=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:58:20 +0200
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter One: Ancient History
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Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT> wrote:


> Chronicles of Nentsun
> CHAPTER ONE: ANCIENT HISTORY

An interesting read. Remind me again where Nentsun is? And in view of =
this Zyxl affair, isn't Nentsun the Ethengarian word for arm pit or =
something like that?!? Besides it being a veery long post (with no =
warning), I really only have one problem with it, though that's a =
serious one.

<unscrupulous snipping commences>

> This Strange Engine
> Klee had been a brilliant scientist, before converting to
> priesthood, and searched the ancient Blackmoorian Empire's lands =
hoping
> to find a power engine that he could use to warm artificially the =
lands
> of Nasuua. When he discovered the engine, he altered it magically, and
> then he created nine minor engines connected to the first, and put =
them
> in strategic areas of Nasuua. However, Klee was worried by the
> possibility that the engine could explode. He didn't want the Nasuuans
> to know the nature of the engine, because he didn't want technology to
> destroy Mystara, but on the other side, he had used technology, =
against
> his own believes, to help the population. (2,300 BC)

Now, as always, do what you like IYC. I'm finding it very hard to =
believe that any of the Immortals who actually experienced the original =
Great Rain of Fire would allow anything like this to happen. This seems =
like people (or actually one person) is setting up a situation similar =
to the one that caused the greatest catastrophe in Mystaran history. =
Clearly this calls for Divine Intervention! I don't know what's =
happening behind the scenes, and if this 'engine' really is a =
combination of technology and magic, or if you have some interesting =
plot twists waiting regarding the nature of the 'engine'. But if this is =
not the case, I'm having a hard time envisioning this happening on =
Mystara...

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:04:53 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Re: Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter One: Ancient History
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> An interesting read. Remind me again where Nentsun is? And in view of this Zyxl affair, isn't Nentsun the Ethengarian word for arm pit or something like that?!? Besides it being a veery long post (with no warning),

I'm sorry...

> I really only have one problem with it, though that's a serious one.
>
> <unscrupulous snipping commences>
> Now, as always, do what you like IYC. I'm finding it very hard to believe that any of the Immortals who actually experienced the original Great Rain of Fire would allow anything like this to happen. This seems like people (or actually one person) is setting up a situation similar to the one that caused the greatest catastrophe in Mystaran history. Clearly this calls for Divine Intervention! I don't know what's happening behind the scenes, and if this 'engine' really is a combination of technology and magic, or if you have some interesting plot twists waiting regarding the nature of the 'engine'. But if this is not the case, I'm having a hard time envisioning this happening on Mystara...

The reason for it is that the magic was heavily changed. The effect of the
modified engines (and this will show up in chapter two and six) is much reduced.
The radiations are light, and in fact the problems caused by the engines, even if all
exploded, would be much less than any effect of Glantri's Radiance. If we go by
what you suggest, the Radiance should not exist...I have somewhat mirrored its
effects limiting them much. However, I will explain myself better in next posts. And,
moreover, this is just a version of Nentsun...this is not Canon...8-)

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:49:26 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of
              the             Mystara Online Archive
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Aren't all the objectives of this website already achieved with Shawn
Stanley's website? (www.dnd.starflung.com)
What can D&DWorlds offer the MML contributers that the aforementioned site
does not offer?

Morphail

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:26:29 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jeff Daly <jdaly@FRIEND.LY.NET>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of
              the             Mystara Online Archive
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Thanks for the offer.  I went to the site, found it took forever to load,
left, and pretty much concluded that I'm plenty happy with Shawn Stanley's
site, which actually has a nod from the company, if I am not mistaken.  I'm
sure you would be welcome to help contribute to it.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Morris <mlmorr0@POP.UKY.EDU>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:40 AM
Subject: [MYSTARA] MISC: Help Wanted: D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of
the Mystara Online Archive


> Greetings All.
>
> I am Michael Morris, the director of the D&DWorlds project, a fan site of
> the D&D game dedicated to helping you bring your creations to the web, and
> to helping folks find your creations alongside those of your fellow
gamers.
> As part of this process we are creating an Online Archive for the campaign
> settings created by TSR, including the Mystara Campaign setting.
>     The archive is being set up for these charter reasons...To host

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:04:45 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Chronicles of Nentsun: an excerpt for Jacob (a little long)
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Ok, Jacob, here is a bit from chapter seven of the Chronicles of
Nentsun. It is
not finished, but it mentions most of the effects of the engines, and I
don't see them
as terrible. Ok, they destroy a lot of land, but don't need Immortal
involvement, at
least I think so. Let me know what YOU think...8-)

The Unholy Devices of Blekmur

It is now necessary to look greater in the detail what happens to the
Unholy Devices if they ever explode. And to do so, we will have them
explode during the Week without Magic on Mystara, the last days of year
1009 After Coronation, following the Thyatian Calendar.

As told before, when all the Devices� EP (Engine Points) drop under 200,
they begin to emit radiations. These radiations are not long-lasting:
their effect is istantaneous, not prolonged in time, so if a person, a
tree, a country is removed from the exposition source, it reverts to its
normal status after a period of time equal to that of exposition. The
radiations affect people in that they produce cancers, and mutations
(90% lethal) to children that are born during the radiation exposure of
their parents. Similar effects take place on trees and animals.

If a Device ever gets to 0 EP, all the engines explode. The result is a
catastrophic (although limited) cataclysm. All engine explosions have
this effect:
1) All persons, animals and trees in a 12 kilometers radius are
instantly killed. All buildings are destroyed completely, and only ash
remains.

However, the central engine, located in Vixen, gives also the following
effects:
2) 12 to 36 kilometers: all living things are injured by radiations and
die in 1-6 hours. The region becomes ash desert, but massive buildings
resist although severely damaged.
3) 36 to 60 kilometers: all living things are injured by radiations and
die in 6-24 hours. The region becomes ash desert, but buildings,
although damaged, survive.
4) 60 to 120 kilometers: all living things are injured by radiations.
Saving throw against poison or die in 1-8 days. Otherwise, they die in
1-6 months. Land becomes mostly ash. Radioactive oasis remain. Buildings
are generally undamaged.
5) 120-240 kilometers: all living things are injured by radiations. They
die in 1-8 years.
6) More than 240 kilometers: living things are less and less damaged.
Oasis are formed
without dangerous radiations. Desert gives definitely way to steppes,
then (over
300 kilometers) things are no more damaged and prairies are formed.
Farming can
be resumed, people are not affected.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:39:05 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Thibault Sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces theCreation ofthe
              Mystara Online Archive
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I am a big fan of our already official site (hail to shawn!!!) but if we want
to drag to us new players and new fans, being present in such a site could be
a good move from us toward a better recognition. It's not enough to know that
Mystara is the best setting we have to share with others and try to convert
them.
I tend to see ourselves as immortals having lost most of our followers and
slowly going into oblivion. We have to make plots against the other settings
in order to convert fresh blood to our beloved Mystara.

It won't add anything to the work we already do but it will certainly help us
spreading it .

--
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage  http://www.mystara.com.bi
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at
clenarius@hotmail.com

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:41:24 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      More crazy devices to reach immortality (was: Valerias.. WHY?)
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Paul George Dooley wrote:
>
> > > > A weird thought: if a modified nuclear engine can be used to reach the
> > > > Sphere of Energy, would a modified steam engine be usable to reach the
> > > > Sphere of Time?
> > >
> > > Other ideas? Coal engine for Matter? And what for Thought?
> > > However, it could be a good idea, but only if we carefully work it out.
> > > And I have too much to do, in this period.
> >
> > I got the idea from the AD&D quasielemental planes... so electric engine
> > for air, and steam engine for water!
>
>     Why not tidal engine for water,  pressure (geo-thermal) for matter, and
> a windmill for air.

Eh, there would be plenty of Immortal millers from Linden ;)

> Not forgetting the vacuum pump of entropy of course! ;^)

Or, vacuum pump for Vacuum, heat pump for Ash, an electrolytic device
for Salt, and... uhm, I'm running short of ideas... a grinder for Dust?
:)
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:29:56 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter One: Ancient History
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Caroletti wrote:
>
> Chronicles of Nentsun
> CHAPTER ONE: ANCIENT HISTORY
[..]
> But this is another story�

Good work, Giulio!
I have some questions:

1) About the rakasta: which was the subspecies that invaded Nentsun? You
say they were armed with wakizashi, so they could be Myoshimans... but
they are nomadic and savage... and they are led by Rakshasas. I'd like
to read more about these rakastas, especially where did they come from.

2) What happened to the Immortal Nentsun? I mean, you don't tell much
about the evolution of religion after the non-human invasions. How did
Klee-Nentsun fare during that time?

3) Was the arrival of the goblinoids due to a migration or to immortal
interference?

Thanks,
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:45:00 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Re: Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter One: Ancient History
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>
> 1) About the rakasta: which was the subspecies that invaded Nentsun? You
> say they were armed with wakizashi, so they could be Myoshimans... but
> they are nomadic and savage... and they are led by Rakshasas. I'd like
> to read more about these rakastas, especially where did they come from.

Point is, I know little about rakastas, so I hoped this article could help
me to find
out something about them...I especially want to know if there are any
references
to how the rakasta race came into existence, and when did they appeared on
Mystara...anyone can help me?

> 2) What happened to the Immortal Nentsun? I mean, you don't tell much
> about the evolution of religion after the non-human invasions. How did
> Klee-Nentsun fare during that time?

This aspect will be detailed later in my campaign work. I hope to be able to
write
an article each week. I have nearly finished chapter 5 and 7. Probably the
next,
however, will be chapter 3 (second part of history), while chapter 2
(Nentsun ac 0
gazetteer) will be one of the last.

> 3) Was the arrival of the goblinoids due to a migration or to immortal
> interference?

Natural. Beastmen crossing over to Skothar through icecaps begin to breed
true
and become the Skothar version of the humanoids. I will detail the subraces
that
are present in Nentsun.

By the way, the project is big. If anybody wants to help...? no Alphatians,
thanks 8-)

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:34:24 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Alan Shutko <ats@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Valerias.. WHY?
In-Reply-To:  Paul George Dooley's message of "Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:37:36 +0100"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Paul George Dooley <dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK> writes:

> and a windmill for air

You just want an excuse to use the Doomgrinder.

--
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors!
27 days, 1 hours, 1 minutes, 10 seconds till we run away.
A chronic disposition to inquiry deprives domestic felines of vital qualities.

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:55:24 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Paul George Dooley <dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Valerias.. WHY?
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> You just want an excuse to use the Doomgrinder.
>
    I don't need an excuse. What I want is some sort of justification! ;^)

Hamlet I, v, 166.
Words to live by?

Paul

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:36:23 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         John Hofmann <djemonk@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the
              Creatio
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>------Original Message------
>From: Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
>Aren't all the objectives of this website already achieved with Shawn
>Stanley's website? (www.dnd.starflung.com)
>What can D&DWorlds offer the MML contributers that the >aforementioned site
>does not offer?
>

>From reading the original post, I think I see where this guy is coming from
with his archive idea.  I am going to comment on the technical aspects of
the post (I'm an IT consultant, so I basically spend 50+ hours per week
doing this sort of thing).  Before I do, let me say that the archive that we
have (that being Shawn's website) is the single greatest Mystara resource
out there.  However, as it grows in size, it might become more and more
difficult to maintain.  I don't know how Shawn set up his site, whether he
writes out the pages in HTML or uses something on the back end to separate
the content from the display, so I can't estimate how much time he puts into
keeping his page up and running. (Shawn -- I'd love to talk with you
sometime about how your page is put together from a technical standpoint and
hear how you've done it)

The advantage that this person can offer is the database.  Simply put, as
the amount of information that will be published increases, the more
advantageous the database becomes.  Databases allow information to be
related to other information ... the effect for us is that we can be looking
at, say, the write-up of King Stefan in 3E terms, and the database can build
the page and include links to information about Karameikos, other characters
in Karameikos, and 3E conversion rules that are available.

Another advantage that the database could offer is that it separates the
information from the display.  This means that, for example, if someone
decided that the Mystara webpage would look really kEWl to have red text on
a black background, that change could be made in one place, and the whole
site would be affected (and, fortunatly, it would be just as easy to change
it back after the first few complaints of eyesore came in).

Looking down the road to the day when we all have high-speed internet
connections, the database also allows the ability to store the information
in a more useful way than HTML.  Let's say that someone here writes a
program that can do all the "grunt-work" of calculating results of mass
combat (using the War Machine rules from the Companion Set/Rules
Cyclopedia).  This program takes the information about each army, computes
the BFR, BR and so forth, and then runs the combat, letting you know the
results.  With high-speed internet connections, we'd only need to have one
source of this information (the database) that we could all get to.

Another advantage is one that was stated in the email.  We could have a
forum for feedback about each article or submission.  This would also allow
the ability to see which articles are popular and useful, or to sort by
author (you could say "I'd like to see all of Thibult's maps")(sorry if I
misspelled your name).

Of course, all these advantages are looking down the road a while (some
farther than others).  And, they also assume that this person and his site
are for real, and they assume that we can think of a good way to represent
all the information that we want in the database, and they assume that
someone is capable of administering the database well (relatively
inexperienced Database Administrators commonly get billed at $100-$150 per
hour where I live).

I can see where this guy is trying to go.  I would also feel better about
his suggestion with more information about it.

John Hofmann

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:14:15 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Michael Morris <mlmorr0@POP.UKY.EDU>
Organization: University of Kentucky
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of the
              Mystara Online Archive
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Shaham Ilan" <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] MISC: Help Wanted: D&DWorlds Announces the Creation
of the Mystara Online Archive


> Aren't all the objectives of this website already achieved with Shawn
> Stanley's website? (www.dnd.starflung.com)
> What can D&DWorlds offer the MML contributers that the aforementioned site
> does not offer?

1.  Individualized access.  You do not have to go through a webmaster to
post your creations, edit your creations or delete your creations.

2.  Indvidualized commentary.  Each document on the site can receive it's
own comments and items

3.  Collaboration:  Pages can be set up so that multiple persons can edit
them, rather than putting all the work on a single individual.

4.  Crossreferencing:  Although the search engine is still under
construction, the groundwork for it's support is not.  Each item on the site
is an item in a database.  In future folks will be able to look up items
through the search item based on various criteria.  So, for instance, a
search for new monsters in all of D&D would bring up the Mystara entries
(admittedly it would bring up every monster in Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms,
Greyhawk, et al).  If a Mystar monster gets the attention of the user and
they go to the link for it they'll be taken to the Mystara section of the
site.




>
> Morphail
>
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>

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:23:41 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Michael Morris <mlmorr0@POP.UKY.EDU>
Organization: University of Kentucky
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creatio
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hofmann" <djemonk@JUNO.COM>
To: <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] MISC: Help Wanted: D&DWorlds Announces the Creatio


> Of course, all these advantages are looking down the road a while (some
> farther than others).  And, they also assume that this person and his site
> are for real, and they assume that we can think of a good way to represent
> all the information that we want in the database, and they assume that
> someone is capable of administering the database well (relatively
> inexperienced Database Administrators commonly get billed at $100-$150 per
> hour where I live).
>
> I can see where this guy is trying to go.  I would also feel better about
> his suggestion with more information about it.

    Well, the site itself is for real, and currently has 7 campaign settings
and two of the archives running (Ravenloft & Forgotten Realms).  The Realms
team is wading through the huge problem of converting over the contents of
The Best of the FR List which was given to us by Craig Sefton.
    As to the technical information of the site, it's designer Ed Lazor is
the best man to contact.  He's away for the weekend (today is his birthday),
but his email is osmosis@atfantasy.com  He wrote the MySQL code of our site
and is currently building version 2.0 of it with Leo Simons.

    More information on the server itself is here  www.atfantasy.com  That
is the parent site of the D&DWorlds project.  AtFantasy also handles more
universal RPG documents, while D&DWorlds sticks to D&D.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:11:48 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Chronicles of Nentsun feedback
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Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT> wrote:


> The reason for it is that the magic was heavily changed. The effect of =
the
> modified engines (and this will show up in chapter two and six) is =
much reduced.
> The radiations are light, and in fact the problems caused by the =
engines, even if all
> exploded, would be much less than any effect of Glantri's Radiance. If =
we go by
> what you suggest, the Radiance should not exist...I have somewhat =
mirrored its
> effects limiting them much. However, I will explain myself better in =
next posts. And,
> moreover, this is just a version of Nentsun...this is not Canon...8-)

Not Canon?!? You got me there... ;) No, seriously, if you're saying that =
the Immortals allowed the construction of the engine, but modified it =
without Klee's knowledge so it wouldn't be able to repeat (or even come =
close to repeating) the disastrous results of the Great Rain of Fire =
(not even if further modified by other mortals), then I guess *I* can =
accept it (not that that should matter so much to *you*; btw thanks for =
giving my opinion such weight). My initial reaction was mainly based on =
lack of details, and also meant to encourage you to give this matter =
some thought if you hadn't already.

I don't think that Glantri's Radiance is that dangerous (I mean in =
danger of exploding). Besides the Immortals didn't discover it until =
thousands of years had passed, and some Old One had already meddled with =
it at that point (WotI book 2, pg. 7-8). Had the Immortals known about =
the engine earlier, they would likely have taken steps to get rid of it, =
and there would, indeed, be no Radiance. Klee's 'engine', however, =
doesn't seem particularly secret, and is made within less than a =
millenium (presumably not that long for an Immortal) of the Great Rain =
of Fire (btw that Klee fellow sure is long-lived, isn't he?). I can =
easily see how a lot of Immortals would have an interest in simply =
sabotaging it, so it wouldn't become dangerous. I guess they might, for =
once, have agreed on non-intervention or subtle intervention, but a =
matter of such potential disaster would likely call for at least some =
level of intervention. Give it some thought...

Your excerpt of disaster looks like great fun, btw. It does seem a bit =
harsh, if you imagine what potentially could be within 240 km. Imagine =
that a city with skyscrapers (like Blackmoor or New York), a huge center =
of population, is eventually built (the Immortals won't know what will =
happen in, say, 2,000 years). A guaranteed 240 km lethality could =
potentially wipe out quite a few cultures. Or imagine the 'engine' =
placed in, say, Alfheim...

Oh, and what kind of a place name is Vixen?!? ;)

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:10:11 +1000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         shawn stanley <stanles@ALPHALINK.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of the
              Mystara Online Archive
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 13:49 15/10/00 +0200, you wrote:
>Aren't all the objectives of this website already achieved with Shawn
>Stanley's website? (www.dnd.starflung.com)
>What can D&DWorlds offer the MML contributers that the aforementioned site
>does not offer?

at the worst it appears to be yet another way to get your work out there,
and since Ohad you're one of the more prolific authors that's up for you to
think about whether that's a good thing or not.

shawn stanley
http://dnd.starflung.com

what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me
                         - mightyfew, "i can't wait"

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:12:10 +1000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         shawn stanley <stanles@ALPHALINK.COM.AU>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of the
              Mystara Online Archive
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 08:26 15/10/00 -0400, Jeff Daly wrote:
>Thanks for the offer.  I went to the site, found it took forever to load,
>left, and pretty much concluded that I'm plenty happy with Shawn Stanley's
>site

I'll go to D&DWorlds and see what not to do then :o)

>which actually has a nod from the company, if I am not mistaken

yep, they have

>I'm sure you would be welcome to help contribute to it.

of course

shawn stanley
http://dnd.starflung.com

what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me
                         - mightyfew, "i can't wait"

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:26:53 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter One: Ancient History
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Caroletti wrote:
>
> Point is, I know little about rakastas, so I hoped this article could help
> me to find
> out something about them...I especially want to know if there are any
> references
> to how the rakasta race came into existence, and when did they appeared on
> Mystara...anyone can help me?

The reference you need is (of course) "Rakasta of Mystara", from Dragon
Magazine.

> By the way, the project is big. If anybody wants to help...?

Why, me! I have only three or four projects I'm working on at the time,
and I'm always interested in working on somethig which involves the
rakasta (or lupin, tortle) race :)

> no Alphatians, thanks 8-)

;)
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@X-Mozilla-Status: 0009erta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:08:48 GMT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         kevin wyton <caliir@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Elven Holidays
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Greetings all

An interesting omission has come to light in the campaign I am playing in.
While reading through and marking birthdays and such in her Mystaran
calender our DM noticed a lack of listed holy days and other such festive
occurrences for elves. Did she perhaps miss them in the almanacs?

My sugestions included: The founding of Alfheim
                        The fall fo Alfheim
                        the solstices and equinoxes (in worship of Ordana)
                        King's day-the anniversary of the crowning of the
first elven king


Does anyone know of any canon info, and/or some historical dates that would
make interesting notes on an elfs personal calender?

kevin
"If I belch in the middle of a forest, and no one hears me is it still bad
manners?" my nephew,4yrs old
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:26:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
In-Reply-To:  <F1141E9GQvnbEG10Gai000040df@hotmail.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 20:08 10/15/00 GMT, kevin wyton wrote:
>Greetings all
>
>An interesting omission has come to light in the campaign I am playing in.
>While reading through and marking birthdays and such in her Mystaran
>calender our DM noticed a lack of listed holy days and other such festive
>occurrences for elves. Did she perhaps miss them in the almanacs?
>
>My sugestions included: The founding of Alfheim
>                        The fall fo Alfheim
>                        the solstices and equinoxes (in worship of Ordana)
>                        King's day-the anniversary of the crowning of the
>first elven king
>
>
>Does anyone know of any canon info, and/or some historical dates that would
>make interesting notes on an elfs personal calender?

        Depending on what year you're playing in, the anniversary of Alfheim's
final defeat might be a holiday marked by solemn contemplation and
rededicating oneself to defeating the shadow elves.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:13:40 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
MIME-Version: 1.0
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kevin wyton <caliir@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:


> Greetings all

And to you as well.
=20
> An interesting omission has come to light in the campaign I am playing =
in.
> While reading through and marking birthdays and such in her Mystaran
> calender our DM noticed a lack of listed holy days and other such =
festive
> occurrences for elves. Did she perhaps miss them in the almanacs?

Indeed the almanacs list a number of Shadow Elven holidays as well as a =
few for the Glantrian elves, but none that seem related to Alfheim. I =
guess those flighty elves just threw a party when they felt like it... =
;)  Yes, yes, I know they're not really like that; just call me a =
prejudiced Ostlander.

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:34:16 -0500
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Eric Anondson <xen@VISI.COM>
Subject:      What makes something "Mystara"
In-Reply-To:  <200010152111.QAA09842@mail.visi.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
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I have been pondering a question as I have begun to get a greater interest
in all things Mystara.  I had gotten into the Realms when it was first
released years ago, and I have been into Greyhawk since the '83 boxed set.
I have a substantial collection of material from most every world, and I can
fairly well see what appeals about each world and what is it's turn-offs.
Most times there will be an obvious "feel" about material specific to a
setting.

What makes something "feel Mystaran", and then wouldn't be mistaken as
Greyhawk or Realms or Dragonlance, or any other typical generic fantasy?

Is it just how maps are drawn? ;)  Is it just that there are Immortals, not
gods?  Is it the plethora of historical-Earth equivalent societies?  Can
anyone define a Mystaran feel?


Eric Anondson

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:43:06 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Eric Anondson <xen@VISI.COM> wrote:


> What makes something "feel Mystaran", and then wouldn't be mistaken as
> Greyhawk or Realms or Dragonlance, or any other typical generic =
fantasy?

This might not be exactly what you were asking for, but it's getting =
pretty late in my corner of the world and I feel like raving a bit, so =
here goes! (If you continue beyond this point, then don't say you =
weren't warned!)

Mystara to me is a combination of a lot of things. Actually it's always =
easier defined by what it's not, so here comes a bit of a mix of what =
Mystara is or isn't to me:

Mystara is (to me) a place where
-you don't expect the next guy you meet to be an archmage in disguise or =
a member of some powerful organization.
-players can expect to be given dominions and become nobility at higher =
levels.
-civilization isn't threatened by collapse due to some obscure monsters =
lurking around.
-maps are drawn by symbols on hexes.
-there's always room for one more nation/civilization/race/whatever =
without it looking overly crowded.
-epic events and large-scale consequences are not avoided just to =
maintain the status quo.
-Larry Elmore rules! Yes, he rules Dragonlance too, but those =
illustrations of huge landscapes covered in forests, with a small keep =
or tower almost hidden in the background, and some dragon or wizard =
standing around; these illustrations are just so...Mystara(!) to me.
-there is no single =FCber-dude/nation/item/whatever to end them all.
-even the most hare-brained, weird old product, that nobody ever thought =
would be used for anything, somehow is part of the setting, and still =
makes some sort of twisted sense.
-I'll always feel right at home.

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
signing off and going to bed!

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:55:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Dave Keyser <dave@PALMCHIP.COM>
Organization: Palmchip
Subject:      First appearance of the Hivebrood,
              another slice of Mystara publication history
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In case you are not familiar with the Hivebrood, they are an insect-like race
that live in colonies similar to ants.  They are parasitic, laying their eggs in
creatures like humans, who eventually overcome and transform the host.
There are several kinds, including broodlings, hivebroods, hiveleaders, hiveminds
and the broodmother.  I believe they have come up on the MML before, someone
had a project with them which they discussed on the list.

They were a D&D monster, making what I thought was their first appearance in
the AC9 Creature Catalog, published in 1986.  After that they made one appearance
in a D&D adventure, in Dungeon magazine #13, which was set in Specularum,
Karameikos.  They reappeared in the DMR2 Creature Catalog, and they may or may
not have been in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium.

But I recently discovered that the creatures of the Hivebrood made an even
earlier appearance, in 1985 they were first introduced in a three page D&D Expert/
Companion scenario that was published in the first issue of a magazine called
GameMaster Publications.

What was GameMaster Publications?  It was a UK D&D gaming magazine, produced
by the same writers that had worked on the TSR UK Imagine magazine, a product
superior(IMHO) to Dragon at the time.  Imagine magazine went for 30 issues in the
early 1980's, before TSR closed down most of the TSR UK branch(all but sales and
marketing).  In defiance, some of the laid off RPG designers got together to make
GameMaster Publications, believing they could build on the success of Imagine.
They did it without the backing or approval of TSR.

Each issue contained a full 32-page adventure, of solid quality, as well as a few articles,
letters, and updates on the gaming industry.  Unfortunately, the magazine only lasted
for five issues.

Each of the five had some D&D compatible material, as it built on the campaign world of
Pelinore from Imagine magazine.  You can find more info about Pelinore in my Mystara
index at Shawn's site.  I have recently sent Shawn an update to that index(last week), and
I will have to send another update soon to categorize this new information.

But out of the five issues, only the first issue, GM1 A Flight of Eagles has a strong implicit
link to Mystara, that being the Hivebrood scenario.  The scenario itself is small enough
to be set anywhere.  The PCs find that a small homestead near the edge of wilderness has
been attacked, and soon battle what looks like a combined force of hobgoblins and elves.
The truth that they infected broodlings soon becomes apparent, and the PCs can then
follow the trail to the small hive.

The monster description is all here, pretty much verbatim to what was found in AC9.
One small suprise was that a horse hiveleader and a stirge hivebrood make an appearance,
I had made the assumption that they had to infect humanoid or at least intelligent
creatures, but I don't recall if that was ever actually in the latter published monster
descriptions.

Oh, and the creator of the Hivebrood and the scenario was Fiona Lloyd.

Dave Keyser

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:03:57 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         John Traglio <Spidertrag@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: First appearance of the Hivebrood,
              another slice of Mystara pub...
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 10/15/00 6:59:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
dave@PALMCHIP.COM writes:

<< In case you are not familiar with the Hivebrood, they are an insect-like
race
 that live in colonies similar to ants.  They are parasitic, laying their
eggs in
 creatures like humans, who eventually overcome and transform the host.
 There are several kinds, including broodlings, hivebroods, hiveleaders,
hiveminds
 and the broodmother.  I believe they have come up on the MML before, someone
 had a project with them which they discussed on the list.

 They were a D&D monster, making what I thought was their first appearance in
 the AC9 Creature Catalog, published in 1986.  After that they made one
appearance
 in a D&D adventure, in Dungeon magazine #13, which was set in Specularum,
 Karameikos.  They reappeared in the DMR2 Creature Catalog, and they may or
may
 not have been in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium.

 But I recently discovered that the creatures of the Hivebrood made an even
 earlier appearance, in 1985 they were first introduced in a three page D&D
Expert/
 Companion scenario that was published in the first issue of a magazine called
 GameMaster Publications.

 What was GameMaster Publications?  It was a UK D&D gaming magazine, produced
 by the same writers that had worked on the TSR UK Imagine magazine, a product
 superior(IMHO) to Dragon at the time.  Imagine magazine went for 30 issues
in the
 early 1980's, before TSR closed down most of the TSR UK branch(all but sales
and
 marketing).  In defiance, some of the laid off RPG designers got together to
make
 GameMaster Publications, believing they could build on the success of
Imagine.
 They did it without the backing or approval of TSR.

 Each issue contained a full 32-page adventure, of solid quality, as well as
a few articles,
 letters, and updates on the gaming industry.  Unfortunately, the magazine
only lasted
 for five issues.

 Each of the five had some D&D compatible material, as it built on the
campaign world of
 Pelinore from Imagine magazine.  You can find more info about Pelinore in my
Mystara
 index at Shawn's site.  I have recently sent Shawn an update to that
index(last week), and
 I will have to send another update soon to categorize this new information.

 But out of the five issues, only the first issue, GM1 A Flight of Eagles has
a strong implicit
 link to Mystara, that being the Hivebrood scenario.  The scenario itself is
small enough
 to be set anywhere.  The PCs find that a small homestead near the edge of
wilderness has
 been attacked, and soon battle what looks like a combined force of
hobgoblins and elves.
 The truth that they infected broodlings soon becomes apparent, and the PCs
can then
 follow the trail to the small hive.

 The monster description is all here, pretty much verbatim to what was found
in AC9.
 One small suprise was that a horse hiveleader and a stirge hivebrood make an
appearance,
 I had made the assumption that they had to infect humanoid or at least
intelligent
 creatures, but I don't recall if that was ever actually in the latter
published monster
 descriptions.

 Oh, and the creator of the Hivebrood and the scenario was Fiona Lloyd.

 Dave Keyser
  >>
These sound very interesting, can stats & so be found on the web?

Thanks
JRBT

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:19:11 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Magister Mystaros <Mystaros@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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In a message dated 10/15/00 4:55:19 PM US Eastern Standard Time, xen@VISI.COM
writes:

<< What makes something "feel Mystaran", and then wouldn't be mistaken as
 Greyhawk or Realms or Dragonlance, or any other typical generic fantasy? >>

I would have to say that it is how the history, or even simply the sense of
history, ties everything so intricately together in where Mystara and its
nations and peoples have come from, are now and where they are going in the
future as compared to most of what has happened in the other campaign
settings.  Sure, every setting has a history, but it is, for the most part,
seperate and distinct from where things actually stand "today" in that world.
 Birthright (in some ways the long-lost cousin of Mystara) and Greyhawk
perhaps are closest to the feel that Mystara has in the sociohistorical
context; where Birthright and Greyhawk were and are reflects where the
settings are going.  Not so with the other worlds, most especially Ravenloft
and Dragonlance.

Ravenloft has states appear and disappear with regularity, and things change
so often within each state that there is little or no sense of continuity.
Same with Dragonlance; lordy, how many different cataclysms/war of the
gods/dragonwars can you GO through in three generations?  The setting, its
nations and people (cultures? dare I even call them that?) are artificial and
shallow.

The same can be said for the Forgotten Realms.  So many regions have no
effect on the others in any way, shape or form that when something DOES
happen across regional boundaries (the Tuigan invasion, the Avatar crisis,
and almost any actions of the Zhentarim and the Red Wizards) that it seems
artifical and constructed... it doesn't flow, and who cares, because it is
all going to go back to the same thing soon anyway and everything will be
okay.  And where using historical cultures worked in Mystara, dropping them
willy-nilly into the Realms just... didn't work.

Not so for Mystara.  It is a living, vibrant world.  It may seem odd, the way
certain cultures fit together in such a small region, but it has an internal
consistency moreso than any of the other settings (however unlike any of the
other settings there was never a single tome that put it all together until
it was too late).  It is obvious when something strikes oddly about the way
things are done; the destruction of Alphatia in Canon left a huge vacuum that
will take decades, if not longer to play out in the game world.  Things won't
just go back to being "business as usual"...

And the continuity of the setting is such that some felt the destruction of
Alphatia was contrary to course, too "manufactured", a "deus ex machina" that
did not belong, and rejected it (for the most part) in our own campaigns.

James A. Mishler
Magister Mystaros
Mystara Lives!
Check out the excellent Official Mystara Website: http://dnd.starflung.com/

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:02:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Dave Keyser <dave@PALMCHIP.COM>
Organization: Palmchip
Subject:      Re: First appearance of the Hivebrood,another slice of Mystara
              pub...
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John Traglio wrote:

> In a message dated 10/15/00 6:59:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
> dave@PALMCHIP.COM writes:
>
> These sound very interesting, can stats & so be found on the web?

They are one of my favorites, one thing I didn't mention is that a
hivemind can absorb the abilities of any character by eating it, and
then transfer those abilities to others of the hive by chemical scent.
They make tough adversaries at any level.

But in answer to your question, right now, no I don't think so.  But
they should be when WOTC puts up the old creature catalogs for
download.

Dave Keyser

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:19:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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        OK, in the DMG, we're at last given some nice definitions for adamantite
and mithril (I like that one isn't just a more advanced version of the
other) and a new material, darkwood.
        Any other 3E DMs thought about the availability of these two materials in
Mystara? Prior to the death of the Canolbarth, it would have been a prime
location for darkwood, IMO, and it's likely still in Wendar -- or maybe it
was only in Wendar, helping to differentiate those elves from their warmer
clime cousins ...
        Any thoughts on the minerals?

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:21:07 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Larry Lamb <Boondale@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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I wouds place them in Rockhome or something. Make them a dwarvish secret or
something like that.

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:05:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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At 01:21 10/16/00 EDT, Larry Lamb wrote:
>I wouds place them in Rockhome or something. Make them a dwarvish secret or
>something like that.

        Both mithril and adamantite?
        Are either one mentioned in "Rockhome?"
        I was thinking that one might be found in Highforge instead. Of course,
after playing the new Spyro Playstation game all weekend, I'm also thinking
that there need to be large house-sized mushrooms in Mystara, so I might be
too loopy to be credible.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:42:18 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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> Is it just how maps are drawn? ;)  Is it just that there are
Immortals, not
> gods?  Is it the plethora of historical-Earth equivalent societies?
Can
> anyone define a Mystaran feel?

To me, Mystara is defined by the (near) absence of predetermined heroes
and villains, which allows for complex politics and deeper characters.
--


        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:04:48 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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Just to be perverse, I would place the magical materials where they are
least available to the races that might make use of them:

Adamantine:  In 1000 AC the best deposits of this rare metal are found
in Alfheim, Herath, and Thonia, none of which are readily accessible to
the dwarven smiths who are most skilled in working this metal.  The
dwarves of Rockhome have an extensive collection of armor and weapons
made from adamantine that was mined from the Canolbarth (Alfheim)
region before the elves occupied the region and put a stop to any further
mining.

The Meteor Impact during WotI created a new adamantine source in
the new Western Broken Lands.

Mithral:  This metal is found mostly in Rockhome, Renardy, and Zyxl.
None of these sources have yet been properly exploited, although the
discovery of this metal in Rockhome might eventually lead to mining
agreements between Rockhome and Aengmor in order to exploit the
metals in each of those nations.  Most elven chain mail has been
created either via magical enhancement from a Tree of Life or from
the now depleted mithral mines in Wendar.

Darkwood:  This rare wood is found in Robrenn and in the barbarian
lands of Davania.  Unlike the other two special materials, darkwood
has been fully exploited in the regions where it is found -- it has been
used to create powerful armor and weapons that do not violate the
prohibitions against usage of metal that would otherwise hold back
the Druidic Balancers of those regions.

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:04:58 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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IMO, quite an important Mystara trait is that there are no big cuts between
"Good nations" and "Evil nations". Of course, there are lotsa evil guys and
monsters and rampant challenges for adventurers, as in any FRPG setting, but
it goes over the "Evil empire and Arch-lord" which threaten the world.
Looking at the GAZs and other sources, no land is evil or good incarnate.
Take the Heldannic Knights, they show both traits of heroism and of cruelty,
they go into evil only for political and Immortal concrete plots; same for
WotI, the major Mystaran conflict pit against each other nations which could
not be cut into bad guys and good guys, they had realistic interests, and
the Immortal motivations, both Ixion's and Rad's, had their degree of reason
and of wrong... or Glantri, a country ruled by a majority of Evil rulers,
but which works it out as a state in which Lawful elves debate issues in
Parliament with vampire barons!! Player characters have to take many options
without taking for granted that they are "on the right side"... It's not
like just going down to the Land of Mordor where the shadows reign to beat
down the ultimate evil. It looks like a mature setting, and I think it was
kinda revolution to the idea that FRP campaigns had to follow the steps of
Tolkien as a manicheistic war of good vs. evil.

Andr�s

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Date:         Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:59:09 -0700
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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At 08:42 10/16/00 +0200, Agathokles wrote:

>To me, Mystara is defined by the (near) absence of predetermined heroes
>and villains, which allows for complex politics and deeper characters.

        What do you mean? The setting has a number of major NPCs who more or less
tower over everyone else. Hell, Bargle the Infamous doesn't even appear in
the Ierendi gazetteer -- as well he shouldn't -- but there's a throwaway
character in the setting that only works if there's a presumption that most
groups will have heard of him and know he's EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL! (Which isn't
to say I don't like the character; I intend to use him soon IMC.)
        Or do you mean that there's a lot of moral grayness in the setting? That,
I'd certainly agree with.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:24:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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At 03:04 10/16/00 EDT, David Knott wrote:
>Just to be perverse, I would place the magical materials where they are
>least available to the races that might make use of them:

        That's actually a good idea, as it'd keep them special, and not the
default magical whoosits for the races that might like them.

>Adamantine:  In 1000 AC the best deposits of this rare metal are found
>in Alfheim, Herath, and Thonia, none of which are readily accessible to
>the dwarven smiths who are most skilled in working this metal.  The
>dwarves of Rockhome have an extensive collection of armor and weapons
>made from adamantine that was mined from the Canolbarth (Alfheim)
>region before the elves occupied the region and put a stop to any further
>mining.

        I like.

>The Meteor Impact during WotI created a new adamantine source in
>the new Western Broken Lands.

        I think the Glantrians are pretty practical and would figure this one out
pretty quick.
        But do you mean that the impact exposed veins, or brought the adamantite
here from off-planet?

>Mithral:  This metal is found mostly in Rockhome, Renardy, and Zyxl.
>None of these sources have yet been properly exploited, although the
>discovery of this metal in Rockhome might eventually lead to mining
>agreements between Rockhome and Aengmor in order to exploit the
>metals in each of those nations.  Most elven chain mail has been
>created either via magical enhancement from a Tree of Life or from
>the now depleted mithral mines in Wendar.

        Hmm. I think the Rockhome dwarves would find uses for mithril. Lighter
than iron, but can be made as strong as steel? There's all sorts of goodies
there.

>Darkwood:  This rare wood is found in Robrenn and in the barbarian
>lands of Davania.  Unlike the other two special materials, darkwood
>has been fully exploited in the regions where it is found -- it has been
>used to create powerful armor and weapons that do not violate the
>prohibitions against usage of metal that would otherwise hold back
>the Druidic Balancers of those regions.

        True. I need to increase the profile of Wendar IMC, though, so I mgiht
have it still there.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:27:19 -0700
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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At 03:04 10/16/00 -0400, Andr=E9s Piquer Otero wrote:
>IMO, quite an important Mystara trait is that there are no big cuts between
>"Good nations" and "Evil nations". Of course, there are lotsa evil guys and
>monsters and rampant challenges for adventurers, as in any FRPG setting,=
 but
>it goes over the "Evil empire and Arch-lord" which threaten the world.
>Looking at the GAZs and other sources, no land is evil or good incarnate.
>Take the Heldannic Knights, they show both traits of heroism and of=
 cruelty,
>they go into evil only for political and Immortal concrete plots; same for
>WotI, the major Mystaran conflict pit against each other nations which=
 could
>not be cut into bad guys and good guys, they had realistic interests, and
>the Immortal motivations, both Ixion's and Rad's, had their degree of=
 reason
>and of wrong... or Glantri, a country ruled by a majority of Evil rulers,
>but which works it out as a state in which Lawful elves debate issues in
>Parliament with vampire barons!! Player characters have to take many=
 options
>without taking for granted that they are "on the right side"... It's not
>like just going down to the Land of Mordor where the shadows reign to beat
>down the ultimate evil. It looks like a mature setting, and I think it was
>kinda revolution to the idea that FRP campaigns had to follow the steps of
>Tolkien as a manicheistic war of good vs. evil.

        I agree with all this, but you're ignoring, of course, the Master of Hule,
unless he's got a warm and fuzzy side of which I'm not aware.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:57:36 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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My take on the fate of the Thousand Wizards in WotI:

1) Most participated in the bombardment of Glantri City.  The minority who
did not participate fled to various parts of the Known World.

2) Given the relatively small amount of damage done to Glantri City, those
who participated in the bombardment obviously held back numerous spells
and devices meant to save their own skins.

3) Given their relatively high levels and general resourcefulness, most of
the Thousand Wizards indeed survived the war and managed to scatter
all over the Known World region.  A small few managed to return to
Alphatia in time to be obliterated with that continent.

Net result:  When Alphatia sinks, the corpses include a relatively small
number (perhaps a hundred at most) of the Thousand Wizards.  When
Alphatia is reconstituted in the Hollow World, not enough remain for that
body to be a reasonable counterforce to the Empress Eriadna.  As a
result, Eriadna can initially rule unopposed and can recreate the Council
within the Hollow World as she desires.

In the outer world, meanwhile, the Known World is plagued by 800 or so
suddenly homeless high level wizards.  Perhaps half of them eventually
return to the surviving Alphatian territories, while the rest settle in
various
nations in southeastern Brun.  They have an obvious influence on the
nations of Karameikos and the Atruaghin Plateau, and subtler influences
elsewhere.  No nation of southeastern Brun is totally unaffected by the
actions of the surviving Alphatians.

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:07:22 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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In a message dated 2000-10-16 3:49:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

>         I think the Glantrians are pretty practical and would figure this
one
> out pretty quick.
>          But do you mean that the impact exposed veins, or brought the
> adamantite here from off-planet?

The latter.  Since adamantite is mentioned as being of possibly meteoric
origin, any such impact should bring more of that metal to the planet.  Of
course, to exploit that new resource any civilized Mystaran nation will
have to deal with the goblinoids who wasted no time in occupying the
new crater created by the Meteor impact.

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:06:37 -0400
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From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
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Well, I did not forget the Master, and I did not mean that there are not
Evil rulers, you can also take the Cult of Idris, the Shadowlord and
so-and-so, but I do not think that the whole of Hule is as simplistic as
pure Evil, it is a Huge territory with different cultures and beliefs... too
bad Hule did not get a GAZ, but I don't think it's all Greatrealm... plus,
as far as TSR materials go, the Master is unique and he seems to govern to
charisma and fear, I wonder if the X4 and X5 modules pointed to a single
dictator or to a dynasty of evil rulers in a wicked evil country, but i tend
to believe the former.

Andr�s

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:15:34 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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At 04:07 10/16/00 EDT, David Knott wrote:

>>          But do you mean that the impact exposed veins, or brought the
>> adamantite here from off-planet?
>
>The latter.  Since adamantite is mentioned as being of possibly meteoric
>origin, any such impact should bring more of that metal to the planet.  Of
>course, to exploit that new resource any civilized Mystaran nation will
>have to deal with the goblinoids who wasted no time in occupying the
>new crater created by the Meteor impact.

        Neat. It'd also be nice to see, say, Jaggar negotiating with adamantite
magnate Kol for mining rights.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:30:47 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      3E:  Undead Glantrian Princes
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I have noticed that the revised versions of Brannart and Morphail still give
them constitution scores -- have those of you who posted those revisions
deliberately decided to ignore the fact that they are undead?

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:44:08 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
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In a message dated 2000-10-16 4:34:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

>         Neat. It'd also be nice to see, say, Jaggar negotiating with
> adamantite magnate Kol for mining rights.

Of course, you should keep in mind that negotiating is not the only
way to "deal with" somebody....

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:54:32 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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> At 08:42 10/16/00 +0200, Agathokles wrote:
>
>         What do you mean? The setting has a number of major NPCs who
more or less
> tower over everyone else. Hell, Bargle the Infamous doesn't even
appear in
> the Ierendi gazetteer -- as well he shouldn't -- but there's a
throwaway
> character in the setting that only works if there's a presumption that
most
> groups will have heard of him and know he's EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL! (Which
isn't
> to say I don't like the character; I intend to use him soon IMC.)
>         Or do you mean that there's a lot of moral grayness in the
setting? That,
> I'd certainly agree with.

I was referring to the moral grayness, but also to the relativy rarity
of stereotypical characters (unless you consider the typically mystaran
stereotype of the "Stefan", of course ;) ).
Sure, Bargle and Ludwig von Hendricks are something of an exception,
being stereotypical villains.
Even in Gaz 1, which is probably the more "standard fantasy" of the
Gazeteers, the presence of stereotypical characters is balanced by the
presence of some "morally grey" NPCs (think Desmond Kelvin, the
Duchess).
I also mean that, while in the eyes of your average Traladaran Alfric
Oderbry and the Black Eagle are definitely evil, the common Thyatian
(especially the non-Karameikan variety) could see them as heroes...
--


        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:21:46 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Seyed Razavi <seyed@SMARTMONKEY.CO.UK>
Subject:      Beyond the Gazateers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi,

As someone whose Known World collection ended with the Gazateers and Dawn of
the Empires boxed set I was wondering if someone could point me to a brief
overview of what the other products say (or a link to one) .  Particularly I
would like to know:

a)  What the hell happens in Wrath of the Immortals?
b)  What happens after AC1000?  All the net books seem to pick up from
AC1014 or something.
c)  What products cover this period?
d)  What are Karmeikos: Kingdom of Adventure, Glantri: Land of Magic and the
Poor Wizard's Almanacs?

I'm sure there is already a site that covers this so a simple link would do.

Seeing the expense in acquiring future Mystara products I'll probably stay
just with the Gazateers but I was wondering what I was missing.

Cheers,

Sid

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:00:43 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001015230543.007945e0@10.1.1.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Beau Yarbrough wrote:

>         Both mithril and adamantite?
>         Are either one mentioned in "Rockhome?"

Nope...

>         I was thinking that one might be found in Highforge instead. Of course,
> after playing the new Spyro Playstation game all weekend, I'm also thinking
> that there need to be large house-sized mushrooms in Mystara, so I might be
> too loopy to be credible.

AFAIK there is only one reference to Mithril in any Mystara product. Its
in the adventure idea section of the Darokin Gaz, where a young man from
the Black Eagle Barony has escaped with a Mithril dagger. This suggests
that there are reserves of Mithril in Karameikos, so some of it could be
present in Highforge. However, it seems that Mithril is even more rare on
Mystara than in Tolkien's Middle-Earth..

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:22:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <MDEPIDOAILNDKNGEDHDOKEKHCAAA.seyed@smartmonkey.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Seyed Razavi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As someone whose Known World collection ended with the Gazateers and Dawn of
> the Empires boxed set I was wondering if someone could point me to a brief
> overview of what the other products say (or a link to one) .  Particularly I
> would like to know:
>
> a)  What the hell happens in Wrath of the Immortals?

A complete timeline was recently posted on this list.
Basically Wrath of the Immortals covers the era 1004-1009 where Immortal
intrigue leads to war, the destruction of Alfheim and the Sinking of
Alphatia.

> b)  What happens after AC1000?  All the net books seem to pick up from
> AC1014 or something.

The Poor Wizards Almanacs and Johuans Almanac covers the years between
1010-1013.

> c)  What products cover this period?

WotI and the PWAs

> d)  What are Karmeikos: Kingdom of Adventure, Glantri: Land of Magic and the
> Poor Wizard's Almanacs?

K:KoA and G:LoM are boxed sets updating Gaz1 and Gaz3 to AC1010 with
AD&D2nd rules.
The PWAs descibe events and countries of Mystara between AC1010-1013.

> Seeing the expense in acquiring future Mystara products I'll probably stay
> just with the Gazateers but I was wondering what I was missing.

The gazetteers are the best ever made for Mystara IMO, but I hear that you
can aquire cheep Mystara stuff on Ebay.

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:48:43 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here is a link to the Timeline in the Official Site:
    http://dnd.starflung.com/timeline.html
--

        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:56:33 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010161258070.12469-100000@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.n o>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 01:00 PM 10/16/00 +0200, you wrote:
>
>AFAIK there is only one reference to Mithril in any Mystara product. Its
>in the adventure idea section of the Darokin Gaz, where a young man from
>the Black Eagle Barony has escaped with a Mithril dagger. This suggests
>that there are reserves of Mithril in Karameikos, so some of it could be
>present in Highforge. However, it seems that Mithril is even more rare on
>Mystara than in Tolkien's Middle-Earth..

In the "Displays of Wealth" section (p. 29) of that Gaz, it also mentions
that Darokinians wear jewelry of "unadorned gold or sometimes mithril".

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:48:52 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Flaemish and Alphatian languages
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hey, I just chanced to think... isn't it that Flaemish and Alphatian
languages are THE SAME (or at least very very closely related dialects)?

In fact they are supposed to be the same people who settled in two different
places not so long ago.

That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both speak the
same language: Flaemish!

What do you think?

Federico
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:59:21 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Benekander problem
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

This is a spoiler: please, those who wish to roleplay WotI read no further;
instead, those who are going to DM it should read.

******************************************************************

Here's another questions for the List:
In a short time I am planning to start DMing WotI to my group.

Well... the first part expects them to trust Benekander and offer themselves
(one of them, that is) in exchange for him into his mirror.

I find it very unlikely that my group of egothistic and paranoid players
(they love to call themselves "of Neutral alignement") would trust him and
agree. This could make the introduction to the second part (Benekander
offering them another job) an extremely uneven event.

How would you put the whole thing another way round and make it either
acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing or else induce
Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage? Please, advise.

Thank you.

Federico
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:51:20 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

> Hey, I just chanced to think... isn't it that Flaemish and Alphatian
> languages are THE SAME (or at least very very closely related
dialects)?
>
> In fact they are supposed to be the same people who settled in two
different
> places not so long ago.

Well... Two millenia ago... just the same time it took for Latin to
become the modern Italian, French, etc.
And keep in mind that we didn't stage interplanar migrations.
When the Flaems escaped from Old Alphatia, they didn't come to Mystara
(they arrived 500 years later, having retired to the Plane of Fire,
probably) while the Alphatians arrived directly.
In these two millennia, the Flaem language probably evolved much, I
suppose due to interaction with creatures of the Plane of Fire and
Mystaran native (Dragons, Thyatians, Antalians, Elves).

> That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both
speak the
> same language: Flaemish!

Glantrians generally speak Thyatian, IMO. Anyway, Blackhill Glantrians
do speak Alphatian.
--

        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:53:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
In-Reply-To:  <B60F8D08.6DA%xen@visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Eric Anondson wrote:

> What makes something "feel Mystaran", and then wouldn't be mistaken as
> Greyhawk or Realms or Dragonlance, or any other typical generic fantasy?

Well, on the cursory level, Mystara is just another high fatasy world.

But that's only at first glance.

What you will notice about Mystara is the fact that Mystara revolves
around the Law/Chaos axis more than Good/Evil. PC's aren't grandiose
adventurers like in the Fogotten Realms, but merely cogs in the intrigues
of "known" worldwide politics. (Ha!) PC's can become rulers of nations, or
find paths to become Gods.

It's a much freer and more civilized world. Many more options, many more
possible lives. It's like the "high fantasy" equivalent to the
renaissance.


Ethan

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:29:56 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Re: [IC] What makes something "Mystara"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Eric Anondson ha scritto:

> What makes something "feel Mystaran", and then wouldn't be mistaken as
> Greyhawk or Realms or Dragonlance, or any other typical generic fantasy?

Hey: Mystara has Thyatis.

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:32:14 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
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Subject:      Re: [IC] What makes something "Mystara"
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>
> I also mean that, while in the eyes of your average Traladaran Alfric
> Oderbry and the Black Eagle are definitely evil, the common Thyatian
> (especially the non-Karameikan variety) could see them as heroes...
> --

Are they not? [surprised expression]
Traladarans...see them...as...EVIL?! [extremely surprised expression]

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:04:50 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Daniel Mayer <daniel.mayer@FHWT.DE>
Subject:      Re: Back
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Hey, Stalker!

These "swords of Wayland" I would be glad to read about. What�s that
"Tome #4" about? The private Tome of Wisdom? :)

If it is a nice article of you, I would be glad to have post in my
e-P.O.Box :)))


bye!
Daniel

The Stalker wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:49:21   scarole@tin.it wrote:
> >Hello! I'm back.
>
> Oh my, you too? We're *both* back it would seem... Hard times are coming... :)
>
> >Glad to see you ignored my article about Nightmare Religion.
> >I'm going to hide in my room and cry, now. 8-)
> >
>
> Don't be so put down by it... I still have to receive a single response to my 'Tomes for the Tome' article in Tome #5 *or* to my 'Swords of Wayland' article in Tome #4 :(   - and I thought I was so creative...
>
> >Glad to be back, though monday I'll be at the University...aaargh!
> >
> >Hopefully I will complete my "Chronicles of Nentsun" before that, and
> >maybe even
> >"Lemuria out of Thyatian Folklore"...I mean, to complete the
> >transcription of several
> >tightly written pages on pc.
> >
>
> Always more Mystara projects that need finishing... Now why does that sound so uncomfortably familiar :)
>
> >Vale!
> >
>
> Pax Vobiscum!
>
>    - The Stalker
>
> Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com
>
> ********************************************************************
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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:53:56 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Seyed Razavi <seyed@SMARTMONKEY.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010161317320.12469-100000@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

> > a)  What the hell happens in Wrath of the Immortals?
>
> A complete timeline was recently posted on this list.
> Basically Wrath of the Immortals covers the era 1004-1009 where Immortal
> intrigue leads to war, the destruction of Alfheim and the Sinking of
> Alphatia.
>

OK, having just read the timeline in the dnd.starflung.com site I'm left
with a whole host of questions which I can't be bothered to ask.  What is it
with TSR and cataclysms???   OK Mystara hasn't become like Dragonlance with
a cataclysm after cataclysm but the whole of WotI seems contrived.  The
sinking of Alphatia may mirror an Atlantis fall from grace but all the crap
around it seems just like the standard crap they pulled on Greyhawk / FR /
Dragonlance.

Luckily, as some will no doubt point out, I don't have to abide by it.  I'll
stick with the Gazateers and develop the campaign the way I want.

The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs, etc)
that would benefit me?

Thanks,

Sid









> > b)  What happens after AC1000?  All the net books seem to pick up from
> > AC1014 or something.
>
> The Poor Wizards Almanacs and Johuans Almanac covers the years between
> 1010-1013.
>
> > c)  What products cover this period?
>
> WotI and the PWAs
>
> > d)  What are Karmeikos: Kingdom of Adventure, Glantri: Land of
> Magic and the
> > Poor Wizard's Almanacs?
>
> K:KoA and G:LoM are boxed sets updating Gaz1 and Gaz3 to AC1010 with
> AD&D2nd rules.
> The PWAs descibe events and countries of Mystara between AC1010-1013.
>
> > Seeing the expense in acquiring future Mystara products I'll
> probably stay
> > just with the Gazateers but I was wondering what I was missing.
>
> The gazetteers are the best ever made for Mystara IMO, but I hear that you
> can aquire cheep Mystara stuff on Ebay.
>
> H�vard
>
> Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
> http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc
>
> "Would it not be easier in this case for the government
>  to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht
>
> ********************************************************************
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> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
>
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:59:40 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      3E NPC- Kelter Zerben, 1009 AC
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Disillusioned, Kelter abandons his faith (losing access to clerical turning
and spellcasting), and resumes progress as a fighter.

Kelter Zerben, c.1009 AC:

Fighter 7/Cleric 5 (ex-cleric, no faith)
Human, Neutral Good

Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14 (+2)
Con 13 (+1)
Int 13 (+1)
Wis 16 (+3)
Cha 16 (+3)

76 hp; Init +6; Speed 20; AC 20 (Chain Mail +8, Dex +2)
Melee +14/+9/+4; Ranged +12/+7/+2
Greatsword +17/+12/+7 (2d6+8, 17-20)
Longsword +15(19)/+10(+14)/+5(+9) (1d8+5/9, 19-20)
Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +9

Languages: Thyatian Common
Skills: Climb +10, Concentration +6, Diplomacy +7, Handle Animal +10, Heal
+7, Jump +10, Knowledge (religion) +5, Ride +10, Spellcraft +5, Swim +10.
Feats: Combat Casting, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Extra Turning, Great
Cleave, Improved Critical: Greatsword, Improved Iniative, Power Attack,
Weapon Focus: Greatsword, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword

Equipment: Chain Mail +3, Greatsword +2, Longsword +1 (+5 vs. undead)

(Alternatively, you could give him a couple of levels of some sort of
Prestige class for his gladiatorial training)

In any case, I feel pretty sorry for the pathetic Clerics of Balthac that
run into this vengeful guy...

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:24:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
In-Reply-To:  <F307Luwi23mZaendQxw00002ee0@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:48 PM 10/16/00 CEST, you wrote:
>
>In fact they are supposed to be the same people who settled in two different
>places not so long ago.

True, but the Flaemish also spent centuries wandering the outer planes
and/or other worlds before finally settling down on Mystara, while the
other Alphatians had centuries of dealing with, incorporating, etc.
Mystaran languages and cultures into their own culture. Not to mention just
general linguistic changes over time.

>That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both speak the
>same language: Flaemish!
>
>What do you think?

I'd say there are definitely still similarities ("Flaemish" is probably
considered to be "Old Alphatian" in many respects), but if anything,
Flaemish should more properly be called Alphatian.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:29:05 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Benekander problem
In-Reply-To:  <F135WZuTsbg8dOKiUWU00002de6@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 02:59 PM 10/16/00 CEST, you wrote:
>
>How would you put the whole thing another way round and make it either
>acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing or else induce
>Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage? Please, advise.

You could always change the adventure so that Benny doesn't have to trade
places with anyone, but either a) have some NPC "accidentally" or purposely
make the switch instead, and have the PCs help Benekander deal with his
sudden freedom or something (thus ingratiating themselves to him), or b)
have some sort of accident free Benekander from the mirror, but sans body
(ie, in Incorporeal Form) so that he appears to be a ghost. He can still
flee (like the adventure suggests) as he adjusts to his state, but then he
can later come back to the PCs for help in trying to find himself a more
"permanent" form (the PCs being the only beings he has any real connection
with, having witnessed his rebirth). It's a good way to make the PCs think
that he's just a ghost or undead or something, and not suspect that he is
in fact an Immortal.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:57:43 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Zyxl--history
In-Reply-To:  <000901c0364e$cfd0f1e0$6232140a@friendly>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:22 PM 10/14/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks!  Yeah, he could definitely have something to do with lupins.  And
>the suggestion you gave is intriguing.

Just looked into it a bit, and St. Clebard- patron of loyalty, fidelity,
and family- seems to be the most appropriate choice for Zyxl among the
Lupin folk. :)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:33:14 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Mischa E Gelman <megst19+@PITT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the Creation of the
              Mystara Online Archive
In-Reply-To:  <001d01c036cb$58951480$a2a210ac@resnet.uky.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Sounds like D&DWorlds may have potential to be useful, wouldn't it be best
to try to copy over the material from Shawn's site so that we don't have
to go through two mutually exclusive sources? Also, if the two sites
ensued that they added the same material more or less, it would only make
the life of Mystara fans easier. As is, I don't see many people writing
specifically for D&DWorlds when we already have a nice established
archive, but neither do I want to see the presence of an official site go
to waste.

- Mischa

You won't find average Americans on the left or on the right. You'll find
them at K-mart - former Georgia Gov. Zell Miller

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:37:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Magical materials in the 3E DMG
In-Reply-To:  <8f.1d4cfc7.271c19d8@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 04:44 10/16/2000 EDT, David Knott wrote:
>In a message dated 2000-10-16 4:34:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
>writes:
>
>>         Neat. It'd also be nice to see, say, Jaggar negotiating with
>> adamantite magnate Kol for mining rights.
>
>Of course, you should keep in mind that negotiating is not the only
>way to "deal with" somebody....

        Given the way the humanoids kicked Glantrian ass all over the map during
WotI, I don't think antagonizing a nominal ally -- and a fellow friend of
Dolores -- would be a wise move on his part, even if he is buffered by the
rest of the nation.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:40:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
In-Reply-To:  <G2IM2W$IRQbwqLMhmZW6jrvyfKMSvTp8SiyaDRR3axLoe1pKS5CouB@lib
              ero.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:54 10/16/2000 +0200, Agathokles wrote:

>I was referring to the moral grayness, but also to the relativy rarity
>of stereotypical characters (unless you consider the typically mystaran
>stereotype of the "Stefan", of course ;) ).

        Which, of course, goes out the window if you watch his behavior during WotI.

>Sure, Bargle and Ludwig von Hendricks are something of an exception,
>being stereotypical villains.

        Although there's also a layer of humor to their portrayals, which keeps
them from being the anonymous bad guys of, say, "Lord of the Rings." (Puts
up flame-resistant shieldling.)

>Even in Gaz 1, which is probably the more "standard fantasy" of the
>Gazeteers, the presence of stereotypical characters is balanced by the
>presence of some "morally grey" NPCs (think Desmond Kelvin, the
>Duchess).

        I'd go so far as to say that both Olivia and Desmond are probably villains
by deed, if not by intent.

>I also mean that, while in the eyes of your average Traladaran Alfric
>Oderbry and the Black Eagle are definitely evil, the common Thyatian
>(especially the non-Karameikan variety) could see them as heroes...

        I could see that with Alfric -- at least amongst the most militant
Thyatians -- but any informed person, I'd hope, would see the Black Eagle
as having been engaged in genocide.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:55:59 +0300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Solmyr <solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Jacob Skytte wrote:
>
> -there is no single �ber-dude/nation/item/whatever to end them all.

Unless, of course, you listen to fans of Alphatia :P

--
******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
solmyr@kolumbus.fi
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:56:30 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <MDEPIDOAILNDKNGEDHDOKEKHCAAA.seyed@smartmonkey.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:21 10/16/2000 +0100, Seyed Razavi wrote:
>Hi,
>
>As someone whose Known World collection ended with the Gazateers and Dawn of
>the Empires boxed set I was wondering if someone could point me to a brief
>overview of what the other products say (or a link to one) .  Particularly I
>would like to know:

        I don't know if there is such a link.

>a)  What the hell happens in Wrath of the Immortals?

        Oh, everything. Alphatia sinks, Glantri gets a humanoid prince after
invasion and a big honking meteor smashes two principalities, Karameikos
gets its independence, the Master invades and is pushed back and more ...

>b)  What happens after AC1000?  All the net books seem to pick up from
>AC1014 or something.

        In comparison, not as much. New Sheriff for the Shires, the Black Eagle
gets ousted and escapes justice.

>c)  What products cover this period?

        WotI goes through, I believe, 1010. Then there's three Poor Wizard's
Almanacs, followed by Joshuan's Almanac, which covers 1013.

>d)  What are Karmeikos: Kingdom of Adventure, Glantri: Land of Magic and the
>Poor Wizard's Almanacs?

        The first are 2E boxed sets that cover much of the same ground as the
gazetteers, but are set in 1012 and 1013 and somewhat update the setting.

>Seeing the expense in acquiring future Mystara products I'll probably stay
>just with the Gazateers but I was wondering what I was missing.

        Well, WotC will be putting many Mystara and D&D (seperately ...) products
up as free PDFs in the next few months, along with a few as cash downloads.
But at $2.99 or so, they'll still be cheaper than eBay.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:03:02 +0300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Solmyr <solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Beau Yarbrough wrote:
>
>         I agree with all this, but you're ignoring, of course, the Master of Hule,
> unless he's got a warm and fuzzy side of which I'm not aware.
>
WHAT?! You are not aware of our Master's gentle, caring side? You do not
know that Huleans are prosperous, happy people living together in peace
and harmony? And not just the humans, but all races live in Hule,
without any conflicts that plague other, less developed nations. And for
all their happiness the people of Hule thank Hosadus, the great Master,
who has revealed unto us the life of greatness.

Alrethus, Scribe of the Master

--
******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
solmyr@kolumbus.fi
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:02:02 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010161317320.12469-100000@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.n o>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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At 13:22 10/16/2000 +0200, H=E5vard wrote:

>The gazetteers are the best ever made for Mystara IMO, but I hear that you
>can aquire cheep Mystara stuff on Ebay.

        Define "cheap." "Minrothad Guilds," "Rockhome" and "Orcs of Thar"
routinely go for more than $30. (Yes, I'm bitter.) But the boxed 2E stuff
can go for under $12, shrinkwrapped, if you're patient. WotI and "Champions
of Mystara," alas, don't go for that cheap.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:05:39 +0300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Solmyr <solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI>
Subject:      Re: 3E:  Undead Glantrian Princes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

David Knott wrote:
>
> I have noticed that the revised versions of Brannart and Morphail still give
> them constitution scores -- have those of you who posted those revisions
> deliberately decided to ignore the fact that they are undead?
>
I wasn't aware that undead didn't have Con scores in 3e. It seems rather
odd that they don't, though - Con may not represent their physical
health (they are dead), but it can still represent their resilience and
body structure. Plus, they need something to give them hit point bonuses
per hit die, and affect Con-related skills.

--
******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
solmyr@kolumbus.fi
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:08:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
In-Reply-To:  <F307Luwi23mZaendQxw00002ee0@hotmail.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 14:48 10/16/2000 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote:
>Hey, I just chanced to think... isn't it that Flaemish and Alphatian
>languages are THE SAME (or at least very very closely related dialects)?

        "Closely related" could mean as close as Dutch and Flemish, or it could
mean Dutch or German.

>In fact they are supposed to be the same people who settled in two different
>places not so long ago.
>
>That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both speak the
>same language: Flaemish!
>
>What do you think?

        There's a long history of people with the same, or similar, cultures
fighting bloody, awful, stupid wars.
        Why, look at our Middle East.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:09:37 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
In-Reply-To:  <G2IZTK$I4QLw2bOmmZW6jrvyfKMSvTp8SiyaDof4axLoe1pKS5CouB@lib
              ero.it>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 15:51 10/16/2000 +0200, Agathokles wrote:

>Glantrians generally speak Thyatian, IMO. Anyway, Blackhill Glantrians
>do speak Alphatian.

        Or they did. The last thing most of them said was "what the hell is that
up in the sky?"

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:14:08 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <MDEPIDOAILNDKNGEDHDOIEKKCAAA.seyed@smartmonkey.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 15:53 10/16/2000 +0100, Seyed Razavi wrote:

>OK, having just read the timeline in the dnd.starflung.com site I'm left
>with a whole host of questions which I can't be bothered to ask.  What is it
>with TSR and cataclysms???   OK Mystara hasn't become like Dragonlance with
>a cataclysm after cataclysm but the whole of WotI seems contrived.  The
>sinking of Alphatia may mirror an Atlantis fall from grace but all the crap
>around it seems just like the standard crap they pulled on Greyhawk / FR /
>Dragonlance.

        Well, on Oerth, their cataclysms aren't really all that recent. The Rain
of Colorless Fire and Invoked Devestation set the stage for the current
world, not changed an active playing environment.
        I'll grant that Krynn is out of control and that some of the stuff that
happened to Toril seems ill-advised from a non-player's point of view.

>The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs, etc)
>that would benefit me?

        Lots of cultural details, interesting events that happen on different
dates that you can drop into your campaign to add the feeling of it being a
living, breathing world, et cetera. Nothing earth shattering, but nice, IMO.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:20:29 -0400
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From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Solmyr wrote:

> Jacob Skytte wrote:
> >
> > -there is no single =FCber-dude/nation/item/whatever to end them all.
>=20
> Unless, of course, you listen to fans of Alphatia :P

But even then, Alphatia isn't of the "uber" character of an Ed Greenwood
"Elminster"-type.=20

Ethan

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:22:05 -0400
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From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Beau wrote:

> routinely go for more than $30. (Yes, I'm bitter.) But the boxed 2E stuff
> can go for under $12, shrinkwrapped, if you're patient. WotI and "Champions

Mostly because the 2e stuff is crap :)

IMHO, so as to not start a war.


Ethan

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:23:28 -0400
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Alan Shutko <ats@ACM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
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Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM> writes:

> But the boxed 2E stuff can go for under $12, shrinkwrapped, if
> you're patient.

And then there's KayBee, where I just got Mark of Amber for $1.49.
The selection may be limited, but it's always cheap!

--
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors!
25 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes, 15 seconds till we run away.
Variables don't; constants aren't.

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:24:54 -0700
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      What makes something "Mystara"
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At 19:55 10/16/2000 +0300, Solmyr wrote:
>Jacob Skytte wrote:
>>
>> -there is no single =FCber-dude/nation/item/whatever to end them all.
>
>Unless, of course, you listen to fans of Alphatia :P

        Fortunately, their voices don't carry as well from underwater.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:27:10 -0700
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From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
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At 20:03 10/16/2000 +0300, Solmyr wrote:

>WHAT?! You are not aware of our Master's gentle, caring side? You do not
>know that Huleans are prosperous, happy people living together in peace
>and harmony? And not just the humans, but all races live in Hule,
>without any conflicts that plague other, less developed nations. And for
>all their happiness the people of Hule thank Hosadus, the great Master,
>who has revealed unto us the life of greatness.

        I stand corrected. Or at least out of reach.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:29:12 -0700
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      3E Undead Glantrian Princes
In-Reply-To:  <39EB3563.41DEDD13@kolumbus.fi>
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At 20:05 10/16/2000 +0300, Solmyr wrote:

>I wasn't aware that undead didn't have Con scores in 3e. It seems rather
>odd that they don't, though - Con may not represent their physical
>health (they are dead), but it can still represent their resilience and
>body structure. Plus, they need something to give them hit point bonuses
>per hit die, and affect Con-related skills.

        In 3E, most of the things that require Con checks, undead are
automatically immune to. And the stats in 3E don't mean precisely what they
did in other versions (or what they were assumed to).
        If you have access to October's "Dragon," check the build-a-3E-monster
article for rundowns on what undead automatically can do.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:42:33 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010161321250.13701-100000@antares.phys.cle
              mson.edu>
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At 13:22 10/16/2000 -0400, SteelAngel wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Beau wrote:
>
>> routinely go for more than $30. (Yes, I'm bitter.) But the boxed 2E stuff
>> can go for under $12, shrinkwrapped, if you're patient. WotI and "Champions
>
>Mostly because the 2e stuff is crap :)

        Leave the Survival Guides out of this.
        And price on eBay doesn't really mean much concerning value: The trail
maps go for over $40 typically, a price i think most would find hard to
justify.

>IMHO, so as to not start a war.

        Of course.
        (Invades Ethan's house.)

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:13:01 -0400
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001016104233.007d3ca0@lby3.com>
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Beau wrote:

>         Of course.
>         (Invades Ethan's house.)

Agh! Luckily I'm still a 36th level oD&D mage, 9 3rd level spells :)



Ethan

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:17:11 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
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Seyed Razavi <seyed@SMARTMONKEY.CO.UK> wrote:

> The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs, =
etc)
> that would benefit me?

I can't see how you can't benefit from the Poor Wizard's Almanacs... =
They contain lots of nice geographic overviews and interesting tidbits =
of information. But best of all they are shock full of great adventure =
ideas in the Events section. So, a lot of it builds on events from WotI; =
still I find it very useful, and a great read. I, for one, actually =
value my PWAs higher than most of my other Mystara stuff, but maybe =
that's just me...

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:25:57 -0700
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.10.10010161612230.13701-100000@antares.phys.cle
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At 16:13 10/16/2000 -0400, SteelAngel wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Beau wrote:

>>         Of course.
>>         (Invades Ethan's house.)

>Agh! Luckily I'm still a 36th level oD&D mage, 9 3rd level spells :)

        Ha! I'm 20th level 3E, which means I've got feats out the wazoo!

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:21:34 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
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Beau wrote:
>
> At 15:51 10/16/2000 +0200, Agathokles wrote:
>
> >Glantrians generally speak Thyatian, IMO. Anyway, Blackhill Glantrians
> >do speak Alphatian.
>
>         Or they did. The last thing most of them said was "what the hell is that
> up in the sky?"

Well, most of them died, but some, especially in the eastern region,
survived. And some did not live in the Principality, but in the Free
Provinces.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:13:39 +0200
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From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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>        I agree with all this, but you're ignoring, of course, the Master
of Hule,
unless he's got a warm and fuzzy side of which I'm not aware.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

Yeah, outside of the Known World there are a few exceptions, the Karimari
are all goog guys, and Denagoth is a really dark and sinisterly evil place.
But mostly, most nations are moraly diverse and there is not Evil vs Good
megaconflict.

Morphail

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:49:56 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Help Wanted:  D&DWorlds Announces the
              Creation of the             Mystara Online Archive
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> At 13:49 15/10/00 +0200, you wrote:
> >Aren't all the objectives of this website already achieved with Shawn
> >Stanley's website? (www.dnd.starflung.com)
> >What can D&DWorlds offer the MML contributers that the aforementioned
site
> >does not offer?
>
> at the worst it appears to be yet another way to get your work out there,
> and since Ohad you're one of the more prolific authors that's up for you
to
> think about whether that's a good thing or not.
>
> shawn stanley
> http://dnd.starflung.com
>

Well it's a good thing if all the posts are kept in both archives, but I
hate for a reader to search one archive, find a few results and be
content/not content, not knowing that the other archive has more on the
subject.
If whatever I need to do to get things published is writing to wither forum
(or better yet, right here on the MML) I'll be happy.
If that is what's going to be done than it is a blessing. Im not into all
the technical mumbo-jumbo that is involved like Mr. Hoffman probably is, but
if that can be done technicaly and no one is going to feel bad he is not
getting paid for his hard works than its great. I also liked Micheal
Moriss's response as to the advantages of crossreference with other
campaigns/ game worlds.
Thanks for all the anwers.

Morphail
(Ohad Shaham)

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:32:21 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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Beau wrote:
>
> >Even in Gaz 1, which is probably the more "standard fantasy" of the
> >Gazeteers, the presence of stereotypical characters is balanced by the
> >presence of some "morally grey" NPCs (think Desmond Kelvin, the
> >Duchess).
>
>         I'd go so far as to say that both Olivia and Desmond are probably villains
> by deed, if not by intent.

What did they do? I don't remember them as being engaged in "Evil"
activities.

> >I also mean that, while in the eyes of your average Traladaran Alfric
> >Oderbry and the Black Eagle are definitely evil, the common Thyatian
> >(especially the non-Karameikan variety) could see them as heroes...
>
>         I could see that with Alfric -- at least amongst the most militant
> Thyatians -- but any informed person, I'd hope, would see the Black Eagle
> as having been engaged in genocide.

Stefan didn't. The average Thyatian didn't too, or at least they didn't
consider it an evil act, otherwise he would have been removed even if he
was the Duke's cousin.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:37:54 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
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>Well... Two millenia ago... just the same time it took for Latin to
become the modern Italian, French, etc.
And keep in mind that we didn't stage interplanar migrations.
When the Flaems escaped from Old Alphatia, they didn't come to Mystara
(they arrived 500 years later, having retired to the Plane of Fire,
probably) while the Alphatians arrived directly.
In these two millennia, the Flaem language probably evolved much, I
suppose due to interaction with creatures of the Plane of Fire and
>Mystaran native (Dragons, Thyatians, Antalians, Elves).

And of course, as posts on ancient history of Alphatia (by MMLers, not
canon) show us, the Alphatian continent was not empty when they found it.
The Alphatian  language IMO absorbed a lot of Yannivey and others.
More than 2000 years in totally different enviroments. IMO they can barely
see the resemblence in 1000AC.

> That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both
speak the
> same language: Flaemish!

>Glantrians generally speak Thyatian, IMO.

It is also said in GAZ3 IIRC, and all net products agree on that. It is also
said in the Gaz that IN the different principalities themselves people talk
in various languages.


Morphail

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:03:41 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Valerias.. WHY?
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> Other ideas? Coal engine for Matter? And what for Thought?
> However, it could be a good idea, but only if we carefully work it out.
> And I have too much to do, in this period.
>
a spelljammer style helm, as it uses the power of thought.
mortus.

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:57:43 -0400
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
In-Reply-To:  <01bf01c037b6$a7ea4e60$0101c80a@1>
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2000, Shaham Ilan wrote:

> Yeah, outside of the Known World there are a few exceptions, the Karimari
> are all goog guys, and Denagoth is a really dark and sinisterly evil place.

Karimari? Good? Not is you aren't Karimari! They'll make you pull
hari-kiri, those Karimari.

And Denagoth isn't so bad. It's rugged and has a bad feel to it, but it
isn't "evil".


Ethan

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:56:12 -0700
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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At 21:32 10/16/2000 +0000, Agathokles wrote:

>>         I'd go so far as to say that both Olivia and Desmond are
probably villains
>> by deed, if not by intent.
>
>What did they do? I don't remember them as being engaged in "Evil"
>activities.

        According to KKoA, Olivia actively seeks to shift the power center in the
kingdom to herself. Treason. And Desmond is engaged in similar activities.

>>         I could see that with Alfric -- at least amongst the most militant
>> Thyatians -- but any informed person, I'd hope, would see the Black Eagle
>> as having been engaged in genocide.
>
>Stefan didn't. The average Thyatian didn't too, or at least they didn't
>consider it an evil act, otherwise he would have been removed even if he
>was the Duke's cousin.

        Stefan was unaware/disbelieved that Ludwig was involved in genocide
against the halflings. Once he became aware of it, he let the Five Shires
invade and take out the Black Eagle, going so far -- according to KKoA --
to use military force to keep the Black Eagle from escaping.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:39:19 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards

>> 2) Given the relatively small amount of damage done to Glantri City, those who participated in the bombardment obviously held back numerous spells and devices meant to save their own skins. <<

But those would be exactly what you describe: spells and devices (magical) - meaning that when magic fails after the activation of the Doomsday Device, this results in a problem with #2:

>> 3) Given their relatively high levels and general resourcefulness, most of the Thousand Wizards indeed survived the war and managed to scatter all over the Known World region.  <<

They land (fall, really), into the middle of hostile territory. Their resorces (resourcefulness) are largely their spells. They're going to fall back on Stoneskin, Fire Shield, Contingency, Protection from Normal Missiles, Force Field, Bracers of Defense AC 0 and Cloaks of Protection and the like to protect themselves while in hostile territory. Oh, wait: none of that works when magic fails.

So they land (fall, really) in the middle of hostile territory. Angry hostile territory. They are now AC 10 or AC 9, even squads of 1st level guys can fill them with arrows.

Take a look at Castle Amber, and even the high level mages in there. One look and the first thing that strikes one is their low hit points; they absolutely rely upon magic as their main means of resourcefulness. These are not thieves that can hide in the shadows to escape; nor are they going to find many friends among the local population to shield them. They can't, Conan-style, cut a swath of destruction through the population and escape by sheer brawn and a strong sword arm.

Mages are powerful, but they're powerful in magic. Without magic, they have assets, but when surrounded by a rabid nation out for their blood. . .

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:46:36 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      WotI Synopsis

Someone asked what happened during WotI so I thought I'd repost this:

 Quick run-down:

 Spring 1004: Revolt in Thyatis. Thyatian forces effectiveness undermined by Valerias (Ring of Fire).

 Spring 1004: An Alphatian spy in Glantri is found dead.

 Summer 1004: Alphatia issues a proclamation accusing the Glantrian Great School of Magic of practicing forbidden magic and consorting with Entropics.  Glantri responds with bemusement.

 Summer 1004: Torenal killed by Entropic agents (Brotherhood of the Shadow), framing Glantrians for the crime. Eriadna outraged.

 Summer 1004: Heldannic Clerics killed in Ethengar after behaving badly.

 Summer 1004: Glantrian "assassins" escape custody in Alphatia.

 Fall 1004: Glantrians killed by Entropic agents (Brotherhood of the Shadow again) in Glantri, framing Alphatians for the crimes.

 Fall 1004: Thyatis warns Alphatia to keep their mits off Glantri.

 Fall 1004: Heldannic Knights attack Ethengar.

 Fall 1004: Temples of Asterius burned in Alphatia, burnings initiated by Entropics (Brotherhood of the Shadow again), once again framing Glantrians for doing so.

 Winter 1004: Escaped Glantrians accused of murdering Torenal reach Aasla, steal a skyship to escape from Alphatia, burning others to cause confusion and prevent pursuit. Fire spreads into a conflagration that destroys Aasla. Alphatia outraged, naturally.

 Spring 1005: Eriadna, after investigating the ruins of Aasla and determining that the Glantrians set the fire, declares war on Glantri. Glantri declares war on Alphatia, as does Heldann and Thyatis.

 Spring 1005: The Master of Hule occupies Sind.

 Summer 1005: Empires build forces on the Isle of Dawn, Norwold in turmoil (wars).

 Summer 1005: Alphatia sends monsters to terrorize Glantri (via teleportation and summoning).

 Fall 1005: Alphatia captures West Portage from Thyatis, as Thyatian forces are still weakened by the debilitating effects of Valerias's interferance (Ring of Fire).

 Winter 1005: Desert Nomads invade Darokin. Run X10, "Red Arrow, Black Shield".

 Spring 1006: Glantrians conduct sabotage in Alphatia/Sundsvall (monsters and magic, hit and run terrorism).

 Spring 1006: Karameikos Sells out: Stefan signs treaty with Alphatia promising not to help his friend Thincol in the war, in exchange for which Alphatia promises to build and help staff a magical college in Karameikos. Stefan declares himself King, sends forces to help Darokin fight off the Master.

 Spring 1006: Master is Hammered in Darokin as Karameikan, Shires, Alfheim troops march in to lift the siege of Darokin City and repulse his armies.

 Summer 1006: Master's Revenge, a meteor lands on northern Darokin, affecting mostly Glantri however; two principalities in Glantri destroyed (Blackstone & Caurenze).

 Fall 1006: Twisted trees in Alfheim: Shadow elves take over Alfheim, Alfheim elves become refugees, fleeing towards Wendar and Karameikos.

 Fall 1006: Dwarves go turtle in Rockhome, sealing up their cities and going underground for remainder of the war.

 Winter 1006: Ethengar & Heldann at war.

 Winter 1006: Alphatian forces begin siege of Redstone.

 Winter 1006: Ylari raid Biazzan in Thyatis.

 Spring 1007: Ethengari swarm over Heldann, put Frieberg to siege. Also spill over borders into Vestland & Soderfjord (hey, I had forgotten that part).

 Spring 1007: Heldann & Thyatis sign treaty of alliance.

 Summer 1007: Thar looks to Glantri (Valerias/Ring of Fire influence again), Broken Lands humanoids invade, put Glantri City under siege.

 Summer 1007: Newkirk and Redstone fall to Alphatian advance.

 Fall 1007: Ylari withdraw from Thyatis. Stalemate on the northern "head" of the Isle of Dawn.

 Fall 1007: Alfheim is no more: all Alfheimers now refugees, Shadow Elves in control.

 Winter 1007: Plague caused by war hits Freiburg in Heldann, spreads.

 Winter 1007: Ochalea & Pearl Islands declare independence from Thyatis due to Illsundal (Ring of Fire) interfierence.

 Winter 1007: Elven refugees from Alfheim winter in Cruth mountains.

 Spring 1008: Stalemate on IoD broken when Zaar of Helskir betrays Thyatis in return for the title of King from Eriadna and the hand of Thincol's daughter, Asteriela. We're supposed to believe it is a "love match". Right.

 Spring 1008: Shires re-enforce Darokin to keep humanoids bottled up in Crater.

 Spring 1008: Plague in Heldann intensifies, spreads into Vestland, Soderfjord, and northern Ylaruam. Ethengari withdraw.

 Spring 1008: Elves reach Karameikos. Stefan generously gives them dominions in the monster-infested forests of Dymrack.

 Summer 1008: Plague reaches Glantri, is devistating due to lack of Clerical magic.  Glantrians temporarily recind restrictions on Clerics in effort to fight plague.

 Summer 1008: "Sideshow Bob" excersise of the Heldannic Knights continue; they go into Ethengar to slaughter some Ethengari, ignoring the main war.

 Summer 1008: Thyatian and Alphatian forces clash in Sea of Dawn, RAF vs Skyships and Fleets vs Fleets. Heavy casualties on both sides, Alphatians forced to withdraw back to IoD, thwarted in effort to invade Thyatis.

 Fall 1008: Ethengari slaughter some Alfheim refugees headed for Wendar. Reason? None. Result? Some of the elves contract the plague.

 Fall 1009: Rad (Fellowship of the Star) grows desperate, begins working on Doomsday Weapon to harness the Radiance.

 Winter 1009: Thar, thwarted in effort to take Glantri City, move south into Darokin, crushed by Darows, Shires, and Karameikos.

 Winter 1009: Thwarted in their effort to invade Thyatis directly, the Alphatians invade Ylaruam instead, capturing Cubia, and begin to march south.

 Spring 1009: Heldannic Knights help beat up on pathetic Thar.

 Spring 1009: Thyatis requests aid from allies and local nations, gets only tolken aid from allies (HKs busy elsewhere, thumping Thar, Glantri busy with own problems) and none from other powers.
 Alphatians capture Fort Zendrol.

 Summer 1009: Alphatians overun Tel Akbir.

 Fall 1009: Alfheim Elves reach Wendar at last, taking the plague into it with them. Yippie!

 Fall 1009: Bloody battles between Alphatians and Thyatians in Thyatis; Alphatians bring in fresh troops to replace casualties, Thyatians reduced to resorting to old men and youths in desperate effort to hold Alphatians back. Alphatian war machine grinds over Thyatis in war of attrition.

 Fall 1009: Thyatis sues for peace with Alphatia as Alphatian forces near Thyatis City.

 Fall 1009: Rad (Fellowship of the Star) activates Doomsday Device, destroying Sundsvall. (First) Week Without Magic follows. As a result, Eriadna killed, Zandor becomes Emperor. Yay! (NOT)

 Winter 1009: Zandor convenes the Grand Council of Alphatia, orders them to either go blast Glantri City into rubble or go into exile. Most submit to his order, others (like Tylion/"Terari") go into exile instead. This is when Tylion/"Terari" goes to Karameikos to become head of their school of magic.

 Winter 1009: The Grand Council guys teleport to Glantri City and begin to bombard it from the air. Rad (Fellowship of the Star) activates Doomsday Device in effort to save his nation. War ends.

 Winter 1009: As a result of activating the Doomsday Device, Alphatia sinks. End of WotI. Later Events detailed in the First PWA and subsiquent Almanacs.

 ********************************************************************

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:05:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      WotI Synopsis

Someone asked what happened in WotI, so I thought I'd repost this:


 Quick run-down:

 Spring 1004: Revolt in Thyatis. Thyatian forces effectiveness undermined by
 Valerias (Ring of Fire).

 Spring 1004: An Alphatian spy in Glantri is found dead.

 Summer 1004: Alphatia issues a proclamation accusing the Glantrian Great
 School of Magic of practicing forbidden magic and consorting with Entropics.
 Glantri responds with bemusement.

 Summer 1004: Torenal killed by Entropic agents (Brotherhood of the Shadow),
 framing Glantrians for the crime. Eriadna outraged.

 Summer 1004: Heldannic Clerics killed in Ethengar after behaving badly.

 Summer 1004: Glantrian "assassins" escape custody in Alphatia.

 Fall 1004: Glantrians killed by Entropic agents (Brotherhood of the Shadow
 again) in Glantri, framing Alphatians for the crimes.

 Fall 1004: Thyatis warns Alphatia to keep their mits off Glantri.

 Fall 1004: Heldannic Knights attack Ethengar.

 Fall 1004: Temples of Asterius burned in Alphatia, burnings initiated by
 Entropics (Brotherhood of the Shadow again), once again framing Glantrians for
 doing so.

 Winter 1004: Escaped Glantrians accused of murdering Torenal reach Aasla,
 steal a skyship to escape from Alphatia, burning others to cause confusion and
 prevent pursuit. Fire spreads into a conflagration that destroys Aasla.
 Alphatia outraged, naturally.

 Spring 1005: Eriadna, after investigating the ruins of Aasla and determining
 that the Glantrians set the fire, declares war on Glantri. Glantri declares
 war on Alphatia, as does Heldann and Thyatis.

 Spring 1005: The Master of Hule occupies Sind.

 Summer 1005: Empires build forces on the Isle of Dawn, Norwold in turmoil
 (wars).

 Summer 1005: Alphatia sends monsters to terrorize Glantri (via teleportation
 and summoning).

 Fall 1005: Alphatia captures West Portage from Thyatis, as Thyatian forces are
 still weakened by the debilitating effects of Valerias's interferance (Ring of
 Fire).

 Winter 1005: Desert Nomads invade Darokin. Run X10, "Red Arrow, Black Shield".

 Spring 1006: Glantrians conduct sabotage in Alphatia/Sundsvall (monsters and
 magic, hit and run terrorism).

 Spring 1006: Karameikos Sells out: Stefan signs treaty with Alphatia promising
 not to help his friend Thincol in the war, in exchange for which Alphatia
 promises to build and help staff a magical college in Karameikos. Stefan
 declares himself King, sends forces to help Darokin fight off the Master.

 Spring 1006: Master is Hammered in Darokin as Karameikan, Shires, Alfheim
 troops march in to lift the siege of Darokin City and repulse his armies.

 Summer 1006: Master's Revenge, a meteor lands on northern Darokin, affecting
 mostly Glantri however; two principalities in Glantri destroyed (Blackstone &
 Caurenze).

 Fall 1006: Twisted trees in Alfheim: Shadow elves take over Alfheim, Alfheim
 elves become refugees, fleeing towards Wendar and Karameikos.

 Fall 1006: Dwarves go turtle in Rockhome, sealing up their cities and going
 underground for remainder of the war.

 Winter 1006: Ethengar & Heldann at war.

 Winter 1006: Alphatian forces begin siege of Redstone.

 Winter 1006: Ylari raid Biazzan in Thyatis.

 Spring 1007: Ethengari swarm over Heldann, put Frieberg to siege. Also spill
 over borders into Vestland & Soderfjord (hey, I had forgotten that part).

 Spring 1007: Heldann & Thyatis sign treaty of alliance.

 Summer 1007: Thar looks to Glantri (Valerias/Ring of Fire influence again),
 Broken Lands humanoids invade, put Glantri City under siege.

 Summer 1007: Newkirk and Redstone fall to Alphatian advance.

 Fall 1007: Ylari withdraw from Thyatis. Stalemate on the northern "head" of
 the Isle of Dawn.

 Fall 1007: Alfheim is no more: all Alfheimers now refugees, Shadow Elves in
 control.

 Winter 1007: Plague caused by war hits Freiburg in Heldann, spreads.

 Winter 1007: Ochalea & Pearl Islands declare independence from Thyatis due to
 Illsundal (Ring of Fire) interfierence.

 Winter 1007: Elven refugees from Alfheim winter in Cruth mountains.

 Spring 1008: Stalemate on IoD broken when Zaar of Helskir betrays Thyatis in
 return for the title of King from Eriadna and the hand of Thincol's daughter,
 Asteriela. We're supposed to believe it is a "love match". Right.

 Spring 1008: Shires re-enforce Darokin to keep humanoids bottled up in Crater.

 Spring 1008: Plague in Heldann intensifies, spreads into Vestland, Soderfjord,
 and northern Ylaruam. Ethengari withdraw.

 Spring 1008: Elves reach Karameikos. Stefan generously gives them dominions in
 the monster-infested forests of Dymrack.

 Summer 1008: Plague reaches Glantri, is devistating due to lack of Clerical
 magic. Glantrians temporarily recind restrictions on Clerics in effort to
 fight plague.

 Summer 1008: "Sideshow Bob" excersise of the Heldannic Knights continue; they
 go into Ethengar to slaughter some Ethengari, ignoring the main war.

 Summer 1008: Thyatian and Alphatian forces clash in Sea of Dawn, RAF vs
 Skyships and Fleets vs Fleets. Heavy casualties on both sides, Alphatians
 forced to withdraw back to IoD, thwarted in effort to invade Thyatis.

 Fall 1008: Ethengari slaughter some Alfheim refugees headed for Wendar.
 Reason? None. Result? Some of the elves contract the plague.

 Fall 1009: Rad (Fellowship of the Star) grows desperate, begins working on
 Doomsday Weapon to harness the Radiance.

 Winter 1009: Thar, thwarted in effort to take Glantri City, move south into
 Darokin, crushed by Darows, Shires, and Karameikos.

 Winter 1009: Thwarted in their effort to invade Thyatis directly, the
 Alphatians invade Ylaruam instead, capturing Cubia, and begin to march south.

 Spring 1009: Heldannic Knights help beat up on pathetic Thar.

 Spring 1009: Thyatis requests aid from allies and local nations, gets only
 tolken aid from allies (HKs busy elsewhere, thumping Thar, Glantri busy with
 own problems) and none from other powers.
 Alphatians capture Fort Zendrol.

 Summer 1009: Alphatians overun Tel Akbir.

 Fall 1009: Alfheim Elves reach Wendar at last, taking the plague into it with
 them. Yippie!

 Fall 1009: Bloody battles between Alphatians and Thyatians in Thyatis;
 Alphatians bring in fresh troops to replace casualties, Thyatians reduced to
 resorting to old men and youths in desperate effort to hold Alphatians back.
 Alphatian war machine grinds over Thyatis in war of attrition.

 Fall 1009: Thyatis sues for peace with Alphatia as Alphatian forces near
 Thyatis City.

 Fall 1009: Rad (Fellowship of the Star) activates Doomsday Device, destroying
 Sundsvall. (First) Week Without Magic follows. As a result, Eriadna killed,
 Zandor becomes Emperor. Yay! (NOT)

 Winter 1009: Zandor convenes the Grand Council of Alphatia, orders them to
 either go blast Glantri City into rubble or go into exile. Most submit to his
 order, others (like Tylion/"Terari") go into exile instead. This is when
 Tylion/"Terari" goes to Karameikos to become head of their school of magic.

 Winter 1009: The Grand Council guys teleport to Glantri City and begin to
 bombard it from the air. Rad (Fellowship of the Star) activates Doomsday
 Device in effort to save his nation. War ends.

 Winter 1009: As a result of activating the Doomsday Device, Alphatia sinks.
 End of WotI. Later Events detailed in the First PWA and subsiquent Almanacs.

********************************************************************
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:35:06 +0800
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Glenn Butcher <knight@UCC.GU.UWA.EDU.AU>
Subject:      [fluff] The battle for Sayr Ulan
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The PCS IMC recently freed Sind from Hule. One of the players
wrote a story about it, in conjunction with his normal diaries.
This is the battle for Sayr Ulan, the critical point.

The page about the campaign is
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/norse.html
The diaries page (with zipped versions) is
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/campaign/cu.html
This contains the diaries as written by other characters as well, about
40 entries.

Dramatis Personae:
Kvana (aka Grey): Sindhi fighter/mage/"battle mage"
Turia: Tiefling fighter/thief, his wife (no one except Grey knows she
is a tiefling)
Lani: Faenre song mage/windsinger
Safranna: Centaur fighter/priestess of Freya
Roland: Pegataur Paladin, her husband
Zim: Sky-gnome mage/thief/"engineer"
Gwen: Sky-gnome fighter/"engineer", his wife
Guzurk: Dwarven fighter/thief/"diplomat"
Melany: priestess of Hermes/"hippy"
Minora: Milenian priestess of Petra
Lord Garen: Karameikan landed lord/mercenary captain
Jokana: Hinterlander priestess of Diulanna, his wife
The Hound: Sindhi resistance member
Plus a cast of thousands.

*** Day 1, Sayr Ulan

Sunlight filters through a hazy window of a building looking much
like any other in the Warriors Quarter of Sayr Ulan. A hushed silence
of nervous anticipation fills the room.

``They should be arriving shortly,'' murmurs the Hound to a Sindhi
warrior standing at his shoulder, red armband prominently displayed.
``Are the preparations complete?''

``Yes Sir,'' replies the warrior, taut as a bowstring.

``Then we wait.''

The house, like many buildings in Sayr Ulan, rests close up against
neighbouring buildings, with often little or no gap between them.
Thanks to the Freedom Warriors, many houses throughout the Warrior
Quarter have recently had the walls broken, thus allowing the passage
of people between buildings without being observed.

In the buildings so modified stand Sindhi men and women, with red,
orange, yellow, green, and otherwise coloured armbands, standing
patiently, waiting to provide directions.

In the city itself, most appears normal, the sun shining down through
a cloudless sky. The labourers work hard, the craftsman sell their
wares, and numerous others go about their daily business, all the
while watched over by chain clad patrols of Hulean troops, eyes
darting left, then right, with barely concealed edginess. But the
Warrior Quarter itself is suspiciously quiet.

*** (midmorning)

In the house, near the knocked out wall, a popping noise accompanies
the sudden arrival of a platemail clad figure holding a tall mirror
in both hands. A number of Sindhi in the room startle from the sudden
appearance.

``Well met,'' Kvana comments to the Hound, as several heavily armed
and armoured figures leap out of the mirror. Following them are a
smaller number of men and women decked out in robes, arcane symbols
subtly etched, fingers ready for the casting of destructive magics.

After a nod from Kvana, Ileana, a Karameikan mage Kvana recruited for
the Sind campaign, steps back into the mirror, to be followed out by
a steady stream of grim Sindhi warriors, hardened leather showing
signs of recent use. Death in their eyes, the first out are those
from Raneshwar. They silently follow the directions of the men
standing by the new portals in the walls, dispersing into the
buildings of the Warriors Quarter, and occasionally crossing the
unusually empty streets.

Accompanying the first wave of troops is Lord Garen, accompanied by
the heavy tread of an Iron Golem. ``Stand behind and hold the
mirror.'' The Iron Golem solidly moves to do so. Kvana moves aside.

``You've been busy, I see,'' Kvana says to The Hound, as several of
Lord Garen's military advisors exit the mirror, shortly followed by
generals from Gunjab, Kadesh, Jalawar, and Jhengal.

``Yes,'' responds The Hound casually, hand resting on the scimitar at
his side, ``we've had plenty of time to think of tactics. They'll
notice something eventually, but not for a while yet.''

*** (midday)

An orc patrol from one of the Master's Divisions, from the Foe
Shredders, rounds a corner in the Warrior Quarter, the sun shining
down from it's zenith, bright to their sensitive eyes.

``Hey, boss,'' Gleb growls in gutteral orcish to his patrol leader.
``I'm sure I've been seein lotsa Sind warriors goin to that buildin
over there. I just saw one goin in just now.''

``Gleb, you'd better not have found no trouble for us. Our patrols
almost up, and you're already responsible for getting us a patrol at
this Bozdogan forsaken time. All right, lets check it out then.''

The ten-orc patrol approaches the house Gleb saw a Sindhi enter, eyes
squinting. The sound of sword against metal can be faintly heard in
the distance, although the orcs remain ignorant.

``Up open it,'' the patrol leader calls in broken Sindhi, bashing his
mailed fist against the door. ``Under the arthritis of Hule, up
open!''

After no response from within, the Patrol Leader tries the handle.
The door swings open silently, revealing gleaming scimitars. Blinking
in surprise, the Patrol Leader barely has a chance to speak before a
scimitar slashes across his neck, dropping him in a single blow.

Sindhi silently pour out of the building. The orcs, caught completely
unawares, don't stand a chance. Only two manage to draw their swords,
but their fate is already decided. They're cut down in a flurry of
blows, their death cries sounding like a thousand trumpets to the
furiously working Sindhi.

Gleb, screaming ``ATTACK, ATTACK!'' is the only one to escape the
Sindhi. He manages to get half way down the street before another
door opens, and an arrow to the chest silences him forever.

``Well, I'd say the hiding is over,'' comments a Sindhi warrior,
scimitar dripping orcish blood. ``Let's get down to business.''

As the Huleans raise the alarm, thousands of Sindhis burst out of
packed buildings, flooding the streets of the Warriors Quarter.
Numerous Hulean patrols are quickly despatched, the odds
overwhelming, the surprise total.

***

``Alright, they're onto us,'' Lord Garen says. Then, to one of his
men, ``Tell the men to hustle. They know their objectives.''

Troops start flooding out of the mirror, the concern for secrecy
disregarded.

I hope this goes well, Kvana thinks to himself. It's pretty much out
of our control now. Everyone knows what to do, but if any one group
fails badly, all could be lost.

Sporadic fighting starts spreading throughout city. The sound of the
alarm rings loud and clear across the city. On the walls, in the
palace, and to the south of the city Hule forces rapidly scramble to
make ready for battle, with soldiers donning helmets and reaching for
weapons.

Simultaneously peasants and other non-combatants flee for cover,
struggling to avoid the combatants.

Seven distinct groups of forces can be seen leaving the Warriors
Quarter, one for each of the city gates, with Lord Garen's own troops
and the steel clad dwarven mercenaries remaining to bottle up the
Hulean forces within the palace.

The pristine city of Sayr Ulan is set to become a battlefield.

***

>From the housing near the west gate over five hundred red-skinned
baronies warriors charge the wall. Ill prepared, the five score
Hulean soldiers manning the gate scramble to make ready.

``An attack from within the walls? What?'' The startled Hulean
captain exclaims, hands shaking. ``Well, hurry it up and...'' he
continues, just as a unarmoured red-skinned mage, near the base of
the wall, gestures, letting loose a ball of flame. The ensuing
fireball tears through the command structure at the gate.

The remainder of the battle is quick and bloody. With no casualties,
the baronies men secure the wall against attack from the forces
outside the city.

***

``Leader, the north-west gate is around the bend a couple of hundred
yards up the road,'' murmurs an Yvardom mercenary, fingering his
spear.

The Yvardom force, assigned the northwest gate by Lord Garen, number
some 470 medium foot.

``Inform the men that we charge at the corner,'' replies the leader.

As quietly as leather and chain clad troops quick marching on cobble
stoned roads can be, the Yvardom force advances, until the signal is
raised. Without fanfare or battle cries, they rush toward the wall.

The Huleans, having had some chance to prepare, let loose an
irregular hail of arrows, cutting down some of the less lucky Yvardom
men.

Quickly closing the one hundred yard gap, the Yvardom mercenaries let
loose a volley of spears prior to engaging in melee.

The Huleans put up a good fight, killing over a score of Yvardom
mercenaries, and wounding an equal number. But the Huleans are
outnumbered and out skilled, and in short order the Yvardom
mercenaries control the wall.

***

Near the north wall, in a small peasant building, the stomp of
approaching feet starts is clearly heard.

``What's going on, honey?'' asks the first wife of the owner of the
premises.

``I'll take a look,'' responds an older Sindhi man.

Moving to the shutters, he opens them and pokes his head out, looking
from side to side. Then, faster than an eye can blink, he pulls back
and slams the shutters with a loud bang.

Looking shaken he turns to his first wife, and urgently says ``Quick,
get everyone together. We must get to the cellar quickly.''

Looking worried, the first wife asks, ``Why, what did you see?''

Shaking his head, he replies, ``I know not what I saw. I saw white
demons grasping weapons eagerly. Many of the white demons looked mad,
starting to froth at the mouth! What's worse, they were lead by two
impossible creatures, mixtures of men and horses. One had wings!
Hurry, to the cellar!''

***

Making absolutely no secret of their presence, nearly 400 Jarldom
mercenaries eagerly press forward to the north gate.

Those who aren't frothing chant loudly, screaming slogans promising
death to all their foes.

Rounding a slight bend, their objective becomes visible. By now, the
Huleans manning the gate are relatively prepared.

Safranna, shouting as loudly as she can, calls to her men, ``There
the bastards are. Go get em. Death and blood galore my friends!''

With a roar, the Norsemen charge, axes and broadswords and war
hammers swinging. In broken Hulean some shout phrases such as ``Die
die,'' and ``come get gutted.''

Safranna, getting helped to her feet by Roland after just having
tripped on a pebble, readies her bow and lets loose a constant stream
of arrows at her foes. Roland, eager eyes glistening behind the slit
in his helmet takes to the air with a whoosh, Maul of the Titans
ready to collapse skulls.

``Ready for the attack,'' a Hulean cries to his men. ``Fight hard,
for they won't take prisoners.''

The Huleans, seeing death charging them, ready their weapons even
more firmly, determination seen in the set of their jaw.

With a crash, the battle is joined.

Sword meet sword, axe meets armour, and maul meets flesh. Blood
litters the field, and increasing numbers of men drop, staring
disbelievingly at horrendous wounds. Some Norsemen take shocking
wounds, losing arms and legs, but they fight on, frothing at the
mouth and unaware that they are already dead.

The Norsemen fight hard and valiantly, but the Huleans, although less
skilled, are organised and fight as a unit, with the advantage of the
wall. Moreover, the Norsemen, distrusting mages, are without magical
assistance.

Although outnumbered, the Huleans hold their position. Unrepentant,
the Norsemen continue the fight, regardless of the 40 casualties they
have already suffered.

***

Accompanied by a cabal of priests, the Sindhi High Priest of the
Pantheon leaves the main temple of Sayr Ulan. Seeing a patrol of
Huleans, he slowly smiles. ``Payback time.''

Flame strikes blazing, the high priest and his cabal advance into the
Priests Quarter, purging it of Huleans.

***

Near the northeast wall, half of the Darokinian force, 600 light
foot, charge. Although taken by surprise, the Huleans react quickly,
and under well-coordinated guidance from the captain, and the narrow
confines of that part of the wall, they manage to hold off the
Darokinians.

``This could be tricky, sir. We have a small advantage at the moment,
but we can't bring the full weight of our men to bear, not in these
confines,'' says an officer to the Darokinian captain in charge of
this detachment.

The Darokinian captain, patting his pet mastiffs head, responds by
saying, ``Keep the men at it. In fact, have them press forward. By
jove we'll show these Huleans how inferior they are compared to the
wit of the Darokinians.''

``Sir, some caution is to be advised...'' the officer leaves the
phrase hanging.

``Don't be daft, good man. We haven't even suffered a single casualty
yet. Give the order.''

Looking reluctant, the Darokinian officer moves to obey his superior.

***

At the same time, but at the east gate, the second half of the
Darokinian force is far more successful. With quick wits and an eye
for enemy weakness, the captain in charge directs his forces,
managing to drive the Huleans from the wall without suffering any
casualties.

***

``Sir, we are ready for the charge,'' states a Sindhi soldier to the
Raneshwarian General. Arrayed throughout the streets and area behind
him, and further to the west, are innumerable Sindhi troops, over
four thousand in total. Theirs is the most critical battle, to take
the two southern gates, and the entire southern wall, for camped
south of the city are over five thousand Hulean troops.

``Speed is critical. If we fail to take the wall quickly, Hule will
be able to get men within the city. Snap to it. We have the numbers,
so charge.''

``Yes sir!'' responds the Sindhi. Rushing to another soldier, he
states, ``the order has been given. Raise the flag to charge.''

Upon seeing the raised flag, the Sindhi seethe forward with a cry.

The Hulean commander of the southern wall watches in horror as out of
the streets uncountable Sindhi soldiers charge forward. ``Hold them
off. Get your asses into gear, and hold them off,'' he calls to his
men. ``Hold fast! Anyone to retreat will be executed as deserters.''

The Sindhi, rushing up stairs and climbing ladders, crash into the
Hulean forces.

``Dammit, hold fast!'' screams the Hulean commander. About to cry out
again, he instead gurgles, collapsing to the ground, a Hulean with an
officer's badge and bloody dagger standing behind him.

``The commander is dead. Retreat,'' cries the Hulean officer,
cleaning and sheathing his dagger. ``Retreat!''

Those that can abandon the walls for the safety of the forces camped
to the south.

The Sindhi suffer no casualties.

The Raneshwarian General stands atop the wall, observing the Hulean
hive of activity south of the city. ``They are making ready to
attack. Secure the gates, and get some archers up here. Bring some of
the adventurers forth. They'll be needed to help with the giants and
trolls.'' A soldier responds quickly to his generals bidding. The
Sindhi make ready.

***

A runner rushes into the Sindhi temporary headquarters, where the
mirror first appeared. Taking a drink of water, and wiping his brow
of sweat, he says, ``Lord Garen, we have secured most of the walls.
The Huleans still hold off the barbarians and the first half of the
Darokinian troops.''

Another runner enters the room, kneeling before Lord Garen. In a
rush, ``The Huleans, sir, they've erected some sort of shimmering
barrier about the palace, which we've just finished barricading.
They've also launched ten flying ships. The Huleans in the priests
quarter have been dealt with by local Sindhi priests, one of whom
seems quite powerful.''

Lord Garen nods. ``Does anyone know of this barrier?''

The Darokinian Legionate, VII division, Darokinian 2nd army, nods.
``It looks like war magic. Most likely it prevents the passage of any
spells into the barrier, but not out. Any spell effects are dispelled
upon entering it, is my understanding.''

``Great,'' mutters Kvana. ``How long can they keep it up for?''

``Indefinitely, if they've got as many mages as you say, assuming
they're all war mages. Especially since it's only a small area. The
barrier will be a complete sphere, encompassing underground as
well.''

``It's not an immediate concern,'' says Lord Garen, smiling
reassuringly. The men in the moon relax a little, nodding. ``It seems
all is going better than expected. Our flying forces should take care
of theirs.''

Kvana nods, saying, ``That they are invisible will prove useful.''

Lord Garen issues some instructions to one of the runners, indicating
reinforcements to be sent to aid the Norsemen.

*** (mid-afternoon)

At the south wall, masses of Hulean troops arrange themselves,
preparing for the assault. A horn is blown, and the Master's
Divisions seethe forward, arrows from the wall cutting into their
charge.

Hill giant Reavers lumber forward, troll Devourers by their feet, orc
and bugbear Foe Shredders at their side, weapons drawn. Leading the
charge are human cavalry, the Faris, and goblin cavalry, the
Fangriders.

Taking innumerable casualties, the Hulean forces begin scaling the
walls, and attempt to smash down the gates.

``Smash those gates down,'' cries a Hulean officer, urging the giants
on in their efforts. One of the giants collapses to the ground, too
many arrows having affected their toll. Thump! Thump! More hill
giants take the place of their fallen comrade, and continue to smash
into the gate. In the un-pleasantries of an assault against well-
manned walls, Huleans are mown down left, right, and centre. Some are
thrown back after scaling the walls, Sindhi quickly despatching them.

With a great crack, the gate collapses in rubble. The hill giants
stand aside, letting Faris gallop into the breach.

``Look a priest. Get her,'' one shouts, seeing a garishly dressed
priest incanting the words to a spell. Faris charge forth, attempting
to reach her before she finishes calling upon the power of her faith.

Almost reaching her, their charge is halted. A teeming mass of
arachnids, insects, and myriapods appear, and attack the Huleans
unlucky enough to be in the area in which they appear. The Huleans
die. The Huleans that charge into the mass die. The Huleans pushed
forward by their colleagues pressing forth from behind die.

The mass of insects seethe forward, slaying all in their path.

The Hulean charge is stopped, and cries go up to send the trolls
first. Any enthusiasm on the Hulean part is destroyed.

Clapping her hands together, Melany says, ``Well, that aught to do
them,'' and the Most Favoured of Hermes heads off for the other south
gate.

***

A Hulean Doomflyer gains altitude, skeletons pulling oars in time
with the beat set by a Hulean soldier.

``We'll manoeuvre around, and assist the troops assaulting the
walls,'' the Captain states. ``Also, ...'' he begins, before looking
in shock at the galley that has just appeared a short distance ahead.
The galley, packed with ballistae and catapults, looses a broadside.
Flaming pitch and large bolts carve their way through the Hulean
airboat. The Hulean captain looks down in shock as a bolt creates a
hole the size of fist in his chest. The Hulean airboat, having
suffered much damage, loses altitude, and smashes into the ground
just shy of the east gate.

***

``I'm firing up the engines. Gwen, put a potion of speed in the
vase,'' Zim says, oily hand pushing the ignition switch. With a humm,
the engines purr into life. Gwen, concentrating on flying the ship
via the vase, pulls out a small coloured vial, and empties its
contents. The skyship Falcon gains a sudden jolt of speed.

``Let's show them what Gnomish tech can do,'' Zim says eagerly, hand
adjusting his goggles, smearing a little engine oil on his nose in
the process. Hunching over the Falcon's joystick, he brings the
Falcon in for a strafe on a Hulean airboat, 12 o'clock low. The
Falcon steadily approaches, Hulean ship in her crosshairs.

Zim flicks the gun safety cap back, and moves his thumb in place,
ready to fire.

``And... about... Now!'' The Falcon jerks back as bolts rip forth,
firing faster than normally possible, sending metal chunks ripping
through the unsuspecting Hulean ship. From the back Turia lets out a
cry of elation as she scores two direct hits against the enemy using
the Falcon's turret mounted cannon.

The now visible falcon roars past the Hulean ship with a vroom!

With skilful piloting, Gwen's use of the vase, and the extra speed
afforded by the potion of speed, the Falcon spins about in mid-air
ready for another strafe before the Huleans can even prepare
themselves.

Again roaring past, the Falcon looses bolt after bolt on the wooden
airboat, raining debris on those below. Attempting to manoeuvre into
place, the airboat begins to change direction, but the structural
damage inflicted by the Falcon is too great; with a crack of
splintering wood, the Hulean airboat breaks apart in mid-air, and
crashes to the ground amidst the Hulean forces assaulting the city.

``Yeah! The superiority of Gnomish invention,'' cries Zim, high-
fiving Gwen.

Zim moves the Falcon about, ready to take on the next airboat. But
now the Huleans are ready.

***

``Sir, they have flying vessels of their own, but only two,'' cries a
shipman to his Captain.

``Move to engage, and signal the other ships to do so as well. We
deal with them before engaging the ground forces,'' replies the lead
ships Captain.

``I THINK NOT,'' murmurs a great voice.

``Huh?''

Then, without any further warning, the massive bulk of Xenith appears
towards the tail of the airboat. With great gout of flame, Xenith
breathes on the airboat, incinerating the entirety of the rear end.

Half an airboat does not fly well. It falls to the ground, trailing
smoke.

With a flap of his wings, the great ruby dragon soars towards his
next victim.

The Sindhi ground forces cheer wildly, whilst the Hule forces are
further demoralised.

***

``We have an agreement,'' says Legion Commander Vladsovic to the
gaunt figure before him, handing forth a large sack of gems.

The gaunt figure smiles. ``You will not regret this.'' He whispers.
Putting on an air of concentration, he continues, ``Come, my pretty.
Come, and show them your might.''

***

``Raaar,'' cries a Norsemen, ``RAAR!'' The Norsemen moves to chop at
an orc, not realising he's lost his hand. ``RAAAAR!!'' he cries, and
then collapses to the ground, finally realising he's dead. The orc,
somewhat shocked, scrambles away.

The fight at the north wall continues, the Norsemen taking some
casualties, until infantry from the Company of the White Wolf charges
into the fray. The skill of the Company of the White Wolf makes the
difference, and the Huleans are driven from the north gate.

A little while later, the berserkers stop chopping the dead Huleans
into little bits, and collapse on the ground, tired.

Roland and Safranna hug, enjoying the afterglow of a small but hard-
won victory.

***

To the south of the city, beyond the Hulean forces assaulting the
walls, the ground tremors and sand shifts, as something moves to
escape the confines of the earth. Something large.

***

At the northeast wall, the Darokinians, following orders, recklessly
charge the now prepared Huleans. Their charge is met by steely
resolve, their commander demanding complete loyalty from his troops.

The fighting ensues, and the Darokinians suffer significant
casualties.

``Sir, we must hold back. Our casualties are untenable!'' cries an
officer to his Darokinian commander.

``Impossible. We outnumber them six to one. We cannot lose. Maintain
the attack I say.''

In the end, after suffering 230 casualties, the Darokinians finally
pull back, the position unassailable.

The local Sindhi forces, still not having shown their hand, move
forth from various buildings, all three thousand five hundred of
them, ready to lend the Darokinians assistance, before the Huleans
outside the wall capitalise on the weakness. The powerful Sindhi
priest and his cabal of priests move forth, also prepared to lend
assistance.

***

The sands continue to shift, and a massive bulk lifts itself from the
ground.

First the head, snaking its way to look at those in the sky, followed
by the body.

The massive body, reeking with the smell of death, made from a
patchwork of dead chromatic and metallic dragons, raises itself to
its full height, larger even than Xenith.

The creation, the abomination, the Undead Dragon, is whole but for an
incomplete wing. But this deficiency does not stop it from taking to
the air clumsily, lazily rising to meet any foe that dare challenge
it.

Xenith, seeing the monstrosity made of dead dragons seethes with
righteous anger, and with the advantage of height, plummets toward
the Undead Dragon.

Soldiers throughout the battlefield hold their breath in
anticipation. Combatants slowly become spectators, and the fighting
grinds to a halt.

Except at the palace, where the Huleans sally forth to attack the
Company of the White Wolf.

In the command building, Kvana looks at the Hound. The Hound says,
``This is not good.''

The mood is grim.

***

Consuming a potion of speed, Xenith rockets toward the Undead Dragon.

A monstrosity, Xenith thinks, one that will be destroyed.

Glittering in the afternoon light, Xenith reaches the creature, which
has been steadily rising, flapping its only good wing.

Xenith opens his great maw wide, razor sharp teeth displayed in
anger, and breathes. Great gouts of flame hot enough to incinerate
stone sere forth, blistering the air. The flames scorch across the
length of the Undead Dragon... which flies on, untouched and
unharmed.

In return, the Undead Dragon breathes at Xenith, and a small cloud of
greyish looking vapour engulfs the noble dragon's head... and
Xenith's great ruby heart stops.

Momentum carrying him forth, Xenith's body loses altitude, and
smashes into the ground, scattering Hulean forces.

Xenith breathes no more. The Master's Divisions roar a great cheer.

With some reluctance, the Falcon banks about, moving to engage the
dragon. Garen's flying galley is left to deal as best it can with the
Doomfliers.

The comparatively small Falcon dives toward the undead creature.
Loosing a volley of blasts, the Falcon causes but minor damage.

***

Lani, seeing the Undead Dragon, and thinking ``We can take it,''
moves to assist.

***

The dragon swings a claw at the Falcon as it flies past, but misses
the fast, smaller target.

The Falcon banks about for another fly-by.

***

Melany, winged boots flapping furiously, arrives at the carcass of
Xenith.

Dancing about the carcass are various Hulean troops, all looking very
happy. Some of them, seeing the ruby sparkle, start chopping into
Xenith's scales, seeking to gain riches from Xenith's misfortunte.

Damn, thinks Melany, where's Thora when you need her.

``Shoot her,'' cries a bugbear, gesturing at Melany.

``No!'' exclaims a Hulean officer. ``You'll get our own troops. Scale
the dragon and attack her.''

Some of the Huleans start climbing Xenith's body, using the scales as
hand holds.

Melany invokes a spell, a thought wave, to get Thora's attention.

Scanning the sky, and observing the Falcon, she sees no-one coming to
her aid.

Realising if she stays much longer she'll be captured, Melany leaves
the body of Xenith to the Huleans.

***

Lani, now close enough to the Undead Dragon, sings a song of
dispelling, and gestures at the dragon.

The dragon falls, unmoving.

But before it reaches the ground, it starts flapping its wing again.

Damn, thinks Lani. Well, may as well do it again!

Lani sings another song of dispelling.

***

The Falcon banks about, and ineffectually strafes the dragon.

``Damn,'' Zim swears.

Thora, having just failed in her attempt to turn the creature,
startles as she receives Melany's thought wave. ``I've got to go,
cast fly on me,'' she says, reaching for a potion of invisibility and
her rune stick.

After receiving the fly spell, Thora leaps out of the Falcon, and
heads toward Xenith's corpse.

***

Grabbing a messenger, Kvana shoves a potion into his hands and
shouts, ``Go find Safranna, give her this, and tell her to get up
there and fight that thing with her sword. Hurry!''

The messenger leaves in a rush, headed toward the north wall.

``Can you give me a fly spell, Grey?'' Gurzurk asks.

``Yes, of course,'' Kvana responds. Holding up a feather, Kvana
invokes his arcane power. The feather disappears, and Gurzurk flies
toward the Undead Dragon, beard trailing in the wind.

***

A few more times, people observe the dragon stop flying, sinking
toward the ground, defenceless, before moving again, the frail figure
of Lani a little distance below it.

The Falcon, trying its utmost to destroy the dragon, is finding it
just too tough. The Undead Dragon has caused some damage to the
Falcon.

Lani flies towards the allied HQ.

***

At the north wall, the messenger rushes toward Safranna, and hands
her the potion, repeating Kvana's instructions.

Gesturing into the air, Safranna says ``My husband has already left
with my sword. It's up to him now.''

***

With a crash, the Huleans from the palace crash against Lord Garen's
well-trained lines. Lord Garen's defensive position is strong, and
the Huleans cannot sally many troops. Lord Garen's men hold the line
with the help of the dwarves.

***

Back at Lord Garen's headquarters, Lani steps into the room. Unlike
other times, people are too preoccupied to notice her unearthly
beauty.

``Dispel magic stops it temporarily,'' she says.

``Really? Well, who can cast dispel magic? Minora, drink this, you're
going up there,'' Kvana says, almost forcing a potion into Minora,
who then leaves. ``I'm going too.''

``No, you're not,'' says one of Kvana's bodyguards. Various other
people in the room nod in agreement. ``You're too important to the
cause.''

Anguish in his eyes, Kvana says ``Dammit, I've got to do something!
By the pantheon, can't someone else cast dispel magic?''

At this point, with an air of power about him, the Sindhi high priest
steps into the room.

``Can you cast dispels?'' Kvana questions the priest.

``Yes...'' replies the Sindhi priest.

``Right, drink this, get up there, and cast dispels against that
thing!!'' Kvana snaps at him impatiently, shoving a potion of flying
in the priests face.

``Okay...'' responds the priest, leaving.

Kvana then looks about, and asks the Hound, ``Who was that guy
anyway?''

The Hound responds, ``Chandra Ul Nervi.''

The Rajahdhirajah, the King of Kings, the rightful ruler of Sind.
Kvana's superior.

Kvana's hands move to cover his face.

***

On Xenith's body, chanting is heard. Then, robes waving in the
breeze, Thora appears, looking a little tired. Xenith begins
breathing once again, if erratically.

Thora begins another spell.

In shock, nearby Huleans stop celebrating, and start hacking at
Xenith, desperately attempting to kill it once again. Some arrows fly
toward Thora, but miss.

Upon completeing her spell, Thora places her hands upon Xenith's
back. All of Xenith's wounds close up. Opening angry eyes, Xenith
swats at nearby Hulean troops, and raises himself to his full
majestic height.

***

The approach of Roland does not go unnoticed by the Undead Dragon.
Ignoring the Falcon, the Undead Dragon turns and directs its
attention at Roland.

Roland and the Undead Dragon fly toward each other. The Undead Dragon
breathes its breath weapon, engulfing Roland. Roland staggers, heart
skipping a beat, but then smiles. ``Ha, you didn't get me. My turn.''

Roland hacks into the belly of the Undead Dragon with the artefact
broadsword, at which it visibly flinches, but is otherwise mostly
unharmed.

Roland and the Dragon bank about for another pass at each other.

Gurzurk arrives at the scene, tugging his beard thoughtfully. Calling
upon the favour of his deity, Gurzurk sends forth a thin green ray
that misses the dragon by mere inches. ``Bugger.''

Gurzurk begins incanting once again.

By which time, Roland and the Undead Dragon pass each other again,
Roland hacking ineffectually at the tough hide of the Undead Dragon,
the Undead Dragon biting back with sharp if irregular teeth.

Whereupon once again a thin green ray lances forth from Gurzurk,
striking the Undead Dragon in its complete wing, which is immediately
turned to fine dust. ``Yes!''

The Undead Dragon, incomplete wing unable to support it, falls to the
earth. Roland, Gurzurk, and now Minora and Chandra Ul Nervi, as well
as Melany, follow its descent.

All five of them lay spell upon spell, blow upon blow into the
enormous body. Chandra calls forth a sunray, severely scorching its
patchwork hide.

Just as the Undead Dragon is about to breath once again, it is
stopped by a dispel thrown by Minora.

Using his mighty strength, Roland lunges forth with the enchanted
broadsword, striking deep and true. Having suffered much, the Undead
Dragon finally succumbs to the anti-undead power of the sword, and
crumples in upon itself.

***

A priest of Bozdogan desperately casts a spell at Xenith's massive
bulk, to no effect.

Xenith lazily reaches forth with a massive claw, picking the
terrified priest up. Raising the priest to his face, Xenith comments,
``YOU WOULD TRY TO HURT ME, HULE MAN? NOT AGAIN, YOU WON'T.'' Xenith
casually plucks the Huleans head from his body, and discards it
amongst the other dead Hulean troops.

Seeing nearby Hulean troops starting to organise, Xenith takes to the
air.

For Xenith, this fight has become personal.

***

The Falcon, together with Lord Garen's Galley, manage to drive two
more of Hule's airboats from the sky, before the remaining five, one
of which is damaged, retreat back to the palace where they are
housed.

***

The Legion of Doom, having made no ground against the combined force
of the Company of the White Wolf and the dwarven mercenaries, retreat
back to the Palace.

***

At the northeast gate, where the Darokinians fled in disarray, the
Hulean forces, completely demoralised from the loss of the Undead
Dragon, despondently give up the gate without any further fighting.

***

Likewise demoralised, and having suffered heavy casualties, the
forces assaulting the southern wall fall back.

*** (nightfall)

A Sindhi messenger steps into the mobile HQ, and kneels before the
Rajahdhirajah. ``Rajahdhirajah, we have completely secured the city.
The Huleans occupy the palace with an estimated 2000 troops, and they
control the terrain outside the city, with another estimated 5000
troops.''

Chandra nods. ``We have much to discuss this night my friends. I
would hear your advice. Perhaps some refreshments before we begin?''

Zim steps forward, an item in hand. ``I have just the thing. It's
called an endless decanter of coffee...''


----------------------


*** Day 2

In the resistance headquarters, a breeze gusts through an open
window, bringing fresh air in the early morning heat, and disturbing
some of the maps of Sayr Ulan arranged on the main table. Lord Garen
absently places a few more improvised paperweights on the maps.

``The problem, gentleman, is their position is very strong. An
assault from the ground is difficult, since there is but one bridge,
and the use of boats leaves much to be desired,'' speaks Lord Garen,
talking of the palace. ``Moreover, we cannot tunnel effectively given
the sandy conditions, and we cannot just fly in with the mirror so
long as their war mages maintain that barrier.''

Cramped into the room are a number of powerful personages. Paying
close attention to Lord Garen's words, as past experience has taught
them to, are generals from five of Sinds mumlykets, the King of Kings
Chandra Ul Nervi, Chandra's advisors, Lord Garen's advisors, Rani
Priya, the Darokinian commander, and a number of powerful
adventurers, including the group known as The Seekers.

``In addition,'' adds the Jalawarian general, ``we cannot use our
full might in an assault on the palace, lest those forces outside the
wall choose to attack.'' The others nod in agreement.

For the past hour or so, this miniature council has been discussing
what to do next. In the end it has been agreed that time is critical,
and dealing taking the palace would bring a speedy resolution to the
conflict. However, none are clear on how best to do so.

Turia steps forward. ``Hey, I have an idea. Now, Roland, you probably
won't like this, but hear me out anyway, okay?''

``Okay,'' Roland replies slowly.

``Basically, we want them out of there, right?'' Various figures nod
in agreement. ``And they've got plenty of food, right?''

``Enough to last a very long siege,'' Chandra agrees.

``So why don't we do something that'll make them want to leave?''

Roland, looking sceptical, asks, ``And just what do you propose?''

Turia continues, ``Now, this is the bit your not gonna like. But
think about it, okay?'' Turia pauses momentarily. ``We could gather
up all of their dead, fly over the palace, and drop them on them.''
Various people look horrified. ``It's great. They'll start stinking
real bad, so anyone in their right mind'll want to leave, and we're
like returning their own dead to them. What do you think?''

Kvana nods thoughtfully. ``Well I think it's an okay plan,'' he says.

``No, simply no,'' Roland firmly says, shaking his head. Most in the
room agree with Roland.

``Well, the principle has merit, surely?'' Kvana says. ``If we could
somehow make them want to leave?''

``How are we going to do that, drop rotten vegetables on them?'' says
the Darokinian.

For several minues the group discusses the possibility of how to make
the Huleans want out. The discussion is finally ended as Thora and
Melany leave, discussing the possibility of smoking them out using
plants with unusual properties.

A short while later, Kvana, looking thoughtful, says, ``We should
also figure out how their flying ships work. I believe there is some
wreckage near the east gate?''

``Yes, I'd like to know as well,'' says Zim curiously.

``I'll get some men onto it,'' Chandra Ul Nervi says.

*** (midday)

In a relatively quiet part of the command building, with his two
bodyguards standing near him, Kvana completes the incantation to a
spell. Two connected tiny cylinders in the palm of his hand
disappear.

``Ah,'' Kvana says. Finding a messenger, he tells the man, ``Find the
Rajahdhirajah and Lord Garen. Inform them both that Hule has
dispatched reinforcements from the border with Darokin, consisting of
cavalry and infantry totalling perhaps three and a half thousand men,
mostly Hulean.''

The messenger carefully repeats the message before leaving.

Kvana sighs, then pulls out another pair of tiny cylinders, and
begins making arcane gestures.

*** (early-afternoon)

Archers on the wall scanning for Huleans, the east gate rumbles open,
allowing a small force of Sindhi to sally forth, accompanied by some
adventurers, and horse and carts. They quickly descend upon the
nearby wreckage of a Hulean airboat.

``Quick smart,'' shouts the Sindhi sergeant in charge.

``Get the oars, they're magical,'' calls out Zim, after calling forth
the arcane power to observing magical auras.

Rummaging through the wreckage, a Sindhi calls out, ``Hey, there's
still some skeletons sir. They aren't doing anything though.''

Hmming, Zim thumps a drum he's found. Several Sindhi leap back in
surprise as some skeletons move their arms in a rowing motion. Zim
starts beating the drums as fast as he can. Thump thump thump thump.
``Hey, this is fun.'' The few surviving skeletons tirelessly keep up
with the beat.

Rolling his eyes, and muttering ``adventurers'' under his breath, the
sergeant calls, ``Get a move on lads. I can see some of them Huleans
getting more interested in us than they have a right to be. Get to
and load them carts!''

The Sindhi efficiently remove that which seems valuable from the
crash site, and return to the safety of the city.

After some investigation, it is determined that rowing a sufficient
number of oars in a boat causes it to fly. It occurs to some later
that a permanently magical oar is probably the reason that the Hulean
flying ships can pass through the barrier around the palace, snce it
wouldn't be dispelled.


*** Day 3

``We've had a little brainstorm,'' Kvana says to the resistance
command structure.

Lani steps forth, her exotic beauty distracting the men in the room,
``Yes,'' she says suggestively, the men are sure, ``here's what we
could try...''

A plan is made.

***

Xenith, ruby scales dazzling, dives out of the sky, through the
barrier, and breathes a great gush of flame, incinerating man, troll,
and stone alike. The Hulean alarm sounds, and men rush to the roof to
combat the new danger.

Xenith roars! Dozens of Huleans feel dragon fear grasp their heart.
Urged on by superiors, they hold their ground, and raise puny bows.
``Loose.'' A volley of arrows flies towards Xenith, some striking
true.

Xenith homes in on the archers, sealing their fate.

***

In an inflated bladder, Lani swims past the barrier surrounding the
palace, becoming temporarily visible before she re-activates Turia's
ring of invisibility.

Pausing momentarily, Lani waits to see if anyone has observed her.

A few Huleans, dislodged from the roof by a gust of wind from
Xenith's mighty wings, crash into the moat. They surface, unmoving.

Well, I guess they didn't notice, thinks Lani.

Lani quietly begins the motions and gestures required to bring forth
a being from the elemental plane of air.

***

Xenith returns temporarily to the city proper. ``Melany...'' he
rumbles.

``Yes dear?'' Melany comments, walking up to Xenith. ``Here you
are,'' Melany says, as she cures Xenith of his wounds.

Murmuring thanks, Xenith returns to distract the Huleans.

***

Lani ceases chanting, and an almost unnoticeable swirling of wind
unsettles the water nearby.

``Hi,'' Lani says, ``I'd like you to go in there,'' she continues,
gesturing at the palace, ``and find where a group of mages are. Then
come back and tell me what you find. Try not to be noticed.''

The disturbance in the water moves toward the palace, and disappears.

Lani sits back to wait.

***

A pair of Hulean guards nervously stand watch over a door, beyond
which lie a number of war mages, chanting in unison to maintain the
barrier. The occasionally boom on the roof can be heard even in this
isolated part of the palace.

``I wonder how long that's going to keep up for,'' the guard comments
to his companion.

``No idea,'' his mate replies, adjusting his uniform as a cool breeze
wafts past.

***

Xenith swoops low over the palace, scattering the dwindling numbers
of men on the roof. A fireball from a Hulean mage rises to meet him,
engulfing his wing with a whoosh. Xenith roars with disdain.

***

Lani listens to the report from the air elemental.

``Okay, go in there, and when you get to the mages, raise a storm!''
Lani says enthusiastically, raising invisible hands in the air,
``Whirlwinds, you name it, the lot. Break their concentration.''

The air elemental leaves.

Lani begins summoning a second air elemental.

***

In unison, the mages chant the arcane words required to maintain the
barrier. Their concentration perfect, their training complete, they
continue to maintain the barrier, ignoring the sounds emanating from
the roof.

Several soldiers stand nearby, guarding the mages.

Crack! The door bursts inwards, and a whirlwind suddenly brews within
the room.

Soldiers scatter, futilely attempting to find the source. The mages,
well trained, manage to maintain concentration.

Until, that is, some of them are picked up by the winds and thrown
bodily against the walls, leaving them crumpled on the ground.

Outside the barrier flickers, and then fades.

***

Seeing the barrier fade, the captain of Lord Garen's invisible galley
orders, ``To the palaces roof, now.'' The invisible galley sinks
toward the roof.

Packed with men who quickly leap out, they secure the immediate area.

Some Marids, Legion of Doom light infantry, raise the alarm.

Then, on the galley, the mirror disgorges a constant stream of men,
with over four thousand troops ready to storm the palace.

***

500 dwarves chanting battle songs march onto the bridge, a hail of
arrows greeting their advance

Gurzurk, leading the dwarves, eyes the stone blocking the entrance.

``Phagh.'' Aint no stone going to block Gurzurk. With a few words of
prayer, whilst shaping some clay, Gurzurk casually makes a second
entrance in the wall.

With a great cry, the dwarves clank forward. The disciplined steel of
the Marids meets their assault.

The battle is joined.

***

Four Hulean airboats take to the air, and are met by Xenith and the
Falcon.

With a smile, Xenith lets forth a massive wave of flame. The flying
ship continues, unscathed. Xenith frowns, and prepares his claws
instead.

***

The Rajadhirajah's forces move quickly, securing the roof with
relative ease. Red-skinned baronies men employ their legacies, some
growing scales, others wings, some employing magic missiles, and some
even miniature fireballs. Others grow body weapons.

Accompanying the baronies men are the steadfast Yvardom troops, Lord
Garen's soldiers, Sindhi light foot, and Jarldom mercenaries.

The battle moves into the palace proper.

One force advances, running into a solidly locked door. ``No
problem,'' a red-skinned warrior says, gesturing, and disintegrating
the locking mechanism. The door swings forth, revealing prepared
Hulean troops, warriors of the Legion of Doom. The two groups meet
with a clash.

Across the roof, troops move into the uppermost levels of the palace,
and the fighting begins in earnest, the Huleans outnumbered two to
one, but with the defensive advantage.

***

Opening a door, and seeing Hulean infantry ready, the Karameikan
adventurer Ileana cries ``Fire in the hull'', and throws forth a
fireball into the corridor, stepping aside as she does so. Flame
gushes forth, and the reek of burnt flesh permeates the area.

Ileana gestures, and her Karameikan adventuring companions step
forth, accompanied by a contingent of Sindhi infantry.

***

``Lord Garen, we are making headway into the palace, although there
doesn't seem to be as much Hulean resistance as we'd have first
thought,'' says an aid.

Lord Garen hmm's.

***

In the skies above the palace, the Hulean airboats are the worse for
wear. Plummeting out of the sky into the city proper crashes one,
dragon claws and Gnomish bolts having wrought their toll.

Another flying ship looks set to follow.

The Falcon, looking severely damaged, suddenly appears mostly
repaired.

The advantage of Alphatian magic.

***

Rarg, Denagothian barbarian and companion to the Karameikan
adventurering party, roars, ``Rarg!'' Maul in hand, hide armour
showing wear and tear, he charges into a group of horseless
Janizaries, Hulean elite cavalry. Heaving his maul to and fro, his
mighty strength downs men in single blows.

His fellow Karameikan adventurers, Ileana included, assist in
smashing the small group. Sindhi wade in, hacking too and fro, though
none as effectively as the skilled adventurers, who cleave paths in
ways that thoroughly impress the Sindhi.

***

Rosaline and Aiden hack too and fro into a group of Marids.

``Gosh, they're like butter almost, aren't they Rosaline,'' Aiden
comments.

Rosaline nods in agreement as she slices through the throat of a
Hulean before it takes the life of one of Lord Garen's wounded.

***

``Lord Garen, we're getting reports that the Huleans are fighting
back in full strength.''

***

The dwarves, never too tired for battle song, chant as they crush
skulls and lop off limbs.

Sweating hard, a plate mail clad dwarf mutters to Gurzurk, ``Damn,
there're just so many of them.'' The sentiment is felt elsewhere
along the dwarven line. ``By Clangeddin! We're just not making
headway.''

Gurzurk nods. ``Assume a defensive posture,'' he calls to his
comrades in arms.

Hulean Janizaries move to assist the Marids fighting the dwarves.

***

A fifty strong group of Northern reaches warriors, promising blood
and death and an eternity in Hell to their foes, run screaming into
gloomy stone corridor, tall stone statues lining the walls.

``I saw it running down here, aye. A giant, and kill it we shall. If
it's anythin' like them hill giants, 'twill be easy.'' The warriors,
seeing movement towards the end of the corridor, charge gleefully.

The stone giant Bone Smashers begin moving as the barbarians pass.

The slaughter begins.

***

A hundred strong force of Lord Garen's infantry move into a long
corridor, mostly empty but for a dozen priests of Bozdogan visible at
the end. The priests make as if to begin chanting.

``Quick, charge them before they get off their spells,'' cries an
officer.

The force bears down on the priests, who, standing close together,
begin casting in earnest, and in unison.

The light infantry, fleet of foot, have almost made it to the priests
when the chanting ceases, and a single, dissonant chord is voiced.
The sound from the choir of priests rips through the light infantry.
Men desperately clutch at their ears as blood streams forth. For some
it is too much, as heads explode from the unearthly noise. Even the
walls themselves shake and suffer damage.

Of the one hundred, only a handful return.

***

``Har!'' cries Lani, bringing forth yet another air elemental.

It is met by three Hulean air elementals.

***

Vernados, recruited with his fellow Darokinian adventurers in the
previous year by Kvana, assists Yvardom troops in steadily fighting
back Marid and Janizaries alike.

``Time for a well placed fireball, methinks,'' cries Vernados to his
Darokinian companions, also helping the Yvardom mercenaries. Flying
up to gain a better view, he begins incanting the words to evoke a
fireball.

Before he can finish, a Zafiry, forty elite Hulean combat mages,
loose their spells, tearing through the Yvardom ranks. Vernados
crumples to the ground, a lifeless heap.

And elsewhere is another Zafiry.

***

``Lord Garen, the tide of the battle has changed completely. They
have far too much magical power. We are suffering heavy casualties!''

Lord Garen, knowing the wounded cannot be recovered, reluctantly
says, ``Then give the signal to retreat.''

The better part of valour.

***

A tired, beaten force, makes way to the mirror, and escapes the area
of the palace, which is left firmly under the control of the Huleans.

At the end, the Sindhi and mercenaries have lost 800 fighting men,
and the Huleans one hundred. The Huleans have lost an additional two
airboats.

The barrier about the palace reappears.


-----------------------


*** Day 4

``What are our options?'' asks Chandra of his advisors.

``I don't think we'll be attacking the palace anytime soon,'' answers
Kvana. ``We should probably see where the Hulean reinforcements are.
Zim,'' Kvana says, turning to Zim, ``would you be able to take the
Falcon and scout the area?''

Zim answers, ``Er, yeah, I suppose.'' Zim gathers some of the
Seekers, to help pilot the Falcon, and leaves.

Kvana continues, saying, ``I've spoken a bit with Minora, and I think
we can probably safely hire some Lizardmen which we've come across in
Davinia. I should be able to get a couple of thousand, if that's
acceptable, Rajahdhirajah?''

Chandra nods.

After some further preparation, Kvana teleports away, taking Melany
with him.

*** (midmorning)

In the southeast part of Sayr Ulan, a unit of a dozen Sindhi patrol
the streets, ensuring all is well.

``All appears well, sergeant,'' one Sindhi comments to the patrol
leader. ``Mind you, it does seem pretty quiet.''

``A bit too quiet, maybe,'' the Sergeant replies. Acting on
intuition, the Sergeant moves over to a nearby house, his patrol
following him.

Before he can knock on the door, it opens, and dozens of orc and
bugbear Foe Shredders spill out. With a few thrusts of sword, and but
a couple of screams, the Sindhi patrol is cut down.

Sayr Ulan is attacked from within.

Throughout the southeast part of the city, Hule forces spill out upon
the unsuspecting defenders.

***

Standing guard on the wall, an Yvardom warrior hears sounds of battle
emanating from below, inside the city. ``What?'' he asks the air.
Looking outside the walls, the illusion of the Master's Divisions
fades, revealing but a few personnel. ``Not good.''

The Yvardom warrior picks up his spear, and is joined by many of his
dark-skinned fellows, also stationed on this part of the southeast
wall. Looking below, they see Hule forces swarming out of the
buildings, some less than a short stones throw away.

``We're cut off,'' says an Yvardom warrior, stating the obvious.

``They're sending giants at us,'' says another, gesturing. ``Best
prepare.'' They hunch down, prepared for the inevitable as a unit of
Reavers, forty hill giants, make way to the wall.

Battle can be heard breaking out throughout the streets.

***

Elsewhere, Fangriders and Faris rush toward the palace, where if the
bridge is secured, then the Legion of Doom can be used, and Sayr Ulan
will once again become under the control of Hule.

***

``Rajahdhirajah, Lord Garen, we are attacked!'' a messenger calls as
he disturbs a high-ups discussion. ``Hule has moved their forces from
outside the city to the southeast part of the city without our
knowing.''

``What?!'' exclaims Lord Garen. ``Quickly, we must form a defensive
line immediately.'' Lord Garen hurriedly issues a number of
instructions, messengers rushing to obey.

***

An ill-prepared force of Baronies men meet the crushing charge of
Faris, Hulean light cavalry.

With the weight of horses behind them, the unit of Faris brushes
aside the Baronies men, leaving a disorganised mess of red-skinned
warriors behind them. ``Forward,'' one cries, directing his men on.

Troll devourers move forward to finish this group of Baronies
mercenaries.

***

The Dwarven mercenaries, as one, stand fast against the charge of two
units of Fangriders. The wolf-mounted goblins lope forward, and
engage the dwarves.

The dwarves meet the onrush bravely, inflicting casualties on the
enemy. But the goblin cavalry is soon joined by orcs and bugbears.
The dwarves, skilled warriors that they are, cannot hold against the
weight of numbers.

``Where are the reinforcements??'' screams one dwarf, before taking a
sword blow to the chest.

``Slowly fall back, slowly fall back,'' cries another dwarf.

The dwarven line, taking significant casualties, slowly falls back,
their wounded left bleeding.

***

Several hundred yards behind the crumbling front line, some dwarven
engineers get to work, assisted by Sindhi soldiers.

``Here's a good spot,'' says one. ``The Lord Garen said hurry, so
hurry we shall. Tear that house down,'' the dwarf says, gesturing at
a well-groomed building.

``Aye, sir,'' the dwarven engineers say, and get to work.

The noble owner of the house is silenced after he protests too much.

The dwarves rush the building of temporary breastworks. As the sounds
of battle near, their work reaches a frenzied pace.

***

``What a ridiculous price,'' Kvana mutters to Melany, ``nine gold per
lizardman per week, since we want them as early as tomorrow
evening.''

Melany smiles inanely.

``Hold on,'' Kvana says, grasping Melany's hand, and holding a
platinum casting of a portal in the other. ``Teleport.'' The platinum
portal slowly crumbles, and then Kvana and Melany are in Sayr Ulan
once again.

The roar of battle not too distant is unmistakeable.

``Great,'' Kvana mutters. Kvana moves to join the battle, while
Melany heads to the makeshift hospital.

***

``Lord Garen, our losses are heavy, amounting to 20% of our manpower.
We continue to fall back,'' a runner tells Lord Garen. He continues,
``and the temporary breastworks are almost complete. And they have
created some new forces...''

***

The Company of the White Wolf, quick to react to the surprise attack,
have suffered the fewest casualties. Nonetheless, they are forced to
withdraw at the same rate as the other troops, lest they be left
behind.

Fifty of Lord Garen's heavy foot once again stand fast against Hulean
forces. With a clash, they hold against a bugbear charge. The clang
of sword on sword, and the sound of sword through flesh, is clearly
heard.

``What is this,'' cries a footman, ``they have Zombies!''

Before the footman stands the rotting corpse of what used to be a
Sindhi soldier. Moaning, the zombie reaches, grasping fearlessly for
the footman's throat. Not having any of this, the footman swipes at
the Zombie, removing its hands.

The Zombie continues to attack.

***

Throughout the city, thousands of men fight and die. Houses are torn
down, for the making of barricades. Wounded are trampled on by men
desperately concentrating on staying alive.

Quickly at first, but slower as the battle continues, the Master's
Divisions advance, gaining ground.

***

``We continue to lose ground, Lord Garen. Another 20% in
casualties.''

``Withdraw to the barricades. Cover the retreat,'' is Lord Garen's
response.

Shortly a horn is heard across the battlefield, sounding a pre-
specified pattern.

***

``You heard it boys,'' cries a dwarf, ``withdraw!''

The dwarves, sorely pressed by humanoid foes, make good their
retreat.

The humanoids, seeing the opportunity to attack, make to do so. But a
flight of crossbow bolts, and a few fireballs makes them reconsider.

***

Xenith flies through the air, looking for likely targets. From his
vantage point, the city is a strange sprawl, with figures moving back
and forth, some falling and not getting back up again.

He sees some Jarldom mercenaries attempting to make good their escape
from an almost full strength group of Reavers, but the hill giants
can run faster than the small humans.

Xenith dives.

***

Safranna pulls forth her last arrow from the Quiver of Ehlonna.
Knocking it, she looses the arrow. She misses her target, a hill
giant, and watches helpless as it clubs a brave Norsemen senseless.

Around them the chaos of battle rages, hill giants making a speedy
retreat difficult.

Damn damn damn, thinks Safranna.

Then, with a whoosh, Xenith arrives, and fills the street with fire.
Suddenly, there are no hill giants pressing them.

``Run, run now!'' cries Safranna.

As one, the Norsemen unhesitatingly bolt for it, their fallen
comrades left groaning piteously for help.

Xenith lazily flies past, looking for new targets.

*** (mid-afternoon)

By the end of the battle, half of the capital is lost to Hule,
although not the entrance to the palace.

Both sides, too tired to continue fighting, rest, prepared for
further battle on the morrow.

***

The Falcon flies lazily over two and a half thousand Fangriders and
Faris.

Gurzurk and the Falcon have some fun with the cavalry, slowing their
advance, before deciding to return to the capital.

*** (early evening)

Looking tired, Kvana says, ``I should get the lizardmen now. To not
do so could prove disastrous. Does anyone have a good negotiator?
They're likely to be expensive.''

Lord Garen nods, ``One of my men is a priest of Hermes. He's right
for the task.''

Nodding, Kvana begins incanting a spell of communication. Nemon is
required to do the teleports this time.

In the end, the lizardmen agree to twenty gold per lizardman for the
first week, payable in advance, and ten gold per week per lizardman
thereafter.


*** Day 5

The dawn breaks, revealing another clear sky above the somewhat
gutted city of Sayr Ulan. Clear but for the return of the Falcon.

A guard, assigned the relatively safe duty of guarding his Colonel,
commander of one of the Master's Divisions, listens as orders are
given for the renewed assault against the somewhat reduced Sindhi
force.

Although assassination is always possible, little trouble is expected
this far behind the front line.

The guard collapses, a dripping spear through his throat.

***

The lizardman leader, accompanied by 2000 of his friends, swims to
the edge of the moat, behind enemy lines, easily holding his breath.

Slowly he rises, slitted eyes breaking the surface. Unseen, he creeps
forth, followed by some of his lizardmen, others of his lizardmen
heading to other parts of the enemy lines. The lizardmen leader sees
a group of humans milling around, some of them listening to and
obeying the other humans.

Gesturing to fellow lizardmen, they creep around, gaining an
advantageous position from which to throw their spears.

Hissing, the lizardmen heft their spears. The lizardmen leader
catches one weak human in the throat, instantly dropping it.

Drawing their blades, the lizardmen charge.

The surprise of the lizardmen is complete.

Weak humanssss, thinks the lizardman leader, trying to protect thisss
one, but too late now. The lizardman shoves his broadsword through a
Hulean.

***

``Charge!'' cries the Raneshwarian general. From out of the
breastworks leap Sindhi soldiers, ready to wreak revenge against the
Huleans. Joining them are red-skinned warriors, dark skinned Yvardom
mercenaries, and the Company of the White Wolf.

The Huleans, taken by surprise by the sudden confidence of the
Sindhi, scramble to retaliate. Trolls, giants, humanoids, and humans,
all fight the advance, inflicting heavy casualties on the Sindhi and
their allies.

But word filters through of a new enemy to the rear, and the Huleans
waver.

***

A hill giant swings hist fist, and breaks a knuckle against the tough
Iron Golem.

Emotionlessly, the Iron Golem breaks the hill giants neck.

***

The gates to the palace open, and stone giant Bone Smashers move
forth, followed tightly by the elite Janizaries, Hulean light
cavalry.

Sallying forth, their advance is halted suddenly by the appearance of
Xenith.

``YOU JUST DON'T LEARN, DO YOU,'' Xenith rumbles loudly, and
breathes...

***

Turia darts away from the blow of a hill giant. The ground heaves as
the hill giant's club smashes into it.

``Oi. Stop moving,'' the hill giant says slowly.

Not likely, thinks Turia.

The hill giant raises its club once more, giving Turia the
opportunity to leap in, slashing it with claw and short-sword alike.

The hill giant smiles crudely, ``Flesh wound.'' The hill giants' eyes
then glaze over, and it collapses, frothing at the mouth.

Smiling, Turia moves on to the next victim.

*** (mid-morning)

Working quickly and efficiently, the lizardmen cut through the enemy
ranks like a hot knife through butter, showing no mercy to the weak.
>From the rear, the enemy are routed.

>From the front, Lord Garen personally leads a charge, destroying the
Hulean front lines' will to fight.

In short order, the Huleans are routed, leaving behind 40% dead or
wounded.

A messenger under a flag of truce leaves the palace, and approaches
the Sindhi forces.

The battle for Sayr Ulan is over.


--
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au              | If you were plowing a field, what you
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au                | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel
                                      | processing

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=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:46:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Larry Lamb <Boondale@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [fluff] The battle for Sayr Ulan
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Um, im not sure but are attachments alowed on this list? I ask cous it's not
on the FR list.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:56:01 GMT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Ricardo Matheus <darkblood18@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Expanding
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Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

    I have added a new map to the Mystara�s Map navigator (my site):
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/

  An personal interest question: Is there any brazilian guy in this list?

                          Darkblood
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:19:06 +0800
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Glenn Butcher <knight@UCC.GU.UWA.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: [fluff] The battle for Sayr Ulan
In-Reply-To:  <30.b7a42b2.271d25b3@aol.com>; from Boondale@AOL.COM on Mon,
              Oct 16, 2000 at 11:46:59PM -0400
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 11:46:59PM -0400, Larry Lamb wrote:
> Um, im not sure but are attachments alowed on this list? I ask cous it's not
> on the FR list.

According to the list information, no. You will note it's not an attachment :)

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091/MMLGuide.html
"Sending attachments to the list is considered pure evil, and may get you in trouble."
"Fluff is acceptable as long as it is Mystara relevant."

Hmmm, made a mistake in the length tho - misplaced the decimal.
Sorry everyone.
*slaps himself*

--
knight@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au              | If you were plowing a field, what you
glennb@ichr.uwa.edu.au                | rather use: two strong oxen or 1,024
http://www.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au/~knight/ | chickens? - Seymour Cray on parallel
                                      | processing

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The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.

=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:18:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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> At 21:32 10/16/2000 +0000, Agathokles wrote:
>
> >What did they do? I don't remember them as being engaged in "Evil"
> >activities.
>
>         According to KKoA, Olivia actively seeks to shift the power
center in the
> kingdom to herself. Treason.

I'd call it "common sense", considering *who* her husband is ;P
Seriously, she *is* the Duchess, so she already has the highest rank in
Karameikos (don't know how this changed in K:KoA, though).

> And Desmond is engaged in similar activities.

AFAIK, he wanted to marry Adriana to get the throne... (though probably
it changed in K:KoA, since Adriana is married). What does he plot,
specifically.

> >Stefan didn't. The average Thyatian didn't too, or at least they
didn't
> >consider it an evil act, otherwise he would have been removed even if
he
> >was the Duke's cousin.
>
> Stefan was unaware/disbelieved that Ludwig was involved in genocide
> against the halflings.

Either many of the Thyatian Karameikan shared this attitude, or really
didn't care about it.

As for "allowing" the invasion: considering the respective strength of
the Karameikan and Hin armies from the Gazs, there was little he could
do to prevent it, anyway :)

Now that I think about it, I realise why Stefan did not believe that
Ludwig was involved in genocide against the hin: he probably new of the
number of 36-level hin wizard-druids / high-level Krondars / an army
stronger than his own and Ludwig's (and many others, for that) together!
;P
--

        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:59:14 +1300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Benekander problem
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> This is a spoiler: please, those who wish to roleplay WotI read no
further;
> instead, those who are going to DM it should read.
>
> ******************************************************************
>
> Here's another questions for the List:
> In a short time I am planning to start DMing WotI to my group.
>
> Well... the first part expects them to trust Benekander and offer
themselves
> (one of them, that is) in exchange for him into his mirror.
>
> I find it very unlikely that my group of egothistic and paranoid players
> (they love to call themselves "of Neutral alignement") would trust him and
> agree. This could make the introduction to the second part (Benekander
> offering them another job) an extremely uneven event.
>
> How would you put the whole thing another way round and make it either
> acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing or else induce
> Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage? Please, advise.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Federico
>

You could just leave it the same but make it sound so interesting that they
cannot pass it up. It could lead to some interesting roleplaying where the
players trick someone they don't like into swapping places. Having just got
WoTI I have not read it yet but I am garanteed the same problem.

Chris.


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:23:06 +1300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
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> OK, having just read the timeline in the dnd.starflung.com site I'm left
> with a whole host of questions which I can't be bothered to ask. What is
it
> with TSR and cataclysms???
> Luckily, as some will no doubt point out, I don't have to abide by it.
I'll
> stick with the Gazateers and develop the campaign the way I want.
> The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs,
etc)
> that would benefit me?
> b)  What happens after AC1000?


Being in a simmilar situation, I've just got back into D&D and discovered
this wealth of infomation on the net. However there the catch is that it is
mostly set in the unknowen in canon future after 1013AC. This lead me to by
WoTI which is fantastic. It puts most of the problems of the gold box and
allows you a better prespective of the world to build a deeper campaign.
Having said this if you can get it, great, if you can't run an alternate
timeline which still results in the sinking of atlantis....oppps I mean
Alphatia. (the three old crones in C1: Test of the warlords actually call it
atlantis so it's sinking was long planned by TSR.) There are ample adventuse
ideas out there for this but to do this the most important thing is to keep
track of the date! (as I am discovering)
I have to recommend however the Poor wizards Almanac's I & II. Thay are
infinately useful with everything you need to know to run an adventure
anywhere! Armys, people, places, history, etc. I have had the 1st one for
years and it is fantastic and I got the second one last week "new in
shrinkwrap" from amazon for US$9.95 + postage. (address below)
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y01Y5330721Y7918049/qid%
3D971780552/002-3061465-3621635
The second one from the skim through I have had is at least as good as the
1st if not better because while it summarizes all the info from the 1st one
it has new goodies too.

Chris.


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:48:50 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: Expanding
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>     I have added a new map to the Mystara�s Map navigator (my site):
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/
>
>   An personal interest question: Is there any brazilian guy in this list?
>
>                           Darkblood
> _________________________________________________________________________

Hmm, and on the same note:
To all Israelies on the MML (I think we are 3 now!) IGOR (israely gaming
organisation or something like that) holds a tournement for players above
the age of 16.
Its on the 22ed, and I am thinking of attending and holding up the Mystaran
flag. Go to http://www.roleplay.org.il/
for details.

Ohad (Morphail)

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:17:06 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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I wrote:

>or by NACE at a later time: of course they survived,
>but certainly NACE refers to
>them today as "Vilest traitors of the Alphatian Empire".
>

The Stalker replied:

This I doubt. NACE was founded by those who conspired to depose
Zandor (Haldemar, Broderick, etc.), so I could easily see NACE
pardon those who opposed him back then.

I answer:

I agree. This sounds pretty reasonable.

****************************************

I wrote:

>5. Note that if they didn't sleep enough at this point - which
is more than
>likely - they could not study new spells,

The Stalker replied:

They hid in Glantri for an entire week, but didn't bother to
study their spells?

I answer:

I disagree. No way to do so, in a Week Without Magic.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:17:51 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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Jacob Skytte wrote:

> kevin wyton <caliir@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > Greetings all
>
> And to you as well.
>
> > An interesting omission has come to light in the campaign I am playing in.
> > While reading through and marking birthdays and such in her Mystaran
> > calender our DM noticed a lack of listed holy days and other such festive
> > occurrences for elves. Did she perhaps miss them in the almanacs?
>
> Indeed the almanacs list a number of Shadow Elven holidays as well as a few for the Glantrian elves, but none that seem related to Alfheim. I guess those flighty elves just threw a party when they felt like it... ;)  Yes, yes, I know they're not really like that; just call me a prejudiced Ostlander.

alfheim becomes aengmor - it is in the forest of canolbarth.
is this right? - then i have some holyday of shadowelfs and other elfs.

informations are out of the Poor Wizards Almanac3.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 05:59:10 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Herve Musseau <hmusseau@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Asssault on Glantri
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I think a scenario that James suggested a few days ago, though it seems odd at
first, isn't that much when you look closer at it, and it would allow to patch
the holes in WotI.

The scenario is that of the Grand Council teleporting outside Glantri and
progressing toward the city, rather than appearing directly over Glantri.

IMO it would make sense, considering both the rules of teleportation and the
protection against that spell, that they would indeed teleport outside the
city. Since most large cities (and especially, I assume, Glantri's) are
protected against direct teleportation, they can't teleport directly into it.
Because they must teleport to a place with solid terrain and not in mid-air,
they can't teleport above and fly down (otherwise, the protection form
teleportation would be pretty useless in the first place).

Thus, they teleport outside the city, and start attacking there, progressing
inward from the suburbs to the city proper. Because they are chaotic, impatient
Alphatians (and probably angry, and not especially happy to have to come do
that), they would tend to cast spells a-plenty immediately, torching every last
farm and killing every Glantrian peasant in an obvious overkill. Then they
would make their way toward the city, at different paces (I doubt there is much
cooperation or coordination). Depending on how many of them you want to save
IYC, any number may have exhausted their spells blasting the unimportant
farmsteads in the outskirts of Glantri City before the WWM occurs and they are
trapped in Glantri (vs teleporting back to Alphatia and sink, and later be
restored, with it). Then the Immortals' battle would start and the Doomsday
Device be activated as a result, and magic would stop, trapping the remaining
wizards in Glantri. In that scenario, these wizards have a higher survival
chance than if they were over Glantri City, as those that were still behind in
the countryside would have better chances of escaping with their lives, as they
would face only peasants (assuming their are still some alive around them after
they showered them with their deadly spells) rather than city guards and angry
townsfolk, and they can hide more easily: they can travel a foot a little (they
won't like it but hey) to one farm they didn't torch, kill the peasants (a 36th
level wizard with a now non-magical dagger is still a capable fighter, compared
to a family of peasants with forks) and eat the farm's food until magic
returns; they can even sleep and relearn their spells if they brought a
spellbook, and in the meantime be really worried (though that won't kill them)
at what they'll become now that magic is gone (since they have no reason to
guess it'll last only a week).

I don't see any holes in that scenario, it works well with the rules and canon,
and allows a degree of latitude concerning the ratio of Alphatian wizards that
are killed in Glantri / drowned and resurrected in the HW / left behind on the surface.

=====
___________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau <hmusseau@yahoo.com>
http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:13:17 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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>I disagree. No way to do so, in a Week Without Magic


Well, that's interesting... in the Day of Dread and Week without magic, all
magic fails to work, but, cannot spells be studied???? Maybe, maybe not.
That sounds like forbidden spells in the HW, you can study or meditate for
them, but they are useless if you cast them.
Perhaps it's different for clerics, who receive spells from their Immortals,
and for creatures with innate magical abilities, but, IMO, magic-user's
memorization and study is not a magical process, but a mundane one; it is
the casting which is magical. Is there any D&D book where something is said
about the nature of "memorizing spells"???

Andres

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:23:59 -0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Tzimisce <jlz@ESCELSA.COM.BR>
Subject:      Re: Expanding
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>    I have added a new map to the Mystara�s Map navigator (my site):
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/
>
>  An personal interest question: Is there any brazilian guy in this list?
>
>                          Darkblood


Yes there is!... quero dizer: Sim tem, sim! :)
Te contato em PVT!

[   ]�s Tzimisce

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:52:39 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Phillip Jones <mr-dead@LEMMING-LAND.FSNET.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Beyond the Gazateers
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs,
etc)
> that would benefit me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sid

The PWA's are filled with stuff to "colour" the Mystaran setting, and also
detail a bit more of the Known World.

WotI is also quite valuable (even if you don't like the events that it
details). It has a fully fleshed out section on the Paths to Immortality
(not just the scantily addressed section in the RC), tables for Immortal
powers and advancement, Mystaran Immortals, some rather cool Immortal level
monsters, and of course, detailed rules for creating artifacts. I must
admit, it is one of the best products I have bought, not because of the
"official" timeline (I don't like that part much myself - I love the idea of
a world war, just hate to ruin my Gaz & Trail maps  :)  ), but the sheer
volume of information it contains to expand the OD&D game, and the Mystaran
setting in general.

I don't know much about Champions of Mystara (didn't manage to get that one,
its on my shopping list though  :)  ), but do suggest that you download the
Red Steel setting too. An excellent setting (if you can get around that "Red
Curse" business (a pet dislike of mine)) and of course details yet more of
lands of Mystara.  :)

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:05:33 -0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Eduardo Lopez <edu_lopez@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Expanding
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> >  An personal interest question: Is there any brazilian guy in this list?
> >
> >                          Darkblood
>
>
> Yes there is!... quero dizer: Sim tem, sim! :)
> Te contato em PVT!
>
> [   ]�s Tzimisce

Well, theres is another! It�s good to see brazilians guys playing Mystara.
Vamos fazer contato em PVT!

 See ya!

Eduardo Lopez




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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:46:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         III <SundanceIII@EXCITE.COM>
Subject:      Dragon Mags
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I recently discovered that I am missing one installment of Voyage of the
Princess Ark.  Any recommendations on places to purchase Dragon back issues
online?

-Andy Morrow





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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:19:31 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         DeAnna Ferguson <DeAnna_Ferguson@LARSONJUHL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dragon Mags
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Have you tried www.titangames.com? He's reliable and carries a fairly large
selection.

DeAnna




III <SundanceIII@EXCITE.COM> on 10/17/2000 01:46:23 PM

Please respond to Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>

To:   MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
cc:    (bcc: DeAnna Ferguson/HR/USA/LARSONJUHL)
Subject:  [MYSTARA] Dragon Mags




I recently discovered that I am missing one installment of Voyage of the
Princess Ark.  Any recommendations on places to purchase Dragon back issues
online?

-Andy Morrow





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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:07:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dragon Mags
In-Reply-To:  <8525697B.00649B27.00@atlnotes1.larsonjuhl.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 14:19 10/17/2000 -0400, DeAnna Ferguson wrote:
>Have you tried www.titangames.com? He's reliable and carries a fairly large
>selection.

        Barring that, eBay has lots of "Dragon" issues, although you likely have
to wait to get the issue you want.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:33:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      3E MM and Mystara
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

        Surprisingly good coverage of Mystara in the new Monster Manual, IMO. I'm
a little sorry that the aranea, choker, et al will no longer be exclusive
monsters, but if a legacy is the best thing that can be hoped for from
Mystara and WotC, it's better that than nothing. (And, frankly, we seem to
have gotten a better treatment than the Ravenloft crowd, although
Planescape seems to be well supported so far.)
        I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear to be fatal
to demihumans anymore. At first, I rebelled against this, but what if this
was an effect of the Week Without Magic? (Which could also, IMO, explain
the emergence of new classes amongst other races.)
        What are the pros and cons of making lycanthropy a threat to all humanoids
and demihumans? (And don't say "tradition," because my players and I don't
care.)

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:14:01 +0200
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
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Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy
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>
>         I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear to be fatal
> to demihumans anymore.

Yeeeeech! I have to write this under my list of good reasons not to pass to 3E. If
I find some place left on the tome I have written.
Rant over.

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:14:01 -0700
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Wizards Shopper <dereka@UNISERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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Quoting Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>:

[snip]
>         I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear
> to be fatal
> to demihumans anymore. At first, I rebelled against this, but what if
> this
> was an effect of the Week Without Magic? (Which could also, IMO, explain
> the emergence of new classes amongst other races.)
>         What are the pros and cons of making lycanthropy a threat to all
> humanoids
> and demihumans? (And don't say "tradition," because my players and I
> don't
> care.)

Well, using the WWM to explain a change in lycanthropy seems a little weak.
It's stated in several places that lycanthropy is /not/ a magical disease, so
whether or not there's magic shouldn't be a factor.

As to whether lycanthropy should be a threat to all humanoids and demihumans,
well ...

It appears that gnomes are not much affected by lycanthropy.  In Top Ballista,
there's an NPC gnome flyer that is a pseudo-weretiger -- his only side-effects
are that he grows whiskers and growls when he gets angry, or something.

However, elves, dwarves and halflings all /die/ of the disease, as recorded in
the history of Minrothad (the Silver Purge).  This being an important event in
the shaping of a nation, and being /completely/ based on this fact, there
should be a very good reason for changing it, IMO.

- Auld Skald

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:28:58 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: My Swords of Wayland article (was: Back)
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:04:50   Daniel Mayer wrote:
>Hey, Stalker!
>
>These "swords of Wayland" I would be glad to read about. What4s that
>"Tome #4" about? The private Tome of Wisdom? :)
>
>If it is a nice article of you, I would be glad to have post in my
>e-P.O.Box :)))
>

Well, all Mystara-fans should check out the Tome of Mystara when it comes out I think - though I appreciate your interest in my article(s), there is a lot of other good stuff in there and I frequently admit that I don't get around to commenting on these as often as I should...

The link to the Tome of Mystara is:
<http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Bridge/3081/>

The direct link to my Swords of Wayland article is:
<http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/tomevol4/swords/swords1.html>
  ... and then click on from there - it's a rather long article (my own Word2000 file of it is 15 pages long!)

The link to my magical Tomes article is:
<http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/tomevol5/tomes.html>


Hope you find any of this interesting at all.


   - The Stalker



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:28:52 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
In-Reply-To:  <971813641.39ecb3098b8ac@members.uniserve.ca>
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At 13:14 10/17/2000 -0700, Wizards Shopper wrote:

>Well, using the WWM to explain a change in lycanthropy seems a little weak.
>It's stated in several places that lycanthropy is /not/ a magical disease, so
>whether or not there's magic shouldn't be a factor.

        But the demihumans are all magical races, aren't they? Hell, elves died
during the WWM. Couldn't that have changed them, thus allowing both new
classes and lycanthropy?

>However, elves, dwarves and halflings all /die/ of the disease, as
recorded in
>the history of Minrothad (the Silver Purge).  This being an important
event in
>the shaping of a nation, and being /completely/ based on this fact, there
>should be a very good reason for changing it, IMO.

        Well, since I haven't been able to get Minrothad, and my games aren't Sea
of Dread based yet, it's not much of an issue IMC.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:54:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Flaemish and Alphatian languages
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>
> That'd mean that the two enemy nations, Glantri and Alphatia, both speak
the
> same language: Flaemish!
>
in my opinion glantrians would generally speak the native tounge of
whichever of it's cultures the come from, but a general glantrian language
would be a mix of flaemish/alphatian and thyatian, as these are the main
influences on the founding of the nation.

mortus.

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:14:17 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
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>         There's a long history of people with the same, or similar,
cultures
> fighting bloody, awful, stupid wars.
>         Why, look at our Middle East.
>
or even europe.

mortus.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:18:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
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>         Ha! I'm 20th level 3E, which means I've got feats out the wazoo!
>
>         BEAU
>         http://www.LBY3.com/
why would you want feet growing out of your wazoo?
these third edition guys sure are strange;-)

mortus.

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:07:58 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Larry Lamb <Boondale@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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In a message dated 10/17/00 1:55:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

<< WWM. >>


What is this?

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:10:29 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM> wrote:

>         But the demihumans are all magical races, aren't they? Hell, =
elves died
> during the WWM. Couldn't that have changed them, thus allowing both =
new
> classes and lycanthropy?

I guess that elves are considered magical in OD&D, because they all have =
automatic access to mage spells. I don't think any of the other =
demi-human races are considered magical. And having elves gain new =
classes because of the WWM is just weird... :)
=20
> >However, elves, dwarves and halflings all /die/ of the disease, as =
recorded in
> >the history of Minrothad (the Silver Purge).  This being an important =
event in
> >the shaping of a nation, and being /completely/ based on this fact, =
there
> >should be a very good reason for changing it, IMO.
>=20
>         Well, since I haven't been able to get Minrothad, and my games =
aren't Sea
> of Dread based yet, it's not much of an issue IMC.

But this is the canon answer to your question, whether you're at the Sea =
of Dread or not (and aren't the Shires by the Sea of Dread?). If you =
want to do something, you are of course welcome to it. Please share if =
you do...

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:18:03 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE> wrote:

> > Indeed the almanacs list a number of Shadow Elven holidays as well =
as a few for the Glantrian elves, but none that seem related to Alfheim. =
I guess those flighty elves just threw a party when they felt like it... =
;)  Yes, yes, I know they're not really like that; just call me a =
prejudiced Ostlander.
>=20
> alfheim becomes aengmor - it is in the forest of canolbarth.
> is this right? - then i have some holyday of shadowelfs and other =
elfs.
>=20
> informations are out of the Poor Wizards Almanac3.

Yes, Aengmor is the former Alfheim in the (now twisted) Canolbarth =
Forest. But the holidays are decidedly Shadow elven in nature, and can't =
be used for other elves, since they're intrinsically linked to Shadow =
elven history and culture, not that of surface elves.

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk
.

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:28:05 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
In-Reply-To:  <003501c0387e$ae997060$7adb61d4@skytte>
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At 23:10 10/17/2000 +0200, Jacob Skytte wrote:
>Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM> wrote:
>
>>         But the demihumans are all magical races, aren't they? Hell,
elves died
>> during the WWM. Couldn't that have changed them, thus allowing both new
>> classes and lycanthropy?
>
>I guess that elves are considered magical in OD&D, because they all have
automatic access to mage spells. I don't think any of the other demi-human
races are considered magical. And having elves gain new classes because of
the WWM is just weird... :)

        Well, think of the Week Without Magic (WWM) as being a big reset button
being pressed. Many magical entities died. Others got sick.
        Others ... stuff shifted around inside.
        And don't all demihumans show some sort of inborn ability for magic,
whether it's spells, denial or just infravision?

>> >However, elves, dwarves and halflings all /die/ of the disease, as
recorded in
>> >the history of Minrothad (the Silver Purge).  This being an important
event in
>> >the shaping of a nation, and being /completely/ based on this fact, there
>> >should be a very good reason for changing it, IMO.
>>
>>         Well, since I haven't been able to get Minrothad, and my games
aren't Sea
>> of Dread based yet, it's not much of an issue IMC.
>
>But this is the canon answer to your question, whether you're at the Sea
of Dread or not (and aren't the Shires by the Sea of Dread?). If you want
to do something, you are of course welcome to it. Please share if you do...

        Yeah, the Shires are on the Sea of Dread, but once they get on a boat, I
have to be prepared for them to go anywhere, so at the moment, I'm
encouraging them to stay land-bound. At some point, though, they're likely
to wake up in the hold of a pirate ship at sea ...
        As for lycanthropy and history, history is just that. I'm actually making
lycanthropy an important part of the second act of my Karameikos campaign,
and if it could now spread to non-humans, that'd be even cooler.
        What WOULD it take to change how other races react to lycanthropy? In a
world where former mortals can lob meteors at the planet, surely this is
possible.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:39:51 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy
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Caroletti wrote:
>
> >
> >         I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear to be fatal
> > to demihumans anymore.
>
> Yeeeeech! I have to write this under my list of good reasons not to pass to 3E. If
> I find some place left on the tome I have written.

:)

Anyway, I don't think this is a major difference: I mean, you could
always keep it fatal, and it won't alter the balance of your campaign
that much... Moreover, in AD&D it is setting-dependant: in Ravenloft all
humanoids are subject to "normal" lycanthropy, an elf lycanthrope
species was presented in Dragon Magazine for 2e (think it was FR
setting), etc.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:26:44 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Thibault Sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: Dragon Mags
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yes titan gamesrules for this. great choice, small prices

III a �crit :

> I recently discovered that I am missing one installment of Voyage of the
> Princess Ark.  Any recommendations on places to purchase Dragon back issues
> online?
>
> -Andy Morrow
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Say Bye to Slow Internet!
> http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html
>
> ********************************************************************
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--
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage  http://www.mystara.com.bi
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at
clenarius@hotmail.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:53:58 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         John Calvin <chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>
      As for lycanthropy and history, history is just that. I'm actually making
 lycanthropy an important part of the second act of my Karameikos campaign,
 and if it could now spread to non-humans, that'd be even cooler.
         What WOULD it take to change how other races react to lycanthropy? In a
 world where former mortals can lob meteors at the planet, surely this is
 possible.

         BEAU
<<

Well, I'm going to plug an article I wrote for the Tome of Mystara issue #2.  It's not
for everybody I'm sure, but you may be able to pull something useful out of it.  One of
the things I toyed with was having the radiance modify lycanthropy to affect elves.  I
always liked the idea of shadow elven lycanthropes whos transformations were based not
upon the moon, but upon the amount of radiance buildup in their bodies.
There's other stuff in there as well of course.  Let me know if you find any of it
useful.

John



=====
Rule #46.
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one
man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.

from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach

__________________________________________________
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Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:49:11 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
In-Reply-To:  <971813641.39ecb3098b8ac@members.uniserve.ca>
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Wizards Shopper wrote:

> However, elves, dwarves and halflings all /die/ of the disease, as recorded in
> the history of Minrothad (the Silver Purge).  This being an important event in
> the shaping of a nation, and being /completely/ based on this fact, there
> should be a very good reason for changing it, IMO.

Also remember the history of Lycanthropy on Mystara. It was caused by
Alphatian meddling.

The only demi-humans that should be NOT killed by lycanthropy are those
who were not on Mystara and got infected by a non-Mystaran Werebeast, or
gnomes, since they seem to be immune.

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:56:24 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy
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> Anyway, I don't think this is a major difference: I mean, you could
> always keep it fatal, and it won't alter the balance of your campaign
> that much... Moreover, in AD&D it is setting-dependant: in Ravenloft all
> humanoids are subject to "normal" lycanthropy, an elf lycanthrope
> species was presented in Dragon Magazine for 2e (think it was FR
> setting), etc.
> --
>
>
>                 Giampaolo Agosta
>

Also, IIRC PC4 "Night Howlers" offers an alternatve rule that allows
Demi-humans to become lycanthropes. You can toy with the idea. Maybe just
elves die from the magical virus that causes lycanthropy. Maybe its all
demihumans and maybe none. And how about goblinoids? PC4 recomends that
goblinoids such as orcs can become lycanthropes and creatures such as trolls
can't.

I would suggest that each DM chooses which demihumans. humanoids are
affected, die or are immune. I don't think it can come up a lot in a
campaign unless you are playing with a humanoid party.
IMC I used to say that elves die from lycanthropy (to justify the Night of
Silver Blades  in Minrothad), humans halflings gnomes and orcs are effected,
goblins dwarves and most others are immune.

Morphail

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:16:14 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Dave Keyser <dave@PALMCHIP.COM>
Organization: Palmchip
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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Wizards Shopper wrote:

> Quoting Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>:
>
> [snip]
> >         I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear
> > to be fatal
> > to demihumans anymore. At first, I rebelled against this, but what if
> > this
> > was an effect of the Week Without Magic? (Which could also, IMO, explain
> > the emergence of new classes amongst other races.)
> >         What are the pros and cons of making lycanthropy a threat to all
> > humanoids
> > and demihumans? (And don't say "tradition," because my players and I
> > don't
> > care.)
>
> Well, using the WWM to explain a change in lycanthropy seems a little weak.
> It's stated in several places that lycanthropy is /not/ a magical disease, so
> whether or not there's magic shouldn't be a factor.

I assume you mean 3E states that lycanthropy is not a magical disease?  Because
in Mystara products, it states that it is a magical virus.

Dave Keyser

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:13:42 -0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Victor Caminha <wykthor@ESQUADRO.COM.BR>
Subject:      Re: Expanding
In-Reply-To:  <001f01c0385c$813ed820$227cfea9@eduardo>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 15:05 17/10/00 -0200, you wrote:
>> >  An personal interest question: Is there any brazilian guy in this list?

Uhn? /me brushing away the lurker's cobwebs . Yeah, another Brazilian
here..not active in the list but still alive (portuguese: Legal encontrar
mais fans de Mystara alem do Tziemisce por aqui, contatos em PVT sempre bem
vindos  :)

Victor Caminha

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:36:02 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Greg Pratt <Magesmiley@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Benekander problem
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In a message dated 10/16/00 6:15:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> This is a spoiler: please, those who wish to roleplay WotI read no further;
>  instead, those who are going to DM it should read.
>
>  ******************************************************************
>
>  Here's another questions for the List:
>  In a short time I am planning to start DMing WotI to my group.
>
>  Well... the first part expects them to trust Benekander and offer
themselves
>  (one of them, that is) in exchange for him into his mirror.
>
>  I find it very unlikely that my group of egothistic and paranoid players
>  (they love to call themselves "of Neutral alignement") would trust him and
>  agree. This could make the introduction to the second part (Benekander
>  offering them another job) an extremely uneven event.
>
>  How would you put the whole thing another way round and make it either
>  acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing or else induce
>  Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage? Please, advise.
>
>  Thank you.
>
>  Federico

As far as getting the players to trust him, I have little advice there (my
players haven't reached this point quite yet, but I think that I can count on
a couple of them to be at least somewhat altruistic).

If they refuse to trust him (or you think they will) you might look at
finding a way to give the players an alternative motivation for freeing him.
Some ideas might include greed (maybe there's a big gem or something in the
mirror with Benekander), escape (life in the mirror vs death in a very bad
situation outside) someone triggers a trap which forces them to do this
(geas/quest), or some sort of a prophecy  - either dooming those who refused
to help or giving some sort of benefit to the one who does (if its pretty
clear what the benefit is they'll probably be fighting to be the one to do
it).

Assuming that they still don't free him you still need a way to work
Benekander back in. Benekander would probably recognize their abilities at
being able to recover the shield from the Keep and possibly consider them for
future work (he doesn't exactly know many adventurers initially). Money often
will solve many problems of trust for players. Another possibility might be
they require some sort of a service (high level dispel or whatever) and
Benekander provides it for them in return for work (this one is pretty easy -
leave a magic item for them somewhere which has side effects they need help
with). One other possibility might be that Benekander bails them out of a bad
situation in return for work (possibly enforced with a geas).

Hope these ideas help.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:39:56 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Master's Pawn <BoBoII@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What makes something "Mystara"
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In a message dated 10/16/2000 1:39:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

<< And for
 >all their happiness the people of Hule thank Hosadus, the great Master,
 >who has revealed unto us the life of greatness. >>

As a devoted servant of  his holiness, I take exception to the
"Thiatification" of our Honored Master's name.  To those of use who live in
the blessed light of the Great Valley, we know him, and love him, (the Light
be Praised) as HOSAD. [Ho' sahd]

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:39:57 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Master's Pawn <BoBoII@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Volospin Anastasia (was language)
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In a message dated 10/16/2000 1:37:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

<<     Or they did. The last thing most of them said was "what the hell is
that
 up in the sky?"
  >>

One of my favorite subplots to introduce would be a "Anastasia" type daughter
to claim decent from the Volospin line (I think there was one mentioned in
the Gaz)  She might be legit, having been outside of Blackhill at the time,
or perhaps she was nobly teleported away by her father at the last instant,
or she is a Alphatian pretender who survived the Sinking, (or as some
Alphatians demurely refer to it "The Recent Unpleasantness")

At any rate, she appears on the social scene in Glantri city, with her
strings being pulled by a lot of different factions, demanding . . . . well,
that's up to your campaign, but it could be a new Dominion for Blackhill
survivors (with Pure Alphatians sneaking in as 'cousins') or just access to
the money left behind in the Glantrian banks . . . .that is if the Government
didn't nationalize it.  Its up to you.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:43:59 +1300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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> Perhaps it's different for clerics, who receive spells from their
Immortals,
> and for creatures with innate magical abilities, but, IMO, magic-user's
> memorization and study is not a magical process, but a mundane one; it is
> the casting which is magical. Is there any D&D book where something is
said
> about the nature of "memorizing spells"???
>
> Andres

rules cyclopedia to name just one. It's something about burning the patterns
of the spell to your mind. If magic dissappears these patterns do not change
but they now don't do anything.

Chris.


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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:41:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
MIME-Version: 1.0
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SteelAngel wrote:
>
> The only demi-humans that should be NOT killed by lycanthropy are those
> who were not on Mystara and got infected by a non-Mystaran Werebeast, or
> gnomes, since they seem to be immune.

The simple answer seems to be "Change the rule for Mystara."

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:45:09 CDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         "Byron D. Molix" <lockheart1930@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      3e Mystara and Lycanthropcy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

To be fair, you have to look at it from all sorts of
ways.  What Beau was asking wasn't is this kosher, but
how would you explain this, assuming you wanted to.
Most people can come up with at least one plausible
reason for something they don't support, it's what
being a devil's advocate is about.

There are a couple of stances put forth:

OD&D is right and 3e is wrong

OD&D used to be right, but it's different now

There have been many responses for the first stance,
but in attempting to support the second stance, there
are lots of things you can do.

1) There could be a new immortal who makes it his or
her first post-immortality task to alter the nature of
Lycanthropy for whatever reason.  This immortal would
likely see Lycanthropes as his or her children and the
fact that you don't gain children but lose potential
ones is unsettling.

It'd be like a game of let's play the diety where 40
percent of all converts to your religion die.  At
whatever point you want to introduce this, that immortal
has succeeded to some degree.  Lycanthropy is no longer
a magical virus, but perhaps a disease, or a magical
curse instead of a virus (even elves are affected by
curses.)

2) The aforementioned week without magic altering things
on a fundamental level could explain lots of
inconsistencies about the campaign world's old
suppositions and new examples of phenomena. Maybe this
changed lycanthropy or demi-humans in some way that
allows this.

3) Did you ever wonder what would happen if a powerful
wizard had lost lots of family and companions to
werebeasts, to the point of losing sanity? Such a
character might try to alter the 'virus' in such a way
that it can't be spread to uninfected people, but
changes encountered old-strain types into the new
strain.  This solution is a localized-to-global spread
concept, but it could work.  It likely wouldn't become
obvious until the new strain hit Glantri and it's too
late to do anything by then.  A wizard like this would
likely also alter the virus so that a very long, painful
death was attached. Of course the whole thing backfires,
so that instead of being noncommunicable, it becomes
more communicable.  Migratory were-wolves are all of a
sudden capable of infecting halfling villages, which
carries over into the elven forest etc.

Immortal artifact, yada yada, I think you're getting
the picture by now.  There are lots of reasons why it
could happen.  Let's cease to focus on why it couldn't
happen, since that has absolutely nothing to do with
what Beau asked in the first place.  Especially if
there are canon exceptions to it being an
impossibility.

I would say that Mystara is the only (A)D&D game world where there are
absolutely no impossibilities, because there is an exception for everything
hidden somewhere in some part of the world.

Byron
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:56:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>rules cyclopedia to name just one. It's something about burning the
patterns
>of the spell to your mind. If magic dissappears these patterns do not
change
>but they now don't do anything.

Good, but then how can then spells be still memorized in the Hollow World if
they're forbidden??
Cannot then spells be memorized when inside an anti-magic area? I don't
know, maybe the WWM is unique for that, otherwise there would be not one Day
of Dread per year but two! first Kaldmont 28th, when no magic works, then
Nuwmont 1st, cuz spellcasters won't have had time to study and rest for any
meaningful spell!!

Andr�s

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:01:23 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Caroletti wrote:
>
> Yeeeeech! I have to write this under my list of good reasons not to pass to 3E. If
> I find some place left on the tome I have written.
> Rant over.

It's best to consider that 3e presents a baseline. That baseline is a
starting point, not a definition. The assumption in the 3e MM is that
you'll take lycanthropy, or liches, or what-have-you and make them your
own. The baseline doesn't state that demihumans die if they catch
lycanthropy, but nothing stops anyone from making that change for
Mystara - and nothing *should* stop anyone.

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:49:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         "David S. Leland" <dleland@COGSCI.UCSD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy
In-Reply-To:  <39ED2EA3.1D531A@teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Caroletti wrote:

 > Yeeeeech! I have to write this under my list of good reasons not
to
 > pass to 3E. If I find some place left on the tome I have written.
 > Rant over.

        Some rules have a big impact on other rules of the game.  Who is
affected how by lycanthropy doesn't strike me as one of them.  It
seems easy to say that, as with many other 3Eisms, the lycanthropy
rules are based on the "default" Greyhawk world.  In other campaigns,
like Mystaran ones, lycanthropy can work differently, just as we
might want to redefine the traits of races (e.g. inventor gnomes, not
illusionists, for some).

Magus Coeruleus of Mystara

dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu
cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland

"The only distinction between Bush and Gore is the
velocity with which their knees hit the floor when
big corporations knock on their door." -Ralph Nader
           --->>> votenader.org <<<---

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:06:24 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Andr�s wrote:

I don't
know, maybe the WWM is unique for that, otherwise there would be
not one Day
of Dread per year but two! first Kaldmont 28th, when no magic
works, then
Nuwmont 1st, cuz spellcasters won't have had time to study and
rest for any
meaningful spell!!

*********************

I don't understand: on Kaldmont 28th no magic works, but on Nuwmont 1st,
after you've normally slept well (magic failure doesn't prevent from
sleeping well - while escaping a mob of angry Glantrian citizens sometimes
does), you can normally memorize new spells or use those that you didn't
foul up the day before; and all magical items work...

So: why do you imagine 2 Days of Dread?


Federico
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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:00:08 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      hello to everybody
Content-Type: text/plain
Mime-Version: 1.0

Hello to everyone, I'm a new member of the MML.
I'm italian and I want to greet all.
(if someone want to send me a private e-mail, this is my address: L_Giuliani@altavista.it)


AltaVista Free email service

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:11:24 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      [3E] Mystaran Demons v1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
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Hi,
yesterday I bought the Monster Manual and made up some stats for the good
old D&D demons/fiends.
The stats are not quite complete, but I would like to get some feedback on
whats been done before I complete them.
Also, if someone could tell me how to figure out the Saving Throw bonuses
for monsters in 3E id be greatful.

Thanks!

Oh, this is where the demons can be found:
http://home.nvg.org/~hoc/m_demons.html

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:16:16 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
Content-Type: text/plain
Mime-Version: 1.0

Il Wed, 18 October 2000, Federico Kaftal ha scritto:

>
> Andr�s wrote:
>
> I don't
> know, maybe the WWM is unique for that, otherwise there would be
> not one Day
> of Dread per year but two! first Kaldmont 28th, when no magic
> works, then
> Nuwmont 1st, cuz spellcasters won't have had time to study and
> rest for any
> meaningful spell!!
>
> *********************
>
> I don't understand: on Kaldmont 28th no magic works, but on Nuwmont 1st,
> after you've normally slept well (magic failure doesn't prevent from
> sleeping well - while escaping a mob of angry Glantrian citizens sometimes
> does), you can normally memorize new spells or use those that you didn't
> foul up the day before; and all magical items work...
>
> So: why do you imagine 2 Days of Dread?
>
>
> Federico
>

Ho una domanda anch'io (scrivo in italiano almeno riesco a farmi capire da qualcuno): dato che RAD in pratica "non esiste pi�" la magia su mystara, a parte il "Day of Dread" non correrebbe pi� rischi, giusto?
Ma la radianza che usano gli Shadow elves con la Chamber of Spheres non ha effetti sulla magia di mystara?


AltaVista Free email service

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:40:28 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Day of Dread
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Before a flame starts towards the poor Leonardo:

Leonardo, non puoi scrivere in Italiano sulla MML, altrimenti ognuno
scriverebbe nella propria lingua e nessuno ci capirebbe niente: devi usare
per forza l'Inglese.

(i.e.: Leonardo, you may NOT write in Italian on the MML, otherwise
everybody would write in their own language and nobody would understand each
others: you must use English)

***************

I will translate for him this time; please excuse, as he's new to the List:
Leonardo's questions were:

Since RAD practically "no longer exists" then magic on Mystara, apart from
the "Day of Dread" no longer risks extinction, correct?
But what about the Radiance used by Shadow elves with their Chamber of
Spheres? Hasn't it any effect on Mystaran magic?

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:06:54 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001017123324.007c3750@lby3.com>
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At 12:33 PM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>        I was sort of surprised to see that lycanthropy doesn't appear to
be >fatal to demihumans anymore. At first, I rebelled against this, but
what if this
>was an effect of the Week Without Magic? (Which could also, IMO, explain
>the emergence of new classes amongst other races.)
>        What are the pros and cons of making lycanthropy a threat to all
humanoids
>and demihumans? (And don't say "tradition," because my players and I don't
>care.)

Lycanthropy was only fatal to demihumans in OD&D- it was never that way in
AD&D or 2nd Edition. I think the main reason behind it was that in OD&D,
demihumans had all sorts of "other" abilities that humans didn't get
(particularly elves), and that it might be overpowering.

Under the circumstances, now that everyone is on more or less equal footing
class wise, it isn't as big an issue as it was. Explaining it was an effect
of the Week of No Magic (or something similar) would be plenty fine, I'd
imagine- especially as the rule never seemed to apply unilaterally (ie,
there is a gnomish weretiger in PC2: Top Ballista).

If you wanted to keep the disease as being fatal to dwarves, elves, and
halflings, I don't see where there would be any real problems with that
either. The major results as I see them would just be campaign/roleplaying
oriented- ie, creatures to whom lycanthropy is fatal will be staunch
opponents of any sort of lycanthropic beings. For instance, the Erewan and
Belcadiz elves will strongly oppose any sort of political lobbying on
behalf of werewolves in Glantri, out of a sense of self-preservation.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:12:40 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy (was 3E MM and Mystara)
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Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM> wrote:

>         Well, think of the Week Without Magic (WWM) as being a big =
reset button
> being pressed. Many magical entities died. Others got sick.
>         Others ... stuff shifted around inside.

All right, I'll stop just saying that I don't think it's a good =
explanation, but I really don't... :)  Still, as you will see below, I =
use it myself (double standards, and all that...), it is, after all, the =
standard explanation for any changes in Mystara...I guess it just sounds =
silly to me that 'after the week witout magic, elves suddenly discover =
that they're able to become =
paladins/monks/whatever-class-they-used-to-be-restricted-from'. All =
right, all right, I said I would stop...sorry...

>         And don't all demihumans show some sort of inborn ability for =
magic,
> whether it's spells, denial or just infravision?

I guess that it's practically impossible to define what a magical race =
is (wasn't it attempted some time ago?). The only race we know is =
magical are elves, since they're mentioned as an example of such in WotI =
(book II, p. 89).
I never saw infravision as magical, but rather as the natural ability to =
see lower frequencies of electromagnetic waves. But I suppose 3E defines =
it as magical? As for denial, since it only works in the Shires IIRC, I =
don't think that it can be considered a magical ability of the Hin, but =
rather the Hin drawing upon the magic of the land due to their =
attunement to it.

>         What WOULD it take to change how other races react to =
lycanthropy? In a
> world where former mortals can lob meteors at the planet, surely this =
is
> possible.

I have two suggestions:
1) The magical virus lycanthropy mutates during the WWM. It now affects =
all sorts of races, and perhaps has some additional nasty side effects. =
In all likelihood this only happens in one isolated area, so there are =
now two different strains of the virus. If the new strain is more =
contagious, the affected could catch up in numbers, and one could =
imagine all sorts of cool events. Ex. the War of the Werewolves, where =
victims of the different strains try to exterminate each other; if you =
want to go with the new 3E strain, they win; perhaps the old =
lycanthropes can be infected with the new strain. In a few years (or =
months if you're in a hurry) practically every existing lycanthrope now =
carries the new strain, and 'old-type' lycanthropes are forced to leave =
the Known World if they wish to preserve their nature. Lots of details =
could be worked out here.

2) The magical virus lycanthropy dies during the WWM. Existing =
lycanthropes are cured or die. However, soon after the WWM, an Immortal =
(or whatever plot device you prefer) reinstates lycanthropy, though in =
an altered form, so that lycanthropy will not die or be suppressed =
during future Days of Dread (DoD). Lycanthropy now works whatever way =
you think it should. Former victims of lycanthropy are routinely =
reinfected (a few of them might be overlooked if you're generous).

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:19:29 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: 3e Mystara and Lycanthropcy
In-Reply-To:  <LAW2-F200MAv7Nf408600005b83@hotmail.com>
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At 11:45 PM 10/17/00 CDT, you wrote:
>
>1) There could be a new immortal who makes it his or
>her first post-immortality task to alter the nature of
>Lycanthropy for whatever reason.  This immortal would
>likely see Lycanthropes as his or her children and the
>fact that you don't gain children but lose potential
>ones is unsettling.

This is a good suggestion, and there are at least two candidates for
Immortality mentioned in PC4 who would be likely to modify lycanthropy in
such a manner.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:27:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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At 01:14 PM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>As to whether lycanthropy should be a threat to all humanoids and demihumans,
>well ...
>
>It appears that gnomes are not much affected by lycanthropy.  In Top
Ballista,
>there's an NPC gnome flyer that is a pseudo-weretiger -- his only
side-effects
>are that he grows whiskers and growls when he gets angry, or something.

Actually, he is a full fledged weretiger. ("an unpublicized rarity",
according to PC2). "In the heat of battle, Gundal sometimes shapechanges
into a weretiger of gnomish proportions."

Also, while we're at it, let us not forget Moghul-Khan, leader of the
Yellow Orcs, who is also a Devil Swine.

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:36:40 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001018030654.007ea310@pop.wans.net>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote:

> Lycanthropy was only fatal to demihumans in OD&D- it was never that way in
> AD&D or 2nd Edition. I think the main reason behind it was that in OD&D,
> demihumans had all sorts of "other" abilities that humans didn't get
> (particularly elves), and that it might be overpowering.

Even in OD&D PC4 has the optional rule which allows Mystaran demihumans to
become lycanthropes.
Personally, I don't think allowing demihuman lycanthropes has any dramatic
consequences to the setting, and I like the idea of elven werefoxes and
hin wererats, so I wouldn't think much on changing that rule.

But as you say, if people think this goes against "the spirit of Mystara",
its not much of a problem to change that rule for their campaigns.

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:47:17 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Beau wrote:

>         Surprisingly good coverage of Mystara in the new Monster
> Manual, IMO. I'm a little sorry that the aranea, choker, et al will no
> longer be exclusive monsters, but if a legacy is the best thing that
> can be hoped for from Mystara and WotC, it's better that than nothing.
> (And, frankly, we seem to have gotten a better treatment than the
> Ravenloft crowd, although Planescape seems to be well supported so
> far.)

IMO we should make an effort to claim these beasties for out
setting. Okay, so Aranea, Chokers, Nightshades and Ropers (anyone
else?) now also exist in other D&D settings, but we can make them better
integrated with the Mystara setting.

The Aranea are already pretty well integrated with the Savage Coast and
Isle of Dawn material, but whatabout these others?

Chokers are found in Rockhome, but thats about all we know about them.

Whatabout the Ropers?

Do the Immortals of Entropy use Nightshades for special missions? We know
there is a nightwing in Glantri.

Anyone wanna do Mystara-specific "Ecology Of" articles on these monsters?

Whatabout a "The Aranea of Mystara" ala Bruce Heards articles in Dragon?
Bruce, if youre there, pretty please do this! :)

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:53:07 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
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H�vard wrote:
>
> IMO we should make an effort to claim these beasties for out
> setting. Okay, so Aranea, Chokers, Nightshades and Ropers (anyone
> else?) now also exist in other D&D settings, but we can make them better
> integrated with the Mystara setting.

What? Ropers have always existed in other settings. It didn't come from
the Known World, it was in a monster manual or Fiend Folio or something.

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
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 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:55:47 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:13:17   Andris Piquer Otero wrote:
>>I disagree. No way to do so, in a Week Without Magic
>
>
>Well, that's interesting... in the Day of Dread and Week without magic, all
>magic fails to work, but, cannot spells be studied???? Maybe, maybe not.
>That sounds like forbidden spells in the HW, you can study or meditate for
>them, but they are useless if you cast them.

As might be expected I agree with the latter. To be fair, though, this is an unclear gray area in the rules, so the argument could go either way. To me the process of learning and studying the spells is not a magical one, so it seems quite reasonable that the wizards would be able to restudy their spells during such a time (assuming they had their spellbooks with them, of course). Then again, there are also the spells to consider that the wizards already had memorized when magic failed, as I'm quite certain that they did memorize Teleport spells so that they could go home after the attack. Since they never got to use them (and couldn't cast them during the WWK) these would still be memorized because a spellcaster does not lose his memory of a spell just because he loses the ability to cast it (or else no wizard would ever use Anti-Magic Shell, I think.

>Perhaps it's different for clerics, who receive spells from their Immortals,
>and for creatures with innate magical abilities, but, IMO, magic-user's
>memorization and study is not a magical process, but a mundane one; it is
>the casting which is magical.

Whichever way, I'm rather sure it's the same for any spellcaster because no difference have ever been described in any source I've seen (and it is a subject of interest to me).

> Is there any D&D book where something is said
>about the nature of "memorizing spells"???
>

Apart from the obvious rulebooks, I can't think of any. IMHO this was never described because TSR/WOTC never considered the possibility, but we could always ask the 'sage' (Skip Williams) if we really *DO* need to know, I suppose...


   - The Stalker



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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:56:47 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand
              Wizards)
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> Ho una domanda anch'io (scrivo in italiano almeno riesco a farmi
capire da qualcuno):


> dato che RAD in pratica "non esiste pi=F9" la magia su mystara, a parte
il "Day of Dread" non correrebbe pi=F9 rischi, giusto?

The question was: "since Rad does not exist anymore, there is no risk of
further loss of magic on Mystara, save for the already established Day
of Dread?"

Answer: False. The Brotherhood of Radiance still exists, and so does the
Nucleus. It drains Entropy instead of Energy, but the effects are
unknown.


> Ma la radianza che usano gli Shadow elves con la Chamber of Spheres
non ha effetti sulla magia di mystara?

Question: "has the Shadow Elves' Radiance through the Chamber of the
Spheres any effect on magic on Mystara?"

Answer: it has no effect, because the CoS was built with this purpose by
Rafiel. Also, the SE Radiance never had an effect of that kind, even
when they did not use the CoS, IIRC. Look it up in the SE Gaz.
--

        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:04:16 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy (was 3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <005101c038ec$09b57c60$e3db61d4@skytte>
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At 12:12 PM 10/18/00 +0200, you wrote:
>
>I have two suggestions:
>1) The magical virus lycanthropy mutates during the WWM. It now affects
all sorts >of races, and perhaps has some additional nasty side effects.

This is a good explanation as well. In fact, there is certainly precedent
for it in the history of lycanthropy in PC4- lycanthropy has been mutating
ever since it was first inadvertently released upon Mystara. And with the
sinking of Alphatia, the ACDC (Alphatian Center for Disease Control) isn't
going to be nearly as capable of containing/controlling/destroying it as
before.

Heck, it doesn't even have to be the WWM. It could have been released from
ACDC centers during the WWM, or during the events of the Great War (perhaps
as part of an experimental new virus that was being tested in the East
Portage ACDC center, but was accidentally released during attacks on EP
during the war? Or even more recently, in the post-wrath attacks on EP- AC
1010/1011?)

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:07:12 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010181241550.6037-100000@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no >
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At 12:47 PM 10/18/00 +0200, you wrote:
>
>Whatabout the Ropers?

Ropers aren't exclusively Mystaran. They have appeared in several AD&D
products (not to mention the 2nd Edition Monster Manual).

>Do the Immortals of Entropy use Nightshades for special missions? We know
>there is a nightwing in Glantri.

There is also a Nightwalker standing guard over the soul of the brother of
a certain Nagpa in the ruins of Varellya.

The VotPA article on Limbo mentions that Nightshades are used as constructs
of either Entropics or Masters of Chaos (I forget which) operating out of
Limbo.

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:10:08 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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> At 01:14 PM 10/17/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
> Also, while we're at it, let us not forget Moghul-Khan, leader of the
> Yellow Orcs, who is also a Devil Swine.

In this case, I'll consider it a racial tendency: Orc's Head orcs are
also subject to endemic Devil Swine infection.
Lycanthropy in Mystara seems to be already strongly related with
specific races, especially Alphatians (the original strains), Flaems
(Bear/Boar), Averoignans (Wolf), and Orcs (Devil Swine).
--


        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:15:39 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
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--

On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:36:02   Greg Pratt wrote:
>In a message dated 10/16/00 6:15:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
>> This is a spoiler: please, those who wish to roleplay WotI read no further;
>>  instead, those who are going to DM it should read.
>>
>>  ******************************************************************
>>
>>  Here's another questions for the List:
>>  In a short time I am planning to start DMing WotI to my group.
>>
>>  Well... the first part expects them to trust Benekander and offer
>themselves
>>  (one of them, that is) in exchange for him into his mirror.
>>
>>  I find it very unlikely that my group of egothistic and paranoid players
>>  (they love to call themselves "of Neutral alignement") would trust him and
>>  agree. This could make the introduction to the second part (Benekander
>>  offering them another job) an extremely uneven event.
>>
>>  How would you put the whole thing another way round and make it either
>>  acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing or else induce
>>  Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage? Please, advise.
>>
>>  Thank you.
>>
>>  Federico
>
>As far as getting the players to trust him, I have little advice there (my
>players haven't reached this point quite yet, but I think that I can count on
>a couple of them to be at least somewhat altruistic).
>

The players IMC were simply far too curious about Benekander and his *really* wierd story to leave him in there. Make sure you have him describe the space ship as a medieval person would understand it (really fun if you get it right - my players are still wondering about this years later!) Also make sure to have him point heavily toward the menace that threatens Mystara from his old ship (the NoS) and have him point out repeatedly that he cannot give more information about this threat as long as he's trapped in the mirror (which is true)! Players may not be altruistic all the time, but they can scarcely afford to ignore a threat to their entire world... If they want to leave the mirror behind, let them! Then hit them repeatedly with bad omens about horrible things to come (you can even use my own Doomsday prophecies, the "Calamity Star" (found on Shawn's site under campaign ideas), if you want to - they're pretty ominous and work *quite* well IMC), and also let them have dreams that suggest that if they go back to free the man in the mirror, then they might be able to influence the outcome...


>If they refuse to trust him (or you think they will) you might look at
>finding a way to give the players an alternative motivation for freeing him.
>Some ideas might include greed (maybe there's a big gem or something in the
>mirror with Benekander),

If they're already quite greedy, then I wouldn't recommend this. I'd point more toward that if they're 'neutral' then they cannot ignore this. After all, if the world is destroyed, where will they live and use their wealth? :)

> escape (life in the mirror vs death in a very bad
>situation outside) someone triggers a trap which forces them to do this
>(geas/quest), or some sort of a prophecy  - either dooming those who refused
>to help or giving some sort of benefit to the one who does (if its pretty
>clear what the benefit is they'll probably be fighting to be the one to do
>it).
>
>Assuming that they still don't free him you still need a way to work
>Benekander back in. Benekander would probably recognize their abilities at
>being able to recover the shield from the Keep and possibly consider them for
>future work (he doesn't exactly know many adventurers initially).

It could also be interesting to have a rival group of adventurers do heroic efforts for which they're greatly rewarded and renowned, and then reveal that this is because they found and freed Rheddrian, who is now their helpful patron, then have them join Rheddrian (remember that he's looking for many allies) after he puts them through a suitably difficult mission so that they can regain his trust (he'd be pretty mad at them for leaving him behind, I think, but saving Mystara comes first).

>Money often
>will solve many problems of trust for players. Another possibility might be
>they require some sort of a service (high level dispel or whatever) and
>Benekander provides it for them in return for work (this one is pretty easy -
>leave a magic item for them somewhere which has side effects they need help
>with). One other possibility might be that Benekander bails them out of a bad
>situation in return for work (possibly enforced with a geas).
>

Yes, I agree. When the PCs are in trouble, Benekander can help them. IMC I had monsters summoned by Alphatians spill into other nations, particularly Darokin where the PCs lurk frequently. One such encounter was with a couple of Basilisks, which promptly turned the PC minotaur fighter to stone of course! Benekander volunteered to turn him back again, and even teleported to the party so that they wouldn't lose too much time in their adventures... If you illustrate a problem like that (transporting a huge minotaur 'statue' to the nearest wizard of level 12+ is no small problem), then players tend to remember who their friends are.

>Hope these ideas help.
>

As do I :)


   - The Stalker



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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:27:40 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:06:24   Federico Kaftal wrote:
>Andris wrote:
>
>I don't
>know, maybe the WWM is unique for that, otherwise there would be
>not one Day
>of Dread per year but two! first Kaldmont 28th, when no magic
>works, then
>Nuwmont 1st, cuz spellcasters won't have had time to study and
>rest for any
>meaningful spell!!
>
>*********************
>
>I don't understand: on Kaldmont 28th no magic works, but on Nuwmont 1st,
>after you've normally slept well (magic failure doesn't prevent from
>sleeping well - while escaping a mob of angry Glantrian citizens sometimes
>does), you can normally memorize new spells or use those that you didn't
>foul up the day before; and all magical items work...
>
>So: why do you imagine 2 Days of Dread?
>

I think I know what he's trying to say, because it was a point I was going to make too, except Andris beat me to it :)

Magic fails on the Day of Dread - period!

If this ruins memorizations of spells, then the next day, a spellcaster would need to rememorize all the spells he wants. If you go by 2e rules, that can take quite a lot of time (1= hour for each 9th-level spell, for example), so if we're talking about paritcularly high-leveled spellcasters (such as Alphatians of the Thousand Wizards), then rememorizing all their spells would take all day and so practically mean that they would face the DoD's effects twice. Not really two DoD, but the net effect would be the same. This doesn't matter in OD&D (or BD&D as some prefer) where there were no such rules (or did it just take one hour no matter how many or few spells?), or in 3e, where memorizing spells never takes more than 1 hour IIRC.


   - The Stalker



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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:33:02 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Gordon McCormick <gmcc@ESATCLEAR.IE>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001018040712.008014c0@pop.wans.net>; from
              jsmill@WANS.NET on Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 04:07:12AM -0700
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On Wed, Oct 18, 2000 at 04:07:12AM -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote:
> At 12:47 PM 10/18/00 +0200, you wrote:
>
> >Do the Immortals of Entropy use Nightshades for special missions? We know
> >there is a nightwing in Glantri.
>
> There is also a Nightwalker standing guard over the soul of the brother of
> a certain Nagpa in the ruins of Varellya.
>
> The VotPA article on Limbo mentions that Nightshades are used as constructs
> of either Entropics or Masters of Chaos (I forget which) operating out of
> Limbo.

There's also a Nightwing in Oenkmar. They get everywhere!

gordon

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:47:08 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Re: hello to everybody
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Leonardo Giuliani ha scritto:

> Hello to everyone, I'm a new member of the MML.
> I'm italian and I want to greet all.
> (if someone want to send me a private e-mail, this is my address: L_Giuliani@altavista.it)
>

Are you one of those I contacted at ModCon?

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:59:39 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <39ED8113.E3583584@teleport.com>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

> H�vard wrote:
> >
> > IMO we should make an effort to claim these beasties for out
> > setting. Okay, so Aranea, Chokers, Nightshades and Ropers (anyone
> > else?) now also exist in other D&D settings, but we can make them better
> > integrated with the Mystara setting.
>
> What? Ropers have always existed in other settings. It didn't come from
> the Known World, it was in a monster manual or Fiend Folio or something.

AFAIK Ropers appeared in both editions of the D&D creature catalogue. It
was not part of the Monsterous Compendiums (maybe the Mystaran one?), but
was later introduced to AD&D in the Monsterous Manual (for 2nd Ed)

Even if the appeared in 1st Ed (Are you sure about this?), I think we have
a strong case for making the Ropers strongly connnected with Mystara.

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:43:58 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
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H=E5vard <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO> wrote:

> > What? Ropers have always existed in other settings. It didn't come =
from
> > the Known World, it was in a monster manual or Fiend Folio or =
something.
>=20
> AFAIK Ropers appeared in both editions of the D&D creature catalogue. =
It
> was not part of the Monsterous Compendiums (maybe the Mystaran one?), =
but
> was later introduced to AD&D in the Monsterous Manual (for 2nd Ed)

AFAIK Ropers originally appeared for OD&D in XL1: Quest for the =
Heartstone (1984), and was then included in AC9: Creature Catalogue, in =
1986. I don't know about 1st ed., though... Btw isn't the 2nd ed. MC =
illustration kinda weird? Doesn't the Roper depicted seem to have *two* =
eyes? And do those teeth look *sharp* to you?

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:52:56 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I wrote:
>>AFAIK Ropers originally appeared for OD&D in XL1: Quest for the =
Heartstone (1984), and was then included in AC9: Creature Catalogue, in =
1986. I don't know about 1st ed., though...<<

Oh, and since the Roper was an official Advanced Dungeons and Dragons =
Action Toy (the Raging Roper Bendable Monster), it's likely that AD&D =
can lay claim to it's origin.

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:51:16 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      3e Mystara and Lycanthropy
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Andrew Theisen wrote:

[snipe...] and there are at least two candidates for Immortality mentioned
in PC4 who would be likely to modify lycanthropy in such a manner.

************

Who are they?
Could you outline these two guys for those of us who do not have access to
PC4 Night Howlers?

Thank you.

Federico

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:03:58 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Benekander problem
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed

Hey! That's the first time in my life I have to thank a nasty Alphatian mage
for his contribution.

Well.. those tender teddy bears are not that evil, indeed :)

Federico


*************************
Original message follows:
*************************

On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:36:02   Greg Pratt wrote:
>In a message dated 10/16/00 6:15:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
>>This is a spoiler: please, those who wish to roleplay WotI
read no further;
>>  instead, those who are going to DM it should read.
>>
>>
******************************************************************
>>
>>  Here's another questions for the List:
>>  In a short time I am planning to start DMing WotI to my
group.
>>
>>  Well... the first part expects them to trust Benekander and
offer
>themselves
>>  (one of them, that is) in exchange for him into his mirror.
>>
>>  I find it very unlikely that my group of egothistic and
paranoid players
>>  (they love to call themselves "of Neutral alignement") would
trust him and
>>  agree. This could make the introduction to the second part
(Benekander
>>  offering them another job) an extremely uneven event.
>>
>>  How would you put the whole thing another way round and make
it either
>>  acceptable for them to trust Benekander in the mirror thing
or else induce
>>  Benekander to contact them once more at a later stage?
Please, advise.
>>
>>  Thank you.
>>
>>  Federico
>
>As far as getting the players to trust him, I have little
advice there (my
>players haven't reached this point quite yet, but I think that
I can count on
>a couple of them to be at least somewhat altruistic).
>

The players IMC were simply far too curious about Benekander and
his *really* wierd story to leave him in there. Make sure you
have him describe the space ship as a medieval person would
understand it (really fun if you get it right - my players are
still wondering about this years later!) Also make sure to have
him point heavily toward the menace that threatens Mystara from
his old ship (the NoS) and have him point out repeatedly that he
cannot give more information about this threat as long as he's
trapped in the mirror (which is true)! Players may not be
altruistic all the time, but they can scarcely afford to ignore
a threat to their entire world... If they want to leave the
mirror behind, let them! Then hit them repeatedly with bad omens
about horrible things to come (you can even use my own Doomsday
prophecies, the "Calamity Star" (found on Shawn's site under
campaign ideas), if you want to - they're pretty ominous and
work *quite* well IMC), and also let them have dreams that
suggest that if they go back to free the man in the mirror, then
they might be able to influence the outcome...


>If they refuse to trust him (or you think they will) you might
look at
>finding a way to give the players an alternative motivation for
freeing him.
>Some ideas might include greed (maybe there's a big gem or
something in the
>mirror with Benekander),

If they're already quite greedy, then I wouldn't recommend this.
I'd point more toward that if they're 'neutral' then they cannot
ignore this. After all, if the world is destroyed, where will
they live and use their wealth? :)

>escape (life in the mirror vs death in a very bad
>situation outside) someone triggers a trap which forces them to
do this
>(geas/quest), or some sort of a prophecy  - either dooming
those who refused
>to help or giving some sort of benefit to the one who does (if
its pretty
>clear what the benefit is they'll probably be fighting to be
the one to do
>it).
>
>Assuming that they still don't free him you still need a way to
work
>Benekander back in. Benekander would probably recognize their
abilities at
>being able to recover the shield from the Keep and possibly
consider them for
>future work (he doesn't exactly know many adventurers
initially).

It could also be interesting to have a rival group of
adventurers do heroic efforts for which they're greatly rewarded
and renowned, and then reveal that this is because they found
and freed Rheddrian, who is now their helpful patron, then have
them join Rheddrian (remember that he's looking for many allies)
after he puts them through a suitably difficult mission so that
they can regain his trust (he'd be pretty mad at them for
leaving him behind, I think, but saving Mystara comes first).

>Money often
>will solve many problems of trust for players. Another
possibility might be
>they require some sort of a service (high level dispel or
whatever) and
>Benekander provides it for them in return for work (this one is
pretty easy -
>leave a magic item for them somewhere which has side effects
they need help
>with). One other possibility might be that Benekander bails
them out of a bad
>situation in return for work (possibly enforced with a geas).
>

Yes, I agree. When the PCs are in trouble, Benekander can help
them. IMC I had monsters summoned by Alphatians spill into other
nations, particularly Darokin where the PCs lurk frequently. One
such encounter was with a couple of Basilisks, which promptly
turned the PC minotaur fighter to stone of course! Benekander
volunteered to turn him back again, and even teleported to the
party so that they wouldn't lose too much time in their
adventures... If you illustrate a problem like that
(transporting a huge minotaur 'statue' to the nearest wizard of
level 12+ is no small problem), then players tend to remember
who their friends are.

>Hope these ideas help.
>

As do I :)


   - The Stalker



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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:35:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         John Calvin <chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E Lycanthropy (was 3E MM and Mystara)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>
Heck, it doesn't even have to be the WWM. It could have been released from
 ACDC centers during the WWM, or during the events of the Great War (perhaps
 as part of an experimental new virus that was being tested in the East
 Portage ACDC center, but was accidentally released during attacks on EP
 during the war? Or even more recently, in the post-wrath attacks on EP- AC
 1010/1011?)
<<

Hehe, or perhaps it was released by the Thothians as a biological weapon.  They seem to
like doing that sort of thing...

John


=====
Rule #46.
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one
man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.

from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:36:01 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010181241550.6037-100000@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no>
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At 12:47 10/18/00 +0200, H=E5vard wrote:

>IMO we should make an effort to claim these beasties for out
>setting. Okay, so Aranea, Chokers, Nightshades and Ropers (anyone
>else?) now also exist in other D&D settings, but we can make them better
>integrated with the Mystara setting.
>
>The Aranea are already pretty well integrated with the Savage Coast and
>Isle of Dawn material, but whatabout these others?
>
>Chokers are found in Rockhome, but thats about all we know about them.
>
>Whatabout the Ropers?

        Ropers have been AD&D default world monsters since 1979 and the first
Monster Manual.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:38:10 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Memorizing spells (was the Thousand Wizards)
In-Reply-To:  <OMLNPDNOGBIGKAAA@angelfire.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 11:55 10/18/00 +0100, The Stalker wrote:

>> Is there any D&D book where something is said
>>about the nature of "memorizing spells"???

>Apart from the obvious rulebooks, I can't think of any. IMHO this was
never described because TSR/WOTC never considered the possibility, but we
could always ask the 'sage' (Skip Williams) if we really *DO* need to know,
I suppose...

        A sidebar in the 3E PHB at the beginning of the magic section defines it
pretty specifically. It's not "memorization," it's "preparation": The
entire spell except for the last few words is cast, and when the last words
(the actual "casting" according to laymen) are pronounced, the spell is
finished and cast.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:42:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         John Calvin <chimpman.geo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand
              Wizards)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>>
Question: "has the Shadow Elves' Radiance through the Chamber of the
 Spheres any effect on magic on Mystara?"

 Answer: it has no effect, because the CoS was built with this purpose by
 Rafiel. Also, the SE Radiance never had an effect of that kind, even
 when they did not use the CoS, IIRC. Look it up in the SE Gaz.
<<

I'm not so sure about this one.  One could argue that all the rules might change once the
CoS is completed and being used.  IIRC Rafiel's purpose was to make a copy of the NoS.
Since not even the immortals fully understand the NoS I think that would be near
impossible for Rafiel to predict all of the effects that his CoS might have on Mystara.

One could also argue that the NoS drains/drained entropy/energy because of the curse
placed upon it by other immortals (or the Old Ones or whoever), and that since the CoS
has not been cursed in such a way, that it will not drain energy or entropy.

One could also argue that the "curse" affects the radiance as a whole, and so both the
Nos and Cos (and anything else build to utilize/produce the radiance) will cause a drain
on some aspect of Mystara.

There are several possibilities here and I think that the canon sources are vague enough
to allow us to choose the one that fits our own campaigns.  I've thought about this for a
while, but still have not been able to make up my mind on the subject.  I guess I'm
leaning towards having both the NoS and CoS drain some aspect of Mystara because I hate
to give the Shadow Elves all of that power for free...

John


=====
Rule #46.
If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one
man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor.

from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:41:01 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010181354140.5101-100000@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.n o>
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At 13:59 10/18/00 +0200, H=E5vard wrote:

>AFAIK Ropers appeared in both editions of the D&D creature catalogue. It
>was not part of the Monsterous Compendiums (maybe the Mystaran one?), but
>was later introduced to AD&D in the Monsterous Manual (for 2nd Ed)
>
>Even if the appeared in 1st Ed (Are you sure about this?), I think we have
>a strong case for making the Ropers strongly connnected with Mystara.

        It appeared first in the 1E Monster Manual, years before there was a
Mystara or a Creature Catalogue.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:53:33 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <005101c03902$6e5a3fa0$cadb61d4@skytte>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jacob Skytte wrote:

> I wrote:
> >>AFAIK Ropers originally appeared for OD&D in XL1: Quest for the Heartstone (1984), and was then included in AC9: Creature Catalogue, in 1986. I don't know about 1st ed., though...<<
>
> Oh, and since the Roper was an official Advanced Dungeons and Dragons
> Action Toy (the Raging Roper Bendable Monster), it's likely that AD&D
> can lay claim to it's origin.

Sure they can. But will they?
Thats my original point. All TSR settings can use the monsters from the
Monster Manual (3E), but we can make the monsters belong to Mystara by
using them in our material, thus integrating them into our setting.

Anyway, Ropers are kinda silly.... ;)

H�vard


Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:21:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Francis Lariviere <francislariviere@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Spell memorization  (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello all, I'm new to the list.  And since english is
not my native language, please excuse my horrible
spelling.

>IMO, magic-user's memorization and study is not
>a magical process, but a mundane one; it is
>the casting which is magical. Is there any D&D
>book where something is said about the nature
>of "memorizing spells"???

I know it's not necessarily a good source for
everybody, but the 3E player's handbook state that
magic-users cast part of the spell when they memorize
it so that they only have to complete the casting when
they actually want to use the spell.  In this case, I
would rule that a magic user can't memorize a spell
during the Day of Dread since you need magic to cast
(even partialy cast) a spell.

>otherwise there would be not one Day
>of Dread per year but two! first Kaldmont 28th, when
>no magic works, then
>Nuwmont 1st, cuz spellcasters won't have had time to
>study and rest for any
>meaningful spell!!

If a spellcaster don't use a spell (obviously he can't
use a spell on the day of dread), he don't have to
memorize it again the next day, so he would already
have all is spell memorized.  But even if that was not
the case, I don't see why spellcasters could'nt
memorize there spells on the morning of Nuwmont 1st.

One thing I'm wondering though, if you play with the
3E rules that say that the memorization of a spell is
done by partially casting it, would it means that
during the day of dread all memorized spells would be
whiped out of memorie?  I would say so, but I'd like
to know what you think.

Francis

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:39:39 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread

>> Since RAD practically "no longer exists" then magic on Mystara, apart from the "Day of Dread" no longer risks extinction, correct? <<

I think there's a confusion here between the Immortal Rad and the Nucleus of the Spheres. Rad gained Immortality by using the Nucleus, and one could say that since he was a member of the Brotherhood of the Radience he was partially responsible for the draining of magic on Mystara, though use of the Nucleus.

Partially, only, because there are other members of the Brotherhood of the Radiance, and any use of the Nucleus the way they do has a chance of causing magic drain. Now, since they called the accumulation of those points "Rad Force", that's possibly another source of confusion; but here they share the same name but involve two different things - the Immortal Rad isn't what causes the accumulation of "Rad Force."

However, Lenardo's main point *might* be right: not that since Rad isn't around (he might come back after the Mark of Amber adventure, anyhow) Mystara isn't in danger of further magic drain, BUT after WotI the Radience may no longer drain magic BECAUSE: the Nucleus gets modified so it drains from Entropy* rather than Energy.

People have a variety of opinions about what that means, but one of them is that since the Nucleus is no longer draining from the Sphere of Energy, magic drain is no longer occuring, so Mystara isn't in danger any more of losing magic on account of the Nucleus.

*Draining from Entropy: I'd argue that there's an effectively infinite pool of Entropy to draw upon since everything is constantly "generating" entropy effects, so the "drain" of energy from Entropy never "really" reduces the amount of entropy, the way draining Energy affected magic levels. But here again different people will have different theories, at least one of which is posted somewhere on Stan's site.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:59:55 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
MIME-Version: 1.0
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H=E5vard <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO> wrote:

> Thats my original point. All TSR settings can use the monsters from =
the
> Monster Manual (3E), but we can make the monsters belong to Mystara by
> using them in our material, thus integrating them into our setting.

And we would want lay claim to Ropers because...?

> Anyway, Ropers are kinda silly.... ;)

What; you don't think a Raging Roper Bendable Monster is cool?!?  :)  No =
sillier than a Beholder, surely...
More sense in grabbing Araneas, which are already established as =
inherent to Mystara. Perhaps they could use a little more exposure, =
though. The fact remains there are no monsters that are perfectly =
inhernt to Mystara. Sure we've got a lot of monsters that other settings =
don't have, but there aren't monsters such as Draconians that you =
instantly tie to the setting (Dragonlance in this instance); and I'm not =
sure that I want any, but that's just me...

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:12:26 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread
In-Reply-To:  <Springmail.105.971883579.0.68400200@www.springmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Evil Genius wrote:

> >> Since RAD practically "no longer exists" then magic on Mystara


Canonically, are we assuming that Rad came back after MoA? I mean, for
continuity's sake with the MA's is Rad still Immortal?


Ethan

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:25:27 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: 3e Mystara and Lycanthropy
In-Reply-To:  <F14Kd6QR7j1HaKtKufV00000cc9@hotmail.com>
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At 03:51 PM 10/18/00 CEST, you wrote:
>Andrew Theisen wrote:
>
>[snipe...] and there are at least two candidates for Immortality mentioned
>in PC4 who would be likely to modify lycanthropy in such a manner.
>
>************
>
>Who are they?
>Could you outline these two guys for those of us who do not have access to
>PC4 Night Howlers?

Nuts... now I have to go and dig it out...

[shuffling through a badly organized and messy closet for a few hours...]

Lessee:

There's Kaladan "the Mastershaper" (M36/Weretiger21)

This guys pretty old. He was one of the researchers who continued tampering
with the original virus after its initial release (in 401 AC). He
overexposed himself to the virus, and now shifts back and forth between any
number of forms at any given time. He's currently seeking Immortality
(currently as of 1000 AC) under the sponsorship of Thanatos. The DM Notes
say this about him: "[He] hopes to reintroduce the original, highly
contagious and unstable, version of lycanthropy into the world... Nothing
delights him more than the appearance of a new weretype."

BTW, his symbol as an Immortal will/would be a Tiger-Man holding a jagged
moon in his right claw.

Then there's Leo Variantia "the Shapechanger"
(F34/T18/M14/C13/Weretiger36/Werefox13/Werebat9/Werebear10)

A Thyatian Fighter/Weretiger who began on the Path of the Polymath around
500 AC. As of 1000 AC, he was on his final quest to attain Immortality.
Given the powers and abilities he had, I'd say it's a safe bet he
succeeded. DM Notes say that "Upon attaining Immortality, Leo undoubtedly
keeps busy thwarting the machinations of Ruadhri" [Ruaidrhi Hawkbane "the
Silver Hunter"- and possibly St. Malinois of the Lupins- an Immortal elf
who singlehandedly slew all of Mystara's Werehawk population. Nice to see
that Genocide gets one into the Pearly Gates, as it were, and in the Sphere
of Thought. Really enlightened means of pursuing Immortality, I'd say.]

His symbol would/will be a full moon with a cloud scudding across its face.

Either of these guys would be suitable candidates for altering lycanthropy-
Kaladan simply out of perversity and desire to spread further chaos and
disorder, and Variantia might do it in his efforts to thwart Ruaidrhi's
attempts to destroy all lycanthropes- if elves are no longer subject to
instant death by the disease, maybe Ruadhri will be a little less
antagonistic? Or at least his followers might diminish somewhat?

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:33:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <002101c0391c$8a5ea5a0$83db61d4@skytte>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jacob Skytte wrote:

> H�vard <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO> wrote:
>
> > Thats my original point. All TSR settings can use the monsters from the
> > Monster Manual (3E), but we can make the monsters belong to Mystara by
> > using them in our material, thus integrating them into our setting.
>
> And we would want lay claim to Ropers because...?

Because the monster has been presented in Mystara specific products (In my
book the Creature Catalogues are Mystara Specific).
And because it hasnt always been an AD&d monster, even if it has been
mentioned in the 1st ed.

> > Anyway, Ropers are kinda silly.... ;)
>
> What; you don't think a Raging Roper Bendable Monster is cool?!?  :)
> No sillier than a Beholder, surely... More sense in grabbing Araneas,
> which are already established as inherent to Mystara. Perhaps they
> could use a little more exposure, though. The fact remains there are
> no monsters that are perfectly inhernt to Mystara. Sure we've got a
> lot of monsters that other settings don't have, but there aren't
> monsters such as Draconians that you instantly tie to the setting
> (Dragonlance in this instance); and I'm not sure that I want any, but
> that's just me...

The beholders are on my hate-list. I never use them in my campaign. But I
accept certain theories that link them to the Nightmater dimension and
possibly Arik.

I agree that there arent any monsters that are inherently Mystaran, at
least not like the Draconians of Dragonlance

I think the human cultures are more defining of mystara than any monster
could be.

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:58:39 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <Pine.LNX.4.21.0010181814370.7436-100000@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.n o>
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At 18:33 10/18/2000 +0200, H=E5vard wrote:

>Because the monster has been presented in Mystara specific products (In my
>book the Creature Catalogues are Mystara Specific).
>And because it hasnt always been an AD&d monster, even if it has been
>mentioned in the 1st ed.

        Are you not getting/reading all the messages? The Roper was in the Monster
Manual before B2 was published, before there was a Red Box with Bargle
mentioned in it, and YEARS before a Creature Catalog. The Roper as an AD&D
monster predates Mystara, and OD&D in general.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:22:05 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
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>If this ruins memorizations of spells, then the next day, a spellcaster
would need to rememorize all the spells he wants. If you go by 2e rules,
that can take quite a lot of timeRight!!! You expressed it far better: even
when I use OD&D, I enforce the rule of spells taking time to prepare,
increasing with the spell's difficulty, and the total time of study can be
very very time-consuming for powerful mages. that's somewhat of a house rule
for game balance, otherwise PCs would have a daily battery of destructive
magic and would not care much about planning and strategy! So, if all
memorized spells went down by DoD, most of the morning of Nuwmont 1 should
be expent in studying (12 hours is like a reasonable limit for preparing a
full array of Companion-level spells), that or choosing just to have 1st and
2nd lvl spells in stock!

Andres

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:43:04 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
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H=E5vard <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO> wrote:


> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jacob Skytte wrote:
> > And we would want lay claim to Ropers because...?
>=20
> Because the monster has been presented in Mystara specific products =
(In my
> book the Creature Catalogues are Mystara Specific).

But hardly anywhere it would be taken particularly seriously. There must =
be much more interesting monsters to grab for Mystara...

> > > Anyway, Ropers are kinda silly.... ;)
> >
> > What; you don't think a Raging Roper Bendable Monster is cool?!?  :)
> > No sillier than a Beholder, surely... More sense in grabbing =
Araneas,
> > which are already established as inherent to Mystara. Perhaps they
> > could use a little more exposure, though. The fact remains there are
> > no monsters that are perfectly inhernt to Mystara. Sure we've got a
> > lot of monsters that other settings don't have, but there aren't
> > monsters such as Draconians that you instantly tie to the setting
> > (Dragonlance in this instance); and I'm not sure that I want any, =
but
> > that's just me...
>=20
> The beholders are on my hate-list. I never use them in my campaign. =
But I
> accept certain theories that link them to the Nightmater dimension and
> possibly Arik.

You think Beholders are silly or just over-powered (if you're wondering =
I think they're just as silly as Ropers)?

> I agree that there arent any monsters that are inherently Mystaran, at
> least not like the Draconians of Dragonlance
>=20
> I think the human cultures are more defining of mystara than any =
monster
> could be.

I totally agree with you, and that is also why I say that I'm not sure I =
want any monsters that are definitely Mystaran...

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:51:09 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
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H�vard wrote:
>
> AFAIK Ropers appeared in both editions of the D&D creature catalogue. It
> was not part of the Monsterous Compendiums (maybe the Mystaran one?), but
> was later introduced to AD&D in the Monsterous Manual (for 2nd Ed)
> Even if the appeared in 1st Ed (Are you sure about this?), I think we have
> a strong case for making the Ropers strongly connnected with Mystara.

I don't have a copy of the first edition monster manuals for reference
at the moment, but I'm almost positive ropers and stone ropers were
present in those earlier books.

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:34:19 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand
              Wizards)
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> Ho una domanda anch'io (scrivo in italiano almeno riesco a farmi capire da
qualcuno): dato che RAD in pratica "non esiste pi�" la magia su mystara, a
parte il "Day of Dread" non correrebbe pi� rischi, giusto?
> Ma la radianza che usano gli Shadow elves con la Chamber of Spheres non ha
effetti sulla magia di mystara?
>
>
> AltaVista Free email service
>


While I think I can understand what you wrote there, can you please write in
English? After all it is the "common" language of the "real world". And if I
am not mistaken it is also the official and only language of this mailing
list.
Of course, some may argue that Thyatian is the common language of Mystara
and so Italian IS the proper language for this list, but to make it easyer
for the rest of us English is the only option.

Morphail

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:16:15 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <39EDF11D.6900AE50@teleport.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 11:51 10/18/2000 -0700, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

>I don't have a copy of the first edition monster manuals for reference
>at the moment, but I'm almost positive ropers and stone ropers were
>present in those earlier books.

        Ropers were in the 1E MM, and the Stone Ropers showed up in A3 and then, I
believe, MM2.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:04:54 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Wizards Shopper <dereka@UNISERVE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Spell memorization  (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
In-Reply-To:  <20001018152116.10963.qmail@web3905.mail.yahoo.com>
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Quoting Francis Lariviere <francislariviere@YAHOO.COM>:

> Hello all, I'm new to the list.

Welcome!

[snip]
> I know it's not necessarily a good source for
> everybody, but the 3E player's handbook state that
> magic-users cast part of the spell when they memorize
> it so that they only have to complete the casting when
> they actually want to use the spell.  In this case, I
> would rule that a magic user can't memorize a spell
> during the Day of Dread since you need magic to cast
> (even partialy cast) a spell.
>
[snip]
>
> One thing I'm wondering though, if you play with the
> 3E rules that say that the memorization of a spell is
> done by partially casting it, would it means that
> during the day of dread all memorized spells would be
> whiped out of memorie?  I would say so, but I'd like
> to know what you think.

If you're using this rule, then, yeah, spells would be wiped (IMO).

However, I'd always thought of MU's as casting the entire spell, not just the
last few words of it.  I hadn't really contemplated the consequences.

Perhaps OD&D memorization was just a patterning or set of tricks used to work
out how to pronounce the words of power, because the words themselves resist
memorization.  Perhaps /forgetting/ is actually a backlash amnesia effect of
getting /near/ the power that way.

Any other explanations for having it work that way, instead of how 3E suggests?

- Auld Skald

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:04:39 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand
              Wizards)
In-Reply-To:  <003301c03937$773943c0$0101c80a@1>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Shaham Ilan wrote:

> Of course, some may argue that Thyatian is the common language of Mystara
> and so Italian IS the proper language for this list, but to make it easyer
> for the rest of us English is the only option.

Actually, given that Thyatis is actually Byzantine Rome, the language for
the list should be greek. :)


Ethan

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:54:40 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of theThousandWizards)
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SteelAngel ha scritto:

> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Shaham Ilan wrote:
>
> > Of course, some may argue that Thyatian is the common language of Mystara
> > and so Italian IS the proper language for this list, but to make it easyer
> > for the rest of us English is the only option.
>
> Actually, given that Thyatis is actually Byzantine Rome, the language for
> the list should be greek. :)
>
> Ethan

Actually, given that Thyatis is actually Roman Rome, the language for the list
should be Latin. :)

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Centurionis Primi Pilii XXae Cohortis
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:36:11 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      I'll modify my Nentsun project
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Seeing that a project who had to cover about a dozen of word pages has
already
covered a dozen of word pages and I am at one third of what I planned to
do, I
have decided to send still one work a week (Chapter Two will be out
on friday, although I have already written up to Chapter Four), but I
will make this plan:

1) Chronicles of Nentsun: 5 files. This is the history of Nentsun.
2) Geography
3) Fighting Schools
4) Events 1000-1016

I could well change plans during the writing, but I think I will at
least stick in
having the Chronicles represent ONLY the history.

Vale!

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:05:52 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate oftheThousandWizards)
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Caroletti wrote:
>
> > Actually, given that Thyatis is actually Byzantine Rome, the language for
> > the list should be greek. :)
>
> Actually, given that Thyatis is actually Roman Rome, the language for the list
> should be Latin. :)

Actually, considered the number of Thyatian dialects (Caurenzan =
Italian, Hattian = German), we could be speaking three or four languages
at the same time :)
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:32:04 +1300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Hello
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Seeing all the recent intros I thought I'd do it too. Being new to the =
list a few days ago.
My names Chris Furneaux and I'm from New Zealand.

Just been playing again recently (well DM'ing) after many years of not. =
I wouldn't really want to play any other setting and I'm definatly =
impressed with the work on the net. Bloody great. I love the freedom and =
depth Mystara offers.

Chris.

------=_NextPart_000_0150_01C0396C.62A67060
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Seeing all the recent intros I thought =
I'd do it=20
too. Being new to the list a few days ago.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My names Chris Furneaux and I'm from =
New=20
Zealand.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just been playing again recently (well =
DM'ing)=20
after many years of not. I wouldn't really want to play any other =
setting and=20
I'm definatly impressed with the work on the net. Bloody great. I love =
the=20
freedom and depth Mystara offers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:32:15 +1300
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Memorizing spells and the WWM
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I thought I'd sum this up.

OD&D says:
It's something about burning the patterns
of the spell to your mind. If magic dissappears these patterns do not =
change
but they now don't do anything.
Thus any magic user spell can be memorizied at any time (given rest) any =
where. Casting however is useless in certain conditions. Forbidden =
spells are prevented from functioning corectly in the hollow world for a =
reason by immortal magic. Thus protecting the hollow world.
Spell users could memorize spells if they had their spell books(which =
they won't because a high level spell caster would not carry his spell =
book into enemy spell caster teritory to get it ruined when he plans to =
just teleport home and rest after. This leaves any alphatian spell =
casters in Glantri a prediciment as they will have no spell book =
(destroyed with Alphiatia's sinking) and so will have to research them =
again (very time consuming) therefore the importance of a school of =
magic after WoTI is huge (if they escape, and I think they could =
probably wear armor during this period as it will not hinder spell =
casting.

2e AD&D
spell casters are subject to the rules above for mystara however =
memorization taking a lot of time commitment to attacking Glantri thus =
becomes much more significant and you understand why a high level mage =
is therefore reluctant to let lose all his spells at once because it =
means he has to sit there for the entire next day memorizing which makes =
him vunrible and bored.

3e
If It's not "memorization," it's "preparation": The
entire spell except for the last few words is cast, and when the last =
words
(the actual "casting" according to laymen) are pronounced, the spell is
finished and cast.
Spells, I assume, therefore kind of "float" around with the person. =
Spells are thus lost during the WWM and day of dread as this magic is =
sucked away. Perhaps this is why it the doomsday weapon is so =
distructive to alphatia.
You would also have to have magic working to "prepare" for casting.
Forbidden spells in the hollow world do not "matterialize" but I'm sure =
there is nothing to stop "preperation" but that "preperation" will ruin =
that casting of the spell.
This tactic is EVIL to Alphiatian spellcasters in Glantri as they LOSE =
thier teleport and everything. However it also indicates to me that =
re-preparing would not require rest, just a spell book and that spells =
could thus be cast straight from a spellbook. (wizards might then carry =
a battle spellbook?) This is an Idea that works well for low level =
spell-casters but makes high level casters much too dangerous.
I also wonder how that effects multaple castings of the same spell.
I thus do not like the sounds of the 3e rules for a mystara feel.
Magic users therefore have another incentive to esscape Mystara during =
DoD's.


>Perhaps it's different for clerics, who receive spells from their =
Immortals,
>and for creatures with innate magical abilities, but, IMO, magic-user's
>memorization and study is not a magical process, but a mundane one; it =
is
>the casting which is magical.

In WoTI there is an artifact power that grants spells to an immortal's =
clerics if an immortial is not about. If the immortial is about then =
spells are granted by them. Correct me if I am wrong but durring WWM =
artifacts do not work - this says to me clerics do not get thier spells =
on that day. However during DoD's my assumption was artifacts kept on =
working and therefore clerics can have thier spells but wizards do not.

Chris.




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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought I'd sum this up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OD&amp;D says:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It's something about burning the =
patterns<BR>of the=20
spell to your mind. If magic dissappears these patterns do not =
change<BR>but=20
they now don't do anything.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thus any magic user spell can be =
memorizied at any=20
time (given rest) any where. Casting however is useless in certain =
conditions.=20
Forbidden spells are&nbsp;prevented from functioning corectly in the =
hollow=20
world for a reason by immortal magic. Thus protecting the hollow=20
world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Spell users could memorize spells if =
they had their=20
spell books(which they won't because a high level spell caster would not =
carry=20
his spell book into enemy spell caster teritory to get it ruined when he =
plans=20
to just teleport home and rest after. This leaves any alphatian spell =
casters in=20
Glantri&nbsp;a prediciment as they will have no spell book (destroyed =
with=20
Alphiatia's sinking) and so will have to research them again (very time=20
consuming) therefore the importance of a school of magic after WoTI is =
huge (if=20
they escape, and I think they could probably wear armor during this =
period as it=20
will not hinder spell casting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2e AD&amp;D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>spell casters are subject to the rules =
above for=20
mystara however memorization taking a lot of time commitment to =
attacking=20
Glantri thus becomes much more significant and you understand why a high =
level=20
mage is therefore reluctant to let lose all his spells at once because =
it means=20
he has to sit there for the entire next day memorizing which makes him =
vunrible=20
and bored.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3e</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If It's not "memorization," it's =
"preparation":=20
The<BR>entire spell except for the last few words is cast, and when the =
last=20
words<BR>(the actual "casting" according to laymen) are pronounced, the =
spell=20
is<BR>finished and cast.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Spells, I assume, therefore kind of =
"float" around=20
with the person. Spells are thus lost during the WWM and day of dread as =
this=20
magic is sucked away. Perhaps this is why it the doomsday weapon is so=20
distructive to alphatia.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You would also have to have magic =
working to=20
"prepare" for casting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Forbidden spells in the hollow world do =
not=20
"matterialize" but I'm sure there is nothing to stop "preperation" but =
that=20
"preperation" will ruin that casting of the spell.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This tactic is EVIL to Alphiatian =
spellcasters in=20
Glantri as they LOSE thier teleport and everything. However it also =
indicates to=20
me that re-preparing would not require rest, just a spell book and that =
spells=20
could thus be cast straight from a spellbook. (wizards might then carry =
a battle=20
spellbook?) This is an Idea that works well for low level spell-casters =
but=20
makes high level casters much too dangerous.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I also wonder how that effects multaple =
castings of=20
the same spell.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thus do not like the sounds of the 3e =
rules for a=20
mystara feel.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Magic users therefore have another =
incentive to=20
esscape Mystara during DoD's.<BR><BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><BR>&gt;Perhaps it's different for clerics, who receive spells =
from their=20
Immortals,<BR>&gt;and for creatures with innate magical abilities, but, =
IMO,=20
magic-user's<BR>&gt;memorization and study is not a magical process, but =
a=20
mundane one; it is<BR>&gt;the casting which is magical.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In WoTI there is an artifact power that =
grants=20
spells to an immortal's clerics if an immortial is not about. If the =
immortial=20
is about then spells are granted by them. Correct me if I am wrong but =
durring=20
WWM artifacts do not work - this says to me clerics do not get thier =
spells on=20
that day. However during DoD's my assumption was artifacts kept on =
working and=20
therefore clerics can have thier spells but wizards do not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Chris.<BR><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:16:18 -0500
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Web Warlock <web_warlock@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      MISC: Opinions wanted, Witches.
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Hi,

Some of you know me.  I am Warlock and I did the "Complete Netbook of
Witches and Warlocks".
I really like witches.  Maybe I am obsessed with them. But I really like
playing them.  So to that end I am putting out a new supplement to my
netbook.  Among other things it features witches that are unique to various
game worlds, both official and on-line ones.

I am posting a version of the Glantri witch, the Wokani, here to get any
ideas from "the experts".
Please let me know what you think and especially if you have any
suggestions!  Keep in mind that this witch has been "re-cast" to fit my
Witches netbook.

Oh, by the way.  These are 2nd Edition classes.  I am still working on 3E
and if I convert my netbook over completely to d20 rules I can't use these
anyway.

This witch was created after I had worked on my "Holy Lands of Glantri"
variant and then purchased the Glantri Gazeteer.

Thanks,
Warlock.
--
Wokani, the Witches of Glantri
 The witches of Glantri on the world of Mystara are known as Wokani.  The
Wokani are a tradition as well as a group of covens found only in the
Principalities of Glantri.  These witches have survived not only because of
their power and secrecy, but in spite of it.  Mystara is a world with no
gods.  In Glantri in particular, the open worship of gods had been illegal,
and can be punishable by a hefty fine or even death.  That these witch can
work in such an environment and among Glantri's great wizard-princes is even
more testament to their power.
The Wokani is one of the oldest collections of magic-practicing humans known
to history and before.  Long before the Princes began to rule, the Wokani
were tapping the magic of The Radiance. With the rise of the princes these
witches have either had to go into hiding or hide in "plain sight". Often
these witches will pass themselves as Sorceresses; that is, as actual
wizards.  The common folk still refer to them as "Witches".  Since most
their magic is more similar to wizard magic than other priests, the ruling
wizards of Glantri leave them to their own devices, although they do not
really trust them at all.
 In many ways the Wokani tradition resembles that of the Crone and Venefacia
's.  While the overwhelming majority of this tradtion is female, there are a
few males among their number.
Preferred and Barred Covens: Wokani, are very secretive, even more than most
witch traditions.  Wokani traditionalists may only belong to Wokani covens.
This makes the distinction between Tradition and Coven very difficult for
this group.  There are other witches in Mystara and even in Glantri, but
they are not Wokani.
Role: The Wokani exist to protect the "old ways" of religion before the
Princes came.  Currently they are disguising themselves as true wizards.
This makes the Wokani very dangerous.  Any of the cowan (any non-witch) that
discoveres a Wokani's secret is most certainly marked for death.  While they
prefer not to kill anyone normally, the Wokani will to protect their secret.
Weapon Proficiencies: None Required.  Most Wokani only chose a weapon that a
wizard might, such as a dagger or staff.
Non-Weapon Proficiencies: The Wokani gain the wizard Proficiency of
Spellcraft for free at first level.
Equipment: The Wokani needs a small lab to brew her potions. Initial cost is
2d4 x 10 GP at first level and 1d4 x 5 GP per level to maintain after that.
Optionally, the Wokani can use the optional rules for creating and
maintaining a lab from the Player's Option Spells & Magic book.  This cost
is above and beyond that what the witch might require for her Manufacture
Potions occult powers.
Special Benefits: As stated before, Wokani practice "hiding in the open".
Since most convince others that they are just another sort of wizard they
are less feared than other witches.  While they are looked down upon by true
wizards, this does not translate to the rest of the population.  While she
remains within the borders of Glantri a Wokani will never insight a mob,
regardless how superstitious the population is.  She may be feared, but the
people fear the wizards more.  Also the wokani gains +1 to reaction rolls
while she is within Glantri and she is still believed to be a sort of
wizard.  If she is discovered to be a true witch then these reaction rolls
drop to a -3.  Either of this is added to what reaction roll the witch would
normally receive.
Special Hindrances: The Wokani suffer the same sort of degeneration that
plagues crones.  For every Occult power she receives the Wokani permanently
looses 1 point of Charisma, to a minimum score of 3. They develop hunched
backs, warts, bone deformities and horrible voices. This has led them to
become the best users of deceit, charms and shapechange, to avoid being
shunned or persecuted by others.
Wokani can not turn or command undead.
Wokani are also looked down upon by true wizards. Their reactions to witches
are measured as if the witch were two levels lower.
Wealth: Wokani begin with a random 3d6x10 (different than other witches in
that it is not based on her charisma).  Some amount of this money goes
towards creating a lab.
Races: Humans make up the majority of this tradition, with some half-elves.
While other wizards may be demi-, semi- or even non-human, only humans (and
half-elves) are ever admitted to Wokani covens.
Occult Powers
Lesser: Manufacture Potions #1
Minor: Elemental Powers or Manufacture Potions #2
Medial: Create Control Doll
Greater: Shape Change
Superior:  Witches' Curse

Holy Days: On the Glantrian calendar wokani worship on the following
sabbats.
Numont 2     Spring Equinox
Flaurmont 1 Summer Solstice
Felmont 1     Fall Equinox
Sviftmont     Winter Solstice
Eirmont 5     Necromantia (Glantri Halloween)



--
Web Warlock  webwarlock@iname.com
The Other Side, http://rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
Home of the Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

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=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:15:54 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Hello

Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM> wrote:
>> Seeing all the recent intros I thought I'd do it
too. Being new to the list a few days ago.
My names Chris Furneaux and I'm from New
Zealand. <<

Greetings and welcome to the list. 8-)

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:07:28 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Opinions wanted, Witches.
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Keyword dropped -- this list does not use them, especially when they are
as uninformative as "MISC".

In a message dated 2000-10-18 10:30:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
web_warlock@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> Wokani, the Witches of Glantri
>   The witches of Glantri on the world of Mystara are known as Wokani.  The
>  Wokani are a tradition as well as a group of covens found only in the
>  Principalities of Glantri.  These witches have survived not only because of
>  their power and secrecy, but in spite of it.  Mystara is a world with no
>  gods.

That depends on whether Immortals are the same as gods.  Certainly
the material that follows assumes that they are....

> In Glantri in particular, the open worship of gods had been illegal,
>  and can be punishable by a hefty fine or even death.  That these witch can
>  work in such an environment and among Glantri's great wizard-princes is
even
>  more testament to their power.

The idea of Witches/Wokans serving gods and thus being practicioners of
divine magic is one that does not work particularly well in Glantri.  Their
usual spellcasting abilities (as opposed to secret techniques that they
might learn as part of their Secret Craft) are too much in the open -- for
example, they do serve on the faculty of the Great School of Magic.  Also,
keep in mind that the High Mistress of this Craft is herself one of those
wizard-princes!  Not only that, but she is actually more trusted by the
other wizard-princes than her non-Witch rival Elven princess.

>  The Wokani is one of the oldest collections of magic-practicing humans
known
>  to history and before.  Long before the Princes began to rule, the Wokani
>  were tapping the magic of The Radiance. With the rise of the princes these
>  witches have either had to go into hiding or hide in "plain sight". Often
>  these witches will pass themselves as Sorceresses; that is, as actual
>  wizards.

The reference to Sorceresses is very confusing since 3E has a Sorcerer
class -- and it is quite clear from the rest of your description that your
material is meant for 2E.

>  Wokani are also looked down upon by true wizards. Their reactions to
witches
>  are measured as if the witch were two levels lower.

What does this one mean?  Would a Wokan of level 1-2 be regarded as
a mundaner?  And just how is reaction measured by level anyway?

>  Wealth: Wokani begin with a random 3d6x10 (different than other witches in
>  that it is not based on her charisma).  Some amount of this money goes
>  towards creating a lab.
>  Races: Humans make up the majority of this tradition, with some half-elves.
>  While other wizards may be demi-, semi- or even non-human, only humans (and
>  half-elves) are ever admitted to Wokani covens.

Whoa!  In Glantri this Secret Craft is dominated by Belcadiz Elves.

>From what I remember reading of your Witches, Glantrians practicioners
of the Secret Craft of Witchcraft/Wokanism should at best be regarded
as true Wizards who dabble in the secret powers of that class.  The
Wise Women of the Northern Reaches as described in Gaz 7 would be
much better candidates for your Witch class.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:25:43 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
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In a message dated 2000-10-18 7:34:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes:

> Magic fails on the Day of Dread - period!
>
>  If this ruins memorizations of spells, then the next day, a spellcaster
> would need to rememorize all the spells he wants.

I would say that a spellcaster loses only those spells that he attempts
to cast on the Day of Dread.  If he has his full complement of spells
memorized/prepared prior to the Day of Dread and does not attempt
to cast any spells on the Day of Dread itself, then he still has all his
spells the day after.  I would imagine that most spellcasters would be
a spell or two short the first time the Day of Dread occurs but would
stop trying to cast spells once they realize that their spells are
failing.  On subsequent recurrences, most spellcasters would know
not to cast any spells that day and thus would be in the same
condition on Nuwmont 1 that they would have been on the Day of
Dread itself if magic worked that day.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:09:48 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      Ogg.: Re: [MYSTARA] hello to everybody
Content-Type: text/plain
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Il Wed, 18 October 2000, Caroletti ha scritto:

>
> Are you one of those I contacted at ModCon?

No


AltaVista Free email service

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:28:29 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      sorry
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Sorry for my italian, I promise that it will not succeed anymore. (Also sorry for my english)


AltaVista Free email service

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:36:33 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Thyatis/Rome
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Well... let's be honest: Thyatis as created by TSR is a mix of classical
western Roman empire (Latin) and late eastern Byzantine empire (Greek). One
couldn't say, honestly, just one or the other.

Federico

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:07:46 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      NoS draining Entropy
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Hi, I have got three questions/thoughts for the List about NoS draining
Entropy at the end of WotI. Will you let me know your opinion?

1. Isn't the whole thing a little "anty-Mystaran" in spirit? I mean, we're
saying that one of the things which make Mystara unique is that it isn't all
of a "Good winning over Evil in an epic battle" plot. Now, this Old One's
intervention after WotI (NoS draining Entropy instead of Energy) seems to
have "punished" the Brotherhood of the Shadow by proclaiming that Evil has
lost the war and will now suffer heavy consequences for that. In a word, the
other spheres (Energy in particular) have prevailed over Entropy. Which is a
little dull (i.e. unmotivated), for being Mystaran and not Forgotten Realms.
Especially if you consider that the Old One says to Rad and Ixion:
"Immortals, you have failed to understand the nature of your privileges and
duties" (I'm quoting by heart). This can apply to the other Four Spheres,
which didn't bother to take care of the living mortals subject to them; but
it won't apply to Entropy, whose natural aim is not at all the preservation
of life. In other words: where did Entropy fail its mission? Why should it
be "punished" like that?

2. If, after all, we accept canon (i.e. NoS now draining Entropy instead of
Energy), this could result in a very interesting change in the effects of
Radiance: those who use it for attaining immortality would reach it in the
Sphere of Entropy!
That's really cool, especially for Brannart McGregor!
And what if Etienne comes back to Mystara after "Mark of Amber", but
deprived of his immortality, and tries once more to reach it via the
Radiance? He will find himself an Entropic Immortal. Really cool!

3. What about Rafiel's Chamber of Spheres? Does it work in another way? How
could Rafiel possibly have created/modified such artifact in a way that it
didn't spoil Energy (Magic in Mystara) without telling Rad how to do it for
the NoS too, before WotI started?
So, maybe the Chamber of Spheres drains Energy as well, and the immortals
just didn't notice yet, or maybe it doesn't drain Energy because there isn't
an active Brotherhood of the Chamber of Spheres yet!
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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:25:19 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Weeks Without Magic and HW Spell of Preservation
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He he he...

what does it happen to the Hollow World during the two Weeks Without Magic?
I'd guess the Spell of Preservation is not working too...

Lots of interesting and destructive things might happen there, despite Ka's
efforts.

Mwhuwhawhawhawhawhawhawhawha!!!

Federico
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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:24:34 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Seyed Razavi <seyed@SMARTMONKEY.CO.UK>
Subject:      Mystaran calendar
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Hi,

Has anyone compiled a calendar of Mystara which includes regional names for
months, days etc?

Also does anyone have a way of working out how many hours of daylight there
are in a given day of the year?

Cheers,

Sid

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:50:46 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Opinions wanted, Witches.
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> Hi,
>
> Some of you know me.  I am Warlock and I did the "Complete Netbook of
> Witches and Warlocks".
> I really like witches.  Maybe I am obsessed with them. But I really like
> playing them.  So to that end I am putting out a new supplement to my
> netbook.  Among other things it features witches that are unique to
various
> game worlds, both official and on-line ones.
>

Hmm, I like what you did here although you realise it won't work with
"canon" or the other things people dine for Glantri because it is very
different. But of course being different is a good thing.
One thing though. When you say "I am a Warlock" do you mean you play a
Warlock in role playing games or that your relegion is that of a wokan? I
came to know an Australian girl who was a witch and she took it quite
seriously.

Morphail

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:57:58 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE>
Subject:      Re: Mystaran calendar
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Seyed Razavi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Has anyone compiled a calendar of Mystara which includes regional names for
> months, days etc?
>
> Also does anyone have a way of working out how many hours of daylight there
> are in a given day of the year?

i think that goes in my direction.

the Thyatian calender has 10 months, each month has 28 days
seven days per week
Days:
Lunadain
Gromdain
Tserdain
Moldain
Nytdain
Loshdain
Soladain

Month: / Star Sign
 1. Nuwmont - Midwinter / Manticore
 2. Vatermont -Late Winter / Hydra
 3. Thaumont - Early Spring / Centaur
 4. Flaurmont - Middle Spring / Basilisk
 5. Yarthmont - Late Spring / Chimera
 6. Klarmont - Early Summer / Gorgon
 7. Felmont - Midsummer / Griffon
 8. Frymont - Late Summer / Dragon
 9. Ambyrmont - Early Fall / Salamander
10. Sviftmont - Middle Fall / Pegasus
11. Eirmont - Late Fall / Warrior
12.Kaldmont - Early Winter / Giant

these are the Names of the Thyatis calendar months and days!!
in Karakeikos they use the same.

Alphatia, Ethengar, Five Shires, Rockhome, Sind and Ylaruam
has each different names for month and days. but the same timing.

the Star Sign are

Minrothad and Shadow Elves
has also different names, but also different times.

the Minrothad use the Thyatian calender for trade purpose, but
they have also an own calendar.
the year has 11 month of 30 days, with a six day week.
to balance the year they add an additional week on the end of the
year.

the Shadow Elves calendar has 14 month and 24 days.
the days and weeks had no names.
the names of the month are take from the verse of "the Refuge of Stone"
so the 1 month of the Shadow Elves calendar starts on
e.g. Nuwmont 1st  to 24th and is named Gathering.

IBON

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:57:19 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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Jacob Skytte wrote:

> erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE> wrote:
>
> > > Indeed the almanacs list a number of Shadow Elven holidays as well as a few for the Glantrian elves, but none that seem related to Alfheim. I guess those flighty elves just threw a party when they felt like it... ;)  Yes, yes, I know they're not really like that; just call me a prejudiced Ostlander.
> >
> > alfheim becomes aengmor - it is in the forest of canolbarth.
> > is this right? - then i have some holyday of shadowelfs and other elfs.
> >
> > informations are out of the Poor Wizards Almanac3.
>
> Yes, Aengmor is the former Alfheim in the (now twisted) Canolbarth Forest. But the holidays are decidedly Shadow elven in nature, and can't be used for other elves, since they're intrinsically linked to Shadow elven history and culture, not that of surface elves.

Nuwmont 1:
new year`s day
glantri: elves celebrate good dpirit day with dances and praktical jokes.
in aengmor and the city of the stars, shadow elves fast.

Thaumont 1:
spring equinox; new year`s day (other nations); the discovery (shadow elves)
day and night has the same lenght.
in aengmor and the city of the stars, shadow elves celebrate the discovery of
the refuge of stone with feasting and singing.

Flaurmont 3:
parliament day (glantri)
the house of ministers and parliament of glantri takes the day off from work
there are elves of erewan and shadow elves.

Flaurmont 13:
first day of crystals (shadow elves)
this marks the beginning of the shadow elf month of crystals. shadow elves
living underground begin harvesting soul-crystals.

Yarthmont 15:
first day of births (shadow elves)
all bithe in thsi month are especially lucky.

Klarmont 12:
the rejection (shadow elves)
this day commemorates the time when the shadow elves petition for help
from the alfheim elves was rejected. shadow elves abtain from food
and water today and brood upon the rejection.

Felmont 14:
the Cornerstone (shadow elves), Feria de Toros (Belcadiz - Glantri)
.......
more?
IBON

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:26:04 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE> wrote:

> Flaurmont 3:
> parliament day (glantri)
> the house of ministers and parliament of glantri takes the day off =
from work
> there are elves of erewan and shadow elves.

That would be Erewan and Belcadiz elves. :)
And if you're going to list Glantri's holidays as Erewan and Belcadiz =
holidays, there are some more (in the PWA III).

> Yarthmont 15:
> first day of births (shadow elves)
> all bithe in thsi month are especially lucky.

That should be Yarthmont 9 according to PWA III.

> more?

Ambyrmont 17:
Mustering Day (Shadow Elves)
Military parades. Census of all adult Shadow Elves. 1st day in month of =
Army.

Sviftmont 13:
Birthday of Tarasfir (Shadow Elves)
Birthday of the first Shadow Elf king.

Kaldmont 28:
Year's End Feast (Shadow Elves)
In Aengmor and the City of Stars Shadow Elves celebrate with huge =
feasts.

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:34:16 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
Subject:      Re: Mystaran calendar
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Seyed Razavi <seyed@SMARTMONKEY.CO.UK> wrote:

> Also does anyone have a way of working out how many hours of daylight =
there
> are in a given day of the year?

The closest we have is a table from the Western Trail Map that goes =
something like this (will look odd, table...):

Sunrise
Apx. location   Lat.   Winter     Spring      Summer    Fall
Farend            60N   8:35AM  7:00AM   2:50AM   4:55AM
Landfall           40N   7:05AM  6:35AM   4:35AM   5:30AM
Thyatis            30N   6:40AM  6:25AM   5:00AM   5:35AM
Thanegioth      20N   6:25AM   6:20AM  5:20AM   5:45AM

Sunset
Apx. location  Lat.    Winter      Spring     Summer    Fall
Farend            60N   3:05PM   5:30PM   9:05PM   7:05PM
Landfall           40N   4:35PM   5:50PM   7:25PM   6:30PM
Thyatis            30N   5:00PM   6:00PM   6:55PM   6:25PM
Thanegioth       20N   5:20PM   6:05PM   6:35PM   6:15PM

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:05:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Opinions wanted, Witches.
In-Reply-To:  <008e01c039c3$765baf60$0101c80a@1>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 01:50 PM 10/19/00 +0200, you wrote:
>>
>> Some of you know me.  **I am Warlock** and I did the "Complete Netbook of
>> Witches and Warlocks".
>
>One thing though. When you say "I am a Warlock" do you mean you play a
>Warlock in role playing games or that your relegion is that of a wokan? I
>came to know an Australian girl who was a witch and she took it quite
>seriously.

Actually, he said "I am Warlock" (see above), not "I am a Warlock". As in
his web address "Web_Warlock".

Let's not all start worrying about him just yet. ;)

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:19:42 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: Weeks Without Magic and HW Spell of Preservation
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It's Immortal-level magic, though, not affected by the Day of Dread. BUT, it
was affected by the Week Without Magic, and indeed things changed,
especially some spells becoming possible in the HW, like charms and
resurrection (the PWA has a complete listing).

Andr�s

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:36:34 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      NoS draining Entropy
In-Reply-To:  <F1034HGXAwxXSXI3acH00006864@hotmail.com>
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At 11:07 10/19/2000 CEST, Federico Kaftal wrote:

>1. Isn't the whole thing a little "anty-Mystaran" in spirit? I mean, we're
>saying that one of the things which make Mystara unique is that it isn't all
>of a "Good winning over Evil in an epic battle" plot. Now, this Old One's
>intervention after WotI (NoS draining Entropy instead of Energy) seems to
>have "punished" the Brotherhood of the Shadow by proclaiming that Evil has
>lost the war and will now suffer heavy consequences for that. In a word, the
>other spheres (Energy in particular) have prevailed over Entropy. Which is a
>little dull (i.e. unmotivated), for being Mystaran and not Forgotten Realms.
>Especially if you consider that the Old One says to Rad and Ixion:
>"Immortals, you have failed to understand the nature of your privileges and
>duties" (I'm quoting by heart). This can apply to the other Four Spheres,
>which didn't bother to take care of the living mortals subject to them; but
>it won't apply to Entropy, whose natural aim is not at all the preservation
>of life. In other words: where did Entropy fail its mission? Why should it
>be "punished" like that?

        So, is it Mystaran for there to be a permanent stalemate? Can't one side
get the upper hand for now? They're Immortals, for one thing: Even an upset
that lasts a century is a blink of an eye to these guys.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:21:12 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Primeval Mystara: a comment and a question
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I just read the wonderful article "Primeval Mystara" by Shane Henry.
Really really
interesting...and considering that I am writing for the Nightmare
Project the history
of a non-human race who lived about 65 millions of years ago, I would
like to
contact Shane if he could give me some suggestions for it. Let me know,
Shane!
Or any other, by the way...

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:59:06 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: MISC: Opinions wanted, Witches.
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> >>
> >> Some of you know me.  **I am Warlock** and I did the "Complete Netbook
of
> >> Witches and Warlocks".
> >
> >One thing though. When you say "I am a Warlock" do you mean you play a
> >Warlock in role playing games or that your relegion is that of a wokan? I
> >came to know an Australian girl who was a witch and she took it quite
> >seriously.
>
> Actually, he said "I am Warlock" (see above), not "I am a Warlock". As in
> his web address "Web_Warlock".
>
Oops, a slight lingual problem... Sorry!

> Let's not all start worrying about him just yet. ;)
>

I wasn't worried, I was actually quite exited about having a REAL warlock on
the MML...

Morphail
(Who isn't REALLY a vampire, or a wizard, or a prince.)

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Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:44:36 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
In-Reply-To:  <F1034HGXAwxXSXI3acH00006864@hotmail.com>
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote:

> 1. Isn't the whole thing a little "anty-Mystaran" in spirit? I mean, we're
> saying that one of the things which make Mystara unique is that it isn't all
> of a "Good winning over Evil in an epic battle" plot. Now, this Old One's
> intervention after WotI (NoS draining Entropy instead of Energy) seems to
> have "punished" the Brotherhood of the Shadow by proclaiming that Evil has
> lost the war and will now suffer heavy consequences for that. In a word, the
> other spheres (Energy in particular) have prevailed over Entropy. Which is a
> little dull (i.e. unmotivated), for being Mystaran and not Forgotten Realms.
> Especially if you consider that the Old One says to Rad and Ixion:
> "Immortals, you have failed to understand the nature of your privileges and
> duties" (I'm quoting by heart). This can apply to the other Four Spheres,
> which didn't bother to take care of the living mortals subject to them; but
> it won't apply to Entropy, whose natural aim is not at all the preservation
> of life. In other words: where did Entropy fail its mission? Why should it
> be "punished" like that?


Bruce Heard once posted a theory that in the long run it would be
impossible to drain Entropy because _draining_ in itself is within that
Spheres influence. So for a short while this would be a blow against the
BoS, but in the long term it would stabilize.

> 2. If, after all, we accept canon (i.e. NoS now draining Entropy instead of
> Energy), this could result in a very interesting change in the effects of
> Radiance: those who use it for attaining immortality would reach it in the
> Sphere of Entropy!
> That's really cool, especially for Brannart McGregor!
> And what if Etienne comes back to Mystara after "Mark of Amber", but
> deprived of his immortality, and tries once more to reach it via the
> Radiance? He will find himself an Entropic Immortal. Really cool!

Immortals now become Immortals of Entropy. I believe that was part of
Bruce's theory aswell, and it does seem really logical.
Your idea about Etienne is cool, but one problem is that Immortals can
change Spheres quite easily according to the WotI rules.

> 3. What about Rafiel's Chamber of Spheres? Does it work in another way? How
> could Rafiel possibly have created/modified such artifact in a way that it
> didn't spoil Energy (Magic in Mystara) without telling Rad how to do it for
> the NoS too, before WotI started?
> So, maybe the Chamber of Spheres drains Energy as well, and the immortals
> just didn't notice yet, or maybe it doesn't drain Energy because there isn't
> an active Brotherhood of the Chamber of Spheres yet!

The CoS shouldnt drain Energy (unless you want it to!). The draining of
Energy from the NoS was a result of Noumennas tamperings with that
artifact to prevent the Sphere of Energy from becoming too powerful.

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:48:57 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
In-Reply-To:  <002901c03933$41278c00$a7c861d4@skytte>
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jacob Skytte wrote:

> H�vard <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO> wrote:
>
>
> > On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Jacob Skytte wrote:
> > > And we would want lay claim to Ropers because...?
> >
> > Because the monster has been presented in Mystara specific products (In my
> > book the Creature Catalogues are Mystara Specific).
>
> But hardly anywhere it would be taken particularly seriously. There
> must be much more interesting monsters to grab for Mystara...

Oh, alright then :)


> > > > Anyway, Ropers are kinda silly.... ;)

> You think Beholders are silly or just over-powered (if you're
> wondering I think they're just as silly as Ropers)?

Both :)

I also have experience from a Dragonlance campaign where we had to go
through several adventures where every monster encountered was one or
other subspecies of Beholders. We ended up avoiding beholder-infested
dungeons after that...

> > I think the human cultures are more defining of mystara than any monster
> > could be.
>
> I totally agree with you, and that is also why I say that I'm not sure
> I want any monsters that are definitely Mystaran...

Well, maybe youre right.
I wrote this in a fit of Mystaran patriotism and didnt think about the
consequences... :)

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:29:52 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Zyxl--history

Jeff wrote:

>>Dogs know differently.  To them, Zyxl was the "Reforger of the Link", the
>>"Prince of a Thousand Fleas" and "He Who Points".  It has been speculated
>>that dogs do not have an immortal patron because they already worship Man.

<snip>

Well done there, Jeff! Easily on par with Andrew's Aarh! :)

Geoff

--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:08:18 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: Benekander problem
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:03:58   Federico Kaftal wrote:
>Hey! That's the first time in my life I have to thank a nasty Alphatian mage
>for his contribution.
>
>Well.. those tender teddy bears are not that evil, indeed :)
>
(snip my own mail)

So you're thanking a Alphatian? The age of wonders is not yet over it seems... ;)

IC: "Nasty? Hrmph! See if I'll ever do you a favor again!"

OOC: Glad to be of service! :)


   - The Stalker



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:19:51 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:25:43   David Knott wrote:
>In a message dated 2000-10-18 7:34:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes:
>
>> Magic fails on the Day of Dread - period!
>>
>>  If this ruins memorizations of spells, then the next day, a spellcaster
>> would need to rememorize all the spells he wants.
>
>I would say that a spellcaster loses only those spells that he attempts
>to cast on the Day of Dread.  If he has his full complement of spells
>memorized/prepared prior to the Day of Dread and does not attempt
>to cast any spells on the Day of Dread itself, then he still has all his
>spells the day after.  I would imagine that most spellcasters would be
>a spell or two short the first time the Day of Dread occurs but would
>stop trying to cast spells once they realize that their spells are
>failing.  On subsequent recurrences, most spellcasters would know
>not to cast any spells that day and thus would be in the same
>condition on Nuwmont 1 that they would have been on the Day of
>Dread itself if magic worked that day.
>

Well, this is how I would do it too, but as people have pointed out, it is not supported by 3e. Great! Just what I needed - another reason to dislike 3e :( Given that I've already admitted to being a confessed 3e skeptic, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I don't like this either.
   There is, however, one reason why I think this would not be right for Mystara - WotI and the PWAs (all canon material, in fact) was written long before 3e was ever thought of... So naturally, these events were written not assuming this. But I would agree with David that a wizard would lose a memorized spell if he *attempts* casting it on the DoD...
   Also, if this is the way things work in 3e, then one would be able to remove all spells from a spellcaster simply by casting a successful Dispel Magic at him, right? If that is the case, then Dispel Magic will surely be a popular spell, I predict.


   - The Stalker



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:54:53 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri

>
>I think a scenario that James suggested a few days ago, though it seems odd at
>first, isn't that much when you look closer at it, and it would allow to patch
>the holes in WotI.
>
>The scenario is that of the Grand Council teleporting outside Glantri and
>progressing toward the city, rather than appearing directly over Glantri.

<snip rest>

Sounds  good to me too.  Of course, we should then consider the extent of
the damage in the lands surrounding the city.  Burnt-down forests,
scorched earth, probably many homesteads are still in ruin, I'd think.

Geoff

--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:20:50 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Geoff Gander <au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the

>While I think I can understand what you wrote there, can you please write in
>English? After all it is the "common" language of the "real world". And if I
>am not mistaken it is also the official and only language of this mailing
>list.

>Morphail

Hmmm..not sure about that.  Someone could check the FAQ if they wanted
(it's 1:30 am here and I'm burning the midnight oil, as it were - not much in
the mood to check), but AFAIK no one has made an official policy on the
matter.  If no one complains overmuch, I'd be inclined to let the matter
be.  As an English speaker, of course I'd *prefer* that language to be
used (as it is, as you correctly put it, the "common" one), but I won't
ban other languages out of hand.

Geoff

--
Geoff Gander, BA 97
Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon
Carnifex Loremaster
au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:55:54 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand Wizards)
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In a message dated 2000-10-19 11:22:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes:

>    Also, if this is the way things work in 3e, then one would be able to
> remove all spells from a spellcaster simply by casting a successful Dispel
> Magic at him, right? If that is the case, then Dispel Magic will surely be
a
> popular spell, I predict.

I think that is a change far in excess of what anyone involved in 3E
anticipated -- so I would tend to discount it unless you can cite
something that very strongly supports the interpretation that spells
that have been prepared but not yet cast/completed can be lost/
disrupted so easily.  After all, a character who is raised by a Raise
Dead spell has a 50% chance of retaining any prepared spell, while
a character raised by a Resurrection or True Resurrection spell
loses no spells except those that the resultant level loss denies
him access to.  Under those circumstances, I am not sure how
spells that were prepared prior to the Day of Dread and never
cast/completed during that day would be lost.

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:55:56 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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In a message dated 2000-10-16 8:45:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes:

> Mages are powerful, but they're powerful in magic. Without magic, they have
> assets, but when surrounded by a rabid nation out for their blood. . .

But Glantri is a nation that is just as dependent on magic as Alphatia was.
Note this quote from the first Week Without Magic:

"All across the world, sky-ships falter and sink to the ground; the more
savvy captains are able to make safe landings, while inexperienced crews
crash and perish."

The logical assumption to make about the Thousand Wizards is that
they are more likely to be "savvy" than "inexperienced" in the handling
of whatever devices they are using to support their flight over Glantri
City.  Also, given their levels, it is quite likely that many of them have
in their possession Artifacts that still work during the week after the
destruction of Alphatia -- and it would not take many demonstrations
of the powers of such Artifacts to dissuade most Glantrians from trying
to hunt them down.

So, while I did not originally take the effects of that second week without
magic into account, I think it is still safe to say that a large portion of
the
Thousand Wizards were able to survive that week by their wits.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:55:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
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I think that the reversal of the drain was meant to introduce new and subtle
problems for Mystara after a lengthy delay during which conditions are
reasonably tolerable.  I figured that the "Rad drain level" would simply
start going down rather than up with further use of the Radiance.  The
first clue that mortals other than those who participated in the climax of
WotI would receive that something has changed would be when the Day
of Dread ceases to occur -- something that should not happen if the
Nucleus were still draining magic in the normal way.  That "reverse drain"
would continue until one of two things happens:

1) Agents of the Sphere of Entropy figure out what is happening and
send Evil/Entropic adventurers to set the Nucleus back to normal.
Once they do that, the normal magic drain resumes.

2) The Rad drain level falls below zero.  As that level becomes increasingly
negative, Mystara suffers a magical overload that makes that world ever
stranger until the Nucleus of the Spheres explodes at -5000 Rad force,
thereby bringing about a cataclysm that forever alters Mystara beyond
recognition.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:19:13 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Weeks Without Magic and HW Spell of Preservation
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Andr�s Piquer Otero wrote:

It's Immortal-level magic, though, not affected by the Day of
Dread. BUT, it was affected by the Week Without Magic, and indeed things
changed, especially some spells becoming possible in the HW, like charms
and resurrection (the PWA has a complete listing).

Andr�s

******************

Well... I would say that no Charm or Resurrection, nor any other spell would
work as well in the HW too, during a WWM.

Federico
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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:23:49 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
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H�vard wrote:

Bruce Heard once posted a theory that in the long run it would
be impossible to drain Entropy because _draining_ in itself is
within that Spheres influence. So for a short while this would be a blow
against the BoS, but in the long term it would stabilize.

*******************

What does it mean *stabilize* - come back to draining Energy? And, if so, by
which means?
Can we have some light from Bruce?
Bruce, are you still with us?

Thanks,

Federico

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:35:45 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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David Knott wrote:

The logical assumption to make about the Thousand Wizards is
that they are more likely to be "savvy" than "inexperienced" in the
handling of whatever devices they are using to support their flight over
Glantri City.  Also, given their levels, it is quite likely that many of
them have in their possession Artifacts that still work during the week
after the destruction of Alphatia -- and it would not take many
demonstrations of the powers of such Artifacts to dissuade most Glantrians
from trying to hunt them down.

**********************

Except that:

1. They didn't use skyships, they were just Flying - so, however savy might
they be, no fotunate landing was possible other than a mere

*SPLAT!*

(sorry for my friend The Stalker, I didn't mean to sound greed...)

2. Remember that WotI expressely states that during the two Weeks Without
Magic no magic works at all, not even artifacts or immortal magic. So the
savy Alphatian Archmages could only rely on their experience and wisdom to
hide from the Glantrian mob, but they retained absolutely none of their
magical powers (and they were all severely hurt from the fall).
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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:38:30 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Max Monas <maxmonas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Priests of Loki
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Hi guys and girls,

I have one tiny question about priests of Loki. What sphere do you think the
can casts spells from? What would be the major sphere and what would be the
minor? I don't exactly know from which sphere my NPC evil-priest could cast
spells from, so your help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Regards,

Max
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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:22:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Herve Musseau <hmusseau@YAHOO.COM>
Subject:      Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM
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Geoff wrote:
>>I think a scenario that James suggested a few days ago, though it seems odd
at
>>first, isn't that much when you look closer at it, and it would allow to
patch
>>the holes in WotI.
>
>>The scenario is that of the Grand Council teleporting outside Glantri and
>>progressing toward the city, rather than appearing directly over Glantri.
>
><snip rest>

Hey, how come I didn't see my own message pop up? Did I miss it, or did the
server again send the digests in an erratically way (it happens now and then)?

>Sounds  good to me too.  Of course, we should then consider the extent of
>the damage in the lands surrounding the city.  Burnt-down forests,
>scorched earth, probably many homesteads are still in ruin, I'd think.

Yes, a lot of the surrounding countryside would then be in ruin, and even more
in the MA present as the Ethengarians also fought the Glantrians in the
viscinity of Glantri City. Between the two of them, while Glantri City would be
only lightly damaged its surroundings would be quite blasted.

On to another topic, albeit a related one: James mentioned that canon suggests
there were two WWMs: one when Sundvall was destroyed (first activation of the
Doomsday Weapon) and one when Alphatia sunk (second activation).

Intrigued (and remembering I found WotI unclear on that matter in past
readings), I checked, and indeed canon is messy at best, or inconsistent at
worst.

In WotI, the Events only mention one WWM, right after the destruction of
Sundsvall. Magic fails for one week, Eridna and many other wizards die, Zandor
grabs power, summons what's left of the Council (many have already died as a
result of the WWM) and orders the attack on Glantri. During the attack over
Glantri City, the Doomsday Weapon is activated a second time, for one of
several reasons (PCs' actions, Immortals' battle, Old One, Alphatian wizards'
magical release) and Alphatia sinks within hours. The Events doesn't mention a
second WWM, though. Now, in the Adventure section, at this point the PCs are
rescued by Benekander, and, the text adds, magic fails for one week.

WotI is messy in several places, especially as to how things resolve at the and
(I had to reread several times the different alternate endings, wrap-up, and
Events, to understand what the various suggested possibilities were). At the
time, given that seemingly there were two WWMs and I didn't think it was
logical, I decided only one would happen. The destruction of Sundvsall, I
decided, was still pretty controlled, and though it went beyond what Rad
expected and destroyed Sundsvall, there was no WWM then. The destruction of
Sundvsall, the killing of several people and especially many wizards and the
court (among them the empress) was enough to cause the outrage that would
justify the Council agreeing, for the most part, to Zandor's plan of directly
assaulting Glantri. Then, as the NoS was activated a second time in an
uncontrolled fashion, there would be a WWM, with Alphatia sinking, many wizards
dying, etc. This scenario works well IMO, and though I now prefer another one
(detailed below), it is definetelty useable in individual campaigns where it is
deemed more appropriate by the DM.

But as I said I reread canon on that subject, and that meant not only WotI but
the PWAs. First of all, no canon ever mentioned two WWMs, but only just one.
Then, the first PWA, also written by Aaron Allston, goes into some detail in
the Alphatia atlas entry, probably because he noticed how messy WotI was so he
tried to clear it up. It's still not that clear with it, but at least it
explains a few things.

PWA1 says that the second activation of the NoS was caused by the Immortals'
battle. It also says that wizards tried to save as much as they could when
Alphatia was sinking (the efforts by the king of Aquas are well known, for
instance).

Thus I propose the following scenario, hopefully patching all the holes in
canon while remaining true to it:

The first activation of the Doomsday Weapon destroys Sundsvall, and causes a
Week Without Magic. Mortal magic fails for one week, and many wizards (notably
in Alphatia) die, including Empress Eriadna. Immortal magic is dispelled (and
Immortals in a mortal id are trapped for the whole week unless they kill their
mortal body) but further Immortal magic works, so that they can immediately set
on the task of preventing damage here and there. Palatarkan immediately saves
Floating Ar by preventing the floating island from crashing. Ixion, presumably
occupied to organize his war against Glantri (maybe he was trapped in a mortal
id somewhere), reopens the Gate to the Sphere of Energy that is the Red Sun
only after a full day, so that the HW is in athe dark for one sleep, causing
much chaos there as many believe it is the end of the world (plus, the SoP is
negated for the same length of time, giving the Burrowers some rest); the SoP
is reinstated when the Red Sun returns, but reduced in strength.

Zandor assumes the throne, and orders the Council to strike directly at
Glantri; those that refuse (including a resurrected Terari/Tylion), are exiled.

The members of the Grand Council that are still alive and accepted to attack
Glantri, teleport outside the city and begin unleashing their spells in the
countryside, heading toward the city. At the same time, the PCs arrive in the
NoS's cave, then Rad, then Ixion, and the two Immortals start fighting. During
their fight the Doomsday Device activates, and Alphatia starts sinking. Rad is
drown into the NoS, and Ixion, appaled at what has just happened, leaves. The
PCs, if they are heroic enough, use the opportunity to change the setting of
the NoS, either during the fight or just after, so that it drains from Entropy
rather than Energy; thus they are the one who strike a blow against Entropy
(and thus it's not an undeserved punishment of the BoS by an Old One); if IYC
you don't intend to put the PCs through WotI (or rather, not through the
scripted adventure), then assume other PCs, or Benekander himself, do it
instead - as an asside, if you assume that Gareth is Benekander, this stroke
against the BoS would explain his rather highish level. Magic does NOT fail.
The wizards of the Council that are currently torching Glantri (but most of
them are still outside the city itself) receive magical warnings of what is
happening at home and teleport back (some might remain, though) to try to save
what they can (Alphatians being Alphatians, of their belongings first, and of
Alphatia second). Several Immortals, presumably Alphatian ones foremost, whisk
away the Alphatians that died during the sinking and those that haven't died
yet, before they can take the necessary steps to recreate Alphatia in the HW
(if you use the MAs then some Alphatians get sucked into Alphatian Artifacts,
their souls bound to the items by Radiance energy; those aren't
saved/resurrected by the Immortals in the HW).

Thus, most Council members would lie dead in recreated Alphatia in the HW,
killed during the WWM and/or the destruction of Alphatia, though nothing
prevents them from being resurrected (Eriadna was resurrected by the Immortals
because no one would try it on her as a result of Zandor's actions). Some would
be anywhere on the surface world as a result of their exile (notably in
Karameikos). Some would lie dead as a result of the war or the assault on
Glantri, or living anywhere if they participated but didn't die yet didn't
return to sinking Alphatia. If you use the MAs, a few would be trapped in AAs.
Then, of those that survived the WWM and went to Glantri and back, a good
portion would have left sinking Alphatia (presumable for the IoD or
Bellissaria) with what spellbooks and magic items they wanted to save, while
the others were still in Alphatia salvaging their possessions (or helping
people) when the Immortals took people away, and are now in the HW, alive and well.

=====
___________________________________________________________
Herve Musseau <hmusseau@yahoo.com>
http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:24:47 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
In-Reply-To:  <65.b383015.2721386f@aol.com>
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, David Knott wrote:

> I think that the reversal of the drain was meant to introduce new and subtle
> problems for Mystara after a lengthy delay during which conditions are
> reasonably tolerable.  I figured that the "Rad drain level" would simply
> start going down rather than up with further use of the Radiance.  The
> first clue that mortals other than those who participated in the climax of
> WotI would receive that something has changed would be when the Day
> of Dread ceases to occur -- something that should not happen if the
> Nucleus were still draining magic in the normal way.  That "reverse drain"
> would continue until one of two things happens:

This makes sense!
The more I think about it the more I _hate_ the Day of Dread.

If Entropy is the opposite of all the other Spheres, it should be made up
of the following:
Anti-Matter
Anti-Energy
Anti-Thought
Anti-Time

Draining Entropy basically means strenghtening one or more of the other
Spheres. So, maybe the new NoS just drains Anti-Energy, meaning that in
the long run Energy is strengthened as you suggest.

> 1) Agents of the Sphere of Entropy figure out what is happening and
> send Evil/Entropic adventurers to set the Nucleus back to normal.
> Once they do that, the normal magic drain resumes.

> 2) The Rad drain level falls below zero.  As that level becomes increasingly
> negative, Mystara suffers a magical overload that makes that world ever
> stranger until the Nucleus of the Spheres explodes at -5000 Rad force,
> thereby bringing about a cataclysm that forever alters Mystara beyond
> recognition.

If Rad returns as an Immortal, I'm sure his top priority will be to fix
the NoS, so that it:
a) Doesn't destroy Glantri
b) Doesn't produce Entropic Immortals.

Since this is the work of an Old One, Rad will have a hard time reversing
these effects, and may employ several groups of powerful mortals to help
him.


H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:33:03 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= <hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote:

> What does it mean *stabilize* - come back to draining Energy? And, if so, by
> which means?

I think *stabilize* meant that it basically doesn't drain anything.
But I think David Knotts idea works even better.

> Can we have some light from Bruce?
> Bruce, are you still with us?

Yeah Bruce, where have you been? :)

H�vard

Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no)
http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc

"Would it not be easier in this case for the government
 to dissolve the people and elect another?"  -Bertolt Brecht

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:46:22 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      Ogg.: Re: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate of the Thousand
              Wizards)
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Il Fri, 20 October 2000, The Stalker ha scritto:

>
> On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:25:43   David Knott wrote:
> >In a message dated 2000-10-18 7:34:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes:
> >
> >> Magic fails on the Day of Dread - period!
> >>
> >>  If this ruins memorizations of spells, then the next day, a spellcaster
> >> would need to rememorize all the spells he wants.
> >
> >I would say that a spellcaster loses only those spells that he attempts
> >to cast on the Day of Dread.  If he has his full complement of spells
> >memorized/prepared prior to the Day of Dread and does not attempt
> >to cast any spells on the Day of Dread itself, then he still has all his
> >spells the day after.  I would imagine that most spellcasters would be
> >a spell or two short the first time the Day of Dread occurs but would
> >stop trying to cast spells once they realize that their spells are
> >failing.  On subsequent recurrences, most spellcasters would know
> >not to cast any spells that day and thus would be in the same
> >condition on Nuwmont 1 that they would have been on the Day of
> >Dread itself if magic worked that day.
> >
>
> Well, this is how I would do it too, but as people have pointed out, it is not supported by 3e. Great! Just what I needed - another reason to dislike 3e :( Given that I've already admitted to being a confessed 3e skeptic, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that I don't like this either.
>    There is, however, one reason why I think this would not be right for Mystara - WotI and the PWAs (all canon material, in fact) was written long before 3e was ever thought of... So naturally, these events were written not assuming this. But I would agree with David that a wizard would lose a memorized spell if he *attempts* casting it on the DoD...
>    Also, if this is the way things work in 3e, then one would be able to remove all spells from a spellcaster simply by casting a successful Dispel Magic at him, right? If that is the case, then Dispel Magic will surely be a popular spell, I predict.
>
>
>    - The Stalker
>

I thik more and more that the OD&D is mauch better than 3E... whit the right corrections and adds



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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:23:48 CEST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Federico Kaftal <kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Second WWM and developments
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Following Herv�'s e-mail, I am now proposing a different sequence of events:

1. Two Weeks Without Magic indeed take place. This means (according to Gaz
3) that the level of Energy in Mystara is becoming dangerously low.

2. Either the PCs manage to reprogram the NoS or else Benekander, after the
2nd WWM, reprograms the Nucleus himself, thus draining from Entropy now
instead of Energy. In this case Benekander casts multiple Passwords on the
system and multiple Immortal Wishes, in order for these passwords not to be
uncovered by Entropic Immortals.

3. Luckily for the Mages of Mystara, when Rad is absorbed into the NoS he
loses immortality (and later he'll come back to Mystara after "Mark of
Amber" in a mere mortal form): all his Immortal life-force (Power Points
belonging to an Immortal of the Sphere of Energy) happen to RESTORE the
Energy drained by the Nucleus until that moment, at least to a pre-WotI
status, where a single Day of Dread occurs each year (see Gaz 3 - the
Radiance - for more details). This also mean that Elves, Dragons, and other
magical races no longer risk extinction. Ka is pleased by the situation.

3. Entropic Immortals soon realize that the NoS is now draining Entropy and
try hard first to reprogram it, then (since they're not able because of
Benekander's locks) to destroy it. But they can't as they don't know the NoS
enough. This is IMO a very good idea for a Companion/Master level campaign:
the PCs are either defending the NoS from Entropy or trying to destroy it:
in this case they might be Evil PCs or they might also have been deceived by
Atzanteotl or by Loki who persuades them in disguise that the NoS is still
draining from Energy!).

4. This becomes EXTREMELY intriguing when Etienne regains immortality in the
Sphere of Entropy and finds himself doomed between his new more powerful
comrades (Hel, Thanathos, etc.) who urge him to destroy the NoS as the one
who best knows its weak points, and Benekander who won't help him reprogram
the NoS and tamper with mortal life again.


What d'you think, guys & girls?

Federico
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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:26:39 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Dylan Gault <dylan.gault@SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      3E spells (was: DoD/Fate of a thousand wizards)
In-Reply-To:  <JNOIMNDPOFMOKAAA@angelfire.com>
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The Stalker wrote:

>    Also, if this is the way things work in 3e, then one would be able to
> remove all spells from a spellcaster simply by casting a successful Dispel
> Magic at him, right? If that is the case, then Dispel Magic will surely be
> a popular spell, I predict.
>

Just because a spell is prepared, that does not mean that there is
actually active magic around a wizard. The magic of spells is
brought about through the proper combination of words, gestures
and physical ingredients in the right combination. A spell is
prepared when the wizard does as much of that combination in
advance as possible. The 3E system is not like Earthdawn, in
which spells are prepared and held as magical constructs near the
character in astral space. Part of the hermetic process of preparing
the spell might be setting up a certain idea in the mind, a la
memorization, but thus need not be magical either.

Not even Mordenkainen's Disjunction, the ultimate dispel magic,
removes prepared spells.

Surely, however, the attempt to cast a spell on the DoD or during
the WWOM ruins the preparation and requires the wizard to
reprepare in order to cast the spell in the future. Now whether one
can prepare a spell in an anti-magic field or in a time of no magic is
up to you. It could be that there is a subtle magic involved in
aligning one's mind/brain/body and the matierial components during
preparation. This would be a permanent transformation, thus
magical effect ends when the preparation is completed.

Staunchly defending 3E ('cause I bought it),

Dylan G

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:33:13 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Priests of Loki
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> I have one tiny question about priests of Loki. What sphere do you
think the
> can casts spells from? What would be the major sphere and what would
be the
> minor? I don't exactly know from which sphere my NPC evil-priest could
cast
> spells from, so your help would be appreciated.

You mean AD&D spheres, right :)

My first advice would be to look up the Norse pantheon in Legends & Lore
(get it from the WotC downloads).
I'll add at least the "Chaos" sphere from the Tome of Magic (as major).

I don't know whether this would be ok for priests of Bozdogan (I don't
have L&L with me right now), but I could suggest:

All, Chaos, Charme, Divination, Healing (also reversed, minor),
Necromancy (reversed only), Sun (reversed only, minor), Protection
(perhaps only some spells of protection vs. divinations), Travellers
(minor, perhaps only to prophets and other wandering priests).

Rationale: priests of Bozdogan are supposed to rely on their wits, so
they have lots of spells which can help them in persuading others
(Charme, Divination & Prot. vs. Divinations, Healing). Other spheres
have symbolic meaning (darkness spells, for ex.)
Travellers is both for evasion and because I see the clergy of Bozdogan
as mainly composed by wandering prophets (other priests might receive
different powers/spells).
--

        Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:17:54 -0500
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Web Warlock <web_warlock@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 18 Oct 2000 to 19 Oct 2000 (#2000-293)
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No, sorry to disapoint.  I am NOT a warlock, any more than I am the Dali
Lama.

I just play one on the web! ;).

No in real life I am something far worse, a psychologist!

Warlock.

--
Web Warlock  webwarlock@iname.com
The Other Side, http://rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
Home of the Complete Netbook of Witches and Warlocks



>
> Date:    Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:50:46 +0200
> From:    Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
> Subject: Re: MISC: Opinions wanted, Witches.
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Some of you know me.  I am Warlock and I did the "Complete Netbook of
> > Witches and Warlocks".
> > I really like witches.  Maybe I am obsessed with them. But I really like
> > playing them.  So to that end I am putting out a new supplement to my
> > netbook.  Among other things it features witches that are unique to
> various
> > game worlds, both official and on-line ones.
> >
>
> Hmm, I like what you did here although you realise it won't work with
> "canon" or the other things people dine for Glantri because it is very
> different. But of course being different is a good thing.
> One thing though. When you say "I am a Warlock" do you mean you play a
> Warlock in role playing games or that your relegion is that of a wokan? I
> came to know an Australian girl who was a witch and she took it quite
> seriously.
>
> Morphail
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:06:17 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         "Kessel, Laszko van" <L.vanKessel@CITEE.NL>
Subject:      Trade advice for Merchant Princes
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi all,

For all Merchant Princes out there, I have created a trade advice module. It
runs on my website and gives you an idea what to buy and what not, for
trading between Known World cities. NACE and Savage Coast cities are not
shown, but the code is included in the webpage, so webwizards can use it...

The second module is a weather report for Darokin, even less useful, but
nice to look at.

Both can be reached from the homepage of Mercies Auction House.

Laszko
http://www.xs4all.nl/~enee

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:00:22 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: MYSTARA-L Digest - 18 Oct 2000 to 19 Oct 2000
              (#2000-293)
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>
> No in real life I am something far worse, a psychologist!
>
> Warlock.
>
AHHHH!!!!!

Run for your life!!!! This Warlock will shrink your heads!!

:-)
MOrphail

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:05:27 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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Jacob Skytte wrote:

> erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE> wrote:
>
> > Flaurmont 3:
> > parliament day (glantri)
> > the house of ministers and parliament of glantri takes the day off >from work
> > there are elves of erewan and shadow elves.
>
> That would be Erewan and Belcadiz elves. :)
> And if you're going to list Glantri's holidays as Erewan and Belcadiz holidays, there are some more (in the PWA III).

yes, but i don`t summ up it here, because there are to much holydays in different nations. in
that elven live.

>
> > Yarthmont 15:
> > first day of births (shadow elves)
> > all bithe in thsi month are especially lucky.
>
> That should be Yarthmont 9 according to PWA III.
>

you are right

>
> > more?
>
> Ambyrmont 17:
> Mustering Day (Shadow Elves)
> Military parades. Census of all adult Shadow Elves. 1st day in month of Army.
>
> Sviftmont 13:
> Birthday of Tarasfir (Shadow Elves)
> Birthday of the first Shadow Elf king.
>
> Kaldmont 28:
> Year's End Feast (Shadow Elves)
> In Aengmor and the City of Stars Shadow Elves celebrate with huge feasts.

IBON

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:50:20 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: 3E spells (was: DoD/Fate of a thousand wizards)
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On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:26:39   Dylan Gault wrote:
>The Stalker wrote:
>
>>    Also, if this is the way things work in 3e, then one would be able to
>> remove all spells from a spellcaster simply by casting a successful Dispel
>> Magic at him, right? If that is the case, then Dispel Magic will surely be
>> a popular spell, I predict.
>>
>
>Just because a spell is prepared, that does not mean that there is
>actually active magic around a wizard. The magic of spells is
>brought about through the proper combination of words, gestures
>and physical ingredients in the right combination. A spell is
>prepared when the wizard does as much of that combination in
>advance as possible. The 3E system is not like Earthdawn, in
>which spells are prepared and held as magical constructs near the
>character in astral space. Part of the hermetic process of preparing
>the spell might be setting up a certain idea in the mind, a la
>memorization, but thus need not be magical either.
>
>Not even Mordenkainen's Disjunction, the ultimate dispel magic,
>removes prepared spells.
>

I agree, and this is what I would do in any campaign in which I'm the DM...

>Surely, however, the attempt to cast a spell on the DoD or during
>the WWOM ruins the preparation and requires the wizard to
>reprepare in order to cast the spell in the future.

Why? I don't understand this given your argument above. If magic fails, then it fails - period! Why would the WWM ruin the memorization, or 'preparation' as the case may be, while a Dispel Magic spell would not - in both cases all magic is dispelled (if the Dispel Magic spell is successful), so I don't see a difference.

> Now whether one
>can prepare a spell in an anti-magic field or in a time of no magic is
>up to you.

To me memorizing or preparing a spell is a purely mental process, so I would certainly allow this, yes - the spellcaster still wouldn't be able to cast it, obviously, and then spell would also be lost if he even tried.

> It could be that there is a subtle magic involved in
>aligning one's mind/brain/body and the matierial components during
>preparation. This would be a permanent transformation, thus
>magical effect ends when the preparation is completed.
>
>Staunchly defending 3E ('cause I bought it),
>

Well, I was looking very much forward to 3e when I first heard of it, so I'm sorely disappointed by the results... There are far too many 'holes' in the system for my taste.
    Want an example? The Concentration skill is based on Constitution!??? Why? If anything it should be based on Wisdom - in PO rules, Willpower is a subability of Wisdom, and 3e rules even describes Wisdom as a measure of, among other things, willpower... But it would seem that WOTC don't think that willpower is important for successful concentration... Given how many playtesters were involved with 3e, I find it disappointing that there are still flaws like this in there. Sure, they might have chosen to base it on Con for reasons of balance. In principle there is nothing wrong with that, but it becomes a problem when the result works contrary to one's attempts to suspend disbelief - and mine is stretched much too far in this case, because it just doesn't make sense to me, and I know that a fairly large percentage of people on DND-L have made similar complaints and immediately changed this in their campaigns before they even began playing 3e, which does not speak well of the system :(
    Another example? John Calvin mentioned to me since wizard is the favored class for an elf, it is quite strange that wizards are listed as being predominantly lawful in alignment, when elves are described as quite chaotic. In this case sorcerors would, who are more chaotic, would have made more sense for the favored elf class, but WOTC didn't catch that one either (and I'd better not say much about sorcerors, either)...
    I've bought 3e too (PHB, DMG, *and* MM), but the more I read, the more disappointed I am - especially since WOTC are going to force this down our throats whether we like it or not, seeing as how older versions will be purged from Dragon, Dungeon, and any published modules - if TSR had done this when 2e came out, they would have faced lynch-mobs, I think :(


   - The Stalker, staunch 3e skeptic



Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:10:59 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         "Jenni A. M. Merrifield" <strawbjamm@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Trade advice for Merchant Princes
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From: "Kessel, Laszko van" <L.vanKessel@CITEE.NL>
> Hi all,
>
> For all Merchant Princes out there, I have created a trade advice module.
It
> runs on my website and gives you an idea what to buy and what not, for
> trading between Known World cities. NACE and Savage Coast cities are not
> shown, but the code is included in the webpage, so webwizards can use
it...

Hey, I have a question -- you mention NACE and Savage Coast so I guess the
existing trade advice is aimed at the Post-Wrath Era.  Is there any
posibility you might do the same for the AC1000 / Pre-Wrath era?

> The second module is a weather report for Darokin, even less useful, but
> nice to look at.

  Sounds neat anyway. :-)

  I'll have to take a look at both "modules" just to see what you've cooked
up.

Jenni

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:30:34 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards

> David Knott wrote:
>> Also, given their levels, it is quite likely that many of
them have in their possession Artifacts that still work during the week after the destruction of Alphatia <<

Actually, no.

Artifacts work on the Day of Dread, but Immortal Magic (which would include Artifacts) doesn't work during the Weeks Without Magic (as WotI indicates).

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:42:57 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards

>> But Glantri is a nation that is just as dependent on magic as Alphatia was. <<

Yes, but Glantri didn't bring only their mages to the party. The Alphatians *only* have mages on this occasion. Or are you trying to say that all Glantrians are wizards and they wouldn't have any other sorts of person to go after the Alphatians?

Now, under "normal" circumstances a company of bowmen wouldn't do much to the Alphatian wizards (Protection From Normal Missiles), but with no magic, these guys are firing at AC 9, at splattered Wizards to boot (impact wouldn't be pleasant, wishful thinking on the part of some to the contrary notwithstanding).

But if you assume that Glantri only has wizards and has no bowmen in its forces, then I guess you might reach the conclusion you have. But that seems bizzare to me, just as bizzare as ignoring falling damage.

(Alphatian Skyships, too, btw, considering that the majority of them are "ship-shaped" rather than winged, have about as much aerodynamic lift as a helicopter, not a plane, and when they suddenly lose power the effect will be the same. Sure, some savy pilots might affect a soft landing, as the Event says, but lets not over state how many that will be, given the aerodynamics of these Skyships. If they were winged, rather than sailed, more would be able to glide in).

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=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:02:02 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM

>> Hey, how come I didn't see my own message pop up? Did I miss it, or did the server again send the digests in an erratically way (it happens now and then)? <<

Probably the latter.


>> The Events doesn't mention a second WWM, though. <snipped details><<

I have to say that seems to work as a good theory, with the stuff that one might quibble about (I.E. the extent to which Immortal magic works during the Week Without Magic) at least explaining some of the things (for instance, Palatarkan saving Floating Ar; since the floating islands were originally enchanted with Mortal level magic, before he became Immortal, one might think they'd crash during the Day of Dread, but this would explain why that doesn't happen - at the time he saved them/restored them, he did so with his Immortal magic, and thus the islands are not affected by the lack of Mortal magic on the Day of Dread, so that would explain why they keep flying on the 28th of Kaldmont each year).

So that sounds like a reasonable way to explain some things that are otherwise "strange".

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:39:31 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
Subject:      Re: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Day of Dread (was: Fate
              oftheThousandWizards)
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> Actually, considered the number of Thyatian dialects (Caurenzan =
> Italian, Hattian = German), we could be speaking three or four languages
> at the same time :)
> --
wouldn't that indicate that thyatian common is a mix of these dialects that
it equates to  ....  english,
a mix of germanic (angle,saxon,jute) and romance (latin and to a degree
french) as well as a selection of words from other languages.

mortus.

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Date:         Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:38:01 GMT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         kevin wyton <caliir@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Elven Holidays
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>From: erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE>
>Reply-To: Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
>To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Elven Holidays
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:57:19 +0200
>
>Jacob Skytte wrote:
>
> > erewan laubgaenger <IBON@GMX.DE> wrote:
> >
> > > > Indeed the almanacs list a number of Shadow Elven holidays as well
>as a few for the Glantrian elves, but none that seem related to Alfheim. I
>guess those flighty elves just threw a party when they felt like it... ;)
>Yes, yes, I know they're not really like that; just call me a prejudiced
>Ostlander.
> > >
> > > alfheim becomes aengmor - it is in the forest of canolbarth.
> > > is this right? - then i have some holyday of shadowelfs and other
>elfs.
> > >
> > > informations are out of the Poor Wizards Almanac3.
> >
> > Yes, Aengmor is the former Alfheim in the (now twisted) Canolbarth
>Forest. But the holidays are decidedly Shadow elven in nature, and can't be
>used for other elves, since they're intrinsically linked to Shadow elven
>history and culture, not that of surface elves.
>
>Nuwmont 1:
>new year`s day
>glantri: elves celebrate good dpirit day with dances and praktical jokes.
>in aengmor and the city of the stars, shadow elves fast.
>
>Thaumont 1:
>spring equinox; new year`s day (other nations); the discovery (shadow
>elves)
>day and night has the same lenght.
>in aengmor and the city of the stars, shadow elves celebrate the discovery
>of
>the refuge of stone with feasting and singing.
>
>Flaurmont 3:
>parliament day (glantri)
>the house of ministers and parliament of glantri takes the day off from
>work
>there are elves of erewan and shadow elves.
>
>Flaurmont 13:
>first day of crystals (shadow elves)
>this marks the beginning of the shadow elf month of crystals. shadow elves
>living underground begin harvesting soul-crystals.
>
>Yarthmont 15:
>first day of births (shadow elves)
>all bithe in thsi month are especially lucky.
>
>Klarmont 12:
>the rejection (shadow elves)
>this day commemorates the time when the shadow elves petition for help
>from the alfheim elves was rejected. shadow elves abtain from food
>and water today and brood upon the rejection.
>
>Felmont 14:
>the Cornerstone (shadow elves), Feria de Toros (Belcadiz - Glantri)
>.......
>more?
>IBON
>Yes, Erewan I'd really appreciate anything you can find as I don't have any
>of the almanacs.
>The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp
>The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
>To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.
>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:29:43 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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In a message dated 2000-10-20 4:56:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> Except that:
>
>  1. They didn't use skyships, they were just Flying - so, however savy might
>  they be, no fotunate landing was possible other than a mere
>
>  *SPLAT!*
>
>  (sorry for my friend The Stalker, I didn't mean to sound greed...)

It said that they were flying, but not how -- so some could have been
in skyships.  Also, it is not clearly indicated that the failure of magic
was catasrophic -- if the failure was gradual enough, they might have
fallen gradually.

>  2. Remember that WotI expressely states that during the two Weeks Without
>  Magic no magic works at all, not even artifacts or immortal magic. So the
>  savy Alphatian Archmages could only rely on their experience and wisdom to
>  hide from the Glantrian mob, but they retained absolutely none of their
>  magical powers (and they were all severely hurt from the fall).

Actually the second Week Without Magic is different in that Immortal
magic still works -- remember that Benekander retains the ability to
heal the party at that point.  It is only in the first Week Without Magic
that Immortal magic fails.

In any case, there seems to have been no mention of the "Thousand
Corpses" stinking up Glantri and making the Plague there even worse
until the Glantrians are able to find and dispose of them all -- the
scenario where most of them survive and scatter would seem to be
the most plausible in the absence of indications to the contrary.

Personally I would have liked for them to have gone splat -- but I
seriously doubt that they did.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:29:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Second WWM and developments
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In a message dated 2000-10-20 6:28:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> 1. Two Weeks Without Magic indeed take place. This means (according to Gaz
>  3) that the level of Energy in Mystara is becoming dangerously low.
>
<snip>
>
>  3. Luckily for the Mages of Mystara, when Rad is absorbed into the NoS he
>  loses immortality (and later he'll come back to Mystara after "Mark of
>  Amber" in a mere mortal form): all his Immortal life-force (Power Points
>  belonging to an Immortal of the Sphere of Energy) happen to RESTORE the
>  Energy drained by the Nucleus until that moment, at least to a pre-WotI
>  status, where a single Day of Dread occurs each year (see Gaz 3 - the
>  Radiance - for more details). This also mean that Elves, Dragons, and other
>  magical races no longer risk extinction. Ka is pleased by the situation.

These two items would seem to be inconsistent, as the second Week
Without Magic would begin about the time that Etienne/Rad is absorbed
into the Nucleus.  Maybe that second Week (which I would argue might
really be only a single Day of Dread on the wrong day) was a mere
"hiccup" as the Nucleus adjusted to its new settings?

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:29:48 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Locked Nucleus?  (was Second WWM and developments)
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In a message dated 2000-10-20 6:28:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kaftal@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> 3. Entropic Immortals soon realize that the NoS is now draining Entropy and
>  try hard first to reprogram it, then (since they're not able because of
>  Benekander's locks) to destroy it. But they can't as they don't know the
NoS
>  enough. This is IMO a very good idea for a Companion/Master level campaign:
>  the PCs are either defending the NoS from Entropy or trying to destroy it:
>  in this case they might be Evil PCs or they might also have been deceived
by
>  Atzanteotl or by Loki who persuades them in disguise that the NoS is still
>  draining from Energy!).
>
>  4. This becomes EXTREMELY intriguing when Etienne regains immortality in
the
>  Sphere of Entropy and finds himself doomed between his new more powerful
>  comrades (Hel, Thanathos, etc.) who urge him to destroy the NoS as the one
>  who best knows its weak points, and Benekander who won't help him reprogram
>  the NoS and tamper with mortal life again.
>
>
>  What d'you think, guys & girls?

It is an interesting idea, although from the way I read WotI the changes
to the Nucleus were too much of a rush job for Benekander or anyone
else to have made them very secure -- especially since Gaz 3 strongly
suggests that the only ways to destroy the Nucleus are as follows:

1) Let the Rad Drain level reach overload at 5000 Rads, or

2) Travel back in time and prevent its creation (which would so
radically alter recent history that the player characters can be
assumed to undo their work as soon as they see its effects).

Finally, it is quite possible for the Nucleus of the Spheres to
still produce Immortals of Energy despite the reversal of its
magic drain -- if Etienne becomes an Immortal of Entropy,
that would pretty much defeat the entire purpose of the
_Mark of Amber_ adventure.

The simplest approach would be to say that the Rad Drain from
the Nucleus of the Spheres has been reversed after WotI, but
the powers of the Nucleus remain unchanged.  This reversal
will eventually lead to a conflict between the Spheres of
Energy and Entropy, with the other three Spheres initially
siding with the Sphere of Energy but eventually shifting to
side with Entropy.  The basic attitudes would be as follows:

Energy:  They love this state of affairs and want it to continue
indefinitely, despite the weird and as yet unknown effects that
are likely to occur at negative Rad Drain levels.

Entropy:  At first they seethe quietly as their power is reduced
by this reversed drain -- but they take advantage of the
"concentration effect" in Glantri to gain power there.  They
are the first to divine the likely effects of negative Rad Drain
and send their minions to Glantri City to find and correct the
problem.

Other Spheres:  Entropy is the only Sphere that they now like
less than Energy, so the general consensus is to let the negative
Rad Drain continue for a few decades until it is down to a more
acceptable level.  However, it will not escape their attention that
the power of the Sphere of Energy is growing in ways that turn
out to be inimical to sentient life.  As the Rad Drain level declines,
they eventually come to offer passive and then active aid to the
efforts of the Sphere of Entropy to reverse the Drain -- with the
most likely result that the Nucleus is eventually returned to its
original setting.

My speculation as to when each Sphere comes around to side
with Entropy is as follows:

Matter:  What they would really like to do is reverse the Drain
immediately and then kill off all members of the Brotherhood of
the Radiance, but they will reluctantly yield to the arguments
that it might be better to do that once magic no longer fails on
an annual basis.  However, once the Day of Dread stops occurring,
they come out strongly in favor of restoring the original Drain effect.

Time:  They see the reversed setting of the Nucleus as unnatural.
They also see the annual Day of Dread as unnatural.  While the
Day of Dread occurs each year they are willing to be patient,
but after it stops occurring they begin to work towards restoring
the original Drain.  Their efforts redouble if and when the Rad
Drain reaches negative values.

Thought:  This sphere is the most patient and does not become
alarmed until the Rad Drain level becomes negative -- at which
point they grasp the dire consequences that Energy is willing
to ignore.  At that point Energy would stand alone against the
other Spheres, and eventually somebody would succeed in
restoring the Nucleus to its original functioning.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:29:44 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM
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Another idea on the second Week Without Magic:

Note that its effects are described in very similar terms to the later
annual Day of Dread (since Immortal magic still works).  At the time
of the sinking of Alphatia, a Day of Dread occurs.  Since it does not
occur on Kaldmont 28 (the only day on which this event had occurred
every few decades or so in the past) and since it comes close on
the heels of the real Week Without Magic, most people (including
Immortals such as Benekander) believe that it is another Week
Without Magic.  However, when magic returns a day later, some
spellcasters gradually discover that magic works once again, and
the situation gradually returns to normal as word gets around.
Because this event proves to be of shorter duration and lesser
severity than the Week Without Magic, it is mostly forgotten
in the years that follow.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:58:49 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marco Fossati <marcogiulio.fossati@TIN.IT>
Subject:      Second WWM and developments
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Dear Listmembers,
about the struggles of the differents spheres arouind the NoS:
since now it drains Entropy in stead maybe the Spheres of Matter, Thought
and Time want to wait that the Rad Force to 0 before inverting the Nucleus
in order to bring magic on Mystara to its real original status-quo...
Can this be a possibility? tell me
By the way: I'm sure someone has already posted the effects of negative Rad
Force...could you send it again to the list because I've missed that
message?

Cheers,
Marco Fossati

P:S.: do you want to play and lurk in two wonderful PbEMs? mail me to
marcogiulio.fossati@tin.it

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:20:42 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Yazin Delmire <M76762@AOL.COM>
Subject:      What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and why?  (History)
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Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?

    I'd have to say that mine would have to be "Horror on the Hill" for low
level parties (OD&D).  Its fairly linear yes, but its got all the best parts
of a dungeon hack along with some good story elements.
    For advanced parties it would have to be "Saga of the Shadowlord" (again,
OD&D).  Its an in-depth module and not afraid to take evil on by the horns.
Unfortunately, my copy seems to have disappeared years ago.

    Also, can someone give me the condensed version of Mystara's history?
When last I left it Threshold was a little town that was far away from
everyone.  But where does the DoD and the Princess Ark fit into all that?
Any input would be appreciated.  (and sorry if its a foolish question)
                                     M

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:25:48 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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In a message dated 2000-10-20 1:58:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes:

> Yes, but Glantri didn't bring only their mages to the party. The Alphatians
*
> only* have mages on this occasion. Or are you trying to say that all
> Glantrians are wizards and they wouldn't have any other sorts of person to
go
> after the Alphatians?

No, but I am saying that the failure of magic would create public order
problems that might limit the number of Glantrian troops availabe to
hunt for fugitive Alphatian wizards.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:25:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E spells (was: DoD/Fate of a thousand wizards)
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In a message dated 2000-10-20 11:09:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes:

> >Surely, however, the attempt to cast a spell on the DoD or during
>  >the WWOM ruins the preparation and requires the wizard to
>  >reprepare in order to cast the spell in the future.
>
>  Why? I don't understand this given your argument above. If magic fails,
then
> it fails - period! Why would the WWM ruin the memorization, or
'preparation'
> as the case may be, while a Dispel Magic spell would not - in both cases
all
> magic is dispelled (if the Dispel Magic spell is successful), so I don't
see
> a difference.

The preparation is ruined by the failed completion/casting of the spell,
just the way it would be if the caster failed an arcane spell failure
check or a Concentration roll during the casting process.  It is pretty
much the way things have always worked, with slightly different
terminology to explain it.  Once you begin the final casting of a spell,
that spell must either be cast successfully or lost.  Since the spell
cannot be cast successfully on the Day of Dread, it is lost at that
point.  However, if a spellcaster makes no attempt to cast a spell
during the Day of Dread, then all prepared spells should remain
prepared and available for use once the magic comes back.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:25:49 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E MM and Mystara
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In a message dated 2000-10-17 4:55:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

>         But the demihumans are all magical races, aren't they? Hell, elves
> died during the WWM.

No they didn't -- if they had, there would not be too many Elves alive
afterwards (as most of them had nobody to raise them or wish them
back to life).  There is mention of them growing ill and losing their
strength, but there should not have been large numbers of fatalities
except among those who were already ill or frail from other causes.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:25:50 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Monster Manual (was:3E MM and Mystara)
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In a message dated 2000-10-18 3:06:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
scythe@WANADOO.DK writes:

> > Because the monster has been presented in Mystara specific products (In my
>  > book the Creature Catalogues are Mystara Specific).
>
>  But hardly anywhere it would be taken particularly seriously. There must
be
> much more interesting monsters to grab for Mystara...

Given the large number of creatures that are mentioned in the Creature
Catalogs but nowhere else, I would not consider such monsters to be
Mystara specific unless another module or supplement places the
creatures in question in at least one location on Mystara.  Since a
single such reference should usually suffice, that still leaves us with
a lot of Mystara specific monsters.

In a message dated 2000-10-18 12:57:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO writes:

> I agree that there arent any monsters that are inherently Mystaran, at
>  least not like the Draconians of Dragonlance

The Savage Coast setting added a few such monsters -- anything affected
by the Red Curse has to be Mystaran.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:35:44 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Thibault Sarlat <thibsylv@CLUB-INTERNET.FR>
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and why?
              (History)
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it's not foolish at all. to find those datas, just go to the official site of
mystara and you would find what you're looking for.
http://dnd.starflung.com/

I do agree with you about Horror on the hill which i just loved to play again and
again as a DM but also with variation as a player.

Yazin Delmire a �crit :

> Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?
>
>     I'd have to say that mine would have to be "Horror on the Hill" for low
> level parties (OD&D).  Its fairly linear yes, but its got all the best parts
> of a dungeon hack along with some good story elements.
>     For advanced parties it would have to be "Saga of the Shadowlord" (again,
> OD&D).  Its an in-depth module and not afraid to take evil on by the horns.
> Unfortunately, my copy seems to have disappeared years ago.
>
>     Also, can someone give me the condensed version of Mystara's history?
> When last I left it Threshold was a little town that was far away from
> everyone.  But where does the DoD and the Princess Ark fit into all that?
> Any input would be appreciated.  (and sorry if its a foolish question)
>                                      M
>
> ********************************************************************
> The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp
> The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/
> To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM
> with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.

--
Thibault Sarlat.
ICQ 16622177.
homepage  http://www.mystara.com.bi
Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr
or at
clenarius@hotmail.com

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:57:56 +0200
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
Organization: scarole@tin.it
Subject:      Chronicles of Nentsun- Chapter Two: Warchild (long)
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CHAPTER TWO: WARCHILD

The situation of Nentsun around 130 AC was not very different from that
of the last two centuries. Some cities had fallen, some new had risen,
kings had died, and skirmishes had been fought. But in the northern
lands of the Inner Circle, the Kingdom of Vixen was prosperous and rich.
The aristocratic families of the Inner Circle held the positions of
Masters of the Divine School of the Bear, but with the passing of time,
they had become less and less involved with the religious duties, that
involved actively the worship of Nentsun and Simurgh, and had begun to
ignore the meditations and practices needed to control the engines.
After some time, the radiation problem that had revealed itself in the
previous millennium, manifested itself again. However, one of the
Masters, who was, contrary to the traditions of the school also a cleric
of Simurgh, received a visit from the Immortal. The Roc God told him
that he had already seen two cycles of life destroyed in Nentsun (Great
Rain of Fire, Rakshasa invasion): due to the Masters� incompetence,
another cataclysm was imminent. To avoid this, Simurgh gave the only
true Master, known as Kashang, one of his claws. This is the origin of
the artifact known as �Claw of the Invincible Simurgh�.

The Claw helped the Master in controlling alone the radiations.
Disgusted by the incompetence of the aristocrats, Kashang, Baron of
Wolven, raised an army of Outer Circle mercenaries, and conquered the
Kingdom of Vixen. Paying his mercenaries with lands and titles, Kashang
reunified several kingdoms, and re-organized the engine control,
creating another school of fighting, the Sacred School of Nentsun, to
help the efforts of the Divine School of the Bear. He decided how to
find the new members of the schools, and separated the link between
aristocracy and heads of the schools. He told the population that the
reasons for the prosperity of the land were the dangerous engines, that
he called �Unholy Devices of Blekmur, things who caused the first
destruction of an Empire in Nentsun� (this has caused the wrong belief,
among the Nentsunians, that the Nentsun culture  is directly descending
from �Blekmur�) (135 AC).

For a long time, it seemed that life would go on as it always had. The
Kingdom of Wolven was a new reality that guaranteed stability in the
region. The Wolven family didn�t accept changes to the status quo,
intervening any time a local skirmish threatened the peace in the
region. However, these interventions became, with the passing of time,
more and more oppressive, and the smaller nations begun to fear for
their indipendence. The last straw was the intervention of King Rikyudy
Wolven in the rakastan city of Zeshuita, where a Wolvenian diplomat had
died, appearantly for heart attack. Rikyudy, who hoped to intervene in
the region, where a silver mine had recently been discovered, told the
city to surrender to him, pretending that the diplomat had been killed.
Surprisingly, the city refused: the king of Wolven, enraged, put the
city under siege. After three months of siege, he conquered it and had
all the men and male childs killed, and the women and females were sent
to work in the silver mines. The city was burnt to ashes. Many other
states, enraged by the brutal conclusion of the siege, declared war to
Wolven (374 AC).

Death, war, famine, destruction, all were spread through the land. The
Masters hid, to remain able to control the engines, and assured the
survival of the country, but petty kings, warlords and brigand leaders
fought each other through fourty long years, until a man, who called
himself Warchild (appearantly he was born in 374, in Vixen, the day the
war was declared) was able to stabilize the situation and re-organized
(again!) the situation. This time, kingdoms of the Outer Circle were
involved. Hoping to solve the problem with the creation of bigger
states, he created a sort of theocratic Confederation, forming 12 states
over the entire Nentsun region, and putting an end to the recognition of
two Circles in Nentsun (411 AC).
To lead each kingdom he put the heads of the clerical orders who
worshipped the 12 Immortals of the Nentsunian Pantheon. He proclaimed
himself united war leader of the country, but divided the army in twelve
groups, not directly linked to the territories: a general had control
over divisions spread in more than one kingdom, so  when he was dead, no
general could take his position to try to gain the crown. The Silver
Crown, symbol of the royal power of the Wolven kings, who had been the
leaders of the land in the last centuries, was melted by the clerics of
the Order of Fire (followers of Fire, an aspect of Rathanos). The
Masters of the fighting schools had definitely lost any political power
in this period, and in 453 AC the clerical leaders created a law that
forbid any land owning noble family to have any of their member in the
schools.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:01:10 +0200
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From:         Caroletti <scarole@TIN.IT>
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Subject:      Re: What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and why?
              (History)
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Yazin Delmire ha scritto:

> Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?

I'd say CM3: "Sabre River". It was one of the best modules that I DMed, it
is very easy to use, gives interesting background for Norwold, combines hack'n'
slash dungeons with an interesting plot...this and CM2 are among the best modules

I have read and played!

>
>
>     Also, can someone give me the condensed version of Mystara's history?

You can find it on Shawn's site, the official Mystara site dnd.starflung.com

Iulius Sergius Scaevola
Captain of the XXth Cohort
Port Lucinius, Thyatis

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:09:58 -0400
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From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and
              why?             (History)
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Well, for low level adventures, my all-time favorite is B4, The Lost City...
the pyramid is cool, and some sections, like the tombs in the 4th floor are
a great scare if well DM (the PCs were chased by a spooky band of rotting
corpses, just a wandering encounter with zombies, but a nice description
plays marvels!). The lower levels need lotsa work, but it pays: chances for
political intrigues in the City, fighting Zargon and coming back to Ylaruam
and nobody believing the tale!

For Expert level players, I like best both X11 and X8... X11 is this
beautiful �-la-Tolkien break into an epic quest, a good mix of city
adventure, exciting wilderness and dungeon adventuring, with a big stress on
planning and stealth, as opposed to mindless dungeon-trampling. Also, the
richness of history details makes the feeling deeper... I would just have
loved seeing some War Machine battles with the Shadowlord's forces, but it
can be adapted easily... And X8 is just cool!! exploring the island, solving
all those tomb riddles, the time deadline, angry humanoids in a ceremony and
the traditional rope bridge over a lava flow!!!

Companion-level, I have very few modules, and I don't like most of them,
they have this tons of "a dungeon, but just with huge monsters", even CM1,
which should play more around politics... but I like CM6, the challenges are
more in the line of strategy and finding truly alien enemies than in the
typical "fight this bunch of gargantuan critters".

I seem to lack in my collection the coolest M module, Talons of Night, but i
like Into the Maelstrom (M1), nice maps, cool plane-travelling and a real
feeling of "discovery", when getting in Old Alphatia and looking for
Alphak's abode.

I could pose a reverse question: which is the module(s) which has
disappointed you most??? I mean, after expending lots of time and effort
looking for an OOP, you did not feel it was as good as expected, or it even
did not provide good possibilities for adapting... this happened to me with
M3, Twilight Calling. I looked for it in ebay, had it sent to Spain all the
way from the US by airmail... and it was sososo bland!!! this fairy-tale
like challenges which looked quite random and Oz-like (yes, huge deadly
monsters, but Oz-like) and just two pages for a quickest foray in Carnifex
Castle... I expected more of the alien evil Carnifex, really...

Andr�s

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:00:23 +0000
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I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
(My guess would be 70%-75% humans, and none of the others getting more
than 1%-2%)
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:23:33 +1300
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From:         Chris Furneaux <c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM>
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> Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?
>

I have to vote isle of dread, just because it's a classic and a lot of
modules revolve around an event and specific personalities and a set order
but instead arround a place. X1 did not have these "shortcommings" but
instead the players "pick" their fights and it has everything you could want
for an expert level intro addventure. you got your swampy reptilian covered
wilderness with your pirate bases, cults and weird monsters. Plus you can
play it easily again with different characters and it events can happen
quite differently with minor alterations and/or good DMing.

Chris.


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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:40:31 +0200
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From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
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David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM> wrote:

> It said that they were flying, but not how -- so some could have been
> in skyships.

They teleported their skyships in? WotI book II p.90: "...the 'Thousand =
Wizards' teleport to the skies over Glantri City..."
And if they did, wouldn't Glantri have been able to research their own =
skyships from the wreckage? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that mention =
was made of Glantrian skyships in later products if that was the case?

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:54:54 +0200
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From:         Jacob Skytte <scythe@WANADOO.DK>
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I must say I've always loved DA2: Temple of the Frog. Though it's just a =
dungeon, the two times I've played it, the players have been =
role-playing so memorably. The thing is nobody survives just charging =
the place, so stealth and intrigue, setting the various people of the =
village against each other, and finally facing down the aliens were =
imperative, and great fun.

Among the companion level adventures CM9: Legacy of Blood was great. A =
dominion adventure with some fun events the players have to react to, =
and it can be so easily expanded upon with nice events of your own.

Going to master level, we come to my favorite Mystaran adventure of them =
all; M5: Talons of Night. there's just so much happening here, I love =
the plot! The recurring Spider's Web theme keeps players groaning. The =
settings are so original and wonderful. The pre-rolled characters are =
simply great! And the epilogue, where players take on the roles of =
negotiators for the nations in and around the Isle of Dawn, trying to =
get the best deal for their respective nation is just brilliant. I love =
that adventure module!

As for the worst Mystara module, there's little doubt in my mind. CM4: =
Earthshaker! sucks! Read my review at
http://thing.slashnull.org/review/

Jacob Skytte
scythe@wanadoo.dk

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:22:53 +0100
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From:         jason o'brien <jobo@EIRCOM.NET>
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              (History)
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> Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?
>
i think mine would have to be X10 red arrow,black shield.

my reasons are very simple, i'm in the military here, i love war
games(rarely ever win, but it's the slaughter that counts)
and i love oD&D, so this module combines the two.
granted you could say that other modules have battles and wars in them but
not on this scale, i also like woti for the same reasons,even though most of
the conflict takes place in the background.

mortus.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:17:43 -0700
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From:         Patrick Sullivan <pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans can fit on the head of a pin?
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>I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
>And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
>(My guess would be 70%-75% humans, and none of the others getting more
>than 1%-2%)


I think there are as many different answers to these questions as there are
different versions of Mystara out there.  Remember that in both the HW and
the OW, there are vast tracts of land that have either never been
"officially" described or have only been quickly glossed over.  At any rate,
I would tend to put an upward limit on human beings at around 50%, but I
think it really depends on your own take on Mystara and just who you're
counting as "human" or "sentient" and what you count as Mystara (does
Pandius count?).  You know, with all the aliens, lycanthropes, fair-folk,
undead, shapeshifters, and part-humans (e.g., most of the inhabitants of
Yavdlom), "pure" humans might even be a minority among those that look like
humans :-)

On the other hand, I'd agree with you that at least most other races get
less than 2% of the total.

Patrick

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:26:50 +0000
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From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
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jason o'brien wrote:
>
> > Actually, considered the number of Thyatian dialects (Caurenzan =
> > Italian, Hattian = German), we could be speaking three or four languages
> > at the same time :)
> > --
> wouldn't that indicate that thyatian common is a mix of these dialects that
> it equates to  ....  english,
> a mix of germanic (angle,saxon,jute) and romance (latin and to a degree
> french) as well as a selection of words from other languages.

Most romance languages have a degree of germanic words as well. English
also has a structure of declinations and conjugations which is too
simplified to represent Thyatian, IMHO. I see it as a very structured
language, borrowing many words but few constructions from other
languages.
I see it as basically Latin, with many germanic, celtic, arabian and
especially greek words. It might have other non-latin features, like
dual forms or a locative case, making it more similar to a common
ancestor of the latin and germanic languages than a mix of them.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:41:16 +0000
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From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
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Yazin Delmire wrote:
>
> Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?

B10 Night's Dark Terror: it features a sound adventure, with less hack
'n' slash than many, with a lot of detail given to the culture and
geography of Karameikos, and especially of the nonhumans living there.
It is the necessary complement to the Gaz.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:19:59 +0000
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
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The Glantrian Personnel Division is glad to announce its latest update,
featuring a brand new section on the Masters of the Great School of
Magic, and more glantrian characters and stories!

This update features:
        Ysabel de Fedorias and her Locket of Unwavering Principle
        Masters of the Great School of Magic:
                Bertok Gam, Master of Necromancy
                LaVeron Chonere, Mistress of Illusion
                Inguin di Corenveni, Mistress of Enchantment
                Tobol Vlarostk, Laboratory Administrator
        A short story, "Cornaber's Heir"

The Glantrian Personnel Division Website can be found at:
        http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri
under the care of the Ruling Archduke, Kit Navarro.

Enjoy!
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:09:51 +0000
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Patrick Sullivan wrote:
>
> >I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
> >And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
>
> I think there are as many different answers to these questions as there are
> different versions of Mystara out there.  Remember that in both the HW and
> the OW, there are vast tracts of land that have either never been
> "officially" described or have only been quickly glossed over.

Considering that the HW is rather difficult to evaluate (little
"natural" demographic evolution), starting with the OW would be enough.
Also, better to exclude the underwater regions and the moons.

> You know, with all the aliens, lycanthropes, fair-folk,
> undead, shapeshifters, and part-humans (e.g., most of the inhabitants of
> Yavdlom), "pure" humans might even be a minority among those that look like
> humans :-)

I would consider only self-sustaining groups, not parassites or
symbionts of the human society (like vampires or werewolves).
Also, for the sake of simplicity, "humans" includes half-whatevers and
aliens with human-compatible biology (Alphatians and Blackmoorians).
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:10:42 +0200
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> I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
> And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
> (My guess would be 70%-75% humans, and none of the others getting more
> than 1%-2%)
> --
>
>
>                 Giampaolo Agosta
>
>

Hmm, I will say Dwarves at least have a substanialy larger percentage in the
KW at least. We have Rockhome with a cool million, in an area that has about
10 million people.

I'll resort to canon in order to figure out the numbers in the Known World
at least:
(from PWA2)

Aengmor+City of Stars= 250k (shadow)elves
Atruaghin= 230k, I don't have the gaz, I assume all are human.
Broken Lands (east, west and oakenmar)= 57k I would say mostly orcs and
kobolds, but its a mix of all goblinoids.
Darokin= 1250k humans, it sais "plus a scatering of elves dwarves and
halflings I would add 10k of each. Also I would say "the orclands" have
between 5-10k of orcs and trolls not included in the count.
Ethengar= 330k humans. I don't have the Gaz but I am guessing a few orcs
too?
Five Shires= 220k halflings
Glantri= 780-600k. I would say at least 10% of these are elves (more
Belcadiz then Erewan) So if we may have 600k of humans and 60k of elves to
keep it simple.
Heldannic Territories= 250k . I would guess of this 2k are dwarves and  2k
are elves . Maybe there is a large population of other races not included in
the sensus.
Ierendi= 58k, the Gaz doesn't say but I think it must have a substential
percentage of demihumans.
Karameikos= they made it easy here. 250k humans, 71k elves, 3k dwarves, 5k
gnomes, 2k halflings. humnoids unknown- lets say 10k
Mintothad= not so easy here... out of 135k we have about: 60k humans, 50k
elves, 15k dawrves, 10k halflings (I could not get an exact percentage from
the text that said "mixed" about many of the islands). Can someone who has
the gaz correct me on this?
Northern Reaches: 450k. I guess these are just the humans. I would suggest
also 5k elves, 20k dwarves (Mordiswerg and regular), 2k gnomes, and a
healthy dose of goblinoids, something like 20k (mostly kobolds and gnolls,
but trolls and giants make a significant factor)
Rockhome: 990k dwarves, 10k humans. I would also add 2k of halflings (they
were in the gaz) and 2k of gnomes (according to PC1). There are also lots of
humanoids on the map, something like 5k? (mostly goblins, hobgoblin and
orcs. Some giants and trolls too).
Thyatis mainland: 3000k. Of this about 25k elf, and 20k dwarves included.
Ylaruam: 230k. I would say 220k are human and 10k are dwarves.

So out of a population of 8, 500,000 we have:
humans (76%~)
473,000 elves (5.5%~)
1,070,000 dwarves (12.5%~)
254,000 halflings (4~)
9,000 gnomes (a fraction of a percent)
102,000 goblinoids (1.5%~)

Math was noever my strong side, but I tried...

So, for the KW we have a bit more than 70-75% humans (which is totally
understandable) but we also have a very high concetration of dwarves.
Now, we do not hace information on the other races that are supposed to have
a substential representation at the KW. What about Lupins and Rakasta? I
would say that in a countries given census these races are not counted. But
how many are there?
And what about centaurs?
I think that the poulations of fairys and other "spirits of nature" are less
importent as they don't have an impact pn the ecology (not a negative one at
least). I would group those with undead as "not people"... they are sentient
but are not "societies of sentient beings" as such.
Another related thing. How many dragons are in the KW? Are the dragons
mentioned in Dragon Magazin the rulers of dragon nations or are they the
only dragons in the region? Ho many dragons are found in the Wyrmteeth
mountains?

Morphail

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:38:28 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards

>> No, but I am saying that the failure of magic would create public order problems that might limit the number of Glantrian troops availabe to hunt for fugitive Alphatian wizards. <<

Well, the first "public order problem" would be the number of angered, vengeful Glantrians chasing down any fugitive Alphatian Wizard they can find.

Hmmmmn. . .I actually think the troops would help with that, myself. But you might think they'd try to stop it, and thus be unavailable to do that, I gather.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:53:52 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Yazin Delmire <M76762@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Modules (Most disappointing)
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In a message dated 10/21/00 5:23:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES writes:

Oh man, this would have to be B1 "Search for the Unknown."  This isn't such a
bad module, but the main problem is that it is not complete.  The rooms are
described and left empty of monsters, so the DM has to create his OWN
dungeon.  What's up with that?
    The art is really good (some of that early art which is classic now) too,
so more's the pity.  Its also a nicely designed dungeon, but the lack of
things in it is a real downer.  If you pay for a complete mod, you want a
complete mod.

    Incidentally, the second most disappointing was the original "Palace of
the Silver Princess" the Orange copy that was recalled after only one day.
Its available for free download from the WOTC site.  It has the same problems
as B1, with rooms detailed but nothing stocked him them.  Oh and all that
forbidden art that was rumored to be in poor taste?  I was not impressed.
Please note that I am not talking about the green cover copy of this module.
Its is an excellent mod!  The recall was a good thing!
                                                    Y

<< I could pose a reverse question: which is the module(s) which has
 disappointed you most??? I mean, after expending lots of time and effort
 looking for an OOP, you did not feel it was as good as expected, or it even
 did not provide good possibilities for adapting... this happened to me with
 M3, Twilight Calling. I looked for it in ebay, had it sent to Spain all the
 way from the US by airmail... and it was sososo bland!!! this fairy-tale
 like challenges which looked quite random and Oz-like (yes, huge deadly
 monsters, but Oz-like) and just two pages for a quickest foray in Carnifex
 Castle... I expected more of the alien evil Carnifex, really... >>

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:55:12 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM
In-Reply-To:  <Springmail.105.972064922.0.68838800@www.springmail.com>
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At 02:02 PM 10/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I have to say that seems to work as a good theory, with the stuff that one
might >quibble about (I.E. the extent to which Immortal magic works during
the Week >Without Magic) at least explaining some of the things (for
instance, Palatarkan >saving Floating Ar; since the floating islands were
originally enchanted with >Mortal level magic, before he became Immortal,
one might think they'd crash during >the Day of Dread, but this would
explain why that doesn't happen - at the time he >saved them/restored them,
he did so with his Immortal magic, and thus the islands >are not affected
by the lack of Mortal magic on the Day of Dread, so that would >explain why
they keep flying on the 28th of Kaldmont each year).

Of course, Palartarkan could have kept on tinkering with the islands even
after becoming an Immortal- perhaps augmenting the original effects and
making them more durable with his Immortal magicks- such that they don't
fall simply due to the fact that he "fixed" them many years or centuries
before the WWM ever came about.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:58:59 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      How many Mystarans can fit on the head of a pin?

> >I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
>
Pre or Post Wrath?
I'll do Pre-Wrath I guess:

Known Areas of the HW: about 24 million
(includes all Icrian countries known, and Shajapur, plus Sellohmar, and some rounding error.)
Knowh Areas of the surface: about 30 million
(includes Known World, Alphatian Empire, Minean, Northern Davania, Yavdlom, Hule, and a rough guess for the Savage Coast. Also some fan created countries in Western Brun, and some rounding error).

Based on that?
Rough guess of the total for the HW: say 30 million overall.
Rough guess for the surface of Mystara?
Much harder to do (Are there some densely populated countries, like an M-China? If so, how dense and how large? If most of the rest is like northern Davania or Alphatia or Hule in population density, that's different than if most of the rest is like the KW in population density).

Want to say about 120 million, perhaps?

That'd give a total for all of Mystara of about 150 million, which seems really low, but lots of even "civilized" areas on Mystara have really low population densities.

Lets bump that up, though, and say 200 million.


> >And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
>

Humans: 65-70%
Demi-Humans: 15%
Humanoids: 10%
"Other": 5-10%

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:05:24 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and why?
              (History)
In-Reply-To:  <39F180DC.3DF899BD@libero.it>
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At 10:41 AM 10/21/00 +0000, you wrote:
>
>B10 Night's Dark Terror: it features a sound adventure, with less hack
>'n' slash than many, with a lot of detail given to the culture and
>geography of Karameikos, and especially of the nonhumans living there.
>It is the necessary complement to the Gaz.

Heck- half of the stuff in the Gaz was directly inspired by B10 (it was
written prior to Allston's Gaz).

I'd have to agree that it is one of the best modules there is- an entire
campaign in and of itself (for levels 1-4). Don't get that too many other
places.

My personal all time favorite, though, has to go to X3: The Curse of
Xanathon. It's the first module I ever played in, and one of the first
experiences I ever had with roleplaying. Ah, when I think back on memories
of skulking through the ducal barracks... *sigh* Where has my youth gone? ;)

It was also quite different from most other modules then and since- a real
mystery/whodunit type of thing. Sure, it can be played hack 'n slash, but
the real treat comes in going the other way, and making the players really
try and investigate and put clues together. I'd be tempted to say that
David Cook's B6: The Veiled Society was inspired in part by X3, and in some
ways the material of B6 is more absorbing (a mafia-like organization,
several different factions, all with their own interests) but X3 does a
much better job of organizing and implementing the techniques of mystery
roleplaying.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:16:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Andrew Theisen <jsmill@WANS.NET>
Subject:      [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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For those of you who've purchased your Monster Manuals by now, what do you
think of the Templates in the back?

Myself, I'm not terribly impressed by them. They're okay, I guess (and I
can see some definite advantages to them), but mostly I think they're
overpowered. In particular the Vampire and Lycanthrope templates. Some of
the abilities just seem too unbalancing- why does a vampire get a +2 to
Intelligence just for becoming a vampire? (Maybe I watch too much Buffy,
but I think there are probably some pretty dumb vamps out there...).

As far as Lycanthropes, I think (again) they are too powerful, not to
mention they just don't quite have the flavor of the PC4 lycanthropes. I
guess my main complaint is that templates work fine as "beefing up" NPCs,
but they don't seem to work too well when applied to PCs... which is maybe
the point. I dunno.

Anyway, I've started working on the Prestige Class to beat all Prestige
Classes- the lycanthrope Prestige Class, and I'll be wanting some feedback
on that soon.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:25:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      What does everyone think of templates?
In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.20001021091603.007f87d0@pop.wans.net>
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At 09:16 10/21/00 -0700, Andrew Theisen wrote:
>For those of you who've purchased your Monster Manuals by now, what do you
>think of the Templates in the back?

        I like them, in idea if nothing else. (I'm still working my way through
the DMG, so I haven't given the MM serious study.) I'm disappointed that
there's not a Dire Animal template, or an Elemental template or anything.

>Myself, I'm not terribly impressed by them. They're okay, I guess (and I
>can see some definite advantages to them), but mostly I think they're
>overpowered. In particular the Vampire and Lycanthrope templates. Some of
>the abilities just seem too unbalancing- why does a vampire get a +2 to
>Intelligence just for becoming a vampire? (Maybe I watch too much Buffy,
>but I think there are probably some pretty dumb vamps out there...).

        You watch too much BtVS! 'sides, most of them are in the 3E MM, as well,
under Vampire Spawn. (Why does it get a seperate entry? Dunno.)

>As far as Lycanthropes, I think (again) they are too powerful, not to
>mention they just don't quite have the flavor of the PC4 lycanthropes.

        How so?

>Anyway, I've started working on the Prestige Class to beat all Prestige
>Classes- the lycanthrope Prestige Class, and I'll be wanting some feedback
>on that soon.

        I've got an important lycanthrope NPC I've been waiting to apply stats to,
and I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:55:46 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 6:09:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes:

> I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
>  And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
>  (My guess would be 70%-75% humans, and none of the others getting more
>  than 1%-2%)

I suspect that an even greater percentage is Human (perhaps 90%).  The
next most prevalent races would probably be Orcs followed by Rakasta
(who have an entire moon to themselves and have probably colonized
remote parts of Mystara many times) and then Dwarves (for whom that
huge population in Rockhome actually makes a difference).  The other
races would seem to exist in far smaller numbers outside of the regions
where they are already known to live.

In particular, Gnomes are a very small minority concentrated mainly
in Karameikos, Serraine, and Oostdok.  The number of Gnomes in
the Northern Reaches is exactly zero, and the number found in
Rockhome is small enough that they do not make up even 1% of
any community -- so there would be no more than 500 or so of
them in Dengar, for example.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:55:54 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 7:14:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
scythe@WANADOO.DK writes:

> David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM> wrote:
>
>  > It said that they were flying, but not how -- so some could have been
>  > in skyships.
>
>  They teleported their skyships in? WotI book II p.90: "...the 'Thousand
> Wizards' teleport to the skies over Glantri City..."
>  And if they did, wouldn't Glantri have been able to research their own
> skyships from the wreckage? Wouldn't it be safe to assume that mention was
> made of Glantrian skyships in later products if that was the case?

There is another point that you just brought to my attention that I had
overlooked -- the whole idea of teleporting into the sky is an idea that
was introduced as an Alphatian method for dealing with the danger of
arriving below the destination within solid rock, despite the fact that
such a maneuver was not strictly legal in the D&D RC or in 2E.
Haldemar in fact used the exact same trick at one point in the
"Princess Ark" series.

That would mean that we really don't need to picture those Alphatian
wizards flying in the skies over Glantri City -- a far saner thing to do
would have been to land after teleporting and then attack the city from
the ground, where they would not have to worry about all the nasty things
that the Glantrian wizards defending the city could do to make them
go splat even before the magic failed.

Also, it would be very easy to introduce that trick to the 3E description
of the Teleport spell:  The first mishap damage roll can be avoided if
you teleport into an area at least 200 feet above the ground.  It is up
to you to come up with a way (such as a Fly spell cast before Teleport)
to prevent the massive falling damage that would otherwise result.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:55:56 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Thyatian language (was Day of Dread)
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 8:55:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes:

> I see it as basically Latin, with many germanic, celtic, arabian and
>  especially greek words. It might have other non-latin features, like
>  dual forms or a locative case, making it more similar to a common
>  ancestor of the latin and germanic languages than a mix of them.

That would make it the hypothetical proto-Indo-European language
that is believed to be the ancestor of most European languages --
but that language seems to have more in common with Sanskrit
and other languages of India and Pakistan than it does with any
modern language.

Maybe Thyatian should be represented by modern Romanian?
This is a serious suggestion -- that language seems to have the
right relationship to other Romance and Indo-European languages
to match the apparent origins and relationships of Thyatian to
other Mystaran languages.

By that hypothesis, the Neathar spoke a language that could be
represented by proto-Indo-European.  The Traldar language would
then resemble ancient Greek, with the Milenian language evolved
enough from it to impair but not completely prevent mutual
understanding.  At some point the natives of the City States
(whose language is represented from within the Slavic family)
spread their language eastward to Karameikos and from there
to Boldavia in Glantri.

The three tribes of Thyatians, Kerendans, and Hattians originally
had separate languages, as represented by their differences in
name styles.  The Hattians spoke an Antalian derived language,
the Thyatians spoke Milenian, and the Kerendans spoke a language
that could be represented by the Vulgar Latin from just after the
fall of Rome.  By the time of their migration to Brun, the Kerendan
language had evolved to the point that it could be represented by
modern Italian.  Meanwhile, the Thyatians and Hattians had adopted
the Kerendan language as their own and began mangling it horribly
with added vocabulary from their own language as well as Traladaran,
Alphatian, and any other language they happened to hear.  The
resulting hodgepodge developed into modern Thyatian or "Common".

Thus, modern Thyatian could be represented by Romanian (which I
understand to be a Romance or Latin-derived language with a
substantial Slavic vocabulary) with foreign vocabulary added to
the same uncontrolled extent as has occurred with modern English.

How does all that seem to fit?

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:56:02 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Dragon Mags
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In a message dated 2000-10-17 2:01:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SundanceIII@EXCITE.COM writes:

> I recently discovered that I am missing one installment of Voyage of the
>  Princess Ark.  Any recommendations on places to purchase Dragon back issues
>  online?

If you can't find the magazine itself, you could always order that 250 issue
Dragon magazine CD-ROM set.  I saw an ad for it in the very latest Dragon
magazine, so Wizards evidently still has some of them for sale.  Since
TSR discontinued the Mystara setting so long ago, everything that was
ever written about Mystara in Dragon magazine is in that archive.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:06:55 CDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         "Byron D. Molix" <lockheart1930@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E spells (was: DoD/Fate of a thousand wizards)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I find it very difficult to swallow that an old hand gamer would dislike 3e
mostly based on terminology and explanations.  The game works 90% like it
always did in the things that matter to most people.  For instance, wizards
still select and use spells in almost exactly the same way as before (which
without the inclusion of the Sorcerer would have driven a dissatisfied gamer
such as myself up the wall).

So the description of wizards doesn't match elves? Why should it?  Elven
wizards would undoubtably have their own description if it were to become
important.  You can't make a description of "Soldier" that matches every
nation's armed forces during the height of the Roman Empire. (Celts would be
Chaotic, Romans would be Lawful, the Western European tribes would likely
run the gamut.) Why arbitrarily limit an equally broad descriptor in a
fantasy game?

As for Concentration, it seems to be the ability to ignore physical
impairment. Every single DC example is being grappled, damaged, tossed about
by exterior forces, or engaging in strenuous physical activity.  It's a
tossup as to whether willpower is better than stamina in this case.
Although I'll tell you that no matter how angry I get, I can't yell at
someone if I'm winded and panting.

3e isn't perfect, but no game is, especially 1st Edition.  If I can resist
making spellcasters roll to cast spells and totally removing that 'spells
per day' mechanic in favor of playing the game as written, it means that it
isn't a horribly broken engine.

Besides, this entire issue was originally a Mystara specific issue, not a 2e
or 3e one.  It doesn't matter whether spells are prepared or memorized, or
whether it takes one hour to prepare spells or 'X minutes per level' to
memorize them.  If the DoD says you lose any spells you attempt to cast, you
lose them.  If you just can't cast them, but you retain the ability when
magic returns, then you retain the ability when magic returns.  It's as
simple as 'What does the Week Without Magic or the Day of Dread mean?'

I'm getting the impression is you lose the spells you attempt to cast, but
there is still much confusion on that simple point.  I'm tempted to say that
in my campaign, if magic isn't abroad in the world you can't activate any
magic (ie you can't initiate any action that would result in a magical
effect happening, so the mages and clerics would keep their spells, items
keep their charges, etc)

Byron

As an aside, Dragon magazine is terrible about not supporting games that are
not currently in print. As far as I can remember, 1st edition support
vanished as soon as 2e was the slightest bit established. OD&D didn't vanish
until now because it was in print until this year (that Classic D&D game
box), but I still haven't seen an article for over 5 years.
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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:16:29 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Gnomes (was How many Mystarans exist?)
In-Reply-To:  <bc.be24f2c.27232492@aol.com>
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At 12:55 10/21/00 EDT, David Knott wrote:

>In particular, Gnomes are a very small minority concentrated mainly
>in Karameikos, Serraine, and Oostdok.  The number of Gnomes in
>the Northern Reaches is exactly zero, and the number found in
>Rockhome is small enough that they do not make up even 1% of
>any community -- so there would be no more than 500 or so of
>them in Dengar, for example.

        "Oostdok?"
        There's a village of them in Ylaruam, IIRC.
        For 3E, I've so far got two subraces of gnomes IMC, the Highforge gnomes
and skygnomes. Each has different languages available, prestige classes and
preferred classes.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:15:44 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote:

> overpowered. In particular the Vampire and Lycanthrope templates. Some of

I am disgusted by the bonuses that werebeasts get.

Weretigers get +12 to strength while werewolves get +2?

Werebears also get obscene strength bonuses.

But, wildly enough, no creature gets a penalty! I remember in PC4,
Weretigers get a +2 strength bonus, but they also lose 2 points of wisdom!

There is no balance in the templates at all! Weretigers are not all that
much stronger than werewolves at all! Period! End of Story.



Ethan

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:42:05 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
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In a message dated 2000-10-16 1:37:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

> >The only question is: is there anything in these products (WotI, PWAs, etc)
>  >that would benefit me?
>
>          Lots of cultural details, interesting events that happen on
different
>  dates that you can drop into your campaign to add the feeling of it being a
>  living, breathing world, et cetera. Nothing earth shattering, but nice,
IMO.

You might want to leave WotI out of that generalization -- some of the
changes it introduced were earth shattering in the literal sense -- or at
least earth cracking or earth blasting.  ;)

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:42:02 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: What does everyone think of templates?
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 12:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lby3@LBY3.COM writes:

>         I like them, in idea if nothing else. (I'm still working my way
> through the DMG, so I haven't given the MM serious study.) I'm disappointed
> that there's not a Dire Animal template, or an Elemental template or
anything.

I guess they gave so many examples of Dire Animals because of the
summoning spells that call them -- but it still would have been useful
to provide the template they used to create them so as to simplify the
process of devising other dire/giant animals.

As for the Elemental templates -- I suspect that every plane that differs
significantly from the Prime should have its own such template.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:42:07 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 3E:  Undead Glantrian Princes
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In a message dated 2000-10-16 1:15:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI writes:

> I wasn't aware that undead didn't have Con scores in 3e. It seems rather
>  odd that they don't, though - Con may not represent their physical
>  health (they are dead), but it can still represent their resilience and
>  body structure. Plus, they need something to give them hit point bonuses
>  per hit die, and affect Con-related skills.

They get d12 for HD (regardless of actual class) and use Cha to
modify Concentration rolls.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:42:01 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 12:21:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jsmill@WANS.NET writes:

> As far as Lycanthropes, I think (again) they are too powerful, not to
>  mention they just don't quite have the flavor of the PC4 lycanthropes. I
>  guess my main complaint is that templates work fine as "beefing up" NPCs,
>  but they don't seem to work too well when applied to PCs... which is maybe
>  the point. I dunno.
>
>  Anyway, I've started working on the Prestige Class to beat all Prestige
>  Classes- the lycanthrope Prestige Class, and I'll be wanting some feedback
>  on that soon.

I think that new "Control Shape" skill was meant to cover the basic things
that a low level lycanthrope would learn in PC 4.  I could easily see that
the best way to handle the higher level abilities might very well be through
a prestige class whose requirements would include lycanthropy of a certain
type as well as a certain number of ranks in the Control Shape skill.

Overall the templates do seem to be a good idea -- prior to 3E there
was no official way to compare undead characters with their living
counterparts or work out what abilities a character would have if he
were suddenly made into an undead.  I might quibble with some of
the details of particular templates, but the overall approach seems to
be sound.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:42:04 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [fluff] The battle for Sayr Ulan
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In a message dated 2000-10-17 12:38:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
knight@UCC.GU.UWA.EDU.AU writes:

> On Mon, Oct 16, 2000 at 11:46:59PM -0400, Larry Lamb wrote:
>  > Um, im not sure but are attachments alowed on this list? I ask cous it's
not
>  > on the FR list.
>
>  According to the list information, no. You will note it's not an
attachment :
> )

On the other hand, some AOL subscribers may have mistaken it for
an attachment, as AOL converts all messages above a certain length
to text file attachments.  However, when it does so a short message
is added indicating that this has been done -- and I think I recall seeing
such a notice with the original "Sayr Ulan" message.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:55:51 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 2:35:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU writes:

> I am disgusted by the bonuses that werebeasts get.
>
>  Weretigers get +12 to strength while werewolves get +2?
>
>  Werebears also get obscene strength bonuses.
>
>  But, wildly enough, no creature gets a penalty! I remember in PC4,
>  Weretigers get a +2 strength bonus, but they also lose 2 points of wisdom!
>
>  There is no balance in the templates at all! Weretigers are not all that
>  much stronger than werewolves at all! Period! End of Story.

The bonuses are tied to the sizes and strengths of the base animal
type.  Wolves are Medium creatures, while tigers are Large creatures
-- and Large creatures are substantially stronger than Medium creatures.
That is the root source of the imbalance.

Another problem is that the size of the infected humanoid is not taken
into account as it would need to be to apply proper penalties.  That
Gnome Weretiger becomes rather implausible if you accept that a
Small Gnome transforms into a Large Tiger -- surely the wereform
should be about the size of a tiger cub to reflect the smaller humanoid
form.

So I would agree -- the lycanthrope template needs more work.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:58:49 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Traladaran coins
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        What were the gold pieces of Traladara called before Thyatis took the
place over? Did they mint coinage?

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:22:39 EDT
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         David Knott <Kaviyd@AOL.COM>
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In a message dated 2000-10-21 3:09:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lby3@LBY3.COM
writes:

>         What were the gold pieces of Traladara called before Thyatis took
the
>  place over? Did they mint coinage?

Since the coin names differ from those of Thyatis and (for the silver and
copper coins at least) have Slavic sounding names, my guess is that
the names or appearances of the coins when he took over.  My guess
is that the coins of Karameikos are only slightly changed from those of
the City State of Marlinev, with the name of the "nation" changed and
the inscriptions translated from Traladaran to Thyatian.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:24:59 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= <anpro@ACCESOCERO.ES>
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM
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I always wondered why the Floating Islands did not fall during the WWM,
where even Immortal magic failed. Well, I think it could be dealt with as
the dome of Aquas: when the Islands were created, maybe Palatarkan devised a
spell in the lines of "Wall of Gravity" to create a gravity plane for the
floating islands. Permanent creations from spells are non-magical (and, as
far as CoM presents it, gravity is a natural, non magical force in Mystara,
although it can be tampered with by magic); the Dome of Aquas did not give
way, the gravity plane of the islands did not either, as your common wall of
stone does not even if it's dispelled or comes into anti-magic. Why don't
Alphatians use that spell???? well, I guess that Palatarkan researched it as
part of his quest of the Paragon, and so it's supposed to be secret and
unique, but researching it could make a real long and interesting adventure
for aerial mages and skygnomes...

Andr�s

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:28:25 IST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Eyal Fleminger <eyal_fleminger@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fate of the Thousand Wizards
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A lot of "household" magic is used in Glantri, especially Glantri City. With
the failure of magic, there would likely be widespread panic in the city. I
assume this is the public order problem mentioned.

>Well, the first "public order problem" would be the number of angered,
>vengeful Glantrians chasing down any fugitive Alphatian Wizard they can
>find.
>
>Hmmmmn. . .I actually think the troops would help with that, myself. But
>you might think they'd try to stop it, and thus be unavailable to do that,
>I gather.
>

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:41:25 IST
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Eyal Fleminger <eyal_fleminger@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: NoS draining Entropy
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Is there any source stating that the magic drain is reversed rather than
just stopped? GAZ3 states that if the NoS is not used, the magic drain level
remains static, not reducing. Therefore, I think th NoS should start
draining Entropy, but without releasing the accumalated magic already in it.
>I think that the reversal of the drain was meant to introduce new and
>subtle
>problems for Mystara after a lengthy delay during which conditions are
>reasonably tolerable.  I figured that the "Rad drain level" would simply
>start going down rather than up with further use of the Radiance.
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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:56:30 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Thyatian language (was Day of Dread)
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David Knott wrote:
>
> > I see it as basically Latin, with many germanic, celtic, arabian and
> >  especially greek words. It might have other non-latin features, like
> >  dual forms or a locative case, making it more similar to a common
> >  ancestor of the latin and germanic languages than a mix of them.
>
> That would make it the hypothetical proto-Indo-European language
> that is believed to be the ancestor of most European languages --
> but that language seems to have more in common with Sanskrit
> and other languages of India and Pakistan than it does with any
> modern language.

Well, I would not make it *that* different from Latin...

[..]
> By that hypothesis, the Neathar spoke a language that could be
> represented by proto-Indo-European.  The Traldar language would
> then resemble ancient Greek, with the Milenian language evolved
> enough from it to impair but not completely prevent mutual
> understanding.

What about

Traldar -> Homeric greek, with some Nithian influences

Milenian -> Attic greek, evolving towards hellenistic Koine

>  At some point the natives of the City States
> (whose language is represented from within the Slavic family)
> spread their language eastward to Karameikos and from there
> to Boldavia in Glantri.

Actually, they started from Karameikos, spreading their language to the
Savage Coast.

[..]
> Thus, modern Thyatian could be represented by Romanian (which I
> understand to be a Romance or Latin-derived language with a
> substantial Slavic vocabulary) with foreign vocabulary added to
> the same uncontrolled extent as has occurred with modern English.

I'd say there is an excess of Slavic sound (Romanian is a Romance
language, but it "looks" Slavic).
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:57:49 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Gnomes (was How many Mystarans exist?)
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Beau Yarbrough wrote:
>
> At 12:55 10/21/00 EDT, David Knott wrote:
>
> >In particular, Gnomes are a very small minority concentrated mainly
> >in Karameikos, Serraine, and Oostdok.  The number of Gnomes in
> >the Northern Reaches is exactly zero, and the number found in
> >Rockhome is small enough that they do not make up even 1% of
> >any community -- so there would be no more than 500 or so of
> >them in Dengar, for example.
>
>         "Oostdok?"

That's in the HW.

>         There's a village of them in Ylaruam, IIRC.

Unless you are referring to the gnomes in B4 (Cynidicea), I don't know
any other gnomes in Ylaruam.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:08:31 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans can fit on the head of a pin?
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Evil Genius wrote:
>
> > >I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
> >
> Pre or Post Wrath?
> I'll do Pre-Wrath I guess:

Yes, pre-Wrath is a stabilized situation.

> Known Areas of the HW: about 24 million
> (includes all Icrian countries known, and Shajapur, plus Sellohmar, and some rounding error.)
> Knowh Areas of the surface: about 30 million
> (includes Known World, Alphatian Empire, Minean, Northern Davania, Yavdlom, Hule, and a rough guess for the Savage Coast. Also some fan created countries in Western Brun, and some rounding error).
>
> Based on that?
> Rough guess of the total for the HW: say 30 million overall.
> Rough guess for the surface of Mystara?
> Much harder to do (Are there some densely populated countries, like an M-China? If so, how dense and how large? If most of the rest is like northern Davania or Alphatia or Hule in population density, that's different than if most of the rest is like the KW in population density).

Personally, I don't think there are many large (human) empires on
south-western Davania or Skothar. Northern Brun seems to be ocupied by
sprse barbarian and goblinoid tribes.

> Want to say about 120 million, perhaps?
>
> That'd give a total for all of Mystara of about 150 million, which seems really low, but lots of even "civilized" areas on Mystara have really low population densities.

Considered the population of the Known World/Alphatia/Savage Coast areas
(which are supposed to be the "civilized" world), I'd settle for 60
millions, or 90 at most.

> Lets bump that up, though, and say 200 million.

This supposes the presence of very large empires on eastern Skothar.

> > >And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
>
> Humans: 65-70%
> Demi-Humans: 15%
> Humanoids: 10%
> "Other": 5-10%

What do you include in "demi-humans"?
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:15:34 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?
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David Knott wrote:
>
> I suspect that an even greater percentage is Human (perhaps 90%).

Why? On Davania, humans are not prevalent, and Rakasta seem pretty
common on Skothar, too. The average "non-colonized" area might be like
the Orc's Head in the Savage Coast.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:04:46 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
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Shaham Ilan wrote:
>
> > I mean, what is the total population of Mystara?
> > And how does it divide among the many sentient races?
> > (My guess would be 70%-75% humans, and none of the others getting more
> > than 1%-2%)
>
> Hmm, I will say Dwarves at least have a substanialy larger percentage in the
> KW at least. We have Rockhome with a cool million, in an area that has about
> 10 million people.

But the percentage decreases dramatically outside the Known World.

> Ierendi= 58k, the Gaz doesn't say but I think it must have a substential
> percentage of demihumans.

Yes, at least considering the fact that many hins were exiled there, and
that there are many elves and half-elves.

> So out of a population of 8, 500,000 we have:
> humans (76%~)
> 473,000 elves (5.5%~)
> 1,070,000 dwarves (12.5%~)
> 254,000 halflings (4~)
> 9,000 gnomes (a fraction of a percent)
> 102,000 goblinoids (1.5%~)

Ok. Adding the regions outside the Known World, I'd say that at most we
get 1M elves, 1.5M dwarves and 0.5M hins, plus 50k gnomes.
If we assume even a total of 60M humans, we get less than 2% elves, and
less than 3% dwarves. Hins stay at less than 1%, and gnomes appear as a
near extinct race (which they are, there are probably more gnomes in the
HW than in the OW).

> So, for the KW we have a bit more than 70-75% humans (which is totally
> understandable) but we also have a very high concetration of dwarves.
> Now, we do not hace information on the other races that are supposed to have
> a substential representation at the KW. What about Lupins and Rakasta? I
> would say that in a countries given census these races are not counted. But
> how many are there?

Rakasta: not much common in the Known World, with the exception of
Ochalea, were they might range at about 5% of total population, but
occupying a large territory. Lupins are fairly common everywhere in the
Known World, rating at 2-3% in Glantri, more in Heldann, Thyatis and
Ostland, but less everywhere else. They are very common in Ochalea (my
guess: up to 20-25% of the population, common enough to be represented
in the government and army).

> And what about centaurs?

Few in the Known World. Perhaps a small number in Alfheim or Vyalia.

> I think that the poulations of fairys and other "spirits of nature" are less
> importent as they don't have an impact pn the ecology (not a negative one at
> least). I would group those with undead as "not people"... they are sentient
> but are not "societies of sentient beings" as such.
> Another related thing. How many dragons are in the KW? Are the dragons
> mentioned in Dragon Magazin the rulers of dragon nations or are they the
> only dragons in the region?

They are the rulers. However, there aren't many more dragons in the
Known World, though many may live in the bordering wilderness.

> Ho many dragons are found in the Wyrmteeth
> mountains?

According to CM1, the Wyrmsteeth house 1000+ dragons. They do not form a
sizeable enough population to be shown in a census, as I would guess
there are less than 15.000 dragons in the outer world.

Here is my guess, based mostly on the following (arbitrary) assumptions:
1) this computes only the pre-wrath population on the OW, excluding
creatures living underwater.
2) there are few humans outside the described areas. Especially, there
are few humans on Davania other than those in the Milenian city states.
3) The Known World/Alphatia/Hule is the region with higher population
density of Mystara.

Humans         40.000.000       (Incl. Alphatians & other aliens, and
                                 Half-elves & other crossbreeds)
=========================
Dwarves         1.300.000
Rakasta         1.300.000
Lupins            800.000
Shadow Elves      500.000
Elves             600.000
Halflings         300.000
Aranea            250.000
Gnomes             50.000
-------------------------
TOTAL Near-H.s  5.000.000
=========================
Orcs            1.500.000       (Incl. Ogres & Trolls)
Goblins         2.000.000       (Incl. Hobgoblins, Thouls & Bugbears)
Gnolls & Kobolds  700.000
-------------------------
TOTAL 'Noids    4.200.000
=========================
Lizard-Kin        800.000       (Krolli, Shazak, Malpheggi, Cayma,
                                 Gurrash, Ssurrik & others)
Weirds         10.000.000       (Gyerians, Tortles, Wallara,
                                 Emerondians, Ndjatwa, Nagpas, Enduks,
                                 Phanatons, Shapechangers, Faenare
                                 Manscorpions, Minotaurs, Wee Folk
                                 Geonids, Giants & others)
=========================
TOTAL         ~60.000.000

Here, humans are 66% of the total, with a non-human population. I doubt
there are many more non-humans, though humans' numbers might be
reasonably boosted, raising them from 66% to 70-75%.

If we included the Hollow World, the number of humans, lizard kin and
elves would be considerably higher.

If we considered the invisible moon, the Rakasta would be by far the
second most numerous race of Mystara.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:15:26 +0000
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Agathokles <agathokles@LIBERO.IT>
Subject:      Re: Traladaran coins
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Beau Yarbrough wrote:
>
>         What were the gold pieces of Traladara called before Thyatis took the
> place over?

Perhaps they used names like those used by the City-States. I'd suggest
to keep Kopek for the copper coins, and use Korun and Halav for silver
and gold. Not that too many gold pieces were minted, anyway.

> Did they mint coinage?

I suppose so, though on an town or even family base. I think the
Marilenevs did mint coins, and so probably did the rulers of Halag too.
The Radu and the Torenescu might have had personal coins, if the ruling
families allowed them.
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:03:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Patrick Sullivan <pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?
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Let me preface this by saying that this is obviously a question with no real
answer, and we're playing with VERY fuzzy numbers :-)

>> Hmm, I will say Dwarves at least have a substanialy larger percentage in
the
>> KW at least. We have Rockhome with a cool million, in an area that has
about
>> 10 million people.
>But the percentage decreases dramatically outside the Known World.


Why do you say that?  Sure they're not quite as plentiful in the Western
lands (a few in the Savage Baronies, a handful of beleaguered tribes in the
Black Mountains, some in the City-States) or Alphatia (definitely a minority
here), but they're definitely not nonexistent in any large area that has
been described by TSR, unless I'm missing something.  I don't have the old
Master's map with me, but didn't it list a huge dwarven empire somewhere on
Skothar or Davania?  Even if (as later products suggest) that map was very
inaccurate, it at least implies a sizable dwarven population outside the KW.

>> Ierendi= 58k, the Gaz doesn't say but I think it must have a substential
>> percentage of demihumans.


Here I'd tend to disagree a bit: given the descriptions of all the Ierendi
Islands, I'd guess that the human population is slightly higher while the
demihuman pops are a bit lower.  Goblinoid pops may be slightly higher, with
Safari Island and the Honor Island slaves.

>Yes, at least considering the fact that many hins were exiled there, and
>that there are many elves and half-elves.


Many elves and half-elves?  It's been a while since I read GAZ4, but I don't
remember that at all.  Are you thinking of a specific citation?  As far as
halflings, I'd guess that most of them have moved on to Minrothad or the
Shires, but I don't really know.

>> So out of a population of 8, 500,000 we have:
>> humans (76%~)
>> 473,000 elves (5.5%~)
>> 1,070,000 dwarves (12.5%~)
>> 254,000 halflings (4~)
>> 9,000 gnomes (a fraction of a percent)
>> 102,000 goblinoids (1.5%~)



>Ok. Adding the regions outside the Known World, I'd say that at most we
>get 1M elves, 1.5M dwarves and 0.5M hins, plus 50k gnomes.
>If we assume even a total of 60M humans, we get less than 2% elves, and
>less than 3% dwarves. Hins stay at less than 1%, and gnomes appear as a
>near extinct race (which they are, there are probably more gnomes in the
>HW than in the OW).




>> So, for the KW we have a bit more than 70-75% humans (which is totally
>> understandable) but we also have a very high concetration of dwarves.
>> Now, we do not hace information on the other races that are supposed to
have
>> a substential representation at the KW. What about Lupins and Rakasta? I
>> would say that in a countries given census these races are not counted.
But
>> how many are there?
>
>Rakasta: not much common in the Known World, with the exception of
>Ochalea, were they might range at about 5% of total population, but
>occupying a large territory. Lupins are fairly common everywhere in the
>Known World, rating at 2-3% in Glantri, more in Heldann, Thyatis and
>Ostland, but less everywhere else. They are very common in Ochalea (my
>guess: up to 20-25% of the population, common enough to be represented
>in the government and army).
>
>> And what about centaurs?
>
>Few in the Known World. Perhaps a small number in Alfheim or Vyalia.

I think there were mentions of a few in Karameikos, although I can't really
think of them specifically.  They seem to have a slightly higher population
in the West (various tribes in the Yavdlom hinterlands and Black Mountains,
perhaps sizable populations in Hule or beyond).

>Here is my guess, based mostly on the following (arbitrary) assumptions:

<I snipped the assumptions and numbers so this wouldn't be too long, but
they are very well-done>


While I agree that the KW may well be the most densely-settled area of
Mystara, I tend to think that including Hule, The Great Waste, The Serpent
Peninsula, The Isle of Dawn, and Alphatia in this description is slanting
your numbers too much toward humans.  If you want to include all those
areas, than I'd say that, since that makes up roughly 30% of Mystara's land
area, it should represent no more than a third of the total population.
Someone posted a described-world figure of 30 mil, which I tend to think is
a bit low since it often ignores goblinoids within countries and the vast
areas that aren't included in any "official" census.  So I'd say for the
outer world maybe 100 million, 50%-75% of whom are human.

>If we included the Hollow World, the number of humans, lizard kin and
>elves would be considerably higher.


At least the known parts of the HW...

>If we considered the invisible moon, the Rakasta would be by far the
>second most numerous race of Mystara.


Good point.

What would be the most common goblinoids?  I'd tend to guess the Orcs, based
on what we know of the KW, but there are quite a few distinct gnollish
tribes as well, and they seem to be a rather old race.  Kobolds, goblins,
and hobgoblins seem plentiful as well.

I think this discussion is particularly interesting because it reveals
different DMing styles.  I personally prefer a much more diverse world, and
I tend to make non-humans (and adventurers) more common in the described
areas than TSR described them.

Patrick

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:02:12 +0200
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From:         Shaham Ilan <ohadshm@INTER.NET.IL>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?
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> > Hmm, I will say Dwarves at least have a substanialy larger percentage in
the
> > KW at least. We have Rockhome with a cool million, in an area that has
about
> > 10 million people.
>
> But the percentage decreases dramatically outside the Known World.
>
True, if we assume that the Rockhome dwarves have only migrated in small
numbers outside of the KW and that the original Kogolor dwarves have all
"died" and gone to Hollow World.

> > Ierendi= 58k, the Gaz doesn't say but I think it must have a substential
> > percentage of demihumans.
>
> Yes, at least considering the fact that many hins were exiled there, and
> that there are many elves and half-elves.

Well, Ierendi as a whole is a small nation so we don't have to worry about
them tipping the scale.

>
> > So out of a population of 8, 500,000 we have:
> > humans (76%~)
> > 473,000 elves (5.5%~)
> > 1,070,000 dwarves (12.5%~)
> > 254,000 halflings (4~)
> > 9,000 gnomes (a fraction of a percent)
> > 102,000 goblinoids (1.5%~)
>
> Ok. Adding the regions outside the Known World, I'd say that at most we
> get 1M elves,

How about those wierd elves-ogres in Davania and elves in Davania at
general? And there are lots of elves in the savage coast, so maybe they are
found also in central and western Brun in significant numbers?

>1.5M dwarves and 0.5M hins,

There is also room (and historical reasoning) for a frightingly large
population of Hin (or another name Halflings call themselves) on Davania.
They are a shorter lived race than elves or dwarves so shouldn't they be
more prolific?

> plus 50k gnomes.

Agreed. I would suggest to start breeding gnomes in captivity.

> If we assume even a total of 60M humans, we get less than 2% elves, and
> less than 3% dwarves. Hins stay at less than 1%, and gnomes appear as a
> near extinct race (which they are, there are probably more gnomes in the
> HW than in the OW).

60m humans. Gosh that's a few. I woulf have to think about that.


> Rakasta: not much common in the Known World, with the exception of
> Ochalea, were they might range at about 5% of total population, but
> occupying a large territory.

WE know they are a few in the savage coast. So we have them all over
Mystara. Maybe as being a hunter-gatherer society they are spread about
larger territories than humans. So tribes are far between.

> Lupins are fairly common everywhere in the
> Known World, rating at 2-3% in Glantri, more in Heldann, Thyatis and
> Ostland, but less everywhere else. They are very common in Ochalea (my
> guess: up to 20-25% of the population, common enough to be represented
> in the government and army).

So if they are a integral part of human society they must be already counted
in the numbers of the KW populations, which brings down the percentage of
humans. 4% of Thyatis equals 120k, thats the size of one of Vestland!


>
> > And what about centaurs?
>
> Few in the Known World. Perhaps a small number in Alfheim or Vyalia.

I guess after the conquest of Alfheim/Aengmor we won't see Centaurs there in
the near future. But I believe they should be as prolific as rakasta (as
they are a similar semi-barbaric culture) all across central Brun, and there
could be virtually millions across the central plains of Davania (the whole
Milenian- mythological greece feel of the region, the landscape and all)

> > I think that the poulations of fairys and other "spirits of nature" are
less
> > importent as they don't have an impact pn the ecology (not a negative
one at
> > least). I would group those with undead as "not people"... they are
sentient
> > but are not "societies of sentient beings" as such.
> > Another related thing. How many dragons are in the KW? Are the dragons
> > mentioned in Dragon Magazin the rulers of dragon nations or are they the
> > only dragons in the region?
>
> They are the rulers. However, there aren't many more dragons in the
> Known World, though many may live in the bordering wilderness.
>
> > Ho many dragons are found in the Wyrmteeth
> > mountains?
>
> According to CM1, the Wyrmsteeth house 1000+ dragons. They do not form a
> sizeable enough population to be shown in a census, as I would guess
> there are less than 15.000 dragons in the outer world.
>
15,000 dragons! IMO we are talking about a much smaller population. I
believe tha Wyrmteeth nation with it's 1000 strong population should be the
ONLY dragon nation in the world. Can the world handle 15k dragons? Don't
forget Mystara already has a huge hoste of other megapredetors (Griffons,
Hippogriphs, Wyverns, Chimeras and whatever you can pull out a monster
manual). Considering the fact that Mystara doesn;t have a larger population
of giant herbivors than say- earth, it probably couldn't handle so many
dragons. I would say 2-5K, and only a fraction of those preying on civilised
lands.

> Here is my guess, based mostly on the following (arbitrary) assumptions:
> 1) this computes only the pre-wrath population on the OW, excluding
> creatures living underwater.
> 2) there are few humans outside the described areas. Especially, there
> are few humans on Davania other than those in the Milenian city states.
> 3) The Known World/Alphatia/Hule is the region with higher population
> density of Mystara.
>
> Humans         40.000.000       (Incl. Alphatians & other aliens, and
>                                  Half-elves & other crossbreeds)
> =========================
> Dwarves         1.300.000
> Rakasta         1.300.000
> Lupins            800.000
> Shadow Elves      500.000
> Elves             600.000
> Halflings         300.000
> Aranea            250.000
> Gnomes             50.000
> -------------------------
> TOTAL Near-H.s  5.000.000
> =========================
> Orcs            1.500.000       (Incl. Ogres & Trolls)

Why including Ogres and Trolls with orcs?

> Goblins         2.000.000       (Incl. Hobgoblins, Thouls & Bugbears)
> Gnolls & Kobolds  700.000
> -------------------------
> TOTAL 'Noids    4.200.000
> =========================
> Lizard-Kin        800.000       (Krolli, Shazak, Malpheggi, Cayma,
>                                  Gurrash, Ssurrik & others)

I think there could be a reason for putting a very large population of
Lizardmen and Lizard-kin all around Davania making those cool taled critters
the number2 or 3 race.

> Weirds         10.000.000       (Gyerians, Tortles, Wallara,
>                                  Emerondians, Ndjatwa, Nagpas, Enduks,
>                                  Phanatons, Shapechangers, Faenare
>                                  Manscorpions, Minotaurs, Wee Folk
>                                  Geonids, Giants & others)
> =========================
> TOTAL         ~60.000.000

hmm, come to think of it if the 15,000 dragons are feeding on the sentient
beings on a regular basis, than it is logical that Mystara has so very few
of those.
>
> Here, humans are 66% of the total, with a non-human population. I doubt
> there are many more non-humans, though humans' numbers might be
> reasonably boosted, raising them from 66% to 70-75%.
>
> If we included the Hollow World, the number of humans, lizard kin and
> elves would be considerably higher.
>
> If we considered the invisible moon, the Rakasta would be by far the
> second most numerous race of Mystara.
> --
>
>
>                 Giampaolo Agosta


These numbers are kind of hard to agree on as we don't have enough
"evidence" in canon even to start reasonings. While the numbers I had in
mind are not too different from yours I can find millions of different ways
to change them and still be in accordance with the canon number of
creatures.
I think what is importent for a DM to know is what are the ratios of
population races in his game world. It is all in how a DM sets the level of
fantasy in his game world- high fantasy vs low fantasy.
In one campaign where the fantasy level is preety low, most encounters would
be with humans, and a Lupin that the charechters may encounter is a strange
and exotic creature. A dragon in such a campaign will be a creature most
people have believed to be too awful to be true, and the appearence of one
in the countryside can destroy the normal lives of the peasants.
In another campaign world, a Lupin is the blacksmith the charechters bought
their swords from. A flight of dragon may pass far overhead, and send
shivers down the peasants backs while they carry on with their regular day's
work.
I think this is one of the things that add flavor to each DMs unique
campaign.

Morphail.

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:00:32 +0300
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Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Solmyr <solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI>
Subject:      Re: 3E:  Undead Glantrian Princes
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David Knott wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2000-10-16 1:15:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI writes:
>
> > I wasn't aware that undead didn't have Con scores in 3e. It seems rather
> >  odd that they don't, though - Con may not represent their physical
> >  health (they are dead), but it can still represent their resilience and
> >  body structure. Plus, they need something to give them hit point bonuses
> >  per hit die, and affect Con-related skills.
>
> They get d12 for HD (regardless of actual class) and use Cha to
> modify Concentration rolls.
>
Still, I'd say that for such unique individuals as certain Mystaran
undead, the regular rules could be modified. I'd even go as far as to
saying that Brannart McGregor isn't really undead, never having become
what he is via any necromantic or life-affecting magic but rather via
nuclear radiation.

--
******************
Aleksei Andrievski
aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star
solmyr@kolumbus.fi
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:31:52 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans can fit on the head of a pin?

>> Personally, I don't think there are many large (human) empires on
south-western Davania or Skothar. Northern Brun seems to be ocupied by
sprse barbarian and goblinoid tribes. <<

There might not be. Point is, who knows?
We can guess, but the guesses are going to have huge margins of error (I admit mine does), because it depends a lot on unknown factors. Like I said in my own estimate - it depends whether the "unknown" parts of the world are sparsely inhabited, or if there are some more densely settled areas in them, &tc.

We can guess, but not everyone's going to like our guesses (if I assume there *aren't* any well-populated areas outside the places we know, then there will be those who criticize that decision). I tried to strike a happy medium. Which usually means it disatisfies everyone. 8-)

>> Considered the population of the Known World/Alphatia/Savage Coast areas (which are supposed to be the "civilized" world), I'd settle for 60 millions, or 90 at most. <<

Well, the KW was the civilized world until we found out that the Savage Coast wasn't empty like in X9 (was it X9? I can't remember and I'm too lazy at the moment to go look for it), and same with the Serpent Penninsula. Or the HW.

Sure, there might be nothing but scattered nomads out there beyond the areas we know. But if there are settled areas, even if they're at the level of technology & development of Sumeria or ancient Babylon, those places could support a not insignificant number of people. If there aren't any, then that does lower the population estimates. If there are a fair number of places one would call civilized nations, then that might boost the population estimate a lot.

>> This supposes the presence of very large empires on eastern Skothar. <<

Or medium sized ones there with some other medium sized nations in the "unmapped" parts of Davania (the population number we have for Davania only inlcudes the area mapped in PWA II, which isn't nearly most of Davania).

>> What do you include in "demi-humans"? <<

Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, basically the human-shapped non-humans who are considered "benevolent" (as opposed to humanoids, which are basically the human like non-humans who aren't usually considered "good people" for whatever reason).
--


                Giampaolo Agosta


agathokles@libero.it
agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it
http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:04:40 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans can fit on the head of a pin?

>> Personally, I don't think there are many large (human) empires on
south-western Davania or Skothar. Northern Brun seems to be ocupied by
sprse barbarian and goblinoid tribes. <<

Oh, one other thing: even sparse, nomad tribes are likely to produce "Alphatia-like" population densities of a couple people per square mile. Considering the vast expanse of undeveloped areas (most of Brun, virtually all of Skothar, the majority of Davania) that would fall into that category, even that would produce a total population around 150 millions.

When you throw in the fact that we "know" places like Tangor exist, Kingdoms along the southern coastal region of Skothar, probably an area as big or bigger than the Savage Coast, then I'm pretty sure we're getting to at least 150 million people total in and on Mystara.

And that's if the vast majority of it is like you say - sparsely inhabitted by tribes and nomads.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:13:32 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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Andrew Theisen wrote:
>
> Myself, I'm not terribly impressed by them. They're okay, I guess (and I
> can see some definite advantages to them), but mostly I think they're
> overpowered. In particular the Vampire and Lycanthrope templates. Some of
> the abilities just seem too unbalancing- why does a vampire get a +2 to
> Intelligence just for becoming a vampire? (Maybe I watch too much Buffy,
> but I think there are probably some pretty dumb vamps out there...).

Vampires from the template should resemble Dracula more than Spike, I
think.

> As far as Lycanthropes, I think (again) they are too powerful, not to
> mention they just don't quite have the flavor of the PC4 lycanthropes. I
> guess my main complaint is that templates work fine as "beefing up" NPCs,
> but they don't seem to work too well when applied to PCs... which is maybe
> the point. I dunno.

You might need to play them to see?

> Anyway, I've started working on the Prestige Class to beat all Prestige
> Classes- the lycanthrope Prestige Class, and I'll be wanting some feedback
> on that soon.

Interesting concept.

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:21:20 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Evil Genius <jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?

>> Someone posted a described-world figure of 30 mil, which I tend to think is a bit low since it often ignores goblinoids within countries <<

Problem is, the "ignored" goblinoids are given numbers in the various PWAs, but they're always pathetically low (IMO, too low to have enough fun with them. I call for a 'noid invasion of the critters from the vast expanses of Unknown Brun).

Given that, and the fact that the "actual" total figure for the known/described surface area comes to about 25 million (including a not ungenerous guess for the Savage Coast in that number), then 30 million for the "described" zones isn't too bad.

As for the "un-censused areas":

>> and the vast areas that aren't included in any "official" census.  So I'd say for the outer world maybe 100 million, 50%-75% of whom are human. <<

Thats where I end up adding a bunch of folks to cover that, with 100 million being IMO low, but since I added in the HW at a guess of 30 million total to my surface guess of 120 million total to get 150 million total for Mystara (then added in another 50 million on the X-Factor, see below), then we're "only" apart by 20%, which considering that we're guessing (and by guesses I kind of mean "talking out of our fundiments", since no one knows. For all I know, out in the unexplored depths of Brun, only a guy named "Scooter" lives there, all alone with his dog, "Mutley").

As for Dwarves: I guess I'm with those who think most of them would be in the KW, since we know that's where Kagyar put the ones he made after the Rain of Fire virtually wiped out the old ones (who became the Kogolor in the HW) - there'd be some other Dwarven enclaves, probably (if their are some in Alphatia, then one can't say for sure that there *aren't* any other Dwarves elsewhere, and there might be some colonies of them in areas, even Kingdoms of them but not as big as Rockhome; but again, who knows for sure one way or another?)

Btw, I'm not sure where all the Rakasta & Lupins on Ochalea are comming from, I think I remember reading something along those lines but now I don't know where. I'm actually interested in people's sources for that, so if someone knows, please mail me (either on the list or privately).

>If we considered the invisible moon, the Rakasta would be by far the
 >second most numerous race of Mystara.

>> Good point. <<

Well, if one is going to include the Rakasta of the invisible moon, then one *certainly* must include the creatures who live in the sea (and, actually, one ought to even if one *doesn't* include the invisible moon, since the dudes who live in the seas of Mystara are on Mystara); that'd have some sea elves, lots of merfolk (just how many guys *are* there in the Twaelar Empire, for instance? Btw, that's an "Empire", population unknown, outside of the "Known World" as such, in the Sea of Dread). &tc.

200 million to me still seems about right, and even perhaps a tad low once you start counting every sentient creature.

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:31:13 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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David Knott wrote:
>

> Another problem is that the size of the infected humanoid is not taken
> into account as it would need to be to apply proper penalties.  That
> Gnome Weretiger becomes rather implausible if you accept that a
> Small Gnome transforms into a Large Tiger -- surely the wereform
> should be about the size of a tiger cub to reflect the smaller humanoid
> form.

This is based on a conclusion that does not follow the premise - given
that lycanthropes *already* violate conservation of mass/energy in the
shapeshift, demanding that a small demihuman should become a medium
tiger strikes me as peculiar.

> So I would agree -- the lycanthrope template needs more work.

Playtest them before judging.

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:00:25 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      Ogg.: Re: [MYSTARA] What is your favorite Mystara setting Module
              (Module x3)             why?               (History)
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Il Sat, 21 October 2000, Andrew Theisen has wrote:

> My personal all time favorite, though, has to go to X3: The Curse of
> Xanathon. It's the first module I ever played in, and one of the first
> experiences I ever had with roleplaying. Ah, when I think back on memories
> of skulking through the ducal barracks... *sigh* Where has my youth gone? ;)
>
> It was also quite different from most other modules then and since- a real
> mystery/whodunit type of thing. Sure, it can be played hack 'n slash, but
> the real treat comes in going the other way, and making the players really
> try and investigate and put clues together. I'd be tempted to say that
> David Cook's B6: The Veiled Society was inspired in part by X3, and in some
> ways the material of B6 is more absorbing (a mafia-like organization,
> several different factions, all with their own interests) but X3 does a
> much better job of organizing and implementing the techniques of mystery
> roleplaying.
>

I agree with you. I also have played both advebtures and I think that the module x3 is a very complete adventure. It help your characters to grow and familiarize with the ruler of mystara (Stephan of Rhoona). It make me a little sad to know from PWA of 1016 (or 1015, I don't remember) that Stephan was killed....
About the "Veiled society" is a much more investigating
Adventure.


AltaVista Free email service

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:09:36 +0000
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Leonardo Giuliani <l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT>
Subject:      Favourite class
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Can I ask you what's your favourite character class?
I always like the elves, their ability of warriors and mages at the same times makes them my favourite class.. :-)


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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:10:58 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: What is your favorite Mystara setting Module and why?
              (History)
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:20:42   Yazin Delmire wrote:
>Just a quick aside, what's your favorite module and why?
>

Oh, I don't know... Wrath of the Immortals, maybe? :)

No, though I actually like WotI (despite its many and often criticized flaws), my favorite adventure would have to to be B10: Night's Dark Terror - it really is one of the best adventures ever written for D&D/AD&D IMHO. There are other good ones of course, though my knowledge is fairly limited to Mystara-related adventures (although I think the Fate of Istus adventure for the Greyhawk campaign was very interesting... never got to finish it, sadly :( and the Dragonlance Chronicles adventures are very interesting too, if you ask me). X1 is good, but I also find that X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield, X12: Skarda's Mirror, and X13: Crown of Ancient Glory are all quite excellent. There are still a number of these old adventures I don't know, however, so I'm looking very much forward to their publication on the net.


   - The Stalker



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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:14:30 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
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Subject:      Re: 3E spells (was: DoD/Fate of a thousand wizards)
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:25:46   David Knott wrote:
(snip)
>
>The preparation is ruined by the failed completion/casting of the spell,
>just the way it would be if the caster failed an arcane spell failure
>check or a Concentration roll during the casting process.  It is pretty
>much the way things have always worked, with slightly different
>terminology to explain it.  Once you begin the final casting of a spell,
>that spell must either be cast successfully or lost.  Since the spell
>cannot be cast successfully on the Day of Dread, it is lost at that
>point.  However, if a spellcaster makes no attempt to cast a spell
>during the Day of Dread, then all prepared spells should remain
>prepared and available for use once the magic comes back.
>

Oh, okay. For some reason I just got the impression that the WWM would ruin memorized/prepared spells even if they weren't cast, but if you put it like that, then we're in complete agreement. I even agree that the spells should be lost if a spellcasters even *tries* to cast them during the WWM.


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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:59:29 +0100
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From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:06:55   Byron D. Molix wrote:
>I find it very difficult to swallow that an old hand gamer would dislike 3e
>mostly based on terminology and explanations.  The game works 90% like it
>always did in the things that matter to most people.  For instance, wizards
>still select and use spells in almost exactly the same way as before (which
>without the inclusion of the Sorcerer would have driven a dissatisfied gamer
>such as myself up the wall).
>

I don't dislike 3e *only* because of of terminology and explanations, but also because of the rules. I dislike the sorceror because I think it's a boring class (there is a reason why people quickly nicknamed them 'fireball-dispenser', as those old, boring spells are likely the only ones they'll ever cast), and I think the support of a class-based system is archaic and obsolete in role-playing of today - they should have based the whole thing on a skill-based system instead IMHO. I'm also disappointed that they used the old memorization/prepared spells system rather than a spell point system - they did make one for PO:SM which could have been modified to work well (it does IMC), but they just threw the idea away :(
   I was excited about it when I first heard of 3e - yes, we really did need a new version of them game - but I find the results quite disappointing. Another thing about this is WOTC's elitist attitude about the project, which I found very unbecoming... As someone mockingly said on DND-L: "... and it'll even cure cancer too!" Harsh, but there was a lot of hype about this whole thing, and it has turned out nearly as interesting and innovative as it should have IMHO.

>So the description of wizards doesn't match elves? Why should it?  Elven
>wizards would undoubtably have their own description if it were to become
>important.  You can't make a description of "Soldier" that matches every
>nation's armed forces during the height of the Roman Empire. (Celts would be
>Chaotic, Romans would be Lawful, the Western European tribes would likely
>run the gamut.) Why arbitrarily limit an equally broad descriptor in a
>fantasy game?
>

You're right of course, but given that elves are some of the most well established arcane spellcasters (and often said to be the ones from whom humans learned arcane magic), it does seem rather odd to me, and I know that I'm not the only one who thinks so.

>As for Concentration, it seems to be the ability to ignore physical
>impairment. Every single DC example is being grappled, damaged, tossed about
>by exterior forces, or engaging in strenuous physical activity.  It's a
>tossup as to whether willpower is better than stamina in this case.
>Although I'll tell you that no matter how angry I get, I can't yell at
>someone if I'm winded and panting.
>

The rules don't give you that choice as they are written, though, which I think is a mistake.

>3e isn't perfect, but no game is, especially 1st Edition.  If I can resist
>making spellcasters roll to cast spells and totally removing that 'spells
>per day' mechanic in favor of playing the game as written, it means that it
>isn't a horribly broken engine.
>

Obviously no game is ever perfect, but there are some systems out there which are older than 3e and yet seem less flawed to me.

>Besides, this entire issue was originally a Mystara specific issue, not a 2e
>or 3e one.

Granted. I may have carried my discontent over 3e into this debate when there was no room for it, and where it was uncalled for. If that is the case, then I'll admit it, apologize, and just move on and let the matter rest.

>  It doesn't matter whether spells are prepared or memorized, or
>whether it takes one hour to prepare spells or 'X minutes per level' to
>memorize them.  If the DoD says you lose any spells you attempt to cast, you
>lose them.  If you just can't cast them, but you retain the ability when
>magic returns, then you retain the ability when magic returns.  It's as
>simple as 'What does the Week Without Magic or the Day of Dread mean?'
>

Okay, but as I already said to David Knott, that wasn't the impression I got before - at the time I thought some of you claimed that prepared spells would be lost during the WWM even if spellcasters did not try to cast them. You don't seem to be saying that after all, so we don't disagree.

>I'm getting the impression is you lose the spells you attempt to cast, but
>there is still much confusion on that simple point.

I would agree with that, though.

>I'm tempted to say that
>in my campaign, if magic isn't abroad in the world you can't activate any
>magic (ie you can't initiate any action that would result in a magical
>effect happening, so the mages and clerics would keep their spells, items
>keep their charges, etc)
>

IMHO magical items would not lose charges as you would not be able to activate them at all (like bullets that you cannot fire), though prepared spells would be lost because the mental attempt to trigger them was uttered.

>Byron
>
>As an aside, Dragon magazine is terrible about not supporting games that are
>not currently in print. As far as I can remember, 1st edition support
>vanished as soon as 2e was the slightest bit established. OD&D didn't vanish
>until now because it was in print until this year (that Classic D&D game
>box), but I still haven't seen an article for over 5 years.
>

True, but I've never seen them radically change a game and then force that change upon all players inside a time period of less than a few months before. It seems quite aggressive to me, and even hostile to those of us who do not care for the change. Both myself and others have noted on DND-L that we had the impression that those of us who supported 2e were being treated as sheep who didn't matter to the process at all, and the fact that WOTC never responded to those concerns do not bode well, I fear.


   - The Stalker



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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:48:58 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         Beau Yarbrough <lby3@LBY3.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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At 16:13 10/21/00 -0700, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

>> Anyway, I've started working on the Prestige Class to beat all Prestige
>> Classes- the lycanthrope Prestige Class, and I'll be wanting some feedback
>> on that soon.
>
>Interesting concept.

        It does have a precedent, in that PC4 handles lycanthropy that way.
Characters can choose to burn XP to gain more mastery over their condition.
        Of course, I think it should still require level 5 or above, to stay in
line with other prestige classes.

        BEAU
        http://www.LBY3.com/

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:35:25 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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Beau Yarbrough wrote:
>
> >Interesting concept.
>
>         It does have a precedent, in that PC4 handles lycanthropy that way.
> Characters can choose to burn XP to gain more mastery over their condition.
>         Of course, I think it should still require level 5 or above, to stay in
> line with other prestige classes.

I wasn't trying to shoot it down, I was pondering a Viking-style
prestige class aimed at barbarians that lets them turn into bears. :-)

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:43:13 +0100
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
Organization: Angelfire  (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80)
Subject:      Re: Asssault on Glantri & Second WWM
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:29:44   David Knott wrote:
>Another idea on the second Week Without Magic:
>
>Note that its effects are described in very similar terms to the later
>annual Day of Dread (since Immortal magic still works).  At the time
>of the sinking of Alphatia, a Day of Dread occurs.  Since it does not
>occur on Kaldmont 28 (the only day on which this event had occurred
>every few decades or so in the past) and since it comes close on
>the heels of the real Week Without Magic, most people (including
>Immortals such as Benekander) believe that it is another Week
>Without Magic.  However, when magic returns a day later, some
>spellcasters gradually discover that magic works once again, and
>the situation gradually returns to normal as word gets around.
>Because this event proves to be of shorter duration and lesser
>severity than the Week Without Magic, it is mostly forgotten
>in the years that follow.
>

I rather like this idea, particularly is we're to go with what Herve said and eliminate the second WWM. In that case, this is just the way I think it should be done... If we put this into something like the MA, then we'd be changing canon, but I don't really care if we do so or not, as long as we enrich Mystara by what we do. In case I don't mind so much, because I don't see much difference either way, though this does cause me to ponder a question I should have put to Herve when he made his suggestion a few days ago - what's the problem with having a second WWM?


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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:15:02 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Dylan Gault <dylan.gault@SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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Beau Yarbrough wrote (on the subject of lycanthrope prestige
classes):

>
>         It does have a precedent, in that PC4 handles lycanthropy that way.
> Characters can choose to burn XP to gain more mastery over their condition.
>         Of course, I think it should still require level 5 or above, to stay in
> line with other prestige classes.
>
There was also something like this in an early, and I mean early,
Dragon magazine. You can find it in The Best of Dragon Vol. 1.

"Lycanthropy--The progress of the Disease" by Gregory Rihn.
Works much better with 3E rules. (So there Stalker!)

I was also thinking of developing something along these lines, but I
seriously lack to time right now. I'll be interested to see what you
(whoever it was that said they were working on it) come up with.

Dylan G

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=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:12:19 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Byron D Molix <lockheart1930@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Support in Dragon (was 3E spells)

On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:59:29 +0100, The Stalker <alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM>
wrote:

>>As an aside, Dragon magazine is terrible about not supporting games that
are
>>not currently in print. As far as I can remember, 1st edition support
>>vanished as soon as 2e was the slightest bit established. OD&D didn't
vanish
>>until now because it was in print until this year (that Classic D&D game
>>box), but I still haven't seen an article for over 5 years.
>>
>
>True, but I've never seen them radically change a game and then force that
change upon all players inside a time period of less than a few months
before. It seems quite aggressive to me, and even hostile to those of us
who do not care for the change. Both myself and others have noted on DND-L
that we had the impression that those of us who supported 2e were being
treated as sheep who didn't matter to the process at all, and the fact that
WOTC never responded to those concerns do not bode well, I fear.
>
>
>   - The Stalker
>

I won't dispute that it's been a radical change, but it seems right within
their policies.  Around this time a year or more ago, I attempted to submit
article ideas for SAGA to Dragon magazine (both Dragonlance which it seemed
TSR was refusing to support, and Marvel which they were supporting with
supplements at the time).

The editor told me in no uncertain terms that there would be some SAGA
support in every issue for the rest of the year, he was full up, and would
like me to submit more ideas for AD&D (2e mind you) instead.  It took about
2 months to see any Marvel support, and that was usually on the order
of 'Here's an NPC that you were never going to use in the first place'. I'm
glad I didn't hold my breath and attempt to get my 'Horror and Super-
Heroes' article into this year's October Dragon mag.

So while, it's never been so visible before, I've felt Dragon to be fairly
unsympathetic for the last 3 years.  I'm hoping that with them admitting
that they are looking for articles based in out-of-print settings such as
Mystara means they are changing their tune even slightly.  You couldn't
have published a fiction story set in Mystara in Dragon last year from what
all I've read in some of the archives, and heard from people. (Slight
exaggeration, but not much of one)  Given that my favorite setting is Al-
Qadim, and Mystara is the first one I've run that I like running and my
players enjoy as much as I do, I'm all for giving the mag the chance to put
their money were their mouth is.

Byron

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:03:25 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: How many Mystarans exist?
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Agathokles wrote:

> David Knott wrote:
> >
> > I suspect that an even greater percentage is Human (perhaps 90%).
>
> Why? On Davania, humans are not prevalent, and Rakasta seem pretty
> common on Skothar, too. The average "non-colonized" area might be like
> the Orc's Head in the Savage Coast.

In fact, Gnomes are very prevalent in Vulcania.

Ethan

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:14:26 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

> This is based on a conclusion that does not follow the premise - given
> that lycanthropes *already* violate conservation of mass/energy in the
> shapeshift, demanding that a small demihuman should become a medium
> tiger strikes me as peculiar.

True. I would, however, have to say that as size shift of more than one
size class is a bit crazy. Medium Human going to Large Tiger is ok. Small
Gnome going to Large Tiger is NOT ok.

> Playtest them before judging.

I put the Weretiger template to the test with my weretiger character. She
gets a nice hefty bonus - and now has a strength of nearly 30. +12 adds a
lot for just a foot of height in hybrid form.

PLUS

Why don't all werecreatures have hybrid forms? Sorry, but werebear hybrids
rock. I think I'll stick to the PC4 werecreature interpretation for PCs.
For NPCs, I'll use the templates.


Ethan

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Date:         Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:23:56 -0700
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
Sender:       Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
From:         Marizhavashti Kali <xenya@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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SteelAngel wrote:
>
> True. I would, however, have to say that as size shift of more than one
> size class is a bit crazy. Medium Human going to Large Tiger is ok. Small
> Gnome going to Large Tiger is NOT ok.

A size shift from small to large isn't really that much greater than
medium to large.

> > Playtest them before judging.
>
> I put the Weretiger template to the test with my weretiger character. She
> gets a nice hefty bonus - and now has a strength of nearly 30. +12 adds a
> lot for just a foot of height in hybrid form.

...for a supernatural, shapeshifting, furry, fanged, and clawed engine
of destruction.

> PLUS
>
> Why don't all werecreatures have hybrid forms? Sorry, but werebear hybrids
> rock. I think I'll stick to the PC4 werecreature interpretation for PCs.
> For NPCs, I'll use the templates.

Which is PC4?

--
Deird'Re M. Brooks   | xenya@teleport.com |  cam#9309026
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
"Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps."
 http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth

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Date:         Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:46:55 -0400
Reply-To:     Mystara <MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM>
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From:         SteelAngel <edeneau@ANTARES.PHYS.CLEMSON.EDU>
Subject:      Re: [3E] What does everyone think of templates?
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Marizhavashti Kali wrote:

> A size shift from small to large isn't really that much greater than
> medium to large.

Well, yeah.. Medium = ~6'
Small = ~3'

> ...for a supernatural, shapeshifting, furry, fanged, and clawed engine
> of destruction.

But she's a purely natural, shapeshifting, pure blooded alphatian wizard!

>
> Which is PC4?

PC4: Night Howlers

It's the basic D&D accessory that shows how to make Werecharacters! It's
pretty cool, and covers all the major weretypes there are.

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