========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:54:20 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Jacob Skytte Subject: Re: City of Gold (was: Buying OOP stuff) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Angelo Bertolli wrote: > By the way, one thing that intrigued me that went by on this mailing = list is > talk about Blackmoor. I'm currently creating an adventure about an = ancient > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people = who > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human = race, > but were able to change shape. The talk about polymars and Blackmoor = was > very interesting. What resources could I look at about this? The Blackmoor resources are the adventures DA1-DA4. DA1 describes = Blackmoor in detail, while the others are mostly adventures. There's = also a fan-created Blackmoor Gaz out there (probably at the official = site). Later products briefly describe what happened to Blackmoor during = the following centuries: They combined magic and extra-planetary = technology and blew up the world. But to be ancestors of the human race, you should probably go even = further back to a time before Blackmoor. You should be looking at the = Hollow World boxed set for more ideas on this. Besides I'm not sure what = Polymars have to do with Blackmoor? Did I miss some discussion? And why = is their city made of gold? Jacob Skytte scythe@wanadoo.dk ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:07:23 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: City of Gold (was: Buying OOP stuff) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jacob Skytte wrote: > > Besides I'm not sure what Polymars have to do with Blackmoor? Oh, there was this article by DM, which explains what the polymars have to do with Blackmoor (actually, it sets their origin there): http://dnd.starflung.com/polymars.html http://dnd.starflung.com/redhurr.html -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:30:51 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: Psionics (with Savage Coast spoilers) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit John Calvin wrote: >> I don't see them as >> especially versed in mind-reading or other telepathic stuff. > > I don't know...I guess it depends on the type of telepathic power. Any powers having to > do with dreams I could see them having. I could also see them having empathy type powers > as well. I was going to say that I wouldn't give them access to any kind of 'mind > control' powers, but thinking about it I'm not so sure now. That might make for an > interesting villian...the Atraughin psionicist who lives alon out on the planes, and who > will possess you mind if you disterb him. Yes, I could see this. > Uhm, magic isn't natural as well (or more innatural than psionics, > depending on your POW). > > Right. But magic does have a very real presence in the KW, whereas psionics does not. I > meant that to a Known Worlder, a psionicist would seem very strange (and perhaps very > scary) indeed. Moreso than a mage (or cleric) would at any rate. You're right, though psionics use tend to be less apparent than magic (at least, telepathic and clairsentient powers are often undetectable through mundane means, and other powers can easily be confused with other forms of supernatural powers). -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 06:07:33 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Kar Ess Subject: Re: ierendi gaz crazy igor In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.crazyegor.com/ --- Ricardo Matheus wrote: > >Call up Crazy Egor's in Rochester, NY. > > Do they have e-mail? Maybe a URL? > Do they send stuff abroad? > > Darkblood > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:35:08 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Aaron E Nowack Subject: Re: Mystara-list, lets get busy! Um, or not... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:19:33 -0800 The Stalker writes: > >Your not the only one who gets a lot out of the > >debates, I've learnt a whole heep, although 600+ mails > >can be a bit daunting. I started putting togeather > >some stuff on stefan (james stuff included) but just > >haven't had time to sort through it all, cause so much > >of it is very interesting. > > > > Oh dear, oh dear... I don't look forward to the prospect of actually > being > confronted with things I might have said in the past. But I guess > you're > entitled since Aaron Nowack already did something similar on a > particularly > silly topic we had once were > the days"> :) And I vainly struggle to try and recall which topic this was... :) PS: Leave for nine days and my account starts bouncing three days into it. Grumble, grumble, grumble... Aaron Nowack "Never let reality get in the way of a good hypothesis." http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dungeon/5930/ ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:58:43 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: City of Gold? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Interesting things about the City of Gold: The walls which are made of gold are magical and cannot be damaged. This is a general rule, maybe there is SOMETHING that can damage them, but I haven't set anything to be that. Time flows differently. For every hour in the City, a month passes on the surface. >From: Mike Harvey >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] City of Gold? >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:02:37 +0000 > >Angelo wrote: > > I'm currently creating an adventure about an ancient > > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people >who > > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human >race, > > but were able to change shape. > >Okay, now I have to ask: > >Have you discovered some miraculous means to keep your players from >looting this city? If so please share it with us, because I'd love to >throw in some really opulent scenery without having to worry about >its "scrap value." PCs are like army ants, stripping gold and gems >from everything they come in contact with... > >Mike > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mike Harvey >gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) >http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:02:52 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: City of Gold (was: Buying OOP stuff) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The confusion comes from the fact that I don't try to make everything agree with what's canon. I simply cannot because there have been too many changes. Oh and I don't answer ALL the questions about the adventure, let the players worry about the details... haahaha. Angelo >From: Jacob Skytte >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: Re: [MYSTARA] City of Gold (was: Buying OOP stuff) >Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:54:20 +0200 > >Angelo Bertolli wrote: > > > > By the way, one thing that intrigued me that went by on this mailing >list is > > talk about Blackmoor. I'm currently creating an adventure about an >ancient > > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people >who > > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human >race, > > but were able to change shape. The talk about polymars and Blackmoor >was > > very interesting. What resources could I look at about this? > >The Blackmoor resources are the adventures DA1-DA4. DA1 describes Blackmoor >in detail, while the others are mostly adventures. There's also a >fan-created Blackmoor Gaz out there (probably at the official site). Later >products briefly describe what happened to Blackmoor during the following >centuries: They combined magic and extra-planetary technology and blew up >the world. > >But to be ancestors of the human race, you should probably go even further >back to a time before Blackmoor. You should be looking at the Hollow World >boxed set for more ideas on this. Besides I'm not sure what Polymars have >to do with Blackmoor? Did I miss some discussion? And why is their city >made of gold? > >Jacob Skytte >scythe@wanadoo.dk > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:34:10 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: City of Gold? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I'll provide a more specific response to this question, rather than just "magical walls." One of the features of this adventure is to allow players to get alot of money. However, how much of it can they carry? And what if they get trapped down there for a long time? A lot of good the money will do them. But I've been a player in a game similar to this and one of the most clever things that happened was a cursed item called the "bag of changing." Acts like a bag of holding, and so we started putting EVERYTHING in the bag only to find out later it was changed in to feathers, or something like that. I would, of course, always recommend that players never get a bag of holding. I've never understood why people should be able to carry almost an unlimited amount anyway. Fortunately for me, my players don't try to get EVERYTHING. They try to load up as much as possible but don't devise ways of obtaining more treasure than they can actually carry. Maybe this is because such actions have had bad outcomes in the past. Angelo >From: Mike Harvey >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] City of Gold? >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:02:37 +0000 > >Angelo wrote: > > I'm currently creating an adventure about an ancient > > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people >who > > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human >race, > > but were able to change shape. > >Okay, now I have to ask: > >Have you discovered some miraculous means to keep your players from >looting this city? If so please share it with us, because I'd love to >throw in some really opulent scenery without having to worry about >its "scrap value." PCs are like army ants, stripping gold and gems >from everything they come in contact with... > >Mike > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mike Harvey >gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) >http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:38:39 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Rob Subject: Re: City of Gold? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds very El Dorado to me. No chance of scavving it for next years MA in the Savage Coast Herve/Angelo? Cheers Rob > I'll provide a more specific response to this question, rather than just > "magical walls." One of the features of this adventure is to allow players > to get alot of money. However, how much of it can they carry? And what if > they get trapped down there for a long time? A lot of good the money will > do them. But I've been a player in a game similar to this and one of the > most clever things that happened was a cursed item called the "bag of > changing." Acts like a bag of holding, and so we started putting EVERYTHING > in the bag only to find out later it was changed in to feathers, or > something like that. > > I would, of course, always recommend that players never get a bag of > holding. I've never understood why people should be able to carry almost an > unlimited amount anyway. > > Fortunately for me, my players don't try to get EVERYTHING. They try to > load up as much as possible but don't devise ways of obtaining more treasure > than they can actually carry. Maybe this is because such actions have had > bad outcomes in the past. > > Angelo > > > >From: Mike Harvey > >Reply-To: Mystara > >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >Subject: [MYSTARA] City of Gold? > >Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:02:37 +0000 > > > >Angelo wrote: > > > I'm currently creating an adventure about an ancient > > > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people > >who > > > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human > >race, > > > but were able to change shape. > > > >Okay, now I have to ask: > > > >Have you discovered some miraculous means to keep your players from > >looting this city? If so please share it with us, because I'd love to > >throw in some really opulent scenery without having to worry about > >its "scrap value." PCs are like army ants, stripping gold and gems > >from everything they come in contact with... > > > >Mike > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Mike Harvey > >gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) > >http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > > > >******************************************************************** > >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:47:57 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Subject: Re: ierendi gaz On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:00:11 -0800, Ricardo Matheus wrote: >>Call up Crazy Egor's in Rochester, NY. > >Do they have e-mail? Maybe a URL? >Do they send stuff abroad? > I think so, though I haven't been persistent enough to page through all their stuff (their web site is a bit of a mess IMNSHO). Anyway, the URL is - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:47:19 -0600 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: ramhog Subject: Item for sale Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I have a copy of X4 Master of the Desert Nomads for sale, in excellent condition, for the low, low price of just $7.00 American, ppd! It's all packaged up and ready to ship- the first interested email I receive (at my address, please) gets dibs on it. Um... US residents only. This offer is good for one week, only. -The Viktor von Hendricks Adoption Society -- ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:29:22 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Rodney E. Barnes" Organization: The Christian Gamers Guild Subject: Re: City of Gold? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey! We are not "Army Ants". We are opportunists, more like Ravens than Army Ants. We like shinny things that we can carry (like Ravens), but don't necessarily strip everything we come in contact with and carry it off (we're not that strong). hehehehe... Rod one of mike's players. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Harvey" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 3:02 PM Subject: [MYSTARA] City of Gold? > Angelo wrote: > > I'm currently creating an adventure about an ancient > > underground city made entirely of gold. My ideas was that the people who > > built this city were somehow distantly ancestors of the surface human race, > > but were able to change shape. > > Okay, now I have to ask: > > Have you discovered some miraculous means to keep your players from > looting this city? If so please share it with us, because I'd love to > throw in some really opulent scenery without having to worry about > its "scrap value." PCs are like army ants, stripping gold and gems > from everything they come in contact with... > > Mike > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Mike Harvey > gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) > http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ > > ******************************************************************** > The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp > The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ > To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > > ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 02:00:56 EST Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "Shawn J." Subject: (OT) Kingdoms of Kalamar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A third party RPG company is releasing a Kingdoms of Kalamar core book in April for 3E D&D/D20 rules. The following posts were made to the Mystara3E group, and I thought they might also be of interest to MMB members. In a message dated 3/24/01 10:16:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, spymaster@planetfortress.com writes: > Kalamar, from everything that I have read seems to be very similar to > Mystara. Kingdoms are based directly on RW sources - and that's a bad > thing, especially because that's one big strength of Mystara. > This may not be that bad after all, as those familiar with Mystara may get nostalgic after using Kalamar, and we can use Kalamar as a point of reference in "proselytizing" gamers. With the wealth and depth of fan-created materials, all free, available for Mystara, Kalamar might even be treated as though a primer for Mystara. As Kalamar GMs go in search of supplemental info, direct them to the Mystara site, they get exposed to Mystara and WHAMMO (cheesiness intentional), another happy Mystaraphile is created. And statements along the lines of "Hey if you like Kalamar, then you will *really* like Mystara!" may be all that it takes to win over tons of new blood. At the very least, as Andrew states in the quote below, Kalamar material should be easy and useful to convert to Mystara. For these reasons we just might want to keep an eye on Kalamar, because you know, as well as I, that one can never have enough Mystara-lovin gamers! And, who knows, there's always that ever-so-slim chance that any success Kalamar enjoys will convince TSR (or someone else), that Mystara is every bit as marketable as other gameworlds (albeit with less name recognition, a smaller fan base, intermittent kookiness, rampant powergaming loopholes, downright silly char . . .wait a second, what am I saying? . . . boy, my head hurts! . . . hey, where'd the old guy in the pointy hat come from? . . .). --- Shawn J. Andrew Theisen also pointed this out, [3/25/01 8:37:20 PM, cthulhudrew@usa.net] > One other thing possibly worth noting- James "Mystaros" Mishler worked on > Kingdoms of Kalamar (one of its supplements, anyway) when it was under the > previous rules system, and noted that the supplement he designed could > easily be converted to Mystara (and he provided notes which should be on > Shawn's site somewhere). ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:59:24 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: Re: City of Gold? All this reminds me of module X9 (The Savage Coast), in which the description of the Forbidden City (now known as Risilvar) stated that it was built of stone coated with gold. The module even went so far (since the assumption was that the player would try to strip everything of value from the place) to calculate how long it would take an average-sized party to peel the gold coating off of the stones, and I think it even mentioned how much it would weigh! :-) I also remember the description of a vein of gold in X1 (Isle of Dread), which mentioned, if the PCs enslaved or otherwise coerced the natives into mining the gold for them, how much gold was there, and how long it would take to mine it (slave revolts notwithstanding). It seems TSR was encouraging the lust for bullion.... ;-P Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:06:48 -0500 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Geoff Gander Subject: OD&D Cantrips?? Hi all, Has anyone introduced cantrips to OD&D? If so, did you find that they were unbalancing? Worthwhile? Any tips? One of my players has developed a very nice backstory (he's a thief), in which he was tested in Alphatia for magical talent, was found to possess it, but somehow didn't "have the spark" that translated that raw talent into actual spellcasting. Sort of like a mental block. Needless to say, he left Alphatia as soon as he could. So, since the party is likely to head to Glantri (or parts nearby) soon, the player wants me to determine whether or not his character could possibly learn cantrips, which, as I understand them, are really "level 0" spells (since he can't learn spells). Now, cantrips might help him out as a thief, but I'm not sure whether they could possibly be warped into something that could make him a "super thief". So, all this to say, does anyone think this is unbalancing (in addition to the questions I posed above)? The player's a reasonable fellow, and he's leaving it totally to my discretion as to whether to allow this, but frankly, I thought I'd pick some brains here, first. Geoff -- Geoff Gander, BA 97 Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon Carnifex Loremaster au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:29:42 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: "G.P. Agosta" Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Geoff Gander wrote: > > So, since the party is likely to head to Glantri (or parts > nearby) soon, the player wants me to determine whether or not his > character could possibly learn cantrips, which, as I understand them, are > really "level 0" spells (since he can't learn spells). Now, cantrips might > help him out as a thief, but I'm not sure whether they could possibly be > warped into something that could make him a "super thief". > > So, all this to say, does anyone think this is unbalancing (in addition to > the questions I posed above)? It really depends what you allow him to do with cantrips. As an old Dragon Magazine article said, cantrips are a sort of "little wishes". If you let people have "powerful" cantrips (something like telekinetic cantrips, f.e.), you'll probably find them unbalancing. If you strongly limit the extent of cantrip power, it can be an interesting addition. IMC (AD&D), I allow cantrips as an NWP (free for wizards & bards, at low cost for swashbucklers and priests of Immortal patrons of magic, and at an higher cost for other characters). I also impose a maximum number of cantrip/day (4). Over this number, the PC receives a penalty to his ability check proportional to the number of uses. Note that since OD&D games often have a smaller variety of spells, cantrip can weight more here. BTW, how would your MU and Elf characters be treated? Would they receive cantrips for free (enacting a reality change) or have to pay for them (and then the thief PC should be forced to pay more skill slots for cantrip ability)? -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:55:11 +0100 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Phillip Jones Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Geoff Gander wrote: > > > > > So, since the party is likely to head to Glantri (or parts > > nearby) soon, the player wants me to determine whether or not his > > character could possibly learn cantrips, which, as I understand them, are > > really "level 0" spells (since he can't learn spells). Now, cantrips might > > help him out as a thief, but I'm not sure whether they could possibly be > > warped into something that could make him a "super thief". > > > > So, all this to say, does anyone think this is unbalancing (in addition to > > the questions I posed above)? > > It really depends what you allow him to do with cantrips. As an old > Dragon Magazine article said, cantrips are a sort of "little wishes". > If you let people have "powerful" cantrips (something like telekinetic > cantrips, f.e.), you'll probably find them unbalancing. If you strongly > limit the extent of cantrip power, it can be an interesting addition. > > IMC (AD&D), I allow cantrips as an NWP (free for wizards & bards, at low > cost for swashbucklers and priests of Immortal patrons of magic, and at > an higher cost for other characters). I also impose a maximum number of > cantrip/day (4). Over this number, the PC receives a penalty to his > ability check proportional to the number of uses. > > Note that since OD&D games often have a smaller variety of spells, > cantrip can weight more here. > > BTW, how would your MU and Elf characters be treated? Would they receive > cantrips for free (enacting a reality change) or have to pay for them > (and then the thief PC should be forced to pay more skill slots for > cantrip ability)? > -- > > > Giampaolo Agosta Hey thats a very nice idea! I like it! I think I'd modify it slightly to balance my OD&D campaign though. Say, allow a General Skill called Cantrip that would allow you to memorise 1 cantrip per level you have in the General Skill. This would keep the OD&D magic in balance whilst allowing well thought out characters (such as the theif in Geoffs campaign) a little magical ability if needed. Phil (a.k.a Alexander Korrigan: humble student of the Great School of Magic) "I'm not evil, just practical." ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:15:51 +0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Mike Harvey Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? In-Reply-To: <200103301506.KAA16618@freenet10.carleton.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:06:48 -0500 > Reply-to: Mystara > From: Geoff Gander > Subject: OD&D Cantrips?? > To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM > Hi all, > > Has anyone introduced cantrips to OD&D? If so, did you find that they were > unbalancing? Worthwhile? Any tips? Yes we are using cantrips. However I also give the spellcasters bonus spells for their prime requisite, based on the AD&D1 Wisdom chart, and I am allowing the party's wizard to use a sword and crossbow. So, game balance ceased to be an issue long ago! Anyway, here's how I'm doing it: wizards get unlimited cantrips, but the cantrips are trivial. I'm basing cantrips more or less on the "Color of Magic" from an old issue of Dragon -- cantrips can do pretty much what the character could do normally, only he uses magic instead. Things like lightning fires, flavoring food, and so forth. Essentially they are a very trivial wish, but they can never duplicate an existing spell effect, and generally can never affect any numbers (like AC, skill rolls, or the like). Mostly they are not useful for combat, but the players like them because they make the wizard seem more magical. Our wizard is a practical joker, and like to use cantrips to turn people's noses blue, set their shoes on fire, things like that. All cantrips are subject to GM approval at the time of casting; I rule on the fly based on power level and amusement value. In the past we've used 3e style cantrips, which are a little more powerful, but the spellcaster has a limited number of slots. 3e also allows cantrips to priests, but I do not do this in OD&D since the gods shouldn't dance on strings like marionnettes at the priests whim. Priests IMO should be more sober and deliberate in their magic. OTOH priests can pray any time they want and ask for favors, and I treat this as a cantrip of sorts, less predictable but possibly very powerful. For a thief I think cantrips might work well, as long as they fit the story -- I wouldn't want EVERY thief to learn cantrips. They could be handy for things like disguises. Thieves are not terribly powerful in OD&D so I wouldn't worry too much about balance. If you want to do 3e-style cantrips, may I suggest: 4 cantrips per day, plus OD&D INT modifier. This gives a range of 1-7 cantrips, which must be studied just like spells. 3e cantrip list: Resistance (+1 to saves) Ray of Frost (1d3 cold damage) Detect Poison Daze (victim loses next action) Flare (dazzles one creature, -1 to attack) Light Dancing Lights Ghost Sound Disrupt Undead (1d6 damage to one undead) Mage Hand (5 pounds max( Mending Open/Close Arcane Mark (personal rune) Detect Magic Prestidigitation Read Magic Mike ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Harvey gm@dsl-only.net (formerly bing@iccom.com) http://members.dsl-only.net/~bing/ ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:06:20 +0200 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Agathokles Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Phillip Jones wrote: > > Hey thats a very nice idea! I like it! Well, it is not entirely original. I took it from an article on Dragon Magazine (it was among the downloadable articles back in the times before the Archive CDs), and I tinkered with the numbers here and there... > I think I'd modify it slightly to > balance my OD&D campaign though. Say, allow a General Skill called Cantrip > that would allow you to memorise 1 cantrip per level you have in the General > Skill. This would keep the OD&D magic in balance whilst allowing well > thought out characters (such as the theif in Geoffs campaign) a little > magical ability if needed. Yes, that would be a good solution, too. While we are on this topic, a good advice is, IMHO, to check in advance the sources you want to use... since cantrip were never completely formalized, most info is in non-canon sources or articles from the Magazines, and the power level is highly variant. Just have a look at the "cantrips" in the Great Net Spellbook to see what I mean. An interesting (AD&D) adventure featuring cantrips appeared in the downloads from Dungeon Adventures, namely "Wedding Day" by Paul Culotta. It featured a low-level wizard/thief villain who could keep in check the PCs with the help of some cantrips... it worked great with my players, as a divertissement between B7 and B10. -- Giampaolo Agosta agathokles@libero.it agosta@fusberta.elet.polimi.it http://digilander.iol.it/agathokles/index.htm ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:52:29 -0800 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: The Stalker Subject: Wedding day adventure (was: OD&D Cantrips??) On Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:06:20 +0200, Agathokles wrote: (snip) > >An interesting (AD&D) adventure featuring cantrips appeared in the >downloads from Dungeon Adventures, namely "Wedding Day" by Paul Culotta. >It featured a low-level wizard/thief villain who could keep in check the >PCs with the help of some cantrips... it worked great with my players, >as a divertissement between B7 and B10. >-- > Funny you should mention that since I actually ran that adventure when our campaign moved to the wedding between Adriana Karameikos and Devon Hyraksos in AC 1,006 during WOTI. Boy, was that ever embarrassing... and a lot of fun! ;) - The Stalker ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:03:14 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed OD&D cantrips are introduced in an article in Dragon #200 >From: Geoff Gander >Reply-To: Mystara >To: MYSTARA-L@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >Subject: [MYSTARA] OD&D Cantrips?? >Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:06:48 -0500 > >Hi all, > >Has anyone introduced cantrips to OD&D? If so, did you find that they were >unbalancing? Worthwhile? Any tips? > >One of my players has developed a very nice backstory (he's a thief), in >which he was tested in Alphatia for magical talent, was found to possess >it, but somehow didn't "have the spark" that translated that raw talent >into actual spellcasting. Sort of like a mental block. Needless to say, >he left Alphatia as soon as he could. > >So, since the party is likely to head to Glantri (or parts >nearby) soon, the player wants me to determine whether or not his >character could possibly learn cantrips, which, as I understand them, are >really "level 0" spells (since he can't learn spells). Now, cantrips might >help him out as a thief, but I'm not sure whether they could possibly be >warped into something that could make him a "super thief". > >So, all this to say, does anyone think this is unbalancing (in addition to >the questions I posed above)? The player's a reasonable fellow, and he's >leaving it totally to my discretion as to whether to allow this, but >frankly, I thought I'd pick some brains here, first. > >Geoff > > > >-- >Geoff Gander, BA 97 >Cartographer/Game Designer/Government Peon >Carnifex Loremaster >au998@freenet.carleton.ca : www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/2091 > >******************************************************************** >The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp >The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ >To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM >with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:05:56 -0000 Reply-To: Mystara Sender: Mystara From: Angelo Bertolli Subject: Re: OD&D Cantrips?? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dragon #200 says that cantrips should be done as just an extraordinary way of doing ordinary things. If the caster could do it anyway, you should let him do it with a spell. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ******************************************************************** The Other Worlds Homepage: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/OtherWorlds.asp The Mystara Homepage: http://www.dnd.starflung.com/ To unsubscribe, send email to LISTSERV@ORACLE.WIZARDS.COM with UNSUB MYSTARA-L in the body of the message.