========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:25:21 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Origin of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Vinicius R. de Moraes" wrote: > > Grade: A+. > It DID rock! > vini. Wow! Thanks! I'm glad you liked it :) Since this article was prompted by Giulio's mention of Rakastan invaders in Nentsun, I think I'll elaborate more on the Skotharian Rakasta in the future... stay tuned ;) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:56:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Night dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Still plugging away at the VotPA print-outs -- reading it on = the screen > just doesn't work for me -- and I noticed wild discrepencies between = the > VotPA version of night dragons and how they're portrayed in GKoM. Yes, it would seem that the G:KoM team didn't want to include a full = description of the new monster Night Dragon. They copped out and called = it a modified red dragon. I would certainly go by the original = description, though allowing for progress in wizard class and a damaging = breath weapon would be nice too. > Also, I'm only up to the Princess Ark's arrival in Northern = Davania and > the plant-centric kingdom there, but is what Synn was guarding back in > Oceania ever explained in more detail? Nope. Up to the DM. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 08:40:14 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: Origin of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I put 2 players in Radlebb Woods, close to Radlebb Keep - not too close, deep forest -, in contact with a small town of Rakasta. Only the Radlebb Calarii Elves know about them. They are LOVING it. Rakasta have questioned them seriously, hade taken them to their master in the village; they are talking and lunching now. They have never met "Rakassssssssssta" and then they are very "amusssssssssed"... :-) ("What are Rakasta doing there???") :-) I really change things a bit. They have - and they don't talkabout it - a picture of an alien item hanging in the main tent. The male thief and the female cleric are trying to find out what it its, but conversations go slow while lots of fruits come to the table. Yes, Rakasta add _a lot_ to the game. I liked your Article, again. If any of you want to to question or give - or get - an idea, please feel free. vini. Agathokles wrote: > > "Vinicius R. de Moraes" wrote: > > > > Grade: A+. > > It DID rock! > > vini. > > Wow! Thanks! I'm glad you liked it :) > Since this article was prompted by Giulio's mention of Rakastan invaders > in Nentsun, I think I'll elaborate more on the Skotharian Rakasta in the > future... stay tuned ;) > -- > > Giampaolo Agosta ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:48:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Origin of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Very interesting article. I'll give a try to summarize it up, so you can clarify me things if I didn't understand them. Please fill in timelines if possible. A. Prehistoric Rakasta (died out) Cestia A.1. Cave Rakasta (died out) A1.1.Simbasta Western Davania A1.2. Meghala Kimata Plateau A1.2.1 Izonda A1.2.2 Arm of the Immortals A1.3 Outcasts (Ochalea, Norhern Davania) A1.3.1. Domestic Pardasta A1.3.1.1. Bellayne A1.3.2. Mountain Pardasta (Known World) A1.3.3 Fast Runners (Esterhold, Jen) A1.3.4 Northwestern Skothar tribes mix with A2.1.2.(see below) A2. Rakastodon Fatalis (died out) A2.1. Sherkasta (from Davania they reach Tangor SW) A2.1. 1 Subjugated by Rakshasa (become Nentsun Rakasta, similar to Lynxmen) A2.1. 2 Flee from Rakshasa Mix with A1.3.4 and develope into A3. 1. Lynxmen (Norwold, northern Skothar) A3. 2. Snow Pardasta (Norwold, northern Skothar) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:04:46 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Origin of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > Very interesting article. I'll give a try to summarize it up, so you can clarify me > > things if I didn't understand them. Please fill in timelines if possible. > > A. Prehistoric Rakasta > (died out) > Cestia (Prehistoric Rakasta = Cave Rakasta & Rakastodon, there is no common ancestor save the original couple) > A1.1.Simbasta > Western Davania Eastern Davania, then migrated to western Davania > A2.1. Sherkasta (from Davania they reach Tangor SW) No, they originate from advanced Rakastodon who migrated from Cestia to Skothar through the archipelago east of Bellissaria. Note that modern Sherkasta leave in the jungles and mountains of south-eastern Skothar, and they are still subject to recurrent Rakshasa invasion/control. > A2.1. 1 Subjugated by Rakshasa > (become Nentsun Rakasta, similar to Lynxmen) yes, they probably lose some strenght and special abilities (spell resistance) > A2.1. 2 Flee from Rakshasa > Mix with A1.3.4 and develope into > A3. 1. Lynxmen (Norwold, northern Skothar) > A3. 2. Snow Pardasta (Norwold, northern Skothar) Exactly. Snow pardasta being more closely related to the Davanians than Lynxmen, who are the direct descendants of Nentsun Rakasta. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:59:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:20:53 Solmyr wrote: >"Shawn J." wrote: >> >> 'to be sure' ). I enjoy the "Empire Vs. Empire" exchanges, but overkill just >> makes me lose interest in these types of posts. You wouldn't want to lose >> >Well, obviously people "lose interest" when someone proves his point >(which happens to be opposite to theirs) in a lengthy, detailed manner. > Is that what happened? I read through roughly 25% percent of that lengthy rant and found that IMO about half were taken out of context (quickly identified because these were not new comments and 'quotes' - we've seen them all before) and that the other half were used to reach conclusions that, at best, I just cannot agree with. So... Is it fun to continue the bickering? No. Am I going to comment when it's no fun and I really should be writing events for the MA instead? No. Does it mean that James was right? You tell me... - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:48:57 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Evolution of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is a diagram detailing the evolutive lines of the Rakasta (all IMO, of course). The Domestic breeds are not shown, but they are supposed to have mainly Pardasta, Mountain Rakasta and, to a lesser extent, Servasta blood. Pardasta are a Simbasta/Sherkasta mix, with a wide range of variations, but generally similar to Simbasta, though without manes and with more varied pelage. Mountain Sherkasta are just lighter coloured Sherkasta, living on the mountains. They are known as the Tagh. All breeds come from Bruce's article, of course. Kum-rah + Ba-steh | | Cave Rakasta Rakastodon Fatalis | | Simbasta Sherkasta | | ------------------------------ -------------------- | | | | | | +----------------Pardasta Mountain Servasta | | Sherkasta | | ---------------- | | | | | | | | | Mountain Rakasta | Snow Pardasta | | | | | | | --------------- Cloud Pardasta | | | | | | | Fast Runners Jakar Lynxman | | | ---------------- Caracasta | | Jakarundi Ocelotl I hope it looks good... -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:27:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mystara wrote: >> IMO about half were taken out of context << Now that's not true, of course. Anyone who has DotE can look them up and see. >> the other half were used to reach conclusions that, at best, I just cannot agree with. So...<< Well, conclusions that you don't want to agree with. Again, though; it's a matter of words meaning what they mean; though of course I recognize that when a certain type of person reads in DotE statements like "These islands were settled by non-magical Alphatians who wanted to make their lives away from the tyranny of Alphatian nobles - and they did." {until one of those decided to beautify the islands and displaced the population anyhow}, they then interpret that as either "out of context" or as meaning instead that the Alphatian nobles in the mainland are *not* tyrannical. When one such quote is produced, the usual argument is that its an "isolated example" that shouldn't be seen as the case generally. When the full panolplay is deployed, then still some other excuse is used to dismiss them as not having any meaning. It's hard to see how in any context a quote that shows common Alphatians wanting to get away from the tyranny of Alphatia's nobles means that life in Alphatia for the commoners is not tyrannical and opressive, and is instead benign. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:46:33 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Origin of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 5:56:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, scarole@TIN.IT writes: > A.1. Cave Rakasta > (died out) > > > A2. Rakastodon Fatalis > (died out) Technically neither of these breeds died out -- like many endangered races/cultures, they were relegated to the Hollow World. Of course, no outer world researcher would know that. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:46:37 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Since I think that the idea of Orwellian mind control in Alphatia as a general imperial policy is a bit over the top, an alternative explanation that has occurred to me is that it may simply be sloppy translation. Thyatis has three social classes: Slave, Citizen, and Noble. In translating the corresponding Alphatian terms, whoever first came across the Alphatian term for "middle class" properly recognized it as meaning "between Slave and Aristocrat" but improperly concluded that it had the same meaning as the Thyatian term "Citizen". The higher status Alphatian "Citizens", in particular, are blind to and ignorant of the distinctions and so have continued to use the word "Citizen" when referring to middle-class Alphatians (which would include Servants, Freemen, and Gentry, all lumped together in a way that further confuses the issues). Here is a checklist of the rights that define Thyatian Citizens and how Alphatian "Citizens" measure up: 1) Equal rights to any other Citizen: No (Alphatian "Citizens" include four different classes with very different rights and responsibilities.) 2) May own property: Yes (Technically not true for Servants, but the process of acquiring and registering a farm or other business raises them to Freeman status) 3) May vote in elections: No (What elections?) 4) May bear weapons: Yes 5) May marry whom they choose: Yes (Lack of official recognition of marriage and freedom of movement for all non-Slaves grant that one by default, although Servants may encounter problems in rare instances.) 6) May not be punished until tried: Yes A member of the Alphatian Gentry would look at this list and conclude that indeed most of their people are "Citizens", especially since ambition and the acquisition of wealth do provide a way for Servants to advance to respectable positions in society. He would compare the positions of Alphatian Gentry with those of common Thyatian Citizens and conclude that Alphatia offers greater opportunity. However, any Thyatian (not just one in a privileged position) who looks at this list would zero in on the first item (legal and social equality) as the critical difference between the two empires. He would compare the positions of Alphatian Servants with those of common Thyatian Citizens and conclude that Thyatis treats its common population better. A similar argument could be raised in regard to the legal/judicial systems of the two empires, as each empire could point to aspects of each system where their own is clearly superior to the other. Alphatia is clearly superior in the trial phase of properly determining guilt, innocence, and intent, as you can hardly judge those more accurately than by reading the minds of everyone involved -- as opposed to the Thyatian system that is prone to engage in rushes to judgment. Of course, the Alphatian system would still be completely unacceptable in any society that recognizes any sort of concept of personal privacy. On the other hand, Thyatis has a single legal code that applies to all subjects (Slave, Citizen, or Noble) throughout the Empire, with no differences by region and surprisingly few by social status. In contrast, each Alphatian kingdom has its own distinct set of laws, with the only point of consistency between these sets of laws being that nobles (spellcasters) have more rights and privileges than "Citizens". The main source of the conflict between these two empires is that they are built on totally different philosophical assumptions. Those of the Thyatian Empire should be more readily acceptable and comprehensible to most of us, as they are more in line with the assumptions behind most Western societies of modern history, while the assumptions of the Alphatian Empire are completely alien to us (unless, of course, you wish to regard their racial and class distinctions as metaphors for various forms of real world bigotry). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:46:42 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Leeha (was 3E Denial feat, first draft) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-28 4:26:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > >Then that ability could be selectively extended to other Halfling > >homelands such as Leeha in Norwold. > > Where could I get more information on Norwald? I think the ability > ought to be a manifestation of a long tie to the land. Primarily in the PWAs. No details are given beyond the fact that Leeha is a 1500 year old colony consisting of perhaps 20,000 Halflings in Norwold. It is probably the only officially described location outside of the Five Shires that would meet the qualifications of being a "Halfling homeland". ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:46:44 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Denial, second draft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-28 4:49:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > Partially denied non-damaging spells have > their effects similarly scaled down: A charm spell would last only a > fraction of its normal duration, for instance. Or maybe we could simply say that each effective level of spell turning reduces spell level by one and caster level by two for all level based characteristics. For example: A Halfling who is capable of Denying two spell levels successfully denies a Fireball (3d level spell) cast by a 5th level Wizard. The Denial leaves a 1st level Fireball spell cast by the equivalent of a 1st level Wizard to affect the original target, while a 2d level Fireball spell cast by the equivalent of a 4th level Wizard is turned and has its effect elsewhere. The reductions in spell level would reduce the DCs for the Reflex saves, while the reductions in caster level would reduce the number of dice of damage inflicted by each of the two fireballs. BTW -- I will have some comments on your Master prestige class once I have the chance to collate your class and feat descriptions with my spell analysis. One question, for anyone who might know: To cover the higher spell levels, would it be reasonable to create a second prestige class whose abilities build on those of another prestige class? For example, it appears that the "Hierophant Druids" of earlier editions will be a prestige class that builds on the abilities of the Druid class in the 3E Forgotten Realms supplement. Would a "High Master" prestige class be a reasonable possibility, or is there an inherent problem with stacking one prestige class on top of another? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:21:00 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Citizens Mystara wrote: >> In translating the corresponding Alphatian terms, whoever first came across the Alphatian term for "middle class" properly recognized it as meaning "between Slave and Aristocrat" but improperly concluded that it had the same meaning as the Thyatian term "Citizen". << I can see, perhaps, mistranslating Freemen & Gentry as a sloppy misaplication of "Citizen", but not the Servant class. Why? Because the Servant class is unfree (they *must* have a Master), and thus it would be impossible to see them as a sort of Citizen. >> 2) May own property: Yes (Technically not true for Servants, but the process of acquiring and registering a farm or other business raises them to Freeman status) << This is another important distinction in the Servant class - because they cannot own property unless they own a business (including a farm), that means it is impossible for them to legally own their own home, even if they somehow aquire enough money to do so. This then keeps them dependent, and again means it is rather difficult to see them as falling into a class of Citizenry. >> 5) May marry whom they choose: Yes (Lack of official recognition of marriage and freedom of movement for all non-Slaves grant that one by default, although Servants may encounter problems in rare instances.) << Again, you point to what are problems rather than points of comparison. >> A member of the Alphatian Gentry would look at this list and conclude that indeed most of their people are "Citizens" << Again, not really for the Servant class, since it falls into an "unfree" category. They can get out of that category, but it's aproximately as hard to do so as for a Thyatian slave (A Thyatian slave can buy his or her freedom for no more than 100 gp; it would probably cost at least as much to purchace a business). >> Alphatia is clearly superior in the trial phase of properly determining guilt, innocence, and intent, as you can hardly judge those more accurately than by reading the minds of everyone involved << That is the impression they would give, however, some points to consider regarding that: The Player's Guide does claim that Alphatia's courts are nearly 100% accurate due to the use of ESP - but to do even that first requires catching the cuplrit. Also, in this case what the Player's Guide says is different from what it says in the DM's Sourcebook (When their is a discrepancy, DM's Sourcebooks give the real scoop; thus, for example, we know that average Thyatians mythologize & falsify their history, because the DM's Sourcebook gives the real story). In this case, the DM's Sourcebook points out that Greenspur is more scrupulous about making sure that laws are enforced & trials of commoners are conducted fairly than the rest of Alphatia is. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that justice is perfect in the bulk of Alphatia. Law in practice (rather than theory) in Alphatia: "We'd already lost Joram. He'd insulted a seedy-looking gent in a tavern and the man blasted him clean dead - a master wizard in disguise. There are a lot of them there. The local court let the man off with a fine, a hundred pieces of gold paid to the rest of us. . .and that for murder. The rest of us kept a low profile after that." I think we should ask the Glantrians who were convicted of murdering Torenal during WotI if they think Alphatian courts are perfect. Before someone says "but there was Immortal intervention there", well first we should ask what would happen if our modern legal systems placed a lot of reliance upon Lie Detector tests in courts, using them to determine guilt and innocence and promoted the idea among the public that they were nearly 100% accurate. What would happen would be that it wouldn't be too long until criminals learned how to game the machines (many know even now, but it isn't a high priority because Lie Detector test results are inadmissible in American courts at least, and thus have limited imact on trials). What's the equivilent in Alphatia? Those "almost 100% reliable" ESP convictions. It would take months at most for spellcasters to research spells that spoof ESP and other things used in courts to determine guilt and innocence, researching spells and the like that could produce false readings, leading not only to false aquittals but false convictions as well (wouldn't have to design a spell that had to be cast on the spot in the courtroom, btw - make one that can be cast beforehand and sticks. Not really a problem if you're creative). The frame up of the Glantrians by Atzanteotl is actually fairly crude as such things go (but then he kind of wanted to be). This kind of thing would be commonplace in trials involving experienced Alphatian wizards or those they want to see convicted, for whatever reason. Point being, judgement in other countries might not be perfect, but at least they don't put too much reliance upon spells to substitute for their judgement - which is sort of a pretty Soviet thing to do, also, when you think about it: faith in "Scientific Justice" and claims that it is superior to that of western countries and almost 100% accurate. Putting the description of Greenspur and why it's different from the rest of Alphatia alongside what happened to Joram (quote above) and the Glantrian envoys convicted of murdering Torenal, along with the essential chaotic arbitrariness of law in Alphatia, and their over-reliance upon magic (easily countered by other magic), and one cannot seriously conclude that justice in Alphatia is anywhere close to perfect. It, IMO, requires a lack of imagination to think that people wouldn't have found all kinds of ways to manipulate "ESP Justice", and render it at least as corrupt in practice as any Thyatian court. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:30:12 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > The higher status Alphatian "Citizens", in particular, > are blind to and ignorant of the distinctions and so have continued > to use the word "Citizen" when referring to middle-class Alphatians > (which would include Servants, Freemen, and Gentry, all lumped > together in a way that further confuses the issues). BTW, what would be the percentage of those "citizens" on the total population? Since the aristocracy includes 20% of the population (IIRC), and Alphatian economy seems to rely on a lot of slave power (say 40%, but this involves having many aristocrats and gents not owing slaves), there are only a remaining 40%, divided among servants (30%?), freemen (9%?) and gentry (1%?, the required wealth seems rather high). -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:52:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Philosophical Underpinnings. Mystara wrote: >> Since I think that the idea of Orwellian mind control in Alphatia as ageneral imperial policy is a bit over the top << It may well be, and it sort of is - but it's no more over the top, IMO, than insisting that the Alphatians have Citizens (and, asside from one reference in JA, I can't recall the *Alphatians* ever refering to "Alphatian Citizens" - and indeed their references to "Citizenship" of any kind, I.E. in other countries, tend to drip with scorn over the very idea). >> 3) May vote in elections: No (What elections?) << >> However, any Thyatian (not just one in a privileged position) who looks at this list would zero in on the first item (legal and social equality) as the critical difference between the two empires. << Social equality probably wouldn't be something they'd zero in on; legal/procedural equality, and item number 3 (participation/input into civic life, a constitutional role in the governance of the nation, however slight, being a key in separating citizenship from non-citizenship). >> He would compare the positions of Alphatian Servants with those of common Thyatian Citizens and conclude that Thyatis treats its common population better. << Yep. >> The main source of the conflict between these two empires is that they are built on totally different philosophical assumptions. the assumptions of the Alphatian Empire are completely alien to us. << Not really. Here we get to something, though, which IMO leads to confusion on the subject. Because Alphatia is advanced in magic, and magic can in many ways provide what we would consider "modern amenities" (for those who have access to them - which wouldn't be the Slaves, Servants, and probably not the Freemen, but some Gentry might), analogies are most often made comparing Alphatia with this or that modern society. Alphatia's society, and the philosophical underpinnings of it, however, are neither alien to human experience or modern. Indeed, Alphatia's society far more closely resembles pre-modern societies. The aspect that gives it a mildly "modernesque" feel, and which thus tends to partially shroud its pre-modern nature, is the potential, slight though it may be, for social advancement - but even that isn't exactly alien to pre-modern cultures (and it'd be about as easy or hard) - otherwise it is comparable to India's Caste system. Alphatian society resembles that of Assyria or Persia, or even somewhat more aptly, Egypt. Indeed, if one checks out HWR1, the Alphatian social hierarchy resembles that of the Azcans: Alphatian Slaves have about the same status as Azcan Tlacotin. Alphatian commoners have about the same status as Azcan Maceaulli (with the Servant class having the status of tenant farmers; the Freemen being above that); the Gentry (and probably some Freemen) are similar to the Pochtecatl. The Alphatian Aristocrats hold a position similar to Priests in the Azcan society (or the Priesthood in Babylonian, Sumerian, or Assyrian society; or Priests-plus-warriors in ancient Persian society). Alphatian society isn't that alien, it's just retrograde and pre-modern. Indeed, their society is comparable to the most ancient of societies. Alphatians can pride themselves on how old and unchanging their culture and society is - but not on how advanced it is. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:01:33 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Citizens >> BTW, what would be the percentage of those "citizens" on the total population? Since the aristocracy includes 20% of the population (IIRC), << Give or take; in some areas it would be higher (20% is the number of Wizards, but doesn't, IIRC, include clerics and the like. However, I wouldn't over-estimate their number as a proportion of the whole.) >> and Alphatian economy seems to rely on a lot of slave power (say 40%, but this involves having many aristocrats and gents not owing slaves) << I don't know about the 40% figure, but what I would guess is that in Alphatia slave ownership is much more concentrated than in Thyatis (in Thyatis, supposedly most families own at least one slave, which would spread out ownership. What I would say, aptly, is that about two thirds of Alphatia's population falls into the Slave and Servant classes. The remaning portion between the Aristocracy and that Slave & Servant base would consist of Gentry (less than 1% of the population, and including Mariela-types who one could never say were in the Gentry class due to merit) and Freemen (a reasonable percentage, but mitigated by the fact that the ruling elites of Alphatia would of course tend to want to keep most wealth in their own hands, thus manipulating things if a Freeman compeditor of one of their friends "gets out of hand" and "forgets his place" - note that in Alphatia a Freeman can, if he fails to register his business in a given year, be stripped of it and reduced back to Servant status. Adventures can certainly be built around the theme of a honest Freeman facing this due to the political manipulations of a Aristocrat rival who wants to remove the Freemen from competing in a enterprise the Aristocrat is involved in.) What we might get is, thus, for mainland Alphatia (proportions would be different in colonies and in Stonewall where far fewer people are spellcasters, but the larger commoner population isn't as tyrranized as in the bulk of the mainland): circa 25% Aristocrats. Less than 1% Gentry. About 7% Freemen. circa 67% Slaves & Servants. Split that roughly 50-50 as a good guess. So about 1/3 of the population Slaves and about 1/3 of the population Servants - higher or lower in some Kingdoms. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:41:29 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The Player's Guide does claim that Alphatia's courts are nearly 100% accurate due to the use of ESP - but to do even that first requires catching the cuplrit. Also, in this case what the Player's Guide says is different from what it says in the DM's Sourcebook (When their is a discrepancy, DM's Sourcebooks give the real scoop; thus, for example, we know that average Thyatians mythologize & falsify their history, because the DM's Sourcebook gives the real story). In this case, the DM's Sourcebook points out that Greenspur is more scrupulous about making sure that laws are enforced & trials of commoners are conducted fairly than the rest of Alphatia is. That doesn't lead to the conclusion that justice is perfect in the bulk of Alphatia. For those who watch Red Dwarf, they will know that a mind probe is not always the best way to ascertain guilt. And incidentally, having played mages ranging from apprentices to archmages for some time, I have yet to find any DM who lets ESP (or, for that matter, a good psionic telepathic brainsoftening) ascertain guilt or innocence 100% of the time. It just doesnt happen. Any DM who does let it happen must run dull campaigns, if a 3rd level wizard can resolve a Whodunnit adventure 100% of the time. Hell, if one of my characters committed a crime in Alphatia and they went for an ESP, I know it wouldnt work on me. Reliance on ESP is in any case likely far less reliable than priestly divination spells (detect lie, divination, augury in special cases, commune for heinous crimes) - some of which can be cast for free effectively (I imagine that temples dedicated to Tarastia in Thyatis might well have a detect lie focus on the place - and as an Immortal dedicated to justice, I'm sure that the priestly verdict would carry a lot of weight, even if it's not legally admissable). Indeed, I suspect that most nations would have some magical input in their trial process, though typically of a priestly rather than magical nature. In other words, it's no big deal. The big deal is the "legally admissable" part. There was a worthy article in Dragon a long time ago about the use of magic and psionics in the legal system, including some holes that can be picked in it. Magical divination is subject to all sorts of counters and evasions, and of course is only as reliable as the spellcaster providing it, and so unless the realm is heavily in favour of the use of magic it wouldn't be admissable in court - or at best treated as circumstantial evidence. Of course, it doesn't stop the law enforcement from paying attention to it to amass mundane evidence which can be brought to bear - locating witnesses for example. > What's the equivilent in Alphatia? Those "almost 100% reliable" ESP convictions. It would take months at most for spellcasters to research spells that spoof ESP and other things used in courts to determine guilt and innocence, researching spells and the like that could produce false readings, leading not only to false aquittals but false convictions as well (wouldn't have to design a spell that had to be cast on the spot in the courtroom, btw - make one that can be cast beforehand and sticks. Not really a problem if you're creative). The frame up of the Glantrians by Atzanteotl is actually fairly crude as such things go (but then he kind of wanted to be). This kind of thing would be commonplace in trials involving experienced Alphatian wizards or those they want to see convicted, for whatever reason. Exactly. Bring em on. One of my players had a magical misdirection item implanted into his body with a certain necromancy spell, which would fox lie detection and ESP, with the advantage of being very hard to detect and properly identify (as it misdirects any attempt to divine what it is). A simple "walk into copshop, ESP, judgment passed" on this guy would lead to a totally erroneous (more or less random) judgment. It would take a fair chunk of mage time to work out what was going on there. And that is just one example, I can think of many others (and indeed, many others have been used). For every magical spell, there is a counter. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:18:09 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Night dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. It was discussed earlier that Night Dragon's are modified ruby dragons, probably corrupted by Atzanteotl. Kit Navarro www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri www.geocities.com/paparazzi_glantri ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:15:03 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. In-Reply-To: <20001029230709.3BE37814C@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Alphatian society resembles that of Assyria or Persia, or even somewhat more > aptly, Egypt. That is exactly the impression I got when I opend the DotE boxed set for the first time. Pulling out the Player's Guide to Alphatia, the symbol on the cover set it for me. That "style" of art was commonplace in symbology in Assyrian Palaces. Just a FWIW from a Mystaran newbie. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:42:15 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Isn't it beautiful irony, that the Alphatia and Thyatis GAZ logos (the ones which appear in the covers) are reversed in the inner page printing??? Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:56:18 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 6:06:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > Alphatia's society, and the philosophical underpinnings of it, however, are > neither alien to human experience or modern. The main part that is alien is the social distinction between spellcasters and mundaners -- since there are no spellcasters in the real world, we have no basis for having any society set up social distinctions on that basis -- and I thus described the Alphatia philosophy as "alien" because a major part of it is based on distinctions that do not exist as such in the real world. But you are right on the nose about the overall class/caste system -- it is certainly not alien to historical or even many modern societies. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:56:16 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Alphatian "Justice" (was Citizens) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 6:51:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, rmunch@EASYNET.CO.UK writes: > The frame up of the Glantrians by Atzanteotl > is actually fairly crude as such things go (but then he kind of wanted to > be). This kind of thing would be commonplace in trials involving experienced > Alphatian wizards or those they want to see convicted, for whatever reason. That is a good point (along with the other items you mentioned). How likely an Alphatian commoner is to get justice through spell probes would depend a great deal on the power, skill, and motivation to seek justice on the part of the judges. For example, if a commoner is hauled into court for a crime that appears to be routine and he is probed by a 3d level WIzard (minimum level to cast Detect Thoughts), it would not take much for a mid-level spellcaster (or even another commoner who gets ahold of just the right magic items) to frame him. And I thought the implications in terms of invasion of privacy and dignity were bad enough! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:56:21 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 6:06:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > Freemen (a reasonable percentage, but mitigated by the fact that the ruling > elites of Alphatia would of course tend to want to keep most wealth in their > own hands, thus manipulating things if a Freeman compeditor of one of their > friends "gets out of hand" and "forgets his place" - note that in Alphatia a > Freeman can, if he fails to register his business in a given year, be > stripped of it and reduced back to Servant status. A lot depends on how careful the Freemen are about managing their affairs and/or cultivating friendships with aristocrats. Note that all Dwarf PCs begin play as Freemen -- they take care of their own well enough to ensure that few if any of their number are Servants or worse. Since a business does not have to be very large to maintain Freeman status, the only real reason for an Aristocrat to squash a Freeman's business would be for a personal vendetta -- possible but rare if the Freeman is fairly well liked by most of the Aristocrats he deals with. Thus, simply getting by and managing to register his business once a year should not be a challenge for the average Freeman. One effect of this direct relationship between wealth and social status is that entrepeneurship is discouraged -- it is far more important to be able to maintain your status than to advance it. Gaining further wealth requires investing and thus risking the loss of what you have -- but when the risk of a bad investment involves a social demotion and loss of rights and privileges, you are less likely to take risks. For this and many other reasons, I would picture Alphatians in general as being very cautious and conservative. They have long established customs about the proper ways of doing things, and things generally run very smoothly as long as they follow those customs. On the other hand, trying new things is very risky, so only those with very secure social positions as well as an un-Alphatian independence of thought are likely to try anything remotely original. In a message dated 2000-10-29 5:43:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, agathokles@LIBERO.IT writes: > BTW, what would be the percentage of those "citizens" on the total > population? Since the aristocracy includes 20% of the population (IIRC), > and Alphatian economy seems to rely on a lot of slave power (say 40%, > but this involves having many aristocrats and gents not owing slaves), > there are only a remaining 40%, divided among servants (30%?), freemen > (9%?) and gentry (1%?, the required wealth seems rather high). The proportion of slaves is the key percentage that must be determined to evaluate the other percentages correctly. To get the number of Freemen, I would subtract from 100% the percentage of Aristocrats (perhaps 25%, if we assume 20% Wizards and 5% Clerics and other spellcasters), the percentage of Gentry (for which 1% seems to be a solid estimate by consensus), and the percentage engaged in servile labor (maybe 40-50%), which would leave 24-34% of the population as Freemen. For the servile labor force it is a tough call as to whether more of them should be slaves or Servants. Slaves offer the advantage of having no rights, but on the other hand they are also taxable property and (as intelligent beings) they will resent their status and rebel against it in whatever small ways they can get away with. On the other hand, Servants do not impose any sort of tax liability and may actually put in some extra effort out of a slight hope of improving their lot in life. With these economic considerations, I could easily see typical Alphatians developing a distaste for slavery and preferring to rely on Servants. Of course, they would express this distaste by freeing 5-10% of their personal slaves and then working the rest to death so that they don't have to pay the taxes for them any more.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:09:14 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Night dragons In-Reply-To: <00ed01c04207$2d318c00$b7f317d2@fanavarro> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:18 10/30/00 +0800, Francisco V. Navarro wrote: >> They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. > >It was discussed earlier that Night Dragon's are modified ruby dragons, >probably corrupted by Atzanteotl. Uh, OK. I was referring to what the authors of GKoM said to use, not what the origins of the species were. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:29:21 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 4:35:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > It, IMO, requires a lack of imagination to think that people wouldn't have > found all kinds of ways to manipulate "ESP Justice", and render it at least > as corrupt in practice as any Thyatian court. Lest you think I ignored your post -- you even more clearly raise the points that I praised another poster for. I thought the lack of respect for individual privacy and dignity made "ESP Justice" an undesirable thing -- with the flaws you describe in its technical execution, justice is an even dicier deal than in Thyatis. An Alphatian commoner can be reasonably sure of a fair trial if and only if the magic brought to the case by the courts is more powerful than that used by any spellcasters involved in committing or covering up the crime -- but that is definitely not a very good assumption to make in the magic rich Alphatian Empire. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:22:03 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Wendar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed About Wendar 1) In the process of expanding my web site I came to the mapping of Wendar and decided to add some more villages to the 8m/hex map. I'd like you all to take a look at a Thibault Sarlat's Map that I modified with the location of these three villages: http://(...)/wendar8m.gif The villages are: Northwood - pop 1900 - Has one of the biggest shirines dedicated to Korrigans Kevar - pop 1500 - This one is quoted in MA as being the hometown of Bengarian Doriath - pop 980 - This new village, named after the former King of Alfhein, is the command center of the Alfhein Elves in Wendar. The clanmasters are holding concil here. What do you think? 2) Also during my research I noticed something quite odd. The entries 1016 and 1015 for Wendar in the MA (at Shawn's page) seen to have the east-west directions inverted in the whole text. For example: "Wendarians are the Elven Pass to the southeast, which leads directly to Oakwall" (but Oakwall is in southwestern Wendar!). Could someone check that? Darkblood. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 03:25:30 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Mystara�s Map Navigator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) Nort 1 = Wendar/Glantri border to the city of Wendar East 3 = Western part of the Northern Reaches (this one was hard) Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:11:46 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[MYSTARA]=20Mystara=B4s=20Map=20Navigator?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-29 10:37:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, darkblood18@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) Okay -- what is the real URL? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:47:59 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Ideas for Halfling Feats Comments: cc: mystara3E@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies for those of you who are getting this message twice, but I wanted to ensure that this message and its replies show up in the message archives for the Mystara3E list where possible. Anyway, here are some feats that seem particularly appropriate for Mystaran Halflings, whether or not they are actually restricted to them: Stealth: This feat works much as the Alertness feat except that Hide and Move Silently are the two skills that receive bonuses. This feat is available to Halflings as well as to any other races or cultures that are particularly quiet or sneaky in earlier rule sets. Luck of Heroes: This is a regional feat proposed for the FR supplement to be published next year. It grants a bonus of +1 to all saving throws. In a Mystara campaign, the Five Shires should be included among the regions that receive access to this feat. Denial: Beau Yarbrough already presented a fairly good presentation of this feat. Here are some initial comments: > DENIAL [Special] > Prerequisites: Halfling, No problem there. > resident in the Five Shires, Make that "Halfling homeland" for reasons already cited. So far only the Five Shires and Leeha are officially documented. > +2 Base Will Saving Throw Bonus My main problem with this one is that it strongly relies on Halflings not having access to any classes with good Will saves. In particular, a 1st level Expert would already meet this requirement, even though most other classes would have to wait until 6th level. Another potential problem is that I am not aware of any other feats that have base saving throw bonus requirements. As an alternative prerequisite, I would recommend the feats "Luck of Heroes" and "Iron Will". Since neither Denial nor either of its prerequisite feats is a combat feat that Fighters might take as a bonus feat, there is no way for a Halfling of less than 6th level to acquire the Denial feat. > Benefit: Once a day, a halfling in the Five Shires can cry out "NO!" and > deny the use of magic at close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). The > halfling instantly takes 1d4 hit points worth of damage, even if no attack > is ultimately launched. (A wand merely being raised, for instance.) The > ability draws on the power within the land of the Five Shires itself, and > can only be used there. My only comment on range is that it should apply to the targeting point of the spell. > Denial is a full round action. Slaying or wounding of a denying hin in the > round the effect is used does not cause the effect to be ruined or wasted, > and it has the full effect as normal. > > The ability works like spell turning (see page 255 in the Player's > Handbook), with the number of spell levels being turned equal to the > combination of the halfling's intelligence and wisdom modifiers (page 8, > ibid). Cantrips and orisons can always be turned, so long as they are > ranged spells. Magical items may also be thwarted this way. Immortal magic, > including artifacts, are assumed to have five additional spell levels for > the purposes of denial. My first instinct on this one was to base the ability on the Will save somehow, but the original description in Gaz 8 is not level dependent as saving throws are. However, since intelligence has a more obvious effect on a character's ability in 3E than in earlier rule sets, a case could be made for making this ability dependent solely on wisdom. In addition, there are some circumstance bonuses that Beau neglected. So here is my proposal: Base Denial Level is zero. Add number of points by which wisdom exceeds 10 (but apply no penalty for wisdom below 10). Add +2 if defending own home, clan stronghold, or a location thoroughly familiar and special to Denier. Add +4 (cumulative with preceding bonus) if defending beings who are very dear to Denier. > Unlike the spell turning spell, the ability only works on one spell a day, > and spells are not necessarily reflected back at the caster. Rather, the > spell is deflected in the same manner as grenadelike weapons are (page 138, > ibid), 5 feet per spell level. Spells can be partially denied -- a > lightning bolt cast on a hin could have all but one of its damage dice > denied, meaning that the hin would suffer that one die of damage, while the > rest would be deflected away. Partially denied non-damaging spells have > their effects similarly scaled down: A charm spell would last only a > fraction of its normal duration, for instance. Remember that "Denial Level" I described above? That is the number of casting levels that the Denier is able to divert as described above. In addition, the spell is robbed of one spell level per two Denial Levels. If the Denial reduces spell level or caster level below zero, then none of the spell is left to affect the original target and the full spell effect is diverted. If a spell is incompletely diverted, then two spell effects occur, one at the originally targeted location and one at the place the Denier ends up diverting the effect to. If no other spell level information is given when Immortal powers are converted, treat Immortal level spells or spell effects from artifacts as 12th level spells for this feat. Improved Denial: Beau gave this as a class ability for Masters, but I would detach it from the Master class because that class is present among the Halflings of the Merry Pirates, who clearly do not live in a Halfling homeland where the Denial ability could be used. This feat would have the same effects as the standard Denial feat except that Denial Level based on wisdom is doubled. The prerequisites for this feat are the Denial feat and the ability to cast Halfling Master spells. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:20:37 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Ideas for Halfling Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@egroups.com Comments: cc: mystara3E@egroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:47 10/29/00 EST, Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: >Stealth: This feat works much as the Alertness feat except that Hide and >Move Silently are the two skills that receive bonuses. This feat is available >to Halflings as well as to any other races or cultures that are particularly >quiet or sneaky in earlier rule sets. I'd check the Dragon article about new Feats. I think this is unbalancing. >Make that "Halfling homeland" for reasons already cited. So far only the >Five Shires and Leeha are officially documented. Gaz8 specifically mentions the Five Shires, not "halfling homelands." I'm not militantly opposed, but it was stated repeatedly in the description that the magic comes from the land itself. >As an alternative prerequisite, I would recommend the feats "Luck of Heroes" >and "Iron Will". Since neither Denial nor either of its prerequisite feats is >a combat feat that Fighters might take as a bonus feat, there is no way for >a Halfling of less than 6th level to acquire the Denial feat. Iron Will is a good choice. An excellent choice, actually. >> Benefit: Once a day, a halfling in the Five Shires can cry out "NO!" and >> deny the use of magic at close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). The >> halfling instantly takes 1d4 hit points worth of damage, even if no attack >> is ultimately launched. (A wand merely being raised, for instance.) The >> ability draws on the power within the land of the Five Shires itself, and >> can only be used there. > >My only comment on range is that it should apply to the targeting point >of the spell. And not the denier? I'm confused. >My first instinct on this one was to base the ability on the Will save >somehow, but the original description in Gaz 8 is not level dependent >as saving throws are. However, since intelligence has a more obvious >effect on a character's ability in 3E than in earlier rule sets, a case >could be made for making this ability dependent solely on wisdom. >In addition, there are some circumstance bonuses that Beau neglected. Actually, I kept in Intelligence and Wisdom out of deference to the source material. If I were creating such a feat from scratch, the 3E version of Charisma is a spot-on way to go with it, IMO. >Add +2 if defending own home, clan stronghold, or a location thoroughly >familiar and special to Denier. > >Add +4 (cumulative with preceding bonus) if defending beings who are >very dear to Denier. I dropped those two from my write-up, since they don't map exactly to spell levels, but to a percentage chart in Gaz8. >Remember that "Denial Level" I described above? That is the number of >casting levels that the Denier is able to divert as described above. In >addition, the spell is robbed of one spell level per two Denial Levels. >If the Denial reduces spell level or caster level below zero, then none >of the spell is left to affect the original target and the full spell effect >is >diverted. > >If a spell is incompletely diverted, then two spell effects occur, one at >the originally targeted location and one at the place the Denier ends >up diverting the effect to. > >If no other spell level information is given when Immortal powers are >converted, treat Immortal level spells or spell effects from artifacts as >12th level spells for this feat. My motivations for using Spell Turning and Grenadelike Weapons rules in my write-up was to not introduce additional mechanics. It's a stylistic preference, I know. >Improved Denial: Beau gave this as a class ability for Masters, but >I would detach it from the Master class because that class is present >among the Halflings of the Merry Pirates, who clearly do not live in a >Halfling homeland where the Denial ability could be used. This feat >would have the same effects as the standard Denial feat except that >Denial Level based on wisdom is doubled. The prerequisites for this >feat are the Denial feat and the ability to cast Halfling Master spells. Hin Masters can leave the Five Shires on missions from their superiors and in those circumstances, retain their full abilities. In any case, I'm not sure I understand why the improved denial abilities hin masters get in Gaz 8 should be available to anyone else because hin masters sometimes leave the Shires. (I'm tired and a touch buzzed, so I'm almost certainly misreading you. My apologies in advance ...) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:45:30 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Citizens David Knott wrote: >> and the percentage engaged in servile labor (maybe 40-50%), which would leave 24-34% of the population as Freemen. << IMO, that's a very low estimate of the percentage of servile labor and a very generous estimate of the number of Freemen. To reach that, one would be assuming that the Aristocracy generously keeps wealth out of its own hands so that all businesses could be owned by commoners (a highly unlikely proposition). As DotE's Player's Guide says, ". . .the estate of a mighty wizard may have numerous family members with magical ability. . .and scores of non-magical servants and slaves." (p.14, 1st collumn); I would guess that overall my figure of 67% +/- belonging to the servile classes is the more likely figure. Of course, that wouldn't hold in Stoutfellow, but Stoutfellow is at best an "outlier", and their are indications they don't follow Alphatia's social system at all (for example, in Stoutfellow, they use laws similar to Rockhome, not Alphatia's legal code). In, how shall I say it - here: in more enlightened areas of Alphatia, such as Stonewall, I can see a higher proportion of Freemen, and possibly even in the colonies (commoner farmers owning their own lands seem more likely here). But in most of Alphatia tenant farmers and servile labor seems to be the predominant aspect - mighty wizards served by scores of servants and slaves. Or, as they put it in describing the "anarchy" of Surshield: "wizards (and their servant-communities)"; (p.11). If servant-communities predominate in Surshield, one of the last places one might guess that they would ("anarchy" implying that perhaps the social restrictions/hierarchy would be removed), then still more likely is that to be the predominating structure in the mainland - mitigating against a impressively large number of Freemen. >> since there are no spellcasters in the real world, we have no basis for having any society set up social distinctions on that basis -- and I thus described the Alphatia philosophy as "alien" because a major part of it is based on distinctions that do not exist as such in the real world. << True; but we do have societies where a Priest-caste, often presumed to have mystical powers, has been the Aristocracy. So the point does remain that it mirrors such IRL societies. >> A lot depends on how careful the Freemen are about managing their affairs and/or cultivating friendships with aristocrats. << Yes, but given the typical Aristocratic distain for commoners, that's much harder for them to do than it would be for a Aristocrat. Yes, such is true all over - but point is, in Darokin the distain for such is not nearly as pronounced, for instance. >> One effect of this direct relationship between wealth and social status is that entrepeneurship is discouraged -- it is far more important to be able to maintain your status than to advance it. Gaining further wealth requires investing and thus risking the loss of what you have -- but when the risk of a bad investment involves a social demotion and loss of rights and privileges, you are less likely to take risks. << Yep; Alphatia would more closely resemble Ancien Regime Kingdoms than it would enterprising states like Venice or Genoa or Holland or even England. But, note also that such states tend, over time especially, to concentrate lands and wealth in the hands of the Aristocracy, rather than in the hands of free farmers or the like. >> An Alphatian commoner can be reasonably sure of a fair trial if and only if the magic brought to the case by the courts << This brought to mind another not-so-cool possibility, which springs up in connection to the reference that Greenspur takes care to conduct trials of commoners fairly, moreso than other Kingdoms. Point being "the magic brought to the case by the courts" - but one can easily envision a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" situation - take a simple case of "Insolence". The court is to ESP to determine whether the accused commoner meant to be insolent. The guy bringing the accusation is a Aristocrat. Naturally the guy conducting the ESP on the commoner is an Aristocrat. When the ESP-er comes back and says "yes, Sir, you're right. This varlet insulted you." - well, who's to say he's wrong? He ESP'ed the accused, right? But who's to say he's not just going along with his fellow Aristocrat, who feels insulted and wants satisfaction? Quis Custodes Ipsos Custodiet, as the Thyatians might say? In that sort of situation, the accusing Aristocrat might not even need to deploy magic himself - the courts are naturally inclined to view his position in the best possible light, and give him the benifit of every doubt. Then the outcomes are promoted to the masses as being the result of "100% accurate ESP, magic proving the truth". At least in a public court proceeding where the evidence is shown, if the courts are making a mockery of justice it can be known - with this system, where the evidence is the unseen, consisting of the stated results of mind-reading and magic, well the posibilities for manipulation and rigging the outcomes are endless. The outcome is whatever the guy "casting" (is he really even casting in all cases?) the ESP says they are (is he going to go against his fellow Aristocrats in cases involving commoners? If he does, will he impose harsh penalties? or 100gp fines for killing old Joram?) And if he's not just, then the whole system all a sham - but one th! ! at is difficult to expose as such, because of the image promoted among the masses of the accuracy and reliability of ESP. The *good* thing about this from our standpoint is that it can make for good adventure possibilities (I mean, come on, do we want a utopian situation? I'm sure that would be nice to live in, but it certainly isn't fun for an adventure setting) - all kinds of twisted possibilities are opened up when you look at it this way, and see the flaws inherent in such a scheme of "justice". The adventure potential is endless. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:58:17 -0700 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Patrick Sullivan Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_=5BMYSTARA=5D_Mystara=B4s_Map_Navigator?= MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) These maps look great :-) >Okay -- what is the real URL? http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ Patrick ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:32:13 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-30 1:04:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > IMO, that's a very low estimate of the percentage of servile labor and a very > generous estimate of the number of Freemen. To reach that, one would be > assuming that the Aristocracy generously keeps wealth out of its own hands so > that all businesses could be owned by commoners (a highly unlikely > proposition). As DotE's Player's Guide says, ". . .the estate of a mighty > wizard may have numerous family members with magical ability. . .and scores > of non-magical servants and slaves." (p.14, 1st collumn); I would guess that > overall my figure of 67% +/- belonging to the servile classes is the more > likely figure. I would assume that "mighty wizard" equates to the status of "Lord" or higher, which would be about as rare as the "Gentry". Most lesser Aristocrats would have few or no slaves or Servants, on the grounds that they are generally more trouble than they are worth. Once you get below the Gentry/Lord level of wealth, the remaining Servants with the ambition and/or ability to become Freemen pose no threat to the status quo, especially if they "know their place" and show to their masters that they would be of more value as Freemen with their own businesses than as dependent Servants. To non-Alphatians, such groveling would be too demeaning to consider -- but Alphatian Servants would almost instinctively carry out the proper actions to gain "acceptable" social advancement for themselves if they have the necessary ability to back up their ambitions. As for the willingness of Aristocrats to keep wealth out of their own hands -- all that really matters is the willingness of Lords to let Gentry and/or Freemen gain access to the wealth at the expense of non-Lord Aristocrats. That is not as far-fetched as it might seem, as mundaners know that they must cultivate the favor of their social betters to maintain and improve their status, while the lowest level Aristocrats are more likely to make the mistake of believing that their magical talent is sufficient for them to "count" socially. Pit a commoner who knows the ins and outs of Alphatian society and who has cultivated powerful friends among the Lords against a neophyte Aristocrat, and I would submit that it is the Aristocrat and not the wealthy commoner who is dead meat. To do real harm to that commoner, the Aristocrat would have to either catch that commoner away from his powerful friends or provoke him into committing deliberate Insolence -- neither of which would be likely possibilities for Alphatian commoners who know what to look out for. Between the Gentry and the non-Lord Aristocrats there would exist an uneasy balance of power, as the Gentry would consist of the best of the best among the mundaners while the non-Lord Aristocrats would be members of the upper class who have yet to prove them- selves. To get an idea of how the Lords who are superior to both of these classes regard them, you need only compare in modern armies the experienced NCOs ("Gentry") with junior officers fresh out of the academy or OTC ("Aristocrats"). In modern armies, the newbie lieutenant who disregards the advice of his senior sergeant is widely and properly regarded as a complete idiot. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:57:03 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[MYSTARA]=20Re:=20[MYSTARA]=20Mystara=B4s=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Map=20Navigator?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-30 1:37:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, pds3@DANA.UCC.NAU.EDU writes: > >Okay -- what is the real URL? > > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ Thank you very much! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:56:33 CET Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Max Monas Subject: Darokin help wanted Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed HI everyone, I am about to send my PCs to Darokin. I do have a question though about the Merchant Houses. In the gazatteer is says that for example Corun house is located in Corunglain. Does this mean they only do business in Corunglain or can do also do business in, for example, Selenica? I mean would they have merchants there selling and buying stuff for them there? I hope to hear from you soon. Regards, Max _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:42:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > If servant-communities predominate in Surshield, one of the last > places one might guess that they would ("anarchy" implying that > perhaps the social restrictions/hierarchy would be removed), then > still more likely is that to be the predominating structure in the > mainland - mitigating against a impressively large number of Freemen. IMO, Surshield has more servant communities than the mainland, but that's a consequence of its "anarchy", i.e. the wizards (fewer than in the mainland), control large number of slaves/servants, while on the mainland the average wizardly familiy may have a reduced number of servants/slaves. Many, if not most, mainland wizards aren't land owners, and they work in the bureaucracy (court ESPers, judges, boltmen), and they are actually (upper) middle class. The lack of those kind of people in Surshield (and generally in Bellissaria), accounts for its "anarchy". BTW, it is possible that the lack of servants/slaves forces many wizards to leave their lands untended, accounting for the low population density of the alphatian mainland. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:08:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > As DotE's Player's Guide says, ". . .the estate of a mighty > > wizard may have numerous family members with magical ability. . .and scores > > of non-magical servants and slaves." (p.14, 1st collumn); > > I would assume that "mighty wizard" equates to the status of "Lord" or > higher, which would be about as rare as the "Gentry". Most lesser > Aristocrats would have few or no slaves or Servants, on the grounds > that they are generally more trouble than they are worth. Even if you go by Lords =3D 1% or slightly less, they already hold at least 40% of the population as servants and slaves (assuming they have 40 slaves or servants each, which is not much, especially if they have to maintain a Lord's lifestyle). Also, the rest of the aristocratic population probably has a number of slaves/servants (what trouble do they represent, really? And they are useful, since not all wizards are high level enough that they can spare an Unseen Servant a day to sweep their house). I'd say that the average wizard family (of 4?) keeps one or two personal servants (or slaves, depending on their preferences, and this adds another 5-10%), plus many servants end up as minor clerks (the judge's scribe, etc), bodyguards for not-so-powerful wizards, military, servants to freemen (few, but some freemen with true businnesses will eventually have employees). Moreover, people from the gentry class are wealthy enough to keep servants and slaves by scores (they are as rich as Lords). If we consider them as 1% of the population, and give them only 10 slaves/servants each (1/4 of the number I gave to Lords before), we get another 10% servants/slaves. In the end, we get more than 60% servants/slaves. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:05:25 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Is there an addictive drug spread on the pages of DotE? How is it that Thyatis and Alphatia can command such, um, enthusiasm from the list regulars? I don't have the boxed set -- I run games set in the post-sinking era, and I can wait for DotE to be a free/cheap download from the WotC site -- but I'm amazed that, at the drop of a hat, these sorts of discussions can get going (and stay going) so easily. What is the appeal of the two empires? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:20:06 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Citizens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > For the servile labor force it is a tough call > as to whether more of them should be slaves or Servants. Slaves > offer the advantage of having no rights, but on the other hand they > are also taxable property and (as intelligent beings) they will resent > their status and rebel against it in whatever small ways they can get > away with. They can't get away with it, really. Also, if this was the problem, it would have been true for every other slave-owning society. > On the other hand, Servants do not impose any sort of > tax liability and may actually put in some extra effort out of a slight > hope of improving their lot in life. That is, they are willing to leave you to become self employed freemen... And, most importantly, servants don't come for free. You have to pay them, so in the end they will cost you more than slaves. Slaves require only a little food and some taxes payed every year, and you choose how high the tax his. The tax for slaves is actually more of an insurance policy, you register your slave as worth X gp, and if someone kills him you get X gp. > With these economic considerations, > I could easily see typical Alphatians developing a distaste for slavery > and preferring to rely on Servants. With the economics considerations I did, I won't say Alphatians prefer servants. > Of course, they would express > this distaste by freeing 5-10% of their personal slaves and then > working the rest to death so that they don't have to pay the taxes > for them any more.... They can just register them for low values, and pay less taxes, why would they need to eliminate them? -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:26:28 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Darokin help wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I am about to send my PCs to Darokin. I do have a question though about the > Merchant Houses. In the gazatteer is says that for example Corun house is > located in Corunglain. Does this mean they only do business in Corunglain or > can do also do business in, for example, Selenica? I mean would they have > merchants there selling and buying stuff for them there? It means their headquarters are in Corunglain, and much of their businness is done from there, but they are free to open offices wherever they need. Internal traders like Pennydown (based in Darokin, IIRC), buy and sell stuff everywhere in the country, while some traders like the Ylari in Selenica (name?) do most of their business within one city, or with foreign countries. For a better picture of the house, there is the Darokin Merchant House article series by Aaron Nowack, at the official website, under geography->darokin. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:44:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Is there an addictive drug spread on the pages of DotE? How is it that > Thyatis and Alphatia can command such, um, enthusiasm from the list > regulars? [..] > I'm amazed that, at the drop of a hat, these sorts of discussions > can get going (and stay going) so easily. > What is the appeal of the two empires? I think it's more their natural opposition than their individual appeal, what makes people discuss over them. And the existance of many controversial issues in their canon presentation, due to the change of point of view starting with the CM modules and the VotPA, which became more of a reality change in later products. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:56:58 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: Karameikan Economy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/00 5:21:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, mr-dead@LEMMING-LAND.FSNET.CO.UK writes: > It does seem odd at first, but when you think about it, maybe not so. The > map shows that there are no major forest areas around Threshold so this > would suggest that the lumber is coming mainly from the mountains nearby. > This would also suggest that the wood found there would more than likely > fall into the "rare" catergory, and thus would be more expensive. With a > virtually free transport system (they send their logs down river), this > would make a good "export" trade for a town so far inland as Threshold (and > not forgetting a good way for Baron Halaran to pay his salt tax :) and ship > that "special little something" to the Duke :) ). Appreciate the responses, Beau, Phillip & Vini, each of your ideas were helpful and interesting/thought-provoking--they spawned the following: When the Duke took possession of Traladara, he made agreements with the Calarii elves and Highforge to cut no tree on their lands. In exchange, they made pacts promising troops for defense of the Duchy, if ever it was invaded. Kelvin's access to lumber thus became greatly limited and the town was forced to look elsewhere for its wood needs. The heavy goblinoid presence makes the Dymrak forest too impractical for logging and other options like the Radlebb, south of Calarii lands, were equally so mostly due to distance. So the new Baron Kelvin made arrangements with his friend Baron Halaran to have Threshold loggers supply Kelvin with lumber until a permanent solution could be found. Threshold did not at first have enough loggers to keep up with the new demand. But word spread quickly of good pay being offered loggers, and soon Threshold was providing much of Kelvin's wood needs (later some lumber would come from Penhaligon and logging camps up along the Highreach river). Buyers soon became fond of the fragrant wood from certain ever- greens that grow abundantly around Threshold (and are rare elsewhere in the Duchy). Meanwhile, general demand continued to grow and, after a time, spread to Specularum. Soon, logging provided a living to as many of Threshold's people as did fishing--a fifth of the populace. The quality of the wood provided, the ease of shipment, the reliability of the supply and the low price all combined to eventually win over wood-dealing merchants in the capitol. Now, all of them supplement their normal sources with Threshold lumber and turn a larger profit from the savings. The fragrant evergreen timbers from Threshold are especially popular in Specularum and always fetch a pretty price. Large groups of logs are sent downriver once a week on Tserdain so that they arrive on Lunadain 4 & 1/2 days later in Kelvin. The logs take about another six days to reach the capitol. Only every other shipment goes to Kelvin (to reduce the hazard to the heavy riverboat traffic going south); the alternate log groups are much larger and travel on to Specularum. As for the secret coin shipments inside logs, it was only a matter of time before somone close to Baron Halaran (Aleena to be exact) thought to ship newly-minted coins inside logs headed for the capitol. [It is also possible Karameikos does a fairly brisk trade in both quality woods and firewood with Thyatis due to the diminished timber resources there. If Thyatis uses coal (didn't ancient Rome?), then firewood demand may be small.] Thanks guys! ~Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:13:01 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Larry Lamb Subject: Re: Karameikan Economy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need to comment here. Thats grate! hehe... I dont know if you know of this but in the almanacks (sorry, cant spell :-)) have a section that talks about what gos where regarding traded goods from one kingdom to another. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:36:35 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Night dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Francisco V. Navarro wrote: > > They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. >=20 > It was discussed earlier that Night Dragon's are modified ruby = dragons, > probably corrupted by Atzanteotl. Is this from a canon source or from fan-based material? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:28:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Is there an addictive drug spread on the pages of DotE? How is = it that > Thyatis and Alphatia can command such, um, enthusiasm from the list > regulars? I don't have the boxed set -- I run games set in the = post-sinking > era, and I can wait for DotE to be a free/cheap download from the WotC = site > -- but I'm amazed that, at the drop of a hat, these sorts of = discussions > can get going (and stay going) so easily. I might suggest that the people who have chosen Thyatis/Alphatia as = their pet projects might be slightly...prone to these kinds of = discussions. While Mystara does have Glantri as a sort of wizard's paradise, not = everybody likes Glantri. Alphatia is more of the mysterious wizard's = paradise that is/was largely undetailed, and is/was a major power of = Mystara. Adopting Alphatia as your 'homeland' is appealing to some = people, perhaps because of: - That whole wizard thing; 'I just love playing a high-level wizard', = 'Alphatia has more wizards than any other nation and can therefore kick = their asses!'. - The size of Alphatia; there's plenty of space to detail, and Alphatia = has a huge population that can roll all over other nations. - Alphatia calls the shots; when the Alphatians get upset they can = mobilize a vast military and punish the offenders (not as true as it = used to be, apparently, as witnessed in WotI, but true Alphatian = sympathizers also has an excuse for that; Immortal intervention, and all = that). These reasons might not be why *you* (the reader) like Alphatia; feel = free to flame me if you're offended; I don't mind (or care). Thyatis, on the other hand, also appeals to some people. I can't say = that I can find any particular reasons; they might be along those same = lines, but likely Thyatis attracts a whole different crowd, who have = other sorts of concerns. Nevertheless, you're still welcome to flame me = if you like Thyatis; same applies as above. Anyway, fans of these two empires are naturally poised against each = other. Whenever the empires are mentioned together, it is in a situation = of conflict. And when they finally were detailed in DotE, they were both = in the same set, and certainly lined up against each other. This = conflict is unfortunately also adopted by fans of either empire. So we = have two groups of people, who are naturally inclined to defend their = favorite empire, and attack 'that other' empire. To further complicate the situation nearly every product that was = published after DotE seemed to mess things up. WotI finally brought a = direct conflict, one that was inconclusive, since Thyatis bowed out due = to Thincol having second thoughts about the whole matter, and suddenly = the Doomsday Weapon wiped out Alphatia (or so we thought). It could have = ended there. It should have ended there. Unfortunately the PWAs further = mess things up, bring back Alphatia in the Hollow World, and establishes = a new Alphatia on the outer world, both processes happen in ways that = are...strange. Meanwhile Thyatis copes with problems in ways that seem = uncharacteristic for that empire. Fans of either empire feel mistreated, are already inclined to argue = with each other, and the show is on. There are plenty of things to fight = over (I think we've all seen a lot by now), and since people love their = chosen setting, they do not admit defeat. This has been going on for a = while now, and I guess that most of the people participating in these = discussions, feel that they're doing their best to protect their setting = or are adamant that it is misportrayed, and should be altered. Thus, = whenever somebody critiques things pertaining to either nation, the = natural response seems to one of defense/offense. This, of course, = provokes the other side to respond in kind, and so on... Perhaps, you people don't agree with me, but this is how I see this = whole conflict, and also why I'm loath to enter these discussions = (though I still do at times, as you can see). Anyway, this was all for = the sake of Beau who, I hope, can use this for something... Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:43:47 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Is there an addictive drug spread on the pages of DotE? How is it that > Thyatis and Alphatia can command such, um, enthusiasm from the list > regulars? I don't have the boxed set -- I run games set in the post-sinking > era, and I can wait for DotE to be a free/cheap download from the WotC site > -- but I'm amazed that, at the drop of a hat, these sorts of discussions > can get going (and stay going) so easily. > What is the appeal of the two empires? > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ Of course there is! :) Everybody knows that all the pages of the DotE books are finely dusted in Essence of Zzonga. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:52:22 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Perhaps, you people don't agree with me, but this is how I see this whole conflict, and also why I'm loath to enter these discussions (though I still do at times, as you can see). Anyway, this was all for the sake of Beau who, I hope, can use this for something... > > Jacob Skytte I wonder what for, but I think you got more or less to the point...I could add something myself, but being not neutral party, I will think twice before expressing my ideas. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:43:20 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: George Hrabovsky Subject: Re: Night dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my campaign I allow the dragon to manipulate reality within the region of darkness from the breath weapon. They also practise shadow magic and can make magic items of shadow (like shadow-based listening and observation devices for clandestine spying). George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jacob Skytte" To: Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Night dragons Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Still plugging away at the VotPA print-outs -- reading it on the screen > just doesn't work for me -- and I noticed wild discrepencies between the > VotPA version of night dragons and how they're portrayed in GKoM. Yes, it would seem that the G:KoM team didn't want to include a full description of the new monster Night Dragon. They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. I would certainly go by the original description, though allowing for progress in wizard class and a damaging breath weapon would be nice too. > Also, I'm only up to the Princess Ark's arrival in Northern Davania and > the plant-centric kingdom there, but is what Synn was guarding back in > Oceania ever explained in more detail? Nope. Up to the DM. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:59:20 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum It might surprise people, but along with Caroletti I also agree with just about everything Jacob Skytte said. I have something to add to what he said, but nothing to contradict regarding what he said. First, to Gulio: >> I could add something myself, but being not neutral party, I will think twice before expressing my ideas. << Well, I think you should add whatever you want. Here's what I'll add: I think the reason these two places are discussed at length and with more varied views than other places also has to do with the fact that for the most part, for better or worse no one seriously disputes the fact that the Gazeteers for other Mystaran nations accurately represent what they're like. Sure, persons might handle, for example, Karameikos differently in their own campaign from how it's depicted in Gaz1, which is fine and good, but they don't dispute what Gaz1 says. For most Mystaran countries, the closest similar discrepancy is in how to handle the AD&D "Gaz's" (Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure and Glantri: Kingdom of Magic), because there is a question over whether they accurately depict what both places are like post-WotI (for Karameikos, for instance: where are the dominions of Alfheim elves created during Wrath? What about the Alphatian refugees other than Tylion/"Terari"? Similarly for G:KoM there are questions - for example, why are the rules for Radience depletion identical to those of Gaz3 if it's been switched to draining Entropy rather than Energy?) But these questionable points most people properly assume. . .hmmmn. .. how should I put this politely? I guess the best way to say it is that most people assume that the writers who did the transition of those Gazeteers to AD&D didn't do as thorough a job as they might have done, and missed some things. But, for better or worse, people don't really disagree that, for example, the Rockhome Gaz. depicts Rockhome with accuracy, or the Darokin Gaz. depicts Darokin accurately. Now, among those of us who played in it, there is a sort of "Mystaran Birthright Affect" - a PBeM game that colored our impressions of how some of these countries might *really* behave (for example, anyone who played in Mystaran Birthright has seen Darokin's Houses in action, and thus has kind of a different idea of how they'd behave in practice. . .btw, perhaps someday someone will start up another game of Mystaran Birthright). Anyhow, because of this broad agreement that, for better or worse the various Gazeteers make an accurate representation of the nation in question, posts about, say, Vestland or Ylaruam or Ethengar recieve much less attention - and what discussion that does ensue is usually fairly short and "developmentary" rather than "contradictory"; and, also for better or worse, it is controversy (disagreement) that tends to drive reactions. Now, for example, I might disagree about how Stefan is portrayed as a good ruler, and say, for example, that someone who cannot see evil in others isn't a good ruler (he makes bad appointments and takes bad advice and listens to bad advisors because of this *major* character flaw - Socrates and Plato and Aristotle would all agree with me that someone with this sort of character discrepancy might be a decent private man, but should never govern a nation); but I don't dispute that, for better or worse again, most things (except for that one Event in WotI)! ! depict Stefan as not only a nice guy but a good ruler as well (just to pick an example that isn't Alphatia or Thyatis). Anyhow, I've babbled long enough. That's what I'd add to what Jacob Skytte said, though. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:02:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Night dragons In-Reply-To: <00ed01c04207$2d318c00$b7f317d2@fanavarro> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Francisco V. Navarro wrote: > > They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. > > It was discussed earlier that Night Dragon's are modified ruby dragons, > probably corrupted by Atzanteotl. I suggest that any Dragon can become a Night Dragon if it choses to follow Entropy. This may or may not involve a ceremony of sublimination. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:03:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Darokin help wanted Mystara wrote: >> while some traders like the Ylari in Selenica (name?) do most of their business within one city, or with foreign countries. << Al-Azrad House; but even they probably have an office/depot in Darokin City (though probably not in, say, Corunglain or Akorros or Athenos and the like). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:06:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: [mystara3E] Ideas for Halfling Feats Comments: To: mystara3E@egroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 Kaviyd@aol.com wrote: > Denial: Beau Yarbrough already presented a fairly good presentation > of this feat. Here are some initial comments: > > > DENIAL [Special] > > Prerequisites: Halfling, > > No problem there. > > > resident in the Five Shires, > > Make that "Halfling homeland" for reasons already cited. So far only the > Five Shires and Leeha are officially documented. I think this is an excellent suggestion. Canon also suggest that a Hin Homeland exists or has existed in Davania. IMO, the final version of the Hin Master should read "Halfing Homeland" and then go on mentioning at least these three. I dont think the Merry Pirate lands qualify, and as there are no other Halfling lands described for the HW, no such lands are known to exist so far. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:22:40 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Night dragons In-Reply-To: <006501c0427f$bfa7d120$8b39abd0@tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, George Hrabovsky wrote: > In my campaign I allow the dragon to manipulate reality within the region of > darkness from the breath weapon. They also practise shadow magic and > can make magic items of shadow (like shadow-based listening and > observation devices for clandestine spying). Some pretty cool ideas you have there George, although the last power seems a bit over the top. I'd love to see some more detailed rules for all of this. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:28:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mystara=B4s?= Map Navigator In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Ricardo Matheus wrote: > Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) > > Nort 1 = Wendar/Glantri border to the city of Wendar > East 3 = Western part of the Northern Reaches (this one was hard) You forgot the URL: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ The maps are excellent. However, now 0.jpg (Glantri) has disappeared! H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:47:21 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Sword & Sorcery (long) Ok, well I guess I *will* disagree with some of this, mainly in the details. If you're not interested in the Alph/Thy part, you might want to read anyhow, since it gets into other issues. Jacob Skytte Wrote: >> - Alphatia calls the shots; when the Alphatians get upset they can mobilize a vast military and punish the offenders (not as true as it used to be, apparently, as witnessed in WotI, but true Alphatian sympathizers also has an excuse for that; Immortal intervention, and all that). << Immortal intervention mainly crippled the Thyatian military during the war. Alphatia had not so much a military power, but a magical power (thus appealing to Munckinism, I do agree with you on that); Thyatis stood counterpoised to that and its "historical role" (in a Hegelian sort of sense) was to form a barrier between the Alphatians and the Known World. Or, to paraphrase something Professor Eugen Weber said about Byzantium's historical role: "It is hardly an exaggeration to say that the civilization of the Old World is a byproduct of the will of the Thyatian Empire to survive. The simple feat of endurance it has performed, the historic function of Thyatis as a barrier against the invading hordes of Alphatia. Under the shelter of Thyatis's defense of its own eastern frontier, the rest of Brun could fashion its own life." One must remember, for example, that the Spike Assault, often invoked as an example of Alphatian might, was a humiliating defeat for them (they got to Thyatis City, but were repulsed from it, and beaten back on the Isle of Dawn until they sued for peace). Yes, in these struggles the Thyatian Empire might be the underdog - which, to me, is part of its appeal - but the Alphatian Empire is not able to simply sweep it away, because (primarily) of the stubborn resolve and resiliency of the Thyatian people, and because they're good at "Covert Ops" to put it that way (picture, for example, Alphatian Wizards as Bond-like villians, with lots of assets, trinkets, Moonraker ships, and the like. Into this comes a Thyatian Hero. . .) The Thyatians are outnumbered, but the Alphatians are inefficient. Thyatians have a sense of spirit and resolve that is much more heroic, IMO, than that of Alphatia (if you sign up to fight for Alphatia, fighting for the biggest kid on the block, and give it even more advantages over time, what's so heroic about kicking anyone's ass? If you're with Thyatis and - flawed "hero" though you may be - you and the RAF stand in the face of this "might" and oppose it, and fight it, even if only to a stalemate and standstill, well, which is more heroic? Your character with Alphatian Men-of-War rolling over everything in their path, or those who fight them and thwart such power, "never have so many owed so much to so few.") Also, there's a "spirit" that harkens back to the "good old days" of Sword & Sorcery, and many of us who came into the Fantasy/RPG genera during those days are still affected by it. Nowdays, in the wake of Elminster and all that, the Wizard is much more likely to be seen as the hero and protaganist; the Sorcery vs the Sword (I.E. Elminster and his buddies against Zhentil Keep), or even more commonly, the Sword aspect is forgotten all together and it's a "Sorcery and Sorcery" genre (The Seven Sisters vs the Red Lizards or the Twisted Rune). But some of us came into the genre in an earlier age - when Conan was the hero, Gandalf was sort of a side figure and the fighter & thief types had to do the job themselves, the focus of Arthurian epics was on the Knights (nowdays its on Merlin), &tc. Thincol really can be seen as a Conan figure (northern barbarian is captured and becomes a gladiator, wins his freedom and rises to the throne of the most powerful warrior-kingdom of his age, f! ! ighting in opposition to scheming, expansionistic Stygian Wizards). Now, back in the day, people still had respect for warriors as a class. I admit I like magic and mages as much as the next guy (or gal), but over time, partially as the result of the "FRization of gaming", what started as a mild imbalance in favor of Wizards at upper levels (high level Wizard opposed to high level Fighter) got exacerbated (high level OD&D Wizard had his advantages, but so did a high level Fighter - in saves and the like. If a high level Fighter could get close to the high level Wizard, it was all over. . .in the Fighter's favor). That changed, with various spells that can make the Wizard immune to the Fighter, but comparable offsetting advantages for the Fighter or disadvantages for the Wizard weren't in the offing (so that by late-2E AD&D, if the high level Fighter could get close to the high level Wizard, it was all over. . .in the Wizard's favor. The Fighter couldn't escape. Or thus many people portrayed it, though in various campaigns a more balanced appro! ! ach is taken. Still, among many Munchkin gamers, it is now simply "assumed" that a high level Wizard will clean up against any other class, even if their experience-point totals are equal, nothing can stand against the Wizard and nothing can harm him or her. Game balance? Well, that's one reason why we have 3E, to restore it. Lets hope they succeed, and keep game balance in mind as the line progresses). In no small part because of this (the process was already underway when DotE was published, though not nearly as far advanced as it got. One can see it progress in the Mystaran line of products, even; in DotE, skyships are nice toys, do give an advantage, but they aren't so uber that the RAF can't counter them - neither the Shark nor the Airship of Love, the two examples of such things, are over powered. By the VotPA, skyships grow gradually more powerful, though the Princess Ark, with its unique Thothian Enchantment, is seen as unique in its power. By CoM, that goes out the window, and ships more powerful than the Princess Ark - the Man-of-War - appear.) So now people simply assume that "the magical Empire" would wipe the floor with the "warrior Empire", clean it up easily and brush it out of the way, and the only way to counter that argument in a way that the "Magic Above All" faction finds even partially compelling is to point out that "Thyatis has magic too" - Wizards of i! ! ts own (Sclaras), and has highly developed Clerical magic, who might have a more highly developed sense of duty and patriotism than the notoriously chaotic Alphatian wizards (even in the DotE stage, the Thyatian magical prowess was specifically pointed out as being developed to cope with Alphatia's magical pussiance; but back then, we were still in an era where a tough Fighter could, if barely, be presumed to be able to hold his own against a powerful Wizard. But we were in the last days of that era, the last period of "Sword & Sorcery" fantasy before going completely into the "Sorcery & Sorcery" period). Some don't like the 3E rules, and I wasn't sure I would, either. But after reading them, they've grown on me. And one of the things I really like about them is that those involved made a concious effort to address the imbalance of classes, and insure that all classes were playable, balanced (roughly), had advantages and disadvantages, and could be compeditive at all levels of play. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:29:04 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Evil Genius >It may well be, and it sort of is - but it's no more over the top, IMO, than insisting that the Alphatians have Citizens (and, asside from one reference in JA, I can't recall the *Alphatians* ever refering to "Alphatian Citizens" - and indeed their references to "Citizenship" of any kind, I.E. in other countries, tend to drip with scorn over the very idea). Actually there are mentions of Alphatian citizens all over DotE, and also in PWA1, and possibly in WotI as well. It is used as a common noun representing any kind of Alphatian without distinction of class (as inhabitant, or person/people); not as a class as it is done in Thyatis. ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:36:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Hutaakan Valley HWR Part 1/4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001030010525.007b29f0@10.1.1.1> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII After months and months of delay, the project has finally reached end-stage. If you have any comments, questions or criticisms, feel free to email them to me off-(or on-)list. ----------- The Hutaakan Valley HWR by Mischa Gelman, Andrew Theisen, Matthew Wang and Haavard Faanes In this section: Geography Family Issues Justice Health Care Population Combat Social Status Clothing/Appearance Art Foreign Relations Diet Entertainment Festivities/Calendar Domestic Relations Geography (maps are available at http://dnd.starflung.com/maps.html, at the bottom of the page) Nestled between the World Spine Mountains and the Jaws of Ranivorus, the Valley of the Hutaaka is largely isolated from the rest of the Hollow World. Aside from the treacherous mountain passes, the only easy access to the region (sometimes known as the Valley of Dogs to outsiders) is via Lake Menkor. As the lake's only sailors are the occasional Nithian fishermen, visitors to the valley are rare. This, of course, is exactly how the inhabitants of the valley like it. Though the valley is named after their race, the hutaakans inhabit only a small portion of it. Early expeditions led to some development in various areas, but these sites were abandoned when Xyqata was formed as the central hub of Hutaakan civilization. The Hutaakans now make their home on the hilly peninsula that extends into Lake Menkor. The largest concentration of hutaakans is in the capitol city of Xyqata (pop. 20,000). A small settlement lies along the shores of the Bay of Ronkat, in a village known colloquially as "Lower Xyqata" (pop. 500). It is here that the hutaakan fishermen ply their trade, and where merchants travel south to Nithia. The hutaakans maintain an ambassadorial building in this village, where they greet and house foreign diplomats journeying to their valley. It is almost unheard of for any non-hutaakan to ever be allowed entrance to the city of Xyqata proper, with clerics of Pflarr often serving as exceptions to this rule. The pastures between Lower Xyqata and Xyqata are taken up by numerous farms and manors. Here, hutaakan workers till the land and raise their cattle. Several mines are worked by the hutaaka, yielding precious minerals and the metals that are used in the fabrication of their tools and weaponry. Hidden in the hills south of Xyqata is the Tower of Bytaxa (pop. 50). Here, specialty priests of Pflarr carry out their most sacred and secret rituals, and perform experiments to further their understanding of magic. To the north of the peninsula lay the lands of the allied lupin tribes. The lupins that inhabit these forests and hills are direct descendants of the original hutaakan transplants to the Hollow World. Their bloodlines are more pure and closely linked to the hutaakans than those of the lupins elsewhere in the valley. (DM Note: If using the lupin rules from Dragon Magazine #237, treat these northern lupins as if from the Nithian Rambler breed). Nearly as civilized as their hutaakan cousins, the northern lupins live in small settlements of 5-40 lupins (5d8). Though capable of forging metal weapons and armor like the hutaaka, they generally do not have access to the proper raw materials, and instead tend to use bone, stone, and wooden tools and implements. They maintain a semi-nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle, migrating between two or three small campsites seasonally. In the past, they have occasionally come into conflict with the hutaakans, but it is rare that more than one or two tribes band together, and the hutaakans rout them with little trouble. There are a few permanent settlements in these lands, however. Hutaakan priests, bringing the word of Pflarr to their "lesser" kin, built several mission houses in the lupin lands. Gradually, families of lupins built houses and farms around these missions, becoming increasingly like the hutaakans in many ways. The hutaakans carry on trade with these settlements, as do the nomadic lupin tribes. More recently, the hutaakans have begun to teach the lupins to work more effectively as a military force, that they might assist with the gnollish threat. Given the lack of a military tradition among the hutaakans, such teachings are of limited use and more patronizing than practical. Tykal (pop. 750) is the oldest of the mission house settlements. A coal mine was recently discovered in the hills near this village, which has raised its significance in the eyes of many. Some more militant hutaakans are lobbying for increased fortification and settlement in and around this village. Qatak (pop. 301) and Hraxyt (pop. 424) were founded within two years of one another, during a period of fervent religious ambition. The northern lupin tribes were seen as increasingly belligerent, and that the word of Pflarr was needed to bring them in line. Today, the mission house at Qatak maintains only two hutaakan priests at any time. It is considered a mark of shame to be assigned to the mission here. The village of Hraxyt, by contrast, has boomed into a trading village, shipping goods between the capital and the tribes of the north. The gnoll threat to the west has only increased the significance of this settlement, which provides many necessary supplies to the village of Roqat (pop. 132). Founded in 996 AC, Roqat was meant to be the first line of defense against any gnollish attack from the western hills. It is still a small frontier village, and the missionaries find the lupins difficult to work with (some argue that the distance from their hutaakan forebears has lessened their ties). Hutaakan priests and workers assigned to operate in this village are given extensive combat training. Where the Tylaxu River empties into Lake Menkor is a place of low swamps. Muggy, wet, and treacherous, they are largely uninhabited, though a few lupin tribes call them home. These lupins are nomadic fishermen, and appear to have little regard for the ways of Pflarr, so the hutaakans ignore them. A mysterious obelisk rests in the center of Menkat Swamp. It is some twenty five feet tall, every inch covered in mysterious runes that defy all attempts to decipher them. The swamp lupins often leave offerings around the obelisk, believing they will bring the favor of the Immortals. The village of Kraqal (pop. 82) lies just south of the swamplands. Another recently founded mission (1002 AC), it faces many of the same problems as Roqat in the north. As the lupins south of the Tylaxu River are descended from lupin tribes transplanted from the outer world, and are not closely linked with the hutaakan bloodlines at all, it has been even more difficult to bring the Word of Pflarr to them, and to get them to change their nomadic ways. As the lowlands begin to rise, they quickly turn into the steaming expanses of the Qlarri Jungle. Hundreds of tribes of lupins wander these jungles. Around 500 AC, as the lupin tribes of the Savage Coast began to adopt more sedentary lifeways, large groups of them were transplanted to the Valley of the Dogs that their original culture might be preserved. They were placed here, in the jungles and hills south of the Tylaxu River, where they have gradually expanded to fill the region. [DM Note: If using the lupin rules from Dragon Magazine #237, these tribes are mostly of the Nomad breeds (Long-Runners and Borzoi), though there may be several types of other breeds here as well as new species). A few ruined structures stand in the central jungle. The ruins of Zkraq are an ancient hutaakan settlement that fell under mysterious circumstances several centuries ago. Rumor varies as to precisely what happened, but some hutaakan scholars may be able to tell the true tale. The unnamed ruins to the south of Lake Duqak predate the hutaakan presence in the valley. They are made of an unknown silvery building material. The hills to the west of the lake are home to a tribe of manticores. The southern lupin tribes often come into conflict with the valley's most recent transplants, the Gnollheim gnolls. As settlers from Vestland and Ostland began to civilize the southern hills of the Northern Reaches (in the outer world) and as the Nordhartar Defense League was established, the gnollish inhabitants were increasingly driven out of their former habitats. In response to this threat, as well as to further his own ambitions within the Hollow World, Ranivorus transferred several clans of gnolls to the hilly regions of the Valley of the Dogs in 988 AC. This also allowed him to more easily extract revenge against his long-time enemy, Pflarr. As the gnolls were placed within striking distance of both Nithian and Hutaakan lands, Ranivorus had followers near both lands favored by his rival. They proceeded to expand their territory in the unclaimed (and inhospitable) hills, avoiding only the treacherous craggy valley of the Wulven. They live in clans of 20-60 individuals (3d20), of which almost a third are warriors. They are mostly nomadic, though the largest clans have founded semi-permanent encampments in which they live for several seasons of the year (marked by the camp icons on the maps.) They live primarily as shepherds, though they occasionally raid other clans and the lupins. They are fond of slave labor. They are unable to work iron, though they do possess some iron weapons and armor (stolen or traded for, or remnants of their Outer World stay). Mostly they wear primitive leather and hides, and use crude stone and wooden tools. The gnolls' arrival was largely unheralded by the hutaakans, at least until a few short years ago. At that time, several of the southern gnollish clans began to ally themselves in an unprecedented manner. They constructed a large fort in the shadow of the Jaws of Ranivorus, and began seriously raiding the lupins of the southern jungles. At least one raid reached the village of Kraqal before being the raiding party turned back to their base. The hutaakans are very concerned with this new threat, not the least due to the fact that they seem to be very well armed and organized- evidence (such as the make of the gnolls' weapons) points to Nithian influence, but the hutaakans are not as yet sure what interest Nithians might have in the valley. The lupins and hutaakans are not the gnolls' only targets- they have been pressuring the western and northern gnollish clans to join their alliance. The southern gnolls (who are, in fact, being aided by human priests of Ranivorus working from a secluded valley in the mountains) foresee a day when they will rule the entire valley; the northern and western gnolls despise their cousins for their weakness in allying with humans. Nevertheless, the better armed gnollish alliance seems to be gaining support. All of the inhabitants of the valley shun the valley of the Wulven. It is a broken, barren land, where old and weak thunder lizards go to die. Bodies of the creatures litter the valley, providing food and shelter to the valley's only other denizens, the Wulven. These brutish, vicious creatures are terrible enemies, but fortunately they rarely leave their homes. For more information on the cause of this situation, see http://dnd.starflung.com/dresh.html Family Issues/Gender/Age As explained in the Hollow World boxed set, the hutaakans are a meritocracy, with the genders being equally divided between the different societal roles. Both parents are expected to help raise the young, and grandparents (and great-grandparents, if living and able) also lend a hand. Priests are also accepted as unofficial members of each family - they have the ability to give a child an order and overrule the pup's parents. This is rare, but not an unknown occurrence. Hutaakans may marry for life, but multiple marriages and divorces are very common. This is often a cause for internal conflict, with the priests stepping in to mediate, but is an accepted fact of life and divorcees will often still remain friends. Marriage is done for reasons of convenience, romance, lust, companionship, all kinds of reasons - and can end for even more reasons. The process of both marriage and divorce is a fairly simple affair, with the clerics presiding. It is not comparable to most human marriage ceremonies, which are grand affairs oftentimes, or lengthy divorces fraught with tension and dispute. The elderly are to be granted respect, for their contributions to society and for all the knowledge they have gotten. Dementia is not unknown among the hutaakans, and physical disabilities are fairly common in old age for this fragile species. Those who are so inflicted are cared for by family and church, but they lose the respect granted to other hutaakan elders who are able to carry out all their activities of daily living. It is commonly accepted that Pflarr will claim a life when its time is up, but the process is not be rushed in any way. Death while fighting for some heroic ideal, the goal of Antalians or Children of the Tiger, is utterly a foreign concept to the hutaakans, with one exception - they will fight ruthlessly to preserve a relic or temple of Pflarr. Hutaakans are both cremated and buried - neither method is favored. Mimicking the Nithian culture their creator was familiar with, some are mummified - usually this honor is reserved for priests. Hutaakans live to about 85 at the oldest, with aging similar to humans - childhood lasts till around age 10 or 11, hutaakans begin their trade of choice, get married and start other adult paths around age 20 and are seen as elderly by approximately ages 60-65. Justice Justice is conducted by all three strata of society. Any hutaakan accused of a criminal deed is bought before a tribunal for judgement. The tribunal consists of 3 laborers (picked in a manner eerily similar to American jury duty selection), one functionary who must have at least a skill of 10 in Codes of Law and Justice and one shaman (preferrably at least level 3). The functionary does the questioning of all parties involved and any witnesses to the scene, then the tribunal conducts a brief prayer session. After this, the tribunal consults for a brief period, then they issue the judgement. Punishments are not set according to the crime, but rather vary a good deal, depending on the judgement issued at the trial. One exception is that any cleric convicted of a serious crime (as judged by the tribunal) is exiled from the land and has their powers removed by Pflarr. There are no police as such, though all Hutaakans may be called upon to catch a law-breaker. On a related note, any Hutaakans in the area are called upon to deal with fires and other disasters - no individuals are trained specifically in those regards or deal exclusively with those situations. Health care The clerics of Pflarr are responsible for all health care. Level 1 shamans function as orderlies, level 2 or 3 shamans tend to minor or moderate injuries and level 4 or higher shamans deal with the serious cases. Obviously, the same level of care cannot be provided in times of a national disaster or warfare, but this is the ideal level hoped for. There are no charges for service, as this is one of the deeds demanded of any priest or priestess of Pflarr. There are also thankfully no middlemen in the form of insurance companies or HMOs to bitch about, making the situation much less stressful than in the United States in the year 2000 CE. The lack of access to the strongest healing magics due to level limitations is not a serious concern, as Hutaakans have so few HP that a cure serious wounds is far more powerful than it is among neighboring nations. Population The Hutaakan population has remained fairly low, despite the lack of conflict, due to a very low birth rate. Being magical creations rather than natural beings originally, their blood is weaker than that of many races, and as such they tend to have few children and a fair number of mutations. They also tend to only give birth once in a lifetime, though generally to a litter of two. This mutation trend led in the Outer World to the arrival of the lupin, and a similar process has taken place in the Hollow World, which has slowed but not extinguished the trend - the original race must be preserved, but its tendency to mutate must be preserved too. Lupin are seen as descending from those with the weakest blood, while priests are often seen as having strong levels of hutaakan blood, as they are closest to Pflarr and thus to Pflarr's original creation and intent. Those who are not purebred are often exiled outside the valley. Combat The hutaakans are not violent beings, but will fight if backed into a corner or if there is no alternative. All receive basic training in some weapon, but few achieve even a "skilled" level of weapon proficiency in one weapon. Should they face a major aggressor, they are likely to fall back on hit-and-run tactics rather than direct confrontation. There is no military arrangement in place, though a crude semblance could be pieced together, given the bureaucratic and orderly nature of hutaakan society. This is partially a factor of their inherent cultural tendency against warfare, while also being a factor of their environment, as there are no threats, nor have there been any major ones in their years in the Hollow World. Should an invader attack their lands, they could well be at the mercy of any numerous or powerful foe. Many hutaakans are trained in the basics of weapon usage (the equivalent of basic proficiency in one weapon) but it is not a universal practice and few develop their skills beyond this stage. The foot-pad lizards could be used as mounts for a cavalry unit, should a military be developed, but few are trained for battle - while the lizards are aggressive, it would go against the stability of the Hollow World cultures for them to develop large forces on lizard-back. A few adventurous souls, especially those who visit among the Krugel or Jennites, may imitate those nations though. Hutaakans also lack a worship of adventurous types, which leads few to exit the valley and develop their combat skills. Few natural pests roam their land and there are no major enemies among the nations of the Hollow World - little internal conflict adds to the inexperience of melee fighting among most Hutaakans. The new gnollish threat does present some concern, but so far no efforts have been mount to contain it - it just isn't Hutaakan nature. Unless some adventurers arise to quench the threat, it may threaten their civilization. Social Status The social hierarchy is outlined pretty plainly in the Hollow World sourcebooks and most Hutaakans readily accept this system. Some of those at the bottom of the totem pole, though, have raised their voices against this class system. This group has also been highly critical of the religious basis for Hutaakan society - they wonder why Pflarr asks so much of them, and gives so little in return. Instead, they favor a quasi-atheistic approach, realizing the power of the immortals but refusing to worship them. Membership in this organization is growing, and some officials are considering banning such a seditious group. The organizers behind the workers play on the instinctive haughtiness of the Hutaakans to demand that they get more power - why must they do all the hard work and get little of the comforts? The possibility of armed conflict may even arise, though it has not yet. PCs may wind up on either side of things, or in the middle, trying to mediate and organize a peaceful end before the argument gets blown out of proportion. Clothing/Appearance Hutaakans do not think too highly of fashion for the sake of fashion, favoring pragmatic clothing. Still, the Hutaakans do like eye-catching wears;trends in designs are non-existent, especially in the Hollow World. Brightness of color is the primary thing sought after in clothing. Dyes are accumulated from numerous sources, especially from some fish in the Tylaxu River which no longer exist in the outer world. Very fancy dyes often come from extremely rare plants or monsters - tracking them down will win a PC a great reward from a tailor. Art The Hutaakan culture accepts art as a key part of life. Much artwork is dedicated to Pflarr, in order to further the glory of their creator. Architecture is an art mix of various cultural influences - Roman-style arches and fountains co-exist alongside domed structures, even a rare Nithian pyramid alongside fairly common Traldaran stone houses and statues. Nithian mud-houses exist in the countryside in addition to the Traldaran buildings. Finally, hieroglyphics are not just writing, but rather yet another indication of artistic talent. Priestly documents often have such hieroglyphics, making them more recognizable to the eyes of those who cannot read the Nithian/Hutaakan languages. Foreign Relations The only real relations are with the Nithians, who are viewed as inferiors, though at least well-meaning, unlike other humans and non-humans, whose motives may be impugned. At the same time, the Nithians greatly respect the Hutaakans, which further encourages the arrogance and ethnocentrism that they display in their relations with others. Diet The hutaakan diet shows, like much of their culture, some of their Nithian roots. The foods listed on pg 44 and 45 of the Nithian HWR compose the menu from which the hutaakans select their eats, with few variations. Cooking is not a skill they have advanced very far with, and as such, there is no distinctive hutaakan cuisine. Entertainment The hutaakans do not look on pleasure like most other cultures. To them, learning and serving Pflarr are the sole sources of joy, and there are as a result few to no 'leisure' activities for them to bide their time. They view the presence of such elements in other cultures as a waste of precious life, using it on trivial elements than what's important in the world. Festivities/Calendar The Hutaakans do not use any calendar. Instead, the priests announce when a festival has arrived - it is entrusted that they know the correct times and dates for such occurrences. The most common event is a monthly celebration, which at one time marked the half moon, as this was the lunar stage when the Hutaakans were created by Pflarr. This original reason has been forgotten over time (especially since Hutaakans would now have trouble conceiving of what a half-moon is) and the occasion has become a highly transcendental one, where one is supposed to reach their maximal spiritual plane. It is a highly individual affair, with each Hutaakan supposed to find this point on their own. Meditation, prayer and other isolated activities are the key here. The date of arrival in the Hollow World is now (falsely) recalled as the day of creation and is the major event of each circle. At this time, too, tribute is paid to Pflarr for placing a higher form of life into a world dominated by savage humans. All Hutaakans must gather at their local temple, to hear the retelling of this time from the local priests. The Hutaakans also have a harvest festival, which is one of the rare moments where religion does not predominate Hutaakan life. Thanks is given to Pflarr for the foods, but it is generally a time to celebrate in a manner most un-transcendental and worldly - eat, drink and be merry seems to be the philosophy at these festivals. Domestic Relations Given the central location of most Hutaakans, the lack of other cities and the common view of the race, there is little internal strife. That conflict which does exist in the nation is between the gnolls, lupins and the hutaakans and rarely among the hutaakans themselves. The rising "class warfare" mentality may result in quite a break from domestic tranquility, though. ------------ - Mischa One prominent pastor visited a large church and concluded his politically charged sermon with these words: "Thank G-d, we don't have any liberals or feminists here today." Those liberals and feminists would have been friends of Jesus. He would have been less likely to invite the religious plutocrats to dinner. - conservative writer Cal Thomas ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Hutaakan Valley HWR Part 2/4 In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here's part two. Enjoy! - Mischa What happens to the mind of a person, and the moral fabric of a nation, that accepts the aborting of a life of a baby without a pang of conscience? What kind of a person, and what kind of a society, will we have 20 years hence if life can be taken so casually? - Rev. Jesse Jackson, 1977 -------------- In this section: Religion Work Etiquette Errata Religion The worship of Pflarr is the central aspect of the life of almost every Hutaakan. Combined with their fervent devotion to the being who gave them existence and allows them to survive to the present day is the organization-loving aspect of their culture, wherein structure is a central element. This blend allows for one of the most theocratic cultures of the Mystaran world, moreso even than the Ylari or Azcans. It is of much help obviously that unlike the Azcans, they do not use force in the name of their deity but rather center around books, learning and mysticism for a more truly theistic society. In fact, the temples are the center of all Hutaakan learning and education. Following in the pawsteps of Pflarr, they strongly advocate for increased knowledge. Spending time in the temples for study is a pursuit of most Hutaakans, and the temples house a good deal of knowledge, both religious and (though a good deal rarer among the Hutaakans) secular. The great temple is one of the largest libraries of Mystara and certainly of the Hollow World. Quite a number of texts on magical theory are present and Lighthouse scholars often drop by, though visiting magi are rare, as they do not expect to find such gems of knowledge among non-human temples (which the wizards often deride as pagan ritual and superstition devoid of substance). In addition to the visiting Lighthouse scholars, many Hutaakans go to the Lighthouse, and their representation per capita there is among the highest of all the Hollow World denizens. The Hutaakans are not divided into separate clans. Since religion is at the heart of the Hutaakan world, so too is the temple at the heart of the Hutaakan culture. All organization is done around the priesthood - the temple was at the center of their Lost Valley homeland, and is again central in their new residence in the Hollow World. The high priest of Pflarr runs the country. The next in rank are the other 8th level shamans, in order of seniority and ability, and downward from there. The few outlying areas where Huttaakans reside are also run by priests, who get their orders from the central temple (messages are delivered by foot-pad lizard riders, who unlike most Hutaakans generally are skilled with a weapon, as they are on the rode alone. Being a courier is a glamorous [if tough] role for the laborers among the Hutaakans, putting them on par with the middle-range functionaries). The high priest(ess) has practically total control over the whole nation, but so far the track record has been one of shamans equally committed to the people, truly acting in the best interests of Pflarr and the denizens of the valley, rather than for their own honor and self-interest. There are specialty shamans to Pflarr among the Hutaakans, even more devoted than most (in other words, every waking moment is meant to consecrate the service of Pflarr). They get the abilities listed in HWR2, pg 14-15, namely magic-user spells, the read magic ability, the Javelin of Pflarr [which reaches d10+1 at level 8 and doesn't advance further], limited saving throws and responsibilities to protect and study magic, use magical defenses and destroy gnolls. They are very closely bonded to their fellow Nithian specialty priests. Should either branch of the priesthood call on the other, they will travel to the other country and assist them in their battles. Currently, both groups may soon be using this authority, with the rising influence of the chaotic forces in Nithia and the gnoll arrival in the Hutaakan Valley. The specialty shamans of Pflarr have been at the forefront of pointing out the danger the gnolls present. Another variant class among the Hutaakans are the Spellmasters. These are magi who devote their attentions to the special wishes of Pflarr - as a result they get some of the same benefits and hindrances of specialty shamans of Pflarr. Unlike Hutaakan wokani, who max out at 4th level, they can advance to 8th level. Also, unlike wokani, they have access to the full spell list of a Hollow World magic-user - and more, as the Spellmasters have devised some spells unknown among other cultures, or even Hutaakan wokani. Their specialty in understanding spell mechanics grants them a +3 to saves vs. spells. On the other hand, they suffer a -1 to hit points, leaving them with only d4-1 per level (before Constitution), making them very limited physically. They must spend 3 months of the year in research in the main temple of Xyqata. Like the specialty shamans, their saving throws do not advance with time. In addition, they are limited to the weaponry of a wokan (dagger, staff and sling only) and require twice as many XP per level as a regular Hutaakan - so 2400 for level two, 4800 for level three, 9600 for level four, etc. Finally, they must take Magical Engineering in addition to Mysticism. Work The Hutaakans place a good deal of emphasis on one's ability to work, and on one's competence at their occupation. There is little reward for a hard worker, though, as this is precisely what society expects of you - hence some workers feel unappreciated, leading to the sentiments that allow the critics of the current system to arise. Compensation is not tied evenly to the amount of work - most of the wealth goes to the priesthood, and a good bit of the remainder goes to the functionaries, leaving little for the workers, under an unbalanced distribution system. Few go so far as to question the culture, though, especially given the effects of the Hollow World - most are content to work hard without little credit. Also, some fields are given far greater respect than others - a priest will always be treated better than a functionary or a laborer, a functionary from the temple will generally be treated better than a functionary who works away from the city and a laborer who serves as a lizard rider/courier will be treated better than a ditch-digger. Equality is not part of the Hutaakan traditions. All work revolves around the worship of Pflarr and is seen as deriving its purpose from the immortal. Those who do not work hard or who question the social system which rewards some jobs more are thus often seen as opponents of the deity's desires, making them targets of suspicion - after all, why should one trust those who disrespect Pflarr? A merchant, then, only gains admiration if he deals in goods that help honor Pflarr - so a seller of theological texts will be given greater respect than a baker. Middlemen are frowned upon, as they do little productive - as a result there is little bureaucracy in the economic sector, and a good number of small businessmen and women. Adventurers similarly only gain honor by supporting the right causes - ridding the dinosaurs from an area to allow for a temple to Pflarr would bring a good deal of acclaim. Adventures into distant lands for the sole purpose of self-enrichment and power gain result merely in scorn, as they are seen as an utter waste of time. We could go on, but hopefully you get the gist - respect is derived solely from how much you further the path of the Hutaakan creator, creating different social strata than in other cultures. Etiquette Proper behaviors and rituals are an essential element of Hutaakan society. When foreigners fail to proper through with the right action in a given circumstance, it leads to a strengthening of the Hutaakan conclusion that foreigners are ignorant and lesser beings. Many of the rules of manners are set forward by the codes of Pflarr, and others were instituted at various points of the Outer World existence of the Hutaakans. For instance, the proper blessings must be said before eating, in the proper position, with the proper intonation, by the proper individual...and of course the individual, the prayer (and manner of enunciating it) and position differ for different foods. DMs are free to create whatever mannerisms they wish (or none at all) to bring home the point that doing things the "right" way is important for Hutaakan citizens. An example of the right etiquette: It is customary for neighbors to give a gift a week after the 23rd birthday. This gift must be hand-crafted and be small enough to fit in one hand. If the gift is intended for a male, it is brown in color, and green in color if for a female. It should be given with the left hand, and received with the right. This commemorates Pflarr's entrusting the land to the Hutaakans once they had shown enough maturity to watch after it. Errata The various Mystaran materials, as is often the case, contradict each other often. B10 and the creature catalogues mention infravision, and the Hollow World books do not. B10 and the Hollow World books mention a move silent ability, but the creature catalogues don't. The Hollow World books also allow progression only to level 8, while the creature catalogues allow level 11 for shamans. The Hollow World book even contradicts itself by listing different languages spoken by the Hutaakans, on separate pages. The DM, as always, has the final say as to which canon source is, well, canon. If one wishes to allow level 9-11 shamans, it is suggested that a process similar to that of PC3 (pg. 38) is used - that is, seeking to advance beyond 8th level is rare and could cause harm for the shaman themselves. The PC2 rules can just as easily be substituted - XP losses, accompanied by a limited chance of advancement. Throughout the HWR, the terms "Hutaakan" and "hutaakan" are used someone interchangeably. The two can be used differently, with the latter identifying the race and the former the nationality - we did not feel it was a major issue so freely alternated. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:43:57 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. Mystara wrote: > From: Evil Genius >It may well be, and it sort of is - but it's no more over the top, IMO, than insisting that the Alphatians have Citizens (and, asside from one reference in JA, I can't recall the *Alphatians* ever refering to "Alphatian Citizens" - and indeed their references to "Citizenship" of any kind, I.E. in other countries, tend to drip with scorn over the very idea). << >> Actually there are mentions of Alphatian citizens all over DotE, and also in PWA1, and possibly in WotI as well. It is used as a common noun representing any kind of Alphatian without distinction of class (as inhabitant, or person/people); not as a class as it is done in Thyatis. << I stand by what I said, though, which is that I can't recall *Alphatians* ever refering to "Alphatian Citizens" - indeed, the one time that I said I did recall them refering to "Alphatian Citizens" (in JA), actually turns out to have been in the "voice" of a Minrothaddian (supposedly written by Elidor Murtagh - though, suspiciously, it doesn't have the same feel & sound of the rest of Murtagh's writtings. I suspect the hidden hand of the Alphatian Ministry of Veracity (MiniVer) at work here.) As for the others, yah; those are sloppy misusages where the word "Subjects" would have been more apt & accurate. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:47:11 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Hutaakan Valley HWR Part 3/4 In-Reply-To: <005d01c04264$a6c27ae0$06dc61d4@skytte> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I just noticed I tended to use the word "existence" a fair amount in my sections. I hope this habit doesn't get on any one's nerves. - Mischa One prominent pastor visited a large church and concluded his politically charged sermon with these words: "Thank G-d, we don't have any liberals or feminists here today." Those liberals and feminists would have been friends of Jesus. He would have been less likely to invite the religious plutocrats to dinner. - conservative writer Cal Thomas ----------- In this section: NPC Samples New Spell New Monster NPC Samples Kfitiqa History: Kfitiqa was born 22 cycles ago in Xyqata itself. She was accepted into the ranks of the bureaucrats at age 19 and is still adjusting to independent life, which she finds a bit lonely; she has been unable to yet find a male Hutaakan who interests her enough to spend her life with. She is in the fairly stable position of scribe and may not advance much further in life, but she is satisfied with the job at the present time, as it helps serve Pflarr by saving the priests and priestesses the time to write. Personality: Kfitiqa is a loyal servant of Pflarr, going about her work, but it doesn't thrill her. She is somewhat bored by her life, somewhat confused by it and just sometimes wishes Pflarr would help her by giving her a bit more to be thankful for. Such heretical thoughts don't cross her mind often, but they may increase with the cycles ahead. She doesn't deal well with change, though, preferring the same old-same old. Appearance: Kfitiqa is of pretty plain appearance, which isn't helped by the drab functionary outfits. She is somewhat on the tall and thin side and considers herself gawky. Combat Notes: She is a 1st-level Hutaakan. AC 8; hp 2; at 1; D 1-4 (dagger), save C1; ML 6; Al N; S 10, I 11, W 10, D 10, Co 10, Ch 8. Languages: Hutaakan, Nithian, Neathar, Orc, Gnoll, Neutral. General Skills: Mysticism (W), Modern Hieroglyphics (I +1), one unspent skill slot. DM Notes: There are all kinds of uses for even a simple functionary. Perhaps Kfitiqa comes across a text which seems to prophesize the coming of the gnolls and that Hutaakan civilization is doomed unless a certain quest is undertaken. Perhaps she gets so fed up with her work that she sets the library on fire. Perhaps she falls for a "mr. perfect" among the PCs, who she believes will solve all the problems of her boring existence. Perhaps she is seen as Lighthouse material by a PC affiliated with that group, and asked to join. Perhaps a sister joins the priesthood, causing a jealous attack orchestrated by Kfitiqa. The possibilities are, as always, endless. Jasiteq History: Jasiteq was born...well, no one really remembers. Pflarr knows it's been a good number of years! Even Jasiteq isn't quite sure how old he is. He never married and any relatives are long dead. He no longer does much of anything, though at one time he was fairly active in the priesthood. He still performs some priestly tasks and rituals, but mostly he is forgotten by all, as he spends his time in his tiny stone hovel. Jasiteq traveled a good deal in his priestly duties when he was younger, even to Nithian lands, where he associated a fair amount with the specialty priests of Pflarr there, and gained knowledge about the chaotic priesthoods as well. He is very familiar with the monsters of the Nithian deserts, human and otherwise, and has a sharp memory, despite his years. Personality: Jasiteq is resigned to his quiet life, after a long and fruitful existence. He is concerned about the recent presence of the gnolls, and sees the hand of Ranviorus and Thanatos at work. He has no one who would listen to him though, to gain his knowledge about those cults and their weaknesses. Appearance: Jasiteq is old and wrinkled and his fur has grayed with age, which is unusual even among the elderly of Hutaaka. He is somewhat stooped over, but still of moderate height, and he has watched what muscle he had turn to fat. His eye-sight is not as strong as it once was, and he uses a cane to get about. Combat: He is an 8th-level Hutaakan specialty shaman of Pflarr. AC 10 (DEX penalty); hp 15; at 1; D 1-6 - 2 (staff, strength penalty) or 1-10+1 (Javelin of Pflarr); save C1 (+2 vs. spells); ML 12; Al N; S 5, I 12, W 16, D 4, Co 8, Ch 9. Languages: Gnoll, Nithian, Neathar, Hutaaka, Orc, Neutral. General Skills: Honor Pflarr (W+2), Knowledge (Nithian theology) (I+1), Knowledge (Hutaakan theology) (I), Nature Lore (Desert) (I), Knowledge (Gnollish culture) (I). Spells: 3/3/2/1. DM Notes: Jasiteq is obviously a great source of information, should the PCs manage to find that out. Perhaps they can travel to Nithia to try to discover the reason behind the gnollish menace, only to find out that they need travel back to the street they started from to get to the proper informant. Jasiteq is unlikely to adventure at his age, but will defend his home, should the violence reach it, and can lend advice. Magic Items: Jasiteq still has some of the items acquired during his adventuring days, but does not carry them about with him. PC visitors to his home may come across several useful devices that could assist them in their goals, which Jasiteq is willing to give to those who prove their commitment to Pflarr. Harek the Flayhand, chief of the Hoary Rock clan. History: At 25 years of age, Harek is just about to enter into his middle years. Having spent most of his young adult life clawing and whipping his way to chieftainship, he'd like to be able to live out the rest of his days comfortably, having his clansmen do all his bidding. Unfortunately, the recent arrival of the Nithian priests is interfering with his plans. In Harek's view, the humans are outsiders, and have no business meddling with the ways of the gnollish clans, and he refuses to ally his clan with them. Harek personally flayed the previous shaman of the Hoary Rock clan to death when he attempted to convince his chieftain that cooperation with the Nithians was Ranivorus' will. As a result of Harek's stance, the Hoary Rock clan is at war with several other gnollish clans. Fortunately for Harek, they are not alone. Personality: Harek is a typical gnoll- territorial, aggressive, and domineering. He has overcome several personal difficulties to become the chieftain of his clan, and had begun to turn them around and become one of the more successful gnollish clans in the valley prior to the humans' arrival. He hates the Hutaaka and the Lupins of the valley, but he also despises the humans, and will refuse to cooperate with them unless his situation becomes totally untenable. Appearance: Harek stands 7' 3 inches tall, and has a lean build. To his shame, he has never been able to grow the traditional gnollish mowhawk; instead, a long strip of white fur runs down the middle of his head and along his back. He earned his nickname due to his tendency to whip anyone who comments on his misfortune. Combat Notes: Gnoll 9. AC 6 (Dexterity bonus); hp 58; MV 90' (30'); #AT 1 whip or hand axe; D 1d2 (whip) or 1d6+2 (hand axe and strength bonus); Save F8; ML 8; AL C; S 16, I 10, W 9, D 11, Co 15, Ch 16. Languages: Gnollish (Gnollheim Dialect). Skills: Bravery (W), Intimidation (S), Snares (I), Storytelling (Ch), Leadership (Ch), Drinking (Co). DM Notes: An encounter with Harek and his clan can be a very interesting one. Though Harek despises all outsiders, he may be convinced to spare the lives of anyone he captures if it is in his best interests. He would also be a good gnoll to approach on a diplomatic level, perhaps by Hutaakan PCs seeking to gain allies against the Nithian priests and their gnollish minions in the valley. Be warned, though, that once their mutual interests are accomplished, Harek will turn on his new allies in a second. Baqateq History: Baqateq is 44 cycles old and has resided her entire life in Xyqata. She is a construction worker, and has been one her whole life, working to expand upon the city and repair damaged structures. She was married at age 22, divorced at 24, married at 28, divorced at 31, married at 36 and divorced at 40. She is the mother of one daughter, from her second marriage, who she spends her time tending to, when not at work. Personality: Baqateq cannot understand the recent murmurs and complaints about the Hutaakan caste system, and is very happy where she is. She wishes she had a bit more luck in relationships, but 3 marriages is not rare among the Hutaakans, and she is still seeking out a good husband. She is a devoted mom, and a hard and devoted worker. She is easy to get along with, except when someone tries to push off some of that revolutionary propaganda on her. Appearance: Baqateq is a tad on the short and chubby side by Hutaakan standards, and is starting to develop some grey hairs and wrinkles in her light red fur. She dresses in plainer colors than many workers, as fine clothes easily get ruined in the construction business. Combat Notes: She is a 2nd-level Hutaakan. AC 8; hp 8; at 0; d 0; save C2; ML 9 (11 when protecting her daughter); Al N; S 10, I 12, W 12, D 11, Co 14, Ch 12. Languages: Hutaaka, Neutral, Neathar, Nithian, Orc, Gnoll. General Skills: Profession (Builder) (I+1), Mysticism (W), Fire-building (I). DM Notes: Baqateq is trying to match off her daughter with any promising young Hutaakans, and is still seeking out a more mature Hutaakan for herself. She also may be an interesting encounter for PC revolutionaries, who may be surprised that many common Hutaakans don't agree with their radical approach, and can assist those who seek to track down the movement, as she has been approached by two coworkers about joining. Also, she can be a source for canny, thieving chars (or law-obedient ones who need to do some underhanded maneuvers) on how to break and enter buildings in the city, as she has worked on a fair number of them and knows the locations of secret entrances and exits and traps. Sifima History: Born 31 cycles ago in Dashur, the son of one of the prominent artists of that city. Unfortunately, he was touched by the dark from a young age - he was just one of those boys who didn't play well with others. His life of petty crime was covered up by his powerful father, and the deeds grew worse and worse. Then, tired of the minor crimes, he decided to hit the big time, and volunteered his services to Ranivorus. He was gladly accepted, and assigned to the project of coordinating the gnollish arrivals into a competent military force. Personality: Sifima thrives on the same chaos, hatred and violence that drives Ranivorus, making him the ideal servant. He is cruel, vicious and knows little compassion or remorse. Appearance: Sifima is of short stature, even by Nithian standards, being just 4'7". He is of moderate build and is a very handsome lad, which helped him get away with even more. He wears whatever clothing is appropriate, wearing plate mail, robes, gnollish clothing, whatever suits his purposes at the present time. His sole concession to personal style is a fancily kept mustache. Combat Notes: He is a 12th level specialty cleric of Ranivorus. AC 0 (Plate+1, dexterity bonus); hp 47; at 1; d 2d4+2 (expert proficiency with flail+2, strength penalty); save C12; ML 11; Al C; S 5, I 12, W 16, D 17, Co 14, Ch 17. Languages: Nithian, Gnollish, Hutaakan, Chaotic, Neathar. General Skills: Honor Ranivorus (W+1), Deceive (Ch), Leadership (Ch), City/Outdoors Stealth (D), Snares (I). Special Abilities: Whisper hateful suggestions, turn snakes, instill beserker rage Magic Items: Plate Mail +1, Flail +2 (I 7, Ego 5, Al C, See invisible), Charm of the Asp (HWR2, pg 34), Viper Standard, Efreeti Bottle, Mirror of Life Trapping. DM Notes: Sifima's parents still live and may hire a Nithian or Hutaakan party to find their son and bring him back - unaware of how evil he has become. Generally, Sifima could serve the role of powerful adversary for the party, leading gnollish attackers into Hutaakan territory or corrupting Hutaakan officials with his clerical abilities. Chiphorqa History and Personality: Chiphorqa is just 19 cycles old and is full of the energy and hope that stereotypically belongs to the young. He aspired to the ranks of the lizard riders from a young age, and was accepted into their ranks just one month ago. He is eager to do his job and make a name for himself (and hopefully find a lovely young Hutaakan lass along the way). He is brave, far more than other Hutaakans, and hasn't yet learned restraint or that sometimes tact and calm are more important that bluster and courage. Appearance: Chiphorqa is of average height and on the thin side. His fur is neatly groomed before a ride, though often gets windblown and dirty by the time a delivery has finished. His tunic is a bright green, making him stand out quite a bit even among other workers. Combat Notes: He is a 1st-level Hutaakan. AC 5 (Chain Mail); hp 3; at 1; D 1-8 (sword) or 1-6 (light crossbow); save C1; ML 11.5; Al N; S 11, I 12, W 6, D 10, Co 13, Ch 10. Languages: Neather, Hutaakan, Nithian, Gnoll, Orc, Neutral. General Skills: Riding (Foot-Pad Lizard) (D+1), Bravery (W), Mysticism (W) DM Notes: As he is very rash, Chiphorqa is bound to get into all manner of troubles, which will require rescue. He is a willing volunteer for many a mission, should PCs seek out assistance, and is a good source of knowledge about the valley's geography, given his role. He is out and about alot and knows the fastest or safest routes, which could help in military planning, should a war break out. Shadowfall Lightfoot History: Shadowfall Lightfoot is a member of one of the Borzoi clans that inhabit the central valley forests. Many of his family were killed by marauding Wolflings 16 years ago, when he was just 5 years of age. Since then, he has had an overwhelming hatred of the mongrel lupins that inhabit the broken lands of the valley, and has made it his personal crusade to wipe them out. Since the arrival of the gnolls in the western hills, Shadowfall has found less time to pursue his vendetta, as he and the warriors of his clan are on constant guard against the gnolls. When he is able to find the time and volunteers, he leads small raiding groups through the hills to the broken lands, and attacks his ancient enemies on their own turf. Personality: Shadowfall's hatred of the Wolflings borders on the obsessive. When he isn't hunting them, he's planning a hunt. There is concern among his family that he is neglecting his duties to the clan by thinking about the Wolflings rather than the immediate threat of the gnolls. They hope that he will grow out of his enmity with age and the responsibilities of clan life. Appearance: Shadowfall is a huge lupin, standing 6' 2" tall, and weighing in at 247 lbs. His shaggy black fur is often unkempt, full of leaves and twigs and dirt. Shadowfall likes it that way, as it helps to disguise him in the wilderness. Combat Notes: 4th level Lupin fighter. AC 6 (leather armor, dexterity); hp 23; MV 180' (60'); #AT 1 axe or bite; D 1d8+1 (axe and strength bonus) or 1d4+1 (bite and strength bonus); Save F4; ML 10 (11 vs. Wolflings); AL Lawful; S 15, I 8, W 10, D 14, Co 13, Ch 11. Languages: Borzoi. General Skills: Tracking (I+2), Nature Lore (I), Danger Sense (10). Note that Tracking is an innate Lupin ability due to their senses, but can be improved as a normal skill by addition of empty slots (hence ?'s +2 to the score, even though he only has 4 total skill slots.) DM Notes: PCs are likely to encounter Shadowfall, either singly or with other members of his clan, anytime they are near the valley's broken lands region. Depending on their objective in the region, Shadowfall may either ally with them and offer to lead them through the Wolflings' territory, or attack them if they seem to be in league with his enemies. Bakitiqa History: 45 cycles old, Bakitiqa has spent her life some distance from the rest of the Hutaakans. She resides along the Tylaxu River, right before the rapids, at the very end of the Hutaakan territories. Her parents had served as the priests for a remote temple here, and she has followed in their footsteps. She now cares for her frail father, her mother having passed on last year. They are the sole residents of the temple at this time, though Bakitiqa is always ready to welcome in guests. Personality: Having never been exposed to many social situations, Baki can come across as shy and introverted. She is well-meaning, but has trouble getting along with others. She is a devout follower of Pflarr, having been raised in a temple, and having little interaction with outsiders - she comes across as even more of a proselytizer and zealot than other Hutaakans due to this, which may turn off outsiders. Appearance: Somewhat on the short side, Bakitiqa's fur is beginning to grey a bit. She doesn't see much need to spruce up her appearance, but she does keep her priestly robes in good shape. Being in an area which most would label wilderness, she often is armed with a staff and crossbow, who has them at close reach. Her most prized possession is the family heirloom, a holy symbol of Pflarr. Combat Notes: She is a 5th-level shaman. AC 8; hp 11; at 1; D 1d6 (staff or light crossbow); save C5; ML 10 (12 defending her temple or her father); Al N; S 9, I 10, W 17, D 10, Co 9, Ch 7. Languages: Gnollish, Neutral, Hutaakan, Nithian, Neathar. General Skills: Honor Pflarr (W+2), Nature Lore (Mountain/Hill) (I), Temple Maintenance (I). DM Notes: Bakitiqa could help provide the PCs shelter or food or simply an opportunity for rest and recuperation after long sojourns in their wilderness. She is always glad to have visitors, and questions them endlessly about the happenings of the rest of the valley. She could use some assistance helping care for her father as well, something any shaman of Pflarr would feel obliged to assist with. She also may be called upon to leave her home and join up with the rest of the shamans, in case an emergency should occur - if only somebody could inform her of that emergency, and safely escort her back through the wilds and into the heart of the Hutaakan lands. Kfizen History: 22 cycles old, Kfizen was raised from his days as a pup to be a loyal worker, helping keep Hutaakan society strong. He never was as zealous as his fellow workers, though - and when some of the rebels offered to recruit him to their cause a year ago, he immediately seized on the opportunity. Since that time, he has found meaning in his life, and now seeks to subvert the theocratic state of the Hutaakan lands. Personality: Kfizen is generally a self-serving individual, though he believes himself to act for the good of Hutaaka - he really is out for what is best for him. He sees himself as an energetic, committed soul - but he was always a lazy worker and could well revert once his initial excitement over this cause dies out. He sees himself as a skeptic - yet he shows no skepticism about his current associations, only about Pflarr's existence. He simply can't see the contradictions inherent in his claims. There are truly selfless souls among the revolutionaries, Hutaakans who want a real change for the right reasons - Kfizen isn't one of them. He's one of the handful of folks doomed for a meaningless life who figure anything else has to be better. Appearance: Kfizen is of average height and strongly muscled. He is rather vain about his looks and keeps his fur neatly combed and cleaned at all times - hardly the guerilla fighter he imagines himself to be. Combat Notes: He is a 1st-level Hutaakan. AC 8; hp 3; at 1; D 1-8+2 (sword, strength bonus); save C1 (-2 penalty vs. spells); ML 8; Al N; S 17, I 8, W 5, D 10, Co 14, Ch 6. Languages: Gnoll, Hutaakan, Neutral, Neathar, Nithian. General Skills: Muscle (S), Endurance (Co+1), Knowledge (Revolutionary Propaganda) (I) DM notes: Kfizen is a sign of the worst elements among the revolutionaries. To PC sympathizers, he can help show that the movement has its non-utopian facets. To opponents of the movement, he can serve as a convenient stereotype for those who truly mean well. Kfizen is quick to start a brawl with those who disagree - this can lead to PCs fighting him, or siding with him, or having to hunt him down after he slays a Hutaakan citizen. He is a somewhat unpredictable character, and can thus serve as a real wild card for the DM. New Spell 3rd level - learnable by Hutaakan shamans, spellmasters and wicca, including specialty shamans Card Catalog Range: One floor of a building, no limit in terms of yards covered Duration: 5 rounds + 1 per 4 levels This is a spell that comes in very handy for Hutaakan researchers and library staff. It allows someone to locate books more easily - a spellcaster may look for books by a given author or on a given topic. The spell will cause all books by the author or on the subject to glow for the duration of the spell. The glow is visible only to the caster and the exact name of the author must be known for an author-search. If several Hutaakan authors had the same name, books by each and every author will be highlighted by this spell. New Monster Wulven AC: 7 HD: 4+1* (L) MV: 120' (40') Atks: 1 club/1 bite Dmg: 1d6+2/1d6 NA: 2d6 (5d6) Save: F4 ML: 12 TT: K Int: 5 AL: C XPV: 200 Wulven are a degenerate offshoot of the Lupin race. Standing 7-8' tall, these vicious creatures hunt for sport, not simply for food. They are massively muscled, and receive a +2 to damage with their mighty stone or bone clubs. They are also able to use their toothy jaws to deliver a powerful bite. They hunt in packs, and when fighting Lupins (or other similar humanoid creatures) they enter a bloodthirsty rage in which they gain a +2 to hit. Their hairy, unkempt bodies resemble the wolves from which they get their names. Wulven society is very primitive. They make use of bone and stone tools only rarely, preferring to use their short claws and rending teeth instead. The Wulven language is relatively simple- consisting primarily of barks and howls- but there is a subtext of looks, gestures, and fur bristling that cannot be duplicated by most outsiders (save perhaps a Lupin, Gnoll, or Hutaakan). Lupins and Wulven hate each other with a tremendous passion, and will fight to the death on sight. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:38:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Halflings and religion MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" FOUND IT! This may not authoritatively mean that Five Shires hin are unreligious but the following quote, along with having to DIG when I initially got Gaz8 to find the names of the High Heroes lead me to believe that, in fact, the halflings are aware of the High Heroes, think of them as swell heroes, but offer them no religious dedication. IMC, the hin have more of a fervor for their land, but even that is more patriotism combined with a strong desire to serve as stewards of their land. From the Gaz8 Player's Booklet, Page 5, in the midst of a section called, of all things, "Social Standing:" "Halflings venerate elders but regard most religious behavior with head-shaking bemusement. This bewilderment is particularly strong in cases such as the Emirates of Ylaruam where such behavior involves cruelty to others, uneven hospitality, or treatment of folk simply because of belief. They also view with disdain hardships visited upon anyone in the name of a creed. "Faith, order, and clear aims are good things, but there should be limits to such beliefs. When others are hurt, deprived, enslaved, or compelled to direct their lives in certain strict manners because of one's religion, that line has been crossed. A halfling will fearlessly tell even a cleric so; the support of some Immortal or other is no excuse for one's own excessive actions." Then there's the already-cited opinions on the Emirates of Ylaruam, the schemes of the Church of Karameikos towards hindul and the notable absence of religious holidays of any sort from their calendar. If Ed Greenwood didn't intend for the hin to be cheerfully unreligious out of a sense of self-reliance and of not grasping any important difference between the High Heroes and just plain ordinary heroes, he did a bad job communicating their spiritual life, then. IMC, even under 3E rules, there are no halfling clerics from the Five Shires and it's only through the Knight-Hero and Hin Master prestige classes that the High Heroes typically get involved in the lives of adventurers. (Now, if someone would convert the WotI Immortals rules as amazingly high level prestige classes, that might change ...) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Hutaakan Valley HWR Part 4/4 In-Reply-To: <005c01c04264$a51edd00$06dc61d4@skytte> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Again, please send comments/criticism/questions/feedback/whatever, whether you liked the HWR or not. - Mischa Gelman Staff Writer, Pitt News Graduate Student, Pitt School of Social Work Intern, Jewish Family & Children's Service Employee, Pitt School of Nursing Computer Lab ---------------- Adventure ideas "Time Lost Love" 3-5 PCs between the levels of 1-3 (Total Levels 8). The PCs are sent by the priesthood to bring a package to a shaman on the outskirts of the valley. She is taking care of her ailing father and he has asked the shaman to summon the PCs there. The shaman's father is a chronomancer, a wizard specializing in time magic, and he is close to death. He has summoned the PCs to go back in time and perform one task for him and his dead wife. For the last couple of years, he has conserved his energies for one last spell that will send the hut and its surroundings back in time for an hour. When the PCs arrive at the hut, the father begins to cast his spell. As they enter the hut, the outside world disappears in a shower of colors and the father slips in a coma-like state. When the outside world reappears, the PCs will find themselves back in the past. Due to the spell's nature, they don't have any time to ask about the purpose of the time travel. Sixty years ago, a young Hutaakan wizard was journeying through the outlands when he came across a small village. He stopped in to gather some supplies and rest, when he saw a beautiful Hutaakan woman sitting on the river bank washing clothing. His short stay became a long one and eventually the wizard and the young woman were married. The shaman's father has sent the PCs back in time to defend the small village from a mob of undead that attack shortly after the PCs arrive in the past. The PCs will also learn about a box of momentos that the young wizard and the beautiful women kept, but was lost in the battle with the undead. The father asks the PCs to find the box back and bury it somewhere safe. When the PCs successfully defend the village and return back to the present, they can dig the box out of the ground and return it to the father, so he can pass away in peace. "The Lizard Express" 4-6 PCs between the levels of 3-5 (Total Levels 18). The lizard rider, Chiphorqa, was delivering an important message to Xyqata from an outlying outpost when his foot-pad lizard had an accident and injured its foot. The PCs stumble on the distraught rider as they are entering or just exploring the Valley and he pleads with them to help him on his mission. He claims that the message is time-sensitive and that without the PCs' help people may die. If the PCs decide to help they need to strip off their armor and leave it with the injured lizard. Chiphorqa's plan is to hide his lizard and run to the city. He needs the PCs to provide protection for himself or continue the mission if something should happen to him. This adventure provides a good way for PCs to receive an abbreviated tour of the Valley as they race to get to the city quickly. They can encounter gnoll patrols and monsters, but due to the party's exhausted state, challenges that they normally could handle are more difficult now. Evil DMs can even have a gnoll patrol find the PCs equipment and have them waiting for the poor party to come back and get it. "We Have to Go Down There?" 3-5 PCs between the levels of 4-6 (Total Levels 24). Baqateq and her crews are working on a construction site, when there is an accident and some of the construction collapses. The collapse inadvertedly opened a hole in the ground to some previously unknown construction. Baqateq and her engineers are scratching their heads because their blueprints have no record of these underground tunnels. The crew begins to investigate the tunnels, but are too afraid to venture too far in. Baqateq hires the PCs to map out the tunnels and clear out any dangers that may be lurking there. It turns out that the tunnels were part of the original construction of Xyqata and used by the high priesthood to move around the city. Because the tunnels can access any part of the city, they could also be used by the Hutaakans to defend the city in times of siege - as there was little need for such a defensive system, they were mostly abandoned and forgotten by the masses. The PCs will encounter various magical guardians, clever traps and whatever the DM would like to throw at them. Very few Hutaakan know about the tunnels and the high priest will be very upset that commoners have discovered it. They will dispatch the PCs to some far-off location to keep them from spreading the news about it. They may even send the PCs on some suicide missions. As soon as the revolutionaries hear about these tunnels, they will see it as another example of the priesthood's elite status and demand that the tunnels be opened to everyone. The PCs will have to figure out some way to appease both sides and deal with radicals on both. "Escort me into the Valley of Dogs" 4-6 PCs between the levels of 4-7 (Total Levels 30). The party should include a Thief or Hutaakan specializing in stealth skills. The scholars of the Lighthouse have finally decided to test Kfitiqa as a candidate for induction. Before her trip, the scholars give her a map and a specific route to follow to the Lighthouse. The PCs are hired to escort Kfitqa on her route and through the Valley. Unbeknownest to both Kfitqa and the PCs, the trip through the Valley is her test. The route is littered with shrines, ruins and rest stops, some occupied and some not. The Lighthouse would like to reopen this abandoned trail to provide a safe route to Xyqata. They are hoping that the PCs will clear out any monsters inhabiting the ruins and that Kfitqa will record her trip. She will be graded on how thoroughly she investigates these ruins and the analysis she performs. The DM can cater this adventure in any way he chooses. The ruins can contain monsters, exiled priests, elaborate traps and strange sites. One additional wrinkle that the DM can add is having the PCs unknowingly awaken an undead exiled Hutaakan priest and having the undead priest stalking the party throughout the rest of the adventure. "Can I Get a Drink of Water?" 4-6 PCs between the levels of 5-7 (Total Levels 32). Lizard riders have reported an increase of gnoll activity near the lupin border. The frequency and numbers of gnoll patrols have risen dramatically and the priesthood is worried that they may be amassing for an assault. The PCs are sent to investigate the rise in activity and determine whether or not it poses a threat to Xyqata. The truth of the situation is significantly more frightening. Sifima, the Nithian priest mobilizing the gnolls, has come across ancient texts describing a magical fountain near the lupin border. The description was very vague, but the fountain promised great boons to whoever drank from it. Sifima is determined to find the fountain and use it as the launching point for an eventual takeover of the valley; therefore he has sent numerous gnoll patrols searching for it. Unbeknownst to Sifima, the lupins already know about the fountain, which they regard as a holy place. Except for high holy days, they are even hesitant to approach it, although they have an honor guard protecting it at all times. The honor guard has done a good job of distracting the gnoll patrols, but their numbers are few and the gnolls are getting closer. They have asked for help from their tribes, but they will arrive too late to help. The PCs are the miracle they are praying for. The DM can decide how the PCs meet up with the lupins. The PCs initial encounters will be some gnoll patrols until they eventually help some lupin honor guard members against some gnolls or the PCs can be observing the gnolls, until they begin to realize they are being watched by the lupins. The PCs will then have to choose how they deal with the gnolls. They could use force and defend the fountain. The fountain is in a secluded part of the valley and is naturally easily defensible. They could stall the gnolls until the lupin reinforcements arrive. The PCs could also try something a little trickier. As fate would have it, the fountain does have magical properties, but it only works on certain days or it could only work for those of Lawful alignment. Whatever the DM chooses, the PCs can allow the gnolls to find the fountain and have Sifima himself test the fountain. When he finds out that the fountain doesn't work or have the properties he expected, he will call off the search. This only leaves a bunch of gnolls and a high level Nithian priest that the PCs and the lupins have to get rid off. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:14:38 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Anondson wrote: > > > Alphatian society resembles that of Assyria or Persia, or even somewhat more > > aptly, Egypt. > > That is exactly the impression I got when I opend the DotE boxed set for the > first time. Pulling out the Player's Guide to Alphatia, the symbol on the > cover set it for me. That "style" of art was commonplace in symbology in > Assyrian Palaces. > I always considered Alphatia as being somewhat strongly based on ancient Mesopotamian cultures (despite the later appearance of Nimmur). The symbolics, and even many place and people's names, have a decidedly Babylonian/Sumerian feel to them. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:17:05 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Philosophical Underpinnings. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > > In a message dated 2000-10-29 6:06:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, > jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > > > Alphatia's society, and the philosophical underpinnings of it, however, are > > neither alien to human experience or modern. > > The main part that is alien is the social distinction between spellcasters > and mundaners -- since there are no spellcasters in the real world, we No, but there were priests, which could almost be considered the same thing (the average common people certainly thought that priests could call upon mighty magical powers). And as James pointed out, there's plenty of such examples of social distinction in ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Persia. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:19:45 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau Yarbrough wrote: > > Is there an addictive drug spread on the pages of DotE? How is it that > Thyatis and Alphatia can command such, um, enthusiasm from the list > regulars? I don't have the boxed set -- I run games set in the post-sinking > It usually happens when certain individuals upset the general peace and harmony of the list by suggesting that there may be bad things in Alphatia and good things in Thyatis :) -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:27:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Sword & Sorcery (long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Evil Genius wrote: > Ok, well I guess I *will* disagree with some of this, mainly in the = details. If you're not interested in the Alph/Thy part, you might want = to read anyhow, since it gets into other issues. Hey, thanks for finally using the keyword [long]! You're right, this is = quibbling about details. What I said still holds from the Alphatian = point of view. Even if it might not be the exact truth, that doesn't = mean that Alphatia-philes can't (or don't) use it as a reason for loving = Alphatia. And, since you admit to Thyatis being the underdog, you do = seem to agree with me. I also agree with you on the whole wizards vs. = fighters/thieves/all-other-intelligent-or-unintelligent-living-dead-or-un= dead-things. Still, it all depends on the rules you use. I have no idea = what it's like in 3E, but I hope that, as some people say, it's = balanced. Since I mainly have experience with OD&D, I haven't had much = experience with this conflict. Though high (say above 20th) level = wizards were powerful, I've always felt the other character classes were = balanced with them, especially through the Weapon Mastery rules. In = fact, back then I remember we used to discuss how incredibly powerful = the druid was, mainly because of the Creeping Doom spell. This brings me to my next point. Because of the many new spells being = introduced (mainly in AD&D 2E), wizards slowly but surely seemed to gain = the upper hand. Where it's very hard to come up with new way for = fighters or thieves to gain power. Eventually you get stuff such as Tome = of Magic, and suddenly the wizard is out of league with every single = character class, including the other spell-casting classes, though they = also get a boost with new spells. Now, when I talk to other gamers, they can all brag about their = high-level wizard character, who is untouchable in each and every = situation. And they're right. My favorite thief character does not = compare to their wizards in any way. It's sad. I might be moving outside of Mystara and OD&D here, and I'm sorry for = that. Admonish me, oh Grand Gargoyle of Gaming, if I deserve it. Having = played the new AD&D 2E computer games (Baldur's Gate II in particular) = one easily sees why the wizard class appeals to the little Munchkin = inside all of us. Every single high-level wizard (and several lower = level ones) are a serious challenge for your party of six characters! I = would never have defeated any of them, had the game engine not been = faulty (wizards concentrating spells on summoned monsters with magic = resistance, for instance, or the inability of the opponents to act = intelligently if you're outside their range of sight). What's with a = spell like Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting? Or Immunity to Magical Weapons? = Wail of the Banshee? It's sick... What this brings me to, is that I can only say that I love OD&D. Though = some rules appear simplistic, and the game might not exactly be = balanced, it has always seemed far more balanced to me than 2E, and I've = never had a player who complained about playing non-wizard character = classes. In fact, most prefer playing thieves or fighters, some times = they have to argue about who gets to play the spell-caster in the game, = since they do agree that having versatility is preferable. In 2E, such = as when I DMed Ravenloft for a few years, most people wanted to play = specialist wizards, and people argued about who had to play the fighter = (or rather the shield for the wizards). Naturally, all I could say was 'drop the munchkinism, this is = role-playing!', but still people much preferred the sinister Elminster = type, so they could 'role-play' their character as arrogantly as = possible and still get away with it, since nobody dared oppose them. = Well, the campaign ended horribly (for the PCs), and I never missed an = opportunity to make the fighter stand out among the PCs. But this wasn't = satisfactory either (well, at least not for me)... All right, I'm = through ranting. If you've kept reading till this sad end, I apologize = for taking you so far away from Mystara. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:31:51 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery (long)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacob Skytte wrote, although heavily snipped: > Now, when I talk to other gamers, they can all brag about their high-level wizard character, who is untouchable in each and every situation. And they're right. My favorite thief character does not compare to their wizards in any way. It's sad. > > Naturally, all I could say was 'drop the munchkinism, this is role-playing!', but still people much preferred the sinister Elminster type, so they could 'role-play' their character as arrogantly as possible and still get away with it, since nobody dared oppose them. Well, the campaign ended horribly (for the PCs), and I never missed an opportunity to make the fighter stand out among the PCs. But this wasn't satisfactory either (well, at least not for me)... All right, I'm through ranting. If you've kept reading till this sad end, I apologize for taking you so far away from Mystara. Sniff...I think I am going to cry...this remembers me of my past dead campaigns, of munchkinism that I have left behind long ago (luckily), and of a recent topic in the Almanac Team......... ......but these days I am probably very wise, so I won't speak, but simply nod at this mail, my sword and my armor on my bed, behind me, and my shiny Captain grade on my shoulder, my fighter vocation not forgotten, and my stare directed to the Alphatian Sea, where once the enemy who brought so much damage to our land stood.... Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:41:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Evolution of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Kum-rah + Ba-steh > What if we assume that Kumrah and Basteh are mythos, but that in fact they were related to tigers and lions like humans are to gorillas.....? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:10:19 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery (long)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I dont know, fighters are hard... they are just dull. Just this weekend I saw an enduk tangle with tanar'ri in melee (unarmed - couldnt be bothered to draw bastard swords for planar scum) and really kick ass. Whereas I, the archmage, was reduced to hacking with a +3 sabre, as their magic res was so high. The enduk did more damage than me... A lot more! ----- Original Message ----- From: Caroletti To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 7:31 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery (long)] > Jacob Skytte wrote, although heavily snipped: > > > Now, when I talk to other gamers, they can all brag about their high-level wizard character, who is untouchable in each and every situation. And they're right. My favorite thief character does not compare to their wizards in any way. It's sad. > > > > Naturally, all I could say was 'drop the munchkinism, this is role-playing!', but still people much preferred the sinister Elminster type, so they could 'role-play' their character as arrogantly as possible and still get away with it, since nobody dared oppose them. Well, the campaign ended horribly (for the PCs), and I never missed an opportunity to make the fighter stand out among the PCs. But this wasn't satisfactory either (well, at least not for me)... All right, I'm through ranting. If you've kept reading till this sad end, I apologize for taking you so far away from Mystara. > > Sniff...I think I am going to cry...this remembers me of my past dead campaigns, > of munchkinism that I have left behind long ago (luckily), and of a recent topic > in the Almanac Team......... > ......but these days I am probably very wise, so I won't speak, but simply nod > at this mail, my sword and my armor on my bed, behind me, and my shiny > Captain grade on my shoulder, my fighter vocation not forgotten, and my stare > directed to the Alphatian Sea, where once the enemy who brought so much > damage to our land stood.... > > Iulius Sergius Scaevola > Captain of the XXth Cohort > Port Lucinius, Thyatis > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:52:54 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Tomas Sanchez Organization: Mystara Mailing List Subject: Re: Darokin help wanted MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Max Monas [MYSTARA] Darokin help wanted > Hi everyone, Hello there Max. > I am about to send my PCs to Darokin. I do have a question though > about the Merchant Houses. In the gazatteer is says that for example > Corun house is located in Corunglain. Does this mean they only do > business in Corunglain or can do also do business in, for example, > Selenica? I mean would they have merchants there selling and buying > stuff for them there? I hope to hear from you soon. Corunglain ( Corun's Glenn ) is the city which saw them grow. The Coruns where born there, if not physically at least as prosperous merchants, so their influence should be felt in every bit of the city and not just there but through all Darokin and even beyond. How could they have been promoted to the ranks of most powerful merchant houses otherwise ? > Regards, Hope it helps. > Max Tom ------------------------------------------------ Name: Tomas Sanchez. Nickname: Rick Deckard E-mail address: deckard@encomix.es ICQ# 9190040 Home Page: Coming soon at a server across Europe ------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:55:04 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Tomas Sanchez Organization: Mystara Mailing List Subject: Re: The Great Valley, The Well of the Moon, The Pachydermions and Khompor-Tap MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Sullivan Re: [MYSTARA] The Great Valley, The Well of the Moon,The Pachydermions and Khompor-Tap > Sounds cool ! Thanks for kind words. I'm glad to hear from your enthusiasm. > My Desert Nomad campaign is currently on hiatus, and they > haven't got nearly that far yet. But I love that idea! Mind if I > borrow it IMC? Please use it. I'll be glad if my idea is of any use to you and your team-mates. Just tell me how it all results if you put it out to work. > BTW--I'm pretty sure that the Island of Pascua is, in English, > Easter Island (in the Pacific west of Chile, with the big statues > all around it) but I'm not sure... is that correct? You're right *blush*. Please forgive me for not having checked the right word but I was eager to share my last developments with you and get some feedback. >> * Whatever you can share about Pachydermions. > What resources do you have so far? They're described in the AD&D > Mystara Monstrous Compendium and the Creature Catalogues, but I > think that's it. IIRC, the AD&D MMC has more details than the CCs. I just own the Creature Catalogue but it's packaged and stored somewhere in my grandmother house and it will pass some time before I'm able to rescue it. That's the reason I cried for your help. > > * Whatever you can share about Myoshima and Khompor-Tap. > They were detailed in the VotPA series in Dragon: if you don't yet have > the Dragon Magazine archive, I'd highly recommend it :-) A friend has just passed me Dragon Magazine #160 but unfortunately I hardly found time to browse through it. Could you please tell me which other numbers could be helpful ( if any ) ? > > * Who have knowledge of Patera's existence ? Who have visited it > > and when ? Who have them contacted on the moon? ( If any ) > Well, Prince Haldemar's Princess Ark and all its crew (mostly Alphatian, > some randoms) were there a while back. The Heldannic Knights were > there. And I think some Bellayners recently rediscovered it, but I'm not > sure about that. If you don't have the Dragon article, e-mail me and I'll > summarize it for you. Thanks for your kind offer. As I told you it'll be enough if you point me which numbers should I consult. Although I'd highly appreciate the dates each one of them contacted and who they met. > Patrick > pds3@dana.ucc.nau.edu Read you soon. Tom ------------------------------------------------ Name: Tomas Sanchez. Nickname: Rick Deckard E-mail address: deckard@encomix.es ICQ# 9190040 Home Page: Coming soon at a server across Europe ------------------------------------------------ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:35:04 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery (long)] In-Reply-To: <005f01c042ad$6e14b480$9a01a8c0@rob> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 20:10 10/30/2000 -0000, Rob wrote: >I dont know, fighters are hard... they are just dull. (Cough, cough) 3E ... (cough, cough) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:01:08 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Five Shires/Karameikos NPC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" This NPC will be dropped into my Karameikos campaign in the next few weeks, providing a link between one character and his past, and potentially adding thief skills to a party that's lacking them. Comments welcome. -- RINGO TRUNDLESTUMP Lawful Good male hin rogue 1/fighter 1 Ringo Trundlestump is a yallara from Wardlystone, Eastshire, currently residing in Mirros. This isn't his first time in Karameikos: He was kidnapped in 992 by agents of the Black Eagle Baron and subjected to hideous tortures and experiments by Bargle and his apprentices, before being helped to escape by Bargle's apprentice Valeria. Returning to Eastshire, Ringo was also part of the invasion force that finally sacked Fort Doom in 1011 and brought Ludwig von Hendriks to justice, only to see him vanish moments before his execution. Smallish even for a halfling, Ringo has light curly hair and long sideburns, along with twinkling green eyes and a youthful face already lined from the sun. He dresses in comfortable clothes that would fit a gentleman farmer or an adventurer equally well. He's particularly proud of his dark vest embroidered with a spreading apple tree across the back, with leaves and apples reaching around to the front. Ringo is quick, both mentally (Int 15) and physically (Dex 18), an able cook, storyteller and a serious marbles player. He is still enjoying his yallaren, but he ultimately plans to return home to Wardlystone and Applehill, the enormous farm run by the Trundlestump clan, where he plans on going into the family business. Ringo is crazy about apples - apple pie, apple cider, dried apples - and is rarely found without apples or an apple product on him. Foes have considered him something of a clown because of this, but it's been a mistake some of them haven't lived to regret. Other than his apple-mania, Ringo is a fairly impressive figure, a swashbuckler in the Darokinian tradition, a lover of the good life and a protector of the innocent. Ringo is a chivalrous sort, forever announcing his intention to right wrongs and foil the forces of evil. In between such escapades, he is a much quieter sort, content to play marbles, drink apple cider, smoke his pipe and trade stories. Besides an extensive - and somewhat worrisome - knowledge of all things apple, Ringo also knows Eastshire and the western half of Karameikos extremely well from the perspective of an adventure-hungry yallara, in any case. He also remembers the siege of Fort Doom extremely well, and is always on the lookout for signs of Bargle or the Black Eagle. Ringo speaks Thyatian. Ringo Trundlestump, male halfling rogue 1/fighter 1: CR 2; Small humanoid (3' 2", 36 lbs); HD 1d10+1 plus 1d6+1; hp 11; Init +4; Spd 20 ft.; AC 17 (+4 dexterity, +2 leather armor); Atk +1 melee plus -4 (two weapon attack: masterwork short sword, 1d6 and dagger, 1d4), or +6 ranged (1d4, sling); AL LG; SV Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +3; Str 11, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 12 Skills - Climb 4, Disable Device 3, Hide 3, Jump 4, Listen 4, Marbles 1, Move Silently 3, Open Lock 3, Perform (storytelling, singing, dancing) 3, Pickpocket 3, Profession (Cook) 4, Spot 3, Swim 2, Use Magic Device 3 Feats - Iron Will, Two-Weapon Fighting Possessions - Leather armor, masterwork short sword, dagger, sling, sap, pipe, cookbook/journal, tobacco, dried apples, apple cider, bag of marbles BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:21:23 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Zzonga? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Now on the Sind section of VotPA, and wondering what zzonga is, where it comes from, and what its effects are. Thanks. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:37:48 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob wrote: > I dont know, fighters are hard... they are just dull. This is nonsense. No characters are dull, unless the player/DM plays = them that way. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:46:56 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Evolution of the Rakasta MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caroletti wrote: > > > Kum-rah + Ba-steh > > What if we assume that Kumrah and Basteh are mythos, but that in fact they > were related to tigers and lions like humans are to gorillas.....? Mah, from the point of view of the migratory fluxes, there isn't any relevant change. You just lose them as Immortal or Exalted patrons of the Rakasta race. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:44:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Mystara.com.bi updated!!! new map MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello guys and girls I just remade my wendar map using the rightly oriented hexes and adding the new towns as suggested by Darkblood. It is in the map/north section hope you'll enjoy it feedback is welcome -- Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:54:49 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Alphatia/Thyatis ad infinitum In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001030010525.007b29f0@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:05 AM 10/30/00 -0800, you wrote: > > What is the appeal of the two empires? Zzonga. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:35:24 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Night dragons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Beau Yarbrough > >> They copped out and called it a modified red dragon. > > > >It was discussed earlier that Night Dragon's are modified ruby dragons, > >probably corrupted by Atzanteotl. > > Uh, OK. I was referring to what the authors of GKoM said to use, not what > the origins of the species were. Well, OK. And to answer Jacob's question, I think the Corrupted Ruby Dragon Theory came about this way. It was proposed/mentioned that Synn used to be the Queen of a group of dragons. It was then suggested that the Immortal Atzanteol, who loves to corrupt lawful races, was the one to influence Synn to turn bad. Based on the stats that night dragons are most similar to red dragons, it was first suggested that Synn was the Queen of the Red Dragons--but that wouldn't make sense, since red dragons are chaotic to begin so. It was then proposed that Synn was once a lawful ruby dragon that was corrupted into the night dragons. This is all fan-based, of course. By the way, you can ready a referrence to this theory in a Glantrian story, "Treachery & Tea", which you can find (shameless plug) at the GPD website. www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/stories/treachery.htm Kit Navarro ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:31:34 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I dont know, fighters are hard... they are just dull. This is nonsense. No characters are dull, unless the player/DM plays them that way. Of course. I ventured an opinion. I reckon fighters are dull. Someone else also ventured an opinion - that fighters are weak. I do not think fighters are weak. Just dull. There are ways to make them interesting (I have a weakness for Swashbucklers for example) but they remain far less interesting than a thief or a mage... It remains, however, only an opinion. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:33:01 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Kill all Munchkin [was Sword & Sorcery (long)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > At 20:10 10/30/2000 -0000, Rob wrote: > >I dont know, fighters are hard... they are just dull. > > (Cough, cough) 3E ... (cough, cough) Cough, cough indeed. It's an illness I try to avoid :) Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:58:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Zzonga? Mystara wrote: >> Now on the Sind section of VotPA, and wondering what zzonga is, where itcomes from, and what its effects are. << Gaming-wise, Zzonga originated in the module M1: Into the Maelstorm, an "Odyssey" like Adventure; the Zzonga users were akin to the Lotus Eaters from the original Odyssey, and the damnable fruit could plague the crews of the character's ships at various stages throughout the adventure. The Maelstorm adventure was largely set in Old Alphatia, DotE then subsiquently defined Zzonga: its a drug that originated on Old Alphatia, was brought to Mystara by the Alphatians. Its effects can be quite debilitating, especially on spellcasters. There are supposedly, per DotE, many Zzonga-addicts in the Alphatian Empire (we hardly ever hear of them, though, in other products and materiels. . .) Zzonga can, like the Spiders that spin Spider Silk, only grow in special environments similar to that of their native plane (Old Alphatia). DotE's DM Sourcebook gives some additional information, including stats & game effects. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:21:28 +0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Francisco V. Navarro" Subject: Re: Zzonga? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Zzonga is the greatest of pleasures that we mortals can possibly induldge in! It's sweet fragrance. It's pleasant pink hues. It reminds me of strawberries... except happier! It is perhaps one of the few good things to have come from Alphatia! Of course, only the elite here in Glantri can afford to buy zzonga! And you must have your contacts! They don't sell it off the streets, my dear! Here, why don't you take a puff? Forget about that hidalgo who's challenging you to a magical duel. Or that experiment of yours that will bankrupt you if you fail. Or the fact that your daughter is bearing the child of some werewolf-sorcerer from Morlay. Zzonga will make it all better now, I promise..." --overheard at a party in Glantri City in the fall season of AC 1016 Basically, zzonga is a plant from Old Alphatia that creates a pleasant mind-numbing drug. There are several referrences to zzonga. Off-hand, I know it is detailed in "Dawn of the Emperors" and in the "Arena of Thyatis" adventure (where it was used on some of the gladiators before their combat.) Recently, it was brought to the Principalities of Glantri, with Sir Lathan Aendyr of the Alphatian House Silverston as its main purveyor. Several noble Glantrians are rumored to use it--some have even become addicts. Sir Lathan also crafted a few new spells based on zzonga and its effects. Check it out at our site: www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri Kit Navarro GPD Archduke ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:14:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:27:03 Evil Genius wrote: >Mystara wrote: >>> IMO about half were taken out of context << > >Now that's not true, of course. Anyone who has DotE can look them up and see. > Okay. I wasn't going to do this, but let me just give one example... IIRC you stated that the book says, "Oh, there were some human settlements - quickly conquered, their populations absorbed into the new Empire as slaves" (please correct me if I'm wrong in saying you made this quote). Now, a quote like that, one its own, naturally suggests that the Alphatians have absolutely no regard whatsoever about these people - it's mentioned so casually that one would think that it's hardly worth mentioning at all, thus stressing their arrogant and superior attitude... It suggests that it doesn't matter at all how many people were enslaved, no point in even mentioning how many, as none of them matter. One might even think they chose a heavily populated area so that they'd have more slaves to do their bidding. That's how I would see it at least. The quote is from p.5 of the Player's Guide to Alphatia which describes Alphatia's history, landfall on Mystara in this case (under the heading, "The New Alphatian Empire"), but what it really does say is: "While the surviving Followers of Fire were wandering the outer planes, the Followers of Air were settling on this world, on a continent which most reminded them of their former world. The Alphatians concluded that this planet had shifted the axis of its rotation no more than two thousand years before, and within the last two or three hundred years the ice had receded from this fair island - and no new human settlements of any consequence had been established here in the meantime. (Oh, there were some human settlements - quickly conquered, their populations absorbed into the new Empire as slaves.)" That's the correct and full quote! Suddenly things look a little different - the Alphatians didn't settle this area for slaves, no they did it because it reminded them of their former home and besides, it was sparsely populated... Sure, they took slaves and, yes, treated them poorly, but then most Mystaran nations do. Also, you left out the parentheses. That may not be a big deal to you, but as most people know, things put in parentheses are usually additions of lesser importance used to push the intensity of what is said in the more major statements in one direction or the other. In case it was always clear to me that the sentence was added to show that the Alphatians didn't settle this island, as one might otherwise be led to believe, out of some profound respect for the existing population - it might have factored in to a degree, but they still didn't hesitate to enslave the population that did live in the area they settled. You, on the other hand, used the sentence to suggest fierce oppression, which I don't think is what the full sentences in that part of DotE is saying. Thus, I think you've used the sentence out of context. >>> the other half were used to reach conclusions that, at best, I just cannot agree with. So...<< > >Well, conclusions that you don't want to agree with. > So, you're basically telling me that I do agree - I have to! I just don't want to admit it. I've snipped rest, because it would only cause more trouble if I responded... Besides, I'm not going to bother, as people already know my views on this matter, and I'm sure they're as fed up with this as I am :( - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:50:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mystara wrote: >> That's the correct and full quote! Suddenly things look a little different << A "little" different is right. >> Also, you left out the parentheses. That may not be a big deal to you, but as most people know, things put in parentheses are usually additions of lesser importance used to push the intensity of what is said in the more major statements in one direction or the other. << Lesser importance to the Alphatians, to be sure; their disregard for others is palpable. Then, on the other hand, we have whining from Alphatians about how, when rising up against the Alphatians, the Thyatians stole "their" (Alphatian's) land (by, what? seeking freedom and encouraging others who were conquered by the Alphatians to rise up against their tyranny as well) - point remains unchanged, really: "Now, a quote like that, one its own, naturally suggests that the Alphatians have absolutely no regard whatsoever about these people - it's mentioned so casually that one would think that it's hardly worth mentioning at all, thus stressing their arrogant and superior attitude" Point is that, actually, in the "context" it is placed, it even *more* stresses that casuality, that they hardly think it's worth mentioning at all, it stresses to an even *greater* extent their arrogant and superior attitide. It certainly does nothing to diminish it at all (here are some lands that remind the Alphatians of their own lands - lands they themselves destroyed, and they think noting of taking it and enslaving the inhabitants. Now, I could accurately call modern Alphatia "sparsely inhabited", as it is, and yet if I suggested it should be up for grabs, what would your reaction be?) Indeed, putting it in proper context would include reference to what is said about the Yannifey and the Alphatians on p.81 in the DM's Sourcebook - a quote of which I included. >> I've snipped rest, because it would only cause more trouble if I responded...<< No, I think you should respond to that one. If you think that the Alphatians Aristocrats are not tyrannical and claim that I took that quote out of context, then you need to explain how it means that they are not tyrannical. Similarly with the quotes about Stonewall and other places. I think it's fair for me to ask, since you accused me of taking things out of context and distorting things, for me to ask you to explain why, to you, when it says things like "These islands were settled by non-magical Alphatians who wanted to make their lives away from the tyranny of Alphatian nobles - and they did." why to you that means that Alphatian nobles are not tyrannical, or why you think a statement like that doesn't matter. To me, such quotes mean what they say - not the opposite of what they say. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:51:45 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Hutaakan Valley HWR Part 3/4 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Just an addendum to this post- any references in the text to "Wolflings" should be changed to "Wulven". Wolflings was an earlier draft of the name for these beasts (this change also extends to the writeup on D'resh the Destructor, which was written prior to the change.) So where are all the comments? Do we have to mention Alphatia and/or Thyatis in the piece in order to get some feedback? ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:35:01 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:50:48 Evil Genius wrote: (snip) >>> I've snipped rest, because it would only cause more trouble if I responded...<< > >No, I think you should respond to that one. Why? No good can come of it, so why should I bother? > If you think that the Alphatians Aristocrats are not tyrannical and claim that I took that quote out of context, then you need to explain how it means that they are not tyrannical. > I repeat: Please don't put words into my mouth! I never said that... Many indeed are like this, though, as even you must admit, not all are. I never said otherwise. > Similarly with the quotes about Stonewall and other places. I think it's fair for me to ask, since you accused me of taking things out of context and distorting things, > First, I did respond to you - I did say why I felt you were stating things out of context. If you didn't see that, then read my last post again. Second, I don't have to respond at all if I don't want to. To suggest otherwise is trolling! >for me to ask you to explain why, to you, when it says things like "These islands were settled by non-magical Alphatians who wanted to make their lives away from the tyranny of Alphatian nobles - and they did." why to you that means that Alphatian nobles are not tyrannical, or why you think a statement like that doesn't matter. > When have I said this? This is Alphatian history, yes. I don't deny that. I never did. Then again, it does not mean that *all* commoners have sought to escape the alleged oppression of Alphatia, and I certainly think you're trying to reach that conclusion at times. I don't deny what canon says, I just point out when I think statements are twisted to support things contrary to what I believe was the intent. If you don't want me to, then stop giving me a reason. >To me, such quotes mean what they say - not the opposite of what they say. > And what if I don't reach the same interpretation and conclusions from those quotes that you do? I think that's a fair way of putting it, seeing as how we're obviously a number of people who disagree with you. Then who will decide who is right? You? - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:42:42 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Hutaakan Valley Comments >> So where are all the comments? << Well, I thought it was good, but I'm still digesting it. Most folks don't comment unless they're in rabid disagreement. If you feel left out, though, I can give you nitpicks: The capital city, set with a population of 20,000, seemed rather large, since that's what the HW DM's Sourcebook gives as the population of all the Hutaaka ("mostly in and about one small town" I know, but this puts it all *in* that town). Ambassadors? Judging by what the HW DM's Sourcebook says, it doesn't seem like the Hutaakans get many visitors. The Hutaakans teaching military arts to Lupins was funny. 8-) Justice: I was wondering what their laws were, though. What constitues a criminal deed? Any odd/unusual laws? Health Care: reference to modern, IRL situations seemed oddly incongrous. The NPCs seemed cool, no real visceral reaction to them. Same with the Adventure ideas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:53:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Right after sending my last message, I regretted it. Not so much because I don't stand by what I said, but because the tone is getting hostile, threatening to turn this into a flamefest, and I don't want to add to that on the MML. Also, I know that 'Evil Genius' will take exception to my comments, and that is not a good thing - I may not agree, in fact I disagree strongly as I'm sure people are aware, but I have no intention of making him mad, though I guess that will be the outcome of my last message - for that I apologize. I'm perfectly willing to let other people have their opinions of Alphatia as long as I don't have to have it forced down my throat. And I believe we're talking about Alphatia here - not Thyatis. We never even mentioned Thyatis, except to give example of what Alphatia was or was not. This means that these discussions are all doomed to become negative because they focus on the bad sides of the empires... I'd rather we did it the other way around! - The Stalker, very unhappy about all this bickering... :( Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:27:40 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia >> I repeat: Please don't put words into my mouth! I never said that...<< You said that I took half the quotes out of context and the other half reached conclusions you disagreed with. That was one of the quotes you theirby dismissed. . .in any case, you dismissed them all as being distortions of mine. So since that was one of the quotes I used and which you dismissed, then. . . Anyhow, this is why these things get ugly, really, especially if you're going to make an accusation like that (claiming everything I said was out of context or which conclusions you disagreed with) and then think it's an affront when the person you accuse of doing that asks you to prove the accusation. If you don't want to, you don't have to, but res ipsa locutor. >> First, I did respond to you - I did say why I felt you were stating things out of context. If you didn't see that, then read my last post again. << In one instance, which I dealt with. Far from showing I took that out of context, indeed, you showed how in context it had the meaning that you claimed I ascribed to it. And I guess you picked the one that you thought was the best example, which would be only natural. >> Second, I don't have to respond at all if I don't want to. To suggest otherwise is trolling! << If you're going to levy an accusation, you should be willing to back it up. I never just say so and so is full of it, I explain why I think they're wrong (perhaps *that's* the crime, though - I don't just make unsupported assertions, I have the temerity to back them up!) >> When have I said this? << Should we go back and check? >> If you don't want me to, then stop giving me a reason. << I guess I don't understand what you mean by that. If you mean stop giving reasons for my conclusions, I guess the only reply I can make to that is that I won't lower myself to the standards of those who make unsupported assertions. I'm going to keep giving the reasons for the claims I make. If you mean "stop giving me a reason for replying by posting your opinions", then I don't see the need to be silenced any more than you do. >> And what if I don't reach the same interpretation and conclusions from those quotes that you do? I think that's a fair way of putting it, seeing as how we're obviously a number of people who disagree with you. << Many of whom, however, do so by simply dismissing what is said in DotE when they don't like it (or are unaware of what is in it). I hadn't put you into that category, before, though. The fact that such persons *always* tend to dismiss whatever they don't like and instead replace it with its opposite. Well, Aaron Nowak put it better than I could when he said: "Now, IYC, you can do whatever you want. Alphatia can be an enlightened "United Federation of Kingdoms", where unworthy non-spellcasters are genrously cared for out of the goodness of the hearts ofthe wise spellcasters and the only reason it hasn't "liberated" all of Mystara is devotion to their "Prime Directive" of allowing the savages to make their own foolish mistakes... but IMO, an overwhelming majority of canon material (all the old modules- in M2 an Alphatian victory is set up as one of the consequences of _failure_ on the part of the PCs, DotE- the _definitive_ source on both empires and indeed partialy written from an Alphatian point of view, and for the most part PWA1- at least for the surface world) suggests that Alphatia is one of the most oppressive regimes this side of Hule." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia >> but I have no intention of making him mad, though I guess that will be the outcome of my last message - for that I apologize. << Ok. >> I'm perfectly willing to let other people have their opinions of Alphatia as long as I don't have to have it forced down my throat. << Well, conversely the opposite seems to be the actual case in most respects - these things always get to the point where certain folks decide they're "sick" of the discussion - but what they aren't sick of is them expressing their own opinions, but other people (such as myself) expressing mine - and putting my money where my mouth is by backing up my claims with actual (!) evidence. What gets me "sick" of these discussions is the tendency to dismiss such things as meaningless, and then in effect force down the throat the "enlightened Alphatia" version, which, as Agathokles said, involved a "reality shift", and as Jacob Skytte (who doesn't generally agree with me on lots) said involved some "strange" things happening. I'm not going to appologize for my opinions, or for expressing them. I might appologize for how these threads go on and on at length, to the people who aren't interested in them - I might appologize to those people for that. But I'm not going to be made to feel ashamed for my opinions, or for finding, quoting, and explaining the reasons why I hold them. I'm not appologetic about that, and I'm not going to be shamed into being appologetic about that. I appologize for the "bickering" tone, but I feel that I have every right, when accused of taking things out of context and of distorting their meaning, of defending myself against such accusations. When I think someone's wrong, I do them the courtesy of explaining why, even if I doubt I'll change their mind. Perhaps I even do that at too great a length, but I think it's only appropriate to explain why you think something is wrong and what you think is correct, and your reasons for reaching that conclusion. Fact is, originally any disputatiousness wasn't directed at you, Jens, but at another participant who's sneering claims regarding Alphatian superiority I felt required a much-needed puncturing. >> This means that these discussions are all doomed to become negative because they focus on the bad sides of the empires... I'd rather we did it the other way around! << Well, that might be a change of pace, at least. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:48:50 CET Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Fate of the 1000 wizards & NoS draining Entropy Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed If sombody summarised this I'll put it up, otherwise it'll probably go on the backburner for a little while if I'm going to find it. shawn stanley ***************** I'd love to help, but I didn't keep track of all the e-mails on the subject. Is there anybody who kept them? Would he/she want to summarize/collate them into a sort of article to be posted by Shawn? Federico _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:43:57 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Wendar Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I�m reposting this message with the right URL (sorry, my mistake): 1) In the process of expanding my web site I came to the mapping of Wendar and decided to add some more villages to the 8m/hex map. I'd like you all to take a look at a Thibault Sarlat's Map that I modified with the location of these three villages: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/wendar8m.gif The villages are: Northwood - pop 1900 - Has one of the biggest shirines dedicated to Korrigans Kevar - pop 1500 - This one is quoted in MA as being the hometown of Bengarian Doriath - pop 980 - This new village, named after the former King of Alfhein, is the command center of the Alfhein Elves in Wendar. The clanmasters are holding concil here. What do you think? 2) Also during my research I noticed something quite odd. The entries 1016 and 1015 for Wendar in the MA (at Shawn's page) seen to have the east-west directions inverted in the whole text. For example: "Wendarians are the Elven Pass to the southeast, which leads directly to Oakwall" (but Oakwall is in southwestern Wendar!). Could someone check that? Darkblood. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:47:46 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Mystara�s Map Navigator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I�m reposting this message with the right URL (sorry, my mistake): Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ ) Nort 1 = Wendar/Glantri border to the city of Wendar East 3 = Western part of the Northern Reaches (this one was hard) Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:31:23 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: Mystara�s Map Navigator Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Ricardo Matheus wrote: > > > Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) > > > > Nort 1 = Wendar/Glantri border to the city of Wendar > > East 3 = Western part of the Northern Reaches (this one was hard) > >You forgot the URL: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ > >The maps are excellent. However, now 0.jpg (Glantri) has disappeared! > >H�vard Sometimes I just don�t get what happens in Geocities, I didn�t make any changes or anything in 0.gif (Glantri). It just, exactly as you said, disapeared! I already tried to re-upload it three times and nothing happened. I�ll see to it (even if I have to send an ill tempered mail to Geocities) Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:54:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Thibault Sarlat Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mystara=B4s?= Map Navigator MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit you should move to another type of free provider. may i recommend Multimania(www.multimania.com) or easyspace.com Ricardo Matheus a �crit : > >On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Ricardo Matheus wrote: > > > > > Two new maps added to the Mystara's Map navigator ( http:// (...) ) > > > > > > Nort 1 = Wendar/Glantri border to the city of Wendar > > > East 3 = Western part of the Northern Reaches (this one was hard) > > > >You forgot the URL: > >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/ > > > >The maps are excellent. However, now 0.jpg (Glantri) has disappeared! > > > >H�vard > > Sometimes I just don�t get what happens in Geocities, I didn�t make any > changes or anything in 0.gif (Glantri). It just, exactly as you said, > disapeared! I already tried to re-upload it three times and nothing > happened. I�ll see to it (even if I have to send an ill tempered mail to > Geocities) > > Darkblood > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. -- Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:35:53 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Fate of the 1000 wizards & NoS draining Entropy / Message Archives MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> If sombody summarised this I'll put it up, otherwise it'll probably go on the backburner for a little while if I'm going to find it. shawn stanley ***************** I'd love to help, but I didn't keep track of all the e-mails on the subject. Is there anybody who kept them? Would he/she want to summarize/collate them into a sort of article to be posted by Shawn? Federico << For those of you who are unaware, you can see all of the previous messages on WotC's archive site. In fact, this is where I read all of the MML's messages (it helps to keep the clutter out of my mailbox...). The site is: http://209.67.104.4/archives/mystara-l.html Hope this helps. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:31:31 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Shawn J." Subject: Coin Shipments (was Karameikan Economy) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/00 2:57:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, mr-dead@LEMMING-LAND.FSNET.CO.UK writes: > The Karameikan Royal Mint is located in a secret location in Threshold. > Baron Halaran sends the newly minted coin to Specularum (Mirros) hidden in > logs, not for bandits to ambush the coin shipments. I don't know how they'd > get away with the buoyancy problems, but its a good idea if they can. Great idea! The coins would be inserted using magic to shape a space inside the logs without opening them (magic likely learned from elves) and the log would bear royal markings on the ends and side for later indentification. These special logs are known by all lumber workers to be the Duke's "select" lumber. To keep loggers at Threshold from suspecting anything, they are instructed to select a certain amount of the finest lumber, have it marked with the Ducal symbol, and send it downriver with the rest. These red-herrings help mask the true coin- carrying logs (which bear a mark that, although nearly identical, has a little-noticed variation indicating its true cargo). Two days before logs are sent downstream to Specularum (once every two weeks), a inspector comes from Tarnskeep to "ensure the Duke's select lumber is the finest of the lot". Really, it is a cover for the Baron's agents while they insert coin bags into the special logs. The inspector oversees the process, as the agents brand the royal symbol on all the Duke's lumber and covertly alter the royal symbol on any log holding "cargo". Some of the Duke's "select" lumber gets intercepted at Kelvin. There, members of the Duke's Elvenguard (a detachment that is for all intents, permanent and handles only coin-"smuggling" duties) remove the cargo from some of the coin logs. These coins are used to pay wages to Kelvin's townguard, any Baronial expenses, and the wages of soldiers at the Duke's Road Keep far to the north. The Baron does not get these for free though! He exchanges an equal weight of foreign silver coinage that is then taken by horse to the Threshold mint. Only a fourth of the mint's output is made from melted down foreign coinage; the rest comes from local mines. The exchange system with Kelvin serves to disperse the new coins more widely. As an added security measure, small riverboat patrols keep watch on log groupings as they float past Verge, then Kelvin, and finally as they approach Specularum. As for bouyancy, a coin logs sit lower in the water than a normal log, but small "shipments" ensure logs are never too heavy to travel fast. Fewer coins per log are also less of a risk. Should one somehow be lost or stolen, the loss of revenue would be neglible. With regular bi-monthly shipments, a steady flow of new coins can be easily maintained even during most winter months. Thanks ~ Shawn J. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:10:09 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Shawn J." Subject: Re: 3E Denial feat, first draft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 10/28/00 10:57:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: > > Prerequisites: Halfling, resident in the Five Shires, > > To generalize this one a bit, we may want to change the requirement > to "resident of Halfling homeland", of which the Five Shires would be > the only such region that qualifies in the Known World region of Brun. > Then that ability could be selectively extended to other Halfling > homelands such as Leeha in Norwold. I think this is inadvisable, only because Gaz 8 specifically states (p.3, under Denial) "This power will only work within the Five Shires, as it draws on the inherent forces of the land." I have a theory that denial is linked to Blackflame. The quote above and the fact that a denial made within 30' of Blackflame [p.3, Player's Booklet] is powered by it (allowing the denying hin to suffer no hit point loss) seem to hint that denial ability may come from a sort of indirect exposure to Blackflame "radiation". The vague reference (above) to "forces of the land" could refer to Blackflame--which also seems to have some magic-negation characteristics (see p. 17, Protective Blackflame Powers). So I would theory that if Leeha has Blackflame, the stretch is not so great to believe Hin there have denial abilities, but if not . . . ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:46:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: 3E Denial feat, first draft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Could not denial be also linked to belief in the High Heroes???? I like the Blackflame proposal by Shawn J, but maybe it could be added that denial is developed upon a set of beliefs, which give hin the willpower required for the feat. The Shires "land" acts as a channeler of that belief, but maybe in other halfling-inhabited lands, such as Leeha, belief in the High Heroes has also been traditional for quite a few centuries, and the land has "absorbed" it... of course, a table could be devised, making the denial % weaker in halfing traditional settings other than the Shires as they are newer in "belief and nurture of the land". Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:51:45 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Ivory Plume of Maat? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In the Bruce Heard "Dragon" July 1991 (forgot the issue number) magazine article "Who's Who Among Dragons," there are two magic items mentioned that I'm not familiar with. Anyone will to share where these came from and briefly outline what they do? Ivory Plume of Maat Talisman of Elemental Travel Nice article, incidentally, and it gives me some ideas of where to take my Karameikos and Five Shires campaigns later on ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 19:29:27 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Web Warlock Subject: New Witch stuff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boo! Happy Halloween and a Joyous Samhain! First I want to thank everyone on this list who gave me input on my "Wokani" revision. Of all of the *D&D lists I am on you all are among the most helpful (the Ravenloft people have a great list too!). Anyway, here is an annoucment of my new witch netbook. I am going to put the witch away for a while. Maybe I will develop my "Holy Lands of Glantri". If so, I'll be asking for some help from all the experts here! I have just released the first major supplement to my "Complete Netbook of Witches & Warlocks", Eldritch Witchery. Inside you will find corrections and addendum to my Witch class. Also you will find new traditions that are unique to many game worlds, both official and on-line! There are a few new monsters, including a new race of demons, a few new spells, a couple of magic items and three Goddesses in "Faiths and Avatars" format. You can find this at http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/. While you are there, you can also get copies of the first "Complete Netbook of Witches & Warlocks", the "Sanity in Ravenloft: Masque of the Red Death" netbook, and my update to my witch class for the new 3rd Edition D&D game in the "D20 Conversion Guide". Plus stop by and check out all the controversy surrounding my "Dark Dungeons" parody and check out my guestbook, signed by Gary Gygax! So spend this chilly Halloween curled up with a witch! Warlock. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:24:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Night dragons In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001028195039.007d4100@10.1.1.1> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:50 PM 10/28/00 -0700, you wrote: > > Is my memory lacking, or are there major discrepencies between the two >versions? If there are discrepencies, I'd personally go with a policy of >inclusion: two types of breath weapons, undead and lots of >illusion/enchantment spell abilities. There are definite discrepancies. Personally, I'd go more like the original version, with just the one breath weapon (heat draining darkness). In fact, I'd be inclined to (under 3E rules) make Night Dragon a template that is applied to any dragon (their description in, I believe, issue #163 and in the CoM boxed set has them as chaotic dragons that have converted to Entropy and become undead). > Also, I'm only up to the Princess Ark's arrival in Northern Davania and >the plant-centric kingdom there, but is what Synn was guarding back in >Oceania ever explained in more detail? Nope. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:07:02 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:50 PM 10/30/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Lesser importance to the Alphatians, to be sure; their disregard for others is >palpable. Then, on the other hand, we have whining from Alphatians about how, when >rising up against the Alphatians, the Thyatians stole "their" (Alphatian's) land >(by, what? seeking freedom and encouraging others who were conquered by the >Alphatians to rise up against their tyranny as well) - point remains unchanged, >really: To put not too fine a point on things, let it be said that neither Empire is particularly pleasant, no matter how we try and paint a picture in either case. James has noted Alphatia's unpleasant points well and probably mostly completely. How about Thyatis? DotE DM Book, p.5: "... General Zendrolion killed Lucinius and his colleagues... claiming he'd discovered that Lucinius had been driven mad by his Alphatian magics. Such, of course, was not the truth. Zendrolion wanted the throne of Thyatis from the first. Once Alphatia was diverted and Lucinius was no longer necessary to Thyatian independence, Zendrolion assassinated him- and the kings visiting him- and claimed rulership of all three nations..." Same page, next paragraph: "It's true that Thyatian politicians are the most treacherous and self-serving of any in the world..." Not trying to start flames, or drag this controversy out any longer (not doing a good job either) but just trying to point out that neither Thyatis nor Alphatia is quite the picture that it seems either side may sometimes try to paint them, and that both are just as duplicitous, treacherous, and callous towards those they consider "lesser" people as the other. As for complaints of the "Dupuisan Heresy" rewriting history and remaking Alphatia (which may or may not have any basis, I'm not taking a stand), I'll just point out that she's not the only one, and others have done the same on their own (whether they argue it is simply "clarification" or something else). Case in point, from James and Caroletti's own recent Thyatian timeline (Tome of Mystara vol. 3, http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome) "AC 0: ...Lucinius and Zendrolion decide to invite the Kings of the Pearl Islands and Ochalea to Thyatis City to sign a treaty of alliance, but they plan on murdering them. In order for the ruse to succeed, Lucinius agrees to allow Zendrolion to "assassinate" him as well, and to concoct the story of the three King's "madness" as an excuse. Lucinius then plans to rise again as a lich. This goes almost too well, the trusting Kings of Ochalea and the Pearl Islands are slain by General Zendrolion along with Lucinius. Zendrolion is then crowned Emperor of Thyatis, ruling over Ochalea, the Pearl Islands, and the western half of the Isle of Dawn as well as Thyatis, Hattias, and Kerendas... Lucinius becomes a lich, and uses Impersonate spells to appear as a mere advisor of Emperor Zendrolion." Admittedly, the above doesn't completely absolve the Thyatians of their treachery (as perhaps some of the "Dupuisan Heresy" did towards Alphatians), but it does rewrite history in ways from which they had previously been established (in particular as regards the cooperation of Lucinius and Zendrolion). Such things are bound to happen, as history shows, and always will methinks. People see what they want to see, and write about what they want to write, even if it means putting things in a different light than others view them. So, I guess I'm saying this is kind of a silly debate, to me. But then, I just dragged myself into it, so what do I know? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 18:50:28 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Night dragons In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001030192429.007f9210@pop.wans.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:24 10/30/00 -0800, Andrew Theisen wrote: >There are definite discrepancies. Personally, I'd go more like the original >version, with just the one breath weapon (heat draining darkness). In fact, >I'd be inclined to (under 3E rules) make Night Dragon a template that is >applied to any dragon (their description in, I believe, issue #163 and in >the CoM boxed set has them as chaotic dragons that have converted to >Entropy and become undead). I'm planning on doing up a template myself, since it's so easy to do. But with other stuff on my plate right now, I may not get to it for a long, long time. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:17:57 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia This is a good point to touch on, because it points to an absolute difference between the two methods of handling things: >> Case in point, from James and Caroletti's own recent Thyatian timeline >> Admittedly, the above doesn't completely absolve the Thyatians of their treachery (as perhaps some of the "Dupuisan Heresy" did towards Alphatians) << Completely? It doesn't absolve them at all! Indeed, it makes Lucinius, the "hero" of the "Struggle for Freedom" complicit in the treachery! While Lucinius committed some dubious acts in the official history as well, they could all be more-or-less seen as part of the war against the Alphatian enemy, and thus, while perhaps not seen as good, not seen as completely evil, either. He was, in that history, however, one of the victims of Zendrolion's treachery - not a participant in it. What is he in our version? He's an ACTIVE PARTICIPANT IN THE MURDER OF HIS ALLIES. I can't see how that can be interpreted as an attempt at absolving EITHER Zendrolion OR Lucinius - who, lets repeat for emphasis, now goes from one of Zendrolion's victims, to being an active participant (and, indeed, instigator) of the entire episode. And I really *DO* think people should read our version of the Thyatian history. Are there episodes of valor? Yes. Are there plenty of episodes of its opposite? Check it out and see. Indeed, though the history is written from a Thyatian point of view, to claim that our version is some attempt to "absolve" the Thyatians of their bad aspects is an inapt accusation. Indeed, we throw in *new* "bad" stuff of our own invention. Do the "Dupuisians" do that with respect to Alphatia? Do those who write stuff for Alphatia? I seem to recall a version of the "history of Alphatia after Landfall" whereby the author claimed all of Bellissaria was absolutely uninhabited when the Alphatians arrived, so that he could minimize any "bad" things they might do. But, by all means, go to the Tome of Mystara #3 (http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome) and read our version. If there's *ANY* "fan-written" history of a Mystaran nation, written by one of that nation's -philes, that comes anywhere close to ours in making mention of flaws as well as "high points and achievements", I'll BOIL AND EAT my old copy of DotE, mail the new box I bought this summer to Andrew or someone of his choice, and send the rest of my Mystara gaming materiel to the author of said history (note that to qualify for this, such a history must already be written and posted somewhere - no writing up a really bad version of the history of your favorite nation now so that you can get the free goodies). It's kind of. . .strange. . .to have someone read something that has Lucinius plot and scheme with Zendrolium to kill the Kings of Ochalea & the Pearl Islands, cover it up, and then both go on to take control over the entire place, ruling as despots (something the history specifically says about Zendrolium's reign), ultimately becoming undead, and see that as IN ANY WAY "absolving" either of them. I'd laugh, but I'm too puzzled and befuddled, trying to figure out how anyone could reach a conclusion that such a description even partially absolves either of them, rather than (as I would say) exacerbating the crime (before it was Zendrolium on his own, now it's the leader of the whole "Struggle for Freedom" who helps plan the betrayal of his allies. Absolution to be found in that? For god's sake, where???) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:21:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Ivory Plume of Maat? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll reply in more detail tomorrow, if someone else has not done so. The Ivory Plume is an artifact detailed in the Master's set and the Talisman of Elemental Travel comes from the Companions' set. ----- Original Message ----- From: Beau To: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 7:51 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] Ivory Plume of Maat? > In the Bruce Heard "Dragon" July 1991 (forgot the issue number) magazine > article "Who's Who Among Dragons," there are two magic items mentioned that > I'm not familiar with. Anyone will to share where these came from and > briefly outline what they do? > > Ivory Plume of Maat > Talisman of Elemental Travel > > Nice article, incidentally, and it gives me some ideas of where to take my > Karameikos and Five Shires campaigns later on ... > > BEAU > http://www.LBY3.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:34:44 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Thyatian History Screed One more thing about that Lucinius & Zendrolium plotting to kill the Kings of Ochalea & the Pearl Islands thing: That is the one place in our version of the history where I deliberately and conciously made a change from the "canon" version, rather than adding more detail (there's at least one more place, one I know of anyhow, where there is a discrepancy from the "canon" version and our version, but that's because I overlooked something, and I plan on fixing it in a subsiquent edit when I get a chance to go through the whole thing again). In other respects, my version is as faithful to "canon" as I could possibly make it, changing nothing but just adding more detail (for a sixteen century history, one could easily write multi-volume books of several hundred pages each. We kept it short). We deliberately changed one thing. What was our change? Was it along the lines of saying "all Alphatian commoners are treated as happy Citizens" or "of course the Jennites would be happy to be part of NACE once they are made Citizens" or other, similar "benigh" revisions of this or that Mystaran nation's history? Did we say, for example, that "oh, as it turns out, Zendrolium really believed the Kings of Ochalea, the Pearl Islands, and Lucinius himself were mad plotters, having been decieved by misinformation spread by the Alphatians, so yes he killed them, but he really thought he was doing the right thing, he was actually like Stefan"? Nope - our "change" makes things WORSE (I repeat that again) - Lucinius goes from being one of Zendrolium's victims to plotting with him to kill the others, Lucinius goes from being a "flawed hero" of the Struggle to an "evil schemer" along with the despotic Zendrolium. THAT'S the change we made. The rest is as faithful as possible. Indeed, the version we submitted to the Tome originally contained extensive "footnotes" (with layered coding), but the editors of the Tome (as they explain in their "printing" of it) eliminated those for sake of space. Those "footnotes" are almost entirely referencing what "canon history" event is being described in this or that episode in our history. I.E. we do what NO OTHER MYSTARA-FAN DOES: and provide an extensive reference, pointing you to sources that you can check yourself to see if we're distorting anything in a major way. That version, our "footnoted" version, can be found starting at: http://www.geocities.com/augustium/Thyatis/History/PreImperial.htm Note that Netscape Navigator will generally work better than other brousers in viewing that page. Click on the superscript numbers to view the "footnotes". Again, it seems someone thinks I should have shame for something that I don't see as shameful at all. Indeed, it'll be interesting to see if and when someone writes as balanced a history, with both good and bad deeds done by the "protaganist peoples" of, say, Karameikos or the Five Shires or Ierendi or Minrothad. . .or Alphatia. If I were to wait for that, though, I know I'd be waiting a LONG time. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:33:20 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:17:57 -0500 Evil Genius writes: > But, by all means, go to the Tome of Mystara #3 > (http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome) and read our version. If > there's *ANY* "fan-written" history of a Mystaran nation, written by > one of that nation's -philes, that comes anywhere close to ours in > making mention of flaws as well as "high points and achievements", > I'll BOIL AND EAT my old copy of DotE, mail the new box I bought > this summer to Andrew or someone of his choice, and send the rest of > my Mystara gaming materiel to the author of said history (note that > to qualify for this, such a history must already be written and > posted somewhere - no writing up a really bad version of the history > of your favorite nation now so that you can get the free goodies). Heh. Well, it's not up in timeline form (yet), but there's the Darokinian history found in my Houses of Darokin posts (Al-Azrad is coming soon... really!). Plenty of low points in there... the Night of Bloody Knives, the Darokinian Civil Wars, the conquest of Selencia through treachary and deceit, the annexation of Corunglain, and several others. And of course the _really_ low points (and some of the highest) will come when I finally write "The Crisis of Darokinian Statehood: The Republic in the Great War", which will answer question like how Akesoli and Akkoras were captured and liberated so quickly, why Karameikos sent forces to aid Darokin, why Darokin stood by as Alfheim was invaded, and what actually _happened_ during the invasion. Don't look for that one anytime soon, though. I won't claim the prize, though... :) Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:51:20 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia In-Reply-To: <20001101022111.8EF598282@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > People see what they want to see, and write about what they want to write, > even if it means putting things in a different light than others view them. > So, I guess I'm saying this is kind of a silly debate, to me. Well, as complete newbie to the entire debate I find the discussion utterly fascinating. Not that I am taking any one view as the "most right", I am learning more about Mystara that is deepening my appreciation for the setting. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:56:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Truth About Alphatia Mystara wrote: >> And of course the _really_ low points (and some of the highest) will come when I finally write . . . Don't look for that one anytime soon, though. << >> I won't claim the prize, though... :) << Remember: only stuff already written & posted qualifies, anyhow. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:07:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Let the Criticism begin! Everyone is hereby invited to read "A History of the Thyatians", at: http://www.geocities.com/augustium/Thyatis/History/PreImperial.htm and critique it. Slams (including undeserved one's, like Andrew's) welcome, along with critiques, suggestions for additions & modifications, or outright flames regarding how badly written and concieved it is are welcomed. Good ideas (whether they are "good" or "bad" episodes), whether they be suggested additions or suggested modifications, will be added to the next version. Absurd ideas will be treated as such, but are welcomed as part of the Criticizing process. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 02:13:38 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Halflings and religion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-30 11:54:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, lby3@LBY3.COM writes: > From the Gaz8 Player's Booklet, Page 5, in the midst of a section > called, of all things, "Social Standing:" > "Halflings venerate elders but regard most religious behavior with > head-shaking bemusement. This bewilderment is particularly strong in cases > such as the Emirates of Ylaruam where such behavior involves cruelty to > others, uneven hospitality, or treatment of folk simply because of belief. > They also view with disdain hardships visited upon anyone in the name of a > creed. > "Faith, order, and clear aims are good things, but there should be > limits to such beliefs. When others are hurt, deprived, enslaved, or compelled > to direct their lives in certain strict manners because of one's religion, > that line has been crossed. A halfling will fearlessly tell even a cleric > so; the support of some Immortal or other is no excuse for one's own > excessive actions." That all makes sense -- Halflings then like "faith, order, and clear aims" (which indicates a bias towards Law, BTW) but strongly disapprove of any form of religious fanaticism harmful to sentient dignity. The more tolerant Clerics do well among the Halflings and provide useful service, while those who think their way is the only way are at best scorned (if the don't press matters too much) and at worse driven away (if they try to impose their way by force). But in stark contrast to Glantrians, it would seem that Halflings are strongly inclined to give practicioners of divine magic the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves to be other than benevolent in their intentions. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 02:25:16 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: 3E Denial feat, first draft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-10-31 7:13:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, KeepRofZ@CS.COM writes: > I think this is inadvisable, only because Gaz 8 specifically states (p.3, > under Denial) "This power will only work within the Five Shires, as it > draws on the inherent forces of the land." > I have a theory that denial is linked to Blackflame. The quote above > and the fact that a denial made within 30' of Blackflame [p.3, Player's > Booklet] is powered by it (allowing the denying hin to suffer no hit point > loss) > seem to hint that denial ability may come from a sort of indirect exposure > to > Blackflame "radiation". The vague reference (above) to "forces of the land" > could refer to Blackflame--which also seems to have some magic-negation > characteristics (see p. 17, Protective Blackflame Powers). > So I would theory that if Leeha has Blackflame, the stretch is not so > great to believe Hin there have denial abilities, but if not . . . Agreed -- the prerequsites for a "Halfling homeland" should include that they have had Crucibles of Blackflame lying around for a few centuries in a region mostly inhabited by Halflings over that period. In particular, Leeha in Norwold should probably qualify, but the Merry Pirates of the Hollow World (who have many Halflings among them) probably should not even though they have Halfling Masters among them. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 00:01:21 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Halflings and religion In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:13 11/1/00 EST, David Knott wrote: >That all makes sense -- Halflings then like "faith, order, and clear aims" >(which indicates a bias towards Law, BTW) IMC, I encourage all the players to think about making their characters Lawful, Good or both, although it's not required by any means. >but strongly disapprove of >any form of religious fanaticism harmful to sentient dignity. The more >tolerant Clerics do well among the Halflings and provide useful service, >while those who think their way is the only way are at best scorned (if >the don't press matters too much) and at worse driven away (if they >try to impose their way by force). But in stark contrast to Glantrians, >it would seem that Halflings are strongly inclined to give practicioners >of divine magic the benefit of the doubt until they prove themselves to >be other than benevolent in their intentions. Halflings are good people. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.