========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 14:43:32 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: She's baaack! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau wrote: > At 15:25 11/07/2000 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > > > >It's good to be home... THYATIAN ARMY FILE No. 76/b Code Orion 3 Subject: Valerya Sender: ISS, XXC, PL Message: Good News. She's back. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 09:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: She's baaack! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > It's good to be home... It's also good to see you back! Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:24:18 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <20001107161037.107.qmail@web1204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, John Calvin wrote: > Although for the most part I do like the Mystaros timeline, I never > did really like this portion. It just makes things more complicated > than they need to be. If both the Emerondians and the Pyrithians are > descendants of the Beagle, then we only need one colonization event... > the initial crash of the craft. This way the Emerondians are a part of > Blackmoor from the start. Any greenies we find around Mystara space > (ie the Pyrithians) can be assumed to be "colonists of Blackmoor." I > don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that during its later years > Blackmoor managed to reach space. I agree. Although I generally like to reconcile non-canon material, the spaceage of Blackmoor becomes a bit too extreme for my taste. Like you, I dont think its unreasonable to think that Blackmoorians reached space, but their having too much influence in space would make it harder for that civilization to be completely wiped out. > I actually don't have a problem with "Grens" developing magical/and or > psionic abilities once they reach Mystara. Especially if you consider > that 1) they appear to be able to manipulate genetics, and 2) perhaps > they can interbreed with the native (and magic wielding) populations. Considering what youve written below this makes sense. So, a large group of grens or maybe half-grens developed magic. Some of these established a colony in space during Blackmoors space age and eventually became the Pyrithians. Later these Pyrithians returned to Mystara and became the Emerondians. Okay, thats a good theory :) > >> > 3) Canon sources indicate that Mystara is not known by the Galactic > Federation. Also Benekander is the only survivor of the Beagle. > << > > Not true. St. Stephen survived, along with plenty of other crew > members. The captain survived. The ship survived. Even if we assume > that time traveling PCs take care of these intruders during their > adventures, it is not a far stretch to assume that some of those > greenies, somewhere, managed to escape the Beagle and live long > natural lives (and produce descendents). You might be able to say the > Benekander is the only Beagle crew member to survive to the present > day...that might be true (although I do have plans for a certian St. > Stephen and a stasis chamber), but I just can't imagine that no > descendents of the crew would be found in present day Mystara. Ah, thanks for clarifying this. I don't own any of the BM products, so my knowledge of them are based on what ive been able to squeeze out of listmembers. :) > >> > A Theory of Reconciliation: > Epsilon Eridani was a far outpost of the early Federation. However, it was > abandoned, quite a few gren families were left isolated on that > world. Through the generations, the Grens adapted, learning to use magic, > but losing some of their other abilities. Eventually they became the > Pyrithians, a great civilization known for their artificially (or > magically) bred insect servants. > << > > Certainly St. Stephens Cult of the Frog can explain this just as well. > IIRC that little group was involved in genetic experimentation. Yep. See my revised explaination theory above. This means Epsilon Eridani is out of the picture so far; the only thing we know about that system is that there is a civilization based on magic there (Gold box), and it has probably not had any contact with Mystaras system. I'd be interested in seeing more info on St Stephen and his cult of the Frog, though. Its one of these things that keeps getting referred to on the list which still leaves me a bit puzzled. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:31:43 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <56.3040860.273a2f83@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, David Knott wrote: > As another poster indicated, it is an open question whether there were > other survivors of the Beagle who managed to get off the planet (but not > out of the Mystaran solar system, obviously) or the Pyrithians came in > another lost Federation ship that they eventually cannibalized to set up > their asteroid colony. Yeah. As I noted in my response to John Calvins mail, I think it would make the most sense if the Pyrithians were descendants of the Beagle crew survivors. My impression from WotI was that Benekander was the sole survivor, but with new information, I can accept this. I don't care much for too many Federation ships in Mystaras solar system. > BTW -- the Oards would be descended from the Grens who stayed > in the Federation, not from any colonists on Mystara. They would > know of Aelos but not Mystara. I dont own the Aelos module (CM?). How does this reconcile with Marco's theory that Aelos occupies the same orbit as Mystara? IIRC the original Oards (at least as described in AC9) are from the future. Could this be a separate race of Oards, from the one appearing in Federation Space? Im basing this on non canon ideas mainly by Andrew Theisen whose suggestion was that an Oard civilization exists presently and is in contact with the Galactic Federation. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:33:02 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: She's baaack! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > Hello everyone! Welcome back Jennifer! :) H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:33:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, SteelAngel wrote: > On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote: > > > Aren't there canon information in CM7 The Tree of Life different > from those > given in the Immortal Gold Box? > > Not really. CM7 doesn't do very much to contradict any Gold Box sources. What sort of information is there about space in CM7? Is that where the constalations of Mystara are described? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 10:35:00 CST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Byron D. Molix" Subject: [Trade] Ierendi Gaz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I made a mistake and bought two copies of the Ierendi Gazetteer. Before I attempt to sell it to an online store for credit, I thought I'd see if anybody wanted to trade me for a Gaz I don't have. I have Alfheim, Atruaghin Clans, Dawn of the Emperors, Emirates of Ylaruam, Northern Reaches, and all the Hollow World Gazetteers. Pretty much looking for Darokin or Minrothad, but will take first offer. Shipping costs should be the same both ways, so there's no additional fees whatsoever beyond that. Please email me at lockheart1930@hotmail.com (so as not to clog up the list) if interested. Byron _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:46:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, [iso-8859-1] H=E5vard wrote: > On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, SteelAngel wrote: >=20 > > On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Federico Kaftal wrote: > > > > > Aren't there canon information in CM7 The Tree of Life different > > from those > given in the Immortal Gold Box? > > > > Not really. CM7 doesn't do very much to contradict any Gold Box sources= =2E >=20 > What sort of information is there about space in CM7? Nothing.=20 > Is that where the constalations of Mystara are described? Yep. There is a constellation chart, and the elven names of some planets.= =20 Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 11:29:21 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm going to move some statements around to make them easier to respond to. >> Considering what youve written below this makes sense. So, a large group of grens or maybe half-grens developed magic. Some of these established a colony in space during Blackmoors space age and eventually became the Pyrithians. Later these Pyrithians returned to Mystara and became the Emerondians. Okay, thats a good theory :) << I was thinking along slightly different lines. 1) The Beagle crashes. This introduces "Grens" or whatever they are, to Mystara. 2) Blackmoor civ rises, and developes both stong magic and technology. 3) Blackmoor reaches space. Some Grens (which were integrated into BK society journey with the project). 4) Blackmoor explodes, causing the GRoF. Small pockets of Blackmoorians may survive (those that become the Taymorans, some Dwarves, some Elves, some "Grens"). The planet bound Grens eventually become the Emerondians, while those who were on the space expidition become the Pyrithians. This gives them plenty of time and cause to diverge in whatever ways an individual DM sees fit. I think this works, although I havn't read my VotPA for quite a while, so I could be wrong. Does it state anywhere that the Pyrithians send colonizers to the surface of Mystara? All civs on the surface of the planet are literally bombed back to the stone age. >> I agree. Although I generally like to reconcile non-canon material, the spaceage of Blackmoor becomes a bit too extreme for my taste. Like you, I dont think its unreasonable to think that Blackmoorians reached space, but their having too much influence in space would make it harder for that civilization to be completely wiped out. << There are 2 possibilities that I can think of in order to reconcile this. 1) Blackmoor causes the GRoF shortly after it reaches space. Its space colonies still relied heavily upon support from their mother nation/planet, and when that support is cut off, those colonies either dwindle and die, or must use all of their resources to simply stay alive. Over the years they may loose whatever technology they had (as they don't have the infrastructure to maintain it). 2) [This is my personal favorite, although I realize not all will like it] The Blackmoorian space colonies survived, but something either chased them out of the area, or is atively keeping them away from Mystara. IMC once the immortals saw the devastation caused by the GRoF, they figured that it would be best to rid their space of all remnants of Blackmoor that survived. The immortals themselves destroy or drive off what is left of Blackmoor in the solar system. The nice thing about this is that I can have Blackmoorians showing up at any time...and boy will they be pissed. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 12:32:09 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> I'd be interested in seeing more info on St Stephen and his cult of the Frog, though. Its one of these things that keeps getting referred to on the list which still leaves me a bit puzzled. << I'll give a quick synopsis (done entirely from memory, so forgive me if I get some things wrong). Here goes: The Beagle crash lands on Mystara and after waiting for quite a while, they realize that no one from the Federation is going to come to their rescue. The Captain orders non-essential crew into stasis. He decides that the "non-interference" directive will be adhered to, and wants to minimize contact with the outside world as much as possible. One dissatisfied crew member (Stephen) decides to disobey orders. He, and some fellows, steal a ship's skiff and head out to the country side. The captain detects their betrayal and shoots their ship out of the sky. They crash in a swamp and are left for dead. Stephen interacts with the locals, but finds them somewhat wanting. He does find a species on Mystara that he takes a liking to however...frogs. They are nice and green after all. Stephen and the others start performing experiments on the frogs to make them more intelligent (and much bigger and meaner as well). They also start splicing frog DNA into local population (captives) and brain wash them to serve their needs. Thus the Cult of the Frog is born. PCs are asked to investigate the swamp where they confront "St. Stephen" and his cult. IIRC it is recomended that Stephen escape the encounter. After Stephens escape (from the ship) the captain gets a little paranoid. He starts implanting his own crew with mind control devices. Some more crew members freak out and try to leave the ship. They crash into a Blackmoorian farm, and the PCs are drawn into the story again. Blackmoor wants information on this flying craft (as well as possibly allies or failing that at least weapons) in order to help them face their myriad trials (problems with neighbors being what they are...very violent). The PCs journey to the City of the Gods (ie the Beagle) and confront the captain and his brainwashed and robot servants. The Froggies, still hurting over their defeat in the swamp, are also out causing troubles. They trail the PCs and make problems. IIRC they may also try and infiltrate the ship in order to get more technology. For the life of me I can't remember what happens at the end of that one. Hmmm...I wonder if I even read that far. Anyway, as to what happens to the Cult of the Frog after that, your guess is as good as mine. I'd like to think that some of them manage to hang around in present day Mystara (either as Emmerondians, or Pyrithians, or whatever else). There was also free adventure on WotCs site...can't remember wat is was called. IIRC the number was I5 or something. I thought it would be very adaptable for Mystara. Two great nations are going to war, and are running out of supplies (a shoe in for Thyatis and Alphatia). One of the nations has just opened up a wilderness area (Thyatian Hinterlands) and intends to start logging there in order to build more ships for their fleets. The PCs are sent to start this task. Once there, they meet up with various different frog-like humanoids (bullywugs, etc...) which is a nice tie in to Blackmoor and the Cult of the Frog. IIRC they also find a strange monolith (tie in to Nithia) which transports them to the moon. On the moon they find a colony of phase spiders (tie in to araneas), which are willing to do trade with them. The spiders have access to a rather resiliant reddish metal (tie in to Savage Coast). Thus the PCs get the needed war supplies for whichever country they are working for. I have the adventure downloaded at home, so if you're interested I could give you more details. Hope that helps some. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 21:44:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable H=E5vard wrote: > I dont own the Aelos module (CM?). How does this reconcile with = Marco's > theory that Aelos occupies the same orbit as Mystara? > IIRC the original Oards (at least as described in AC9) are from the > future. Could this be a separate race of Oards, from the one appearing = in > Federation Space? Read my review of CM6: Where Chaos Reigns at http://thing.slashnull.org/review/adventures.php for a little more information. Note that I know nothing of any fan = material involving Oards. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 17:08:04 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Dragon Annual #5 In-Reply-To: <20001108205157.48DC5812E@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I just got the Annual #5 in the mail, and read the article titled "The Royal Heralds, Her Majesty's Secret Servants". Well, it has an interesting prestige class which it has named the Herald. I was considering whipping up some prestige classes for the Red Steel setting and there already is a group of people who call themselves "Heralds". However, Savage Coast Heralds (which are only found in Belayne) resemble nothing like this Herald prestige class in Annual #5. Belaynish Heralds are something akin to medieval journalists. But there is good news really. This prestige class seems a direct match for the Savage Coast "Spy" character kit. I wish they in fact just called this Herald prestige class in Annual #5 the Spy anyway because that's what they are. Not much Mystara related info, but for the Savage Coast fans trying a 3e conversion this prestige class can reduce your workload. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 15:26:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Dragon Annual #5 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:08 11/08/2000 -0600, Eric Anondson wrote: >I just got the Annual #5 in the mail, and read the article titled "The Royal >Heralds, Her Majesty's Secret Servants". Well, it has an interesting >prestige class which it has named the Herald. I was reasonably impressed with the annual, and am planning on using the quickie Dungeon adventure in it in my Five Shires campaign, linking it with Azem, the gold dragon from "Who's Who Among Dragons" from issue #171. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:45:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Daniel Eustace Subject: Hello! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hey fellow Mystarans! I finally got myself onto the MML. I'm just sending this to introduce myself, and all. I live around Boston, MA and work in biotech. I've been playing since the early 80s and have nearly every Mystara product there is (I am missing a few though. Anyone know where I can find X11 or B5?). I have an on-going campaign that started in 1984 and is still going strong and in-fact, has split into 3 seperate sub-campaigns (OD&D). My campaign history is different from "canon" in alot of ways, because I had to make up alot of stuff before there was canon! But I still use most of the GAZ stuff, though. I've done a bit for the almanac, and I did some more this year, but I'm still kind of on the fringes. Hopefully, time will allow for more contributions in the future, both to the MA, this list, and any other interesting projects (where can I find these Tomes of Mystara?). I'm enjoying the discussions so far! BTW, to the guy trying to get the invisible ink thing to work, try lemon juice. It might do the trick. Later, Dan Eustace ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:17:48 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Dragon Annual #5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau wrote: > At 17:08 11/08/2000 -0600, Eric Anondson wrote: > >I just got the Annual #5 in the mail, and read the article titled "The Royal > >Heralds, Her Majesty's Secret Servants". Well, it has an interesting > >prestige class which it has named the Herald. > > I was reasonably impressed with the annual, and am planning on using the > quickie Dungeon adventure in it in my Five Shires campaign, linking it with > Azem, the gold dragon from "Who's Who Among Dragons" from issue #171. > > Could you elaborate? Is the background very compatible with the Shires? Or was there considerable reworking involved? Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 16:03:34 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Dragon Annual #5 In-Reply-To: <3A09ED2C.DD2ADA18@palmchip.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:17 11/08/2000 -0800, Dave Keyser wrote: >> I was reasonably impressed with the annual, and am planning on using the >> quickie Dungeon adventure in it in my Five Shires campaign, linking it with >> Azem, the gold dragon from "Who's Who Among Dragons" from issue #171. >Could you elaborate? Is the background very compatible with the Shires? Or >was there considerable reworking involved? There's not much background at all -- it's meant to be dropped into an existing campaign. Basically, a gold dragon periodically tests good adventurers and rewards them if they can get through a mostly trap/trick dungeon. The dragon's missing, though, and jermlaine have moved in and upped the ante modestly. All I'm doing is moving the dungeon to the mountains north of Eastshire and having the dragon being Azem. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:34:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Hello! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 8 Nov 2000 18:45:56 Daniel Eustace wrote: >Hey fellow Mystarans! >I finally got myself onto the MML (snip history) > I've >done a bit for the almanac, and I did some more this year, but I'm still kind >of on the fringes. Hi Dan. I've seen some of your stuff for the MA briefly, but I had no idea you weren't on the MML (most of us are, I think)... So welcome! > Hopefully, time will allow for more contributions in the >future, both to the MA, this list, and any other interesting projects (where >can I find these Tomes of Mystara?). for the Tome of Mystara > I'm enjoying the discussions so far! > In that case you might want to check out the archives, (thanks to John Calvin for giving me the address the other day, btw!), which is: (snip rest) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 00:29:51 -0300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Vinicius R. de Moraes" Organization: Dream Entertainment & Edutainment Subject: Re: Bargle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm using him as a very powerful Necromancer. Spells? From "The Great Net Spellbook"! He's got a "Phantasmal Steed" and also has Troll Skin. People REALLY got scared. Remember the MiB stuff? Anyne traying to give the players valuable info get itself killed via arrow (normal stuff, players lokk around, usually Iron Ring stuff) or that weird Darth Vader remote strangling (Baaaaaaaargle!). You know, you die. Illuminati saying (mine, acutally.. or maybe not): "Ignorance is longevity!". :-p Cillidox and Terari are the opposing forces. Players are - still - pawns, at 9th-12hlevel. The can't avoid a "Finger of Death" yet. Where does Hendiks fit in? Cheers. vini. Beau Yarbrough wrote: > > At 14:48 11/5/00 -0500, Evil Genius wrote: > > >>> I'm actually planning on using him as a major NPC in my campaign, > although the players haven't gotten that far yet. Anyone with advice on how > to run him? << > > > >I'd have him use disguises and illusions, for both himself and Ludwig, a > lot - and do things using intermediaries (expendable thugs and the like > with no provable direct connection to either of them). (snip) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2000 23:56:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Hello! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello! thanks for the lemon juice tip! I'll try it tomorrow, as iodine reacts to the whole of the pages. B5 and X11... Well, you don't need so much to finish your collection, especially if you have the hardest-to-find B10!!! I saw like two or three B5 modules at ebay auctions during the last month. I got my X11 at ebay too, but almost a year ago. It surfaces in auctions again, occasionally. Tip: B5 can be found in some OOP stores in the internet and prices at stores usually run cheaper than at ebay (in last auctions B5 rocketeed to the $15s and it's not such a rare item); X11 otherwise is better purchased through auction, you can be lucky and pay just around $20, but the few times when it appeared in a store's stock, it was far more expensive. Good luck!!! Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 05:48:22 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Mystaran axial tilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Can anyone point me to where Mystara's axial tilt is listed, for some reason can't seem to locate it. I'm playing around with the polar expeditions and wondering if the sunless areas are really so, after all there is a lot of seasonality to Mystara weather. If someone's already done all this please save me the math and share the solution. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:53:26 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaran axial tilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-09 1:27:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > Can anyone point me to where Mystara's axial tilt is listed, for some > reason can't seem to locate it. I'm playing around with the polar > expeditions and wondering if the sunless areas are really so, after all > there is a lot of seasonality to Mystara weather. If someone's already done > all this please save me the math and share the solution. As I recall, a variety of maps in published products show the Arctic/ Antarctic circles and the Northern/Southern Tropics. What are their latitudes? If any of those figures are known, then the latitude of the Northern or Southern Tropic would be the axial tilt, as would be 90 degrees minus the latitude of the Arctic/Antarctic circle. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:53:27 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Bargle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-08 9:35:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, vini@ENGINEER.COM writes: > Where does Hendiks fit in? Going by the most recent Mystaran Almanac, he and Bargle have definitely gone their separate ways. Von Hendriks is now the hero of the latest Glantrian war with Ethengar and is courting a Glantrian princess. He probably won't worry much about Bargle unless he gets an easy opportunity to strike at him, as his opportunities in Glantri are so much more promising.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:43:42 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Dragon Annual #5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-08 6:32:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, xen@VISI.COM writes: > I was considering whipping up some prestige classes for the Red Steel > setting and there already is a group of people who call themselves > "Heralds". However, Savage Coast Heralds (which are only found in Belayne) > resemble nothing like this Herald prestige class in Annual #5. Belaynish > Heralds are something akin to medieval journalists. > > But there is good news really. This prestige class seems a direct match for > the Savage Coast "Spy" character kit. I wish they in fact just called this > Herald prestige class in Annual #5 the Spy anyway because that's what they > are. Thanks for the heads up! As soon as I get my hands on that Annual I will be sure to compare its "Herald" class against Savage Coast Heralds and offer up my comments.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 02:43:47 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-08 11:38:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO writes: > I dont own the Aelos module (CM?). How does this reconcile with Marco's > theory that Aelos occupies the same orbit as Mystara? > IIRC the original Oards (at least as described in AC9) are from the > future. Could this be a separate race of Oards, from the one appearing in > Federation Space? > > Im basing this on non canon ideas mainly by Andrew Theisen whose > suggestion was that an Oard civilization exists presently and is in > contact with the Galactic Federation. The Oards in the Aelos module are obsessed with altering the history of Aelos but do nothing to alter the history of Mystara. Any assumptions I made about them are based on this premise. Activivities that go against that assumption could certainly be included in futuristic adventures that are not bound by this premise. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:33:17 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leonardo Damon Giuliani Subject: Ogg.: Re: [MYSTARA] Gazetters Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Il Tue, 07 November 2000, DM ha scritto: > > On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 00:48:52 +0000, Leonardo Damon Giuliani > wrote: > > < in Italy?>> > > Yes... in my house... :p > > *sorry, couldn't resist this one!* > > Anyway, there's no place that has ALL of the Gaz stored for sale in Italy. > U must try your luck in small RPG shoppes or in big stores like I Giochi > dei Grandi or Unicorn. > > And just in case u wondered: No, I AIN'T SELLING my GAZ! :) > > Ciao! > > DM > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn In what cities are this store? AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:59:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, SteelAngel wrote: [CM7]: > > Is that where the constalations of Mystara are described? > Yep. There is a constellation chart, and the elven names of some planets. Could you (or anyone else) give me these names? Are the planets parts of the constellations (I seem to recall a comment on this). To which Gold Box planets do the CM7 ones correspond? Two solar systems are mentioned in the Gold box. Epsilon Eridani and Alpha Centauri. Could any of the names from CM7 be applied to these? Would be handy to have Mystaran names for the systems rather than RW ones. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:48:53 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <20001108192921.13690.qmail@web1205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, John Calvin wrote: > The planet bound Grens eventually become the Emerondians, while those > who were on the space expidition become the Pyrithians. This gives > them plenty of time and cause to diverge in whatever ways an > individual DM sees fit. I think this works, although I havn't read my > VotPA for quite a while, so I could be wrong. Does it state anywhere > that the Pyrithians send colonizers to the surface of Mystara? All > civs on the surface of the planet are literally bombed back to the > stone age. VotPA states clearly that the Emerondians are descendants of Pyrithian space pirates who lived in the Asteroid belt. So, if you want to avoid conflict with canon, the gren must have reached space during the blackmoor era and be abadoned there when the BM disaster struck. Then, some of them could return at a later point to become Emerondians. > There are 2 possibilities that I can think of in order to reconcile > this. 1) Blackmoor causes the GRoF shortly after it reaches space. > Its space colonies still relied heavily upon support from their mother > nation/planet, and when that support is cut off, those colonies either > dwindle and die, or must use all of their resources to simply stay > alive. Over the years they may loose whatever technology they had (as > they don't have the infrastructure to maintain it). Makes sense, however tragic. > 2) [This is my personal favorite, although I realize not all will like > it] The Blackmoorian space colonies survived, but something either > chased them out of the area, or is atively keeping them away from > Mystara. IMC once the immortals saw the devastation caused by the > GRoF, they figured that it would be best to rid their space of all > remnants of Blackmoor that survived. The immortals themselves destroy > or drive off what is left of Blackmoor in the solar system. The nice > thing about this is that I can have Blackmoorians showing up at any > time...and boy will they be pissed. The idea is intriguing. I dont care much for too much Immortal internevtion though, and I dont really see what other forces that could keep the Blackmoorians off. If we go with the Immortal theory though, the immortals could have moved the colonies to another more distant system, which would be nice in fleshing out the rest of space. Khoronus did establish such a colony (of landbased Blackmoorians) on another plane, so he might have moved the space based ones elsewhere aswell. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Froggies >Stephen interacts with the locals, but finds them somewhat wanting. He does find a >species on Mystara that he takes a liking to however...frogs. They are nice and green >after all. Stephen and the others start performing experiments on the frogs to make them >more intelligent (and much bigger and meaner as well). They also start splicing frog DNA >into local population (captives) and brain wash them to serve their needs. Thus the Cult >of the Frog is born. PCs are asked to investigate the swamp where they confront "St. >Stephen" and his cult. IIRC it is recomended that Stephen escape the encounter. > Hmm....I wonder if any of those frog hybrids bred true, and if they are still kicking around somewhere.....? Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:17:07 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Mystaraspace Marco wrote: >Pluto, but threatened by some strange lifeforms from nearby Charon >(something like the Mi-go, Fungi from Yuggoth). >All of this is purely speculative, devised by Haavard and me, of course. :) Maybe you might want to use the Minions of Akh'All here (aka the Zhochal)? I modelled them on the Mi-Go, and perhaps their alien physiology would allow them to live in such a hostile environment. Perhaps they have several hive-like cities out there, devoted to a purpose known to no one but themselves.... Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:11:14 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: <20001108203209.5710.qmail@web1201.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, John Calvin wrote: > I'll give a quick synopsis (done entirely from memory, so forgive me > if I get some things wrong). Here goes: Thanks for a very useful summary! :) > I have the adventure downloaded at home, so if you're interested I > could give you more details. Sounds interesting. Is the module still available for dowloading? H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "Would it not be easier in this case for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?" -Bertolt Brecht ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:19:39 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > The planet bound Grens eventually become the Emerondians, while those > who were on the space expidition become the Pyrithians. This gives > them plenty of time and cause to diverge in whatever ways an > individual DM sees fit. I think this works, although I havn't read my > VotPA for quite a while, so I could be wrong. Does it state anywhere > that the Pyrithians send colonizers to the surface of Mystara? All > civs on the surface of the planet are literally bombed back to the > stone age. VotPA states clearly that the Emerondians are descendants of Pyrithian space pirates who lived in the Asteroid belt. << I had a feeling that was the case. I'll have to look that up when I get home tonight. >> So, if you want to avoid conflict with canon, the gren must have reached space during the blackmoor era and be abadoned there when the BM disaster struck. Then, some of them could return at a later point to become Emerondians. << Yeah, that's easily doable. Thanks. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:26:13 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> The idea is intriguing. I dont care much for too much Immortal internevtion though, and I dont really see what other forces that could keep the Blackmoorians off. << Yeah, I think we all feel that way. The problem is that the immortals seem to do an awful lot of this kind of thing. As a side note (although I've never run one myself) this could be a good set-up for an immortal level game. As you say, who but the immortals could deal with spacefaring Blackmoorians? I suppose that you could set this up as the ultimate fantasy vs sci-fi campaign. Not too sure how that would work... >> If we go with the Immortal theory though, the immortals could have moved the colonies to another more distant system, which would be nice in fleshing out the rest of space. Khoronus did establish such a colony (of landbased Blackmoorians) on another plane, so he might have moved the space based ones elsewhere aswell. << yeah, although I like the idea of the immortals chasing them off better. Then the BKs have to make a living without immortal assistance (ie no clerical magic), and perhaps even defend agains zealous immortal attacks designed to "wipe out that dreaded technology." I figure it makes for a better story that way. Just my personal preference though. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:09:23 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Hmm....I wonder if any of those frog hybrids bred true, and if they are still kicking around somewhere.....? Geoff << Exactly my point... MUHAHAHAHAHAHA..... In fact I've put some in Davania (near the Hinterlands), just because I couldn't resist integrating module I5 (IIRC) in the way I outlined before. Since Mystara was the birthplace of the Cult of the Frog, I'm surprised we don't see a lot more amphibian-like humanoids running around... John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:35:35 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > I'll give a quick synopsis (done entirely from memory, so forgive me > if I get some things wrong). Here goes: Thanks for a very useful summary! :) << No problem. >> > I have the adventure downloaded at home, so if you're interested I > could give you more details. Sounds interesting. Is the module still available for dowloading? << I poked around WotCs download sites yesterday and just could not find the thing. Doesn't mean its not there though... although they could have removed the link for some reason or other. If I find it, I'll let you know. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:23:15 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Freeport Pirate prestige class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've been stumped on my work for the Hin Pirate prestige class, and was considering scrapping the idea until today, when D20 publisher Green Ronin posted their Freeport Pirate p. class at http://www.GreenRonin.com/pirate02.htm I'm thinking that, with a good amount of work, this can be a starting point for hin pirates. Obviously, I need to turn this from Stevenson towards Gilbert and Sullivan, but it's a start. Thoughts? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:02:06 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Mystaran axial tilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > As I recall, a variety of maps in published products show the Arctic/ > Antarctic circles and the Northern/Southern Tropics. What are their > latitudes? If any of those figures are known, then the latitude of the > Northern or Southern Tropic would be the axial tilt, as would be 90 > degrees minus the latitude of the Arctic/Antarctic circle. > Cheers, didn't think of that. Seems that, depending on just how Columbus like you are in taking the measurements that best suit your own personal preference, huge areas of the Sunless Area are nothing of the sort. For depending on season and time of day they may actually see the outer sun. Ad in scattered light from the red sun and the journey though still extremely perilous just got a little easier. Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:20:44 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Gazetters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leonardo Damon Giuliani wrote: > > > U must try your luck in small RPG shoppes or in big stores like I Giochi > > dei Grandi or Unicorn. > > In what cities are this store? The first is (or at least was when I last checked) in Milan, but I suppose you could find it in other towns as well. However, I doubt you will find many items in those big stores, unless they have some leftovers. The only "common" items seem to be Ylaruam Gazeteers... -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 19:38:29 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Gault Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: <20001109163535.8428.qmail@web1204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT John Calvin wrote: > > I poked around WotCs download sites yesterday and just could not find the thing. Doesn't > mean its not there though... although they could have removed the link for some reason or > other. If I find it, I'll let you know. > The module is called "Needle" and it can be found at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_classics.asp Unfortunately, it's all in text and separate picture files, so some assembly required. Dylan G ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:52:47 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Making a logical solution: Blackmoor reaches space and develops fusion away from Mystara's riddiculously high magical field. It works great. However it is based on the gren's engine design and when it nears Mystara the engine backfires and explodes. Shortly after this Blackmoor alters the original gren engine to try and get understand the device more accurately not realizing that it will malfunction because of Mystara's high magical feild (no concept that there might be a place where magic does not exist as it works in space due to the lack of magical drain there and so there is enough energy in nearby space to supply a few magic missiles etc.) Fusion is more stable at the low density of magic in space and does not get overwelmed as it does on Mystara. The Gren engine explodes and makes the surface radioactive. Blackmoor is blasted back to the primitive age. However there greatest ships (mostly with fusion engines) survive this disaster. These ships being only semi self sufficent have to land to refuel and this was gennerally done with smaller craft sent from the surface(without fusion engines), however these large craft are designed to be landable for emergencies. The first one attempting to land blows up (suprise surprise) and so further attempts to land on Mystara are abandened. This leads them to an astroid field which they use for refueling. but also allows them to build enough things to become self-sufficient but the BLACKMOOR's IN SPACE have to canibalize there ships to do so and therefore lose thier appility to travel long distances, living off the astriod belt with the hope of eventially returning to Mystara. Some of the group is decended from the gren's and being particually adept with technology there is a far higher percentace then in actual blackmoor society. The decendants of these are the Pyrithians who eventially return and become the Emerondians and have no magical ability because of there decent from the grens and their interbreeding. they retain a slight greenish tint but fainter then the original grens because of the mix of the races. How this is detailed further is another question but does it fit or have I just been rambleing. Comments welcome. Chris. > > The planet bound Grens eventually become the > Emerondians, while those > > who were on the space expidition become the > Pyrithians. This gives > > them plenty of time and cause to diverge in > whatever ways an > > individual DM sees fit. I think this works, > although I havn't read my > > VotPA for quite a while, so I could be wrong. > Does it state anywhere > > that the Pyrithians send colonizers to the surface > of Mystara? All > > civs on the surface of the planet are literally > bombed back to the > > stone age. > > VotPA states clearly that the Emerondians are > descendants of Pyrithian > space pirates who lived in the Asteroid belt. > > > There are 2 possibilities that I can think of in > order to reconcile > > this. 1) Blackmoor causes the GRoF shortly after > it reaches space. > > Its space colonies still relied heavily upon > support from their mother > > nation/planet, and when that support is cut off, > those colonies either > > dwindle and die, or must use all of their > resources to simply stay > > alive. Over the years they may loose whatever > technology they had (as > > they don't have the infrastructure to maintain > it). > > Makes sense, however tragic. > > > 2) [This is my personal favorite, although I > realize not all will like > > it] The Blackmoorian space colonies survived, but > something either > > chased them out of the area, or is atively keeping > them away from > > Mystara. IMC once the immortals saw the > devastation caused by the > > GRoF, they figured that it would be best to rid > their space of all > > remnants of Blackmoor that survived. The > immortals themselves destroy > > or drive off what is left of Blackmoor in the > solar system. The nice > > thing about this is that I can have Blackmoorians > showing up at any > > time...and boy will they be pissed. > > The idea is intriguing. I dont care much for too > much Immortal > internevtion though, and I dont really see what > other forces that could > keep the Blackmoorians off. > If we go with the Immortal theory though, the > immortals could have moved > the colonies to another more distant system, which > would be nice in > fleshing out the rest of space. Khoronus did > establish such a colony (of > landbased Blackmoorians) on another plane, so he > might have moved the > space based ones else __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:18:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Blackmoor's other Peoples In-Reply-To: <20001110011412.90E518107@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Has anything been done with or discussed or speculated about the other groups of peoples age of Blackmoor in the DA adventures. Such as the Afridhi, the cult of the Egg of Coot, the Skandaharians, the tribes of the Plains of Hak? Just curious and nosy and too lazy to go search archives and websites. ;) Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 20:45:17 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: <200011091509.KAA08978@freenet10.carleton.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:09 AM 11/9/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Hmm....I wonder if any of those frog hybrids bred true, and if they are >still kicking around somewhere.....? IMC, they are. Several groups of them live in the Serpent Peninsula region, and a degenerate offshoot of them (the Toad Men) inhabit the marshy regions to the west of Norwold/Ghyr. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:37:03 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > I poked around WotCs download sites yesterday and just could not find the thing. Doesn't > mean its not there though... although they could have removed the link for some reason or > other. If I find it, I'll let you know. > The module is called "Needle" and it can be found at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_classics.asp Unfortunately, it's all in text and separate picture files, so some assembly required. << Yup. That's the one. I11 - Needle. It's not pretty to look at, but still worth the read IMO. I'm glad it's still up on thier site. John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:04:07 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Those downloads from generic 1st ed AD&D are quite useful. Besides the "frog connection" for Needle, I could see some use for all those good modules which were legally downloadable for a while at the former tsr site and then wizards retired... I'm specifically thinking of the Desert of Desolation Series and the U series. Adapting I3-I5 to Ylaruam is quite easy, and the nomad tribes' conflicts and background goes well into Ylari strife of the 1000s, with the added tomb-hunting with a definite Nithian outlook... And the U series, if you change sahuagin, which are non-Mystaran monsters, for Twaelar merfolk using info from PC3, you can give some "flesh" to the Thyatis-Twaelar conflict with a series of 3 linked modules, which are IMO, amongst the best written stuff for AD&D. L1, the Secret of Bone Hill, is not too much of my liking, but also WG4 could be used in any mountain range for an interesting traditional dungeon quest. Big problem is that there are no guidelines for formatting the isolated illustrations into the text file (beyond indications of page numbers). It would be interesting if original-module-owning people could share that info (like font size, text columns, pic size) so that the formatting could be done. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 00:34:44 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Stefan DID INDEED Turn His Back on Thyatis (was Why Olivia, not Stefan...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_35.ca034c8.273ce2f4_boundary" --part1_35.ca034c8.273ce2f4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...but it's not when many of you seem to think he did ;) I researched the canon reasons for Stefan trading his ancestoral lands in Thyatis for Traladara. Here's what I found: DotE's DM guide says: "Duke Stefan Karameikos III fell in love with the comparitively unspoiled beauties of Traladara" (p. 14). GAZ1 has a better tidbit: "But Karameikos wasn't content with that fate [service in the Thyatian military and government]. He wanted to rule territory shaped by his hands and formed in his image--and that description fitted neither the duchy of his fathers or the empire of his friend the emperor" (also p. 13). My take on Stefan's motives for making the trade: he was a visionary trying to create a nation that would reflect his own values. The second quote makes it clear he no longer felt any close personal ties to Thyatis and the empire's way of life. When Thincol made the trade and gave Stefan his autonomy, he may have thought he had a puppet who would follow the Thyatian party line, but the quote above shows that Thyatis was already of secondary importance to Stefan: he had his own dreams for his own nation. I suggest that it is here that Stefan turns away from Thyatis...NOT when he makes his secret treaty with Alphatia during the Great War. Thus, it shouldn't be a great surprise when he chooses his own nation's welfare over Thyatis' during the war (more on this in a later post, hopefully tomorrow). In a message dated 11/6/00 10:34:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes (in response to my question): > >> So what you're saying is that it's OK for Thincol to try to take > advantage of his "friend" Stefan because Stefan's the one who proposed the > deal? << > > Nope. > What I'm saying is that its absurd to argue that Thincol took advantage of > Stefan. Period. > > if it was ANYONE who deliberately and conciously took advantage of a > friendship in this trade, it was Stefan. Why? Well, look at the context of > the trade in question: at the time, Stefan knew that Thincol was trying to > rebuild the Thyatian military, but was short of funds to do so. He knew > that this was a high priority for the Empire, needed for its security. Did > he, Stefan, not only a loyal friend but a loyal and honorable Thyatian > patriot, step forward and offer to Thincol, his friend, to help this > important rebuilding by providing additional financing and the like? > > No, not Stefan. Instead, he knew he had Thincol over a barrel - Thincol > needed funds now, so as rich as Traladara could be in another generation of > smooth (Thyatian) rule, he knew his friend and liege would be inclined to > accept a bad deal if it provided him with immediate funds. That's what > happened. Look at Machetos on the map - it's not that much of a prize as > Thyatian dominions go, really. Stefan knew what he was doing. Therefore, > the self-serving, retroactive excuses of the Karameikan Propaganda Machine > to explain Stefan's betrayals can be seen for what they are: so much > rubbish. > > I didn't think this notion was "absurd" at the time, and I still don't. To claim that claim that Stefan "knew his friend and liege would be inclined to accept a bad deal if it provided him with immediate funds" doesn't hold water. The GAZ1 text (p. 13) reads: "The Emperor and Karameikos came to terms *and came out of their conference each convinced that he'd emerged with the better deal.*" "Bad deal" and "better deal" are not the same thing. <> I'm gonna suggest that's exactly what Stefan did--by trading away Machetos. I've outlined Stefan's canon motives above, canon states that he & Thincol are friends, and canon states that Stefan's alignment is Lawful (Good). Assigning sinister intent to Stefan in the deal isn't consistent with these details. I think we can safely throw out the loyal Thyatian patriot part, but Stefan's trade DID give Thincol a much-needed infusion of funds--far more than any other vassal offered. As to why I suggest that maybe Thincol--NOT Stefan--may have taken undue advantage during this trade is because the GAZ1 text clearly states that each man thought he got the "better deal." I can come up with a scenario in which Stefan can have a benevolent reason for feeling that he made out in the deal: he knows that if he just goes to Traladara, builds a cabin, hunts, fishes, and lives out his days in a similar manner, then Thincol obviously gets the better of the deal. But he's got a vision: he sees that Traladara has the potential to be something special IF he's willing to put a lot of blood and sweat into forming it after his vision. I can't come up with a similar benevolent scenario for why Thincol would find it necessary to get the best in this deal (if anyone else can, please feel free to enlighten me). Here are the three scenarios I came up with for Thincol getting the better deal: #1. He saw the trade as some sort of friendly rivalry with his old pal Stefan (and I feel this WAS an element of the deal, from both traders). #2. Thincol was the Emperor, Stefan was the vassal. Thincol had the power to choose the terms of the agreement and did--and he chose terms that he thought favored him. (This scenario, if true, doesn't say much for Thincol's character, if he won't give a supposed friend an even deal). #3. Thincol believed that Machetos was ultimately more valuable than Traladara--certainly it was at the time the trade was made. If this were the case, and if Thincol were a true friend of Stefan's, why wouldn't Thincol throw his friend another bone to make the deal more equitable in his own eyes? I think most folks agree that scenario #3 is the reason Thincol made the trade. My question remains: What benevolent reason can be given for Thincol to walk away from the deal feeling that he'd gotten more out of it than his "friend?" Until I hear one, I have to assume Thincol took advantage of Stefan to some extent: the goods he got from the deal had more importance to the emperor than giving his friend an even deal. One final point: According to DotE (DM Book, p. 14), Thincol quickly "stripped Machetos of its wealth and livestocks, sold its slaves in the market, sold it's year's crops for a quick below-cost price, *and effectively ruined the duchy's economy and depopulated it.*" Obviously, there would be no going back on this deal.... Well, there's the Karameikan spin; now it's the Thyatians' turn to spin in their emperor's defense. --part1_35.ca034c8.273ce2f4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ...but it's not when many of you seem to think he did  ;)

I researched the canon reasons for Stefan trading his ancestoral lands in
Thyatis for Traladara.  Here's what I found:

DotE's DM guide says: "Duke Stefan Karameikos III fell in love with the
comparitively unspoiled beauties of Traladara" (p. 14).

GAZ1 has a better tidbit: "But Karameikos wasn't content with that fate
[service in the Thyatian military and government].  He wanted to rule
territory shaped by his hands and formed in his image--and that description
fitted neither the duchy of his fathers or the empire of his friend the
emperor" (also p. 13).

My take on Stefan's motives for making the trade: he was a visionary trying
to create a nation that would reflect his own values.  The second quote makes
it clear he no longer felt any close personal ties to Thyatis and the
empire's way of life.  When Thincol made the trade and gave Stefan his
autonomy, he may have thought he had a puppet who would follow the Thyatian
party line, but the quote above shows that Thyatis was already of secondary
importance to Stefan: he had his own dreams for his own nation.

I suggest that it is here that Stefan turns away from Thyatis...NOT when he
makes his secret treaty with Alphatia during the Great War.  Thus, it
shouldn't be a great surprise when he chooses his own nation's welfare over
Thyatis' during the war (more on this in a later post, hopefully tomorrow).

In a message dated 11/6/00 10:34:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes (in response to my question):


>> So what you're saying is that it's OK for Thincol to try to take
advantage of  his "friend" Stefan because Stefan's the one who proposed the
deal?  <<

Nope.
What I'm saying is that its absurd to argue that Thincol took advantage of
Stefan. Period.



<SNIP>

if it was ANYONE who deliberately and conciously took advantage of a
friendship in this trade, it was Stefan. Why? Well, look at the context of
the trade in question: at the time, Stefan knew that Thincol was trying to
rebuild the Thyatian military, but was short of funds to do so. He knew
that this was a high priority for the Empire, needed for its security. Did
he, Stefan, not only a loyal friend but a loyal and honorable Thyatian
patriot, step forward and offer to Thincol, his friend, to help this
important rebuilding by providing additional financing and the like?

No, not Stefan. Instead, he knew he had Thincol over a barrel - Thincol
needed funds now, so as rich as Traladara could be in another generation of
smooth (Thyatian) rule, he knew his friend and liege would be inclined to
accept a bad deal if it provided him with immediate funds. That's what
happened. Look at Machetos on the map - it's not that much of a prize as
Thyatian dominions go, really. Stefan knew what he was doing. Therefore,
the self-serving, retroactive excuses of the Karameikan Propaganda Machine
to explain Stefan's betrayals can be seen for what they are: so much
rubbish.




I didn't think this notion was "absurd" at the time, and I still don't.  To
claim that claim that Stefan "knew his friend and liege would be inclined to
accept a bad deal if it provided him with immediate funds" doesn't hold water.

The GAZ1 text (p. 13) reads:
"The Emperor and Karameikos came to terms *and came out of their conference
each convinced that he'd emerged with the better deal.*"

"Bad deal" and "better deal" are not the same thing.

<<Did he, Stefan, not only a loyal friend but a loyal and honorable Thyatian
patriot, step forward and offer to Thincol, his friend, to help this
important rebuilding by providing additional financing and the like?>>

I'm gonna suggest that's exactly what Stefan did--by trading away Machetos.  
I've outlined Stefan's canon motives above, canon states that he & Thincol
are friends, and canon states that Stefan's alignment is Lawful (Good).  
Assigning sinister intent to Stefan in the deal isn't consistent with these
details.  I think we can safely throw out the loyal Thyatian patriot part,
but Stefan's trade DID give Thincol a much-needed infusion of funds--far more
than any other vassal offered.

As to why I suggest that maybe Thincol--NOT Stefan--may have taken undue
advantage during this trade is because the GAZ1 text clearly states that each
man thought he got the "better deal."  I can come up with a scenario in which
Stefan can have a benevolent reason for feeling that he made out in the deal:
he knows that if he just goes to Traladara, builds a cabin, hunts, fishes,
and lives out his days in a similar manner, then Thincol obviously gets the
better of the deal.  But he's got a vision: he sees that Traladara has the
potential to be something special IF he's willing to put a lot of blood and
sweat into forming it after his vision.

I can't come up with a similar benevolent scenario for why Thincol would find
it necessary to get the best in this deal (if anyone else can, please feel
free to enlighten me).  Here are the three scenarios I came up with for
Thincol getting the better deal:
#1. He saw the trade as some sort of friendly rivalry with his old pal Stefan
(and I feel this WAS an element of the deal, from both traders).
#2. Thincol was the Emperor, Stefan was the vassal.  Thincol had the power to
choose the terms of the agreement and did--and he chose terms that he thought
favored him.  (This scenario, if true,  doesn't say much for Thincol's
character, if he won't give a supposed friend an even deal).
#3. Thincol believed that Machetos was ultimately more valuable than
Traladara--certainly it was at the time the trade was made.  If this were the
case, and if Thincol were a true friend of Stefan's, why wouldn't Thincol
throw his friend another bone to make the deal more equitable in his own eyes?

I think most folks agree that scenario #3 is the reason Thincol made the
trade.  My question remains: What benevolent reason can be given for Thincol
to walk away from the deal feeling that he'd gotten more out of it than his
"friend?"  Until I hear one, I have to assume Thincol took advantage of
Stefan to some extent: the goods he got from the deal had more importance to
the emperor than giving his friend an even deal.

One final point: According to DotE (DM Book, p. 14), Thincol quickly
"stripped Machetos of its wealth and livestocks, sold its slaves in the
market, sold it's year's crops for a quick below-cost price, *and effectively
ruined the duchy's economy and depopulated it.*"

Obviously, there would be no going back on this deal....

Well, there's the Karameikan spin; now it's the Thyatians' turn to spin in
their emperor's defense.   --part1_35.ca034c8.273ce2f4_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:24:21 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Arcane Emulation: A feat for Glantrian divine spellcasters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To help them with their subversive activities, here is a feat that was developed by and for divine spellcasters during the time when they would have been executed if caught: Arcane Emulation [General]: Prerequisite: Ability to cast divine spells. Benefit: This feat gives a divine spellcaster the chance to pass off his divine spells as arcane spells. Details are as follows: Preparing spells: Multi-classed Treekeeper/Wizards and others who prepare their arcane and divine spells simultaneously will never be caught as divine spellcasters by anyone who happens to witness them preparing their daily spells. Other users of divine magic would be dead meat in such a situation. Casting spells: The spellcaster is able to keep his divine focus out of sight and thus runs no risk of being detected as a divine spellcasters when they cast their spells. However, the extra gestures that they throw into their spells for this purpose create a risk of arcane spell failure if they are wearing any armor or shield, even if they have access to feats such as Still Spell that might otherwise negate that chance for real arcane spells. A spellcaster may opt not to use this feat while casting a spell if he considers avoiding that arcane spell failure check more important than they risk of being caught as a divine spellcaster -- in such a case he would be treated as though he lacked this feat. Explaining spells: For the purpose of passing examinations by bureaucrats and/or teachers at the Great School of Magic, divine spellcasters may have to explain how they researched a given spell. To do so they must pass a Bluff skill check at a DC of 15 + spell level. Resist Detect Thoughts: Because the use of this feat pushes the forbidden aspects of divine magic below surface thoughts, this spell will never catch a divine spellcaster who is consciously using this feat to disguise the preparation, casting, or explanation of his divine spells. Normal: Without this feat, a divine spellcaster deals with the conditions that this feat protects against as follows: Preparing spells: Multi-classed Treekeeper/Wizards and others who prepare their arcane and divine spells simultaneously are caught as divine spellcasters on a successful Knowledge (Religion) or Spellcraft skill check at DC 20. Casting spells: Casting a divine spell runs no risk of discovery unless it requires a divine focus, in which case a successful Knowledge (Religion) or Spellcraft skill check at a DC of 10 will reveal that the spell is divine and not arcane. Explaining spells: A divine spellcaster who tries to explain the mechanics behind his supposed research of a divine spell would automatically fail to convince any examiner that the spell in question is divine in origin. Resist Detect Thoughts: Any spellcaster who uses this spell to read the surface thoughts of a divine spellcaster while the latter is preparing, casting, or attempting to explain his spells will catch the divine nature of the spells in his surface thoughts automatically. Comments? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 02:43:41 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan DID INDEED Turn His Back on Thyatis (was Why Olivia, not... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-10 12:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Demmero@AOL.COM writes: > My question remains: What benevolent reason can be given for Thincol > to walk away from the deal feeling that he'd gotten more out of it than his > "friend?" Until I hear one, I have to assume Thincol took advantage of > Stefan to some extent: the goods he got from the deal had more importance to > the emperor than giving his friend an even deal. One question would be who proposed the deal to whom. From the canon sources, it appears that Stefan made the offer. So let us suppose that Thincol was worrying about some problems with keeping the rebellious Traladarans in line when Stefan made his offer. While Thincol considered Stefan a friend, the current situation seemed (from Thincol's point of view) to be a very good deal for Thincol and a very bad deal for Stefan. But Thincol would have been pragmatic enough not to put too much effort into trying to talk Stefan out of his "crazy" offer. After minimal negotiation to clarify the exact terms of the deal, Thincol's final attitude would have been, "Well if that is what you want, then the Traladarans are your problem now!" The mental disconnect between the two of them was over the term "autonomy". Thincol understood the term to mean formal indepen- dence (and thus no requirement to provide Imperial aid), mitigated by Stefan's assumed friendship and thus willingness to assist Thyatis in a crisis. Stefan, on the other hand, was out for true independence -- but his true intentions would not become known until Thincol asked for help and Stefan refused it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:07:50 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Stefan DID INDEED Turn His Back on Thyatis (was Why Olivia, not... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_4d.34e6003.273d3f16_boundary" --part1_4d.34e6003.273d3f16_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 11/10/00 2:57:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM= =20 writes: > One question would be who proposed the deal to whom. From the canon > sources, it appears that Stefan made the offer. So let us suppose that > Thincol was worrying about some problems with keeping the rebellious > Traladarans in line when Stefan made his offer. =20 Stefan definitely approached the Emperor; Thincol, being emperor, ultimately= =20 decides the terms of the deal. If he doesn't like the terms, he makes no=20 deal. As for rebellious Traladarans, I think it's been argued that they wer= e=20 fairly quiet until Stefan showed up trying to proclaim himself leader. <> Strangely enough, I'll come to Thincol's aid here ;) He and Stefan are=20 described as being friends, so let's assume they are. I don't think Thincol= =20 would see the trade as a "very bad deal for Stefan"--he knows there's=20 potential lurking in Traladara. He just doesn't think that there's enough=20 potential to make Stefan come out on top in the deal. I agree, however, that Thincol was probably being pragmatic about the=20 situation though; if he felt he came out a little better on the deal, he=20 could live with that, because the money he got out the deal was to go to=20 building back up the Thyatian military, not something frivolous. And it's a= =20 deal that isn't going to come back along in his lifetime, so Thincol would b= e=20 crazy to scuttle the deal just because he felt that Stefan wasn't quite=20 getting equal compensation. <> Agreed, and I also think they have different outlooks: Stefan looks more=20 towards the future when he acts while Thincol deals more with the=20 "here-and-now." And I think you nailed Thincol's attitude about Stefan and=20 his nation and Stefan's own feelings about independence. My later post will= =20 question just how much right Thincol had to expect help from Karameikos=20 during the Great War. --part1_4d.34e6003.273d3f16_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a=20= message dated 11/10/00 2:57:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM
= writes:


One question would be who p= roposed the deal to whom.  From the canon
sources, it appears that Stefan made the offer.  So let us suppose=20= that
Thincol was worrying about some problems with keeping the rebellious
Traladarans in line when Stefan made his offer.  
Stefan definitely approached the Emperor; Thincol, being emperor, ultima= tely
decides the terms of the deal.  If he doesn't like the terms,=20= he makes no
deal.  As for rebellious Traladarans, I think it's been= argued that they were
fairly quiet until Stefan showed up trying to pro= claim himself leader.

<<While Thincol considered Stefan a friend, the current situation=20= seemed
(from Thincol's point of view) to be a very good deal for Thincol= and a very
bad deal for Stefan.=A0 But Thincol would have been pragmati= c enough not to put
too much effort into trying to talk Stefan out of hi= s "crazy" offer.=A0>>
Strangely enough, I'll come to Thincol's aid here ;)  He and Stefan= are
described as being friends, so let's assume they are.  I don't= think Thincol
would see the trade as a "very bad deal for Stefan"--he k= nows there's
potential lurking in Traladara.  He just doesn't think= that there's enough
potential to make Stefan come out on top in the dea= l.

I agree, however, that Thincol was probably being pragmatic about the situation though; if he felt he came out a little better on the deal, he <= BR>could live with that, because the money he got out the deal was to go to=20=
building back up the Thyatian military, not something frivolous.  A= nd it's a
deal that isn't going to come back along in his lifetime, so T= hincol would be
crazy to scuttle the deal just because he felt that Stef= an wasn't quite
getting equal compensation.

<<The mental disconnect between the two of them was over the term
"autonomy".=A0 Thincol understood the term to mean formal indepen-
dence (and thus no requirement to provide Imperial aid), mitigated
by Stefan's assumed friendship and thus willingness to assist
Thyatis in a crisis.=A0 Stefan, on the other hand, was out for true
independence -- but his true intentions would not become known
until Thincol asked for help and Stefan refused it.>>

Agreed, and I also think they have different outlooks: Stefan looks more=
towards the future when he acts while Thincol deals more with the
"= here-and-now."  And I think you nailed Thincol's attitude about Stefan=20= and
his nation and Stefan's own feelings about independence.  My la= ter post will
question just how much right Thincol had to expect help fr= om Karameikos
during the Great War.

--part1_4d.34e6003.273d3f16_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:04:17 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Shaham Ilan Subject: The Glantrians are here again! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hear ye hear ye, people of Mystara: The Glantrian Personnal Division has once more updated it's scrolls and exposed even more about the wonderous land of magic. Come to the realm maintained by the great archduke Kit Navarro and witness the changes and additions. Visit yet again the Great School of Magic and meet Rhogene Zelipieti, Mistress of Abjuration, whose magic reflects the conservative that she is. See Derghov Loeten, Master of Evocation the Fleam wannabe, learn about Wilhelm Bhes, Master of Divination who is the unwilling servant of outside forces and view the arrogant Bernabie Thrum, Master of Planar Magic lectures his pupils on matters he knows nothing about. Did you like Tereis Haaskins Haralds sister? Wait till you re-enter castle Sablestone and meet crazy uncle Saghir, the dark secret of the doggody family. If a more refines form of madness is what you are looking for you can try to understand the two women in Harald's life- his wife Asadel and his new lover Rowan Zarovan. Than you can travel to the creepy tower of Crown guard and learn about the history and life of Quentine McGregor and Sean McAlister. You will learn the true meaning of a "hounted house". For those of you that interest themselves in the arcan art of magic, this part of the scrolls has also been updated, with the soothing spells of Rowan Zarovan, and the not-so-nice spella by the kealic nobles. The lists of spells also expanded into the previously uncharted area of Hidromancy. Finally a (very) short story named Asylum has made its way to the writings. It speaks of things to come, as horribly as they can. All these and more can be at your fingertips if you just point your wands to- http://www.geocities.com/principalities_of_glantri/ See you there Morphail (ohadshm@inter.net.il) I can be cruel I don't know why.../T.Amos ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:35:47 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Herve Musseau Subject: Mystara FAQ v7.11 Comments: To: FMML MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mystara FAQ version 7.11 by Herv� Musseau The latest version of this document can be found at http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/Mystara/mystfaq.txt Table of contents: Introduction to Mystara. (no updates) Geography and History of Mystara. (no updates) Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. (7.9 fixed a typo, 7.10 changed Dragon article URL) Miscellaneous. (7.7 added Mystara chat link, 7.8 added French Mystara Mailing List link, 7.10 changed all TSR links, 7.10 changed MML subscription procedure and archive link) Spoiler warning: This FAQ contains information that is for the DM's eyes only. If you are a player in a Mystara campaign, by reading further you may spoil the fun of having to figure things out (especially if you read most of section 3 and part of section 4). If you intend to read the FAQ nonetheless, I advise you do not read the answers before asking yourself whether you should know the answer in-game or not, and skip it if need be. Introduction to Mystara. Q: What is Mystara? A: Mystara is an imaginary world created by TSR as a campaign world for roleplaying games using the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Q: What is a roleplaying game? A: Roleplaying games are games in which people play the role of imaginary fantastic characters like warriors or wizards and try to complete an adventure under the guidance of a game master. Q: I never heard of Mystara, but I know a setting called the Known World which looks pretty the same. What's the difference? A: Mystara got a name as a world only recently; before that, it was often referred to as the Known World, although Mystara is more than just the Known World. Geography and History of Mystara. Q: So, what's Mystara? The Known World and what else? A: Mystara is basically composed of 2 main parts, the Outer World and the Hollow World, plus 2 moons, and some other exotic settings. Q: A Hollow World? A: Yes. Mystara, unlike our earth, is hollow, an empty sphere. It has an internal sun that lights the interior world, making it inhabitable. It holds old civilizations that are now extinct on the Outer World, placed there by the Immortals with strong magic preventing them from evolving much or dying away. The only entrances to the Hollow World are through underground passages between the two worlds, and through the holes that stand in place of the north and south poles. Q: And the Outer World? A: The Outer World is mostly like our Earth. It comprises: * the Known World (now called Old World), where the most civilized countries are located, * Alphatia (only before AC 1009), * the Savage Coast and Hule, * the southern continent, called Davania, * the eastern continent, called Skothar. Q: Why is Alphatia part of Mystara only up to AC 1009? A: Because Alphatia, which is a large continent east of the Known World, sank into the ocean in AC 1009, at the end of the major event called Wrath of the Immortals. It is now a floating continent located in the Hollow World. Q: What exactly is Wrath of the Immortals? A: Wrath of the Immortals (or WotI) is an epic campaign that TSR published to update the Known World. It deals with the Great War that involves the major countries of Mystara and that was caused by the Immortals to obtain control of the Nucleus of the Spheres, a powerful artifact located under Glantri. At the end of the war, Alphatia sinks, Glantri and Thyatis have suffered dramatically from the conflict and three new powers enter the political scene of Mystara: the Heldannic Territories, the Hagiarchy of Hule and the "revamped" Kingdom of Karameikos. Q: On the continental map published in the Master DM's book, there are some empires I've never read anything about in other products and on the list, like the Empire of Dorphin IV or the Empire of the Great Khan. Do they exist? Where can I find information about these? A: The map in the Master set is "wrong, wrong, wrong!" In the series of articles written by Bruce Heard in Dragon Magazine, the first in the series (Dragon #153) explains this all. The map was released by a very imaginative Thyatian, and wrongly accepted for the truth. There is no Empire of Dorphin IV, no Empire of the Great Khan, etc. Also, as you probably guessed, the size of the Thyatian Empire was largely exaggerated on this map... Q: I've already heard of the Known World, and of the Hollow World too, but never as Mystara. What does all this mean? A: This is because Mystara is a very old world, one of the oldest created by TSR, and, as TSR grew, so did Mystara. All of these product lines are relevant to Mystara: * Mystara, of course, * the Known World and most stuff that were made for D&D (as opposed to AD&D) like these old good modules B and X, or the Gazetteers, * the Hollow World, * Red Steel/the Savage Coast, * Blackmoor. Also, some products bearing the label First Quest are related to Mystara. Q: Blackmoor? I know a Blackmoor, but it's part of Greyhawk, isn't it? A: Blackmoor was, like Greyhawk, the campaign world of one of TSR's founder, Dave Arneson. It was later placed in both Greyhawk and the Known World (as a past kingdom in the later), effectively making three Blackmoors exist. It seems there is no further relation between the two Blackmoors of Mystara and Greyhawk, however, although some people made the assumption; on the other hand, Judge's Guild's Blackmoor likely has much in common with Mystara's, as the DA series for the Known World was also written by Dave Arneson (so that JG First Fantasy Campaign is considered Mystara-relevant). Q: Where is it located? A: Blackmoor was a techno-magical kingdom that blew itself up a few millennia ago. The event shifted the planet's axis and Blackmoor is now the north pole. Sources are contradictory as to where Blackmoor stands; some place it on Brun, some on Skothar. Arguments in favor of Brun are the position of the Inn Between the Worlds and the Nucleus of the Sphere, and the fact that the Known World stands there; this is the solution proposed in some Gazetteers. Arguments in favor of Skothar are its sort of canonical status, and the feeling that all civilizations should not systematically come from the Known World; this is the solution proposed in the Hollow World box. Note that, if you consider the Hollow World solution to be the truth in your campaign, the map in the box does have a typo : the names of Blackmoor and Thonia have been reversed (Blackmoor was north of the Empire of Thonia according to all other sources). Bruce Heard's opinion on this matter : "Blackmoor -- the travelling legend. If there were archaeologist on Mystara, they would have a devil of time figuring where the darn place was really located. Officially, it's supposed to be up there by the Thonian Marches. Unfortunately, conflicting info has crept into several products, getting in the way of the Thonian theory. The best thing is to assume evidence of Blackmoor's presence elsewhere is the result of later colonizations and outposts. Other communities were also magically displaced (such as a certain ancient tavern in the Broken Lands of the Known World). Definitely a messy development of the World of Mystara! :)" So officially the answer is Skothar. Q: Ok, and now what's Red Steel? A: Red Steel is a setting that is part of Mystara (west of the Known World), although it was released as a stand-alone setting. Personalities and Immortals of Mystara. Q: I have a player of the Church of Karameikos, and I want to give him an Immortal, I suppose that it's a church with many Immortals (like the Greek / Latin church) but in Gaz 1 I didn't find any list of Immortals... A: These are the immortals of the Church of Karameikos, as told by Bruce Heard in an old Dragon Magazine: Asterius (Eternal of Thought), Leader Kagyar (Eternal of Matter) Ilsundal (Hierarch of Thought) Valerias (Hierarch of Matter) Vanya (Empyreal of Time). Also, although Chardastes is a native Traladaran Immortal, he is venerated through the auspices of the Church of Karameikos, not the Church of Traladara. This is extrapolated from info in B1-9 In Search of Adventure. The Immortals of the Church of Traladara are: Halav Petra Zirchev. Q: You spoke of Immortals, what are they? Are they Gods? Powers? A: Mystara has a different pantheon when compared to other D&D settings. Most notably, it has no gods, but beings called Immortals. Immortals are mortals who, through their deeds, have reached a higher status granting them more power than mere mortals. Basically, however, Immortals are not very different from Gods of other settings. Q: Is Jaggar von Drachenfelds the Star Dragon? A: No. According to Bruce Heard's article in Dragon #170 http://dnd.starflung.com/immguard.html he became the Star Dragon for a brief period but relinquished the title for absolution. Q: Is Rad gone after Wrath? A: No, he's been absorbed into the Radiance, and some of his life force was used to lessen the drain of the artifact on Mystara's magic (thus there is only a Day of Dread each year, and not a week as in Wrath). Rad is not dead though, but he has been put into a slumbering state to reflect on his deeds (and hopefully change). This is covered in detail in the module Mark of Amber. Q: So is Rad back after Mark of Amber? A: The outcome of the module may vary from campaign to campaign, as the actions of the PCs decide his fate. The module's three outcomes are: 1. He returns as a mortal with no chance of being sponsored back to Immortality and no access to the Radiance (failure); 2. He returns as a mortal but can become an Immortal again sometime (normal success and most likely outcome); 3. He returns as a full Immortal (complete success). Later products avoid the issue, and the general consensus is that he should return but be left in the background, keeping low profile for some time, either rebuilding his following (if an Immortal) or attempting to reach Immortality again (if mortal). Few favor him becoming a mere mortal as most love him as an NPC. Q: Does the Radiance draw from Energy or Entropy after Wrath? A: In Wrath, the Radiance is altered to draw from Entropy instead of Energy. Yet in Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, the rules for the Radiance are exactly the same as in Gaz3, stating that it drains from Energy. This is a mistake in G:KoM; the authors overlooked that event in Wrath and forgot to update the info from Gaz3. Thus the new rules for the Radiance are undefined, as are the effects of Entropy-draining. Various suggestion have been made on the MML, though. Q: Where is Teldon? Is he dead? A: This is a short excerpt from Dragon Magazine #207 about Teldon's fate: "One of the attractions of the Magicians' Guild, its location in Karameikos' largest city, was its downfall. Such a collection of powerful (and often egotistical or secretive) mages in one location created great potential for conflict. The final straw was the creation of a mechanical beholder by one of the more advanced apprentices, powered by an Immortal's artifact. The resulting creation was turned loose in downtown Specularum, leveling a good section of the South End. The creation was defeated by the head of the Magicians' Guild, Teldon, but at great cost. Both mage and monster disappeared in a pure white ball of fire, and while they are assumed to have both been destroyed, they may instead have been teleported to some far-off location. The fact remained that the Magicians' Guild proved itself too dangerous to remain in Specularum, and lost one of its most valuable supporters." Q: And Bargle, where is he? A: After the fall of the Black Eagle Barony, Bargle is an itinerant villain that pops up here and there. He can easily be used as a recurring villain who the PCs bump into way too often (to their taste). He has been spotted in various place, including Esterhold and Serraine (always helping the evil guys, of course), but can have business just anywhere you wish. Well, good ole Bargle. Q: Is Kol a Shadow Elf or a Kobold? A: Earlier sources always presented Kol as a kobold who, using the rules from Gaz10, could cast spells. In Glantri: Kingdom of Magic, he is said to be one of the deformed shadowelf babies raised by the humanoids, thus explaining both his high intelligence and spellcasting abilities under the AD&D rules. It is both an interesting plot, and a disappointment to many, as it removes again the humanoids any glint of chance that they can achieve something by themselves. Many people ignore that sentence in G:KoM (or ignore the box altogether, preferring good old Gaz3), and some love the potential of that plot. As always, use whatever version suits your campaign and your taste best. Miscellaneous. Q: You mentioned something about D&D not being AD&D. What does that mean? A: Mystara was the world designed to be used with the rules of D&D (often called OD&D to better distinct it from AD&D and from the generic term D&D which could mean both; OD&D stands for Old D&D or Original D&D - note that some few people call it BD&D for Basic D&D to distinguish it from even older rules). It appeared in the old boxed rules: the Expert box, the Companion box and the Master box. Most of the earlier modules designed for D&D were set in this world. Recently, however, Mystara has been converted to AD&D (along with Red Steel), but many people who play in Mystara do it with the old rules (or their reediting, Rules Cyclopedia). Q: When I read stuff about Mystara I keep seeing acronyms I cannot understand like WotI or PWA. What do they mean? A: There is a list of Mystara relevant acronyms at http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/Mystara/acronyms.html Q: I heard that the Mystara line was canceled. Is this true? A: It is unfortunately true. And Red Steel is canceled too. Some novels pertaining to Mystara may be released as part of the First Quest line, and modules may be part of the Odyssey line. AFAIK, there is no such products in preparation however, though Wizards of the Coast (which bought TSR) has expressed its willingness to publish material for dead worlds, but never namely mentioned Mystara. D&D3 may do Mystara good, or not. Keep faith. Joshuan's Almanac was the last product of Mystara (to be precise the novel "The Black Vessel" has been released after, and to be even more precise it deals with the Savage Coast) and the Savages Baronies the last of Red Steel (except for online exclusives). Q: But I saw in TSR's 97 preview that there would be Red Steel modules released as online exclusive. What does this mean? A: TSR has released these modules for free on its site at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads.asp. Several other Mystaran and non-Mystaran files are available there as well. Q: So, if TSR has dropped the line, how can I get new material for Mystara? A: There are many people on the web who love Mystara and have taken upon themselves to keep Mystara alive (and well alive). There is a mailing list dedicated to Mystara (MML) where people discuss together about it, exchanging ideas, points of view, and more. To subscribe, send e-mail to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM. In the body, have the single line: subscribe Mystara-L . It has 278 people, as of June 99. As a comparison, there are 395 people on the Realms list, TSR's flagship world (April 98). There is a French Mystara Mailing List (FMML) too, to join go to http://www.mystara.com.bi/ put your email in the designated area and you're on. There is also the TSR Mystara Message Board (MMB) at cipher.wizards.com (usenet) where discussion revolves mostly around alternate Mystaras. There are also many pages around the net dedicated to Mystara, sometimes with lots of interesting materials. Some of these pages are organized into a Webring, check http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html for info about the Mystara webring. Now more than ever you should express your views on how Mystara should be brought back at http://CWSpot.com/Mystara/SaveMystara or join the SaveMystara Writer's Group whose goal is to get as many adventures and articles to the periodicals as we can. Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara mailing list? A: The digests are collected at http://209.67.104.4/archives/mystara-l.html, the older ones at ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/ADND/Worlds/Mystara/MailingListArchive/ and the oldest ones (prior to 1998) can be found at ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/mailing-lists/mystara-digest/ However for your convenience the most interesting articles the list has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://dnd.starflung.com Q: Where can I find the old messages of the Mystara message board? A: There is no archiving of the board. However for your convenience the most interesting articles the board has come up with are collected and sorted on Shawn's page at http://dnd.starflung.com Q: Where can I find a complete list of the material published for Mystara? A: The most complete lists to my knowledge is at http://dnd.starflung.com/prodlist.html It includes rulebooks and modules published by TSR, Mystara-relevant Judge Guild supplements, a list of various magazine #s that contain adventures, rules or world description pertaining to Mystara, novels, TSR net resources, and Clark Ashton Smith stories related to Averoigne. All of these are ranked according to compatibility with Mystara (explicit, implicit, compatible, etc.) and the type of product (campaign source, rules supplement, adventure, etc.). The list of the Dragon magazines that mention Mystara, including the Voyage of the Princess Ark series, can be found at http://dnd.starflung.com/dragon.html . Q: And where can I buy those products? A: Since the Mystara line is out of print, it is difficult to find them. If you're lucky you can find them in any shop that sells RPG stuff, or buy second-hand books. Some places where you can find Mystara stuff on the web: http://www.dragontrove.com/listing.html http://www.titan-games.com/ http://www.hitpointe.com http://www.eskimo.com/~darkh/ http://www.ida.net/users/groverm/sleeping.dragon/sdh.html http://www.djhobby.com/catalog/index.html http://www.sagesguild.com/ http://www.crazyegors.com/ http://www.sentrybox.com/ http://members.aol.com/aleeder454/ http://www.cyberdungeon.com/ http://www.nobleknight.com/ http://www.nyx.net/~epass/dd.html http://www.dragoneggs.com/ Jason Zavoda (mail him for a catalogue) nemesis@magpage.com Mike Badolato (mail him for a catalogue) BADMIKE3@aol.com the newsgroup rec.games.frp.marketplace various auction sites like http://www.ebay.com/ and I got a special page for all Mystara books at Amazon.com: http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/amazon.html Q: Where can I find the FAQ for the Mystara mailing list? A: Check at http://www.lesbois.com/members/malacoda/mmlfaq.htm or http://www2.crosswinds.net/~malacoda/mmlfaq.html AFAIK there is no plain text version of this FAQ. Q: Is there a Mystara chat? A: yes: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/travelersofmystara . ===== ___________________________________________________________ Herve Musseau http://www.geocities.com/hmusseau/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:17:29 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples >Has anything been done with or discussed or speculated about the other >groups of peoples age of Blackmoor in the DA adventures. Such as the >Afridhi, the cult of the Egg of Coot, the Skandaharians, the tribes of the >Plains of Hak? > >Eric Anondson Well, in some works, it was speculated that the Antalian peoples are descended from the Skandaharians (makes sense, IMO, since the cultures are consistent). In my history of Littonia, I worked out a connection between the people of that land and the Valemen of the DA series (who were among the first to fall to the Afridhi). IIRC, the Peshwar (horse warriors) were the inhabitants of the plains of Hak - I think the Ethengarians and the Jennites would be logical descendants of these people, myself, and IIRC the Gaz for Ethengar says that those people had some connection with that part of the world. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 05:52:40 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <6c.48dd630.27364cd5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:40 AM 11/5/00 EST, you wrote: > >The name was not original with me -- I derived it from Gamma World >materials in conjunction with descriptions of Benekander as well as >the Emerondians. I would assume that the Emerondians, the >"Pyritheans", and the crew of the Beagle were all members of this >same human-like race noted for its resistance to magic as well as >complete lack of any sort of magical (arcane/psionic) talent. Actually, the crew of the Beagle is not naturally resistant to magic- some of them have undergone "battle conditioning" that allows them to resist mental spell effects (charm person, sleep, ESP, hold person, and confusion), nor are the Emerondans (not in any source that I've seen, anyway). Also, on the Arcane/Psionic issue, there's a telling quote in DA3, from the history of the Galactic Federation and the Beagle's arrival on Mystara: "Many of the species captured... displayed remarkable characteristics never encountered anywhere else in the galaxy. At first, it was thought that these were manifestations of unique parapsychological talents, but further investigation showed that they were related to a strange energy field permeating the planet... Some of the aspects of this energy field were so bizarre that Rocklin and others took to referring to them as 'magic,' (which of course, is what they are)." So the Beagle's crew would at least appear to have some familiarity with psionics/parapsychological abilities, though not magic. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:04:57 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Brant Casavant Subject: Lord Kelvin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hola: I hate to ask such a dumb question, but I'm planning out my session for Tuesday and for the life of me I can't remember Lord Kelvin's first name. I don't have any of my Karameikos stuff with me here in Boston, and it's driving me crazy! Does anyone know? =) Thanks! - Brant ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:40:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > I hate to ask such a dumb question, but I'm planning out my session for > Tuesday and for the life of me I can't remember Lord Kelvin's first name. I > don't have any of my Karameikos stuff with me here in Boston, and it's > driving me crazy! Does anyone know? =3D) Desmond Kelvin II :) Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:44:19 CET Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Desmond _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:13:13 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin? In-Reply-To: ; from Demyelination@AOL.COM on Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 10:04:57AM -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Fri, Nov 10, 2000 at 10:04:57AM -0500, Brant Casavant wrote: > Hola: > > I hate to ask such a dumb question, but I'm planning out my session for > Tuesday and for the life of me I can't remember Lord Kelvin's first name. I > don't have any of my Karameikos stuff with me here in Boston, and it's > driving me crazy! Does anyone know? =) Desmond I think... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:18:15 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Where are the Pyrithians? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> VotPA states clearly that the Emerondians are descendants of Pyrithian space pirates who lived in the Asteroid belt. << Ok, I'm just about going bonkers. I know I'll find the episode sooner or later, but for some reason my dragon search engine is not finding the Pyrithians. Could somebody out there give me a clue as to which episode of VotPA (or issue of Dragon) these guys are in? Thanks in advance, John ===== Rule #46. If an advisor says to me "My liege, he is but one man. What can one man possibly do?", I will reply "This." and kill the advisor. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:24:21 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan DID INDEED Turn His Back on Thyatis. >>...but it's not when many of you seem to think he did ;) << You mean, as an apologist for Stefan, that for propagandistic purposes you're going to try to re-write when he did. Ok, I'll play along for awhile, to knock down this latest agitprop. >> My take on Stefan's motives for making the trade: he was a visionary trying to create a nation that would reflect his own values. << He was an egoist who decided to manipulate an entire people, shaping it in his hands, after, in an act of extreme narcisism and egocentrism, renaming an entire nation after himself. Hosadus is a visionary, too, trying to create a nation that would reflect his own values (which also include betrayal). >> The second quote makes it clear he no longer felt any close personal ties to Thyatis and the empire's way of life. When Thincol made the trade and gave Stefan his autonomy, he may have thought he had a puppet who would follow the Thyatian party line, but the quote above shows that Thyatis was already of secondary importance to Stefan: he had his own dreams for his own nation. << Ok, so what you're saying is that Stefan decieved and manipulated his old friend Thincol right from the begining, along with his deception of the rest of the world. He led Thincol to believe that he'd be a loyal friend and ally, when he had no intention of doing so, right from the begining: he was just using Thyatis for his own benifit, never intending to recpirocate. In your portrayal, right from the start he was waiting for the first opportunity to betray his homeland and his friend, and when that opportunity arived, he took it. "Canon" does indeed support such an interpretation: "Duke (now King) Stefan has long desired his own throne, completely free of any allegiance to his old friend, Emperor Thincol. With Thyatis's troops committed to the war with Alphatia, Stefan has chosen this moment to declare his independence, when Thincol can hardly spare the men to re-take Karameikos" So, in your version of Stefan, stripped of the pro-Stefan propaganda aspects, he is basically an unprincipled opportunist, abusing his friendship by decieving Thincol into thinking he'll be a good ally, so he can use Thyatis to deter people from attacking Karameikos, and then betraying him & the Empire the first time his friend needs him. >> I suggest that it is here that Stefan turns away from Thyatis...NOT when he makes his secret treaty with Alphatia during the Great War. Thus, it shouldn't be a great surprise when he chooses his own nation's welfare over Thyatis' during the war (more on this in a later post, hopefully tomorrow). << It'll be fun to see your attempt to excuse Stefan's betrayal of his homeland & friend and selling out of his long time allies. >> I didn't think this notion was "absurd" at the time, and I still don't. To claim that claim that Stefan "knew his friend and liege would be inclined to accept a bad deal if it provided him with immediate funds" doesn't hold water. << Except that it happens to be more true to the facts than your version. > > The GAZ1 text (p. 13) reads: > "The Emperor and Karameikos came to terms *and came out of their conference each convinced that he'd emerged with the better deal.*" > > "Bad deal" and "better deal" are not the same thing. > And Stefan got the better deal. Lets look at this trade, cutting out all your apologisms for Stefan. How is the deal described? "Karameikos surrendered his ancestral lands to the Emperor. The few properties he had remaining he sold for the ships and goods he'd need to rule the region properly." Ahh, so we have three things here, and we'll see who was generous: 1) Though Karameikos "surrendered his ancestral lands", Thincol generously let him keep enough properties to sell to buy ships and goods enough to run the region properly. Note that thus your attempt to portray it as "Stefen gives up everything and then goes alone to hunt and fish in a cabin in Karameikos" is exposed as what it is, a distortion. Thincol gets Stefan's ancestral lands in the "trade", but Stefan keeps what can be easily disposed of, enough to buy ships (plural) and goods. Who's taking advantage of whom when one party makes a "trade" but then keeps whatever can be easily sold off for himself? 2) Here we see who stripped Machetos of wealth; Stefan sells off properties and uses the proceeds, not to build up his ancestral lands, but to strip them, taking the proceeds somewhere else. >> I'm gonna suggest that's exactly what Stefan did--by trading away Machetos << Stripping it of wealth, and using that wealth elsewhere, with no intention of being a loyal ally to his homeland. >> I've outlined Stefan's canon motives above, canon states that he & Thincol are friends, and canon states that Stefan's alignment is Lawful (Good). << I judge alignment by behavior, not by apologisms for misbehavior. Canon also says: "Karameikos Sells Out" "makes a secret diplomatic mission to Sundsvall." (If Stefan is this above-board, honorable, honest guy with nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. . .) "The newly-established Kingdom of Karameikos agrees not to help Thyatis in this war - in effect, selling out their longtime allies." "rationalizes his betrayal of his homeland." (WotI, pp.79-80). This from the guy who wrote both Gaz1 AND DotE; I tend to think his assessment of Stefan's behavior is more accurate than your efforts to exculpate him. >> Assigning sinister intent to Stefan in the deal isn't consistent with these details. << No, it's assigning noble intent to Stefan that isn't consistent with the details of his actions. I note that you have largely ignored my other examples, the ones pertaining to his actions with respect to the Traladaran families themselves and his behavior as a liege; I can take that as a tacit admission that you'd rather not discuss those further, since it's much harder to distort those things and exonerate his behavior in those episodes. >> I think we can safely throw out the loyal Thyatian patriot part, << Yes; you've admited that was just a charade used to dupe his old friend. >> As to why I suggest that maybe Thincol--NOT Stefan--may have taken undue advantage during this trade is because << You're an apologist for Stefan, doing everything you can to portray his every action as more noble than it really was, and everyone else as venal by comparison. Stefan is in need of a propaganda minister, though, I admit. >> the GAZ1 text clearly states that each man thought he got the "better deal." << Do you have any knowlege of economics and trade theory? When you go into a gamestore and buy a much-anticipated gaming accessory, both parties get the deal they want and see it as a benificial exchange: you get the accessory you wanted, they get the money. You're trying to portray this as some zero-sum situation where only one party can get the better deal, and that party had to be Thincol since you want to portray the situation as Thincol taking advantage of Stefan, in order to excuse Stefan's later behavior. >> I can come up with a scenario in which Stefan can have a benevolent reason << Yes, you're good at coming up with scenarios to excuse Stefan's behavior. That's what an apologist does. >> I can't come up with a similar benevolent scenario for why Thincol would find it necessary to get the best in this deal (if anyone else can, please feel free to enlighten me). << And that's because you're determined to see anyone but Stefan as unworthy by comparison, and anyone who doesn't bend over backwards to benifit Stefan in exchange for nothing is somehow venal and sinister. But there's a good reason for Thincol to make a deal that he would see as benificial to the Empire in the short term. See, Thincol, unlike Stefan, sees his duty to the Empire. He doesn't use the funds to build a monument to himself (or rename Thyatis after himself), or build a palace; he uses the proceeds to insure the security of the Empire, finishing rebuilding the Empire's strength - for the benifit of the entire Empire, rather than for some egoistic enterprise (as Stefan does). >> #3. Thincol believed that Machetos was ultimately more valuable than Traladara--certainly it was at the time the trade was made. << This one's not the case; the "canon" you've been pointing to shows that Thincol knew that Traladara was potentially rich ("Traladara had substantial potential to become a wealthy region, but it would take more time and effort than the Emperor was willing to devote at the time" - Gaz1, p.13). But he didn't have the time to develop it, needing to restore the Empire's security (". . .used these lands and funds to finish the rebuilding of his military" - DotE, PGtT, p.5). >> If this were the case, and if Thincol were a true friend of Stefan's, why wouldn't Thincol throw his friend another bone to make the deal more equitable in his own eyes? << Thincol let him keep a not-insubstantial portion of his properties, which he sold to provide for his expedition to Traladara (now "Karameikos"). Of course you ignore that in your effort to portray Thincol as the selfish one. >> I think most folks agree that scenario #3 is the reason Thincol made the trade. << Most propagandists and apologists for Stefan might, but canon doesn't bear out that impression - see above quotes; Thincol knew that Traladara could be a wealty region, but he was in a pressing situation and didn't have time to develop it. So he accepted the trade off. >> Until I hear one, I have to assume Thincol took advantage of Stefan to some extent: the goods he got from the deal had more importance to the emperor than giving his friend an even deal. << It's amazing that admirers of Traladara would think that Stefan somehow got a raw deal in the trade. Remember, Machetos itself is a frontier portion of the Empire, sharing a border with the dreaded Dymrak forest; many of the problems he faced (or, rather, let others face - I don't see any indication Stefan did anything to clear out monsters himself, he just settled elven refugees in the way, making them do it) were ones he'd have faced in Machetos, too. The Emperor, it is true, didn't give Stefan an even deal: he gave him an a deal that was advantageous to Stefan, especially in the long term. He didn't even demand all of Machetos's disposable wealth in the trade: he let Stefan keep a significant chunk of it, so he could finance ships &tc for his governance of Traladara. Your attempts to portray things otherwise being obvious distortions. Plus, Thincol provided even more; he didn't just say to Stefan "well, you're on your own now" - Stefan obviously wanted people to have the impression that Traladara was still part of the Empire, to deter attempts to unseat him or invade the place, so Thincol gave that to him too. Stefan returned this by doing what? Selling out his longtime allies in the war, when he felt he no longer needed the Empire and was done using his friend. >> Well, there's the Karameikan spin; now it's the Thyatians' turn to spin in their emperor's defense. << See, that's a distortion, too; unlike you, I've never said that Thincol is good. IMO, he's clearly more honorable than Stefan, and I can certainly see why Thincol might make some of the decisions he did (stripping Machetos is bad for Machetos, not a good thing - but at least Thincol used the proceeds to benifit the entire Empire, of which Machetos was only a part, while Stefan simply turned his back on his ancestral responsibilities). I don't need to try and insist that Thincol is a pillar of virtue, because I recognize the aspects of his character which aren't so good for what they are (he uses Gabiela, his ambition for the throne isn't entirely admirable - though he does rule in the Empire's interest when he attains it - he invades the Hinterlands, which I don't see as an "evil" act per se but isn't a "good" act either by any stretch of the imagination. He keeps a treaty with a dead power after the war even though he doesn't have to, but he exploits a loophole in it to invad! ! e the fragments of that dead power. He conducts those attacks even though it's clearly arguable that he'd have done better to concentrate on internal post-war rebuilding rather than expansion.) I never try to argue that Thincol is a pillar of goodness; but he's better than his "image" is, while Stefan's "image" masks a less noble reality. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:39:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples >> Well, in some works, it was speculated that the Antalian peoples are descended from the Skandaharians (makes sense, IMO, since the cultures are consistent). << I don't think it makes sense, though, for the same reason; making that connection too directly implies a degree of social stagnation that makes the SoP look like the font of progressive cultural evolution (and, considering how places in the HW are seen as developing in some recent materiels, that isn't such a stretch, I guess, but that's another topic). Drawing a linear connection between the Skandaharians = Antalians implies no real change for over 50 centuries. That seems a bit. . .off. I would say that the Antalians are decendents of various refugees; Thonians and Blackmoorians themselves not having been racially distinguishable from Skandaharians. Those and other Neathar-decended peoples then made up the Antalians, which then developed later into a society that is in many ways similar to the Skandaharian one. But I think drawing a direct connection and equating them as old Skandaharians = modern Antalians is actually uninteresting, asside from creating an impression of total stagnation. Same with some of the others you mentioned (Afridi equalling Jennites, for one example). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:54:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples >> Has anything been done with or discussed or speculated about the other groups of peoples age of Blackmoor in the DA adventures. << Well, I wrote up something about Thonia in the "modern era", in the form of a Geographic Entry, though there are some aspects I keep planning on altering slightly but haven't had the chance. Most of those are minor things, though. Anyhow, the version I wrote up can be found at: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/thonia.html If you're interested. "Missouri Democrats have successfully reversed their old trick of using dead people to elect living politicians." - Jonah Goldberg ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:58:15 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Anondson wrote: > Has anything been done with or discussed or speculated about the other > groups of peoples age of Blackmoor in the DA adventures. Such as the > Afridhi, the cult of the Egg of Coot, the Skandaharians, the tribes of the > Plains of Hak? I have used the Afridhi as one of the races who originated the Nenstunians, after being re-assured that there was only a brief mention of them, with no possible connections to anything. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:14:17 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/9/00 7:59 AM, hoc@NVG.NTNU.NO wrote: > Could you (or anyone else) give me these names? > Are the planets parts of the constellations (I seem to recall a comment on > this). To which Gold Box planets do the CM7 ones correspond? > > Two solar systems are mentioned in the Gold box. Epsilon Eridani and Alpha > Centauri. Could any of the names from CM7 be applied to these? Would be > handy to have Mystaran names for the systems rather than RW ones. As I based my version of the Mystaran Solar System on the planets from CM7, you might want to check out that table at my web site. If I recall, I noted which one were actually canonical. Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:14:17 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: She's baaack! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001107134428.007bbe70@lby3.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > Welcome back, Jenn. Thanks to everyone for their warm welcomes! :-) Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:14:18 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? In-Reply-To: <20001108125825.C6222@morwong.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > On Thu, Nov 02, 2000 at 07:27:50PM +0100, Caroletti wrote: >> Ok, guys. Now explain me why we are 261 and I have collected just 77 >> votes >> (plus 3 people who told me they are not going to vote). Okay, I'll toss in my two pennies! I guess if I had to choose a favorite nation right now, I'd pick Glantri. Belcadiz, if you want to get specific. But catch me on a different day, and I might choose Traladara (NOT Karameikos;), Darokin, or Hule. Jenn ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:14:18 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Web list (was She's baaack!) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/7/00 11:24 PM, Kaviyd@AOL.COM wrote: > Does that site also tell us how to subscribe to your "web list"? I am > assuming that it is some sort of mailing list to keep up with your > creative efforts -- if so, I am very interested in it. Yes, it's a form for an email update list. I haven't changed it over to the new address yet, so it will bounce. I'll add you manually, if you like. Just specify which address you'd like to include. Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:42:37 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Lord Kelvin? In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:04 11/10/00 EST, Brant Casavant wrote: >Hola: > >I hate to ask such a dumb question, but I'm planning out my session for >Tuesday and for the life of me I can't remember Lord Kelvin's first name. I >don't have any of my Karameikos stuff with me here in Boston, and it's >driving me crazy! Does anyone know? =) Desmond. Although I always think of him as "Butthead." BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:20:19 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII All IMO - > Has anything been done with or discussed or speculated about the other > groups of peoples age of Blackmoor in the DA adventures. Such as the > Afridhi I think that the Afridhi must have failed in their attempt to conquer Blackmoor, as the latter was still going strong 1,000 years after the Afridhi rise to power. Given the all-or-nothing tactics of Zulzul, my bet is that they were utterly destroyed in a large war ending maybe 200 years after DA4. The peak for their culture would have been shortly after the DA series. > the cult of the Egg of Coot When the Egg was destroyed (presumably it was) its mindwashed followers merely joined other cultures. > the Skandaharians The culture advanced somewhat, but remained fairly stable, and they became the Antalians. > the tribes of the Plains of Hak? According to my Jennite HWR, they primarily died out during the cataclysm, but not before their culture blended with others, helping form the Jennite tribes. What other groups were there? The libertine humans in the Duchy of the Peaks comes to mind, but they were unlikely to maintain themselves once challenged by the Afridhi or some other serious contender. - Mischa To try to satiate greed by smothering it with wealth, fame, power, and pleasure is, as the Hindus say, like trying to quench a fire by dousing it with butterfat - Huston Smith ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:31:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Where are the Pyrithians? In-Reply-To: <20001110161815.23457.qmail@web1204.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:18 AM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote: > >Ok, I'm just about going bonkers. I know I'll find the episode sooner or later, but for some reason my dragon search engine is not finding the Pyrithians. Could somebody out there give me a clue as to which episode of VotPA (or issue of Dragon) these guys are in?< The Pyrithians themselves never appear. They are mentioned in Dragon #166, which introduces the Emerondans. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:57:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:20 PM 11/10/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I think that the Afridhi must have failed in their attempt to conquer >Blackmoor, as the latter was still going strong 1,000 years after the >Afridhi rise to power. Given the all-or-nothing tactics of Zulzul, my bet >is that they were utterly destroyed in a large war ending maybe 200 years >after DA4. The peak for their culture would have been shortly after the DA >series. I'll toss in my 2 cents, for what it's worth. At one point (and maybe I'll still get around to it someday- I've already got it started) I had planned to write a DA5 module for online release. It was to take place a few months after the events of DA4, and would have gone something like this: King Uther Andahar and his loyal henchmen (notably the Fetch) had been sponsoring an underground movement within the Duchy of the Peaks and providing support for a revolution against the duchess of that harsh realm. Unfortunately, the resistance was betrayed from within, and its leaders sentenced to death. The PCs are called in to free the ringleaders, and, if possible start the revolt. So the adventure would first deal with them getting through Afridhi territory to the mountainous duchy, and then going undercover, freeing the leaders, etc. I was toying with including a War Machine scenario for the revolt, as well. If successful, the PCs manage to overthrow the duchess and install a leader who, while not exactly buddy-buddy with Blackmoor, at least is a semi-ally. This, in turn, helps to halt the immediate threat of the Afridhi, as now not only are the Afridhi unable to get the military support they desired from the Duchy of the Peaks, but if they attempt to take the Duchy or Blackmoor by force, they've got to watch their back against the other side. This, then, would give Blackmoor some breathing room to contend with their other threats- the Empire of Thonia (and the Iron Duke), the Egg of Coot, and the Skandaharian Raiders. I had hoped to do DA6- dealing with an assassination attempt on the life of the Skandaharian leader- and DA7 (a joint mission with Captain Riesling of the City of the Gods and Blackmoorian agents) as well. But the basic idea was that the Afridhi would gradually be beaten by a long series of delaying tactics on the part of Blackmoor. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:00:39 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Yes, 3E dragons are massively more powerful than they've ever been before. But dragon slaying in fantasy and myth dates back at least to the Beowulf poet(s). What sort of prestige class could be built to reasonably have a chance at not dying horribly when hunting dragons? I was thinking they might have, as default, favored enemies: dragon as per the ranger, and stacking with ranger favored enemy bonuses, gradual immunities to dragon fear, improved saves vs. breath weapons and, eventually, assassin-style instant kill chances. Yeah, that last power seems REALLY powerful, but I think it's appropriate, and don't dragons have realy good Fortitude saves anyway? For requirements, I'm thinking they have to speak Draconic, have a medium high attack bonus and lots of points in Knowledge (Dragon Lore). Any thoughts? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:38:58 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001110110039.007c90a0@lby3.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/10/00 1:00 PM, lby3@LBY3.COM wrote: > Yes, 3E dragons are massively more powerful than they've ever been before. > But dragon slaying in fantasy and myth dates back at least to the Beowulf > poet(s). > > What sort of prestige class could be built to reasonably have a chance at > not dying horribly > when?D$ ?? ??? ??=? w ? ?U0*?? ?? ? ???????1???t ?L$$? ??D ? ?? ??D$$ > ?}??????*u > ?? ?N??L$$? G?D$ ?? ???.u}?D$ ?J? ??=? w ? ?U0*?? ?? ? ???????1?? > ?t:?|$ } ?D$ ?L$ ? ??D ? ?? ??D$ ? G?5 ?????????????????*u > ?? ?N??L$ > ? G?D$ ? ???ht ??LtT?Z????lt ??qt6?L????? ?>???????????lu ? G?( > ???? ? ?????????? ? ?????????? ? G?D$ ?? ????????????? ? ????S > ?Q ?$???Y ???????????Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y > ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y > ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y 0?Y > ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y > ??Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y P?Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y > ?? t ?? u ?? ?V?? ????????????? ?V??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$,Qj > ?; ?????L$ ?L$ @?? t ?? u > ?? ?V?? ??? ?V??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$,Q??ot ? ??uu ? > ? > ?????? P?? ??????? ?F??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$ What happned here? Or was it just me?? Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:51:44 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:38 11/10/2000 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: >What happned here? Or was it just me?? Holy moley. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:12:28 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:38 PM 11/10/00 -0600, you wrote: > >What happned here? Or was it just me?? Wasn't me. What's your computer been smoking, Jenn? :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:07:59 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <20001110005247.20152.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Most of your ideas make sense Chris. However, the original gren engine is the engine of the Beagle, which later becomes the Nucleus of the Spheres and is transported below Glantri. Based on this, the original engine should be left out of your story. On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Chris Furneaux wrote: > Making a logical solution: Blackmoor reaches space and > develops fusion away from Mystara's riddiculously high > magical field. It works great. However it is based on > the gren's engine design and when it nears Mystara the > engine backfires and explodes. Shortly after this > Blackmoor alters the original gren engine to try and > get understand the device more accurately not > realizing that it will malfunction because of > Mystara's high magical feild (no concept that there > might be a place where magic does not exist as it > works in space due to the lack of magical drain there > and so there is enough energy in nearby space to > supply a few magic missiles etc.) Fusion is more > stable at the low density of magic in space and does > not get overwelmed as it does on Mystara. The Gren > engine explodes and makes the surface radioactive. > Blackmoor is blasted back to the primitive age. > However there greatest ships (mostly with fusion > engines) survive this disaster. These ships being only > semi self sufficent have to land to refuel and this > was gennerally done with smaller craft sent from the > surface(without fusion engines), however these large > craft are designed to be landable for emergencies. The > first one attempting to land blows up (suprise > surprise) and so further attempts to land on Mystara > are abandened. This leads them to an astroid field > which they use for refueling. but also allows them to > build enough things to become self-sufficient but the > BLACKMOOR's IN SPACE have to canibalize there ships to > do so and therefore lose thier appility to travel long > distances, living off the astriod belt with the hope > of eventially returning to Mystara. Some of the group > is decended from the gren's and being particually > adept with technology there is a far higher percentace > then in actual blackmoor society. The decendants of > these are the Pyrithians who eventially return and > become the Emerondians and have no magical ability > because of there decent from the grens and their > interbreeding. they retain a slight greenish tint but > fainter then the original grens because of the mix of > the races. > > How this is detailed further is another question but > does it fit or have I just been rambleing. Comments > welcome. > > Chris. > > > > The planet bound Grens eventually become the > > Emerondians, while those > > > who were on the space expidition become the > > Pyrithians. This gives > > > them plenty of time and cause to diverge in > > whatever ways an > > > individual DM sees fit. I think this works, > > although I havn't read my > > > VotPA for quite a while, so I could be wrong. > > Does it state anywhere > > > that the Pyrithians send colonizers to the surface > > of Mystara? All > > > civs on the surface of the planet are literally > > bombed back to the > > > stone age. > > > > VotPA states clearly that the Emerondians are > > descendants of Pyrithian > > space pirates who lived in the Asteroid belt. > > > > > There are 2 possibilities that I can think of in > > order to reconcile > > > this. 1) Blackmoor causes the GRoF shortly after > > it reaches space. > > > Its space colonies still relied heavily upon > > support from their mother > > > nation/planet, and when that support is cut off, > > those colonies either > > > dwindle and die, or must use all of their > > resources to simply stay > > > alive. Over the years they may loose whatever > > technology they had (as > > > they don't have the infrastructure to maintain > > it). > > > > Makes sense, however tragic. > > > > > 2) [This is my personal favorite, although I > > realize not all will like > > > it] The Blackmoorian space colonies survived, but > > something either > > > chased them out of the area, or is atively keeping > > them away from > > > Mystara. IMC once the immortals saw the > > devastation caused by the > > > GRoF, they figured that it would be best to rid > > their space of all > > > remnants of Blackmoor that survived. The > > immortals themselves destroy > > > or drive off what is left of Blackmoor in the > > solar system. The nice > > > thing about this is that I can have Blackmoorians > > showing up at any > > > time...and boy will they be pissed. > > > > The idea is intriguing. I dont care much for too > > much Immortal > > internevtion though, and I dont really see what > > other forces that could > > keep the Blackmoorians off. > > If we go with the Immortal theory though, the > > immortals could have moved > > the colonies to another more distant system, which > > would be nice in > > fleshing out the rest of space. Khoronus did > > establish such a colony (of > > landbased Blackmoorians) on another plane, so he > > might have moved the > > space based ones else > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:11:30 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001110055240.00815100@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Also, on the Arcane/Psionic issue, there's a telling quote in DA3, from the > history of the Galactic Federation and the Beagle's arrival on Mystara: > "Many of the species captured... displayed remarkable characteristics never > encountered anywhere else in the galaxy. At first, it was thought that > these were manifestations of unique parapsychological talents, but further > investigation showed that they were related to a strange energy field > permeating the planet... Some of the aspects of this energy field were so > bizarre that Rocklin and others took to referring to them as 'magic,' > (which of course, is what they are)." > > So the Beagle's crew would at least appear to have some familiarity with > psionics/parapsychological abilities, though not magic. This means most of the Gren material should be revised. It seems to me that Grens (I think we should keep the name) are basically just like humans in terms of game mechanics. The same would be the case for the distantly related Pyrithians and Emerondians. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:17:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > As I based my version of the Mystaran Solar System on the planets from CM7, > you might want to check out that table at my web site. If I recall, I noted > which one were actually canonical. Thanks Jenn! I liked your alternative solar system. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:09:45 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit H�vard wrote: > On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: > > > Also, on the Arcane/Psionic issue, there's a telling quote in DA3, from the > > history of the Galactic Federation and the Beagle's arrival on Mystara: > > "Many of the species captured... displayed remarkable characteristics never > > encountered anywhere else in the galaxy. At first, it was thought that > > these were manifestations of unique parapsychological talents, but further > > investigation showed that they were related to a strange energy field > > permeating the planet... Some of the aspects of this energy field were so > > bizarre that Rocklin and others took to referring to them as 'magic,' > > (which of course, is what they are)." > > > > So the Beagle's crew would at least appear to have some familiarity with > > psionics/parapsychological abilities, though not magic. > > This means most of the Gren material should be revised. It seems to me > that Grens (I think we should keep the name) are basically just like > humans in terms of game mechanics. The same would be the case for the > distantly related Pyrithians and Emerondians. > > H�vard Wait a minute, that passage doesn't imply that psionics existed in the GF They may have been familiar with parapsychological talents the way we are in the real world, through fiction and unexplained phenomena. That is what I thought the author meant to imply. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:36:21 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leonardo Damon Giuliani Subject: Re: She's baaack! Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > > > It's good to be home... Hello Valerya, I'm in the list by a short time... I've seen your site and I think it's very interesting and well made. AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:39:38 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leonardo Damon Giuliani Subject: Re: Bargle Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 I'm afraid to communicate you this new but.. hem... In my campaign Bargle is already dead... :-P AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:38:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew Theisen wrote: > got it started) I had planned to write a DA5 module for online release. It > was to take place a few months after the events of DA4, and would have gone > something like this: > > King Uther Andahar and his loyal henchmen (notably the Fetch) had been > sponsoring an underground movement within the Duchy of the Peaks and > providing support for a revolution against the duchess of that harsh realm. > Unfortunately, the resistance was betrayed from within, and its leaders > sentenced to death. The PCs are called in to free the ringleaders, and, if > possible start the revolt. > > So the adventure would first deal with them getting through Afridhi > territory to the mountainous duchy, and then going undercover, freeing the > leaders, etc. I was toying with including a War Machine scenario for the > revolt, as well. > > If successful, the PCs manage to overthrow the duchess and install a leader > who, while not exactly buddy-buddy with Blackmoor, at least is a semi-ally. > This, in turn, helps to halt the immediate threat of the Afridhi, as now > not only are the Afridhi unable to get the military support they desired > from the Duchy of the Peaks, but if they attempt to take the Duchy or > Blackmoor by force, they've got to watch their back against the other side. > This, then, would give Blackmoor some breathing room to contend with their > other threats- the Empire of Thonia (and the Iron Duke), the Egg of Coot, > and the Skandaharian Raiders. > > I had hoped to do DA6- dealing with an assassination attempt on the life of > the Skandaharian leader- and DA7 (a joint mission with Captain Riesling of > the City of the Gods and Blackmoorian agents) as well. > Very ambitious projects, and some good ideas. Would it be impossible to get Dave Arneson to commission new work on his Blackmoor campaign? I think he owns the rights to it, nothing is stopping him from producing adventures in Blackmoor with the d20 license. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:52:52 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Bargle In-Reply-To: <20001111003938.25751.cpmta@c000.muc.cp.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 00:39 11/11/00 +0000, Leonardo Damon Giuliani wrote: >I'm afraid to communicate you this new but.. hem... >In my campaign Bargle is already dead... What year? BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 02:54:38 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-09 10:30:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > Hmm....I wonder if any of those frog hybrids bred true, and if they are > still kicking around somewhere.....? That depends -- how far were they able to get away from the Beagle before the GroF? Only if enough of them to form a viable breeding community managed to escape from the immediate vicinity of the Temple of the Frog would there be any chance that they survived. I would speculate that the chance of that having happened is fairly high, and so there should be bullywugs scattered throughout northern Skothar by 1000 AC. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 02:54:37 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaran axial tilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-09 2:18:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > Cheers, didn't think of that. Seems that, depending on just how Columbus > like you are in taking the measurements that best suit your own personal > preference, huge areas of the Sunless Area are nothing of the sort. For > depending on season and time of day they may actually see the outer sun. Ad > in scattered light from the red sun and the journey though still extremely > perilous just got a little easier. See the "Hollow World Diagram" -- the rings around the outer world parts of the openings are the "Sunless Area" or the "Darklands", in contradiction to the polar maps that suggest that the entire opening areas are in perpetual darkness. In fact the limits of the zone of perpetual darkness are set by visibility of the inner sun from the Hollow World side and by the limit of axial tilt from the outer world side. Of course, well beyond the outer world limit on the zone of perpetual darkness we have a region that is usually in darkness except around noon around the appropriate solstice, with daylight gradually becoming more common as you move outwards. By the way -- from looking at the maps, the locations of the tropics and Arctic/Antarctic circles seem to be close to those of the real world, which would give Mysatara an axial tilt of 23 degrees 27 minutes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:13:38 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think a kit for "dragonslayers" was presented in the Complete Paladin's Handbook, for 2nd ed AD&D. There are also a couple of "undead slayers" (in the Paladin's, Elves' and Necromancer's Handbooks") which could be used as inspiration for a Dragon Slayer Prestige Class. Requirements for me would be a VERY high attack bonus, as I cannot see a low-mid level character becoming the legendary heroic dragon slayer; Draconic language as you said, Knowledge (of dragons and possibly Ancient History) and also some craft skills, as heroes always know tricks about better piercing weapons and that stuff. And, most important, I would put all that knowledge into a strong background requirement: the character must approach and study/train with some secret association dedicated to the study of dragons. Some possibilities: 1. The Craft of Dracology in Glantri (that would be open only to characters with arcane spell casting abilities) 2. A monastic order, possibly one founded by a gold dragon, polymorphed and willing to transmit knowledge useful agains chromatic dragons. 3. A military order of warriors, paladins or clerics 4. A circle of druids, aided by rangers with dragons as favored enemies, which have, for a long period of history, opposed a legendary dragon and offpring which menaced and despoiled nature. That association would take lots of times to find, and lots of effort to get into and lotsa money too... Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:55:52 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001110110039.007c90a0@lby3.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:00 AM 11/10/00 -0800, you wrote: > > I was thinking they might have, as default, favored enemies: dragon as per >the ranger, and stacking with ranger favored enemy bonuses, gradual >immunities to dragon fear, improved saves vs. breath weapons and, >eventually, assassin-style instant kill chances. Yeah, that last power >seems REALLY powerful, but I think it's appropriate, and don't dragons have >realy good Fortitude saves anyway? An alternative (or perhaps in addition to) might be to give them a Sneak Attack type of ability that they can use against Dragons. Other possibilities: Able to avoid the Dragon's blindsight ability (ie, thus allowing invisible attacks, darkness, surprise, etc.); some means of getting around the Dragon's Damage Reduction ability; increased saves vs. Dragon spells. > For requirements, I'm thinking they have to speak Draconic, have a medium >high attack bonus and lots of points in Knowledge (Dragon Lore). They'd probably have to have slain at least one dragon prior to joining the Prestige Class, as well. Maybe Skill Focus: Dragon Lore? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:15:09 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Relic Hunter Prestige Class Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm soliciting ideas for a Relic Hunter Prestige Class- sort of an Indiana Jones type of character. It's sort of similar to the Loremaster, I guess (and I keep looking at that and wondering), but I'd like it to be more of a roguish type class. So far, I'm thinking along these lines: Relic Hunter Hit Die: d6 Requirements: Probably some Knowledge Skills (history plus one other) at something like 5 ranks or so; possibly Skill Focus in one of them. Not sure of what other requirements (aside from roleplaying ones- must find and recover an artifact). Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (any) (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (any) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (any) (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language, Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Relic Hunter is proficient with all simple weapons and light armor (but not shields). Class Abilities: I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking along these lines- Attack Bonus: As Rogue Saves: Good Will and Reflex, Poor Fortitude. Detect Magic: At will, the Relic Hunter can detect magic as a spell like ability. Bonuses to Use Magic Device and Decipher Script checks. Analyze Dweomer: At 10th level, the Relic Hunter can use his knowledge to gain the effects of an Analyze Dweomer spell. Unlike the spell, the Relic Hunter *can* use this ability to gain information about an artifact (major or minor). This is an extraordinary ability usable once per day. Lore: Gains the ability to know information about people and places just like the Bardic Knowledge ability. Some sort of bonus/save versus the effects of Cursed items. Other than that, I'm sort of stuck. Any ideas here? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:45:12 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Marizhavashti Kali Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andr�s Piquer Otero wrote: > > Requirements for me would be a VERY high attack bonus, as I cannot see a > low-mid level character becoming the legendary heroic dragon slayer; Just as a note: Dragons in 3e range in CR from 1 to 26, as Justin Bacon pointed out on rgf.dnd. So, putting the requirements at mid-level (as most prestige classes are) would not be out of line. -- Deird'Re M. Brooks | xenya@teleport.com | cam#9309026 Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG "Atlantic City is Oz envisioned by used car salesmen and pimps." http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | --Rick Glumsky, Celtic Filth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:47:47 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: <78.c7b3797.273e553e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:54 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > >That depends -- how far were they able to get away from the Beagle >before the GroF? Only if enough of them to form a viable breeding >community managed to escape from the immediate vicinity of the >Temple of the Frog would there be any chance that they survived. >I would speculate that the chance of that having happened is fairly >high, and so there should be bullywugs scattered throughout >northern Skothar by 1000 AC. I'd agree that their chances of survival were pretty high. These weren't just humanoid frogs, after all, but combined the best traits of man and frog. "They are a warm-blooded, intelligent, upright, bipedal species, with fully articulated hands and opposable thumbs. But they also have gills, webbed hands and feet, thick, mottled green skins, bulging eyes, exceptionally muscular legs, and long, sticky forked tongues. Like frogs, they lay eggs. Though they dwell on land, the frog folk are equally at home in the water, and can stay submerged indefinitely." The sinking of Blackmoor would really pose no problems for them. :) Anyway, I'd say that Bullywugs are probably degenerate frog-folk (or possibly a result of further mutations among the 'killer frogs' of DA2). Frog-folk could conceivably have spread anywhere in the world. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:51:02 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Freeport Pirate prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: lby3@LBY3.COM (Beau) > I've been stumped on my work for the Hin Pirate prestige class, and was > considering scrapping the idea until today, when D20 publisher Green Ronin > posted their Freeport Pirate p. class at > http://www.GreenRonin.com/pirate02.htm > I'm thinking that, with a good amount of work, this can be a starting > point for hin pirates. Obviously, I need to turn this from Stevenson > towards Gilbert and Sullivan, but it's a start. > Thoughts? I really like the looks of this one -- the basic class is easily tweaked to cover many different Mystaran pirates (notably including the "Merry Pirates" of the Hollow World), and some of the class special abilities set precedents for ideas that can be used with other prestige classes. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:09:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beau wrote: > Yes, 3E dragons are massively more powerful than they've ever been before. > But dragon slaying in fantasy and myth dates back at least to the Beowulf > poet(s). > > What sort of prestige class could be built to reasonably have a chance at > not dying horribly when hunting dragons? Dragonslayers do not exist. Dragons are too mighty for you miserable mortal creatures. Dragons are at the top of the evolution. Dragons will never be killed by poor miserable foolish humans. Mr Wyrmteeth ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:25:19 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Freeport Pirate prestige class In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:51 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > >I really like the looks of this one -- the basic class is easily tweaked >to cover many different Mystaran pirates (notably including the "Merry >Pirates" of the Hollow World), and some of the class special abilities >set precedents for ideas that can be used with other prestige classes. Absolutely. I really think this is one of the most colorful prestige classes I've seen so far. Looks like I'm going to have to revise the stats on Uthgaard McRhomaag that I did up some time ago... Arrh! Those Shadow Coastal scalawags be some nasty buggers! (Also, I haven't looked at the Freeport accessory yet, but I'm thinking it might be tweaked somewhat and dropped right into the Shadow Coast somewhere- or Ne'er-Do-Well. Anyone else looked at it yet?) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 04:54:34 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-10 9:19:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: > Well, in some works, it was speculated that the Antalian peoples are > descended from the Skandaharians (makes sense, IMO, since the cultures are > consistent). In my history of Littonia, I worked out a connection between > the people of that land and the Valemen of the DA series (who were among > the first to fall to the Afridhi). IIRC, the Peshwar (horse warriors) > were the inhabitants of the plains of Hak - I think the Ethengarians and > the Jennites would be logical descendants of these people, myself, and > IIRC the Gaz for Ethengar says that those people had some connection with > that part of the world. In addition to the above, it would seem logical for the Tanagoro to be descended from the Afridhi or very close relatives of those people -- aren't they described as having very similar physical appearances? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 04:54:37 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-10 2:58:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, valerya1@YAHOO.COM writes: > > ??Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y P?Y ??Y ??Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y ??Y ??Y 5?Y > > ?? t ?? u ?? ?V?? ????????????? ?V??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$,Qj > > ?; ?????L$ ?L$ @?? t ?? u > > ?? ?V?? ??? ?V??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$,Q??ot ? ??uu ? > > ? > > ?????? P?? ??????? ?F??L$ Q?L$$Q?L$ > > > What happned here? Or was it just me?? Maybe Beau was attacked by a dragon as he sent that e-mail? ;) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 04:54:35 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Mystaraspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-10 10:09:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > So the Beagle's crew would at least appear to have some familiarity with > psionics/parapsychological abilities, though not magic. Dwarves are also familiar with arcane magic, even if they can't use it. My whole idea of these "Grens" being incapable of developing psionic abilities or arcane spells is strongly tied to the idea of equating them with the "Pure Strain Humans" of the final edition of Gamma World. Keep that link, and they are necessarily incapable of using such powers because they constitute "mental mutations" -- but if you drop that link, then anything is possible. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 05:03:05 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 4:04:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > Anyway, I'd say that Bullywugs are probably degenerate frog-folk (or > possibly a result of further mutations among the 'killer frogs' of DA2). > Frog-folk could conceivably have spread anywhere in the world. FYI -- Bullywugs and frog-folk were originally the same sort of creature, regardless of how they may have diverged later. The original Blackmoor supplement published shortly after the Greyhawk supplement and the original (and I do mean "original") D&D rules has a "Temple of the Frog" scenario that should look quite familiar to anyone who has the DA series module of the same name. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 06:02:39 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Beau > > Yes, 3E dragons are massively more powerful than they've ever been > before. But dragon slaying in fantasy and myth dates back at least to the Beowulf > poet(s). Yes, but look what happened to him -- after killing Grendel and Grendel's mother in his youth with extraordinary efforts, he was only able to kill the dragon in his old age at the cost of his own life. > What sort of prestige class could be built to reasonably have a > chance at not dying horribly when hunting dragons? > > I was thinking they might have, as default, favored enemies: dragon > as per the ranger, and stacking with ranger favored enemy bonuses, gradual > immunities to dragon fear, improved saves vs. breath weapons and, > eventually, assassin-style instant kill chances. Yeah, that last power > seems REALLY powerful, but I think it's appropriate, and don't dragons have > realy good Fortitude saves anyway? I think I would prefer the approach of granting him a sneak attack damage bonus similar to that of a Rogue (up to +1d6 per dragon slayer level) but limited to attacks against dragons. I would then give him an ability to overcome damage reduction of dragons similar to the "Breach Immunity" ability of high level Fighters in the "DM Options: High Level Campaigns" book. Top it off with improvements to critical threat range and/or critical damage multiplier vs. draconic opponents and you will have given your dragon slayer a set of abilities that cumulatively could equate to that instant kill ability in some cases. I would suggest that these three abilities for inflicting increased damage have precedent in fiction and legend that a straight "instant kill" check does not. > For requirements, I'm thinking they have to speak Draconic, have a > medium high attack bonus and lots of points in Knowledge (Dragon Lore). > > Any thoughts? The requirements seem reasonable. Obviously level and combat ability would determine how tough a dragon a given dragon slayer could take out. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:24:02 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Frog-Folk, 3E style Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What the heck- might as well. Here's a quick stat block for what the Froggies might look like: Frog-Folk Medium-Size Humanoid (Aquatic) Hit Dice: 2d8 (9 hp) Initiative: +1 (Dex) Speed: 30 ft., swim 40 ft. AC: 13 (+2 natural, +1 Dex) Attacks: Kick +2 melee; Weapon +1 melee; or Bite +1 melee. Damage: Kick 1d6; Bite 1d4; Weapon (by weapon type) Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. Special Qualities: Amphibious Saves: Fort +0, Ref +4, Will +4 Abilities: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 10. Skills: Jump +6, Hide +5, Spot +3 Feats: Weapon Focus (kick) Climate/Terrain: Any temperate land, or aquatic. Organization: Nest (3-12) or School (6-36) Challenge Rating: 1/2 Treasure: Standard Alignment: Any, usually lawful Advancement: By character class Frogfolk are the descendants of humans that were genetically bonded with frogs by an ancient cult known as the Order of the Frog. They are roughly human sized (5-6 feet tall), though they are somewhat stockier and have a pronounced tendency to slouch. Their thick skin is generally a mottled green in color, though many shades and hues have been observed. Like common frogs, frogfolk have gills, webbed hands and feet, and long, sticky tongues. However, frogfolk are warm-blooded creatures, not cold-blooded as common frogs. Frogfolk are omnivores, but their sharp teeth are particularly good at rending flesh, and meat is their food of choice. They lay eggs like frogs, producing clutches of 2-4 young. Combat: Frogfolk tend to fight as individuals, favoring wide spaces within which to deliver their devastating kicks. They are particularly fond of setting ambushes, jumping down onto their opponents from high trees or cliffs, dealing additional damage as per a falling object (DMG p.89- usually +1d6 damage for a 200 lb. Frogfolk). After ambushing their opponents, Frogfolk will move to melee, lashing out with their muscular legs or a weapon (usually a club of some sort). Rarely, a Frogfolk will use his bite attack on an enemy. Amphibious (Ex): Though Frogfolk live on land, they do possess gills, and can survive underwater indefinitely. Skills: Due to their powerful leg muscles, Frogfolk receive a +4 racial bonus to Jump checks. Their coloration provides them with a +2 racial bonus to Hide checks. Frogfolk Society: Frogfolk schools are semi-nomadic collectives, moving back and forth between two or three seasonal camps. They make their homes among trees along riverbanks and coasts, and hunt and fish, settling into the local ecology. For all that they may seem crude and barbaric to outsiders, disdaining clothing and most tools in favor of their natural abilities, the frogfolk are actually a rather enlightened and civilized people. They are very ecclesiastical folk, being governed by a strict hierarchy of individuals. Each school is led by a Saint (a cleric), who is attended by several monks that assist in the day to day ruling of the school. There is always a shrine to the frogfolk patron, a being known only as "the Frog". This shrine is always underwater, and is always open to the Saint and his monks. On holy days, attendance to the shrine by all of the school is mandatory (and they are the only times the "lay" frogfolk are able to access the shrine). It is unknown exactly who or what "the Frog" is- no outsider has ever been in contact with such an entity, but frogfolk clerics have been observed casting divine spells. Some more radical schools of frogfolk regularly practice human sacrifice on behalf of the Frog. Frogfolk Characters: A frogfolk's favored class is monk, though only clerics can rise to the rank of Saint. Frogfolk spellcasters tend to be mostly clerics, though adepts are not unheard of; sorcerors are more common than wizards, but both are rare. Frogfolk clerics worship the Frog, and can choose two of the following domains: Animal, Knowledge, or Water. imal, Knowledge, or Water. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:27:42 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:03 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > >FYI -- Bullywugs and frog-folk were originally the same sort >of creature, regardless of how they may have diverged later. Sure- I didn't mean to sound as if I was disputing that. It's just the later divergencies, as you mention, that I was pointing out. I personally like the Frogfolk from DA2 much better than the dimwitted Bullywugs... I just can't get images of their bumbling through the swamps in the D&D cartoon out of my head. The Frogfolk of DA2 are much more potentially devastating, IMO. Particularly given that, as warm blooded amphibians, they can appear anywhere and everywhere in the world the DM wants- and provide a nasty opponent to the "standard" human races of the world (who would last all of 1-2 rounds in a fight with a Frogfolk.) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:38:53 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Mystaraspace In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 04:54 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > >My whole idea of these "Grens" being incapable of developing psionic >abilities or arcane spells is strongly tied to the idea of equating them >with the "Pure Strain Humans" of the final edition of Gamma World. Gotcha. I was wondering where that came from (if you maybe had some info I hadn't seen)- especially since when I think "Gren" I automatically think mutated human. :) That puts an interesting spin on the whole "Star Trek" motif, actually: the Galactic Federation is really the Knights of Genetic Purity masquerading as a benevolent organization. Puts them right up there with the Oards/Borg. (Oard: "You will be assimilated, goblin!" Federation Captain Bork Riesling: "You're not fit to lick the spit off my boots, mutant! Die!") Maybe its the war between the Federation and the Oard Chronarchy that's kept the Federation tied up all these millenia, unable to respond to the Beagle's distress call. Or maybe they wiped each other out, leaving the universe safe for normal, decent folk everywhere. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:42:20 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Frog-Folk, 3E style In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001111032402.00806da0@pop.wans.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:24 AM 11/11/00 -0800, you wrote: > >Frogfolk Society: Frogfolk schools are semi-nomadic collectives, moving >back and forth between two or three seasonal camps. They make their homes >among trees along riverbanks and coasts, and hunt and fish, settling into >the local ecology. Looking back over this, I'm inclined to think they stay in nests for most of their moves, seasonally (summer, probably) joining together in one large school. The school would be led by a Saint, while each nest would be led by one monk. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:31:08 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Frog-Folk, 3E style In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001111034220.00809480@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Am I the only one who didnt receive the original Frog-folk, 3E style mail? Could somebody repost this? H�vard On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Andrew Theisen wrote: > At 03:24 AM 11/11/00 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Frogfolk Society: Frogfolk schools are semi-nomadic collectives, moving > >back and forth between two or three seasonal camps. They make their homes > >among trees along riverbanks and coasts, and hunt and fish, settling into > >the local ecology. > > Looking back over this, I'm inclined to think they stay in nests for most > of their moves, seasonally (summer, probably) joining together in one large > school. The school would be led by a Saint, while each nest would be led by > one monk. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 04:52:59 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Frog-Folk, 3E style In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:31 PM 11/11/00 +0100, you wrote: >Am I the only one who didnt receive the original Frog-folk, 3E style mail? >Could somebody repost this? It may just not have gotten through yet- both were sent out right around the same time; I know that sometimes I have mail that gets time displaced... If it doesn't show up by later this afternoon, I'll go ahead and resend it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:22:58 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dylan Gault Subject: Re: Relic Hunter Prestige Class In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001111001509.007fd280@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Date sent: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:15:09 -0800 Send reply to: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: [MYSTARA] Relic Hunter Prestige Class To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Suggestions for Andrew Theisen's Relic Hunter: > Relic Hunter > > Hit Die: d6 > Requirements: Probably some Knowledge Skills (history plus one other) at > something like 5 ranks or so; possibly Skill Focus in one of them. Not sure > of what other requirements (aside from roleplaying ones- must find and > recover an artifact). I would suggest the ability to read some ancient landguage, like Nithian. Decipher Script in general should probably be both a requirement and a class skill. They must previously have performed an awful cover of Ballroom Blitz in a Mike Myers film. (The pain is real.) > Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (any) (Int), Decipher > Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Gather Information > (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (any) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (any) > (Wis), Search (Int), Speak Language, Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex). > > Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier I don't think this class would get out of hand with 6/level. > Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Relic Hunter is proficient with all > simple weapons and light armor (but not shields). > Don't forget to add whip. > Class Abilities: I'm not entirely sure, but I'm thinking along these lines- > > Attack Bonus: As Rogue > Saves: Good Will and Reflex, Poor Fortitude. > > Detect Magic: At will, the Relic Hunter can detect magic as a spell like > ability. > Bonuses to Use Magic Device and Decipher Script checks. > Analyze Dweomer: At 10th level, the Relic Hunter can use his knowledge to > gain the effects of an Analyze Dweomer spell. Unlike the spell, the Relic > Hunter *can* use this ability to gain information about an artifact (major > or minor). This is an extraordinary ability usable once per day. > Lore: Gains the ability to know information about people and places just > like the Bardic Knowledge ability. > Some sort of bonus/save versus the effects of Cursed items. > > Other than that, I'm sort of stuck. Any ideas here? I think that even with 6 skill points/level that there are a couple of other abilities needed. Somewhere in there I'd add the Uncanny Dodge ability versus traps. Take a look at the Understand Object spell at the WotC website. An ability like that could be nice. Dylan G ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:53:53 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Converting Freeport (was: Freeport Pirate prestige class) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:25:19 -0800 Andrew Theisen writes: > At 03:51 AM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > (Also, I haven't looked at the Freeport accessory yet, but I'm > thinking it > might be tweaked somewhat and dropped right into the Shadow Coast > somewhere- or Ne'er-Do-Well. Anyone else looked at it yet?) Acutally, if I didn't know better, I would say it was specifically written for Mystara in 1016. Ithink the Serpent's Teeth Islands can be easily dropped in as a psuedo-independant part of Ierendi (like most of that Kingdom, actually). The timeline mentions a large war on the main continent 11 years ago (1005- the Great War), though I haven't yet tried correlating older history with that of Ierendi's. The Cult of the Unspeakable One is obviously a Carnifex/Outer Being cult, and the Serpent People are degenerate descendants of the various reptilian empires. However, the "true history of the islands" needs to be changed to "History as the Serpent People know it" as it works fairly well as a corrupted version of legends of the Carnifex Tyranny, Serpentine Empire, and Y'hog. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:31:26 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Slavery Addendum (was Stefan DID INDEED Sell out...) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_48.d6147bb.273eea7e_boundary" --part1_48.d6147bb.273eea7e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more point to add about Stefan turning from Thyatian ways when he made the Machetos/Traladara trade.... Stefan was a slave holder while a duke in Thyatis (the emperor sells them off to rebuild the Thyatian military), yet when he settles into Traladara, he declares slavery illegal. This is economic suicide. Stefan's going to a huge tract of wilderness to carve out his own domain--using slaves would make the job quicker and a whole less painful. Thus, this would appear to be a moral decision. He and those who hope to one day share the spoils of the land must work towards that goal themselves. Seems fair. It's also un-Thyatian, showing that Stefan's value system wasn't quite the same as his homeland's. --part1_48.d6147bb.273eea7e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One more point to add about Stefan turning from Thyatian ways when he made
the Machetos/Traladara trade....

Stefan was a slave holder while a duke in Thyatis (the emperor sells them off
to rebuild the Thyatian military), yet when he settles into Traladara, he
declares slavery illegal.  This is economic suicide.  Stefan's going to a
huge tract of wilderness to carve out his own domain--using slaves would make
the job quicker and a whole less painful.

Thus, this would appear to be a moral decision.  He and those who hope to one
day share the spoils of the land must work towards that goal themselves.  
Seems fair.  It's also un-Thyatian, showing that Stefan's value system wasn't
quite the same as his homeland's. --part1_48.d6147bb.273eea7e_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:31:43 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_af.30cabb9.273eea8f_boundary" --part1_af.30cabb9.273eea8f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Stefan was given a choice: sell out his old "friend" (and I use that term VERY loosely) or sell out his nation. That's a no-brainer--he must be true to his nation's best interests. I'll agree that it's a hit to "PR crazed" Stefan, but the facts suggest he did the right thing, no matter what others might think. Ultimately, in Stefan's negotiating a deal with Alphatia, we see the end results of the Machetos/Traladara deal. Both men have accomplished their goals. Thincol has built up his war machine. He chooses to use it to attack Alphatia. Stefan has built Traladara into a prosperous nation. He chooses to stay the course and not get involved in the war. Simple as that. Here's my reasoning behind my assessment that Stefan did the right thing during the Great War: Point #1. The conflict started over disagreement over the use of forbidden magic between Glantri and Alphatia. Obviously, this was NOT a matter of utmost importance to Karameikos. The *entire Magician's Guild of Specularum* only knew a handful of spells above third-level; the Karameikan definition of "forbidden magic" seems to have been "any spell of 4th-level or greater." Karameikos has no real ties to either nation, so it's not Stefan's concern. Point #2. Later on, Alphatia and Glantri trade assassinations. As Glantri and Alphatia toss around threats and allegations about the assassinations, Thincol "informs Eriadna that Alphatia *will not be allowed* [their emphasis] to extend her territorial holdings through these treacherous means" (WotI Bk. 2, p. 76). Alarms go off in Stefan's head. He knows enough about Thincol to realize what's happening--Thincol's trying to switch a debate about forbidden magic and grievances over related assassinations into an accusation that Alphatia's trying to spread their empire. Thincol's trying to raise the stakes to give Thyatis a good reason for intervening in the affair. Point #3. In response to Glantrian adventurers burning down the Alphatian city of Aasla and killing half its inhabitants (AC 1,000 population: 400,000...so 200,000 folks--nearly a quarter of a million people--are killed in the blaze), Alphatia declares war of Glantri, and vice versa. The next day, Thyatis declares war on Alphatia, seeing through the flimsy excuse of 200,000 dead and recognizing Alphatia's true goal of world domination. Stefan probably saw this coming. It's no surprise. Now he has to decide what this means for Karameikos and what he's going to do in response. Let's imagine that he calls for the latest Karameikan census figures to be brought to him and starts adding up figures.... Specularum (15-yr.-old figure is 50,000; let's bump it up to 70,000) Kelvin (20,000) Fort Doom (10,000) Vorloi (7,500) Dmitrov (6,500) Threshold (5,000) Luln (5,000) Penhaligon (3,750) Sulescu (950) Marilenev (900) Rugalov (650) Stefan also throws in the non-human communities: Highforge (7,500) Rifllian (1,700) He does the math. His total is: 139,450. And he's out of towns. He looks again at the Aasla death toll: 200,000. At this point, any sane individual would say, "This war is out of my league." The military of Karameikos can't fight Alphatia--joining the war can only result in the destruction of his nation and quite possibly his friends and family. His lone reason for entering the war: a sense of loyalty to his homeland (but remember: he left Thyatis because he was sick of the back-stabbing politics). Stefan analyzed the situation, decided that Thyatis (and thus Karameikos) was almost certain to lose the war, and deduced that his response should be to make a treaty of Neutrality with Alphatia. As the leader of an autonomous nation, that's his right. It doesn't reflect particularly well upon him, but he decides to take the PR hit because his nation's welfare is infinitely more important. ****************** I said and jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM replied: <<<<<<<<< >> I've outlined Stefan's canon motives above, canon states that he & Thincol are friends, and canon states that Stefan's alignment is Lawful (Good). << I judge alignment by behavior, not by apologisms for misbehavior. Canon also says: "Karameikos Sells Out" "makes a secret diplomatic mission to Sundsvall." (If Stefan is this above-board, honorable, honest guy with nothing to hide and nothing to be ashamed of. . .) "The newly-established Kingdom of Karameikos agrees not to help Thyatis in this war - in effect, selling out their longtime allies." "rationalizes his betrayal of his homeland." (WotI, pp.79-80). This from the guy who wrote both Gaz1 AND DotE; I tend to think his assessment of Stefan's behavior is more accurate than your efforts to exculpate him. >>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm exercising my right to judge Stefan by his actions in response to what was thrown at him in the war, disregarding the labels chosen by the author. That same author, under the "What This Means" heading (still p. 80), says, "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's analysis of the situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare." That's what Stefan did: He analyzed and then reacted. If he choose blind allegiance to the Empire, this headline probably would've read "Stefan Sells Out His People." And then the AC 1010 GAZ would probably have had a little blurb proclaiming, "Stefan Karameikos Dies in Hunting Accident: Thincol reclaims Traladara." (More on the rationale behind this later). Being of true Thyatian stock, old Stefan's obviously learned something about dancing around unappealling treaties (James has cited the post-WotI "loophole" incident; I'll add that the reason Thincol needed money to rebuild the military was because a previous emperor had broken a peace treaty with Alphatia and paid a heavy price). What makes his deal with Alphatia great is its timing: he signs it *before* Alphatia invades Thyatis (that way, Stefan doesn't have to listen to Thincol whining about how the term "invasion" still applies even though Thyatis was the first to declare war, and under false pretenses [my sarcasm, not Stefan's]). It also happens early enough in the conflict that it doesn't cripple Thyatis--it simply gives Thincol fair warning: "You picked this fight--you fight it alone." --part1_af.30cabb9.273eea8f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Stefan was given a choice: sell out his old "friend" (and I use that term
VERY loosely) or sell out his nation.  That's a no-brainer--he must be true
to his nation's best interests.  I'll agree that it's a hit to "PR crazed"
Stefan, but the facts suggest he did the right thing, no matter what others
might think.

Ultimately, in Stefan's negotiating a deal with Alphatia, we see the end
results of the Machetos/Traladara deal.  Both men have accomplished their
goals.  Thincol has built up his war machine.  He chooses to use it to attack
Alphatia.  Stefan has built Traladara into a prosperous nation.  He chooses
to stay the course and not get involved in the war.  Simple as that.  

Here's my reasoning behind my assessment that Stefan did the right thing
during the Great War:

Point #1.  The conflict started over disagreement over the use of forbidden
magic between Glantri and Alphatia.  Obviously, this was NOT a matter of
utmost importance to Karameikos.  The *entire Magician's Guild of Specularum*
only knew a handful of spells above third-level; the Karameikan definition of
"forbidden magic" seems to have been "any spell of 4th-level or greater."  
Karameikos has no real ties to either nation, so it's not Stefan's concern.

Point #2.  Later on, Alphatia and Glantri trade assassinations.  As Glantri
and Alphatia toss around threats and allegations about the assassinations,
Thincol "informs Eriadna that Alphatia *will not be allowed* [their emphasis]
to extend her territorial holdings through these treacherous means" (WotI Bk.
2, p. 76).  Alarms go off in Stefan's head.  He knows enough about Thincol to
realize what's happening--Thincol's trying to switch a debate about forbidden
magic and grievances over related assassinations into an accusation that
Alphatia's trying to spread their empire.  Thincol's trying to raise the
stakes to give Thyatis a good reason for intervening in the affair.

Point #3.  In response to Glantrian adventurers burning down the Alphatian
city of Aasla and killing half its inhabitants (AC 1,000 population:
400,000...so 200,000 folks--nearly a quarter of a million people--are killed
in the blaze), Alphatia declares war of Glantri, and vice versa.  The next
day, Thyatis declares war on Alphatia, seeing through the flimsy excuse of
200,000 dead and recognizing Alphatia's true goal of world domination.

Stefan probably saw this coming.  It's no surprise.  Now he has to decide
what this means for Karameikos and what he's going to do in response.
Let's imagine that he  calls for the latest Karameikan census figures to be
brought to him and starts adding up figures....

Specularum (15-yr.-old figure is 50,000; let's bump it up to 70,000)
Kelvin (20,000)
Fort Doom (10,000)
Vorloi (7,500)
Dmitrov (6,500)
Threshold (5,000)
Luln (5,000)
Penhaligon (3,750)
Sulescu (950)
Marilenev (900)
Rugalov (650)

Stefan also throws in the non-human communities:
Highforge (7,500)
Rifllian (1,700)

He does the math.  His total is: 139,450.  And he's out of towns.  He looks
again at the Aasla death toll: 200,000.  At this point, any sane individual
would say, "This war is out of my league."  The military of Karameikos can't
fight Alphatia--joining the war can only result in the destruction of his
nation and quite possibly his friends and family.  His lone reason for
entering the war: a sense of loyalty to his homeland (but remember: he left
Thyatis because he was sick of the back-stabbing politics).

Stefan analyzed the situation, decided that Thyatis (and thus Karameikos) was
almost certain to lose the war, and deduced that his response should be to
make a treaty of Neutrality with Alphatia.  As the leader of an autonomous
nation, that's his right.

It doesn't reflect particularly well upon him, but he decides to take the PR
hit because his nation's welfare is infinitely more important.

******************

I said and jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM replied:

<<<<<<<<<
>> I've outlined Stefan's canon motives above, canon states that he & Thincol
are friends, and canon states that Stefan's alignment is Lawful (Good). <<

I judge alignment by behavior, not by apologisms for misbehavior. Canon also
says:

"Karameikos Sells Out"

"makes a secret diplomatic mission to Sundsvall."

(If Stefan is this above-board, honorable, honest guy with nothing to hide
and nothing to be ashamed of. . .)

"The newly-established Kingdom of Karameikos agrees not to help Thyatis in
this war - in effect, selling out their longtime allies."

"rationalizes his betrayal of his homeland." (WotI, pp.79-80).

This from the guy who wrote both Gaz1 AND DotE; I tend to think his
assessment of Stefan's behavior is more accurate than your efforts to
exculpate him.
>>>>>>>>>>

Well, I'm exercising my right to judge Stefan by his actions in response to
what was thrown at him in the war, disregarding the labels chosen by  the
author.  That same author, under the "What This Means" heading (still p. 80),
says, "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's analysis of the
situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare."

That's what Stefan did: He analyzed and then reacted.
If he choose blind allegiance to the Empire, this headline probably would've
read "Stefan Sells Out His People."  And then the AC 1010 GAZ would probably
have had a little blurb proclaiming, "Stefan Karameikos Dies in Hunting
Accident: Thincol reclaims Traladara."  (More on the rationale behind this
later).

Being of true Thyatian stock, old Stefan's obviously learned something about
dancing around unappealling treaties (James has cited the post-WotI
"loophole" incident; I'll add that the reason Thincol needed money to rebuild
the military was because a previous emperor had broken a peace treaty with
Alphatia and paid a heavy price).  What makes his deal with Alphatia great is
its timing: he signs it *before* Alphatia invades Thyatis (that way, Stefan
doesn't have to listen to Thincol whining about how the term "invasion" still
applies even though Thyatis was the first to declare war, and under false
pretenses [my sarcasm, not Stefan's]).  It also happens early enough in the
conflict that it doesn't cripple Thyatis--it simply gives Thincol fair
warning: "You picked this fight--you fight it alone."

--part1_af.30cabb9.273eea8f_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:38:43 CST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Byron D. Molix" Subject: Regional Feats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The following is from my effort to spice up my campaign, and encourage my players to make their characters memorable in a memorable setting like Mystara. I created up all of the following except: Arcane Flexibility, Armored Casting, Luck of Heroes, Mercantile Background, Spell Flash and Thug. These are adaptations or created by Wizards of the Coast. Hopefully, I haven't invalidated any official feats, and these will complement those nicely. Byron Arcane Flexibility [General] You learned how to flexibly prepare spells during your training at the spell academy. Region: Alphatia, Glantri Benefit: You may prepare spells in a way that suits your taste, treating each spell you could ordinarily cast per day as a number of levels equivalent to the spell level. You still cannot take more than your normal maximum of spells from the highest level you can cast. Likewise, spell levels can be allocated above your highest level, but these cannot be more than your normal maximum of spells from your highest level either. These higher-level slots can only be used to prepare meta-magically enhanced spells. Note: If you are a bard or sorcerer this feat means that you can expend extra spell-levels to cast a meta-magically enhanced spell exactly one level higher than the highest spell level you can normally cast. Armored Casting [General] Your people have mastered a way to cast arcane spells while wearing armor. Regions: Alfheim, Glantri: Erewan, Karameikos: Callarii Elves, Thyatis: Vyalia Elves, Wendar Other Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Arcane Spellcaster Level 1+ Benefit: Any character who has mastered this feat reduces their arcane failure penalty by 10 percent as long as they are proficient with the armor and shields they are wearing. This feat counts as a 'magical' bonus feat for Wizards. Note: Other elves may learn this feat as a non-regional feat at GM discretion. Focused Attention [General] Your people are extremely disciplined and capable of single-minded actions in adversity. Regions: Rockhome, Ylaruam Benefit: You may Take 10 on any one roll that you ordinarily would not be able to do so on, including in a combat situation. You may only do this once per day. Giant-Slayer [General] Your people fight against large adversaries on a continual basis, thus you've gotten good at fending off their raids and on hunting them down. Regions: Rockhome, Vestland Benefit: +1 Attack and Damage bonus versus Giants, +1 Wilderness Lore to track Giants. Glib Tongue [General] Your people value cleverness and good storytelling, and most of the brightest among you have aspects of both. Regions: Ostland, Soderfjord Jarldoms, Thyatis: Pearl Islands, Vestland Benefit: You have a +2 bonus to Bluff or Perform (Storytelling) checks. Harmonious Existence [General] Your people have grown to live in your environment and harmoniously exist therein. You are also familiar with the best ways to defend your homelands. Regions: Alfheim, Five Shires, Thyatis: Ochalea, Ylaruam Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to Wilderness Lore checks made within your homeland or lands almost exactly like them. When fighting on your homeland soil, or in the waters claimed by your people, you gain a +1 morale bonus to attacks and AC. If the environment of your homeland causes penalties to action, you do not gain the bonus to combat, but instead are not penalized. Horse Mastery [General] Your family trained you well when it comes to horses. Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Ethengar, Thyatis: Kerendas Benefit: You gain +2 bonus to Appraise, Handle Animal and Ride checks. Your regular mount's quality rating is also one better than normal as long as you or someone else with this feat tends it. Independent Mind [General] Your people are extremely independent, and don't like authority. Regions: Alphatia: Norwold, Heldannic Freeholds (not Knights), Hinterlands, Soderfjord Jarldoms Benefit: You find it very easy to remain stubborn about your beliefs and resist orders from other people. You gain +1 morale bonus to resist Charm, Command, Domination, etc. spells, as well as Intimidate checks. You also gain a +1 to AC whenever you fight alone (that is without coordination with other combatants). Industrious Outlook [General] Your people push themselves to be the best they can, and it shows. Regions: Karameikos, Minrothad Guilds, Rockhome, Thyatis, Thyatis: Pearl Islands, Ylaruam Benefit: Choose one skill when this feat is taken. This skill is considered a class-skill for you as long as it isn't a restricted skill that you don't already have. When you can choose a new feat (i.e. two to three levels later) you can change the skill this feat applies to. Inherent Confidence [General] Your people have a high opinion of yourselves, perhaps justified, and it colors your interactions with other peoples. Regions: Alfheim, Alphatia (nobility only), Alphatia: Isle of Dawn, Glantri: Bergdhoven, Thyatis: Hattias Benefit: You gain a +1 to all Willpower saves, and +2 bonus for the purpose of making or resisting Diplomacy and Intimidate checks the first time you encounter someone. Inquisitive Drive [General] Your people are curious about the world at large, and often will go to extreme lengths to discover new things. Regions: Alphatia, Heldannic Freeholds, Thyatis Benefit: All Knowledge skills are class skills for you. Also, you gain a +2 bonus to resist Bluff, and Intimidate checks, but only in the midst of an exploratory adventure. Inscrutability [General] Your people are viewed as mysterious, unpredictable or strange. Other cultures have trouble understanding you. Regions: Alphatia, Ierendi, Sind, Thyatis: Ochalea, Wendar, Yavldom Benefit: You have a +2 bonus on any check directly in opposition to Sense Motive, unless facing someone who has this feat, then your bonus drops to +1. You cannot use this feat versus people from your own culture who have this feat. Luck of Heroes [General] Your people survive when no one expects them to come through. Regions: Five Shires, Heldannic Freeholds (not Knights), Karameikos (Traladaran) Benefit: You gain +1 bonus to all Fortitude, Reflex and Will saves. Mercantile Background [General] You come from a family that excels at a particular trade. Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Aalban, Karameikos, Minrothad Guilds, Ylaruam Benefit: Choose a Craft or Profession skill. You get a +3 bonus to all Craft or Profession checks for that skill and a +3 bonus to Appraise checks involving items relevant to that skill. Military Genius [General] You come from a long line of generals or have unbelievable talent polished by your culture's reverence for battlefield prowess. Regions: Ethengar, Sind, Thyatis Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus to the Knowledge: Military Tactics skill and given accurate intelligence your leadership of a small force allows them +1 to Spot and Listen checks to avoid ambush, and +1 to Initiative checks made during a surprise round. Militia Experience [General] Your people commonly serve as members of your region's military force or respond in times of extreme need. Regions: Ethengar, Glantri: Aalban, Vestland Benefit: You gain +1 to Fortitude and Reflex saves, and have a bonus of +2 to Wilderness Checks to resist the elements. Political Background [General] You come from a family that excels in public service, or wielding political power. Regions: Darokin, Glantri, Ierendi, Thyatis Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to all Diplomacy, Gather Information, Innuendo, and Sense Motive checks dealing with the government of any republic, democracy, limited monarchy, plutocracy or magocracy. Sea Legs [General] Your family has worked the sea for so long that you have grown up near it, giving you knowledge and skill others work hard to possess. Regions: Five Shires, Ierendi, Minrothad Guilds, Ostland, Thyatis: Pearl Islands Benefit: +2 to Swim checks, and +2 to Craft, and Profession checks related to fishing, sailing, shipbuilding, etc. Spell Flash [Metamagic] Your magical training includes numerous ways to alter spells so that they impress as well as perform their intended functions. Regions: Glantri Benefit: Every spell you cast, if you wish it, is of a custom color, has a dazzling spread or other flashy effect. 25 % of the time, this translates into a -1 morale penalty to Will saving throws or +1 to Intimidate attempts immediately following such a spell. Increasing the spell-casting time guarantees a spectacular result. Spells that take one action take one round, one round takes two rounds, one minute takes two minutes, etc. Spells without visible or audible effects cannot be affected by this feat. Survival Sense [General] You come from an unstable environment, thus you are always looking out to save yourself from circumstances beyond your control. Regions: Broken Lands, Glantri, Graakhalia, Hule Benefit: You either get a +2 to spot checks to avoid dangerous circumstances that would otherwise result in surprise, or you get a +1 bonus to Reflex saves, depending on which the situation warrants. Thug [General] Your people know how to get the jump on the competition and push other people around. Regions: Broken Lands, Ethengar, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), Soderfjord Jarldoms, Thyatis: Hattias Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on Initiative Checks, a +2 bonus on Intimidate Checks, and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. Two-Weapon Fencing [General] Your people have made it a habit to fight with light weapons and with extreme precision. Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Belcadiz, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Renardy, etc.) Benefit: +1 AC to all non-flanking opponents when using a one-handed sword and small or tiny backup weapon. If using the Total Defense action, you may apply the bonus to even a Flanking character. Unshakable Faith [General] Your people are rewarded for their faith every day, and concepts that fall outside that faith do not seriously affect your people. Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), Yavldom, Ylaruam Benefit: You gain a +2 morale bonus to Will saves versus fear effects, and a +1 bonus versus diplomacy attempts to change a fundamental belief you hold. War Mandate [General] Your people feel it is your right to make war and crush those weaker than you. Regions: Broken Lands, Glantri: New Kolland, Ostland Benefit: You fight as if under the effects of a Bless spell, as long as your personal war leader is alive and directing the battle. You gain no benefit or penalty if your leader is absent but still believed to be alive, or at home. You are affected as if under a Bane spell if your leader is cut down before your eyes, although you most likely will wish to take revenge. This melancholy remains until you return to your 'home' whether that is a camp well away from enemy lands, or your original homeland. Note: If you are a Barbarian, your rage lasts one round longer than normal if the Bless effect is applicable. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:34:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Regional Feats [Savage Coast addendum] In-Reply-To: <20001111204808.02B4C8240@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >From my own opinion, I'll chime in for some "Regions" that could be added from the Savage Coast and Orc's Head Peninsula. Of course, all my suggestions are wholly my own opinion. > Armored Casting [General] > > Regions: Alfheim, Glantri: Erewan, Karameikos: Callarii Elves, Thyatis: > Vyalia Elves, Wendar Maybe the Kingdom of Aeryl? > Focused Attention [General] > > Regions: Rockhome, Ylaruam Maybe Nimmur and Eshu > Glib Tongue [General] > > Regions: Ostland, Soderfjord Jarldoms, Thyatis: Pearl Islands, Vestland Eusdria? > Harmonious Existence [General] > > Regions: Alfheim, Five Shires, Thyatis: Ochalea, Ylaruam Lands of Wallara and Robrenn > Horse Mastery [General] > > Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Ethengar, Thyatis: Kerendas Cimmaron, Guadalante, and El Grande Carrascal. Other places have a history of nomad existance on riding mounts. Bellayne and the Feliquin, Renardy and the Dire Wolf, various Yazak Steppe goblinoids with either a war boar (orc), dire wolf (hobgoblin), worg (goblin). > Independent Mind [General] > > Soderfjord Jarldoms Could be much of the Savage Baronies, but definitely Cimmaron and Guadalante > Industrious Outlook [General] > > Islands, Ylaruam I'm not sure I can say I really understand this. The name and the benefits seem to be of different purposes. By looking at the benefit, I'd say that Renardy could fit because of the nation's singleminded bent to finding the perfect wine. Maybe the City-States > Inherent Confidence [General] > > Regions: Alfheim, Alphatia (nobility only), Alphatia: Isle of Dawn, Glantri: > Bergdhoven, Thyatis: Hattias Personal opinion, but I think Belayne fits this. Possibly Narvaez also. > Inquisitive Drive [General] > > Your people are curious about the world at large, and often will go to > extreme lengths to discover new things. > Regions: Alphatia, Heldannic Freeholds, Thyatis The Baronies of Villaverde and Texieras. Maybe Renardy and Cimmaron. > Inscrutability [General] > > Regions: Alphatia, Ierendi, Sind, Thyatis: Ochalea, Wendar, Yavldom Land of Wallara. Maybe Herath. Could Hule fit this? > Luck of Heroes [General] > > Regions: Five Shires, Heldannic Freeholds (not Knights), Karameikos > (Traladaran) Tortle Tribelands. Maybe Cimmaron and Jibaru and the City-States > Mercantile Background [General] > > Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Aalban, Karameikos, Minrothad Guilds, Ylaruam I guess this is where Renardy fits with their Wine fanaticism best. Cimmaron, Vilaverde and Texieras. > Military Genius [General] > > Regions: Ethengar, Sind, Thyatis Torreon? > Militia Experience [General] > > Regions: Ethengar, Glantri: Aalban, Vestland Torreon. Maybe Eusdria? > Political Background [General] > > Regions: Darokin, Glantri, Ierendi, Thyatis Maybe Gargona and Almarron. > Sea Legs [General] > > Regions: Five Shires, Ierendi, Minrothad Guilds, Ostland, Thyatis: Pearl > Islands Villaverda and Texieras > Survival Sense [General] > > Regions: Broken Lands, Glantri, Graakhalia, Hule Hmm, not sure. > Thug [General] > > Regions: Broken Lands, Ethengar, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), > Soderfjord Jarldoms, Thyatis: Hattias Maybe Narvaez and Yazak Steppes > Two-Weapon Fencing [General] > > Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Belcadiz, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Renardy, etc.) The Savage Baronies, Renardy. I'm not sure I'd say Bellayne since their weapon favoritism leans towards Asian flavor. > Unshakable Faith [General] > > Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), Yavldom, > Ylaruam Aeryl, Nimmur, Eshu, Narvaez, Robrenn > War Mandate [General] > > Regions: Broken Lands, Glantri: New Kolland, Ostland Tough calls for this. Just not sure if it applies well, but seemingly the lands of Hule adjacent to the Gulf of Hule fits this. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:05:56 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Smith wrote: > > Stefan was given a choice: sell out his old "friend" (and I use that > term > VERY loosely) or sell out his nation. That's a no-brainer--he must be > true > to his nation's best interests. I'll agree that it's a hit to "PR > crazed" > Stefan, but the facts suggest he did the right thing, no matter what > others > might think. > He did the right thing for his nation, but that in no way means he did a good or honorable thing. Hitler has done some right things for Germany too (not everything he did was right for Germany, mind you, but some things were). > Point #1. The conflict started over disagreement over the use of > forbidden > magic between Glantri and Alphatia. Obviously, this was NOT a matter > of > utmost importance to Karameikos. The *entire Magician's Guild of > Specularum* > only knew a handful of spells above third-level; the Karameikan > definition of > "forbidden magic" seems to have been "any spell of 4th-level or > greater." > Karameikos has no real ties to either nation, so it's not Stefan's > concern. > It was only his concern when he snatched some Alphatian wizards for himself in the deal and had them build him a magic school. > Point #2. Later on, Alphatia and Glantri trade assassinations. As > Glantri > and Alphatia toss around threats and allegations about the > assassinations, > Thincol "informs Eriadna that Alphatia *will not be allowed* [their > emphasis] > to extend her territorial holdings through these treacherous means" > (WotI Bk. > 2, p. 76). Alarms go off in Stefan's head. He knows enough about > Thincol to > realize what's happening--Thincol's trying to switch a debate about > forbidden > magic and grievances over related assassinations into an accusation > that > Alphatia's trying to spread their empire. Thincol's trying to raise > the > stakes to give Thyatis a good reason for intervening in the affair. > Perhaps, but it would be naive to think that once Alphatia defeated Glantri they would just go away and leave it in peace. > nation and quite possibly his friends and family. His lone reason for > > entering the war: a sense of loyalty to his homeland (but remember: he > left > Thyatis because he was sick of the back-stabbing politics). > No, he left Thyatis because he wanted to mold a nation in self-image without inconvenient interference from higher authorities. > Stefan analyzed the situation, decided that Thyatis (and thus > Karameikos) was > almost certain to lose the war, and deduced that his response should > be to > make a treaty of Neutrality with Alphatia. As the leader of an > autonomous > nation, that's his right. > And again, he never seemed to emphasize or mention his autonomy before then. > It doesn't reflect particularly well upon him, but he decides to take > the PR > hit because his nation's welfare is infinitely more important. > Again, this in no way indicates his alignment to be good. > Well, I'm exercising my right to judge Stefan by his actions in > response to > what was thrown at him in the war, disregarding the labels chosen by > the > author. That same author, under the "What This Means" heading (still > p. 80), > says, "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's analysis of > the > situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare." > What the author says generally reflects the truth behind the events, since this is not an in-character account, but a description of what Stefan *REALLY* does and thinks. One of those things is "rationalizing his betrayal" - that is something that I usually see Lawful Evil characters do, find nice-sounding excuses for their treacherous acts. > Being of true Thyatian stock, old Stefan's obviously learned something > about > dancing around unappealling treaties (James has cited the post-WotI > "loophole" incident; I'll add that the reason Thincol needed money to > rebuild > the military was because a previous emperor had broken a peace treaty > with > Alphatia and paid a heavy price). What makes his deal with Alphatia > great is > its timing: he signs it *before* Alphatia invades Thyatis (that way, > Stefan > doesn't have to listen to Thincol whining about how the term > "invasion" still > applies even though Thyatis was the first to declare war, and under > false > pretenses [my sarcasm, not Stefan's]). It also happens early enough > in the > conflict that it doesn't cripple Thyatis--it simply gives Thincol fair > > warning: "You picked this fight--you fight it alone." Actually, Alphatia started the invasion in Fall of 1005, on the Isle of Dawn. Stefan makes his deal in Spring of 1006, six months after Alphatia invaded Thyatian lands. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:31:37 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Solmyr wrote: > > What the author says generally reflects the truth behind the events, > since this is not an in-character account, but a description of what > Stefan *REALLY* does and thinks. One of those things is "rationalizing > his betrayal" - that is something that I usually see Lawful Evil > characters do, find nice-sounding excuses for their treacherous acts. > Oh, and anyone who has played in my Mystaran PBEM knows that the Master of Hule generally did this sort of thing, rationalize his activities against others. And he even had better excuses than Stefan does in this case :) -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:11:05 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > Stefan analyzed the situation, decided that Thyatis (and thus > > Karameikos) was > > almost certain to lose the war, and deduced that his response should > > be to > > make a treaty of Neutrality with Alphatia. As the leader of an > > autonomous > > nation, that's his right. > > > And again, he never seemed to emphasize or mention his autonomy before > then. Until that point there was no advantage is Stefan emphasizing his autonomity. When the Grand Duchy of Kamakeikos was first formed, many nations still regarded it as part of the Thyatian Empire, and it was in Stefans interests to keep up this charade in those fledgling years. Later, it was becoming increasingly more accepted that Karameikos was an independant nation to Thyatis (note that Aphatia didn't though, otherwise they would have had an Alphatian embassy in Karameikos). It was at this point that the hostilities between Glantri and Alphatia broke out. Stefan didn't see the point in taking sides then, even when Thyatis started its posturing on the side of Glantri. Only when Alphatia invaded Thyatis did Stefan decide to openly declare his neutrality in the matter (thus enforcing his stance that Karameikos was an independant country). This showed Aphatia that Karameikos was an independant country with no ties to Thyatis, and also was done at a time when Thyatis could do nothing in reprisal to Karameikos. All in all, sounds like good political manoeuvring to me. Somebody must have been giving him lessons! :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:09:53 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leonardo Damon Giuliani Subject: Re: Bargle Death Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Il Sat, 11 November 2000, Beau Yarbrough ha scritto: > What year? It happen about in the year 1002 AC, slayed by two displacer beasts.... It's a long, long story.... AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:34:24 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis >> Until that point there was no advantage is Stefan emphasizing his autonomity. When the Grand Duchy of Kamakeikos was first formed, many nations still regarded it as part of the Thyatian Empire, and it was in Stefans interests to keep up this charade in those fledgling years. << There; you just admitted that Stefan did everything he did, not for reasons of honor and principle, but for reasons of self-interest. Yes, "back-stabbing politics" indeed; Stefan is a master of back-stabbing politics: as you pointed out, he used the Empire as long as it served him to, pretending to continue to be Thincol's "friend" so that Thincol would go along with the charade - then, when it no longer served his interests, he sold out the Empire, betrayed his friend, and sent out his propagandists (yourself) to retroactively justify his actions. Solmyr got everything right in his comments on your polemic. The Master of Hule is good at these sort of self-serving rationalizations, too, as he mentioned. I suppose we could argue who's better at it. I might say Stefan, because he, unaccountably, still keeps a reputation for virtue and even heroism dispite his many misdeeds, but some might say Hosadus, because he has to overcome his bad reputation in working his plots, and generally does so, while Stefan is more lucky (and fortunate in attracting apologists, like flies on. . .) than skilled. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:37:08 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Bargle Death >> It happen about in the year 1002 AC, slayed by two displacer beasts....It's a long, long story....<< Sounds interesting. Please tell it, if you have the time to write it. 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:27:54 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Froggies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 6:29:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, jsmill@WANS.NET writes: > Particularly given that, as warm blooded amphibians, they > can appear anywhere and everywhere in the world the DM wants- and provide a > nasty opponent to the "standard" human races of the world (who would last > all of 1-2 rounds in a fight with a Frogfolk.) Furthermore, with the axial tilt that followed the GroF, only warm- blooded Frogfolk could have survived the "nuclear winter" that followed. In fact, it would not surprise me if those Frogfolk who remained in northern Skothar eventually adapted to cold conditions, maybe even to the point that they receive the same "Cold" modifier that Frost Giants do. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 23:15:58 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: <20001112024646.95C21813F@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I was fooling around with some Savage Coast prestige class conversions and just finished up with the Inheritor and the Gaucho. For all to see and I hope offer helpful criticisms, here is my attempt at the Gaucho. Gaucho Lvl Attack Fort Ref Will Special 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Horse control, Bonus Feat 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Canny aim +1d10 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Feat, Mounted Marksmanship +1d10 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Rapid Reload 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Bonus Feat 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Canny aim +2d10 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Mounted Marksmanship +2d10 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Bonus Feat 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Canny aim +3d10 Requirements Homeland: Must be a resident of the Savage Baronies Ride: 8 ranks Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Track, Proficiency (bola, firearms) Special: Must purchase a light horse or light warhorse; and receive a ridin= g saddle, saddle blanket, bit and bridle, horseshoes, and saddlebags without expenditure. A gaucho never own horses larger than the light horse or ligh= t warhorse. The gaucho must also purchase bolas, a dagger and a pistol. Special: The gaucho must have wagered his entire fortune in a game of chanc= e at least once before becoming a gaucho. Whether it was lost or not does no= t matter. There must have been a real chance of losing it, and not a rigged game. Class Skills Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier Animal Empathy (Cha) Bluff (Cha) Craft (Blacksmith) (Int) Craft (Leatherworking)(Int) Craft (Trapmaking)(Int) Craft (Weaponsmithing, Crude)(Int) Handle Animal (Cha) Intimidate (Cha) Intuit Direction (Wis) Listen (Wis) Search(Int) Spot (Wis) Use Rope (Dex) Wilderness Lore (Wis) Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gauchos are proficient with the following weapons: Bola, club, dagger, dart, firearms(pistol), hand axe, javelin, light lance, light pick, light flail, light mace, sabre, sap, throwing axe, and whip. The gaucho will only wear padded, leather or studded leather. Gauchos are not proficient in shield. Pistols are not effective outside th= e Haze, where the smokepowder loses its magical effect. Bonus Feat: At second level andevery two levels thereafter (4th, 6th, 8th and 10th). These bonus feats must be drawn from the following list: Alertness, Ambidexterity, Far Shot, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes= , Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quickdraw, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus. Horse Control: The Gaucho can control a light horse in battle as if the horse was a trained warhorse. Horse control also gives the gaucho a +4 competance bonus to all ride checks. Mounted Marksmanship: At 3rd level, the gaucho gains the extraordinary ability to hit precisely with a shot from his pistol while mounted on his horse, gaining a bonus of +1d10 points of damage added to his normal damage roll. When using his mounted marksmanship skill, the gaucho cannot attack with a weapon in his other hand and also suffers a -4 penalty on all initiative checks and cannot rapid reload after firing. Further, the penalty the gaucho suffers when using his pistol from horseback is halved; -2 instead of -4 if the horse is taking a double move, and -4 instead of -8 if the horse is running. The gaucho increases his extra damage by another +1d0 at level 9. Like critical hits and sneak attacks, the mounted marksmanship extra damage is ineffective against constructs, undead, and oozes. The gaucho can use his mounted marksmanship if the gaucho is not in armor heavier than studded leather. Rapid Reload: The Gaucho has learned how to reload his pistol fast enough that he no longer needs to spend a standard action reloading it. This applies only to his own pistol, but after firing ten shots with an unfamiliar pistol the gaucho can also apply rapid reload to that specific new pistol. Uncanny Aim: At 2nd level, the gaucho gains the extraordinary ability to hi= t precisely with a shot from his pistol, gaining a bonus of +1d10 points of damage added to his normal damage roll. When using his uncanny aim, the gaucho cannot attack with a weapon in his other hand and also suffers a -4 penalty on all Reflex checks that round and cannot rapid reload after firing. Like critical hits and sneak attacks, the uncanny aim is ineffective against constructs, undead, and oozes; but fortified armor is effected. Every four gaucho levels gained thereafter, he increases the extra damage by +1d10. If the gaucho also has the rogue=B9s sneak attack ability, the precise strike stacks with the sneak attack damage. Uncanny aim is only effective if the gaucho is not in armor heavier than studded leather. and unmounted. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:20:10 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Relic Hunter Prestige Class In-Reply-To: <20001111161812.UIMN10530.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@oemcomp uter> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:22 AM 11/11/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I would suggest the ability to read some ancient landguage, like >Nithian. Decipher Script in general should probably be both a >requirement and a class skill. Those are good suggestions. >I don't think this class would get out of hand with 6/level. Probably not- especially as they don't really have a lot of bang for the buck at the moment. >Don't forget to add whip. I wasn't sure about this one. It works for Indiana Jones, but I was thinking maybe he was a special case (Rogue/Relic Hunter who picked up an Exotic Weapon proficiency in Whip because it was cool.) >I think that even with 6 skill points/level that there are a couple of >other abilities needed. Somewhere in there I'd add the Uncanny >Dodge ability versus traps. Good suggestion. >Take a look at the Understand Object spell at the WotC website. An ability like that could be nice. I'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestions! ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:34:17 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Froggies In-Reply-To: <58.32807ef.273f5a2a@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:27 PM 11/11/00 EST, you wrote: > >Furthermore, with the axial tilt that followed the GroF, only warm- >blooded Frogfolk could have survived the "nuclear winter" that followed. >In fact, it would not surprise me if those Frogfolk who remained in >northern Skothar eventually adapted to cold conditions, maybe even >to the point that they receive the same "Cold" modifier that Frost >Giants do. Cool- I was wondering how to distinguish my Toad Men of Ghyr from the Frogfolk, and now you've given me an idea. I always had the idea that they were an offshoot or a different genetic "batch" (created by splicing genes of Rock Toads with humans), and now I've got some interesting things to do with them. As for any Frogkin adapting to cold conditions, I'll just mention the Immortal Stodos (from module M1: Blizzard Pass), a toadlike figure who is also known as "Lord of the Icy Wastes". Possibly a Frogfolk or Toad Man who attained Immortality in the Sphere of Entropy? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 21:35:49 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Looks good so far, the only suggestion I can think of offhand is that they should get some sort of Improved Trip ability (with the lasso or whip), or Improved Grab (with the whip or lasso). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 05:50:36 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul George Dooley Subject: Re: Mystaran axial tilt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Knott" To: Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:54 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mystaran axial tilt > In a message dated 2000-11-09 2:18:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dooley@CABLEINET.CO.UK writes: > > > Cheers, didn't think of that. Seems that, depending on just how Columbus > > like you are in taking the measurements that best suit your own personal > > preference, huge areas of the Sunless Area are nothing of the sort. For > > depending on season and time of day they may actually see the outer sun. Ad > > in scattered light from the red sun and the journey though still extremely > > perilous just got a little easier. > > See the "Hollow World Diagram" -- the rings around the outer world > parts of the openings are the "Sunless Area" or the "Darklands", in > contradiction to the polar maps that suggest that the entire opening > areas are in perpetual darkness. In fact the limits of the zone of > perpetual darkness are set by visibility of the inner sun from the > Hollow World side and by the limit of axial tilt from the outer world > side. Of course, well beyond the outer world limit on the zone of > perpetual darkness we have a region that is usually in darkness > except around noon around the appropriate solstice, with daylight > gradually becoming more common as you move outwards. > > By the way -- from looking at the maps, the locations of the tropics > and Arctic/Antarctic circles seem to be close to those of the real > world, which would give Mysatara an axial tilt of 23 degrees 27 > minutes. > That's the map I'm playing with. The inner limits will be pretty much fixed, depending on if the red sun is stationary or actually orbits around the geometric centre of Mystara, however any peaks which are high enough, and not too far around the curve of the world, will have direct sunlight. Further out the sun will be below the horizon but, like in extreem latitudes, there will be areas which have lots of light as the atmosphere, if not the land, is in direct light, gradually going darker as you continue to head away from the red sun until you reah a point where it is only airless void within the cone of light. The outer limit is the Columbus one. Depending on what point you take the size of the hole to signify, size on outer world, size on inner world, closest point or even size at transition from inner to outer world as well as your own estimate for the axial tilt, probably somewhere between 22 and 24 degrees, the area in which the sun never rises goes from smallest with lesser angles and size being of the outer world hole to largest with a bigger angle and the size being the distance between closest opposite points. We are talking about tens of thousands of square miles after all, and many days travel to and from the hollow world with the welcome glint of the sun, which for morale alone is a huge boost just ask anyone who's served in the arctic/Antarctic during winter. When you add in the probable Alphatian projects for creating space mirrors to reflect light onto the trade routes between both their empires. It may be cold, there may be no magic, but it isn't sunless any more! ;^) Hamlet I, v, 166. Words to live by? Paul ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:49 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Relic Hunter Prestige Class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 11:30:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, dylan.gault@SYMPATICO.CA writes: > Take a look at the Understand Object > spell at the WotC website. An ability like that could be nice. Maybe they should get the "Bardic Knowledge" ability, assuming that they don't already have it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:45 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 7:55:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM writes: > There; you just admitted that Stefan did everything he did, not for reasons > of honor and principle, but for reasons of self-interest. Of course, the very fact that Stefan was good friends with Thincol should be enough to suggest that he was motivated primarily by self-interest, perversely enough. People tend to get along best with people who share similar attitudes, and since Thincol was clearly more pragmatic than honorable, it would have put a strain on their friendship if Stefan had been more honorable than pragmatic. What preserved their friendship for as long as it lasted was that their interests pretty much coincided until nearly everyone became convinced that the Alphatians were about to overrun the entire Known World and beat the crap out of anyone friendly to Thyatis. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:48 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 1:43:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Demmero@AOL.COM writes: > What makes his deal with Alphatia great is > its timing: he signs it *before* Alphatia invades Thyatis (that way, Stefan > doesn't have to listen to Thincol whining about how the term "invasion" still > applies even though Thyatis was the first to declare war, and under false > pretenses [my sarcasm, not Stefan's]). It also happens early enough in the > conflict that it doesn't cripple Thyatis--it simply gives Thincol fair > warning: "You picked this fight--you fight it alone." Actually the timing of the Karameikos treaty with Alphatia was critical. At the time of that treaty, the Alphatians were kicking Thyatian butt on the Isle of Dawn, had conquered West Portage, and were steadily advancing towards complete control of the island (which they would achieve two years after the treaty). The loss of nerve on the part of the supposedly loyal allies (Karameikos) and subjects (Ochalea, the Pearl Islands, and ) could only have hastened that conquest. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:56 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Regional Feats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2000-11-11 3:55:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, lockheart1930@HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I created up all of the following except: Arcane Flexibility, Armored > Casting, Luck of Heroes, Mercantile Background, Spell Flash and Thug. These > are adaptations or created by Wizards of the Coast. Which ones are which? I know that Luck of Heroes, Mercantile Background, and Thug were created by WotC. Were any of the others? > Arcane Flexibility [General] This one looks good, but shouldn't it be a metamagic feat? > Armored Casting [General] > > Your people have mastered a way to cast arcane spells while wearing armor. > Regions: Alfheim, Glantri: Erewan, Karameikos: Callarii Elves, Thyatis: > Vyalia Elves, Wendar You forgot Vyalia Human "Foresters" -- they obviously have access to some feat that improves armored spellcasting ability somehow. > Other Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Arcane Spellcaster Level 1+ The prerequisite is a bit high -- even with a +2 Dex bonus, 15+ is above average for an Elf -- but "average" Mystaran Elves can master it easily. > Benefit: Any character who has mastered this feat reduces their arcane > failure penalty by 10 percent as long as they are proficient with the armor > and shields they are wearing. The benefit of this feat (10% reduction in arcane failure rate) is trivial -- one could do better than that just by making smart armor choices such as giving up a large shield in favor of a small shield or buying more expensive and less restrictive armor whenever one can afford it. In any case, I thought that the whole reason WotC made that check a percentage was to prevent the application of modifiers to it -- thus there are ways to eliminate it (such as the Still Spell feat) but not to reduce it. > This feat counts as a 'magical' bonus feat for Wizards. That is not much help to multi-class Fighter/Wizards of 1st (apprentice) level. > Note: Other elves may learn this feat as a non-regional feat at GM > discretion. I would think that there would be very few Elves who lack access to this feat (or to a replacement that really does make armored spell- casting practical). I would have to give this feat a definite "thumbs down". > Focused Attention [General] This one is very good! > Giant-Slayer [General] Ditto. > Glib Tongue [General] There may be some debate on this one, but I consider Bluff and Perform (Storytelling) to be a natural pairing for an Alertness-like feat. > Harmonious Existence [General] Looks good. > Horse Mastery [General] > > Your family trained you well when it comes to horses. > Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Ethengar, Thyatis: Kerendas > > Benefit: You gain +2 bonus to Appraise, Handle Animal and Ride checks. Your > regular mount's quality rating is also one better than normal as long as you > or someone else with this feat tends it. This may sound picky, but you need to specify that those skill bonuses apply only in regard to actions that involve horses. > > Independent Mind [General] > > Your people are extremely independent, and don't like authority. > Regions: Alphatia: Norwold, Heldannic Freeholds (not Knights), Hinterlands, > Soderfjord Jarldoms > > Benefit: You find it very easy to remain stubborn about your beliefs and > resist orders from other people. You gain +1 morale bonus to resist Charm, > Command, Domination, etc. spells, as well as Intimidate checks. You also > gain a +1 to AC whenever you fight alone (that is without coordination with > other combatants). I would include all Law spells among those that this feat provides a morale bonus against. > Industrious Outlook [General] > > Your people push themselves to be the best they can, and it shows. > Regions: Karameikos, Minrothad Guilds, Rockhome, Thyatis, Thyatis: Pearl > Islands, Ylaruam > > Benefit: Choose one skill when this feat is taken. This skill is considered > a class-skill for you as long as it isn't a restricted skill that you don't > already have. When you can choose a new feat (i.e. two to three levels > later) you can change the skill this feat applies to. I would reword that to match the way Skill Focus can be taken multiple times -- otherwise you are making a character who is not so much "industrious" as a "dilettante". Also, I would make Skill Focus for the same feat a pre-requisite for this skill, since otherwise there would be little reason to take the Skill Focus feat. > Inherent Confidence [General] > > Your people have a high opinion of yourselves, perhaps justified, and it > colors your interactions with other peoples. > Regions: Alfheim, Alphatia (nobility only), Alphatia: Isle of Dawn, Glantri: > Bergdhoven, Thyatis: Hattias > > Benefit: You gain a +1 to all Willpower saves, and +2 bonus for the purpose > of making or resisting Diplomacy and Intimidate checks the first time you > encounter someone. There is one sentence on p. 149 of the DMG that seriously under- cuts the value of this feat for PCs: "However, NPCs can never use a Charisma check to influence PC attitudes." I would read this to mean that a PC cannot be affected by use of the Diplomacy skill by an NPC -- instead, the NPC makes his case and then the player decides the PC's reaction. Intimidate is a bit less clear, but it would seem that it should be handled in a similar manner. I would thus drop all mention of Diplomacy from this feat, as this sort of confidence is as likely to be irritating as helpful to strangers from an "inferior" culture. Also, I would drop the save bonus in line with a similar weakening of the Thug bonuses. That would leave us with a bonus of +2 to attempts to make or resist Intimidate checks (with the latter of questionable benefit for PCs) -- and the Thug feat already seems to cover that area better. Perhaps a better approach might be to make this feat a variant of your later "War Mandate" feat whose effectiveness depends not on a charismatic leader but on the absence of known persons who have shown themselves as being "superior" to the user of the feat? > Inquisitive Drive [General] > > Your people are curious about the world at large, and often will go to > extreme lengths to discover new things. > Regions: Alphatia, Heldannic Freeholds, Thyatis > > Benefit: All Knowledge skills are class skills for you. This benefit is either pointless or two powerful, depending on whether or not you belong to a class that already has all knowledge skills as class skills. > Also, you gain a +2 bonus to resist Bluff, and Intimidate checks, > but only in the midst of an exploratory adventure. Maybe a better approach on this one would be that the character can use an appropriate Knowledge skill check in place of another roll for any non-physical check in which the opponent makes any relevant reference to the subject matter of that skill or has an interest in stopping the character from acquiring more knowledge related to that subject, even if the character does not know that such is the case. In the latter case, the PC should feel no qualms about suddenly realizing that the foe that the DM just told him he could use a particular Knowledge skill bonus against was trying to keep him from finding the object of his quest. > Inscrutability [General] > > Your people are viewed as mysterious, unpredictable or strange. Other > cultures have trouble understanding you. > Regions: Alphatia, Ierendi, Sind, Thyatis: Ochalea, Wendar, Yavldom > > Benefit: You have a +2 bonus on any check directly in opposition to Sense > Motive, unless facing someone who has this feat, then your bonus drops to > +1. You cannot use this feat versus people from your own culture who have > this feat. What about people from your own culture who lack this feat? In fact, that seems to be the major hole in this feat -- no member of a culture with access to it should lack it, but that is a rather high cost (with a relatively minor benefit) for being "strange". A better idea might be to reduce the value of this feat to zero by making it reflexive -- in other words, Sense Motive skills used by or against you by cultures alien to each other should both be penalized by the same amount. > Luck of Heroes [General] > > Your people survive when no one expects them to come through. > Regions: Five Shires, Heldannic Freeholds (not Knights), Karameikos > (Traladaran) I might go so far as to make this feat available to all Mystaran Halflings. > Mercantile Background [General] > > You come from a family that excels at a particular trade. > Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Aalban, Karameikos, Minrothad Guilds, Ylaruam > > Benefit: Choose a Craft or Profession skill. You get a +3 bonus to all > Craft or Profession checks for that skill and a +3 bonus to Appraise checks > involving items relevant to that skill. Official WotC correction: These bonuses were reduced to +2. > Military Genius [General] > > You come from a long line of generals or have unbelievable talent polished > by your culture's reverence for battlefield prowess. > Regions: Ethengar, Sind, Thyatis > > Benefit: You gain a +3 bonus to the Knowledge: Military Tactics skill and > given accurate intelligence your leadership of a small force allows them +1 > to Spot and Listen checks to avoid ambush, and +1 to Initiative checks made > during a surprise round. My gut feeling is the the skill bonus should be reduced to +2. Of course, this feat does not seem to address what it claims to. True, a military genius with accurate intelligence has an improved chance to avoid or react to ambushes -- but wouldn't any military commander with accurate intelligence and ordinary competence in military matters get a similar if not better circumstance bonus than the one proposed by your feat? Maybe instead a character with this feat would be able to guess how complete and/or reliable his military intelligence is and thus make reasonable deductions about the rest. For example, he might know that he has accounted for the locations of about 75% of the enemy forces (and thus that up to 25% of them are likely to be doing something he has no clue about) or that strategic inconsistencies in the reports of his spies suggest that at least one of his sources must be lying to him. Unlike an ordinary military commander, the military genius would have a good chance to guess what the enemy is really up to and thus plan accordingly. However, I am not exactly sure how to quantify this one yet. > Militia Experience [General] > > Your people commonly serve as members of your region's military force or > respond in times of extreme need. > Regions: Ethengar, Glantri: Aalban, Vestland > > Benefit: You gain +1 to Fortitude and Reflex saves, and have a bonus of +2 > to Wilderness Checks to resist the elements. In line with the official corrections cited elsewhere, maybe this feat should drop the Reflex save bonus? > Political Background [General] > > You come from a family that excels in public service, or wielding political > power. > Regions: Darokin, Glantri, Ierendi, Thyatis > > Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to all Diplomacy, Gather Information, Innuendo, > and Sense Motive checks dealing with the government of any republic, > democracy, limited monarchy, plutocracy or magocracy. This one is good -- while many skills are affected, only a select few people are affected. > Sea Legs [General] > > Your family has worked the sea for so long that you have grown up near it, > giving you knowledge and skill others work hard to possess. > Regions: Five Shires, Ierendi, Minrothad Guilds, Ostland, Thyatis: Pearl > Islands > > Benefit: +2 to Swim checks, and +2 to Craft, and Profession checks related > to fishing, sailing, shipbuilding, etc. For this one I would probably drop the Swim bonus (since many experienced sailors can't swim) but otherwise extend the bonus to include such skills as Balance and Concentration when they involve trying to perform activities on a boat or ship at sea. > Spell Flash [Metamagic] This one looks fine. > Survival Sense [General] Also very good. > Thug [General] > > Your people know how to get the jump on the competition and push other > people around. > Regions: Broken Lands, Ethengar, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), > Soderfjord Jarldoms, Thyatis: Hattias > > Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on Initiative Checks, a +2 bonus on Intimidate > Checks, and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves. Official WotC correction: The bonus to Reflex saves was dropped. We should also note that there is no particular connection between this feat and the "Thug" class/monster in the D&D RC. > Two-Weapon Fencing [General] > > Your people have made it a habit to fight with light weapons and with > extreme precision. > Regions: Darokin, Glantri: Belcadiz, Savage Coast (Bellayne, Renardy, etc.) > > Benefit: +1 AC to all non-flanking opponents when using a one-handed sword > and small or tiny backup weapon. If using the Total Defense action, you may > apply the bonus to even a Flanking character. Does this feat have any prerequisites? It seems to overpower the existing Dodge feat, and it is not clear how it interacts with the Two Weapon Fighting feat or the Expertise feat. > Unshakable Faith [General] > > Your people are rewarded for their faith every day, and concepts that fall > outside that faith do not seriously affect your people. > Regions: Atruaghin Clans, Heldannic Freeholds (Knights only), Yavldom, > Ylaruam > > Benefit: You gain a +2 morale bonus to Will saves versus fear effects, and a > +1 bonus versus diplomacy attempts to change a fundamental belief you hold. Should those bonuses be reversed? It would seem that an "unshakable faith" should be more resistant to attempts to change fundamental beliefs than to being frightened. Even at that, using the Diplomacy skill to change somebody's fundamental beliefs with a single check seems to go far beyond the power of that skill. I think the reactions to attempts to change fundamental beliefs can be handled through roleplay (and they are extremely unlikely to be successful unless they are carried out in a subtle manner), while the remaining save bonus vs. fear could be more than covered by the standard "Iron Will" feat (which would also provide protection against the far more insidious charm effects). Thus, this particular new feat strikes me as unnecessary. > War Mandate [General] This one looks fine. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 02:43:01 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: "Frog-folk" search results MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My initial search for "Frog-Folk" turned up nothing. I am now repeating the search for variants of that name.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 02:07:23 CST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Byron D. Molix" Subject: Re: Regional Feats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is yet another cut-and-paste reply, so please bear with me. Quoted comments are the words of David Knott. As to where credit is due, Arcane Flexibility is a conversion of the Special Benefit Glantrian Wizards get in the 2E box set. Armored Casting in various forms has been roaming around different boards and lists since 3E came out. Spell Flash is actually my variant of a feat I saw in a netbook recently. It's actually a conversion of a conversion of a proficency from the same GKoM box set. As to feat type on Arcane Flexiblity, I made a distinction in actually casting a spell differently being metamagic, but a bonus you could take all the time would be general. Could go either way on this feat, as for Sorcerers its obviously a difference in casting, but for a wizard it's an all-the-time preparation bonus. re: Armored Casting "The benefit of this feat (10% reduction in arcane failure rate) is trivial -- one could do better than that just by making smart armor choices such as giving up a large shield in favor of a small shield or buying more expensive and less restrictive armor whenever one can afford it. In any case, I thought that the whole reason WotC made that check a percentage was to prevent the application of modifiers to it -- thus there are ways to eliminate it (such as the Still Spell feat) but not to reduce it. " - David I didn't want to totally lose mystaran flavor on the casting in armor thing for elves, but then again I agreed with WoTC that it shouldn't be easy, especially in heavier armor. So I worded my feat to reflect that. I'm assuming that the average elf is wearing light armor and is not using a shield of any kind. Thus the most I'd expect them to deal with is 10%. I do have an additional feat that chains off this one to reduce it so that they can stomp around in full plate with a 10% failure chance. If its so trivial a bonus, maybe I'll eliminate the dex requirement and make it a true regional feat in my game. Yeah, I did forget the human foresters when I set the region. I'll change that right away. "> This feat counts as a 'magical' bonus feat for Wizards. That is not much help to multi-class Fighter/Wizards of 1st (apprentice) level." - David True, but this feat is the basis for an ability that my Forester class gets for free. Typical Fighter/Wizards are pretty rare in my version of the gameworld since these Arcane casting ranger types are so prevalent. So that note is just there so people who waited to get it can do so for free, if they want it then. Also, just as a note, nothing is of help to apprentice level characters. I'm pretty sure that they get one feat like any 1st level character, although a fighter would get a bonus feat as well, so whatever one they got is the one they would keep. Re: Industrious Outlook "> Benefit: Choose one skill when this feat is taken. This skill is considered > a class-skill for you as long as it isn't a restricted skill that you >don't > already have. When you can choose a new feat (i.e. two to three levels > later) you can change the skill this feat applies to. I would reword that to match the way Skill Focus can be taken multiple times -- otherwise you are making a character who is not so much "industrious" as a "dilettante". Also, I would make Skill Focus for the same feat a pre-requisite for this skill, since otherwise there would be little reason to take the Skill Focus feat." - David I could do that, but keep in mind these are not mutually exclusive. You get to declare a skill as a class skill, you still have to spend skill points for it. Skill Focus seems to imply another route, that of being gifted/talented with a skill rather than dedicated to it. Anyone who wants to be ungodly in one skill and has 2+ feats lying around at first level is still going to take Skill Focus as one of those feats. If it's a multiple buy feat, it should give some other bonus as well as making it a class-skill because as a one-time buy it's powerful enough to be worth forgoing Great Cleave for, but if each skill is a separate feat it's suddenly weaker than Skill Focus is, by rough comparison. Afterall, you still can't have more ranks in a skill than any other character of your level. Re: Inherent Confidence How about: +1 Morale Bonus to all non-combat checks. Failing any Willpower check removes the bonus for the rest of the day. It's slightly powerful, but they don't get it in combat, so smug superiority can only carry you so far. as regards Inquisitive Drive: "> Benefit: All Knowledge skills are class skills for you. This benefit is either pointless or two powerful, depending on whether or not you belong to a class that already has all knowledge skills as class skills." - David It is a weak bonus for bards, knowledge-domain clerics, and wizards, but its extremely nice for a fighter or rogue, and the bonus below was chosen to be weak too as a balance. You only really reap the rewards of the below bonus if you're out there exploring all the time. "> Also, you gain a +2 bonus to resist Bluff, and Intimidate checks, >but only in the midst of an exploratory adventure. Maybe a better approach on this one would be that the character can use an appropriate Knowledge skill check in place of another roll for any non-physical check in which the opponent makes any relevant reference to the subject matter of that skill or has an interest in stopping the character from acquiring more knowledge related to that subject, even if the character does not know that such is the case. In the latter case, the PC should feel no qualms about suddenly realizing that the foe that the DM just told him he could use a particular Knowledge skill bonus against was trying to keep him from finding the object of his quest." - David You've gone and confused me. If I remove the class-skill aspect, that character has to use a skill which probably won't be nearly as high to emulate a skill they should have? Or is this a synergy bonus? Either way, the circumstance seems confusing as well. Please, explain? re: Inscrutability "A better idea might be to reduce the value of this feat to zero by making it reflexive -- in other words, Sense Motive skills used by or against you by cultures alien to each other should both be penalized by the same amount." - David I'm all for finding the best way, but you've confused me again. It's the kind of feat intended to be 'cultural trait magnified', so I'm not worried about if someone doesn't have it. Not everybody in the Five Shires would have Luck of Heroes (it just seems like it since all Halflings get that +1 bonus to all their saves normally). Basically, maybe a flat bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy and Innuendo checks? That's more pro-active, and can still be explained away as the opposition having a hard time coming up with a rebutall because they didn't understand the statement to begin with. Boy oh boy am I in trouble if NPCs aren't supposed to actually use the nice non-combat skills like Sense Motive and Intimidate. I'm not touching Military Genius yet because the best way to explain it is as you said, not easy to make into game terms. re: Militia Experience Okay, two options. 1) +1 Fortitude and +1 Reflex. This represents a concrete 'survivability' factor, they served and lived. 2) +1 Fortitude, +1 Wilderness Lore, +1 Initiative when fighting in an organized force. This represents survivability and training. Looking at the original feat it seems as if only survivability was being addressed, so I thought about a combat bonus that wouldn't be unbalancing given everything else. Incidentally,I think they weakened Thug because it gave a bonus to a useful skill, a nice initiative bonus, and a bonus to a save. I'll be looking through my list again, but if I let Luck of Heroes stand, a combination of save bonuses up to +2 shouldn't be a problem. Re: Two-Weapon Fencing "> Benefit: +1 AC to all non-flanking opponents when using a one-handed sword > and small or tiny backup weapon. If using the Total Defense action, you may > apply the bonus to even a Flanking character. Does this feat have any prerequisites? It seems to overpower the existing Dodge feat, and it is not clear how it interacts with the Two Weapon Fighting feat or the Expertise feat." I'll be the first to admit it's powerful, and oops I forgot to mention it's versus melee attacks only. Now that I think about it, maybe restricting the practitioner to a half-move action during the round the benefit applies will even it out. It does overpower dodge, but 1) your dodge can't be disarmed, 2) Dodge applies to a flanking opponent. So while it's not even, (I tend to think Dodge is pretty weak for a main feat) it's not terrible either. As for Two-Weapon Fighting, this feat doesn't lower your penalties for hitting with both weapons at once in the slightest, and it would stack with the Expertise feat, since it is technically a parry where Expertise is a dodge bonus (which can be lost). I figure someone with this feat, Ambidexterity or Two-Weapon Fighting, and Dodge or Expertise to be extremely capable in the fencing department, but it takes them 3 feats, just like it takes someone else (the only benefit is it's easier to get, and the main drawback is it's only better than one of them) If you're just worried about too many feats that give AC bonuses, it could be an automatic miss chance, say 15-20%. Re: Unshakable Faith Okay, how about 'You are allowed a Will Save versus DC 10+Charisma Modifer or Spell Level versus any effort or effect that would alter one of your core beliefs. If this check succeeds, you don't completely succumb. If the effort or effect was a skill, or would have allowed you a save, you enjoy a +3 synergy bonus to resist.' And we are agreed about one check not allowing a fundamental belief to be altered. But numerous and repeated attempts, sly or not (brainwashing) would be resisted just as hard as the first. Yes it's more powerful than before, but it still doesn't directly alter the outcome, and it's still a limited circumstance. Byron Other comments? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 03:10:45 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: More on "Frog-folk" search MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit While my "Frog-folk" search proved vain, searches for "Frog" and "Blackmoor" seem to have yielded up all of the messages that anyone interested in the "Frog-Folk" thread might have wished to pursue. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:10:38 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Cynidicea Project?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What happened to the Cynidicea Team? Have they ever published the planned Gaz?? Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:30:53 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phillip Jones wrote: > > Until that point there was no advantage is Stefan emphasizing his > autonomity. When the Grand Duchy of Kamakeikos was first formed, many So obviously Stefan was seeking a political advantage rather than doing all this out of the goodness of his heart, like some claim. > nations still regarded it as part of the Thyatian Empire, and it was in > Stefans interests to keep up this charade in those fledgling years. Later, > it was becoming increasingly more accepted that Karameikos was an > independant nation to Thyatis (note that Aphatia didn't though, otherwise > they would have had an Alphatian embassy in Karameikos). It was at this Not everyone has to have an embassy in Karameikos. Alphatian might have just considered it a backwater wilderness of no significance. Even Glantri had an embassy in Karameikos for for purely formal reasons. > point that the hostilities between Glantri and Alphatia broke out. Stefan > didn't see the point in taking sides then, even when Thyatis started its > posturing on the side of Glantri. Only when Alphatia invaded Thyatis did > Stefan decide to openly declare his neutrality in the matter (thus enforcing > his stance that Karameikos was an independant country). This showed Aphatia > that Karameikos was an independant country with no ties to Thyatis, and also > was done at a time when Thyatis could do nothing in reprisal to Karameikos. > All in all, sounds like good political manoeuvring to me. Somebody must have > been giving him lessons! :) > Never said it wasn't good political maneuvering :) -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:38:35 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Cynidicea Project?? In-Reply-To: <3A0E7AAE.D898E934@tin.it> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > What happened to the Cynidicea Team? Have they ever published the > planned > Gaz?? The final pre-release draft (as far as I understood it) was completed this summer, so it should be "published" some time soon. - Mischa To try to satiate greed by smothering it with wealth, fame, power, and pleasure is, as the Hindus say, like trying to quench a fire by dousing it with butterfat - Huston Smith ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:06:33 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Regional Feats [Savage Coast addendum] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Eric Anondson wrote: > > >From my own opinion, I'll chime in for some "Regions" that could be added > from the Savage Coast and Orc's Head Peninsula. > > > Militia Experience [General] > > > > Regions: Ethengar, Glantri: Aalban, Vestland > > Torreon. Maybe Eusdria? Robrenn too (Armed Citizens) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 09:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mischa E Gelman Subject: Re: Blackmoor's other Peoples In-Reply-To: <28.d26eb2c.273e715a@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > In addition to the above, it would seem logical for the Tanagoro to be > descended from the Afridhi or very close relatives of those people -- > aren't they described as having very similar physical appearances? I don't recall seeing this anywhere. Does the "Afr" part of Afridhi encourage lots of folks to see them as black? DA4 offers us just one illustration, of Gul Hadda, who appears fairly light-skinned. Also, his description says he is heavily tattooed, which would be difficult for someone with very dark skin. The HW book lists the Tanagoro as existing during the times of Blackmoor as well, so it would be difficult for them to be descendants of the Afridhi, unless the transition occurred in the 1,000 years of Blackmoor's rise. Also, they seem to possess an entirely distinct culture - small clans living a herding-hunting existance, rather than a large, unified whole bent on military conquest. I just don't see the Tanagoro as being the same type of bloodthirsty knights-and-archers as the Afridhi as well - the armor and weaponry is different. Finally, the religions are rather distinct - Korotiku has very little relation to Zugzul. - Mischa If we want less government, we must have stronger families, for government steps in by necessity when families have failed. - Jimmy Carter, 8/3/76 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:12:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis >> Of course, the very fact that Stefan was good friends with Thincol should be enough to suggest that he was motivated primarily by self-interest, perversely enough. People tend to get along best with people who share similar attitudes, and since Thincol was clearly more pragmatic than honorable, it would have put a strain on their friendship if Stefan had been more honorable than pragmatic. << Which is really one of my points, in a odd way; I don't go around claiming Thincol is a paragon of virtue, as some people try to portray St. Stefan*. Stefan isn't some honorable hero, he's a pragmatic, selfish, and manipulative guy, who uses these parts of his character to build up "his" nation because ruling a strong nation is not only in the nation's interest but in his own. And yes, that sounds very much similar to Thincol, who I'd see as more of a "tragic hero" than a "noble hero" or "virtuous hero" which is how Stefan is frequently improperly portrayed. Stefan's so-called "principles" are clearly flexable and fungible, dependent more upon what's in it for him than any clear principle, an attitude we don't associate with a near-Paladin-like-figure, but one we actually tend to associate Lawful Evil types than Good ones. We can see this pretty clearly in not only what choices he makes, but how he handles them - he doesn't simply reluctantly sell-out Thyatis in order to preserve Karameikos, he swings all the way over to becoming close to the other side, the enemies of the civilization he supposedly betrayed in order to save some part of it (his subsiquent friendship with the Alphatians also shows the extent of his dislike of slave-holding societies; he doesn't have any such antipathy.) He's self-serving, and that's fine (indeed, IMO it makes him a more interesting character than this flat image portrayed by his proponents). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 11:25:55 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5c.32dd834.27401e93_boundary" --part1_5c.32dd834.27401e93_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/11/00 6:24:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI writes: > He did the right thing for his nation, but that in no way means he did a > good or honorable thing. Hitler has done some right things for Germany > too (not everything he did was right for Germany, mind you, but some > things were). > > Stefan = Hitler??!! Well, if this were true, the Torenescu, Radu, and other powerful Traladaran families wouldn't still be alive and operating in Karameikos after their little revolt to kill Stefan when he first arrived from Thyatis, would they? I'd say Hitler and Stefan are closer to opposites; Hitler engages in a mad war in defense of his vision while Stefan stays out of a mad war in defense of his. We agree that Stefan ultimately did the right thing for his nation in this situation. Which is what a competent leader *should* do. I think I've made a decent case for saying that it was a "good" thing, too. The "honorable" part is where the argument should lie; I'm just saying that blindly following the words of the Friendship/Invasion treaty isn't necessarily an honorable thing either, especially with all the (literally) world-shaking events going on at the time. <> He didn't force the displaced Alphatian wizards (nor the homeless Alfheim elves, for that matter) to settle in his land. He offered them that choice. The school was part of the Neutrality pact with Alphatia. How he managed to get that concession out of Alphatia I have no idea; Stefan wasn't in the driver's seat going into those meetings. Given the sorry state of magic in Karameikos at the time, it was certainly needed though. <> Agreed, to a point, but at the same time, the conflict between the magic-loving nations *did* start over the forbidden magic issue. Stefan was either fair (seeing that the issue of dispute between the two was legitimate and not making a rush to judgment against Alphatia) or pragmatic and responsible (What can I really do about this situation, other than to speed up the escalation from dispute to war?). I said, you said: <<<<<<<<<<< No, he left Thyatis because he wanted to mold a nation in self-image without inconvenient interference from higher authorities. >>>>>>>>>>> Heh. Good catch. I've tried not to let my personal feelings towards Thyatis get the better of me in this argument; here I slipped. First off...valid point. Indeed, this is THE reason Stefan opted out Thyatis. He can't even mold his duchy (let alone an entire nation) in Thyatis. Still, I feel I've shown that there was a morality issue in his leaving as well. Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have no qualms about using slaves to build up his new nation. Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have had no qualms about killing off all of the Traladaran families who revolted against his rule. <> The GAZ1 text on the subject [p. 13] reads: "In spite of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy and the signing of all documents to that effect, in spite of the fact that Thyatis sent an ambassador with Duke Stefan and recalled his tax collectors, the common impression in the region's early years was that it was just another duchy belonging to Thyatis." I'm gonna step back away from the "Mystara View" of this situation for a moment and examine it from a "Game Designer View." IMO, this case is an obvious attempt at a retro-fit; the designer had to fit the vaguely-described Grand Duchy from the old Expert Set and Isle of Dread module into a dynamic, thriving, realistic world. Making it a part of Thyatis would've made sense, IMO; instead, for whatever reason, it was decided that Karamekois would/should be independent. The result: the above passage. Unfortunately, this passage doesn't make much sense. Stefan's autonomy is publicly announced yet somehow kept a big secret too, presumably for "forestalling invasion by outside nations" [GAZ1, p. 13]. The very fact that the emperor signed off on Stefan's independence under amicable terms would probably be sufficient to make anyone think twice about invading Karameikos. That Stefan benefits, I do not challenge. That Thincol didn't react indicates he either sanctioned the ruse or didn't care. <<<<<< > It doesn't reflect particularly well upon him, but he decides to take > the PR hit because his nation's welfare is infinitely more important.> >>>>>>> Technically, no. Nor wicked, scheming, or under-handed, however. Keeping a country out of a war it shouldn't be in is generally a good thing, however. If you don't want to label it good, maybe we can say Stefan exercised sound judgment. <> I've never said that Stefan didn't feel he betrayed Thyatis; IMO, that's why he helps out Thyatis when the mummy plague hits after the war. If he were vindictive, he'd let them rot. It was mainly the common folk who bore the brunt of that plague though, just as the common folk of Karameikos would've paid the heaviest price if Stefan had blindly sided with Thyatis in the war. Stefan's actions here are consistent, but I'd label them more towards "caring" than "treacherous." But the author also says: "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's analysis of the situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare." Are these words less valid? I simply argue that Stefan had a choice to make and chose the welfare of his people over Thincol's "Alphatia Must Be Destroyed!" crusade. If he's autonomous, that's his choice to make. <> This assertion may be true, but it requires some assumptions. #1: That the invasion treaty also applies to Thyatian territories. This is semi-reasonable. Still, it's open for abuse. Without additional clauses, Stefan's liable to have to send troops/support if the headhunters from a neighboring island hop in their canoes and travel to one of the Pearl Islands. (A goofy example, admittedly, but valid). I'd say it's reasonable that there might be some "invasion stipulations" in the treaty regarding the Isle of Dawn, since both Thyatis and Alphatia have been fighting over that for quite some time. #2. That Thyatis is entitled to declare war on someone and then cry "Invasion!" when the war turns against them and Alphatia starts pressing forward into their territories. This assumption IS unreasonable. If someone declares war on you, your job becomes to put as much hurt on your opponent as possible to force him to end his threat. An accepted way of doing this is to put some pressure on his lands (i.e., invasion). --part1_5c.32dd834.27401e93_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/11/00 6:24:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
solmyr@KOLUMBUS.FI writes:


He did the right thing for his nation, but that in no way means he did a
good or honorable thing. Hitler has done some right things for Germany
too (not everything he did was right for Germany, mind you, but some
things were).


Stefan = Hitler??!!  Well, if this were true, the Torenescu, Radu, and other
powerful Traladaran families wouldn't still be alive and operating in
Karameikos after their little revolt to kill Stefan when he first arrived
from Thyatis, would they?  I'd say Hitler and Stefan are closer to opposites;
Hitler engages in a mad war in defense of his vision while Stefan stays out
of a mad war in defense of his.

We agree that Stefan ultimately did the right thing for his nation in this
situation.  Which is what a competent leader *should* do.  I think I've made
a decent case for saying that it was a "good" thing, too.  The "honorable"
part is where the argument should lie; I'm just saying that blindly following
the words of the Friendship/Invasion treaty isn't necessarily an honorable
thing either, especially with all the (literally) world-shaking events going
on at the time.

<<It was only his concern when he snatched some Alphatian wizards for
himself in the deal and had them build him a magic school.>>

He didn't force the displaced Alphatian wizards (nor the homeless Alfheim
elves, for that matter) to settle in his land.  He offered them that choice.  
The school was part of the Neutrality pact with Alphatia.  How he managed to
get that concession out of Alphatia I have no idea; Stefan wasn't in the
driver's seat going into those meetings.  Given the sorry state of magic in
Karameikos at the time, it was certainly needed though.

<<Perhaps, but it would be naive to think that once Alphatia defeated
Glantri they would just go away and leave it in peace.>>

Agreed, to a point, but at the same time, the conflict between the
magic-loving nations *did* start over the forbidden magic issue.  Stefan was
either fair (seeing that the issue of dispute between the two was legitimate
and not making a rush to judgment against Alphatia) or pragmatic and
responsible (What can I really do about this situation, other than to speed
up the escalation from dispute to war?).

I said, you said:
<<<<<<<<<<<
<he left Thyatis because he was sick of the back-stabbing politics).>
No, he left Thyatis because he wanted to mold a nation in self-image
without inconvenient interference from higher authorities.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Heh.  Good catch.  I've tried not to let my personal feelings towards Thyatis
get the better of me in this argument; here I slipped.  

First off...valid point.  Indeed, this is THE reason Stefan opted out
Thyatis.  He can't even mold his duchy (let alone an entire nation) in
Thyatis.  Still, I feel I've shown that there was a morality issue in his
leaving as well.  Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have no qualms about using
slaves to build up his new nation.  Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have had no
qualms about killing off all of the Traladaran families who revolted against
his rule.

<<And again, he never seemed to emphasize or mention his autonomy before then.
>>

The GAZ1 text on the subject [p. 13] reads:
"In spite of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy and the
signing of all documents to that effect, in spite of the fact that Thyatis
sent an ambassador with Duke Stefan and recalled his tax collectors, the
common impression in the region's early years was that it was just another
duchy belonging to Thyatis."

I'm gonna step back away from the "Mystara View" of this situation for a
moment and examine it from a "Game Designer View."  IMO, this case is an
obvious attempt at a retro-fit; the designer had to fit the vaguely-described
Grand Duchy from the old Expert Set and Isle of Dread module into a dynamic,
thriving, realistic world.  Making it a part of Thyatis would've made sense,
IMO; instead, for whatever reason, it was decided that Karamekois
would/should be independent.  The result: the above passage.

Unfortunately, this passage doesn't make much sense.  Stefan's autonomy is
publicly announced yet somehow kept a big secret too, presumably for
"forestalling invasion by outside nations" [GAZ1, p. 13].  The very fact that
the emperor signed off on Stefan's independence under amicable terms would
probably be sufficient to make anyone think twice about invading Karameikos.

That Stefan benefits, I do not challenge.  That Thincol didn't react
indicates he either sanctioned the ruse or didn't care.

<<<<<<
> It doesn't reflect particularly well upon him, but he decides to take
> the PR hit because his nation's welfare is infinitely more important.>

<Again, this in no way indicates his alignment to be good.>
>>>>>>>
Technically, no.  Nor wicked, scheming, or under-handed, however.  Keeping a
country out of a war it shouldn't be in is generally a good thing, however.  
If you don't want to label it good, maybe we can say Stefan exercised sound
judgment.

<<What the author says generally reflects the truth behind the events,
since this is not an in-character account, but a description of what
Stefan *REALLY* does and thinks. One of those things is "rationalizing
his betrayal" - that is something that I usually see Lawful Evil
characters do, find nice-sounding excuses for their treacherous acts.>>

I've never said that Stefan didn't feel he betrayed Thyatis; IMO, that's why
he helps out Thyatis when the mummy plague hits after the war.  If he were
vindictive, he'd let them rot.  It was mainly the common folk who bore the
brunt of that plague though, just as the common folk of Karameikos would've
paid the heaviest price if Stefan had blindly sided with Thyatis in the war.  
Stefan's actions here are consistent, but I'd label them more towards
"caring" than "treacherous."

But the author also says: "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's
analysis of the situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare."  
Are these words less valid?  I simply argue that Stefan had a choice to make
and chose the welfare of his people over Thincol's "Alphatia Must Be
Destroyed!" crusade.  If he's autonomous, that's his choice to make.

<<Actually, Alphatia started the invasion in Fall of 1005, on the Isle of
Dawn. Stefan makes his deal in Spring of 1006, six months after Alphatia
invaded Thyatian lands.>>
This assertion may be true, but it requires some assumptions.
#1: That the invasion treaty also applies to Thyatian territories.  This is
semi-reasonable.  Still, it's open for abuse.  Without additional clauses,
Stefan's liable to have to send troops/support if the headhunters from a
neighboring island hop in their canoes and travel to one of the Pearl
Islands.  (A goofy example, admittedly, but valid).  I'd say it's reasonable
that there might be some "invasion stipulations" in the treaty regarding the
Isle of Dawn, since both Thyatis and Alphatia have been fighting over that
for quite some time.
#2. That Thyatis is entitled to declare war on someone and then cry
"Invasion!" when the war turns against them and Alphatia starts pressing
forward into their territories.  This assumption IS unreasonable.  If someone
declares war on you, your job becomes to put as much hurt on your opponent as
possible to force him to end his threat.  An accepted  way of doing this is
to put some pressure on his lands (i.e., invasion).




--part1_5c.32dd834.27401e93_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 08:35:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: "Frog-folk" search results In-Reply-To: <9c.8d36764.273fa405@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:43 AM 11/12/00 EST, you wrote: >My initial search for "Frog-Folk" turned up nothing. I am now repeating >the search for variants of that name.... Did you try Frogfolk (without the "-")? I'll go ahead and repost if it still hasn't come up... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:08:37 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_5c.32dd840.27402895_boundary" --part1_5c.32dd840.27402895_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/00 1:28:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: > Actually the timing of the Karameikos treaty with Alphatia was critical. > At the time of that treaty, the Alphatians were kicking Thyatian butt > on the Isle of Dawn, had conquered West Portage, and were steadily > advancing towards complete control of the island (which they would > achieve two years after the treaty). The loss of nerve on the part of > the supposedly loyal allies (Karameikos) and subjects (Ochalea, > the Pearl Islands, and ) could only have hastened that conquest. > Point taken. But why would Thyatis assume Stefan's "loyalty" in a war started by Thincol where Karameikos had nothing to gain and everything to lose? Stefan had proven he had different values (opting out of Thyatis in the first place, abolishing slavery in his nation)...and he *was* autonomous. You'd have thought that Thincol would have checked with his friend on this little matter first. I can find no canon reference to Stefan and Thincol meeting at all during the war. To say that they probably did seems semi-reasonable to me. Yet Thincol is still shocked at Stefan's "betrayal." Maybe Stefan IS the conniver some folks portray him as; or maybe Stefan presented his concerns about going to war and Thincol merely tuned them out. The DotI DM's Book [page 23] labels Thincol as "a hard, ruthless, uncompromising man" to begin with, and during the war years he's listening to the "wisdom" of Vanya in mortal form, whose goal is to get Thyatis into the fray on Glantri's side. I'd say my reading of this situation is viable. Either way, I still argue that joining/staying out of the war was Stefan's choice to make, not Thincol's. --part1_5c.32dd840.27402895_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/00 1:28:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM
writes:


Actually the timing of the Karameikos treaty with Alphatia was critical.
At the time of that treaty, the Alphatians were kicking Thyatian butt
on the Isle of Dawn, had conquered West Portage, and were steadily
advancing towards complete control of the island (which they would
achieve two years after the treaty).  The loss of nerve on the part of
the supposedly loyal allies (Karameikos) and subjects (Ochalea,
the Pearl Islands, and ) could only have hastened that conquest.


Point taken.  But why would Thyatis assume Stefan's "loyalty" in a war
started by Thincol where Karameikos had nothing to gain and everything to
lose?  Stefan had proven he had different values (opting out of Thyatis in
the first place, abolishing slavery in his nation)...and he *was* autonomous.
 You'd have thought that Thincol would have checked with his friend on this
little matter first.  

I can find no canon reference to Stefan and Thincol meeting at all during the
war.  To say that they probably did seems semi-reasonable to me.  Yet Thincol
is still shocked at Stefan's "betrayal."  Maybe Stefan IS the conniver some
folks portray him as; or maybe Stefan presented his concerns about going to
war and Thincol merely tuned them out.  The DotI DM's Book [page 23] labels
Thincol as "a hard, ruthless, uncompromising man" to begin with, and during
the war years he's listening to the "wisdom" of Vanya in mortal form, whose
goal is to get Thyatis into the fray on Glantri's side.  I'd say my reading
of this situation is viable.  Either way, I still argue that joining/staying
out of the war was Stefan's choice to make, not Thincol's.

--part1_5c.32dd840.27402895_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:35:13 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_a.4cad447.27402ed1_boundary" --part1_a.4cad447.27402ed1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/00 1:28:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM writes: > What preserved their friendship for as long as it > lasted was that their interests pretty much coincided until > nearly everyone became convinced that the Alphatians were > about to overrun the entire Known World and beat the crap > out of anyone friendly to Thyatis. > > This is what I thought myself...at first. But I was wrong...and you are too :) I've been trying for the most part to argue Stefan's good points without comparing him against Thincol. The men's friendship was over or badly strained long before the war. Description of Stefania Torion [DotI DM's Book, p. 25]: "She was named after Thincol's friend Stefan Karameikos, back when he *was* [TSR's emphasis, not mine] Thincol's friend (before he abandoned Thyatian ways and ran off to rule his own nation)." DotI is set in AC 1000. When did the friendship end? Thincol's description in DotI [p. 23] gives us a clue: "His friendships are *all* [my emphasis] expedient: If a friend becomes of no further use to him, or angers him, this friend is abandoned or betrayed at the earliest opportunity." Using this definition of "friend," Stefan's use to the emperor would have ended about the time the emperor sold off the last of Machetos' assets to fund his war machine. In fairness, I recall seeing a quote somewhere that said Stefan used much of his realm's early returns to build up the military out of fear that Thyatis would again covet the place. So he wasn't truly friends with Thincol either at this time. Either way, this kind of shows that the whole "friendship" part of the Machetos deal went out the window long before the Great War. --part1_a.4cad447.27402ed1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/12/00 1:28:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, Kaviyd@AOL.COM
writes:


What preserved their friendship for as long as it
lasted was that their interests pretty much coincided until
nearly everyone became convinced that the Alphatians were
about to overrun the entire Known World and beat the crap
out of anyone friendly to Thyatis.



This is what I thought myself...at first.  But I was wrong...and you are too  
:)

I've been trying for the most part to argue Stefan's good points without
comparing him against Thincol.  The men's friendship was over or badly
strained long before the war.

Description of Stefania Torion [DotI DM's Book, p. 25]: "She was named after
Thincol's friend Stefan Karameikos, back when he *was* [TSR's emphasis, not
mine] Thincol's friend (before he abandoned Thyatian ways and ran off to rule
his own nation)."  DotI is set in AC 1000.

When did the friendship end?  Thincol's description in DotI [p. 23] gives us
a clue:

"His friendships are *all* [my emphasis] expedient: If a friend becomes of no
further use to him, or angers him, this friend is abandoned or betrayed at
the earliest opportunity."

Using this definition of "friend," Stefan's use to the emperor would have
ended about the time the emperor sold off the last of Machetos' assets to
fund his war machine.

In fairness, I recall seeing a quote somewhere that said Stefan used much of
his realm's early returns to build up the military out of fear that Thyatis
would again covet the place.  So he wasn't truly friends with Thincol either
at this time.

Either way, this kind of shows that the whole "friendship" part of the
Machetos deal went out the window long before the Great War.

--part1_a.4cad447.27402ed1_boundary-- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:02:14 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis >> I've been trying for the most part to argue Stefan's good points without comparing him against Thincol. The men's friendship was over or badly strained long before the war. << So you claim now, when it suits your propaganda interests in retrospect. The truth, though, again, is in WotI, which refers to Thincol as Stefan's old friend, whom he *then* turns his back on and betrays, "selling out his longtime allies." Now, I know how keen you are, as an apologist for Stefan's behavior, attempting to portray him as a pure man, for you to rewrite and revise things in his favor in this way, but the facts speak for themselves. He sold out his longtime allies in exchange for a payoff (a magic school), showing that if anyone's a master of backstabbing politics, well, it's Stefan. If their friendship had ended, Thincol would not have played along with Stefan's deceptions. Now, you've shown that fairly early on, *Stefan* stopped being a true friend to Thincol, but just kept using him and Thyatis so long as it served his interests. Again, we can see who is a master of backstabbing politics, and I notice that you have no problem with friendship being a "one way street" - so long as it serves *your* manipualtive bastard. 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:57:52 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: pbem pointers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi guys, I need some help. a player of mine has moved to another town and has asked me to continue the campaign by email with him. he is currently questing for immortallity so running this as a solo campiagn is no problem running it over the email isa completely new scene for me so any pointers as to how to go about this would be much apreciated. i will be away for the next couple of weeks, so i will read any replies when i get back. thanks in advance. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 20:32:53 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Stefan = Hitler??!! Well, if this were true, the Torenescu, Radu, and other >powerful Traladaran families wouldn't still be alive and operating in >Karameikos after their little revolt to kill Stefan when he first arrived >from Thyatis, would they? I'd say Hitler and Stefan are closer to opposites; >Hitler engages in a mad war in defense of his vision while Stefan stays out >of a mad war in defense of his. I never claimed Stefan to be equal to Hitler, please don't put words in my mouth. I only pointed out that doing the right thing for one's country isn't indicative of Good alignment. >We agree that Stefan ultimately did the right thing for his nation in this >situation. Which is what a competent leader *should* do. I think I've made >a decent case for saying that it was a "good" thing, too. The "honorable" >part is where the argument should lie; I'm just saying that blindly following >the words of the Friendship/Invasion treaty isn't necessarily an honorable >thing either, especially with all the (literally) world-shaking events going >on at the time. I would argue against you here. I would say that following one's commitments to friendship, regardless of odds, would indeed be the honorable thing to do, and abandoning them to save oneself would not be honorable (even if it's "the right thing" or "the intelligent thing" to do). >He didn't force the displaced Alphatian wizards (nor the homeless Alfheim >elves, for that matter) to settle in his land. He offered them that choice. >The school was part of the Neutrality pact with Alphatia. How he managed to >get that concession out of Alphatia I have no idea; Stefan wasn't in the >driver's seat going into those meetings. Given the sorry state of magic in >Karameikos at the time, it was certainly needed though. Yep; and while he "wasn't concerned with magic" during the initial dispute between Glantri and Alphatia, he certainly changed his views when some of that magic had a chance of dripping to Karameikos. <> >Agreed, to a point, but at the same time, the conflict between the >magic-loving nations *did* start over the forbidden magic issue. Stefan was >either fair (seeing that the issue of dispute between the two was legitimate >and not making a rush to judgment against Alphatia) or pragmatic and >responsible (What can I really do about this situation, other than to speed >up the escalation from dispute to war?). Both of those views are somewhat indicative of Lawful alignment, but not Good. >First off...valid point. Indeed, this is THE reason Stefan opted out >Thyatis. He can't even mold his duchy (let alone an entire nation) in >Thyatis. Still, I feel I've shown that there was a morality issue in his >leaving as well. Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have no qualms about using >slaves to build up his new nation. Were he a true Thyatian, he'd have had no >qualms about killing off all of the Traladaran families who revolted against >his rule. Actually, he had quite a few of their prominent members killed (the only one I can remember offhand is the husband of Magda Marilenev, but I'm sure there were others). This effectively crippled all the prominent Traladaran families so that they could provide no further opposition to his plans. And he certainly had no problem with anyone else trading slaves (including in his own Duchy, ie von Hendriks). Yea, I expect to hear about his "see no evil" personality again, now. >The GAZ1 text on the subject [p. 13] reads: >"In spite of the public announcement of the Grand Duchy's autonomy and the >signing of all documents to that effect, in spite of the fact that Thyatis >sent an ambassador with Duke Stefan and recalled his tax collectors, the >common impression in the region's early years was that it was just another >duchy belonging to Thyatis." > >I'm gonna step back away from the "Mystara View" of this situation for a >moment and examine it from a "Game Designer View." IMO, this case is an >obvious attempt at a retro-fit; the designer had to fit the vaguely-described >Grand Duchy from the old Expert Set and Isle of Dread module into a dynamic, >thriving, realistic world. Making it a part of Thyatis would've made sense, >IMO; instead, for whatever reason, it was decided that Karamekois >would/should be independent. The result: the above passage. > >Unfortunately, this passage doesn't make much sense. Stefan's autonomy is >publicly announced yet somehow kept a big secret too, presumably for >"forestalling invasion by outside nations" [GAZ1, p. 13]. The very fact that >the emperor signed off on Stefan's independence under amicable terms would >probably be sufficient to make anyone think twice about invading Karameikos. > Autonomy isn't the same as independence. An autonomous region is more or less self-ruled, but is still a part of a greater state (Thyatis has this sort of arrangement with e.g. Westrourke). And again, trying to question the validity of one part of canon while using other parts to prove your point isn't going to work. As far as I'm concerned the entirety of non-IC canon writings is valid. >I've never said that Stefan didn't feel he betrayed Thyatis; IMO, that's why >he helps out Thyatis when the mummy plague hits after the war. If he were >vindictive, he'd let them rot. It was mainly the common folk who bore the >brunt of that plague though, just as the common folk of Karameikos would've >paid the heaviest price if Stefan had blindly sided with Thyatis in the war. >Stefan's actions here are consistent, but I'd label them more towards >"caring" than "treacherous." Well, yes, but doing something good doesn't excuse simultaneously doing something evil (although people often try to use it as an excuse, which is again anything but Good). I could argue that the Master of Hule was helping the common folk of Sind and Darokin by freeing them from their oppressive rulers (despotic rajas or greedy merchants, as the case may be). >But the author also says: "This is a mortal event...it reflects Duke Stefan's >analysis of the situation and his efforts to ensure his country's welfare." >Are these words less valid? I simply argue that Stefan had a choice to make >and chose the welfare of his people over Thincol's "Alphatia Must Be >Destroyed!" crusade. If he's autonomous, that's his choice to make. Yep. He chose welfare at the price of friendship and honor. >#2. That Thyatis is entitled to declare war on someone and then cry >"Invasion!" when the war turns against them and Alphatia starts pressing >forward into their territories. This assumption IS unreasonable. If someone >declares war on you, your job becomes to put as much hurt on your opponent as >possible to force him to end his threat. An accepted way of doing this is >to put some pressure on his lands (i.e., invasion). This assumption is only unreasonable in the modern, 20th-century, democratic mindset. In a medieval world, it is not unreasonable at all. In fact, if that treaty was really true to a medieval style, I'd go as far as to claim that Stefan would be required to help Thyatis *invade* Alphatia, as a dutiful Imperial vassal. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:40:10 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Crater-effects on Darokin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've been considering something IMC when I came across something odd. Is it just me or does Fort Lakeside on the northside of Lake Amsorak go missing after the Meteor hits the Silver Sierras in 1006 AC ?? How about Bronsdale ?? I've found no canon references either way, but I note that Fort Lakeside is on the "Corran Keep and Vicinity" mini-map of WOTI (1004 AC), while it is missing on the larger map which shows the post-WOTI Known World of 1010+ AC (though they're both the same scale)... Bronsdale is also missing on the larger 1010 map. One might argue that Fort Lakeside is missing because the map is larger scaled (1 hex = 24 miles) than the Darokin map of the Daro gaz (1 hex = 8 miles), but Fort Lakeside is also missing from the Glantri map from G:KoM, which is the same scale (1 hex = 8 miles) and which certainly covers the area where Fort Lakeside should be... What about Bronsdale? Does anybody remember later references to these places, either in the PWAs or other canon material, in the MAs, or if this has been discussed here or by the MA teams? This might be important IMC, and though I'll go with my own ideas, I'd like to hear what people have to say on the matter before I decide what to do... Thanks in advance. - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:56:01 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Gaucho Prestige class attempt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Anondson > > I was fooling around with some Savage Coast prestige class conversions and > just finished up with the Inheritor and the Gaucho. > > For all to see and I hope offer helpful criticisms, here is my attempt at > the Gaucho. > > Gaucho > Lvl Attack Fort Ref Will Special > 1 +1 +2 +2 +0 Horse control, Bonus Feat > 2 +2 +3 +3 +0 Canny aim +1d10 > 3 +3 +3 +3 +1 Bonus Feat, Mounted Marksmanship +1d10 > 4 +4 +4 +4 +1 Rapid Reload > 5 +5 +4 +4 +1 Bonus Feat > 6 +6 +5 +5 +2 Canny aim +2d10 > 7 +7 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat > 8 +8 +6 +6 +2 Mounted Marksmanship +2d10 > 9 +9 +6 +6 +3 Bonus Feat > 10 +10 +7 +7 +3 Canny aim +3d10 First comment: Mounted Marksmanship, Canny Aim, and Uncanny Aim all seem to be different terms for the exact same ability. It is thus unclear why both appear in the chart above at different levels. > Requirements > > Homeland: Must be a resident of the Savage Baronies > > Ride: 8 ranks One note: You left the Ride skill off the list of class skills -- it should be added. > Class Features > > Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gauchos are proficient with the following > weapons: Bola, club, dagger, dart, firearms(pistol), hand axe, javelin, > light lance, light pick, light flail, light mace, sabre, sap, throwing axe, > and whip. Of all these weapons, whip is the only one that cannot be assumed to have been picked up from previous class(es), so it should be the sole weapon proficiency gained by this class. The remaining weapons would then simply be weapons that Gauchos traditionally use -- and so you might want to consider pruning that list down a bit. Then you could limit such feats as Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse as bonus Gaucho feats to those weapons. > The gaucho will only wear padded, leather or studded leather. In other words, he is proficient with light armor. However, since he is likely to be proficient with better armor from earlier class(es), the only reason for a Gaucho not to wear such armor is that it prevents him from using his pistol damage bonus (whatever it is that you finally decide to call it). > Gauchos are not proficient in shield. Unless they were already proficient with it from previous class(es), as with armor above. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:36:56 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 23:15 11/11/00 -0600, Eric Anondson wrote: >I was fooling around with some Savage Coast prestige class conversions and >just finished up with the Inheritor and the Gaucho. I like this p. class, but the only thing I'd note is that this is a better class than the fighter -- same progression, choice of feat every other level PLUS additional class abilities. For balance, I'd drop the combat progression to the same rate as a cleric's. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:48:10 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: <52.33b640f.274041c1@aol.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:56 11/12/00 EST, David Knott wrote: >> Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gauchos are proficient with the following >> weapons: Bola, club, dagger, dart, firearms(pistol), hand axe, javelin, >> light lance, light pick, light flail, light mace, sabre, sap, throwing axe, >> and whip. > >Of all these weapons, whip is the only one that cannot be assumed >to have been picked up from previous class(es), so it should be the >sole weapon proficiency gained by this class. The remaining weapons >would then simply be weapons that Gauchos traditionally use -- and >so you might want to consider pruning that list down a bit. Then >you could limit such feats as Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse >as bonus Gaucho feats to those weapons. Prestige class weapon proficiencies don't work that way, though: You have to build assuming that some crazy player will take the most difficult path to the class. Someone might conceivably build a 19th level Commoner and then change to Gaucho. I think the weapon list should be left as-is. >> The gaucho will only wear padded, leather or studded leather. > >In other words, he is proficient with light armor. However, since he >is likely to be proficient with better armor from earlier class(es), >the only reason for a Gaucho not to wear such armor is that it >prevents him from using his pistol damage bonus (whatever it is >that you finally decide to call it). I agree. >> Gauchos are not proficient in shield. > >Unless they were already proficient with it from previous class(es), >as with armor above. This is how other prestige classes are done. Check the Blackguard in the DMG. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:35:17 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jordan Murrin Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Jennifer Guerra wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 02, 2000 at 07:27:50PM +0100, > Caroletti wrote: > > >> Ok, guys. Now explain me why we are 261 and I > have collected just 77 > >> votes > >> (plus 3 people who told me they are not going to > vote). I'd love to vote, but I don't know enough about each nation. (Except that I'm suspicious of all things Alphatian!) :} (A lurker) ===== ...und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 16:54:05 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: <20001112211706.357308239@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>> Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Gauchos are proficient with the following >>> weapons: Bola, club, dagger, dart, firearms(pistol), hand axe, javelin, >>> light lance, light pick, light flail, light mace, sabre, sap, throwing >>> axe, and whip. David: >> Of all these weapons, whip is the only one that cannot be assumed >> to have been picked up from previous class(es), so it should be the >> sole weapon proficiency gained by this class. The remaining weapons >> would then simply be weapons that Gauchos traditionally use -- and >> so you might want to consider pruning that list down a bit. Then >> you could limit such feats as Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse >> as bonus Gaucho feats to those weapons. Beau: > Prestige class weapon proficiencies don't work that way, though: You have > to build assuming that some crazy player will take the most difficult path > to the class. Someone might conceivably build a 19th level Commoner and > then change to Gaucho. I think the weapon list should be left as-is. I took the model of the Assassin Prestige Class as the model to list out all weapons, where the Assassin P. Class lists out each weapon that the p. class is proficient in. I could possibly change the weapon list to all Simple Weapons plus list out each weapon that isn't a simple weapons. But because Simple weapons include crossbows, slings, spears and some others that don't fit the Gaucho archetype I felt a complete listing was best. >>> The gaucho will only wear padded, leather or studded leather. David: >> In other words, he is proficient with light armor. However, since he >> is likely to be proficient with better armor from earlier class(es), >> the only reason for a Gaucho not to wear such armor is that it >> prevents him from using his pistol damage bonus (whatever it is >> that you finally decide to call it). Beau: > I agree. I considered just saying "proficient in light armor" but that would also include the chain shirt. Because I thought some might feel that the chain shirt didn't fit the Gaucho archetype I cut it from the list and named each type of armor. I'd be happy to just call give the Gaucho "light armor" because is cuts out unneeded complexity. >>> Gauchos are not proficient in shield. David: >> Unless they were already proficient with it from previous class(es), >> as with armor above. Beau: > This is how other prestige classes are done. Check the Blackguard in the DMG. I added this bit because the Gaucho character kit says they won't use shields. This was my way of paying homage to that limitation. How else in a 3e way could this be implemented? Should it? Beau: > I like this p. class, but the only thing I'd note is that this is a better > class than the fighter -- same progression, choice of feat every other level > PLUS additional class abilities. For balance, I'd drop the combat progression > to the same rate as a cleric's. I did do some comparisons with the fighter. You are right about some features of the Gaucho being better (better Reflex saves and some class abilities, plus the faster skill points increment) but because the fighter gains weapon specialization a greater list of feats to choose for his bonus feats, and the ability to use all armor and all simple and martial weapons I thought it evened out. I think you have a good point though. Andrew: > Looks good so far, the only suggestion I can think of offhand is that they > should get some sort of Improved Trip ability (with the lasso or whip), or > Improved Grab (with the whip or lasso). Good idea! Maybe a Bonus Feat hear or there could be replaced from the level advancement with one of those ideas. David: > First comment: Mounted Marksmanship, Canny Aim, and Uncanny Aim all seem to > be different terms for the exact same ability. It is thus unclear why both > appear in the chart above at different levels. I see what you mean. You spotted one of my "typos" and something I was worried wasn't clear. There was a stated difference between the Mounted Marksmanship and Canny Aim, but it wasn't too clear. Canny Aim was only effective while unmounted, while Mounted Marksmanship was the Canny Aim ability that could be used while on horseback. The "Uncanny Aim" was just the type I didn't fix before I hit the send button. >> Requirements >> Ride: 8 ranks > One note: You left the Ride skill off the list of class skills -- it should > be added. All I can say is oops. =) Thanks everyone for the feedback! Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:27:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Thoughts on a dragon slayer prestige class In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001110121228.007fd460@pop.wans.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/10/00 2:12 PM, jsmill@WANS.NET wrote: > Wasn't me. What's your computer been smoking, Jenn? :) Hey, now, who said it was my _computer_ smoking something? ;-)) Jenn -- Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:27:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: She's baaack! In-Reply-To: <20001111003621.25693.cpmta@c000.muc.cp.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/10/00 6:36 PM, l_giuliani@ALTAVISTA.IT wrote: > Hello Valerya, I'm in the list by a short time... > I've seen your site and I think it's very interesting and well made. Thanks! I really do appreciate the kind compliments. :-) Jenn -- Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of governement. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:27:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Campaign Cartographer for Mac? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi everyone, Now that I'm on a "real" computer (yay!), I wanted to make up some maps for our home-grown world. problem is, all the software I've seen seem to be for Windows. Is anyone aware of some that is compatible with Mac (Power PC)? Thanks in advance, Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:33:56 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Sloppy attempt at a Inheritor Prestige Class In-Reply-To: <20001112225729.0A2DA829F@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Inheritor is a real odd-ball. I wasn't sure how a prestige class (by following recommended guidelines) could be implemented suitably. Such as the character kit requirement that ONLY 1st-level characters will be accepted. Or that Inheritors NEED their ability scores to be a certain level. Both of these two requirements are supposedly "bad requirements" to use for a prestige class but vital to the workings of the Inheritors. Well here is my first attempt, it may be ugly! So forgive me as I'm getting use= d to this prestige class thing. Inheritor Hit Die: As original class Lvl Attack Fort Ref Will Special 1 As class As class As class As class -Create Crimson Essence +1 level +1 level +1 level +1 level -Additional Legacy -The Code of the Orders -Access to cinnabryl, red steel, crimson essence and smokepowder 2 As class As class As class As class -Bonus class-based skills +2 levels +2 levels +2 levels +2 levels 3 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +3 levels +3 levels +3 levels +3 levels 4 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +4 levels +4 levels +4 levels +4 levels 5 As class As class As class As class +5 levels +5 levels +5 levels +5 levels 6 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +6 levels +6 levels +6 levels +6 levels 7 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +7 levels +7 levels +7 levels +7 levels 8 As class As class As class As class +8 levels +8 levels +8 levels +8 levels 9 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +9 levels +9 levels +9 levels +9 levels 10 As class As class As class As class Additional Legacy +10 levels +10 levels +10 levels +10 levels Requirements Alignment: Lawful characters join the Order of the Ruby, neutral characters join the Order of Crimson, and chaotic characters join the Order of the Flame. Class: Bard, Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard. Other classes have obligations, talents or goals which are at odds with the Orders. An Inheritor that multi-classes to class un-approved by Inheritors can be name= d a =B3renegade=B2. See Code of the Orders class ability below for information o= n renegade Inheritors. Feats: Never learn any firearm. Special: Must purchase a Red Steel weapon at 1st level Inheritor Special: Must be taken before original class advances beyond 1st level Special: Must pass initiation test of each six abilities, strength, dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, constitution, and charisma. To pass each test the ability must of a 9 rating or higher. This is a test to determine if the prospective Inheritor can survive the detrimental effects of Legacies, which can reduce ability scores by 2d4 points. If an ability score reaches 0 when a Legacy manifests, the character dies. Inheritors don=B9t want their members to die just because they receive their legacies. Special: Can never advance higher in Inheritor level than the original class, and the original class can never be greater than two levels above th= e Inheritor level. Although both class levels may be equal. Special: Dependant upon the Inheritor=B9s original class, the member must accept an assigned role in their Order. Fighters are guardians and soldiers, and are charged with creating red steel weapons and monitoring re= d steel trade. =20 Rogues are given duties of acquisitions and covert missions, such a= s =B3collecting=B2 cinnabryl and red steel from its possesors without their knowledge. Rogues also have the duty of crafting the cinnabryl talismans used to make crimson essence. Bards use their talents for gaining information of interest to their orders. Bards also are responsible for circulating information such as Conclave news to members. It is also the bard who initiates new members and then reports the initiation to one of th= e order=B9s clerics. Rogues and bards are together responsible for distributin= g potions and talismans to members of their orders. Wizards study the Legacies themselves and are the Inheritors most likely to recognize the earliest stages of manifestation. Wizards make the potion base for crimson essence. Clerics are the record keepers and historians of the orders. They keep track of members, associate members, and their Legacies; the number of available talismans, cinnabryl amulets, and crimson essence potions; and the rules and strictures of the orders. Clerics make up the bureaucracy of each order, each serving in a semi-official capacity. Class Skills Skill Points at Each Level: As original class. Alchemy (Int) Craft (Armorer) (Int) Note: Class skill for fighters only. Craft (Glassblowing) (Int) Craft (Redsmithing) (Int) Craft (Metalworking) (Int) Disguise (Cha) Gather Information (Cha) Knowledge (history) (Int) Knowledge (legacy) (Int) Knowledge (local) (Int) Speak Language (None) Class Features Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Inheritors keep the same profciencies thier original class used. Create Crimson Essence: Inheritors learn how to create the magical substanc= e crimson essence. The creation of crimson essence requires a process of keeping a vial (the cinnabryl talisman) of the specially prepared potion base next to thei= r skin. After two months the potion base changes to crimson essence. If the talisman is removed from the skin for more than 5 minutes the magic fades and the potion must be process must begin again. It is possible for Inheritors to create more crimson essence than they will need. These potions are sold to others of their order who desire them. If a non-Inheritor wears the prepared talisman next to their skin, the process takes six months to change the potion to crimson essence. This feat is only active while in regions affected by the Haze. Aditional Legacy: Inheritors drink crimson essence to acquire more Legacies permanently. Anyone else who drinks crimson essence will gain another legacy, but those are temporary. If an Inheritor drinks another vial of crimson essence before his training is complete, the Legacy will only be temporary. The chart shows at which character levels the character may acquire the legacy permanently. Legacies can only be acquired in regions affected by the Red Curse. Legacies fade away when the character passes outside the region affected by the Haze. Access to magical substances: The Orders of the Inheritors are societies which seek to control the supply of cinnabryl. This leads them to monitor the users of Legacies and the trade and traffic of red steel. The Inherito= r wizards have learned the secret of making smokepowder from other magical materials native to the Savage Coast. This grants members of the Orders easy access to purchasing cinnabryl, red steel items, crimson essence and smokepowder from their own Order. Bonus class-based skills: Depending on the character=B9s original class the Inheritor will be taught a skill or skills which fits their new role in the Order. Fighters earn craft (redsmithing), wizards receive alchemy, rogues receive disguise and craft (metalworking), bards receive gather information and knowledge (legacy) and clerics receive knowledge (legacy) and speak language. Code of the Orders: Inheritors are perceived as oppressors or criminals in some places, and heroes in others. Where Inheritors are despised they need guaranties of safety. Likewise, within secret societies with so many divisive philosophies arguments are inevitable, a unified code of behavior is important. The Code of the Orders exists primarily to protect Inheritor= s from other Inheritors, with decisions regarding other people left up to individuals. The code is primarily a set of courtesies; it applies only to full members in good standing. It has four parts. 1. The Sancity of Home: An Inheritor cannot violate the home of another Inheritor. Thus, Inheritors and their posessions are safe from other Inheritors within their own home. Anyone who violates this rule becomes th= e enemy of that Inheritor=B9s entire order. 2. The Official Challenge: An Inheritor cannot attack another Inheritor without first issuing a formal challenge. If an Inheritor on an adventure discovers anothe Inheritor and wishes to attack, he must first issue the challenge. A challenge typically lasts for only he given encounter, but th= e person issuing it can specify an amount of time (as in =B3you are my enemy until the end of the year=B2) or even make it permanent. This rule is intended to keep Inheritors from ambushing other Inheritors=8Bunless a permanent challenge has been issued. Note that the target cannot reject te challenge. 3. The Rendering of Aid: An Inheritor must give aid to other Inheritors of the same order. This is usually a temporary alliance for a specific encounter but can also extend to giving shelter to an Inheritor and that person=B9s travelling companions. The giver can decide exactly how much aid to provide, but cannot turn down a request completely. Generally, the person requesting aid makes the need specific. The two parties then negotiate on the exact help to be renderred. Once an agreement is made it cannot be broken. 4. The Sacredness of Conclave: An Inheritor involved in a conclave ofan= y type cannot be attacked by another Inheritor. This is for practical reasons, to prevent disruption at the Grand Conclave and to protect those o= n the way to a conclave. Inheritors have been known to use this rule to protect themselves from attack, asking a leader for assignment at a monthly Conclave, volunteering for a minor Conclave or simply traveling to Grand Conclave. The claim must be reasonable; an Inheritor 10 miles from the capital of Bellayne cannot expect proteection by claiming to be traveling t= o Grand Conclave a month before it starts. An Inheritor who defies the code can be declared a renegade, as can anyone who tells the secrets of the orders, or who consistently disobeys directives. At the next conclave (never a Minor Conclave), the accused is formally charged and given the opportunity for self-defense. If the conclave decides against the individual, punishments range from an order to correct the problem to a fine or even a sentence of death. The clerics of the orders record this decision, and word of it is spread by the order=B9s bards. Appeals are allowed only if the defendant can present new evidence to an order leader. An Inheritor who refused to accept punishment is declared a renegade and become the enemy of all other Inheritors, the subject of a hunt by members of all orders. Renegades lose all protection of the code. Unless a conclave of order leaders specifically decrees otherwise, a renegade is wanted dead or alive. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:38:24 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Statecraft is not about loyalty and friendship it is about doing what is in the ruling elites best interest. Give me a RW example of a nation (in the medieval era or earlier) doing something for reasons solely of friendship with no ulterior or peripheral advantage. I would suggest they they are very few and far between. What Stefan did was undoubtedly in his own best interests. Ditto with Thincol. So what? Who cares? There is nothing special or unusual about this - so called friendly nobles went around stabbing each other in the back all the time in the RW medieval period - read Machiavelli's "The Prince" if you want a contemporary account of some of the things that so called friends in the ruling elites did to each other. The way to prevent so-called friends from betraying you in this way is to be ruthless when necessary in punishing such breaches of loyalty. This was Caesar's problem. He was too generous to those that had betrayed him in the past. Result: the same people ended up stabbing him in the back again (quite literally). "Et tu Brute" and all that. So, what should Thyatis do to discourage future rebellions by Westrourke, Minrothad etc (here I am referring to the exarchates of Thyatis as discussed in the 1016 MA). An invasion of Karameikos would be appropriate - followed by extermination of the Karameikan ruling family and any who continue to pledge allegiance to it. That would be a perfect example of RW statecraft and would invalidate any need to call into questions Stefan's "morals". I do agree with James and Aleksei that Stefan has largely been portrayed in Canon as some sort of saint when this is far, far from the truth, and even contradicts much of the canon material that suggests otherwise. I mean you only need to look at how long he cast a blind eye to the abuses of Ludwig von Hendriks to know that is true. I cannot agree with the Canon interpretation that Stefan simply did not know of the inhumanity and deprivations imposed by the Black Eagle on the people of his barony. Anyway, that is some more grist for the mill. Adrian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 17:53:04 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Campaign Cartographer for Mac? In-Reply-To: <20001112234520.983158119@breg.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Now that I'm on a "real" computer (yay!), I wanted to make up some maps for > our home-grown world. problem is, all the software I've seen seem to be for > Windows. Is anyone aware of some that is compatible with Mac (Power PC)? I haven't found a decent program to do my mapping (I'm also on a Mac) like what CC is dedicated for. IMO, I'm not fond of the look of Campaign Cartographer maps anyway, but that is just graphic design bias. For my mapping I do it all in Photoshop (not a really affordable solution) Deneba's Canvas is the best of the apps that combines a decent bit-map and vector program in one (IMO), but it seems to slog through monster size maps that I like to work on, like 50-100MB size files. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:27:55 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladaran Mini-Gazetteer Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi again, Well, I'm sitting here bored out of my skull (not that I'm complaining), and I got to reminiscing about the old io.com and mpgn.com days of the list. (*sigh*) So then I started remembering when I used to post my stuff, rather than just give a reference URL. I don't even know why I stopped... Well, at any rate, I though it would be fun to post my latest thing to the MML, sort of a "welcome back" present to myself. ;-) Besides, it's timely, given the current thread on the Traitor King - er, I mean, Stefan the Holy. (*wicked grin*). So here follows the Traladaran Mini-Gazetteer, for your amusement. I'll post each article in a separate mailer, and will leave out the Culture section, which is from an older article at my site. The full Mini-Gaz can be found in all its html glory at my website below. Comments welcome! Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 18:21:19 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ranma Al'Thor Subject: Re: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001112123656.007a9550@10.1.1.1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 12 Nov 2000, Beau Yarbrough wrote: > At 23:15 11/11/00 -0600, Eric Anondson wrote: > >I was fooling around with some Savage Coast prestige class conversions and > >just finished up with the Inheritor and the Gaucho. > > I like this p. class, but the only thing I'd note is that this is a better > class than the fighter -- same progression, choice of feat every other > level PLUS additional class abilities. For balance, I'd drop the combat > progression to the same rate as a cleric's. > Fighters do get extra attacks and Gauchos don't, so far as I can tell from that chart, though. John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas ranma@falcon.cc.ukans.edu rhea@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html rhea@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/ "The connection is so abstract, that we have people whose job it is to make sure the paperwork doesn't get totally disconnected from the world. Theoretically, I handle millions of dollars a day, but it is less real than this e-mail. I have never seen our product. I have never seen the sales people. I have never seen a customer." --Robert Lane describes his work as an accountant. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:42 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 1 - Church of Traladara (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Church of Traladara by Jennifer Guerra The Church of Traladara is a venerable institution which has existed in the civilized coastlands of the country since the end of the first millennium BC. Having risen out of the Traladaran people's unshakable belief in the power of goodness, the heroism of Halav and his companions, and the eventua= l return of the Traldar people to the glory of the Golden Age, the Church is = a rock-solid institutionalized arbiter of Traladaran morality. Over seventy percent of the Karameikan population subscribe to the faith of the Church, nearly all of them Traladaran. The Church of Traladara concerns itself primarily with the behavior and morality of its followers. Church doctrine, therefore, forbids that followers should cause harm to others or their property. Such unlawful behavior is considered to contradict the examples of proper comport as give= n in the Church's holy text, The Song of King Halav. Therefore, the Church supports punishment for said immoral acts (as these are blasphemy), in proportion to the crime - up to and including the death penalty, for heinou= s crimes such as murder. "As the Beast-King did slay Halav, so Halav slew him in kind," goes a common sermon on such solemn occasion. Other Church dogmas are supported by the Song, such as the proper behavior of women (strong defender of the home, and supporter of men), the role of magic in Traladaran life (accepted, as was Zirchev accepted by Halav), and the responsibility of every Traladaran to fight evil in its myriad forms (including both passive and militarized resistance against invaders). The Church also serves the community by providing guidance, performing ceremonies, and supporting traditional cultural expressions, such as the Shearing. Followers of the Church of Traladara attend a formal ceremony, which involves an elaborate ritual granting forgiveness for repented misdeeds, prayers for the ill and the dead, and readings from the Song. Such ceremonies are held once daily in Mirros, and once weekly in smaller parishes throughout the countryside. Churches are always open, however, as it is common to find a handful of faithful there, praying, at all hours. Larger churches also typically contain three or more small shrines in niche= s off of the main sanctuary. These shrines are each dedicated to a particular aspect of one of the three Traladaran patron Immortals. Halav, Petra, and Zirchev each have countless aspects, as every village worships one particular to their local area. Sages believe these aspects reflect guises in which the Immortals have given aid or comfort to Their chosen over the centuries, as well as remnants of ancient Traldar Immortals. The most commo= n aspects are given below: Halav:=A0=A0=A0Beast-Slayer; Lawgiver; the Eternal Champion; the Celestial King; the Unconquerable Warrior; the Just; the Wise; Divine Judge Petra:=A0=A0=A0Defender of the People; the Divine Mother; Weaver of Fate; Hearth-Maiden; Sacred Healer; the Fair Warrior; the Gentle Queen Zirchev:=A0=A0=A0Mageborn; the All-Knowing; the Sly; Nightwalker; the Blazing-Arrow; Elf-Friend; the Wild Huntsman; the Changeling; Unerring Councillor=20 Church holy days often change locally, according to an important regional feast-day, or a day holy to a local Immortal aspect. However, the High Patriarch of Mirros - head of the entire Church - sets common holy days, which all faithful observe. The most imporant of these major feast days fal= l close together, making summer the holiest season for the Church. Holy days include: * Beasts' Day (1 Felmont )=A0-=A0=A0The battle between Halav and the Beast-King, and the end of the gnoll invasion, is observed. In Mirros, a large parade of celebrants, including charmed magical beasts, takes place before a grand celebratory Church ceremony. This marks the beginning of the official Church calendar year. Beasts' Day is the only Traladaran holy day recognized by the Karameikan and Thyatian governments (it's just too big to ignore).=20 * Feast of the Three Stars (15 Felmont )=A0-=A0=A0Traladarans celebrate the ascendance of Halav, Petra, and Zirchev to Immortality. As legend has it, three new stars appeared in the evening sky, close together, in the weeks following the defeat of the Beastmen, representing the new Powers. On this night each year, children eat star-shaped cakes and gaze up into the heaven= s to see if the Immortals will "wink" at them for good fortune. * Feast of Tidings (15 Ambyrmont )=A0-=A0=A0The faithful observe the meeting o= f Halav and Zirchev, the magic-trained huntsman who comes from the north with ill news of Beastmen, massing for war. Traladarans honor Zirchev's loyal service to Halav by honoring magic (including hedge-magic and folk-magic) and magic-users this day. Traladaran mages also traditionally give a gift t= o the leader of their host town or village. * Queen's Day (28 Sviftmont )=A0-=A0=A0This holy day marks the day Queen Petra of Krakatos allied herself with the warrior Halav and his advisor, Zirchev, in preparing for the coming war. On this day, Petra is honored in all her aspects, from Maiden of the Hearth, to Mother of the Traladarans, to Warrio= r Queen, to lover of Halav, to Wise Matriarch. Festivities range from solemn processions carrying images of Petra to grand feasts. Women are honored thi= s day by not having any domestic duties from dawn till dusk. * Day of the Dark Champion (15 Kaldmont )=A0-=A0=A0This day observes the dark necessity of Halav in slaying the King of Lavv, who disbelieved the Trio's warnings of the invasion. No bells are rung, and faithful gather in church for solemn ritual. Church fathers preach on Halav's desperate choice: the death of one man, his King, or the deaths of all unprepared Traladarans in the coming invasion. In recent years, radical Traladarans on this day have taken to fomenting unrest with speeches of the "necessary" removal of the Thyatian-controlled government...by force, if necessary. * Days of Darkness (Klarmont 26-28 )=A0-=A0=A0Faithful observe Halav's ultimat= e sacrifice for the Traldar people these three days. It is considered ill for= m (and very bad luck) for Traladarans to celebrate Halav's victory against th= e Beastmen on 1 Felmont without having gone to Church to "mourn" his necessar= y sacrifice first.=20 Just as the branches, holy days, and even specific Immortal aspects of the Traladaran Church are relatively decentralized, so is its Priesthood. Priests of the Church of Traladara may be ordained by any high priest. However, Patriarchs of the Church [there are four: the Patriarchs of Mirros= , Lavv (modern Kelvin), Krakatos (ceremonial until only recently), and Halag] must be formally ordained in the Church's seminary at Mirros. Those priests educated at the seminary and those ordained by seminary followers comprise the main body of Church clerics - about seventy percent. The remaining thirty percent comprises offshot orders, (about 10% each) dedicated to a specific Immortal. [Note: In game terms, treat these as specialty priests.] So, while 70% of Church clerics venerate all three Immortals, with "normal duties" as noted above, 10% each primarily worship Halav, Petra, or Zirchev= , and take upon themselves a more specialized calling: The Order of Halav:=A0=A0 These priests train in the art of military tactics, kingship, and war. Many are also members of the Order of the Golden Sword. In times long past, the Order of Halav defended Traladara from invasion and ruled many settlements. Most died in the Thyatian invasion and subsequent uprisings. Today, the Order supports toppling the government of King Stefan from within, and works to secretly place members as trusted members of the King's Guard.=20 The Order of Petra:=A0=A0 These priests train in the arts of defensive warfare and healing. The defenders vow to never again allow a foreign army to set foot on Traladaran soil. Healers concentrate on ministering to the needy wh= o cannot afford the ministrations of the Thyatian healer-priests of Chardastes.=20 The Order of Zirchev:=A0=A0 These priests train in cooperation with the Vyalia elves of the Western Dymrak, and defend the woodlands of the country agains= t defilement or incursion. A smaller segment of the Order train intensively a= t magic, hoping to aid in the restoration of an independent Traladaran state. These mage-priests have been banned, at King Stefan's command, from the School of Magecraft at Krakatos; most now train surreptitiously, with sympathetic masters. Common clerics of the Church of Traladara (i.e., those not in the special Orders) may also fight against evil, or to defend their homeland, but they have been prevented from making any large moves against King Stefan since the Marilenev Invasion, when the High Patriarch of Marilenev was executed for treason. As the strength of the Church depends upon its stability, the Church Father= s recognized that although there is little formal hierarchy in the institution, there should be at least a modicum of authority. Therefore, they empowered the Patriarch of Marilenev (now Mirros) to hold authority over all Church matters. While the High Patriarch is by no means a dictator over the priesthood, he does hold final say over all matters of doctrine, interpretation of scriptures or prophecies, the dispensation of holy relics= , the declaration of holy war, and all political involvement of the Church. The faithful thus consider the High Patriarch's word on religious matters t= o be tantamount to law. There has never been a female "High Matriarch"; this role is forbidden to women, as Petra is seen as having been subservient to Halav, and therefore unable to "rule" the Church. However, women can be found in all other ranks of the Church, except for the lesser Patriarchal roles. Furthermore, the ranks of the Church are open to all the "good faithful" [Note: all those of non-Evil alignment], regardless of race. Because of the proliferation of humans in Traladara, though, there has never been a non-human Patriarch. Officially, the High Patriarch and the Church counsel Traladarans to peacefully accept the new order; behind the scenes, it politics against the Thyatians at every turn. Indeed, some say that the Church will not condemn the actions of the Traladaran crime families because these criminals act against the government - tacit support which the Church equates to that of Halav slaying the King of Lavv: committing a sin for the good of the people at large. The "invaders" have countered this move in the war of faiths in the past by magically "inspiring" a Traladaran cleric to believe that King Stefan is Halav reborn. This "Cult of Halav" has been a thorn in the side of the Church ever since, drawing as much as five percent of the faithful to the side of the Loyalists through religious fervor. The current High Patriarch of Mirros, Alekseyev Nikelnevich, knows that eventually, the King may ban the Church of Traladara outright, in favor of his own State church; in that case, the formidable old cleric will, as once did his father, take to the battlefield in defense of his faith. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:42 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 2 - Order of the Golden Sword (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Order of the Golden Sword by Jennifer Guerra The Order of The Golden Sword, more properly the Military Order of Halav of the Golden Sword, was originally a small military brotherhood based near Halag in western Traladara, though the exact details of its founding are lost to history. The order's initial purpose was to provide protection for the pilgrims traveling to and from the holy sites in central Traladara - most particularly the Shrine of Halav Ascendant in ancient Lavv. The knight= s grew in power over the centuries, becoming the premier defense of Traladara against foreign invasion. While considered extremely powerful at home, the Order could not stand against the mighty forces of the Thyatian army during and after the invasion. Today, the remaining knights bide their time, gathering their strength and support for an eventual strike at the heart of Thyatian rule, King Stefan Karameikos. History. =A0Between AC 464 and 470, the thirteen founder knights had attached themselves to the order of regular clerics at the churches in Lavv and Koriszegy to give them military protection. Despite the hard times, the knights brought a considerable endowment to the new combined Order, and the priests soon assented to sharing their common revenues and agreed to provid= e hospital services to the knights, their serving brothers and sick pilgrims. As part of this agreement, the knights made vows of poverty (insofar as tithing to the Church and making gifts to the indigent count as "poverty"), humility, and service, and promised to undertake the conversion of "pagan" citizens of the teritory. The knights swore fealty to the Church of Traladara as their liege lord, and owed the Church siegnorial duties on any lands they might acquire (above the tithe) as such, according to the feudal standards of the day. The head of the Order, accorded the title of "Master," ruled with a Council of Three (the Trezago, representative of the Church's three patron Immortals), while the religious members (the Canons and Canonesses) were headed by their own Prior. The Master's deputy (a member of the Trezago), was accorded the title of Grand Commander. In the expansion of Traladara over the centuries, fueled by the growth of the large coastal trade settlements, the Order grew rich in land, whether b= y the "civilization" of new northern territory or by its conquest of "rogue" lords (who lived outside the Church's theocratic authority). When acquiring new estates, whether by gift or conquest, the Order would typically establish some kind of defensible buildings and, in larger towns, build substantial fortresses (in fact, one of the earliest military compounds in the town of Marilenev - now Mirros - was built by the Order). The area around would necessarily be dedicated to the production of food for the garrison and networks of villages and peasant communities would be joined b= y roads radiating from the center. Each of the principal castles would necessarily have their own administrative systems, subordinate to the local Commander, with groups of knights, sergeants and foot soldiers. At its peak (in the late eighth century), the Order boasted nearly 150 knights. To qualify for membership, candidates had to prove four noble quarterings (in other words, all four grandparents must be from "old Traladaran" nobility). Novices were required to serve the knights at one of the settlements for six months, and to study under the Church intensively for one month (of course, it was assumed that the knight-to-be had already had the requisite training in the art of war, as a squire). Modern Times. =A0The Thyatian invasion of the early tenth century caught the knighthood by surprise. The Order was not what it had been; the pursuit of wealth and the lack of internal conflict in this new, mercantile age resulted in the softening of the previously stringent military standards, and in the malignant spread of greed and corruption in the ranks and the administration. Masters now owed their position to the careful bribery of Council members and high priests as much as to their noble roots. The old chivalric codes, vital to the integrity of the knighthood, were considered overly rigid and outmoded by most. This top-heavy organization stood virualy no chance against the invading Thyatian machine. As the Master and Council were wracked by indecision and the wealthy new noble families of Traladara betrayed one another in exchang= e for the promise of Thyatian mercy, one knight - a young, stalwart paladin named Zorag Ivanov - rallied the forces of the youngest, most zealous knights and stood against the invaders. At the Battle of Volaga, they were slaughtered to a man. But the sacrifice galvanized the Order at last. Ivanov became the banner around which his compatriots rallied; the Church declared him a holy Martyr= . The revitalized knighthood once again challenged the invaders...and were again repulsed. The few survivors, mercilessly hunted, went underground, living off the mercy of sympathetic clerics. There, they began the lengthy process of regaining their numbers and strength. The Order Today. =A0The modern symbol of the Order is a glowing gold-plated sword, pointed down and unsheathed, with flory ends to the pommel and guard (the original symbol), poised above the heart of a black eagle (the modern addition, symbolizing the eventual triumph over the Thyatian invaders). The knights - in secret ceremony - wear white robes resembling a priest's habit with the sword sewn on the left side; the gold badge may be suspended from = a red ribbon and worn around the neck (surrpetitiously, in public), or it may be sewn onto the left breast. Novice knights are today required only to prove the Traladaran nobility of two of their four grandparents, that they and their parents and grandparent= s are legitimately born, and not descended from non-believers or heretics, an= d that they are practicing Church members in good standing. No persons of Thyatian or mixed Thyatian blood are permitted entry. Petition for admissio= n is made to the Council of Three, who will examine the petitioner's proofs. Due to the outlawed status of the Order, generally only one ceremony admitting one or two new knights is held each year, in a secret and heavily-guarded location. New members are knighted with the Sword of Halav, a golden blade of legendary magical power, said to have been granted to the faithful of the Order by the Immortal Himself [see "The Sword of Halav," detailed in the Magical Item Cards included in the Mystara Dungeon Master's Survival Kit]. The Order is slowly rebuilding its strength, and currently has about 30 members. Game Terms. =A0In game terms, treat the Order as a society of paladins, dedicated to the Church of Traladara, with all the requirements and abilities of that class except Laying on of Hands. However, because of the Order's outlaw status, knights cannot currently retain followers other than a single squire, nor can they build a fortress. Knights of the Order will g= o about their business as normal Traladaran fighters of noble blood; they wil= l use their resources to get positions in King Stefan's government, personal guard, and army command - and there bide their time until the Master declares the Order ready to strike as one body against the usurpers. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:42 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 3 - Traladaran Clans (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Traladaran Clans by Jennifer Guerra Before the Thyatian invasion, and the subsequent conquest of Traladara by Stefan Karameikos, this rich coastal and forest region was dominated by powerful Traladaran families, called clans. Clans often did business based on their location, such as coastal clans being involved in shipping and uplands clans in agriculture or logging, etc. (Note that this system is similar to that of the Darokinian trade houses, which are often dominated b= y members of a single family.) Each clan had its own siege, and while some were more powerful than others, all were powerful in their own right; and all were fairly wealthy, before they were crippled by Thyatian taxation. Below is a list of the most powerful Traladaran clans, their sieges, and an= y other information of note. Clans are listed in order of importance. Clans i= n [italics]* have ceased to exist; a reason is given in the notes section. *[Note: I've tried to preserve the original formatting in the mail format, but the table format available online is much more clear, for obvious reasons. -J.] Clan Siege Notes Vidrina Vidrin Entire clan killed in initial Thyatian invasion; Vidrin now the Barony of Vorloi Marilenev Marilenev Rebellion in 970s led to the massacre of nearly the entire clan; Lady Magda now lives alone. Marilenev lands encompass King Stefan's capital=20 Gogunov Lazkow Clan formerly based just outside Marilenev; half killed in initial invasion, half in Marilenev Rebellion Radu Mirros Modern family heads the Veiled Society and plots agains= t the King=20 Torenescu Mirros Related by marriage to Minister Zogrev Yarol and Magda Marilenev. Clan tries to advance Traladaran interests through political circles=20 Dracul Halag Clan used to dominate west-central Traladaran caravan trade; nearly exterminated by Black Eagle Baron. Related to Torenescus Artho Halag Trying to reassert dominance over sea trade after being persecuted by Black Eagle. Related to the Radus Kopul Volaga Volaga was south of modern Kelvin; clan killed fightin= g against Desmond Kelvin I. Andrios Volaga Clan capitulated to Baron Kelvin's rule. Magda Marilenev's family=20 Sulescu Sulescu Nosferatu lord swore grudging fealty to Stefan, but ducal troops sent to Sulescu in Marilenev Rebellion vanished Dromilov Dmitrov =A0 Moubotka Darinov Large coastal landholder Ourosco Ourosco Previously owned a great deal of coastal land. Was betrayed by the Vandevic family in initial invasion; land was stripped by Thyatians=20 Ivanovich Achelos Achelos was razed and Riverfork Keep built in its place. Ivanoviches still live in area Koriszegy Koriszegy Family died out in great tragedy, before Thyatian invasion=20 Vandevic Vandevicsny Clan founder Jan was a mercenary loyal to the Thyatians, and gained former Ourosco lands through treachery Brezovo Brezovo Small coastal estate; Lady Brezovo advances Traladaran interests at court Strolojca Mirros =A0 Suslova Halag =A0 Nikelnevich Mirros Alekseyev is current Patriarch of Church of Traladara; father Viktor (also Patriarch) killed in Marilenev Rebellion Lutescu Rugalov Sworn to the Crown, but loyal to Patriarch Alekseye= v Nikelnevich=20 Tormandros Fogor =A0 Gorevich Gorenenov Emigrated to Glantri before Thyatian invasion Woszlany Gorenenov Emigrated to Glantri before Thyatian invasion --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:42 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 4 - Andros Marilenev (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NPC: Andros Marilenev by Jennifer Guerra Andros is the second son of Sebastian Marilenev and his wife Milena Yanov. Milena was pregnant when Sebastian and their son Gyrgory were killed in the Marilenev Rebellion. When Melanie Marilenev "disappeared" soon after, Milen= a - who suspected that Melanie had indeed been murdered by royal agents - fle= d the country. Disguised as a peasant woman, she took a Minrothaddan vessel t= o the Five Shires, then traveled overland to Darokin. Andros (named for Milena's father) was born in Darokin City the following spring. Milena struggled to support her son on her own, selling everything with which she had fled, and learning to live without the luxuries to which she had been accustomed. Literate in Thyatian and Traladaran, she took a job transcribing purchase orders in a small Darokin City warehouse. When Andros was two, Milena married the owner of the struggling business, Horace Danvers. Danvers raised Andros as his son; the couple had no children of their own. Andros grew up as any Darokinian child of the lesser merchant class. He was educated by a private tutor, and worked under Horace at the warehouse from adolescence. He had no particular ambition in life, other than a vague drea= m of adventuring. He knew nothing of his true father, only that his mother wa= s Traladaran, and had been widowed before his birth. By the time Andros was seventeen, he chafed at the thought of entering the family business. He devoured books on Traladara and its people, searching for his true heritage. Finally, he stood before his shocked parents one evening in a ragged cloak and battered sword: he would undergo the Shearing= . Over his stepfather's protests and his mother's hysterical weeping, Andros left. He adventured in the wild northeast of Darokin for a year, then joined a party of like-minded individuals and traveled all over the Known World. Andros formed a new passion in those years: architecture. He was awed by th= e beauty of Ylari minarets, the grace of Belcadiz palaces, the majesty of Thyatian fortresses. At twenty, Andros gave up adventuring to apprentice in Rockhome under a master engineer. An urgent letter from home in 994 cut his training short; Horace was gravel= y ill. By the time Andros arrived in Darokin, the only father he had ever kno= w was dead. The failing warehouse, and the care of his twice-widowed mother, was his. Against his mother's wishes, Andros closed the warehouse. She wept bitterly= : What was he thinking? And why had he joined the Mason's Guild? But Andros had a dream. Using money he had won in his adventuring career, he converted the small warehouse to an office building. Exercising his charm, wit, and knowledge, he contracted a few clients, and Darokin's newest architectural design firm was born. The years passed as Andros built his business's reputation and client base into one of the best in the capital city. His greatest achievement, a renovation of the Merchants' Guild Hall, won him a governmental award of recognition. Andros was also quite content in his personal life; he never married, but left a string of broken hearts behind him (one of which was reputed to be none other than the scandalously-younger Ginevra Mauntea). But soon, Andros' life of contentment was turned upside down. Milena died in the spring of 1014, of wasting disease. On her deathbed, she finally told Andros that for which he had yearned all these years: his birt= h name, Marilenev. Andros knew of the Marilenev Rebellion and its bloody aftermath from his readings in Traladaran history. Proud of his father's sacrifice and his mother's bravery, he embraced his birthright. He began using the name Marilenev publicly. In 1015, a mysterious mage visited Andros. The mage explained that he represented Lady Magda Marilenev of Karameikos; they had, at last, found a surviving member of that family. Andros traveled to Mirros to meet his "aunt" Magda. There, he learned the true story of the Marilenev Rebellion. He also learned, searching the famil= y archives on his own, that the family had been the royalty of Old Traladara, before the Thyatian invasion. A series of long conversations with Magda further enlightened Andros to the plight of the Traladaran people - his people. Finally, Andros determined that he would not only claim the title Lord Marilenev, as was his right, bu= t also reclaim the independence of Traladara. In the brief period since, he has gained the support of the major Traladaran families. Their help secured= , Andros recently married beautiful, young Ileina Callarii, to divide that elven clan's support for the King. It is an arranged and loveless match, bu= t Andros is still friendly toward the naive elf, who is already pregnant with the couple's first child. With the popular support of the Traladaran people behind him, Andros has become King Stefan's number-one enemy. Assasination attempts against Andros are growing more common. The King will not strike directly at Andros, though, fearing all-out rebellion. Appearance:=A0=A0Andros is a Traladaran man of middle age, with dark brown hair and hazel eyes. He is tall for a Traladaran (5'11"), handsome and dashing, with a quick laugh. His short, wavy hair is perpetually tousled, making him appear younger than he really is. He dresses in fine clothing in the Darokinian style, though he now more often dresses in the style of the Traladaran nobility. Andros is good-natured, chivalrous (and flirtatious), and a little old-fashioned (for a Darokinian), and can often be seen making a deep bow, or kissing a lady's hand. What He Says:=A0=A0"Ahh, yes, I have had the honor of meeting Lord Ourosco, at his home last month. Such style, such grace!...His manor, I mean." What Others Say:=A0=A0"The hope of the Traladaran people, wrapped in such a charming package. But we must take care, my love, for often arsenic disguises as sugar." (Gloria Radu, in a private letter to her husband Anton.) Andros Marilenev (6th level fighter):=A0=A0Thac0 13; #Attacks 3/2; Damage 1d8+3 (longsword +2, Strength bonus); AC 8 (leather, in public) or AC 3 (plate an= d mail, in combat); hp 48; ML 15; AL LG. STR 16, DEX 13, CON 15, INT 14, WIS 13, CHA 16. Languages:=A0Darokinian, Traldaran, Thyatian. Proficiencies:=A0Blind-fighting; architectural engineering; riding (land); etiquette. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 5 - Burning Candle (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Fiction: Burning Candle by Jennifer Guerra Andros looked slightly uncomfortable in the pine oil-and-incense shadows of the cathedral, fumbling with the blessed water font in the flickering semi-darkness. But he walked her up the central aisle of the nave amid the half-hidden stares of the prayer-beaded widows, past the icons to the high altar and then, awaiting her genuflection there, to the small niche beyond. This tiny shrine, ablaze with the light of a hundred devotionals, held but = a single kneeler before the ancient icon of Petra the Mother, a softer aspect of the Immortal queen. The candles' heat warmed her cheeks like a girl's blush, making her suddenly self-conscious. Magda shrugged off the feeling; old woman's fancy. Taking her pale, blue-veined hand (ahh, vanity! she thought) in his own, he helped her to the padded oak board. Her knees creaked an ignored protest. That favor done, he withdrew silently to the nave proper, bless him. She sighed, a gesture that, these days, racked the bottom of her lungs. Reachin= g up, she pulled the pins from her soft white hair; it tumbled to her back, though it did not feel as heavy as it had in those early years when she had presented herself to the Mother in this most devout and submissive of postures. The statue of the Mother loomed above her, comfortably familiar i= n her pale, paint-on-wood robes ad unbound hair and patient half-smile. Another year, my daughter, it said. Ai, Matka, she answered in the old dialect. And burst into tears. They came silently, and without sobs, streaming down her face and dropping in a little patter to the velvet bodice of her gown. Ai, she thought, another year. She sighed again, her eyes closing involuntarily. A candle sputtered; a whiff of hot wax filled her nose, thick and cloying... -***- ...The heavy double doors banged open, the high, cold air rushing in to douse the tall candles. She jumped to her feet, legs weak as she crossed th= e great hall of the castle. The smell of the wax nearly overpowered her. The Orlov boy, Artemi, rode directly into the hall. He was covered in blood= , except for the white tracks his tears had made. Had it gone so badly, then, she sighed. There had been no stopping Valor, no reasoning with him: wait for the other clans, all in due time. But the latest demonstration had swelled into a riot, and had been suppressed so brutally; Grygory, Sebastian's boy, had been gravely injured. She snapped herself back to Artemi. She could not focus, could not breathe. They will not release his body, Milady, he was sobbing. The hall spun, and she choked on candle wax. Body? His body? So sorry, milady... Someone was screaming, someone was yelling at Artemi even as the boy fell from the saddle, his own wounds finally overtaking him. Hush, milady... -***- ...Of course, they returned the bodies. After performing a botched resurrection to sever the soul's tie. The priest - the Patriarch, she reminded herself, now that Viktor Nikelnevich was dead - turned from the bed, shaking his head sadly. The novice blew out the tall candle and prepared for the Last Rites. They put him in the ground that evening. She was sitting by the fire afterward, still in her black lace mantle, musing that never again would he call her "Madda," when the soldiers arrived. There were not enough guards left to keep them from the door, she saw from her upstairs chamber. Racing down the steps to the hall, she tripped on the hem of her gown and stumbled. What if she had not tripped, had been quicker= ? They already had the boys in the hall when she arrived, mailed hands rough on their small shoulders. Caspar, who was only five, cried and reached for her. The captain brandished a paper: Orders to escort the young Lord Marilenev t= o safekeeping within the Duke's stronghold, he read. Hostage, then. She offered herself in exchange. She begged, pleaded. What had the Duke to fear from a seven year-old lord? The captain turned; his hand had left a welt on Britan arm. Tearing herself from her ladies' grasps, she spun toward the stone wall, where the heirloom great sword hung. A candle burned beside it, and touched her forearm; she felt no pain. Arms straining, she yanked the blade from it= s place and whirled skillessly around, hair falling unbound around her face, soaked in tears. The captain put his sword to Britan's small throat, and sh= e hesitated just enough. The guard blind-sided her, smashing the sword from her hands with his own, cracking her fingers. The second blow, with the pommel, knocked her, semi-conscious, to the floor. She could only pray afte= r that, in the blur, that her sons were not there to witness the rest. They never made it to the capital, of course. Ambushed by orcs. Orcs who raided on the heavily-traded road between the castle and the capital, who fought with Thyatian swords. Who left the guards, and their captain, alive. The resurrections again failed. But this time she did not scream. This time she did not speak for a year... -***- ...It was a Soladain when he sent for her, nearly two years later. Her hands, thinner now and not so soft, shook as she opened the heavy maple church door. The air, cold and flat, assailed her nose. Where were the candles, the incense, the icons? But there were none of those comforts in this alien place, his State church. Only flat plaster reliefs of souls in their final judgement, and a chorale practicing an emotionless hymn in perfect Thyatian. He stepped from the nook that hid the balcony stairs. A quick glance around revealed his guards everywhere, flashes of white and blue. She listened dispassionately as he enumerated the reasons for their marriage, and noted that he did not mention the need for Traladaran support outright. A coward in the end, then; a politician. She laughed, she could not help it. And then she walked out. The horror of it, that he could dare, did not hit till she was in the street. Images of that day flashed in her mind. Nausea rose, threatening to choke her. She stumbled across the street, into the cathedral, to the shrin= e of the Mother, and wept bitterly... -***- ...The whiff of wax passed, becoming the acrid smoke of burned wick. The candle had sputtered out. Her eyelids fluttered open, and she sighed again. Straightening her spine into the strong posture - some would say "cold" - for which she was known, she gazed up at the Mother with steel-blue eyes. "Ai, Matka, another year," she whispered, "but no more." Struggling against her stiff knees to rise gracefully, she stepped to the door of the shrine. Andros was there immediately with a supporting hand. Turning back to the icon again, she took a small burnt stick from the pedestal and re-lit the candle. "Happy birthday, my Britan," she whispered. "Now you will no longer be the last Lord Marilenev." Taking his arm, she stepped out into the cathedral. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 6 - Traladaran Wizard Spells (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A Sampling of Traladaran Wizard Spells by Jennifer Guerra Torosk's Torment (Enchantment/Charm) Level: 6 Range: Touch Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 round Duration: 3 days per level of the caster Area of Effect: Creature touched Saving Throw: Negates This nasty spell was developed by the Traladaran wizard Torosk, to wreak a devious vengeance upon rivals. Torosk was a small man, considered a weaklin= g by many "superior" academy-trained mages of the Guild in the capital. But this virtually non-detectable spell helped Torosk to level the playing field. The spell requires that the intended victim be touched while the caster is holding the spell's single material component: a lit candle. (Torosk did no= t find this difficult, as he invited his rivals to his tower, and held the candle as he led the victim to their chambers after dinner.) The spell must be cast within one hour of the touch, or it will have no effect. Once the spell is cast, and the victim (should he fails a save vs. spells) falls asleep, the torment begins: every time he settles into restful sleep, he sees a bright flash of flickering light (candlelight, in fact, much magnified) through his closed eyelids and is jerked awake. Covering the eye= s with a mask, pillow, etc., does not help. The victim gets little restful sleep; if he is a mage, he is not sufficiently rested to cast his spells. The cause of this phenomenon is difficult to trace, as it leaves no magical residue, continues after the victim departs Torosk's tower, and is not able to be dispelled unless the component candle is smashed (or a Wish is used). -***- River of Blood (Evocation, Necromancy) Level: 8 Components: V, S, M Range: Special Casting Time: 1 turn Duration: 1 round per 2 levels of the caster Area of Effect: Cylindrical path, 20-ft. diameter, 80 feet long Saving Throw: Special This powerful spell was developed by mages working in concert with the knights of the Order of the Golden Sword during the Thyatian invasion of th= e tenth century. Knowing that armies on the move in summer tend to use dry creek beds as ready campsites, the mage Korosh Zargev created River of Blood.=20 This spell creates a flash flood of blood, 80 feet long, which barrels down the path of the creek or river bed, upon the enemy encampment. To cast it, the mage chants the incantation. He then drinks from a vial full of the blood of compatriots slain on the battlefield (the mage cannot slay these warriors himself - they must have been killed by the enemy), and holds the blood in his mouth. Whispering (or rather, gargling) one final word, he spits the blood in the desired direction. The blood expands magically, travelling along the dry bed, growing in size and strength until - within one round - it becomes a raging flash flood. The river travels 40 yards per round; after the first round of travel, it hits with the power of a massive ram: all items in the river's path must make a save vs. crushing blow or be destroyed. People (and animals, if applicable) must make a Dexterity check at -3 to get out of the river's way= ; success indicates that he is flung 1d12 feet aside, taking 1d4+1 points of damage. He must make a successful Strength check to hold onto carried or worn items. Failure of the Dexterity check means that he takes the full brunt of the crushing wave of blood: 6d8 points of damage from the force, plus 1d4 points of suffocation damage while in the wave. Plus, creatures struck so must make a successful system shock roll, or be instantly killed. The caster has no control over the size or strength of the river, nor can h= e control it once he has created and directed it. Friends, allies, even the caster himself are prey to the river's power, should they step into its path. This spell, while powerful against one's enemies at war, is a highly guarded secret of only the most powerful of Traladaran mages, since they fear it falling into the wrong hands (particularly, those of King Stefan's loyal academy-mages). --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 7 - Traladaran Priest Spells (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable A Sampling of Traladaran Priest Spells by Jennifer Guerra Consecration (Invocation) Sphere:=A0 All Level:=A0 2 Range:=A0 10 yards Components:=A0 Special Casting Time:=A0 1 turn Duration:=A0 Special Area of Effect:=A0 Special Saving Throw:=A0 None This is a simple ceremonial spell, performed often by priests of the Church of Traladara. However, the power of the spell is increased by the use of a special material component. Consecration is used by a priest to ritually cleanse the ground before it i= s put to any religious use (i.e., the site of a church or cathedral, a graveyard, or a future ritual circle). [Note: as in the first-level spell Ceremony (Priest's Spell Compendium, Volume One), cemetary ground consecrated in this manner serves to turn undead with the effectiveness of = a third-level cleric.] The spell imbues the ground with power, making it holy in the sight of the Church's Immortal patrons (+1 to morale of Church followers; +1 attack and damage to faithful defending this ground from attack), and hostile to the Church's enemies (-1 morale and -1 to attack an= d damage). The spell's effect is permanent, unless the ground is defiled (as per the reverse form of the spell Sanctify). If, however, the priest casting this spell is in posession of the Panel of Glory (see below)*, the blessing of the Immortals upon the consecrated ground is magnified. In this case, defenders receive +2 to the above situations (and attackers likewise receive a -2 penalty), and any graveyard so blessed turns undead as a fifth-level cleric. Furthermore, Chaotic Evil beings are so overwhelmingly reviled by the holiness of the land that they incur 1 hp of damage for each turn they spend upon it. *The Panel of Glory This is a wooden panel painted upon in thick oils. The Panel is a religious icon, and depicts Halav Ascendant - following his death at the hands of the Beast-King and resurrection by the Immortals. The Panel is so called because, within, Halav is depicted with bright garments within a transparen= t and interrupted circular "glory" that follows the contour of the crown of light upon his head. Halav, having descended into the afterlife at the height of his power, is seen with a firm footing and a powerful stance upon the gates of Limbo, which have fallen before him. In his left hand, Halav i= s holding a huge golden-glowing bronze sword, the symbol of his victory. His companions Petra and Zirchev, already anointed by Immortal fire flickering above their heads, await him. This is believed to be the only Church icon i= n which all three Traladaran patrons are depicted together. Church elders have not been able to successfully date the Panel, beyond knowing that it is so old as to have been painted perhaps just after the events depicted. However, for all its age, the Panel is never affected by the ravages of time; the paints are just a bright and uncorrupted as the da= y the Panel was finished. In 663 AC, Patriarch Ilya Kolyak was transporting the panel from Marilenev to the cloister of his order, for study when he came upon a small country village, whose inhabitants asked him to bless their new graveyard. Ilya performed the Consecration with the Panel in hand, then left. But soon thereafter, rumors spread that the ceremony had unusually potent effects. A= n investigation ensued. And ever since, whenever a powerful Consecration is needed, the Panel is brought forth. -***- Freedom's Path (Illusion) Sphere:=A0 Travelers, Wards, Protection Level:=A0 6 Range:=A0 Touch Components:=A0 V, S, M Casting Time:=A0 1 turn Duration:=A0 1 hour per level of the priest Area of Effect:=A0 Special Saving Throw:=A0 Negates By means of this spell, the priest calls upon an illusion which conceals a group of travelers in his charge (as well as himself); up to ten persons. N= o person or creature passing within feet of the group will know that they are there, as their sound, speech, smell, and sight are masked by the spell, blending them with the surrounding terrain so well as to render them temporarily nearly invisible. The travelers may, so disguised, continue in their journey, knowing that they are safe from spying eyes. However, the spell may not be cast upon an unwilling subject (who receives a saving thro= w at +5). Furthermore, the recipients, while concealed, are still there - anyone touching a disguised person will immediately know that someone is there, and may see the disguised party thereafter (Intelligence check at +2). This spell was developed by a specialty priest of Petra the Defender during the tyranny of the Black Eagle Baron in Halag. The priest used Freedom's Path to smuggle Traladarans to nearby Luln after the Barony's borders were closed. The spell has since made it into the regular canon of Petra's spells; it will only be granted to priests who have such a noble need as it= s creator.=20 -***- Conceal Base (Abjuration, Illusion) Sphere:=A0 Wards, Protection, War Level:=A0 7 Range:=A0 10 yards Components:=A0 V, S, M Casting Time:=A0 1 hour Duration:=A0 1 week + 1 day per level of the priest Area of Effect:=A0 1 yard cube per level Saving Throw:=A0 None Ever since the Thyatian invasion, Traladarans have struggled to regain the freedom of their homeland. Guerrilla groups abound in this heavily-forested land, using the haven of the wilderness as a platform from which to launch surprise attacks against Thyatian settlements. Many priests have also committed their lives to this goal, traveling with guerrilla groups and bestowing upon them the protection of the Immortals. One such priest is Vladimir Darovich, an accomplished cleric-mage devoted t= o the service of the Immortal Zirchev. Vladimir developed this spell for the express protection of a band of guerrilla fighters, the Sword of Volaga. It is based upon a mage spell, Sequester [Wizard's Spell Compendium, Volume Three], which Vladimir found in a defiled crypt and thereafter studied. When cast upon the base-of-operations of a guerrilla group (or any other small, isolated location, for that matter), this spell prevents detection and location spells from working upon that structure or area. It also renders the location virtually invisible for the duration of the spell (unless powerful, magical means such as a gem of seeing are utilized). Of course, the spell does not prevent the camp, etc., from being found by tactile means (i.e., stumbling against a concealed building). People can also move in and out of the concealed area, though if more than three persons per hour (total, in either direction) move through the sight barrier, the spell will be disrupted. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 8 - Cleric-Mages of Zirchev (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Cleric-mages of Zirchev by Jennifer Guerra and Carl Quaif The Order of Zirchev is a sect of the Church of Traladara dedicated to the defense of the country's wildlands against defilement or insursion. A small= , little-known sect within the Order, the Cleric-Mages of Zirchev (officially= , the Holy Magical Order of Zirchev Mageborn) train intensively at magic, hoping to aid in the restoration of an independent Traladaran state. These mage-priests have been banned, at King Stefan's command, from the School of Magecraft at Krakatos; most now train surreptitiously, with sympathetic masters - many among the Vyalia elves of eastern Karameikos. The Cleric-Mages of Zirchev advance as clerics for game purposes, with all benefits and restrictions due to common clerics of the Church (with major spell access in the Plant and Animal spheres, and minor access in Healing). Due to their forest-based training, they receive the Tracking and Surival skills as bonus proficiencies. However, in order to gain their training in the art of magecraft, Cleric-Mages cannot devote time to the art of war; therefore, they receive no weapon proficiency slots, and can use only a dagger or small blade (as per the mage class) in combat. In exchange for these lost abilities, the Cleric-Mage gains the abilities of a standard mage, beginning at the fourth clerical level (i.e., a fourth-level cleric gains the abilities of a first-level mage, etc.). Note that standard magical restrictions, such as spell components, memorization of spells, and so on, still apply. The Cleric-Mages may progress in their magical knowledge over time to the equivalent of the sixth level of magrcraft. They may progress as clerics as far as any standard cleric, though they may only gain a single weapon proficiency (short bow or longsword), a minimum of two levels after progression as a mage ceases. Due to their magical "cross-training," many Cleric-Mages have sought to replicate magical effects in priestly spells over the years (no doubt to enhance their spellcasting efficacy). As a result of their efforts, some of their created spells have become standard for the sect. The following spell= s are thus among those granted to the Cleric-Mage followers of the Immortal Zirchev.=20 -***- Dream Pollen=20 Level: 1=20 Range: 20'=20 Duration: 2d6 Turns Effect: sends creatures within range to sleep This clerical variant of the mage spell Sleep is ancient; legend has it tha= t Zirchev devised it whilst still mortal, as part of his Quest for Immortality. Cleric-Mages today use it as a defense against both evil intruders and "accidental" visitors. Despite its name, the spell does not necessarily require pollen; any particulate vegetable matter (poppy seeds, ground tree bark, etc) will do. The caster must hold a handful of such matter in his left hand wile casting the spell; at its finish, he must blow sharply on the pollen, spraying it in an area measuring roughly 10' x 10'. All creatures of less than 4 HD in that area will immediately fall asleep (no saving throw) for 2d6 Turns, unless shaken awake. Creatures with more than 4 HD are not affected. A victim of this spell can be slain with a single blow from a weapon, although this is done only if the victim is an obvious or proven enemy; otherwise, most Cleric-Mages will simply remove th= e interloper to another part of the forest, away from their protected areas. Note: Using the Clerical Special Powers from WotI, Cleric-Mages of Zirchev gain the ability to cast one Dream Pollen spell once per day at 1st Level (although, like normal Clerics, they gain no true spells until 2nd Level). This is in addition to the normal complement of spells. -***- Verdant Elixir=20 Level: 1=20 Range: 30'=20 Duration: special (see below) Effect: charms 1 individual This adaptation of the mage spell Charm Person has seen frequent use amongs= t Zirchev's followers, particularly at those times when their sect has come under heavy scrutiny and condemnation. The spell requires that a herbal infusion, such as willowbark tea, be brewe= d by the Cleric-Mage. This drink is then enchanted with the spell, and given to the recipient. The liquid must be consumed by the drinker of her own fre= e will (although she need not know that it is more than just a restorative), or the spell will fail. The enchantment takes effect with no saving throw, and functions more or less identically to a Charm Person effect, with a saving throw allowed approximately once per week to break the charm; however, many Cleric-Mages will have their Charmed companions drink more regular doses "for their health", to reinforce their control. Currently, the spell is most often used on new initiates into the mysteries of Zirchev's worship, to ensure they are not spies; such imbibers are made fully aware of the nature of the potion they consume, as a test of their willingness to join. In olden times, however, certain Cleric-Mages were known to inveigle their way into the service of great lords, posing as wise men, wizards or simple apothecaries, in order to use this spell as a means to take power behind the scenes.... -***- Forest Watcher=20 Level: 2=20 Range: 0' (caster only) Duration: permanent until broken Effect: camouflages caster in woodland settings Designed to allow Cleric-Mages the opportunity to observe intruders into their domains without notice, this spell cloaks the caster with illusion, making him appear to be some small, unremarkable forest creature, such as a rabbit, squirrel etc (chosen during casting). The illusion is extremely lifelike, an moves with the caster, simulating the normal movement of the creature as the caster walks. Observers have a 1 in 6 chance, if they state they are suspicious of the animal, of spotting the one flaw in the illusion - the creature casts no shadow. The spell is broken if the caster attacks another person; otherwise, it can potentially last forever. The spell is named for the Forest Watchers, the title given to those members of the Order of Zirchev whose duty it is to watch for interlopers and ravagers of the forest. -***- Sentinel Tree=20 Level: 2=20 Range: touch=20 Duration: 12 hours=20 Effect: temporary enchantment of 1 tree This spell, which has no magical equivalent, enchants a single tree to "record" everything which happens nearby for the next 12 hours. The caster will usually select a tree near a known campsite, or by an established trail, for the purpose. At any time upto 24 hours after the spell expires, the caster may touch his forehead to the tree's trunk to receive its recorded impressions. These are transmitted directly into the caster's mind in a single burst, requiring hi= m to sit and meditate for at least one hour to decipher them. The images will be shadowy, with little detail. The caster can tell if, and when in the recording, living things passed by; he will know how many, and what movements were made, but no details of race or individual appearance can be discerned. Relative alignment can be guessed, as images of evil or cruel beings will appear "darker" than good ones. Since the tree keys into life-force for its recording, the spell cannot make the tree sense the presence of undead under any circumstances. The tree chosen to receive this spell must be alive and growing; a dead trunk may not be enchanted. A singl= e tree may be used as the spell focus an unlimited number of times. -***- Ring of the Forest Watchers This item is a plain copper thumb-ring; engraved on the inside is the Holy Symbol of the Cleric-Mages of Zirchev. The detail of the engraving is exquisite. Despite the soft metal they are made from, none of these Rings ever dent, bend or tarnish in any way. When worn, the Ring renders the wearer invisible, while simultaneously creating the illusion of a small, common forest creature (squirrel, rabbit, fieldmouse, etc) in his place. As the wearer moves, the animal moves with him, using its own "normal" method of locomotion. These Rings are usually enchanted to produce up to 2d4 different animal images; the wearer may change between them at will, to allay suspicion in anyone who may notice they are being followed. If the wearer attacks someone, the Ring's magic is cancelled; the wearer may not reassume his animal aspect for a full Turn. There are perhaps 15 of these Rings in existence; most, if not all, belong to members of the sect which enchanted them, the Cleric-Mages of Zirchev. Ownership of a Ring of the Forest Watchers is usually restricted to the high-level members of the sect, although some adventuresome members have been known to use them on occasion. --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) and Carl Quaif. Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 9 - Traladaran Magical Items (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Traladaran Magical Items by Jennifer Guerra Ilyana's Tree This rather unusual item was created for the tenth-century Traladaran range= r Ilyana Kushova by her lover, the Callarii warrior Palantyr Tanduil. Ilyana had a long and successful career of protecting the western forests from human exploitation; she was regarded by the Callarii elves as a trusted friend and ally. When Duke Stefan Karameikos assumed control of the Thyatian-held coastal lands and pushed inland with his troops, Ilyana took up the cause of the Traladaran Resistance - fighting to keep the invaders from despoiling the ancient forests she guarded. These actions placed Ilyana in much more dange= r than from the typical poacher or land-squatter, and Palantyr recognized this. An accomplished wizard, Palantyr created the Tree for his love, for her protection. Ilyana's Tree appears in the form of a large silver seed, about the size of a walnut. Magical runes of protection and life are inscribed all over its surface. When the seed is buried in the ground (a simple hand-dug hole just deep enough to cover the seed is sufficient), a mighty tree springs from within, fully grown and as perfectly "natural" as any other tree in the forest. The tree appears as any species of deciduous tree in the area, whether it be oak, maple, aspen, etc. Upon the tree's growth to its full size, the user may speak a command word in Elvish which opens a hole in the trunk large enough for a normal-sized human to fit through. This "door" closes automatically when the speaker of the word is within; only one person may be sheltered in this manner, and only the person who speaks the command word. Inside, the tree magically contains a small room with a dirt floor (large enough to sleep upon) and three days' supply of water and rations. The area outside is visible throug= h small knotholes in the "walls." The user of the tree-shelter may leave at any time, at will; she simply steps through the doorway visible in the "room." Once outside, the tree vanishes back into its seed at the command word, and may be dug up for future use. The seed may be used in this manner once per day. Ilyana used the Tree to her advantage for many years, until her capture (an= d subsequent execution) by the Duke's troops in 997. The magical seed was relegated to a Mirros treasure room, and was slated to be turned over to th= e Magicians' Guild for investigation when it inexplicably vanished. In actuality, it was stolen by members of the Elvenguard and returned to Palantyr...who holds it to this day, waiting for the coming of another worthy defender of the Forest. -***- Trident of Insurrection There are a thousand tales of Traladaran heroism in the face of the Thyatia= n invasions. Some are true, some are myth, but most fall somewhere in between... A century ago, in a tiny coastal hamlet called Chmerkin, the people lived from day to day, toiling in the fields or fishing. Barely fifty families lived in this little community, none of them warriors or wizards; neither was the village under the protection of a powerful lord. The sole "leader" of Chmerkin - if he could be so called - was Father Ignaty, the impoverishe= d priest who served the village. And so it was when a Thyatian landing force sent an expedition up the coast to Chmerkin. The ten soldiers, under the command of a corrupt captain named Solus, descended upon the village like a gang of thugs, burning precious crops and abusing the women. Chmerkin was "secured" in less than a half-hour. The frightened villagers were marched to the common, where Captain Solus would record their names and posessions...and claim a good portion for himself. During this process, a young, newly-wed girl objected to the Captain's claim on her simple wedding band. Guards slapped the insolent girl; when her husband protested, he was slain on the spot. A small riot erupted, and the Captain began to cry out the order to kill every villager. "Stop!" a desperate shout rang out. At the head of the melee stood Father Ignaty, a pitchfork pressed to the Captain's exposed throat. Wild-eyed, he gestured the soldiers away from the stunned civilians. They stepped back, awaiting a word from their imperiled commander. "By the power of Halav, Petra, and Zirchev," the priest cried, "you will no= t hurt these innocents!" For a brief moment, a miracle seemed possible: Fathe= r Ignaty, filled with the fury of the Immortals, would drive the invaders fro= m Chmerkin.... "Kill them all!" hissed Solus into the silence. The pitchfork thrust forward; the Captain slumped to the ground, dead. And then little Chmerkin became a killing field... ...A week after the massacre at Chmerkin, a contingent of priests from Marilenev (or, as the invaders called it, Specularum) visited the site to perform funeral rites. As he surveyed the gruesome remains, one priest - walking alone - noticed Ignaty's headless body, one hand still on the blood= y pitchfork. He bent to bless his fallen comrade, touching the hand as he whispered, "May the Immortals hear your final prayer, my friend." At that instant, the priest later wrote in his diary, the pitchfork "raised up out of our departed Brother's hand, and, glowing with a deep and golden light, floated in the air before me. I saw before me then the scene of the slaughter at Chmerkin and heard Ignaty's last prayer, for the lives of the innocents in his charge. And then a woman's voice rang out above me, saying= , 'I shall avenge my faithful.' The pitchfork then transformed into a mighty trident, brandished above me in promise of triumph, and vanished!" Although none of the priest's companions were witness to the vision, they did report feeling a blast of cold air from nowhere (it was quite a warm day). And the pitchfork had inexplicably vanished. Since that day, elders of the Church of Traladara have sought the pitchfork - or Trident - as a relic of the Faith. Supporters of the priest's tale cal= l the item the Trident of Insurrection, and believe that it is blessed by Petra, the Defender, to help drive the Thyatians from Traladaran shores. Thyatians vigorously deny the legend of the Trident, saying that the priest created the myth to subvert Thyatian rule and incite rebellion. They maintain that "Ignaty's Pitchfork" holds no powers, and in fact is probably rusting in some poor farmer's barn. But there are bards who tell tales of peasant heroes who overthrow their oppressors in far corners of the realm. It is said that in the moments of their greatest desperation, a glowing Trident appears before them, with the power to defeat the most powerful mortal enemies. When victory is won, the Trident vanishes in a burst of light...only to turn up again, when it is most needed. Or so it is said... --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 10 - Campaign Ideas (long) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Traladaran Campaign Ideas by Jennifer Guerra So, how do you integrate this information into your Kingdom of Karameikos campaign? It's not at all difficult, though it does take some setting up. First off, you must have your campaign established in Karameikos, and preferably have at least one PC of Traladaran blood. While it may be interesting to have a party of Glantrians or Darokinians meddling in the land to the south, it just won't mean as much to the characters, and revolution is an emotional thing. So let's presume that your campaign is established in Karameikos, with Karameikan or Traladaran characters. What happens next? Here are some ideas= , drawn in part from sourcebooks such as Gaz1: Grand Duchy of Karameikos and Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure: Traladaran PCs: Traladaran characters may hail from one of the old Clans, and want to see their country free of Thyatian rule. It would only get them killed to just storm King Stefan's castle. And it is very difficult to reasonably have a small group of people stir up a revolution all on their own, without riskin= g martyrdom. So you, the DM, must employ plot devices designed to put the PCs in a pivotal role in Traladaran history. The best idea along these lines comes from Gaz 1. In this scenario, the PCs begin as agents of the Church of Traladara (perhaps after findng the Shield of Halav from Hail the Heroes); or perhaps bodyguards of Magda Marilenev. Lady Magda and other Traladaran leaders (includg Patriarch Alekseyev Nikelnevich) have been speaking out in public about the King's policies - perhaps his free aid to Thyatis, or his allowing a school of magic to be built on the sacred ruins of Krakatos. These demonstrations try the King's temper, but he is afraid of another widespread revolt should he suppress them. The speakers ontinue, flirting with sedition, but never quite crossin= g the line. Meanwhile, Oliver Jowett, Patriarch of Mirros (Church of Karameikos), dies. Sherlane Halaran, content with being a Baron in Threshold, declines the Patriarchy, and the job goes to the fanatical Alfri= c Oderbry. Oderbry campaigns for the King to declare the Church of Karameikos the one State church, and ban the Traladaran faith. Stefan has had enough o= f Traladaran agitation; Oderbry's request does not fall on deaf ears. Stefan declares the Karameikan Church supreme, and bans the Traladaran faith, though only in the capital at first. The demonstrations turn to riots; Patriarch Alekseyev must be rescued from house arrest in Mirros. Unrest spreads with word of the proclamation, and troops loyal to the King, including the Order of the Griffon, are called out to keep order. And there is a Wild Card: The Cult of Halav, dominated by Traladarans, nonetheless believes in the divinity of King Stefan. What happens next? Only your PCs can decide... Or, alternately, the PCs can join a Traladaran guerrilla band in the wild lands of the country - robbing from rich Thyatians to give to poor Traladaran families, and striking out at the King with hit-and-run missions (such as infiltrating the King's hunting lodge, as presented in X12: Skarda's Mirror). The PCs are heroes to the Traladarans, but have bounties placed on their heads by outraged nobles (and the king). If captured, they will have to escape - perhaps with the help of one of the major Clans. Should the King strike back at this Clan, violence erupts in the capital... Thyatian PCs: Thyatian PCs must struggle in the above scenarios to maintain the supremacy of their class and the rule of the King in Karameikos. They may be a noble'= s son, out to avenge their parent's humliation at the hands of Traladaran bandit/guerrillas, or members the Order of the Griffon charged with maintaining order in the capital during the unrest following the ban of the Traladaran Church. You can easily adapt B6: The Veiled Society into a modul= e for loyalist PCs, searching for a kidnapped Thyatian while trying to collec= t evidence of the treachery of the Traladaran families. Mixed-Blood PCs: "New Karameikan" characters are torn between their Thyatian and Traladaran heritage. By guiding them through the above events from both sides (perhaps they're a loyalist guard who is captured by, and begins to sympathize with, Traladaran freedom-fighters), PCs can choose a side on which to fight. Or perhaps they remain neutral, selling their services to both sides, or even working as an agent of an outside country. Karameikan Demihuman PCs: Callarii elves are likely to be loyal to King Stefan, as he maintains an all-Callarii guard unit and good relations with clan leaders. Vyalia elves will tend to empathize with the Traldaran plight, though they are very insular, and will tend toward inaction. Alfheim refugees will act in the best interests of their clan; see "Mixed-Blood PCs." Hin, Dwarves, and Gnomes will tend to favor the Traladaran side; the former because of Stefan's prolonged "ignorance" of the Black Eagle Baron's tyranny, the latter two because a free Traladara will likely translate to a free Kingdom of Highforge.=20 Outlander PCs:=20 So, your PCs are from elsewhere, but they're still interested? Many nations can hold a vested interest in the outcome of this revolt. Thyatis would lik= e to see Stefan defeated and Traladara free - and ready for reconquest. Glantri would benefit (if only in ego) from the destruction of Stefan's magic school; PC saboteurs could easily blame terrorist acts on Traladaran radicals. There are many, many scenarios which you can, as DM, envision for foreign PCs based in Karameikos. So, what are you waiting for? ;) --=20 Copyright =A9 2000, Jennifer Guerra (valerya1@yahoo.com) Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:01:43 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 11 - Correction Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I did need to correct a statement I made earlier, that the Mini-Gaz would be posted in its entirety, excepting the Culture section, which is older material. I also, for obvious reasons, left out the Image gallery section. And I refrained from posting the Folk Tales section, which although it is just a rehashing of popular Eastern European folk tales in a Mystaran setting, can provide interesting adventure hooks. So I do encourage you to visit the online version if you enjoyed the rest. Thanks for reading! Jenn -- Traladaran Mini-Gazetteer: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/traladara/ Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 19:11:33 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Stefan's Reason for Selling Out Thyatis In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/12/00 5:38 PM, ashaktur@HOTMAIL.COM wrote: > That would be a perfect example of RW statecraft and would invalidate any > need to call into questions Stefan's "morals". I do agree with James and > Aleksei that Stefan has largely been portrayed in Canon as some sort of > saint when this is far, far from the truth, and even contradicts much of the > canon material that suggests otherwise. I mean you only need to look at how > long he cast a blind eye to the abuses of Ludwig von Hendriks to know that > is true. I cannot agree with the Canon interpretation that Stefan simply > did not know of the inhumanity and deprivations imposed by the Black Eagle > on the people of his barony. Hear, hear! I've always felt "deep down" that there is much more to Stefan than his "saintly" portrayal in Canon. There are just too many exceptions to his "LG" behavior, too many incidents that he overlooked, or didn't know about, or whatever. One of the things I just posted from my Gaz - the fiction piece, "Burning Candle" - had its genesis in an afternoon of looking at K:KoA and wondering at the events of the Marilenev Rebellion, and how Stefan might be seen from the "other side." Adrian, Aleksei, and James are right-on when they point out that while a good ruler must be ruthless in the face of rebellion (see Machiavelli), one cannot commit such atrocities and still consider oneself LG. LN, yes, but not LG. A LG ruler would have arrested, tried, and executed the traitors, but not had "accidents" with the children of the rebels. Furthermore, a LG ruler would have jumped, IMHO, at the chance to eliminate evil from his house, rather than turn a blind eye to it. LG does not mean Lawful Gullible. I just don't buy it. Just my own rant. ;-) Jenn -- Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 03:18:02 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: Crater-effects on Darokin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >I've been considering something IMC when I came across something odd. Is it >just me or does Fort Lakeside on the northside of Lake Amsorak go missing >after the Meteor hits the Silver Sierras in 1006 AC ?? > >How about Bronsdale ?? > >I've found no canon references either way, but I note that Fort Lakeside is >on the "Corran Keep and Vicinity" mini-map of WOTI (1004 AC), while it is >missing on the larger map which shows the post-WOTI Known World of 1010+ AC >(though they're both the same scale)... Bronsdale is also missing on the >larger 1010 map. > >One might argue that Fort Lakeside is missing because the map is larger >scaled (1 hex = 24 miles) than the Darokin map of the Daro gaz (1 hex = 8 >miles), but Fort Lakeside is also missing from the Glantri map from G:KoM, >which is the same scale (1 hex = 8 miles) and which certainly covers the >area where Fort Lakeside should be... > >What about Bronsdale? > >Does anybody remember later references to these places, either in the PWAs >or other canon material, in the MAs, or if this has been discussed here or >by the MA teams? > >This might be important IMC, and though I'll go with my own ideas, I'd like >to hear what people have to say on the matter before I decide what to do... > >Thanks in advance. > > > - The Stalker I have noticed the same problem in the course of making the maps for my site. I think this is caused not by a meteor crash but by a mapping crash. Many of the maps of the gazzeters have contradictions between thenselves (just to give an example the road that goes south from Ethengar to Rockhome in one gazzeter does not match the road that goes north in the other). When it comes to the Mystara�s AD&D products (namely GKoM and KKoA) the mapping bugs appear even more, just so people don�t say I�m exagerating try loking at this in GKoM: 1) The colossus mounts in Glantri have a lot more "hill" areas in the original gazzeter. 2) The Village of Chandbali is way out of place 3)Well, I really just don�t need to say anything about the despiction of the broken lands Forgetting the mapping problems, it should be taken in consideration the fact that Fort Lakeside is closer to the center of the impact that many cities that have been destroyed by this impact, so it should be destroyed also. This does not apply to Bronsdale. Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:44:56 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments > Church of Traladara < This was cool. A couple comments. >> "As the Beast-King did slay Halav, so Halav slew him in kind," goes a common sermon on such solemn occasion. << Nice phrasing. 8-) >> The Order of Zirchev: These priests train in cooperation with the Vyalia elves of the Western Dymrak, << I think you mean the Callarii Elves here; they're the ones who inhabit the Western Dymrak and have good relations with the Traladarans. The Vyalia are in the Eastern Dymrak and are more insular. >> Therefore, they empowered the Patriarch of Marilenev (now Mirros) to hold authority over all Church matters. << Speaking of these 4 Patriarch guys, who are the current ones besides Alekseyev Nikelnevich? What roles do they perform in the hierarchy? >> the actions of the Traladaran crime families because these criminals act against the government - tacit support which the Church equates to that of Halav slaying the King of Lavv: committing a sin for the good of the people at large. << Heh. 8-) >> The "invaders" have countered this move in the war of faiths in the past by magically "inspiring" a Traladaran cleric to believe that King Stefan is Halav reborn. << Ooooh, interesting twist. . . Remember the Holy Chant of the Cult: "Halav-Stefan, Halav-Stefan" >> The current High Patriarch of Mirros, Alekseyev Nikelnevich, knows that eventually, the King may ban the Church of Traladara outright, in favor of his own State church; in that case, the formidable old cleric will, as once did his father, take to the battlefield in defense of his faith. << Does that mean his father was also his predecesor as Patriarch? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:27:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 3 - Traladaran Clans (long) >> Order of the Golden Sword << This looked cool, no real comments otherwise except that the late 5th century seemed, to me, kind of early for an order of religious knights to form. >> Traladaran Clans << A few comments here. >> all were fairly wealthy, before they were crippled by Thyatian taxation. << Thyatian taxation & presence wasn't previously given as being that crippling and onerous. That's more of an observation, though, since I know you're taking a different tack on some things. >> Andrios Volaga Clan capitulated to Baron Kelvin's rule. Magda Marilenev's family << I was confused by the reference to Magda; does that mean she's a member of the Andrios family? >> Nikelnevich Mirros Alekseyev is current Patriarch of Church of Traladara; father Viktor (also Patriarch) killed in Marilenev Rebellion << Ahh, so that answers one of my earlier questions. 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 23:37:23 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Cynidicea Project?? > >What happened to the Cynidicea Team? Have they ever published the >planned >Gaz?? > >Iulius Sergius Scaevola Ummm...sort of. We went through a fair chunk of it in detail (scanning for typos, etc.), but (at least at my end) Real Life (nnnnooooooooooo!!!!) reared its ugly head once more, in the form of last-minute panic to meet evil university-imposed deadlines.* The long and the short of it is, it's done, I just have to find the time to post it to the MML, after skimming it once more to try to catch any other big errors that might be lurkng in there. Geoff *Which will not leave me in peace until around Nov. 25th or so, after which I will be a withered shell of my former self *violins playing in background* -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 00:04:25 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 4 - Andros Marilenev (long) > NPC: Andros Marilenev >> A series of long conversations with Magda further enlightened Andros to the plight of the Traladaran people - his people. Finally, Andros determined that he would not only claim the title Lord Marilenev, as was his right, but also reclaim the independence of Traladara. << Ahh, a "royal pretender". I love pretenders. 8-) >> A Sampling of Traladaran Wizard Spells << >> River of Blood << This one seemed a little. . .well, grody, if not downright questionable, for an Order of Paladins, to me at least. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:08:47 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Gaucho Prestige class attempt In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:21 11/12/00 -0600, Ranma Al'Thor wrote: >Fighters do get extra attacks and Gauchos don't, so far as I can tell from >that chart, though. All 3E characters get an extra attack for every +6 attack bonus. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:35:04 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jordan Murrin wrote: > > > I'd love to vote, but I don't know enough about each > nation. (Except that I'm suspicious of all things > Alphatian!) Another vote for Thyatis, then....hey, what? Hey who are you? (about thousand wizards appear in Scaevola's room. What? Isn't there space enough? Well, they are WIZARDS, you know) [Blam! Blam! Blam!] Ok...I was joking, I was joking, believe me!!!!!! 8-) > :} > (A lurker) > Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius; Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 07:50:40 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Brant Casavant Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hrm... I'd have to say my favorite nation is Thyatis. I also like Darokin and Glantri, but in the end, Thyatis wins out. Hail Caesar! - Brant ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 04:59:42 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Crater-effects on Darokin? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:40 PM 11/12/00 +0100, you wrote: >I've been considering something IMC when I came across something odd. Is it just >me or does Fort Lakeside on the northside of Lake Amsorak go missing after the >Meteor hits the Silver Sierras in 1006 AC ?? Check PWA 1010 or 1011 (I think it's in 1010). There's a reference to humanoid raiding from the Great Crater around Fort Lakeside, so it's evidently still there (although the maps from WotI seem to indicate it was destroyed.) >Does anybody remember later references to these places, either in the PWAs or >other canon material, in the MAs, or if this has been discussed here or by the MA >teams? I used Fort Lakeside, based on the above reference, in the Great Migration events of 1014. I'd originally written it as a ruin, but then noted the reference in the almanacs (the "canon" ones) and so changed it. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:27:42 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:35:04 Caroletti wrote: >Jordan Murrin wrote: > >> >> >> I'd love to vote, but I don't know enough about each >> nation. (Except that I'm suspicious of all things >> Alphatian!) > >Another vote for Thyatis, then....hey, what? Hey who are you? >(about thousand wizards appear in Scaevola's room. What? Isn't there >space >enough? Well, they are WIZARDS, you know) >[Blam! Blam! Blam!] >Ok...I was joking, I was joking, believe me!!!!!! 8-) > [Stalker to Scaevola's dead corpse]: "Apology accepted, Captain Scaevola..." ;) And btw, I don't have quite *that* many split personalities :) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:08:18 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Campaign Cartographer for Mac? In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/12/00 5:53 PM, xen@VISI.COM wrote: > For my mapping I do it all in Photoshop (not a really affordable solution) You're telling me! > Deneba's Canvas is the best of the apps that combines a decent bit-map and > vector program in one (IMO), but it seems to slog through monster size maps > that I like to work on, like 50-100MB size files. Well, I'm just looking for something to do regular-sized map of smallish campaign areas (civilization is prety much in city-states in our world), so I'll have to check this one out. Thanks! Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 12:08:19 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/12/00 9:44 PM, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM wrote: > This was cool. A couple comments. Glad you liked it! :-) >>> "As the Beast-King did slay Halav, so Halav slew him in kind," goes a common >>> sermon on such solemn occasion. > > Nice phrasing. 8-) Thank you. :-)) > I think you mean the Callarii Elves here; they're the ones who inhabit the > Western Dymrak and have good relations with the Traladarans. The Vyalia are in > the Eastern Dymrak and are more insular. Actually, I think that we're in agreement here, though our phrasing is different. >From the perspective of solely Traladara, your phrasing is correct: that the Vyalia elves live in the Eastern Dymrak, along the Thyatian border, and some Callarii elves live in the Eastern Dymrak, closer to Kelvin. However, from a perspective which includes Traladara as well as Thyatis, etc., the Eastern Dymrak lies within Thyatian borders (i.e., County Vyalia), and the Western Dymrak is that larger portion within Traladaran/Karameikan borders. That portion is mostly inhabited by Vyalia elves as well, with some Callarii elves living at the far western fringe. The majority of Callarii elves live in the Radlebb Wood. (See K:KoA, pp. 7 and 26.) Basically, it's a question of my perspective. When we were playing in Mystara, our campaign was based in (County) Vyalia, so I got used to referring to everything west of that (the Traladaran side) as the Western Dymrak. Sorry if that was confusing to readers. > Speaking of these 4 Patriarch guys, who are the current ones besides Alekseyev > Nikelnevich? What roles do they perform in the hierarchy? I hadn't detailed them, but it's a good idea for a future expansion. I'll think about 'em. >>> The "invaders" have countered this move in the war of faiths in the past by >>> magically "inspiring" a Traladaran cleric to believe that King Stefan is >>> Halav reborn. > > Ooooh, interesting twist. . . Thought you'd like that. ;-) I have just never been able to justify to myself why in the world a Traladaran cleric would come to believe that an invader was a *Traladaran* hero reborn, _unless_ he was somehow "inspired." It makes perfect sense from Stefan's point of view: throughout history, conquerors have used identification with the religious views and myths of the conquered to bolster their position. > Remember the Holy Chant of the Cult: "Halav-Stefan, Halav-Stefan" nauseum, with a glazed, beatific look in one's eyes> :-)) A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was Petra? ;-) >>> The current High Patriarch of Mirros, Alekseyev Nikelnevich, knows that >>> eventually, the King may ban the Church of Traladara outright, in favor of >>> his own State church; in that case, the formidable old cleric will, as once >>> did his father, take to the battlefield in defense of his faith. > > Does that mean his father was also his predecesor as Patriarch? Yes, I intended that Alekseyev's father, who was killed in the Rebellion (see K:KoA as well as "Burning Candle"), was Patriarch, followed by one or two others, and then Alekseyev himself. Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:21:47 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Cult of Halav and Olivia (was Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:08 11/13/2000 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: >A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was >Petra? ;-) Nah. She's clearly the agent of some sinister Immortal trying to prevent him from reclaiming his true heritage ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 10:42:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Getting rid of a character non-permanently Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In my Karameikos campaign, one of my players has to bow out for the forseeable future due to real life stuff. (Hate it when that happens.) As he and his character add a lot, we don't want to close the door on him ever coming back and I need a way to take him off stage in a non-permanent way. He and another player are running characters who are brothers from Midwood. Unbeknownst to them, years ago, their father left a woman in Mirros upon discovering she was mixed up with the wrong sort of people. Now a member of the Iron Ring, and the leader of one of their cells, she's also given birth to a daughter who is a half-sister to the two brothers. My plan had been to have the one brother be kidnapped and brainwashed to eventually attack his brother and companions but I can't think of a mechanism to do this that won't derail the campaign as the other PCs, quite rightly, tear up the country trying to find out where the snatched character has gone. Any ideas? The mother is an accomplished poisoner and assassin and poses as an apothecary in Mirros. The daughter is a sleeper agent thief working at an inn in Krakatos run by the brothers' aunt. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:12:31 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Re: Poll: What is your favourite nation? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > >Another vote for Thyatis, then....hey, what? Hey who are you? > >(about thousand wizards appear in Scaevola's room. What? Isn't there > >space > >enough? Well, they are WIZARDS, you know) > >[Blam! Blam! Blam!] > >Ok...I was joking, I was joking, believe me!!!!!! 8-) > > > > [Stalker to Scaevola's dead corpse]: > "Apology accepted, Captain Scaevola..." ;) > Hmm...I had a bad dream tonight, but not THAT bad...8-) > And btw, I don't have quite *that* many split personalities :) > > - The Stalker > Everything may happen in Nightmares, you know....muhahahahahahah! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 20:27:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Organization: scarole@tin.it Subject: Chronicles of Nentsun- Part Five: Recent History (not TOO long) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CHAPTER FIVE: RECENT HISTORY In the last two hundred and eight years, no major event shaked the fertile soils of the Inner Circle, while the Outer one slowly recovered, and new settlers came to live there. Came a clan of Shiye Lawr elves who called themselves the Iliifari clan. While most of the Shiye Lawr elves who left Alphatia were directed to Norwold, the Iliifari thought it better to leave eastwards. Passing through Esterhold, they wanted to reach a place where no Alphatians were present. The Iliifari found the Outer Circle of Nentsun to be a good place to start their lives from again. Obliterating whole orc clans from the southern hills and forests, 1,300 elves made room for theirselves in the Outer Circle (742 AC). They were immediately befriended by the humans: the orcs� enemies were their friends, although they mistook them at first for a race of pale and frail humans. It took a lot of time for the humans to understand the difference between the two races, and there was misunderstanding in the following years, but in the end the Iliifari and the humans of the Outer Circle became somehow more and more friends�or at least, the humans, whose generations passed one after the other, begin to think of the elves as friends and neighbours. The elves didn�t trust completely the humans, but believed them to be more reliable than the Alphatian aristocrats. In 949 AC, the elf Skaarn became the first non-human Master in Nentsunian history. In 976 AC, the elven King, Vidaar, was slain mysteriously in the forest. The elves blamed an human adventuring party led by the rakasta Shikimura. The rakastas hadn�t accepted the elves like the humans did, and an ambitious elf named Rifilel told the elves that they should war against the humans and rakastas, because they wanted to erase their presence form Nentsun. Rifilel was a complete paranoid, and he believed fully in what he said. When Skaarn voiced his concern, saying that he suspected that it was Rifilel, and not the rakasta, who had killed their king, Rifilel called upon all the most paranoid Shiye-Lawr attitudes of the Iliifari, telling the clan that Skaarn was a traitor because he had lived among the humans, and wanted to exploit the forest for the perverse humans. The Iliifari was uncertain about the situation. In the end they decided to let the clan council judge the matter. With a small majority, the council voted against Rifilel. The elf lost the final bonds to sanity and went on a frenzy, trying to kill Skaarn and other elves, randomly. He was then captured and jailed. While the council thought about the matter, the elf hung himself. This was the last significant event of Nentsun�s history till year 1000 AC. The Outer Circle is now a mostly civilized land, although some hills and forest regions are still dangerous and settled by green orcs. The Inner Circle is richer, however, and there is still some tension between the people living in the two areas. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 13:38:54 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Tome Cover - help! Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi again everyone, I'm writing because we don't have a cover artist for this next Tome of Mystara! So I'm asking for anyone who might be interested in submitting something to please write me! The art doens't have to be ready now, just an idea is fine. Thanks, Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:31:00 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >> Until that point there was no advantage is Stefan emphasizing his > autonomity. When the Grand Duchy of Kamakeikos was first formed, many > nations still regarded it as part of the Thyatian Empire, and it was in Stefans interests to keep up this charade in those fledgling years. << > > There; you just admitted that Stefan did everything he did, not for reasons of honor and principle, but for reasons of self-interest. Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, but it was many years until anyone listened. If those nations were too afraid to challenge the fledgling Karameikos, because they thought it to be a member state of the Thyatian Empire, then it can only be a bonus to the fledgling Karameikos. There is proof that Stefan did continually try to correct these misconceptions, as by 1000 AC many Known World nations had established an embassy there, and recognised Karameikos as an independant nation. > Yes, "back-stabbing politics" indeed; Stefan is a master of back-stabbing politics: as you pointed out, he used the Empire as long as it served him to, pretending to continue to be Thincol's "friend" so that Thincol would go along with the charade - then, when it no longer served his interests, he sold out the Empire, betrayed his friend, and sent out his propagandists (yourself) to retroactively justify his actions. May I point out that Thincol betrayed the spirit of the deal and their friendship first. No sooner than Stefan had boarded ship for his new, autonomous nation, than Thincol began systematically raping Stefans ancestoral lands, until nothing was left of value. Do you think that Stefan would have been pleased to have seen the fate of his ancestral lands at the hands of his so called "friend"? I think not. If Thincol had been a true friend, he would have simply appointed a good and just governor to those lands, and would have not abused Stefans lands so first. So in light of this, why would Stefan honour a friendship that Thincol obviously did not value? Even though Thincol had agreed for Karameikos to be autonomous, he did secretly expect for Stefan to "tow the line" when he asked for aid (not that expected to be!). This was more down to his arrogance, than anything else. After all nothing had been agreed on this when Stefan traded his lands for what is now Karameikos. > Solmyr got everything right in his comments on your polemic. The Master of Hule is good at these sort of self-serving rationalizations, too, as he mentioned. I suppose we could argue who's better at it. I might say Stefan, because he, unaccountably, still keeps a reputation for virtue and even heroism dispite his many misdeeds, but some might say Hosadus, because he has to overcome his bad reputation in working his plots, and generally does so, while Stefan is more lucky (and fortunate in attracting apologists, like flies on. . .) than skilled. There is a big difference between Stefan Karameikos and the Master of Hule. What the Master of Hule does, he does in his own personal power and self interest. The Masters apologists try vainly to disguise the evil that motivates him. On the other hand, what Stefan does, he does for the good of his nation, not for personal power. There is no need to justify his actions, so Stefan has no need for apologists. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 22:34:24 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Paul Benfield Subject: Hin and the Immortals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, I know this has probably been discussed before on the list but what Immortals do the Hin of the Five Shires and elsewhere follow? Given the immense influence Immortals have on Mystara surely the Hin would have some spiritual leaders as well.... Do they have their own Immortals and do they follow any of the other more universal Immortals? I've got the Five Shires but that hardly provides any real clues. >From my own particular interest I'd like to know who a 3 edition hin cleric would follow; but any info based on any rules would be great. Cheers Paul Benfield http://www.geocities.com/pab02 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:34:07 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 4 - Andros Marilenev (long) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/12/00 11:04 PM, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM wrote: >> NPC: Andros Marilenev > > Ahh, a "royal pretender". I love pretenders. 8-) > :-)) >>> River of Blood > > This one seemed a little. . .well, grody, if not downright questionable, for > an Order of Paladins, to me at least. Grody, yes. :-) Questionable, I don't agree. The spell is not used directly by the order, but was rather created by a wizard working with the Order, to attack the enemy en masse. This attack takes place *after* a battle (as there must be blood already spilled), and so there is no concern about attacking the foe "dishonorably." I suppose the objection here, then, is that it uses blood, rather than water, sand (the spell was based on "River of Sand," IIRC, from the Wizard's Spell Compendiums), etc.? I dont really see why that would be a problem - I've never regarded paladins (crusading warriors) as being particularly squeamish about blood, especially when it belongs to a justified enemy, or the "infidel." Or perhaps I misunderstand your objections? Please help me out here - I'm eager to understand your point. Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 14:33:38 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Hin and the Immortals In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:34 11/13/2000 -0000, Paul Benfield wrote: >I know this has probably been discussed before on the list but what >Immortals do the Hin of the Five Shires and elsewhere follow? Given the >immense influence Immortals have on Mystara surely the Hin would have some >spiritual leaders as well.... They don't have spiritual leaders. Their Immortals -- whom they call the High Heroes -- empower a prestige class called the Hin Masters, but they're essentially druidic characters devoted to protecting the Five Shires, not tending to their spiritual life. >>>From my own particular interest I'd like to know who a 3 edition hin cleric >would follow; but any info based on any rules would be great. IMC, there are no Five Shires hin clerics although, as you can see in the gazetteer, the Church of Karameikos is eager to convert the hin. You could certainly make a halfling cleric of that faith. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:53:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mzilikazi Subject: Re: Getting rid of a character non-permanently In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001113104224.007bccc0@lby3.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How about this for a suggestion? It is an adapted version of something I used once. Of course I'm not familiar with the character in question, and wouldn't know if it was consistent with his personality. It is probably most fair to pull this one on that character after the player has stepped down, and play it with him as a NPC, as it will require a lot of dictating his actions. *** The brother in question meets and falls in love with this thief (an even more interesting twist would be if that thief was in fact his half-sister, which would make a very cool situation when they eventually find out. This of course is dependent on neither the characters or their aunt knowing about it, which was my impression). She, against his inital wishes, joins the PCs on some adventure, in which she is kidnapped by an evil priestly order or somehing. They do however rescue her, although she is nearly killed, and crippled in some way that the priests the characters probably take her to are not able to cure. This is because it is immortal magic from the artifact in possession of the priest that escaped without the characters knowing it. She will not be able to go on adventures again (until maybe some time in the future the characters find the real reason and recovers the artifact). The character in question then decides to give up adventuring again to move somewhere secluded with her. From there he can easily be kidnapped by whoever is supposed to do it, without the other characters ever finding out. Maybe they even just kidnap his new wife and blackmail him into coming to them voluntarily on fear of her being harmed. *** I don't know if it was something like this you were asking for, and as I said, I have no idea if this is consistent with your campaign and characters. - Count Mzilikazi ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:46:38 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz: 3 - Traladaran Clans In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/12/00 10:27 PM, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM wrote: > This looked cool, no real comments otherwise except that the late 5th century > seemed, to me, kind of early for an order of religious knights to form. Perhaps. I really wanted for there to have been a heyday for the organized Traladaran Church at some point in the distant past, so I didn't have much leeway. Though I don't suggest that the earliest incarnation of the Order had anything like plate armor or the like; I was likening them to the earliest appearances of the Order of Santiago and such, which were really just armed brotherhood who protected pilgrims on their journeys. >>> Traladaran Clans << > > A few comments here Okey-dokey. ;-) > >>> all were fairly wealthy, before they were crippled by Thyatian taxation. << > > Thyatian taxation & presence wasn't previously given as being that crippling > and onerous. That's more of an observation, though, since I know you're taking > a different tack on some things. Oh, yes, this is certainly an instance where my "different tack" comes into play. :-) I chose to treat Thyatian involvement in Traladara (pre-Stefan) as having a mercantilistic base. Thyatis regarded Traldara (and rightfully so) as existing for the benefit of the Motherland. While this would have had virtually no effect on the average Traladaran (thus leading to the Canonical description of the relatively benign aspect of the pre-Stefan years), it could at the same time been hard on the wealthier families, whose resources were drained away by Imperial taxation and resource-reaping. It's just the way colonies are treated; it was no judgment against Thyatis, in particular. >>> Andrios Volaga Clan capitulated to Baron Kelvin's rule. Magda >>> Marilenev's family << > > I was confused by the reference to Magda; does that mean she's a member of the > Andrios family? Yes, this was given in K:KoA's family trees (p. 80). > >>> Nikelnevich Mirros Alekseyev is current Patriarch of Church of >>> Traladara; father Viktor (also Patriarch) killed in Marilenev Rebellion << > > Ahh, so that answers one of my earlier questions. 8-) > :-) Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:48:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Cult of Halav and Olivia (was Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001113102147.007cf4d0@lby3.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/13/00 12:21 PM, lby3@LBY3.COM wrote: > At 12:08 11/13/2000 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: > >> A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was >> Petra? ;-) > > Nah. She's clearly the agent of some sinister Immortal trying to prevent > him from reclaiming his true heritage ... :-)) No, I think she's more of a disguised fiend, whispering in his ear of dreams of greatness beyond this mortal coil...tempting him to take his "rightful" place among the Immortals... (Anyone recall that pic in the recent "Fiends" issue of Dragon, with the evil seductress whispering to the hapless king?) ;-)~ Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:02:41 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis >> Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, but it was many years until anyone listened. << I can't tell here whether you're wrong by accident or wrong on purpose. It would be more accurate to say "Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, but it was many years until he bothered to." - remember, if you will, that he DELIBERATELY named Karameikos a "Grand Duchy" in order to CREATE misconceptions - not to "correct" them. >> There is proof that Stefan did continually try to correct these misconceptions, as by 1000 AC many Known World nations had established an embassy there, and recognised Karameikos as an independant nation. << That's not proof that they did anything of the kind; a Grand Duchy can receive foreign envoys and still be part of the Empire. It doesn't say that they recognized Karameikos as an independent nation. If they did, it's only because they saw through the charade that Stefan TRIED to create - again, the misleading impression HE tried to leave - not because he "tried to correct" that misconception, which is just a lie and a distortion. But I'm getting used to that from you propagandists. >> No sooner than Stefan had boarded ship for his new, autonomous nation, than Thincol began systematically raping Stefans ancestoral lands, until nothing was left of value. Do you think that Stefan would have been pleased to have seen the fate of his ancestral lands at the hands of his so called "friend"? I think not. << Stefan didn't give a RATS ASS about his ancestral responsibilities. If he gave a damn about Machetos, he wouldn't have abandoned it. Indeed, this just shows what an irresponsible scumbag Stefan is. >> There is a big difference between Stefan Karameikos and the Master of Hule. What the Master of Hule does, he does in his own personal power and self interest. The Masters apologists try vainly to disguise the evil that motivates him. << That's exactly what Stefan did. >> On the other hand, what Stefan does, he does for the good of his nation, not for personal power. << Again, if Stefan was motivated AT ALL by what is good for "his people", then he wouldn't have abandoned his responsibilities to the people of Machetos when THEY were "his people". As for Stefan doing what is good for "his nation", again we go back to his irresponsible and downright negative apointment of vassals - first, he crushes the local leaders of "his nation", then replaces them with his cronies, regardless of the fitness of those cronies to rule responsibly (and several, not just the notorious Ludwig, prove to be bad for the locals, but good for Stefan and his entorage of invaders) - then he leaves said persons in power, washing his hands of any responsibility to be a good steward of his lands and keep his vassals in line. >> There is no need to justify his actions, so Stefan has no need for apologists. << Again, it's more accurate to say that Stefan's actions can't be justified, because they are so disgraceful. The fact that some people still insist on seeing him as a good ruler just shows how blind they really are. Their efforts to toss out whatever they don't like in a desperate attempt to "prove" that Stefan cares for others rather than being driven by his own narcissistic ambitions are so weak that I'm almost embarassed to bother to refute them. But gullibility springs eternal, so I have persisted. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 23:10:01 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Leonardo Damon Giuliani Subject: Re: Bargle Death Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Il Sun, 12 November 2000, Evil Genius ha scritto: > Sounds interesting. Please tell it, if you have the time to write it. 8-) Since that was a very long adventure, I will made a small summary of what is really happened. About in the year 1002, Bargle the Infamous, was making experiments to discover the secret of the long lives of the elves. to manage in this, he and a group of soldier of the Black Eagle Barony, went in a small elf village in the Radlebb's Forest, destroyed it and kidnapped some yang elves to accomplish his experiment. The village was the birth place of Estaish, an elf who was a friend of my adventurer's group and his girlfriend was one of the kidnapped elves. Omitting the travel to the dungeon of Bargle and the perils that we faced to save the elves, when we find Bargle, I said, he was expecting us while the two famous displacer beasts. With a lot of fortune we manage to charm one of them (the other was slayed by us). The charmed beast attacked the astonished mage and slayed him after a cruel battle.... This is the fact :-) AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:26:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Cult of Halav and Olivia (was Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was Petra? ;-) > > Nah. She's clearly the agent of some sinister Immortal trying to prevent him from reclaiming his true heritage ...<< True heritage as a feckless incompetent? Olivia may be cold, but she's who's responsible for whatever successes the rulers of Karameikos may have accomplished (as opposed to having fall into their laps in the form of lucky breaks). I shudder to think what Karameikos would be like if it wasn't for Olivia - and fans of the nation, I'd think, would too. Putting it all in the hands of the dunderheaded, incompetent, and narcisistic Stefan would be a bad move. Who do you think is responsible for the fact that most Karameikan ministers are reasonably competent and loyal? Stefan? Puh-leeze - we know what his choices were like before Olivia showed up. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:39:52 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Cult of Halav and Olivia (was Traladara Mini-GazChurchComments) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 16:48:28 Jennifer Guerra wrote: >On 11/13/00 12:21 PM, lby3@LBY3.COM wrote: > >> At 12:08 11/13/2000 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: >> >>> A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was >>> Petra? ;-) >> >> Nah. She's clearly the agent of some sinister Immortal trying to prevent >> him from reclaiming his true heritage ... > >:-)) > >No, I think she's more of a disguised fiend, whispering in his ear of dreams >of greatness beyond this mortal coil...tempting him to take his "rightful" >place among the Immortals... (Anyone recall that pic in the recent "Fiends" >issue of Dragon, with the evil seductress whispering to the hapless king?) >;-)~ > Lady Macbeth would be so proud! :) - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 19:46:55 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Comments >> Basically, it's a question of my perspective. When we were playing in Mystara, our campaign was based in (County) Vyalia, so I got used to referring to everything west of that (the Traladaran side) as the Western Dymrak. Sorry if that was confusing to readers. << I think perhaps that could be helpfully clarified, since most readers probably aren't going to have the same perspective as your campaign. Personally, I divide the Dymrak at the Rugalov (regardless that it lays within Karameikos or not) - that part of it which is east of the river I consider "eastern Dymrak" and that part which lays to the west of the river as "western Dymrak" - to me, that seems like the more natural dividing line. >> I have just never been able to justify to myself why in the world a Traladaran cleric would come to believe that an invader was a *Traladaran* hero reborn, _unless_ he was somehow "inspired." << Or unless they had absolutely no self-respect and were utter and complete drones. I can see them comming to accept Stefan's regime, but hero-worshiping what amounts to an interloper/foreign regime and considering it's leader equal to their greatest Immortal seems. . ."unlikely" - unless, as in your portrayal, the interlopers themselves have tried to foster such a Cult of Personality around the Maximum Leader/Great Helmsman themselves, through various subterfuges. >> It makes perfect sense from Stefan's point of view: throughout history, conquerors have used identification with the religious views and myths of the conquered to bolster their position. << Yep. >> A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was Petra? << Let me put it this way: I'd believe she's Petra before I'd believe Stefan is Halav. Unless Halav was a hubristic egoist and moral simpleton unable to evaluate character. But I don't think of Halav that way, so Stefan can't really be Halav. The idea is actually absurd - as well as insulting to the Traladarans, infantilizing them. Re. "River of Blood" >> I suppose the objection here, then, is that it uses blood, rather than water, sand (the spell was based on "River of Sand," IIRC, from the Wizard's Spell Compendiums), etc.? << Well, I guess in some part it depends upon one's evaluation of the morality of Necromantic "killing spells" and the like. I called it "questionable" rather than "evil", since I don't fully agree with, for example, the Complete Necromancer's Handbooks evaluation of "Black Necromancy" and the like - but I still see it as arguably not such a hot thing for an Order of Paladins to effectively endorse (again, as with my opinion of Stefan - standing asside and doing nothing but benifiting from something questionable done in your name/by one of your supporters isn't the action of a Virtuous Hero; Paladins can't just turn away and benifit repetedly and consider their hands entirely clean, just because their supporter/friend is casting rather than they themselves. Now, good isn't stupid, but one has to draw a line somewhere). Anyhow, I just wondered if it was questionable; I didn't call it evil as such. The Order: >> I really wanted for there to have been a heyday for the organized Traladaran Church at some point in the distant past, so I didn't have much leeway. << Ok. >> Though I don't suggest that the earliest incarnation of the Order had anything like plate armor or the like; I was likening them to the earliest appearances of the Order of Santiago and such, which were really just armed brotherhood who protected pilgrims on their journeys. << Speaking of which, to what sites would the pilgrims go (other than the obvious ones, I mean)? >> I chose to treat Thyatian involvement in Traladara (pre-Stefan) as having a mercantilistic base. Thyatis regarded Traldara (and rightfully so) as existing for the benefit of the Motherland. While this would have had virtually no effect on the average Traladaran (thus leading to the Canonical description of the relatively benign aspect of the pre-Stefan years), it could at the same time been hard on the wealthier families, whose resources were drained away by Imperial taxation and resource-reaping. << Ok, was just wondering and the explanation you provided helps to understand the "backstory." As Professor Berman (Bristol U) says, "to know is to understand" Does make me wonder about the particular involvement of the Vyalians, though; the Vyalians, overall, seem more sympathetic to Thyatis & Thyatians in general (but "insular" to Karameikos) - while I would otherwise expect the Callarii to be, perhaps, more supportive of a "Traladaran Liberation Front". Is there a reason why the Callarii are more supportive, it seems, of Stefan's regime and not as sympathetic to the Traladaran cause? Are the Vyalia supporting the Traladarans because of Stefan's policies, or have they, in this, turned against Thyatis in general? >> Yes, this was given in K:KoA's family trees (p. 80). << Ahh, ok. I hadn't bothered to check 8-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:47:28 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeffrey Willis Subject: Re: Getting rid of a character non-permanently MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simple... have him die. :) In a very non-obvious 'soap-opera' way. :) Make sure all the PC's see him die. It's right there in front of them. preferrably in some way where he can't be ressurected. (taking a note from Destiny of Kings) perhaps a modified arrow of life stealing who's poison defies all attempts at ressurection. Then later, you could have the arrow turn up somehow, just as the 'right' person comes along who knows how to unlock the soul from it. Then at the end of the adventure to unlock the soul and prepare the special ressurection spell so he can be restored when he returns... without that one individual (perhaps the one who created the arrow) they cannot unlock the spell. That gives them some interesting side quests (tracking down who made the arrow) which they can do as they go about their normal adventures. And since the man could be anywhere, they don't have to feel tied down to a specific area... and in fact, the man's trail can be a great adventure hook to lead them where you want to go for the next adventure. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 02:04:18 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Crater-effects on Darokin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 03:18:02 Ricardo Matheus wrote: (snipped my original post) > > I have noticed the same problem in the course of making the maps for my >site. I think this is caused not by a meteor crash but by a mapping crash. >Many of the maps of the gazzeters have contradictions between thenselves >(just to give an example the road that goes south from Ethengar to Rockhome >in one gazzeter does not match the road that goes north in the other). > That's true, though I always thought this is was mostly because the towns and cities of the bordering nations simply hadn't been established yet... (Yes, the gazetteers are really that old!) > When >it comes to the Mystara4s AD&D products (namely GKoM and KKoA) the mapping >bugs appear even more, Really? I might be right. I never noticed, myself.. > just so people don4t say I4m exagerating try loking >at this in GKoM: >1) The colossus mounts in Glantri have a lot more "hill" areas in the >original gazzeter. Weren't those caused by the Meteor impact? A lot of the Silver Sierras were knocked down that way. >2) The Village of Chandbali is way out of place Hmmm. That's an odd one, yes. I'll take your word for us, as I don't have the Glantri gaz (I have the G:KoM, though) >3)Well, I really just don4t need to say anything about the despiction of the >broken lands > Huh? > Forgetting the mapping problems, it should be taken in consideration the >fact that Fort Lakeside is closer to the center of the impact that many >cities that have been destroyed by this impact, so it should be destroyed >also. This does not apply to Bronsdale. > Okay. I would tend to agree, but Andrew Theisen show us otherwise... >Darkblood -- On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 04:59:42 Andrew Theisen wrote: >At 07:40 PM 11/12/00 +0100, you wrote: >>I've been considering something IMC when I came across something odd. Is >it just >me or does Fort Lakeside on the northside of Lake Amsorak go >missing after the >Meteor hits the Silver Sierras in 1006 AC ?? > >Check PWA 1010 or 1011 (I think it's in 1010). There's a reference to >humanoid raiding from the Great Crater around Fort Lakeside, so it's >evidently still there (although the maps from WotI seem to indicate it was >destroyed.) > Could it have been destroyed and then rebuilt on the same ruins? That could give me some excellent adventuring perspectives IMC... (In that case I'd have the Corun House take over the management of the Fort as it's being rebuilt). Is there a map of Fort Lakeside anywhere? Did anybody make one themselves (I hate making maps!) >>Does anybody remember later references to these places, either in the PWAs >or >other canon material, in the MAs, or if this has been discussed here or >by the MA >teams? > >I used Fort Lakeside, based on the above reference, in the Great Migration >events of 1014. I'd originally written it as a ruin, but then noted the >reference in the almanacs (the "canon" ones) and so changed it. > Okay. How likely do you think it is that it would have been destroyed and turned into a ruin by the meteor and then rebuilt later to counter the goblinoid threat from the crater? One reason why I'm asking about this, and assuming that Bronsdale might also have suffered is that on the 1012 AC Glantri map from G:KoM, it's quite clear that a larger number of former Glantrian settlements have become ruins, such as Nathrat and Camp Huledain/Huldain Camp (??) which are a fair distance from the Crater, but which seem to have been destroyed by the impact anyway. Thus I wonder if the same could be true for Bronsdale. Or how about Fort Fletcher for that matter? - The Stalker Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:32:00 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:08 PM 11/13/00 -0600, you wrote: > >I have just never been able to justify to myself why in the world a >Traladaran cleric would come to believe that an invader was a *Traladaran* >hero reborn, _unless_ he was somehow "inspired." It makes perfect sense from >Stefan's point of view: throughout history, conquerors have used >identification with the religious views and myths of the conquered to >bolster their position. Of course, there's strong evidence that Sergyev (founder of the cult) is just a madman. Or, alternatively, the source of the Cult's spells may be the ultimate responsible party (perhaps an Entropic trying to play on the dissension between the Thyatians and Traladarans, and not tied to Stefan or the Church of Traladara in any way). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:47:31 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: Cult of Halav (Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001113173200.00805b60@pop.wans.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 17:32 11/13/2000 -0800, Andrew Theisen wrote: >Of course, there's strong evidence that Sergyev (founder of the cult) is >just a madman. That's always been my take on it. >Or, alternatively, the source of the Cult's spells may be the ultimate >responsible party (perhaps an Entropic trying to play on the dissension >between the Thyatians and Traladarans, and not tied to Stefan or the Church >of Traladara in any way). Well, there's multiple reasons an Immortal might grant the Cult spells. The simplest is just as a joke. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 18:06:28 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jordan Murrin Subject: Re: Freeport Pirate prestige class MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > (Also, I haven't looked at the Freeport accessory > yet, but I'm thinking it > might be tweaked somewhat and dropped right into the > Shadow Coast > somewhere- or Ne'er-Do-Well. Anyone else looked at > it yet?) > > As a matter of fact, I have. Yes, it would indeed fit well into a swashbuckling campaign. As the name suggests, it is set in a 'freeport' where the first encounter is a press gang. Another encounter involves taking on the crew of a pirate ship (while it is in port.) It is meant as a 1st level module (my 1st level PCs had no trouble with it) so you may want to beef it up a bit for an on-going campaign. ===== ...und wenn sie nicht gestorben sind, dann leben sie noch heute. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 03:19:22 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: Crater-effects on Darokin? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed (snipped my original post) >From: The Stalker >Weren't those caused by the Meteor impact? A lot of the Silver Sierras were >knocked down that way. I don�t think so. The Colossus Mounts are farther from the impact point than Glantri City itself. Any impact capable of altering landscape so far away would have destroyed the whole Glantri (or at leat Glantri City which is closer) > >3)Well, I really just don4t need to say anything about the despiction of >the > >broken lands > > > >Huh? What I was trying to say is that the Broken Lands are shown as a big "broken or barren lands" area, where in fact there are plateaus and cliffs and two forts.What I�m begining to figure out is that most of the 8 miles/hex maps are only acurate inside the region they intend to despict (Glantri in the case of GKoM). Looking oustide the intended region borders may lead to contradictions or most of the times to lack of details (this also happens to Ethengar khanates in the map of GKoM - the original gazetteer shows various qualities of pasture in the map). This is one of the reasons I�m trying to build a huge non-selfcontradicting map of Mystara. > >Could it have been destroyed and then rebuilt on the same ruins? That could >give me some excellent adventuring perspectives IMC... (In that case I'd >have the Corun House take over the management of the Fort as it's being >rebuilt). Is there a map of Fort Lakeside anywhere? Did anybody make one >themselves (I hate making maps!) > >Okay. How likely do you think it is that it would have been destroyed and >turned into a ruin by the meteor and then rebuilt later to counter the >goblinoid threat from the crater? > >One reason why I'm asking about this, and assuming that Bronsdale might >also have suffered is that on the 1012 AC Glantri map from G:KoM, it's >quite clear that a larger number of former Glantrian settlements have >become ruins, such as Nathrat and Camp Huledain/Huldain Camp (??) which are >a fair distance from the Crater, but which seem to have been destroyed by >the impact anyway. Thus I wonder if the same could be true for Bronsdale. >Or how about Fort Fletcher for that matter? > IMO the three places have been afected. But Bronsdale recovered first (small villages are easy to rebuild than heavy fortified stone buildings). In fact I incorporated this on my maps (which are dated AC 1010 with no time for full reconstruction). Fort Fletcher is shown as ruins at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/s1.htm Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 03:44:48 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Byzantine/Spanish Units Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I was recently wondering about unit names for Savage Barony military units. Clearly the inspiration for much of the Savage baronies is Spanish and Portuguese. However, most of the settlers in the area (especially the Ispans) are of Thyatian extraction (Kerendan?). Given the Byzantine/Greek background of Thyatis and the Byzantine structure that James Ruhland has used for his expansion of Thyatis in the MA and elsewhere I theorised that unit names for the Savage Baronies would be more Late Roman/Western Empire than modern Spanish/Portuguese. Does anyone on the list have appropriate unit names (for infantry, cavalry, militia, particular regiments etc) that might suit a late Roman/Spanish theme. I am looking particularly for generic names for infantry, cavalry and auxillaries, and also for specific unit names that could be applied to certain elite units. Failing this, does anyone know similar names from medieval spanish and portugeuse units. Cheers Adrian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:46:13 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >> A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was Petra? << > > Let me put it this way: I'd believe she's Petra before I'd believe Stefan is Halav. > > Unless Halav was a hubristic egoist and moral simpleton unable to evaluate character. But I don't think of Halav that way, so Stefan can't really be Halav. The idea is actually absurd - as well as insulting to the Traladarans, infantilizing them. And then, if Halav was that kind of character, who would have been Zirchev? Ludwig von Hendricks, I suppose :) -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:16:09 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Crater-effects on Darokin? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ricardo Matheus wrote: > >From: The Stalker > >Weren't those caused by the Meteor impact? A lot of the Silver = Sierras were > >knocked down that way. >=20 > I don=B4t think so. The Colossus Mounts are farther from the impact = point than > Glantri City itself. Any impact capable of altering landscape so far = away > would have destroyed the whole Glantri (or at leat Glantri City which = is > closer) The Colossus Mounts haven't really changed. They just miscolored some of = the hills. Take a closer look at Singhabad on the map in G:KoM. =20 > > >3)Well, I really just don4t need to say anything about the = despiction of > >the > > >broken lands > > > >Huh? >=20 > What I was trying to say is that the Broken Lands are shown as a big = "broken > or barren lands" area, where in fact there are plateaus and cliffs and = two > forts.What I=B4m begining to figure out is that most of the 8 = miles/hex maps > are only acurate inside the region they intend to despict (Glantri in = the > case of GKoM). Looking oustide the intended region borders may lead to > contradictions or most of the times to lack of details (this also = happens > to Ethengar khanates in the map of GKoM - the original gazetteer shows > various qualities of pasture in the map). This is one of the reasons = I=B4m > trying to build a huge non-selfcontradicting map of Mystara. I think that the map in G:KoM is meant to be used with players, which is = why Glantri itself is accurate, and everything outside of Glantri is = inaccurate or wrong. Players aren't supposed to know the interior of the = Broken Lands, except along the trade routes. Players aren't likely to = know the precise location of villages in Sind. Notice how everything = outside of Glantri itself is just bland. If you (the DM) have products = that detail these areas, you probably have maps for them that are more = precise as well, but your players aren't likely to be aware of precisely = what's there. Also note how on that map there are really vague = descriptions of Ethengar, Broken Lands, and the Northern Wastelands. = These give nothing away to the players, so you can safely lay out the = map without risk of players accidentally seeing something they weren't = supposed to know. In fact, it'll only wet their appetites for = exploration. Oh, and use the Trail Maps (good luck finding them) if you want a = complete 8 miles/hex overview of the Known World (south-eastern Brun). = They patch the Gaz maps together, and has a lot of cool info along the = borders to boot. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:03:27 CET Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Getting rid of a character non-permanently Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed What about simply having him fall into a river from a suspended bridge (of course, after everybody has already used their magic for that day)? His friends will helplessly watch him disappear among the waves... and will wonder if and when they'll see him again. No need of all that magic everytime... Federico _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 13:35:29 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Getting rid of a character non-permanently MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > In my Karameikos campaign, one of my players has to bow out for the > forseeable future due to real life stuff. (Hate it when that happens.) As > he and his character add a lot, we don't want to close the door on him ever > coming back and I need a way to take him off stage in a non-permanent way. > He and another player are running characters who are brothers from > Midwood. Unbeknownst to them, years ago, their father left a woman in > Mirros upon discovering she was mixed up with the wrong sort of people. Now > a member of the Iron Ring, and the leader of one of their cells, she's also > given birth to a daughter who is a half-sister to the two brothers. My plan > had been to have the one brother be kidnapped and brainwashed to eventually > attack his brother and companions but I can't think of a mechanism to do > this that won't derail the campaign as the other PCs, quite rightly, tear > up the country trying to find out where the snatched character has gone. > Any ideas? > The mother is an accomplished poisoner and assassin and poses as an > apothecary in Mirros. The daughter is a sleeper agent thief working at an > inn in Krakatos run by the brothers' aunt. Hmm. The method I would use is to have an female NPC, working for the woman that their father spurned, make the character fall in love with her (probably either by the use of a spell (such as a charm spell), the use of magical item, or by a potion of some type (glantrian witches can help you out there : )) ). Once the character has "fallen in love" with the said NPC, she then convinces him to leave the adventuring life (she couldn't stand the thought of him being hurt or dying), and return with her to Mirros, and work in her familys business (whatever that may be). Of course, he is so "head over heels" in love, that he agrees, and parts company with his comrades, telling them that whenever their in Mirros to come and see him etc. The party might feel slightly rejected, but they will be glad that he is finally settling down. Once the character has seperated from the party and gone to Mirros, then it is a fairly simple task to brainwash him against his brother, ready for when the characters player returns to your gaming sessions. You could even use the characters new love as a part of the brainwashing process (the half-sisters mother kills the female NPC that she hires, and puts the blame of the death on the characters brother, the final straw that would finally complete the brainwashing. This could be done just as the player returns to take up his character again, and hopefully, just after the brother had just visited them. :) ) Hope this can be of some use. :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 14:17:12 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > I was recently wondering about unit names for Savage Barony military units. > Clearly the inspiration for much of the Savage baronies is Spanish and > Portuguese. However, most of the settlers in the area (especially the > Ispans) are of Thyatian extraction (Kerendan?). Given the Byzantine/Greek > background of Thyatis and the Byzantine structure that James Ruhland has > used for his expansion of Thyatis in the MA and elsewhere I theorised that > unit names for the Savage Baronies would be more Late Roman/Western Empire > than modern Spanish/Portuguese. They are Ispans - exactly what an Ispan is - well, I assume that they are not mentioned in any Thyatian material. The Ispan (Spanish-like) race is presumably an offshoot of the Kerendans, but it doesn't actually say anything about them. I suspect the Thyatian Spaniards were made up just for Red Steel. > Does anyone on the list have appropriate unit names (for infantry, cavalry, > militia, particular regiments etc) that might suit a late Roman/Spanish > theme. I am looking particularly for generic names for infantry, cavalry > and auxillaries, and also for specific unit names that could be applied to > certain elite units. Failing this, does anyone know similar names from > medieval spanish and portugeuse units. Hmm. Well, check out the following link... http://www.northlink.com/~hauxe/ its got a fair bit of stuff on the subject of Spanish galleons, pirates and that sort of thing, which might be of help with navies, though its more about descriptions of what naval combat was like. Umm, elite units... well, there some knightly orders about in Spain, such as the Order of Calatrava the Order of Santiago the Order of Montesa the Order of Alc�ntara which I suppose you can modify a bit for elite unit names. Not so sure for other units. I'll have a look and see what I can find, I'm sure there is something about that I have that might help. I'll get back to you... Cheers Rob PS - make em Spanish :) If I wanted Byzantine flavour gaming, I would play in Thyatis not the Savage Baronies... except maybe Narvaez, they are supposed to be the most Thyatian of all the Baronies... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units >> Given the Byzantine/Greek background of Thyatis and the Byzantine structure that James Ruhland has used for his expansion of Thyatis in the MA and elsewhere I theorised that unit names for the Savage Baronies would be more Late Roman/Western Empire than modern Spanish/Portuguese. << Hmmmn. . .that's kind of a tough question. >> Does anyone on the list have appropriate unit names (for infantry, cavalry, militia, particular regiments etc) that might suit a late Roman/Spanish theme. I am looking particularly for generic names for infantry, cavalry and auxillaries, and also for specific unit names that could be applied to certain elite units. << Cabeleros for cavalry would work, I think. Milites for infantry. Auxilliaros for auxillaries. For specific unit names, though, I think going with actual Spanish & Portugese nomenclature would be fine by AC 1000+; by that time I don't think it's a stretch to say they've developed their own style by then. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:07:50 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeffrey Willis Subject: Re: Getting rid of a character non-permanently MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, but he said he (she? Sorry not sure. :)) wanted a way to keep them from tearing apart the countryside trying to find out what happened and ignoring everything else. > What about simply having him fall into a river from a suspended bridge (of > course, after everybody has already used their magic for that day)? > > His friends will helplessly watch him disappear among the waves... and will > wonder if and when they'll see him again. > > No need of all that magic everytime... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:19:01 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Comments >> And then, if Halav was that kind of character, who would have been Zirchev? Ludwig von Hendricks, I suppose << Well. . . If Stefan is Halav then Bargle the Infamous is Zirchev. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 10:54:42 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Stefan & Machetos &tc "Some" have claimed that Stefan would have been surprised and offended with what Thincol did to Machetos after the trade. But lets look at that and evaluate it: 1) As I pointed out, if Stefan had any feelings of concern for the welfare of the people of Machetos, and put the concerns of "his people" ahead of his ambitions, he wouldn't have traded the place away in the first instance. 2) Stefan of course knew that Thincol would want something out of the trade. Continuing to treat Machetos as any other Imperial dominion would have meant trading away Traladara in exchange for nothing: Machetos was already an Imperial dominion. So of course Stefan knew Thincol would use Machetos to get something more for himself (or, rather, the Empire), and not simply treat it as it always had been. 3) Stefan really can't be offended with what Thincol did, because they BOTH treated Machetos the same way: as a resource to drain in order to finance projects elsewhere. What did Thincol do to Machetos after the trade? He took the properties & slaves of the Karameikos holdings which Stefan had traded to them, and sold them, striping Machetos of the proceeds in order to complete a military rebuilding. What did Stefan do to the properties which he retained after the trade? Same thing - he sold them, striped Machetos of the proceeds, using them to finance ships &tc for something elsewhere, not for the benifit of the people of Machetos to whom he owed an ancestral obligation. What's the essential moral difference between how Stefan treated Machetos compared to how Thincol did? Both saw it as a resource to be tapped in order to fullfill some other project of theirs. Neither showed any concern for the welfare of the people of Machetos (next, someone will say that for 35 years Stefan evidenced great concern for the welfare of the people living in Halag - AKA the "Black Eagle Barony"). I can here the reply now: "Yah, but Stefan is Stefan! What he did to Machetos should be seen as good, because Stefan did it!" Wrong: an action isn't defined by the person doing it. Rather, the person doing the action is defined by his actions. Stefan's Actions: Abandoning his responsibilities to the people of Machetos. Stripping Machetos of wealth in a manner similar to that of Thincol; but, where Thincol used the proceeds to truly insure the welfare of the people he was responsible for (the people of Thyatis as a whole), Stefan used the proceeds to fullfill a personal ambition. High-handed and hubristic early behavior (I'm sure renaming Traladara after himself went over *real* well with the locals in those early days. . .) precipitates, as would be natural, a revolt. Stefan crushes the local Traladaran leaders and effectively eliminates them (and the Traladarans) from a role in governing their own nation (something even the Thyatian governors hadn't done). He appoints his lackies and relatives to positions of authority, regardless of their merits, in a nakedly cronyist and nepotistic regime. He turns a blind eye to the depredations of his vassals for over thirty five years, and takes no personal responsibility for unseating the worst of these, leaving the matter to be done by others. *IF* Olivia is so "bad" as some admirers of Stefan seem to think, he lets HER, like he let his vassals, get away with her machinations and manipulations. The Alfheim elves also helped Darokin fight back the Master of Hule, alongside the troops of Karameikos. When Alfheim is attacked, however, he does not help this friendly nation & people - he effectively sells Alfheim out in a manner not too disimilar from selling out Thyatis. He puts the Alfheim refugees, who have just experienced grave hardships in a difficult winter in the Cruth Mountains, in harm's way, deliberately giving them monster infested lands and interposing them between him and the Thyatis he betrayed. He sells out his homeland in exchange for a benifit - a school of magic to be constructed in Karameikos. Thus we see that covetousness and avarice, not principle, drives his actions here as well. He seemingly repetedly takes credit for the actions of others - Adventurers clear out parts of Karameikos of monsters, making it safer, but Stefan expropriates for himself the image of a "hero-King". I doubt he even led his armies personally against the forces of Hule, though; there's absolutely no indication he did, and considering the constant efforts to try and glorify him, they certainly would have mentioned him heroically leading his troops if he had done so. The fact that they don't speaks for itself. Stefan is not a "hero-King" - he just takes credit for other people's heroism. The most "benign" way that could be thought of to exculpate his misbehavior as a ruler was to say that he is incapable of seeing evil in others, trying to make that an endearing trait, and thus (grotesquely) making the apointment of such pillars of rectitude as Ludwig to positions of vassalage somehow endearing. But by no stretch of the imagination and by no definition can a person who is incapable of evaluating the character of his apointments be considered a good ruler or a good liege. Stefan's "achievements" largely rest upon the misfortunes of others which become lucky breaks for Karameikos: Alfheim goes under (without Stefan lifting a finger to help them), so Karameikos gets elven refugees. Alphatia sinks (who could have predicted that?) so Karameikos doesn't just get a school of magic, but gets one staffed and led by one of Alphatia's greatest wizards. No leadership shown by Stefan in these instances, Karameikos just is at the epicenter of a Vortex of Fortune. The retort is, I guess, "yah, but he built roads!" Big deal - Hitler built the Autobahn. Now, one can look at Stefan and say "well, he's a ruler like most of the others in Mystara - no different or worse in character from Thincol." That may be (though if one looks at the apointments Thincol made to govern parts of Thyatis, none of them are as rapacious as some of the apointments Stefan made - Heinrich/Thanatos not being an apointment made by Thincol; the "worst" apointment he made was probably Donnegal Firestorm in Westrourke, who's a effective and solid ruler, but of somewhat wavering loyalty - not a guy on a par with, say, Ludwig; closest analogy would be Desmond Kelvin II. Thus, the worst apointment Thincol makes is equivilent to Desmond, not Ludwig). Anyhow, Stefan, morally, I'd agree with those who see him as just another coniving ruler, no different or worse than most of the others. . .but no better, either. Certainly not some pillar of rectitude and virtue. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 08:12:55 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: Getting rid of a character non-permanently MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Yes, but he said he (she? Sorry not sure. :)) wanted a way to keep them from tearing apart the countryside trying to find out what happened and ignoring everything else. > What about simply having him fall into a river from a suspended bridge (of > course, after everybody has already used their magic for that day)? > > His friends will helplessly watch him disappear among the waves... and will > wonder if and when they'll see him again. > > No need of all that magic everytime... << Oh, my vote is for killing him. But perhaps he doesn't really have to die...just appear to have died. There should be lots of ways to trick low level PCs into thinking that their friend has been killed. Illusions, simulcra, etc... Here is a suggestion if you don't want to use a lot of magic. The PC in question is replaced by a doppleganger. The doppleganger is on the pay of the Iron Ring, and instead of disposing of the original, it simply delivers him to his evil "step-mother" or whoever she is. But the Iron Ring is pretty crafty. They'll prepair for the eventuality that the PCs will discover the ruse with the doppleganger. They kill some poor bloke and stash him away in the doppleganger's layer. When the PCs discover the shape changer and try to find their friend, they are led to a rotting corpse. Mystery solved. Friend dead. But not really. When the player is ready to come back (from RL) then he should be able to pick up his character just where he left off. He might have issues with the other characters however... "Why didn't you ever come for me? Why did you just give up hope?" "We thought you were dead..." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 11:21:52 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Brant Casavant Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for Byzantine military units, here's some basic information: Cavalry and infantry units were called "bandon" (plural "banda"). The infantry unit generally consisted of sixteen smaller units, called "lochaghiai." Each lochaghiai had sixteen men in it. So, your average infantry bandon has 256 men it. A cavalry bandon was broken down into six groups of fifty, each group called a "allaghia." So, a cavalry unit typically had 300 men in it. As for elite units, some Byzantine names could include: The Scholae (the emperor's personal army) The Excubiti The Arithmos The Ikanatoi The Numeri The Hetaereia And, of course, the Varangian Guard (the emperor's bodyguards). Hope that helps. If I turn up anything else, I'll let you know. - Brant ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:07:17 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You should look at James' Thyatis site :) > As for Byzantine military units, here's some basic information: > > Cavalry and infantry units were called "bandon" (plural "banda"). The > infantry unit generally consisted of sixteen smaller units, called > "lochaghiai." Each lochaghiai had sixteen men in it. So, your average > infantry bandon has 256 men it. > > A cavalry bandon was broken down into six groups of fifty, each group called > a "allaghia." So, a cavalry unit typically had 300 men in it. > > As for elite units, some Byzantine names could include: > > The Scholae (the emperor's personal army) > The Excubiti > The Arithmos > The Ikanatoi > The Numeri > The Hetaereia > And, of course, the Varangian Guard (the emperor's bodyguards). > > Hope that helps. If I turn up anything else, I'll let you know. > > - Brant > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 09:06:16 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Getting rid of a character non-permanently In-Reply-To: <20001114161255.5262.qmail@web1205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:12 11/14/00 -0800, John Calvin wrote: >The PC in question is replaced by a doppleganger. The doppleganger is on the pay of the >Iron Ring, and instead of disposing of the original, it simply delivers him to his evil >"step-mother" or whoever she is. >But the Iron Ring is pretty crafty. They'll prepair for the eventuality that the PCs >will discover the ruse with the doppleganger. They kill some poor bloke and stash him >away in the doppleganger's layer. When the PCs discover the shape changer and try to >find their friend, they are led to a rotting corpse. Mystery solved. Friend dead. > >But not really. When the player is ready to come back (from RL) then he should be able >to pick up his character just where he left off. He might have issues with the other >characters however... > >"Why didn't you ever come for me? Why did you just give up hope?" > >"We thought you were dead..." Oooh. Lots of good suggestions, but this might be the best one yet. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:32:33 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phillip Jones wrote: > > May I point out that Thincol betrayed the spirit of the deal and their > friendship first. No sooner than Stefan had boarded ship for his new, > autonomous nation, than Thincol began systematically raping Stefans > ancestoral lands, until nothing was left of value. Do you think that Stefan > would have been pleased to have seen the fate of his ancestral lands at the > hands of his so called "friend"? I think not. If Thincol had been a true > friend, he would have simply appointed a good and just governor to those > lands, and would have not abused Stefans lands so first. > Remember, Stefan himself sold off everything that could be sold in Machetos before he left it to Thincol. So Stefan is not much better in this. > There is a big difference between Stefan Karameikos and the Master of Hule. > What the Master of Hule does, he does in his own personal power and self > interest. The Masters apologists try vainly to disguise the evil that > motivates him. > > On the other hand, what Stefan does, he does for the good of his nation, not > for personal power. How is this different? More prosperous nation -> more personal power for the ruler. The Master of Hule is also doing what he is for the good of his nation - a nation of people who worship Bozdogan, and therefore see the Master's actions as good. -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 20:48:06 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Solmyr Subject: Re: Stefan & Machetos &tc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Evil Genius wrote: > > 2) Stefan of course knew that Thincol would want something out of the trade. Continuing to treat Machetos as any other Imperial dominion would have meant trading away Traladara in exchange for nothing: Machetos was already an Imperial dominion. So of course Stefan knew Thincol would use Machetos to get something more for himself (or, rather, the Empire), and not simply treat it as it always had been. > This sort of brings up the question on what terms Thincol accepted the deal in the first place. After all, before that, both Machetos and Traladara were Imperial dominions. So Stefan couldn't really "trade" Machetos to Thincol since it was already the Empire's property. So technically the only way he could get Traladara would be to switch from one Imperial dominion to another, i.e. from Machetos to Traladara, without any mentions of independence (why would Thincol allow one region to become independent in exchange for "receiving" another region that he already owns as its liege?). -- ****************** Aleksei Andrievski aka Solmyr, Archmage of the Azure Star solmyr@kolumbus.fi http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/2198/index.html ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:06:13 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis >> Remember, Stefan himself sold off everything that could be sold in Machetos before he left it to Thincol. So Stefan is not much better in this. << That's only one reason why this "if Thincol had been a friend, he'd have just apointed someone to govern Machetos after trading for it with Stefan in exchange for Traladara" claim is such a farce and a sham, amounting to saying that Thincol should have just given Traladara to Stefan for nothing (and about on par with claims that Stefan got the short end of the stick in the exchange in how far we should take it seriously). After all, Thincol already had a governor for Machetos: Stefan. What would be in it for Thincol if the outcome of the trade was just the status quo ante in Machetos as an Imperial dominion, with a different Duke while giving Stefan Traladara? Nothing. And of course Stefan knew that - Stefan "raped" Machetos in the same way Thincol did. Stefan didn't care about the welfare of "his people" in Machetos - he traded them away. This trade wasn't about them: it was about Stefan's selfish ambitions. If Stefan cared about responsibilities for the welfare of others, th! ! ere never would have been such a trade to begin with. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:12:14 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >They are Ispans - exactly what an Ispan is - well, I assume that they are >not mentioned in any Thyatian material. The Ispan (Spanish-like) race is >presumably an offshoot of the Kerendans, but it doesn't actually say >anything about them. I suspect the Thyatian Spaniards were made up just >for >Red Steel. Yeah, that is pretty much what I had thought. There is no particular reference to what part of the Thyatian empire Ispans came from - I cannot think of any off hand - the Kerendas reference was to something James had on his Thyatis site I think. I would be more inclined to think of the Ispans as Ierendians than as Thyatians (although I guess most of the Ierendians were originally (circa AC 500) Thyatians. Perhaps that would be the best interpretation. >Not so sure for other units. I'll have a look and see what I can find, I'm >sure there is something about that I have that might help. >I'll get back to you... Thanks Rob, I would appreciate any help you can give me. >PS - make em Spanish :) If I wanted Byzantine flavour gaming, I would >play >in Thyatis not the Savage Baronies... except maybe Narvaez, they are >supposed to be the most Thyatian of all the Baronies... I agree. I never intended to make them Byzantine, I was thinking late Roman era Spanish (rather than later Roman empire - Byzantine/Greek) names (which would probably have a latin flavour I guess). The problem lies in the fact that the Baronies were colonized by Thyatians around AC900 if I remember correctly. 100 years is an awfully short time to turn Byzantinesque Thyatians into full blown late medieval or renaissance Spanish. Of course I could just completely ignore this discrepancy or alternatively I could try to link the two a little bit more. But in any case thanks to everyone for their suggestions. If anyone can come up with more Spanish or Portuguese sounding names for military units, it would be much appreciated. Cheers Adrian _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:47:59 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units In-Reply-To: <20001114222525.9543A8131@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >> They are Ispans - exactly what an Ispan is - well, I assume that they are >> not mentioned in any Thyatian material. The Ispan (Spanish-like) race is >> presumably an offshoot of the Kerendans, but it doesn't actually say >> anything about them. I suspect the Thyatian Spaniards were made up just >> for Red Steel. > > Yeah, that is pretty much what I had thought. There is no particular > reference to what part of the Thyatian empire Ispans came from - I cannot > think of any off hand - the Kerendas reference was to something James had on > his Thyatis site I think. I would be more inclined to think of the Ispans > as Ierendians than as Thyatians (although I guess most of the Ierendians > were originally (circa AC 500) Thyatians. Perhaps that would be the best > interpretation. >From the Savage Coast accessory, in the History of the Savage Baronies section... "Beginning around the year 900, another wave of colonization came to the Savage Coast. this brought many more humans to the region, primarily a large expedition from the Thyatian Empire far to the east. Sent by Emperor Gabrionus IV, the people who came to the Savage Coast were from a particular ethnic group amoung the Kerendan people of the Empire, the Ispans. Like other Kerendans, Ispans were olive-skinned, dark-haired, and fond of efficiency and fighting ability; unlike Kerendans, Ispans also possessed a fair amount of wanderlust." That's about the only reference to "Kerendan" I found in the source. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:54:56 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Not so sure for other units. I'll have a look and see what I can find, I'm > >sure there is something about that I have that might help. > >I'll get back to you... > > Thanks Rob, I would appreciate any help you can give me. Hmm, well, there isnt a great deal of information on the internet that I can see. My old man has a fair few military history books, I'll see what I can find there, as it seems that the net has failed me this time :) > >PS - make em Spanish :) If I wanted Byzantine flavour gaming, I would > >play > >in Thyatis not the Savage Baronies... except maybe Narvaez, they are > >supposed to be the most Thyatian of all the Baronies... > > I agree. I never intended to make them Byzantine, I was thinking late Roman > era Spanish (rather than later Roman empire - Byzantine/Greek) names (which > would probably have a latin flavour I guess). The problem lies in the fact > that the Baronies were colonized by Thyatians around AC900 if I remember > correctly. 100 years is an awfully short time to turn Byzantinesque > Thyatians into full blown late medieval or renaissance Spanish. This is true - but it depends on which way round you do it. Need to talk to James Ruhland about it I would guess :) Either the Ispans had a massive change from the instant they set foot on the Savage Coast (Baronia de Narvaez doesn't sound particularly Byzantine to me) or they were a minor culture in Thyatis that just didnt get a mention for some reason. Thyatis is a big and diverse place, after all. It also doesn't explain why the Ispans left Thyatis in the first place, or whether their leaving was amicable. It doesnt seem to be a typical colonisation, as the Savage Baronies seem to have very little contact with the motherland... it may have been more of an exile (forced or not). I'm not a huge expert on the Kerendans, so I can't really comment as to how they would fit in from the Thyatis side. I do know they dont actually speak Thyatian, and they never did - Espa and Verdan are similar, but not the same, and they spoke Ispan before they split, which presumably is another language again. So there must be quite a cultural difference there somewhere. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:28:03 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Daniel Eustace Subject: A few comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, I have a few quick comments on recent posts. I get the MML in digest mode, since this is on my PC at work, so I can't reply to individual posts directly. To Beau, on the issue of the PC leaving his game: I've handled this a few ways IMC. One PC disappeared in the middle of a large battle and was last seen flying toward a Heldannic warbird that later fle the battlefield. The other PCs weren't able to follow, waited around for some time and then decided to press on w/o him. They assumed that he'd been killed/captured. He has never returned, so far. One PC was held as a hostage and the others had to go on a long quest to save him from being sacrificed. After the quest, the other player could return and be rescued, so it was pretty seemless. Another one was called away on a mission by King Ericall and never seen again. Recently, he was discovered in the dungeon of an evil wizard and rescued by another band of adventurers. He was out of the game for several years (both RW and game time). You could have the PC run some kind of low risk errand by himself, and be captured by some enemies (like the Iron Ring that you mentioned). The others would wonder what happened to him, and try to track him down, but you'd need to dead end them. Maybe, years later, when the player is available again, they could rescue him when they least suspect it (esp. if they think he's dead). Having the original PC turn against the party can be tricky. Good luck! Another approach I've used is to keep the PC active, but use a different player to take over that role (kind of like James Bond being played by several different actors). The 1st player might not want this though and finding a good match isn't always easy. To Paul Beafield on the hin: The High Heroes aren't really described in much detail. It's pretty much up to the individual DMs. The main one is Nob Nar, and there are 2 others named in the GAZ (Shadowglint and Capernaum, I think). The Keeper of the Blackflame would be a spiritual leader of some sort, maybe even a cleric. I don't recall which Immortal was responsible for Blackflame, but they obviously have some interest in the hin. Alot of Stefan bashing going on. What if he *really* is the chosen of Halav? Dan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:46:16 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Shaun Muncy Subject: Re: A few comments MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 11/14/00 5:42:30 PM Central Standard Time, Daniel.Eustace.B@BAYER.COM writes: > Alot of Stefan bashing going on. What if he *really* is the chosen of Halav? > > > Dan Then Halav shouldn't be allowed to make anymore important decisions. "Chaos rules, so I'm in charge." - Arkon, Dark Lord of Chaos; Ruler of the Lost City; Kobold Tactician; Keeper of the Mystic Sock. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 15:36:54 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: A few comments In-Reply-To: <0056750026784900000002L502*@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 18:28 11/14/2000 -0500, Daniel Eustace wrote: >I've handled this a few ways IMC. One PC disappeared in the middle of a large >battle and was last seen flying toward a Heldannic warbird that later fle the >battlefield. The other PCs weren't able to follow, waited around for some time >and then decided to press on w/o him. They assumed that he'd been >killed/captured. He has never returned, so far. That's kind of odd, though, if you think about it. And it likely wouldn't work for my PCs, where one is the character's brother and all four of them are lifelong friends from Midwood Hamlet. >Another one was called away on a mission by King Ericall and never seen again. >Recently, he was discovered in the dungeon of an evil wizard and rescued by >another band of adventurers. He was out of the game for several years (both RW >and game time). I may end up reintroducing him this way if the other subplot won't work. >Another approach I've used is to keep the PC active, but use a different player >to take over that role (kind of like James Bond being played by several >different actors). The 1st player might not want this though and finding a >good match isn't always easy. No, this player has strong feelings about his character. >Alot of Stefan bashing going on. What if he *really* is the chosen of Halav? Heh. That would upset a LOT of applecarts. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 17:51:05 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units In-Reply-To: <20001114231001.512F6817F@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > This is true - but it depends on which way round you do it. Need to talk to > James Ruhland about it I would guess :) Either the Ispans had a massive > change from the instant they set foot on the Savage Coast (Baronia de > Narvaez doesn't sound particularly Byzantine to me) or they were a minor > culture in Thyatis that just didnt get a mention for some reason. While the Ispans are a major influence on the Savage Baronies, they were not the only culture/people that settled there. In 902 the Barony of Narvaez was founded by the expedition of Ispan people. This land is already occupied by inhabitants, humans, elves, dwarves and tortles. > I do know they dont actually speak Thyatian, and they never did - Espa and > Verdan are similar, but not the same, and they spoke Ispan before they > split, which presumably is another language again. So there must be quite a > cultural difference there somewhere. Here is a shortened summary of the migrations and settlements of the Savage Coast. Much of what follows is excerpted from the Savage Coast accessory. In 3400 BC Oltecs fleeing the war with Azcans migrate to the Savage Coast settling the eastern and central shores of the Savage Coast. Manscorpions, tortles, aranea and wallara are already flourishing on the Coast to the west. In 2300 BC Elves arrive and settle alongside the Oltec, but not living among them. In 2000 BC The Aranea begin being supplanted by human and elven mages (Nothing is said as to the exact culture but one could assume Oltec humans.) 1700 BC the Goblinoids settle the Yazak Steppes. By 1300 BC the Goblinoids decimate the Oltecs and Elves who are reduced to savage semi-nomad life. 700 BC the Nithians colonize the Coast and interbreed with the Oltec descended humans somewhat. Elves of the lands that become the Savage Baronies establish settlements in and around the lands that become Torreon and Narvaez. At 500 BC the Nithians are removed from the Outer World by the Immortals. Because of the inter-breeding with the Oltecs mixed heritage humans are left behind but Immortal magic removes memory of the Nithians from those who were not taken. Because of the interbreeding and mixing of cultures the Immortal magic could not remove all traces of Nithian culture from the humans. Humans attribute their culture completely from Oltec descent. 400 BC marks the arrival of Dwarves on the eastern shores of the Savage Coast. 100 BC the Tortles begin their flirtation with cizilization. 100 AD Goblinoid hordes sweep through smashing the tortle civilization and the human, elven and dwarven remnants are prompted to build permanent settlements. 450 AD Traldar arrive and found the City-states and those who cross the Gulf of Hule are absorbed by existing cultures descended from the Oltecs. Humans of the lands that will become the Savage Baronies intermingle with the elves of the region. 500 AD Humans move into the area that becomes Eusdria and Robrenn; Elves and dwarves ally with the humans. (Nothing is said what culture these humans were, be them pure Traldar Traldar-Oltec mix or just Oltec... In 900 AD more human migrations arrive, primarily Ispan from Thyatis. Yavdlom colonizers settle the lands that become Texieras and Villaverde and mingle with the Ispans and native humans. Another group of humans from Ylaruam settle in what becomes Saragon. -------- While the governmental institutions may have been handed down from Thyatian colonizers, the culture of the people are far more varied with traces of Oltec, elven, Nithian (the people don't know this), Traldar, Yavdlom, Ylaruam and lastly the Ispans. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:04:26 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: A few comments >> Alot of Stefan bashing going on. What if he *really* is the chosen of Halav? << Then that would reflect badly on Halav. The "chosen of Halav" is a guy whom even most of his admirers admit can't discern good from evil reliably? Not a good choice. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:33:18 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Evil Genius Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units >> The problem lies in the fact that the Baronies were colonized by Thyatians around AC900 if I remember correctly. 100 years is an awfully short time to turn Byzantinesque Thyatians into full blown late medieval or renaissance Spanish. << Well, I guess it sort of depends on how close you want to cleave to the "canon" presentation. If you're up for changing a lot of nomenclature, that's one thing, but most folks aren't up for that. 8-) >> Either the Ispans had a massive change from the instant they set foot on the Savage Coast (Baronia de Narvaez doesn't sound particularly Byzantine to me) or they were a minor culture in Thyatis that just didnt get a mention for some reason. << Or they were somewhat/slightly different, and then evolved away more over the 100 years, and now in the "historical" materiels they refer to things as they would now. 100 years isn't long, but they don't have to change all at once when they step foot off the boat to reach what they're at now. >> It also doesn't explain why the Ispans left Thyatis in the first place, or whether their leaving was amicable. It doesnt seem to be a typical colonisation, as the Savage Baronies seem to have very little contact with the motherland... it may have been more of an exile (forced or not). << It doesn't seem to have been inamicable (Narvaez, the only Barony in the beginning, was chartered officially by the Empire), but they didn't maintain lasting ties to the Empire (though some influx seems to have continued at first). But one can see why: the Red Curse is somewhat of an obstical in back and forth travel & communication, and would have been doubly so in the early years, before folks had worked out some of the countermeasures that make it possible (though inconvenient in some ways) to do so. One can see why the Emperor might "invite" a internal, distinct, ethnic group to go colonize elsewhere, and why that group might accept the invitation (the Ispans are said to have wanderlust anyhow). They receive an initial Baronial title from the Emperor, a recognition that is of at least some value (the Narvaez hold it over the other Baronies to some extent that they're the only "real" one that was officially recognized). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:30:05 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units In-Reply-To: <20001114231001.512F6817F@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Oops! > 500 AD Humans move into the area that becomes Eusdria and Robrenn; Elves and > dwarves ally with the humans. (Nothing is said what culture these humans > were, be them pure Traldar Traldar-Oltec mix or just Oltec... Of course, just after I hit send I find the reference. These humans who settle in Eusdria and Robrenn come from human barbarians driven south by Hule. Gah! Eric Anondson (Trigger happy send button) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 16:26:12 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Subject: A few comments In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:04 11/14/2000 -0500, Evil Genius wrote: >>> Alot of Stefan bashing going on. What if he *really* is the chosen of Halav? << > >Then that would reflect badly on Halav. >The "chosen of Halav" is a guy whom even most of his admirers admit can't discern good from evil reliably? > >Not a good choice. He's OD&D. He can only distinguish Law, Neutrality and Chaos. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:37:04 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > While the Ispans are a major influence on the Savage Baronies, they were not > the only culture/people that settled there. In 902 the Barony of Narvaez > was founded by the expedition of Ispan people. This land is already > occupied by inhabitants, humans, elves, dwarves and tortles. > > > I do know they dont actually speak Thyatian, and they never did - Espa and > > Verdan are similar, but not the same, and they spoke Ispan before they > > split, which presumably is another language again. So there must be quite a > > cultural difference there somewhere. > > Here is a shortened summary of the migrations and settlements of the Savage > Coast. Much of what follows is excerpted from the Savage Coast accessory. Yep. The Oltec descendents in the Savage Baronies I think most closely equate to Spanish Moors or something similar. Saragon is supposed to have more (excuse the pun) Oltec and Ylari stock than anywhere else in the Savage Baronies - which might be why it is scholastic and scientific. However, the Spanish aspect simply must be due to the Ispans. The language is called Espa (espanol, anyone?), they have names like Narvaez and Vilaverde, and the source material says that the native nonhumans (like elves) have been wholly assimilated by the human culture. There is no such thing as "elven culture" on the Savage Coast per se. Certainly not on the Savage Baronies, anyway. Tortles seem to have a sort of subculture, which gets along happily alongside the colonists and other inhabitants - but they seem to lead pretty separate lives. Bit like native Amerindians I guess. > While the governmental institutions may have been handed down from Thyatian > colonizers, the culture of the people are far more varied with traces of > Oltec, elven, Nithian (the people don't know this), Traldar, Yavdlom, > Ylaruam and lastly the Ispans. Mmm, but the Thyatians are something of cultural imperialists... I can see Ylari and Oltec influence in the Savage Baronies, but Traldar? the Savage Baronies and the Traldar city states are like chalk and cheese. On the one hand we have a culture scientifically minded enough to deal with the Red Curse, research it, and invent firearms, and on the other hand we have superstitious Traldar who are terrified of the Red Curse and don't go anywhere near the cursed lands. Cheers Rob ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:25:40 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units In-Reply-To: <20001115005221.7BB5A8154@brea.mc.mpls.visi.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > However, the Spanish aspect simply must be due to the Ispans. The language > is called Espa (espanol, anyone?), they have names like Narvaez and > Vilaverde, and the source material says that the native nonhumans (like > elves) have been wholly assimilated by the human culture. > > There is no such thing as "elven culture" on the Savage Coast per se. > Certainly not on the Savage Baronies, anyway. Both (elves have no culture on the Savage Coast, and that native nonhumans were assimilated are undisputed. But was it wholly assimilated. There are hints that the nonhumans were not wholly assimilated. For instance, in Torreon, the great majority of nobility are elves with the rest being pure Ispan. In Torreon, the elvish language is the language of choice of the nobility, diplomacy and etiquette in Torreon. Saying that nobility has no influence on the culture below is like saying the Normans who conquered England had zero influence on the culture of the English. Did the elves just give up all that they had known when the Ispans came along? There are Elves living today on the Coast who still remember what life was like before the Traldar came along. Did the elves give up most of their culture, yeah. But did the elves have no influence if they are so admired that elves are considered the example of nobility and etiquette? Just saying that the elves had influence in the final observed culture of some nations of the Savage Coast. >> While the governmental institutions may have been handed down from Thyatian >> colonizers, the culture of the people are far more varied with traces of >> Oltec, elven, Nithian (the people don't know this), Traldar, Yavdlom, Ylaruam >> and lastly the Ispans. > > Mmm, but the Thyatians are something of cultural imperialists... I can see > Ylari and Oltec influence in the Savage Baronies, but Traldar? the Savage > Baronies and the Traldar city states are like chalk and cheese. On the one > hand we have a culture scientifically minded enough to deal with the Red > Curse, research it, and invent firearms, and on the other hand we have > superstitious Traldar who are terrified of the Red Curse and don't go > anywhere near the cursed lands. As far as the Traldar, witness Cimmaron. The only other obvious statement of Traldar influence was in Almarron. Quote: "The long years of tension and culminating defeats so disgusted the general populace that the people of Almarron rose up and overthrew the baron. They embarked on a democracy, using old Traladaran writings as a basis for government." Again, small influence but it is there. Obviously, the Ispans have had the greatest influence in the Savage Baronies. I'm just saying they aren't everything. Eric Anondson ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 02:12:42 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Byzantine/Spanish Units Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed So it seems that what we have in the Savage Baronies (as distinct from the Savage Coast) is an ancient Oltec/Nithian people later integrated with Traldar, most recently supplemented with Yavdlom, Ylari and Ispan (Thyatian) settlers. Given that the Oltec/Nithian side would be almost non-existant in terms of cultural and racial influence after such a long period of integration into subsequent cultures, the primary influence on the nature of the Savage Baronies is likely to be Traldaran. If we were to take RW England as an example, the basis of the language is Anglo-Saxon (not Celtic or latin) with some French (ie Norman) influence. Transposing such a model to the Savage Baronies we get an essentially Traldaran language that is influenced by aspects of Ylari (given their prominence in learning and science in the area) and also of the imported overlords (ie the Ispan Thyatians). Especially with the longer lifespan of the elves and half-elves (in comparison to humans) in the region the older Traldaran influence on the culture may be stronger. So Espa and Verdan might be strongly Thyatian/Ispan influenced Traldaran. What was it that the Traldar were supposed to be based upon (Eastern Europeans?). If this is the case then the RW equivalent would be a Greek/Spanish influence on Eastern European language with some Saudi (Ylari) and African (Yavdlom) influence. In other words a complete hodge podge - draw whatever you want out of it sort of situation. In this case, given the strong New World feel that the Savage Baronies give off (South American and 19th Century US midwest) it would be reasonable to say that in fact, the Traldar influence on the area is practically non-existant and we need to assume that the Ispans are a very Spanish version of the Thyatians and that it is the Ispan culture that has predominated over the other imported Yavdlom and Ylari cultures. I dont think that is a very satisfying result but it is the only one that is canon consistent. Any further thoughts? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 18:39:13 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Evil Genius wrote: > >> Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, but > it was many years until anyone listened. << > > I can't tell here whether you're wrong by accident > or wrong on purpose. It would be more accurate to > say "Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, > but it was many years until he bothered to." - > remember, if you will, that he DELIBERATELY named > Karameikos a "Grand Duchy" in order to CREATE > misconceptions - not to "correct" them. > I think this is a silly statement. Calling it a grand duchy means that he doesn't piss so many people off as per OD&D rules of titles, and at that stage it IS NOT an independant nation and is under the protection and require surport. take for example the 800 thytainian mercenaries in the compainion set. Note the word mercenaries. Stefan doesn't just "get" them. It's not here I don't need these troops it's show me the money. Now if thytis was hireing troops from stefan I don't see stefan having a big problem because it's not him saying I surport you in this but if you want my services they cost you. However at the time his troops are worth far more to him then normal and that means thytis could not hire them. But thats not even what happens. Gee... "stefan GIVE me troops because I sold you troops" that works, really.... Stefan does not think thytanian. I agree he is concerned with puplicity, but thytainians are arogant. They don't like being told to reform. eg. Stefan: "oi! you there, I comand you to stop your slaving!" Slave-owner: "screw you" and sends private army (and lots of slaves) at stefan while also bringing his political and finantial power against him too. When in Thytis, do as the Thytainians do. eg. slave, betray, fight, and gennerally serve your own best interests (but in the most civilized of ways as only thytainians can). > > >> There is proof that Stefan did continually try to > correct these misconceptions, as by 1000 AC many > Known World nations had established an embassy > there, and recognised Karameikos as an independant > nation. << > > That's not proof that they did anything of the kind; > a Grand Duchy can receive foreign envoys and still > be part of the Empire. It doesn't say that they > recognized Karameikos as an independent nation. > > If they did, it's only because they saw through the > charade that Stefan TRIED to create - again, the > misleading impression HE tried to leave - not > because he "tried to correct" that misconception, > which is just a lie and a distortion. But I'm > getting used to that from you propagandists. > > >> No sooner than Stefan had boarded ship for his > new, autonomous nation, than Thincol began > systematically raping Stefans ancestoral lands, > until nothing was left of value. Do you think that > Stefan > would have been pleased to have seen the fate of his > ancestral lands at the hands of his so called > "friend"? I think not. << > > Stefan didn't give a RATS ASS about his ancestral > responsibilities. If he gave a damn about Machetos, > he wouldn't have abandoned it. > > Indeed, this just shows what an irresponsible > scumbag Stefan is. > > But if stefan ruled this how he wanted too, it would get desytoyed anyway(see above) and he would have made no contribution to the world. By "invading" Karameilos he could "improve the world" and will be remembered in history well, not just as the x th duke of Machetos (I wouldn't want to suffer that fate either). > >> There is a big difference between Stefan > Karameikos and the Master of Hule. What the Master > of Hule does, he does in his own personal power and > self interest. The Masters apologists try vainly to > disguise the evil that motivates him. << > > That's exactly what Stefan did. > > >> On the other hand, what Stefan does, he does for > the good of his nation, not for personal power. << > > Again, if Stefan was motivated AT ALL by what is > good for "his people", then he wouldn't have > abandoned his responsibilities to the people of > Machetos when THEY were "his people". > > As for Stefan doing what is good for "his nation", > again we go back to his irresponsible and downright > negative apointment of vassals - first, he crushes > the local leaders of "his nation", then replaces > them with his cronies, regardless of the fitness of > those cronies to rule responsibly (and several, not > just the notorious Ludwig, prove to be bad for the > locals, but good for Stefan and his entorage of > invaders) - then he leaves said persons in power, > washing his hands of any responsibility to be a good > steward of his lands and keep his vassals in line. > > >> There is no need to justify his actions, so > Stefan has > no need for apologists. << > > Again, it's more accurate to say that Stefan's > actions can't be justified, because they are so > disgraceful. The fact that some people still insist > on seeing him as a good ruler just shows how blind > they really are. Their efforts to toss out whatever > they don't like in a desperate attempt to "prove" > that Stefan cares for others rather than being > driven by his own narcissistic ambitions are so weak > that I'm almost embarassed to bother to refute them. > But gullibility springs eternal, so I have > persisted. > Stefan is not stupid, but also has not made the best choices. Lets get this straight. The master of Hule is EVIL because he worships an Evil god, and imposed this god on others. The ultimate goal, to make Loki the most powerful god (well thats how I see it). If he needs to kill people who don't agree along the way, so be it. Stefan is NOT motivated like this. The Socratic idea that the informed can make the judgements of right and wrong better then the uninformed is important because stefan believe he knows better then others. Maybe he doesn't but how do you irrefutablly prove it? Simple, you can because it is subjective. This brings me to my second point. Stefan is VERY simmilar to wiliam the bastard (william the conqueror). In france he was wiliam the bastard but in england he was william the conqueror. As Stefan is a trator in thytis and a "hero" in Karameilos. William invades and puts his cronies in charge because without their surport he cannot instigate his law and control, and cannot use locals because he cannot trust them and they might be defiant. until he has been accepted this MUST be the case. Stefan is in the same boat. Look at Alexander the Greats empire, It didn't last long and he put the local populace in charge frequently. If you don't really move in, people will just go back to their old ways at their first chance. This is why the roman empire lasted so well, they didn't just conquer, they expanded and taught, and gave people power and intergrated them into roman society so that it was a favourable state to the previous one (although not so everywhere). Stefans "money" can be far more useful in Karameilos, and yes if jack makes 1 persons life better and john makes 3 peoples lives better, john is nicer then jack. Stafan is not the best ruler of all time but he is a good ruler none the less and although ludwig is an evil barsted and should not rule, isn't he family, and these people who are so big on ancestral obligation don't seem to understand family loyalty. I'm not saying I'm totally right, but I am saying you are wrong. As William the conquerer wasn't respected by the french, stefan isn't by the thytainians. He does lets some bad things happen but he is still most probally lawful good. Remember this though; lawful- abides by the law (if he is the law it's even easier to abide by it, because it is lawful to follow HIS laws. plus making WAR is lawful act, assassination is not. I mean you DECLARE WAR, it is like LAW) Good- is generally a nice person and trys to do good, doesn't kill, maim, destroy, etc. And I haven't heard of stefan doing any of this. Sure Ludwig does but they are different people. Stefan cannot just kill Ludwig, he woulf have to denounce him, which is much harder to do then it sounds. The compainion set even goes through this senario. Oh and as far as ancestral obligation's go, thats bull. Why should he care? just because he was born there doesn't make it home. Machetos becomes property of the empire (which is not a big change) and the wealth that was there moves around. Who suffers and how? The slaves are sold, doesn't that happen anyway? Oh and the "giving Alfheim elves monster infested lands" well isn't that what Karameilos is full of. Thats why it's an adventurers paradice. Any land here is monster infested, but this is near where elves already live so there is support. plus if the shodow elves have kicked alfheims butt what hope does he have. It's not like they all came to him and said could you surport us. Elves like the forest, NOT civilization, or has the person who sergested this never read their OD&D clan description? Stefan is a good guy, not the best ruler but thats not what people have been saying as I can tell. If you think He could be better, justify it with how, who, when, where, with what(troops, resources, etc),and how he could thus be remembered by the true account of history(non-country biased) as an influential person who's positive effect's cannot be forgoten (and so must be well remembered). Thought I'd put in my two cents. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 03:18:08 GMT Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: adrian mattias Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >--- Evil Genius wrote: > > >> Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, but > > it was many years until anyone listened. << > > > > I can't tell here whether you're wrong by accident > > or wrong on purpose. It would be more accurate to > > say "Stefan did try to correct the misconceptions, > > but it was many years until he bothered to." - > > remember, if you will, that he DELIBERATELY named > > Karameikos a "Grand Duchy" in order to CREATE > > misconceptions - not to "correct" them. > > > >I think this is a silly statement. Oh ho! You have really baited James now! THis is a bit like waving a red flag at a bull. >Thought I'd put in my two cents. >Chris. Well, it was more like 20 cents, but given how they were New Zealand cents they are probably only worth 2 or so US cents :o) PS: BTW that is a reference to the current currency imbalance, not to the validity of your arguments Chris. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 19:49:30 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > How is this different? More prosperous nation -> > more personal power for > the ruler. The Master of Hule is also doing what he > is for the good of > his nation - a nation of people who worship > Bozdogan, and therefore see > the Master's actions as good. > The question is how does he use the power? The master of hule uses it to crush more infidels, while stefan would use it to make Karameilos better. Stefan wants a quality country, the master of hule believes quality IS quantity (and for Loki this is most desirable). The crushed infidels definately perfer the stefan type ruler. I don't know how anyone cannot understand this. I'd much rather live in a place that says don't kill, then a place that says you can kill the disbeliever and lie to further your god, espesally when the god is entropic. The answer is if a bad person tells you something is good do you believe him? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:21:44 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis In-Reply-To: <20001115023913.416.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/14/00 8:39 PM, c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM wrote: > This brings me to my second point. Stefan is VERY > simmilar to wiliam the bastard (william the > conqueror). In france he was wiliam the bastard but in > england he was william the conqueror. As Stefan is a > trator in thytis and a "hero" in Karameilos. Yes, I'm sure that Stefan is a "hero" to the Traladarans, just as William the Bastard was a "hero" to the Saxon commoners of England. Jenn -- Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:21:45 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Cult of Halav (Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001113174731.007dd1e0@lby3.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/13/00 7:47 PM, lby3@LBY3.COM wrote: > Well, there's multiple reasons an Immortal might grant the Cult spells. > The simplest is just as a joke. Actually, I would think that the simplest explanation is that the Immortal grants the Cult spells to further an interest of his/hers. In the case of my own thoughts on the subject, I assumed that the Immortal in question was a patron of the Church of Karameikos. I prefer a nasty plot twist over a "joke" any day. :-) Jenn -- Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:21:45 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Traladara Mini-Gaz Comments In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/13/00 6:46 PM, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM wrote: >>> Sorry if that was confusing to readers. > > I think perhaps that could be helpfully clarified, since most readers probably > aren't going to have the same perspective as your campaign. Personally, I > divide the Dymrak at the Rugalov (regardless that it lays within Karameikos or > not) - that part of it which is east of the river I consider "eastern Dymrak" > and that part which lays to the west of the river as "western Dymrak" - to me, > that seems like the more natural dividing line. > Having thought it over, I agree. I'll make the change next time I go in there. > Or unless they had absolutely no self-respect and were utter and complete > drones. I can see them comming to accept Stefan's regime, but hero-worshiping > what amounts to an interloper/foreign regime and considering it's leader equal > to their greatest Immortal seems. . ."unlikely" - unless, as in your > portrayal, the interlopers themselves have tried to foster such a Cult of > Personality around the Maximum Leader/Great Helmsman themselves, through > various subterfuges. Exactly. How is it that you manage to put things so much more succinctly than I? :-) > Let me put it this way: I'd believe she's Petra before I'd believe Stefan is > Halav. Lol. > Unless Halav was a hubristic egoist and moral simpleton unable to evaluate > character. But I don't think of Halav that way, so Stefan can't really be > Halav. The idea is actually absurd - as well as insulting to the Traladarans, > infantilizing them. I agree. > Well, I guess in some part it depends upon one's evaluation of the morality of > Necromantic "killing spells" and the like. I called it "questionable" rather > than "evil", since I don't fully agree with, for example, the Complete > Necromancer's Handbooks evaluation of "Black Necromancy" and the like - but I > still see it as arguably not such a hot thing for an Order of Paladins to > effectively endorse (again, as with my opinion of Stefan - standing asside and > doing nothing but benifiting from something questionable done in your name/by > one of your supporters isn't the action of a Virtuous Hero; Paladins can't > just turn away and benifit repetedly and consider their hands entirely clean, > just because their supporter/friend is casting rather than they themselves. > Now, good isn't stupid, but one has to draw a line somewhere). Anyhow, I just > wondered if it was questionable; I didn't call it evil as such. I can certainly see where you're coming from. I guess I have a more "jaded" (though that's not really the right word) view of Paladins. I see them more as moral/holy crusaders, like the military-religious orders (the 4 Spanish orders, the Templars, Hospitaliers, etc.): righteous fighers for the cause of Good, but fighters nonetheless, who don't mind bloodying their hands on occasion, so long as the cause is just. Then again, your comment about "standing aside and doing nothing but benefiting from something questionable done in your name...", a la Stefan, stings quite a bit. I think maybe it's time to step back and attempt to examine the paradoxes in my view. > Speaking of which, to what sites would the pilgrims go (other than the obvious > ones, I mean)? I assume you're asking about Traladaran pilgrims, and not Spanish pilgrims (though I'd be happy to answer either). :-) I think that the obvious Traladaran holy sites would be the ruins of Krakatos and Lavv, sites of impotant battles in the gnoll invasion, and perhaps a few other important sites, such as the site of the first high temple in Old Marilenev (before the city swallowed it up, that is), a site where the Traldar of legend met with or made treaties with the elves or hin, etc. Due to the nature of the Traladaran faith (based on real political figures of the distant past), holy sites can be places of "wordly" importance, rather than just sites of legendary visions, etc. (though those are probably honored as well). > As Professor Berman (Bristol U) says, "to know is to understand" :-) > Does make me wonder about the particular involvement of the Vyalians, though; > the Vyalians, overall, seem more sympathetic to Thyatis & Thyatians in general > (but "insular" to Karameikos) - while I would otherwise expect the Callarii to > be, perhaps, more supportive of a "Traladaran Liberation Front". Is there a > reason why the Callarii are more supportive, it seems, of Stefan's regime and > not as sympathetic to the Traladaran cause? I think that the Callarii are more supportive of Stefan on the surface (i.e., joining the elite guard, trading with Thyatian settlers at Rifflian) since it suits their interests to not be displaced from their homeland (as, no doubt, Stefan would do at the slighest whiff of insurrection). However, I think that perhaps, beneath the surface, there is just as much support for the Traldarans (if not more, as the Traladarans didn't develop the interior, build roads, bring a homicidal cousin to town, etc.). But it's not too surprising that the Callarii don't swing too hard toward either side - all in all, both sides are just humans. > Are the Vyalia supporting the Traladarans because of Stefan's policies, or > have they, in this, turned against Thyatis in general? Well, I've always wondered at the relationship between the Vyalia and the Empire. If, as in my campaign, they were coerced into an alliance long ago (an alliance maintained as much by power-hungry elven counts as by the threat of military force from the capital), then there is a deep-seated resentment of Thyatians among the Vyalia, which suggests that they would come down on the Traladaran side of the matter. For the "Free Vyalia," those outside Thyatis, "recent" (well, to elves anyway) events have translated to being technically under Thyatian control once again, perhaps strengthening the bond between them and the Traladarans. I can see the "Western Vyalia" lending tacit support to the Traadaran freedom fighters. If, on the other hand, you believe that the Vyalia have a good relationship with the Empire, then there is no reason for the elves of the County to support the Traladarans. Mind you, that they won't support Stefan (the traitor) either, so there's not much going on there. Now, you can have the County elves be loyalists and still have Vyalian support of the Traladaran cause, from those on the Karameikan side of the border, mostly for the same reasons as above. These elves would be leery of Stefan's rule because perhaps they were dissidents who left Thyatis after disagreeing with the annexation of Vyalia centuries ago. Jenn -- Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:21:45 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Cult of Halav and Olivia (was Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/13/00 5:26 PM, jruhlconob@SPRYNET.COM wrote: >>> A chiling thought: would the cult believe that Olivia the Ice-Queen was >>> Petra? ;-) >> >> Nah. She's clearly the agent of some sinister Immortal trying to prevent him >> from reclaiming his true heritage ...<< > > True heritage as a feckless incompetent? > Olivia may be cold, but she's who's responsible for whatever successes the > rulers of Karameikos may have accomplished (as opposed to having fall into > their laps in the form of lucky breaks). You mean the way that Petra was likely responsible for much of Halav's (non-battlefield) successes (she being a queen and he being a warrior who...created his own shot at the crown)? Shhh, James, you're giving them grist for the mill... 8-)~ Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:37:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jennifer Guerra Subject: Re: Stefan's Rationalizations for Selling Out Thyatis In-Reply-To: <20001115034931.11138.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 11/14/00 9:49 PM, c_furneaux@YAHOO.COM wrote: > The question is how does he use the power? The master > of hule uses it to crush more infidels, while stefan > would use it to make Karameilos better. Better for the Thyatian settlers, yes. Better for Stefan's relatives and cronies, yes. Better for his "New Karameikans"; i.e., mixed-bloods who have assimilated into the Thyatian lifestyle, probably. That makes roughly 30% of the population. Ask the Traladarans. I won't ague, either, that "Karameikos" is better. I'm sure it is. Problem is, "Karameikos" seems to refer to the person first, and "his" nation, second. >Stefan wants a > quality country, the master of hule believes quality > IS quantity And choosing Traladara over little Machetos isn't quantity over quality? >(and for Loki this is most desirable). The > crushed infidels definately perfer the stefan type > ruler. Ask the people who lived under the Black Eagle Baron if they feel better off than the Huleans. For the most part, Hulean commoners are left alone unless they break a religious rule (which most don't since they're devout). The residents of Halag and vicinity lived in fear for 35 years or so because, regardless of how few "wrong thoughts" they had, the thugs, press gangs, and slavers might strike at any time. >I don't know how anyone cannot understand this. > I'd much rather live in a place that says don't kill, ...Like the place where the children of rebels have "accidents" during their relocation? ...Like the place where the borders of an internal barony - a fief sworn to the ruler - are considered closed and off-limits...to immigrants and emigrants alike, on pain of death? ...Like the place where hin and elves were either killed on sight or sold into slavery or given over to unspeakable fates? > then a place that says you can kill the disbeliever You dont have to kill them, if you actively subvert their religion by calling it a "silly superstition," and building cities (Kelvin) and magic schools upon their holy places. You make the religion appear weak and ineffective, and so the children of the natives ("New Karameikans") will find your own state religion much more attractive. > The answer is if a bad person tells you > something is good do you believe him? Only if the bad person is "Saint" Stefan? Jenn -- Valerya's Mystaran Dominion: http://www.geocities.com/valerya1/ Tome of Mystara e-Zine: http://www.geocities.com/mystaratome/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 00:17:23 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ron Rogers Subject: Stefan Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) It's been a while since I've posted. Ok, the only dominion Thincol actually owned was the Imperial dominion itself (I can't remember its name right now). Sure he's emperor but doesn't have absolute control, if he did Thyatis would have Imperial governors of Provinces, not Dukes, Barons, etc. Thyatis in 970 did not have full absolute control over Traladara except the coastal towns. Traladara was a province not a dominion, meaning the Emperor could do with it what he would. And it was mostly undeveloped wilderness, wilderness that would take a lot of time and effort to fully develop. Machetos was fully developed, by gaining possession of it, the Emperor could use it as a reward or buy someone off if need be. Even if the Emperor traded off Traladara he could rationalize this by saying that Thyatis could eventually conquer it, if Traladara ever became a threat or became economically or militarily important. And as for Stefan's decision to turn his back on Thincol during the Wrath unpleasantness there is one thing to say: The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one. In other words the safety of his people outweighed his friendship with Thincol. CronoCloud (Ron Rogers) Knight of the Square Table http://members.tripod.com/~CronoCloud/index.html Member of the Knights Knoble http://knightsknoble.cjb.net ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:52:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Cult of Halav (Traladara Mini-Gaz Church Comments) In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 22:21 11/14/00 -0600, Jennifer Guerra wrote: >On 11/13/00 7:47 PM, lby3@LBY3.COM wrote: > >> Well, there's multiple reasons an Immortal might grant the Cult spells. >> The simplest is just as a joke. > >Actually, I would think that the simplest explanation is that the Immortal >grants the Cult spells to further an interest of his/hers. In the case of >my own thoughts on the subject, I assumed that the Immortal in question was >a patron of the Church of Karameikos. I prefer a nasty plot twist over a >"joke" any day. :-) I suspect the true believers would find that a joke was far nastier in terms of what it said about their faith. Still, it's an interesting question ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.