpower; > Strong-Willed Heroes > Frey Thought Celestial M L Intelligent Warfare; > Counseling Odin > Freyja Thought Celestial F L Intelligent Warfare; Finding New > Candidates > Halav Thought Celestial M L Warfare; Opposing Humanoids > Karaash Thought Initiate M N Orcs > Korotiku Thought Hierarch M C Mischief; Thinking > Koryis Thought Temporal M L Peace; Prosperity > Noumena Thought Hierarch M N Tactics, Games, Puzzles, Mysteries > Odin Thought Hierarch M L Wise Rule; Living Life to > the Fullest > Al-Kalim Time Initiate M L Making the Ylari Desert Lush > Calitha Starbrow Time Celestial F N Oceans; Sea-Elves > Khoronus Time Hierarch M N Teaching Lessons of > Time to Rulers > Ordana Time Hierarch F N Protection of Forests, > Forest Races > Petra Time Celestial F L Fighting Clerics; Besieged Clerics > Protius Time Eternal M N Seas and Oceans > Vanya Time Empyreal F N War; Conquest > > Bartziluth* Energy Celestial M C Bugbears > Bemarris* Energy Initiate M C Combat > Gorm* Energy Empyreal M C Justice, Storms, and War > Kyrthria* (Aphrodite) Energy Initiate F C Passion; Love > Madarua* Energy Empyreal F L Women Warriors > Mahmatti Running Elk* Energy Celestial M L Patron of > the Elk Clan > Marwdyn the Hanged Man* Energy Temporal M C Necromancy > Minroth* Energy Celestial M N Patron of Minrothad > Palartarkan* Energy Temporal M N Wizards > Patura* (Hera) Energy Initiate F C Downtrodden Women > The Shining One* Energy Temporal M C Kobolds > Slizzard the Lurker* Energy Celestial M C Korpru > Tahkati Stormtamer* Energy Celestial M N Patron of the > Horse Clan > Usamigaras* Energy Empyreal M N Healing; Messengers; Thieves > Arik* Entropy Celestial M C Evil (currently imprisoned) > Bagni Gullymaw* Entropy Celestial M C Trolls > Brissard* Entropy Temporal M C Negotiator for the > Entropic Immortals > Danel Tigerstripes* Entropy Celestial M C Patron of the > Tiger Clan; > Serving Atzanteotl > Demogorgon* Entropy Eternal M C Destruction > Jammudaru* Entropy Initiate M C Revenge > Leptar* Entropy Celestial M C Bullying > Ranivorus* Entropy Celestial M C Corruption; Gnolls > Saasskas the Destroyer* Entropy Celestial F N > Devilfish; Destruction of > Undersea Races > Yagrai* Entropy Temporal M N Vengeance; Indomitable Will > Chiron* Matter Initiate M L Centaurs > Crakkak of the Sharp Tooth* Matter Temporal M C Shark-kin > Forsetta* Matter Temporal M L Obedience > Garl Glittergold* Matter Temporal M C Gnomes; > devices; Craftsmanship > Gorrziok the Wave Lord* Matter Empyreal M L Giants > Hattani Stoneclaw* Matter Celestial M N Patron of the > Bear Clan > Lokena* (Athena) Matter Initiate F L Combat > Maat* Matter Eternal F L Patroness of Multi-Talented Characters > Malafor the Dolphin-Friend* Matter Celestial M N > Merrows and Dolphins > Polunius the Designer* Matter Eternal M N Tritons > The Twelve Watchers* Matter Initiate M N Craftsmen > Wayland* Matter Empyreal M N Artisan of Pandius > Wogar the Wolf Lord* Matter Initiate M N Goblins; Cunning > Ahmanni Turtlerider* Thought Celestial F L > Atruagin's Lover; Patron > of the Turtle Clan > Cretia* Thought Celestial M C Trickster > Harrow* Thought Temporal M C ?? > Palson* (Apollo) Thought Initiate M L Military > Advisor to Other > Immortals > Sinbad* Thought Celestial M C Adventuring for Fame and Glory > Ssu-Ma* Thought Empyreal M L Literacy and Scholarship > Tiresias* Thought Initiate M N Performing Bards > Turmis* (Hermes) Thought Initiate M N Cleverness; Thieves > Chardastes* Time Celestial M N Healing and Medicine > Kallala of the Seven Veils* Time Celestial F N Nixies > Liena* Time Initiate F L Patron of Norwold > Sharpcrest the Squid Slayer* Time Celestial M N > The Kna Race > Taroyas* (Zeus) Time Initiate M N Kingship > Verthandi* Time Hierarch M N Time Travel > Yav* Time Celestial M N Patron of the Yavdlom Divinarchy > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:45:11 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: 3E cleric domains and immortals Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thats a great start Dylan. Where (besides Starflung) are there sites with work ups on immortals, OD&D speciality priests, pantheons, etc? BoBoII PS: Check out the great work being done by my Webmaster, John, for our Phoenyx game based on the X series. www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6239 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:37:52 EDT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Catherine Keene Subject: Re: Immortal Quicklist (WotI) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 8/31/00 4:46:28 PM Central Daylight Time, michael.harvey@INTEL.COM writes: << The list did not contain any tabs. Is it my mailer, or did it get converted wrong or something? >> It's probably a problem with the way that mail travels through various servers. Hopefully, it works for most people. I've sent the list to Michael in RTF. If anyone else wants it sent as an attachment in this form, email me privately, please. Catherine Keene Ardelphia@aol.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:58:04 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: UNdead and aging In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:26 AM 8/31/00 +0100, you wrote: > >One nasty effect could be that after 10 years of being a lich, the poor wizard >realizes that he *IS* a lich! He cannot turn back to his 'real' form because his >body has gotten so used to the new one that it has transmuted into the new form! >Serves the arrogant dude right! ;) This is definitely along my lines of thinking. The Lich gets many of its most salient powers (undead nature, chill touch, fear, etc.) from its connection to the Sphere of Entropy. If one were to Shapechange into an undead form of any sort, and maintain it for such a lengthy period, I'd definitely be in favor of ruling that the Sphere of Entropy has reached its chilling powers out and altered the person's body in some fashion... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:55:59 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Pantheism and Clerics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Greetings fellow Mystarans, Thanks to all those who commented on my questions about clerics and clerical magic. The very interesting arguments regarding specialization versus pantheistic worship by Mystaran clerics have got me thinking, and I wanted to re-present the issue and positions in the hope that more people will offer their thoughts. The question is this: In religions that focus on a set of Immortals and not just one, should clerics worship one Immortal, the whole set in question, or should some clerics do each? That's the short version. Let me expand on and clarify the question with my thoughts. First of all, I want to be clear that question regards clerics, and not lay followers. It is easy to conceive of a religion in which clerics worship one of a set of Immortals, and as a group of specialty clerics collectively serve as the spiritual liasons of the whole set, while most followers could worship them all equally, or with certain favorites. Some may really consider one Immortal to be their patron, but still, this doesn't pose much of a difficulty since we don't have to deal with special abilities for those followers. Regarding clerics in particular, it seems reasonable that those of a pantheistic religion should pay respects to and worship all the Immortals in their religion, as lay followers might, and I'm in fact assuming that, but the question is whether one Immortal should be the patron Immortal of the cleric, even if he/she worships the others to some extent. From a game mechanics perspective, this question of specialization is important if you're using OD&D WotI cleric abilities, 3e domains, or anything similar. For instance, in ancient Greek religion, there were priestesses of Apollo at Delphi who devoted their lives to the worship of Apollo and derived certain powers (prophecy) from that worship. Sure they would respect and probably make prayers to Zeus, Hera, and the whole gang, but their patron god was Apollo, and it is their primary worship of him that determined what power they got. If some or all clerics worship panthestically, what happens to special abilities and/or spell domains? Clearly they can't just take all of them from all the Immortals in the set. On the other hand, if they are made to pick one package of perks available from the set of Immortals, that seems like defacto specialization and makes it hard to cast the cleric as a generalist with his/her religion. Should there be a specific package associated with being a generalist within the religion? Somehow that seems awkward if not impossible to handle well. Let's assume for the moment that religions tend to have both generalists and specialists. So a cleric of the Church of Traladara might worship Halav, or Petra, or Zirchev, or all three via the more general allegience to the church and its precepts (my apologies to those who have expanded the pantheon--I just haven't bothered and am just working with the GAZ1 and other canon defaults for now). Those precepts are important, by the way, because in some cases they don't come automatically with our associations with the individual Immortals in the religions, or even with the sum total of them. The Church of Karameikos, in particular, seems like a religion with aspects (e.g. sin and absolvement) that are not based on the ethos of any of its constituent Immortals (whoever they are) in particular. It's almost like a philosophy. Ok, back to having both generalists and specialists--if we have both, it would make sense that many acolytes would begin and generalists in the religion, and as they progress in their clerical career, they might choose to become specialists. The reverse seems far less likely since it might anger the patron Immortal. The question there, then, is what abilities does the cleric get when a generalist, and how do abilites and/or domains change when he/she becomes a specialist? Does the cleric potentially give up access to certain spells that don't seem to fit in with the patron's particular ethos, in exchange for access to those specialty spells? What roles would generalists vs. specialists have? Would wandering clerics (esp. PC clerics) tend to be generalists, while those working at temples be specialists? Perhaps that depends on the religion. For instance, in the Northern Reaches, there might be shrines and holy places dedicated to particular Immortals in the pantheon, and clerics manning those cites all specialists. Itinerant godar (wandering clerics) might also all be specialists, as the GAZ seems to suggest, or could be generalists since their duties don't tie them to a spot consecrated to one Immortal. By contrast, my impression of the Church of Traladara is that most if not all of the holy places and churches are devoted to the trinity of Halav, Petra, and Zirchev, with few or no shrines dedicated to each alone. In those cases it seems that generalist clerics might be the rule and specialists the exception. If not, does anyone get upset about the patriarch of a particular church, region (or the whole religion) having such-and-such as his/her patron Immortal and not some other? Would it be difficult to find a non-Halav-specializing cleric as the High Patriarch of the Church of Traladara, since Halav is the head of the pantheon? Might it be rare to find a cleric of Zirchev as a patriarch anywhere except in rural parts, since he's lowest of the three? Would generalists jockeying for position in the theocratic heirarchy be frowned upon as wafflers who can't decide which Immortal they really serve? Would specialists in the same situation be seen as too narrowly focued to serve the needs of followers, who tend to worship all three? Ah, the sweet confusion. What do you all think? Magus Coeruleus dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:09:54 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: <0008311122138M.26229@webb2.iname.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:22 AM 8/31/00 -0400, you wrote: > >Therefore, A first level wizard making a first-level spell scroll would cost 25 >gp and 1 xp. This seems a little cheap. The gold cost might be a little high for >a virgin character, but after an adventure or two a 1st level mage could have >enough gold to pump out 10 scrolls at a time.. i mean, say yuo get 400xp after an >adventure.. spending 10xp for 10 1st level scrolls is not that much, and well >worth 250 gp I'd say. True, but he can only get 1st level spells, and each of those takes a round to cast, so all he's really buying himself is some additional usefulness in combat. Bear in mind that it will take him at least one day per scroll as well, so while he's spending a week and a half writing, his adventuring buddies can be out earning more gold and experience points. >Further.. if the same formula is used for 0-level spells... > >1 x 0 x 25 = 0 GP cost >0 / 25 = 0 xp cost > >Therefore, a wizard could whip up as many 0-level scrolls as he has paper and >ink, they cost nothing! This seems quite unbalanced (obviously). I was >considering counting 0-level spells as 1st level for the purposes of scribing >scrolls. Actually, it isn't expressed in the PH (probably in the DMG), but I believe 0 level effects cost 1/2 and not 0 (look at the Wand of Detect Magic in the bonus pages- it costs 375 gp, as opposed to the 750 for a Wand of Magic Missiles- a 1st level spell). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: 3E cleric domains and immortals In-Reply-To: <000901c0136d$ff5075c0$0100a8c0@server> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:07 PM 8/31/00 -0400, you wrote: >I'm starting a 3rd edition campaign set in Glantri Friday afternoon and I >need a little help in finishing up my first DMPC (Dungeon Master Player >Character). I have created a female cleric of Valerias but when it comes to >her domains I am not sure exactly what to choose. Has anyone updated the >immortals to 3E yet? Or does anyone have any ideas which spell domains I >should take? For Valerias, I'd suggest War, Love (a new domain- probably make the domain spells consist primarily of enchantments- Charm Person, etc.), and... um, I dunno. Chaos, maybe? Reflecting her passionate and fickle nature. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:19:19 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: <4148FEAAD879D311AC5700A0C969E8907BC62A@orsmsx35.jf.intel.c om> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:12 PM 8/31/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Has anyone else noticed that only wizards and sorcerers have to permamently >spend XP to do certain things? Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers (heck, any spellcaster) would also have to expend XP in order to create scrolls or other magical items. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:38:28 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Shutko Subject: Re: 3E Scribe Scroll In-Reply-To: "Harvey, Michael"'s message of "Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:12:54 -0700" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Harvey, Michael" writes: > I'm not too sure about XP costs though. Me either. It seems like a big jump to go from getting XP for creating magic items (which makes sense to me) to lose it. While I can see value in the rule for limiting magic item creation, I don't know if I believe in the need. You can also limit magic item creation simply by making it difficult, as in the Glantri rules. -- Alan Shutko - In a variety of flavors! 71 days, 16 hours, 33 seconds till we run away. You will gain money by an illegal action. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:18:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:31 DM wrote: > The Stalker wrote: > ><this ???? ;)>> > >Well... what would u say if I told u this actually happened IMC?? ;p > I'd say that you have my sympathies... :) ><original race was). IIRC a creature never gets the advanced magical >abilities of another creature, but even if Shapechange allows it, I would >still rule that he's human - he can fool his body, but he can't fool >reality! Reality still knows that he's human and acts accordingly.>> > >So, what would be the difference between Polymorph self (4th level spell) >and Shapechange (9th level spell) then?? > Polymorph self doesn't allow any magical or special abilities. Shapechange does. ><< Your reasoning also assumes that he can keep casting the spell... >Theoretically he could, but several times a day for years with no room for >error? Not likely, I think.>> > >Error? Why, no! Where do u get he could miscast the spell? A 36th level >Mage with 18 points of Intelligence... don't think so. :) > But casting that spell *every* day for hundreds of years with no margin for error at all? ><< Another thing to consider is the magical drain that this continuous >effect would have on a person's body - magic frequently is a great drain on >a spellcaster, and I don't see why this should be different. Quite the >contrary, in fact.>> > >And this means (in game terms)? D&D doesn't contemplate magical draining >because of spellcasting.. > That would up to the DM, or just DM in your case :) , but when a spell is being abused, which I certainly think is the case here - Shapechange was never meant to be used like this, then it's time to consider the side-effects that weren't described. ><wizard realizes that he *IS* a lich! He cannot turn back to his 'real' form >because his body has gotten so used to the new one that it has transmuted >into the new form! Serves the arrogant dude right! ;)>> > >Do u think this is a bane?? Having the powers of the King of Undead is not >a bane, it's a boon! That's why so many wizards try and so few succeeds! :) > I'm not sure if we're playing the same game, but I'm using 2e rules, and as a DM I recently used a lich against the PCs and discovered that they don't really have that many special powers. They can escape death using the phylactery and are immune to non-magical weapons, yes, but those are not highly special abilities IMHO. A demi-lich on the other hand - AWESOME >Actually, the wizard WANTED to become a Lich because he knew the powers >associated with that form. He wasted 300,000 gp in magical researches to >produce a suitable phylactery and the turning potion.. and FAILED to >produce the right potion! He's been turned into a vampire now, but still a >Lich is mightier than a vampire in many ways! :) > >Anyway, thanks for the answers. :) > > >DM >Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac >First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > >"You don't stop playing because you grow old: >you grow old because you stop playing!" > >Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > >And Mystara Italian Homepage at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 > >Join the Mystara Webring at: >http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > >Join the Starfleet Academy at: >http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:21:02 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: UNdead and aging Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:39 DM wrote: > Paul George Dooley wrote: > >> Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and >> stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it >> three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole >day). > ><< Shouldn't that be 5 times a day since each will have a maximum duration >of 6 hours? 4 would leave a small time each day when you weren't under the >effects of the spell.>> > >Yep, my mistake. But a 36th level wizard can still cast 9 9th lvl spells, >so no worry for this.. > Maximum duration of 6 hours? IIRC he still needs to sleep for 8 to recover his spells, i.e., Problem! :) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:25:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: 3E Wizards xp (was: Scribe Scroll) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:38:28 Alan Shutko wrote: >"Harvey, Michael" writes: > >> I'm not too sure about XP costs though. > >Me either. It seems like a big jump to go from getting XP for >creating magic items (which makes sense to me) to lose it. While I >can see value in the rule for limiting magic item creation, I don't >know if I believe in the need. You can also limit magic item creation >simply by making it difficult, as in the Glantri rules. > I agree. There is also another problem with the new approach. In older versions of the game we were told that adventuring wizards were rare because most spend their lives on research and the PCs play those who could not afford that (that's pretty much what the 2e rules tell me, anyway), so naturally this begs the question of how all those other wizards can do their research when they aren't adventurers? (I certainly don't think all the vast numbers of archmages in Alphatia are all former or current adventurers, for example!) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:58:29 -0400 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Gault Subject: Mystaran Monster @ WotC website In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable In the first of WotC's "Cliffhangers" serial adventures they use a Choker, which appears in the Mystara Monstrous compendium. The Stats given are as follows: Choker: CR 2; Small Abberation (4 ft. 2 in. tall); HD 3d8+3; hp 18 (wounded, currently 16 hp); Init +4 (Improved Initiative); Spd 20 ft., climb 10 ft.; AC 16 (+1 size, +5 natural); Atk +6/+6 ( 1d3+3 [x2] tentacle slap); Reach 10 ft.; SA constrict 1d3+3; AL CE; SV Fort +2, Ref +1, Wil +4; Str 16, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 4, Wis 13, Cha 7 Skills and Feats: Climb +16, Hide +7, Move Silently +4; Improved Initiative SA=96Haste (Su): The choker may take an extra partial action each turn as if affected by the haste spell. SA=96Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, the choker must hit an opponent of up to Large size with a tentacle attack. If it gets a hold, it can constrict. SA=96Constrict (Ex): A choker deals 1d3+3 points of damage with a successful grapple check against Large or smaller creatures. Because it seizes victims by the neck, a creature in the choker=92s grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components. These are brief stats, but they show some small changes in the monster. A) The haste ability, not in the 2nd Ed. B) Smaller damage die used, but the creature's strength is added in. C) About 7 inches taller. OK. It's official. I must be a little bored tonight to have written this. Dylan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:52:53 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Mystaran Monster @ WotC website In-Reply-To: <20000901005623.JUWH987.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@oemcomput er> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:58 8/31/00 -0400, Dylan Gault wrote: >In the first of WotC's "Cliffhangers" serial adventures they use a >Choker, which appears in the Mystara Monstrous compendium. I'm guessing that means it's made the Monster Manual cut. That's one. And hardly the one I'd expect to go mainstream, personally. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:53:32 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Undead and aging In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Here are things I'd consider for an magic-user shapechanged into a lich; they don't necessarily work together. First, though, I'd say that as with other spells I'd allow seamless duration if one casts the spell again before the previous one ends. The time doesn't stack, though, but the new spell duration replaces the old. So if you cast a spell with a 6 hour duration, then cast it again after 5 hours, to make absolutely sure that it doesn't run out before you expect, you now have another 6 hours, for a total of 11, not your old spell's last hour plus a new six. The new spell doesn't "wait" for the old one to finish to take effect. Anyway: 1) I like Eyal's idea that you will not only continue to age without showing effects, but will die when your "time is up" even though you will seem and fee fine until that point. This fits well with how 3e deals with druids and I think monks, who at high levels become immune to aging effects and attacks. They seem to stop aging, but you still have to keep track of their age because whenever their age for dieing comes up, they're dead regardless of their good health prior. 2) If you can live for centuries or millenia as a shapechanged pseudo-lich, I think the DM should make checks for the MU going insane from the horrific condition and for living beyond the time a human is intended to remain mentally healthy. Remember, your mind does not change with shapechange, and it's quite possible that 500 years of living would drive a person insane. If the insanity is bad enough, the DM could rule that the MU has become an NPC because he can't be played the way the PC wants anymore. Similarly, there is no guarantee that with eternal life you have eternal memory. The pseudo-lich may forget most things that occurred 100 years ago or more, and his very self-identity may be compromised. He can keep a journal but first of all he may not think to do so until the memory loss becomes serious, and secondly there is only so much a diary can do to connect you to your past. A real lich sort of is insane, and as an undead has eternal memory and wits, I assume. The shapechanged pseudo-lich has no such guarantee. 3) The DM may decide that in order to duplicate the effects of being a lich as faithfully as a shapechange spell does, it actually does create a connection between the PC and the Sphere of Entropy or Negative Material Plane, or whatever. For short durations, this may not be a problem, but after extended periods (as little as days, or as long as centuries, you decide) this extended suffusion of negative energy may actually turn the PC into a real undead, just not one as powerful as a lich! In fact, this new undead may be incapable of casting 9th level spells, and may even become mindless, etc, so the MU's gig is up! Perhaps an undead created in this manner is of an entirely new type that the DM can create. I like this idea most because it makes reasonable sense to me, makes for fun storytelling, can be applied rationally as soon or as late as the DM decides enough is enough, can be used to permit or prohibit a PC retaining control of his/her character in its new undead form, and allows the DM complete control of how powerful or weak the undead is based on the creature chosen or created for this purpose. In fact, the DM may have a PC party encounter such a form of undead in their adventures and learn that while rare, it is not unheard of for wizards to think of this trick for achieving immortality and power as a lich by "cheating the system" and getting seriously screwed over for their audacity. I'm sure Immortals of Entropy would just loooove when this happens. Talk about hubris turning around and bitch-slapping your lazy, power-hungry ass! Magus Coeruleus ./ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \. < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > .\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /. "The difference between George W. Bush and Al Gore is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader --->>> votenader.org <<<--- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 06:14:37 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > that with Shapechange the wizard gets all of the creatures' abilities, > > powers and immunities, including in this case immunity to aging and aging > > effects) > > << Problem comes when his magic is dispelled by those pesky adventurers and > the shapechange, since he is within the area of the dispel, goes too. As for>> > > Well, first thing, it's a bit difficult to dispel a 36th level mage > enchantment, but even if they do, suppose he's already lived for 100 years > like this.. Actually considering the way dispel works in OD&D it's a hell of a lot easier than in any other version, there's a chance for a 17th level to knock it down increasing to near certainty as the casters level approaches 36. > > < the seeming effect of the magic cast upon him that he has not since he is > constantly imitating the same lich at the same point in time as it was > observed.>> > > Sorry, I didn't get this one... do u mean he's aged nonetheless, but the > outside appearance of the lich is the same?? > Yes. > << BTW where exactly does the immunity to aging actually appear? I run > undead as ignoring the dibilitating effects of age and ageing attacks, some > do increase in power with age IMC, but there is no actual immunity.>> > > Indeed, there is! Undead have no biological functions, they rely solely on > negative energy, and thus they do not age, they do not decay with time > (especially the greater undead like vampires, mummies, ghosts and liches). > Same reason why they can't choke: they do not breathe, so suffocating them > is pointless. > Sorry unles you can actually point to something that says thet are immune to ageing not just unaffected by it, semantically an immense difference, they do age. Apparently they suffer no ill effects of aging however. We could do the semantic tapdance all day over this one and our interpretations of the information. I'll just agree to disagree. > > Also, what if the PC shapechanged into lich is hit by an aging attack? > Will > > he be affected when he changes back to normal form? (I think not, this > > would be plain stupid for a 9th level spell..) > > << I'd say it does, because, if it actually manages to hit, it's him and > not the seeming of the spell that has been cast upon him that has been > affected. Whilst the shapechange is in effect he will be able to ignore any > disabiliting effects though, even death due to extreme old age.>> > > Heck man! With this you're telling me that if you shapechange (remember, > 9th level spell! Not the mean polymorph self!) into a creature that's > immune to normal weapons (say a lycanthrope) and get hit by normal weapons, > you don't suffer wounds as long as u remain shapechanged, but the damage > befalls u once u turn to your original form!?? That's just nonsense! Even > with polymorph self u could become a fire salamander and ignore the effects > of normal fire (you don't get burned once u turn back human by the fire you > have bypassed!!).... Sorry, I cannot but disagree with this point.. it > would just not be a 9th level spell! > My opinion on this one is derived purely from the way I rule on undead IMC. As was stated I DON'T give them immunity, since I can't see it listed anywhere, so he get's nailed when he drops the shapechange. Whilst he is a lich he can ignore the detrimental ageing effects because he is trying to be something he remembers. It's due to the simple fact that you grant him immunity to aging that causes the problem IMO, since there's nothing which actually says he gets such an ability. The others you mention actually state that they are immune to the things you note, in the case of lycanthropes by the fact that normal weapons are not listed as being something which can damage them in animal form. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 06:32:43 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: UNdead and aging MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Stalker" To: Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] UNdead and aging > On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:15:39 DM wrote: > > Paul George Dooley wrote: > > > >> Imagine a wizard gets the power to Shapechange into an undead Lich and > >> stays that way for 100 years without letting the spell off (casting it > >> three times a day at 36th level mantains you shapechanged for a whole > >day). > > > ><< Shouldn't that be 5 times a day since each will have a maximum duration > >of 6 hours? 4 would leave a small time each day when you weren't under the > >effects of the spell.>> > > > >Yep, my mistake. But a 36th level wizard can still cast 9 9th lvl spells, > >so no worry for this.. > > > > Maximum duration of 6 hours? IIRC he still needs to sleep for 8 to recover his spells, i.e., Problem! :) > The term used in OD&D is well rested, mentioning a single nights sleep is enough, which can be less, or more, than 8 hours. Two 5 hour blocks with a quick bit of spellcasting between is perfectly reasonable, since most of us know someone who only sleeps 4-5 hours a night for years and seems to be unhindered by it. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.