========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:00:35 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris Furneaux : > > Gaz11. p. 32 of DM's book: "Akesoli is... an > > important link to Glantri > > and points farher west and northwest..." It also > > states that the city's > > (of 17,000 people!) main reason for existatnce is > > this trade, with a > > large infastructure to support it. this trade makes > > it a "major commerce > > center". This could hardly be the case if trade > > with Sind was a small > > matter in 1000 AC. >=20 > Why not. The trade with Glantri is fairly large from > my understanding, but I also think the definitions of > my small and your small seem to be different. If I say > little, I mean a few caravans etc, but it is much more > focused on glantri etc... that's all. Not that it is > so little it is hardly known. And there is nothing to > say that it is not just the sindhi provinces they > trade with, without actually venturing too far to > sind. Although I must admit it is likely given your > evidence that a few do go all the way. Akesoli does not lie on the route to Glantri in any way. West and = northwest of Akesoli the only civilization you'll find is basically Sind = unless you cross the Great Waste, which I'm sure we can agree that = Darokin merchants hadn't done yet by AC1000. Akesoli is a "major = commerce center" this could only be possible if they were trading = heavily with Sind. With a population of 17,000 it is larger than most = other non-capital settlements of other countries. Akesoli's population = are mainly concerned with trade; the city is "dominated by piers, docks, = and warehouses" to carry wares across Lake Amsorak. "Akesoli does not = produce a large number of goods itself, acting instead as a gathering = point for other areas' products." All this trade can only be with Sind = or somewhere beyond (not much there within acceptable ranges), though it = could be possible to reach the far side of Glantri by going around the = Kurish Massif, but not without passing through two or three Sindhi towns = and at least one Sindhi city. All quotes from GAZ11, DM Guide pg. 32. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:17:50 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stalker wrote: >> It's in Surra-Man-Raa according to Gaz 2. Which is a bit odd given = that that's a coastal city (north-eastern most) and outside the actual = desert.<< >> I agree that that would make the most sense, but it doesn't seem to = be the case for some reason. I guess the entire Northern Highlands of = Ylaruam outside the actual desert is where the river Nithia used to be = and that Surra-Man-Raa is where the capital was, which makes sense as it = would make it a port city right next to the central river.<< I've come to the conclusion that only the Northern Highlands were the = "actual" Nithia. I think the river did run through that area (GAZ2 = pg.8), and the Nithian civilization grew along the river. Apparently it = is assumed that most people digging around Nithian ruins would want to = ferry the goods out by ship (camels are not suited for travelling in = hills). This would only be possible through Surra-Man-Raa. Nithia has = been elevated to plateau, one must remember, so there are only three = natural ways off it. The others are by Cinsa-Men-Noo and Deraan. Perhaps = more Beads lie there, forgotten by everyone? (I'm just kidding ;) ). = Perhaps it is safe to assume that most Nithian tombs (or other = interesting sites) lie closer to Surra-Man-Raa and that the terrain near = Cinsa-Men-Noo is harsher and harder to travel. The fact that the = Hardanger range comes very close to the edge of the Nithian plateau = would support this. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:21:47 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: Q & A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stalker wrote: >> This is a really minor quibble, yet I feel compelled to point it out = anyway - the Week Without Magic was triggered when Rad used the Doomsday = Weapon and destroyed 'merely' Sundvall, the capital of Alphatia, not the = entire empire. That came later when Rad and Ixion were fighting over the = Nucleus of the Spheres (NoS) while some meddling adventurers were = 'reprogramming' the device. Anyway, when Alphatia was destroyed, WOTI = suggests a week without magic (which would be the second WWM!). We had a = topic about this on the list a while ago, and it seems that most of us = feel that there was no second WWM because it was prevented when Rad was = 'absorbed' by the NoS and so restored its energy, and also because the = NoS had not used/accumulated enough Rad force at that time (a jump from = no failure of magic to two weeks in year is a pretty big jump!).<< I was just trying to spare KoRneR's sanity. No reason to make it more = complicated than it had to be, right? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:25:01 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Colin Wilson Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance In-Reply-To: <20010214.154442.-92293.3.anowack@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > > > yep. Why is the question. > It's a fairly good question too! Basically, I like consipiracies and Darokin has always seemed a bit tame to me (although it makes a nice central point to run a campaign out of). My basic problem with the whole Sind, Hule, Savage Coast thing is that it can't just be a case of discovering the Western nations and saying 'oh, well Sind's a good stop off point.' The SC stuff says that a lot of the colonies were founded in the last hundred years. OK, in your average medieval culture, a hundred years is a long time, but it don't work that way in Mystara. Tylion could have watched several colonies being built! So, while many nations would have lost contact with their far off colonies, they wouldn't have forgotten about the SC's existance. Thus, they can't suddenly find Sind when they (re)discover them. Of course, this argument in itself implies that everybody knew about Sind. Hmmm. I sense one could go round in circles on this. I like the backwater idea. The most likely scenario is that it was well known in Darokin (who have an easily crossable border). The Sind ports were well known by everybody and the rest of the country was too poor to bother with. Still, an interesting thread! Col. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:28:48 +1000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Michael Diehm Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed These references may help:- Azem's Gate was mentioned in Dragon 171 p.10 Heldannic Gate was mentioned in Dragon 156 p.98 Thunder Rift dimensional pool is a two-way device, activated by completely immersing oneself in it (4' deep). The Karameikos side is a small pond. The user of the portal emerges in the other body of water, slowly rising to the surface after a dizzying sensation. Hope this helps. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:45:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium In-Reply-To: <200102150402.UAA11773@mail8.bigmailbox.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Ramses Ramirez wrote: > Hello, > > I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium > and wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both > the Rules Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new > monsters in the newer compendium that the older books do not have? IIRC it has two or three new monsters including the Lightning Zombie from the WotI boxed set. I wouldn't buy it for the new monsters though, but the color pictures of all the creatures were neat! H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:49:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Subject: Re: Q & A In-Reply-To: <3A8B96F3.5030808@libero.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Thu, 15 Feb 2001, G.P. Agosta wrote: > The good part is that the novice Immortal is not bound by the rules of > the traditional Immortal society (he has no sponsor), but this is > balanced by the fact that he needs more power and time to reach the same > power level of a starting traditional Immortal. This, BTW, fits with the > history of Rad, who is the only example of a Radiance Immortal not > generated by the original explosion. Surely, a prospective Radiance > Immortal in AC 1000 would have an easier way, though more akin to the > traditional one, with Rad as the sponsor. Still, it would make more sense if the NoS would create a manifestation form for the Radiant Immortal. That probably happened to Rad, and the same thing probably happened to Rafiel too when he achieved Immortality from the Blackmoor Nuclear Explosion. H�vard Haavard R. Faanes (hoc@nvg.ntnu.no) http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/~hoc "God created man in his image, and then man returned the favour." -Voltaire ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:05:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Q & A Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable since becoming immortal throught the radiance is not the common way, i wou= ld think it's fair to say that the default manifestation form of the new i= mmortal is the one he had while being mortal (yet it costs him the regular= fee in terms of PP). Now if , as he learns the way of the immortals, he wants to create another= manifestattion form, he can do it at the regular cost of PP. Becoming immortal while using the radiance is already an advantage for the= mages, it would be normal to give them a side effect which is not at the= ir advantage... thib ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:52:07 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/14/01 5:53:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: << On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:45:14 Alex Benson wrote: >In a message dated 2/12/01 8:38:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > ><< Now that the list seems to be back to normal, here is a topic I haven't >seen discussed here much - The Bead of Oblivion in Ylaruam that prevents >mortals from learning the truth about Nithia. > How do people handle this in their campaigns? > How does the Bead really work? ><< IMC there simply is *no* Nithia recorded in known Mystaran history! >Thothia has a completely unknown origin, and the language spoken there is >called "Thothian" because there is no connection to Nithia. > Now and again, scholars come across evidence to suggest the existence of >some ancient, powerful culture somewhere in the vicinity of Ylaruam, but when >they set up expiditions to go there and find out, they return without having >found anything because they traveled within the range of the Bead of Oblivion >and forgot all about Nithia. So they return home convinced that it was all a >lost cause and a legend without merit. > It seems to me that this is pretty much how the Bead of Oblivion must work. >Anybody else see it that way?>> > >well....IMC nithia was always portrayed as an ancient and mysterious >civilization. information and artifacts were rare and prized possessions. >most fluent in nithian lore were the alphers simply out of their >national/imperial longevity and since there is mention of the nithians having >contact with them...perhaps even guiding them to mystara. Add the >relationship that the alphers have wth Thothia and there is the basis for >some understanding and even firsthand experience with the nithians. > Guide them to Mystara? Why? DOTE makes some mention of interaction, yes, but it also states that the Alphatians forgot about them after Nithia was destroyed and that the Thothians themselves are left with nothing but a vague memory of having belonged to some mighty culture abadoned by the Immortals (DM book, p.6). In fact, it says that even 'today' (AC 1000 by DOTE standards) the Alphatians still can't figure out what happened (Alphatia player guide, p.11). So while there is indeed evidence to suggest that the Alphatians had first hand experience with the Nithians, it is also rather clear to me that such experience was wiped from their minds, or as DOTE says it, "...knowledge of it is erased from the minds and records of mortal man".>> hmm....IIRC there are a few references to the Alpher/Nithian contacts in either the HW Box or the HW Nithia Book. anyway....no matter. as for their bewilderment at why the culture fell through. alphers had colonies in Ylaruam. perhaps those that investigated nithia (for curiousity or power) encountered the BoO. likewise mainland alpher mages may have ventured there as well and had their memories wiped. to use this theory you would have to have some really powerful bait to get the investigating folks to go into the affect radius of the BoO. <<>as for the rest of mystara, the nithians can easily become mysterious. to >them "NITHIA" is but a term for a long dead civilization. much like >"Blackmoor" little is known about its exact details. nithian related finds >are various and inconsistant as colonial influence varies from other colonies >and from "mother nithia". hence the surviving colony of thothia developed a >different society and language. these evolutions coming through time, alpher >influence, and the very religious differences that had thothia avoid nithia's >fate. in short, thothia should not be a carbon copy of nithia. > Nope. And the Immortals made sure it wasn't.>> agreed. <<>in RW terms one only has to look at the nithian model nation of ancient >egypt. even today there are so many different theories on that civilization >and such. much of ancient egypt's history was simply forgotten. this could >easily happen in nithia where the civilization was destroyed and had no >occupying conquerors to record any info on the fallen civilization. > And the Bead of Oblivion prevented various conquering Alphatians and Thyatians from discovering such information later (or at least of making use of it).>> yes. personally i tend to think that artifacts like the BoO were inserted without any longterm thought. to be honest i don't think that the Mystaran Staffers ever thought that matters such as BoO would be analyzed like this. IMO other details that fall into this category are NoS, the bulk of WotI, HW's SoP, and the Shadow Elf invasion. <<>since nithia was a colonial power there are ample avenues for nithian >artifacts and materials to come into play. i imagine that there would be >numerous examples of nithian ruins all over mystara. Minrothad was founded by Nithian settlers, for example. Minroth was the name of a Nithian IIRC. The Traldar in later Karameikos co-existed with Hutaakans from Nithia... The list goes on...>> bingo....iirc the traldar have some other ties to nithia as well. same thing for the anatalians in the hinterlands. << >magic avoids the need >for a rossetta stone. I would suggest that DMs make research difficult and >limit finds. no sense in having a fleet of PA sans an archaic form of the >Thothian Enchantment. > Not IMC, that's for sure! ;)>> agreed. << >as for the BoO, I hated this thing. I don't recall it ever really coming into >play in my old campaigns. the desert is a big place and even the artifact's >affect radius is dwarfed. True. I always wondered why they didn't let it cover a much wider area. Mystara itself, for example! Sure, that's pretty powerful, but we're talking about something deemed so dangerous by the Immortals that they had to wipe its very existence from history!>> yes. it makes sense if some bait is used to get PCs withing its radius of affect. still...i do have a problem with memory wiping items and false memories. there are just too many opportunities for inconsistencies. imagine if the PC party goes in and has a grand adventure. suddenly they are hit by the BoO, erasing memories of any gained nithian thoughts. what about XP that was gained? found spells? how do you explain the lost time? it is just alot of trouble and aggravation to work out. << > I tended to focus on the harshness of the climate >and the nasty surprises that ruins and such held. even those that survived >found that re-discovering the ruins was difficult as the desert sands shifted >to reform the terrain and boggle navigation attempts. I usually used these >second attempts as the vaulting points to allow the PCs to come across other >ruins and other dangers. > And what would they find?>> all kinds of stuff. ancient undead, old traps, and hidden treasure caches. of coarse more mundane obstacles could be used. desert brigands may have set up shop in these ruins. the adventures could be as dramatic as saving the world or as simple as removing a potential threat to nearby caravans. <<>I guess the BoO should be brought into play only if PCs get too good at their >archeological discoveries. i don't recall exactly where the BoO is located > It's in Surra-Man-Raa according to Gaz 2. Which is a bit odd given that that's a coastal city (north-eastern most) and outside the actual desert.>> thanks. i don't have any of my references handy. perhaps Surra-Man-Raa could have been the source of where the corruption that killed nithia rose from. anyway..it could be something to play around with. << >but I would place it near some pivotal locale where the corruption and >destructive powers that killed nithia rest. make it a resting ancient evil >type scenario with the BoO acting as a safeguard. I agree that that would make the most sense, but it doesn't seem to be the case for some reason. I guess the entire Northern Highlands of Ylaruam outside the actual desert is where the river Nithia used to be and that Surra-Man-Raa is where the capital was, which makes sense as it would make it a port city right next to the central river.>> i have no idea (working from memory). i guess alot depends on how much one would use RW-Egypt to base ancient nithia upon. since the Nithia River in HW is mentioned as being nearly identical to the SW version there might be other similarities there as well. i'll have to look when i have some time. <> Hmm...perhaps it is time for some immortal quest to involve the destruction of the BoO. perhaps tie it in to Al-Kalim's quest to make the desert bloom. stir things up in pandius. << >hmm...one could even >fabricate a portal of some sort that leads to HW Nithia. imagine a RW >archeologist searching for atlantis but instead finds the culture alive and >well in some distant haven. of course returning through the portal would wipe >the memories clean. > Hehe. Maybe I should do this the my players. Then again, I've already planning something really evil agaist them, so I guess I'd put my health at risk if I went through with this as well ;)>> yep. then set up a subsequent adventure where alot of the answersd to their current problems could have been solved by knowledge gained in the adventure that saw their memories cleansed. that way you can egg them on by saying "your character doesn't know that...remember the BoO". << >Wow!!! Two postings in one day. I guess that i am back in active mode. > Yes. Your long exile is now officially over! We welcome you back ;) >> yes....for better or worse i am back in some fashion or form. time is still a factor but when isn't it a factor. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:52:13 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/01 12:38:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, deustace@MEDIAONE.NET writes: << > Add that the rulers of Sind are many and based off of small domains with a > weak but recongized central ruler and the combined political genre could be > as chaotic as a Net Almanac "discussion session". Therefore Sind cannot > formulate a concerted trade system to other nations. There would be too many > old agreements and too many self interests. I love this analogy! LOL Good to see that you are back. >> yep....it seemed a natural fit. it was intended in jest so no one get mad. :-) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:20:57 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Newsgroup access and MMB idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I was accessing the newsgroups regularly in January, > but I have been totally unable to access the > tank.wizards.com news server since early this month. The same happens to me. It's really weird. A hint to fellow MMB-members that, like me, are present on the MML. Try and contact some of the MMB-members whose e-mail you know, and ask them what's happening, or suggest to them to join the MML. Greetings, Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:23:55 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ramses Ramirez wrote: > Hello, > > I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium and wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both the Rules Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new monsters in the newer compendium that the older books do not have? > > Lancer I suggest you to avoid it if you are not a collector. Although each monster is presented in AD&D format (and thus with interesting infos about ecology and society etc.), and the artwork is interesting, it is not worth the expense if you have the Creature Catalog. Moreover, some CC monster is missing. Greetings, Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:24:02 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: the Tangor Region: History MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Swanamutu: ---------------------- the Tangor Region ----------------- History 2'900 BC: The axis change brought by the Great Rain of Fire becomes clear to the Tanagoro humans, who find themselves in colder strokes, where mountains begin to form where once grasslands stood, and where the aurochs and dinosaurs who formed the basis of their existance are dying. Some Tanagoro begin to follow the auroch migrations toward the west, while a consistent group remains in the region. In this part of the history, we will deal only with the Tanagoro that leave westward and settle in the Tangor Empire region. 2500-1600 BC: The western descendants of the Tanagoro tribesmen, who has undergone a cultural change in the past centuries, enter their Dark Age. They are by now reduced to a nomadic, barbaric tribe who has for the most part lost their past simple philosophic attitudes, and retained just their fighting tradition. The nomadic tribes slaughter each other with savage and brutal satisfaction; tribe faidas and raids are exponentially growing, and the chaos reigns over the land. The Tanagoro lose more and more land to the nature and wilderness. This is in part caused of the loss of interest of their patron Immortals, Ka and Korotiku, in them, due to the transplantation of many of them in the Hollow World since 2'500 BC, and especially by the migration of many of the more adventurous, energetic and good-willed Tanagoro (These will become the ancestors of the Pearl Islanders and the Yavdlom). The decline has been slow but constant, and at this time the Tanagoro are very different in manners and behavior. 1'600-1'000 BC: The Tanagoro are pushed further west by the arrive of a new race to the eastern tip of the Skothar continent: they are slowly attacked, infested and replaced by colonies of Hivebroods. When the Tanagoro finally understand what is happening, they begin a continual guerilla against them. 933 BC: A Tanagoro sorcerer rises to prominence in the region surrounding the small town of Sulu by killing a roc that was infesting the village. His name is Lobu. 931 BC: Lobu leaves Sulu, where he has become Tribe-Chief, to search for the fabulous city of Iknaji, mentioned in the Tanagoro legends as the depositary of powerful magics. Sulu has the ambition of stopping the decline of his land, and reunite the Tanagoro in a strong kingdom. 923 BC: Sulu returns to his village. He appears to be paradoxally younger than when he left, although nearly ten years before. But Sulu no longer exists, burnt down in a raid by a nearby village. 922-911 BC: A great wizard that calls himself the Black Sorcerer of Durhan raises a great army and unites Tanagoro from the east coast of the Wide Bay to the western borders of the Hivebrood colonies. He proclaims himself Emperor of Tanagor after 11 years of bloody fights. 854 BC: The Black Sorcerer of Durhan is killed by a Jennite adventurer named Eet-an. The young adventurer is not at all interested in ruling- he did so because he was well payed by a group of Tanagor that couldn't bear anymore the dictatorship of the Black Sorcerer. Unfortunately, although his ruling was harsh, it was the only thing to keep the peace in a devastated land. Now, the situation reverts back to before 1'822, with wars worse than ever, because more civilized and magic studying warlike Tanagors can now fight on a bigger scale with better weapons. The Tanagor are living now mostly in the forested region that surrounds the eastern part of the Tangor Bay; they have mostly abandoned their ancestral areas at the easternmost tip of the Tangor Chain, slowly migrating westwards in the continent; they have been followed by the Hivebrood colonies, who need the humans for their broodlings. 848 BC: Eet-an, now known as the Steel Demon, is a succesful leader of a Tanagor raiding band. He has managed to build a stronghold called Hell's Kitchen, and now his raiding actions are growing to a bigger scale... 841 BC: ...so finally he crowns himself King of Ubu. His kingdom occupies just a small portion of the Tanagor Empire, but is nevertheless a solid institution in the sea of chaos that the Tanagor lands are now. The name Tangor is now being used by the black men of the area, the central "a" dropped for obvious phonetic reasons. 821 BC: The Steel Demon leaves his kingdom during a night with no moon. A voice from the statue of the Immortal Xenon speaks to the crowd saying that the Steel Demon is now one of the Gods, and that the new ruler of the city will come from east 77 days after this. He will bear a recognizable sign of his royal status. 77 days later, an iron golem, appareantly intelligent, enters the city and claims the throne. He assumes the name of Hawa Dulu, and proclaims to be King of Tangor. He then begin heavy military actions in the hope of conquering all the Tangor lands for himself and builds great temples to the Steel Demon in every city of the region. 803 BC: While the remnants of the Kingdom of Ubu crumble to dust, in the capital city of Hell's Kitchen, Hawa Dulu is killed by the statue of the Immortal Xenon, animated by a divine power. The statue proclaims the Steel Demon to be dead, and that it is no longer a God. It also says that all traces of the divinity that led to the destruction of Ubu, giving the power to an incapable golem like Hawa Dulu, must be removed from Tangor. 730-800 BC: The Tangors bordering the Hivebrood colonies manage to open diplomatic relations with the insectoid humanoids. Raiding and guerilla begin to stop, and the two races start to collaborate in the face of the menace coming from the north: a massive migration of Dark Goblins led by a charismatic chief named Ghulan. 696 BC: The Hivebroods and Tangors of the eastern borders repel the goblins. The Dark Goblins settle in the forested regions just at the north of them; Ghulan still leads them to occasional raids in the following years. 665-61 BC: A great campaign conducted by the Hivebrood colony of Lleweryn and the Tangors of the city of Yara defeats the Dark Goblins, whose king Ghulan had died some years before. The campaign is a total carnage: the surviving goblins and hobgoblins are taken as slaves by the two groups, and the Tangor give all their slaves to the Hivebroods in sign of friendship. The insectoids of Lleweryn have now the victims to use for their broodlings; they use their slaves for breeding, and begin to sell goblinoid slaves to the eastern colonies, thus rising to prominence in the area. 700-400 BC: The Tangors create several small tribal kingdoms, centered around small cities ruled by a great chief. The only exception are the Tangor of Yara, that profit by the trade with the Hivebroods; many are employed also as mercenaries by the Hivebroods, especially by the Controllers (ruling hivebroods) of the colony of Lleweryn, who control the monopoly of goblinoid slaves. 463 BC: The Hivebroods are united by the Controllers of Lleweryn in a Great Colony. 400-200 BC: During these two centuries, a dozen of major Tangor kingdoms are formed. 167-153 BC: Four Tangor kingdoms are slowly united by Makala, a woman sorceress and brilliant tactician, into the Empire of Tangor. AC 0 : At the time of Zendrolion�s crowning in Thyatis, there are only five kingdoms in Tangor: the Tangor Empire, the Kingdom of Ubu, the Kingdom of Mawuru, the Principality of Zambul and the Republic of Durhan. AC 193-194: The Republic of Durhan is conquered by Zambul. AC 219-243: The Tangor Empire conquests the kingdoms of Ubu and Mawuru; many Mawurans leave westward, and build the indipendent cities of Akuba and Batu-Fomba. The only other Tangor kingdom to remain indipendent from the Empire is the mountain Principate of Zambul. AC 335: To resist Tangor's aggressive attitude, several Tarystian cities organize a League led by Minaea. The first Tangor War is won by the Tarystians at the Battle of Traun (336 AC). AC 439-446: Second Tangor War. Akuba is conquered by the Tangor Empire. AC 633-42: Great slave revolt in the Hivebrood kingdom. It takes nearly ten years for the insectoid to take again control of the goblins, many of whom manage to flee southwards in the mountains. This leads to increasing tensions with Zambul, who accuse them of raids in the black-skinned humans' lands against their century-long treaties. AC 645-67: Tangor and Lleweryn conquest Zambul after a long war; especially bloody is the battle against the city of Durhan, the last one to fall. Empress Zaila the Ruthless of Tangor donates all the prisoners of Durhanian language as slaves to the Hivebroods in change of the complete suvereignity over Zambul (663). Disgusted by the political move of the Empress, several nobles and cities revolt, but the Empress crush them (667). AC 671-674: Empress Zaila is poisoned by her fourth husband, who seizes the throne of Tangor and leads his people to the rescue of the Tangor slaves. The Hivebroods, irritated by the continual problems they face in the area, leave the region heading eastward in the hope of finding other less proud populations to colonize. They kill all the Tangor slaves they can find, and take with them only the few necessary for their broodlings. They pass through the kingdom of Rathasia, weaking it greatly. The new Emperor, Vamoro III, is thus able to conquer the kingdom. AC 681: The Hivebroods conquer the Duchy of Cymru, and stop there, using the human population as broodlings. AC 701: Emperor Swahimi of Tangor sets a referendum in the provinces of Durhan and Zambul, allowing the population to choose wheter becoming indipendent or remain in the Empire. Durhan chooses indipendence, Zambul remains in the Empire. AC 742: Several Dark Goblin tribes of the mountains are conquered and united by a weird race of female humanoids that call themselves Demonettes. The new kingdom is called Lamu. AC 794: The Demonettes ally themselves with the governor of Ekleke, and begin to prepare the city to regain its indipendence. AC 814-16: Third Tangor war. Tangor loses Akuba, but the city doesn't enter the Minaean League. Moreover, the Mawuran city of Ekleke manages to gain indipendence. Black-men from Batu-Fomba organize a political coup to bring the city in the Confederation, but it is foiled by a young adventurer named Dabo. He is crowned King of the city. AC 823: Demonettes begin to infiltrate the human population of Ekleke. AC 964: Batu Fomba is raided by people from Akuba. AC 967-68: Batu Fomba and the Tangor Empire�s city of Ungkha ally themselves against Akuba. The city is conquered and split in two parts: one controlled by the Governor of Ungkha and the other by the Ruling Council of Batu Fomba. AC 981: Akuba regains its indipendence with the military strenght, led by the politician Trabul. A democratic government is elected. AC 1000: Gazetter time. All informations contained in this Gazetteer are written for this time. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:46:38 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion In-Reply-To: <11.fd5afe9.27bd4717@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was just thinking. Maybe the bead isn't there to protect from total discovery of ancient nithia, but only to protect it's most terrible secrets. After all the reason nithia was removed from the outer world was not because it was inherintly bad but because it turned bad.... The discovery of Nithia is ok, the discovery of evil-nithia is a problem. Is it possible that all the deep dark secrets of nithia lie buried with the BoO. This allows your PC's to learn of nithia, learn the aproximate location of the capital, but never find it or what they are looking for because when they get close they lose interest and forget. Once interest is lost (maybe they become distracted with something else) they wander of and think no mose about the discovery of Nithia, but do not lose the memories of adventures and travels, but find it unimportant and not worth their time. I think if I ever use it this will be how I will employ it. Not all the ruins of nithia hold things to be hidden by the immortals, only certian ones, which will have been destroyed or be well protected, maybe the capital is the only place that they are likely to encounter a BoO while in other places people just don't remember going there, and so it is never discovered. Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:14:24 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Hello, > > > > I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium and wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both the Rules Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new monsters in the newer compendium that the older books do not have? > > > > Lancer > I would recommend getting it if you are interested in learning method and cost for wizards and clerics to create some of the magical constructs which are unique to Mystara, like magen. I believe it also gives instructions on how a wizard can obtain a tabi familiar. This information is found nowhere else. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:19:11 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance In-Reply-To: <007901c09716$ac1a18c0$0265da18@D56DN901> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > No date is set for X4-5. It doesn't fit with WotI > unless it is run during > it, along with X10 (and that isn't a great fit, > since X10 is meant a > sequel). It could conceivably have taken place some > years before Wrath > (c.990's AC), but that would require modifying some > timelines a bit. Now that's an idea that is of interest to me. > In X4, > Sind is really just the Sind Desert, a deserted and > barren wasteland with a > few scattered inhabitants and nomads. The only > settlement mentioned is the > starting point, which is the village of Pramayama. > No cities or cultural > details are given, but the entire adventure does > take place in Sind and the > Plain of Fire beyond. It is implied that the Sindhi > lands are colonies or > protectorates of Darokin (or just the "Republic" in > X4). The Republic > armies simply moved into the lands to fight the > nomads since the locals had > neither the will nor the means to stop them. bugger... It's almost like they wore set several hundred years ago and that is of no bloody help to me. Anyone got any ideas how to reconcile the two? The conspiricy idea was a nice thought, but doidn't quite work. It's pretty tipical though. Oh well at least I know why I thought that draokin believed it's western boarders barren. In light of overwelming evidence brought to my attention in gaz11 however it is fairly clear trade exists, and given the starting point in X4 they've been well into the country. I do however have one thought that could help. Maybe the ports of sind are quite heavilly influenced by draconian merchants. Draokin by operating though sind has a link to the sea, and the two countrys are greatly entwined. If the sindhi ports were primerally draokonian then it would be simple for draokin to maintain a monopoly on sindhi trade by constantly claiming that the rest of sind is just nomads and such. Even their own people don't all know. Draokin as part of it's trade arrangement has to provide assistance in the defence of sind. This means that when the master invades, draokin has mobilized an army (not it's whole force but a sizable one) and is marching into the sind desert. The generals intentionally lead the army by backtracks and the troops thus have no idea about sind proper, why tell them what they don't need to know. The army get's hammered and sind invaded. Draokin attempts to mobilize it's remaining forces but much of the core has dissappeared unexpectedly and it is a while before anything is heard from sind. When the master marches on draokin, the army has just finished assembleing, but is quickly crushed. X10 then takes place as the WDL strikes back. Acctually for not having an explanation at the start, I think that does pretty well. It also leaves a lot of room for a conspiricy and could be great to play. (hey why's there a town here, where'd it come from? theres not ment to be anything here, I've been here before, it's nothing but desert.... ) Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:27:26 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Chris Furneaux Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > So, while many nations would have lost contact with > their far off > colonies, they wouldn't have forgotten about the > SC's existance. > Thus, they can't suddenly find Sind when they > (re)discover them. My impresion was always that they were pretty much cut off because of the red curse. The colinists would not want to go out of the area because they lose their mutations and when they return they get more, and both ways it's quite destressing. And people from the mother country would not go cause they would get mutations, making comunication Nil. Thus the colinists are completly cut off from their mother country, so there is little traffic until someone can find a way around it. (that is why the thought of trade with the savage coast has allways buged me) Chris. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:46:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dave Keyser Organization: Palmchip Subject: how to reconcile X4 and X5 to run them with the current timeline(spoilers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Chris Furneaux wrote: > bugger... It's almost like they wore set several > hundred years ago and that is of no bloody help to me. > Anyone got any ideas how to reconcile the two? The > conspiricy idea was a nice thought, but doidn't quite > work. It's pretty tipical though. Running them in the distant past means you can run them as is, but this doesn't help those who want to run it present day. The good thing is that X4 and X5 are basically an infiltration/espionage adventure, which makes it flexible. X5 ends at the Master's temple in Hule, if the PCs are 100% successful, they have the Master's war plans. X5 states that if these war plans are returned to the Republic, the invading armies will be destroyed. This concept is easily changed to suit your campaign. If you want to run it pre-WOTI, but close in time, say between 980 and 1000AC, then change the starting premise of the module. Have the Darokin military recruit the PCs for a deep spy mission to the west, as the rumors of bandits and desert tribes uniting have grown disturbing. Run the module more or less as is, just drop references to the Republic army already in the field, the PCs never find it anyway. You might also want to eliminate the encounter with the large army, depending on how far back you go. The Master's armies won't be in place until close to 1000AC. If you want to run it during WOTI, you can either have it take place during the Master's war with Sind, or the Master's war with Darokin. I recommend using it during the Master's war with Sind, the PCs are part of volunteer units that Darokin sends to Sind, and the Republic army is actually the Sind army in the field. Actually this is exactly what BoBoII has already recommended. Run the module as is, but at the end of X5, capturing the war plans only slows the Master down, as he is forced to change his plans. In fact, the PCs will repeat what Haldemar did in the Princess Ark series. Then X10 can be run when Hule attacks Darokin. Running X4 and X5 when Hule attacks Darokin will require the PCs to start in Darokin, so you will need to add some detail to get them to the starting point in X4. But basically make the place even more hostile, with military troops occupying all the settlements. Dave Keyser ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:59:09 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > bingo....iirc the traldar have some other ties to nithia as well. same thing > for the anatalians in the hinterlands. > the thyatian peoples were brought to the hinterlands from the north as slaves of the nithians, and gnolls were created through nithian experiments. almost every nation around ylaruam was influenced in some way by nithia,not to mention a large part of the north coast of davania. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:32:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: how to reconcile X4 and X5 to run them with the current timeline(spoilers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:46:29 -0800 Dave Keyser writes: > Running X4 and X5 when Hule attacks Darokin will require the PCs > to start in Darokin, so you will need to add some detail to get > them > to the starting point in X4. But basically make the place even > more > hostile, with military troops occupying all the settlements. IMC, I ran X4 and X5 after the Master's invasion of Darokin had been defeated. Darokin and allies initiated a two pronged attack into Sind. Th surviving Darokinian legions heading west from Akesoli, while Karameikan ships ferried further troops to coastal Sind. By the time X4 started, the southern army (which the PCs were with) had advanced to Pramayarna (X4's starting point) with minimal resistance. The northern army had taken Sayr Ulan, facing only slightly stronger resistance. Chandra ul-Nervi had been reinstated as Rahadjaraja of Sind. At this point, the PCs headed off into the Great Waste to play out X4 and X5 mostly as written. While they were out of contact, the northern army was lured out into the Waste and destroyed by Hulean forces, while Jaibul attacked and defeated the southern army. Sayr Ulan was recaptured by the Master, and Chandra ul-Nervi fled for his life. I replaced the "dervishes" with Chandra ul-Nervi and his personal guard as they headed to Karimari (sp?). Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 22:55:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Re: Wizards newsgroup access (was Beholders) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit WotC has put up a message regarding the MMB problems as of late. You can see it at: http://www.wizards.com/community/main.asp?x=boards Hope this helps everyone! BTW, I was confused by the line, "UBB, however, does not support NNTP access (i.e. using a newsreader)..." How, precisely, do we get to look at the messages on the MMB? On the web? -- Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." ---Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in Trumps Of Doom David Knott wrote: > <--snip--> > > I was accessing the newsgroups regularly in January, > but I have been totally unable to access the > tank.wizards.com news server since early this month. > As far as both of my ISPs are concerned, that server > may as well not exist. > <--snip--> ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:49:28 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Gordon McCormick Subject: Re: Wizards newsgroup access (was Beholders) In-Reply-To: <3A8CA4C4.E42B4391@home.com>; from bradfonseca@HOME.COM on Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 10:55:50PM -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 10:55:50PM -0500, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > http://www.wizards.com/community/main.asp?x=boards > > Hope this helps everyone! BTW, I was confused by the line, "UBB, however, does > not support NNTP access (i.e. using a newsreader)..." How, precisely, do we get > to look at the messages on the MMB? On the web? Doh! Yup, looks like it's web only access from now on. Rats, that was a rather cool feature of the board. Hmm, maybe we should dig news.dnd.starflung.com out of the basement... gordon ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:03:36 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Colin Wilson Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance In-Reply-To: <20010215202726.25004.qmail@web1402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > My impresion was always that they were pretty much cut > off because of the red curse. The colinists would not > want to go out of the area because they lose their > mutations and when they return they get more, and both > ways it's quite destressing. And people from the > mother country would not go cause they would get > mutations, making comunication Nil. Thus the colinists > are completly cut off from their mother country, so > there is little traffic until someone can find a way > around it. (that is why the thought of trade with the > savage coast has allways buged me) Well, I was just re-reading my SC stuff and found a few interesting points. The Red Curse was not really a problem until 1,009. Although it did exist, it was confined to a few areas by Herath. Only the truly insane went anywhere near it. Even the inheritors weren't set up until 999. So trade with the SC and communication were perfectly possible until the last year of the WotI. I would imagine it was distance rather than the curse which meant that the Baronies were independant of Thyatis. As an alternative, one could speculate that Gabronius IV actually threw the Ispan people out of Thyatis (I'm sure a reason for this could be developed). This would explain why the baronies were independant from the start. Cheers, Col. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 05:12:51 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: The Big City Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi folks My players are going to Thyatis City after a thief who stole something from them. I intend to throw them under the city in the Big City (a community of wererats that lies under Thyatis City). Anyone know any canon/non-canon references to it? (besides DotE, PC4 and one event in PWA1011 - these I already found) If not I think I will flesh it out my self, any suggestions? Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:12:41 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/15/01 6:10:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, jobo@EIRCOM.NET writes: << > bingo....iirc the traldar have some other ties to nithia as well. same thing > for the anatalians in the hinterlands. > the thyatian peoples were brought to the hinterlands from the north as slaves of the nithians, and gnolls were created through nithian experiments. almost every nation around ylaruam was influenced in some way by nithia,not to mention a large part of the north coast of davania. mortus. >> thanks for the refresher. oh...i had forgotten to add earlier the nithian influences over in Western Brun. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:29:39 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was giving the BoO some additional thought...particularly on its use. okay...i am sticking with the premise that it acts as a guardian type force for the corruption of nithia. here we go.... PCs/NPCs entering the affect radius of the BoO are not immediately cleansed of any memories of Nithia. it is only upon their leaving the radius that their memories disappear. the reasons for this is to allow the adventurers to continue on in any adventure that has them in the area without forgeting why they are there. this way the flow of the adventure is not immediately affected and memory details are not screwed up. it makes it easier on the DM as well. upon leaving the memories begin to disappear in stages. at best the adventurers have some idea what they have been through but any specific knowledge of nithia is lost. this way gained xp is retained as is any major events that could affect the whole group. for example...the party loses a member. dispite not knowing the nithia attributes the general details of the loss and the situation are retained. or key role playing situations where inner-party relations are strenghtened or weakened. or lost or used magical items can be rembered enough for the adventurers to know that they no longer have them and their absence was due to use/mishap/etc and the item was not stolen. in short...the basic memories on the adventure are retained. however the nithian influences are removed. the ancient catacombs of Hapeth Ra become some old dungeons. of course this brings in another aspect. say the adventurers uncover a few magic items. for whatever reason they cannot identify them and their use. or more precisely...they don't remember the nithian influences of the item that sets it apart. getting back to town the item is further researched and its nithian ties are uncovered through divination or through the efforts of the local "friendly sage for hire". thus the adventurers get a startling revelation as to where they really might have been. of course the shifting sands of the desert could come into play to befuddle second attempts to travel back to the ruins. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:40:35 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Charm Person Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed How powerful do you think charm person should be? Should it automatically give the caster control over the victim? I know in video games, it just made the character "switch sides" during a battle. But in actuality, the victim doesn't really have to befriend the other side, only the caster. Someone I talked to was of the opinion that it's too powerful for a 1st level spell, and he says that charm person cast during battle should merely make the character confused and unable to decide who to fight. Angelo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:42:07 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: how to reconcile X4 and X5 to run them with the current timeline(spoilers) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'll take a moment here to shamelessly plug my PBeM game "Master of the Desert Nomads" which is currently running on phoenyx.net. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6239/ My webmaster has created some nice maps, and has been turning the adventure log into a novelized format. We are also looking for another player at this time, so drop me a line if you are interested in taking over one of our characters. BoBoII BoBoII@aol.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:49:51 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: 3e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A friend of mine was explaining the rules of AD&D3 to me. I really like the way they do some of the things with numbers. I like the way they made everything positive, and the one experience chart for classes and level gaining. I like the simplicity of the "saving throw" and skill testing system (certainly better than ability checks, which I never used anyway), but I still feel like it's a bit arbitrary and lacking something. Of course, I don't have all the details yet. Next week I'm going to sit in with them on one of their games. However, I think they could have done a better with the magic. Maybe they just didn't want to change things too much, but I would like to have seen some kind of mana point system instead. Maybe even a level-restricted system, where characters can can cast X number of spells from a certain level, but they're not set in stone. Maybe that's what the new classes are for... I'm not sure. But one thing that my friend told me, which I definitely do NOT like the idea of, is "battles require a map." Due to the range and combat system, which I don't know every detail of, something really gets lost in doing away with the map to the extent that he was trying to explain how it unbalances the game if you don't have one. Now I'm not sure if I'm convinced of this, since I don't know of all the rules, but I think it's really terrible to require a map. I don't have anything against using a map when it's convenient, but I don't know how many games I played during class in high school where we could just not have used a map. What do you guys think? Angelo Bertolli http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll/dnd/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:52:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 3e In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 16:49 2/16/01 -0000, Angelo Bertolli wrote: >But one thing that my friend told me, which I definitely do NOT like the >idea of, is "battles require a map." Due to the range and combat system, >which I don't know every detail of, something really gets lost in doing away >with the map to the extent that he was trying to explain how it unbalances >the game if you don't have one. Now I'm not sure if I'm convinced of this, >since I don't know of all the rules, but I think it's really terrible to >require a map. I don't have anything against using a map when it's >convenient, but I don't know how many games I played during class in high >school where we could just not have used a map. > >What do you guys think? I think that maps aren't necessary at all. I've been running two 3E campaigns for months now (Five Shires and Karameikos), and as I'm doing it online via chat rooms, we've never had a map, nor needed one. It might be helpful for all those involved to pay closer attention, as combat is a little less abstract, but it by no means has become a super-detailed game requiring visual aids. As long as you remember that, any time someone realisitically is leaving their guard down that their opponents likely get a free whack at them (Attacks of Opportunity, right there), you'll be fine. And they've said that they couldn't change the magic system without alienating a lot of users, and I suspect they're right. It wouldn't have been D&D to me without something like what they've got, although it has been tweaked in a variety of (all good, IMO) ways. (Oh, by the way, everyone, hi! I'm back.) BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ http://www.SpyroHints.com/ - http://comicwire.ComicBookResources.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:11:03 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: 3e > But one thing that my friend told me, which I definitely do NOT like > the idea of, is "battles require a map." Due to the range and combat > system, which I don't know every detail of, something really gets lost > in doing away with the map to the extent that he was trying to explain > how it unbalances the game if you don't have one. Now I'm not sure > if I'm convinced of this, since I don't know of all the rules, but I think > it's really terrible to require a map. I don't have anything against > using a map when it's convenient, but I don't know how many games > I played during class in high school where we could just not have > used a map. You can try to use 3e without a map, but you will hate it. 3e's combat rules really require the map. I have played AD&D games without maps for combat and have always found that every single time the combat would have been smoother and had less arguments if there was a gridded map to place the characters in. The gridded map is to remove ambiguities, which really was the biggest purpose of the transition from past D&D systems to 3e. "Your character is HERE, you can only move THIS many squares. THERE is your front, THERE is you back and THOSE are your flanks. The bad orcs standing behind THAT table run THIS far and now threaten your left flank..." Previously without maps this kind of combat might have decended into a childish argument of ... Player-"Wait a minute, I was there!" DM-"No you weren't, you said you went this far!" Player-"I meant that I'd go to there though and you know that! My character isn't so stupid to get into that vulnerable of a position! Give me a break! ..." Eric Anondson (Just my thoughts on it) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:17:14 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 3e In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:11 2/16/01 -0800, Eric Anondson wrote: >You can try to use 3e without a map, but you will hate it. 3e's combat >rules really require the map. I have played AD&D games without >maps for combat and have always found that every single time the >combat would have been smoother and had less arguments if there >was a gridded map to place the characters in. The gridded map is to >remove ambiguities, which really was the biggest purpose of the >transition from past D&D systems to 3e. > >"Your character is HERE, you can only move THIS many squares. >THERE is your front, THERE is you back and THOSE are your flanks. >The bad orcs standing behind THAT table run THIS far and now >threaten your left flank..." Um, there is no back/front in 3e. You're assumed to be spinning around at all times, facing whatever direction you need to be, unless you have people on opposite sides of you, flanking you, in which case you can't deal with both equally effectively. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ http://www.SpyroHints.com/ - http://comicwire.ComicBookResources.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:40:28 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: 3e In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010216085229.007d3c70@mail.boilingpoint.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Beau wrote: > > I think that maps aren't necessary at all. I've been running two 3E > campaigns for months now (Five Shires and Karameikos), and as I'm doing > it online via chat rooms, we've never had a map, nor needed one. How do you manage attacks of opportunity and movement without a map? I suppose you could use a coordinate system to determine who is adjacent to who, but it would make movement awkward. Movement during combat is entirely determined by threatened areas; without a map you'd lose a great deal of tactical information. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:51:40 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: The Big City MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ricardo Matheus wrote: > Hi folks > > My players are going to Thyatis City after a thief who stole something > from them. I intend to throw them under the city in the Big City (a > community of wererats that lies under Thyatis City). Anyone know any > canon/non-canon references to it? (besides DotE, PC4 and one event in > PWA1011 - these I already found) If not I think I will flesh it out my self, > any suggestions? > > Darkblood Some info appear on MA1016, the last days of the year events, plus other things were written for MA1017...but it's not out, yet. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:51:51 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: 3e In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 09:40 AM 2/16/01 +0000, Mike Harvey wrote: >How do you manage attacks of opportunity and movement without a map? >I suppose you could use a coordinate system to determine who is >adjacent to who, but it would make movement awkward. Movement during >combat is entirely determined by threatened areas; without a map >you'd lose a great deal of tactical information. We're very descriptive in combat, but more story-oriented in our games. "OK, he's got his back to the tent flap leading outside, covering you both with his crossbow. Paul, you're to his right, about six or seven feet away. There's some crates a few feet to your left, not tall enough to hide you, but they come to just under waist height, of you were behind them. Richard, you're a little further from him, equidistant between him and his dog, who's just come in under the bottom of the tent behind you, growling. As much as you want to keep your eyes on the crossbow, you're well-aware that the dog looks awfully mean." Flanking, cover, distances, no map. My players also trust me to be very fair to them and give me more benefit of the doubt than I've seen give to most DMs, it should be said. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ http://www.SpyroHints.com/ - http://comicwire.ComicBookResources.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:29:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Sind and its sudden appearance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit my two kopecs... let's say that at first, the distance kept people from having relations with their old motherlands (even more if they were cast away from it). The navigation in the gulf from Jaibul to Yavdlom is very tricky cause it's a tropical climate with a monsoon (spelling??). That makes travelling by sea very tricky and thus it's more convenient to travel through the sind desert . Now we have to figure out a reason which has prevented the caravans from the city states to reach Sind.(it can be blue dragons, graakalia, desert tribes working for the master....) Back to the sind/darokin and sind/glantri borders. Glantri was not very keen on Sind tendency to theocratize everything (too much religion for Rad there, so let them be in their mountains, as long as their faith doesn't spread to us.....) For darokin, it's harder... It can be a bunch of bandits or a tribe of powerful monsters (maybe the lair of Gargantua the mad wizard ) in the wild hills between the nations which makes the travel very dangerous (maybe too light an explanation) Racism can also be a reason for the darokinian to frown upon those brown skinned fellows living on the edge of the world. But this could not be enough to discourage merchants to trade with this country which offers rare goods that can be sold at very high price on the KW markets. these were my two kopecs.... Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:39:29 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "paul.benfield" Subject: Re: 3e In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, In the games I have run with 3e and also for years with 2e we have always draw out combats free hand on plain paper. (It is better if you have acetate and wipeable marker pens). It is useful to have some idea where characters, NPCs and monsters are relative to one another. I wouldn't go to the level of using a square grid and counting of squares for movement however as it becomes very restrictive and concentrates attention on a Heroquest/board game style of play. We've had no problems with 3e needing maps however as I generally ignore some of the text in spell descriptions etc as really being written for novices learning the game. I first started roleplaying with a game called DragonWarriors (published by Corgi in the UK) which never used a grid for any maps, it just had simple rules of thumb such as 3 people can fight in a 10 foot wide corridor side-by-side if they use stabbing weapons and so on. Any rules system can be adapted to your style of play, 3e included ;-) Paul Benfield (paul.benfield@ntlworld.com) -----Original Message----- From: Mystara [mailto:MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM]On Behalf Of Eric Anondson Sent: 16 February 2001 17:11 To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] 3e > But one thing that my friend told me, which I definitely do NOT like > the idea of, is "battles require a map." Due to the range and combat > system, which I don't know every detail of, something really gets lost > in doing away with the map to the extent that he was trying to explain > how it unbalances the game if you don't have one. Now I'm not sure > if I'm convinced of this, since I don't know of all the rules, but I think > it's really terrible to require a map. I don't have anything against > using a map when it's convenient, but I don't know how many games > I played during class in high school where we could just not have > used a map. You can try to use 3e without a map, but you will hate it. 3e's combat rules really require the map. I have played AD&D games without maps for combat and have always found that every single time the combat would have been smoother and had less arguments if there was a gridded map to place the characters in. The gridded map is to remove ambiguities, which really was the biggest purpose of the transition from past D&D systems to 3e. "Your character is HERE, you can only move THIS many squares. THERE is your front, THERE is you back and THOSE are your flanks. The bad orcs standing behind THAT table run THIS far and now threaten your left flank..." Previously without maps this kind of combat might have decended into a childish argument of ... Player-"Wait a minute, I was there!" DM-"No you weren't, you said you went this far!" Player-"I meant that I'd go to there though and you know that! My character isn't so stupid to get into that vulnerable of a position! Give me a break! ..." Eric Anondson (Just my thoughts on it) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:56:53 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:02:03 Ramses Ramirez wrote: >Hello, > > I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium and wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both the Rules Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new monsters in the newer compendium that the older books do not have? > I don't have the Creature Catalogue or even the Rules Cyclopedia (I know them, but not well enough to compare them the Mystara MC), so I must say that I love the Mystara MC. The art is better than in most of the AD&D MC, at least IMHO (although I think it lacks some entries as a Monster-list that introduces people to Mystara - why is there no entry for the shadowelves, for example?) Some of the entries are a little peculiar too - why are there other-planar creatures (like plasms or fundamentals) in the book? That doesn't seem particularly Mystaran, and some of those did appear in later Planescape MC. Generally, I find this to be among the best MC I have, but then I would as a Mystara fan ;) - The Stalker Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:33:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, The Stalker wrote: > Some of the entries are a little peculiar too - why are there > other-planar creatures (like plasms or fundamentals) in the book? That > doesn't seem particularly Mystaran Those two creatures are Mystaran, in the sense they were in the original Creature Catalogue or Basic D&D books. Planescape just stole them from us :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:44:32 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: 3e In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I've been DMing B10 King's Festival converted for 3e and I've been very happy using the new system and using a grid. I have a chessex map and wet-erase markers and it works great. We've had some amazing combat that I'm sure some expert tactician DMs could have brought into play without a grid but for me was helpful. For instance, I had orcs firing crossbows down a corridor long enough that the players would have been turned into pincushions if they tried to charge them. The players rolled out a table from an orc mess hall and used it as advancing cover to get close to the orcs and engage in melee. All this is certainly possible without a grid, but the explicit distances, cover, and other aspects of the system encouraged this thinking and gave clear ways to adjudicate it. If I were playing in tight corners I'd consider using a sheet of graph paper and pebbles. It would work out great, I think. By the way, I changed the village to be called Stallankov. :) Magus Coeruleus ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:21:54 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: Charm Person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It depends on the situation. Scenario: Marvin the magician's party is being attacked by Clarald the dwarf's party. Clarald the dwarf's party consists of Clarald (LG dwarf), Humboldt (CN halfling thief), Reginald (LG paladin) and Necropoot (CE mage). Now, Marvin's one spell is charm person, so he has to pick his target well. Note...this is by no means a one result situation. This represents simply how the spell COULD play out. The DM should have an idea what each personality is like and what the various possibilities are...he could use this as a definite result or as a modifier to a reaction roll. Results of the charm with... Clarald as Target: Clarald tells his party that they are to cease and desist immediately. If they continue attacking his new friend, then they are either under an evil spell or they were never really his friends to begin with. Clarald then starts clobbering his former friends. Humboldt as Target: Humboldt hides in the shadows to see how things pan out. He may side with one of his friends or the other, depending on what he perceives as his best interest. Reginald as Target: Reginald stands in the middle and begs one side and the other to stop, that its all a misunderstanding. He makes himself a human shield for spells and arrows from both sides and might use nonlethal spells to be the most dangerous...but he will be careful with even this much action, since it could put a person in a helpless situation in the middle of danger. Necropoot: Necropoot, seeing his long lost never before seen friend, immediately turns on his former comrades. He can't wait to animate the corpse of that blasted dwarf and the annoying paladin. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angelo Bertolli" To: Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 11:40 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] Charm Person > How powerful do you think charm person should be? Should it automatically > give the caster control over the victim? I know in video games, it just > made the character "switch sides" during a battle. But in actuality, the > victim doesn't really have to befriend the other side, only the caster. > Someone I talked to was of the opinion that it's too powerful for a 1st > level spell, and he says that charm person cast during battle should merely > make the character confused and unable to decide who to fight. > > Angelo > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:21:11 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mike Donnelly Jr Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous about Nithia? So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most things would set aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the memory of a certain group of 'mere mortals'? The Stalker wrote: > On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:45:14 > Alex Benson wrote: > >In a message dated 2/12/01 8:38:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >alphatian@ANGELFIRE.COM writes: > > > >as for the rest of mystara, the nithians can easily become mysterious. to > >them "NITHIA" is but a term for a long dead civilization. much like > >"Blackmoor" little is known about its exact details. nithian related finds > >are various and inconsistant as colonial influence varies from other colonies > >and from "mother nithia". hence the surviving colony of thothia developed a > >different society and language. these evolutions coming through time, alpher > >influence, and the very religious differences that had thothia avoid nithia's > >fate. in short, thothia should not be a carbon copy of nithia. > > > > Nope. And the Immortals made sure it wasn't. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:16:59 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Armstrong Subject: tank,wizards.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is the WoC news server working as I have not been able to download the newsgroups for about a week, or am I missing something that has changed recently. Sorry for the Off topic post but I cannot post or send to a group, cos I can't get them. Alan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:05:03 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eric Anondson Subject: Re: tank,wizards.com > Is the WoC news server working as I have not been able to > download the newsgroups for about a week, or am I missing > something that has changed recently. >From http://www.wizards.com/community/main.asp?x=boards ------------------------------------ Message Boards Offline As many of you have noticed, the message boards have been inaccessible since Feb 1st. This was not a planned outage, but rather the current iChat system decided to spontaneously combust. After many attempts to revive the system, we have finally pronounced it dead. In its place, Wizards will be converting its many forums over the next week to a UBB web boards system. The UBB boards are widely used, reliable, and flexible boards system that we expect to be a vast improvement over the often slow loading previous system. UBB, however, does not support NNTP access (i.e. using a newsreader) and it will require a separate screen name from the chat system. Thanks for your continued patience on the matter. We plan to be back in full swing by the weekend of the 24th and look forward to your input on the new system. Sincerely, WIZARDS.COMmunity ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:45:22 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous about Nithia? So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most things would set aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the memory of a certain group of 'mere mortals'? << Hehe...this is really a good question, but I can understand your reluctance to bring it up. This is, I guess, one of those potentially hot topics. Well anyway, I'll throw in my 2 cents now. If we look at the Nithia of the HW, there really isn't all that much there that would upset the immortals. The Nithians are a large empire of course. They have quite a bit of powerful magic (pyramid power, sun chariots, and building busters - or whatever they are called), but while their magic is powerful, most of it is confined to within their own borders. Anyway, there is certainly not anything that could upset the rule of the immortals in the HW. So we have to ask the question, "Is the HW Nithia really the Nithia of old? Is it really the Nithia of the outer world that caused such a scare among the immortals?" I think that the answer has to be no. If the ancient (outer world) Nithians caused such a scare among the immortal community as to cause the immortals to wipe the memory of their civilization from history, then why would any immortal want to preserve that in the HW? They wouldn't. I do think however, that what is preserved in the HW is a sort of filtered version of Nithia. The HW version is a version that maintains cultural traits, but that perhaps lacks certain technology possessed by the outer world Nithians. So back to the original question. What was so bad about the outer world Nithians? I think we've talked about this before here on the list. There seems to be evidence that the ancient Nithians possessed magic that could wipe entire towns and cities off of the face of the earth. No immortal (other than perhaps some crazed entropic) would want mere mortals to possess this knowledge. ...So now I'm leaving the realm of canon/semi-canon, and I'll tell you just how I handle this in my campaigns. To understand why the immortals erased Nithia from the world we have to journey back in time...further back than the height of even the Nithian empire. Back to the time of Blackmoor. In 3000 BC the Blackmoorians literally destroyed their world. The exact details are not necessary. Perhaps it was an accident, caused by a faulty interaction between magic and technology. Perhaps it was caused by a malfunctioning Beagle. Perhaps it was caused on purpose by some raving Blackmoorian lunatic who got his hands on a Doomsday waepon of sorts. Whatever the cause, the end effect is the same. So IMC I take a route similar to this one when dealing with the Nithians of old. I say that the Nithians got their hands on some Blackmoorian artifacts and were able to understand them enough that they could at least reproduce their effects to some degree. Most of us think of the Blackmoorians as being fairly technologically advanced (on parr with, or surpassing RW Earth). That doesn't mean the the ancient Nithian culture and technology paralleled that of Blackmoor...only that they were able to reproduce the "effects" of some of that technology. And the technology that they were able to reproduce was fairly devastating. Now since the immortals had already seen what Blackmoor could do to the world, they weren't about to let the Nithians do the same thing. Instead they decided to remove all knowledge of Nithia from the world as a pre-emptive strike to insure that the Great Rain of Fire was a one time only event. Beware any PC that should get their hands on ancient Nithian (or Blackmoorian) artifacts. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:00:41 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Mike Donnelly Jr Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for a very non-controversial answer to a potential flame war question. John Calvin wrote: > So back to the original question. What was so bad about the outer world Nithians? I > think we've talked about this before here on the list. There seems to be evidence that > the ancient Nithians possessed magic that could wipe entire towns and cities off of the > face of the earth. No immortal (other than perhaps some crazed entropic) would want mere > mortals to possess this knowledge. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:46:52 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:45:22 -0800 John Calvin writes: > >> > Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so > dangerous about Nithia? > So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most > things would set > aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the > memory of a certain group > of 'mere mortals'? > << I believe one possibility that was mentioned earlier was that the Nithians started to worship the Carnifex and the Outer Beings, which would unite all the Immortals against them, even Entropics. Some suggested that this appened because Thanatos's corruption worked too well. Others then suggested that this was on purpose, that Thanatos purposely lead them to that forbidden lore so that Nithia would be destroyed, which did far more to help the cause of Entropy than hurt it. Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/anowack/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:31:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Marco Fossati Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nithia currently in HW is fully different from the one of KW. IIRC the Ka and the other immortals that create HW always choose who must be brought to the hollow world. And they usually choose the best elements of a culture. So in HW Nithia is a powerful and strong nation and reveres good immortals, instead of that of KW. Cheers, Marco Fossati ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 13:12:58 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: DM Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Michael Diehm wrote: <> >Regent Pass Aasla to Norwold >Heldannic Gulf of Mar Fortress to Freiburg >Immortal's Home Immortal's Home Volcano to and from Minroth's home plane ?? These three sound completely new to me... where did u find them, Michael? Also, IIRC Regent Pass is just a mountain pass that leads from Norwold hinterlands to the Alphan peninsula ... I'd be really interested to know where they come from. DM Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn "You don't stop playing because you grow old: you grow old because you stop playing!" Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 And Mystara Italian Homepage at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 Join the Mystara Webring at: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html Join the Starfleet Academy at: http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:41:43 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I had to do some thinking too. Regent Pass' gate came into existence some time between M1 and M2. Its shown on the map in M2 "Vengeance of Alphaks" but very little is said about it. I ran my players through an adventure that began with Prince Zandor smugly arriving through the newly built gate and informing the royal court that it had been set there for the kingdom's "protection". There were many connotations...including insults directed at the king, his wife, and the lords. The lords then had to go to Alphatia to present themselves to the Empress, to help reassure her about some delayed taxes... I wrote a series of short stories that I posted here at some point a couple of years ago... ----- Original Message ----- From: "DM" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > Michael Diehm wrote: > > <> > > >Regent Pass Aasla to Norwold > >Heldannic Gulf of Mar Fortress to Freiburg > >Immortal's Home Immortal's Home Volcano to and from Minroth's home > plane > > ?? > These three sound completely new to me... where did u find them, Michael? > Also, IIRC Regent Pass is just a mountain pass that leads from Norwold hinterlands to the Alphan peninsula ... > I'd be really interested to know where they come from. > > > DM > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > > "You don't stop playing because you grow old: > you grow old because you stop playing!" > > Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > And Mystara Italian Homepage at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 > > Join the Mystara Webring at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > Join the Starfleet Academy at: > http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:40:39 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: tank,wizards.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Alan Armstrong" > Is the WoC news server working as I have not been able to download the > newsgroups for about a week, or am I missing something that has changed > recently. It's dead Jim -- according to the Wizards site, the newsgroups are dead and won't be coming back. They hope to put up a new set of message boards around the 24th, but they won't be accessible to newsreaders. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:03:13 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: tank,wizards.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Knott wrote: > From: "Alan Armstrong" > >> Is the WoC news server working as I have not been able to download the >> newsgroups for about a week, or am I missing something that has changed >> recently. > > > It's dead Guys, once again I suggest that we e-mail all the MMB members we know to ask them to join the MML. We can't miss people like John Hare and Francesco Unknown Surname, or all the others friends of the MMB. And this could be the way to join our forces! Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marco, The gate from Aaasla to Regent Pass is found in M2. It is a contigency used to gate in an Alphatian occupation force if Norwold falls to Thyatis. My impression that it was a temporary gate created by some powerful Alphatian wizards to facilitate mass transport of their troops. It could be permanent, though depending on indivudual campaigns. This never happend when I ran M2, as Norwold was able to neutralize the Flying Castle before the Thyatians invaded. Not before it devastated a few dominions, PC and NPC alike... Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "DM" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > Michael Diehm wrote: > > <> > > >Regent Pass Aasla to Norwold > >Heldannic Gulf of Mar Fortress to Freiburg > >Immortal's Home Immortal's Home Volcano to and from Minroth's home > plane > > ?? > These three sound completely new to me... where did u find them, Michael? > Also, IIRC Regent Pass is just a mountain pass that leads from Norwold hinterlands to the Alphan peninsula ... > I'd be really interested to know where they come from. > > > DM > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > > "You don't stop playing because you grow old: > you grow old because you stop playing!" > > Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > And Mystara Italian Homepage at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 > > Join the Mystara Webring at: > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > Join the Starfleet Academy at: > http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:14:51 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dan Eustace Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kind of a way of keeping the colony under the Empress's thumb, huh? I like it. IMC, Norwold has struggled for true independence, but it still is closely associated with Alphatia, and are allied with them vs. Thyatis during WotI. BTW, I'm assuming that you're the same Jeff Daly that worked for TSR. If so, could you refresh my memory on what stuff you authored? Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Daly" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 8:41 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > I had to do some thinking too. Regent Pass' gate came into existence some > time between M1 and M2. Its shown on the map in M2 "Vengeance of Alphaks" > but very little is said about it. I ran my players through an adventure > that began with Prince Zandor smugly arriving through the newly built gate > and informing the royal court that it had been set there for the kingdom's > "protection". There were many connotations...including insults directed at > the king, his wife, and the lords. > > The lords then had to go to Alphatia to present themselves to the Empress, > to help reassure her about some delayed taxes... > > I wrote a series of short stories that I posted here at some point a couple > of years ago... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DM" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 7:12 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > > > > Michael Diehm wrote: > > > > < multiverse? Or maybe where a planar invasion might occur to startle a jaded > dominion ruler into action ? Well this list of gates, portals and wormholes > from published materials may help.>> > > > > >Regent Pass Aasla to Norwold > > >Heldannic Gulf of Mar Fortress to Freiburg > > >Immortal's Home Immortal's Home Volcano to and from Minroth's home > > plane > > > > ?? > > These three sound completely new to me... where did u find them, Michael? > > Also, IIRC Regent Pass is just a mountain pass that leads from Norwold > hinterlands to the Alphan peninsula ... > > I'd be really interested to know where they come from. > > > > > > DM > > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > > > > "You don't stop playing because you grow old: > > you grow old because you stop playing!" > > > > Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > > And Mystara Italian Homepage at: > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 > > > > Join the Mystara Webring at: > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > > Join the Starfleet Academy at: > > http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:33:05 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Newsgroup access and MMB idea MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Caroletti" > > The same happens to me. > It's really weird. > A hint to fellow MMB-members that, like me, are present on the MML. > Try and contact some of the MMB-members whose e-mail you know, and > ask them what's happening, or suggest to them to join the MML. Or just suggest that they join the MML -- the MMB is dead in its newsgroup form. Wizards plans to set up new message boards about the 24th, but they will be accessible only via a Web browser (not good for folks like me who prefer to do most of my reading and replying off-line). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:24:35 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:33:36 SteelAngel wrote: >On Fri, 16 Feb 2001, The Stalker wrote: > > >> Some of the entries are a little peculiar too - why are there >> other-planar creatures (like plasms or fundamentals) in the book? That >> doesn't seem particularly Mystaran > >Those two creatures are Mystaran, in the sense they were in the original >Creature Catalogue or Basic D&D books. > >Planescape just stole them from us :) > Yes, I forgot to point out that I am aware of that fact. It's just that when a MC says 'Mystara' on the cover (or whatever campaign world), I expect it to have creatures in it who actually live on that world and not the outer planes, particularly for AD&D sources, which is where Mystara officially belonged at that point - creatures from the other planes should have gone into the various Planescape MC (as they eventually did) or the Outer Plane MC (same thing) because Mystara's multiverse was officially no different from that of Greyhawk, FR, or Dragonlance at the time, being part of AD&D. Now, I know that a *lot* of people disagree wildly with that, but that was what TSR was trying to establish at the time (never seemed to make much difference to me, to tell you the truth - I'd rather have all the worlds have the same multiverse reality). - The Stalker Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:14:46 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: KoRneR Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) In-Reply-To: <20010216224522.16401.qmail@web1205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On 16 Feb, John Calvin wrote: > [..] There seems to be evidence that > the ancient Nithians possessed magic that could wipe entire towns and cities off of the > face of the earth. No immortal (other than perhaps some crazed entropic) would want mere > mortals to possess this knowledge. > Back to the time of Blackmoor. In 3000 BC the Blackmoorians literally destroyed their > world. The exact details are not necessary. Perhaps it was an accident, caused by a > faulty interaction between magic and technology. Perhaps it was caused by a > malfunctioning Beagle. Perhaps it was caused on purpose by some raving Blackmoorian > lunatic who got his hands on a Doomsday waepon of sorts. Whatever the cause, the end > effect is the same. > Most of us think of the Blackmoorians as being fairly technologically advanced (on parr > with, or surpassing RW Earth). That doesn't mean the the ancient Nithian culture and > technology paralleled that of Blackmoor...only that they were able to reproduce the > "effects" of some of that technology. > Now since the immortals had already seen what Blackmoor could do to the world, they > weren't about to let the Nithians do the same thing. Instead they decided to remove all > knowledge of Nithia from the world as a pre-emptive strike to insure that the Great Rain > of Fire was a one time only event. On 16 Feb, Aaron E. Nowack wrote: > I believe one possibility that was mentioned earlier was that the > Nithians started to worship the Carnifex and the Outer Beings, which > would unite all the Immortals against them, even Entropics. Here's some rambling mumbo-jumbo from someone who has minimum knowledge of anything related to Mystara, but a knack for good ideas. Here's a version of everything before mentioned that I offer you, and will try to use IMC so I would like you to read this and tell me what could be done better, what is needless and what is absolutly ingenious :)) So, Blackmoor is the source? Reading the posts in here I gather that Blackmoorians were technological nation. And I suppose USS Beagle was some kind of a ship. Now, first of my holes in knowledge, would somenoe relate some facts of Beagle to me and clarify it's use, purpose and design? thanx. Let's go for the mass destruction of towns and cities. So they make a weapon that can cause mass destruction, and as my idea, Beagle can be used for space/planes travel or they have made a device that can transport people to any plane at will (all-purpose portal). But let's say that they never got to fully use it all, since something (Beagle?) eventually exploded and made a hole where Blakmoore was. Now, Nithians discover the Blackmoore ruins and rumors. Suppose at this time they are good-aligned nation as HW Nithia. They discover the mass destruction weapon, all-purpose portal but not Beagle (since it is now a sun in the HW, right?). Not all of the Blackmoorian technology is recovered, so they still resemble RW Egyptians, but more powerful and technological now (remember the Stargate movie) with a portal to other worlds and planes. What Aaron mentioned above could be the reason why Immortals started to plot Nithia's demise. At this point they would turn evil. They would have used portals to transport people to Nithia from other worlds (for who knows what reason), they would have accepted Gods from other planes as more powerful (maybe Immortals are petitioners?), discovered the secret of the NoS (acheiving Immortality) etc. etc. All evil because their plot was this: use the NoS to achieve Immortallity by gaining power by destruction of Mystara and transporting themselves through portal somewhere where they will continue their quest to become Gods. Of course not ALL Nithians, but those most powerful (pharaoh searching for more power..) Now, this is something that simply could not be, right? So, BoO is made, Oblivion is cast on Mystara, Nithians are destroyed and transported to HW. Maybe oblivion on them too, reverting them to "just" RW Egyptians :) Lot of work, but a grandeur story! Don't you think? OK, some gaps could be filled, errors corrected etc. but that's exactly why I'm wiriting it here.. BTW sorry for bad english, if any :) and some more questions: - I asked already about the engine of the USS Beagle and the Beagle itself; - when exactly does that day without magic occur? - In the Red Steel (i.e. Savage Coast) campaign book, there is no mention of the "Day of Dread". if it does occur however, as normaly as it does in all Mystara, how do Herathians fight it? - and some more I'll remember later.. sorry for bragging, dragging and all the boredom.. greetings, KoRneR (a.k.a. Ivan Stanojevic) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- PFCode: v1.2a r+d>s BO 0/0/ FD 0- 0 TFC 3 0 99.3% <18nov0> ICQ#: 32555524 feeling like a mail: reaper@galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu freak on a leash. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:30:49 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead ofOblivion) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Several mails put together here... Mike Donnelly Jr wrote: >>>> Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous about Nithia? > So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most things would set >aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the memory of a certain group >of 'mere mortals'? ><< Why are you worried about doing this? I think it's a very good and legitimate question, and I remember having discussed it before, not from the topics of the Bead of Oblivion or why the Immortals were so angry with the Nithians, but it scarcely matters when the end effect is the same. Yes, we'll be leaving canon because canon has no references to this, but it doesn't mean we can't speculate. I remember having done so at least once before on the list and if there was anything inflamatory as a result then I must either have missed it or it must have been before I joined the MML. >On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:45:22 John Calvin wrote: (snip) > >If we look at the Nithia of the HW, there really isn't all that much there that would >upset the immortals. The Nithians are a large empire of course. They have quite a bit >of powerful magic (pyramid power, sun chariots, and building busters - or whatever they >are called), but while their magic is powerful, most of it is confined to within their >own borders. Anyway, there is certainly not anything that could upset the rule of the >immortals in the HW. > >So we have to ask the question, "Is the HW Nithia really the Nithia of old? Is it really >the Nithia of the outer world that caused such a scare among the immortals?" I think >that the answer has to be no. Agreed. > If the ancient (outer world) Nithians caused such a scare >among the immortal community as to cause the immortals to wipe the memory of their >civilization from history, then why would any immortal want to preserve that in the HW? >They wouldn't. I do think however, that what is preserved in the HW is a sort of filtered >version of Nithia. The HW version is a version that maintains cultural traits, but that >perhaps lacks certain technology possessed by the outer world Nithians. > Technology? >So back to the original question. What was so bad about the outer world Nithians? I >think we've talked about this before here on the list. There seems to be evidence that >the ancient Nithians possessed magic that could wipe entire towns and cities off of the >face of the earth. No immortal (other than perhaps some crazed entropic) would want mere >mortals to possess this knowledge. > >...So now I'm leaving the realm of canon/semi-canon, and I'll tell you just how I handle >this in my campaigns. To understand why the immortals erased Nithia from the world we >have to journey back in time...further back than the height of even the Nithian empire. >Back to the time of Blackmoor. In 3000 BC the Blackmoorians literally destroyed their >world. The exact details are not necessary. Perhaps it was an accident, caused by a >faulty interaction between magic and technology. Perhaps it was caused by a >malfunctioning Beagle. Perhaps it was caused on purpose by some raving Blackmoorian >lunatic who got his hands on a Doomsday waepon of sorts. Whatever the cause, the end >effect is the same. > >So IMC I take a route similar to this one when dealing with the Nithians of old. I say >that the Nithians got their hands on some Blackmoorian artifacts and were able to >understand them enough that they could at least reproduce their effects to some degree. >Most of us think of the Blackmoorians as being fairly technologically advanced (on parr >with, or surpassing RW Earth). That doesn't mean the the ancient Nithian culture and >technology paralleled that of Blackmoor...only that they were able to reproduce the >"effects" of some of that technology. And the technology that they were able to >reproduce was fairly devastating. > >Now since the immortals had already seen what Blackmoor could do to the world, they >weren't about to let the Nithians do the same thing. Instead they decided to remove all >knowledge of Nithia from the world as a pre-emptive strike to insure that the Great Rain >of Fire was a one time only event. > Personally I don't like that idea, but then I don't care much for the Blackmoorian artifacts (or anything Blackmoorian for that matter) in the first place, so it's hardly surprising. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the idea, though. In fact, I think it makes a disturbing lot of sense, I'm just not inclined to use it IMC. It still seems like a rather flawless explanation though. >Beware any PC that should get their hands on ancient Nithian (or Blackmoorian) artifacts. > Or any PCs in D&D using any sort of technology for that matter! ;) --- On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:46:52 Aaron E Nowack wrote: >On Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:45:22 -0800 John Calvin >writes: >> >> >> Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so >> dangerous about Nithia? >> So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most >> things would set >> aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the >> memory of a certain group >> of 'mere mortals'? >> << > >I believe one possibility that was mentioned earlier was that the >Nithians started to worship the Carnifex and the Outer Beings, which >would unite all the Immortals against them, even Entropics. > >Some suggested that this appened because Thanatos's corruption worked too >well. > >Others then suggested that this was on purpose, that Thanatos purposely >lead them to that forbidden lore so that Nithia would be destroyed, which >did far more to help the cause of Entropy than hurt it. > I was just about to argue that this wouldn't have happened because Thanatos was hurt by this and would have brought about worship of the OBs if it was obvious that the other Immortals would be quite that angry with him, but you're right - leading a society to worship of forbidden beings such as the OBs is just the sort of thing Thanatos would do if it ends up destroying a civilization. It's not like Thanatos to have it blow up in his face like it does here, but then there might be a lot more to the story than we know... I like this idea better than John's Blackmoorian technology suggestion, but I have one of my own which grew out of my use of the AD&D 2e player option book, Spells & Magic. In the book several systems of magic are suggested, but rather than go with one of them, I decided that they all represented fundamental parts of the basics of magic IMC. One of them was a problem, however, because one system open to wizards is Defilers/Preservers (much like the Dark Sun campaign). I wanted to keep the basic rules of how magic functions the same, but if I did that, then most PCs would have to be Perservers, but in that case Defilers would be extraordinarily powerful, and we (i.e., DMs) all know how players are in this regard, don't we? ;) So I came upon the idea that the Nithians had discovered Defiling magic. This solved two problems for me. The first was that I got rid of Defilers because the Immortals destroyed the Nithians (and thus would be inclined to see to it that subsequent Defilers were also hunted down!). The second was that since Defiling drains the lifeforce of the surrounding terrain, killing any vegetation, I had a really good explanation why there was an arid, desert nation right between the norse Northern Reaches and Thyatis (others have suggested more good options, for example that to create the huge Canolbarth forest of Alfheim (which shouldn't be able to grow in this environment in the first place) elven wizards steal away the ground water of Ylaruam with their magic). I use all of these suggestions, but although I might tell my players differently, the use of Defiling magic is really what turned the land into a desert. The players won't know that, however, because the Immortals destroyed Nithia to cover it up, perhaps from fear that what happened on Athas (the barren desert world of the Dark Sun campaign) might also have happen on Mystara. --- On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 09:31:23 Marco Fossati wrote: >Nithia currently in HW is fully different from the one of KW. IIRC the Ka >and the other immortals that create HW always choose who must be brought to >the hollow world. And they usually choose the best elements of a culture. >So in HW Nithia is a powerful and strong nation and reveres good immortals, >instead of that of KW. > Perhaps. I tend to think of what they do in the sense that they merely preserve the least 'tainted', 'spoiled', or 'corrupted' city, village, whatever... - The Stalker Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 22:34:34 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: Charm Person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > How powerful do you think charm person should be? Should it automatically > give the caster control over the victim? I know in video games, it just > made the character "switch sides" during a battle. But in actuality, the > victim doesn't really have to befriend the other side, only the caster. > Someone I talked to was of the opinion that it's too powerful for a 1st > level spell, and he says that charm person cast during battle should merely > make the character confused and unable to decide who to fight. > > Angelo This is how I handle Charm Person in my campaign: If the person that has had Charm Person cast on him and failed his saving throw vs spells then he is under the impression that the caster is his best friend, and will do all that is necessary to protect the caster (and only the caster). The person will not do things that is against his nature, nor something that is obviously suicidal, both will cause the spell to fail. Also if the caster attacks the charmed character then the charm will fail. I've actually had situations where a character who has been charmed, has tried to reason with his companions (as they too are his friends) to leave the caster alone. Of course, when they made a hostile action against the caster, then the charmed character attacked them, but he did try reasoning with them first. There is one last thing I use: I remember reading in one of the OD&D books (the old expert rules (blue book) I think) that a Charm Person spell only affects creatures or characters of 6 HD (or levels) or lower, so I also enforce this rule too. Hope this helps. Phil (aka Alexander Korrigan, humble student of the Great School of Magic) "I'm not evil. Just practical." P.S. Welcome back Beau :) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:38:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Norwold during WotI (was: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 12:14:51 Dan Eustace wrote: >Kind of a way of keeping the colony under the Empress's thumb, huh? I like >it. IMC, Norwold has struggled for true independence, but it still is >closely associated with Alphatia, and are allied with them vs. Thyatis >during WotI. (snip rest) Didn't civil war break out in Norwold during WotI? IIRC there is a reference to that somewhere in that boxed set... Not that TSR ever bothered to detail it or even mention it in the subesequent Alamanacs :( - The Stalker Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 18:41:37 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jeff Daly Subject: Re: GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Are you thinking of Jeff Grubb? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Eustace" To: Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > Kind of a way of keeping the colony under the Empress's thumb, huh? I like > it. IMC, Norwold has struggled for true independence, but it still is > closely associated with Alphatia, and are allied with them vs. Thyatis > during WotI. > BTW, I'm assuming that you're the same Jeff Daly that worked for TSR. If > so, could you refresh my memory on what stuff you authored? > > Dan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Daly" > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 8:41 AM > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > > > > I had to do some thinking too. Regent Pass' gate came into existence some > > time between M1 and M2. Its shown on the map in M2 "Vengeance of Alphaks" > > but very little is said about it. I ran my players through an adventure > > that began with Prince Zandor smugly arriving through the newly built gate > > and informing the royal court that it had been set there for the kingdom's > > "protection". There were many connotations...including insults directed > at > > the king, his wife, and the lords. > > > > The lords then had to go to Alphatia to present themselves to the Empress, > > to help reassure her about some delayed taxes... > > > > I wrote a series of short stories that I posted here at some point a > couple > > of years ago... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "DM" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 7:12 AM > > Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] GATES/PORTALS/WORMHOLES OF MYSTARA > > > > > > > Michael Diehm wrote: > > > > > > < the > > multiverse? Or maybe where a planar invasion might occur to startle a > jaded > > dominion ruler into action ? Well this list of gates, portals and > wormholes > > from published materials may help.>> > > > > > > >Regent Pass Aasla to Norwold > > > >Heldannic Gulf of Mar Fortress to Freiburg > > > >Immortal's Home Immortal's Home Volcano to and from Minroth's home > > > plane > > > > > > ?? > > > These three sound completely new to me... where did u find them, > Michael? > > > Also, IIRC Regent Pass is just a mountain pass that leads from Norwold > > hinterlands to the Alphan peninsula ... > > > I'd be really interested to know where they come from. > > > > > > > > > DM > > > Senior Editor of the Mystaran Almanac > > > First Officer of U.S.S. Unicorn > > > > > > "You don't stop playing because you grow old: > > > you grow old because you stop playing!" > > > > > > Visit Marco's Mystara Homepage at: > > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967 > > > And Mystara Italian Homepage at: > > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/9940 > > > > > > Join the Mystara Webring at: > > > http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/2967/mystring.html > > > Join the Starfleet Academy at: > > > http://gioco.net/startrek (Italian RPG PBEM) > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 00:31:25 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead ofOblivion) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit *** SPOILER WARNING!!! *** IF YOU'RE A PLAYER, READ NO FURTHER!!! On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:14:46 KoRneR wrote: > (snip what John and Aaron said - already commented...) > >Here's some rambling mumbo-jumbo from someone who has minimum knowledge of >anything related to Mystara, but a knack for good ideas. Here's a version >of everything before mentioned that I offer you, and will try to use IMC >so I would like you to read this and tell me what could be done better, >what is needless and what is absolutly ingenious :)) > >So, Blackmoor is the source? Reading the posts in here I gather that >Blackmoorians were technological nation. Yup. > And I suppose USS Beagle was some >kind of a ship. Very much so. > Now, first of my holes in knowledge, would somenoe relate >some facts of Beagle to me and clarify it's use, purpose and design? > Okay, here is the real truth. The Beagle was a starship (or spaceship, voidship, whatever)! Long before the rise of Blackmoor, the Beagle was traveling through space, but it crashed on Mystara near the Blackmoor area (a very primitive society at the time). The Blackmoorians found this ship and were able to build a civilization copying its technology, but eventually something went wrong and Blackmoor was utterly destroyed chaging the axis of Mystara so that Blackmoor's location became the new north pole. The engines of the Beagle survived buried in the ice, however. Eventually some Immortal or other godly busybody moved this artifact to belong where Glantri is today (I hate it when they do that! ;) ) The engines are now known as the Nucleus of the Spheres (NoS) and is the source of the Radiance which is used both by the Glantrians and (unknown to most) the shadowelves. This artifact was eventually used to allow people to become Immortals in the sphere of Energy, however, so Immortals of the other spheres changed it so that every time this happened magic would be drained from Mystara. This magic could not be replaced so use of the NoS would eventually drain Mystara of all magic if the NoS was used. This was the basis of conflict that led to the war among the Immortals during WotI, because some Immortals wanted the drain to stop while others wanted to explore its limits. > >Let's go for the mass destruction of towns and cities. So they make a >weapon that can cause mass destruction, and as my idea, Beagle can be used >for space/planes travel or they have made a device that can transport >people to any plane at will (all-purpose portal). But let's say that they >never got to fully use it all, since something (Beagle?) eventually >exploded and made a hole where Blakmoore was. > The engine part of Beagle is buried beneath Glantri. The radiation is so strong that nobody (except Immortals) can go there without being killed (although the PCs are given items that allow them to do so at the end of WotI) >Now, Nithians discover the Blackmoore ruins and rumors. Suppose at this >time they are good-aligned nation as HW Nithia. Not sure if I'd call HW Nithia 'good'. They're not evil, but... > They discover the mass >destruction weapon, all-purpose portal but not Beagle (since it is now a >sun in the HW, right?). No. The only thing left of the Beagle is the engine, the NoS I mentioned above, beneath Glantri City. At least as far we're told by canon - there might be more out there, but IIRC none of it is mentioned (except for the stuff Rheddrian has in WotI). But there is a lot of old canon material I've never read, so... > Not all of the Blackmoorian technology is >recovered, so they still resemble RW Egyptians, but more powerful and >technological now (remember the Stargate movie) with a portal to other >worlds and planes. > >What Aaron mentioned above could be the reason why Immortals started to >plot Nithia's demise. At this point they would turn evil. They would have >used portals to transport people to Nithia from other worlds (for who >knows what reason), That is just the point, why would would they? We'd better have an answer if we're going to use the idea, I think! > they would have accepted Gods from other planes as >more powerful (maybe Immortals are petitioners?), discovered the secret of >the NoS (acheiving Immortality) etc. etc. > Probably not the NoS, but yes... >All evil because their plot was this: use the NoS to achieve Immortallity >by gaining power by destruction of Mystara and transporting themselves >through portal somewhere where they will continue their quest to become >Gods. The NoS is unlikely, but I guess it could be replaced by a similar item. > Of course not ALL Nithians, but those most powerful (pharaoh >searching for more power..) > Actually the Pharaoh of Nithia did become an Immortal, Noumena, although he's not a very nasty person, he's actually rather neutral, alignment-wise. Then again, he did abdicate to explore the world before the fall of Nithia, so your idea could apply to the rest of Nithia. >Now, this is something that simply could not be, right? So, BoO is made, >Oblivion is cast on Mystara, Nithians are destroyed and transported to HW. >Maybe oblivion on them too, reverting them to "just" RW Egyptians :) > Not doubt, since people moved to the HW are always stripped of their memories of the outer world so that they'll believe they always lived in the HW. The only exception to this rule are Alphatians above 9th level, who were allowed to retain their memories of the outer world, while Alphatians below 9th level (i.e., the vast majority of the population) had their memories wiped 'as usual' (and they wonder why we're strange!! ;) ) >Lot of work, but a grandeur story! Don't you think? OK, some gaps could be >filled, errors corrected etc. but that's exactly why I'm wiriting it >here.. BTW sorry for bad english, if any :) > I feel the same way about your plot as I do about the one John suggested, and for exactly the same reason - it involves Blackmoorian technology which I don't care so much for :) >and some more questions: >- I asked already about the engine of the USS Beagle and the Beagle >itself; >- when exactly does that day without magic occur? This is called the 'Day of Dread' (DoD). It always occurs at the last day of the year on the Thyatian calendar, i.e., Kaldmont 28. >- In the Red Steel (i.e. Savage Coast) campaign book, there is no mention >of the "Day of Dread". if it does occur however, as normaly as it does in >all Mystara, how do Herathians fight it? They can't. It is possible that the DoD is not mentioned because the Red Steel was released as an AD&D campaign expansion to be put into any world, not just Mystara. In that case the DoD might not occur at all, but on Mystara it will occur! I can think of no way the Herathians could fight it, but they might do what many wizards do and flee to some other plane until the day has passed. (snip rest) - The Stalker Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:04:05 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mgelman Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead of Oblivion) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > So, Blackmoor is the source? Reading the posts in here I gather that > Blackmoorians were technological nation. And I suppose USS Beagle was some > kind of a ship. Now, first of my holes in knowledge, would somenoe relate > some facts of Beagle to me and clarify it's use, purpose and design? > thanx. The Beagle belonged to the Galactic Survey Bureau and was a spaceship. Its purpose was exploration, geological and biological, of the galaxy. A power plant explosion forced the ship to crash-land on ancient Mystara, south of the minor kingdom of Blackmoor, which rose to prominence in part due to the technology gained from explorations of the Beagle and dealings with its crew. About 1200X3300 yards, guestimating from the map. The systems were only partially functional even 1000 years before Blackmoor collapsed, so I'm not sure how significant a role it could have had in future events. I never linked the Blackmoor and Nithian extinctions - one is the result of human arrogance and overreliance upon technology and the other is merely corruption resulting from immortal interference. Why mix two very different negative elements of history? - Mischa No one on his deathbed ever said, "I wish I'd spent more time on my business" - Paul Tsongas ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 02:40:31 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Charm Person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/01 11:42:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, abertoll@HOTMAIL.COM writes: << How powerful do you think charm person should be? Should it automatically give the caster control over the victim? I know in video games, it just made the character "switch sides" during a battle. But in actuality, the victim doesn't really have to befriend the other side, only the caster. Someone I talked to was of the opinion that it's too powerful for a 1st level spell, and he says that charm person cast during battle should merely make the character confused and unable to decide who to fight. >> good point. about a year or so a similar question came up about this spell, though the thread concerned the infamous "tech vs. magic" subject. both then and now i state that i do not like the Charm Spell as it is potentially too powerful and can too easily be taken out of its original context. jeff gave some really good scenarios that, IMO, illustrate varying uses and results of the spell. i would also suggest that inner party relationships and interaction play heavily into the results. deep and longstanding friendships and working relationships between party members make confusion more prone or at least the charmed pc tries to seek a solution between his old friends and his new magically induced friend. conversely, party members that do not get along have any resentment/animosity amplified....thus conflict could erupt. hirelings and newcomers to the party could be affected more based on their limited loyalty to the party. anyway....the affect has deeper repurcussions far beyond the simple passages in the spell descript. i would let the DM have a bit of leeway in implementing this spell in any combat situation. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 03:09:34 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/01 4:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, hersh67@BELLATLANTIC.NET writes: << Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous about Nithia? So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on most things would set aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping out the memory of a certain group of 'mere mortals'? >> actually that is a very good question. nithia's downfal is a bit vague, however i see it as not being any worse than many of the present day mystaran cultures. so, the question of why the immortals punished the nithians so harshly really should be asked. IMO back then the world of mystara was very different. human cultures were relatively young and there really was not alot of precident to go on in overseeing their developements. plus these same immortals were fewer and were not as representative of the mystaran nations as the present day retinue is. the immortals back then could have been horrified at how the human cultures were developing and applied their morale issues and doctrines upon them. later, as more immortals rose into the ranks, the subsequent human cultures continued and perhaps overshadowed any decadence and corruption that the nithians exhibited. however, the immortals themselves were more composed of the very races that they were judging. many may not have seen anything wrong with their behavior and lobbied in favor of these scrutinized cultures. in RW terms it is similar to generational differences....and the "generation gap". however, the older immortals would also have to loosen up to maintain their followings within these cultures. so any generation gaps would eventually narrow. Ixion is pretty demonstrative of this as he is obviously old and is considered one of the more chaotic immortals. what if back in ancient days he was more stern and less forgiving. he could easily be expalined as being the "firebringing immortal" Zugzal (sp?) in the DA series. speaking of the DA series....the immortals could hae also overreacted a bit due to the prior Blackmoor messup. blackmoor's rise and sudden demise had caught them off-guard. with nithia's corruption they may have reacted too soon and "nipped matters in the bud" before it got any worse. add to this Thanatos's possible and often theorized role in the GRoF and his involvement in Nithia's corruption may have been an added modifier in the culture being punished so severely. as for the need for the BoO, all i can do is restate that i never really had to deal with it in my campaigns. i really do not see a need for it. of course, reasons could be created. the guardian force of some ancient evil works. likewise Thanatos's grand scheme could come into play. say that T-Bone formulated the nithian's guiding of the alphers to mystara. his plan involved alpher magical foundations and mindset to combine with nithian magic and lore to add another step to his plan. WotI could even be part of T-Bone's plan. likewise the events following Wrath could be portrayed as the other immortals cleaning up. with some detail alterations one could surmise that the post wrath mystara was eradicated of the alpher component of the plan. afterall....the bulk of the alphatian empire was sunk then moved to HW. the alpher presence in glantri was essentially wiped out. of course these removals could also be part of T-Bone's plan as well. even if the alphers were part of the original plan, the loss of the nithianscould have required the alphers removal to start other contengency plans into motion. but anyway....i am diverging from the thread too much. either way the original question is a good one and opens the door for many more questions. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 03:13:41 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Mapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anyone on this list know where i can download a decent map drawing program that won't take me a degree in computer science/graphic design to operate? Help. Thanks. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:44:33 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable KoRneR wrote: > Here's some rambling mumbo-jumbo from someone who has minimum = knowledge of > anything related to Mystara, but a knack for good ideas. Here's a = version > of everything before mentioned that I offer you, and will try to use = IMC > so I would like you to read this and tell me what could be done = better, > what is needless and what is absolutly ingenious :)) I'd certainly like to read it and offer my comments, hopefully in a = non-inflammatory manner. ;) First off, here's the most detailed version = of what happened to Nithia (that I could find) according to canon (HW DM = Sourcebook p. 75-76): "The Immortal Thanatos, who hates any sort of growth, health, and = prosperity, or brightness, decided around BC700 to wreck the Nithian = culture. He started at the top, corrupting the sons of the current = pharaoh, persuading them to become his clerics, not followers of those = more wishy-washy Immortals. [...] Within 200 years, Thanatos had made = good his plan. [...] now, all major Nithian rulers and political figures = were his followers. They [...] deliberately insulted the other Immortals = with their rites, engaged in wars of extermination with surrounding = cultures, and profaned everything that they had once stood for. = Inevitably, the other Immortals decided that enough was enough. They = drove the rulers crazy [...] drooling, foaming, bouncing-off-the-walls = crazy. They diverted the headwaters of the river Nithia [...] scattering = the Nithians to the four winds [...] Then, in order to keep other = cultures from following the Nithians' examples, they concocted a spell = [...]: The Spell of Oblivion. This powerful enchantment affected every = living, mortal being on the face of the world, robbing from them every = memory of the Nithians; it sought out and destroyed almost every = artifact or piece of monumental architecture the Nithians had ever = built, destroying them utterly." > So, Blackmoor is the source? Reading the posts in here I gather that > Blackmoorians were technological nation. And I suppose USS Beagle was = some > kind of a ship. Now, first of my holes in knowledge, would somenoe = relate > some facts of Beagle to me and clarify it's use, purpose and design? > thanx. I think that has been answered adequately by other people. > Let's go for the mass destruction of towns and cities. So they make a > weapon that can cause mass destruction, and as my idea, Beagle can be = used > for space/planes travel or they have made a device that can transport > people to any plane at will (all-purpose portal). But let's say that = they > never got to fully use it all, since something (Beagle?) eventually > exploded and made a hole where Blakmoore was. The Beagle didn't have plane-travelling powers, it was a technologically = powered spaceship, using our physical laws, and could not penetrate = planar boundaries. The aliens who built it relied only on technology, = not magic. It was the Blackmoorians that started mixing this technology = with magic. > Now, Nithians discover the Blackmoore ruins and rumors. Suppose at = this > time they are good-aligned nation as HW Nithia. They discover the mass > destruction weapon, all-purpose portal but not Beagle (since it is now = a > sun in the HW, right?). The HW sun is _not_ the Beagle nor it's engine! The HW sun is a Gate to = the Sphere of Energy (strange, since that's not a physical place, but I = digress), in no way related to the Beagle. All that was left from the = implosion of the Beagle is the engine core, and that is the Nucleus of = the Spheres, buried beneath Glantri. That's not to say that the = Blackmoorians couldn't have developed a mass destruction weapon from the = technology they recovered prior to the Beagle's destruction, but why = would they? What threats were there (or could there be) to Blackmoor so = dire that they needed a mass destruction weapon? (I'm asking all of you = here, not just KoRneR, who admits to not possessing vast knowledge of = Mystara) > Not all of the Blackmoorian technology is > recovered, so they still resemble RW Egyptians, but more powerful and > technological now (remember the Stargate movie) with a portal to other > worlds and planes. They could reasonably create such a portal themselves with help from = Thanatos, that explanation would be more consistent with canon. A portal = would also be preferable to a mass-destruction weapon, since a = mass-destruction weapon is almost unprecedented on Mystara (Rad makes = one, but he's an Immortal fiddling with foreign technology that was also = altered by an Old One!). > What Aaron mentioned above could be the reason why Immortals started = to > plot Nithia's demise. At this point they would turn evil. They would = have > used portals to transport people to Nithia from other worlds (for who > knows what reason), they would have accepted Gods from other planes as > more powerful (maybe Immortals are petitioners?), discovered the = secret of > the NoS (acheiving Immortality) etc. etc. I can see how they could use a portal to bring in troops for use in = their wars of extermination. After all there are only so mant Nithians, = and exterminating whole cultures takes a lot of manpower, so gating in a = few thousand beings that they have a way to dominate would help them = immensely, and pose a real threat to neighbouring cultures. They didn't = meddle with the NoS, but perhaps they found power as followers of the = Outer Beings, though it seems Thanatos is completely responsible for = their downfall, and even he wouldn't be _that_ suicidal, would he? > All evil because their plot was this: use the NoS to achieve = Immortallity > by gaining power by destruction of Mystara and transporting themselves > through portal somewhere where they will continue their quest to = become > Gods. Of course not ALL Nithians, but those most powerful (pharaoh > searching for more power..) I could certainly see how Thanatos may have convinced the rulers of = Nithia that destroying Mystara would be a step along their way to = becoming Immortals themselves, and that they could just travel on = afterwards, using their portal. Perhaps he even told them the truth, and = it is a valid step along the Path to Entropy, when questing for = Immortality. > Now, this is something that simply could not be, right? So, BoO is = made, > Oblivion is cast on Mystara, Nithians are destroyed and transported to = HW. > Maybe oblivion on them too, reverting them to "just" RW Egyptians :) Indeed. BoO, SoO, NoS, HW, RW, KoRneR... Eek! Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:48:54 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Stalker wrote: >> Okay, here is the real truth. The Beagle was a starship (or = spaceship, voidship, whatever)! Long before the rise of Blackmoor, the = Beagle was traveling through space, but it crashed on Mystara near the = Blackmoor area (a very primitive society at the time). The Blackmoorians = found this ship and were able to build a civilization copying its = technology, but eventually something went wrong and Blackmoor was = utterly destroyed chaging the axis of Mystara so that Blackmoor's = location became the new north pole. The engines of the Beagle survived = buried in the ice, however.<< Correction: The Beagle was destroyed a millenium before the Blackmoor = destruction event. Apparently it took them a full thousand years to = modify the technology they found in it enough to cause a major = cataclysm. >> Eventually some Immortal or other godly busybody moved this artifact = to belong where Glantri is today (I hate it when they do that! ;) )<< Correction: That was an Old One, not an Immortal. >> Actually the Pharaoh of Nithia did become an Immortal, Noumena, = although he's not a very nasty person, he's actually rather neutral, = alignment-wise. Then again, he did abdicate to explore the world before = the fall of Nithia, so your idea could apply to the rest of Nithia.<< He abdicated before the Nithians started their descent to Oblivion. Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:52:55 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: Mapping In-Reply-To: <61.b85e2b3.27c0de35@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yeah -- try AutoREALM. It's a CC-like (CC = Campaign Cartographer) program that's much easier to learn (I downloaded it one afternoon and had a map with multiple layers in place before I went to bed). It's quite powerful too -- one review I read claimed that it had all of the functions from CC that really mattered, and the few it was missing were generally the really esoteric ones that very few people actually care about. Best of all -- it used to be shareware, but now it's 100% freeware! The URL to get it from is: (however, I just tried it and am getting a "can't access the server" message. Hopefully this problem is a temporary one. I think I've still got the zip file on my hard drive if you can't get a copy though) Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- On 18 Feb 2001, at 3:13, Master's Pawn wrote: > Does anyone on this list know where i can download a decent map drawing > program that won't take me a degree in computer science/graphic design to > operate? > > Help. > > Thanks. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:59:33 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Martin Mathes Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion Alex Benson said: > In a message dated 2/16/01 4:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > hersh67@BELLATLANTIC.NET writes: > > << Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous > about Nithia? So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on > most things would set aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping > out the memory of a certain group of 'mere mortals'? >> > yes, yes, yes, yes and another yes. whats the use of a great source of adventure possibilities when it is forgotten before a campaign can evolve more then one step. i handle the Nithian civilisation like its RW counterpart the egyptians. untill the middle of the 19th century the egyptians were known to a lot of historicans but the only known facts were the short passages in the bible and some texts written by sokrates. so their real history was uncovered until champouillon (dont know the right spelling at the moment ;)) translated the text on the stone from rosette. how they managed to built the huge pyramids is even a riddle today. several theories exist (including help from spacers;)) especially the echnaton/nofretete era have stayed mysterious untill today. he was the pharaoh who tried to get rid of the pantheon and establish a monotheistic belief. very soon after his dead all of his buildings were destroied and his and nofretetes names were erased from every text! so my pcs stummble across some nithian evidence from time to time but don't get enough facts to reconstruct any valid picture. martin ps: the KoA box adventures include the hidden nithian pyramid below threshold!! and any curious pc can learn a lot about nithia when he manages to communicate with the undead in the pyramid. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 12:43:54 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alan Armstrong Subject: Spell contest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Due to a c**k up by me I lost all the spells entered in the competition that was on the newsgroup boards. Does anyone have the spells saved and is it possible to email them to me, or direct me to another location where they exist. Many thanks. Alan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 13:53:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Mapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit if the zip is not bigger than 2 or 4 meg , i'll be happy to get a copy please. i cannot access the url you gave either Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenni A.M. Merrifield To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 10:52 AM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mapping > Yeah -- try AutoREALM. It's a CC-like (CC = Campaign Cartographer) > program that's much easier to learn (I downloaded it one afternoon and had > a map with multiple layers in place before I went to bed). It's quite > powerful too -- one review I read claimed that it had all of the functions > from CC that really mattered, and the few it was missing were generally the > really esoteric ones that very few people actually care about. > > Best of all -- it used to be shareware, but now it's 100% freeware! > > The URL to get it from is: (however, I > just tried it and am getting a "can't access the server" message. > Hopefully this problem is a temporary one. I think I've still got the zip > file on my hard drive if you can't get a copy though) > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > On 18 Feb 2001, at 3:13, Master's Pawn wrote: > > > Does anyone on this list know where i can download a decent map drawing > > program that won't take me a degree in computer science/graphic design to > > operate? > > > > Help. > > > > Thanks. > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project > M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:56:41 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: jason o'brien Subject: Re: Mapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > if the zip is not bigger than 2 or 4 meg , i'll be happy to get a copy > please. > i cannot access the url you gave either > same here.maybe if it doesn't take too long to learn and use i might be able to finally start producing some good maps myself. mortus. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:19:28 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Organization: Angelfire (http://email.angelfire.mailcity.lycos.com:80) Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:48:54 Jacob Skytte wrote: >The Stalker wrote: > >>> Okay, here is the real truth. The Beagle was a starship (or spaceship, voidship, whatever)! Long before the rise of Blackmoor, the Beagle was traveling through space, but it crashed on Mystara near the Blackmoor area (a very primitive society at the time). The Blackmoorians found this ship and were able to build a civilization copying its technology, but eventually something went wrong and Blackmoor was utterly destroyed chaging the axis of Mystara so that Blackmoor's location became the new north pole. The engines of the Beagle survived buried in the ice, however.<< > >Correction: The Beagle was destroyed a millenium before the Blackmoor destruction event. Apparently it took them a full thousand years to modify the technology they found in it enough to cause a major cataclysm. > I didn't say it was at the same time, but you're correct in that I had forgotten that quite that much time had passed. >>> Eventually some Immortal or other godly busybody moved this artifact to belong where Glantri is today (I hate it when they do that! ;) )<< > >Correction: That was an Old One, not an Immortal. > So it was. Mea culpa. >>> Actually the Pharaoh of Nithia did become an Immortal, Noumena, although he's not a very nasty person, he's actually rather neutral, alignment-wise. Then again, he did abdicate to explore the world before the fall of Nithia, so your idea could apply to the rest of Nithia.<< > >He abdicated before the Nithians started their descent to Oblivion. > Isn't that what I said? - The Stalker "I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences!" Who needs Cupid? Matchmaker.com is the place to meet somebody. FREE Two-week Trial Membership at http://www.matchmaker.com/home?rs=200015 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:08:52 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Jenni A.M. Merrifield" Organization: strawberryJAMM Designs Subject: Re: Mapping In-Reply-To: <3A8F2AF7.26990.1CB7CE3A@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've had a few people ask for the AutoREALM zip file since the site doesn't seem to be working. Since it's freeware, and the zip file is the original, I've uploaded it to my own anonymous ftp server. You can grab a copy of the file here: On 18 Feb 2001, at 1:52, Jenni A.M. Merrifield wrote: > Yeah -- try AutoREALM. It's a CC-like (CC = Campaign Cartographer) > program that's much easier to learn (I downloaded it one afternoon and had > a map with multiple layers in place before I went to bed). It's quite > powerful too -- one review I read claimed that it had all of the functions > from CC that really mattered, and the few it was missing were generally the > really esoteric ones that very few people actually care about. > > Best of all -- it used to be shareware, but now it's 100% freeware! > > The URL to get it from is: (however, I > just tried it and am getting a "can't access the server" message. > Hopefully this problem is a temporary one. I think I've still got the zip > file on my hard drive if you can't get a copy though) > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > On 18 Feb 2001, at 3:13, Master's Pawn wrote: > > > Does anyone on this list know where i can download a decent map drawing > > program that won't take me a degree in computer science/graphic design to > > operate? > > > > Help. > > > > Thanks. > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project > M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > -- Jenni A. M. Merrifield -=> strawberryJAMM <=- Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:31:34 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: Mapping MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks very much Jenni Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jenni A.M. Merrifield To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Mapping > I've had a few people ask for the AutoREALM zip file since the site > doesn't seem to be working. Since it's freeware, and the zip file is the > original, I've uploaded it to my own anonymous ftp server. You can grab a > copy of the file here: > > > > On 18 Feb 2001, at 1:52, Jenni A.M. Merrifield wrote: > > > Yeah -- try AutoREALM. It's a CC-like (CC = Campaign Cartographer) > > program that's much easier to learn (I downloaded it one afternoon and had > > a map with multiple layers in place before I went to bed). It's quite > > powerful too -- one review I read claimed that it had all of the functions > > from CC that really mattered, and the few it was missing were generally the > > really esoteric ones that very few people actually care about. > > > > Best of all -- it used to be shareware, but now it's 100% freeware! > > > > The URL to get it from is: (however, I > > just tried it and am getting a "can't access the server" message. > > Hopefully this problem is a temporary one. I think I've still got the zip > > file on my hard drive if you can't get a copy though) > > > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > > > On 18 Feb 2001, at 3:13, Master's Pawn wrote: > > > > > Does anyone on this list know where i can download a decent map drawing > > > program that won't take me a degree in computer science/graphic design to > > > operate? > > > > > > Help. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > ******************************************************************** > > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > > Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project > > M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > > -- > Jenni A. M. Merrifield > -=> strawberryJAMM <=- > Benevolent Despot of the M3E Project > M3E Project: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mystara3E > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:23:57 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Novy Subject: Re: Norwald and Heldannic Empire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed They havent any at all........ >out of interest how much contact have the PC's had with Norworld so far? >Cause if it was minimal you could simply change when erical is ceded >norworld (and when alphatia colinizes it). Because of this change maybe the >HK have been colinizing the land and this ticks them off. There will be >some >other details but it does leave the module very much in tact IMO. And vey >easy to adapt the HK in place of the Thyatians. > >What do you think? > >Chris. > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:27:11 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Novy Subject: Re: Norwald and Heldannic Empire Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I like this idea....it seems very feasible....Thanks > >Another feasible option is that Ericall is in big trouble after the Sinking >of Alphatia, so w/o the mother land's protection, he sends out a call for >new comers to help rule his lands. Then just start CM1 post-Wrath and use >the HKs instead of the Thyatians. IIRC, it would take about 2 game years >before the War of the Crown breaks out. The PCs could still establish >dominions, help the dwarves and barbarians, Ericall could still marry >(maybe >the Alphatian Christina Marie was visiting Alpha during the Sinking), and >some of the NPCs could still betray Ericall and the PCs and side w. the >HKs. > >Dan > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:35:48 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Novy Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed This is definitely worth getting if you play 2nd edition. Mike >From: Ramses Ramirez >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] Mystara Monstrous Compendium >Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:02:03 -0800 > >Hello, > > I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium and >wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both the Rules >Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new monsters in the >newer compendium that the older books do not have? > >Lancer > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Get Your Free Mail Address at http://www.StarWarsEmail.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:40:41 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: M Novy Subject: Re: 3e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I play 3e and love it. I think that they made it more streamlined and everything works the same. Whether you are making a skill role or attacking someone. Mike >From: Angelo Bertolli >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] 3e >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:49:51 -0000 > >A friend of mine was explaining the rules of AD&D3 to me. I really like >the >way they do some of the things with numbers. I like the way they made >everything positive, and the one experience chart for classes and level >gaining. I like the simplicity of the "saving throw" and skill testing >system (certainly better than ability checks, which I never used anyway), >but I still feel like it's a bit arbitrary and lacking something. Of >course, I don't have all the details yet. Next week I'm going to sit in >with them on one of their games. > >However, I think they could have done a better with the magic. Maybe they >just didn't want to change things too much, but I would like to have seen >some kind of mana point system instead. Maybe even a level-restricted >system, where characters can can cast X number of spells from a certain >level, but they're not set in stone. Maybe that's what the new classes are >for... I'm not sure. > >But one thing that my friend told me, which I definitely do NOT like the >idea of, is "battles require a map." Due to the range and combat system, >which I don't know every detail of, something really gets lost in doing >away >with the map to the extent that he was trying to explain how it unbalances >the game if you don't have one. Now I'm not sure if I'm convinced of this, >since I don't know of all the rules, but I think it's really terrible to >require a map. I don't have anything against using a map when it's >convenient, but I don't know how many games I played during class in high >school where we could just not have used a map. > >What do you guys think? > >Angelo Bertolli >http://members.fortunecity.com/abertoll/dnd/ >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Polacek Subject: NWN Mystara Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hey everybody, Just wanted to let you know about a new website: http://mystaraproject.tripod.com As you may or may not know, Bioware (the developers of Baldur's Gate) are creating a game that will take the pen & paper game into an online, 3d, multiplayer environment. The game is called Neverwinter Nights (NWN). Through the use of the NWN Toolset, a user can design his own settings and adventures. (For more info, check out http://www.neverwinternights.com) It seems that this gives all of us Mystara fans the chance to further develop the setting since TSR's unfortunate decision to cancel it. A website known as the Neverwinter Nexus (www.neverwinternexus.net) is organizing many projects for the NwN Game in order to optimize the resources available to players, DMs and designers. In other words, the Nexus is there to help players find DMs, DMs find players, both find help for projects and to smooth the path between realms for greater enjoyment. I am the current coordinator of the Mystara Domain at the Nexus, and am trying to recruit people to help bring the campaign life online via the Neverwinter Nights game. There are already websites up and running for many of the other popular campaign settings such as dragonlance (www.nwdl.com) and greyhawk (http://www.mysticquests.org/ nwngha). With enough resources, it may be possible to build an entire 3d, multi-player Mystara online 24/7. At the very least, we will be able to recreate many of the old adventure modules and settings from the gazeteers to be downloaded and played online. So, if this sounds interesting to you, check out the site for more info: http://mystaraproject.tripod.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:20:26 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: thibault sarlat Subject: Re: NWN Mystara Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to know if the neverwintergame is already out on the market. If so ; how much doas it coast? Thibault Sarlat. ICQ 16622177. homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr or at clenarius@hotmail.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Polacek To: Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 2:08 AM Subject: [MYSTARA] NWN Mystara Project > Hey everybody, > > Just wanted to let you know about a new website: > > http://mystaraproject.tripod.com > > As you may or may not know, Bioware (the developers of Baldur's Gate) are > creating a game that will take the pen & paper game into an online, 3d, > multiplayer environment. The game is called Neverwinter Nights (NWN). > Through the use of the NWN Toolset, a user can design his own settings and > adventures. (For more info, check out http://www.neverwinternights.com) It > seems that this gives all of us Mystara fans the chance to further develop > the setting since TSR's unfortunate decision to cancel it. > > A website known as the Neverwinter Nexus (www.neverwinternexus.net) is > organizing many projects for the NwN Game in order to optimize the resources > available to players, DMs and designers. In other words, the Nexus is there > to help players find DMs, DMs find players, both find help for projects and > to smooth the path between realms for greater enjoyment. > > I am the current coordinator of the Mystara Domain at the Nexus, and am > trying to recruit people to help bring the campaign life online via the > Neverwinter Nights game. There are already websites up and running for many > of the other popular campaign settings such as dragonlance (www.nwdl.com) > and greyhawk (http://www.mysticquests.org/ > nwngha). > > With enough resources, it may be possible to build an entire 3d, > multi-player Mystara online 24/7. At the very least, we will be able to > recreate many of the old adventure modules and settings from the gazeteers > to be downloaded and played online. > > So, if this sounds interesting to you, check out the site for more info: > > http://mystaraproject.tripod.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:48:04 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Federico Kaftal Subject: Ogg.: [MYSTARA] Charm Person Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 Well... here's my opinion: Since it's stated in the rules that Charme Person makes the victim believe that the caster is his best friend, let's imagine a situation where you (the victim) are together with your two best friends, say Alex and John. Now: suppose you're walking with Alex (your true friend), the two of you meet John (the enemy caster), and suddenly Alex and John (your TWO best friends, now!) start fighting each others to death, for some reason which you can't understand: what would you do? I'm sure you would try stopping them both - you'd believe they're mad - rather than awkwardly switching sides and killing your old friend Alex! I believe that the caster would need a more powerful spell (such as Confusion or Command) if he wishes you to fight Alex. Of course, "special" Charme spells (such as the ones cast by the Kopru) would succeed as well in having you fight Alex. I hope this will help, greetings. Federico ______________________________ Il Fri, 16 February 2001, Angelo Bertolli ha scritto: > > How powerful do you think charm person should be? Should it automatically > give the caster control over the victim? I know in video games, it just > made the character "switch sides" during a battle. But in actuality, the > victim doesn't really have to befriend the other side, only the caster. > Someone I talked to was of the opinion that it's too powerful for a 1st > level spell, and he says that charm person cast during battle should merely > make the character confused and unable to decide who to fight. > > Angelo > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. AltaVista Free email service ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:02:58 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Larry E. Lamb" Subject: Re: 3e MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You need a map to have a fight in 3erd edition? I dont like that much........TSR should have known that alot of people wont use that, most play a fight with a sketch od the area at most... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:51:11 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Eyal Fleminger Subject: Re: Mystara Monstrous Compendium Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed An online RTF version of the MMC can be downloaded from http://pams.coms.ch/zip/mystara_mca.zip >>From: Ramses Ramirez >>Reply-To: Mystara >>To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >>Subject: [MYSTARA] Mystara Monstrous Compendium >>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:02:03 -0800 >> >>Hello, >> >> I have heard many good things about the Mystara Monstrous Compendium >>and >>wondering if this book is worth getting if one already owns both the Rules >>Cyclopedia and the D&D Creature Catalog? Are there new monsters in the >>newer compendium that the older books do not have? >> >>Lancer >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------ >>Get Your Free Mail Address at http://www.StarWarsEmail.com >> >>******************************************************************** >>The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >>The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >>To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >>with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:39:54 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Polacek Subject: Re: NWN Mystara Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Neverwinter Nights game (NwN) is not yet on the market, and they don't yet have a beta out for testing. The game IS well on its way to being developed and they have screen shots (http://www.neverwinternights.com/gallery.html) and a demo movie (ftp://ftp.interplay.com/pub/movies/NeverWinterFinal.mpg) on their website. I'm not sure what the price is going to be, or if they've announced it. I imagine it will be about the same as Baldur's Gate 2, probably a little more. Any more questions you have about the game itself can most likely be answered at their website. >From: thibault sarlat >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] NWN Mystara Project >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:20:26 +0100 > >I would like to know if the neverwintergame is already out on the market. >If >so ; how much doas it coast? > > >Thibault Sarlat. >ICQ 16622177. >homepage http://www.mystara.com.bi >Join me at: thibsylv@club-internet.fr >or at >clenarius@hotmail.com >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Polacek >To: >Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 2:08 AM >Subject: [MYSTARA] NWN Mystara Project > > > > Hey everybody, > > > > Just wanted to let you know about a new website: > > > > http://mystaraproject.tripod.com > > > > As you may or may not know, Bioware (the developers of Baldur's Gate) >are > > creating a game that will take the pen & paper game into an online, 3d, > > multiplayer environment. The game is called Neverwinter Nights (NWN). > > Through the use of the NWN Toolset, a user can design his own settings >and > > adventures. (For more info, check out http://www.neverwinternights.com) >It > > seems that this gives all of us Mystara fans the chance to further >develop > > the setting since TSR's unfortunate decision to cancel it. > > > > A website known as the Neverwinter Nexus (www.neverwinternexus.net) is > > organizing many projects for the NwN Game in order to optimize the >resources > > available to players, DMs and designers. In other words, the Nexus is >there > > to help players find DMs, DMs find players, both find help for projects >and > > to smooth the path between realms for greater enjoyment. > > > > I am the current coordinator of the Mystara Domain at the Nexus, and am > > trying to recruit people to help bring the campaign life online via the > > Neverwinter Nights game. There are already websites up and running for >many > > of the other popular campaign settings such as dragonlance >(www.nwdl.com) > > and greyhawk (http://www.mysticquests.org/ > > nwngha). > > > > With enough resources, it may be possible to build an entire 3d, > > multi-player Mystara online 24/7. At the very least, we will be able to > > recreate many of the old adventure modules and settings from the >gazeteers > > to be downloaded and played online. > > > > So, if this sounds interesting to you, check out the site for more info: > > > > http://mystaraproject.tripod.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > ******************************************************************** > > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:01:50 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: [ADMIN] Warm welcomes and system problems Hello everyone, First off, I'd like to welcome both Alex and Beau back to the fold - here's to hoping to see more interesting posts from both of you. :-) Secondly, a number of you have emailed me concerning various problems seeing the most recent posts on the list, while being able to see them on the Net version at wizards.com. I have sent a note to wizards, and they have told me that they have had problems with Oracle lately, but those seem to have been resolved. I have sent a second note to them mentioning that some list members are still having problems viewing the posts. Stay tuned. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:13:59 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: The Big City (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I did some fleshing out for the Big City of Wererats below Thyatis City Tell me what you think. I put the html version (better formating) at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/bigcity.html my apologies for any english errors in the text **** THE BIG CITY (AC 1010) Location: Under Thyatis City, Thyatis, Known World Population: 11150 (10000 wererats, 1000 greater wererats, 150 humans) plus thousands of giant rats. Languages: Thyatian Coinage: Thyatian coins are used but barter is predominant. Government Type: Self styled king ruling by force in coalision with the clerics of Mrikitat. Industries: None, they survive by stealing and salvaging. Descripition: The Big City is vast network of miles of ancient sewer systems and caves, both natural and artificial, below Thyatis City. The wererats settled themselves in the most deep regions of the sewers comming up regulary to get food and valuables, wich they trade amongst themselves. A few of them have stablished humam identities on the surface (almost always thieves). The whole system is ruled by the "Big One" in a manner similar to the working of a thieves guild. This self styled leader rules by force with the support of his gang. The current leader has a solid position (as solid as a thieves-guildmaster can be, of course) due to his support to the clerics of Mrikitat, which have a great influence in the sewers. There are almost no laws, the Big One demands part of everything stolen but can't really inforce that everywhere. The only sacred rule, understood and respected by all, is that no uninfected humam shall ever leave the Big City. Should this rule be broken the entire city would be at risk and all wererats know that. Notable Sites: The All-Plenty Tunnels - This area is as luxurious as an sewer can get. It is located right below the Emperor's Hill and receives the refusal from the lavish parties thrown at the palace and at the states at hightop and silverlight districts. This area is controled by the family and closest fellows of the Big One. Right in the middle of this area is located the "All-Plenty Room" that is the house of the big one. The place is a huge confluence of sewers, that has been decorated with dirty pieces of silk, stolen furniture and tapestries in a wicked parody of a throne room. Also in this area is the quarters of the militia of the sewers (in fact a band of bulies that inforce the power of the Big One), a small protected cave were are kept almost all the weapons that can be colected from the surface. Some 500 wererats, known as Marauders of the Deep (the militia), live in the tunnels around the cave. Big Boss Rat Temple - Big Boss Rat is another name for Mrikitat. This big natural cave lies in one of the deepest regions of the big city. The entrance to it has a big crude tapestry showing an orange wedge of cheese. Right in the middle of the cave is a 9' tall statue of Mrikitat siting on a throne covered of rats. The priests live in small holes all around the cave and protect this cave at all times. Right in front of the statue there is a small pool of foul water where rituals of batism are taken. The batism is a ritual where a non-infected humam or giant rat (most of the times the sons of humam/greater whererats or giant rat/ whererat ) is ritually infected by the priest. Other rituals are made using the laps of the statue of Mrikitat as an altar (like the weekly offering of specially made cheese). The cave is very active in the first night of full moon, when the priests chant and receive the first transforming cubs that will be future priests. Bareskins' Den - Humans hard enough to survive in the sewers without being infested are eventually herded to this place. This small set of tunnels hold a small group of humans surviving under the rule of the wererats. They are utterly forbidden to leave their deep tunnels and survive only of what they can get there. As most of these man are runaway slaves they don't show much desire to go out anyway. Luker's Pits - One of the most dreaded places of the big city these flooded caves lie in the deeps closest to the mesonian river. Legends of a terrible monster living there haunt the minds of many wererats. The waters there are somewhat abundant in fish so some brave (or very hungry) wererats keep going there. There are not few whererats who know of some friend that disapeared there. Galius' House of Smell - The Galius family (all composed of lesser wererats) stablished a small business in the surface using their humam identities and a small cheese factory in the Big City. The factory lies exactly below their antique shop, in the Merchant's Row, and has a exclusive tunnel to the surface. The cheese factory is widely known at the Big City and the most fortunate wererats come to it to exchange valuables for their loved cheese. The Galius then sell these itens in the surface and use the money to buy milk. The family is quite powerfull because the Big One loves cheese and they produce the special cheese used only for the offerings to Mrikitat. History: The city was stablished around 451 AC by Mrikitat, The Big Boss Rat, the first of the wererats, and ruled by him till 491 AC when he attained immortality. Since then the city has seen big periods of anarchy controled somewhat by the clerics of Mrikitat, with the ocasinal rise of one strong or smart leader. Recently ( AC 996) a greater wererat named Arius Ninus, who demands to be called the Big One, rose to power throwing his antecessor in the Lurker's Pit. Important Figures: The Big One- Arius Ninus a small orphan boy in the streets of Thyatis went into the sewers one night running away from some angry shop owners. As he entered some really deep regions he was attacked by some hungry wererats. His death would be certain if it was not for a big female wererat who had just lost her cub to some disease. Frightening his attackers she addopted him. As he had contracted licantropy he became a greater wererat and grown to be a very sucessful thief. In AC 996 he convinced a lot of strong wererats of his wits and threw down the previous ruler, adopting the tittle of Big One. He did that by smartly siding with the priests of Mrikitat in various ocasions. He is a very cunning and treacherous being, but very cooperative if he thinks he can gain something with it. He rules the big city with hands of steel, promptly eliminating anyone he finds treatening to his power. His support to the cult of Mrikitat is based on profit, not faith, as he knows they hold to much influence amongst the wererats. Born: AC 970. Hair: Brown with gray patches. Eyes: Brown. Height: 1,68 meters. Since he mastered the beast-man form he abandoned his humam identity and lives only in this form. He uses a batered leather vest overhanging with every type of pingents, medals and other metal decorations. He uses a lot of rings, earrings and collars. Combat Notes: T21 / Greater Wererat 10; AC 1; hp 70 (beast-man); Mv 120'(40'); AT# 1 Sword; Save T21; AL C. S9 I15 W10 D18 Co12(13) Ch13(12).Weapon Mastery: Grand Master of the Sword. Magical Itens: Normal Sword +2, Ring of Protection +3 and he always carry a bunch of stolen scrolls equivalent to the spell book of a 16th level magic-user. High priest of Mrikitat- Born from giant rats infected with licantropy Trikat was hinself infected young in baptism and given to adoption to the priests on his first transformation. He aways lived amongst the priests becaming high priest when the last passed away. He is an uncommonly wise wererat an very prompt to help his followers. Recently a vision has led him to order a new cave to be opened inside the temple, in there he is supervising the construction of a strange archway, but he himself is not fully aware of its objective. Born: AC 951. Hair: Oldened grey with white patches. Eyes: light brown. Height: 6'. Almost aways found on his Man-Rat form assuming only his humam identity when his clerical powers are needed. He wears plain clothes and one single earring. Combat Notes: C28 / Lesser Wererat 9; AC 8/6; hp 64/56; Mv 120'(40'); AT# 1 Bite; Save C28; AL N. S9 I10 W17 D14 Co13(14) Ch11(10). Weapon Mastery: Grand Master of the Staff. Magical Itens: Rod of Health (known as the Stick of the Boss is passed from each high priest to his sucessor) Flora and Fauna: Obviously lots of rats and giant rats. One can also find some various forms of oozes, gelies and piddings, and the occasional giant crab and other amphibious lifeforms (in deep areas). Immortals: Mrikitat (Big Boss Rat). As in PC4 pg 7, with the following increment: Special Clerical Powers: Clerics of Mrikitat can use the thief's Hide in Shadows and Hear Noise abilities as if they were thiefs of the same experience level. See also: Dawn of the Emperors, PC4 - Night Howlers, PWA1011, MA1016. **** Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:48:44 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Polacek Subject: Re: The Big City (long) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Excellent Ricardo! Hopefully soon will be the day when you are able to bring this Undercity to life with the NWN game. It's a great example of the kind of project I'd be looking for to list on my site. In fact, I read on the Neverwinter Nights official site developer message board that they ran a demo of the game where a user was able to script a group of wererats to do the macarena! Guess when those wererats aren't stealing and scavenging, they like to work on their dance moves!!! - John Webmaster, NWN Mystara Project http://mystaraproject.tripod.com Mystara Domain Coordinator, Neverwinter Nexus http://www.neverwinternexus.net >From: Ricardo Matheus >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] The Big City (long) >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:13:59 -0800 > >I did some fleshing out for the Big City of Wererats below Thyatis City >Tell me what you think. >I put the html version (better formating) at: >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Keep/7983/bigcity.html >my apologies for any english errors in the text > > > **** > >THE BIG CITY (AC 1010) > >Location: Under Thyatis City, Thyatis, Known World > >Population: 11150 (10000 wererats, 1000 greater wererats, 150 humans) plus >thousands of giant rats. > >Languages: Thyatian > >Coinage: Thyatian coins are used but barter is predominant. > >Government Type: Self styled king ruling by force in coalision with the >clerics of Mrikitat. > >Industries: None, they survive by stealing and salvaging. > >Descripition: The Big City is vast network of miles of ancient sewer >systems >and caves, both natural and artificial, below Thyatis City. The wererats >settled themselves in the most deep regions of the sewers comming up >regulary to get food and valuables, wich they trade amongst themselves. A >few of them have stablished humam identities on the surface (almost always >thieves). > The whole system is ruled by the "Big One" in a manner similar to the >working of a thieves guild. This self styled leader rules by force with the >support of his gang. The current leader has a solid position (as solid as a >thieves-guildmaster can be, of course) due to his support to the clerics of >Mrikitat, which have a great influence in the sewers. > There are almost no laws, the Big One demands part of everything stolen >but can't really inforce that everywhere. The only sacred rule, understood >and respected by all, is that no uninfected humam shall ever leave the Big >City. Should this rule be broken the entire city would be at risk and all >wererats know that. > >Notable Sites: > The All-Plenty Tunnels - This area is as luxurious as an sewer can get. >It is located right below the Emperor's Hill and receives the refusal from >the lavish parties thrown at the palace and at the states at hightop and >silverlight districts. This area is controled by the family and closest >fellows of the Big One. Right in the middle of this area is located the >"All-Plenty Room" that is the house of the big one. The place is a huge >confluence of sewers, that has been decorated with dirty pieces of silk, >stolen furniture and tapestries in a wicked parody of a throne room. Also >in >this area is the quarters of the militia of the sewers (in fact a band of >bulies that inforce the power of the Big One), a small protected cave were >are kept almost all the weapons that can be colected from the surface. Some >500 wererats, known as Marauders of the Deep (the militia), live in the >tunnels around the cave. > Big Boss Rat Temple - Big Boss Rat is another name for Mrikitat. This >big natural cave lies in one of the deepest regions of the big city. The >entrance to it has a big crude tapestry showing an orange wedge of cheese. >Right in the middle of the cave is a 9' tall statue of Mrikitat siting on a >throne covered of rats. The priests live in small holes all around the cave >and protect this cave at all times. Right in front of the statue there is a >small pool of foul water where rituals of batism are taken. The batism is a >ritual where a non-infected humam or giant rat (most of the times the sons >of humam/greater whererats or giant rat/ whererat ) is ritually infected by >the priest. Other rituals are made using the laps of the statue of Mrikitat >as an altar (like the weekly offering of specially made cheese). The cave >is >very active in the first night of full moon, when the priests chant and >receive the first transforming cubs that will be future priests. > Bareskins' Den - Humans hard enough to survive in the sewers without >being infested are eventually herded to this place. This small set of >tunnels hold a small group of humans surviving under the rule of the >wererats. They are utterly forbidden to leave their deep tunnels and >survive >only of what they can get there. As most of these man are runaway slaves >they don't show much desire to go out anyway. > Luker's Pits - One of the most dreaded places of the big city these >flooded caves lie in the deeps closest to the mesonian river. Legends of a >terrible monster living there haunt the minds of many wererats. The waters >there are somewhat abundant in fish so some brave (or very hungry) wererats >keep going there. There are not few whererats who know of some friend that >disapeared there. > Galius' House of Smell - The Galius family (all composed of lesser >wererats) stablished a small business in the surface using their humam >identities and a small cheese factory in the Big City. The factory lies >exactly below their antique shop, in the Merchant's Row, and has a >exclusive >tunnel to the surface. The cheese factory is widely known at the Big City >and the most fortunate wererats come to it to exchange valuables for their >loved cheese. The Galius then sell these itens in the surface and use the >money to buy milk. The family is quite powerfull because the Big One loves >cheese and they produce the special cheese used only for the offerings to >Mrikitat. > >History: The city was stablished around 451 AC by Mrikitat, The Big Boss >Rat, the first of the wererats, and ruled by him till 491 AC when he >attained immortality. Since then the city has seen big periods of anarchy >controled somewhat by the clerics of Mrikitat, with the ocasinal rise of >one >strong or smart leader. Recently ( AC 996) a greater wererat named Arius >Ninus, who demands to be called the Big One, rose to power throwing his >antecessor in the Lurker's Pit. > >Important Figures: > The Big One- Arius Ninus a small orphan boy in the streets of Thyatis >went into the sewers one night running away from some angry shop owners. As >he entered some really deep regions he was attacked by some hungry >wererats. >His death would be certain if it was not for a big female wererat who had >just lost her cub to some disease. Frightening his attackers she addopted >him. As he had contracted licantropy he became a greater wererat and grown >to be a very sucessful thief. In AC 996 he convinced a lot of strong >wererats of his wits and threw down the previous ruler, adopting the tittle >of Big One. He did that by smartly siding with the priests of Mrikitat in >various ocasions. He is a very cunning and treacherous being, but very >cooperative if he thinks he can gain something with it. He rules the big >city with hands of steel, promptly eliminating anyone he finds treatening >to >his power. His support to the cult of Mrikitat is based on profit, not >faith, as he knows they hold to much influence amongst the wererats. Born: >AC 970. Hair: Brown with gray patches. Eyes: Brown. Height: 1,68 meters. >Since he mastered the beast-man form he abandoned his humam identity and >lives only in this form. He uses a batered leather vest overhanging with >every type of pingents, medals and other metal decorations. He uses a lot >of >rings, earrings and collars. Combat Notes: T21 / Greater Wererat 10; AC 1; >hp 70 (beast-man); Mv 120'(40'); AT# 1 Sword; Save T21; AL C. S9 I15 W10 >D18 >Co12(13) Ch13(12).Weapon Mastery: Grand Master of the Sword. Magical Itens: >Normal Sword +2, Ring of Protection +3 and he always carry a bunch of >stolen >scrolls equivalent to the spell book of a 16th level magic-user. > High priest of Mrikitat- Born from giant rats infected with licantropy >Trikat was hinself infected young in baptism and given to adoption to the >priests on his first transformation. He aways lived amongst the priests >becaming high priest when the last passed away. He is an uncommonly wise >wererat an very prompt to help his followers. Recently a vision has led him >to order a new cave to be opened inside the temple, in there he is >supervising the construction of a strange archway, but he himself is not >fully aware of its objective. Born: AC 951. Hair: Oldened grey with white >patches. Eyes: light brown. Height: 6'. Almost aways found on his Man-Rat >form assuming only his humam identity when his clerical powers are needed. >He wears plain clothes and one single earring. Combat Notes: C28 / Lesser >Wererat 9; AC 8/6; hp 64/56; Mv 120'(40'); AT# 1 Bite; Save C28; AL N. S9 >I10 W17 D14 Co13(14) Ch11(10). Weapon Mastery: Grand Master of the Staff. >Magical Itens: Rod of Health (known as the Stick of the Boss is passed from >each high priest to his sucessor) > >Flora and Fauna: Obviously lots of rats and giant rats. One can also find >some various forms of oozes, gelies and piddings, and the occasional giant >crab and other amphibious lifeforms (in deep areas). > >Immortals: > Mrikitat (Big Boss Rat). > As in PC4 pg 7, with the following increment: > Special Clerical Powers: Clerics of Mrikitat can use the thief's >Hide in Shadows and Hear Noise abilities as if they were thiefs of the same >experience level. > >See also: Dawn of the Emperors, PC4 - Night Howlers, PWA1011, MA1016. > > > **** > >Darkblood >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:43:38 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: John Calvin Subject: Re: What was so bad about Nithians (was Bead ofOblivion) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> > If the ancient (outer world) Nithians caused such a scare >among the immortal community as to cause the immortals to wipe the memory of their >civilization from history, then why would any immortal want to preserve that in the HW? >They wouldn't. I do think however, that what is preserved in the HW is a sort of filtered >version of Nithia. The HW version is a version that maintains cultural traits, but that >perhaps lacks certain technology possessed by the outer world Nithians. > Technology? << I'm using technology here in a very general sense. It's a term I picked up in a college anthropology course, and I just can't seem to shake it. Cromagnan man possessed the technolog of fire creation. Technology doesn't have to mean comnputer systems and nuclear missiles. In this sense I suppose it could be interchangeable with the word knowledge. >> >So IMC I take a route similar to this one when dealing with the Nithians of old. I say >that the Nithians got their hands on some Blackmoorian artifacts and were able to >understand them enough that they could at least reproduce their effects to some degree. >Most of us think of the Blackmoorians as being fairly technologically advanced (on parr >with, or surpassing RW Earth). That doesn't mean the the ancient Nithian culture and >technology paralleled that of Blackmoor...only that they were able to reproduce the >"effects" of some of that technology. And the technology that they were able to >reproduce was fairly devastating. << So let me clarify here. I always saw Blackmoor as being very near (or surpassing) our own technology level, while I saw the Nithians as being very advanced in the areas of magic. The link I'm making between Blackmoor and Nithia is in the "end result" only...not in the means of achieving the end result. 1) Blackmoor causes the GRoF through some nuclear catastrophy. 2) Nithian mages develope "nuclear power magic". They start to wipe out entire towns [this is right from the Nithia Gaz IIRC]. I'm making the assumption that the immortals wouldn't see much of a difference whether the means was magic or machine in nature...the end effect is the same. Bad. John ===== Rule #53. If the beautiful princess that I capture says "I'll never marry you! Never, do you hear me, NEVER!!!", I will say "Oh well" and kill her. from "A Guide to Becoming an Evil Overlord" by Peter Anspach __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:17:38 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Brad Fonseca Subject: Looking for a few things... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all! I'm looking for a few Mystaran products. Here's the list: The Five Shires Gazetteer The Darokin Republic Gazetteer The Minrothad Guilds Gazetteer X10 -- Red Arrow, Black Shield X4 -- Master of the Desert Nomads If anyone on the list has access to these products or is willing to sell me a copy of any of these, let me know via private email. I, of course, will pay for the price of shipping etc. -- Brad:) "It is a pain in the ass waiting around for someone to try to kill you." ---Merlin, son of Corwin, as quoted in Trumps Of Doom ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:19:57 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Looking for a few things... In-Reply-To: <3A92B4C0.8BD025A4@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Answering publicly, as there are other people who might benefit from this: At 13:17 2/20/01 -0500, Brad Fonseca wrote: >I'm looking for a few Mystaran products. Here's the list: > >The Five Shires Gazetteer This, the greatest thing Ed Greenwood ever wrote (and pretty darn good, aside from damning it with faint praise) is up regularly on eBay, in shrink wrap, and you can get it for under $10. I did, and there's a lot more where that came from. The other stuff on your list shows up there, too, but less often, in worse condition, and for more. I guess most people don't like halflings as much as I do ... BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:52:24 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Looking for a few things... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I can give a hand, like Beau i will also post it public, those announcements can help everybody: Just today I got the update from titangames.com (no links to them, that's not advertising!), and they included in the D&D items a copy of X11, for around $45!! It's kinda expensive, but, in my experience when hunting for that module, you either go for a expensive reseller (and anything between 35 and 50 is the norm) or you have to be patient and wait for a good ebay auction price... i did the last. Anyway, the module is worth a good price, excellent background, athmosphere and gameplay, plus a long one, it will keep you busy a few sessions! just my 2cents Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:58:00 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Andrew Theisen Subject: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Don't know if you've all read the press release about Ravenloft on Eric Noah's 3E website (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e), but White Wolf has acquired the rights to publish new Ravenloft material under the D20 banner. Maybe sometime we (the list members) either collectively or in conjunction with one of the many new D20 publishers out there can do something similar for Mystara? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:05:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mgelman Subject: Web site moved - please correct links [No Mystara content] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi. Just wanted to let everyone know my web site moved to www.city-net.com/~mgelman - please correct your links, if you have any. I know Shawn has a link, but I'm not sure what other Mystara sites do - if you see one with the old URL, let the site admin know. I still have all my HWRs up on the site, though I haven't yet updated the links (heck, I still have Leroy listed as the admin for this list...). That's about it. More Mystara content next time - I'll try to do some NPCs soon. I've been a bit busy with some baseball-sim projects.. - Mischa 95% of 1,004 adults surveyed in a Business Week/Harris Poll rejected the view that corporations' only role is to make money - Business Week, 3/11/96 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:20:19 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That sounds like a thrilling possibility!!!!!!!!! well, White Wolf is a big company, so I guess they have payed lotsa royalties for the RL rights... could we make a tiny co-op of sorts?? Black Hog was a small company, but it's making a good work in taking care of Warhammer Roleplay after Games Workshop focuses on its revamped wargaming (IMO turning the best fantasy wargame into a game for kiddies and munchkins, but that's off-topic, sorry). I guess it does not sound completely day-dreaming. Wizards seems to be taking steps for adventure modules and stuff to appear without them having to commit an excess of resources (and cash!), as that was the biggest mistake of TSR: opening soso many lines at the same time that they both created self-competence but also made quality dwindle fastly since the late 80s onwards. Those are just opinions, I'm casting my globe of invulnerability and getting ready to be flamed. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:58:14 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010220165800.00814520@pop.wans.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, Andrew Theisen wrote: > Maybe sometime we (the list members) either collectively or in conjunction > with one of the many new D20 publishers out there can do something similar > for Mystara? Maybe! That would be a great idea :) Freelancing for them may even motivate me enough to actually finish the 3 or so projects i have on the burner. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:09:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <001001c09ba4$7a2bb340$8214ebc3@uchicago.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Andr=E9s Piquer Otero wrote: > well, White Wolf is a big company, so I guess they have payed lotsa > royalties for the RL rights... could we make a tiny co-op of sorts?? Blac= k That's the problem.. The rights to the world would be tres expensif. I'd drop a hundred down to help out, but I can't afford much more.=20 Another problem that Mystara faces that Ravenloft did not is the existence of the Kargatane. Ravenloft had a small cabal of 'official' writers and net-book makers.=20 Mystara has no such beast. Sure, the Almanacs are one thing, but the alamanac group is far from the "official" voice of Mystara. There really isn't an "official" voice. Over the 20 years that Mystara has been around in various forms, everyone on this list has acquired a completely different "feel" for what the world is. Because of this, the MML and the 3e list has been a hotbed of infighting - based solely of the fact that everyone and their brother has a distinct vision of what Mystara is.=20 For a more concrete example, read some works by Bruce Heard.=20 Then read Aaron Allston.=20 That's the same Mystara.. But the whole feel of the writing is different. Is Mystara supposed to be tongue in cheek fantasy? Is it Tolkeinesque High Fantasy? Is it political intrigue: the RPG? Is it some wild amalgam of all of that?=20 Hmm.. makes one think. Or maybe it's just me.=20 Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:02:25 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "David S. Leland" Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I'd be interested to know yours (or anyone's) assessment of what aspects or flavors of Mystara come from which writer's/designers. Care to share your impressions? At 06:09 PM 2/20/01, SteelAngel wrote: [...] everyone and their brother has a distinct vision of what Mystara is. For a more concrete example, read some works by Bruce Heard. Then read Aaron Allston. That's the same Mystara.. But the whole feel of the writing is different. Is Mystara supposed to be tongue in cheek fantasy? Is it Tolkeinesque High Fantasy? Is it political intrigue: the RPG? Is it some wild amalgam of all of that? ./ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ \. < David S Leland ~|~ dleland@cogsci.ucsd.edu > | PhD Candidate ~|~ 858-534-9754(lab)/-1128(fax) | < UCSD Cog Sci ~|~ cogsci.ucsd.edu/~dleland > .\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ /. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:14:11 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Andrew Theisen" > Don't know if you've all read the press release about Ravenloft on Eric > Noah's 3E website (http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e), but White Wolf has > acquired the rights to publish new Ravenloft material under the D20 banner. > > Maybe sometime we (the list members) either collectively or in conjunction > with one of the many new D20 publishers out there can do something similar > for Mystara? I shudder to bring this up given all of the references on this list to her "heresy", but the best candidate might be Ann Dupuis of Grey Ghost Games (if I have the company name right -- they are the folks who publish FUDGE material). Maybe we should bring this up with her at next opportunity. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:11:47 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "David S. Leland" > > At 06:09 PM 2/20/01, SteelAngel wrote: > > [...] > > everyone and their brother has a distinct vision of what Mystara is. > > For a more concrete example, read some works by Bruce Heard. > > Then read Aaron Allston. > > That's the same Mystara.. But the whole feel of the writing is > different. Is Mystara supposed to be tongue in cheek fantasy? Is it > Tolkeinesque High Fantasy? Is it political intrigue: the RPG? Is it > some wild amalgam of all of that? I don't know about the rest of you, but my inclination would be to answer each and every one of those questions with a "Yes!" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:15:16 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "SteelAngel" > > That's the problem.. The rights to the world would be tres expensif. I'd > drop a hundred down to help out, but I can't afford much more. Price is determined by supply and demand -- so if there is less demand for Mystara, it might be a lot cheaper. How much is WotC asking for the rights to Mystara? I would personally be willing to go up to $5K plus whatever anyone else wishes to chip in. While I seriously doubt that I am in the right ballpark in terms of serious money, who knows? ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:57:42 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 21:09 20/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, [iso-8859-1] Andr=E9s Piquer Otero wrote: > >> well, White Wolf is a big company, so I guess they have payed lotsa >> royalties for the RL rights... could we make a tiny co-op of sorts??= Black > >That's the problem.. The rights to the world would be tres expensif. I'd >drop a hundred down to help out, but I can't afford much more.=20 > >Another problem that Mystara faces that Ravenloft did not is the existence >of the Kargatane. Ravenloft had a small cabal of 'official' writers and >net-book makers.=20 > >Mystara has no such beast.=20 My site is such a beast, we might only have the aid an assitance of one ex-author, Bruce Heard, but the Vaults of Pandius is the official voice of Mystara. >There really >isn't an "official" voice. Over the 20 years that Mystara has been around >in various forms, everyone on this list has acquired a completely >different "feel" for what the world is. Because of this, the MML and the >3e list has been a hotbed of infighting - based solely of the fact that >everyone and their brother has a distinct vision of what Mystara is.=20 does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? a mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for= me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:30:01 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Colin Wilson Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010221215738.008c7028@mail.alphalink.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? a > mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of > Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? Now this sounds interesting. Do elaborate? Cheers, Col. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:32:58 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:30 21/02/01 +0000, you wrote: >> does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? a >> mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of >> Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? > >Now this sounds interesting. > >Do elaborate? well the Vaults of Pandius is the official site, full stop - do you want it to be an authoritative voice on new official Mystaran material? shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:38:38 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20010221215738.008c7028@mail.alphalink.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, shawn stanley wrote: > My site is such a beast, we might only have the aid an assitance of one > ex-author, Bruce Heard, but the Vaults of Pandius is the official voice of > Mystara. There is a MAJOR difference between the Kargatane and the Vaults. Whereas every interesting idea and theory and supplement is added to the vaults (and rightly so!) The Kargatane release only a few 'official' netbooks, and pretty much ignore everything else. Now, I'm not bashing your page Stan - It is the _best_ Mystara resource out there! But my point is that our voices are eclectic. Who is to say what is 'official' at the Vaults? I think this arguement came up before just before the vaults were named by WoTC as 'The Site'. > does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? a > mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of > Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? That's a good question. Do we want printed materials so badly as to 'qualify' some materials, and 'disqualify' others from print/canon? It's a big decision that requires a _lot_ of consideration, and may alienate a lot of people.... Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:41:52 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.1.20010220190106.00c629a0@cogsci.ucsd.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, David S. Leland wrote: > I'd be interested to know yours (or anyone's) assessment of what > aspects or flavors of Mystara come from which > writer's/designers. Care to share your impressions? Just off the top of my head.. Bruce always seemed to make the setting more "fun" - Look at the Orcs of Thar, or even the "Princess Ark" stories. Allston's designs were more practical. As I said it's just a feeling.. Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:45:31 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <09ee01c09bbd$9c9f8c80$ec62353f@q6s7w2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, David Knott wrote: > Price is determined by supply and demand -- so if there is less > demand for Mystara, it might be a lot cheaper. How much is > WotC asking for the rights to Mystara? I would personally be 1) Less demand? No.. I think that there actually is a fairly high demand, but the fanbase isn't an organized team.. yet.. 2) I would bet that the rights may be in the $10-$50k range, not much more, and not much less. Is that WoTC Brand Manager still on the list? Can you help out with these numbers? Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:58:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, I don't think that the Vaults bein a site which collects eclectic materials would be too much of a problem... it could be more of an advantage! campaign settings always offer different lines of development, and 3E and the D20 system seem to encourage that: take those articles in Dragon and Dungeon fall issues about "Greyhawk 2000": i don't think anybody would call it "canon material", even if it comes in an official Wizards publication. And it would be interesting to see Wizards opinion on the production of Mystara items by D20 franquise... I think there are lots of options, and not all of them involve the acquisition of the full copyright in the setting. It's possible to keep a development franquise, while the rights are kept by the original owner. That's not a good deal in money-making terms, but it's a good chance to get some products in circulation... and production is not so much money-consuming with the tech which can render module-products in ready-to-print electronic format. Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:48:20 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Bead of Oblivion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/18/01 6:00:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, m.mathes@12MOVE.DE writes: << Alex Benson said: > In a message dated 2/16/01 4:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > hersh67@BELLATLANTIC.NET writes: > > << Sigh, I told my self not to do this, but here it is. What is so dangerous > about Nithia? So much so that a bunch of immortals that can hardly agree on > most things would set aside their ancient enenimity and concentrate on wiping > out the memory of a certain group of 'mere mortals'? >> > yes, yes, yes, yes and another yes. whats the use of a great source of adventure possibilities when it is forgotten before a campaign can evolve more then one step.>> well...i guess it really depends upon the individual campaign and what the DM has planned. as i mentioned earlier, i never used the BoO. i am just trying to offer some thoughts on the matter for those that do, or plan to, use it. i am interested to hear from folks that have used it. in particular how the memory erase has affected subsequent events. i don't game anymore so any future use of the BoO by your truly would probably involve its destruction. perhaps as part of some epic quest where the PCs need info from the area but the BoO hinders their success. perhaps the nithians had a spell or potion that is the only cure for some dreaded ailment (plague, curse, etc.) thus the pcs must destroy the BoO to secure any knowledge gained. or perhaps some immortal uses the destruction of the BoO as part of a quest for immortality. there are multple avenues to pursue. << i handle the Nithian civilisation like its RW counterpart the egyptians. untill the middle of the 19th century the egyptians were known to a lot of historicans but the only known facts were the short passages in the bible and some texts written by sokrates. so their real history was uncovered until champouillon (dont know the right spelling at the moment ;)) translated the text on the stone from rosette. how they managed to built the huge pyramids is even a riddle today. several theories exist (including help from spacers;)) especially the echnaton/nofretete era have stayed mysterious untill today. he was the pharaoh who tried to get rid of the pantheon and establish a monotheistic belief. very soon after his dead all of his buildings were destroied and his and nofretetes names were erased from every text! so my pcs stummble across some nithian evidence from time to time but don't get enough facts to reconstruct any valid picture.>> oh yes. nithia is one of the old ancient cultures. misinformation and plain old ignorance could and should be used. afterall...this is a fantsy setting and there is little way in a solid and accurate information system. archane knowledge of the ancient cultures should be limited to a select few sages and resulting from years of study. and these folks are not just going to giveaway their life's work. anyway...some of this information could be based on false information, false perception, or plain out assumption. it doesn't have to be completely accurate. in fact, i think that a few "oversights" make for a better game environment and offer more adventure opportunities. << ps: the KoA box adventures include the hidden nithian pyramid below threshold!! and any curious pc can learn a lot about nithia when he manages to communicate with the undead in the pyramid. >> yes. i imagine that there are nithian traces all over mystara thanks to their colonial interests. i had forgotten about the pyramid. time and ignorance may have diminished that nithian origin a bit...however there should still be ample opportunities for devoted nithian-phile PCs to gather information without actually going to the emerite of nithia. especially as they keep running into peculiar reports on others that return without any knowledge of nithia. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:48:36 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Alex Benson Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have been looking over this thread and would like to point out a few details. We are all fans of Mystara and naturally the idea of controlling the rights, events, and interests of Mystaran works is appealing. Financially we could probably swing it. I mean there are around 250 members on the MML. I have no idea how many additional fans are on the MMB. Anyway...chipping in we could probably compile enough funds to make a legitimate offer to WotC. However I have to ask what we really gain? All of us have written, or are currently in the middle of, some Mystaran relevant work. The Mystaran Line is dead as far as WotC is concerned so we really have no official competition. Likewise, WotC has not really expressed any constraints to our manipulations of the Line. Unless they decide to revive the Line, I see no reason why they would. Afterall...the trend seems to be a refocusing of the limited market on FR products with a secondary product line geared towards the generic adventures. WotC has reaped some recruitment benefits from the developement of Computer RPGs such as Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and the upcoming NeverWinter Nights (which I am really excited about). The focus on FR could benefit us in a lower market price for Mystara's rights. However, it all goes back to what do we really get? If we were to go ahead, collect the money, present the offer, and make the deal then we are stuck with what to do with the rights. I can tell you from personal experience in the Net Almanac that it is VERY difficult to get a concise and unified front in dealing with any sect, faction, or attribute of Mystara. Each fan has their own favorite and that favoritism shows in their works. How are you going to moderate who gets a bloody nose this year and who reaps the rewards? Monetarily we have little to gain from securing the rights and publishing our own Mystaran Line. The market is limited as is and we lack the marketing and distribution clout to put our line on a competitive footing. Likewise the costs would probably kill us. Afterall...we would have to subcontract out the actual printing and artwork to make it commercially presentable. Even TSR (and then WotC) saw the economic deficiencies of Mystara. Assumption of Mystara's official reigns would still remain a part-time hobby. We would not make enough money to be able to quit our regular jobs to devote our full attentions to Mystara. Just short of a handful of folks buying the rights, I see no change from fan-based contributor to full-time writer. Who is going to buy the products? The market is limited. If we bought the rights we would further limit the market by making the potential product purchasers the owners. The RPG industry is hard-pressed enough as it is to sell its wares. IIRC just the other day there was mention of the demise of one of the good ole companies. To grow (and survive) Mystara's fanbase needs to grow. Recruitment could best be done over the internet, MML, and MMB. Build those gaming groups up and get newbies involved. Of course I am a hypocrite in this regard as I do not game nor do I plan on trying to game. The gaming crowd in my area is essentially dead...or too weird for my tastes. Either way the potential for new Mystara recruits is dismal around hear. Mystara is a rather old fashioned game setting with its attributes standing as stoic reminders of the classical images of "high fantasy". I think that we all can agree that we are all long-time gamers and purists...hence the reverence of D&D over AD&D editions. Mystara symbolizes D&D and the old cut and dry means of gaming. This is a bit sad IMO as I am sure that we Mystarans are some of the more passionate, intellectual, and analytical fans of RPG. IMO Mystara needs a bit of an overhaul if it is to attract new fans. Look at the bevy of works done by the fanbase. The Gaz Nations are essentially unchanged since the canon timelines stopped off. We are still playing upon plotlines established in AC1000 and Wrath. There is also a plethora of works that move away from the KW nations. I cannot blame them, I have done the same by refocusing on ancient Mystaran history and the untapped boundaries of Davania. No one seems willing to stir things up on the KW. It is not just the stagnancy of the KW that needs to be readdressed. The NPCs and personalities need to be addressed. Everything and everyone is so cut and dry and "painted" in black and white or good and evil. There are no truly human acting NPCs. IMO that is why my local area gaming crowd favors darker RPGs such as VtM and non-personal wargames. In either genre, circumstances dictate the actions of the primary players, not the ideas or ideals of good, evil, or the template of "traditional high fantasy". Not to be too harsh on Tolkein, afterall his precedents were undercut by generalizations and the fanbase as the RPG trade evolved. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people portray elves as pointy eared humans, then complain about their attributes being unbalancing. The balancing factors are that they (even the most kind and noble ones) are ancient and arrogant. They are as likely to risk their lives for lowly humans as a human is to risk his life for an orc. IMO Mystara was undergoing some of these changes towards its eventual demise. Bruce began "humanizing" NPCs in his works...especially VotPA. Ann Dupuis began developing characters and not rehashing NPCs in her works. Even the highly criticized Aaron Allston took some deviations from the previous molds that dictated NPCs. Change was what the TSRers were trying when they implemented the events of WotI. Unfortunately, mishandling by TSR management, the conversion to AD&D and the extent (and basis) of the changes eroded that effort. The trick to any changes is in retaining the attributes that make Mystara what it is. If done wrong Mystara will just become a compilation of other RPG settings and become gimmicky. Say...here is an idea. We all have opinions and I have voiced some here. Why not let the MML voice their own opinions on Mystara's overhaul. List changes that you would like to see in the coming years. Or list changes since canon Mystara since the GAZ era or Wrath or after the PWAs/JA. You can send them to the MML. Or if you feel a bit nervous about criticizing works, send them to me via private mail. Confidentiality assured. I'll compile these changes...all changes....for posting. It may prove to be inspiring to the Almanac Staff. At least it will allow some good old healthy venting :-) Anyway....I am against the acquisition of the rights to Mystara. I see no reason for it asside from its writers having the personal satisfaction of owning it, controlling it, or having their names in print. Now if the buyers were to address the acquisition as a serious business venture, I would definitely buy the products for as long as they are worth buying. BTW- if any of the above came off as being harsh or directed towards any specific individuals, I appologize. The above are my thoughts on the matters discussed (Mystara's future) and bear no intended animosity. Some of the MMLers from old that remember me before my "lurker-dom" may have noticed that I am a bit more laid back than I was. Likewise I am more honest (to the point of being insulting). Events in the last few months have initiated this general change. IMO it is for the best and is quite therapeutic. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:09:07 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Caroletti Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > a > mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of > Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? Really I don't know. If it helped Mystara to live again in stores, yes. If it wouldn't, no for sure. Iulius Sergius Scaevola Captain of the XXth Cohort Port Lucinius, Thyatis ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:17:23 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alex Benso made a lot of good points. Just some musings around them: 1) the marketing-distribution resources are an issue, yes, but it's not too hard to think of "taking it to the roots": TSR started as a bunch of gamers presenting some fanzine-like, in physical quality and production kind, materials. They just were interesting to the gaming audience and they were accepted by the gaming community! Now we live in 2001, the tabletop-gaming community may be falling to other stuff, but now communication is wider (as lists like this evidence) and tech aids production of printed stuff. With a passable computer and printer, some editing software and your local xerox, you can provide your area of specialized gaming stores and clubs with fanzine-like products. 2) D20 system seems to focus on those private initiatives: gaming magazines, small companies, dedicated websites are doing quite a big deal of the stuff for Wizards. On the other hand, WotC itself seems to be producing adventures and stuff at a slower rate intentionally, as they plan their biggest asset to come from the core books and their future additions, not to mention their growing dedication to support for computer-based merchandising (all the FR computer stuff plus the Diablo II experiences). So I think that gamers will look for adventuring resources more and more outside of the narrow span of "what's the last from wizards?" way of thinking. That was the demise of TSR (more modules and setting possibilites per year than anybody could count). Any production which presents alternative material with design quality (and design is something more than colourful fonts and tons of pretty pictures which make the product more expensive but don't provide game-meaningful elements) is likely to be well-received. Already there are quite a few non-Wizards D20 adventures and settings out there, some are on the crappy side, some are good and promising, even more than some of the fresh 3E Wizards adventures. 3) Congruence: well, Mystara (and, I think, all the other xD&D settings) have never been completely congruent, and that's IMO not bad. They just need to be appealing and adaptable. Compare X10 and WotI: both of them have interesting ideas and story elements which can move any DM into action; both have "down" sides (too little story development in X10, too tight event schedule and few adventures in WotI); and both are incompatible (unless you play the Nomads War in the far future), but any good DM can use them both in conjunction and improve his campaign. As some other listmembers pointed, take the different approaches to the setting description and development by BH and AA, take also the shift from Old World centered vision of the 14 GAZs into the Alphatian-heroes oriented PA . As the cancelled projects for Mystara read, the next series of supplements were going to be supported by the PA cast when travelling around Sind, Heldann and Wendar, including both GAZ-like supplements and adventures. That's a shift, but a shift of accent any DM can get around, and richness of the setting's visions increases. 4) In the present time, if new Mystara stuff were to be produced, it would be wise IMO to give it a "generic focus", just like the classic archaic TSR modules or, more recently, like the SC revamping for AD&D: a world-specific supplement, but whose particularities, geography and gameplay possibilities make it interesting enough to be included in an ongoing campaign. To initially adjust to that, including adventures matching to the setting, would possibly get generic-own campaing playing groups' attention. Later, more specific products could appear, if the interest is high enough. Think also of the Internet support: if there's an attractive site offering generic info about Mystara (and Shawn's site meets the qualities, as well as some others, like magnificent Thib's mapping resourve), gaming groups can use supplements without having to invest in a whole series of expensive products for a campaign setting. 5) So, coming back to the deceased ongoing project for Mystara by the late TSR, those ideas look really appealing: Wendar, Sind and Heldann: more or less isolated realms, each of them with a "different" feeling which can provide richness even if used outside of a Mystara campaign; link some adventures to them and there can be a really "starting package" for potential gaming groups who wish for detailed campaign info and good adventures outside the voluntarily small offer of such made by Wizards (not saying that their offer is bad at all, just that it's more focused than most AD&D buyers have been used to for the last 20 years). OK, for small musing that's being too long... Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:11:53 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3A940443.2010704@tin.it> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 19:09 2/21/01 +0100, Caroletti wrote: >> a >> mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of >> Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? > >Really I don't know. If it helped Mystara to live again in stores, yes. >If it wouldn't, no for sure. OK, let me put it more bluntly than Shawn has, although I think he's making this point in a more polite manner, as have some others: It's the year 2002. The rights have been obtained for a D20 publisher to do a Mystara line of licensed books, starting with a big hardcover world book. (All of the following goes for Official Mystara stuff on the Vaults of Pandius, too.) As in all publishing ventures of this sort, there's a single person overseeing the line, whose vision for what Mystara was, is, and will be shapes the line. Who is it? How is it decided? If I scraped together the money, would you be comfortable with Beau Yarbrough's Mystara, given my proclivities and avoided interests and distastes? If not me, then who? (I'm using myself as an example, not as a logical Mystara Czar choice.) I don't know that there is as fractious a group in gaming fandom as Mystara seems to have. Even when people aren't trying to, they seem to alienate different segments of the fanbase. (I know that I hold no reverance for OD&D, for instance, so every time sweeping statements in support of it are made about Mystara fans, even with the best of intentions, I feel excluded from the fan base right there.) IMO, there is NO ONE who could please even half the fanbase, and many people would bemoan the "further betrayal" of Mystara, even as people are still kvetching about the AD&Dizaton of the setting almost a decade ago -- something, incidentally, that those new to the setting always have a hard time figuring out what the problem is with (to dangle a participle). There may some substantive differences between the D&D and AD&D Mystara, but every time it's discussed, the conversation dies away with, essentially, "it just FEELS wrong." Well, any 3E conversion is going to feel wrong to many of the loyalists, both because of the fact that there is a conversion needed (Do we have dwarves able to be wizards? Are there sorcerers in Mystara? Do we monkey around with the preferred classes of the races? Do the 3E PHB races accurately represent the races of Mystara?) and, ultimately, because the guiding light of the project (almost certainly The One Who Paid For The Rights) is going to take a stand on something, maybe major or maybe minor, and outrage part of his or her presumed market. Having said that, I'd be happy to see such a D20 line begin, and have been repeatedly annoying people about it on the Usenet for months. Of course, if the Dark Shire turns out to be the D20 version of the same, I will be -- you guessed it -- outraged ... In other words, be careful what you wish for. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:16:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010221101153.007df6e0@mail.boilingpoint.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:11 2/21/01 -0800, Beau Yarbrough wrote: >Who is it? How is it decided? If I scraped together the >money, would you be comfortable with Beau Yarbrough's Mystara, given my >proclivities and avoided interests and distastes? Er, that should be "avowed" interests and distastes. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:24:02 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: mark mckinney Subject: looking for history of D&D game rules MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii im thinking of doing a paper in college on the history of rpgs but im needing a good deal of first hand knowledge im hoping someone on this list can help or steer me in the right direction. as far as this list goes the main thing im looking for is the origin and reasons for creating the D&D rules. im really curious why tsr created two rules sets and went on as wild a tangent as they did with the known world or Mystara. by wild i mean the immortals rules, the hollow world the repurcursions of the wrath of the immortals,etc..i would like to know and understand the reasoning that went into each box set for D&D. belief me this is not a putdown off mystara and the D&D rules. i love both and have played using both for almost 12 years. this is just for my paper and curiousity's sake. if there is anybody that know of a site that has this kind of info or any of you actually worked on the above or know info pertaining to it, please post it on the list or e-mail me at gwolf76@altavista.com thank you all for your time and good day ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:40:57 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Beau said: > Having said that, I'd be happy to see such a D20 line begin, and have been >repeatedly annoying people about it on the Usenet for months. Of course, if >the Dark Shire turns out to be the D20 version of the same, I will be -- >you guessed it -- outraged ... > In other words, be careful what you wish for. ...or otherwise, vengeful dark hin monks will descend upon your domicile, ruin your furniture, eat all of your food, and administer a couple of good kicks to your solar plexus - just to ensure you have a rotten day. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:33:34 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Beau Yarbrough Subject: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <200102211840.NAA19565@freenet10.carleton.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 13:40 2/21/01 -0500, Geoff Gander wrote: >Beau said: > >> Having said that, I'd be happy to see such a D20 line begin, and have been >>repeatedly annoying people about it on the Usenet for months. Of course, if >>the Dark Shire turns out to be the D20 version of the same, I will be -- >>you guessed it -- outraged ... >> In other words, be careful what you wish for. > >...or otherwise, vengeful dark hin monks will descend upon your domicile, >ruin your furniture, eat all of your food, and administer a couple of good >kicks to your solar plexus - just to ensure you have a rotten day. :-) Now, Geoff, this is 3E. They'll be multi-classed half-dragon hin monk/psionicist/sorcerer/blackguards. BEAU http://www.LBY3.com/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:47:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20010221103334.007de6a0@mail.boilingpoint.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Beau Yarbrough wrote: > Now, Geoff, this is 3E. They'll be multi-classed half-dragon hin > monk/psionicist/sorcerer/blackguards. Can't beat the multi-classed Wizard/Modular-Mage/Lasher/Technomancer that I'm building :) Ethan ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:07:43 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Beau wrote: > Now, Geoff, this is 3E. They'll be multi-classed half-dragon hin >monk/psionicist/sorcerer/blackguards. Ah yes, I forgot. But then, they would also have to have reams of specialty monk spells too, in addition to their other innate abilities. :-) Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:58:52 +1300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: c_furneaux Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is SO much Mystara out there already.... Personally I like that, but it does have the effect that anything that we do doesn't have such an impact because it is only a small part of a huge picture. All we seem to be doing is filling in the details, and disscussing the minute points like what happens now that the NoS drains from entropy. I think one of the original beauty's of Mystara was it's existance as the known world. To me that said that there's more out there, a lot more, but your not likly to ever see it all. It was mysterious. Then came the Gaz's. These were great because they elaborated the setting and gave places flavour. My opinion is that at this point TSR had a bunch of peices it didn't know what to do with. It made some more modules, based explictly on the setting (the DDA series) and somewhere along the line the made the Hollow world (which to me is an attempt to explore Mystara's past without going back in time (a.k.a. the DA series)and is more of a visit, and play a few modules, then a home (as interesting as that would be) and to be a surprise to the characters) The modules didn't have as much sucess as they would have liked. They were ment to bring players to play "in" Mystara (b.t.w., I hate that name, more on that later though), but the beauty of the original modules was not that they were set in mystara, it was that they were "grand". Think about it, Isle of dread, curse of Xanathon, master of the desert nomads, Earthshaker (btw where is is now?), crown of ancient glory, war rafts of Kron, five coins for a kingdom, test of the warlords. The names say it all. And any fan should know some or most of these. They were all set in one world, the dungeons and dragons world. They all didn't have to happen, but they could. Then came the mother of it all, WotI. A module that revamped (and IMO re-vitalized) the immortal rules which I also own and although they are good rules it was always pretty much hey look at me I'm immortal. WotI game meaning to being a mystarian immortal, and without the module, they would have been little more then another printing of the old rules. This did however do what to me was a disservice to the game. It tied everything togeather. Now there's nothing wrong with it being tied togeather in physical reality, but it should be something the immortals know of, not mortals. To mortals it shouldn't be "oh didn't you hear from joe down the road there from alphatia that the master been plotting to seize sind, you better get their quick." But as the PC's arive in darokin "we're under attack, quick get inside." "what the hell is going on?" It does depend how you play it, but all infomation should have a personal twist, eg. "Duke Stefan, the ambasidor is reporting that draokin is under attack and will fall without assistance, the armys came out of the sind desert from the east, but we do not believe them to be sindhi in origin." sure people may find out but it takes a long time for word to travel. Then come the Almanacs, probally some of the greatest resouces we have at our disposal, but if you got one, you got them all, in a manor of speaking. I personally own PWA I & II, and sure the events are different, and it is interesting to know what is going on in the dnd world, but most of it is information that a PC should never know or even find out about. It's has 4 wonderful points of interest though, It gives you information about all the major countrys at a glance, it gives stats for their armys, which was always a bitch prior to that, it gives you lots of NPC's to play with, and it gives you adventure ideas. The problem I have is that if you use some adventure ideas the rest almost seems to go to waste. With the internet almanacs, thats great because it allows us to share our own campaigns and ideas with each other without having to buy it. And the best thing about the internet ones, is that things don't feel so set in stone, just like how the old modules were. you can adapt all the great old modules to any time, without much trouble (for example the recent Q on test of the warlords) yet they are still "grand" > All of us have written, or are currently in the middle of, some Mystaran > relevant work. WotC has not really expressed any constraints to our manipulations of the Line. I would like to know exactly what the limit is. I mean if you take the extreme limitof taking one of the gaz's and adding lots of stuff to it like history and character elaboration and adventure schetches (don't include the original ones of course unless you elaborated on them) added more info on different ruling factions, but bassically included all the infomation in the original just bulked out and with more depth, would they mind? > To grow (and survive) Mystara's fanbase needs to grow. Recruitment could best > be done over the internet, MML, and MMB. Build those gaming groups up and get > newbies involved. Being relitively new back to the gaming fold, perhaps my opinion here might be worth while. Mystara has so much going for it, BUT it is very hard to get into. All of the offical products are dead and for those of us outside the U.S. it is nearly as cheap to buy new products as to buy 2nd hand stuff on the internet at US$8 a time shipping for me (screw that) that the old products don't offer all that much help to getting new fans. The net bassed stuff is great however and could bring in newbies if conditions were right. The way to get someone to play your game IMO is to enable them to pick up a module and play it, and at the end something is acomplished but there is more out there (an evil prince etc...) pretty much like the original modules. Gaz's are an awesome DM utl, providing a wealth of infomation and allowing a DM to give flavour to a setting, and throw in more things that he finds useful, but are pretty much useless to a newbie. Bassically what I'm saying is that for example shawn's site is impressive and awe inspireing, a wealth of infomation, but if you don't know what your looking for it is not a lot of help. If on the other hand their was a front end (or just another end) to the site that enabled a new DM to start using some matterial without having to know all the background (which often seems the case) and makes that "leg up" infomation acessible I think that would help. Likewise, the net info is awesome, but a lot is left to be desired in the presentation. When you see a product in PDF with artwork, maps, and well displayed info you are much more likely to use it then a mess of text on some kind of background. IMO it is the accessability that will atract newbies. adnd is like a gaz to me. If someone shows you the ropes, it's easy, but if you have to wade through the book it's much harder. With OD&D all you really have is some attack charts, some basic ability modifiers and some special abilities, everything else you can ignore or make up as a DM provided you have a module to play. (I know adnd isn't much harder but it is more daunting. The red box consister of about 10-14 pages of actual rules, the rest was just detals of classes, and adventures, or aids for running and making them (monster and tresure descriptions etc). > Mystara is a rather old fashioned game setting with its attributes standing > as stoic reminders of the classical images of "high fantasy". I think that we > all can agree that we are all long-time gamers and purists...hence the > reverence of D&D over AD&D editions. Mystara symbolizes D&D and the old cut > and dry means of gaming. This is a bit sad IMO as I am sure that we Mystarans > are some of the more passionate, intellectual, and analytical fans of RPG. D&D just seems less hassle/more freedom. (I'm not sure what you mean by cut and dry) But I do think that what has been fan produced for mystara wipes the floor with what has been fan produced for other settings. > IMO Mystara needs a bit of an overhaul if it is to attract new fans. Look at > the bevy of works done by the fanbase. The Gaz Nations are essentially > unchanged since the canon timelines stopped off. We are still playing upon > plotlines established in AC1000 and Wrath. There is also a plethora of works > that move away from the KW nations. I cannot blame them, I have done the same > by refocusing on ancient Mystaran history and the untapped boundaries of > Davania. No one seems willing to stir things up on the KW. I think the best thing that could get new fans is modules like those of old. The ones that make the changes seem "grand" (rescue the king, save the world, slay the great and mighty king of the dragons, etc), perhaps set before the gaz's. I think the problem I have is that WotI gave canon a timeline. Before it, time mattered, but when things happened didn't so much. After it that all became important. Where it can go and what has to happen for a module is important, but I think if it has specific dates for all campaigns that puts people off. The fact that there seems to be a present for mystara wories me slightly. > It is not just the stagnancy of the KW that needs to be readdressed. The NPCs > and personalities need to be addressed. Everything and everyone is so cut and > dry and "painted" in black and white or good and evil. There are no truly > human acting NPCs. well I do think that depends how you play them. I also think that in even tolken high fantasy there are human acting people. Take Boromir, or Bilbo, or legolas. Yes they are on a great quest for good, but they want to do it their way. > Not to be too harsh on Tolkein, afterall his precedents were undercut by > generalizations and the fanbase as the RPG trade evolved. One of my biggest > pet peeves is when people portray elves as pointy eared humans, then complain > about their attributes being unbalancing. The balancing factors are that they > (even the most kind and noble ones) are ancient and arrogant. They are as > likely to risk their lives for lowly humans as a human is to risk his life > for an orc. too right! > Anyway....I am against the acquisition of the rights to Mystara. I think the only good that is likely to come from having the rights would be enabling more people to get their hands on the old stuff, but thats happening anyway... I'm sorry to go on for so long. But I felt like ranting. Hope some of it's productive. (hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did it's unintentional although that should go without saying) Chris. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:05:46 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "paul.benfield" Subject: Re: Future of Mystara In-Reply-To: <005601c09c51$a47d6820$a59460cb@cutie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In reply to : c_furneaux Bassically what I'm saying is that for example shawn's site is impressive and awe inspireing, a wealth of infomation, but if you don't know what your looking for it is not a lot of help. If on the other hand their was a front end (or just another end) to the site that enabled a new DM to start using some matterial without having to know all the background (which often seems the case) and makes that "leg up" infomation acessible I think that would help. Likewise, the net info is awesome, but a lot is left to be desired in the presentation. When you see a product in PDF with artwork, maps, and well displayed info you are much more likely to use it then a mess of text on some kind of background. IMO it is the accessability that will atract newbies. I agree with a lot of what has been said regarding this issue, this in particular really struck a cord with me, I really think the available online material is mostly of use to existing fans who know the world's background and also possibly the events and history of WOTI. If we want to recruit new players to the setting, especially via the internet then we need a website or webpages specifically catering to their needs whether new to D&D (whatever edition) or for more experienced players looking for a new setting. New players need maps, details of a town / region / country for characters to be from and most importantly adventures that capture the imagination and introduce them to the setting; highlighting what makes Mystara unique and special. There is a wealth of quality material available already but I doubt much of it is really packaged or aimed at attracting new players. We need to recreate the ideals of Gaz 1 (Karameikos) in providing a complete starting package in one place that gives new players everything they need to discover a world of adventure - Mystara. IMHO another reality we must face is that very many potential new players will have bought one of the 3rd edition products and will be hunting about for something to do with the rules. Surely anyone who comes to roleplaying through OD&D will know about Mystara anyway! If we are to persuade new players to play in Mystara and contribute to the online effort then we need to provide them with guidelines that are relevant to where they are coming from. I'm not suggesting for a moment that we cast "Transmute All to D20" on anything Mystaran but it could be a really beneficial netproject to create a D20/3rd edition "beginners guide to Mystara" and to plaster it all over the web on search engines etc to try and grow the community. We could even duplicate all the material for 2e AD&D and OD&D as well to prove how versatile Mystara can be. Just my humble thoughts.... Paul Benfield (paul.benfield@ntlworld.com) ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:54:16 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s_Piquer_Otero?= Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paul Benfield wrote: >We could even >duplicate all the material for 2e AD&D and OD&D as well to prove how >versatile Mystara can be. The FAQ about ESD at the Wizard's site encourages the creation of conversion files for existing former-editions materials, which will include, at some point hopefully, the Mystara stuff. Conversion files for downloadable materials can be a good encouragement to excite new players' curiosity! Andr�s ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:22:22 +1300 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: c_furneaux Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I agree with a lot of what has been said regarding this issue, this in > particular > really struck a cord with me, I really think the available online material > is > mostly of use to existing fans who know the world's background and > also possibly the events and history of WOTI. glad I'm not alone :-) > If we want to recruit new players to the setting, especially via the > internet then > we need a website or webpages specifically catering to their needs whether > new to D&D > (whatever edition) or for more experienced players looking for a new > setting. IMO D&D (esp. the basic set) was so sucessfull because it was aimed at this audiance. the rules cyclopedia and adnd (IMO) was not. If you can get new players your fanbase will grow. Perhaps it would be posible to release a net version/re-do of the Basic set, cause I know theres a mystarian netbook out there with all the rules and adndmonsters.com has the 2nd ed. rulebook on it's site so I don't believe wizards would be against it. Perhaps re-do the Mystarian NB in PDF, and release both to all sites that we can find that have a section marked free RPG's. Then oncce we got them hooked we shatter their minds with the wealth of the fan based infomation. > New players need maps, details of a town / region / country for characters > to be from and > most importantly adventures that capture the imagination and introduce them > to the > setting; highlighting what makes Mystara unique and special. agreed. It's so hard to find a good long on-line module these days. > There is a wealth of quality material available already but I doubt much of > it is really > packaged or aimed at attracting new players. We need to recreate the ideals > of Gaz 1 (Karameikos) > in providing a complete starting package in one place that gives new players > everything they > need to discover a world of adventure - Mystara. agreed again. Perhaps it wizards could get off their but and make it avalible we could save a lot of time and effort by just using it. Perhaps we should pertion them to make this one of the free ones, because not just us but them too could profit from the interest in on-line materials. > > > IMHO another reality we must face is that very many potential new players > will have bought one of the 3rd edition products and will be hunting about > for something to do with the rules. Surely anyone who comes to roleplaying > through OD&D will know about Mystara anyway! If we are to persuade new > players to play in Mystara and contribute to the online effort then we need > to provide them with guidelines that are relevant to where they are coming > from. That is a fair comment, and an issue that someone needs to deal with.How does mystara cope with multi-classing, etc. For those of us out there who play OD&D repopulating the world with multi-class characters does not appeal, but if you convert to 3E how do you discorage it? > I'm not suggesting for a moment that we cast "Transmute All to D20" on > anything Mystaran but it could be a really beneficial netproject to create a > D20/3rd edition "beginners guide to Mystara" and to plaster it all over the > web on search engines etc to try and grow the community. We could even > duplicate all the material for 2e AD&D and OD&D as well to prove how > versatile Mystara can be. Agreed. My question is are/would we be allowed to re-produce the old matterials with the old text, just all the stat's changed to 3e? with same or different pictures (does it matter)? If we did convert them, how interested would wizards be/ what would they let us do with them? Just a thought. I definatly think a beginers guide to mystara could be good. Chris. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:50:33 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: kevin wyton Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: Colin Wilson >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] Future for Mystara? >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:30:01 +0000 > > > does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? > a > > mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of > > Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? > >Now this sounds interesting. > >Do elaborate? > >Cheers, > >Col. > Yes,one united voice speaks loudest.Tell us more Kevin >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:33:12 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Trinixx of Westmarch Subject: Re: Future of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed c_furneaux wrote: >I definatly think a beginers guide to mystara could be good. That makes three of us, Chris. I'm a newbie in this setting who has poked around at the vaults periodically, (particularly at the timelines and history) and the level of detail in both the site and the campaign is pleasing. However, all the material together is somewhat daunting in terms of where a DM is to begin if he wanted to take up the setting; I suppose one could take a geographical section and work within it, but in doing so one is likely missing critical pieces of campaign data detailed elsewhere, so this approach consequently lacks a sense of atmospheric totality. One therefore has the impression of dealing with an incomplete picture: "a slice of the world" rather then "the campaign as a whole." A beginner's guide would remedy this sense of ambiguity nicely. Just MHO. Take it easy all, -- Trinixx of Westmarch "The Master said, 'Only when the cold season comes is the point brought home that the pine and the cypress are the last to lose their leaves.'" -Confucius, _Analects_ IX.28. The Hellfire Campaign Rules Interpretation Archive http://travel.to/TheHellfireCampaign _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:14:34 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: SteelAngel Subject: Re: Future of Mystara In-Reply-To: <000b01c09c65$9c807c70$b4f3cb83@cutie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, c_furneaux wrote: > That is a fair comment, and an issue that someone needs to deal with.How > does mystara cope with multi-classing, etc. For those of us out there who > play OD&D repopulating the world with multi-class characters does not > appeal, but if you convert to 3E how do you discorage it? You don't. Lots of characters in oD&D would have ade great multi-classed characters. However, the rules prevented them from fully realizing that. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:31:48 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Dunlendor@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/2001 5:04:28 PM Central Standard Time, paul.benfield@NTLWORLD.COM writes: > I'm not suggesting for a moment that we cast "Transmute All to D20" on > anything Mystaran but it could be a really beneficial netproject to create a > D20/3rd edition "beginners guide to Mystara" and to plaster it all over the > web on search engines etc to try and grow the community. We could even > duplicate all the material for 2e AD&D and OD&D as well to prove how > versatile Mystara can be. Delurking for a bit- I'd like to chime in and post my support for this kind of project, the Known World has always been a source of inspiration and frustration for me. On one hand, its always brought back the fond memories of the simpler high fantasy games of my youth ( I still regularly bring new players I run through the Isle of Dread! ). On the other hand, its been a pain over the years to try and convert many of the things I liked about the setting to something more palatable to my players ( many of them whose vision of high fantasy runs more along the lines of Forgotten Realms novels and bad episodes of Dragonball Z ) and conversant to the rules ( IMO opinion, the AD&D setting version just didn't feel right ). I think a good idea to perhaps explore would be to "reinvent" the Known World. Perhaps the timeline for Mystara should be expanded upon and pushed forward, much as the Forgotten Realms is having done to it to separate the different rulesets. Then, all the new rules could be accomodated slightly more easily by the "that was then, this is now" explanation. The old modules, while I use them time and time again, can't be recreated. With the timeline progressed though, many of the activities of the past could be revamped and revisited much like the "Return To.." series with (I don't think) too much problems with anything other than detailing such works as derived copywritten works. I'd like to see the Known World becoming more dynamic and less stable, less cute gnomes and more vile villains. I'd like to see more flavors of Mystara added, and perhaps when the High Level rules come out everyone that liked the Immortal Set could come together for a prestige class available only when you hit level 36 that leads to immortality. Anyways, I'm just popping my head up and wiping the list with my opinions. Back to lurking, hope I haven't offended anyone. JMH ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:17:14 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Ricardo Matheus Subject: Re: Future of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I may be stressing points that have already been discussed in this thread but I�d like to contribute with my onw experience. When I first looked for Mystara material in the net (not long ago) in find out something very interesting. The information I found was very usefull for countries I had official material about, but almost uninteligible for the ones I didn�t. There was nothing to make up for the published material I was missing (and will be missing for a long time as I don�t live in USA and neither in Europe). This is a major stroke for begginers, who are supposed to have nothing nowadays. This is understandable for most of the material is writen by people who DO have most of the canon material and won�t be interested in copying their books in the net. As I din�t really swallow that WotC will be releasing OOP material in the net so soon, it is of crucial importance we start putting that old well-known facts about mystara on the net, if we want the setting to become popular. Darkblood _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:32:12 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Master's Pawn Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/21/2001 4:10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, au998@FREENET.CARLETON.CA writes: << Ah yes, I forgot. But then, they would also have to have reams of specialty monk spells too, in addition to their other innate abilities. :-) >> Don't forget the 5 Shires regional feats, and Blackflamethrower Prestige Class. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:46:20 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:38 21/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, shawn stanley wrote: > >> My site is such a beast, we might only have the aid an assitance of one >> ex-author, Bruce Heard, but the Vaults of Pandius is the official voice of >> Mystara. > >There is a MAJOR difference between the Kargatane and the Vaults. Whereas >every interesting idea and theory and supplement is added to the vaults >(and rightly so!) The Kargatane release only a few 'official' netbooks, >and pretty much ignore everything else. > >Now, I'm not bashing your page Stan - It is the _best_ Mystara resource >out there! But my point is that our voices are eclectic. Who is to say >what is 'official' at the Vaults? as the webmaster of the official site it could be said that I am. of course I haven't taken that role and have also moved to create a group of people who would answer such a question, the group has also yet to act but that's why I'm now asking the question - do you want us to? >I think this arguement came up before just before the vaults were named by >WoTC as 'The Site'. > >> does the Mystara community want an authoritative voice for such matters? a >> mechanism has already been put in place to enact that and the Vaults of >> Pandius have been given reign to act with authority. do you want it to? > >That's a good question. Do we want printed materials so badly as to >'qualify' some materials, and 'disqualify' others from print/canon? > >It's a big decision that requires a _lot_ of consideration, and may >alienate a lot of people.... exactly shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:49:05 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:45 21/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 20 Feb 2001, David Knott wrote: > >> Price is determined by supply and demand -- so if there is less >> demand for Mystara, it might be a lot cheaper. How much is >> WotC asking for the rights to Mystara? I would personally be > >1) Less demand? No.. I think that there actually is a fairly high demand, >but the fanbase isn't an organized team.. yet.. > >2) I would bet that the rights may be in the $10-$50k range, not much >more, and not much less. > >Is that WoTC Brand Manager still on the list? Can you help out with these >numbers? I'm making personal enquiries into this one shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:38:36 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "c_furneaux" > > That is a fair comment, and an issue that someone needs to deal with.How > does mystara cope with multi-classing, etc. For those of us out there who > play OD&D repopulating the world with multi-class characters does not > appeal, but if you convert to 3E how do you discorage it? One obvious way would be to create some very nice prestige classes whose qualifications are most easily met by characters who pick one class and stick with it for 17+ levels. Some possible examples: Cleric Lord: Must be able to cast 9th level divine spells. Fighter Lord: Must have BAB of +17 or better. Rogue Lord: Must have at least four Rogue class skills at rank 20 or better. Wizard Lord: Must be able to cast 9th level arcane spells. Multi-classed characters would have a tough time qualifying for any of these classes prior to level 20. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:02:18 +1100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: shawn stanley Subject: Re: Future of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:48 21/02/01 EST, you wrote: >I have been looking over this thread and would like to point out a few >details. We are all fans of Mystara and naturally the idea of controlling the >rights, events, and interests of Mystaran works is appealing. Financially we >could probably swing it. I mean there are around 250 members on the MML. I >have no idea how many additional fans are on the MMB. Anyway...chipping in we >could probably compile enough funds to make a legitimate offer to WotC. >However I have to ask what we really gain? well of course not everyone would chip in, to be viable it would have to be an extremely small group, 3 at the most probably, these people would then write or freelance out work they want done - everybody else would be the market >All of us have written, or are currently in the middle of, some Mystaran >relevant work. The Mystaran Line is dead as far as WotC is concerned so we >really have no official competition. Likewise, WotC has not really expressed >any constraints to our manipulations of the Line. well there are some constraints upon what I can put no the Vaults >No one seems willing to stir things up on the KW. Did you read World in Flames? >It is not just the stagnancy of the KW that needs to be readdressed. The NPCs >and personalities need to be addressed. Everything and everyone is so cut and >dry and "painted" in black and white or good and evil. There are no truly >human acting NPCs. I always thought that the humanity of Mystara and Mystarans was always more appealing to me than any other game world. shawn stanley http://dnd.starflung.com what have you done for me lately ... more to the point what have i done for me - mightyfew, "i can't wait" ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:42:49 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future for Mystara? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "SteelAngel" > > 1) Less demand? No.. I think that there actually is a fairly high demand, > but the fanbase isn't an organized team.. yet.. Compared to the Forgotten Realms? I am not sure of that. Also keep in mind that there was a tremendous drop-off in sales when TSR did that boneheaded 2E conversion -- and since the last 2E product was sold nobody has paid TSR or WotC for any Mystara product. Besides, I was hoping to drive the price down to something that I could afford.... ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 01:14:45 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: David Knott Subject: Re: Future of Mystara MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "shawn stanley" > > well there are some constraints upon what I can put no the Vaults I assume the constraints are that you cannot reproduce too much in the way of published material, right? Maybe we can negotiate some more limited rights -- such as the ability to publish decent summaries of the Known World and the Hollow World. The Savage Coast is not a problem -- it is well described in free downloads. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 23:29:30 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: Future of Mystara In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ricardo Matheus wrote: > I may be stressing points that have already been discussed in this thread > but I'd like to contribute with my onw experience. When I first looked for > Mystara material in the net (not long ago) in find out something very > interesting. The information I found was very usefull for countries I had > official material about, but almost uninteligible for the ones I didn't. > There was nothing to make up for the published material I was missing (and > will be missing for a long time as I don't live in USA and neither in > Europe). This is a very important point. I started getting back into the Known World a year or two ago, and at first I as really confused. Last I played was in the pre-gaz era, and it was really hard to make sense of all the fan material. The reason is because the fan material purposely omits any published information that might infrince on WotC's copyrights -- yet this is the most important and basic information on the setting. It is made more complicated by the fact that earlier materials do not contain information on later materials; Karameikos is easy to understand because almost everything has references to it, but try (as a beginner) to get a handle on Wendar, Thothia, or even Angmar/Aengmor/Oenkmar (I still don't have that all sorted out!) I persevered on the mailing list, studied the fan material extensively, and managed to pick up a few OOP items, and I'm *starting* to feel like I know the setting well enough to run a game in it. But I'm missing something like 90% of the material, so as I fill in the gaps I create yet another personal variant -- not because I want to, but because I lack information. This splintering will continue until good basic information is available, and the lack of information will also keep new players away from the setting. I agree with others: we need a good introduction, that *includes* essential published details. (I'm not suggesting we plagiarize, but write an original "second edition") Canon, etc.: I'm not a big fan of "hard" canon, in the sense of a person or group of persons exercising editorial control over the setting. That is good for other settings, but a lot of Mystara's flavor comes from it's eclectic nature. Mystara is not Allston, and it is not Heard -- it is the fusion of all contributions, including fan contributions. I also think that superdetailed timelines, while nifty and a good resource for establishing history, actually get in the way of game-play and are not at all "beginner friendly". All it takes is for the players to kill the wrong guy, or prevent some event from happening, and the future timeline is trashed. Now the GM either has to "railroad" the game to preserve the timeline, or wing it and deviate from established canon -- creating yet another variant. This is a problem with the Almanacs: they essentially pick elements out of the writer's campaigns and make them pseudo-canon. The almanacs are interesting but not especially useful. What I'd like to see: (1) A clear overview of the Known World, with an overview of each country, relating that country to the rest of the world. Each country should have a mini-gazetteer with a map, geography, list of towns and interesting places, important NPCs, adventure ideas, and its history and place in the world. The latter should offer a "snapshot" of the country in AC1000 and another one in AC1010. In paper/PDF form, probably about 12-16 pages. These should draw mostly on published sources, but may also include fan material. A variety of fan material could be included, even contradictory material, but should be labeled as addenda. (2) A simplified timeline of the entire world, relating only important changes. The superdetailed timeline is good as a reference, but a bit daunting for beginners, and it is hard to find major events in the mass of detail. The simplified timeline should try to be flexible enough to allow for variation in individual campaigns and (where possible) should not include details about things that the characters might directly have a hand in causing or preventing (like the downfall of the Black Eagle). Appropriate major events are things like the Alphatian Spike Assault. I really don't think that 3e should be an issue. Very little needs any game stats, and I'd favor just omitting them altogether. Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:51:44 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Wizards Shopper Subject: Re: Future of Mystara Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to know something about the rights for Mystara. How much are they (or would be?). Now imagine that we buy them from TSR/WotC/Hasbro..., would we be allowed = to republish the oldies?(maybe in pdf format, put them online)? In short , what would be our rights and obligations regarding all that has= been published before? thibault sarlat ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.